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0:00:16 Intro
0:01:10 Olympic Coverage
0:01:32 Chumpy Pullen Obituary
0:05:18 Best Shark Games
0:07:22 Olypic Skateboarding
0:08:49 News - Braid Remaster Sells Poorly
0:23:53 News - Game Informer Shuts Down
0:29:17 News - The PS4 Problem
0:41:25 What Playing - A Plague Tale Innocence
0:57:09 What Playing - Baldur's Gate 3
0:57:25 Boss Battles
1:00:44 How it All Started - Halo, GTA, Tekken
1:13:35 Sky Children of Light Olympics
1:18:26 Email
Transcript
WEBVTT
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Tom: I'm Tom Towers, and I'm joined for the first time by Kamala Harris.
Phil: No, no, it's Kamala, don't be racist.
Phil: If you say Kamala, you're racist and sexist.
Phil: It's Kamala.
Tom: How are you sexist?
Tom: I understand the potential racism angle.
Phil: Well, any criticism of a female candidate is sexist.
Tom: I think it's racist to assume that Kamala is a criticism.
Phil: Well, I think, I'm just telling you what people are saying.
Phil: This episode of The Game Under Podcast has gotten off to a contentious start.
Phil: Look, I didn't start this, all right?
Phil: I'm just sitting here pleasantly, waiting for the show to start, watching the Olympics.
Phil: Have you been watching the Olympics from France?
Tom: I have been watching the Olympics.
Phil: Quite a bit?
Tom: Reasonable amount, I'd say.
Phil: Yeah, I'd say I've been partaking a reasonable amount.
Tom: I watched the women's skateboarding and some of the men's, but not the final in the men's.
Phil: And how is Australia doing?
Tom: I think Australia won gold in both.
Phil: But it wouldn't be a Game Under show without us talking about the Olympics.
Phil: It was just years ago, I know, in episode
Phil: And I recently listened to it because we were talking about what Edith Finch lies, Dear Esther?
Phil: No, Dear Esther.
Phil: We're talking about Dear Esther.
Phil: And we happened to be talking about Chumpton Pullen, one of the Australian skateboarders at the time.
Phil: And I don't know what long convoluted story you were going into about him.
Phil: But we did spend an inordinate amount of time talking about him.
Phil: I think mostly because of his name, Chumpee Tuggin or Chumpee Pullen or...
Phil: What's his name?
Tom: Chumpee Pullen.
Phil: Chumpee Pullen, yeah.
Phil: So how is he doing in skateboarding this year?
Tom: He doesn't skateboard.
Tom: He snowboarded before his untimely death.
Phil: Untimely death?
Tom: Correct.
Phil: Okay, did this happen at this Olympics or?
Tom: This happened in I believe.
Phil: Okay, but in he was in the Olympics, so he couldn't have been an elderly fellow.
Tom: No, I believe he was when he died.
Phil: That's too young.
Tom: We can actually say that he was young when he died.
Phil: Was it snowboard related?
Tom: It was not snowboard related.
Phil: Shark bite, shark related.
Tom: That's close, but it was not shark related.
Phil: That's close.
Phil: Octopus.
Tom: No.
Phil: Sting ray, like that other fellow who died.
Tom: No.
Phil: Steve Harvey?
Phil: Steve Irwin.
Phil: Steve Irwin.
Tom: He died doing what he loved.
Phil: He did die doing what he loved, attacking a poor sting ray.
Phil: So Chumpy, I've got his name right, right?
Phil: Chumpy Pullen?
Tom: That's correct.
Phil: Okay, because I thought it was something different.
Phil: So Chumpy Pullen, come on, tell us, how did he die?
Tom: I just want to mention one of his other achievements outside of snowboarding.
Tom: He apparently was the lead singer in a reggae band named Love Charlie.
Phil: Okay, that's not a good name for a reggae band.
Tom: No, it's a great open, it's a great life achievement until you see the name of the band.
Phil: I think I have more respect for people who are in scar bands, you know, because you get the horns, it takes a lot more effort, I feel.
Tom: Bear in mind he was a winter Olympian, so he's at least gone for a summer themed.
Phil: Yeah, well like the Jamaican, the Disney movie about the Jamaicans who go in the toboggan.
Phil: Cool runnings.
Tom: Bob Sleight, yeah.
Phil: Yeah, Bob Sleight, cool runnings.
Phil: It's incredible how I can only get % of this content actually correct and you know what I'm talking about.
Tom: That's why I'm here, essentially.
Phil: Yeah, break the suspense.
Phil: How did Chumpy die?
Tom: He drowned on the coast, on the Gold Coast, rather.
Phil: Did they find the body?
Phil: Or is this like a Herald Horde situation?
Tom: Yep, they found the body and attempted resuscitation, but failed.
Phil: Okay.
Tom: And he is believed to have been spearfishing alone.
Phil: Whoa, well that's karma for you, isn't it?
Tom: It is, so for all we know, an octopus may actually have drowned him.
Phil: And rightfully so.
Phil: I mean spearfishing.
Phil: I didn't even know that that was legal.
Tom: I think Steve Irwin knows a thing or two about spearfishing as well.
Phil: It was hardly fair.
Phil: It's hardly fair to go into their waters with a speargun.
Phil: Imagine if a shark turned up at your front door with a speargun.
Tom: I think that wouldn't be much of a threat.
Phil: Not on land.
Tom: Exactly.
Phil: I was thinking again last night about doing a feature on the best shark games ever.
Tom: What are the best shark games ever?
Phil: Well, fishing derby for the Atari
Phil: I mean, at first you might think that you're playing against another opponent in a fishing competition.
Phil: Who can catch the most fish?
Phil: Who can catch fish the fastest?
Phil: But in fact, you're both fighting against a large, well-animated shark that juts across the screen and robs you of your catch just as you're about to pull it up to shore.
Phil: So that one's pretty good.
Tom: I think what you're describing is akin to a human being spearfishing with a speargun underwater.
Tom: I think that's pretty unfair of the shark to be eating already partially captured fish.
Phil: Partially captured?
Phil: Well, they're not technically caught until they break through the surface.
Phil: There was another game that had a shark gun in it.
Phil: I don't know if you remember that one.
Phil: It was a very funny game, actually.
Phil: But where you actually were on land, you fire a gun and a shark, wherever the thing lands, a shark comes up and eats the person.
Tom: That was an RTS of some sort, was it?
Tom: No, no.
Phil: It was a wonderful first-person shooter for PC and the original Xbox that was made by a company.
Phil: I'll have to refer back to it later, but that's another good shark game.
Phil: Do you have any shark?
Tom: I'm sure there was also, it's Armed and Dangerous, isn't it?
Phil: Yeah, that's it.
Phil: Armed and Dangerous wasn't an RTS.
Tom: Was that a first-person shooter?
Tom: Good.
Phil: A third-person shooter.
Tom: That's what I thought, third-person.
Phil: You played that game?
Tom: No, unfortunately not.
Tom: I think I had a demo of it and couldn't get it to work.
Phil: Yeah, it was very British funny.
Phil: It was published by LucasArts and developed by Planet Moon, who was one of my favorite developers.
Phil: They didn't go on to do much better, much more than that.
Tom: Speaking of Brits, before we move on from the Olympics, I'd just like to add we were talking about the skateboarding.
Tom: One thing I found amusing about it was, the women's competition wasn't really women's competition so much as a female children competition.
Tom: Meanwhile, the men's competition featured a -year-old man.
Phil: What sport?
Tom: Skateboarding.
Phil: Skateboard, a -year-old man skateboarding?
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: I was thinking about this also last night, because I heard that there was a -year-old athlete who was competing.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: And I was just thinking about the absolute sex orgy that the Olympic Village must be.
Phil: And I was like, you know what?
Phil: This guy is a creep, you know.
Phil: I'm not knowing anything about him personally.
Phil: But like, mate, you don't belong in the Olympic Village.
Phil: Let the young people have their sport, okay?
Phil: There's not going to be anyone else there who's over the age of like on the highest level.
Phil: And it's probably, you know, one of the golfers or something like that.
Phil: Creep.
Tom: So, when are we going to the Olympics?
Phil: Yes, well, let's see, Brisbane's I believe.
Tom: You're already there.
Phil: Yeah, I mean, I'm always just down the street.
Tom: Plotting out your route to the Olympic Village.
Phil: So to speak, my route to the Olympic Village.
Phil: Exactly.
Phil: Indeed.
Phil: We have meandered long enough.
Phil: It's time for us to get into the news.
Phil: We've got three stories this week.
