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0:00:23 Criteria for Top 100 Retro Games List
0:03:24 Chapter Markers!
0:03:49 "Bridge Games" + Metroid Prime 4
0:08:46 NEWS - PlayStation Cutting PS2 Funding
0:11:37 Commentary The State of VR
0:18:05 NEWS - Max Booty on Tango Closure
0:20:58 NEWS - Banana Game is not a Scam?
0:27:35 Phil's New Gaming PC Review
0:42:12 What We're Playing - This Bed We've Made and discussions of Sunset, Arcade Paradise and Dave the Diver
0:56:50 What We're Playing - Aperture Desk Job and discussion about Valve
1:03:00 E-mail - What ever happened to car combat games?
Transcript
Tom: Hello and welcome to Episode of The Game Under Podcast. I am Tom Towers, and I'm joined by Phil Fogg, my ever-present co-host.
Phil: Hello, Philius P.
Phil: Fogg here, but you can call me Phil.
Phil: You know, in the last episode, we had a lot of fun going over Retro Gamers Magazine, greatest retro games of all time, and we spent probably seven and a half minutes trying to figure out what the criteria was, like what platforms were included and what weren't, because there were some PlayStation games, but not all of them.
Phil: So I went back and I found the magazine, and this is what it says.
Phil: This will clarify everything.
Phil: You ready?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: So what, may you ask, qualifies as a retro game for this particular list?
Phil: Basically, the rules from issue allowed for any PC games released in and before and any console games from the PlayStation era.
Phil: So Xbox, GameCube, PlayStation and Nintendo's Game Boy Advance were all eligible, along with any home computers, consoles, handhelds and arcade games before that.
Phil: Which doesn't explain anything at all, because it says, well, the rules from issue allowed for PC games released.
Phil: Okay, fine.
Phil: Okay, so now I'm like thinking, I've got all of these magazines.
Phil: So now I've go find episode issue
Phil: I go through there's no list.
Phil: And I'm thinking, oh, they must have done a list before.
Phil: And now they're doing a list again.
Phil: It's completely cryptic.
Phil: And I eventually find that where they're stating what their rules will be for this competition.
Phil: And it basically says, I had to read it twice, but any game systems would be eligible from the start of when Retro Game Magazine started publishing, which is which is the dumbest cutoff of all time.
Phil: We started publishing our magazine in therefore any game before qualifies for retro.
Tom: So this was the real reason.
Phil: That's the real reason.
Phil: It wasn't even a clean cutoff, you know.
Tom: So that's why they invented a lie.
Phil: That's it.
Tom: I'm just curious as to why they even mentioned the issue where you would find the real reason if they were gonna lie about it.
Phil: Just tell us, just tell us in, you made the list.
Phil: Just it's one sentence.
Phil: They spent more time saying go back to issue than if it would have just said any game eligible before our first issue in is eligible for the list.
Phil: So anyway, I'm glad I got to the bottom of it because it's been bugging me since our last episode.
Tom: I will say that the fact that they reference the issue where they had a totally different reason to the one that they have now and stated it was the same reason is by far the most interesting and entertaining part of that entire list.
Phil: Absolutely.
Phil: So go back and listen to episode if you haven't already.
Phil: It's a fantastic segment.
Phil: And I do wanna mention that we do have chapter markers in all of our podcasts.
Phil: So if you're using a compatible podcast listening device and you don't like what we're talking about right now, you can skip forward to a segment that does interest you.
Phil: Or if you wanna go back and find something that's a good use for it as well.
Tom: Before we move on, can we just say that with that in mind, that's probably the second best game related list of all time.
Tom: I can't think of another game list other than Game Under's incredible Games of the Decade list that had anything positive in it whatsoever.
Phil: Yeah, well, I was surprised that you, and you know, this is in the news this week, that you rated Metroid Prime.
Phil: Where do you rate Metroid Prime again?
Tom: The original is a contender for greatest game of all time.
Phil: This is, yeah, and this is something that we haven't talked about in the, whatever many years we've been doing this show, I think, which was really surprising to me.
Phil: So how did you take the Metroid Prime news from the Nintendo Direct last week?
Tom: What was the Metroid Prime news?
Phil: Well, basically, the prior information was that it was just a logo, and that was a few years ago, and then Nintendo came out and said, look, a Japanese developer was working on it for them, and they basically, in a very un-Nintendo-like fashion, said this Japanese developer isn't getting it, it's not working, it's not gelling, and that's when they handed it back to Retro, which is, I believe, a Texas-based developer, and they're the ones that did Metroid Prime.
Phil: Now, who knows how many of the original developers or people involved with the game are still with Retro after all these years.
Phil: Because Retro's been doing the Donkey Kong Country games and little much else.
Phil: They handed it over to them, so it's just been basically in development hell, and it's kind of just been an ongoing joke because they announced it three or four years ago and all we've got to show for it is a logo.
Tom: I think it was originally announced seven years ago.
Phil: Seven, wow.
Phil: Okay, that fits with the timeline of the Switch.
Phil: And so they basically have said, they showed gameplay at the Nintendo Direct and didn't say, well, they said it's coming out next year.
Phil: And so people don't know if it's gonna be a launch for the new Switch, if it's gonna be a Bridge Game, between the Switch and the Switch like they've done in the last couple of console releases.
Tom: It certainly looks like a Switch Game to me.
Phil: Yeah, and that's what Digital Foundry did a big bright up analysis on.
Tom: They apparently needed, IGN needed tech experts.
Phil: Tech experts.
Tom: To say a Switch Game looks like a Switch Game.
Phil: Switch Game.
Phil: But they might just be showing the Switch version.
Phil: But then I thought, what is a, what is a Bridge Game if the Switch is backwards compatible?
Phil: Like what does that actually mean?
Phil: Right?
Phil: Because if the Switch is backwards compatible, when you release the game, what are you gonna do?
Phil: It's not like in the, on the Wii U or on the Switch where they released Twilight Princess, and then, you know, they had a Wii U version and they had the Switch version.
Phil: If the Switch is backwards compatible, why you can't do a Bridge Game because people will just buy one version or the other.
Tom: Well, they did with the PS
Tom: There were a lot of, not a lot, but a reasonable number of games where there was a PSand a PSversion.
Tom: So I would suspect if there were improvements available on the Switch that that might be what they would do.
Tom: But what if, in fact, it is a Switch game and the Switch essentially produces graphics that looks like the Switch?
Phil: Well, that would be extremely disappointing, obviously, because the whole point of a Switch is upgraded graphics.
Phil: But, you know, I mean, they could release it, they could release a Switch version, and then they could release a Switch version.
Phil: And so that they're taking advantage of the current install base, or also providing a new game for people who have taken the plunge with the new console.
Phil: I think in that way, you could still have a Bridge game.
Phil: And that way, when the people who bought it for Switch upgrade to Switch now it still works on the new Switch
Phil: So there's no reason for, because it could forestall sales if you were a Switch owner, and then they're like, oh, well, it could cause people to hold off and go, oh, well, I'll just wait until I get a Switch then I'll buy it.
Phil: So if you're releasing a lower res version on the Switch, people are still gonna buy it with the confidence that they can use it on their Switch when they do finally go and upgrade.
Phil: Because the whole point of a Bridge game is to maximize sales on the basis of your existing install base.
Tom: Yeah, of course.
Phil: Okay, so somehow we drifted into the news.
Phil: I guess the first story is, well, the first story is a report that PlayStation is cutting PlayStation VRfunding.
Phil: And the credit for this goes to androidcentral.com.
Phil: The PlayStation VRhas been a pretty good VR headset.
Phil: It's been widely accepted by a lot of people in terms of its build quality and its improvements.
Phil: The controllers and the headset have been receiving, you know, generally good praise.
Phil: There are over games currently available for it with call outs like Horizon Call of the Mountain, Gran Turismo is the killer app for it.
Phil: And then Resident Evil Village and the REremake has also, you know, gotten attention.
Phil: Well, sources close to Android Central has revealed that Sony is making deep cuts to funding for VR games.
Phil: And they said that there would be very few opportunities for VR game development at Sony going forward.
Phil: Another source said that there are only two PlayStation VR games that are in development at Sony currently.
Phil: Now, you'll remember back in March, there was a report that Sony had stopped production of the PS VRbecause of overstocked.
