Game Under Podcast 127

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Intro
0:00:10 Democracy is Dead in Victoria, (Apparently)

Final Impressions
0:05:35 Sludge Life for PC and Switch
0:23:35 Stranger Things 3 The Game & Ready Player One
0:27:51 Sky: Children of Light "Expansion" Season of Sanctuary
0:36:42 Death and Taxes (soilers at 52 minutes)
1:01:21 Beat Cop

Trademark Banter
1:27:45 Metro Exodus and Various Game Store Platforms
1:41:30 Armchair Marxism

Transcript

Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode 127 of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I'm your co-host, Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by Tom Towers.

Phil: Tom, how are you?

Tom: I am surprisingly well, given the cold and wet weather, and that I believe, according to Alan Jones, democracy is dead in Victoria.

Phil: Democracy is dead in your home state?

Tom: Yes, it is, apparently.

Phil: Is that because of the, now you guys have had a bit of a situation with the whole virus thing, SARS-2, is that, have your liberties been taken away from you more so than recently?

Tom: Well, I did not look in any more.

Tom: This was on a YouTube thumbnail featuring Alan Jones.

Tom: So I don't actually want to know why, but I would suspect probably the main reason, according to Alan Jones, that democracy will be dead in Victoria would be the fact that a Labour party was elected some time ago.

Tom: So that would probably be the reason.

Phil: All right, so for our internationalist, Alan Jones, classify him as a conservative talk show host.

Phil: He's on AM radio or FM radio.

Tom: Alan Jones is essentially a polite version of Alex Jones and Australian without the wonderful existential commentary of Alex Jones.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, look, I'm glad to be here.

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Phil: I know that we were very upbeat the last time that we spoke.

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Phil: And then since then, I've been listening to various other video game podcasts.

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Phil: It's been quite dank and dire.

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Phil: There's like a major podcast that opened up in its first like hour was talking about a resurgence of Me Too affecting the game community and entertainment community and all this sort of thing.

00:02:04.600 --> 00:02:10.900

Phil: And I was like, the only place I actually heard about it was on video game podcasts.

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Phil: I didn't hear about it anywhere else in everything else that I listened to.

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Phil: And you know, I listen to copious amounts of media every week.

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Phil: Have you picked up on this at all?

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Tom: I think there's something going on in a few large developers, possibly Ubisoft.

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Tom: And also, I think, again, more things in the fighting game community.

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Phil: Yeah, yeah, I heard about that.

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Tom: But I don't know many details.

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Phil: Yeah, and there's also been some scuttlebutt in the game press as well.

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Phil: And I think that's probably what they were self-flagellating themselves about.

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Phil: But really, ultimately, I just don't get all of the negativity.

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Phil: And people, you know, being freaked out about staying at home for such a long period, I just don't get it.

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Phil: I would love to have an extended period of time at home.

00:03:04.760 --> 00:03:07.160

Tom: The air quality is significantly better here.

00:03:07.580 --> 00:03:08.960

Tom: Less traffic noise.

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Tom: And the people who were able to at least walk around are significantly more relaxed and friendly than usual.

00:03:18.660 --> 00:03:23.420

Phil: Yeah, yeah, because maybe because they're appreciating, you know, walking around more than not.

00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:24.340

Phil: Indeed.

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Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:03:25.600 --> 00:03:27.220

Phil: Anyway, I just thought that was interesting.

00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:32.960

Phil: And in other bad news or whatever else, The Game Informer continues to collapse.

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Phil: And I guess at this point, I'll just stop mentioning it in the show because it just seems to be a weekly thing where the final video game magazine is going away.

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Tom: Hasn't Game Informer gone away about five times now?

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Phil: Well, they just keep whittling it away.

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Phil: And then finally, their chief editor, who'd been there for 29 years, finally got the picture and left.

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Phil: And then a couple of other people left as well.

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Phil: So I don't know why...

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Tom: As disappointed as you will be when Game Informer finally ceases to exist, I will be equally pleased because...

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Phil: You don't have to hear about this anymore.

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Tom: Exactly.

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Phil: Yeah.

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Phil: Look, the thing is, I don't think they're actually even very good at what they do.

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Phil: In fact, they've been consistently poor with their podcast since inception.

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Phil: Their reviews are poor, their features are poor.

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Phil: I don't know why I care.

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Phil: I guess it's just the tangible magazine, which they cancelled in Australia long ago.

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Tom: Much like Hyper, which has been awful for many, many years, if not perhaps a decade or so.

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Tom: And who knows if it still exists or not, but it would be a pity if it did in fact cease to exist, in spite of its atrocious state of existence.

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Phil: I went into a newsagent last week to get a video game magazine.

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Phil: They had absolutely nothing, like there was nothing.

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Phil: I take that back.

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Phil: There was a magazine called PlayStation 5 that had a picture of the PlayStation 5 controller on the front, and a tagline that says, everything you need to know about the PlayStation 5 controller.

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Phil: And of course, this is two weeks after the actual console has been revealed.

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Phil: And it was about 30 pages long and $17.

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Phil: And so I was just like...

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Tom: So it was more so an advertising pamphlet by the sense of it.

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Phil: Yeah, for $17.

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Phil: But, you know, in positive news, in the small amount of time I have been able to play video games, I've been really quite enjoying it.

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Phil: And I know that we've played a couple of games in common recently, one of which was given away for free on Epic Games called Sludge Life.

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Phil: Now, you're going to have to lead on this one, because I don't know too much about who made it or anything about the backstory.

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Tom: Well, the first thing to mention about Sludge Life, which I have found to be lacking in most coverage of the game, but the soundtrack is by Dose One.

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Tom: And I'm sure you have heard of Dose One and are familiar with his work.

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Phil: Well, he has a very...

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Phil: I can see why you would like him, because he has a very...

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Phil: How would you say it?

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Phil: He's a style that relies heavily on wordplay or just speaking, and he has an interesting voice himself.

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Phil: And I've often wondered if he's got a hearing impairment of some kind in the way that he modifies his voice.

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Phil: But like all good rappers, it works to great effect.

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Phil: And he has a very...

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Tom: And interestingly in this, usually in most of his work, he's got a very high-pitched grating voice.

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Tom: But in Sludge Life, in the few songs in the game where there is any rapping, it is in the DJ screw tape style of slowed down, very deep vocals.

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Phil: Which kind of matches with the visuals of the game, I think.

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Tom: Absolutely.

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Tom: But he is one of the most important indie rappers.

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Tom: He was a co-founder of Anticon, which was the biggest indie rap slash underground rap label of the second wave of it outside of definitive juxt slash deaf juxt.

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Tom: So it's pretty surprising that no one seems to have picked up on this as being a significant thing about it.

00:07:31.900 --> 00:07:46.160

Tom: And certainly a lot of reviews mention how great the soundtrack is, and they will mention who made it, but not his history as one of the most important indie rappers.

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Tom: And he was in Cloud Dead as well, and deep puddle dynamics to very important rap groups.

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Tom: And I have to give a shout out to Bugsy, who put me on to Cloud Dead because he mentioned it when he saw that I was listening to Eskimo by The Residents, a band we've mentioned on here before, and said that it was very similar to that, which is something I don't think many people would notice, but the fake Eskimo speech of Eskimo by The Residents is indeed quite similar to the rapping style on Cloud Dead.

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Tom: And there are obviously similarities in the ambient rap beat style compared to the ambient rock style of The Residents.

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Phil: So the name of the artist is Doseone, that's D-O-S-E-O-N-E.

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Phil: And in looking up this game, I'm just going to read the description of it, but most importantly, and I did say more importantly, the developer is actually listed as Terry Velman and Doseone.

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Phil: So Doseone actually gets a development credit on it.

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Phil: If the game is published, it's no surprise by Devolver Digital, and it's available on PC and Nintendo Switch.

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Phil: So I'm just going to read the description.

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Phil: It's here because it's pretty good.

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Phil: Sludge Life is a first-person, vandalism-centric stroll through a polluted island full of cranky idiots and a vibe so thick you can taste it.

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Phil: Roam a tiny island, stuck on a sludge-covered planet as an upcoming tagger ghost.

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Phil: And that's, so it's first person.

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Tom: So we basically don't need to comment on that.

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Phil: Do anything.

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Phil: No, I mean, that's it right there.

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Phil: I gave it a 7.3 out of 10.

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Phil: How about you?

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Tom: Well, I will have to get the dice out to rate it.

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Tom: And the dice is fittingly a vomitous sort of green colour.

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Tom: But before we do that, what wasn't mentioned other than that it was vandalism-centric was much about the gameplay.

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Tom: And essentially, it is basically a platforming, first person platforming game where the focus is more so on exploration and figuring out how to get things than it is on the actual platforming part of the game.

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Tom: The platforming is very janky at first.

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Tom: It required a fair bit of fiddling around with the mouse sensitivity to get it to a reasonably playable state.

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Tom: But once I did...

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Tom: What?

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Phil: A first person platformer that's somewhat janky?

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Phil: How could this be?

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Phil: I thought they'd mastered this.

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Tom: Which isn't at all janky.

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Phil: No, it's not, but it's also a lot on rails, secretly.

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Tom: I don't think it actually is.

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Tom: When you actually go around exploring and attempting to be as fast as possible in Mirror's Edge, I don't think it is on rails at all.

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Tom: I think that is a slanderous statement.

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Phil: I just thought that there were these massive hitboxes in Mirror's Edge that if you could get your body into, they'd prepare you a little bit around and into the next part, and then you had to jump and hit the next hitbox.

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Tom: There is that to some degree, but I think you were exaggerating it slightly.

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Phil: Well, it's not on rails.

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Phil: It's jumped from rail to rail.

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Phil: Anyway, so you were able to get this working properly after you mucked around with your mouse?

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Tom: Yes, I was indeed.

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Tom: The interesting thing about the platforming is, unlike Mirror's Edge, it does not signpost everything to the same obnoxious degree that gets in the way of the aesthetic.

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Tom: There is certainly signposting, but a lot of the details on how the platforming works isn't really signposted at all.

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Tom: So for instance, there's a climbing mechanic where you are not just jumping up and onto things, but if you have the door of a crate in front of you and it has the bars, you can actually climb along them.

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Tom: And little details like that aren't really explained, which I thought was to its betterment rather than detriment, because it kept things more interesting and it gave it more of a puzzle-solving sense, even though there are only two or three puzzles in the game.

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Tom: But those two or three puzzles in the game, again, I think deserve a lot of credit.

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Tom: They are not at all explained, but how you actually solve them is very, very clever.

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Tom: And once you figure it out, it is extremely satisfying.

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Phil: Was there one where you have to do something with a large piece of celery?

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Phil: Or was that a dream I had?

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Phil: Or was it large carrot?

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Tom: I think that may have been a dream.

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Phil: Okay, with a crane?

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Phil: Crane was involved in some manner?

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Tom: There was a saddle.

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Tom: Well, there are cranes in the game that you can climb to the top of and jump off and use a glider that is one of the items that you find in the game.

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Tom: To fly around in.

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Phil: How would you describe the visual pastiche of the game?

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Tom: A very cartoony visual style.

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Tom: The tradition of indie comics, I would say.

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Phil: Yeah, it's not cartoon-like, but it's got a sort of a fishbowl filter the whole time.

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Phil: So it's sort of...

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Tom: It's more so of a pixelated filter.

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Phil: Yeah.

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Tom: To make it a very low res.

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Phil: Right.

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Phil: And it sort of looks in some manner like a PlayStation 1 game, like Gran Turismo 1, where everything's sort of a bit fluid.

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Phil: But in a way.

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Tom: Exactly.

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Tom: And if you alter the config file, or just look it up on YouTube, essentially the graphics are cell shaded, but there is a filter over it to pixelate everything.

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Phil: That's what I figured.

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Phil: Yeah.

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Phil: I figured as such.

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Tom: And personally, I think the filter greatly improves the visual style, adding to the aesthetic of the experience.

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Phil: It's what you want with a video game.

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Phil: I mean, you see it in motion, and it immediately underscores some of the themes of the games, but it also gives it a very unique identity.

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Phil: I mean, like, you know, there's some games you look at and it could be anything.

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Phil: This particular game, there's no question that once you've associated it with Sludge Life, you could see any frame from that game and go, that's Sludge Life.

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Tom: Absolutely.

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Phil: It does have a vandalism bent to it.

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Phil: I mean, that is pretty much the point of the game, right?

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Tom: Essentially, the goal of the game is to, in terms of the story, to escape the island, and you can escape the island without doing much graffiti or potentially any graffiti at all, because you have to get to a certain area and steal something to be able to escape.

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Tom: Another ending you can also theoretically get to without doing any graffiti, but the best ending of the game, which is known as the weird ending, to get that you do need to hit all the graffiti spots in the game.

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Tom: I think there are 100 in total.

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Phil: Have you got to the end of the game?

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Tom: Yes, I have.

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Tom: I have 100%ed it.

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Phil: So you've got all 100 vandalism marks.

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Tom: Yes, and also all the other side things as well.

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Phil: As you go through the game, does the vandalism change or is it the same throughout?

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Tom: It's the same throughout, but a couple of them require some reasonable feats of platforming as well as reasonable feats of puzzle solving, at least two or three.

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Phil: If they had added different modes of vandalism, like stencils or whatever, would that have hurt the game, you think, or taken away from it?

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Tom: I think the focus is, rather than, say, in getting up, I think the focus here is more so on the platforming than the end point of the graffiti.

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Tom: And I also think it fits better the style of the game that it is about tagging and best throw-ups rather than doing pieces and that sort of thing.

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Phil: Yeah, yeah.

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Phil: A lot of attention, in fact, pretty much all the attention from anyone on this game has been the use of drugs and being under the influence of drugs.

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Phil: I don't know, it didn't seem to...

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Phil: I thought the whole game was already, you know, in a way, a lucid dream kind of thing.

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Phil: So I didn't really think that that added or detracted too much from the game or was a major point.

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Phil: But as the game developed, I mean, that could have been quite good in terms of hallucination.

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Phil: In fact, I mean, one of the mechanics that I found was it helped you navigate upwards and see your surrounds a little bit better, so you could try to figure out how to get to the next part.

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Phil: Did they do...

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Tom: Yes, I thought that was actually, on several occasions to me, the hallucinations where you have an outer body experience and can navigate around was actually very useful.

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Tom: So I thought that was nicely worked into the gameplay.

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Phil: Do you think there was a message or a theme there?

