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0:00:08 Intro
0:00:55 Switch 2 Launch Imminent
0:03:27 Trademark Banter
0:04:53 Akira Remaster
0:08:14 Cinema Revival?
0:13:12 Darth Vader is Disturbed by Your Lack of V-Bucks
0:19:28 AI Talk
0:28:12 S*** Randy Pitchford Says
0:33:00 Doom Dark Ages Best Launch Ever for id
0:38:25 Sony Cuts EU Pricing on PS5
0:39:25 Impressions: Doom the Dark Ages
0:46:37 Diversion on the Naming of Ages
0:55:27 Back to Doom
0:59:12 Clair Obscure: Expedition 33
1:06:53 Feature: Talking 'bout my Generation
1:20:00 Live Music - Kneecap
Transcript:
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Tom: I'm your host, a real human being, Tom Towers, and I'm joined by a semi-human being, Phil Fogg.
Phil: We will get to the point where you can just...
Phil: You'll be able to take all the hours of my recordings and turn me into an AI bot, and it's probably going to be better than what we're currently doing, that's for sure.
Phil: But hey, congratulations on episode
Tom: It's a milestone, the important, all-important nd of anything.
Tom: We all know how important that is.
Phil: Before we get into the news, I just saw on the feed that Switch s have been seen in retail stores in the US.
Phil: So it's getting close, it's less than two weeks away now.
Tom: Have they been bought by anyone or just they're in storage?
Phil: No, you've just got Best Buy employees sending out social media posts of, you know, hey, the boxes are here, you know, that sort of thing, which you imagine I'd have to be doing at this point.
Tom: If you were an employee theoretically and you pre-ordered one of them, could you somehow take it home early or not?
Phil: I think that if you're a good enough employee and your manager liked you, you could probably do it.
Phil: But I don't know that if I was a manager, I'd let anyone do it because if you tried, like, you know, how much do you trust this employee to not post it on?
Tom: If you were a manager yourself, would you do it?
Phil: Yeah, absolutely.
Phil: And I'd keep it on the down low.
Phil: I wouldn't keep, I would not connect it to the Internet at all.
Phil: I wouldn't be taking post pictures of it and posting it on social networks or anything like that.
Phil: But yeah, for sure, I'd take it home and do it.
Phil: I mean, yes.
Tom: So if you didn't connect it to the Internet, you wouldn't be able to use it.
Phil: Probably.
Phil: But because it does need a day one switch, a day one update, but I'm not sure that it actually needs it to operate or if that's just like a features thing.
Phil: But yeah, no, for sure, I'd be having friends around, that's for sure, and say, hey, check it out.
Phil: Yeah, that's a benefit of being the manager.
Tom: Before we move on from the Switch that just reminded me of the absurd update to the original Switch's firmware where they've introduced the UI features for their new game card system, which required me to change what was the default console to be able to play a game.
Phil: Really?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: Wow.
Phil: Now, I haven't connected our Switch to the internet recently because my daughter has quit Minecraft.
Phil: And that's her words.
Phil: She says she's quit it.
Phil: It was too stressful.
Phil: But we're going to have a Minecraft feature.
Phil: We should probably say what we're going to get into the show this week.
Phil: We've got some news.
Phil: We're going to talk about what we've been playing, Doom the Dark Ages, Clair Obscure, Minecraft.
Phil: Minecraft is a feature because we hadn't been exposed to it in any great depth and now we've gone and played it just like we did with Roblox.
Phil: So we'll have our impressions.
Tom: We should also play a Roblox version of Minecraft, as I'm sure there are plenty.
Phil: I'm sure there are plenty.
Phil: And but before we get into that, you know, I've been listening to a lot of a lot of my regular podcasts is one of them.
Phil: They've introduced a segment that they call banter at the start of the podcast.
Phil: Right.
Phil: And they go.
Tom: And they can't they can't call it trademark banter though, because that's already trademarked.
Phil: And they go on about how they're the only ones that do it and how they invented it.
Tom: And how old is this podcast?
Phil: This particular podcast is about a year and a half old.
Tom: Okay.
Phil: So yeah, it doesn't really quite check out.
Phil: But they they say they've invented banter and.
Tom: So they didn't just invent a banter segment, they invented banter itself.
Phil: Yes.
Tom: Okay.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: So and this is basically where the two hosts talk at the start of a podcast.
Phil: So people get the sense that we're friends and that we've got a certain, you know, connectedness and all the rest of it.
Tom: Which is obviously quite difficult.
Phil: It is difficult.
Phil: We did it.
Phil: Now, we actually did invent banter.
Phil: I don't know when trademark banter first appeared, but it would have been a single digits of into the show.
Phil: We also invented the Yuck is a Killzone Minute.
Tom: And pretending to be friends for a podcast as well.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: We invented a lot of things like that.
Phil: So but so I just thought maybe before we go into the news, if you have any trademark banter.
Tom: I do.
Tom: And I think you were, I think we should begin with a seminal anime film that was recently given a cinematic re-release for K.
Phil: Okay.
Tom: Which is Akira.
Tom: And I think Akira in the anime Pantheon over recent years, probably since the rise and popularity of Studio Ghibli has sort of gone down in terms of its reputation.
Tom: Not many people go to Akira anymore when they think of greatest animated films or greatest films ever anymore.
Tom: At least not as much as they did in the past.
Phil: No, I wouldn't think so.
Phil: I had not heard that Akira had received a remake.
Phil: Has it been well received?
Tom: I think it's, well, there were certainly a lot of people at the cinema.
Tom: So at least people are going and seeing it.
Tom: And it's the K release, which results in something that looks like probably, I would say, a great millimeter print or a mediocre to millimeter print, but with colors that are a little bit more muted, I would say, than film.
Tom: So it's well worth seeing.
Tom: And the thing about Akira is one of the reasons, I think a lot of people look down on it these days is the way it treats the story and the characters.
Tom: Everything is not well detailed in terms of the plotting or character development.
Tom: But I think that adds to the film.
Tom: It allows it to be just an incredible build up of escalating action scene after action scene and the themes of the manga are in the anime.
Tom: They're just treated in a slightly more abstract manner, which I think is actually to its benefit.
Tom: It manages to convey, I think, more thematically of what the book was about than it would if it had been trying to focus on character beats instead.
Tom: You would have been able to, I think, implement less of the big themes in the book, if that was a bigger focus.
Phil: So this movie originally came out in
Phil: Is this a remaster?
Tom: Yes, the K remaster.
Phil: Sorry, I thought it was like a remake, like a re-release type.
Tom: No.
Tom: No.
Phil: It must look fantastic.
Tom: It looks incredible.
Tom: And it's a film that you should see in the cinema.
Tom: The other thing that is incredible about it, which again is one of the reasons having less of a focus on the story and the characters work so well, is the sound design and music is incredible.
Tom: The film is almost like one long musical montage.
Tom: And it's a fascinating mix of orchestral and synths and vocals in the background of most of the songs as well.
Tom: It's an amazing experience in the cinema.
Tom: We've got to talk about cinemas.
Tom: You were an avid cinema goer.
Tom: I won't say in your youth, but long enough ago that it should have been your youth if you were not so long in the tooth.
Phil: Yeah, I was an avid cinema goer in my twenties.
Phil: I think I saw every, I got to think of the years here.
Phil: I think I saw almost every cinematic release, probably from through
Tom: I don't think you can be more avid than seeing every cinematic release for five years.
Phil: Yeah, in the theater.
Phil: That was all in the theater.
Phil: If a new movie came out, I went and saw it because I had, as we've discussed before, I think there was something like nine movies within nine movie cinemas within probably, I'm going to say, eight minutes drive from where I lived in Southern California, and I had nothing to do and movies cost three bucks fifty to go and see if you went in the morning.
Phil: So yeah.
Tom: I think it's a very impressive record.
Tom: So I was just going to say that cinemas in recent times have obviously gone down.
Tom: Very few people go to cinemas anymore or so I thought, because apparently cinemas that show classic films, or are remastered films like this as well are packed, even if they're a multi-cinema venue.
Tom: So it's interesting.
Tom: And I think it's better to go to the cinema to see a great film than to see whatever the new film is.
Tom: Which is not to say that the new film might not be a great film, but it's suddenly a lot less likely.
Phil: If I could posit as to why that would be, and if there was a cinema close to me that played this sort of stuff, that would be fantastic, but there isn't.
Phil: But I think the reason why is because right now, like I'm watching the Bob Dylan bio flick on streaming, and I'm watching Oppenheimer at the same time on streaming.
Tom: Simultaneously?
Phil: Yeah, yeah, not at the same, not split screen.
Phil: I probably would if I could, but no, not split screen.
Tom: That might be the only way I'd watch them.
Phil: But like last night, I watched like, you know, minutes of the Dylan movie, and I'm enjoying it.
Phil: It's good enough.
Phil: It's not a very good film.
Phil: And then I go watch the Oppenheimer film, and it's slightly better, but, you know, it's nothing fantastic, and I'll watch it for minutes, and then I'll go watch Welcome to Wrexham for minutes, you know, and I think that by going to the cinema, you've got a singular thing that you're sitting there and watching.