Phil: Story number one, from Credit to Video Games Chronicle, Braid Anniversary Edition has sold like dog-****** creator Jonathan Blow says.
Phil: Now, we're...
Phil: I don't think either one of us are fans of Joe Blow, but we have followed him over the years.
Phil: His premier first game was Braid, of course.
Tom: I thought Braid was good.
Tom: And my position on Braid, I think, is the opposite of the majority view of Braid, where I think the gameplay was excellent with some moments of genius level design and everything else about the game was horrible.
Tom: Although I think the music was actually good too.
Phil: We'll get to that.
Phil: So the actual story, Braid Anniversary Edition, it was released on May th and it was a remaster.
Phil: They redid the art of the original, had several new features, a new interactive commentary track, which I think is pretty cool, and over hours of commentary.
Phil: So someone, a YouTube channel, BlowFan, has put together, this was hilarious, it's a montage of clips from Blow's Twitch channel, in which he gets progressively more negative about the game sales.
Phil: You've got to see this.
Phil: In the first clip, recorded six days after the game sale, Blow was unsure at how well the game had performed, saying, it's a little too early to judge.
Phil: I'll put it this way, we're definitely not sure.
Phil: It's not like we sold a million copies on day one, which is what you'd expect.
Phil: It's a remaster, right?
Phil: So you don't expect it to be like a new game in terms of hype level.
Phil: But, you know, we'll see where it lands.
Phil: In the second clip, days later, he was asked if the game sold well.
Phil: No, it sold horribly, he replied.
Phil: Well, it depends what your standards are.
Phil: If you compare it to nostalgic things, like a Jeff Minter game that's on Steam or Atari it sold better than all of those.
Phil: But it still sold like dog shit compared to what we need to make for the company to survive.
Phil: The future is uncertain.
Phil: Let's put it that way, it hasn't been good.
Phil: It hasn't been good.
Phil: A third clip, recorded days after the release, showed Blow again being asked if he was happy with the sales.
Phil: No, they've been terrible, utterly terrible.
Phil: And in the final clip, days after release, Blow was asked by a viewer about a new programming language he's been working on and plans to release it at some point in the future.
Phil: When asked how many people were working full time on the compiler for Jai, Blow replied, none.
Phil: Because we can't afford to pay anyone because the sales are bad.
Phil: So it's quite a progression.
Phil: Joe Blow did go on to do Witness and that's basically it, so far as I know, from a video game perspective.
Tom: What happened to the money they would have made on Braid and the Witness?
Phil: Exactly.
Phil: Well, see, the way to do it these days is basically you've got a lot of these places, like the guy that does Stardew Valley, is a one-man shop.
Phil: He's got, I think, about seven people that help him out with music and publicity and all the rest of it.
Phil: But I think some of these creators get into this mindset of, okay, I've made it, so now I'm going to go hire all these people, programmers, writers, all the rest of it, and it's not sustainable.
Phil: It sounds like if after this remaster, which they've obviously done a lot of work for, had all new art, you know, hours of commentary.
Phil: It was received critically well.
Phil: It had Metacritic scores of and for the PlayStation and Xbox Series X versions, which you'd expect, because this was native to Xbox.
Phil: It's sort of an Xbox game when you think about it.
Phil: But yeah, I mean, it sounds like he bet, and he bet hard on this remaster, for bringing in tons of money, and it obviously didn't.
Tom: How did they spend so much money on the remaster, is my other question?
Phil: It's not so much the money that they spent on the remaster, it's just the money they've spent sustaining a studio that hasn't released a game for.
Phil: It must, Witness has to have come out more than five years ago at this point.
Phil: I think that basically he was relying on this brave re-release for a cash injection, obviously, because at this point he's saying, there's no one working full time on this stuff because we can't afford to pay anyone.
Phil: And maybe it's not like a business or something, maybe it's more of a collective of people, and these people were basically saying, oh, well, I'll do the work, and then when we have massive success, then you can pay me, and then it hasn't come through.
Phil: And so obviously taking its emotional toll as things haven't improved.
Phil: So you were a fan of Brave?
Phil: Because I'll just tell you, the consensus on the Internet, right?
Phil: This Brave originally was the first game in Xbox's Summer of Games, where Xbox was releasing independent games that were downloadable on its Xbox Arcade service, and this was new to the console world, and I think everyone bought it just because of the novelty of it, and it was the hype, and it was like, wow, this is going to bring in...
Phil: And it really did bring indie games into a new era, and I would say can be credited for at least, if not inspiring, starting the independent game development movement, because people saw, hey, I don't need a publisher, I can make a small game, and as long as it's good and creative, I can have tremendous success with it, which is what Brave had because everyone went out and bought it.
Phil: Based on the community at the VG Press, not a lot of people actually liked the game or stuck with it through to the end.
Phil: You are the exception to that, though.
Tom: I would have thought a lot of people, journalists anyway, would have finished it.
Tom: It's pretty short.
Phil: Oh, for sure, because it won Game of the Year on several different outlets.
Phil: I remember that.
Phil: It's always been a critically acclaimed game.
Phil: Maybe you can describe it for people who haven't played it.
Tom: It's basically a D platformer slash puzzle game where to be able to platform through the environment, you need to fast forward and rewind elements of the game environment and the movement of enemies.
Phil: And it has a narrative as well, which is kind of-
Tom: You could call it a narrative.
Phil: Yeah, it had a weepy narrative behind it.
Phil: Think about a guy who lost his girlfriend or something like that, right?
Tom: Or was designing the nuclear bomb.
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: Well, and basically, I think that the story was kind of like a share, if I could turn back time, because the platforming element where you could turn back time, and the guys are regretful about things he said and done, it's a bit weepy, but it's certainly not a bad game by any measure.
Phil: I just don't think it was very popular to like Braid and then it's become very popular to not like Braid.
Tom: I think I am ever the contrarian, because before I played Braid, I was very much anti-Braid, and it's pretty funny to see the shift in the winds.
Tom: But as someone who was a Braid doubter, I do have to question some of the criticism that I've seen around the Internet these days.
Tom: For instance, I saw on the VG Press, someone comment that the time puzzle mechanics were already done in Prince of Persia, Sands of Time, which is just a comically ridiculous statement.
Tom: I mean, in a literal sense, you could say they were done in Prince of Persia, Sands of Time, but there were no intricate puzzles like there were in Braid.
Phil: No, so certainly Sands of Time had a rewind function, which enabled you to, if you had made an error, rewind to the gameplay back.
Phil: Okay, that's fine.
Phil: I mean, a lot of car games have that now too, but that's not solving a puzzle, that's just rewinding the game.
Tom: Exactly.
Tom: Driver San Francisco has already done it.
Phil: Oh, yeah.
Tom: Braid's nothing.
Phil: But in Braid, it was actually required.
Phil: It wasn't just like...
Tom: And it was part of very complicated puzzles.
Tom: It wasn't just rewind, you mistimed your jump.
Phil: And I think that's where I fell off the game because I'm not a complicated puzzle kind of guy.
Phil: But I probably would have stuck with the game.
Phil: How long do you think the game is?
Tom: Only a few hours, depending on how quickly you can solve puzzles.
Phil: Yeah, yeah, which is always the case, you know.
Tom: So maybe hours for you.
Phil: Yeah, hours to years, depending on.
Phil: But you know, I don't think that the sales has been a surprise.
Phil: I certainly didn't know that the game had come out.
Tom: Nor did I.
Phil: Clearly, it should have been marketed, it could have been marketed better.
Phil: If I were doing it, and it's easy to play Armchair Developer, since it was the first game to come out on Xbox's Summer of Arcade, this is a perfect match to launch on Game Pass.
Tom: I would also add, I'm not sure who it's really for, because in my opinion anyway, the best thing about Braid is the gameplay, but the puzzles are very, very linear.
Tom: There was really only one or two puzzles that allowed for some creativity in how you could solve them.
Tom: So there's essentially absolutely no reason to replay the game from a gameplay perspective, and aesthetically, there isn't really much to remaster about.
Tom: The D weird drawing nature of the graphics mean, not much is going to be added to it, even if they have redone all the artwork.
Tom: So it seems like not a particularly good candidate to be remastered.
Phil: And then if you're not familiar, okay, so if you're familiar with the game, you've already played it, so why would you play it again?
Phil: Because it's a puzzle game, other than for nostalgia, and it's not a particularly nostalgic kind of game, right, in terms of, oh, I want to go back to that time and place.
Phil: And you're not going to go back because of the remastered artwork.
Phil: So now let's just say you don't know anything about the game.
