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Introduction
0:00:20 Hi
First Impressions - Both Hosts
0:00:55 Art of Rally - Switch and PC
0:01:55 Rally Car Racing
0:04:40 Phil copies Tom's Homework
0:06:15 Tom's Views
0:12:10 Kenya Dig It? (New Kenya DLC)
ASMR and Whiskey Update
0:17:20 Just for Keen Listeners
0:20:25 Sky News Update (the game, not the network)
First Impressions - Both Hosts
0:21:45 Hot Shot Racing & Comparitive Analysis of N64 and PS1/ Arcade Games
0:23:00 Top Gear Overdrive N64 Burros and Hotdogs
0:25:15 Hot Shot Racing
0:27:10 Speed Devils & Speed Busters
0:37:00 Need For Speed: Heat
0:43:00 Wipeout
Final Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:44:20 Jason Schreier's New Book Press Reset
0:47:45 The Atlantic, ACLU and The New Yorker walk into a Bar
First Impressions - Both Hosts
0:51:15 Back to Hot Shot Racing and Arcade Racing
Food Review - Tom Towers
0:53:00 ASMR Food Test - Vegan Fish (Phil is Disgusted)
1:01:45 Honkey Doree Gets a Coveted "Repeat Eat"
Trademark Banter
1:02:00 Giantbomb.com Cleans House with Bleach
1:05:20 Top Three Tourism Promoters
1:05:55 Not For Sale Anecdote
1:10:00 Jeff Gerstmann Animosity
1:15:10 No Clip
Final Thoughts - Tom Towers
1:22:45 Omno on PC
1:23:25 Tim Keenan
Off Topic
1:27:35 Twitter @gameunderphil
1:28:30 Say What You Will About Homefront
1:30:50 Back to Twitter
Final Thoughts - Tom Towers
1:34:30 The Last Stop
1:42:35 Gamespot as Internet Incubator
First Impressions - Tom Towers
1:50:35 The Ramp
Transcript
Phil: Hi, everyone, this is Phil Fogg.
Phil: Welcome to episode 137 of Australia's longest-running video game podcast, The Game Under Show, The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: Ah, Tommy, you're still there, mate, after all those false starts.
Tom: Yes, I am, and I just assume that's gonna be the one long cold open.
Phil: Well, no, certainly none of the audience will get to hear any of that stuff.
Phil: Well, I might put it at the end of the show, but the important thing is we are recording Australia's longest-running video game podcast.
Phil: And I've got to admit that since the last recording, I've probably spent more time editing our podcasts than I have been playing video games, in at least new ones.
Phil: I've been mostly playing Yakuza Like a Dragon.
Phil: But today, actually, you turned me on to the fact that a game that you had reviewed some time ago, Art of Rally, is actually now being brought out on the Switch and PlayStation 4 and Xbox.
Phil: It previously was not on that platform. So I was able to download it and play a small part of it.
Tom: Well, it's finally had its console release after being previously only on PC.
01:24.420 --> 01:26.580
Phil: It's from the team called Funselektor.
01:27.260 --> 01:29.180
Phil: And I'm assuming that they're Finnish.
01:30.080 --> 01:31.020
Tom: I think so.
01:31.040 --> 01:32.840
Phil: I mean, the game does start.
01:33.480 --> 01:34.560
Tom: It is a rally game.
01:35.160 --> 01:35.500
Phil: Yeah.
01:35.620 --> 01:40.120
Phil: And did they invent, did Finland invent rally?
01:40.800 --> 01:41.340
Phil: The sport of rally?
01:41.360 --> 01:44.000
Tom: I don't think they invented it, but they mastered it.
01:44.300 --> 01:44.780
Phil: Okay.
01:45.180 --> 01:48.680
Tom: And they did invent some disciplines of it, at least.
01:48.920 --> 01:57.800
Phil: We should say the Art of Rally is a video game that's basically based on the motorsport of rally art or, I'm sorry, what do you call it?
01:57.980 --> 01:59.740
Phil: Rally car racing or?
01:59.760 --> 02:01.760
Tom: I think you call it rally racing.
02:01.880 --> 02:02.700
Phil: Rally racing.
02:02.940 --> 02:03.460
Phil: I don't know why.
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Tom: Or simply racing.
02:04.600 --> 02:06.200
Tom: I mean, oh sorry, or simply rally.
02:06.220 --> 02:07.460
Phil: Just rally, right?
02:07.620 --> 02:07.980
Tom: Yes.
02:08.140 --> 02:12.760
Tom: Or if it was an Olympic sport, it might be called sport rally.
02:13.020 --> 02:14.300
Phil: Or rally car racing.
02:15.440 --> 02:19.140
Phil: I don't know why everything I say today sounds ridiculous, but anyway, rally racing.
02:19.760 --> 02:21.460
Tom: So it's just like any other episode.
02:22.240 --> 02:31.800
Phil: Which is a really fascinating thing to watch on television, and it's been emulated in video game form for a long period of time.
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Phil: I believe one of our top 10 hardcore games of all time was one that you introduced that's in the genre.
02:41.260 --> 02:41.840
Phil: Isn't that right?
02:42.780 --> 02:43.580
Phil: One of your favorites?
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Tom: Oh, Richard Burns Rally, are you thinking of?
02:46.980 --> 02:48.180
Phil: Yeah, Richard Burns Rally.
02:48.200 --> 02:51.520
Phil: I mean, it's been a part of video gaming for quite a time.
02:53.420 --> 03:02.120
Phil: And then, of course, I've reviewed RC Pro-Am several times on the, well, I went through all of the RC Pro-Am games.
03:02.140 --> 03:05.920
Phil: Now, of course, that's remote control cars, so it's not really the same thing.
03:06.480 --> 03:13.720
Phil: But funnily enough, Art of Rally does have that same top-down perspective.
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Phil: It's not really isometric.
03:15.380 --> 03:20.000
Phil: It's just the camera's pulled way back as if you were following this from a helicopter.
03:20.780 --> 03:28.300
Phil: So you're not actually driving it in first person or just in third person behind the car like most racing cars, racing games.
03:29.440 --> 03:41.120
Phil: And the Art of Rally is kind of a two-for-one because it's describing the game's very unique and beautiful art style.
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Phil: It's no textures at all, at least in the way that you'd think of them traditionally.
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Phil: Everything is very flat, lots of flat modeling and very ambitious, I'd say, but also in terms of development, it lends focus on the physics of the game, which is obviously what the whole point of the game is.
04:07.060 --> 04:07.920
Phil: Is that right?
04:07.940 --> 04:10.020
Phil: Because I've only played it for like 20 minutes.
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Phil: You've obviously played it enough to write a review of it at gameunder.net.
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Tom: So I may only have played it for 20 minutes, is what you're saying as well.
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Phil: I think the primitive colours and impressionistic fidelity of the rally stages and vehicles are easy to harmonise with the dreamy and big goodies of the synthwave soundtrack.
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Tom: You're impressively eloquent there, I have to say.
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Phil: But also, you know, the anti-lag intake noises and exhaust note and squealing of...
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Tom: It complements the music wonderfully, doesn't it?
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Phil: It does.
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Phil: I mean, it easily finds its niche, you know, in the eclectic percussion.
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Tom: I'm blown away by your eloquence there.
04:58.180 --> 04:59.160
Tom: That was so wonderful.
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Tom: It was as if you were reading off a script.
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Phil: It's almost as if I'm reading a review off of a website.
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Phil: But, you know, I've got to say the world of Art of Rally, just from what I've seen, is indeed gorgeous.
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Phil: But what I want to know is, does the perspective of the...
05:21.040 --> 05:24.260
Phil: like, do you get to unlock stuff later on?
05:24.260 --> 05:27.060
Phil: Because it is quite basic to start with.
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Phil: And I don't feel like I'm even playing with a Tinker toy.
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Phil: It doesn't feel...
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Phil: other than that the...
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Phil: and honestly, I'm not reading your review anymore, but as you can tell.
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Phil: But other than the sound and the use of the vibration in the Switch, which I've got to say is exceptional, they've obviously used all the tools that are available for them on the Switch, in terms of using the vibration ability of the Switch controls or the Switch controller.
06:00.760 --> 06:08.820
Phil: Besides that, there's nothing really there to impress me so far.
06:09.980 --> 06:14.760
Phil: And I've got to think that that's only because over time, different things are going to be unlocked.
06:16.100 --> 06:28.140
Tom: Well, I think what you need to do is to alter the driving settings, because the default settings from what I can remember are extremely arcady.
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Tom: If you change that to most of the simulations, then it is a genuine simcade game, and that is where, other than the aesthetic of it, the main appeal lies.
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Phil: I think it's much like another game that we've both been playing that we'll be talking about later in the same genre, and that's Hot Shot Racing.
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Phil: I mean, it has a lot of similarity to it.
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Phil: Would you say that Hot Shot Racing is a simcade?
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Tom: No, I would not.
07:05.660 --> 07:06.620
Tom: I would certainly not.
07:06.640 --> 07:08.360
Phil: You're just going to say pure arcade.
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Tom: That is a pure arcade game.
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Tom: Which I believe was their intention.
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Tom: And I sincerely hope was their intention.
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Phil: We'll get to that later on.
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Phil: Okay, so it's not that I will unlock things.
07:20.820 --> 07:22.600
Phil: It's just a matter of the settings.
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Tom: Well, what you will unlock as you go along is cars and rallies.
07:28.140 --> 07:31.540
Tom: So you unlock more locations and more vehicles.
07:32.560 --> 07:34.280
Tom: You don't unlock more.
07:34.480 --> 07:35.260
Tom: Well, you do.
07:35.260 --> 07:36.400
Tom: You unlock free roam.
07:36.840 --> 07:37.700
Tom: So that's one thing.
07:37.720 --> 07:48.700
Tom: But the main appeal is not unlocking different gameplay modes, but unlocking the rallies as you go along in different places.
07:48.720 --> 07:52.220
Tom: So that's what the career mode consists of.
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Tom: Then the main appeal that results in a fair bit of depth to it.
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Tom: The campaign maybe takes 10 to 15 hours or so.
08:01.500 --> 08:06.280
Tom: I played it for 25 hours, I think, according to Steam.
08:06.280 --> 08:23.720
Tom: And the reason for that is the main appeal is, other than the aesthetic, the driving physics, which with the right sort of settings are actually very deep and it becomes really enjoyable to be trying to beat the times of other players.
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Phil: Yeah, so it's got basically stability assist, which controls the car's rotation.
08:30.880 --> 08:33.700
Phil: You can help tune oversteer and understeer.
08:34.120 --> 08:38.200
Phil: Countersteer factor, which is interesting.
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Phil: It's currently set at 160% with stability assist at 100.
08:44.260 --> 08:48.180
Phil: Anti-lock braking is at 50% by default.
08:49.100 --> 08:53.700
Phil: And transmission, you know, automatic or manual, the option.
08:53.720 --> 08:55.020
Phil: So did you play it manual?
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Tom: Is there traction control?
08:57.780 --> 08:59.820
Phil: Not under the gameplay settings, no.
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Tom: But to answer your question, I did indeed play in manual, of course.
09:04.000 --> 09:04.540
Phil: Okay.
09:05.080 --> 09:10.720
Tom: And I would have to check what the settings are, but I think stability management was off completely.
09:14.360 --> 09:27.980
Tom: Countersteer, I think I had that on to some degree, due to without playing with a wheel, obviously that is what straightens your wheels out when you stop steering, if I remember correctly.
09:28.380 --> 09:31.620
Tom: But I would need to check the fine details of what they are.
09:31.640 --> 09:39.600
Tom: But there would also be steam guides around that would be suggesting what the optimum settings were as well.
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Tom: And the other thing as you are going along though is, also bear in mind that the cars you begin with are extremely slow.
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Tom: But part of the appeal there is where they are from in rally history.
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Tom: So that is still enjoyable.
09:56.920 --> 10:03.420
Tom: And I have to ask you, where did you end up, what difficulty are you playing on and where did you end up in your first rally if you have completed it?
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Phil: Well, obviously I think in the first 20 minutes it is just open world play where you are going around collecting photo points and the words rally, not unlike in RC Pro Amp.
10:15.480 --> 10:16.820
Tom: That would be right, yep.
10:16.840 --> 10:20.720
Tom: So you have not actually started the game, essentially.
10:20.740 --> 10:21.020
Phil: No, no.
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Tom: That is the tutorial.
10:22.100 --> 10:23.900
Phil: No, I am just trueling around in the tutorial.
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Phil: Now, it does offer online support as well.
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Tom: The online support consists of not racing against other players, but time attack against them.
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Tom: So each rally stage will have a leaderboard for the fastest times on it.
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Tom: And then there are also online events, which is you, but not at the same time, rallying against other players.
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Tom: And I think that's the main online components of it, if I remember correctly.
10:57.320 --> 11:01.420
Tom: And once you get into it, the leaderboards were very enjoyable.
11:01.440 --> 11:05.460
Tom: I managed to get into...
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Tom: I think I got one stage top once, and I got into the top ten on quite a few occasions.
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Tom: But as time progressed, people got progressively better and better, of course.
11:15.540 --> 11:19.100
Tom: But I was still managing to keep up somewhat with the top 100.
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Tom: I returned to try out some of the Kenya update, which I will comment on in a moment.
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Tom: And horrifically, I came in two rallies, seventh against the highest AI difficulty and tenth in another one.
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Tom: So I have rather forgotten my skills in Art of Rally, unfortunately.
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Phil: Well, I've got to say, I just restarted it to check the camera options.
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Phil: And by default, they have it set at four.
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Phil: There are eight different...
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Tom: You can zoom in and out.
11:49.780 --> 11:50.260
Phil: Exactly.
11:50.360 --> 11:51.920
Phil: So I switched it over to two.
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Phil: And that's much more pleasing.
11:54.500 --> 11:56.500
Phil: And I'd probably zoom it in a little bit.
11:56.520 --> 11:59.520
Tom: It will not be once you start driving faster.
11:59.540 --> 11:59.920
Phil: Okay.
11:59.940 --> 12:02.480
Phil: Because you need to see the longer range.
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Tom: Correct.
12:02.820 --> 12:02.960
Phil: Yep.
12:03.560 --> 12:05.800
Phil: And yeah, I was just playing the Kenya mode.
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Phil: So you have downloaded the update and tried the Kenya mode?
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Tom: Yes, I have.
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Phil: The Kenya mode.
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Phil: The Kenya stage.
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Tom: Yes.
12:16.280 --> 12:20.080
Tom: It's a whole rally consisting of, I think, six stages.
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Tom: That may be wrong, but around that, it's like six or eight stages, and it also introduces, I think, four cars, three in Group B and one in Group 4, unless it's six cars, then it's five in Group B and one in Group 4.
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Tom: And I've driven a Group B car and a Group 4 car, and the Group B car, compared to many of the Group B cars, was very easy to control.
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Tom: So I have to try more of them, because part of the appeal of the Group B cars is the difficulty in controlling them.
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Tom: But the Group 4 car was suitably oversteery and difficult to control.
13:00.420 --> 13:19.080
Phil: I've got to say, if anyone has any concerns about the fidelity, the visual fidelity, or the frame rate, or anything like that on the Switch, because the Switch has less technical chops than pretty much every other platform that this game is available on, do not be concerned.
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Phil: It's wonderful.
13:21.480 --> 13:28.720
Phil: And, you know, probably the visual style of the game helps with that, but it just flows very nicely.
13:28.740 --> 13:31.500
Phil: It was a quick download, easy install.
13:32.460 --> 13:40.780
Phil: It's available on the store for 25 bucks in Australia, so I can't imagine that's the same in the US, but, you know, certainly a good value.
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Phil: You can see that it's deep.
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Phil: You can see that this is going to get a lot of playtime put into it, which is also perfect for the Switch because it lends itself to portable play and playing just before you go to bed and all that sort of thing.
13:58.360 --> 14:01.840
Phil: So in that sense, I'd recommend it.
14:03.380 --> 14:04.760
Tom: So it's a good first impression.
14:04.960 --> 14:05.820
Phil: Yeah, definitely.
14:05.900 --> 14:15.760
Phil: And these guys, I remember from your original review as well that FunSelector had made a similar game but set in an urban environment prior to this.
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Phil: Is that how you came to know them or was it you went back to that after you played this?
14:26.720 --> 14:28.140
Tom: That was Absolute Drift.
14:28.380 --> 14:28.700
Phil: Yep.
14:29.940 --> 14:33.080
Tom: And I played that before Art of Rally.
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Tom: Not too long after release, if I remember correctly.
14:39.540 --> 14:42.460
Tom: So I was highly anticipating Art of Rally.
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Tom: And Art of Rally is superior in pretty much all areas.
14:48.680 --> 15:08.540
Tom: So it is a tremendously impressive follow up to Absolute Drift, which was an extremely unique and enjoyable arcade racing game in which you were drifting the entire time and just trying to get the highest score.
15:09.140 --> 15:20.700
Tom: While it was a little bit more arcade than Art of Rally, there was enough to it that, again, that was extremely easy to get into, getting as high as possible on the leaderboards.
15:21.540 --> 15:26.020
Phil: Yeah, I'm just on their website now trying to figure out, you know, who they are and where they're from.
15:26.040 --> 15:28.340
Phil: They seem to be a fairly small team.
15:30.360 --> 15:39.400
Phil: There's a founder, vehicle and general artist, developer, developer, developer, sound like Bauma now, developer, producer, creative director.
15:39.420 --> 15:45.300
Phil: But, you know, it's like six or eight different people, which I'm sure if we checked out the credits, they'd all line up.
15:45.320 --> 15:57.780
Phil: Because it's kind of funny that, like, a small, maybe it's not funny at all, but, like, you know, they're like now a driving studio or something like that, you know, so it'd be interesting to see what their next step is going to be.
15:59.060 --> 16:02.680
Phil: But, yeah, you've got to appreciate what they've done here.
16:03.120 --> 16:03.920
Phil: Do you have...
16:03.940 --> 16:05.720
Tom: Do you find out if they were from Finland or...?
16:05.740 --> 16:08.120
Phil: Well, it's not very clear on their website where they're from.