Phil: You're not looking down at your phone, if you're following right etiquette.
Phil: You're not switching off to do something else.
Phil: You're not leaving halfway through, and obviously a movie is made to be digested in one sitting, and if you're watching it in minute chunks, it's not going to have the same impact.
Phil: You also have the sound system.
Phil: Yes, you can have great sound systems at home, but there's nothing like being in a theater and having that.
Tom: You can't have cinema acoustics at home unless you've got a mansion.
Phil: Exactly, that's right.
Phil: So, yeah, there's a lot of reasons to go to the movies, but content is not one of them, and as you said, if you've got a cinema around that's showing remasters or older movies that are classics, it's obviously going to be popular.
Tom: It's interesting though because it's only the last, I would say, probably since COVID, that it appears to have picked up because I remember going to shows of classic films in the past pre-COVID, and unless it was at the Aster and they were showing a film print, there was usually only a similar number of people that you would get at any sort of film or maybe a little bit more, but not a huge amount.
Tom: So it's something that appears to be a post-COVID phenomenon.
Phil: I think it's a post-COVID phenomenon, and I think also it's a dearth of quality, good new material in the cinemas, and I deal with the cinemas here in Australia.
Phil: I talk to them, and I'm quite connected with them, and they're having trouble, like the content that's coming out of Hollywood is not helping them at all.
Phil: And now that Marvel has crumbled, and Star Wars has crumbled, that was basically their bread and butter for the last decade, and now they're struggling.
Phil: But hey, this is a video and podcast, so unless you've got anything else on the movie front.
Tom: Not on the movie front, no.
Phil: Then let's switch over to the news.
Phil: We've got three stories up there.
Phil: Tom, you pick the one that is most interesting to you, and I'll blab on about it.
Tom: I think let's go with Darth Vader.
Phil: Yeah, this is a good one.
Phil: Yeah, well, SAG-AFTRA, the voice acting union.
Tom: I thought it was a Scandinavian, you were just mentioning SAG-AFTRA.
Phil: SAG-AFTRA has filed an unfair labor practice against EPIC over Fortnite's use of an AI voice for Darth Vader.
Phil: So immediately, if you're reading that headline, you go, well, this isn't right.
Phil: They're using an AI voice for Darth Vader.
Phil: Why?
Phil: You know, this is obviously a bad thing.
Phil: And the Union has basically struck a deal with the studios.
Phil: It said, hey, when we're going to use AI-generated voices, we're going to negotiate with you guys and talk to you.
Phil: So basically, it's not that simple.
Phil: So first of all, James Earl Jones' foundation or family owns the rights to James Earl Jones' voice.
Phil: And he passed away last year, of course, at age
Tom: But his voice lives on.
Phil: His voice lives on.
Phil: He's getting paid.
Phil: His family is getting paid for it.
Phil: And basically, they've put James Earl Jones through an AI mill for him to recreate the voices.
Phil: Now, SAG-AFRA's position is that, well, you could have just hired a James Earl Jones sound-alike, like what they've done in some of the animated series or what they've done in other games.
Phil: And then one of our union members would be getting paid, and that's what we want, right?
Phil: But instead, you've just used his voice.
Phil: But there, the thing about it is, though, this isn't just pre-recorded lines that they're using AI in.
Phil: You can actually interact with Darth Vader and ask him questions using voice chat in Fortnite, and he will respond to what you're asking him.
Phil: So this is generative AI on the fly.
Tom: So this is ChatGPT, Darth Vader.
Phil: Yes, but voiced.
Tom: Doesn't ChatGPT have a narration option?
Phil: I don't know.
Phil: I don't know.
Phil: I'm sure it does.
Phil: But the issue is, of course, obviously, because the Internet, it took about four seconds for people to make James L.
Phil: Jones scream the N word over and over and over again, say all sorts of inappropriate things.
Phil: And this was quashed, but not before everyone has recordings of Darth Vader being asked all sorts of questions.
Phil: And they can get around it by telling him to pronounce certain words.
Phil: But anyway, people are mucking around with it.
Phil: They are hilarious.
Phil: And I don't support hurtful speech.
Tom: But you do support comical speech.
Phil: I do support comical speech.
Phil: But anyway, so that's what's happened.
Phil: But that's separate to the whole thing.
Phil: And basically, Epic's argument is, well, this is generative content.
Phil: So what are we supposed to do?
Phil: Like hire Darth Vader, James L.
Phil: Jones impersonators, and have them sitting in voice chat, so that they can respond.
Tom: I like that idea, actually.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: It would be fantastic.
Phil: A whole customer service booth in India, full of people talking like James L.
Tom: I think it's an amazing idea, actually.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: But yeah.
Phil: So where do you land on this?
Phil: I mean, right, wrong, who?
Phil: I mean, besides the comical aspects of it, it is apparently very good and humorous.
Phil: And now basically, they've got James L.
Phil: Jones.
Phil: If he's asked anything that's slightly off kilter, he'll say, I do not see how this will benefit the Empire or whatever.
Phil: So yeah, it's a fun story.
Phil: But also, I just thought, I mean, who do you...
Phil: If you had to rule one way or the other, SAG-AFRA or EPIC, where would you come down on it?
Tom: I've got an alternative solution, which is force James Earl Jones' family into the Union.
Phil: How does that help?
Tom: Then they're Union members.
Tom: Then they're Union members who are getting the royalties.
Phil: Yeah, I guess.
Tom: Was the issue here not that we're not getting a SAG-AFRA employed Union member being paid for this role?
Phil: If you came down to the nuts and bolts of it, it's basically, we ain't getting paid, you know?
Tom: So if they're in the Union, they're paying their Union membership, it solves the problem.
Phil: Yeah, but what about this?
Phil: What about this SAG-AFRA?
Phil: Go away.
Phil: Our dad is dead, right?
Phil: We're not paying any more dues into SAG-AFRA.
Phil: It's none of your goddamn business.
Tom: But they're profiting from the estate.
Tom: I think James Earl Jones' copyright for his voice should have ended with his death if it should have existed in the first place.
Tom: So I think the best solution to this whole scenario is force his family into the Union if they don't join, send someone over with a tire iron to negotiate.
Tom: That's my solution.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: That seems fair to me.
Phil: But you know, also, just as you cannot slander a person who's dead because they're dead, did you know that, by the way?
Tom: It depends on who they are.
Phil: No, I'm just telling you, like, it's a fact of law.
Tom: Well, Elon Musk is alive.
Phil: He's still alive and just keep his name out of your mouth.
Phil: If you want to besmirch anyone, it's got to be James Earl Jones, Michael Jackson, the Queen, right?
Phil: But not Elon Musk.
Phil: And that's only because we don't want to, we're not slandering anyone on this podcast.
Phil: That's my only gut rule.
Tom: I've only ever stated facts about Elon Musk on the show.
Tom: Before we move on from AI though, you, I believe, in fact, did make an AI version of the podcast.
Phil: No, I don't think I did.
Tom: I think you did.
Phil: Well, actually, yeah, I did, actually.
Tom: And I did not receive any royalties from it.
Phil: No.
Tom: So you may also be receiving a visit from someone.
Phil: Well, when I start making money off it, I tell you what, I'll give you...
Tom: I demand royalties whether you make money or not.
Phil: % of the proceeds will go to Tom Towers Foundation.
Tom: But I bring that up because...
Phil: Well, hang on, just to explain to listeners.
Phil: So I've been in the process of transcribing all of our shows.
Phil: So about half of our shows have been transcribed now, so that if you search at the gameunder.net website, you'll find everything that you need to find about all the random stuff that we talk about.
Phil: And then I uploaded that to something called LM Notebook or Notebook LM, which is a Google product.
Phil: And it provided these perfect summaries of what we had said in text.
Phil: But you can also...
Tom: The summaries, I think the summaries were fascinating because I've seen AI summaries of such things before and they are usually pretty accurate.
Tom: But I've not seen them include subjective praise before.
Tom: The AI was going into detail about how hilarious we were, among other things.
Phil: Well, it was talking about our bio...
Phil: We talked about Ayn Rand and Bioshock.
Phil: As we usually do, we've just spliced, you know, things together.
Tom: It is an Ayn Rand podcast, after all.
Phil: Yeah, and I thought the summary was like, oh, wow, okay, yeah, that's like exactly what we were talking about.
Phil: And it totally got it, which is, of course, the whole point of AI interpretation of transcripts.
Phil: It does a really good job of it.
Phil: AI does lousy at a lot of things, like drawing people with the right number of fingers, but it, you know, it's really good at some other things.
Phil: So this open notebook, LM, whatever it's called, can also provide a podcast version of the notes, of the summary.
Phil: And so what did you think about that audio file?
Tom: The audio file I bring up because I'm fascinated by creative people's fear of AI, taking their creative work from them.
Tom: And I just do not comprehend what they are talking about.
Tom: And this is an example of that.
Tom: I think some of the subject matter bore some relationship to a Game Under Podcast episode.
Tom: But that was basically the full extent of any similarity there was.