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Phil: You know, I mean about the use of drugs and how it can give you different perspectives and superior perspectives?

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Tom: Undoubtedly.

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Phil: What did you think about the...

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Phil: It's a polluted island, and it's full of workers who are on strike.

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Phil: Those are the people that you're interacting with.

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Phil: There are other people there, fantastical figures as well.

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Tom: There are other taggers and just residents as well, because there is a block of flats, for instance, and there are also people working at restaurants who are not on strike.

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Tom: The strike is specifically about the sludge-collecting industrial activities, I believe.

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Phil: Okay, so for how far into the game?

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Phil: Because I was only about two or two and a half hours into it.

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Phil: How far into the game do you get out of the Sludge Island, or are you always on the Sludge Island?

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Tom: Well, the end goal of the game is to escape the Sludge Island, so you are always on the Sludge Island until you escape, at which point the game ends.

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Phil: Okay, so when do you interact with the restaurant people?

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Tom: Well, the restaurant people are right near the starting area.

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Phil: Oh yeah, you're right, there's a fast food outlet.

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Tom: Yeah, exactly.

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Phil: Yeah, okay.

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Tom: And the block of flats is just next to it.

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Phil: Yep, yep, you're right, yep, okay.

00:18:52.260 --> 00:18:55.260

Phil: Alright, well, anything else about this game?

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Tom: Well, the characters, I think, were great little short skits and added a lot of texture to the experience that really made it more enjoyable than it otherwise would have been.

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Tom: And, for instance, just as a simple example of the quality of humour involved here, and I don't mean that sarcastically, one of the characters you interact with is a B-boy and his friend, and his friend challenged the B-boy that he would not be able to spin on his head for a long period of time.

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Tom: And he has been spinning on his head for the past week, and throughout the game, he's just there spinning on his head, which I found quite amusing.

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Phil: Now, is it a permanent world?

00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:58.120

Phil: So if you go back to that area, is he still spinning?

00:19:58.440 --> 00:19:59.140

Tom: Yes, he is.

00:19:59.760 --> 00:20:07.340

Phil: And I've got to say, when I first played this, I was really bummed out because I thought it was a roguelike, because as soon as you die, you go back to where you started.

00:20:07.360 --> 00:20:20.040

Phil: But as you progress through the game, you come across these portals, for want of a better word, and you can always, what do you say, beam yourself to either of those save points basically.

00:20:20.060 --> 00:20:22.440

Tom: Yep, and you keep all your progress as well.

00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:26.540

Phil: Yeah, so it's not a roguelike at all, which is what I was really concerned about.

00:20:27.520 --> 00:20:31.660

Phil: But in terms of its length, how long was it from start to finish?

00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:34.680

Phil: You obviously completed it, so you're going to have a different experience than most.

00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:45.360

Tom: I think to 100% it, it was probably about three or four hours, maybe longer.

00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:54.700

Tom: Epic Games says six hours that I was playing, but that includes, of course, some time with it just left open and so on and so forth.

00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:59.360

Tom: So let's just say four to five hours to do absolutely everything.

00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:02.380

Phil: And I picked it up when it was free.

00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:06.640

Phil: It's obviously not free now, but certainly worth...

00:21:06.820 --> 00:21:07.780

Tom: I think it still is free.

00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:12.880

Tom: I'm pretty sure that it is, in fact, free for one year after its release.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:14.700

Phil: Oh, OK.

00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:15.900

Phil: That's great.

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:24.560

Phil: I know I picked up Stranger Things 3, the game, off of Epic when it was up there, and I thought that had been taken down.

00:21:24.580 --> 00:21:29.360

Tom: Yeah, those free games, they come and go.

00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:31.560

Tom: That's part of their standard promotion.

00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:42.000

Tom: Yes, the free sale ends on the 29th of the 5th in 2021 at 1am.

00:21:43.260 --> 00:21:43.980

Phil: So get on it.

00:21:44.040 --> 00:21:45.540

Phil: And it's also available on Switch.

00:21:46.220 --> 00:21:47.880

Phil: Do you want to give it a score?

00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:52.120

Tom: I will have to get the dice, and then I will indeed give it a score.

00:21:52.140 --> 00:22:12.260

Tom: Actually, the last thing I will add, just again as an example of the commitment to aesthetic quality and humour throughout the game, when you are gliding along with the glider, if you fart, you speed up a little bit.

00:22:13.560 --> 00:22:31.220

Tom: And the item that helps you find all the graffiti spots is literally the eyes of a master graffiti person or rather a king, I believe would be the correct terminology.

00:22:32.420 --> 00:22:33.680

Phil: Like a real life one or...?

00:22:34.800 --> 00:22:35.660

Tom: A graffiti king.

00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.820

Phil: I'm going to say Devolver, man, I did not think they were going to be around for long.

00:22:42.840 --> 00:22:49.840

Phil: They've been around for 11 years now, and just looking through their gameography, they've been a force for good, man.

00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:53.200

Phil: They've done great work, and they've obviously got a very distinctive...

00:22:54.040 --> 00:23:05.280

Phil: They've got an attitude about the kind of games they want to make and back and publish, and I'd say that Sludge Life fits in with the Devolver mode quite well.

00:23:06.320 --> 00:23:09.640

Phil: But yeah, okay, well great, if you want to go get your die.

00:23:09.820 --> 00:23:15.840

Tom: And their PR people several years ago were a pleasure to deal with as well.

00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.100

Phil: You had some sort of controversy with them, didn't you?

00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:24.040

Tom: Was it with Devolver or with the Warhammer people?

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.540

Phil: No, you had a controversy with the Devolver people.

00:23:28.040 --> 00:23:28.700

Tom: What was it?

00:23:29.560 --> 00:23:31.120

Phil: Well, I'll have to look it up.

00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:32.160

Phil: It's somewhere on the site.

00:23:32.180 --> 00:23:34.040

Phil: But anyway, there was controversy.

00:23:34.060 --> 00:23:38.680

Phil: I will tell people about Stranger Things 3 The Game if you want to go get your dice.

00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:40.940

Tom: My dice is here and ready.

00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:43.220

Phil: Oh, well, you've saved our listeners.

00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:45.100

Phil: It's a point and click and it's not too bad.

00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:46.960

Phil: It's certainly good enough to be free.

00:23:47.760 --> 00:23:50.600

Phil: And if you've watched the series, it's true to it.

00:23:51.520 --> 00:23:56.580

Phil: I finally watched the last episode of season 3 that I had abandoned for several months.

00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:58.520

Phil: And I was happy with the finale.

00:23:58.540 --> 00:24:03.420

Phil: It actually improved it, because season 3 was pretty average.

00:24:04.260 --> 00:24:17.840

Tom: I watched the first season and the first few minutes of the second season, and I gave up then, because I was not a huge fan of the original.

00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:30.340

Tom: But one thing it did have going for it was that it was not just a pastiche, nor was it entirely based on nostalgia.

00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:39.880

Tom: And the first 10 minutes or so of the first episode of the second season seemed to consist entirely of pastiche and nostalgia.

00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.740

Phil: Yeah, yeah, I tell you which doesn't work.

00:24:43.420 --> 00:24:49.820

Phil: Ready Player One finally came on streaming this last week, I think, on Netflix.

00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:52.700

Phil: And it's a game that I was interested in seeing.

00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:54.240

Phil: A game.

00:24:54.260 --> 00:24:55.900

Phil: It's a movie I was interested in seeing.

00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.080

Phil: And oh my god, it's terrible.

00:24:58.360 --> 00:24:59.320

Phil: It is so bad.

00:24:59.340 --> 00:25:03.520

Phil: And there were so many times where I almost bought it just to see it, you know.

00:25:05.320 --> 00:25:10.180

Phil: And you talk about just making 80s references for the sake of making 80s references.

00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.960

Phil: It is, it's really very poor.

00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.060

Phil: It's a very poor movie.

00:25:15.080 --> 00:25:16.260

Phil: But you know, check it out.

00:25:16.280 --> 00:25:16.980

Phil: It's worth seeing.

00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:19.860

Tom: The book had a little bit more going for it than that, right?

00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:23.300

Phil: Yeah, the book was, you know, it's young adult fiction.

00:25:24.520 --> 00:25:32.120

Phil: And you know, it was okay, but again, you'd want to have come from that era to really get into it.

00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:33.760

Phil: And it's a harmless book.

00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.760

Phil: It's something you could probably read in a day.

00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:40.560

Phil: And yeah, it's much better.

00:25:41.020 --> 00:25:49.500

Phil: It's popular to trash the book now, but at the time, there's not a lot of books that are set, you know, relating to video games.

00:25:49.560 --> 00:25:51.620

Phil: And in that respect, I thought it was good.

00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:58.240

Phil: Okay, so Sludge Life, I didn't finish it, so I'm not going to give it a score.

00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:01.420

Tom: Well, you said a moment ago you gave it a 7 out of 10.

00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:05.100

Phil: A 7.3, and that's because I was reading the Metacritic description of it.

00:26:06.060 --> 00:26:07.840

Phil: Which is also who gave it a...

00:26:07.860 --> 00:26:08.920

Phil: They gave it a 73.

00:26:09.040 --> 00:26:11.340

Phil: That's the aggregate score from all the Metacritics.

00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:14.920

Tom: Why don't you rate the little blurb that it has?

00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:18.700

Phil: I think the blurb, I'd give a 8 out of 10.

00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:20.800

Tom: I agree completely.

00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:30.220

Tom: And I actually think this, to me, has taken the crown of getting up as the best graffiti game.

00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:42.300

Tom: And I would also argue that the soundtrack is better in the sense that it is a more cohesive whole.

00:26:42.860 --> 00:26:46.760

Tom: But there are certainly some great songs on getting up as well.

00:26:47.280 --> 00:26:49.640

Tom: Basically every song is at least a very good song.

00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:53.520

Tom: But here is the dice roll that we've all been waiting for.

00:26:55.560 --> 00:27:03.540

Tom: And Sludge Life, the best graffiti game, receives a 3 out of 10.

00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:05.280

Phil: Oh, man.

00:27:05.300 --> 00:27:07.800

Phil: That die is unkind.

00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:09.120

Phil: Unkind.

00:27:09.140 --> 00:27:10.520

Phil: So what other graffiti games you got?

00:27:10.540 --> 00:27:13.020

Phil: You got Jet Set Radio, Jet Grind Radio, rather.

00:27:13.220 --> 00:27:13.740

Phil: Same thing.

00:27:14.760 --> 00:27:18.000

Phil: I'd say Grand Theft Auto, San Andreas.

00:27:19.520 --> 00:27:19.980

Tom: Did that...

00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:22.600

Tom: Yeah, that did have a small graffiti mechanic.

00:27:24.980 --> 00:27:26.700

Phil: It was a great, great one.

00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:33.200

Phil: Again, it didn't get very complicated, but it was one of the collectibles in the game if you went around tagging at certain places.

00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:39.400

Phil: So I'd say my favorite game would probably be Getting Up.

00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:41.280

Phil: Contents Under Pressure.

00:27:41.300 --> 00:27:41.820

Phil: Mega Cup.

00:27:42.040 --> 00:27:42.860

Phil: That's what we called it.

00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:44.940

Phil: What was it called Mega Cup for?

00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:46.880

Phil: Oh, Mark Echoes Getting Up.

00:27:47.080 --> 00:27:48.180

Phil: Contents Under Pressure.

00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:48.640

Phil: Yeah.

00:27:49.220 --> 00:27:50.120

Phil: Alright, very good.

00:27:52.300 --> 00:27:58.220

Phil: Now, we sort of finalized Genova Chen's Sky game with a review a couple of episodes ago.

00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:01.080

Phil: I'm still waiting for it to come out for Switch.

00:28:01.460 --> 00:28:03.460

Phil: I'm told that it will come out in summer.

00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:09.020

Phil: Which, for a global release, is a really useless descriptor as to when that game is going to come out.

00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:11.460

Phil: Because I presume that means...

00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:18.520

Tom: Given that it took nearly a year for the Android version to come out, I would not be holding my breath.

00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.080

Phil: Well, when it comes out, I'm hoping to get a physical copy of it.

00:28:24.100 --> 00:28:25.800

Phil: Surely there will be a physical copy of it.

00:28:25.800 --> 00:28:26.500

Phil: I really hope.

00:28:26.520 --> 00:28:29.040

Phil: I hope it's not one of those limited run things.

00:28:29.100 --> 00:28:31.820

Phil: But anyway, I'm looking forward to it based on your hype.

00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:37.280

Phil: But there's a new chapter or new episode or they've done something, a new drop.

00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:43.260

Tom: Yep, a new season is releasing tomorrow at the time of recording.

00:28:43.280 --> 00:28:46.800

Phil: And this is Sky, Children of Light, available right now.

00:28:46.820 --> 00:28:50.240

Phil: It's only available on the mobile platforms, right?

00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:54.960

Tom: Correct, it is on the App Store and Android, I believe.

00:28:55.940 --> 00:29:04.020

Tom: And the latest season is the season of Sanctuary, which I played in the beta.

00:29:05.140 --> 00:29:30.200

Tom: And I think we talked about the previous season, and I've already forgotten what it was called, but that was probably the best season since the original in terms of its narrative, and probably the best season in terms of its gameplay since the prior season, which also added a new area.

00:29:31.460 --> 00:29:39.940

Tom: This season also adds a new area, the theme as far as the story is concerned, and also what the outfits look like.

00:29:40.300 --> 00:29:54.280

Tom: I'm not sure they really fit the style of Sky all that much, which is very much in the vein of Journey, with a few more serious moments.

00:29:54.300 --> 00:29:57.660

Tom: There's certainly more humour in Sky than there is Journey.

00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:10.720

Tom: But here, basically, the story is about, as far as one can tell, a group of former spirits on holiday, and it's much more light-hearted.

00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:15.000

Tom: And the items are much more real world.

00:30:15.020 --> 00:30:25.200

Tom: There are sunglasses, for example, and what is like a sort of Jetsons-style science fiction outfit.

00:30:25.220 --> 00:30:31.220

Tom: So that isn't real life, but that is also not necessarily in line with the general aesthetic of Sky.

00:30:31.540 --> 00:30:37.020

Tom: But the area itself is the most ambitious yet.

00:30:37.120 --> 00:30:39.980

Tom: It is basically, it's also the biggest.

00:30:39.980 --> 00:30:53.180

Tom: It is a massive tropical island surrounded by a few small archipelagos that you can fly to, as well as some floating islands in the air.

