Game Under Podcast 125

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Introduction
0:00:08 Back to Normal

First Impressions - Towers
0:01:46 Minecraft Dungeons
0:07:40 But What Does the ESRB Think?

First Impressions - Fogg
0:20:13 Diablo III for Switch (Diablo 3 for the SEO)

Tom Towers Reacts... the the NEWS!
0:23:21 Australia Drops the Hammer on Fallout 76
0:26:50 Sony About to Reveal Playstation 5
0:29:15 A-League's Future in Australia

First Impressions - Towers
0:32:27 Final Fantasy VII remake (Final Fantasy 7 for SEO) :P

Tom Towers Reacts... the the NEWS! Part Deux
0:45:45 Arcane Studios Documentary Reveals Half-Life Lost Episode

Trademark Banter
0:48:30 Microsoft Being Cool About Backward Compatibility
0:50:45 Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction

What's in the Box?!
0:52:55 Tom Reveals a Recent Purchase

First Impressions
1:17:30 Resident Evil 3 Remake Game Revisited
1:22:30 Journey from That Game Company

Final Impressions
1:38:30 Sky: Children of Light

Flashback
1:53:30 A Much Younger Tom and Phil Discuss Journey in 2013

Transcipt

Tom: Hello and welcome to episode 125 of the Game Under Podcast.

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Tom: I'm your host Tom Towers, and I'm joined by Phil Fogg to discuss the likes of Minecraft Dungeons, Resident Evil 3 and Final Fantasy VII.

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Tom: Are you flabbergasted by that level of up-to-date content?

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Phil: I am shocked and I'm bringing up the indie front.

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Phil: Are we talking about Death and Taxes and Beat Cop?

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Tom: As well as Journey and Sky.

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Phil: I'm shocked that we're just jumping straight into it though.

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Phil: I mean, we're in these unprecedented times.

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Phil: Don't we have something more globally impacting to talk about?

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Tom: Well, we do have, I think, some news perhaps.

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Phil: Are we still in the unprecedented times?

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Tom: I think so.

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Phil: Because I saw a bunch of riots and I didn't see a lot of social distancing.

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Phil: I saw a lot of face masks.

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Tom: Riots aren't unprecedented.

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Phil: Yeah, that means we're back to normal.

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Phil: That means we're back to normal.

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Phil: Everyone's looting and, you know.

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Tom: Masks are pretty popular at riots as well.

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Phil: Yeah, well, back from WTO riots back in Seattle back in the day.

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Tom: The conservative Democratic Party is back to following the Republicans' lead, I believe, with Joe Biden doing his best dementia impressions.

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Phil: Best what?

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Tom: Dementia impressions.

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Tom: Oh, yeah.

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Tom: So following on from Trump taking the lead.

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Phil: Yeah, yeah.

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Phil: Well, we all need 80-year-old presidents, that's for sure, in these unprecedented times.

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Phil: So, look, do you want to just jump straight into...

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Phil: I'm actually interested in what you have to say about Minecraft Dungeons, because I didn't think you had much exposure to the source material, Minecraft.

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Tom: I have, beyond my anecdote of being convinced that I bought a copy of it, and by this time, I'm not sure why I haven't pirated it to check it out on the basis that I bought it, but do not have access to the code.

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Tom: But beyond that, and watching clips of big Minecraft fans on YouTube, I do not really have any exposure to it, other than also the political beliefs of Notch.

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Tom: Beyond that, I have no exposure to Minecraft.

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Tom: My main interest in Minecraft was recent, with the release of the retraced version of it.

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Tom: But there is no retracing in Minecraft Dungeons, sadly.

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Phil: Okay, now with Minecraft, you've got Xbox Whatever Pass, Game Pass, so surely Minecraft is a part of that?

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Tom: No, but Minecraft Dungeons is.

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Phil: So you downloaded this, you played it on PC with a PlayStation 4 controller?

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Tom: With a mouse and keyboard.

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Tom: And this is the logical way to play it, because it is essentially a Diablo-style top-down RPG clickathon.

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Tom: And that just makes the most sense to play with a mouse and keyboard.

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Tom: You've got your hotkeys, a 1 to 3 for your special skills, you've got your potion button, and you click on things.

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Tom: So it works best with a mouse and keyboard.

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Tom: But it is tremendously simple and easy, so I can see that it will work perfectly fine with a controller.

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Tom: Essentially, the combat boils down to two things.

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Tom: If you are using ranged attacks, you simply need to spam arrows, which have a very hefty knockback effect, so that enemies never come close to you.

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Tom: And if you are using a sword, then you basically just need to face the enemy and spam attack, and they are then unable to hit you.

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Tom: Now, as you can raise the difficulty well beyond the recommended level, the enemies...

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Tom: the quantity seems to increase, and they also are much more dangerous, and seem to do a bit more damage, so that you end up having to combine your ranged and melee attacks, so that it isn't quite as mind-numbingly simple as it first appears, but it is still tremendously simple.

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Tom: They do make things a bit more interesting in the boss battles so far.

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Tom: For instance, one of the bosses is Enderman, named after the internet horror copypasta Slenderman, which is responsible for, I believe, one murder.

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Phil: Oh, only one murder.

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Phil: So obviously Minecraft has got a long way to go before it catches up with Pokemon Go.

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Tom: Well, Minecraft, I think, is responsible for zero murders.

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Tom: So until we get an Enderman-inspired stabbing, rather than a Slenderman-inspired boss, Minecraft is utterly pathetic and worthless when it comes to inspiring murderers.

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Phil: So just to take a step back...

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Tom: I was just going to say, the Enderman boss, for instance, makes things a little bit more interesting than the rest of the game, because unlike the standard enemies, where they do have a few different little tricks, which I'll get into in a minute, it does do something that requires a little bit more strategy and planning, because it can disappear and reappear behind you in a horror-enemy sort of style, so it requires a little bit more thought.

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Tom: And another boss that made things interesting was a cauldron, which summoned jelly monsters that had a lot of ranged attacks.

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Tom: So you essentially had to run around, avoiding them and sniping at the cauldron or running in to hit it.

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Tom: So in the boss battles, they make things a lot more interesting.

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Tom: In the standard dungeon crawl, although they do introduce enemies like spiders that if they hit you with a web, you get held in place.

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Tom: Enemies that can heal other enemies, drunkards who throw potions at you and things like that.

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Tom: It all really boils down to simply keeping your enemies at a safe distance until there's few enough of them that you can go in and hit them with the melee attacks.

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Tom: So I have never played Diablo in much detail, but compared to the top-down RPGs I'm familiar with, like Fallout, Planescape, Torment, Knox, which is much more like this, that's a much more arcadey one, it is really, really simple and doesn't appear to have much depth.

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Tom: The leveling system, for instance, so far, appears to consist of you upgrading, I think it's up to three enchantments on your weapon, so that's really simple as well.

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Phil: Okay, so just as soon as you said that there's some, first of all, that boss that you described sounds pretty much like a 3D Mario boss, one that disappears and reappears and summons other minor enemies.

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Tom: Yeah, the cauldron boss as well is very much in that sort of vein.

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Phil: I'm going to read you the, because that prompted me to look up the ESRB rating of this game, because usually any sort of alcohol consumption would push it into a teen rating, I believe.

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Tom: Well, they're technically drinking potions, I believe, but they're sort of stumbling around, shining, flashing red in a very blushing, sort of drunken, louse manner.

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Phil: This is how ESRB describes the game.

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Phil: This is a puzzle adventure game in which players mine pixelated landscapes to harvest stylized cube-like materials.

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Phil: From a first-person perspective, players traverse an open-world environment.

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Phil: Hang on a second.

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Phil: Is this the Minecraft?

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Phil: This is Minecraft.

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Tom: That's the wrong ESRB, I believe.

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Phil: Okay, sorry.

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Phil: Though not encouraged, we'll keep going.

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Phil: Though not encouraged, players can engage in violent acts such as lighting animals on fire and harming animals with weapons.

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Tom: I heard that as arming animals with weapons.

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Tom: I hope that was what it actually said.

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Tom: It probably wasn't.

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Phil: No.

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Phil: Mild explosions are occasionally heard as players use dynamite to fend off creatures.

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Phil: Now I've got a...

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Phil: Do you know what the Minecraft Dungeons ESRB is?

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Tom: My guess is gonna be PG?

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Phil: E10.

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Phil: E10, so E10+.

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Tom: So that would be equivalent to a G here.

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Phil: Yeah, and so the better...

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Phil: Here's the description.

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Phil: This is an action adventure game in which players lead an adventurer on a quest to save villages from an evil force.

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Phil: From a top-down perspective, is it top-down and isometric?

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Tom: Yes, it is.

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Phil: Okay, so players explore pixelated landscapes or stylized look like cubes.

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Phil: And it actually sounds tamer than the actual...

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Phil: Enemies generally collapse slash fall apart or disappear in puffs of smoke when defeated.

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Tom: I think they usually fall dying to the ground before they disappear.

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Phil: Now, I'm sorry, that might be a spoiler then for later levels.

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Tom: Potentially.

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Phil: Yep, so this is...

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Phil: Now, I'm actually playing...

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Phil: I'm pretty far into Diablo III on the Switch right now.

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Phil: So as you know from prior shows, I was a big fan of the Dark Alliance Baldur's Gate series that I played on PlayStation 2 and PSP.

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Phil: And I've never played Diablo until Diablo III on Switch.

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Phil: And I don't think I'll give impressions of it ever other than now, because everyone knows what Diablo III is.

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Phil: It's very, it's comfort food.

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Phil: But the thing that just puts it up separately from any of the other looter type games I've played of this nature is the extreme polish.

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Phil: Like the audio is great.

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Phil: The options are tremendous.

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Phil: The graphics are great.

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Phil: But really, when it comes down to it, it is very, it sticks very close to the formula.

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Phil: So in this game, do you have party members?

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Tom: Well, it is interesting that you bring up polish and presentation.

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Tom: And to answer your question, there is an online component to it.

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Tom: I've played every dungeon I've done so far online and no one has joined me.

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Tom: I've also attempted to join other players and found none.

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Tom: So I assume that there may be some issue on my end that I have to figure out a workaround to, as I did with Forza Horizon 4, before I could play it online.

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Tom: But it is designed for co-op.

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Tom: You can even do local co-op with, I believe, at least two players.

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Tom: I'm not sure if you can do it with more.

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Tom: The wording was slightly ambiguous, as I believe it said, please attach at least two controllers to play local co-op.

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Tom: So it is very much designed as a simple clickathon to play with friends.

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Tom: And the presentation is what stands out.

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Tom: As you said, you are attempting to save villagers, specifically they are indeed villagers, but they've been under the despotic rule of the arch illager who went mad with power of some sort.

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Tom: And the story is basically limited to tiny snippets of bite size dialogue at the beginning of narration, sorry, at the beginning of each level and at the end of each level.

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Tom: And as you're going through the level, you're sort of doing objectives related to what's going on in the story.

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Tom: So for instance, in one level, you may be trying to stop the magic production for the arch illager, that will be the cauldron level.

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Tom: So in that, the final boss is against the cauldron.

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Tom: And earlier than that, you are freeing villagers that have been caught in certain section of the village and things like that.

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Tom: But it is all presented very tongue and cheek, but in a really fun, again, simple manner.

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Tom: And the small snippets just fit perfectly to set the tone without being at all intrusive or living out its welcome as some sort of serious story that you have to pay a high degree of attention to in a good way.

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Tom: And the music is a perfect accompaniment.

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Tom: The sounds of the arrows and the sounds the enemies make, the sounds you're hitting enemies and the sounds of explosions are all great.

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Tom: The thing that really stands out, and you can really see how Minecraft became such a phenomenon, is it just looks amazing.

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Tom: It is on the level aesthetically of something like Lego.

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Tom: The best example of this is, obviously, everything is blocky, but it works so brilliantly where, as you're going through levels, one of the best, most offensive weapons you come across is blocks of TNT.

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Tom: So they're obviously blocky blocks of TNT.

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Tom: Yep, when you pick them up, they stack on your character's block head, and it is just absolutely brilliant.

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Tom: So this is my first exposure to Minecraft, and it is immediately apparent how it became such a massive phenomenon.

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Phil: I think everything is blocky was the beta version of Everything is Awesome for the Lego movie.

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Phil: Everything is blocky.

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Phil: Look, I was interested, Mojang developed it, but also it was co-developed with Double 11, and looking at their, they've been around since 2012.

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Phil: And they've kind of done ports, and they've done support work on a bunch of stuff, including Crackdown 3, hey, which I'm playing, and Prison Architect, which is very interesting.

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Phil: I've got to look into that.

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Phil: So it's good that this is a good, nice little reward from Microsoft.

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Phil: I wonder if Microsoft owns them at this point, if they're going to own them.

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Tom: I think they did buy them at some point, didn't they?

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Phil: I don't know.

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Phil: We'll find out or someone will tell us, but they're a company based out of the UK.

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Phil: I know Microsoft went through and bought up a whole bunch of studios.

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Phil: So this game reflects well on Minecraft.

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Tom: Fact check, Microsoft bought Mojang for $2.5 billion.

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Phil: Yeah, that's known.

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Phil: We had a big show about it.

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Phil: I'm talking about Double 11, the studio that worked with them.

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Phil: I think they're still independent, but they've worked on everything from Little Big Planet to Goat Simulator to Lego Harry Potter, as I said, Prison Architect and Crackdown 3, Pixel Junk Shooters.

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Phil: I love seeing little studios get a hand up and work on something of this magnitude because obviously it's going to sell like crazy.

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Phil: I was wondering if perhaps your lack of online players just means that this isn't big in Japan because of the time zone that we're in.

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Phil: You know, that's usually who we're playing with in the evenings at least.

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Tom: Surely Minecraft is big even in Japan?

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Phil: Yeah, I don't know.

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Phil: Xbox isn't, Microsoft isn't, PCs aren't particularly.

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Phil: Right, you think it's a universal appeal.

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Phil: Any, now in terms of, you've got your short arrows as your long range weapon, short range weapon I'm guessing is your pickaxe?

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Tom: Well, for me so far, all I've found is swords.

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Phil: Okay, because it would make sense that you would use a pickaxe.

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Tom: Yep.

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Phil: And is the environment destructible?

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Tom: Not that I've noticed at all.

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Tom: Okay.

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Tom: And just the last two gameplay things I forgot to mention is the potion mechanic is very interesting because essentially you have a, and this applies to your magic skills as well, your potion is a recharging potion, like regenerating health in a sense.

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Tom: So whenever you use a potion, it will eventually regenerate, meaning if you're low on health in a fight, but you don't have your potion to use, you can kind of run away and hide until it eventually regenerates.

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Tom: And your magic spells and special skills work like that as well, which is a more standard sort of thing.

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Tom: But it is interesting to see that applied to a potion mechanic, which essentially results in the sort of gameplay structure of regenerating health in a first-person shooter, where it is often beneficial to run away and hide if things have gone a bit wrong, where that isn't necessarily the case in a lot of top-down RPGs, or at least in the same way.

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Tom: And the other thing is that I think does not work as well as that, because that works really well with the simplicity of how the game works.

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Tom: What is, I think, a little bit disappointing is the levels are pretty big, but to get to the end, you can basically skip 50% of them.

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Tom: But the rewards for exploring so far are pretty meager.

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Tom: You will essentially end up with an overabundance of arrows, at least I have so far, whether you're exploring or not.

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Tom: And you get only a small amount extra emeralds, which is the currency in the game.

00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:06.960

Tom: If you go around exploring, looking for chests and even rarer loot in regards to armor and weapons that you find.

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Tom: So exploration is not very well rewarded so far, but that did seem to be improving with each dungeon.

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Tom: But so far, that is a pretty disappointing aspect to it.

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Tom: Just because the levels are so big compared to what you need to do, you would expect a better reward just beyond the XP of killing more enemies for actually exploring them.

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Phil: That's disappointing because yeah, the exploration is the other element of a looter.

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Phil: That's really, there's only two things with a looter.

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Phil: Story, if you include that, but obviously the looting and in the exploring.

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Phil: I'm hopeful that this will be a good entree for many people that have never played this style of game.

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Phil: If I was a development studio, I'd be building something right now for it to be a follow on to this.

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Phil: Nothing to do with Minecraft, of course, but something that would appeal to that same demographic of people who didn't experience this kind of game up until Minecraft gave it the exposure.

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Phil: Anyway, that's what I'd be doing.

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Phil: Is that it for Minecraft Dungeons?

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Tom: That is pretty much it.

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Phil: Okay, I'm gonna, if you don't mind, I'll just take a minute to just close out my Diablo III impressions on the Switch.

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Phil: Yeah, on the Switch, I was told that in the handheld mode, the text would not be a problem.

00:20:32.840 --> 00:20:36.300

Phil: It is not great, but it's certainly much better up on the big screen.