Tom: It sounded a lot, however, a lot like mainstream podcasts, like the sort of podcasts that talk about serial killers, or crimes, or news-based shows, and other shows based on traditional journalism.
Tom: It sounded a lot like them, but it sounded nothing like a Game Under Podcast episode.
Tom: And I find the same thing to be generally true in terms of AI writing as well.
Tom: One thing I saw was that people in a study by, I've forgotten which university it was, could not tell the difference between AI-generated poetry and the poet was based on.
Tom: And I did the same tests, and the conclusion one can draw from that is that the people doing the test were completely illiterate, because the two bore essentially no similarity to each other whatsoever.
Phil: I completely agree because I've done the same thing.
Phil: And I can spot AI-text from a mile away.
Phil: And the show that we listened to that was basically repeating or summarizing our show sounded a lot like national public radio in the United States, or Radio National here in Australia.
Phil: It's just milk toast, boring, no intellect, no real emotion.
Phil: It was bland and milk toast.
Phil: And I think if you have a unique voice as an artist, you shouldn't be afraid of it.
Phil: I did some AI music, right?
Phil: So we've got a feature coming up in this episode called Talking About My Generation, but I didn't want to get a strike for using the song by, is that the Who?
Tom: Is it the Who?
Tom: I don't think it's the Who.
Phil: No, another band is called The Something.
Phil: And...
Tom: The Beatles?
Phil: No.
Phil: I went into, it's not The U
Phil: I went into one of these AI music generators and...
Tom: That is the Who, apparently.
Phil: It is the Who.
Phil: I need an eight second intro in the theme of talking about my generation by the Who, and it needs to use the words talking about my generation.
Phil: And it couldn't do it.
Phil: You know, it came back with a song, right?
Phil: Like, all right, well, this is kind of fun.
Phil: So then I said, well, I saw it was okay, but it wasn't doing what I needed to do.
Phil: So I said, all right, well, let's just write a song about my daughter.
Phil: Here's my daughter's name.
Phil: Here's her age.
Phil: Here's what her interests are.
Phil: And it came up with, you know, a fairly acceptable commercial song, but I wouldn't call it any, it wasn't a banger.
Phil: It wasn't like an earworm, you know.
Phil: So I think in terms of generating artistic content, AI is no good, but for summarizing content that already exists, it does a pretty good job.
Tom: Also for performing tasks as well.
Tom: The last thing before we move on from AI that I highly recommend people look up is AI doing things like solving the trolley problem.
Tom: And once again, on the topic of literacy, which I think is a big reason that AI, or lack thereof, lack of literacy rather, is one of the big reasons AI is seen to be so successful, is if you watch AI attempting to do things like solve a trolley problem.
Phil: Whoa, whoa, whoa, mate, mate, mate, trolley problem.
Tom: So the trolley problem is a classic philosophical question where a tram, we should call it a tram problem because we are in Australia, is going along a set of tracks and the tracks are about to fork or one set of tracks, there might be a person tied to the tracks.
Tom: On the other set of tracks, there might be two people tied to the tracks, and it's going to run over the two people.
Tom: You can pull a lever to divert the train onto the tram tracks, where the tram will only run over one person instead of two, should you pull the lever.
Tom: That's the tram problem essentially.
Phil: Okay.
Tom: So the AI will usually say, come up with an answer such as, I'll divert it to the tracks with one person because two lives are more valuable than one, as hard as it is for us to do this, so I'll pull the lever.
Tom: But it turns out that if you pull the lever, it runs over two people instead of one.
Tom: So it has, it's written something where it's re-describing the text that it has been given but not being able to actually understand anything.
Tom: The solution it's chosen is not in line with the action it wants to achieve.
Tom: And this is a very common problem in AI.
Tom: I think it's one of the terms for it is AI hallucination.
Tom: I can only assume that with how common this issue is, this has simply been missed because people are as illiterate as AI.
Tom: So they do not notice the error that AI is committing.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Yeah, I think you're right on that one.
Phil: Well, back to the video game news.
Phil: You want to pick a story?
Tom: I think I'll go with Randy Pitchford.
Phil: Right.
Phil: So Randy Pitchford, he's the basically founder, owner, CEO of Gearbox.
Phil: He's no longer the owner of it.
Phil: They're owned by someone else now.
Phil: Take Two, I think, eventually bought them.
Phil: And he was a fan tweeted to him.
Phil: The headline is $for Borderlands to cost leave.
Phil: This is from eurogamer.com, which is kind of a poor headline.
Phil: Because Borderlands has not been announced at $at all.
Phil: A fan merely tweeted at Randy, Randy, Borderlands better not be $
Phil: Don't take the risk.
Phil: A lot of gamers aren't going to pay $and feed this notion of constant increase of the price tag.
Phil: You're the CEO.
Phil: You have some say with the price when it comes to your publisher.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Now, if someone had tweeted you as the host of The Game Under Podcast, with that sort of tone, would you have responded?
Tom: I don't think we have a Twitter.
Phil: No, but I mean, would you have responded?
Tom: I think I would have.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: We still do have a Twitter, but we're not active on it.
Phil: So no, you wouldn't bother, because it's obviously someone who's trolling you, trying to get a response.
Tom: That's what you're meant to respond to on Twitter, though.
Tom: I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of Twitter.
Phil: Because he's got at least tens of millions of dollars and a quote, real life, I'm assuming, you wouldn't respond to it.
Phil: You just go, okay, there's a troll.
Phil: Keep going.
Phil: Or you wouldn't even be engaged with your social media, because you'd be having, that's something your secretary does for you, your social media person.
Phil: The social media person at Take Two takes care of all the individual CEOs' social media.
Phil: Right?
Phil: That's what I do.
Phil: I'm not dealing with this.
Phil: I've got enough to do.
Phil: So, Randy Pitchford, however, had a different approach and he actually respond.
Phil: He said, A, not my call.
Phil: Then he said, B, if you're a real fan, you'll find a way to make it happen.
Phil: My local game store had Star Flight for Sega Genesis for $in when I was just out of high school working minimum wage at an ice cream parlor in Pismo Beach, and I found a way to make it happen.
Tom: Now, this is how we know it wasn't his PR person that tweeted this.
Phil: That's right.
Phil: It is actually Randy Pitchford.
Tom: So what was minimum wage in ?
Phil:
Phil: So Pismo Beach is in California.
Phil: I was in California in
Phil: I was earning minimum wage in
Phil: It was $an hour.
Tom: So you would need to work hours.
Tom: Sorry, hours.
Tom: No, yeah, hours.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: But that's not the point.
Phil: I mean, the point, I mean, would you tell me what the point of this is?
Tom: I think he's telling buyers out there to work hours so that they can afford Borderlands
Phil: I think so.
Phil: I think this is a let them meet Borderlands type comment.
Phil: It's just, you know, it's the only reason I brought this up as a news story because it's so unnecessary.
Phil: Like as a news story, this is so unnecessary.
Phil: He should never have responded.
Phil: There's no reason for him to respond to something like this.
Tom: I think the fact we're talking about it is a reason to respond.
Phil: Well, okay.
Phil: Now, do you think $for Borderlands is too expensive?
Tom: I think it is.
Phil: Borderlands is still like $USD on Steam, just so you know.
Phil: You know, would I pay $for the original Borderlands or Borderlands ?
Tom: But why should it cost more than Borderlands ?
Phil: Inflation.
Tom: Not everything needs to cost more over time, though.
Phil: Yeah, well, cost of living increases come every year.
Phil: Like here in Australia, we have a...
Phil: every year, everyone's wage goes up like % to take into consideration cost of living increases, for example.
Tom: But that does not mean by default something needs to cost more.
Tom: Some things go down in price over time.
Tom: If we were looking at this from an economic perspective of cost of production and supply and demand and all of these things that amount to too many things to make too much of a determination on, the fact that we're paying $US for a digital copy of a game doesn't make any sense in the first place.
Phil: No.
Phil: And this, especially with digital distribution, and this ties into the third and final story for this week, Doom Dark Ages' best launch in id history.
Phil: Credit to this one goes to VGCharts.
Phil: Publisher Bethesda Software and developer id Software has announced that Doom the Dark Ages has surpassed million and is its best and biggest launch in the history of id software.
Phil: They've said it basically has sold, you know, well million copies in like days.
Phil: It launched on PlayStation Xbox, PC and Game Pass.
Phil: So, you look at that and you go, you look at the history of id, right?
Phil: And you look at the games that have come before, you know, this game, which is at least Dooms, Doom games.
Phil: And this one has had the best launch in history, even though it's receiving good, but, you know, not uniformly good praise.
Phil: And we'll get into your impressions after this news story.
Phil: So, as troubled as the game industry appears with hardware and game pricing increasing and massive layoffs, you know, I think this indicates that, you know, the interest in gaming is in a better state than it's ever been before, just because of the massive people who are actually playing games.
Tom: I think the wording of the achievement is interesting.
Tom: Three million players as opposed to three million sales.
Tom: Perhaps it is the most successful solely because so many more people have game pass than when the second in the rebooted Doom series released.
Phil: Yeah, so best launch, yes, but best sales overall, we'll see.