Phil: They had too much inventory that they hadn't sold.
Phil: And then another indication that Sony was packing it in was that they announced in August that they're going to release a PC adapter for about bucks US that will enable you to use your PlayStation VRheadset on a PC and have full access to full compatibility with Steam's lineup of VR games.
Tom: Only Steam games or other PC VR games?
Phil: Well, they're saying that it will work with all of Steam's VR games.
Phil: So I'm sure that it will have broader compatibility as people muck around with it and work with it.
Phil: I don't think that they've got an exclusive deal or anything.
Phil: They're just saying, well, the work's already been done with Steam VR, so you can have confidence buying this thing for your PC that it will work with all of those games.
Phil: I think it would only be natural to assume that they will have broader compatibility.
Phil: People muck around with it and there's no reason for them to block it out.
Phil: So it looks like they developed this really great product.
Phil: Someone, somewhere, Sony changed their mind on it and they dumped it, basically.
Phil: I mean, the PC adapter could be seen as trying to broaden the market for their VR offerings, but really it's not.
Phil: I mean, it looks to me like they've made a cheap adapter just to move the units that they've got excess stock of.
Tom: I was surprised to begin with that they even made a second one.
Phil: Oh, I was too.
Phil: And they did a fantastic job.
Phil: That's the issue.
Phil: But strategically, I guess, you know, and this is a broader conversation, but is VR marginalized to such an extent at this point, where at the point where they made the decision to do the VRby the time they finished it and got it out, the, what do you say, the bloom had come off the rose of virtual reality.
Tom: I think at this stage, still the only hope for VR remains Facebook, because I think Zuckerberg has some personal fixation on it.
Tom: I don't know if they're still heading in the direction of wanting to invent this whole metaverse concept that they had, but I think that's the only realistic hope that VR has at this stage.
Phil: Well, I think we reported it, or perhaps it was while you were aboard, I reported that they're losing over a billion dollars a month.
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
Phil: On developing it because of his sick obsession with this stuff.
Phil: I mean, you've got a Quest right?
Phil: What is your experience?
Phil: You were super impressed with it when you got it.
Phil: I mean, do you still use it?
Phil: Are you still just as enthusiastic about it?
Tom: I was still using it until the strap broke.
Phil: Oh, yeah.
Phil: I think you described the strap as being the most overpriced but undervalued.
Tom: Well, that broke.
Tom: Yeah, the Elite strap was a superior version of the strap.
Tom: That broke first.
Phil: It's like a $strap, isn't it?
Tom: Yep, it is.
Phil: And you need it to actually have the thing work comfortably and productively.
Tom: Comfortably, yes.
Tom: Then, yep, so that broke.
Tom: Then following that, the plastic, tiny little, very flimsy looking plastic bar that you meant to tension a velcro strap to, which I always thought looked a pretty questionable feat of engineering to have this tiny little plastic bar that predictably has also snapped.
Tom: So the headset is only wearable with the horizontal strap attached to it, not the vertical strap.
Tom: I suppose they're both really horizontal, but the strap that goes around the back of your head, not the strap that goes over the top of your head.
Phil: You're a pretty smart fellow.
Phil: Do you think you could engineer something out of a bike helmet or, you know, using bike helmet materials, if you stripped the stuff out of a bike helmet?
Tom: I'm not sure, because you would have to figure out a way to attach it to the helmet, which would be the issue.
Phil: We should ask Helmet Helmetson about this.
Phil: What was funny about...
Phil: When they first brought out the PlayStation VR, it was really funny listening to all these video game geeks, of which I am one, I will say, but I'm also a cyclist, and they were like, yeah, this is amazing.
Phil: You just turn this dial on the back of the thing, and it fits to your head.
Phil: It's like an amazing feat of engineering.
Phil: And it's like, that's every bike helmet in the last years.
Phil: You clearly have never worn a bike helmet.
Phil: That's just a funny aside.
Phil: So you're saying that Zuckerberg is your final hope?
Tom: I think so.
Phil: Would you buy a new Quest or...?
Tom: I very much do not like buying poorly engineered products that are broken.
Tom: So I would want to try and find some way of potentially fixing it.
Tom: But I am yet to figure out a solution.
Tom: It's still usable for short periods of time.
Tom: But if you want to play something for a longer period, it is definitely a little bit awkward.
Phil: What is the best VR game?
Tom: I think my favorite remains the Space Channel game.
Tom: I think that's just a perfect use of the medium.
Tom: But I started Half-Life Alyx and was enjoying that more than any other Half-Life game I'd played before the strap Committed Suicide.
Phil: So you would have given that game a out of
Tom: Maybe a .
Phil: .
Phil: Yeah, let's not get carried away.
Phil: Okay, so back to PlayStation dropping this thing.
Phil: Can you imagine if you were a consumer who had bought one of these?
Phil: I mean, this is not good.
Phil: This is not a good look for Sony.
Phil: Releasing this product...
Phil: Now, keeping in mind there's been leadership changes in Sony gaming.
Phil: So usually when a new person comes in, they can see something's a dead dog.
Phil: The old people who were there have sunken cost theory going on where they're like, no, no, no, it'll be good.
Phil: It'll be good.
Phil: Let's just keep going.
Phil: Because we've spent so much money on it at this point.
Phil: Whereas a new person come in and go, this is not working.
Phil: And I think that coming out with a $USD PC adapter is a very clever and intelligent way to continue to support it and to tell your people that have already bought it, well, hey, you know, there's still other games.
Phil: You can go play it on your PC.
Phil: But the kind of people that go out and buy a PlayStation with a VRyou know, don't usually...
Phil: There's not usually a big cross-section of people that also have gaming PCs, I would say.
Phil: I mean, the whole appeal of Sony's thing is that you plug it into your TV and you go.
Tom: I think the sort of people who would be buying a VR headset, there's a reasonable chance they would have a gaming PC.
Phil: Yeah, yeah, I hear you.
Phil: I do hear you.
Phil: You have to be pretty committed.
Phil: You're right.
Phil: So on a scale of to like how disappointed should we be in this?
Tom: I think if you're a VR headset only, you'd be very disappointed.
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Phil: I think if I was, I would be, I'd be violently angry if I'd bought one of these for my PlayStation.
Tom: But I also think it's a pretty predictable thing to have occurred as well.
Phil: It is sad.
Phil: But obviously the people that were, you know, invested in it emotionally at Sony are no longer there, and that's essentially what's happened.
Tom: I need to hire Mark Zuckerberg.
Phil: Yeah, get the Zuck, get the Zuck in there.
Phil: Next story.
Phil: Xbox Head implies Tango Game Works closure may have been due to a change of leadership.
Phil: So we had speculated, maybe in the last episode or before, Tango Game Works was the Shinji Mikami studio that Microsoft acquired with the acquisition of Bethesda.
Phil: And after they released Hi-Fi Rush to great fanfare and critical acceptance, they closed down the studio.
Phil: And everyone's like, and Matt Booty, who, you know, fantastic name, Matt Booty at Microsoft said, hey, we need to make more games like Hi-Fi Rush.
Phil: And we're closing the studio that made Hi-Fi Rush.
Phil: And everyone's like, oh, Hippocrate, you know, how can these two things gel?
Phil: And I had speculated, we had speculated together that, you know, Bethesda may have brought in Shinji Mikami to create his own studio, to sort of dress up themselves for a potential sale.
Phil: And then of course, it's a studio that started for a celebrity developer.
Phil: Once that celebrity developer leaves, where's the cache?
Phil: Where's the talent?
Phil: Like, what's the point for having it?
Phil: And again, because Microsoft isn't emotional about starting this studio, they're kind of like, well, it doesn't make sense anymore.
Phil: In any case, the story is, here's a quote from Matt Booty.
Phil: There are a lot of things that go into success for a game.
Phil: What leadership do you have?
Phil: What creative leadership do you have?
Phil: Is the team the same team that shipped something successful previously?
Phil: We have to look at all of those things together and ask ourselves, are we set up for success going forward?
Phil: And while there may have been factors that previously led to success, they may not all be still in place as you look at what you're doing going forward.
Phil: So he didn't directly state it, but Shinji Mikami left the studio in
Phil: He directed The Evil Within and oversaw Tango's other games in an executive producer role.
