Game Under Podcast 164

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0:00:27 Intro

0:00:45 UK & Russia Agree on Games

0:20:03 Sony Fire Shuhei Yoshida

0:23:30 My First Gran Turismo

0:25:55 Alarmo is not Launching on Time

0:27:04 Call of Duty: Black Ops 6

0:33:09 STALKER 2

0:41:45 LaunchBox

0:46:05 Balatro

0:52:00 Poker on TV, HSC and Soap Operas

1:02:30 Crimson Diamond

1:22:17 E-mail

1:29:15 Outro
Transcript:
WEBVTT

Phil: Hello, and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast, Australia's longest running video game podcast.

Phil: My name is Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by my fellow host.

Tom: Fellow host, I think, uh, primary host.

Phil: Okay, well, primary host.

Phil: You did graduate primary school, so I guess that's an appropriate descriptor.

Tom: The only school I've graduated.

Phil: Mr.

Phil: Tom Towers.

Tom: PhD, which stands for primary school certificate.

Phil: Primary school, yeah.

Phil: Listen, you're obviously not really prepared to do a podcast, so I'm going to give you a break.

Phil: I'm going to go straight into news, and we're going to go into a light story first.

Phil: And that is, this may not seem gaming related, but Russian and UK governments think games are influential.

Phil: Hey, this is a great thing.

Phil: These two countries coming together.

Phil: The credit to this story goes to Eurogamer.

Phil: Getting two stories for the price of one here.

Phil: Earlier this week, the UK counter-terrorism unit demanded that Steam withdraw a controversial shooter from sale.

Phil: The game, The Knights of the Al-Aqsa Mosque, which describes itself as both max pain on steroids as well as addressing the Israel-Ex-Palestine conflict from a Palestinian perspective.

Phil: Now, I found those two self-descriptors in different articles.

Phil: I think that's pretty interesting that they call themselves both max pain on steroids.

Phil: And then in another story, they describe themselves as addressing the Israel-Ex-Palestine conflict.

Tom: I think both can be true.

Phil: Definitely.

Phil: I think one puts it in a different range of seriousness, though.

Phil: Anyway, the game was removed when Steam contacted developer Nidal Nimj to inform him that it received a request from the authorities in the UK to block the game and have applied such country restrictions.

Phil: Now, this isn't a new game.

Phil: It was released in and it was updated this month to include content reflecting Hamas's th of October terrorist attack.

Phil: A trailer for the update shows fighters that appear to be from Hamas landing in an Israel base and graphically executing Israeli soldiers.

Phil: The email to the Brazilian developer, Steam said, allegedly, this is based on what the developer is saying, quote, we've received a request from authorities in the UK to block the game and have applied such country restrictions.

Phil: When the developer reported to ask if there was a specific reason for the UK ban, he stated, my game is not too much different from other shooter games like Call of Duty.

Phil: He was told, we were contacted by the Counterterrorism Command of the United Kingdom, with an authority for a region, and as such, we must cooperate with any authority from a region that oversees and governs what content can be made available.

Phil: We have to comply with their requests.

Phil: Then, so that was the UK story.

Phil: Then later this week, Stalker Heart of Chernobyl, is reportedly being targeted by a Russian disinformation campaign falsely claiming that the post-apocalyptic shooter scans players' computers in order to help the Ukrainian government, quote, locate citizens suitable for mobilization.

Phil: As reported by Media, the claims have been made in a one-minute video, stamped with a fake, wired watermark.

Phil: So basically, why I'm supporting what they're saying here about why I'm using the fake and falsely claiming is because they're saying this is coming from Wired Magazine, but it's not.

Phil: So I'm letting that go.

Phil: But in reality, it's unconnected to the publication.

Phil: That's being circulated on social media sites and being sent directly to journalists' inbox.

Phil: The video asserts that an embedded program was discovered in Stalker 's code that collects player data and transmits it to GSC, the game's developer.

Phil: It's claims that this data is said to include the device name, IP address and current location of the player that's transmitted every second without the user's knowledge and handed to the Ukrainian government because GSC made a deal with the state, end quote, in order to secure funding for Stalker

Phil: It's better to play, quote, it's better to play using a VPN or boycott this game for your own safety.

Phil: Stalker 's website was previously blocked by the Russian government after they posted a message calling for an end to the invasion of Ukraine.

Phil: And the studio has also been targeted by hackers who stole the Stalker development material.

Phil: Just one thing here.

Phil: So the video, quote, falsely asserts an embedded program was discovered in Stalker codes.

Phil: It collects player data and transmits it to the developer's servers, including the device name, IP address and current location of the player that is transmitted every second.

Phil: That's just basically like geolocation.

Phil: I mean, Mario Kart does that when you go online.

Tom: I think so.

Phil: Yeah, because I mean, every online game basically is taking your IP address, probably your device name, I don't know.

Phil: And your location, because they're geolocating you, so they can put you against players in a local server.

Phil: So I think that part of it's probably true.

Phil: The question is, they're saying that this information is then being handed to the Ukraine government to locate citizens suitable for mobilization.

Phil: I guess what they're saying is, oh, this guy is really good at Stalker we should try and put him in our...

Phil: Put him in...

Tom: In front lines.

Phil: His Mussolinsky impression.

Phil: We should get these players who are good at Stalker and put them in our forces.

Phil: Armed forces.

Phil: So basically, we've got two examples of governments intervening.

Phil: The difference is the UK government banned the game and the Russian disinformation, whatever, is just basically, they didn't ban the game.

Phil: They're just saying, hey, you know, use a VPN.

Tom: There's just a little bit of wishful thinking going on there, I think.

Tom: That's it.

Phil: With me, or?

Tom: No, no, with the Russian government statement on the game.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Tom: And only a little bit, because you would assume that during wartime, the Ukrainian government would be interested in as much information as possible on any sort of internet activity from Russia related to the Ukraine.

Tom: So it's pretty plausible that they would be getting information on whether it was being played in Russia.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Whether or not GSC is cooperating or not.

Tom: But they would no doubt have to cooperate.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: But the Russians, this game, I think they're currently in Poland.

Phil: The Ukrainian company that I think moved their development to Poland, right?

Tom: So they didn't even develop it in Ukraine.

Phil: Well, they tried.

Phil: Give them a break.

Phil: They tried until the country was invaded.

Tom: They should have stuck it out in a bunker and developed it if they were true patriots.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Maybe the game would have turned out better.

Phil: But you've been playing it, right?

Phil: So we will get to that.

Phil: We will get to that.

Tom: But I think there's a lot more to this story.

Phil: Look, I know we're going to get to it.

Phil: But what I'm saying is, they're not tracking Russian players.

Phil: A Russian disinformation campaign is claiming that the Ukrainian government is using it to identify Ukrainian citizens who are good at stalker so they can mobilize them.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: That's what it...

Phil: Okay?

Phil: Which is on its face.

Phil: Well, it's a lot like that movie with Matthew Broderick.

Phil: What was it?

Phil: War Games?

Phil: Where the kid was identified as being really good at an arcade shooter and then the aliens came down and said, you must come and save our planet.

Phil: And again, we don't know that this is a Russian government disinformation.

Phil: I mean, to me, this sounds like just a usual, like this sounds like a humorous way to get attention on YouTube.

Tom: It could be marketing by GSC Game World for all we know.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So before we go back to the first story about the Knights of Al-Aqsa Mosque, anything else to say about this part of the story?

Tom: Well, I think just on the contrast between the two, as you noted, the Russian government, if it was them, are just making a humorous claim about it.

Tom: Meanwhile, the UK government just demanded that the game be banned.

Tom: And we're meant to be, I think, in the free speech loving section of the world, as opposed to the sensorial Russia.

Tom: In addition to that, I think the two headlines are quite interesting.

Tom: In the case of the reporting on the UK banning the game, it says, UK counter-terrorism unit demands steam block game, as opposed to the UK as a whole.

Tom: Whereas in the case of Russia, supposedly Russia making a statement, it's Russia colon, as if it's the entire nation making this statement.

Phil: Right.

Phil: Yeah, I agree.

Phil: And both of these came from the same source, Eurogamer.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: And they're taking it from a certain lens.

Phil: I would have hoped that someone reporting this from the UK would have...

Phil: I mean, they're basically just like, oh yeah, so this guy made a controversial game.

Phil: Like, their description, as journalists, is they watched the trailer, and this is their description.

Phil: A trailer for the update shows fighters that appear to be from Hamas, landing in an Israeli base and graphically executing Israeli soldiers.

Phil: I guess there's no real spin on that.

Phil: That's pretty straight up and down.

Tom: Well, they should have played it, for one thing, and not merely watched the trailer.

Phil: Just watched the trailer.

Phil: Yeah, but they've got to get the story out before someone else does.

Tom: You would have thought someone they knew would have played it, or at least had more knowledge of it than simply watching a trailer.

Tom: I was familiar with this game long before it was banned in the UK.

Tom: It's certainly not a mainstream game, but it's not a totally obscure game that you would not expect video game journalists have some knowledge of.

Phil: Yes, yeah, now, okay, so two points here.

Phil: Should Steam and does Steam have the right to remove the game if a government agency asks them to remove the game?

Phil: I don't blame Steam.

