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Introduction
0:00:09 Season 9 Begins
0:00:42 Podcast Talk
0:05:59 How This Show Works
Feature - Phil Upgrades His PC
0:06:32 Thanks to Tom
0:09:15 Can't Buy a New Console - Nintendo's Record Sales
0:10:09 Pokemon Funded Upgrade
First Impressions - Tom
0:11:47 Cyberpunk 2077 (PC)
0:12:36 CD Projekt Red Victim of Ransomware
0:16:00 Witcher 3 vs. Cyberpunk Release
0:23:00 Japan!
0:31:55 CD Projekt Red & Storytelling
0:34:17 Gender Studies
0:37:17 What Could They Have Done Differently?
0:43:07 Is it Good?
Final Thoughts - Tom and Phil
0:58:15 Space Court (PC)
First Impression - Tom
1:10:10 The Medium (Xbox Series, PC)
Trademark Banter
1:21:15 Tom Read 425 Books Last Year. This was his favourite.
1:27:45 Sky Children of Light Controversy
Final Thoughts - Tom and Phil
1:32:55 Coffee Talk (Windows, Mac, Switch ,PS4, XB1)
First Impression - Tom and Phil
1:52:45 Mind Scanners Beta
Trademark Banter
2:00:39 Tom Drinks Mountain Dew for the First Time
Transcript
Phil: Hello and welcome to episode 133 of The Game Under Podcast.
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Phil: I'm your host Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by Mr.
00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:17.420
Phil: Tom Towers.
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Phil: Tom, welcome to the show.
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Tom: Thank you, Phil.
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Phil: First time listeners should probably know why, why listen to this show?
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Phil: Because it's the most engaging discussion of interesting video games on the Internet.
00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:33.600
Phil: We're the longest running podcast in Australia.
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Tom: Probably of any type of podcast.
00:00:37.220 --> 00:00:42.340
Phil: I think we started recording podcasts in 1995, we're up to episode 133.
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Tom: On the topic of Australian podcasts, I do wonder if the two of us recording a podcast is potentially a good idea or not, because the few times I listen to podcasts outside of two podcasts that I follow, I am routinely horrified and disappointed.
00:01:07.580 --> 00:01:13.240
Phil: Well, that's because the only podcast you listen to are Alex Jones and something I can't come up with.
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Tom: I'm sure Alex Jones' podcasts will be incredible based on his old content.
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Tom: I stopped being interested in Alex Jones when he pivoted away from a general sort of existential dread to a massive focus on removing Muslims from the face of the earth for a period of time.
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Tom: I don't know if he's still on that or not, but that's when I stopped following Alex Jones.
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Phil: I think since he's been deplatformed, it's more about the ads than anything else.
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Tom: I think it always was actually, from the very beginning, there was a lot of advertising going on, but I recommend anyone who is interested, I'm pretty sure it's on YouTube, look up Alex Jones and Noam Chomsky, because they had an interview.
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Phil: No, they didn't.
00:02:06.160 --> 00:02:06.940
Tom: Yes, they did.
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Tom: And it is as incredible as you would imagine it to be.
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Phil: I love when famous people get trawled because they just go onto a show thinking, oh, well, it's a show.
00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:32.280
Phil: I won't bother to research who the host is and his theories about how we're turning the frogs gay and people can give birth to cows and things like that.
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Phil: I'll just go on the show.
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Tom: Well, Noam Chomsky and Alex Jones are both in the same wheelhouse.
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Tom: So I think that's not that strange of a combination, particularly earlier on in Alex Jones' career.
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Tom: And I think Ali G also interviewed Noam Chomsky, I believe.
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Phil: Oh, excellent.
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Phil: Okay, all right.
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Phil: So I'm sorry to throw you off course there, but you were saying...
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Tom: Yes, I think we've mentioned the infamous Joe Rogan experience on the show before.
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Tom: The most popular and successful podcast ever, arguably even more successful than The Game Under Podcast.
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Tom: And maybe this is professional jealousy, but I have watched a few episodes of that and I fail utterly to see the appeal.
00:03:23.220 --> 00:03:40.280
Tom: And though I have never seen the word pretentious applied to really podcast in general, except perhaps The Game Under Podcast, that is the word that comes to mind when I think of the majority of mainstream popular podcasts.
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Tom: An Australian one is Trash Taste, which basically features a bunch of Australians immersed in Japanese art, who have the most bland and generic personalities, the most milquetoast takes on everything you can imagine.
00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:14.320
Tom: And when they manage to get even an interesting guest on the show, they bombard them with vanilla sauce, to put it another way, for want of a better word.
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Tom: And it is just horrific.
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Tom: And the contrast to that, that I probably wouldn't describe as pretentious, but the contrast to that is things like Joe Rogan, where you have someone who believes that you can find the meaning of life in MMA, and that he has had the most profound experiences on drugs and meditation and all of this sort of bullshit.
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Tom: Yet, when has he ever said a single profound thing on any of those subjects?
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Tom: As someone who has watched several episodes, I'm obviously an expert, so I would have noticed it.
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Phil: Well, he's on Spotify and we're on Spotify as well.
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Phil: We cut a deal with Spotify.
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Tom: We got on Spotify before he did.
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Tom: Before he did.
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Tom: We broke the ground that he now walks.
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Phil: We're the trailblazers.
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Phil: And I think the thing with Joe Rogan that's most fascinating is listening to him interview people like Henry Kissinger, Hillary Clinton, famous comedians, and see how soon he gets to him.
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Tom: Hillary Clinton, an incredible comedian.
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Tom: People say, women famously, what's the English Trotskyist troll who supported the Iraq War called again?
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Tom: Christopher Hitchens.
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Phil: Oh, I thought you were going to say Madeleine Albright.
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Tom: I don't think she's English.
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Phil: No, no, no, she's not English.
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Tom: Can you believe that Madeleine Albright wrote a book warning America about the rise of fascism?
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Tom: Yeah, yeah, given her background, I mean, I mean, she, I assumed it would be a manual, but apparently it is a cautionary tale.
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Phil: Well, she, we don't need to get into Madeleine Albright here.
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Phil: This is a video game podcast.
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Phil: So new time listeners are listening to us because you used to be a journalist and my credentials are I used to be a friend.
00:06:09.080 --> 00:06:12.260
Phil: So that's how this show works, basically.
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Tom: That was until I discovered a few secrets about my co-host during my journalistic work and we're now no longer friends.
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Phil: Well, no, but we have to keep doing the podcast because, you know, longest running game podcast in Australia.
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Phil: Come on, who's going to give up that?
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Phil: And the lucrative advertising money.
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Phil: Now I want to thank you because first of all, I want to thank you because you've been turning me on to some very good PC games lately that we'll be talking about in this episode.
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Phil: But I also want to thank you because in our last episode, you talked about VR.
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Phil: And that started me down the road of upgrading my PC under your direct guidance.
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Phil: And while it was a rough and bumpy road as all PC builds are, and I was at a certain point where it's like, you know what, I'm just going to have to take everything out, put everything back in and forget about it and sell the parts that I bought on eBay.
00:07:13.580 --> 00:07:23.720
Phil: I got to the end of it and it's been ritually rewarding having a worthy PC gaming rig again.
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Phil: And basically what I can describe it as, I upgraded the CPU, not to get into details, and I upgraded my video card into something else I upgraded.
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Tom: The RAM, I believe.
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Phil: The RAM, yep.
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Phil: There was something else, but the video card upgrade was basically, and tell me if I'm wrong, it was like the best upgrade you could get without getting into the ray tracing tier of video game card.
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Phil: Is that right?
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Tom: Well, an alternative purchase in your price range, which would have been about $50 to $100 more depending on what price you were able to get, that would have been an RTX 2060, which would be the slowest technically ray tracing cable card you could get.
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Phil: Right.
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Tom: But if you go for the card you got, a 5600 XT, then you do get a substantial improvement in the frame rate.
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Tom: And if you are getting an RTX 2060, you will be having difficulty using ray tracing most games anyway.
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Phil: Yeah, and that's what I thought.
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Phil: I would get the best of a category rather than getting the lowest of the next category up.
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Tom: That's right.
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Tom: And also because you only upgraded the CPU without the motherboard, and the motherboard is a very old one, you probably, it would be a waste of money getting anything faster than the 5600 XT.
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Phil: Yeah, and if you are going to upgrade the CPU, the motherboard and the video card, then you may as well not go ahead with an upgrade, just get a whole new PC.
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Phil: And start from scratch.
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Phil: So, this one will get me through probably another three years.
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Phil: It's certainly good enough to run a VR rig at this point.
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Phil: And so, first of all, A, I want to thank you for the games you've been sending my way in terms of bringing to my attention, and B, the PC upgrade scratched that itch that I couldn't get because I can't buy a PlayStation or an Xbox in Australia, in terms of the new consoles.
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Tom: I don't think you can buy them anywhere.
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Phil: You can't.
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Phil: Nintendo announced this week that they've sold 80 million switches.
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Phil: And meanwhile, Sony and Microsoft can't produce enough because of the semiconductor shortage.
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Phil: They can't produce enough product to sell, which is only pushing Nintendo sales up even higher because you go into a game shop, you want to buy the newest and greatest.
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Phil: Oh, you don't have PlayStation, you don't have Xbox.
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Phil: What's the switch?
00:09:54.660 --> 00:09:57.220
Phil: And then they get the switch, so yeah.
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Phil: So thank you because with the PC, it's re-engaged me with PC gaming.
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Phil: And at this point, and I know people are going to think, oh, I'm only saying PC is superior to console right now because I've made this investment.
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Phil: This was a tiny, infinitesimal investment.
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Phil: This was like nothing.
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Phil: I sold two Pokemon GBA games while I was doing the build and I had hundreds of dollars left over from that to fund this upgrade.
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Tom: From the fact that you had hundreds of dollars left over from selling two Pokemon GBA games, I think that should probably suggest to the listener that they were not just any Pokemon GBA games that you sold.
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Phil: Yeah, that's true.
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Phil: I did only sell two of them.
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Phil: And they were not sealed in box, but they were a new in box.
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Phil: The box still had the cellophane, all the materials that came in the box.
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Phil: And yeah, I mean, I've played through and beat those games.
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Phil: With my eyesight, the way it is as we all age, I'm not going back to play a GBA game anytime soon.
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Phil: It's hard enough playing on a Switch, well, if for some games, which we'll get into later.
00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:18.540
Phil: But yeah, I mean, like, I am so reinvigorated back into the PC.
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Phil: Given the downloads and the updates and all the troubles that I'm having with the modern consoles, I'm just really happy to be Switch PC right now, and not really eager to jump back in to PlayStation 5 or Xbox Series X.
00:11:34.940 --> 00:11:36.620
Phil: So yeah, so thank you.
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Phil: And as a result, we're gonna have quite a few games to talk about together today.
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Phil: One game I didn't jump into, that I'm not even, should I, or could I be able to play Cyber Punk 2077 on my current rig?
00:11:51.160 --> 00:12:00.260
Tom: The point of difficulty might be the CPU, but you should certainly be able to start it and give it a try.
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Tom: The video card is well in the range of being able to play it.
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Phil: And I'm just gonna reiterate, in case people didn't pick up earlier, it's a 5600 XT is what Tom selected for my video card.
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Phil: I would have been lost without him.
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Phil: But the question is, should anyone play Cyber Punk 2077, given all the reports about the bugs and the glitches, and ultimately even setting that aside, not having very good game play?
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Tom: And they have on top of that, breaking news from yesterday.
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Tom: They have been hacked by ransomware hackers, and all of their programming infrastructure is currently being held hostage.
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Phil: Yeah, all their source code, all their HR documents, all their legal documents.
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Phil: But what I missed in the story is what they're actually, what is the ransom that they're demanding?
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Tom: Well, they released the ransom note, and I don't think the ransom note actually mentioned how much money or whatever else they were demanding.
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Tom: So maybe they're waiting for CD Projekt Red to make them an offer.
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Phil: There was one, I'm just gonna look it up because it was one part of the ransom note that I particularly liked.
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Phil: Yeah, I mean, this happens every day to a whole bunch of other businesses.
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Phil: But this one is unusual because usually it's kept private.
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Phil: And also the ransom note isn't just a generic ransom note.
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Phil: They're calling out the fact that they're gonna sell the source code and all this sort of thing.
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Tom: Given that we're both fans of Alex Jones and CD Projekt.
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Tom: Yeah, massive fans of Alex Jones.
00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:57.740
Tom: He is our number one source of political news.
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Tom: I mean, people may wonder why we were briefly on hiatus.
00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:12.240
Tom: One of us may or may not have returned to America to carry out a little political activism.
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:14.460
Tom: But I won't go into details.
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.300
Phil: Look man, I was wearing a mask.
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Phil: Nothing can be proved.
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Tom: Yeah, in the mode of Alex Jones, CD Projekt Red were the absolute masters of PR campaigns.
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Tom: When Witcher 3 was released, it was a buggy and to quite a large degree, a broken mess, including in terms of gameplay in many people's minds, to the point where they totally redid the movement and control system, massively altering how combat functioned, and a variety of things like that.
00:14:53.020 --> 00:15:05.840
Tom: And because they promised that they were gonna fix all this and had a really good PR team, the gaming community just ate it up and loved it.
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Tom: The CD, the Cyber Punk 2077 release has been the absolute opposite of that.
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Tom: And they have handled everything in the worst manner possible.
00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:31.720
Tom: Could this be a final Hail Mary in their failed PR campaign to restore their reputation after their promises to fix Cyber Punk 2077 have obviously failed?
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Phil: Oh, definitely.
00:15:32.800 --> 00:15:39.400
Phil: I mean, they've taken this ransom and said, okay, how can we maximize the impact, which is why they released it.
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Phil: I'm saying, did they potentially hack themselves?
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:49.480
Phil: I don't think that they hacked themselves.
00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:52.940
Phil: I think they're just opportunistic and taking advantage of it.
00:15:53.260 --> 00:15:59.920
Phil: Now, having said that, Capcom, same thing happened to them in December of last year.
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Phil: I mean, this is very recent, so it'd be the exact same thing, but they didn't release the broken English note.
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:10.580
Phil: So the fact that they released it, I think they're just using this like COVID.
00:16:11.160 --> 00:16:36.500
Phil: Well, they're rather, they're using this as they should have used COVID to release Cyber Punk 2077 only as a PC game and then roll it out to the consoles slowly, because had it been released as a PC game, from all reports, if a PC is capable of running it and people who played it on Google Stadia, it worked well.
00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:51.320
Tom: Well, we should add there, because a lot of people who defend the game have responded to criticism of the optimization by claiming that people are trying to run it on obsolete hardware and hardware that isn't powerful enough to run it properly.
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Tom: But when you look at the system requirements, due to the poor optimization, people with hardware far and above what is actually asked of them have run into difficulties running the game as well.
00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:11.880
Tom: So it is certainly very poorly optimized as a game.
00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:31.020
Tom: That being said, my own experience with Cyber Punk 2077, outside of some at times very frustrating glitches and a lack of hilarious glitches has technically been not too bad at all.
00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:43.900
Tom: There are certain areas within the city where there are totally inexplicable frame rate drops from 50 to 60 FPS to 20 that occur.
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:55.940
Tom: I can only assume it's when they are spawning NPCs off screen to walk into the scene that you can't see or something like that.
00:17:56.820 --> 00:18:04.380
Tom: But beyond that, it has actually run pretty well when you consider how technically advanced it is.
00:18:04.580 --> 00:18:13.740
Tom: And it is probably the best use of ray tracing since Metro Exodus, I would say.
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Tom: The difference in the visuals between having ray tracing on and off, it totally changes the atmosphere of the game because it is this really oversaturated, colourful, 80s-inspired look.
00:18:32.260 --> 00:18:52.340
Tom: And when you have the ray tracing off without the more detailed, shiny lights and the more realistic reflections, you end up with something that looks really, it still looks really good, but it looks really cartoony and a little bit flat as well.
00:18:52.360 --> 00:19:06.840
Tom: Whereas if you have the ray tracing on, it really nails the 80s aesthetic that they're going for without it becoming a cartoony and flat, which it was at risk of.
