Game Under Podcast 135

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Trademark Banter

0:01:34 Australian Politicians

0:02:56 Tom's Taste Test

Introduction

0:12.10 Welcome to the Show

First Impressions - Tom Towers

0:13:00 Sky: Season of Assembly - Beta

Gaming Trivia Quiz

0:25:20 Plastics

0:29:24 Tom Turns the Trivia Tables

Final Impressions - Tom Towers

0:32:53 I Dream of You and Ice Cream - PC

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg

1:02:00 Super Hot (PC)

Final Impressions - Tom Towers

1:10:30 Tom Reviews Phil's Review of Ken Williams' (Sierra Online)

Rare Full Version of Game Under Podcast Theme

1:23:00 In Tribute to Al Lowe

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:10.420 --> 00:00:14.720

Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode 135 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:14.740 --> 00:00:19.340

Phil: I am your co-host, Tom Towers, or Phil Fogg, you be the judge.

00:00:19.740 --> 00:00:22.080

Phil: I think I'm Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by...

00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:24.340

Tom: I hope you're Phil Fogg.

00:00:25.340 --> 00:00:27.520

Tom: I really hope you're Phil Fogg, for my sake.

00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:29.600

Phil: Are you wearing a mask right now?

00:00:30.060 --> 00:00:30.720

Tom: No, I'm not.

00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:36.260

Phil: You know, my state mandated the use of masks across the whole state three days ago.

00:00:36.540 --> 00:00:40.920

Phil: We have to keep wearing masks until they tell us to stop wearing them.

00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:42.240

Tom: We've done that here before.

00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:45.640

Phil: Was it statewide, though, or just to your municipality?

00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:47.300

Tom: No, statewide, I'm pretty sure.

00:00:47.800 --> 00:00:49.480

Phil: It's not great, I can tell you that much.

00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:51.620

Phil: It's not fun wearing this stupid mask.

00:00:52.260 --> 00:00:53.140

Tom: You get used to it.

00:00:53.400 --> 00:00:56.780

Phil: So you may have some audio infidelity with this episode.

00:00:57.580 --> 00:01:02.700

Tom: Well, depending on where you're recording, I do believe you may not need to be presently wearing it.

00:01:03.160 --> 00:01:05.120

Phil: I'm recording this in Studio B.

00:01:05.980 --> 00:01:09.380

Phil: There's no one else here present, so I guess I could take it off.

00:01:10.160 --> 00:01:11.880

Tom: I think you can, in fact, take it off.

00:01:11.900 --> 00:01:15.120

Phil: Alright, well, if you want to get something to eat, I'm going to just take off my mask.

00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:18.360

Tom: You sound significantly different.

00:01:18.740 --> 00:01:21.980

Phil: Yes, I can assure you, I'm very different.

00:01:23.320 --> 00:01:24.220

Tom: Please put it back on.

00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:29.720

Phil: Alright, so enough corona hijinks.

00:01:30.860 --> 00:01:36.640

Phil: You're listening to Australia's longest running video game podcast because you just love to hear us talk about the hottest new games.

00:01:36.860 --> 00:01:46.340

Tom: On the topic of politics, by the way, I think, I just have to say, there's currently a lot of controversy going on in the Australian Parliament at the moment.

00:01:47.040 --> 00:02:11.460

Tom: And I am very disappointed in the Australian population because I have not come across a single joke, sex-related joke, about how masturbating at one's work or engaging in sexual intercourse in a confessional or any of that sort of thing might actually make a politician more sympathetic than they otherwise would be.

00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:14.080

Phil: Well, I must have missed a few stories.

00:02:14.100 --> 00:02:20.780

Phil: The only one I saw was the guy who was texting and engaging with a prostitute while he was sitting in parliament.

00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:22.700

Tom: That's just the latest one.

00:02:23.720 --> 00:02:33.680

Tom: There's been a lot more relatable content that has just been missed by the current Australian population, unfortunately.

00:02:34.020 --> 00:02:36.720

Phil: Yeah, well, there's not a lot of humour going around much anymore.

00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:37.780

Phil: I don't know if you've noticed that.

00:02:38.140 --> 00:02:40.740

Phil: Yeah, well, they're more relatable now, I guess.

00:02:41.500 --> 00:02:53.200

Tom: Now that they're relatable, we can't make fun of them because I think that it has never been a defining characteristic of Australian humour, which is self-deprecating or banter among friends.

00:02:53.620 --> 00:02:55.320

Tom: So that would make even less sense.

00:02:56.160 --> 00:03:06.940

Tom: But we will now be returning to the important, most important gaming topic that I think has graced gaming culture over the past two decades.

00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:13.840

Tom: And we previously had me trying Mountain Dew Energized version.

00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:20.140

Tom: And I've been attempting to buy the non-energized version of Mountain Dew.

00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.340

Tom: But I have failed to find it anywhere.

00:03:23.820 --> 00:03:28.000

Tom: So I'm not sure if it has actually been officially released in Australia.

00:03:28.440 --> 00:03:31.640

Phil: I think they've just changed the name to Mountain Dew Energized.

00:03:32.880 --> 00:03:39.900

Phil: Because everywhere I look now, after you brought that up in the last show, everywhere I see it, it has that little Energized catch tag on the bottom.

00:03:40.100 --> 00:03:42.580

Phil: So I think you are actually drinking the right thing.

00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:43.900

Phil: It's not an energy drink.

00:03:43.920 --> 00:03:46.840

Phil: You're drinking the caffeinated soda known as Mountain Dew.

00:03:47.160 --> 00:03:49.980

Tom: Okay, so it's merely a rebranding exercise.

00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:50.480

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:03:50.620 --> 00:03:51.980

Phil: Or augmentation, yes.

00:03:52.260 --> 00:03:52.620

Tom: Yes.

00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:07.980

Tom: But I did manage to find what I think, I'm pretty sure at some point, was also floating around gaming communities in America, not so much in Australia, a packet of Doritos Cool Ranch.

00:04:08.200 --> 00:04:08.960

Phil: Oh, wow.

00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:10.860

Phil: So those are in Australia now?

00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:12.180

Tom: Apparently.

00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:13.080

Phil: That's great.

00:04:13.320 --> 00:04:15.020

Phil: So you've had some.

00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:17.680

Tom: Well, I'm about to on air.

00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:20.120

Phil: They've got the little green and red dots on them, right?

00:04:20.420 --> 00:04:20.920

Tom: Correct.

00:04:21.100 --> 00:04:22.000

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:04:22.020 --> 00:04:26.280

Phil: And then you've got the base of ranch across the whole chip.

00:04:26.340 --> 00:04:29.840

Phil: Well, I'm glad we've been doing this show for like nine years now.

00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:30.780

Phil: We're in our ninth season.

00:04:31.420 --> 00:04:34.680

Phil: We're finally getting to eating Doritos and Mountain Dew on the air.

00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:41.960

Phil: The area that Giant Bomb originated probably less than nine years ago.

00:04:42.020 --> 00:04:42.960

Phil: But anyway, I'm good.

00:04:42.980 --> 00:04:44.000

Phil: I'm glad we're finally here.

00:04:44.220 --> 00:05:11.920

Tom: Well, it's about time we copied another podcast, but I would like to think that unlike Giant Bomb, where that's a side effect of the fact that they are continually consuming Mountain Dew and Doritos of a variety of different flavors, we're doing it as a high brow ASMR segment, a concept neither you nor I understand, but we're willing to venture into unknown territory for us.

00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:14.360

Phil: We waited until the time was right to do it.

00:05:14.900 --> 00:05:15.440

Tom: Exactly.

00:05:15.460 --> 00:05:16.780

Phil: So you haven't eaten it yet?

00:05:17.460 --> 00:05:17.800

Tom: No.

00:05:17.900 --> 00:05:19.960

Phil: Now have you had ranch dressing?

00:05:22.580 --> 00:05:24.900

Tom: Surely I have at some point had ranch dressing.

00:05:25.060 --> 00:05:25.480

Phil: Okay.

00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:28.320

Phil: I've got to tell you, the ranch dressing we have in Australia is excreable.

00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:31.640

Phil: It's more like mayonnaise than proper Hidden Valley Ranch.

00:05:31.760 --> 00:05:34.620

Phil: So it would be interesting to know if they go...

00:05:35.080 --> 00:05:37.440

Phil: I'm sure they go with the real ranch flavor.

00:05:37.760 --> 00:05:43.200

Phil: So you're probably eating the most ranchiest thing in Australia because it's, you know, imported.

00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:43.960

Phil: Cool Ranch.

00:05:44.440 --> 00:05:44.840

Phil: Okay.

00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:47.500

Phil: And is it called Cool American or Cool Ranch?

00:05:47.520 --> 00:05:50.120

Phil: Because I know in Europe it's called Cool American or something.

00:05:50.140 --> 00:05:51.560

Tom: It's called Cool Ranch.

00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:52.220

Phil: Cool Ranch.

00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:52.720

Phil: You're right.

00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:53.540

Phil: Cool Ranch.

00:05:54.000 --> 00:06:14.260

Tom: And something you won't hear on the Giant Bomb Show, but I thought it might be worth pointing out that a single can of Mountain Dew Energized contains 739 kilojoules, which is 8% of one's total daily intake of kilojoules, apparently.

00:06:15.700 --> 00:06:27.500

Tom: Compared to an entire packet of, wait, no, sorry, compared to 100 grams of Cool Ranch Doritos, which are 2130 kilojoules.

00:06:28.580 --> 00:06:29.340

Phil: Sounds good to me.

00:06:29.780 --> 00:06:45.220

Tom: So it seems like if you drank a can of Mountain Dew Energized and ate a packet of about 300 or 400 grams, so two packets of Doritos Cool Ranch, you would have eaten enough for a day, apparently.

00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:46.180

Phil: That's very efficient.

00:06:46.200 --> 00:06:48.280

Phil: I don't know what these homeless people are complaining about.

00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:50.360

Phil: Just eat two bags of ranch and you're set.

00:06:51.580 --> 00:06:52.420

Tom: Come on.

00:06:52.440 --> 00:06:56.300

Tom: That's what they should be giving out at homeless shelters, none of this fucking soup bullshit.

00:06:56.340 --> 00:06:57.580

Phil: This is the future, man.

00:06:57.680 --> 00:06:59.900

Phil: The future is Cool Ranch, hobo.

00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.360

Phil: We've got to get on to a game sooner or later, but I've got another topic about food related.

00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:05.640

Tom: We'll get to that in a moment.

00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:10.400

Tom: First on air, the magic moment of opening the can.

00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:11.000

Tom: All right.

00:07:11.020 --> 00:07:14.460

Phil: That's not bad.

00:07:17.660 --> 00:07:20.560

Phil: Tom Towers is now pouring Mountain Dew into a glass.

00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:26.660

Tom: This isn't Giant Bomb where they fucking scoff it directly from the can like some sort of animal.

00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:27.800

Phil: I think the word is quaff.

00:07:28.700 --> 00:07:30.120

Phil: Did you say quaff or scoff?

00:07:30.520 --> 00:07:31.420

Tom: I said scoff.

00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:35.520

Tom: I'm speaking to our low brow gamer, to general audience.

00:07:35.980 --> 00:07:37.840

Phil: The word is quaff, listeners at home.

00:07:38.300 --> 00:07:39.980

Phil: Q-U-A-F-F.

00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.560

Tom: I don't think that quaffing is anything that would occur on Giant Bomb though.

00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:46.720

Phil: Yeah, quaffing is A-F-F.

00:07:48.580 --> 00:07:49.320

Phil: Oh, now wait.

00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:50.720

Phil: He's going for the chips.

00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:53.720

Phil: Tom Towers is going for the Cool Ranch.

00:07:54.200 --> 00:07:55.860

Phil: I thought he was going to do these separately.

00:07:56.200 --> 00:07:58.060

Phil: Drink the Mountain Dew then the chips.

00:07:58.080 --> 00:07:59.980

Tom: Well, which should I try first?

00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.500

Phil: Go with the ranch and make sure you put it tongue, like get the full covering of your tongue.

00:08:04.520 --> 00:08:07.640

Tom: So I should put my tongue in the packet, Giant Bomb style.

00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:10.520

Phil: No, no, just get the chip.

00:08:10.880 --> 00:08:13.260

Tom: Just stick my head directly into the packet?