Phil: And obviously he's famous for his Capcom era.
Phil: So yeah, his decision to leave Tango apparently did have an impact on the studio's value to Microsoft based on those statements.
Phil: So not a lot of new things to say there, just basically now that things have calmed down, they've gone ahead and basically confirmed what we thought had happened over there.
Tom: We're essentially bringing it up just to gloat about being correct.
Phil: That is it.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: I'm breaking my arm to pat myself on the back.
Phil: I mean, and it's just it is just logical at the end of it.
Phil: I mean, like, you know, people like to say, oh, but Hi-Fi Rush is such a great game.
Phil: How can I shut down that studio?
Phil: Well, because the guy left and probably a lot of other people left with him or left because he left.
Phil: Next story, Banana Game is not a scam, says developer.
Phil: Credit for this story goes to Eurogamer.
Phil: Are you familiar with Banana Game?
Tom: No, I'm not.
Phil: Has broad appeal because it's free and it's on Steam and it's a clicker, clicker game.
Phil: Basically, you click on the image of a banana and leave the software running and you eventually get a banana dropped into your Steam inventory.
Phil: So you know your Steam inventory where you get, you know, you're playing a game, you can unlock the cards and everything.
Phil: And then depending on the rarity of these bananas, they're selling for up to $
Phil: Some of them are selling for cents, some of them are selling for $
Phil: So they're, you know, different stylized bananas.
Phil: So what does this sound like to you?
Tom: So it's an NFT gambling game, essentially.
Phil: And you might also speculate that, oh, well, you don't even actually have to do anything.
Phil: You just have to open up the application and leave it running.
Phil: And then you'll get all this cool stuff, right?
Phil: So that to me sounds like someone who's using your processor to mine Bitcoin.
Phil: So basically what has happened, I'll just read what their quote was, as I started stammering and humming.
Phil: As you all have heard by now, developer involved with the steam market Bitcoin scam bug.
Phil: Oh, okay.
Phil: I'm just going to call this guy Thess, right?
Phil: As you all have heard by now, Thess used to be involved in a steam market Bitcoin scam bug.
Phil: We did not know about this until recent videos started to point this out.
Phil: And we had a talk almost immediately with the whole team about the situation.
Phil: We gave him a chance to explain the situation to us.
Phil: And we know he is showing remorse and he is sorry for what happened in the past.
Phil: They went on to say banana team is part of ways with Thess because of this revelation, adding quote, that his inventory has been cleared of any valuable bananas that could be of concern or worry the community.
Phil: The banana developer went on to state that there is no scamming, no scam going on.
Phil: And the remaining members are currently working to update the game.
Phil: What does that sound like to you?
Tom: Are they trying to update it to insert the scam or remove the scam?
Phil: Remove the scam.
Phil: Yeah, I just love that.
Phil: There's no scamming going on and the remaining members of the team are working to update the game.
Phil: So if you feel like you've been scammed, you're only scammed for a little bit and you might be getting scammed right now until we update the game, but we are removing the scam.
Phil: Yeah, so that is just hilarious.
Phil: I mean, anytime a developer has to make a public statement that the game is not a scam, it's almost like that painting.
Phil: Was it Matisse?
Phil: The cigar is not a cigar?
Tom: I don't think it was Matisse.
Phil: No, it wasn't Matisse.
Phil: But anyway, I just thought that was a funny story that had to be included.
Phil: Now, some speculate, like why would people pay $for a picture of a banana just because it's rare, right?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: And some are speculating that this could also be a money laundering type scheme, right?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: So you're the company in the middle, you get to decide who receives these ultra rare bananas and then the party that needs to launder their money buys the rare banana at a percentage cost and then that money is returned back to the party that bought the banana for the percentage that has to happen with the middleman.
Phil: I think that's pretty good speculation for all of this NFT stuff, honestly.
Tom: On the one hand, yes.
Tom: On the other hand, there have been some pretty similarly idiotic things occurring in the Steam market before.
Tom: So they were usually related to games that had a fandom behind them.
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Phil: Well, I think there'd be a fair amount of money laundering going on with the Steam marketplace, period, anyway, regardless of the fan base or anything else.
Phil: I mean, it's a great way to launder money, in my opinion.
Tom: Are you speaking from experience?
Phil: No, I have no money to launder.
Phil: I mean, I have money, but I don't need to launder it.
Phil: Yeah, so anyway, that wraps up our news.
Phil: And Julian Assange is back in Australia, and I wonder what he'll be playing.
Phil: I know what he'll be listening to, which is Australia's longest running video game podcast.
Phil: Because he's been away for years.
Phil: We've been going for about years.
Phil: It's possible that he listened to the first show and then did the deed.
Tom: What was the deed he did?
Phil: Oh, you know, release a bunch of information on the internet.
Tom: I thought you were referring to something he did in captivity.
Phil: No, I've heard some stories.
Phil: Yeah, that too.
Phil: I don't think our episode promulgates people to allegedly, you know, commit acts of sexual violence.
Phil: And none of those charges were laid.
Phil: So obviously they had no legitimacy and cannot possibly be true.
Tom: Okay, so I read a long article one day by someone who was meant to write the ghost write his autobiography.
Tom: And he was describing meeting him and driving around, driving around with him.
Tom: So I don't think he was in captivity at this point.
Phil: Okay, very good.
Phil: And we've been not responsible.
Tom: Other than the fact that it was like words and words long, words long, sorry.
Tom: And the only content was basically the authors growing annoyance and hatred of Julian Assange, which one has to wonder, of course, given the fact that he did not end up writing his autobiography, whether he was pissed off because Julian Assange was a singularly obnoxious person or because he was pissed off because he didn't choose him to write the autobiography.
Tom: It was just a potentially unintentionally hilarious article.
Phil: I would love to read that.
Phil: And here in Australia, we're considering whether nuclear power should start to be used.
Phil: I think if there was some way, how a possible way to harness Julian Assange's ego, we'd probably have enough power to last us for a few hundred years.
Phil: Before we get into what we've been playing, I've got to mention my new gaming PC arrived.
Tom: Congratulations.
Phil: Oh, it is glorious.
Phil: It is absolutely glorious to have a computer that is dedicated solely to gaming hooked up to a high definition television.
Phil: It is fantastic.
Phil: It's not the computer you go and do your work on and do your accounting and all this other stuff.
Phil: There's no messaging.
Phil: There's no nothing.
Phil: It's just you turn it on.
Phil: The thing comes on immediately.
Phil: It boots way faster than any game console I've ever had, except obviously cartridge based Nintendo Genesis stuff.
Phil: And it's fantastic.
Phil: It looks great.
Phil: The presentation of the case is wonderful.
Phil: Basically, it's white and it's got all these rainbow like LEDs.
Phil: The only thing you can see through thing, the whole thing is glass.
Phil: But all you see is the processor and the video card.
Phil: And then everything else is hidden.
Phil: And it's a marvelous display.
Phil: But besides that, it's just great to have a reason to play PC games.
Phil: And because it's hooked up to the TV, it's not like I got to go to another room, boot up Windows, better check my email.
Phil: No, I just go in, turn it on like a console, go into my Steam library and other great libraries as well.
Phil: Of note, I'm always talking about if you have an Amazon Prime subscription, you should take advantage of the Amazon Games.
Phil: I mean, they give lots of really good games away, and interesting games, not just indie games either, but old games as well.
Phil: And it's all a part of your Amazon Prime subscription anyway.
Phil: Well, I was thinking they've made it really difficult for me to reinstall the client and have it link up with my existing installs because I took the hard drive out of my old computer and then slapped it on as a secondary drive in the new one.
Phil: But I'll figure that out.
Phil: But if you go into the secondary drive and just click on the executables of the games, you own them.
Phil: You've got them.
Phil: It doesn't need Amazon as an intermediary to go, oh, yeah, you actually own this game.
Phil: So you don't need it.
Phil: You can just play it.
Phil: And then you can add those games to your Steam library because as you probably know, you can add non-Steam games to your Steam library.
Phil: And then, you know, they're accessible through Steam.
Phil: So yeah, kudos to Amazon for that.
Phil: Good old games, similar kind of situation, but not quite as smooth.
