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0:00:10 Intro
0:01:15 Phil's new PC's
0:05:00 Escape from Tarkov
0:06:15 News: Not-E3 Wrap Up
0:49:24 News: Vale Cameron "Gazunta" Davis
0:51:35 News: Star Citizen Raises Over $700 Million
0:54:26 What We've Been Playing - Baldur's Gate 3
0:59:24 Retro Gamer's Top 100 Retro Games of All Time
1:16:56 Our #1 Retro Game of All Time
1:26:15 E-mails: Phil asks Tom Questions From Other People's Podcasts
Transcripts
Phil: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: I'm your host, Tom Towers, and I'm joined by my co-host, Phil Fogg.
Tom: Hello, Philius P.
Tom: Fogg here.
Tom: Did you see that email I sent you today?
Phil: I did indeed.
Tom: Yeah, it's intriguing.
Tom: We should probably talk about that off the show, but I think you should be the business manager on this one and suss it out, see what their business model is.
Tom: This is for someone who wants to turn us into TikTok superstars based on our show.
Tom: Now, we get a lot of these emails from people being solicitous, wanting to do stuff for us, but this particular one actually said, I've actually made some stuff based on your last show.
Tom: Let me know if you want me to send them over.
Tom: So I think from a entertaining, it would be entertaining on the show if you were to at least record those, or we can put them on a website and make fun of them or whatever.
Tom: And hey, if they're good, why not?
Phil: Well, I receive a lot of solicitations, but they're usually not something I can put on air.
Tom: So this is the first recording we're doing with my new mini PC.
Tom: Now, I just want to go through the specs because a lot of our listeners, they're into computers, obviously, some of them aren't, some of them aren't.
Tom: But I just thought it'd be interesting.
Tom: I am really impressed with this thing.
Tom: It only costs $and it's one of these micro PCs you basically strap to the back of a monitor.
Tom: In terms of its specs, it's got, let's see here, it's a th generation Alder Lake NCPU.
Tom: Now, do you know what that means?
Phil: Not really.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: It's a lot snappier.
Phil: I know it means it's Intel, I think.
Tom: Yeah, it is Intel, definitely.
Tom: It's got gigabyte hard drive, gigabyte of DDR, which is kind of low.
Tom: It's an Intel processor, gigahertz, comes with Windows as a part of that $
Tom: And I've been very impressed with it out of the box.
Phil: Now, you said it had a gigabyte hard drive and gigabytes of RAM.
Phil: I assume that was the RAM the other way.
Tom: Yeah, gigabyte.
Tom: Well, it says gigabyte DDR under RAM.
Tom: Okay, gigabyte of RAM.
Tom: Just imagine the AI I could generate with that.
Tom: No, that has to...
Tom: Well, I'm reading from the website.
Tom: That has got to be wrong because, yeah, so the hard drive has to be gigabyte.
Phil: Yeah, I think they've got that backwards.
Tom: gigabytes of RAM.
Tom: That's kind of excessive.
Tom: You can just get by an can't you?
Phil: I think you'd probably want
Phil: I would say these days.
Tom: Yeah, but for bucks Australian, this thing like completely outperforms my last computer.
Tom: Now, of course, obviously you can't game on it.
Tom: There's no video card on it other than just to display stuff.
Tom: But yeah, tremendous value.
Tom: It's I'll give them a plug.
Tom: It's CamRu, K-A-M-R-U-I, AKPlus, mini PC.
Tom: Yeah, just for basically recording the podcast, it's a great little thing.
Tom: The other computer that I bought yesterday is probably, I'm going to say, underpowered for a gaming PC, but probably suitable for what I need.
Tom: It's got a AMD Ryzen which is the most important thing, I guess, about it.
Tom: When you look at a computer, what's the most important thing is the processor and the video card, right?
Tom: Of course.
Tom: Yeah, yeah.
Tom: And the processor on it I can't see right here.
Tom: But I ran it by you.
Tom: It's got gigabytes of RAM also.
Tom: But yeah, I'm excited to receive that.
Phil: They said it's going to be a card is an RTX
Tom: Sorry, yes.
Tom: So the processor is AMD Ryzen F and the video card is an RTX
Phil: I don't think that's underpowered at all.
Phil: If you were trying to play games at K on it, it would be.
Phil: But I think you'd be able to run most games on highest or close to highest settings at p and probably medium p.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: And again, this is going to be hooked up to a TV.
Tom: I should probably state.
Tom: So, you know, it's that kind of a game, gaming PC.
Tom: It's not intended to be something where I'm, you know, playing these first person shooters like Rust and what's that really high level FPS sim that starts with a K?
Tom: It's not Karnov.
Phil: Counter Strike?
Tom: No, it starts with a K, not a C.
Phil: Killzone?
Tom: No, don't, don't.
Tom: I'm going to put in Karnov.
Tom: First person shooter sim Karnov.
Tom: No, that's not it.
Tom: Anyway.
Phil: Kharkov?
Phil: Kharkov, Kharkov or something.
Tom: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom: What is it?
Phil: Is it Sins of Kharkov?
Tom: Kharkov.
Tom: We're both dueling, dueling, dueling keyboards here.
Tom: If you find it...
Phil: Kharkov is a city in the Ukraine.
Tom: Yeah, I know.
Tom: If you find it, let me know.
Tom: It doesn't start with a K.
Tom: I think it starts with a K, but it's not.
Tom: I've got a story behind it once you find out what it is, though.
Tom: So all new pieces...
Tom: I don't know if you'll ever know.
Tom: All new PC games...
Tom: computers emerging from the fog at the Fogg household.
Tom: It's very exciting, but what we should probably get into is the news.
Tom: And obviously the biggest news of the week, though it has died off in the back end of the week, is the Not Ein Los Angeles.
Tom: I don't know how much of this you followed.
Tom: Keighley had his Summer Games Fest, IGN had their IGN Games Live or whatever it was called.
Tom: And then all of the individual studios had their individual shows, which were basically just transmit over the Internet.
Tom: Anyway, as it was when it was a real E
Tom: I've seen editorials in Eurogamer saying Eis back, and I kind of sort of get it, but not really.
Tom: But the closest thing to the old Ewas probably the Xbox Showcase, where they had different trailers.
Tom: And I thought it was a pretty good presentation.
Tom: Sony basically has already said that they're not bringing out any major games this year.
Tom: And in their presentation, they basically had Astro Bot, which is coming out for PlayStation
Tom: I don't know what their other big story was, but I think that's pretty much it, really.
Phil: What were your highlights of the Xbox Showcase?
Tom: Well, I loved it all.
Tom: I love...
Tom: Well, I didn't love it all.
Tom: I guess, you know, things like, honestly, probably the biggest thing to me was Gears of War, Emergence Day.
Tom: So this is a prequel to the original.
Tom: Did you see the trailer?
Phil: A little bit of it.
Tom: Yeah, so Marcus Fenix is returning.
Tom: So for those of you who haven't kept up with Gears of War, after Epic sold the franchise to Microsoft, Microsoft set up a studio just for Gears of War called Coalition.
Tom: And they created the sequels and and dropped the Gears of War and just called it Gears.
Tom: And these were, you know, different games, but still enjoyable.
Tom: Gears of War was enjoyable, but it had a lot of open world stuff where there was literally nothing to do.
Tom: It was just getting from one point to the other.
Tom: But the point is, they were creating an arc, a three game arc.
Tom: So there was supposed to be a Gears that would close out that story arc.
Tom: And obviously, for now, at least, that's been abandoned.
Tom: And I think rightfully so.
Tom: You know, breaking that narrative probably hurts the writers a little, but I think it's mature of the developer to recognize what the public wants and cater for it.
Tom: Because this was clearly a return to the original Gears of War pastiche.
Tom: They've called it Gears of War Emergence Day.
Tom: It's a prequel to the original.
Tom: And it just basically, based on the video that they showed, was just dumb, fun Gears of War.
Tom: And I think that's smart.
Tom: And it probably keeps the game on a smaller scale as well, keeping in mind that they're going to be releasing this free for the Xbox service and all the rest of it.
Tom: What did you think?
Phil: Well, I have only played a tiny bit of, I think, the first Gears of War that appeared on Xbox Game Pass.
Phil: So it's not really a series that I have had much experience with.
Phil: So all I can really say is, as you said, it does come across as being a bit of a pastiche of the original Gears of War, which I recognize as being best exemplified in the frat bro bandana being worn by one of the characters in the trailer, which I appreciate.
Tom: Yep, Marcus Fenix.
Tom: And look, it is a fun shooter.
Tom: It was the first cover based third person shooter, other than the Japanese one that I played.
Tom: I can't remember right now.
Tom: And it was inspired by Resident Evil
Tom: So Cliff Klesinski has said that that's what inspired him.
Tom: So it was a revolutionary game at its time and highly entertaining.
Tom: And just, you know, honestly, I think most people were drawn to it because it was incredible looking graphically.
Tom: Now, speaking of this...
Phil: These days, it's not so incredible looking graphically.
Tom: Oh, no.
Tom: No, not at all.
Tom: Not at all.
Tom: No.
Tom: But at the time on the and that's what made the special and that generation as opposed to the PlayStation generation it followed and the current one, it was a real leap into HD graphics.
