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Introduction
0:00:08 Back to Normal
First Impressions - Towers
0:01:46 Minecraft Dungeons
0:07:40 But What Does the ESRB Think?
First Impressions - Fogg
0:20:13 Diablo III for Switch (Diablo 3 for the SEO)
Tom Towers Reacts... the the NEWS!
0:23:21 Australia Drops the Hammer on Fallout 76
0:26:50 Sony About to Reveal Playstation 5
0:29:15 A-League's Future in Australia
First Impressions - Towers
0:32:27 Final Fantasy VII remake (Final Fantasy 7 for SEO) :P
Tom Towers Reacts... the the NEWS! Part Deux
0:45:45 Arcane Studios Documentary Reveals Half-Life Lost Episode
Trademark Banter
0:48:30 Microsoft Being Cool About Backward Compatibility
0:50:45 Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction
What's in the Box?!
0:52:55 Tom Reveals a Recent Purchase
First Impressions
1:17:30 Resident Evil 3 Remake Game Revisited
1:22:30 Journey from That Game Company
Final Impressions
1:38:30 Sky: Children of Light
Flashback
1:53:30 A Much Younger Tom and Phil Discuss Journey in 2013
Transcipt
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode 125 of the Game Under Podcast.
00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:26.940
Tom: I'm your host Tom Towers, and I'm joined by Phil Fogg to discuss the likes of Minecraft Dungeons, Resident Evil 3 and Final Fantasy VII.
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Tom: Are you flabbergasted by that level of up-to-date content?
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Phil: I am shocked and I'm bringing up the indie front.
00:00:36.100 --> 00:00:38.520
Phil: Are we talking about Death and Taxes and Beat Cop?
00:00:39.220 --> 00:00:41.480
Tom: As well as Journey and Sky.
00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:44.520
Phil: I'm shocked that we're just jumping straight into it though.
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Phil: I mean, we're in these unprecedented times.
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Phil: Don't we have something more globally impacting to talk about?
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Tom: Well, we do have, I think, some news perhaps.
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Phil: Are we still in the unprecedented times?
00:01:00.160 --> 00:01:00.760
Tom: I think so.
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Phil: Because I saw a bunch of riots and I didn't see a lot of social distancing.
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Phil: I saw a lot of face masks.
00:01:06.100 --> 00:01:07.720
Tom: Riots aren't unprecedented.
00:01:08.800 --> 00:01:10.180
Phil: Yeah, that means we're back to normal.
00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:11.520
Phil: That means we're back to normal.
00:01:11.880 --> 00:01:15.060
Phil: Everyone's looting and, you know.
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Tom: Masks are pretty popular at riots as well.
00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:22.620
Phil: Yeah, well, back from WTO riots back in Seattle back in the day.
00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:33.260
Tom: The conservative Democratic Party is back to following the Republicans' lead, I believe, with Joe Biden doing his best dementia impressions.
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Phil: Best what?
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Tom: Dementia impressions.
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Tom: Oh, yeah.
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Tom: So following on from Trump taking the lead.
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Phil: Yeah, yeah.
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Phil: Well, we all need 80-year-old presidents, that's for sure, in these unprecedented times.
00:01:46.820 --> 00:01:48.940
Phil: So, look, do you want to just jump straight into...
00:01:49.220 --> 00:01:58.520
Phil: I'm actually interested in what you have to say about Minecraft Dungeons, because I didn't think you had much exposure to the source material, Minecraft.
00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:13.640
Tom: I have, beyond my anecdote of being convinced that I bought a copy of it, and by this time, I'm not sure why I haven't pirated it to check it out on the basis that I bought it, but do not have access to the code.
00:02:13.640 --> 00:02:28.620
Tom: But beyond that, and watching clips of big Minecraft fans on YouTube, I do not really have any exposure to it, other than also the political beliefs of Notch.
00:02:28.620 --> 00:02:33.560
Tom: Beyond that, I have no exposure to Minecraft.
00:02:33.900 --> 00:02:42.400
Tom: My main interest in Minecraft was recent, with the release of the retraced version of it.
00:02:43.700 --> 00:02:46.800
Tom: But there is no retracing in Minecraft Dungeons, sadly.
00:02:47.820 --> 00:02:55.440
Phil: Okay, now with Minecraft, you've got Xbox Whatever Pass, Game Pass, so surely Minecraft is a part of that?
00:02:55.460 --> 00:02:57.420
Tom: No, but Minecraft Dungeons is.
00:02:59.440 --> 00:03:03.220
Phil: So you downloaded this, you played it on PC with a PlayStation 4 controller?
00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:05.300
Tom: With a mouse and keyboard.
00:03:06.480 --> 00:03:15.960
Tom: And this is the logical way to play it, because it is essentially a Diablo-style top-down RPG clickathon.
00:03:17.060 --> 00:03:22.060
Tom: And that just makes the most sense to play with a mouse and keyboard.
00:03:22.340 --> 00:03:30.420
Tom: You've got your hotkeys, a 1 to 3 for your special skills, you've got your potion button, and you click on things.
00:03:31.060 --> 00:03:33.040
Tom: So it works best with a mouse and keyboard.
00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:41.000
Tom: But it is tremendously simple and easy, so I can see that it will work perfectly fine with a controller.
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Tom: Essentially, the combat boils down to two things.
00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:57.200
Tom: If you are using ranged attacks, you simply need to spam arrows, which have a very hefty knockback effect, so that enemies never come close to you.
00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:07.020
Tom: And if you are using a sword, then you basically just need to face the enemy and spam attack, and they are then unable to hit you.
00:04:07.340 --> 00:04:13.540
Tom: Now, as you can raise the difficulty well beyond the recommended level, the enemies...
00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:36.080
Tom: the quantity seems to increase, and they also are much more dangerous, and seem to do a bit more damage, so that you end up having to combine your ranged and melee attacks, so that it isn't quite as mind-numbingly simple as it first appears, but it is still tremendously simple.
00:04:36.780 --> 00:04:42.580
Tom: They do make things a bit more interesting in the boss battles so far.
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Tom: For instance, one of the bosses is Enderman, named after the internet horror copypasta Slenderman, which is responsible for, I believe, one murder.
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Phil: Oh, only one murder.
00:05:00.280 --> 00:05:04.580
Phil: So obviously Minecraft has got a long way to go before it catches up with Pokemon Go.
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Tom: Well, Minecraft, I think, is responsible for zero murders.
00:05:08.300 --> 00:05:22.000
Tom: So until we get an Enderman-inspired stabbing, rather than a Slenderman-inspired boss, Minecraft is utterly pathetic and worthless when it comes to inspiring murderers.
00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:24.600
Phil: So just to take a step back...
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Tom: I was just going to say, the Enderman boss, for instance, makes things a little bit more interesting than the rest of the game, because unlike the standard enemies, where they do have a few different little tricks, which I'll get into in a minute, it does do something that requires a little bit more strategy and planning, because it can disappear and reappear behind you in a horror-enemy sort of style, so it requires a little bit more thought.
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Tom: And another boss that made things interesting was a cauldron, which summoned jelly monsters that had a lot of ranged attacks.
00:06:08.700 --> 00:06:15.340
Tom: So you essentially had to run around, avoiding them and sniping at the cauldron or running in to hit it.
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Tom: So in the boss battles, they make things a lot more interesting.
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Tom: In the standard dungeon crawl, although they do introduce enemies like spiders that if they hit you with a web, you get held in place.
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Tom: Enemies that can heal other enemies, drunkards who throw potions at you and things like that.
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Tom: It all really boils down to simply keeping your enemies at a safe distance until there's few enough of them that you can go in and hit them with the melee attacks.
00:06:51.200 --> 00:07:12.820
Tom: So I have never played Diablo in much detail, but compared to the top-down RPGs I'm familiar with, like Fallout, Planescape, Torment, Knox, which is much more like this, that's a much more arcadey one, it is really, really simple and doesn't appear to have much depth.
00:07:12.860 --> 00:07:27.280
Tom: The leveling system, for instance, so far, appears to consist of you upgrading, I think it's up to three enchantments on your weapon, so that's really simple as well.
00:07:28.400 --> 00:07:43.260
Phil: Okay, so just as soon as you said that there's some, first of all, that boss that you described sounds pretty much like a 3D Mario boss, one that disappears and reappears and summons other minor enemies.
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Tom: Yeah, the cauldron boss as well is very much in that sort of vein.
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Phil: I'm going to read you the, because that prompted me to look up the ESRB rating of this game, because usually any sort of alcohol consumption would push it into a teen rating, I believe.
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Tom: Well, they're technically drinking potions, I believe, but they're sort of stumbling around, shining, flashing red in a very blushing, sort of drunken, louse manner.
00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:13.820
Phil: This is how ESRB describes the game.
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Phil: This is a puzzle adventure game in which players mine pixelated landscapes to harvest stylized cube-like materials.
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Phil: From a first-person perspective, players traverse an open-world environment.
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Phil: Hang on a second.
00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:26.080
Phil: Is this the Minecraft?
00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:27.180
Phil: This is Minecraft.
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Tom: That's the wrong ESRB, I believe.
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Phil: Okay, sorry.
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Phil: Though not encouraged, we'll keep going.
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Phil: Though not encouraged, players can engage in violent acts such as lighting animals on fire and harming animals with weapons.
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Tom: I heard that as arming animals with weapons.
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Tom: I hope that was what it actually said.
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Tom: It probably wasn't.
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Phil: No.
00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:50.120
Phil: Mild explosions are occasionally heard as players use dynamite to fend off creatures.
00:08:51.180 --> 00:08:51.840
Phil: Now I've got a...
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Phil: Do you know what the Minecraft Dungeons ESRB is?
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Tom: My guess is gonna be PG?
00:09:02.400 --> 00:09:02.920
Phil: E10.
00:09:04.060 --> 00:09:05.560
Phil: E10, so E10+.
00:09:05.680 --> 00:09:08.300
Tom: So that would be equivalent to a G here.
00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:09.920
Phil: Yeah, and so the better...
00:09:09.940 --> 00:09:10.700
Phil: Here's the description.
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Phil: This is an action adventure game in which players lead an adventurer on a quest to save villages from an evil force.
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Phil: From a top-down perspective, is it top-down and isometric?
00:09:21.140 --> 00:09:21.640
Tom: Yes, it is.
00:09:21.660 --> 00:09:27.520
Phil: Okay, so players explore pixelated landscapes or stylized look like cubes.
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Phil: And it actually sounds tamer than the actual...
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Phil: Enemies generally collapse slash fall apart or disappear in puffs of smoke when defeated.
00:09:40.380 --> 00:09:45.020
Tom: I think they usually fall dying to the ground before they disappear.
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Phil: Now, I'm sorry, that might be a spoiler then for later levels.
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Tom: Potentially.
00:09:50.260 --> 00:09:52.000
Phil: Yep, so this is...
00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:53.520
Phil: Now, I'm actually playing...
00:09:53.760 --> 00:09:57.100
Phil: I'm pretty far into Diablo III on the Switch right now.
00:09:57.160 --> 00:10:06.820
Phil: So as you know from prior shows, I was a big fan of the Dark Alliance Baldur's Gate series that I played on PlayStation 2 and PSP.
00:10:07.860 --> 00:10:12.660
Phil: And I've never played Diablo until Diablo III on Switch.
00:10:12.940 --> 00:10:19.060
Phil: And I don't think I'll give impressions of it ever other than now, because everyone knows what Diablo III is.
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:21.500
Phil: It's very, it's comfort food.
00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:31.280
Phil: But the thing that just puts it up separately from any of the other looter type games I've played of this nature is the extreme polish.
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Phil: Like the audio is great.
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Phil: The options are tremendous.
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Phil: The graphics are great.
00:10:38.280 --> 00:10:44.080
Phil: But really, when it comes down to it, it is very, it sticks very close to the formula.
00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:48.560
Phil: So in this game, do you have party members?
00:10:48.660 --> 00:10:53.280
Tom: Well, it is interesting that you bring up polish and presentation.
00:10:54.420 --> 00:10:58.920
Tom: And to answer your question, there is an online component to it.
00:10:58.920 --> 00:11:04.740
Tom: I've played every dungeon I've done so far online and no one has joined me.
00:11:05.060 --> 00:11:09.040
Tom: I've also attempted to join other players and found none.
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Tom: So I assume that there may be some issue on my end that I have to figure out a workaround to, as I did with Forza Horizon 4, before I could play it online.
00:11:24.180 --> 00:11:28.260
Tom: But it is designed for co-op.
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Tom: You can even do local co-op with, I believe, at least two players.
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:36.300
Tom: I'm not sure if you can do it with more.
00:11:36.500 --> 00:11:44.200
Tom: The wording was slightly ambiguous, as I believe it said, please attach at least two controllers to play local co-op.
00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:53.100
Tom: So it is very much designed as a simple clickathon to play with friends.
00:11:53.700 --> 00:11:59.100
Tom: And the presentation is what stands out.
00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:16.040
Tom: As you said, you are attempting to save villagers, specifically they are indeed villagers, but they've been under the despotic rule of the arch illager who went mad with power of some sort.
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Tom: And the story is basically limited to tiny snippets of bite size dialogue at the beginning of narration, sorry, at the beginning of each level and at the end of each level.
00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:36.340
Tom: And as you're going through the level, you're sort of doing objectives related to what's going on in the story.
00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:45.600
Tom: So for instance, in one level, you may be trying to stop the magic production for the arch illager, that will be the cauldron level.
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.240
Tom: So in that, the final boss is against the cauldron.
00:12:49.800 --> 00:12:58.300
Tom: And earlier than that, you are freeing villagers that have been caught in certain section of the village and things like that.
00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:09.140
Tom: But it is all presented very tongue and cheek, but in a really fun, again, simple manner.
00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:26.720
Tom: And the small snippets just fit perfectly to set the tone without being at all intrusive or living out its welcome as some sort of serious story that you have to pay a high degree of attention to in a good way.
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Tom: And the music is a perfect accompaniment.
00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:40.840
Tom: The sounds of the arrows and the sounds the enemies make, the sounds you're hitting enemies and the sounds of explosions are all great.
00:13:41.540 --> 00:13:51.360
Tom: The thing that really stands out, and you can really see how Minecraft became such a phenomenon, is it just looks amazing.
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Tom: It is on the level aesthetically of something like Lego.
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Tom: The best example of this is, obviously, everything is blocky, but it works so brilliantly where, as you're going through levels, one of the best, most offensive weapons you come across is blocks of TNT.
00:14:10.400 --> 00:14:13.380
Tom: So they're obviously blocky blocks of TNT.
00:14:14.620 --> 00:14:22.380
Tom: Yep, when you pick them up, they stack on your character's block head, and it is just absolutely brilliant.
00:14:22.380 --> 00:14:32.300
Tom: So this is my first exposure to Minecraft, and it is immediately apparent how it became such a massive phenomenon.
00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:38.500
Phil: I think everything is blocky was the beta version of Everything is Awesome for the Lego movie.
00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:40.120
Phil: Everything is blocky.
00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:50.720
Phil: Look, I was interested, Mojang developed it, but also it was co-developed with Double 11, and looking at their, they've been around since 2012.
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Phil: And they've kind of done ports, and they've done support work on a bunch of stuff, including Crackdown 3, hey, which I'm playing, and Prison Architect, which is very interesting.
00:15:02.400 --> 00:15:03.360
Phil: I've got to look into that.
00:15:04.760 --> 00:15:07.560
Phil: So it's good that this is a good, nice little reward from Microsoft.
00:15:07.580 --> 00:15:10.340
Phil: I wonder if Microsoft owns them at this point, if they're going to own them.
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Tom: I think they did buy them at some point, didn't they?
00:15:13.160 --> 00:15:14.980
Phil: I don't know.
00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:21.940
Phil: We'll find out or someone will tell us, but they're a company based out of the UK.
00:15:22.680 --> 00:15:26.180
Phil: I know Microsoft went through and bought up a whole bunch of studios.
00:15:26.800 --> 00:15:29.340
Phil: So this game reflects well on Minecraft.
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Tom: Fact check, Microsoft bought Mojang for $2.5 billion.
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:36.740
Phil: Yeah, that's known.
00:15:36.760 --> 00:15:37.920
Phil: We had a big show about it.
00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:41.940
Phil: I'm talking about Double 11, the studio that worked with them.
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:55.780
Phil: I think they're still independent, but they've worked on everything from Little Big Planet to Goat Simulator to Lego Harry Potter, as I said, Prison Architect and Crackdown 3, Pixel Junk Shooters.
00:15:58.900 --> 00:16:07.720
Phil: I love seeing little studios get a hand up and work on something of this magnitude because obviously it's going to sell like crazy.
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:14.040
Phil: I was wondering if perhaps your lack of online players just means that this isn't big in Japan because of the time zone that we're in.
00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:19.740
Phil: You know, that's usually who we're playing with in the evenings at least.
00:16:19.880 --> 00:16:22.540
Tom: Surely Minecraft is big even in Japan?
00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:23.940
Phil: Yeah, I don't know.
00:16:24.140 --> 00:16:27.460
Phil: Xbox isn't, Microsoft isn't, PCs aren't particularly.
00:16:30.380 --> 00:16:33.720
Phil: Right, you think it's a universal appeal.
00:16:35.060 --> 00:16:43.520
Phil: Any, now in terms of, you've got your short arrows as your long range weapon, short range weapon I'm guessing is your pickaxe?
00:16:44.300 --> 00:16:46.940
Tom: Well, for me so far, all I've found is swords.
