Game Under Podcast 137

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Introduction

0:00:20 Hi

First Impressions - Both Hosts

0:00:55 Art of Rally - Switch and PC

0:01:55 Rally Car Racing

0:04:40 Phil copies Tom's Homework

0:06:15 Tom's Views

0:12:10 Kenya Dig It? (New Kenya DLC)

ASMR and Whiskey Update

0:17:20 Just for Keen Listeners

0:20:25 Sky News Update (the game, not the network)

First Impressions - Both Hosts

0:21:45 Hot Shot Racing & Comparitive Analysis of N64 and PS1/ Arcade Games

0:23:00 Top Gear Overdrive N64 Burros and Hotdogs

0:25:15 Hot Shot Racing

0:27:10 Speed Devils & Speed Busters

0:37:00 Need For Speed: Heat

0:43:00 Wipeout

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg

0:44:20 Jason Schreier's New Book Press Reset

0:47:45 The Atlantic, ACLU and The New Yorker walk into a Bar

First Impressions - Both Hosts

0:51:15 Back to Hot Shot Racing and Arcade Racing

Food Review - Tom Towers

0:53:00 ASMR Food Test - Vegan Fish (Phil is Disgusted)

1:01:45 Honkey Doree Gets a Coveted "Repeat Eat"

Trademark Banter

1:02:00 Giantbomb.com Cleans House with Bleach

1:05:20 Top Three Tourism Promoters

1:05:55 Not For Sale Anecdote

1:10:00 Jeff Gerstmann Animosity

1:15:10 No Clip

Final Thoughts - Tom Towers

1:22:45 Omno on PC

1:23:25 Tim Keenan

Off Topic

1:27:35 Twitter @gameunderphil

1:28:30 Say What You Will About Homefront

1:30:50 Back to Twitter

Final Thoughts - Tom Towers

1:34:30 The Last Stop

1:42:35 Gamespot as Internet Incubator

First Impressions - Tom Towers

1:50:35 The Ramp

Transcript

Phil: Hi, everyone, this is Phil Fogg.

Phil: Welcome to episode 137 of Australia's longest-running video game podcast, The Game Under Show, The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Ah, Tommy, you're still there, mate, after all those false starts.

Tom: Yes, I am, and I just assume that's gonna be the one long cold open.

Phil: Well, no, certainly none of the audience will get to hear any of that stuff.

Phil: Well, I might put it at the end of the show, but the important thing is we are recording Australia's longest-running video game podcast.

Phil: And I've got to admit that since the last recording, I've probably spent more time editing our podcasts than I have been playing video games, in at least new ones.

Phil: I've been mostly playing Yakuza Like a Dragon.

Phil: But today, actually, you turned me on to the fact that a game that you had reviewed some time ago, Art of Rally, is actually now being brought out on the Switch and PlayStation 4 and Xbox.

Phil: It previously was not on that platform. So I was able to download it and play a small part of it.

Tom: Well, it's finally had its console release after being previously only on PC.

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Phil: It's from the team called Funselektor.

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Phil: And I'm assuming that they're Finnish.

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Tom: I think so.

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Phil: I mean, the game does start.

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Tom: It is a rally game.

01:35.160 --> 01:35.500

Phil: Yeah.

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Phil: And did they invent, did Finland invent rally?

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Phil: The sport of rally?

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Tom: I don't think they invented it, but they mastered it.

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Phil: Okay.

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Tom: And they did invent some disciplines of it, at least.

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Phil: We should say the Art of Rally is a video game that's basically based on the motorsport of rally art or, I'm sorry, what do you call it?

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Phil: Rally car racing or?

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Tom: I think you call it rally racing.

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Phil: Rally racing.

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Phil: I don't know why.

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Tom: Or simply racing.

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Tom: I mean, oh sorry, or simply rally.

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Phil: Just rally, right?

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Tom: Yes.

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Tom: Or if it was an Olympic sport, it might be called sport rally.

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Phil: Or rally car racing.

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Phil: I don't know why everything I say today sounds ridiculous, but anyway, rally racing.

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Tom: So it's just like any other episode.

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Phil: Which is a really fascinating thing to watch on television, and it's been emulated in video game form for a long period of time.

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Phil: I believe one of our top 10 hardcore games of all time was one that you introduced that's in the genre.

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Phil: Isn't that right?

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Phil: One of your favorites?

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Tom: Oh, Richard Burns Rally, are you thinking of?

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Phil: Yeah, Richard Burns Rally.

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Phil: I mean, it's been a part of video gaming for quite a time.

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Phil: And then, of course, I've reviewed RC Pro-Am several times on the, well, I went through all of the RC Pro-Am games.

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Phil: Now, of course, that's remote control cars, so it's not really the same thing.

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Phil: But funnily enough, Art of Rally does have that same top-down perspective.

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Phil: It's not really isometric.

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Phil: It's just the camera's pulled way back as if you were following this from a helicopter.

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Phil: So you're not actually driving it in first person or just in third person behind the car like most racing cars, racing games.

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Phil: And the Art of Rally is kind of a two-for-one because it's describing the game's very unique and beautiful art style.

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Phil: It's no textures at all, at least in the way that you'd think of them traditionally.

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Phil: Everything is very flat, lots of flat modeling and very ambitious, I'd say, but also in terms of development, it lends focus on the physics of the game, which is obviously what the whole point of the game is.

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Phil: Is that right?

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Phil: Because I've only played it for like 20 minutes.

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Phil: You've obviously played it enough to write a review of it at gameunder.net.

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Tom: So I may only have played it for 20 minutes, is what you're saying as well.

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Phil: I think the primitive colours and impressionistic fidelity of the rally stages and vehicles are easy to harmonise with the dreamy and big goodies of the synthwave soundtrack.

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Tom: You're impressively eloquent there, I have to say.

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Phil: But also, you know, the anti-lag intake noises and exhaust note and squealing of...

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Tom: It complements the music wonderfully, doesn't it?

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Phil: It does.

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Phil: I mean, it easily finds its niche, you know, in the eclectic percussion.

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Tom: I'm blown away by your eloquence there.

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Tom: That was so wonderful.

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Tom: It was as if you were reading off a script.

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Phil: It's almost as if I'm reading a review off of a website.

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Phil: But, you know, I've got to say the world of Art of Rally, just from what I've seen, is indeed gorgeous.

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Phil: But what I want to know is, does the perspective of the...

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Phil: like, do you get to unlock stuff later on?

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Phil: Because it is quite basic to start with.

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Phil: And I don't feel like I'm even playing with a Tinker toy.

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Phil: It doesn't feel...

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Phil: other than that the...

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Phil: and honestly, I'm not reading your review anymore, but as you can tell.

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Phil: But other than the sound and the use of the vibration in the Switch, which I've got to say is exceptional, they've obviously used all the tools that are available for them on the Switch, in terms of using the vibration ability of the Switch controls or the Switch controller.

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Phil: Besides that, there's nothing really there to impress me so far.

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Phil: And I've got to think that that's only because over time, different things are going to be unlocked.

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Tom: Well, I think what you need to do is to alter the driving settings, because the default settings from what I can remember are extremely arcady.

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Tom: If you change that to most of the simulations, then it is a genuine simcade game, and that is where, other than the aesthetic of it, the main appeal lies.

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Phil: I think it's much like another game that we've both been playing that we'll be talking about later in the same genre, and that's Hot Shot Racing.

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Phil: I mean, it has a lot of similarity to it.

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Phil: Would you say that Hot Shot Racing is a simcade?

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Tom: No, I would not.

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Tom: I would certainly not.

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Phil: You're just going to say pure arcade.

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Tom: That is a pure arcade game.

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Tom: Which I believe was their intention.

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Tom: And I sincerely hope was their intention.

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Phil: We'll get to that later on.

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Phil: Okay, so it's not that I will unlock things.

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Phil: It's just a matter of the settings.

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Tom: Well, what you will unlock as you go along is cars and rallies.

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Tom: So you unlock more locations and more vehicles.

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Tom: You don't unlock more.

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Tom: Well, you do.

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Tom: You unlock free roam.

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Tom: So that's one thing.

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Tom: But the main appeal is not unlocking different gameplay modes, but unlocking the rallies as you go along in different places.

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Tom: So that's what the career mode consists of.

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Tom: Then the main appeal that results in a fair bit of depth to it.

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Tom: The campaign maybe takes 10 to 15 hours or so.

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Tom: I played it for 25 hours, I think, according to Steam.

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Tom: And the reason for that is the main appeal is, other than the aesthetic, the driving physics, which with the right sort of settings are actually very deep and it becomes really enjoyable to be trying to beat the times of other players.

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Phil: Yeah, so it's got basically stability assist, which controls the car's rotation.

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Phil: You can help tune oversteer and understeer.

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Phil: Countersteer factor, which is interesting.

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Phil: It's currently set at 160% with stability assist at 100.

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Phil: Anti-lock braking is at 50% by default.

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Phil: And transmission, you know, automatic or manual, the option.

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Phil: So did you play it manual?

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Tom: Is there traction control?

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Phil: Not under the gameplay settings, no.

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Tom: But to answer your question, I did indeed play in manual, of course.

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Phil: Okay.

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Tom: And I would have to check what the settings are, but I think stability management was off completely.

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Tom: Countersteer, I think I had that on to some degree, due to without playing with a wheel, obviously that is what straightens your wheels out when you stop steering, if I remember correctly.

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Tom: But I would need to check the fine details of what they are.

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Tom: But there would also be steam guides around that would be suggesting what the optimum settings were as well.

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Tom: And the other thing as you are going along though is, also bear in mind that the cars you begin with are extremely slow.

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Tom: But part of the appeal there is where they are from in rally history.

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Tom: So that is still enjoyable.

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Tom: And I have to ask you, where did you end up, what difficulty are you playing on and where did you end up in your first rally if you have completed it?

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Phil: Well, obviously I think in the first 20 minutes it is just open world play where you are going around collecting photo points and the words rally, not unlike in RC Pro Amp.

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Tom: That would be right, yep.

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Tom: So you have not actually started the game, essentially.

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Phil: No, no.

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Tom: That is the tutorial.

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Phil: No, I am just trueling around in the tutorial.

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Phil: Now, it does offer online support as well.

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Tom: The online support consists of not racing against other players, but time attack against them.

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Tom: So each rally stage will have a leaderboard for the fastest times on it.

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Tom: And then there are also online events, which is you, but not at the same time, rallying against other players.

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Tom: And I think that's the main online components of it, if I remember correctly.

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Tom: And once you get into it, the leaderboards were very enjoyable.

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Tom: I managed to get into...

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Tom: I think I got one stage top once, and I got into the top ten on quite a few occasions.

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Tom: But as time progressed, people got progressively better and better, of course.

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Tom: But I was still managing to keep up somewhat with the top 100.

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Tom: I returned to try out some of the Kenya update, which I will comment on in a moment.

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Tom: And horrifically, I came in two rallies, seventh against the highest AI difficulty and tenth in another one.

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Tom: So I have rather forgotten my skills in Art of Rally, unfortunately.

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Phil: Well, I've got to say, I just restarted it to check the camera options.

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Phil: And by default, they have it set at four.

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Phil: There are eight different...

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Tom: You can zoom in and out.

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Phil: Exactly.

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Phil: So I switched it over to two.

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Phil: And that's much more pleasing.

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Phil: And I'd probably zoom it in a little bit.

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Tom: It will not be once you start driving faster.

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Phil: Okay.

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Phil: Because you need to see the longer range.

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Tom: Correct.

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Phil: Yep.

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Phil: And yeah, I was just playing the Kenya mode.

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Phil: So you have downloaded the update and tried the Kenya mode?

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Tom: Yes, I have.

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Phil: The Kenya mode.

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Phil: The Kenya stage.

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Tom: Yes.

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Tom: It's a whole rally consisting of, I think, six stages.

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Tom: That may be wrong, but around that, it's like six or eight stages, and it also introduces, I think, four cars, three in Group B and one in Group 4, unless it's six cars, then it's five in Group B and one in Group 4.

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Tom: And I've driven a Group B car and a Group 4 car, and the Group B car, compared to many of the Group B cars, was very easy to control.

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Tom: So I have to try more of them, because part of the appeal of the Group B cars is the difficulty in controlling them.

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Tom: But the Group 4 car was suitably oversteery and difficult to control.

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Phil: I've got to say, if anyone has any concerns about the fidelity, the visual fidelity, or the frame rate, or anything like that on the Switch, because the Switch has less technical chops than pretty much every other platform that this game is available on, do not be concerned.

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Phil: It's wonderful.

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Phil: And, you know, probably the visual style of the game helps with that, but it just flows very nicely.

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Phil: It was a quick download, easy install.

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Phil: It's available on the store for 25 bucks in Australia, so I can't imagine that's the same in the US, but, you know, certainly a good value.

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Phil: You can see that it's deep.

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Phil: You can see that this is going to get a lot of playtime put into it, which is also perfect for the Switch because it lends itself to portable play and playing just before you go to bed and all that sort of thing.

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Phil: So in that sense, I'd recommend it.

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Tom: So it's a good first impression.

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Phil: Yeah, definitely.

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Phil: And these guys, I remember from your original review as well that FunSelector had made a similar game but set in an urban environment prior to this.

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Phil: Is that how you came to know them or was it you went back to that after you played this?

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Tom: That was Absolute Drift.

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Phil: Yep.

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Tom: And I played that before Art of Rally.

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Tom: Not too long after release, if I remember correctly.

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Tom: So I was highly anticipating Art of Rally.

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Tom: And Art of Rally is superior in pretty much all areas.

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Tom: So it is a tremendously impressive follow up to Absolute Drift, which was an extremely unique and enjoyable arcade racing game in which you were drifting the entire time and just trying to get the highest score.

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Tom: While it was a little bit more arcade than Art of Rally, there was enough to it that, again, that was extremely easy to get into, getting as high as possible on the leaderboards.

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Phil: Yeah, I'm just on their website now trying to figure out, you know, who they are and where they're from.

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Phil: They seem to be a fairly small team.

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Phil: There's a founder, vehicle and general artist, developer, developer, developer, sound like Bauma now, developer, producer, creative director.

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Phil: But, you know, it's like six or eight different people, which I'm sure if we checked out the credits, they'd all line up.

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Phil: Because it's kind of funny that, like, a small, maybe it's not funny at all, but, like, you know, they're like now a driving studio or something like that, you know, so it'd be interesting to see what their next step is going to be.

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Phil: But, yeah, you've got to appreciate what they've done here.

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Phil: Do you have...

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Tom: Do you find out if they were from Finland or...?

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Phil: Well, it's not very clear on their website where they're from.

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Phil: You know, there's a mention of New Zealand in there, so I feel terrible.

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Tom: I'm going to guess they're probably not from Finland, because two of the main people behind Art of Rally are Dune, Casu and Adrian Tassel.

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Phil: Is there anything else you want to say about this before we go on to the next topic or next game?

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Tom: Well, I must add that they may be a PC case, because in Googling or searching on Bing for Dune, Casu to try and find out his origin, the first result was for the Dune Pro Power to Choose case by dunecase.com, which is a PC case that's engineered for a range of industry standard parts.

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Phil: Well, that could explain perhaps the elemental art style.

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Phil: So you think this game was made by artificial intelligence?

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Tom: It may well have been.

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Phil: Interesting.

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Phil: They should have put that on the front of the box.

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Phil: They probably would have sold some more copies.

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Phil: Well, I'm sure that's selling well, because they're obviously porting it over to all these new platforms.

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Phil: So I understand that your ASMR session from last time has continued.

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Tom: Well, it's been going on in the background.

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Tom: So keen listeners...

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Phil: That's a reward for keen listeners, is it?

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Tom: Yes.

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Tom: That's right.

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Tom: Obviously there's nothing in the content for them to pay attention to.

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Phil: Keen listeners may recall that I drank whiskey on this show for the first time in my life.

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Tom: What are you drinking today?

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Phil: You may not remember, but my first impression of whiskey was not very good.

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Phil: In fact, I think I said it tasted like mothballs.

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Tom: Yes, you did.

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Phil: But then I went on and, you know, I'm not a big drinker of whiskey.

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Phil: But, you know, if I need a break from beer or whatever, I will try a different kind of whiskey.

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Phil: Today I'm trying Sheep Dog, which is whiskey with natural flavors, and it's peanut butter whiskey.

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Tom: So it's not sheep dog flavor.

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Phil: It doesn't taste or smell like a sheep dog, like most whiskey.

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Tom: What about lanolin?

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Phil: No, it doesn't smell like lanolin.

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Tom: So there's nothing sheepy about it at all.

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Phil: It's a product of the United States.

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Phil: I was going to say the United States of the United States, but it's a product of the USA, United States of the USA.

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Tom: Do they not have sheep there?

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Phil: I'm sure there are some sheep, but I haven't seen any over there.

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Tom: There are at least a lot of sheeple, I've heard.

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Phil: Oh, sheeple, there you go.

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Phil: Yeah, so this is peanut butter whiskey.

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Phil: So the obvious question is, does it taste like peanut butter?

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Phil: And yeah, a little bit.

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Phil: It tastes more like Kahlua, like a Kahlua, Kahlua kind of thing, really.

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Tom: Is it better or worse than the last one?

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Phil: It's better than the first whiskey I drank, which was Ballentine's, which was terrible.

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Phil: But yeah, it's okay.

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Phil: It's obviously not a...

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Phil: You're not drinking it because it's a whiskey.

19:23.060 --> 19:26.360

Phil: It really does just taste like one of those liqueurs, so...

