Game Under Podcast 143

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Show Timeline

0:00:04 Introduction

0:00:44 Max Payne 1 and 2 Remake

0:05:46 Tomb Raider Writer Reveals...

0:10:11 Tom Reviews COVID

0:24:20 Podcast Addict - Chapter Marks

0:26:37 Fever Talk

0:27:22 Tom Reviews Table Top Game Chocolate Monopoly

0:36:26 Phil Reviews Wall Street Kid for NES

0:50:13 Phil Reviews Detention

1:02:06 Phil Reviews Paw Patrol Games

1:08:20 Why You Should Play Kid Games

1:12:55 Sky (The Game from That Game Company)

1:29:17 Gran Turismo 7

1:44:28 Outro

Transcript
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast, recorded this Easter Monday on the th of April,

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I am joined, as ever, by the man known as the Easter Bunny of Queensland, Phil Fogg.

Phil: That is it.

Phil: And of course, everyone would know that this is actually episode because we posted episode

Phil: It was a shorty for Easter.

Tom: Well, you should know that my part of the show is scripted, so if you write in the notes, that's what I will mention.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, I'm pretty sure if it was written, it would have been a lot better than that.

Phil: But did you have a listen to episode our GTA bonus episode?

Tom: I probably did when we recorded it.

Phil: Yes, it was actually a segment from episode

Phil: It was actually a pre-intro.

Phil: So it was like minutes before we even got to the intro of episode when we recorded it.

Phil: But it was still interesting, coming up with the next Grand Theft Auto announcement pending.

Phil: I thought it was a good time to put that show up there since we didn't get an opportunity to record.

Tom: Was this the one with the rock texture impressions?

Phil: No, no, no, no.

Phil: This is basically going through every single Grand Theft Auto game up until the release of GTA V.

Phil: And you and I, and I think we should do this again, basically did our live impressions of watching the trailer.

Tom: I remember that.

Phil: Yeah, it was hilarious.

Tom: Unfortunately, we will never have the opportunity to do that again because there is never going to be another Grand Theft Auto game.

Phil: Well, they've said that one is, they're working on one.

Phil: So what that means, who knows?

Phil: So we will see.

Phil: I mean, at least we...

Tom: I think it will be a patch for Grand Theft Auto

Phil: Five?

Phil: One trailer we will perhaps be able to record our live impressions of is Max Payne.

Phil: It's a game that we've talked about and I think reviewed on the site.

Phil: Well, certainly we've reviewed Max Payne but which we can get into.

Tom: I believe we've reviewed all of them.

Tom: I think that was part of a trilogy.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Sounds right.

Phil: So Max Payne has been a part of this site for a long time.

Phil: Remedy, other people behind it.

Phil: And they did Alan Wake, they did Control, which I'm still downloading the patch to.

Phil: I actually got a warning from my ISP about it.

Phil: They didn't name Control specifically, but they said, you know, you've used up gig of your gig and you've got another days.

Phil: We're just saying, you know.

Phil: I might have to...

Tom: I think it might be due to the content of Control rather than the quantity of gigabytes.

Phil: Oh, no, well, they didn't mention Control specifically.

Tom: They didn't for plausible deniability.

Tom: But I think the subtext is you shouldn't be downloading potentially subversive media like that.

Phil: Is it subversive?

Phil: Have you played it?

Tom: Well, I assume it's probably positioning itself as being subversive when you are in an intelligence agency.

Tom: But like most such media than that, will probably end up being actually very much in support of the status quo.

Tom: But that's probably too much for an Australian ISP.

Phil: Did you just drop the term subsmurfive?

Tom: I think I said submersive.

Phil: OK, well, the show title is going to be subsmurfive anyway.

Phil: Remedy has announced that they're going to be doing full remakes of Max Payne and and putting them together into a single game.

Phil: And somehow they've managed to convince Rockstar, who owns the IP, I mean Remedy sold them the IP, and then they've come crying back to Rockstar, I imagine, saying, oh please, let us make our game again.

Phil: And guess what?

Phil: Rockstar said, not only are we going to let you make your game, we're going to publish it.

Phil: So Rockstar is, I mean, that's pretty cool, you know.

Phil: I mean, because Max Payne I don't think worked out very well for Rockstar.

Phil: So obviously, perhaps they have no interest in going back to it.

Phil: I just thought it was a pretty cool move on Rockstar's part to give up an IP that they own back to the originators to do what they want to do with.

Tom: Definitely.

Phil: Now what does it say about Remedy that they're going back to the well after having made Alan Wake and Control?

Tom: I think they're probably doing all right.

Tom: I think Control was somewhat successful, wasn't it?

Phil: Oh yeah, critically, certainly.

Tom: I think it's sold really well too.

Tom: So I think given they have made a new IP, they can probably return to an old one at this point.

Tom: If they went straight from Alan Wake to this, I think it would be saying, you would then be raising questions about their creativity.

Tom: But given that they did have control in between, I think it's alright.

Phil: I really want to go back and play Max Payne again.

Phil: All this talk about it has just made me relish.

Phil: And I really, we had a lot of fun with it.

Phil: I know that when we did an oral review for it.

Phil: But I'd love to go back to Max Payne right now and just sort of see if it's as good as I remember.

Phil: I think I played that on PlayStation

Tom: I think I had probably more fun discussing it than playing it from what I can remember.

Phil: Certainly the case.

Phil: I do remember a good scene on a football field though, a football pitch.

Tom: I think that featured some necklacing, didn't it?

Phil: Yes, the stadium level, yes, yeah.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, you know, this stuff goes around and around and around.

Phil: I mean Tomb Raider has been, a new game is going to come out for Tomb Raider.

Phil: And I wanted to learn more about it.

Phil: And so went on the Internet and I saw an article that was titled Tomb Raider writer reveals what she wants from new game.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: So I'm like, hey, so who actually is writing it?

Phil: You know, Tomb Raider writer reveals what she wants from the new game.

Tom: I think it's Terry Pratchett's daughter, isn't it?

Phil: I don't know who Terry Pratchett is, but Rihanna Pratchett is.

Tom: That would be his daughter then.

Phil: Who is Terry Pratchett?

Phil: Is he a British Prime Minister?

Tom: I think he was an English author of fantasy comedy novels, among other things.

Phil: Oh, like a Douglas Adams type thing?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Okay, all right.

Phil: Well, I won't hold that against him, I guess.

Tom: But certainly not as bad as Douglas Adams.

Tom: I actually read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy recently.

Tom: Which among gaming forums, is held up as one of the greatest novels of the th century, I would say.

Tom: And let's just say, it's probably one of the most disappointing novels I have read in my life.

Phil: Oh, come on.

Phil: I mean, I completely agree with you, but you've read a lot of novels.

Phil: You know what it is?

Phil: When I was going to school, we had a thing called Scholastic, where you could buy these books, you know.

Phil: The BBC has actually been really good about making these tangential pieces that go along with their TV shows.

Phil: So, for example, When the Young Ones was a big show, they'd have The Young Ones sort of a jokey kind of book that you get, you know, a kid's guide to The Young Ones or something.

Phil: You know, BBC has always been really good about putting out these adjuncts to their major media properties.

Phil: And Douglas Adams' book seemed to me to be like a jokey kind of, oh, this Monty Python scene was so funny, we've written a whole book about it.

Phil: It never seemed to me like it was properly written.

Phil: It seemed to be a commercial enterprise to cash in on something that was much funnier, but perhaps you shouldn't have written a whole novel about it.

Tom: I think that is a very accurate description of it.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So anyway, his daughter, Rihanna Pratchett.

Phil: Are you sure Terry Pratchett's not the manager of Manchester United?

Phil: It could just be Pratchett.

Phil: It sounds so British.

Phil: In any case, I read through this whole story.

Phil: I get to the final paragraph, right, after she goes on and on about, oh, Lara, you know, he's a strong woman, you know.

Phil: Oh, I want to see her strike out on her own and take joy.

Phil: You get to the final paragraph.

Phil: Pratchett has confirmed that she isn't working on this entry, but is excited to see what Crystal Dynamics comes up with.

Tom: Well, that's why we're hearing what she wants for it, not what she's doing.

Phil: It's bullcrap.

Phil: Tomb Raider writer reveals what she wants from New Game.

Phil: This is bullcrap.

Phil: comicbook.com, if that's your real URL.

Phil: And it is.

Phil: Anyway.

Phil: So anyway...

Tom: What's wrong with that headline?

Tom: She wrote Tomb Raider.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: And she's revealing what she wants for the New Game.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: I don't see the problem.

Phil: But they go through...

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: You're just trolling me now.

Phil: In any case, I thought that was bullcrap.

Phil: Especially when, like, there's so few video game news, actual writing going on, I should not have fallen for it.

Phil: I'm amazed that Square is going back to Tomb Raider.

Phil: And I'm glad that Crystal Dynamics is actually working on it because their Avengers game hasn't been a huge success.

Phil: They actually didn't have anything to do with the third Tomb Raider remake.

Phil: Did you know that?

Phil: Not the remake, but the reboot.

Tom: Crystal Dynamics, correct.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Tom: I think that's one of the reasons it was good.

Phil: Oh, you liked the third one.

Tom: The third one?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I thought they didn't have anything to do with any of them.

Phil: No, no, they did the first two.

Phil: They did the first two.

Tom: I think I've only played the first one.

Phil: Tomb Raider

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Which was good, and the second one was okay, not great.

Phil: And the third one was not as...

Phil: anyway.

Phil: Is there anything you want to talk about in this unofficial trademark banner that's really actually covering news section?

Tom: Well, I think we should mention the reason that we did not record last week was due to a medical emergency.

Phil: Yes, I had hay fever.

Tom: In addition to that, while you were out with the hay fever, a particularly nasty case, as we just heard, I managed to finally catch coronavirus after, I think, is it three years now?

Phil: You went around snogging homeless guys for like three years trying to get coronavirus, and then you finally get it when it's not cool to get it anymore.

Tom: Correct.

Tom: And I was all into it.

Tom: I had three vaccine doses, which I think are pretty much equivalent to pre-order bonuses when it comes to coronavirus.

Tom: And it still took that long.

Phil: Did you get the steel box?

Tom: No, I didn't, but I did get several rapid antigen tests.