00:16:47.800 --> 00:16:51.020
Phil: Okay, because it would make sense that you would use a pickaxe.
00:16:51.040 --> 00:16:51.300
Tom: Yep.
00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:54.740
Phil: And is the environment destructible?
00:16:55.260 --> 00:16:56.980
Tom: Not that I've noticed at all.
00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:57.780
Tom: Okay.
00:16:58.100 --> 00:17:20.060
Tom: And just the last two gameplay things I forgot to mention is the potion mechanic is very interesting because essentially you have a, and this applies to your magic skills as well, your potion is a recharging potion, like regenerating health in a sense.
00:17:20.080 --> 00:17:36.020
Tom: So whenever you use a potion, it will eventually regenerate, meaning if you're low on health in a fight, but you don't have your potion to use, you can kind of run away and hide until it eventually regenerates.
00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:45.740
Tom: And your magic spells and special skills work like that as well, which is a more standard sort of thing.
00:17:45.960 --> 00:18:11.320
Tom: But it is interesting to see that applied to a potion mechanic, which essentially results in the sort of gameplay structure of regenerating health in a first-person shooter, where it is often beneficial to run away and hide if things have gone a bit wrong, where that isn't necessarily the case in a lot of top-down RPGs, or at least in the same way.
00:18:11.820 --> 00:18:21.780
Tom: And the other thing is that I think does not work as well as that, because that works really well with the simplicity of how the game works.
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:34.960
Tom: What is, I think, a little bit disappointing is the levels are pretty big, but to get to the end, you can basically skip 50% of them.
00:18:35.380 --> 00:18:41.480
Tom: But the rewards for exploring so far are pretty meager.
00:18:41.800 --> 00:18:49.640
Tom: You will essentially end up with an overabundance of arrows, at least I have so far, whether you're exploring or not.
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:58.300
Tom: And you get only a small amount extra emeralds, which is the currency in the game.
00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:06.960
Tom: If you go around exploring, looking for chests and even rarer loot in regards to armor and weapons that you find.
00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:17.080
Tom: So exploration is not very well rewarded so far, but that did seem to be improving with each dungeon.
00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:22.900
Tom: But so far, that is a pretty disappointing aspect to it.
00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:33.780
Tom: Just because the levels are so big compared to what you need to do, you would expect a better reward just beyond the XP of killing more enemies for actually exploring them.
00:19:35.320 --> 00:19:39.640
Phil: That's disappointing because yeah, the exploration is the other element of a looter.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.680
Phil: That's really, there's only two things with a looter.
00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:47.620
Phil: Story, if you include that, but obviously the looting and in the exploring.
00:19:49.120 --> 00:19:53.980
Phil: I'm hopeful that this will be a good entree for many people that have never played this style of game.
00:19:54.680 --> 00:20:01.900
Phil: If I was a development studio, I'd be building something right now for it to be a follow on to this.
00:20:02.560 --> 00:20:12.020
Phil: Nothing to do with Minecraft, of course, but something that would appeal to that same demographic of people who didn't experience this kind of game up until Minecraft gave it the exposure.
00:20:12.900 --> 00:20:14.860
Phil: Anyway, that's what I'd be doing.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.400
Phil: Is that it for Minecraft Dungeons?
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:17.880
Tom: That is pretty much it.
00:20:18.600 --> 00:20:25.000
Phil: Okay, I'm gonna, if you don't mind, I'll just take a minute to just close out my Diablo III impressions on the Switch.
00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:31.700
Phil: Yeah, on the Switch, I was told that in the handheld mode, the text would not be a problem.
00:20:32.840 --> 00:20:36.300
Phil: It is not great, but it's certainly much better up on the big screen.
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:39.900
Phil: But up on the big screen, it starts to look like a PlayStation 3 game.
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:46.700
Phil: So yeah, the other annoying thing about it, it's got the most annoying starting menu ever.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:52.960
Phil: Obviously, when you start a game, and you've been playing it for a long time, you just mash the default button to get through to the actual gameplay.
00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:54.000
Phil: Yep.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:56.640
Phil: In this one, they have an alternate button.
00:20:57.140 --> 00:21:09.640
Phil: If you do that, at one point, you will open the Nintendo eStore to download a language pack that you already have and was installed with the game when you first install it.
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:15.700
Phil: So you'll go, A, just to skip past the Blizzard screen and then A, to press any button.
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:17.300
Phil: And then you press A again.
00:21:17.380 --> 00:21:23.780
Phil: Well, that's the one that's going to open up the Nintendo eShop and attempt to download a language pack.
00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:29.800
Phil: So that's the most annoying starting prompt to a video game I've ever seen.
00:21:30.360 --> 00:21:33.440
Phil: And I've seen a few, so I thought that was worth bringing up.
00:21:34.020 --> 00:21:36.780
Phil: Besides that, though, I was really underwhelmed because I'd heard for years...
00:21:36.800 --> 00:21:41.800
Phil: I've been playing these kinds of games, like Record of Lodoss War and Baldur's Gate forever.
00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:43.860
Phil: And I was really expecting more.
00:21:45.140 --> 00:21:48.200
Phil: I was expecting like a radically, significantly better.
00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:54.500
Phil: It is nothing more than just a really competent, very enjoyable take on the genre.
00:21:55.580 --> 00:21:58.400
Tom: Isn't that what Diablo was essentially famous for, though?
00:21:59.280 --> 00:22:06.240
Phil: Well, see, I've always just been on the sidelines because I was like, you know, I had other things going on and, you know, I never got around to Diablo either.
00:22:06.420 --> 00:22:11.180
Phil: When it first came out, my PC wasn't good enough or that seems to be always the case with Diablo.
00:22:11.780 --> 00:22:15.780
Phil: And then it finally, or I didn't have enough time in my life to play it.
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.980
Phil: And then finally it comes to Switch where you've always got time to play.
00:22:19.820 --> 00:22:21.220
Phil: So it's a perfect match.
00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:25.060
Phil: And I hate to repeat the cliche, it's a perfect game for the Switch.
00:22:25.820 --> 00:22:27.960
Phil: And I'm really enjoying it.
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:35.700
Phil: I just thought that there was gonna be something more than just a very well-executed piece of interactive entertainment.
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:38.240
Tom: But draws from other sources.
00:22:39.460 --> 00:22:40.660
Phil: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.900
Tom: That's kind of Blizzard's MO as well.
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:45.440
Phil: Well, yeah.
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:46.740
Phil: Hey, and I'll take it.
00:22:47.380 --> 00:22:50.100
Phil: Don't get me wrong, I'm loving it and having fun with it.
00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:53.320
Phil: Just was expecting something different.
00:22:54.760 --> 00:22:55.140
Phil: Anyway.
00:22:56.520 --> 00:22:58.360
Tom: It sounds like you got Diablo to me.
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:07.040
Tom: And before we move on, we should probably point out that Diablo does actually pre-date Baldur's Gate.
00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:10.300
Tom: To give it its full credit.
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:11.660
Phil: Thank you.
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.240
Phil: And it probably pre-dates Record of Lodoss War as well.
00:23:14.300 --> 00:23:15.440
Phil: So, yeah.
00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:16.420
Phil: Hey, look, you know what?
00:23:16.600 --> 00:23:17.440
Phil: Turn it on its head.
00:23:17.820 --> 00:23:18.900
Phil: You're absolutely right.
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:20.920
Phil: Those are the, yep, boy, you saved me there.
00:23:21.020 --> 00:23:21.420
Phil: All right.
00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:26.040
Phil: Now to our new segment, Tom Towers reacts to the news.
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:32.800
Phil: Tom, I'm gonna read you a story that you have not heard yet and you're gonna react to it and then I'm gonna react to your reaction.
00:23:32.820 --> 00:23:34.680
Phil: Are you ready for news story number one?
00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:35.080
Tom: Yes.
00:23:35.760 --> 00:23:40.460
Phil: Now, this only happened today in our own country, Australia.
00:23:41.620 --> 00:23:55.060
Phil: Our Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has basically taken EB Games or GameStop to task for failing to refund consumers for the Fallout 76 game.
00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:59.540
Phil: So basically, Fallout 76 came out.
00:23:59.820 --> 00:24:07.180
Phil: It was an online game that had, you know, connection issues and also bugs within the game.
00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:13.660
Phil: And people went to GameStop and EB Games and said, I want my money back.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:14.760
Phil: This is a broken game.
00:24:16.800 --> 00:24:23.340
Phil: And basically, they were repeatedly told by people working at EB Games, no, you can't return a game for being buggy.
00:24:24.580 --> 00:24:34.940
Phil: So today, the ACCC has said, nope, a game can be returned for having technical glitches, and you must refund anyone who asks for a refund of Fallout 76.
00:24:36.100 --> 00:24:37.700
Tom: Which is perfectly fair, I would say.
00:24:38.560 --> 00:24:42.200
Phil: Yep, and all you got to do is email EB Games to request a refund.
00:24:43.840 --> 00:24:52.080
Phil: I don't know if you'll have a receipt, but you are giving up your right to play Fallout 76 with that version of the game.
00:24:52.460 --> 00:24:55.040
Phil: So I guess you've got to put it on the shelf or uninstall it.
00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:57.300
Phil: You'll be on the Honest System, no doubt.
00:24:58.840 --> 00:24:59.760
Phil: What's your take on that?
00:24:59.760 --> 00:25:05.900
Tom: I think the Honest System in this case will work perfectly because I don't think anyone wants to play Fallout 76.
00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:08.580
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:18.440
Phil: But what do you think about that concept of like, hey, I got stuck in a wall, or we'll be talking about Journey later and I'll be talking about the glitches I had with that game.
00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:21.900
Phil: Does that make it a defective...
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:24.120
Phil: I mean, like, if...
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:28.580
Tom: It obviously depends on how bad something is.
00:25:29.020 --> 00:25:35.560
Tom: But when you get to the level of something like Fallout 76, I think it makes perfect sense.
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:42.100
Phil: Yeah, well, like, what if I'm watching a movie, and as I often find, a continuity error?
00:25:42.820 --> 00:25:56.400
Phil: Like, the actor was talking and he was looking down, then they cut to the scene another angle and he's looking up, or, you know, a glass is moved, or they're drinking out of a glass, and there's less water than there was, or more water than there was, you know.
00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:59.820
Phil: Should I be able to take that DVD back, because it contains errors?
00:26:00.820 --> 00:26:03.980
Tom: It depends on how bad the continuity error is, I would say.
00:26:05.620 --> 00:26:13.060
Phil: Well, there was recently an animated movie where they'd left the ping pong on a pencil, ping pong ball on a pencil in, you know?
00:26:13.080 --> 00:26:13.260
Phil: Yep.
00:26:13.360 --> 00:26:16.840
Phil: I mean, and it got patched out, apparently.
00:26:16.980 --> 00:26:22.680
Phil: I think it was the first movie to get a patch, if you don't count, you know, Star Wars, the original episodes.
00:26:23.740 --> 00:26:42.940
Tom: Which I think is an important part of this equation, where if you're in a world where patches are a possibility and you have a defective product that isn't being fixed, then I don't think there's really much of an excuse for it.
00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:44.820
Phil: No, I agree.
00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:45.880
Phil: I agree.
00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:47.220
Phil: I share your reaction.
00:26:48.080 --> 00:27:07.640
Phil: Now, this number two one doesn't need much of a reaction, but by the time that this podcast publishes, or probably just before or just after this show publishes, Sony is going to be revealing the PlayStation 5, the hardware, more details, and probably some exclusive games for it as well on June the 4th.
00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:17.260
Phil: So are you interested in that at all, excited by it, do you have any thoughts as to what shape you want the PlayStation 5 to be?
00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:20.360
Tom: I want a banana-shaped PlayStation.
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:21.840
Phil: Okay.
00:27:21.860 --> 00:27:24.140
Tom: Like the controller, but that is the console.
00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:27.180
Phil: So you think that the...
00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:27.760
Phil: interesting.
00:27:28.360 --> 00:27:33.760
Phil: So you think that the console that they announce may well just be the controller that they've already revealed?
00:27:34.780 --> 00:27:37.000
Tom: No, I don't think it will be the controller.
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:39.800
Tom: Remember the banana controller concept?
00:27:39.820 --> 00:27:40.460
Phil: Yeah, the Batarang.
00:27:41.320 --> 00:27:41.560
Tom: Yes.
00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:45.500
Tom: I want the console itself to be of a similar sort of design.
00:27:46.820 --> 00:27:57.940
Tom: It won't be the controller, but it will be a console like that that will stand up on these two legs in some impressive balancing act.
00:27:58.760 --> 00:27:59.260
Phil: Okay.
00:27:59.300 --> 00:28:00.540
Phil: Where would you put the disc?
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:03.320
Tom: It would be no disc.
00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:04.780
Phil: A no disc console.
00:28:05.660 --> 00:28:06.640
Phil: It's a discless console.
00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:11.680
Phil: Well, that works so well for Microsoft, so why not?
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:22.660
Phil: The other thing I wanted to ask you about was, as we come out of these unprecedented times, you're a big fan of football in Australia, and we had talked off air about whether...
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:24.500
Tom: No, I'm just backing off there.
00:28:24.520 --> 00:28:25.460
Tom: I've changed my mind.
00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:30.040
Tom: I've gone next level in my concept idea here.
00:28:30.600 --> 00:28:35.040
Tom: It will indeed, if you get just one of them, be a discless console.
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:47.620
Tom: But if you get two and you place them leg to leg so that they are forming the shape of a disc, you will place a disc between them which will levitate on laser beams as it is being read.
00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:51.680
Phil: This thing's going to be expensive, especially if you have to buy two of them.
00:28:51.760 --> 00:28:53.500
Tom: Sony consoles often are expensive.
00:28:55.420 --> 00:28:57.340
Tom: They were pioneers in Blu-ray.
00:28:57.360 --> 00:28:59.620
Phil: And DVD.
00:28:59.620 --> 00:29:00.840
Tom: And DVD, I have faith.
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:04.560
Tom: The next step is the levitating disc drive.
00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:07.000
Phil: It's frictionless, man.
00:29:07.020 --> 00:29:13.280
Phil: I mean, so, you know, it'd be low energy required to read the disc, I'm assuming.
00:29:15.360 --> 00:29:18.240
Phil: Hey, A-League, it's the Australian Football League.
00:29:18.300 --> 00:29:19.680
Phil: It's coming back, I understand.
00:29:20.180 --> 00:29:22.340
Tom: Well, the A-League thinks it's coming back.
00:29:22.760 --> 00:29:25.100
Tom: Fox doesn't want it to come back, essentially.
00:29:25.120 --> 00:29:25.500
Phil: Really?
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.640
Phil: And they're the ones that pay for the A-League, right?
00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:29.760
Tom: They don't want to pay for it.
00:29:31.300 --> 00:29:39.160
Tom: So they're hoping to not pay for the rest of the season or at least pay a vastly reduced amount.
00:29:40.100 --> 00:29:43.520
Phil: So is it as you predicted, will there be some teams that don't come back?
00:29:44.900 --> 00:29:47.800
Tom: Well, I think there's a reasonable chance of that.
00:29:47.820 --> 00:30:06.640
Tom: It could also be seen as an opportunity by the FFA to get rid of some of the teams that they don't like or that contribute little in many people's eyes like Central Coast and Wellington.
00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:36.620
Tom: But in theory, most of the teams on their own merits would have a low chance of survival because basically every team, except for Melbourne Victory, Melbourne City, Sydney FC, Western Sydney Wanderers and to a lesser extent, Brisbane Raw and Perth Glory, are all basically funded by the A League itself.
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:51.320
Tom: As long as the FFA itself were to survive and wanted to continue with a similar structure of League, in theory, they should all be able to survive.
00:30:51.340 --> 00:30:59.620
Phil: Okay, but you're sceptical that they will come back this year because Fox doesn't want to pay the TV rights for this year, I guess.
00:31:00.040 --> 00:31:01.860
Tom: Well, I think probably they will.
00:31:03.040 --> 00:31:07.100
Tom: They will probably come back, but when will be a question?
00:31:07.800 --> 00:31:31.040
Tom: Because you would assume that the A League will probably just give in to get it over and done with, with losing a lot of revenue from the television deal, because I don't think they have much faith in getting another contract with Fox, so they may just try and get as little money out of it as they can.
00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:45.600
Tom: By the same token, if they're not trying to get another contract out of Fox for next season, they may just think fuck Fox and can the league.
00:31:45.600 --> 00:32:07.000
Tom: But one thing to remember from the perspective of a Melbourne Victory fan is that Sydney FC is currently winning the league, and you would expect that the Sydney-based FFA would like another opportunity to award Sydney both with the first place position on the ladder and grand final.
00:32:08.140 --> 00:32:12.280
Phil: Yeah, so possibly like what I would suggest would be a truncated tournament season.
00:32:12.300 --> 00:32:13.120
Tom: Well, that is the plan.
00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:17.200
Tom: The plan is to play the last rounds in a round-robin format.
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:19.580
Phil: Okay, so surely that will come.
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:26.800
Tom: It's being reduced, but the thing is Fox is not so much interested in that happening.
00:32:28.100 --> 00:32:35.400
Phil: Okay, well thanks for that update because I had been thinking about it, had been thinking about you and where the A-League was headed.
00:32:36.600 --> 00:32:39.060
Phil: But we probably should get back on to games.