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Phil: You know, there's a mention of New Zealand in there, so I feel terrible.
16:12.960 --> 16:22.300
Tom: I'm going to guess they're probably not from Finland, because two of the main people behind Art of Rally are Dune, Casu and Adrian Tassel.
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Phil: Is there anything else you want to say about this before we go on to the next topic or next game?
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Tom: Well, I must add that they may be a PC case, because in Googling or searching on Bing for Dune, Casu to try and find out his origin, the first result was for the Dune Pro Power to Choose case by dunecase.com, which is a PC case that's engineered for a range of industry standard parts.
16:58.100 --> 17:02.460
Phil: Well, that could explain perhaps the elemental art style.
17:02.860 --> 17:05.780
Phil: So you think this game was made by artificial intelligence?
17:06.500 --> 17:07.900
Tom: It may well have been.
17:08.780 --> 17:09.480
Phil: Interesting.
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Phil: They should have put that on the front of the box.
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Phil: They probably would have sold some more copies.
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Phil: Well, I'm sure that's selling well, because they're obviously porting it over to all these new platforms.
17:21.840 --> 17:25.920
Phil: So I understand that your ASMR session from last time has continued.
17:26.860 --> 17:28.520
Tom: Well, it's been going on in the background.
17:28.540 --> 17:29.740
Tom: So keen listeners...
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Phil: That's a reward for keen listeners, is it?
17:33.040 --> 17:33.400
Tom: Yes.
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Tom: That's right.
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Tom: Obviously there's nothing in the content for them to pay attention to.
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Phil: Keen listeners may recall that I drank whiskey on this show for the first time in my life.
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Tom: What are you drinking today?
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Phil: You may not remember, but my first impression of whiskey was not very good.
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Phil: In fact, I think I said it tasted like mothballs.
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Tom: Yes, you did.
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Phil: But then I went on and, you know, I'm not a big drinker of whiskey.
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Phil: But, you know, if I need a break from beer or whatever, I will try a different kind of whiskey.
18:09.520 --> 18:18.040
Phil: Today I'm trying Sheep Dog, which is whiskey with natural flavors, and it's peanut butter whiskey.
18:18.800 --> 18:20.340
Tom: So it's not sheep dog flavor.
18:20.360 --> 18:23.980
Phil: It doesn't taste or smell like a sheep dog, like most whiskey.
18:24.480 --> 18:25.500
Tom: What about lanolin?
18:26.180 --> 18:27.660
Phil: No, it doesn't smell like lanolin.
18:28.480 --> 18:30.720
Tom: So there's nothing sheepy about it at all.
18:30.780 --> 18:32.740
Phil: It's a product of the United States.
18:32.760 --> 18:39.380
Phil: I was going to say the United States of the United States, but it's a product of the USA, United States of the USA.
18:40.500 --> 18:41.840
Tom: Do they not have sheep there?
18:45.000 --> 18:48.960
Phil: I'm sure there are some sheep, but I haven't seen any over there.
18:48.980 --> 18:50.680
Tom: There are at least a lot of sheeple, I've heard.
18:50.700 --> 18:52.600
Phil: Oh, sheeple, there you go.
18:52.920 --> 18:54.780
Phil: Yeah, so this is peanut butter whiskey.
18:54.880 --> 18:58.140
Phil: So the obvious question is, does it taste like peanut butter?
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Phil: And yeah, a little bit.
19:01.980 --> 19:06.880
Phil: It tastes more like Kahlua, like a Kahlua, Kahlua kind of thing, really.
19:07.820 --> 19:09.780
Tom: Is it better or worse than the last one?
19:10.440 --> 19:17.320
Phil: It's better than the first whiskey I drank, which was Ballentine's, which was terrible.
19:18.100 --> 19:20.040
Phil: But yeah, it's okay.
19:20.060 --> 19:20.720
Phil: It's obviously not a...
19:21.380 --> 19:23.040
Phil: You're not drinking it because it's a whiskey.
19:23.060 --> 19:26.360
Phil: It really does just taste like one of those liqueurs, so...
19:27.220 --> 19:28.960
Tom: And Ballentine is in Yakuza.
19:28.980 --> 19:29.920
Tom: I don't think this one is.
19:30.260 --> 19:31.520
Phil: No, no, this is a...
19:32.440 --> 19:43.580
Phil: Even though it's from a real company in the US, it's, you know, whiskey drinkers would be equally appalled that I'm drinking this as they were when I described Ballentine's as tasting like mothballs.
19:44.240 --> 19:50.380
Phil: So, yeah, this is probably not one I'm gonna go back to, but it was too novel not to try.
19:50.400 --> 19:53.280
Tom: So you're just gonna leave it on the shelf with Ballentine's?
19:53.380 --> 19:55.820
Phil: No, I'll drink it all probably during this episode, so...
19:57.640 --> 19:58.680
Tom: And how big is the bottle?
19:59.260 --> 20:04.120
Phil: Let's see, it's got 19 standard drinks in it.
20:04.640 --> 20:06.620
Phil: So that's 700 milliliters.
20:08.680 --> 20:10.660
Phil: It's 35% alcohol by volume.
20:11.480 --> 20:14.140
Phil: So maybe that's all at the bottom of the bottle.
20:14.720 --> 20:15.820
Phil: We'll find out today.
20:15.840 --> 20:17.240
Tom: So you need to shake it up first.
20:17.260 --> 20:17.840
Tom: Yeah, shake it up.
20:18.580 --> 20:21.620
Tom: Pro tip when drinking whiskey, shake the bottle first.
20:22.920 --> 20:23.360
Phil: Exactly.
20:25.520 --> 20:30.140
Phil: So now, I haven't gotten very far with Sky.
20:30.840 --> 20:33.080
Tom: Well, I have successfully added you as a friend.
20:33.160 --> 20:33.460
Phil: Right.
20:34.260 --> 20:38.120
Tom: But you, I don't think you've been back onto it since then.
20:38.300 --> 20:39.640
Phil: I've tried to...
20:39.660 --> 20:42.880
Tom: Is that a coincidence or a deliberate attempt to avoid you?
20:42.900 --> 20:44.560
Phil: No, no, I've tried two or three times.
20:44.800 --> 20:49.520
Phil: I've played it two or three more times and tried to friend you, but I haven't seen you in there.
20:49.580 --> 20:52.000
Phil: So you don't have to be online for me to friend you.
20:52.020 --> 20:53.820
Phil: I just got to look up at the sky, right?
20:54.880 --> 20:56.420
Tom: And is there no one there?
20:57.040 --> 21:09.320
Phil: There's a bunch of people named Phil Fogg because when I was first playing the game and going up to people, when it put up the option for a name, I thought it was asking me for, you know, what's my name?
21:09.420 --> 21:11.000
Phil: So I'd say Phil Fogg.
21:11.020 --> 21:14.980
Phil: So now I've named all the people that I've met Phil Fogg.
21:15.680 --> 21:21.320
Phil: Apparently they allow duplicate entries in their database because all my friends are called Phil Fogg.
21:22.840 --> 21:24.120
Phil: I may have called you Phil Fogg.
21:24.140 --> 21:25.780
Phil: Maybe that's why I can't find you either.
21:26.560 --> 21:27.980
Tom: That's what I'm thinking may have happened.
21:28.220 --> 21:29.080
Phil: No, no, no.
21:29.120 --> 21:30.920
Phil: I haven't named anyone yet.
21:31.060 --> 21:35.740
Tom: So I think the only solution to this is to be online at the same time.
21:35.880 --> 21:36.860
Phil: OK, yes.
21:37.060 --> 21:39.440
Phil: Possibly with you talking to me, telling me what to do.
21:40.700 --> 21:41.280
Tom: Correct.
21:42.280 --> 21:44.480
Phil: OK, so what's the next game you want to talk about?
21:45.620 --> 22:05.600
Tom: Well, while we're on the topic of racing games, and you did bring up Hot Shot Racing, I recently, and by recently I mean several months ago, if not last year, was playing Horizon Chase Turbo Top Gear on the SNES and Need for Speed Heat.
22:06.400 --> 22:08.540
Tom: And more recently I have tried Hot Shot Racing.
22:08.840 --> 22:19.020
Tom: Now all of those games, except for Need for Speed Heat, are either in the old classic style of arcade racing or are copying it, are they not?
22:19.480 --> 22:20.440
Phil: What was the first one?
22:21.320 --> 22:24.380
Tom: Horizon Chase Turbo was one, another is Hot Shot Racing.
22:25.060 --> 22:30.380
Tom: And one that is not on the surface of it in that style that I played was Need for Speed Heat.
22:31.360 --> 22:34.500
Phil: Yeah, I think I'd say that that's true.
22:34.560 --> 22:57.020
Phil: Like when I'm playing, when I played Hot Shot Racing, and we've got to say this is a game developed by Sumo Digital who, their claim to fame was, well, they started out by doing OutRun 2006, which was the first OutRun game in several decades, or a couple of decades.
22:57.560 --> 23:03.380
Phil: And they've done masterful games like Sonic and Sega All Star Racing and others as well.
23:04.980 --> 23:09.000
Phil: And then the other developer, just to give them credit on this game, was Lucky Mountain Games.
23:09.000 --> 23:16.340
Phil: But when I was first playing it, this struck a chord with me of the N64 racing games.
23:16.360 --> 23:19.420
Phil: The N64 had lots and lots of arcade races.
23:20.800 --> 23:29.560
Phil: Most notably, at least in terms of its popularity, was the Cruzen series, Cruzen the USA, Cruzen the World, Cruzen Exotica.
23:30.540 --> 23:35.400
Phil: Top Gear was also a popular arcade racer.
23:37.040 --> 23:39.200
Tom: Was there a Nintendo 64 version of that?
23:39.480 --> 23:41.660
Phil: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:42.540 --> 23:47.100
Phil: There was two Top Gear games released on the N64, which were quite good.
23:49.560 --> 23:52.520
Phil: And it also had some rally games as well.
23:54.120 --> 23:55.980
Phil: But in terms of arcade races...
23:56.400 --> 23:58.640
Tom: Top Gear Overdrive and Top Gear Rally.
23:58.660 --> 24:01.580
Phil: Yes, I played Top Gear Overdrive a fair bit.
24:02.460 --> 24:05.780
Tom: I have also played that a lot in A Myers.
24:07.480 --> 24:10.260
Tom: And also, I think, Top Gear Rally as well.
24:10.980 --> 24:18.680
Phil: You could unlock a drivable hot dog and a burro as well.
24:18.700 --> 24:23.460
Phil: A burro that had four wheels on its hooves.
24:25.100 --> 24:29.340
Phil: And they had customizable horn sounds as well for those novelty cars.
24:31.000 --> 24:31.720
Phil: You might recall...
24:31.740 --> 24:34.220
Tom: And your cars did explode if you crashed as well.
24:34.460 --> 24:36.400
Phil: Well, of course, what else is a car going to do?
24:37.760 --> 24:40.500
Phil: But when I was playing this...
24:40.820 --> 24:45.300
Tom: And I also think there was a Hummer, which was a viable vehicle in a race.
24:45.360 --> 24:49.580
Phil: Yeah, the Rush series was also very big on the N64.
24:52.080 --> 24:54.680
Phil: Adventure Beetle Racing was another one.
24:56.440 --> 25:05.000
Phil: So when I played this, the fact that it is bringing up so much nostalgia is because obviously they referenced a lot of these games.
25:05.160 --> 25:08.160
Phil: And for you, you have a different field of reference.
25:08.180 --> 25:12.960
Phil: For me, this most closely reminded me of the Cruzen series.
25:14.640 --> 25:16.940
Phil: But we should probably say just a little bit about it.
25:17.200 --> 25:18.940
Phil: It is like Art of Rally.
25:19.140 --> 25:20.940
Tom: Are you referring to Hot Shot Racing here?
25:21.060 --> 25:21.780
Phil: Yeah, I'm sorry.
25:21.800 --> 25:22.200
Phil: Did you want to...
25:22.280 --> 25:27.240
Tom: That is certainly closer to Cruzen rather than Top Gear.
25:27.380 --> 25:27.900
Tom: That is right.
25:27.920 --> 25:28.100
Phil: Yes.
25:28.320 --> 25:28.640
Phil: Yeah.
25:28.720 --> 25:34.460
Tom: But Horizon Chase Turbo is much more in line with Top Gear.
25:35.560 --> 25:36.000
Phil: Okay.
25:36.100 --> 25:36.480
Phil: Okay.
25:36.540 --> 25:37.040
Phil: I get you.
25:40.260 --> 25:56.880
Phil: So I've been attracted to Hot Shot Racing from the second it was announced, not only because it was from Sumo Digital, which has done uniformly great driving games, but also because, you know, there hasn't been a lot of purely arcade games, driving games around.
25:57.640 --> 26:02.940
Phil: And it's playing on nostalgia, but it's also giving you an outlet to play a type of game that doesn't really exist anymore.
26:04.360 --> 26:13.420
Phil: And to me, it reminded me of the Doom demakes, such as last year, my Game of the Year.
26:13.440 --> 26:14.120
Phil: What was it called?
26:15.100 --> 26:15.660
Tom: What was it?
26:15.680 --> 26:16.560
Phil: I played it on Switch.
26:16.700 --> 26:18.640
Phil: It was the Doom demake that you recommended.
26:19.980 --> 26:21.620
Tom: Oh, yes, yes, yes.
26:22.120 --> 26:22.940
Tom: Project Warlock.
26:22.960 --> 26:24.360
Phil: Project Warlock, exactly.
26:24.360 --> 26:28.160
Phil: So this to me is like a Project Warlock for arcade racers.
26:30.220 --> 26:41.720
Phil: And again, no texture, just like the Art of Rally, which has to contribute to its, you know, really great frame rate and speed.
26:43.580 --> 26:48.600
Phil: And obviously, drifting is a big part of it, which wasn't a part of the Cruis'n series.
26:49.520 --> 26:53.140
Tom: And it runs, however, on PC, not very well.
26:53.400 --> 26:53.900
Phil: Oh, really?
26:54.180 --> 26:54.660
Tom: Correct.
26:54.680 --> 27:09.520
Tom: There are, and this is a problem a lot of people have had, occasional inexplicable moments of slowdown, which are certainly not being caused due to the rendering power required.
27:10.340 --> 27:20.020
Phil: Another game that this reminded me of was a game that you probably never played called Speed Devils, which was a Ubisoft game released on the Dreamcast.
27:21.660 --> 27:24.180
Phil: It was outstanding as an arcade racer.
27:24.300 --> 27:30.020
Phil: And the thing that it most reminds me of in this game is the levels.
27:30.580 --> 27:33.860
Phil: The levels are all in these, you know, exotic locations.
27:34.560 --> 27:41.920
Phil: I've got to say Daytona USA on the Saturn is obviously another great reference for this game.
27:43.440 --> 27:46.080
Phil: But enough waxing nostalgic.
27:46.100 --> 27:46.780
Phil: Does it work?
27:46.800 --> 27:48.980
Phil: Does it work as a game?
27:50.580 --> 27:56.500
Phil: Since it came out, I think it's pretty transparent that they're trying to turn this into a service game.
27:57.000 --> 28:03.860
Phil: You know, a game that will never end in the same category as Rocket League.
28:03.860 --> 28:10.060
Phil: It's very clear that they're trying to make this into an online game that's going to have a following.
28:10.080 --> 28:13.440
Phil: And I've got to say, they've added additional modes since it first started.
28:14.240 --> 28:20.340
Phil: The one thing that they haven't appeared to add, and you've played more of this than me, is the car models.
28:20.680 --> 28:25.280
Phil: It appears to be the same original seven or eight characters.
28:25.960 --> 28:28.600
Phil: Have they added any additional cars since the beginning?
28:28.620 --> 28:33.360
Phil: Because I think you start out with an option of four different cars per personality.
28:34.460 --> 28:35.080
Tom: And I think there are...
28:35.200 --> 28:37.560
Tom: Is it four or are there more personalities?
28:37.620 --> 28:38.040
Tom: Well, you...
28:39.080 --> 28:40.900
Phil: More personalities is like eight of them.
28:41.120 --> 28:48.240
Tom: Yeah, so four times eight is a reasonable amount of cars for an arcade game, I would say.
28:48.260 --> 28:52.340
Tom: And it is in fact possible that you have played it more than I have.
28:53.500 --> 29:02.540
Tom: And just for the record, while I have not played Speed Devils, I have played the original Speed Busters that Speed Devils was a port of.
29:04.480 --> 29:04.780
Tom: Yes.
29:04.900 --> 29:06.660
Phil: So did you like that or?
29:08.540 --> 29:14.020
Tom: It was, I have only played it very briefly because when I bought it, it would not run on my PC.
29:14.600 --> 29:33.900
Tom: But I've played it via GOG and still it is, as you described with the locations in the Dreamcast version, I believe they're pretty much the same, very visually appealing in terms of the tracks and cars and the general visual style.
29:33.920 --> 29:45.120
Phil: Yeah, there was a, it was on the Dreamcast and it was one of the games, one of the first games that had multiple different ways to get through the courses.
29:45.780 --> 29:49.000
Phil: There was lots of shortcuts and they were all thematic.
29:49.180 --> 29:59.320
Phil: So, you know, if you're in, they had one that was set in LA that basically drove you through all the major, you know, landmarks of Los Angeles.
29:59.500 --> 30:01.940
Phil: They had one in Mexico that was really great.
30:02.180 --> 30:08.200
Phil: The Mexico one was on a dirt track, I remember, and had completely different physics.
30:08.220 --> 30:13.440
Phil: And, you know, a lot of the great things about these old arcade races was the music and the voice samples.
30:14.000 --> 30:17.620
Phil: And that's something that's been brought over to Hot Shot Racing as well.
30:17.640 --> 30:22.160
Phil: These ridiculous voice samples that come up throughout the game.
30:22.180 --> 30:39.500
Phil: I remember that in Cruisin the World in the Australia level, when kangaroos were running onto the track or jumping around and going on the track, they actually had the sound effect of boing.
30:40.040 --> 30:49.500
Phil: So as the kangaroos moved, they'd go boing, boing, boing, which is something that I still do whenever I see a kangaroo.