Phil: One point at this, Steam has to operate in every legal jurisdiction that they operate in.

Phil: They're just trying to make money.

Phil: If the government tells them that Hello Kitty is banned in Japan, they're going to take down Hello Kitty because it's banned in Japan.

Phil: I don't think this is political at all.

Phil: I think this is Steam just doing the lowest risk activity that they can, which is complying with a government entity.

Tom: I don't agree with that.

Tom: This is consistent with Steam policy in that they will fully support any sort of political posturing that they receive as long as it doesn't have a notable effect on their profits because they have certainly tried to fight against having to be in line with consumer law in countries that have some reasonable consumer laws.

Phil: Oh yeah, I mean they fought Australia vociferously and basically said, well, we'll just pull out of Australia.

Phil: You know, they were doing all sorts of things as we talked about.

Tom: So they certainly pick and choose what laws they believe they should automatically follow.

Phil: Brilliant point.

Phil: Go to our website gameunder.net and in the search type in ACCC and you'll see a story that I wrote a few years ago about how Steam chose not to follow a government dictate in a locality.

Phil: So, I mean, what's the point here, right?

Phil: I mean, I think that...

Phil: Am I offended if a game is depicting the Hamas th October attack?

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's probably unpopular to say, but yeah, I'm offended by that.

Phil: I'd be offended by any act of brutality being depicted in any form of media.

Phil: You know, I'm offended by it.

Tom: I should add that this does not depict the October th attack.

<v SPEAKER_>Okay.

Phil: Well, it says here that the game was updated this month to include content reflecting aspects of Hamas' October terrorist attack.

Phil: A trailer for the update shows fighters that appear to be from Hamas landing in an Israeli base and graphically executing Israeli soldiers.

Tom: I don't believe that that is accurate.

Tom: I think that's their interpretation of the trailer.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Well, that's fine.

Phil: That's certainly the position of the counter-terrorism unit of the UK as well.

Phil: Again, just to contradict myself, I watched a really old movie called Pattern the other day, which is about World War II.

Phil: It was made a very long time ago.

Phil: It was obviously made by veterans of that war because it has very graphic and realistic depictions of the brutality of war in its opening scenes and throughout, that I haven't seen in video games and I haven't even seen in movies since.

Phil: And I was trying to think, well, why?

Phil: Why is this very old movie that easily could have left it all out?

Phil: Why did they include this disgusting brutality of war in a non-gory way, just in the way that war would be accepted?

Phil: And I saw this recently in, the only place I've seen this in recently is in Indica, where there's a scene close to the start of the game where some vehicle of some kind, a ship or a train or something like that is destroyed.

Phil: And they show the brutality of that attack.

Phil: I don't know if you recall that part of the game.

Phil: It's where the doctors address giving out basically death injections to the suffering victims, the soldiers.

Phil: So, you know, and it's not pleasant to watch, but when I watched Patton, I was like, wow, you know, that really opened a different perspective for me in terms of the brutality of war.

Phil: Now, I've always been, you know, against war.

Phil: But like it was like it was showing it in a way that only people who were making the film who must have lived through it were saying, well, this is what it looks like, people.

Phil: So I'm not saying that a game should be banned for being challenging or being graphic.

Phil: I personally can be offended by the content and feel that, you know, this isn't the sort of thing that I want to watch, but certainly I wouldn't ban it, you know, just as I wouldn't ban Patton, I wouldn't ban this game because you can't ban speech because it's offensive.

Phil: You can only...

Phil: When can you ban speech?

Phil: I mean, when it has a tangible and direct violent impact, I guess.

Tom: In what way would speech have a tangible violent impact?

Phil: Well, the old adage in the States is, you know, screaming fire in a crowded theatre when there is no fire, you know, causing people to leave the theatre in a hurried manny and crushing people.

Tom: This sounds like bad theatre design.

Tom: It should be possible to safely evacuate a cinema in the case of a fire.

Phil: Yeah, but you know, you had the case, boy, this is really getting into a downer.

Phil: I mean, there was a news story this week about the people in Hamas, you know, getting crushed to death in trying to get a crust of bread or, you know, scooping the remnants out of a soup pot, you know.

Phil: So, you know, crushing, crushing, crushing deaths do happen, as you know.

Tom: Of course.

Phil: So, yeah, so I'm offended by both sides of this thing.

Phil: So don't, please, listen, don't, don't.

Tom: Well, the game isn't called Fire and it's not necessarily played in the theatre, though theoretically could be.

Phil: No, and I, and I support the game.

Phil: And if I was at the counterterrorism command of the United Kingdom, unless it was putting UK citizens at harm, I wouldn't be calling for it to be banned.

Tom: That's why you're not the head of the UK counterterrorism.

Phil: Oh, crap.

Phil: I've talked my way out of another job.

Phil: And you're not getting hired by Tesla anytime soon either.

Phil: I could tell you that.

Tom: Probably not.

Tom: Before we move on from Patton, though, I just want to quote this brilliant section from Wikipedia, which I think really emphasizes the moving power of art and the sort of influence an anti-war film like Patton can have on people in a truly world-changing manner.

Tom: Nixon first viewed Patton with his family at a private screening in the White House Family Theatre on April th,

Tom: Nixon became obsessed with the film, repeatedly watching it with Henry Kissinger over the next month.

Tom: He screened it several times at the White House and during a cruise on the presidential yacht USS Sequoia in the Potomac River.

Tom: Kissinger's...

Tom: Sorry, Potomac River.

Tom: Kissinger sarcastically wrote of Nixon's insistence that he see the film on the cruise, it was the second time he had so honored me.

Tom: Inspiring as the film no doubt was, I managed to escape for an hour in the middle of it to prepare for the next day's NSC meeting.

Phil: I mean, good company.

Phil: Now look, once was enough for me.

Phil: I wasn't, I'm not about to pull it out on Christmas Day.

Phil: I said, guys, you gotta watch this movie.

Phil: Okay, so have we been, I don't think that your position has been struck here.

Phil: I'm going to restate my position.

Phil: One of them apparently is the government just pulling a lark, the Russian one saying, don't play this game.

Phil: Or if you do, play it, but use a VPN.

Phil: And the other is a country that is essentially banning free speech.

Tom: Yep, pretty much.

Tom: I would add that the game is also banned in Australia.

Phil: Oh, of course.

Tom: It's technically not banned, but it has not been classified because the developer could not afford to submit it for classification.

Tom: And the Australian government contacted Steam to let them know it has not been classified, which is essentially an indirect way of banning it, because there are numerous games on Steam that are not classified in Australia but are still available.

Phil: Why are they, exactly, why are they being so gutless about it?

Phil: Australia has usually been very happy to be banning games.

Phil: I mean...

Tom: Well, if it had been submitted for classification, no doubt it would have been refused classification.

Phil: To answer my question, banned or not banned?

Phil: Mark Echo's Contents Under Pressure.

Tom: Banned.

Phil: GTA

Tom: Was that banned at some point?

Tom: I think one version of it was.

Phil: It was banned at launch.

Tom: But then I think it was resubmitted.

Phil: Then you say banned.

Tom: I think they had to remove the hiring prostitutes for it to be classified.

Phil: Yeah, but you've got to say the banned part.

Tom: Banned.

Phil: We'll do that again.

Tom: Banned and unbanned.

Phil: You stepped on it.

Phil: Okay, now we'll do it properly.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto

Tom: Banned and then unbanned.

Phil: Banned and unbanned.

Phil: Rule of Rose.

Tom: Banned.

Phil: Yeah, you probably know the lists longer than I do.

Phil: So why, you know, why just do this chicken, you know, this is crazy.

Phil: All right, on to lighter topics.

Phil: And we like to gossip here at The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Long-term PlayStation management legend leaves after years of loyal service.

Phil: Now, I wrote this story, but the source of it comes from PlayStation podcast.

Phil: You've heard of Shuhei Yoshida, certainly.

Tom: Yep, of course.

Phil: We've talked about him here.

Phil: He's a very likable fellow.

Phil: At the tender age of he was the first non-engineer to join Ken Kuroagi's PlayStation team when they were developing the original PlayStation.

Phil: So you can kind of do the math, he's

Phil: His first assignment was to convince Japanese developers and publishers that Sony was making a legitimate entry into video games.

Phil: And over the years, he's held several roles.

Phil: Ultimately, he became the head of PlayStation Studios, first in Japan and then globally.

Phil: And after some management reshuffles, he was ostensibly demoted to the amorphous role of head of independent development.

Tom: I'm just going to correct you that he's in fact years old.

Tom: Important correction.

Phil: So he went from being the head of PlayStation Studios, first in Japan, and then globally.

Phil: There was some management reshuffles a few years ago, and he was ostensibly demoted to the amorphous role of head of independent development.

Phil: And he's now withdrawing.

Phil: He says he'd like to stay in the industry, end quote.

Phil: As he announced his resignation, Sony apparently has a different view.

Phil: So my question to you is, given my slanted story, do you think he was, he jumped or he was pushed?

Tom: I think maybe a bit of both.

Phil: How so?

Tom: He saw what happened to, what was the one who died of cancer?

Tom: The white guy?

Tom: I don't think it was a white guy, the Japanese one.

Tom: Wasn't he at Sony?

