Game Under Podcast 123

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Introduction
0:00:08 Wailuigi

Final Thoughts - The Last Day In June
0:06:30 Game Play Descriptions which some may consider spoilers throughout this section.
0:07:05 Bad Vibrations - Discussion of vibration in controls over course of gaming history.
0:09:00 Back to the Game
0:28:00 Story Spoilers from Here to 0:33:25
0:33:25 Spoilers End Here

Tom Towers Reacts...to the news
0:36:49 China Bans Animal Crossing
0:42:08 Game Under Eulogy: Peppy Dies
0:52:30 Tom Talks About Hygiene
0:55:06 Real Estate Vs. Cars as Status Symbols
0:56:15 Forza Horizon 4 - Just a Few Last Comments

First Impressions - Death and Taxes
1:04:30 Tom and Phil give first impressions of this Papers, Please clone for PC

Tom Towers Reads
1:17:05 Game Content Ends Here, A Discussion of History and the Unchanged Nature of Humanity

Transcript

Phil: Hello, and welcome to The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: This is episode

Tom: It's episode is it?

Phil: Yes, ?

Phil: I don't know what we usually say.

Tom: Does that have any special significance?

Tom: Well, I would say episode not

Phil: Welcome.

Phil: This is Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg.

Phil: Episode today, Thursday, is th of April,

Phil: I just finished learning English today, and I'm joined by my inevitable co-host, Mr.

Phil: Tom Towers.

Tom: Inevitable.

Phil: Inevitable.

Tom: Are you sure you...

Tom: Inevitable.

Tom: Are you sure you finished learning English today?

Phil: We're joined by the inevitable Tom Towers.

Phil: Hi, Tom.

Tom: I am inevitable.

Phil: Oh, this is what happens when you let me do the intro.

Tom: Today, I believe, you've ruined the show so badly.

Tom: We're just going to head straight into The Last Day of June, and everyone will be hoping that this is the last day of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: You misheard me.

Phil: Today is Thursday the th of April, not The Last Day of June.

Phil: So I thought we'd start with some trademark banter.

Phil: You know, hot take.

Phil: Have you...

Phil: I just wanted to know.

Phil: This isn't going to have to be a long thing.

Phil: I've never, in all the years that we've been talking about video games and talking in general, I've never heard your take on Waluigi and your opinion of him and whether or not you think he should exist, do you like him?

Tom: What do you think my take on Waluigi is?

Phil: I think that you would be an enthusiastic...

Phil: You would support Waluigi's motivations and that you think the world would be a lesser place without him.

Tom: He is obviously the best of the Mario-based mascots.

Phil: The best?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Better than Daisy?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: And Peach?

Tom: Well, certainly better than Peach, that's not even the competition.

Phil: Peach actually looks like an inflatable doll.

Phil: Back in the th century, they had these marital aids, as they called them, and they had these inflatable dolls, which I've seen a couple of them on TV, of course, not real life.

Phil: And they just have, it just basically looks like Princess Peach, if she was inflated, I guess.

Phil: But the, oh, and did you know, like Toby Gard, the guy that designed Lara Croft?

Tom: This is something that you should research on there.

Tom: Is there a Princess Peach blow-up doll available, branded by Nintendo?

Phil: I think you have a better VPN than I do, so I'll let you look that up.

Phil: But did you know Toby Gard, the guy who designed Tomb Raider, the first Tomb Raider?

Phil: And then I think he got kicked off of Tomb Raider after the second one.

Phil: You know, everyone's like, oh, well, you know, Lara Croft, you know, female protagonist, forward-looking.

Phil: There's an interview out there with Toby Gard.

Tom: There are two parts of her that are very forward-looking.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: And Toby Gard openly said in an interview back when you could say such things, you know, oh, well, we basically just wanted her to be a walking inflatable doll.

Phil: And that's why she looks the way she looks.

Phil: Which when you see the Saturn version and the PlayStation version of Tomb Raider isn't far off.

Phil: But, you know, let's not come off that this was some...

Tom: I think Nintendo did that a lot better.

Phil: Did with, oh, with Peach.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Yeah, I would agree.

Phil: But, you know, Toby Gaurd too, like he went on to make a video game called Galleon, which also had these ridiculously proportioned women in it.

Phil: Very bad game.

Phil: It's a pirate game, incidentally.

Phil: Not pirated, but pirate game for the Xbox and PC.

Phil: But I don't know how we got onto that.

Phil: So Waluigi, you think is better than all of them?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Yoshi's pretty good.

Tom: Actually, yeah, Yoshi is up there.

Tom: Yoshi.

Tom: But he's the only one that other than Luigi himself has some degree of personality to him.

Tom: Wario maybe to a lesser degree, but the two that stand out other than Yoshi are Luigi and to an even greater degree Waluigi.

Tom: And he's the one that also, I think, undeniably evokes the strongest reaction from people, albeit a lot of people absolutely despise him.

Phil: I don't think you should despise Waluigi.

Phil: I find it interesting that he was introduced in the Nera, because he was introduced in that tennis game, presumably because they needed an easy partner to draw, as opposed to, I guess, putting in Bowser.

Tom: He's the most arbitrary character in the series, and yet simultaneously the most interesting.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And also, you...

Tom: Given the arbitrariness of basically all the characters, it also shouldn't come as a surprise that the most arbitrary would also actually be the best.

Phil: I think, well, I think the reason behind that is the mystery to him.

Phil: So you've played the WarioWare games, on the GBA at least, and that is where...

Tom: Did you lend me one of them?

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: And that's the micro-games.

Tom: Then I played that one.

Phil: Yeah, that's the micro-games one.

Phil: And that's...

Phil: a lot of Wario's personality comes out in that one, more so than in anything else he's done, even in the Wario Land games.

Phil: And I think Wario is the best character, but we know so much about him that he loses the intrigue that Waluigi has.

Tom: I think Wario might be the deepest, but I would still go for the international man of mystery that is Waluigi.

Tom: When you have that level of charisma and je ne sais quoi, you don't need the depth of a Wario.

Phil: Well, I think the moustache says it all.

Phil: But as you said, speaking of depth, we wanted to give our final impressions and first impressions of a video game that we both played and completed just this week.

Phil: And that's a game that is available on the Switch and PlayStation and Windows was released in by a very small Italian developer.

Phil: I'm not talking about his stature, but the team.

Phil: I think there was only about eight people on the team.

Phil: And that is a game called The Last Day of June.

Phil: Now, I played it on PC using an Xbox controller.

Phil: I presume you played it on the Switch?

Tom: I played it on PC using a PScontroller.

Tom: And I had to turn off the vibration at some point.

Tom: The vibration in that game is bizarrely strong.

Phil: I wish I could figure out how to turn it off.

Phil: And this raises a point in most games with vibration.

Phil: Like, I find the vibration on the Switch to be really...

Phil: It just buzzes and whirs so loudly that it distracts from even the audio cues.

Phil: And in this game, every time they used the vibrate, it was just so strong.

Phil: And we should probably explain that this game...

Phil: I'll try and explain it first, and you can try and explain it.

Tom: Well, here's a tip for future reference.

Tom: You can usually turn off the vibrations by going to Options and then Controls.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Thank you.

Phil: I couldn't find it for whatever reason.

Phil: Or I couldn't be staffed and just let it do its thing.

Phil: But it was so loud.

Phil: And I think that with the new controllers, they have all of these abilities to almost give haptic response with the number of motors that they have and everything else.

Phil: But with a lot of these cross-platform games, it's almost like they've got vibrate at or don't vibrate at all.

Tom: I think some games make use of them, but most don't.

Tom: The vibration in this, except that it was about times stronger, felt like it had the gradient of a PScontroller.

Phil: Honestly, I have to say, I think that the PlayStation PlayStation era had the best vibration, including Microsoft's controllers at that time.

Tom: I think the vibration in the controllers themselves was terrible, maybe because it was newer technology developers more interested in making use of it.

Phil: Yeah, I honestly just think they were better because they weren't as...

Phil: Yeah, who knows, who knows?

Phil: But in any case, I'm going to try and describe the type of game this is.

Phil: It's a third-person game basically with minor puzzle elements.

Tom: It's a walking slash wheeling simulator slash puzzle adventure game from the third-person perspective.

Phil: Puzzle adventure game from the third perspective, I would definitely say that's what it is.

Phil: In terms of its art style, it has like an impressionist type feel to it in terms of the landscapes.

Tom: It's clearly going for an impressionist slash claymation look, which is an interesting combination given that Aardman recently released a similarly visually styled game as well, which we've talked about previously on the show.

Phil: Aardman, of course, being the people behind Wallace and Gromit and Shaun the Sheep.

Phil: What was the name of their game that was released?

Phil: A World War I game?

Tom: Memories Retold, I believe.

