Game Under Podcast 150

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Episode 150 - Robloxing Day
0:00:23 Intro
0:09:10 News
0:35:28 Roblox - A full analysis and review
1:23:22 Phil’s Questions for Tom from Other People’s Podcasts

Transcript:

Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Today is a milestone episode for us, which is why it has taken us so long to get it out.

Tom: We put in a lot of work for this very special episode.

Tom: So prepare yourselves for a mind-blowing experience.

Phil: Well, I had to build this tunnel, first of all, from which to record episode because I thought, you know, maybe we have some echo in here.

Phil: It just might, you know, bring some pomp and ceremony to it.

Tom: The plan was to record in person, and you were going to tunnel here from Queensland to Victoria, but you didn't quite make it, did you?

Phil: No, no, I got halfway to Adelaide.

Phil: I found a lot of vocals, so that is a positive.

Phil: Speaking of Adelaide...

Tom: So we have a better budget going forwards.

Phil: Well, for sure, definitely.

Phil: I think a soundboard is in the future, especially since I just found out that Audacity has a free one built in, which will save me about Australian dollars, which is, you know, like American dollars, I think.

Phil: Now, but how many Australian...

Phil: What is the exchange rate from the Australian dollar to the...

Phil: I'm assuming in Sri Lanka, they use rupees?

Tom: Rupees, yes.

Phil: Yes?

Phil: How many rupees can you get for one AUD?

Tom: Thousands of them, I think.

Phil: So is a burrito in Sri Lanka worth about rupees?

Tom: Perhaps a million rupees.

Phil: You'll have to report back.

Phil: If you can find a...

Phil: First of all, if you can find a burrito in Sri Lanka, because as we were recording this, you've got one leg out of the country, basically.

Tom: I do indeed.

Tom: So you're saying that as a Game Under segment, we're going to have to have an international search for burritos.

Phil: I think so.

Phil: If you can go into the hurdy-gurdy streets of Sri Lanka, what's the capital of Sri Lanka, the big city?

Tom: Colombo.

Phil: Colombo.

Phil: Yes, yes.

Phil: And how's the political unrest?

Phil: Is okay there?

Phil: Because a notable prime minister was kicked out last year, and there was videos of people swimming in his swimming pool.

Phil: Are you hoping to visit the swimming pool?

Phil: Do you have open access?

Phil: Do you have an inside line to the president's swimming pool?

Tom: I hope so.

Phil: Well, you know.

Tom: I hope it's still a tourist attraction.

Phil: Probably should have done your research, perhaps a little better.

Phil: I understand there's a castle.

Tom: I think there's still an extreme travel warning for Sri Lanka at the moment.

Phil: Are you kidding?

Tom: No.

Phil: So the state of the park...

Tom: Maybe not extreme, but I think it says exercise extreme caution or something along those lines.

Phil: Well, you should always express extreme caution when traveling to the equatorial Sri Lanka.

Phil: I understand there's a castle there that has a lot of spider monkeys that you can interact with.

Tom: I think there are spider monkeys everywhere.

Phil: Everywhere?

Tom: Not just in the castle.

Phil: Well, you'll be right at home because after years of recording this podcast with me, you have some experience with that level of intellect.

Tom: As we can tell from this introduction.

Phil: Yeah, that's it.

Phil: Okay, so you're out of the country.

Phil: Anything else you want to add to that before we go into the news?

Tom: The passport application was an interesting process because I assume with the aim of virtue signalling to the anti-migration crowd, but also in taking a large number of migrants, the process of getting an application if you are born in Australia to one, even if you've got an Australian parent who was also born in Australia, you've got to provide so much bullshit to prove that you are a citizen.

Tom: Whereas not long in the past, if I was my sister's age, I wouldn't need to do half the shit I had to do.

Tom: And the only logical reason behind it as far as I can tell is indeed virtue signalling.

Phil: Well, I mean, you know, there's the whole secure war on security or whatever it is, war on terror.

Phil: I'm sure that's when it got bad, right?

Tom: No, this was a change that came about in the late s.

Phil: Okay, well, that's okay.

Phil: So before the war on terror, because I'll tell you how I got my application, my passport.

Phil: I walked into my local rural post office.

Phil: I filled out a form.

Phil: I took a photo.

Phil: I mailed it in.

Phil: I got my passport.

Phil: I did actually have to send them a copy.

Phil: I did actually have to send my original birth certificate, which they mailed back to me.

Phil: But besides that, that was it.

Tom: But only your own birth certificate.

Phil: Yeah, of course.

Phil: Because it shows that I was born here.

Tom: I had to send not only my own birth certificate, but also my mother's birth certificate.

Phil: You're kidding me.

Tom: No.

Phil: Well, that's weird, man, especially since you've got a pretty straightforward name, you know, Towers.

Phil: But, you know, I would have thought it had been pretty straightforward, but wow.

Phil: Not these days.

Phil: So anything else to talk about with the passport application other than it taking a lot of time?

Phil: And that is a ridiculous request.

Tom: Other than that, it was rather simple.

Tom: But having had interactions with the NDIS and Centrelink, I have to say, all of the things that normal people complain about when it comes to bureaucracy are actually a welcome relief from dealing with the truly punitive parts of Australian bureaucracies.

Phil: Yeah, it's probably a walk in the cake for you.

Tom: Which is that classic Australian expression.

Tom: That's probably why you were able to so easily get your passport.

Tom: You walked into the post office and said, this is going to be a walk in the cake, isn't it, mate?

Tom: Too bloody right!

Phil: Do you know who Dukenby Mutombo is?

Phil: Well, he played for the Atlanta Hawks.

Phil: It's a famous quote for him.

Phil: He was saying that it was going to be a walk in the cake.

Tom: That's actually why you're a Jewel citizen with America.

Phil: It's a fantastic malapropism because obviously there's a walk in the park.

Phil: It's going to be like a walk in the park.

Phil: And then you've got, it's going to be a cake walk.

Phil: It is probably the most brilliant malapropism I've ever heard, other than the ones I've spat out during this last episodes.

Tom: Got any examples of your own?

Phil: No, no, I'm sure our listeners may.

Phil: Anything else?

Tom: All I can think of is just errors rather than malapropisms.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And you know what a malapropism, where the name came from that?

Tom: Where?

Phil: Well, okay, well, there was a radio serial in Britain, Britain, which is where English is created.

Phil: And one of the comedic-

Tom: Britain, where English was created.

Phil: I think you can find it on a bumper sticker.

Phil: And one of-

Tom: I think that's one of their questions on their visa application too.

Phil: This is also on their visa application, which is what's the origin of the word, it's not etymology, what's the etymology of malapropism?

Phil: And there was a radio show, a radio serial where a lady malaprop was constantly doing mixed metaphors and things of the nature.

Phil: And so that's where it actually came from, that these things became malapropisms because a character named Lady Malaprop was saying these kinds of things, like Dikembe Mutombo, which is probably what he had on his mind when he said that.

Tom: Does this actually have anything to do with a radio show?

Tom: Because apparently it's from a play.

Phil: Oh, okay, a play.

Phil: Okay, well, thank you for correcting me because now you're so smarter than me because you've got Wikipedia.

Phil: Well, this is the sort of content that listeners come here for.

Phil: I think we can catch up on some of our other trademark banner if that's okay and hit our news segment.

Phil: You've been following the news lately, Tom?

Tom: Not even slightly.

Phil: Okay, well, I've got news that isn't being played elsewhere, as is our usual situation.

Phil: First news story, Square Enix reassigns top Dragon Quest producer.

Phil: They put him in charge of mobile games.

Phil: And the credit to this story goes to Bloomberg.

Phil: The top producer of Square Enix flagship Dragon Quest is stepping down from the role following delays in developing the next installment of the popular series.

Phil: Yu Miyake, who long oversaw the role-playing franchise since has been moved to the company's head-up the division of the company that does smartphone games.

Phil: The move is part of a large-scale reorganization.

Phil: Square Enix is overhauling its game development pipeline under a new president who's vowed to reverse flagging sales of both big-budget console games and smaller mobile titles.

Phil: Yasuki Sato, who's going to replace him, is Yasuki Sato, who's best known for his hit game, Nier, Automata.

Phil: Or at least, he's the strongest candidate to take the helm.

Phil: And so, since becoming president last year, the Kiryu has streamlined game production by shutting down many unannounced projects and placing checks on producers' influence.

Phil: So, this guy has been working on Dragon Quest as the leader of the Dragon Quest franchise since which is a long time.

Phil: It's like years.

Phil: And he's basically been given that Japanese corner office to go and sit in and do nothing, which is to be in charge of their smart time.

Tom: You say to go sit there and do nothing, but wasn't their mobile game Wizards and Dragons or something like that more successful than anything they've done in years?

Phil: I don't think so.

Phil: I mean, that was years ago.

Phil: At the time, it was.

Phil: It was very popular at the time, but there's nothing bigger for Square Enix.

Phil: Well, Square Enix, obviously, Final Fantasy is their biggest thing now and has been since they joined together.

