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Introduction
0:00:20 ASMR Segment
Tom Towers REACTS... the the news.
0:03:25 Nvideo 3080 3070 3060 Video Cards
0:10:11 Xbox Details
0:15:30 PS5 Price Speculation
0:21:01 Halo 3 Impressions from Tom
0:25:05 Nintendo News - Switch Pro, Nintendo 35 and more
Final Impressions - Towers
0:29:50 Iron Harvest
Trademark Banter
0:46:15 Vegan Aussie Confectionary and Pizza
0:49:30 Shatterd Union RTS on Xbox
0:50:50 Sky: Children of Light 1 Year Old Final
Impressions - Fogg and Towers
1:03:00 Night in the Woods 1:36:00 SPOILER ALERT
1:43:27 SPOILERS END HERE
Transcript
Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode 130 of The Game Under Podcast, Australia's longest running video games podcast.
Phil: I am Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by my co-host and founder, Tom Towers.
Phil: Hi, Tom.
Tom: I am indeed present.
Phil: Yes, it is.
Phil: Actually, you know what?
Phil: I haven't been watching the news quite closely.
Phil: We should probably tell people that you will be eating during this podcast, but you are eating a croissant, which is very, very low in terms of its interference for our video, audio recording.
Tom: So you will not be able to hear me eat the croissant, but you may be able to hear evidence of it being in my mouth while I speak.
00:00:45.980 --> 00:00:51.420
Phil: Yeah, we just thought this whole ASMR thing is something that might be able to help us get some new listeners.
00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:58.640
Phil: So I will not be eating what I usually eat, which is some chilli kettle chips.
00:01:00.060 --> 00:01:02.140
Tom: That will be like an episode with Gargan.
00:01:02.160 --> 00:01:04.100
Phil: Oh, is he really...
00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:06.420
Phil: he eats chips while he's on the show?
00:01:06.440 --> 00:01:10.580
Tom: He eats anything, and the louder the better on his podcast.
00:01:10.960 --> 00:01:11.720
Phil: Yeah, I have...
00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:19.860
Phil: Now that everyone's recording from home, which we should explain to our listeners because of these unprecedented times in which we live, we are both recording from our home studios.
00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:26.540
Phil: So if you do hear any audio things going on, crazy things like cats meowing, that's the reason why.
00:01:27.460 --> 00:01:32.360
Phil: But do you have a go-to food for when you're playing games, when you're video gaming?
00:01:32.380 --> 00:01:33.620
Phil: Because chips is not good.
00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:38.420
Phil: I mean, they're greasy, they mess up your controller.
00:01:39.440 --> 00:01:41.780
Tom: Usually I'm not eating when I'm playing games.
00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:43.020
Phil: Not at all.
00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:46.340
Tom: Though actually, if I'm playing...
00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.600
Tom: At the moment, usually I am actually playing a game while eating breakfast.
00:01:52.060 --> 00:01:52.520
Phil: Oh, okay.
00:01:53.340 --> 00:02:00.680
Tom: That is in fact how I played, for the most part, one of our items on the show today, Night in the Woods.
00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:02.760
Phil: Yes, yeah.
00:02:02.780 --> 00:02:04.860
Phil: I actually just finished that just before the show.
00:02:04.880 --> 00:02:07.500
Phil: I made sure I did all my homework and got it done in time.
00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:10.220
Phil: Me my go-to...
00:02:10.380 --> 00:02:21.060
Phil: Like if I had a food item, like I found the most efficient way is to put peanuts, flavored peanuts in a cup, and then I can just sort of drink them out of the cup and that keeps my hands nice and clean.
00:02:21.480 --> 00:02:24.040
Phil: So that's a pro tip for all the listeners out there.
00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:34.740
Tom: I believe an effective way supposedly of cleaning controllers is using screen wipes that you shouldn't actually use on your screen.
00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:37.480
Phil: No, you should not use screen wipes on your screen.
00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:38.300
Phil: Absolutely not.
00:02:38.320 --> 00:02:40.800
Tom: But they're apparently great for cleaning plastic safely.
00:02:41.200 --> 00:02:42.840
Phil: Now I know why you don't use screen wipes.
00:02:42.940 --> 00:02:43.960
Phil: Do you want to explain?
00:02:43.980 --> 00:02:46.940
Phil: I didn't know that this was something that other people knew besides me.
00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:50.260
Tom: Well, I believe they're usually alcohol-based, aren't they?
00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:50.860
Phil: Yep.
00:02:51.500 --> 00:03:01.140
Tom: And would not alcohol be an abrasive and dangerous substance to be applying it to a sensitive surface like a screen?
00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:02.300
Phil: Yes.
00:03:02.660 --> 00:03:09.540
Phil: And in fact, I always use dust, I mean like a dust cloth to clean your monitor.
00:03:11.100 --> 00:03:11.880
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
00:03:11.900 --> 00:03:25.680
Phil: But if someone's actually gone and touched your monitor and you do have to clean it or your screen, just warm water with a microfiber cloth is the way to go, making sure you wipe only in one direction.
00:03:25.980 --> 00:03:26.620
Tom: Absolutely.
00:03:27.860 --> 00:03:32.400
Phil: So those screen things, man, come on, they leave streaking, they're terrible, it's bad.
00:03:32.460 --> 00:03:33.220
Phil: It's bad for you.
00:03:33.220 --> 00:03:41.660
Phil: And another thing that's bad for you, have you kept up on the, we'll just hit some of the big items in the news this week, we'll get the Tom Towers reacts to the news.
00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:48.140
Phil: But of course, this will come as no surprise, because, you know, this has been everything.
00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:49.660
Phil: It's been the big story.
00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:59.120
Phil: The thing I'm most interested about is, have you looked over the new Nvidia graphics card, the RTX 3080?
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.940
Tom: 3080, 3070 and 3060, in fact.
00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:21.540
Tom: And this is probably bigger news than the Xbox Series S and the price of the X, because everyone was anticipating a very unimpressive series of Nvidia cards coming up and at extraordinary prices.
00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:41.220
Tom: But what we ended up with is incredible for the complete opposite reason, in that the 3070, at least on paper, is essentially a 2080 Ti that is only $500 in the US, which is just an extraordinary deal.
00:04:41.760 --> 00:04:44.160
Phil: I was going to say, this is really your area of expertise.
00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:53.660
Phil: I'm looking at the prices of these, and the 3090 is going to go for $2500 for the Founder Edition.
00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:55.700
Tom: I think it's $1500, isn't it?
00:04:56.060 --> 00:04:58.720
Phil: Well, $2500, that's Australian money.
00:04:59.320 --> 00:05:05.760
Phil: And the 3080 is going for $1140, which sounds insane to me.
00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:11.760
Phil: But if you actually look at the thing, I mean, it's a beautiful piece of engineering, and I'm sure it's very capable.
00:05:11.780 --> 00:05:20.540
Phil: And again, you know that I'm a neophyte when it comes to graphics, so would it be worth the jump?
00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:23.260
Phil: I mean, what games would actually make use of that?
00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:24.640
Tom: Well, presently none.
00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:45.620
Tom: Well, actually, certainly the 2080 Ti, if you were to attempt to play Metro Exodus in 4K with the highest ray tracing settings on, it hovers around 60 FPS, if I remember consistently, but you're not getting much higher than that.
00:05:46.080 --> 00:06:02.060
Tom: So when it comes to even more demanding 4K titles with ray tracing, then it's conceivable that the 3080 and 3090 will actually be being utilised.
00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:10.180
Tom: But unless you are playing ray tracing at 4K, it probably is not very useful to have.
00:06:10.960 --> 00:06:13.620
Phil: I'm just seeing here, you can get a 2080 Ti.
00:06:14.640 --> 00:06:18.420
Phil: The cheapest is like a thousand bucks from MSI.
00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:23.060
Phil: And then they also have some for like 1800 bucks, 2300 bucks.
00:06:23.080 --> 00:06:25.580
Phil: So I guess I don't really understand the difference there.
00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.960
Phil: I guess it's all in terms of configurations with cooling fans and other things like that.
00:06:30.460 --> 00:06:33.340
Tom: Well, were you comparing the 2080 and the 2080 Ti?
00:06:33.820 --> 00:06:36.360
Phil: Just the 2080 Ti is all I was looking for.
00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:39.680
Phil: And these are all Australian prices on eBay.
00:06:40.880 --> 00:06:43.400
Phil: Even so, a thousand bucks for a video card.
00:06:43.420 --> 00:06:45.520
Phil: I mean, like at this point, would you go...
00:06:45.540 --> 00:06:52.420
Phil: Would you say, no, don't get a 2080 Ti because of the RTX 3080?
00:06:53.380 --> 00:06:54.560
Tom: You would not want to get...
00:06:55.540 --> 00:07:10.600
Tom: The only video card that would still be useful to purchase at the moment would be in the realm of very good deals on things like the 1650 and more budget-orientated cards.
00:07:11.700 --> 00:07:20.460
Phil: Because, yeah, you basically buy these cheaper ones because that's where you're going to get the most bang for your buck without feeling like you're going to have to make a major reinvestment in a short amount of time.
00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:21.020
Tom: Exactly.
00:07:21.440 --> 00:07:27.120
Phil: Yeah, and a 1650 TI, I'm having trouble getting a price for it, but what do you think they go for right now?
00:07:28.460 --> 00:07:38.700
Tom: When I was looking at them a while ago, if I remember correctly, and my memory is probably completely wrong, they were around the $500 mark.
00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:47.000
Phil: That's amazing value, which is kind of a funny thing for me to say, given the next topic, if you're ready to move on to that.
00:07:47.440 --> 00:08:00.040
Tom: Yep, and just last thing, the main appeal of these cards is definitely just for higher resolution rendering at this stage and things like ray tracing.
00:08:00.080 --> 00:08:13.420
Tom: So if you were playing games at 1080p, you really did not need more than a 1650 unless you were targeting ultra and ray tracing features in everything.
00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.320
Phil: Would it help for VR and stuff like that?
00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:19.900
Tom: Well, again, it depends on if you're targeting ultra.
00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:28.080
Tom: If you are going for ultra, and because a lot of VR is at least 1440p, then it does help in VR as well.
00:08:28.140 --> 00:08:34.820
Tom: But you can easily get away with something like the 1650ti with VR if you're playing on medium.
00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.400
Phil: You haven't dropped into VR yet, have you?
00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:40.340
Tom: No, I haven't.
00:08:40.760 --> 00:08:41.080
Phil: Yeah.
00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:42.300
Phil: Any interest there or?
00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:44.180
Tom: I'm definitely interested in trying it.
00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:44.840
Phil: Yeah.
00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:47.460
Phil: It's just a matter of getting the right rig or?
00:08:48.080 --> 00:09:02.120
Tom: Well, I would need to try a low budget version of it because the odds of it being unusable is pretty high, considering the weight of it and the likelihood of nausea.
00:09:02.680 --> 00:09:03.000
Phil: Yeah.
00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:03.360
Phil: Yeah.
00:09:03.380 --> 00:09:04.580
Phil: And I'm the same way.
00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:18.300
Phil: It's like, I'm interested, but realistically, with the short bursts of time I have for gaming every day, I'm not really going to get immersed in a thing, and I really don't want to spend that kind of money until I can try before I buy.
00:09:19.220 --> 00:09:31.160
Phil: And trying before you buy in these days, I was going to say it would be great if these VR rig manufacturers could send you a loaner sort of thing, but in these unprecedented times, that's probably not a good idea.
00:09:31.820 --> 00:09:38.820
Phil: Speaking of which, for our listeners that don't know, you're based in the hotspot in Australia of this whole COVID thing.
00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:40.860
Phil: Are you guys still in complete lockdown?
00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.620
Tom: We are still in stage 4 lockdown, yes.
00:09:45.060 --> 00:09:49.740
Phil: Yeah, which basically means that you can't be out after 8 o'clock at night.
00:09:49.760 --> 00:09:54.520
Tom: I think there's an 8 o'clock curfew, but that is I think about to change to 9 o'clock.
00:09:55.060 --> 00:09:55.440
Phil: Yeah.
00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:02.420
Tom: And you can go out for non-work reasons or shopping to exercise for one hour, I believe.
00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:08.200
Phil: It sounds really extreme for someone who's not living under those circumstances.
00:10:09.160 --> 00:10:09.800
Tom: Potentially.
00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:21.040
Phil: So the other, I mean, probably the biggest news, of course, for the last week, has been the Xbox Series X and the Xbox Series S pricing and launch dates.
00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:36.660
Phil: They're going to come out November 10th, and the prices in the United States are 500 bucks or $4.99 for the X, and then the S Series is only going to be $499.
00:10:36.680 --> 00:10:37.440
Tom: $300, right?
00:10:38.260 --> 00:10:41.260
Phil: $300, yes, $299, which is incredible.
00:10:42.020 --> 00:10:50.300
Phil: The only downside about that is that it doesn't have a disc, and it has fairly limited onboard storage.
00:10:50.940 --> 00:11:05.480
Phil: And given that the whole value proposition of the Xbox is Game Pass, and the fact that you won't be able to use a disc, so therefore you're going to have to download games, that sort of, I think, hamstrings the Series S.
00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:08.600
Tom: It should be easy to upgrade the storage though, shouldn't it?
00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:20.180
Phil: Well, they're using a proprietary storage, so it's not like what we've become accustomed to over the last couple of generations with just hooking up an SD drive, an external USB drive.
00:11:21.040 --> 00:11:27.260
Phil: On the Xbox, you actually, there is a proprietary plug, which is unlike anything that's out there already.
00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:33.300
Phil: So you'll only be able to use Xbox-licensed memory upgrades.
00:11:33.760 --> 00:11:36.260
Tom: Surely, there'll be a converter for that?
00:11:37.180 --> 00:11:38.080
Phil: Yeah, possibly.
00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:40.300
Phil: And whether or not Microsoft will allow it.
00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:41.900
Tom: If not, what is the storage on it?
00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:51.440
Phil: It's got 1 terabyte of storage on board, which would be what basically you can download Call of Duty Modern Warfare and APAC.
00:11:53.260 --> 00:11:56.260
Phil: So I think that really does hamstring it.
00:11:56.280 --> 00:12:01.720
Tom: What appeared at first to be an amazing deal is suddenly not looking so good.
00:12:02.260 --> 00:12:20.060
Tom: While you would be hoping for there to be a converter so that you can plug a normal SSD in or something to that effect, the description of it is that it has an internal 1 terabyte SSD and that there is an expansion slot on the rear to add an optional 1 terabyte SSD.
00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:30.800
Tom: And with the case of the Wii U, for instance, you were, without homebrewing it, limited to a maximum hard drive size.
00:12:30.820 --> 00:12:39.520
Tom: So if they're limiting you to 1 terabyte unless you are doing homebrew stuff, that is absolutely horrendous.
00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:43.340
Phil: And I think also, you know, you say, well, what about a converter?
00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:47.780
Phil: I'm pretty sure Microsoft's going to have this locked down for security and piracy reasons.
00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:54.700
Phil: They don't want anything accessible going next to it, which is probably why they've gone with this proprietary adapter.
00:12:55.580 --> 00:13:00.400
Phil: Though of course this thing will still have USBs, so it's kind of, yeah, who knows?