Phil: I haven't quite figured out that one yet.
Phil: But yeah, I mean, I love it.
Phil: I'm in love with PC gaming.
Phil: I just gaming, it's not even a PC gaming at this point.
Phil: It's just fantastic.
Phil: The only thing that I'm looking at now is I've got a very small Steam library, I think, by most people's standards.
Phil: Do you even know how many games you've got in your Steam library?
Tom: No, and I'm not sure I want to know.
Phil: Yeah, I've only got like installed, I think.
Phil: And I'm scrolling.
Tom: Installed, you've got installed?
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Tom: I think I have installed.
Phil: ?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: And you've got all the internet in the world?
Tom: Yes.
Phil: Okay, this seems like a travesty.
Phil: Anyway, I'm scrolling through them and going, yeah, played that, yeah, played that, yeah, played that.
Phil: And now I just want to be a downloading fiend and get more of these games, including a game we're going to be talking about next episode, Indica, which I thought was going to be a racing game because I thought it was Indica, but it's not, it's something else.
Phil: But, you know, the Phil Fogg moment came where I brought it home, I hooked it up to a monitor, you know, booted it, and it's not, nothing happens.
Phil: Absolutely nothing happens.
Phil: I can't figure out what's going on.
Phil: So what do you think?
Phil: Maybe the RAM's not seated?
Tom: So is it not booting at all?
Phil: No, the power light comes on, but there's nothing on the display.
Phil: So I try, you know, OK, fine, I go to another monitor, I go to another HDMI cable.
Phil: No, nothing.
Phil: There's no sound.
Phil: There's no fans coming on, you know.
Tom: So the fans are off?
Phil: Well, the fans are off, but all the LEDs light up, you know.
Phil: Like, so there's power going on there.
Phil: And after about five minutes, the fans did kick in because they're like, like, you know, something's going on here.
Phil: This is crazy.
Phil: So I start taking it apart.
Phil: I contact the seller and they're not available.
Phil: All right.
Phil: Contact, I take it apart.
Phil: I'm like, okay, where's the hard drives on this thing?
Phil: So I get down to, because I told you, all you see is the video card and the processor that's on display and the RAM, which is all lit up, right?
Phil: That's what you see through the window.
Phil: But then you can flip it over, take off the hard side.
Phil: And I've got this hidden little cavity for the hard drives and the PSU, power supply unit.
Phil: And I go to look at the hard drive because I'm like, oh, it's like it doesn't have a hard drive.
Phil: There is no hard drive on the system at all.
Phil: Like, there's no hard drive.
Phil: I can see all the cables.
Phil: There's plenty of cables there.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: So now I'm like, well, this is just bloody classic.
Phil: This is.
Phil: So I contact the part.
Phil: It tells me, OK, here's the photo.
Phil: There's no hard drives in it.
Phil: And I go back and look at the list of things.
Phil: Like, maybe I bought it and I didn't buy a hard drive, but it comes with Windows Professional.
Phil: So how can it come with Windows Professional if they don't have a hard drive, like a paid for, you know, like, yeah, nothing.
Tom: I will maybe come with a Windows disk.
Phil: No, no, no Windows disk.
Phil: So I'm like, OK, well, maybe it's a thing where you go online, you redeem the code, you download Windows
Phil: And maybe I'm an idiot because I bought a computer without a hard drive.
Phil: There is no hard drive in the system whatsoever.
Phil: So I start going down a list of OK, yeah.
Tom: But if that were the case, why didn't it boot to BIOS?
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
Phil: I'm trying to boot to BIOS.
Phil: I'm pressing Delete.
Phil: I'm pressing F
Phil: I'm pressing F
Phil: You know, I'm trying to boot to BIOS.
Phil: Nothing's happening.
Phil: So I go down a list of what it's got.
Phil: gigabytes of RAM.
Phil: That's good.
Phil: Not as good as my cheap computer as we talked about last week.
Phil: Had, would I say, terabytes of RAM?
Tom: I think gigabytes.
Phil: Gigabytes of RAM.
Phil: And a gigabyte drive.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Which is all...
Phil: It should have been the show title.
Phil: gigabytes of RAM.
Tom: Which, incidentally, is the amount of RAM that the banana game uses.
Phil: Uses, yeah.
Phil: And enough to take down the Pentagon.
Phil: So, I'm looking at the list of what's in this thing.
Phil: I'm like, okay, here's the thing that looks like the hard drive.
Phil: And it's called a...
Phil: This is where the joke comes in, people.
Phil: NVMe, one terabyte, you know, memory.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: Whatever.
Phil: I'm like, okay, so I go on the internet.
Phil: What's NVMe, right?
Phil: Do you know what NVMe is?
Tom: I believe this is a type of SSD.
Phil: It is.
Phil: It is basically like an SSD that is the size of a RAM stick.
Phil: It's actually smaller.
Phil: It's like the size of a playing card, but not as wide.
Phil: It has this terabyte drive in there.
Phil: It's just you can't actually see it because it's basically like embedded into the board.
Phil: And it's like a whatever terabyte size drive.
Phil: So it's there.
Phil: That's what it is.
Phil: Yeah, it didn't have a hard drive, but it's got this solid state thing that looks like a small stick of ram, like a piece of chewing gum.
Phil: So now I'm like, OK, I know that that's it and whatever.
Phil: I don't know how I eventually got it to actually boot, but then it booted and it's been fine ever since.
Tom: So you took it apart, then reassembled it, right?
Phil: I took it apart, reassembled it.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: So I presume that something was not plugged in correctly.
Phil: Something was not perhaps seated, but I wasn't going around pushing in RAM and doing all that sort of thing.
Phil: So I don't know why the initial thing didn't work, but it's good now and now I know what NVMe is.
Phil: And that just shows you how long I've been out of the game with PCs because I was not even aware that this even happened.
Phil: Do you have some of this stuff in your computer?
Tom: Yep, so NVMe SSDs were definitely around when you bought yours.
Tom: Because I think you built mine, sorry, you built yours after I built mine, didn't you?
Phil: No, no, no, no.
Phil: My old PC was old.
Tom: Oh yeah, you upgraded the graphics.
Phil: Yeah, it came with Windows
Phil: And so on that one we upgraded the processor and the video card with your systems.
Phil: And that worked really well for a long time, but eventually the BIOS wasn't playing with the video card and then the video card fried.
Phil: I don't know if I told you the video card, I don't know the video card fried, but what happened is I moved it over, hooked it up to a TV and then the TV died.
Phil: So I don't know if there was some sort of electrical type issue that has then now corrupted either the motherboard or the video card.
Phil: But yeah, I'll send you the old video card if you want, if you have any interest in it.
Tom: Sure.
Phil: Yeah, righto.
Phil: Maybe you can mine some Bitcoin, play the banana game.
Phil: So it's been a fantastic experience.
Phil: Any questions for me before we go into what we've been playing?
Tom: What games have you actually played on?
Phil: Oh, just basically stuff out of my Steam library.
Phil: So of course, the first game I played was something that was completely low res and I can't even remember.
Phil: I just wanted to see that it was working.
Phil: But the game I played next was Superhot, which was absolutely fantastic on a big TV.
Phil: And then since then, I've just sort of been dabbling.
Phil: I've been playing old racing games, played The Beginner's Guide, just indie games, stuff like that, and a game that I'll talk about, Death's Job from Valve.
Phil: So yeah, I mean, it's snappy, it's great.
Phil: I should have done it a long time ago.
Tom: What resolution is your TV?
Tom: Okay, yep.
Phil: Yeah, and from all my concerns, I was really hoping that I would hook it up to the TV and then walk back into the room to my wife and go, well, now we need to get another TV.
Phil: You know, I was hoping it would look like garbage, and I'd have a fantastic excuse to get rid of this really good TV that has some age to it.
Phil: But yeah, it's working fine.
Phil: It's great.
Phil: It hasn't got HDR.
Phil: But you know, I've got plenty of other good TVs.
Phil: Eventually, I'll shuffle them all around and get the best TV onto this.
Phil: I've got a -inch TV I bought last year, which is ridiculously good.
Tom: I presume that will be K.
Phil: Yeah, it is K.
Phil: But the problem is it's so big that it doesn't fit in any of the vehicles I own, and it's at the other place, so I can't get it back to here, which is a downside, people.