Phil: And it has been an interesting history with Enix, promulgating Dragon Quest and Square doing Final Fantasy.

Phil: Them coming together, that is like the biggest merger of all times, creatively, for JRPGs.

Phil: Yeah, so, I mean, now, I have bought...

Phil: I love the Dragon Quest series.

Phil: I've played a fair few of them, but not all.

Phil: Mostly through the DS re-imaginings of the originals.

Phil: And they're all really fun.

Phil: I think Dragon Quest Rocket Slime was in my top of the decade, definitely, for the DS.

Phil: I'm a huge fan.

Phil: This guy's been around for ..

Phil: What did I say?

Phil: years.

Phil: It's a big change.

Phil: And in Japan, when someone's been around that long, they don't fire them.

Phil: They just give them a mean job, which you would counter.

Phil: But yeah, this is a major news story that I haven't seen getting much play anywhere.

Tom: And we should also add that apparently, Yuji Naka, who was sentenced to months in jail for insider trading, tweeted that, finally, I was hoping he would be gone soon because he's the kind of person who would submit a note with a lie with evidence to a court of law.

Tom: I've never met him, but the new president might be a good person.

Phil: So he's tweeting that from jail.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Tom: He's got a suspended sentence, of course.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Phil: Oh, okay, that's right.

Phil: He just has to be a good boy.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Read that first part again.

Tom: Finally, I was hoping he would be gone soon because he's the kind of person who would submit a note with a lie with evidence to a court of law.

Phil: We don't get this sort of shade.

Phil: Oh, man, that is awesome.

Phil: That is awesome.

Phil: So maybe this guy is a bit of an a-hole.

Tom: Possibly.

Phil: Speaking of a-holes, story number two, Life is Strange Studio, Deck accused of toxic workplace culture.

Tom: Are they called Deck now?

Phil: They're called Deck

Phil: What were they used to be called?

Tom: Don't Not.

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

Phil: They were Don't Not.

Phil: Anyway, credit to this one goes to IGN's Rebecca Valentine, which I thought was a character in Resident Evil.

Phil: Early last year, while working on the next entry of Life is Strange, a few developers at Deck stumbled upon something that didn't belong in their game.

Phil: You want to guess what that is?

Phil: What wouldn't belong in Life is Strange?

Phil: A Republican.

Phil: Close.

Phil: Nazi symbols.

Phil: I'm joking.

Tom: I was right.

Phil: I'm joking.

Phil: Republican.

Tom: I'm not joking.

Phil: Developers noticed a reference to the number which I thought was like a reference to Back to the Future, and flagged the issue to their bosses, assuming it was an innocent mistake.

Phil: But in ensuing weeks, others found more problematic signs, and in-universe labels such as references to a racist meme, the number and the Hegel Rune.

Phil: Now, I don't know what the number means.

Phil: Do you?

Tom: I think that's the words.

Tom: We must secure the future for our white children or something like that.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Maybe you should plead the fifth before you admit to knowing what these things are.

Phil: Actually, you know, we should know what these things are.

Phil: And the Hegel Rune.

Phil: I know what that is.

Tom: I think that's the dialectical rune of the philosopher Hegel.

Phil: Okay, I don't know what that is.

Phil: As I know what Hegel is from the Monty Python song, something as sloshed as Hegel, I believe.

Tom: Was he in the philosopher's football match?

Phil: Oh, yeah, he was.

Phil: That's my extent of Hegel, my knowledge of Hegel.

Phil: As the number of possible hate symbols mounted, staff grew increasingly concerned that someone was putting these items in the game deliberately, as a dog whistled to white supremacists.

Phil: Nazi imagery would be inappropriate in most games, but in a life of strange title, the dissonance was especially frightening.

Phil: Somehow, this has turned from a reportage to editorial.

Phil: Since its inception, the series has been lauded for thoughtful portrayals of marginalized individuals.

Phil: As the weeks went by, management remained silent, and staff ungraced grew.

Phil: This wasn't the first time executives had failed to act when marginalized individuals' studio fell unsafe.

Phil: According to over a dozen current and former employees, so she took to sources, most of whom spoke to me on a condition of anonymity, Deck 's management has long led a toxic work culture fester at the studio.

Phil: They say that the C-suite, the executives, have protected multiple abusive leaders, encouraged crunch, and allowed bullying of individuals advocating for more authentic representation in Life is Strange.

Phil: So, story or non-story?

Phil: I think the facts are there.

Phil: I mean, the references are obviously in the game and can be found, though I was disappointed in IGN that they didn't go through the game and do screenshots to back up the evidence.

Tom: I think we need the evidence to be able to comment properly on it.

Phil: Yeah, I think we do.

Phil: And then the second part is, okay, well, in terms of impugning management, basically the only thing they've said is, as weeks went by, management remained silent and staff unrest grew.

Phil: So, okay, so if someone goes to management and goes, hey, look, you know, all this stuff was in this game.

Phil: And you go, okay, well, we'll check it out.

Phil: I guess, you know, my response would be as management, okay, well, can you guys provide evidence?

Phil: And if they do obviously provide the evidence, or maybe they did, I go, okay, can we patch this out?

Phil: You know, like, can we patch this out?

Phil: Can we put some people on this to patch this out?

Phil: And then go from there.

Phil: Oh, and also find out who, do they still work for us?

Phil: You know, and so if, but if they say management remains silent, then I guess I wouldn't expect them to do, to say anything after their initial response, because for all we know, management did say that.

Phil: Hey, patch it out, and we'll look into it, and see who is responsible for this.

Phil: But I don't know.

Phil: I'm not ready to really start burning people, because basically, then the rest of the story goes, oh, well, they made us do crime.

Phil: They bullied people who were advocating internally for more authentic representation.

Phil: I mean, Life is Strange is pretty good for representation, so far as I can see.

Phil: Comments?

Tom: I want to know what the references were.

Tom: Are they hidden in the game, as in they're not visible to players?

Tom: They were only visible to people developing the game?

Tom: Or were they part of the narrative of the game?

Tom: Or were they visible to players, but as Easter eggs or something you had to come across randomly?

Phil: OK, that's a good point.

Phil: Developers noticed a reference to number

Phil: So if someone in the code was just putting everywhere, that's not publicly facing.

Phil: But in Sewing Week, others found in-universe labels.

Phil: So I'm thinking if you see a book or an album in the background, or there's a shop scene in the shop, so I'm thinking that in-universe labels would have to be represented inside the game and public facing.

Tom: That's what it sounds like.

Phil: And those included references to a racist meme, the number

Phil: Well, okay, forget that.

Phil: I mean, I get, but I don't.

Phil: Unless it's represented in a very specific way.

Phil: I like if there's an album in the background that says, you know, Sally, such and such as greatest hits, you know, that's and the and the Hegel rune and I hadn't looked into what the Hegel rune is.

Phil: Maybe I don't know how you that is as another symbol.

Phil: You know, the Swastika Hinduism, that sort of stuff, too.

Phil: So yeah, so you're saying you don't have to draw comment.

Tom: And I think in terms of it's in universe depiction, you need the context to see why it's there, whether it makes sense.

Tom: Is it there as some sort of Nazi virtue signalling, or is it there for a narrative reason?

Tom: You definitely need the context for that.

Tom: I think if developers are randomly finding it hidden here and there, maybe it is there to target certain employees at the company.

Tom: That sounds like potentially more questionable, but without further context on the in-universe thing, that could make perfect sense as to why it's there.

Phil: Yeah, and the other thing is, I don't know if you remember, I don't know if it was before the storm or in the original, there was that dude that lived in a caravan near a factory that the two of them went to visit, who would have fit a white supremacy archetype.

Phil: If these things were present in his caravan, well, that's within context and not offensive.

Phil: But I think that any person who's going to raise this would have recognized that that would have been appropriate.

Tom: Maybe, maybe not.

Phil: Yeah, well, you're saying maybe, maybe not, that they would have the judgment to go, that shouldn't be there?

Tom: They may be of the opinion that even if it is potentially justified, it should still not be there.

Phil: You think there's people?

Phil: I'm an idiot.

Phil: I was going to say, do you think there's people like that and you're going to laugh?

Phil: So I'm just thinking, you know, life is strange before the storm.

Phil: Maybe they should have called it before the storm front.

Tom: Life is strange before the storm.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Moving on to story number three.

Phil: This is another big one.

Phil: Writer and developer of Enslaved, writer and director of Enslaved, Devil May Cry and Hellblade leaves Ninja Theory.

Phil: And we credit the six axis with this one.

Phil: Ninja Theory, co-founder and chief creative director Tameem Antionades, has left the company.

Phil: He served as writer and director on Everything from Heavenly Sword.

Phil: You remember playing that?

Tom: I never got around to it.

Phil: Oh, that's a good one.

Phil: Enslaved, Odyssey to the West, Devil May Cry, or DMC Devil May Cry, and their acclaimed hit Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice.