Phil: While we're on the topic of games I haven't played, a trailer that followed directly on from Gizmo was Perfect Dark.
Tom: But before we go into that, I've just got to say, isn't it time for a Killzone reboot?
Phil: I don't think we'll see what.
Tom: Isn't it time?
Tom: Well, the dude who was the head of Guerrilla Games is now the head of Sony Gaming, Helmut Head or whatever his name is called, Helmut Helmutsen, but, you know.
Phil: Is that his real name?
Tom: Helmut Helmutsen?
Tom: The guy who runs Sony Game Studios, Global.
Phil: Classic Dutch name, Helmut Helmutsen.
Tom: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom: Like Lars Larsson or Christian Christensen and all that.
Tom: Eric Erickson.
Tom: Eric Erickson, not the good one.
Phil: John Johnson.
Tom: Yes, Tom Johnson.
Phil: And not Tom.
Phil: What Johnson?
Phil: John.
Tom: Oh, John Johnson.
Tom: They all look the same to me.
Tom: Now, I think if you've got you've got the Doom revival, you've got the Gears revival, Halo sort of out there.
Tom: But I think the pump is primed for a Killzone return.
Tom: Would you like the Killzone return, a reboot?
Phil: I think Guerrilla Games are proving themselves to be a genuinely creative studio by not going back to it, because the last thing we heard out of them was that they were sick of making Killzone games and didn't want to make any more.
Tom: Yeah, but then they make Horizon, which is this completely milquetoast boring garbage.
Phil: Maybe that's that's where their inspiration is now.
Tom: Oh, well, all the money they need a new muse, man.
Tom: They need a new muse.
Tom: And I am leading the campaign for any Killzone reboot.
Tom: Now, as for Perfect Dark, what did you think of the graphics in that trailer?
Phil: Before we get to the graphics, I want to talk about the gameplay because I didn't play the Xbox reboot, but I did play the original on the N
Phil: And if I'm not mistaken, that was very much a first-person shooter.
Phil: Was that true of the reboot as well?
Tom: The ?
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: So I played both of them.
Tom: I played them on the N
Tom: And I played it on...
Tom: And the charm of the None was basically it was technologically amazing on the Nwhich is hilarious now because I think it's like four frames per second.
Tom: I played the at launch and it was a poor game then, but I stuck through it because it was a release game and it didn't have a lot of other things to play.
Tom: But it was certainly poor.
Tom: I mean, it was a legitimate five and a half out of type game.
Phil: But it was a first-person shooter, correct?
Tom: Oh yeah, yeah.
Phil: Because the interesting thing about the Perfect Dark trailer is most of the gameplay they showed appeared to be very much in the vein of Mirror's Edge with a few stealth elements that didn't really seem to be any more complex than the stealth elements in Mirror's Edge.
Tom: Yeah, this particular trailer, I thought it's funny because it has some Mirror's Edge components to it that's very clearly ripping it off.
Tom: There was no first person platforming in the version.
Tom: I mean, this is a shameless rip off of Mirror's Edge, which is available on PlayStation
Tom: They did a re-release of it, and it's still as good as it was when it was first released.
Tom: But what I found to this beyond the Mirror's Edge stuff was more of a Deus Ex type vibe, which is a level of complexity I don't want in my first person games.
Phil: I think the atmosphere is like Deus Ex, but I don't really think the gameplay is.
Phil: The only gameplay they show that seems to have much going on in it is the platforming, the shooting and the stealth.
Phil: Of course, it's just a trailer, so it may be a lot more in-depth than it is here, but it is rudimentary at best, I would suggest.
Tom: I don't need that level of complexity in a shooter.
Tom: I'm not talking about the Mirror's Edge stuff.
Tom: I'm talking about looking through walls and things.
Tom: Exactly, and all that stuff.
Tom: I like stealth games.
Tom: I really do enjoy stealth games, but they've got to be confined to the stealth genre.
Tom: I don't want stealth modes in other games because they typically don't do it that well.
Phil: Before we move on from Perfect Dark...
Tom: Oh yeah, I've got more to say about it, actually.
Phil: We were just talking about Mirror's Edge, and I would have to say Mirror's Edge is surely one of the most underrated games of all time.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: I put that up there as a D platformer just a tiny bit below Super Mario Galaxy.
Tom: Oh yeah, I would agree with that.
Tom: And it is available...
Tom: I just want to re-emphasize, this was re-released, I don't know if it's on Xbox One, but it's certainly released on PlayStation
Tom: It is a revolutionary game, and the one thing that no first-person game was ever able to achieve positively, was platforming in the first person.
Tom: And it somehow manages to do it, and it doesn't in a great way.
Tom: And it had a good backstory, I think a good character, a great environment, it had great aesthetics.
Tom: It is one of the most underrated games of all time, even though it has its enthusiasts like us, it's not recognized for just how good it is.
Tom: And it will stand up there.
Tom: I certainly think that over the scope of history, it will be in that top games of all time, because it was revolutionary in so many ways.
Phil: Did it make our games of the decade list or did we forget about it?
Tom: Well, we didn't do a games of the decade for the decade in which it was initially released.
Tom: That was the wrong decade, okay.
Tom: But we can revisit that, I think, at some point.
Tom: The game, funnily enough, I don't know if you remember a really bad video game called Haze.
Phil: Yes, I do.
Phil: I never played it, but I followed it.
Phil: I remember Hyper had the most glowing previews for it you could possibly imagine.
Phil: It was going to be the greatest first person shooter based on their experiences playing it.
Phil: Then it came out.
Phil: It got a less than half page review, I think, and was considered to be complete shit all of a sudden.
Tom: Basically, people broke out of Rare, and then this was the first person shooter that they made, and it was Haze.
Tom: It was from the people that did GoldenEye
Tom: I think it was probably the Banjo and Kazooie crew, considering how it turned out.
Tom: Now, have you heard about John Lennon's quote, lost weekend?
Phil: His lost weekend?
Phil: No, I haven't.
Tom: Okay, well, people can look it up.
Tom: But basically, John Lennon left Yoko for quote, a lost weekend in Los Angeles, and it was with Eric Clapton.
Tom: And basically, he just went out and did whatever he wanted, which means sex and drugs.
Tom: And he called it his lost weekend.
Tom: Well, I had a lost weekend in where I played Haze and Area and whatever, what's that dinosaur killing game based on a cartoon?
Phil: Turok?
Tom: Turok.
Tom: So over a two day period, I played Turok on Haze on PlayStation or whatever, and Area the remake, and I played them back to back to back to their completion.
Tom: You know this story, surely?
Phil: I don't think so.
Tom: Because my wife was out of town, I was like, oh, this is fantastic.
Tom: I'm going to play these bee games and just drink beer the whole time and sit on the couch.
Tom: And it was truly my lost weekend.
Tom: And so the Area game held up was pretty good.
Tom: I thought the Turok game was pretty good as well.
Tom: Hayes was bad.
Tom: It was bad.
Tom: So basically, Hayes was about these guys that wear these yellow vases and their military contractors who have to take this drug called Hayes to get them in the mood for killing people with a lot of high energy.
Tom: And this game had some definite Hayes vibes to it.
Tom: Like there was a specific scene where someone was wearing a broken or on the ground wearing a broken cracked yellow visor, which was exactly the ones that they had in Hayes.
Tom: And it has to be a tribute.
Tom: Given the history of the team that made Hayes and the team that's making Perfect Dark, I think it has to be a tribute.
Phil: You think so?
Tom: How could it not?
Tom: I'll send you a picture.
Tom: Now, what's the next game?
Phil: Before we move on from this topic, do you know what the standard issue drug is in the American Army these days?
Tom: Fentanyl, cocaine.
Tom: What's the one that the college students take to keep awake while they study?
Tom: The ADHD one.
Phil: Is it Xanax?
Tom: I wouldn't think Xanax.
Tom: Something that's an upper.
Phil: So they've gone from heroin to Xanax?
Tom: Oh, I don't know.
Tom: You tell me.
Phil: A long time to be joining the Army.
Phil: I don't know.
Phil: I'm asking you.
Tom: Oh, okay.
Tom: No, I don't know.
Tom: But I'm sure it's something that keeps you awake and keeps you angry and wanting to kill people.
Tom: Maybe they make them listen to our podcast before they go into combat.
Phil: Maybe they make them listen to TikToks of our podcast.
Tom: Oh, God.
Tom: That would be.
Tom: We got to do it.
Tom: Now, next trailer that caught your attention at the Xbox Showcase.
Phil: The next one was probably, I think, the State of Decay because I thought State of Decay already existed.
Phil: I didn't watch the trailer, but I saw there was a State of Decay and thought to myself, wasn't there already a State of Decay ?
Tom: This was, I think I had co-equal thoughts in my head.
Tom: Wasn't there already a State of Decay ?
Tom: And how did State of Decay get a sequel?
Tom: I'm completely unimpressed with State of Decay as a franchise.
Phil: I think the Endless Backlog Podcast was a big fan of State of Decay.
Tom: Oh yeah.
Tom: And what was their latest episode?
Tom: Did they talk about it on there?
Tom: Oh no, that's right.
Tom: They're no longer releasing podcasts.
Phil: So we've survived Endless Backlog, have we?
Tom: I think so.