Tom: Oh no, he was Nintendo, wasn't he?

Phil: No, Nintendo.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Yamachi, yeah.

Tom: I was going to say maybe the stress of being a Japanese CEO was getting to him.

Tom: He saw they were dying all around him and was thinking that was enough.

Tom: But if that wasn't Nintendo, then that theory doesn't fly.

Phil: No, no, he wasn't.

Phil: And well, I mean, the point is the guy is years old, right?

Tom: And the guy who was assassinated on a freeway was also Nintendo, wasn't he?

Phil: Oh yes.

Phil: Now, that was Gunpei Yokoi, the developer of the Game Boy, Super Metroid, and various other things.

Phil: He left the company to go and make the WonderSwan, and then mysteriously had to change a tire on a freeway and was accidentally hit by a car.

Tom: Accidentally.

Phil: Well, you know, accidents do happen.

Phil: So let's hope that Shuhei Yoshida doesn't get a flat tire on the freeway anytime soon.

Phil: I think that him saying I'd like to stay in the industry after he's been put in the closet office as the head of independent development.

Phil: Look, he oversaw that like some of the best years of PlayStation and definitely PlayStation and was a champion for innovation and small games.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And on top of that, just being a tremendously nice person.

Phil: I think he's been pushed out.

Phil: And I think him saying he'd like to stay in the industry is his way of saying, I'm not going of my own recognizance.

Phil: They gave me a boring, nothing to do job.

Phil: Speaking of Sony story just popped up today.

Phil: Sony is going to release a free to play version of Gran Turismo.

Phil: It's called My First Gran Turismo.

Phil: Credit for the story goes to Eurogamer as well.

Phil: Sony is releasing its first Gran Turismo, My First Gran Turismo this week, a new free to play game that pays tribute to the origin of the first game on the original PlayStation.

Phil: It's going to be available for both PlayStation and PlayStation from the th of December in honor of PlayStation's th anniversary.

Phil: The game is apparently going to aim to be approachable to all skill levels and even has support for PlayStation VR too.

Phil: This isn't about playing a game, it's about embarking on a personal driving journey, said Polyphony Digital President Kazunori Yamauchi.

Phil: Quote, we've made sure the experience is intuitive, allowing anyone to get behind the wheel and master the essentials.

Phil: By playing it, users will build confidence one lap at a time and steadily refine their driving skills.

Phil: End quote.

Phil: My first Gran Turismo features simplified versions of Gran Turismo 's modes, including race events, time trials, and music rally stages.

Phil: There are unique cars and iconic tracks from the series.

Phil: No news yet about DLC.

Phil: Thoughts?

Tom: Do you need PlayStation Plus to be able to play it?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: I don't think so.

Phil: You'd have to have an online PlayStation profile.

Phil: The fact that they're providing it free to play in a celebration of their th anniversary, I think this is going to be something that they want to get out to everyone.

Phil: And I think it's a smart strategy on Sony's part because, you know, first of all, they're releasing it for PlayStation and

Phil: They're only giving you, quote, only giving you cars and making it more approachable, because I think a lot of people would be intimidated by Gran Turismo at this point.

Phil: I think it's a smart move.

Phil: I hope it works for them.

Tom: I would certainly play it.

Phil: Hey, we'll check out how big the download is.

Phil: I'd definitely be interested in at least downloading it for the PlayStation and checking it out.

Phil: I miss Gran Turismo tremendously from my life, from my gaming life.

Tom: I suspect it will be too big.

Phil: I suspect also.

Phil: And before we get into what we've been playing, just a quick one-liner really.

Phil: You remember that Nintendo Alarm-o we talked about, the clock that made a sound every time you moved?

Tom: Yes, I do.

Phil: Well, it's apparently not going to launch on time.

Tom: So, it hasn't made its launch date?

Phil: Well, it's available to Nintendo Switch Online subscribers in the US and Europe, but in the UK and Japan, it hasn't been released yet, and it hasn't been released to the wider public.

Phil: In Japan, currently, they're only offering it to NSO users via a lottery system.

Phil: So, they basically blame logistics, manufacturing, popularity of the thing and all the rest of it.

Phil: But the fact that you're shipping a clock that's not going to launch when you said it was going to...

Tom: I think it's interesting publicity to say the least.

Phil: It is.

Phil: It is.

Phil: A story just popped up today about half an hour ago.

Phil: All right.

Phil: So, you want to get into what we've been playing?

Phil: You want to lead off with anything interesting you've been doing?

Tom: Well, following on from controversial games, I thought I should mention that I've just started Black Ops recently.

Phil: People seem to like it.

Tom: Well, in terms of gameplay, I'm both pleasantly surprised and also somewhat disappointed.

Tom: I think the most interesting thing about it is that it's structurally quite different to previous Call of Duty games.

Tom: Instead of being a mission-to-mission campaign, after the first mission, you end up at your home base, where you can upgrade your weapons or how much army you can carry and how much health you have.

Tom: So, there's a sort of almost RPG-like element to it in terms of your character progression.

Tom: And from there, you can start missions as opposed to just going from mission to mission.

Tom: And you can also customize your home base as well.

Tom: So, it's structurally very different to previous Call of Duty games.

Tom: I think in terms of the mission design, so far I've only paid a few missions.

Tom: It's very much what you would expect of Call of Duty, where it is predominantly a Whack-a-Mole game.

Tom: The only real sort of difference in terms of it just being corridor to Whack-a-Mole to corridor is a remote-controlled explosive RC car that you can control.

Tom: But other than that, it's really very much bog-standard Call of Duty so far.

Phil: Of course, being a Black Ops game is developed by Treyarch with support from Raven Software.

Phil: I love that Raven is still around doing something.

Phil: I hope they get to make their own games again one day.

Phil: And available for PlayStation Windows, Xbox One and Series X and S.

Phil: I am surprised that they're still releasing this for PlayStation and Xbox One, but I probably shouldn't because it has a massive install base, at least the PlayStation does.

Phil: You played it on PC, I'm guessing?

Tom: Correct.

Tom: It's Trey on Game Pass.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: And it's set in which is interesting.

Phil: So did you pick up on that?

Tom: The first one is The Gulf War, right?

Phil: Okay, yep.

Phil: The first time around.

Tom: Yeah, I believe it starts in The Gulf War.

Tom: That's the setting of the first mission.

Phil: Are you very far into it yet?

Tom: Not at all.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: But I know it's got Frank Woods in it.

Phil: He's the guy that's been in Blobs, I think, the whole time.

Phil: So, yeah.

Phil: Well, now, the whack-a-mole aspect of it.

Phil: Do you enjoy that or not enjoy that?

Tom: I think I enjoyed it in, I think the game that did the best is Call of Duty

Tom: And I don't think any other Call of Duty has done it as well as that to the point where it's worth playing for more than just a brief taste, I would say.

Phil: I think the probably one of the, I am a fan of Call of Duty.

Phil: I liked the last games that I played in the series that I could download were, or download updates for were World War II.

Phil: And it certainly had a whack-a-mole aspect to it.

Phil: I thought that was a good game.

Phil: And then also Ghosts was surprisingly good as well.

Phil: So...

Tom: Well, I think the thing with the whack-a-mole is to make it work, you need a very strong sense of spectacle, which I think is lacking here to a large degree.

Phil: So the role, the parts that you played, are they still at the base somewhere, or have you actually entered the war theater in...

Tom: Well, it begins, it begins in a combat situation in the Gulf War.

Tom: After that, you end up at your home base and then you start beginning missions on your own.

Phil: Okay, okay.

Phil: Well, that makes sense.

Phil: Because I think the overall story is something about you trying to prevent the CIA director from being replaced.

Tom: Well, of course, as in any American generic action story, you're working for an organization that is shitty because you've got a shitty boss and it's all his fucking fault and it's got nothing to do with anything else.

Tom: It's all just about this one fucking dickhead being an asshole.

Phil: Fair enough.

Tom: He needs to blame for everything.

Tom: Forget about what the thing you're working for is.

Tom: It's all that fucking dickhead's fault.

Phil: Are you going to score this game?

Tom: I think I may as well give it a score.

Phil: All right.

Tom: Given I'm probably not going to go back to it.

Phil: Break out the Dia Destiny and I'll get the mini-fig ready.

Tom: I would just add, I mean, we're talking about, and there were a lot of comments on that Eurogamer article mentioning, understanding why it might be banned because of how potentially offensive it is.

Tom: It's always worth pointing out that Call of Fucking Duty has existed for the past years or however long it's been.

Phil: This game is actually the st instalment of Call of Duty.

Phil: This is the th main entry in the Black Ops series.

Tom: And I assume it's called Black Ops because there's a black guy in the game.

Tom: Is that what the series is based on?

Tom: You play as the token black dude?

Phil: No.

Tom: Okay, so I misunderstood that.

Phil: Yeah, you're confusing it with the other video game, Black Cops.

Tom: Okay.

Phil: Yeah, so that's a different one altogether.

Phil: Alright, Dye of Destiny ready?

Tom: The Dye of Destiny is ready.

Phil: Let it roll.

Tom: Gets out of

Phil: out of

Phil: And the mini fig says it gets a out of

Tom: So pretty close this time.

Phil: Pretty close.

