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0:00:08 Introduction
0:00:50 Play Magazine's 100 Top Playstation Games
0:13:58 Tom's Top Five Games of All Time
0:22:03 Phil's Top Five Games of All Time (from 2009)
0:24:51 Bayonetta 3
0:33:00 Omori
0:45:00 Jeff Gerstmann giantbomb.gone
0:51:23 GTA 6
0:59:55 Wandersong
1:11:37 Oculus Quest 2
Transcript:
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I am joined as always by, you could potentially call me co-host if you're being generous, Phil Fogg.
Phil: Hey everybody, it's Phil Fogg.
Phil: Back from long COVID and super flu, I have been the reason why we have not been recording.
Phil: It's not on Tom, but it's good to be back.
Tom: It never is.
Tom: I'm a professional.
Tom: I think we have it on record that I did not let some pathetic virus stop us from recording.
Phil: No, no, but at least I got the fever with the super flu.
Phil: But my voice is now almost fully restored and I'm back.
Phil: And I remember in our last episode, we talked about Play Magazine, the Australian version of Play Magazine, which has been around in the UK forever.
Phil: And I gave it, how would you describe my critique of it?
Tom: I can't recall it.
Phil: It was pretty fair handed.
Tom: Not memorable, I would say, very forgettable critique.
Phil: Okay, well, I thought it was pretty good.
Phil: I mean, I thought it was pretty good.
Phil: I think the content was great and all the rest of it.
Phil: So I get the second, what do you say, episode, the second issue of the magazine, because it's the last magazine in Australia.
Phil: Like I went into a massive news agency magazine store the other day, and they basically had Retro Gamer and Play Australia, and that was it in the gaming category.
Phil: I know I complain about this every time, but it's, you know, obviously magazines are dead.
Phil: Now, I've just got to say though, my love for Play, or my, at least, you know, tolerance for Play has-
Phil: Hasn't subsided, they've just listed the greatest PlayStation games of all time.
Phil: And this is where I basically am like, okay, I'm not gonna, it's now gone from me subscribing to supporting a magazine to, okay, I'll pick this up if I'm interested in what's on the cover.
Tom: I just say, I see why I've forgotten your play impressions because you just said that your toleration for playing magazine has not yet subsided, very strong impressions.
Phil: Okay, so anyway, they've put out this top list, right?
Phil: So I'm not gonna go into lists, like I don't, lists are lists, but there are lists that are so bad where you've got to call into question the judgment of the person making the list to the point where I now can't, like, I can't read anything that you write because I can't trust you anymore.
Phil: Just pick a game, for example, Eko, right?
Phil: So Eko, you like that game?
Phil: Would you like to know where in the pantheon of the greatest PlayStation games of all time, Eko falls?
Phil: Like top bottom half?
Tom: I assume top five.
Phil: Top five, that's what, okay, that's a reasonable assumption.
Phil: I mean, it was a breakthrough game.
Phil: Yes, it is not on the top Tom.
Tom: Not on the top at all?
Phil: It is not on the top
Phil: If you'd like to know where it was pipped at the post, was Hotline Miami, which is not even a PlayStation exclusive.
Tom: Hotline Miami is a pretty good game, though.
Phil: It is a pretty good game.
Phil: Is it better than Eko?
Tom: No.
Phil: No, objectively.
Tom: But I would say, I would say that is one of the few games I would say is up there with it.
Tom: But I think Hotline Miami is more so, I think it has more games that it builds upon than Eko does.
Phil: Oh, yeah, definitely.
Phil: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Phil: But still, I mean, Eko, how can Eko not be on the top ?
Phil: Like, even if they gave it...
Tom: Flabbergasting.
Phil: Flabbergasting.
Phil: Vanquish.
Phil: Where do you think Vanquish is?
Tom: I'm going to guess it's not on there.
Phil: Oh,
Phil: It is the th best game.
Phil: And it...
Tom: Well, I think it made my top five third-person shooters of all time.
Phil: Just to give you an idea, Crash Bandicoot Insane Trilogy, which is a re-release of the Crash Bandicoot, you know, it's Crash Bandicoot Collection
Tom: So they didn't even have the density to pick one of the original Crash Bandicoots.
Phil: No, no.
Phil: Yakuza was the only entry in here, starting with Yakuza, and it came in at number
Phil: We'll cut to the chase.
Phil: We'll just get down to, what do you want, the top five or top ?
Tom: Let's do the top
Phil: Okay, top starting at
Phil: Disco Elysium.
Tom: I'm yet to play it, but I have heard good things.
Phil: I've heard good things.
Tom: People do hold it in that level of esteem, pretty much.
Tom: I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
Phil: I wouldn't disagree with that on the basis of what I've heard of it, and I do want to play it.
Phil: Again, not a PlayStation exclusive, you think for the top yeah.
Phil: Number nine, Red Dead Redemption which would not, which I played it to the end.
Phil: It's okay.
Phil: I don't think it would make my top
Tom: I think the original would be a better pick.
Phil: Definitely, yeah.
Phil: Oh, who knows?
Phil: It might be higher in the list.
Tom: I hope not.
Phil: The original Metal Gear Solid for PlayStation
Tom: I think that's acceptable.
Phil: Number eight, and I'm actually, I'm playing the original Metal Gear Solid.
Phil: I've got it like in a few different formats, and I'm actually playing it, the original game on the original hardware.
Phil: Number seven, God of War, the original.
Tom: No.
Tom: Just simply no.
Phil: No, I maybe consider one of the sequels in here, but not the original.
Tom: I wouldn't say top
Phil: Yeah, probably not either.
Tom: Top top I'd accept.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: Shadow of the Colossus.
Phil: Okay, so this is the first where you go, okay, all right.
Phil: Well, Shadow of...
Tom: Well, I knew that was gonna be there when ECO wasn't.
Phil: Yeah, Shadow of the Colossus, number six, Final Fantasy number five.
Tom: Are they serious?
Tom: Final Fantasy
Phil: Final Fantasy
Phil: As the fifth best PlayStation game of all time.
Tom: So I assume the next five games are all gonna be Final Fantasies.
Phil: No, no.
Phil: I'll just give you their justification, not just notable for returning to the iconic setting of Evolus.
Phil: This ambitious JRPG also remembered for how much it switched up, and that innovation echoes through the series to this day.
Phil: Random encounters are out, replaced by always on screen enemies who will give chase if you draw their attention.
Tom: Yes, they turn it into an MMORPG without any other players.
Phil: Okay, well, now is serious, right?
Phil: I mean, these are the big four now.
Phil: Number four, the last of his part two.
Tom: The second one?
Tom: Mm-hmm.
Tom: Well, I can't comment on the second one, but...
Tom: I can.
Phil: I'm playing it right now.
Phil: But we'll save it.
Tom: As we're recording, no less.
Phil: Yeah, we'll save that for another day.
Phil: Number three, the Witcher
Tom: As the best PlayStation game?
Phil: As the third best experience you can have on a PlayStation.
Tom: I would question that.
Tom: Well, now it's been patched okay, but to begin with, it was not a very good experience on a PlayStation.
Tom: I'll just say that much.
Phil: No, not at all.
Phil: And also, you can play The Witcher on a pocket calculator if they still made pocket calculators.
Phil: You don't think Witcher I'd probably go, okay, well, PC.
Phil: I mean, that's the first...
Tom: If it's associated with a platform, it is only the PC.
Phil: Yeah, and you can play it on the Switch right now.
Phil: I mean, I own it for a couple of different formats.
Phil: It's a decent-ish game, but it hasn't really gripped me.
Phil: I can see myself playing.
Phil: Like, if it was the only game I had, I could see myself playing it for like hours or something.