00:19:07.260 --> 00:19:34.860
Tom: And a lot of games that do a vibrant colour scheme in the past, for instance, Uncharted 4 and 3, scenes in both of those games, when you are in the most colourful areas, because the lighting is kind of crap, and there's no reflections adding two different gradients to the colour, it all ends up being really flat and a little bit bland.
00:19:35.120 --> 00:19:43.440
Tom: The colour palette in 2077 is on another level to Naughty Dog's art direction, so even when it is flat, it still looks really good.
00:19:43.940 --> 00:19:56.980
Tom: But without the ray tracing, it is a massive downgrade, and arguably affects the atmosphere to a greater level than even in Metro Exodus.
00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:14.780
Tom: Because in Metro Exodus, the effect that it has to a degree where it totally changes the feeling of the game isn't throughout the entirety of the game, it's through certain sections, whereas in Cyber Punk 2077, the entirety of the game is affected by this.
00:20:15.320 --> 00:20:17.700
Phil: Were you a fan of Witcher 3?
00:20:19.340 --> 00:20:31.160
Tom: Yes, I was, but not for the same reasons or to the same degree as most fans of The Witcher 3.
00:20:31.300 --> 00:20:34.260
Tom: I hated, absolutely hated the combat.
00:20:34.340 --> 00:20:43.320
Tom: I thought it was just atrocious and boring, which you're apparently not meant to use when criticizing a game.
00:20:43.340 --> 00:20:48.940
Tom: But I did write a several thousand word review of it, so you can go there if you want any details.
00:20:49.560 --> 00:21:03.580
Tom: The thing I loved about The Witcher 3 was the setting, the characters and some elements of the storytelling put it on another level to most fantasy, not just in games.
00:21:04.300 --> 00:21:20.120
Tom: You take, for example, some of the earlier quests, where they really made use of European folklore, integrating it into the quests in a way that you don't see in most fantasy.
00:21:20.740 --> 00:21:39.940
Tom: Even though fantasy will make references to those sorts of things, they're usually not really written into the story, and you just end up with something that is an atrocious copy of Lord of the Rings, which again, Lord of the Rings is very much written from its inspirations.
00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:46.620
Tom: And Cyber Punk 2077, I think, is a disappointment there.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:22:03.000
Tom: Now, obviously, they're not drawing on folklore here, but on the genre of cyberpunk, which is, I do have to say, 99% of cyberpunk, including Neuromancy, is complete and utter shit.
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:18.340
Tom: It is essentially fan fiction of beat novels with a modern technological aesthetic, because a lot of beat writing is very much technological driven.
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:43.100
Tom: So first of all, you don't want to be writing beat fan fiction, because there's two good beat writers, one of whom was a poet, who himself was basically, to some degree, William Blake fan fiction, and the other was one of the great geniuses of American literature and the modern novel full stop.
00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:47.360
Tom: And everything else in beat canon is shit.
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:55.500
Tom: So when you're copying shit that was only done well by a genius, the result is probably not going to be very good.
00:22:56.180 --> 00:22:58.380
Tom: And the result isn't very good for the most part.
00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:15.780
Tom: But the one interesting thing about Cyber Punk is the commentary on the era in which it was written and the themes that it contains, which have been reduced in our modern conception of Cyber Punk to an aesthetic.
00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:27.680
Tom: So, for example, in Cyber Punk, there's a real interest and obsession with Middle Eastern culture and Japanese culture.
00:23:27.820 --> 00:23:34.720
Tom: And the Middle Eastern part of it has been totally excised from modern Cyber Punk for obvious reasons.
00:23:35.820 --> 00:23:37.140
Tom: The Japanese remains.
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:55.140
Tom: But the reason that there was an obsession with Japan in the Cyber Punk is because at the time in America, there was a fear that Japan, with their booming economy, was gonna take over the world in the same way there's a fear of China doing so today.
00:23:55.420 --> 00:23:57.080
Phil: I was gonna say exactly that.
00:23:57.100 --> 00:23:58.320
Phil: And boom is the right word.
00:23:58.340 --> 00:24:12.380
Phil: I mean, the thought of Japan being influential to that extent or overpowering in that extent is a boomer mentality, right?
00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:14.960
Phil: It's something that was coming out of the 90s.
00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:17.120
Phil: Like, oh yeah, we gotta be concerned about Japan.
00:24:17.580 --> 00:24:21.760
Phil: And so when a movie like, god, Harrison Ford movie.
00:24:22.320 --> 00:24:25.080
Tom: Star Wars, Indiana Jones.
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:27.360
Tom: Has he been in any other films?
00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:29.060
Phil: Blade Runner.
00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:30.820
Tom: Let's not talk about that.
00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:42.400
Phil: So when you watch Blade Runner, for example, there's a lot of Japanese neon signs and Japanese influence, and that's obviously what Cyber Punk is tapping into as well.
00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:55.680
Tom: And just on that point, we should add that it's not just Cyber Punk today that it excises the themes of things, it's also the mainstream adaptions of Cyber Punk as well.
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:05.000
Tom: Case in point, Blade Runner, which totally obliterates the Christian themes in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.
00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:15.880
Phil: Yeah, and the other good thing about, I mean, in terms of Cyber Punk, it's people looking futurists, looking into the future going, okay, what's gonna win out?
00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:19.980
Phil: So it's a very boom mentality to include any Japanese influence in that.
00:25:20.020 --> 00:25:25.720
Phil: Like, oh yeah, obviously they were gonna win because they own Toyota and look at their manufacturing systems.
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:33.940
Phil: And the other one, which I think is right, or at least better, is the Middle East.
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:47.660
Phil: Because you look at something that would scare a boomer or a Western person of that age, and you go, well, obviously Islam is going to eventually overtake Christianity as a predominant religion.
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:54.660
Phil: And in our own regions, you look at Indonesia, for example, and you go, well, that's obviously the way it's gonna go.
00:25:54.680 --> 00:26:02.200
Tom: Yep, and religious, as we can see even in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:02.960
Tom: And Philip K.
00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:08.120
Tom: Dick in general, this being, that being a progenitor to Cyber Punk.
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:16.580
Tom: From the 70s to the 80s, there's a real existential dread in American fiction about religion.
00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:19.440
Tom: And in Philip K.
00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:27.900
Tom: Dick, that's through the lens of Christianity and also Eastern religions, not so much the Middle East.
00:26:28.080 --> 00:26:36.320
Tom: Whereas when you get to Cyber Punk, due to the geopolitical maneuverings at the time, that moves on to Islam.
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:42.720
Tom: But today, in Cyber Punk, that Islamic theme has disappeared.
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:43.820
Phil: Which is Australia.
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:58.500
Tom: Yep, except in post-Cyber Punk stuff like Snow Crash, and then it's more so in the context of anthropology and linguistics, as opposed to a religious and cultural thing.
00:26:58.780 --> 00:27:11.480
Tom: But what I'm getting at to eventually is, sadly, Cyber Punk 2077 does not live up to the credentials of Witcher 3, because none of that is in Cyber Punk 2077.
00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:18.220
Tom: The basic plot, sorry, the references to Japan are purely aesthetic.
00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:37.120
Tom: It's just merely that naturally, through the exchange of culture, Japanese influence has grown in America, and everything's hunky-dory, and no one really has a problem with that, nor is it necessarily something that is either exciting or dangerous.
00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:50.640
Tom: It just is, and it has no bearing on politics or economics or anything like that, or even culture really, because it's all basically just the adoption of Japanese aesthetics.
00:27:52.080 --> 00:28:11.020
Tom: Beyond that, maybe in some of the corporate culture, if it's involving Japanese things, Japanese people and companies, there will be some Japanese honor system going on and stuff like that, but it's really basic and just an aesthetic effect.
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:17.220
Tom: And that's true for basically all the Cyberpunk themes.
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:26.660
Tom: It's not even really a Cyberpunk story, because the plot is basically, it begins kind of like a heist story.
00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:28.480
Tom: I mean, it does begin as a heist story.
00:28:28.940 --> 00:28:40.220
Tom: And the main plot line, before it goes off in a slightly different direction, is basically a rags to riches story of someone.
00:28:40.580 --> 00:28:45.260
Tom: And you can choose three different origin stories, but they all basically amount to a rags to riches story.
00:28:45.840 --> 00:28:55.180
Tom: And the direction it goes in, there is corporate intrigue, as you would expect in a cyberpunk story, but without any real meaning.
00:28:55.180 --> 00:29:04.160
Tom: I mean, the city is supposedly massively corporate influence, but there are mayoral elections going on.
00:29:04.520 --> 00:29:18.040
Tom: There's a police force that they say is corporate, but jokes aside regarding the AI of the police, appears to be related to the government and a combination of the two.
00:29:18.260 --> 00:29:21.620
Tom: So maybe it's just got privatized things in it.
00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:34.680
Tom: And none of this is really either leverages commentary on either the world or the direction that society might be going beyond a basic run of the mill.
00:29:35.560 --> 00:29:37.660
Tom: Look at the corporatization of everything.
00:29:38.060 --> 00:29:42.560
Tom: Here's a dystopia in which actually every the city is pretty nice.
00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:48.240
Tom: There are a few homeless people here and there, but for the most part, it's a pretty cool place to be.
00:29:48.700 --> 00:29:56.620
Tom: And anyone through crime or corporatism or whatever else can fulfill a rags to riches story.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:21.900
Tom: As I said, the story does go in a more interesting direction and politics kind of is brought into it, but not really because the character played by Keanu Reeves, and if this is a commentary on the anodyne nature of the majority of punk, I have to give them credit for that.
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:23.100
Phil: What did you just say?
00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:55.620
Tom: I said, well, I have to finish this statement, but if Keanu Reeves' character is a commentary on the generally anodyne nature of punk, I do have to give CD Projekt Red credit for this because he is basically introduced as a maverick rockerboy, I think they're called, but basically an edgy, non-conforming rock star who is also a terrorist who is fighting against corporate power.
00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:11.380
Tom: But it's actually a revenge story, and he has a grudge, and he is basically just either on a revenge trip or a political nihilist in the misuse of the term as it is now used.
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:37.800
Tom: So again, that's avoiding any sort of political commentary because even when you've got this supposedly dystopic vision of the future that is corporatism run wild to an unacceptable degree, you don't have some sort of ideologically driven terrorist attack on it that may or may not have a reasonable position to take a la Final Fantasy VII.
00:31:38.020 --> 00:31:43.620
Tom: No, he just wants to take revenge against people who have fucked him over or likes chaos.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:54.660
Phil: We're talking about the 2020 release of Cyber Punk 2077, which is available on Stadia, PlayStation 4, 5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X and Windows.
00:31:56.140 --> 00:31:58.480
Phil: CD Projekt Red is a Polish company.
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:00.000
Phil: Yes, they are.
00:32:00.040 --> 00:32:05.440
Phil: They don't have strong English skills, as you can see from the Noclip documentary, which I will...
00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:08.160
Tom: I mean, you can tell from the ransomware note they wrote.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:09.320
Tom: And the English draw for it.
00:32:09.340 --> 00:32:11.380
Phil: That's right.
00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:13.920
Phil: Look, you know, since 2000...
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:16.080
Phil: CD Projekt Red, I mean, we all think they're cool.
00:32:16.100 --> 00:32:25.760
Phil: They started Good Old Games, which is, you know, basically intellectual property, free downloading of old games.
00:32:25.780 --> 00:32:29.300
Phil: And, you know, they make old games work through, you know, various engines.
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:35.820
Phil: And, you know, they have a good store if you want to play old games and own it.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:37.680
Tom: And new games as well.
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:39.140
Phil: And new games as well, obviously.
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:39.900
Phil: Yes, I'm sorry.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:50.120
Tom: If you can get a game or if I can get a game at a similar price on GOG or Steam, I would usually go for GOG due to the lack of DRM.
00:32:50.380 --> 00:32:50.860
Phil: Absolutely.
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.280
Phil: That's the initialism I was thinking of.
00:32:54.260 --> 00:32:58.380
Phil: But honestly, you know, as a game maker, all I've ever done is The Witcher.
00:32:58.840 --> 00:33:05.320
Phil: From 2007 through till today, Cyberpunk was the first game that they've made outside of The Witcher-iverse.
00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:06.920
Phil: Yes, that's what I said.
00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:20.420
Phil: And so to a certain degree, like, because they're interpreting everything through a broken English kind of world, The Witcher is a Polish intellectual property.
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:22.180
Phil: So of course they're going to nail it, you know.
00:33:22.660 --> 00:33:44.580
Phil: But I would never presume, even though we live in a monoculture world where you're exposed to all sorts of, you know, Western influences, I would never presume to go into and make a Polish game or write a Polish book as a Westerner who doesn't speak Polish and think I'm going to have any success in terms of, you know, storytelling.
00:33:45.260 --> 00:33:57.720
Tom: I understand your point, but as I said, use of folklore in fantasy in an integrated manner is rare full stop.
00:33:57.840 --> 00:34:07.160
Tom: So if you want to give them the credit for doing that as artists, then that's the standard you should hold them to in whatever subject matter they use.
00:34:07.220 --> 00:34:10.200
Phil: Oh, hey, trust me, I'm not making an excuse for them.
00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:12.620
Phil: I'm arguing against their hubris.
00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:13.860
Phil: Yep.
00:34:14.180 --> 00:34:16.780
Phil: So, yeah, we're on the same page there.
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:26.460
Tom: And we do have to get to one last defining characteristic of Cyber Punk that they totally dropped the ball on.
00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:36.680
Tom: And it's become, it was anyway on release for a long time, a massive joke among the Cyber Punk fandom.
00:34:37.940 --> 00:35:15.420
Tom: Because whenever anyone would complain about the lack of vagina models available to your character at the start of the game, or that there were only three different penis types and various things like that, and that when you get naked in the game, you're naked in the inventory screen, but without a mod in the actual game world, you're wearing underpants, and that there are a total of only four prostitutes in the entirety of the game, and only, I think, four people who you can romance and engage in sexual intercourse with.
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:18.900
Tom: The response to this was, well, this is just insane.
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:20.220
Tom: This isn't pornography.
00:35:20.380 --> 00:35:22.040
Tom: This is a cyberpunk game.
00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:24.220
Tom: Well, you fucking dimwit!
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.460
Tom: Have you read a fucking cyberpunk novel?
00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:31.620
Tom: That's one of the defining characteristics of cyberpunk, is two things.
00:35:32.720 --> 00:35:34.520
Tom: One, transhumanism.
00:35:34.660 --> 00:35:41.120
Tom: And the term trans, as in transsexual, is related to transhumanism.
00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:45.500
Tom: So first of all, that should be a massive thing in character creation.
00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:53.240
Tom: And you should also be able to alter yourself after you've created your character to ridiculous degrees, which you can't do.
00:35:53.620 --> 00:36:12.120
Tom: And two, there should be a lot of fucking nudity and a lot of fucking fucking throughout the game because one of the defining differences between edgy science fiction that may be otherwise similar to cyberpunk science fiction is gratuitous sex.
00:36:13.580 --> 00:36:15.620
Tom: So it's just ridiculous.
00:36:15.640 --> 00:36:25.560
Tom: And people will come in claiming to be cyberpunk connoisseurs, whinging about people, wondering why this lacks this sort of stuff.
00:36:26.140 --> 00:36:39.000
Phil: Look, punk is punk, and ultimately this is a commercial product, but gratuitous sex and nudity is a component of any sort of punk, steampunk, punk, cyberpunk, you know, whatever you want to call it, donut punk.
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:49.020
Tom: And when you are of the anodyne variety who does not contain any sort of gratuitous sex, you will then put it in the name of your band to try and get away with it, e.g.
00:36:49.040 --> 00:36:49.940
Tom: the Sex Pistols.
00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:51.860
Phil: Yeah, there you go, or Dr.
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:52.940
Phil: Zog's Sex Wax.
00:36:53.620 --> 00:36:55.220
Phil: I don't even know if they have that in other countries.
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:13.300
Phil: Now, so, but ultimately, I think this game gets the most criticism because all they've ever done is The Witcher, and people are going into this thinking that this is going to be, you know, Cyber Witcher, and it's not.
00:37:14.740 --> 00:37:16.500
Phil: What could they have done differently?
00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:25.180
Tom: I think the main reason it has got so much criticism is because of how poorly they have handled it.
00:37:25.600 --> 00:37:47.120
Tom: Because this, while very amplified, because there was massive expectation amplified by how well they handled all the problems with The Witcher 3, a lot of the stuff that has gone wrong on Cyber Punk 2077 went wrong on The Witcher 3.