Phil: Yep, and I want to give that one a try.

Phil: It's on my wish list right now.

Phil: And I would say, if people are not familiar with the Impressionist movement, most people would be aware of Edward Munch's painting The Scream.

Tom: Who is in no way an Impressionist painting.

Phil: He is not an Impressionist, but I think the character models, you know, with the overly large heads and...

Tom: I think they are more from Italian cartoons and comics.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: What about the lack of eyeballs?

Tom: There are weird stylistic things like that in that sort of European comic style sometimes.

Phil: I just thought that, as I said, the landscapes were Impressionistic, but I think the character models, to me, evoke something more puppet-like, and that might have something to do with the theme as well.

Tom: So that would be the claymation aspect I was referring to.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So anyway, it is definitely a puzzler adventure.

Phil: It probably took about, what, four or five hours to beat?

Tom: Something like that.

Tom: Three or four hours, I'd say.

Phil: And the way you play the game is they will show you some video, and then you'll play.

Phil: And basically you're...

Phil: Well, I don't know how much more I want to go into it.

Phil: I'll probably give you a better entree before we get into the nitty-gritty, if there's anything else you want to say about it.

Tom: Well, you mentioned the audio earlier, and what did you think of the soundtrack?

Tom: The central theme in the game I found to be rather out of place most of the time.

Tom: And the soundtrack in general, I thought the music in and of itself was enjoyable, but it didn't really fit with the aesthetic.

Tom: It was slightly darker than the aesthetic, including in the darker moments in the aesthetic as the story was revealed, visually, I mean.

Tom: And there was also a, I think, more ethereal element to it than in the rest of the game's presentation, which makes sense to some degree given the narrative, but didn't quite mesh with the look of the game and the storytelling.

Tom: And the look of the game and storytelling are way more cartoony than the style of music as well, which is very much sort of indie, rocky, and in an easily listenable sort of way.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's hard, and we have to keep in mind this as a team, even as talented and as connected as they were, this is still a small team game.

Phil: And sometimes when I was looking at the artistic choices that were made, including the music, I wondered how much of this is deliberate and how much of this is budget, and how much of this is, hey, we've got a grant from the Italian government, I've got a mate who can do the music.

Phil: You know, so I can never really measure in the intent of that.

Phil: But in terms of how the music impacted me, obviously the strength of this game isn't its gameplay, it's the themes that it deals with.

Phil: And I think that with games like that, typically the musical cues can be a home run or a gimme.

Phil: It can be an easy thing that gets a big impact.

Phil: So, you know, and there can be melodies that stick in your head with these types of games.

Phil: And I don't think that this game had that kind of audio.

Phil: The game like Brothers, which deals with somewhat similar themes, you know, basically I felt that the music let this game down.

Tom: I think the music itself was good, but I don't think it really meshed with the style of the rest of the game.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: And it would have been quite easy for them to have a scene where it's a story about a man and a woman who, you know, just struggle with how much we want to spoil this, but basically...

Tom: Well, presumably we'll go through our main impressions that aren't spoilery then go to spoilers.

Phil: Yep, that's right.

Phil: So I think that there could have been a scene between the man and the woman where just as she had been a painter, if he had sat down at a stand up piano and was tinkering around playing a tune, you know, and they could have played on that to include it throughout the game further on sort of thing.

Phil: And then you could play with the themes of that simple tune depending on the scene.

Phil: But again, it would be difficult to do because this game is fractured in a way, in a purposeful way, because you are playing as multiple people.

Phil: You do play as, I think, off the top of my head, five different people in this game.

Phil: So each level you're playing as a different character.

Phil: So it would have benefited from a consistent musical theme throughout playing on those things.

Phil: So essentially, I think we can say that the game, there's a central event, and then you play the game through different levels from the different perspectives of the people that contributed to that event in one way or another.

Phil: And how could different things have played out had those different individuals done different things on that day?

Tom: So basically you're attempting to alter what they do to alter how the event ultimately plays out.

Phil: That's right.

Tom: So you go back and forth between the characters, altering different events, which then alter events in that character's storyline and so on and so forth.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So in a non-linear but linear type sense, and most people would catch on to pulp fiction, you'll play as a character, you'll think you're done with that character, you'll put on and play as the next character, but then you've got to go back in time or back to the first character to have them do something different so that the second character can do something.

Phil: So they get as deep as about three characters, I think, in one puzzle, where basically you have to do whatever you can, then you have to go back and play as the other person, then you have to go back and play as the other person.

Tom: And one frustrating thing is, before you can switch between the characters, at least as far as I could work out, you had to play through to the end of the day.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And it was very frustrating, that component of it.

Phil: The other component of it that was frustrating was in the first two instances where this finally became apparent.

Phil: It wasn't really apparent that that's what you were supposed to do.

Phil: Like, the game never really signed posts that you're supposed to, or that you're even allowed to, go back to these prior characters.

Phil: So you're sitting down, you're playing an indie game, and the usual thought that went through my mind was, okay, yep, I beat that level, I'm done playing as the best friend, that's done, that's in a box, on to the next one.

Phil: And then you load up the computer again, and then it's like, do you want to replay the best friend?

Phil: It's like, no, I don't.

Phil: I want to go on to the next level.

Phil: Oh, do you want to rewind?

Phil: Do you want to rewind?

Phil: This is the terminology they use, and play that level again.

Phil: And you're like, no, I've beat that level.

Phil: In fact, I complained about it at our community page at the VG Press, that I thought it was an issue with the checkpoints.

Phil: I complained, as you just did, that the checkpoints were too far apart.

Phil: You can't just cut to the other character.

Phil: But the other point was, I thought that it had not saved everything that I had done, because when I exhausted all other options, which was really frustrating, because I thought, okay, they're not letting me progress other than to rewind this level I've just done.

Phil: So I spent minutes going around, just trying to find the next door to open or the next thing to do.

Phil: So you go back and you press rewind, you go, well, I've already done this, because they start the level the exact same way, apparently, or in appearance, as when the first time you played it.

Phil: Now, after you've done a few of these, you can see, oh, no, it's not exactly the same.

Phil: You know, they do shorten them up to get to the poignant part that you have to do.

Phil: But, I mean, am I an idiot, or do you think they could have better sign posted it?

Tom: I think that's a Phil Fogg moment.

Tom: I don't think it was at any point not obvious that that was what you were meant to be doing.

Phil: All right, so this is a, probably we'll just catchphrase this, just lost in the Fogg moment.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Um, look, do you want to have a word about any, about the game play?

Tom: Well, just, um, the main disappointing thing about it was that basically the solutions to the problems were usually just based around finding a different source for the same item rather than anything more, uh, creative or interesting than that.

Tom: So it was really just sort of a laborious, um, process of playing through the characters to unlock different paths through the level to be able to get to another of the same item, um, that two characters need so that they both have the one item, rather than anything more creative and interesting than that.

Tom: And it was, it, the permutations between the characters weren't really that complicated.

Tom: And it all basically just boiled down to opening up paths for the characters.

Tom: So it was an interesting, um, puzzle structure and potentially interesting way to design puzzles, but it wasn't really used in an interesting way.

Phil: I think laborious is the word I would put on the back of the box if I were to review this game.

Phil: Um, the exposition to gameplay I found to be, the exposition to gameplay ratio I found to be imbalanced.

Phil: And then the gameplay itself wasn't that satisfying.

Phil: Um, and as you said, it got to the point where I knew what I had to do, but I had to wait until I got to the end of the day for that character so I could go and do it.

Phil: Um, you do get, you do become familiar with the village that you're playing this in, uh, quite quickly, which was refreshing.

Phil: I mean, it was nice.

Phil: It was certainly much easier to play once you knew where the church was in relation to this building and that building and everything else.

Phil: If I do have a criticism of this game, I'd also say the lack of sex in the game.

Phil: Um, I found confusing.

Phil: I thought there should have been more hardcore, you know, sexual interactions in the game.

Tom: Well, it is a love story.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, and I mean, and the best friend is right there, and you know, so, and nothing happens with her.

Phil: I never really fully understood the dynamic of the best friend and why she was moving out.

Phil: One can only assume it was because of some, you know, erotic encounter she had.

Tom: I think it was because she failed to have an erotic encounter.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: And again, talking about Princess Peach.

Tom: This is Italian.

Tom: What's going on?

Phil: Yeah, it's just shocking.

Phil: The lack of sex in this game is shocking.

Phil: The main characters was an old man, a person in a wheelchair, a dog, and an underage boy, and a next door neighbor that dresses like Princess Peach.

Phil: So, and nothing happens in the whole game.

Phil: Very disappointing.

Phil: I don't know that we need to spoil the story to talk about the themes.

Phil: I think, to me, the obvious theme was that of regret.