Phil: Okay, so it leaves it down to number and
Phil: Do you want to guess?
Phil: Because, you know...
Tom: As I said, it must be Final Fantasy game.
Tom: So I'm going to go with Final Fantasy IX.
Phil: Okay, number is the worst Uncharted game released.
Phil: Uncharted A Thief's End.
Tom: Are you serious?
Phil: Yes.
Tom: Uncharted
Phil: The worst one.
Phil: The worst one.
Tom: Oh my god.
Phil: Uncharted would not make my top video games, let alone...
Phil: It would make my top PlayStation.
Tom: It would make my possibly bottom games of all time.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: And number we're not probably both going to have a lot of comment on because neither of us have played it.
Tom: It is a PlayStation.
Phil: It is a PlayStation exclusive.
Phil: And it is Bloodborne.
Tom: Interesting number choice.
Tom: I think I can accept that.
Tom: I can accept that.
Phil: I can accept it.
Phil: It is a PlayStation exclusive.
Phil: And I would have said, oh, recency bias.
Phil: But now that I look at it, it was released years ago.
Phil: Can you believe that?
Phil: It was released in
Phil: If someone had asked me when was Bloodborne released, I probably would have said years ago.
Phil: But that's, yeah.
Phil: So having gone through their top I'd love to be able to tell you, Overwatch is on here at
Phil: Assassin's Creed is number for crying out loud.
Phil: It's just a bad list.
Tom: Did they choose which games from which series at random?
Phil: No, I think they would have taken a game.
Phil: Well, I did read it, and basically they did cheat.
Phil: Wherever there was a collection, they used a collection for the most part.
Phil: And then if there was a game that they had in multiple games, they picked the one.
Phil: Like Yakuza is the one that they thought was the best out of the Yakuza.
Tom: But they thought Uncharted was the best Uncharted.
Phil: Yeah, incredibly.
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Phil: Give them credit.
Phil: I mean, Life is Strange is on the list.
Phil: Again, not a PlayStation exclusive.
Tom: Not a great PlayStation exclusive.
Phil: Yeah,
Phil: Hitman at
Phil: So yeah, just there you go.
Phil: Play Australia magazine.
Phil: Poor list, but probably not.
Phil: And do I have anything else to say about that?
Phil: Like that does shoot their credibility down, right?
Tom: I am impressed by it.
Tom: I think they're trying to copy musical lists on the internet in magazines from Rolling Stone that pick things deliberately, controversially to get clicks.
Tom: But I don't think that works as well in an area like games.
Phil: Or magazines.
Phil: I've tried clicking on it.
Phil: It doesn't do anything.
Phil: I've already paid for it.
Tom: Well, all magazines that have any legitimacy are all online now anyway.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: So why do you say clickbait list relating to video games wouldn't work?
Tom: Because I think in games, game fans are usually much more into creating their own lists, but not just creating their own lists, also discussing what games are good or not.
Tom: So what games are considered good and what games aren't considered good is much less not subjective, but much less disputed in games.
Tom: Whereas in music, you have music enthusiasts who will be infuriated and pissed off about these magazine lists, but the average music listener will read through it and not necessarily bat an eyelid.
Tom: Whereas in games, I don't think there's as much crossover in people reading websites between enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts.
Tom: And so just for example, in music enthusiasts, these days are probably not actually reading Rolling Stone.
Tom: But when they see Rolling Stone has said something positive about a group that they hate, they'll then pay attention to Rolling Stone.
Tom: Whereas the casual music listener may be already reading Rolling Stone.
Phil: Yeah, I mean, I haven't read Rolling Stone in probably years.
Phil: I'm going to be mailing you a copy of not this magazine, but the Gamer's Choice Awards magazine of the American magazine Electronic Gaming Monthly.
Tom: Excellent.
Phil: Featured the first shots of Gran Turismo
Phil: And so you can have a look at their own selection of their own list.
Tom: That's a game that should probably have been in the top in front of quite a few others.
Phil: Oh, yeah, for sure.
Phil: I mean, I don't even know where Gran Turismo is on any of these lists.
Phil: So in any case, I'll send this over to you and you can have that.
Phil: It is yours to keep.
Phil: Just as you sent me a copy of Hypermagazine from...
Phil: What year was it?
Phil: Some time ago, October
Phil: So this is a -year-old magazine that you've sent me.
Phil: And in revenge, I'm going to be sending you a -year-old gaming magazine.
Tom: You had to beat me.
Phil: Yep, absolutely.
Phil: Okay, so with that, do you want to get into your worst list or should we get into some of the news?
Tom: Well, we may as well get into my superior top five.
Phil: Yes, so you put together your own top five, this was last week or something, and I found it on the internet.
Tom: Yes.
Phil: Do you want to just start from number five?
Tom: Yeah, I'll begin with number five, The Last Express.
Phil: The Last Express, that's a video game based on a movie with CGI Tom Hanks in it, if I'm not mistaken.
Tom: No, it does not feature CGI Tom Hanks, nor is it based on a movie.
Tom: It is a rotoscoped adventure game.
Phil: Oh, OK, because I have played The Last Express, which is the video game based on the Tom Hanks movie, on the PSP no less.
Phil: So you can just imagine how wonderful it was.
Tom: I don't think that's the same game.
Phil: No, no.
Phil: So The Last Express, when is that?
Phil: Is that a Jordan Mechner game?
Tom: That is indeed a Jordan Mechner game.
Phil: And was it any good?
Phil: Well, obviously, it's your fifth best game of all time.
Tom: It was not only good, it was the fifth best game of all time, I think you'll find.
Phil: Okay, anything else to say about The Last Express?
Tom: I think when you hear rotoscoped adventure game, you already know the quality and you don't need to say anything else.
Tom: But we do talk about things like The Last of Us with its innovative, amazing acting.
Tom: And I would argue that the acting in The Last Express is of a superior level of quality.
Phil: Well, Jordan Mechner did fancy himself as a scriptwriter, or a screenwriter.
Phil: Yeah, I read his autobiography.
Phil: It's not a bad read.
Phil: It's not a good read, but it's not a bad read.
Tom: How is it as a screenplay?
Phil: Terrible.
Phil: Absolutely terrible.
Tom: He didn't quite fulfill his ambitions then.
Tom: Number four is Daytona USA.
Phil: Okay, and is it like a walking sim through the streets of Florida?
Tom: It's a racing sim through the racetrack of Daytona.
Phil: Okay, you're talking about Daytona Sega's arcade game?
Tom: That's right.
Phil: That was also released on the Sega Saturn.
Phil: Yeah, and it's got that.
Tom: Dreamcast and PlayStation may even have made the top play games of all time.
Phil: I love NASCAR video games.
Phil: I played a game that I got at Walmart for like $one Sunday morning called Dirt to Daytona.
Phil: And it is a career sim and it is fantastic.
Phil: And I played one of the EA Daytona games on, I think the Thunder series on the PSP and it's fantastic.
Phil: And I just love it.
Phil: I just love the size, like the pack, you know, you've got other cars out there or whatever.
Phil: I love it.
Phil: I love every aspect of it.
Tom: And number is a Final Fantasy.
Phil: Yes.
Tom: It's not Final Fantasy though.
Phil: Final Fantasy
Tom: Final Fantasy
Phil: ?
Tom:
Phil: Really?
Phil: Really?
Tom: Correct.
Phil: On the original hardware PlayStation?
Tom: I played it on PC actually.
Phil: I've never successfully gotten very far out of the college tutorial component of it.
Phil: So you've obviously beaten it if it's your third best game.
Tom: The Final Fantasy XII and X are the only two Final Fantasies I've beaten actually.