Phil: Pretty closely aligned.

Phil: Have you been playing any other first person shooters of note that would be of interest to the audience?

Tom: I don't know if it would be of interest to the audience, but I've been playing another first person shooter of note that is of interest to me, and that is Stalker

Phil: Stalker would certainly be of interest.

Phil: We've talked about it extensively in the last episode.

Phil: So, and you said...

Tom: We probably talked about it more in the previous episode than we will in this episode.

Phil: We'll in this one.

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: Alright.

Phil: So, I've heard it's pretty crap with a lot of graphical flaws and a lot of bugs and a lot of gameplay flaws and the gunplay is terrible, which I can go into more detail in.

Phil: But what are your impressions?

Tom: Well, so far, I'm almost an hour in and I'm yet to encounter a glitch.

Tom: So, if that's the standard we're going by, I think the hype around the glitchiness of it in terms of the series is very, very inaccurate.

Tom: But I am one gigabyte update in so far.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Let me give you one, a couple of the technical glitches and you tell me if they're true or false.

Phil: So basically, shadow geometry is apparently very poor.

Tom: So far, I mean, is that a glitch or just not great graphic design?

Phil: Shadow geometry, I'd say that's...

Phil: No, no, I'm talking about glitch.

Phil: I'm talking about rush job, like poor, just poor job, basically.

Phil: I'm not talking about glitches.

Phil: I'm just talking about this could have been done better.

Tom: Well, the start of the game is very dark.

Tom: So it's, I think the shadows, you don't see particularly well anyway.

Tom: So at this stage, I'm going to say no comment.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Second of all, like one of the main criticisms that were drawn out as an example of this has been rushed, you've got a fire in the woods, you know, people are sitting around it, and you've got a graphical, you know, glow effect on everything in the environment, except for the faces of the people, because it's too complicated to do that.

Tom: I'm yet to get to a famous campfire scene, unfortunately.

Phil: From gameplay perspective, people say that there are just bullet sponges, that unlike in most modern games, if you shoot someone in the knee, they don't react to being shot in the knee, they just keep taking bullets.

Phil: And harder enemies just take more bullets to kill than less harder enemies.

Tom: Well, I think we shouldn't refer to modern games here, we should refer to Stalker, because Stalker, on the hardest difficulty setting, had essentially one-shot kills for enemies.

Tom: Particularly, it was a headshot, which was rare in the era, and one of the things that made it stand out.

Tom: And so far, the humanoid, human enemies have taken, the non-mutated human enemies have taken a few shots to kill, which I think is a little disappointing, as I'm playing it on the hardest difficulty setting.

Phil: And finally, the criticism I've heard is that the gunplay isn't good.

Tom: Well, that's the other thing.

Tom: The gunplay feels very much like a standard sort of first-person shooter.

Tom: There's nothing that seems to stand out about it so far, albeit I'm only one proper firefighter into the game so far.

Phil: Okay, so with those...

Phil: Those are the common concerns that have been put out there.

Phil: So with those concerns addressed, I'll just let you talk freeform about the game.

Tom: Well, some of those concerns, I think, seem potentially valid, but I think it's too early for me to give a proper opinion on it.

Tom: Outside of that, I think the other biggest disappointment for me was the AI., which is epitomized in the first proper firefight I had.

Tom: Essentially, there's this wall and a single doorway, which leads into an open field on the other side, and you're basically in an open field, and there's this single doorway through which you can access it.

Tom: In the field on the other side, there's a couple of boulders that the enemies can use as cover, and they generally don't.

Tom: Two of them did, one of them just continued wandering around, even when they'd been alerted to my presence.

Tom: Additionally, if I just sat there in the doorway, waiting for them to walk up to me and get killed, they all did it.

Tom: This would not have occurred with the AI of the original stalker at all.

Phil: That's terrible.

Phil: That is really terrible, because that's not stalker at all.

Phil: That tells me that something's wrong.

Tom: That's clearly, I think, that's the thing that stood out to me the most and was the least promising thing so far.

Phil: That's really, really disappointing.

Tom: And I think it will be the hardest thing so far to fix with mods.

Tom: Fixing things like shadows and reflections and ballistics all are pretty easy to alter with mods.

Tom: I think AI is a little bit more difficult.

Tom: But still potentially possible.

Phil: Yeah, and fundamental as well.

Phil: So you haven't got that far into the story.

Phil: Tell me about the audio.

Tom: I think aesthetically so far it has been pretty good.

Tom: I think I haven't noticed any major issues with shadows and things like that.

Tom: It's certainly not a polished looking game like a lot of first person shooters of the current day are.

Tom: But so far, atmosphere wise, the non-polished aspect of it adds to the character and atmosphere so far.

Tom: It's got a very rich feeling to it.

Tom: When you're out in the dark in the middle of a field, you definitely feel the oppressive nature of the environment you're in, and you very much feel like you need to get to a form of shelter as quickly as possible when you're out exploring in a dangerous environment.

Tom: So I think aesthetically, I don't have too much to complain about so far.

Phil: I'm surprised that you said it's non-Polish when it's been developed in Poland.

Phil: That's strange to me.

Tom: It's Ukrainian, isn't it?

Phil: Well, it is Ukrainian, but they had to move to Poland, so you'd think it'd be very Polish.

Phil: Now, the darkness thing, I have heard people talk about that.

Phil: So that to me sounds like a unique and interesting introduction.

Tom: I think the original Stalker began in the darkness as well.

Tom: The opening was quite similar to the original Stalker, where you're being transported somewhere via truck, and you end up in a field in the middle of nowhere.

Phil: Yeah, but with HDR capabilities these days of graphic cards and other such things, they say that NVIDIA is going to start, they're going to announce the series at CES this year.

Phil: I think I've got a maybe.

Phil: What have you got?

Phil: You're rocking a aren't you?

Tom: I've got a Super.

Phil: ?

Phil: Will you explain it to me?

Tom: So that's, I think, two generations ago now.

Tom: Really?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Man, okay.

Phil: You, are you already do for an upgrade?

Tom: Not at p, no.

Phil: Okay, all right.

Phil: Fair enough.

Tom: I did notice some small amount of slow down with this on epic settings and quality DLSS, but so far, maybe it'll be an issue with bigger firefights.

Tom: I'm gonna have to go over the settings, but so far it's like dropping to maybe in the worst possible scenario.

Phil: How many years has it been since you did your build?

Tom: I have no idea, but it must be a long time by now.

Phil: Well, that blows my mind, because I'm always like, oh, yeah, Tom's definitely rocking a

Phil: He's got a better reap than me.

Tom: What have you got again?

Phil: I think I'm on

Tom: So I might, because these cards are not very powerful.

Tom: So they're not necessarily more powerful than the higher numbers in previous series.

Phil: Wow.

Phil: Well, that's disappointing.

Phil: I'm not sure it's but I'm certainly happy with what I've got.

Phil: And yeah, at least everything else in the system is upgradable.

Phil: So if I do want to upgrade my video cut, I can do so.

Phil: So too early for scores?

Tom: I think definitely too early for scores.

Phil: Definitely too early.

Tom: This one I will be continuing to play.

Tom: So we'll save the die of destiny for a future date.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: One thing I've been playing, quote, is an application for the PC called LaunchBox.

Phil: Have you heard about this?

Tom: No, I haven't.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, LaunchBox is a...

Phil: It's basically an application that you install that is like...

Phil: That scrapes your computer for all your video game content and then delivers it in a library, right?

Phil: So, it'll go and find all your Steam games, it'll find all your GOG games, it'll find all your Epic games, your Amazon games and everything, and present them in a unified library, so that you see all the boxes, all the hypertext or whatever it's called.

Phil: It's not hypertext.

Phil: All the metadata, all the metadata of the game, and basically, in a very attractive way, it has a free version, which has been suitable for me up till now, but if you buy the full version, it's very affordable.

Phil: I think it's under bucks.

Phil: And it's a great way to access your games, because you're like, you know, some games, you typically, when you open your computer, you turn on Steam, and if you want to play a game, and that's where you go, but like you've got a complete library and all these other storefronts, and it unifies them, brings them all together in a fantastic way.

Phil: It provides a lot more metadata than Steam and any other platform, and it's absolutely fantastic.

Phil: So it's called LaunchBox.

Phil: You can go to the website, launchboxapp.com.

Phil: I thoroughly recommend it.

Phil: It is a fantastic program.

Tom: I'll definitely have to try that myself.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's free.

Phil: You got nothing to risk.

Phil: And yeah, like I said, I just have to actually go and buy it.

Phil: It's not because I don't want it.

Phil: I just actually go buy the full version because you get so many more features with that as well.

Phil: Again, I've been playing.

Phil: I picked up a few games.

Tom: I will just add, I believe I have done the research.

Tom: I think I built this PC in

Phil: Five years, just like that.

Tom: So at only five years old, I would hope that I would not be upgrading yet.

Phil: What do you think, like seven?

Tom: I like to aim for eight to ten years.

Phil: Yeah, I think I've learned a lesson from my holding officer too long the last time.

Phil: I'm gonna go seven from now on.

Phil: And probably not go the update the graphic card route.

Phil: I'll just get a whole new thing because it has been such a breath of fresh air.