00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:39.900

Phil: But up on the big screen, it starts to look like a PlayStation 3 game.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:46.700

Phil: So yeah, the other annoying thing about it, it's got the most annoying starting menu ever.

00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:52.960

Phil: Obviously, when you start a game, and you've been playing it for a long time, you just mash the default button to get through to the actual gameplay.

00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:54.000

Phil: Yep.

00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:56.640

Phil: In this one, they have an alternate button.

00:20:57.140 --> 00:21:09.640

Phil: If you do that, at one point, you will open the Nintendo eStore to download a language pack that you already have and was installed with the game when you first install it.

00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:15.700

Phil: So you'll go, A, just to skip past the Blizzard screen and then A, to press any button.

00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:17.300

Phil: And then you press A again.

00:21:17.380 --> 00:21:23.780

Phil: Well, that's the one that's going to open up the Nintendo eShop and attempt to download a language pack.

00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:29.800

Phil: So that's the most annoying starting prompt to a video game I've ever seen.

00:21:30.360 --> 00:21:33.440

Phil: And I've seen a few, so I thought that was worth bringing up.

00:21:34.020 --> 00:21:36.780

Phil: Besides that, though, I was really underwhelmed because I'd heard for years...

00:21:36.800 --> 00:21:41.800

Phil: I've been playing these kinds of games, like Record of Lodoss War and Baldur's Gate forever.

00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:43.860

Phil: And I was really expecting more.

00:21:45.140 --> 00:21:48.200

Phil: I was expecting like a radically, significantly better.

00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:54.500

Phil: It is nothing more than just a really competent, very enjoyable take on the genre.

00:21:55.580 --> 00:21:58.400

Tom: Isn't that what Diablo was essentially famous for, though?

00:21:59.280 --> 00:22:06.240

Phil: Well, see, I've always just been on the sidelines because I was like, you know, I had other things going on and, you know, I never got around to Diablo either.

00:22:06.420 --> 00:22:11.180

Phil: When it first came out, my PC wasn't good enough or that seems to be always the case with Diablo.

00:22:11.780 --> 00:22:15.780

Phil: And then it finally, or I didn't have enough time in my life to play it.

00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.980

Phil: And then finally it comes to Switch where you've always got time to play.

00:22:19.820 --> 00:22:21.220

Phil: So it's a perfect match.

00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:25.060

Phil: And I hate to repeat the cliche, it's a perfect game for the Switch.

00:22:25.820 --> 00:22:27.960

Phil: And I'm really enjoying it.

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:35.700

Phil: I just thought that there was gonna be something more than just a very well-executed piece of interactive entertainment.

00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:38.240

Tom: But draws from other sources.

00:22:39.460 --> 00:22:40.660

Phil: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.900

Tom: That's kind of Blizzard's MO as well.

00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:45.440

Phil: Well, yeah.

00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:46.740

Phil: Hey, and I'll take it.

00:22:47.380 --> 00:22:50.100

Phil: Don't get me wrong, I'm loving it and having fun with it.

00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:53.320

Phil: Just was expecting something different.

00:22:54.760 --> 00:22:55.140

Phil: Anyway.

00:22:56.520 --> 00:22:58.360

Tom: It sounds like you got Diablo to me.

00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:07.040

Tom: And before we move on, we should probably point out that Diablo does actually pre-date Baldur's Gate.

00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:10.300

Tom: To give it its full credit.

00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:11.660

Phil: Thank you.

00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.240

Phil: And it probably pre-dates Record of Lodoss War as well.

00:23:14.300 --> 00:23:15.440

Phil: So, yeah.

00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:16.420

Phil: Hey, look, you know what?

00:23:16.600 --> 00:23:17.440

Phil: Turn it on its head.

00:23:17.820 --> 00:23:18.900

Phil: You're absolutely right.

00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:20.920

Phil: Those are the, yep, boy, you saved me there.

00:23:21.020 --> 00:23:21.420

Phil: All right.

00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:26.040

Phil: Now to our new segment, Tom Towers reacts to the news.

00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:32.800

Phil: Tom, I'm gonna read you a story that you have not heard yet and you're gonna react to it and then I'm gonna react to your reaction.

00:23:32.820 --> 00:23:34.680

Phil: Are you ready for news story number one?

00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:35.080

Tom: Yes.

00:23:35.760 --> 00:23:40.460

Phil: Now, this only happened today in our own country, Australia.

00:23:41.620 --> 00:23:55.060

Phil: Our Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has basically taken EB Games or GameStop to task for failing to refund consumers for the Fallout 76 game.

00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:59.540

Phil: So basically, Fallout 76 came out.

00:23:59.820 --> 00:24:07.180

Phil: It was an online game that had, you know, connection issues and also bugs within the game.

00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:13.660

Phil: And people went to GameStop and EB Games and said, I want my money back.

00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:14.760

Phil: This is a broken game.

00:24:16.800 --> 00:24:23.340

Phil: And basically, they were repeatedly told by people working at EB Games, no, you can't return a game for being buggy.

00:24:24.580 --> 00:24:34.940

Phil: So today, the ACCC has said, nope, a game can be returned for having technical glitches, and you must refund anyone who asks for a refund of Fallout 76.

00:24:36.100 --> 00:24:37.700

Tom: Which is perfectly fair, I would say.

00:24:38.560 --> 00:24:42.200

Phil: Yep, and all you got to do is email EB Games to request a refund.

00:24:43.840 --> 00:24:52.080

Phil: I don't know if you'll have a receipt, but you are giving up your right to play Fallout 76 with that version of the game.

00:24:52.460 --> 00:24:55.040

Phil: So I guess you've got to put it on the shelf or uninstall it.

00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:57.300

Phil: You'll be on the Honest System, no doubt.

00:24:58.840 --> 00:24:59.760

Phil: What's your take on that?

00:24:59.760 --> 00:25:05.900

Tom: I think the Honest System in this case will work perfectly because I don't think anyone wants to play Fallout 76.

00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:08.580

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:18.440

Phil: But what do you think about that concept of like, hey, I got stuck in a wall, or we'll be talking about Journey later and I'll be talking about the glitches I had with that game.

00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:21.900

Phil: Does that make it a defective...

00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:24.120

Phil: I mean, like, if...

00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:28.580

Tom: It obviously depends on how bad something is.

00:25:29.020 --> 00:25:35.560

Tom: But when you get to the level of something like Fallout 76, I think it makes perfect sense.

00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:42.100

Phil: Yeah, well, like, what if I'm watching a movie, and as I often find, a continuity error?

00:25:42.820 --> 00:25:56.400

Phil: Like, the actor was talking and he was looking down, then they cut to the scene another angle and he's looking up, or, you know, a glass is moved, or they're drinking out of a glass, and there's less water than there was, or more water than there was, you know.

00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:59.820

Phil: Should I be able to take that DVD back, because it contains errors?

00:26:00.820 --> 00:26:03.980

Tom: It depends on how bad the continuity error is, I would say.

00:26:05.620 --> 00:26:13.060

Phil: Well, there was recently an animated movie where they'd left the ping pong on a pencil, ping pong ball on a pencil in, you know?

00:26:13.080 --> 00:26:13.260

Phil: Yep.

00:26:13.360 --> 00:26:16.840

Phil: I mean, and it got patched out, apparently.

00:26:16.980 --> 00:26:22.680

Phil: I think it was the first movie to get a patch, if you don't count, you know, Star Wars, the original episodes.

00:26:23.740 --> 00:26:42.940

Tom: Which I think is an important part of this equation, where if you're in a world where patches are a possibility and you have a defective product that isn't being fixed, then I don't think there's really much of an excuse for it.

00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:44.820

Phil: No, I agree.

00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:45.880

Phil: I agree.

00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:47.220

Phil: I share your reaction.

00:26:48.080 --> 00:27:07.640

Phil: Now, this number two one doesn't need much of a reaction, but by the time that this podcast publishes, or probably just before or just after this show publishes, Sony is going to be revealing the PlayStation 5, the hardware, more details, and probably some exclusive games for it as well on June the 4th.

00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:17.260

Phil: So are you interested in that at all, excited by it, do you have any thoughts as to what shape you want the PlayStation 5 to be?

00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:20.360

Tom: I want a banana-shaped PlayStation.

00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:21.840

Phil: Okay.

00:27:21.860 --> 00:27:24.140

Tom: Like the controller, but that is the console.

00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:27.180

Phil: So you think that the...

00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:27.760

Phil: interesting.

00:27:28.360 --> 00:27:33.760

Phil: So you think that the console that they announce may well just be the controller that they've already revealed?

00:27:34.780 --> 00:27:37.000

Tom: No, I don't think it will be the controller.

00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:39.800

Tom: Remember the banana controller concept?

00:27:39.820 --> 00:27:40.460

Phil: Yeah, the Batarang.

00:27:41.320 --> 00:27:41.560

Tom: Yes.

00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:45.500

Tom: I want the console itself to be of a similar sort of design.

00:27:46.820 --> 00:27:57.940

Tom: It won't be the controller, but it will be a console like that that will stand up on these two legs in some impressive balancing act.

00:27:58.760 --> 00:27:59.260

Phil: Okay.

00:27:59.300 --> 00:28:00.540

Phil: Where would you put the disc?

00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:03.320

Tom: It would be no disc.

00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:04.780

Phil: A no disc console.

00:28:05.660 --> 00:28:06.640

Phil: It's a discless console.

00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:11.680

Phil: Well, that works so well for Microsoft, so why not?

00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:22.660

Phil: The other thing I wanted to ask you about was, as we come out of these unprecedented times, you're a big fan of football in Australia, and we had talked off air about whether...

00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:24.500

Tom: No, I'm just backing off there.

00:28:24.520 --> 00:28:25.460

Tom: I've changed my mind.

00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:30.040

Tom: I've gone next level in my concept idea here.

00:28:30.600 --> 00:28:35.040

Tom: It will indeed, if you get just one of them, be a discless console.

00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:47.620

Tom: But if you get two and you place them leg to leg so that they are forming the shape of a disc, you will place a disc between them which will levitate on laser beams as it is being read.

00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:51.680

Phil: This thing's going to be expensive, especially if you have to buy two of them.

00:28:51.760 --> 00:28:53.500

Tom: Sony consoles often are expensive.

00:28:55.420 --> 00:28:57.340

Tom: They were pioneers in Blu-ray.

00:28:57.360 --> 00:28:59.620

Phil: And DVD.

00:28:59.620 --> 00:29:00.840

Tom: And DVD, I have faith.

00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:04.560

Tom: The next step is the levitating disc drive.

00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:07.000

Phil: It's frictionless, man.

00:29:07.020 --> 00:29:13.280

Phil: I mean, so, you know, it'd be low energy required to read the disc, I'm assuming.

00:29:15.360 --> 00:29:18.240

Phil: Hey, A-League, it's the Australian Football League.

00:29:18.300 --> 00:29:19.680

Phil: It's coming back, I understand.

00:29:20.180 --> 00:29:22.340

Tom: Well, the A-League thinks it's coming back.

00:29:22.760 --> 00:29:25.100

Tom: Fox doesn't want it to come back, essentially.

00:29:25.120 --> 00:29:25.500

Phil: Really?

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.640

Phil: And they're the ones that pay for the A-League, right?

00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:29.760

Tom: They don't want to pay for it.

00:29:31.300 --> 00:29:39.160

Tom: So they're hoping to not pay for the rest of the season or at least pay a vastly reduced amount.

00:29:40.100 --> 00:29:43.520

Phil: So is it as you predicted, will there be some teams that don't come back?

00:29:44.900 --> 00:29:47.800

Tom: Well, I think there's a reasonable chance of that.

00:29:47.820 --> 00:30:06.640

Tom: It could also be seen as an opportunity by the FFA to get rid of some of the teams that they don't like or that contribute little in many people's eyes like Central Coast and Wellington.

00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:36.620

Tom: But in theory, most of the teams on their own merits would have a low chance of survival because basically every team, except for Melbourne Victory, Melbourne City, Sydney FC, Western Sydney Wanderers and to a lesser extent, Brisbane Raw and Perth Glory, are all basically funded by the A League itself.

00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:51.320

Tom: As long as the FFA itself were to survive and wanted to continue with a similar structure of League, in theory, they should all be able to survive.

00:30:51.340 --> 00:30:59.620

Phil: Okay, but you're sceptical that they will come back this year because Fox doesn't want to pay the TV rights for this year, I guess.

00:31:00.040 --> 00:31:01.860

Tom: Well, I think probably they will.

00:31:03.040 --> 00:31:07.100

Tom: They will probably come back, but when will be a question?

00:31:07.800 --> 00:31:31.040

Tom: Because you would assume that the A League will probably just give in to get it over and done with, with losing a lot of revenue from the television deal, because I don't think they have much faith in getting another contract with Fox, so they may just try and get as little money out of it as they can.

00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:45.600

Tom: By the same token, if they're not trying to get another contract out of Fox for next season, they may just think fuck Fox and can the league.

00:31:45.600 --> 00:32:07.000

Tom: But one thing to remember from the perspective of a Melbourne Victory fan is that Sydney FC is currently winning the league, and you would expect that the Sydney-based FFA would like another opportunity to award Sydney both with the first place position on the ladder and grand final.

00:32:08.140 --> 00:32:12.280

Phil: Yeah, so possibly like what I would suggest would be a truncated tournament season.

00:32:12.300 --> 00:32:13.120

Tom: Well, that is the plan.

00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:17.200

Tom: The plan is to play the last rounds in a round-robin format.

00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:19.580

Phil: Okay, so surely that will come.

00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:26.800

Tom: It's being reduced, but the thing is Fox is not so much interested in that happening.

00:32:28.100 --> 00:32:35.400

Phil: Okay, well thanks for that update because I had been thinking about it, had been thinking about you and where the A-League was headed.

00:32:36.600 --> 00:32:39.060

Phil: But we probably should get back on to games.

00:32:39.080 --> 00:32:47.440

Phil: You've also been playing the Final Fantasy VII Remake, been playing that on the PlayStation 4, I'm guessing?

00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:50.400

Tom: Yes, and technically just the demo of it.

00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:51.840

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:32:51.860 --> 00:32:56.060

Phil: Does the demo carry over to the full game and how long is the demo?

00:32:56.080 --> 00:33:06.000

Tom: I think the demo does not carry over to the full game, but it is only about 30 minutes to an hour depending on how fast you are.

00:33:06.620 --> 00:33:10.320

Phil: So it would take longer to download it and install it than it would to play it?

00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:12.540

Tom: Depending on the internet speed, yes.

00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:18.460

Phil: I'm guessing it's like probably a 7 gig or is that too much?

00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:20.460

Tom: I think it's much bigger than 7 gigabytes.

00:33:20.520 --> 00:33:27.320

Tom: I do not recall how big, but I would guess maybe in the 10 to 30 gigabyte range.

00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:37.520

Phil: So if it was a Call of Duty demo, it would be a 80 gig download with a day one patch that's 120 gig, I'm guessing.

00:33:37.540 --> 00:33:37.900

Tom: Correct.

00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:39.320

Tom: So it's actually quite small.

00:33:39.940 --> 00:33:40.280

Phil: Okay.

00:33:40.300 --> 00:33:41.620

Phil: So you're playing it on PlayStation 4?

00:33:41.620 --> 00:33:41.980

Tom: Yes.

00:33:42.580 --> 00:33:45.940

Phil: And what's your experience with Final Fantasy VII, the originals?

00:33:45.960 --> 00:34:00.320

Tom: Well, Final Fantasy VII was one of my first experiences on the PlayStation, borrowing it and the console itself from, I believe, Blockbuster at the time.

00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.520

Phil: You probably didn't borrow it from them, you probably rented it from them.

00:34:04.600 --> 00:34:04.940

Tom: Yes.

00:34:05.560 --> 00:34:05.840

Phil: Yes.

00:34:06.260 --> 00:34:10.040

Tom: Would you be able to explain the difference between borrowing and renting?

00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:13.400

Phil: Well, borrowing would be me lending you something for free.

00:34:13.420 --> 00:34:13.960

Phil: Okay, yes.

00:34:14.580 --> 00:34:17.180

Phil: Rent, there has to be an exchange of monetary...

00:34:17.200 --> 00:34:18.980

Tom: Maybe I temporarily stole it.

00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.260

Phil: Yeah, okay, that's all right, shoplifting is fine.

00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:24.580

Phil: We're into a shoplifting at The Game Under Podcast.

00:34:24.860 --> 00:34:28.120

Phil: Episode 125, if you've just joined us.

00:34:28.340 --> 00:34:33.640

Tom: Pro tip, don't try sticking a PlayStation console down your trousers, though.

00:34:34.520 --> 00:34:35.020

Phil: Oh, yeah.

00:34:35.040 --> 00:34:36.300

Tom: It's a little bit awkward to walk.

00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:37.220

Phil: Yeah.

00:34:37.700 --> 00:34:50.720

Tom: But anyway, Final Fantasy VII, one of my first experiences on the original PlayStation console and one of my favourite games ever.