Phil: See, I've beat one through seven and then got stalled at eight.
Phil: I've tried Final Fantasy X a few times.
Phil: I've tried Final Fantasy XV is probably the one that took the most, but I just don't have the time to play it.
Phil: But I actually kind of enjoyed Final Fantasy XV.
Phil: So, okay, so you really actually liked Final Fantasy VIII?
Tom: Yes, I did.
Tom: I think it's ahead of its time as well.
Tom: We've since then seen in the West, Western video game players taking up quirky Japanese school settings in games.
Tom: And I think this was probably the first instance of that being successful in the West.
Tom: So I think it was ahead of its time.
Phil: Like Danganronpa and Persona.
Phil: I don't know about the West.
Phil: I guess Life is Strange is the only one I can think of.
Tom: That's a classic anime game.
Phil: Number two.
Tom: Number two is Grim Fandango.
Phil: Okay, the LucasArts Tim Schafer game.
Tom: That's right.
Tom: I would say easily the best LucasArts adventure game.
Tom: And I would argue Tim Schafer's best work as well.
Phil: And that's the Day of the Dead themed game, right?
Tom: Correct.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Well, that's not bad.
Phil: And of course, number one.
Tom: Is the game that did not even make the top at play, Eko.
Phil: It's easy to see why.
Phil: Journey did make the list, by the way.
Phil: Journey was on there like...
Phil: It wasn't in the top
Phil: Journey was on the top
Phil: But you like Journey and you like...
Phil: You know, that kind of setting.
Phil: So that's understandable.
Phil: It's a very thoughtful game.
Phil: It's a groundbreaking game, really.
Phil: Had no HUD, had no English subtitles.
Phil: You basically had to figure stuff out for yourself.
Tom: I think you could argue that essentially the entire indie model of the first wave of indie games was based on ICO.
Phil: You can almost imagine walking through the settings of ICO in first person and it looking a lot like Edith Finch.
Tom: But a lot better.
Phil: Yeah, a lot better.
Phil: And basically it took the puzzle adventure elements of Tomb Raider, but did it in a very artful way.
Phil: The animation was good, talking about rotoscoping with Jordan Mechner's work with Prince of Persia.
Phil: It was almost to that level of this is a breakthrough, the fluidity of the character models, the black smoke monsters, just captured your imagination.
Phil: I bet that still look great today.
Phil: And then it was also a very charming game in that you were leading this person by the hand.
Phil: When you wanted to save your game, you'd go and sit on a bench, which has since been adopted by so many other games.
Phil: And yeah, the ending post credits, I don't want to spoil it, but there's a scene on the beach that was really charming.
Phil: Really a fantastic game.
Phil: So all joking aside, this is a list that was from several years ago, I think about seven years ago.
Phil: Does it hold up for you?
Phil: Obviously there's some things that you would change today.
Tom: I wouldn't change anything today other than increase the resolution without destroying the lighting, which they did in the remake.
Tom: I have played it, I think, three or four times at various generations of game consoles.
Tom: So I would say it is timeless.
Phil: I didn't mean change ICO, I meant your top five.
Tom: Oh, no, I would not own my top five.
Tom: I stand by it.
Phil: Really?
Phil: Okay.
Phil: I've gone back to the same period, and this is from
Phil: So this is a list from
Phil: Okay, so it's a long time ago.
Phil: I'll give you my top five.
Phil: I actually put together a top
Phil: ICO is not on the top which if I was doing the list today, ICO would be on the top
Phil: So my top five are Super Mario Brothers for Nintendo, which is shocking to me that that's on my top five.
Tom: But my only question would be, have you played enough of it to genuinely put that on the list?
Phil: I've played several hundred hours of the first eight levels.
Phil: Number four, No More Heroes, and I think that was definitely recency bias because I don't think that would be in my top five anymore.
Tom: I do love that game, but I don't think it would make my top five either.
Phil: No, and you're going to just go for here.
Phil: Number three, God of War.
Phil: Now, but this is before the other God of Wars had come out.
Tom: But why would you pick God of War when things like Bayonetta and Devil May Cry exist, is my question.
Phil: Well, Bayonetta did not exist when this came out.
Tom: Okay, but Devil May Cry certainly did.
Phil: Yeah, you're right.
Phil: It would have.
Phil: Number two, again, recency bias, Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slime for the DS.
Phil: Which is hilarious, but this was a time when I was building my house and I didn't have access to...
Phil: I played like a thousand PSP games to completion and DS games.
Phil: So Rocket Slime is a fantastic game.
Tom: I can respect that.
Phil: Definitely in my top
Phil: It's a tower defense game and very charming.
Phil: Definitely in my top but not number two.
Phil: And my number one game, and I'm going to have to really think about this, I don't think it's a bad thing.
Phil: You probably do.
Phil: But my number one game is Resident Evil
Tom: I think that's an all right choice.
Tom: It's just a very boring one.
Phil: It is a very boring one, but I'm a very boring person.
Phil: Anyway, we've dabbled enough with our list.
Phil: And if you're happy to move on, I do...
Phil: speaking of Bayonetta...
Tom: Can I just point out here, the man with rocket slime, or whatever the fuck it's called, in his top five games of all time, called my list the worst top five game list of all time.
Phil: Don't judge it until you play Dragon Quest Heroes, okay?
Phil: It's definitely better than Final Fantasy
Tom: I question that.
Phil: Definitely.
Phil: You gotta try it.
Phil: And you know, it's probably stuck on the DS.
Phil: I doubt you can get it anywhere else.
Phil: But we were speaking about Bayonetta.
Phil: Speaking of Bayonetta, Bayonetta is coming out soon.
Phil: It's actually coming out.
Phil: So Platinum's game, which, you know, we thought, I thought for sure, it was probably never going to come out.
Phil: It would have been Metroid or whatever the newest Metroid is that hasn't been coming out.
Phil: It's coming out in October.
Phil: Are you getting it, first and foremost, on release date?
Tom: I might if I remember to.
Tom: I have to say I'm not particularly excited for it based on the trailers they've released for it thus far.
Phil: What about the trailers, don't you like?
Tom: The early ones, the gameplay looked perhaps a little bit more clunky than previous games in the series.
Tom: And the most recent trailer where that was maybe not so much the case, I think aesthetically, looked much more like Devil May Cry than Bayonetta.
Tom: It had really lost its unique panache and style, I thought.
Phil: Well, I think you're going to have to wait and hold judgement until it comes out.
Phil: I've got it pre-ordered and can't wait to play it.
Phil: I'm actually hopeful because I think that the long delay has meant that this is an important project for Nintendo because you've seen this before with various games where Nintendo will delay and delay and delay.
Phil: And for them to come out and go, yep, no, we're giving this the treatment.
Phil: It's coming out.
Phil: Our stamp of approval is on it.
Phil: I think that you'll probably be disappointed because of the expectations game.
Phil: But at the same time, Bayo had a lot to live up to, but because it was a generational leap, you kind of expected that it was going to be better, you know.
Phil: And I don't know, like, do you put Bayonetta over Bayonetta or...?
Tom: I would put them pretty similar levels.
Tom: I think there's an argument to be made that the combat in Bayonetta is better than but I really enjoyed the structure of
Phil: Yeah, I'm right with you.
Phil: I could not pick one above the other.
Phil: I'd probably go with
Phil: But on the Wii U, they came out with that tremendous box set where they re-released Bayonetta
Tom: And I should add, Bayonetta aesthetically was a huge disappointment compared to the original Bayonetta.
Tom: So it's a general direction that the series seems to be going in where it becomes less and less aesthetically interesting.
Tom: But I think Bayonetta while not as wonderful aesthetically as the original, still had very much its own style.