Phil: Having a PC that I can turn on, dedicated to gaming, hooked up to a TV.

Phil: It's still booting, like even though I've added lots, I haven't had lots, it's a dedicated gaming machine, so it hasn't got anything on it other than games.

Phil: And you'd think that it would start to slow down in terms of its boot, but it's still booting like faster, like I'm gonna say seven times faster than an Xbox One.

Phil: And, you know, which is fantastic.

Phil: It makes it really accessible.

Tom: Well, if we do the maths, I think it was about $for everything related to this PC.

Phil: It's pretty good.

Tom: So if it was seven years, that would be $a year.

Tom: I think that's not too egregious.

Phil: No, that's fine.

Phil: I think I lucked out with my PC, correct me if I'm wrong, at like $or something like that.

Tom: All thanks to me.

Phil: All thanks to you.

Phil: And I'm about to drop a grand on a Steam Deck.

Phil: But, and then regret it.

Phil: It is funny how the mind works because I'm like, I have no problem dropping a grand on a Steam Deck, but I'm not going to buy a, what does a PlayStation cost down here?

Tom: Like eight, maybe $$?

Phil: No, it's like eight or nine, eight or bucks.

Phil: I guess the difference is all the content is...

Tom: apparently.

Tom: That's for the disc version.

Phil: And for $more, I'm getting all my games quote for free because I've already bought them, you know.

Phil: So, another game that I recently bought is Bellatro.

Phil: I thought I might talk about that and give you a break for a while.

Phil: This is developed by a solo developer.

Phil: He got help with the music.

Phil: And we talked about it last time around.

Phil: We talked about how people who promote it say, you know, it's a rogue-like deck-building game, just like Slay the Spire, and it's poker-themed, but hey, you don't have to know anything about poker to play it.

Phil: Now, do you know what Bellatro, what the origin of that name is?

Phil: It sounds sort of Spanish, doesn't it?

Tom: Or Italian.

Phil: Or Italian.

Phil: It is, in fact, Italian.

Phil: In ancient Rome, Bellatro was a professional jester, or buffoon, which is, I guess we could have called this the Bellatro podcast, except we're not professionals, we're not getting paid to do it.

Tom: So it's alluding to the Joker card?

Phil: Exactly right.

Phil: And so I downloaded it.

Phil: It is a tiny download and a tiny install, and it's on every absolutely everything right now.

Phil: And in the game, you play your poker hand to score points to defeat bosses that are called blinds, while improving your deck and purchasing Joker cards with a variety of effects, basically multipliers.

Phil: So it looks like the perfect, exploitative, free to play, but then you've got to buy a whole bunch of cards afterwards, except all the cards are free.

Phil: Once you bought it, you bought it.

Phil: And the guy actually has said in his will that after he dies, this game cannot be sold to an entity that will introduce any DLC, because it is so clearly a dopamine-mining game, because you can play this, yes, you can play this and not know anything about poker, and quickly pick up what's a good hand, what's not.

Phil: And the dopamine feed is...

<v SPEAKER_>Can you though?

Phil: No, you can't.

Tom: Because I believe you posted on the VG Press, you cannot.

Phil: You cannot.

Phil: You absolutely cannot.

Phil: This is a poker-themed game where you need to know poker hands.

Phil: And I don't know any poker hands, okay?

Phil: I've played poker a few times in my life, and with no knowledge of poker, I have won every single time, okay?

Phil: Because just by psychology, because I don't know what I'm doing, so I just basically hold out, you know?

Phil: And people are like, well, this guy's got beginner's luck, he's got good cards, you know?

Phil: And I've won, you know?

Phil: Now, it's only happened three times.

Phil: I've only won, like, just over $playing casual poker games.

Phil: Because you can't play that ruse forever.

Phil: At a certain point, you've got to learn how to play the game.

Phil: But the game does have a list at the very start of like eight different things describing different poker hands.

Phil: And if you can get two of a kind and three of a kind and all this other stuff, you slowly start to figure it out.

Phil: And it is a little bit addictive.

Phil: If you actually knew something about poker, I think it would be highly addictive.

Phil: So there's a lot of, you know, it's coming up for game of the year and all this sort of thing.

Phil: And I can see it, but I haven't quite figured out all the nuances of it.

Phil: I can see that it is really good at what it is.

Phil: And it is, and that's the best thing.

Phil: That is the best and only thing I can say.

Phil: Like the person who made this completely understood what they're doing and they've accomplished it at an extremely high level.

Phil: They've made a very simple thing in its appearance, but it's very complex, but it understands exactly the player mentality, human psychology, dopamine, the whole thing.

Phil: God help us if this person decides to make a game.

Phil: Like, if this dude made Tetris and it had DLC that was built into it, God help us all.

Phil: But apparently, you know, based on his actions with his will, he has no intention of using whatever evil knowledge he has of the human psyche for a commercial game.

Tom: What if this is his poker hand ruse and he's bluffing?

Phil: Yeah, it could be.

Phil: He could release another game.

Phil: And you know what?

Phil: I wouldn't be...

Phil: If someone told me, hey, guess what?

Phil: This guy developed Peggle.

Phil: I'd be like, yeah, yeah, okay.

Phil: If this is a sequel to Peggle, I'm good on him, you know.

Phil: So that's what I've been playing, Launchbox and Bellatro.

Phil: Have you been playing anything else?

Tom: Can I just say on Bellatro and poker, I can't think of anything in the modern world that is more banal and less interesting than poker.

Tom: I remember the poker craze on the internet where people were just gushing about watching these fucking smoking alcoholics playing this shitty card game, pulling silly faces as if this was some profound fucking thing.

Tom: And in the millions of words that were written about it, the hours spoken on podcasts, not a single person could in any way articulate why this wasn't the most boring bullshit ever committed to screen.

Tom: Not a single one.

Tom: And some of these people were people who could be eloquent on other subject matters.

Tom: But when it came to this shit, they could not.

Tom: This is surely some sort of mutual mass delusion that was shared a few years ago, right?

Phil: A few years ago?

Phil: Well, let me tell you my personal experience with watching poker, right?

Phil: So, this is, I used to watch like Texas Hold'em competitions on TV, and I watched a lot of it.

Phil: And somehow, poker is still incomprehensible.

Phil: And I think it was probably personality based.

Phil: I think there's a lot of wrestler type, you know, corollaries there.

Phil: And that's got to be it, right?

Tom: So maybe none of these people who claimed to love it so much understood anything about it.

Tom: So they just had to pretend that it was great.

Phil: The only reason I used to watch it was the same reason I occasionally watched the home shopping channel or something like that.

Phil: Like in Australia, we have a very poor version of the home shopping channel.

Phil: But the home shopping channel or the knife channel or something like that of American programming, which you can watch live on YouTube.

Phil: I just find it fascinating.

Phil: I just find it fascinating.

Phil: It's like, I love watching people trying to manipulate dumb people.

Phil: And I can go, oh, well, aren't you being manipulated because you're watching this and you're compelled to watch it?

Phil: Okay, sure.

Phil: I guess.

Phil: I guess it's like bird watching, but for humans.

Phil: Okay, so birds in and of themselves are not, you know, compelling animals.

Phil: But there are people who love watching birds because of their behavior.

Phil: Okay, now I can identify several birds, probably up to different kinds of birds, and I can describe their behavior, but I'm not like hooked on it, right?

Phil: I'm not going to stop and watch a TV show about birds.

Phil: But everyone can understand observing human behavior.

Phil: And I think if you were watching poker on TV, you're like, is this guy going to get over?

Phil: Is that guy going to get over?

Phil: Oh, look at this guy.

Phil: He's an idiot.

Phil: He doesn't know what he's doing.

Phil: Oh, this guy's on tilt.

Phil: And I think, you know, the same is sort of a soap opera type thing as well, I guess, because, you know, and there's also the money component.

Phil: Oh, wow, this guy outsmarted that guy and look at all the money he made.

Phil: You know, yeah.

Phil: So what do you think about my feeble description there?

Tom: I think that people don't write essays about the profundity of the home shopping channel.

Phil: I think people should.

Phil: Have you ever watched the American home shopping channel?

Tom: I don't think I've seen the American one.

Tom: I've seen the Australian version.

Phil: Forget the Australian one.

Phil: The American one is pasted.

Tom: The Australian one plays clips from the American advertising.

Phil: No, just give up.

Tom: What about the knife guy?

Tom: I forgot what sort of knife it was, but he was American.

Tom: He was cutting tomatoes.

Phil: No, no, I'm talking about collectible knives, knives that can do the business.

Phil: This isn't about a knife that can cut celery.

Phil: You know, but anyway...

Tom: I thought about a knife that can cut...

Phil: Yeah, throats.

Phil: So this home shopping channel in the US is fantastically paced, acted.

Phil: It's full of coked up people at three o'clock in the morning, trying to say...

Tom: It's the guy who could filet the filet.

Tom: That's the thing I'm thinking of.

<v SPEAKER_>No, that's not...

<v SPEAKER_>Are you familiar with that?

Phil: Yeah, I am familiar.

Phil: That's not what I'm talking about.

Tom: That's American though, because he says filet.

Tom: So that's definitely American.

Phil: What do you guys say?

Tom: Filet.

Phil: Oh, Jesus.