19:27.220 --> 19:28.960

Tom: And Ballentine is in Yakuza.

19:28.980 --> 19:29.920

Tom: I don't think this one is.

19:30.260 --> 19:31.520

Phil: No, no, this is a...

19:32.440 --> 19:43.580

Phil: Even though it's from a real company in the US, it's, you know, whiskey drinkers would be equally appalled that I'm drinking this as they were when I described Ballentine's as tasting like mothballs.

19:44.240 --> 19:50.380

Phil: So, yeah, this is probably not one I'm gonna go back to, but it was too novel not to try.

19:50.400 --> 19:53.280

Tom: So you're just gonna leave it on the shelf with Ballentine's?

19:53.380 --> 19:55.820

Phil: No, I'll drink it all probably during this episode, so...

19:57.640 --> 19:58.680

Tom: And how big is the bottle?

19:59.260 --> 20:04.120

Phil: Let's see, it's got 19 standard drinks in it.

20:04.640 --> 20:06.620

Phil: So that's 700 milliliters.

20:08.680 --> 20:10.660

Phil: It's 35% alcohol by volume.

20:11.480 --> 20:14.140

Phil: So maybe that's all at the bottom of the bottle.

20:14.720 --> 20:15.820

Phil: We'll find out today.

20:15.840 --> 20:17.240

Tom: So you need to shake it up first.

20:17.260 --> 20:17.840

Tom: Yeah, shake it up.

20:18.580 --> 20:21.620

Tom: Pro tip when drinking whiskey, shake the bottle first.

20:22.920 --> 20:23.360

Phil: Exactly.

20:25.520 --> 20:30.140

Phil: So now, I haven't gotten very far with Sky.

20:30.840 --> 20:33.080

Tom: Well, I have successfully added you as a friend.

20:33.160 --> 20:33.460

Phil: Right.

20:34.260 --> 20:38.120

Tom: But you, I don't think you've been back onto it since then.

20:38.300 --> 20:39.640

Phil: I've tried to...

20:39.660 --> 20:42.880

Tom: Is that a coincidence or a deliberate attempt to avoid you?

20:42.900 --> 20:44.560

Phil: No, no, I've tried two or three times.

20:44.800 --> 20:49.520

Phil: I've played it two or three more times and tried to friend you, but I haven't seen you in there.

20:49.580 --> 20:52.000

Phil: So you don't have to be online for me to friend you.

20:52.020 --> 20:53.820

Phil: I just got to look up at the sky, right?

20:54.880 --> 20:56.420

Tom: And is there no one there?

20:57.040 --> 21:09.320

Phil: There's a bunch of people named Phil Fogg because when I was first playing the game and going up to people, when it put up the option for a name, I thought it was asking me for, you know, what's my name?

21:09.420 --> 21:11.000

Phil: So I'd say Phil Fogg.

21:11.020 --> 21:14.980

Phil: So now I've named all the people that I've met Phil Fogg.

21:15.680 --> 21:21.320

Phil: Apparently they allow duplicate entries in their database because all my friends are called Phil Fogg.

21:22.840 --> 21:24.120

Phil: I may have called you Phil Fogg.

21:24.140 --> 21:25.780

Phil: Maybe that's why I can't find you either.

21:26.560 --> 21:27.980

Tom: That's what I'm thinking may have happened.

21:28.220 --> 21:29.080

Phil: No, no, no.

21:29.120 --> 21:30.920

Phil: I haven't named anyone yet.

21:31.060 --> 21:35.740

Tom: So I think the only solution to this is to be online at the same time.

21:35.880 --> 21:36.860

Phil: OK, yes.

21:37.060 --> 21:39.440

Phil: Possibly with you talking to me, telling me what to do.

21:40.700 --> 21:41.280

Tom: Correct.

21:42.280 --> 21:44.480

Phil: OK, so what's the next game you want to talk about?

21:45.620 --> 22:05.600

Tom: Well, while we're on the topic of racing games, and you did bring up Hot Shot Racing, I recently, and by recently I mean several months ago, if not last year, was playing Horizon Chase Turbo Top Gear on the SNES and Need for Speed Heat.

22:06.400 --> 22:08.540

Tom: And more recently I have tried Hot Shot Racing.

22:08.840 --> 22:19.020

Tom: Now all of those games, except for Need for Speed Heat, are either in the old classic style of arcade racing or are copying it, are they not?

22:19.480 --> 22:20.440

Phil: What was the first one?

22:21.320 --> 22:24.380

Tom: Horizon Chase Turbo was one, another is Hot Shot Racing.

22:25.060 --> 22:30.380

Tom: And one that is not on the surface of it in that style that I played was Need for Speed Heat.

22:31.360 --> 22:34.500

Phil: Yeah, I think I'd say that that's true.

22:34.560 --> 22:57.020

Phil: Like when I'm playing, when I played Hot Shot Racing, and we've got to say this is a game developed by Sumo Digital who, their claim to fame was, well, they started out by doing OutRun 2006, which was the first OutRun game in several decades, or a couple of decades.

22:57.560 --> 23:03.380

Phil: And they've done masterful games like Sonic and Sega All Star Racing and others as well.

23:04.980 --> 23:09.000

Phil: And then the other developer, just to give them credit on this game, was Lucky Mountain Games.

23:09.000 --> 23:16.340

Phil: But when I was first playing it, this struck a chord with me of the N64 racing games.

23:16.360 --> 23:19.420

Phil: The N64 had lots and lots of arcade races.

23:20.800 --> 23:29.560

Phil: Most notably, at least in terms of its popularity, was the Cruzen series, Cruzen the USA, Cruzen the World, Cruzen Exotica.

23:30.540 --> 23:35.400

Phil: Top Gear was also a popular arcade racer.

23:37.040 --> 23:39.200

Tom: Was there a Nintendo 64 version of that?

23:39.480 --> 23:41.660

Phil: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:42.540 --> 23:47.100

Phil: There was two Top Gear games released on the N64, which were quite good.

23:49.560 --> 23:52.520

Phil: And it also had some rally games as well.

23:54.120 --> 23:55.980

Phil: But in terms of arcade races...

23:56.400 --> 23:58.640

Tom: Top Gear Overdrive and Top Gear Rally.

23:58.660 --> 24:01.580

Phil: Yes, I played Top Gear Overdrive a fair bit.

24:02.460 --> 24:05.780

Tom: I have also played that a lot in A Myers.

24:07.480 --> 24:10.260

Tom: And also, I think, Top Gear Rally as well.

24:10.980 --> 24:18.680

Phil: You could unlock a drivable hot dog and a burro as well.

24:18.700 --> 24:23.460

Phil: A burro that had four wheels on its hooves.

24:25.100 --> 24:29.340

Phil: And they had customizable horn sounds as well for those novelty cars.

24:31.000 --> 24:31.720

Phil: You might recall...

24:31.740 --> 24:34.220

Tom: And your cars did explode if you crashed as well.

24:34.460 --> 24:36.400

Phil: Well, of course, what else is a car going to do?

24:37.760 --> 24:40.500

Phil: But when I was playing this...

24:40.820 --> 24:45.300

Tom: And I also think there was a Hummer, which was a viable vehicle in a race.

24:45.360 --> 24:49.580

Phil: Yeah, the Rush series was also very big on the N64.

24:52.080 --> 24:54.680

Phil: Adventure Beetle Racing was another one.

24:56.440 --> 25:05.000

Phil: So when I played this, the fact that it is bringing up so much nostalgia is because obviously they referenced a lot of these games.

25:05.160 --> 25:08.160

Phil: And for you, you have a different field of reference.

25:08.180 --> 25:12.960

Phil: For me, this most closely reminded me of the Cruzen series.

25:14.640 --> 25:16.940

Phil: But we should probably say just a little bit about it.

25:17.200 --> 25:18.940

Phil: It is like Art of Rally.

25:19.140 --> 25:20.940

Tom: Are you referring to Hot Shot Racing here?

25:21.060 --> 25:21.780

Phil: Yeah, I'm sorry.

25:21.800 --> 25:22.200

Phil: Did you want to...

25:22.280 --> 25:27.240

Tom: That is certainly closer to Cruzen rather than Top Gear.

25:27.380 --> 25:27.900

Tom: That is right.

25:27.920 --> 25:28.100

Phil: Yes.

25:28.320 --> 25:28.640

Phil: Yeah.

25:28.720 --> 25:34.460

Tom: But Horizon Chase Turbo is much more in line with Top Gear.

25:35.560 --> 25:36.000

Phil: Okay.

25:36.100 --> 25:36.480

Phil: Okay.

25:36.540 --> 25:37.040

Phil: I get you.

25:40.260 --> 25:56.880

Phil: So I've been attracted to Hot Shot Racing from the second it was announced, not only because it was from Sumo Digital, which has done uniformly great driving games, but also because, you know, there hasn't been a lot of purely arcade games, driving games around.

25:57.640 --> 26:02.940

Phil: And it's playing on nostalgia, but it's also giving you an outlet to play a type of game that doesn't really exist anymore.

26:04.360 --> 26:13.420

Phil: And to me, it reminded me of the Doom demakes, such as last year, my Game of the Year.

26:13.440 --> 26:14.120

Phil: What was it called?

26:15.100 --> 26:15.660

Tom: What was it?

26:15.680 --> 26:16.560

Phil: I played it on Switch.

26:16.700 --> 26:18.640

Phil: It was the Doom demake that you recommended.

26:19.980 --> 26:21.620

Tom: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

26:22.120 --> 26:22.940

Tom: Project Warlock.

26:22.960 --> 26:24.360

Phil: Project Warlock, exactly.

26:24.360 --> 26:28.160

Phil: So this to me is like a Project Warlock for arcade racers.

26:30.220 --> 26:41.720

Phil: And again, no texture, just like the Art of Rally, which has to contribute to its, you know, really great frame rate and speed.

26:43.580 --> 26:48.600

Phil: And obviously, drifting is a big part of it, which wasn't a part of the Cruis'n series.

26:49.520 --> 26:53.140

Tom: And it runs, however, on PC, not very well.

26:53.400 --> 26:53.900

Phil: Oh, really?

26:54.180 --> 26:54.660

Tom: Correct.

26:54.680 --> 27:09.520

Tom: There are, and this is a problem a lot of people have had, occasional inexplicable moments of slowdown, which are certainly not being caused due to the rendering power required.

27:10.340 --> 27:20.020

Phil: Another game that this reminded me of was a game that you probably never played called Speed Devils, which was a Ubisoft game released on the Dreamcast.

27:21.660 --> 27:24.180

Phil: It was outstanding as an arcade racer.

27:24.300 --> 27:30.020

Phil: And the thing that it most reminds me of in this game is the levels.

27:30.580 --> 27:33.860

Phil: The levels are all in these, you know, exotic locations.

27:34.560 --> 27:41.920

Phil: I've got to say Daytona USA on the Saturn is obviously another great reference for this game.

27:43.440 --> 27:46.080

Phil: But enough waxing nostalgic.

27:46.100 --> 27:46.780

Phil: Does it work?

27:46.800 --> 27:48.980

Phil: Does it work as a game?

27:50.580 --> 27:56.500

Phil: Since it came out, I think it's pretty transparent that they're trying to turn this into a service game.

27:57.000 --> 28:03.860

Phil: You know, a game that will never end in the same category as Rocket League.

28:03.860 --> 28:10.060

Phil: It's very clear that they're trying to make this into an online game that's going to have a following.

28:10.080 --> 28:13.440

Phil: And I've got to say, they've added additional modes since it first started.

28:14.240 --> 28:20.340

Phil: The one thing that they haven't appeared to add, and you've played more of this than me, is the car models.

28:20.680 --> 28:25.280

Phil: It appears to be the same original seven or eight characters.

28:25.960 --> 28:28.600

Phil: Have they added any additional cars since the beginning?

28:28.620 --> 28:33.360

Phil: Because I think you start out with an option of four different cars per personality.

28:34.460 --> 28:35.080

Tom: And I think there are...

28:35.200 --> 28:37.560

Tom: Is it four or are there more personalities?

28:37.620 --> 28:38.040

Tom: Well, you...

28:39.080 --> 28:40.900

Phil: More personalities is like eight of them.

28:41.120 --> 28:48.240

Tom: Yeah, so four times eight is a reasonable amount of cars for an arcade game, I would say.

28:48.260 --> 28:52.340

Tom: And it is in fact possible that you have played it more than I have.

28:53.500 --> 29:02.540

Tom: And just for the record, while I have not played Speed Devils, I have played the original Speed Busters that Speed Devils was a port of.

29:04.480 --> 29:04.780

Tom: Yes.

29:04.900 --> 29:06.660

Phil: So did you like that or?

29:08.540 --> 29:14.020

Tom: It was, I have only played it very briefly because when I bought it, it would not run on my PC.

29:14.600 --> 29:33.900

Tom: But I've played it via GOG and still it is, as you described with the locations in the Dreamcast version, I believe they're pretty much the same, very visually appealing in terms of the tracks and cars and the general visual style.

29:33.920 --> 29:45.120

Phil: Yeah, there was a, it was on the Dreamcast and it was one of the games, one of the first games that had multiple different ways to get through the courses.

29:45.780 --> 29:49.000

Phil: There was lots of shortcuts and they were all thematic.

29:49.180 --> 29:59.320

Phil: So, you know, if you're in, they had one that was set in LA that basically drove you through all the major, you know, landmarks of Los Angeles.

29:59.500 --> 30:01.940

Phil: They had one in Mexico that was really great.

30:02.180 --> 30:08.200

Phil: The Mexico one was on a dirt track, I remember, and had completely different physics.

30:08.220 --> 30:13.440

Phil: And, you know, a lot of the great things about these old arcade races was the music and the voice samples.

30:14.000 --> 30:17.620

Phil: And that's something that's been brought over to Hot Shot Racing as well.

30:17.640 --> 30:22.160

Phil: These ridiculous voice samples that come up throughout the game.

30:22.180 --> 30:39.500

Phil: I remember that in Cruisin the World in the Australia level, when kangaroos were running onto the track or jumping around and going on the track, they actually had the sound effect of boing.

30:40.040 --> 30:49.500

Phil: So as the kangaroos moved, they'd go boing, boing, boing, which is something that I still do whenever I see a kangaroo.

30:50.440 --> 30:57.420

Phil: So I'm obviously still not a real Australian, and that's something I've been able to pass on to family members as well, that picked up that thing.

30:58.780 --> 31:09.140

Tom: And for once, the addition of Australian native animals to an Australian setting is accurate, as kangaroos are a regular feature at Bathurst.

31:10.320 --> 31:10.700

Phil: Are they?

31:10.920 --> 31:11.640

Phil: I did not know that.

31:13.880 --> 31:17.740

Phil: This game, like tell me, are all the upgrades cosmetic?

31:19.200 --> 31:20.240

Tom: Well, here's the thing.

31:21.480 --> 31:23.180

Tom: I've played very little of this game.

31:23.200 --> 31:27.000

Tom: This was in fact a comparative analysis between these several games.

31:27.020 --> 31:31.000

Tom: It was the direction this was going in, but we're taking it in another direction again.

31:31.020 --> 31:33.060

Tom: No, we will end up...

31:33.300 --> 31:36.900

Tom: We're taking another brief moment just to appreciate Speedbusters here.

31:38.760 --> 31:40.240

Tom: Slash Speed Devils.

31:40.260 --> 31:51.420

Tom: And I don't know if this was also in Speed Devils, but Speedbusters has one of the greatest live action video game intros of all time.

31:51.440 --> 32:01.920

Tom: Anyone who has not seen that, just look up Speedbusters intro on YouTube and prepare yourself for an entertaining ride.

32:02.140 --> 32:09.840

Phil: I tell you what, I'll just make a note to embed that into our front page for this show.

32:09.860 --> 32:15.560

Tom: Unfortunately, it looks like Speed Devils does not have the same framing or intro.

32:16.260 --> 32:19.200

Phil: No, there's no intro like that, just great music.

32:20.660 --> 32:41.320

Phil: So, you know, I feel terrible because we've spent most of this time just talking about the great games that this game references, but like the big selling point for this game is nostalgia and tapping into what people liked about those old games and basically bring them into the new generation.

32:42.500 --> 32:44.780

Phil: And I think on that level, it completely succeeds.

32:44.800 --> 32:46.140

Phil: I find myself...

32:46.160 --> 32:53.200

Tom: And you missed one clear reference, which is in the visual aesthetic, and that is to Interstate 76.

32:53.220 --> 32:54.180

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah.

32:55.160 --> 32:55.740

Phil: Again, we...

32:56.260 --> 32:59.920

Tom: Not just in the visual aesthetic, but also the character design as well.

33:00.600 --> 33:01.340

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

33:01.360 --> 33:03.060

Phil: And I'd say if you were looking at...

33:03.560 --> 33:06.960

Phil: Like, if you wanted to look at it, if you were to say, okay, what's this game look like?

33:07.300 --> 33:09.760

Phil: I think Daytona USA would be the first reference.

33:09.780 --> 33:15.700

Phil: It just looks like those Saturn games from Sega, like Virtua Fighter and Virtua Cop.

33:16.840 --> 33:21.780

Phil: Obviously, it's much higher fidelity and detail than those, but that's what they evoke.

33:22.520 --> 33:27.100

Tom: I wouldn't say it's higher fidelity than Daytona USA.

33:27.580 --> 33:29.400

Phil: This is, absolutely, yeah.

33:29.700 --> 33:30.540

Tom: I would not say that.

33:30.540 --> 33:31.960

Tom: It's certainly higher detail.