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:06.140
Phil: But I can't imagine Microsoft will tolerate dongles.
00:13:06.280 --> 00:13:07.340
Phil: But we'll see.
00:13:07.520 --> 00:13:10.540
Phil: Because everything else they're doing is extremely consumer-friendly.
00:13:11.680 --> 00:13:24.880
Phil: The price down here in Australian dollars will be $749 Australian, which translates to about $585 US.
00:13:25.180 --> 00:13:27.300
Tom: Typically that's for the Series X.
00:13:28.020 --> 00:13:29.780
Phil: That's for the Series X, yes.
00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:45.840
Phil: But when you add in GST, which our sales tax is included in that, whereas in the United States, depending on the state you're in, you're paying 10% to 12% of sales tax, then there are ways to skirt that by buying online.
00:13:46.520 --> 00:13:50.180
Phil: Amazon no longer is a way to do that, but other smaller retailers.
00:13:50.560 --> 00:14:00.520
Phil: So when you look at that $500 in the US for the Series X, with, say, a 10% sales tax, you're actually paying $550.
00:14:00.560 --> 00:14:04.780
Phil: We're paying $585 here in US dollars.
00:14:04.800 --> 00:14:07.720
Phil: So we're not really getting pounded that much.
00:14:08.020 --> 00:14:09.040
Tom: That's pretty impressive.
00:14:09.060 --> 00:14:11.300
Tom: There's basically no markup on it at all.
00:14:12.180 --> 00:14:21.740
Phil: There's no tax, basically, to get it here to Australia, which is considerable, which is a considerable concession, given that we're a smaller population.
00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:26.880
Phil: It costs more to ship stuff to Australia than it does to major population centers.
00:14:27.500 --> 00:14:29.960
Phil: So I don't begrudge them on that one.
00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:34.600
Phil: I thought it was going to be $500 US, and it was.
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:38.720
Phil: The surprise was the value of the Series S.
00:14:39.920 --> 00:14:43.700
Phil: $299 for a brand new console with the specs that it's got.
00:14:44.160 --> 00:14:45.200
Phil: It's unbelievable.
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:58.340
Phil: And so if you're in an internet-friendly country, and you don't mind constantly deleting and re-downloading your games, and you don't mind that, it's an extremely great value.
00:14:59.260 --> 00:15:06.280
Phil: But they're probably looking at, you know, small G gamers will get that, because they're only going to want two or three games.
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:08.600
Phil: They'll try a game, delete it off, you know.
00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:17.260
Phil: So it's a great message, and I think Microsoft has done a tremendous job in keeping this all under their hats for so long.
00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:26.740
Phil: And it really puts Sony in a difficult situation, because they've already announced their two models, and the only difference between the two is one has a drive and one doesn't.
00:15:27.580 --> 00:15:29.520
Phil: Rather a disk drive and one doesn't.
00:15:30.920 --> 00:15:39.540
Tom: So it will be interesting seeing the price of the PS5, given that they historically are always the more expensive console.
00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.460
Phil: I'm thinking 800 bucks here on the store.
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:47.460
Tom: Have any consoles previously launched at more than 500 US recently?
00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:49.120
Phil: No.
00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:49.980
Phil: No.
00:15:50.680 --> 00:15:51.780
Phil: No, that's been the cap.
00:15:51.800 --> 00:15:52.820
Phil: That's been the very top.
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:58.540
Phil: Like the PlayStation 3, I think was 499.
00:15:58.720 --> 00:15:59.620
Phil: It could have been higher.
00:15:59.920 --> 00:16:00.740
Phil: I can't remember.
00:16:00.920 --> 00:16:08.040
Phil: But I don't see the PlayStation down here being any less than 800 bucks, unfortunately.
00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:14.800
Phil: And my guess for the state will be that it will be 549.
00:16:14.920 --> 00:16:25.920
Tom: I'm thinking maybe the Disclos version will be $500 if they really want to not be in the same realm as what Microsoft is doing.
00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:32.700
Tom: I think the original PS3, it had the harder and smaller hard drive version.
00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:37.660
Tom: I think the smaller hard drive version was 500 and the larger one was 600.
00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:41.900
Tom: So they might be doing something similar again.
00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:51.380
Tom: But that is a tall order for them to be competing with the $300 Series S.
00:16:51.480 --> 00:17:02.600
Tom: But of course, with the PS5, the only difference is the disc drive, whereas the Series S has a weaker GPU in it as well.
00:17:02.620 --> 00:17:11.220
Phil: Yeah, and can't do native 4K, but it can do 4K media, and that's where I think they're actually pulling a PlayStation 2 or a PlayStation 1.
00:17:11.380 --> 00:17:16.660
Phil: So whereas the PlayStation 2 was an affordable DVD player, which is why it sold so well.
00:17:18.260 --> 00:17:20.060
Tom: The PS3 as well with Blu-ray.
00:17:20.540 --> 00:17:24.320
Phil: And the PS3 with Blu-ray, although the value proposition wasn't there.
00:17:24.340 --> 00:17:27.360
Phil: But if you go to the small G Gamer...
00:17:27.840 --> 00:17:32.380
Tom: It was for the quality of the Blu-ray player in the PS3.
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:42.780
Tom: You could get cheap Blu-ray players, but if I remember correctly, it was the cheapest one that was of beginner enthusiast quality.
00:17:43.540 --> 00:17:59.140
Phil: So what I'm saying though with the Series S, if you haven't got a 4K player right now, for $299 US, you're getting the Xbox, basically the new Xbox.
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:04.040
Phil: It can play 4K media, can't play 4K games, but a small G game is not going to care about that anyway.
00:18:05.060 --> 00:18:11.380
Tom: I don't know if that's really good value though, given that you can get a $50 or $100 computer that will do 4K.
00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:17.180
Phil: Yeah, but again, we're talking about people who gaming isn't their primary disposition.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:22.520
Phil: They just have to have a gaming console in their house for various other things, like watching Netflix.
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.760
Phil: It's a brain dead way to get Netflix and other things into your house.
00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:47.980
Phil: And in addition to that, with Microsoft's financing, they're basically offering a $25 a month thing to get the game pass, which means you're going to get every new Xbox game quote for free, you know, on release.
00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.780
Phil: You know, so it just sounds like a great deal.
00:18:51.800 --> 00:18:55.980
Phil: And yeah, I think Sony is going to really struggle to catch up.
00:18:57.100 --> 00:19:05.920
Tom: But they have always positioned themselves as the more high end and expensive console.
00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:18.940
Tom: So as impressive as the price of the Series S is, it's still a somewhat similar situation to previous generations, particularly with the PS2 as a comparison.
00:19:19.620 --> 00:19:20.540
Phil: Oh, absolutely.
00:19:20.560 --> 00:19:24.560
Phil: And also on games as well, you know, Sony is saying, no, we're a games console.
00:19:24.620 --> 00:19:26.820
Phil: Yeah, we have these other things, but we're a game console.
00:19:26.820 --> 00:19:27.920
Phil: We have exclusives.
00:19:27.940 --> 00:19:33.700
Phil: We have 17 worldwide studios around the world, and we'll actually have games at launch.
00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:40.980
Phil: Whereas Microsoft, you know, with Halo Infinite falling off, you know, doesn't really have a great launch lineup.
00:19:41.780 --> 00:19:59.160
Phil: But again, all that stuff doesn't matter because capital G gamers are going to buy the great new tech at launch, and small g gamers aren't going to notice that there isn't a great lineup as long as it's got, you know, Madden and the recently re-released Tony Hawk 1 and 2, which is apparently phenomenal.
00:20:00.740 --> 00:20:03.300
Phil: So yeah, in any case, it's all good.
00:20:04.600 --> 00:20:13.360
Phil: I wasn't eager to get an Xbox Series X at launch just because it wasn't really a compelling game for me to get along with it, and that's always important at a launch.
00:20:15.180 --> 00:20:16.500
Phil: But yeah, it'll...
00:20:16.800 --> 00:20:17.380
Phil: It's still...
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:24.260
Phil: I'm still obviously very interested in the Xbox Series X as opposed to the S because of my internet limitations.
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:30.520
Phil: And so is either of them compelling to you now that you've got a supercomputer?
00:20:30.540 --> 00:20:43.100
Tom: If not for my computer, if I was considering getting a non-Nintendo console, it would absolutely be the Series S because that is just an incredible deal.
00:20:43.120 --> 00:20:51.320
Tom: You're essentially getting a 1440p high-end computer for $500.
00:20:52.060 --> 00:20:52.340
Phil: Yeah.
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:53.480
Phil: Yeah.
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:54.860
Phil: Yeah, it's great.
00:20:56.020 --> 00:20:59.820
Phil: Again, if not for the internet, I'd be pre-ordering an S today.
00:21:00.540 --> 00:21:12.260
Tom: Before we move on from Microsoft, you just reminded me of a game that I completely forgot about when we were doing the show notes that I have played the first level of, and I have to bring up.
00:21:12.280 --> 00:21:13.560
Tom: That is Halo 3.
00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:23.160
Tom: And we all remember how tremendously disappointed I was in the first level of Halo Reach.
00:21:24.120 --> 00:21:24.480
Phil: Yes.
00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:35.480
Tom: Yes, it was from the narrative to the gameplay to the look of the game, a tremendously disappointing experience.
00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:39.820
Tom: Halo 3, I am pleased to say, is the complete opposite.
00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:44.320
Tom: It is perhaps the best opening to a Halo that I have played.
00:21:45.140 --> 00:21:48.420
Tom: Coming from Reach, it's amazingly colourful.
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:56.280
Tom: It's like it's a combination of Killzone 3 and Crisis, but better than both visually.
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:02.860
Tom: The level design is on a completely different level.
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:43.220
Tom: There's a combination of corridor sections, absolutely, but even the corridor sections are usually within areas that you can move out of the corridors, and you can use the corridors as cover to fight enemies outside of the corridors on platforms or in little hollows, and you can move from hollow to hollow as well, completely ignoring the corridors, unlike in Halo Reach, which was really static environments that were just basically plain open areas without any sort of detail affecting how you were moving and where the enemies were.
00:22:45.120 --> 00:23:10.040
Tom: The story is not some terrible imperialist Call of Duty fanfiction as the Halo Reach opening was, but a very much on-point Halo 3 semi-serious science fiction The World Coming Together story, essentially the complete reverse of what Reach was.
00:23:10.040 --> 00:23:17.020
Tom: And maybe Reach later on subverts Halo 3, the Halo style, interestingly, but the opening certainly didn't.
00:23:18.540 --> 00:23:27.900
Tom: And just again on the great tone of the story, the grunt banter is brilliant and on another level compared to what it was in Reach.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:33.960
Tom: The enemies are more densely populated due to the better design.
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:38.000
Tom: It is just an absolutely perfect Halo opening.
00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:41.000
Phil: Does it start in a jungle setting?
00:23:41.020 --> 00:23:41.920
Phil: Yes, it does.
00:23:42.060 --> 00:23:43.460
Tom: No, it is in the jungle.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.760
Phil: I remember Halo 5, I remember Halo 1 and 2.
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.720
Phil: The game you're talking about, I remember now.
00:23:53.300 --> 00:23:55.780
Phil: But I can't remember Halo 4 for the life of me.
00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:57.760
Tom: I think a lot of people can't.
00:23:58.580 --> 00:23:59.060
Phil: Yeah.
00:23:59.120 --> 00:24:08.040
Phil: And well, Halo 3, I didn't like it at the time because I was so hyped up about it, you know.
00:24:08.060 --> 00:24:09.760
Tom: A lot of people were disappointed at the time.
00:24:09.760 --> 00:24:14.200
Tom: It was, yeah, the majority opinion was that it was a massive disappointment.
00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:19.220
Tom: But at this stage, I think a lot of people consider it to be the best.
00:24:19.580 --> 00:24:23.740
Tom: The ones people choose as the best, I think, is 3, Reach.
00:24:24.780 --> 00:24:27.840
Tom: I think ODST is the hipster choice.
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:31.460
Tom: And obviously 2 and 1 as well.
00:24:32.100 --> 00:24:34.020
Phil: Yeah, well, Reach is the best for sure.
00:24:34.220 --> 00:24:37.220
Phil: And then 1 is my favorite.
00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:41.140
Tom: Well, Reach certainly has the worst opening without any comparison.
00:24:41.800 --> 00:24:44.960
Phil: Yeah, I don't remember, but I've only played it twice, I think.
00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:46.300
Phil: But on Halo 3...
00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:50.700
Tom: Well, that might be an issue if you've played the game twice and you do not remember the opening.
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:51.520
Phil: Can't remember, yeah.
00:24:52.100 --> 00:24:53.460
Phil: There's a lot of things I don't remember.
00:24:53.780 --> 00:24:57.060
Phil: But hey, Master Chief Collection, I do have that.
00:24:57.080 --> 00:24:58.780
Phil: So it looks like I'm in for a big update.
00:24:58.820 --> 00:25:01.640
Phil: And I've written Halo 3 down on the list.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:07.800
Phil: Speaking of the list, we've both been playing a game.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:14.300
Phil: I really wanted to know what our next itch.io game is, if you can think about that while we're talking about stuff.
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.860
Phil: I don't think we have to spend too much time on Nintendo.
00:25:16.860 --> 00:25:28.000
Phil: I mean, there is a rumor that a Switch Pro is coming out that will not be portable at all and will provide 4K support on some level.
00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:34.640
Phil: I don't think it's entirely necessary for Nintendo to be doing this, but it won't hurt.
00:25:34.660 --> 00:25:41.640
Phil: I mean, it gives gamers another thing to buy, and then they can continue down two tracks that way.
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:46.900
Phil: But I don't think that a non-portable...
00:25:47.280 --> 00:25:51.620
Phil: I think a non-portable Switch is as compelling as a non-dockable Switch.
00:25:51.820 --> 00:25:54.920
Phil: I don't see the point.
00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:03.600
Tom: I think a Light is a more compelling console than a non-portable at all Switch would be.
00:26:05.320 --> 00:26:14.440
Tom: Because there are people who only play handheld games, or would be interested in only playing Switch games as handheld games.
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:28.920
Tom: I'm not sure how many people would be interested in playing a Switch that can upscale to 4K, but does not have the portability of either the standard console or the Light.
00:26:30.040 --> 00:26:35.240
Phil: Well, the portability for me enables me to play so many more hours of gaming every week.
00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:40.580
Phil: So for it to be non-portable is a deal breaker for me.
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:46.700
Phil: And I just don't think there's enough people that would want upgraded graphics if they can just play it at home and only at home.
00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:56.600
Phil: I've got to say I play my Switch so much portably that when I do dock it and I play like Deadly Premonition 2 on the big screen, it's very impressive.
00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:00.840
Phil: It's like, oh my god, this is incredible.
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:06.480
Phil: Because you're just playing it portably, you put it onto the dock, you pick up your pro controller and keep going.
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:13.020
Phil: And just seeing everything that you're so used to seeing on a small screen come up on a big screen, it's just magical.
00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:18.980
Tom: So it's better fidelity than the Wii U then, because a lot of games are on the Wii U.
00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:32.060
Tom: If you're playing it on the gamepad, then you switch to a 1080p monitor or television screen, and it's 720p and you think it looks a lot better on a tiny screen.