Phil: Ah, jeez.

Phil: Why'd you have to say that, Homer?

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Have you been playing a game?

Tom: No, we're not moving on from poker yet.

Tom: What?

Tom: Because my theory isn't finished here.

Phil: Alright, you're going to declare G-hard on poker, apparently.

Tom: Yeah, but I think the reason, perhaps the reason for this mass delusion, is it's inserted into so many sitcoms and soap operas in America.

Tom: It's the default, here's we're going to get a bunch of characters to sit around doing nothing as a filler segment, so that we can fill up some space with a shot of these people drinking and playing poker.

Tom: For no other reason that we haven't come up with enough stuff to fill up the rest of the episode with anything meaningful.

Phil: Well, what's a highfalutin intellectual like you watching American sitcoms for?

Phil: That's not for you.

Phil: And soap operas?

Phil: What soap opera is still on?

Phil: Come on!

Tom: But, I mean, is that not the case?

Tom: That's the role of poker in TV shows, isn't it?

Phil: Ah, poker in TV shows.

Phil: I think it's a matching of wits.

Tom: But it's not.

Tom: Because if they have something like that, like take a Stranger Things D&D segments, and I'm not a fan of Stranger Things, but I believe you are.

Tom: But I think it's an equivalent sort of thing here, where you get a bunch of characters together to do something together.

Tom: In the case of Stranger Things, they sort of tie it to the broader theme of the show or whatever's happening in the episode, right?

Phil: No, it's pivotal.

Phil: The whole thing happens because they're playing a game that unlocks this mythical world in real life.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: Whereas with the poker in TV shows, that isn't the case.

Phil: Strangely enough, by playing poker, they don't unlock some mythical demonic poker world.

Tom: But they should be unlocking something about the characters, right?

Phil: Yeah, in a sitcom?

Tom: It should be a character developing exercise.

Phil: Oh, especially in these American sitcoms and soap operas.

Phil: You so adore.

Tom: Correct.

Tom: But for the most part, it's literally just filler.

Tom: And if it's not filler, they will just go to dialogue in the game that has nothing to do with how the game is unfolding.

Phil: Okay, so let me, literary genius, Tom Towers, explain to me what part of soap opera isn't filler.

Phil: Have you ever watched Young and the Restless or Days in Your Lives?

Phil: Or Bold and the Beautiful?

Phil: Every...

Phil: I love watching them as well, or at least I used to when I was a kid.

Phil: Every story basically progresses like one millimeter.

Phil: Like, every hour of a show progresses a story one millimeter.

Phil: Like, it doesn't...

Tom: So to have filler in something that progresses one millimeter is even worse, is it not?

Phil: Well, the filler is how they get through minutes and not relay any story.

Tom: But forget about soap operas, because that's a fair point, right?

Tom: But my point still stands though, right?

Tom: We've got this mass delusion that has been programmed into people through poker being a part of American sitcoms and soap operas.

Tom: So that when they're watching a show that is equally brain dead and banal and uninteresting, where equally nothing happens, they're able to watch it and produce these reams of articles, supposedly explaining their fascination with these endlessly profound and interesting poker matches, yet they're not actually able to articulate why they find it interesting.

Tom: So my point stands, I was saying, that's part of the programming that has led to poker being something people can watch on TV.

Phil: Your point is stated, I will definitely agree with that.

Phil: I don't know if your point stands.

Phil: I'm going to say that watching someone play poker is an examination of the human experience I didn't get any of that from anything anyone has said about poker on TV.

Phil: Well, that's because they're not as eloquent as I, Mr.

Phil: Phil Fogg.

Tom: And I'm going to add further to this point, just to demonstrate that this isn't some half-witted, off-the-cuff improvised theory.

Tom: I know where this all came from.

Phil: Oh, you do?

Tom: Do you know what the origin of poker as dramatic filler is, in the American dramatic tradition?

Tom: Where does it come from?

Phil: Mark Twain?

Tom: No.

Phil: That's my only guess.

Tom: No, it comes from a streetcar named Desire.

Phil: Okay, which I have not observed, because it looked like crap.

Tom: It's better than Bellatro.

Tom: I'll say that much.

Tom: You haven't played it!

<v SPEAKER_>I don't need to play it.

<v SPEAKER_>That's what I've learned from this whole poker-mass delusion.

Tom: I do not need to play Bellatro.

Phil: What do the intellectuals always say about something that they want to look down on?

Phil: I don't need to watch The Simpsons.

Phil: I know it's inferior.

Phil: I don't need to play Bellatro.

<v SPEAKER_>I've watched a streetcar named Desire.

Phil: Yeah, where's a video game adaption of that, by the way?

Tom: I think there isn't.

Phil: Okay, we are still talking about it.

Tom: Unfortunately.

Phil: We are still talking about it.

Tom: Maybe Crazy Taxi?

Phil: Crazy Taxi?

Tom: That's got streetcars in it.

Phil: We are still talking about video games.

Tom: Are we going to roll a dive destiny for a streetcar named Desire?

Phil: Well, I haven't played it yet.

Phil: And you're not going to make me play it.

Tom: If you read a streetcar named Desire, I will play Bellatro.

Phil: Okay, have you watched Taxi Driver with Al Pacino?

Tom: Yes, I have.

Phil: Have you watched Dog Days Afternoon with Al Pacino?

Tom: Unfortunately not.

Phil: Watch it.

Phil: Have you watched Kings of Comedy or King of Comedy?

Tom: No, I haven't.

Phil: Oh, you got to see that.

Phil: That's a good one.

Phil: It's a good little couplet.

Phil: If you watch King of Comedy and Dog Days Afternoon.

Phil: Really good.

Phil: I will not score Bellatro.

Phil: I can score...

Tom: Can you score Poker on TV?

Phil: What was your proposition?

Phil: Street Card Name Desire?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Okay, go ahead.

Tom: If you watch the film or read the book, I will play Bellatro.

Tom: Okay.

Tom: And you will return to the topic.

Phil: Okay, we'll return to the topic then with no score.

Phil: Now, I know another game you've been playing is a diamond in the rough called Crimson Diamond, developed by a solo developer, Julie Minamata, which sounds Japanese, but I've never heard Minamata.

Tom: I believe she's Canadian.

Phil: Anyway, it's available on Mac and Windows, just released in August.

Phil: It's an adventure game, a single player, and it's a mystery adventure game that features a text parser requiring players to solve a mystery through inputting instructions.

Phil: Graphically, it has an EGA color palette.

Phil: Now, most people won't know what that looks like, but it's basically like a, in between a and a probably a actually, processor.

Phil: And it's inspired by games like The Colonel's Bequest.

Phil: The reception of the game has been mostly positive, or positive actually, completely, with reviewers placing it as a strong homage to games of the late s.

Phil: But saying that some puzzle solutions could be too challenging, which I say, how can you say, this is a great homage to games of the late s, but then say, oh, but that's a bad thing because the puzzles are too challenging.

Phil: I mean, they're one and the same.

Tom: I think the difficulty of the puzzles isn't even close to what you would expect from that era of adventure game.

Phil: The game again is called Crimson Diamond.

Phil: So what's your impressions of it?

Tom: I was disappointed that it had nothing to do with Blood Diamonds, which I thought might have been an illusion of the title, but it was not.

Phil: So is it about the theft of a Ruby type diamond?

Tom: No.

Tom: So you're playing as a, it says in the story description, sorry, game description that it's an amateur geologist, but I don't know if she was an amateur or not, given that she was, it depends on how you define amateur.

Tom: I think if you read amateur geologist, the thing you have in mind is someone who is a hobbyist, right?

Phil: Someone who's not getting paid for a great passion they have.

Phil: They may have more knowledge than a professional, they're just not getting paid for it.

Tom: So you think it comes down to money.

Tom: I was thinking to feel like geology, where there isn't necessarily a huge amount of paid work going around.

Tom: I'll be thinking more along the lines of hobbyist as opposed to someone who might be working with the professionalized or semi-professionalized geologist scene.

Tom: Yeah, that would be my interpretation.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Yeah, that's a good interpretation.

Tom: But it begins with her being involved in a university geology program, and she gets sent off to investigate the possible discovery of diamonds at a remote Canadian setting.

Tom: And she travels by train.

Tom: On the train, someone steals her luggage, and they end up stranded at this lodge in the middle of nowhere where there are possibly diamonds, because the bridge is mysteriously destroyed.

Tom: And that's essentially the beginning of the game and the setting.

Tom: And it's set during, I think, at the beginning or the lead up to the First World War.

Tom: So it's an interesting setting.

Tom: And I found, I think, the sense of humour was probably a highlight of the game, because it is very deadpan, and the jokes are not really played up.

Tom: I assume they're intentional, because there is a whimsical feeling to a lot of the game play, sorry, a lot of the story.

Tom: But for example, once you're in the lodge, you immediately just start eavesdropping on everyone for seemingly no reason, and investigating everything in a very obnoxious and forthright manner.

Tom: Go on.

Phil: Yeah, so you play as a female protagonist, is essentially listening in to things and trying to figure out clues to solve the mystery.

Tom: Yep, exactly.

Phil: Okay.

Tom: Before a mystery has even really developed.