00:08:13.460 --> 00:08:21.320

Phil: No, put the triangle so that the point is toward the front of your tongue and the back two corners are at the back of your mouth and then put it on there.

00:08:21.340 --> 00:08:23.840

Phil: Otherwise, you got to put the tab on properly.

00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:25.140

Phil: And then you'll feel it.

00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:29.200

Phil: And then once the chip starts to get moist, crunch down and enjoy.

00:08:29.700 --> 00:08:36.280

Tom: First, I will comment that it smells pretty much like corn.

00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:43.700

Tom: Maybe a slight papadum sort of smell to it as well.

00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:50.600

Tom: Mainly, I would say from the odor of burnt oil or reused old oil.

00:08:51.920 --> 00:08:57.160

Tom: I'm now placing a triangle of corn directly on my tongue.

00:08:57.300 --> 00:08:57.820

Phil: Here we go.

00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:01.620

Phil: This magic moment brought to you by Doritos Cool Ranch.

00:09:03.020 --> 00:09:04.400

Phil: He's going for the second one.

00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:06.220

Phil: He's gone for the second one.

00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:07.440

Phil: You can't have just one.

00:09:07.560 --> 00:09:08.180

Phil: Proven here.

00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:10.220

Phil: Okay, that's enough.

00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:11.140

Phil: Tell us what you think.

00:09:12.140 --> 00:09:14.520

Tom: Following that up with a sip of Mountain Dew first.

00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:19.200

Phil: Take it full and make sure it gets to the back of the mouth.

00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:27.420

Tom: Well, I would have to say that Doritos Cool Ranch essentially tastes like your standard Dorito.

00:09:27.560 --> 00:09:28.760

Tom: It's not as strong.

00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:34.400

Tom: The spices are not as overpowering as your standard Dorito.

00:09:34.420 --> 00:09:40.680

Tom: It's a subtle of flavor, but that is still very much the main taste that it has.

00:09:41.180 --> 00:10:01.140

Tom: What I will say for it, though, is following, once you have swallowed the chip and maybe had a sip of Mountain Dew, you do get a creamy, mayonnaise-y, slightly sweet, very tangy aftertaste that does set it apart from the standard Dorito.

00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:05.840

Phil: It's like putting a yogurt on top of a samosa or something like that.

00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:06.640

Tom: Exactly.

00:10:06.660 --> 00:10:30.540

Tom: And I would say that probably if you were to do what I advised for your daily intake of kilojoules, which was eat two packets of Doritos and drink a single can of Mountain Dew, I think it would be a more pleasant experience to do that with a packet of Doritos Cool Ranch because it is a subtler flavor with a more pleasant aftertaste.

00:10:30.900 --> 00:10:31.740

Phil: Okay, well good.

00:10:31.760 --> 00:10:32.960

Phil: You're on to a winner.

00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:34.000

Phil: I will have to look for this.

00:10:34.260 --> 00:10:37.320

Phil: Were you able to find this at a major grocery store?

00:10:37.740 --> 00:10:38.900

Tom: Yes, I was indeed.

00:10:38.920 --> 00:10:42.800

Phil: Okay, so it should be reaching my regions in about 10 years then.

00:10:43.160 --> 00:10:43.740

Tom: Correct.

00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:48.000

Tom: And I would say that Mountain Dew is indeed a good complement to it.

00:10:48.020 --> 00:10:55.700

Tom: The tanginess of Mountain Dew fits in very nicely with the aftertaste of the Doritos.

00:10:55.900 --> 00:11:08.040

Tom: And the fact that it is not overpoweringly sweet does not interfere with the basic, extremely strong flavor of the standard Dorito taste that is still there.

00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:12.140

Phil: I wonder how it would go for dry champagne after the Dorito.

00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:13.840

Tom: I think it would work well.

00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:19.340

Tom: It would also, I think, work reasonably well with a pink champagne as well.

00:11:20.260 --> 00:11:22.340

Phil: That's enough about snack foods.

00:11:22.520 --> 00:11:25.360

Phil: We've got far more important things to do to talk about today.

00:11:25.380 --> 00:11:27.520

Phil: We're going to be talking about Hotshot Racing, Super Hot.

00:11:27.640 --> 00:11:30.700

Phil: I Dream of You and Ice Cream, which is a game, not a sentiment.

00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:33.020

Phil: You've got a trivia question for me.

00:11:33.040 --> 00:11:35.080

Phil: We're going to talk about Sky, Season of Assembly.

00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.960

Phil: I've got a few political things to say.

00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:43.800

Phil: And we're going to talk about Not Tonight, a game that we've both been thoroughly enjoying or thoroughly playing.

00:11:43.800 --> 00:11:45.040

Phil: I've been thoroughly enjoying.

00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:50.700

Phil: And I did a micro review of a Ken Williams book, which you have a critique of, I understand.

00:11:51.260 --> 00:11:53.960

Tom: I totally forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

00:11:54.020 --> 00:12:00.360

Phil: Yeah, and then also you've got a massive beef with how I censored you in the last episode.

00:12:00.380 --> 00:12:05.320

Tom: Well, I don't listen to the show, so I have no idea what you did or did not censor.

00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:09.780

Tom: For instance, I've got a running joke about the fact that...

00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:13.300

Tom: is a pedophile.

00:12:13.540 --> 00:12:13.860

Phil: Yes.

00:12:14.420 --> 00:12:20.020

Tom: I do believe you may be removing it from every episode.

00:12:20.180 --> 00:12:23.020

Phil: I've been leaving it in, but I do edit out the person's name.

00:12:23.800 --> 00:12:27.680

Phil: And I just save myself 40 seconds by not saying his or her name.

00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.440

Phil: Who may or may not have...

00:12:31.940 --> 00:12:34.220

Phil: a nano-ball.

00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:35.120

Tom: He certainly didn't...

00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:36.800

Phil: No.

00:12:36.820 --> 00:12:37.720

Phil: Do you buy into the...

00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:39.180

Phil: Okay, this is way off topic.

00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:40.880

Phil: Anyway, stick in there.

00:12:40.900 --> 00:12:51.240

Phil: We've got major beef coming up towards the end of the show, where Tom's going to confront me about some censorship of his comments.

00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.700

Phil: And now he might actually listen to the last episode.

00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:55.840

Phil: So, where do you want to jump into from here?

00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:59.300

Phil: We should definitely, probably talk about a video game at this point.

00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:10.120

Tom: Well, let's talk about Sky Season of Assembly, because that's probably the only recent game that anyone may have heard of.

00:13:10.180 --> 00:13:12.720

Tom: They probably haven't heard of that either, for that matter.

00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:13.660

Phil: I haven't heard of this.

00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:17.780

Phil: Is this finally Sky Children of Ascension coming to Switch?

00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:25.380

Tom: No, this is the upcoming season that will release this month, I think in about a week or so.

00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:28.140

Phil: This is the one you reviewed a couple of episodes ago that was in beta?

00:13:28.660 --> 00:13:30.300

Tom: No, that was the previous season.

00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:36.560

Tom: We should add, I was effusive in my praise of that season.

00:13:36.960 --> 00:14:08.780

Tom: When it got to the live version of the game where everyone was playing it, it was plagued with glitches that essentially meant that for most players, to be able to complete the first half or more of installments to the narrative for the season, they had to be constantly repeating them, doing things like switching to airplane mode to be able to get them to work, and a variety of other things like that.

00:14:08.780 --> 00:14:22.100

Tom: So unfortunately, when that reached live, although it was in the beta essentially glitch free almost, in the actual game, it was a horrendous mess, unfortunately.

00:14:23.020 --> 00:14:25.040

Phil: Well, how did they screw it up?

00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:55.260

Tom: Well, to the degree that they screwed it up, I have no idea because Sky has always been relatively glitchy, particularly as its player base has grown, but the glitches have usually not been on as high a level or in as important part of the game as that, because bear in mind that the seasons, although you can play them for free, they are also paid content.

00:14:55.280 --> 00:15:03.700

Tom: So a lot of people would have paid for that so that they can get further rewards and it was a mess, unfortunately.

00:15:03.940 --> 00:15:08.620

Phil: Okay, so just a quick reset for new listeners or people that aren't familiar with the game.

00:15:09.040 --> 00:15:22.740

Phil: Sky is by that game company that did Flower and Journey and Flow, and it's available on phones only still, right?

00:15:23.380 --> 00:15:26.140

Phil: It's not available on PC or any other console.

00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:28.140

Phil: And it's an MMO.

00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:30.020

Phil: And how would you describe it?

00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.840

Phil: How would you describe it?

00:15:32.860 --> 00:15:35.660

Phil: In terms of the gameplay elements of it?

00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:49.440

Tom: Well, you basically fly around, reliving the memories of spirits, not unlike Journey, but unlike Journey, you have a much greater freedom of movement.

00:15:49.700 --> 00:16:03.400

Tom: And the main gameplay loop, once you have done the reliving of spirits stories, is essentially collecting wax and wings.

00:16:03.420 --> 00:16:19.760

Tom: The wings allow you to fly further, and the wax is the in-game currency which you use to purchase cosmetic items and also trade hearts with other players, which are also used for purchasing cosmetic items.

00:16:19.780 --> 00:16:28.820

Tom: And you also purchase not just cosmetic items, but items that allow you to talk to other players without befriending them and things like that.

00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.160

Phil: They've gotten way into this now.

00:16:32.180 --> 00:16:34.440

Phil: I think this is like the third or fourth year, isn't it?

00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:35.720

Tom: Yeah, it's been...

00:16:35.780 --> 00:16:38.060

Tom: I don't know if it's the fourth year, maybe the third.

00:16:38.400 --> 00:16:39.980

Phil: Well, if you count development.

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.700

Phil: But my point is, do you think this is going to be that game company's thing?

00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:45.920

Phil: Is this what they are now?

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:47.180

Phil: Is this their Fortnite?

00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:52.620

Tom: Well, it has been so successful that that may well be the case.

00:16:53.140 --> 00:16:55.800

Phil: And it's successful in what regions?

00:16:56.660 --> 00:17:01.900

Tom: All over the world, as far as I can tell from the people I've interacted with on it.

00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:16.800

Tom: And it also, due to the structure of it with the seasons, also allows them to still be doing new and creative and interesting things as the game continues.

00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:17.640

Phil: Well, good on them.

00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:19.160

Phil: I mean, obviously it's paying the bills.

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:25.900

Phil: I'm waiting for them to add sticky grenades and ATVs before I jump in.

00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:26.940

Phil: I'm actually serious.

00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.080

Phil: When this comes to Switch, I'll be in it.

00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:33.020

Phil: Yeah, so this new season of Assembly, is it in beta right now?

00:17:33.700 --> 00:17:34.340

Tom: Yes, it is.

00:17:34.360 --> 00:17:37.180

Phil: And anything, what's the notable change?

00:17:38.240 --> 00:18:00.640

Tom: Well, the new area is in the hidden forest, and the narrative I think is not at all as interesting as the previous seasons, which was to me probably the best side story in the game outside of maybe elements of the first and second season.

00:18:01.760 --> 00:18:05.120

Tom: This one is a little bit more comical.

00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:06.260

Tom: It is enjoyable.

00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:21.100

Tom: The concept is basically that you are rebuilding the tree house, or building a tree house for a group of lost scouts lost in the forest.

00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:38.280

Tom: And the one disappointing thing about it is the quests you're doing for them are kind of caught between a problem they have had with trying to find a balance that does not annoy a huge amount of people.

00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:51.800

Tom: A lot of the seasonal spirits whose memories you're reliving, some of them have been extremely difficult, at least compared to the rest of the game.

00:18:51.840 --> 00:19:06.080

Tom: So a lot of people have not liked that, but by the same token, people have also wanted more interesting tasks to do in the quests you're doing, particularly in the side quests.

00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:19.120

Tom: And so what they've basically done in this season is you are going around rather than reliving memories of the characters, although that's still there.

00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:22.460

Tom: There is a small story aspect to the tasks you're doing.

00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:39.140

Tom: You are collecting items that you're using to rebuild the tree house, which is to me anyway a lot less interesting than following around the spirits and watching as their story unfolds.

00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:45.560

Tom: And those are also usually integrated in an interesting way into the environment as well.