Phil: When you're buying -inch TVs, just consider that you'll never be able to get them repaired without hiring a truck.
Phil: Yeah, that's ultimately going to be the goal, because on that TV, that's completely reinvigorated my passion for PlayStation because it just brings all your games alive.
Phil: And I think that's part of the deal.
Phil: If you're going to be console gaming, you've got to invest in a good TV, just as you do with a good stereo system or a good sound system, in my opinion.
Phil: You know, now I've learned all these things as old as I am.
Phil: Some of these things you just shouldn't put off.
Tom: Would you say if you're playing old games, you should have a CRT TV?
Phil: No, I mean, I do have a CRT, a couple of CRTs.
Phil: And these days with emulation, you know, you've got to be really persnickety to care that much anymore.
Phil: It would be wonderful to have a reliable CRT, because they bring a warmth, just like, you know, records bring that analog type feel to it.
Phil: But I don't think it's necessary anymore.
Tom: And before we move on, I will just say, I checked my stream library, and there are games in it.
Tom: But that does include games from shared libraries.
Phil: Oh, well, there you go.
Tom: So we defined that there's four people involved here.
Tom: Five, if we're including you, but I don't know if your steam library is linked or not.
Phil: Well, I think it used to be, at least, and we can re-link it.
Tom: So we'll just divide it by five anyway.
Tom: So
Phil: Yeah, righto.
Tom: So you're about behind.
Phil: Well, I think the only thing holding me back now is internet.
Phil: And I found out that Starlink is available in my area.
Phil: And by my area, I mean the continent of Australia.
Phil: So Starlink is the Elon Musk satellites in the sky.
Phil: They put all those satellites up there that's all space junk, you know, like stupid satellites up there.
Phil: And it's been getting rave reviews from a lot of people in my area.
Phil: The downside is it's pretty expensive.
Phil: It's $per month.
Tom: That's not bad.
Tom: That's similar to reasonable internet in the suburbs.
Phil: So yeah, I'm considering it.
Phil: But right now, the best internet I can get in my area is $a month.
Phil: And I know I sound like a cheapskate, but I guess I am.
Phil: You know, that's a big jump up just to justify.
Phil: The only justification for it is my gaming.
Phil: But yeah, you know, maybe a little bit more cajoling.
Phil: You'll encourage me somewhere along the way.
Tom: Well, for reasonable internet in a city in Australia, in Melbourne anyway, you'd be expecting to be paying at least $per month.
Phil: Is that right?
Phil: And you've got fiber to the curb, don't you?
Tom: I think we've got the crappy mixed one, but it's possible to upgrade to the proper fiber if we want to.
Phil: Excellent.
Phil: OK, so now let's move on to what we've been playing.
Phil: I'd like to hear from you for a while.
Phil: What have you been playing?
Tom: Well, I think we mentioned it a few episodes ago, and it is This Bed We've Made.
Tom: It's essentially a work simulator where you are playing as a maid who works in a hotel in s Canada, and she is snooping around her guest stuff because she enjoys snooping, apparently.
Tom: Not for any reason to begin with.
Phil: Everyone enjoys snooping.
Phil: I think the only reason a cleaner wouldn't snoop is if they don't have time and are overworked.
Tom: Probably.
Phil: How could you not snoop?
Tom: You know the classic cleaning game, I think it was called Sunset?
Phil: Oh, that game was great.
Tom: I think one of the most interesting things about that was it made the snooping feel incidental to the work.
Phil: In what way?
Tom: I don't know, the two were sort of seamlessly there.
Tom: Where obviously you were trying to find out as much information as you could about what was going on.
Tom: But the way they integrated it just naturally into the environment you were in, you naturally came across, particularly in the beginning, so much information that it wasn't like you were needed to deliberately look for it until a mystery sort of started building.
Phil: Yeah, we should get back to, well, we can't get back to the developer, they've gone out of business, but that was a great ride that we had with that developer.
Tom: It was.
Phil: I think they did Suburbia Luxuria and a walk in the woods or something like that.
Phil: That was a great period for the podcast.
Tom: I think for gaming as well.
Phil: Yeah, definitely.
Phil: Well, they, I believe were a French married couple that had developed those games and with some other people as well.
Phil: I don't want to, you know, minimize other people's involvement in the development of them.
Phil: But so this bit we made, just describe the mechanics of it.
Phil: Like, is it a D side scroller type click and explore?
Tom: Follow me on to that.
Tom: Just on the snooping, it's in stark contrast to sunset where it is very much something you're doing separate to your work.
Tom: But one of the most interesting things mechanically is while you're doing your snooping, you also do need to do your actual made duties.
Tom: So you need to change the linen, change pillows, clean up after the guests and all that sort of thing.
Tom: The actual mechanics in terms of gameplay are pretty simple, though.
Tom: If you're changing a bed, if you're making a bed, you click on the bed and you'll, this is if you're playing with keyboard or mouse, you'll drag the sheets up the bed, then the blankets, then the bed topper, basically.
Tom: So it's pretty simple stuff like that.
Tom: Some things you'll just click, like you'll click on a dirty set of pillows, they'll disappear.
Tom: You'll go and get some new ones from your cart, go back into the room and click on where the pillow should be.
Tom: If there's pillows on the bed that just need to be made, you'll just click on the pillows, that sort of thing.
Tom: So it is very rudimentary in its mechanics in terms of cleaning up the rooms.
Phil: One of the games I've been playing is The Beginner's Guide, and that's basically like an in-game documentary about a guy who has been making these various games and someone talking about it.
Phil: And one of them involves cleaning up a house where you just go and click on a bed, but then it's instantly made, which is far more rudimentary than what you're talking about.
Phil: And we should say that Sunset was developed by, you'll remember all this, a developer called Tale of Tales that were based in Belgium.
Phil: And Lee Alexander was one of the consultants on Sunset specifically.
Phil: There's a name that we haven't talked about for a long time as well.
Tom: I wonder what she was consulted on specifically.
Tom: Was she a cleaning expert?
Tom: Was she there for quality assurance?
Tom: Did she know a lot about South American politics?
Tom: Or was she merely a marketing gimmick?
Phil: Possibly the latter.
Phil: Everything I'm reading on a Wikipedia page is in the past tense.
Phil: So, yeah, there you go.
Phil: So, okay, so you're making up the rooms, but where's the snooping involved?
Tom: Well, as she's snooping around in one of the guest rooms, she discovers that the guest has photographs of her.
Phil: Oh, creepy.
Tom: Indeed.
Tom: So she starts to wonder if the guest is stalking her.
Tom: And at this point, you go and talk to two other characters in the hotel.
Tom: One of them works at the front desk, and the other one, I can't remember what his job was, but he had red hair and glasses, and you pick between them essentially as to who is going to be accompanying you in solving this mystery.
Tom: And as you can probably guess, I chose the woman at the front desk as opposed to the redheaded man, as I recall a few details about him.
Phil: Well, I see a picture of this redheaded man on the Steam page for this game, and we should say this game is available.
Phil: It came out last year,
Phil: It's available for $AUD, and in terms of its reviews, it's been broadly well received.
Phil: But yeah, I'm looking at this picture of this guy, and yeah, I would not be picking him.
Phil: He looks a bit weird and creepy.
Tom: Well, he is a nerd.
Tom: So I said he is a nerd, so he might be the more relatable character to some people playing the game.
Tom: But not to us.
Tom: We're nothing like him.
Phil: No, of course not.
Tom: But so you choose who is going to accompany you on this journey.
Tom: And so as you continue investigating this mystery, you are making phone calls to the front desk or to the nerd wherever he may be, which will forever remain a mystery, depending on who you choose to play, to accompany you on your journey.
Tom: And they'll be talking to you about what's happening, trying to help you solve the mystery that is occurring, which does balloon into something more significant than a potentially creepy guest as you're going from room to room.
Tom: And seeing how the other guests in the room are connected to the mystery as well.
Phil: I don't want to spoil it, and I can't possibly because I've not played it or read anything about it, but does it involve a sex cult?
Tom: No, it doesn't.
Phil: Oh, well, there's a lost opportunity.
Tom: Disappointing.