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:34.560
Phil: Look, there's nothing...
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:40.760
Phil: The other Nintendo stuff is obviously the Mario 35th anniversary, which other shows have talked to to death.
00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:42.960
Tom: And it's a terrible deal.
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:46.740
Phil: Yeah, it's terrible, obviously.
00:27:47.380 --> 00:27:55.440
Phil: It does make me want to go back and play Mario Sunshine on my GameCube, but other than that, it's not great.
00:27:55.460 --> 00:27:58.340
Phil: They did give away All Stars for free, but come on.
00:27:58.360 --> 00:28:04.620
Phil: I mean, they gave it away for free to people who are subscribing like myself on a monthly basis to Nintendo Online.
00:28:05.020 --> 00:28:07.740
Phil: And it's like, well, this should be there already anyway.
00:28:07.820 --> 00:28:14.220
Phil: I mean, their offerings for the online NES and SNES libraries is pathetic and pitiful.
00:28:15.340 --> 00:28:17.360
Tom: So you can only get that by subscribing?
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:18.740
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
00:28:18.760 --> 00:28:20.260
Tom: So it's not available in the store?
00:28:20.280 --> 00:28:21.920
Phil: Oh, yeah.
00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:23.620
Phil: I don't know, honestly.
00:28:23.660 --> 00:28:24.540
Phil: That's a good question.
00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:29.880
Phil: And the thing that's interesting about it, Tom, is that this is the 24th month.
00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:37.100
Phil: So if you subscribe to Nintendo Online the first time around, this is where your second renewal subscription is coming up.
00:28:37.660 --> 00:28:43.040
Phil: So I believe this was an enticement just to continue doing it.
00:28:43.300 --> 00:28:51.160
Phil: Because honestly, other than Tetris 99, there's no reason to have Nintendo Online because the online offerings for their free stores...
00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:52.720
Tom: Splatoon 2, I believe.
00:28:53.280 --> 00:28:57.920
Phil: Yeah, Splatoon 2 and Mario Kart, you know, Tetris 99.
00:28:59.520 --> 00:29:00.960
Phil: Those are all good reasons to have it.
00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:02.140
Tom: Is Rocket League on Switch?
00:29:03.300 --> 00:29:04.060
Phil: It is, as well.
00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:05.140
Tom: There's four reasons.
00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:07.300
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
00:29:07.620 --> 00:29:09.160
Phil: I mean, and it's a good value.
00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:09.740
Phil: It's only like...
00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:10.720
Tom: It's not good value.
00:29:11.060 --> 00:29:13.040
Tom: You are paying for Nintendo Online.
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.140
Tom: In no world is that good value.
00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:17.900
Phil: Yes, you're right.
00:29:19.100 --> 00:29:19.940
Phil: My apologies.
00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:28.000
Phil: But they did announce that Mario 35, which is like a Tetris 99 thing, but you haven't played Tetris 99, so you wouldn't fully get it.
00:29:30.800 --> 00:29:31.120
Phil: Yeah.
00:29:31.260 --> 00:29:36.080
Phil: Okay, well, with that, I think we're probably ready to talk about a game you're playing.
00:29:36.540 --> 00:29:46.540
Phil: Last time we talked about a 90s shooter that I did look at, it's 20 bucks on the Switch, but I just want to finish Deadly Premonition 2 before I get another Switch game.
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:47.980
Phil: What was it called?
00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:50.060
Tom: Project Warlock.
00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:52.080
Phil: Project Warlock, right.
00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:55.500
Phil: And we talked about Iron Maiden, which is a similar type of game.
00:29:56.280 --> 00:29:58.180
Phil: You've actually been playing Iron Harvest.
00:29:58.440 --> 00:29:59.200
Tom: Yes, I have.
00:29:59.620 --> 00:30:07.440
Tom: And this is an RTS, I believe, originally a Kickstarter title by King Art Games.
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:25.580
Tom: And followers of The Game Under Podcast should be well familiar with King Art Games because they are the developer of The Book of Unwritten Tales, which was a very successful adventure game series in the 2010s.
00:30:26.260 --> 00:30:34.200
Tom: So it's interesting that they're making an RTS in the first place, but they apparently at one point made a turn-based strategy game.
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:41.640
Tom: And they have made a tactical RPG, so this is apparently within their wheelhouse to some degree.
00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:46.340
Phil: So this is a German developer, and then Iron Harvest is available.
00:30:46.360 --> 00:30:48.240
Phil: You're playing it on PC or Xbox?
00:30:48.260 --> 00:30:51.260
Tom: I was playing the open beta on PC.
00:30:51.280 --> 00:30:52.480
Phil: Okay.
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:58.080
Tom: But it is now out, so I am not currently playing more of it yet.
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:07.740
Tom: I may get it at some point in Steam sale, but obviously no one with any sense of self-dignity buys anything on Steam that is not heavily discounted.
00:31:09.380 --> 00:31:16.720
Tom: But the open beta was actually about, I think, five of the ten missions of the first of three campaigns.
00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:21.260
Tom: So it was a reasonably in-depth demo that anyone could play.
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:26.240
Tom: Being an open beta, you didn't need to try and get into it or anything like that.
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:33.880
Tom: And the whole hook of the game is that it is an alternative history dieselpunk setting.
00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:57.620
Tom: Basically, it's set during the, I think, just after the First World War in the lead-up to the second in Polania, which is obviously Poland, which is stuck between Saxony, I think, they're called, Germany, and the Rusviets, which is obviously a combination of Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union.
00:31:59.100 --> 00:32:05.920
Tom: And also being an adventure game company, you would expect the story to be somewhat interesting.
00:32:06.620 --> 00:32:19.940
Tom: And the hook at the beginning is essentially you, it's more in the vein of a company of heroes than it is something like StarCraft, although there are base elements to it.
00:32:20.120 --> 00:32:28.980
Tom: It's more about the minute-to-minute strategy in combat than it is about mining resources and harvesting stuff.
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:47.480
Tom: And an example of this is in the levels where you do have bases, while the harvesting of resources is important, the main way you actually get it is by taking over enemy oil rigs and mines and things like that as you are exploring the map.
00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:52.880
Tom: And then at some point, you reach an area where you have to set up base and build things.
00:32:53.380 --> 00:33:01.400
Tom: And that's made a lot easier by having already taken over previous mines and things like that that the enemy had.
00:33:01.420 --> 00:33:16.980
Tom: So even when building is important, at least in the first half of the campaign, it's usually as part of a mission, rather than as you're plonked in an area with a base and you have to go out of the base and slowly take over the map from there, destroying enemy bases and so forth.
00:33:17.500 --> 00:33:29.640
Tom: So it is much more in the vein of something like Company of Heroes, and as a result as well, the heroes and special units and so forth are more important than in something like StarCraft as well.
00:33:29.800 --> 00:33:50.420
Tom: And the story of the Polanyian campaign is about a Polanyian peasant girl, and it starts off with a hilarious introduction, teaching the controls where you have a snow battle with a group of boys who don't want to play war games with you because you're a girl.
00:33:51.860 --> 00:34:03.020
Tom: And this sense of humour and amusing, but also serious tone to the story is kept throughout, and it's got a lot of interesting historical references.
00:34:03.040 --> 00:34:20.820
Tom: For instance, the girl during the story befriends a bear who goes around as a medic later on healing your troops, which is a reference to a bear that the Soviet Union had in a squad as a mascot at some point.
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:30.580
Tom: I think, not sure if it was in Poland or a different part of the Soviet Union, but there's many references like that.
00:34:30.820 --> 00:34:35.780
Phil: Yeah, I just watched the theatrical intro, and it's comically bombastic.
00:34:36.460 --> 00:34:46.240
Phil: And it's got the bear, it's got the robots with the glowing eyes, it's got a little boy playing with what looks to be battle tanks now that I'm watching gameplay video.
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:51.220
Phil: I'm looking at the gameplay video of it in real-time strategies.
00:34:51.240 --> 00:35:10.600
Phil: Like, the only one that I've really played beyond Castles 2 was Halo Wars, and I was so enthralled with the genre from Halo Wars because it was made by one of the preeminent developers of RTS.
00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:17.920
Phil: I forget their names right now, but they were subsequently closed by Microsoft, and it was their last game, in fact.
00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:26.500
Phil: And I absolutely loved the genre, but for the fact that it created an extreme level of anxiety.
00:35:27.860 --> 00:35:33.280
Phil: I was so stressed out while I was playing it that I just couldn't play it again.
00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:42.460
Phil: You know, I'll play turn-based strategies, but real-time strategies just always had me worried about what I was missing or what was happening off-screen.
00:35:44.140 --> 00:35:47.980
Phil: But I'm looking at the gameplay of the beta.
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:58.160
Phil: It looks really good in terms of how it operates, but they're jumping backwards and forwards from the front line back to defending their bases, and that's the thing that just stresses me out.
00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:03.740
Phil: Is that a common trepidation that players of these things have?
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:10.960
Tom: Well, I don't think players of them would have that trepidation, but it may put some people off the genre itself.
00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:15.000
Phil: I just want to see the whole battlefield, you know?
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:17.980
Tom: And you're limited by Fog of War as well.
00:36:19.120 --> 00:36:19.960
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
00:36:20.100 --> 00:36:32.040
Tom: But it would actually be an interesting mechanic in an RTS to have a drone-eyes view over the entirety of a battlefield.
00:36:33.120 --> 00:36:36.940
Phil: That would make me less stressful because I'm always worried about what I'm not seeing.
00:36:36.940 --> 00:36:42.600
Phil: So I was always just moving around the whole screen the whole time, making sure that I wasn't missing something.
00:36:44.580 --> 00:36:46.940
Phil: Yeah, but talking just...
00:36:47.100 --> 00:36:57.560
Phil: I'll let you get back to it in a second, but talking about playing pre-Baters and early access, I've only ever played one early access game, and I don't know why.
00:36:57.580 --> 00:36:58.380
Phil: I must have been drunk.
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:01.600
Phil: But I bought Prison Architect.
00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:15.760
Phil: And I played the Beta, and I had fun with it, but it was janky as hell, and I just played so much of it that by the time the game came out and I had full access to it, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:16.520 --> 00:37:27.600
Phil: And I keep updating it, thinking I'm going to go back to it, but because I had the early access impression of the game, I'm still like, got that thing in my head that, yeah, well, I've sort of...
00:37:28.020 --> 00:37:35.540
Phil: I've already enjoyed the best parts of it, and it was janky, and that sort of turns me off from going back to playing the full game.
00:37:36.540 --> 00:37:37.300
Phil: So I'm not sure...
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:41.080
Phil: Again, I don't know if this is a common thing, but I've just got to...
00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:44.700
Phil: I just think early access is a bad idea.
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:55.980
Phil: It's a good idea in terms of getting money up front, but from a gameplay perspective, I think it sort of shoots you in the foot, at least for a small share of the population such as myself.
00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:58.680
Tom: I think it depends on the game and how it's done.
00:38:00.340 --> 00:38:03.900
Tom: For instance, this was basically like an extended demo.
00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:07.780
Tom: That works pretty well.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:27.120
Tom: The one thing you would potentially be annoyed about, I anyway would, other than the Steam sale, if you could not continue from where you were up to, I would want to wait a while to continue because the five missions is several hours worth of gameplay depending on how fast you are.
00:38:27.140 --> 00:38:30.520
Tom: And I'm not particularly good at RTSs.
00:38:30.540 --> 00:38:36.100
Tom: I'm okay at turn-based strategy games, at least tabletop ones.
00:38:36.520 --> 00:38:43.360
Tom: But RTSs, though, I have a reasonable amount of experience playing quite a few of them, and I do greatly enjoy the genre.
00:38:43.380 --> 00:38:50.260
Tom: I'm not good at them because I'm terrible at the building aspect of them, for the most part.
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:55.360
Tom: So that would be several hours of redoing the same thing if you could not continue.
00:38:56.420 --> 00:39:03.600
Tom: But as I said, the building stuff was secondary, so I did not do too badly in it.
00:39:04.660 --> 00:39:14.700
Tom: And there are some issues with it, though, which hopefully are fixed in the final version, but the open beta was obviously just before the game released, so who knows?
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:17.900
Tom: But take this with a grain of salt in case they have been fixed.
00:39:18.340 --> 00:39:39.180
Tom: But there were numerous glitches where, with mechs that had the ability to embank themselves in an area and basically become an immobile turret, they would glitch into doing that themselves, and from then on, you could not move them.
00:39:39.220 --> 00:39:43.480
Tom: So you would have a unit stuck there that you could not replace.
00:39:43.600 --> 00:39:49.740
Tom: And being a company of hero style thing, the amount of units you have is extremely limited.
00:39:50.120 --> 00:40:04.960
Tom: So when you have a unit randomly just plonk itself down somewhere and become completely useless for the entire mission unless an enemy happens to wander over to it, that rather handicapped me on several occasions.
00:40:06.200 --> 00:40:10.280
Tom: So that would be extremely frustrating in the main game as well.
00:40:11.620 --> 00:40:44.560
Tom: The pathfinding of units as well is a little bit weird because one of the aesthetically really enjoyable things about the game is that the mechs can just walk through buildings and they will collapse, but the pathfinding of mechs, they will often not try to take the direct route somewhere, but walk all over the place to avoid stuff that they can walk through as if they are standard infantry, which also makes how you're attacking things a little bit awkward to plan as well.
00:40:45.980 --> 00:40:58.440
Tom: So there are issues like that, but with the exception of one mission that was simultaneously a pretty very interesting concept, was also a little bit annoying.
00:40:59.040 --> 00:41:05.320
Tom: Basically, you were escorting a train that could shoot mortar through an area from one side of the map to the other.
00:41:05.980 --> 00:41:13.700
Tom: So on the one hand, this is a really cool and interesting idea that you were escorting this train that can also provide mortar support.
00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:20.840
Tom: On the other hand, it did become a bit of a slightly annoying escort mission as you were protecting the train.
00:41:21.740 --> 00:41:42.460
Tom: But most of the missions are really interestingly paced and do combine light base management and more standard Company of Heroes exploration and figuring out how to attack a base with taking into account the cover of the troops and all that sort of thing.
00:41:43.080 --> 00:41:49.860
Tom: And the other issue as well is mechs are rather overpowered, in my experience.
00:41:49.880 --> 00:42:06.880
Tom: So you essentially have, to my understanding of it, and take into account that I am not very good at RTSs, so I could have been completely wrong, there's not much motivation to actually use infantry once you unlock mechs other than engineers who repair mechs.
00:42:07.940 --> 00:42:10.040
Tom: And they're also a little bit overpowered as well.
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:39.120
Tom: So you essentially just make a squad of mechs, take into account that some mechs are better at killing mechs, and some are better at killing infantry, have basically an engineer to repair them when they take damage, and you're then not really in too much damage, and you also do not really need to take into account cover and how to attack enemies to the same degree as if you were using infantry because mechs can essentially blow up cover.
00:42:40.420 --> 00:42:45.520
Tom: So mechs seem to be tremendously overpowered, so it may also...