00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:53.880
Tom: And you can argue that it's gone worse to a high degree than it did in The Witcher 3.
00:37:54.060 --> 00:38:01.920
Tom: And outside of, in terms of gameplay, I don't think that's really true.
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:09.520
Tom: But in terms of glitches and delays and that sort of thing, yes, Cyber Punk 2077 is probably a little bit worse.
00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:21.780
Tom: But the biggest difference is their PR team was absolutely incredible during the release and the following months and months of issues of The Witcher 3.
00:38:22.060 --> 00:38:25.640
Tom: Here, it has been a total and utter disaster.
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:29.180
Tom: They said they were going to not do crunch.
00:38:30.040 --> 00:38:30.440
Phil: Twice.
00:38:30.460 --> 00:38:32.020
Tom: Low and behold, yet twice.
00:38:32.900 --> 00:38:56.400
Tom: Low and behold, when people started complaining about it taking so long, their response wasn't, we believe in creating art, and we are going to stick to one, respecting our workers and not forcing them to do crunch, which may delay things, but we have committed to this, and two, releasing the best possible vision we can.
00:38:56.640 --> 00:39:07.680
Tom: Instead, no, they gave up on not doing crunch and announced another release date, and they did this several times.
00:39:08.220 --> 00:39:21.220
Tom: Then they engaged in the sort of review bullshit that people will expect from other publishers, where you could only review the PC version and not the totally broken console versions.
00:39:23.620 --> 00:39:36.820
Tom: Then, once that has occurred, all they can come up with is announcing a generic refund statement for the console version, sorry, just a generic statement.
00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:51.880
Tom: And given the anger and how overly invested in the whole process a lot of fans were, people were assuming that this applied to PC as well in as easy a manner.
00:39:52.660 --> 00:39:54.200
Phil: You mean PlayStation 4?
00:39:55.940 --> 00:39:57.460
Tom: They announced a refund.
00:39:57.740 --> 00:40:05.020
Tom: They didn't go into details, but it was obviously aimed predominantly at PS4 and Xbox One versions.
00:40:05.740 --> 00:40:15.920
Tom: So that created confusion as to how that was working because the PlayStation and Xbox version of the games were essentially broken for many people.
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:22.620
Tom: So it wasn't like it was just a glitchy game as the PC version was.
00:40:23.540 --> 00:40:54.740
Tom: So that then created confusion, and since then, they've been overhyping their patches, which are all just basic fixes of glitches, as if they're going to make pretty big changes and fixes to the games, which what they're saying isn't technically untrue, but given the hysterical nature of the community, they obviously need to be using really clear language about what they're doing, and they are not doing that at all.
00:40:56.220 --> 00:41:14.820
Phil: And the cherry on the top was when they threw their QA people, which are probably the lowest paid people in their whole system under the bus, going, well, you know, they didn't check it properly, we're the creatives up at the top of the pile, we assume these people down there are going to tell us when our game is shit.
00:41:15.540 --> 00:41:18.120
Phil: So yeah, it's been completely mismanaged.
00:41:18.220 --> 00:41:25.440
Phil: As you said, Witcher 3 and their technical problems, number one, they released it on PC first, didn't release it on the consoles.
00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:30.400
Phil: And so PC guys and gals, we're all experimenters.
00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:34.300
Phil: We expect a little bit of this and that to and fro.
00:41:34.660 --> 00:41:36.040
Phil: We've all got different systems.
00:41:36.060 --> 00:41:37.720
Phil: Of course, it's not going to run perfectly.
00:41:38.620 --> 00:41:43.880
Phil: Work through your problems, and then after about a year and a half to two, then you release it on a console.
00:41:44.080 --> 00:41:55.960
Phil: I mean, hell, Witcher 3 came to Switch last year, you know, and this time they just went with selling it through, you know, to every format.
00:41:55.980 --> 00:42:01.780
Phil: And that's the hubris that got them into trouble, thinking that, oh, well, we got away with this before.
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:02.580
Phil: We can do it again.
00:42:02.600 --> 00:42:04.380
Phil: We're a bigger, more powerful company now.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:14.340
Phil: They shouldn't have released it for PlayStation 4, I'm sorry, for PlayStation 5 and the new Xbox, period, because those people just invested $800.
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.340
Tom: I think those versions haven't been released yet.
00:42:16.700 --> 00:42:19.300
Phil: Well, that's it, but you can, yeah, you're right.
00:42:19.340 --> 00:42:25.500
Phil: I mean, you can play the backward compatible versions on your new system, which I think just increased the anger more.
00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:31.640
Phil: That's not their fault, but what amplified it was the fact that they released a broken game for consoles.
00:42:32.180 --> 00:42:37.480
Phil: Then people are paying it for the, you know, playing these on their brand new consoles and getting angry by it.
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:43.980
Phil: Thinking, well, if my new console that I spent $700 on isn't as good as a PC, then what am I doing?
00:42:44.520 --> 00:42:48.740
Phil: You know, there's lots of factors here, but the bottom line is they've screwed up.
00:42:49.260 --> 00:42:50.720
Phil: They don't deserve any breaks.
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:56.880
Phil: This was completely foreseeable given it was their first venture away from The Witcher.
00:42:57.580 --> 00:43:03.600
Phil: Ultimately, from what I'm hearing you say, this isn't a very good game at all at the end of it anyway.
00:43:03.980 --> 00:43:06.480
Phil: But worth playing, but just not a good game.
00:43:07.520 --> 00:43:21.080
Tom: Yes, this is where things get interesting though, because if we go into it, expecting this to be using a punk analysis, the Dead Kennedys, we're going to be tremendously disappointed.
00:43:21.640 --> 00:43:45.220
Tom: If we go into it expecting it to be Green Day, then I think as far as the characters and the narrative are concerned, particularly a la The Witcher 3, in the side quest, I think there is a lot to enjoy, and it ends up being very engrossing.
00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:50.940
Tom: The way they handle the main character is really impressive.
00:43:51.640 --> 00:44:17.860
Tom: They manage to give you enough customization options, and I think that you being able to choose what the origin story, and while it only affects the one or two hour introduction to the game, that's enough to make you more interested in the character as simultaneously an avatar for you that you've created, as well as a character in the world.
00:44:19.060 --> 00:44:34.340
Tom: The Keanu Reeves character is as wooden as every other Keanu Reeves performance ever, but in a good way, as in many of his performances, and as a comical foil for the protagonist, it works really well.
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:55.700
Tom: And the enjoyment of going around the world, like in The Witcher 3, and encountering eccentric and silly characters that take you on an amusing and sometimes almost moving short story is there to the same degree as it is in The Witcher 3.
00:44:56.260 --> 00:45:16.060
Tom: And in the background, there is the main quest that, like in The Witcher 3, as opposed to the vastly superior Final DLC where they did a main narrative superbly, the main narrative is there just to point you in a direction basically.
00:45:16.720 --> 00:45:36.480
Tom: And that actually works well in a game like Cyber Punk 2077 or The Witcher 3, because it then does not get in the way of you going through the side quests and being properly introduced to the characters, including characters that are related to the main story.
00:45:36.940 --> 00:45:47.860
Tom: And the romance stories in it so far are handled really well and better than any romance stories in other games that I've played.
00:45:47.880 --> 00:46:00.040
Tom: An example of this, which a lot of people are annoyed about, but I think is absolutely hilarious, is the people you're trying to romance are not all pansexual.
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:09.000
Tom: So if you're playing as a male V, then characters who are not interested in men aren't going to be interested in you.
00:46:09.160 --> 00:46:18.280
Tom: But you can still play through the quest trying to seduce them and be rejected in a number of hilarious ways.
00:46:18.300 --> 00:46:18.920
Tom: It is brilliant.
00:46:18.940 --> 00:46:19.780
Phil: That's very Polish.
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:21.440
Phil: That's very Eastern European.
00:46:22.080 --> 00:46:22.480
Phil: Yes.
00:46:23.540 --> 00:46:33.740
Phil: I've got some stories to tell you off the show with my interactions with a Russian woman a few months ago who had some insights on this very topic.
00:46:36.300 --> 00:46:43.980
Tom: So that that is to me the biggest appeal of The Witcher 3 is there and as good as The Witcher 3.
00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:53.100
Tom: And this is going to be a very controversial statement, but I find, and again, a lot of this is due to the input you have in creating the character.
00:46:54.640 --> 00:47:16.040
Tom: V, the protagonist, to be much more compelling and interesting than Geralt, or however it's pronounced, because he was basically a, if we're being honest, really generic, almost Conan-esque, smart-mouthed action hero sort of character.
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:18.220
Tom: In the romances, he wasn't.
00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:26.340
Tom: And in a couple of the side quests, there were really interesting frailties to the character and a more human side.
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:36.520
Tom: But through his interactions in the majority of the game, no, he was just cracking jokes and being a smart-ass.
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:52.900
Tom: The protagonist in this, there is witty banter between Yu and Keanu Reeves' character, but her interactions with most of the world or his, depending on how you're playing it, are much more nuanced the entire time.
00:47:53.200 --> 00:47:59.080
Tom: And it's like the interesting part of Geralt all the time, as opposed to just in certain sections.
00:48:00.940 --> 00:48:12.200
Tom: And so far for me, there's a much higher consistency in the quality of the narrative, narratives of the PsyQuest as well, compared to The Witcher 3.
00:48:12.520 --> 00:48:14.860
Tom: So as long as you don't go...
00:48:15.780 --> 00:49:03.380
Tom: Once you get over the fact that they haven't done the interesting thing of, despite it being a blockbuster massive thing, doing something interesting with their subject matter, once you get over the fact they haven't done that, like they did in The Witcher 3, in many ways, narratively, it is better than The Witcher 3, and aesthetically, other than some ridiculously simplistic traffic and NPC behaviour, the world is a really rich and enjoyable to drive around and explore Cyberpunk setting as well, in the same way that The Witcher 3 world was enjoyable just to wander around in.
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:16.980
Phil: We've got a billion other games that we both thoroughly enjoyed, I believe, to talk about beyond Cyberpunk, but I have two questions for you, and then you can give us our closing thoughts.
00:49:17.640 --> 00:49:33.440
Phil: Do you think they would have been, A, do you think they would have been better off doing a GTA-style open world game, and B, do you think they're capable of doing that, given the range of, you know, driving, shooting and all the rest of it?
00:49:34.160 --> 00:49:50.240
Tom: I think they were smart and did not do that, because when you look at GTA-style games, what other than Saints Row has done that in a way that is as enjoyable as Grand Theft Auto?
00:49:50.260 --> 00:49:50.520
Phil: None.
00:49:51.580 --> 00:49:52.180
Tom: Exactly.
00:49:52.860 --> 00:50:06.420
Tom: And the games that do that really well, that people enjoy as a polished experience, like, for example, Sleeping Dogs, or God forbid, some people say Yakuza.
00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:08.300
Phil: Or Far Cry.
00:50:10.700 --> 00:50:12.940
Tom: Far Cry, I think, is more in the Stalker mold.
00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:22.320
Tom: I think you have to give Stalker credit for them building on that after the original Far Cry.
00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:22.920
Phil: Fair enough.
00:50:24.020 --> 00:50:27.920
Phil: But it's probably smart for them to avoid the take to...
00:50:27.940 --> 00:50:46.040
Tom: Anyone who has done that properly, I mean, that has done that successfully, as much shit as this has got for not having police chases and things like that, have avoided attempting to do Grand Theft Auto and done something interesting with a slightly different take on it.
00:50:46.080 --> 00:51:05.580
Tom: And this is building much more on Metal Gear Solid 5, and this is the other area where I argue there is an incredible improvement on Witcher 3, and that is in the combat and basic gameplay loop.
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:31.580
Tom: Where it is not necessarily as good as the Witcher 3 in terms of the combat is in the leveling system, but you can still do some really interesting stuff and also a lot of the skills they give you don't really affect how you play, like the hacking stuff and things like that, other than super overpowered things where you basically kill everyone in the level by releasing a virus.
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:43.980
Tom: Using hacking or not using hacking other than when you're overpowered or basic things like knowing where enemies are really has no effect.
00:51:44.180 --> 00:51:52.660
Tom: So it's basically just a first person shooter with RPG elements that affect how much damage you do and your armor and things like that.
00:51:52.800 --> 00:52:02.780
Tom: But that's one area where it is interesting as an RPG, because you can come up with kind of ridiculously broken builds in a fun way.
00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:10.080
Tom: Like I said, you can do a ridiculously overpowered hacking build where you can kill everything in a level by releasing a virus.
00:52:10.260 --> 00:52:21.740
Tom: You can also do things like stack damage multipliers, so that your critical hits will do several times more damage than any enemy in the game has.
00:52:22.340 --> 00:52:40.940
Tom: And that, to me anyway, in a first-person shooter makes it enjoyable, because if you're stacking stealth stats for hitting people from stealth, as well as headshots, it adds a layer of skill, because you have to be stealthy and get headshots, and then you're rewarded with an instant kill.
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:44.040
Tom: And if you don't do that, then you get into trouble.
00:52:44.600 --> 00:52:46.980
Tom: So that sort of stuff is a lot of fun.
00:52:47.420 --> 00:53:05.900
Tom: But more importantly, the way the world is constructed is very much like Grand Theft Auto, where it's an open world with, in the open world, there are various miniature sort of dungeons that you run into, many of which you can totally ignore if you want.
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:12.000
Tom: And you go through these dungeons using stealth or however you want to approach it.
00:53:12.640 --> 00:53:40.300
Tom: And they're little mini levels that combined with the relatively satisfying gunplay that you can make really satisfying if you stack skills like I have, it ends up actually being an enjoyable experience as a game in terms of combat, which The Witcher 3 was not for me at any point, including after they altered the control scheme.
00:53:40.940 --> 00:53:44.740
Phil: I've got to say after upgrading my PC, I did the usual things.
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:56.100
Phil: I played Crysis, I went into Witcher, and it's nice to be able to go into games and put everything on Ultra and just put them through their paces.
00:53:56.620 --> 00:54:03.520
Phil: And playing Witcher on Ultra, admittingly it's an old game, yeah, it looked pretty shaky.
00:54:03.540 --> 00:54:10.820
Phil: I mean, it looked less than last gen video games in terms of certain aspects of it.
00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:28.800
Phil: So I forget my point, but in terms of, that's right, in terms of Witcher, actually playing it, it wasn't a fully enjoyable game, but I was more engaged with the world than I was with the characters or the gameplay.
00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:31.560
Phil: As you said, the fighting let me down.
00:54:32.940 --> 00:54:37.700
Phil: So is the Die of Destiny ready here, or have you got more?
00:54:37.720 --> 00:54:42.660
Tom: No, I have not finished it yet, so the Die of Destiny will have to wait.
00:54:42.680 --> 00:54:44.140
Phil: Wait, okay, very good.
00:54:44.140 --> 00:54:45.420
Tom: Did you have another question?
00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:51.960
Phil: Ultimately, it sounds to me like it's interesting enough if you have a PC to play it.
00:54:53.040 --> 00:54:56.620
Phil: It's still a very full price game though, I imagine.
00:54:57.620 --> 00:55:00.040
Tom: Yes, I believe it is, but if you...
00:55:00.060 --> 00:55:09.940
Tom: And I should add, because I got this as a physical copy from a pre-order when it was, I think, about 25% off.
00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:16.700
Tom: And I calculated correctly that even with the atrocious launch, it still hasn't really been going down in price.
00:55:16.740 --> 00:55:30.540
Tom: But as with all prior CD Projekt Red releases, the physical version is absolutely worth getting, even at a little bit over what...
00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:35.220
Tom: I mean, it was actually 25% cheaper than what you would pay for the digital version.
00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:44.540
Tom: But even if you have to pay more than the digital version, just a little bit, it is worth getting, as with all prior CD Projekt Red releases.
00:55:44.720 --> 00:55:47.240
Phil: And that's because of the extras involved?
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:48.140
Tom: Yes, yes.
00:55:48.520 --> 00:56:08.720
Tom: It had postcards from the setting, a quality map, a lore book, a reversible cover, which works better than many reversible covers, given the fact that it reverses between a male and female V.