Tom: I think it's more disappointing for it to be going from its own thing that in games is very much a unique aesthetic, but isn't as original as Bayonetta
Tom: To something that is very much similar to another game series that is even in the same genre, is Bayonetta
Tom: It's not as unique as Bayonetta
Tom: It's not as unique as Bayonetta
Tom: I think it's a bigger disappointment for me than the direction Bayonetta went in aesthetically.
Phil: Yeah, look, I think if you, like I'm an idiot, but so I'd say that Bayonetta like to me had, because I went back and played the Devil May Cry series, the original ones on the PlayStation and Bayonetta to me had an aesthetic, I thought, that was closer, or at least not an aesthetic, but a mood and a theme that was closer to Devil May Cry.
Phil: And I thought that the second game did have a lighter aesthetic theme than the first.
Phil: Do you completely disagree with that, or?
Tom: I think the color palette was similar in one to some of the Devil May Crys.
Phil: That's what I'm looking at.
Tom: And I do think.
Tom: I do think that the actual...
Tom: And obviously it's all based on certain mythological motifs in both series, but I do think the level of depth and the originality of the designs and the originality of the designs in the original Bayonetta made it absolutely nothing like Devil May Cry whatsoever.
Phil: So as an imagination game, you've talked about what your concerns and fears are for Bayonetta
Phil: Do you have any hopes for this one?
Phil: What could they do with this?
Phil: Do you want to see them close out the series in a trilogy type thing?
Phil: From a story perspective, do you really care?
Phil: Or are you just more concerned?
Phil: Would you hope that maybe the mechanics were absolutely spot on?
Phil: What are you looking for for Bayonetta ?
Tom: I think I'd like a combination of the structure of two with the slightly more precise gameplay of the original.
Tom: But I do have to say, I wonder what my experience with it will be, because with the original, that was basically my introduction to beginning to take a beat-em-up more seriously and playing one that had a greater degree of depth to it more seriously, but not really succeeding at that particularly well.
Tom: Then the second was succeeding on what I'd begun to do in the original.
Tom: I think at the moment with my piano playing, the odds of me putting in the time and effort into Bayonetta to play it properly is very, very unlikely.
Tom: So I will be, I think, taking it from a completely new perspective.
Tom: So I'm going into it without any sort of gameplay expectations, I would say, because I don't know how I will be playing it when I play it.
Phil: Yeah, well, that's fair.
Phil: I mean, and you know, this genre is like, well, this franchise is like Yakuza for me, you know, where it's kind of like, I know I can't play this the way I want to, but I'm just going to go and experience it, you know, and still enjoy it, but in a way that's different from, you know, maybe how I've enjoyed the series in the past.
Phil: Looking at their development, you know, they've kind of, I mean, Nier Automata came out in then they didn't do anything for two years until they did Astral Chain on the Switch, which I don't even remember.
Phil: A remaster of Wonderful a mobile game, Soul Cresta, has come out in
Phil: And the other games they're coming out for is Babylon's for Square Enix this year, and Bayonetta
Phil: So, you know, it's an interesting thing because like from to they were just banging out games.
Phil: And now it's obviously slowed.
Phil: I think you've got COVID.
Phil: You've got the complexity of developing AAA games now.
Phil: I guess this is a AAA game or a big budget game, we'll say.
Phil: So I just don't know.
Phil: I just hope that the talent that was there for games that I loved from Platinum, like Vanquish and Bayonetta and Transformers Devastation, and for you, the wonderful I just hope that that talent is still there.
Phil: Obviously, Shinji Mikami is still there and Hideki Kamiya, but you've just got to have...
Phil: And that, I guess, is what gives me hopes for Bayonetta
Phil: A game we don't have to wait to find out whether it's good or not is Omori.
Phil: Now, this is O-M-O-R-I, not Amori, but Omori.
Phil: Is it a Japanese game or a Japanese theme or what's going on with it?
Tom: I think it's American, but inspired by JRPGs.
Phil: Okay, and this is available on pretty much everything, Mac, Windows, Switch, Xbox, PlayStation.
Phil: And what sort of game is it?
Tom: Well, it is basically an RPG maker style JRPG, but American made JRPG.
Tom: And the interesting hook that it has is the combat system is based on emotions.
Tom: So there's angry, there is sad, and there is happy.
Tom: And happy is stronger than sad.
Tom: Angry is, sorry, happy is stronger than angry.
Tom: Angry is stronger than sad and sad is stronger than happy.
Phil: Okay, so it's like rock, paper, scissors, type, rush them on or whatever they call it, right?
Tom: Yep, exactly.
Phil: Okay, so happy is better than?
Tom: Happy is better than angry.
Phil: Happy beats angry, but angry beats sad.
Phil: And sad beats happy.
Phil: So sad is a winner, right?
Tom: No, because sad is weak to angry.
Phil: Oh, that's terrible.
Phil: So if someone's sad and then someone angry comes along, the sad person has to lose?
Tom: That's right.
Phil: So where's happy?
Phil: Like, what's happy versus angry?
Tom: Well, happy is weak to sad, and happy is strong against angry.
Phil: Well, I would, okay, I would disagree.
Phil: I mean, happy beats angry any day, because someone can be angry and you just laugh it off.
Tom: Well, that's what it does.
Tom: It does beat angry.
Phil: But I don't think sad, yeah, happy beats angry.
Phil: That's good.
Phil: But I don't think sad beats happy.
Tom: That's because you're a sociopath.
Tom: So when there are people sad around you, you're just as happy as you were to begin with.
Phil: Okay, so if a happy person and a sad person get into a fight, who wins?
Tom: If a happy person and a sad person get into a fight, then the sad person will win.
Phil: Okay, yeah, no, that plays out.
Phil: Yep, okay.
Phil: That's fine.
Phil: I'm good with it.
Phil: Okay, so you said it's an RPG.
Tom: So it's past your psychological analysis.
Phil: Yes, it has now.
Phil: So RPG, I'm glad that, you know, the developers of this game that poured hundreds of their hours of their lives into it have met my rigorous scrutiny of just finding out about their concept.
Phil: So you said it was an RPG maker.
Phil: So RPG maker, my history of RPG maker, was a game on the PlayStation and then the PlayStation where you basically, you know, did a JRPG.
Phil: So you can, is this a game about making JRPGs or is it an actual JRPG or?
Tom: It's not about making JRPGs.
Tom: No, it is a JRPG.
Tom: I will add on the different status, different emotions.
Tom: They also come with different status effects.
Tom: So happy has an increasing light and speed, but a decrease in hit rate.
Tom: Angry has better attack, but worse defense.
Tom: And sad has better defense, but worse speed.
Tom: And I think you take more damage as well, if I remember correctly.
Phil: So what's happy good at?
Tom: Happy is fast and lucky, but inaccurate.
Phil: Yeah, fair enough.
Phil: That plays out as well.
Phil: And I guess the confusion is, this is built on the RPG Maker engine, which has gone on to...
Phil: gone on to, yeah, okay.
Phil: So it's not an RPG Maker, it's just on that engine.
Tom: That's right, yes.
Phil: Okay, and it's been well received by the look of it.
Phil: So what's the setup for it?
Tom: Well, the setup is about halfway through, and this will contain minor spoilers, I suppose.
Tom: It's basically taking place in two different worlds.
Tom: What I presume is the real world, and what I assume is either the characters in the real world's memory of the past or a fantasy version of the world in which they're currently inhabiting.
Tom: So the real world, you're walking around a standard American sort of suburban environment with houses, a shopping, a central shopping center area with various shops and a park.
Tom: In the dream time or memory, sorry, fantasy or memory area, you're going through a combination of science fiction and fantasy settings.