30:50.440 --> 30:57.420
Phil: So I'm obviously still not a real Australian, and that's something I've been able to pass on to family members as well, that picked up that thing.
30:58.780 --> 31:09.140
Tom: And for once, the addition of Australian native animals to an Australian setting is accurate, as kangaroos are a regular feature at Bathurst.
31:10.320 --> 31:10.700
Phil: Are they?
31:10.920 --> 31:11.640
Phil: I did not know that.
31:13.880 --> 31:17.740
Phil: This game, like tell me, are all the upgrades cosmetic?
31:19.200 --> 31:20.240
Tom: Well, here's the thing.
31:21.480 --> 31:23.180
Tom: I've played very little of this game.
31:23.200 --> 31:27.000
Tom: This was in fact a comparative analysis between these several games.
31:27.020 --> 31:31.000
Tom: It was the direction this was going in, but we're taking it in another direction again.
31:31.020 --> 31:33.060
Tom: No, we will end up...
31:33.300 --> 31:36.900
Tom: We're taking another brief moment just to appreciate Speedbusters here.
31:38.760 --> 31:40.240
Tom: Slash Speed Devils.
31:40.260 --> 31:51.420
Tom: And I don't know if this was also in Speed Devils, but Speedbusters has one of the greatest live action video game intros of all time.
31:51.440 --> 32:01.920
Tom: Anyone who has not seen that, just look up Speedbusters intro on YouTube and prepare yourself for an entertaining ride.
32:02.140 --> 32:09.840
Phil: I tell you what, I'll just make a note to embed that into our front page for this show.
32:09.860 --> 32:15.560
Tom: Unfortunately, it looks like Speed Devils does not have the same framing or intro.
32:16.260 --> 32:19.200
Phil: No, there's no intro like that, just great music.
32:20.660 --> 32:41.320
Phil: So, you know, I feel terrible because we've spent most of this time just talking about the great games that this game references, but like the big selling point for this game is nostalgia and tapping into what people liked about those old games and basically bring them into the new generation.
32:42.500 --> 32:44.780
Phil: And I think on that level, it completely succeeds.
32:44.800 --> 32:46.140
Phil: I find myself...
32:46.160 --> 32:53.200
Tom: And you missed one clear reference, which is in the visual aesthetic, and that is to Interstate 76.
32:53.220 --> 32:54.180
Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah.
32:55.160 --> 32:55.740
Phil: Again, we...
32:56.260 --> 32:59.920
Tom: Not just in the visual aesthetic, but also the character design as well.
33:00.600 --> 33:01.340
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
33:01.360 --> 33:03.060
Phil: And I'd say if you were looking at...
33:03.560 --> 33:06.960
Phil: Like, if you wanted to look at it, if you were to say, okay, what's this game look like?
33:07.300 --> 33:09.760
Phil: I think Daytona USA would be the first reference.
33:09.780 --> 33:15.700
Phil: It just looks like those Saturn games from Sega, like Virtua Fighter and Virtua Cop.
33:16.840 --> 33:21.780
Phil: Obviously, it's much higher fidelity and detail than those, but that's what they evoke.
33:22.520 --> 33:27.100
Tom: I wouldn't say it's higher fidelity than Daytona USA.
33:27.580 --> 33:29.400
Phil: This is, absolutely, yeah.
33:29.700 --> 33:30.540
Tom: I would not say that.
33:30.540 --> 33:31.960
Tom: It's certainly higher detail.
33:32.080 --> 33:32.500
Phil: Okay.
33:34.100 --> 33:36.080
Phil: I'd have to probably do a side by side.
33:37.340 --> 33:40.320
Tom: And arguably, it is not higher detail.
33:40.340 --> 33:45.220
Tom: It depends, certainly not compared to the actual arcade version of Daytona USA.
33:45.900 --> 33:49.280
Phil: Yeah, well, I only ever played the Saturn version, so...
33:49.720 --> 33:50.100
Tom: Okay.
33:50.200 --> 33:51.160
Phil: Yeah, you've got me on that one.
33:53.480 --> 33:55.720
Phil: I think it's a positive game, though.
33:55.740 --> 33:57.640
Phil: I think that I enjoy it.
33:57.660 --> 34:03.060
Phil: It's one of those games where if I'm on Steam and I see it sitting there, I will invariably play it.
34:04.240 --> 34:06.660
Phil: It is an easy game to get in and out of.
34:07.880 --> 34:18.260
Phil: And I think it succeeds, mostly because of its intelligent, you know, taking from other games of the genre and also just tapping into the experience that...
34:20.660 --> 34:25.420
Phil: the experience of the developers in this category.
34:25.480 --> 34:32.820
Phil: I mean, Sumo Digital has never made a bad racing game and certainly they've continued that with this one.
34:33.440 --> 34:34.320
Phil: Did you want to get back to...
34:34.340 --> 34:34.800
Tom: I would agree.
34:34.820 --> 34:37.280
Phil: Did you want to get back to your comparative analysis on this or...
34:37.300 --> 34:37.640
Tom: Yes.
34:38.000 --> 34:38.640
Tom: Yes, I do.
34:39.440 --> 34:49.380
Tom: So you said that it is a racing game in the style of racing games that do not really exist anymore, like, for instance, Project Warlock is to first-person shooters.
34:51.420 --> 34:54.440
Tom: And here is where actually I would disagree entirely.
34:54.940 --> 35:11.440
Tom: This was the interesting thing I noticed playing these games deliberately made in the style of a classic racing game, not too far apart from playing Need for Speed Heat, which is the latest Need for Speed.
35:11.980 --> 35:25.660
Tom: And Need for Speed Heat, in terms of the driving model, is actually very close to the likes of Horizon Chase Turbo and Hot Shot Racing.
35:26.060 --> 35:55.840
Tom: It is, I wouldn't even say more detailed than either of those, but essentially the way the racing works, even if you are not playing as a drift car, drift driving style, sorry, unlike in a slightly more simcade style of racing where there is some semblance of momentum and having to slow down a moving object before turning and that sort of thing.
35:56.620 --> 36:23.420
Tom: Here it is much more in the vein of Mario Kart, for instance, where it is not so much about accelerating a physical object, then slowing it down to be able to turn, then accelerating again, but moving through an environment where to turn, you get friction not through slowing down, but by grabbing hold of the ground and turning that way.
36:23.440 --> 36:44.360
Tom: So as you are going along, it is all about timing where you brake in the corner based on how sharp you want to turn, as opposed to how straight you want to keep your car going without losing as little speed as possible.
36:44.860 --> 36:52.480
Tom: So it's essentially the reverse way in which one approaches a more realistic racing game.
36:53.000 --> 37:18.060
Tom: And it is, other than visually, and the fact that the track is wider than Horizon Chase Turbo on top gear, and that it is a little bit slower than Hot Shot Racing and the difference between the speed of acceleration and slowing down is not as extreme as in Hot Shot Racing as well.
37:18.460 --> 37:23.820
Tom: It fits perfectly into the same category as those games.
37:23.920 --> 37:40.000
Tom: And I would argue, I think, captures better the feeling of a Nintendo 64 racing game in the vein of Cruis'n USA or even the SNES Top Gear.
37:40.360 --> 37:48.280
Tom: And the only other difference is that there is not the checkpoints with a timer counting down.
37:49.220 --> 37:58.300
Tom: However, depending on what the AI level is, there's nevertheless the same degree of pressure to be always having to be consistently fast.
38:00.500 --> 38:13.240
Tom: So I thought it was interesting that there is simultaneously this market for nostalgia, which presents itself as giving you an experience that you cannot get in modern racing games.
38:13.620 --> 38:24.140
Tom: But in modern racing games, for instance Need for Speed Heat, actually the gameplay has changed very, very little since the SNES.
38:25.820 --> 38:34.500
Phil: I've got to say, I've been like, I think a lot of people have probably not touched the Need for Speed series for a while.
38:34.760 --> 38:38.680
Phil: I have my favorite entries in it, which I'll talk about in just a moment.
38:39.380 --> 38:45.320
Phil: But I'm watching video of this, and pardon my French, but this looks fucking awesome.
38:45.540 --> 38:46.420
Phil: This looks great.
38:46.780 --> 38:49.020
Phil: So this is the 2019 Need for Speed.
38:49.040 --> 38:50.500
Phil: Yes.
38:51.220 --> 38:51.760
Phil: It looks great.
38:52.600 --> 38:53.600
Phil: This looks really good.
38:54.760 --> 38:59.980
Tom: It was surprising to me at how enjoyable it was because it is so arcade-y.
39:00.560 --> 39:19.040
Tom: And again, it's like a throwback to even older racing games because arcade racing games have changed over the years, but they've changed in the sense that new versions of them have appeared rather than old ones disappearing.
39:19.240 --> 39:40.900
Tom: That would be how I would read the arcade game market over the years, as opposed to something like first-person shooters where old styles of gameplay did indeed disappear and were completely replaced rather than different styles complementing old-school style first-person shooters.
39:41.300 --> 39:43.440
Tom: But so it is a throwback.
39:44.460 --> 40:02.480
Tom: The problem with Need for Speed is it markets itself as a throwback to Need for Speed, like Hot Pursuit or Need for Speed Underground and those sorts of ones, which are of the generation of racing games after Cruising USA.
40:03.140 --> 40:18.120
Tom: And that era, while there were still games in the very old style, had more elements of momentum in them and usually, I would say, less arcadey feeling tracks.
40:19.280 --> 40:28.520
Tom: Whereas this is not at all like Underground or like those Need for Speeds or Burnout, that sort of era.
40:28.900 --> 40:33.020
Tom: So I think that's where the problem for Need for Speed is.
40:33.360 --> 40:44.320
Tom: I also don't think you could really market Need for Speed as being a racing game in the style of games as old as Top Gear or Cruisin.
40:44.860 --> 40:59.040
Tom: Because the Need for Speed people think of came after that and was actually innovating on those games and building new forms of arcade racing.
40:59.460 --> 41:00.700
Phil: I got a couple of funny things here.
41:00.720 --> 41:06.820
Phil: But first of all, we're talking about Need for Speed Heat, which was released on Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
41:07.120 --> 41:14.880
Phil: When you go to the wiki page for it, the plot section says, This article's plot summary may be too long or excessively detailed.
41:14.900 --> 41:19.420
Phil: Please help improve it by removing unnecessary details and making it more concise.
41:20.620 --> 41:24.780
Phil: Which sounds like my review of Driver San Francisco.
41:26.640 --> 41:27.600
Phil: Which was amazing.
41:27.620 --> 41:29.640
Phil: The story and that was one of the best parts about it.
41:30.700 --> 41:33.440
Tom: It also sounds like the actual plot in the game as well.
41:35.520 --> 41:36.160
Phil: That's great.
41:36.260 --> 41:38.540
Phil: Actually, you know, that'd be great for a review, wouldn't it?
41:38.560 --> 41:43.360
Phil: Now, in terms of how it was reviewed, IGN gave it the highest score of eight.
41:43.380 --> 41:44.640
Phil: Everyone else gave it a seven.
41:45.520 --> 41:46.300
Phil: Seven and a half.
41:46.320 --> 41:48.600
Phil: And that's where it is on Metacritic as well.
41:50.140 --> 41:57.240
Phil: Another interesting note about it, as I was reading here, is that it was the last Need for Speed game made by Ghost Games.
41:57.780 --> 42:04.260
Phil: And they'd been, yeah, they'd been closely tied to the franchise for some time.
42:06.560 --> 42:15.140
Phil: And they've given Need for Speed back to Criterion, which was, you know, there's no one obviously still at Criterion that made Burnout, but I'm sure there's someone is.
42:16.180 --> 42:28.500
Phil: But they made two of my favorite Need for Speeds recently, which was Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2010, which was outstanding, and Need for Speed Most Wanted in 2012.
42:28.880 --> 42:30.380
Phil: Those were, you know, my favorites.
42:33.480 --> 42:36.080
Phil: And the closest to the original Burnout games.
42:36.500 --> 42:38.080
Phil: I thought they were absolutely great.
42:39.020 --> 42:42.200
Phil: So not only did they kick Ghost Games off of the franchise.
42:43.000 --> 43:10.380
Tom: That just reminds me though, one last interesting thing on the evolution of racing games is the Burnout era of arcade racing followed on from Wipeout, where it became about maintaining as much momentum and speed as he could rather than any sort of slowing down for corners to be able to turn at a certain degree.
43:10.400 --> 43:14.540
Phil: You're talking about Wipeout, the video game, not the TV game show.
43:14.920 --> 43:15.520
Tom: Correct.
43:15.540 --> 43:22.200
Phil: Because it also applies to that, which is keeping your momentum, not slowing down, is the key, especially on the punching wall.
43:22.600 --> 43:23.340
Phil: You know the wall...
43:23.360 --> 43:24.460
Tom: You know from experience.
43:24.480 --> 43:25.140
Phil: Well, you know the wall.
43:25.160 --> 43:26.860
Phil: It's got the punching things that come out of it.
43:26.960 --> 43:27.400
Tom: Yes.
43:27.420 --> 43:28.200
Phil: They fall into the mud.
43:28.220 --> 43:29.800
Phil: The key there is either to take...
43:30.000 --> 43:31.000
Phil: Just take a...
43:31.400 --> 43:34.840
Phil: I don't know why people don't go straight into the mud and just run across the mud.
43:35.180 --> 43:42.500
Phil: But if you are going to take the high road and keep out of the mud, so to speak, basically go as fast as you can and keep your momentum.
43:42.560 --> 43:44.860
Phil: And that's true on the big balls as well.
43:46.080 --> 43:47.460
Phil: You know, you've just got to keep going.
43:49.400 --> 44:00.080
Phil: But back to my point, not only did they take them off the franchise, they reduced Ghost Games to an engineering studio for the Frostbite engine.
44:00.100 --> 44:03.340
Phil: I mean, if that's not enough, they took their name off them.
44:05.000 --> 44:09.980
Phil: They took Ghost Games' name off them and called them back to their original name EA Gothenburg.
44:11.740 --> 44:13.360
Phil: That's not nice.
44:13.960 --> 44:15.260
Phil: That's not a very nice thing to do.
44:15.280 --> 44:18.160
Tom: Well, it is EA, so...
44:18.180 --> 44:18.980
Phil: Well, it is EA.
44:19.660 --> 44:21.100
Tom: They may have got off lucky there.
44:22.160 --> 44:26.960
Phil: I've talked to you and our listeners before about Jason Schreier's book.
44:27.260 --> 44:30.200
Phil: I think it's called Sweat, Blood and Pixels, which is a really...
44:30.220 --> 44:33.080
Tom: I thought it was called Stay Out of the Mud and Take the High Road.
44:33.120 --> 44:36.020
Phil: Stay Out of the Mud and Take the High Road.
44:36.040 --> 44:37.560
Phil: Sweat, Blood and Pixels.
44:37.580 --> 44:41.760
Phil: I just finished reading the sequel to that, which I thoroughly recommend.
44:42.660 --> 44:47.080
Phil: If you listen to this podcast, you're probably going to be interested enough to read that book as well.
44:47.800 --> 44:56.240
Phil: It also talks about the foibles of game development, but most notably the downfalls of it as well.
44:56.340 --> 44:58.320
Phil: It's still an interesting read.
44:59.000 --> 45:04.320
Phil: What I particularly did not enjoy about it is that the last chapter turns into a complete editorial.
45:04.700 --> 45:12.920
Phil: So it goes from basically straight reportage to the last chapter switching to it.
45:13.120 --> 45:17.720
Phil: Here's how we should fix the whole video game industry.
45:17.980 --> 45:19.160
Phil: We need to unionize.
45:19.580 --> 45:20.540
Phil: We need to do this.
45:20.560 --> 45:21.280
Phil: We need to do that.
45:21.500 --> 45:23.040
Phil: It's like, what are you doing?
45:23.540 --> 45:24.400
Phil: What are you doing?
45:24.800 --> 45:26.540
Phil: I mean, you're a writer.
45:27.480 --> 45:29.060
Phil: That can't work, right?
45:29.520 --> 45:41.000
Phil: Or could this conglomeration actually be a good form of writing, where you go straight from direct reportage into editorial?
45:41.440 --> 45:41.940
Phil: I don't know.
45:42.260 --> 45:44.160
Phil: I did not appreciate it at all.
45:44.420 --> 45:45.440
Phil: I thought it was weird.
45:45.740 --> 45:48.600
Tom: It certainly could be if you're not Jason Schreier.
45:48.920 --> 45:49.280
Phil: Yeah.
45:49.680 --> 45:50.080
Phil: I think...
45:50.100 --> 45:52.840
Tom: I think that is the main issue there.
45:52.920 --> 45:54.480
Phil: If you had it as a...
45:55.300 --> 45:59.640
Tom: And I cannot imagine reading a Jason Schreier book, I have to say.
45:59.940 --> 46:02.880
Phil: It's got a lot of juicy details in it.
46:02.900 --> 46:03.740
Phil: That's why I read it.
46:04.640 --> 46:09.360
Tom: Well, I'm sure it has a lot of details in it, but the question is how many of them are juicy.
46:11.220 --> 46:12.680
Phil: What's the opposite of an epilogue?
46:13.220 --> 46:13.780
Phil: Prologue.
46:15.580 --> 46:15.920
Tom: Yes.
46:16.200 --> 46:18.880
Tom: I'm not sure we would call it the opposite of one.
46:20.340 --> 46:22.480
Phil: It is the opposite.
46:23.220 --> 46:24.180
Phil: I think if it...
46:24.760 --> 46:27.980
Tom: Or would the opposite of an epilogue be having nothing at the end?
46:29.280 --> 46:30.760
Tom: That's what you have to wonder, you see.
46:30.780 --> 46:36.740
Phil: I think if he had just included it as that, like, OK, the book's over, now here's what I've got to say.
46:38.080 --> 46:39.680
Phil: I would have appreciated that a lot more.
46:41.680 --> 46:45.440
Tom: I'm just saying that's exactly what I would have expected from Jason Schreier.
46:46.360 --> 46:48.480
Tom: Not the content of it, just the...