00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:59.780

Tom: It's in the top three Final Fantasies for me with Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X.

00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:17.340

Tom: And I think it has a contender for greatest opening in a game ever where you thrust right into the action of engaging in an eco-terrorist attack on a Mako reactor.

00:35:18.620 --> 00:35:39.540

Tom: And the demo essentially is this epic opening seen from the original, done in high fidelity with hand-made renderings in HD of the environments you went through in the original game.

00:35:40.640 --> 00:35:44.080

Tom: The same sort of banter that was there in the original as well.

00:35:46.160 --> 00:35:58.120

Tom: And a totally new combat system, which I'll get to in a minute because the aesthetic quality of it, I think, is inferior to the original.

00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:16.140

Tom: It captures much of the feel in terms of colour and grittiness, but I think it has a lot to do with the combat system and the voice acting and the music.

00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:21.460

Tom: I think it doesn't capture the darkness of the original Final Fantasy VII.

00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:30.520

Tom: And this may change later on, but from my memory, Final Fantasy VII's, the original's opening was extremely dark.

00:36:30.680 --> 00:36:39.800

Tom: The first thing that kind of makes things more light-hearted than the original is that the banter is voice acted.

00:36:41.120 --> 00:36:56.360

Tom: And the voice acting is perfectly adequate, but Final Fantasy VII dialogue is not written well enough that it benefits very much from being read aloud and acted.

00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:14.080

Tom: And the actors do what you would with dialogue like that, which is emphasize the banter aspects and the silliness of it, rather than the narrative tone of what is happening in the world you're exploring.

00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:29.660

Tom: And the other issue is I think the high fidelity orchestration is inherently less dark than the midi music version of those same songs.

00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:31.160

Phil: Yeah, I can see that.

00:37:32.040 --> 00:37:36.980

Tom: Which is obviously not to say that you cannot make dark music in an orchestra.

00:37:37.420 --> 00:37:55.180

Tom: Certainly, Final Fantasy VII's music is not dark compared to many orchestral pieces, but the translation you do not get quite the same feeling when you are changing it like that.

00:37:55.200 --> 00:38:00.980

Phil: It's hard to do grime with an orchestra, and it's hard not to do MIDI without grime.

00:38:00.980 --> 00:38:01.720

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

00:38:01.740 --> 00:38:02.560

Phil: That is my contention.

00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:02.920

Tom: Yes.

00:38:03.560 --> 00:38:14.120

Tom: There are a lot of symphonies that are much more grimy than anything in any game, but it is certainly a greater level of skill required.

00:38:16.540 --> 00:38:20.600

Tom: So the tone is partly there, but not completely.

00:38:21.060 --> 00:38:30.640

Tom: The other thing is I'm not convinced that the idea of re-

00:38:31.340 --> 00:38:45.160

Tom: and making everything, then playing through it from the perspective of a movable camera really makes for something that is as visually interesting on the same level as the original game.

00:38:46.420 --> 00:38:58.080

Tom: A controlled perspective just inherently allows you to make more interesting environments, because you know exactly where people are looking and everything they're going to see.

00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:12.780

Tom: So it's still detailed, but the details are less interesting, because people don't know where you're going to be focusing all the time, and you can guide where you expect the player to look to some degree, but not to the same level.

00:39:13.160 --> 00:39:40.940

Tom: So visually, it doesn't really hold up to the original either, but again, because the original is such a brilliant work of art, an inferior reimagining of it is still extremely engrossing and engaging, and where I think it does live up to the original, albeit in a completely different way, is in combat.

00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:57.360

Tom: I had no idea what to expect from the combat, and I was pleasantly surprised because the last Final Fantasy game I have played is 12, which was a complete disappointment in terms of combat.

00:39:57.380 --> 00:40:22.080

Tom: It was a bad rendition of MMORPG combat, and obviously I wasn't expecting that in this, but no one really criticised Final Fantasy XII for its lackluster combat, so I was just assuming that the changes in Final Fantasy combat system over the years since then were probably as underwhelming and uninteresting as that.

00:40:22.080 --> 00:40:32.260

Tom: But this is a fascinating combination of almost beat-em-up style combat and control of teammates.

00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:57.440

Tom: So essentially you've got a dodge button and a block button, both of which require some degree of timing, and you've got two types of attack, with the difference being if you're using a heavy attack that does more damage, you are really slow in moving around, and dodging is a difficulty, and if you are using the fast attack, you can move around very quickly.

00:40:57.680 --> 00:41:09.160

Tom: So basically you have to think about your heavy attack timings based on what the enemies are doing and where they are and that sort of thing.

00:41:09.540 --> 00:41:32.700

Tom: And the battles just flow in and out of one another brilliantly in a very interesting way because the traditional RPG combat structure is you basically go through completely meaningless battles where you just press X or Enter or A the entire time and the enemy just dissolves before you.

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:39.660

Tom: Then you run into tougher enemies and then really tough ones and bosses and so forth.

00:41:40.180 --> 00:41:55.940

Tom: Here it's basically the same and in a fascinating way because even though you are in theory playing in a much more direct manner, the easy fights, that's pretty much still all you're doing is just spamming X.

00:41:56.280 --> 00:42:08.820

Tom: So because it's following the same structure as the original levels to some degree, you're not getting bogged down by the detailed combat in meaningless battles.

00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:22.680

Tom: It's only in battles against tougher enemies with more interesting patterns or dangerous arrangements of enemies that you actually have to play it in a more cerebral manner.

00:42:23.640 --> 00:42:27.100

Tom: So that allows for excellent pacing opportunities.

00:42:27.520 --> 00:42:59.420

Tom: So once you get to the boss at the end, which is a real highlight that combines weak points on the enemy, not in terms of elemental weaknesses, elemental weaknesses, dodging moments, blocking moments, basically the entire repertoire of things, and also having to switch between Barret and Cloud for when ranged and close quarters combat is more effective.

00:43:00.180 --> 00:43:06.240

Tom: That just is an amazing demonstration of the potential that the system has.

00:43:06.680 --> 00:43:22.140

Tom: And the following on from that when you're escaping is a great example of how well this can be used for pacing, because you basically just breeze through the level up to the boss, which is an epic fight and really difficult.

00:43:22.980 --> 00:43:43.940

Tom: Then after that, as you're trying to run through the level and escape, they throw in some dangerous combinations of enemies that you're not expecting and also tough enemies as well in a way that really adds to the tension of you running away from this Mako reactor that is about to blow up.

00:43:44.340 --> 00:43:56.180

Tom: So from a presentation perspective, to me it's a noticeable, arguably a big step back from the original.

00:43:57.060 --> 00:44:13.800

Tom: But from a gameplay perspective, I wouldn't say it's necessarily better, but it is a completely different take on things that has the potential to be used in fascinating and potentially better narrative ways later on.

00:44:15.180 --> 00:44:19.500

Phil: Did you play any of Final Fantasy XV, the most recent main entry?

00:44:20.260 --> 00:44:23.760

Tom: No, I have not, but it looks absolutely hilarious.

00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:28.400

Phil: Yeah, I started it and it was hilarious, so I really want to get back to it.

00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:37.380

Phil: I just don't have that much time to actually sit in front of a TV and play games as I do with, say, the Switch, for example.

00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:41.920

Phil: And this Final Fantasy VII Remake is a PlayStation 4 exclusive.

00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:48.780

Phil: It's received universally high praise, which is kind of swaying me a little bit.

00:44:48.820 --> 00:44:57.920

Phil: And it's also good to see amongst the credits names like Tetsuo Nomura, Yomatsu on music, Kitase Producing.

00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:07.060

Phil: And, you know, it's good to see a lot of the familiar names on the job, though I haven't always been a massive fan of Tetsuo Nomura.

00:45:08.260 --> 00:45:13.240

Phil: But that's because I like the older RPG, older Final Fantasy games.

00:45:14.680 --> 00:45:16.160

Phil: Yeah, you're really selling me on it.

00:45:16.180 --> 00:45:17.100

Phil: Are you sold on it?

00:45:17.220 --> 00:45:19.600

Phil: Will you be picking up the full version, do you think?

00:45:19.620 --> 00:45:28.320

Tom: I'm not sure if I'll pick up the full version, but it's certainly something that I will keep an eye on, because I'm not convinced that it will ever be finished.

00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:33.060

Phil: Well, but you can enjoy it just for this episode, I'm sure.

00:45:36.020 --> 00:45:47.480

Tom: If I was to play, for instance, half of it, and 20 years later there was no third part, and 50 years later I was dead and there was no fourth part, I would be annoyed.

00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:51.800

Phil: Well, it's worked so well for Half-Life, though.

00:45:53.900 --> 00:45:56.020

Phil: I see they're not sparing any dollars on this.

00:45:56.040 --> 00:45:58.520

Tom: It's a lot of VR version.

00:45:58.540 --> 00:45:59.940

Phil: There are many games.

00:46:01.380 --> 00:46:08.720

Phil: Danny O'Dwyer's latest documentary, there was actually basically a completed episode, or there is a completed episode.

00:46:09.860 --> 00:46:10.780

Tom: Was it an ad?

00:46:11.620 --> 00:46:12.360

Phil: No, no, no.

00:46:12.940 --> 00:46:14.720

Phil: Well, his show.

00:46:14.740 --> 00:46:21.360

Phil: The latest documentary is not an ad, and I wish I could remember who the studio is, because I actually watched the whole thing.

00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:23.220

Phil: It was very fascinating.

00:46:23.240 --> 00:46:35.200

Phil: It was about a studio that has a lot of games that were almost completely finished, get cancelled on them, and one of the first games that they featured looked like it was absolutely amazing.

00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:39.420

Phil: All right, well, it is Arkane Studio.

00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:53.240

Phil: So, Arkane Studios is the latest studio to be featured in Danny O'Dwyer's Noclip YouTube series, or Patreon series, I should say, but you can see them on YouTube.

00:46:53.860 --> 00:47:04.420

Phil: And there's three games that they made that weren't released, one called The Crossing, which to me is worth looking at the documentary in and of itself.

00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:06.840

Phil: I think it's a fascinating concept, The Crossing.

00:47:06.860 --> 00:47:10.760

Tom: Is this the developer of Ark's Fatalis and Prey?

00:47:12.340 --> 00:47:12.700

Phil: Yes.

00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:13.620

Tom: And Dishonored?

00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:14.600

Phil: Yep.

00:47:14.720 --> 00:47:16.120

Tom: And Bioshock 2?

00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:17.840

Phil: Yep.

00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:20.160

Phil: Dishonored would be what they're most famous for.

00:47:20.180 --> 00:47:21.840

Tom: Fallout 76.

00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:25.800

Phil: Well, possibly they were contributing.

00:47:26.020 --> 00:47:29.880

Phil: But yeah, well, they work for Bethesda now, so everyone's involved with that.

00:47:29.900 --> 00:47:31.400

Tom: There's one that they should have cancelled.

00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:32.140

Phil: Yeah.

00:47:32.160 --> 00:47:38.260

Phil: Well, Half-Life Ravenholm got the plug pulled on it with basically two weeks left on the game.

00:47:39.640 --> 00:47:42.460

Phil: Steam or Valve pulled the plug on it.

00:47:43.060 --> 00:47:44.080

Phil: And it looked actually...

00:47:44.100 --> 00:47:50.220

Tom: That's disappointing because that's the only good part in a Half-Life game outside of Episode II.

00:47:51.700 --> 00:47:56.600

Tom: So a return to it would have been fascinating, particularly if it wasn't developed by Valve.

00:47:57.360 --> 00:47:58.740

Phil: That's exactly what it was called.

00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:00.500

Phil: I think it was called Return to Ravenholm.

00:48:01.600 --> 00:48:02.360

Phil: And they...

00:48:02.380 --> 00:48:06.440

Phil: You know how a couple of its shows a few years ago were like, oh, but what...

00:48:06.680 --> 00:48:09.420

Phil: They would have to introduce something new if they were going to go back to it.

00:48:09.620 --> 00:48:11.700

Phil: And they came up with some cool elements.

00:48:11.720 --> 00:48:22.580

Phil: So yeah, for the first thing in a long time that's been good on Noclip is the untold history of Arkane Studios, Arkane with a K, of course.

00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:29.520

Phil: Okay, well, if that's it for your Final Fantasy VII impressions, you've been talking a bit, so I'll give you a bit of a break.

00:48:29.580 --> 00:48:31.220

Phil: I'll give you some trademark banter.

00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:43.580

Phil: You may recall that when the Xbox One X came out, that's the most expensive and most recently available Xbox, they touted how you could...

00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:46.840

Phil: it was backward compatible with original Xbox games.

00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:47.060

Tom: Yep.

00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:48.840

Phil: And so I've actually...

00:48:48.860 --> 00:48:51.660

Tom: That's what the extra power is for, for the emulator.

00:48:52.300 --> 00:48:53.560

Phil: Yep, exactly.

00:48:54.080 --> 00:49:23.660

Phil: And so I was like, because I have a pretty large original Xbox collection, and I have three very dodgy, three or four very dodgy original Xboxes that hardly work, and hardly work with the exaggeration, I've been considering getting an Xbox One X, like seriously, and even though it's like 600 or 700 bucks, I was like, if it can play some of my original Xbox games, it could be worth it, or maybe I'll wait and see what happens with the Xbox S.

00:49:24.160 --> 00:49:25.860

Phil: Well, that's the new one, right?

00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:28.660

Phil: Yeah, Xbox Series X, not S.

00:49:29.680 --> 00:49:41.340

Phil: So to be clear, the Xbox One S is the current one that's out that can play original Xbox games, and the X is the new one that's recently coming out this year.

00:49:41.720 --> 00:49:42.680

Phil: Glad to clarify that.

00:49:42.860 --> 00:49:43.500

Phil: Thanks, everyone.

00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:46.940

Phil: So I was like, should I hold out?

00:49:46.960 --> 00:50:01.440

Phil: So I started researching it, and I found out that they've very quietly introduced the Xbox original capability, backward compatibility, into all Xbox ones, including my launch one.

00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.960

Phil: So I basically ran OK.

00:50:04.980 --> 00:50:08.180

Phil: So there's a list of over 100 games, I think.

00:50:09.080 --> 00:50:14.400

Phil: I had about 14 of them, so of course the first one I put in is the one everyone wants, which is Crimson Skies.

00:50:15.080 --> 00:50:17.540

Phil: And yeah, you put your original disc in there.

00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:24.800

Phil: It says, OK, we're going to download an update for this game, which means we're going to download the game.

00:50:25.160 --> 00:50:29.340

Phil: So, you know, it's like a 3 to 6 gigabytes of data.

00:50:30.700 --> 00:50:34.760

Phil: And then basically they're using your original Xbox disc as an activation key.

00:50:35.300 --> 00:50:45.260

Phil: Yeah, it's pretty limited, like I said, out of the hundreds of Xbox games I've got, there's only about 12, and I've installed some.

00:50:45.640 --> 00:50:54.420

Phil: And I started playing Mercenaries, Playground of Destruction, and actually like three quarters of the way through it.

00:50:54.460 --> 00:51:00.060

Phil: And the reason why I stopped playing it originally was because the original Xbox couldn't keep up with it.

00:51:01.120 --> 00:51:09.600

Phil: It was just a frame rate, you know, it was just like what the last, what was that, Eco, Eco, the second, the second one last?

00:51:11.560 --> 00:51:12.580

Tom: The Colossus one?

00:51:12.600 --> 00:51:13.340

Tom: Shadow of the Colossus.

00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:18.080

Phil: Yeah, yeah, it was one of those experiences where the place, the original Xboxes couldn't keep up with it.

00:51:18.500 --> 00:51:23.780

Phil: And now I'm playing Mercenaries, Playground of Destruction, and it's an amazing game.

00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:26.300

Phil: It was released by LucasArts, and I won't get into it here.

00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:27.520

Phil: I'll say that for another time.

00:51:28.100 --> 00:51:31.860

Phil: But I'm just so happy with Microsoft that they've done this.

00:51:33.180 --> 00:51:35.440

Phil: Because it gives me confidence now.

00:51:36.060 --> 00:51:40.380

Phil: You know me, I'm typically buying PlayStation over Xbox, the last generation.

00:51:41.260 --> 00:51:44.800

Phil: But now, when it comes to picking up a game, it's available on both.

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.820

Phil: I'm picking the Xbox one, because there's a pretty good chance it's going to play on the future console.

00:51:50.940 --> 00:52:00.020

Phil: And in fact, just today, or actually a couple of days ago, Microsoft announced that the Xbox Series X is going to launch with thousands of games across four generations of Xbox.

00:52:00.860 --> 00:52:13.540

Phil: And they're going to have HDR reconstruction built into it, and quick time, and higher resolutions, and double the frame rate.

00:52:13.700 --> 00:52:20.720

Phil: So I'm really happy that they're committed to this backward compatibility movement.

00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:27.840

Phil: And it's actually made a difference in terms of me thinking about what is the first console I'm going to buy when they come out later this year.