00:32:39.080 --> 00:32:47.440
Phil: You've also been playing the Final Fantasy VII Remake, been playing that on the PlayStation 4, I'm guessing?
00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:50.400
Tom: Yes, and technically just the demo of it.
00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:51.840
Phil: Oh, okay.
00:32:51.860 --> 00:32:56.060
Phil: Does the demo carry over to the full game and how long is the demo?
00:32:56.080 --> 00:33:06.000
Tom: I think the demo does not carry over to the full game, but it is only about 30 minutes to an hour depending on how fast you are.
00:33:06.620 --> 00:33:10.320
Phil: So it would take longer to download it and install it than it would to play it?
00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:12.540
Tom: Depending on the internet speed, yes.
00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:18.460
Phil: I'm guessing it's like probably a 7 gig or is that too much?
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:20.460
Tom: I think it's much bigger than 7 gigabytes.
00:33:20.520 --> 00:33:27.320
Tom: I do not recall how big, but I would guess maybe in the 10 to 30 gigabyte range.
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:37.520
Phil: So if it was a Call of Duty demo, it would be a 80 gig download with a day one patch that's 120 gig, I'm guessing.
00:33:37.540 --> 00:33:37.900
Tom: Correct.
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:39.320
Tom: So it's actually quite small.
00:33:39.940 --> 00:33:40.280
Phil: Okay.
00:33:40.300 --> 00:33:41.620
Phil: So you're playing it on PlayStation 4?
00:33:41.620 --> 00:33:41.980
Tom: Yes.
00:33:42.580 --> 00:33:45.940
Phil: And what's your experience with Final Fantasy VII, the originals?
00:33:45.960 --> 00:34:00.320
Tom: Well, Final Fantasy VII was one of my first experiences on the PlayStation, borrowing it and the console itself from, I believe, Blockbuster at the time.
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.520
Phil: You probably didn't borrow it from them, you probably rented it from them.
00:34:04.600 --> 00:34:04.940
Tom: Yes.
00:34:05.560 --> 00:34:05.840
Phil: Yes.
00:34:06.260 --> 00:34:10.040
Tom: Would you be able to explain the difference between borrowing and renting?
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:13.400
Phil: Well, borrowing would be me lending you something for free.
00:34:13.420 --> 00:34:13.960
Phil: Okay, yes.
00:34:14.580 --> 00:34:17.180
Phil: Rent, there has to be an exchange of monetary...
00:34:17.200 --> 00:34:18.980
Tom: Maybe I temporarily stole it.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.260
Phil: Yeah, okay, that's all right, shoplifting is fine.
00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:24.580
Phil: We're into a shoplifting at The Game Under Podcast.
00:34:24.860 --> 00:34:28.120
Phil: Episode 125, if you've just joined us.
00:34:28.340 --> 00:34:33.640
Tom: Pro tip, don't try sticking a PlayStation console down your trousers, though.
00:34:34.520 --> 00:34:35.020
Phil: Oh, yeah.
00:34:35.040 --> 00:34:36.300
Tom: It's a little bit awkward to walk.
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:37.220
Phil: Yeah.
00:34:37.700 --> 00:34:50.720
Tom: But anyway, Final Fantasy VII, one of my first experiences on the original PlayStation console and one of my favourite games ever.
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:59.780
Tom: It's in the top three Final Fantasies for me with Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X.
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:17.340
Tom: And I think it has a contender for greatest opening in a game ever where you thrust right into the action of engaging in an eco-terrorist attack on a Mako reactor.
00:35:18.620 --> 00:35:39.540
Tom: And the demo essentially is this epic opening seen from the original, done in high fidelity with hand-made renderings in HD of the environments you went through in the original game.
00:35:40.640 --> 00:35:44.080
Tom: The same sort of banter that was there in the original as well.
00:35:46.160 --> 00:35:58.120
Tom: And a totally new combat system, which I'll get to in a minute because the aesthetic quality of it, I think, is inferior to the original.
00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:16.140
Tom: It captures much of the feel in terms of colour and grittiness, but I think it has a lot to do with the combat system and the voice acting and the music.
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:21.460
Tom: I think it doesn't capture the darkness of the original Final Fantasy VII.
00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:30.520
Tom: And this may change later on, but from my memory, Final Fantasy VII's, the original's opening was extremely dark.
00:36:30.680 --> 00:36:39.800
Tom: The first thing that kind of makes things more light-hearted than the original is that the banter is voice acted.
00:36:41.120 --> 00:36:56.360
Tom: And the voice acting is perfectly adequate, but Final Fantasy VII dialogue is not written well enough that it benefits very much from being read aloud and acted.
00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:14.080
Tom: And the actors do what you would with dialogue like that, which is emphasize the banter aspects and the silliness of it, rather than the narrative tone of what is happening in the world you're exploring.
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:29.660
Tom: And the other issue is I think the high fidelity orchestration is inherently less dark than the midi music version of those same songs.
00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:31.160
Phil: Yeah, I can see that.
00:37:32.040 --> 00:37:36.980
Tom: Which is obviously not to say that you cannot make dark music in an orchestra.
00:37:37.420 --> 00:37:55.180
Tom: Certainly, Final Fantasy VII's music is not dark compared to many orchestral pieces, but the translation you do not get quite the same feeling when you are changing it like that.
00:37:55.200 --> 00:38:00.980
Phil: It's hard to do grime with an orchestra, and it's hard not to do MIDI without grime.
00:38:00.980 --> 00:38:01.720
Tom: Yeah, exactly.
00:38:01.740 --> 00:38:02.560
Phil: That is my contention.
00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:02.920
Tom: Yes.
00:38:03.560 --> 00:38:14.120
Tom: There are a lot of symphonies that are much more grimy than anything in any game, but it is certainly a greater level of skill required.
00:38:16.540 --> 00:38:20.600
Tom: So the tone is partly there, but not completely.
00:38:21.060 --> 00:38:30.640
Tom: The other thing is I'm not convinced that the idea of re-
00:38:31.340 --> 00:38:45.160
Tom: and making everything, then playing through it from the perspective of a movable camera really makes for something that is as visually interesting on the same level as the original game.
00:38:46.420 --> 00:38:58.080
Tom: A controlled perspective just inherently allows you to make more interesting environments, because you know exactly where people are looking and everything they're going to see.
00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:12.780
Tom: So it's still detailed, but the details are less interesting, because people don't know where you're going to be focusing all the time, and you can guide where you expect the player to look to some degree, but not to the same level.
00:39:13.160 --> 00:39:40.940
Tom: So visually, it doesn't really hold up to the original either, but again, because the original is such a brilliant work of art, an inferior reimagining of it is still extremely engrossing and engaging, and where I think it does live up to the original, albeit in a completely different way, is in combat.
00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:57.360
Tom: I had no idea what to expect from the combat, and I was pleasantly surprised because the last Final Fantasy game I have played is 12, which was a complete disappointment in terms of combat.
00:39:57.380 --> 00:40:22.080
Tom: It was a bad rendition of MMORPG combat, and obviously I wasn't expecting that in this, but no one really criticised Final Fantasy XII for its lackluster combat, so I was just assuming that the changes in Final Fantasy combat system over the years since then were probably as underwhelming and uninteresting as that.
00:40:22.080 --> 00:40:32.260
Tom: But this is a fascinating combination of almost beat-em-up style combat and control of teammates.
00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:57.440
Tom: So essentially you've got a dodge button and a block button, both of which require some degree of timing, and you've got two types of attack, with the difference being if you're using a heavy attack that does more damage, you are really slow in moving around, and dodging is a difficulty, and if you are using the fast attack, you can move around very quickly.
00:40:57.680 --> 00:41:09.160
Tom: So basically you have to think about your heavy attack timings based on what the enemies are doing and where they are and that sort of thing.
00:41:09.540 --> 00:41:32.700
Tom: And the battles just flow in and out of one another brilliantly in a very interesting way because the traditional RPG combat structure is you basically go through completely meaningless battles where you just press X or Enter or A the entire time and the enemy just dissolves before you.
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:39.660
Tom: Then you run into tougher enemies and then really tough ones and bosses and so forth.
00:41:40.180 --> 00:41:55.940
Tom: Here it's basically the same and in a fascinating way because even though you are in theory playing in a much more direct manner, the easy fights, that's pretty much still all you're doing is just spamming X.
00:41:56.280 --> 00:42:08.820
Tom: So because it's following the same structure as the original levels to some degree, you're not getting bogged down by the detailed combat in meaningless battles.
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:22.680
Tom: It's only in battles against tougher enemies with more interesting patterns or dangerous arrangements of enemies that you actually have to play it in a more cerebral manner.
00:42:23.640 --> 00:42:27.100
Tom: So that allows for excellent pacing opportunities.
00:42:27.520 --> 00:42:59.420
Tom: So once you get to the boss at the end, which is a real highlight that combines weak points on the enemy, not in terms of elemental weaknesses, elemental weaknesses, dodging moments, blocking moments, basically the entire repertoire of things, and also having to switch between Barret and Cloud for when ranged and close quarters combat is more effective.
00:43:00.180 --> 00:43:06.240
Tom: That just is an amazing demonstration of the potential that the system has.
00:43:06.680 --> 00:43:22.140
Tom: And the following on from that when you're escaping is a great example of how well this can be used for pacing, because you basically just breeze through the level up to the boss, which is an epic fight and really difficult.
00:43:22.980 --> 00:43:43.940
Tom: Then after that, as you're trying to run through the level and escape, they throw in some dangerous combinations of enemies that you're not expecting and also tough enemies as well in a way that really adds to the tension of you running away from this Mako reactor that is about to blow up.
00:43:44.340 --> 00:43:56.180
Tom: So from a presentation perspective, to me it's a noticeable, arguably a big step back from the original.
00:43:57.060 --> 00:44:13.800
Tom: But from a gameplay perspective, I wouldn't say it's necessarily better, but it is a completely different take on things that has the potential to be used in fascinating and potentially better narrative ways later on.
00:44:15.180 --> 00:44:19.500
Phil: Did you play any of Final Fantasy XV, the most recent main entry?
00:44:20.260 --> 00:44:23.760
Tom: No, I have not, but it looks absolutely hilarious.
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:28.400
Phil: Yeah, I started it and it was hilarious, so I really want to get back to it.
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:37.380
Phil: I just don't have that much time to actually sit in front of a TV and play games as I do with, say, the Switch, for example.
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:41.920
Phil: And this Final Fantasy VII Remake is a PlayStation 4 exclusive.
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:48.780
Phil: It's received universally high praise, which is kind of swaying me a little bit.
00:44:48.820 --> 00:44:57.920
Phil: And it's also good to see amongst the credits names like Tetsuo Nomura, Yomatsu on music, Kitase Producing.
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:07.060
Phil: And, you know, it's good to see a lot of the familiar names on the job, though I haven't always been a massive fan of Tetsuo Nomura.
00:45:08.260 --> 00:45:13.240
Phil: But that's because I like the older RPG, older Final Fantasy games.
00:45:14.680 --> 00:45:16.160
Phil: Yeah, you're really selling me on it.
00:45:16.180 --> 00:45:17.100
Phil: Are you sold on it?
00:45:17.220 --> 00:45:19.600
Phil: Will you be picking up the full version, do you think?
00:45:19.620 --> 00:45:28.320
Tom: I'm not sure if I'll pick up the full version, but it's certainly something that I will keep an eye on, because I'm not convinced that it will ever be finished.
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:33.060
Phil: Well, but you can enjoy it just for this episode, I'm sure.
00:45:36.020 --> 00:45:47.480
Tom: If I was to play, for instance, half of it, and 20 years later there was no third part, and 50 years later I was dead and there was no fourth part, I would be annoyed.
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:51.800
Phil: Well, it's worked so well for Half-Life, though.
00:45:53.900 --> 00:45:56.020
Phil: I see they're not sparing any dollars on this.
00:45:56.040 --> 00:45:58.520
Tom: It's a lot of VR version.
00:45:58.540 --> 00:45:59.940
Phil: There are many games.
00:46:01.380 --> 00:46:08.720
Phil: Danny O'Dwyer's latest documentary, there was actually basically a completed episode, or there is a completed episode.
00:46:09.860 --> 00:46:10.780
Tom: Was it an ad?
00:46:11.620 --> 00:46:12.360
Phil: No, no, no.
00:46:12.940 --> 00:46:14.720
Phil: Well, his show.
00:46:14.740 --> 00:46:21.360
Phil: The latest documentary is not an ad, and I wish I could remember who the studio is, because I actually watched the whole thing.
00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:23.220
Phil: It was very fascinating.
00:46:23.240 --> 00:46:35.200
Phil: It was about a studio that has a lot of games that were almost completely finished, get cancelled on them, and one of the first games that they featured looked like it was absolutely amazing.
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:39.420
Phil: All right, well, it is Arkane Studio.
00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:53.240
Phil: So, Arkane Studios is the latest studio to be featured in Danny O'Dwyer's Noclip YouTube series, or Patreon series, I should say, but you can see them on YouTube.
00:46:53.860 --> 00:47:04.420
Phil: And there's three games that they made that weren't released, one called The Crossing, which to me is worth looking at the documentary in and of itself.
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:06.840
Phil: I think it's a fascinating concept, The Crossing.
00:47:06.860 --> 00:47:10.760
Tom: Is this the developer of Ark's Fatalis and Prey?
00:47:12.340 --> 00:47:12.700
Phil: Yes.
00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:13.620
Tom: And Dishonored?
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:14.600
Phil: Yep.
00:47:14.720 --> 00:47:16.120
Tom: And Bioshock 2?
00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:17.840
Phil: Yep.
00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:20.160
Phil: Dishonored would be what they're most famous for.
00:47:20.180 --> 00:47:21.840
Tom: Fallout 76.
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:25.800
Phil: Well, possibly they were contributing.
00:47:26.020 --> 00:47:29.880
Phil: But yeah, well, they work for Bethesda now, so everyone's involved with that.
00:47:29.900 --> 00:47:31.400
Tom: There's one that they should have cancelled.
00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:32.140
Phil: Yeah.
00:47:32.160 --> 00:47:38.260
Phil: Well, Half-Life Ravenholm got the plug pulled on it with basically two weeks left on the game.
00:47:39.640 --> 00:47:42.460
Phil: Steam or Valve pulled the plug on it.
00:47:43.060 --> 00:47:44.080
Phil: And it looked actually...
00:47:44.100 --> 00:47:50.220
Tom: That's disappointing because that's the only good part in a Half-Life game outside of Episode II.
00:47:51.700 --> 00:47:56.600
Tom: So a return to it would have been fascinating, particularly if it wasn't developed by Valve.
00:47:57.360 --> 00:47:58.740
Phil: That's exactly what it was called.
00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:00.500
Phil: I think it was called Return to Ravenholm.
00:48:01.600 --> 00:48:02.360
Phil: And they...
00:48:02.380 --> 00:48:06.440
Phil: You know how a couple of its shows a few years ago were like, oh, but what...
00:48:06.680 --> 00:48:09.420
Phil: They would have to introduce something new if they were going to go back to it.
00:48:09.620 --> 00:48:11.700
Phil: And they came up with some cool elements.
00:48:11.720 --> 00:48:22.580
Phil: So yeah, for the first thing in a long time that's been good on Noclip is the untold history of Arkane Studios, Arkane with a K, of course.
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:29.520
Phil: Okay, well, if that's it for your Final Fantasy VII impressions, you've been talking a bit, so I'll give you a bit of a break.
00:48:29.580 --> 00:48:31.220
Phil: I'll give you some trademark banter.
00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:43.580
Phil: You may recall that when the Xbox One X came out, that's the most expensive and most recently available Xbox, they touted how you could...
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:46.840
Phil: it was backward compatible with original Xbox games.
00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:47.060
Tom: Yep.
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:48.840
Phil: And so I've actually...
00:48:48.860 --> 00:48:51.660
Tom: That's what the extra power is for, for the emulator.
00:48:52.300 --> 00:48:53.560
Phil: Yep, exactly.
00:48:54.080 --> 00:49:23.660
Phil: And so I was like, because I have a pretty large original Xbox collection, and I have three very dodgy, three or four very dodgy original Xboxes that hardly work, and hardly work with the exaggeration, I've been considering getting an Xbox One X, like seriously, and even though it's like 600 or 700 bucks, I was like, if it can play some of my original Xbox games, it could be worth it, or maybe I'll wait and see what happens with the Xbox S.
00:49:24.160 --> 00:49:25.860
Phil: Well, that's the new one, right?
00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:28.660
Phil: Yeah, Xbox Series X, not S.
00:49:29.680 --> 00:49:41.340
Phil: So to be clear, the Xbox One S is the current one that's out that can play original Xbox games, and the X is the new one that's recently coming out this year.
00:49:41.720 --> 00:49:42.680
Phil: Glad to clarify that.
00:49:42.860 --> 00:49:43.500
Phil: Thanks, everyone.
00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:46.940
Phil: So I was like, should I hold out?
00:49:46.960 --> 00:50:01.440
Phil: So I started researching it, and I found out that they've very quietly introduced the Xbox original capability, backward compatibility, into all Xbox ones, including my launch one.
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.960
Phil: So I basically ran OK.
00:50:04.980 --> 00:50:08.180
Phil: So there's a list of over 100 games, I think.
00:50:09.080 --> 00:50:14.400
Phil: I had about 14 of them, so of course the first one I put in is the one everyone wants, which is Crimson Skies.
00:50:15.080 --> 00:50:17.540
Phil: And yeah, you put your original disc in there.