46:50.640 --> 46:51.900
Tom: Again, this could...
46:52.020 --> 47:02.840
Tom: This can work if the person is a good writer, but random obnoxious structure is basically Jason Schreier's entire schtick.
47:03.820 --> 47:04.920
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
47:04.980 --> 47:12.560
Tom: I give him full credit for his content, but the way he presents it is just totally unreadable.
47:14.300 --> 47:19.260
Phil: I think, too, at this point, he's become bigger...
47:19.280 --> 47:20.600
Phil: He is Jason Schreier.
47:20.740 --> 47:31.040
Phil: So if you've got dirt on a developer, or you want to get a message out, he's the one that you go to, so it's kind of become a self-perpetuating...
47:32.240 --> 47:35.960
Tom: I just have to ask you, though, because you have mentioned...
47:35.980 --> 47:53.260
Tom: I don't know if it's on the podcast, I don't know if this has been brought up on the podcast, but you have told me numerous times in the past, so I assume that this has some sort of significance, if anyone is familiar with American culture, but you have told me that you have read The Atlantic on various occasions.
47:54.180 --> 47:56.600
Tom: Yes, as opposed to The New York Times.
48:00.240 --> 48:05.740
Phil: The Atlantic is now owned by Steve Jobs' wife.
48:05.760 --> 48:15.260
Phil: I can't vouch for it, because I used to be a subscriber and get the monthly magazine.
48:15.700 --> 48:16.660
Phil: It was wonderful.
48:17.940 --> 48:25.420
Phil: It had a good investigative journalist type thing, but also had some good fiction and short stories in it as well.
48:27.420 --> 48:31.320
Phil: I thought it was a good place to promote writing.
48:32.640 --> 48:33.940
Phil: I can't speak to it now.
48:34.200 --> 48:35.120
Phil: The New Yorker...
48:36.540 --> 48:38.580
Phil: I never really got what the New Yorker was.
48:40.520 --> 48:43.220
Phil: I don't think I could draw a comparison between the two.
48:44.040 --> 48:47.140
Tom: I think it's meant to be the same thing, just for different sensibilities.
48:47.580 --> 48:48.400
Phil: Yeah, maybe.
48:48.500 --> 48:48.960
Phil: I don't know.
48:49.180 --> 48:50.060
Phil: Anyway, wait.
48:50.100 --> 48:50.700
Phil: What's your point?
48:51.700 --> 49:05.520
Tom: My point is here, that Jason Schreier's writing is pure Atlantic essay style, including their investigative journalism.
49:05.860 --> 49:25.240
Tom: And it's actually a pretty common thing in American journalism that I've read anyway, where you will have a long, bloated investigation being reported that ends with an editorial telling you how to fix all of these problems that you discovered.
49:25.260 --> 49:27.220
Phil: Yeah, like Upton Sinclair, for example.
49:27.360 --> 49:31.260
Phil: So maybe it's the rich history of North East journalism.
49:31.260 --> 49:40.840
Tom: But see, the problem is simply Jason Schreier, is what I'm trying to get at here, is that it is obnoxious and jarring due to his writing ability.
49:41.120 --> 49:42.440
Phil: Okay, fair enough.
49:42.500 --> 49:42.820
Tom: Yes.
49:42.960 --> 49:46.760
Phil: But I think that the issue he has is he's a one trick pony.
49:48.500 --> 49:50.160
Phil: It's with one note at this point.
49:51.540 --> 50:10.940
Phil: And with The Atlantic, certainly it got to that way at times, where it was just basically like the ACLU, which I'm a big supporter of the ACLU, which American Civil Liberties Union, basically they fight for crazies on both extremes.
50:10.960 --> 50:12.140
Tom: Have they unionized?
50:13.900 --> 50:14.740
Phil: I don't think so.
50:15.260 --> 50:16.300
Tom: They are called a union.
50:17.300 --> 50:20.980
Phil: The name of the book is Press Reset, I should say.
50:21.800 --> 50:29.940
Phil: And I think that if you want to get some juicy, you know, insights into some major games and their development.
50:29.960 --> 50:41.660
Tom: I also believe that that was what PewDiePie was going to donate to after one of his anti-Semitic comments, until someone pointed out that they defend people against anti-Semitism, I think.
50:41.680 --> 50:43.020
Phil: Oh, and then he didn't?
50:43.920 --> 50:44.460
Tom: That's right.
50:44.480 --> 50:47.880
Phil: Okay, American Civil Liberties Union, aclu.org.
50:47.900 --> 50:48.460
Phil: Check them out.
50:48.480 --> 50:49.460
Phil: Make your own decision.
50:50.560 --> 50:53.340
Phil: Now, I don't know how we got on to Jason Schreier.
50:53.740 --> 50:54.720
Tom: Do your own research.
50:54.920 --> 50:57.380
Phil: Do your own research.
50:57.800 --> 50:59.000
Phil: I don't know how we got on to that.
50:59.020 --> 51:10.580
Phil: We were talking about Need for Speed Heat and also then talking about how my favorite Need for Speeds had been made by the criterion named Studio, Hot Pursuit and Most Wanted.
51:11.360 --> 51:15.600
Phil: But if you could please continue with your comparative analysis and how this all applied.
51:15.620 --> 51:48.340
Tom: I think that was probably the end of the comparative analysis, just simply that it was interesting that as part of the whole nostalgia craze that has been going on over the past 10 years to 20 years, it has now reached the genre of racing games where arcade racing games in a variety of old styles still exist and are made as entirely new games with modern aesthetics and sensibilities.
51:49.140 --> 52:11.220
Tom: And so it's understandable that they exist, that Hot Shot Racing exists, and that Horizon Chase Turbo exists as an aesthetic throwback, but as a gameplay throwback in terms of the actual gameplay, I think they are merely a competitor for the likes of Need for Speed Heat rather than games doing something different.
52:11.240 --> 52:13.140
Phil: Okay, fair enough.
52:13.920 --> 52:25.900
Tom: And of them all, I would argue that Need for Speed Heat captures the feeling and excitement of Top Gear or Cruisin better than the throwback games do.
52:25.920 --> 52:35.440
Phil: I've got to say on those throwback games, I recently put in Top Gear and also the Cruisin series for reasons I don't understand.
52:36.180 --> 52:40.180
Phil: They do actually hold up and that's probably no surprise to you, I don't know.
52:41.320 --> 52:42.240
Tom: Well, not at all.
52:42.260 --> 52:52.600
Tom: At least in terms of Top Gear, as I said, I was actually playing that on the SNES around the same time and it was still very enjoyable today.
52:52.620 --> 52:59.260
Tom: And it probably should not be too much of a surprise given the simplicity of the gameplay.
53:00.520 --> 53:06.820
Phil: I think before we get to The Last Stop, which is a game that you've been playing...
53:07.780 --> 53:20.840
Tom: It is, and before we do any of that, and then we are going to go directly into The Last Stop, I'll have to interrupt you there for our much delayed ASMR food test.
53:20.940 --> 53:21.440
Phil: Oh God.
53:21.820 --> 53:26.200
Tom: And this time you will be pleased to know that it is in fact a vegan dish.
53:26.560 --> 53:26.920
Phil: Good.
53:28.200 --> 53:34.580
Tom: It is a vegan fish, fried fish, from a shop called Hunky Dory.
53:35.600 --> 53:40.320
Tom: And I've never tried vegan fish before.
53:40.580 --> 53:50.820
Tom: I've tried vegan beef based, not based, beef inspired products, chicken inspired products and pork inspired products, but not fish.
53:50.840 --> 53:52.500
Tom: What is your experience with vegan fish?
53:52.560 --> 53:57.460
Phil: And when you talk about vegan fish, you're not talking about fish that don't eat animal products.
53:58.680 --> 53:58.940
Tom: No.
53:58.960 --> 54:00.420
Phil: Okay, you're talking...
54:00.500 --> 54:01.260
Tom: I'm speaking of a...
54:01.280 --> 54:01.840
Tom: A simulator.
54:02.640 --> 54:03.100
Tom: That's right.
54:03.880 --> 54:10.920
Phil: My experience with vegan fish would be limited to the candy Swedish fish, which is a vegan gummy.
54:12.260 --> 54:18.500
Phil: It's a pretty poor substitute for a gummy, but it is still vegan, which basically describes all of your choices as a vegan.
54:19.660 --> 54:23.100
Phil: Which is it's not as good as the real thing, but hey, it's vegan.
54:23.440 --> 54:31.400
Tom: I think with Swedish fish, though, that offers an interesting alternative, because this probably goes with most vegan food, actually.
54:31.480 --> 54:45.820
Tom: It is very much its own thing that is not like a standard gummy, where it is very hard and chewy, and you don't really get any sort of flavour until it has been well mashed up by your teeth.
54:46.120 --> 54:49.120
Phil: Oh, I wouldn't be that harsh on the old Swedish fish.
54:49.960 --> 55:07.040
Tom: No, but that's a good thing that is in contrast to a standard gummy, because you then get this sudden burst of flavour out of nowhere that you can then enjoy during the rest of the mouthful, rather than a gradual, consistent release that you get in a standard gummy.
55:07.060 --> 55:10.120
Phil: I've got to say, too, that I'm not an ethical vegan.
55:10.340 --> 55:12.160
Phil: I am a dietary vegan.
55:12.280 --> 55:14.560
Tom: You're a very unethical vegan.
55:14.580 --> 55:24.180
Phil: Yeah, so apparently being an ethical vegan is one of the ways you get out of getting the vaccine because it was tested on animals.
55:24.460 --> 55:26.620
Phil: So I did not know that.
55:28.020 --> 55:30.000
Phil: But I am not an ethical vegan.
55:30.080 --> 55:34.860
Phil: I don't eat meat and animal products based on ethics alone.
55:35.740 --> 55:38.380
Phil: It's mostly because I don't like meat.
55:38.420 --> 55:39.520
Phil: I don't like eating meat.
55:39.540 --> 55:41.980
Phil: I've never really appreciated the flavors.
55:42.000 --> 55:43.020
Phil: I don't like the texture.
55:43.900 --> 55:46.480
Phil: And then the concepts usually gross me out as well.
55:46.480 --> 55:48.420
Phil: Just knowing where that stuff comes from.
55:48.820 --> 55:53.760
Phil: I'm like, I don't want to eat it, you know, like eggs and milk and things like that.
55:54.000 --> 55:59.340
Phil: I just think it's conceptually, I guess I'm a conceptual vegan.
56:00.180 --> 56:06.620
Phil: Because I just don't, I don't want to drink milk that's coming out of another thing, you know, or anything.
56:06.820 --> 56:08.280
Tom: What do you want your milk to come out of?
56:08.300 --> 56:09.960
Phil: I don't want my milk to come out of anything.
56:09.960 --> 56:10.840
Phil: I don't want to drink it.
56:10.860 --> 56:14.800
Phil: I want my milk to come out of a soybean or an almond is where I want my milk.
56:15.620 --> 56:17.160
Tom: Well, that is coming out of something.
56:17.180 --> 56:23.680
Phil: Yeah, I've heard that described as nutsap, almond milk.
56:24.640 --> 56:27.020
Phil: So, but no, I don't like that.
56:27.040 --> 56:31.980
Phil: So, for me, like I have never liked fish, ever.
56:32.120 --> 56:37.720
Phil: As a child, I never liked fish, I never liked crab, I never liked prawns, I don't like any of it.
56:38.760 --> 56:45.080
Tom: You can really tell with the disdain in his voice there just how much he hates animals, confirming he is not an ethical vegan.
56:45.100 --> 56:45.800
Phil: An ethical vegan.
56:48.080 --> 56:51.440
Phil: I'm a vegan of convenience, you could say.
56:51.440 --> 56:52.260
Phil: But no, I...
56:52.520 --> 56:54.100
Tom: I think I prefer conceptual vegan.
56:54.240 --> 57:04.340
Phil: If someone were to make me a McFish, like a fillet of fish, which is apparently popular for old people at McDonald's, I wouldn't want it.
57:04.400 --> 57:05.220
Phil: I just wouldn't want it.
57:05.240 --> 57:06.360
Phil: I would have no interest in it.
57:06.940 --> 57:12.040
Phil: I would be more likely if someone came up to me and said, here's some crocodile meat.
57:12.340 --> 57:13.440
Phil: Would you like to try it?
57:14.580 --> 57:16.560
Phil: Even though I'm a vegan, I'd probably go, you know what?
57:16.640 --> 57:17.660
Phil: Yeah, I'll give it a try.
57:17.680 --> 57:19.060
Phil: I've never had crocodile meat.
57:19.220 --> 57:20.240
Phil: It could be a good story.
57:20.380 --> 57:28.980
Phil: I will try a small amount of crocodile meat just so I know what it tastes like if it comes up that I have to eat it out of necessity.
57:30.260 --> 57:36.500
Phil: But if someone came up to me and said, here's a fake fillet of fish, yeah, I would not eat it.
57:37.160 --> 57:38.480
Phil: I just would not eat it because I don't like fish.
57:39.160 --> 57:44.840
Phil: Now, I know that you like fish because you're eating flake or booty, flake booty.
57:45.680 --> 57:46.260
Tom: That's right.
57:47.320 --> 57:48.300
Phil: As it's called in India.
57:50.160 --> 57:51.160
Tom: But England.
57:51.700 --> 57:52.800
Phil: England, okay.
57:53.020 --> 57:53.400
Tom: Yes.
57:53.660 --> 57:57.580
Phil: Okay, so yeah, so does that answer your question about fish?
57:58.560 --> 58:02.980
Tom: Well, I will add that you are a pro-meat vegan.
58:03.700 --> 58:06.240
Tom: I am a pro-vegan meat eater.
58:06.260 --> 58:10.820
Tom: So I will say that vegans are ethically superior to non-vegans.
58:11.520 --> 58:12.420
Tom: But I eat meat.
58:13.380 --> 58:18.720
Tom: While you will say vegans are not ethically superior to vegans, but you do not eat meat.
58:18.740 --> 58:19.460
Phil: I think that...
58:19.480 --> 58:20.380
Tom: So together...
58:20.580 --> 58:21.340
Phil: We balance out.
58:22.100 --> 58:22.840
Tom: We balance out.
58:22.860 --> 58:26.920
Phil: Yeah, we're the yin and yang of vegan.
58:26.940 --> 58:28.680
Tom: Of failed ideals.
58:28.700 --> 58:28.960
Phil: Yes.
58:30.180 --> 58:34.060
Phil: But I would say that are vegans ethically superior to non-vegans?
58:35.460 --> 58:36.920
Phil: Ah, yes, I would say that they are.
58:39.380 --> 58:47.120
Tom: It depends though on what your belief on the agency and feelings of plants are.
58:49.340 --> 58:50.660
Phil: That's a topic for another day, Tom.
58:50.860 --> 58:53.360
Phil: So, okay, so you ate this fake fillet of fish.
58:53.960 --> 58:55.920
Tom: Well, I'm about to do it now live on air.
58:55.940 --> 58:56.240
Phil: Oh, okay.
58:56.960 --> 58:58.900
Phil: He's fishing for compliments, people.
59:00.140 --> 59:01.600
Phil: So, what would you call fake fish?
59:04.020 --> 59:08.000
Phil: I don't know if he's actually eating it now or if he's taking a break.
59:08.000 --> 59:10.080
Tom: I just took the first bite.
59:12.520 --> 59:14.560
Tom: Let's say it doesn't really taste anything like fish.
59:16.960 --> 59:22.660
Tom: The patty part of it has a texture that is perhaps somewhere between a white fish and chicken.
59:23.860 --> 59:31.920
Tom: The flavour is, I think, more in line with, say, a frozen chicken nugget than anything to do with fish.
59:32.860 --> 59:43.240
Tom: The very edge of the patty and the batter, I think, has the texture and a little bit of the taste of a frozen fish finger that has been toasted, though.
59:44.020 --> 59:45.180
Tom: So that is slightly fishy.
59:45.740 --> 59:48.480
Tom: I'm now going to add a lemon juice to it and try again.
59:48.500 --> 59:52.740
Phil: Did the lemon come from, um, what's the name of it, Hey, Djibouti?
59:52.760 --> 59:53.660
Phil: What's the place called?
59:54.060 --> 59:54.960
Tom: Honky Dory.
59:55.240 --> 59:56.960
Phil: Did the lemon come from Honky Dory?
59:57.080 --> 59:57.640
Tom: Yes, it did.
59:57.660 --> 59:58.040
Phil: That's nice.
59:58.060 --> 01:00.760
Phil: That's very nice.
01:02.760 --> 01:04.320
Phil: Did they give you a vinegar option?
01:05.360 --> 01:05.980
Tom: No, they did not.
01:06.000 --> 01:09.360
Phil: Would you eat balsamic vinegar with a fried fish product?
01:10.660 --> 01:11.320
Tom: Yes, I would.
01:11.340 --> 01:14.760
Tom: And that used to be a common thing that was offered at fish and chip shops.
01:14.780 --> 01:15.400
Phil: Balsamic vinegar?
01:16.380 --> 01:16.680
Tom: Yes.
01:16.700 --> 01:17.300
Phil: I did not know that.
01:17.520 --> 01:21.540
Tom: But, but that is, I don't know if balsamic vinegar, but vinegar in general.
01:21.560 --> 01:22.580
Phil: Oh, vinegar, yes, yes.
01:22.780 --> 01:23.040
Tom: Yeah.
01:23.640 --> 01:26.380
Tom: But that seems to be quite rare today in fish and chip shops.
01:26.400 --> 01:30.160
Phil: Well, they cut costs, you know, I mean, you have to buy the little tomato sauce sachets.
01:30.180 --> 01:31.240
Phil: Now those used to be free.
01:32.400 --> 01:32.700
Tom: Yep.
01:33.180 --> 01:45.940
Tom: So the second bite with the lemon juice on it, I think perhaps just due to the association between fish and lemon juice, does actually give it a slightly more fishy flavour to it.
01:47.020 --> 01:01:03.360
Tom: So I think if you bought this and added lemon juice to it, I think it does make for a satisfactory fake fish product and I think in terms of the protein you're getting from it, it's probably higher than in a standard fish of the same size.