00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:30.400

Phil: So this little stuff like this works.

00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:32.740

Phil: I know people say backward compatibility doesn't matter.

00:52:33.980 --> 00:52:38.460

Phil: And obviously I'm biased, because I've got hundreds of games in the Xbox format.

00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:42.980

Phil: But I just thought that was a real class act, and I'm so thrilled that they did it.

00:52:43.500 --> 00:52:47.240

Tom: Agreed, and I am all for backwards compatibility.

00:52:47.980 --> 00:52:49.420

Phil: Controversy on the show.

00:52:50.660 --> 00:52:53.560

Phil: And I, for one, am all for the thing you just talked about.

00:52:55.500 --> 00:52:59.980

Phil: I'm going to punish you, I'm going to put you back and make you give us first impressions of RE3.

00:53:01.900 --> 00:53:07.260

Phil: Well, you're punished anyway, because most of the stuff on our list today is tower-centric.

00:53:08.640 --> 00:53:17.540

Phil: But I was curious about something that you'd mentioned while we're in trademark banner, about something that you bought recently.

00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:19.660

Phil: So it's kind of box-related.

00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:20.620

Phil: What's in the box?

00:53:20.640 --> 00:53:21.460

Phil: What did you get?

00:53:22.100 --> 00:53:22.820

Phil: What did you get?

00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:29.820

Tom: Well, you have to guess what is in the box based on what is written on the box.

00:53:30.740 --> 00:53:31.140

Phil: Okay.

00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:34.120

Tom: So I will have to go and get the box.

00:53:34.140 --> 00:53:34.740

Phil: Read it to me?

00:53:35.080 --> 00:53:35.700

Phil: Oh, here we go.

00:53:35.740 --> 00:53:38.120

Phil: Okay, I'll play Go Get the Box music while you do that.

00:53:44.032 --> 00:53:45.492

Phil: Tom's going to get the box now.

00:53:46.412 --> 00:53:48.212

Phil: We're listening to Go Get the Box music.

00:53:49.712 --> 00:53:50.312

Phil: It's pretty good.

00:53:50.792 --> 00:53:51.552

Phil: I like this song.

00:53:52.352 --> 00:53:55.152

Phil: I should play it more, not just when he's going to go get a box.

00:53:56.472 --> 00:54:02.292

Phil: That way I can think back to this time where he was going to go get a box every time I hear this song now.

00:54:02.632 --> 00:54:07.152

Phil: Now every time you hear this song, you'll also think of Tom Towers going to get the box.

00:54:08.112 --> 00:54:08.812

Phil: Tom, are you back?

00:54:10.112 --> 00:54:10.712

Phil: He's not back.

00:54:12.432 --> 00:54:15.312

Phil: Well, we might have a truncated version of the Go Get the Box song.

00:54:18.072 --> 00:54:18.992

Phil: I think he's coming back.

00:54:19.012 --> 00:54:20.972

Phil: Here he comes.

00:54:20.992 --> 00:54:25.272

Phil: Here comes the words written on the box with Tom Towers.

00:54:27.832 --> 00:54:31.092

Phil: Tom Towers and What's Written on the Box.

00:54:33.192 --> 00:54:40.912

Phil: We're done listening to the Go Get the Box music and now here's Tom Towers to tell us what's written on the box.

00:54:43.692 --> 00:54:45.312

Phil: I don't think he's going to get the box.

00:54:45.332 --> 00:54:46.732

Phil: I think this is the end of the podcast.

00:54:46.752 --> 00:54:51.412

Phil: Well, thank you for listening to episode 125 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:54:51.692 --> 00:54:55.352

Phil: I've been your host, Phil Fogg, and I was joined by Tom Towers.

00:54:55.632 --> 00:55:00.972

Phil: Today we talked about Minecraft Dungeons, Final Fantasy VII.

01:03:10.512 --> 01:03:16.172

Tom: Top Gear, Super Mario All-Stars, one copy of that only.

01:03:16.572 --> 01:03:17.032

Phil: Brilliant.

01:03:17.092 --> 01:03:17.972

Phil: That's worth a lot of money.

01:03:18.072 --> 01:03:19.072

Tom: Yup.

01:03:19.252 --> 01:03:21.592

Tom: Unirally, did I mention Top Gear?

01:03:21.612 --> 01:03:21.892

Tom: Yes.

01:03:21.912 --> 01:03:29.292

Tom: Donkey Kong Country 2, Busby and another game that I cannot recall right now for some reason.

01:03:29.932 --> 01:03:30.772

Phil: Okay, sweet.

01:03:30.932 --> 01:03:32.932

Phil: Well, I've got a few hundred games for that system.

01:03:33.632 --> 01:03:34.972

Phil: No duplicates like you.

01:03:34.992 --> 01:03:36.332

Phil: I don't know what's going on there.

01:03:36.472 --> 01:03:42.372

Phil: But I think you can pick up games relatively good, and I'll give you some recommendations for games.

01:03:42.392 --> 01:03:45.772

Phil: And so how is it hooked up to your TV or monitor?

01:03:45.792 --> 01:04:01.112

Tom: Well, originally I just used RCA cables to the television, but basically everything except for Top Gear looks awful without upscaling on a large television, on a large HD television.

01:04:01.912 --> 01:04:20.992

Tom: So I've since then been using the Gainer $15 upscale, and either the technology has massively improved over the years, or the people suggesting that unless you got a $200 upscaler were completely full of shit.

01:04:21.592 --> 01:04:32.132

Tom: Because this $15 upscaler, it certainly does very slightly, detrimentally affect the colours.

01:04:33.072 --> 01:04:54.792

Tom: For the games I've tried, I don't notice any significant input latency, and it really does make a huge difference to the fuzziness of playing without it, with a virtually zero detriment to colours, and to me so far, no difference in input lag.

01:04:58.632 --> 01:05:16.632

Phil: I don't often play Super Nintendo games, but when I do, I have a clone system that is hooked up to RCA cables into the back of my TV, and then I just play it on 4-3 ratio, and that works well.

01:05:17.492 --> 01:05:19.492

Tom: I am playing it on 4-3 ratio.

01:05:20.412 --> 01:05:22.072

Tom: I certainly do not have it stretched.

01:05:24.012 --> 01:05:38.072

Tom: The one disadvantage of the Gain Upscaler, and I have failed to find any upscalers for purchase that will allow you to output an image in 4-3.

01:05:38.832 --> 01:05:43.732

Tom: The one I actually did find, 2, one was not available anywhere.

01:05:43.752 --> 01:05:54.452

Tom: The other, the review of it I found, said that you can switch between 4-3 and 16-9, but all the shops selling it say you can't.

01:05:54.732 --> 01:06:21.612

Tom: So unless you can alter the aspect ratio on whatever you are viewing the thing through, but this would apply just to plugging in the SNES itself anyway, I would recommend doing much more research than I did because I did only the cursory research to find one where you can switch the aspect ratio.

01:06:21.632 --> 01:06:41.652

Tom: Because if you have a monitor or television that has better colors to it, but you can't change the aspect ratio, to me games of this era, the graphical quality comes from the colors.

01:06:41.852 --> 01:06:51.492

Tom: I tried the SNES on my monitor, which is IPS, and the colors look significantly better than on the television.

01:06:53.552 --> 01:07:03.852

Tom: There's a night and day difference and a richness even to things like the Super Mario games that just completely change the experience.

01:07:03.852 --> 01:07:21.872

Tom: And in Super Mario, for instance, where you've got really basic geometry, to me, it's arguably better to have it stretched and high quality colors than to not have it stretched and worse quality colors.

01:07:23.252 --> 01:07:31.512

Tom: Which is also a demonstration of how well the upscaler does not get in the way of outputting high quality colors.

01:07:32.072 --> 01:07:34.532

Phil: What's the name of the upscaler that you purchased?

01:07:34.892 --> 01:07:38.052

Tom: The Gainer Mini upscaler.

01:07:38.912 --> 01:07:40.552

Tom: G-A-N-A.

01:07:41.112 --> 01:07:43.832

Tom: And it is $15, I believe.

01:07:44.412 --> 01:07:46.232

Phil: And it's available on eBay, I'm assuming?

01:07:46.432 --> 01:07:51.272

Tom: I think it's on eBay and Amazon and AliExpress as well, I think.

01:07:51.912 --> 01:07:53.012

Phil: Okay, upscaler.

01:07:53.692 --> 01:07:57.992

Phil: And also buyers beware, on eBay you'll see RCA to...

01:07:57.992 --> 01:07:59.972

Phil: Component.

01:08:00.272 --> 01:08:10.892

Phil: You'll see Super Nintendo to HDMI, which is basically just something that you plug in the back of the SNES and you plug it into the HDMI, and oftentimes they will not work.

01:08:12.112 --> 01:08:19.512

Phil: Because there's no upscaling going on, they're just selling you, technically correct, it is a plug that will plug in the back of the SNES.

01:08:19.752 --> 01:08:29.772

Tom: Any analog plugs to digital will require some sort of computer circuitry to be switching the image.

01:08:30.072 --> 01:08:33.012

Tom: So any just straight leads will not work.

01:08:33.432 --> 01:08:38.792

Phil: Will not work at all, but you can't do anything about it on eBay because they're technically correct.

01:08:39.472 --> 01:08:44.172

Phil: And I went through this a few years ago, I said, oh man, I'll get four of them, that's great.

01:08:45.512 --> 01:08:46.972

Phil: None of them work, they're all useless.

01:08:48.052 --> 01:08:48.932

Phil: So that's encouraging.

01:08:49.132 --> 01:08:52.152

Phil: The other way I usually play my SNES games is using a Retron 5.

01:08:52.552 --> 01:09:04.912

Phil: So the thing that I've got going on, even though I've got three Super Nintendo's, they're all US power, and I try and reduce the amount of US power consoles I plug in and hook up.

01:09:05.292 --> 01:09:11.832

Phil: So I always try and go with an Australian purchased device whenever I can.

01:09:13.012 --> 01:09:25.212

Phil: The Retron 5 is okay, but I certainly prefer the much cheaper clone that I've got, which was just one of those $30 jobs you get off eBay, where you can plug in an original SNES, and it's got the original SNES circuit board inside.

01:09:26.272 --> 01:09:28.272

Phil: But that's really great, I'm really happy about that.

01:09:28.292 --> 01:09:30.592

Phil: So is it permanently hooked up to your TV?

01:09:31.592 --> 01:09:35.432

Tom: No, but it is currently on the floor next to the television.

01:09:36.012 --> 01:09:41.692

Tom: So it's sort of close to being permanently hooked up to the television.

01:09:42.212 --> 01:09:51.692

Phil: And I don't know how much the SNES Mini now costs, but that's also another great option, particularly if you want to hack it and put a bunch of other stuff on.

01:09:51.752 --> 01:09:53.572

Phil: I haven't, because I just haven't.

01:09:53.592 --> 01:09:56.112

Tom: Well, this was technically free, so...

01:09:56.132 --> 01:09:56.712

Phil: You can't beat it.

01:09:57.232 --> 01:09:57.972

Tom: You can't beat it.

01:09:58.052 --> 01:10:02.272

Tom: And just one thing I would say, because I am...

01:10:02.292 --> 01:10:24.732

Tom: or I enjoy emulation, but the SNES games that I have emulated are compared to what this looks like, upscale to 1080p on my IPS monitor, stretching notwithstanding, there is a massively noticeable difference in the quality of the colors.

01:10:25.372 --> 01:10:26.092

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:10:26.112 --> 01:10:28.132

Phil: And I've always been an emulation snob.

01:10:28.212 --> 01:10:31.252

Phil: You know, I'm just like, why emulate when you've got the originals?

01:10:31.272 --> 01:10:32.772

Phil: Use the originals, they always look better.

01:10:33.792 --> 01:10:35.192

Tom: But if you don't have the originals...

01:10:35.932 --> 01:10:41.012

Phil: Then you can do it for historic purposes, but just know that you're not getting the same experience.

01:10:42.172 --> 01:10:42.712

Tom: Okay, cool.

01:10:42.732 --> 01:10:58.612

Tom: And the one other thing I would add about it is, while I've never owned an SNES or NES, my most recent, my oldest Nintendo console, rather, is the Nintendo 64.

01:10:59.152 --> 01:11:06.992

Tom: I have played the SNES and NES a lot at my cousin, so I do have experience with it.

01:11:07.332 --> 01:11:31.472

Tom: And it is pretty funny going from a disc-based console, and even compared to the N64, to this, this feels significantly more durable, even though it is lighter, and has some feeling of invincibility to it, as opposed to other consoles.

01:11:31.532 --> 01:11:58.052

Tom: And it is, I need to clean it, and it is rather ratty in many ways, yet it works perfectly, and all the buttons and putting the cartridges in and out is pretty much what I remember it being like in the perfect condition SNES of my cousins.

01:12:00.472 --> 01:12:01.612

Phil: I'm going to give you some homework.

01:12:01.632 --> 01:12:05.752

Phil: So number one, it's also easy to pick up controllers for it these days.

01:12:06.232 --> 01:12:08.072

Tom: It had two with it, amazingly.

01:12:08.532 --> 01:12:22.672

Phil: And the other thing I was going to do for your homework, this is going to blow your mind, I'm not sure you're ready for it, but the plug that leads out of the back of a Super Nintendo is identical to the plug that leads out of an N64 and a GameCube.

01:12:23.012 --> 01:12:28.552

Tom: That is in fact how I was able to plug it into the television with RCA.

01:12:31.252 --> 01:12:38.092

Phil: Okay, so have you tried plugging your new Super Duper Gana Mini into the back of your N64 to see if that works?

01:12:38.512 --> 01:12:39.512

Tom: I will have to do that.

01:12:39.592 --> 01:12:49.272

Tom: And I'm also planning to try that with my Wii U PS2 and GameCube and whatever else is around when I get around to it.

01:12:49.772 --> 01:12:55.352

Tom: Because it will be, and I suspect you probably won't get the same sort of gains in it.

01:12:55.372 --> 01:13:11.852

Tom: The commentary I found on specifically the Gana, which also claims that you can use another one for switching between 4, 3 and 16 to 9 and all other sources seem to claim otherwise, so who knows if they're accurate.

01:13:12.052 --> 01:13:20.772

Tom: But they suggest that for more recent consoles, a different sort of upscaler is a better choice.

01:13:22.732 --> 01:13:28.472

Phil: Let me just clarify, so this Gana thing, does it have a plug on it that plugs into the back of your SNES?

01:13:29.772 --> 01:13:34.192

Tom: It has RCA inputs and HDMI output.

01:13:35.052 --> 01:13:38.632

Phil: Okay, that's right, because on the back of the SNES, you had the RCA outputs.

01:13:39.512 --> 01:13:40.272

Phil: Not just the...

01:13:40.532 --> 01:13:42.692

Phil: yeah, so what I'm talking about is a little grey plug.

01:13:42.712 --> 01:13:49.552

Tom: So on the SNES, you've got the MultiOut, which is what is compatible with the N64 and GameCube.

01:13:49.952 --> 01:13:55.772

Tom: You've got the standard single aerial style output.

01:13:56.752 --> 01:13:58.432

Tom: And is there a third one, or is that it?

01:14:00.332 --> 01:14:00.912

Phil: No, that's it.

01:14:01.952 --> 01:14:02.372

Phil: That's it.

01:14:02.492 --> 01:14:03.212

Phil: But the back...

01:14:03.232 --> 01:14:05.432

Phil: I didn't know that the back of the N64...

01:14:05.432 --> 01:14:11.392

Phil: Yeah, see, the back of the N64 only has that one proprietary plug out.

01:14:11.412 --> 01:14:12.992

Phil: It doesn't have any RCA out.

01:14:13.012 --> 01:14:14.072

Phil: The PlayStation one does.

01:14:14.092 --> 01:14:18.112

Tom: Correct, but the MultiOut is what is the RCA cable.

01:14:18.372 --> 01:14:19.952

Tom: They just call it MultiOut.

01:14:20.932 --> 01:14:23.212

Tom: So it's not RCA to RCA.

01:14:23.252 --> 01:14:29.072

Tom: It's Nintendo's plug thing so that they can sell you leads to RCA.

01:14:29.892 --> 01:14:36.732

Phil: Okay, so just to be very clear, the plug out that is on this gainer is the one that will fit into the N64 as well.

01:14:36.752 --> 01:14:39.552

Tom: No, the input on the gainer is RCA.

01:14:40.692 --> 01:14:41.692

Phil: Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

01:14:41.712 --> 01:14:42.492

Phil: Okay, I'm an idiot.

01:14:42.512 --> 01:14:44.852

Phil: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

01:14:44.932 --> 01:14:53.192

Tom: MultiOut is just simply the Nintendo in the vein of Apple RCA cable.

01:14:53.652 --> 01:15:03.072

Phil: Okay, I've got countless RCA switches that I could send to you too, so you could hook up to four different devices to the gainer without having to unplug it all the time.