00:19:46.340 --> 00:19:51.120

Tom: That's less so the case here, other than a few items that might be difficult to hide.

00:19:51.660 --> 00:20:05.920

Tom: The one interesting thing about it, I would say, is though that some of them, for you to be even able to start them, require multiple people to be there.

00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:17.800

Tom: Whereas other spirits, often to be able to do them due to the difficulty involved and what you're doing, you will need other players, you will be able to start them without other players.

00:20:17.820 --> 00:20:27.660

Tom: Here, you need the players required to be able to begin them, which is an interesting thing and does encourage cooperation.

00:20:28.020 --> 00:20:41.420

Tom: But the actual looking for and finding the items isn't as interesting, I would say, as the spirit memories usually are in the side seasons.

00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:53.160

Tom: The cosmetic items you get in it though, some of them are among the best items, some of them are relatively forgettable.

00:20:53.360 --> 00:21:04.980

Tom: So it's a mixed bag there, but some of them are really detailed and do add something to the current looks that are available.

00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:08.120

Phil: This game was released in...

00:21:08.140 --> 00:21:10.840

Phil: it's coming up on two years in July, so I was way off.

00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:14.000

Tom: That's because you've been waiting to play it all this time.

00:21:14.180 --> 00:21:15.940

Phil: Yeah, it feels like four years.

00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:19.100

Phil: Is there any violence in this game at all?

00:21:19.860 --> 00:21:31.080

Tom: Well, there is the Krill, which is a monster that can attack you and also goes around killing flying mantises.

00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:40.580

Phil: Okay, because I was wondering, you know, Monster Hunter is the topic of the week this week, which I can't care about, but I do want to go back and play the original PlayStation 2 game.

00:21:42.860 --> 00:21:51.760

Phil: But when you were talking about having a sufficient number of people on a quest, I was kind of thinking of raids and, you know, that sort of thing that came around from World of Warcraft.

00:21:51.780 --> 00:21:55.040

Tom: Well, there's no violence that the players themselves engage in.

00:21:55.220 --> 00:21:58.460

Phil: Okay, so there's no, quote, raids, as it were, but...

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:10.200

Tom: But they are helpful in doing certain activities during the quests and in just flying around and collecting wax, slash light, full stop.

00:22:10.220 --> 00:22:15.840

Tom: They are helpful because they do recharge your energy that you use up while flying.

00:22:15.860 --> 00:22:21.080

Phil: Okay, do you have anything else about the latest episode for Sky Children of Light?

00:22:21.760 --> 00:22:47.760

Tom: Not really, just that it is looking like if we pretend that the prior season actually worked properly, not as interesting as that season, but nevertheless, it is adding some interesting cosmetics to the game, and it does provide at least something different, albeit something that is perhaps could be more interesting than it is.

00:22:48.740 --> 00:23:05.200

Tom: The one thing I would add is as well, it also adds a multitude of new accessory items that you use to do stuff in the game, many of which people are still yet to work out what the hell they do.

00:23:05.500 --> 00:23:10.340

Tom: So that, if anything, makes it more intriguing than it otherwise would be.

00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:17.480

Phil: Yeah, look, the fact that you've been so taken with this game, I have to say, are you playing it on Android or iOS?

00:23:18.120 --> 00:23:18.700

Tom: iOS.

00:23:18.820 --> 00:23:23.180

Tom: I play it on an iPhone and an iPad.

00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:34.240

Phil: Okay, and like how do you, like when I sit down to game, like I've got a certain goal in mind, you know, like I don't have like an idle type mentality when it comes to a game.

00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:36.560

Phil: Is this an idle game for you?

00:23:36.580 --> 00:23:38.360

Phil: Is this something you do while you're doing something else?

00:23:38.360 --> 00:23:43.060

Phil: Is this something when you do when you're, you know, tired and...

00:23:43.260 --> 00:24:00.480

Tom: Well, at this stage, most of the time, it is basically a chat room, which I will have on while I'm eating or doing something else and other people, not me, will actually be going through the levels.

00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:29.080

Tom: But when, on the occasions when I actually do fly around and carry friends around rather than being dragged around by them, it remains due to how good the mechanics are and in spite of the essentially endless loop of collecting stuff or perhaps because of it, it remains enjoyable to actually play on the occasions when I am actually playing it.

00:24:29.340 --> 00:24:46.160

Tom: And even after all this long period of time, when playing it, it remains a very relaxing and meditative experience in the vein of Journey and perhaps Flower and other That Game Company games as well.

00:24:49.460 --> 00:25:05.960

Tom: And that style of game actually translates better than most games to an endlessly repetitive gameplay structure as meditation or other such mental activities would as well.

00:25:06.580 --> 00:25:07.560

Phil: Okay, very good.

00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:10.540

Phil: You've always been about community.

00:25:10.560 --> 00:25:12.180

Phil: We talked about that in the last episode.

00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:20.520

Phil: I encourage everyone to listen to the latter part of the last episode where we talked about our early days at gamespot.com.

00:25:21.100 --> 00:25:27.020

Phil: And over at the VG Press, I've started up a gaming trivia quiz at the vgpress.com in the gaming forum.

00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:38.720

Phil: And I did this when I had forgotten my password for my main account, and the administrator for our site has basically ghosted our whole community.

00:25:39.320 --> 00:25:41.800

Phil: So I was unable to get my password reset.

00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:49.480

Phil: So I started this as an alternate identity, very close to my real identity on the site.

00:25:49.900 --> 00:25:52.800

Tom: What would you say is the difference?

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.940

Phil: Well, one is called Aspro, one is called the real Aspro.

00:25:57.620 --> 00:26:00.700

Phil: So I started this gaming trivia thing.

00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:23.020

Phil: And so for the people that aren't part of the VG Press community, like, you know, the very first one, which I think was really obvious to anyone that knows anything about video games, I started with a really easy question, which was what video game system's distinct plastic coloring was chosen by its parsimonious manufacturer due to them being able to buy plastics in that color more cheaply?

00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:30.480

Phil: Now, the obvious answer is the Famicom, the Nintendo Famicom with its maroon plastics.

00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:31.540

Phil: You knew that answer, right?

00:26:31.780 --> 00:26:36.240

Tom: Well, I would have said NES if someone else had not previously said that.

00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:37.720

Phil: But the NES is grey.

00:26:37.800 --> 00:26:38.560

Phil: The NES is...

00:26:40.020 --> 00:26:44.020

Tom: As in the Famicom, because they're also technically the same thing.

00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:45.500

Phil: Well, they're not.

00:26:45.780 --> 00:26:46.480

Phil: They're different.

00:26:46.580 --> 00:26:47.380

Phil: They have different plastics.

00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:53.040

Tom: If you look up Famicom on Wikipedia, I believe it is referred to as the Famicom slash NES.

00:26:53.800 --> 00:27:04.780

Phil: Now, the second question was, Gunpei Yokoi was famous for creating the Game Boy and infamous for creating the Virtual Boy, but what is the name of the non-Nintendo gaming console he created?

00:27:04.800 --> 00:27:06.900

Phil: This is like basic stuff.

00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:09.280

Phil: Everyone knows the answer is one to swan.

00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:11.840

Tom: Well, I think someone got it.

00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:15.180

Phil: Oh, yeah.

00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.020

Phil: So...

00:27:19.320 --> 00:27:25.160

Phil: And somehow you've climbed your way to the top with your expertise in...

00:27:25.320 --> 00:27:26.940

Tom: Second in place, I believe.

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:32.900

Phil: Yeah, well, yeah, but you're ascending because of your knowledge of Michael Jackson.

00:27:36.020 --> 00:27:40.220

Tom: Maybe he's the person I'm accusing of being a pedophile in every episode.

00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:40.820

Phil: Perhaps.

00:27:41.020 --> 00:27:43.440

Tom: Which I think you don't need to censor because he's dead.

00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:44.240

Phil: Dead, exactly.

00:27:44.260 --> 00:27:45.900

Phil: Did I teach you that on a prior show?

00:27:45.920 --> 00:28:01.340

Tom: I don't know, but if anyone wants clues as to who I'm talking about, the joke is because he is evidence that I should not be at risk of being sued for defamation if I accuse someone of being a pedophile.

00:28:01.360 --> 00:28:02.500

Tom: That's what the joke is about.

00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:05.220

Phil: Now, it is true that you cannot slander the dead.

00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:10.100

Phil: You can say anything you want about the dead people, at least in the US, this is the case.

00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:18.560

Phil: And I think I may have taught you this, but anyway, if someone's dead, and maybe this came up with our obituaries, but if someone is dead, you cannot slander them.

00:28:18.860 --> 00:28:20.380

Phil: You cannot be sued for defaming them.

00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:25.480

Phil: Now, what was the other one that you got because of your advanced knowledge of...

00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:26.900

Tom: Metal Gear Solid.

00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:28.100

Phil: No, Stuff's the Zombie.

00:28:30.820 --> 00:28:33.920

Phil: That was just to see if anyone listens to the show at the VG Press.

00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:35.580

Tom: And we proved that they do not.

00:28:35.600 --> 00:28:36.160

Phil: They do not.

00:28:36.180 --> 00:28:37.760

Phil: They do not listen all the way through.

00:28:37.800 --> 00:28:39.540

Phil: So we know, listeners.

00:28:40.540 --> 00:28:42.280

Phil: So anyway, I believe you...

00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:59.160

Phil: First of all, it was one of the best gaming forum moments of my life, where you suggested a password, and in the background, the site's dormant administrator happened to contact me, like, in the same hour, to reset my password.

00:28:59.180 --> 00:29:00.420

Phil: It was just beautiful.

00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:02.620

Phil: I was laughing for, like, 20 minutes.

00:29:02.860 --> 00:29:06.120

Tom: Did he reset it to my suggested password?

00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:06.900

Phil: No, of course he didn't.

00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:09.240

Tom: That's a missed opportunity.

00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:14.400

Phil: He made it, like, 40 characters with special characters and numbers and all the rest.

00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:16.640

Tom: And you then immediately changed it to a single word.

00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:18.860

Phil: Yeah, to super hot or something.

00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.480

Phil: Something, or wonder swan, possibly.

00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:24.140

Phil: So I believe you have a trivia question for me.

00:29:26.520 --> 00:29:27.640

Phil: Now, what's the stakes here?

00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:28.660

Phil: If I don't get it...

00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:31.800

Tom: Then I will post it in the forum.

00:29:32.020 --> 00:29:34.400

Phil: Okay, and someone will get a point for it.

00:29:34.420 --> 00:29:37.560

Tom: And if someone doesn't get it, I will get a point for the leaderboard.

00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:39.900

Phil: Okay, but you've got 24 hours to respond.

00:29:39.940 --> 00:29:45.720

Phil: But this is all a big stretch because obviously I know everything about video games, so hit me.

00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:54.380

Tom: Yes, well, we previously mentioned the male gaze on a prior episode of The Game Under Podcast, perhaps the prior episode, in fact.

00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:07.100

Tom: This concept was actually invented by the English art critic who made several famous BBC documentaries and is a Marxist.

00:30:07.120 --> 00:30:22.660

Tom: Here is one of these Marxist academic intellectuals that are going around who people never reference when they're complaining about Marxist intellectuals because then they may have to engage with an argument that someone is making.

00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:27.660

Tom: But he came up with the concept of the male gaze.

00:30:27.840 --> 00:30:30.240

Tom: His name is John Peter Berger.

00:30:31.060 --> 00:30:36.360

Tom: He's famous for the documentary series Ways of Seeing, which I'm sure you've seen.

00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:37.700

Phil: Berger.

00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:41.360

Phil: So the male gaze is not a homosexual thing.

00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:48.080

Phil: It's about how literature and movies and stuff always see things through the male's view, right?

00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:49.380

Tom: In his view.

00:30:49.580 --> 00:30:50.500

Phil: In his view, right.

00:30:52.340 --> 00:31:15.580

Tom: We bring him up not due to his aesthetic theory, which we've discussed in a previous episode, nor for his documentary series, but because he voiced not one, but two characters in one of the early games in one of the biggest franchises in video games today.

00:31:16.300 --> 00:31:17.360

Tom: What game was that?

00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.100

Phil: This Berger guy did?

00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:20.180

Tom: Yes, he did.

00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:30.640

Phil: This Berger guy that came up with the theory of the male gaze voiced a character or a number of characters in an important franchise that is still relevant to this day.