Phil: Because also too, if you look at the mega hits of Yore, when they were released, this was the Dark Ages of distribution.
Phil: Doom was on floppy disk that was mailed to you.
Phil: They had an phone number, a toll-free number you could call and buy it, or you would get the demoed floppy.
Phil: You'd pay $to get the demo floppy, you'd pay the first three levels, and then you'd have to pay more to download it or have it sent to you, because it was shareware.
Phil: That was a great time.
Phil: But today, obviously, when a game launches, they can launch globally and through digital distribution.
Phil: Everyone can have the game immediately, preloaded on their system or their computer.
Phil: So I don't think this is so much an indication of how popular Doom Dark Ages is, but probably just more of the level of sophistication that game distribution has gotten to.
Phil: And you were talking about the cost.
Phil: Like, games have never cost less to distribute.
Phil: We've gone from cartridges, which were very expensive, you know, in the Nand before Euro, because you had to pay for RAM.
Phil: You had to pay for memory.
Phil: Or ROM, actually.
Phil: They were ROMs, right?
Phil: Read-only memory.
Phil: You had to pay for ROM memory, which actually cost something.
Phil: So if your game was bigger, if it had better graphics, it cost more.
Phil: Now, then it went to CD.
Phil: And so the cost went way down, because we didn't have to have ROM anymore.
Phil: You could just burn all the information to a CD or a DVD.
Phil: Now today, yes, we've gone back to the size of the program actually mattering.
Phil: So with digital distribution, it probably incrementally cost more to distribute a big game than a little game.
Phil: But still, it's way less than paying for ROM, paying for a CD, paying a company to make it, paying a printer to print the manuals, putting it into a plastic case made of petroleum, putting it into a ship that then takes it to another country, that puts it into a truck, that then drives it across that country, that then puts it into a retailer, who wants to make % on top of it all.
Phil: Obviously, distribution is way less than it's ever been.
Phil: So, you know, you look at, okay, charging bucks for a game, where does that come from?
Phil: You would say, well, if you look at the cost of production, you basically got what you paid the programmers to make the game, what you paid the artists to make the game, what you paid the advertising people to advertise the game, what you paid the administrators and the executives to manage all of these peoples and processes and make these important decisions.
Phil: Those are your costs.
Phil: Distribution is the least of the issue, but it can't possibly be dollars a game.
Tom: I don't think so.
Phil: No way, no way.
Tom: But the good news is, you can work hard to make that money if you want.
Phil: You can work hard.
Phil: You can get a job as an ice cream boy at Pismo Beach, and if you want it, you can make it happen according, make it to Randy Pitchford.
Phil: Yeah, that's great.
Phil: Hopefully, he's generous with giving out some codes.
Phil: Maybe I should hit him up on Twitter since he's so responsive.
Phil: Okay, so we'll move into, oh, just one other thing that just hit the wire.
Phil: In Europe, Sony is slashing the prices of PlayStation and PlayStation Pro.
Phil: PlayStation standard just dropped by pounds.
Phil: So it's about bucks, Australian or US.
Phil: And the Pro is dropped by pounds, which is bucks in Australia and the US.
Phil: So-
Tom: Did you say the PSor PS?
Phil: PSsorry.
Phil: I have a bad habit of saying that.
Phil: So the PlayStation Pro is now pounds less in Europe, and the standard is pounds less ahead of days before the Switch launch.
Tom: So the Switch price is even worse than it already was.
Phil: Oh, for sure.
Phil: Yeah, for sure.
Phil: I mean, this is, you know, a pretty good value.
Phil: But even so, PlayStation Pro console in the UK cost pounds instead of pounds.
Phil: That's still a lot of money.
Phil: Okay, well, we've been talking about Doom the Dark Ages.
Phil: You've been playing it.
Phil: Have you-
Phil: How far have you gotten into it?
Phil: Have you beaten a game?
Tom: I've certainly not beaten the game.
Tom: I've beaten the first level.
Phil: Oh, well, that's something at least.
Phil: How big of a game is it?
Phil: First of all, just starting with that, you're playing it on Xbox Game Pass.
Phil: It's available everywhere, as we just said.
Phil: I got lots of questions for you.
Phil: But first of all, how big of a download is it?
Tom: I think it was under gigabytes, if I remember correctly.
Tom: I can tell you how much space it takes up on the disk.
Tom: It is, yeah, well under gigabytes.
Tom: It's gigabytes on the disk, so probably about a gigabyte download.
Phil: That's not too bad by modern standards.
Tom: By modern standards, it's extremely good.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: I think I uninstalled South of Midnight to download it, and I think South of Midnight was or or something like that.
Phil: Did you finish South of Midnight?
Tom: No, I didn't.
Phil: Okay, so I guess that wraps up our impressions of South of Midnight, it never launched.
Tom: It was a big install.
Tom: Will I get the Die of Destiny?
Phil: No, no, it's all right.
Phil: Let's go on.
Tom: I think I should get the Die of Destiny.
Tom: I'm going to give South of Midnight, and I'm just going to confirm the download size just for factuality here because I could be wrong.
Tom: Sorry, I was wrong.
Tom: It only requires gigabytes of space, so that changes a lot.
Tom: Let's see what the Die of Destiny has to say about South of Midnight.
Tom: Five out of ten.
Phil: Five out of ten, okay.
Tom: I think that's fair.
Tom: It's not a huge install by modern game standards, but gigabytes is still a couple of hours at bad internet speeds in Australia.
Phil: And that score, just so everyone knows, is not for the game.
Phil: It's just for the size of the download.
Tom: It's for the experience of downloading and installing South of Midnight.
Phil: Excellent.
Phil: That, yeah, well, I can't disagree.
Phil: But back on to Doom, please.
Tom: Well, it's a slightly larger download, as I just said, but still not too bad.
Tom: Will I get the Die of Destiny again?
Phil: Yes, please.
Phil: Just roll on.
Tom: Gets a four out of ten, which I think is fair.
Tom: I think the Die of Destiny is spot on today.
Phil: Well, I think the bigger the download, the lower the score.
Phil: And I think actually we could probably shorten up these episodes instead of reviewing the games if we just reviewed and scored the download experience.
Tom: I think that would make for arguably a better show as well.
Phil: It probably would be faster.
Tom: It would certainly be faster.
Phil: Yeah, and you know, that's what the young kids want these days, is shorter content.
Phil: We could just put on TikTok.
Phil: Okay, I downloaded this.
Tom: TikTok download reviews.
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
Phil: Yeah, downloads.
Phil: There's a way to get our downloads up.
Phil: Giving download reviews.
Tom: Perfect.
Phil: Back to Doom.
Tom: So the two things that, three things actually, that stood out at the beginning.
Tom: The first, which I think was probably the most interesting and piqued my interest the most was the setting.
Tom: It's called The Dark Ages.
Tom: And the setting has a more medieval rather than space-based feeling to it.
Tom: You're exploring churches and areas outside of castle-y sort of buildings.
Tom: The other thing which ties into this that stood out is it appears to be a lot more story-based.
Tom: It begins with a reasonably long introduction featuring some medieval-ly clothed characters and a witch as well.
Tom: And obviously, it is still science fiction, so there are spaceships flying around and a character who appears to be inspired by Jabba the Hutt as well.
Tom: And the introduction was reasonably long.
Tom: And as you are playing through the opening level, you encounter more cutscenes as well.
Tom: So it appears to be very much story-based and aiming to have a different sort of setting to the previous games in the series, which did have similar things, but it was limited to certain settings in the game.
Tom: And maybe as the game continues, that may be the case here as well, as I've only played the first level.
Tom: But given the name of the game, maybe this will be the focus for the setting.
Tom: The other thing that is pretty different to the previous two Dooms, which you may appreciate, is the gameplay is a lot slower and the movement is a lot heavier as well.
Tom: And something you might not actually appreciate is they've added a parry mechanic.
Tom: When enemies shoot particular attacks at you, their projectile will glow green.
Tom: And if you block it at the right time, you will shoot the projectile back at them, or rather deflect it back at them.
Tom: So that changes the gameplay up a little bit and adds, I think, I think it's a necessary addition because of how slow the combat is compared to the other games.
Tom: So obviously, if you're attempting to block projectiles, you're given something you have to react quickly to compared to the standard running around and shooting things, which is a lot slower than in the previous two games.
Phil: Well, the, I mean, like, Doom Eternal, I didn't like because of the platforming.
Phil: The prior Doom, Doom I had zero problems with.
Phil: I love the speed of it.
Tom: I thought you didn't like the combo complexity of Eternal.
Tom: So it was mainly just the platforming you didn't appreciate.
Phil: The platforming is not, yeah.
Phil: And also the lack of direction of the level design is what ultimately was the worst part of that game for me.
Phil: I just, if you're in a Doom game, you should know where you're going.
Phil: You should, you know, like, it was a, you know, a dungeon crawling game.
Phil: It was a corridor shooter is what they used to call them.
Phil: Like there's only one way to go.
Phil: And I didn't like this whole verticality.
Phil: I didn't like the verticality of Doom Eternal.
Tom: I think finding, exploring and finding secret things has always been a part of Doom.