00:30:53.520 --> 00:31:21.720

Tom: So while the narrative aspects to it, and also the items that you get are a bit disappointing compared to prior seasons, the actual area is really big and makes for some interesting flying, because you have to get between really big distances between islands in the sky and archipelagos and the main island.

00:31:22.420 --> 00:31:34.680

Tom: So for people who have been playing for a while, it is more interesting than most of the new areas, and there's also more to do on the way between areas as well.

00:31:34.700 --> 00:31:45.160

Tom: And the main island has a lot of plants to burn and big candles, which I hope will carry over to the main season.

00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:59.900

Tom: They're currently in the version of the island that is in the main game that a few people have been able to get to, but whether when it is properly released, they will still be there, will of course not be confirmed until it is actually released.

00:32:00.280 --> 00:32:13.600

Tom: So to recap in terms of the narrative and items, it's a bit disappointing, but as an area to explore, it is probably the best additional area to the game yet.

00:32:14.520 --> 00:32:20.700

Phil: And certainly the expectation would be that they're going to populate it with more staff.

00:32:21.380 --> 00:32:21.920

Tom: What do you mean?

00:32:22.360 --> 00:32:24.020

Phil: I mean, they've built this great area.

00:32:24.040 --> 00:32:25.880

Phil: You're saying that it's pretty sparse.

00:32:26.060 --> 00:32:26.520

Tom: No, no, no.

00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:40.700

Tom: I said the area itself has a lot in it and is an interesting area to explore, looking for light and also doing the spirits' stories and collecting their memory fragments.

00:32:41.060 --> 00:32:52.380

Tom: But in terms of the spirits' actual stories, as a story, not as a thing to do, it is a bit disappointing compared to prior seasons.

00:32:53.040 --> 00:32:59.160

Tom: And it doesn't fit necessarily the aesthetic and tone of Sky all that well.

00:32:59.560 --> 00:33:12.960

Phil: Do you think maybe they had a different team, different team members or a different team working on this expansion, so to speak, while, you know, other people are working on, you know, maybe getting the game to different platforms and all that sort of thing?

00:33:12.980 --> 00:33:13.620

Tom: They may well have.

00:33:13.840 --> 00:33:14.180

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:33:15.460 --> 00:33:27.220

Phil: But I'm hopeful that this might be in preparation for when they release it on the Switch, and it's kind of like, you know, having as much content as possible right from the start.

00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:37.820

Phil: Do you think if, having said that, do you think if they had all of this extra content that they've been adding and adding and adding right from the start that would necessarily have been a better game?

00:33:38.780 --> 00:33:48.100

Phil: Or does the game benefit from having a long tail where you're slowly, you know, getting these new things to interact with to keep you interested in the game?

00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:54.800

Tom: I think it definitely benefits from having these as additions as you're going along.

00:33:55.440 --> 00:34:11.300

Tom: And I don't think it is necessarily a big issue for new players because the areas that they add they remain there and the only thing you miss out on is some of the items.

00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:19.620

Tom: And the main game itself is a four or five hour experience to do everything in.

00:34:20.140 --> 00:34:37.620

Tom: So I think if they started out with this, it would have been I think a bit of a slog to get through and you would have less of a focus on experiencing the main game which still has the best stories and that sort of thing.

00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:44.080

Tom: So I think it's good that one, if you've been playing for a long time, they're giving you new stuff to do.

00:34:44.680 --> 00:34:54.740

Tom: And two, I think it's good that they're not necessarily taking away from the main narrative for new players.

00:34:55.880 --> 00:35:12.160

Tom: And it allows them to strike a pretty good balance between an MMORPG structure and a more narrative focused game which is one of the unique achievements of Sky.

00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:17.260

Phil: Okay, so is that all you have to say about Sky, Children of Light?

00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.820

Phil: What was the name of the new expansion?

00:35:19.300 --> 00:35:21.660

Tom: Season of Sanctuary, I believe.

00:35:21.720 --> 00:35:22.780

Phil: Season of Sanctuary.

00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:27.540

Phil: And do they communicate much about how often they come out with these?

00:35:27.560 --> 00:35:32.720

Phil: Is it a seasonal type thing, or is it really just an out of the blue, here you go?

00:35:33.040 --> 00:35:41.120

Tom: Well, they usually have a bit of hyping up for it, and it also gets into the beta before it gets into the main game.

00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:50.460

Tom: But the actual distance between them and also how long they last, there is usually not that much consistency.

00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:54.680

Tom: So the last season, for instance, I think, lasted two months.

00:35:54.700 --> 00:35:57.320

Tom: Some of the seasons have only been about 20 days.

00:35:59.660 --> 00:36:03.920

Tom: And I think it's been about a month or so since the last season ended.

00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:05.140

Phil: Wow, okay.

00:36:05.160 --> 00:36:05.920

Phil: So it's pretty quick.

00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:10.140

Phil: Their obviously engagement is a massive thing with these kinds of games.

00:36:10.140 --> 00:36:14.820

Phil: So they've got to keep, you know, keep you interested in dropping new things.

00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:18.360

Tom: I have technically finished it.

00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:23.580

Tom: So this is a rating, another dice roll for the beta.

00:36:24.220 --> 00:36:25.420

Phil: All right, let's see.

00:36:25.780 --> 00:36:26.960

Tom: For the record, it's not a rating.

00:36:27.020 --> 00:36:29.640

Tom: It's not a rating of the released version, but the beta version.

00:36:32.600 --> 00:36:33.880

Tom: A 7 out of 10.

00:36:35.060 --> 00:36:41.040

Tom: So significantly better than Sludge Life, the best graffiti game ever.

00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:49.280

Phil: I'll tell you what isn't the best graffiti game ever, and that is a game we played called Death and Taxes.

00:36:49.340 --> 00:36:52.820

Phil: This is another work simulator on the PC.

00:36:54.860 --> 00:37:01.860

Phil: It has a demo that really doesn't do the game much of a benefit, I thought.

00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:04.240

Phil: I thought the demo for it was actually quite...

00:37:06.160 --> 00:37:14.520

Phil: Well, a good demo to me gives you an idea as to most aspects of the game which should leave you wanting for more.

00:37:14.860 --> 00:37:18.840

Phil: But in this demo, they gave you a very limited range of things that you could do.

00:37:22.100 --> 00:37:30.660

Phil: And this game was available as a part of the itch.io offering of 14, 1600 games or whatever else.

00:37:30.660 --> 00:37:32.340

Phil: But I played it on Steam.

00:37:32.640 --> 00:37:33.860

Phil: You played it on Steam also?

00:37:34.660 --> 00:37:35.360

Tom: Yes, I did.

00:37:36.200 --> 00:37:48.260

Phil: And it's a narrative-based game where basically you turn up at an office and your job is to basically select who lives and who dies.

00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:51.260

Phil: You work for Fate, is that right?

00:37:51.620 --> 00:37:52.480

Tom: That is correct.

00:37:53.020 --> 00:37:54.340

Phil: You don't work for the Grim Reaper?

00:37:54.660 --> 00:37:57.420

Tom: No, you are a Grim Reaper.

00:37:58.040 --> 00:38:05.460

Tom: One of many working in Fate's office where who lives and dies is decided by Grim Reapers.

00:38:06.160 --> 00:38:13.260

Phil: And it's a game, I don't know if they've done many more of them, by a company called Placeholder Gameworks.

00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:15.240

Phil: This seems to be their only game.

00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:17.160

Tom: It may well be.

00:38:17.240 --> 00:38:18.440

Tom: I think it is, in fact.

00:38:19.180 --> 00:38:24.620

Phil: And for the most part, the game is received quite positively by those that played it.

00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:28.080

Phil: I had heard a couple of different podcasters talking about it.

00:38:29.120 --> 00:38:33.840

Phil: So it mirrors, the actual playing of it mirrors Paper's Please quite closely.

00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:35.360

Phil: You sit down at a desk.

00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.540

Phil: There's things you can put on your desk.

00:38:38.540 --> 00:38:42.080

Phil: Your boss, Fate, will give you some rules.

00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:47.200

Phil: So some days he might just say today you've got to kill three people.

00:38:48.640 --> 00:38:53.040

Tom: And the rules also get more, slightly more complex, but still very simple.

00:38:53.060 --> 00:38:59.240

Tom: So you might have to kill people who work in the grocery industry, for instance.

00:39:00.020 --> 00:39:04.080

Tom: So you then have to read through their profile and look for what their job is.

00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:07.400

Tom: Or it might be, you have to kill people that are related to it.

00:39:07.420 --> 00:39:11.800

Tom: So you then have to look at people that have corollary jobs and so forth.

00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:18.180

Tom: So, while it is very simple, it does get slightly more complex as it goes along.

00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:23.880

Phil: And yes, so in this very simple case, you might get six portfolios put in front of you.

00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:32.940

Phil: And you have to decide, okay, well, you've been told, spare anyone who works in, is related to the real estate industry today.

00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:42.120

Phil: So you've got to really read into them a little bit because it might, the details, it won't just say this person works in real estate or this person's a realtor.

00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:47.120

Phil: Sometimes you have to read into the details and that sort of thing.

00:39:47.160 --> 00:39:54.340

Phil: So someone who might be a lawyer as his header, but then when you read it, it says something like he specializes in property law or something like that.

00:39:54.600 --> 00:39:56.800

Phil: Now that's a completely made up scenario.

00:39:58.300 --> 00:40:16.800

Phil: And so basically, you take the papers and you put all the people you're going to spare over there, you put all the people you're going to kill over there, and at the end of the day, you go up to the top floor to see Fate, where Fate will evaluate your work on the basis of how well you follow the instructions or not.

00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:20.480

Phil: And then you get currency.

00:40:20.500 --> 00:40:24.160

Phil: So you get paid for your day's work.

00:40:24.600 --> 00:40:30.960

Phil: If you accumulate enough money in the basement, there's a dealer down there where you can buy various things.

00:40:31.660 --> 00:40:32.720

Tom: A pirate merchant.

00:40:33.260 --> 00:40:36.680

Phil: Yes, yes, and you can buy various things.

00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:42.000

Phil: Some of them are just goo guys for your desk or from your home.

00:40:42.560 --> 00:40:46.820

Phil: You live in a small room somewhere between the boss and the office.

00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:57.320

Tom: Most of the items are just decorative, but a few of them actually have a function in your day-to-day activities.

00:40:58.780 --> 00:41:05.340

Tom: So some of them, for instance, might reveal information about what you've done and that sort of thing.

00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:16.600

Tom: One of the items as well, for instance, allows you to erase your stamp so that you can change your mind on whether someone should live or die.

00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:20.720

Phil: Yep, and then what about the items that you can use in your home?

00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:22.380

Phil: Could you elaborate on some of those?

00:41:23.780 --> 00:41:27.460

Tom: Were there any items that you could use in your home other than outfits in the mirror?

00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:28.840

Phil: That's about it, yeah.

00:41:32.220 --> 00:41:34.180

Phil: And they didn't really have any impact, did they?

00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:54.580

Tom: I was really disappointed because we should say at the end of each day, you talk to Fate, who like a Bond villain has a pet cat, and this will be a minor spoiler, but at some point, Fate isn't there, and so your interview, your daily interview, takes place with the cat.

00:41:54.960 --> 00:42:06.480

Tom: And I had the cat outfit, and I was hoping that this would allow me to understand what the cat was saying, but it didn't, so that was tremendously disappointing.

00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.780

Tom: So essentially, the outfits are indeed completely useless.

00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:16.980

Phil: I've got to say, I was pretty deep into the game, and I like being a gamer, right?

00:42:17.060 --> 00:42:22.140

Phil: If the game gives me rules and something to do, that's what I'm going to try and do.

00:42:22.600 --> 00:42:25.340

Phil: So, you know, surprise, surprise, right?

00:42:26.080 --> 00:42:44.660

Phil: So like when I was playing Papers, Please, you know, the typical example, which is another work simulator, the seminal work simulator of the decade by Lucas Pope, there's this, you know, you're basically letting people, you can decide who comes over the border and who doesn't.

00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:54.380

Phil: And, you know, there's a husband, and he's got all of his paperwork, and it's perfect, but then he tries to bribe you so that you'll let his wife through whose paperwork is forged.

00:42:54.840 --> 00:43:03.760

Phil: And so, of course, you know, when I'm playing a game, I'm doing it in the voice of the character that I'm playing, so, you know, in that instance, it was easy for me.

00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:08.700

Phil: Well, my job is to check paper, and that's about it, and if the papers are wrong, I'm not letting the person in.

00:43:09.160 --> 00:43:11.980

Phil: And so that's how I played Death and Taxes as well.

00:43:12.820 --> 00:43:22.440

Phil: I made sure that I stuck to it, and, you know, they'll do all the stupid stuff, like put sob stories in, or, you know, this person's a really great person, look at all the charity work they do.

00:43:22.460 --> 00:43:28.320

Phil: And I was like, well, that's fine, but they don't work in real estate, so I'm not sparing them, you know?

00:43:28.340 --> 00:43:34.720

Phil: And there was only a few times where I deviated between, you know, who to kill and who not to kill.

00:43:36.580 --> 00:43:48.940

Phil: But when you go up to talk to Fate, he is genuinely disinterested, and it doesn't seem to really matter whether you pay attention to the rules or not at a certain point, or perhaps ever in the game.

00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:53.780

Tom: I think what you do has an effect on what ending you get.

00:43:54.160 --> 00:43:56.960

Phil: Yes, yeah, and there are several endings you can unlock.

00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:07.000

Phil: But like, and then, you know, they do throw some things in there, like, you know, like there was only a couple of times where I killed people because of their occupations.

00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:16.960

Phil: So there was a climate change researcher, and I'm just like, the world doesn't need any more climate change researchers, and what a useless job, you know?

00:44:18.120 --> 00:44:27.420

Phil: If climate change is real, then you researching it isn't going to change anything, and if it's not real, then you're just a waste of space, so I'm killing you, you know?

00:44:28.740 --> 00:44:37.020

Phil: But ultimately, I was really kind of disappointed that none of it really kind of mattered, and obviously that's going to be, you know, there's different endings in everything.

00:44:38.240 --> 00:44:52.880

Phil: But a part of doing these kind of work simulators is if you're doing a good job, you know, there should be some sort of rewards other than going down to the basement talking to a pirate about a new kind of desk lamp or a snow globe.