Tom: There is no sex cult, but there is a lot of sexual deviancy involved because it turns out that the hotel is a hotbed of deviant for the era sexual activity, which I will not detail because it is a potential spoiler territory.
Tom: But the fact that you can choose between a male or female companion for your quest might imply just what sort of deviancy is occurring on a mass scale within this s Canadian hotel.
Phil: Well, I think you probably don't have to say much.
Phil: I think we all know that the deviancy at the time would have been anything other than the missionary position between a man and a woman.
Tom: Correct.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: So it leaves a broad scope of deviancy available.
Phil: So have you finished this game?
Tom: Yes, I have.
Phil: And so, I mean, would you recommend it?
Tom: I would.
Tom: I think the mixture of detective story where you are solving various puzzles, putting together clues from one room to another to solve generally pretty basic puzzle, but some of them require a little bit of thought, enough that it remains interesting combined with the, albeit pretty basic, work simulator style mechanics is an interesting combination.
Tom: The fact that if you don't bother to do your work in the hotel, it affects what the ending is.
Tom: So that's also an interesting use of it in that sense as well.
Tom: And there are a lot of different endings based on a huge number of different ways you can choose to approach the puzzle solving in your work.
Tom: So it's interesting from that perspective as well.
Tom: And I think the story and characters are enough to combine with somewhat rudimentary gameplay mechanics to make it an enjoyable experience.
Tom: There's the story maybe a little on the nose in terms of some of the content given the setting, but the characters are interesting enough that it doesn't matter.
Tom: And the way they tell the story with you discovering various things about the guests in the hotel, despite not interacting with them, I thought was a pretty interesting and enjoyable narrative choice as well.
Phil: Is it one of these games where you have to balance doing the work of the job and then having enough time to do the snooping type thing?
Tom: I don't think there was really a time pressure at any point in the game, but it does require you to put in the extra effort yourself to actually be doing your work at the same time.
Phil: With Dave the Diver, I think where I'm falling down on it is I...
Phil: And this happened with...
Phil: There was an arcade simulator game where you are working in a laundromat, and you have a few arcade games as well that came out last year that I'll talk about another time, because I think it is a game worth discussion.
Phil: And that was...
Phil: Gosh, I can't remember the name of it.
Phil: You can't Google arcade game because it's just not going to come up.
Phil: But there was a game that came out in the last two years where you were working a laundromat, and you have to do the laundromat work, but then you have time to go and develop your arcade machines.
Phil: And the problem for me was, and I think this is the floor of the game, that you're supposed to give up on the work at some point and just focus on getting more video game arcade units into your laundromat and all this sort of thing.
Phil: And actually playing the games unlocks more games.
Phil: And they don't flag this at all.
Phil: Users just have to eventually get sick of doing the work, and then they'll discover, actually the laundromat thing isn't the most important thing.
Phil: Taking out the trash isn't the most important thing.
Phil: The most important thing is focusing on this arcade business.
Phil: And of course, for me, I'm like hours into the game, nothing's happening.
Phil: I'm just getting way better at taking out the trash and doing laundry because my mind is like, well, I can only play the game if I've done all the work.
Phil: And the developer tried to justify this and go, well, yeah, maybe we should have sort of at some point if someone's been playing it for hours and hasn't deviated from the path that we laid for them, maybe we could have said something or put up a thing that said, hey, maybe, you know, work isn't all you need in the life.
Phil: Maybe you need to play some games.
Phil: Which, yeah, which, you know, for me was a big drag on the game because I'm like, this is just at a certain point, this game is not progressing.
Phil: Anyway, it's funny.
Phil: I think it's funny.
Tom: Were you enjoying doing the work in the laundry, though?
Phil: Oh, yeah, immeasurably.
Phil: I feel you got to clean the gum off the chairs.
Phil: You got to, you know, you got to clean up the place.
Tom: Was it better than the arcade games?
Phil: Yeah, the arcade games are shite.
Phil: They were terrible.
Tom: So maybe this was how you should have been playing it.
Phil: Oh, it's how I picked the right way to play it.
Phil: And I guess maybe they were thinking, well, video game players will just be drawn to the video games.
Phil: But it's like, well, yeah, but good video games.
Phil: Like if they had a lot of parody type video games in it.
Phil: But you know, like if they had actual real Pac-Man, yeah, I could let the trash not be taken out for a while while I play Pac-Man, you know, like a good arcade game.
Phil: Anyway, I'm sorry, I've derailed us here.
Phil: The game we're talking about is This Bed We've Made, available on PC.
Phil: I don't know if it's available in any other format.
Phil: And have you, you have finished it?
Phil: Oh, the reason we can't hear Tom is because he's gone to get the die of destiny.
Phil: It's not just a sound effect, it's a real die imbued with powers to value a game.
Tom: It is the final word on the value of a game, I believe.
Phil: Which wrist are you using, left or right?
Phil: Right.
Phil: Oh, here we go.
Phil: Crank it.
Tom: One out of ten.
Phil: Wow, you know, that's the same score you gave The Beginner's Guide when we reviewed it in episode
Tom: I wouldn't say this is as bad as The Beginner's Guide.
Phil: Not as bad?
Tom: No.
Tom: If you have to choose between the two worst rated games of The Game Under Podcast, I would recommend This Bed We Made over The Beginner's Guide.
Phil: Okay, very well.
Phil: So at the overpriced price of $
Tom: Actually, no, no.
Tom: Sorry.
Tom: I was thinking of the Stanley Parallel.
Phil: Oh, Stanley Parallel.
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: No, no.
Phil: You gave The Beginner's Guide a one out of ten.
Tom: In that case, you could play either of them.
Tom: I would recommend of the worst games ever on The Game Under Podcast, play either of them.
Phil: Excellent.
Phil: Now, a game I've been playing, as I told you, a new PC.
Phil: I log on to Steam.
Phil: I see all these games in my library that I don't remember buying.
Phil: And one of them was Aperture Desk Job.
Phil: Now, I didn't buy Aperture Desk Job.
Phil: It's a game that Valve gives away for free.
Phil: And it was released in
Phil: Have you played this?
Tom: No, I haven't.
Tom: I had not even heard of it previously.
Phil: OK, so it's a spin-off of the Portal series, Aperture Labs and all that sort of thing.
Phil: And it was released concurrently with the Steam Deck.
Phil: It's basically a tech demo showcasing the platform's controller functions.
Phil: So this is the pack-in game for the Steam Deck, which I do hope to get one day.
Phil: And so it's a pretty short game.
Phil: I think it took me about maybe minutes to play.
Phil: And it is supposed to be showing you how to use the Steam Deck in terms of the various controls.
Phil: But you don't need a Steam Deck to play it.
Phil: You can play it on your PC or with a gaming controller.
Phil: You will need a mouse and keyboard at some point in the game, so have those at the ready.
Phil: You play from a first-person perspective and in typical portal sense of humor, you're put into a job by a robot to do some meaningless tasks.
Phil: And it's kind of fun because it's basically like a QTE.
Phil: They give you a task to do.
Phil: Something comes along in front of you on a conveyor belt.
Phil: You've got to do certain assembly type things, and it moves on.
Phil: Then you've got to do it again, and then you do it again.
Phil: So the first time you're like, oh, okay, yep, I get it.
Phil: Then the second one comes along, you're like, yeah, okay, yeah, this is, yep, yep, I get it.
Phil: Then the third one comes along, you're like, okay, yep, yep.
Phil: And then by the seventh one, you're like, how long are they, this is starting, like, this is like a job now.
Phil: You know, and I'm like, this is funny.
Phil: This is funny that they've let this go on for so long.
Phil: And it really shows a wry wit and ability of Valve to, you know, pulls off, pull off something like that.
Phil: And then just when you think, okay, like, seriously, this is just ridiculous, something happens.
Phil: And then from there, your whole experience starts to, you know, in a very comedic fashion, devolve or devolve perhaps.
Phil: It looks fantastic.
Phil: And I would thoroughly recommend it to anyone because it is only minutes.
Phil: And to me, it was more of a forensic study.
Phil: The audio was top notch.
Phil: The graphics were perfect for what they were trying to accomplish.
Phil: The writing was good and engaging and involving, and they used gameplay to propel the story.
Phil: It wasn't just all, you know, spoken narrative.
Phil: And yeah, it was really good and really well done.