00:31:30.860 --> 00:31:31.480

Tom: Correct.

00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:35.240

Phil: I can't ask any follow up questions.

00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:40.300

Phil: Okay, well, let's see.

00:31:41.320 --> 00:31:48.420

Phil: He must be old, otherwise he wouldn't be coming up with theory, so it must be an old game, but it's got to be new enough that it had voice acting.

00:31:49.380 --> 00:32:05.180

Phil: So I'm thinking, and it might just be because my micro view of Ken Williams' book, that it might be a Sierra Online type thing, but I, no, it's not Gex, it's not Gex the Gecko, because that was another guy.

00:32:05.800 --> 00:32:10.660

Phil: That would have been good because it's early, it won't be an N64 game.

00:32:10.700 --> 00:32:12.900

Phil: Well, it could be, N64 was quite a long time ago.

00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.760

Phil: It was probably British, otherwise, well, male, gays.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.940

Phil: Okay, all right, I'm going to commit to an answer, Banjo Kazooie.

00:32:22.820 --> 00:32:25.400

Tom: No, you are incorrect, unfortunately.

00:32:25.420 --> 00:32:25.900

Phil: Damn it.

00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:28.880

Phil: All right, well, I have to go over to the community.

00:32:29.340 --> 00:32:30.220

Tom: It will indeed.

00:32:30.600 --> 00:32:41.180

Phil: I've posted a question over there right now, and the answer is Geo Hot, but this is going to come out way after people answer that over there.

00:32:41.520 --> 00:32:44.320

Phil: You'll have to put it up after that one to be question 14.

00:32:44.340 --> 00:32:49.600

Phil: So yeah, go to the vgpress.com to their gaming discussion, which is where you see most of our community.

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:50.900

Phil: Yeah, all right.

00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:52.380

Phil: So back to games.

00:32:52.700 --> 00:32:53.780

Tom: Yes, back to games.

00:32:54.160 --> 00:33:01.660

Tom: I think we should move into similarly Haiti territory with I Dream of You and Ice Cream.

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:02.380

Phil: Right.

00:33:02.760 --> 00:33:09.660

Phil: Now, when I got an email from you with the topic I Dream of You and Ice Cream, I thought that this was going to be some sort of confession.

00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:13.680

Phil: But indeed, you had gifted me this game on Steam.

00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:15.760

Phil: And I'm afraid you're going to have to frame it for me.

00:33:15.780 --> 00:33:18.100

Phil: I don't know who made it or what the story is.

00:33:18.120 --> 00:33:28.460

Phil: But I Dream of You and Ice Cream, it has the same sort of visual presentation as Space Court, the game we talked about in the last episode.

00:33:29.360 --> 00:33:32.740

Tom: Was Space Court made in Game Maker Studio?

00:33:33.300 --> 00:33:34.240

Phil: I don't recall.

00:33:34.260 --> 00:33:35.480

Tom: I don't think it was.

00:33:35.540 --> 00:33:36.480

Phil: I don't think it was either.

00:33:36.740 --> 00:33:49.360

Phil: But basically, it's that how you remember the 286 or 386 Sierra Online King's Quest, Space Quest type games in terms of its visual presentation.

00:33:49.740 --> 00:33:51.080

Phil: It's made up of screens.

00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:58.500

Phil: So you walk through one screen and then it loads another screen and has a series of simple puzzles that you must complete.

00:33:58.900 --> 00:34:01.000

Phil: Now, I don't remember the backstory.

00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:11.960

Tom: Well, it has a series of simple puzzles that you may complete and one that seemingly does not give you any clue as to how it's meant to be solved.

00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:13.120

Phil: Yeah, we'll get to that.

00:34:13.140 --> 00:34:16.960

Phil: But do you have the name of the developer or anything like that?

00:34:17.520 --> 00:34:20.080

Phil: I can tell people it is available on Steam, first of all.

00:34:20.100 --> 00:34:41.380

Tom: Yes, it was developed and published by one, Amelios Manolides, who I believe is Greek, I assume is Greek anyway, and there are several instances of Greek writing in the game itself, although all the dialogue is in English, or the language of your choice has been translated into several different languages as well.

00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:45.380

Phil: The name of the game again is I Dream of You and Ice Cream.

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.760

Phil: Now, what's the premise behind the story?

00:34:47.780 --> 00:34:51.040

Phil: Because I thought it was pretty okay slash clever.

00:34:51.960 --> 00:35:03.200

Tom: Well, the premise of the story is that an extraterrestrial who looks very much like Woody from Toy Story or some sort of cowboy.

00:35:03.220 --> 00:35:04.220

Phil: No, definitely, yeah.

00:35:04.300 --> 00:35:27.740

Tom: Woody obviously has come to Earth and upon arrival at Earth, begins asking, first of all, enslaves everyone and then begins asking scientists, you don't know where they have come from or what they're doing there at the beginning of the game, a variety of questions about how humanity functions.

00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:43.220

Tom: And one of the most enjoyable parts of the game is, sorry, I said all the writing was in English, but all the dialogue, more to the point, is in logograms, I think the term is.

00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:59.520

Tom: So basically, if he is asking you what is the result of aging, there will be a picture of a person, then an arrow to the right and an old person and then a question mark after it.

00:36:01.140 --> 00:36:24.360

Tom: And that adds to the way the story is presented in a really enjoyable way, particularly given that you are communicating with an extraterrestrial being who does not understand how your species works and you do not understand how their species works either.

00:36:25.300 --> 00:36:35.560

Tom: This is an added layer of interestingness when you consider that the way that you are talking to the other characters is also exactly the same.

00:36:36.380 --> 00:36:48.160

Tom: This is interesting because, as it says in the description of The Game, it is about imperialism, the loss of identity and personal sacrifice.

00:36:48.700 --> 00:37:18.320

Tom: And while I've not seen anyone interpret the questions that are asked and the way in which he kills people given certain answers or not to those questions, because after he asks a question, the scene ends with either the scientists surviving and walking off or all of them being killed to be replaced by other scientists the next time a question is asked.

00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:34.420

Tom: And before I get to that actually, because that will arguably going to spoil the territory, I should probably add the puzzles in the game, the structure of you exploring the world is basically like a point and click adventure game.

00:37:34.820 --> 00:37:54.300

Tom: And there are a few environmental based puzzles where you are, for example, moving cages in a certain order so that you can move from one section of a room to the next by walking through the cages when they are in the right place.

00:37:55.060 --> 00:38:15.080

Tom: As an example, the majority of the puzzles are in the vein of older adventure games like Myst or puzzle games that are sort of in their newer iterations, not really conceived of as being adventure games and thought of in a different context.

00:38:15.100 --> 00:38:19.320

Tom: So as you are exploring, you will, for example, come across a machine.

00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:30.920

Tom: You will interact with that machine, and that machine will have its own self-contained puzzle that has its own rules totally unrelated to any other sort of puzzle in the rest of the game.

00:38:32.060 --> 00:38:44.140

Tom: And it's a very short game, so this may not be too surprising, but they managed to make all of these unique self-contained puzzles interesting and satisfying to solve.

00:38:44.860 --> 00:38:48.120

Tom: And each time you solve a puzzle, you get half a star.

00:38:48.620 --> 00:38:53.860

Tom: And once you have a whole star, you can basically use that as a hint if you're stuck on a puzzle.

00:38:54.420 --> 00:39:31.580

Tom: And what happens when you do that is the first few actions that you need to take in a puzzle to solve it, the game will do for you, which acts as a clue because if you haven't worked out from the basic information presented to you at the beginning of the puzzle, it is showing you the direction in which you should be going by solving a little bit of it because most of the puzzles structurally, once you've figured out how they actually work, you should be able to progressively go through the puzzle and complete it.

00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:34.240

Tom: So that's an interesting system.

00:39:34.260 --> 00:39:41.140

Tom: With the exception of one puzzle, which involves batteries, the hint did not help me there.

00:39:42.040 --> 00:40:06.380

Tom: And I had to look it up, and I am not ashamed to say that because even reading a description of how it is meant to work, and I was not the only person who, upon reading a description of how it was meant to work, it appears to not really follow any logic, including to people who solved it without help, apparently.

00:40:06.980 --> 00:40:12.060

Tom: So that was the one potential misstep in the puzzle design, but it is only one.

00:40:13.120 --> 00:40:28.300

Tom: I think if you approach it as either a puzzle or as a point-and-click adventure game, it is equally enjoyable because the puzzles are fun, logical except for one, and satisfying to solve.

00:40:30.200 --> 00:40:34.100

Tom: And a couple of them are reasonably challenging, that they are very satisfying to solve.

00:40:34.740 --> 00:40:41.880

Tom: And the narrative is absolutely incredible, which we will be getting to in more detail in a moment.

00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:50.160

Tom: And the last thing I would add before I get on to spoilers is, this is essentially Braid.

00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:52.660

Tom: Not in the sense that it is like Braid.

00:40:52.940 --> 00:40:53.660

Phil: Spoilers!

00:40:54.220 --> 00:40:58.520

Tom: Not in the sense that it is like Braid in terms of either its narrative or gameplay.

00:40:58.540 --> 00:40:59.840

Tom: Certainly Braid's gameplay.

00:40:59.860 --> 00:41:02.280

Phil: So it's about how he broke up with girlfriend, what he did?

00:41:03.140 --> 00:41:03.800

Tom: No, he didn't.

00:41:04.580 --> 00:41:05.380

Tom: I mean, he may have.

00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.000

Tom: It depends on your interpretation.

00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:11.100

Tom: But this is my point.

00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:12.220

Tom: He probably didn't.

00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:14.940

Phil: This is your point.

00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:17.260

Tom: That is my point entirely.

00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:24.140

Tom: That it's not a game about video game addiction and some fuckwit breaking up with their girlfriend.

00:41:24.540 --> 00:41:32.660

Tom: This, rather than presenting cool, serious, metaphorical content.

00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:33.940

Phil: Who are you calling a fuckwit?

00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:34.600

Phil: Joe Blow?

00:41:35.020 --> 00:41:35.560

Tom: Correct.

00:41:35.580 --> 00:41:37.040

Tom: I'm calling Joe Blow a fuckwit.

00:41:37.100 --> 00:41:37.680

Phil: John Blow.

00:41:37.700 --> 00:41:40.860

Tom: To present a totally banal and uninteresting story.

00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:46.360

Phil: John Blow makes the most pretentious games in video game history.

00:41:46.380 --> 00:41:47.300

Tom: This is what I'm saying.

00:41:47.380 --> 00:41:49.600

Phil: He is the Ernest Cline of...

00:41:50.500 --> 00:41:51.240

Tom: What Cline?

00:41:51.560 --> 00:41:53.860

Phil: Ernest Cline, the author of Ready Player.

00:41:55.020 --> 00:41:57.400

Phil: But, hey, he made The Witness, you know.

00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:00.880

Tom: And Braid as a game is brilliant.

00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.600

Tom: Everything else about it is not so good.

00:42:05.620 --> 00:42:07.420

Tom: But this is my point.

00:42:07.460 --> 00:42:25.080

Tom: Unlike Braid, which presents itself as tackling these heady themes, with in the background a simple slice of life story, which can be just as profound as heady themes, but it's not...

00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:39.440

Tom: What do we learn in Braid, or relate to in Braid, or go through the motions of a touching story in Braid about the ending of a relationship or playing a video game?

00:42:39.640 --> 00:43:00.880

Tom: The answer is fucking nothing, even less than the shitty metaphors it is using as if it is presenting the seriousness of the destruction of a relationship as how this can be so great as a nuclear bomb exploding or some bullshit like that.

00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:04.400

Tom: That isn't there in the fucking actual story at all.

00:43:04.420 --> 00:43:05.280

Phil: No, I'm with you, man.

00:43:05.300 --> 00:43:09.960

Phil: I mean, the story of Braid basically could be scrawled on a bathroom wall, you know.

00:43:10.600 --> 00:43:12.140

Tom: It would be a lot better if it was.

00:43:12.220 --> 00:43:23.960

Tom: That would be writing, I think, the story of a breakup on a bathroom wall would be a much more transgressive, edgy and profound thing to do.

00:43:24.060 --> 00:43:24.560

Phil: Thank you.