00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:24.800
Phil: It says, OK, we're going to download an update for this game, which means we're going to download the game.
00:50:25.160 --> 00:50:29.340
Phil: So, you know, it's like a 3 to 6 gigabytes of data.
00:50:30.700 --> 00:50:34.760
Phil: And then basically they're using your original Xbox disc as an activation key.
00:50:35.300 --> 00:50:45.260
Phil: Yeah, it's pretty limited, like I said, out of the hundreds of Xbox games I've got, there's only about 12, and I've installed some.
00:50:45.640 --> 00:50:54.420
Phil: And I started playing Mercenaries, Playground of Destruction, and actually like three quarters of the way through it.
00:50:54.460 --> 00:51:00.060
Phil: And the reason why I stopped playing it originally was because the original Xbox couldn't keep up with it.
00:51:01.120 --> 00:51:09.600
Phil: It was just a frame rate, you know, it was just like what the last, what was that, Eco, Eco, the second, the second one last?
00:51:11.560 --> 00:51:12.580
Tom: The Colossus one?
00:51:12.600 --> 00:51:13.340
Tom: Shadow of the Colossus.
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:18.080
Phil: Yeah, yeah, it was one of those experiences where the place, the original Xboxes couldn't keep up with it.
00:51:18.500 --> 00:51:23.780
Phil: And now I'm playing Mercenaries, Playground of Destruction, and it's an amazing game.
00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:26.300
Phil: It was released by LucasArts, and I won't get into it here.
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:27.520
Phil: I'll say that for another time.
00:51:28.100 --> 00:51:31.860
Phil: But I'm just so happy with Microsoft that they've done this.
00:51:33.180 --> 00:51:35.440
Phil: Because it gives me confidence now.
00:51:36.060 --> 00:51:40.380
Phil: You know me, I'm typically buying PlayStation over Xbox, the last generation.
00:51:41.260 --> 00:51:44.800
Phil: But now, when it comes to picking up a game, it's available on both.
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.820
Phil: I'm picking the Xbox one, because there's a pretty good chance it's going to play on the future console.
00:51:50.940 --> 00:52:00.020
Phil: And in fact, just today, or actually a couple of days ago, Microsoft announced that the Xbox Series X is going to launch with thousands of games across four generations of Xbox.
00:52:00.860 --> 00:52:13.540
Phil: And they're going to have HDR reconstruction built into it, and quick time, and higher resolutions, and double the frame rate.
00:52:13.700 --> 00:52:20.720
Phil: So I'm really happy that they're committed to this backward compatibility movement.
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:27.840
Phil: And it's actually made a difference in terms of me thinking about what is the first console I'm going to buy when they come out later this year.
00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:30.400
Phil: So this little stuff like this works.
00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:32.740
Phil: I know people say backward compatibility doesn't matter.
00:52:33.980 --> 00:52:38.460
Phil: And obviously I'm biased, because I've got hundreds of games in the Xbox format.
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:42.980
Phil: But I just thought that was a real class act, and I'm so thrilled that they did it.
00:52:43.500 --> 00:52:47.240
Tom: Agreed, and I am all for backwards compatibility.
00:52:47.980 --> 00:52:49.420
Phil: Controversy on the show.
00:52:50.660 --> 00:52:53.560
Phil: And I, for one, am all for the thing you just talked about.
00:52:55.500 --> 00:52:59.980
Phil: I'm going to punish you, I'm going to put you back and make you give us first impressions of RE3.
00:53:01.900 --> 00:53:07.260
Phil: Well, you're punished anyway, because most of the stuff on our list today is tower-centric.
00:53:08.640 --> 00:53:17.540
Phil: But I was curious about something that you'd mentioned while we're in trademark banner, about something that you bought recently.
00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:19.660
Phil: So it's kind of box-related.
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:20.620
Phil: What's in the box?
00:53:20.640 --> 00:53:21.460
Phil: What did you get?
00:53:22.100 --> 00:53:22.820
Phil: What did you get?
00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:29.820
Tom: Well, you have to guess what is in the box based on what is written on the box.
00:53:30.740 --> 00:53:31.140
Phil: Okay.
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:34.120
Tom: So I will have to go and get the box.
00:53:34.140 --> 00:53:34.740
Phil: Read it to me?
00:53:35.080 --> 00:53:35.700
Phil: Oh, here we go.
00:53:35.740 --> 00:53:38.120
Phil: Okay, I'll play Go Get the Box music while you do that.
00:53:44.032 --> 00:53:45.492
Phil: Tom's going to get the box now.
00:53:46.412 --> 00:53:48.212
Phil: We're listening to Go Get the Box music.
00:53:49.712 --> 00:53:50.312
Phil: It's pretty good.
00:53:50.792 --> 00:53:51.552
Phil: I like this song.
00:53:52.352 --> 00:53:55.152
Phil: I should play it more, not just when he's going to go get a box.
00:53:56.472 --> 00:54:02.292
Phil: That way I can think back to this time where he was going to go get a box every time I hear this song now.
00:54:02.632 --> 00:54:07.152
Phil: Now every time you hear this song, you'll also think of Tom Towers going to get the box.
00:54:08.112 --> 00:54:08.812
Phil: Tom, are you back?
00:54:10.112 --> 00:54:10.712
Phil: He's not back.
00:54:12.432 --> 00:54:15.312
Phil: Well, we might have a truncated version of the Go Get the Box song.
00:54:18.072 --> 00:54:18.992
Phil: I think he's coming back.
00:54:19.012 --> 00:54:20.972
Phil: Here he comes.
00:54:20.992 --> 00:54:25.272
Phil: Here comes the words written on the box with Tom Towers.
00:54:27.832 --> 00:54:31.092
Phil: Tom Towers and What's Written on the Box.
00:54:33.192 --> 00:54:40.912
Phil: We're done listening to the Go Get the Box music and now here's Tom Towers to tell us what's written on the box.
00:54:43.692 --> 00:54:45.312
Phil: I don't think he's going to get the box.
00:54:45.332 --> 00:54:46.732
Phil: I think this is the end of the podcast.
00:54:46.752 --> 00:54:51.412
Phil: Well, thank you for listening to episode 125 of The Game Under Podcast.
00:54:51.692 --> 00:54:55.352
Phil: I've been your host, Phil Fogg, and I was joined by Tom Towers.
00:54:55.632 --> 00:55:00.972
Phil: Today we talked about Minecraft Dungeons, Final Fantasy VII.
01:03:10.512 --> 01:03:16.172
Tom: Top Gear, Super Mario All-Stars, one copy of that only.
01:03:16.572 --> 01:03:17.032
Phil: Brilliant.
01:03:17.092 --> 01:03:17.972
Phil: That's worth a lot of money.
01:03:18.072 --> 01:03:19.072
Tom: Yup.
01:03:19.252 --> 01:03:21.592
Tom: Unirally, did I mention Top Gear?
01:03:21.612 --> 01:03:21.892
Tom: Yes.
01:03:21.912 --> 01:03:29.292
Tom: Donkey Kong Country 2, Busby and another game that I cannot recall right now for some reason.
01:03:29.932 --> 01:03:30.772
Phil: Okay, sweet.
01:03:30.932 --> 01:03:32.932
Phil: Well, I've got a few hundred games for that system.
01:03:33.632 --> 01:03:34.972
Phil: No duplicates like you.
01:03:34.992 --> 01:03:36.332
Phil: I don't know what's going on there.
01:03:36.472 --> 01:03:42.372
Phil: But I think you can pick up games relatively good, and I'll give you some recommendations for games.
01:03:42.392 --> 01:03:45.772
Phil: And so how is it hooked up to your TV or monitor?
01:03:45.792 --> 01:04:01.112
Tom: Well, originally I just used RCA cables to the television, but basically everything except for Top Gear looks awful without upscaling on a large television, on a large HD television.
01:04:01.912 --> 01:04:20.992
Tom: So I've since then been using the Gainer $15 upscale, and either the technology has massively improved over the years, or the people suggesting that unless you got a $200 upscaler were completely full of shit.
01:04:21.592 --> 01:04:32.132
Tom: Because this $15 upscaler, it certainly does very slightly, detrimentally affect the colours.
01:04:33.072 --> 01:04:54.792
Tom: For the games I've tried, I don't notice any significant input latency, and it really does make a huge difference to the fuzziness of playing without it, with a virtually zero detriment to colours, and to me so far, no difference in input lag.
01:04:58.632 --> 01:05:16.632
Phil: I don't often play Super Nintendo games, but when I do, I have a clone system that is hooked up to RCA cables into the back of my TV, and then I just play it on 4-3 ratio, and that works well.
01:05:17.492 --> 01:05:19.492
Tom: I am playing it on 4-3 ratio.
01:05:20.412 --> 01:05:22.072
Tom: I certainly do not have it stretched.
01:05:24.012 --> 01:05:38.072
Tom: The one disadvantage of the Gain Upscaler, and I have failed to find any upscalers for purchase that will allow you to output an image in 4-3.
01:05:38.832 --> 01:05:43.732
Tom: The one I actually did find, 2, one was not available anywhere.
01:05:43.752 --> 01:05:54.452
Tom: The other, the review of it I found, said that you can switch between 4-3 and 16-9, but all the shops selling it say you can't.
01:05:54.732 --> 01:06:21.612
Tom: So unless you can alter the aspect ratio on whatever you are viewing the thing through, but this would apply just to plugging in the SNES itself anyway, I would recommend doing much more research than I did because I did only the cursory research to find one where you can switch the aspect ratio.
01:06:21.632 --> 01:06:41.652
Tom: Because if you have a monitor or television that has better colors to it, but you can't change the aspect ratio, to me games of this era, the graphical quality comes from the colors.
01:06:41.852 --> 01:06:51.492
Tom: I tried the SNES on my monitor, which is IPS, and the colors look significantly better than on the television.
01:06:53.552 --> 01:07:03.852
Tom: There's a night and day difference and a richness even to things like the Super Mario games that just completely change the experience.
01:07:03.852 --> 01:07:21.872
Tom: And in Super Mario, for instance, where you've got really basic geometry, to me, it's arguably better to have it stretched and high quality colors than to not have it stretched and worse quality colors.
01:07:23.252 --> 01:07:31.512
Tom: Which is also a demonstration of how well the upscaler does not get in the way of outputting high quality colors.
01:07:32.072 --> 01:07:34.532
Phil: What's the name of the upscaler that you purchased?
01:07:34.892 --> 01:07:38.052
Tom: The Gainer Mini upscaler.
01:07:38.912 --> 01:07:40.552
Tom: G-A-N-A.
01:07:41.112 --> 01:07:43.832
Tom: And it is $15, I believe.
01:07:44.412 --> 01:07:46.232
Phil: And it's available on eBay, I'm assuming?
01:07:46.432 --> 01:07:51.272
Tom: I think it's on eBay and Amazon and AliExpress as well, I think.
01:07:51.912 --> 01:07:53.012
Phil: Okay, upscaler.
01:07:53.692 --> 01:07:57.992
Phil: And also buyers beware, on eBay you'll see RCA to...
01:07:57.992 --> 01:07:59.972
Phil: Component.
01:08:00.272 --> 01:08:10.892
Phil: You'll see Super Nintendo to HDMI, which is basically just something that you plug in the back of the SNES and you plug it into the HDMI, and oftentimes they will not work.
01:08:12.112 --> 01:08:19.512
Phil: Because there's no upscaling going on, they're just selling you, technically correct, it is a plug that will plug in the back of the SNES.
01:08:19.752 --> 01:08:29.772
Tom: Any analog plugs to digital will require some sort of computer circuitry to be switching the image.
01:08:30.072 --> 01:08:33.012
Tom: So any just straight leads will not work.
01:08:33.432 --> 01:08:38.792
Phil: Will not work at all, but you can't do anything about it on eBay because they're technically correct.
01:08:39.472 --> 01:08:44.172
Phil: And I went through this a few years ago, I said, oh man, I'll get four of them, that's great.
01:08:45.512 --> 01:08:46.972
Phil: None of them work, they're all useless.
01:08:48.052 --> 01:08:48.932
Phil: So that's encouraging.
01:08:49.132 --> 01:08:52.152
Phil: The other way I usually play my SNES games is using a Retron 5.
01:08:52.552 --> 01:09:04.912
Phil: So the thing that I've got going on, even though I've got three Super Nintendo's, they're all US power, and I try and reduce the amount of US power consoles I plug in and hook up.
01:09:05.292 --> 01:09:11.832
Phil: So I always try and go with an Australian purchased device whenever I can.
01:09:13.012 --> 01:09:25.212
Phil: The Retron 5 is okay, but I certainly prefer the much cheaper clone that I've got, which was just one of those $30 jobs you get off eBay, where you can plug in an original SNES, and it's got the original SNES circuit board inside.
01:09:26.272 --> 01:09:28.272
Phil: But that's really great, I'm really happy about that.
01:09:28.292 --> 01:09:30.592
Phil: So is it permanently hooked up to your TV?
01:09:31.592 --> 01:09:35.432
Tom: No, but it is currently on the floor next to the television.
01:09:36.012 --> 01:09:41.692
Tom: So it's sort of close to being permanently hooked up to the television.
01:09:42.212 --> 01:09:51.692
Phil: And I don't know how much the SNES Mini now costs, but that's also another great option, particularly if you want to hack it and put a bunch of other stuff on.
01:09:51.752 --> 01:09:53.572
Phil: I haven't, because I just haven't.
01:09:53.592 --> 01:09:56.112
Tom: Well, this was technically free, so...
01:09:56.132 --> 01:09:56.712
Phil: You can't beat it.
01:09:57.232 --> 01:09:57.972
Tom: You can't beat it.
01:09:58.052 --> 01:10:02.272
Tom: And just one thing I would say, because I am...
01:10:02.292 --> 01:10:24.732
Tom: or I enjoy emulation, but the SNES games that I have emulated are compared to what this looks like, upscale to 1080p on my IPS monitor, stretching notwithstanding, there is a massively noticeable difference in the quality of the colors.
01:10:25.372 --> 01:10:26.092
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
01:10:26.112 --> 01:10:28.132
Phil: And I've always been an emulation snob.
01:10:28.212 --> 01:10:31.252
Phil: You know, I'm just like, why emulate when you've got the originals?
01:10:31.272 --> 01:10:32.772
Phil: Use the originals, they always look better.
01:10:33.792 --> 01:10:35.192
Tom: But if you don't have the originals...
01:10:35.932 --> 01:10:41.012
Phil: Then you can do it for historic purposes, but just know that you're not getting the same experience.
01:10:42.172 --> 01:10:42.712
Tom: Okay, cool.
01:10:42.732 --> 01:10:58.612
Tom: And the one other thing I would add about it is, while I've never owned an SNES or NES, my most recent, my oldest Nintendo console, rather, is the Nintendo 64.
01:10:59.152 --> 01:11:06.992
Tom: I have played the SNES and NES a lot at my cousin, so I do have experience with it.
01:11:07.332 --> 01:11:31.472
Tom: And it is pretty funny going from a disc-based console, and even compared to the N64, to this, this feels significantly more durable, even though it is lighter, and has some feeling of invincibility to it, as opposed to other consoles.
01:11:31.532 --> 01:11:58.052
Tom: And it is, I need to clean it, and it is rather ratty in many ways, yet it works perfectly, and all the buttons and putting the cartridges in and out is pretty much what I remember it being like in the perfect condition SNES of my cousins.
01:12:00.472 --> 01:12:01.612
Phil: I'm going to give you some homework.
01:12:01.632 --> 01:12:05.752
Phil: So number one, it's also easy to pick up controllers for it these days.
01:12:06.232 --> 01:12:08.072
Tom: It had two with it, amazingly.
01:12:08.532 --> 01:12:22.672
Phil: And the other thing I was going to do for your homework, this is going to blow your mind, I'm not sure you're ready for it, but the plug that leads out of the back of a Super Nintendo is identical to the plug that leads out of an N64 and a GameCube.
01:12:23.012 --> 01:12:28.552
Tom: That is in fact how I was able to plug it into the television with RCA.
01:12:31.252 --> 01:12:38.092
Phil: Okay, so have you tried plugging your new Super Duper Gana Mini into the back of your N64 to see if that works?
01:12:38.512 --> 01:12:39.512
Tom: I will have to do that.
01:12:39.592 --> 01:12:49.272
Tom: And I'm also planning to try that with my Wii U PS2 and GameCube and whatever else is around when I get around to it.
01:12:49.772 --> 01:12:55.352
Tom: Because it will be, and I suspect you probably won't get the same sort of gains in it.
01:12:55.372 --> 01:13:11.852
Tom: The commentary I found on specifically the Gana, which also claims that you can use another one for switching between 4, 3 and 16 to 9 and all other sources seem to claim otherwise, so who knows if they're accurate.
01:13:12.052 --> 01:13:20.772
Tom: But they suggest that for more recent consoles, a different sort of upscaler is a better choice.
01:13:22.732 --> 01:13:28.472
Phil: Let me just clarify, so this Gana thing, does it have a plug on it that plugs into the back of your SNES?
01:13:29.772 --> 01:13:34.192
Tom: It has RCA inputs and HDMI output.
01:13:35.052 --> 01:13:38.632
Phil: Okay, that's right, because on the back of the SNES, you had the RCA outputs.
01:13:39.512 --> 01:13:40.272
Phil: Not just the...
01:13:40.532 --> 01:13:42.692
Phil: yeah, so what I'm talking about is a little grey plug.