00:44:54.140 --> 00:45:03.760

Phil: And I really think that ultimately, the game on its own doesn't really warrant replays to go through all of those endings.

00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:05.860

Phil: At least not for me.

00:45:06.580 --> 00:45:18.520

Tom: Well, I certainly won't be replaying it, but I don't really agree that what you were doing didn't make any difference to how the story unfolded and how it ended.

00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:30.860

Tom: What you maybe mean is that there, other than getting fired, which I think is indeed possible, there isn't a fail state, whereas in Papers, Please, there were multiple ones.

00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:31.660

Tom: Is that what you mean?

00:45:32.560 --> 00:45:33.400

Phil: Yes, yeah.

00:45:33.640 --> 00:45:36.180

Phil: I mean, you're going to get to the end in this game regardless.

00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:44.300

Tom: Yeah, it's very difficult to be fired.

00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:46.880

Phil: Yes, yeah.

00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:53.500

Phil: In fact, I didn't even know that was an option, but that may be because I was such a rule follower, you know, for the first two-thirds of the game.

00:45:54.260 --> 00:46:10.200

Phil: I've got to say, though, you know, killing the climate change researcher has got the game into some trouble, because you sent me the most profoundly hilarious link to a thread, which must have been on the Steam community.

00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:11.280

Tom: It was, indeed.

00:46:11.300 --> 00:46:22.500

Phil: Between the developer and people who had an issue with the kinds of people that you can kill in this game, and they just assumed that the developers were some insane right-wing people with a political agenda.

00:46:22.520 --> 00:46:26.600

Tom: No, no, no, no, they assumed they were insane left-wing people with a political agenda.

00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:27.500

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:46:27.520 --> 00:46:28.420

Phil: See, I just don't...

00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:32.580

Phil: I don't see much of a distinction anymore, but...

00:46:33.380 --> 00:46:37.600

Phil: and it was hilarious, genuinely hilarious.

00:46:38.640 --> 00:46:42.640

Phil: But, I mean, what was the developer's response?

00:46:42.660 --> 00:46:44.000

Phil: Basically, that other people...

00:46:44.020 --> 00:46:46.120

Phil: he threw someone else under the bus, didn't he?

00:46:46.620 --> 00:46:49.760

Phil: So there was a lot of people had to write those job descriptions.

00:46:49.780 --> 00:46:50.800

Phil: You know, it wasn't just me.

00:46:51.080 --> 00:47:01.860

Tom: I think his response, I can't remember what it was, but it was perfectly reasoned and fair, and the person they were responding to even took it amiably.

00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:03.240

Phil: Yes, yes.

00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:06.180

Tom: So they responded very well indeed.

00:47:06.200 --> 00:47:22.400

Tom: I think the issue was that essentially killing off certain sorts of people had the logical outcome you would expect, and this was taken to be political bias.

00:47:23.720 --> 00:47:28.440

Phil: Okay, well, look, I think that it's a good first game from that team.

00:47:29.380 --> 00:47:34.060

Phil: They copied Papers, Please, but it wasn't an exact copy.

00:47:34.080 --> 00:47:40.660

Phil: Like, there were elements of it, but there was enough individual, you know, of their own imprint on this game.

00:47:40.940 --> 00:47:50.600

Phil: I think it was just too shallow, ultimately, in terms of the mechanics, and it just didn't click with me.

00:47:52.080 --> 00:48:00.820

Phil: And I know that a big part of it has some ridiculous number of endings, something like 20 different endings, and I just don't know why you would go back and want to see them.

00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:09.680

Phil: The game just wasn't compelling enough, because ultimately, it's you, Fate, and his cat, and the pirate, and the files.

00:48:09.940 --> 00:48:13.480

Phil: And as with Papers, Please, there was some humanity there.

00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:19.360

Phil: It wasn't just the pieces of paper, you know, you actually had to look at the people in addition to their paperwork.

00:48:19.380 --> 00:48:22.220

Phil: So, you know, there was very many different elements there.

00:48:23.180 --> 00:48:26.140

Tom: I would take the complete reverse analysis here.

00:48:26.140 --> 00:48:35.700

Tom: I think the major flaw in the game was not in terms of the characters or narrative, but was in the gameplay itself.

00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:42.340

Tom: And I don't think it really did a good job of copying Papers, Please as well.

00:48:42.600 --> 00:48:53.840

Tom: Papers, Please, other than the extremely tactile, aesthetic quality to the gameplay, in terms of what you were doing, it was significantly more complex.

00:48:53.940 --> 00:48:58.600

Tom: There were many more elements to it, and you had to pay a lot more attention as well.

00:48:58.620 --> 00:49:05.360

Tom: I think that is where the great superiority of Papers, Please comes from.

00:49:06.620 --> 00:49:14.680

Tom: The narrative in Papers, Please is certainly alright too, but I don't think it is really that much better than Death and Taxes.

00:49:14.680 --> 00:49:26.040

Tom: It's just a completely different tone, but the magic of Papers, Please comes from the minute-to-minute gameplay, which is not what is there in Death and Taxes.

00:49:26.060 --> 00:49:35.600

Tom: And I don't think that a fail state would really make a big difference because of the inherent shallowness of the mechanics in the first place.

00:49:37.060 --> 00:49:39.800

Tom: But I ended up enjoying it nevertheless.

00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:44.260

Tom: I think we should move into spoiler territory here.

00:49:45.740 --> 00:49:47.840

Tom: Because I do wonder what...

00:49:48.500 --> 00:49:57.120

Tom: We also should add the basic structure is, before we move into spoilers in terms of the story, is your discussions with fate as you're going along.

00:49:57.540 --> 00:50:26.700

Tom: And if you take it as just an interaction between the character of fate and his own existential crisis, as well as a character that appears in your mirror, who is essentially fomenting a rebellion against fate, I think the story is amusing enough to make the game worth playing, rather than necessarily making the gameplay more complex, even though it is a major flaw.

00:50:26.700 --> 00:50:46.740

Tom: One thing I think that would have made the minute-to-minute gameplay more interesting without having to come up with a better gameplay design would have been more interesting ongoing storylines within the character profiles themselves, because there were a couple of instances of this.

00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:58.460

Tom: For instance, there was a pair of green shoes going around that had an effect on all the people who found it that you could react to, which was very amusing.

00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:00.680

Tom: I wish there had been more things like that.

00:51:00.700 --> 00:51:10.700

Tom: I think that would have made the minute-to-minute experience of it much more enjoyable as you're waiting to find out what's happening next with Fate and his existential crisis.

00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:13.900

Phil: Yeah, I agree with that.

00:51:14.060 --> 00:51:16.300

Phil: I've just been talking about that, though.

00:51:16.340 --> 00:51:25.720

Phil: I was kind of hoping that there would be some coworkers or other grim reapers or maybe in your room where you live.

00:51:25.860 --> 00:51:29.040

Tom: For instance, there was a bar visible and you could never visit it.

00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:34.020

Phil: That's exactly right, which is just painfully tantalising.

00:51:34.420 --> 00:51:36.260

Phil: So a bar would have been great.

00:51:37.180 --> 00:51:45.220

Phil: If they wanted to make it more simple, they could have put a laptop in your room and a grim reaper net was the only thing that you could access.

00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:51.260

Phil: Basically a social network thing for fellow grim reapers or a chat room or something like that.

00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:56.120

Phil: I think that there could have been something else there.

00:51:57.640 --> 00:51:58.160

Tom: Definitely.

00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:00.800

Tom: So let's move into spoilers.

00:52:01.240 --> 00:52:01.540

Phil: Yes.

00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:04.780

Tom: So what ending did you get?

00:52:07.420 --> 00:52:10.980

Phil: Basically the end of the world and it came down to picking between two people.

00:52:12.060 --> 00:52:13.900

Tom: What was the state of the world?

00:52:14.600 --> 00:52:15.180

Phil: Destroyed.

00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:22.900

Tom: Because another complaint on the forum was someone got a destroyed world but thought they shouldn't have.

00:52:23.420 --> 00:52:27.360

Tom: My state of the world, of course, was essentially a utopia.

00:52:27.620 --> 00:52:28.080

Phil: Wow.

00:52:30.220 --> 00:52:31.680

Phil: Because I didn't think there was...

00:52:32.200 --> 00:52:34.440

Phil: See, for me, I was somewhat of a nihilist.

00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:40.940

Phil: I just figured that nothing I did had an impact on the outcome of the world.

00:52:41.580 --> 00:52:51.960

Tom: See, I think perhaps one of the issues with your experience with the game was your own inherent nihilism and hatred of humanity and apathy.

00:52:53.460 --> 00:52:55.640

Phil: Yes, possibly.

00:52:55.660 --> 00:53:01.860

Tom: So perhaps it's to the game's credit that it allowed you to express this and destroy the world.

00:53:01.880 --> 00:53:08.340

Phil: Because my whole point going into the game was I don't really care who lives and dies, and I don't really care.

00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:15.040

Phil: Is there a way where you could pick the kind of people, the researchers, or the scientists?

00:53:15.080 --> 00:53:27.780

Phil: I guess there was, because the profiles would come in front of you and it would be like, this 36-year-old woman is working on a solution to fix the problems in the world, and fate had told me to kill anyone with a science background that day, so I killed them all.

00:53:29.680 --> 00:53:33.380

Phil: So that's probably why the world ended up being destroyed.

00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:37.060

Phil: So I just figured that killing, it didn't matter who I killed and who I didn't kill.

00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:46.160

Tom: So I think that's greatly to the game's credit, particularly given the existential crisis of fate and his growing apathy.

00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:57.880

Phil: Okay, so now that's where it could have been turned around, or perhaps in another realm it is, because if I was doing exactly what fate was saying, now it was pretty clear that fate had lost interest in it.

00:53:57.900 --> 00:54:00.980

Phil: He was trying to write a book and doing all this other stuff and goes...

00:54:01.340 --> 00:54:03.780

Tom: And just let me say this before I forget it.

00:54:04.120 --> 00:54:28.940

Tom: At the end, I killed fate, and this was taken as being a morally bad thing, but I would just like to point out that once you usurp the highest status individual above you, it is very important as a status display to, if not kill that person, at least kill their followers and some other people surrounding you.

00:54:29.940 --> 00:54:39.400

Tom: So from a pragmatic viewpoint, I did the right thing, but my main motivation here was actually as euthanasia, because this guy...

00:54:39.420 --> 00:54:40.320

Phil: Mercy Killing...

00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:40.320

Tom: .

00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:51.800

Tom: was spent fucking several months pontificating about writing a novel and how he's going to leave his job to get his dream of writing a novel.

00:54:52.140 --> 00:54:53.300

Tom: Now, let's be honest.

00:54:53.560 --> 00:55:14.760

Tom: If someone is talking endlessly about writing a novel and that they're going to leave their job and write a novel, when they leave their job, they're never going to write a novel and just end up even more depressed and despairing than they were before, when they were failing to write their novel with an excuse, when now they're not writing their novel without an excuse.

00:55:15.100 --> 00:55:15.440

Phil: So...

00:55:15.460 --> 00:55:17.180

Phil: You did the right thing.

00:55:17.820 --> 00:55:20.740

Tom: Not only the pragmatic thing, but the morally correct thing.

00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:21.680

Phil: Compassionate thing.

00:55:23.580 --> 00:55:26.920

Phil: What I would have liked then, just a little bit of steering from the game.

00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:35.480

Phil: Like if I went up and talked to Fay, it would have been good for him to say, hey, you know, man, you're really following these rules here pretty tightly.

00:55:35.500 --> 00:55:38.140

Phil: Have you even noticed what's going on in the outside world?

00:55:39.340 --> 00:55:54.940

Phil: And it's important, a game mechanic is important to note, is that at the start of every day, you have a Twitter feed on your mobile phone or whatever it is that basically tells you the repercussions of what had happened from you killing the people and sparing the people from the day before.

00:55:55.680 --> 00:56:03.080

Phil: So I guess in a way, the game is telling you, hey, what you're doing is actually having an impact.

00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:11.380

Phil: But I found that Twitter feed thing to be so dumb that I just really just clicked through it and didn't even read it after a while.

00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:15.700

Phil: And I guess this is the whole nihilism and apathy thing coming through again.

00:56:17.460 --> 00:56:22.140

Tom: This discussion has actually made me appreciate the game a lot more than I did.

00:56:22.160 --> 00:56:23.360

Phil: Yeah, me too.

00:56:23.380 --> 00:56:24.480

Phil: I didn't know that...

00:56:25.240 --> 00:56:32.320

Phil: Actually, you know, I don't know if I could play the whole bloody thing again, but I probably could if I didn't have 1600 other games to play right now.

00:56:34.160 --> 00:56:38.060

Phil: But yeah, I think it probably is worth it.

00:56:38.080 --> 00:56:38.900

Phil: I just wish there was...

00:56:40.020 --> 00:56:45.940

Phil: It's, you know, I'm saying, I wish there was more, but I only played one of the endings and there's 19 other endings, so I just have no interest in playing them.

00:56:46.240 --> 00:56:53.580

Phil: So it must be horrible for the developer to have to hear me go through this, and I certainly know what he'd do with me if he saw my portfolio.

00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.020

Phil: Podcaster, huh?

00:56:56.780 --> 00:56:58.180

Phil: Neolus Podcaster.

00:56:59.660 --> 00:57:03.920

Tom: I killed every single content creator I came across.

00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:05.100

Phil: Oh, good move.

00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:12.040

Tom: So we both had our vices, but my vice was to the betterment of humanity.

00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:26.940

Phil: Hey, look, when I was given the choice where it said you've got to kill four people, two of them have to be in the food industry, I did go through the other profiles, and if there were two scumbags, I would kill them and spare the good people.

00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:31.820

Phil: So it's not just I went, okay, I've killed the two people in food industry, and I'll just kill two other people.

00:57:32.960 --> 00:58:02.380

Tom: We should add as well, and I think this is also to the game's emblematic of the quality that is hidden beneath the surface at times, is one thing I think it managed to strike a good balance between, and there were a lot of people reviewing it or posting that didn't agree with this, but that's not true to my experience, and with my discussion with you, and I think there's further evidence this was the case.

00:58:02.680 --> 00:58:31.840

Tom: I think it's managed to present things at a simplistic level where killing certain people and certain people surviving would logically result in what you would expect it to, as well as throwing in a few wrinkles of unexpected things so that you did have to pay attention to the people you were killing and second guess what you were doing as well.