33:32.080 --> 33:32.500

Phil: Okay.

33:34.100 --> 33:36.080

Phil: I'd have to probably do a side by side.

33:37.340 --> 33:40.320

Tom: And arguably, it is not higher detail.

33:40.340 --> 33:45.220

Tom: It depends, certainly not compared to the actual arcade version of Daytona USA.

33:45.900 --> 33:49.280

Phil: Yeah, well, I only ever played the Saturn version, so...

33:49.720 --> 33:50.100

Tom: Okay.

33:50.200 --> 33:51.160

Phil: Yeah, you've got me on that one.

33:53.480 --> 33:55.720

Phil: I think it's a positive game, though.

33:55.740 --> 33:57.640

Phil: I think that I enjoy it.

33:57.660 --> 34:03.060

Phil: It's one of those games where if I'm on Steam and I see it sitting there, I will invariably play it.

34:04.240 --> 34:06.660

Phil: It is an easy game to get in and out of.

34:07.880 --> 34:18.260

Phil: And I think it succeeds, mostly because of its intelligent, you know, taking from other games of the genre and also just tapping into the experience that...

34:20.660 --> 34:25.420

Phil: the experience of the developers in this category.

34:25.480 --> 34:32.820

Phil: I mean, Sumo Digital has never made a bad racing game and certainly they've continued that with this one.

34:33.440 --> 34:34.320

Phil: Did you want to get back to...

34:34.340 --> 34:34.800

Tom: I would agree.

34:34.820 --> 34:37.280

Phil: Did you want to get back to your comparative analysis on this or...

34:37.300 --> 34:37.640

Tom: Yes.

34:38.000 --> 34:38.640

Tom: Yes, I do.

34:39.440 --> 34:49.380

Tom: So you said that it is a racing game in the style of racing games that do not really exist anymore, like, for instance, Project Warlock is to first-person shooters.

34:51.420 --> 34:54.440

Tom: And here is where actually I would disagree entirely.

34:54.940 --> 35:11.440

Tom: This was the interesting thing I noticed playing these games deliberately made in the style of a classic racing game, not too far apart from playing Need for Speed Heat, which is the latest Need for Speed.

35:11.980 --> 35:25.660

Tom: And Need for Speed Heat, in terms of the driving model, is actually very close to the likes of Horizon Chase Turbo and Hot Shot Racing.

35:26.060 --> 35:55.840

Tom: It is, I wouldn't even say more detailed than either of those, but essentially the way the racing works, even if you are not playing as a drift car, drift driving style, sorry, unlike in a slightly more simcade style of racing where there is some semblance of momentum and having to slow down a moving object before turning and that sort of thing.

35:56.620 --> 36:23.420

Tom: Here it is much more in the vein of Mario Kart, for instance, where it is not so much about accelerating a physical object, then slowing it down to be able to turn, then accelerating again, but moving through an environment where to turn, you get friction not through slowing down, but by grabbing hold of the ground and turning that way.

36:23.440 --> 36:44.360

Tom: So as you are going along, it is all about timing where you brake in the corner based on how sharp you want to turn, as opposed to how straight you want to keep your car going without losing as little speed as possible.

36:44.860 --> 36:52.480

Tom: So it's essentially the reverse way in which one approaches a more realistic racing game.

36:53.000 --> 37:18.060

Tom: And it is, other than visually, and the fact that the track is wider than Horizon Chase Turbo on top gear, and that it is a little bit slower than Hot Shot Racing and the difference between the speed of acceleration and slowing down is not as extreme as in Hot Shot Racing as well.

37:18.460 --> 37:23.820

Tom: It fits perfectly into the same category as those games.

37:23.920 --> 37:40.000

Tom: And I would argue, I think, captures better the feeling of a Nintendo 64 racing game in the vein of Cruis'n USA or even the SNES Top Gear.

37:40.360 --> 37:48.280

Tom: And the only other difference is that there is not the checkpoints with a timer counting down.

37:49.220 --> 37:58.300

Tom: However, depending on what the AI level is, there's nevertheless the same degree of pressure to be always having to be consistently fast.

38:00.500 --> 38:13.240

Tom: So I thought it was interesting that there is simultaneously this market for nostalgia, which presents itself as giving you an experience that you cannot get in modern racing games.

38:13.620 --> 38:24.140

Tom: But in modern racing games, for instance Need for Speed Heat, actually the gameplay has changed very, very little since the SNES.

38:25.820 --> 38:34.500

Phil: I've got to say, I've been like, I think a lot of people have probably not touched the Need for Speed series for a while.

38:34.760 --> 38:38.680

Phil: I have my favorite entries in it, which I'll talk about in just a moment.

38:39.380 --> 38:45.320

Phil: But I'm watching video of this, and pardon my French, but this looks fucking awesome.

38:45.540 --> 38:46.420

Phil: This looks great.

38:46.780 --> 38:49.020

Phil: So this is the 2019 Need for Speed.

38:49.040 --> 38:50.500

Phil: Yes.

38:51.220 --> 38:51.760

Phil: It looks great.

38:52.600 --> 38:53.600

Phil: This looks really good.

38:54.760 --> 38:59.980

Tom: It was surprising to me at how enjoyable it was because it is so arcade-y.

39:00.560 --> 39:19.040

Tom: And again, it's like a throwback to even older racing games because arcade racing games have changed over the years, but they've changed in the sense that new versions of them have appeared rather than old ones disappearing.

39:19.240 --> 39:40.900

Tom: That would be how I would read the arcade game market over the years, as opposed to something like first-person shooters where old styles of gameplay did indeed disappear and were completely replaced rather than different styles complementing old-school style first-person shooters.

39:41.300 --> 39:43.440

Tom: But so it is a throwback.

39:44.460 --> 40:02.480

Tom: The problem with Need for Speed is it markets itself as a throwback to Need for Speed, like Hot Pursuit or Need for Speed Underground and those sorts of ones, which are of the generation of racing games after Cruising USA.

40:03.140 --> 40:18.120

Tom: And that era, while there were still games in the very old style, had more elements of momentum in them and usually, I would say, less arcadey feeling tracks.

40:19.280 --> 40:28.520

Tom: Whereas this is not at all like Underground or like those Need for Speeds or Burnout, that sort of era.

40:28.900 --> 40:33.020

Tom: So I think that's where the problem for Need for Speed is.

40:33.360 --> 40:44.320

Tom: I also don't think you could really market Need for Speed as being a racing game in the style of games as old as Top Gear or Cruisin.

40:44.860 --> 40:59.040

Tom: Because the Need for Speed people think of came after that and was actually innovating on those games and building new forms of arcade racing.

40:59.460 --> 41:00.700

Phil: I got a couple of funny things here.

41:00.720 --> 41:06.820

Phil: But first of all, we're talking about Need for Speed Heat, which was released on Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

41:07.120 --> 41:14.880

Phil: When you go to the wiki page for it, the plot section says, This article's plot summary may be too long or excessively detailed.

41:14.900 --> 41:19.420

Phil: Please help improve it by removing unnecessary details and making it more concise.

41:20.620 --> 41:24.780

Phil: Which sounds like my review of Driver San Francisco.

41:26.640 --> 41:27.600

Phil: Which was amazing.

41:27.620 --> 41:29.640

Phil: The story and that was one of the best parts about it.

41:30.700 --> 41:33.440

Tom: It also sounds like the actual plot in the game as well.

41:35.520 --> 41:36.160

Phil: That's great.

41:36.260 --> 41:38.540

Phil: Actually, you know, that'd be great for a review, wouldn't it?

41:38.560 --> 41:43.360

Phil: Now, in terms of how it was reviewed, IGN gave it the highest score of eight.

41:43.380 --> 41:44.640

Phil: Everyone else gave it a seven.

41:45.520 --> 41:46.300

Phil: Seven and a half.

41:46.320 --> 41:48.600

Phil: And that's where it is on Metacritic as well.

41:50.140 --> 41:57.240

Phil: Another interesting note about it, as I was reading here, is that it was the last Need for Speed game made by Ghost Games.

41:57.780 --> 42:04.260

Phil: And they'd been, yeah, they'd been closely tied to the franchise for some time.

42:06.560 --> 42:15.140

Phil: And they've given Need for Speed back to Criterion, which was, you know, there's no one obviously still at Criterion that made Burnout, but I'm sure there's someone is.

42:16.180 --> 42:28.500

Phil: But they made two of my favorite Need for Speeds recently, which was Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2010, which was outstanding, and Need for Speed Most Wanted in 2012.

42:28.880 --> 42:30.380

Phil: Those were, you know, my favorites.

42:33.480 --> 42:36.080

Phil: And the closest to the original Burnout games.

42:36.500 --> 42:38.080

Phil: I thought they were absolutely great.

42:39.020 --> 42:42.200

Phil: So not only did they kick Ghost Games off of the franchise.

42:43.000 --> 43:10.380

Tom: That just reminds me though, one last interesting thing on the evolution of racing games is the Burnout era of arcade racing followed on from Wipeout, where it became about maintaining as much momentum and speed as he could rather than any sort of slowing down for corners to be able to turn at a certain degree.

43:10.400 --> 43:14.540

Phil: You're talking about Wipeout, the video game, not the TV game show.

43:14.920 --> 43:15.520

Tom: Correct.

43:15.540 --> 43:22.200

Phil: Because it also applies to that, which is keeping your momentum, not slowing down, is the key, especially on the punching wall.

43:22.600 --> 43:23.340

Phil: You know the wall...

43:23.360 --> 43:24.460

Tom: You know from experience.

43:24.480 --> 43:25.140

Phil: Well, you know the wall.

43:25.160 --> 43:26.860

Phil: It's got the punching things that come out of it.

43:26.960 --> 43:27.400

Tom: Yes.

43:27.420 --> 43:28.200

Phil: They fall into the mud.

43:28.220 --> 43:29.800

Phil: The key there is either to take...

43:30.000 --> 43:31.000

Phil: Just take a...

43:31.400 --> 43:34.840

Phil: I don't know why people don't go straight into the mud and just run across the mud.

43:35.180 --> 43:42.500

Phil: But if you are going to take the high road and keep out of the mud, so to speak, basically go as fast as you can and keep your momentum.

43:42.560 --> 43:44.860

Phil: And that's true on the big balls as well.

43:46.080 --> 43:47.460

Phil: You know, you've just got to keep going.

43:49.400 --> 44:00.080

Phil: But back to my point, not only did they take them off the franchise, they reduced Ghost Games to an engineering studio for the Frostbite engine.

44:00.100 --> 44:03.340

Phil: I mean, if that's not enough, they took their name off them.

44:05.000 --> 44:09.980

Phil: They took Ghost Games' name off them and called them back to their original name EA Gothenburg.

44:11.740 --> 44:13.360

Phil: That's not nice.

44:13.960 --> 44:15.260

Phil: That's not a very nice thing to do.

44:15.280 --> 44:18.160

Tom: Well, it is EA, so...

44:18.180 --> 44:18.980

Phil: Well, it is EA.

44:19.660 --> 44:21.100

Tom: They may have got off lucky there.

44:22.160 --> 44:26.960

Phil: I've talked to you and our listeners before about Jason Schreier's book.

44:27.260 --> 44:30.200

Phil: I think it's called Sweat, Blood and Pixels, which is a really...

44:30.220 --> 44:33.080

Tom: I thought it was called Stay Out of the Mud and Take the High Road.

44:33.120 --> 44:36.020

Phil: Stay Out of the Mud and Take the High Road.

44:36.040 --> 44:37.560

Phil: Sweat, Blood and Pixels.

44:37.580 --> 44:41.760

Phil: I just finished reading the sequel to that, which I thoroughly recommend.

44:42.660 --> 44:47.080

Phil: If you listen to this podcast, you're probably going to be interested enough to read that book as well.

44:47.800 --> 44:56.240

Phil: It also talks about the foibles of game development, but most notably the downfalls of it as well.

44:56.340 --> 44:58.320

Phil: It's still an interesting read.

44:59.000 --> 45:04.320

Phil: What I particularly did not enjoy about it is that the last chapter turns into a complete editorial.

45:04.700 --> 45:12.920

Phil: So it goes from basically straight reportage to the last chapter switching to it.

45:13.120 --> 45:17.720

Phil: Here's how we should fix the whole video game industry.

45:17.980 --> 45:19.160

Phil: We need to unionize.

45:19.580 --> 45:20.540

Phil: We need to do this.

45:20.560 --> 45:21.280

Phil: We need to do that.

45:21.500 --> 45:23.040

Phil: It's like, what are you doing?

45:23.540 --> 45:24.400

Phil: What are you doing?

45:24.800 --> 45:26.540

Phil: I mean, you're a writer.

45:27.480 --> 45:29.060

Phil: That can't work, right?

45:29.520 --> 45:41.000

Phil: Or could this conglomeration actually be a good form of writing, where you go straight from direct reportage into editorial?

45:41.440 --> 45:41.940

Phil: I don't know.

45:42.260 --> 45:44.160

Phil: I did not appreciate it at all.

45:44.420 --> 45:45.440

Phil: I thought it was weird.

45:45.740 --> 45:48.600

Tom: It certainly could be if you're not Jason Schreier.

45:48.920 --> 45:49.280

Phil: Yeah.

45:49.680 --> 45:50.080

Phil: I think...

45:50.100 --> 45:52.840

Tom: I think that is the main issue there.

45:52.920 --> 45:54.480

Phil: If you had it as a...

45:55.300 --> 45:59.640

Tom: And I cannot imagine reading a Jason Schreier book, I have to say.

45:59.940 --> 46:02.880

Phil: It's got a lot of juicy details in it.

46:02.900 --> 46:03.740

Phil: That's why I read it.

46:04.640 --> 46:09.360

Tom: Well, I'm sure it has a lot of details in it, but the question is how many of them are juicy.

46:11.220 --> 46:12.680

Phil: What's the opposite of an epilogue?

46:13.220 --> 46:13.780

Phil: Prologue.

46:15.580 --> 46:15.920

Tom: Yes.

46:16.200 --> 46:18.880

Tom: I'm not sure we would call it the opposite of one.

46:20.340 --> 46:22.480

Phil: It is the opposite.

46:23.220 --> 46:24.180

Phil: I think if it...

46:24.760 --> 46:27.980

Tom: Or would the opposite of an epilogue be having nothing at the end?

46:29.280 --> 46:30.760

Tom: That's what you have to wonder, you see.

46:30.780 --> 46:36.740

Phil: I think if he had just included it as that, like, OK, the book's over, now here's what I've got to say.

46:38.080 --> 46:39.680

Phil: I would have appreciated that a lot more.

46:41.680 --> 46:45.440

Tom: I'm just saying that's exactly what I would have expected from Jason Schreier.

46:46.360 --> 46:48.480

Tom: Not the content of it, just the...

46:50.640 --> 46:51.900

Tom: Again, this could...

46:52.020 --> 47:02.840

Tom: This can work if the person is a good writer, but random obnoxious structure is basically Jason Schreier's entire schtick.

47:03.820 --> 47:04.920

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

47:04.980 --> 47:12.560

Tom: I give him full credit for his content, but the way he presents it is just totally unreadable.

47:14.300 --> 47:19.260

Phil: I think, too, at this point, he's become bigger...

47:19.280 --> 47:20.600

Phil: He is Jason Schreier.

47:20.740 --> 47:31.040

Phil: So if you've got dirt on a developer, or you want to get a message out, he's the one that you go to, so it's kind of become a self-perpetuating...

47:32.240 --> 47:35.960

Tom: I just have to ask you, though, because you have mentioned...

47:35.980 --> 47:53.260

Tom: I don't know if it's on the podcast, I don't know if this has been brought up on the podcast, but you have told me numerous times in the past, so I assume that this has some sort of significance, if anyone is familiar with American culture, but you have told me that you have read The Atlantic on various occasions.

47:54.180 --> 47:56.600

Tom: Yes, as opposed to The New York Times.

48:00.240 --> 48:05.740

Phil: The Atlantic is now owned by Steve Jobs' wife.

48:05.760 --> 48:15.260

Phil: I can't vouch for it, because I used to be a subscriber and get the monthly magazine.

48:15.700 --> 48:16.660

Phil: It was wonderful.

48:17.940 --> 48:25.420

Phil: It had a good investigative journalist type thing, but also had some good fiction and short stories in it as well.

48:27.420 --> 48:31.320

Phil: I thought it was a good place to promote writing.

48:32.640 --> 48:33.940

Phil: I can't speak to it now.

48:34.200 --> 48:35.120

Phil: The New Yorker...

48:36.540 --> 48:38.580

Phil: I never really got what the New Yorker was.

48:40.520 --> 48:43.220

Phil: I don't think I could draw a comparison between the two.

48:44.040 --> 48:47.140

Tom: I think it's meant to be the same thing, just for different sensibilities.

48:47.580 --> 48:48.400

Phil: Yeah, maybe.

48:48.500 --> 48:48.960

Phil: I don't know.

48:49.180 --> 48:50.060

Phil: Anyway, wait.

48:50.100 --> 48:50.700

Phil: What's your point?

48:51.700 --> 49:05.520

Tom: My point is here, that Jason Schreier's writing is pure Atlantic essay style, including their investigative journalism.

49:05.860 --> 49:25.240

Tom: And it's actually a pretty common thing in American journalism that I've read anyway, where you will have a long, bloated investigation being reported that ends with an editorial telling you how to fix all of these problems that you discovered.

49:25.260 --> 49:27.220

Phil: Yeah, like Upton Sinclair, for example.

49:27.360 --> 49:31.260

Phil: So maybe it's the rich history of North East journalism.