01:01:03.380 --> 01:01:04.960
Phil: And most likely less mercury too.
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:08.740
Tom: Yes, but also less fatty acids.
01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:11.460
Phil: But the associated flavours thing, that certainly works.
01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:26.380
Phil: I know that in my experience with serving tofu scramble, which is basically like scrambled eggs made out of tofu, if you put on pepper and salt and tomato sauce slash ketchup, it really sells it.
01:01:26.740 --> 01:01:30.420
Phil: You know, then people are like, oh yeah, this really is just like scrambled eggs.
01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:32.180
Phil: It's like, no, it's just all the shit you put on it.
01:01:32.240 --> 01:01:34.240
Phil: It's just like the stuff you put on scrambled eggs.
01:01:36.240 --> 01:01:36.900
Phil: So yeah.
01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:43.180
Phil: Okay, so is that a thumbs, it sounds like probably not a repeat buy for Tom Towers.
01:01:45.140 --> 01:01:49.480
Tom: Solely because if I'm buying something from the chip shop, I'm doing it to get fish.
01:01:50.680 --> 01:01:53.100
Tom: But I would certainly eat that again for sure.
01:01:53.120 --> 01:01:57.340
Tom: So it would be a repeat eat, if not a repeat buy.
01:01:57.380 --> 01:01:58.160
Phil: Repeat eat.
01:01:59.100 --> 01:02:04.920
Phil: Speaking of repeat eats, I've got to say, this has been on the list for quite some time and I just want to cross it off.
01:02:06.200 --> 01:02:07.500
Phil: Giant bombed at gone.
01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:18.600
Phil: So you might recall from me several months ago that half the crew, well, most of the personalities associated with the site quit or were rousted.
01:02:20.380 --> 01:02:25.280
Phil: And it was kind of like, oh my gosh, you know, what's going to go on, you know, with giant bomb?
01:02:25.860 --> 01:02:32.620
Phil: Because I've got to say, there's less and less video game podcasts out there and giant bomb is, you know, the...
01:02:32.820 --> 01:02:34.660
Tom: Our strategy is simply to be the last one left.
01:02:34.680 --> 01:02:35.820
Phil: The last one standing, right.
01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:40.940
Phil: There, I mean, there are less and less choices for video game podcasts.
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:42.880
Phil: It's quite poor, really.
01:02:45.020 --> 01:02:49.060
Phil: Whereas, you know, podcasting has gotten bigger in every other sense in video game.
01:02:49.080 --> 01:02:56.700
Phil: It's just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk, probably because all of that audience has gone over to Twitch and in that form of, you know, content.
01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:07.960
Phil: So they had this big old podcast where they're saying goodbye to all the guys that they just fired and yeah, you know, oh, it's going to be tough.
01:03:08.080 --> 01:03:19.880
Phil: And on that podcast, two things stood out to me, one that there was one of the four people that left that said, hey, you know, just so everyone knows, this was my choice to leave.
01:03:20.640 --> 01:03:24.500
Phil: And the other three didn't say that, which was telling to me.
01:03:25.120 --> 01:03:33.480
Phil: And you know, it's it's the sort of thing it was like, oh, yeah, well, of course, you know, you know, and I just want to make clear that this is also my choice to leave.
01:03:33.500 --> 01:03:35.240
Phil: But you know, none of the others said that.
01:03:36.260 --> 01:03:40.800
Phil: So it's pretty clear that they got fired or laid off rather is more appropriate.
01:03:41.900 --> 01:03:46.440
Phil: And they had this this big long podcast about, oh, yeah, don't know what we're going to do without you guys.
01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:49.860
Phil: But obviously, we're going to have to change direction and everything else.
01:03:50.580 --> 01:03:58.140
Phil: And Giant Bomb had, you know, become increasingly woke, you know, with in terms of the personalities that they were showcasing.
01:03:59.220 --> 01:04:05.480
Phil: And it was also of note that none of the people left had anything kind to say about Jeff Gerstmann.
01:04:06.380 --> 01:04:07.260
Phil: Interesting.
01:04:07.500 --> 01:04:22.580
Phil: And at one point, one of the people leaving went out of their way to thank Jeff Bacalar, who was basically only very recently introduced to the Games Group for the company that they work for and say, yeah, since Jeff...
01:04:22.600 --> 01:04:23.980
Tom: Was he just called Jeff Bacalar?
01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:25.500
Phil: No, Jeff Bacalar.
01:04:28.100 --> 01:04:29.620
Phil: He's not a Greek confectionary.
01:04:32.660 --> 01:04:42.300
Phil: So and he like they went out of their way to thank him for everything he had done since he had joined the group and the support that they've gotten since he came on.
01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:45.760
Phil: So, you know, all that was interesting.
01:04:46.580 --> 01:04:49.560
Phil: And then I thought, okay, they're going to do a complete switch.
01:04:49.580 --> 01:05:01.020
Phil: Like, you know, everyone thought, oh, they're going to go to like a multi channel, you know, bring in new influences, diversify everything so that they have more people talking.
01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:11.740
Phil: And then the old crew will take a back seat to the editorial and just basically be directing the company, but they're going to make it newer and, you know, have all these younger people on and do all this stuff.
01:05:12.520 --> 01:05:23.760
Phil: On the very next episode, they basically announced, yeah, we've hired Danny, Danny O'Dwyer, which, you know, you've been a supporter of Danny Doherty's work for longer than I have.
01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:27.060
Tom: He is a visionary tourism.
01:05:27.080 --> 01:05:29.240
Phil: A way of getting money from tourist agencies.
01:05:29.260 --> 01:05:31.860
Tom: He's even more impressive than Scott Morrison.
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:36.000
Phil: Yes, or Crocodile Dundee in terms of getting people to go to countries.
01:05:36.020 --> 01:05:38.840
Tom: Those are probably the top three advertisers of all time.
01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:44.100
Tom: Scott Morrison, ScoMo, Crocodile Dundee and Danny O'Dwyer.
01:05:44.120 --> 01:05:48.200
Phil: Our current Prime Minister, and people must be wondering what's wrong with Australia.
01:05:48.220 --> 01:05:50.100
Phil: We've had the same Prime Minister for like two years now.
01:05:53.260 --> 01:05:59.380
Phil: But yeah, his way of attracting tourists to Australia is basically close the borders entirely in both directions.
01:06:01.180 --> 01:06:14.860
Phil: I drive to a city that's nearby to me about once a month, and they have this old rusted bulldozer in their front yard of a farm, and it has a sign on it that says not for sale, right?
01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:21.400
Phil: I can't believe how much interest that must draw to that bulldozer, right?
01:06:21.700 --> 01:06:29.720
Phil: And I was like, one of these days, they're going to take the knot off there, and they're going to sell this thing in like 30 minutes, because every time you drive by it, it says not for sale, not for sale.
01:06:29.740 --> 01:06:30.220
Phil: Yeah.
01:06:30.780 --> 01:06:33.920
Phil: So one day I drive by and the knot is not on there.
01:06:33.940 --> 01:06:34.920
Phil: It just says for sale.
01:06:35.100 --> 01:06:37.640
Phil: I'm like, holy hell, the bulldozer.
01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:39.160
Phil: I could go buy that bulldozer.
01:06:39.180 --> 01:06:42.980
Phil: So it turns out that the knot part had just fallen off.
01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:53.760
Phil: So it just tickles me that like, you know, because they wouldn't have known that the knot part had fallen off or folded over, right?
01:06:54.100 --> 01:06:59.580
Phil: So like they must have been inundated by people stopping their vehicle going, well, how much do you want for the bulldozer?
01:07:00.700 --> 01:07:04.480
Phil: You know, and then being angered because they had not taken.
01:07:07.180 --> 01:07:10.880
Phil: And all of a sudden they're inundated with people wanting to buy the bulldozer.
01:07:11.860 --> 01:07:15.980
Phil: So the next time I drove by there, they had a new not for sale sign on it.
01:07:16.980 --> 01:07:18.320
Phil: So the bulldozer is still there.
01:07:18.340 --> 01:07:26.340
Phil: That is Scott Morrison's advertising tactic for Australia is that basically you can't come here.
01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:27.980
Phil: No, I don't care.
01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:28.900
Phil: You can't come here.
01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:29.460
Phil: I don't care.
01:07:29.700 --> 01:07:30.920
Phil: I'm an Australian citizen.
01:07:30.940 --> 01:07:32.000
Phil: There's 80,000 of us.
01:07:32.020 --> 01:07:32.940
Phil: I'm dying in India.
01:07:33.260 --> 01:07:39.600
Phil: If you come here, we'll put you in jail and we'll fine you $12,000, but I want to come home.
01:07:39.620 --> 01:07:41.080
Phil: You can't come in.
01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:44.520
Phil: And I think, you know, it's got to be working.
01:07:45.260 --> 01:07:46.640
Phil: People have got to be wanting to come in.
01:07:46.660 --> 01:07:50.960
Phil: I mean, look at all the celebrities that are flying in on their own jets, you know, getting around it.
01:07:52.100 --> 01:07:54.360
Tom: So he truly is a marketing genius after all.
01:07:54.380 --> 01:07:54.860
Phil: After all.
01:07:55.180 --> 01:07:57.000
Phil: It's the bulldozer nut for sale tactic.
01:07:58.560 --> 01:07:59.140
Tom: The classic.
01:07:59.160 --> 01:07:59.620
Phil: The classic.
01:07:59.640 --> 01:08:00.640
Tom: From Edward Bernays.
01:08:02.260 --> 01:08:03.480
Phil: What were we talking about anyway?
01:08:03.520 --> 01:08:04.460
Phil: Oh, so anyway.
01:08:05.180 --> 01:08:13.700
Phil: So then they come back on the very next podcast after all of this self-flagellation and, oh my God, what are we going to do without you guys and all the rest of it?
01:08:14.020 --> 01:08:16.180
Phil: And they're like, OK, yeah, we've hired Denny O'Dwyer.
01:08:17.020 --> 01:08:29.640
Phil: And we're also bringing in Jeff Green, who is apparently the only older, whiter, more male person that they didn't have on staff already.
01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:36.140
Phil: And then we're bringing back Dan, whatever his name was, who was there.
01:08:37.340 --> 01:08:45.080
Phil: And they basically announced that they're bringing back all of their friends who are all middle-aged white guys, which is fine.
01:08:45.100 --> 01:08:47.240
Phil: I mean, they can run the business however they want.
01:08:48.500 --> 01:08:59.880
Phil: But it was just so funny because, you know, they'd been going in this direction of diversifying their staff for so long, and now they're all a bunch of middle-aged white guys and good on them.
01:08:59.940 --> 01:09:05.740
Phil: You know, I mean, you know, I think basically their strategy now is to put more things behind a paywall.
01:09:06.180 --> 01:09:14.060
Phil: And I've got to say they do have one Filipino-American working for them before someone sends me a, you know, thing saying, no, no, no, there is diversity there, so.
01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:16.800
Tom: But only one.
01:09:17.120 --> 01:09:17.700
Phil: Yeah, one.
01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:18.220
Tom: Yeah.
01:09:18.700 --> 01:09:22.500
Tom: You need to get at least two just so you don't get accused of token.
01:09:22.520 --> 01:09:28.440
Phil: Well, there's no gender mix, you know, there's no trans on staff, you know.
01:09:29.260 --> 01:09:30.340
Phil: They used to have a lesbian.
01:09:30.360 --> 01:09:31.780
Phil: They don't have a lesbian anymore.
01:09:32.320 --> 01:09:32.900
Phil: They used to have a...
01:09:33.160 --> 01:09:34.420
Tom: How come they don't have a lesbian?
01:09:34.620 --> 01:09:35.240
Phil: I don't know.
01:09:35.260 --> 01:09:39.400
Phil: I mean, we haven't had a lesbian, but obviously that's why we're being held back.
01:09:41.620 --> 01:09:45.100
Phil: We tried to have a lesbian, you know, I think...
01:09:45.300 --> 01:09:47.720
Tom: But unfortunately they were a lesbian, so it didn't work out.
01:09:48.360 --> 01:09:49.940
Phil: They are difficult to work with.
01:09:51.540 --> 01:09:52.660
Phil: That's a joke, you know.
01:09:53.240 --> 01:10:04.620
Phil: But in any case, I just had to get that off the topic list because it was just funny to me that they basically did a left turn and they dropped, you know, four of the main personalities from the site.
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:07.480
Phil: And, you know, they seem to be doing all right.
01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:11.880
Phil: I mean, the podcast is still listenable other than the Jeff Bacalar guy, so...
01:10:13.620 --> 01:10:14.860
Tom: I've heard he tastes good though.
01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:16.040
Phil: What's that?
01:10:16.420 --> 01:10:16.780
Phil: Oh, the...
01:10:17.260 --> 01:10:18.880
Tom: I said I've heard he tastes good though.
01:10:18.900 --> 01:10:19.640
Phil: The Baklava.
01:10:19.940 --> 01:10:21.000
Phil: Do you know what's in Baklava?
01:10:21.200 --> 01:10:23.160
Phil: It's mostly dates, isn't it?
01:10:23.180 --> 01:10:24.680
Tom: I think so.
01:10:24.700 --> 01:10:25.140
Tom: Yeah, all right.
01:10:25.340 --> 01:10:25.780
Phil: Fair enough.
01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:27.520
Phil: Okay, so what's the last...
01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:30.380
Tom: What do you think the Jeff Gertzman animosity was about?
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:31.660
Phil: What animosity?
01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:36.540
Tom: You just said they went out of their way of not saying anything nice.
01:10:36.560 --> 01:10:46.880
Phil: Look, Danny O'Dwyer did a doco in the early days of his, you know, endeavor on Jeff Gertzman.
01:10:48.360 --> 01:11:01.640
Phil: And after all the nice stuff, I think he did have to put in there, just for credibility purposes, towards the end of it, you know, there's basically 30 seconds where Danny says, now, I've got to say...
01:11:01.980 --> 01:11:02.740
Phil: That's terrible.
01:11:02.780 --> 01:11:04.720
Phil: My usual iris action is much better.
01:11:05.740 --> 01:11:11.320
Phil: But basically says, you know, Jeff Gertzman can be not the best, you know, the easiest person to get along with.
01:11:11.540 --> 01:11:13.700
Phil: He spends most of his days wearing headphones.
01:11:14.420 --> 01:11:17.740
Phil: And, you know, in his communications, they can be direct.
01:11:20.040 --> 01:11:22.600
<v SPEAKER_3>Jeff isn't the most social person you'll work with.
01:11:22.820 --> 01:11:27.980
<v SPEAKER_3>He commutes to and from Petaluma every day, a 40 mile drive during Bay Area rush hour.
01:11:28.360 --> 01:11:31.140
<v SPEAKER_3>Perhaps it's why he doesn't socialize much after work.
01:11:31.360 --> 01:11:34.160
<v SPEAKER_3>Or maybe it's a convenient excuse to not have to.
01:11:34.420 --> 01:11:37.680
<v SPEAKER_3>At his desk, he sits with headphones on, usually working on something.
01:11:37.900 --> 01:11:40.360
<v SPEAKER_3>When he talks to you, he speaks openly and honestly.
01:11:40.980 --> 01:11:42.700
<v SPEAKER_3>And when he doesn't want to talk, he doesn't.
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:52.980
Phil: So you know, I think he's just probably just like not a personality kind of guy other than when he goes on to the podcast.
01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:58.340
Phil: Apparently he doesn't say a lot when he's not in front of a camera or a microphone.
01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:03.560
Phil: And you know, there's nothing wrong with that.
01:12:03.620 --> 01:12:09.480
Phil: But I mean, you've got to get along with your if you've been working with people for 10 plus years, you've got to find a way to get along with them.
01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:19.440
Phil: I think also too, that basically he became a manager slash owner out of duress and he probably just prefers being a content creator.
01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:23.260
Phil: And then he got put into the position of being an owner slash manager.
01:12:24.200 --> 01:12:27.160
Phil: And he's probably not cut out for it, you know, and he didn't ask for it.
01:12:27.180 --> 01:12:28.200
Phil: But that's just very good.
01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:30.460
Phil: Now I hear you've rolled the die of destiny.
01:12:30.480 --> 01:12:31.960
Phil: So what score?
01:12:31.980 --> 01:12:35.760
Tom: We're going to have to rate Giant Bomb, I think.
01:12:36.940 --> 01:12:43.560
Tom: I just want to add quickly though, you said the last 30 seconds of credibility, they added the bit about Jeff Gershman there.
01:12:43.580 --> 01:12:53.780
Tom: I think the subtext there by the standards of Noclip is that he must have been murdering people in the studio basement or something.
01:12:56.220 --> 01:13:07.960
Tom: Because I think if you will recall on the ad for Ireland that he did, as well as about 30 seconds on George Romero or whoever he was ostensibly interviewing there.
01:13:09.540 --> 01:13:18.320
Tom: As well as 30 seconds for that, there was like a two second snippet saying that this sort of thing totally destroyed the Irish economy, move on instantly.
01:13:19.060 --> 01:13:27.840
Tom: So, if you're getting a full 30 seconds there, something serious must have been going on at Giant Bomb.
01:13:27.860 --> 01:13:28.520
Phil: Ando crime.
01:13:29.680 --> 01:13:30.100
Phil: Okay.
01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:30.980
Phil: All right.
01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:34.680
Phil: So, what score did you give my summary of the changes at Giant?
01:13:34.740 --> 01:13:36.520
Tom: No, this is a rating for Giant Bomb.
01:13:44.800 --> 01:13:46.760
Tom: They use the five-point scale, typically.
01:13:46.780 --> 01:13:48.260
Tom: That's a one out of five.
01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:50.460
Phil: Sounds about right.
01:13:50.480 --> 01:13:53.080
Tom: I think that's a fair rating.
01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:53.480
Phil: I think so.
01:13:53.500 --> 01:13:54.180
Tom: I think that is a fair rating.
01:13:54.200 --> 01:13:54.600
Phil: I think so.
01:13:54.660 --> 01:13:55.580
Phil: It's a good podcast.
01:13:56.980 --> 01:14:00.340
Phil: But I don't think they deserve the great community that they've got.