00:56:09.260 --> 00:56:16.080
Tom: And I think some other things that I can't recall right now, but it was, all of those things were extremely well produced.
00:56:16.160 --> 00:56:27.000
Phil: Okay, I don't know why they'd include a book about the lore in there, but anyway, but you know, maybe when we're talking about Space Court, that would have been more relevant if they'd include a lore book.
00:56:27.040 --> 00:56:35.260
Phil: But all right, well, it sounds good, but like, is a physical copy as useless as any other physical copy in that you put it into your computer and then you download 200-
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:37.700
Tom: Oh, well, that reminds me, that reminds me.
00:56:37.720 --> 00:56:45.520
Tom: Actually, one of the best things about it was it features a two-disc set of the OST.
00:56:45.680 --> 00:56:46.820
Phil: Oh, okay, very good.
00:56:47.160 --> 00:56:49.860
Phil: So it's got some actual useful discs in it.
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:51.200
Tom: Yes, it does.
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:58.560
Tom: And the code for the game came on a credit card like Scratchy.
00:56:58.720 --> 00:56:59.420
Phil: Oh, that's cool.
00:57:00.380 --> 00:57:01.640
Phil: Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:07.980
Phil: Okay, well, Cyber Punk 2077 will go scoreless for this episode.
00:57:08.460 --> 00:57:21.920
Tom: Just remembered something hilarious, which perfectly epitomizes the utter failing of Cyber Punk 2077 of using the genre as it was intended to be.
00:57:22.580 --> 00:57:41.820
Tom: One of the other interesting themes in Cyber Punk, as opposed to most sci-fi, is that the protagonists and characters, not necessarily the protagonists, but always characters in it, there are always characters featured in extremely low-paid jobs.
00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:49.580
Tom: For example, many of the characters in Cyber Punk are working as pizza delivery men and things like that.
00:57:49.980 --> 00:57:55.780
Tom: And I don't know if you've heard of this thing known as the Gig economy and the company called Uber.
00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:56.700
Phil: Yep, I've heard of them.
00:57:57.320 --> 00:57:58.020
Tom: Yep.
00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:05.360
Tom: Seems like a pretty obvious thing to be integrating into your story there.
00:58:05.380 --> 00:58:15.680
Tom: But alas, no one is delivering anything except for as parts of important, organized crime heists, unfortunately.
00:58:16.520 --> 00:58:17.660
Phil: It's a lost opportunity.
00:58:19.700 --> 00:58:23.320
Tom: But speaking of crime, Space Court.
00:58:23.340 --> 00:58:28.000
Phil: Yes, Space Court, it's a video game for the PC only, I think.
00:58:29.500 --> 00:58:31.960
Phil: It's exactly spelt as you would think, two words.
00:58:32.080 --> 00:58:34.660
Phil: It's published by a company called Uphill Productions.
00:58:34.680 --> 00:58:38.060
Phil: And from what I can tell, this is their first and only game so far.
00:58:40.160 --> 00:58:47.960
Phil: And it's in the realm of, I'd say 386, 286 type graphics, if you think of early...
00:58:47.980 --> 00:58:49.540
Tom: 486, I'd say.
00:58:49.680 --> 00:58:50.920
Phil: What did I say, 386?
00:58:51.020 --> 00:58:51.280
Phil: Oh, nah.
00:58:51.300 --> 00:58:53.200
Tom: 386 or 286.
00:58:53.220 --> 00:58:54.560
Phil: Yeah, no, it'd be 386.
00:58:56.440 --> 00:59:12.040
Phil: If you think of Space Quest on the 286, but with full color, not full color, but probably, I'd say, 16 range color, then this game would have been achievable, I think, on a 286.
00:59:12.060 --> 00:59:14.800
Phil: And that's why I said 386, because the colors weren't there.
00:59:15.100 --> 00:59:18.900
Phil: Because on 286, you were limited to like cyan and purple, black and white.
00:59:19.620 --> 00:59:21.480
Phil: And this is a full range color game.
00:59:22.620 --> 00:59:28.040
Tom: Given the detail involved and some of the animation, I'm still going to go with 486.
00:59:28.060 --> 00:59:28.760
Phil: Yep, fair enough.
00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:36.840
Phil: From a computational perspective, but I think from an aesthetic, it harkens back towards those earlier PC platforms.
00:59:38.260 --> 00:59:39.080
Phil: Would you not agree?
00:59:40.360 --> 00:59:49.260
Phil: Yep, and it's a game that takes place in a single screen, which used to be important back in the day, is how many screens a game had.
00:59:50.700 --> 01:00:00.680
Phil: Essentially, if I'm getting the story correctly, you are an innocent bystander who has been made a judge of a court.
01:00:01.660 --> 01:00:07.820
Tom: The judges in this Galactic Empire are drafted a la jurors.
01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:08.680
Phil: Yeah, yep.
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:10.380
Phil: So all of a sudden you're a judge.
01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:14.760
Tom: And there also appears to be no jurors, by the way, so that may be why.
01:00:14.780 --> 01:00:16.400
Phil: Yep, and quick fire.
01:00:16.700 --> 01:00:22.460
Phil: These people will come before you with their cases, and you basically have to rule on them.
01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:24.080
Phil: It's a pretty short game.
01:00:24.100 --> 01:00:29.300
Phil: I think it's less than two hours, possibly slightly more than two hours.
01:00:30.220 --> 01:00:36.280
Tom: I believe it took me 79 minutes or less.
01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:39.120
Phil: I think it took me like an hour and 20 minutes or something like that too.
01:00:39.140 --> 01:00:41.060
Phil: So we're about the same place.
01:00:43.140 --> 01:00:44.140
Phil: What did you think of it?
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:46.120
Tom: I thought it was great.
01:00:47.040 --> 01:00:53.760
Tom: Basically, the people coming before your court are a variety of aliens.
01:00:53.780 --> 01:01:12.780
Tom: I'm not sure if that's necessarily the right term given that it is a Galactic Court, but denizens of different planets under your rule of law as a Galactic Empire judge with their grievances which are related to each other's activities.
01:01:14.520 --> 01:01:30.760
Tom: For example, there is an alliance between a very aggressive planet and a more peaceful planet who share the spoils of the pillaging and looting of the aggressive planet.
01:01:31.980 --> 01:01:50.900
Tom: And there is an orc-like species which is running into difficulties with a water-inhabiting octopus or jellyfish, rather like species, as they are all of a sudden stuck together on the same planet.
01:01:51.040 --> 01:01:55.740
Tom: And you have to try and resolve these issues.
01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:08.480
Phil: So as they come before you, you'll be given an option, usually three or four choices, to respond in terms of your dialogue, which will determine how the court case goes.
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:17.360
Phil: And to me, I found that the writing was pivotal in this.
01:02:17.500 --> 01:02:21.500
Phil: You know, some of the animations of the characters, the simple animations, are fine.
01:02:21.720 --> 01:02:27.680
Phil: I don't think any of the characters were particularly drawn well outside of the genre.
01:02:27.700 --> 01:02:28.980
Tom: I think they managed to be huge.
01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:29.960
Phil: Yeah, very, very...
01:02:30.180 --> 01:02:30.960
Tom: And endearing.
01:02:31.100 --> 01:02:34.760
Phil: And they got the point across, but the key to me was the writing.
01:02:37.040 --> 01:02:40.640
Tom: I think Special Mention should also go to the music, though.
01:02:41.520 --> 01:02:41.860
Phil: Yes.
01:02:41.940 --> 01:02:59.300
Tom: Because it managed to capture that overly amplified feeling of 486 or 386 music in games without it being quite as annoying as they actually were.
01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:04.360
Phil: And the game certainly has, because of the single screen, has that pantomime quality to it.
01:03:05.240 --> 01:03:15.940
Phil: It's the sort of thing that you could imagine if translated into the language of the times, you know, appearing on a stage in the 1800s and people just gobbling it up.
01:03:16.120 --> 01:03:22.860
Phil: And like, you know, if you had the dialogue choices on a chalkboard or a piece of canvas that...
01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:23.860
Tom: Just change...
01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:24.560
Tom: very simple.
01:03:24.620 --> 01:03:35.760
Tom: Just change the people in it from being different species in a galactic empire to different savages in a colonial empire.
01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:36.720
Tom: Perfect.
01:03:36.740 --> 01:03:49.160
Phil: And if you're doing a stage show and then all these choices unfurl on a piece of canvas and the crowd yells out, you know, one or two or three, you know, and then the actor's actually engaged, this completely works.
01:03:49.180 --> 01:04:04.820
Phil: I mean, this is a very low-tech game in terms of its implementation because what it relies on is its storytelling dialogue, its stereotypes, and because they're in a galactic realm, they're funny, they're not offensive.
01:04:05.520 --> 01:04:10.860
Phil: I'd find them funny if they were not in an intergalactic theme, but it's just really well done.
01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:22.240
Phil: I got to the end of the game thinking that this would be a three act game, that, okay, yep, we've resolved these, you know, these two or three cases, and what are they going to serve me next?
01:04:22.640 --> 01:04:25.660
Phil: And sadly, the game ended at that point.
01:04:26.060 --> 01:04:30.080
Phil: So, you know, I credit the game for its value.
01:04:30.100 --> 01:04:31.920
Phil: It's like $2.50.
01:04:32.180 --> 01:04:34.400
Tom: And honestly, I think it's $4.00.
01:04:34.420 --> 01:04:36.220
Phil: Yeah, $4.50.
01:04:36.520 --> 01:04:42.800
Phil: I got it for free because I traded in all my trading cards on Steam because I was just sick of seeing them.
01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:46.080
Phil: So I sold them all and, you know, I got the game for free.
01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:51.680
Phil: It was kind of a goal for me as I moved through selling off all my trading cards on Steam.
01:04:53.080 --> 01:04:56.160
Phil: And, yeah, I was really well pleased with this game.
01:04:56.200 --> 01:04:57.220
Phil: I thought it was great.
01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.840
Phil: I'd give it probably an 8 out of 10.
01:05:01.620 --> 01:05:06.580
Phil: I think it's not the sort of game that supports downloadable content.
01:05:06.640 --> 01:05:10.540
Phil: I don't think there's going to be additional, you know, rounds of content for this game.
01:05:11.420 --> 01:05:16.340
Phil: But for the people or persons who were responsible for it, you know, keep going, please.
01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:18.240
Phil: It was very enjoyable.
01:05:18.260 --> 01:05:21.140
Phil: And did you turn me on to it, or did I turn you on to it?
01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:24.500
Tom: You turned me on to it.
01:05:24.520 --> 01:05:26.980
Phil: Yeah, I think you asked if it was a work simulator, which...
01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:28.440
Tom: Yes, it is.
01:05:28.560 --> 01:05:29.260
Phil: You think it is?
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:30.580
Tom: It absolutely is, yes.
01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:33.680
Phil: It doesn't have the rituals of a work simulator?
01:05:34.620 --> 01:05:35.260
Tom: It does.
01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:41.720
Tom: Every day, they come to you with their problems and whining, and you have to give them answers.
01:05:42.200 --> 01:06:06.040
Tom: We should add in terms of gameplay, there is a trust meter that each representative of each planet has, and you obviously need to have that as high as possible, but you have to be balancing that with trying to work out what the best solutions, as you see, fit out of the problems.
01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:10.000
Tom: So that's how the gameplay is interesting.
01:06:12.040 --> 01:06:29.820
Tom: And to be able to tell them what to do at the end, so that it ends with whatever solution you come up, you have to have their trust level at a certain amount for them to actually put their faith in you and do what you advise.
01:06:30.680 --> 01:06:35.140
Phil: The game is only available on Steam or Gamejolt.
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:39.800
Phil: It's not available on itch.io, to which we owe much.
01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:45.460
Phil: But yeah, certainly well worth playing and experiencing.
01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:48.140
Phil: You can get it on Steam for $2.99.
01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:51.600
Phil: It's got an average rating of 9 out of 10.
01:06:51.620 --> 01:06:56.680
Phil: Yeah, a thoroughly innovative and enjoyable game.
01:06:57.060 --> 01:06:58.200
Phil: Certainly very brave.
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:06.800
Phil: And I hope that the developer uphill, you know, sticks with it and brings us something else as well.
01:07:07.260 --> 01:07:15.940
Phil: I'm imagining, I hope that they don't just do a derivative type King's Quest type game, because obviously Space Court...
01:07:16.040 --> 01:07:17.560
Tom: A medieval King Court.
01:07:17.580 --> 01:07:18.440
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
01:07:18.600 --> 01:07:19.680
Phil: I mean, maybe, I mean...
01:07:19.960 --> 01:07:23.880
Tom: Well, a King Court could in fact be a totally different sort of court.
01:07:23.900 --> 01:07:26.440
Phil: Yeah, we can only hope for a Space Court 2.
01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:32.560
Tom: But I think one of the most original and brave things about it was how short it was.
01:07:32.580 --> 01:07:34.320
Tom: And I wasn't expecting it.
01:07:35.020 --> 01:07:37.040
Tom: It was perfectly self-contained.
01:07:37.460 --> 01:07:43.480
Tom: Everything in the story, well, at least how I entered it, was well resolved.
01:07:44.740 --> 01:07:59.400
Tom: The arc of you and your interactions with your boss, who hilariously at the end where the shit is about to hit the fan, takes sick leave and runs off, are all resolved.
01:07:59.960 --> 01:08:05.920
Tom: And the character arcs of the other characters as well are nicely resolved as well.
01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:15.580
Tom: I think as a flash fiction, it works perfectly and it doesn't give you any bullshit of trying to set up anything, any sort of sequel or DLC or anything like that.
01:08:15.600 --> 01:08:27.320
Tom: I think one of the best things about it was that it managed to be a really short, really satisfying story that ended as well as it started and was perfectly satisfying, for me anyway.
01:08:27.340 --> 01:08:31.940
Phil: Yeah, definitely, unlike Coffee Talk, which we might get to later on.
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:36.720
Phil: But okay, so is The Die of Destiny ready for this one?
01:08:36.740 --> 01:08:37.540
Phil: You did finish it.
01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:40.120
Tom: We have to get into spoiler territory about the ending.
01:08:40.140 --> 01:08:41.920
Phil: Oh, do we though?
01:08:41.940 --> 01:08:44.040
Tom: Do we do that before or after The Die of Destiny?
01:08:44.060 --> 01:08:45.060
Phil: Do The Die of Destiny.
01:08:45.080 --> 01:08:48.580
Tom: Okay, your rating was an 8 out of 10, right?
01:08:51.440 --> 01:08:52.100
Phil: Sounds like a 6.
01:08:52.120 --> 01:08:56.960
Tom: The Die of Destiny is spoken, and it gets a 0 out of 10.
01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:00.280
Phil: So the, averaging it out...
01:09:00.340 --> 01:09:01.540
Tom: Oh, actually, no, hang on.
01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:02.040
Tom: I'm just...
01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:04.860
Tom: The dice can be a little confusing.
01:09:04.920 --> 01:09:07.460
Tom: No, 0 is a 10, I just realized.
01:09:07.540 --> 01:09:11.380
Phil: All right, so it's 18 divided by 2 is 9, so that's a 9.
01:09:11.740 --> 01:09:18.140
Tom: Having looked at some ancient bylaw on the dice, it turns out that 0 is a 10.
01:09:18.820 --> 01:09:23.640
Tom: So Space Court, 10 out of 10, giving it a total score of 18 out of 20.
01:09:24.400 --> 01:09:26.380
Phil: Yeah, 18 out of 20 or 9 out of 10.
01:09:26.400 --> 01:09:29.480
Phil: So, yeah, I can...
01:09:29.480 --> 01:09:30.340
Phil: I'm happy with that.
01:09:30.400 --> 01:09:31.320
Phil: I can grant it that.
01:09:33.580 --> 01:09:35.660
Phil: Now, spoiler territory...
01:09:37.300 --> 01:09:40.220
Tom: And I would recommend playing it without being spoiled.
01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:42.980
Phil: Oh, well, should we hold the spoiler to the end of the show?
01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:44.020
Phil: Talk about some other games.
01:09:44.320 --> 01:09:46.700
Phil: Yeah, because we don't want to spoil people.
01:09:46.720 --> 01:09:47.700
Phil: It's a $3 game.
01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:48.880
Phil: Go buy it, people.
01:09:49.660 --> 01:09:50.840
Phil: We know you've got a PC.