Tom: Which I think are worth a lot more money than steel box pre-order packages.

Tom: I did better there, I think.

Phil: Okay, so what do you think of Covid?

Phil: I mean, the story obviously was meandering.

Phil: In terms of its guttural impact on you, the visceral impact, if you will, to use a game review cliche, how did it go?

Phil: I mean, I'm not going to ask you to score it.

Tom: Well, I think we will have to whip out the die of destiny when we get to the end of the impressions, though.

Phil: How did it start?

Phil: First of all, is it first person, third person?

Tom: It's first person, but it then very quickly becomes second person, then third person, and so on and so forth.

Phil: Well, yes, because it spreads so quickly.

Tom: Yes, exactly.

Tom: But you have to take into account, I think, the number of vaccine doses and the third one was a few months ago.

Tom: So I think on average, if you were fully vaccinated, it's meant to reduce the severity of it about tenfold to the level of a flu, which I believe you have had a case of actual flu in the past.

Phil: Yes, I have.

Phil: My realtor gave it to me as a thanks for buying the house gift.

Phil: She came over and she said, I know I shouldn't be coming over.

Phil: I just bought these flowers for you, but you know, I've got the flu, but I just want to thank you.

Phil: And I was like, yeah, okay.

Phil: Because, you know, growing up in Australia, people say the flu, they mean a cold, right?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Oh, I've got the flu.

Phil: But it's like no, influenza is serious.

Phil: It's a very serious illness.

Phil: And basically, yeah, it transformed my world for about three days.

Phil: And at first, I was so sick that I couldn't go to work.

Phil: And anyone who knows me knows that being sick is not an excuse for not going to work.

Phil: I work.

Phil: It's what I do.

Phil: My life is defined by it.

Phil: And I was like, oh, wow, this is cool.

Phil: I am so sick.

Phil: I actually can't work.

Phil: I'll go downstairs and play video games.

Phil: But then I was so sick, I couldn't walk downstairs and play video games.

Phil: I was like, no, I'm not at work, so I must play video games.

Phil: And basically, I somehow managed to go downstairs and started having hallucinations.

Phil: Yeah, not a good scene.

Tom: Were they better or worse than games, these hallucinations?

Phil: Oh, they were terrifying.

Phil: And from people who I've talked to who have had bad trips, you know, the paranoia trips type thing, it was kind of like that.

Phil: But wait, we were talking about you, man, Covid.

Tom: Yes, well, we're getting a gauge of how bad or not so bad it might be, given that vaccines are meant to reduce it to a similar level of severity to the flu.

Tom: And we do have to add that the flu, as you said in Australia, when we say the flu, we generally mean a cold that is worse than average, but is probably still a cold.

Tom: But the flu, like a cold or like coronavirus, actually comes in a range of severities as well.

Tom: So you can actually have the flu and be completely asymptomatic or have the flu and it be equivalent to a mild cold.

Tom: So as with all sorts of viruses, there is a great range of how it actually ends up affecting you.

Tom: And I think the symptoms began on approximately Wednesday or Thursday.

Tom: And I did a test on Thursday because I had a meeting the next day.

Tom: And rapid tests are apparently not very accurate, as the result was negative.

Tom: But the next day after the symptoms rapidly got worse, essentially immediately after the meeting, I thought I may as well do another test the day after, when they continue getting worse.

Tom: And at that point it was positive, so I did another test as well.

Tom: At this point, the symptoms were probably equivalent to, I would say, a medium level cold, so a reasonable fever and a low level of nausea.

Tom: By the next day, the fever was significantly worse and the nausea was probably a little bit more severe, but I was also extremely dizzy if I was standing up or moving around.

Tom: So at that point it was probably equivalent to, I would say, probably a high level cold, not the most severe colds I've had, which would probably be getting in the realm of a medium to low level case of the flu.

Tom: But nevertheless, the fever and the runniness of my nose, which was so bad I had to lie down during the night with several tissues under my nose.

Tom: The entire time was bad enough that I could not sleep that night, which is at the upper level of what I would say cold symptoms for flus or congestion are.

Tom: At this point, there was no symptoms of coughing or anything like that at all.

Tom: And the next day, the fever immediately improved drastically and gradually improved over the next few days.

Tom: At which point, there were not very many symptoms at all.

Tom: And then the next day, the cough began, which was very mild to begin with and gradually got over the day progressively worse and worse to the point where that night the coughing was bad enough that I was unable to sleep.

Tom: And I've had quite a few different chest infections over my life.

Tom: And that I would probably put at probably a medium level one.

Tom: It wasn't particularly severe, bad enough for one night that I couldn't sleep, but I was still able to take deep breaths.

Tom: My lungs did not feel particularly heavy.

Tom: And it was a lot closer to something like asthma where it's extremely annoying, but unless the attack is really, really bad to the point where your throat is swollen enough that you're in danger of choking, it isn't actually that debilitating other than the actual coughing fits or a longer period of reduced oxygen intake as a result of it.

Tom: Whereas a bad chest infection where you've got a lot of congestion is extremely debilitating because you can't breathe properly at any point and if your lungs are full of phlegm, it makes you extremely weak as well.

Tom: The fever did make me...

Tom: did have a pretty weakening effect, but so far, not the coughing.

Tom: So after one night of pretty annoying coughing, enough that I was unable to sleep, again, improved, and since then, the symptoms have been going up and down, and it has been probably about a week and a half.

Tom: So there were two parts of it that were relatively severe, not even close to the worst sorts of viruses that I've had, but notable enough, certainly above average.

Tom: And two, though, I think the most interesting thing about it has been the way in which the symptoms go up and down and the longevity of it, because for a medium level symptoms, like I've had to the lower level, lower end of high just on those two days, for that, for me to have continued symptoms and for it to be effective now after about a week and a half of symptoms or a bit over a week and a half is pretty out of the ordinary as well and very much unlike most viruses I've had that have that level of severity.

Tom: And the way in which the symptoms have gone up and down is also very much like any other sort of virus I've had as well.

Phil: Well, I think it's courageous that you're recording the podcast while suffering with Covid.

Tom: Well, I actually made sure to record a song on the second day of worst coughing symptoms to take advantage of the voice and coughing because with the group I'm in with Arnie, we recorded a coronavirus themed song previously with some coughing in it that was not genuine coronavirus coughing.

Tom: So we could not pass up the opportunity to do the authentic version as well.

Phil: Well, for whatever reason, I'm thinking of you coughing once and then just putting that into the synth and doing one of those barking dog Christmas carols.

Phil: Arf, arf, arf, arf, arf.

Phil: That's probably way ahead of me in terms of artistic expression in that regard, I'm sure.

Phil: But the inconsistent...

Phil: So what you're telling me, the plot has been kind of inconsistent, it's been up and down, it hasn't been...

Phil: And that's unusual, your reaction to it.

Phil: But just to bring it back to me again, and I'm just only bringing this up because it might help you as well.

Phil: While I was using all those tissue boxes to stuff my nose when I had the hay fever the other day, for whatever stupid reason it occurred to me that a Carolina Reaper hot pepper would distract my body to the extent that it would stop having a hay fever reaction.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: And so I don't have access to a Carolina Reaper, but I do have access to a Carolina Reaper chili sauce.

Phil: And so I had a tablespoon of that, and my body did not have any of the hay fever symptoms for about an hour afterwards that I could discern.

Tom: What were the symptoms your body did have though?

Phil: Profuse sweating, the inability to taste, and the ability to taste colors actually.

Tom: That reminds me actually, the day after the bad fever night, it took me about two hours to eat breakfast.

Tom: And because this is a symptom that I sometimes have from ME, I only realized in hindsight that the only part of the breakfast I was eating that I could taste, which contributed to the difficulty in eating it.

Tom: So I did also lose the majority of my sense of taste at some point as well.

Phil: That doesn't surprise me at all, because it usually takes you two hours to eat your dinner while we record our podcast.

Tom: I'm currently eating.

Phil: Two hours for breakfast, that's nothing.

Phil: Now I'm coughing.

Phil: Okay, so you're going to give this coronavirus a score?

Tom: Well, the one thing I will add is overall it's probably a medium level sort of thing.

Tom: So not too bad.

Tom: But that's with the vaccine.

Tom: I would say if the vaccine is as effective as advertised, I would certainly want to avoid it, to say the least.

Tom: But we will give it a score based on the post-vaccine experience.

Phil: It's kind of like playing a game, or seeing a movie you've already got the trailer.

Phil: It's going to have a diminished impact on you when you see it, I guess.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: It gets a out of

Tom: So a big flop, I'm afraid to say.

Phil: A massive flop for Coronavirus.

Phil: They needed a better name, honestly.

Phil: Like AIDS.

Tom: HIV has been pretty disappointing since they changed the name to that.

Phil: It has.

Phil: It's far less impactful, unfortunately.

Tom: I would say that is easily a fair score.

Tom: I think we said there were sleepless nights.

Tom: I think the worst virus I had, rather than sleepless nights, had me asleep for about weeks.

Tom: So I think out of if we're going for serious viruses, I think it maybe is too much for coronavirus.

Phil: Well, not to mention that the launch was delayed by years.

Phil: I mean, you were supposed to have gotten it years ago, and you would have thought...

Tom: Maybe that raised my expectations too high.

Phil: Too high, yeah.

Phil: Well, look, before we exit trademark banner and get into games, I did want to mention, if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably already listening on a podcast player.

Phil: I recently upgraded to a podcast player called Podcast Addict, and it is absolutely fantastic.

Phil: It has features, unbelievable list of features that can help you.

Phil: And one of the features that we have is our shows now have chapter marks.

Phil: So if you're using a podcast player, because of our notes, if there's a section that you don't particularly like, you can just press the skip button.

Phil: It'll take you straight to the next chapter.

Phil: And obviously, I don't think any of our listeners are going to use that because everything we talk about is interesting.

Phil: But and it is interesting that I managed to speak about this after our coronavirus impressions.

Phil: But yeah, it's a cool thing.

Phil: So I encourage everyone to go to or look up podcast directory and look at the different players that are there.

Phil: They're all free and they have a lot more features.

Tom: Can you speed up podcasts beyond double speed?

Phil: Yeah, you can even do whatever you want.

Phil: And then even beyond double speed.