01:13:42.712 --> 01:13:49.552
Tom: So on the SNES, you've got the MultiOut, which is what is compatible with the N64 and GameCube.
01:13:49.952 --> 01:13:55.772
Tom: You've got the standard single aerial style output.
01:13:56.752 --> 01:13:58.432
Tom: And is there a third one, or is that it?
01:14:00.332 --> 01:14:00.912
Phil: No, that's it.
01:14:01.952 --> 01:14:02.372
Phil: That's it.
01:14:02.492 --> 01:14:03.212
Phil: But the back...
01:14:03.232 --> 01:14:05.432
Phil: I didn't know that the back of the N64...
01:14:05.432 --> 01:14:11.392
Phil: Yeah, see, the back of the N64 only has that one proprietary plug out.
01:14:11.412 --> 01:14:12.992
Phil: It doesn't have any RCA out.
01:14:13.012 --> 01:14:14.072
Phil: The PlayStation one does.
01:14:14.092 --> 01:14:18.112
Tom: Correct, but the MultiOut is what is the RCA cable.
01:14:18.372 --> 01:14:19.952
Tom: They just call it MultiOut.
01:14:20.932 --> 01:14:23.212
Tom: So it's not RCA to RCA.
01:14:23.252 --> 01:14:29.072
Tom: It's Nintendo's plug thing so that they can sell you leads to RCA.
01:14:29.892 --> 01:14:36.732
Phil: Okay, so just to be very clear, the plug out that is on this gainer is the one that will fit into the N64 as well.
01:14:36.752 --> 01:14:39.552
Tom: No, the input on the gainer is RCA.
01:14:40.692 --> 01:14:41.692
Phil: Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
01:14:41.712 --> 01:14:42.492
Phil: Okay, I'm an idiot.
01:14:42.512 --> 01:14:44.852
Phil: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
01:14:44.932 --> 01:14:53.192
Tom: MultiOut is just simply the Nintendo in the vein of Apple RCA cable.
01:14:53.652 --> 01:15:03.072
Phil: Okay, I've got countless RCA switches that I could send to you too, so you could hook up to four different devices to the gainer without having to unplug it all the time.
01:15:03.092 --> 01:15:04.772
Phil: You just slide the switch along.
01:15:06.272 --> 01:15:07.252
Phil: We can look forward to that.
01:15:07.852 --> 01:15:08.292
Tom: Excellent.
01:15:08.952 --> 01:15:13.092
Tom: I believe, unfortunately, the SNES is region locked though, isn't it?
01:15:14.912 --> 01:15:16.172
Phil: It's a physical region lock.
01:15:18.992 --> 01:15:19.912
Phil: Yeah, so...
01:15:19.952 --> 01:15:22.332
Tom: And I would assume yours is NTSC.
01:15:23.012 --> 01:15:25.132
Phil: It is NTSC, yeah, yeah.
01:15:25.212 --> 01:15:27.312
Phil: But I know the N64, it doesn't matter.
01:15:27.612 --> 01:15:29.412
Phil: Oh yeah, it does matter, because I tried to play some...
01:15:30.172 --> 01:15:33.332
Phil: I tried to play Episode 1 Podracer on it, and it didn't work.
01:15:33.352 --> 01:15:35.392
Tom: As of this morning, that is a great game.
01:15:35.852 --> 01:15:37.112
Phil: Yeah, it is a great game.
01:15:39.052 --> 01:15:49.612
Phil: So, other things that people have been looking forward to, besides Final Fantasy VII Remake, has been another remake that I believe you've recently played the demo for, also on the PlayStation 4, I'm assuming.
01:15:49.632 --> 01:15:52.132
Tom: No, I played this on PC, on Steam.
01:15:53.092 --> 01:15:53.892
Phil: Oh, it's on Steam.
01:15:54.572 --> 01:15:59.532
Phil: You know, what else is on Steam now is that pirate game for Xbox, Sea of Thieves.
01:15:59.552 --> 01:16:00.232
Tom: Sea of Thieves.
01:16:00.492 --> 01:16:02.172
Phil: Yeah, that's on Steam now.
01:16:04.152 --> 01:16:06.832
Tom: So that means it must be free on Games Pass for PC, I assume.
01:16:06.972 --> 01:16:07.852
Phil: It has to be.
01:16:07.952 --> 01:16:09.512
Phil: Yeah, I assume so.
01:16:10.812 --> 01:16:14.652
Tom: Speaking of Games Pass, just a short aside before...
01:16:14.672 --> 01:16:18.272
Phil: I think we're on our fourth Speaking Of, so I'll see if I can keep it going.
01:16:19.532 --> 01:16:23.272
Tom: Games Pass is an amazing utility.
01:16:23.452 --> 01:16:35.272
Tom: I was looking to finally get into Pathologic at some point, but I owned Pathologic and Pathologic Classic HD.
01:16:35.292 --> 01:16:45.732
Tom: Pathologic 2, despite being called 2, is actually a reimagining of the original Pathologic, so there's basically three versions of the one game.
01:16:46.852 --> 01:16:51.492
Tom: And another game in a similar vein I was interested in was Plague Tale.
01:16:51.832 --> 01:16:53.672
Tom: I believe it's a ridiculous title.
01:16:54.812 --> 01:16:58.272
Tom: And they're all free on Games Pass, apparently.
01:16:59.772 --> 01:17:01.192
Phil: It's not the game I was thinking of.
01:17:01.212 --> 01:17:02.492
Phil: I was thinking of a different game.
01:17:03.232 --> 01:17:13.332
Tom: Pathologic is by, I think they're called Icepick Lodge, an avant-garde Russian game developer.
01:17:13.352 --> 01:17:15.452
Tom: Famous for the void outside of this.
01:17:16.172 --> 01:17:17.332
Phil: RPG survival game.
01:17:18.212 --> 01:17:19.512
Phil: That's not the one I was thinking of.
01:17:21.112 --> 01:17:23.812
Tom: I believe one reviewer described it as Skyrim Lite.
01:17:26.632 --> 01:17:30.132
Phil: I don't know how you'd get any lighter than Skyrim Lite.
01:17:30.712 --> 01:17:33.672
Phil: Probably if you made it Home Alone or whatever it was called.
01:17:34.972 --> 01:17:41.412
Phil: But speaking of games that you don't want to be left home alone with, I believe you've been playing Resident Evil 3 on PC.
01:17:41.432 --> 01:17:43.492
Tom: Yes, the demo for it.
01:17:45.072 --> 01:17:46.632
Tom: There's not much to say about it.
01:17:46.652 --> 01:17:56.592
Tom: It suffers from the same issue of remaking an isometric game to 3D.
01:17:56.732 --> 01:18:00.712
Tom: It's going to make that environment significantly less interesting.
01:18:00.732 --> 01:18:09.852
Tom: Here, you're dealing with an environment that just is not of the same standard of interest in the original as Final Fantasy VII was.
01:18:09.912 --> 01:18:18.672
Tom: When you are translating that to 3D, the result is even more bland and uninteresting.
01:18:20.512 --> 01:18:28.752
Tom: The other issue is, again, it follows the environment pretty closely to what I remember Resident Evil 2 being.
01:18:29.232 --> 01:18:35.492
Tom: At least in the demo, for me that didn't result in particularly interesting encounters.
01:18:36.332 --> 01:18:38.432
Tom: There was absolutely no tension.
01:18:39.872 --> 01:18:46.252
Tom: There was always, it felt like, too much room to be able to easily avoid zombies.
01:18:47.472 --> 01:18:55.752
Tom: And you could put too much space between you and zombies with no difficulty to be able to shoot them.
01:18:56.092 --> 01:19:05.072
Tom: It feels more like Revelations than RE4, RE5 and presumably RE6 is in a similar vein, style mechanics.
01:19:05.452 --> 01:19:26.092
Tom: In Resident Evil Revelations, at least the first one and what I played at the second, the design of the levels was very compact, very corridor based, so that if you were coming up against zombies, you were in much more immediate threat and you had to sprint away.
01:19:26.152 --> 01:19:29.732
Tom: It was difficult to get space between you and zombies.
01:19:29.932 --> 01:19:49.672
Tom: Here that wasn't the case at all, but it is a demo, so things may be easier and less tense than they are in the actual game itself, so that people aren't put off playing.
01:19:50.232 --> 01:20:00.112
Phil: You went into this, obviously, you downloaded it, you bothered to do it, so you obviously went into this with high hopes, but came out of it less like meh.
01:20:00.572 --> 01:20:04.012
Tom: It was thoroughly disappointing, I found it to be.
01:20:06.452 --> 01:20:07.572
Phil: Well, I'm sorry to hear that.
01:20:07.592 --> 01:20:09.452
Phil: I was never a fan of Resident Evil 3.
01:20:09.472 --> 01:20:19.112
Tom: The one thing I will say it had going for it, which is kind of a reverse of Final Fantasy VII, is the voice acting.
01:20:20.072 --> 01:20:34.412
Tom: The Resident Evil series has really settled into a great level of self-aware hoaxiness without becoming annoying and pretentious.
01:20:34.652 --> 01:20:43.112
Tom: So the small snippets of story and character banter was highly amusing and entertaining.
01:20:44.452 --> 01:20:46.912
Phil: Yeah, I think only the Japanese are capable of that.
01:20:47.052 --> 01:20:50.352
Phil: Maybe the British, but yeah, definitely the British.
01:20:50.992 --> 01:20:53.592
Phil: But there's certainly not many other cultures.
01:20:54.972 --> 01:21:01.512
Phil: For me, my favorites are two, and then I jump straight to Code Veronica, then four, then five, obviously.
01:21:01.592 --> 01:21:06.152
Phil: And then I haven't really been interested in any of the other games since then.
01:21:07.072 --> 01:21:10.232
Phil: But I have them all, and I'm going to play them all at some point.
01:21:10.432 --> 01:21:14.972
Phil: I was actually really interested in playing a remake on the GameCube.
01:21:16.132 --> 01:21:17.672
Phil: I was reading about that last night.
01:21:17.872 --> 01:21:21.992
Phil: And then probably jumping to the remake of two.
01:21:23.032 --> 01:21:28.472
Tom: The remake of the original, as we have heard on the show, is a fantastic game.
01:21:28.992 --> 01:21:29.392
Phil: Yeah.
01:21:29.652 --> 01:21:31.132
Phil: So why am I doing that?
01:21:31.152 --> 01:21:33.852
Phil: Why would I go back and play the GameCube version?
01:21:35.572 --> 01:21:41.872
Tom: Well, the only difference with the more recent version of the remake of the original is that it's in HDs, isn't it?
01:21:42.392 --> 01:21:45.932
Tom: It's essentially a remastering of the GameCube remake.
01:21:46.772 --> 01:21:47.992
Phil: I'd have to do research.
01:21:48.012 --> 01:21:49.632
Phil: I thought it was something brand new.
01:21:49.672 --> 01:21:52.172
Tom: The Resident Evil 2 remake is something brand new.
01:21:52.232 --> 01:21:52.732
Phil: Brand new.
01:21:54.232 --> 01:22:09.012
Phil: Because I tried playing the Saturn version of the original about two years ago, and it's really not playable at this point for someone who's just trying to get into it and sort of see what it's about, unfortunately.
01:22:09.792 --> 01:22:11.032
Phil: It's functional and everything.
01:22:11.132 --> 01:22:14.792
Phil: It's just got pretty poor checkpointing and resources.
01:22:15.272 --> 01:22:20.592
Phil: You know, it's an old game where you're supposed to try and get as much value out of it as possible by playing it over and over and over again.
01:22:20.612 --> 01:22:23.712
Phil: So, yeah, I'm interested to see whether...
01:22:23.912 --> 01:22:27.572
Phil: This has to be leading to a remake of RE4 and Code Veronica.
01:22:29.552 --> 01:22:30.772
Phil: I think they've already announced for it.
01:22:30.792 --> 01:22:31.332
Phil: I'm not sure.
01:22:31.692 --> 01:22:40.992
Phil: Okay, well, I thought maybe next we would talk about another old game that we both recently started and finished this year.
01:22:42.452 --> 01:22:46.972
Phil: Because you've been a big protagonist of Sky from That Game Company.
01:22:46.992 --> 01:22:49.552
Phil: In fact, it made your ten best games of...
01:22:49.832 --> 01:22:52.492
Tom: I believe the fifth best game of the decade.
01:22:52.712 --> 01:22:53.892
Phil: Of the decade, yep.
01:22:54.352 --> 01:22:54.732
Phil: And...
01:22:56.112 --> 01:22:59.052
Phil: But we both went back and played Journey recently.
01:22:59.472 --> 01:23:02.912
Phil: I played it on the original hardware on a PlayStation 3.
01:23:03.932 --> 01:23:05.032
Phil: And you played it on...
01:23:05.432 --> 01:23:07.512
Tom: The free PS4 version.
01:23:08.312 --> 01:23:09.392
Phil: So is it free for everyone?
01:23:09.412 --> 01:23:11.572
Tom: It's free for everyone.
01:23:12.272 --> 01:23:16.272
Tom: As well as the Drake's Fortune collection.
01:23:16.292 --> 01:23:17.332
Tom: Or whatever the fuck it's called.
01:23:17.592 --> 01:23:18.152
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
01:23:18.172 --> 01:23:20.832
Phil: And I'm not bothering to download any of that.
01:23:21.952 --> 01:23:23.172
Phil: I've got Journey on disc.
01:23:23.192 --> 01:23:27.872
Phil: I've got the collector's edition, which has Flow, Flower, Journey.
01:23:28.712 --> 01:23:29.412
Phil: I didn't tell you this.
01:23:29.432 --> 01:23:31.712
Phil: It's got three games that they did at a game jam.
01:23:32.552 --> 01:23:34.012
Phil: That you're probably very interested in.
01:23:35.352 --> 01:23:41.852
Phil: And then also making of videos that I've looked through on YouTube so I could send them to you, but they don't have them on YouTube.
01:23:42.012 --> 01:23:46.332
Phil: And they're interviews with all the people at...
01:23:47.612 --> 01:23:48.632
Phil: Kelly, what's her name?
01:23:48.652 --> 01:23:50.232
Tom: Calla Santiago.
01:23:50.452 --> 01:23:50.872
Phil: Yeah.
01:23:51.152 --> 01:23:52.092
Tom: Janova Chan.
01:23:52.112 --> 01:23:53.772
Phil: Janova Chan and the other guy.
01:23:53.952 --> 01:23:57.612
Phil: And so it's really a nice little package.
01:23:57.712 --> 01:23:59.452
Phil: So it's a collector's edition.
01:24:00.552 --> 01:24:04.152
Phil: It does require that you install them and I think in some way download them.
01:24:05.352 --> 01:24:07.792
Phil: So I played Journey back when it came out.
01:24:08.652 --> 01:24:09.312
Tom: As did I.
01:24:09.792 --> 01:24:10.092
Phil: Yep.
01:24:10.212 --> 01:24:16.752
Phil: And I thought in light of what you've been saying about Sky and that you were going to go back and play Journey, I said, well, fine, I'll do that too.
01:24:16.772 --> 01:24:19.552
Phil: It's only like two hours, I think, to play through the whole game.
01:24:20.632 --> 01:24:22.632
Tom: Or even less depending on how fast you are.
01:24:23.132 --> 01:24:23.532
Phil: Yeah.
01:24:23.552 --> 01:24:27.312
Phil: So I'll just give you a voice arrest and I'll give you my impressions.
01:24:27.332 --> 01:24:31.992
Phil: First of all, visually it was very impressive still.
01:24:32.052 --> 01:24:39.792
Phil: And this is playing on a launch PlayStation 3 on a modern HDTV using a PlayStation 3 controller.
01:24:40.732 --> 01:24:44.572
Phil: The sand looked just as glorious as it did the first time I saw it.
01:24:46.172 --> 01:24:48.412
Phil: The aesthetic of it, I quite enjoyed.
01:24:50.672 --> 01:24:52.432
Phil: And was very unified.
01:24:52.452 --> 01:24:56.612
Phil: It reminded me, the architecture in some places reminded me of The Last Guardian.
01:24:56.632 --> 01:24:57.812
Phil: Definitely.
01:25:00.152 --> 01:25:11.292
Tom: I think Journey, though, is very much influenced, as well as Sky and potentially other Genova Shen games, by Ico and Shadow of the Colossus.
01:25:11.772 --> 01:25:14.292
Phil: Yeah, and you can see that come through quite clearly.
01:25:14.312 --> 01:25:23.032
Phil: I've just been reading a Making Of interview with That Game Company for Flower, which I should send you a copy of.
01:25:23.052 --> 01:25:26.132
Phil: It's like a four-page interview in Edge.
01:25:29.112 --> 01:25:30.532
Phil: And they're very thoughtful.
01:25:30.772 --> 01:25:36.492
Phil: What I like about every detail of Journey is that there's nothing that's out of place in any way.
01:25:38.232 --> 01:25:43.792
Phil: And there are themes for every level, but they all fit and they all flow, not to.
01:25:52.192 --> 01:25:56.312
Phil: I'm really going to get it together today.
01:25:56.332 --> 01:26:03.672
Phil: So now what happens was, though, it crashed my PlayStation 3 and lost my save several, several times.
01:26:03.772 --> 01:26:06.872
Phil: And in fact, it got to the point where I knew it would crash.
01:26:07.312 --> 01:26:09.372
Phil: It was crashing at the same point every time.