01:09:50.860 --> 01:09:52.540
Phil: You're listening to a podcast, so...
01:09:54.060 --> 01:09:57.120
Phil: Okay, so what's the next game on the list?
01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:00.540
Tom: Well, you did mention Coffee Talk.
01:10:01.240 --> 01:10:01.980
Phil: I did mention...
01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:09.800
Tom: You also mentioned Not Tonight, but let's ignore all of those choices and go for The Medium, which was recently released.
01:10:09.820 --> 01:10:12.660
Tom: It's made by, I believe they're called Bloober Team.
01:10:14.360 --> 01:10:21.320
Tom: Who are famous for Layers of Fear and other first-person horror games.
01:10:21.340 --> 01:10:25.940
Tom: The Medium is interesting, and they are, I think, another Polish developer.
01:10:26.480 --> 01:10:29.980
Tom: They're certainly in Eastern Europe in any case, but...
01:10:30.400 --> 01:10:33.820
Tom: And the game is set in Poland, if I remember correctly, regardless.
01:10:33.940 --> 01:10:49.060
Tom: But The Medium, rather than being first person, is third person, and it plays not unlike old Resident Evil titles, minus the combat.
01:10:49.080 --> 01:10:56.940
Tom: So there are fixed cameras in the level that you move around from room to room, and that sort of thing.
01:10:56.960 --> 01:11:06.460
Tom: And the hook of the game is that you are a medium, and you can enter the spirit world, which splits the screen, which is interesting.
01:11:07.100 --> 01:11:17.100
Tom: One, as a gameplay mechanic, but two, they're an indie team, and this is obviously because the two worlds are actually different and have different things going on them.
01:11:17.440 --> 01:11:31.260
Tom: This is actually a massive technical undertaking, making it one, hot on the heels of Cyber Punk 2077, one of the hardest games you can run on PC today.
01:11:32.580 --> 01:11:34.800
Tom: And they make pretty good use of it.
01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:47.580
Tom: It's used in puzzles where you need to switch back and forth between the two worlds to do things that affect one layer and the other.
01:11:47.780 --> 01:12:03.000
Tom: For example, one of the things you can do in the spirit world is collect spirit energy, which you can then use to power electrical devices in the real world and things like that.
01:12:03.380 --> 01:12:15.640
Tom: I'm pretty early in the game, so that sort of stuff is really simple at this time, but it is nevertheless as an interesting wrinkle to the game play, and it's certainly aesthetically effective.
01:12:16.020 --> 01:12:55.840
Tom: The enemies in the game that are chasing you are in the vein of pans, labyrinths, and I don't know if there's a term for it, but that sort of monster design that is more like grimoire style demons than it is contemporary zombies or other gore based monsters that are much more based on diseases and mutations and mutilated bodies and that sort of thing, which makes for a so far rich experience aesthetically.
01:12:56.060 --> 01:13:00.020
Tom: The rendering of the Polish setting is great.
01:13:00.040 --> 01:13:17.980
Tom: It begins in those beautiful Eastern European blocks of flats, not the Soviet style ones, though many of them could be quite interesting, the ones built before that and from the 19th century.
01:13:18.140 --> 01:13:25.960
Tom: And you then move on in stark contrast to that to a Soviet resort town.
01:13:27.360 --> 01:13:29.560
Tom: So aesthetically, it's really enjoyable.
01:13:29.580 --> 01:13:38.420
Tom: In terms of gameplay, despite the wrinkle of the switching between worlds, it's really basic so far.
01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:42.840
Tom: There is no combat, and it doesn't seem like there will be any combat at any point.
01:13:43.240 --> 01:13:54.440
Tom: So the only time you are actually in danger of anything in the world is either when you're being chased or when you're encountering a swarm of insects, which are totally passive.
01:13:54.740 --> 01:13:59.240
Tom: So if you walk into them without any spirit energy, you'll be killed.
01:13:59.540 --> 01:14:02.300
Tom: If you collect some spirit energy, you can frighten them off with that.
01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:13.820
Tom: So you never really feel like you're in danger, which is kind of a problem for a horror game, because so far the chase sequences have all been totally scripted.
01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:20.000
Phil: Well, the last four games prior to this were survival horror games, of which this is also categorized.
01:14:20.020 --> 01:14:23.900
Phil: So never really feeling in fear is a problem.
01:14:24.640 --> 01:14:25.440
Tom: Yep, it is.
01:14:26.620 --> 01:14:37.320
Tom: But depending on how the game unfolds, it may not if the narrative goes in an interesting direction and the aesthetic remains of high quality.
01:14:37.340 --> 01:14:40.840
Tom: It certainly encourages me to continue playing.
01:14:41.720 --> 01:14:44.520
Phil: The prior game was Blair Witch.
01:14:48.220 --> 01:14:49.680
Phil: Is there any found footage?
01:14:50.180 --> 01:15:01.860
Tom: Well, I was about to mention, not unlike found footage, there is an interesting photo developing minigame mechanic that has been repeated in the game.
01:15:01.880 --> 01:15:18.180
Tom: So I assume it will actually be a mechanic that will continue through the game where you find undeveloped photographic paper, and you have to go through the process of developing it with the several sets of chemicals and exposure to light.
01:15:19.360 --> 01:15:39.900
Tom: So that is basically their main puzzle mechanic in it, and the way they have altered it in the two instances of it so far, so that you are having to figure things out, is in the first one you had to work out how the process worked full stop.
01:15:40.100 --> 01:15:45.400
Tom: In the second you had to arrange the chemicals yourself and do things like that.
01:15:45.700 --> 01:15:58.540
Tom: So I don't know how they can add more things to that to keep that being interesting as a puzzle to solve, but it is an interesting way of introducing a found footage style thing into the game.
01:15:58.540 --> 01:16:04.640
Phil: But long time listeners will know you are a sucker for any mechanic slightly related to photography.
01:16:06.040 --> 01:16:06.460
Tom: Absolutely.
01:16:08.400 --> 01:16:11.920
Phil: As we probably won't get to talk about in 1111, Memories Retold.
01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:19.160
Tom: But in spite of the lack of fear, it is an interesting beginning.
01:16:19.160 --> 01:16:25.460
Tom: But hopefully the horror elements will become a bit more extreme.
01:16:25.480 --> 01:16:39.640
Tom: And the one thing that gets in the way of the otherwise really engrossing setting and aesthetic is all the characters are voiced in English and speak with heavy American accents.
01:16:39.660 --> 01:16:40.080
Phil: Oh, God.
01:16:42.280 --> 01:16:47.300
Tom: The performances themselves are fine, but it just does not fit the setting at all.
01:16:48.080 --> 01:16:52.580
Phil: So if you have a single favourite thing about the game, what is it?
01:16:55.060 --> 01:17:21.400
Tom: I would say it is without question the setting, both in terms of the architecture and also it could go in a really interesting direction because it opens with stock footage from the Nazi occupation of Poland and also Poland before that, among other historical events.
01:17:22.640 --> 01:17:28.380
Tom: And as I said, it goes to a Soviet holiday setting.
01:17:28.580 --> 01:17:49.040
Tom: So if it integrates in a successful and interesting manner, political history into the horror, again, as I said, the aesthetic of the monsters like Pan's Labyrinth, and obviously Pan's Labyrinth was doing that, so there's a reasonable chance it will, then it could end up being quite an interesting experience.
01:17:50.280 --> 01:18:01.000
Phil: Apparently, according to Wikipedia, the whole thing was based on an actual hotel in Krakow, so they leaned heavily on what they knew.
01:18:01.240 --> 01:18:09.540
Phil: And then the audio, which you also say is really great, was done by the Silent Hill Dream Team.
01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:18.480
Phil: The Silent Hill composer did the music, and some of the voice actors and singers were also having worked on prior Silent Hill work.
01:18:19.180 --> 01:18:21.780
Phil: And Silent Hill is known for its audio design.
01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:23.300
Tom: Absolutely.
01:18:23.340 --> 01:18:29.180
Phil: Though I can't quite recall the soundtrack from it, but the audio design of...
01:18:30.120 --> 01:19:02.480
Tom: That's because it was good, and that's a serious statement because the thing that I, anyway, recall most about the Silent Hill soundtrack and the music is legitimately good, but the thing that sticks in my mind and overpowers everything else because it is what remains in the overall aesthetic, and is mostly integrated into it, is the percussion, which is an endless repeated theme like a heartbeat throughout.
01:19:03.560 --> 01:19:06.300
Phil: And I can thoroughly recommend Silent Hill.
01:19:06.620 --> 01:19:18.740
Phil: Any Silent Hill game you can dip into, please do, but Silent Hill Shattered Memories for me, which is probably one of the most hidden of all gems, was just a masterful game.
01:19:19.420 --> 01:19:23.260
Phil: And the people that worked on it went on to do great things.
01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:28.000
Phil: So this is just early impressions of The Medium.
01:19:29.900 --> 01:19:30.440
Phil: Is that right?
01:19:31.200 --> 01:19:31.460
Tom: Yep.
01:19:31.540 --> 01:19:34.720
Phil: And it's available only on Microsoft systems.
01:19:34.740 --> 01:19:48.100
Phil: So you can play it on Windows, which is probably the best way to go, or you can play it on Xbox Series X or S, which I assume means you can play it on any Xbox One game, unless it's only for the...
01:19:48.440 --> 01:19:51.140
Phil: No, it's only for the new consoles.
01:19:51.160 --> 01:19:56.500
Tom: Yes, it is most certainly a next-gen title, in terms of its look.
01:19:57.120 --> 01:20:00.380
Tom: As is Cyber Punk 2077.
01:20:00.420 --> 01:20:16.640
Tom: I think those, certainly on PC anyway that I've played, those are the two games that stand out aesthetically, in terms of technically what they're doing, as being, quote, next-gen, end-quote titles.
01:20:17.560 --> 01:20:32.180
Tom: Games previously, like Exodus, had elements in them that were like that, but in Cyber Punk 2077, the ray tracing effects and the level of detail in the characters is incredible as well, and the textures.
01:20:32.600 --> 01:20:43.140
Tom: But the way ray tracing transforms the total aesthetic in that game is absolutely a generational leap that affects everything visually.
01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:58.820
Tom: And The Medium, while by no means as spectacular as that, the way that the split screen is handled would not be possible, at least for an indie team anyway, on all the hardware.
01:21:00.860 --> 01:21:04.980
Phil: And I'll use out the worn out anecdote about what TV is.
01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:08.680
Phil: They call it a medium because it is neither rare nor well done.
01:21:10.500 --> 01:21:14.600
Phil: But perhaps the medium will wait and get a score from you on a future episode.
01:21:15.360 --> 01:21:19.340
Phil: One of the reasons I like talking to Tom Towers is his unique perspective.
01:21:19.580 --> 01:21:28.720
Phil: And certainly you can enjoy that at our website at gameunder.net where Tom, you've apparently read 425 books last year.
01:21:29.660 --> 01:21:30.480
Tom: Yes, I have.
01:21:30.540 --> 01:21:35.780
Phil: And covered this in two different articles at gameunder.net.
01:21:36.660 --> 01:21:43.660
Phil: Out of the 425 books, most of us probably read less than 10 books a year, if we're quote intellectual.
01:21:45.340 --> 01:21:46.500
Phil: So is there a sink?
01:21:46.520 --> 01:21:57.480
Tom: Well, some of the 66 books I've read so far this year would suggest that being an intellectual is a very, very bad thing indeed.
01:21:57.500 --> 01:21:58.180
Phil: I would agree.
01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:02.620
Tom: So I would recommend reading less than 10 books a year.
01:22:02.840 --> 01:22:04.300
Phil: I would certainly agree with that.
01:22:04.500 --> 01:22:11.800
Phil: And I'm sure our listeners would as well, because instead of reading those 66 books, we probably could have done 4 episodes of the podcast.
01:22:12.440 --> 01:22:18.500
Phil: Is there a single book that you wish to highlight out of the 425 as a must read for our listeners?
01:22:20.500 --> 01:22:29.280
Tom: Well, we were talking about aesthetics, so I would have to recommend two I'm going to go with.
01:22:29.780 --> 01:22:33.520
Tom: One is the Red Book by Carl Jung.
01:22:33.820 --> 01:22:41.500
Tom: And Jung is famous, of course, as being the greatest psychologist not known as Freud.
01:22:42.760 --> 01:23:01.420
Tom: I assume that's how most people know him, but his towering achievement, which obliterates anything Freud has done, is a visionary illuminated manuscript called the Red Book, and it is absolutely gorgeous.
01:23:02.240 --> 01:23:10.880
Phil: Not to be confused with the Little Red Book or the Red Book Carr Research price guide.
01:23:11.940 --> 01:23:22.780
Tom: The Little Red Book I would also recommend, but better than that is Mao's poetry, which is surprisingly legitimately good.
01:23:23.140 --> 01:23:25.640
Phil: No poetry is legitimately good.
01:23:26.040 --> 01:23:28.380
Phil: I will go to my grave based on that.
01:23:29.780 --> 01:23:31.220
Phil: Who wrote the Little Red Book?
01:23:33.120 --> 01:23:33.580
Tom: Mao.
01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:36.760
Tom: You mean who compiled its content?
01:23:37.040 --> 01:23:38.100
Phil: Who actually wrote it?
01:23:38.500 --> 01:23:38.940
Phil: Mao did.
01:23:43.200 --> 01:23:46.820
Phil: I remain dubious.
01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:54.900
Tom: You can be skeptical of Mao's political achievements, but you can't be skeptical of his work as a warrior poet.
01:23:54.920 --> 01:24:02.160
Phil: Everyone listen up, because Tom read 425 books, so he's recommending The Red Book by Carl Jung.
01:24:03.940 --> 01:24:12.020
Phil: And what is it really, I mean, what is it, is it a theoretical study of some philosophy?
01:24:13.140 --> 01:24:14.140
Phil: What's it actually about?
01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:18.360
Tom: Well, it depends on what you mean by Bao.
01:24:18.380 --> 01:24:26.340
Tom: It's an illuminated manuscript illustrating his prophetic journey of self-discovery.
01:24:26.480 --> 01:24:30.620
Phil: Now, Jung said that to suit…
01:24:30.920 --> 01:24:32.720
Tom: It's basically religious art, essentially.
01:24:32.740 --> 01:24:38.020
Phil: Jung said himself, to the superficial observer, it will appear like madness.
01:24:39.960 --> 01:24:41.840
Phil: Is that hypercritical?
01:24:41.860 --> 01:24:45.560
Tom: I don't think that's accurate at all.
01:24:45.580 --> 01:24:47.080
Phil: So he's just self-deprecating.
01:24:48.420 --> 01:24:49.580
Tom: I think he's showing off.
01:24:51.200 --> 01:24:57.360
Tom: This is the era of occultism and naive art and automatic writing.
01:24:58.100 --> 01:24:59.960
Tom: So I think that's a statement showing off.
01:25:01.040 --> 01:25:02.340
Phil: I'm going to have to look into that.
01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:08.780
Phil: You are the king of the court here, so what's the next game we're going to be talking about?
01:25:09.540 --> 01:25:17.960
Tom: Well, given your statements on poetry, I'm going to recommend major poems by Jose Marti.
01:25:19.620 --> 01:25:22.060
Tom: The Cuban poet, which is...
01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:51.640
Tom: The poems themselves are exceptionally good, many of them anyway, but it is particularly notable given that he is nearly a whole generation before Rimbaud and others and is very much in that vein but significantly better and arguably has greater visionary imagery and more interesting juxtaposition of images as well.
01:25:51.660 --> 01:25:52.780
Phil: Doesn't he fall, though...
01:25:53.140 --> 01:25:54.800
Phil: He was a Cuban fellow, as I recall.
01:25:54.920 --> 01:25:57.160
Phil: Doesn't he fall more into that Mark Twain...
01:25:57.920 --> 01:26:01.400
Phil: Afro-like, you know...
01:26:01.600 --> 01:26:04.760
Phil: You know, I mean, really, it's just...
01:26:04.780 --> 01:26:06.000
Phil: He's a humorist, isn't he?
01:26:07.180 --> 01:26:07.460
Tom: No.
01:26:07.480 --> 01:26:10.000
Tom: I don't think he is.
01:26:10.940 --> 01:26:13.760
Tom: I think you must be thinking of another Jose Marte.