Phil: I thoroughly recommend you try it.
Phil: It's compatible with Linux and Windows using the Source engine.
Phil: Of note, it was interesting because on every Valve game, they list everyone who works at the company, including the receptionist and, you know, the cleaners and all the rest of it.
Phil: So, and then they're in alphabetical order with no distinction as to what their jobs are, right?
Phil: So if you can imagine this credit roll with three names across, you know, going, starting with Aaron.
Phil: So the first thing I was like, there's a lot of people working at Valve named Aaron.
Phil: And then I was like, oh, okay, this is alphabetical.
Phil: Got it, okay.
Phil: And then, yeah, so I was able to calculate that there's between and people working at Valve, which is of interest, given, you know, what they do or don't do.
Phil: And then in the credit roll under the voice acting for a character named Charlie, I see Phil Fogg.
Phil: I'm like, what?
Phil: I gotta get a screenshot of this, this is fantastic.
Phil: Some dude out there is called Phil Fogg, and he was the voice of Charlie.
Phil: Well, okay, that's, you know, and then the next morning I'm thinking, oh yeah, I gotta go tell Tom about this.
Phil: You know, this is funny.
Phil: You know, like Phil Fogg, you know, hey, I got a credit.
Phil: I can, I could probably pretend that I did the voice acting for Charlie in this game.
Phil: And then about half a day later, I realize at some point in the game, they make you fill out a form with your name.
Phil: And so I put, obviously I put in Phil Fogg.
Phil: Charlie is the name of a character that never speaks.
Phil: And I just thought that was funny because it is deep in the credit roll.
Phil: And the only people they do credit are the voice actors, in terms of what they did in the game.
Phil: So that's probably a spoiler, but I thought that was an interesting touch and also an insight into my lack of intelligence.
Phil: I was like, well, yeah, I went on the internet.
Phil: I'm like, well, who's this Phil Fogg voice actor?
Phil: So I put Phil Fogg in the internet.
Phil: I'm like, there are a lot of Phil Fogg's.
Phil: I didn't think my name was so common.
Phil: You know, like I know, you know, Phileas P Fogg ran the world in days and all that sort of thing.
Phil: But I, you know, like, you know, anyway.
Phil: So yeah, well worth playing.
Phil: Thoroughly recommend it.
Phil: If it had gone on any longer, you know, I don't know that I would, but yeah, it was a nice, neat little package.
Phil: Well told, well presented and gives me hope for what Valve's capable of as a video game developer.
Tom: I think it sounds excellent.
Tom: I'll definitely have to play it.
Phil: Yeah, give it a try.
Phil: I mean, just as a forensic experience as to what Valve is capable of, it's certainly worth the minutes of time and a pretty small download as well, I think.
Tom: Are you gonna give it a score?
Phil: If I were to give it a score, it would be a cop out, like eight out of type thing.
Phil: I would, in reality, I would give it as a game, like if this was a game that I had to pay for, I'd give it a five out of
Phil: But as an experience that's free, and as I said, an insight into Valve, it's worth playing, certainly.
Phil: It's worth your investment of time.
Phil: It's certainly, yeah, nothing more than a five.
Tom: So what's the next, Phil?
Phil: Ah, well, thank you for asking.
Phil: I've got Phil's questions for you from other people's podcasts.
Phil: We've only got one this week, but it's a good one.
Phil: Jay writes, no location disclosed, whatever happened to car combat games?
Phil: Why did they stop being made?
Phil: For that matter, what is the state of driving games today?
Phil: So three questions there.
Phil: Now, just while you're gathering your thoughts, whatever happened to car combat games?
Phil: So car combat games, you know, I think of Twisted Metal on the PlayStation, Vigilante on the PlayStation and NDestruction Derby, Rush had a combat section, which was fantastic.
Phil: And then probably the newest entry would be Full Auto, which I think was a Xbox launch game.
Phil: So I played all of those and they were all fantastic.
Phil: Well, they weren't all fantastic.
Phil: They were all good experiences for their time.
Phil: So whatever happened to them, why did they stop being made?
Phil: And then a bigger question, what is the state of driving games today?
Tom: I think the reason they stop being made is, I think the increase in expectations of driving mechanics.
Tom: That's my theory.
Tom: So they were popular when there were many more arcade racing games around that were not retro-themed.
Tom: When games started, when gamers started to have expectations that everything would have some sort of more quote, realistic, end quote, physics engines in them, is when they sort of started dying off a little bit.
Phil: But in terms of arcade games, we would probably say that the Burnout series and the need for speed games that Criterion developed on the PlayStation were probably the last hurrah for arcade games that are being sold on mass market level.
Phil: So forever there's been simulation games, races, and there's been arcade races.
Phil: I like both.
Phil: I think I'd probably like them all pick up and play arcade style.
Tom: But I think the arcade ones today, like Need for Speed and Burnout, they exist on the basis that they are recreating a sort of game that previously existed.
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
Phil: But I think probably the closest we've got to an arcade quote racer these days would, I mean, does Rocket League even count?
Phil: Not really, it's, I mean-
Tom: I think that's closer to being a car combat game.
Phil: Exactly.
Phil: Than a racing game.
Phil: Yeah, cause you're in an arena.
Phil: I think the problem with games like Twisted Metal and Vigilante which is where Doom with Cars, you know, I think the first review I wrote, cause I was not aware of Twisted Metal when I played Vigilante
Phil: And I wrote a review, it was like, this is like Doom with Cars, it's amazing.
Phil: Not knowing that it was a fairly cheap rip off, of Twisted Metal, the problem with those games is that they were set in an arena and you can't actually see people shooting at you.
Phil: Like you'd be just driving along trying to shoot and you can only directly in front of you with a limited scope of vision, which is pretty frustrating.
Phil: It's a novel experience, if you hadn't been exposed to it before, but as an ultimate experience today, you know, fighting in an arena is just annoying because you're getting-
Tom: I don't think that they weren't all arena games though.
Tom: There's also In the State for example.
Phil: Which is the people that made Vigilante
Tom: Yep, and Carmageddon as well.
Tom: I think that would probably qualify.
Phil: Yeah, Rush was an arena game, but expertly pulled off.
Tom: And there was also an isometric, two excellent isometric arcade racing games, the titles of which both allude me currently, that also featured combat in them.
Tom: They were isometric racing games that took place on racing tracks in various settings that also featured combat as well.
Phil: If there were a place for car combat games today, I think full auto on the is where it would be because, and some people say, well, Mario Kart is a car combat game.
Phil: And yeah, I mean, if we want to make this, for people who haven't played full auto, if you think of Mario Kart, well, that kind of works because you don't have people coming at you from the side, you got people from behind and you got people in front of you.
Phil: And that does work quite well, I think, and worked well in full auto as well.
Phil: I just think the only part where car combat games wouldn't work today is that open arena, if it's not in an isometric view or a third person view, I think that's where the difficulty arrives.
Tom: But then what about Grand Theft Auto, does that qualify as a car combat game?
Phil: Well, terrible ones, right?
Phil: Yeah, what would it qualify?
Phil: It has combat in a car, but I think for a car combat game, you've got to have weapons that are mounted on the car, not just be shooting from the vehicle.
Phil: And in Grand Theft Auto, to my knowledge, there was never a weapon mounted on the vehicle itself.
Tom: I think there are vehicles that do have weapons on them.
Tom: For instance, there's a tank in San Andreas.
Phil: Oh, a tank, yeah, the tank.
Phil: But, you know, and then I go, well, how is this different from a multiplayer shooter where you're getting people attacking you from either side?
Phil: And I think it's the turning point, right?
Phil: Like, you know, if you're a human getting shot at from the left, you can immediately turn to the left and you have peripheral vision.
Phil: I think with a car, what's frustrating is you're getting shot from the left and you have to turn, you know, you got to turn all the way around.
Phil: And by the time you turn around, they're gone.
Phil: And I think that's very similar to like flight sims, you know, because if you've ever played flight sims, it's not about turning around to shoot the guy who's behind you.
Phil: You've got to go down, you've got to go up, you've got to come up with some of the strategy.
Phil: I think probably car combat games, you know, are a feature, not an app.
Phil: I think if you were going to incorporate car combat into a driving game today, you know, it would be a mode, which was pulled off excellently in Rush
Phil: But I can't think that you can make a whole game around it anymore.