Tom: I don't think you can describe Doom as a corridor shooter.
Tom: I don't think the classic Doom was a corridor shooter.
Tom: It always had branching pathways and areas you could explore that you didn't necessarily need to go to.
Phil: Yeah, that you could double back and wall hump and find things as well.
Tom: And I think I would also add it was always confusing to navigate as well.
Phil: Really?
Tom: I think so.
Phil: I didn't find it confusing.
Phil: Now, is this set on Earth?
Tom: I don't think so, but I'm not sure.
Phil: Well, because I'm asking because the Dark Ages, like, it's a part of our history.
Phil: It lasted like years on here on Earth, right?
Phil: Historians are arguing about it now because we call it the Dark Ages because there was no written history and it's hard to really know what was going on.
Phil: But also, like it was typically before.
Tom: I think we call it the Dark Ages because there weren't Romans around.
Phil: I was just thinking like, what a bummer, man.
Phil: Like years and you're just classified as the Dark Ages.
Phil: And then you have the Renaissance, which is like, oh yeah, ideas, ideas.
Phil: And then, you know, science in the th century.
Phil: I mean, what's this?
Phil: What is this?
Phil: Like, if you took the th century, that's distinct from the th century for sure, right?
Phil: Because we, that's where the technology started and the cars and all that.
Phil: Automation.
Tom: The cars started and automation started in the th century.
Tom: Automation started actually in the th century.
Phil: Yeah, fair enough.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: Because, you know, the steam age and all that sort of thing.
Tom: That's the th century.
Tom: Automation started in the th century, the s.
Phil: Well, what's the earliest example of automation in the s?
Tom: The change to how things were produced with segmenting the production of things.
Phil: I thought Henry Ford started that in the th century.
Tom: No, he didn't.
Tom: He invented the modern factory form of that.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: So who was doing it before that?
Tom: Everyone.
Tom: England began that in the late s and it spread throughout Europe.
Tom: Mid to late s, sorry.
Phil: So the current generation that we're in, would you classify us as being in that same generation still?
Tom: I think we're still in the same age as, yeah, I would say from the late s onwards, yes.
Phil: Yeah, I'd agree.
Phil: I'd say from the late s to now, nothing has really changed much.
Tom: What changes there are are not based on a change in the means of production.
Phil: No, no.
Phil: So like, if you took someone from, if you put me, what would be more difficult, putting me into or taking someone from and putting them into ?
Tom: I think logically, as long as that person has some knowledge of history, putting someone in the past should always be an easier thing than putting someone in the future, given they should have a minimum amount of knowledge of what they're being put into.
Phil: Right, because you just go back and go, okay, yeah, the toilets aren't great.
Tom: Exactly.
Phil: But you could still go to a soccer match, right?
Phil: You could still go to a soccer match, you could still read the newspaper, you could still buy a loaf of bread.
Tom: It would be a very different sort of soccer match then though.
Phil: Oh, yeah.
Tom: And you'd be participating in it if you went to it, probably.
Phil: Probably, because it was like hundreds of people just running down the street, getting kicked in the balls.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: So nothing much has changed.
Tom: That's why they called it football.
Phil: But if you brought someone from into here and they see a car, they'd probably have a heart attack if they saw a modern car or a modern airplane or any of that sort of thing.
Phil: But yeah, so we're still the same age.
Phil: So what do you think this age is going to be called?
Phil: Because it's been called the steam age, the industrial age, the space age, but it's not really an age when they called it the space age.
Phil: They basically meant the s and s.
Phil: It's like two decades.
Tom: Well, I think there are changes in how wealth is distributed.
Tom: So you could say we're in a different age today in terms of how wealth is distributed compared to in the past.
Tom: Or you could say we're in a different age since the late s in how quickly changes in wealth distribution occur.
Tom: Because since the late s, we've gone through several totally different ways to distribute and redistribute wealth in a period of only a little bit over years, years or so.
Phil: I've got a proposition.
Phil: What if we call the late s to today, I'm going to call it the Leisure Age.
Phil: Because I think for the Leisure Age, because for the first time in human history, we've, I'm going to address that in a second, but perhaps for the first time in Western civilization, we've now got the ability to have leisure time since the late s to today.
Tom: But pre s, we had more leisure time, so we've returned to a leisure time, you could say.
Phil: Right, and why I said we'll talk about that some more, because if you look at, I'm reading a book about the indigenous people of Australia, and yeah, there was hunting, there was gathering, but you know, like most of the time was leisure time.
Phil: You know, if certainly if you lived in the coastal community, you know, as long as you killed a kangaroo a day sort of thing, that would feed the whole tribe.
Phil: And or go catch some fish or, you know, kill a ducong or whatever.
Phil: And but most of the time was leisure, so.
Tom: Here's an alternative theory that I've just come up with on the spot.
Tom: Let's call from the mid to late s.
Tom: And obviously all of these theories apply solely to Europe and then the Americas.
Tom: Let's call that the capitalist era from, let's say to
Tom: Then from to the present day, and some people might say it doesn't apply to the present day, but if we're calling the present day the neoliberal era, but I don't think the neoliberal era has gone long enough for us to say that that is actually a change or not.
Tom: Let's call the era from the s to today as an era of duality, with the duality being communism and fascism, and those two things resulting in the opportunity for very rapid changes in economic systems on a mass scale, which has occurred numerous times in numerous ways since the First World War, and doesn't really have a precedent since probably arguably the beginning of empires.
Phil: Not bad, not bad.
Phil: I like the capitalist age.
Phil: I'd possibly suggest, and I'm happy to be wrong about this, that from the s on, we'd call it the War Age, because that's where you've had entire industries and political systems, basically.
Phil: Their oxygen is war.
Phil: Their oxygen is...
Tom: Well that's how fascism comes into it though, because one of the most important things for fascism is war, and using war to achieve economic goals as well.
Phil: Well, again, Video Game Podcast, we're talking about Doom the Dark Ages.
Phil: I think we've raised some good points here about what we would call this age.
Phil: If you want to let us know what you would call this age, and when it starts and finishes...
Tom: You could tweet it to us.
Phil: Yeah, well, don't tweet it to us.
Phil: Go to gameunder.net and put it in the comment section.
Phil: And also, as always, if you're using a modern video game podcast app, you can use our chapter markers to skip anything that you don't like, or go back and listen to something you do like a second time.
Tom: So I presume they will be skipping to the Doom Impressions for this sort of content.
Phil: Yeah, or the Leisure Age versus the Capitalist Age.
Tom: That is the Doom Impressions.
Phil: Yep, indeed.
Phil: So going back to the Capitalist Age...
Phil: Okay, I just want to hit some basics here, right?
Phil: Is this as good as Doom ?
Tom: I don't think so.
Tom: I think I did not appreciate the slow down, the slower pace of the combat so far.
Tom: For me, it simply made it a bit less interesting.
Tom: It feels almost Halo-esque in its combat.
Tom: And also in terms of its storytelling as well.
Tom: That being said, I was enjoying the setting, and that intrigued me that I might be more likely to continue playing it than Doom Eternal.
Tom: My issue with Doom Eternal is simply that it was very enjoyable, but and this applies to the original Doom as well.
Tom: It was too much like the original Doom, that after playing the original Doom, I just felt like if I want to play Doom, I should just go back and play the original Doom or Doom or even Doom as they're simply vastly superior to the Doom reboot, as good as the Doom reboot is.
Phil: And obviously, yeah, the Doom reboot with the new music on Steam or on PC is absolutely fantastic.
Phil: Doom is fantastic as well.
Phil: Just hitting some of the high notes, music.
Tom: I think it's enjoyable, as enjoyable so far as it has been in the previous two games in the series.
Phil: Shield Mechanics, one of my favorite video games of all time is Urban Chaos Riot Response, because you could use a shield in Malay.
Phil: It was fantastic, because once you ran out of ammo, or if you're close enough to someone, you just smash your heads in with a shield.
Phil: Is this pleasing in this game?
Tom: I think it's pleasing, particularly with the parry, but I would rather not have the shield and have faster-paced combat, I would say.
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Phil: So what do you think this, why did they slow it down, do you think?
Tom: Maybe to reach a wider audience, and the second one did get a fair bit of criticism for being so complex and over-the-top, so maybe they were responding to that to some degree.
Phil: Yeah, well, they did have to dumb it down, because Doom's brand is, you know, dumb fun, speed, adrenaline, next thing, you know, always moving forward, and they complicated it by introducing Parry systems and all the rest of it, so they had to get away from that.
Phil: But I don't know if slowing it down is the answer.
Phil: Why just go back to Doom ?
Tom: I should add, though, it is only the first level, so it could be that as you go out of what is essentially an extended tutorial, it does pick up in pace.
Phil: Graphically, on the PC?
Tom: Graphically looks good.
Tom: A little bit more, probably a little bit more detailed than Doom Eternal, I would say.
Phil: Did it challenge your aging PC?
Tom: No, it did not.
Phil: Oh, fantastic.
Phil: Well, you know, small down load.
Tom: I think it actually ran better than Doom Eternal did.