Phil: And one of the features of Podcast Attic I like is that there is a skip silence mode.

Phil: So it basically can just carve out the silences and it doesn't noticeably impact the listening quality of a show.

Phil: If you want to keep it at regular speed, but just save some of the pauses, it will do that for you.

Tom: Is this your excuse for no longer editing the show properly?

Phil: I do edit the show properly.

Tom: So you won't need that feature when you're listening to us.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: That's exactly right.

Phil: Okay, so you want to get into some games or should we just end the podcast now?

Tom: Well, we did cover coronavirus.

Tom: So everyone will now be just skipping to the end using this wonderful feature.

Phil: I love fevers.

Phil: I've only had a few fevers in my life and I think fevers are great.

Phil: I don't know what people have a problem with fevers.

Tom: What do you enjoy about fevers?

Phil: The endless sweating, the uncertainty as to whether you're going to die or not.

Phil: It's kind of a thrill.

Phil: It's like, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Phil: No, I'm just really hot.

Phil: You know, I like it.

Phil: It is suspenseful.

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: You've already shared all of your experiences.

Tom: Do you also enjoy saunas?

Phil: I can tell you that I liked jacuzzis.

Phil: And I liked being in there way too long with the temperature way too high.

Phil: Going, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Phil: I also like driving very fast cars.

Phil: Going, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Tom: Do you have the heater on when you're driving them?

Phil: I do, actually.

Phil: I like to put the heater up to the highest level.

Phil: Regardless of the season.

Phil: I also like jumping out of planes.

Phil: Going, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Tom: That sounds like it will be a cold experience, though.

Phil: Okay, so anyway, on to games.

Tom: Let's go for the biggest one first.

Tom: Because I just remembered I played this.

Tom: That is Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: I thought you were going to go to one of my games.

Tom: No.

Tom: They're going for Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: Is this your rant about Cadbury?

Phil: Or Hershey?

Tom: I assume you're familiar with the board game Monopoly.

Phil: I am, yes.

Phil: It's got the dude.

Phil: And he doesn't have a monocle.

Phil: He doesn't have a monocle, does he?

Phil: I think that's the thing that blew my mind.

Phil: Someone one day was like, he doesn't have a monocle.

Tom: I don't think he does.

Phil: Mr.

Phil: Moneybags or Moneypenny or whatever his name is.

Phil: I'm a big fan of that guy.

Tom: He's got a moustache.

Tom: Do people associate a monocle with him?

Phil: Well, I think they're thinking about Mr.

Phil: Peanut.

Phil: For Australians not aware of Mr.

Phil: Peanut, I'd suggest you do an image search now.

Phil: I think they do a mishmash and they basically go, well, any rich like snooty guy has a monocle and a top hat, which the Monopoly guy does have a top hat, right?

Tom: He does and a moustache.

Phil: Yeah, and he's rotund.

Tom: Correct.

Phil: But no cane?

Phil: Does he have a cane?

Tom: Yes, he does.

Tom: Though I think it depends on the depiction of him.

Phil: And he shares that with Mr.

Phil: Peanut.

Phil: Mr.

Phil: Peanut is a peanut with legs, top hat, monocle and a cane.

Tom: Who has the greater net worth?

Phil: Well, Big Peanut.

Phil: I mean, Monopoly dude, he lets you buy the stuff.

Phil: He's not even a proper monopolist.

Phil: You know, he's got all those train stations and such what.

Tom: But not enough to be a monopolist.

Phil: No, but Monopoly is great.

Phil: Everyone loves Monopoly.

Tom: Yes, well, I think I have played Monopoly at some point, but I never, I do not actually have any memory in detail of playing Monopoly.

Tom: And in the chocolate version of Monopoly, the instruction booklet...

Phil: Wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry.

Phil: I'm totally cutting you off.

Phil: I'm sorry.

Phil: This is ridiculous.

Phil: But do you know how Monopoly was made?

Phil: It was an indie game.

Tom: Was it originally an indie game?

Phil: It was an indie game.

Phil: It was one dude during the Depression who basically designed the game using his wife's tablecloth.

Phil: They were poor.

Phil: And he's like, you know, everyone's poor.

Phil: Wouldn't you want to play a game about these really aspirational things?

Phil: It's kind of like the ultimate power fantasy of

Phil: And so he took his wife's tablecloth.

Tom: I thought Hitler was the ultimate power fantasy of

Phil: That's funny.

Phil: And so they had a square like the card table as a kitchen table and they had the tablecloth.

Phil: And he basically drew, you know, all the squares on there and came up with the game and formulated it.

Phil: So it was a one man, auteur, indie game, tabletop experience.

Phil: Probably much like Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

Phil: Another, you know, pinnacle of tabletop gaming.

Phil: And he totally came up with it.

Phil: And the fact that, you know, we're still playing it like a hundred years later here in is incredible.

Phil: And of course now it's just a cheesy cash in where you've got all these stupid versions of Monopoly like Nintendo Monopoly.

Tom: Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: Nigel Farage Monopoly.

Phil: You know, Steam.

Tom: I think that's, is that the new Hitler edition?

Tom: The Nigel Farage Monopoly?

Phil: Steam Monopoly.

Phil: You know.

Phil: So anyway, you're playing this chocolate.

Phil: So is it made of chocolate or is it just about chocolate?

Tom: The money in it is chocolate.

Tom: Well, not the money.

Tom: There's two currencies you have.

Tom: One is money.

Tom: And then you also have chocolate pieces.

Tom: And the person with the most chocolate pieces at the end is the winner, rather than the person with the most money, which I assume is how normal monopoly works.

Phil: Is money not fungible and transferable into chocolate?

Tom: No.

Phil: I mean, it is in real life.

Tom: Is it?

Tom: You can go to the bank and trade, and trading your money for, sorry, trading your chocolate for money?

Phil: No.

Phil: Profoundly, you can go into the grocery store and exchange your money for chocolate.

Tom: Well, that would be the reverse.

Tom: You said is the chocolate not transferable to money?

Phil: It, oh, okay.

Phil: Yep, it's not.

Phil: You're right.

Phil: You can't go into a bank and deposit chocolate.

Phil: Well, you could, but security is probably going to take you out if you started to just deposit chocolate onto their floors.

Tom: In any case, the game has a wheel which you spin, which lands on different types of property and colours.

Tom: There's also a in the corner, an area where you get a certain amount of money each round.

Tom: Now, the instructions do not mention anything about pieces on the board or how you navigate the board.

Tom: It merely mentions how the spinning mechanism works.

Tom: It doesn't mention how the purchasing property mechanic works or how to distribute money or anything like that.

Tom: So essentially, unless you've already played Monopoly, how the game works is not explained whatsoever.

Tom: Additionally, if you have played Monopoly, how the spinning mechanic relates to navigating the board isn't explained.

Tom: So, the people who I was playing the game with, we essentially had to invent the rules ourselves.

Tom: And the result was a serviceable version of Monopoly combining this new spinning mechanic with navigation of the board using in fact the die of destiny.

Tom: And essentially using the chocolate solely as a way of scoring.

Tom: Now, the one issue with the game other than the nonsensical rules was also the chocolate because you would not necessarily want to be winning this chocolate that was contained within chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: Oh no.

Phil: Because it's still all stanky sitting in a store chocolate, right?

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: With I would say maybe % cocoa.

Tom: And probably % sugar.

Tom: So it's mildly sweet, vaguely chocolate textured edible supposedly edible substance.

Phil: Yeah, if you want to play Monopoly, I mean you can pick it up for PlayStation or amazingly.

Phil: I have the PlayStation version.

Phil: And it's actually pretty good.

Phil: I recall playing Monopoly on the fairly regularly.

Phil: And I'm amazed that it's not more...

Phil: I'm sure there's a mobile version.

Phil: But I've always been amazed by when I've gone to play a Monopoly game on a video game console or PC, how not crap it is.

Phil: Because you know, you don't have to line up a whole bunch of other people to play with.

Phil: It goes a lot quickly.

Phil: Because the biggest problem with the tabletop game is the pacing of Monopoly.

Phil: I think it's pretty incredible that you had to come up with your own rules.

Phil: So you managed to assemble a group of people that had never played Monopoly before and didn't know the rules.

Phil: You roll the die, you advance, you buy properties.

Phil: There's community chance or something, community chest, and then there's chance cards.

Phil: You go to jail.

Phil: You do not pass go.

Phil: You pass go, you collect $

Tom: And the jail mechanic.

Tom: Which I think is wholly unrealistic for a game in which you are playing a monopolist.

Phil: That you would actually go to jail, yes.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Phil: So do we have to roll the die of Destiny?

Tom: I think we do have to roll the die of Destiny.

Phil: Now, is this a branded?

Phil: Obviously with the crap chocolate that's in there.

Phil: This isn't branded.

Phil: This isn't Hershey.

Tom: This is branded.

Tom: This is branded.

Phil: But who's the chocolate brand associated with it?

Tom: Oh, I don't know what the chocolate brand was.

Phil: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Tom: It was Monopoly branded.

Tom: Right.

Tom: I don't think the chocolate company that was involved put their name to it.

Phil: No, I wouldn't think so.

Phil: It's just for people who are sickly addicted to chocolate.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: How did you come across this game, Tom?

Tom: A friend of my sister gave it to her.

Tom: So I am blameless.

Phil: Very good.

Tom: It gets a out of

Tom: So even worse than coronavirus.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Phil: I just wrote down that score and I saw the notes, Carolina Reapers.

Phil: Doesn't the Carolina Reapers sound like a college basketball team?

Tom: Yes, it does.

Phil: They have a kick-ass logo too, you know, the Reaper of Death, Death Reaper with the scythe.

Phil: Alright, well into games.

Phil: I mean, other than our tabletop games.

Phil: We need to get into real games.

Tom: I think you have been playing a similar money-making fantasy game.

Phil: It is a fantastic game.

Phil: Now, we were talking about emulation last week in episode

Phil: And Tom, you suggested that I could actually download games that I don't own so that basically emulation isn't just for legal backups of games that you own, but that you could also go and download a game that you don't own and play it on an emulator.

Phil: And I had to check this out just for our historical accuracy.

Tom: Research purposes.

Phil: Yeah, research purposes and for the show.

Phil: And actually, I was surprised.

Phil: There was not a lot of barriers of entry to me downloading a game that I didn't own.