Tom: I don't even think they have a website anymore, but this is Endless Gossip.
Tom: We shouldn't be talking about this.
Tom: So yeah, so any other impressions from Endless Decay, I was going to say?
Phil: No, I didn't even watch the trailer.
Phil: I just saw that it existed.
Tom: I watched it long enough to struggle with the fact that it still existed, and I have no interest in it whatsoever.
Tom: What about Metal Gear Solid Snake Eater?
Tom: Did you watch that one?
Phil: I did watch that trailer, and how many versions of Metal Gear Solid are we up to now?
Phil: Must be a lot of them.
Tom: I think this is only the third.
Tom: We had the original, then we had the Xbox upgrade, and I think this is it.
Tom: Okay.
Tom: Yeah, but did you notice the voice actor was not the dude?
Tom: It was David Hayter.
Phil: Yeah, it was not Kiefer Sutherland.
Tom: No, the dude, yes.
Tom: It wasn't Kiefer Sutherland, it was David Hayter.
Tom: I'm like, wow, this is quite a reversal.
Tom: I guess that Hideo Kojima just hated David Hayter and wanted to curry favor with a Hollywood superstar because now that he's out of the picture, that brought David Hayter back to record all these new lines.
Tom: Wow, that's not very Konami, is it?
Tom: Except they did a very Konami thing.
Tom: They have not rehired the original voice cast.
Tom: They are merely reusing the same recordings from the original.
Tom: So they're not going to pay a single cent more to any of the original voice cast.
Tom: They're just reusing the same recordings.
Phil: Well, they may re-see some royalties.
Phil: We don't know what their contracts were.
Tom: We do not, but I doubt it involves royalties.
Tom: But anyway, very Konami.
Tom: What did you think?
Tom: What must Kojima think of this re-release?
Tom: What do you think?
Tom: I mean, he must...
Tom: Is he like, yeah, whatever?
Phil: As far as the voice actor choice is concerned, he did say that he went for Kiefer Sutherland due to the more complex story in Metal Gear Solid V compared to previous games in the series.
Phil: So if we're to believe that, maybe he would have recast David Hayter.
Tom: Yeah, and that's why Kiefer Sutherland says a total of words in Metal Gear Solid V.
Tom: What a crock.
Tom: He's trying to carry favor with a celebrity, you know?
Tom: And Kiefer Sutherland, he must be like or by now.
Tom: Anyway, otherwise, what was your reaction to the video, to the trailer?
Tom: Did it compel you to play it again?
Phil: Not at all.
Phil: It made me think of replaying the original version on PlayStation
Tom: Oh, yeah, because they did the remaster.
Tom: So have you still got a GameCube?
Phil: I've still got a GameCube, yep.
Tom: Okay, well, you know, they've got the remake on the GameCube.
Phil: I have always wanted to play that, but unfortunately, the last time I checked, that was going for like to dollars.
Tom: Twin snakes.
Tom: You know, I was moments away from saying, don't worry about it, my friend, I will send it to you.
Tom: You can keep it for free.
Tom: So, dollars, huh?
Tom: Now, I have the PlayStation re-release as well of the original.
Tom: And I've tried to play Metal Gear Solid the original.
Tom: I am not exaggerating, like, six times.
Tom: My wife beat the game, the original one, and I watched it all the way through.
Tom: I just can't get motivated about Metal Gear Solid.
Tom: I know it was a really great game when it came out in
Tom: I've tried to play the GameCube version.
Tom: I've tried to play the original on the original hardware.
Tom: And I just can't get into it.
Tom: My reaction to the trailer was, yeah, okay.
Phil: I think Metal Gear Solid remains a great game today.
Phil: I replayed it not that long ago, and it still holds up.
Tom: Oh, the sense of humor holds up.
Tom: And the gameplay holds up as well.
Tom: You know, I played it probably a year ago with the original hardware.
Tom: And it definitely holds up.
Phil: And I think the graphics are perhaps the best part of it.
Tom: Yeah, yeah, they're good.
Tom: Very good.
Tom: I have...
Tom: No one cares about this.
Tom: I've got the Blemcast.
Tom: Do you know what Blemcast is?
Tom: You do?
Tom: OK, well, I've got the Blemcast Mod Disk, so I can play the original PlayStation game on Dreamcast in Dreamcast quality graphics.
Tom: And it looks incredible.
Tom: It looks absolutely incredible.
Tom: So now, did you watch the...
Tom: Well, what's the next trailer that caught your interest?
Phil: The next trailer that caught my interest was a game called Claire Obscure, Expedition
Tom: I skipped that one.
Tom: What's the story with that one?
Phil: I think, judging by the art style, I presume it's some sort of JRPG, maybe with some beat-em-up elements in it.
Phil: And I thought the settings sounded and the narrative sounded vaguely interesting.
Phil: Apparently, when anyone turns, I think, they disappear due to some mythical goddess-type character who paints pictures resulting in this.
Phil: So you're on an expedition to try and find her and put an end to her meddling painting.
Tom: Okay, there was a game released in
Tom: Obviously, that's not it, because that was released on PlayStation
Tom: So the name of the game again is Claire.
Phil: Obscure Expedition
Tom: Obscure.
Phil: Obscure.
Tom: Expedition
Tom: Okay, yeah, available on Steam.
Phil: I could have got the age wrong.
Phil: Maybe solvers.
Tom: Oh, okay, so I'm getting vibes of that French rat game.
Phil: The one you like.
Tom: Yeah, yeah.
Tom: Did you get the same thing?
Phil: A little bit, yeah.
Tom: Yeah, well, look at the Eiffel Tower getting twisted out of all contortion and all the rest of it.
Tom: Yeah, that looks pretty interesting.
Tom: Developed by Sandfall Interactive, published by Kepler.
Tom: So again, no idea who any of these people are.
Tom: Yeah, that's interesting.
Tom: Back to the mainstream.
Tom: The next game that I looked at was Stalker
Tom: And if you can open the show notes here.
Phil: Is Stalker mainstream these days?
Tom: Well, it's a known game compared to Claire Obscure.
Tom: Do you see that picture I've got there?
Phil: Yes, I do.
Tom: Yeah, now I thought the game looked very Half-Life -ish.
Tom: It's a narrative shooter.
Tom: And I think at the start of the trailer, they even had a tribute to Valve.
Tom: With a red valve that the character turns to go through a door.
Tom: I mean, again, I think that has to be a tribute.
Tom: That was my impression.
Tom: That was your impression also?
Phil: Not just in the trailer, but I think something in the intro of the original game is also clearly a Valve reference.
Tom: Yeah, I think they use the Valve engine or something, don't they?
Tom: I don't think so.
Tom: Yeah, I think so.
Phil: The original game had its own engine, which is far beyond the Half-Life engine.
Tom: Source engine, yeah, for sure.
Tom: But yeah, I mean, I'd play it.
Tom: You're a big fan of Stalker originally, aren't you?
Phil: Yes, I am.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: It's easily one of my favorite games.
Phil: I think it's...
Phil: You can make a very good argument that it is easily the best first-person shooter ever.
Phil: I think the only argument against it would be the original Doom.
Phil: I think it's between those two, but in the modern style of first-person shooters, I don't think any are even comparable.
Tom: No, no.
Tom: And it is exciting.
Tom: It's been in development for a long time.
Tom: Well, I mean, it's Stalker all right?
Tom: So Stalker would have come out in the early s, I think.
Tom: So yeah, I'm encouraged by that.
Tom: I'm not going to play it on Xbox, but I'm very encouraged by it.
Tom: Getting off, was there another game, independent game that you saw?
Phil: Now, I saw a headline in which, supposedly Beyond Good and Evil is the game that has been in development for the longest time.
Tom: Yes.
Phil: When was that announced?
Tom: Well, it passed Duke Nukem in as being the oldest game, or the game that has been longest in development.
Phil: See, here's the thing I'm confused about, because it's announced at Ein
Tom: Yep.
Tom: So that's only a year.
Phil: Stalker was originally going to be released in
Tom: Yeah, that's what I thought.
Phil: And it was announced in
Tom: Yeah, that's what I thought as well.
Tom: When I went back and looked at it.
Phil: So Stalker would be much older.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: Well, we'll have to post a comment.
Phil: Maybe they say the word, their definition of it is it's in continuous development or something.
Phil: But I would suggest clearly there has been no further development beyond Good and Evil
Phil: So I don't think that's a good argument.
Tom: Okay.
Tom: So Duke Nukem Forever went days when it was announced in to
Tom: And Beyond Good and Evil was announced in
Tom: So when was Stalker announced?
Phil: Was it announced in ?
Phil: Wasn't it announced at E?
Phil: Before that, wasn't it just rumors?
Tom: No, in that's when they released the re the HD version.
Tom: So Ubisoft began officially discussing Beyond Good and Evil back in when they released a CGI trailer for the project.
Phil: according to Wikipedia, Ansel said that it was in pre-production.
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: I wouldn't call that an announcement.
Tom: Well, they released a teaser trailer.
Tom: Anyway, I get your point, but I think on the facts, I can trust Eurogamer that they did the appropriate level of research as opposed to RCO calls and chuckle heads.
Phil: That's if Eurogamer has heard of Stalker
Tom: That's true.
Tom: Okay, so next game after Stalker what took your interest?