Phil: If you don't know anything about the game, there certainly wasn't enough marketing around to support any reason why you would want to get it.
Phil: I mean, how many years?
Phil: It was the th or the th anniversary?
Tom: I hope it's not the th.
Phil: Well,
Phil:
Phil: So it was when it came out.
Phil: So I don't know what anniversary they're celebrating.
Phil: The th anniversary, right?
Tom: The Sweet re-release.
Phil: Sweet
Tom: Classic Sweet re-release.
Phil: In any case, look, I just think their best bet would have been to go on to Microsoft, have it launch on Game Pass.
Phil: It would have got a lot more marketing and buzz so that then for subsequent sales on Steam and on PlayStation people have at least heard of it and gone, oh yeah, I heard it talked about on that podcast or I saw someone else playing it, I can give it a go.
Phil: And it would have got some action with the streamers and all the rest of it with Microsoft's promotional money.
Phil: And they do get money per download on Game Pass.
Phil: It's not like they're giving the game away for free.
Phil: Microsoft has to pay for each download.
Phil: They don't obviously play for retail or probably anything close to it.
Phil: But in terms of exposure, that's what the initial braid benefited from.
Phil: So, yeah, so in any case, I don't think this is a big surprise, but I am looking forward to see what Joe Blow does next.
Phil: What did you think of Witness?
Phil: How far did you get into Witness?
Tom: Not very far.
Phil: Because Devators, it's one of his favorite games of all time.
Tom: And Gargons as well.
Phil: For me, as I've said before with this kind of game, I mean, once I got about three hours into it, I was basically on my phone the whole time, trying to find out how to get to the next level.
Phil: And at that point, you know, am I playing the game or is the game playing me?
Phil: You know, and it's just, you know, it's frustrating that I don't have that sort of mind to, or perhaps I don't have that sort of patience to sit there and contemplate how am I going to solve this puzzle?
Phil: It just, yeah, it just didn't work for me.
Phil: I respected the game.
Tom: I think the other thing is it's $
Phil: What, the bright anniversary?
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: Oh yeah, no.
Tom: It's $and at the time it had a striking visual style, which I thought was hideously ugly, but it was certainly stood out from the sorts of games that were around at the time.
Tom: If you're coming to this as someone who didn't know anything about the original braid and you see this, you're seeing $for what appears to be any sort of D indie platformer.
Tom: So I think they needed to come up with some sort of marketing angle to make this work and certainly not sell it for $
Phil: Yeah, it becomes not an impulse buy at that point because, you know, Steam's telling me, I just got this thing, like I can get the remastered Tony Hawks and for $on Steam right now.
Phil: You know, like that is a lot of value for that kind of money.
Phil: Yeah, and there's a lot of other games I'd rather buy for $rather than revisit.
Phil: And guess what?
Phil: I still have my Xbox s.
Phil: I still have braid on it.
Phil: I can go back and play it at any time.
Phil: To the art style, I think at the time, a lot of people referred to it as hand drawn, but in retrospect, it looks pretty much like any web browser flash type game with the arms on pins type thing.
Tom: I think it was definitely more detailed than a lot of D platformers at the time.
Tom: It's just since then, we've had years of this style of game being produced ad nauseam.
Tom: So it no longer stands out like it did at the time.
Phil: So the game inside made by the people that did Limbo, that is basically a puzzle platformer with a wonderful art style.
Phil: I didn't have any problems with the puzzles in that at all.
Phil: Is that because they're dumb puzzles, or is it just because the game was so enjoyable that I was engaged with it to actually bother to solve the puzzles?
Tom: I think the puzzles inside are very rudimentary.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Well, that answers that.
Phil: Onto story
Phil: Game Informer shuts down.
Phil: Thousands of articles lost.
Phil: So Game Informer was a magazine in the United States.
Phil: It has closed after years of operation.
Phil: It closed abruptly.
Phil: The owner is GameStop.
Phil: So Game Informer basically was a free magazine you'd get when you went to a video game store called Funko Land.
Phil: Funko Land was eventually bought by GameStop, which is the same people that bought out EB Games as well.
Phil: And basically, the magazine turned into what was, you know, basically a catalog of advertisements to being a good editorial, you know, product.
Phil: By the s, the magazine was recognized as the fifth largest in the United States.
Phil: That's not fifth largest video game magazine.
Phil: That's the fifth largest circulation in the United States.
Phil: So considering that it beat out magazines like Time Magazine and Sports Illustrated, you know, it's just, it was an absolute juggernaut.
Phil: So they were basically all called in on a Friday and told, you're fired.
Phil: The website has been taken down.
Phil: So all of the content on their website is gone.
Phil: Yeah, so it, and it's just been a, you know, it's not shocking because it's probably more shocking that they lasted this long.
Phil: Because, for example, Sports Illustrated is no longer a magazine.
Phil: Time Magazine is no longer a magazine.
Phil: You know, they have websites, but there's no longer a physical presence.
Tom: But I think this includes the website, doesn't it?
Tom: I think the website is no longer.
Phil: It is gone.
Phil: It is gone.
Phil: So all the content is gone.
Phil: There are fans who are trying to use the Wayback Machine and other ways to get this back.
Phil: After years of business, I know that Noclip did a documentary.
Phil: Danny Dwyer's operation did a documentary about the archive that they have.
Phil: Because they've got every press release that's been released in the last years, every promotional item, every demo, they've got prototype games.
Phil: They've got pretty much almost every game that's been released physically up until they stop producing physical games.
Phil: And you just wonder where is that all gone?
Phil: I'm sure they were fired over Zoom or over Teams.
Phil: So maybe the staff after they got laid off, made sure that all that stuff had been scrolled away or knowing that this was inevitable.
Phil: I've been working towards archiving and getting that stuff off site.
Phil: But yeah, I just hope that those materials are saved and retained.
Phil: And then for the people, you know, like, they pretty much...
Phil: I feel bad that they were fired so abruptly, but they had to have seen this coming.
Tom: Can we blame this somehow on the pyramid scheme that occurred a few years ago?
Phil: Oh, the stock rigging type stuff.
Phil: No, I...
Phil: you know, if anything, it's probably...
Phil: just taking my love of this video game...
Phil: of video game magazines out of it.
Phil: I think that it's actually been corporate negligence that they hadn't been closed down earlier.
Tom: Well, that's what I was thinking is that maybe they hold pump and dump and the large number of people who kept pumping gave not a false sense of security, but the illusion that the company was not on the verge of bankruptcy.
Tom: And thus the magazine survived for a few years longer than it should have.
Phil: Should have.
Phil: Yeah, I agree.
Phil: Yeah, because apparently the CEO is under...
Phil: he's being sued.
Phil: He was...
Phil: it is funny, actually.
Phil: The CEO was the CEO of Bed Bath and Beyond.
Phil: And Bed Bath and Beyond stock was also subject to a pump and dump scheme.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: So he's just gone from one to the other.
Phil: But yeah, it's it's it's not surprising.
Phil: I say, you know, more pump in, less dump in.
Tom: I would correct that, because the key to the pump and dump is you've got to remember to dump.
Tom: Well, that's the most important part of it.
Phil: Everybody dumps.
Phil: Yeah, like the kids book says.
Phil: So, you know, again, I'm not going to be all like, oh my god, slashing my wrists over this.
Phil: But you know, there was a time that Game Informer had a physical magazine in Australia, and there are fewer and fewer actual magazines available.
Phil: And I think magazines are really important for our culture, in our society.
Phil: Websites are kind of like newspapers, you know, they're ephemeral.
Phil: Whereas magazines can take the long look, and you can, you know, keep magazines, go back, look at them years later, and get a sense of what was going on at the time, by looking at the ads, and the words that are being used, and the images, and the technology, and all the rest of it.
Phil: So yeah, but I've belabored that point many times before.
Phil: So unless you've got something else to say, we'll go on to our third and final story.
Phil: This was an editorial piece in GameIndustry.biz, and it is GTA and the PlayStation problem.
Phil: So a phrase that is being thrown around the game industries a lot right now is survive until
Phil: And as you've seen many more layoffs this week, across gaming development and in hardware as well, I think Intel laid off people, incredibly.
Phil: And Bungie laid off like people as well.
Phil: So basically, what they're thinking is, because GTA is not going to come out on PlayStation that this might be finally what shifts people on to the current generation.
Phil: So the current generation has been going on for four years, and everyone's been referring to this in the industry as the PlayStation problem.
Phil: So in terms of overall engaged users, it looks healthy, but most of those players are still playing on the PlayStation
Phil: So Sony revealed that % of its audience is still on the older machine, even though the PlayStation has been selling well.