Phil: So we are famous here for reviewing work simulators or job simulators.

Phil: And that's why you said, hey, go download Wall Street Kid, which I did.

Phil: It was released for the Nintendo Entertainment System in

Phil: And it was published by Sofel.

Phil: I don't know if they made it, but they released it in the US.

Phil: Sofel.

Phil: It was released in Japan as The Money Game which was a sequel.

Phil: Do you wish to guess what The Money Game was a sequel to?

Tom: Was it a sequel to The Money Game?

Phil: Oh, correct.

Phil: So you've heard of Kabachu Chou no Kinseki.

Phil: So this game is incredible.

Phil: So basically the premise is a lawyer comes up to you and says that you have inherited, you know, $billion, which is great because it's like, no, that's still a lot of money.

Phil: It's still only a quarter of what Elon Musk wants to buy Twitter for, but still $billion is a lot of money.

Phil: It's not like...

Tom: Probably also about a quarter of what he inherited as well.

Phil: Well, yeah, that's the thing.

Phil: The catch is they will give you $

Phil: You have to turn it into $million in a certain period of time in order to inherit the whole swag.

Phil: So your dead rich uncle is making you earn it by giving you half a million dollars that you've got to turn into a million dollars.

Phil: Now, the first thing that would occur to me to do would be to go to Vegas and put it on Red.

Phil: But he doesn't.

Tom: I was wondering if you'd mention that because Softball also developed Casino Kid.

Phil: Okay, so they might have a whole range of kid related shows.

Tom: It appears that they might, or games rather.

Phil: The best part about this is that when he gets to the premise, like he sets it up, the dude says, Oh, by the way, have a great April Fool's Day.

Phil: But remember, everything I just told you is no April Fool's joke.

Phil: Good luck.

Phil: I mean, that is fantastic.

Phil: That is completely superfluous and unnecessary writing.

Phil: And the whole time I'm playing it, I'm going, so am I going to, am I going to get to the end of this?

Phil: And then you're like, fuck you.

Phil: This is an April Fool's joke.

Phil: It's brilliant.

Phil: It's just brilliant writing.

Phil: Oh, one last thing, by the way.

Tom: Maybe that's the bad ending.

Phil: Or the true ending, because at the same time this film, this game was coming out, there was that film, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, about two rich Wall Street guys betting on, you know, effing up two people's lives, you know.

Phil: And yeah, it was great.

Phil: So now to get to the grist of the game, you then thrust into a setting that would be familiar to anyone who has played what was my game of the year several years ago, Papers, Please, by Lucas Pope.

Phil: Basically, you've got a desk, and on that desk is a limited number of things that you can click on.

Phil: So they have a Apple II computer.

Phil: They have a thing that I don't really know what it is, but maybe it's a telephone or something because it's your outside link to the rest of the world.

Phil: And there's a newspaper and there's a clock.

Phil: If you click on the clock, you can advance to the next day, much like you could in Papers, Please.

Phil: So if you're satisfied.

Phil: What was that other game that we played about the Hotel Dude?

Phil: It was a work simulator.

Tom: The Hotel Dude?

Phil: Yeah, you were working as a Hotel Dude.

Phil: Anyway, you'll figure that out.

Phil: We played lots of it.

Phil: In any case, you can advance the game to the next day.

Phil: And so you sit down, you've got a day and you've got a certain number of days before you can...

Phil: a certain number of days before you have to get up to a million dollars.

Phil: So you read the newspaper, just like you could in papers, please, and that would tell you what was going on in the outside world.

Tom: I'm just going to interrupt you there.

Tom: Is that hotel in the public house sense of Australia?

Phil: No, no, no, motel.

Tom: By which you mean bars.

Phil: No, motel, motel.

Phil: We talked about it quite a bit.

Tom: What were you pondering then?

Phil: It was a D artwork.

Phil: You were dead.

Phil: You were like owning a motel type thing.

Tom: That's the death and taxes game.

Phil: Yeah, that's it.

Tom: I don't think you were owning it.

Tom: You were living in it.

Phil: You were living in it, but you had a desk and you could click on it.

Tom: But I don't think you were running the hotel.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: Well, you were.

Phil: You were working there.

Tom: No, you were living there.

Tom: You were running the deaths in the world.

Phil: Oh, that's right.

Phil: Well, obviously, it was a very memorable game.

Phil: So back to this one.

Phil: You have an actual desktop.

Phil: And so the newspaper will say what's going on in the world.

Phil: And then basically Wall Street Kid, you're trading stocks.

Phil: And then so it's really cool because the people that localized this made the companies that you're trading in similar to real world companies.

Phil: So instead of Boeing, it's Boeing.

Phil: Instead of Caterpillar, it's Centipede.

Phil: Instead of Kaufman and Broad, it's Kaufman, like C-O-U-A-G-H.

Phil: Marinat, Pan Mam, Ratel toys, like a rattle instead of Mattel.

Phil: Re-Bucks, Charles Shlob, Strayhound instead of Greyhound.

Phil: I could go on.

Phil: But what was interesting to me is they're saying, hey, these are the hot stocks.

Phil: But I kind of was doing this.

Phil: The reason why I failed the first round through was because I was doing the site analysis going, oh, I know that Re-Bucks is not going to win the fight with Nike, so I'm going to short them.

Phil: And I know that Pan Am, as an airline, is going to go out of business, so I'm going to short them, even though they're telling me that it's a hot stock.

Phil: You can, I say gamble, you can invest in YBM or Yapple.

Phil: And I'm like, oh, well, clearly, YBM is going to have short term gain, but then ultimately going to fail.

Phil: And I'm going to invest in Xerox instead.

Phil: So it is an actual shares game.

Phil: You can buy and sell shares.

Phil: You have a set amount of money.

Phil: And if you follow the stock tips in the paper, you'll actually win.

Phil: But I was kind of reading between the lines in the stock tips.

Phil: All you really need to do is buy the hot stocks that they tell you to buy.

Phil: So that's the key part of the game.

Phil: But the side story is you've also got this woman who you have to keep on the line and try and impress her.

Phil: So if you say something like, hey, do you want to go to the park?

Phil: And she'll say something like, are you crazy?

Phil: Haven't you read the paper?

Phil: You know, there's a mad man going through killing everyone in the park.

Phil: So that's where the newspaper comes into it as well.

Phil: And so you've got to keep, I mean, it's a very sensitive game in terms of the feminist ideal.

Phil: If you spend a lot of money...

Tom: Being killed in a park.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: I'm saying, like, if you spend a lot of money on this person or take her to shopping, then she will like you more.

Phil: You can take her for picnics when there isn't a crazy man in the park.

Phil: Or you can work out.

Phil: You can decide not to do other things and will say, hey, yeah, working out.

Phil: That's, you know, that's good for your mental, you know, head space as well.

Phil: Go ahead and work out.

Phil: Come back to work later.

Phil: So, yeah, as a work simulator, I haven't done the research yet, but I'm now going to look up, you know, Lucas Pope and Wall Street Kid to see how much that influenced him for Papers, Please, because this is very clearly a prototype of Papers, Please, which radically changes, you know, it blows my mind.

Phil: Does it blow your mind?

Tom: I don't think I've heard it compared to it anywhere else.

Phil: Yeah, I'm really going to have to look into it because this is it.

Phil: I mean, this is Papers, Please.

Phil: It doesn't have the political satire, but it does have Mad Magazine type parody of these companies.

Phil: And these companies, the parody is very close.

Phil: Like they have descriptions of these companies that is exactly what the original companies were all about in a jokey kind of way.

Phil: Yeah, so it's a very smart comment on Wall Street and basically privilege.

Phil: And I just absolutely love this game.

Phil: I think it has a password system, so it's not got the mod cons of gaming.

Phil: But this could certainly be converted to a mobile interface or anything like it.

Phil: It's not a big game.

Phil: It's not something that you pay $for.

Tom: And you are emulating it, so you can use save states and other various things.

Phil: Yeah, you can, and I realized that after I'd gone through the first one.

Phil: I had failed hopelessly.

Phil: I think in the first go through, I'd only raised $

Phil: And they do not give you a pat on the head in a participation medal.

Phil: They're like, no, you're fucked up, like we gave you a half million dollars.

Phil: How hard is this?

Phil: And the humor, yeah, the humor is there.

Phil: The game play is there.

Phil: And I actually found myself, I came into this like, oh, this is a joke review I've got to do for Tom.

Phil: But like before I knew it, I'd already played it for like an hour and a half and was wanting to play more.

Phil: So yeah, I thoroughly recommend Wall Street Kid.

Phil: And I don't know if there's been any newer versions of it.

Phil: I didn't really do any research for it outside of my review, but I'm prepared to give it a score without the Die of Destiny.

Tom: Please do.

Phil: If you can write down your estimate as to what score I will give it.

Tom: My guess is an out of

Phil: Well, you're supposed to write it down.

Phil: I am going to give it an out of

Tom: So I was correct.

Phil: Yeah, I was toying with Les because as a modern game, it's practically unplayable almost.

Phil: But the raw elements are so wonderful and great that it deserves a out of

Phil: It's held back by the time it was released,

Phil: Gosh, that's like years ago or something, isn't it?

Phil: Even more, years ago.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Yeah, so yeah, a fantastic time to revisit Wall Street Kid.

Tom: I think I may need to emulate it myself.

Tom: It sounds exceptionally fascinating.

Phil: Oh, it's fascinating.

Phil: Yeah, it is fascinating.

Phil: It's kind of like if you could find a prototype of Doom, you know, years before Doom came out, you know, or it's just incredible.

Phil: It blew my mind away.

Phil: It blew me away.

Phil: Are you familiar with the expression moist towelette?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Are you familiar with the expression moist towelette?

Tom: Probably the internet.

Phil: Oh, really?

Phil: Because a moist towelette is something that you would get from, like, KFC.

Phil: So usually back in the...

Tom: I'm familiar both with what a moist towelette is and also the term.

Phil: Well, why the internet?

Phil: You haven't seen a moist towelette in your real life?

Tom: I have, but you said the term as in someone might refer to someone or something as a moist towelette.

Phil: Just what a moist towelette is.

