Stream below or right-click and download the mp3. You can also listen on iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?
0:00:05 Intro
0:00:30 ANZAC Banter
0:01:47 Gamepass on Switch 2?
0:08:23 Are the Big 3 at a Gridlock?
0:17:35 Third Party Switch Games are Codes
0:21:00 Switch 2 Release Price
0:23:52 Oblivion Remake Launch
0:29:04 Tom's Played Oblivion Remake
0:46:36 Phil's Played Case of the Golden Idol
0:56:00 Tom's Played Blue Prince
1:04:10 SPOILER ALERT for Blue Prince
1:24:42 Outro
In this episode Tom and Phil discuss the weeks news, including more Switch 2 controversy, and Microsoft’s remaster of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. We then give our impression of the Blue Prince, a game that many are putting on the top of their GOTY lists. Tom dabbled with the Oblivion remaster and after last episode Phil decided to play The Case of the Golden Idol and tell Tom exactly what he thinks about it.
ANZAC Biscuit Recipe
Mix together 1 cup plain flour, 1 cup of sugar, 1 cup rolled oats, 1 cup coconut, pinch of salt. Melt 250g of butter in 2 tablespoons of water, then add 1 tablespoon of can syrup and 1 teaspoon of baking soda. Stir into dry ingredients. Mix well. Place teaspoonfuls on greased tray and bake in moderate oven till browned (about 10 minutes). Allow to cool on tray.
Transcript:
Tom: Hello and welcome to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Tom: I'm your host, Tom Towers, and I'm joined, as always, by...
Phil: Oh, Phil Fogg.
Phil: Sorry, I was waiting for you to make some sort of Anzac Day reference or something.
Tom: I forgot your name.
Tom: That was the issue.
Tom: I was waiting for you to fill me in there.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: Fill you in.
Phil: Exactly.
Phil: I just mentioned Anzac Day.
Phil: That's something for our foreign listeners.
Phil: Anzac is short for Australian New Zealand Armored Corps.
Tom: It's also a biscuit.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: I was going to say it's also a fantastic biscuit with some variants.
Phil: I've got to ask you, do you believe coconut should be an ingredient in Anzac biscuits?
Tom: Yes.
Phil: Okay, good.
Phil: We're on the same path.
Phil: So rolled oats, coconut, sugar.
Phil: What's your thoughts on honey?
Tom: Probably should have sugar.
Tom: Could have honey though, why not?
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Have you made your own Anzac biscuits?
Tom: Yes, I believe I have.
Phil: I have a killer recipe.
Phil: I'll put it up on the show notes there.
Tom: In our cooking section.
Phil: In our cooking section.
Tom: I'm looking forward to reading all the back story that will be featured in the recipe, I presume.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Now also, do you have your Die of Destiny ready?
Phil: Because I don't know if you've finished any games.
Phil: I know we're going to be talking about some big games this week, like Blue Pince and Oblivion and stuff like that.
Tom: The Die of Destiny was located, I believe.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Very good.
Phil: Excellent.
Phil: All right.
Phil: Well, we'll start in with the news.
Phil: Story number one, Xbox boss Phil Spencer reiterates support for the Switch saying Nintendo has been a great partner.
Phil: We think it's a unique way for us to reach players who aren't PC players and aren't players on Xbox.
Phil: It lets us continue to grow our community of people that care about the franchises that we have, and that's really important for us to make sure we continue to invest in our games.
Phil: The Xbox head reiterated the company's plans to keep delivering games and making them available quote in as many places as possible.
Phil: Not really a new story there, I guess, other than the fact that it has Switch in the headline and this credit goes to Variety, the entertainment magazine.
Phil: I got a question for you.
Phil: Do you see, this is an easy question, do you see any world in which Game Pass is on a Nintendo system?
Tom: I think it comes down to whether Nintendo would allow it.
Tom: I presume, with the statements Microsoft has been making, they would like Game Pass to be on both PlayStation and Switch.
Phil: Absolutely.
Phil: They'd love it on Sony's platform as well.
Phil: But do you think Nintendo would allow it?
Tom: I think maybe not.
Tom: Maybe they think it would devalue the brand somehow.
Phil: I would say they absolutely would not want it on there, because if you're giving away all these, you're not giving it away.
Phil: I mean, it's a subscription.
Phil: Obviously, there would be a profit share there to make it worthwhile for Nintendo.
Phil: But I think as long as Nintendo is financially viable and making money, they would be foolish to allow Game Pass or any subscription service on their platform.
Phil: Because while people are playing the new Oblivion on Game Pass, they're not going out and buying a Nintendo game.
Tom: It would also be competing with their own subscription service as well.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: I don't think there's any way possible for that.
Phil: I think Microsoft would love it.
Phil: Now, what do you think Sony would do it?
Phil: Or just for the same reasons?
Phil: Absolutely not.
Tom: I would presume Sony wouldn't either.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Do you think-
Tom: What about Game Pass officially on a Steam Deck in some capacity somehow?
Phil: I'd say that Steam would do it.
Phil: Valve would allow it, but they'd probably want some monstrosity of a percentage of the profit share.
Phil: Because it would also, for the same reasons, it's going to cut into their revenue.
Phil: But if they were getting, let's say, percent of the subscriptions that come through Steam, they might do it.
Phil: And if Nintendo had three hardware flops in a row, they might look at it in a different way as well and go, well, why are we making these games home towards the Western market?
Phil: Or why are we chasing that?
Phil: You know, our third-party support could be Game Pass, basically.
Phil: And we'll stick to making our games and then you've got Game Pass on there as well, as long as they were getting a lucrative enough piece of the action.
Tom: Here's a question for you on the Switch launch.
Tom: I think a notable thing I've seen lacking from discussions is whether people think it will actually be successful or not.
Phil: Well, there's a couple of things there.
Phil: Number one is, and I understand what you're saying, the reality right now, and this isn't, really isn't indicative of how it will go forever, but apparently pre-sales in Japan have sold out, and they had to actually issue a statement because they're a publicly traded company, stating that we are not going to have enough systems at that launch.
Phil: And I haven't got the latest on the US pre-sales because that just was basically like a day and a half ago.
Phil: So based on pre-orders, it will be successful, but the people who are pre-ordering, the people who are in the bag, they know exactly what's going on with the Switch
Phil: Whether it's going to be successful broadly will depend on whether they're able to bring in people who aren't following video game website news, website channels and things like that.
Phil: So I think there's room there for them to fail.
Phil: There certainly is and I'm not the only one to say it.
Tom: I think the most interesting part is just that it's not a part of the discourse at all.
Tom: In the past anyway, when a console has launched, that's been one of the major talking points, has it not?
Phil: Absolutely.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Is it going to fail or not?
Phil: I have heard some people ask if it could possibly fail, and given reasons, like it's not innovative enough, it's too expensive, it's not innovative enough.
Phil: I'm not the only one to have said that, but I don't think I see it in the broader community at all.
Phil: I don't see regular Joes asking, is this going to succeed or not?
Tom: I haven't seen it either.
Tom: I think it goes back to the thing we've been discussing before about the total change in attitude with gamers when it comes to companies, where there doesn't really seem to be much criticism of them in terms of their consumer-based policies.
Tom: And I think going with that is just an assumption that everything will succeed, because why wouldn't it?
Tom: Everything is great, is it not?
Phil: Right.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: And I really think the price point is something here that is going to cause some squeamishness amongst the broader community.
Phil: Because at the end of the day, what are most people picking?
Phil: Like they're either playing on a tablet, casuals, or either playing on a tablet, or they can get this switch with the Mario characters on it, right?
Phil: From their perspective.
Phil: And for bucks or bucks, you go, yeah, it'll be worth it.
Phil: The kid's going to play with it for six years, it's fine.
Phil: But when it's closer to a thousand bucks in Australia, when you add up a second controller in a video game and all the rest of it, we'll just basically that, you get a second control in the game.
Phil: But maybe if we get on to the next story.
Phil: But Mike, other question was before we get on to the next story, which is also Switch launch related, so we can continue on that topic.
Phil: Do you think we're at a gridlock with Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft?
Phil: I thought this generation, something would shake out or maybe in the next generation of consoles, something would shake out where Microsoft is going to go, no, we're not going to make a console anymore, or Sony would do something similar or will pull back in some way.