Phil: And regret often and always comes, I feel, with, and can only come about if you're going, well, if I had done this, then that wouldn't have happened.

Phil: Or if this and that hadn't happened, then maybe this wouldn't have happened.

Phil: And in the game, you're trying to undo an event.

Phil: And basically, you know, because it's a video game, I don't think there's any surprise to say that it doesn't really matter what you do, you can't undo that event.

Phil: And so I think the major theme of the game, and the game was based on both a short film and a short story, as they indicate in the credits, is basically saying, ultimately, it doesn't matter what you do, these bad things can happen and will happen, and you've got to kind of live with it.

Phil: Now, there is a happy ending in the game, but am I wrong in thinking that that's the major theme?

Phil: Are there multiple endings?

Tom: Did I miss something?

Phil: Well, there is a happy ending in that, ultimately, I think...

Tom: But are there multiple endings?

Tom: The way you said that implied there were multiple endings.

Phil: I don't believe that there are multiple endings.

Tom: Okay, good.

Phil: Yeah, and I won't say anything more because I don't want to get into spoiler territory because I do think it's a game worth playing, and the only reason I say that is because as much as I found the game laborious and unenjoyable as I played it, it's a game like Sunset where I think it's a game I'm going to be thinking about.

Phil: Now, we talked about the Church Cancer Company game.

Phil: You remember that one?

Tom: The Church Cancer...

Phil: You know, the Cancer Company game.

Tom: I believe it's called That Dragon Cancer.

Phil: Yeah, that's it.

Phil: Let's make money off of people who have died.

Tom: I wouldn't agree with that perspective.

Phil: Well, we'll have to go back to another episode to listen to it.

Tom: I think that's a rather bizarre attitude to have towards art.

Phil: I think the episode was Christian Cancer Company.

Phil: If you want to go back and listen to what we thought about it at the time.

Phil: I think I was less inflamed by it than I was then.

Phil: But that game is completely forgettable.

Phil: This one, I think I will...

Tom: With the exception of The Lighthouse Level.

Phil: Are you talking about Edith Finch now?

Tom: No, no, no.

Tom: The Lighthouse Level was a standout moment.

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: If you say so, I can't remember it.

Phil: But unlike that game, this game I think will stick with me.

Phil: And that's why I think people should play it.

Tom: I don't think it will stick with me more than that level in That Dragon Cancer.

Tom: But one thing I found quite interesting was the laboriousness of the gameplay, I think, contributed to the theme, because it was not merely regret, but frustration at the inability to change the past.

Tom: And when you actually got to the ending, it was cathartic and a relief, which fit perfectly with the theme of acceptance as the conclusion to the story.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: I only have a thing I wanted to say about this.

Phil: It was interesting that the director of this game, the man who established the studio, Ovo Sonico, and again, we're talking about the game The Last Day of June.

Phil: How long did it take you to twig on to the second meaning of that title?

Tom: What's the second meaning of the title?

Tom: Perhaps I haven't.

Phil: Well, that's a spoiler, but one of the character's names is June.

Tom: The characters have names?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: The main character, I forget his name, but the female character's name is June.

Tom: I think it was called Glasses.

Phil: No.

Phil: Carl.

Phil: Carl.

Tom: Okay.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Or as we say in Australia, Carl.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Carl.

Tom: Kazza.

Phil: Oh, Carl Kazza.

Phil: In his wonky wheelchair.

Tom: Kazza and Jazza.

Phil: Kazza and Jazza.

Phil: So obviously it never twigged on with you.

Phil: But the guy who established the studio...

Tom: Do you mean the twist?

Tom: That the title is a reference to the twist?

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: Look, the guy who established the studio...

Tom: Yes.

Phil: I think it's Massimo Garini.

Phil: He was the director for Shadows of the Damned, the grasshopper manufacturer game.

Phil: Now, I was a big fan of Shadows of the Damned.

Phil: That was the game that Mikami was also a game director on.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So I was really surprised by that, because that is obviously a very different game.

Phil: But apparently he took his big money from developing mainline games and then went and established his own studio back in Italy.

Phil: And the game got nominated for a BAFTA and won all these other awards.

Phil: So yeah, that was the only other thing I wanted to bring up.

Phil: If you've got anything else, I'm more than interested to hear about it.

Tom: What did you think of the twist at the ending?

Phil: Well, I thought that after the two of us had just come off of playing The Last of Edith Finch, we're again dealing with the very same kind of ending.

Phil: And I thought that was interesting.

Tom: I think here it was more effective and fitted.

Tom: I mean, fit the theme in the Edith Finch game perfectly fine as well.

Tom: But here, the pacing of it, it worked quite well with you attempting to change the past and eventually coming to a relieved acceptance that you can't.

Phil: Yeah, I thought that the last, let's say five...

Tom: At first, I was annoyed by it.

Phil: What annoyed you by it?

Phil: What annoyed you about it?

Tom: Merely that it, as far as the narrative is concerned, one could take it as an attempt to have your cake and eat it too, where you, and this can't be said without being a spoiler, so spoiler alert here.

Tom: Where you're playing as one character who is attempting to save the other character, but you want it to be a story about your inability to do this, yet you also want to give the audience some relief.

Tom: So you switch around who was saving who, which means you actually do, in a sense, save the character that you were attempting to save.

Phil: Right.

Phil: Is that the twist you're talking about?

Phil: While we're in spoiler land?

Phil: While we're in spoiler land, I always thought The Last Day of June was like June th.

Phil: You know, like this is what happened on The Last Day of June, that actually it was The Last Day of Her Life, June.

Phil: She died.

Phil: So The Game, The Last Day of June.

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So that's the double meaning, you know.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Now, in terms of the switch, I thought that The Last Ten Minutes of This Game was really the best.

Phil: You know, like you get given the option to tell her or not, you know, about your travail.

Phil: So basically, your...

Tom: I think you can't tell her even if you attempt to.

Phil: Well, I did tell her.

Phil: So...

Tom: Well, I pressed the button to tell her, and he appeared to attempt to tell her, but failed to tell her.

Phil: Well, I did it and succeeded, so maybe if you're using an Xbox controller instead...

Tom: Maybe you have to spam a button and it's a QT.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Well, maybe you just need to press a little harder, you know.

Tom: Well, I pressed the button and something happened, but maybe I'm not fluent enough in Jibberish to understand that he actually did tell her.

Phil: You got to jam that button.

Tom: He still ends up being killed, right?

Phil: Yeah, yeah, he's dead.

Phil: He's gone.

Tom: So whether you tell her or not, it's the same result.

Phil: Yeah, but the point is, like, you're reliving this event and you're saying, look, we're getting into this car.

Phil: We're going to get into an accident.

Phil: That's why he's making her drive, or her be the driver instead of the passenger.

Phil: And then she gets saved.

Phil: And the whole thing is he's telling her, hey, I tried to do everything.

Phil: I tried to unravel it.

Phil: I tried this, I tried that.

Phil: It didn't work.

Phil: So that she knows that he is the Ubermensch, or the Superman that she drew in the last page of that sketchbook.

Phil: So she knows that he's the Ubermensch that changed the fate.

Phil: And then of course, after the credits, they have a little, she was pregnant, they have the credits come up, and the little boy looks just like Kyle.

Tom: Literally.

Phil: Too much so, almost as if they just shrunk the character model, which they did.

Tom: That was very disturbing.

Tom: Well, you know what, also though, I hope the sequel is going to be about the Oedipus complex.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: But well, he goes to hand her a flower, and she thinks twice about not accepting it, and then she accepts it and hugs him.

Phil: So read into that, what you want.

Tom: No, she rejects it and hugs him.

Phil: And then the flower lays dormant on its side.

Phil: So, but I thought that the achievement name, so they, before they, just as they roll the credits, they give you an achievement called Wait For It.

Phil: Which, okay, I'll sit through the credits, but given the emotional roller coaster they've put us on for the last ten minutes, and the crescendo that they're building up for with the stinger at the end, is an achievement pop-up that says Wait For It, Wait For It!

Phil: It really, to me, was like, you know, obviously this is English as a second language, because, you know, it just wasn't subtle.

Phil: I did think the credit rolls and the arts were fine, but do you want any other spoiler talk before we get out of that?

Tom: Not really, but in spite of my initial reaction, negative reaction to it, I think it is a more interesting story of regret and frustration, if indeed it is her attempting to work out ways that he could have done things differently to avoid the events that transpired.

Tom: So in spite of my initial negative reaction to it, on reflection, I think the ending works quite well.

Phil: Hey, look, I think just we've got to say that we really, this game is brought to our attention by a regular listener of the show and I don't think we would have played it without his encouragement.

Phil: And certainly I was feeling...

Tom: I think you mean by the regular listener of the show.

Phil: Yeah, and at least regular commenter.

Phil: But, and I was playing it, I wasn't enjoying it.