Phil: So any ideas as to why this may be?
Phil: Why PlayStation has been selling well, outselling Xbox, but more than half of Sony's engagement is still happening on the PlayStation when they're four years into their current console?
Tom: I just think at this stage, consoles feel increasingly pointless.
Tom: There's less motivation in terms of games to get a new console, and there's certainly an even smaller, more tangible difference between consoles as well.
Phil: And that's exactly right.
Phil: If you look at the latest playtime charts from Nuzu, it shows you the most played PlayStation games over the last two months, right?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: And those games are exactly the games that you've described.
Phil: Games where you're not going to pick up a graphical difference.
Phil: Fortnite, Call of Duty, EA Sports FC or FIFA, GTA Online, Roblox, Minecraft, Rocket League and X Defiant.
Phil: And out of all those games, only X Defiant from Ubisoft, which was released in May, isn't on PlayStation
Phil: So these live service titles, you know, if I'm playing Rocket League, I don't particularly care if I'm playing it on Switch, PC, PlayStation whatever.
Phil: The point is, it looks just as good.
Phil: And I'm not going to go out and play a PlayStation if my main game is Roblox, Minecraft, Rocket League, Fortnite or Call of Duty.
Tom: Indeed.
Phil: So, which is exactly what you've said.
Phil: And all of the biggest games on PlayStation right now run on PlayStation and they run well.
Phil: So there's no compelling reason.
Phil: Did you say that the consoles are becoming less and less relevant?
Tom: And I think there isn't any reason for the average person to get a PSover a PS
Phil: No.
Phil: Even enthusiasts like ourselves who are hardcore.
Phil: You know, we've bought every Sony platform since they've existed.
Tom: I haven't got a PS
Tom: I don't think you do either.
Phil: No.
Phil: I struggled.
Phil: I haven't found a reason to.
Phil: Because I'm still playing plenty of great games on PlayStation and on PC, and there hasn't been a breakthrough title.
Phil: Now, you know, if they have stuck with VR, that would have been a reason to be like, okay, this is the time for me to get into VR.
Phil: I can hook it up to my PlayStation have some great games, but they've dropped the baby with that as well.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: So some of the questions being raised is that with gamers taking five years or longer to transition from one generation to next, and AAA games taking four or five years to build, what does the seven-year generational cycle still work?
Phil: I mean, obviously not.
Tom: I don't think so.
Phil: Anyway, for now, everyone's pitting their hopes, and I think rightfully so.
Phil: I think the next great in Theft Auto, GTA it's not being released for PlayStation or Xbox One.
Phil: If you're going to play it, you're going to have to buy it on a PlayStation or the Xbox Series.
Phil: I don't know if it's coming out to PC.
Phil: I don't think so because traditionally, Rockstar games take a while to get on to PC.
Phil: I think that the PC audience will be just happy to keep playing GTA online until GTA online is incorporated.
Phil: However, the hell are they going to do that?
Tom: I think you're correct.
Tom: It is currently only has release dates for PSand Xbox X slash S.
Tom: Nothing has been mentioned about PC yet.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: So usually, there's a lag before they get to PC.
Phil: They typically like to sell out on the consoles as much as possible before they get to the PC.
Phil: And then their online usually lags further beyond that.
Phil: We both know that GTA online stuff is always janky for the first to months.
Phil: And then GTA has been the exception to the rule where it's finally picked up and been any good.
Phil: Yeah, this till I think is a good message because I do you think that GTA is going to push console sales for PS?
Tom: You think so?
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: But it's also, I think, the only hope.
Phil: It's the only hope.
Tom: They have.
Phil: A bit like a PlayStation is like $$Australian.
Phil: And then you go out and pay $for GTA
Phil: But that would be pretty much the only thing I'd play on it.
Phil: I'd probably go and get Astro Bot or something like that.
Phil: But it's a hard sell.
Tom: I'd get the upgrade, the Gran Turismo upgrade.
Phil: Oh, yeah.
Phil: Yeah, that too.
Phil: That too.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: I mean, like, you know, yeah, I think it'll definitely help.
Phil: It going in the other direction, Star Wars Jedi Survivor, which is the sequel to the critically and commercially well-received game.
Phil: EA announced this week that it's coming to PlayStation after having been a year on the current gen consoles, which is kind of going in the other direction and saying, we haven't sold enough of this game, not enough adoption of the new consoles.
Phil: We're releasing this of PlayStation which will be interesting given that it had a tough technical goal of it on the current gen consoles.
Phil: So yeah, it has been a weird console generation, I will say.
Phil: If Microsoft had delivered on the promise of percent compatibility for Xbox and Xbox original games, I would have bought a series on day one twice.
Phil: But they didn't.
Phil: And so there's like no reason for me to buy an Xbox at this point, especially since we can get game pass on PC.
Tom: Will you get one for Grand Theft Auto?
Phil: I'd have to seriously consider it.
Phil: The other thing that holds, well, I won't get an Xbox, I'll get a PlayStation.
Phil: Because PlayStation is fully compatible with all PlayStation games, and I have a pretty substantial PlayStation library.
Phil: Plus, it plays Blu-ray.
Phil: So if you have a bunch of Blu-rays, and if you're a parent, you've got a bunch of Blu-rays, it's another reason to have another Blu-ray player.
Phil: So all these things have to start clumping together so that it makes sense to buy one.
Phil: So am I a big enough Grand Theft Auto fan to buy one?
Phil: Yeah, I think if you add everything else together, given how much content we've created about Grand Theft Auto over the years, I'd probably dip in.
Phil: But then right now, I'm playing everything predominantly on my PC gaming.
Phil: That's where it makes sense for me to be playing games.
Phil: So I could see myself holding out and not giving in to FOMO and getting it at launch.
Phil: How about you?
Phil: Would that...
Tom: You could just wait a few years for the PC port.
Phil: That's what I'm saying.
Phil: It's not like there's a shortage of games to play in the interim.
Tom: Really, it is literally the only PSgame that I can think of that is in any way tempting.
Tom: But I don't think it's a good idea to buy a console for literally a single game.
Phil: No.
Phil: In the past, even with Switch and other things have been compelled to want to buy, I've always waited until there's at least three games.
Phil: Because then at least there's a pipeline.
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: So if they said, as much as I derided, if they said there's a new Uncharted coming out, right?
Phil: Or a new God of War.
Phil: Those things start to add up.
Phil: For you, Gran Turismo.
Phil: And then you go, okay, well, the sports offerings on Steam are fairly light.
Phil: If they can bring out a good football game, tennis game or whatever, you have all these reasons to do it.
Phil: But yeah, four years in, still not a reason to go.
Phil: Go ahead and do it.
Tom: Hoping for a good football or tennis game is an even bigger pipe dream.
Phil: It is.
Phil: I bought a tennis game the other day for my PlayStation
Phil: I've been leaning heavily into buying PlayStation games, knowing that if I get a PlayStation it's going to be able to play all of these games.
Phil: Because there's going to be a dearth of physical games in the future, I was like, well, while they're PlayStation games, I'm going to buy as many of them as I can, because at least I can play them on PlayStation
Phil: So thinking that I've never ever played a bad tennis game, even on the Super Nintendo, I saw one for the Australian Open.
Phil: It's terrible.
Phil: It is...
Tom: What's it called?
Phil: AO Tennis.
Phil: And it's from Big Ant Studios.
Phil: I think Big Ant used to do some cricket games in Australia.
Tom: So this is not only an Australian Open game, it's an Australian made game.
Phil: I believe so.
Phil: Yeah, I think Big Ant Studios is an Australian developer.
Phil: And yeah, it's got licensed players and stadia.
Phil: It's officially licensed game of the Australian Open, includes Rafael Nadal, Angelique Kerber, and real stadia such as Rod Laver Arena.
Tom: What's Margaret Court Arena called in it?
Phil: I doesn't say.
Tom: Okay.
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: First of all, it has no sound.
Phil: Like there's no, and forgive me developers if I'm wrong, but there's no commentary or music.
Phil: So it's just sort of creepy.
Phil: It's, remember in Virtua Tennis for the Dreamcast, how you sort of had those weird characters and you liked the way that they looked.
Phil: Like you were amazed at how quote realistic they were, but they still looked absolutely sort of zombie-like when they opened their mouths and their hair was never quite right.
Phil: It's still that sort of era.
Phil: But yeah, it's just a bad game and the load times are phenomenally long.
Phil: It's the first time I've ever played a tennis game and not enjoyed it.
Phil: So it's just, yeah, it's a bad game.
Phil: One of the worst, the worst tennis game I've ever played.