Tom: I'm sorry if I did play, and I was a big fan of that.

Phil: Hellblade is...

Tom: I think that features one of our hottest takes in our big show about it, in which I said it was a superior version of The Matrix.

Phil: Wow, absolutely.

Phil: I agree with that.

Phil: And Enslaved, obviously, is a superior version of Uncharted.

Tom: No, I was saying Enslaved was a superior version of The Matrix.

Phil: How so?

Tom: That's the Journey to the West one, right?

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Tom: Thematically, they have very similar, um, themes.

Phil: Um, I have not watched The Matrix.

Phil: I have free access.

Tom: You need to now watch The Matrix...

Tom: All right...

Tom: .

Tom: and replay Enslaved.

Phil: I will...

Phil: Okay...

Tom: .

Tom: and come back.

Phil: Bloody hell.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Well, I can't...

Tom: I mean...

Phil: I'm not sure about replaying Enslaved at this day and date, but, um, anyway, Antonates was conspicuously absent.

Phil: Now, what's interesting about his departure from the studio is how it was discovered, right?

Phil: I'm about to go into that.

Phil: Antonates was conspicuously absent when outlets like Polygon were invited to the Cambridge studio.

Phil: Um, they said, well, hey, where's Dude?

Phil: Where's the writing director?

Phil: Where's Dude, right?

Phil: It's

Phil: Where is he?

Phil: They asked Microsoft, good reporting, Polygon.

Phil: Microsoft subsequently confirmed that he's left the studio.

Phil: And Polygon noted that the game is being made by...

Phil: So who has replaced him?

Phil: The game is being made by the environmental art director, the visual effects director, and the audio director.

Phil: Okay, so that's a bit suspicious.

Phil: It's not clear why he left, but Antionades featured prominently in the behind-the-scenes look at something called Project Mara.

Phil: His last appearance was in a second and most recent development diary for Project Mara, which was in January

Phil: Project Mara hasn't been heard of since that video, and we can speculate that Antionades' departure is somehow related to Project Mara.

Phil: So, I don't know, but this is a big deal.

Phil: He was the director and writer of all of their biggest games.

Phil: And the last public thing he made was in January

Phil: Obviously, no one's going to notice, right?

Phil: Because Ninja Theory is not Naughty Dog.

Phil: But it's gone now three years since he's left the company, and there was never a public announcement.

Phil: Now, Microsoft didn't own them in but there was never a public announcement.

Phil: There was never a, hey, you know, anti-Naughty.

Phil: There was never anti-Naughty coming out and saying, hey, I'm starting my new thing, and this is what I'm doing.

Phil: And he obviously missed out on the big buyout from Microsoft.

Phil: What do you speculate happened to him?

Tom: It's a bit weird, isn't it?

Tom: I think maybe the only reason we haven't heard about it is the main PR attraction wasn't the director of most of their famous games, but Andy Serkis.

Tom: So maybe they just didn't think anyone had heard of it.

Phil: Look, he has a very distinctive.

Phil: Name.

Phil: I don't know the origin of the first name Tameem.

Phil: I don't know what Tameem sounds like to you, but it sounds sort of Indian or African or something.

Phil: And Antionades, of course, is Greek.

Phil: Yeah, Mediterranean Greek.

Phil: So his name has struck out to me as I followed.

Phil: I am a huge fan of the works of Ninja Theory since the Xbox era.

Phil: And I've always seen him in very intelligent interviews pushing and promoting Ninja Theory's games and content.

Phil: And so I've always noticed that name, because it's such an interesting name.

Phil: I'm thinking he got Me Too'd, January

Phil: I think something's gone there.

Phil: I think he got Me Too'd out.

Tom: Do you think they do that in science?

Phil: I do.

Phil: A small company like that, especially if they were seeking to be purchased by a larger studio, he worked on the first Hellblade, which was a fantastic thing.

Phil: So the only reason why someone would leave a company of his note and there not be some sort of proclamation is because he's leaving under a cloud.

Tom: So they don't want the publicity of Me Too?

Phil: I don't think so.

Phil: I don't think so.

Phil: But anyway, what does that mean to the studio?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: Did you ever get a chance to play Hellblade?

Tom: No.

Tom: I think the only game of theirs I've played is, in fact, Enslaved.

Phil: Oh, you played DMC, didn't you?

Phil: No.

Phil: Oh, that one's the best one.

Phil: That's the best one.

Tom: From you.

Phil: And then Hellblade.

Phil: Yeah, thank you.

Phil: And I'm sure we can go back and find out what's...

Phil: You guys go to gameunder.net, search that, and you'll find my review of DMC out.

Phil: And then Hellblade is obviously a play on Heavenly Sword.

Phil: It was the spiritual sequel to Heavenly Sword, which I really liked.

Phil: So I'm going to have to...

Phil: I'm just going to write down now to play Hellblade in anticipation of the new one.

Phil: Okay, anything else on that?

Phil: We'll go on to story number four in our final story.

Phil: And that is Roblox Studio Head Denies Child Exploitation.

Phil: Have you heard this story?

Tom: No, I haven't.

Phil: See, now, am I bringing the news this week, or am I bringing the news?

Phil: Leader of Dragon Quest gets fired.

Phil: Life is strange.

Phil: Nazi's writer of Hill is enslaved.

Phil: I'm putting forward that he's been me too.

Tom: He's been me too.

Phil: No one else is reporting that.

Tom: We know for a fact he was me too.

Phil: And, you know, it's not his fault he's been me.

Phil: And by the way, I don't know if you've seen our show notes, the effort that goes into these news stories is more than what goes into the news stories on GameSpot or IGN these days.

Tom: It's even more effort than what goes into them on air as well.

Phil: Shut up.

Phil: OK, so story number four, Roblox Studio Head denies child exploitation.

Phil: Quote, like, you can...

Phil: Actually, I've got an accent for this guy.

Phil: Like, you can say, OK, we're exploiting child labour, right?

Phil: Now, credit to Eurogamer for this one.

Phil: In an interview with Roblox Studio Head Stefano Carazzo at GDC, the reporter asked about the reputation Roblox has gained and the notion that it was exploitative of young directors, since it takes a cut of the work sometimes produced by children.

Phil: Here's a quote.

Phil: You can say this for a lot of things, right?

Phil: Like, you can say, OK, we are exploiting child labour, right?

Phil: Or you can say, we are offering people anywhere in the world the capability to get a job, even like an income.

Phil: So, I can be years old in Indonesia, living in a slum, and now with just a laptop, I can create something and make some money.

Phil: He went on to note that they have hired some teenagers, and that there had been millions of players on the platform.

Phil: For them, you know, hearing from their experience, they didn't feel like they were exploited.

Phil: So, I focus more on the amount of money that we distribute every year to creatives, which is now getting close to like a billion dollars, which is phenomenal.

Phil: So, after that interview was published, Roblox officially responded, stating that the majority of games are created by developers who are aged or older.

Phil: The average age for their top earning or engaging developer is around years old.

Phil: I will note that they said the majority are created by developers who are aged and we all know, speaking English, that majority means more than %.

Tom: What are your thoughts?

Phil: Yeah, what are your thoughts?

Tom: And we should also add that the top earners are on average years old.

Phil: Right.

Tom: So, if we delve into these numbers, we can conclude that quite possibly % of people producing Roblox content are the lowest earners and all children.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: What do you think of this quote?

Phil: Like, you can say, okay, we are exploiting, you know, child labour, right?

Tom: Ha!

Tom: That's actually what he's saying.

Phil: No, that is what he said.

Phil: Like, you can say, okay, we're exploiting, you know, child labour, right?

Phil: Or you can say, we're offering people anywhere in the world the capability to get a job and even an income.

Tom: This is the classic libertarian sweatshop argument.

Phil: So I can be years old in Indonesia, living in a slum, and now with a laptop, I can create something for me and make money.

Phil: And then he says, I focus more on the amount of money we distribute every year.

Phil: I focus more.

Phil: So he's explicitly saying, more than the age of the people that create this shit, I focus more on the amount of money that we distribute every year, which is getting close to like a billion dollars.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, is this...

Phil: Where is this story gone?

Phil: Like this is...

Phil: And you go to every other podcast this week, and, oh, it's a slow news week.

Phil: There's nothing to talk about here.

Phil: This is gold.

Phil: This is probably the best story.

Phil: I'm going to memorialize this story at gameunder.net so that we can come back to it later, because this is, I think, one of the funniest stories we've come across in a long time.

Phil: You agree with me that they probably are exporting kids, right?

Tom: Without any question.

Tom: I mean, you look at the game, I think it's very clear that probably the vast majority of Roblox content is clearly produced by children.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: That's at least the impression I got.

Tom: Oh, yeah.

Phil: That's the impression I got.

Tom: I think the funniest thing about this story is the quote is just so brilliant, because in all likelihood, the majority of content being produced by the game is probably not Indonesians in a slum with a laptop on which they can play Roblox and produce Roblox content.

Phil: I don't know, man.