01:15:03.092 --> 01:15:04.772

Phil: You just slide the switch along.

01:15:06.272 --> 01:15:07.252

Phil: We can look forward to that.

01:15:07.852 --> 01:15:08.292

Tom: Excellent.

01:15:08.952 --> 01:15:13.092

Tom: I believe, unfortunately, the SNES is region locked though, isn't it?

01:15:14.912 --> 01:15:16.172

Phil: It's a physical region lock.

01:15:18.992 --> 01:15:19.912

Phil: Yeah, so...

01:15:19.952 --> 01:15:22.332

Tom: And I would assume yours is NTSC.

01:15:23.012 --> 01:15:25.132

Phil: It is NTSC, yeah, yeah.

01:15:25.212 --> 01:15:27.312

Phil: But I know the N64, it doesn't matter.

01:15:27.612 --> 01:15:29.412

Phil: Oh yeah, it does matter, because I tried to play some...

01:15:30.172 --> 01:15:33.332

Phil: I tried to play Episode 1 Podracer on it, and it didn't work.

01:15:33.352 --> 01:15:35.392

Tom: As of this morning, that is a great game.

01:15:35.852 --> 01:15:37.112

Phil: Yeah, it is a great game.

01:15:39.052 --> 01:15:49.612

Phil: So, other things that people have been looking forward to, besides Final Fantasy VII Remake, has been another remake that I believe you've recently played the demo for, also on the PlayStation 4, I'm assuming.

01:15:49.632 --> 01:15:52.132

Tom: No, I played this on PC, on Steam.

01:15:53.092 --> 01:15:53.892

Phil: Oh, it's on Steam.

01:15:54.572 --> 01:15:59.532

Phil: You know, what else is on Steam now is that pirate game for Xbox, Sea of Thieves.

01:15:59.552 --> 01:16:00.232

Tom: Sea of Thieves.

01:16:00.492 --> 01:16:02.172

Phil: Yeah, that's on Steam now.

01:16:04.152 --> 01:16:06.832

Tom: So that means it must be free on Games Pass for PC, I assume.

01:16:06.972 --> 01:16:07.852

Phil: It has to be.

01:16:07.952 --> 01:16:09.512

Phil: Yeah, I assume so.

01:16:10.812 --> 01:16:14.652

Tom: Speaking of Games Pass, just a short aside before...

01:16:14.672 --> 01:16:18.272

Phil: I think we're on our fourth Speaking Of, so I'll see if I can keep it going.

01:16:19.532 --> 01:16:23.272

Tom: Games Pass is an amazing utility.

01:16:23.452 --> 01:16:35.272

Tom: I was looking to finally get into Pathologic at some point, but I owned Pathologic and Pathologic Classic HD.

01:16:35.292 --> 01:16:45.732

Tom: Pathologic 2, despite being called 2, is actually a reimagining of the original Pathologic, so there's basically three versions of the one game.

01:16:46.852 --> 01:16:51.492

Tom: And another game in a similar vein I was interested in was Plague Tale.

01:16:51.832 --> 01:16:53.672

Tom: I believe it's a ridiculous title.

01:16:54.812 --> 01:16:58.272

Tom: And they're all free on Games Pass, apparently.

01:16:59.772 --> 01:17:01.192

Phil: It's not the game I was thinking of.

01:17:01.212 --> 01:17:02.492

Phil: I was thinking of a different game.

01:17:03.232 --> 01:17:13.332

Tom: Pathologic is by, I think they're called Icepick Lodge, an avant-garde Russian game developer.

01:17:13.352 --> 01:17:15.452

Tom: Famous for the void outside of this.

01:17:16.172 --> 01:17:17.332

Phil: RPG survival game.

01:17:18.212 --> 01:17:19.512

Phil: That's not the one I was thinking of.

01:17:21.112 --> 01:17:23.812

Tom: I believe one reviewer described it as Skyrim Lite.

01:17:26.632 --> 01:17:30.132

Phil: I don't know how you'd get any lighter than Skyrim Lite.

01:17:30.712 --> 01:17:33.672

Phil: Probably if you made it Home Alone or whatever it was called.

01:17:34.972 --> 01:17:41.412

Phil: But speaking of games that you don't want to be left home alone with, I believe you've been playing Resident Evil 3 on PC.

01:17:41.432 --> 01:17:43.492

Tom: Yes, the demo for it.

01:17:45.072 --> 01:17:46.632

Tom: There's not much to say about it.

01:17:46.652 --> 01:17:56.592

Tom: It suffers from the same issue of remaking an isometric game to 3D.

01:17:56.732 --> 01:18:00.712

Tom: It's going to make that environment significantly less interesting.

01:18:00.732 --> 01:18:09.852

Tom: Here, you're dealing with an environment that just is not of the same standard of interest in the original as Final Fantasy VII was.

01:18:09.912 --> 01:18:18.672

Tom: When you are translating that to 3D, the result is even more bland and uninteresting.

01:18:20.512 --> 01:18:28.752

Tom: The other issue is, again, it follows the environment pretty closely to what I remember Resident Evil 2 being.

01:18:29.232 --> 01:18:35.492

Tom: At least in the demo, for me that didn't result in particularly interesting encounters.

01:18:36.332 --> 01:18:38.432

Tom: There was absolutely no tension.

01:18:39.872 --> 01:18:46.252

Tom: There was always, it felt like, too much room to be able to easily avoid zombies.

01:18:47.472 --> 01:18:55.752

Tom: And you could put too much space between you and zombies with no difficulty to be able to shoot them.

01:18:56.092 --> 01:19:05.072

Tom: It feels more like Revelations than RE4, RE5 and presumably RE6 is in a similar vein, style mechanics.

01:19:05.452 --> 01:19:26.092

Tom: In Resident Evil Revelations, at least the first one and what I played at the second, the design of the levels was very compact, very corridor based, so that if you were coming up against zombies, you were in much more immediate threat and you had to sprint away.

01:19:26.152 --> 01:19:29.732

Tom: It was difficult to get space between you and zombies.

01:19:29.932 --> 01:19:49.672

Tom: Here that wasn't the case at all, but it is a demo, so things may be easier and less tense than they are in the actual game itself, so that people aren't put off playing.

01:19:50.232 --> 01:20:00.112

Phil: You went into this, obviously, you downloaded it, you bothered to do it, so you obviously went into this with high hopes, but came out of it less like meh.

01:20:00.572 --> 01:20:04.012

Tom: It was thoroughly disappointing, I found it to be.

01:20:06.452 --> 01:20:07.572

Phil: Well, I'm sorry to hear that.

01:20:07.592 --> 01:20:09.452

Phil: I was never a fan of Resident Evil 3.

01:20:09.472 --> 01:20:19.112

Tom: The one thing I will say it had going for it, which is kind of a reverse of Final Fantasy VII, is the voice acting.

01:20:20.072 --> 01:20:34.412

Tom: The Resident Evil series has really settled into a great level of self-aware hoaxiness without becoming annoying and pretentious.

01:20:34.652 --> 01:20:43.112

Tom: So the small snippets of story and character banter was highly amusing and entertaining.

01:20:44.452 --> 01:20:46.912

Phil: Yeah, I think only the Japanese are capable of that.

01:20:47.052 --> 01:20:50.352

Phil: Maybe the British, but yeah, definitely the British.

01:20:50.992 --> 01:20:53.592

Phil: But there's certainly not many other cultures.

01:20:54.972 --> 01:21:01.512

Phil: For me, my favorites are two, and then I jump straight to Code Veronica, then four, then five, obviously.

01:21:01.592 --> 01:21:06.152

Phil: And then I haven't really been interested in any of the other games since then.

01:21:07.072 --> 01:21:10.232

Phil: But I have them all, and I'm going to play them all at some point.

01:21:10.432 --> 01:21:14.972

Phil: I was actually really interested in playing a remake on the GameCube.

01:21:16.132 --> 01:21:17.672

Phil: I was reading about that last night.

01:21:17.872 --> 01:21:21.992

Phil: And then probably jumping to the remake of two.

01:21:23.032 --> 01:21:28.472

Tom: The remake of the original, as we have heard on the show, is a fantastic game.

01:21:28.992 --> 01:21:29.392

Phil: Yeah.

01:21:29.652 --> 01:21:31.132

Phil: So why am I doing that?

01:21:31.152 --> 01:21:33.852

Phil: Why would I go back and play the GameCube version?

01:21:35.572 --> 01:21:41.872

Tom: Well, the only difference with the more recent version of the remake of the original is that it's in HDs, isn't it?

01:21:42.392 --> 01:21:45.932

Tom: It's essentially a remastering of the GameCube remake.

01:21:46.772 --> 01:21:47.992

Phil: I'd have to do research.

01:21:48.012 --> 01:21:49.632

Phil: I thought it was something brand new.

01:21:49.672 --> 01:21:52.172

Tom: The Resident Evil 2 remake is something brand new.

01:21:52.232 --> 01:21:52.732

Phil: Brand new.

01:21:54.232 --> 01:22:09.012

Phil: Because I tried playing the Saturn version of the original about two years ago, and it's really not playable at this point for someone who's just trying to get into it and sort of see what it's about, unfortunately.

01:22:09.792 --> 01:22:11.032

Phil: It's functional and everything.

01:22:11.132 --> 01:22:14.792

Phil: It's just got pretty poor checkpointing and resources.

01:22:15.272 --> 01:22:20.592

Phil: You know, it's an old game where you're supposed to try and get as much value out of it as possible by playing it over and over and over again.

01:22:20.612 --> 01:22:23.712

Phil: So, yeah, I'm interested to see whether...

01:22:23.912 --> 01:22:27.572

Phil: This has to be leading to a remake of RE4 and Code Veronica.

01:22:29.552 --> 01:22:30.772

Phil: I think they've already announced for it.

01:22:30.792 --> 01:22:31.332

Phil: I'm not sure.

01:22:31.692 --> 01:22:40.992

Phil: Okay, well, I thought maybe next we would talk about another old game that we both recently started and finished this year.

01:22:42.452 --> 01:22:46.972

Phil: Because you've been a big protagonist of Sky from That Game Company.

01:22:46.992 --> 01:22:49.552

Phil: In fact, it made your ten best games of...

01:22:49.832 --> 01:22:52.492

Tom: I believe the fifth best game of the decade.

01:22:52.712 --> 01:22:53.892

Phil: Of the decade, yep.

01:22:54.352 --> 01:22:54.732

Phil: And...

01:22:56.112 --> 01:22:59.052

Phil: But we both went back and played Journey recently.

01:22:59.472 --> 01:23:02.912

Phil: I played it on the original hardware on a PlayStation 3.

01:23:03.932 --> 01:23:05.032

Phil: And you played it on...

01:23:05.432 --> 01:23:07.512

Tom: The free PS4 version.

01:23:08.312 --> 01:23:09.392

Phil: So is it free for everyone?

01:23:09.412 --> 01:23:11.572

Tom: It's free for everyone.

01:23:12.272 --> 01:23:16.272

Tom: As well as the Drake's Fortune collection.

01:23:16.292 --> 01:23:17.332

Tom: Or whatever the fuck it's called.

01:23:17.592 --> 01:23:18.152

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:23:18.172 --> 01:23:20.832

Phil: And I'm not bothering to download any of that.

01:23:21.952 --> 01:23:23.172

Phil: I've got Journey on disc.

01:23:23.192 --> 01:23:27.872

Phil: I've got the collector's edition, which has Flow, Flower, Journey.

01:23:28.712 --> 01:23:29.412

Phil: I didn't tell you this.

01:23:29.432 --> 01:23:31.712

Phil: It's got three games that they did at a game jam.

01:23:32.552 --> 01:23:34.012

Phil: That you're probably very interested in.

01:23:35.352 --> 01:23:41.852

Phil: And then also making of videos that I've looked through on YouTube so I could send them to you, but they don't have them on YouTube.

01:23:42.012 --> 01:23:46.332

Phil: And they're interviews with all the people at...

01:23:47.612 --> 01:23:48.632

Phil: Kelly, what's her name?

01:23:48.652 --> 01:23:50.232

Tom: Calla Santiago.

01:23:50.452 --> 01:23:50.872

Phil: Yeah.

01:23:51.152 --> 01:23:52.092

Tom: Janova Chan.

01:23:52.112 --> 01:23:53.772

Phil: Janova Chan and the other guy.

01:23:53.952 --> 01:23:57.612

Phil: And so it's really a nice little package.

01:23:57.712 --> 01:23:59.452

Phil: So it's a collector's edition.

01:24:00.552 --> 01:24:04.152

Phil: It does require that you install them and I think in some way download them.

01:24:05.352 --> 01:24:07.792

Phil: So I played Journey back when it came out.

01:24:08.652 --> 01:24:09.312

Tom: As did I.

01:24:09.792 --> 01:24:10.092

Phil: Yep.

01:24:10.212 --> 01:24:16.752

Phil: And I thought in light of what you've been saying about Sky and that you were going to go back and play Journey, I said, well, fine, I'll do that too.

01:24:16.772 --> 01:24:19.552

Phil: It's only like two hours, I think, to play through the whole game.

01:24:20.632 --> 01:24:22.632

Tom: Or even less depending on how fast you are.

01:24:23.132 --> 01:24:23.532

Phil: Yeah.

01:24:23.552 --> 01:24:27.312

Phil: So I'll just give you a voice arrest and I'll give you my impressions.

01:24:27.332 --> 01:24:31.992

Phil: First of all, visually it was very impressive still.

01:24:32.052 --> 01:24:39.792

Phil: And this is playing on a launch PlayStation 3 on a modern HDTV using a PlayStation 3 controller.

01:24:40.732 --> 01:24:44.572

Phil: The sand looked just as glorious as it did the first time I saw it.

01:24:46.172 --> 01:24:48.412

Phil: The aesthetic of it, I quite enjoyed.

01:24:50.672 --> 01:24:52.432

Phil: And was very unified.

01:24:52.452 --> 01:24:56.612

Phil: It reminded me, the architecture in some places reminded me of The Last Guardian.

01:24:56.632 --> 01:24:57.812

Phil: Definitely.

01:25:00.152 --> 01:25:11.292

Tom: I think Journey, though, is very much influenced, as well as Sky and potentially other Genova Shen games, by Ico and Shadow of the Colossus.

01:25:11.772 --> 01:25:14.292

Phil: Yeah, and you can see that come through quite clearly.

01:25:14.312 --> 01:25:23.032

Phil: I've just been reading a Making Of interview with That Game Company for Flower, which I should send you a copy of.

01:25:23.052 --> 01:25:26.132

Phil: It's like a four-page interview in Edge.

01:25:29.112 --> 01:25:30.532

Phil: And they're very thoughtful.

01:25:30.772 --> 01:25:36.492

Phil: What I like about every detail of Journey is that there's nothing that's out of place in any way.

01:25:38.232 --> 01:25:43.792

Phil: And there are themes for every level, but they all fit and they all flow, not to.

01:25:52.192 --> 01:25:56.312

Phil: I'm really going to get it together today.

01:25:56.332 --> 01:26:03.672

Phil: So now what happens was, though, it crashed my PlayStation 3 and lost my save several, several times.

01:26:03.772 --> 01:26:06.872

Phil: And in fact, it got to the point where I knew it would crash.

01:26:07.312 --> 01:26:09.372

Phil: It was crashing at the same point every time.

01:26:09.772 --> 01:26:21.052

Phil: So basically what I tried to do was limit my view on the screen so there was less moving bits, because whenever something was too many things on the screen, it would kill the PlayStation.

01:26:21.512 --> 01:26:25.932

Phil: So I'd have to figure out how to turn the camera, walk forward, but turn the camera to the left.

01:26:25.952 --> 01:26:27.432

Phil: So it's just looking at the sand dune.

01:26:28.212 --> 01:26:29.492

Phil: And I got through it like that.

01:26:30.092 --> 01:26:33.412

Phil: And ultimately I got through the end of the game.

01:26:33.472 --> 01:26:41.872

Phil: I played it online because I wanted to see if anyone else was out there to interact with, because you can talk more about the hook of the game.

01:26:43.032 --> 01:26:48.232

Phil: And sadly, there's no one out there at all, even though I was online the entire time.

01:26:48.412 --> 01:26:54.352

Tom: When I played the PS3 version originally, for some reason I ran into a few players, weirdly.

01:26:55.952 --> 01:27:00.012

Phil: Well, we can't say it wasn't big in Japan, so it can't be that excuse.

01:27:01.352 --> 01:27:06.992

Phil: So, like, you know, I guess that's where I'll let my impression stop until I hear more of what you have to say.

01:27:07.772 --> 01:27:24.052

Phil: Ultimately, though, Gameplayed as a single player game is not fulfilling as, you know, it's just not as fulfilling and certainly seems like a very lonely experience and obviously not the intended...

01:27:24.072 --> 01:27:33.832

Phil: They probably intended to be a very lonely game if there's no one else to play with, which is the point, but certainly wasn't as involving as if...