00:43:24.560 --> 00:43:26.900

Phil: You've just called me edgy and transgressive.

00:43:27.200 --> 00:43:30.280

Phil: I've lost my vanilla fog name.

00:43:30.620 --> 00:43:40.200

Phil: Hey, so this game, by the way, the guy had also made a game called Gleaner Heights, which seems to be a Harvest Moon ripoff.

00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:42.340

Tom: Or Stardew Valley clone.

00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:43.440

Phil: Yeah, 2018.

00:43:43.460 --> 00:43:46.060

Phil: I don't know if Stardew Valley was around back then.

00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:46.980

Tom: I'm pretty sure it was.

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.840

Phil: Yeah, it was, but he wouldn't have been able to develop it in time.

00:43:49.940 --> 00:43:53.400

Phil: I think it was probably concurrent with Stardew Valley.

00:43:53.720 --> 00:44:09.520

Tom: He also made a game called Iron Ball, which is, I believe, some sort of platforming game, which I thought looked okay, but this really sold it to me, and I have to play it at some point now.

00:44:09.520 --> 00:44:12.360

Tom: The Steam review by Yomigayl.

00:44:13.100 --> 00:44:17.920

Tom: Nice game, but I'm not fond of Devalis' session with homoerotic pros.

00:44:18.140 --> 00:44:20.280

Phil: Is that the guy who's going to die in two days?

00:44:21.560 --> 00:44:21.860

Tom: No.

00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:23.240

Phil: Okay, that's the other guy.

00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:24.200

Tom: Unfortunately not.

00:44:25.100 --> 00:44:30.420

Phil: There's a guy on Steam that writes a review for every game that basically says, Thank you for making this game.

00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:33.780

Phil: I'm about to die in two days, and this changed my life forever.

00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:38.940

Phil: And then if you just look at his username and go look at all his reviews, it's the exact same review on every game.

00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:41.060

Phil: He's obviously trying to scam for something.

00:44:42.160 --> 00:44:43.640

Tom: Or he's going out with a bang.

00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:47.900

Phil: The name of the game is I Dream of You and Ice Cream on Steam.

00:44:48.720 --> 00:44:49.500

Phil: Well, it's on Steam.

00:44:49.520 --> 00:44:50.540

Phil: That's not the name of the game.

00:44:50.560 --> 00:44:59.600

Phil: But when you sent it to me, I thought, and this is a callback, I didn't look at who had made it.

00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:04.580

Phil: I thought this must be Tim Keenan's new game that you've come across.

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:08.780

Phil: And Tim Keenan, you interviewed in Episode 48.

00:45:10.520 --> 00:45:12.180

Phil: What games was he known for?

00:45:14.200 --> 00:45:19.200

Tom: A virus named Tom and Duskers.

00:45:19.220 --> 00:45:21.980

Tom: You still see the odd reference to Duskers, impressively.

00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:31.220

Phil: And I don't know if he's still active or not, but if you go back and listen to Episode 48, it's absolutely epic and wonderful to listen to.

00:45:32.220 --> 00:45:39.980

Tom: While we're on the topic of interviews, I mentioned in a previous episode my disdain for popular podcasts.

00:45:40.120 --> 00:45:45.320

Tom: And there's another category of podcasts that I have to bring up that are just totally insufferable.

00:45:46.040 --> 00:45:53.540

Tom: And they are podcasts where if they were not interviewing guests, they would be an amusing show.

00:45:53.560 --> 00:45:59.340

Tom: An example of this is Bobby Lee from Mad TV's podcast.

00:45:59.380 --> 00:46:06.880

Tom: He is obviously, and the people he has on as co-hosts, obviously very entertaining media figures.

00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:09.520

Tom: But they are interviewing people.

00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:11.880

Tom: At least they claim to be interviewing people.

00:46:12.100 --> 00:46:27.400

Tom: But of course the interviews consist of merely a stream of consciousness show by Bobby Lee and his co-hosts who riff on one another with the guest standing there shell shocked by what is going on.

00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:32.060

Phil: What's the name of the podcast?

00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:33.860

Tom: Tiger Belly, I think.

00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:34.640

Phil: Tiger Belly?

00:46:35.080 --> 00:46:35.440

Tom: Yes.

00:46:35.700 --> 00:46:37.380

Phil: Sounds like what I had for dinner last night.

00:46:38.380 --> 00:46:39.920

Phil: But back to this game.

00:46:40.540 --> 00:46:44.400

Phil: Do you pick up what I'm putting down there, re Tim Keenan?

00:46:46.040 --> 00:46:51.700

Tom: It could be, just because it is an indie game with a low budget.

00:46:52.060 --> 00:46:53.280

Phil: And some puzzle elements.

00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.920

Tom: Yeah, and some puzzle elements.

00:46:54.940 --> 00:46:58.120

Tom: But I mean, that's a pretty standard fare for indie games.

00:46:59.260 --> 00:47:00.440

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:47:01.020 --> 00:47:01.640

Phil: I guess.

00:47:01.660 --> 00:47:05.360

Phil: But this one is distinctive in the graphical style and all the rest of it.

00:47:05.560 --> 00:47:07.480

Phil: Low budget, I guess, is what you're talking about.

00:47:07.660 --> 00:47:07.980

Tom: Yep.

00:47:08.980 --> 00:47:24.940

Tom: And I think the thing is that like a Tim Keenan game, regardless of the budget involved or whatever medium it's using, this is, for example, using Game Maker Studio, of which there are a million games that all look identical.

00:47:25.080 --> 00:47:29.020

Tom: And if you look at this, you can see it is made in Game Maker Studio.

00:47:29.340 --> 00:47:36.860

Tom: But nevertheless, a real handmade feel and a distinctive aesthetic immediately comes across.

00:47:37.520 --> 00:47:46.840

Tom: And there's real knowledge and skill in the game, knowing exactly where to put all the effort into making certain things look good.

00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:51.380

Phil: So on to the story, you wanted to talk about the themes of this thing?

00:47:52.060 --> 00:47:52.400

Tom: Yes.

00:47:52.560 --> 00:48:02.880

Tom: Well, it is billed, as I said, as a game about imperialism, personal sacrifice and the loss of identity.

00:48:03.020 --> 00:48:07.660

Phil: We've got a thousand things to talk about, but do you think imperialism is a relevant topic these days?

00:48:09.020 --> 00:48:09.640

Tom: Absolutely.

00:48:10.140 --> 00:48:11.080

Phil: Vis-a-vis China?

00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:25.100

Tom: Well, I think China, the most interesting thing about Chinese imperialism, is the way in which it is deliberately going against the Western modes of imperialism.

00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:26.200

Phil: All right.

00:48:26.220 --> 00:48:28.420

Phil: We'll save that for another topic, because I disagree.

00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:31.980

Phil: So get into the story of...

00:48:32.260 --> 00:48:38.480

Phil: and this is going to touch on some spoilers, but we've got to say the story is not necessarily the hook, or is it?

00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:55.380

Tom: Well, the story is the hook, and you would need to use examples of particular countries, because certainly, internally, in the areas that China considers to be part of its land, it is absolutely on the Western model.

00:48:55.880 --> 00:49:06.540

Tom: But the way in which they use debt is legally significantly different to the way in which Western countries use debt.

00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:07.700

Phil: Not getting into it.

00:49:08.680 --> 00:49:10.360

Phil: Back to I Dream of You and Ice Cream.

00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:11.440

Tom: No, you brought that up.

00:49:11.620 --> 00:49:12.280

Phil: We're not bringing it...

00:49:12.300 --> 00:49:13.140

Phil: We're not going into it.

00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:15.160

Phil: I could talk an hour on this topic.

00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:16.960

Phil: I don't necessarily disagree.

00:49:19.340 --> 00:49:19.920

Tom: I'm waiting.

00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:20.900

Phil: We've got other beef.

00:49:22.220 --> 00:49:23.620

Tom: Give me your pithy response.

00:49:23.640 --> 00:49:24.920

Phil: It's a video game podcast.

00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:26.120

Tom: Give it.

00:49:26.840 --> 00:49:28.720

Tom: This game is about imperialism.

00:49:28.780 --> 00:49:29.840

Tom: It's clearly relevant.

00:49:30.220 --> 00:49:31.080

Phil: Okay, it's not.

00:49:32.080 --> 00:49:38.680

Phil: I would say that more of the cultural imperialism and the economic imperialism is what you're seeing coming out of China.

00:49:38.700 --> 00:49:43.220

Phil: Not the traditional Western one, which is where we go into a country and we actually occupy it.

00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:48.720

Phil: They're not doing it by occupation in a physical sense or a militaristic sense.

00:49:49.520 --> 00:49:58.900

Phil: More so, they're doing it through cultural influence, like getting us all to learn how to speak Chinese 15 years ago in Australia, buying up our land and all the rest of it.

00:49:59.300 --> 00:50:00.520

Phil: Haven't got anything against it.

00:50:00.680 --> 00:50:01.980

Phil: China can buy whatever they want.

00:50:03.120 --> 00:50:06.880

Tom: That part of it is absolutely the same as Western imperialism.

00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:08.060

Phil: Okay, all right, fair enough.

00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:11.160

Tom: That aspect of soft power, definitely the same.

00:50:11.180 --> 00:50:11.400

Phil: Yep.

00:50:12.120 --> 00:50:12.340

Phil: Yep.

00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:17.740

Tom: So, speaking of soft power and imperialism...

00:50:18.060 --> 00:50:21.820

Phil: Soft power, is that what you call your unit?

00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:24.940

Phil: Okay, I pledge...

00:50:25.020 --> 00:50:26.940

Tom: My unit is max power, actually.

00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:32.780

Phil: I pledged years ago that we weren't going to do dick jokes in this podcast, so I may have to censor that and edit that out.

00:50:34.740 --> 00:50:35.920

Phil: But soft power, come on.

00:50:37.620 --> 00:50:40.080

Tom: Yep, so...

00:50:40.100 --> 00:50:43.280

Tom: So, as I said, Woody is asking questions.

00:50:43.300 --> 00:50:43.960

Tom: Woody.

00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:45.960

Tom: Woody is asking questions.

00:50:48.380 --> 00:50:49.000

Tom: Yes, he is.

00:50:50.680 --> 00:50:56.020

Tom: About how humans as a society function.

00:50:56.980 --> 00:51:03.300

Tom: And some of them are ambiguous questions, others are ambiguous questions.

00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:10.580

Tom: And we can't get around the fact that Woody looks very much like a cowboy.

00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:26.540

Tom: And in certainly, culturally, cowboys are obviously a symbol of the imperialism in America in the settling of the West and manifest destiny, and so on and so forth.

00:51:26.560 --> 00:51:28.860

Phil: See, as an American, I see them as a symbol of freedom.

00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:32.040

Phil: And, you know, individuality.

00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:37.820

Tom: Yes, they were individually giving themselves freedom.

00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:42.980

Tom: They were, just at the expense of other people's freedom.

00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:45.540

Tom: So it's not necessarily untrue.

00:51:45.560 --> 00:51:48.940

Phil: The freedom to exploit indigenous peoples and rob them of their lands.

00:51:50.060 --> 00:51:50.600

Tom: Exactly.

00:51:50.620 --> 00:51:52.320

Phil: They weren't doing anything with them anyway.

00:51:52.940 --> 00:51:53.220

Tom: Yep.

00:51:53.540 --> 00:51:54.260

Phil: They're only growing.

00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:57.220

Tom: That's the Ayn Rand argument.

00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:08.640

Tom: Private property is a steadfast law, until I want your property, in which case I will invent a reason as to why you no longer have a right to that property.

00:52:08.640 --> 00:52:09.160

Phil: That's right.

00:52:09.680 --> 00:52:11.780

Phil: I'm going to let you go uninterrupted now.

00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:12.740

Phil: Yes.

00:52:13.200 --> 00:52:19.760

Tom: As you can tell, unlike all of these fucking people in the games media, we are experts on this topic.

00:52:20.180 --> 00:52:25.440

Tom: So I can actually comment on what the Imperius themes might be in this game, if we ever get to it, that is.

00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:49.740

Tom: In the very little commentary I've seen on the game, the fact that it is billed as being about imperialism is usually ignored by the commentary on what the meaning of the questions is and why does he kill people for answering in certain ways and not kill them for answering in certain ways.