Phil: Like is Nintendo always going to be over there in the niche doing what they do?
Phil: Is Microsoft going to stick with this game pass or bust strategy?
Phil: Because when Spencer says in this, let us continue to grow our community of people that care about the franchises that we have, right?
Phil: Now, he can say that now because they own Bethesda, and they own Activision, and they own a whole bunch of other companies as well.
Phil: Five years ago, Microsoft was not talking about people who care about the franchises that they have because they basically had two or three franchises, Boots of Gears and Halo, and all of them were starting to show craft.
Phil: So do you think where we are now with these three players involved in the way that they're involved, do you think that is going to be the status quo for the next five years?
Tom: So by status quo, do you mean you were suggesting that another contender could potentially enter or solely that one might leave?
Phil: I was thinking one of them had to have, one of these companies had to have left, right?
Phil: Yep.
Phil: It obviously wasn't going to be Nintendo with the most successful console sales of all time.
Phil: But you look at Sony and they've got their console, but they haven't really got a great lineup of games.
Phil: Because third-party support is something that's no longer really an issue between Sony and Microsoft because of the acquisitions, in part the acquisitions that Microsoft has made, and in part also because the economy, it costs so much to make these games, developers are not going to tie their games just to Sony.
Phil: In fact, one of the store board companies like Square Enix basically said it was a mistake to release Final Fantasy VII Remaster exclusively on Sony initially.
Phil: So I was looking at one of these guys to fall out, and I thought that it was going to be Microsoft.
Phil: I think they still may, but they're still talking to talk about doing a handheld and doing a handheld, and it doesn't seem like any of these players are going to exit the scene.
Tom: What happens, just to come up with a totally different direction to this, what happens if Sony and XBox both release, essentially, their version of a Switch, right?
Tom: At a similar price point to the Switch
Phil: I think it keeps going the way it goes.
Phil: Like, for example, every Japanese business person I meet, and I meet a few, none of them have Samsung phones, none of them.
Phil: None of them have Apple phones, none, not a single one.
Phil: The Australian employees that work for the Japanese companies that have to go to Japan all the time, also do not have a Samsung or Apple phone.
Phil: What do they have?
Tom: You tell me.
Phil: They have Sony phones.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: Every single one of them has a Sony phone.
Phil: I can see the appeal.
Phil: Now, it's running some version of Android, unfortunately.
Phil: Otherwise, I'd be all over it, because Sony, there's no argument, well, you could probably argue it, but I don't think there's any argument that Sony, I'm sorry, that Sony makes exquisite electronic devices.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: In terms of design and feel.
Phil: But have you seen a Sony phone in Australia here, like anyone using a Sony phone?
Phil: If you have, it's probably-
Tom: I was unaware Sony made phones.
Phil: Exactly.
Phil: So that's why I think Sony can kind of just do what they do, and then they'll be fine because of the Japanese loyalty to their brand.
Phil: Microsoft, there's no loyalty to the Microsoft brand.
Phil: People use Game Pass because it's a good deal.
Phil: If it ceases to become a good deal, they will cease to buy it.
Phil: So to your question, and I did two episodes ago, I did an analysis of the low sales of hand-held devices outside of Nintendo's success.
Phil: Everyone thinks it's successful, but really, Switch has been the only success in this sphere.
Phil: I think Microsoft will release one, but I think if they do what Steam did and just basically make it a big picture Game Pass machine, I think it could have some appeal.
Phil: I mean, people use Microsoft products.
Phil: I think almost every non-retired Australian uses a Microsoft product every single day.
Phil: So there's something to that and people associating Microsoft with technology.
Phil: So I think Sony will do it.
Phil: I think it'd be a success in Japan, but they'd probably price it out of the market elsewhere.
Phil: The PlayStation Portal has been a phenomenal success in the West and in Japan, and all that does is stream games from your PlayStation
Tom: I think it would also put Nintendo in an interesting position as well, because they would be once again stuck half a generation.
Tom: Well, they haven't really caught up this generation, but for argument's sake, we'll say half a generation in the past, with potentially a similar price product.
Tom: Yes.
Tom: Unless Sony and Xbox were to be delivering something significantly more powerful, but with the length of video game consoles lifespan these days, it could be that the direction they move into is rather than releasing something significantly more powerful.
Tom: The point of the next console might be hand-held functionality.
Phil: It might be hand-held functionality, and it might-
Phil: remember Microsoft made that statement that their next console will be the biggest technological jump in console history, right?
Phil: And everyone went, oh, wow, it's going to be so powerful.
Phil: And I think it's going to be streaming.
Phil: I think it's going to be pushing game pass through streaming.
Phil: And yeah, that's not going to work everywhere.
Phil: It certainly won't work in Australia, and it won't work in most parts of the United States.
Phil: But they'll also have a component where you can download the games as well.
Phil: But if they can make their hand-held be a thin client, they can also play games locally if you have to, you know, that might be their big innovation.
Phil: But yeah, I mean, it will put Nintendo in a difficult position because there will be at least a generation behind when Sony and Microsoft release their new systems.
Phil: I still think this hand-held concept has to prove itself and that we could be heading for a big fall.
Phil: But, you know, you look at the profusion of tablets in life, people using iPads and tablets, you know, constantly.
Phil: If they can think of the, if the general market thinks of these things as being a tablet for gaming, you know, then I think that you could have, this could be the form factor for the foreseeable future.
Phil: Certainly, buying a box from an electronic store and shoving it under your TV and then buying controllers for it is not, it's not the future, right?
Phil: It's just not a part of regular consumers thinking that you would do, that you would buy a specific thing.
Phil: Like people don't go out, people were used to buying, you know, a DVD player, for example, or a VHS player or a stereo system.
Phil: And that's where a console sort of fit into it.
Phil: Oh, I buy this thing to play my records, I buy this thing to watch movies, or I buy this thing to play games.
Phil: Well, now those other things have gone away.
Phil: They're still there for the hobbyists, obviously.
Phil: You can still go out and buy these things, because, you know, there are still people that collect Blu-rays and records.
Phil: But I think the concept of a console that you buy and put under your TV is going to go away.
Phil: But if you've got a hand held that docks to your TV, it makes a lot more sense.
Tom: Interesting times.
Phil: Even more interesting, story number two, this credit goes to Eurogamer.
Phil: Yeah, this is another question.
Phil: Looks like most Switch third-party physical releases don't have the game on the card.
Phil: So, Nintendo has released this game key card format for their games, or at least it's an option.
Phil: So, it's a physical release you buy that has a download key rather than the full game data.
Phil: And that's going to be a pretty common sight because of the third-party games announced for Japan are all game key cards.
Phil: Now, you have to imagine that this means for the menu, for the publishers, this is obviously the cheapest choice because they don't have to buy high-capacity memory cards.
Phil: They can buy the lowest-capacity memory card because we're talking about a game key that's something like characters, as opposed to having to buy multi-gig SD cards essentially for each individual game.
Phil: So, you can see why third parties are doing it.
Phil: The only exception is CD.
Tom: Wouldn't they just have the code in the box printed?
Phil: Well, it's actually embedded in the card, which is good.
Phil: This has at least one advantage over code in a box release in that these aren't locked to a specific user account.
Phil: So, I can give you my Nintendo Switch game key card, and now you can use it on your system, and it's not checking to see if you're the legitimate user or not.
Phil: You'll just put that into your Switch and it'll go, oh, you need to download the files, and it'll let you download the files.
Tom: Okay, that's good.
Phil: Well, it's good for game sharing.
Phil: I mean, because you're essentially allowing people to photocopy your game as many times as they want.
Tom: Sorry, I previously had no interest in the Switch now I have some interest in the Switch
Phil: Yeah, I think there's going to be probably a few websites.
Phil: Now, the game key cards, I don't think that the actual codes will be visible or something that the user will be able to see and copy.
Phil: You'd probably need some device to dump the data onto, and obviously, they've got security around that.
Phil: But, you know, I mean, it does allow you at least to resell it, as opposed to, you know, once you get to just get it, use a code, you've used it and you can't resell it.
Phil: So, yeah, this is not surprising at all.
Phil: It won't delight physical collectors, but I can see why the publishers are doing it.