00:58:33.340 --> 00:58:35.120

Tom: And I suggest that...

00:58:35.200 --> 00:58:46.860

Tom: Because I was unsure whether this was the case or not, but given my utopian world and your apocalypse, that would suggest that this was actually the case.

00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:49.560

Phil: That's right, yeah.

00:58:49.580 --> 00:58:53.300

Phil: And in fact, there's a lot more to it than obviously what I had thought.

00:58:56.080 --> 00:58:57.760

Phil: So, any other spoilers before we...

00:58:58.300 --> 00:59:00.800

Tom: No, I think we're ready to give it a score.

00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:02.940

Phil: Okay, well again, the game is Death and Taxes.

00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:07.340

Phil: It's available on PC, on Steam, or itch.io, wherever you want to get it.

00:59:08.240 --> 00:59:09.060

Phil: Not a cheap game.

00:59:10.080 --> 00:59:14.440

Phil: I got it fairly affordably, I believe, but it's currently $18.50 AUD.

00:59:14.460 --> 00:59:19.700

Tom: It was tremendously cheap in the God bundle, though.

00:59:19.720 --> 00:59:20.260

Phil: Yes, it was.

00:59:22.120 --> 00:59:32.680

Phil: So it's basically $20 right now on Steam, but I think they've got a sale coming up, or 33% off or something, and it's developed and published by Placeholder Gameworks.

00:59:33.380 --> 00:59:48.960

Phil: I've got to say, in its appearance, it looks like a Flash game, which is a dated reference, but I think that didn't help it as well, because a certain type of person like myself looks at that kind of graphics.

00:59:49.580 --> 00:59:57.840

Phil: But it had a woodcut element to it that kind of obviously elevated it to a more pleasing appearance.

00:59:58.080 --> 01:00:04.480

Phil: But I was going to give this game a 6, but now I feel like that would be unfair.

01:00:05.100 --> 01:00:16.220

Phil: I think the game's obviously a lot more complex than I thought, so I do want to probably withhold, refrain from giving it a score and probably see what the replay experience is like.

01:00:16.300 --> 01:00:22.420

Phil: Hopefully they've streamlined it so that it doesn't take as long as the original game, which I think took about 6 or 7 hours.

01:00:23.520 --> 01:00:25.740

Tom: I think it took me maybe half that.

01:00:26.240 --> 01:00:27.300

Phil: I could be mistaken.

01:00:27.560 --> 01:00:30.880

Tom: I don't think it was that long at all.

01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:32.400

Phil: You want to get old 6ie out?

01:00:32.680 --> 01:00:37.560

Tom: Yeah, it's a die 10, but I'm ready to give it a score.

01:00:40.040 --> 01:00:42.000

Tom: It gets an 8 out of 10.

01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:44.400

Phil: Wow, that's a pretty good score.

01:00:45.380 --> 01:00:48.020

Tom: That's the highest score today so far.

01:00:48.640 --> 01:00:52.600

Phil: That's actually on par with how Steam users rated it.

01:00:53.080 --> 01:00:55.760

Phil: Most people are giving it the 8 out of 10.

01:00:56.200 --> 01:01:00.200

Tom: When I played the demo, I was flabbergasted by the positive reaction.

01:01:01.340 --> 01:01:02.440

Phil: Yeah, the demo did not.

01:01:02.500 --> 01:01:04.260

Phil: You agree with me the demo didn't sell a game.

01:01:04.600 --> 01:01:06.580

Tom: You were much higher on the demo than me.

01:01:07.500 --> 01:01:15.200

Tom: When I played the demo, my reaction was, and you went on to play the main game, I believe I said to you, I'm not going to play this.

01:01:15.240 --> 01:01:16.100

Phil: Yes, you did.

01:01:16.380 --> 01:01:16.780

Phil: You did.

01:01:16.840 --> 01:01:18.080

Phil: And now you've given it an 8.

01:01:18.260 --> 01:01:18.820

Phil: That's incredible.

01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:19.260

Tom: Correct.

01:01:20.660 --> 01:01:21.580

Tom: What a turnaround.

01:01:21.940 --> 01:01:33.020

Phil: If you want to talk about another work simulator, I've got to an ending of Beat Cop, which is kind of a controversial game, I imagine, right now.

01:01:34.400 --> 01:01:35.020

Phil: Well...

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:46.800

Tom: We have to go there, because I saw today, Libertarians are one of our hobbies, one of my hobbies that gets into the podcast.

01:01:47.360 --> 01:02:14.280

Tom: And I saw one of the modern geniuses of political coverage today in the internet sphere, who I won't name, who was tremendously confused and outraged that the Libertarian Party, and I was actually shocked as well that the Libertarian Party was living up to some of its Libertarian values, had endorsed the Black Lives Matter movement.

01:02:14.300 --> 01:02:24.540

Tom: Because for some reason, this commentator thought that the Libertarian Party should be pro-police for some reason.

01:02:25.940 --> 01:02:26.860

Tom: I'm not sure why.

01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:31.660

Phil: Well, I think if anyone wanted to defund the police, it would be a Libertarian, wouldn't it?

01:02:32.080 --> 01:02:32.680

Tom: Exactly.

01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:37.240

Phil: I mean, you want freedom, and you don't want to pay for anything, so defund the police.

01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:41.280

Phil: I would assume that Libertarians would be all about that, not law and order.

01:02:41.340 --> 01:02:45.120

Phil: But apparently not.

01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:47.120

Phil: They wouldn't want justice.

01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:48.940

Phil: Libertarians wouldn't want justice.

01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:49.820

Phil: They'd want freedom.

01:02:51.200 --> 01:02:53.420

Phil: So, I've got to say...

01:02:53.820 --> 01:03:01.620

Phil: Well, anyway, in the game, you play a beat on the cop in New York in 1986, I think.

01:03:02.100 --> 01:03:03.380

Tom: It's sometime in the 80s.

01:03:04.940 --> 01:03:13.420

Phil: And it's a retro pixel art style adventure, according to the developer, inspired by 80s cop shows.

01:03:13.420 --> 01:03:15.580

Phil: And I'd say that they've done a very good job of that.

01:03:16.160 --> 01:03:22.120

Phil: In terms of its graphics, it appears like Police Quest when it was at its crest.

01:03:22.620 --> 01:03:26.540

Phil: Police Quest was a spin-off of the Space Quest games.

01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:28.160

Phil: I don't know.

01:03:28.180 --> 01:03:30.900

Phil: Have you had any experience with Space Quest or Police Quest?

01:03:31.700 --> 01:03:37.160

Tom: No, I have not, other than playing the introduction to one of the Police Quests.

01:03:38.880 --> 01:04:03.280

Phil: Daryl Gates was the Chief of Police in Los Angeles during and shortly after the Rodney King civil uprising and presided openly over a police department that didn't really have much consideration for appearing to be correct or woke.

01:04:05.180 --> 01:04:11.380

Tom: I think what you mean, I believe it was one of the more racist and brutal police departments.

01:04:11.580 --> 01:04:17.300

Phil: Well, Wikipedia says he took a hardline aggressive paramilitary approach to law enforcement.

01:04:17.720 --> 01:04:21.020

Phil: He's credited with creating SWAT departments or SWAT teams.

01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:25.840

Phil: And yeah, the LAPD was a paramilitary organization.

01:04:26.240 --> 01:04:32.060

Phil: I think he said that drug dealers should be lined up against a wall and shot.

01:04:33.060 --> 01:04:35.160

Phil: Or he may have even been talking about drug users.

01:04:35.500 --> 01:04:38.740

Phil: Or, I don't know, people of different ethnicities.

01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:43.200

Tom: I think people generally don't make much of a distinction who have had opinions.

01:04:43.600 --> 01:04:48.720

Phil: If you've seen the show LA Noir, was LA Noir a game or a movie?

01:04:49.100 --> 01:04:50.720

Phil: LA Confidential, yeah.

01:04:51.020 --> 01:04:59.900

Phil: If you've seen LA Confidential, the chief of police in that, played by the guy that's in Babe, the pig movie.

01:05:01.340 --> 01:05:02.000

Phil: You know the guy.

01:05:02.020 --> 01:05:05.220

Tom: The guy that played the pig?

01:05:05.340 --> 01:05:10.560

Phil: The guy that played the farmer with the pig, who was named was Babe, pig in the city.

01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:14.940

Phil: In any case, the chief of police in LA Confidential played the pig.

01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:19.180

Tom: That was right there for you to say that the pig was playing the pig.

01:05:19.180 --> 01:05:19.940

Phil: He missed.

01:05:20.740 --> 01:05:21.660

Phil: Hey man.

01:05:22.640 --> 01:05:24.500

Phil: I don't call cops pigs.

01:05:25.500 --> 01:05:27.900

Phil: Anyway, it's based on Daryl Gates.

01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:40.920

Phil: Anyway, Police Quest actually came out with, but this is before the whole controversy, Police Quest actually came out, and it was a Sierra game, the Sierra point and click games, came out with a Daryl Gates Police Quest.

01:05:41.200 --> 01:05:44.160

Phil: And if you can find videos of this, it's hilarious.

01:05:44.540 --> 01:05:51.280

Phil: Now, I bought it at the time to play on my 386, and I found the game play to be absolutely riveting.

01:05:51.940 --> 01:06:00.460

Phil: And the graphics in this game simulate that era of PC game quite clearly, much like Papers, Please attempted to.

01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:10.120

Phil: So in the game, you play as a cop on a beat, and basically, you're a little stick figure type guy.

01:06:10.140 --> 01:06:15.600

Phil: I encourage people just to do an image search for beat cop game, and you'll see exactly what we're talking about.

01:06:16.300 --> 01:06:24.800

Phil: And you're in New York, and you've got this basically a very small city block, which is your beat, and you've been demoted.

01:06:24.820 --> 01:06:37.920

Phil: You were a detective, and you've been being investigated for a corruption charge, and basically demoted down to basically walking the beat as a New York City cop.

01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:44.300

Phil: So you can go into stores, you can write tickets, you can arrest people on the run.

01:06:45.660 --> 01:06:46.380

Phil: You can...

01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:49.080

Phil: Well, that's probably a basic enough description of the game.

01:06:49.100 --> 01:06:50.220

Phil: Have I missed anything there?

01:06:51.200 --> 01:06:51.880

Tom: I don't think so.

01:06:51.900 --> 01:06:59.960

Phil: And then obviously there's some choice in the game where you can side between two criminal groups.

01:07:01.200 --> 01:07:14.120

Phil: One group is your Italian American Mafia type, and the other is an urban American street gang who are black in ethnicity.

01:07:15.540 --> 01:07:34.400

Phil: And you've got to kind of balance doing your daily quota work, which is what the police chief has given you, or your sergeant, your desk sergeant has given you, doing or not doing favors for either of the criminal elements, and then also being cool to people in your neighborhood.

01:07:34.420 --> 01:07:37.640

Phil: So that means going in, talking to people in their shops and restaurants.

01:07:38.700 --> 01:07:42.920

Phil: You can also be cool, so to speak, with people you're writing tickets for.

01:07:42.940 --> 01:07:47.620

Phil: You can choose to not write them a ticket or not tow their car and that sort of thing.

01:07:47.640 --> 01:07:48.800

Tom: And accept their bribes.

01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:50.080

Phil: You can accept their bribes.

01:07:50.780 --> 01:07:58.820

Phil: And then at the end of the day, you get scored on what you were able to achieve against each of those goals.

01:08:00.100 --> 01:08:13.280

Phil: In terms of the homage to Papers, Please, at the bottom of the screen, you've got a digital watch that tells you what time it is, a Motorola radio, handcuffs, a gun and a notebook.

01:08:13.520 --> 01:08:17.440

Phil: And the notebook basically keeps you on track as to what you're doing on a day by day basis.

01:08:18.200 --> 01:08:26.460

Phil: And those work extremely well and look just like they were done in Papers, Please style.

01:08:28.340 --> 01:08:32.920

Phil: The game was developed by a company called Pixelcrow.

01:08:35.200 --> 01:08:38.080

Phil: And I think I'm not quite sure where they're from.

01:08:38.100 --> 01:08:43.460

Phil: I'm pretty sure it's in Eastern Europe, but I could be mistaken there.

01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:45.260

Tom: I think they might be American.

01:08:45.680 --> 01:08:47.320

Phil: No, I really don't think so.

01:08:47.340 --> 01:08:48.380

Tom: I think they may be.

01:08:50.080 --> 01:08:56.620

Tom: I'm pretty sure I watched an interview with them on SUP Homes in the very early days of production.

01:08:57.460 --> 01:09:00.580

Tom: And I am not sure that they are not American.

01:09:00.700 --> 01:09:03.600

Phil: Okay, well if you could check that out for me, that would be good.

01:09:03.620 --> 01:09:04.720

Tom: But I could well be wrong.

01:09:04.740 --> 01:09:06.040

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:09:06.520 --> 01:09:10.440

Phil: So in terms of how it depicts, everyone in this game is depicted horribly.

01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:18.560

Phil: You know, the game has cultural stereotypes in it.

01:09:19.420 --> 01:09:23.360

Phil: And some of them are just, I think, unnecessarily in the game.

01:09:23.580 --> 01:09:25.040

Phil: I'm not overly sensitive.

01:09:25.060 --> 01:09:29.400

Tom: It's an homage to 80s police films and shows.

01:09:29.420 --> 01:09:30.800

Phil: TV shows, exactly right.

01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:33.220

Tom: I think they are perfectly on point.

01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:39.760

Phil: I don't remember seeing an 80s TV show where a black person was sitting on their front step eating a watermelon.

01:09:43.160 --> 01:09:45.540

Tom: Maybe not a television show.

01:09:45.560 --> 01:09:45.900

Phil: Yeah.

01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:50.600

Phil: I don't know that that particular cultural reference was necessary.

01:09:52.500 --> 01:09:55.320

Phil: And the game is particularly verbose.

01:09:55.380 --> 01:09:58.920

Phil: I mean, there's a lot of text to click through.

01:09:58.940 --> 01:10:08.000

Phil: And I think that that probably hurt my game experience because I don't know if you had, like, it was never really explained to me how to handcuff someone.

01:10:09.660 --> 01:10:14.560

Phil: Like, basically, if someone's on the run and you're chasing after them, there's a way...

01:10:14.580 --> 01:10:15.560

Tom: I think they did explain it.

01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:19.300

Tom: And you basically just get near to them and press the button.