Phil: I'm not sure many other games did.
Phil: I think South of Midnight was a somewhat interesting setting for a game, maybe inspired by Resident Evil
Tom: Okay, that's another totally different sort of game.
Phil: But fantasy take on South, Southern America, I think is an interesting idea.
Tom: The South of America, I thought it was set like in Louisiana type thing, like in the Bayou.
Tom: That's what I thought, at least.
Phil: Where is that located geographically?
Tom: I'm saying the American South as opposed to South America.
Phil: Yeah, the South of America.
Tom: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Tom: Yeah, it's definitely got some Resident Evil vibes to it.
Tom: Yeah, so anything else to say on that one?
Phil: Not really.
Tom: Okay, well, the other major games obviously was Call of Duty Black Ops which broke out with the Firestarter song, which is, I think, the perfect musical accompaniment for that trailer.
Tom: It looks like a political satire set in the s with a Kurt Russell look-alike, which I don't know how they get away with it.
Tom: And I thought the trailer was hilarious, unintentionally, of course.
Tom: It just was fantastic bombast.
Tom: So I don't know what sort of game it's going to be, but I think the people that did the trailer did a fantastic job of selling it.
Tom: It was certainly very, you know, blockbusterish.
Tom: So another game that was prominent was Indiana Jones from Machine Games, the people that did the Wolfenstein reboot.
Tom: I think it looks like ass.
Tom: It looks absolutely terrible.
Tom: Like the graphics, that is.
Tom: It looks like era, and I don't understand it.
Tom: I do not understand it at all.
Tom: It just must be an early trailer.
Tom: It's getting released this year, so obviously it's going to look good at some point.
Phil: Well, the animation is definitely not era, but all the textures and that sort of stuff, it looks like a PC game on low settings.
Tom: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom: It looked like ass.
Tom: And I don't know if it was because I was watching it on YouTube on a very good TV.
Tom: And I thought Troy Baker, who was doing the voice, what did you think of the voice acting of Indy?
Phil: I watched about two seconds of it and couldn't bear to watch anymore.
Tom: I understand that because there was no gameplay.
Tom: It was just like a big long video.
Tom: It was very boring.
Tom: I'll still play it.
Tom: And I thought Troy Baker did a fantastic job.
Tom: I heard it and I was like, oh, wow, that sounds just like Harrison Ford.
Tom: Though his performance has received some criticism from some corners.
Tom: I thought it sounded great.
Tom: Do you know what those corners...
Tom: Do you care what corners that criticism has come from?
Phil: What corners did the criticism come from?
Tom: One, Jeff Gerstmann.
Phil: What was his issue with it?
Tom: He said it didn't sound like Indiana Jones at all.
Phil: Can I just say, I think...
Phil: I'm perplexed as to why it needs to look like Harrison Ford and sound like Harrison Ford.
Tom: Yeah, I agree.
Phil: Isn't Indiana Jones a character?
Phil: Does the character have to be...
Tom: No...
Phil: .
Phil: confined to a single actor?
Tom: No.
Tom: In fact, it would be smart to branch out from it.
Tom: You know.
Phil: Exactly.
Tom: Now, the most recent Indiana Jones movie was not good.
Tom: Well, I'll say it was okay, but like the first...
Tom: What turned me off was the first minutes was all CGI with a young Harrison Ford, which was clearly CGI.
Tom: I think that'd be wise to break away from it.
Phil: So you're saying they should make the game live action, not CGI?
Tom: No, no.
Tom: I'm saying they should just go away from indie.
Tom: But let's just pause for a moment and I'll play some audio so our listeners can make their own choice.
<v SPEAKER_>If you were to draw a line through these ancient sites around the globe, you get a perfectly aligned circle.
Tom: Yeah, so there you go.
Tom: Make your own choice.
Tom: On to Jeff Gerstmann.
Tom: It's kind of funny.
Tom: We haven't talked about it, but since we last recorded when he left Giant Bomb, he's since revealed that he was in fact fired from Giant Bomb and did have to scramble to come up with the new podcast, which I had thought was the case.
Phil: What do you mean by scramble to come up with a new podcast?
Phil: Because essentially he just made a YouTube channel and started talking shit into the camera.
Tom: He had to start a Patreon in a slipshod manner.
Phil: Don't you just type in your email, enter a password, add your bank details.
Tom: Yeah, but you know, he came in hype is what I'm saying.
Tom: And that's what I predicted.
Phil: I'm just saying, man goes from running a podcast that just consists of him sitting around all day, talking random shit, gets fired, goes to youtube.com, enters his name, enters his email address, enters his password, goes to patreon.com and does the same thing.
Tom: Not really, though, because for the last well, last or years, he's had a whole team of producers and people who do art.
Phil: And what you're saying is he'd become so incompetent over that time period.
Tom: Yes.
Phil: It was a challenge for him to visit the website.
Tom: Podcast got created while he was inside the corporate infrastructure.
Tom: So he didn't have the skill set to do what we do, which is independent, you know, video game reporting being Australia's longest running video game.
Phil: He didn't even do what we did.
Phil: He didn't go to Squarespace and create a website.
Tom: No, didn't.
Phil: It went to YouTube.
Tom: It went to YouTube.
Tom: But anyway, this is...
Tom: Just bear with me for a second.
Tom: So, like, he hasn't gone to any of these video game events, right?
Tom: So he starts priming the pump, to use a phrase, that he's going to go to Summer Games Fest in LA.
Phil: As soon as he finds a chauffeur.
Tom: Well, he lives in the valley, which is just north of LA.
Tom: So, okay, yep, we're going to do it.
Tom: We're going to go in public, and I'm going to interact with real human beings for the first time in two years.
Tom: And I'm going to talk to people about video games.
Tom: And I'm going to make appointments.
Tom: So last week, before the show, he's all, oh, yeah, yeah, you know, I don't know what's going on.
Tom: Yeah, my throat, yeah, you know, I can hardly speak.
Tom: And he struggled through the podcast.
Tom: Okay, you know, he's not even aware of the concept of self-sabotage.
Tom: But he's obviously so nervous about going back out in public and being a gaming personality that, you know, he's like, oh, yeah.
Tom: And immediately, I'm like, oh, he's not, he's not going.
Tom: None of this is going to happen.
Tom: So on this week's podcast, he's all, yeah, you know, I was really looking forward to it.
Tom: I had all these appointments and everything, but, you know, my, my voice, you know, I lost my voice and I couldn't do it.
Tom: So, yeah, anyway, this is inside baseball to the extreme, but it was just funny.
Tom: It was just funny because you could see it coming down Main Street.
Tom: Anyway, back to the showcase.
Tom: Fable, did you have a look at that trailer?
Phil: Yes, I did.
Tom: No gameplay, but allegedly releasing next year.
Phil: And I thought it was an amusing enough trailer.
Tom: Yeah, I mean, yeah, ugly people, you know, I mean, you know, I have strong feelings.
Tom: I don't have strong feelings.
Tom: Fable was okay.
Tom: Fable was outstanding.
Tom: And I also enjoyed Fable just thought it was a bit short.
Tom: Yeah, I'd be happy to see another fable.
Phil: I thought the original fable was excellent.
Tom: Yeah, I thought Fable was better, probably being a bit harsh by just calling it okay, the original.
Tom: But I'd probably subscribe to Xbox Game Pass to play the new fable.
Tom: There you go.
Tom: That would be my killer app, I guess, even though it's not being developed by the now defunct developer.
Phil: It would be your killer app, except it's probably going to be a gigabyte download.
Tom: That too.
Tom: And then the final thing I got from it, Flight Sim looked absolutely incredible.
Tom: And they're adding a campaign mode, giving the game some definition that it currently doesn't have.
Tom: Are there any other games you want to talk about from the not E?
Phil: There's two I would add.
Phil: The first one is Atomfall.
Tom: Atomfall.
Phil: Atomfall.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: Oh, yeah.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: Which I hope is developed by the people who made Atomic Heart because it looks very much like Atomic Heart.
Tom: You know, it was developed by, developed and published by Rebellion.
Phil: So apparently it isn't.
Tom: No, I don't think so.
Tom: Looks pretty.
Phil: It raises, I think, quite a few questions.
Tom: Looks very pretty.
Tom: It's like a first person action adventure game.
Phil: Apparently the developer is the same one who made Sniper Elite.
Tom: Oh, OK.
Tom: Well, that's a good game.
Phil: Yes, it is.
Phil: I've never played it, but I've heard good things.
Tom: Yeah, I've never played it either.
Phil: So we're just assuming it's a good game.
Tom: Have you come up with that really intense first person shooter game yet?
Phil: What's the really intense first person shooter game?
Tom: The one we couldn't come up with.
Phil: With the K.
Tom: With the K, which doesn't really have a K.
Tom: Call of Pripyat.
Tom: No, that's not it.
Phil: Call of Duty.
Tom: Anyway, we'll come up with it because I've got a story behind it.
Tom: God damn it.
Phil: Well, there's one last game we have to mention here.
Tom: Yes.
Phil: And I'm surprised you didn't mention it yourself.
Phil: That is Life is Strange Double Exposure.
Tom: Yes.
Tom: The return of Max Caulfield.