01:27:34.372 --> 01:27:35.952

Phil: And more difficult, too.

01:27:35.972 --> 01:27:39.632

Phil: I mean, there are some levels where it's more difficult to get through if you're trying to do it yourself.

01:27:39.992 --> 01:27:42.812

Tom: Yep, because you charge one another...

01:27:43.212 --> 01:27:43.632

Phil: Yeah, exactly...

01:27:43.632 --> 01:27:43.632

Tom: .

01:27:43.632 --> 01:27:45.912

Tom: in the same way you do in Sky.

01:27:46.372 --> 01:27:47.652

Phil: Yeah, so it was really...

01:27:48.472 --> 01:27:50.492

Phil: You had some frustration in some levels.

01:27:52.032 --> 01:27:52.912

Phil: But, yeah.

01:27:52.952 --> 01:27:54.932

Phil: So how was your experience?

01:27:55.692 --> 01:28:14.192

Tom: Well, it's useful that you played the PS3 version because that reminded me that I ran into a lot of technical problems with slowdown and things like that as well, as well as not running into many other players when I originally played it on PS3.

01:28:14.352 --> 01:28:30.272

Tom: And when I did, they just kind of ran off and did their own thing, except for one in the vertical level where you're filling it up with water and one at the end in the snow area.

01:28:30.872 --> 01:28:39.072

Tom: And in my original playthrough, I think those both hurt the experience a lot, particularly the technical deficiencies.

01:28:40.252 --> 01:28:44.232

Tom: You will recall that when I originally played it, I was not a fan at all.

01:28:44.252 --> 01:28:48.292

Tom: I found it to be very dull and uninteresting.

01:28:48.652 --> 01:29:24.112

Tom: And I think the biggest contributing factor to that was the technical problems, because for the aesthetic of Journey to Work, I think you need an uninterrupted flow with it, because as well as in terms of the gameplay, visually as well, it is playing with sudden grandiose reveals and then troughs of desert where there is not much going on visually and shadow areas later on and that sort of thing.

01:29:24.692 --> 01:29:41.932

Tom: So when you get to the big grandiose reveal and it's at 10 frames per second and the music starts, it kind of ruins the effect of it and the momentum of the game, that the game itself is trying to build as well.

01:29:41.952 --> 01:29:50.912

Tom: So playing this on the PS4 version was basically a completely different experience and I ended up really enjoying it.

01:29:53.352 --> 01:30:01.952

Tom: And the higher resolution as well, the original from what I can remember must have been 720p, not 1080p.

01:30:02.272 --> 01:30:38.012

Tom: At the higher resolution, you can really see the detail in the sand so much better, but more importantly than that, you can see details in the architecture and in the Tibetan prayer-like threads of cloth and your character as well, which allows you to enjoy this cloth-like puppet texture that is throughout these levels and appreciate as you're going along, realising that which is a fascinating thing in Sky as well.

01:30:38.232 --> 01:30:46.832

Tom: Even though you're going through these desert areas, there's this aquatic theme to the way everything looks like.

01:30:46.852 --> 01:31:02.992

Tom: The Tibetan prayer-threads of cloth are all like aquatic reeds at the bottom of a water, and the flying creatures are all clearly aquatic based.

01:31:03.532 --> 01:31:10.932

Tom: And that's apparent not just in the watery level that is there, it's apparent throughout the entire game.

01:31:11.252 --> 01:31:19.072

Tom: So when you have technical things getting in the way of that, that to me ruined the experience, so it was a completely different thing.

01:31:19.512 --> 01:31:20.752

Tom: The music as well...

01:31:20.772 --> 01:31:22.172

Phil: Can I interject before?

01:31:22.272 --> 01:31:26.772

Phil: Because you're saying, oh, well, I didn't appreciate this game back then because of technical issues.

01:31:28.112 --> 01:31:28.932

Phil: Could it be...

01:31:29.212 --> 01:31:40.012

Phil: Now, keeping in mind your screenshot of Deadly Premonition, I don't disagree, because did you play this game on a 12 inch standard definition television through RCA cables initially?

01:31:40.292 --> 01:31:41.692

Tom: Well, actually, I can't remember.

01:31:41.712 --> 01:31:44.112

Tom: I may well have actually played it on that television.

01:31:44.472 --> 01:31:46.912

Tom: That would actually be correct probably.

01:31:47.172 --> 01:31:47.752

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:31:47.772 --> 01:31:49.092

Phil: And now you're seeing it in HD.

01:31:49.172 --> 01:31:49.812

Phil: Yeah.

01:31:50.012 --> 01:31:51.372

Phil: So let's just be clear about that.

01:31:51.392 --> 01:31:54.312

Phil: Some of your technical issues may have been due to the hardware.

01:31:55.692 --> 01:31:56.472

Phil: But the other question...

01:31:56.492 --> 01:32:27.272

Tom: But I do think that things like the slowdown were what really got in the way of the experience, because the momentum that it builds up of slowing you down, then speeding up with a feeling of freedom as you're flying or skiing down something and grandiose reveals, that really gets shat on by having those grandiose reveals running at 10 frames per second.

01:32:28.052 --> 01:32:36.232

Phil: The other question I was going to ask is, could this new enjoyment of the game be some sort of change inside of you as a person over the intervening years?

01:32:36.572 --> 01:32:43.932

Phil: Or possibly, are you wearing rose-tinted glasses because of how favorably you enjoyed Sky?

01:32:45.092 --> 01:32:55.052

Tom: I think it's not necessarily either of those things, but I think it is a acquired taste and my appreciation for it.

01:32:55.112 --> 01:33:06.112

Tom: I'm more open to appreciating it based not so much on Sky as the interviews I saw with Jenova Chen.

01:33:07.232 --> 01:33:28.232

Tom: And on top of that, I would also argue that probably I was also a little bit annoyed by the commentary that some of the game got, which I don't think I was necessarily wrong because the way it was described, that is not my experience of it at all.

01:33:30.152 --> 01:33:39.152

Tom: It's not this Zen-like experience of otherworldly mind expansion.

01:33:39.852 --> 01:34:09.792

Tom: To me, it is appreciating something that is visually beautiful and orally beautiful and that plays with those things in terms of a very basic gameplay loop of slowing you down and allowing you some freedom to fly around more freely, which was not the sense of the game that I got at the time at all.

01:34:11.092 --> 01:34:13.712

Phil: You would have been able to hear the game just as well.

01:34:13.732 --> 01:34:16.292

Phil: Did that also slow down when you played it the first time?

01:34:16.352 --> 01:34:18.672

Tom: The sound sometimes also slowed down.

01:34:19.792 --> 01:34:27.692

Tom: And some of the criticism of the sound I still have, I don't think that the grandiose moments are really...

01:34:27.952 --> 01:34:33.452

Tom: that the music does not live up to the visuals or the gameplay of the grandiose moments.

01:34:33.712 --> 01:34:46.932

Tom: But this time I appreciated the music in the slower moments and it really carried you through them and kept your interest where you could be getting really bored out of your mind.

01:34:47.612 --> 01:34:52.952

Tom: And I think that was the strength of the music and I don't think it's a failing that it didn't live up to the grandiose moments.

01:34:52.972 --> 01:35:02.632

Tom: I think it knew that it should get out of the way and let how the game looked be the focus and the freedom of flying be the focus.

01:35:08.467 --> 01:35:09.567

Phil: I'm just letting you go here.

01:35:10.027 --> 01:35:11.647

Tom: Okay, well, that was the end of that statement.

01:35:12.107 --> 01:35:12.587

Phil: Okay.

01:35:14.407 --> 01:35:15.667

Tom: I'm seeing if I have anything else.

01:35:16.147 --> 01:35:16.387

Phil: Yeah.

01:35:17.967 --> 01:35:20.327

Phil: Because I've got to see Quinn before she goes to sleep.

01:35:20.767 --> 01:35:21.887

Phil: Yep.

01:35:22.007 --> 01:35:24.127

Phil: So I figured we'd do this, then Sky.

01:35:25.487 --> 01:35:27.607

Tom: I think that's probably all I have to say about Journey.

01:35:28.087 --> 01:35:28.507

Phil: Okay.

01:35:28.787 --> 01:35:31.427

Tom: And Sky should be a short following on from that.

01:35:31.707 --> 01:35:39.327

Phil: Yep, and then I want to just do some promotion on The Game Under site for what we've done since the last show.

01:35:40.447 --> 01:35:43.627

Phil: So we'll have to wrap up your impression of Journey.

01:35:44.847 --> 01:35:46.727

Tom: That is the end of my Journey impressions.

01:35:46.967 --> 01:35:50.507

Phil: Yeah, I know it's the end of your impressions, but you've got to put a bow on it somehow.

01:35:54.907 --> 01:35:55.847

Phil: So I'll just pick up here.

01:35:57.507 --> 01:36:06.947

Phil: So obviously you enjoyed the experience of The Game much more, and you don't think that that was influenced by how much you appreciate and enjoy it.

01:36:07.007 --> 01:36:11.287

Phil: You enjoy Sky, but just more of an awareness of where the creators were coming from.

01:36:12.207 --> 01:36:16.247

Phil: I went into Journey Hostile because I hated Flow and I hated Flower.

01:36:16.847 --> 01:36:26.587

Phil: I liked Flower a little bit better than Flow, but not by much because it relied on six axis controls and they were absolutely horrible and the game was barely playable.

01:36:27.127 --> 01:36:29.907

Phil: And so I actually quite enjoyed Journey when I played it.

01:36:30.227 --> 01:36:32.407

Phil: I found it to be a good game at the time.

01:36:34.047 --> 01:36:46.527

Phil: I was distracted, as were you, with the hype-like critical praise it was receiving, but I still thought it was probably my top ten of games for that year because it was so unique and different and well executed.

01:36:48.747 --> 01:36:52.847

Phil: So you're now leaving Journey with a favorable impression.

01:36:53.307 --> 01:37:09.747

Tom: Yeah, I ended up really, really enjoying it and I would agree with your impressions of it at the time much more now and it certainly stands out as an original and iconic game of that generation.

01:37:09.767 --> 01:37:17.667

Tom: I think it does indeed deserve praise even if the praise didn't necessarily describe it particularly well.

01:37:17.867 --> 01:37:29.547

Tom: And definitely I will say I had better experiences with other players this time and you can really see similarities with what they were doing in Sky there.

01:37:29.807 --> 01:37:42.707

Tom: Sky is very much built on journey with less of a focus on the slowing you down and letting you then reach grandiose peaks.

01:37:43.907 --> 01:37:47.907

Tom: But still very much the dynamic of other players is there in Sky.

01:37:48.567 --> 01:37:57.347

Phil: I just went to our never updated or used scores archive on The Game under.net and I gave it a 9 out of 10 in 2013.

01:37:57.407 --> 01:38:00.787

Phil: And you can listen to my impressions of the game in episode 22.

01:38:02.567 --> 01:38:03.707

Tom: Did I give it a score?

01:38:04.167 --> 01:38:04.827

Phil: You did not.

01:38:05.467 --> 01:38:07.187

Tom: I've got to give it a score now, I just realised.

01:38:07.207 --> 01:38:08.847

Tom: And I just got the dice to do so.

01:38:12.547 --> 01:38:17.627

Tom: And it gets a 9, no, an 8 out of 10.

01:38:18.367 --> 01:38:19.447

Phil: 8 out of 10, very good.

01:38:19.467 --> 01:38:22.087

Phil: I'll add that to the scores archive.

01:38:23.367 --> 01:38:29.407

Phil: And yeah, I just clicked on the link for episode 22, which I think was called Jenova's Witness.

01:38:30.907 --> 01:38:32.927

Phil: And I actually gave it a long review.

01:38:32.947 --> 01:38:38.867

Phil: It went from minute 17 to minute 35, and then we spent four hours in a Killzone minute.

01:38:39.107 --> 01:38:42.267

Phil: So, sounds typical to the time.

01:38:42.807 --> 01:38:45.287

Phil: The name of that episode was indeed Jenova's Witness.

01:38:45.487 --> 01:38:47.087

Phil: So, that's great.

01:38:47.107 --> 01:38:48.687

Phil: So, you are now Jenova's Witness.

01:38:48.847 --> 01:38:50.487

Tom: Yes, I am a believer.

01:38:51.067 --> 01:39:01.287

Phil: You are going to give us final impressions of your game, Sky, even though it's hard to imagine, given that you have given such wonderful full impressions prior in the written form and on this podcast.

01:39:01.427 --> 01:39:12.727

Tom: Yes, well, I can now give final impressions, given that I have unlocked all of the elders, which I believe means that I have technically finished the game.

01:39:13.827 --> 01:39:17.147

Tom: And a couple of things to note.

01:39:18.067 --> 01:39:31.067

Tom: I don't really need to go into much details or impressions, but it is basically a MMORPG, so it has been a fascinating experience watching the game change over its lifetime.

01:39:31.107 --> 01:39:35.087

Tom: It must be getting on to being about a year old now or around that.

01:39:35.807 --> 01:39:37.047

Phil: Oh, more, I'd say, yeah.

01:39:37.047 --> 01:39:58.487

Tom: Yep, and when you get to a certain level, the interest in the game, other than trying to be as efficient as possible in collecting candles and making friendships to trade hearts with people, is looking for glitches and exploits and things like that.

01:39:58.567 --> 01:40:04.767

Tom: And a lot of it has seemed like it is deliberate, and a lot of it has seemed like it isn't.

01:40:05.187 --> 01:40:29.607

Tom: But that has made for a really fascinating and interesting high-level play from one of the better terms, where you're able to find random candles in an area that you're not meant to get to from a level, random old spirits from former seasons that shouldn't be there, floating in the air.

01:40:31.547 --> 01:40:47.387

Tom: Again, in another area you're not meant to get to, how to get into an area that is meant to be a place to reward beta players and people that have bought a certain cape to support the company using glitches, things like that.

01:40:47.507 --> 01:41:00.407

Tom: And if that's deliberate, it is a brilliant way of doing high-level play, but one does suspect that perhaps it isn't, given that a lot of the stuff often gets fixed on and off.

01:41:00.927 --> 01:41:13.247

Tom: So maybe it is a happy accident that once you've been playing for a long time, you get to explore and break the game in interesting ways that are beneficial and fun.

01:41:13.467 --> 01:41:20.167

Tom: There are other things that are certainly deliberate that they have been adding to later seasons.

01:41:20.187 --> 01:41:24.227

Tom: For instance, I should add the seasons as they've gone along.

01:41:24.727 --> 01:41:32.547

Tom: To begin with, each season was at least a month long, and I think they have all been $15.

01:41:32.667 --> 01:41:45.747

Tom: And if you pay $15, what you end up with is getting extra items from the season and extra candles as you play and an extra candle by default each day.

01:41:46.107 --> 01:41:55.507

Tom: As they've gone along, the seasons have lengthened out to the point from 30 to 40 to now 60 days.

01:41:56.147 --> 01:42:11.447

Tom: And $15 to me is a bit ridiculous given that some of the seasons were just one month and essentially all they added was a spirit that you found in the normal areas of the game and a few extra items.

01:42:11.467 --> 01:42:14.787

Tom: That seemed like not really good value for money.

01:42:15.067 --> 01:42:18.507

Tom: But the latter seasons, the stories have got more complex.

01:42:18.767 --> 01:42:26.947

Tom: They've added areas with them and the spirits have been in the new areas and they're also significantly longer and also have more items.

01:42:26.967 --> 01:42:30.647

Tom: So it's more of a reasonable price now.

01:42:30.787 --> 01:42:42.747

Tom: And one of the most interesting things about the later season, which again one wonders if it was deliberate or not, but basically you could get to it before the season was out.

01:42:42.767 --> 01:42:45.047

Tom: You could get to the new area and go around.

01:42:46.607 --> 01:42:55.147

Tom: And in the area, there was a mechanic that was completely unlike anything else in the game, which was mushroom picking.

01:42:55.167 --> 01:43:08.447

Tom: There were two mushrooms floating around in the sky and with some really awkward flying or placing tables in the air, you could pick these mushrooms, each of which was worth a single candle.

01:43:08.847 --> 01:43:16.767

Tom: And there were two underground in the level, which you could get to through getting through a glitched hole in a wall.

01:43:17.347 --> 01:43:24.507

Tom: And when you were there, it featured one of the most difficult things in the game and one of the most fun things to do.

01:43:24.707 --> 01:43:34.487

Tom: Basically, you had a tiny little triangle of water, which you end up in after getting through the wall.

01:43:34.987 --> 01:43:39.067

Tom: And if you're in water, your light immediately starts depleting.

01:43:39.087 --> 01:43:41.527

Tom: Your light is the energy that you use to fly.

01:43:42.047 --> 01:43:49.047

Tom: If you go outside of that triangle, you fall off the map down and you end up back in the level where you're meant to be.