01:26:14.980 --> 01:26:15.920
Phil: Alright, fair enough.
01:26:16.200 --> 01:26:17.940
Phil: So where's Jose Marte from?
01:26:19.280 --> 01:26:19.760
Tom: Cuba.
01:26:19.780 --> 01:26:21.420
Phil: Okay, well, we're talking about the same guy.
01:26:21.440 --> 01:26:22.800
Tom: No, we're not.
01:26:23.400 --> 01:26:26.680
Phil: He was basically like a limerick kind of writer, you know.
01:26:26.700 --> 01:26:34.520
Phil: He had these short little quips, you know, that we go, oh, yeah, okay, you know, aphorisms and truisms and witticisms.
01:26:34.760 --> 01:26:35.620
Phil: I mean, it wasn't...
01:26:35.740 --> 01:26:36.680
Tom: When was he from?
01:26:36.700 --> 01:26:39.200
Tom: When is this Jose Marte from?
01:26:39.220 --> 01:26:43.700
Phil: It's like the 1800s or something, like early 1900s maybe.
01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:46.320
Phil: I remember learning about him at uni.
01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:53.540
Tom: Well, he was also a politician and a warrior, a soldier, sorry.
01:26:53.560 --> 01:26:56.880
Tom: So he may have also written poetry like that.
01:26:57.140 --> 01:26:57.700
Phil: I don't know.
01:26:57.720 --> 01:26:59.000
Tom: For propaganda purposes.
01:27:00.520 --> 01:27:02.100
Phil: But Jose Marte...
01:27:02.120 --> 01:27:04.840
Tom: Look up the book, yes, correct.
01:27:04.980 --> 01:27:07.540
Tom: Look up the book major poems specifically.
01:27:08.440 --> 01:27:10.280
Phil: Okay, I'll look into that.
01:27:12.980 --> 01:27:15.500
Tom: I'm not recommending his other poetry.
01:27:15.780 --> 01:27:19.480
Tom: He may have also written Mark Twain style aphorisms.
01:27:20.020 --> 01:27:22.280
Phil: I'm just saying, man, that was my exposure to him.
01:27:22.300 --> 01:27:27.520
Phil: You know, he had these kind of, you know, whimsical humorous kind of things.
01:27:27.940 --> 01:27:31.620
Tom: That's also the sort of thing that would be highlighted in the university course.
01:27:31.640 --> 01:27:32.200
Phil: Yeah, that's true.
01:27:32.960 --> 01:27:34.740
Phil: Especially one that's taught in America.
01:27:35.400 --> 01:27:37.640
Phil: Hey, speaking of Sky Child...
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:43.940
Tom: Especially one that's taught in America when he was also a Cuban nationalist.
01:27:44.220 --> 01:27:48.420
Phil: Speaking of Sky Children of Light, is apparently...
01:27:48.620 --> 01:27:49.600
Tom: And nationalist.
01:27:49.620 --> 01:27:54.660
Phil: Still coming out for the Nintendo Switch in spring of 2021.
01:27:54.800 --> 01:27:58.100
Phil: And so that would be late this year, if you can believe it.
01:27:59.640 --> 01:28:02.100
Tom: And it is currently embroiled in a controversy.
01:28:02.120 --> 01:28:04.860
Phil: Well, yeah, if you can believe it, which I don't.
01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:06.140
Phil: So what's the controversy?
01:28:07.380 --> 01:28:13.000
Tom: Well, the controversy is that it refers to one of the hats in the current system.
01:28:13.020 --> 01:28:29.300
Tom: It refers to this season as being inspired by a sort of Chinese hat, which the Koreans who play Sky have taken great offense to because they believe that that hat style is an invention of Korea, sorry.
01:28:30.340 --> 01:28:33.700
Phil: Okay, so it has a big following in Korea then?
01:28:34.640 --> 01:28:37.220
Tom: It has a big following in both Korea and China.
01:28:39.420 --> 01:28:50.300
Tom: And this is one of those soft points in between countries that have had colonial interactions with one another, essentially.
01:28:50.800 --> 01:28:54.660
Tom: And thus share many cultural elements.
01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:59.860
Tom: And this then generates much debate over who invented said cultural elements.
01:28:59.880 --> 01:29:01.080
Phil: I'd love to see this hat.
01:29:02.080 --> 01:29:03.140
Phil: Is it kind of one of...
01:29:03.420 --> 01:29:06.080
Phil: I'm trying to think, is it like a Hasidic kind of hat?
01:29:06.100 --> 01:29:10.540
Phil: Like a big stovepipe hat that comes down and covers the ears?
01:29:10.780 --> 01:29:15.720
Tom: It is kind of like a big stovepipe hat, but it has a very wide brim.
01:29:16.180 --> 01:29:32.020
Tom: It's not unlike Mexican and Central American hats, not the sombrero, though somewhat similar to that, but more flat brimmed black hats that you see in Central America as well.
01:29:32.040 --> 01:29:33.180
Tom: I'm not sure what the term is for.
01:29:33.200 --> 01:29:34.100
Phil: I'm looking at the hat.
01:29:34.120 --> 01:29:35.220
Phil: This is not controversy.
01:29:36.180 --> 01:29:37.340
Phil: This is not a controversy.
01:29:37.360 --> 01:29:41.340
Phil: It's just basically like a cattleman's sombrero.
01:29:42.600 --> 01:29:43.840
Tom: It is a controversy.
01:29:44.020 --> 01:29:45.160
Phil: Well, I know it's a controversy.
01:29:45.180 --> 01:29:47.280
Tom: There are a lot of angry people in the game.
01:29:48.260 --> 01:29:53.440
Phil: Both sides are claiming cultural significance related to the cosmetic item and refusing to give an inch.
01:29:57.180 --> 01:30:01.980
Phil: It's meant to resemble a gat, which is a traditional Korean headgear.
01:30:03.420 --> 01:30:11.200
Tom: It's, according to Jenova Chan, meant to resemble a traditional Chinese hat, which is like that Korean hat.
01:30:13.160 --> 01:30:15.260
Tom: But is Chinese a legend?
01:30:15.280 --> 01:30:30.120
Phil: Chinese users quickly laid claim to the hat as a feature of their cultural heritage, both in game and on social media, echoing the large movement by Chinese nationalists to discredit Korean culture as stolen from China during the two regions' historical relationship.
01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:31.900
Phil: This is a big deal.
01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:36.960
Tom: And Jenova Chen has made a statement.
01:30:36.980 --> 01:30:43.380
Tom: He first of all apologized for any confusion and did confirm that it was inspired by the Chinese hat.
01:30:44.220 --> 01:31:06.040
Tom: And it's interesting that that article mentions Chinese nationalism, but my Korean friends in the game are very much approaching this as an issue of national identity and nationalism and a part of affirming Korea's place in the world as a nation.
01:31:06.440 --> 01:31:12.360
Tom: So I would suggest that it is evident of both Chinese and Korean nationalism.
01:31:12.600 --> 01:31:17.580
Phil: Well, I'm going to have to wait till spring, apparently, to find out about this and join you in...
01:31:19.260 --> 01:31:21.020
Phil: Children of Sky, Children of Light.
01:31:21.040 --> 01:31:30.820
Tom: And thank god none of anyone I know on Sky visits gameunder.net because I believe I referred to that hat as Peruvian.
01:31:30.960 --> 01:31:32.140
Phil: Ooh, you know what?
01:31:32.160 --> 01:31:32.740
Phil: You're right.
01:31:32.760 --> 01:31:34.040
Phil: That is a Peruvian hat.
01:31:35.420 --> 01:31:36.240
Phil: You're damn right.
01:31:36.260 --> 01:31:39.660
Tom: So, fuck China, fuck Korea.
01:31:39.780 --> 01:31:42.340
Tom: The last word is that hat is clearly Peruvian.
01:31:42.980 --> 01:31:45.260
Tom: And they have both China and Korea.
01:31:45.940 --> 01:31:55.560
Tom: Fucking imperial China, stealing cultures all over the world, and now today, culturally appropriating, traditional Peruvian culture.
01:31:55.580 --> 01:31:55.740
Tom: Yeah.
01:31:55.860 --> 01:31:56.580
Tom: Disgusting.
01:31:56.600 --> 01:32:06.760
Phil: And you'll remember, I spent a few years in Peru when I was trying to get that whole powder-coating solution worked out and almost had a major breakthrough.
01:32:07.620 --> 01:32:13.340
Phil: So, if there's someone who knows about Peruvian hats and speaks Peruvian, then it's me, you know?
01:32:13.580 --> 01:32:13.940
Phil: So...
01:32:14.940 --> 01:32:17.760
Tom: Would you like to give us a short sentence in Peruvian?
01:32:18.020 --> 01:32:18.940
Phil: Not at this time.
01:32:19.240 --> 01:32:29.200
Phil: But what I would like, since we're running out of time for this show, you mentioned to me earlier something about Sky Television's nationalist controversy.
01:32:29.220 --> 01:32:31.760
Phil: Do you want to dip into that while we're on topic, or do you want to go...
01:32:31.780 --> 01:32:32.580
Tom: What was Sky?
01:32:32.600 --> 01:32:33.820
Tom: I have no idea what that is.
01:32:33.820 --> 01:32:36.680
Tom: I was talking about Sky Children of Light's national...
01:32:36.700 --> 01:32:38.740
Phil: I thought it was a Sky TV type thing.
01:32:39.620 --> 01:32:43.880
Phil: Because, you know, when you think of Sky TV, you think of nationalist controversies, so...
01:32:45.400 --> 01:32:46.160
Phil: Well done, sir.
01:32:46.240 --> 01:32:47.100
Phil: Well played.
01:32:48.220 --> 01:32:50.620
Phil: All right, well, we've still got time here to talk about one game.
01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:53.580
Phil: So do you want to roll the die and see what we can talk about?
01:32:55.780 --> 01:32:57.180
Tom: Surely not tonight.
01:32:57.200 --> 01:32:58.720
Tom: Wait, no, that's from 2018.
01:32:59.000 --> 01:32:59.700
Tom: Coffee Talk.
01:33:00.320 --> 01:33:01.220
Phil: Coffee Talk.
01:33:01.760 --> 01:33:02.980
Phil: Which is a game by...
01:33:03.220 --> 01:33:06.120
Phil: I'm going to pronounce the company name three ways.
01:33:06.140 --> 01:33:07.040
Phil: It could be Toge.
01:33:07.500 --> 01:33:08.440
Phil: It could be Toge.
01:33:09.020 --> 01:33:10.080
Phil: Or it could be Togue.
01:33:10.300 --> 01:33:11.540
Phil: It's spelled T-O-G-E.
01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:13.420
Tom: It could be Tuge.
01:33:15.620 --> 01:33:17.420
Phil: They're an Indonesian-based developer.
01:33:17.680 --> 01:33:21.980
Phil: I listened to an interview with them prior to this.
01:33:23.380 --> 01:33:24.160
Phil: And good on them.
01:33:24.180 --> 01:33:25.900
Phil: I mean, Indonesia is a big country.
01:33:27.680 --> 01:33:37.820
Phil: And, you know, they're basically single-handedly developing a game development culture and community in Indonesia, which is to be credited.
01:33:38.460 --> 01:33:43.760
Phil: Coffee Talk, having played through it, I never would have assumed it was made in Indonesia.
01:33:44.960 --> 01:33:58.380
Phil: I was so interested by this that I went and played a game called A Space for the Unbound, which is made by the same company, and found it to be, you know, an interesting game.
01:33:58.400 --> 01:33:59.620
Phil: It is actually free.
01:33:59.660 --> 01:34:01.080
Phil: It's the prologue.
01:34:01.720 --> 01:34:02.920
Phil: It is free on Steam.
01:34:03.200 --> 01:34:10.320
Phil: And so if you look up A Space for the Unbound, for podcast purposes, just remember Unbound, you'll find it.
01:34:10.340 --> 01:34:11.580
Phil: It's the only free game on Steam.
01:34:13.460 --> 01:34:14.280
Phil: With that name.
01:34:14.640 --> 01:34:20.520
Phil: And yeah, so Coffee Talk is basically a work simulator.
01:34:21.380 --> 01:34:25.140
Phil: We both played that cyberpunk bartender game Valhalla.
01:34:26.500 --> 01:34:28.140
Phil: I believe you played that one, right?
01:34:29.040 --> 01:34:29.360
Tom: Yes.
01:34:29.460 --> 01:34:33.080
Phil: And basically it pretty much is identical to that.
01:34:33.100 --> 01:34:35.220
Phil: Oh, hello.
01:34:35.240 --> 01:34:37.540
Phil: Di of Destiny speaking prematurely.
01:34:37.560 --> 01:34:38.020
Phil: Is that a premature...
01:34:39.480 --> 01:34:40.860
Tom: Premature role there.
01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:42.600
Phil: Yeah, what was it incidentally?
01:34:43.460 --> 01:34:45.000
Tom: I think it was a one.
01:34:45.100 --> 01:34:45.940
Phil: Oh, okay.
01:34:45.960 --> 01:34:47.860
Phil: Well, we'll see if that improves along the way.
01:34:49.120 --> 01:35:11.400
Phil: So if you take Valhalla, which was the cyberpunk cocktail game where you had to memorize how to make certain cocktails to match your guest's taste and mood, Coffee Talk is pretty much the same thing set in a coffee shop with the aesthetic of the Netflix TV show or the NHK TV show Midnight Diner.
01:35:11.900 --> 01:35:17.080
Phil: Now, I talked about Midnight Diner, which if you have Netflix, please go and watch.
01:35:17.100 --> 01:35:18.300
Phil: The first season was great.
01:35:18.660 --> 01:35:19.700
Phil: Season 2 sucked.
01:35:21.500 --> 01:35:21.900
Phil: But I'm...
01:35:22.080 --> 01:35:23.480
Tom: What about the remake?
01:35:23.500 --> 01:35:28.100
Phil: Well, they have the Midnight Diner Tokyo Stories I haven't got into yet.
01:35:29.280 --> 01:35:31.140
Phil: But if you...
01:35:31.160 --> 01:35:37.240
Phil: Midnight Diner watched the first couple of episodes out of the first season, maybe the first four.
01:35:38.240 --> 01:35:44.500
Phil: But I was watching it season 3 last night, episode 7, and that one is amazing.
01:35:44.860 --> 01:35:57.020
Phil: Like, if you can go from season 1 of Midnight Diner and then just jump ahead to season 3, episode 7, you'll be greatly advantaged by missing season 2.
01:35:57.200 --> 01:35:59.020
Phil: So there is still some greatness there.
01:36:00.020 --> 01:36:08.800
Phil: So basically in that TV show and in Coffee Talk, you play the role of a nameless person behind the counter.
01:36:09.340 --> 01:36:11.820
Phil: People come in and tell you their stories.
01:36:12.960 --> 01:36:22.720
Phil: The main co-character, I guess, or co-protagonist is a writer for a newspaper who is writing her first fictional book.
01:36:23.340 --> 01:36:30.140
Phil: And surprise, surprise, it's based on the people who come to this coffee shop every night.
01:36:32.160 --> 01:36:45.200
Phil: And basically, it's set on planet Earth in Seattle, but it has a whole bunch of fantasy-type characters involved with it, fantasy and aliens.
01:36:45.200 --> 01:36:58.780
Phil: So basically, fantasy characters and aliens are living on Earth, and everyone's cool with that and normal with it, and basically treating these different species as if they were just different genders or different sexual preferences.
01:37:00.620 --> 01:37:11.780
Phil: And you go through basic learning, you know, who the different people are, what their various interactions are, and you can implement that in a very slight manner.
01:37:12.800 --> 01:37:19.980
Phil: Graphically, if you're familiar with the game Papers, Please, it takes its cue from that.
01:37:20.100 --> 01:37:22.120
Tom: It's certainly higher fidelity than that.
01:37:22.140 --> 01:37:23.640
Phil: Yeah, higher fidelity, certainly.
01:37:24.160 --> 01:37:25.280
Tom: But less charming.
01:37:25.300 --> 01:37:26.000
Phil: Less charming.
01:37:26.480 --> 01:37:34.080
Phil: And as a work simulator, you basically have to give these people different coffees based on what they ask for and their cues.
01:37:34.360 --> 01:37:38.000
Phil: And there's four or five different stages of that.