Tom: I think part of that is expectations in driving physics.
Tom: Because if you have to make a game that has relatively complex driving physics, unless it's a nostalgic arcade game, you're essentially having to juggle two different types of games at once.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: It's the same issue with flight sims.
Tom: These days, where did the serious flight sims with combat in them go?
Tom: They're no longer being made.
Tom: There's flight sim, flight simulator, which has no combat, and then there are arcade combat flight sims.
Phil: They're sort of cartoony third-person ones, which I love, absolutely.
Phil: And flight sim, I'd like to lie and say that I love it, but I actually haven't been able to download it because it's ridiculous.
Phil: And I'm the kind of guy who goes, oh, I really like flight sim games, but when I actually do play them, I've never played them in high fidelity because I haven't played the most recent one.
Phil: But yeah, I think the flight combat games now, there's a ton of them on Steam and elsewhere that are arcade-y and a lot of fun.
Tom: But there aren't ones like IL-Stermivic still being made, which was a proper flight sim with combat in it.
Tom: And I would expect rather than like with racing games, where I think the expectations of mechanics gets in the way, I think they're the expectations of visual fidelity getting away there.
Phil: I guess the closest thing we'd have to that is Ace Combat, which hasn't seen a new release for some time now.
Tom: And is an arcade.
Phil: Yeah, it's arcade.
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
Phil: It's the closest to, but not what you're talking about.
Phil: What was the name of the game that you just mentioned?
Phil: Just so our listeners, if they want to look into it.
Tom: I think it's called IL-Stermivic, named after a type of plane.
Phil: Okay, IL-like clean up on IL-?
Tom: Yes, no, IL, the letters.
Phil: IL?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: You sure it's not just Roman numeral ?
Tom: I don't think so.
Phil: Then it'd be Tutu.
Phil: You may get this story straight, man.
Phil: Or is it, it's not I-S-L-E, like an island?
Tom: No, maybe it is Tutu, actually.
Phil: Tutu, like Desmond Tutu, or something you'd wear in ballet.
Phil: Well, listeners, let us know.
Tom: It could be Tutu or double I, actually.
Phil: So before we close out, the next part of the...
Tom: No, the game is indeed, is indeed I-L-
Tom: Yep, L-
Tom: Dermavik.
Phil: Dermavik, okay.
Phil: Never heard of it.
Phil: I am excited to look into this.
Tom: I presume the I-L is short for Ilyushin, which is the name of the plane, which is, if that is true, it's called, it's called...
Tom: It's not Tutu, but it is Ilyushin, Ilyushin-
Phil: Oh yeah, of course, Ilyushin, Ilyushin-
Phil: Yeah, that makes total sense.
Phil: Now, I've got to tell you, the reason why I bought a Commodore I was doing work experience in an electrical store and I was there for a week and I loved it.
Phil: I loved the retail experience, lying to people, getting them to buy stuff, supporting people as well, delivering things to ladies homes, helping them out in that regard as a teenager.
Phil: And on my last day, I'm like, I've been looking at this all week.
Phil: They've got a copy of Microprose's Gunship, which is a helicopter simulation of the Apache A, which is a combat attack helicopter.
Phil: I bought a computer.
Phil: I took all the money that I had at the time just so I could buy and play this flight sim, which is all I did for the next few years.
Phil: And really was the renaissance of my gaming experience.
Phil: So I'm down with realistic flight sims.
Phil: And Microprose did some great jobs back in the day.
Phil: The bigger question that Jay asks is, for that matter, what is the state of driving games today?
Tom: The state of them?
Phil: Yeah, what's the state of driving games?
Phil: They used to go and be able to buy like six or seven different games, and it'd be like four different arcade games, and like two different sims.
Phil: Now we've got Gran Turismo and Forza coming out like once every seven years.
Phil: Forza Horizon, I don't even remember.
Phil: I guess that's the closest we've got to arcade games.
Phil: Need for Speed has fumbled and flopped around with very few releases that are noteworthy.
Phil: They used to come out every year, and some were good and some were bad.
Phil: You had Burnout, you had the Rush series, you had all these games going on.
Phil: Today, driving games?
Phil: I mean, what's happened?
Tom: That reminds me, did we ever end up covering Need for Speed Unbound?
Tom: I don't think we did, did we?
Phil: No.
Tom: So maybe that will be in the next show.
Phil: Okay, I can tell you another great Need for Speed game as well.
Phil: So maybe we just do a Need for Speed special in the next episode.
Phil: We can talk about some of the games that we've liked in the franchise.
Phil: I would say since you haven't answered, I think the state of driving games today, I think if you go on to your Switch and play games like Asphalt, there's plenty of fun driving games around.
Phil: Yeah, a lot of them are full of microtransactions and things of that nature.
Phil: As we said, we've got Rocket League, which is ostensibly probably more of a soccer game than it is a driving game that's highly successful.
Phil: But there is a gap, I feel.
Phil: You've got driving games that are simulators like Euro Truck Simulator and American Truck Simulator, but that's not really what we're talking about when I think about driving games.
Phil: And then what happened to Dirt and Colin McRae and all that?
Tom: The most recent Colin McRae slash Dirt game, I think came out really recently.
Tom: It came out last year.
Tom: It's been rebranded as WRC, or rather EA Sports Trademark WRC.
Tom: So the last one of those came out last year and was predictably, I think, well received by critics and despised by fans.
Phil: By enthusiasts.
Phil: The enthusiasts are never happy.
Tom: But I think it's worth looking at some of these reviews on Steam for it.
Tom: For example, here's not recommended review.
Tom: How long do you think the person playing it who doesn't recommend it had played it for?
Phil: minutes.
Tom: hours.
Phil: You loser.
Tom: Another negative review.
Tom: hours.
Tom: A positive review.
Tom: hours.
Phil: Oh, well, at least they spent the time.
Phil: But, you know, if they spent another...
Tom: At least they were enjoying themselves for hours.
Phil: Maybe if they'd spent another hours on it though, they'd get sick of it.
Tom: Maybe that was the problem.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Well, what's the old joke?
Phil: The food here is terrible and the portion sizes are so small.
Phil: You know?
Phil: No, that's...
Phil: Yeah, look, I think there's plenty of driving games available for people who want to play them.
Phil: I'm a massive fan of Sonic and Sega All-Star Racing on whatever platform you can get it.
Phil: I played on a PC.
Phil: My daughter loves it as well.
Phil: She says, this is so much better than Mario Kart.
Phil: I'm like, yeah.
Phil: So yeah, I still think there's still plenty of driving games.
Phil: It's just like with sports games.
Phil: There used to be seven different baseball games.
Phil: Now there's one.
Phil: There used to be seven different soccer games.
Phil: We got to ask, too, what is the state of Pro Evo and soccer video games?
Phil: We'll put a pin on that as well.
Tom: Horrendous, I believe.
Tom: FIFA hasn't changed what the game is for many, many years.
Tom: And I don't think Pez has either.
Tom: They've changed the title, but not the game.
Phil: Pez has fallen off massively.
Phil: But anyway, we'll talk about that next episode.
Phil: Thanks for listening to episode of the Game Under Podcast.
Phil: We've been doing this since so there's a lot of resources covering games from that time to now at our website, gameunder.net.
Phil: If you'd like to submit a question, please use the comment section from our homepage, from the very front page.
Phil: You don't have to register and all the rest of it.
Phil: Just ask a question.
Phil: And thanks for listening to episode of the Game Under Podcast.
Tom: Before we do finish.
Tom: No, before we finish, I have to ask.
Phil: Phil Fogg, you can call me Phil.
Tom: Did you ever hear back from our tip cover?
Phil: No, I haven't touched base with them.
Phil: But before we close out, do you have any stories you want to tell me about fashion objects?
Tom: If you have time, we may as well cover it.
Phil: Well, this is almost a bonus.
Phil: You know what?
Phil: We will tease this and we'll talk about this in our returning trademark banter segment at the start of episode in a couple of weeks from now.
Phil: Thanks for listening.
Phil: I'm Phil SP.
Phil: Fogg.
Phil: You can call me Phil.
Tom: I'm Tom Towers.
Phil: You can call him Tom.