Tom: And she's now a quote adult, though I couldn't tell from the the screenshots that were shared.
Tom: And she's a photographer and she's going to serve a murder mystery.
Phil: A friend, of course, another friend.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: Lesbian, I assume.
Phil: I would hope so.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: So what did you mean?
Tom: I've kind of lost the plot.
Tom: Beyond.
Tom: I liked Life is Strange.
Tom: I like the before the storm, but I haven't really gotten into any of the other Life is Strange games.
Phil: But I've only played the original and the demo for Life is Strange which I think had little to do with Life is Strange
Tom: It did.
Tom: It was not very good at all.
Tom: I would recommend that you play before the storm if you like the original, because it's exactly the same level of quality and highly enjoyable.
Phil: But my only question on it would be why.
Tom: It would be why what?
Phil: Why bring back Max?
Tom: Oh, this is what that studio does.
Tom: We talked a couple of episodes ago about the controversy of sexual harassment and other stuff that was going on with that studio.
Tom: And, you know, people leaving and all the rest of it and all the drama.
Tom: I mean, this is what that studio does.
Tom: So this is what they got.
Tom: You know, they haven't got any other ideas.
Tom: They haven't got any other games.
Tom: So I think this is a good way to return to the well.
Tom: Yeah, I don't criticize them for it.
Tom: It's what they got.
Tom: It's kind of like Telltale back in the day.
Phil: I'm just saying it seems to go against, I think, the theme of the first game a little bit.
Tom: In what way?
Phil: Well, I suppose it depends on what ending you choose, actually.
Phil: So if you choose the correct ending.
Phil: I think it's about accepting that you're not necessarily going to be able to control certain things in your life.
Tom: The developer came out today.
Phil: And that appears to be the canon ending, given that one of the lines in the trailer was, I swore to never use my powers again until now.
Tom: Life is strange.
Tom: Developers have come out today.
Tom: I'm amazed that you've even brought this up.
Tom: Are you aware of today's new story?
Phil: No, I'm not.
Tom: Well, that confirmed which ending was canon, but you're not going to like it.
Phil: Okay, which one?
Tom: Both.
Tom: They've said that both.
Phil: Their line of dialogue doesn't make any sense.
Tom: Well, I'll send you the link, which we're not going to go into in this show, but I'll send you the link to the new story and you can read yourself.
Tom: They said that it was really important at Deck that if we were going to make another max adventure, that the game would have to respect both of those endings.
Tom: There's no canon ending in our book of the first game.
Tom: Double exposure will respect both endings and it's all reflective of that final choice.
Tom: I think that...
Phil: Interesting to see how they do that.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: I think that's a loss of intellectual credibility.
Tom: And really a weak way out.
Tom: That pretty much closes up the Xbox and not EExpo.
Tom: I'm saddened to tell you, I don't know if you knew Cameron Davis, known as his screen name Gazunta.
Tom: He was an Australian gaming media developer and comic creator.
Tom: And he passed away, unfortunately, at not the age that you're supposed to pass away.
Tom: And he wrote for a number of places, including GameSpot.
Tom: He was the contributing editor to the official Xbox magazine in Australia.
Tom: And then he moved over to the game dev side of things and developed Tie the Tasmanian Tiger, worked on Spyro games at Chrome, and had a few web comics as well, which unfortunately are no longer up on the web.
Tom: I looked for them last night.
Tom: He had plenty of YouTube videos.
Tom: He was an aficionado of the Commodore as was I, and lived nearby me in Brisbane, Australia.
Tom: So this is the passing of one of the few Australian video game media personalities.
Tom: He reached out to me a couple of years ago, I'm going to say, with a free demo of Tie the Tasmanian Tiger.
Tom: When it got re-released for the Switch, he sent me a code for it.
Tom: He found us through Twitter.
Tom: And yeah, I didn't know him personally, but I just figured since we're Australia's longest running video game podcast, it was worth a mention and a tribute to him, Cameron Davis Gazunta.
Phil: I think I've heard of him.
Phil: Did he maybe also write for Hyper?
Tom: I believe he did.
Tom: Yeah, yeah, he did.
Tom: I knew his name from years and years and years ago that he'd just pop up here and there.
Tom: And yeah, the credit for this story goes to Roseterra.
Tom: So this will not be included in our terrible takedown obituaries.
Tom: Yeah, he died quite young.
Tom: I think he was in his early s or late s of medical complications.
Tom: So and lives behind a family.
Tom: In better news or lighter news, credit to IGN for this story, Star Citizen pushes through $million raised and no, there still isn't a release date after years.
Tom: Star Citizen has now raised over $million, according to the developer Cloud Imperium Games.
Tom: The developer behind the controversial Space Sim, and it's controversial exactly because the amount of money it's raised and the fact that it has not yet been released, is considered one of the most controversial projects in all video games.
Tom: Over years since its crowdfunding drive began, it's been called many things, including a scam, by those that wonder whether it will ever properly launch.
Tom: It sells virtual spaceships, some which cost hundreds of dollars, and often are the focus of criticism.
Tom: So have you checked in on Star Citizen ever?
Tom: I mean, it's supposed to be...
Tom: Well, they were going to release a standalone story-based game starring Mark Hamill and Gillian Anderson.
Tom: And they're saying, oh yeah, it's still coming out, it's still coming out.
Tom: It just seems like a scam to me.
Tom: I don't know why people would keep contributing money to this.
Phil: I would presume it's a scam.
Tom: It has to be.
Tom: It's based on that first-person space sim game.
Tom: I can't remember the name of it right now, but basically it came out in the s, and people are going to be screaming at this podcast with the name of it.
Tom: Basically, the whole concept is, yeah, you walk around the space station, and then you hop in the spaceship, and then you can fly it off, and you can customize your ship.
Tom: It's supposed to be...
Phil: Wing Commander?
Tom: Wing Commander, exactly.
Tom: The IGN poll said, when will Star Citizen finally release?
Tom: And in came back with %.
Tom: came back with %.
Tom: And then never came back with % out of voters.
Tom: And I have to think that this is going to go the way of the Intellivision Amico and the Phantom console and all the rest of it.
Tom: I don't think this is ever going to come out.
Tom: I don't know how they're going to get away with it, but I don't think it's ever going to come out.
Phil: I don't think it's even in development.
Tom: Well, I think they're doing assets.
Tom: I mean, they've got to be $million.
Phil: They're working on trailers.
Tom: Yeah, exactly.
Tom: So now we'll go on to what you've been playing.
Tom: And I've been playing a little bit, but I'm actually more interested in, we've got a lot to go through in this episode.
Tom: So I just want to hear about, you've returned to Baldur's Gate right?
Phil: Yes, I have.
Phil: After being away from my PC for a month or so.
Tom: Oh, that's right.
Tom: Yeah, because of your extensive travel, your cross continental travel.
Phil: But on my return, I actually did not return to it immediately.
Phil: I played two other games, which you may hear about in a future episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: But it's been an interesting experience returning to it after such a long break.
Phil: I am very much near the end of the game.
Phil: I think if I wanted to, I could just walk to the final battle and finish it.
Phil: So the only reason I am continuing is to finish the side quests, at least the important ones.
Phil: And in many of those cases as well, they are usually pretty close to the end.
Phil: So I am hoping I will be able to finish it by the end of the year.
Tom: Do you think you are leveled up enough to take on the final boss?
Tom: Because apparently it's pretty easy.
Phil: Well, I am now, I think, the max level.
Phil: So if I am not leveled up enough to beat the final boss, that could be a problem.
Tom: It's a problem in the game, yeah.
Tom: Because it's not really the final boss, because after that you get to keep playing and go back through it and all the rest of it.
Phil: Do you?
Tom: Yeah, yeah.
Tom: It's just the start of the game.
Tom: It's one of those games.
Tom: I probably just do some research, because you might be able to finish it and then go back and do all the side quest stuff.
Tom: It depends how you feel about that sort of thing.
Tom: As for me, once I see a credit roll, I have no interest in any other content from that game and find it difficult to get back into.
Tom: But still just as enjoyable.
Tom: Obviously, if you're going through and doing the side quests and stuff like that, you're finding it interesting.
Phil: Yeah, definitely.
Phil: I think the Baldur's Gate area, which is the final part of the game, I think it's the issue with it is, to begin with, it was probably one of the less interesting areas in the game.
Phil: But as I progress through the side quests, it's become a lot more interesting.
Phil: I think the problem is the pacing, because the whole game, not the whole game, the previous passage, at least the way I play through it, because you can take different routes to get to this part of the game, has this massive, very climactic battle and then you get plunked down on the outskirts of Baldur's Gate and make your way into the city.
Phil: And for a long time, you're basically just walking around, starting side quest after side quest after side quest, with none of them really going anywhere.
Phil: Now, when you get to the last area of the city, there's, I think, three sections to it.
Phil: There's the outskirts of it, the first section of the city, and then the last section of the city.
Phil: By the time you get to the last section of the city, the side quests have progressed to the point where they're actually interesting and you're not just starting one quest after another.
Phil: So it's now become probably one of the most interesting areas in the game after a pretty slow start, to say the least.
Tom: Have you gotten into Witcher at all?
Phil: I played the Witcher to completion and did the majority of side quests in it.
Tom: Yeah, I would love to play Witcher to completion.