01:26:09.772 --> 01:26:21.052
Phil: So basically what I tried to do was limit my view on the screen so there was less moving bits, because whenever something was too many things on the screen, it would kill the PlayStation.
01:26:21.512 --> 01:26:25.932
Phil: So I'd have to figure out how to turn the camera, walk forward, but turn the camera to the left.
01:26:25.952 --> 01:26:27.432
Phil: So it's just looking at the sand dune.
01:26:28.212 --> 01:26:29.492
Phil: And I got through it like that.
01:26:30.092 --> 01:26:33.412
Phil: And ultimately I got through the end of the game.
01:26:33.472 --> 01:26:41.872
Phil: I played it online because I wanted to see if anyone else was out there to interact with, because you can talk more about the hook of the game.
01:26:43.032 --> 01:26:48.232
Phil: And sadly, there's no one out there at all, even though I was online the entire time.
01:26:48.412 --> 01:26:54.352
Tom: When I played the PS3 version originally, for some reason I ran into a few players, weirdly.
01:26:55.952 --> 01:27:00.012
Phil: Well, we can't say it wasn't big in Japan, so it can't be that excuse.
01:27:01.352 --> 01:27:06.992
Phil: So, like, you know, I guess that's where I'll let my impression stop until I hear more of what you have to say.
01:27:07.772 --> 01:27:24.052
Phil: Ultimately, though, Gameplayed as a single player game is not fulfilling as, you know, it's just not as fulfilling and certainly seems like a very lonely experience and obviously not the intended...
01:27:24.072 --> 01:27:33.832
Phil: They probably intended to be a very lonely game if there's no one else to play with, which is the point, but certainly wasn't as involving as if...
01:27:34.372 --> 01:27:35.952
Phil: And more difficult, too.
01:27:35.972 --> 01:27:39.632
Phil: I mean, there are some levels where it's more difficult to get through if you're trying to do it yourself.
01:27:39.992 --> 01:27:42.812
Tom: Yep, because you charge one another...
01:27:43.212 --> 01:27:43.632
Phil: Yeah, exactly...
01:27:43.632 --> 01:27:43.632
Tom: .
01:27:43.632 --> 01:27:45.912
Tom: in the same way you do in Sky.
01:27:46.372 --> 01:27:47.652
Phil: Yeah, so it was really...
01:27:48.472 --> 01:27:50.492
Phil: You had some frustration in some levels.
01:27:52.032 --> 01:27:52.912
Phil: But, yeah.
01:27:52.952 --> 01:27:54.932
Phil: So how was your experience?
01:27:55.692 --> 01:28:14.192
Tom: Well, it's useful that you played the PS3 version because that reminded me that I ran into a lot of technical problems with slowdown and things like that as well, as well as not running into many other players when I originally played it on PS3.
01:28:14.352 --> 01:28:30.272
Tom: And when I did, they just kind of ran off and did their own thing, except for one in the vertical level where you're filling it up with water and one at the end in the snow area.
01:28:30.872 --> 01:28:39.072
Tom: And in my original playthrough, I think those both hurt the experience a lot, particularly the technical deficiencies.
01:28:40.252 --> 01:28:44.232
Tom: You will recall that when I originally played it, I was not a fan at all.
01:28:44.252 --> 01:28:48.292
Tom: I found it to be very dull and uninteresting.
01:28:48.652 --> 01:29:24.112
Tom: And I think the biggest contributing factor to that was the technical problems, because for the aesthetic of Journey to Work, I think you need an uninterrupted flow with it, because as well as in terms of the gameplay, visually as well, it is playing with sudden grandiose reveals and then troughs of desert where there is not much going on visually and shadow areas later on and that sort of thing.
01:29:24.692 --> 01:29:41.932
Tom: So when you get to the big grandiose reveal and it's at 10 frames per second and the music starts, it kind of ruins the effect of it and the momentum of the game, that the game itself is trying to build as well.
01:29:41.952 --> 01:29:50.912
Tom: So playing this on the PS4 version was basically a completely different experience and I ended up really enjoying it.
01:29:53.352 --> 01:30:01.952
Tom: And the higher resolution as well, the original from what I can remember must have been 720p, not 1080p.
01:30:02.272 --> 01:30:38.012
Tom: At the higher resolution, you can really see the detail in the sand so much better, but more importantly than that, you can see details in the architecture and in the Tibetan prayer-like threads of cloth and your character as well, which allows you to enjoy this cloth-like puppet texture that is throughout these levels and appreciate as you're going along, realising that which is a fascinating thing in Sky as well.
01:30:38.232 --> 01:30:46.832
Tom: Even though you're going through these desert areas, there's this aquatic theme to the way everything looks like.
01:30:46.852 --> 01:31:02.992
Tom: The Tibetan prayer-threads of cloth are all like aquatic reeds at the bottom of a water, and the flying creatures are all clearly aquatic based.
01:31:03.532 --> 01:31:10.932
Tom: And that's apparent not just in the watery level that is there, it's apparent throughout the entire game.
01:31:11.252 --> 01:31:19.072
Tom: So when you have technical things getting in the way of that, that to me ruined the experience, so it was a completely different thing.
01:31:19.512 --> 01:31:20.752
Tom: The music as well...
01:31:20.772 --> 01:31:22.172
Phil: Can I interject before?
01:31:22.272 --> 01:31:26.772
Phil: Because you're saying, oh, well, I didn't appreciate this game back then because of technical issues.
01:31:28.112 --> 01:31:28.932
Phil: Could it be...
01:31:29.212 --> 01:31:40.012
Phil: Now, keeping in mind your screenshot of Deadly Premonition, I don't disagree, because did you play this game on a 12 inch standard definition television through RCA cables initially?
01:31:40.292 --> 01:31:41.692
Tom: Well, actually, I can't remember.
01:31:41.712 --> 01:31:44.112
Tom: I may well have actually played it on that television.
01:31:44.472 --> 01:31:46.912
Tom: That would actually be correct probably.
01:31:47.172 --> 01:31:47.752
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
01:31:47.772 --> 01:31:49.092
Phil: And now you're seeing it in HD.
01:31:49.172 --> 01:31:49.812
Phil: Yeah.
01:31:50.012 --> 01:31:51.372
Phil: So let's just be clear about that.
01:31:51.392 --> 01:31:54.312
Phil: Some of your technical issues may have been due to the hardware.
01:31:55.692 --> 01:31:56.472
Phil: But the other question...
01:31:56.492 --> 01:32:27.272
Tom: But I do think that things like the slowdown were what really got in the way of the experience, because the momentum that it builds up of slowing you down, then speeding up with a feeling of freedom as you're flying or skiing down something and grandiose reveals, that really gets shat on by having those grandiose reveals running at 10 frames per second.
01:32:28.052 --> 01:32:36.232
Phil: The other question I was going to ask is, could this new enjoyment of the game be some sort of change inside of you as a person over the intervening years?
01:32:36.572 --> 01:32:43.932
Phil: Or possibly, are you wearing rose-tinted glasses because of how favorably you enjoyed Sky?
01:32:45.092 --> 01:32:55.052
Tom: I think it's not necessarily either of those things, but I think it is a acquired taste and my appreciation for it.
01:32:55.112 --> 01:33:06.112
Tom: I'm more open to appreciating it based not so much on Sky as the interviews I saw with Jenova Chen.
01:33:07.232 --> 01:33:28.232
Tom: And on top of that, I would also argue that probably I was also a little bit annoyed by the commentary that some of the game got, which I don't think I was necessarily wrong because the way it was described, that is not my experience of it at all.
01:33:30.152 --> 01:33:39.152
Tom: It's not this Zen-like experience of otherworldly mind expansion.
01:33:39.852 --> 01:34:09.792
Tom: To me, it is appreciating something that is visually beautiful and orally beautiful and that plays with those things in terms of a very basic gameplay loop of slowing you down and allowing you some freedom to fly around more freely, which was not the sense of the game that I got at the time at all.
01:34:11.092 --> 01:34:13.712
Phil: You would have been able to hear the game just as well.
01:34:13.732 --> 01:34:16.292
Phil: Did that also slow down when you played it the first time?
01:34:16.352 --> 01:34:18.672
Tom: The sound sometimes also slowed down.
01:34:19.792 --> 01:34:27.692
Tom: And some of the criticism of the sound I still have, I don't think that the grandiose moments are really...
01:34:27.952 --> 01:34:33.452
Tom: that the music does not live up to the visuals or the gameplay of the grandiose moments.
01:34:33.712 --> 01:34:46.932
Tom: But this time I appreciated the music in the slower moments and it really carried you through them and kept your interest where you could be getting really bored out of your mind.
01:34:47.612 --> 01:34:52.952
Tom: And I think that was the strength of the music and I don't think it's a failing that it didn't live up to the grandiose moments.
01:34:52.972 --> 01:35:02.632
Tom: I think it knew that it should get out of the way and let how the game looked be the focus and the freedom of flying be the focus.
01:35:08.467 --> 01:35:09.567
Phil: I'm just letting you go here.
01:35:10.027 --> 01:35:11.647
Tom: Okay, well, that was the end of that statement.
01:35:12.107 --> 01:35:12.587
Phil: Okay.
01:35:14.407 --> 01:35:15.667
Tom: I'm seeing if I have anything else.
01:35:16.147 --> 01:35:16.387
Phil: Yeah.
01:35:17.967 --> 01:35:20.327
Phil: Because I've got to see Quinn before she goes to sleep.
01:35:20.767 --> 01:35:21.887
Phil: Yep.
01:35:22.007 --> 01:35:24.127
Phil: So I figured we'd do this, then Sky.
01:35:25.487 --> 01:35:27.607
Tom: I think that's probably all I have to say about Journey.
01:35:28.087 --> 01:35:28.507
Phil: Okay.
01:35:28.787 --> 01:35:31.427
Tom: And Sky should be a short following on from that.
01:35:31.707 --> 01:35:39.327
Phil: Yep, and then I want to just do some promotion on The Game Under site for what we've done since the last show.
01:35:40.447 --> 01:35:43.627
Phil: So we'll have to wrap up your impression of Journey.
01:35:44.847 --> 01:35:46.727
Tom: That is the end of my Journey impressions.
01:35:46.967 --> 01:35:50.507
Phil: Yeah, I know it's the end of your impressions, but you've got to put a bow on it somehow.
01:35:54.907 --> 01:35:55.847
Phil: So I'll just pick up here.
01:35:57.507 --> 01:36:06.947
Phil: So obviously you enjoyed the experience of The Game much more, and you don't think that that was influenced by how much you appreciate and enjoy it.
01:36:07.007 --> 01:36:11.287
Phil: You enjoy Sky, but just more of an awareness of where the creators were coming from.
01:36:12.207 --> 01:36:16.247
Phil: I went into Journey Hostile because I hated Flow and I hated Flower.
01:36:16.847 --> 01:36:26.587
Phil: I liked Flower a little bit better than Flow, but not by much because it relied on six axis controls and they were absolutely horrible and the game was barely playable.
01:36:27.127 --> 01:36:29.907
Phil: And so I actually quite enjoyed Journey when I played it.
01:36:30.227 --> 01:36:32.407
Phil: I found it to be a good game at the time.
01:36:34.047 --> 01:36:46.527
Phil: I was distracted, as were you, with the hype-like critical praise it was receiving, but I still thought it was probably my top ten of games for that year because it was so unique and different and well executed.
01:36:48.747 --> 01:36:52.847
Phil: So you're now leaving Journey with a favorable impression.
01:36:53.307 --> 01:37:09.747
Tom: Yeah, I ended up really, really enjoying it and I would agree with your impressions of it at the time much more now and it certainly stands out as an original and iconic game of that generation.
01:37:09.767 --> 01:37:17.667
Tom: I think it does indeed deserve praise even if the praise didn't necessarily describe it particularly well.
01:37:17.867 --> 01:37:29.547
Tom: And definitely I will say I had better experiences with other players this time and you can really see similarities with what they were doing in Sky there.
01:37:29.807 --> 01:37:42.707
Tom: Sky is very much built on journey with less of a focus on the slowing you down and letting you then reach grandiose peaks.
01:37:43.907 --> 01:37:47.907
Tom: But still very much the dynamic of other players is there in Sky.
01:37:48.567 --> 01:37:57.347
Phil: I just went to our never updated or used scores archive on The Game under.net and I gave it a 9 out of 10 in 2013.
01:37:57.407 --> 01:38:00.787
Phil: And you can listen to my impressions of the game in episode 22.
01:38:02.567 --> 01:38:03.707
Tom: Did I give it a score?
01:38:04.167 --> 01:38:04.827
Phil: You did not.
01:38:05.467 --> 01:38:07.187
Tom: I've got to give it a score now, I just realised.
01:38:07.207 --> 01:38:08.847
Tom: And I just got the dice to do so.
01:38:12.547 --> 01:38:17.627
Tom: And it gets a 9, no, an 8 out of 10.
01:38:18.367 --> 01:38:19.447
Phil: 8 out of 10, very good.
01:38:19.467 --> 01:38:22.087
Phil: I'll add that to the scores archive.
01:38:23.367 --> 01:38:29.407
Phil: And yeah, I just clicked on the link for episode 22, which I think was called Jenova's Witness.
01:38:30.907 --> 01:38:32.927
Phil: And I actually gave it a long review.
01:38:32.947 --> 01:38:38.867
Phil: It went from minute 17 to minute 35, and then we spent four hours in a Killzone minute.
01:38:39.107 --> 01:38:42.267
Phil: So, sounds typical to the time.
01:38:42.807 --> 01:38:45.287
Phil: The name of that episode was indeed Jenova's Witness.
01:38:45.487 --> 01:38:47.087
Phil: So, that's great.
01:38:47.107 --> 01:38:48.687
Phil: So, you are now Jenova's Witness.
01:38:48.847 --> 01:38:50.487
Tom: Yes, I am a believer.
01:38:51.067 --> 01:39:01.287
Phil: You are going to give us final impressions of your game, Sky, even though it's hard to imagine, given that you have given such wonderful full impressions prior in the written form and on this podcast.
01:39:01.427 --> 01:39:12.727
Tom: Yes, well, I can now give final impressions, given that I have unlocked all of the elders, which I believe means that I have technically finished the game.
01:39:13.827 --> 01:39:17.147
Tom: And a couple of things to note.
01:39:18.067 --> 01:39:31.067
Tom: I don't really need to go into much details or impressions, but it is basically a MMORPG, so it has been a fascinating experience watching the game change over its lifetime.
01:39:31.107 --> 01:39:35.087
Tom: It must be getting on to being about a year old now or around that.
01:39:35.807 --> 01:39:37.047
Phil: Oh, more, I'd say, yeah.
01:39:37.047 --> 01:39:58.487
Tom: Yep, and when you get to a certain level, the interest in the game, other than trying to be as efficient as possible in collecting candles and making friendships to trade hearts with people, is looking for glitches and exploits and things like that.
01:39:58.567 --> 01:40:04.767
Tom: And a lot of it has seemed like it is deliberate, and a lot of it has seemed like it isn't.
01:40:05.187 --> 01:40:29.607
Tom: But that has made for a really fascinating and interesting high-level play from one of the better terms, where you're able to find random candles in an area that you're not meant to get to from a level, random old spirits from former seasons that shouldn't be there, floating in the air.
01:40:31.547 --> 01:40:47.387
Tom: Again, in another area you're not meant to get to, how to get into an area that is meant to be a place to reward beta players and people that have bought a certain cape to support the company using glitches, things like that.
01:40:47.507 --> 01:41:00.407
Tom: And if that's deliberate, it is a brilliant way of doing high-level play, but one does suspect that perhaps it isn't, given that a lot of the stuff often gets fixed on and off.
01:41:00.927 --> 01:41:13.247
Tom: So maybe it is a happy accident that once you've been playing for a long time, you get to explore and break the game in interesting ways that are beneficial and fun.
01:41:13.467 --> 01:41:20.167
Tom: There are other things that are certainly deliberate that they have been adding to later seasons.
01:41:20.187 --> 01:41:24.227
Tom: For instance, I should add the seasons as they've gone along.
01:41:24.727 --> 01:41:32.547
Tom: To begin with, each season was at least a month long, and I think they have all been $15.
01:41:32.667 --> 01:41:45.747
Tom: And if you pay $15, what you end up with is getting extra items from the season and extra candles as you play and an extra candle by default each day.
01:41:46.107 --> 01:41:55.507
Tom: As they've gone along, the seasons have lengthened out to the point from 30 to 40 to now 60 days.
01:41:56.147 --> 01:42:11.447
Tom: And $15 to me is a bit ridiculous given that some of the seasons were just one month and essentially all they added was a spirit that you found in the normal areas of the game and a few extra items.
01:42:11.467 --> 01:42:14.787
Tom: That seemed like not really good value for money.
01:42:15.067 --> 01:42:18.507
Tom: But the latter seasons, the stories have got more complex.
01:42:18.767 --> 01:42:26.947
Tom: They've added areas with them and the spirits have been in the new areas and they're also significantly longer and also have more items.
01:42:26.967 --> 01:42:30.647
Tom: So it's more of a reasonable price now.
01:42:30.787 --> 01:42:42.747
Tom: And one of the most interesting things about the later season, which again one wonders if it was deliberate or not, but basically you could get to it before the season was out.
01:42:42.767 --> 01:42:45.047
Tom: You could get to the new area and go around.
01:42:46.607 --> 01:42:55.147
Tom: And in the area, there was a mechanic that was completely unlike anything else in the game, which was mushroom picking.