49:31.260 --> 49:40.840

Tom: But see, the problem is simply Jason Schreier, is what I'm trying to get at here, is that it is obnoxious and jarring due to his writing ability.

49:41.120 --> 49:42.440

Phil: Okay, fair enough.

49:42.500 --> 49:42.820

Tom: Yes.

49:42.960 --> 49:46.760

Phil: But I think that the issue he has is he's a one trick pony.

49:48.500 --> 49:50.160

Phil: It's with one note at this point.

49:51.540 --> 50:10.940

Phil: And with The Atlantic, certainly it got to that way at times, where it was just basically like the ACLU, which I'm a big supporter of the ACLU, which American Civil Liberties Union, basically they fight for crazies on both extremes.

50:10.960 --> 50:12.140

Tom: Have they unionized?

50:13.900 --> 50:14.740

Phil: I don't think so.

50:15.260 --> 50:16.300

Tom: They are called a union.

50:17.300 --> 50:20.980

Phil: The name of the book is Press Reset, I should say.

50:21.800 --> 50:29.940

Phil: And I think that if you want to get some juicy, you know, insights into some major games and their development.

50:29.960 --> 50:41.660

Tom: I also believe that that was what PewDiePie was going to donate to after one of his anti-Semitic comments, until someone pointed out that they defend people against anti-Semitism, I think.

50:41.680 --> 50:43.020

Phil: Oh, and then he didn't?

50:43.920 --> 50:44.460

Tom: That's right.

50:44.480 --> 50:47.880

Phil: Okay, American Civil Liberties Union, aclu.org.

50:47.900 --> 50:48.460

Phil: Check them out.

50:48.480 --> 50:49.460

Phil: Make your own decision.

50:50.560 --> 50:53.340

Phil: Now, I don't know how we got on to Jason Schreier.

50:53.740 --> 50:54.720

Tom: Do your own research.

50:54.920 --> 50:57.380

Phil: Do your own research.

50:57.800 --> 50:59.000

Phil: I don't know how we got on to that.

50:59.020 --> 51:10.580

Phil: We were talking about Need for Speed Heat and also then talking about how my favorite Need for Speeds had been made by the criterion named Studio, Hot Pursuit and Most Wanted.

51:11.360 --> 51:15.600

Phil: But if you could please continue with your comparative analysis and how this all applied.

51:15.620 --> 51:48.340

Tom: I think that was probably the end of the comparative analysis, just simply that it was interesting that as part of the whole nostalgia craze that has been going on over the past 10 years to 20 years, it has now reached the genre of racing games where arcade racing games in a variety of old styles still exist and are made as entirely new games with modern aesthetics and sensibilities.

51:49.140 --> 52:11.220

Tom: And so it's understandable that they exist, that Hot Shot Racing exists, and that Horizon Chase Turbo exists as an aesthetic throwback, but as a gameplay throwback in terms of the actual gameplay, I think they are merely a competitor for the likes of Need for Speed Heat rather than games doing something different.

52:11.240 --> 52:13.140

Phil: Okay, fair enough.

52:13.920 --> 52:25.900

Tom: And of them all, I would argue that Need for Speed Heat captures the feeling and excitement of Top Gear or Cruisin better than the throwback games do.

52:25.920 --> 52:35.440

Phil: I've got to say on those throwback games, I recently put in Top Gear and also the Cruisin series for reasons I don't understand.

52:36.180 --> 52:40.180

Phil: They do actually hold up and that's probably no surprise to you, I don't know.

52:41.320 --> 52:42.240

Tom: Well, not at all.

52:42.260 --> 52:52.600

Tom: At least in terms of Top Gear, as I said, I was actually playing that on the SNES around the same time and it was still very enjoyable today.

52:52.620 --> 52:59.260

Tom: And it probably should not be too much of a surprise given the simplicity of the gameplay.

53:00.520 --> 53:06.820

Phil: I think before we get to The Last Stop, which is a game that you've been playing...

53:07.780 --> 53:20.840

Tom: It is, and before we do any of that, and then we are going to go directly into The Last Stop, I'll have to interrupt you there for our much delayed ASMR food test.

53:20.940 --> 53:21.440

Phil: Oh God.

53:21.820 --> 53:26.200

Tom: And this time you will be pleased to know that it is in fact a vegan dish.

53:26.560 --> 53:26.920

Phil: Good.

53:28.200 --> 53:34.580

Tom: It is a vegan fish, fried fish, from a shop called Hunky Dory.

53:35.600 --> 53:40.320

Tom: And I've never tried vegan fish before.

53:40.580 --> 53:50.820

Tom: I've tried vegan beef based, not based, beef inspired products, chicken inspired products and pork inspired products, but not fish.

53:50.840 --> 53:52.500

Tom: What is your experience with vegan fish?

53:52.560 --> 53:57.460

Phil: And when you talk about vegan fish, you're not talking about fish that don't eat animal products.

53:58.680 --> 53:58.940

Tom: No.

53:58.960 --> 54:00.420

Phil: Okay, you're talking...

54:00.500 --> 54:01.260

Tom: I'm speaking of a...

54:01.280 --> 54:01.840

Tom: A simulator.

54:02.640 --> 54:03.100

Tom: That's right.

54:03.880 --> 54:10.920

Phil: My experience with vegan fish would be limited to the candy Swedish fish, which is a vegan gummy.

54:12.260 --> 54:18.500

Phil: It's a pretty poor substitute for a gummy, but it is still vegan, which basically describes all of your choices as a vegan.

54:19.660 --> 54:23.100

Phil: Which is it's not as good as the real thing, but hey, it's vegan.

54:23.440 --> 54:31.400

Tom: I think with Swedish fish, though, that offers an interesting alternative, because this probably goes with most vegan food, actually.

54:31.480 --> 54:45.820

Tom: It is very much its own thing that is not like a standard gummy, where it is very hard and chewy, and you don't really get any sort of flavour until it has been well mashed up by your teeth.

54:46.120 --> 54:49.120

Phil: Oh, I wouldn't be that harsh on the old Swedish fish.

54:49.960 --> 55:07.040

Tom: No, but that's a good thing that is in contrast to a standard gummy, because you then get this sudden burst of flavour out of nowhere that you can then enjoy during the rest of the mouthful, rather than a gradual, consistent release that you get in a standard gummy.

55:07.060 --> 55:10.120

Phil: I've got to say, too, that I'm not an ethical vegan.

55:10.340 --> 55:12.160

Phil: I am a dietary vegan.

55:12.280 --> 55:14.560

Tom: You're a very unethical vegan.

55:14.580 --> 55:24.180

Phil: Yeah, so apparently being an ethical vegan is one of the ways you get out of getting the vaccine because it was tested on animals.

55:24.460 --> 55:26.620

Phil: So I did not know that.

55:28.020 --> 55:30.000

Phil: But I am not an ethical vegan.

55:30.080 --> 55:34.860

Phil: I don't eat meat and animal products based on ethics alone.

55:35.740 --> 55:38.380

Phil: It's mostly because I don't like meat.

55:38.420 --> 55:39.520

Phil: I don't like eating meat.

55:39.540 --> 55:41.980

Phil: I've never really appreciated the flavors.

55:42.000 --> 55:43.020

Phil: I don't like the texture.

55:43.900 --> 55:46.480

Phil: And then the concepts usually gross me out as well.

55:46.480 --> 55:48.420

Phil: Just knowing where that stuff comes from.

55:48.820 --> 55:53.760

Phil: I'm like, I don't want to eat it, you know, like eggs and milk and things like that.

55:54.000 --> 55:59.340

Phil: I just think it's conceptually, I guess I'm a conceptual vegan.

56:00.180 --> 56:06.620

Phil: Because I just don't, I don't want to drink milk that's coming out of another thing, you know, or anything.

56:06.820 --> 56:08.280

Tom: What do you want your milk to come out of?

56:08.300 --> 56:09.960

Phil: I don't want my milk to come out of anything.

56:09.960 --> 56:10.840

Phil: I don't want to drink it.

56:10.860 --> 56:14.800

Phil: I want my milk to come out of a soybean or an almond is where I want my milk.

56:15.620 --> 56:17.160

Tom: Well, that is coming out of something.

56:17.180 --> 56:23.680

Phil: Yeah, I've heard that described as nutsap, almond milk.

56:24.640 --> 56:27.020

Phil: So, but no, I don't like that.

56:27.040 --> 56:31.980

Phil: So, for me, like I have never liked fish, ever.

56:32.120 --> 56:37.720

Phil: As a child, I never liked fish, I never liked crab, I never liked prawns, I don't like any of it.

56:38.760 --> 56:45.080

Tom: You can really tell with the disdain in his voice there just how much he hates animals, confirming he is not an ethical vegan.

56:45.100 --> 56:45.800

Phil: An ethical vegan.

56:48.080 --> 56:51.440

Phil: I'm a vegan of convenience, you could say.

56:51.440 --> 56:52.260

Phil: But no, I...

56:52.520 --> 56:54.100

Tom: I think I prefer conceptual vegan.

56:54.240 --> 57:04.340

Phil: If someone were to make me a McFish, like a fillet of fish, which is apparently popular for old people at McDonald's, I wouldn't want it.

57:04.400 --> 57:05.220

Phil: I just wouldn't want it.

57:05.240 --> 57:06.360

Phil: I would have no interest in it.

57:06.940 --> 57:12.040

Phil: I would be more likely if someone came up to me and said, here's some crocodile meat.

57:12.340 --> 57:13.440

Phil: Would you like to try it?

57:14.580 --> 57:16.560

Phil: Even though I'm a vegan, I'd probably go, you know what?

57:16.640 --> 57:17.660

Phil: Yeah, I'll give it a try.

57:17.680 --> 57:19.060

Phil: I've never had crocodile meat.

57:19.220 --> 57:20.240

Phil: It could be a good story.

57:20.380 --> 57:28.980

Phil: I will try a small amount of crocodile meat just so I know what it tastes like if it comes up that I have to eat it out of necessity.

57:30.260 --> 57:36.500

Phil: But if someone came up to me and said, here's a fake fillet of fish, yeah, I would not eat it.

57:37.160 --> 57:38.480

Phil: I just would not eat it because I don't like fish.

57:39.160 --> 57:44.840

Phil: Now, I know that you like fish because you're eating flake or booty, flake booty.

57:45.680 --> 57:46.260

Tom: That's right.

57:47.320 --> 57:48.300

Phil: As it's called in India.

57:50.160 --> 57:51.160

Tom: But England.

57:51.700 --> 57:52.800

Phil: England, okay.

57:53.020 --> 57:53.400

Tom: Yes.

57:53.660 --> 57:57.580

Phil: Okay, so yeah, so does that answer your question about fish?

57:58.560 --> 58:02.980

Tom: Well, I will add that you are a pro-meat vegan.

58:03.700 --> 58:06.240

Tom: I am a pro-vegan meat eater.

58:06.260 --> 58:10.820

Tom: So I will say that vegans are ethically superior to non-vegans.

58:11.520 --> 58:12.420

Tom: But I eat meat.

58:13.380 --> 58:18.720

Tom: While you will say vegans are not ethically superior to vegans, but you do not eat meat.

58:18.740 --> 58:19.460

Phil: I think that...

58:19.480 --> 58:20.380

Tom: So together...

58:20.580 --> 58:21.340

Phil: We balance out.

58:22.100 --> 58:22.840

Tom: We balance out.

58:22.860 --> 58:26.920

Phil: Yeah, we're the yin and yang of vegan.

58:26.940 --> 58:28.680

Tom: Of failed ideals.

58:28.700 --> 58:28.960

Phil: Yes.

58:30.180 --> 58:34.060

Phil: But I would say that are vegans ethically superior to non-vegans?

58:35.460 --> 58:36.920

Phil: Ah, yes, I would say that they are.

58:39.380 --> 58:47.120

Tom: It depends though on what your belief on the agency and feelings of plants are.

58:49.340 --> 58:50.660

Phil: That's a topic for another day, Tom.

58:50.860 --> 58:53.360

Phil: So, okay, so you ate this fake fillet of fish.

58:53.960 --> 58:55.920

Tom: Well, I'm about to do it now live on air.

58:55.940 --> 58:56.240

Phil: Oh, okay.

58:56.960 --> 58:58.900

Phil: He's fishing for compliments, people.

59:00.140 --> 59:01.600

Phil: So, what would you call fake fish?

59:04.020 --> 59:08.000

Phil: I don't know if he's actually eating it now or if he's taking a break.

59:08.000 --> 59:10.080

Tom: I just took the first bite.

59:12.520 --> 59:14.560

Tom: Let's say it doesn't really taste anything like fish.

59:16.960 --> 59:22.660

Tom: The patty part of it has a texture that is perhaps somewhere between a white fish and chicken.

59:23.860 --> 59:31.920

Tom: The flavour is, I think, more in line with, say, a frozen chicken nugget than anything to do with fish.

59:32.860 --> 59:43.240

Tom: The very edge of the patty and the batter, I think, has the texture and a little bit of the taste of a frozen fish finger that has been toasted, though.

59:44.020 --> 59:45.180

Tom: So that is slightly fishy.

59:45.740 --> 59:48.480

Tom: I'm now going to add a lemon juice to it and try again.

59:48.500 --> 59:52.740

Phil: Did the lemon come from, um, what's the name of it, Hey, Djibouti?

59:52.760 --> 59:53.660

Phil: What's the place called?

59:54.060 --> 59:54.960

Tom: Honky Dory.

59:55.240 --> 59:56.960

Phil: Did the lemon come from Honky Dory?

59:57.080 --> 59:57.640

Tom: Yes, it did.

59:57.660 --> 59:58.040

Phil: That's nice.

59:58.060 --> 01:00.760

Phil: That's very nice.

01:02.760 --> 01:04.320

Phil: Did they give you a vinegar option?

01:05.360 --> 01:05.980

Tom: No, they did not.

01:06.000 --> 01:09.360

Phil: Would you eat balsamic vinegar with a fried fish product?

01:10.660 --> 01:11.320

Tom: Yes, I would.

01:11.340 --> 01:14.760

Tom: And that used to be a common thing that was offered at fish and chip shops.

01:14.780 --> 01:15.400

Phil: Balsamic vinegar?

01:16.380 --> 01:16.680

Tom: Yes.

01:16.700 --> 01:17.300

Phil: I did not know that.

01:17.520 --> 01:21.540

Tom: But, but that is, I don't know if balsamic vinegar, but vinegar in general.

01:21.560 --> 01:22.580

Phil: Oh, vinegar, yes, yes.

01:22.780 --> 01:23.040

Tom: Yeah.

01:23.640 --> 01:26.380

Tom: But that seems to be quite rare today in fish and chip shops.

01:26.400 --> 01:30.160

Phil: Well, they cut costs, you know, I mean, you have to buy the little tomato sauce sachets.

01:30.180 --> 01:31.240

Phil: Now those used to be free.

01:32.400 --> 01:32.700

Tom: Yep.

01:33.180 --> 01:45.940

Tom: So the second bite with the lemon juice on it, I think perhaps just due to the association between fish and lemon juice, does actually give it a slightly more fishy flavour to it.

01:47.020 --> 01:01:03.360

Tom: So I think if you bought this and added lemon juice to it, I think it does make for a satisfactory fake fish product and I think in terms of the protein you're getting from it, it's probably higher than in a standard fish of the same size.

01:01:03.380 --> 01:01:04.960

Phil: And most likely less mercury too.

01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:08.740

Tom: Yes, but also less fatty acids.

01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:11.460

Phil: But the associated flavours thing, that certainly works.

01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:26.380

Phil: I know that in my experience with serving tofu scramble, which is basically like scrambled eggs made out of tofu, if you put on pepper and salt and tomato sauce slash ketchup, it really sells it.

01:01:26.740 --> 01:01:30.420

Phil: You know, then people are like, oh yeah, this really is just like scrambled eggs.

01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:32.180

Phil: It's like, no, it's just all the shit you put on it.

01:01:32.240 --> 01:01:34.240

Phil: It's just like the stuff you put on scrambled eggs.

01:01:36.240 --> 01:01:36.900

Phil: So yeah.

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:43.180

Phil: Okay, so is that a thumbs, it sounds like probably not a repeat buy for Tom Towers.

01:01:45.140 --> 01:01:49.480

Tom: Solely because if I'm buying something from the chip shop, I'm doing it to get fish.

01:01:50.680 --> 01:01:53.100

Tom: But I would certainly eat that again for sure.

01:01:53.120 --> 01:01:57.340

Tom: So it would be a repeat eat, if not a repeat buy.

01:01:57.380 --> 01:01:58.160

Phil: Repeat eat.

01:01:59.100 --> 01:02:04.920

Phil: Speaking of repeat eats, I've got to say, this has been on the list for quite some time and I just want to cross it off.

01:02:06.200 --> 01:02:07.500

Phil: Giant bombed at gone.

01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:18.600

Phil: So you might recall from me several months ago that half the crew, well, most of the personalities associated with the site quit or were rousted.

01:02:20.380 --> 01:02:25.280

Phil: And it was kind of like, oh my gosh, you know, what's going to go on, you know, with giant bomb?

01:02:25.860 --> 01:02:32.620

Phil: Because I've got to say, there's less and less video game podcasts out there and giant bomb is, you know, the...

01:02:32.820 --> 01:02:34.660

Tom: Our strategy is simply to be the last one left.

01:02:34.680 --> 01:02:35.820

Phil: The last one standing, right.

01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:40.940

Phil: There, I mean, there are less and less choices for video game podcasts.