Phil: I've heard that the PC version is much preferred over the PlayStation version.
Phil: I haven't heard any reports about the Xbox version.
Tom: So unless you have any other questions, I think that probably covers it for Doom.
Phil: All right.
Phil: Well, I'm really interested in it.
Phil: I'd love for you to continue with it.
Phil: I don't have Game Pass, I should probably look into that.
Phil: But we'll get there.
Phil: We'll get there.
Tom: You probably need to get reasonable Internet before you consider Game Pass though.
Phil: Yeah, that's true.
Phil: That's true.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Well, other games, have you finished Clair Obscure?
Tom: I've not finished Clair Obscure yet, no, but I can probably talk a little bit more about it.
Phil: Well, if you want to, or we can hold those off until you finish the game.
Phil: But if there's anything of note that you want to mention here.
Tom: I think we may as well talk about it because in the previous episode, I think you found my impressions to be too positive.
Tom: So I think it's time to talk about some of the negatives.
Phil: So, as a percentage of the game or hours into the game, just to give our listeners some perspective, like where are you now in the game?
Phil: How far are you into it?
Phil: What's changed since the last time?
Phil: How far were you into it the last time we spoke?
Tom: I think last time I was probably almost halfway through it.
Tom: Now I'm maybe about percent or so.
Phil: Okay.
Tom: So nearly two-thirds in, I would say.
Tom: I think the first thing I have to bring up that is a huge negative is, and it might seem like it's not important, but given it's inspired by JRPGs, I think it is important, and that is the minigames and side content related to minigames.
Tom: Now, the Final Fantasy series, for example, has a great history of excellent minigames, from brilliant card games to the hilarious, yet enjoyable minigames in Final Fantasy at the Casino.
Tom: So, if you're inspired by JRPGs and you got to put minigames in, and you are achieving, achieving what you want to achieve everywhere else in the game, you want to nail the minigames as well, but alas...
Phil: And let's not forget Blitzball.
Tom: Absolutely.
Tom: I think that was my favorite.
Tom: I probably spent to hours playing Blitzball.
Phil: And because this is a French game, it's actually J'Apare...
Phil: J'RPG.
Phil: J'RPG.
Phil: Not J-RPG.
Phil: You got to put an apostrophe in there.
Tom: J'Apare-du.
Tom: No, that's an actor.
Phil: No, no.
Phil: Yeah, he's in trouble too.
Phil: He's...
Tom: That was a long time coming, I believe.
Phil: He's back in court.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Long time coming.
Phil: No pun intended.
Phil: So, yeah.
Phil: So, anyway, back to Clair Obscure.
Tom: So, the mini games are...
Tom: There are two main ones.
Tom: One of them is platforming, which is not a good idea.
Tom: Not a good idea at all.
Tom: Um, it is manageable, but it is just awkward and unsatisfying.
Tom: And worse than that, one of the platforming segments, the challenge in it isn't any of the platforming.
Tom: It's simply the fact that it goes on for like five fucking minutes with no checkpoint.
Tom: And if you fall at any point, you have to start all over again.
Tom: Um, another one is a volleyball game where you have to parry, uh, launched enemies at you back at your opponent.
Tom: And it's awkward.
Tom: And worse than that, the final level of it, they zoom out a lot for some reason.
Tom: So all the others, it's awkward, but you can see what's going on pretty well.
Tom: The last one, for some inexplicable reason, they zoom the camera out.
Tom: So not only is it fucking awkward, you also can not easily see what the fuck you're doing.
Tom: It's just a bizarre decision.
Tom: And if they had not changed the fucking camera angle, which there is no need for them to do, it would not be so infuriatingly annoying.
Phil: I mean, that's gotta be just an oversight, right?
Tom: It's a bizarre decision.
Phil: I don't know.
Phil: It can't be a decision.
Phil: It's just gotta be an oversight.
Tom: Maybe they zoomed out to try and make it more dramatic, perhaps?
Phil: Mm, possibly.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: That's all I can think of.
Phil: Or there was some...
Phil: We never know.
Phil: You know, there could have been some sort of glitch and...
Tom: But so the mini games are unfortunately pretty terrible.
Tom: The only other negative I can think of, which could be handled better, is at the camp.
Tom: I think I mentioned it before.
Tom: You are talking to the characters, the other characters in the party.
Tom: Um, and in these segments, the way the dialogue is handled is a little bit awkward.
Tom: Um, some of them are more fleshed out than others.
Tom: Like, there'll be a back and forth.
Tom: Um, it's usually voice acted for the most part.
Tom: But then at the end, um, there will be a bit of a summary where it's like the two characters went on to talk about this and that.
Tom: Um, for the segments where there's a proceeding conversation, um, that is of a reasonable length, it develops the character in a satisfying way.
Tom: Some of them, there'll just be a few lines of dialogue.
Tom: Then there'll be this expositional thing following it, which is basically just a description of the conversation where you might have wanted to actually experience the conversation for yourself.
Tom: So those can sometimes be a bit of a chore to get through when you need to get through them to increase the character relationships with each other, which unlocks special moves.
Tom: So those are two things that I think, um, the mini games I think is a major thing, that's more of just a minor annoyance.
Phil: Are the mini, are the mini games, are the mini games optional though?
Tom: Yep, they are optional.
Tom: But again, in a, in a Depardieu game, you want the mini games, yep.
Tom: You want the, Gérard Depardieu, sorry, game, you want the mini games to be enjoyable and engrossing.
Phil: Otherwise, leave them out.
Tom: Exactly.
Phil: Yeah, leave them out, you know.
Tom: And you, and you need to play them to unlock the characters, bikinis and, um, jodpers.
Tom: So it's, it's an important thing because you want your characters to be half naked.
Tom: It is a Gérard Depardieu after all.
Phil: Now we understand why this was an essential part of your, uh, of your gaming experience.
Phil: Oh, God.
Phil: Speaking of, oh no, we'll get, we'll get to that another day.
Phil: Um, so, okay, well, any other impressions at this point of, uh, Clair Obscure?
Tom: Uh, the only other thing I would add, so we can end on a positive note, is, um, I've now unlocked all the characters, and, um, with the exception of a character that is there, to, um, back up the role of another character, uh, if I can say that without spoiling much, who has a similar skill set, the, or every single character in the game has, um, a totally different way of being played, which is very impressive indeed.
Phil: All right, well, I look forward to your final impressions of Clair Obscure on our next episode, or later.
Phil: I'm not here to assign homework, so...
Tom: At this rate, it will probably be several episodes in the future.
Phil: Oh, come on!
Phil: Finish it up.
Phil: Let's get, uh, get it done.
Tom: Well, it depends, it depends on how long the platforming and volleyball takes me.
Phil: Okay, well, now I've got a new feature, which means, of course, I've got a new stinger.
Phil: So here's our stinger.
Phil: And that's right, we're talking about my generation.
Phil: Of course, we're talking about video games, so that means my generation of consoles.
Phil: So I basically thought it'd be interesting for both of us to talk about what was your preference in each console generation.
Phil: Do you think we should...
Tom: Which generation did you have in mind?
Phil: Well, do you think we should...
Phil: No, generation like, like, you know, the PSversus Xbox.
Tom: Well, that's what I mean.
Tom: Which console generation did you have in mind?
Phil: Well, we're going to do this chronologically.
Phil: This is going to be one...
Phil: We can't do them all tonight.
Phil: So do you want to do it, like, start from now and then work back?
Phil: Or do you want to start from the beginning and work forward?
Tom: I think start from the beginning and work forward.
Tom: You know, actually, that's how most people would do it, isn't it?
Tom: Let's do it in reverse chronological order.
Phil: I think so.
Phil: Yeah, because the other thing is, you missed the first years of my life, so you're going to be like, no, no, no, no, no, until we get to N
Tom: That'll be a solo Phil Fogg episode.
Phil: Yeah, a monologue.
Phil: The funny, one of the podcasts I listen to is Bill Burr, who's a comedian, right?
Phil: And he has a podcast, he has two podcasts a week that go for three hours long.
Phil: And he is a self-trained drummer.
Phil: He's a comedian.
Phil: He's also got a helicopter license, okay?
Phil: So the guy's not dumb.
Phil: Like he's able to, he's capable of learning things.
Phil: But he comes off, he likes to say, you know, he's got blue collar roots and all this sort of stuff.
Phil: He was talking about words, right?
Phil: And a word came up.
Phil: Yeah, what the, what the f**k does that mean?
Phil: You know, it's like soliloquy.
Phil: What does that mean?
Phil: And I'm like, okay, dude, you're seriously saying soliloquy.
Phil: What does that mean?
Phil: I mean, when you host two podcasts a week that are three hours long each with no guests, he cannot be serious or he's a comedian.
Tom: Well, he may not soliloquize, as long as he knows what monologue means.
Tom: I think he can get away with it.
Phil: Yeah, that's true.
Phil: Okay, so what were the current generation?
Phil: Well, the current generation is Switch, PlayStation and Xbox S series and PC.
Phil: So, what was your lead way of playing games between the Switch, PlayStation Xbox X and S or PC?
Tom: PC, unless I'm on a plane, then it's the Switch.