Tom: So you mean am I familiar with a moist towelette, not the term?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Because my kid's watching a show called PJ Mask, and there's a character in there called Owlette, and whenever I hear that, I just think, oh, I call it a moist towelette, you know, like if Owlette was to get wet, she'd be a moist towelette.

Phil: It's...

Phil: I'm just saying, I'm just reporting the facts.

Tom: Yes, you are.

Phil: And with that, I think you have another game you want to talk about other than Wall Street Kid.

Tom: So I think another interesting game, maybe not quite as interesting as Wall Street Kid, but nevertheless interesting, that I've played is Detention, which is a Taiwanese game, originally released in I think, and it is basically a side-scrolling horror adventure game.

Tom: But what makes it interesting is the setting.

Tom: It is set during one of Taiwan's recent periods of political instability, and as is the case in many instances in recent Asian history, said political instability is very much acted out to a large degree in the education system.

Tom: So it is set in a high school, and you are playing as a high school student, and it begins with you introducing several characters who you interact with, and all of a sudden the school is plunged into a horror setting, sort of in the vein of Silent Hill, and it's very much clearly inspired and influenced by Silent Hill, both with its very rusty aesthetic and also the way it presents the school in the horror version and non-horror version contrast.

Tom: And the gameplay basically consists of usually pretty simple puzzles that often boil down to just going through certain motions rather than solving puzzles themselves to get the items you need, but there are actually a few interesting puzzles throughout the game, including a puzzle again, obviously inspired by the piano puzzle in Silent Hill, where you have to work out what melody is being played and then play it.

Tom: And as you were going along, the protagonist's interaction with other students in the game and how that plays into the very paranoid political setting with dissent and betrayal and what characters were involved in what there is quite an interesting story.

Tom: And I think it makes great use of an interesting time period.

Tom: And I think the only disappointing thing is that a lot of the game is, as I said, just going through the motions to get items.

Tom: And the mechanic with enemies within the levels is sometimes, I think, a little bit awkward and isn't really, doesn't increase the tension like it should.

Tom: So as you are going through the school environments or outside the school, there are different types of spirits you encounter and the way you interact with them affects whether they catch you or not.

Tom: And this is actually quite interesting and clever.

Tom: So one of the spirits, which is a starving spirit, you have to feed rice, for example, and when you do that, then they're not a threat.

Tom: Another you can't look at, so when that appears, you have to turn your back to it and things like that.

Tom: So there are some clever things there, but the way they're used isn't that interesting in terms of pacing.

Tom: It's more like they're there as a way of preventing you moving on at a certain point, so that you have to find the information which tells you how to pass them and that sort of thing, so that it almost ends up feeling like they're a little bit of filler and just there to pad things out.

Tom: But even there, which is one of the more disappointing parts of the game, there is a fair bit of creativity.

Tom: And again, it also ties in nicely to the political situation as well.

Tom: So in terms of atmosphere, it is very rich.

Tom: In terms of gameplay, there is a fair bit of genuine creativity as well.

Tom: So, and aesthetically, while it leans very heavily on Silent Hill, it is an engrossing atmospheric experience as well.

Phil: So this is a side-scrolling game, and does it have a paper-cut type, not paper-cut, does it have like a craft paper type, marionette type style?

Phil: Looking at the images of it, that's how I imagine that it moves, but is it more fluid than that?

Tom: No, it isn't particularly fluid.

Tom: I wouldn't describe it as paper-cut.

Tom: I think a more accurate comparison, except obviously, actually a lot of it doesn't, more like a Punch and Duty style puppet quality to the movement, I would say.

Tom: And there are actually quite a few moments that cleverly use the puppet style of visuals as well.

Tom: So I would say that was probably what they were going for, and I think they nailed it as well.

Phil: I think the back story behind this game is really weird because it reeks of US State Department meddling because the game was banned in China, and then Steam...

Tom: Did you do an Easter egg, I think?

Phil: Well, yeah, exactly.

Phil: What's his name?

Phil: President Xi?

Phil: Xi Jinping?

Phil: Is this the game that had him represented as Muni the Pooh?

Tom: I think so.

Phil: Because he's particularly sensitive to that.

Phil: So anything that represents him as...

Phil: presents him as being Xi Jinping, right?

Phil: President Xi?

Tom: Xi Jinping, isn't it?

Phil: Yeah, no, I think that's someone else.

Phil: But in any case, maybe Xi Jinping preceded President Xi?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: We are a bunch of idiots, obviously.

Phil: But in any case, this is really weird.

Tom: I just want to point out that I was in fact correct.

Tom: It is Xi Jinping.

Phil: Okay, so the game got banned, and then Steam, a bunch of spineless wimps, pulled it off their service.

Phil: And this is a game that's available on every service other than Xbox, by the way.

Phil: You can get this on Linux, Switch, PlayStation, you name it.

Phil: It's just not available on Xbox, PC.

Phil: Yeah, so Steam pulled it.

Tom: I think it has since been put back on Steam.

Phil: Probably because they got caught out.

Phil: And you go, well, why is this conspiracy guy talking about the State Department?

Phil: Well, this game, Detention, the one you were talking about, got a contract with Netflix.

Phil: And it's on Netflix now.

Phil: You can go watch it.

Phil: It's got a season.

Phil: Did you know that?

Tom: Yes, I did.

Phil: Yeah, so it's a highly interesting game to go and watch.

Phil: And like, or to play, rather.

Phil: Because there's not a lot of games that come out of Taiwan.

Phil: It's nothing that has come up here before.

Phil: But obviously games are being made everywhere around the world where there's computers and electricity.

Tom: Do you think the Netflix show, unlike the game, has some ostensibly anti-American status quo things in it?

Tom: Because the previous funding model of the CIA was to fund, essentially, the majority of American subversive media.

Phil: Right, right.

Tom: So the American pump music movement was all CIA funded.

Tom: Serious highbrow literature all CIA funded.

Tom: So I wonder if that is still the model today that we don't know about, or if they have moved to funding something else.

Phil: Well, that's why I thought this was a State Department play, as opposed to a CIA play.

Phil: It just reeks of that to me.

Phil: And I'm surprised that Steam lacked the political nuance.

Phil: I guess they were just responding to their Chinese overlords, like the NBA or whatever, whenever someone's told, hey, take this down, this is anti-China, because it's depicting our leader as Winnie the Pooh.

Tom: I think Steam hasn't really proven to be anti-censorship in any way, shape or form, because I don't think this is the first example of a game that has been removed by Steam.

Phil: No, certainly not.

Tom: And while Detention is back on Steam, I don't think the developers' other game is on Steam.

Phil: Devotion was the game that came before it.

Phil: And hey, I only know all this because you brought this to light.

Phil: So in and of itself, where did you play this game?

Phil: And how did you get it?

Tom: I played it on Steam.

Phil: Okay, okay.

Phil: And so it's readily available now, obviously.

Tom: Correct.

Tom: And the other game is available to be bought from them directly.

Tom: It's just not on Steam.

Phil: Overall, is this a game that you'd recommend?

Phil: Was it a shortage game?

Tom: Yep, I think it was, according to my playtime, hours, so probably in reality, or hours long.

Phil: Yep, yep.

Phil: And it held your interest for that time.

Tom: Yes, it did.

Phil: It seems a bit grim in terms of its aesthetics.

Tom: Well, it is heavily inspired by Silent Hill.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: And the game it actually reminded me of most was not Silent Hill, but another side-scrolling horror game.

Phil: Let me guess.

Tom: The Cat Lady.

Tom: Oh.

Tom: What was your guess?

Phil: This War of Mine.

Tom: No.

Tom: Not as grim as This War of Mine.

Phil: Which was, wow, that game, man.

Phil: That was a good game.

Tom: That was a great game.

Phil: Yeah, fantastic.

Tom: I think that was my game of the year, perhaps, when Papers, Please was yours.

Phil: Yeah, and it certainly was, I don't know that it was the same year, but I know that you included in your top of best games of the s our feature.

Phil: So, at gameunder.net.

Tom: Well-deserving of its place.

Phil: Absolutely, absolutely.

Phil: And I'm ashamed of myself that I didn't play it more.

Phil: It was just probably too challenging for me, honestly.

Phil: So, Cat Lady, that's not about The Simpsons Cat Lady, is it?

Tom: No, it isn't.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: I don't know if I've played that one before.

Tom: I don't think you have.

Tom: But that's another side-scrolling horror game that is most notable for featuring the work of David Firth.

Phil: Who's David Firth?

Tom: David Firth is originally a Flash animator on the internet, famous for Salad Fingers and I think the Adventures of Burnt Toast Man, I think it was called.

Phil: Oh yeah, I remember Burnt Toast Man.

Tom: Yes, and he has moved on to a successful career in animation.

Tom: But we will now give Detention a score.

Tom: Hopefully, it will be better than Coronavirus and what was the other one?

Phil: Eight.

Tom: No, Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: That's it.

Tom: Which sounds like something that might give you AIDS.

Phil: That's terrible.

Tom: Unfortunately, Detention scores a one out of ten.

Tom: So when we do discover that it was funded by the CIA, State Department, my conscience will be clean.

Phil: Indeed.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: All right, Tom.

Phil: Well, with that, I think it's time to go on to another game that you've been playing, unless you want to talk about Port Patrol.

Tom: I want to talk about Port Patrol.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, look, Port Patrol is a franchise that if you don't have children, you've probably never heard of.

Phil: But it is a force.

Phil: It is an amazing, incredible force.

Phil: And it was a TV show that was developed by the guy behind Bob the Builder.

Phil: And it is a game for preschoolers.

Phil: And it's a game about transformation and power.

Phil: So you have these little dogs and then they have jobs.

Phil: And then as the series has gone on, I think they're in their th year right now, or at least they've surpassed their first years.

Phil: It's funded by a toy company.

Tom: So it's not funded by the State Department?

Phil: No, it's funded by Spin Master.

Tom: Looking at the way the show is presenting itself, I think it could be you've got a policeman, a fireman, all very normalizing sorts of jobs here.

Tom: You're sure this isn't State Department funded?

Phil: They also have a husky lesbian as well.

Tom: That's straight out of the CIA's modern advertising.

Phil: Exactly, it is actually.

Phil: But basically, to talk about these things just as games, Paw Patrol on a Roll was the first game that came out.

Phil: And it is basically a D side-scroller.