Tom: And the main character's name is different in the two, between the two, but other characters' names are the same.
Tom: And in the other world area, you're going on various adventures in a classic RPG sort of style.
Tom: In the real world thing, the gameplay is still in the vein of an RPG, although there are less battles.
Tom: There are no random battles.
Tom: There are only main story boss battles, essentially.
Tom: And you are discovering there, I would say, what is really going on.
Tom: And there are a lot of psychological horror elements that kind of tie the transition between the two worlds together.
Phil: Looking at screens of this game, I can see why it's been compared to Earthbound.
Phil: It looks like a Super Nintendo, well, it looks like Earthbound, basically, in the traversal sections.
Phil: Would you, does it change up from that?
Phil: Does it have, like, cutscenes or anything like that?
Tom: It has cutscenes that are just a series of pictures, essentially, from what I can recall.
Tom: And there are various instances where you can look at mirrors or come across drawings and things like that, where you have a slightly more complex art style than when you're exploring the world, all the battle screens.
Tom: But it is, it is, I haven't played Earthbound or Mother, but it is clearly very inspired by them.
Tom: Well, as I said, it does have many psychological horror elements.
Tom: It's got a strong sense of humor throughout it, and in the real world areas, the focus is very much on interacting with quirky characters, which is the case in the other world areas as well, but there is combat there in addition to that.
Tom: I think the sense of humor in it is extremely good, and it fits the darkness of the...
Tom: I'm sorry, the humor is dark at times as well.
Tom: You are often...
Tom: that one enemy type, for example, are these creatures called sprout moles, and when you first encounter them, you're just going around slaughtering them en masse as if they're mindless creatures.
Tom: As you continue to interact with them gradually more and more, you get to learn more about them and end up exploring one of their cities as well and discover them to be more complex and interesting creatures that they might have first appeared.
Tom: But the amusing thing about it is that this is not addressed like it is in something like...
Tom: What was the RPG Undertale?
Phil: Yes.
Tom: This isn't a major theme of the game.
Tom: Unlike in Undertale, this is just there, which I think adds greatly to the humor of it and makes it very amusing.
Tom: So it is definitely inspired by Earthbound without question.
Phil: It seems also to have been made by a very small team with an auto-director being the artist, Omocat.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: So that's got to be good.
Phil: Now, one of the good things about Undertale and Earthbound for that matter was the music.
Phil: Good music?
Tom: Yep, excellent music.
Tom: Very strong synths and quite a lot of variety as well, actually.
Phil: And what did you play this on?
Tom: I'm playing it on PC via Game Pass.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: So, yeah, okay.
Phil: Because it did originally come out a couple of years ago, but it just released on all the new consoles.
Phil: So Switch, Xbox One and PlayStation and all that sort of thing.
Phil: Yeah, that new PlayStation console.
Phil: Well, fantastic.
Phil: I mean, it sounds good.
Phil: Is there anything else to say about that?
Tom: Probably not until I finish it or get a little bit further into it.
Tom: But I would say for me, the start was very slow and not particularly interesting, but I persevered with it because the music was so enjoyable and the art style was quite pleasant.
Tom: And I think after the start, which is predominantly the psychological horror elements, but without really any context, once you start getting into the humour and once you start exploring the real world as well, I think it's worth sitting through the less interesting beginning.
Phil: Yeah, you know, I played Undertale.
Phil: Earthbound I have not played to completion.
Phil: It's a bit clunky and a bit old, even though I did play it very close to when it came out.
Phil: It's just not.
Phil: I have revisited several times trying to replay it and just not hitting me.
Phil: Undertale, I completely loved and played through, I think, in two sittings.
Phil: And it subsequently built up a following, and now it's cool to not like Undertale or whatever.
Phil: But I thought it was a fantastic game with some fun elements.
Phil: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it.
Phil: But in any case, it's apparently popular to hate on it now.
Tom: One thing I'd add is I think another similarity it has to Undertale is there is a very passionate fan base behind this.
Tom: And I think for me getting into this with having heard that it had a cult following, but not being exposed to it, unlike with Undertale, what makes for I think a, I wouldn't say better experience, but a completely different experience.
Tom: I think there's value to be had both in being exposed to a rabid fan base and going into a game from a much more critical perspective and actually living up to the hype in many ways to just hearing that something is meant to have something substantial behind it, but having no idea why at all.
Phil: Exactly.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: I prefer to go in cold with things.
Phil: And it's sad to me that like apparently Rick and Morty is a similar type of thing where apparently it's got a rabid fan base that turns people off of the actual content.
Phil: I don't go on Reddit.
Phil: I don't seek out any of this stuff.
Phil: I just watch it and I enjoy it and I love it.
Phil: You know, whatever.
Phil: You know, judge me if it's a bad thing to like Rick and Morty, then I guess it's a bad thing to like Rick and Morty.
Phil: I don't really care what other people think.
Phil: I think it's hilarious.
Phil: So speaking of things that are hilarious, I'm not sure if you've heard.
Phil: Had you heard that Jeff Gerstmann is no longer with the company that he co-founded, giantbomb.com?
Tom: I had, and I was confused because I thought he had already left.
Phil: No, so he and Ryan Davis started it, of course, when they broke away from GameSpot.
Phil: And then GameSpot CBS actually bought them back.
Phil: And then after that, CBS got rid of a lot of its web properties, including CNET, which is a massive site, and GameSpot as a part of that giant bomb.
Phil: So they sold it to a company called Red Ventures, which is an investment group.
Phil: He'd been with them for about a year.
Phil: Basically, you know, there's a question.
Phil: Well, he's now got his own podcast, which he's doing by himself.
Phil: And at this point, I'm going to insert a clip from Danny O'Dwyer.
Danny O'Dwyer: Jeff isn't the most social person you'll work with.
Danny O'Dwyer: He commutes to and from Petaluma every day, a -mile drive during Bay Area rush hour.
Danny O'Dwyer: Perhaps it's why he doesn't socialize much after work, or maybe it's a convenient excuse to not have to.
Danny O'Dwyer: At his desk, he sits with headphones on, usually working on something.
Danny O'Dwyer: When he talks to you, he speaks openly and honestly.
Danny O'Dwyer: When he doesn't want to talk, he doesn't.
Phil: That was from his documentary about Jeff Gerstmann a few years ago, which you might remember I did a perfect impersonation of, where basically they said, Jeff Gerstmann, yeah, okay, yeah, he's this guy, but he doesn't really get along with anyone and people don't really get along with him in terms of his work at his workplace.
Tom: It was a classic, classic clip.
Phil: Yeah, it was fantastic.
Tom: And if we could insert a video clip as well, I think my favorite, just to go off on a slightly different note, I think my favorite Jeff Gerstmann memory from Giant Bomb, having never listened to an episode of Giant Bomb, was a short clip of Jeff Gerstmann sitting on a sill and falling off it in the background of a video.
Phil: I haven't seen that.
Phil: But look, hey, Jeff Gerstmann, like he's a similar age to me, similar background in terms of, you know, video gaming at least.
Phil: And so like, he wasn't on, basically how I found out, I downloaded the Giant Bomb cast, and it was all the other people who I really don't care about.
Phil: And Jeff wasn't on there.
Phil: And I was like, oh, well, I won't listen to this, because it's just grown to kind of like not like any of the people that are on Giant Bomb.
Phil: But I kind of listen in there just because it's interesting to hear what, you know, Jeff talk about how much he hates video games, because he apparently doesn't like video games very much.
Phil: Of course, he loves them, but you know, at least that's what he says.
Phil: And then the second episode, they come on and he's also not on.
Phil: And they don't mention him.