Tom: It was one of the few games where I found the side quests really compelling.
Tom: I just want to do as many of these as possible.
Tom: So you're finding the side quests obviously very engaging in this game as well.
Phil: I would say they're significantly more interesting than the main plot line.
Tom: Yeah, which is not often the case.
Phil: Definitely not.
Tom: Anything more new on that?
Phil: I would also add it reminds me quite a bit of Yakuza in how the side quests play.
Phil: A lot of them are pretty amusing and sometimes off the wall things happening in them.
Phil: While the main quest is a little bit more tame.
Tom: Well, that's understandable.
Tom: The side stories are there for people who are really interested in the game.
Tom: So that gives the creators more artistic license to go quote off script.
Tom: So that makes sense.
Phil: That's pretty much it for now.
Tom: OK, well, I figured we might go into a feature at this point.
Tom: Retro Gamer Magazine.
Tom: Are you familiar with Retro Gamer Magazine?
Phil: I am.
Tom: It is one of the fantastic bastions of video game magazines.
Tom: I think it's one of the last four standing.
Tom: They recently released their top retro games of all time.
Tom: So those are games that are basically before
Tom: I forget why is the cutoff.
Tom: Let's see if it's now.
Tom: You've got a calculator there.
Tom: I will open one.
Tom: minus is years.
Tom: And I can buy that.
Tom: So how do you want to approach this?
Phil: I think that's probably because isn't that the beginning of the Wii era?
Phil: The PSera.
Tom: Yeah, that's probably it.
Phil: So I would say games have not really advanced since then.
Phil: So it makes sense.
Phil: That was the last, with the exception of the Wii, of course.
Phil: Of course.
Phil: Actually, yeah, if we include the Wii, that makes sense.
Phil: So yeah, that was the last time we've had any innovation in gaming.
Tom: This is basically up through Dreamcast, if that helps.
Tom: Yep.
Tom: So is there a particular game you think would be on the top ?
Tom: I'll tell you where it is on it.
Phil: Metal Gear Solid.
Tom: Metal Gear Solid.
Tom: Yeah, this might not work.
Tom: It's not on the list.
Phil: It's not on the list?
Tom: No, that was from
Tom: Oh, MGS, if I put in MGS.
Tom: Will you tell me where MGS is?
Phil: Well, I can tell you where it is, because due to your failed searching, I did it myself.
Tom: Oh, come on.
Tom: But where do you think it should be?
Phil: Where should it be?
Phil: I think anywhere in the top is reasonable.
Tom: Which it made it, number
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: Now stop looking at the list, stop searching.
Tom: You tell me another one that you think would be in the top
Tom: Doom.
Tom: Oh, well, Doom, of course, is in the top
Phil: That should be top not top
Tom: And it is number two.
Tom: You're doing well.
Tom: You're doing well.
Tom: Now just thinking about your personal retro games that you love up to the Dreamcast era.
Tom: So from arcade up to Dreamcast I guess, is when the Dreamcast launch.
Tom: You know, just think about the games that you like, not the ones you think are going to be on there, because everyone knows Ocarina is going to be up there and all the rest of it.
Phil: What about Final Fantasy ?
Tom: Final Fantasy ?
Tom: Where would you place it?
Phil: I would say top
Tom: Number
Phil: That's not bad.
Phil: I would expect it to be on the top for most lists.
Tom: Where would you think Lemmings would fall?
Phil: Lemmings?
Phil: That's a hard one.
Tom: It's pretty good.
Phil: That could make it into my top
Tom: It would make it into my top also.
Tom: It made it number on this list.
Phil: I think that's too low.
Tom: Yeah, well, let's just go through the top and we can agree or disagree.
Tom: How about that?
Tom: A quick round.
Tom: Number we'll start with was...
Tom: No, let's start with number
Tom: Let's start with number
Tom: It's too delicious not to do so.
Tom: Secret Monkey Island, not on my top
Tom: Yours?
Phil: I think that's a good pick.
Phil: I'd put that in the top
Tom: Okay, I got to say now this is just painful.
Phil: It's put Fandango on it.
Tom: Not in the top no.
Tom: Resident Evil is number
Tom: That would definitely be in my top
Tom: Yours?
Phil: Maybe.
Tom: Pong, they've got it which would definitely be in my top
Phil: I think that should be higher too.
Tom: Yeah, okay.
Tom: Half Life is
Phil: That's too high.
Tom: Too high, you think?
Phil: Yeah, too high.
Tom: You hated that game.
Phil: That's why I'm saying it's too high.
Tom: It should be higher, it's at
Phil: It should be lower.
Phil: High is low is
Tom: I think you're high.
Tom: I'm just going to look through a wipeout.
Tom: Would you put wipeout in a top ?
Phil: I think top definitely.
Tom: Yeah, it was number
Tom: Shadow of the Colossus,
Tom: Soul Calibur,
Phil: Shadow of the Colossus,
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: Where's Eco?
Tom: Eco, well, if they put Shadow of the Colossus there, you know they're going to give Eco
Phil: Good on them.
Phil: But that should be top if not top
Tom: I think it should be top
Phil: Top
Tom: Where would you put crazy?
Tom: OK, OK, Grand Turismo should be top
Tom: Grand Turismo.
Phil: Grand Turismo, one of them has got to be in the top
Tom: Has to be.
Tom: The original was
Phil: What about ?
Tom: Oh, is not going to...
Tom: No, they're not going to have on this.
Phil: should be on that list.
Tom: No, no.
Tom: All I've got is the first one at
Phil: That's a horrendous decision.
Tom: Yeah, I would put above personally.
Phil: But then you can remove
Tom: Okay, here's another dumb one.
Phil: Gran Turismo is the next generation of racing games, but still within the whole time period they've got.
Tom: Yeah, you're right.
Tom: You are right.
Tom: I'm talking about personal stuff.
Tom: Doom II, that's fine.
Tom: Earthbound,
Tom: Earthbound would not be on my top
Tom: Chrono Trigger I get it.
Tom: Wolfenstein D, the original one for the PC,
Tom: I guess it would be closer to for me because of what it did.
Phil: You could make an argument for top five.
Phil: Well, I wouldn't put it there though.
Tom: No, I wouldn't.
Tom: Super Monkey Ball
Phil: That's an underrated one.
Tom: It is.
Tom: Morrowind
Phil: That's a perfect number for it.
Tom: I would have put the guy game at but SimCity.
Tom: SimCity, the original SimCity.
Tom: That's a top game or top
Tom: Anyway,
Phil: I think top
Tom: Yes,
Phil: I wouldn't put it on my personal top but I'd expect it to be in a top on our list.
Tom: Number was Civ for the PC.
Phil: Surely a Civilization should be higher.
Tom: Well, there has to be.
Tom: Let's have a look for another Civ.
Tom: No, that's it.
Tom: Civ got and that's it.
Phil: I think that's a bizarre decision.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: Now, were you interested in Day of the Tentacle?
Tom: Didn't you ask me about it?
Phil: I've briefly played it.
Phil: It's in the re-release of...
Phil: There's a re-release of Day of the Tentacle.
Phil: I think.
Phil: Is that the one that was re-released?
Phil: That had a remake.
Phil: I hate the remake.
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: And the original is in the remake.
Tom: I'm only going to rock your mind for one more before we get into the top
Tom: Double Dragon for the Arcade
Tom: Tony Hawk Pro Skater, the original for the PlayStation his number, you want to guess?
Phil: That could get into my top
Tom:
Phil: I think it should be at least top
Tom: Yeah, I think that's a crime.
Phil: Is a PSTony Hawk on the list?
Tom: No, that is the only TPS.
Phil: I think that's another crime.
Tom: Well, but Dreamcast released up to three.
Tom: So yeah, I think it's a crime as well.
Tom: Pokemon Red, Blue, Deus Ex,
Tom: So now into the top
Tom: I'm going to give you the names of the games in the top
Tom: You guess where they landed.
Tom: Okay.
Phil: Yep.
Tom: Tomb Raider.
Phil: That's probably low.
Phil: As in a high number.
Tom: It came in at number
Tom: I wouldn't put it in the top
Tom: I've replayed the original on the original hardware, the Saturn.
Tom: It is not a good game.
Phil: I think the original Tomb Raiders have to be high on the list.
Phil: Maybe not but at least top
Tom: Shenmue.
Phil: I would presume that's low on the list as well.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: Number
Tom: I would not put Shenmue in the top games.
Tom: Yakuza is what really broke out that.
Phil: Is there a Yakuza in the top ?
Phil: I bet there isn't.
Tom: I bet there isn't because that was released on the PlayStation
Tom: And no, in fact, it is not on the list.
Phil: But isn't the PlayStation ?
Tom: No, PlayStation games are on this list.
Tom: Okay, another random game from the top
Tom: Super Mario World for the NES.
Phil: So maybe that's why Gran Turismo is not on the list.
Tom: I think so also.
Tom: So what did I say?
Tom: This is funny.
Tom: They've gotten Shenmue at number
Tom: That's embarrassing.
Tom: Next game, Super Mario World for the NES.
Tom: Super Mario World in the top
Phil: You already know that's going to be probably top
Tom: Yeah, number
Tom: Pac-Man Arcade.