01:42:55.167 --> 01:43:08.447
Tom: There were two mushrooms floating around in the sky and with some really awkward flying or placing tables in the air, you could pick these mushrooms, each of which was worth a single candle.
01:43:08.847 --> 01:43:16.767
Tom: And there were two underground in the level, which you could get to through getting through a glitched hole in a wall.
01:43:17.347 --> 01:43:24.507
Tom: And when you were there, it featured one of the most difficult things in the game and one of the most fun things to do.
01:43:24.707 --> 01:43:34.487
Tom: Basically, you had a tiny little triangle of water, which you end up in after getting through the wall.
01:43:34.987 --> 01:43:39.067
Tom: And if you're in water, your light immediately starts depleting.
01:43:39.087 --> 01:43:41.527
Tom: Your light is the energy that you use to fly.
01:43:42.047 --> 01:43:49.047
Tom: If you go outside of that triangle, you fall off the map down and you end up back in the level where you're meant to be.
01:43:49.387 --> 01:43:54.687
Tom: There are two candles in the air, some distance away from the triangle.
01:43:55.307 --> 01:44:07.347
Tom: And like some areas in the game, when you're flying here, you can only fly in the fast way of flying, where you're basically flying like an aeroplane rather than a helicopter.
01:44:07.367 --> 01:44:10.107
Tom: Those are basically the two different ways the flying works.
01:44:12.987 --> 01:44:15.567
Tom: When you're flying like that, you can't pick the mushrooms.
01:44:15.867 --> 01:44:26.647
Tom: You have to be stationary, or at least flying vertically up and down to be able to pick them, which is impossible because you're stuck in the aeroplane mode of flying.
01:44:26.667 --> 01:44:58.347
Tom: What you have to do, and it is technically possible by yourself, but virtually impossible, is either build a bridge of tables from the water to the mushroom with one other friend placing tables with you, or many other friends if you want to be faster, or fly through the air, place a table, fly around in the air, try and land on the table, and then build a bridge from closer to it, or attempt to place the bridge right where the mushrooms are.
01:44:58.427 --> 01:45:13.427
Tom: It was by far the most difficult flying required in the game, and the most fun, and it was the best use of other players, and particularly your friends as well.
01:45:13.507 --> 01:45:26.347
Tom: So stuff like that has been great, but it's hard to tell whether it's deliberate or not, given that halfway through the season, they removed the mushrooms in an update.
01:45:26.987 --> 01:45:33.807
Tom: And the update that removed the mushrooms has been a general negative.
01:45:34.047 --> 01:45:37.987
Tom: It's altered the way you do a loud call.
01:45:38.207 --> 01:45:40.127
Tom: It's made it extremely awkward to do.
01:45:40.727 --> 01:45:50.987
Tom: It's meant that when you call, you can't see other players, only they can see you, which has made it feel like much less of a multiplayer game.
01:45:51.007 --> 01:45:55.987
Tom: It also means you don't know if there are many people around who might be able to help you open doors.
01:45:56.427 --> 01:46:07.707
Tom: It's made it more difficult to walk to your friends because the only way, when they're in a level with you, because the only way to do that now is through a deep call first, and deep calling is super awkward.
01:46:09.007 --> 01:46:12.967
Tom: There have been server issues with separating you from players as well.
01:46:13.867 --> 01:46:30.547
Tom: So, over the length of the game, as you would expect in an MMORPG, there have been ups and downs, but still, I would say that it definitely lives up to its place as the fifth best game of the decade.
01:46:31.767 --> 01:46:33.947
Phil: Yeah, it was released in July of last year.
01:46:33.967 --> 01:46:38.507
Phil: It's now available on Android, and it is cross-playable across those platforms.
01:46:38.527 --> 01:46:40.787
Tom: Yep, I know many Android players on it.
01:46:40.807 --> 01:46:42.787
Phil: Yep, and it's going to be coming...
01:46:43.027 --> 01:46:54.007
Phil: Things have been disrupted, obviously, but it was supposed to be coming to Switch and PlayStation 4 in the summer in the Northern Hemisphere, so hopefully that will still happen, and I'll pick it up on the Switch at that point.
01:46:55.887 --> 01:47:05.587
Phil: Yeah, because certainly it's got a lot of good things going for it, including it was written by Jenny Kong, which I think was one of the playable characters in Donkey Kong Country 3.
01:47:06.747 --> 01:47:26.967
Tom: And I should also add another good thing they've done is they've had double heart events, where when you trade with people, you get two hearts, and extra candle events as well, which really make the grinding nature of the game less of a pain at times.
01:47:26.987 --> 01:47:30.667
Tom: So they're always something to look forward to.
01:47:30.687 --> 01:47:46.907
Tom: And they've also had spirits from former seasons return, so if you didn't get the seasonal pass, or you were unable to get that spirit and their items in that season, you still have a chance of getting them in the future.
01:47:47.047 --> 01:47:55.727
Tom: They are tremendously expensive, so the purpose is obviously to get people to buy candles, but it's still a nice gesture to have.
01:47:55.747 --> 01:48:07.227
Tom: And once you have got everything, it also gives you something to look forward to and a reason to continue playing and getting normal candles rather than just the season related stuff.
01:48:07.247 --> 01:48:09.787
Phil: Okay, well is that it for Sky for now?
01:48:09.927 --> 01:48:39.487
Tom: The last thing I have to bring up is, and I wonder if this extends to mobile games in general, and there is evidence to suggest it would, is once you get to know people in the game, you realise that this is the reverse of PC gaming, where in PC gaming and console gaming, I should add, the assumption is that everyone is a man or boy and anyone claiming otherwise is fake.
01:48:40.327 --> 01:48:48.667
Tom: And if they are, even if they are a real girl, it's a momentous, shocking event that is just incomprehensible.
01:48:49.527 --> 01:49:03.767
Tom: The vast, vast majority of the people that I know on Sky are all female, and many of them are shocked and disbelieving at my claims to be male sometimes.
01:49:03.787 --> 01:49:09.727
Tom: So this gender-based reaction is not limited to males.
01:49:10.087 --> 01:49:28.127
Tom: But the fascinating thing is that not only are many of these people on the game females, many, many of them also play on their mobile phones games like Call of Duty and Poo, or some people call it PUBG.
01:49:29.527 --> 01:49:41.387
Tom: So I wonder if the main reason for the gender disparity in console and PC gaming might not be so much the content as the platform itself.
01:49:41.807 --> 01:49:46.267
Phil: Yeah, it's the platform itself and you see that with the Kindle e-reader as well.
01:49:47.187 --> 01:49:59.367
Phil: The e-reader, the Kindle, because it doesn't have a cover, has enabled women and many people to start reading books that otherwise feel embarrassed to be reading on the bus or the subway or whatever.
01:49:59.907 --> 01:50:09.287
Phil: And I think if you look like you're checking in on Facebook where you can play whatever game you want, you're not going to get judged to be a gamer girl or someone who's playing video games.
01:50:09.767 --> 01:50:10.327
Tom: Exactly.
01:50:10.387 --> 01:50:12.347
Phil: There's a lot of stereotypes around that.
01:50:13.567 --> 01:50:17.267
Phil: With that, are you done with Sky in terms of your impressions?
01:50:17.727 --> 01:50:18.387
Tom: Yes, I am.
01:50:20.347 --> 01:50:32.307
Tom: So if something new comes up, we'll talk about it, but that's the extent, that's the small details that need to be added from playing an online multiplayer game for a long period of time.
01:50:32.667 --> 01:50:34.867
Phil: Yeah, it's great.
01:50:34.887 --> 01:50:43.827
Tom: It has its ups and downs, but it is nevertheless retaining much of the things that makes it great over time.
01:50:44.367 --> 01:50:47.067
Phil: And we'll talk about it when I pick it up on Switch, no doubt.
01:50:47.267 --> 01:50:50.107
Phil: And if it has cross-play, maybe you can help me out.
01:50:50.527 --> 01:50:51.167
Tom: Well, it should.
01:50:51.607 --> 01:50:53.147
Tom: It's full of Android players now.
01:50:53.767 --> 01:50:54.687
Phil: Yeah, that's great.
01:50:54.767 --> 01:51:08.987
Phil: So I don't want to rush you, but I did want to remind everyone since the last podcast, episode 1-2-3, I have put up, speaking of SNES games, the lore of Namco's 1993 vehicle combat game Battle Cars.
01:51:09.047 --> 01:51:11.287
Phil: And you've got to check out that box art.
01:51:11.407 --> 01:51:12.107
Phil: It's amazing.
01:51:13.947 --> 01:51:18.107
Phil: You have put a impression of a game called Ghostrunner.
01:51:19.827 --> 01:51:20.687
Tom: Another demo.
01:51:21.367 --> 01:51:21.627
Phil: Yep.
01:51:22.067 --> 01:51:23.107
Phil: And another demo.
01:51:23.127 --> 01:51:23.767
Phil: But that's all right.
01:51:24.527 --> 01:51:27.267
Phil: It's just as good as the first impression of a game.
01:51:27.427 --> 01:51:36.347
Phil: And then I put up episode 1-24, which I left off some obituaries, but basically it's a short 45-minute show which has our obituaries.
01:51:36.367 --> 01:51:39.907
Phil: There's one creepy moment where we're obiturizing...
01:51:42.187 --> 01:51:42.867
Phil: What's his name?
01:51:43.167 --> 01:51:43.927
Phil: The fan number.
01:51:44.427 --> 01:51:47.847
Phil: Again, disrespecting his memory here by forgetting his name.
01:51:47.867 --> 01:51:50.567
Phil: Yamauchi, the CEO.
01:51:50.627 --> 01:51:54.667
Phil: And I said, yeah, he's dead, and one day we'll be doing an obituary of Iwata.
01:51:55.867 --> 01:51:56.707
Tom: One day we were.
01:51:56.987 --> 01:51:57.787
Phil: One day we were.
01:51:58.367 --> 01:51:59.747
Phil: So that's worth a short listen.
01:51:59.767 --> 01:52:03.807
Tom: I should add random acts still holds up.
01:52:05.467 --> 01:52:06.407
Phil: Okay, yep.
01:52:06.647 --> 01:52:11.667
Phil: And then the other thing I was really amazed by and interested in was this art of the rally.
01:52:13.107 --> 01:52:24.547
Phil: Maybe we can talk about that on the next show, but if you can't wait, go to gameunder.net, link on, hit on the top story, art of the rally or art of rally demo that you wrote about.
01:52:26.147 --> 01:52:28.487
Tom: Did we ever talk about Absolute Drift on the show?
01:52:28.507 --> 01:52:29.807
Phil: No, we didn't.
01:52:31.067 --> 01:52:32.647
Tom: That's a strange omission.
01:52:33.367 --> 01:52:39.887
Phil: Yeah, well, we've got enough content for another show already, I think, here, so maybe we'll be back again soon-ish, hopefully.
01:52:41.747 --> 01:52:55.527
Phil: And then I'll also edit on the 15-minute review I gave of Journey from episode 22 to the end of this show as well, so stick around for that if you're interested in listening to a really poor quality audio recording from seven years ago.
01:52:55.547 --> 01:52:58.907
Phil: Even worse content.
01:52:59.067 --> 01:53:00.927
Phil: And to younger hosts.
01:53:01.167 --> 01:53:03.307
Phil: So with that, I thank you for joining me.
01:53:03.427 --> 01:53:04.567
Phil: I am Phil Fogg.
01:53:05.227 --> 01:53:17.107
Tom: I'm Tom Towers, and I should add, we did not stop at episode 70 or whenever we were supposed to and hold out for our fanfunding, I'm sorry to say.
01:53:17.287 --> 01:53:18.347
Tom: That's pretty pathetic.
01:53:18.767 --> 01:53:21.907
Phil: I believe the fanfunding will come soon.
01:53:23.487 --> 01:53:24.267
Tom: Any day now.
01:53:24.667 --> 01:53:25.327
Phil: Any day now.
01:53:25.367 --> 01:53:27.687
Phil: Here's episode 22 where we talk about Journey.
01:53:31.887 --> 01:53:32.727
Tom: That's a shame then.
01:53:32.807 --> 01:53:35.787
Phil: Yeah, it is, but you know, I wasn't really expecting it.
01:53:35.807 --> 01:53:37.407
Phil: I bought this just so I could play Journey.
01:53:37.967 --> 01:53:38.887
Tom: Yeah, true.
01:53:38.907 --> 01:53:41.167
Phil: So I'm going to continue this monologue.
01:53:41.187 --> 01:53:46.247
Phil: People are going to be sick of hearing my voice, but we'll go on with Journey.
01:53:46.327 --> 01:53:48.007
Phil: Now, you have played this game.
01:53:48.027 --> 01:53:49.127
Phil: Have you reviewed it anywhere?
01:53:49.867 --> 01:54:01.727
Tom: I have not reviewed it, but not on this podcast, but on one of the last episodes, or rather most recent, fingers crossed, episodes of the VG Press with Arnie.
01:54:02.187 --> 01:54:04.687
Tom: We did pretty in-depth impressions on it.
01:54:04.907 --> 01:54:10.887
Phil: That's right, in episode 136 of The Press Room, available at thevgpress.com.
01:54:11.447 --> 01:54:20.827
Phil: Now, I edited that show, but I didn't appear on it, and I don't remember your impressions of it, so why don't you give me a break and tell me, recap to our listeners, what you thought of it.
01:54:21.747 --> 01:54:23.427
Tom: Well, here's the thing.
01:54:23.887 --> 01:54:37.907
Tom: Going into it, on the VG Press, there had been this hilarious reaction to the game where basically everyone either thought it was literally the greatest game ever created or the worst game ever created.
01:54:38.447 --> 01:54:45.947
Tom: So going into it, I had huge expectations for it, either to be total and utter shit or completely awesome, right?
01:54:46.347 --> 01:54:54.107
Tom: And generally when there's something that people either love or hate, I'm almost always on the love end of the scale.
01:54:54.627 --> 01:54:55.067
Phil: Really?
01:54:55.087 --> 01:55:03.027
Tom: Here though, when I actually did eventually play it, my reaction was, you could say disappointment, but I would say apathy.
01:55:03.827 --> 01:55:15.007
Tom: It just didn't, nothing in it grabbed me, and the thing that most bothered me about it was, throughout the entire game, it is screaming on the top of its voice that this is not a game.
01:55:15.027 --> 01:55:21.767
Tom: This is something new, innovative, cool and awesome, and you should probably suck our dicks because we're that fucking awesome.
01:55:22.327 --> 01:55:31.747
Tom: Yet at the same time, there was so much gamey shit in there that just completely ate away at all the interesting presentation things that they were doing.
01:55:32.067 --> 01:55:53.007
Tom: Like the stupid fucking invisible walls and the incredibly obnoxious way they tried to cover them up and the really stupid gamey puzzles and things like that just bothered me so much because the presentation, a general tone of the game was saying that we're not doing this stuff, and yet they blatantly are.
01:55:53.307 --> 01:55:55.147
Phil: So now, there's probably plenty of...
01:55:55.487 --> 01:55:59.467
Tom: Which probably sounds much harsher than my actual reaction, but I did enjoy it.
01:55:59.847 --> 01:56:01.727
Phil: You did enjoy the actual gameplay of it.
01:56:02.327 --> 01:56:09.187
Phil: And we have plenty of listeners who probably haven't played this because it was a Sony exclusive and will ever be.
01:56:10.507 --> 01:56:16.547
Phil: And it's made by That Game Company, which was founded by Genova Chen and Kelly Santiago.
01:56:16.567 --> 01:56:19.707
Phil: They went through USC's game development school.
01:56:20.367 --> 01:56:23.167
Phil: And they're a small team based in Los Angeles.
01:56:24.107 --> 01:56:26.767
Phil: And basically, it's a...
01:56:26.947 --> 01:56:33.187
Phil: If you take Flow and Flower, it's an evolution of those two things.
01:56:33.207 --> 01:56:37.347
Phil: So Flow was a 2D game where you went around eating stuff and you grew a long tail.
01:56:37.767 --> 01:56:41.387
Phil: Flower was a 3D game where you fly around growing, you know, getting a tail.
01:56:41.887 --> 01:56:46.107
Phil: In this game, they actually put you on the ground in a humanoid figure.
01:56:46.127 --> 01:56:51.307
Phil: So you're not some microscopic fish thing or you're not some colors of the wind.
01:56:51.687 --> 01:56:55.307
Phil: You're an actual humanoid with legs that you can control.
01:56:55.327 --> 01:56:55.927
Tom: Wait, wait, wait.
01:56:55.947 --> 01:56:56.987
Tom: Towers of the Wind.
01:56:57.027 --> 01:56:59.047
Tom: That's an indie game waiting to happen.
01:56:59.287 --> 01:57:03.387
Phil: I think Disney probably has something to say about that.
01:57:04.187 --> 01:57:06.907
Phil: The good thing is they go back to dual analog stick control.
01:57:07.147 --> 01:57:10.687
Phil: So it's like traditional controls of a humanoid.
01:57:10.787 --> 01:57:18.967
Phil: And basically you start the game and your goal is to walk from one side of this world to another, in effect describing the title Journey.
01:57:19.887 --> 01:57:28.187
Phil: So I would say that the gameplay, basically if Flower is a flight sim, this is a SSX type game.
01:57:28.207 --> 01:57:36.107
Phil: This is a snowboarding game, which is really funny when you consider the highfalutin setting and message behind the game.