00:42:46.540 --> 00:43:06.280
Tom: That's certainly an issue as far as the campaign is concerned, and online it would probably make it less interesting just because you're probably involved in massive mech battles against each other, but obviously if you're playing against someone else, it won't feel like it's making it easier because they'll be doing the same thing.
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.300
Phil: The name of the game we're talking about is Iron Harvest.
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:11.100
Phil: It is a...
00:43:12.500 --> 00:43:13.040
Phil: Sounds like a...
00:43:13.520 --> 00:43:16.880
Phil: Because the RTS genre has kind of been fallen off lately.
00:43:17.720 --> 00:43:18.680
Tom: Due to MOBAs.
00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:20.120
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
00:43:20.120 --> 00:43:24.180
Phil: So it seems to be a pretty welcome reignition of the genre.
00:43:24.200 --> 00:43:27.500
Phil: It's available for Xbox, PlayStation 4 and PC.
00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:31.160
Phil: King Art is a German developer.
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:37.580
Phil: So when they're dealing with this World War I era staff, obviously in Germany there's...
00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:40.900
Phil: Post-World War I, pre-World War II.
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:41.500
Tom: Exactly.
00:43:42.060 --> 00:43:44.460
Phil: So it's the guys with the spiky helmets.
00:43:45.060 --> 00:43:46.720
Phil: We haven't gotten to Nazism yet.
00:43:46.740 --> 00:43:47.180
Tom: Correct.
00:43:48.580 --> 00:43:54.500
Phil: So it's generally getting a very good response from people who enjoy the RTS genre.
00:43:55.600 --> 00:43:59.060
Phil: So everything you're saying about it seems particularly favourable.
00:43:59.080 --> 00:43:59.820
Tom: Yep, definitely.
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:11.320
Tom: There are those issues that could be really frustrating at times, but it is, outside of that, a really enjoyable, lightish RTS experience.
00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:14.280
Tom: And the setting is absolutely fantastic.
00:44:14.300 --> 00:44:16.520
Tom: The mechs look tremendously good.
00:44:16.540 --> 00:44:19.980
Tom: They fit the era absolutely perfectly.
00:44:20.080 --> 00:44:32.240
Tom: And the combination of historical references as well, for instance, Tesla is going around in it as a character in the background, or at least he's referenced, and lots of stuff like that.
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:35.600
Phil: Yeah, it looks like a lot of fun.
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:45.200
Phil: I've got to say that one thing I wanted to ask you about, because it's something I've been thinking a lot of since I've been playing Night in the Woods, is the audio design.
00:44:45.260 --> 00:44:48.320
Phil: In an RTS, is that kind of neither here nor there, really?
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.100
Tom: It's probably not as important as most other genres.
00:44:52.520 --> 00:44:57.860
Phil: Yeah, and that's because your focus is so enthralled with what's going on in the screen.
00:44:57.880 --> 00:44:59.260
Phil: I mean, it's just...
00:44:59.740 --> 00:45:02.720
Phil: RTSs are just fucking sensory overload.
00:45:03.160 --> 00:45:26.300
Tom: But I do think there's two aspects where they're important, and one of the reasons that I played Age of Empires and StarCraft over other games is the first thing that the audio is important to is in the voice acting, in giving the units and so forth some character, which adds to the enjoyment greatly.
00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:55.140
Tom: The other thing is from a tactile perspective, the sounds related to what you're doing in StarCraft, for instance, in terms of when you're starting unit building and looking around the map and navigating unit trees and all that sort of stuff makes what can in other RTSs be a slightly cumbersome and annoying experience as a satisfying and engaging part of the gameplay as well.
00:45:56.580 --> 00:45:59.600
Phil: Well, do you have much more to say about Iron Harvest?
00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:05.760
Tom: No, but it was, in spite of some pretty annoying issues, a pretty favourable first impression.
00:46:07.040 --> 00:46:07.500
Phil: Indeed.
00:46:07.520 --> 00:46:12.280
Phil: Hey, before we get on to Sky, Children of Light, you've done a...
00:46:13.160 --> 00:46:14.440
Phil: Well, we'll get into that in a moment.
00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:21.020
Phil: I've got to tell you, I'm seeing a lot more vegan food around that I didn't really expect to see.
00:46:21.460 --> 00:46:25.460
Phil: Peters is an ice cream company here in Australia.
00:46:25.720 --> 00:46:26.780
Phil: I don't know who owns them.
00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:29.420
Phil: They have like a vegan drumstick now.
00:46:29.600 --> 00:46:31.360
Phil: So Australians know what a drumstick is.
00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:37.840
Phil: I'm not going to waste our international listeners describing what it is, but I was just walking around and on the sign it said vegan.
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:48.660
Phil: You know, it's like some coffee drumstick thing, which isn't hard to believe, because if you taste that ice cream, it doesn't sound, it doesn't taste like, it has any dairy content whatsoever.
00:46:49.540 --> 00:46:56.360
Phil: And then I bumbled into the fact that Domino's has a broad array of vegan pizzas.
00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:01.280
Phil: Because it's something I have at my company, and I said, no, no, you know, I don't eat pizza.
00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:07.460
Phil: And then they ordered like a part of, a whole bunch of vegan pizzas, so I could have lunch with them.
00:47:08.160 --> 00:47:14.840
Phil: And there was like four or five different varieties of Domino's vegan pizzas.
00:47:16.180 --> 00:47:17.120
Phil: Are you aware of this?
00:47:17.200 --> 00:47:17.900
Tom: Yes, I am.
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:20.720
Tom: I have in fact tried the vegan drumstick.
00:47:21.640 --> 00:47:22.340
Phil: Oh, you have?
00:47:22.660 --> 00:47:23.040
Tom: Yes.
00:47:23.660 --> 00:47:26.200
Tom: I thought this may have even come up on the show.
00:47:26.560 --> 00:47:27.180
Phil: No, no.
00:47:27.500 --> 00:47:28.280
Tom: Previously.
00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:29.840
Phil: No, no, no.
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:31.100
Phil: There's news to me.
00:47:31.120 --> 00:47:33.920
Phil: And it just tasted like vegan ice cream, right?
00:47:34.140 --> 00:47:34.760
Tom: Correct.
00:47:35.080 --> 00:47:38.620
Tom: Not the best vegan ice cream I've tasted by far.
00:47:39.040 --> 00:47:48.140
Tom: And the biggest difference between the normal drumstick and the vegan one is in the texture, more so than the flavor.
00:47:48.160 --> 00:47:55.580
Tom: The vegan one is a bit more gritty as one might expect and less prone to melting.
00:47:56.460 --> 00:48:05.680
Phil: You know, a sanitarium, an Australian company down here, has a vegan ice cream called So Good, which is made of soy protein.
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:14.200
Phil: And I find it to be great, but then also I've been a vegan for a long, long time, so I probably don't even know what real ice cream tastes like at this point.
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:18.540
Phil: But hey, thumbs up for the vegan Domino's pizzas.
00:48:18.820 --> 00:48:22.800
Phil: They tasted just like a Domino pizza, or my memory of them.
00:48:23.860 --> 00:48:30.640
Phil: So yeah, very low in terms of its quality, but it was Domino's pizza.
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:32.620
Phil: They've replicated it exactly.
00:48:33.580 --> 00:48:38.880
Phil: So the cheese was just like you'd imagine, and the fake meat was just like you'd imagine.
00:48:38.900 --> 00:48:40.480
Phil: So yeah, thumbs up.
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.000
Tom: It tasted just as fake as the real thing.
00:48:43.580 --> 00:48:50.620
Phil: If you want a crap pizza vegan experience, I thoroughly endorse the vegan Domino's pizza.
00:48:50.980 --> 00:48:57.800
Tom: And for those listening at home, the owner of Peter's ice cream is Fronieri, which I'm sure we've all heard of.
00:48:58.840 --> 00:48:59.900
Phil: No, I haven't heard of them.
00:49:00.340 --> 00:49:07.720
Tom: They are an English ice cream manufacturer with their headquarters in Lee Ming Bar, North Yorkshire.
00:49:08.200 --> 00:49:09.280
Phil: Wow, that's great.
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:12.900
Phil: I thought they'd be owned by some American or Chinese conglomerate.
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:13.840
Phil: So that's wonderful.
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:18.200
Tom: Peter's was apparently founded by an ex-pat American.
00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:27.780
Tom: So in a sense, it was originally American, but now it's no longer American, and it's been sold overseas.
00:49:28.220 --> 00:49:29.300
Phil: It's lost its heritage.
00:49:30.460 --> 00:49:44.760
Phil: So before we move on to the next topic, I did want to mention that the game that you described, which was an old history RTS, reminded me of a game called Shattered Union, which came out in 2005 by a company called Top Pop Software.
00:49:45.660 --> 00:50:07.700
Phil: These are the guys that they did work on, well, they did Railroad Tycoon 2 and 3, but they're also the company that created Tropico, and Shattered Union was actually their last game before they were folded into Firaxis, which is Sid Meier's company that does the SIBs and everything, which I think is great.
00:50:07.720 --> 00:50:23.200
Phil: I mean, they labored from 1998 to 2005 in the RTS genre exclusively until Sid Meier saw Shattered Union and went, okay, that's enough, you're working for us now, which is a great story, because it was just a very small, small team.
00:50:23.220 --> 00:50:27.960
Tom: Is that because they didn't want them to embarrass themselves further or because they were so impressed?
00:50:28.520 --> 00:50:29.780
Phil: So impressed, of course.
00:50:29.780 --> 00:50:33.240
Phil: In Shattered Union, I'd encourage everyone to look up the story behind it.
00:50:34.120 --> 00:50:40.480
Phil: It was RTS that played on the original Xbox, and the original Xbox had trouble keeping up with the graphics.
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:54.420
Phil: Now, the next game we're going to talk about is Sky Children of Light, but not extensively, but just to mention that you've put up an article on gameunder.net about its one-year anniversary, and I can't believe it's only been one year.
00:50:54.600 --> 00:50:55.920
Tom: And still no Switch port.
00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:58.180
Phil: And still no Switch port.
00:50:58.200 --> 00:50:59.100
Phil: I checked again today.
00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:01.780
Phil: The one thing that...
00:51:02.100 --> 00:51:17.780
Phil: I read your article, and if you want to give a capsule summary to it, that'd be great, but I remembered while I was reading it that Jenova Chen described Sky Children of Light as a, quote, social global adventure experience.
00:51:18.220 --> 00:51:20.360
Phil: And that was before the game was released.
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:29.980
Phil: They said that Journey was designed with the intention of you playing it by yourself, and they introduced a small element of social interaction.
00:51:30.380 --> 00:51:41.460
Phil: But basically what they wanted to do with Sky Children of Light, which is a mobile game available on Android and Apple, was to create this social global adventure experience.
00:51:42.220 --> 00:51:46.100
Phil: So it sounds like that was really like the driving force behind it.
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:49.920
Phil: And after reading your article, I've got to say that they have succeeded.
00:51:50.740 --> 00:51:53.300
Tom: I would agree that they have indeed succeeded.
00:51:54.660 --> 00:51:57.520
Phil: One of the things that you talked about with that is that the...
00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:06.360
Phil: in terms of breaking down national and language barriers, it's really a unique experience and one that's new to the MMO space.
00:52:06.860 --> 00:52:09.020
Phil: Now, I haven't played any MMOs ever.
00:52:10.620 --> 00:52:11.760
Phil: At least RPGs.
00:52:11.900 --> 00:52:15.200
Phil: So, did you want to expand on that?
00:52:15.860 --> 00:52:35.300
Tom: Well, I think it's a phenomenon that probably extends beyond Sky, but because of the way Sky works with more limited interaction to most games and settings, it is amplified in Sky.
00:52:35.320 --> 00:52:49.640
Tom: And one of the ways in which, if I remember, I hypothesized that boundaries between cultures and nationalities and languages were broken down is through memes.
00:52:49.680 --> 00:52:57.240
Tom: And when I say memes, I don't mean literally memes, but that style of participatory humour.
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:29.460
Tom: Because it essentially offers, with the prevalence of the internet, wherever the internet is, a shared style of and format of humour, which allows obviously there then anyone from any culture to engage in a safe style of banter, which was not at all the case in earlier days of the internet, at least in places I frequented, and certainly not in MMOs.
00:53:30.980 --> 00:53:46.660
Phil: Well, I have to ask you about that because you were a proponent of MapleStory, and so I immediately thought, based on your prior experience, was MapleStory a hostile environment, unlike Sky Children of Light?
00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:49.280
Tom: Well, MapleStory I did not play that much.
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:51.380
Tom: You must be thinking of something else.
00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:53.540
Tom: I did indeed play MapleStory.
00:53:54.080 --> 00:54:18.140
Tom: MapleStory would fit into the category of games like Gunbound, where it's not as extreme as something like private servers or public servers of Ragnarok Online or World of Warcraft or RuneScape, for instance, where there was some crossover between cultures and nationalities.
00:54:18.500 --> 00:54:22.500
Tom: Definitely more so in MapleStory than those sorts of games.
00:54:22.640 --> 00:54:32.320
Tom: But still not to the same degree of as Sky or places like Discord servers and things like that.
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:41.340
Phil: So with Sky, just to read it out, obviously, there's a translation tool that's within Sky?
00:54:41.580 --> 00:54:48.340
Tom: No, the translation tool that Chinese players in particular use is something unrelated to Sky.
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:56.460
Phil: Oh, okay, because real time translation through Skype and some other communication tools is a real thing.
00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:58.560
Phil: And they're actually apparently quite good.
00:54:58.580 --> 00:55:00.480
Phil: I haven't had the call to use them.
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:05.300
Phil: But it's just one of those great resources that's just sitting there waiting.
00:55:07.020 --> 00:55:12.920
Phil: So what I didn't understand after reading that article, I thought that that was endemic to Sky.
00:55:12.940 --> 00:55:17.600
Phil: Like that was something that they had incorporated into it was this universal translator.
00:55:17.620 --> 00:55:18.480
Phil: But that's not the case.
00:55:18.500 --> 00:55:19.300
Tom: Unfortunately not.
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:21.040
Tom: That would be amazing if it was.
00:55:21.700 --> 00:55:32.980
Phil: So what about the community do you think has led to this being a unique experience where there's less friction between the different languages and cultures?
00:55:33.240 --> 00:56:11.960
Tom: Well, other than the more cosmopolitan internet of today in general, and the shared sense of humour that has occurred concurrently with it, the two things that Sky itself does different, which helps reduce friction even further, is the first contact you have with anyone is not talking to them, but it's purely through what you're doing in the game, and emoticons, which has resulted in an emoticon-based etiquette that has developed, which is quite an interesting phenomenon in and of itself.
00:56:13.140 --> 00:56:21.660
Tom: So when you are talking to someone, it doesn't necessarily mean you've made them your friend and unlocked chat, though that could well be the case.
00:56:21.680 --> 00:56:54.140
Tom: It could be that someone has a table or a campfire, which random people can sit out and talk at, but regardless of the cause, it is a rarer form of communication, and that therefore obviously is going to encourage people to be more interested in using it as a form of communication as opposed to simply trolling because there is some degree of effort or luck required to get into that.
00:56:54.160 --> 00:57:04.160
Tom: That is, effort of unlocking stuff with friends or unlocking a table or campfire yourself, or luck of someone else having placed a table or campfire in an area.