01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:42.880

Phil: It's quite poor, really.

01:02:45.020 --> 01:02:49.060

Phil: Whereas, you know, podcasting has gotten bigger in every other sense in video game.

01:02:49.080 --> 01:02:56.700

Phil: It's just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk, probably because all of that audience has gone over to Twitch and in that form of, you know, content.

01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:07.960

Phil: So they had this big old podcast where they're saying goodbye to all the guys that they just fired and yeah, you know, oh, it's going to be tough.

01:03:08.080 --> 01:03:19.880

Phil: And on that podcast, two things stood out to me, one that there was one of the four people that left that said, hey, you know, just so everyone knows, this was my choice to leave.

01:03:20.640 --> 01:03:24.500

Phil: And the other three didn't say that, which was telling to me.

01:03:25.120 --> 01:03:33.480

Phil: And you know, it's it's the sort of thing it was like, oh, yeah, well, of course, you know, you know, and I just want to make clear that this is also my choice to leave.

01:03:33.500 --> 01:03:35.240

Phil: But you know, none of the others said that.

01:03:36.260 --> 01:03:40.800

Phil: So it's pretty clear that they got fired or laid off rather is more appropriate.

01:03:41.900 --> 01:03:46.440

Phil: And they had this this big long podcast about, oh, yeah, don't know what we're going to do without you guys.

01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:49.860

Phil: But obviously, we're going to have to change direction and everything else.

01:03:50.580 --> 01:03:58.140

Phil: And Giant Bomb had, you know, become increasingly woke, you know, with in terms of the personalities that they were showcasing.

01:03:59.220 --> 01:04:05.480

Phil: And it was also of note that none of the people left had anything kind to say about Jeff Gerstmann.

01:04:06.380 --> 01:04:07.260

Phil: Interesting.

01:04:07.500 --> 01:04:22.580

Phil: And at one point, one of the people leaving went out of their way to thank Jeff Bacalar, who was basically only very recently introduced to the Games Group for the company that they work for and say, yeah, since Jeff...

01:04:22.600 --> 01:04:23.980

Tom: Was he just called Jeff Bacalar?

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:25.500

Phil: No, Jeff Bacalar.

01:04:28.100 --> 01:04:29.620

Phil: He's not a Greek confectionary.

01:04:32.660 --> 01:04:42.300

Phil: So and he like they went out of their way to thank him for everything he had done since he had joined the group and the support that they've gotten since he came on.

01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:45.760

Phil: So, you know, all that was interesting.

01:04:46.580 --> 01:04:49.560

Phil: And then I thought, okay, they're going to do a complete switch.

01:04:49.580 --> 01:05:01.020

Phil: Like, you know, everyone thought, oh, they're going to go to like a multi channel, you know, bring in new influences, diversify everything so that they have more people talking.

01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:11.740

Phil: And then the old crew will take a back seat to the editorial and just basically be directing the company, but they're going to make it newer and, you know, have all these younger people on and do all this stuff.

01:05:12.520 --> 01:05:23.760

Phil: On the very next episode, they basically announced, yeah, we've hired Danny, Danny O'Dwyer, which, you know, you've been a supporter of Danny Doherty's work for longer than I have.

01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:27.060

Tom: He is a visionary tourism.

01:05:27.080 --> 01:05:29.240

Phil: A way of getting money from tourist agencies.

01:05:29.260 --> 01:05:31.860

Tom: He's even more impressive than Scott Morrison.

01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:36.000

Phil: Yes, or Crocodile Dundee in terms of getting people to go to countries.

01:05:36.020 --> 01:05:38.840

Tom: Those are probably the top three advertisers of all time.

01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:44.100

Tom: Scott Morrison, ScoMo, Crocodile Dundee and Danny O'Dwyer.

01:05:44.120 --> 01:05:48.200

Phil: Our current Prime Minister, and people must be wondering what's wrong with Australia.

01:05:48.220 --> 01:05:50.100

Phil: We've had the same Prime Minister for like two years now.

01:05:53.260 --> 01:05:59.380

Phil: But yeah, his way of attracting tourists to Australia is basically close the borders entirely in both directions.

01:06:01.180 --> 01:06:14.860

Phil: I drive to a city that's nearby to me about once a month, and they have this old rusted bulldozer in their front yard of a farm, and it has a sign on it that says not for sale, right?

01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:21.400

Phil: I can't believe how much interest that must draw to that bulldozer, right?

01:06:21.700 --> 01:06:29.720

Phil: And I was like, one of these days, they're going to take the knot off there, and they're going to sell this thing in like 30 minutes, because every time you drive by it, it says not for sale, not for sale.

01:06:29.740 --> 01:06:30.220

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:30.780 --> 01:06:33.920

Phil: So one day I drive by and the knot is not on there.

01:06:33.940 --> 01:06:34.920

Phil: It just says for sale.

01:06:35.100 --> 01:06:37.640

Phil: I'm like, holy hell, the bulldozer.

01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:39.160

Phil: I could go buy that bulldozer.

01:06:39.180 --> 01:06:42.980

Phil: So it turns out that the knot part had just fallen off.

01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:53.760

Phil: So it just tickles me that like, you know, because they wouldn't have known that the knot part had fallen off or folded over, right?

01:06:54.100 --> 01:06:59.580

Phil: So like they must have been inundated by people stopping their vehicle going, well, how much do you want for the bulldozer?

01:07:00.700 --> 01:07:04.480

Phil: You know, and then being angered because they had not taken.

01:07:07.180 --> 01:07:10.880

Phil: And all of a sudden they're inundated with people wanting to buy the bulldozer.

01:07:11.860 --> 01:07:15.980

Phil: So the next time I drove by there, they had a new not for sale sign on it.

01:07:16.980 --> 01:07:18.320

Phil: So the bulldozer is still there.

01:07:18.340 --> 01:07:26.340

Phil: That is Scott Morrison's advertising tactic for Australia is that basically you can't come here.

01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:27.980

Phil: No, I don't care.

01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:28.900

Phil: You can't come here.

01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:29.460

Phil: I don't care.

01:07:29.700 --> 01:07:30.920

Phil: I'm an Australian citizen.

01:07:30.940 --> 01:07:32.000

Phil: There's 80,000 of us.

01:07:32.020 --> 01:07:32.940

Phil: I'm dying in India.

01:07:33.260 --> 01:07:39.600

Phil: If you come here, we'll put you in jail and we'll fine you $12,000, but I want to come home.

01:07:39.620 --> 01:07:41.080

Phil: You can't come in.

01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:44.520

Phil: And I think, you know, it's got to be working.

01:07:45.260 --> 01:07:46.640

Phil: People have got to be wanting to come in.

01:07:46.660 --> 01:07:50.960

Phil: I mean, look at all the celebrities that are flying in on their own jets, you know, getting around it.

01:07:52.100 --> 01:07:54.360

Tom: So he truly is a marketing genius after all.

01:07:54.380 --> 01:07:54.860

Phil: After all.

01:07:55.180 --> 01:07:57.000

Phil: It's the bulldozer nut for sale tactic.

01:07:58.560 --> 01:07:59.140

Tom: The classic.

01:07:59.160 --> 01:07:59.620

Phil: The classic.

01:07:59.640 --> 01:08:00.640

Tom: From Edward Bernays.

01:08:02.260 --> 01:08:03.480

Phil: What were we talking about anyway?

01:08:03.520 --> 01:08:04.460

Phil: Oh, so anyway.

01:08:05.180 --> 01:08:13.700

Phil: So then they come back on the very next podcast after all of this self-flagellation and, oh my God, what are we going to do without you guys and all the rest of it?

01:08:14.020 --> 01:08:16.180

Phil: And they're like, OK, yeah, we've hired Denny O'Dwyer.

01:08:17.020 --> 01:08:29.640

Phil: And we're also bringing in Jeff Green, who is apparently the only older, whiter, more male person that they didn't have on staff already.

01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:36.140

Phil: And then we're bringing back Dan, whatever his name was, who was there.

01:08:37.340 --> 01:08:45.080

Phil: And they basically announced that they're bringing back all of their friends who are all middle-aged white guys, which is fine.

01:08:45.100 --> 01:08:47.240

Phil: I mean, they can run the business however they want.

01:08:48.500 --> 01:08:59.880

Phil: But it was just so funny because, you know, they'd been going in this direction of diversifying their staff for so long, and now they're all a bunch of middle-aged white guys and good on them.

01:08:59.940 --> 01:09:05.740

Phil: You know, I mean, you know, I think basically their strategy now is to put more things behind a paywall.

01:09:06.180 --> 01:09:14.060

Phil: And I've got to say they do have one Filipino-American working for them before someone sends me a, you know, thing saying, no, no, no, there is diversity there, so.

01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:16.800

Tom: But only one.

01:09:17.120 --> 01:09:17.700

Phil: Yeah, one.

01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:18.220

Tom: Yeah.

01:09:18.700 --> 01:09:22.500

Tom: You need to get at least two just so you don't get accused of token.

01:09:22.520 --> 01:09:28.440

Phil: Well, there's no gender mix, you know, there's no trans on staff, you know.

01:09:29.260 --> 01:09:30.340

Phil: They used to have a lesbian.

01:09:30.360 --> 01:09:31.780

Phil: They don't have a lesbian anymore.

01:09:32.320 --> 01:09:32.900

Phil: They used to have a...

01:09:33.160 --> 01:09:34.420

Tom: How come they don't have a lesbian?

01:09:34.620 --> 01:09:35.240

Phil: I don't know.

01:09:35.260 --> 01:09:39.400

Phil: I mean, we haven't had a lesbian, but obviously that's why we're being held back.

01:09:41.620 --> 01:09:45.100

Phil: We tried to have a lesbian, you know, I think...

01:09:45.300 --> 01:09:47.720

Tom: But unfortunately they were a lesbian, so it didn't work out.

01:09:48.360 --> 01:09:49.940

Phil: They are difficult to work with.

01:09:51.540 --> 01:09:52.660

Phil: That's a joke, you know.

01:09:53.240 --> 01:10:04.620

Phil: But in any case, I just had to get that off the topic list because it was just funny to me that they basically did a left turn and they dropped, you know, four of the main personalities from the site.

01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:07.480

Phil: And, you know, they seem to be doing all right.

01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:11.880

Phil: I mean, the podcast is still listenable other than the Jeff Bacalar guy, so...

01:10:13.620 --> 01:10:14.860

Tom: I've heard he tastes good though.

01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:16.040

Phil: What's that?

01:10:16.420 --> 01:10:16.780

Phil: Oh, the...

01:10:17.260 --> 01:10:18.880

Tom: I said I've heard he tastes good though.

01:10:18.900 --> 01:10:19.640

Phil: The Baklava.

01:10:19.940 --> 01:10:21.000

Phil: Do you know what's in Baklava?

01:10:21.200 --> 01:10:23.160

Phil: It's mostly dates, isn't it?

01:10:23.180 --> 01:10:24.680

Tom: I think so.

01:10:24.700 --> 01:10:25.140

Tom: Yeah, all right.

01:10:25.340 --> 01:10:25.780

Phil: Fair enough.

01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:27.520

Phil: Okay, so what's the last...

01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:30.380

Tom: What do you think the Jeff Gertzman animosity was about?

01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:31.660

Phil: What animosity?

01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:36.540

Tom: You just said they went out of their way of not saying anything nice.

01:10:36.560 --> 01:10:46.880

Phil: Look, Danny O'Dwyer did a doco in the early days of his, you know, endeavor on Jeff Gertzman.

01:10:48.360 --> 01:11:01.640

Phil: And after all the nice stuff, I think he did have to put in there, just for credibility purposes, towards the end of it, you know, there's basically 30 seconds where Danny says, now, I've got to say...

01:11:01.980 --> 01:11:02.740

Phil: That's terrible.

01:11:02.780 --> 01:11:04.720

Phil: My usual iris action is much better.

01:11:05.740 --> 01:11:11.320

Phil: But basically says, you know, Jeff Gertzman can be not the best, you know, the easiest person to get along with.

01:11:11.540 --> 01:11:13.700

Phil: He spends most of his days wearing headphones.

01:11:14.420 --> 01:11:17.740

Phil: And, you know, in his communications, they can be direct.

01:11:20.040 --> 01:11:22.600

<v SPEAKER_3>Jeff isn't the most social person you'll work with.

01:11:22.820 --> 01:11:27.980

<v SPEAKER_3>He commutes to and from Petaluma every day, a 40 mile drive during Bay Area rush hour.

01:11:28.360 --> 01:11:31.140

<v SPEAKER_3>Perhaps it's why he doesn't socialize much after work.

01:11:31.360 --> 01:11:34.160

<v SPEAKER_3>Or maybe it's a convenient excuse to not have to.

01:11:34.420 --> 01:11:37.680

<v SPEAKER_3>At his desk, he sits with headphones on, usually working on something.

01:11:37.900 --> 01:11:40.360

<v SPEAKER_3>When he talks to you, he speaks openly and honestly.

01:11:40.980 --> 01:11:42.700

<v SPEAKER_3>And when he doesn't want to talk, he doesn't.

01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:52.980

Phil: So you know, I think he's just probably just like not a personality kind of guy other than when he goes on to the podcast.

01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:58.340

Phil: Apparently he doesn't say a lot when he's not in front of a camera or a microphone.

01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:03.560

Phil: And you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

01:12:03.620 --> 01:12:09.480

Phil: But I mean, you've got to get along with your if you've been working with people for 10 plus years, you've got to find a way to get along with them.

01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:19.440

Phil: I think also too, that basically he became a manager slash owner out of duress and he probably just prefers being a content creator.

01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:23.260

Phil: And then he got put into the position of being an owner slash manager.

01:12:24.200 --> 01:12:27.160

Phil: And he's probably not cut out for it, you know, and he didn't ask for it.

01:12:27.180 --> 01:12:28.200

Phil: But that's just very good.

01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:30.460

Phil: Now I hear you've rolled the die of destiny.

01:12:30.480 --> 01:12:31.960

Phil: So what score?

01:12:31.980 --> 01:12:35.760

Tom: We're going to have to rate Giant Bomb, I think.

01:12:36.940 --> 01:12:43.560

Tom: I just want to add quickly though, you said the last 30 seconds of credibility, they added the bit about Jeff Gershman there.

01:12:43.580 --> 01:12:53.780

Tom: I think the subtext there by the standards of Noclip is that he must have been murdering people in the studio basement or something.

01:12:56.220 --> 01:13:07.960

Tom: Because I think if you will recall on the ad for Ireland that he did, as well as about 30 seconds on George Romero or whoever he was ostensibly interviewing there.

01:13:09.540 --> 01:13:18.320

Tom: As well as 30 seconds for that, there was like a two second snippet saying that this sort of thing totally destroyed the Irish economy, move on instantly.

01:13:19.060 --> 01:13:27.840

Tom: So, if you're getting a full 30 seconds there, something serious must have been going on at Giant Bomb.

01:13:27.860 --> 01:13:28.520

Phil: Ando crime.

01:13:29.680 --> 01:13:30.100

Phil: Okay.

01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:30.980

Phil: All right.

01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:34.680

Phil: So, what score did you give my summary of the changes at Giant?

01:13:34.740 --> 01:13:36.520

Tom: No, this is a rating for Giant Bomb.

01:13:44.800 --> 01:13:46.760

Tom: They use the five-point scale, typically.

01:13:46.780 --> 01:13:48.260

Tom: That's a one out of five.

01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:50.460

Phil: Sounds about right.

01:13:50.480 --> 01:13:53.080

Tom: I think that's a fair rating.

01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:53.480

Phil: I think so.

01:13:53.500 --> 01:13:54.180

Tom: I think that is a fair rating.

01:13:54.200 --> 01:13:54.600

Phil: I think so.

01:13:54.660 --> 01:13:55.580

Phil: It's a good podcast.

01:13:56.980 --> 01:14:00.340

Phil: But I don't think they deserve the great community that they've got.

01:14:00.360 --> 01:14:02.600

Phil: They've got a really good community over there.

01:14:03.680 --> 01:14:04.680

Tom: Arnie is a big fan.

01:14:05.020 --> 01:14:05.280

Phil: Yeah.

01:14:06.160 --> 01:14:07.240

Phil: I am a big fan too.

01:14:07.260 --> 01:14:14.740

Phil: I mean, you know, I listen to almost anything they put out, but you know, there's not a lot out there to listen to these days.

01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:18.680

Tom: So you said they're putting a lot of stuff behind a paywall.

01:14:18.700 --> 01:14:20.840

Tom: Would you pay for any of their content?

01:14:21.460 --> 01:14:23.460

Phil: I don't have the time to pay for their content.

01:14:23.480 --> 01:14:29.480

Phil: Like if I had more time, I probably would throw a few bucks their way.

01:14:30.100 --> 01:14:35.320

Phil: But you know, the additional content, they've got some additional podcasts that they've added behind a paywall.

01:14:36.660 --> 01:14:43.520

Phil: If the video game podcasting, it's really like four shows that are worth listening to anymore, including our own.

01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:59.480

Phil: So if it gets much worse than I probably will, just so I have something else to listen to, because usually I'm listening to politics or sports or, you know, reference material or, you know, that sort of thing.

01:15:01.120 --> 01:15:09.380

Phil: So, you know, if I did need more content, I probably would pay the trivial amount that they're asking for to support their model.

01:15:10.400 --> 01:15:22.980

Tom: Before we move on from the real topic of this conversation, which is Noclip, I just have to add that the more one really thinks about the crowning achievement of Noclip, which was the Rocket League documentary.