Phil: But as you said, when I finished it, I said, okay, this is a game under game.

Phil: It's interesting, it's different.

Phil: It's from a foreign perspective, and it's certainly worth playing.

Phil: And as I said, The Last Day of June is available on Windows, PlayStation and Switch.

Phil: And probably Switch is a good choice for it.

Phil: Probably the most expensive, but still a good choice for it.

Phil: So all in all, I think on my scale, I'd give it a out of

Phil: It was certainly, yeah, challenging at time and laborious, but I think worth it in the long run and interesting enough for me to recommend it.

Phil: I don't know what you would give it.

Tom: I'm going to revise an old rating system, which is the dice roll.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Tom: That's unfortunate.

Tom: I am giving it a out of

Phil: What die do you have that has a on it?

Tom: A D

Phil: Ddoesn't have a ?

Tom: It goes to

Phil: Oh.

Phil: Well, my -sided die is to

Tom: No, actually, it's a Dso it goes to

Tom: Does that mean is actually a ?

Tom: That would make more sense.

Tom: In fact, I'm giving it a out of

Phil: Okay, so I gave it a you gave it a so out of which is an out of

Phil: Okay, so, yeah, I think we do need to reintroduce the die roll.

Phil: I do have to ask you...

Tom: Now I actually understand what the dice is.

Tom: It may be more successful than our previous attempt.

Phil: I do have to ask you what, like, color theme does your -sided die or -sided die have, and then I'll reveal the themes of my -sided die.

Tom: It's green with white numbers.

Phil: Is it see-through or solid?

Tom: Solid.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: I have a orange see-through -sided die.

Phil: Didn't have much choice in that.

Phil: The other die, -sided die I have, is a green camo -sided die.

Phil: Because, you know, when you're playing Dungeons and Dragons or Magic in the jungle, you don't want to draw attention to yourself, so that's why I've got the camo -sided die.

Phil: So, yeah, very interesting.

Tom: Fascinating.

Phil: Okay, well, thank you, Tom.

Phil: Again, I think it's an enjoyable game.

Phil: Before we get into the next game we want to give impressions to, I think it's time to have the second installment of a new segment that we launched in the last episode, which is Tom Towers reacts to the news.

Phil: The first news story I have here, and the theme of this is basically, I'm telling you news that you don't know about, you react and then I react to your reaction.

Phil: So, China bans Animal Crossing.

Phil: Now, when I first saw this headline, I was compelled to click on the article and read all the details of it, but China has banned Animal Crossing, the most popular game on the Switch right now, Switches have sold out because of the popularity of this game.

Phil: And before I say anything else, I just wondered if you wanted to speculate what's behind all this.

Tom: Well, have you been to the VG Press lately?

Phil: I have, it's % Animal Crossing, hey dude, turnips, eggs, bunny day, check out my wallpaper, I'm beating my wife, I need to stop drinking, just full of a bunch of Animal Crossing stuff.

Tom: It's completely insufferable.

Tom: So while I'm normally completely against censorship, when it comes to Animal Crossing, I'm happy to make an exception.

Phil: Oh, you think this is a Freedom of the Press type thing?

Tom: Well, one could interpret it that way, but I'm saying that we should follow China's lead and ban Animal Crossing in the Anglosphere as well.

Phil: I also have to say that I welcome China's ideas on a wide spectrum of topics.

Phil: And if they say that Animal Crossing should be banned, I just got to agree with them, for no reason other than the fact that they're China, and China is great.

Tom: And Animal Crossing is a blight on the face of the Earth.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Now, I speculated that China banned the game because I think that when all of this coronavirus stuff goes away, that people are going to think back to these times, and video gamers at least, and they're going to have a special connection with this Animal Crossing Switch game because with all these people stuck in their homes, with Steam backlogs as long as your arm and leg connected, for some reason they're sticking to this one game.

Phil: Now, don't get me wrong, I love Animal Crossing.

Phil: I put over hours into the DS game.

Phil: On the GameCube, I even bought the e-reader for the Game Boy Advance so that I could scan in cards and do all that.

Phil: So, you know, I've got standing on this issue, but...

Tom: This is why we need a social credit system, so that people like you can be rightly punished.

Phil: A social credit system, as is in place in China, you know.

Tom: Minus per every or so hours on Animal Crossing.

Tom: And that's being very lenient.

Phil: So, I think they were banning it because they didn't want people to associate the coronavirus with China.

Phil: And in banning this Japanese game that everyone associates with the coronavirus, if we can get rid of the game, that everyone in the future is going to remember.

Phil: Why did I like Animal Crossing so much on a Switch in ?

Phil: Oh, that's right, coronavirus.

Phil: So, if we can ban Animal Crossing, people won't remember the coronavirus, just like they don't remember the Spanish flu in

Phil: See, the Spanish...

Tom: There was no Animal Crossing back then.

Phil: There was no Animal Crossing.

Phil: So, why would we remember it?

Phil: No one remembers it.

Tom: The closest thing to Animal Crossing back then was Gernika.

Tom: And that's why it's known as the Spanish flu.

Phil: And that's why Gernika is hanging in the United Nations, because they're the only people that would pay for it and buy it and own it, you know.

Phil: Actually, Gernika wasn't painted until long after.

Tom: But he's from that era.

Phil: Yeah, all right.

Phil: Okay, so...

Tom: Do you want me to reference the Garcia Lorca poem instead?

Tom: I think the Picasso reference has a broader appeal.

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

Phil: I mean, Spanish is the number two language in the world, but not for long.

Phil: I think Chinese is going to the top.

Phil: Now, actually, no one really cares why China banned Animal Crossing, but it was because dissidents in Hong Kong were using it to communicate back and forth between each other.

Phil: And of course...

Tom: I think it's being banned just as part of a general crackdown on online games.

Phil: Well, maybe if they brought out...

Tom: For communication reasons.

Phil: They should ban all games except for Crackdown because no one would play it, and that would stop all sorts of communication.

Phil: But you know what I'm saying?

Phil: If they want to crack down on something, let's Crackdown out.

Phil: Let it be the only game available.

Phil: No one will play it.

Phil: And second news story for Tom Towers Reacts to the News is we've got a special game, Game Under Urology.

Phil: That didn't come out right.

Phil: The voice of Peppy dies, and I know you're a big Peppy fan.

Tom: Massive Peppy fan, obviously.

Tom: Which character was he?

Tom: Is he the frog?

Phil: Oh, so you know at video game.

Tom: Lilac Wars, right?

Phil: Well, the funny thing is, is the hyperlink to this story is the story.

Phil: Rick May, and maybe we should call him Rick May not now, Team Fortress Soldier and Peppy the Hare voice actor dies at age from coronavirus.

Phil: And it's like, you don't even need to click on a link like that.

Phil: I mean, that is the story.

Tom: Peppy the Hare, the frog in Lilac Wars, everyone absolutely despises, but again, like Waluigi, what fucking character in Star Fox stands out?

Tom: It is literally just the fucking frog.

Phil: I'll get to it.

Tom: They named a game Star Fox, and the fucking fox in it is completely forgettable.

Phil: Well, we'll get to that.

Phil: But again, this headline, IGN...

Tom: So why is he even relevant?

Tom: If this was the dude who voiced the frog, he didn't voice the frog.

Phil: He's not the frog guy.

Tom: This is my problem with this being a news story.

Phil: This is your problem?

Phil: This?

Phil: This is your problem with the news story?

Tom: Yes, it is.

Phil: That it's not Slippy who died.

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: The name of the article, Rick May, Team Fortress soldier and Peppy the Hare voice actor, dies at age from coronavirus.

Phil: It occurs to me that this is like the s trailer version.

Phil: Like the hyperlink is like the trailer version of s movies where they tell you everything you need to know about the movie.

Phil: You don't even have to go and see it anymore.

Phil: It's like the trailer spoiler that we talked about off air last week.

Phil: But yeah, Rick May voiced the rabbit.

Phil: And the rabbit is famous for saying, do a barrel roll.

Phil: Now, you know why I know it's famous for saying do a barrel roll?

Phil: Because I've been told times since Rick May died that that is a big thing in video gaming.

Phil: And I listened to another major video game podcast this morning on my drive to my essential workplace where they were basically in tears that this person that we've never even heard of, died.

Phil: And look, it's not like he's the dude that voices Mario.

Tom: He didn't even voice the frog.

Phil: He didn't even voice Slippy.

Phil: You know, I can do a Slippy.

Phil: He's also the voice of the Team Fortress soldier.

Phil: Do you have any memories?

Phil: Do you have any memories?

Phil: This is a time to reflect after all, Tom.

Phil: Do you have any memories of the Team Fortress soldier and what he may have said and what he would say now?

Phil: One can only consider.