Phil: And of course, this will drive down the cost of games for the consumer.
Phil: Ha, ha, ha.
Phil: You know, it'll just make things better for the publisher and worse for the consumer because then the consumer has to pay for the download and the publisher gets to enjoy the larger margin of not having to buy a...
Tom: Hopefully, it will result in low used game prices though as well.
Phil: Yeah, hopefully.
Phil: I think GameStop is happy about this.
Phil: EV Games, I don't think they're actually happy about anything.
Phil: In other news, final prices were announced for Switch games and it was available for pre-order in North America finally.
Phil: Well, the rest of the world has been pre-ordering it now for about a month.
Phil: Prices stayed the same as were advertised.
Phil: However, accessories are going to cost more than they had thought.
Phil: So, you want to guess what a Switch Pro Controller costs in USD?
Tom: What did the first one cost?
Phil: In USD, I think it cost about bucks.
Tom: Okay.
Tom: Let's say
Phil: Yep, bucks.
Phil: If you want to buy another Joycon pair, it is
Phil: You want to buy a strap for that?
Tom: Weren't they relatively cheap on the Switch ?
Phil: They were.
Phil: I mean, it wasn't like you just go out and buy a billion of them, but they were affordable.
Phil: I think in part because they broke so often that Nintendo had to concede something.
Tom: And you couldn't use them as a mouse either.
Phil: No.
Phil: If you want to buy a strap for that Joycon or just a single strap, you want to guess how much USD?
Tom: Twenty.
Phil: Oh, yeah.
Phil: Fourteen bucks.
Tom: Okay.
Phil: Fourteen bucks, which would be-
Tom: So it's a bargain.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: That'd be about $Australian.
Phil: You buy the camera for a bargain, bucks.
Phil: If you want to buy a second dock for it, bucks.
Phil: Hey, how about a carrying case and screen protector?
Phil: Forty bucks.
Phil: That's pretty good.
Phil: But if you want to all in one-
Tom: For a carrying case, is that good?
Phil: For bucks, if it's a good one.
Tom: I've got a Switch carrying case that is, I think was $Australian.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: These are all US prices, aren't they?
Phil: US.
Phil: Exactly.
Tom: So I wouldn't say $is a good price for a carrying case.
Phil: No.
Phil: Well, you should.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: But what about the all-in-one carrying case?
Phil: Probably has places for you to put the games.
Tom: Does that include the console?
Phil: No.
Phil: That's a mere $USD.
Tom: It carries everything.
Tom: I can put more games than I have in it.
Phil: Then you can get a gigawatt memory card, as you call it, for Switch
Phil: That's a mere $USD, which I think is pretty fair, really.
Tom: I assume you can just buy any SD card?
Phil: Yeah, you can, but this is the official Microsoft branded Mario's faces on it, that you'll never see once you put it in the device.
Phil: bucks.
Phil: All right.
Phil: That's not okay.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: We'll move on to story three, shall we?
Phil: Oblivion Shadow Drops.
Phil: So Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion Remastered was shadow dropped this week, and it's available not only on-
Tom: So it's not Oblivion Shadow Drop, that's not the game?
Phil: No.
Phil: It's not only available on Xbox and PC, but also on PlayStation
Phil: The remaster features updated visuals, improved mechanics, and all post-release DLC, which is pretty cool, and it is available on Xbox Game Pass for free if you of course subscribe for money.
Phil: This of course was no surprise.
Phil: Rumors about this remake surfaced in in the remaster.
Phil: There's been stories about this going on and on.
Phil: The remaster was actually leaked last week as well, and then the official Xbox support account gave out a release date.
Phil: So I'm not sure you could call this a shadow drop, but at least they said the game exists and it's available now.
Phil: There's a deluxe edition and a normal edition.
Phil: The normal edition sells on Steam for Australian AUD, and comes with some, the normal version comes with free horse armor, which is a great improvement on the original release.
Tom: Did you say the deluxe version comes with free horse armor?
Phil: No, the normal version comes with free horse armor.
Phil: You do not have to spend $to plate your horse.
Phil: This was developed, I just want to bring to people's attention, that this was co-developed by Bethesda in a company called Virtuous.
Phil: I had not heard of Virtuous, so I looked them up and they basically provide video game development support.
Phil: They're based in Singapore, they've got like employees and offices, and they worked on things like NieR Automata, League of Legends, Bioshock, The Collection, and Marvel Avengers.
Phil: So it sounds like they've probably done all of the work here.
Phil: So yeah, I thought that was pretty good.
Phil: I beat the original.
Phil: I found The Elder Scrolls IV to be, we did talk about Oblivion last episode.
Tom: But-
Tom: Can we take credit for the re-release?
Phil: I think so.
Phil: I think finally they said, well, Game Under Podcast is talking about it.
Phil: I think we're at the crest of the wave.
Phil: I don't think we're going to get much more hype.
Phil: Now is the time.
Phil: Drop, drop, drop.
Phil: They picked up the phone to Singapore and said, get it out.
Phil: I found the Oblivion to be a lot more, I don't know.
Phil: Maybe it's just my impression.
Phil: I thought it was a lot shorter and a lot more linear than say Morrowind or Skyrim.
Phil: It seemed much more like a video game.
Phil: I think that's why it was so successful.
Phil: It did launch with the Xbox and it was the game that I picked up with my one-to-one was available.
Phil: It did look phenomenal and people who had never played Elder Scrolls before were playing it.
Phil: It's fondly remembered.
Phil: I think it's getting a fairly good response.
Phil: But we'll just go into what we've been playing.
Phil: You've actually had an opportunity to play this, is that right?
Tom: Well, on your point, I think the main quest line in Oblivion was very short compared to us, a standard RPG, let alone an Elder Scrolls game.
Tom: That might be what you're remembering.
Tom: To me anyway, the world of the original felt a lot less interesting and detailed compared to Morrowind due to the procedural generation.
Phil: Yeah, I found that it felt very boxed in and pretty, but I see that the prettiness of it at the time carried it a long way.
Phil: I think it's a much prettier game than Skyrim, certainly.
Phil: When I say pretty, I mean in every aspect.
Phil: I mean, visually, it just seems to look better than Skyrim.
Phil: But maybe it's because Skyrim is now years old and I've got my rose-colored nostalgia glasses on for what Oblivion actually looks like.
Tom: Well, it did have a certain Vaseline Sheen to it as well.
Phil: Exactly.
Phil: And then also starting with Patrick Stewart voicing the character that quickly is just gotten rid of about four minutes into the game.
Phil: But just even starting with that.
Tom: I could only afford a certain number of lines, unfortunately.
Phil: Yeah, which was the same thing with Cyberpunk and Keanu Reeves.
Phil: And also, what was the fellow that was Metal Gear Solid?
Tom: David Hayter.
Phil: No, no, the last one, Kiefer.
Tom: Kiefer Sutherland, yes.
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
Phil: So they get paid by the word.
Phil: I wish I was.
Phil: So do you want to give your impressions of Elder Scrolls IV, the remaster?
Tom: Yep.
Tom: Well, so far, I went back to it out of curiosity because, as I said, I disliked it, let alone did not like the original version of Oblivion, yet played for hours.
Tom: So this was a exercise in introspection.
Tom: I was wondering if the remake would be able to offer me any insights into why it was, I spent hours on a game that I did not like.
Tom: And I think the answer is, it's just absolutely hilarious.
Tom: I mean, everyone knows all of the Oblivion memes, but as it opens, the opening itself is hilarious.
Tom: I think all Elder Scrolls games open with you being imprisoned or at least all the ones I have do.
Tom: But just the way the opening unfolds with Patrick Stewart appearing and giving a very disinterested yet professional performance while being surrounded by some of the most hilarious voice acting ever recorded is just absolutely beautiful.
Tom: And you then break out into this majestic, beautiful world.
Tom: Yet it turns out to be a world that is structured where you're essentially wandering through an area that looks very beautiful in which compared to other Elder Scrolls games, nothing is really happening and the dungeons are essentially disconnected from the world as are the towns, which is the case in other Elder Scrolls games as well.
Tom: Yet a lot more happens in the interstitial sections where you're wandering from dungeon to town, so it doesn't feel like they're disconnected.
Tom: It feels like the one sort of world.