Phil: And it is a D side-scroller.

Phil: And it's pretty basic.

Phil: It's got fairly good graphics.

Phil: And you just basically go along.

Phil: It's a collectathon, needless to say.

Phil: But for my -year-old, she picked it up immediately and totally loves it because of the subject matter.

Phil: It propelled her onward to figure out how to use a modern video game controller.

Phil: So you're using the left analog stick, you're using all of the face buttons and all four of the trigger buttons, which to me is incredible.

Phil: And basically, you're just going through all of these levels that are too...

Phil: I'm not saying it's a bad game.

Phil: I'm saying it's a pretty good, engaging type collectathon game.

Phil: The levels aren't too long.

Phil: They're not too short.

Phil: They're relatively good.

Phil: And you want to go back and go back through and collect everything to get all of the rewards that you can.

Phil: So it was a valiant first effort, available for pretty much everything, except for Linux.

Phil: And I would give that game a out of because it was fairly tedious and not very advantageous or not very adventurous, rather, in its offering.

Phil: But still a good quality game that would engage someone of that age.

Phil: The sequel, Poor Patrol Mighty Pups, Save Adventure Bay, is fantastic.

Phil: It takes it from D to a top-down D world.

Phil: And so now you're engaging in basically like Mario Sunshine type level game.

Phil: And you're playing as all the different characters in this franchise.

Phil: But it's...

Tom: They have their own individual powers.

Phil: They have their own individual powers.

Phil: And it takes on more of a Lost Vikings type, problem-solving type thing.

Phil: So it's like, OK, I need the dude that has fire to melt the ice so that I can get the guy that crushes rocks to knock down the wall.

Phil: And I'm going to need the dog that can have helicopter powers to, you know, pick up the rocks after we've destroyed them, sort of thing.

Phil: And this just goes on and on and on.

Phil: So it's also a collectathon, but it has these musical elements as well that to someone who knows games, it's like, oh, they're totally riffing off Mario Sunshine or they're riffing off a Sonic over here in this ice level or whatever.

Phil: And it's just a really high quality game that I would give, you know, like an out of for.

Tom: So as good as Wall Street Kid.

Phil: Oh, yeah, pretty much.

Phil: I mean, pretty much for what they have to work with, because you've got the limitations of what they have to work with.

Phil: They have to make this game for someone who's through to probably

Phil: And you've got to make it challenging, but not too challenging.

Phil: But knowing also that these kids, just like when we were kids, they will play this game over and over and over and over again just because of the content.

Phil: Whereas, you know, we'd finish a game and move on to the next thing.

Phil: They are, they just keep playing it and playing it and playing it.

Phil: So, you know, it's really clever.

Phil: And I've got to take my hat off to the developer, Drakhar Studio, D-R-A-K-H-A-R Studio.

Phil: They're a Spanish developer.

Phil: And they've done a fantastic job with it.

Phil: It's really heartening to see, like, and the credit roll on this thing is hundreds of people.

Phil: Like, it's like Call of Duty.

Phil: It's incredible.

Phil: But just to see all the talents come together, you know, the artwork, the music, for a game that they could have just basically phoned in to see something that's engaging in terms of its puzzles as well as its quality is really good.

Phil: And, you know, as a parent, you feel good that your kid's playing this, but even more so, you feel good that they're learning how to use a modern controller, especially in that D game that will set them up for future games.

Phil: So, yeah, I'm really happy with it.

Tom: It sounds very good.

Phil: It is.

Phil: You know, I've played a lot of kids' games for review on gameunder.net, and, you know, you go into them.

Phil: People say, oh, are you just going into them to, you know, on them basically, because they're kids' games, because that was it.

Tom: Or just to collect trophies.

Tom: We know how much you love your trophy collection.

Phil: Yeah, no.

Phil: It's not about trophies or achievements, because, you know, like my caterpillar game that I played on Game Boy Color, for example, or what was that game, TV show, Everyone Loves Wanda?

Tom: Everybody Likes Chris.

Phil: Everybody Likes Chris.

Tom: Everybody Loves Raymond.

Phil: Everyone Likes Raymond.

Phil: Yes, that's another show.

Phil: There's another one.

Phil: That's so Raymond.

Phil: That's what I said.

Phil: So, you know, like when I reviewed That's So Raven, I didn't do it ironically or going into it like, oh, yeah, let me tell you how bad this game is, because I actually did like it, I think, and scored it on the podcast.

Phil: I go into it because these are professionals that are making these games.

Phil: You know, these are people that wake up, they think about this game for, you know, the three weeks that they made it.

Phil: But someone still made it.

Phil: It's still a creative element, and in these games, that's where you get to put subversive stuff.

Phil: That's where you get to put things that no one's going to pay attention to because it's a kids' game.

Tom: So what's the most subversive moment of Paw Patrol ?

Phil: Well, Paw Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay.

Phil: There is a character called Chickaletta, and there is a lady of color who is the mayor of Adventure Bay.

Phil: Yeah, there's not a lot of subversiveness in this particular one.

Phil: This is just a good game.

Tom: Maybe you should lower your rating then.

Phil: Yeah, I think so.

Phil: I actually am going to drop this down to a out of now that you've brought that up.

Phil: Because I have played these kids' games before because people who are making games, they're still getting paid to come in and do work, and they have good ideas, and they can hit on something good like they did with Wall Street Kid or that caterpillar game that I played.

Phil: So yeah, I mean, I'm just saying, you know, just because it's a kids' game doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be bad.

Phil: It's always interesting, and that's what this whole podcast and adventure has been about, is finding interesting games, not just the games that, you know, the commercially successful games.

Tom: I agree.

Tom: There's a lot of good children's content out there that is better than a lot of content for adults.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: There's no reason to assume that something will be more shallow or less aesthetically complex just because it's made for children.

Phil: I would say that if you have the choice to buy Poor Patrol on a Roll or Poor Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay, look, there's no going back from Poor Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay.

Phil: Do not go back and try and fill the catalogue.

Phil: Just, you know, look forward to what they've got.

Phil: The game that came after apparently was a tie-in with the movie and has not gotten as good a credit.

Phil: But I'm thinking I'm probably going to dip in and give it a go anyway because it was made by the same studio at least.

Phil: So, yeah.

Tom: Before we move on, I'm going to make a proclamation on that point.

Tom: I would say since the end of modernism, in literature, children's writing is creatively much freer and thematically much more difficult than writing for adults.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: I was reading a children's book last night, a new one.

Phil: Like this is an illustrated children's book, not like young fiction or anything like that.

Phil: And yeah, you can write some pretty avant-garde poetry in an illustrated children's book and get away with it.

Phil: There's no constraints at all other than commercial constraints, I guess.

Phil: But once you've sold one good kids' book, you can basically do whatever you want, and they're going to print it and put it out to kids.

Tom: Whereas that is very much not the case in publishing for adults these days.

Phil: Oh, no.

Tom: Oh, no.

Phil: I don't even know what the modern publishing scene is for adults if it's not like World War II related.

Tom: Is World War II big at the moment?

Phil: It always is.

Tom: I think it's been big since

Tom: Since Monopoly.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: OK, you want to include another game in here?

Tom: Yes, we may as well talk about Sky Children of the Light, which I am still playing.

Tom: They recently just released another season, which they released, I think, under two weeks since the previous one ended, which I am not a fan of.

Tom: I think that removes the interesting moments where everyone stops playing and you get a break and a chance to build up anticipation and hype for the next season.

Phil: Well, you've got to give...

Phil: I'm going to call it an expansion, but you've got to give that expansion time to breathe.

Phil: You know, so let people just sort of dwell on it.

Phil: I mean, is this the sort of thing that you can go back, like after you've, quote, finished it, go back into and sort of just live in that environment, that new environment that they've created, like they did with World of Warcraft?

Tom: Yep, you can return to the environments, new environments.

Tom: You usually wouldn't because the main reason you're returning to environments is to collect candle wax.

Tom: There's only, I think, two of the environments or three that people generally return to that have a lot of wax in them.

Tom: But I think other than returning to them, the other interesting thing I think that releasing the new season immediately takes away is also a chance to play around with different outfits and have a longer time to explore the last lot of clothing items you unlocked.

Tom: Because unless you're buying seasonal candles as well as the Adventure Pass, which allows you to unlock everything, the last lot of items, you won't be getting that far away from the end of the season.

Tom: So it also gives you less time to enjoy the different outfits as well before you then unlocking yet more of them.

Phil: So then two weeks later they've released the new season.

Phil: What's the season called?

Tom: I think it was under two weeks actually.

Tom: I can't recall the title of this season, but the theme is that of a travelling theatre company.

Tom: And it has introduced, like the last season, a new gameplay mechanic.

Tom: The previous season introduced a swimming mechanic.

Tom: I can't recall if we talked about that or not.

Phil: No, the last one we talked about was a season of flight.

Phil: That was a season of abyss.

Phil: This is a season of performance.

Phil: So this is the th season basically.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So the interesting mechanic they've introduced here is Dark Souls style visual candles.

Tom: So before there was the Dark Souls style mechanic where you could leave messages for other players that just featured something you wrote.

Tom: Now you can basically record yourself doing something, leave that as a message that takes the place, takes the form of a candle.

Tom: And if a player comes up and opens lights that candle, then they watch you perform doing whatever you recorded, which as well as allowing you to record them using skits or whatever you want, is also actually very useful in levels where there are doors that require multiple people.

Tom: For example, in the Vault of Knowledge, there's a door that requires four players to open the door with each of them pulling the door up.

Tom: So you can record a message, a video of you pulling that door up.

Tom: And if another player comes along and plays that message, but there are only two other players in that player's server, so there's three players actually there and there's your message.

Tom: If they play that message and the three other players pull the door up, then the door will be opened.

Tom: So it's actually a very interesting and clever solution to multiple player doors and things like that, as well as allowing for a lot of creativity as well.

Phil: So the messages, they're not vocal, obviously, because this is an international game.

Tom: No, so if you want to include a statement in your message, you use the text chat feature that is there.

Phil: Okay, so it is a vocal recording that you leave.

Tom: Well, it's not a vocal recording, but you can write a message as well as record yourself doing something.

Phil: Because I was going to say we could leave episodes of our podcast there, and then when three people had listened to all minutes of it, that would unlock the door.

