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Phil rides solo this show and goes over the news before talking about Princess Peach Showtime, Slay the Spire, Suika Game and the new Inazuna Eleven early access demo.
0:00:26 Intro
0:01:02 News
0:13:28 Princess Peach: Showtime!
0:27:30 Suika Game
0:34:30 Balantro
1:07:24 Buldur’s Gate 3
1:09:45 Outro
Transcript:
Phil: Hi everyone, and welcome to Episode of The Game Under Podcast, Australia's longest-running video game podcast.
Phil: I'm Phil Fogg.
Phil: This episode, I am not joined by my co-host, Tom Towers.
Phil: He's on assignment.
Phil: So you'll only have me to listen to as I talk about the news and also some games I've been playing.
Phil: I've got my final impressions of Princess Peach Showtime.
Phil: Also some games that perhaps you haven't heard of that you should, including Suica Game.
Phil: Also talking about Slay the Spire, which is a game that I've been wanting to get to for several weeks, but just hasn't fit into the show.
Phil: So let's kick it off with the news.
Phil: Story number one, Tekken's director.
Phil: Young people don't like fighting games much.
Phil: This is credit to VGC.
Phil: Tekken director Harada reckons those pesky youngins don't like fighting games as much as people his own age, because unlike team-based games, there's nobody else to blame when you lose.
Phil: This was recorded on Shuei Yoshida's PlayStation podcast, which I've got to look up.
Phil: He says, It seems to me that the way fighting games are played has evolved over time with the generations.
Phil: In Japan and probably in most of the world, my generation is a big one.
Phil: It makes up a good chunk of the population, and it made our society a competitive one.
Phil: If you applied to a school or a job, there was always a lot of competition.
Phil: Because of this, people in my generation prefer definitive outcomes, a clear winner and loser.
Phil: This applies to folks in and around their s.
Phil: But he said, most young people nowadays are the opposite.
Phil: They're really eager to engage in one-on-one showdowns.
Phil: Plus, because fighting games pit you against a single opponent, you have to accept all the responsibility.
Phil: You can't blame anyone else.
Phil: In team-based shooters, when players win, they can say that they've won because of their own contributions.
Phil: But when they lose, it's because they got matched with a lousy team.
Phil: Yeah, I mean, I don't know that there's much to be gained by slamming any sort of demographic or group, particularly when the game is selling quite well.
Phil: It can't all be to -year-old people who like to win or lose.
Phil: So I'm not quite sure this is true.
Phil: It does sound like something my age would say if I wasn't well-informed, but perhaps he's looking to blame someone other than himself for the game's poor sales.
Phil: I don't know, I don't know.
Phil: I have no idea where this would come from, but it certainly made it into our news this week because it's the sort of thing that usually wouldn't make it through a PR rep.
Phil: So there you have it.
Phil: Young people don't have the fighting spirit.
Phil: Story number two, Blizzard Boss.
Phil: Players should be able to tip devs.
Phil: And again, credit for this goes to VGC.
Phil: A bit of a misleading headline because he's a former Blizzard boss, but Mike Ibarra said that when he beats a game, there are some that just leave me in awe of how amazing this experience was.
Phil: I've often thought, I wish I could give these folks another or $because it was worth more than the initial $and they didn't try and nickel and dime me.
Phil: Ibarra was quick to point out in his post, which was on X, that most will dislike the idea.
Phil: And as a society, we are tired of tipping and everything else, but I view this as different from a pressure to tip type scenario.
Phil: He caught a lot of flack for this and I can't say that I can agree with him getting criticized for this kind of statement because at some point, at least in the last years, multiple times, I've finished a game that I've been playing for hours, hours, hours, where I've spent $on and have often gone, I want to give the studio some more.
Phil: It also comes up when me and Tom had that Twitch sale of the century where I think we paid $or $or something for some social movement and then we ended up with like free games on twitch.io.
Phil: I've played games on there, loved it and then basically because I got it for free, when I wanted to replay it, I'd go buy it on Steam or buy it on Switch because I do want to show the developer that I appreciated what they gave me.
Phil: So I don't know about the mechanics of it and I don't think that he's seriously proposing it as an idea.
Phil: He's just saying, look, I've often thought, I wish I could give these folks another or $
Phil: He's not saying how it should be implemented if the money would go directly to the actual people that develop the game or would just end up in the publisher's pile of money.