Tom: We just talked about the very affecting Last Day of June referenced that Dragon Cancer, an even heavier game, but I have not cried as much as I did as when I first killed the soldier in Team Fortress

Phil: I never cried as much as when I first played Team Fortress with a keyboard and mouse and couldn't figure out what the hell was going on.

Phil: This was about years ago, of course.

Phil: So he died at age from coronavirus.

Phil: And it's like, OK, look, if he was OK, you know, that's sad.

Phil: But I mean, he could have died because the dominoes came to the doorbell, came to his doorbell and rang it.

Phil: You know, he could have died because he saw a different colored butterfly through his window.

Phil: I mean, you know, I just, I just, I mean.

Tom: What's the average age of death now?

Phil: Average age of death, I think for someone my age, it's like or

Phil: I think it's gone down slightly in the States.

Phil: It's probably gone up here in Australia, but.

Tom: It's also gone down in England.

Tom: And the next person we're going to talk about who was killed by the coronavirus was also

Tom: And that is Timbrook Taylor.

Phil: No.

Phil: Oh, hey, this is not fake.

Phil: I didn't know that.

Phil: I did not know that.

Phil: Oh, man, because I grew up watching The Goodies with Bill Oddie and Graham Green, I think.

Tom: Yep, correct.

Phil: And Timbrook Taylor.

Phil: And these guys did sketch comedy confined to a set group of characters that they played consistently.

Phil: So it wasn't like they were changing characters from sketch to sketch.

Tom: It was basically a sitcom slash sketch show combination.

Phil: Yeah, and I guess it could be remembered.

Tom: And Timbrook Taylor was also important in the genesis of Monty Python.

Tom: And he was on at last the show with John Cleese and Graham Chapman and Marty Feldman.

Phil: Yeah, and Timbrook Taylor exactly was around at the genesis of Monty Python.

Tom: And he could have been in Monty Python.

Phil: He chose not to.

Tom: And thank God for that because we got the goodies.

Phil: Yeah, and the goodies, I think if you look at the show like The Young Ones, which was another kind of comedy show of the same nature, the goodies laid the path for The Young Ones in a very consistent way.

Tom: They laid the path basically for the new wave of British comedy that The Young Ones were a part of and which continues in things like Peep Show, which have got slightly more conventional US.

Tom: Yeah, but that was basically the beginning of that movement many years in advance of it.

Tom: And it's much more revolutionary than Monty Python because Monty Python, contrary to popular belief, came about in an outbreak of surrealist-style comedy and absurdist comedy.

Phil: Yes, yeah.

Phil: It wasn't standing out by itself.

Phil: And it was influenced by...

Phil: What was Spike Milligan's...?

Tom: I forgot what it was called, but that was indeed a massive influence on them.

Phil: Yeah, like Spike Milligan, their comedy troupe, and I hate myself for not knowing this right now, but he was a part of a comedy troupe, and that really laid the framework down for that avant-garde British comedy.

Phil: I'll think about it, but you keep...

Phil: The Goons.

Tom: Yep, that's it.

Phil: So I'm really sad to hear this news.

Phil: But at the same time...

Tom: He was

Phil: He was and he could have died of anything.

Phil: So the way that they were talking about this on this other major podcast was, it just shouldn't have happened.

Phil: Things like this just shouldn't have happened.

Phil: It's avoidable.

Phil: If only Trump had done something, this -year-old English actor living in Sweden could have been saved somehow.

Tom: Well, Sweden also have a lax strategy as well.

Tom: So they could be going after the Swedish party that is in power, but probably no one knows who the Swedish party is.

Tom: Or if there even is a Swedish party.

Phil: I've got a -ounce malt liquor in my hand, so I think in tribute to Rick May or Rick Maynott, I'm going to do a barrel roll with this and pour one out for a video game champion.

Tom: And just before we finish denigrating Monty Python, I've got to point out that one of the most famous Monty Python sketches is about a joke that is so funny, anyone who sees it dies.

Tom: The good is, unlike the pretentious Pythons, managed to kill someone with one of their sketches, I believe, the Yorkshire pudding sketch.

Phil: Oh, really?

Tom: And Graham Chapman, who died at the peak of a so far even worse pandemic, the HIV AIDS pandemic, he died at the height of that, but he died of cancer, not HIV AIDS, and not even HIV AIDS-related complications in regards to cancer.

Tom: So that's another complete failure, whereas Timbrook Taylor managed to die in a historic pandemic, unlike as yet any Monty Python.

Tom: So yet another victory for the goodies over Monty Python.

Phil: Yeah, and it's interesting that in people died of AIDS-related injuries.

Phil: So, you know, we all go around...

Tom: That's in Africa though, mainly so.

Tom: It doesn't matter.

Phil: No, but that's the point about all of this.

Phil: And Graham Chapman, you know, I didn't know him obviously, but yeah, he died of cancer, and we talk about AIDS...

Tom: And he did die young.

Phil: He did die exceptionally young.

Tom: Well, not that young actually,

Phil: That's a lot older than I thought.

Tom: So fuck him too.

Phil: Well, I thought he was in his s.

Tom: At that stage, they should be marching into the gas chambers, if you ask me.

Phil: We're not going to ask you.

Phil: I think we all know where you stand from Episode

Phil: But you share that view with Time Magazine, which is why I did not edit it out, Gargan.

Phil: The Man of the Year goes to the most influential person.

Phil: It doesn't matter how liked or unliked he or she or it is.

Tom: It was massively liked at the time.

Phil: We're running out of time, as is our listeners.

Phil: So let's just cut into another game that we both...

Tom: No, we have not moved on before.

Phil: Oh, you've got more.

Tom: Yes, this is just the last part of the coronavirus extravaganza.

Phil: Because there haven't been enough media content about coronavirus.

Tom: Yes, well, I don't know if you're aware of this, but Australians have very lax hygiene standards compared to much of the world.

Phil: I would say they're on par.

Tom: Well, I don't know what part of the world you're comparing it to, but in my estimation, they're well below par.

Tom: And I'll just give you an example of this.

Tom: Since it was announced that coronavirus had reached the shores of Australia, and now since the stage three lockdown on my allocated exercise, which is a valid reason to go out into the world, while riding a bicycle, I have been both sneezed and coughed on by passing joggers.

Phil: They're just showing off.

Phil: They just don't like bikers.

Phil: You know, I have seen this sort of athletic elitism.

Phil: If you're a jogger, then you hate people on bikes.

Phil: If you're a biker, you hate people that jog.

Phil: If you're a person in a rowboat, then you hate everyone.

Phil: You know, it's just anything you can do to put down the fellow athlete somehow.

Tom: So if the rowers on the rivers, though there are now no rowers on the rivers, could reach, they'd be attempting to spit on the passersby, you're saying?

Phil: I think so.

Tom: But I would suggest that showing one's disdain by coughing and sneezing would indicate a bad level of hygiene.

Phil: I think it's exhibitionism, really.

Phil: Because I do think that people that exercise in public, are exercising for some sort of sexual exhibitionist type activity.

Phil: I think that people that wish to exercise in public already are out there saying, hey, check me out, you know.

Phil: I'm sweating, I'm breathing hard.

Tom: So you want exercise confined to the bedroom?

Phil: No, no, not at all.

Phil: I'm just saying that people are of a certain mindset.

Phil: People who go in public are in a certain mindset.

Phil: You know, if you're driving in your car down the highway, you're really just saying, hey, look at me, check me out.

Phil: You know, I'm a person, I'm in public.

Tom: That reminds me, I should just add as an addendum on the car statements in the previous episode of The Game Under Podcast, that specifically the reason one cannot make the comparison between real estate and aspirational standards is because buildings designed for the use of poor people, depending on your attitude to the poor, can be deliberately designed to be as bad as possible, whereas a vehicle which is designed to be as cheap as possible usually has to be sold to the people attempting to buy it.

Tom: So the idea is, at least in terms of marketing, it has to be attractive.

Phil: In terms of marketing, that's true, but there are cars that are developed specifically for the rental market, and if you've ever driven one, you know what I'm talking about.

Phil: I mean, there are cars that are designed to be horrible.

Phil: Speaking of cars, before we get into our impressions of Death and Taxes, which is a video game, not a philosophy, I think you mentioned you wanted to say something about Forza Horizon that you didn't mention in the last show.

Tom: Yes, just two things I forgot to mention.

Tom: The first is, once you've completed all of the different race types or got to a certain level in them for winning races or just completing them, you basically get experience in different level tiers for each type of racing.

Tom: And once you get sufficiently deep into the career mode for those particular races, you unlock a finale race, which is usually of a spectacular length and show a much greater level of care in the layout of the path you're following.

Tom: And there are two highlights.

Tom: One is an incredibly long dirt race that is basically across the entire map from one end to the other, because it's a dirt race that takes a very long time.