Phil: I might have to do a follow up review in fairness to the developers on that.
Phil: Okay, so on with the show.
Phil: Why don't we talk about what we've been playing?
Tom: What have we been playing?
Phil: Well, I've been playing a Plague Tale Innocence.
Tom: Excellent choice.
Phil: On PC.
Phil: This game was released in actually, which is a lot longer ago than I thought.
Phil: And it's done by a French developer, Asobo Studio, and published by a company you've never heard of.
Phil: And Asobo Studio is a bizarre company, because they've gone on to make Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Phil: Right?
Tom: So you can see the lineage.
Phil: Exactly.
Phil: So as we talk about this game, we will, you know, this will become even weirder.
Phil: The other game that I own from them, so they used to do like lots of licensed stuff, like Garfield, A Tale of Two Kitties, Ratatouille, Wall-E, Toy Story
Phil: You know, okay, that's fine.
Phil: That's, there's nothing wrong with doing those kinds of games.
Phil: I have Wall-E for the Wii.
Phil: And there's nothing wrong with doing that kind of work.
Phil: They did The Crew and The Crew right?
Phil: So that's Ubisoft's driving game, which is, okay, a strange twist after you've been doing all these kiddy franchise games.
Phil: Then they went on to make, after a year after they released The Crew they went on to make this game, A Plague Tale Innocence.
Phil: And then a year after, they released Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Tom: Followed by another Plague Tale and then another Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Phil: And Microsoft Flight Simulator is considered by most people to be one of the best games of all time and if not that, a technological triumph for what they were able to accomplish.
Phil: And for them to go from Disney licensed games to The Crew, which is still like The Crew had its problems, but it was still a viable driving game and technically very difficult as well, with plenty of stuff online.
Phil: They go and do a game like Plague Tale Innocence, and then Microsoft says, here you go.
Phil: You can have one of the jewels in the crown that we haven't done anything with since and see how it works out.
Phil: And it's been a phenomenal success.
Phil: And then the very next year, they come out with another Plague Tale game and then top that with another.
Phil: So these people are doing fantastic work.
Phil: You'd have to agree.
Tom: Before we move on from Flight Simulator, I was just browsing the Wikipedia pages.
Tom: You do during a podcast.
Tom: And an anecdote on there caught my attention from Jörg Neumann, who is presumably had something to do with developing the game.
Tom: And it's describing his experience of pitching it to Phil Spencer.
French Developer: He just looked at me and said, Why are you showing me a video of a plane?
French Developer: And then the plane turned and we flew over the Microsoft campus where we were.
Phil: And he is like, Is this real time?
Phil: Is this running?
French Developer: And I am like, yes, yes, it is.
French Developer: And we knew then we had something special.
Phil: My God.
Phil: Wow, I just love the fact that Phil Spencer, what he's just dropped into a room through a trap door in front of this guy.
Phil: And this Frenchman is watching a video on TV.
Phil: And he's like, why are you showing me a video of a plane?
Phil: Did you not know that why we were meeting, who I am, how I got into this room, how you got into this room, what we'd be talking about?
Phil: You're like one of the most powerful people at Microsoft and I'm just, why are you showing me a video of a plane?
Phil: Are you Chinese or Japanese?
Tom: What does this got to do with propane?
Phil: Propane?
Phil: Oh, God, boy.
Phil: Anyway, plague, so this, these people, Asobo, they're now my favorite studio.
Phil: They're, because they've, first of all, why?
Phil: Right?
Phil: They've done the miles.
Phil: They've been developing since
Phil: With their first game, Super Farm.
Phil: And they've done all sorts of various things.
Phil: And with A Plague Tale, it's a third-person action adventure with some stealth elements.
Phil: Set during, what do you say, the th century, I'd say France.
Tom: Something like that.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: During the Hundred Years War apparently.
Phil: And it uses Speed Tree.
Phil: And I've got to say, God, you know, Speed Tree is probably like percent of this game.
Phil: So whatever they're doing over there at Speed Tree, they're doing a fantastic job.
Phil: I can't imagine how much work they save developers, but with the generative fauna or foliage rather.
Phil: So, and so in this game, you play as a princess or just the daughter of a lord.
Phil: I don't know.
Phil: She's of the gentry class.
Tom: Some sort of noble woman.
Tom: I don't think a princess though.
Tom: An aristocrat.
Phil: I won't do this in a spoiler type way, but in some way, everything goes to hell and she's now charged with escorting her sickly brother, who has been kept in isolation away from everyone.
Phil: So she doesn't really have a relationship with him.
Phil: Let's just say that she's to and let's just say that the boy is somewhere between the age of four and six or seven.
Phil: And now you're leading him through the environment to try and get him ostensibly at first to a doctor or to a church or this, that or the other.
Phil: So if you can think of...
Phil: So what is this game about?
Phil: Well, first of all, what stands out about it?
Phil: Okay, obviously it's got a female protagonist from the mid th century.
Phil: This is not normal in a video game.
Phil: And I think it's done quite well.
Phil: The second thing is, she obviously doesn't have a gun or a shotgun or a handgun of any kind.
Phil: She has basically...
Tom: She does however have a slingshot.
Phil: She does have a slingshot, but and she also has the ability to throw stones, to distract people or throw pots to distract people.
Phil: So you can...
Phil: They give you the opportunity to throw stones at metallic objects to distract people you need to get past.
Phil: They give you tall linseed or grassy areas where you can walk through and not be detected if you crouch down.
Phil: The little boy can be used to get into areas which you cannot fit so that he can open doors for you and that sort of thing.
Phil: And so, yeah, it's not a conventional game at all in terms of its content.
Phil: Its gameplay, I would probably say, at this point, it's more of a stealth action game with very little emphasis on action.
Phil: It reminded me most of Splinter Cell than anything else.
Phil: And I used to love the original Splinter Cell games, the first three at least, but I haven't really gotten back into stealth since.
Phil: The Saboteur had some self-elements.
Phil: But since then, it hasn't really been a part of video gaming much.
Phil: Sneak King from Burger King had some stealth elements as well.
Phil: And I'm quite enjoying it.
Phil: The motion cones, or the detection cones, rather, of, we'll call them the guards, or basically any enemy you interact, are about as narrow as their eyeballs, so it's fairly easy from a stealth perspective to creep around because their zone of perception is quite narrow.
Phil: I've had a boss battle or two, which were basically ripped straight out of any sort of video game.
Phil: Like there's one, one of the first boss battles is very much like a Mario type battle where you have to hit the armor off them and then they're vulnerable and then you can strike them.
Phil: It's also brings in memories of Tomb Raider
Phil: You know, there's a crafting element.
Phil: You know, you've got the, they also have the grief of her first kill, which they overplay just as they did.
Phil: And I thought thoughtfully in Tomb Raider because it was an origin story.
Phil: But seeing it again being copied so closely, I thought was a bit on the nose.
Phil: I think if you remember in Tomb Raider it starts with Lara Croft killing a deer or some other animal, and then feeling really bad about killing an animal.
Phil: And then it just elevates up to her, you know, doing harm and then killing a human.
Phil: So they kind of skip those steps in this one to her killing the first person.
Tom: Could that be some of the historical setting?
Tom: Who's going to feel bad about killing an animal in the s?
Phil: Well, I think if you were to take any normal urban American or Australian, they would feel bad about killing an animal, even though they eat, you know, even though they might have ambivalence towards having a hamburger or a steak, they'd still feel squeezy about actually going through the act of killing an animal.
Tom: Were there many urbanites in the s?
Phil: Well, I believe so.
Phil: I mean, not particularly urbanites, but, you know, I mean, the people did live in cities.
Tom: I think animal cruelty was perhaps a little bit more widespread in that historical setting.
Phil: Maybe life was, yeah, I hear what you're saying.
Phil: You know, death and stuff was more apparent, obviously too because the name of this game is A Plague Tale.
Phil: They're obviously going through the Black Plague, which was spread through rats.
Phil: Now, the enemies in this game are the French Inquisition, which are wonderful enemies to be defeating and playing against in this game.
Phil: But there's also scared villages.
Phil: So I'd say in terms of atmosphere, the game has done well to create a realistic setting, or a setting that is credible.
Phil: I think that the main female character is quite good in terms of how realistic she is.
Phil: Like, you know, you could go, yeah, like, I can see how this is an actual person.
Phil: The game mechanics of the stealth and the combat when they're overlaid with all of that, doesn't seem like a good fit.
Phil: It seems contrived, but then this is a video game.
Phil: You know, it's just part of the deal.