00:52:50.140 --> 00:53:11.200

Tom: And if you're considering this in terms of imperialism, you can see the questions going in the direction of certain cultural touchstones that have been a part of imperialist strategy and culture.

00:53:11.520 --> 00:53:27.480

Tom: So for example, it begins with simple questions about the basic functioning things, as I said, but it soon then begins asking questions like, you'll get a logogram of a black person and a white person, and there will be a question mark.

00:53:27.980 --> 00:53:33.280

Tom: So it will then be asking why is there a difference here, or is there a difference here for that matter.

00:53:34.220 --> 00:53:44.160

Tom: The scientists will then answer that the two different faces equals the same thing, at which point they are all killed.

00:53:44.600 --> 00:54:01.940

Tom: Well, obviously, once Christianity started being a little less cruel among elites as they're called today, race obviously became a massively important part of imperialism.

00:54:02.340 --> 00:54:19.380

Tom: And pretty much all the questions where the theme can very obviously be drawn to a culture of imperialism and the answer does not support the culture of imperialism, that is when people are killed.

00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:35.680

Tom: And as you're also going along, the questions also sort of begin to reveal potential motivations for this that may go against the justifications for it that Woody is indoctrinating the scientists with.

00:54:35.780 --> 00:54:43.640

Tom: And the game ends very interestingly with the final question being essentially, what is the point of money?

00:54:44.020 --> 00:54:52.100

Tom: And with the way that the game ends, we do not get to see what his answer to that would have been, which is a...

00:54:52.480 --> 00:55:02.420

Tom: I think at first I was a bit annoyed by that, but I think on reflection, it is an interesting way to end the game ultimately.

00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:04.200

Phil: Yeah, I think it is a good way to end the game.

00:55:04.220 --> 00:55:07.740

Phil: Just, you know, what's the meaning of life 42?

00:55:08.080 --> 00:55:12.060

Phil: You know, I mean, I think it's good to leave it on an open...

00:55:12.080 --> 00:55:19.480

Phil: rather than provide the audience an answer, it's better to give them something to keep them thinking about it and coming back to it, you know.

00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:21.420

Phil: I think that's the way it should be.

00:55:23.080 --> 00:55:57.740

Tom: Indeed, and it's quite bizarre to me that most of the commentary I saw in the game totally ignored that questions, for example, about racism, then killing everyone when they answer that race may not be real is a pretty blatant and obvious comment on imperialism, given that these questions are being given to a population by the person who has enslaved them.

00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:35.400

Tom: But most of the commentary on questions like that, for example, was that the people were answering in too simplistic a manner, and that if you actually consider something like race, for example, well, it's more complicated than you being able to answer that either races are the same or race doesn't exist and this sort of thing, which appears to me to be not necessarily misreading of what the point was, because what the point was, who knows, but certainly a misreading of the narrative that is introduced with an explicit statement.

00:56:35.780 --> 00:56:45.880

Tom: And it's also a misreading of the storytelling because the question itself is equally simplistic to the answer.

00:56:47.140 --> 00:56:52.760

Phil: Yes, it's an interesting topic and interesting game.

00:56:53.420 --> 00:56:55.460

Phil: So it delivers on two fronts.

00:56:55.600 --> 00:56:59.140

Phil: It's stimulating to the mind and also provides some fun challenges.

00:56:59.520 --> 00:57:10.380

Phil: I think the puzzles weren't overly easy, but they weren't overly difficult other than that one obtuse one, which is really unfortunate because that could be a killer for a lot of people.

00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:12.480

Phil: But the game's been out since 2020.

00:57:12.500 --> 00:57:13.340

Phil: It's been around.

00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:29.620

Phil: So you think that they would have, he would have patched around that in terms of seeing where people get in terms of the trophies, you know, but I would just think so many people stop at that one puzzle and just never get back into the game, which is really unfortunate.

00:57:29.640 --> 00:57:33.060

Phil: So are you going to roll out your die of destiny for this one?

00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:34.360

Tom: I am indeed.

00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:35.640

Phil: Okay, here it comes, folks.

00:57:38.140 --> 00:57:39.200

Phil: Clickety clack.

00:57:39.500 --> 00:57:41.780

Phil: I'm going to guess that's a four.

00:57:42.340 --> 00:57:56.420

Tom: No, unfortunately, I Dream of Ice Cream, which, as I said, is the game braid wanted to be on so many levels and would potentially be my Game of the Year of 2020.

00:57:57.120 --> 00:57:59.780

Tom: Unfortunately, receives a one out of ten.

00:58:00.600 --> 00:58:00.940

Phil: Yep.

00:58:01.140 --> 00:58:02.640

Phil: Well, die can't lie.

00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:04.800

Phil: Die can't lie.

00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:11.880

Phil: We'll move on to two very hot games, Super Hot and Hotshot Racing.

00:58:15.240 --> 00:58:16.640

Tom: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:58:16.660 --> 00:58:18.120

Tom: The one last thing I would add...

00:58:20.420 --> 00:58:21.420

Tom: No, no, no, no.

00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:23.000

Tom: This comes after the die roll.

00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:37.040

Tom: Because I think it's actually the most interesting statement on imperialism, given the strategy of most anti-racists today.

00:58:37.060 --> 00:58:44.060

Phil: Just so you know, when I do get my soundboard, I'm going to have a stinger for the most imperialist statement of this game.

00:58:44.300 --> 00:58:48.200

Phil: So every time you bring up the most imperialist statement of any game, I'm going to push this button.

00:58:52.640 --> 00:58:58.340

Tom: No, you need to get the sound of Woody screaming, his scream that kills people, and use that.

00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:01.640

Phil: Okay, well, I'll save that away.

00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:08.720

Phil: If people want to contribute to my soundboard fund, just leave a comment at gameunder.net on one of our comments.

00:59:10.240 --> 00:59:11.760

Tom: Don't add to our Patreon as well.

00:59:11.780 --> 00:59:12.520

Tom: Subscribe, I mean.

00:59:12.540 --> 00:59:14.160

Phil: Yeah, and hit that like button.

00:59:14.260 --> 00:59:15.140

Phil: Mash that like button.

00:59:18.460 --> 00:59:19.560

Tom: So, most importantly...

00:59:19.580 --> 00:59:21.100

Phil: Yeah, post Roll Die comment, yes.

00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:34.240

Tom: Yeah, post Roll Die comment, because this just clicked in my head, because again, it's a game about imperialism, the loss of identity and personal sacrifice.

00:59:34.260 --> 01:00:04.700

Tom: Now, the protagonist of the game is building a non-human, a-cultural robot, which is the only way that anyone has come up with killing Woody because he can kill anyone anywhere with his screeches, apparently, which may also be commentary on a certain meme about screeching political activists as well, but probably not.

01:00:04.940 --> 01:00:48.680

Tom: But what is interesting about that is, again, if we take the racism question as an example, and you consider that he is indoctrinating representatives from the entirety of the world who are all working together in the fight against the imperialist vision of Woody, the enslaver of mankind, instead of fighting that with a form of nativism, nativist identity politics, it is being fought with a form of universalist, anti-nativist, non-identity politics.

01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:52.080

Phil: That's I Dream of You, an ice cream available on Steam.

01:00:52.540 --> 01:01:02.040

Phil: If I didn't have a job and we did a daily podcast, I'd ask you why do you think the creator picked Woody and not Buzz light year?

01:01:02.060 --> 01:01:05.920

Phil: Because I actually think there's an essay in that, but we're not going to discuss it.

01:01:05.980 --> 01:01:15.200

Tom: Well, I told you, as I said, Buzz light year may be very much a symbol of American nationalism.

01:01:15.460 --> 01:01:16.160

Tom: Absolutely.

01:01:16.180 --> 01:01:17.180

Phil: No, hope and optimism.

01:01:18.540 --> 01:01:21.600

Tom: No, nationalism, nationalism, nationalism.

01:01:21.620 --> 01:01:25.380

Tom: They're fighting the Soviets in their space program.

01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:27.600

Phil: No, they're defending themselves against the Sputniks.

01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:41.900

Tom: For the free world maybe, but as Americans, space is very much a nationalist project by the very fact that it is an internationalist program.

01:01:43.140 --> 01:01:45.560

Tom: But I think the reason is obvious.

01:01:45.580 --> 01:01:49.780

Tom: Cowboys are the American symbol of imperialism.

01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:51.720

Phil: Well, they're ideals of freedom.

01:01:52.380 --> 01:01:54.880

Phil: So, okay, so on to the next game.

01:01:55.900 --> 01:01:59.560

Phil: I've just got quick impressions of Super Hot.

01:01:59.580 --> 01:02:03.140

Phil: Super Hot is, I think I said in the last episode, a subversive game.

01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:05.860

Phil: Would you agree with that?

01:02:07.540 --> 01:02:08.320

Tom: Yes and no.

01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:09.720

Phil: Well, I again...

01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:12.580

Tom: It's certainly got the aesthetics of subversion.

01:02:12.680 --> 01:02:21.060

Phil: I think it subverts gameplay because people are very familiar with first-person shooters, and it's done something to upend the first-person shooter category.

01:02:21.600 --> 01:02:23.940

Tom: Yeah, gameplay, absolutely, yes, I would agree.

01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:25.000

Phil: And that's what I'm talking about.

01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:29.720

Phil: The rest of it's just, you know, icing on the cake or window dressing.

01:02:29.740 --> 01:02:39.520

Phil: But I contend, and I continue to contend, that Super Hot is a puzzle game, not a first-person shooter.

01:02:40.940 --> 01:02:47.740

Tom: I would say it's both, and I would also add that all the best first-person shooters are also puzzle games.

01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:50.000

Phil: Yeah, I agree with that.

01:02:50.020 --> 01:02:51.340

Phil: They give you tools.

01:02:52.060 --> 01:02:53.740

Phil: They give you tools, and I was...

01:02:54.580 --> 01:03:01.900

Phil: I really begrudge the fact that Call of Duty is off of my playlist because of the massive amount of downloading that the game requires.

01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:04.140

Phil: I really enjoy first-person shooters.

01:03:04.200 --> 01:03:08.420

Phil: I really enjoy going back to Call of Duty every year when a new campaign comes out.

01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:14.840

Phil: And I do feel ripped off that that's been taken away from me because there's not a lot of other first-person shooters.

01:03:14.860 --> 01:03:16.540

Phil: Sure, we got Sirius Sam 4.

01:03:16.560 --> 01:03:18.980

Phil: It's on our wish list and things like that.

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:23.740

Phil: But, you know, Call of Duty is like the annual installment of a first-person shooter.

01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:29.260

Phil: And it's shocking to me that as a genre, that has completely died off.

01:03:29.660 --> 01:03:31.300

Phil: And I don't get that.

01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:37.860

Phil: I don't know if that's because of the rise of these other, you know, service games and things like that.

01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:42.100

Tom: But I don't think first-person shooters in a genre have died off at all.

01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:49.760

Tom: If anything, they're currently going through a resurgence after a downward trend that was previously there.

01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:51.980

Phil: I'm just talking about a profusion of options.

01:03:52.400 --> 01:03:58.840

Phil: Like, you used to be able to go into a store and, you know, an FPS would come out at least once a month, and now you don't see that.

01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:09.920

Tom: That is true, but that's because you don't need to, because you have the endless tap of Fortnite, PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds.

01:04:09.940 --> 01:04:10.940

Phil: That's the point, yeah.

01:04:11.040 --> 01:04:14.900

Phil: And, you know, plus you can't go into a store anymore.

01:04:15.940 --> 01:04:19.800

Phil: But anyway, I finished Super Hot, and the game just got better and better and better.

01:04:21.200 --> 01:04:27.480

Phil: I was wondering, you know, you were disappointed with the second installment of the game in which they had procedurally generated levels.

01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:39.620

Phil: I'm betting the way those developers think is that some of the levels in the original were procedurally generated, and then press pause, you know, so that, you know.

01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:45.660

Phil: But then they thought, oh, what if we just procedurally generate forever and ever, and we're going to give the players more and more?

01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:49.300

Phil: I see where that thought would have come from.

01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:50.520

Phil: But it was misguided.

01:04:52.520 --> 01:04:55.600

Phil: And the game story didn't go where I thought it was going to go.