00:57:05.060 --> 00:57:17.240
Phil: One of the games I was hoping that we might play together soon was, well, play simultaneously rather because it's not co-op, is a game called Kind Words, subtitled Lo-Fi Chill Beats to Write To.
00:57:17.260 --> 00:57:18.780
Phil: Are you familiar with this indie game?
00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:23.780
Tom: I'm not familiar with the indie game, I'm familiar with the meme.
00:57:24.660 --> 00:57:26.100
Phil: Oh, okay, well, it's a game.
00:57:26.120 --> 00:57:27.460
Tom: That there's an indie game of this?
00:57:27.940 --> 00:57:28.900
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
00:57:28.900 --> 00:57:34.460
Phil: It's basically a game called Kind Words where basically people send messages and then you get to respond to them.
00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:35.580
Tom: Oh, I know, yeah, I've heard of that.
00:57:39.540 --> 00:58:00.660
Phil: It's not in the HIO godsail that I could find, so you're gonna have to do some digging there for me, because I was thinking you were saying, oh, this is a unique experience, and obviously it is in the MMO world, but Kind Words, I thought that perhaps, you know, that was a place where there was a similar kind of accepting culture.
00:58:01.900 --> 00:58:06.360
Tom: And I think, what are the Sunset Developers called again?
00:58:06.380 --> 00:58:08.120
Phil: Oh, wow.
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:23.280
Tom: Because I think they are pioneers in this area with their game in which you play as woodland animals and inhabit a wood, and you can communicate to one another through body language and various things, which is...
00:58:24.180 --> 00:58:24.710
Phil: Oh, okay...
00:58:24.710 --> 00:58:24.710
Tom: .
00:58:24.710 --> 00:58:27.740
Tom: very much in the vein of Journey and Sky.
00:58:28.160 --> 00:58:29.420
Phil: That was Tale of Tales.
00:58:29.980 --> 00:58:30.600
Tom: There you go.
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:36.280
Phil: We probably should check to make sure that they're still around and keep buying all of their games.
00:58:37.300 --> 00:58:39.960
Tom: I'm pretty sure they are not still around.
00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:40.980
Phil: Yeah.
00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:45.360
Tom: I think they rather famously stopped making games.
00:58:45.900 --> 00:58:48.120
Phil: Yeah, in 2013, unfortunately.
00:58:48.140 --> 00:58:48.460
Tom: Yes.
00:58:49.040 --> 00:58:49.540
Phil: Man.
00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:52.160
Phil: I'm just thinking of their games.
00:58:52.180 --> 00:58:53.780
Phil: The Endless Forest, do you remember that one?
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:54.220
Tom: Yes.
00:58:56.060 --> 00:58:56.820
Phil: The Path.
00:58:58.660 --> 00:59:01.920
Tom: I think the Endless Forest is the one I was referring to, right?
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:02.720
Phil: Yeah.
00:59:02.980 --> 00:59:03.280
Phil: Yeah.
00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:04.560
Phil: I think so.
00:59:05.680 --> 00:59:18.460
Tom: And the other reason that will contribute to it is just most likely the generally collaborative nature of the gameplay and the aesthetic of it as well.
00:59:19.360 --> 00:59:24.580
Tom: And the aesthetic certainly attracts a lot of artists.
00:59:24.720 --> 00:59:35.360
Tom: The quantity of people who draw things and paint in the game is extremely high compared to the general gaming community for some reason.
00:59:35.380 --> 00:59:38.340
Tom: And probably the reason is in fact the aesthetic.
00:59:39.220 --> 00:59:48.620
Phil: And I think that that's why, I mean, the Jenova Chen aesthetic, that game company's aesthetic, is very artistic and very open.
00:59:48.660 --> 00:59:52.900
Phil: And I'm just, I'm amazed that people actually have found the game, and it's wonderful.
00:59:52.920 --> 01:00:01.720
Phil: The one thing I would conflict with you about, or rather ask you to explain more, is you said it's a very cosmopolitan game.
01:00:03.080 --> 01:00:08.980
Phil: But then you talked about how the sense of humor, the internet sense of humor is becoming uniform.
01:00:09.420 --> 01:00:12.000
Phil: And so, like, I think that's more of a monoculture.
01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:22.720
Phil: And in a way, I think that multicultural views are the same as a monoculture, because I think that's actually killing off cultures.
01:00:22.740 --> 01:00:35.540
Phil: Like, if the internet as a community is having the same jokes and the same sense of humor and this shared, you know, sensibility, then isn't that the opposite of cosmopolitan?
01:00:35.560 --> 01:00:40.520
Tom: I think that's covered in the article, because you can have two things simultaneously.
01:00:41.260 --> 01:00:51.760
Tom: Essentially, the shared sense of humor is there as a foundation of initial communication or in general communication.
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:53.220
Phil: Ah, okay.
01:00:53.240 --> 01:01:01.260
Tom: But that existing does not mean that fine details of culture cease to exist.
01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:01.720
Phil: Wonderful.
01:01:01.780 --> 01:01:04.260
Tom: I think the two things can exist simultaneously.
01:01:05.120 --> 01:01:25.020
Phil: And 20 or 30 years ago, probably more 20 years ago, I found myself in an airport or on a plane talking to someone using stick figures and drawings, and that would be the universal language, the memes, as a gateway to our communicating, but it still made me an Australian, and it still made them an Indonesian or whatever.
01:01:26.720 --> 01:01:27.580
Phil: Okay, well, wonderful.
01:01:27.640 --> 01:01:28.600
Phil: Okay, well, good.
01:01:28.620 --> 01:01:40.960
Phil: Because I see the monoculture, and monoculture is not an anthropologic term that's used much in terms of the way that I see it.
01:01:41.020 --> 01:01:59.360
Phil: Like I see the monoculture as killing, as the internet killing individual cultures around the world, to the point where when I grew up, like there was such a thing as a aucharism and a way that Australians spoke that you don't see anymore because we're influenced so much by YouTube.
01:01:59.620 --> 01:02:04.380
Tom: I would say there's even a universal aspect, accent, sorry, developing on YouTube.
01:02:04.560 --> 01:02:06.220
Phil: Yes, unfortunately.
01:02:06.700 --> 01:02:10.300
Phil: Well, whatever it is, it is, it's happening, whether it's unfortunate or not.
01:02:10.720 --> 01:02:15.640
Phil: But I was just thinking last night about how Australians used to be notorious for uptalking.
01:02:16.840 --> 01:02:22.680
Phil: And now we're not famous for uptalking, where we increase our inflection toward the end of a sentence.
01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:23.360
Tom: Yes.
01:02:24.080 --> 01:02:27.740
Phil: That was something that Australians were known for as recently as the 90s.
01:02:28.140 --> 01:02:30.080
Phil: And it's not something that you see very much.
01:02:31.100 --> 01:02:38.300
Phil: And uptalking has become, you know, another thing amongst different cultures.
01:02:38.740 --> 01:02:39.580
Phil: So, okay.
01:02:39.600 --> 01:02:42.320
Phil: Well, thank you very much for introducing Sky Children of Light.
01:02:42.340 --> 01:02:42.960
Phil: I will wait.
01:02:43.060 --> 01:02:52.340
Phil: And I do promise you, the day it comes out, even if it's like a $60 full price game, I will definitely be getting it on the Switch and hopefully interacting with you on it.
01:02:53.660 --> 01:02:56.200
Phil: So you've definitely sold a lot of this on it.
01:02:57.600 --> 01:03:00.060
Phil: Did you want to get into the game that we've both been playing?
01:03:00.640 --> 01:03:03.140
Phil: And that is Night in the Woods.
01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:05.000
Tom: Let's do it.
01:03:05.520 --> 01:03:13.620
Phil: Yeah, I do want to say, if we can probably just drop the meta around this, I'd like to talk just about the game and not what has happened.
01:03:14.380 --> 01:03:15.680
Phil: And if we do, I'd like to...
01:03:15.700 --> 01:03:31.220
Tom: We're ignoring the most important aspect of this, which is that we are playing this from God's gift to man, the second coming of Christ himself, that was the itch.io bundle.
01:03:31.700 --> 01:03:35.700
Phil: Yeah, and the tattoo is only still slightly hurting.
01:03:36.700 --> 01:03:49.160
Phil: I was out in the sun today, and my itch.io tattoo is still sore, but it's still a small price to pay for what was an extremely generous sale for a cause.
01:03:49.180 --> 01:03:50.800
Phil: I'm not quite sure what they were doing.
01:03:50.820 --> 01:03:57.260
Tom: It's months later, and I am still flabbergasted, but I go to sleep on many nights just in awe.
01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:08.940
Phil: You've got to tell me, how the F do you find, after the show, tell me how the F do you actually find the games that you bought, because it's becoming increasingly more difficult for me to go back and find it.
01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:10.860
Phil: So you can tell me about that later.
01:04:11.240 --> 01:04:13.020
Phil: It's kind of like a monkey poor situation.
01:04:13.040 --> 01:04:17.320
Phil: I know I have these 5,000 games out there that I paid $5 for, but I can't access them.
01:04:18.200 --> 01:04:23.140
Phil: But I got to tell you, I never would have played Night in the Woods, if not for that itch.io sale.
01:04:25.180 --> 01:04:39.180
Phil: Now, there's something that's happened subsequent to the game, and we may as well just say it, that basically one of the creators of the game committed suicide because of a Me Too allegation from Zoe Quinn and...
01:04:39.200 --> 01:04:44.480
Tom: Well, I don't know if he committed suicide because of the allegation, but the two were around the same time.
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:47.200
Phil: They were, in fact, very close.
01:04:47.540 --> 01:04:55.040
Phil: And also the allegation of a co-writer or co-developer of the game.
01:04:55.080 --> 01:04:56.440
Phil: Now, this is a game that was originally...
01:04:56.460 --> 01:04:58.620
Tom: I think it was a co-developer on a new project, wasn't it?
01:04:59.140 --> 01:05:00.600
Phil: No, it was one of the...
01:05:00.680 --> 01:05:05.980
Phil: Yeah, so it was a musician of the game.
01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:06.860
Phil: So the game we're talking about...
01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:12.720
Tom: The game was his idea, and he was the composer and programmer for it as well.
01:05:14.720 --> 01:05:15.240
Phil: That's right.
01:05:15.260 --> 01:05:21.240
Phil: And then there was two co-writers, Bethany Hockenberry and Scott Benson.
01:05:21.300 --> 01:05:23.340
Tom: Well, I believe they were the writers.
01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:25.340
Tom: He had the idea but did not write it.
01:05:25.900 --> 01:05:32.440
Phil: Yep, and then Alec Holowka did predominantly the music.
01:05:32.740 --> 01:05:34.480
Phil: And the programming.
01:05:34.640 --> 01:05:36.680
Phil: Yeah, and the programming, very important.
01:05:36.700 --> 01:05:41.360
Phil: And a separate company did the sound design, which is going to be important when we talk about the review.
01:05:41.380 --> 01:05:42.960
Phil: So the game we're talking about is Night in the Woods.
01:05:43.460 --> 01:05:45.580
Phil: It's probably available on everything at this stage.
01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:48.260
Phil: How would you describe the art style?
01:05:50.520 --> 01:05:52.040
Phil: Kind of that South Park...
01:05:52.060 --> 01:05:56.580
Phil: Well, it's kind of that South Park cutout paper type thing, really.
01:05:57.080 --> 01:06:00.500
Phil: Or a marionette style, I guess would be a good way to describe it.
01:06:01.200 --> 01:06:05.820
Tom: I think it's definitely not in a puppet style.
01:06:06.040 --> 01:06:09.620
Tom: I would describe it as cartoon or webcomic.
01:06:09.640 --> 01:06:13.100
Tom: They don't really look or move like puppets.
01:06:14.460 --> 01:06:25.980
Tom: Maybe South Park you could compare it to them, but the limb animation is much more complicated than something like South Park and more dynamic as well.
01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:27.520
Phil: Oh, it's amazing.
01:06:28.160 --> 01:06:30.000
Phil: The animation in this game is amazing.
01:06:30.020 --> 01:06:33.240
Phil: So in any case, I guess it's a single person adventure game.
01:06:33.260 --> 01:06:38.800
Tom: But it is a flat two-dimensional style in silhouette, is I think what you were trying to get at.
01:06:39.240 --> 01:06:40.080
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
01:06:40.300 --> 01:06:40.800
Phil: Thank you.
01:06:40.940 --> 01:06:46.400
Phil: And you're always so much better at describing the visual form than I am.
01:06:47.220 --> 01:06:48.440
Tom: As well as everything else.
01:06:48.980 --> 01:07:00.300
Phil: I remember back to me asking you about, I think it was over the Okami or Mad World, and you pointed out to me that it was a Japanese woodcut style, which is exactly right.
01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:04.380
Phil: So Night in the Woods, I played it on PC as did you.
01:07:04.420 --> 01:07:07.820
Phil: I used an Xbox 360 controller to play.
01:07:07.860 --> 01:07:09.620
Phil: Did you use a controller or a keyboard?
01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:14.800
Tom: I used a combination of both, depending on whether I was eating breakfast while playing it or not.
01:07:15.520 --> 01:07:21.280
Phil: Certainly to get through the copious amounts of dialogue, I leaned on the space bar quite a bit.
01:07:21.560 --> 01:07:37.240
Phil: It is a one-person adventure game, where you play as a cat, female cat named May, M-A-E, who has dropped out of college, much to the chagrin of her parents, because she was the first in her family to go to university.
01:07:37.860 --> 01:07:46.960
Phil: And she's come back to the small town, I forget the name of it, but she's come back to the small town and basically found that...
01:07:46.980 --> 01:07:50.400
Tom: Well, the real world setting is Pennsylvania.
01:07:50.420 --> 01:07:54.100
Tom: I'm not sure if it's referred to as Pennsylvania in the game or not.
01:07:54.100 --> 01:07:55.140
Tom: I think it probably isn't.
01:07:55.260 --> 01:08:00.980
Tom: But it is set in a declining town in Pennsylvania.
01:08:01.580 --> 01:08:03.760
Phil: Called Possum Falls, I believe.
01:08:04.180 --> 01:08:04.680
Phil: Is that right?
01:08:04.940 --> 01:08:05.660
Tom: That sounds right.
01:08:06.160 --> 01:08:07.620
Tom: Or is it Possum Springs?
01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:09.300
Phil: Well, you'll find out.
01:08:09.460 --> 01:08:12.260
Tom: It's some sort of possum-related water.
01:08:12.520 --> 01:08:13.600
Phil: Body of water.
01:08:14.080 --> 01:08:17.680
Phil: So she comes back and she finds that things aren't quite the same.
01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:20.040
Phil: And as the old saying goes, you can never go home.
01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:24.140
Phil: Her friends have moved on in terms of their own development.
01:08:24.480 --> 01:08:27.100
Phil: Things have happened in their lives that have made them change.
01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:39.120
Phil: And you come back, I'm going to say, as a fairly immature person with didactic views, and you hate your parents and all.
01:08:39.140 --> 01:08:53.580
Phil: You don't hate them, but you've got very articulated views that are very definite and binary about things, which tends to piss off your friends, like your alligator friend Bee, who has had to go through a lot of stuff.