01:57:36.887 --> 01:57:40.627
Tom: SSX in reverse, basically, because you're going up the hill instead of down it.
01:57:40.947 --> 01:57:42.547
Phil: Yeah, you're going up and down hills.
01:57:42.567 --> 01:57:45.387
Phil: I mean you walk up the hills and you can surf down them.
01:57:45.627 --> 01:57:48.587
Tom: Yeah, but the general intent is to go up.
01:57:49.187 --> 01:57:49.547
Tom: That's...
01:57:50.607 --> 01:57:51.667
Tom: That's where the game ends.
01:57:51.967 --> 01:57:54.267
Phil: Yeah, I guess so, at the very end.
01:57:54.667 --> 01:57:58.247
Phil: And you will get to the end fairly quickly.
01:57:58.267 --> 01:57:59.667
Phil: It's only a 70-minute game.
01:57:59.707 --> 01:58:03.567
Phil: I thought that the surfing aspect of the game was quite satisfying.
01:58:03.807 --> 01:58:04.227
Phil: Indeed.
01:58:04.307 --> 01:58:05.767
Phil: I think they did a very good job.
01:58:05.787 --> 01:58:07.507
Tom: The sand was awesome.
01:58:07.627 --> 01:58:09.067
Phil: The sand was amazing.
01:58:09.087 --> 01:58:12.567
Phil: They got the physics of the sand down perfectly, I thought.
01:58:12.587 --> 01:58:13.947
Phil: And also the sense of...
01:58:14.127 --> 01:58:31.587
Tom: It's even funnier after watching the documentary, the behind-the-scenes feature on Uncharted 3, where there's this humongous game with like $20 million spent on it and talking for like one hour on how amazing their sand physics is.
01:58:31.787 --> 01:58:37.767
Tom: Then That Game Company comes along with a couple of hundred thousand, maybe a few million and just shits all over them.
01:58:37.767 --> 01:58:39.107
Phil: Yeah, absolutely.
01:58:39.287 --> 01:58:48.067
Phil: And the Santa Monica Studio, the God of War Sony Studio does provide some assistance to That Game Company, we should add.
01:58:48.307 --> 01:58:51.667
Phil: They might be standing on the shoulders of giants for some of this stuff.
01:58:52.427 --> 01:59:00.727
Phil: Certainly the stuff that they do in-house, the actual concept and art and music and the basic programming.
01:59:01.667 --> 01:59:04.867
Phil: But the fit and finish on this game is top shelf.
01:59:05.047 --> 01:59:31.087
Phil: I mean, this is, if you want to look at something that's been well constructed in terms of its presentation, and as I said about the last game, production values, this is really a showpiece that Sony has shined as a signpost of, look at what a video game can be from everything from, you know, the custom fonts and the menu layout to its presentation, which is, you know, dreamlike.
01:59:31.207 --> 01:59:33.447
Phil: It's basically a lucid dream type setting.
01:59:34.747 --> 01:59:53.827
Phil: So I thought that the actual physical gameplay of surfing around was fun, and then also you can walk around and hop on the scarf of your friend, and this is perhaps the most notable thing about the game, is it has a really passive online multiplayer.
01:59:54.227 --> 02:00:00.727
Phil: The only way to really play this game and get the most out of it is to play online multiplayer, and that is basically just a sign on the PSN.
02:00:01.627 --> 02:00:09.247
Phil: During the course of the game, you'll see other people just turn up, and they won't have their PSN IDs floating above their heads.
02:00:09.267 --> 02:00:12.587
Phil: There's nothing to really say that they are a human at all.
02:00:13.327 --> 02:00:17.347
Phil: In fact, when I first interacted with them, I wasn't sure if this was just...
02:00:17.807 --> 02:00:20.867
Phil: I assumed, in fact, that this was just the game AI.
02:00:20.887 --> 02:00:22.327
Phil: These were non-playable characters.
02:00:22.407 --> 02:00:28.647
Phil: But after walking along with one of these for a while, it was very clear that this was some other human being.
02:00:29.627 --> 02:00:33.047
Phil: Because the AI was not AI.
02:00:33.887 --> 02:00:42.927
Phil: And it was actually revealing to see how bad AI is in games, because as soon as you see a human actor that you thought was an NPC, you're like, that's just too...
02:00:43.627 --> 02:00:47.427
Phil: Yeah, you can tell immediately that this is a real human, not a bot.
02:00:48.067 --> 02:00:51.327
Phil: And that was really kind of shocking, because it was so seamless.
02:00:51.547 --> 02:01:05.587
Phil: Because you know, as we've gone on before, whenever we've gone to play online, particularly on PSN, it's usually like a big, long ordeal of Skyping each other, finding the lobbies, invites, the whole thing.
02:01:05.607 --> 02:01:21.467
Phil: And what this small company has been able to do is basically take the archaic infrastructure of PSN and provide this flawless online multiplayer where, even if you don't like playing online, you're going to enjoy this, and it's going to touch you and move you in a way.
02:01:21.947 --> 02:01:23.507
Phil: So I thought that was notable.
02:01:23.747 --> 02:01:24.427
Tom: Indeed, agreed.
02:01:24.447 --> 02:01:29.027
Tom: That was easily the best part of the game, and I had no problems with that whatsoever.
02:01:29.047 --> 02:01:39.347
Tom: Except, I think I said I would have liked, if it was possible, to also specifically play with a friend, but that's not a criticism of what was actually there.
02:01:39.367 --> 02:01:44.247
Phil: One of the things they talked about in the making of, and by the way, this is an excellent collector's edition.
02:01:44.267 --> 02:01:46.187
Phil: We've talked about some duds recently.
02:01:47.127 --> 02:01:49.287
Phil: This is a great collection.
02:01:49.307 --> 02:01:55.387
Phil: They've got the full soundtrack, which they make exportable to USB, and the artwork.
02:01:55.547 --> 02:02:00.167
Phil: So there's an option right there where you can just get the soundtrack and the artwork off of the disc.
02:02:01.127 --> 02:02:03.547
Phil: It's got game commentaries from various people.
02:02:03.667 --> 02:02:06.347
Phil: You can pick who you want to listen to, and videos as well.
02:02:07.347 --> 02:02:08.267
Phil: It includes three...
02:02:08.767 --> 02:02:10.607
Phil: I'm reading bullet points, people, can you tell?
02:02:11.067 --> 02:02:14.967
Phil: It's got three additional mini games on there that they made at a game jam.
02:02:15.867 --> 02:02:17.667
Phil: Yeah, making of video.
02:02:18.367 --> 02:02:19.907
Phil: It's all really well done.
02:02:20.347 --> 02:02:36.767
Phil: What they were talking about in that making of video, Kelly Santiago was talking about how when you walk along a trail, and you are out bush walking or whatever, in the city if you walk past someone, you don't say hello to them, right?
02:02:36.787 --> 02:02:43.227
Phil: But if you're walking along a bush trail and you haven't seen someone for 20 minutes and someone else comes along, you know, you're sharing something.
02:02:43.247 --> 02:02:51.227
Phil: And you'll say hello to them or smile or some small comment, because there's something that you're both sharing that no one else is experiencing at that time.
02:02:51.247 --> 02:03:13.787
Phil: So I think that the reason why they don't let you pick who you go along with is because the very fact that you're sharing this secret or this journey with a stranger somehow makes it much more intimate and touching, as opposed to doing it with your buddies, where you could be goofing off all the time or talking over Skype with each other, saying, oh, well, isn't this shitty?
02:03:13.927 --> 02:03:16.307
Phil: Or, you know, this sort of stuff.
02:03:16.907 --> 02:03:19.307
Tom: But here's an idea for you to consider.
02:03:20.067 --> 02:03:23.047
Tom: What if you could unlock the ability to play with someone you know?
02:03:23.547 --> 02:03:28.207
Phil: I was just about to say, yeah, after you've beaten the game once, it would be great if that wasn't unlockable.
02:03:29.807 --> 02:03:43.967
Phil: I think the other reason, perhaps the real reason, is obviously this would then create a higher level of, perhaps, programming and development time and all the rest of it.
02:03:43.987 --> 02:03:53.807
Tom: Another thing to consider would also be, would mean that you will get less people for the normal multiplayer, because you will get more people who's playing through it a second or third time.
02:03:55.107 --> 02:03:56.047
Phil: And it's really cool.
02:03:56.067 --> 02:04:02.867
Phil: Like I said, there's no PSN IDs until after the credits roll, and then they show you who you went along with this journey with.
02:04:04.907 --> 02:04:06.367
Phil: And I thought that's notable.
02:04:06.687 --> 02:04:11.647
Phil: I thought what was groundbreaking was the communication that you have with this other person.
02:04:12.587 --> 02:04:14.627
Phil: You can only make this peeping noise.
02:04:15.107 --> 02:04:16.427
Phil: It's like a beep, basically.
02:04:16.447 --> 02:04:19.467
Phil: It's a single tone to let the player know something.
02:04:19.547 --> 02:04:22.567
Phil: So, you know, you can...
02:04:22.787 --> 02:04:27.967
Phil: And just how amazing it was to be able to communicate all these very different things with just this one beep.
02:04:28.907 --> 02:04:42.187
Phil: So, you know, if something dramatic just happened and you just evaded a boss, then you'll sound like a couple of birds chattering away because you'll be all beep, and then the other person will be all beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
02:04:43.147 --> 02:04:49.587
Phil: And I found that to be wonderful, and it was somewhat amazing to me that you could communicate so much.
02:04:49.607 --> 02:04:52.527
Phil: So, you might say thank you, and they might say you're welcome.
02:04:52.847 --> 02:04:58.707
Phil: And you're just using this one beep, but you know what they're saying and they know what you're saying somehow.
02:04:59.727 --> 02:05:13.667
Phil: And it really made me felt like now when I listen to birds, you know, how much challenging or how much joy can come from that, because they're communicating all these things just with a few simple tones and not having a real vocabulary.
02:05:13.847 --> 02:05:16.687
Tom: Well, that depends on the bird species, of course.
02:05:17.407 --> 02:05:18.387
Phil: Yeah, it does.
02:05:19.087 --> 02:05:22.547
Phil: But, you know, I'm just thinking like, I thought that was a really great thing.
02:05:24.187 --> 02:05:33.867
Phil: And for a game to bring me a couple of very new and different experiences was, you know, obviously very notable for me.
02:05:33.887 --> 02:05:34.127
Phil: Yep.
02:05:35.147 --> 02:05:36.287
Tom: I can see where this is going.
02:05:36.947 --> 02:05:39.087
Phil: Yeah, I think it was brilliantly done.
02:05:39.187 --> 02:05:41.367
Phil: I think this is the thing.
02:05:42.427 --> 02:05:45.427
Phil: I was amazed to find out that this was a Western company that made this game.
02:05:46.107 --> 02:05:47.647
Phil: And as a result, yeah.
02:05:48.407 --> 02:05:49.707
Tom: Seems very Western to me.
02:05:49.967 --> 02:05:53.167
Phil: To me, it seems very Japanese.
02:05:53.847 --> 02:05:54.307
Tom: How come?
02:05:54.467 --> 02:05:59.327
Phil: Because you might remember a time when Japanese games were weird and quirky and innovative.
02:06:01.427 --> 02:06:06.847
Phil: And Western games were by the book, sports games, shooters, that sort of thing.
02:06:06.867 --> 02:06:11.107
Tom: Okay, so as opposed to there being some sort of cultural thread that you picked up upon.
02:06:12.147 --> 02:06:12.807
Phil: Exactly.
02:06:12.907 --> 02:06:13.327
Tom: Gotcha.
02:06:13.347 --> 02:06:14.007
Phil: Exactly.
02:06:14.167 --> 02:06:21.687
Phil: Even though Jenova Chen does speaking in English as a second language, which is why he says he doesn't include speaking in his games, because he has nothing to say in English.
02:06:21.767 --> 02:06:22.027
Tom: Yep.
02:06:22.487 --> 02:06:29.907
Phil: And he wants his games to be, you know, even though he's an American, he wants his games to be, you know, to speak to his audience.
02:06:30.187 --> 02:06:34.367
Phil: So he keeps it without language, which he notes also makes it easy to localize.
02:06:34.407 --> 02:06:34.647
Phil: Yep.
02:06:35.207 --> 02:06:54.907
Phil: So I think it is funny that, you know, Japanese games used to be the quirky, funky, innovative games, and the Western games used to be the boring ones, but now it's the Westerners who are doing all the quirky, ridiculous games, and the Japanese are making Lost Planet 3 and other games to appeal to Western sensibilities.
02:06:54.967 --> 02:06:55.907
Tom: Resident Evil 6.
02:06:56.647 --> 02:06:56.967
Phil: Yep.
02:06:57.527 --> 02:06:58.347
Phil: Perfect point.
02:06:58.567 --> 02:06:59.487
Phil: So, I don't know.
02:07:00.867 --> 02:07:02.627
Phil: I would probably give it a 10.
02:07:02.647 --> 02:07:11.627
Phil: I could be convinced to give it a 9, but my feeling right now is I give it a 10 because it was such an enjoyable experience.
02:07:11.647 --> 02:07:15.147
Phil: I played it from start to finish in one sitting after a very long day.
02:07:16.327 --> 02:07:20.227
Phil: Like I said, it only took me 70 minutes, and it's a game that I will play again.
02:07:20.247 --> 02:07:36.287
Phil: And I thought it was basically getting all of those points for production value, innovation, originality, and then the passive online mode and groundbreaking communication mode.
02:07:37.667 --> 02:07:38.567
Phil: I thought it was brilliant.
02:07:38.987 --> 02:07:42.787
Phil: You know, we really should have probably had Rob Lozak on this episode.
02:07:42.827 --> 02:07:50.247
Phil: He's on a couple of shows ago with our special Nintendo correspondent because I know he has the exact opposite view of these two games as I.
02:07:50.267 --> 02:07:52.247
Tom: I believe the score is a zero out of ten.
Phil: For Journey?
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: And he said Flower was a, quote, real game, and it is a real game.
Phil: I will give it that, but it's not much fun.
Tom: Well, it does sound like the main reason for that is the controls.
Phil: Oh, absolutely.
Tom: Yeah.
Phil: I was actually shocked that there was no way to, like, select dual analog for that.
02:08:15.907 --> 02:08:17.987
Phil: But he's not alone in his praise for that game.
Phil: Flower received Best Independent Game Fueled by Do in the 2009 Spike Video Game Award.
Tom: That is, as in Mountain Dew?
Phil: Yes.
Tom: And what does that even mean?
Phil: It means that Mountain Dew paid the Spike Video Game Award to say that this was the best independent game fueled by Dew.
Tom: How exactly was it fueled by Mountain Dew?
02:08:43.527 --> 02:08:47.427
Phil: Well, the best independent game part was fueled by Dew, the actual award.
02:08:48.707 --> 02:08:53.667
Tom: I was hoping this was made under some sort of Mountain Dew binge, something like that.
02:08:54.067 --> 02:08:56.547
Phil: No, I don't think they have stringent testing standards for that.
02:08:56.567 --> 02:08:59.647
Phil: They just apply that award willy-nilly.
02:08:59.647 --> 02:09:00.467
Phil: Okay.
02:09:00.507 --> 02:09:01.487
Phil: They don't go into it.
02:09:01.507 --> 02:09:02.687
Tom: That should be a game jam.
02:09:02.747 --> 02:09:06.747
Tom: You go to the game jam and the only thing you're allowed to subsist on is Mountain Dew.
02:09:07.367 --> 02:09:10.767
Phil: I think that's pretty much the case in these game jams anyway.
02:09:11.167 --> 02:09:13.147
Tom: They probably have Doritos as well though now.
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
Phil: Now, I didn't tell you what happened at the video game store.
Tom: No, you didn't.
Tom: But before we move on from Journey, because this game is both finished, and we've been getting out of the habit of doing this, but we need to get back to our proper, genuine official scores, which means I've got to give it a score as well.
Phil: But you've already given it a score, haven't you?
Tom: Yeah, but not on this podcast.
02:09:34.427 --> 02:09:36.967
Phil: Okay, all right, so I'm going to give it a 10.
02:09:36.987 --> 02:09:38.107
Tom: Yep, you've given it a 10.
02:09:38.127 --> 02:09:40.167
Tom: I give it a 6 out of 10.
02:09:40.367 --> 02:09:43.847
Tom: And I don't really disagree with much of what you said.
02:09:43.867 --> 02:09:50.707
Tom: The things that you enjoyed about the game the most, I fully embrace as well, and that's why it doesn't get a 5 out of 10.
02:09:50.727 --> 02:09:55.187
Tom: So that gives us an average of 16 out of 20, I believe.
02:09:56.307 --> 02:09:59.467
Tom: So that's our official Game Under score for Journey.
02:09:59.707 --> 02:10:00.387
Phil: Yeah, right on.
02:10:00.647 --> 02:10:02.447
Phil: Someone should be keeping track of all of these.
02:10:02.547 --> 02:10:03.767
Tom: Yeah, well, yeah.
02:10:03.787 --> 02:10:07.607
Tom: We should have a long compendium of scores on the website.
02:10:08.147 --> 02:10:12.367
Phil: And then we can get out awards and then notify the developers that they've been given.
02:10:12.567 --> 02:10:13.047
Tom: Exactly.
02:10:13.067 --> 02:10:14.407
Phil: 16.5 out of 20.
02:10:15.327 --> 02:10:16.107
Phil: It's a good system.
02:10:16.727 --> 02:10:17.307
Tom: Absolutely.