Phil: I'm just thinking about the show here.

Tom: Well, we could leave quotes from the show.

Phil: Or transcripts from the show, that's true.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Probably not full transcripts because there is a text limit.

Tom: But quotes we could do.

Phil: Okay, fair enough.

Tom: And another example of a creative and useful thing that people can do is one of the things that other plays are useful for is recharging your flying energy through calls.

Tom: So in areas where players are likely to run out of energy, a lot of people have been leaving messages where they've recorded themselves doing the long call which recharges energy.

Tom: So if you play that message, your energy will be recharged.

Tom: So it's a very clever and very useful mechanic that they've introduced here.

Phil: So how much of this game for you is just interacting with your online game?

Tom: Nearly % of it at this point.

Phil: So it's kind of like Fortnite in that it's a playground that you can just basically go to and feel comfortable with and interact with your friends.

Tom: It's basically like an instant messenger with activities in the background.

Phil: Is this a treadmill that the game company, that game company can't get off of at this point?

Tom: I would say so.

Phil: Is that good?

Tom: Well, they are still doing some creative things.

Tom: Arguably, I would say this and the last season have been two of the more creative seasons, but they've introduced, I think, the only similar level of changes to gameplay in a season was still what I think was the best moment in Sky, which was the mushroom picking mechanic, which may have come about through a glitch and became this whole extremely difficult artificial way of collecting candles.

Tom: So I think there's still room for that game company to be creative in it.

Tom: And given that this is in the vein of Journey, it's probably something they're interested in doing long term, given that they did go back to Journey with Sky in the first place.

Phil: Right.

Phil: And I don't mean this as a criticism.

Phil: I mean, I could level the same thing at the people that are making Fortnite, and it is not a criticism.

Phil: But you do just wonder at a certain level, at what level does it become masturbatory as a creator to just stick to the one thing, you know, to come in and every day just be like, yeah, this is the thing that's working, we'll just keep doing this.

Phil: Is there enough challenge within Sky in the seasons that they've created to really...

Phil: I mean, in the Rocket League, you know, Scionic, the Rocket League guys, I'm looking at Fortnite, I'm looking at, you know, a number of games at this point where it's the same thing over and over again.

Phil: I know it's not the same thing.

Phil: Like, is it a valid criticism?

Tom: I would say the reverse of your criticism is valuable, is that there's not enough room for masturbation in getting stuck in repeating the same game over and over again endlessly.

Tom: Given that masturbation in the creative sense is usually used as a criticism of being overly creative.

Tom: Whereas here, rather than playing into attempting to satisfy your own creative curiosity, here you're stuck in attempting to satisfy an existing audience, leaving you no room to masturbate at all.

Phil: Yeah, it's just interesting.

Phil: I mean, you think of Derek Yu, who created Spelunky, and it was just so iconic and successful that really, unless he comes out with something radically different, then he can't break out of that mold.

Phil: And I guess the guys that did Bastion and there are the games that followed.

Phil: They've successfully pulled it off.

Phil: They've been able to make a new game every time they bring out a game and be successful and creatively successful as well.

Phil: Whereas Derek basically just brought out Spelunky and everyone went, yeah, of course.

Tom: I would question that on Supergiant Games actually, because in the one sense that it's true, in the other sense, all of their games are built on an identical principle of looking at what is out there and creating something that is based on numerous elements of other games.

Tom: So in a sense, they're not being much more creative than the developers you've mentioned.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, and you do get that.

Phil: I mean, when you listen to a band, and we've talked about this before, you know, from one album to the next, they're still playing in the same sandbox.

Phil: And with a few exceptions, there are very few bands that completely break out of their mold on a regular basis.

Phil: So what is the message of Sky?

Phil: Like, what is the message of Sky?

Phil: Is it social connectiveness?

Phil: Is it like the whole Buddhist-type connectivity, spiritual connectiveness?

Tom: That actually reminds me, which I have to bring up, Season of the Abyss, because I'm sure we did do first impressions of it.

Tom: And we talked about how thematically the interesting that was compared to some of the recent seasons up to that point.

Tom: I have to say, well, aesthetically it had a very enjoyable whale-eating player-style ending, very fitting for the setting.

Tom: Thematically, it did not go anywhere, very bizarrely, because it began with a setup for a very potentially environmentalist-themed storyline with the player helping a group of prospectors looking for resources in this ocean area.

Tom: And that went nowhere, which is very bizarre, given that that was a theme of arguably other moments in Sky and certainly Journey.

Tom: That was arguably one of the main themes in Journey, was the exploitation of the natural environment to the point of disaster.

Tom: Here, they essentially had that whole story narrative being set up, and it ended with that essentially going absolutely nowhere.

Tom: So thematically, that was a rather disappointing ending to the season of Abyss.

Phil: So what is Sky about?

Phil: I mean, it's got a very small team, and they're sticking with it.

Phil: It's obviously commercially successful, otherwise they wouldn't be able to do seasons of it.

Phil: And I think it is really cool, first of all, because when this game came out, no one knew it was going to be viable, and they've made it viable.

Phil: It took them forever to get to...

Phil: They went pretty rapidly from iOS to Android.

Phil: It took them forever to get to Nintendo Switch, and they haven't ever hit the PC.

Phil: I wonder why that is.

Phil: I wonder if it's because they think going to that scale would be disruptive.

Phil: I don't know if they think that their infrastructure can support the PC and the population that would come with it if they would, for example, hit Steam.

Phil: I mean, that is a very interesting question.

Tom: That is quite possibly the reason, because it can barely support the number of players it currently has.

Phil: That's fascinating.

Phil: Is that not fascinating?

Phil: That Microsoft that just snapped up a thousand companies, including Activision Blizzard, that someone wouldn't go to Jenova Chan and go, hey, you've got an amazing dream here.

Phil: We want to take it beyond.

Phil: You know, you guys have donated millions of dollars to charities through the different campaigns that you've run.

Phil: You can do even more good if we were to be able to put this in front of X million, tens of millions of people.

Phil: We'll buy you.

Phil: We'll leave you completely alone.

Phil: You can do whatever you want.

Phil: And you can have a bigger platform for the good that you want to do.

Phil: That is something that would happen.

Phil: This is a wildly successful game.

Tom: I think it's too close to an MMORPG structure rather than something like Fortnite or Destiny or Apex Legends where you'd be more likely to see that happening.

Tom: Because you did see that sort of thing happening at the peak of MMORPGs.

Tom: And the result was almost always a failure.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So I think the lesson has been learned.

Phil: I just think that this is a no-brainer purchase for Epic that went out and bought Psionic for Rocket League.

Phil: This seems to me to be something that Epic would be able to buy, nurture and leave alone and just blow open.

Phil: But again, you're exactly right.

Phil: The format doesn't allow it.

Phil: The format doesn't allow it unless you were to splinter the servers so that you could maintain that intimate thing.

Phil: It's kind of like a secret community, really, and probably something that you wouldn't want to see blown wide open.

Tom: And maybe they don't want to blow it wide open for creative reasons as well.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So I'm going to ask the question one more time.

Phil: What is it about?

Phil: What is the message of this game?

Phil: Because they went from Flow to Flower to Journey to This, which is an extension of Journey, and all of those games have been about, you know, a journey.

Phil: It's been about a journey, but also connectiveness, which to me is just like, that's slam dunk Buddhism, but and like maybe I'm just reading it wrong.

Tom: Well, I would say it is very much an expansion of the content of Journey.

Tom: It is referred to as a spiritual successor, but it is essentially a continuation of Journey thematically.

Tom: With the addition of capitalism, I think the major theme of Sky is the whale player and exploiting them for every penny they can get.

Tom: So I think rather than Buddhism, I think the message of Sky is mindfulness.

Phil: That's pretty cool, man.

Phil: So we got to the bottom of it.

Tom: Yes, I think we did.

Phil: So with that, I think we could probably wrap this up at this point and save some of these other games and stories for the next time that we play.

Tom: I think we should return briefly to Gran Turismo

Phil: Gran Turismo really?

Tom: Yes, because there was another amusing gameplay mechanic in it that is indicative of some of the more unscrupulousness and absurdity of the in-game economy, and that is roulette spins, which are supposed rewards for driving a certain distance each day.

Tom: If you drive, I think, kilometres in-game per day, you receive a roulette spin, which features five different potential prizes, one of which is a very small amount of credits.

Tom: If you have a low-value roulette spin, I think it's as low as credits, which is essentially nothing.

Tom: Now, as a test...

Phil: credits is nothing.

Tom: Yes, it is nothing.

Tom: And every...

Tom: where I'm at currently, which is still very early on, a reasonable race victory without getting the clean race bonus is credits.

Tom: So credits is very little.

Tom: Anyway, I accumulated roulette spins to do a test because as you get them, you very quickly notice that you almost always get the lowest value prize.

Tom: So I did in a row to find out, out of spins where there are possible prizes, how many of them were not the lowest prize?

Tom: How many out of would you guess were not the least value prize?

Phil: This is very important research.

Phil: So you accumulated all these spins until you had

Phil: And now you're going to spin them.

Phil: And they're supposedly going to be random.

Phil: So you could get...

Tom: You've got a in chance of the lowest prize.

Tom: So if you've got a in chance for one result out of you'd expect that to occur a couple of times, I think, mathematically speaking.

Phil: That is exactly right.

Phil: You'd expect that to happen twice.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So how many times do you think out of spins did I get the lowest value prize?

Phil: Six.

Tom: Seven.

Phil: I was going to say seven.

Phil: Then I...

Phil: yep, okay.

Phil: Seven.

Tom: Sorry.

Tom: So clearly, the odds are against the player here.

Phil: Against you.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: I think demonstrating the disdain that Polyphony Digital has for the player at this stage.

Phil: Money changes everything, man.

Tom: And the one other thing I'd like to mention is as well.

Tom: You mentioned some of the other non-jazz musical content of Gran Turismo such as Snoop Dogg.

Tom: Garbage.

Tom: Garbage.

Tom: Nirvana.

Tom: I think it was another one.

Phil: Nirvana wasn't in there.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Anyway, I just mentioned the jazz.

Tom: Yes, you are correct, of course.

Tom: It does indeed contain rock music, even some things you could perhaps vaguely describe as hip-hop beats.