01:37:38.380 --> 01:37:42.080
Phil: And you're unlocking new recipes of coffees as you go.
01:37:42.700 --> 01:37:48.100
Phil: So the gameplay is memorization, pattern recognition.
01:37:48.860 --> 01:37:53.460
Phil: It's hard to screw up, or you can't screw up the actual implementation.
01:37:53.480 --> 01:37:59.300
Phil: It's more about screwing up the interpretation and memorization of what each character likes to drink.
01:38:00.180 --> 01:38:03.000
Tom: Or you can get the ingredients wrong or in the wrong order.
01:38:03.020 --> 01:38:03.520
Phil: That's true.
01:38:03.540 --> 01:38:07.260
Phil: And that's where I'd call the memorization component of it.
01:38:07.880 --> 01:38:16.120
Phil: It's not like there's an actual physical characteristic to it if you didn't press up at the right time or down at the right time, you know, or this or that.
01:38:18.980 --> 01:38:19.300
Phil: Yeah.
01:38:19.320 --> 01:38:22.700
Phil: So what were your impressions of the game and did you play it all the way through?
01:38:22.720 --> 01:38:48.820
Tom: Well, based on the numerous Indonesians on Sky who I know, I actually found it to be very Indonesian because many of them tend to be an interesting combination of the prevailing liberal expression in the Anglosphere.
01:38:49.180 --> 01:38:52.180
Tom: And we can't say the West because it is certainly different in France.
01:38:54.040 --> 01:39:07.120
Tom: Of everyone is really nice and polite and liberal in their toleration of others and that this should all be overtly done, etc.
01:39:07.140 --> 01:39:07.340
Tom: etc.
01:39:08.700 --> 01:39:25.160
Tom: But with in stark contrast, without necessarily having an aggressive issue with people who might diverge from this, much more conservative values on certain interactions.
01:39:25.180 --> 01:39:42.260
Tom: For instance, in this game which has very obvious anti-racist themes, there's an elf and a succubus dating much to the horror of their two families, as an example.
01:39:44.320 --> 01:39:56.900
Tom: But then you have the writer character who is, there's a certain scene there where everyone assumes she must be promiscuous, but in fact she isn't, and that's a good thing.
01:39:57.180 --> 01:40:25.500
Tom: And while it isn't explicitly suggesting that that's not necessarily a good thing, elsewhere there's also the astronaut, and learning how to date correctly, et cetera, et cetera, is very important, and I would argue presented in a more conservative manner than you would find in an American or English or Australian game with similar themes and setting.
01:40:27.620 --> 01:40:33.520
Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's a very, correct me immediately if I'm wrong, it's a very politically correct game.
01:40:34.920 --> 01:40:37.200
Tom: Yep.
01:40:37.620 --> 01:41:03.300
Tom: But with that important difference, which is what I think gives it an Indonesian feel in that it is very socially liberal, yet in terms of its attitude and interaction with other people, yet in terms of its social values, it is also quite conservative, which makes for an interesting combination.
01:41:03.420 --> 01:41:28.000
Phil: It's a good combination because it has a realistic projection of these things, because otherwise you wouldn't have that conflict, you wouldn't have that fulcrum between even questioning whether something is right or wrong, because in our culture, you can't question these kinds of topics without being a complete racist, right?
01:41:28.240 --> 01:41:30.320
Phil: Or being judged as being a complete racist.
01:41:32.280 --> 01:41:37.260
Tom: I don't know, I think it depends on the games or stories.
01:41:37.280 --> 01:41:40.720
Tom: You would need to go on, get specific examples.
01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:53.620
Tom: And when you buy the same token, it's very easy to accuse political correctness of being racist as well in its approach to such matters.
01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:54.100
Phil: Of course.
01:41:54.420 --> 01:42:06.280
Tom: So I think the difference is by having two contrasting visions as the default, it automatically results in a greater level of nuance.
01:42:06.300 --> 01:42:06.880
Phil: Absolutely.
01:42:07.240 --> 01:42:18.800
Tom: But I think that nuance actually is there within either the right-wing vision of today or the liberal vision of today.
01:42:19.500 --> 01:42:29.000
Tom: It's just that it is ignored, other than as even as something to attack hypocritically, it's not really properly elaborated on.
01:42:29.020 --> 01:42:40.460
Tom: For instance, one of the critiques of things like, what's the term for conscious consent, is it?
01:42:40.480 --> 01:43:15.200
Tom: The thing where you're meant to constantly affirming consent in any affirming sexual interaction, or that regret in an interaction might constitute some form of sexual assault or rape, a common conservative critique of that is that this is hypocritical because it obviously is a position that is fundamentally viewing sex as a dangerous thing, yet simultaneously many people with those views are very sex positive elsewhere.
01:43:15.440 --> 01:43:33.780
Tom: But it's only approached as something to attack on the point of hypocrisy, not as an interesting juxtaposition of a single position that has a contradiction within it.
01:43:34.680 --> 01:43:42.260
Tom: That may indeed not be contradictory if you continue to explore that nuance, but it's only considered something to be attacked.
01:43:42.860 --> 01:43:47.960
Tom: And obviously, I don't mean that that's just a right-wing thing looking for that in the other side.
01:43:48.140 --> 01:43:49.800
Tom: Obviously that applies both ways.
01:43:50.200 --> 01:44:01.500
Tom: And then the only explanation for it is merely, well, this comes out of the sexual revolution without analyzing how that would actually lead to that.
01:44:01.740 --> 01:44:11.320
Tom: Beyond, well, actually people don't want to be promiscuous and everyone regrets sex that is not vindicated by society.
01:44:11.520 --> 01:44:13.740
Tom: Therefore, you have to adopt our views.
01:44:13.740 --> 01:44:19.280
Tom: And again, that's an example rather than meant to be highlighting one particular side.
01:44:21.280 --> 01:44:32.940
Tom: So I think if you are willing to take those, to explore these ideas in the Anglosphere, I think there is that level of nuance.
01:44:33.320 --> 01:44:43.000
Tom: But most critics and a lot of artists in how they want to express these things are less interested in doing that.
01:44:43.300 --> 01:45:08.660
Tom: If you were to take the same sort of content, the same sort of positions that are in Coffee Talk, and vulgarize them in the way that a lot of Anglosphere art does today, you would end up with something that is the same just with a slightly different juxtaposition of seemingly contradictory ideas to it.
01:45:09.020 --> 01:45:11.900
Phil: I mean, that is extremely well articulated.
01:45:12.020 --> 01:45:17.880
Phil: So we're talking about a visual novel game, single player, Coffee Talk.
01:45:18.040 --> 01:45:22.220
Phil: It's available on Windows, Mac, Switch, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
01:45:25.500 --> 01:45:47.280
Phil: Looking at the character of Neil, who is an alien dressed up like a NASA astronaut, who is basically coming down to the planet to impregnate as many women as he can, which is interesting, because he's not really a male or a female, but he's a...
01:45:48.520 --> 01:45:50.860
Tom: Or rather one, the correct one.
01:45:50.860 --> 01:45:51.240
Phil: Right.
01:45:52.100 --> 01:45:56.400
Tom: But to get there, he has to first work out how the mating rituals in humans works.
01:45:56.780 --> 01:46:02.980
Phil: So looking at the different characters though, I mean, you've got a young...
01:46:03.840 --> 01:47:01.880
Tom: And that, by the way, is a good example where if you are willing to not vulgarize something, just totally emphasizing contradictions, that it results in an interesting nuance because it reveals the potential problem with the prevailing view that is presented in the game, which is that obviously everyone should be tolerating one another, but ultimately it is a good thing, for example, that the writer is in fact not promiscuous, even though she seems to, yet simultaneously Neil is facing a problem where not having poor social skills, to be able to get to a point where he can successfully conform to this society's idea of sexual interaction, his only way to do that is by being promiscuous.
01:47:03.220 --> 01:47:12.680
Phil: Oh boy, you know, you could write a thousand essays on this game, but at the same time, I'm going to throw up there, is it not a simplistic kind of thing?
01:47:12.700 --> 01:47:23.080
Phil: Because you've got A, a plot line where you've got interracial relationship where both families disagree with the relationship.
01:47:24.180 --> 01:47:31.880
Phil: You've got Neil, who is someone who wants to be promiscuous, but is having trouble being promiscuous.
01:47:34.300 --> 01:47:42.340
Tom: Or wants to be monogamous, but can only become so through learning from promiscuous.
01:47:42.360 --> 01:47:54.660
Phil: And then you've got the only other major character arc that goes on is the father-daughter relationship where the daughter is some sort of pop star and he's looking out for her.
01:47:55.980 --> 01:47:58.900
Phil: So like these are very tired kinds of things.
01:47:58.920 --> 01:48:02.660
Phil: Other than Neils, the whole interracial thing, the whole...
01:48:02.700 --> 01:48:04.840
Tom: Which is also a big cliché.
01:48:05.580 --> 01:48:09.500
Tom: It's just usually more of a solely comical thing.
01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:10.320
Phil: Yeah, fair enough.
01:48:12.380 --> 01:48:15.460
Phil: But these are pretty tired tropes.
01:48:15.480 --> 01:48:26.440
Phil: So why would they be engaging to someone as, you know, engaged as you are in literature, such that you've read 425 books and 66 books this year?
01:48:28.940 --> 01:48:37.720
Tom: Well, as I said, I think being Indonesian offers an interesting take on those clichés.
01:48:38.220 --> 01:48:41.940
Tom: The only problem with the cliché is if the cliché is cliché.
01:48:42.820 --> 01:48:45.160
Phil: And there goes the Diadestiny again.
01:48:45.180 --> 01:48:46.400
Tom: Again, I just got excited.
01:48:46.420 --> 01:48:47.640
Phil: Another premature...
01:48:47.660 --> 01:48:48.880
Tom: That was up to a six.
01:48:50.180 --> 01:48:51.060
Tom: It's rising.
01:48:52.280 --> 01:48:55.000
Tom: Each role grows in force.
01:48:57.200 --> 01:48:58.240
Phil: Too much dialogue.
01:48:58.520 --> 01:49:00.420
Phil: The game has too much dialogue.
01:49:00.560 --> 01:49:01.560
Phil: The game was too long.
01:49:01.580 --> 01:49:03.160
Phil: That's my only criticisms of it.
01:49:04.120 --> 01:49:04.760
Phil: I thought that...
01:49:05.280 --> 01:49:05.940
Tom: I would agree.
01:49:06.200 --> 01:49:09.100
Phil: The coffee mechanic was good.
01:49:09.600 --> 01:49:11.000
Phil: I thought the characters were good.
01:49:12.120 --> 01:49:12.580
Phil: I thought...
01:49:12.620 --> 01:49:24.700
Tom: I also wish that you had, as far as the coffee mechanic is concerned, I think it would have been potentially more interesting and added a layer of puzzle solving.
01:49:25.740 --> 01:49:43.200
Tom: If you had a recipe book of the coffees that had everything unlocked in it to begin with, and from what the characters ask for, you have to figure out the relevant recipe rather than doing it through figuring out the ingredients.
01:49:43.220 --> 01:49:44.040
Phil: Yeah, absolutely.
01:49:44.040 --> 01:49:49.240
Phil: There's only one right answer, and you basically unlock recipes as you go.
01:49:49.300 --> 01:49:52.740
Phil: It would have been good to basically go beyond that.
01:49:53.040 --> 01:50:03.680
Phil: And I think that whoever came up with the mechanic for this game got short-circuited or victimized by the people who were writing the visual novel component of it.
01:50:04.040 --> 01:50:13.460
Phil: And for future games, if you guys are listening, listen to your game mechanics guys a bit more and pull back on the visual novel.
01:50:13.500 --> 01:50:14.880
Phil: Anyone can write a visual novel.
01:50:15.400 --> 01:50:19.260
Phil: God knows, me and Tom have done it quite a few times, haven't published any of them yet.
01:50:20.720 --> 01:50:27.180
Phil: But the game mechanic was good and it could have been better explored.
01:50:27.460 --> 01:50:33.140
Phil: I think that it was deeper than the player actually gets to engage with it.
01:50:33.300 --> 01:50:43.080
Tom: There's also, for instance, a surprisingly effective coffee drawing minigame that you can do for latte art.
01:50:44.020 --> 01:50:47.640
Tom: But it's never actually needed for anything in the game.
01:50:47.680 --> 01:50:51.400
Phil: I won't say what most of my coffee art looked like, but you were...
01:50:52.520 --> 01:50:56.860
Tom: I think similar to the illustrations of your visual novel.
01:50:57.140 --> 01:50:57.860
Phil: Exactly.
01:50:58.660 --> 01:51:00.640
Phil: And you know what?
01:51:01.680 --> 01:51:05.100
Phil: The character art was great, and the extras are great in this game.
01:51:05.120 --> 01:51:07.640
Phil: They've got visual novels for every character.
01:51:08.500 --> 01:51:13.880
Phil: Just really, there's a lot of positivity to be said about this game.
01:51:14.700 --> 01:51:24.100
Tom: It's even got, for example, the short stories of the writer character in the game as well, that she publishes in the newspaper she works for.
01:51:24.120 --> 01:51:25.660
Phil: Yeah, which is great.
01:51:25.720 --> 01:51:28.540
Phil: So overall, it's a good game.
01:51:28.560 --> 01:51:29.820
Phil: It's worth experiencing.
01:51:30.700 --> 01:51:31.740
Phil: Could have been done better.
01:51:31.940 --> 01:51:38.420
Phil: It certainly enticed me enough to play through a space for The Unbound, the prologue for the other game.
01:51:39.080 --> 01:51:50.260
Phil: And anytime you've got a prolific or even burgeoning game developer coming from a country other than the usual suspects, they're worth looking at.
01:51:50.280 --> 01:51:58.400
Phil: And that's Toge or Toge, or Toge, or Togi Productions, T-O-G-E.
01:51:58.520 --> 01:52:00.440
Phil: Look them up.
01:52:00.460 --> 01:52:06.200
Phil: They are to be commended, I mean, for this level of quality, I feel.
01:52:07.540 --> 01:52:10.480
Tom: And none of my Indonesian friends had heard of it.
01:52:11.080 --> 01:52:12.420
Phil: Well, spread the news.
01:52:12.760 --> 01:52:13.540
Phil: Spread the news.
01:52:14.740 --> 01:52:15.240
Phil: Okay.
01:52:15.260 --> 01:52:17.080
Tom: We're ready for the dice roll of destiny.
01:52:17.360 --> 01:52:18.680
Tom: Finally the third.
01:52:18.700 --> 01:52:20.800
Phil: We'll see what you've got left after a six.
01:52:20.920 --> 01:52:22.000
Tom: And final roll.
01:52:22.060 --> 01:52:25.520
Tom: Yeah.
01:52:25.540 --> 01:52:30.540
Tom: Sadly, that was one time too many, and it's only a three for the third roll.
01:52:30.640 --> 01:52:31.460
Phil: Already spent.
01:52:31.580 --> 01:52:32.420
Phil: That's what I thought.
01:52:32.480 --> 01:52:32.780
Tom: Yeah.
01:52:34.480 --> 01:52:36.680
Phil: I gave the game a six and a half.
01:52:37.140 --> 01:52:39.500
Phil: So, for my own...
01:52:39.580 --> 01:52:42.220
Tom: That's a nine and a half out of 20.
01:52:42.320 --> 01:52:42.580
Phil: Yep.
01:52:42.920 --> 01:52:44.500
Phil: Which is about right, probably.
01:52:44.520 --> 01:52:45.340
Phil: Sad to say.
01:52:47.060 --> 01:52:49.000
Phil: So, with that, we've got to close out the show.
01:52:49.020 --> 01:52:50.880
Phil: We didn't even get to talk about Mind Scanners.
01:52:51.660 --> 01:52:53.660
Phil: We didn't get to talk about Mind Scanners.
01:52:54.520 --> 01:52:57.180
Tom: We forgot Mind Scanners somehow.
01:52:57.560 --> 01:53:01.920
Tom: There is some psychological analysis there.
01:53:01.980 --> 01:53:03.780
Phil: We didn't get to talk about Not Tonight.
01:53:04.380 --> 01:53:12.580
Phil: We didn't get to talk about Rocket League Splatoon 2, Game Dev Story, and many other things that we've been playing.