Tom: The other is a race that basically takes you on a lap around the entirety of the map on a road race.

Phil: That's so cool.

Phil: That is so cool.

Phil: So it takes you it takes you through the entire geographic thing or it takes you through every single mini track?

Tom: It's an open world race.

Tom: So the races are based on roads.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: So it takes you on a circuit around the entirety of the map basically, around the outer roads.

Phil: Okay, that's what I meant.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So it's an outer roads thing.

Phil: Okay, that is still cool.

Tom: It is.

Tom: And those are highlights of the game.

Tom: Not just those two, but all of the long races are, show a much more detailed and interesting design.

Tom: And they are worth playing absolutely compared to the rest of the game.

Tom: And I also mentioned the LEGO track in Horizon LEGO Speed Champions.

Tom: And I forgot to mention, I think I said it had a high speed corner, but in one of the layouts, it is very well used.

Tom: And it would be a highlight in, based on Forza Motorsport it would be one of the better tracks in a Forza Motorsport game.

Tom: So it is consistent with the rest of the quality in the LEGO Speed Champions in terms of their circuit design.

Tom: So it will not be a disappointment to any long standing Players of Forza Horizon series that wanted a track to mess around in.

Tom: When they finally have got one, it is of very high quality, with the other layout being based more on shorter corners and shorter straights and a more technical thing.

Tom: So it's got the best of both worlds.

Phil: I got to say after our last episode, I went to buy a copy of this.

Phil: It's still stupidly expensive.

Phil: And you know, you get it for free with Game Pass.

Phil: And then what's the name of that pirate game that's on the Xbox?

Tom: Sea of Thieves.

Phil: Sea of Thieves.

Phil: I want to get that as well so I can play that.

Phil: That is stupidly expensive.

Phil: It's like bucks or something.

Tom: That's because they're both still very popular, I believe.

Phil: Yeah, but come on.

Phil: You get them for free on Game Pass.

Phil: So why are the physical copies so expensive?

Phil: Probably because they had low print runs because they think no one's going to buy the physical copies.

Phil: But I almost fired up Forza just to sort of get into the vibe of it.

Phil: But I've got to tell you, I've played a lot of games lately.

Phil: I played...

Phil: What was that black and white press game from the GameCube?

Phil: From Platinum, the ultra-violent one.

Tom: Do you mean Mad World on the Wii?

Phil: Yeah, Mad World on the Wii.

Phil: I was playing that this weekend.

Tom: That was originally going to have a metal soundtrack, apparently.

Phil: Well, it may or may not have worked, but...

Tom: Well, metal could have fit it, but the rap soundtrack was...

Phil: Was good...

Tom: .

Tom: what made it an original title and stand out.

Phil: Yeah, much like...

Phil: what was that other game that we both played on the PlayStation ?

Phil: No, not that one.

Phil: The Samurai...

Tom: The Beat'em Up?

Phil: The Samurai one that had the cartoon aesthetic, but had the rap music.

Tom: Afro Samurai?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: But I forget, we've talked about Afro Samurai before.

Phil: You enjoyed that game or...?

Tom: I have never played it.

Phil: Oh, really?

Phil: I think you'd enjoy it.

Phil: I can tell you one thing I did enjoy, and that was a demo for a game that just came out.

Tom: Well, before you do, I did just have one final thing.

Phil: Oh, yeah, of course, because I can never actually transition cleanly from one topic to the next without you interrupting.

Tom: Well, if you had an interesting topic to bring up, I might let you proceed.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: Well, I went to the doctor today.

Phil: I've got cancer.

Tom: That's not that interesting.

Tom: We were just talking about coronavirus.

Tom: At least get something interesting.

Phil: Yeah, I'm sorry.

Phil: Anyway, continue on with whatever it was you were going to say.

Tom: Yeah, I was going to say one thing I forgot to mention was how the different drive trains drive in Forza Horizon

Tom: And the all-wheel drive layout is tremendously overpowered.

Tom: Obviously, all-wheel drive in terms of racing should generally be, without question, the superior platform.

Tom: But it's got virtually no understeer whatsoever.

Tom: And the understeer is completely correctable, like it is in four-wheel drive cars, by lifting off the throttle.

Tom: So you've basically got something that has the oversteer potential of rear-wheel drive, but with significantly greater traction and not enough of a detriment in terms of weight.

Tom: So that basically, if you're building anything, you will be inclined to make it all-wheel drive, because it won't be able to compete with other all-wheel drive cars in races, if it isn't.

Tom: And in some of the races, you can sometimes get stuck with a lot of all-wheel drive cars when you do not have one.

Tom: And the other thing is the front-wheel drive cars, while they are quite understeery, unlike the all-wheel drive cars, the amount of oversteer that is induced by you lifting off the throttle when you are cornering, essentially makes them, again, nearly as oversteery as a rear-wheel drive car, except that you won't be able to completely flick the rear end out and initiate a drift or power slide.

Tom: So it's very arcading when it comes to the comparison between drivetrains, but at least there is some reference to the differences between them, so that if you are doing four-wheel drive, you will have to drive differently than if you were driving rear-wheel drive or all-wheel drive, even if the difference in cornering speed between a rear-wheel drive and four-wheel drive car won't be that different, and nor will the line you're attempting to take either.

Phil: And this is for Forza Horizon available on Game Pass.

Phil: I probably on the next episode wanted to ask you more about Game Pass to see what other games are on there and available as well.

Phil: So with that, should we go on to Death and Taxes?

Tom: Yes, we may now finally proceed.

Phil: Okay, thank you.

Phil: So Death and Taxes, I don't know how this game came to my attention, but it's just come out in February.

Phil: It's from a company called Placeholder Games.

Phil: They're a small developer.

Phil: I forget what country they're in, but it's again a small team based out of Estonia.

Phil: Interestingly enough.

Phil: And they've worked on games like Disco Elysium, Might and Magic Heroes.

Phil: So who knows what work they did on that.

Phil: But this is essentially a Papers, Please clone.

Phil: And you are essentially the Grim Reaper.

Phil: And every day you're given a pile of people that need to die.

Phil: You must select amongst who dies and who lives, as opposed to Papers, Please, where you got to select who crosses the border and who didn't.

Phil: Is that a pretty good description of the gameplay?

Tom: Yes, I would say so.

Phil: And so it starts out quite simply.

Phil: Where they'll give you like four people, and they'll say two people have to die today.

Phil: And basically you read the profiles, and you're like, okay, well, that guy is

Phil: He did voiceovers for a couple of video games.

Phil: He's had a good run.

Phil: The other person is

Phil: They've just graduated with an advanced degree in chemistry, and they're developing a anti-cancer chemical medicine that has proved to be effective.

Phil: Okay, that's pretty easy.

Phil: The -year-old gets it.

Tom: And you'd be very invested in saving that person now.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And so then the...

Phil: So basically the gameplay is you've got a desktop, and you get files, and there's a supervisor that tells you what you should do.

Phil: And then every day after you've done your thing, you can check your phone and check on news headlines from a fake Twitter that says, a -year-old voice actor who died at age Nintendo fans killed themselves over the prospect.

Phil: In other news, a -year-old postgraduate developed what was thought to be a good cancer-saving chemical, and it turns out...

Tom: So the chemical actually saves cancer.

Phil: So that was a bad decision.

Phil: The chemical saves cancer.

Phil: You know, people died of cancer.

Phil: So both of those instances are made up examples.

Phil: So then the next day, you'll get like six, and they'll say, okay, you've got to kill...

Phil: Three people have to die today.

Phil: Avoid killing people who work in the food service industry.

Phil: So you'll get a profile that says, a guy is a restaurant owner, cheats on his wife, has raped three women, cheats on his taxes, but runs a successful restaurant franchise.

Phil: And then, you know, the other...

Phil: So, you know, you start getting down to these things, where you get these different conditions that are put on you each day that makes the game play more challenging and more interesting.

Phil: Is that mirror your experience, Tom?

Tom: We should also add that your advisor is Fate, and Fate is basically a Bond villain with a cat.

Tom: So the tone is very tongue-in-cheek.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Tom: At least at the beginning.

Tom: And, well, obviously for me, it was not very interesting because I just checked, is the person or older?

Tom: If they were, I marked them as die, and if they weren't, I marked them as live.

Phil: So you adopted the OK Boomer philosophy.

Tom: Yes, I did.

Tom: The famous eugenicist movement of today, the OK Boomer movement.

Phil: I found the demo interesting enough.

Phil: It wasn't perfect.

Phil: There's a lot of different things I would have done had I been designing this game.

Tom: Well, you compare it to Papers, Please, but the first thing is that it is very visually uninspired and uninteresting.

Tom: And tactically, there's virtually no feedback at all.