Phil: I think technically, like at the time, releasing any Bethesda game on a console, which this is still before updates were a part of the thing.
Phil: You couldn't be assured that the end user was even going to have an Internet connection.
Phil: I think on the base there was not an Ethernet port, for example.
Phil: And so I think the accomplishment of actually shipping this game on a disk is pretty remarkable.
Phil: Like the fact that they were able to ship this on a disk without a safety net, and that the game wasn't completely broken, or wasn't, I don't remember ever being broken.
Phil: I think, you know, that is an accomplishment.
Phil: And so while the game is perhaps more tightly focused than you or I would want it, I believe I can give them some cover because of the accomplishment of actually releasing a game on a brand new system and not having the safety net of being able to update it.
Tom: Well, there was also the original Xbox release of Morrowind.
Phil: Right.
Tom: So it's not totally unprecedented.
Tom: And you could say that the Xbox version of Morrowind is broken, but you do have to bear in mind the PC version of Morrowind is also broken.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: And to tell you the truth, I played Morrowind in its entirety on the Xbox.
Phil: And then I went out and bought the expansions on the Xbox and all the rest of it.
Phil: And then when I played it on the PC finally, it was similarly janky and broken.
Phil: So yeah, that's a very good point, though I think also, too, with what they were able to achieve with the graphics compared to the relative simplicity of Morrowind is admirable.
Phil: And you're right, they did have that practice run with Morrowind on the Xbox.
Tom: Yep, and as well as the structural thing, the gameplay as well is similarly hilarious, which applies to all Elder Scrolls games.
Tom: I think they have updated the combat in the remake.
Phil: Yeah, I read that the leveling system has been adjusted to prevent enemies from outclassing players.
Tom: Yeah, there was, I think there was something weird about how you set the difficulty level in Oblivion, which resulted in you, particularly early on, just getting absolutely slaughtered, which I found to be the case on the hardest setting in Oblivion as well.
Tom: Rats, I think, took three hits to be able to kill me and required about probably -plus hits to kill with a sword, or maybe with the bow and arrow with the Wood Elf character I chose to start the game with.
Tom: So it still has the option to be highly challenging like Oblivion did early on, but may make sense in some way.
Phil: Was you're mentioning that you play as a Wood Elf or Humblebrag?
Tom: Is that a Humblebrag?
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Is that a Humblebrag?
Phil: I don't know.
Phil: So what do you think Phil Fogg picks as the default character when he's going into these things?
Tom: Orc.
Phil: Orc?
Phil: No, no, no.
Phil: You're going to think more vanilla.
Tom: Human character, I presume.
Phil: Exactly.
Tom: Breton or Imperial.
Phil: Yes, exactly.
Phil: Yes, I always go with that.
Tom: White male Breton or Imperial.
Phil: With all power and armor.
Tom: Blonde hair and blue eyes.
Phil: The way it's supposed to be.
Phil: Now, I've also read that they've got new characters.
Phil: What we're talking about is that they said there's new character models that NPCs, enemies and playable characters have been completely redesigned.
Phil: Is that true?
Tom: I've always said it's true.
Tom: This was something I was worried about because one of the most charming things about the original is the ridiculous voice acting, which suited the character models very well.
Tom: I was thinking if they're going to go for a less ridiculous look, maybe it won't work as well, but I'm happy to report that the characters in the game look suitably comical, and in a stroke of, I think, genius, while the animation is not like The Last of Us or something like that, when the voice actors are going over the top, the characters' expressions reflect this, and it is just beautiful to witness.
Phil: It does.
Phil: They've retained the original charm there.
Phil: Absolutely.
Phil: I do want to correct myself too.
Phil: I've been calling this a remaster.
Phil: This is a full-blown modernized remake.
Phil: So this has been rebuilt from the ground up, which is, you know, so this isn't just, you know, smooth looking graphics and all of that sort of thing.
Phil: They've, though, however, I'm not sure if you were able to play it at K.
Tom: I certainly could not play it at K.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Yeah, it's built on Unreal Engine
Tom: Well, we will get to the technical side of things.
Tom: I think now is a good time to, because I think this is actually the first game I've come across of that's a new release that is now challenging my graphics card a little bit.
Tom: Solely when I'm outside during the day, if I have the graphics on medium instead of low with quality instead of balanced DLSS, the frame weight will drop as low as which is clearly unacceptable.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: But you're still, what you were talking about is when the game character is outside in the middle of the day.
Tom: That's right.
Tom: Yes.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: I thought perhaps you're taking your computer outside.
Phil: No.
Phil: I was like, well, I was like, yeah, I think the grabbing.
Phil: Well, how far have you had to pair it back to like level or?
Tom: No.
Tom: It's not too much of an issue because it's mainly just as I start sprinting or turn suddenly, there's a frame drop essentially.
Tom: It's manageable.
Tom: I have been keeping it on, I think, high settings and quality DLSS.
Tom: If I'm in a dungeon or a town, it's to FPS.
Tom: Outside for the most part, it is as well.
Tom: It's just when there's a sudden change in speed or direction, there's a massive frame drop like that.
Phil: Sprinting is new in this game.
Phil: That's one of the things that they've had for it.
Tom: Yes.
Tom: The leveling, as you said, that's a totally new leveling system.
Tom: It seems to function similarly to Morrowind because I've noticed that when I'm sprinting my athletics experience is going up.
Phil: Oh, cool.
Tom: Which I think was a great system in Morrowind.
Phil: Yeah, definitely.
Phil: The more you use something, the better you get at it.
Phil: Exactly.
Phil: They've updated the UI.
Phil: Did you notice?
Tom: I did not notice because I could not remember what the UI from Oblivion looked like.
Tom: They've made it basically-
Tom: I presumed they had updated it though.
Phil: They've made it basically the same as Skyrims and Elder Scrolls Online.
Phil: Elder Scrolls Online, do I have to play that?
Phil: What do you think?
Tom: Potentially.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: So, okay.
Phil: So it sounds like you're pretty happy with it.
Tom: I am.
Tom: This would have been, I think, I made it out of the tomb, the sewer, and to the first area you're meant to get to essentially.
Tom: So I haven't really played it very much and this was going to be probably the end of my playthrough because as amusing as it is, do I really want to spend much time in Oblivion again, and the answer is no.
Tom: But then I did see, supposedly, you can complete the campaign in hours.
Tom: So I may have to attempt to do that.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: I would think that your original hours of gameplay included a lot of emergent gameplay, storytelling type stuff, mucking around.
Tom: The side quests, of course, which is generally speaking the interesting part of an Elder Scrolls game.
Phil: Much more interesting.
Phil: As you know, I don't mess around with side quests.
Phil: I remember the game being about maybe or hours long, and just sticking to the mainline story.
Phil: So yeah, so that's going to be your last little...
Phil: It is the point though, isn't it?
Phil: Like, there's so much more out there to play, that if you've already played this game, would you really drop in for another even hours, which is probably what I would do these days.
Phil: I'm a little bit more interested in the world.
Phil: And I'm not sure I would, unless it was absolute, you know, unless it was less to play, but there's always more things to be playing, so.
Tom: But it would require me to stop playing the game on hard, because the combat requires some degree of effort on hard.
Tom: So it will be a question also if I continue, of whether I can live with myself if I lower the difficulty level.
Phil: I see.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: So since this is your last exit with this game, do you want to give it a score for the Diode Destiny, or is it just, you know, you've only played it for minutes.
Tom: We'll give it a provisional Diode Destiny, I think.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: And I'll get the mini-fog ready.
Phil: As regular listeners may not remember, the mini-fog is a minifigure that looks like me that I roll.
Tom: I thought that was what you called a certain part of yourself.
Phil: I don't roll out my mini-fog during the podcast.
Phil: Thank you very much.
Phil: This is the minifig, the Lego minifig, and we're going to, he basically tells the truth, whereas the Diode Destiny honestly doesn't, most of the time, it often is very low scoring.
Phil: So let's see.
Tom: Well, that would be pretty accurate for my scores, and would it not?
Phil: It would.
Tom: And the Diode Destiny gives it a two out of
Phil: Two out of ?
Phil: I thought it was going to give it a two out of
Phil: I will just roll the Mini Fogg here.