Phil: I don't think people like the idea of tipping major publicly traded companies for releasing a good product that has tremendous value, but if I look at something like Stardew Valley, which was a game that I got plenty of time out of, my family's got plenty of time out of, I've had no problem double dipping and buying it for multiple generations.
Phil: And a game that I'm gonna be talking about later, Slay the Spire, you know, I had it on PlayStation needed to play it away from there.
Phil: I had no hesitation to go out and pay for it again on the Switch.
Phil: So there's plenty of ways to show that you can appreciate a developer, most times through buying the DLC or just checking out their next game.
Phil: Or, you know, an old fashioned email or tweet back to the developer saying how much you appreciated the game.
Phil: You know, that goes a long way.
Phil: And I work in a company, one of the companies I work in, and you know, from time to time, we get feedback from consumers, including today, which is just completely unwarranted, thoughtful appreciation for our product.
Phil: And it means a lot that people take time out of the day just to express thanks.
Phil: So, you know, again, I'm not gonna bash Mike Ibarra over the head for this one, as many people have.
Phil: We'll just move on to story number three.
Phil: Speaking of Blizzard, it says that, or at least one of the spokespeople said that they're still in talks about a console version of World of Warcraft.
Phil: The legendary MMO turns this year.
Phil: I would have thought it was at least five or years more than that.
Phil: And again, credit for this story goes to VGC.
Phil: I do scour the internet.
Phil: I don't just sit on VGC, but our top three stories happen to come from them this week.
Phil: Speaking to VGC, Holly Longdale, the VP and executive producer of World of Warcraft, discussed life after becoming part of Microsoft.
Phil: Asked about a console version of the game, she replied, well, of course we still talk about it.
Phil: We're gamers.
Phil: I don't think anything is out of the realm of possibility, but we don't have anything to talk about right now.
Phil: She was asked this question in BlizzCon in where she called it a complicated question.
Phil: And that no doubt was complicated because Microsoft had not yet purchased Activision Blizzard.
Phil: We've got these expansions we're excited about, but yeah, of course it would be very insincere to say we're not like, of course, talking about it before adding, we are Microsoft now, which is kind of a funny statement.
Phil: Also, when you consider that the headline says that Blizzard is still in talks about a console version, it's not like they have to negotiate this with Sony or whatever.
Phil: If they want to get it onto a console, Microsoft can do it.
Phil: And I was thinking, well, why hasn't it come onto a console?
Phil: When you consider years ago in I think we're probably, yeah, most definitely still on PlayStation era or Xbox era consoles, and there was just no way of really doing it.
Phil: It's difficult to recall, but getting online with a console, with a unified account, playing a game that would tie in and be able to be played on PC as well was just something that hasn't been achievable up until the last few years.
Phil: And you might struggle back to remember that it wasn't until games like Rocket League came along and accidentally showed, or even I think Borderlands accidentally showed, or maybe it was an epic game, that cross-play was possible.
Phil: So these kinds of things just from an online infrastructure wasn't there.
Phil: And also I think in it probably would have been a bit of a challenge to run an MMO.
Phil: Well, certainly you couldn't because it wasn't really online, and you're relying on massive multi-players to be participating.
Phil: But also from just a hardware, graphical, technical perspective, it would have been difficult for those consoles to be running it.
Phil: So yeah, there was all sorts of barriers years ago to why World of Warcraft would not be on consoles, but I think all of those barriers now have been knocked down.
Phil: And certainly with Microsoft owning Blizzard, this should be an easy one.
Phil: And I don't see why it wouldn't be something that they can introduce now, and if they release a new console or whatever else, they can roll that over and have it be a persistent game online.
Phil: It's not like it has to be a singular release considering the architecture of the consoles.
Phil: Anyway, I'd be interested in your thoughts.
Phil: And again, if you want to give us any of your thoughts, the easiest way to do that is to go to gameunder.net and just leave a comment in the comment section.
Phil: It doesn't require you to log in or give your ID or anything like that.
Phil: And you can just drop in a comment there from the episode that you're listening to.
Phil: And this one is
Phil: Final news story for today.
Phil: Roblox tightens up developer requirements.
Phil: Credit for this one goes to gameindustry.biz.
Phil: Listeners of our last episode would have heard all about the kind of trouble that Roblox got itself into when it was talking about child exploitation and of course how they're not exploiting children developers.
Phil: This was covered by a really quick and ham-fisted PR release that basically said, we're not exploiting children and on and on.