01:08:53.600 --> 01:08:55.420
Tom: I would describe him more so as naive.
01:08:56.380 --> 01:08:57.180
Phil: Naive, yeah.
01:08:57.320 --> 01:08:59.380
Tom: And lacking in ideas on things.
01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:00.940
Phil: Yeah.
01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:04.560
Phil: And look, I don't know how long the game took to play.
01:09:04.580 --> 01:09:07.900
Phil: I'm going to guess I probably spent at least 10 hours with it.
01:09:09.040 --> 01:09:12.500
Phil: The game has essentially three chapters and an epilogue.
01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:13.660
Tom: I think four chapters.
01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:14.960
Phil: Yeah.
01:09:15.060 --> 01:09:15.780
Tom: And an epilogue.
01:09:16.060 --> 01:09:18.400
Phil: But the fourth chapter is kind of slight, really.
01:09:20.100 --> 01:09:21.000
Tom: The first is two.
01:09:21.900 --> 01:09:22.540
Phil: Yeah, that's true.
01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:23.420
Phil: Yes, true.
01:09:23.700 --> 01:09:26.160
Phil: So I've probably described enough about it.
01:09:28.100 --> 01:09:29.700
Phil: I've got a lot of praise for the game.
01:09:29.720 --> 01:09:32.140
Phil: I'd like to hear what your impressions were.
01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:36.000
Tom: Well, I want to begin with some definitional questions for you.
01:09:36.740 --> 01:09:39.200
Tom: Can this be classified as a walking simulator?
01:09:40.820 --> 01:09:41.180
Phil: No.
01:09:42.100 --> 01:09:43.620
Tom: Is that because you can jump in it?
01:09:44.440 --> 01:09:45.180
Phil: You can jump.
01:09:46.100 --> 01:09:47.120
Phil: There's mini games.
01:09:48.060 --> 01:09:49.740
Phil: There's lots and lots of side quests.
01:09:49.760 --> 01:09:51.980
Tom: I think some walking simulators have mini games.
01:09:52.720 --> 01:09:57.720
Phil: Some may, but there's a lot of side story in this one, a lot of side games.
01:09:58.340 --> 01:10:19.100
Tom: I think that there is a 2D bias at work here, because if you take, for instance, Tacoma, that is everyone would call a walking simulator, but there is a lot of the sides, not a lot, but there is certainly some side stuff in that you can miss, and there is technically puzzle solving in that as well.
01:10:20.220 --> 01:10:21.940
Phil: Well, there's puzzle solving in this.
01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:23.820
Phil: There's also platforming elements in this.
01:10:24.340 --> 01:10:35.480
Tom: I think that would be the best argument against it, and not because there's platforming elements in it, because they are very simple, but because when you were jumping, you move faster.
01:10:36.320 --> 01:10:46.000
Tom: So I'm thinking perhaps a walking simulator should be defined as being based on the fact that you can only move at one speed throughout the whole game.
01:10:46.400 --> 01:10:47.700
Phil: Yep, I agree with that.
01:10:47.720 --> 01:10:48.960
Phil: We'll write that down in the rule book.
01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:51.160
Tom: Now here's the next question.
01:10:51.200 --> 01:11:01.780
Tom: Is it an anti-work simulator or an unemployment simulator, which arguably should be a subgenre of working simulator?
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:06.680
Phil: I find that interesting, an anti-work simulator.
01:11:07.020 --> 01:11:17.600
Phil: When I was a young man walking through the streets of Brisbane with my camera that I had overpaid for, I saw a poster which I looked at just a few days ago because I took a photo of it.
01:11:17.660 --> 01:11:24.460
Phil: And the poster just basically had an typewritten font blown up and magnified, Say No to Work.
01:11:26.580 --> 01:11:30.560
Phil: And actually it said, Live your own life, say no to work.
01:11:30.580 --> 01:11:35.840
Phil: And it was like the Brisbane Anti-Employment Union or something.
01:11:36.940 --> 01:11:47.140
Phil: Which in the late 80s, early 90s, I think that was a pretty, you know, like these days, that would be de jure, you know, when you've got your universal basic income and things like that.
01:11:48.120 --> 01:11:53.180
Tom: So it would be de jure in Portugal and very few other places.
01:11:53.540 --> 01:11:54.200
Phil: That's right.
01:11:55.660 --> 01:11:59.300
Phil: So, but even so, like, is this an anti-work simulator?
01:11:59.460 --> 01:12:04.320
Tom: I don't mean anti-work in the sense that it is taking a position against work.
01:12:04.780 --> 01:12:05.620
Phil: Because it is.
01:12:06.160 --> 01:12:27.740
Tom: If you think about it structurally, it is very similar to many work simulators where the gameplay sections are divided up into days, and the flow of the gameplay is based on redoing the same thing in slightly different rays and that building up to a certain climax in each of those areas.
01:12:29.200 --> 01:12:43.100
Phil: Oh yeah, but at the same time, if you look at the message of the game, your friends work in these horrible jobs that they hate or resent or don't take seriously, and you walk around willy-nilly without a job.
01:12:44.980 --> 01:12:50.720
Tom: Well, that's half of the theme, work-related themes, I would say, but we're just looking at this as...
01:12:50.740 --> 01:12:51.460
Phil: Look at your dad.
01:12:51.540 --> 01:12:52.560
Phil: Look at May's dad.
01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:55.400
Tom: We'll get to that in a minute when we get into more detail on the story.
01:12:55.420 --> 01:13:05.660
Tom: I'm just saying from a gameplay perspective, is this not essentially a work simulator although you are unemployed?
01:13:06.700 --> 01:13:10.820
Phil: I would say no, because of the wealth of side stories in it.
01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:14.720
Phil: I think in a work simulator, you've basically got no choice but to go through the procedural.
01:13:14.740 --> 01:13:20.420
Tom: I think you're forgetting in papers, please, that had numerous side stories with the characters.
01:13:20.860 --> 01:13:22.240
Phil: But no side activities.
01:13:22.380 --> 01:13:25.780
Phil: Like, you could not go to the office, you know?
01:13:26.340 --> 01:13:28.060
Phil: I'm going to have to think about it.
01:13:28.080 --> 01:13:32.280
Tom: But you could not do certain things in it.
01:13:32.820 --> 01:13:33.460
Phil: That's true.
01:13:33.480 --> 01:13:35.140
Tom: Which directly affected side stories.
01:13:35.300 --> 01:13:38.340
Tom: It's the same in Death and Taxes.
01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:50.720
Tom: And while you again have to go to the desk in Death and Taxes, for instance, you can literally do nothing on a day and proceed.
01:13:51.640 --> 01:13:55.420
Tom: In this, most days end with you doing band practice.
01:13:55.640 --> 01:14:01.200
Tom: So you can literally just walk from her house to band practice and back and call it a day.
01:14:01.220 --> 01:14:05.460
Phil: Yeah, and how much of the side stuff did you get into?
01:14:05.860 --> 01:14:08.440
Tom: I did as much of it as I could.
01:14:09.420 --> 01:14:21.140
Tom: Judging by having not unlocked only three concept art in the extras menu, I assume, I did the vast majority of it.
01:14:22.840 --> 01:14:39.960
Phil: I'm going to just say that there is a section, you wake up in your room every day, you check your computer, as you do, for messages from your friends, and then you also have the choice, when you're in the room, to play a Guitar Hero, Note Freeway style bass guitar game.
01:14:40.180 --> 01:14:42.360
Phil: And at first I thought, oh, this is kind of interesting.
01:14:42.400 --> 01:14:43.140
Phil: Yeah, look at that.
01:14:43.160 --> 01:14:44.860
Phil: They've introduced this into the game.
01:14:45.820 --> 01:14:50.960
Phil: It's going to be a bit of a gimmick, but it was actually good.
01:14:51.820 --> 01:15:03.020
Tom: You could actually play that following the rhythm of the song rather than the onscreen visual prompts, which is better than a lot of actual rhythm games.
01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:11.220
Phil: Yeah, but Guitar Hero, at least with Guitar Hero, because I didn't play rock band, with Guitar Hero, you didn't really need to follow the note highway.
01:15:11.240 --> 01:15:15.620
Tom: But those are the height of the genre.
01:15:16.260 --> 01:15:19.000
Tom: There are many rhythm games outside of those two.
01:15:19.380 --> 01:15:20.060
Phil: Yeah, that's right.
01:15:20.120 --> 01:15:27.420
Phil: And the thing that I enjoyed about it is if you held a note, like it had a different sound to it, it was like you were holding the note.
01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:33.460
Phil: And at first you're just tap tapping away, and it sounds like crap, but then you realize you can actually hold notes as you play the bass.
01:15:34.460 --> 01:15:40.240
Phil: My favorite song, which is still ringing around in my head, is the song called Die Anywhere Else.
01:15:41.020 --> 01:15:42.680
Phil: And I found myself...
01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:44.340
Phil: Wow, where'd that accent come from?
01:15:45.420 --> 01:15:54.860
Phil: I found myself just wanting to play and just wanting to practice just for the fun of learning that song and getting really good at it.
01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:56.420
Tom: That was the most difficult one, right?
01:15:56.440 --> 01:15:57.080
Tom: The last one?
01:15:58.600 --> 01:15:59.860
Phil: No, I don't think so.
01:15:59.880 --> 01:16:02.280
Phil: Die Anywhere Else is the second one.
01:16:02.300 --> 01:16:08.040
Tom: Yeah, because there were two that were extremely difficult, the second one and the last one that you learned.
01:16:08.060 --> 01:16:12.180
Phil: Yeah, and the last one was difficult, but Die Anywhere Else was the one that goes...
01:16:13.520 --> 01:16:15.460
Phil: Dum dum dum ba da dum.
01:16:17.580 --> 01:16:18.980
Phil: If you can remember that.
01:16:19.040 --> 01:16:20.240
Phil: Yep.
01:16:20.240 --> 01:16:30.320
Phil: So I absolutely loved it, and I thought it was really, really good, which brings to point my favorite thing about this game was the sound in it.
01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:36.800
Phil: The music was very good, but the sound design was exceptional, and I've got to give them their credit.
01:16:37.020 --> 01:16:42.840
Phil: The name of the company that did sound design for this game is called the company A Shell in the Pit.
01:16:43.360 --> 01:16:57.580
Phil: And so while the departed Alec Holocroix did the music, the sound design in this game, I thought was on a level that I haven't been able to appreciate since a game like, I don't know, Deep Space.
01:16:58.560 --> 01:16:59.640
Phil: Dead Space, rather.
01:17:00.740 --> 01:17:05.960
Phil: I know that you'll remind me that there's other games that have had just as good sound design, if not better, since then.
01:17:07.020 --> 01:17:12.660
Phil: But listening to this game, even on speakers, not with headphones, I thought it was brilliant.
01:17:13.040 --> 01:17:15.420
Phil: I absolutely loved the sound design in this game.
01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:22.380
Phil: And I also loved the music and the way that music was used, which would have been a part of the commission for the sound design company.
01:17:23.980 --> 01:17:24.920
Phil: Do you share that view?
01:17:25.300 --> 01:17:25.900
Tom: Absolutely.
01:17:25.920 --> 01:17:58.860
Tom: And I think I appreciated the music at the same level of the sound design, not just in how it was used, but the amount that it added to both the narrative in terms of the contributing to the emotional scenes in the story and also the setting, I thought, really carried it on a level well above both the immediate quality of the dialogue.
01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:00.720
Tom: There's a lot to like about the dialogue.
01:18:01.620 --> 01:18:19.460
Tom: This isn't meant to be suggesting that dialogue is bad particularly, but the main contributing driving force behind the emotion in the game was, I think, both the music as well as the use of the music.
01:18:19.500 --> 01:18:23.420
Tom: And the breadth of the music was incredible too.
01:18:23.440 --> 01:18:29.500
Tom: It covered a huge amount of different styles.
01:18:30.060 --> 01:18:36.900
Tom: And as far as the sound design was concerned, they always picked something out that fitted perfectly.
01:18:38.060 --> 01:18:46.420
Phil: And without spoilers, but in the crescendo of the plot of the game, the sound was used so wonderfully.
01:18:46.560 --> 01:18:48.320
Phil: I mean, it was great.
01:18:48.540 --> 01:18:58.520
Phil: They had some shock jumps or monster closet moments in that game that were tremendous, and the sound brought it all to life.
01:19:00.080 --> 01:19:02.920
Phil: It was never distracting other than how great it was.
01:19:03.400 --> 01:19:07.820
Phil: I just could not get over how good the sound design and music was in this game.
01:19:08.460 --> 01:19:12.920
Phil: And to me, I said I wasn't going to get meta about this, but to me, that's one of the things.
01:19:12.940 --> 01:19:16.380
Phil: I look at this guy that killed himself.
01:19:16.400 --> 01:19:20.000
Phil: I'm like, well, we're not going to get that music anymore.
01:19:21.940 --> 01:19:31.640
Phil: I'm really going to look into A Shell in the Pit as a company to see what other sound design they've done because it's obviously driven by someone with a distinct passion and talent.
01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:33.320
Phil: Now, we're two podcasters.
01:19:33.640 --> 01:19:40.000
Phil: We're doing a podcast because we love audio way before we started this podcast.
01:19:40.720 --> 01:19:46.460
Phil: So you can probably see why we'd be hung up on how good it is and giving them full credit for it.
01:19:47.060 --> 01:19:55.560
Phil: The benefit is, however, the writing, you know, those people are still around, so they'll go on to do great work, I hope and believe.
01:19:55.580 --> 01:20:03.760
Phil: And like you said, the dialogue was really quite natural, but never got bogged down.
01:20:05.220 --> 01:20:13.000
Phil: I felt like it was a way that friends communicate and friends and parents in a healthy relationship talk to each other.
01:20:14.060 --> 01:20:20.460
Tom: I think it basically pulled off what they were attempting to do in Life is Strange, essentially.
01:20:22.080 --> 01:20:29.060
Tom: Which is develop a natural and believable style of banter between friends.
01:20:30.180 --> 01:20:39.480
Phil: And I think Life is Strange 1 works, and I heard this, this isn't my own thought, but I heard this from someone this week on another podcast.
01:20:40.060 --> 01:20:43.980
Phil: The reason why the dialogue works in Life is Strange is the teenage setting.
01:20:44.880 --> 01:20:50.480
Tom: Well, they claim it's meant to be awkward in the way that it is awkward for that reason.
01:20:51.420 --> 01:20:58.620
Tom: And they consulted experts on how teenagers talk and that sort of thing.
01:20:59.180 --> 01:21:46.300
Tom: But I do think having played both Remember Me and Vampyr, that that is something of an excuse, because while people will highlight things like Haller being said in Life is Strange, and Haller is used, interestingly, in Night in the Woods as well, once people highlight things like that, the problem with the dialogue in Life is Strange was, I would suggest mainly that it was French people writing English, which resulted in some weird and unnatural rather than awkward syntaxes and deliveries, because that's there in all their games.
01:21:47.060 --> 01:21:57.540
Tom: And while obviously it's not necessarily translated into English by those writers, it's initially written in French, which obviously is likely to make a difference.