Phil: And it gives it a out of
Tom: So both low scoring this time.
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Phil: It sounds like you're impressed.
Phil: I mean, you know, you played minutes of the game.
Phil: You're not going back to it.
Phil: You know, come on.
Tom: And I would add, I would add, if anyone out there has not played Oblivion, you've got to, after all the memes, see at least a little bit of it for yourself, because it lives up to its reputation for hilarity and is a completely bizarre and I would say unique experience.
Tom: All Elder Scrolls games have this sort of insanity to them, but I think it's due to the voice acting.
Tom: Maybe Skyrim tops it.
Tom: I don't know.
Tom: But for its time, it was just an incredibly ridiculous experience.
Tom: That is, I would say, like no other game, with the exception of potentially Skyrim.
Phil: I think that's what Microsoft is betting on here or projecting is basically, there are tens of millions of people who play Skyrim, who have never played Oblivion, and basically, Oblivion is getting long in the tooth, so I think it's a fantastic time and a fantastic addition to Game Pass to give those people who have never played the game but love Skyrim an opportunity to play it.
Phil: And I think it's fantastic.
Phil: And I do want to reiterate, if you have not played it, you must play it.
Phil: You've got to do it.
Phil: It's part of the gaming law.
Phil: You have to do it, and it looks like Bethesda and Virtuous have done a good job of remaking this game.
Tom: Before we move on from The Elder Scrolls, I want to posit one final idea here, which is we all know another Elder Scrolls related meme is that there is no new Elder Scrolls game.
Tom: Now, I've been thinking, is it possible to release a new Elder Scrolls game with how inherently ridiculous Elder Scrolls is?
Tom: I don't know if it would be able to be as successful as it was in the past in the modern gaming zeitgeist.
Phil: I think the longevity of Skyrim has proven that they don't think that they can release a different game and I don't think they will.
Phil: I don't know what they're going to do with the next one.
Phil: It just basically has to be probably a palette change, a change of setting, different dragons, I guess.
Phil: I don't know.
Phil: They're obviously already working on it.
Phil: But someone out there is going to be going, guys, we're not making Minecraft
Phil: Why should we be making a Skyrim ?
Tom: Is there room for a ridiculous RPG like that anymore?
Phil: Well, there's room for Skyrim.
Phil: I mean, it's still making money.
Phil: I mean, people are still playing, tens of millions of people are still playing it every day.
Phil: I've bought at least three copies of the game at full price for various platforms.
Phil: So I think there's still a place for it.
Phil: RPGs over the last two years have really, you think about Nier Automata starting that rebirth, and people looking for more RPG type experiences.
Phil: I think a Western RPG can still work.
Phil: It just has to be a good game.
Tom: Think of all the ones that are successful like Baldur's Gate III, for example.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: It's a totally different sort of tone, and it's a much more polished, and some might say, good experience.
Phil: Oh, yeah.
Phil: I think of Skyrim.
Phil: I don't think Bethesda knows it.
Phil: I don't think that Todd Howard knows it.
Phil: I think there are people at Bethesda that do know that Morrowind, I'm sorry, I might have to call it Morrowind.
Phil: Elder Scrolls is a lot like a community play, with the people on stage taking it totally seriously while a part of the set is falling down in the background.
Phil: That's the charm of the series is that you have all these people taking it extremely seriously while a cat walk on stage, it's not supposed to be there.
Phil: I still think there's a place in the world for it.
Phil: I definitely do.
Tom: That's all I'm asking.
Tom: I'm not saying there isn't, I was just asking your opinion on whether there was.
Phil: Yeah, very much.
Phil: Well, do you want me to talk about a game that you compelled me to play?
Tom: Go ahead.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: For those who didn't listen to last episode, Tom gave a review of The Case of the Golden Idol.
Phil: I said, is this a game I should play?
Phil: Because I just told him I played this point and click game called There Is No Game and wasn't very impressed with it.
Phil: He said, I think it's a game you definitely should play.
Phil: So I went, all right.
Phil: So I looked at it and I went, he said I should play it and I should play it.
Phil: But then you made this little comment, I don't know, what did you say?
Phil: See how far you get or if you stick with it, or if you get past the first chapter or something like that?
Tom: Do you remember what you said?
Tom: I think I said, I don't know if you'd play the whole of the game or not, but you'd definitely enjoy trying it.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: So that little voice was playing in the back of my head when I was playing this game going, I'll show that little bastard.
Phil: I'm not going to give up on this game.
Phil: In fact, yeah, you are short selling it.
Phil: It's a phenomenal game.
Phil: I really like it.
Phil: I just want to describe it in my own way.
Phil: Basically, it's a whodunit.
Phil: You solve, I think, in the base game, like different murder mysteries, and they give you three static screens.
Phil: They give you three static screens, maybe two, maybe one at the very start, and then maybe four as you go on and all that sort of thing.
Phil: They give you, like you said, a book that says blank, blank, blanked.
Phil: Well, blank, blank wanted a blank.
Phil: So he asked blank, blank to get it.
Phil: When blank, blank arrived at blank, blank, blank, blank.
Phil: Then as an optional, you have to identify all the people in the scene.
Phil: If you do all the optional stuff, it makes the solving the actual case easier.
Phil: So basically, you have to examine these three screens and observe these crime scenes to get the clues from the characters through its possessions and environmental details.
Phil: That's all you've got.
Phil: That's all you've got.
Phil: So there's a dead body and you've got to figure out the murder weapon, the person who did it, the motive and how it all worked.
Phil: It sounds very simplistic, but it's actually a lot of fun and very complicated.
Phil: It requires a very basic level of logical deduction that I don't think a lot of games let you rely on, you know, and it doesn't hold your hand.
Phil: It has a hint system.
Phil: And I hope you're not drinking anything right now, I hope.
Tom: No.
Phil: I haven't used the hint system once.
Phil: And I'm in Chapter the seventh scenario.
Phil: And I did go into the hint system once, but I was like, this isn't helpful because I know the hints that they provided when I did try it, well, I guess I did try it once.
Tom: You were doing that just for journalistic integrity.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Well, it wasn't helpful at all because it's like, yeah, I knew that, I know that.
Phil: Yeah, that's not the thing I'm trying to, that's not what I'm trying to figure out.
Tom: A murder has taken place.
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
Tom: Think about who might have murdered the person.
Tom: Consider who the victim was.
Phil: Did you, when as part of your journalistic integrity, when you were going through the hint system, did you find any of it particularly helpful?
Tom: No.
Phil: Yeah, because I didn't need any help with the logical deductions.
Phil: It was more like, what is this guy's name?
Phil: Who is that guy and who is that guy?
Phil: And you have to remember that all the evidence is right in front of you.
Phil: And fortunately, and I think this is a really good game design element that they did, if there are clues in a scene, they will count them down as you reveal them.
Phil: So basically, as you go through these things, you build a vocabulary.
Phil: So if you see someone's carrying a notebook, you click on the word notebook and that will become part of your vocabulary.
Phil: So now you could say that blank, blank, okay, well, John Smith killed Mary Jane by blank, well, slapping her blank with a blank notebook.
Phil: Okay, so you put that in, it's obviously a made up scenario, and that's not the correct answer.
Phil: So you're like, okay, well, I know that the notebook is how the guy died.
Phil: So now I've just got to identify how he did it or what the identity of the people are.
Phil: Obviously, it's never as simple of a sentence as what I've just presented.
Tom: And how the notebook could have been a fatal weapon.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: And now I'm playing this on Steam Deck.
Phil: So I didn't mention about there is no game.
Phil: I'd certainly encourage someone to play that with a touch interface.
Phil: Obviously, with a PC, you can just use your mouse as well.
Phil: So with the Steam Deck, I'm using a combination of controls and touching it with my fingers.
Phil: And then my wife came in and said, what are you playing?
Phil: Because I had it up on the big screen.
Phil: Because it looks like someone got Microsoft Paint and who was about years old and started drawing stuff.
Tom: I think it looks great.
Phil: I think it looks fantastic, but it does look like it was all made in Microsoft Paint.
Phil: And so she's like, I said it's a murder mystery thing.
Phil: So of course, all she's about is murder mysteries, books, TVs, whatever it is.
Phil: If murder and mystery are not a part of it, she's not interested.