01:14:00.360 --> 01:14:02.600
Phil: They've got a really good community over there.
01:14:03.680 --> 01:14:04.680
Tom: Arnie is a big fan.
01:14:05.020 --> 01:14:05.280
Phil: Yeah.
01:14:06.160 --> 01:14:07.240
Phil: I am a big fan too.
01:14:07.260 --> 01:14:14.740
Phil: I mean, you know, I listen to almost anything they put out, but you know, there's not a lot out there to listen to these days.
01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:18.680
Tom: So you said they're putting a lot of stuff behind a paywall.
01:14:18.700 --> 01:14:20.840
Tom: Would you pay for any of their content?
01:14:21.460 --> 01:14:23.460
Phil: I don't have the time to pay for their content.
01:14:23.480 --> 01:14:29.480
Phil: Like if I had more time, I probably would throw a few bucks their way.
01:14:30.100 --> 01:14:35.320
Phil: But you know, the additional content, they've got some additional podcasts that they've added behind a paywall.
01:14:36.660 --> 01:14:43.520
Phil: If the video game podcasting, it's really like four shows that are worth listening to anymore, including our own.
01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:59.480
Phil: So if it gets much worse than I probably will, just so I have something else to listen to, because usually I'm listening to politics or sports or, you know, reference material or, you know, that sort of thing.
01:15:01.120 --> 01:15:09.380
Phil: So, you know, if I did need more content, I probably would pay the trivial amount that they're asking for to support their model.
01:15:10.400 --> 01:15:22.980
Tom: Before we move on from the real topic of this conversation, which is Noclip, I just have to add that the more one really thinks about the crowning achievement of Noclip, which was the Rocket League documentary.
01:15:23.280 --> 01:15:23.960
Phil: The first one.
01:15:23.980 --> 01:15:28.720
Tom: The more, yes, that's right, yep, and arguably their only good video.
01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:39.100
Tom: The more even that video kind of just comes across as very much an internally made making of documentary.
01:15:39.980 --> 01:16:07.860
Tom: Because while it did feature some, I mean it had a lot of content in it, while it did feature some potentially uncomfortable moments in it, everything was absolutely and totally spun into it being essentially a story of how amazing the company is and what they managed to achieve with the incredible excess of Rocket League and so on and so forth.
01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:10.700
Phil: Do you think that comes out of politeness?
01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:16.400
Phil: Like does that come out of, you know, the people from the UK just being polite?
01:16:16.520 --> 01:16:18.240
Phil: I mean does that carry over into Ireland?
01:16:18.260 --> 01:16:18.680
Phil: I don't know.
01:16:20.420 --> 01:16:31.940
Tom: I don't think politeness is a big thing in Ireland in the same way as in England anyway, but I think it comes from two things.
01:16:33.240 --> 01:16:50.520
Tom: One is I would say the newness of the medium because that was pretty much the first large quote investigative end quote journalist style things done on YouTube games criticism.
01:16:53.080 --> 01:17:05.900
Tom: And two, just the way that the games commentary industry works in conjunction with PR companies and with development studios.
01:17:05.940 --> 01:17:13.920
Tom: I doubt he would have been able to get the sort of access he had if he was not making something which was essentially an advertisement.
01:17:14.380 --> 01:17:32.360
Tom: Because the only thing outside of that where that where there is commentary on games that is not part explicitly of the marketing campaign for games is by random individuals, for example, Jason Schreier, who we were talking about earlier.
01:17:33.640 --> 01:17:38.520
Tom: Yeah, I think I think he got away with it just due to the change in the medium.
01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:48.120
Phil: I do think politeness does have something to do with it as well because I mean, he is relying 100% on studios giving him access.
01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:59.680
Phil: So the second he does a knife job on a studio that's let him in, I mean, you go in there, you meet everyone, you talk to them, you get to know them.
01:17:59.860 --> 01:18:03.240
Phil: I mean, it does make it difficult to do a slam piece on them.
01:18:04.060 --> 01:18:14.340
Phil: I mean, it does, for a normal human being, unless you're seeking attention, it does make it difficult to make it negative.
01:18:14.360 --> 01:18:21.060
Phil: But the other thing too is if someone's letting you have, quote, full access, how much negativity are you going to interact with?
01:18:21.080 --> 01:18:23.480
Phil: It's not like they're saying, oh yeah, you have full access.
01:18:24.200 --> 01:18:25.700
Phil: Here's our HR department.
01:18:25.720 --> 01:18:34.260
Phil: Just ask them whatever you want about issues that employees have had in the past, management decisions and things like that.
01:18:35.580 --> 01:18:38.640
Tom: I'm just saying that there should be some self-awareness of this.
01:18:40.480 --> 01:19:01.440
Tom: If you're visiting America on an official tour, or the Soviet Union on an official tour, or North Korea on an official tour, and you're going along seeing these areas, you would expect there for someone who calls themselves a games critic or journalist, there to be some self-awareness that this is occurring.
01:19:02.180 --> 01:19:03.300
Tom: That's all I'm saying.
01:19:03.320 --> 01:19:03.960
Phil: You are right.
01:19:04.020 --> 01:19:12.320
Phil: I mean, it would be good for him to say to people like, while he's interviewing them, since you've given me full access, let me just talk to you and, okay, and how'd you do this in the game?
01:19:12.340 --> 01:19:13.440
Phil: Oh, yeah, and how'd you do that in the game?
01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:22.100
Phil: Yeah, but sure, there must have been times where you would have preferred to have been home with your family and you stayed here because you felt pressured to stay here, right?
01:19:22.120 --> 01:19:25.340
Phil: So there are ways to get to that, right?
01:19:27.060 --> 01:19:29.580
Phil: And I'm sure you really enjoy working in the game industry.
01:19:30.140 --> 01:19:44.780
Phil: It's very rewarding to be in a creative endeavor, but it's certainly, you must know that you'd be making at least two times more if you're working in development for other software in other industries, right?
01:19:45.300 --> 01:19:54.220
Phil: And try and itch those scabs sort of thing to try and get them to say something on those topics and that just doesn't happen.
01:19:55.820 --> 01:20:10.600
Phil: And yeah, and it does hurt the content because certainly like I start watching a lot of no clip shows and then stop watching, you know, I don't watch them all the way through because they're clearly just advertising, you know, free advertising pieces.
01:20:11.240 --> 01:20:26.220
Phil: And the ones that were the most offensive to me or the least interesting to me was the stuff that he did with Bethesda, which was time and time again, just basically they were just like watching videos that the in-house.
01:20:27.240 --> 01:20:34.320
Tom: For instance, there surely he how did he miss the Bill Cosby pictures and everything?
01:20:34.740 --> 01:20:35.640
Tom: I don't understand it.
01:20:35.740 --> 01:20:36.520
Tom: How did he know it?
01:20:36.540 --> 01:20:37.080
Phil: Activision.
01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:41.960
Tom: Well, they owned by Bethesda, sorry, they owned Bethesda.
01:20:42.580 --> 01:20:44.100
Phil: No, Bethesda is owned by...
01:20:44.160 --> 01:20:45.840
Tom: Oh, wait, no, there's Zenimax.
01:20:45.860 --> 01:20:47.880
Phil: Zenimax is owned by Microsoft now.
01:20:48.300 --> 01:20:49.460
Tom: I stand corrected.
01:20:49.680 --> 01:20:51.360
Tom: They've got the Jeffrey Epstein poster.
01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:52.220
Phil: That's right.
01:20:52.240 --> 01:20:52.720
Tom: I'm sorry.
01:20:53.780 --> 01:20:57.200
Phil: Jeffrey Epstein room, yeah.
01:20:57.280 --> 01:20:59.440
Phil: I heard Bill Gates talking about that last week.
01:20:59.460 --> 01:21:00.160
Phil: It was interesting.
01:21:01.760 --> 01:21:05.360
Phil: Do you care or anything about the whole Activision thing or...
01:21:07.340 --> 01:21:09.580
Tom: Well, I mean, I've already made one joke about it.
01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:10.780
Tom: So do we need to make more...
01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:12.080
Phil: Not really, not really.
01:21:12.360 --> 01:21:15.320
Phil: It's an old trope at this point.
01:21:16.740 --> 01:21:20.040
Phil: But yeah, I think I do like Danny D'Andre.
01:21:20.080 --> 01:21:20.980
Phil: I've got to say that.
01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:24.780
Phil: I do think he's an authentic character and...
01:21:25.200 --> 01:21:26.000
Phil: I agree.
01:21:26.040 --> 01:21:31.020
Phil: He is very good at what he does in terms of the production values and things like that.
01:21:31.040 --> 01:21:33.220
Phil: I think he does phenomenal work.
01:21:34.340 --> 01:21:39.740
Phil: Got to think that he might be able to do more, but he wouldn't get the access that he gets.
01:21:40.760 --> 01:21:54.400
Tom: Of the three advertising luminaries of today we've mentioned, Scott Morrison, Danny O'Dwyer and Crocodile Dundee, I do believe that Danny O'Dwyer is the only authentic and likable one among them.
01:21:54.840 --> 01:22:01.740
Phil: I was going to say, if you could have a beer with Scott Morrison, Paul Hogan slash Crocodile Dundee or Danny O'Dwyer.
01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:06.720
Tom: I would probably say Scott Morrison.
01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:11.600
Tom: I think that would be the most interesting.
01:22:11.620 --> 01:22:12.040
Phil: Yes.
01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:19.580
Phil: Look, in terms of people I want to meet, I don't know what I'd say.
01:22:20.140 --> 01:22:26.000
Phil: In terms of having a beer with someone, probably Danny O'Dwyer because being a fellow Irishman, I'm pretty sure that he could keep up with me.
01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:33.660
Tom: And then again, if they're purchasing the type of beer, I think I would probably have to go with the Irishman as well.
01:22:35.240 --> 01:22:38.040
Tom: Because I don't trust what either of the Australians will be drinking.
01:22:38.380 --> 01:22:40.320
Phil: It's not going to be Foster's, I can tell you that.
01:22:41.820 --> 01:22:43.640
Phil: Do we want to talk about another game or?
01:22:44.440 --> 01:22:47.500
Tom: Well, we did review Omno on the website, I believe.
01:22:47.940 --> 01:22:51.400
Phil: A masterful, another game that looks like Sky or Journey.
01:22:52.020 --> 01:22:54.260
Tom: There are quite a few of them now, or at least two.
01:22:54.540 --> 01:23:00.680
Phil: And another game, you were quite taken with the independent developer, please tell me the name of them.
01:23:02.080 --> 01:23:04.040
Tom: Was it Jonas Manke?
01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:08.020
Phil: Yeah, so the Omni review is on the front page of our website.
01:23:09.120 --> 01:23:12.320
Phil: And yeah, Jonas Manke, or Jonas Manke.
01:23:13.240 --> 01:23:14.140
Tom: Jonas Manke.
01:23:14.180 --> 01:23:17.760
Phil: Yeah, and like Tim Keenan, he's a former animator.
01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:23.160
Phil: I recently re-listened to your interview with Tim Keenan, by the way, which was outstanding.
01:23:25.820 --> 01:23:28.640
Phil: One of the good things about being the long-standing podcast.
01:23:29.060 --> 01:23:46.680
Tom: I think, fine, it did feature some tough moments, including, I think, the most awkward and uncomfortable thing for any developer to face, which was, particularly as an indie developer there, my comments criticising her story, which she had to respond to.
01:23:46.700 --> 01:23:58.860
Tom: I think you could feel the fear and terror that something critical on an indie game being stated caused an email.
01:23:58.880 --> 01:24:08.520
Phil: Episode 48 was the first interview, or second interview you had done with him, and he was the creator of Duskers and what was his first game called?
01:24:10.280 --> 01:24:12.040
Phil: A Virus Named Tom, yeah, exactly.
01:24:12.660 --> 01:24:14.340
Phil: Sounded like a delightful chap.
01:24:15.020 --> 01:24:15.780
Tom: He did indeed.
01:24:16.460 --> 01:24:17.860
Phil: Did you interview him after that?
01:24:19.040 --> 01:24:19.960
Tom: No, I don't think so.
01:24:19.980 --> 01:24:23.380
Phil: Okay, I don't know what happened to him after Duskers.
01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:29.380
Tom: I'm pretty sure Duskers is the last game he has made thus far.
01:24:29.400 --> 01:24:33.780
Tom: I think he's possibly not working full-time in games at the moment.
01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:44.960
Tom: But Duskers, you actually see being mentioned around here and there on the internet today still, which is perhaps not that surprising given its uniqueness.
01:24:45.460 --> 01:24:59.840
Phil: I think too, if I could just speak candidly, I know that his wife who was also one of the co-developers of the game was pregnant with their first child, second child.
01:24:59.860 --> 01:25:20.040
Phil: So I do think that that game development period in this pre-COVID world lent them as a family the opportunity to spend a lot of time together, which would have been a wonderful thing for them, as they brought up their first two children or their first two children into the world sort of thing.
01:25:21.160 --> 01:25:24.880
Phil: So and the fact that the games are still getting mentioned today is notable.
01:25:25.160 --> 01:25:29.860
Phil: I'm sure they're still drawing income in this if they ever get noticed sort of thing.
01:25:31.360 --> 01:25:32.060
Tom: Quite possibly.
01:25:32.080 --> 01:25:39.580
Phil: But Omno was also made by a former animator, but it is derivative.
01:25:39.820 --> 01:25:42.760
Phil: I mean, it looks a lot like Journey.
01:25:42.780 --> 01:25:45.600
Phil: It looks like it's got sand surfing in there as well.
01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:47.000
Phil: What sort of game is it?
01:25:49.220 --> 01:25:53.960
Tom: Well, it is a 3D platformer and it is highly derivative.
01:25:53.980 --> 01:26:10.720
Tom: I think the thing that makes it nevertheless of interest is unlike Duskers, where again, there are a few cinematic things there that would come from animation, but due to the nature of the game, it is not so much about animation here.
01:26:11.180 --> 01:26:36.920
Tom: I think the interesting ways it is more like a short animated film or a dreamworks, not necessarily Pixar style animation, do set it apart from things it is copying such as Journey or Eco, where both of them are very much original.
01:26:37.240 --> 01:26:50.900
Tom: And if they have a reference to other mediums in a big way, it's ones that one would not necessarily immediately associate with games such as literature and painting.
01:26:51.820 --> 01:26:53.600
Phil: So that review is on our site.
01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:55.240
Phil: You played it on PC, no doubt?
01:26:56.280 --> 01:26:57.040
Tom: Yes, I did.
01:26:58.740 --> 01:27:00.140
Phil: Anything else you want to talk about?
01:27:01.560 --> 01:27:09.060
Tom: Well, that review was well received on the VG Press, I believe, by VEDA and Supreme AC.
01:27:09.080 --> 01:27:12.600
Tom: And I'm pretty sure that that has happened on a couple of occasions in the past.
01:27:12.900 --> 01:27:25.680
Tom: And I've noticed a pattern that my best received reviews, at least at the VG Press, are always the ones that are written the fastest and with the least amount of time and effort put into them.
01:27:25.820 --> 01:27:31.820
Phil: Well, I mean, the people that are still contributing to discussion forums, that's how they roll, right?
01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:34.000
Phil: I mean, that's how they communicate.
01:27:34.100 --> 01:27:34.740
Phil: Yes.
01:27:35.100 --> 01:27:35.760
Phil: That is true.
01:27:37.240 --> 01:27:38.680
Tom: Speaking of communication.
01:27:40.300 --> 01:27:40.640
Tom: Yes.
01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:53.020
Tom: We have been, I have now been, I don't know if anyone has noticed, because it has, essentially our Twitter style has ended up being the same, which is posting absolutely nothing.
01:27:54.500 --> 01:28:02.860
Tom: But I did subtly and stealthily take over The Game Under Twitter account.
01:28:03.740 --> 01:28:04.620
Tom: Some time ago.
01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:07.280
Phil: I noticed an increase in topless selfies.
01:28:07.440 --> 01:28:09.920
Phil: So it wasn't that, it was noticed.
01:28:11.200 --> 01:28:19.360
Tom: Well, there would be, if I had gone to the effort of uploading cyberpunk screenshots, there would have been a lot of topless selfies.
01:28:20.200 --> 01:28:20.840
Phil: Very cool.
01:28:21.780 --> 01:28:28.420
Tom: And if we ever have an Instagram for Game Under, there will be a lot, because there are a lot of cyberpunk screenshots to go through.
01:28:28.440 --> 01:28:29.300
Phil: Hey, you know what?
01:28:29.360 --> 01:28:31.160
Phil: This brings me up to another topic.
01:28:32.300 --> 01:28:33.980
Phil: Say what you will about Homefront.
01:28:35.480 --> 01:28:39.600
Phil: They shipped a game on a disc with pretty much no ability to update it.
01:28:40.220 --> 01:28:41.900
Phil: At least the bloody thing worked.
01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:42.900
Phil: And it was a game.
01:28:42.980 --> 01:28:45.100
Phil: I mean, can you imagine how scary that would have been?
01:28:45.540 --> 01:29:07.680
Phil: Like producing a game back in the day when you're just putting it on a disc or a cartridge and just hoping like hell that you captured everything as opposed to cyberpunk, which is like basically if they ever get sued in a class action lawsuit, other than by their shareholders, they basically decide, well, we'll just ship it and fuck it.
01:29:07.700 --> 01:29:09.860
Phil: You know, I mean, we'll update it later.
01:29:09.880 --> 01:29:17.860
Phil: The game is unplayable on the largest platform available other than PC, which is PlayStation 4.
01:29:19.580 --> 01:29:20.820
Phil: It's just incredible to me.
01:29:23.460 --> 01:29:31.000
Phil: And I think a lot about Homefront, mostly because it's at eye line level when I walk out of the media room.
01:29:31.780 --> 01:29:35.680
Phil: That section of video games happens to be the last thing I see as I walk out of the media room.
01:29:37.580 --> 01:29:40.780
Phil: But anyway, I had to say that.
01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:49.280
Phil: That game did have a running treadmill hooked up for a water filtration system in it to water the garden of tomatoes or something.