Phil: So, if you look at something like God of War, you know, they are able to put someone in a pseudo-historical context with historical weapons and it all feels right.
Phil: None of this feels right.
Phil: Like, I don't think that a slingshot, you know, and being able to pull off headshots with a slingshot when you're a to -year-old woman of the gentry doesn't seem credible, but in the very opening scenes, they do show her hunting.
Phil: And so perhaps in that case, you know, that sort of explains the justification as to why she's such a good shot and all the rest of it.
Phil: You know, overall, I've got a very positive feeling about the game so far, and I'm aim compelled to play it.
Phil: I'm about three to four hours into it.
Phil: I think it's about a hour game.
Phil: But yeah, do you have any questions about it?
Tom: I think on the weapons, potentially not being as convincing as God of War, perhaps not that I played God of War, but from the outside looking in, I think the mechanics in God of War are a lot more complicated and rich in terms of gameplay, whereas they're pretty simple and a little bit janky in a plague tale.
Tom: So maybe that's why it doesn't feel convincing rather than an issue with the setting per se.
Phil: Yeah, okay.
Phil: I mean, I'm just shocked that you haven't played God of War.
Phil: I mean, it's a pretty important and good series.
Tom: So I've heard.
Phil: I've got to say, one thing about Hugo, the little character that you're helping out, he doesn't get in the way.
Phil: Like, he is not detrimental, which is outstanding because usually, you know, you'd expect a character like that to get in the way, but you can tell him to stay somewhere or to go ahead or to follow and all the rest of it.
Phil: Yeah, so I'm thoroughly impressed with it, which is no surprise to me at all because everyone that I like and respect has enjoyed the game.
Phil: You completed it, right?
Tom: Yep, I did, and if you're enjoying the Catholic adversaries, make sure you play until the end.
Phil: Oh, I will definitely be completing this game.
Phil: So what I would say is that, and I'll give final impressions once I do get through it, what I would say is that if you enjoy the kind of play like Uncharted, if you like something that's a little bit different than what you're used to, if you like a little bit of stealth action, this game is right up your alley.
Phil: And it also has that B-game vibe as well.
Phil: Like it's got a spirit to it where its success isn't assured, and you can kind of feel that.
Phil: You can somehow feel that the developers were doing this as a passion project, which is why their success with Microsoft Flight Simulator is so much.
Phil: It's such a delicious thing that they can have that success as well as have this creative thing that they're doing as well that's also having good success.
Phil: So in terms of reception, most outlets have given it an out of across all platforms.
Phil: The French gave it a out of because that's the French.
Phil: Of course, they're going to have a -point scale.
Tom: I think you're probably not ready to rate it yet, are you?
Phil: Oh, no.
Phil: Heck no.
Phil: You should take this as the highest praise.
Phil: I mean, the game that it most reminds me of is another buddy action game along this vein and that was Enslaved.
Phil: So, yeah, I'm really positive, really happy about it and playing it every day.
Phil: Excellent.
Phil: What have you been playing every day?
Tom: I've been playing Baldur's Gate and I am up to, I believe, the final fight in the game.
Tom: So, we may finally be free of Baldur's Gate impressions very soon.
Phil: Excellent.
Phil: I've got a question before you get into your update.
Tom: Go ahead.
Phil: Boss battles, end boss battles.
Phil: Do you prefer the penultimate boss to be the most difficult or the last boss?
Phil: So, usually, you basically have the option of, you have the penultimate boss and that's the real boss battle, and then a little bit of story and then you're fighting against the final boss, which is the antagonist of the game.
Phil: And it's typically not a very difficult challenge, but it's more there for story purposes.
Phil: Or do you prefer getting to the final boss and that one being the hardest battle of the entire game?
Tom: I prefer the final boss to be the most difficult, definitely.
Phil: Okay, I disagree, but tell me why you feel that way.
Tom: Because they're the one that is generally hyped up as the thing that is meant to pose the greatest challenge, so therefore, it should.
Phil: But if you can't beat it, you never get to finish the game.
Phil: See, I like it if the second last boss is the hardest one in the game.
Phil: Then somehow by beating that second hardest boss, that weakens the antagonist, and that's why you're able to easily knock him off, and you have more of that story element, and you have less stress on you, because I like the surprise second last boss to be the most difficult, because you basically go, oh, this isn't the last boss, so I can beat this guy, and you're like, oh, actually, this is kind of difficult.
Phil: Maybe it's a pressure thing with me where it's like, well, the pressure is off because this isn't the final battle.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Just interested in that.
Phil: So Bald Gate so what do you think?
Phil: Is this last boss the most difficult or is it the sort of setup that I just described?
Tom: The fight has just begun, so I can't comment on it yet.
Tom: And I think the final boss fight is preceded by an antagonist that appears between you and the final boss, who may not appear depending on what you've done in the story, but I presume would have some other antagonist would have taken their place.
Tom: If you didn't make the decisions that I made.
Tom: The lead up to it was just classic, here's a thousand enemies to give you a challenge design, which was a little disappointing.
Tom: So we might be in for disappointing finale in terms of gameplay.
Tom: That's what I'm thinking is going to happen.
Phil: So assuming that your character has a certain quote level at this point?
Tom: Everyone is the maximum level in your party.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: So this should be a cake walk.
Phil: This should be a walk in a cake for you.
Tom: It depends.
Tom: Some of the last battles have been a cake walk with the fully level characters, some have not.
Tom: So they have found ways to keep a challenge going, as long as you're not just cheating with speed potions and things like that.
Tom: So it could go either way.
Phil: Well, I look forward to hearing final impressions on episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: We're going to go into our How It Started segment.
Phil: So this is a new segment for us.
Phil: Just to describe it, basically, there's some merit in that some game series garner more cultural relevance and improve its games the longer they run, and some games don't really start at their first release.
Phil: So I'm going to give you some popular franchises.
Phil: I want you to tell me which is the first relevant entry in a series for you personally, and for the greater gaming community.
Phil: So for example, an easy one, we'll throw out their Halo, right?
Phil: So Halo is of course the first game in the franchise.
Phil: But is that where it hit its peak?
Phil: Is that where it was most relevant for you?
Phil: And then when do you think Halo started for the greater gaming community?
Tom: I would presume everyone would say the original Halo was the important one for the gaming community.
Tom: But I think Halo is actually more important because Halo I don't believe the hype that it was this revolutionary console first-person shooter.
Tom: No, there were console first-person shooters that had dual stick controls and were just as complicated before Halo.
Phil: Were they?
Tom: Yep.
Tom: But there was no, there was no online multiplayer first-person shooter like Halo before Halo
Phil: So Halo dual stick control first-person shooter.
Phil: So obviously first-person shooters on consoles, you've got GoldenEye Nsingle analog.
Phil: So it would have had to have been a PlayStation game that had dual stick.
Phil: So did something like TimeSplitters come out before Halo?
Tom: I'm going to look up.
Tom: What year did Halo come out in?
Tom:
Tom: Alien Resurrection.
Phil: Alien Resurrection?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: What did that come out for?
Tom: I think PlayStation
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: PlayStation had dual analog.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: TimeSplitters also came out in
Phil: That for sure was a dual stick.
Tom: So that predates Halo?
Phil: Yeah, definitely.
Tom: So I mean, there's no comparison.
Tom: Mechanically TimeSplitters is significantly better than Halo in my book.
Phil: I think they're both good for different reasons.
Phil: I'm not going to poo poo Halo.
Tom: I love Halo.
Tom: Don't get me wrong.
Phil: If I had to pick between the two, I'd probably still go with Halo, but that's probably cultural nostalgia more than anything else.
Phil: So you think for most people, Halo started with Halo
Tom: I'm saying people will say that Halo was the important Halo, but I'm saying in reality, Halo for everyone, not just for me personally, was the important Halo.
Phil: Because of it's on-line.
Tom: Yeah, because all the stuff that the original Halo was praised for actually existed.
Tom: The only potential argument you can make is that it tied together different things that other games did and they didn't do all of them at once.
Tom: Maybe you can make an argument from that angle.
Tom: But I think Halo is one of the most important games without any comparison ever.
Tom: I mean, what that did, if Halo was not there for Xbox Live, I think there would have been a totally different uptake of online gaming on consoles.
Phil: Absolutely.
Phil: Yeah, I agree with you.
Phil: I think most people would go with Halo, and I would certainly agree with you that Halo was the most significant because of its online.
Phil: I can't believe how many hours I would have sunk into playing Halo online and it changed everything.
Phil: I don't think there's a Fortnite without Halo
Phil: Now, obviously, some other game would have come along and done all of that, but the point is some other game didn't, and it was the one that did.