Phil: So we sort of did some coach co-op with it, and a couch co-op rather.
Phil: And she totally loves the game as well, which she is not a gamer.
Phil: So I think because it is such a raw logical deduction experience, it's the sort of thing that someone who doesn't usually play video games, if they are of a certain bent, can pick up and have fun with.
Phil: I'm disappointed that when I bought it on Steam, they had two.
Phil: They had one that was like bucks, and they had one that was like bucks.
Phil: And based on the description, the -buck one was like Game of the Year edition, or it wasn't those words, but it was like, hey, this is a pretty one.
Phil: It's got all the stuff.
Phil: And I was like, yeah, I didn't know what all the stuff is.
Phil: But then I put the base model, you go in and apparently it had two other expansions that are not included in the base model.
Phil: And I'm sorry that I didn't get that now.
Phil: So certainly when I buy the new game, I think I can still buy them separately though.
Phil: Yeah, I can.
Phil: But yeah, I've got to look into how much that's going to cost too.
Tom: I think they're only $each.
Phil: Oh, fair enough.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Well, I'll definitely do that.
Phil: Will I do that right now?
Phil: Will I do that before I buy the new game, The Rise of the Golden Idol set in the s?
Phil: Don't know.
Phil: If I buy those other two expansions, I might be sick of it by the time I get through all of those.
Phil: But we'll see.
Phil: We'll see how long this game goes for.
Phil: So yeah, thank you for the recommendation and the inspiration to keep going when times were tough.
Phil: I think I would tell anyone, this is not necessarily a point and click game.
Phil: As Tom enumerated last week, it's an Obra Dinn ripoff.
Phil: But I think this one has a lot more appeal than Obra Dinn.
Phil: They will certainly go back and give that one a try as well.
Phil: So yeah, a very good recommendation and one that I'd certainly encourage people to give a try.
Tom: Are you ready to give it a score, do you think?
Phil: I'll give you a score when I get to the very end of it.
Phil: But right now, it'd be a nine, definitely.
Phil: So I'm not going to give it an award for innovation.
Phil: I'm giving it basically an award for execution, pardon the pun.
Phil: The story is quite interesting as well.
Phil: Now, I do have to say I have cheated in one aspect.
Phil: Every time I've successfully managed to identify everyone, I have broken out my smartphone and taken a screenshot of that because this is a continuum.
Phil: So there are characters that go from one scene to the next.
Phil: It's a mystery that takes place over years, I think.
Tom: I believe I did mention one of the annoying things about the game was having to fill in the name of characters you already know the identity of.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: And that was annoying, especially for the lesser characters.
Phil: And especially because this does take place over years, you'll see a character like Edmund Cloudsley as a young man.
Phil: And then you might not recognize him in years' time sort of thing.
Phil: But anyway, so yeah, so that's my experience with it.
Tom: Well, from one puzzle game to the next, are you familiar with Blue Prince?
Phil: I'm familiar with the artist formerly known as Prince.
Tom: Wasn't he the Purple Prince?
Phil: He was indeed the Purple Prince.
Tom: I'm talking about the Blue Prince.
Phil: The only thing I know about this game is that it's blown up.
Phil: And it's immensely frustrating as someone who gets most of their news or reviews from podcasts because everyone says, this game is so great, but I can't tell you anything about it because it would be a spoiler.
Phil: And it's like, okay, this is going to be my game of the year, but I can't tell you why.
Tom: People actually said that because that doesn't make any, that doesn't make any fucking sense.
Tom: Do they normally, when they're talking about puzzle games, simply describe what the puzzle is and its solution?
Phil: No, yeah, possibly.
Tom: That's the only scenario in which I can imagine they wouldn't be able to say anything about the game.
Phil: This is the same thing that happened to The Witness, Joe Blow's game.
Phil: This game is so good, I can't talk about it.
Phil: It's like, well, okay.
Phil: This seems to be the puzzle adventure problem for people talking about your game.
Tom: On that point as well, I think in my anti-chamber review, review of potentially the greatest puzzle game of all time, I in fact had an entire section describing a puzzle and the solution I came up for that puzzle.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: I almost remember it.
Phil: There was nothing spoiled.
Phil: There was nothing spoiled at all.
Phil: You know what's weird?
Phil: Because I learn about games through podcasts.
Phil: Just listening most of the time.
Phil: That's how I usually find out about people's experience with a game.
Phil: I always have this vision in my mind as to what the graphics are.
Phil: When I saw the images of this game, I thought, this looks like the game you just mentioned.
Phil: Anti-chamber.
Phil: For listeners not familiar, you can search at our website gameunder.net.
Phil: It's spelled anti, like A-N-T-I chamber, not anti-chamber, the room before a room.
Phil: Do you see where I'm coming from with that?
Tom: Yep, definitely.
Tom: One of the rooms in the game is the anti-chamber.
Tom: One of the only permanent rooms, or one of the only permanent rooms, I think.
Tom: So perhaps that is in fact referencing anti-chamber, because it didn't need to be an anti-chamber that was the passage from one room to the next.
Tom: There are other types of rooms that can also serve that purpose.
Tom: They might also have called it a vestibule for that matter.
Phil: Or a foyer or something.
Phil: Hey, now, I just want to frame this game for people who maybe haven't heard of it.
Phil: Blue Prince is spelled Prince, like the artist formerly known as, not P-R-I-N-T-S, which obviously it's a wordplay of, when you go on to describe what this game is.
Phil: It's a puzzle adventure game with roguelike elements.
Phil: It's developed by, it's an indie game, it's developed by someone I've never heard of before called Dogu Bomb, and published by a publisher I've never heard of called Raw Fury, and released in April th for PlayStation Windows and Xbox Series X and S.
Phil: It's received critical acclaim with reviewers praising its intricate puzzle design, and compelling mystery and unique blend of rogue-like mechanics.
Phil: So yeah, one aspect of this is it is a rogue-like.
Phil: It's got complex problem-solving, immersive world-building and rewarding gameplay loop, and people have compared it to Return of the Obra Dinn and Outer Wilds, a game that you also, you loved Outer Wilds, didn't you?
Tom: I think I played a little bit of it and didn't like it at all, so never continued.
Phil: Okay, because I bought it on the basis of your review, and I didn't like it at all either, because I found out-
Tom: I don't think I've reviewed the Outer Wilds.
Phil: We did.
Phil: We did a podcast on it, and it-
Tom: I don't think so.
Phil: Well, there's only one way to find out.
Phil: The Outer Worlds-
Tom: Here's the typing.
Phil: The Outer Wilds, not the Outer Wilds.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: It's a Metroidvania, it's terrible.
Phil: Absolutely terrible.
Tom: Your search didn't match any results.
Tom: Try a different search.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: All right.
Phil: Well, I'll get to the bottom of this because I bought it on the basis of your recommendation.
Phil: Absolutely.
Tom: You may be thinking of the Outer World, perhaps?
Phil: Which one was that?
Tom: That's not what it's called.
Tom: That was an Obsidian RPG, the science fiction-
Phil: No, the Outer Worlds is the RPG, and I bought that as well.
Phil: I thought, yeah, Outer Wilds was your recommendation.
Phil: Anyway, it doesn't matter to me.
Tom: It definitely was not my recommendation.
Phil: So here we go, Obra Dinn, man.
Phil: It's getting a lot of rip-offs.
Phil: So I did not expect this game to look like it did at all.
Phil: It's basically like a source engine game, right?
Tom: I don't know if it's a source.
Tom: Is it source engine?
Phil: I don't think so.
Tom: I think it would be Unreal or Unity.
Tom: These days Unreal, you would assume.
Phil: Well, tell us about the game.
Tom: Well, first, I have to preface my review by stating that I will be talking about the puzzles, which are the gameplay of the game.
Tom: So if talking about gameplay is a spoiler for you, you shouldn't listen to these impressions.
Tom: I'll leave the gameplay to the end.
Tom: Let's start off, in fact, not talking about the gameplay.
Tom: Let's discuss this game as if speaking about gameplay was a spoiler.
Tom: So as you'll note, the graphical style is cell shaded.
Phil: Right.
Phil: I do want to say just we do have chapter markers in this show, so you will be able to skip the spoilers when we get to it.