01:29:50.020 --> 01:29:50.520
Phil: Is that right?
01:29:51.700 --> 01:29:52.140
Tom: Did it?
01:29:53.300 --> 01:29:54.760
Phil: There's only one way to find out.
01:29:54.780 --> 01:29:55.380
Tom: Wait, yeah, yeah.
01:29:55.400 --> 01:29:57.240
Tom: The intro, during the intro, yes.
01:29:57.260 --> 01:29:57.840
Tom: Something like that.
01:29:57.860 --> 01:29:58.760
Phil: There's only one way to find out.
01:29:58.780 --> 01:30:00.100
Phil: That's for us to both get back to the game.
01:30:00.120 --> 01:30:00.800
Phil: It's time for a replay.
01:30:00.820 --> 01:30:02.160
Phil: It's time for a replay.
01:30:02.660 --> 01:30:06.440
Phil: I think it also had a bridge level, but I just might be thinking of Killzone.
01:30:06.460 --> 01:30:08.800
Tom: Yes, one of the worst bridge levels in history.
01:30:09.660 --> 01:30:11.060
Phil: Anyway, I'm sorry.
01:30:11.080 --> 01:30:14.100
Tom: And I'm not sure there has ever been a good bridge level in a first person shooter.
01:30:14.120 --> 01:30:15.420
Phil: What were you saying about Twitter?
01:30:18.980 --> 01:30:21.760
Tom: Yes, I also actually think about Homefront on and off.
01:30:21.780 --> 01:30:22.120
Phil: You do.
01:30:22.780 --> 01:30:27.720
Tom: Surprisingly often, there is something about that game that sticks with you.
01:30:27.740 --> 01:30:28.020
Phil: Yeah.
01:30:28.420 --> 01:30:29.440
Tom: There definitely is.
01:30:29.620 --> 01:30:35.320
Phil: Yeah, and this is the original Homefront, not that they did another one that was crap a couple of years ago.
01:30:36.880 --> 01:30:37.800
Tom: Yet another crap.
01:30:37.820 --> 01:30:38.520
Tom: Well, yeah.
01:30:38.620 --> 01:30:39.420
Tom: Two in a row.
01:30:39.440 --> 01:30:40.420
Phil: It was absolutely worse.
01:30:40.440 --> 01:30:42.540
Phil: It was inexplicable as to why they went back to it.
01:30:43.560 --> 01:30:45.020
Phil: What is our Twitter handle anyway?
01:30:45.100 --> 01:30:46.420
Phil: It's Game Under Phil, right?
01:30:47.480 --> 01:30:49.380
Tom: Yes, Game at Game Under Phil.
01:30:49.400 --> 01:30:55.180
Phil: If you want to follow us at Game Under Phil, I'm just having a look now.
01:30:55.920 --> 01:31:03.160
Phil: Oh, you promoted our podcast and you promoted your review of Omno and Inglot.
01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:06.420
Tom: At the same time, I believe.
01:31:06.440 --> 01:31:08.940
Tom: In the one tweet, that's how succinct I can be.
01:31:11.100 --> 01:31:17.240
Phil: Oh, Tim Keenan retweeted, Duskers turns five years old today.
01:31:19.340 --> 01:31:21.240
Phil: And he didn't ask for anything on Reddit Games.
01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:22.840
Phil: 50% off Steam.
01:31:23.140 --> 01:31:24.960
Phil: And he's returned to being a full-time indie.
01:31:26.240 --> 01:31:26.820
Tom: There we go.
01:31:26.840 --> 01:31:28.500
Tom: So he was not, now he is.
01:31:28.520 --> 01:31:29.340
Phil: Misfit Addicts.
01:31:30.440 --> 01:31:31.540
Phil: Okay, cool.
01:31:32.660 --> 01:31:33.940
Phil: Probably time to check in with him, huh?
01:31:35.320 --> 01:31:36.020
Tom: Quite possibly.
01:31:37.360 --> 01:31:40.040
Tom: So Twitter, I believe we were talking about.
01:31:41.680 --> 01:31:57.160
Tom: Now, I don't know if it's the people that you were following or not, but it can't just be the people you're following because I know quite a few of them, such as Jamie and the Endless Backlog crew and Chris Langner.
01:31:58.240 --> 01:32:02.580
Tom: Chris Langner and Gargan are potentially the two exceptions to this.
01:32:03.120 --> 01:32:19.760
Tom: But I do wonder what exactly the utility of having 140 character limit is because it appears to be very difficult to say anything interesting in 130 words or less.
01:32:19.840 --> 01:32:21.780
Phil: Yes, we've noticed this about you, Tom.
01:32:21.800 --> 01:32:25.500
Tom: 140 characters or less, sorry.
01:32:26.220 --> 01:32:27.080
Tom: And if you do...
01:32:27.280 --> 01:32:32.740
Tom: It's difficult for you to say anything in less than 140 paragraphs.
01:32:33.200 --> 01:32:34.900
Tom: My tweets are impeccable.
01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:38.800
Tom: I literally promoted two things in the one tweet.
01:32:38.920 --> 01:32:39.660
Tom: I'll have you know.
01:32:41.220 --> 01:32:42.800
Tom: So this does not apply to me at all.
01:32:43.060 --> 01:33:12.520
Tom: But the only time anyone says anything vaguely interesting in on Twitter, for the most part, it is either a joke which requires no response to it or it is a statement that is filled with so much vitriol and fury that the only way to respond to it would be to come up with something even more heinous and eviscerate.
01:33:12.540 --> 01:33:13.380
Phil: That would be awesome.
01:33:15.040 --> 01:33:16.840
Phil: Now you're making me want to go back to Twitter.
01:33:19.040 --> 01:33:23.700
Tom: Which has led me to not communicate with anyone on Twitter.
01:33:24.540 --> 01:33:29.860
Phil: I think, I've always said you're the master quip, you're the quip master, rather.
01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:37.960
Phil: And yeah, I think if you took it from a shock comedy perspective, I think you could do a lot with Twitter.
01:33:38.420 --> 01:33:39.260
Phil: I think that'd be fun.
01:33:40.340 --> 01:33:44.460
Tom: Well, Chris Langner posts a stream of jokes that are usually pretty reasonable.
01:33:44.480 --> 01:33:45.540
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
01:33:45.580 --> 01:33:54.320
Phil: I actually like Twitter and the people that I was following on Twitter because it's made up mostly of people in Australia and New Zealand loosely associated with it.
01:33:54.340 --> 01:33:58.320
Tom: And I just have to add, I think my tweeting record is reasonable.
01:33:58.340 --> 01:34:06.900
Tom: For instance, when Super Straight was trending, I posted, hi, Super Straight, Super Gay, Super Lesbian.
01:34:07.200 --> 01:34:08.740
Tom: You have to check out this sexuality.
01:34:08.740 --> 01:34:12.620
Tom: It's the most innovative sexuality I've had intercourse with in years.
01:34:13.360 --> 01:34:14.480
Tom: Hashtag superhot.
01:34:15.380 --> 01:34:16.900
Phil: Pretty good, pretty good.
01:34:17.320 --> 01:34:17.920
Phil: Super hot.
01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:21.600
Tom: I'm not saying it was great, but it did use the medium successfully.
01:34:21.740 --> 01:34:22.680
Tom: That's all I'm saying.
01:34:22.860 --> 01:34:24.780
Phil: Super hot's another game, I think, about a fair bit.
01:34:25.580 --> 01:34:30.380
Phil: Hey, so, what is the last stop for this episode?
01:34:31.520 --> 01:34:35.100
Tom: The last stop for this episode is Salt Shaker Lane.
01:34:36.980 --> 01:34:40.100
Tom: Now, last stop, I've forgotten who to develop and what they're called.
01:34:40.800 --> 01:34:53.300
Tom: But they, Variable State, yes, and they are famous for making Virginia, which was at the height of indie experience games.
01:34:53.460 --> 01:35:03.920
Tom: And it was very heavily inspired by the likes of Twin Peaks and the X-Files and things of that nature.
01:35:04.440 --> 01:35:09.500
Tom: And I remember impressively little about that game.
01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:16.560
Tom: I remember a few of the settings and a couple of the characters, but that is about it.
01:35:16.580 --> 01:35:25.380
Tom: Whereas I remember other games from that sort of era that I liked even less, such as for instance, Gone Home, very well indeed.
01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:34.120
Tom: So I was really not going into this with the highest of expectations to say the least.
01:35:34.180 --> 01:35:35.640
Phil: It was not a memorable game.
01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:45.200
Phil: It borrowed heavily from like X-Files sort of thing, but also at the same time, the Walking Dead video games type of thing.
01:35:45.200 --> 01:35:47.960
Phil: And it just wasn't particularly interesting.
01:35:48.400 --> 01:35:57.420
Phil: The art style was reminiscent of Sunset by one of our other favorite game developers.
01:35:57.440 --> 01:36:03.060
Phil: And yeah, I just remember not really finishing the game or feeling a need to play much of it.
01:36:04.360 --> 01:36:10.020
Phil: So this is a studio that's based in England and Dublin.
01:36:12.200 --> 01:36:16.160
Phil: And it's available, published by Annapurna Interactive.
01:36:16.700 --> 01:36:17.640
Phil: And it's on everything.
01:36:17.920 --> 01:36:20.580
Phil: So Windows through Switch, everything in between.
01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:27.420
Phil: It's a single player exploration game that came out just very recently, July 22nd.
01:36:29.300 --> 01:36:31.840
Phil: And it's set in 1980s London, I understand.
01:36:32.720 --> 01:36:34.880
Tom: Well, I think it's set in present day London.
01:36:37.840 --> 01:36:40.080
Tom: But it begins in 1980s London.
01:36:40.100 --> 01:36:42.320
Phil: OK, and then jumps to the 2020s.
01:36:42.340 --> 01:36:43.880
Tom: That's right, jumps ahead in time.
01:36:44.020 --> 01:36:52.880
Tom: And the plot set up is basically that someone disappears in the London underground in supernatural circumstances.
01:36:54.360 --> 01:37:08.380
Tom: And then skips ahead to the three different stories featuring four protagonists who each have their own interaction with the paranormal things that are going on.
01:37:08.640 --> 01:37:18.860
Tom: One character works for a company that is investigating these paranormal activities, potentially for the military industrial complex.
01:37:19.920 --> 01:37:32.100
Tom: Another character is a teenager who runs into a mysterious character who may be kidnapping people or something to that effect.
01:37:32.620 --> 01:37:41.720
Tom: And another story is about two characters once, who are involved in a body swapping scenario.
01:37:42.820 --> 01:37:48.240
Phil: Well, it sounds like it's got the capability of exploiting some pretty good game mechanics.
01:37:50.040 --> 01:37:51.580
Tom: Well, it certainly does not do that.
01:37:53.200 --> 01:38:12.340
Tom: The gameplay consists of choosing dialogue responses, which as far as I can tell do not have much of effect on what is said, and certainly do not affect the way that the plot unrolls in any way, shape or form, except in maybe a couple of decisions at the end.
01:38:14.820 --> 01:38:17.280
Tom: And that's pretty much it for the gameplay.
01:38:17.300 --> 01:38:36.580
Tom: There are a few QTE style things in the style of Indigo Prophecy slash Fahrenheit, such as if you're drinking a cup of coffee, if you're playing on a keyboard, you press, I think, A then S, then W as if you're moving the cup towards you, then lifting it, something like that.
01:38:39.540 --> 01:38:48.040
Tom: And also if you're running, you might press A and D back and forth very quickly to get a speed boost, that sort of thing.
01:38:49.300 --> 01:38:54.080
Tom: Though again, I don't know if failing those things actually has any effect either.
01:38:54.540 --> 01:38:57.500
Tom: So in gameplay terms, I don't think it is very interesting.
01:38:57.940 --> 01:39:05.120
Tom: In terms of the setting and story, it is a big step up from Virginia.
01:39:05.720 --> 01:39:18.160
Tom: I think mainly because there is a sense of humour to the story of all, to all three stories in the game, particularly unsurprisingly the body swapping story.
01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:35.540
Tom: As one of the characters is a game developer who looks like a fitness fanatic version of PewDiePie and another is a overweight bald middle-aged man with heart problems who has a daughter.
01:39:36.520 --> 01:39:47.700
Tom: So that's played up for all the laughs that you would expect and works quite well as a complement to the slightly more serious and mysterious other two stories.
01:39:47.980 --> 01:40:17.840
Tom: But the thing that surprised me was the sense of humour and self-awareness throughout the game which makes me wonder if I should go back to Virginia to see if it is in fact a parody because the only thing I remember about Virginia as well as a couple of the settings looking relatively okay was that a few moments were very unintentionally funny and now I'm wondering after playing this if they were actually intentionally funny, though they probably were not.
01:40:18.760 --> 01:40:20.480
Phil: Have you played this game to its completion?
01:40:21.500 --> 01:40:21.920
Tom: Yes, I have.
01:40:21.940 --> 01:40:23.700
Phil: I've heard it's about four hours long.
01:40:23.840 --> 01:40:24.140
Phil: Is that...
01:40:25.660 --> 01:40:27.100
Tom: Yep, that would be about right.
01:40:27.200 --> 01:40:32.480
Tom: It's not very long, but it also does not really live outlive its welcome.
01:40:35.020 --> 01:41:01.080
Tom: some of the chapters are extremely short, so I think perhaps structurally it would have worked better to make it less chapters with adding some of the chapters to the story in other chapters, because some of them basically last literally 10 minutes, where a chapter elsewhere will have lasted 30 or 40 minutes or so.
01:41:02.500 --> 01:41:13.940
Tom: So, there are some odd pacing decisions there, but otherwise it is relatively concise in how it tells its story.
01:41:15.560 --> 01:41:33.220
Phil: I rely on Wikipedia to kind of bring me up to speed on these games that I've never heard about and isn't it telling that, like, you can bring up a game that was released in July of this year and it doesn't have a reception section because no one reviews games anymore.
01:41:34.520 --> 01:41:44.300
Phil: You know, like, there's no Metacritic link or anything else and, you know, maybe that's just because the people who have put together this page aren't, you know, particularly interested in following it up.
01:41:45.500 --> 01:41:52.020
Phil: So I don't know how it's been received, but apparently there's a series of mini game interactions throughout the game.
01:41:52.040 --> 01:41:53.140
Phil: I was interested about that.
01:41:54.680 --> 01:41:55.620
Tom: What were the mini games?
01:41:56.160 --> 01:42:02.400
Phil: Were players control one of three main characters deciding what they should say and performing a variety of mini game interactions?
01:42:03.560 --> 01:42:07.680
Tom: I think that probably means the QTEs, but they don't want to call it QTEs.
01:42:09.460 --> 01:42:12.320
Phil: Yeah, and unfortunately the citations for that.
01:42:13.000 --> 01:42:26.820
Phil: You know, Dean Takahashi, he's like, he's another guy who wrote inside the Xbox as an investigative, quote, journalist, not really investigative journalist, but as a journalist.
01:42:28.480 --> 01:42:33.380
Phil: That was an outstanding book about the development of the original Xbox, but he's still kicking around.
01:42:34.660 --> 01:42:38.780
Tom: While we're going on as asides here, you said no one really reviews things.
01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:55.660
Tom: And GameSpot was a fascinating incubator of what the internet would be, which with the current games community not really having anything similar to that, but being broken up in various areas.
01:42:56.140 --> 01:43:16.740
Tom: Is Steam not now in fact somewhat like what GameSpot was with its myriad of user reviews ranging from seriously done writing to random stuff and sometimes very in depth games forums as well.
01:43:17.100 --> 01:43:22.680
Tom: It is not unlike a GameSpot that does not have any off topic discussion.
01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:32.740
Phil: I think with the destruction of NeoGAF, they got, what was it called, Remember Mead?
01:43:34.080 --> 01:43:35.120
Tom: Reset Era?
01:43:35.120 --> 01:43:38.360
Phil: Yeah, I mean they got turned into Reset Era.
01:43:38.740 --> 01:43:48.320
Phil: I think Reset Era, I haven't gone there, you know, per se, so I don't know if they've carried on that sort of community type thing that GameSpot had.
01:43:49.740 --> 01:43:55.600
Phil: But no, and also, you know, Reddit to an extent, but I agree with your point entirely.
01:43:56.480 --> 01:44:10.720
Phil: I think that Steam has a really rich community and, you know, you have this community where you have not only forums but also, you know, people pimping their content, be it a review or whatever.
01:44:10.740 --> 01:44:13.400
Phil: Yeah, no, I completely buy into that.
01:44:13.420 --> 01:44:18.180
Phil: I think Steam, because of its old school nature, they don't really do a lot with it.
01:44:18.200 --> 01:44:35.120
Phil: They don't really change that much unless they're forced to interchange, as you've seen with the GUI, graphical user interface they've updated, you know, based on competitive forces recently, like Epic Games and every other game store.
01:44:35.740 --> 01:44:37.380
Phil: But no, I completely buy that.
01:44:37.660 --> 01:44:38.540
Phil: You're absolutely right.
01:44:39.880 --> 01:44:43.420
Phil: So, back to our stop, and Off Topic was a great forum.
01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:51.160
Tom: It was, and not just the Off Topic forum, there were also the Off Topic blogs and unions as well.
01:44:51.440 --> 01:44:54.460
Phil: Gotta love the unions, but I was a union leader, as you know.
01:44:56.040 --> 01:44:56.700
Tom: So was I.
01:44:57.620 --> 01:45:24.240
Tom: So, last stop, there isn't really that much more to say on it because it is very simple and relatively short, but I think the other thing in Virginia that was notable, as I said, a couple of things I did remember from it were the settings, and I think this being set in England and them being English slash Irish makes a big difference to it.
01:45:25.260 --> 01:45:46.880
Tom: From the selection of cars that are on the streets to the atmosphere of the parks and flats and insides of offices and all those sorts of things, and of course the moments you're in the underground, they really have a very strong British atmosphere to it that was lacking in Virginia.
01:45:46.900 --> 01:45:57.740
Tom: You could see that visually they could come up with some interesting imagery, but none of it had any of the feel of Washington and the other places that it was set in.