01:10:19.320 --> 01:10:21.260

Phil: Press the handcuff button, right.

01:10:21.280 --> 01:10:25.920

Phil: Well, when you get close to them, a handcuff insignia appears next to the person.

01:10:26.200 --> 01:10:27.820

Phil: So I was clicking on the insignia.

01:10:27.820 --> 01:10:29.600

Phil: I wasn't clicking on the actual handcuff.

01:10:31.320 --> 01:10:32.020

Phil: You know, that's just...

01:10:32.040 --> 01:10:35.840

Phil: I'm just going to blame myself for that because I did click through a lot of the text.

01:10:37.340 --> 01:10:39.520

Phil: Because it was, I mean, just endless.

01:10:39.540 --> 01:10:40.740

Phil: It just went on and on and on.

01:10:43.780 --> 01:10:48.520

Phil: One of the limits of the game, I thought, was the actual police work that you did.

01:10:50.020 --> 01:10:54.420

Phil: How did you find the size of the gameplay area that was available to you?

01:10:54.980 --> 01:10:59.860

Tom: Well, I am going to refrain from going into too many details until I have finished it.

01:11:01.280 --> 01:11:06.740

Tom: But it depended on the day, essentially, and how much you were meant to be doing.

01:11:10.220 --> 01:11:11.020

Phil: I personally...

01:11:11.100 --> 01:11:15.700

Tom: I don't think there was an issue with the actual size of the area or the game.

01:11:15.740 --> 01:11:23.240

Tom: It more so was about what your tasks were and what random things appeared.

01:11:23.260 --> 01:11:30.520

Phil: And I thought for me that the game, the actual job of the cop was pretty mundane and repetitive.

01:11:30.540 --> 01:11:44.300

Phil: I mean, basically, 99% of what you do is write tickets for parking violations and calling cars to be towed, or variations thereof, you know, so you might have to check cars.

01:11:44.580 --> 01:11:48.360

Tom: I would say you're only mainly doing that on days where not much is happening.

01:11:49.020 --> 01:11:51.140

Phil: Which I found was every day.

01:11:52.200 --> 01:11:54.820

Phil: I mean, if you did engage...

01:11:54.840 --> 01:11:56.060

Tom: Did you do all the side things?

01:11:56.120 --> 01:11:56.980

Phil: I didn't do all of them.

01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:57.320

Tom: Every day?

01:11:57.320 --> 01:12:01.500

Phil: I didn't do all of them because I did find that those did become too challenging.

01:12:02.020 --> 01:12:14.880

Phil: Like, if you accepted every side quest, there was absolutely no way you could get all the side quests done on most days, and still meet your quota, and follow up on the overarching storyline of which there is.

01:12:15.700 --> 01:12:24.740

Tom: Well, I could, and it was a very stressful and pressurized experience in a good way.

01:12:25.560 --> 01:12:37.700

Tom: So I think you need to commit to what's going on, and take everything and attempt it to really get out of the game what they're going for, I think.

01:12:37.880 --> 01:12:38.620

Phil: Yeah, I think so.

01:12:38.640 --> 01:13:04.360

Phil: I mean, like, if you were able to get that tension where you're actually feeling stressed and nervous about getting everything done, obviously that's an element of, you know, tower defence games or another of my favourite work simulators, which is an air traffic control game, you know, where you have to go through these set motions and eventually that stuff just keeps stacking up and stacking up and stacking up.

01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:08.840

Tom: And you've got to strategise on how you're doing your tickets.

01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:09.920

Phil: Yes.

01:13:10.120 --> 01:13:31.820

Tom: And choose when to do them and when to focus on them and whether, as you're on a way to a destination, you should ignore all parked cars or cars with lights broken or worn down tyres or whether, as you're on your way to a place, you should give out a few tickets and that sort of thing.

01:13:32.740 --> 01:13:34.740

Phil: And the game does have some tells.

01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:47.660

Phil: Like, so over time you can say, you know, this isn't a spoiler, this is a helpful tip, but basically, like, if a car's tyres are at the point where you should be writing it a ticket, you'll see skid marks behind where the car is parked.

01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:53.180

Tom: Yep, and if they've got broken lights, you will see a spark on their lights.

01:13:53.360 --> 01:13:53.740

Tom: Really?

01:13:54.860 --> 01:13:55.560

Phil: I thought you had to...

01:13:55.620 --> 01:13:57.660

Tom: It's very hard to see, but it is there.

01:13:57.760 --> 01:13:58.200

Phil: Okay.

01:13:59.720 --> 01:14:09.780

Phil: And there's also cool things that you pick up on in terms of, they give you kind of hints, so there are hints as to possibly there's some days where you could take bribes and get away with it and some days you couldn't.

01:14:10.920 --> 01:14:35.640

Tom: My strategy so far has been essentially if there is a difficult ticket quota to get through all the tickets ignoring all bribes, then if there is time, accept every single bribe following that because if you accept a lot of bribes, you will end up making more money than you will get docked for accepting bribes if you get noticed.

01:14:36.360 --> 01:14:44.140

Phil: Yes, but ultimately, someone could be watching you and that could come back to bite you later on as the game develops.

01:14:44.160 --> 01:14:47.420

Tom: It may well, but I am all for the money.

01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:47.920

Phil: Yes.

01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:52.900

Phil: I thought that the characters inside the stores were well written.

01:14:53.860 --> 01:15:10.380

Tom: Can I just ask, I know that the American job structure is extremely totalitarian in many ways, but why is your alimony payments part of your job at the police force?

01:15:10.400 --> 01:15:12.460

Phil: Yes, that's actually true in Australia as well.

01:15:12.740 --> 01:15:13.620

Tom: Okay, is it?

01:15:13.640 --> 01:15:18.780

Phil: Yes, if you have child support payments, the government docks that directly out of your...

01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:25.580

Phil: that's something that they do with your employer to deduct it directly out of your payroll.

01:15:26.100 --> 01:15:35.980

Phil: So, yes, in this game, your alimony payments are one of the main financial stresses on your life, and you have to have a certain amount of money at certain intervals.

01:15:36.580 --> 01:15:39.400

Phil: And, yes, but believe it or not, I didn't...

01:15:39.440 --> 01:15:48.660

Phil: obviously, I've never been in this situation, but I've been around now and overheard enough things where, yes, that becomes your employer's business, sadly.

01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:52.880

Tom: Fascinating.

01:15:53.840 --> 01:16:03.760

Phil: The overarching story, I found it, without going into spoilers, I found it difficult for long periods of time to progress that plot.

01:16:03.940 --> 01:16:05.940

Phil: Am I again missing something there?

01:16:06.600 --> 01:16:10.320

Tom: A lot of the main story is actually completely optional.

01:16:10.440 --> 01:16:20.920

Tom: So if you don't make phone calls at certain times and don't go and meet up with people, then I think you will be missing out stuff on the main story.

01:16:21.080 --> 01:16:23.000

Phil: Yeah, and I really tried to progress it.

01:16:23.020 --> 01:16:26.720

Phil: So I tried to make all of those phone calls and meet certain people.

01:16:27.360 --> 01:16:34.340

Phil: And I think in some cases, I really would have appreciated an instant replay.

01:16:35.020 --> 01:16:47.180

Phil: Just go back 30 seconds, because sometimes I click on the person I was supposed to meet, and then immediately, because I'm so used to just going through the text, hit the wrong response and then they'd leave, and then that was never followed up on.

01:16:48.260 --> 01:16:56.860

Phil: The game does have a rewind option, or a turn back time option rather, but you have to start from the start of a certain day.

01:16:57.140 --> 01:17:01.380

Phil: It's not like you can turn back time half an hour or an hour, or that sort of thing.

01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:07.700

Phil: The level of detail in the game is quite extraordinary, and I do appreciate that.

01:17:08.040 --> 01:17:10.720

Phil: I also greatly appreciate the aesthetic of the game.

01:17:13.420 --> 01:17:33.320

Phil: And obviously I must have been missing the point somewhere along the line, because I did get to a fail state by about day 16 or 18, where it is possible to have such poor relationships with one group or another, where the game will end, regardless of what you want to do or try to do.

01:17:35.160 --> 01:17:42.140

Phil: And then I went back and rewinded a day, and apparently they just immediately got rid of me again.

01:17:42.160 --> 01:17:47.160

Tom: Can you rewind further or only to the previous day?

01:17:47.180 --> 01:17:52.560

Phil: I wish I could tell you, but honestly by that time, the game had worn out its welcome for me.

01:17:53.940 --> 01:18:00.200

Phil: I was already kind of sick of the game and my inability to really progress the story properly.

01:18:01.160 --> 01:18:03.120

Phil: I was doing really well on my police work.

01:18:03.440 --> 01:18:12.080

Phil: I was doing enough of the side stories that I was keeping one group happy, but apparently I didn't keep the Italian Americans happy enough.

01:18:13.100 --> 01:18:15.100

Phil: I found them to be completely unsympathetic.

01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:25.300

Phil: And so I just kind of just didn't play the game that way, but you've really got to keep everyone on balance to get to that good ending or series of good endings, I guess.

01:18:25.980 --> 01:18:34.820

Phil: Also, I screwed up because of, as what I just described, I was supposed to meet someone and when I met them, I gave them the wrong response accidentally.

01:18:35.580 --> 01:18:38.080

Phil: And again, I was just so sick of the game at that point.

01:18:38.100 --> 01:18:39.640

Phil: I could have replayed that whole day.

01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:45.420

Phil: But the whole thing is like, each day takes a fair bit to get through.

01:18:45.440 --> 01:18:49.760

Tom: Depending on how much stuff there is, they can last 20 to 40 minutes.

01:18:49.780 --> 01:18:50.760

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

01:18:50.880 --> 01:19:02.720

Phil: And so if you're towards the end of that period, going back and replaying that whole day where everything is clockwork, I mean, the exact same stuff will happen.

01:19:03.220 --> 01:19:04.400

Phil: To a degree, to a degree.

01:19:04.420 --> 01:19:09.760

Phil: I mean, the traffic changes, the cars and their parking seems to be fairly pseudo-random.

01:19:11.500 --> 01:19:16.920

Phil: And I actually really liked the actual arresting people and that sort of stuff.

01:19:16.920 --> 01:19:24.760

Phil: I just think that it was, mostly the police work was so strongly centered around a single activity, which was traffic violations.

01:19:25.180 --> 01:19:32.340

Phil: I just wish there were more other police-type work that you could be doing other than just liaising and the side stories.

01:19:34.980 --> 01:19:39.080

Phil: I probably found the church side stories to be the most interesting ones.

01:19:40.700 --> 01:19:46.860

Tom: They've been just starting to get more amusing for me, where I'm up to.

01:19:48.800 --> 01:19:54.780

Phil: I think the early appearance of the Russian cop was really spot on.

01:19:54.800 --> 01:19:55.560

Phil: I loved that one.

01:19:58.620 --> 01:20:00.740

Phil: There's a lot of elements to this game I really enjoyed.

01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:08.400

Phil: Probably, if I could do anything, would shorten the length of the days and have more diversity in terms of the kind of police work that you're doing.

01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:21.700

Tom: I think, to me, the police work doesn't really need more diversity, because if you are doing the side stuff, that gives you a greater variety of things to do.

01:20:23.940 --> 01:20:26.600

Tom: My experience of it, I may as well mention now.

01:20:27.180 --> 01:20:33.800

Tom: I would agree with your general description of how the days unfold.

01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:37.400

Tom: But I think the main goal is two things.

01:20:37.620 --> 01:20:41.340

Tom: One, accruing as much money as possible.

01:20:41.460 --> 01:20:45.980

Tom: And the way I've been doing that may at some point prove my downfall.

01:20:46.740 --> 01:20:56.200

Tom: But, for instance, I am usually about $1,000 above my alimony payments.

01:20:57.120 --> 01:21:08.900

Tom: But the whole point of the game, I think, is one, to do as much side stuff as possible, because that serves two functions.

01:21:09.040 --> 01:21:15.600

Tom: One, the main story stuff is actually presented as a lot of the side stuff, so that's important.

01:21:16.100 --> 01:21:30.540

Tom: And two, the side stuff is really how you're able to balance your relationship with the police, the gangbangers, the mafia, and the local business owners and residents.

01:21:30.700 --> 01:21:39.540

Tom: So when you're doing all of that stuff, it has the same sort of tension of Papers, Please!

01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:45.020

Tom: and other great work simulators, where you feel like you're doing too much stuff at once.

01:21:46.440 --> 01:21:54.180

Tom: And you've also got this basic, really repetitive thing to do, which is the tickets that you have to do as well, which serves two purposes.

01:21:54.340 --> 01:22:05.580

Tom: One, adds to the stress of what you're doing, but two, also acts as a sort of crutch to help you navigate around and keep you grounded.

01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:36.100

Tom: So for the first 10 days, for me, I think it has really struck an excellent balance of how it is structured as a work simulator, and it is tactically somewhat satisfying as well, giving out the tickets, and as you're learning how to look for lights and so forth, before you can more easily notice the sparks, things like checking the lights is very tactilely satisfying as well.

01:22:36.120 --> 01:22:40.220

Tom: So I think I'm definitely much more positive on it than you are.

01:22:40.680 --> 01:22:52.560

Tom: And as an homage to American police shows and cinema of the era, I think it is extremely good.

01:22:52.580 --> 01:23:07.400

Tom: And you are indeed correct, it is certainly not American, it is Polish, which explains why the watermelon scene is in there, and also why it is such a great homage.

01:23:07.400 --> 01:23:26.720

Tom: Because I think if it is American, then it won't have things like the watermelon thing in there and will probably be downplaying how extreme a lot of 80s police related stuff was, if not in its open imagery, in its subtext.

01:23:27.460 --> 01:23:34.020

Phil: Yeah, and in chat I just sent you a picture from Daryl Gates' Police Quest game.

01:23:35.120 --> 01:23:41.000

Phil: As you can see, the graphical style is kind of sort of there, and that's a screenshot that I wouldn't put on our website.

01:23:43.140 --> 01:23:45.280

Phil: Right now, I don't think you could get away with that anymore.

01:23:45.960 --> 01:23:47.180

Phil: But you can see...

01:23:47.200 --> 01:23:48.320

Tom: Well, I certainly would.

01:23:48.320 --> 01:23:49.240

Phil: Yeah, I know you would.

01:23:49.280 --> 01:23:50.620

Phil: And they've got the...