Phil: I think it probably should be high, but I think maybe the bottom it'll be to
Tom: Yeah, I think Pac-Man should definitely be in the top
Tom: They put it at number
Phil: Okay.
Phil: I was wrong about that one.
Tom: Space Invaders on that theme.
Phil: Space Invaders, I think again, that should be in the top but I don't know if they'll put it in it.
Tom: Yeah, me too.
Tom: Top for me.
Tom: Yeah, they put it at number
Tom: A game that I personally don't think should be in the top
Tom: Sonic the Hedgehog for the Genesis.
Phil: I think that will be between to
Tom: Number
Tom: Where would you personally put it?
Phil: The Sega Genesis one.
Tom: Yeah, again, let's just talk about where you would put it, not where you think it is as a commentator.
Phil: I think from what I've played of D Sonics, and I haven't played a huge amount of them, I think the D ones are better, which I think says it all.
Tom: Oh, for sure.
Tom: Half Life, the original.
Phil: The original.
Phil: That's a hard one to predict.
Phil: I'm going to say that that makes it into the top
Tom: Me personally, it wouldn't make the top
Tom: It came in at
Tom: Super Mario Kart for the SNES.
Phil: I think top not top
Tom: Yeah, definitely.
Tom: Came in at
Tom: Wouldn't make my personal top
Tom: Metal Gear Solid came in at
Tom: Super Mario
Phil: I think that should be top
Tom: Came in at number which I think is criminally overrated.
Tom: I'm going to throw you an easy one.
Tom: Zelda Link to the Past.
Phil: That will be top surely.
Tom: Number
Tom: Golden Eye
Phil: I think top
Tom: Top came in at
Tom: I don't think it's in the top
Tom: The original outrun for Arcade by Sega.
Phil: There's no way that's going to be top
Phil: That's got to be in the top somewhere.
Tom: Yeah,
Tom: Now, now we're down to the last five games, right?
Tom: Where you've got to guess where they land.
Tom: Street Fighter the World Warrior for Arcade.
Phil: I think between to
Tom: It shouldn't be in the top
Tom: They gave it number
Phil: Number
Tom: Yes!
Phil: Top
Tom:
Tom: I'm going to give you a hand here.
Tom: The remaining numbers available are and
Tom: Ocarina.
Tom: Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time for the N
Phil:
Tom:
Tom: ok.
Tom: You are now down to and
Tom: Doom.
Phil: I'm going to say again.
Phil: ok.
Phil: At least it was almost
Tom: You are now down to and
Tom: Now, the name of this game is Elite.
Tom: And it is a proto PC game from the UK that I've never heard of.
Tom: It's on a Speccy or, you know, an Amstrad or some bullshit.
Phil: Surely you've heard of Elite.
Tom: Well, I've heard of Washington Elites and Meteor Elites, but you've heard of Elite?
Phil: Yep, I've heard of Elite.
Phil: It's like a space sim sort of thing, isn't it?
Tom: Who knows, man.
Tom: So you've got number or number
Tom: Obviously, it's not going to be number
Phil: Well, I've heard a lot of people say it is the greatest game ever made.
Tom: Really?
Phil: Yep.
Tom: And you personally, have you ever played it?
Phil: Is Retro Gamer English at all?
Tom: It is a space thing.
Tom: And yes, Retro Gamer is very English.
Phil: Okay.
Phil: It's number
Tom: Number
Tom: Which leaves you...
Phil: I'm very disappointed in them.
Tom: And I'm proud of myself, how I've set all this up.
Tom: This leaves you having to guess what the number game is of all time, as a retro game, that we have not yet mentioned.
Tom: What do you think took number ?
Tom: Of course.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: So again, we'll just read them now.
Tom: Number through
Tom: Number Super Mario World.
Tom: Number Shenmue.
Tom: Number Super Mario Brothers.
Tom: Number Elite.
Tom: Number Pac-Man.
Tom: Number Ocarina Zelda.
Tom: Zelda Ocarina of Time.
Tom: Number Street Fighter The World Warrior for the Arcade.
Tom: Number Super Mario
Tom: Number Doom.
Tom: Number Tetris.
Tom: So Mario games in the top
Tom: Nintendo games.
Phil: Isn't there only Mario games?
Phil: Oh yeah, no,
Tom: Yeah, Nintendo games in the top
Phil: I think that's way too many Mario games in the top
Tom: Definitely.
Tom: Sega game in the top
Tom: Namco game in the top Pac-Man.
Tom: American games, I guess you could go Street Fighter Doom, and that's it.
Tom: So American games.
Tom: In terms of PC games, you've basically got Doom and Elite.
Tom: So yeah, anyway, I thought that was a fun exercise and hopefully our listeners thought the same.
Phil: Now, if there are no PSgames on the list, why is GTA there?
Phil: And Vice City?
Tom: Oh, Silent Hill is also on the list.
Phil: Is the original Silent Hill on it?
Tom: No, Silent Hill came out in...
Phil: They've got Silent Hill but not Silent Hill.
Phil: That's how you know.
Tom: No, Silent Hill in fairness, was a better game.
Tom: Anyway, Silent Hill came in at
Tom: GTA Vice City came in at
Tom: And yeah, very, very...
Tom: I don't see any other PlayStation games on the list.
Tom: And before we go on to listener emails, I should probably ask you, what is your number one retro game of all time?
Tom: This game's released before whatever that means.
Tom: What would your number one be?
Phil: I think...
Phil: First of all, I just have to say, I've done the maths on when consoles came out here.
Tom: Research.
Phil: And I retract my positive statements on being the arbitrary year.
Phil: I suppose maybe they did that so that they could include some PSera games that came out after the was released, but the was released in
Tom: This is weird.
Tom: That's weird.
Tom: Look, I can't remember the exact frame of the story, but it was basically like the first time retro gaming was used as a term.
Tom: So when I was growing up, not when I was growing up, but when I was in my s, the NES was a retro game system, and the Atari was archaic.
Tom: And then I guess the question would be, when was the first time that people referred to retro games and you felt like, hang on, no, that's not a retro game.
Phil: So maybe it's based on when the term came to prevalence.
Tom: Yeah, I think so.
Tom: When people first started saying, oh, well, that's a retro game.
Tom: Who knows?
Tom: But in any case, what would you put as your number one best retro game release prior to ?
Phil: I don't know if I could pick a single one, but two that immediately come to mind according to this list's logic, though I probably wouldn't call either of them retro games.
Phil: I think in terms of gameplay, they're very much as modern as any other game, which is another question you have to ask about the framing.
Phil: Do they mean games that are old or games that are retro because they play in a totally different way to modern games?
Tom: Games that are old.
Tom: But it's all about their release date.
Phil: Okay, well, I think two that immediately spring to mind are definitely ICO and Metroid Prime.
Tom: Really?
Phil: Yeah, and also Doom.
Tom: The original PC game.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: But you know what else was released before I think?
Tom: Your mom.
Phil: Let me just confirm.
Phil: Can we include games from ?
Tom: Yes.
Tom: It's going to be before
Tom: Basically, if it was released up to December st,
Phil: Okay.
Phil: Because I was going to say Stalker, but that was released in
Tom: I mean, I look at this game, this list, and I look at Pac-Man, I look at Space Invaders, I look at Doom, I look at Tetris.
Tom: And, you know, to me, it's about play as something that anyone can grasp.
Tom: The whole concept of play, right?
Tom: So you think about, you know, what people were doing with a stick and a ball, you know, a thousand, two thousand years ago.
Tom: What is something that is successful that people pick it up, and they're doing it not because it's going to advance their money in life, it's not going to advance their resources, it's just something that they enjoy.
Tom: And I think that if you look at something like Tetris, if you look at Pac-Man, if you look at Space Invaders, if you look at Pong, you know, these are games that people could just pick up and can play.
Tom: Okay, so I'd immediately wipe out anything that uses dual stick, like Halo.
Tom: Even though I know that it was a mainstream breakthrough, and people that never touched video games other than Madden were now playing Halo and enjoying first person shooters because of the visceral pleasure of killing other things.
Tom: I think Doom, in terms of accessibility, required a mouse and keyboard at the time and was probably closed off.
Tom: I think Super Mario because of its proto D environment, cut people out.
Tom: Same thing for Ocarina.
Tom: I think any of the D Mario games would fit in that mold because basically you're just moving left and jumping.
Tom: I think that would fit into the top
Tom: Something like Half-Life, way too complex.
Tom: I'm just going back to the intellectual concept of play, and that would eliminate Doom, unfortunately.
Tom: It would really come down to me to Tetris, Pac-Man and Space Invaders.
Tom: Out of the top that these clowns put together.
Tom: And out of those, it's really hard.
Tom: I couldn't pick between Pac-Man, Space Invaders and Tetris as an accessible thing that absolutely any human on this planet could pick up and play and immediately understand and enjoy.
Phil: I think there's two ways to interpret your statement here.
Phil: One is you're not really describing retro.
Phil: You're describing what is the purest or simply.
Tom: No, I'm describing the classic.
Phil: You're saying what is the purest game?
Phil: It's your composing list of the purest games.
Tom: Oh, well, purest games.
Tom: I mean, then that opens it up wide.
Tom: You've got Doom, you've got R-Type, you've got all sorts of things.
Tom: I'm talking about the classical.