01:21:57.540 --> 01:22:02.560
Tom: And if they were originally writing in English, which they may well be, then the same issue applies.
01:22:03.160 --> 01:22:08.280
Phil: Jason, Jason, Jason, Jason.
01:22:08.300 --> 01:22:11.460
Phil: Yeah, and that's the problem with French people.
01:22:11.460 --> 01:22:15.180
Tom: That's due to the absurdist genius of David Cage.
01:22:15.200 --> 01:22:16.120
Tom: Thank you very much.
01:22:16.540 --> 01:22:18.120
Phil: David Cargay, yeah.
01:22:18.700 --> 01:22:23.680
Phil: And I've got to say, the dialogue with the mother reminded me of Earthbound.
01:22:23.700 --> 01:22:30.340
Phil: I wrote down in my notes, wonderful, in italics and an exclamation mark.
01:22:30.400 --> 01:22:34.700
Phil: I thought the dialogue between May and her parents was just great.
01:22:35.120 --> 01:22:36.700
Phil: I loved every aspect of it.
01:22:37.960 --> 01:22:48.860
Tom: And the other reason that the dialogue worked so well is, again, compared to something like Life is Strange, is there was a consistent or thorial voice.
01:22:48.940 --> 01:23:06.700
Tom: It was not written as if it was a script in the sense of a film, which generally avoid or thorial voice, but of course the best film writing always has a strong or thorial voice, which is even apparent in something like Tarantino.
01:23:07.040 --> 01:23:19.860
Tom: Tarantino, for instance, always is praised due to his interesting dialogue and characters, but basically all Tarantino characters talk identically within films.
01:23:20.620 --> 01:23:24.840
Tom: In different films, there's different styles of talking, but for the most part, there's a really strong or thorial voice.
01:23:25.660 --> 01:23:54.940
Tom: And to find a balance between going beyond something like Tarantino, between having characters talk in a recognizable way, like you'll easily be able to tell if Bia is talking compared to Greg, as the most obvious example, but simultaneously you'll see that throughout that, there's always little beats that connect them all through things like the way they repeat certain things and so on.
01:23:54.960 --> 01:24:14.120
Tom: Which contributes one, to the sense of shared banter, but two, is a grounding aspect of authorial voice that allows everything to flow consistently throughout the dialogue, regardless of what is happening in terms of the emotional quality to the scene.
01:24:14.900 --> 01:24:21.820
Phil: So I've set up that May is coming back to a small town and things aren't what she remembered and aren't what she thought that things were.
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:27.920
Phil: We should say that the backdrop for the whole game is basically a murder mystery.
01:24:28.640 --> 01:24:32.920
Tom: One last thing I want to add before we move on from the areas we've been talking about.
01:24:32.940 --> 01:24:40.320
Tom: We've mentioned the animation and that it was great, but just an example of why it's so great is, as we said, the limb animation.
01:24:40.340 --> 01:24:56.880
Tom: Everything is, for the most part, really static, but as you're running along jumping, for instance, there's this wonderful elasticity to May's limbs as she jumps, floats in the air and lands in several different stages.
01:24:57.080 --> 01:25:03.760
Tom: In scenes where they're talking, they'll just be having their mouths open and close in a simple manner.
01:25:04.060 --> 01:25:13.200
Tom: Then something exciting happens, and all of a sudden their arms will be flaming in a hilariously elastic manner.
01:25:13.280 --> 01:25:19.720
Tom: The amount that they do with little things, both in terms of the writing and the animation, is just amazing.
01:25:20.240 --> 01:25:38.520
Phil: It's brilliant, and my favorite, which I took many screenshots during this game, but the only time I actually used the Windows Xbox Game video capture, and I've got to say the whole Xbox Games thing where you press the start button and you get all that overlay is brilliant as well.
01:25:39.280 --> 01:25:43.900
Phil: But the dancing, when she danced, I don't know if you remember that.
01:25:43.920 --> 01:25:44.560
Tom: At the nightclub.
01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:45.300
Phil: Yes.
01:25:45.980 --> 01:25:46.880
Tom: Yeah, that was amazing.
01:25:47.420 --> 01:25:54.740
Phil: And you move, based on what you did with the two analog sticks, it was just, I could have done that for hours and hours and hours.
01:25:54.740 --> 01:26:03.740
Phil: And it reminded me how ridiculous dance is and how social dance is and how I hate social dance, and this is the reason why, but I couldn't stop doing it.
01:26:04.180 --> 01:26:08.860
Phil: She just, the arm movements and the leg movements were absolutely brilliant.
01:26:09.240 --> 01:26:11.640
Phil: I completely loved the animation in this game.
01:26:11.660 --> 01:26:14.720
Phil: And when you're doing the platforming in the dream sequences.
01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:30.940
Phil: So the game basically, yeah, you wake up every day, you check your email, you can do side stories, you go hang out with your friends, you can have band practice, but each chapter or each day ends with a dream sequence, which is a very involved platforming segment.
01:26:30.940 --> 01:26:34.600
Tom: And that has some of the greatest sound design.
01:26:35.120 --> 01:26:35.480
Phil: Yes.
01:26:35.560 --> 01:26:49.240
Tom: When you're lighting the lamps, it's amazingly both jarring and satisfying at once, and that fits perfectly the dark yet completely intriguing atmosphere of the dreams.
01:26:49.620 --> 01:27:12.060
Tom: And the lamp lighting actually reminds me, one of the best things about Sky, and it's on a whole other level to Journey, which had incredible sound design, is the sound when you light candles in Sky, which is what much of the gameplay is based on, is just so satisfying, even when you've been playing it for a year.
01:27:12.080 --> 01:27:13.240
Tom: And it reminds me of that.
01:27:13.260 --> 01:27:22.600
Tom: It's much more abrasive, which makes sense given the setting, but it's the same sort of satisfying feeling of striking a match.
01:27:23.840 --> 01:27:28.420
Phil: And I should remind everyone, the game we're talking about is Night in the Woods, which is on pretty much everything.
01:27:28.440 --> 01:27:29.580
Phil: I don't think it's on Switch.
01:27:31.900 --> 01:27:39.780
Phil: So each night you have these nightmares, which is an extreme platforming element, which I think owes a lot to Inside or Limbo.
01:27:39.800 --> 01:27:48.120
Phil: And even though I'd criticize the floaty platforming in Little Big Planet, in this game it just fits perfectly.
01:27:48.180 --> 01:27:55.140
Phil: And it's not particularly floaty, because when you want an action, it actually sticks to it, despite the animation of the character.
01:27:55.160 --> 01:28:05.640
Tom: Well, it's not floaty so much because it has a double jump mechanic, which is not double jump, but every third jump you make.
01:28:05.660 --> 01:28:12.320
Tom: So if you jump three times in a row, the third jump will go about twice the distance and twice the height.
01:28:13.060 --> 01:28:17.780
Tom: So when you're doing that, you obviously have a plan in what you want to do.
01:28:17.800 --> 01:28:21.600
Tom: It's not just the standard jumping easy bits.
01:28:22.420 --> 01:28:37.260
Tom: So I think when you have floating platforming, as long as you play the game with a reasonable amount of advanced planning, floaty platforming mechanics work, which I think they do in Little Big Planet if you take that into account.
01:28:37.280 --> 01:28:43.440
Tom: But if you try and play it like a standard non-floaty platformer, then you run into issues.
01:28:43.460 --> 01:28:57.420
Tom: But because it is on the third jump that this occurs, it means automatically that the player is forced to plan in advance in more detail what they're doing than in a non-floaty platformer.
01:28:59.300 --> 01:29:15.400
Phil: And without spoiling anything, basically, you're trying to solve this murder mystery and the dark side of your town, which I'm not going to spoil here, but I think culminates in basically turning the dream sequences into an actual reality.
01:29:15.960 --> 01:29:31.220
Phil: So as may you're suffering these dreams and headaches and things like that, and then toward the end of the game, those things actually turn into a reality that your friends are experiencing as well as you reach the culmination of the plot reveal.
01:29:32.580 --> 01:29:41.400
Phil: I thought that was all done extremely well, though the one criticism I'll say is that I didn't find the epilogue to be pleasing at all.
01:29:43.020 --> 01:29:45.360
Phil: I didn't like the epilogue at all.
01:29:45.380 --> 01:29:54.000
Phil: I thought the game ended at quite a good point, and that if you were going to have an end scene, it probably could have been like a two minute thing.
01:29:54.140 --> 01:30:00.340
Phil: And I felt that the epilogue let the rest of the game down, though it wouldn't influence my total view of the game.
01:30:01.580 --> 01:30:06.720
Tom: I think it definitely felt from the main plot side of things unnecessary.
01:30:07.560 --> 01:30:18.900
Tom: I think it was there just for the resolution to some of the side things, like the Miracle Rats subplot, for example.
01:30:20.540 --> 01:30:38.720
Tom: And I think you don't really need to give it much more thought than that because while there is some commentary on the main story and interaction with main characters, it really does not add anything that was not already said essentially in the final chapter itself.
01:30:39.560 --> 01:30:40.740
Phil: That's right, yeah.
01:30:41.240 --> 01:30:55.620
Tom: So I think that was more so a slightly awkward pacing thing that they ran into where they couldn't figure out how to shove the conclusion to some of the side stuff into the final day.
01:30:56.140 --> 01:30:58.660
Phil: Right, awkward is the best description of it.
01:30:59.940 --> 01:31:01.720
Phil: So if you just...
01:31:01.780 --> 01:31:04.860
Phil: At this point, I'm just happy to listen to any impressions you have.
01:31:04.880 --> 01:31:06.280
Phil: I've basically said everything I need to say.
01:31:06.300 --> 01:31:19.260
Tom: Well, we will have to go into spoiler territory in the end of the impressions, but two things before we get to that that I think we don't need to mention.
01:31:19.280 --> 01:31:30.460
Tom: The first is, and I'm not sure if I've said this before, but we talked about how much the game makes out of the simplicity of the animation and the writing.
01:31:31.400 --> 01:32:02.600
Tom: It is an amazing testament to the sound design and the music that even with such incredible visual design and incredible writing, the music and the sound design still stands out as driving the entire game essentially, which is just extraordinary given how good and how much is done with fine details in the writing and in the visual design.
01:32:03.260 --> 01:32:03.700
Phil: Indeed.
01:32:05.140 --> 01:32:16.900
Tom: And the other thing that I think stood out about the story, which I think we don't need to go into spoilers to talk about, is the setting is amazing.
01:32:17.020 --> 01:32:42.980
Tom: And if you think about it, it is a setting that is rather ignored, perhaps even taboo in other mediums, because it is set in a Pennsylvania mining town that has gone into industrial decline with the mining no longer driving the economy of the town.
01:32:43.440 --> 01:33:03.160
Tom: And all that is left there for the people is shitty retail jobs that offer no sense of community, because the community has died with the mines, because the community of the place was based on the working class connections between unions and so forth.
01:33:03.580 --> 01:33:22.520
Tom: I mean, this, for anyone who is interested in this, who is interested in American politics or politics in general, should be obviously very relevant to the present state of politics, the world over, and particularly in America with their last election result.
01:33:22.980 --> 01:33:45.700
Tom: So it's fascinating seeing this being depicted in a game and on top of that, not only being depicted in a game, in any medium really, because while you will get references to this, there really aren't many stories in any medium that are directly tackling this sort of thing that I can think of anyway.
01:33:45.820 --> 01:33:48.180
Tom: You may have come across more than I have.
01:33:49.080 --> 01:33:58.960
Phil: Well, I think that, you know, you don't see Pennsylvania and these, you know, rust belt states featured as a location for many video games.
01:34:00.100 --> 01:34:01.560
Phil: Now, when did this game come out?
01:34:02.500 --> 01:34:06.580
Phil: Obviously, it's come out since the election, or the last federal election.
01:34:07.660 --> 01:34:09.120
Phil: Pennsylvania went to Trump.
01:34:09.700 --> 01:34:12.340
Phil: Biden and Trump are both there campaigning today as it is.
01:34:12.360 --> 01:34:13.280
Tom: 2017.
01:34:13.300 --> 01:34:14.080
Phil: Yeah, 2017.
01:34:14.100 --> 01:34:17.500
Tom: So it would have been in development potentially before then.
01:34:17.520 --> 01:34:22.320
Phil: Yeah, so basically the whole concept is that they are...
01:34:22.340 --> 01:34:24.980
Tom: Development began in 2013.
01:34:26.720 --> 01:34:31.320
Phil: But, I mean, that just really underscores the whole position that Trump got elected.
01:34:31.580 --> 01:34:41.100
Phil: We don't want to get into politics, but Trump got elected basically because there's a whole massive group of people who feel like they've been forgotten in the United States because of the change from...
01:34:41.120 --> 01:34:43.740
Tom: I believe they're known colloquially as the deplorables.
01:34:44.520 --> 01:34:46.900
Phil: Well, that's what Hillary referred to them as, yeah.
01:34:47.320 --> 01:34:50.460
Phil: So basically that's the environment in which you're working.
01:34:50.700 --> 01:34:57.700
Phil: This has been something that's covered in other genres such as the Deer Hunter, I would say, the movie from the 1970s.
01:34:57.720 --> 01:34:58.760
Tom: Yeah, but that's from the 70s.
01:34:58.780 --> 01:35:15.860
Tom: I'm saying this is a fascinating thing as a contemporary work of art because as it is tremendously relevant today, it is also a little bit taboo in a sense.
01:35:16.480 --> 01:35:24.380
Phil: Yeah, but it's raw and it's real and I think that the major plot of the game requires it.
01:35:26.260 --> 01:35:28.520
Tom: Well, the plot of the game is about that.
01:35:29.540 --> 01:35:48.220
Tom: It is thematically about mental illness, yes, and the disaffection of many young adults in the education system, but it always links these things to its economic themes.
01:35:49.460 --> 01:35:52.060
Tom: So it is the main theme of the game.
01:35:52.820 --> 01:35:53.700
Phil: Yeah, absolutely.
01:35:54.140 --> 01:36:13.140
Tom: And this is a theme, at least the political results of this sort of thing, is a theme that is at the forefront of many people's minds today, but the potential causations of that is not really covered in much art or media in general.
01:36:13.160 --> 01:36:25.580
Tom: So it really stands out, and it is handled amazingly well, because even the murder cult, potential murder cult...
01:36:26.580 --> 01:36:27.760
Tom: Yeah, we're now getting to spoilers.
01:36:27.940 --> 01:36:37.580
Phil: But back to your point there too, I think that's the whole thing about Brexit as well, is that people feeling that they've been left behind or left out, and that people aren't worried about them.
01:36:38.160 --> 01:36:52.980
Phil: So as we get into the spoilers here, there is a murder cult, and much like ICO, I imagine, where they feel that they must sacrifice people's real lives in order for the benefit of the greater community.
01:36:53.200 --> 01:36:54.040
Phil: Yep.
01:36:54.240 --> 01:37:05.900
Phil: So basically, there's a whole bunch of hooded people, and I was expecting a KKK, and I say KKK because I can't actually say the words.
01:37:09.280 --> 01:37:16.580
Phil: Yeah, not for political reasons, but because of the other speech impediment that we've discussed before with me and you and O.