Tom: So just the moment you end up in the lodge, and nothing suspicious other than your luggage having been stolen on the train, not at the lodge, you're already enticed to begin eavesdropping on people.

Phil: How does this compare and contrast with the video game that you talked about earlier this year, the one where you're a hotel maid that likes snooping through people's personal possessions, and then comes across a strange mystery?

Tom: I think I, in terms of gameplay, I definitely enjoyed this game more.

Tom: I think there were things about the narrative of the other game that were interesting, but probably I enjoyed the narrative in this one as well, just because of how I think more weird and silly it was here.

Phil: It seems whimsical.

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: Based on the graphics, you don't remember the name of the hotel-made snooping game though, do you?

Tom: I think, is it This Bed We Made?

Phil: This Bed We Made is exactly the name of it.

Phil: So it's similar in some ways.

Phil: I did say compare and contrast.

Tom: It's similar in that you're playing a nosy female protagonist in a place where people stay.

Phil: Okay, so you're into nosy female protagonists.

Tom: Depends on the type of nose.

Tom: Roman nose, maybe.

Phil: Okay, well, the nose really depends on the nose.

Phil: Seems sort of pronounced and like beak-like in this game, I'd say.

Tom: Well, who doesn't love a beaky nose?

Phil: Yeah, well, you know, I think it's kind of cute.

Phil: So it's a pert little beaky nose that this character has.

Tom: And one of the characters in the game is a bird watcher.

Tom: I don't know if that's a reference or not.

Phil: Oh, a twitcher.

Phil: Okay, so how far into this game are you?

Tom: I've completed it.

Phil: Oh, really?

Phil: Now, again, I'm always interested in the audio.

Phil: It's got EGA-based graphics.

Phil: Do they mix it up and have, like, you know, modern musical or sound effect capabilities?

Tom: The music is very synth-heavy and definitely very much of the era.

Phil: Oh, really?

Tom: Or at least referencing it.

Tom: I mean, it's more complex in terms of, I think, the number of notes and things you could use in the era.

Tom: There's certainly some semi-orchestral feeling moments, but it's all very synth-heavy.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, I lived through these times, so I can tell you in the EGA era, there was no sound cards yet.

Phil: Okay?

Phil: So there was no sound blasters or anything else.

Phil: So you were limited to beeps and white noise, and that sort of thing.

Phil: So, yeah, obviously they're using modern music that evokes an earlier age, but not...

Phil: Like, seriously, man, it was just beeps and boops back then.

Phil: So...

Tom: Now, this is definitely more modern than that.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Anything else to say on it before you give it a score?

Tom: Well, we should say the gameplay, of course, is not point-and-click, it is text-based.

Tom: You do move around with the mouse, but if you want the protagonist to do anything, you've got to type out a command for her, which she will then follow.

Tom: And this works, for the most part, pretty well.

Tom: There were a few occasions where it does not work, though.

Phil: So, with this text parser, you could say, go to the window.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: And, like, if a window was there...

Tom: What you would normally do is you would move to the window and say, look at window.

Tom: Or you could just type, look at window, and if there's only one window, then she'll go and look at it.

Tom: But if there's two windows, you need to write down which one to go and look at, or move close to the one you want her to look at.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So, if you wrote, be mean to male character...

Tom: Sorry, what was that?

Phil: Be mean to...

Phil: If you were to...

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Be mean to main character.

Tom: I think with that command, she would probably say she wouldn't do it.

Phil: Let me just do that again.

Phil: So, if you were to say, be mean to male character, or be kind to female character, would anything happen?

Tom: It will probably say that isn't an acceptable command.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: And obviously, you're not going to say...

Phil: Like in these adventure games of the era, you could say, pick up stick.

Phil: And it would say, you can't pick up stick, or you have stick.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Is that...

Phil: I don't think this game would do that sort of thing though, would it?

Tom: Yep, it does.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: So, give us an example.

Tom: So, if you want to open, say...

Tom: No, that's not an example.

Tom: Let's say, if you do want to pick up something, right?

Tom: That there's no reason for the character to pick up, in theory, then it will say, there's no reason for you to pick that up or something on those lines.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So, it's like how the old games used to do it.

Tom: Yep, exactly.

Tom: All right.

Phil: Anything else for this one?

Tom: Well, just as I was saying, so, for the most part, that works very well, but there are a few instances I came across where it does not work as it should.

Tom: So, at one point, you're investigating a body, and they're wearing some clothes.

Tom: And I told the character to look in the character's pockets.

Tom: So, she looks in the pockets, doesn't comment on anything being in there.

Tom: If you tell her to look at the clothes, it comments that there's keys in the pocket.

Tom: But if you look at the pockets, there are no keys in there, apparently.

Phil: Poor.

Tom: So, that's only a few occasions.

Tom: For the majority of the time, it all works as you would expect to.

Tom: But the few occasions where it doesn't is very frustrating.

Phil: Well, that's adventure games, really, isn't it?

Phil: I mean, there are limitations to what they can do, but...

Tom: I think adventure games don't necessarily have issues like that.

Tom: And I think a text password doesn't have an issue like that either.

Tom: I think you can get around that.

Tom: I think in adventure games as well, it's less frustrating because if you, in most of them these days anyway, if you right click on something, it will give you a list of all the options indicating how you can interact with something.

Tom: So even if the logical thing doesn't actually work as it should, you can just randomly go through all of them.

Tom: Whereas here, you have to go on a specific thing which is actually logical, but you have to produce that yourself as opposed to finding it through a limited number of options available to you.

Phil: How long did it take to finish this game?

Tom: Not too long, maybe about four or five hours.

Phil: Oh, okay, it's available on Steam, I'm assuming.

Tom: Correct, I think it is $new.

Phil: Okay, so the name of the game is Crimson Diamond.

Phil: This week...

Tom: We're not going to move on from it yet.

Tom: Oh.

Tom: No, you just want to get rid of this game.

Tom: I can feel it.

Phil: Oh, you don't seem particularly, you know, you don't have, you know, like you're saying mostly favorable things about it, but it doesn't seem particularly compelling.

Phil: Like I don't, like sometimes you talk about a game, I'm like, okay, I've got to go play it.

Phil: I don't care what it costs.

Phil: I got to go do it.

Phil: You don't seem to be particularly compelling on this game for whatever reason.

Tom: Well, maybe we need to continue because I might not be at the more compelling parts of it yet.

Phil: Okay.

Tom: So I think the other thing that stands out about it is the use of the setting.

Tom: As I've said, it's set in the lead up to the first world war and it weaves in themes from the looming coming war into the story in, I think, a satisfying way that adds a little bit more interest to it.

Tom: The story, as I said, is at times often very humorous but it's also reasonably serious and mature in its themes and really captures the feeling of something like Agatha Christie or it also brings to mind other games like The Last Express that made interesting use of a similar setting.

Tom: And I think overall, if you enjoy adventure games, it ends up being, once you get used to how the interface works and perhaps that sometimes it's not going to work as it should, if you can get over that, I think it ends up being a really engrossing new modern take on a text-passer adventure game.

Tom: My experience in playing text-based ones, they usually have issues in terms of consistency.

Tom: But I have less experience with them than I do point-and-click adventure games.

Tom: So maybe in terms of old ones, that was an issue with me.

Tom: In this case, I can say that it's definitely an issue with the game.

Tom: But as I said, it's only in a few particular moments.

Tom: But I actually enjoyed it a lot.

Tom: The other thing that stands out about it as well is the charmingness of the graphics.

Tom: When it's zoomed out, the animation of the characters is very rudimentary, but they all have their own unique way of moving, and the spirit of the character is captured.

Tom: When it zooms in with more detailed portraits of the character, you get more detail and you get more expressions of the characters, which greatly add to the filling of the dialogue as you're reading it, but it manages in the zoomed out sections to maintain the spirit of the character, which I think is to the credit of the developer, who I believe also did the artwork for the game as well.

Phil: Yeah, I can tell from the screen shots of it, this was lovingly attended to.

Phil: It's got a comical and thoughtful depiction.

Phil: It's really...

Phil: The artist that did this understands human faces certainly in a very good way.

Tom: So was that a little bit more enthused?

Phil: Yeah, certainly.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I'm still hanging up on the frustration level, though.

Phil: Like, is this game...

Phil: Is it frustrating or is it, you know, just a couple of little hitches along the way?

Tom: I would say it's a couple of little hitches along the way.

Tom: The one other interesting thing about it, I will add, is at the end of the game, which I thought was a great way to end a detective story, you're interviewed by the police, and you also have an internal monologue interview, where you've got to answer a series of questions based on your investigations as to what you've discovered, which affects how the game ends, which I thought was a great touch.

Tom: My only criticism of it was, there's ways to figure out what's going on without doing the required gameplay thing to allow you to answer the question correctly, which I thought was questionable.

Tom: I think even if you didn't do the correct thing in terms of gameplay that triggered you to be able to answer the question correctly, the game should have the faith in you that you figured this out on your own through the other clues that were already there without needing to do that for it to accept your correct answer as being correct.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, I can see how that would be a challenge.

Tom: But, overall, I think that was a great touch, and I think it makes it stand out as well from a lot of crime fiction-inspired detective adventure games that I've played.