01:23:50.640 --> 01:23:52.440

Phil: See how they've got the tools there along the bottom.

01:23:52.460 --> 01:23:58.740

Phil: So I really do think it's probably more of an homage or copy back to Daryl F.

01:23:58.760 --> 01:24:01.000

Phil: Gates' Police Quest.

01:24:01.320 --> 01:24:06.140

Phil: And again, I strongly encourage you to do an image search for that game.

01:24:06.160 --> 01:24:08.060

Phil: Well, I'm glad you...

01:24:08.480 --> 01:24:14.440

Tom: The lighting also topically looks like one of the characters is wearing a surgeon's mask.

01:24:15.160 --> 01:24:15.700

Phil: What's that?

01:24:16.540 --> 01:24:26.040

Tom: The lighting in the image you have sent me, which if you don't post the front page story for this episode of the podcast, will be on the front page.

01:24:26.060 --> 01:24:30.540

Tom: So please look forward to that if Phil Fogg is lazy listeners.

01:24:31.400 --> 01:24:36.000

Tom: But the lighting looks like the detective is wearing a mask.

01:24:36.420 --> 01:24:37.580

Tom: Yeah, it does.

01:24:37.580 --> 01:24:38.320

Phil: It does.

01:24:38.340 --> 01:24:39.020

Phil: In fact, he may.

01:24:39.040 --> 01:24:40.980

Phil: I forget the actual plot line.

01:24:41.200 --> 01:24:42.080

Phil: But you see how the...

01:24:42.500 --> 01:24:43.980

Phil: This is boring for people who can't see it.

01:24:44.160 --> 01:24:47.120

Phil: But you see the light on those cans near the door.

01:24:47.140 --> 01:24:48.380

Phil: You see the light on the hat.

01:24:48.400 --> 01:24:53.100

Phil: You can see how that comes through in Beat Cop, certainly.

01:24:56.020 --> 01:24:58.340

Phil: So I'm glad you enjoyed it.

01:24:58.360 --> 01:25:03.160

Phil: I thought this was a game that came out recently, but it's actually an old game from 2017.

01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:07.740

Phil: It has tremendously high feedback on Steam.

01:25:09.600 --> 01:25:13.540

Phil: Rightfully so for me so far.

01:25:15.160 --> 01:25:15.500

Phil: Yep.

01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:16.620

Phil: So I'm not going to give it a score.

01:25:16.640 --> 01:25:22.120

Phil: Again, just like with Death in Texas, I think you're giving me a reason to really revisit my experience with it.

01:25:22.140 --> 01:25:23.920

Phil: I spent a lot of time with this game too.

01:25:25.640 --> 01:25:26.000

Phil: But...

01:25:26.620 --> 01:25:38.940

Tom: I think it may be too stressful for you if you put in the amount of commitment that is required to really enjoy it.

01:25:39.200 --> 01:25:42.940

Tom: It may be too stressful.

01:25:43.060 --> 01:25:43.900

Phil: I don't know about that.

01:25:43.920 --> 01:25:49.900

Phil: I mean, because I really like stressful work sims, like the air traffic controller game.

01:25:49.920 --> 01:26:01.720

Phil: But I think probably for me, the downfall for probably this and Death in Texas is the environment in which I have to play this, which is very short periods of time with a lot of distractions going on.

01:26:02.260 --> 01:26:08.280

Phil: And I think this game would benefit from having your full attention when you're playing it, not something that you're doing.

01:26:08.300 --> 01:26:09.700

Tom: Yeah, it definitely needs that.

01:26:09.720 --> 01:26:15.540

Phil: Yeah, and that's obviously something that's lacking in my life right now.

01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:23.840

Phil: My PC game is in a building that at night is very nice and quiet and isolated, but also very cold.

01:26:24.700 --> 01:26:28.060

Phil: So I typically play console games in the winter.

01:26:29.300 --> 01:26:31.780

Phil: So maybe we'll revisit a lot of these later on.

01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:33.660

Phil: Okay, well, great.

01:26:33.680 --> 01:26:36.240

Phil: And you're going to obviously persist with the game then?

01:26:37.240 --> 01:26:37.860

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:26:38.080 --> 01:26:38.500

Phil: Very good.

01:26:38.520 --> 01:26:39.080

Phil: Glad to hear it.

01:26:39.100 --> 01:26:44.360

Phil: And again, there's so much detail in the game that's just really remarkable and wonderful.

01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:48.000

Phil: And I really do appreciate the graphical style of it, that's for sure.

01:26:49.820 --> 01:26:51.520

Phil: But that's enough of this indie rubbish.

01:26:52.400 --> 01:26:58.860

Phil: Surely one of us has been playing a AAA game that's relevant to these times as well.

01:27:00.340 --> 01:27:02.100

Phil: Have you been playing Last of Us 2?

01:27:02.900 --> 01:27:03.620

Tom: No, I haven't.

01:27:04.300 --> 01:27:24.580

Tom: But I have been playing Metro Exodus, and I'm not going to talk about the actual game itself, but we discussed previously on the show that my Windows Store version of the game committed suicide, and I had to get it on the Epic Games Store for $27.

01:27:24.720 --> 01:27:36.060

Tom: And I don't know if you noticed this, but in the Steam sale, here's an example of the free markets competition resulting in positive things for the consumer.

01:27:36.360 --> 01:27:48.580

Tom: The much-maligned Epic Store in its sales has been offering coupons for users that give like $10 or sometimes even $15 off their purchase.

01:27:48.800 --> 01:27:51.560

Tom: And that can even be on games that are like $20.

01:27:51.580 --> 01:27:59.280

Tom: So you can essentially get $50, 50% off cheap games on the Epic Store during their sales.

01:27:59.340 --> 01:28:05.500

Tom: And if there's a good price on a game, you can get more off due to their coupon system.

01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:20.760

Tom: I ended up managing to pick up Metro Exodus with all of its DLC as a result of this coupon for $27, which as I projected would be cheaper than the best price on Steam in the upcoming summer sale, which was $38.

01:28:21.080 --> 01:28:28.440

Tom: And their coupon, which was only for $8, was only applicable if you were spending $45 or more.

01:28:29.360 --> 01:28:39.560

Tom: But there is an example of a better sales practice of Epic influencing Steam and forcing them to implement their own coupon system.

01:28:40.540 --> 01:29:01.200

Tom: So it's very good, lucky that the people who are in a consumerist cult for Steam are not large enough to kill off Epic Games as yet, because it is resulting in a positive effect on Steam, at least so far.

01:29:01.200 --> 01:29:02.040

Phil: Yeah, definitely.

01:29:02.060 --> 01:29:06.840

Phil: And I don't understand the corporate cult that's behind them.

01:29:07.760 --> 01:29:09.680

Phil: Just a piece of news that came in.

01:29:09.700 --> 01:29:10.780

Tom: Well, it's not just Steam.

01:29:11.020 --> 01:29:14.460

Tom: It's general gaming and fandom culture.

01:29:14.480 --> 01:29:27.620

Tom: For instance, Tencent announced a cyberpunk-themed game, and there are sways of people suggesting that it is a cyberpunk 27.7 ripoff.

01:29:27.860 --> 01:29:37.840

Tom: And I hate to break it to CD Projekt Red fans, but there is literally nothing original in Cyberpunk 2077.

01:29:37.860 --> 01:29:38.460

Phil: Absolutely.

01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:39.420

Tom: Literally nothing.

01:29:39.740 --> 01:29:40.880

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:29:40.900 --> 01:29:43.940

Phil: Just some news about Epic and Tencent and all the rest of it.

01:29:44.120 --> 01:29:48.160

Phil: Sony spent a quarter of a billion dollars investing in Epic this week.

01:29:48.180 --> 01:29:49.980

Phil: So $250 million.

01:29:50.720 --> 01:29:53.560

Phil: Bought them a 1.5% share in Epic.

01:29:55.940 --> 01:29:58.260

Phil: So I don't know why you would do that.

01:29:59.320 --> 01:30:00.860

Phil: Maybe it's, who knows?

01:30:00.980 --> 01:30:01.400

Phil: I don't know.

01:30:01.420 --> 01:30:07.300

Phil: Maybe they're going to do some exclusive content with Fortnite, and that's the cost of doing business.

01:30:07.480 --> 01:30:08.760

Tom: They may well be.

01:30:10.140 --> 01:30:12.080

Phil: Tencent owns 40% of Epic.

01:30:13.280 --> 01:30:18.700

Phil: So for what it's worth, I've always liked Epic as a company.

01:30:18.720 --> 01:30:22.420

Phil: I've loved the products that they produce mostly.

01:30:23.780 --> 01:30:27.120

Phil: And I don't see any downside to the Epic store whatsoever.

01:30:28.980 --> 01:30:45.960

Tom: I think it is a great positive to the online game store ecosystem because it is literally the only other competitive steam because GOG is in its own niche, as is Humble Bundle.

01:30:46.820 --> 01:30:55.000

Tom: And then outside of that, all you have are the key resellers, which are obviously in their own niche, even further apart.

01:30:56.460 --> 01:30:57.800

Phil: I'd say itch.io is the best.

01:30:57.820 --> 01:31:04.120

Tom: And obviously itch.io is also another alternative, but again, in its own niche.

01:31:04.760 --> 01:31:06.860

Phil: I don't have any tattoos right now.

01:31:08.440 --> 01:31:12.000

Phil: If I had already had a few, I'd probably get an itch.io tattoo.

01:31:12.020 --> 01:31:14.000

Phil: I figured I'd owe them.

01:31:14.260 --> 01:31:16.120

Phil: It could just be there along with the rest of them.

01:31:16.140 --> 01:31:17.840

Phil: People would be like, dude, what's that for?

01:31:17.860 --> 01:31:21.360

Phil: I'm like, oh, in 2020, they gave me 1600 games for $5.

01:31:23.120 --> 01:31:24.260

Phil: It's the least I could do.

01:31:25.780 --> 01:31:31.040

Phil: But hey, so Metro Exodus, Metro, who develops Metro?

01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:37.100

Tom: 4A Studios, but we're not here to talk about the game itself in terms of any of its content.

01:31:37.120 --> 01:31:39.420

Tom: We're here to compare the two different versions.

01:31:40.000 --> 01:31:58.100

Tom: And again, I was shocked by the differences in the Caspian, the lighthouse scene, where on the Windows Store version, I had regular constant crashes that took me a long time to navigate through.

01:31:59.180 --> 01:32:06.360

Tom: That was not there at all, and the entire level generally ran about five frames per second faster.

01:32:07.180 --> 01:32:18.680

Tom: And outside of the Caspian on the Windows Games Store version, the game crashed several times.

01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:26.120

Tom: On the Epic Games Store version, so far I have crashed once in total.

01:32:26.120 --> 01:32:26.620

Tom: Why?

01:32:27.040 --> 01:32:27.900

Phil: How could this be?

01:32:28.640 --> 01:32:40.220

Tom: So I don't understand why or how, but apparently Windows Store versions of games are potentially as bad as their reputation would suggest.

01:32:41.620 --> 01:32:54.880

Tom: And the way in which the Metro Exodus Windows Store version committed suicide, I would highly suggest not getting a game on Windows Store if another option is available.

01:32:55.160 --> 01:32:57.240

Tom: Their prices are usually worse as well.

01:32:57.520 --> 01:32:58.620

Phil: It's just astounding.

01:32:58.640 --> 01:33:01.900

Phil: I just don't understand how it could be the same game, same computer.

01:33:01.920 --> 01:33:03.900

Phil: I mean, it should be the same install packet.

01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:05.680

Phil: I just don't get it.

01:33:05.800 --> 01:33:16.440

Tom: There must be some differences because, for instance, where the saves go, the Windows Store version goes into some completely esoteric and ridiculous place as well.

01:33:16.460 --> 01:33:20.400

Tom: So who knows how and why?

01:33:21.600 --> 01:33:23.660

Tom: But there appear to be differences somehow.

01:33:24.820 --> 01:33:35.180

Tom: And the other thing, last thing on Metro, is I actually just finished reading today the Metro 2033 novel.

01:33:35.640 --> 01:33:38.080

Phil: Oh, should I be getting a pen to write this down?

01:33:38.080 --> 01:33:38.840

Phil: Is it any good?

01:33:39.700 --> 01:33:42.760

Tom: Well, shockingly, it was extremely good.

01:33:43.220 --> 01:33:46.180

Tom: I was expecting it to be complete and utter shit.

01:33:46.740 --> 01:33:47.280

Phil: What's it called?

01:33:47.300 --> 01:33:48.520

Phil: Metro 2033?

01:33:48.540 --> 01:33:57.580

Tom: Metro 2033 by Dmitry Glukhovsky, who was involved in the writing of both 2033 and Last Light.

01:33:58.180 --> 01:33:59.140

Phil: How do you spell his last name?

01:33:59.160 --> 01:33:59.820

Tom: Not Exodus.

01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:01.500

Tom: Glukhovsky.

01:34:02.180 --> 01:34:03.220

Phil: You don't know how to spell his name.

01:34:13.080 --> 01:34:13.340

Phil: S-K-Y.

01:34:13.360 --> 01:34:14.680

Phil: And it's Dmitry D-M-I-T-R-I.

01:34:14.700 --> 01:34:16.420

Tom: Not Dmitry D-I-M.

01:34:17.380 --> 01:34:18.380

Phil: Yeah.

01:34:18.940 --> 01:34:20.260

Phil: Well, that's amazing.

01:34:20.340 --> 01:34:21.080

Phil: It's actually good.

01:34:21.720 --> 01:34:22.340

Tom: Yes, it is.

01:34:22.360 --> 01:34:56.160

Tom: And I bring it up because in the original game in Metro 2033, and also Last Light as well, Last Light was much more focused on the metaphysical themes that were in 2033, but I mentioned how extraordinarily Russian it was in that the stations you were exploring, the people you were interacting with were all basically mouthpieces for various political or philosophical ideologies.

01:34:56.960 --> 01:35:00.200

Tom: And it created this exceptional atmosphere.

01:35:00.220 --> 01:35:13.600

Tom: In the book, of course, this is much more exaggerated, and the metaphysical elements of Last Light that were downplayed in Metro 2033 is at the forefront as well as the philosophical and political stuff.

01:35:13.960 --> 01:35:27.700

Tom: So it's basically those two thematic bases combined into the one package, and obviously there's more room to expand upon it in the book compared to the game.