01:37:16.600 --> 01:37:19.340
Phil: I can't do it.
01:37:19.360 --> 01:37:42.440
Phil: So I was always expecting some sort of KKK type thing, but in fact, it's a union thing, and these people who have been dispossessed of their jobs feel that periodic human sacrifice is required to keep the township of Possum Springs going, and that's what they're doing.
01:37:42.940 --> 01:38:14.220
Tom: Which was a big relief to me that they managed to connect it to the themes of the game because when you approach it from the whole mental illness story of May and her nervous breakdowns and difficulties with coping with life, and also the metaphysical religious themes, and again, managing to work that into the economic commentary is just amazing.
01:38:14.240 --> 01:38:15.080
Phil: It was brilliant.
01:38:15.700 --> 01:38:21.120
Phil: I'm sorry I keep using that word, but it would have been so easy just to do a clan thing.
01:38:22.340 --> 01:38:24.500
Phil: It would have been so easy.
01:38:24.520 --> 01:38:48.580
Tom: If they did that, I would have hated it, because it would totally destroy any of the dramatic and thematic seriousness and emotional resonance of May's return from university and her attempt, yet inability, to cope with life, and her ongoing nervous breakdown that develops as the game goes on.
01:38:49.660 --> 01:39:08.620
Tom: If it made material her fears and anxieties as just some generic horror or uninteresting societal commentary that was not linked to the main non-mental illness theories of the game.
01:39:10.580 --> 01:39:15.500
Phil: The story is so multi-threaded, but simple at the same time.
01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:18.320
Phil: It's like a tapestry, but it's simple.
01:39:18.880 --> 01:39:31.220
Phil: And it really is so impressive that they were able to draw together all of these things, that the writers were able to draw all these things together before you even realize what's going on.
01:39:31.240 --> 01:39:32.180
Phil: And that's what's so good.
01:39:32.240 --> 01:39:39.120
Phil: Like with the sound design, the sound design is great and you notice it, in which point you should say, well, is it really great if you notice it?
01:39:39.540 --> 01:39:41.540
Phil: But with the writing, you don't notice it.
01:39:41.580 --> 01:39:42.660
Phil: It sneaks up on you.
01:39:42.920 --> 01:39:44.920
Phil: They're doing this throughout the game.
01:39:45.300 --> 01:39:46.120
Phil: They're building on it.
01:39:46.140 --> 01:39:52.860
Tom: You notice the dialogue, but you do not notice the important part of the writing, which is the themes and the narrative.
01:39:53.100 --> 01:39:54.860
Phil: Yeah, it's just exceptional.
01:39:55.000 --> 01:40:09.620
Tom: And the other amazing thing about it is, is the whole, after the unions have essentially capitulated, which I thought was another interest, unflinching and amazing depiction of it.
01:40:09.620 --> 01:40:19.360
Tom: Because it's throughout the whole, it's obviously very sympathetic to unions throughout the game, and at the end, and the working classes.
01:40:19.640 --> 01:40:30.500
Tom: But it does not in any way patronise them, or avoid the capitulation that occurred in places like Pennsylvania.
01:40:31.540 --> 01:40:49.620
Tom: And the metaphor of a murder cult it uses is one that is a popular and a reasonable argument about that style of politics, of essentially thinking about it as a human sacrifice and death cult.
01:40:51.560 --> 01:41:02.460
Tom: But it does that without at any point either patronising the death cult, or not treating them with compassion.
01:41:04.680 --> 01:41:18.060
Tom: And as people whose concerns should be listened to and considered, even if you find the expression of them to be despicable.
01:41:18.500 --> 01:41:31.420
Tom: Which I think is again, just amazing, and handled in a manner that is, would be impressive in any medium full stop.
01:41:32.740 --> 01:41:43.520
Phil: I've got to say, like when I think about that, and I think about capitulation and the union movement in the United States, capitulation is death for a union.
01:41:43.720 --> 01:41:54.400
Phil: And I saw this in 2013 with the grocery workers strike, where basically they did exactly what happened in this game, at Night in the Woods.
01:41:55.540 --> 01:42:07.080
Phil: The older union members basically, and I've seen this again and again and again in union movements, sacrificed the young, meaning the new people coming on, for the old.
01:42:07.160 --> 01:42:24.840
Phil: So basically the grocery union workers said, as long as you keep all our benefits intact, anyone hired after 2014, yeah, you can pay minimum wage and they won't get the pension subsidies or contributions that we get, as long as we're taken care of.
01:42:25.000 --> 01:42:34.900
Phil: And that is the selfishness that's seen in this game with these miners basically saying, well, we'll sacrifice the youth so long as we can keep the general good going.
01:42:35.100 --> 01:42:35.400
Tom: Yeah.
01:42:35.820 --> 01:42:42.420
Phil: And that might be painting with a very broad brush, but the union movement in the United States is essentially dead.
01:42:42.620 --> 01:42:43.120
Phil: It's gone.
01:42:43.220 --> 01:42:43.800
Phil: It's finished.
01:42:43.820 --> 01:42:46.140
Phil: There's no powerful unions in the United States.
01:42:46.540 --> 01:42:56.000
Phil: Whereas here in Australia, though they are weakening, we still have a pretty good union movement, though nowhere where it needs to be.
01:42:56.020 --> 01:43:03.640
Phil: And unfortunately, some of the strongest unions are those that are owned by the government, like, you know, teachers unions and nurses unions and things like that.
01:43:05.480 --> 01:43:09.220
Phil: So yeah, that's an interesting point about capitulation.
01:43:10.740 --> 01:43:16.880
Tom: And again, just another example of how amazing, amazingly written the game is.
01:43:17.200 --> 01:43:17.460
Phil: Yes.
01:43:20.040 --> 01:43:24.240
Tom: But I think that's probably all I have to say about it that I can think of.
01:43:25.080 --> 01:43:28.140
Phil: Now, obviously, like, I just wanted to talk to you.
01:43:28.740 --> 01:43:30.120
Tom: Oh, wait, no, I'm forgetting.
01:43:30.460 --> 01:43:40.480
Tom: So we mentioned the Guitar Hero minigame, which is a genuinely good, if not great rhythm game in a game.
01:43:41.520 --> 01:43:57.700
Tom: This also features a minigame called Demon Tower, which is a genuinely great 2D Zelda-style top-down action game in the vein of Titan Souls and Hyper Light Drifter.
01:43:57.700 --> 01:43:59.140
Tom: And it is as good.
01:43:59.340 --> 01:44:00.940
Tom: It's better than Hyper Light Drifter.
01:44:01.300 --> 01:44:04.400
Tom: And mechanically, it's arguably better than Titan Souls.
01:44:04.420 --> 01:44:11.300
Tom: I think the level design or rather boss design in Titan Souls is on another level.
01:44:11.860 --> 01:44:12.720
Tom: It's just amazing.
01:44:12.740 --> 01:44:15.240
Tom: It probably puts it slightly above Demon Tower.
01:44:15.540 --> 01:44:21.600
Tom: But mechanically, it feels so precise and satisfying.
01:44:21.620 --> 01:44:22.500
Tom: And it is so simple.
01:44:22.520 --> 01:44:27.200
Tom: You've essentially just got a dodge button and an attack button.
01:44:27.380 --> 01:44:29.440
Tom: And you've got bars of stamina.
01:44:29.440 --> 01:44:31.500
Tom: And when you dodge, it uses a bar of stamina.
01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:34.120
Tom: And when you attack, it uses a bar of stamina.
01:44:36.600 --> 01:44:38.220
Tom: And the levels are really simple.
01:44:38.240 --> 01:44:42.540
Tom: They're usually basically just a square block with sometimes some paths through it.
01:44:42.780 --> 01:44:45.420
Tom: And you have to find a room which has a key.
01:44:45.440 --> 01:44:46.140
Tom: You get the key.
01:44:46.340 --> 01:44:48.680
Tom: You can then go to the boss room and fight the boss.
01:44:49.560 --> 01:44:51.640
Tom: The bosses are pretty simple.
01:44:52.820 --> 01:44:57.580
Tom: But there are some interesting creative choices with them.
01:44:57.640 --> 01:45:01.200
Tom: For instance, one boss, as they're moving around the level, they're bleeding.
01:45:01.220 --> 01:45:03.980
Tom: And if you touch their blood, you take damage.
01:45:04.940 --> 01:45:11.920
Tom: So you have to figure out how to attack them without taking damage by walking in their blood.
01:45:12.360 --> 01:45:24.460
Tom: And as you're playing through the game, the difficulty increases not just with more types of enemies, each of which is really unique and interesting to figure out how to dodge.
01:45:25.620 --> 01:45:30.100
Tom: You also lose one of your bars of health, but you gain bars of stamina.
01:45:30.380 --> 01:45:45.520
Tom: So you become faster, sorry, you become better at attacking and better at dodging, but you die quicker, which creates this great dynamic as you're going along, where it really rewards skill, but punishes any mistake you make.
01:45:46.360 --> 01:46:01.940
Tom: So in this game, it doesn't just have a great rhythm mini game, it has a great indie 2D retro-style dungeon crawling game that is as good as the likes of Titan Souls and Hyper Light Drifter, among others.
01:46:03.080 --> 01:46:12.100
Phil: I think if we were to posthumously award a 2017 Gundy for Game of the Year, this would have to be it.
01:46:12.120 --> 01:46:18.720
Phil: I mean, Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey basically were the Game of the Year for 2017.
01:46:18.740 --> 01:46:20.580
Tom: What were our Games of the Year for 2017?
01:46:20.600 --> 01:46:22.560
Phil: Well, I don't know that we did it in 2017.
01:46:22.580 --> 01:46:23.620
Phil: We'd have to go back and look.
01:46:23.680 --> 01:46:28.840
Phil: But I think that this is really, with what you've said about this...
01:46:29.680 --> 01:46:32.020
Tom: this would get into the Games of the Decade.
01:46:32.380 --> 01:46:33.220
Phil: Yeah, definitely.
01:46:33.520 --> 01:46:35.080
Tom: Not just 2017.
01:46:35.100 --> 01:46:38.040
Tom: This would be in certainly my top ten.
01:46:38.440 --> 01:46:39.340
Phil: Oh, mine as well.
01:46:39.560 --> 01:46:41.980
Phil: And it'd be probably in the top five, I'd say.
01:46:43.560 --> 01:46:47.820
Phil: Maybe not, but yeah, it'd definitely be in my top ten of the 2010s.
01:46:49.220 --> 01:46:52.880
Phil: So with that, you've got your Diary of Destiny ready to go there?
01:46:53.860 --> 01:46:54.580
Tom: No, I don't.
01:46:54.700 --> 01:46:55.740
Phil: I will get one.
01:46:55.760 --> 01:46:56.760
Tom: You give your score.
01:46:56.780 --> 01:46:58.920
Phil: Well, we're going to close out this podcast now then.
01:47:00.020 --> 01:47:10.360
Phil: Tom's going to get his Diary of Destiny, but thank you for listening, and please go over to gameunder.net where you can read Tom's essay about sky, Children of Light, and some other stories that we've put up recently.
01:47:10.700 --> 01:47:15.000
Phil: But really, we're not a website with a podcast, we're a podcast with a website.
01:47:15.020 --> 01:47:21.160
Phil: So just like and subscribe us, and give us good reviews on Apple so that other listeners can find the show as well.
01:47:21.180 --> 01:47:22.320
Phil: And thank you for your support.
01:47:22.780 --> 01:47:24.900
Phil: I've noticed a pick up in numbers over the last few months.
01:47:26.160 --> 01:47:27.460
Phil: As we've been able to record.
01:47:27.480 --> 01:47:28.720
Tom: That means someone has listened.
01:47:29.200 --> 01:47:30.060
Phil: Yes, yeah.
01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:32.260
Phil: Not just me doing a sound check.
01:47:32.720 --> 01:47:40.300
Phil: So I am happy to give this game a 9 out of 10.
01:47:41.720 --> 01:47:44.360
Tom: And I am now ruling the die of destiny.
01:47:45.420 --> 01:47:46.760
Phil: Keep fingers crossed, everyone.
01:47:47.200 --> 01:48:08.060
Tom: And this game, which I think is one of the best stories about the decline of modern America, as some might put it, full stop in any medium, and I am giving it a 8 out of 10 as the die has landed.
01:48:08.100 --> 01:48:09.180
Phil: Wow, awesome.
01:48:09.440 --> 01:48:10.880
Phil: So everything has worked out great.
01:48:11.300 --> 01:48:12.100
Tom: It has indeed.
01:48:12.120 --> 01:48:14.200
Tom: That's a lucky roll for once.
01:48:14.420 --> 01:48:30.240
Phil: We've already closed out the show, but I do want you to give good thought to the next game that we should both play from our itch.io godsale, because you proposed this, even though I was intending to play it anyway, but you proposed it, and as a result, I really thoroughly enjoyed it.
01:48:30.260 --> 01:48:31.200
Phil: So I thank you for that.
01:48:31.700 --> 01:48:35.680
Phil: And I thank our listeners for listening to episode 130 of The Game Under Podcast.
01:48:35.820 --> 01:48:43.440
Tom: And I do have to bring up Vampyr, because on the website now, or perhaps soon, there will be a short review about it.
01:48:43.720 --> 01:48:45.240
Phil: Yeah, and I've read a preview of that.
01:48:45.240 --> 01:48:53.420
Phil: It's a game by Don't Nod, The Life of Strange People, and I have a ton of questions about it, so hopefully we'll hit that in episode 131.
01:48:53.440 --> 01:48:55.420
Phil: So with that, I am Phil Fogg.
01:48:55.940 --> 01:49:01.940
Tom: I'm Tom Towers, and I must supply a correction, and I've got a question for you, which should be short.
01:49:02.520 --> 01:49:19.440
Tom: But I commented on Lord of the Flies and Thomas Hobbes and their relationship to games and anthropology, and one thing I've noticed is, as listeners are no doubt familiar with, I do make the odd insane comment.
01:49:20.040 --> 01:49:36.000
Tom: But particularly in the sphere of politics and philosophy, you will come across people making just randomly out of the blue completely insane comments, which I do all the time, but I'm aware of, and I get the feeling that they're not aware of it.
01:49:36.020 --> 01:49:56.800
Tom: It's like, for instance, in MineCamp, it seems all perfectly sensible and sane, yet sprinkled throughout it, there's random references to Jews, and it's written by someone else who is insane, but it's apparently not.
01:49:57.260 --> 01:50:06.280
Tom: And you get the sense that Hitler is not aware of the difference between his sane statements and his totally insane ones.
01:50:07.760 --> 01:50:09.620
Phil: Yeah, so those blind spots.
01:50:10.300 --> 01:50:27.020
Phil: And indeed, for you to be aware of your, quote, blind spots, that's incredible, but I'm sure there's tons of stuff that everyone goes through in their daily life where we're saying things or thinking things to us which are completely sane, but don't realize that's one of our insane hangups.
Phil: So yeah, that's really good, Tom.
01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:34.480
Phil: I appreciate that, and I'll talk to you soon on episode 131.
01:50:35.360 --> 01:50:38.120
Tom: And I stand by those insane statements for the record.
01:50:38.500 --> 01:50:39.920
Phil: Hey, it's the only reason I do this show.