Phil: I'm like, well, that's weird, because usually if someone's not on, they'll say, oh, well, you know, Phil Fogg's on assignment, you know.
Phil: They didn't say anything.
Phil: Oh, that's weird.
Phil: So I just basically just went to Wikipedia and put in Jeff Gerstmann's name.
Phil: It's like Jeff Gerstmann was with Giant bomb.com from such and such to today's date.
Phil: I'm like, what?
Phil: So they never said anything about him leading.
Phil: So on the third show, they're basically like, yeah, the only person that had a personal connection to him said basically, Jeff's not here anymore.
Phil: And then they introduced like three new hosts, including Dan Reichert, who was, you know, probably in personality, the closest one to, you know, to Jeff.
Phil: And so and then the other thing is, is like, when Jeff was setting up his new podcast and his new website, he was actually on Twitch, not on Twitch, on Discord, like doing all this, like in real time, like, hey, guys, yeah, so I'm out on my own now and this is what I'm doing and he's like setting up the podcast, like getting the URLs and all the rest of it.
Phil: So it didn't seem to be on his part planned.
Phil: But on the other side of things, they had all these hirings lined up, which to me means that he was pushed.
Tom: Maybe he was pushed off that seal as well.
Phil: Maybe.
Phil: Usually if there's an ownership, you know, person, they'll have a contract that says you got to stay on for months and then there's a non-compete.
Phil: And, you know, he didn't stay on for like a full months.
Phil: Obviously, there's no non-compete because he's gone out and set up his own Patreon and everything.
Phil: He's doing quite well with the Patreon.
Phil: I didn't check on it, but I think, you know, he was making it.
Phil: When I first checked on it like a couple of days later, he was making like $a month.
Phil: He's probably gone way beyond that now.
Tom: I'll be $now.
Phil: Yeah, probably.
Phil: And it's probably something he should have done years and years ago because he wasn't really happy.
Phil: There was this person, Jeff Bacalar, that sort of edged his way in from the CNET side of things and made himself or was promoted to the person in charge of game content at Red Ventures.
Phil: And he's still on the site, you know, and Jeff isn't.
Phil: So in any way, it doesn't really matter.
Phil: His new podcast is a solo podcast, which is right up his alley.
Phil: And it's a long form podcast, so it's usually like two to three hours long.
Phil: But just listening to one person drone on and on like our listeners are now, you know, you just can't do it.
Phil: So I listen to it at like times because after a while you just stop listening because there's no other voice.
Tom: I've calculated the minimum amount he is now making on Patreon, which is $US dollars.
Phil: A month?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: Clearly he should have done this years ago.
Phil: That's outstanding.
Phil: Good for him.
Tom: At The Game Under Podcast, we on the other hand have no Patreon.
Tom: We are not going to sell out.
Tom: We will remain authentic.
Phil: No, and I can do ads for shaving your balls and dick pills until we get an offer.
Tom: Remember to take your dick pills before shaving your balls.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: Well, again, you're giving away the milk for free here, Tom.
Phil: Probably more relevant news.
Phil: I'm not sure if you've caught up with the Gta scuttlebutt from Bloomberg News.
Tom: I'm familiar with a little bit of it.
Phil: Basically, what Bloomberg has come out and said, and I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be FUD, is that Gta is going to be based in Miami.
Phil: They're going to do Miami for starters, and then it's going to dip down into South America, and they're going to add other cities as they go as DLC, either payable or free.
Phil: And basically, it's got a male and a female protagonist.
Phil: You can play for a female as a first time.
Phil: They're bank robbers, a male and a female bank robber.
Phil: And that's basically it.
Phil: I mean, that's the news on Gta
Phil: I'm not particularly...
Phil: I don't really care one way or the other.
Phil: Did you enjoy Grand Theft Auto V, the campaign?
Tom: I thought it was hugely disappointing.
Tom: I think, if I remember correctly, my favorite part was the rock textures.
Phil: Yes.
Tom: That might mean that I was not too impressed by it.
Tom: I think the problem with GTA V, which would appear to be the problem with GTA VI as well, is all of the other Grand Theft Autos either had some amusing, satirical content in them.
Tom: Even Grand Theft Auto IV I would apply this to.
Tom: Or they were in a setting or time period that the people making the game were passionate about.
Tom: Whereas that was not really the case with Grand Theft Auto V at all.
Phil: No, it was just set in the current real world, really.
Phil: And I can only imagine that GTA VI will be as well.
Phil: Well, let's look at this just real quick.
Phil: Grand Theft Auto III set in Liberty City, that was set in a contemporary time.
Phil: I mean, that was set in the period that the game was released.
Phil: It was in the late s.
Phil: And I'd say that Grand Theft Auto III takes place in the late s.
Tom: But I think Grand Theft Auto III was very much focused on being a attempted writing a mafia story slash parody.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: I mean, they were ripping off a couple of different famous movies, which they always do, which is fine.
Phil: And Grand Theft Auto III had the other two iterations, which is Vice City, which went down the s down in Miami, which was a Scarface type, Miami Vice type thing.
Phil: And then Grand Theft Auto III went, did it go back to contemporary time, or do you think it would have been set?
Phil: It was set after Grand Theft Auto III because Claude, the main protagonist in Grand Theft Auto III, makes an appearance.
Phil: So I think Grand Theft Auto Vice City is the only one that reverted to an earlier time.
Tom: San Andreas.
Phil: Yeah, San Andreas, I think was, it had to have taken place in that same era, the early s.
Tom: San Andreas definitely was meant to take place in the s, I believe.
Phil: So maybe Grand Theft Auto III and San, San Andreas happens in its chronology after Grand Theft Auto III.
Phil: So I'm going to say Grand Theft Auto III probably occurs in, let's say,
Tom: I'm sure Grand Theft Auto III must occur after San Andreas.
Phil: Well, they make reference to Claude in the past tense.
Phil: So Claude was the playable character in Grand Theft Auto III.
Phil: There's a scene in San Andreas in Fresno or in Central California where they make a reference to Claude in the past tense.
Phil: That, you know, he's all right.
Phil: He's from Liberty City.
Phil: Now, I would agree with you that if you were to just look at it, look at the evidence, not the storyline, that San Andreas appears to be taking place in, I would say,
Phil: Something like that?
Phil: Yeah, it was something like that.
Phil: And then Grand Theft Auto IV with Nico, that took place at, I think, the same time as it came out, like mid s.
Tom: I would say so.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: And then Grand Theft Auto V came out pretty much, I mean, because they were talking about Facebook and social media and all that sort of thing.
Phil: I think it pretty much came out when it came out too, which is almost years ago.
Phil: I agree.
Phil: The only time they've really gone off timeline would be with Vice City.
Tom: I think we have to assume that they did with San Andreas.
Phil: And San Andreas.
Tom: I think if we want something to not make sense, we should go with the story rather than everything, literally everything else.
Phil: All the evidence, right?
Tom: Yes.
Phil: I don't know why this is such an important point.
Tom: Because it's a video game podcast.
Phil: Yeah, I guess.
Phil: So with Grand Theft Auto I mean, I mean, it's, it's, if come out and say it has a campaign mode and the campaign mode or story mode is, you know, hours long, hours long, I'm there day one.
Phil: If they come out and say it's an experience, it's a life game, blah, blah, blah, you know, eight hour campaign experience.
Phil: And I'm, I'm definitely not, not into it, but it is interesting all the same.
Phil: And I've enjoyed all of the games on the PSP, all of the, you know, Gay Tony and Lost in the Damned, obviously my favorite.
Tom: I think I wouldn't be against it if it is a high quality eight hour experience because Grand Theft Auto V basically consisted of several low quality hour campaigns.