Phil: Okay, so PC and that obviously encompassed VR usage as well?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: You bought a Quest is that right?
Tom: So, my main VR gaming was probably directly on the Quest
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: But we're now out to the Quest I think, so that would be a generation behind now.
Phil: Yeah, that's true.
Phil: But, you know, that is a part of the PC type thing.
Phil: As for me, in the current gen, I was buying absolutely everything I could on the Switch.
Phil: Indie games, no matter what, because it was portable, because it was hand held, it was fantastic.
Phil: But then when I upgraded my gaming PC and then bought a Steam Deck, that obviously obviated the need for a Switch.
Phil: So, yeah, for me, this current generation has been PC.
Phil: Now, that one ended pretty short, so let's go back.
Phil: Now, well, actually, why?
Tom: Shouldn't we expand on why?
Phil: Yeah, why?
Phil: Why?
Phil: Why did you not go out and buy a PlayStation ?
Phil: Why did you not buy an Xbox?
Phil: What Xboxes have you bought in the past?
Phil: What PlayStations have you bought in the past?
Tom: I think there's absolutely no reason to buy a PlayStation or an Xbox without a PC.
Tom: The only reason to is yet to come, and that is Grand Theft Auto
Tom: Other than that, there's no reason to at all.
Tom: There are good reasons to buy a Switch, hence I have actually two Switches, not only one.
Phil: One for each hand, obviously.
Tom: Exactly.
Phil: Then what are the good reasons to own a Switch?
Tom: I think the Nintendo games as well as Indie games because it is portable, so I think it offers a good alternative to playing on PC.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: Or at least I thought it did until I very rarely used it.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: I would say until the Steam Deck, I would be a Switch PC player.
Phil: Playing games even on my gaming PC is difficult because I've got to share TV time because it is hooked up to my TV and I have very limited leisure time despite my prior...
Tom: Despite living in the leisure age.
Phil: Leisure age.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: So for me, the Switch was paramount because you got the Nintendo content, you got the Indie content, it was portable, it was dockable, it was a perfect system.
Phil: But I'd say the downside of it is no discounts.
Phil: Like, you know, now I got plenty of money, that's not a problem, but it's the point of it, right?
Phil: If I can go on Steam and get it for $but Nintendo is still charging, you know, $for an Indie game, what's the point there?
Phil: And with the Steam Deck, I was able to bring over my large library of Steam games and have them instantly available.
Phil: So that's what's made the Switch a harder thing.
Phil: If the Steam Deck had never been released in Australia, I would be a day one Switch owner because of the portable factor, because of the dockable factor.
Phil: So that's why I chose Switch early in the generation.
Phil: Now, you've had limited Xbox ownership in the past, right?
Tom: All I've got is the original Xbox.
Phil: Right, and I've bought every Xbox up until the current gen.
Phil: And in PlayStation, you've bought everything up through PlayStation right?
Tom: Until the PS
Tom: I should add, though, actually, one of the reasons that added to not buying more consoles, which the Switch was a good example of why that was a good decision, and I perhaps should not have bought a Switch, is the reason I stopped buying Xboxes at the original Xbox was the terrible hardware of the Xbox
Tom: And buying more PlayStations, I was also put off because I've had two PlayStation s and two PlayStation s, and I've now also had two Switches because of the battery in the original Switch I had very quickly.
Tom: It still functions, luckily, which allowed me to easily change what my primary console was after that ridiculous update.
Tom: But it does, it's not usable as a portable.
Tom: The battery will only last a very short period of time.
Tom: And the OLED Switch which I replaced it with, the screen got scratched very easily as well.
Tom: So why the fuck would I want to be buying these consoles which have horrendously bad manufacturing quality when I can make a PC that I know will be well put together because I've done that myself.
Tom: So as long as I'm purchasing parts that are from a manufacturer who is releasing reasonable quality parts, it's not going to fucking die and make me buy a several hundred dollar thing that should last.
Tom: I mean, it has the only moving parts in it are fans.
Tom: So it should last a reasonable period of time yet does not.
Phil: Definitely.
Phil: And the other thing is, is if a part fails in your PC, you can replace it without having to throw away the whole PC.
Tom: That's right.
Tom: Yes.
Phil: If something breaks in my Steam Deck or breaks in my Switch, I'm pretty confident on Steam Deck side because they're so open, that there's probably stuff, the solutions there.
Phil: But on the Switch side or the Xbox side or the PlayStation side, yeah, like we've been abused as consumers, right?
Phil: You buy a console, it breaks, you can't fix it, you know, you can upgrade hardware and all the rest of it.
Phil: But yeah, I get where you-
Tom: And there's no excuse for them to break so easily either.
Phil: No.
Phil: Okay, so back to me now, right?
Phil: So on the Xbox side, why didn't I get an Xbox this time?
Phil: Not compelling, as I've said many times before, they early advertised that it would be backward compatible with every Xbox game ever made.
Phil: I would have purchased five of them on day one because I have a fantastic and large collection of original Xbox, Xbox games and Xbox One games.
Phil: That turned out to be a lie, right?
Phil: So there's no reason for me to buy it because I can play all of those games on Game Pass or on PC.
Phil: They don't have any exclusives anymore.
Phil: I mean, the best, I think the five best-selling games on PlayStation right now are published by Microsoft, which leads me to why I didn't get a PlayStation.
Phil: I'm a Sony fanboy, right?
Phil: Anything that's Sony, I will buy, right?
Phil: I've still got my Walkmans from the s that are fantastic.
Phil: And I love Sony, I love everything they do.
Phil: But there hasn't been any compelling content, and the compelling content they have requires me to download more than what I'm able to download here in Australia.
Phil: So it's just not, those two platforms have not been viable for me for this generation.
Phil: Now come a game like Grand Theft Auto if they were to release Uncharted with some sort of compelling reason, I'm kind of tired of Last of Us.
Phil: They've released a fantastic Ratchet and Clank game, they've released a fantastic Astrobot game, but besides that, the content has been lacking.
Phil: And it just hasn't been viable to spend, you know, essentially a thousand bucks on a system that I'm really going to use, and that my family doesn't see any interest in using.
Phil: So this generation, that's where I've been.
Phil: Now, you've owned every PlayStation up through PlayStation
Phil: Why didn't you get a PlayStation ?
Tom: I think the reason I said before is really two things.
Tom: One is bad experiences with PlayStation hardware over the PSand PSgenerations.
Tom: Bearing in mind again, the PlayStation I've got the original version of that, which is meant to be the unreliable crap version of the PlayStation
Phil: It's great.
Tom: But it's meant to be, and it's still working.
Tom: Meanwhile, I went through two PlayStation s and two PlayStation s.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: So, if I'm being sold a console that is between $to $I don't want to have to rebuy that thing at any point in the future, or at least not for years or something like that.
Tom: I think years is the minimum reasonable length of time for something like that to last.
Phil: If you spent $on a Sony, quote, hi-fi, right?
Tom: Yep.
Tom: That will last infinitely.
Phil: It will last probably years, right?
Phil: Because it will be a fantastic audio system.
Phil: If you buy a Sony television for $it will last you more than years and you'll only get rid of it because after years, it's going to be too small compared to the competition.
Phil: Why are we buying consoles for $that fail after three years?
Phil: It's ridiculous.
Tom: Exactly.
Phil: Don't get me started, but maybe it's because these fantastic Sony things that I have in my house that have lasted a billion years were made in Japan and now Sony things aren't made in Japan.
Tom: I don't think so.
Tom: I think it is they know gamers will rebuy them.
Tom: I think it's as simple as that.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: It's cynical.
Phil: It is cynical.
Phil: Well, we've run out of time.
Phil: We're going to put Minecraft into another show.
Phil: We'll pick up talking about My Generation next episode, but I do want to thank you for listening.
Tom: Before we finish, I do have to bring up a new episode.
Phil: Well, I brought up Trademark Banter.
Phil: Do you have any more Trademark Banter?
Tom: Well, we've got to end on Trademark Banter.
Tom: This is the Trademark Banter episode.
Tom: So we've talked about going to see films in person.
Tom: We're going to move on to seeing music in person with our final instalment of Trademark Banter for the episode.
Tom: A couple of months ago, or a few months ago, it went for several months.
Tom: So let's say several months ago in Melbourne at Federation Square, the Victorian government had a series of free concerts that they were putting on.
Phil: That's nice.
Tom: And one of the bands or, they're not really a band, they're a rap group.
Tom: One of the acts they had performed during this series is an Irish rap group called Northern Irish Rap Group.
Tom: So a British rap group called Kneecap.
Phil: Oh, Kneecap.
Phil: Yeah, they're quite controversial because they're on the British news, because they basically incite people to commit violence and murder against British politicians.
Tom: As they should as Irish Republicans.
Phil: Well, that's, yeah, okay.
Tom: But that's not the reason why they're in trouble there.
Tom: One of them has been charged with terrorism because they had a Hezbollah flag at one of their concerts.
Phil: What does a Hezbollah flag look like?
Tom: I think it looks like a flag, I would presume.
Phil: Well, yeah, I know what a flag looks like, but like what colours does it have?