Phil: I've played some of the games.

Tom: But probably more likely either non-slum living Indonesians or Europeans and Americans producing Roblox content, who were also probably children.

Tom: So I just love that he invents this potentially imaginary story.

Tom: At least the narrative is imaginary, in which he is saving -year-olds in Indonesia from slums who have somehow got their hands on a laptop and thought, what am I going to do with this laptop?

Tom: I'm going to produce Roblox content and get out of the Indonesian ghetto by doing this.

Phil: I think I played that game.

Phil: It was Prove Mom Wrong by being a developer for Roblox.

Phil: Okay, well, with that, I think this segues perfectly, because as people have been playing video games for a long time, we've often sort of not even reported on Roblox, but as we go into what we've been playing, you and I both delved into Roblox recently.

Tom: I think you're the only adult who I've met who has suggested that I play Roblox.

Tom: But I've met quite a few children who have, which is again, I think, lending more credence to the fact that Roblox is exploiting children.

Phil: I'm not surprised that I'm the first adult that's played it.

Phil: In my defense, but when I suggested you play, I had not played it myself.

Phil: So it's not like it was a recommendation to point out to our listeners.

Phil: Now, for a lot of our...

Phil: I'll just put the...

Phil: Let's just set the groundwork here for what Roblox is, because I think a lot of our more seasoned video gamers probably haven't given Roblox a day.

Phil: Believe it or not, Roblox has been around since

Phil: It's developed by Roblox, it's published by Roblox.

Phil: It's an online game platform.

Phil: It's the first thing to know about it.

Phil: So if you've ever walked by a computer where a kid's playing, quote, Roblox, and you say that looks like a stupid game, exactly what I did, recognize that that's just one of millions of games available on a platform.

Phil: So imagine like YouTube, but instead of every video being a video, it's a stupid game.

Phil: So it comes with a free dev kit that was created by a guy called Dave Bazooki and Eric Castle in and relies on a programming language, Lua, L-U-A.

Phil: I was not familiar, I've never heard of programming languages, I've never heard of Lua.

Phil: And it started in growth rapidly in the second half of s, which I remember because at that point kids were either playing Fortnite or Roblox.

Phil: And apparently COVID-really pushed that forward.

Phil: It's gotten generally positive critical critiques, but it has faced criticism for lack of moderation, microtransaction, as we've just discussed, exploitative practice towards children.

Phil: So it is important to know that Roblox is a platform.

Phil: It is free.

Phil: You can go on your web browser and download it now and start playing games immediately.

Phil: I would recommend that you do, because like itch.io, it is a font of tremendous creativity.

Phil: My first impression of it was, this is so easy, you can just go in and play these games.

Phil: And a lot of them were quite original, but like for every game that had any sort of success, there's obviously like of them trying to confuse you to play a very similar type of game with a similar type name.

Phil: The other thing that shocked me was the amount of IP theft, the intellectual property theft.

Phil: And I don't know how they're getting away with it.

Phil: And I just don't know how they're getting away with it, because this is like one of the most...

Phil: This is one of the most biggest games in the world, making the most money in the world.

Phil: If Take Two started putting in, you know, like Simpsons into GTA without paying royalties and licensing fees, like they'd be shut down immediately, and they wouldn't even do it because their lawyers would tell them, you can't do this.

Phil: So to me, that is one of the biggest enigmas.

Phil: Do you have anything to add to that?

Phil: Like, what was your first impression when you went in?

Tom: Before we move on to impressions, I just want to point out this is a show of revelations.

Tom: First, we had the whole Ninja Theory Me Too incident, then the child exploitation occurring at Roblox, and now you've just told me that Roblox was originally released in

Phil: Yeah, they developed it in and released it in

Phil: Before that, they'd done basically like a few education games, and I think that the intent for Roblox was that this was going to be a way that kids could learn programming, which is.

Phil: I mean, and kids do use it for programming.

Phil: Minecraft is used more legitimately.

Phil: I don't think Roblox is used in schools to teach programming.

Phil: But yeah, you didn't know that.

Tom: So when did it blow up?

Tom: Because I was suddenly not hearing about Roblox in

Phil: No, no, it's the late half of the s.

Phil: So through is when it hit, and then COVID poured jet fuel on it.

Phil: And yeah, that's when you can go and buy Roblox, you know, gift cards in grocery stores and things like that.

Tom: I think that's just fascinating that it was lurking there for more than a decade before it blew up.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: And then by then the internet's quite mature.

Phil: I mean, was when they were developing it.

Phil: The internet was about nine years old at that point.

Phil: When I say the internet, I mean, you know, accessible in most people's homes in

Phil: So yeah, it's over years.

Phil: Yes, it's been sitting around there, making money probably off of some grants and other things from educators.

Tom: So without COVID, Roblox may never have blown up.

Phil: No, I think it was already, I mean, it was already in grocery stores, you could buy Robux before COVID.

Phil: It's just COVID's accelerated.

Phil: Because I certainly remember that one.

Phil: What was the first battle royale game that was big before Fortnite?

Tom: Player Unknowns, Battlegrounds?

Phil: Yeah, yeah, Battlegrounds, yeah.

Phil: There was a summer when, or whenever it was, when I was going into people's houses, kids playing games.

Phil: And I was like, are you playing Battlegrounds or Player Unknown?

Phil: And some of them were, but some of them had moved on to Fortnite.

Phil: But the younger kids were playing Roblox, like the -year-olds at that time were playing Roblox.

Phil: And that was certainly pre-COVID by a few years.

Phil: So, and I remember looking at those games going, you kids don't know what you're doing.

Phil: But you know what?

Phil: Here's what it is.

Phil: It's free.

Phil: It's social.

Phil: And it's got that school school ground buzz, you know.

Phil: So every day you get to go to school and say, oh, I found this on Roblox and it gives you credibility.

Phil: Kind of like this podcast does.

Phil: You get to go and say, you know, hey, I found this, go play it, you know.

Phil: And then they get to interact with their friends on it as well.

Phil: So I can totally see why it is the phenomenon that it is.

Phil: Especially since as a part of our research, you know, I was playing something and my daughter goes, oh, what are you doing?

Phil: I said, oh, can I play that?

Phil: I'm like, yeah, sure, you can do that.

Phil: And couldn't drag her away from the computer minutes later, and she's not, you know, old or anything.

Phil: And then the next day when we came home, it was like, oh, I, well, what do you want to do?

Phil: It's like, oh, can you play, can you put roadblocks on?

Phil: You know, I want to play that game again, you know.

Phil: So it's got something in it.

Phil: And I think it's going to have a, it's going to get a, I think it's going to meet a regulator at some point down the line.

Phil: You know, some senator is going to have a who spends bucks on roadblocks or something, or they're going to see something because of the poor moderation, you know, that they shouldn't be seeing in a game.

Phil: Or a studio head is going to say something to a senator like, hey, my stuff's getting ripped off in this game.

Phil: What are you guys doing about it?

Phil: I do think that that's coming when there's less pressing things for American leadership to be focused on down the pike.

Phil: I mean, once they've banned TikTok, then they can go on to do important things like straightening out roadblocks' IP threat.

Tom: Well, I hope they don't straighten out roadblocks' IP threat because I think the thing that stood out to me was comparing to something like Little Big Planet, where the tone of the games is a bit more serious and probably generally made by a slightly older demographic.

Tom: The most enjoyable thing about roadblocks was the unbounded creative freedom in terms of references and humor that was allowed everywhere.

Tom: So, I think the highlight of it was two games for me.

Tom: One was Razor Peter, which in terms of gameplay wasn't particularly engaging or interesting.

Phil: Yeah, I played that also.

Phil: And I would agree.

Phil: I think the expression is Joyeux Vivre.

Phil: And that is what this game is, which is a French phrase used in English to express cheerful enjoyment of life, exultation.

Phil: I think Roblox is an exultation spirit.

Phil: There's no question about it.

Phil: It has that same thing that...

Phil: I get the same feeling when you're playing, when you're on the storefront, that this is something where someone is just enjoying what they're making and doing and putting it out there into the world.

Tom: Absolutely.

Tom: You find that feeling in the best little big planet levels.

Tom: And I think for me, the best little big planet levels were always the ridiculous ones that were coming up with very creative, absurd ideas.

Tom: Because those are the sorts of things that you don't get to see in the main little big planet levels.

Tom: There weren't really any, in my experience anyway, and I had, VEDA recommended many, many more serious levels on the VG press.

Tom: And for me, none of them were really comparable in terms of quality compared to the best levels of the single player campaign.

Tom: And that isn't necessarily because the people making the levels were any less creative than the people developing little big planet, but obviously the people developing little big planet have massive advantages in terms of what they're able to do, in terms of level design.

Tom: But they're creatively much more limited than people making little big planet levels.

Tom: So the best ones were always the ones that came up with totally ridiculous ideas where you just felt the glee and joy of the person making the levels as they realized this ridiculous idea that no doubt the developers at little big planet came up with too, but would certainly have been cut from the game.