Phil: But now you've got some solid requirements that have been put in place by Roblox.
Phil: Now, they're not going to turn around on a dime just because a couple of idiots on podcasts or on Reddit two weeks ago gave them curry for their silly comments.
Phil: So I have to believe that this has been in the pipeline for some time, and basically they've turned the keys to activate it.
Phil: Roblox has announced that it has moved from an application-only process for marketplace sellers.
Phil: Users must now adhere to four requirements to be eligible to sell content.
Phil: Among them, creators must be ID verified and subscribe to the platform's subscription service of $or $per month.
Phil: I'm assuming $must be the developer pack.
Phil: I don't know.
Phil: Marketplace sellers must also follow Roblox community standards and marketplace policies.
Phil: Well, that's just a eula.
Phil: There's nothing special about that.
Phil: And then their spokes hole said, these new eligibility requirements will enable more creators to sell items in the marketplace, giving them a new way to earn and users more choice in the items they can purchase, while also allowing Roblox to effectively enforce its marketplace policies and prevent violators from circumventing moderation.
Phil: I guess getting the money from them wouldn't prevent any of that, so they're relying on the ID verified, which I don't know what they're going to do there.
Phil: I guess you scan in a driver's license and then you upload a selfie.
Phil: I know that's what some motels require you to do these days that don't have a reception.
Phil: So maybe that's what they're doing.
Phil: In any case, I think this is a step towards a positive thing.
Phil: If Tom was here, he'd probably say it's not a positive thing, because this is going to drop out a whole bunch of creators and creative people who don't want to submit to these kinds of privacy regimes.
Phil: And I can see that.
Phil: And if a kid is developing, obviously they're just going to, as they've been using their parents' credit cards, they're going to, you know, borrow their credit's driver's licenses and just ask their dad or mom, hey, can you do this for me?
Phil: Because this is my hobby, and if that was my kid, I'd say absolutely.
Phil: So yes, I would violate the terms and conditions of Roblox.
Phil: Go ahead and arrest me.
Phil: Okay, so that's it for the news.
Phil: And so it's time for what we've been playing.
Phil: The first game I'll be talking about this episode is Princess Peach Showtime for the Switch.
Phil: Now, why would I play this?
Phil: I hear you say.
Phil: This is a developed, published game, developed by Goodfeel, who's headed up by director and I'm sorry, it's, I believe, Etsunobu Ibushi and he was the designer of a game called Goemon.
Phil: This is his first directorial role in over years.
Phil: And for that alone, I thought it was interesting enough to play Princess Peach Showtime.
Phil: We've seen developers like Yuji Naka come back and, you know, be in charge of a game after a long period.
Phil: And, you know, those games have felt really old and out of date.
Phil: So I was interested in that respect.
Phil: He's got his own company called Goodfeel, and he was working as a programmer and game designer at Konami, working in the Castlevania franchise.
Phil: So before he set up his own company.
Phil: And he has worked, well, not him, but his company has worked on Yoshi's Woolly World, Kirby's Epic Yarn, and Wario Land's Shake It and more.
Phil: So my notes about this, basically, you play as Princess Peach, and she's partially voiced.
Phil: And I'd like to talk about that a little bit later, but with some text.
Phil: And the game follows the transformation theme of other Nintendo Switch games, like Kirby and Mario Odyssey.
Phil: You know, in those, you know, you throw your hat on someone, and you take on the characteristics of that person.
Phil: That was in Odyssey.
Phil: Obviously, in Kirby, you inhale a car, and now you're a car.
Phil: You know, that sort of thing.
Phil: So this is something that I don't know if they're just...
Phil: I don't know what this is about, if they're reusing an engine or something.
Phil: I just haven't seen it this prevalent in a single console generation for a single console maker before, or publisher, game developer.
Phil: In this one, in each stage, you play a new role, which could be a tip of the hat back to Super Mario Bros.
Phil: which I don't know if you remember, but decades after its release, Miyamoto revealed it was a stage play and not actual events in the Mushroom Kingdom.
Phil: Now, of course, the first game where Peach was a playable character for the first time was Super Mario Bros.
Phil: which was a dream, recalled by Mario.
Phil: Again, not real events, and here I sound like Comic Book Eye.
Phil: Which raises a question.
Phil: If Super Mario Bros.
Phil: was real and and were not real life events, was Nor Mario Land the next real events in Mario's life?