Phil: Exactly right.
Phil: Okay, so now you know how to play the game.
Phil: So we'll play Grand Theft Auto, another big one.
Tom: I think for people in general, Grand Theft Auto
French Developer: Wow.
Tom: I think that all Grand Theft Autos have been massive, but Grand Theft Auto wasn't the all overwhelming cultural phenomenon that it has become until Grand Theft Auto
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: I mean, if you look at Grand Theft Auto obviously before Grand Theft Auto there was Grand Theft Auto and which were top-down shooters like Robotron.
Phil: For the PlayStation and then Grand Theft Auto brought it to D, and was amazing for its time and ambitious.
Phil: Probably more ambitious than it was amazing, but it was certainly captivating and addictive, or addicting.
Phil: Then Grand Theft Auto was a relative dud, but also still incredible in its immersiveness.
Phil: And I've probably played over hours of that.
Phil: That's the one set in New York with Nico.
Phil: And of course, in between, you had San Andreas and Vice City.
Phil: And on top of Grand Theft Auto you had Gay Tony and Lost in the Damned.
Phil: And then obviously on to Grand Theft Auto
Phil: So I'd agree that by population alone, Grand Theft Auto with the online element is the game that's...
Phil: I wouldn't say it's the first relevant entry in the series, though.
Phil: I'd say, I'd probably say for most people, it would be Grand Theft Auto
Tom: Well, this is how you define relevant, though, because I think not just Grand Theft Auto the original Grand Theft Auto was hugely controversial.
Tom: I think until Grand Theft Auto each Grand Theft Auto's broader cultural relevance was purely based on the controversy surrounding them.
Tom: Whereas when we get to Grand Theft Auto ..
Phil: No controversy anymore?
Tom: No.
Tom: It becomes this entity that breaks free of controversy and people know about because it's meant to be a great game.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: As opposed to, it's controversial.
Phil: It's been a long time since I played the single player.
Phil: I think it was on Grand Theft...
Phil: PlayStation was the last time I played Grand Theft Auto
Phil: So...
Tom: And I'll give you an example of this.
Phil: Oh, you're right.
Phil: I completely agree.
Phil: But yeah, I'd like to hear your example.
Tom: When I was playing Vice City, it was during the brief period I was at high school.
Tom: And I was talking to my best friend there about visiting the strip club in the game.
Tom: Rodney.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: Yep.
Tom: And the cool dude in the class came along hearing strip clubs being mentioned.
Phil: Stan.
Tom: Yep.
Tom: So Stan came over and he said, what are you talking about a strip club?
Tom: And so we explained, we're talking about the strip club in Vice City.
Tom: And he was so disgusted that a bunch of nerds were talking about some fucking video game.
Tom: I think if this plays out today, this scenario would not occur.
Phil: Of course not.
Phil: It's unimaginable.
Tom: Someone would have heard someone talking about Grand Theft Auto, and that's what would have tickled their something.
Phil: Yeah, a cockatoo.
Tom: Peaked their interest.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: That's when they would have come over.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Yeah, for sure.
Phil: Now, okay, for you, though, that's for the world.
Phil: For you, what was the first relevant entry in the series?
Tom: I think I'm going to have to go with not my favorite Grand Theft Auto, but the...
Phil: Your favorite is San Andreas, right?
Tom: Correct.
Tom: Yep.
Tom: I'm going to have to go with the one that first caught my attention and made, gave me a thus far lifelong interest in the series, which is the original Grand Theft Auto.
Tom: I think it stands out the most in terms of the gaming landscape other than Grand Theft Auto as well.
Tom: Just the atmosphere that game created when you were playing it was so overwhelming and so much sensory overload compared to most games at the time.
Phil: I do remember someone talking to me about that game at work going, you got to play this game.
Phil: I cannot believe it.
Phil: For me, the answer, do you want to predict?
Phil: First of all, do you want to predict which is my favorite and which answer I'm going to give?
Tom: I think judging by the outfit you're wearing, which the audience can't see, I'm going to go with your favorite being Grand Theft Auto
French Developer: No.
Tom: Thank God for that.
Phil: I'm wearing a Detroit Tigers cap, so that is not in anything to do with it.
Tom: It's not the city.
Tom: It's not the city.
Tom: It's the overall look.
Phil: Oh, the pastiche, the ouvert, ouvert.
Phil: For me, what is my favorite Grand Theft Auto, though, do you think?
Tom: I'm going to guess Vice City.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Because I'm a boomer.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: It's about your childhood.
Phil: Yeah.
French Developer: Yeah.
Phil: Right.
Phil: So no, my favorite is San Andreas.
Tom: That makes even more sense.
Tom: How did I not answer that?
French Developer: Yeah.
Phil: But I'm going to say that the first relevant entry in the series is Grand Theft Auto because that's what broke open not only Grand Theft Auto, but it broke open a whole genre, a whole world, a whole attitude towards video games.
Phil: I think it's one of the most consequential video games the last years, and there's plenty of reasons for that.
Phil: Okay, so we're going to go with one more.
Phil: How did it all start or how it started?
Phil: And then we'll save some.
Phil: Let's go with, roll the dice here.
Phil: Let's go with Tekken.
Tom: Tekken, I think for relevance to the world, probably the original Tekken.
Phil: In the arcade or, or PlayStation?
Tom: No, the console version.
Phil: Yep.
Tom: And specifically the console version, because if I remember correctly, how accurate it was to the arcade version.
Phil: Yep.
Phil: I don't have a dog in the hunt with Tekken.
Phil: I enjoy Tekken, but it's not like a Soul Calibur type level of game for me.
Phil: So, I would, I'm going to have to agree with you that the original Tekken is probably the one that is the most important.
Phil: They're up to Tekken by the way.
Phil: Tekken has been released for PlayStation and Xbox Series and Windows in this year.
Phil: In the year of Our Lord
Phil: For me, it is Tekken
Phil: I remember playing Tekken on a PlayStation and I couldn't get enough of that game.
Phil: It was fantastic.
Phil: And it was the first time that I fully enjoyed Tekken completely and entirely.
Phil: And I didn't have much of an interest in it before then.
Phil: I know I've got a few of the Tekken games for PlayStation, but Tekken to me was a groundbreaking game from Namco.
Tom: My personal choice would be Tekken
Tom: That's the one I started playing, and I've stuck with Tekken since that.
Phil: And that was for PlayStation, right?
Tom: PlayStation, that's right.
Phil: I think it came out for both PlayStation and PlayStation
Tom: Don't think so.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Tekken you're talking about?
Tom: Yeah, Tekken
Phil: Tekken was a very good game.
Phil: I have played that as well.
Phil: Now that I look at the cover art, I do have that one as well.
Phil: Yeah, fantastic fighting game.
Tom: And Tag Tournament is a close second.
Phil: Tag Tournament, another fantastic game.
Phil: Yeah, Tekken is underrated?
Phil: I don't think so.
Phil: I think it's appropriately rated.
Tom: I think it's appropriately rated.
Tom: Some people think it's the best fighting game ever.
Tom: So I think it's appropriate.
Phil: So before we close this out, I'm going to go to my questions for Tom from other people's podcast.
Tom: Before we do that, I'm just going to briefly go back to the Olympics because Sky currently has their version of the Olympics on.
Tom: Which is a tournament, all the people playing get assigned a team, which is based on the four main realms in the game.
Phil: Wait, wait, what do you mean?
Phil: Well, we'll stop.
Phil: What is Sky?
Tom: So Sky is the endless money-making invention by that game company to follow up.
Phil: I thought you were talking about the Murdoch-owned news network.
Tom: No.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: So Sky Children of Light, the free-to-play online game available on all consoles, it's got their own version of the Olympics going on?
Tom: Yeah, correct.
Phil: And does it involve a lot of snowboarding or sandboarding?
Tom: A little bit of snowboarding, sort of.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: So start again, now that we know what you're talking about.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: So basically, all the players who go to the area where the tournament takes place, are assigned a team for the duration of the event that they represent.
Tom: And that's based on the four main realms slash levels in the game.
Tom: And you can't pick the team, you just automatically signed it at the beginning of the tournament or whenever you go there.
Tom: And each day, there are two different types of competitions that you can play repeatedly and earn up to, I think, three medals slash points for your team.
Tom: And whichever team wins the most points is the team that is in front.
Tom: And there's a leaderboard within the area that you can look at too.
Tom: And the team I was assigned is currently losing by a significant margin, which I'm not to blame for because I generally finish within the top three at least.
Tom: But apparently everyone else in the team, on average, comes last.