01:53:13.460 --> 01:53:14.880
Phil: So, unfortunately...
01:53:14.900 --> 01:53:17.520
Tom: Did you, in fact, have anything to say about Mind Scanners?
01:53:17.640 --> 01:53:18.300
Phil: I love it.
01:53:18.480 --> 01:53:19.480
Phil: I thought it was great.
01:53:19.600 --> 01:53:20.760
Phil: I particularly...
01:53:21.440 --> 01:53:32.380
Phil: We'll talk about it more at length, but I particularly like the first element of the game where you have to read the people's dialogue and then come up with the right answer from a multi-choice.
01:53:33.460 --> 01:53:38.580
Phil: As we all know from kind words, I'm an armchair psychologist.
01:53:38.860 --> 01:53:42.700
Phil: I did quite a few uni courses towards a psychology degree.
01:53:44.300 --> 01:53:45.280
Phil: And I...
01:53:45.500 --> 01:53:48.720
Tom: Sadly, this explains a lot about you, I'm afraid to say.
01:53:48.740 --> 01:53:49.520
Phil: Yeah, I know.
01:53:50.040 --> 01:53:58.960
Phil: And I nailed that component of it, but then when it came to the puzzle component of it, where you're trying to heal the people, I fried all their brains and failed.
01:53:59.940 --> 01:54:04.140
Tom: Sounds a lot like the experience of a psychologist.
01:54:04.160 --> 01:54:05.180
Phil: Yeah, absolutely.
01:54:05.200 --> 01:54:14.960
Phil: You basically set people up with the false hope that they're cured when in fact you haven't done anything other than take their money and tell them after 50 minutes, well, I'm afraid that's all the time we've got today.
01:54:16.460 --> 01:54:18.880
Phil: But we can talk about that very soon.
01:54:20.380 --> 01:54:27.380
Phil: But Not Tonight is a game from Panic Bam, published by No More Robots.
01:54:27.440 --> 01:54:28.720
Phil: What did No More Robots do?
01:54:29.060 --> 01:54:30.560
Phil: They've done something else, haven't they?
01:54:32.400 --> 01:54:32.980
Tom: No idea.
01:54:33.280 --> 01:54:35.400
Phil: Oh, no, that's not Tonight.
01:54:35.900 --> 01:54:37.520
Phil: Actually, you're talking about Mind Scanners.
01:54:39.340 --> 01:54:40.940
Phil: And it's a beta.
01:54:41.100 --> 01:54:48.400
Tom: No More Robots have done other similarly dystopian indie titles, I believe.
01:54:49.420 --> 01:54:50.240
Phil: We can get into that.
01:54:50.240 --> 01:54:56.120
Phil: Mind Scanners, the beta, it's probably closed at this point anyway, so we've got plenty of time to talk about that in the future.
01:54:56.440 --> 01:55:01.120
Tom: They did say they may be releasing another demo at some point in the future.
01:55:01.120 --> 01:55:04.700
Tom: If they do, definitely go check it out.
01:55:04.720 --> 01:55:21.280
Tom: The only thing I would add to what Phil has said, because it is a very short beta, is that visually, I think it is probably the best Papers, Please influenced game yet.
01:55:21.680 --> 01:55:26.400
Tom: Not necessarily better than Papers, Please, sorry, but the best following on from Papers, Please.
01:55:26.840 --> 01:55:39.780
Tom: The characters you're healing all have really distinct personalities that comes through, not just in their dialogue as they're doing the ink block test and you're diagnosing them.
01:55:39.800 --> 01:55:40.000
Phil: Rorschach.
01:55:41.360 --> 01:55:45.720
Tom: But also, same thing, but also what they look like.
01:55:47.500 --> 01:55:58.080
Tom: And the music really gets the totalitarian vibes that lie latent in Vaporwave out of it really well.
01:55:58.760 --> 01:56:23.320
Tom: And the gameplay where you're healing them is really simple mini games where you're basically just either doing a tiny bit of puzzle solving, some more complicated machines like moving a wheel at the right speed or lining up certain frequencies on a spectrographic thing and things like that.
01:56:23.840 --> 01:56:33.340
Tom: And currently, that's a bit awkward because they don't really give you much instruction on how to use them properly.
01:56:33.560 --> 01:56:35.700
Phil: It's not just Phil Fogg then, okay, that's good.
01:56:35.900 --> 01:56:36.200
Tom: No.
01:56:36.600 --> 01:56:41.460
Tom: So you have to figure that out yourself, but the time limit per day is really limited.
01:56:41.460 --> 01:56:50.280
Tom: So if you're using a machine that you don't know how to use, that will probably eat up the entirety of your day as you're attempting to heal them.
01:56:50.300 --> 01:56:55.820
Tom: But again, that's very similar to the experience of a real psychologist.
01:56:56.060 --> 01:56:57.060
Phil: Yeah, that's true.
01:56:57.080 --> 01:57:11.400
Tom: All in all, all in all, I think it was, I think it's a really promising work simulator and certainly the one that has engrossed me the most since Papers, Please.
01:57:11.420 --> 01:57:29.020
Tom: And I really think the psychological aspect of it, one, makes the totalitarian setting so much more interesting, and two, really sets it apart from all other work simulators, including Papers, Please.
01:57:29.220 --> 01:57:47.520
Tom: But rather than the hook of Papers, Please being the high moral stakes in it, the personal stakes in this really push it over the edge and give it that something special that Papers, Please has, but no other work simulators as yet have quite achieved.
01:57:47.580 --> 01:57:48.240
Phil: Absolutely.
01:57:48.700 --> 01:57:50.760
Phil: Mind scanners is in beta.
01:57:50.780 --> 01:57:57.060
Phil: If you are lucky enough to act quickly and hook a copy of the game, get into it in a hurry.
01:57:57.160 --> 01:57:59.100
Phil: Developed by a company called The Outer Zone.
01:57:59.120 --> 01:58:02.500
Phil: I don't know anything about them, but it's a great game.
01:58:02.700 --> 01:58:15.300
Phil: I still think that Not Tonight is better in some ways, but Mind Scanners is superior in a very special way, and certainly worthy of quick examination.
01:58:15.400 --> 01:58:20.740
Phil: But as I said, it's in beta now, so we'll be able to talk about that in great detail in the future.
01:58:20.900 --> 01:58:50.580
Tom: The last thing I will add on Mind Scanners, just again on the interaction between the totalitarian setting and the psychology, is something humorous I've noticed so far, and I wonder will be worked into the plot, or is merely a coincidence, is that all the characters who are behaving deviantly are the ones who are insane, in that if you do not cure them of their insanity, then they will do something bad.
01:58:50.780 --> 01:59:02.600
Tom: Whereas all the ones who are not behaving deviantly, even if they have insane ideas, are the sane ones who you can safely allow to go about their business with their personality unaffected.
01:59:02.940 --> 01:59:10.760
Phil: Which for Phil Fogg is awesome, because I can go through these and go, yeah, that person's insane.
01:59:10.780 --> 01:59:12.600
Phil: No, that person's not insane.
01:59:12.840 --> 01:59:13.640
Phil: But you know what?
01:59:13.680 --> 01:59:23.840
Phil: Every time I declared someone sane, I was waiting for the game to come back and swat me, because, you know, it's an authoritarian world.
01:59:23.940 --> 01:59:27.000
Phil: So, you know, here's someone who's thinking independently.
01:59:27.020 --> 01:59:30.360
Phil: Yeah, they're slightly off-kilter, but you know what?
01:59:30.380 --> 01:59:31.040
Phil: They're sane.
01:59:31.440 --> 01:59:34.040
Phil: And I kept waiting for the game to hit me.
01:59:35.080 --> 01:59:56.680
Phil: But there was a couple of characters there, like the Catwoman, without a spoiler, where I took it to quite the brink, where it's like, no, you know, this person's, yeah, it's a little bit weird, but yeah, you know, and ultimately my acceptance of her weirdness worked against me.
01:59:58.000 --> 02:00:00.020
Tom: Well, you'll see the other interesting thing about...
02:00:00.040 --> 02:00:12.540
Tom: I think one of the things that I like about that is is that most of the deviant behavior was also the natural behavior of what one might expect a totalitarian society to be doing.
02:00:12.560 --> 02:00:13.320
Phil: Yes, yeah.
02:00:13.680 --> 02:00:18.000
Phil: No, it's a great beta, let's hope they turn it into a great game.
02:00:18.780 --> 02:00:27.100
Phil: For the next episode, homework for the listeners is to go out and play Not Tonight, another work simulator.
02:00:28.760 --> 02:00:37.480
Phil: I've got a code from you for the PC, I loved it so much I went out and bought it for the Switch, and I've got various things to say about that.
02:00:38.500 --> 02:00:49.660
Phil: But before we close out the show entirely, is there any trademark banter you want to hit on, just as a last little treat for our listeners?
02:00:50.420 --> 02:00:54.040
Tom: Well, I recently tried for the first time Mountain Dew.
02:00:57.240 --> 02:00:57.500
Tom: What?
02:00:57.520 --> 02:01:13.340
Tom: Well, Mountain Dew, unlike in America gaming circles, at least in my lifetime, it's not like Sprite or Fanta or 7-Up or Coca-Cola, it's an obscure thing like Dr Pepper.
02:01:13.360 --> 02:01:16.460
Phil: Yeah, but over the last four years, you can buy Mountain Dew in the stores.
02:01:16.780 --> 02:01:20.560
Phil: They don't sell diet Mountain Dew, which is the real thing.
02:01:21.200 --> 02:01:23.740
Phil: They sell the normal crap Mountain Dew.
02:01:23.760 --> 02:01:30.740
Tom: Well, I also rarely drink soft drinks, particularly the last several years.
02:01:30.760 --> 02:01:38.880
Phil: Mountain Dew also has a line called Code Red, which is disgusting, but also simultaneously addictive.
02:01:40.180 --> 02:01:41.660
Tom: And I've got to ask you a question.
02:01:41.680 --> 02:01:46.220
Tom: It said energize on the packaging spelt correctly as well.
02:01:46.240 --> 02:01:52.500
Tom: So full credit to Mountain Dew for not engaging in cultural imperialism.
02:01:54.040 --> 02:01:57.700
Phil: And energize is a different strain of Mountain Dew.
02:01:58.040 --> 02:01:58.960
Tom: That's what I was asking.
02:01:58.980 --> 02:02:01.680
Tom: So this is in fact different to the standard Mountain Dew.
02:02:01.700 --> 02:02:04.720
Phil: This is the energy drink version of it.
02:02:05.520 --> 02:02:16.640
Tom: Because I found it as a result of that to be superior to what I imagine Mountain Dew would be like, not that I've tried it, because it was not disgustingly sweet.
02:02:17.700 --> 02:02:28.920
Tom: It was very limey and actually had a little bit of acidity to it and did not overpower the palate with sugar in a way that many soft drinks do.
02:02:28.940 --> 02:02:37.700
Phil: Traditional Mountain Dew has a flat salty kind of taste to it, more than a sweet.
02:02:38.380 --> 02:02:45.740
Phil: And it's liked by gamers because before energy drinks, Mountain Dew had the highest level of caffeine in it.
02:02:48.460 --> 02:02:56.420
Tom: But that wasn't enough, so they've now gone to the next level.
02:02:56.460 --> 02:03:05.900
Phil: I'm not going to misspeak here in terms of the milligrams of caffeine, but Mountain Dew used to be something that kept me alive, that's for sure.
02:03:06.960 --> 02:03:13.520
Phil: Okay, well with that, Tom Towers, thank you for joining us on episode 133 of The Game Under Podcast.
02:03:13.880 --> 02:03:16.320
Phil: We went through some great games tonight.
02:03:16.400 --> 02:03:21.960
Phil: We talked about Cyber Punk 2077, The Medium, Mind Scanners, Space Court.
02:03:22.240 --> 02:03:23.120
Phil: Am I missing anything?
02:03:23.120 --> 02:03:23.840
Phil: Coffee Talk.
02:03:25.540 --> 02:03:30.800
Phil: All games, I think we would say, if we can't recommend them, they're at least worth playing if you've got the right.
02:03:30.840 --> 02:03:32.460
Tom: And many of them we would recommend.
02:03:35.240 --> 02:03:36.800
Phil: The Medium, still on the fence.
02:03:39.540 --> 02:03:41.440
Tom: But a potentially promising start.
02:03:41.460 --> 02:03:41.920
Phil: Definitely.
02:03:43.500 --> 02:03:49.380
Tom: But we will end with a random poem by Jose Martin.
02:03:49.400 --> 02:03:50.020
Phil: Okay, here we go.
02:03:50.040 --> 02:03:50.820
Phil: One of his limericks.
02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:56.300
Tom: I'll let the audience judge whether this is a Mark Twain style aphorism.
02:03:56.320 --> 02:04:00.940
Phil: There was a young lady from Cuba who had an enormously large tuba.
02:04:00.960 --> 02:04:01.020
Tom: Tuba.
02:04:01.260 --> 02:04:01.900
Tom: Tuba.
02:04:02.100 --> 02:04:03.640
Phil: When you blew in one end...
02:04:03.660 --> 02:04:06.820
Phil: That's all I can come up with, sorry.
02:04:09.400 --> 02:04:10.460
Phil: You could always depend...
02:04:12.100 --> 02:04:13.900
Tom: No, her whole body would bend.
02:04:14.300 --> 02:04:16.840
Phil: And you'd end up with a massive tumor.
02:04:17.160 --> 02:04:18.140
Phil: It's not a tumor.
02:04:19.320 --> 02:04:20.690
Tom: No, no, that...
02:04:20.690 --> 02:04:21.280
Tom: no.
02:04:22.260 --> 02:04:24.460
Tom: You ruined it at the ending there, I'm afraid to say.
02:04:26.460 --> 02:04:33.500
Tom: In a pitch dark alley where I stroll in darkness, I raise my eyes and see a church, stiff standing and remote.
02:04:34.120 --> 02:04:36.760
Tom: Is there some mystery, some power, revelation?
02:04:37.080 --> 02:04:39.520
Tom: Are you obliged my knee to genuflect?
02:04:39.880 --> 02:04:40.960
Tom: I wonder what it is.
02:04:41.500 --> 02:04:45.340
Tom: Night shimmers, a worm nibbles at the tendrils of a vine.
02:04:45.660 --> 02:04:49.860
Tom: Calling to autumn, the vein in sullen, cicada sings its songs.
02:04:50.540 --> 02:04:52.660
Tom: A pair is singing, intent on both.
02:04:53.040 --> 02:04:57.960
Tom: I raise my eyes and see that the church of my stroll has the form of an owl.
02:04:59.460 --> 02:05:02.420
Phil: So that sounds to me like someone who's a closeted homosexual.
02:05:03.900 --> 02:05:04.860
Phil: He looks towards the...
02:05:05.120 --> 02:05:06.180
Tom: Like Mark Twain.
02:05:07.820 --> 02:05:08.980
Tom: It's one of the better poems.
02:05:09.000 --> 02:05:18.380
Tom: The point is merely that I don't think that fits the description of aphoristic poetry of the Mark Twain poem.
02:05:18.400 --> 02:05:18.740
Phil: That's true.
02:05:18.760 --> 02:05:20.440
Phil: I couldn't figure out the whole owl thing.
02:05:21.300 --> 02:05:26.180
Phil: Okay, well thanks for that and we'll listen to you next time.
02:05:26.400 --> 02:05:27.600
Phil: But in opposite.
02:05:29.820 --> 02:05:30.780
Phil: I'm recording now.
02:05:31.720 --> 02:05:33.460
Phil: This is where I'm starting the recording.
02:05:35.100 --> 02:05:36.160
Phil: Hoo hoo!
02:05:36.180 --> 02:05:40.700
Phil: It's the special Christmas episode of The Game Under Podcast.
02:05:42.540 --> 02:05:44.000
Phil: Can you hear the music that I'm hearing?
02:05:44.520 --> 02:05:44.800
Tom: No.
02:05:47.740 --> 02:05:49.260
Phil: Hopefully it's playing somewhere.
02:05:51.020 --> 02:05:51.680
Tom: In your head.
02:05:54.780 --> 02:05:55.680
Phil: Oh, it's so wonderful.
02:05:56.800 --> 02:05:58.180
Phil: Are you familiar with the trigger?