01:15:23.280 --> 01:15:23.960

Phil: The first one.

01:15:23.980 --> 01:15:28.720

Tom: The more, yes, that's right, yep, and arguably their only good video.

01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:39.100

Tom: The more even that video kind of just comes across as very much an internally made making of documentary.

01:15:39.980 --> 01:16:07.860

Tom: Because while it did feature some, I mean it had a lot of content in it, while it did feature some potentially uncomfortable moments in it, everything was absolutely and totally spun into it being essentially a story of how amazing the company is and what they managed to achieve with the incredible excess of Rocket League and so on and so forth.

01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:10.700

Phil: Do you think that comes out of politeness?

01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:16.400

Phil: Like does that come out of, you know, the people from the UK just being polite?

01:16:16.520 --> 01:16:18.240

Phil: I mean does that carry over into Ireland?

01:16:18.260 --> 01:16:18.680

Phil: I don't know.

01:16:20.420 --> 01:16:31.940

Tom: I don't think politeness is a big thing in Ireland in the same way as in England anyway, but I think it comes from two things.

01:16:33.240 --> 01:16:50.520

Tom: One is I would say the newness of the medium because that was pretty much the first large quote investigative end quote journalist style things done on YouTube games criticism.

01:16:53.080 --> 01:17:05.900

Tom: And two, just the way that the games commentary industry works in conjunction with PR companies and with development studios.

01:17:05.940 --> 01:17:13.920

Tom: I doubt he would have been able to get the sort of access he had if he was not making something which was essentially an advertisement.

01:17:14.380 --> 01:17:32.360

Tom: Because the only thing outside of that where that where there is commentary on games that is not part explicitly of the marketing campaign for games is by random individuals, for example, Jason Schreier, who we were talking about earlier.

01:17:33.640 --> 01:17:38.520

Tom: Yeah, I think I think he got away with it just due to the change in the medium.

01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:48.120

Phil: I do think politeness does have something to do with it as well because I mean, he is relying 100% on studios giving him access.

01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:59.680

Phil: So the second he does a knife job on a studio that's let him in, I mean, you go in there, you meet everyone, you talk to them, you get to know them.

01:17:59.860 --> 01:18:03.240

Phil: I mean, it does make it difficult to do a slam piece on them.

01:18:04.060 --> 01:18:14.340

Phil: I mean, it does, for a normal human being, unless you're seeking attention, it does make it difficult to make it negative.

01:18:14.360 --> 01:18:21.060

Phil: But the other thing too is if someone's letting you have, quote, full access, how much negativity are you going to interact with?

01:18:21.080 --> 01:18:23.480

Phil: It's not like they're saying, oh yeah, you have full access.

01:18:24.200 --> 01:18:25.700

Phil: Here's our HR department.

01:18:25.720 --> 01:18:34.260

Phil: Just ask them whatever you want about issues that employees have had in the past, management decisions and things like that.

01:18:35.580 --> 01:18:38.640

Tom: I'm just saying that there should be some self-awareness of this.

01:18:40.480 --> 01:19:01.440

Tom: If you're visiting America on an official tour, or the Soviet Union on an official tour, or North Korea on an official tour, and you're going along seeing these areas, you would expect there for someone who calls themselves a games critic or journalist, there to be some self-awareness that this is occurring.

01:19:02.180 --> 01:19:03.300

Tom: That's all I'm saying.

01:19:03.320 --> 01:19:03.960

Phil: You are right.

01:19:04.020 --> 01:19:12.320

Phil: I mean, it would be good for him to say to people like, while he's interviewing them, since you've given me full access, let me just talk to you and, okay, and how'd you do this in the game?

01:19:12.340 --> 01:19:13.440

Phil: Oh, yeah, and how'd you do that in the game?

01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:22.100

Phil: Yeah, but sure, there must have been times where you would have preferred to have been home with your family and you stayed here because you felt pressured to stay here, right?

01:19:22.120 --> 01:19:25.340

Phil: So there are ways to get to that, right?

01:19:27.060 --> 01:19:29.580

Phil: And I'm sure you really enjoy working in the game industry.

01:19:30.140 --> 01:19:44.780

Phil: It's very rewarding to be in a creative endeavor, but it's certainly, you must know that you'd be making at least two times more if you're working in development for other software in other industries, right?

01:19:45.300 --> 01:19:54.220

Phil: And try and itch those scabs sort of thing to try and get them to say something on those topics and that just doesn't happen.

01:19:55.820 --> 01:20:10.600

Phil: And yeah, and it does hurt the content because certainly like I start watching a lot of no clip shows and then stop watching, you know, I don't watch them all the way through because they're clearly just advertising, you know, free advertising pieces.

01:20:11.240 --> 01:20:26.220

Phil: And the ones that were the most offensive to me or the least interesting to me was the stuff that he did with Bethesda, which was time and time again, just basically they were just like watching videos that the in-house.

01:20:27.240 --> 01:20:34.320

Tom: For instance, there surely he how did he miss the Bill Cosby pictures and everything?

01:20:34.740 --> 01:20:35.640

Tom: I don't understand it.

01:20:35.740 --> 01:20:36.520

Tom: How did he know it?

01:20:36.540 --> 01:20:37.080

Phil: Activision.

01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:41.960

Tom: Well, they owned by Bethesda, sorry, they owned Bethesda.

01:20:42.580 --> 01:20:44.100

Phil: No, Bethesda is owned by...

01:20:44.160 --> 01:20:45.840

Tom: Oh, wait, no, there's Zenimax.

01:20:45.860 --> 01:20:47.880

Phil: Zenimax is owned by Microsoft now.

01:20:48.300 --> 01:20:49.460

Tom: I stand corrected.

01:20:49.680 --> 01:20:51.360

Tom: They've got the Jeffrey Epstein poster.

01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:52.220

Phil: That's right.

01:20:52.240 --> 01:20:52.720

Tom: I'm sorry.

01:20:53.780 --> 01:20:57.200

Phil: Jeffrey Epstein room, yeah.

01:20:57.280 --> 01:20:59.440

Phil: I heard Bill Gates talking about that last week.

01:20:59.460 --> 01:21:00.160

Phil: It was interesting.

01:21:01.760 --> 01:21:05.360

Phil: Do you care or anything about the whole Activision thing or...

01:21:07.340 --> 01:21:09.580

Tom: Well, I mean, I've already made one joke about it.

01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:10.780

Tom: So do we need to make more...

01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:12.080

Phil: Not really, not really.

01:21:12.360 --> 01:21:15.320

Phil: It's an old trope at this point.

01:21:16.740 --> 01:21:20.040

Phil: But yeah, I think I do like Danny D'Andre.

01:21:20.080 --> 01:21:20.980

Phil: I've got to say that.

01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:24.780

Phil: I do think he's an authentic character and...

01:21:25.200 --> 01:21:26.000

Phil: I agree.

01:21:26.040 --> 01:21:31.020

Phil: He is very good at what he does in terms of the production values and things like that.

01:21:31.040 --> 01:21:33.220

Phil: I think he does phenomenal work.

01:21:34.340 --> 01:21:39.740

Phil: Got to think that he might be able to do more, but he wouldn't get the access that he gets.

01:21:40.760 --> 01:21:54.400

Tom: Of the three advertising luminaries of today we've mentioned, Scott Morrison, Danny O'Dwyer and Crocodile Dundee, I do believe that Danny O'Dwyer is the only authentic and likable one among them.

01:21:54.840 --> 01:22:01.740

Phil: I was going to say, if you could have a beer with Scott Morrison, Paul Hogan slash Crocodile Dundee or Danny O'Dwyer.

01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:06.720

Tom: I would probably say Scott Morrison.

01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:11.600

Tom: I think that would be the most interesting.

01:22:11.620 --> 01:22:12.040

Phil: Yes.

01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:19.580

Phil: Look, in terms of people I want to meet, I don't know what I'd say.

01:22:20.140 --> 01:22:26.000

Phil: In terms of having a beer with someone, probably Danny O'Dwyer because being a fellow Irishman, I'm pretty sure that he could keep up with me.

01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:33.660

Tom: And then again, if they're purchasing the type of beer, I think I would probably have to go with the Irishman as well.

01:22:35.240 --> 01:22:38.040

Tom: Because I don't trust what either of the Australians will be drinking.

01:22:38.380 --> 01:22:40.320

Phil: It's not going to be Foster's, I can tell you that.

01:22:41.820 --> 01:22:43.640

Phil: Do we want to talk about another game or?

01:22:44.440 --> 01:22:47.500

Tom: Well, we did review Omno on the website, I believe.

01:22:47.940 --> 01:22:51.400

Phil: A masterful, another game that looks like Sky or Journey.

01:22:52.020 --> 01:22:54.260

Tom: There are quite a few of them now, or at least two.

01:22:54.540 --> 01:23:00.680

Phil: And another game, you were quite taken with the independent developer, please tell me the name of them.

01:23:02.080 --> 01:23:04.040

Tom: Was it Jonas Manke?

01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:08.020

Phil: Yeah, so the Omni review is on the front page of our website.

01:23:09.120 --> 01:23:12.320

Phil: And yeah, Jonas Manke, or Jonas Manke.

01:23:13.240 --> 01:23:14.140

Tom: Jonas Manke.

01:23:14.180 --> 01:23:17.760

Phil: Yeah, and like Tim Keenan, he's a former animator.

01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:23.160

Phil: I recently re-listened to your interview with Tim Keenan, by the way, which was outstanding.

01:23:25.820 --> 01:23:28.640

Phil: One of the good things about being the long-standing podcast.

01:23:29.060 --> 01:23:46.680

Tom: I think, fine, it did feature some tough moments, including, I think, the most awkward and uncomfortable thing for any developer to face, which was, particularly as an indie developer there, my comments criticising her story, which she had to respond to.

01:23:46.700 --> 01:23:58.860

Tom: I think you could feel the fear and terror that something critical on an indie game being stated caused an email.

01:23:58.880 --> 01:24:08.520

Phil: Episode 48 was the first interview, or second interview you had done with him, and he was the creator of Duskers and what was his first game called?

01:24:10.280 --> 01:24:12.040

Phil: A Virus Named Tom, yeah, exactly.

01:24:12.660 --> 01:24:14.340

Phil: Sounded like a delightful chap.

01:24:15.020 --> 01:24:15.780

Tom: He did indeed.

01:24:16.460 --> 01:24:17.860

Phil: Did you interview him after that?

01:24:19.040 --> 01:24:19.960

Tom: No, I don't think so.

01:24:19.980 --> 01:24:23.380

Phil: Okay, I don't know what happened to him after Duskers.

01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:29.380

Tom: I'm pretty sure Duskers is the last game he has made thus far.

01:24:29.400 --> 01:24:33.780

Tom: I think he's possibly not working full-time in games at the moment.

01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:44.960

Tom: But Duskers, you actually see being mentioned around here and there on the internet today still, which is perhaps not that surprising given its uniqueness.

01:24:45.460 --> 01:24:59.840

Phil: I think too, if I could just speak candidly, I know that his wife who was also one of the co-developers of the game was pregnant with their first child, second child.

01:24:59.860 --> 01:25:20.040

Phil: So I do think that that game development period in this pre-COVID world lent them as a family the opportunity to spend a lot of time together, which would have been a wonderful thing for them, as they brought up their first two children or their first two children into the world sort of thing.

01:25:21.160 --> 01:25:24.880

Phil: So and the fact that the games are still getting mentioned today is notable.

01:25:25.160 --> 01:25:29.860

Phil: I'm sure they're still drawing income in this if they ever get noticed sort of thing.

01:25:31.360 --> 01:25:32.060

Tom: Quite possibly.

01:25:32.080 --> 01:25:39.580

Phil: But Omno was also made by a former animator, but it is derivative.

01:25:39.820 --> 01:25:42.760

Phil: I mean, it looks a lot like Journey.

01:25:42.780 --> 01:25:45.600

Phil: It looks like it's got sand surfing in there as well.

01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:47.000

Phil: What sort of game is it?

01:25:49.220 --> 01:25:53.960

Tom: Well, it is a 3D platformer and it is highly derivative.

01:25:53.980 --> 01:26:10.720

Tom: I think the thing that makes it nevertheless of interest is unlike Duskers, where again, there are a few cinematic things there that would come from animation, but due to the nature of the game, it is not so much about animation here.

01:26:11.180 --> 01:26:36.920

Tom: I think the interesting ways it is more like a short animated film or a dreamworks, not necessarily Pixar style animation, do set it apart from things it is copying such as Journey or Eco, where both of them are very much original.

01:26:37.240 --> 01:26:50.900

Tom: And if they have a reference to other mediums in a big way, it's ones that one would not necessarily immediately associate with games such as literature and painting.

01:26:51.820 --> 01:26:53.600

Phil: So that review is on our site.

01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:55.240

Phil: You played it on PC, no doubt?

01:26:56.280 --> 01:26:57.040

Tom: Yes, I did.

01:26:58.740 --> 01:27:00.140

Phil: Anything else you want to talk about?

01:27:01.560 --> 01:27:09.060

Tom: Well, that review was well received on the VG Press, I believe, by VEDA and Supreme AC.

01:27:09.080 --> 01:27:12.600

Tom: And I'm pretty sure that that has happened on a couple of occasions in the past.

01:27:12.900 --> 01:27:25.680

Tom: And I've noticed a pattern that my best received reviews, at least at the VG Press, are always the ones that are written the fastest and with the least amount of time and effort put into them.

01:27:25.820 --> 01:27:31.820

Phil: Well, I mean, the people that are still contributing to discussion forums, that's how they roll, right?

01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:34.000

Phil: I mean, that's how they communicate.

01:27:34.100 --> 01:27:34.740

Phil: Yes.

01:27:35.100 --> 01:27:35.760

Phil: That is true.

01:27:37.240 --> 01:27:38.680

Tom: Speaking of communication.

01:27:40.300 --> 01:27:40.640

Tom: Yes.

01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:53.020

Tom: We have been, I have now been, I don't know if anyone has noticed, because it has, essentially our Twitter style has ended up being the same, which is posting absolutely nothing.

01:27:54.500 --> 01:28:02.860

Tom: But I did subtly and stealthily take over The Game Under Twitter account.

01:28:03.740 --> 01:28:04.620

Tom: Some time ago.

01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:07.280

Phil: I noticed an increase in topless selfies.

01:28:07.440 --> 01:28:09.920

Phil: So it wasn't that, it was noticed.

01:28:11.200 --> 01:28:19.360

Tom: Well, there would be, if I had gone to the effort of uploading cyberpunk screenshots, there would have been a lot of topless selfies.

01:28:20.200 --> 01:28:20.840

Phil: Very cool.

01:28:21.780 --> 01:28:28.420

Tom: And if we ever have an Instagram for Game Under, there will be a lot, because there are a lot of cyberpunk screenshots to go through.

01:28:28.440 --> 01:28:29.300

Phil: Hey, you know what?

01:28:29.360 --> 01:28:31.160

Phil: This brings me up to another topic.

01:28:32.300 --> 01:28:33.980

Phil: Say what you will about Homefront.

01:28:35.480 --> 01:28:39.600

Phil: They shipped a game on a disc with pretty much no ability to update it.

01:28:40.220 --> 01:28:41.900

Phil: At least the bloody thing worked.

01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:42.900

Phil: And it was a game.

01:28:42.980 --> 01:28:45.100

Phil: I mean, can you imagine how scary that would have been?

01:28:45.540 --> 01:29:07.680

Phil: Like producing a game back in the day when you're just putting it on a disc or a cartridge and just hoping like hell that you captured everything as opposed to cyberpunk, which is like basically if they ever get sued in a class action lawsuit, other than by their shareholders, they basically decide, well, we'll just ship it and fuck it.

01:29:07.700 --> 01:29:09.860

Phil: You know, I mean, we'll update it later.

01:29:09.880 --> 01:29:17.860

Phil: The game is unplayable on the largest platform available other than PC, which is PlayStation 4.

01:29:19.580 --> 01:29:20.820

Phil: It's just incredible to me.

01:29:23.460 --> 01:29:31.000

Phil: And I think a lot about Homefront, mostly because it's at eye line level when I walk out of the media room.

01:29:31.780 --> 01:29:35.680

Phil: That section of video games happens to be the last thing I see as I walk out of the media room.

01:29:37.580 --> 01:29:40.780

Phil: But anyway, I had to say that.

01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:49.280

Phil: That game did have a running treadmill hooked up for a water filtration system in it to water the garden of tomatoes or something.

01:29:50.020 --> 01:29:50.520

Phil: Is that right?

01:29:51.700 --> 01:29:52.140

Tom: Did it?

01:29:53.300 --> 01:29:54.760

Phil: There's only one way to find out.

01:29:54.780 --> 01:29:55.380

Tom: Wait, yeah, yeah.

01:29:55.400 --> 01:29:57.240

Tom: The intro, during the intro, yes.

01:29:57.260 --> 01:29:57.840

Tom: Something like that.

01:29:57.860 --> 01:29:58.760

Phil: There's only one way to find out.

01:29:58.780 --> 01:30:00.100

Phil: That's for us to both get back to the game.

01:30:00.120 --> 01:30:00.800

Phil: It's time for a replay.

01:30:00.820 --> 01:30:02.160

Phil: It's time for a replay.

01:30:02.660 --> 01:30:06.440

Phil: I think it also had a bridge level, but I just might be thinking of Killzone.

01:30:06.460 --> 01:30:08.800

Tom: Yes, one of the worst bridge levels in history.

01:30:09.660 --> 01:30:11.060

Phil: Anyway, I'm sorry.