Tom: But it's so far been, I think, one of the more enjoyable sky events of late.
Tom: The races, it's fun to have a competitive interaction as opposed to the cooperative interaction that the majority of sky is.
Tom: And most of the races are interesting little takes on the standard gameplay.
Phil: Oh, it's fun.
Phil: I think that's great.
Phil: Jenova Chen never has to work another day in his life, does he?
Tom: He's probably not.
Phil: No, he's probably already not.
Phil: He's already checked out.
Phil: Well, thank you for that.
Tom: I'm just going to...
Tom: We have the Dive Destiny recovered.
Phil: What do you need the Dive Destiny for?
Tom: I'm going to rate Sky's Olympic event.
Tom: I missed the Dive Destiny last week.
Phil: Did you know that...
Phil: Yeah, you sure did.
Phil: Did you know that Sonic and Mario go to the Olympics?
Phil: There's no Sonic and Mario go to the Olympics this year?
Tom: Wasn't there only ever one?
Tom: Or did they make more than one?
Phil: No, no, no, they've been doing this.
Phil: In fact, the Japanese one was a Collector's Edition because obviously the Japanese Olympics never went ahead, or were delayed or whatever.
Phil: But this year, there's not a Mario and Sonic go to the Olympics.
Phil: Do you know why?
Tom: Video game COVID?
Phil: The incredibly ethical IOC, International Olympic Committee, had instead awarded the exclusive rights to all video game-related ephemera for this current Olympics to some NFT company.
Phil: I didn't even know they were still making NFTs.
Phil: I thought that scam had moved on.
Phil: The current scam is AI, NFTs.
Phil: That's the scam before the last scam.
Tom: Are there AI NFTs?
Phil: There would have to be.
Phil: Some idiot's still doing NFTs.
Phil: I'm sure.
Phil: Anyway.
Tom: That sounds like a good idea.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: What is not a good idea is depriving the world of a Sonic and Mario Olympics game.
Phil: Because that's what's been keeping Sony and Nintendo alive because these games completely destroy whatever control you have because of the required button pressing.
Phil: OK, let's roll out the die of destiny for Sky Children of Light Olympic edition.
Tom: It's a out of
Phil: out of sounds about right.
Phil: A die.
Tom: One for each rage.
Phil: That's terrible.
Phil: You know, when I roll die, I typically roll
Phil: And I just don't know why your die rolls so low.
Tom: Like me, it has high standards when it comes to video games.
Phil: I guess so.
Phil: So now it's time for Phil's Questions for Tom from other People's Podcasts.
Phil: Alan writes from Destination Unknown, Imagine a scenario where a video game character, imagine a scenario where video game characters suddenly gain self-awareness.
Phil: Okay, you're following along.
Phil: So we're a video game character, we're in a game, but all of a sudden we realize that we're real people and we start questioning our existence.
Phil: They form a council to discuss their predicament.
Phil: Which video game character would you choose to lead this council and why?
Tom: It's an interesting question.
Tom: What would be the goal of the committee or would that depend on the character who was chosen?
Phil: Basically, all video game characters have now understood that they have been created in a, they thought they were all living their real life.
Phil: So Dom in Gears of War has been living plus years fighting, whatever he's fighting in Gears of War.
Phil: God of War has been doing whatever he's been doing, Mario has been doing whatever he's been doing.
Phil: Now they finally realize that actually this is just a constructed world.
Phil: And everything that they believe in has actually just been for someone else's entertainment.
Phil: And that % of people don't even finish their game.
Phil: So based on the achievement records.
Phil: So they have to elect someone to go, okay, well, what do we, we need to discuss this predicament.
Phil: What are we gonna do?
Phil: What is going on here?
Phil: Should we continue to participate in this world?
Phil: Should we break off from it?
Phil: Who should be leading the council of self-aware video game characters?
Tom: I think Raiden from Metal Gear Solid.
French Developer: Why?
Tom: He's essentially experienced the same thing in his game.
Phil: Oh yeah, fair enough.
Phil: So he's got experience.
Tom: Exactly, he's the most qualified for this situation.
Phil: What other game, what other game characters have realized that they're part of a simulation?
Tom: I think adventure games have a lot of fourth-wall breaking jokes along those lines.
Phil: Adventure games?
Tom: Yep.
Phil: Like Day of the Tentacle type stuff?
Tom: Exactly.
Phil: Yeah, okay, so Tim Schafer character.
Phil: Oh, what about the Jack Black character from the Double Fine RTS Heavy Metal game?
Phil: He'd be rousing.
Tom: There's one I haven't played, but that could work.
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Tom: As long as there are no presidential assassinations.
Phil: He'd be rousing because he'd be able to say, hey, I've also played Bowser in this other game.
Phil: Guess what?
Phil: We're all just characters.
Phil: We're all just actors on another field.
Phil: Jennifer Hale, Princess Peach and Cortana are the same actress.
Phil: So I think that would be a good leveling field because she'd be able to say, hey, it's quite all right.
Phil: We all play different roles.
Tom: Cortana should also have a lot of data gathered on the real world as well.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: So I go with Jack Black.
Phil: You go with Raiden.
Tom: Raiden.
Phil: What about Gordon Freeman or another silent protagonist?
Tom: Can a silent protagonist lead?
French Developer: No, no, no.
Phil: So who's the most verbose video game character?
Tom: That's a good question.
Phil: Probably someone from The Stanley Parable.
Phil: What about that girl Jade?
Phil: What about Jade from The Pig Game?
Phil: You know, The Pig Game?
Phil: The French Pig Game from Ubisoft?
Phil: What?
Tom: Beyond Good and Evil.
Phil: Yeah, that one.
Phil: What about her?
Phil: She's a journalist, a photo journalist, but you know.
Tom: That could work, yeah.
Phil: Yeah, this is a really good question.
Phil: I think I'm somewhat flummoxed.
Tom: I'm gonna go stick with my choice.
Tom: I think it's a good choice.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Master Chief would be no good.
Tom: The only issue is he would probably just leave the group behind based on his course of action following the events in Metal Gear Solid
Phil: Okay, you know what?
Phil: The best answer for this one for me would be any character from a David Cage game.
Phil: Because they would be verbose, sensitive.
Phil: I think, you know, I think if you were to take the Ellen Page character from that David Cage game, that would be the one.
Tom: What about the serial killer?
Phil: No, no, no good.
Tom: Not him?
Phil: And what about someone like Qubit or Frogger?
Tom: Do these characters become a part of reality?
Tom: Or are they still trapped within the virtual world?
Phil: They're trapped within the virtual world.
Phil: So I think we're talking about a game like Pixels or Wreck-It Ralph at this point.
Phil: So maybe that's a real answer.
Tom: What about Mario?
Phil: No, he doesn't speak.
Phil: Sonic, Sonic would be good, because Sonic has experienced life.
Phil: Sonic, no, but Sonic has been in the real world through his movies and he's kissed a real human.
Phil: So I, you know, maybe Sonic would be the best.
Phil: I think Sonic would be.
Tom: Mario has been a real human.
Phil: Yeah, but he can't talk.
Phil: He can't talk.
Tom: Are you speaking that film?
Phil: He's a, I guess.
Phil: I still go with Sonic, because I think Sonic is a good leader.
Phil: He would, he would, he would, he would rally the troops.
Phil: He would reassure the weak.
Phil: I think it's definitely, my answer is Sonic the Hedgehog.
Phil: Your answer is Paige from The Pig.
Tom: I'm going to change it to David Bowie.
Phil: Oh, from?
Tom: Another David Cage game.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: What was that game called, man?
Tom: Omicron the Nomad Soul.
Phil: Omni-cron.
Tom: Omicron.
Phil: Omicron the Nomad Soul.
Phil: I guess so.
Phil: Thanks for listening to Game Under Podcast.
Phil: We've been doing this since so there's a lot of resources covering games from that time to now at our website at gameunder.net.
Phil: If you'd like to submit a question, here's a comment section from our homepage.
Phil: I am working on a review of the Ranger.
Phil: Do you know what the Ranger is?
Tom: The Ford Ranger?
Phil: Well, I could do that if they sent me one for free.
Phil: But this is actually a game pad for the Atari and Retron
Phil: So yeah, I'll be posting that sometime in the next couple of days.
Phil: I know that there will be one person who reads that review, which will be Raven Pros from the VG Press.
Phil: Thanks for listening to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: I'm Phil Fogg.
Tom: I'm Tom Towers.
Tom: And if you want more Game Under Olympic content read, the review of The Ramp by Tom Towers at gameunder.net.