01:04:55.620 --> 01:05:01.320

Phil: I don't know if you're familiar with the TV show Black Mirror by Charlie Booker.

01:05:02.460 --> 01:05:04.620

Tom: I am familiar with it, but I have never watched it.

01:05:04.640 --> 01:05:06.120

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's worth watching.

01:05:07.420 --> 01:05:08.560

Phil: Certainly elements of it.

01:05:09.640 --> 01:05:13.320

Phil: This and Super Hot go hand in glove.

01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:18.660

Phil: And I would, I think they're just as good as each other.

01:05:18.680 --> 01:05:25.700

Phil: Though I'd give the edge probably the Super Hot, though I really do like Black Mirror, even though it's a one trick pony.

01:05:26.740 --> 01:05:44.040

Phil: But ultimately, the thing that made me, the biggest impact that this had on me was that, you know what, I need to be, when a game comes out and everyone says it's amazing, and people gift me the game, as they did in this case, but I missed it because I wasn't on Steam for like a year.

01:05:46.080 --> 01:05:51.580

Phil: I need to pay attention, and I need to go out and buy it for $60 or $70, or whatever it is, because...

01:05:51.620 --> 01:05:54.240

Tom: Or accept it when it's been Steam gifted to you.

01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.000

Phil: Yes, exactly.

01:05:56.600 --> 01:05:58.400

Phil: And then that Steam gift expires.

01:05:59.600 --> 01:06:03.520

Phil: Because this was a really important and good game.

01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:11.620

Phil: And, you know, there's games like Disco Elysion, where I feel like I should have bought it.

01:06:11.640 --> 01:06:16.140

Phil: It's come out now, it's got a re-release now.

01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:22.360

Phil: And the art style of it is completely different than what I thought it had been, as it had been relayed to me through podcasts.

01:06:23.140 --> 01:06:25.520

Phil: And it's a rogue-like, so I don't think I'll ever play it.

01:06:25.520 --> 01:06:38.380

Phil: But I'm just thinking, like, you know, when the consensus is out there that this is a smart, clever game you should be playing, I need to go out and just buy it and try it, because Super Hot exceeded all of my expectations.

01:06:40.560 --> 01:06:43.520

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, it was a revelation to me.

01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:45.320

Phil: And it was thoroughly enjoyable.

01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:46.760

Phil: I think I'll go back and play it.

01:06:48.200 --> 01:06:50.000

Phil: And certainly the VR version.

01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:52.400

Phil: You have not yet got the VR version, right?

01:06:53.220 --> 01:06:56.040

Tom: I have got and played the VR version.

01:06:56.060 --> 01:06:56.700

Tom: Wow!

01:06:57.100 --> 01:06:59.640

Phil: Okay, this is where you play my stinger off the soundboard.

01:07:01.520 --> 01:07:02.120

Phil: Wow!

01:07:02.520 --> 01:07:03.000

Phil: Have you?

01:07:03.540 --> 01:07:04.180

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:07:04.200 --> 01:07:04.600

Phil: All right.

01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:06.400

Phil: Well, do you want to just give me a...

01:07:06.720 --> 01:07:07.380

Phil: Is it good?

01:07:08.140 --> 01:07:11.180

Tom: It is as good as the non-VR version.

01:07:12.060 --> 01:07:12.860

Phil: The original?

01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:14.020

Tom: Correct.

01:07:14.040 --> 01:07:14.660

Phil: So no better?

01:07:15.720 --> 01:07:22.760

Tom: No, it is better in some ways, but inferior in some ways as well, due to the nature of the medium.

01:07:22.780 --> 01:07:24.860

Phil: I would imagine that it's less...

01:07:24.860 --> 01:07:28.620

Phil: One thing I was concerned about was less precision in terms of the aiming and shooting.

01:07:29.180 --> 01:07:31.620

Tom: The aiming and shooting is as precise.

01:07:31.640 --> 01:07:33.720

Tom: The throwing of items is not as precise.

01:07:34.620 --> 01:07:39.020

Tom: And that is not the fault of the medium.

01:07:39.040 --> 01:07:41.240

Tom: That is the fault of the developer.

01:07:41.260 --> 01:07:44.120

Tom: For instance, in Dance Central...

01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:47.560

Tom: And I do have to give credit.

01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:56.660

Tom: I complained that maybe the sales on the Oculus Store were not that great, and they aren't great compared to Steam sales.

01:07:57.060 --> 01:08:00.520

Tom: I said that they do not have a refund policy.

01:08:00.540 --> 01:08:00.860

Tom: They do.

01:08:01.180 --> 01:08:07.260

Tom: But what I find most impressive about the story is Dance Central is the first Quest 2 game I've actually purchased.

01:08:07.680 --> 01:08:12.180

Tom: And after purchasing it, I did not need to re-download it.

01:08:12.680 --> 01:08:20.940

Tom: I can launch the official version of the game using the pirated version of the game, apparently.

01:08:20.960 --> 01:08:26.900

Tom: So I'm playing the official version using the files of the pirated version that I downloaded.

01:08:26.940 --> 01:08:30.420

Tom: That is top level service.

01:08:30.440 --> 01:08:32.840

Phil: Well, what would you expect from Fbook?

01:08:33.700 --> 01:08:35.000

Phil: So now Mark Zuckerberg...

01:08:35.020 --> 01:08:36.800

Tom: I thought Fbook was meant to be crap.

01:08:36.820 --> 01:08:37.580

Tom: That's brilliant.

01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:47.200

Phil: Now Mark Zuckerberg knows your real name and that the only game that you've bought on his little wonder thing is Dance Central.

01:08:47.220 --> 01:08:47.880

Tom: Dance Central.

01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:51.560

Tom: So I'm expecting a lot of ads for dancing.

01:08:52.640 --> 01:08:53.680

Phil: That's a slow clap.

01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:55.740

Phil: In case it didn't translate.

01:08:57.280 --> 01:09:08.380

Tom: But I bring that up because in Dance Central, and this is not even a dancing mechanic, which is obviously the important part of the game, the menu is your mobile phone.

01:09:08.860 --> 01:09:19.940

Tom: And you can not only use your mobile phone for navigation, navigating to different places and texting friends and so forth, you can also throw it in the club environment.

01:09:20.320 --> 01:09:23.880

Tom: And the accuracy of the tracking on that is amazing.

01:09:25.040 --> 01:09:28.720

Tom: It is as if you are throwing a real phone.

01:09:29.740 --> 01:09:32.980

Tom: So there is really no excuse for games like Super Hot.

01:09:33.460 --> 01:09:34.800

Phil: I forgot you had a point, yeah.

01:09:35.480 --> 01:09:38.420

Phil: The throwing in the regular Super Hot is not good either though.

01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:40.260

Tom: That is true.

01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:42.520

Phil: Okay, so that's it for Super Hot.

01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:48.120

Tom: Look forward to my impressions of Super Hot VR with Gargan.

01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:49.560

Phil: Oh yeah, that's right.

01:09:49.740 --> 01:09:53.320

Phil: You're saving it for your other host.

01:09:53.900 --> 01:09:55.580

Tom: Well, he has actually played it, so...

01:09:55.620 --> 01:09:57.580

Phil: Yeah, well, maybe I'll play it this weekend.

01:09:57.640 --> 01:09:58.740

Phil: Then you'll have no excuse.

01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:01.460

Tom: How will you do that?

01:10:01.900 --> 01:10:04.840

Phil: I buy an Oculus Quest 2 on Easter.

01:10:04.860 --> 01:10:06.140

Phil: Just to prove a point.

01:10:06.260 --> 01:10:07.440

Phil: Just to make the point.

01:10:07.460 --> 01:10:10.020

Phil: And cock block Gargan.

01:10:15.260 --> 01:10:16.720

Tom: Are you gonna give Super Hot a score?

01:10:16.740 --> 01:10:18.340

Phil: Yeah, I definitely give it a 9.

01:10:19.340 --> 01:10:20.120

Phil: Definitely a 9.

01:10:20.220 --> 01:10:21.960

Tom: I think that is fair.

01:10:22.020 --> 01:10:26.560

Tom: I will reserve my dice for Gargan.

01:10:27.700 --> 01:10:30.240

Tom: Because I believe I may have some further things to say.

01:10:30.260 --> 01:10:30.780

Tom: I'm not with him.

01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:31.220

Phil: Very good.

01:10:33.240 --> 01:10:42.560

Tom: Before we get on to Hot Shots Racing, I have had enough time to remember the content of your review of Ken Williams' autobiography.

01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:43.960

Phil: Oh, at gameunder.net.

01:10:44.380 --> 01:10:47.580

Phil: I did a micro review of Ready Player 2.

01:10:48.920 --> 01:10:50.340

Phil: Did you have anything to say about that?

01:10:51.080 --> 01:10:52.980

Tom: Well, I commented on that on the website.

01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:53.400

Phil: You did.

01:10:53.700 --> 01:10:55.280

Phil: And that was a true story, by the way.

01:10:56.820 --> 01:10:57.560

Tom: I'm sure it was.

01:10:57.600 --> 01:10:59.320

Tom: And you didn't answer my question, though.

01:10:59.480 --> 01:11:00.720

Tom: My comment was a question.

01:11:00.740 --> 01:11:01.000

Phil: Yeah.

01:11:01.020 --> 01:11:03.860

Phil: Well, I don't know who Begat Jean.

01:11:04.400 --> 01:11:06.780

Tom: Well, now I'm doubting whether it was a true story.

01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:08.840

Phil: Well, how am I supposed to know who Begat people?

01:11:08.860 --> 01:11:10.860

Tom: I would assume she would introduce herself.

01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:11.820

Phil: She was 80 years old.

01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:13.540

Phil: She's talking about Bible stuff.

01:11:13.580 --> 01:11:18.020

Tom: As so-and-so, who Begat so-and-so, who Begat me, Jean.

01:11:18.040 --> 01:11:20.360

Phil: No, that's not how it goes down, man.

01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:26.140

Phil: Maybe in your JRPG, in your life, in your mind, but not in real life, dude.

01:11:26.160 --> 01:11:27.320

Phil: That's not how people talk.

01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:35.340

Phil: Okay, so then I did a blog entry about Ken Williams' book about Sierra Online.

01:11:37.240 --> 01:11:38.860

Phil: It was a proper review.

01:11:38.900 --> 01:11:40.120

Phil: It's a micro review.

01:11:40.140 --> 01:11:40.680

Phil: It's just a blog.

01:11:41.180 --> 01:11:41.960

Phil: Not a review.

01:11:41.980 --> 01:11:43.280

Phil: I was at work.

01:11:43.280 --> 01:11:45.400

Phil: My computer at home wasn't accessible.

01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:48.120

Phil: I just tapped out a review.

01:11:48.140 --> 01:11:49.440

Phil: A micro review.

01:11:49.460 --> 01:11:50.400

Phil: It's a blog entry.

01:11:50.700 --> 01:11:52.400

Tom: You were tapping one out at work.

01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:54.040

Phil: Indeed.

01:11:55.320 --> 01:11:58.200

Tom: Did you do it at your own desk or someone else's?

01:11:58.220 --> 01:12:03.780

Phil: My point was that Ken Williams is someone who has never had anyone ever say no to him.

01:12:04.200 --> 01:12:10.920

Phil: And that's why he interspersed the good stuff with this bunch of crap, these chapters that he put in his book that I didn't put in the room.

01:12:11.360 --> 01:12:20.760

Phil: The first one he intersperses into his book talks about how we've got to rank people as A+, A, B, C, D and Fs.

01:12:21.080 --> 01:12:24.160

Phil: And he goes into detail about how these people are Fs because of this.

01:12:25.020 --> 01:12:26.400

Phil: Doesn't get into racial stuff.

01:12:26.480 --> 01:12:28.580

Phil: You know, it's not bad like that.

01:12:29.220 --> 01:12:34.960

Phil: But in today's woke world, even if you think it, that's not the opening chapter.

01:12:34.980 --> 01:12:40.100

Phil: Like you don't say, oh, well, hey, listener, I know you want to talk about me and Roberta Williams.

01:12:40.120 --> 01:12:43.560

Phil: We made such great games as Space Quest and Leisure Suit Larry.

01:12:44.440 --> 01:12:46.660

Phil: Now, let me tell you how I rank people, okay?