01:43:49.387 --> 01:43:54.687

Tom: There are two candles in the air, some distance away from the triangle.

01:43:55.307 --> 01:44:07.347

Tom: And like some areas in the game, when you're flying here, you can only fly in the fast way of flying, where you're basically flying like an aeroplane rather than a helicopter.

01:44:07.367 --> 01:44:10.107

Tom: Those are basically the two different ways the flying works.

01:44:12.987 --> 01:44:15.567

Tom: When you're flying like that, you can't pick the mushrooms.

01:44:15.867 --> 01:44:26.647

Tom: You have to be stationary, or at least flying vertically up and down to be able to pick them, which is impossible because you're stuck in the aeroplane mode of flying.

01:44:26.667 --> 01:44:58.347

Tom: What you have to do, and it is technically possible by yourself, but virtually impossible, is either build a bridge of tables from the water to the mushroom with one other friend placing tables with you, or many other friends if you want to be faster, or fly through the air, place a table, fly around in the air, try and land on the table, and then build a bridge from closer to it, or attempt to place the bridge right where the mushrooms are.

01:44:58.427 --> 01:45:13.427

Tom: It was by far the most difficult flying required in the game, and the most fun, and it was the best use of other players, and particularly your friends as well.

01:45:13.507 --> 01:45:26.347

Tom: So stuff like that has been great, but it's hard to tell whether it's deliberate or not, given that halfway through the season, they removed the mushrooms in an update.

01:45:26.987 --> 01:45:33.807

Tom: And the update that removed the mushrooms has been a general negative.

01:45:34.047 --> 01:45:37.987

Tom: It's altered the way you do a loud call.

01:45:38.207 --> 01:45:40.127

Tom: It's made it extremely awkward to do.

01:45:40.727 --> 01:45:50.987

Tom: It's meant that when you call, you can't see other players, only they can see you, which has made it feel like much less of a multiplayer game.

01:45:51.007 --> 01:45:55.987

Tom: It also means you don't know if there are many people around who might be able to help you open doors.

01:45:56.427 --> 01:46:07.707

Tom: It's made it more difficult to walk to your friends because the only way, when they're in a level with you, because the only way to do that now is through a deep call first, and deep calling is super awkward.

01:46:09.007 --> 01:46:12.967

Tom: There have been server issues with separating you from players as well.

01:46:13.867 --> 01:46:30.547

Tom: So, over the length of the game, as you would expect in an MMORPG, there have been ups and downs, but still, I would say that it definitely lives up to its place as the fifth best game of the decade.

01:46:31.767 --> 01:46:33.947

Phil: Yeah, it was released in July of last year.

01:46:33.967 --> 01:46:38.507

Phil: It's now available on Android, and it is cross-playable across those platforms.

01:46:38.527 --> 01:46:40.787

Tom: Yep, I know many Android players on it.

01:46:40.807 --> 01:46:42.787

Phil: Yep, and it's going to be coming...

01:46:43.027 --> 01:46:54.007

Phil: Things have been disrupted, obviously, but it was supposed to be coming to Switch and PlayStation 4 in the summer in the Northern Hemisphere, so hopefully that will still happen, and I'll pick it up on the Switch at that point.

01:46:55.887 --> 01:47:05.587

Phil: Yeah, because certainly it's got a lot of good things going for it, including it was written by Jenny Kong, which I think was one of the playable characters in Donkey Kong Country 3.

01:47:06.747 --> 01:47:26.967

Tom: And I should also add another good thing they've done is they've had double heart events, where when you trade with people, you get two hearts, and extra candle events as well, which really make the grinding nature of the game less of a pain at times.

01:47:26.987 --> 01:47:30.667

Tom: So they're always something to look forward to.

01:47:30.687 --> 01:47:46.907

Tom: And they've also had spirits from former seasons return, so if you didn't get the seasonal pass, or you were unable to get that spirit and their items in that season, you still have a chance of getting them in the future.

01:47:47.047 --> 01:47:55.727

Tom: They are tremendously expensive, so the purpose is obviously to get people to buy candles, but it's still a nice gesture to have.

01:47:55.747 --> 01:48:07.227

Tom: And once you have got everything, it also gives you something to look forward to and a reason to continue playing and getting normal candles rather than just the season related stuff.

01:48:07.247 --> 01:48:09.787

Phil: Okay, well is that it for Sky for now?

01:48:09.927 --> 01:48:39.487

Tom: The last thing I have to bring up is, and I wonder if this extends to mobile games in general, and there is evidence to suggest it would, is once you get to know people in the game, you realise that this is the reverse of PC gaming, where in PC gaming and console gaming, I should add, the assumption is that everyone is a man or boy and anyone claiming otherwise is fake.

01:48:40.327 --> 01:48:48.667

Tom: And if they are, even if they are a real girl, it's a momentous, shocking event that is just incomprehensible.

01:48:49.527 --> 01:49:03.767

Tom: The vast, vast majority of the people that I know on Sky are all female, and many of them are shocked and disbelieving at my claims to be male sometimes.

01:49:03.787 --> 01:49:09.727

Tom: So this gender-based reaction is not limited to males.

01:49:10.087 --> 01:49:28.127

Tom: But the fascinating thing is that not only are many of these people on the game females, many, many of them also play on their mobile phones games like Call of Duty and Poo, or some people call it PUBG.

01:49:29.527 --> 01:49:41.387

Tom: So I wonder if the main reason for the gender disparity in console and PC gaming might not be so much the content as the platform itself.

01:49:41.807 --> 01:49:46.267

Phil: Yeah, it's the platform itself and you see that with the Kindle e-reader as well.

01:49:47.187 --> 01:49:59.367

Phil: The e-reader, the Kindle, because it doesn't have a cover, has enabled women and many people to start reading books that otherwise feel embarrassed to be reading on the bus or the subway or whatever.

01:49:59.907 --> 01:50:09.287

Phil: And I think if you look like you're checking in on Facebook where you can play whatever game you want, you're not going to get judged to be a gamer girl or someone who's playing video games.

01:50:09.767 --> 01:50:10.327

Tom: Exactly.

01:50:10.387 --> 01:50:12.347

Phil: There's a lot of stereotypes around that.

01:50:13.567 --> 01:50:17.267

Phil: With that, are you done with Sky in terms of your impressions?

01:50:17.727 --> 01:50:18.387

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:50:20.347 --> 01:50:32.307

Tom: So if something new comes up, we'll talk about it, but that's the extent, that's the small details that need to be added from playing an online multiplayer game for a long period of time.

01:50:32.667 --> 01:50:34.867

Phil: Yeah, it's great.

01:50:34.887 --> 01:50:43.827

Tom: It has its ups and downs, but it is nevertheless retaining much of the things that makes it great over time.

01:50:44.367 --> 01:50:47.067

Phil: And we'll talk about it when I pick it up on Switch, no doubt.

01:50:47.267 --> 01:50:50.107

Phil: And if it has cross-play, maybe you can help me out.

01:50:50.527 --> 01:50:51.167

Tom: Well, it should.

01:50:51.607 --> 01:50:53.147

Tom: It's full of Android players now.

01:50:53.767 --> 01:50:54.687

Phil: Yeah, that's great.

01:50:54.767 --> 01:51:08.987

Phil: So I don't want to rush you, but I did want to remind everyone since the last podcast, episode 1-2-3, I have put up, speaking of SNES games, the lore of Namco's 1993 vehicle combat game Battle Cars.

01:51:09.047 --> 01:51:11.287

Phil: And you've got to check out that box art.

01:51:11.407 --> 01:51:12.107

Phil: It's amazing.

01:51:13.947 --> 01:51:18.107

Phil: You have put a impression of a game called Ghostrunner.

01:51:19.827 --> 01:51:20.687

Tom: Another demo.

01:51:21.367 --> 01:51:21.627

Phil: Yep.

01:51:22.067 --> 01:51:23.107

Phil: And another demo.

01:51:23.127 --> 01:51:23.767

Phil: But that's all right.

01:51:24.527 --> 01:51:27.267

Phil: It's just as good as the first impression of a game.

01:51:27.427 --> 01:51:36.347

Phil: And then I put up episode 1-24, which I left off some obituaries, but basically it's a short 45-minute show which has our obituaries.

01:51:36.367 --> 01:51:39.907

Phil: There's one creepy moment where we're obiturizing...

01:51:42.187 --> 01:51:42.867

Phil: What's his name?

01:51:43.167 --> 01:51:43.927

Phil: The fan number.

01:51:44.427 --> 01:51:47.847

Phil: Again, disrespecting his memory here by forgetting his name.

01:51:47.867 --> 01:51:50.567

Phil: Yamauchi, the CEO.

01:51:50.627 --> 01:51:54.667

Phil: And I said, yeah, he's dead, and one day we'll be doing an obituary of Iwata.

01:51:55.867 --> 01:51:56.707

Tom: One day we were.

01:51:56.987 --> 01:51:57.787

Phil: One day we were.

01:51:58.367 --> 01:51:59.747

Phil: So that's worth a short listen.

01:51:59.767 --> 01:52:03.807

Tom: I should add random acts still holds up.

01:52:05.467 --> 01:52:06.407

Phil: Okay, yep.

01:52:06.647 --> 01:52:11.667

Phil: And then the other thing I was really amazed by and interested in was this art of the rally.

01:52:13.107 --> 01:52:24.547

Phil: Maybe we can talk about that on the next show, but if you can't wait, go to gameunder.net, link on, hit on the top story, art of the rally or art of rally demo that you wrote about.

01:52:26.147 --> 01:52:28.487

Tom: Did we ever talk about Absolute Drift on the show?

01:52:28.507 --> 01:52:29.807

Phil: No, we didn't.

01:52:31.067 --> 01:52:32.647

Tom: That's a strange omission.

01:52:33.367 --> 01:52:39.887

Phil: Yeah, well, we've got enough content for another show already, I think, here, so maybe we'll be back again soon-ish, hopefully.

01:52:41.747 --> 01:52:55.527

Phil: And then I'll also edit on the 15-minute review I gave of Journey from episode 22 to the end of this show as well, so stick around for that if you're interested in listening to a really poor quality audio recording from seven years ago.

01:52:55.547 --> 01:52:58.907

Phil: Even worse content.

01:52:59.067 --> 01:53:00.927

Phil: And to younger hosts.

01:53:01.167 --> 01:53:03.307

Phil: So with that, I thank you for joining me.

01:53:03.427 --> 01:53:04.567

Phil: I am Phil Fogg.

01:53:05.227 --> 01:53:17.107

Tom: I'm Tom Towers, and I should add, we did not stop at episode 70 or whenever we were supposed to and hold out for our fanfunding, I'm sorry to say.

01:53:17.287 --> 01:53:18.347

Tom: That's pretty pathetic.

01:53:18.767 --> 01:53:21.907

Phil: I believe the fanfunding will come soon.

01:53:23.487 --> 01:53:24.267

Tom: Any day now.

01:53:24.667 --> 01:53:25.327

Phil: Any day now.

01:53:25.367 --> 01:53:27.687

Phil: Here's episode 22 where we talk about Journey.

01:53:31.887 --> 01:53:32.727

Tom: That's a shame then.

01:53:32.807 --> 01:53:35.787

Phil: Yeah, it is, but you know, I wasn't really expecting it.

01:53:35.807 --> 01:53:37.407

Phil: I bought this just so I could play Journey.

01:53:37.967 --> 01:53:38.887

Tom: Yeah, true.

01:53:38.907 --> 01:53:41.167

Phil: So I'm going to continue this monologue.

01:53:41.187 --> 01:53:46.247

Phil: People are going to be sick of hearing my voice, but we'll go on with Journey.

01:53:46.327 --> 01:53:48.007

Phil: Now, you have played this game.

01:53:48.027 --> 01:53:49.127

Phil: Have you reviewed it anywhere?

01:53:49.867 --> 01:54:01.727

Tom: I have not reviewed it, but not on this podcast, but on one of the last episodes, or rather most recent, fingers crossed, episodes of the VG Press with Arnie.

01:54:02.187 --> 01:54:04.687

Tom: We did pretty in-depth impressions on it.

01:54:04.907 --> 01:54:10.887

Phil: That's right, in episode 136 of The Press Room, available at thevgpress.com.

01:54:11.447 --> 01:54:20.827

Phil: Now, I edited that show, but I didn't appear on it, and I don't remember your impressions of it, so why don't you give me a break and tell me, recap to our listeners, what you thought of it.

01:54:21.747 --> 01:54:23.427

Tom: Well, here's the thing.

01:54:23.887 --> 01:54:37.907

Tom: Going into it, on the VG Press, there had been this hilarious reaction to the game where basically everyone either thought it was literally the greatest game ever created or the worst game ever created.

01:54:38.447 --> 01:54:45.947

Tom: So going into it, I had huge expectations for it, either to be total and utter shit or completely awesome, right?

01:54:46.347 --> 01:54:54.107

Tom: And generally when there's something that people either love or hate, I'm almost always on the love end of the scale.

01:54:54.627 --> 01:54:55.067

Phil: Really?

01:54:55.087 --> 01:55:03.027

Tom: Here though, when I actually did eventually play it, my reaction was, you could say disappointment, but I would say apathy.

01:55:03.827 --> 01:55:15.007

Tom: It just didn't, nothing in it grabbed me, and the thing that most bothered me about it was, throughout the entire game, it is screaming on the top of its voice that this is not a game.

01:55:15.027 --> 01:55:21.767

Tom: This is something new, innovative, cool and awesome, and you should probably suck our dicks because we're that fucking awesome.

01:55:22.327 --> 01:55:31.747

Tom: Yet at the same time, there was so much gamey shit in there that just completely ate away at all the interesting presentation things that they were doing.

01:55:32.067 --> 01:55:53.007

Tom: Like the stupid fucking invisible walls and the incredibly obnoxious way they tried to cover them up and the really stupid gamey puzzles and things like that just bothered me so much because the presentation, a general tone of the game was saying that we're not doing this stuff, and yet they blatantly are.

01:55:53.307 --> 01:55:55.147

Phil: So now, there's probably plenty of...

01:55:55.487 --> 01:55:59.467

Tom: Which probably sounds much harsher than my actual reaction, but I did enjoy it.

01:55:59.847 --> 01:56:01.727

Phil: You did enjoy the actual gameplay of it.

01:56:02.327 --> 01:56:09.187

Phil: And we have plenty of listeners who probably haven't played this because it was a Sony exclusive and will ever be.

01:56:10.507 --> 01:56:16.547

Phil: And it's made by That Game Company, which was founded by Genova Chen and Kelly Santiago.

01:56:16.567 --> 01:56:19.707

Phil: They went through USC's game development school.

01:56:20.367 --> 01:56:23.167

Phil: And they're a small team based in Los Angeles.

01:56:24.107 --> 01:56:26.767

Phil: And basically, it's a...

01:56:26.947 --> 01:56:33.187

Phil: If you take Flow and Flower, it's an evolution of those two things.

01:56:33.207 --> 01:56:37.347

Phil: So Flow was a 2D game where you went around eating stuff and you grew a long tail.

01:56:37.767 --> 01:56:41.387

Phil: Flower was a 3D game where you fly around growing, you know, getting a tail.

01:56:41.887 --> 01:56:46.107

Phil: In this game, they actually put you on the ground in a humanoid figure.

01:56:46.127 --> 01:56:51.307

Phil: So you're not some microscopic fish thing or you're not some colors of the wind.

01:56:51.687 --> 01:56:55.307

Phil: You're an actual humanoid with legs that you can control.

01:56:55.327 --> 01:56:55.927

Tom: Wait, wait, wait.

01:56:55.947 --> 01:56:56.987

Tom: Towers of the Wind.

01:56:57.027 --> 01:56:59.047

Tom: That's an indie game waiting to happen.

01:56:59.287 --> 01:57:03.387

Phil: I think Disney probably has something to say about that.

01:57:04.187 --> 01:57:06.907

Phil: The good thing is they go back to dual analog stick control.

01:57:07.147 --> 01:57:10.687

Phil: So it's like traditional controls of a humanoid.

01:57:10.787 --> 01:57:18.967

Phil: And basically you start the game and your goal is to walk from one side of this world to another, in effect describing the title Journey.

01:57:19.887 --> 01:57:28.187

Phil: So I would say that the gameplay, basically if Flower is a flight sim, this is a SSX type game.

01:57:28.207 --> 01:57:36.107

Phil: This is a snowboarding game, which is really funny when you consider the highfalutin setting and message behind the game.

01:57:36.887 --> 01:57:40.627

Tom: SSX in reverse, basically, because you're going up the hill instead of down it.

01:57:40.947 --> 01:57:42.547

Phil: Yeah, you're going up and down hills.

01:57:42.567 --> 01:57:45.387

Phil: I mean you walk up the hills and you can surf down them.

01:57:45.627 --> 01:57:48.587

Tom: Yeah, but the general intent is to go up.

01:57:49.187 --> 01:57:49.547

Tom: That's...