Phil: One thing that interests me is how does a game like this, developed by a single developer in Canada, how does this rise to discoverability?

Phil: How do you know about it?

Phil: How do people know about it?

Phil: How has this game got a Wikipedia page?

Phil: You know?

Tom: I know about it because a friend told me about it.

Phil: Right.

Phil: So something is happening.

Tom: And I bought it for him for his birthday and subsequently played it on his Steam account.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: So by buying it for him, you mean?

Tom: He hasn't yet to play it.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So you bought it for yourself.

Phil: He has no interest in it.

Phil: Is there anything less fulfilling that when you gift a game to someone on Steam and they never actually play it, or even the knowledge that you sent them to them?

Phil: I've gifted kind words.

Tom: It depends on if you play it yourself or not.

Phil: I've gifted kind words of great video game to several people.

Phil: And you know, some people never actually like, well, they never get back to you.

Phil: Like you'd think you go, oh, hey, thanks, man.

Tom: But you think that at least say thanks.

Phil: I know.

Phil: And well, Gargan...

Tom: Do you want to name and shame?

Phil: No, I don't.

Phil: I don't.

Phil: No.

Tom: Well, you just did with one at least.

Tom: Gargan.

Phil: No, no, no, no.

Phil: Gargan, former host of the, what was it called?

Phil: Beginners Try to Make a Podcast.

Phil: What was it called?

Tom: Endless Backlog.

Phil: Endless Backlog.

Phil: And he actually, I was on the reverse end of it, because he gifted me Cities Skylines, and I just hadn't been on Steam because of whatever was going on in my life.

Phil: And I didn't know he had gifted it to me until you told me, because obviously he was bitching about it.

Phil: And then by the time I went online, it had already timed out sort of thing.

Phil: So I guess, you know, I can't be too critical when I've done it to people myself.

Phil: If you wish...

Tom: Just karma catching up.

Phil: If you wish to gift a game to me, your host, fellow host of The Game Under Podcast, my...

Phil: You can go to Game Under Phil on Steam.

Phil: You can gift me all you want.

Phil: Game Under Phil on Steam.

Phil: And I will acknowledge it here on the show and through direct message.

Phil: How's that?

Tom: I don't think you'll acknowledge it.

Tom: You won't even notice.

Phil: Yeah, well, I'm on Steam every day now.

Phil: But fast forward two weeks from now when I've been gifted homosexual porn games.

Phil: So, and trying to explain to my wife.

Phil: Okay, score?

Tom: I think it's time to roll the die, Jesse.

Phil: Okay, I'll get the minifig ready.

Tom: Also gets a two out of

Phil: Okay, here's a minifig coming down.

Tom: Two for two so far.

Phil: Minifig coming down the pike.

Phil: And it gives it a out of

Tom: So we've got a bit of a discrepancy this time.

Phil: Yeah, which one do you think is closer to the mark?

Tom: Well, the Die of Destiny is the official score.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: And always has to be.

Phil: But the minifig is there to correct your impression.

Phil: So I think that sounded more like a to to me.

Tom: Well, the minifig is your impressions of my impressions.

Phil: It's now time to close out the podcast.

Phil: But before we do that, we've got Phil's questions for Tom from other people's podcasts.

Phil: Madison writes, now you're going to have to listen carefully.

Phil: What is your favorite gaming experience with a game that was outside your normal comfort zone?

Tom: So just a game that I would not normally play.

Phil: You played a game that you wouldn't normally play, and you're like, wow, this is fantastic.

Phil: If you need time to think, I will give a couple of examples from my own experience.

Tom: It's hard to answer, because I'm happy to play anything and interested in playing anything.

Phil: Oh, come on.

Phil: There's got to be some game genres that are completely outside your comfort zone.

Tom: Here's an answer for you.

Tom: As per our poker discussion earlier, I'm not a fan of digital versions of card games or board games.

Tom: So I would say two examples would be Solitaire, the default Windows game and Cyberpunk is it?

Tom: Which is based on a board game.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So that's outside of your comfort zone.

Phil: That's the best you can come up with?

Tom: That's the best I can come up with.

Phil: Oh, my God.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: I just looked up an example for my own life.

Phil: And apparently this game is selling for $on eBay.

Phil: So, tower building games.

Phil: I didn't even know what a tower building game was.

Phil: And once it was described to me, I was like, I'd never play that.

Phil: But one of my favorite games of all time is Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slime, which is a fantastic tower building game for DS.

Phil: Another experience would be real time strategies.

Phil: Real time strategies, as regular listeners know, drive me up the wall.

Phil: I can't handle the stress of it.

Phil: But I love playing Halo Wars.

Phil: And I also enjoyed, at least tolerated and beat, what was the guys that did Psychonauts?

Phil: Something, Zone?

Tom: Double Fine.

Phil: Double Fine, right.

Phil: Double Fine's heavy metal game, which was called?

Tom: Full Throttle.

Phil: Full?

Phil: No, not Full Throttle.

Tom: That's the original one.

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: So, but basically, their real time strategy game, which was the one with Jack Black in it.

Phil: That was a game completely outside my comfort zone that I can-

Tom: Brutal Legend.

Phil: Brutal Legend.

Phil: There you go.

Phil: Hey, we can't have a game under podcast where I don't forget a game I'm trying to talk about, and you don't talk about a game that you played at someone else's house.

Phil: And the other one would be Slay the Spire.

Phil: It's a rogue-like deck-builder game.

Phil: I hate rogue-likes.

Phil: I like progression in my games.

Phil: I don't like not being able to progress.

Phil: But it's actually a rogue-lite because you do get to keep some of your progression from run to run.

Phil: So those are examples from my world.

Phil: Have you come up with anything else from your world?

Tom: I can give you a few more.

Tom: I think turn-based strategy games I'm not that interested in.

Phil: Really?

Tom: Yep, but there's a few that I've enjoyed a lot.

Tom: One of them is Jagged Alliance

Phil: Okay.

Tom: Which I think is one of the best strategy games ever made.

Tom: There was a turn-based Army Men game that was surprisingly good.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: The Commandoes series and Odium.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Remind me again the Commandoes series.

Tom: You don't know the Commandoes series?

Phil: No.

Phil: Just remind me.

Tom: They're turn-based strategy games where you're playing as, I think, special forces, I think mainly British in the Second World War.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: Hence, they're Commandoes.

Phil: And what was the other one?

Phil: Odium?

Tom: The other one, I got the name wrong, I think.

Tom: It's Gorky was what I meant to say.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: I've heard of that.

Tom: No.

Tom: It's got two names.

Tom: It is known both as Odium and Gorky

Phil: And what sort of game is that?

Tom: That is also a turn-based strategy game.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So both of us have a commonality in that we don't like, we're not drawn particularly to strategy games.

Tom: Well, I like RTSs.

Tom: I like real-time strategy games.

Tom: But turn-based, I don't enjoy as much.

Tom: Although now that I'm coming up with so many examples, I also enjoy Final Fantasy Tactics.

Tom: So maybe I do like turn-based strategy games.

Phil: See, I like turn-based strategy games because you can take your time to figure out what you're doing.

Phil: Real-time strategy games like Brutal Legend and Halo Wars drive me nuts because if you can't see what's happening on the screen and you're rushing around, oh my god, it's so stressful.

Tom: That's what I enjoy.

Tom: If they're turn-based, I just get annoyed at how slow it is.

Tom: And it takes so long for you to figure out if what you're doing is right or wrong or not.

Tom: And there's little room for improvisation like there is in an RTS.

Phil: I think why I don't like real-time strategy is because all of the jobs I've ever had, and I'm still working gainfully, are real-time strategies.

Phil: And it's, you know, so I already get that level of stress from just, okay, what's happening now?

Phil: How do I react?

Phil: What's happening now?

Phil: How do I react?

Phil: Whereas term-based strategies I can deal with.

Phil: Still not a favorite genre of mine, but yeah, like I don't think too many flight controllers go home, air traffic flight controllers go home and play air traffic flight controller games.

Phil: You know, they're probably playing different kinds of things, like Bellatro.

Tom: And I've got one more example.

Tom: I think the city building genre.

Tom: I've never enjoyed Sim City or Theme Park very much, or most games like that, but Caesar I played a lot and greatly enjoyed.

Phil: What was Caesar ?

Tom: You don't know Caesar ?

Tom: No, man.

Tom: Caesar is a city building game.

Tom: Where you're building a Roman city.

Phil: Is it old?

Tom: It's very old.

Tom: I think it's from

Phil: Whoa, okay.

Phil: So kind of around the same time that The Castles was around as well, which is a similar type of thing.

Phil: Okay, well, that was a good question.

Phil: Thank you, Madison.

Phil: And with that, we'll close out the show.

Phil: Thanks for listening to The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: We've been doing this since

Phil: So there's a lot of resources covering games from that time to now on our website at gameunder.net.

Phil: If you'd like to see...

Tom: That means I've been through two whole PCs in that period of time.

Phil: At least.

Phil: If you'd like to submit a question, use our comment section from our homepage.

Phil: You don't have to log in and register and all that sort of thing.

Phil: And we welcome any comments you have.

Phil: Thank you again for listening to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I'm Phil Fogg.

Tom: I'm Tom Towers.

Phil: Thanks for listening.