Phil: Yeah, and we've agreed on that before.
Phil: I think it was basically like three DLCs, basically.
Phil: Like, you know, they did Grand Theft Auto IV with Niko, and then you had the brilliant DLCs for Lost in the Damned and Gay Tony.
Phil: If you basically took those three games and put them together, well, Grand Theft Auto IV has obviously got a lot more depth and length than those DLCs, but yeah, I get what you're saying.
Tom: Now, when we talk about Bloomberg, we're referring to Bloomberg, the mainly business focused news source, right?
Phil: No, no, I'm talking about Michael Bloomberg, the presidential guy who ran for president.
Phil: He's an avid Gta fan.
Phil: He's got his own fan site.
Phil: I think it's called bloomberg.com.
Tom: I think it's mikebloomberg.com.
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Phil: And no, he just, you know, even though he's like, you know, in his late s, he's really into this.
Phil: Probably a leading reporter on this.
Tom: Well, I'm relieved that it is Mike Bloomberg because it leads, gives some credence to my theory and hope for the only way they can make Grand Theft Auto interesting, because we know it's set in Miami, and we also know it's set in South America.
Tom: Now, I'm going to assume that this is Mike Bloomberg, an American politician.
Tom: So he believes Cuba is in South America, and that the setting for the game is going to be Miami and Cuba with the theme being the Bay of Pigs invasion, which I think would be right in Rockstar of Olds Wheelhouse.
Phil: Okay, okay, okay.
Phil: What about Rockstar of Olds Wheelhouse?
Phil: Oh, that's the other thing.
Phil: They said they're not going to be punching down with their humor anymore, which I hope means they're not going to be making fun of people with Southern accents that show at Walmart.
Tom: Well, that's the thing.
Tom: That's what is not punching down.
Tom: What is the pole opposite of not punching down than a theme based on The Bay of Pigs, one of the most comical punching up moments in history?
Phil: Definitely.
Tom: I think I'm on to something here.
Phil: I think I'm on to something because if you take it into Cuba, I mean, wouldn't it be in Rox Giles' theme to have you get to Gitmo?
Tom: We fast forward to Gitmo.
Tom: It can span decades.
Tom: We're not just going to get cities as DLC.
Tom: We're going to get different political eras.
Tom: I'm now excited for Gta
Tom: Before we had this discussion, I couldn't have cared less, but now I am hyped with high expectations.
Tom: I think I'm anticipating this more than I am Bayonetta
Phil: I think they're going to have a scene where you break into Gitmo and meet the three guys that are still there.
Phil: Hey, just before we get too far into the news, I did want to tell you about a game that I've been playing.
Phil: I've been playing a ton of games just for our listeners' benefit.
Phil: I've been playing Paper Mario, Kirby, Need for Speed on the Switch, which isn't bad.
Phil: I've got to say it's actually quite good.
Phil: Dragon's Dogma, Luigi Mansion Last of Us Part
Phil: So I also played Wonder Song as well.
Phil: Or Wonder Song.
Phil: Wonder Song.
Phil: Wonder Song?
Tom: Wonder Song.
Tom: I think it's Wonder.
Phil: Wonder.
Phil: Yeah, W-A-N-D-E-R.
Tom: Yeah, as in wandering.
Phil: Yeah, wandering.
Tom: Yes.
Phil: But did you want to basically dip into Wonder Song?
Phil: And you've been, you've played it as well.
Phil: Did you finish the thing?
Tom: Yep, I finished it.
Phil: Okay, so I'm going to describe it this time.
Phil: You're going to look up who made it and when and all the rest of it.
Phil: But this was a game, I think that was available either through Amazon Games, which is a fantastic thing if you've got Amazon Prime.
Tom: I think I played it from one of the sales of the century.
Phil: Of the century, right.
Phil: And I think this was the, yes, and on the PC, so when we refer to the sale of the century, that's itch.io.
Phil: And Wonder Song is a D game.
Phil: I would say that, and you can disagree with any of this, I would say it's very similar to Zelda in terms of it's everything.
Phil: You're basically walking around on a D level, you're going into people's houses, you're talking to them, and they're very much in that same level as the people that you have in Zelda.
Phil: They may not be saying, I am error, but it has that same feel of it to me.
Tom: I think there is a bit more character depth to it than Zelda
Phil: Yeah, then the character calling themselves, I am error, and that's the only thing you can say.
Phil: In this game, you are basically picking up on environmental cues that are audio.
Phil: You have essentially, if you can imagine, a color wheel that you can activate using a button on a controller.
Phil: Yeah, it's fun to describe video games.
Phil: A color wheel that comes up around your character.
Phil: So if you heard a bird make a chime, you would then move your analog controller around to mimic that chime, and then that activates a ability or some other thing that happens in the scene so that you can progress through this D platformer.
Phil: So I would say that it has a paper cut style to it, or rather a flat style to it.
Tom: I would say it has an MS Paint aesthetic to it.
Phil: Oh no, no, I wouldn't go that way.
Tom: I don't mean that in an insulting way.
Phil: I would say that it looks alike.
Phil: This is a shitty thing to say.
Phil: It looks like a Unity game.
Phil: Yeah, I think it's a bit better than Paint, but...
Tom: I would say Paint is a lot better than Unity if we're going to be comparing the two.
Phil: As a game engine, I completely agree.
Phil: In terms of compatibility, at least Paint works on all Windows platforms.
Phil: By the way, I love Linux.
Phil: I'm still using my Linux Mint install on my laptop.
Phil: And, oh my god, it's so freeing just not to be...
Phil: Anyway, I won't start talking like a Linux person.
Tom: While we are talking about the art style, I genuinely did not mean that as an insult.
Tom: I think visually it's one of the best indie games I've played because it is extremely darish in its colors, but it does it in a very modern style.
Tom: So it is perhaps the only indie game, you mentioned Zelda that takes what is the basis of old pixel art, which is clashing colors to create really strong contrasts and does it in a modern, completely unpixelated style.
Tom: Also using both contrasts, not just with colors, but also with geometry as well.
Tom: So you have a lot of really simple things, like tree trunks that are just a straight line and trees that might be a green hexagon on this trunk.
Tom: But then you'll have rounded details on characters' hats and hairs and heads and things like that.
Tom: It's actually, I think, a really complex and exceptionally well-done art style that I haven't seen any indie game, other indie game, doing that is taking this old sort of design principles from the pixel art era of games and building on it and creating a totally new aesthetic effect that is on the same principles, but with modern technology that isn't just doing the same thing, but with finer detail because you can use more pixels now.
Phil: Yeah, I mean, you're bringing up an interesting point.
Phil: I wasn't immediately struck by the visual quality of the game.
Phil: You like, you know, I kind of compared it a little bit to a night in the woods.
Phil: And I thought that, you know, like, you know, in my mind's eye, I think a night in the woods has a better, I don't know if it's a better aesthetic, because night in the woods just kind of looks like a, an animated kids TV show.
Phil: Is this any different from that?
Tom: I think this is very different from that.
Tom: Whereas night in the woods is, as you said, just a much more standard, cartoony art style.
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
Phil: I mean, they could take night in the woods and turn it into a kids show.
Phil: And you'd just, you'd be like, yeah, okay, I get it.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: Okay, yeah, no, that's fair.
Phil: That's fair.
Phil: Now, I've only played about two hours of the game.
Phil: So does that music tool, that music interface with the color wheel where you're replicating sounds that you hear in the environment, which was kind of, I mean, it was very cool.
Phil: It was like, if you want to think about it, like, you know, guitar hero type thing or rhythm game type thing, it was very much like that, but different as well.
Phil: Does that continue throughout the game?