Phil: So just if you've got a modern podcast player, you just skip once you see a flag up a spoiler, okay?
Tom: I think it's set in the s, if I recall correctly, probably just so that they could have CRT monitors in the game.
Tom: That appears to be the only significance of that, given the older aesthetic to things, both fashion-wise in terms of the protagonist clothes and also the mansion.
Tom: There is a mansion in the game.
Tom: I won't mention what relationship the mansion bears to gameplay, but there is a mansion.
Tom: There's writing in the game, there's letters you can read.
Tom: The letters, generally speaking, are not interesting to read in and of themselves.
Tom: There's a plot.
Tom: The story actually is that this player has received an inheritance, which is the mansion, but to be able to inherit the mansion, he has to perform a task, but because that task is related to the gameplay, I will unfortunately be unable to tell you what that task is.
Tom: There is sound and music as well.
Tom: I think the music, there's not much you can say about the music because the music also relates to the gameplay in the sense that it changes depending on what is occurring in the game.
Tom: I can't really say much about the music either.
Tom: But I can give you, I think, my editorial opinion on whether the game is good or not.
Phil: What about the roguelike elements?
Phil: I mean, that seems different.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: Roguelike elements are part of the game play, so unfortunately, I can't talk about those either.
Phil: All right.
Phil: Well, it seems like we should probably move into quote spoiler territory.
Tom: I think we're ready to roll the die of destiny.
Phil: There you go.
Phil: No, you can't do that.
Tom: So we're ready to head into spoiler territories, are we?
Phil: Yep.
Tom: Okay.
Tom: So essentially, the way the Roguelike element of the game's function is, as per the title, the house, there's an entry to the house that is the starting room, and around that room, there's a grid set of tiles.
Tom: Each time you reach a doorway, this tile gets built into a room, and you have three randomly chosen rooms that you can turn the door you're opening into.
Tom: So when I say randomly chosen, the way to think of it is you have a deck of cards, and the cards have a certain number of rooms in them of several different types, and three cards are taken from the deck, and you've got to choose one of them.
Tom: So the Roguelike Element is basically a card game, and every day you have, I think it's numbers of steps that you can explore the mansion with, and a step is used up every time you enter or exit a room, including backtracking.
Tom: So when those numbers of steps are used up, the day ends and all the rooms you've built disappear, and you start again from scratch, essentially.
Phil: It sounds terrible.
Tom: Now in terms of puzzle solving, the first two initial puzzles you'll encounter are a division, subtraction, multiplication, and addition puzzle, which takes place on a billiard board, where there's one to and you can click on the numbers, one to which will be the result of each equation, and you've just got to work out the equation, and that's one of the puzzles.
Tom: Another puzzle is in a room where there are three locked cases.
Tom: In one of the three locked cases, there are gems, and gems are used to be able to draft the better rooms in the game.
Tom: One of the boxes, sorry, up to two boxes can be telling the truth or a lie.
Tom: They've got a message written on top of the box, which might be, just as an example, the blue box contains the gems, and the other box will say the blue box doesn't contain the gems, and another box will say both boxes are lying, something like that.
Phil: Yeah, I think Shakespeare did something like that a few hundred years ago.
Tom: It's Shakespearean writing in the game, you might say.
Phil: Is there any puzzles where you rotate the tiles on a grid, so all the pipes are connected into a single group?
Tom: There's a puzzle where you are rotating pipes to get pipes connected.
Phil: You're kidding.
Phil: No.
Phil: Is there also where you have to drop three?
Phil: There's three different colored gems that come from the top of the screen to the bottom, you've got to move them around, or align three pieces of candy that will then disappear to allow the other candy pieces to drop?
Tom: No.
Phil: There's a lost opportunity.
Tom: Sadly not.
Phil: This game sounds hack.
Tom: We will continue, we will continue because outside of these enthralling puzzles, there are also, I think, much broader puzzles that you gradually find clues for throughout the house that relate to combining certain rooms to be able to do certain things.
Tom: Those are vaguely more interesting than the minute-to-minute puzzle solving, which I think is horrendously bad.
Tom: And due to the nature of the game where you repeatedly are running the mansion again and again and again to be trying to achieve certain goals, one of them being find the mysterious room that will allow you to take on your inheritance, you're constantly doing this shitty fucking subtraction division maths game, you're repeatedly doing this shitty fucking which box is lying or not game, an infinite number of times, and the maths puzzle gets progressively more and more difficult.
Tom: It's not that it gets difficult to solve, it just becomes longer to solve because there are more steps in the maths equation.
Phil: Well, is there at least, do you solve a puzzle by moving three matches to create five squares?
Tom: I don't think so.
Tom: But there's a puzzle where you have the sliding tiles that you have to get in the correct order.
Tom: So there's that puzzle.
Phil: The subtraction division puzzle though.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: You're saying that they do that more than once.
Tom: You have to do that every single time you do a run, if you want to get the prize that is hidden behind it, which you probably will.
Tom: Because it's usually keys which you need.
Phil: So when you do a run, let's just say you're starting a run through this mansion, and you go to the door on your left, is it always going to be the blue room where you're doing the pipe puzzle or do they change where the rooms are every time?
Tom: No.
Tom: There are three permanent rooms in the mansion that I'm aware of anyway, which is the foyer, the antechamber, and you unlock another floor known as the foundation, which you can stick into certain place in the mansion of your choosing.
Tom: Those are the only three permanent rooms.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: So second question, if there is a blue room with a goose in it, a goose doll, it may not always be the first door on the left, but will you run into that same room in a different run, in a different place and it will have the same puzzle in it?
Tom: Yes.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: So the rooms themselves, you walk into the room and go, ah, this is the goose room.
Phil: I know how to do this puzzle.
Tom: Yes.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: So there's a certain number of rooms.
Phil: So obviously as you do run after run after run, you're going to get better at it because you're going to, basically, you'll be more familiar with the rooms and you'll come across rooms that you haven't seen before and you'll have to figure them out.
Phil: So how do they limit the run?
Phil: Is it a time limit or is it the number of rooms you go in?
Tom: The number of steps you have.
Phil: Number of steps?
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: So how many steps do you take in a room?
Tom: One step.
Phil: Oh, okay.
Phil: So it is the number of rooms.
Phil: Yes.
Phil: But if you're trying to find all of the rooms, and they limit the number of rooms you can visit, how do you do that?
Phil: How do you get through that?
Tom: Well, the other thing that's occurring is there are permanent upgrades you can get.
Tom: So most generally speaking, most of the items and so on are limited to the run you are in.
Tom: But as you were going along, you find inheritance tokens which give you coins that you start the day with.
Tom: You unlock outside of the mansion, there are more permanent rooms that you're able to unlock, which give you other things like more steps to start the day with, and gems that you start the day with, things like that.
Tom: So there are permanent upgrades.
Tom: Additionally, you find upgrade disks in the game, which if you also find a computer to, you can then permanently upgrade certain types of rooms.
Tom: You also discover new types of rooms, which are permanently added to your deck of rooms as well.
Tom: So as you were going along, you are unlocking things that allow you to explore longer and more easily each day.
Phil: So the fact that you're able, this has been described as a rogue-like, but it's actually a rogue-like, because you get to keep your upgrades, basically.
Tom: Only some of them.
Phil: Well, now, you've described to me, I said it sounds pretty hack, the puzzle sound hack as, and I mean, I like the overall conceit of the game, but the day-to-day playing of it, I mean, it must be pretty good if people are saying it's going to be the game of the year.
Phil: It must be a pretty good hook.
Tom: Well, here's the thing with roguelikes and the structure of a roguelike.
Tom: The thing that is addictive about gambling and most forms of addiction in general anyway, is not reinforcement, but the possibility of reinforcement.
Tom: So if you add a randomizing element to a game, you are automatically making it enjoyable whether the game is fucking stupid or not.
Phil: That's a good point that I've never heard of before because people call this, well, just one more run game.
Phil: But what they're talking about is, let me just put one more dollar into the slot machine.
Phil: Just one more and maybe I'll win.
Phil: Just one more, maybe I can do better.
Phil: Now see, I haven't had much experience with roguelikes other than like Slay the Spire and another game I've been playing recently as well, which I completely like.
Phil: But I don't have that gambling dopamine release.