Tom: And basically that's the majority of the games on Roblox.

Tom: That being said, there are obviously so many games that are just copying other games, that are copying other games, that are copying other games.

Tom: But outside of just the copies of copies of copies, which are generally copying ridiculous ideas in the first place, that's the main theme, which I think makes what would otherwise be not a particularly enjoyable experience, a very enjoyable experience.

Tom: And if you were to be having the IP theft policed in a way that you would elsewhere, you would lose all the fun of it.

Tom: This is like the best parts of something like fanfiction.net.

Phil: Yeah, but this is, this is, it's almost like this is, the best parts of the internet are always like, where there is almost complete freedom.

Phil: And maybe their creative use kind of clause here or something, a creative reinterpretation.

Phil: But like take a game, for example, that we both played, Razor Peter, which has content ripped out of it directly from a TV show called The Family Guy, I believe.

Tom: I believe it's just Family Guy, no V.

Phil: Family Guy, and completely incomprehensible game, but there was madness going on constantly.

Phil: There's like hundreds of people running around.

Phil: I mean, I immediately got what I was supposed to be doing and started doing it, but I never really understood what I was doing or if I was achieving anything.

Phil: But what were your notes on Razor Peter?

Tom: I think it definitely falls under parody protection.

Tom: The issue is that even though it is, in my opinion, absolutely fair use, if this was produced in the context of a Grand Theft Auto or whatever else, they would be sued anyway, even if it is fair use and have to deal with that.

Tom: So even if it was fair use, they would be advised not to include it just because it opens them up to unfair litigation.

Phil: I'd say that though with the parody, like, yeah, it's okay.

Phil: Parody is okay.

Phil: But if you're directly using the assets that were created by an artist or studio in your game, that's where you cross the line because you're taking someone else's physical assets.

Phil: Right?

Phil: So, like, if you're redrawing Peter from Family Guy and all of the other cast members, you're redrawing them.

Phil: You're doing it, and maybe you're doing something a little bit different just to show that you're doing a parody of them, then I think you'd have an argument.

Phil: But if you're taking, like, screenshots directly out of video and putting them in the game, that's where you'd potentially fall into peril.

Tom: I still wouldn't say so because then you wouldn't be able to do things like collages.

Tom: Well, I think as long as you're recontextualizing it in some way, which I think you'd be hard pressed to say that that Razor Peter isn't in any way a mere one-to-one copying of Family Guy, even if it reuses assets.

Phil: Yeah, well, this came up in front of the Supreme Court of the US like this year, or maybe last year, the estate of Andy Warhol, of all people, was suing someone for basically taking the foreprint of Maryland, doing something, right?

Phil: This is the dude that took the Campbell soup can and the Kellogg's cornflakes box and reproduced them identically.

Phil: I hope he's laughing from his grave at the idiocy of his estate.

Phil: But this isn't an open question still.

Phil: But this is a risk that these guys are able to take because they're -year-olds in Indonesia.

Phil: Come sue me, right?

Phil: But I think the deep pockets is going to be going after Roblox, because you can say, well, you're providing a platform.

Phil: Now, then they go under that word called Internet rule.

Phil: Oh, no, I'm just the host.

Phil: I'm not responsible.

Tom: The safe harbor thing.

Phil: The safe harbor thing.

Phil: Yeah, I'm just replacing a repository for this.

Phil: But then I go, well, yeah, but you're also making money off it, and we want to cut.

Phil: But Facebook, basically, let's talk about this.

Phil: Facebook here in Australia takes Australian news articles and editorials and republishes them on their site.

Phil: And as of last month, they were paying royalties or licensing fees.

Phil: And as of last month, they basically said, no, we're not going to pay you guys anymore.

Phil: We're just going to take your content and put up an ad.

Phil: And we're going to put ads again, as opposed to directing traffic to your site where you can generate your own by putting ads against your own content.

Phil: So if Facebook's getting away with it, let's put this to bed.

Phil: Roblox can do it.

Tom: I think that's all.

Tom: I think what Facebook is doing is also significantly more egregious.

Tom: Because there is no re-contextualizing of anything.

Phil: No, just we're taking a story and putting it on our website and putting ads next.

Phil: Thank you.

Tom: I believe the correct term for that is just very simply plagiarism.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: I'll go for that.

Phil: So what were your thoughts on?

Phil: Let's get into our impressions now of individual games that we played.

Phil: We'll take turns.

Phil: Some of these we both played.

Phil: So if you just want to talk about Razor Peter, which we both played, and then I'll talk about some of the ones that I only played.

Tom: I don't think there's much more to add to Razor Peter unless you had anything else on it.

Phil: What was the point of it?

Tom: I don't think it had a point.

Phil: You had...

Phil: It's a third-person platformer where you had to walk around and discover things and interact with things while other people are doing the same and had characters from American Dad.

Phil: Not American Dad.

Tom: Family Guy.

Phil: Family Guy, right?

Phil: And somehow it's addictive.

Phil: I started and I'm like, this is stupid.

Phil: I have no connection to the content or the source material, but I ended up playing it for like minutes because I couldn't stop myself.

Tom: I think the game player was he had to click on the titular Peter, so that he dropped coins, then cross the street without being run over to visit the convenience store, buy food, cross the road again without being run over, feed Peter, get more money from him, and so on and so forth.

Tom: That was the game play loop.

Phil: It was a resource battle.

Phil: And like there's a finite amount of resource in the universe.

Phil: So while you're playing this, hundreds of other people who completely cleaned out this liquor store and greenhouse of food and all the rest of it, it was just absolute chaos, beautiful, beautiful chaos.

Phil: And I haven't seen it in any other sort of video game.

Phil: I started with my toe in the water with a game called Hide and Seek Extreme, where online players hide in a variety of settings from a house to a park.

Phil: You are mini, you're about the size of a mouse in a full-size world.

Phil: And there was obviously lots of IP theft in game art assets.

Phil: And I don't know how prevalent this is, it's probably very prevalent, but right from the very beginning, there was a hard sell on buying assets from the shop, because you don't want to just go in there looking like a killer or like a basic person.

Phil: The game had people per game, which I thought was underpopulated at the time, but considering that these are independent games, it was actually a pretty good population, but it was hard to tell if they were real people or bots.

Phil: So the game is basically hide and seek.

Phil: You've got a limited amount of time to hide, then you do nothing, you just sit and wait to be found, but you can move.

Phil: There was no music, just very basic character chirping.

Phil: And in the first round, I was three, not found, which gave me ten credits to spend in their shop.

Phil: And either it's probably by design.

Phil: You know, I'm thinking about this in commercial video gaming, where I'm like, oh yeah, well they did that.

Phil: They let me quote wins, so I get some credits, so I can go spend it in their shop.

Phil: Maybe it's not.

Phil: Maybe it's not that complicated or developed.

Phil: And in the second round, which seemed pretty contrived as well, because in the first set, you're hiding, and the second set, you're it.

Phil: And in traditional gaming, that would be, the first round would be the tutorial of what this game is.

Phil: And then, yeah, in the second round, I waited and then went and found them.

Tom: Did you find all of them?

Phil: I did.

Phil: So, but again, I felt pretty good about it.

Phil: Pretty bare bones game.

Phil: I'm going to give it a score.

Phil: Six out of ten.

Phil: Hide-and-streak extreme.

Phil: Worth playing?

Tom: I think this was in traditional gameplay terms, one of the highlights for me.

Tom: When I played it, I played, I think, three rounds.

Tom: And in all three rounds, I was hiding.

Tom: I wasn't seeking.

Phil: You played this game, too?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Oh, wow.

Phil: So what did you think of it?

Tom: Well, like I said, I think in traditional gameplay terms, it was one of the best.

Tom: Just because it takes a simple concept, doesn't do anything special or flashy with it, but executes well.

Tom: And I felt like it probably was people playing it, rather than the bots, just because you could very easily take advantage of them.

Tom: My strategy in all three rounds was to not hide in places that seemed like good hiding place.

Tom: And I was very successful.

Tom: In no rounds was the seeker able to find everyone, so they may not have been particularly skilled seekers, but they did come close to finding all of the players in two of the three rounds, whereas at no point did they ever come anywhere near me.

Tom: So it rewarded thinking outside of the box.

Phil: I think you could take this and you could sell it on the Switch or whatever.

Phil: I think at least you could put this, add it as a free mode in first person multiplayer game, which, you know, maybe this is already deathmatch, I don't know.

Phil: But you've got to tag people.

Tom: If not for the Switch screen, it would also be a perfect Mario Party minigame.

Phil: The next game I played was Natural Disaster Survival, which is an example of hit and miss with Roblox, because you just can't advance without paying Robux.

Phil: Basically, it was a highly produced, highly polished game.

Phil: There's a platform.

Phil: If you can sort of think of Monkey Ball type game, ominous platform.

Phil: Everyone, when people get killed, they come back to the platform.

Phil: So you see lots of activity.