Phil: Does it evolve into something?
Tom: Yep, it gets progressively more complex as you're going along.
Tom: And I think the thing that surprised me about it the most is that they consistently come up with new ways of using it to keep things interesting, because the gameplay is extremely simple in each individual section, but they managed to come up with different ways to use this mechanic, but it remains interesting until the end of the game, or at least it did for me, which I was very impressed by.
Phil: And how long is this game?
Tom: Five to eight hours, depending on how fast you are, would be my estimate.
Tom: So for taking such a simple mechanic and coming up with new ideas consistently, I think that's a pretty good effort.
Phil: In terms of its narrative, I mean, it's one of wards for its story, basically to me, it was just a, okay, again, I've only played the first couple of hours, so it's basically like you're a child and you're in a village and you're doing things that is helping the village.
Phil: I'm assuming it goes to more meaningful places for it to win.
Tom: Well, you're playing as a bard and a fairy appears to the bard and tells the bard that the universe is ending and that the bard has to go off and save the universe, essentially.
Phil: That's right, which is a pretty typical setup, really.
Tom: Yep, yep.
Tom: And they do do some interesting things with this.
Tom: I think it is a game where it's best played without having anything spoiled about it because they, likely with the gameplay, they take this very simple premise and add progressively more and more interesting and amusing wrinkles to it so that it becomes something that is a lot more interesting than it first appears to be.
Phil: Seems to me like I should get back to it and keep going with it.
Phil: I did enjoy it while I was playing it.
Phil: If you're wondering at home where you can play it, it is available on Mac and Windows and Switch, PlayStation and Xbox One, and was released back in
Phil: Again, it is probably the most relevant platform you can get it on is Windows and Switch at this point.
Phil: And it was fairly well received beyond the awards it got for its story.
Phil: It received scores averaging out about out of
Tom: And I would recommend persevering with it because it didn't make a great first impression on me.
Tom: But as I continued on, not unlike Omori, it turned out that there was more than there first appeared to it.
Phil: And like with Undertale and Stardew Valley, this game was developed by its composer as well, which is always a big plus.
Tom: Oh, and I will add, that reminds me, I think one of the most enjoyable little things in it throughout the game is there are several instances where you get to compose your own song that becomes a part of the game.
Phil: Oh, cool.
Phil: Which I can see the appeal for you there, you being a musician and...
Tom: I would be a loose use of that term, but yes.
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Phil: Anything else on Wonder Song?
Tom: Um, I think we need to roll the die of destiny.
Phil: Oh, that's true.
Phil: It's Final Impressions, isn't it?
Tom: Yes, it is.
Tom: So here we go.
Tom: Unfortunately, Wonder Song gets a out of
Phil: No, no, that's got to be wrong.
Phil: I think it made an out of
Tom: No, a out of
Phil: Were you holding the dice upside down?
Tom: Well, I don't think you can hold a dice upside down.
Phil: Oh yeah, you can.
Phil: You just put a dice in your hand, and then you hold it upside down.
Tom: So that would be in orientation to your hand.
Phil: Yeah, in orientation to the surface at which you're going to throw it.
Phil: In the Northern Hemisphere, this has a completely...
Phil: You probably just threw a Northern Hemisphere die roll.
Phil: Just do a down under for The Game Under Podcast at gameunder.net.
Tom: So does that mean I should hold it under my hand?
Phil: I think you should just do the reverse of what you just did and see what we get.
Tom: Well, the first time I think my hand...
Tom: The palm was probably facing up the first time.
Phil: See, that's your problem.
Tom: So this time we'll go for a downward facing palm roll.
Phil: Downward facing.
Tom: Well, that did result in an improvement.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: It went up to a out of
Phil: A ?
Phil: Okay, maybe you did a little sideways...
Phil: You maybe did a...
Phil: You need to do a South American dice roll from the side.
Phil: And then we'll add that.
Tom: We've now got a out of
Phil: Oh, there you go.
Phil: That's what we needed.
Phil: Okay, so that was Wonder Song.
Phil: As I said, it's probably most relevant to you if you have a PC or a Switch.
Phil: Fantastic game by Tom Towers' view, which means it is a must play.
Phil: One final piece of news, I see, and then we'll close out the show, I see that you are, your investment plan has worked out quite well.
Phil: You bought an Oculus Quest
Phil: It's now gone up in value.
Phil: Well, not because of the, you know, thousands of pirated games you put on it, but because the makers of your headset, Facebook, also known as Meta, did something that is, I think, unprecedented, but probably not exclusive.
Phil: I think if we really looked at it, we might find a difference.
Phil: But they put the price up.
Phil: So right now, an Oculus Quest is $in Australia.
Phil: And they put the price up by $in the US, $in Japan.
Phil: My question is, because my whole thing was, I'm not going to buy a Quest
Phil: I'm going to wait until Quest comes out, and then I'll buy a Quest on the cheap.
Phil: So now that whole thing's been scuttled.
Phil: Drew the question.
Phil: You haven't talked about it much lately.
Phil: How is your meta quest going?
Tom: It's still going okay.
Tom: Since the collarbone, it has been impractical to play, though.
Tom: Due to the double-handed motion control scheme.
Phil: So what you're saying is you might be able to move one cheap to a cohort.
Tom: I would probably keep it though, because I do want to play what would probably be not just game of all time, but game of the universe for you, which is Resident Evil VR.
Tom: It should be possible soon.
Phil: I think, yeah, that sounds nausea-inducing.
Phil: But you were okay with all that, weren't you?
Tom: It depends on the game.
Tom: Yeah, yeah.
Phil: Okay, well, with that, unless you've got anything else you want to talk about, I think we can close out the show.
Tom: Well, I do have to bring up something that I think has become an important theme to most game websites, which is Ur-Fascism.
Tom: Because I think we've...
Tom: Ur-Fascism.
Tom: I think the Ur stands for Umberto Reco.
Tom: I have no idea what you're talking about.
Tom: His theory...
Tom: you know Umberto Eco?
Phil: No.
Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Eco.
Tom: The Italian author.
Tom: Yep.
Tom: All over the internet and media, including games media, I think fascism became an interesting topic and they always reference Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism theory and his points of fascism.
Tom: And I have now read Umberto Eco's essays on fascism.
Tom: And I'm a little confused because in all of this media on fascism today that I've seen, that constantly reference Umberto Eco, I have not seen mentioned anywhere that two of the most defining and important characteristics of fascists are one, penis envy, and two, advertising rhetoric.
Tom: So I'm just flabbergasted.
Phil: Go on.
Tom: That's it.
Tom: That's it.
Tom: That's it.
Tom: I'm just shocked that everywhere I see people referencing Umberto Eco and none mentioned penis envy or advertising.
Phil: I'm not well-versed in this topic, but I'm sure many of our listeners are.
Phil: So with that, Umberto Eco, comment.
Phil: Thank you.
Tom: You're welcome.
Tom: And I'm surprised as the psychological expert on The Game Under Podcast that you're not well-versed in penis envy or the theories of advertising.
Phil: Theories of advertising, I could probably talk about for several hours, but the other topic of which you speak, I have certainly interacted with people that have that syndrome, but it's obviously not something I can relate to, but it's not something I've obviously spent a lot of time thinking about other than when I've seen people that I know go out and buy really expensive sports cars.
Phil: But, yeah, I mean, you know, thank you for a classic ending to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: You can visit us at gameunder.net.
Phil: I've got a review up there.
Phil: That's the most recent thing we've posted.
Phil: But, yeah, so with that, I am Phil Fogg.
Tom: I am Tom Towers, an expert on P.Sanford.
Phil: And maybe we can expound on that in the next episode.