Tom: If the Greeks were here now and we're all talking about what is play and what is something that absolutely everyone could enjoy, out of those three, we'd probably fall down to Tetris because Pac-Man and Space Invaders is confrontational.
Phil: So you're composing a Greek list of video games.
Tom: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Phil: As opposed to retro.
Tom: Yeah, I'm saying years from now, if you had to pick one of these games, I'm going to say that Tetris is it because Pac-Man and Space Invaders are the only ones that are simple enough.
Tom: You've got Pong, Tetris, Pac-Man and Space Invaders.
Tom: And I'm just saying that because I'm old.
Tom: I'm just saying...
Phil: I think based on your description, I think Pong should be the winner.
Tom: Yeah, I agree.
Tom: Because it's interactive with another human.
Phil: It's got two inputs.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: That's it.
Tom: That's it.
Tom: Yep.
Tom: And Pac-Man and Space Invaders are eliminated because you've got time.
Phil: Pac-Man has four inputs.
Tom: And an enemy.
Phil: Space Invaders has three.
Tom: Yep.
Tom: And Tetris...
Phil: Can we find a game with one input?
Tom: Let's go.
Tom: Not released before
Tom: Yep.
Phil: So, what we're saying is Cow Clicker.
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: It's the greatest game of all time.
Tom: Of all time.
Tom: You could put it in front, yeah, honestly though, if you put Pong and Cow Clicker in front of a chimp, he's gonna be able to play Cow Clicker, but he's not gonna be able to play chimp.
Phil: I think you could get a chimp playing Pong.
Tom: Well, depends how much depressants you give him.
Tom: So, but this is not the podcast for that.
Tom: Yeah, okay, so I'm gonna go, the Greeks would pick Pong as the number one retro video game of all time released before
Tom: So with that-
Phil: I question the use of the word retro, but we didn't have that for too long.
Phil: Another way of interpreting answer is in terms of analyzing how old you are.
Phil: Maybe some of those games are too recent in your mind to be considered retro.
Phil: And you just invented this whole Greek story to cover that up.
Tom: No, no, no, you know, I'm doing the intellectual thing, man.
Tom: If it were me, I'd probably put Doom as number one.
Tom: Like just, you know, like as a game that changed everything for video games and a game that I personally got so into in terms of games.
Phil: We're going to give it to Doom, then, because Doom was one of the ones I considered as a potential number one.
Phil: You mentioned it as well.
Phil: I think we've got to go with Doom as the greatest retro game of all time.
Phil: And Pong as the greatest Greek game of all time.
Tom: Ah, other than the other thing they invented.
Tom: So, Cow Click is the biggest, the best chimpanzee game of all time.
Tom: But, you know, maybe that's something for the next episode.
Tom: But okay, so Doom is the number one retro game video for The Game Under Podcast, the straightest on the strategy the game has had.
Tom: Okay, so now it's time for Phil's questions for Tom from other people's podcasts.
Tom: We've got two this week.
Tom: Nick from Derbyshire writes, it's the UK, was the release of Final Fantasy project as three games a mistake?
Tom: The second sold far less than the first, and the third is likely to sell even less.
Tom: So why you think about that, was the release of Final Fantasy remake as three games a mistake?
Tom: My, what I've heard is basically people who haven't yet finished the first Final Fantasy remake game, haven't bought the second one, because of course digitally now, you don't have to worry about it not being on the shelves.
Tom: They haven't bought the second one because like, why haven't you finished the first one yet?
Tom: Why would I play the second one?
Tom: And people who haven't played the first one at all go, oh, I don't want to come in at game number two.
Tom: I've got to play the first one first, which sets them up for absolute doom when they release the third one next year.
Tom: I think it's, yeah, anyway, what is your opinion?
Tom: Was it, was the release a final?
Phil: I think didn't the original one, the part one of the series, sell massively?
Tom: Oh, massively.
Phil: I think if they release it as one game, it may not have sold any more than the first episode did.
Phil: Even if episode two and three are selling progressively less and less, their extra sales, they may not have got.
Tom: Exactly.
Phil: Yeah.
Tom: I think you're right.
Tom: You're spot on there.
Tom: I think you're absolutely spot on.
Tom: And the fact that they couldn't release all three of them, because if they did wait until they'd finished all three of them, the game still wouldn't be released because they haven't finished the third part of it.
Phil: Yep.
Tom: Yep.
Phil: And I think that they release it at the right moment.
Phil: Because there was a lot of hype around it then, and in the lead up to it as well, before it even became a thing.
Phil: I don't know if after several more boy band Final Fantasies, there would have necessarily been as much hype as there was back then.
Tom: Yeah, you're right.
Tom: Yep.
Tom: Tom Towers for the win.
Tom: The final question before we close out the show, Lucas from Sao Paulo.
Tom: So I think it's pronounced Sao Paulo.
Tom: Sao Paulo?
Tom: Sao Paulo.
Tom: In Brazil, right?
Tom: Is Shenmue Sega's -?
Phil: What does that mean?
Tom: What does that mean?
Phil: Well, did Sega go on to start a series of wars?
Tom: And police state surveillance?
Phil: They didn't start the police state surveillance then?
Tom: No, they mean it in a classical sense, or simplistic sense.
Phil: Are we getting another classical Greek?
Phil: How the Greeks define -?
Tom: We record long enough, this whole thing is going to go about Greek philosophy now.
Tom: So basically, Shenmue what killed Sega?
Tom: Is Shenmue Sega's -?
Phil: I don't think this really makes any sense as an analogy.
Tom: Okay, then I'll change the question.
Tom: Lucas from Sao Paulo, Brazil writes, is Shenmue what led to the demise of Sega ultimately not making hardware anymore and totally killed them off and made them a third party publisher that ultimately only releases total war and Yakuza games?
Phil: I don't think so.
Tom: What do you think?
Phil: You forgot the gambling machines.
Phil: Isn't that the real economic base?
Tom: That's only because we're Sammy Games came in and bought them out.
Tom: Okay, but seriously, what do you think led to Sega's downfall as a hardware manufacturer?
Phil: I think releasing the Dreamcast so early.
Tom: I think Sony is Sega's
Tom: I think the PlayStation was so hot.
Tom: I was there when I bought my Dreamcast in
Tom: It was absolutely brilliant with the best graphics you could ever play on a home console.
Tom: And the second it released, Sony just rang the bell and said, Hey guys, PlayStation is coming.
Tom: PlayStation is coming.
Tom: They'll be back and compatible with PlayStation
Tom: And that's what killed off the Dreamcast.
Phil: I think that's a similar train of thought to mine though.
Tom: Yeah, go ahead.
Phil: Because I think if they had released more in line with the GameCube and the PSthey could have possibly come up with a console that was more in line with them and more competitive with them.
Phil: Because the Dreamcast graphically is sort of halfway between those two consoles.
Phil: Two console eras, sorry.
Tom: Yeah, I don't know.
Tom: I think the Dreamcast launch games look far better than the PlayStation launch games.
Tom: Yeah, I don't know.
Tom: I don't think Shenmue is saying that.
Phil: I think they look better, but if you look at what Dreamcast games' graphics are, they're usually significantly more simple than PSgames.
Tom: They were using the Naomi arcade board.
Phil: So they're a lot cleaner and they look better in that sense, but they're probably using a lot less processing power.
Tom: And the Dreamcast lends itself to games that I like best, which is arcade length and arcade ease of use type games, whereas the PlayStation
Phil: And that's the other thing that time may have made a difference to, because a lot of developers were not moving in the direction of the next generation until the PSand games.
Tom: Until Sony said, this is now the next generation has begun.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: So the more advanced games on the Dreamcast were, as you were saying, in the vein of arcade games.
Tom: Yep.
Tom: And I don't think Shenmue killed.
Tom: I don't think Shenmue killed the Dreamcast.
Tom: It certainly cost a lot of money, but back at the time we talked about it and I said, well, this is just a money laundering thing.
Tom: Like the Yakuza in my mind had its hooks pretty clearly into Sega.
Tom: And basically the ridiculous development money that went into Sega was not spent on the game.
Tom: It was just a money laundering exercise for the Yakuza.
Tom: And I'm not talking about the video game.
Tom: I'm talking about the actual Japanese crime establishment.
Phil: So Lucas, maybe Shenmue saved the Dreamcast.
Tom: Oh, by using the money laundering.
Tom: Well, I don't think, let's just say this.
Tom: Let's just say this.
Tom: Without Shenmue, there's no Yakuza.
Tom: And without Yakuza, I'm not sure where Sega would currently be because they're resting very squarely on those laurels.
Phil: So I think the conclusion we're taking from this is that Shenmue was Sega's moment because it consolidated their power in a new way.
Tom: Exactly.
Tom: Thanks for listening to The Game Under Podcast.
Tom: We've been doing this since
Tom: So there's a lot of resources covering games from that time to now at our website, gameunder.net.
Tom: That's gameunder.net.
Tom: If you'd like to submit a question, use our comment section from our homepage.
Tom: Just on this episode, there's a comment section.
Tom: You don't have to register or anything like that.
Tom: Just post up your questions and we'll answer them.
Tom: Thanks again for listening to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Tom: I'm Phil Fogg.
Tom: I'm Tom Towers.