01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:55.060

Phil: There are A through F, and the Fs are losers, and they deserve to be losers, and they'll never win in life because they're lazy.

01:12:56.980 --> 01:13:00.640

Phil: Then he goes back to talking about Leisure Suit Larry and this, that and the other.

01:13:00.860 --> 01:13:05.760

Phil: Then he goes, oh, I'm going to intersperse another off-topic non sequitur chapter.

01:13:06.940 --> 01:13:16.420

Phil: Early reviewers of this book told me that perhaps I should put all this at the end of the book, but I'm not going to do that because I need to tell you how code should be arranged.

01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:18.960

Tom: Did he actually say early reviewers?

01:13:18.980 --> 01:13:21.340

Phil: Yes, he said at the start of it.

01:13:21.540 --> 01:13:35.960

Phil: He said, now, I've been told by advanced readers of this book that interspercing these chapters with this non sequitur crap where it has absolute relevance to nothing I've been talking about should be put towards the back of the book.

01:13:36.460 --> 01:13:40.300

Phil: But I'm Ken Williams and this is my book and I'm self publishing.

01:13:40.340 --> 01:13:41.620

Phil: So grin and bury.

01:13:42.700 --> 01:13:45.680

Tom: Well, now I have a third problem with your review, but continue.

01:13:45.700 --> 01:13:46.700

Phil: Okay, the third problem.

01:13:46.840 --> 01:13:51.520

Phil: Well, the third problem with the review is that I didn't say that in the review because I had to tap it out.

01:13:51.540 --> 01:13:52.640

Phil: It's just a blog entry.

01:13:52.660 --> 01:13:53.780

Phil: It's not a proper review.

01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:54.640

Phil: And guess what?

01:13:54.680 --> 01:13:56.160

Phil: I sold a copy of the book.

01:13:56.940 --> 01:14:04.400

Tom: Look, if people can arrange sexual intercourse at their work in a confessional, allegedly.

01:14:04.420 --> 01:14:05.560

Phil: Well, politicians can.

01:14:06.020 --> 01:14:14.280

Tom: I'm not accepting any that you cannot tap one out at your own desk in a better manner than this, please.

01:14:15.320 --> 01:14:16.480

Phil: So what's the problem?

01:14:16.680 --> 01:14:27.760

Tom: You are on air as claiming you would make a great prime minister, and yet this is what you're offering up as your at-job masturbation fare.

01:14:28.620 --> 01:14:31.140

Phil: Look, the site needed content.

01:14:31.300 --> 01:14:34.420

Phil: I skipped a show because I'm getting new flooring in Studio B.

01:14:34.900 --> 01:14:37.780

Phil: Anyway, what's your problem with my review at gameunder.net?

01:14:38.100 --> 01:14:40.840

Tom: Well, three points I have a problem with.

01:14:40.860 --> 01:14:41.460

Tom: Three points.

01:14:42.140 --> 01:14:54.360

Tom: The first point, which I just had on air, came up with your description of the book, is your description of it makes it sound hilarious and potentially actually worth reading.

01:14:55.080 --> 01:15:00.140

Tom: That did not come across in the review on the website, so that's my additional reason.

01:15:01.940 --> 01:15:03.180

Tom: My other two reasons.

01:15:04.300 --> 01:15:15.740

Tom: One is I do not think that this is really a very accurate attitude towards great or even good writing at all.

01:15:16.900 --> 01:15:36.600

Tom: While it may apply, sorry, Ken Williams, as we can tell from your description of the book, would be an example of why this wouldn't even help and would actually result in a mediocre, totally unworth reading book, instead of something that is at least hilarious and ridiculous.

01:15:37.280 --> 01:15:56.420

Tom: You suggest that unlike running a company, where you need some sort of maverick genius to run things, unlike the simple unambitious matter of writing a book where you need some sort of committee in the back Not a committee, an editor.

01:15:56.440 --> 01:15:59.240

Tom: You need some sort of committee in the background.

01:15:59.380 --> 01:16:07.480

Tom: Or an editor, which is a totally absurd concept, which is new to writing.

01:16:08.540 --> 01:16:22.860

Tom: And I think gained a lot of credence, not from writing, the practice of writing, but the practice of cinema, where due to the physical literal process of making films, you do require an editor.

01:16:22.860 --> 01:16:29.060

Phil: Look, I'm saying for a podcast like this, you can be bombastic as you want, but I still edit it.

01:16:30.100 --> 01:16:41.640

Phil: But what I'm saying is every time that you've edited one of my written works, or I've had someone at work with an English degree edit some of my written works, it's always better, like way, way, way, way better.

01:16:42.520 --> 01:16:43.380

Tom: But that's you.

01:16:43.400 --> 01:16:45.000

Tom: Are you a great writer?

01:16:45.020 --> 01:16:47.820

Tom: Yeah, but Ken Williams, are you a great writer?

01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:49.940

Tom: And here's the question.

01:16:49.940 --> 01:16:50.900

Tom: What were you writing?

01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:59.860

Tom: Were you writing an autobiography about some, a name topic such as you running Sierra Online?

01:17:00.500 --> 01:17:00.780

Phil: No.

01:17:01.660 --> 01:17:01.960

Tom: No.

01:17:02.100 --> 01:17:10.480

Tom: So you were probably doing this for a clear purpose in mind that would have served some purpose.

01:17:10.580 --> 01:17:12.080

Phil: I wanted to communicate effectively.

01:17:12.300 --> 01:17:12.660

Tom: Yes.

01:17:13.080 --> 01:17:16.200

Phil: If you go to Ken Williams, He doesn't want to communicate effectively.

01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:22.860

Tom: And you say to him, Okay, let's just talk about your day at work at Sierra Online.

01:17:23.280 --> 01:17:38.640

Tom: You'll end up with this book that contains, okay, what you as a Sierra Online fan finds interesting, but is an objectively worse book because as you've described it, That's hilarious.

01:17:38.660 --> 01:17:38.840

Phil: Yep.

01:17:38.860 --> 01:17:39.280

Phil: You're right.

01:17:40.240 --> 01:17:41.260

Tom: You see what I'm saying?

01:17:41.280 --> 01:17:41.460

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:41.480 --> 01:17:41.720

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:41.740 --> 01:17:41.940

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:41.960 --> 01:17:42.920

Phil: I see exactly what you're saying.

01:17:42.940 --> 01:17:50.020

Phil: The book as it was being self-published and unedited actually gives me a better insight into who Ken Williams is and how he operates.

01:17:50.480 --> 01:17:51.080

Tom: Exactly.

01:17:51.120 --> 01:17:51.400

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:52.760 --> 01:18:05.180

Tom: And the other point is again related to self-publishing because and this doesn't supply to books as well, but there is an attitude that is very much against self-publishing.

01:18:06.040 --> 01:18:06.520

Phil: Oh yeah.

01:18:07.280 --> 01:18:11.580

Tom: As if this results in a lower level of quality.

01:18:12.020 --> 01:18:34.640

Tom: But I don't see anyone citing any objective evidence for this unless they believe that what defines quality is your ability to follow a convention, which is I would argue possibly the worst way of defining quality.

01:18:35.120 --> 01:18:38.340

Tom: And you can see this that even there it doesn't really apply.

01:18:38.580 --> 01:18:51.940

Tom: For instance, if you have a self-published book that has typos in it and things like that, you'll get an endless barrage of criticism or factual errors.

01:18:52.540 --> 01:18:54.880

Tom: What is this fucking dumb hack doing?

01:18:55.120 --> 01:18:57.440

Tom: He didn't even bother fucking proofreading this shit.

01:18:57.700 --> 01:18:59.320

Tom: He's got all these factual errors.

01:18:59.540 --> 01:19:02.780

Tom: He doesn't even know the subject he's talking about.

01:19:03.740 --> 01:19:22.820

Tom: May I just suggest people look up the fact that the Encyclopedia Britannica not only contains numerous typos, but an absolute wealth of factually incorrect content that has been documented by people.

01:19:24.020 --> 01:19:32.640

Tom: But because that has the status of being published by so-and-so, no, we don't notice this.

01:19:33.400 --> 01:19:35.700

Tom: So those were my three problems with the review.

01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:54.320

Phil: The funny thing, it wasn't a review, but also the funny thing was he starts the book by putting in clip art every three pages, and then by the third chapter, he's completely dropped to that, which again, never would have worked in a book that had been professionally published or edited, but again, tells you something about Ken Williams.

01:19:54.340 --> 01:19:57.420

Phil: He's like, you know what, this is kind of boring.

01:19:57.440 --> 01:20:06.680

Phil: I think we could punch this up with a stock footage photo of Moonshine, because my grandfather was made to Moonshine.

01:20:06.700 --> 01:20:07.840

Phil: Yeah, let's put that in.

01:20:09.040 --> 01:20:14.140

Phil: He puts clip art in the first three chapters and then just trails off like, oh yeah, I forgot about that.

01:20:14.840 --> 01:20:15.500

Phil: It is great.

01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:16.100

Phil: You're right.

01:20:16.180 --> 01:20:18.000

Tom: The cover is something to behold.

01:20:18.020 --> 01:20:18.780

Phil: Oh, the cover.

01:20:20.280 --> 01:20:20.940

Phil: The cover.

01:20:21.280 --> 01:20:24.740

Phil: You know, your critique is absolutely beautiful and spot on.

01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:26.800

Phil: Thank you for the clarity that you bring.

01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:28.220

Phil: Very much.

01:20:28.240 --> 01:20:28.940

Phil: I enjoyed that.

01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:36.900

Tom: So next time you want commentary on a book Phil has read, come to me, even when I haven't read the book.

01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:39.660

Phil: Well, let me read it and review it.

01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:44.760

Phil: And actually, I'm reading Sid Meyers, who is, you know, Sid Meyers.

01:20:45.160 --> 01:20:49.380

Phil: I'm reading his biography right now, so I'll be doing a micro review of that as well.

01:20:49.400 --> 01:20:50.840

Phil: So maybe we can do that on the next show.

01:20:52.200 --> 01:20:56.820

Tom: I'll have to add while we're there, because we have talked about self-help books in the past.

01:20:57.380 --> 01:21:14.520

Tom: I've read a few books by luminaries of Silicon Valley, such as Peter Thiel, among others, and I've noticed some real similarities between self-help books and what they write.

01:21:14.740 --> 01:21:53.840

Tom: So self-help books might be on the right track, but the one difference I've noticed between the two is, as well as focusing on being essentially a charlatan, but sort of being semi-aware that you're a charlatan, but also not aware that you're a charlatan is, and I think this is the absolute fundamental thing that they have in common, is the most important thing for pretty much everyone, with the exception of maybe Steve Jobs, is to, one, have very upper middle class parents, and two, go to an Ivy League college.

01:21:55.000 --> 01:22:01.400

Tom: Those, I think, are the greatest keys to success, but I've not seen that mentioned in any self-help book ever.

01:22:02.580 --> 01:22:03.780

Phil: You're absolutely right.

01:22:05.240 --> 01:22:18.780

Phil: Again, I've just got to thank you for the clarity of thought that you bring, and we are not going to be able to get to, not tonight, ironically, not tonight, for the second time, and also Hotshot Racing.

01:22:18.800 --> 01:22:25.440

Tom: I believe you also censored my follow-up to censorship.

01:22:25.460 --> 01:22:25.600

Tom: Yes.

01:22:25.620 --> 01:22:26.960

Tom: That will be returning.

01:22:26.980 --> 01:22:35.960

Phil: We will have to leave that for another show, but with that, do you have any closing thoughts for episode 135 of The Game Under Podcast?

01:22:37.580 --> 01:22:44.960

Tom: Just again, the key to success is be born into wealth and go to an Ivy League college.

01:22:45.140 --> 01:22:46.200

Phil: I couldn't disagree.

01:22:46.220 --> 01:22:47.100

Tom: It's as simple as that.

01:22:47.120 --> 01:22:48.260

Phil: It's absolutely true.

01:22:48.460 --> 01:22:55.280

Phil: Having been in America for 20 years, I can tell you that that is the only thing you need to do to find success.

01:22:55.800 --> 01:22:57.620

Phil: With that, I am Phil Fogg.

01:22:59.660 --> 01:23:02.000

Tom: I am definitely Tom Towers, thankfully.

01:23:02.160 --> 01:23:03.120

Phil: We will see you next time.