01:30:11.080 --> 01:30:14.100

Tom: And I'm not sure there has ever been a good bridge level in a first person shooter.

01:30:14.120 --> 01:30:15.420

Phil: What were you saying about Twitter?

01:30:18.980 --> 01:30:21.760

Tom: Yes, I also actually think about Homefront on and off.

01:30:21.780 --> 01:30:22.120

Phil: You do.

01:30:22.780 --> 01:30:27.720

Tom: Surprisingly often, there is something about that game that sticks with you.

01:30:27.740 --> 01:30:28.020

Phil: Yeah.

01:30:28.420 --> 01:30:29.440

Tom: There definitely is.

01:30:29.620 --> 01:30:35.320

Phil: Yeah, and this is the original Homefront, not that they did another one that was crap a couple of years ago.

01:30:36.880 --> 01:30:37.800

Tom: Yet another crap.

01:30:37.820 --> 01:30:38.520

Tom: Well, yeah.

01:30:38.620 --> 01:30:39.420

Tom: Two in a row.

01:30:39.440 --> 01:30:40.420

Phil: It was absolutely worse.

01:30:40.440 --> 01:30:42.540

Phil: It was inexplicable as to why they went back to it.

01:30:43.560 --> 01:30:45.020

Phil: What is our Twitter handle anyway?

01:30:45.100 --> 01:30:46.420

Phil: It's Game Under Phil, right?

01:30:47.480 --> 01:30:49.380

Tom: Yes, Game at Game Under Phil.

01:30:49.400 --> 01:30:55.180

Phil: If you want to follow us at Game Under Phil, I'm just having a look now.

01:30:55.920 --> 01:31:03.160

Phil: Oh, you promoted our podcast and you promoted your review of Omno and Inglot.

01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:06.420

Tom: At the same time, I believe.

01:31:06.440 --> 01:31:08.940

Tom: In the one tweet, that's how succinct I can be.

01:31:11.100 --> 01:31:17.240

Phil: Oh, Tim Keenan retweeted, Duskers turns five years old today.

01:31:19.340 --> 01:31:21.240

Phil: And he didn't ask for anything on Reddit Games.

01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:22.840

Phil: 50% off Steam.

01:31:23.140 --> 01:31:24.960

Phil: And he's returned to being a full-time indie.

01:31:26.240 --> 01:31:26.820

Tom: There we go.

01:31:26.840 --> 01:31:28.500

Tom: So he was not, now he is.

01:31:28.520 --> 01:31:29.340

Phil: Misfit Addicts.

01:31:30.440 --> 01:31:31.540

Phil: Okay, cool.

01:31:32.660 --> 01:31:33.940

Phil: Probably time to check in with him, huh?

01:31:35.320 --> 01:31:36.020

Tom: Quite possibly.

01:31:37.360 --> 01:31:40.040

Tom: So Twitter, I believe we were talking about.

01:31:41.680 --> 01:31:57.160

Tom: Now, I don't know if it's the people that you were following or not, but it can't just be the people you're following because I know quite a few of them, such as Jamie and the Endless Backlog crew and Chris Langner.

01:31:58.240 --> 01:32:02.580

Tom: Chris Langner and Gargan are potentially the two exceptions to this.

01:32:03.120 --> 01:32:19.760

Tom: But I do wonder what exactly the utility of having 140 character limit is because it appears to be very difficult to say anything interesting in 130 words or less.

01:32:19.840 --> 01:32:21.780

Phil: Yes, we've noticed this about you, Tom.

01:32:21.800 --> 01:32:25.500

Tom: 140 characters or less, sorry.

01:32:26.220 --> 01:32:27.080

Tom: And if you do...

01:32:27.280 --> 01:32:32.740

Tom: It's difficult for you to say anything in less than 140 paragraphs.

01:32:33.200 --> 01:32:34.900

Tom: My tweets are impeccable.

01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:38.800

Tom: I literally promoted two things in the one tweet.

01:32:38.920 --> 01:32:39.660

Tom: I'll have you know.

01:32:41.220 --> 01:32:42.800

Tom: So this does not apply to me at all.

01:32:43.060 --> 01:33:12.520

Tom: But the only time anyone says anything vaguely interesting in on Twitter, for the most part, it is either a joke which requires no response to it or it is a statement that is filled with so much vitriol and fury that the only way to respond to it would be to come up with something even more heinous and eviscerate.

01:33:12.540 --> 01:33:13.380

Phil: That would be awesome.

01:33:15.040 --> 01:33:16.840

Phil: Now you're making me want to go back to Twitter.

01:33:19.040 --> 01:33:23.700

Tom: Which has led me to not communicate with anyone on Twitter.

01:33:24.540 --> 01:33:29.860

Phil: I think, I've always said you're the master quip, you're the quip master, rather.

01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:37.960

Phil: And yeah, I think if you took it from a shock comedy perspective, I think you could do a lot with Twitter.

01:33:38.420 --> 01:33:39.260

Phil: I think that'd be fun.

01:33:40.340 --> 01:33:44.460

Tom: Well, Chris Langner posts a stream of jokes that are usually pretty reasonable.

01:33:44.480 --> 01:33:45.540

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:33:45.580 --> 01:33:54.320

Phil: I actually like Twitter and the people that I was following on Twitter because it's made up mostly of people in Australia and New Zealand loosely associated with it.

01:33:54.340 --> 01:33:58.320

Tom: And I just have to add, I think my tweeting record is reasonable.

01:33:58.340 --> 01:34:06.900

Tom: For instance, when Super Straight was trending, I posted, hi, Super Straight, Super Gay, Super Lesbian.

01:34:07.200 --> 01:34:08.740

Tom: You have to check out this sexuality.

01:34:08.740 --> 01:34:12.620

Tom: It's the most innovative sexuality I've had intercourse with in years.

01:34:13.360 --> 01:34:14.480

Tom: Hashtag superhot.

01:34:15.380 --> 01:34:16.900

Phil: Pretty good, pretty good.

01:34:17.320 --> 01:34:17.920

Phil: Super hot.

01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:21.600

Tom: I'm not saying it was great, but it did use the medium successfully.

01:34:21.740 --> 01:34:22.680

Tom: That's all I'm saying.

01:34:22.860 --> 01:34:24.780

Phil: Super hot's another game, I think, about a fair bit.

01:34:25.580 --> 01:34:30.380

Phil: Hey, so, what is the last stop for this episode?

01:34:31.520 --> 01:34:35.100

Tom: The last stop for this episode is Salt Shaker Lane.

01:34:36.980 --> 01:34:40.100

Tom: Now, last stop, I've forgotten who to develop and what they're called.

01:34:40.800 --> 01:34:53.300

Tom: But they, Variable State, yes, and they are famous for making Virginia, which was at the height of indie experience games.

01:34:53.460 --> 01:35:03.920

Tom: And it was very heavily inspired by the likes of Twin Peaks and the X-Files and things of that nature.

01:35:04.440 --> 01:35:09.500

Tom: And I remember impressively little about that game.

01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:16.560

Tom: I remember a few of the settings and a couple of the characters, but that is about it.

01:35:16.580 --> 01:35:25.380

Tom: Whereas I remember other games from that sort of era that I liked even less, such as for instance, Gone Home, very well indeed.

01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:34.120

Tom: So I was really not going into this with the highest of expectations to say the least.

01:35:34.180 --> 01:35:35.640

Phil: It was not a memorable game.

01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:45.200

Phil: It borrowed heavily from like X-Files sort of thing, but also at the same time, the Walking Dead video games type of thing.

01:35:45.200 --> 01:35:47.960

Phil: And it just wasn't particularly interesting.

01:35:48.400 --> 01:35:57.420

Phil: The art style was reminiscent of Sunset by one of our other favorite game developers.

01:35:57.440 --> 01:36:03.060

Phil: And yeah, I just remember not really finishing the game or feeling a need to play much of it.

01:36:04.360 --> 01:36:10.020

Phil: So this is a studio that's based in England and Dublin.

01:36:12.200 --> 01:36:16.160

Phil: And it's available, published by Annapurna Interactive.

01:36:16.700 --> 01:36:17.640

Phil: And it's on everything.

01:36:17.920 --> 01:36:20.580

Phil: So Windows through Switch, everything in between.

01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:27.420

Phil: It's a single player exploration game that came out just very recently, July 22nd.

01:36:29.300 --> 01:36:31.840

Phil: And it's set in 1980s London, I understand.

01:36:32.720 --> 01:36:34.880

Tom: Well, I think it's set in present day London.

01:36:37.840 --> 01:36:40.080

Tom: But it begins in 1980s London.

01:36:40.100 --> 01:36:42.320

Phil: OK, and then jumps to the 2020s.

01:36:42.340 --> 01:36:43.880

Tom: That's right, jumps ahead in time.

01:36:44.020 --> 01:36:52.880

Tom: And the plot set up is basically that someone disappears in the London underground in supernatural circumstances.

01:36:54.360 --> 01:37:08.380

Tom: And then skips ahead to the three different stories featuring four protagonists who each have their own interaction with the paranormal things that are going on.

01:37:08.640 --> 01:37:18.860

Tom: One character works for a company that is investigating these paranormal activities, potentially for the military industrial complex.

01:37:19.920 --> 01:37:32.100

Tom: Another character is a teenager who runs into a mysterious character who may be kidnapping people or something to that effect.

01:37:32.620 --> 01:37:41.720

Tom: And another story is about two characters once, who are involved in a body swapping scenario.

01:37:42.820 --> 01:37:48.240

Phil: Well, it sounds like it's got the capability of exploiting some pretty good game mechanics.

01:37:50.040 --> 01:37:51.580

Tom: Well, it certainly does not do that.

01:37:53.200 --> 01:38:12.340

Tom: The gameplay consists of choosing dialogue responses, which as far as I can tell do not have much of effect on what is said, and certainly do not affect the way that the plot unrolls in any way, shape or form, except in maybe a couple of decisions at the end.

01:38:14.820 --> 01:38:17.280

Tom: And that's pretty much it for the gameplay.

01:38:17.300 --> 01:38:36.580

Tom: There are a few QTE style things in the style of Indigo Prophecy slash Fahrenheit, such as if you're drinking a cup of coffee, if you're playing on a keyboard, you press, I think, A then S, then W as if you're moving the cup towards you, then lifting it, something like that.

01:38:39.540 --> 01:38:48.040

Tom: And also if you're running, you might press A and D back and forth very quickly to get a speed boost, that sort of thing.

01:38:49.300 --> 01:38:54.080

Tom: Though again, I don't know if failing those things actually has any effect either.

01:38:54.540 --> 01:38:57.500

Tom: So in gameplay terms, I don't think it is very interesting.

01:38:57.940 --> 01:39:05.120

Tom: In terms of the setting and story, it is a big step up from Virginia.

01:39:05.720 --> 01:39:18.160

Tom: I think mainly because there is a sense of humour to the story of all, to all three stories in the game, particularly unsurprisingly the body swapping story.

01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:35.540

Tom: As one of the characters is a game developer who looks like a fitness fanatic version of PewDiePie and another is a overweight bald middle-aged man with heart problems who has a daughter.

01:39:36.520 --> 01:39:47.700

Tom: So that's played up for all the laughs that you would expect and works quite well as a complement to the slightly more serious and mysterious other two stories.

01:39:47.980 --> 01:40:17.840

Tom: But the thing that surprised me was the sense of humour and self-awareness throughout the game which makes me wonder if I should go back to Virginia to see if it is in fact a parody because the only thing I remember about Virginia as well as a couple of the settings looking relatively okay was that a few moments were very unintentionally funny and now I'm wondering after playing this if they were actually intentionally funny, though they probably were not.

01:40:18.760 --> 01:40:20.480

Phil: Have you played this game to its completion?

01:40:21.500 --> 01:40:21.920

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:40:21.940 --> 01:40:23.700

Phil: I've heard it's about four hours long.

01:40:23.840 --> 01:40:24.140

Phil: Is that...

01:40:25.660 --> 01:40:27.100

Tom: Yep, that would be about right.

01:40:27.200 --> 01:40:32.480

Tom: It's not very long, but it also does not really live outlive its welcome.

01:40:35.020 --> 01:41:01.080

Tom: some of the chapters are extremely short, so I think perhaps structurally it would have worked better to make it less chapters with adding some of the chapters to the story in other chapters, because some of them basically last literally 10 minutes, where a chapter elsewhere will have lasted 30 or 40 minutes or so.

01:41:02.500 --> 01:41:13.940

Tom: So, there are some odd pacing decisions there, but otherwise it is relatively concise in how it tells its story.

01:41:15.560 --> 01:41:33.220

Phil: I rely on Wikipedia to kind of bring me up to speed on these games that I've never heard about and isn't it telling that, like, you can bring up a game that was released in July of this year and it doesn't have a reception section because no one reviews games anymore.

01:41:34.520 --> 01:41:44.300

Phil: You know, like, there's no Metacritic link or anything else and, you know, maybe that's just because the people who have put together this page aren't, you know, particularly interested in following it up.

01:41:45.500 --> 01:41:52.020

Phil: So I don't know how it's been received, but apparently there's a series of mini game interactions throughout the game.

01:41:52.040 --> 01:41:53.140

Phil: I was interested about that.

01:41:54.680 --> 01:41:55.620

Tom: What were the mini games?

01:41:56.160 --> 01:42:02.400

Phil: Were players control one of three main characters deciding what they should say and performing a variety of mini game interactions?

01:42:03.560 --> 01:42:07.680

Tom: I think that probably means the QTEs, but they don't want to call it QTEs.

01:42:09.460 --> 01:42:12.320

Phil: Yeah, and unfortunately the citations for that.

01:42:13.000 --> 01:42:26.820

Phil: You know, Dean Takahashi, he's like, he's another guy who wrote inside the Xbox as an investigative, quote, journalist, not really investigative journalist, but as a journalist.

01:42:28.480 --> 01:42:33.380

Phil: That was an outstanding book about the development of the original Xbox, but he's still kicking around.

01:42:34.660 --> 01:42:38.780

Tom: While we're going on as asides here, you said no one really reviews things.

01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:55.660

Tom: And GameSpot was a fascinating incubator of what the internet would be, which with the current games community not really having anything similar to that, but being broken up in various areas.

01:42:56.140 --> 01:43:16.740

Tom: Is Steam not now in fact somewhat like what GameSpot was with its myriad of user reviews ranging from seriously done writing to random stuff and sometimes very in depth games forums as well.

01:43:17.100 --> 01:43:22.680

Tom: It is not unlike a GameSpot that does not have any off topic discussion.

01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:32.740

Phil: I think with the destruction of NeoGAF, they got, what was it called, Remember Mead?

01:43:34.080 --> 01:43:35.120

Tom: Reset Era?

01:43:35.120 --> 01:43:38.360

Phil: Yeah, I mean they got turned into Reset Era.

01:43:38.740 --> 01:43:48.320

Phil: I think Reset Era, I haven't gone there, you know, per se, so I don't know if they've carried on that sort of community type thing that GameSpot had.

01:43:49.740 --> 01:43:55.600

Phil: But no, and also, you know, Reddit to an extent, but I agree with your point entirely.

01:43:56.480 --> 01:44:10.720

Phil: I think that Steam has a really rich community and, you know, you have this community where you have not only forums but also, you know, people pimping their content, be it a review or whatever.

01:44:10.740 --> 01:44:13.400

Phil: Yeah, no, I completely buy into that.

01:44:13.420 --> 01:44:18.180

Phil: I think Steam, because of its old school nature, they don't really do a lot with it.

01:44:18.200 --> 01:44:35.120

Phil: They don't really change that much unless they're forced to interchange, as you've seen with the GUI, graphical user interface they've updated, you know, based on competitive forces recently, like Epic Games and every other game store.

01:44:35.740 --> 01:44:37.380

Phil: But no, I completely buy that.

01:44:37.660 --> 01:44:38.540

Phil: You're absolutely right.

01:44:39.880 --> 01:44:43.420

Phil: So, back to our stop, and Off Topic was a great forum.

01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:51.160

Tom: It was, and not just the Off Topic forum, there were also the Off Topic blogs and unions as well.

01:44:51.440 --> 01:44:54.460

Phil: Gotta love the unions, but I was a union leader, as you know.

01:44:56.040 --> 01:44:56.700

Tom: So was I.

01:44:57.620 --> 01:45:24.240

Tom: So, last stop, there isn't really that much more to say on it because it is very simple and relatively short, but I think the other thing in Virginia that was notable, as I said, a couple of things I did remember from it were the settings, and I think this being set in England and them being English slash Irish makes a big difference to it.

01:45:25.260 --> 01:45:46.880

Tom: From the selection of cars that are on the streets to the atmosphere of the parks and flats and insides of offices and all those sorts of things, and of course the moments you're in the underground, they really have a very strong British atmosphere to it that was lacking in Virginia.

01:45:46.900 --> 01:45:57.740

Tom: You could see that visually they could come up with some interesting imagery, but none of it had any of the feel of Washington and the other places that it was set in.

01:45:57.940 --> 01:46:09.300

Tom: Not that I've been to Washington, but Twin Peaks, which is inspired by, I don't think that's in Washington either, but that has a really strong sense of place in it.

01:46:09.320 --> 01:46:15.000

Phil: Twin Peaks is set in Washington state, whereas Virginia is closer to Washington DC.

01:46:15.880 --> 01:46:19.720

Tom: And you really get that sense in Twin Peaks, you do not in Virginia.