01:35:28.260 --> 01:35:54.960

Tom: But even more impressively, and I don't know if this was deliberate or not, but according to one internet profile of him, he is a critic of modern Russia's politics, so it may well be deliberate in the game there other than as being part of the Russian writing tradition and even Soviet writing tradition as well.

01:35:55.260 --> 01:35:57.800

Tom: This didn't really change during communism.

01:35:59.200 --> 01:36:45.100

Tom: Other than those elements being there basically just as a traditional way of telling the story, the way the whole of the Metro setting is presented and the philosophy and the political discussions are presented is very, very, very much comes across as being commentary on the propaganda style of the Putin government and his absolutely amazing, the people who does his stuff, where you're basically going around this new world that has appeared in some time before 2033, i.e.

01:36:45.140 --> 01:36:54.280

Tom: in the modern era, after a massive change in society completely collapsing the accepted way of understanding the world.

01:36:54.340 --> 01:37:14.620

Tom: And in replacement of this is basically a lapping version of previous ideologies and philosophies, all presented simultaneously, openly as coming from the source of government funding and propaganda.

01:37:15.200 --> 01:37:30.700

Tom: And you're left with a world where you are presented with all these openly false ideas, and you have to navigate it in this nihilistic setting.

01:37:30.980 --> 01:37:41.120

Tom: And while this is very much in line with all the anti-Russian propaganda that is out there, I do recommend people go out and read Alexander Dugan.

01:37:41.240 --> 01:37:47.180

Tom: And I've forgotten the name of the more interesting PR people in the Russian government.

01:37:47.440 --> 01:37:58.280

Tom: The former theatre director and the novelist and short story writer is very much in line with their own propaganda as well.

01:37:58.480 --> 01:38:12.500

Tom: So I was not expecting that, and it may not even be intentional, but merely be accidental coming from a writer who unconsciously has absorbed a lot of the culture in which he lives.

01:38:12.580 --> 01:38:37.680

Tom: But regardless, it is a step up from the games, which I was not expecting, and a fascinating depiction and way of modern day Russia, and a way of presenting it in the metaphor of the metro system, where you are literally going from important Russian location to important Russian location.

01:38:38.220 --> 01:38:40.780

Phil: Do you follow 4A games at all?

01:38:40.800 --> 01:38:44.580

Phil: I mean, in terms of, you know, outside of metro and...

01:38:46.740 --> 01:38:48.800

Tom: Outside of metro, not really.

01:38:48.820 --> 01:38:49.520

Phil: Yeah, okay.

01:38:49.540 --> 01:38:51.460

Tom: Do they do anything outside of metro?

01:38:51.740 --> 01:38:52.500

Phil: No, they don't.

01:38:52.500 --> 01:38:55.420

Phil: I mean, they've been doing metro for almost 10 years now.

01:38:55.800 --> 01:38:58.100

Phil: Well, they have been doing metro for over 10 years now.

01:38:58.560 --> 01:39:00.200

Phil: It's the sole thing that they do.

01:39:00.200 --> 01:39:09.100

Phil: And like, it's a very well-respected game and probably must be highly successful if they're still doing it after 10 years.

01:39:10.340 --> 01:39:18.580

Phil: I certainly know that the marketing of the game has been entirely sensitive and thoughtful over the years.

01:39:18.600 --> 01:39:26.900

Phil: So I just hope that they can continue doing what they want to do, but I'd also like to see something a little bit different out of them.

01:39:28.720 --> 01:39:33.260

Tom: Well, they did something a little bit different with Exodus, so they weren't just repeating themselves.

01:39:33.700 --> 01:39:34.820

Phil: No, they certainly did.

01:39:34.980 --> 01:39:38.660

Phil: And I remember the response to that wasn't that great either.

01:39:39.460 --> 01:39:45.140

Phil: But I did think that what they were doing with Exodus was enough of a departure.

01:39:45.160 --> 01:39:51.100

Phil: I'm just saying, are they going to get out of the world that they're in and do something else?

01:39:52.160 --> 01:39:52.640

Phil: Who knows?

01:39:52.660 --> 01:39:57.280

Phil: I mean, if they're making money and they're selling games, then, you know...

01:39:57.360 --> 01:40:02.120

Tom: I believe they have made a VR game that is unrelated to Metro.

01:40:02.140 --> 01:40:04.380

Tom: So they have technically done one other thing.

01:40:04.980 --> 01:40:09.900

Phil: The only reason they made the VR game unrelated to Metro was because people kept having to take off their...

01:40:10.200 --> 01:40:13.160

Phil: kept taking off their VR goggles to clear the steam.

01:40:13.180 --> 01:40:14.120

Tom: To get a new filter.

01:40:17.380 --> 01:40:18.140

Phil: All right, well...

01:40:19.120 --> 01:40:20.080

Tom: And I should add this.

01:40:20.820 --> 01:40:31.560

Tom: I would put this Metro 2033 well above Roadside Picnic, which is the source material for the stalker games and also the stalker film.

01:40:31.760 --> 01:40:34.780

Phil: Right, which is also still on my reading list.

01:40:34.980 --> 01:40:35.340

Phil: Actually...

01:40:35.920 --> 01:40:41.380

Tom: With the hierarchy for stalker, it goes the film is obviously incomparable.

01:40:42.360 --> 01:40:49.740

Tom: Then there is the game and then there is a long distance between the game and Roadside Picnic.

01:40:49.980 --> 01:41:10.040

Tom: But I would recommend reading Roadside Picnic and Metro 2033 because Metro 2033 very much comes out of Roadside Picnic and it is fascinating comparing the two and the different cultures from which they come from.

01:41:10.660 --> 01:41:19.300

Tom: Yet their consistency with the tradition of the Russian novel, even though they are both obviously genre works.

01:41:22.500 --> 01:41:29.500

Phil: Okay, well, I'm looking forward to what they do next, and I'll certainly pick up that book and give it a read.

01:41:30.100 --> 01:41:31.680

Phil: Thank you very much for the recommendation.

01:41:34.040 --> 01:41:43.460

Tom: And just before we move on from Communism, I believe in a previous episode of the show, you called Marxism very armchair.

01:41:44.960 --> 01:41:45.420

Phil: Did I?

01:41:45.440 --> 01:41:46.920

Tom: I think so.

01:41:47.320 --> 01:41:57.700

Tom: And I have now read Das Kapital, as well as several Austrian and classical economic works.

01:41:57.900 --> 01:42:00.580

Tom: And I would have to question that analysis.

01:42:01.220 --> 01:42:05.360

Phil: I don't know under what context I said it was armchair.

01:42:05.380 --> 01:42:08.120

Tom: I think this was in our discussion of cultural Marxism.

01:42:08.140 --> 01:42:29.820

Tom: Maybe you're referring to Marxist, because one interesting thing that I've noticed about American Marxists, and it explains why American Marxists are so tolerated in America, and they managed to successfully survive the communist purge, whereas many other left-wing movements did not.

01:42:29.960 --> 01:42:34.920

Tom: And American Marxists are essentially conservatives.

01:42:36.820 --> 01:42:42.460

Tom: Their commentary on the recent protests are absolutely astounding.

01:42:43.260 --> 01:43:01.100

Tom: Many of them are in the first place against them because they're scared of slogans like defund the police, and others completely dismiss it solely because they think there is no class criticism in it.

01:43:01.120 --> 01:43:11.320

Tom: Now, there is certainly a non-class criticism at the center of it, but they apparently have not had any exposure to it.

01:43:11.380 --> 01:43:27.600

Tom: They haven't had any exposure to the protests outside of, to use a much abused term, the mainstream media, because there are many people involved in the protests who do have a very economic reason for protesting and rioting.

01:43:28.540 --> 01:43:39.440

Tom: And they're there merely to comment and dismiss it and not even attempt to use it and reframe what is going on.

01:43:39.820 --> 01:43:44.640

Tom: It's absolutely astounding and explains why Marxism still goes on.

01:43:44.660 --> 01:43:56.900

Tom: But Das Kapital, as opposed to Marxists, I do not think you can describe that as an armchair analysis at all.

01:43:57.280 --> 01:43:57.900

Phil: I don't know.

01:43:57.920 --> 01:44:00.060

Phil: Yeah, I don't know what I was talking about there.

01:44:00.080 --> 01:44:03.020

Phil: I know we were talking about Mussolini and how much of a hack he was.

01:44:05.140 --> 01:44:07.540

Phil: We got into Stalin a little bit, I thought, but...

01:44:07.760 --> 01:44:16.140

Tom: Well, I have read a Stalin book as well, and Stalin's understanding of dialectical materialism is very much...

01:44:16.820 --> 01:44:28.700

Tom: It's like reading a blog, essentially, an absolutely terrifying blog interpretation of Marxism.

01:44:28.740 --> 01:44:37.140

Phil: It is incredible to me how Marx got to the position he was, but you could say that about a lot of historical figures from that period.

01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:43.620

Phil: I guess there's just a very shallow pool of applicants, really.

01:44:44.720 --> 01:44:46.820

Tom: I think Dars Kapital is...

01:44:47.580 --> 01:45:12.160

Tom: I'm yet to read Adam Smith, and he is my greatest hope for some classical economics that is in any way applicable to reality and is not entirely based on mathematical equations and school textbook style thought experiments, which unfortunately Dars Kapital has a lot of in it.

01:45:12.180 --> 01:45:18.280

Tom: But Dars Kapital is, I think, completely worthy of its reputation.

01:45:19.280 --> 01:45:28.120

Tom: It certainly needs an editor because 50% of it should be deleted that falls into the trap of mathematical masturbation.

01:45:28.560 --> 01:46:03.880

Tom: But a lot of it is a genuine attempt at applying empiricism to economics with detailed descriptions on how jobs actually function, how interactions between different people in the economy actually functions in real events, as well as very, very detailed and high quality descriptions of labour conditions and so forth, which is supported by a wealth of other empirical evidence from the era.

01:46:05.220 --> 01:46:17.920

Tom: So my reading of it was that it was the complete opposite of an armchair analysis and a genuine attempt at looking at economics empirically.

01:46:18.420 --> 01:46:24.420

Tom: And most other economics that I've read, the reverse has been true.

01:46:26.920 --> 01:46:31.440

Tom: But I would not recommend people read Das Kapital or Stalin.

01:46:32.120 --> 01:46:42.020

Tom: My recommendation for left-wing political figures, which Marx obviously wasn't, but Stalin was, would be The Green Book by Gaddafi.

01:46:42.720 --> 01:46:52.160

Tom: It features a tremendously entertaining section on the dictatorship of sports, and is well worth reading for that alone.

01:46:52.800 --> 01:46:56.280

Phil: He was big in the polo scene, as I recall.

01:46:56.300 --> 01:46:58.280

Phil: I think he was also an avid footballer.

01:47:00.440 --> 01:47:01.940

Tom: I don't think he was an avid footballer.

01:47:01.960 --> 01:47:03.320

Tom: He was very much against football.

01:47:03.880 --> 01:47:04.760

Phil: I've got him wrong then.

01:47:04.800 --> 01:47:06.960

Phil: But I know he played polo.

01:47:08.140 --> 01:47:10.120

Phil: But so where do you get a copy of the green book?

01:47:11.360 --> 01:47:13.800

Tom: I read mine on archive.org.

01:47:13.900 --> 01:47:16.060

Tom: It is widely available on the internet.

01:47:16.560 --> 01:47:23.320

Phil: See, there's a book by Moun Sharif Parev, I think, was his name, the guy that was in charge of Pakistan.

01:47:24.580 --> 01:47:31.840

Phil: And I bought that book immediately when it was available because I was like, oh, it immediately became a bestseller because the CIA went out and bought them all.

01:47:32.380 --> 01:47:33.740

Phil: And then purged them.

01:47:35.140 --> 01:47:38.820

Phil: And I'm always interested in reading what goes on in these people's minds.

01:47:38.840 --> 01:47:43.460

Phil: And yeah, he was not sane.

01:47:44.820 --> 01:47:47.220

Phil: But yeah, okay, well...

01:47:47.460 --> 01:47:51.100

Tom: Gaddafi, I would categorise as sane but eccentric.

01:47:51.240 --> 01:47:51.600

Phil: Yes.

01:47:51.780 --> 01:47:54.940

Phil: Okay, so archive.org is a good place then to get some of this stuff.

01:47:56.940 --> 01:47:58.200

Phil: What's the readability like?

01:47:58.220 --> 01:47:59.860

Phil: What do you get, like a PDF or...

01:48:01.400 --> 01:48:02.460

Tom: They have their own.

01:48:02.660 --> 01:48:06.360

Tom: You can read it just as a blank text document, if you prefer.

01:48:06.440 --> 01:48:15.340

Tom: Or you can use their book style reader, which you can arrange as a multiple page view, a double page view or a single page view.

01:48:16.080 --> 01:48:19.460

Phil: Do you read most of these on screen, like on the PC or...?

01:48:20.000 --> 01:48:21.160

Tom: Most of them I listen to.

01:48:21.180 --> 01:48:26.320

Tom: They have an automatic text-to-speech program.

01:48:26.700 --> 01:48:40.040

Tom: And if you can get the female voice on there, you can speed it up to being extremely fast, so you can read at least 100 pages per hour.

01:48:40.040 --> 01:48:40.920

Phil: Wow, okay.

01:48:41.240 --> 01:48:44.080

Tom: If not more, depending on the density of the text.

01:48:44.100 --> 01:48:45.000

Phil: Well, there's a good tip.

01:48:46.400 --> 01:48:51.200

Phil: I think with that, we'll probably just have to close out Episode 127 and pick up where we...

01:48:51.360 --> 01:48:53.760

Phil: what we left on the table for the next episode.

01:48:55.260 --> 01:49:00.180

Phil: I, for one, enjoyed your article on Call of Duty Modern Warfare.

01:49:00.840 --> 01:49:04.100

Phil: I really wanted to talk to you about it on this show, but we'll pick that up in the next show.

Phil: But just go over to gameunder.net, see Tom's pictorial and commentary and all of our other stuff.

Phil: Mr.

Phil: Towers, thank you for joining us.

01:49:14.960 --> 01:49:15.840

Tom: Thank you, Hammeh.

01:49:15.860 --> 01:49:23.780

Tom: And please look forward to our conclusion on what is the best Neo-Nazi novel in the next episode.

01:49:23.840 --> 01:49:24.460

Phil: Absolutely.

01:49:24.480 --> 01:49:27.240

Phil: And also my final impressions of Last of Us 2.