Phil: But I couldn't drop into the world, apparently a Fortnite type world, without paying Robux, which I was not prepared to do.

Phil: So I give this game a out of

Phil: Oh, you're going to give Haydn's Dream a score?

Tom: Well, I've got the die.

Tom: We also didn't give Razor Peter a score, I think.

Phil: Well, okay.

Phil: Well, let's give Razor Peter a score first.

Phil: Get the die of destiny out, please.

Tom: Here it is.

Phil: And give it a good old roll.

Tom: Unfortunately...

Phil: Unfortunately, it's...

Tom: Actually, no, I gotta roll again.

Phil: I landed on the carpet.

Tom: I give Razor Peter a out of

Phil: Okay, I give it a out of

Phil: And...

Tom: I gave Hide and Seek Extreme a out of

Phil: Yep.

Tom: I give it a out of

Phil: Oh, that's a...

Tom: So we're getting some low Roblox scores at the moment, unfortunately.

Phil: Did you play Natural Disaster Survival?

Tom: No, I didn't.

Phil: Okay, so it...

Tom: Sounds like I didn't miss out on much.

Phil: out of

Phil: Why don't we talk about a game we both...

Phil: Well, no, let's lead up to that, because that was probably the one I liked the most.

Phil: The next game I played was something called Emergency Response Liberty County.

Phil: Did you play this one?

Tom: I did.

Phil: Oh, you did?

Phil: Okay, well this is obviously a thinly veiled reference to GTA Liberty City type stuff.

Phil: And it was basically better graphics than GTA

Phil: It's a take on, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Grand Theft Auto V's online LARP.

Tom: I am, but I never played it.

Tom: I could never get it to work.

Phil: Well, the LARPing thing requires you to play it on a PC and download a lot of plugins.

Phil: So LARPing, for people who don't know, is live action playing.

Phil: And so basically in the online, there's a community of people that go on and some pretend to be cops and some pretend to be normal citizens.

Phil: If the cops catch you...

Tom: This would not be LARPing because it's not live action.

Phil: No, no, but it's a take on it.

Phil: Yes, yes.

Phil: And so basically in the GTA V online LARP, people get, if they get legitimately caught by the cops, then they pull over, then they engage in a conversation between the cop and...

Phil: And then I presume they get shot.

Phil: No, no, well, it depends on the shade of skin color.

Phil: So I found this game to be surprising.

Phil: Here comes the adjectives.

Phil: Surprisingly complex, visually pleasant, but hard to grok for a newcomer, which I think is kind of the point of Roblox.

Phil: Basically, they drop you into a world and you basically steal a car, get in the car, drive around, do bad things.

Phil: The cops can come and pull you over, right?

Phil: And catch you.

Phil: So it's cops and robbers, which is a easy to grab concept.

Phil: Again, like hide and seek, something we all played as kids.

Phil: Cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, something we all played as kids.

Phil: I actually played as Australian soldiers versus the Viet Cong when I, you know, I updated when.

Phil: But something easy to concept, but yeah, generally like pretty good, I thought.

Phil: I had a lot of fun with it.

Phil: I got into-

Tom: I was unable to work out how to buy a weapon.

Phil: Well, I didn't worry about that.

Phil: See, I got into a car with some guy, and he already had a car and a weapon and all the rest of it.

Phil: So I was basically like a passenger.

Phil: But I was able to shoot because he had a gun in the car.

Phil: So it's all about connections, I guess.

Phil: But it was-

Phil: And I couldn't understand it at first.

Phil: I'm like, how-

Phil: Where did all this come from?

Phil: But it was because there was a more experienced player there that just needed someone to ride shotgun.

Phil: So your mileage obviously varies depending on when you're playing and who you can find.

Phil: And I just might be more willing to get into cars with strangers.

Tom: I don't think-

Tom: Can you get in-

Tom: No, yeah, you're right.

Tom: You could get into cars with strangers, actually.

Phil: And I didn't even realize that-

Tom: What I found in my game was people were generally not getting into the cars with the strangers they were standing on top of them.

Tom: And driving around the car park and shooting at each other.

Tom: But in the car park, no one was able to take any damage.

Tom: For me, it was another amusingly chaotic experience.

Phil: Yeah, and for me, it was just a cool thing.

Phil: And again, maybe I just had a lucky day where I got into the car with the right guy at the right time.

Phil: But this guy was a boss at this.

Tom: You never know what you'll get when you hitchhike.

Phil: No, that's it.

Phil: One can only hope.

Phil: So anyway, I give this one a out of

Phil: Emergency Response Liberty County.

Phil: Surprising production values, and it was just genuinely fun.

Phil: I loved it.

Tom: I give it a out of

Tom: We're both big fans of it, apparently.

Phil: Big fans.

Phil: Did you play Obby but on a bike?

Tom: Yes, I did.

Tom: That was the bicycle platforming game, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, imagine Excitebike

Phil: Basically, you're going in first person from my memory.

Phil: Maybe it was third person, but you're going through, like, this course on a bike.

Phil: Obby must be something else because they had Obby on a bike, skateboard, Obby on a skateboard, Obby on that.

Tom: Obby is apparently short for obstacle course.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: Okay, okay, okay.

Phil: Hey, thank you.

Phil: That's helpful.

Phil: I will start to use that.

Phil: I will say, yeah, you know, how did you find that one?

Tom: Obby.

Phil: No, that's good.

Phil: I love it.

Phil: Obby, but on a bike.

Phil: I thought this one was also very good.

Phil: Certainly commercial grade.

Phil: Nothing much more to say about it other than you've got something.

Tom: I think in terms of traditional gameplay, this was another highlight.

Phil: Yeah, definitely a good one.

Phil: I did not give this one to school.

Phil: I'd probably give it a good old solid eight because it was good, but it was also asking for money a lot and asking for upgrades a lot.

Tom: I think that's a downfall of many Roblox games.

Phil: Yeah, just let us play it.

Tom: When you're in an Indonesian slum, you need to make money somehow.

Phil: Yeah, especially when you're

Phil: But I think that if you can just give someone like two hours of good uninterrupted play, get them into it so that they want to pay you, and go like, Hey, I've been playing this for...

Phil: Did you play Roblox Frontlines?

Tom: Shouldn't I give this a score first?

Phil: If you want.

Tom: out of

Phil: Did you play Roblox Frontlines?

Tom: I believe I did.

Tom: That's the first-person shooter, right?

Phil: Yeah, military first-person shooter.

Phil: This is basically, I'm going to say Xbox level graphics first-person shooter.

Phil: Squad shooter, basically.

Phil: Now, do you remember this game?

Tom: I do, a little bit.

Tom: I think I found the shooting surprisingly satisfying in it.

Phil: I was blown away by the graphics and the movement.

Phil: Unfortunately, it was so much so that it crashed my computer.

Tom: So, your computer cannot run Roblox.

Phil: Front lines.

Tom: This is what I'm saying about this whole Indonesian slum scenario.

Tom: Your advanced Australian PC cannot run Roblox yet.

Tom: We're meant to believe that the Indonesian slum laptops are able to run it.

Phil: Yeah, they might be making Hide and Seek extreme, perhaps.

Phil: But, look, you know, if you just think that Roblox is a bunch of low-res, dumb games, the front lines was very impressive.

Phil: And I wish I could have played it more because every time I loaded it, it crashed.

Phil: But what was your experiences with it beyond that?

Tom: Front lines?

Tom: I didn't really play it too much.

Tom: The shooting was satisfying.

Tom: The movement was...

Tom: Even though it's the same engine as every other game, the movement in it felt a lot more fluent in most other games.

Tom: I'm not entirely sure why.

Tom: Maybe just simply the change in perspective to first person.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But it was a surprisingly satisfying and adequate team deathmatch experience.

Phil: Yeah, fantastic.

Phil: And this goes to speak about the range of games that are available.

Phil: Certainly, I think...

Phil: But you can't just, as a gamer, go Roblox, kids' stuff, put it on the shelf.

Phil: If you're not on itch.io, what innovation is happening there?

Phil: And if you're not in Roblox, checking these kinds of things out, you're kind of missing the point of video games.

Phil: And I know that sounds arrogant, but like, this is where it's at.

Phil: This is where things are happening.

Phil: Now, I'm not saying this is what I'm playing everywhere, but it's great to see this level of creativity, which leads us to the last game that we...

Tom: Aren't we going to give it a score?

Phil: Well, I can't because it crashed my computer, and I can't give it a score.

Tom: I think you can based on that fact.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, I give it out of

Tom: It was so good, your computer couldn't handle it.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I give it a out of

Phil: That's sad.

Phil: Let's hope better things happen for the next game that we both played and my daughter was addicted to.

Phil: Prove mom wrong, mom wrong by being a famous streamer.

Phil: Now, you know this is a good game because there is about other games trying to tell you that they're this game.

Phil: This is a game where you go into an empty warehouse with a basic computer and you start streaming.

Phil: And the first part of streaming is basically you play a connect the dots game with your mouse or controller.