Tom: It's a piece of cloth, usually.
Tom: Maybe, I'm googling it now.
Phil: Well, you're googling it.
Phil: Okay, well, you're getting on a list.
Phil: Because like, I know Al-Qaeda.
Tom: It's a yellow flag with a green background.
Phil: Cowards.
Phil: Oh, Australia.
Tom: There's Arabic writing, there's a hand holding an AK-
Phil: Oh, good.
Tom: And there's a globe on it as well.
Phil: Oh, well.
Tom: It's actually a pretty good flag.
Tom: Well.
Tom: If I had access to a Hezbollah flag, I would display it as well.
Phil: Look, I think any flag that has clip art on it is disqualified as being a good flag.
Phil: Give me a good three-band color like the French flag.
Phil: You know, that's fine.
Phil: UK.
Phil: I mean, nothing beats the UK's flag, except perhaps the United States flag.
Tom: There's a version of it where the fist appears to be coming out of an explosion.
Phil: Oh, Hezbollah.
Tom: We've got, I think, the cover art for this episode of the show here.
Phil: No, we do not.
Phil: So now, is Hezbollah like a real movement or is it like a CIA front?
Tom: I think it surely had received CIA funding at some point, you would presume.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Now, why is kneecap a bunch of Irishmen?
Tom: Well, here's the insane thing, right?
Tom: I could not believe.
Tom: I can only assume, again, this is a Victorian government funded series of concerts.
Phil: Of course it is.
Tom: In Victoria, if you have any pro-Palestine statements, any government funding things you previously had access to, you get kicked off the moment you make any pro-Palestine statements or it's discovered you are pro-Palestine.
Tom: Well, that's supposed to be me.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: Well, that's the case.
Tom: Historically, anyway, at least since October the th, but also before then, it was very difficult to get any government funding if you made known that you were pro-Palestine publicly.
Phil: However, now that the Labour government has been re-elected.
Tom: I don't think that will change.
Tom: The Victorian Labour has been in power in Victoria perhaps all my lifetime almost.
Tom: Let's see how long.
Phil: Oh, yeah.
Tom: One decade apparently.
Phil: Oh.
Tom: So a little under a third of my lifetime that has been Labour.
Tom: So that's been Labour policy is you're not meant to be government funded if you are vocally pro-Palestine.
Tom: So I assumed, here's the thing, right?
Tom: They were at the concert.
Tom: They had a Palestine flag.
Tom: They were singing.
Tom: The whole crowd was chanting, Maggie Thatcher is in a box.
Tom: Get your Brits out.
Tom: All of these sorts of things.
Phil: That's terrible.
Tom: It was a beautiful thing.
Tom: It was beautiful.
Phil: You know, Margaret Thatcher was not a bad person.
Phil: I mean, it's terrible.
Tom: I think Margaret Thatcher was a very bad person.
Phil: How so?
Tom: I think generally the defunding of welfare, That's a myth.
Tom: the warmongering.
Tom: I don't think that's a myth.
Phil: The warmongering is just part of doing business.
Tom: How is that a myth?
Phil: She didn't defund welfare.
Tom: She objectively defunded welfare.
Phil: Okay.
Tom: In what way didn't she?
Phil: She didn't.
Tom: In terms of sheer numbers or policy?
Phil: In terms of policy.
Tom: I think in terms of sheer numbers, you could make the argument she didn't.
Phil: Yes, but you know.
Tom: But in terms of policy, I don't think you can.
Phil: All right.
Phil: We'll keep going.
Phil: So I just can't believe-
Tom: You can't make this statement without expanding on it.
Tom: I want to hear.
Phil: No, no.
Phil: Let me get my head around this.
Tom: You're telling me I'm wrong.
Tom: I want to understand why I'm wrong.
Phil: I think she was a reasonably nice person.
Tom: I don't think so.
Phil: She made some modest cuts.
Phil: It didn't affect anyone.
Tom: So she did make cuts.
Phil: Well, the cuts are always needed, aren't they?
Tom: If you're making modest cuts, by definition, isn't that defunding something?
Tom: I'm not saying she defunded something to the point of totally removing any funds.
Phil: No, no.
Tom: So she did make cuts.
Phil: She empowered...
Tom: She made cuts.
Tom: She introduced our anti-union laws.
Phil: She empowered private industry so they could contribute more taxes for the ne'er-do-wells.
Phil: Hey, but let me get my head around this.
Tom: You saw a kneecap perform life.
Tom: Sounds like she's a terrible person to me.
Phil: You saw a kneecap perform life.
Tom: That's amazing.
Tom: At a government-funded thing.
Phil: Well, this is why your government needs to be cut, but-
Tom: I'm bringing it up now because I was wondering.
Tom: There's two explanations for this.
Tom: Either kneecap is, what's the term for it?
Tom: Agent provocateur and funded opposition, or they just didn't do any due diligence and had no idea who the fuck they were.
Tom: I'm now leaning towards the latter, given that they have been charged with terrorism offences in the UK.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: This is just clueless programming.
Tom: So it was a beautiful thing to see Irish Republican, mainly drug-themed, rap group performing at a government-funded, free concert at Federation Square.
Phil: I was listening to some of their music this morning, and it sounds very poppy.
Phil: It sounds very-
Tom: I think it's very de Antwoord influenced.
Phil: What is that?
Tom: De Antwoord.
Phil: And what's that?
Tom: That's the Dutch, not Dutch, sorry.
Tom: That's the South African rap group that used, then weren't the first group to use techno in rap, but they were probably outside of UK acts, the biggest and most successful.
Tom: But UK rap has a long history of using techno in grime, for example, and also using garage as well.
Phil: Up until this morning, until I heard their music, I was a fan of kneecap.
Phil: I thought, well, okay, freedom of speech.
Phil: You know, they're just doing stuff.
Phil: It's a speech, sticks and stones, you know, like, who cares?
Phil: And I didn't, I didn't, I thought at worst that maybe they're being provocative for public relations and increase their downloads and stuff like that, which they probably are.
Phil: It's all commercial.
Phil: But when I actually heard their music this morning, I was like, this isn't, this isn't rap.
Phil: This isn't, I thought they were going to be like punk or death metal or something like that.
Tom: But this is UK rap.
Tom: Like I said, using, using techno as your beats has a long history in UK rap.
Phil: It does.
Phil: It does.
Tom: This is, this is, this is not like an American, if it was an American group doing this.
Phil: If it was an American group doing this, it just sounds like AI, you know.
Phil: And so I, I lost respect for them because I thought that they were perhaps the, the second, you know, coming of Dead Kennedys or something like that.
Tom: I think, I think their punk, their punk content is authentic.
Tom: And I think their music is, I think it's a good example of UK techno themed rap.
Tom: And the, but one thing that did make me lose respect for them, or at least their fans, and I don't know if this is an Irish thing, but they had a mosh going.
Tom: So it was a proper, even though it was a free concert at Federation Square, it was a proper intense crowd.
Tom: But the Irish people there wouldn't let anyone who wanted to push their way to their front or swim through the crowd to get where they wanted to be.
Tom: They wouldn't let people through.
Tom: They were like, f**k off, we got here before you, we can stand at the front.
Tom: And my mind was blown.
Tom: What the f**k?
Phil: No, no, no.
Tom: That is, I just could not believe it, but we do know that people in Britain are meant to be obsessed with queuing, so maybe it is a thing there.
Tom: You could have a mosh pit, but you got to arrive two hours early to be allowed in the mosh pit.
Tom: Otherwise, get to the back of the line, you f**k.
Phil: Yeah, well, I went to a Grateful Dead concert in Orange County, California.
Phil: Orange County is where Richard Nixon is from.
Phil: It's probably up until recently, the most conservative county in California.
Phil: If you want to see some weird s**t, go to a Grateful Dead show in Irvine, California.
Phil: It's like two things just, it's like an explosion of, well, it's polarity.
Phil: It's like a positive and negative.
Tom: It's the duality of man.
Phil: Yeah, polarity, polarity, not duality.
Tom: The polarity of man.
Phil: Thanks for listening to this trademark banter.
Tom: We're going to call the era from the s to the polarised era, the polarity era, the polar era.
Tom: That's the one we're looking for, the polar era.
Phil: Thanks for listening to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: We've been doing this since or so.
Phil: There's a lot of resources covering games from that time to now at our website at gameunder.net.
Phil: If you'd like to submit a question or comment, and I can't imagine anyone listening to this to this point that wouldn't want to submit a comment, just go to our homepage and type it in there.
Phil: You don't have to register or anything.
Phil: It's completely anonymous.
Phil: Thanks again for listening to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: I am Phil Fogg.
Tom: I'm Tom Towers.
Tom: If you're not in the UK, possibly America, and you don't mind missing out on Victorian government funding, make sure you Google the Hezbollah flag.
Tom: Also add Deutsche Villa to it and the date, the th of the th, to see one of the most hilarious and beautiful flags you'll ever come across.
Phil: And this is where you say, I'm Tom Towers, so I can edit all of that out.
Phil: I can just insert it from another episode if you want.
Tom: No comment.