Tom: You've got a very bland table with two empty drawers that, as far as the demo is concerned, serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

Tom: I believe in the future you'll probably end up with items stored in them.

Tom: But you also have a fax machine, which you click on once you've filled out all the forms.

Tom: And you have a marker with which you tick one box, yes, die or live, and that's basically it.

Tom: So while it is clearly inspired by Papers, Please!

Tom: and using a similar layout, it is not a very interesting rendition of the Papers, Please!

Tom: visual structure.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: And it was my first reaction that when I had to fax something, I would take the cards and insert them in the slot in the fax machine, and that wasn't working.

Phil: And then I just figured, oh, you've got to press this big round button, and it just takes care of everything.

Phil: And the tactile nature of Papers, Please!

Phil: where you had to stamp and it got that ka-chunk, you know, when you're stamping something, that very satisfying feel is lacking from the game.

Phil: And even the pen itself was unsatisfying in terms of how everything worked.

Phil: Things get cluttered.

Phil: I mean, it would have been better...

Tom: And just the pen, for example, while you can scribble on the paper, and it marks the paper, to actually choose between live or die, you have to actually click the box.

Tom: You can't draw through the box, marking it with an X or whatever.

Tom: That does not work.

Tom: You have to click on it.

Tom: Again, going against what should be a very tactile layout.

Phil: It would have been better if they had had a stamp for you to stamp, live or die, a check mark, and that would have solved that problem.

Phil: The other thing I would have wanted was, instead of filling up the desk with a lamp and these other things, and the rules that you don't need, you don't need the rules displayed the whole time, would have been a die or live tray.

Phil: Because that's how I ended up using the screen anyway.

Phil: It's like on a cursory inspection, okay, I've got to let three people who work in food service live.

Phil: So I just found, you know, four of the people that work in food service, I put them over on the live side, which I made the left.

Phil: And again, the human mind will come up with its own games and devices for this sort of thing.

Phil: But it would have been nicer to have a live and die tray.

Phil: And yeah, it just lacked the finesse and detail of Papers, Please.

Phil: And ordinarily, I'd say, well, there's only eight people that work on this game.

Phil: And again, the name of the game is Death and Taxes from Placeholder Games.

Phil: It's on PC only, so far as I can tell.

Phil: But usually, I'd cut them some slack.

Phil: But Lucas Pope made Papers, Please, and he's one person.

Phil: Like, he made the whole game.

Phil: People did contribute to the music, but, you know, if you're going to do a clone, I get it.

Phil: It's not going to be the best.

Phil: It's not going to be the original.

Phil: And I think that what they've done so far with the demo is enough for me to actually buy the game, which is only like bucks right now.

Phil: So I will be buying the full game.

Phil: I did find it enjoyable.

Phil: I found the interactions at the end of the day with the boss, Fate, to be very entertaining.

Phil: Because he says, so, you know, how are you finding this work?

Phil: And then they have options like, yeah, it's pretty easy.

Phil: Or, yeah, it's really good to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Phil: Or, you know, I'm not really too...

Tom: There's boomers from the rest of the world.

Phil: Yeah, or for you, in your case.

Phil: Or, you know, I really don't like this.

Phil: You know, couldn't you be giving me more information about these people?

Phil: And the kind of person that I am, you know, I just immediately fell into that compliant work, you know, type person.

Phil: It's like, hey, you want me to kill three people who work in food service?

Phil: Fine, I'll do it.

Phil: You know, I mean, these are the rules, you know.

Phil: Hey, it's my job, so I'll just...

Phil: And that's what I liked about it.

Phil: And that's what I liked about Papers, Please.

Phil: It scratches the same itch or itches the same scratch.

Phil: And yeah, I really enjoyed it.

Phil: And I'm definitely going to buy the game and give it a try.

Phil: Was your impressions overall much different from that?

Tom: Well, they were certainly not as positive.

Tom: And the other thing I would bring up that is in stark contrast to Papers, Please was the...

Tom: In Papers, Please, you're looking at a passport to compare it with what a real passport should have on it and looking for forgery and things like that.

Tom: Here you're just reading basic information about someone and comparing it to what you've been told in regards to killing people.

Tom: So far, at least, it is literally as simple as when you're told to kill people who work in the food industry seeing what their job is, essentially.

Phil: Yeah, you're right.

Phil: And that's it.

Phil: You're right.

Phil: And the other thing is as opposed to a passport, which is only giving you objective information, this is giving you opinions as well.

Phil: It's giving you a description of who the person is and what they've done in their life.

Phil: And so that's what puts this game on a completely lower level.

Phil: I think also too, like one element of it that plays into it a little bit is that it plays into that whole, you see a job description of someone, and so your own state of mind plays into play of, oh, that's a useless job.

Phil: I'll kill them, regardless of what the rules are that day.

Phil: We've got to say this is only the demo.

Phil: So things can change, and we'll find out what everything else is for as we play the rest of it.

Phil: But I'm not a climate denier or anything like that, but when I saw one of the job positions was climate change researcher, I was like, oh, you're dying, you're useless.

Phil: Because whether you think climate change or whatever, it's just like if someone's making their money off the climate change industry, then they're useless, right?

Phil: Because it's not going to change anything, you know?

Phil: So, you know, your own post...

Tom: What you're saying is they need to become an eco-terrorist.

Phil: Look, if there was an eco-terrorist on the area, it would have killed them as well, you know, because...

Tom: Well, they would have been doing something.

Phil: If it, like, you know, but if it had said...

Phil: I think one of the ones was like a politician, or he's a politician, but he cheated his way to the top.

Phil: And most people would say, oh, well, let's just kill him.

Phil: But I was like, no, they're playing with stuff here.

Phil: And I think, again, like with Last Day of June, because these developers are from Estonia, there's that little bit of lost in translation going on.

Phil: And that's why it's interesting to me.

Phil: And so because it's a demo, I'm going to look past some of those things, but you're absolutely right.

Phil: Fundamentally, it lacks the things that made Peepers Please my number one game of the s.

Tom: And are we going to give the demo a rating?

Phil: I don't think that we should, but we will.

Tom: Well, I may not continue playing it, so I'm going to.

Phil: Okay, I'm going to give the demo a out of

Tom: So it's half a rating better than Last Day of June.

Phil: Yeah, because of that itch that it's scratching, or scratching that itch, or whatever, whatever the phrase is.

Tom: And I'm going to give it a out of

Phil: Ooh, so that's an out of which would be a out of

Phil: Well, in any case, the demo is free, and I would encourage people to give it a try if you like Papers, Please.

Phil: And if you don't like Papers, Please, why are you listening to this podcast?

Phil: So I think we're going to wrap it up there, unless there's something else that you want to finish the show with, Tom.

Tom: Well, I have got to bring up the history book I referenced in the previous episode of the show, because whenever I bring up politics, I always have to have a balanced perspective and mention both sides.

Phil: Okay.

Tom: So in that episode, I think it could be inferred that I was implying that particular racist trains of thought and arguments are identical and equally stupid today as they were years ago.

Tom: But if anyone were to read that book or look at history whatsoever, as in previous episodes, I've mentioned that Churchill, for instance, was tremendously racist, but people would have issue.

Tom: Some people may have issue with that statement because everyone was racist back in Churchill's day.

Tom: But that isn't really true.

Tom: Throughout history, there have been racist people, non-racist people, and people who oppose racism.

Phil: So no, I just want to underscore that.

Phil: Based on everything I've read about Winston Churchill, and I think he's admirable in many ways, and he was a drunk as well.

Phil: And people are not perfect people, but he was exceptionally racist on the basis of the experiences that he lived.

Phil: And to diminish his experiences by saying, oh yeah, but everyone was racist back then.

Phil: No, everyone wasn't racist back then.

Phil: People who had certain experiences were racist.

Phil: People that had certain experiences weren't racist.

Phil: And I think this kind of white walling of people who lived in the past is really insulting to the individuality of people who are living today as well.

Phil: Because it would be quite easy years from now for people to make some sweeping characterization about everyone on the planet Earth felt this or anyone on the planet Earth felt that.

Phil: And those people that lived back in Winston Churchill's days were just as individual as any of us.

Phil: And I think it's giving people A, a past to be racist or backward thinking.

Phil: And B, you know, completely ignorant of how people think.

Tom: And if you're a Churchill fan, or if you're a patriot of a country, for instance, if we're applying this to a historical event in a particular country that people may find offensive because it's now seen to be bad or whatever, own it.

Tom: I don't understand.

Tom: If you are a Churchill fan, why would you not like him just because he was racist?

Phil: Which I am.

Phil: Like, you know, if you're putting the pluses and minuses on a column for Winston Churchill, you know, would I like him if I met him?

Phil: Probably not.

Phil: Would he like me if I met him?

Phil: Most definitely not.

Tom: I was going to say most definitely.

Phil: Yeah, but...