Phil: And every time you do it, the fans like it and they give you a bit more credit and more money until you can hire someone else to come in and help you with your streaming.

Phil: And then they start streaming, and then you can hire another person, another person, another person, better equipment, better streaming gear.

Phil: So it's a progress.

Phil: It's a third person game, I should say, that moves to first person when you're sitting in front of a computer.

Phil: And you go from being a lone streamer with absolutely nothing to someone who can build up a massive empire of having tons of people streaming for you.

Phil: You hire people who then keep the streamers awake, tell them to keep working.

Phil: You can upgrade individual streamers.

Phil: The push to use Robux was not very strong, but it was present.

Phil: And because it was such a good game, again, after playing it for a couple of hours, I was like, well, maybe, yeah, let's upgrade this space.

Phil: Let's get a bigger space.

Phil: Let's get the biggest.

Phil: Let's get a better server.

Phil: So you're upgrading server-wise.

Phil: I certainly did not.

Phil: But I was tempted to.

Phil: And as I indicated earlier, this game where my daughter came in and told me playing the connect the dots thing, I was like, can I do that?

Phil: Yeah, go for it.

Phil: Because it'll give me more credit so I can upgrade my server.

Phil: Speaking of child exploitation.

Phil: And I came back hours later to give her some water.

Phil: And yeah, she'd achieved the goal.

Phil: So this to me was the supreme Roblox game that I played.

Phil: It has a ridiculous starting screen logo, which would be repulsive.

Phil: But I mean, again, they've got to get attention and disambiguate themselves from all the other copiers.

Phil: So what was your experience with Prove Mom Wrong by Being a Famous Dreamer?

Tom: I thought it was excellent.

Phil: As we'll call it here, PMWBBAFS.

Tom: You didn't mention that it's basically a work simulator, essentially.

Phil: You got me.

Phil: You caught me.

Phil: Yeah, I didn't realize that.

Tom: So it's no surprise that we're both big fans of it.

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

Phil: You sent me that am thing, too, the other day.

Tom: And as you said, you basically...

Tom: It begins with you just streaming by yourself and you slowly build up an empire.

Tom: Essentially, your goal is to get to...

Tom: I think maybe it's $billion, unlike something like that.

Phil: Nice.

Phil: I thought it might be $billion.

Phil: But the other thing that was cool about this, when I left it and came back to it, I was expecting to start again from scratch, but that's the thing.

Phil: Some of these games, most of them, recognize who you are and you get from where you left off.

Phil: So don't think that this is like a pachinko or a slot machine type place where you just come in and play games and leave.

Phil: You can, you know, build up your empire.

Tom: Yep, and it saves your progress, which is...

Phil: Yep...

Tom: .

Tom: important.

Tom: And while you're streaming, there are other players with their own streaming studios playing at the same time.

Phil: Yes, yes, you can go over and visit them.

Phil: They can come visit you.

Phil: And then people who don't want to actually set up their own studios but just want to come in and work or check out your shit can do so.

Tom: So again, there's a great social aspect to it.

Tom: And the way it's set up, there are three different progress things.

Tom: One is the time between when you get likes and money.

Tom: The other is how many likes you get and how much money you get.

Tom: So there's three stats that are affected by who you hire and who you get sponsored by, things like that.

Tom: So you're juggling these three different things and trying to figure out which has the highest bang for buck as you are buying more real estate or hiring more people.

Tom: So it's not extremely complex, but it's enough that it keeps you interested over the full breadth of time that it takes to get to the million likes.

Tom: And it's very satisfying as you're going along and you're getting more and more money and more and more likes faster and faster and faster.

Tom: And you do actually want to be going back to the basic mini game of connecting the dots because once you have upgraded the amount of likes and money you get, that becomes actually a valuable resource in between time where you're saving to hire more people.

Tom: So that remains an important part of the game, which gives you a more...

Tom: another layer of gameplay to deal with rather than just the hiring of people so that you're not doing the one thing the entire time you play.

Tom: The other thing that I think is appreciated, which fits the whole parody of streaming thing, is you can just leave the game open and do nothing and let the people working for you do everything until your server crashes.

Tom: And the only way to stop your server crashing is, of course, to buy Roblox.

Tom: You can, however, buy upgrades, and that will allow your server to go for longer without crashing.

Tom: But if you want, you can simply pay some actual money to prevent it from crashing at all.

Tom: But the one thing I will defend it for in its use of Roblox is most of the Roblox use is in hiring comical internet figures like Andrew Tate and Keemstar.

Tom: I think Keemstar was in it, but figures like that.

Tom: So at least I presume you're getting bang for your buck if you do spend real money, rather than just simply buying to win.

Phil: Especially if you hire Andrew Tate.

Phil: Well, so, I mean, all are great experience, right?

Tom: Absolutely, and I actually played it to completion.

Phil: Oh, wow.

Phil: Congratulations.

Phil: I did not, but it is the game that we revisit the most as a family because of, as I described before, its appeal, and it is an appealing game.

Tom: And its family values, like Andrew Tate, for example, keeps families coming back to it.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: I just wonder, like, the thing is, maybe curation, how did you find this game?

Phil: Randomly.

Tom: Yeah, I mean, just in the, I think, it was on the front page at some point.

Phil: You can probably go to Reddit and go, what's the top best Roblox games, you know, and that sort of thing as well.

Phil: So maybe curation isn't as important.

Phil: But yeah, all in all, Roblox in the positive column.

Phil: Is it my kind of gaming?

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Is it something that I'm going to use as my sole gameplay?

Phil: Absolutely not.

Phil: What's the appeal?

Phil: What do kids have?

Phil: Plenty of time.

Phil: What do kids have?

Phil: Don't have?

Phil: Plenty of money.

Phil: And this gives them the opportunity to play thousands of different types of video gaming experiences without having to ask mom and dad for money.

Phil: And it also gives them the opportunity, as we said in our news story, for them to create things.

Phil: It gives them something to talk about in the schoolyard.

Phil: It's just a fantastic educational experience, which is what the creators intended.

Phil: So for me, you know, I've gone from someone who is highly cynical about Roblox to going, you know, someone says, hey, should my kids play Roblox?

Phil: I'd be like, yeah, but, you know, keep an eye on it.

Phil: Keep an eye on what they're doing and all the rest of it.

Phil: I didn't delve or seek any sort of inappropriate content.

Phil: I don't know that there is any inappropriate content in Roblox, but it certainly wasn't easily accessible or right there in front of me.

Phil: Did you see anything like that, like something that would be inappropriate for kids?

Tom: Well, first we've got to give, sorry, not sorry, Prove Mom Wrong by Being a Famous Streamer a Score short.

Phil: You mean PMW Baffs?

Phil: Yes.

Phil: PMW Baffs.

Phil: Yeah, look, I mean, you know, I definitely have to give it a out of

Tom: I will give it a out of as well.

Phil: Wow, The Die of Destiny is indeed working correctly on this.

Tom: As far as inappropriate content is concerned, I'm disappointed in myself that I did not seek it out, but there was actually one other game that I played, which I was also impressed by, which I think was, I recall the title of it was a pet-based, pet-raising-based game.

Phil: Yeah, I remember playing that too, yeah.

Tom: And the thing that impressed me about it was just the huge amount of people playing it, and there was a RuneScape market-style square of people just spamming, selling wares, and people kept coming up to me, new player offering me very expensive, and I presume sought after pets, and I would just offer them a hot dog in response, and they would then cancel the deal.

Tom: So that was another highlight for me.

Phil: I do remember that one.

Phil: Yeah, so overall, your BroBlox, positive, negative, obviously a positive.

Tom: Definitely a positive experience.

Phil: Yeah, so kudos to Phil Fogg for recommending you give it a go.

Phil: Yes, absolutely.

Phil: This has been a part of my life for the last couple of years now, because there's a thing, I'm running a campaign, and that is people going, oh, I'm not going to try that, it's popular, so obviously it's crap.

Phil: Because I'd never ever, now you might say it's crap, you might say it's not, but whatever.

Phil: So I watched it in chronological order, rather in story order, and it was enjoyable and good.

Phil: It was a good experience.

Phil: And I went, okay, well, next, Harry Potter.

Phil: Again, never read it just because it's popular.

Phil: Went through Reddit, you know what, it wasn't bad.

Phil: It wasn't the best, but it was fun, and it was, you know, interesting, Reddit.

Phil: So yeah, you know, just be open to new experiences is my thing.

Phil: And again, just because something is popular doesn't necessarily mean that it's garbage.

Phil: With that...

Tom: We do have to give it a score, though, surely.

Phil: Oh, Roblox as a whole thing.

Phil: Oh, it's a out of

Phil: It's like itch.io.

Phil: It is a gem in the malaise of the current game development publishing world.

Phil: You know, game publishing and developing is pretty grim and gray right now, and Roblox is a shining stone.

Tom: Absolutely, and I'm going to give it a out of

Phil: Again, Tom's using the die of destiny, everyone.