Tom: But I think the only thing from any Gran Turismo soundtrack, certainly that sticks in my mind, is the jazz selection.

Tom: I think for the other types of music, including the classical music, they're usually not the most engaging examples of those genres.

Tom: Whereas when it comes to the jazz, it is a step above something like Kenny G.

Tom: Whereas I think for other genres, that's the sort of equivalent you find in Gran Turismo soundtracks.

Phil: I'd have to agree with that.

Phil: I just was blown away that you play as much as Gran Turismo and couldn't remember Garbage's soundtrack, but maybe that's just me.

Tom: And that does remind me of another interesting music selection.

Tom: I was playing a little bit of Tekken Tag Tournament and was amused to find that the theme song for one of the stages was by Snoop Dogg.

Phil: What wasn't at that point?

Phil: Or what isn't today, for that fact?

Phil: Okay, hey, the name of that game, that psychological counselling game that I can't stop playing, is Kind Words.

Phil: Have you bothered to even download or try it?

Tom: I think at one point I downloaded it, but I haven't tried it yet.

Phil: I think it's profound.

Tom: And it's currently not installed.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's a profound interactive experience.

Tom: Before we move on, there is one last thing I want to say about Gran Turismo which is, I think, a change for the series, but not necessarily a negative change.

Tom: And that is the, not the structure of the campaign, but the way, the sort of player behaviour they're encouraging.

Tom: I mentioned that the roulette rules, roulette spins are unlocked after only kilometres.

Tom: Now, that's only three or four races.

Tom: So there is a heavy encouragement, I would say, for short play sessions.

Tom: And if you, depending on how you want to play, it's almost like once you get to that point, then there is less encouragement to continue playing for longer, because once you get a single roulette spin, you don't get a second one for when you hit kilometres, for example.

Tom: So at that point, you're wasting kilometres, and you may as well stop playing until the next day.

Tom: Or at least that will be the sort of thing they will be encouraging if roulette spins were not a punishing experience every time you used one.

Phil: The more you describe this game, the more I am completely disinterested in it.

Phil: It sounds like every other piece of garbage that is infiltrating AAA gaming.

Phil: You know, massive downloads, the hard sell after a short period of time for, you know, in-store purchases.

Phil: They're killing games.

Phil: This is garbage.

Tom: Absolutely, but the one thing about it is, which makes it actually less annoying and intrusive, is it is so badly done.

Tom: As I said, for example, once you get to that point, you stop getting rewarded for continuing to play, as opposed to if you're playing...

Tom: if you're playing Forza Horizon, which has a barrage of things that it wants you to do every single day to try and get you to play it as long as possible.

Tom: And the microtransactions are so ridiculous and absurd, there's really no encouragement to do it.

Tom: Who is going to buy a single car for $?

Tom: Probably some people will, but virtually no one.

Phil: No one with a healthy mental state.

Tom: Yes, whereas in Forza Horizon, if there's a car you really want that's part of a car pack for $that has maybe cars in it, and there are quite a few other cars you're interested in there, then you'll be tempted to actually get that.

Tom: So the whole monetization of the game and encouragement to get players to play in a certain manner with the roulette spins that are a punishing rather than rewarding experience, unlike the Forza Horizon spins, is so badly done, it ends up being less intrusive than other games, even though it has been shoehorned in there, unfortunately.

Phil: I just see this as complete abuse.

Phil: I mean, you know, these games that are capitalizing on whales spending $on the game, it's abuse.

Phil: It's absolute abuse.

Phil: It should be illegal.

Phil: And it's certainly left to their own devices.

Phil: The major publishers of video games, with a certain few exceptions, are absolutely counter to everything that what video games is about.

Phil: And you can certainly say that about book publishers.

Phil: I fully appreciate that.

Phil: It is % true about music publishers.

Phil: I can fully appreciate that, which is why people that own the presses, you know, should be executed.

Phil: And that's why I love itch.io.

Phil: That's why I love the independent game movement.

Phil: And for me to actually think that a major publisher of a game franchise that I actually once loved, like Gran Turismo, is capable in this millennia of producing something of merit, you know, is absolutely ridiculous.

Phil: And I'm the one that should be ashamed for assuming that they would be capable of producing an entertainment product that I'd be happy to pay for without all of these hooks, you know, in my cheekbone.

Phil: It's offensive to me.

Tom: And the other thing that is so frustrating about it is that it is in a Gran Turismo with revolutionary gameplay for consoles where you have a legitimately good sim physics model with a Gran Turismo style career mode.

Tom: There is no other game like this.

Tom: And it's Gran Turismo career mode that has finally found its identity for the first time since Gran Turismo with the whole menu book thing.

Tom: And yet, they've stuck this stuff on top of it.

Phil: They're using developers as prostitutes, and they're big pharma that's got the cure, and it sucks.

Phil: And I'm sorry I'm so animated about this, because it just angers me, because gaming used to be such a fun enterprise from the publisher down.

Phil: The publisher knew that people loved games, and they loved games as much as the people that played them.

Phil: But what you're describing to me, Gran Turismo is like a casino.

Tom: It is.

Tom: The roulette wheel is rigged against you.

Phil: I mean, it couldn't be any more transparent.

Phil: That sucks.

Phil: Anyway, the name of the...

Tom: I have seen amusingly some people on the internet mentioning that the roulette is so unrealistic because it is rigged.

Tom: I'm not sure if they're familiar with casinos and the way gambling works.

Tom: But getting the worst result only out of times on a roulette wheel is doing pretty well, I think.

Phil: Pretty charitable.

Phil: Maybe that's how they sleep at night.

Phil: I want to...

Tom: We're better than an actual casino.

Phil: I was going to say I want to meet these people and kick their brains in, but I wonder who they are.

Phil: I wonder if the people that are contorting Gran Turismo are in America or Japan.

Phil: I struggle to think they're in Japan, but that just probably is my stereotypes kicking in.

Tom: Maybe they are predominantly from Japan.

Tom: Japan is...

Phil: Yeah, home to the Yakuza...

Tom: .

Tom: the world where there are Yakuza Pachinko games.

Phil: Is that it for Gran Turismo ?

Tom: There is one tangentially related thing to Gran Turismo I do have to bring up, because there was an Australian Grand Prix for the first time in many years, which exposed me for the first time to the fascinating world of baldness prevention, or not baldness prevention, baldness prevention and the reconstitution of hair ads, which are a lot different to the last time I saw baldness related ads, perhaps in the previous Australian Grand Prix a few years ago, where they were essentially advertised as either get your hair back to be like Shane Warne, which you can't do anymore today for obvious reasons, or get your hair back so that you can have an amazing wife and a sports car and that sort of thing.

Tom: That's how I remember baldness related ads to be in the past.

Tom: Today, baldness ads consist of a man standing in a hall with dark depressive lighting, holding a photo of himself when he had hair and placing it on the wall as the lights are turned up and the narration explains how this poor bald man was such a disgusting inhuman creature as he was balding, that he was so ashamed, rightfully so, that he had to take down photos that he had of himself throughout the house when he had hair.

Tom: But now that his hair has regrown and he is human again, he can replace these photos from his past when he was human, and be human once again.

Tom: Or another man standing taking a photo with his parents, as the narration explains, that he used to be a wonderful photographer for his parents, because he was such an inhuman, shameful and despicable creature while he was balding, that he was rightfully taking himself out of every photo, so that he didn't ruin his parents' life, and force them to hide any photos they had of themselves, in case their friends and family saw that they had a balding son.

Tom: Now, with a wonderful full head of hair, he can take selfies with his parents once again, and return to the human world.

Phil: Well, maybe Jada Pinkett can watch a couple of those ads and figure it out, because baldness has gone from being a legitimate source of humor to being a bloody disorder.

Phil: Anyway, hey, the name of the game I was trying to remember was Kind Words, which is something I'd thoroughly recommend.

Phil: I know that you've probably downloaded it, but not installed it yet.

Phil: It is, you know, I think it's a profound, the most profound form of communication since AOL Chat was introduced, or IRC was introduced more appropriately.

Tom: Have you come across any baldness-related messages on it?

Phil: Probably.

Phil: I mean, I've responded to a few thousand patients at this point, unpaid.

Phil: Oh, actually, I am paid in stickers.

Phil: They don't cost me a cent, by the way.

Phil: So unless you've got any last parting words, then this is the end of episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Please visit gameunder.net.

Phil: Visit our review section where we've posted up some of Tom's best retro reviews that have been hidden for well over a decade.

Phil: We resurfaced them and they're available there.

Phil: You can go back and listen to our back catalogue.

Tom: While we're on the topic of comedy, you will hear today, comedians everywhere saying you couldn't get away with that today.

Tom: Here we are dipping into the vault from years ago and fearlessly republishing content that other pathetic outlets couldn't get away with today.

Phil: Fearlessly.

Phil: That is exactly right.

Phil: I mean, even we didn't talk about it, but with Max Payne and I'm pretty sure they're going to do these remakes and pull the originals off the scene because there's some, you know, in a quote inappropriate stuff in that as well.

Phil: But yeah, our whole catalogue's up there.

Phil: You want misogyny.

Phil: You want racism.

Phil: We got episodes.

Phil: They're all up there on the web.

Tom: While we're on the topic of...

Phil: We're not on any topic...

Tom: .

Tom: the sheer cowardice of the creative world outside of gameunder.net.

Tom: Can I just add?

Tom: Yes, I'm going to.

Tom: No one talked about the fact that you have comedians terrified that someone got slapped and that this is going to destroy the world of comedy because they are afraid to go on stage because of the violence they are facing.

Tom: Motherfucker!

Tom: If you are afraid of fucking getting slapped because you want to say something in your art, what the fuck are you doing?

Tom: Going to a different job, you have no place in creativity.

Tom: We live in a world where people are beheaded or have been beheaded in the past for being willing to stand by their creative statements.

Tom: If you are afraid of getting slapped, piss off and get another job, you are probably not contributing anything creative worth a damn.

Phil: That's it.

Phil: Look at those French dudes that did the pictures of Mohammed.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: I mean, have a take and stand by it.

Phil: I think that's our new motto.

Phil: Thanks for listening to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg and I have been joined by my host.

Phil: I am Mr.

Phil: Tom Towers.

Tom: My sign off is now a cough.