01:57:50.607 --> 01:57:51.667

Tom: That's where the game ends.

01:57:51.967 --> 01:57:54.267

Phil: Yeah, I guess so, at the very end.

01:57:54.667 --> 01:57:58.247

Phil: And you will get to the end fairly quickly.

01:57:58.267 --> 01:57:59.667

Phil: It's only a 70-minute game.

01:57:59.707 --> 01:58:03.567

Phil: I thought that the surfing aspect of the game was quite satisfying.

01:58:03.807 --> 01:58:04.227

Phil: Indeed.

01:58:04.307 --> 01:58:05.767

Phil: I think they did a very good job.

01:58:05.787 --> 01:58:07.507

Tom: The sand was awesome.

01:58:07.627 --> 01:58:09.067

Phil: The sand was amazing.

01:58:09.087 --> 01:58:12.567

Phil: They got the physics of the sand down perfectly, I thought.

01:58:12.587 --> 01:58:13.947

Phil: And also the sense of...

01:58:14.127 --> 01:58:31.587

Tom: It's even funnier after watching the documentary, the behind-the-scenes feature on Uncharted 3, where there's this humongous game with like $20 million spent on it and talking for like one hour on how amazing their sand physics is.

01:58:31.787 --> 01:58:37.767

Tom: Then That Game Company comes along with a couple of hundred thousand, maybe a few million and just shits all over them.

01:58:37.767 --> 01:58:39.107

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

01:58:39.287 --> 01:58:48.067

Phil: And the Santa Monica Studio, the God of War Sony Studio does provide some assistance to That Game Company, we should add.

01:58:48.307 --> 01:58:51.667

Phil: They might be standing on the shoulders of giants for some of this stuff.

01:58:52.427 --> 01:59:00.727

Phil: Certainly the stuff that they do in-house, the actual concept and art and music and the basic programming.

01:59:01.667 --> 01:59:04.867

Phil: But the fit and finish on this game is top shelf.

01:59:05.047 --> 01:59:31.087

Phil: I mean, this is, if you want to look at something that's been well constructed in terms of its presentation, and as I said about the last game, production values, this is really a showpiece that Sony has shined as a signpost of, look at what a video game can be from everything from, you know, the custom fonts and the menu layout to its presentation, which is, you know, dreamlike.

01:59:31.207 --> 01:59:33.447

Phil: It's basically a lucid dream type setting.

01:59:34.747 --> 01:59:53.827

Phil: So I thought that the actual physical gameplay of surfing around was fun, and then also you can walk around and hop on the scarf of your friend, and this is perhaps the most notable thing about the game, is it has a really passive online multiplayer.

01:59:54.227 --> 02:00:00.727

Phil: The only way to really play this game and get the most out of it is to play online multiplayer, and that is basically just a sign on the PSN.

02:00:01.627 --> 02:00:09.247

Phil: During the course of the game, you'll see other people just turn up, and they won't have their PSN IDs floating above their heads.

02:00:09.267 --> 02:00:12.587

Phil: There's nothing to really say that they are a human at all.

02:00:13.327 --> 02:00:17.347

Phil: In fact, when I first interacted with them, I wasn't sure if this was just...

02:00:17.807 --> 02:00:20.867

Phil: I assumed, in fact, that this was just the game AI.

02:00:20.887 --> 02:00:22.327

Phil: These were non-playable characters.

02:00:22.407 --> 02:00:28.647

Phil: But after walking along with one of these for a while, it was very clear that this was some other human being.

02:00:29.627 --> 02:00:33.047

Phil: Because the AI was not AI.

02:00:33.887 --> 02:00:42.927

Phil: And it was actually revealing to see how bad AI is in games, because as soon as you see a human actor that you thought was an NPC, you're like, that's just too...

02:00:43.627 --> 02:00:47.427

Phil: Yeah, you can tell immediately that this is a real human, not a bot.

02:00:48.067 --> 02:00:51.327

Phil: And that was really kind of shocking, because it was so seamless.

02:00:51.547 --> 02:01:05.587

Phil: Because you know, as we've gone on before, whenever we've gone to play online, particularly on PSN, it's usually like a big, long ordeal of Skyping each other, finding the lobbies, invites, the whole thing.

02:01:05.607 --> 02:01:21.467

Phil: And what this small company has been able to do is basically take the archaic infrastructure of PSN and provide this flawless online multiplayer where, even if you don't like playing online, you're going to enjoy this, and it's going to touch you and move you in a way.

02:01:21.947 --> 02:01:23.507

Phil: So I thought that was notable.

02:01:23.747 --> 02:01:24.427

Tom: Indeed, agreed.

02:01:24.447 --> 02:01:29.027

Tom: That was easily the best part of the game, and I had no problems with that whatsoever.

02:01:29.047 --> 02:01:39.347

Tom: Except, I think I said I would have liked, if it was possible, to also specifically play with a friend, but that's not a criticism of what was actually there.

02:01:39.367 --> 02:01:44.247

Phil: One of the things they talked about in the making of, and by the way, this is an excellent collector's edition.

02:01:44.267 --> 02:01:46.187

Phil: We've talked about some duds recently.

02:01:47.127 --> 02:01:49.287

Phil: This is a great collection.

02:01:49.307 --> 02:01:55.387

Phil: They've got the full soundtrack, which they make exportable to USB, and the artwork.

02:01:55.547 --> 02:02:00.167

Phil: So there's an option right there where you can just get the soundtrack and the artwork off of the disc.

02:02:01.127 --> 02:02:03.547

Phil: It's got game commentaries from various people.

02:02:03.667 --> 02:02:06.347

Phil: You can pick who you want to listen to, and videos as well.

02:02:07.347 --> 02:02:08.267

Phil: It includes three...

02:02:08.767 --> 02:02:10.607

Phil: I'm reading bullet points, people, can you tell?

02:02:11.067 --> 02:02:14.967

Phil: It's got three additional mini games on there that they made at a game jam.

02:02:15.867 --> 02:02:17.667

Phil: Yeah, making of video.

02:02:18.367 --> 02:02:19.907

Phil: It's all really well done.

02:02:20.347 --> 02:02:36.767

Phil: What they were talking about in that making of video, Kelly Santiago was talking about how when you walk along a trail, and you are out bush walking or whatever, in the city if you walk past someone, you don't say hello to them, right?

02:02:36.787 --> 02:02:43.227

Phil: But if you're walking along a bush trail and you haven't seen someone for 20 minutes and someone else comes along, you know, you're sharing something.

02:02:43.247 --> 02:02:51.227

Phil: And you'll say hello to them or smile or some small comment, because there's something that you're both sharing that no one else is experiencing at that time.

02:02:51.247 --> 02:03:13.787

Phil: So I think that the reason why they don't let you pick who you go along with is because the very fact that you're sharing this secret or this journey with a stranger somehow makes it much more intimate and touching, as opposed to doing it with your buddies, where you could be goofing off all the time or talking over Skype with each other, saying, oh, well, isn't this shitty?

02:03:13.927 --> 02:03:16.307

Phil: Or, you know, this sort of stuff.

02:03:16.907 --> 02:03:19.307

Tom: But here's an idea for you to consider.

02:03:20.067 --> 02:03:23.047

Tom: What if you could unlock the ability to play with someone you know?

02:03:23.547 --> 02:03:28.207

Phil: I was just about to say, yeah, after you've beaten the game once, it would be great if that wasn't unlockable.

02:03:29.807 --> 02:03:43.967

Phil: I think the other reason, perhaps the real reason, is obviously this would then create a higher level of, perhaps, programming and development time and all the rest of it.

02:03:43.987 --> 02:03:53.807

Tom: Another thing to consider would also be, would mean that you will get less people for the normal multiplayer, because you will get more people who's playing through it a second or third time.

02:03:55.107 --> 02:03:56.047

Phil: And it's really cool.

02:03:56.067 --> 02:04:02.867

Phil: Like I said, there's no PSN IDs until after the credits roll, and then they show you who you went along with this journey with.

02:04:04.907 --> 02:04:06.367

Phil: And I thought that's notable.

02:04:06.687 --> 02:04:11.647

Phil: I thought what was groundbreaking was the communication that you have with this other person.

02:04:12.587 --> 02:04:14.627

Phil: You can only make this peeping noise.

02:04:15.107 --> 02:04:16.427

Phil: It's like a beep, basically.

02:04:16.447 --> 02:04:19.467

Phil: It's a single tone to let the player know something.

02:04:19.547 --> 02:04:22.567

Phil: So, you know, you can...

02:04:22.787 --> 02:04:27.967

Phil: And just how amazing it was to be able to communicate all these very different things with just this one beep.

02:04:28.907 --> 02:04:42.187

Phil: So, you know, if something dramatic just happened and you just evaded a boss, then you'll sound like a couple of birds chattering away because you'll be all beep, and then the other person will be all beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

02:04:43.147 --> 02:04:49.587

Phil: And I found that to be wonderful, and it was somewhat amazing to me that you could communicate so much.

02:04:49.607 --> 02:04:52.527

Phil: So, you might say thank you, and they might say you're welcome.

02:04:52.847 --> 02:04:58.707

Phil: And you're just using this one beep, but you know what they're saying and they know what you're saying somehow.

02:04:59.727 --> 02:05:13.667

Phil: And it really made me felt like now when I listen to birds, you know, how much challenging or how much joy can come from that, because they're communicating all these things just with a few simple tones and not having a real vocabulary.

02:05:13.847 --> 02:05:16.687

Tom: Well, that depends on the bird species, of course.

02:05:17.407 --> 02:05:18.387

Phil: Yeah, it does.

02:05:19.087 --> 02:05:22.547

Phil: But, you know, I'm just thinking like, I thought that was a really great thing.

02:05:24.187 --> 02:05:33.867

Phil: And for a game to bring me a couple of very new and different experiences was, you know, obviously very notable for me.

02:05:33.887 --> 02:05:34.127

Phil: Yep.

02:05:35.147 --> 02:05:36.287

Tom: I can see where this is going.

02:05:36.947 --> 02:05:39.087

Phil: Yeah, I think it was brilliantly done.

02:05:39.187 --> 02:05:41.367

Phil: I think this is the thing.

02:05:42.427 --> 02:05:45.427

Phil: I was amazed to find out that this was a Western company that made this game.

02:05:46.107 --> 02:05:47.647

Phil: And as a result, yeah.

02:05:48.407 --> 02:05:49.707

Tom: Seems very Western to me.

02:05:49.967 --> 02:05:53.167

Phil: To me, it seems very Japanese.

02:05:53.847 --> 02:05:54.307

Tom: How come?

02:05:54.467 --> 02:05:59.327

Phil: Because you might remember a time when Japanese games were weird and quirky and innovative.

02:06:01.427 --> 02:06:06.847

Phil: And Western games were by the book, sports games, shooters, that sort of thing.

02:06:06.867 --> 02:06:11.107

Tom: Okay, so as opposed to there being some sort of cultural thread that you picked up upon.

02:06:12.147 --> 02:06:12.807

Phil: Exactly.

02:06:12.907 --> 02:06:13.327

Tom: Gotcha.

02:06:13.347 --> 02:06:14.007

Phil: Exactly.

02:06:14.167 --> 02:06:21.687

Phil: Even though Jenova Chen does speaking in English as a second language, which is why he says he doesn't include speaking in his games, because he has nothing to say in English.

02:06:21.767 --> 02:06:22.027

Tom: Yep.

02:06:22.487 --> 02:06:29.907

Phil: And he wants his games to be, you know, even though he's an American, he wants his games to be, you know, to speak to his audience.

02:06:30.187 --> 02:06:34.367

Phil: So he keeps it without language, which he notes also makes it easy to localize.

02:06:34.407 --> 02:06:34.647

Phil: Yep.

02:06:35.207 --> 02:06:54.907

Phil: So I think it is funny that, you know, Japanese games used to be the quirky, funky, innovative games, and the Western games used to be the boring ones, but now it's the Westerners who are doing all the quirky, ridiculous games, and the Japanese are making Lost Planet 3 and other games to appeal to Western sensibilities.

02:06:54.967 --> 02:06:55.907

Tom: Resident Evil 6.

02:06:56.647 --> 02:06:56.967

Phil: Yep.

02:06:57.527 --> 02:06:58.347

Phil: Perfect point.

02:06:58.567 --> 02:06:59.487

Phil: So, I don't know.

02:07:00.867 --> 02:07:02.627

Phil: I would probably give it a 10.

02:07:02.647 --> 02:07:11.627

Phil: I could be convinced to give it a 9, but my feeling right now is I give it a 10 because it was such an enjoyable experience.

02:07:11.647 --> 02:07:15.147

Phil: I played it from start to finish in one sitting after a very long day.

02:07:16.327 --> 02:07:20.227

Phil: Like I said, it only took me 70 minutes, and it's a game that I will play again.

02:07:20.247 --> 02:07:36.287

Phil: And I thought it was basically getting all of those points for production value, innovation, originality, and then the passive online mode and groundbreaking communication mode.

02:07:37.667 --> 02:07:38.567

Phil: I thought it was brilliant.

02:07:38.987 --> 02:07:42.787

Phil: You know, we really should have probably had Rob Lozak on this episode.

02:07:42.827 --> 02:07:50.247

Phil: He's on a couple of shows ago with our special Nintendo correspondent because I know he has the exact opposite view of these two games as I.

02:07:50.267 --> 02:07:52.247

Tom: I believe the score is a zero out of ten.

Phil: For Journey?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And he said Flower was a, quote, real game, and it is a real game.

Phil: I will give it that, but it's not much fun.

Tom: Well, it does sound like the main reason for that is the controls.

Phil: Oh, absolutely.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I was actually shocked that there was no way to, like, select dual analog for that.

02:08:15.907 --> 02:08:17.987

Phil: But he's not alone in his praise for that game.

Phil: Flower received Best Independent Game Fueled by Do in the 2009 Spike Video Game Award.

Tom: That is, as in Mountain Dew?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: And what does that even mean?

Phil: It means that Mountain Dew paid the Spike Video Game Award to say that this was the best independent game fueled by Dew.

Tom: How exactly was it fueled by Mountain Dew?

02:08:43.527 --> 02:08:47.427

Phil: Well, the best independent game part was fueled by Dew, the actual award.

02:08:48.707 --> 02:08:53.667

Tom: I was hoping this was made under some sort of Mountain Dew binge, something like that.

02:08:54.067 --> 02:08:56.547

Phil: No, I don't think they have stringent testing standards for that.

02:08:56.567 --> 02:08:59.647

Phil: They just apply that award willy-nilly.

02:08:59.647 --> 02:09:00.467

Phil: Okay.

02:09:00.507 --> 02:09:01.487

Phil: They don't go into it.

02:09:01.507 --> 02:09:02.687

Tom: That should be a game jam.

02:09:02.747 --> 02:09:06.747

Tom: You go to the game jam and the only thing you're allowed to subsist on is Mountain Dew.

02:09:07.367 --> 02:09:10.767

Phil: I think that's pretty much the case in these game jams anyway.

02:09:11.167 --> 02:09:13.147

Tom: They probably have Doritos as well though now.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Now, I didn't tell you what happened at the video game store.

Tom: No, you didn't.

Tom: But before we move on from Journey, because this game is both finished, and we've been getting out of the habit of doing this, but we need to get back to our proper, genuine official scores, which means I've got to give it a score as well.

Phil: But you've already given it a score, haven't you?

Tom: Yeah, but not on this podcast.

02:09:34.427 --> 02:09:36.967

Phil: Okay, all right, so I'm going to give it a 10.

02:09:36.987 --> 02:09:38.107

Tom: Yep, you've given it a 10.

02:09:38.127 --> 02:09:40.167

Tom: I give it a 6 out of 10.

02:09:40.367 --> 02:09:43.847

Tom: And I don't really disagree with much of what you said.

02:09:43.867 --> 02:09:50.707

Tom: The things that you enjoyed about the game the most, I fully embrace as well, and that's why it doesn't get a 5 out of 10.

02:09:50.727 --> 02:09:55.187

Tom: So that gives us an average of 16 out of 20, I believe.

02:09:56.307 --> 02:09:59.467

Tom: So that's our official Game Under score for Journey.

02:09:59.707 --> 02:10:00.387

Phil: Yeah, right on.

02:10:00.647 --> 02:10:02.447

Phil: Someone should be keeping track of all of these.

02:10:02.547 --> 02:10:03.767

Tom: Yeah, well, yeah.

02:10:03.787 --> 02:10:07.607

Tom: We should have a long compendium of scores on the website.

02:10:08.147 --> 02:10:12.367

Phil: And then we can get out awards and then notify the developers that they've been given.

02:10:12.567 --> 02:10:13.047

Tom: Exactly.

02:10:13.067 --> 02:10:14.407

Phil: 16.5 out of 20.

02:10:15.327 --> 02:10:16.107

Phil: It's a good system.

02:10:16.727 --> 02:10:17.307

Tom: Absolutely.