Phil: This randomly generated dice roll, not a rice roll.

Tom: I couldn't disagree with you more.

Phil: I could use a rice roll.

Phil: Well, that was a fantastic wrap up.

Phil: So we're just going to move on to Phil's questions for Tom from other people's podcasts where Tom answers questions from other podcasts because on those shows, they were answered.

Phil: I've only got a couple this week.

Phil: George writes, favorite candy bar.

Tom: That's a tough one.

Tom: I don't know if I have one.

Phil: Do you eat candy bars?

Phil: You've got Snickers.

Tom: I haven't eaten them for a long time.

Phil: You've got Snickers, you've got Maros, you've got Violet Crumble, an Australian...

Tom: I'll go back to an old favorite, which I think doesn't exist anymore.

Tom: The nudge bar.

Phil: Oh, nudge.

Phil: Ah, nudge bar.

Phil: Isn't it something that's on the front of your car so that you don't...

Phil: It's not like a bull bar, it's a nudge bar.

Phil: I think you're confused, mate.

Tom: You don't know of the old nudge bar?

Phil: No.

Phil: Is this a confectionary that people can eat?

Tom: Yes.

Tom: I think it was an Australian one.

Phil: I have heard of it.

Phil: I am joking.

Tom: I don't think it's available anymore.

Phil: Well...

Tom: It's an old classic.

Phil: What did it obviously involve?

Phil: Chocolate?

Tom: I think it was chocolate coated, sort of like a milky bar filling, but not as sweet, and a chewier, richer sort of texture.

Phil: So a Cadbury Nunch had hazelnuts, nougat and caramel.

Phil: Hazelnuts were the key.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, no, that's long gone, man.

Phil: Oh, that's so sad.

Tom: That's why I don't eat chocolate bars anymore.

Phil: What about Crunch or Butterfinger?

Phil: Do they sell Butterfingers down here?

Phil: Kit Kat?

Tom: They don't have Butterfingers down here.

Tom: They do have Kit Kats.

Tom: Kit Kats I am a big fan of.

Phil: Yep, the wafers.

Phil: You'll have to see when you go to Sri Lanka if they have any sort of special candy bar and report back to us.

Phil: Oh, look.

Tom: We are taking about kilos of chocolate to Sri Lanka.

Phil: Thomas from New Jersey, who would be shaken, not stirred at this point, writes open world games seem to have moved from urban settings to wider open spaces.

Phil: Is the move away from cities because it would take more resources to make cities with the fidelity now available than it would to do a field?

Phil: So we are thinking about Grand Theft Auto versus Horizon or Breath of the Wild.

Phil: Open world games have moved from urban settings to wider open spaces.

Phil: Why is that?

Phil: Remember, you're competing...

Tom: I don't think you can necessarily make that statement, because I think there are pretty much as much city-based open world games as there, which is to say outside of GTA, they come and go in little bubbles, and you go through periods of not having them.

Tom: And we do have at least one other city-based open world game, and that is Cyberpunk, and we do see the old Saints Row being released now and then, so I think there's probably as many of them as there usually are going around at the moment.

Phil: Yeah, and it just depends on...

Tom: If anything, the change is that there are more fantasy open world games at the moment.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, we can get away with things there.

Tom: And I would argue there are only more open world fantasy games simply because that's what Zelda has become.

Tom: If you take Zelda out of the equation, I wouldn't say people will be thinking there are more of them at the moment.

Phil: Yeah, no, I'd agree with that.

Phil: It's a good point, and with that, we will close out episode one of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: But speaking of Zelda, actually...

Phil: Thanks for listening to The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: I do have to bring up one more thing.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Which is that the...

Tom: Nintendo's famous build quality...

Phil: Oh, yes, yes.

Phil: Actually, you know what?

Phil: This is very important.

Phil: I'm glad that you've read our outro for this, because we cannot have a good outro.

Phil: Last episode, it was too good.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: So, let's talk about...

Tom: So, we're gonna have a good outro, not outro, but final segment, then a terrible outro following.

Phil: Yes, yes, yes.

Phil: So, build quality.

Phil: You've picked up a LED or OLED switch?

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So, before we get to that, my Nintendo Switch is only, I think, three years old.

Tom: And last year, sometime last year, the battery would charge to %, but if it was used, it would last maybe minutes and get to zero.

Phil: Wow.

Tom: And it wasn't just that it was misreading the amount of charge that was left, it would power off completely.

Tom: Then maybe six months later, it gets to about two minutes before it just powers off completely.

Tom: So I have to say, I've questioned this supposed high build quality Nintendo ever since I heard of it in the first place.

Tom: The DS worked for me in various stages of disrepair, but I'm not sure you can say just because a console will work when it's broken in half.

Tom: Is good build quality when it is broken in half in the first place.

Tom: So at this stage, I have to say that they're merely riding their achievements in far forgotten consoles in terms of build quality.

Phil: Look, my experience is the original NES, real trouble.

Phil: My SNES I bought used, it's been a real trooper, no problems whatsoever.

Phil: Still using my original Nstill using my original GameCube, still using my original Wii, Wii U, and my Switch gets used by a six-year-old, and it's still going fantastic.

Phil: So I've been using, I've had nothing but, but I, you know, I became a Nintendo Hardware in game and watch.

Phil: So yeah, I, and trust me, I mean, I played the hell out of all of those consoles and not had an issue.

Phil: So have I had any issues with Nintendo Builder?

Phil: No, not all.

Phil: I mean, Game Boys, Game Boy Advances.

Phil: No, I mean, except for the DS Lite, they had that hinge break problem.

Phil: That was the only issue I've had with their hardware.

Phil: So I'm sorry to hear that, because you had three years, that's the new one, right, with the, it's the single piece ones.

Phil: So that's a sad sign.

Tom: Not the single piece one, no.

Phil: Oh, so it has detachable joy pads.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Okay, I didn't know they did that with the upgraded screen.

Tom: Yes, they do.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Are you taking it on your holiday?

Tom: Well, that is why I bought one.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Otherwise, I would have left it and probably tried to repair this one first.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: But I was forced into, unfortunately, rebuying a broken console, as I was with the PS

Tom: And like with the PSI scoured eBay looking for a good deal so that Nintendo was unlikely to get any of my money, just as I did not want to give Sony any more of my money because they were forcing me to rebuy a broken console, which should not be broken after only a few years of use.

Phil: And then, you know, I've still got my launch PSand it works fine.

Phil: I did buy subsequent PSs, obviously.

Phil: The only consoles that I've had really bad luck with was the and I went through, I think, four of those.

Phil: But, you know, as long as they were providing free replacements, that was easy to do, so you kind of just did it because you could.

Phil: So what's your experience with the new one?

Tom: Very brief, but I will say I got the Tears of the Kingdom edition because that's what I could find the best new deals on.

Tom: But despite being the Tears of the Kingdom edition, it does not come with Tears of the Kingdom, which I think is an interesting marketing ploy and arguably a little bit questionable because I can imagine there are going to be a lot of disappointed children who have been given the Tears of the Kingdom edition console and been expecting it to include the game, only to find out it does not.

Phil: But Tears are included.

Phil: That's right.

Tom: Tears of the King folk, as opposed to the Kingdom.

Tom: But I was able to find what was an even better deal than on the console, on what I always presumed was a scam website, catch.com.au.

Tom: I was able to find a new copy of Tears of the Kingdom, the new Zelda game, for $

Tom: And finding a used version of Tears of the Kingdom under $was an impossible task.

Tom: So I don't know how that was possible, but it was.

Tom: So I did end up with Tears of the Kingdom as well as the Tears of the Kingdom console as well.

Tom: And other than the console itself looking very nice indeed, it's got a beautiful Zelda iconography gold on white for the console base and golden Joy-Cons, detachable Joy-Cons, which look fantastic as well.

Tom: The OLED screen is beautiful, and it's going to make, I think, playing games on an LCD television pretty disappointing by comparison.

Tom: Just as playing, when I go from using my IPS monitors to playing the same game on the television, despite the screen being significantly larger, it's always a little bit disappointing due to how gray the blacks are and dull the colors are by comparison.

Phil: Yeah, I certainly would have upgraded by now had I not thought the Switch is imminent.

Phil: If the Switch is not backward compatible, I'll probably go out and get one immediately.

Phil: You know, the OLED.

Tom: I actually think a Switch may not be as imminent as you think.

Tom: I think new consoles will be, I think, a few years off.

Phil: All right, well, with that, if it's okay with you, we'll close out the show.

Tom: You now have my permission to close out the show, yes.

Phil: And I want to speak to the listeners here, not just because, you know, I'm sitting here talking to you all the time.

Phil: I'm going to talk to our listeners now, and I'm going to thank them for listening to The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: We've been doing this since so there's lots of resources we have covering games from that time to now on our website, gameunder.net.

Phil: If you'd like to submit a question, use our comments section on our homepage.

Phil: Thank you again for listening to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I'm Phil.

Tom: I'm Tom Towers.

Phil: And that's the show.