01:45:57.940 --> 01:46:09.300
Tom: Not that I've been to Washington, but Twin Peaks, which is inspired by, I don't think that's in Washington either, but that has a really strong sense of place in it.
01:46:09.320 --> 01:46:15.000
Phil: Twin Peaks is set in Washington state, whereas Virginia is closer to Washington DC.
01:46:15.880 --> 01:46:19.720
Tom: And you really get that sense in Twin Peaks, you do not in Virginia.
01:46:19.740 --> 01:46:42.040
Tom: Here there is actually a strong sense of place, and when you end up in the other dimension as well, they can then allow their more dreamy imagination to be utilised well, which was the only real thing that stood out successfully as an aesthetic in Virginia.
01:46:42.420 --> 01:46:49.120
Tom: Here you get the two combined, which creates a more interesting and enjoyable atmosphere than in Virginia.
01:46:49.500 --> 01:47:02.720
Phil: And I think if not tonight as well, I'd be completely surprised if that was not developed by people who have first-hand knowledge of London or England, right?
01:47:02.740 --> 01:47:04.920
Phil: They carried that through extremely well, I thought.
01:47:06.600 --> 01:47:08.200
Tom: I'm pretty sure it is an English game.
01:47:08.380 --> 01:47:09.040
Phil: Has to be.
01:47:09.600 --> 01:47:10.220
Phil: Has to be.
01:47:10.480 --> 01:47:13.440
Phil: Hey, so for Australia, do we have a game?
01:47:13.460 --> 01:47:17.300
Phil: Do we have a game where you're like, oh yeah, these people have to have been to Australia?
01:47:19.000 --> 01:47:21.500
Phil: To have picked that up?
01:47:22.560 --> 01:47:25.500
Phil: Other than cruising the world, you know, with the kangaroos and...
01:47:26.600 --> 01:47:28.360
Tom: I think our game is Alain Noir.
01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:32.580
Phil: That is the most Australian game, I'd have to say.
01:47:32.600 --> 01:47:36.780
Tom: It captures the facial expressions of Australians, I think.
01:47:37.240 --> 01:47:38.940
Phil: Yeah.
01:47:39.020 --> 01:47:41.520
Phil: Okay, is it the last word on The Last Stop?
01:47:42.680 --> 01:47:43.220
Tom: That is.
01:47:43.260 --> 01:47:44.240
Tom: We're ready to score?
01:47:44.260 --> 01:47:44.880
Phil: I think we are.
01:47:44.900 --> 01:47:51.000
Phil: If you want to break out the die of destiny, I'll get the soundboard set up to make the rolling die sound effect.
01:47:54.300 --> 01:47:56.400
Tom: That gets, unfortunately, a 3 out of 10.
01:47:56.420 --> 01:47:58.640
Phil: Okay, but we can multiply that by 2.
01:48:00.220 --> 01:48:02.320
Tom: Which may be worse than what Virginia scored.
01:48:02.420 --> 01:48:03.980
Phil: We can multiply that by 2.
01:48:05.420 --> 01:48:10.180
Tom: We can, but we won't because we are ethical game journalists.
01:48:10.200 --> 01:48:11.640
Phil: Game journalists, yes, that's true.
01:48:12.840 --> 01:48:15.460
Tom: So how the die falls is how the die falls.
01:48:16.340 --> 01:48:18.980
Tom: And I did just remember that was not our last stop because...
01:48:19.460 --> 01:48:26.680
Phil: I'm sorry, I just went to our video game site, which has an amazing search tool.
01:48:27.460 --> 01:48:30.740
Phil: Because I wanted to see what you'd given Virginia as a score.
01:48:31.980 --> 01:48:33.540
Phil: You can only guess what I typed in.
01:48:33.560 --> 01:48:37.580
Phil: Now I'll spell it properly.
01:48:41.980 --> 01:48:43.860
Phil: We talked about Virginia a lot.
01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:45.040
Phil: Holy crap.
01:48:45.540 --> 01:48:46.920
Phil: We talked about it a lot.
01:48:47.020 --> 01:49:02.180
Phil: If you go to our site and put in Virginia, you'll not only get reviews of Lighthouse by Virginia Woolf, but also the various podcasts on which we spoke about Virginia.
01:49:02.200 --> 01:49:07.300
Tom: I think that's pretty impressive that we've got reviews by Virginia Woolf on our site.
01:49:07.840 --> 01:49:08.780
Phil: It is cool.
01:49:09.100 --> 01:49:16.440
Phil: But the number one hit on our site when you type in Virginia, spelt correctly, is AOL keyword G-U-P.
01:49:19.680 --> 01:49:28.680
Phil: And it's an article that says, we'll be back to discuss the current state of indie game development scene, the final impressions of Virginia and that dragon cancer.
01:49:28.700 --> 01:49:29.240
Phil: Click here.
01:49:30.520 --> 01:49:36.100
Phil: It says, trigger alert to humans, it sounds like something we'd say.
01:49:38.080 --> 01:49:41.540
Phil: If you're a human, you will be triggered by this podcast.
01:49:43.000 --> 01:49:43.940
Tom: I remember why.
01:49:43.960 --> 01:49:47.020
Tom: I believe it was due to our comments on that dragon cancer.
01:49:48.820 --> 01:49:50.120
Phil: Episode 92.
01:49:50.840 --> 01:49:58.400
Tom: As you can tell from the way Phil Fogg plays games, which is like a dragon, they're very much pro cancer at gameunder.net.
01:49:58.500 --> 01:50:01.080
Phil: Episode 92 is called Christian Cancer Company.
01:50:06.180 --> 01:50:15.780
Phil: Anyway, I think that the last word on the last call or whatever the hell it's called is also the last thing we'll do on this podcast for tonight.
01:50:16.500 --> 01:50:17.320
Phil: So thank you dear...
01:50:17.360 --> 01:50:19.780
Tom: Well, it would be if I had not been playing The Ramp.
01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:21.340
Phil: So thank you dear listener for joining us.
01:50:21.360 --> 01:50:23.140
Tom: Which probably should have been at the beginning of the show.
01:50:23.160 --> 01:50:24.680
Phil: For episode 137.
01:50:24.700 --> 01:50:25.260
Tom: But The Ramp.
01:50:25.340 --> 01:50:26.680
Phil: Of The Game Under Podcast.
01:50:26.700 --> 01:50:27.480
Phil: I've been your host.
01:50:28.420 --> 01:50:29.200
Tom: Yes, The Ramp.
01:50:30.280 --> 01:50:32.580
Phil: And Tom, do you have any last words before we go out?
01:50:33.940 --> 01:50:34.560
Tom: Yes I do.
01:50:35.440 --> 01:50:41.320
Tom: The Ramp is a skateboarding game developed by...
01:50:42.540 --> 01:50:43.480
Phil: Searches on the internet.
01:50:43.500 --> 01:50:43.600
Phil: Yes.
01:50:47.180 --> 01:50:48.200
Tom: Hyperparadise.
01:50:48.260 --> 01:50:50.140
Phil: And you wonder why you don't get free codes.
01:50:51.700 --> 01:50:52.840
Tom: Well, this is a free code.
01:50:52.860 --> 01:50:53.680
Phil: This was a free code.
01:50:54.120 --> 01:50:56.120
Tom: This is why I have to shoehorn it in.
01:50:56.140 --> 01:51:01.920
Phil: But if you actually had paid for the game, I'm pretty sure you would have been invested enough in it that you would know the name of the developer.
01:51:04.760 --> 01:51:05.640
Tom: But perhaps.
01:51:06.500 --> 01:51:07.020
Tom: Perhaps.
01:51:07.040 --> 01:51:08.620
Tom: But you said why I don't get them.
01:51:09.080 --> 01:51:09.400
Phil: Yes.
01:51:09.420 --> 01:51:10.160
Phil: This is why.
01:51:10.360 --> 01:51:11.760
Tom: But this is in fact proof that I do.
01:51:11.880 --> 01:51:13.000
Phil: So you've been playing The Ramp.
01:51:13.000 --> 01:51:14.280
Phil: What platform is it on?
01:51:14.280 --> 01:51:14.560
Tom: Yes.
01:51:14.580 --> 01:51:15.280
Phil: Surely you know that.
01:51:15.300 --> 01:51:17.600
Tom: It is on PC.
01:51:19.180 --> 01:51:20.920
Tom: I know that because that's what I'm playing it on.
01:51:22.520 --> 01:51:24.280
Tom: I think it possibly is only on PC.
01:51:24.300 --> 01:51:25.160
Tom: And it's developed by whom?
01:51:27.420 --> 01:51:28.400
Phil: And where are they based?
01:51:31.160 --> 01:51:31.720
Tom: The Earth.
01:51:35.180 --> 01:51:35.900
Tom: Maybe Finland.
01:51:35.920 --> 01:51:36.100
Tom: Okay.
01:51:40.500 --> 01:51:40.780
Phil: Yes, it is.
01:51:47.100 --> 01:51:47.820
Phil: I think it's a very good game.
01:51:50.960 --> 01:51:52.380
Phil: I think it's a very good game.
01:51:53.560 --> 01:51:54.100
Phil: I think it's a very.
01:51:59.520 --> 01:52:00.860
Phil: And that has brought more interest in it.
01:52:00.900 --> 01:52:06.700
Phil: People have been trying to get Skate remade by EA.
01:52:09.060 --> 01:52:11.140
Phil: And it was developed by Paul Schneff.
01:52:11.900 --> 01:52:17.300
Phil: It has four stages in all, featuring a vert half pipe, a couple of pools, a mega.
01:52:23.880 --> 01:52:33.280
Phil: And certainly, it's probably, as its influence, immediately when I hear about four levels, it reminds me of a game like Skate or Die back on the Commodore 64.
01:52:34.880 --> 01:52:37.380
Phil: So, yeah, so you've been playing this on PC?
01:52:39.340 --> 01:52:39.860
Tom: I have indeed.
01:52:39.900 --> 01:52:42.640
Phil: And that's the only platform on which it is available.
01:52:44.880 --> 01:52:47.480
Phil: And, yeah, so how does it actually control?
01:52:47.500 --> 01:52:49.280
Phil: Are you using a controller or...?
01:52:50.060 --> 01:52:50.800
Tom: Yes, I am.
01:52:50.820 --> 01:52:53.580
Tom: You can use a keyboard, but I would not recommend that.
01:52:54.560 --> 01:52:58.780
Tom: And the way it controls is what makes it so enjoyable and interesting.
01:53:02.040 --> 01:53:09.880
Tom: Essentially, when you begin at the top of a ramp, obviously, regardless of the level, then you drop in.
01:53:10.860 --> 01:53:15.380
Tom: And when you drop in, you want to be...
01:53:16.920 --> 01:53:18.680
Tom: You have a button which forces...
01:53:18.920 --> 01:53:23.520
Tom: which makes the character crouch and put their weight to the front of the board.
01:53:24.900 --> 01:53:29.000
Tom: And that's what you use whenever you're just rolling around pre-jump.
01:53:29.020 --> 01:53:32.340
Tom: So when you land, you want to be crouching a little.
01:53:32.580 --> 01:53:35.980
Tom: Then when you hit the ramp, you want to raise yourself up a bit.
01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:48.980
Tom: Then at the middle, and as you begin to go up the ramp, you then want to release that and straighten out once again, thus giving you a little bit more momentum as you go up the ramp and you're about to jump.
01:53:50.320 --> 01:54:02.260
Tom: So that basic thing creates a really enjoyable and satisfying rhythm that is not there in most skateboarding games that are not necessarily from an isometric perspective.
01:54:02.820 --> 01:54:17.640
Tom: And when you are jumping, you can then obviously rotate in the air and do a variety of simple tricks just using the right thumb stick or grind using, I think, the right bumper.
01:54:17.700 --> 01:54:21.020
Phil: So how do you do when you're up in the air, how do you do a 540?
01:54:21.040 --> 01:54:23.800
Phil: I mean, what is the mechanics for actually achieving that?
01:54:25.360 --> 01:54:34.080
Tom: You hold left or right in the direction you want to spin for the correct amount of time to be able to do that many rotations and land safely.
01:54:34.100 --> 01:54:34.820
Phil: It looks amazing.
01:54:34.860 --> 01:54:36.020
Phil: It looks really fun.
01:54:36.100 --> 01:54:39.520
Phil: How's the sound in it?
01:54:41.020 --> 01:54:42.900
Tom: The sound is very satisfying.
01:54:42.920 --> 01:55:00.100
Tom: The sound of the wheels going over the lip as you jump and land is really chunky and nice, and there's a very gravelly, woody sort of noise as you roll along the pools or the wood of the ramps.
01:55:01.760 --> 01:55:05.760
Phil: In terms of the vibration in the controller, is there much done there?
01:55:07.960 --> 01:55:09.840
Tom: There is a little from what I remember.
01:55:09.860 --> 01:55:19.600
Tom: I don't think they do that much, but if they are doing much, it's enough that it is not that memorable, yet not at all intrusive.
01:55:19.940 --> 01:55:26.140
Tom: I think the main focus on it is definitely in the sound.
01:55:26.280 --> 01:55:28.260
Phil: The name of the game is The Ramp.
01:55:28.280 --> 01:55:32.900
Phil: It's available on Steam for $8.50 Australian, so it's a pretty good pick up.
01:55:32.920 --> 01:55:34.320
Phil: It's developed by HyperParadise.
01:55:34.340 --> 01:55:40.340
Phil: It just came out last week and has overwhelmingly positive reviews from 532 users.
01:55:40.360 --> 01:55:47.220
Phil: So, yeah, I mean, it looks very, very interesting, but how much, I mean, is it very sticky?
01:55:47.340 --> 01:55:50.160
Phil: I mean, is this something that you'd go back to necessarily?
01:55:50.440 --> 01:55:53.340
Phil: And what length are the play sessions?
01:55:53.360 --> 01:55:54.840
Phil: Is this a five-minute game?
01:55:55.600 --> 01:55:56.340
Phil: And then you're done?
01:55:56.900 --> 01:55:57.200
Phil: Or...?
01:55:58.660 --> 01:56:04.720
Tom: For me, it is most enjoyable in maybe sessions of 10 minutes to half an hour.
01:56:06.960 --> 01:56:10.720
Tom: But I think it is just enjoyable if you just play it for a few minutes as well, though.
01:56:11.260 --> 01:56:14.460
Phil: And the developer describes it as a digital toy.
01:56:15.660 --> 01:56:16.020
Tom: Yes.
01:56:16.480 --> 01:56:18.700
Tom: Well, there's no career mode or anything like that.
01:56:19.320 --> 01:56:22.240
Tom: There are just, correct, there are just the levels.
01:56:22.260 --> 01:56:25.520
Phil: A lot of games, other than Homefront, not a lot of games have a career mode.
01:56:26.760 --> 01:56:27.060
Tom: Yes.
01:56:28.240 --> 01:56:29.820
Tom: Well, Art of Rally has a career mode.
01:56:29.840 --> 01:56:31.080
Phil: Oh, does it?
01:56:32.240 --> 01:56:33.000
Phil: North or South?
01:56:36.240 --> 01:56:37.580
Tom: West and East as well.
01:56:37.780 --> 01:56:38.800
Phil: There's no West Korea.
01:56:42.540 --> 01:56:43.700
Tom: I said Art of Rally.
01:56:44.460 --> 01:56:44.840
Phil: All right.
01:56:44.860 --> 01:56:46.620
Phil: So do you have anything else to say about the RAM?
01:56:48.420 --> 01:57:03.500
Tom: Yeah, just that, again, while there is no career mode or no scoring, that does actually put the focus on the mechanics and just trying to jump as high as possible and get as much rotation as you can.
01:57:04.720 --> 01:57:22.880
Tom: And the two pool levels can be really satisfying because due to the size of them, depending on how you're going through the levels, it can be really difficult to keep up a good amount of speed to be getting good jumps consistently.
01:57:23.880 --> 01:57:32.820
Tom: So it is tremendously simple, but a really enjoyable and unique take on skateboarding in games.
01:57:33.520 --> 01:57:34.160
Phil: Oh, excellent.
01:57:34.320 --> 01:57:37.540
Phil: And obviously it's a work of passion.
01:57:38.400 --> 01:57:44.960
Phil: It's averaging 9 out of 10 on Steam, amongst Steam users, so that's high praise.
01:57:44.980 --> 01:57:47.100
Phil: And, you know, that's probably why I've been hearing about it.
01:57:47.120 --> 01:57:51.380
Phil: So I'm glad that you highlighted it here at the end of the show.
01:57:51.400 --> 01:57:55.760
Phil: And since I've already done the outro, all I have to say to you is I'm Phil Fogg.
01:57:56.900 --> 01:57:58.760
Tom: And I'm about to roll the die of destiny.
01:57:58.780 --> 01:57:59.440
Phil: On The Ramp.
01:58:03.820 --> 01:58:04.840
Tom: Six out of ten.
01:58:06.240 --> 01:58:09.460
Tom: So the dice has not been kind today.
01:58:09.560 --> 01:58:10.000
Phil: No.
01:58:10.020 --> 01:58:12.240
Phil: It's kinder than it usually is.
01:58:12.280 --> 01:58:16.540
Phil: But still, yeah, not keeping up with the Steam users.
01:58:16.540 --> 01:58:17.760
Phil: But all right.
01:58:18.120 --> 01:58:18.660
Phil: Very good.
01:58:19.420 --> 01:58:20.800
Phil: Could it have been done on mobile?
01:58:21.520 --> 01:58:22.360
Tom: I would say it could.
01:58:22.500 --> 01:58:31.360
Tom: But I think it would have been probably pretty awkward because you could certainly do the basic skating mechanic.
01:58:31.660 --> 01:58:58.540
Tom: I think if you're then adding the rotation as well as tricks is where things become, I think, pretty awkward because the fact that you do have to be paying as much attention to what you're doing between the jumps makes it a lot more complicated than most skateboarding games, which I think would be difficult to translate on a screen.
01:59:00.020 --> 01:59:02.420
Phil: Now all you need to say is, I'm Tom Towers.
01:59:05.040 --> 01:59:05.700
Tom: I'm The Ramp.