01:46:19.740 --> 01:46:42.040

Tom: Here there is actually a strong sense of place, and when you end up in the other dimension as well, they can then allow their more dreamy imagination to be utilised well, which was the only real thing that stood out successfully as an aesthetic in Virginia.

01:46:42.420 --> 01:46:49.120

Tom: Here you get the two combined, which creates a more interesting and enjoyable atmosphere than in Virginia.

01:46:49.500 --> 01:47:02.720

Phil: And I think if not tonight as well, I'd be completely surprised if that was not developed by people who have first-hand knowledge of London or England, right?

01:47:02.740 --> 01:47:04.920

Phil: They carried that through extremely well, I thought.

01:47:06.600 --> 01:47:08.200

Tom: I'm pretty sure it is an English game.

01:47:08.380 --> 01:47:09.040

Phil: Has to be.

01:47:09.600 --> 01:47:10.220

Phil: Has to be.

01:47:10.480 --> 01:47:13.440

Phil: Hey, so for Australia, do we have a game?

01:47:13.460 --> 01:47:17.300

Phil: Do we have a game where you're like, oh yeah, these people have to have been to Australia?

01:47:19.000 --> 01:47:21.500

Phil: To have picked that up?

01:47:22.560 --> 01:47:25.500

Phil: Other than cruising the world, you know, with the kangaroos and...

01:47:26.600 --> 01:47:28.360

Tom: I think our game is Alain Noir.

01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:32.580

Phil: That is the most Australian game, I'd have to say.

01:47:32.600 --> 01:47:36.780

Tom: It captures the facial expressions of Australians, I think.

01:47:37.240 --> 01:47:38.940

Phil: Yeah.

01:47:39.020 --> 01:47:41.520

Phil: Okay, is it the last word on The Last Stop?

01:47:42.680 --> 01:47:43.220

Tom: That is.

01:47:43.260 --> 01:47:44.240

Tom: We're ready to score?

01:47:44.260 --> 01:47:44.880

Phil: I think we are.

01:47:44.900 --> 01:47:51.000

Phil: If you want to break out the die of destiny, I'll get the soundboard set up to make the rolling die sound effect.

01:47:54.300 --> 01:47:56.400

Tom: That gets, unfortunately, a 3 out of 10.

01:47:56.420 --> 01:47:58.640

Phil: Okay, but we can multiply that by 2.

01:48:00.220 --> 01:48:02.320

Tom: Which may be worse than what Virginia scored.

01:48:02.420 --> 01:48:03.980

Phil: We can multiply that by 2.

01:48:05.420 --> 01:48:10.180

Tom: We can, but we won't because we are ethical game journalists.

01:48:10.200 --> 01:48:11.640

Phil: Game journalists, yes, that's true.

01:48:12.840 --> 01:48:15.460

Tom: So how the die falls is how the die falls.

01:48:16.340 --> 01:48:18.980

Tom: And I did just remember that was not our last stop because...

01:48:19.460 --> 01:48:26.680

Phil: I'm sorry, I just went to our video game site, which has an amazing search tool.

01:48:27.460 --> 01:48:30.740

Phil: Because I wanted to see what you'd given Virginia as a score.

01:48:31.980 --> 01:48:33.540

Phil: You can only guess what I typed in.

01:48:33.560 --> 01:48:37.580

Phil: Now I'll spell it properly.

01:48:41.980 --> 01:48:43.860

Phil: We talked about Virginia a lot.

01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:45.040

Phil: Holy crap.

01:48:45.540 --> 01:48:46.920

Phil: We talked about it a lot.

01:48:47.020 --> 01:49:02.180

Phil: If you go to our site and put in Virginia, you'll not only get reviews of Lighthouse by Virginia Woolf, but also the various podcasts on which we spoke about Virginia.

01:49:02.200 --> 01:49:07.300

Tom: I think that's pretty impressive that we've got reviews by Virginia Woolf on our site.

01:49:07.840 --> 01:49:08.780

Phil: It is cool.

01:49:09.100 --> 01:49:16.440

Phil: But the number one hit on our site when you type in Virginia, spelt correctly, is AOL keyword G-U-P.

01:49:19.680 --> 01:49:28.680

Phil: And it's an article that says, we'll be back to discuss the current state of indie game development scene, the final impressions of Virginia and that dragon cancer.

01:49:28.700 --> 01:49:29.240

Phil: Click here.

01:49:30.520 --> 01:49:36.100

Phil: It says, trigger alert to humans, it sounds like something we'd say.

01:49:38.080 --> 01:49:41.540

Phil: If you're a human, you will be triggered by this podcast.

01:49:43.000 --> 01:49:43.940

Tom: I remember why.

01:49:43.960 --> 01:49:47.020

Tom: I believe it was due to our comments on that dragon cancer.

01:49:48.820 --> 01:49:50.120

Phil: Episode 92.

01:49:50.840 --> 01:49:58.400

Tom: As you can tell from the way Phil Fogg plays games, which is like a dragon, they're very much pro cancer at gameunder.net.

01:49:58.500 --> 01:50:01.080

Phil: Episode 92 is called Christian Cancer Company.

01:50:06.180 --> 01:50:15.780

Phil: Anyway, I think that the last word on the last call or whatever the hell it's called is also the last thing we'll do on this podcast for tonight.

01:50:16.500 --> 01:50:17.320

Phil: So thank you dear...

01:50:17.360 --> 01:50:19.780

Tom: Well, it would be if I had not been playing The Ramp.

01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:21.340

Phil: So thank you dear listener for joining us.

01:50:21.360 --> 01:50:23.140

Tom: Which probably should have been at the beginning of the show.

01:50:23.160 --> 01:50:24.680

Phil: For episode 137.

01:50:24.700 --> 01:50:25.260

Tom: But The Ramp.

01:50:25.340 --> 01:50:26.680

Phil: Of The Game Under Podcast.

01:50:26.700 --> 01:50:27.480

Phil: I've been your host.

01:50:28.420 --> 01:50:29.200

Tom: Yes, The Ramp.

01:50:30.280 --> 01:50:32.580

Phil: And Tom, do you have any last words before we go out?

01:50:33.940 --> 01:50:34.560

Tom: Yes I do.

01:50:35.440 --> 01:50:41.320

Tom: The Ramp is a skateboarding game developed by...

01:50:42.540 --> 01:50:43.480

Phil: Searches on the internet.

01:50:43.500 --> 01:50:43.600

Phil: Yes.

01:50:47.180 --> 01:50:48.200

Tom: Hyperparadise.

01:50:48.260 --> 01:50:50.140

Phil: And you wonder why you don't get free codes.

01:50:51.700 --> 01:50:52.840

Tom: Well, this is a free code.

01:50:52.860 --> 01:50:53.680

Phil: This was a free code.

01:50:54.120 --> 01:50:56.120

Tom: This is why I have to shoehorn it in.

01:50:56.140 --> 01:51:01.920

Phil: But if you actually had paid for the game, I'm pretty sure you would have been invested enough in it that you would know the name of the developer.

01:51:04.760 --> 01:51:05.640

Tom: But perhaps.

01:51:06.500 --> 01:51:07.020

Tom: Perhaps.

01:51:07.040 --> 01:51:08.620

Tom: But you said why I don't get them.

01:51:09.080 --> 01:51:09.400

Phil: Yes.

01:51:09.420 --> 01:51:10.160

Phil: This is why.

01:51:10.360 --> 01:51:11.760

Tom: But this is in fact proof that I do.

01:51:11.880 --> 01:51:13.000

Phil: So you've been playing The Ramp.

01:51:13.000 --> 01:51:14.280

Phil: What platform is it on?

01:51:14.280 --> 01:51:14.560

Tom: Yes.

01:51:14.580 --> 01:51:15.280

Phil: Surely you know that.

01:51:15.300 --> 01:51:17.600

Tom: It is on PC.

01:51:19.180 --> 01:51:20.920

Tom: I know that because that's what I'm playing it on.

01:51:22.520 --> 01:51:24.280

Tom: I think it possibly is only on PC.

01:51:24.300 --> 01:51:25.160

Tom: And it's developed by whom?

01:51:27.420 --> 01:51:28.400

Phil: And where are they based?

01:51:31.160 --> 01:51:31.720

Tom: The Earth.

01:51:35.180 --> 01:51:35.900

Tom: Maybe Finland.

01:51:35.920 --> 01:51:36.100

Tom: Okay.

01:51:40.500 --> 01:51:40.780

Phil: Yes, it is.

01:51:47.100 --> 01:51:47.820

Phil: I think it's a very good game.

01:51:50.960 --> 01:51:52.380

Phil: I think it's a very good game.

01:51:53.560 --> 01:51:54.100

Phil: I think it's a very.

01:51:59.520 --> 01:52:00.860

Phil: And that has brought more interest in it.

01:52:00.900 --> 01:52:06.700

Phil: People have been trying to get Skate remade by EA.

01:52:09.060 --> 01:52:11.140

Phil: And it was developed by Paul Schneff.

01:52:11.900 --> 01:52:17.300

Phil: It has four stages in all, featuring a vert half pipe, a couple of pools, a mega.

01:52:23.880 --> 01:52:33.280

Phil: And certainly, it's probably, as its influence, immediately when I hear about four levels, it reminds me of a game like Skate or Die back on the Commodore 64.

01:52:34.880 --> 01:52:37.380

Phil: So, yeah, so you've been playing this on PC?

01:52:39.340 --> 01:52:39.860

Tom: I have indeed.

01:52:39.900 --> 01:52:42.640

Phil: And that's the only platform on which it is available.

01:52:44.880 --> 01:52:47.480

Phil: And, yeah, so how does it actually control?

01:52:47.500 --> 01:52:49.280

Phil: Are you using a controller or...?

01:52:50.060 --> 01:52:50.800

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:52:50.820 --> 01:52:53.580

Tom: You can use a keyboard, but I would not recommend that.

01:52:54.560 --> 01:52:58.780

Tom: And the way it controls is what makes it so enjoyable and interesting.

01:53:02.040 --> 01:53:09.880

Tom: Essentially, when you begin at the top of a ramp, obviously, regardless of the level, then you drop in.

01:53:10.860 --> 01:53:15.380

Tom: And when you drop in, you want to be...

01:53:16.920 --> 01:53:18.680

Tom: You have a button which forces...

01:53:18.920 --> 01:53:23.520

Tom: which makes the character crouch and put their weight to the front of the board.

01:53:24.900 --> 01:53:29.000

Tom: And that's what you use whenever you're just rolling around pre-jump.

01:53:29.020 --> 01:53:32.340

Tom: So when you land, you want to be crouching a little.

01:53:32.580 --> 01:53:35.980

Tom: Then when you hit the ramp, you want to raise yourself up a bit.

01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:48.980

Tom: Then at the middle, and as you begin to go up the ramp, you then want to release that and straighten out once again, thus giving you a little bit more momentum as you go up the ramp and you're about to jump.

01:53:50.320 --> 01:54:02.260

Tom: So that basic thing creates a really enjoyable and satisfying rhythm that is not there in most skateboarding games that are not necessarily from an isometric perspective.

01:54:02.820 --> 01:54:17.640

Tom: And when you are jumping, you can then obviously rotate in the air and do a variety of simple tricks just using the right thumb stick or grind using, I think, the right bumper.

01:54:17.700 --> 01:54:21.020

Phil: So how do you do when you're up in the air, how do you do a 540?

01:54:21.040 --> 01:54:23.800

Phil: I mean, what is the mechanics for actually achieving that?

01:54:25.360 --> 01:54:34.080

Tom: You hold left or right in the direction you want to spin for the correct amount of time to be able to do that many rotations and land safely.

01:54:34.100 --> 01:54:34.820

Phil: It looks amazing.

01:54:34.860 --> 01:54:36.020

Phil: It looks really fun.

01:54:36.100 --> 01:54:39.520

Phil: How's the sound in it?

01:54:41.020 --> 01:54:42.900

Tom: The sound is very satisfying.

01:54:42.920 --> 01:55:00.100

Tom: The sound of the wheels going over the lip as you jump and land is really chunky and nice, and there's a very gravelly, woody sort of noise as you roll along the pools or the wood of the ramps.

01:55:01.760 --> 01:55:05.760

Phil: In terms of the vibration in the controller, is there much done there?

01:55:07.960 --> 01:55:09.840

Tom: There is a little from what I remember.

01:55:09.860 --> 01:55:19.600

Tom: I don't think they do that much, but if they are doing much, it's enough that it is not that memorable, yet not at all intrusive.

01:55:19.940 --> 01:55:26.140

Tom: I think the main focus on it is definitely in the sound.

01:55:26.280 --> 01:55:28.260

Phil: The name of the game is The Ramp.

01:55:28.280 --> 01:55:32.900

Phil: It's available on Steam for $8.50 Australian, so it's a pretty good pick up.

01:55:32.920 --> 01:55:34.320

Phil: It's developed by HyperParadise.

01:55:34.340 --> 01:55:40.340

Phil: It just came out last week and has overwhelmingly positive reviews from 532 users.

01:55:40.360 --> 01:55:47.220

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, it looks very, very interesting, but how much, I mean, is it very sticky?

01:55:47.340 --> 01:55:50.160

Phil: I mean, is this something that you'd go back to necessarily?

01:55:50.440 --> 01:55:53.340

Phil: And what length are the play sessions?

01:55:53.360 --> 01:55:54.840

Phil: Is this a five-minute game?

01:55:55.600 --> 01:55:56.340

Phil: And then you're done?

01:55:56.900 --> 01:55:57.200

Phil: Or...?

01:55:58.660 --> 01:56:04.720

Tom: For me, it is most enjoyable in maybe sessions of 10 minutes to half an hour.

01:56:06.960 --> 01:56:10.720

Tom: But I think it is just enjoyable if you just play it for a few minutes as well, though.

01:56:11.260 --> 01:56:14.460

Phil: And the developer describes it as a digital toy.

01:56:15.660 --> 01:56:16.020

Tom: Yes.

01:56:16.480 --> 01:56:18.700

Tom: Well, there's no career mode or anything like that.

01:56:19.320 --> 01:56:22.240

Tom: There are just, correct, there are just the levels.

01:56:22.260 --> 01:56:25.520

Phil: A lot of games, other than Homefront, not a lot of games have a career mode.

01:56:26.760 --> 01:56:27.060

Tom: Yes.

01:56:28.240 --> 01:56:29.820

Tom: Well, Art of Rally has a career mode.

01:56:29.840 --> 01:56:31.080

Phil: Oh, does it?

01:56:32.240 --> 01:56:33.000

Phil: North or South?

01:56:36.240 --> 01:56:37.580

Tom: West and East as well.

01:56:37.780 --> 01:56:38.800

Phil: There's no West Korea.

01:56:42.540 --> 01:56:43.700

Tom: I said Art of Rally.

01:56:44.460 --> 01:56:44.840

Phil: All right.

01:56:44.860 --> 01:56:46.620

Phil: So do you have anything else to say about the RAM?

01:56:48.420 --> 01:57:03.500

Tom: Yeah, just that, again, while there is no career mode or no scoring, that does actually put the focus on the mechanics and just trying to jump as high as possible and get as much rotation as you can.

01:57:04.720 --> 01:57:22.880

Tom: And the two pool levels can be really satisfying because due to the size of them, depending on how you're going through the levels, it can be really difficult to keep up a good amount of speed to be getting good jumps consistently.

01:57:23.880 --> 01:57:32.820

Tom: So it is tremendously simple, but a really enjoyable and unique take on skateboarding in games.

01:57:33.520 --> 01:57:34.160

Phil: Oh, excellent.

01:57:34.320 --> 01:57:37.540

Phil: And obviously it's a work of passion.

01:57:38.400 --> 01:57:44.960

Phil: It's averaging 9 out of 10 on Steam, amongst Steam users, so that's high praise.

01:57:44.980 --> 01:57:47.100

Phil: And, you know, that's probably why I've been hearing about it.

01:57:47.120 --> 01:57:51.380

Phil: So I'm glad that you highlighted it here at the end of the show.

01:57:51.400 --> 01:57:55.760

Phil: And since I've already done the outro, all I have to say to you is I'm Phil Fogg.

01:57:56.900 --> 01:57:58.760

Tom: And I'm about to roll the die of destiny.

01:57:58.780 --> 01:57:59.440

Phil: On The Ramp.

01:58:03.820 --> 01:58:04.840

Tom: Six out of ten.

01:58:06.240 --> 01:58:09.460

Tom: So the dice has not been kind today.

01:58:09.560 --> 01:58:10.000

Phil: No.

01:58:10.020 --> 01:58:12.240

Phil: It's kinder than it usually is.

01:58:12.280 --> 01:58:16.540

Phil: But still, yeah, not keeping up with the Steam users.

01:58:16.540 --> 01:58:17.760

Phil: But all right.

01:58:18.120 --> 01:58:18.660

Phil: Very good.

01:58:19.420 --> 01:58:20.800

Phil: Could it have been done on mobile?

01:58:21.520 --> 01:58:22.360

Tom: I would say it could.

01:58:22.500 --> 01:58:31.360

Tom: But I think it would have been probably pretty awkward because you could certainly do the basic skating mechanic.

01:58:31.660 --> 01:58:58.540

Tom: I think if you're then adding the rotation as well as tricks is where things become, I think, pretty awkward because the fact that you do have to be paying as much attention to what you're doing between the jumps makes it a lot more complicated than most skateboarding games, which I think would be difficult to translate on a screen.

01:59:00.020 --> 01:59:02.420

Phil: Now all you need to say is, I'm Tom Towers.

01:59:05.040 --> 01:59:05.700

Tom: I'm The Ramp.