Tom: But then I remembered your Irish heritage.

Phil: But in term...

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: But in terms of his...

Phil: He had an American mother, at least.

Phil: So that might be an in, at least for a conversation.

Phil: But as soon as he finds out I'm from California, that conversation will be over.

Phil: But the...

Phil: And the pluses and minuses, yeah.

Phil: I think Winston Churchill had a totally positive impact on the world.

Phil: Does that make him a perfect person?

Phil: No.

Phil: He was a racist.

Phil: He was a drunk.

Phil: And a lot of the things he did, you know, severely harmed a lot of people.

Tom: I would reverse that.

Tom: I would say as a person, he's a better human being than a politician and his impact on the world.

Phil: And let's not remind ourselves that it's been one of the main participants in saving Western civilization for what it's worth.

Phil: The British public unceremoniously dumped him, and then he stayed in public service as a member of the House after that for decades more.

Phil: Whereas these days, he would have just gotten a consultancy and turned into a Tony Blair-type character and making tens of millions of dollars under the Capitol.

Tom: That's why I bring him up as a better human being.

Tom: I think you have to give him credit that he stuck to his ideals and conception of the world in spite of the world changing around him.

Phil: Yep, definitely.

Tom: Unlike a Tony Blair.

Phil: Yeah, which is a flim flam.

Phil: Now look, Tony Blair is a very interesting character, and there's been great books written about him that are entertaining more than anything else, including his own biography.

Phil: And in his own way, I do see him as like a British Bill Clinton, and Bill Clinton and Tony Blair both have their foibles.

Tom: Well, they are of the same political generation, and basically identical in their policies and thinking.

Phil: Absolutely.

Tom: With Blair being slightly even more aggressive in his thought on an international stage, not in terms of in Britain itself.

Phil: I could bore our listeners all night, but I do think that, yeah, they're cut from the same swath, and certainly their ability to make money off of their office after office is also identical.

Phil: But I've driven you off of your main point, if you just want to go on with that.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Just back to the point of balance, not only are the standard racist arguments and thoughts and the proclivity for racists, not including, again, racists with some sort of personal integrity like Churchill, to deny the fact that they're racist, which is very popular throughout the history of racism, so too are the arguments against racism very much identical to the arguments today.

Tom: So I'm just bringing that up for balance, that both pro-racist and anti-racist arguments are basically the same ever since meritocracy took over from social Darwinism, and both sides are not really in any way intellectually interesting.

Phil: Yep, they haven't evolved much, and certainly are not very intellectually interesting on either side of the coin.

Phil: And so...

Tom: I think that's also a large failing of meritocracy itself, because meritocracy, as was mentioned in the previous episode, is essentially just social Darwinism with all the interesting and amusing and grand metaphysical themes of social Darwinism removed.

Phil: Indeed.

Phil: Is that all you have to say on that topic?

Tom: The last thing I will say, just because we also mentioned Baudrillard in the previous podcast, one of the few interesting contributions from Baudrillard, from an idea perspective, is basically, and I think he comes after Guy Debord's Society of the Spectacle, which also might be relevant today, but his Simulation and Simulacra.

Tom: Where all political thought and the general consciousness of the populace is looking at things that are simulations and seeing them as reality.

Tom: And this would be relevant to how, at least people claim, policy is made, where everything is done through the lens of mathematical projections as to how things may play out.

Phil: Is that a sentence?

Tom: Yes.

Tom: And it was, contrary to popular belief, actually worded worse than Baudrillard's writing.

Phil: You did that on purpose, I'm sure.

Phil: The final thing I'll say, because we haven't said a swear word in this podcast, I usually, when we're filing this for iTunes...

Tom: Just wait though, but on that point, on that point, yes.

Tom: The other thing, and I think we alluded to that in a previous episode, the thing that is particularly funny, given that all of these postmodern thinkers are seen to be hysterically radical figures destroying Western civilization and inspiring generations of activists and so forth.

Tom: My reading of them, nothing could be further from the truth.

Tom: They are essentially, and this is why, again, conservatives have such an issue with them, they are offering a different conception of conservatives.

Tom: Whenever I finish reading any of their books, my reaction is the same as when I read a right-wing conservative book, which is, well, that's bad.

Tom: I wish someone else would do something about this.

Phil: Yeah, but aren't you virtue signaling to a certain degree when you say, oh, left is wrong, right is wrong?

Tom: No, I'm saying conservatism is wrong.

Phil: Okay.

Tom: And I think objectively conservatism, like progressivism, is wrong by default given that they are arbitrary positions.

Phil: Right.

Tom: So they are by default concluding that everything currently is correct or everything ought to be changed.

Phil: Oh, that is not a state of nature that exists.

Tom: That's why they're wrong.

Phil: That is absurd.

Tom: And I think the greatest straw man of those two positions are.

Phil: Yeah, but straw man positions exist for fundraising.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: You know, so can I say the F word now?

Tom: Yes, you can.

Tom: Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Phil: Jesus Christ.

Tom: Yep, the last aggression that I forgot.

Tom: The problem with history book.

Tom: I'll finish that book and I've now read several history books.

Tom: I'm an expert on history books.

Tom: There's a big issue with the practice of history, and I would recommend that people watch history lectures instead.

Tom: Not school lectures, but history lectures by authors promoting books or random historians doing a lecture to an academic audience, not a student audience, because school lectures suffer from this problem to an even worse degree.

Tom: Basically, history books are in the tradition of epic poetry.

Tom: There is no denying this fact.

Tom: The problem is, historians are not poets or creative writers.

Tom: So they do not know how to tell a story.

Tom: And it's very easy to illustrate in drawing the global color line, which I still recommend.

Tom: But basically, this book was very well described the racist implementation of policy in those years.

Tom: And it made some references to previous policies.

Tom: But this is basic backstory that was massively important, because the significance for someone who is not familiar with the policies of the empires that were active at the time would not necessarily be aware, or at least the point is not driven home enough by the book.

Tom: But these were actually massive reactionary policies that were being implemented.

Tom: That were actually significantly more racist and significantly more oppressive than the preceding policies, and significantly limited the movement of not just non-white people, but in many ways white people as well, compared to previous policies.

Tom: And because, for two reasons, one, because history is now academic, and based on empiricism, which it always was, but to a higher standard now, obviously people want to be careful about discussing things that they're not as specialised in as other historians.

Tom: But it ends up creating weird descriptions of a time period that exists completely as its own beyond a basic reference to it here and there, which doesn't really give you a good perspective on why the events and the changes that were taking place were significant.

Tom: And the other issue was also another problem of one, both taboos and two specialisations.

Tom: While there is some reference in history books to the material gains that the people implementing these ideological platforms might get from them, particularly in drawing the global colour line, they did a reasonable job of emphasising why these policies were being implemented when the power of the native peoples in various colonies had grown to a certain point, thus, obviously, you're conserving your social status as well as your material power over other people.

Tom: That's very much in the background when, if you are reading any historical documents, you can't exclude the ideological thoughts that people have, but usually they're very much aware of the practical gains they have out of anything they're implementing.

Tom: And I find that most history stuff that I've read really under emphasizes that aspect of the people involved in terms of their thought and in terms of why the countries involved are doing what they are doing.

Phil: Indeed, that's true today when you look at talking heads and quote experts who are called to come on and talk and chatter on nightly politics shows.

Phil: Nothing they say is not influenced by the fact that they know who's paying them to come on to the network to speak about such topics.

Phil: And that's on both sides of the ideological spectrum.

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: Okay, well with that, I think we can close out episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg, and I've been joined for this marvelous episode by Mr.

Phil: Tom Towers.

Phil: Thanks for listening.

Phil: Record.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: And wait, wait.

Tom: Wait.

Tom: Record this quickly.

Tom: I just forgot, I can't let us go, because I mentioned projection in the previous episode, and as a person who is skeptical of psychology, a lot of psychology.

Phil: Oh, projection is a psychological concept.

Tom: Correct, and I believe it is of great use, but it is useful to be aware of the prevalence of projection in political thought and so forth, not just so that you can notice it, but so that you can apply it to yourself.

Tom: And I do tend to find that psychology often doesn't do that.

Tom: And so when I mentioned that Aristotle is a complete moron, I would like to say I'm very aware that this could indeed be me projecting and I'm the complete moron.

Tom: But like Aristotle, I would like to point out, I too like Aristotle, I'm the complete moron.

Tom: And the other reason, and the neglected aspect of projection is, comes from a much greater and much more interesting and in-depth psychological movement known as the thought of children.

Tom: And there is a great line full of wisdom, which is, it takes one to know one.

Tom: So while I accuse Aristotle of being a moron, I fully admit that I'm aware Aristotle is a moron because I too am a moron.

Phil: Thank you, Tom.

Tom: You're welcome.