Phil: I'm playing it because I liked Magic the Gathering.
Phil: When I don't win at Magic the Gathering, I'm not like, oh, let's just go one more round because I've got to win.
Phil: I like it because I like it.
Phil: When I'm done with it, I just put it down.
Phil: Like Bellatro, there's another one that I've gotten into.
Phil: That hook doesn't appeal to my personality, though it's starting to make sense now why people say all the fantastic things they say about Slay the Spire, and Bellatro, and now Blue Prince.
Phil: This is the next iteration, or this is the next thing to come along that reminds them of those two other games which have had tremendous critical response.
Phil: Yeah, okay, so these people are basically gambling addicts.
Tom: That's the only reason I can justify the love for the game.
Phil: If you think about it, what does every gambler think when they're playing something?
Phil: They think that they're learning something that will help them the next time around, right?
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: So if you're going into a room going, oh yeah, the blue room, I know how to solve this puzzle.
Phil: This will help me win.
Phil: It's kicking into that same thing.
Phil: Dumb people who play blackjack, don't just sit there and enjoy it.
Phil: They go, oh yeah.
Phil: I think this next time around, okay, yep, I've learned from my mistake.
Phil: I'll do better next time.
Phil: That's interesting.
Phil: That's interesting.
Phil: I've never drawn the link between rogue likes and the dopamine of gambling addiction.
Phil: That's fantastic.
Phil: Good point, man.
Tom: The other issue I would add with having a structure like this is, even if it does give you that enjoyment, is there are better puzzles than the ones I've described.
Tom: The problem is, for me anyway, if I encountered a better puzzle due to the other thing that this implies which is the feeling of scarcity, some of the times I could be bothered solving it, some of the times I couldn't be bothered solving it because I know, I'm not going to get this fucking room or this combination of rooms again for who knows how the fuck along.
Tom: I'm just going to look up how to do it because I can't be bothered wasting another two hours just to get back to this thing when I figured out what the solution was.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: It's a structure that to me is just totally anti-ethical to making a interesting or enjoyable puzzle-solving experience.
Phil: Or you could say antithetical, in fact.
Tom: Indeed.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Like I always say, once you go into the Internet for every puzzle or for any puzzle in a game, it's kind of like, are you playing the game or is the game playing you?
Phil: And that's when I just put it away.
Phil: Now, I've recently started using a notebook for games like this, like when I was playing Spiritfarer.
Phil: And the game that we were just talking about, the Golden Idol, the Case of the Golden Idol, I thought, oh yeah, I'll have to break out the notebook for this.
Phil: But you don't because of the tools they provide you are all there sort of thing.
Phil: You don't have to remember, oh, this guy was that or that guy was this.
Phil: So people are describing this as a notebook game.
Phil: It sounds tiresome to me.
Phil: But now that you've explained the gambling addiction components of it, that makes all the sense in the world.
Phil: The only thing I'm disappointed with the developer is that they didn't involve some sort of pay-to-win microtransactions.
Phil: That would have been pretty good.
Phil: I'd like to see Joe Blow, who apparently put all the money he made from Bastian, not Bastian.
Tom: Braid.
Phil: Braid into The Witness, and then The Witness was critically well-received and commercially well-received, but apparently still not good enough for what he was doing.
Phil: I'd like to see him revisit, like come back to Witness, but include these kinds of elements where people go, oh, this is too hard.
Phil: Just click here and there's a loot box, and there's a pretty good chance that you'll get the solution.
Phil: If you have the right sound effects, people will do it.
Phil: If you have those Poker Machine sound effects, I've seen my own daughter playing Candy Crush, or even Pac-Man Champion Edition, which she also loves because it's got that Pachinko soundtrack going on with sound effects and fireworks, and that's all she needs.
Phil: It's like, yeah, I'll get through this level.
Phil: I get fireworks.
Phil: I got fireworks.
Phil: My daughter doesn't sound like that, obviously.
Phil: But yeah, right.
Phil: So it sounds like you're more up on this game than I am.
Tom: I'm very much not up on the game, I would say.
Tom: I've got to talk about two more puzzles and how my playing of the game ended, which was very poetic indeed.
Tom: An example of one of the more complex puzzles, which again, I think goes to show, it is a notebook-taking game, but not so much a puzzle game in a sense.
Tom: So one of the permanent upgrades to the mansion you get is there, it unlocks an area where every day you can draft a room that gives you a bonus.
Tom: So one of these rooms opens out into an underground tomb, where there are a series of statues.
Tom: And if you open the series of statues in a certain order, they let you open another door, which takes you to another area.
Tom: To work out what order the statues are opened in, you look at the church in the mansion, which has the statues with Roman numerals next to them.
Tom: So the puzzle is essentially just noticing that the statues are there and that they've got a number against them.
Tom: Thus, you open them in a certain order.
Tom: So that's an example of one of the more complicated puzzles in the game.
Tom: It's still not, I would say, a particularly interesting puzzle.
Tom: Now, here's my major issue with the game, which just annoyed me throughout my playthrough.
Tom: So I went through there.
Tom: I went to the new area.
Tom: There was something I could move in that area.
Tom: I moved it a bit, not all the way, didn't know what to do with it, so then left.
Tom: Turns out at the end of the game, you've got to go to not that area, but you from the house end up in that area.
Tom: If you haven't moved that thing, you're stuck.
Tom: So after finally getting to nearly the end of the game, I discovered I had to move this fucking piece of shit thing and hadn't done it, which meant I would have to, before getting back to the place I had been, which was relying again on a reasonable amount of luck, get that other ****ing room, go back to it and move the ****ing thing.
Tom: So I thought, okay, I'm basically at the end of the game, I may as well do this.
Tom: I open the game the next morning to play it.
Tom: I get distracted by a YouTube video.
Tom: The game's on in the background at the main menu.
Tom: All of a sudden, the screen turns black and the intro begins playing.
Tom: I go back to the game, I skip the intro, I'm at day one.
Tom: I quit, I go to the main menu.
Tom: The only option is new game back to day one again.
Tom: So in the most brilliant moment of RNG, my save was overwritten when I was at the end of the game through completely inexplicable circumstances.
Phil: Are you sure it wasn't like a pretense that the game is put up?
Tom: I don't know because what do you mean?
Tom: If you leave it on the main menu.
Phil: You're sure it's not part of the game?
Tom: I don't think it's part of the game.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: You don't think that they do the thing where you just got to the end of the game, but you haven't quite finished it.
Phil: Now, the next time you go in, now they're going to pretend the game.
Tom: I don't think so.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Okay.
Tom: But if it was, I give them credit because I thought it was absolutely hilarious and the perfect note to end my Blue Prince experience on.
Phil: I've got to tell you my long experience of playing games for review.
Phil: Nothing pleases me more than when I get to the end of a tedious game and there's a glitch that gives me the ability to say, well, I couldn't finish it, so because of this glitch, I'm out.
Tom: Exactly.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: It's a good out.
Phil: It was a beautiful moment.
Phil: Any other points before you give this one a score?
Tom: I don't think so.
Tom: I think I'm ready for the Diode Destiny to roll.
Phil: I am not going to use the Minifog on this one unless it is in extreme need of correction.
Phil: So give it a roll.
Tom: Gets a nine out of
Phil: Okay.
Phil: I'm breaking out the Minifog.
Phil: No, you're not walking out of here with a nine.
Phil: No, no.
Phil: This game got a two out of according to the Minifog of correction.
Tom: So it's just as good as the Oblivion Remaster.
Phil: Oh, come on now.
Tom: At this stage.
Phil: Not quite.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Well, that's going to close out this episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: We've been talking about video games online since
Phil: We've had the website since
Phil: So there's a lot of resource.
Tom: That's our slogan, I believe.
Tom: We've been talking about video games online since
Phil: Yeah, it's got some legs and it reflects our level of literary accomplishment.
Phil: The website has been up since and it's full of resources.
Phil: So visit gameunder.net if you'd like to listen to back issues or look at our reviews up there.
Phil: Or if you'd like to submit a question, just punch in a question on the comment section on their homepage.
Phil: That is the front page.
Phil: Thanks again for listening to and.
Phil: Thanks for listening to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: I am Phil Fogg.
Tom: I'm Tom Towers.