Phil: But they're probably not in sequential order, and now I'm sounding like a huge nerd.
Phil: Anyway, Peach rocks up to this theater to see a show, and someone is stealing stuff, and that's why the show can't go on and everyone is walking around depressed and bummed out.
Phil: So Peach goes, well, this isn't good.
Phil: I've got to do something.
Phil: So basically, she can go into, if you can imagine like a hub world, she can go into one of four different theaters inside this theater, if you think of like a multiplex movie theater, and she'll go into the first one or the second one or the fourth one.
Phil: It doesn't matter.
Phil: You can do them in any order, but you can't go outside of the first floor of this theater.
Phil: And so you can play as cowgirl peach, ninja peach, chef peach, ice skater peach, and all of those levels are unlockable in any order.
Phil: And so to describe the game, just to take a big step back, it's basically a D platformer is how we would have used to describe this.
Phil: So fully rendered polygonal assets, but you're playing them from a D perspective, which is really interesting because this has been made on the Unreal Engine, which I thought was just interesting anyway.
Phil: But if you think of Unreal games like Arkham Asylum, where they use the Unreal Engine, but then at the end of the game, spoilers for a, I guess, -year-old game, they had the Scarecrow level where Batman is walking in D.
Phil: And that was a revelatory type scene where he was doing this puzzle where he's walking around the corners of a building while Scarecrow is, you know, moving a spotlight.
Phil: And then as he gets to a corner, the whole building turns, and then you see it again, you know, from a front-on perspective or a D perspective platformer style.
Phil: So, and that was like, oh, wow, you know, you can use Unreal for this kind of platformer as well.
Phil: So, yeah, so that was interesting.
Phil: So anyway, this is a D platformer, and you progress from left to right, basically doing simple, you know, platforming things, wall jumps, double jumping, and usually the B button or the action button is doing whatever that person would do.
Phil: So as a cowgirl, you're using a lasso, which is fantastic.
Phil: As a ninja, you're using nunchucks.
Phil: As a chef, you're doing different kinds of things.
Phil: You're decorating cakes.
Phil: So that was sort of a weird little Mario Party type sidestep to it.
Phil: And as an ice skater, I think you're just, no, you're not jumping, you may be twirling.
Phil: And then as Peach, just as a normal Peach, if you're walking around, you use the action button to fling your ribbon, and it will bring spark to life.
Phil: So if there's a dead tree, she can just do it, and it brings the tree to life.
Phil: Now, that's still on stage, so you've got to remember that everything she's doing, she's acting a role.
Phil: So it's not like she's been transported to some magical land where she can do anything.
Phil: So anyway, you progress through the levels.
Phil: Some of the levels have major bosses, some of them don't.
Phil: From a challenging perspective, well, we'll get into that.
Phil: So basically, after you unlock the bottom floor, you encounter a major boss, I guess, and more of the plot is revealed.
Phil: It doesn't really matter.
Phil: The story does not really matter in this game, as you would imagine.
Phil: But then, you know, the basement opens up, and then as you unlock those, the second story unblocks.
Phil: So much like my experience with Kirby last year, I found it to be a lot more content than I first thought, because judging by the back of the box, I figured, okay, it's just basically this floor.
Phil: You unlock it, then you'll go upstairs and kill a boss or whatever.
Phil: But no, you go up again to another floor.
Phil: That's the second floor again, where they introduce even more characters for Peach to play.
Phil: And then you go up yet another floor, where there's even more levels to play.
Phil: So I feel like I'm towards the end of the game.
Phil: I've got to say that I had not unlocked all of the first floor when I sat down yesterday.
Phil: It was a rainy day, so I sat down around o'clock.
Phil: It's like, okay, I'll just go ahead and beat this game.
Phil: I was still playing it at, I'm going to say, that night with a break for dinner.
Phil: So, and had not yet finished it, so I can't imagine more than an hour and a half left.
Phil: So, yeah, I'm going to say there's probably about six to seven hours of game play for someone who's an experienced gamer.
Phil: Again, this game is for kids.
Phil: So, you know, this is not something that I think is a must play for every Nintendo fan.
Phil: But I've got to say, it is really good.
Phil: And the details in this game are, as you would imagine, Nintendo worthy.
Phil: There's fantastic attention to detail in this game.
Phil: Lots of creative things that they're introducing right to the very end, much like the Kirby game from last year.
Phil: And in terms of challenge, yeah, I mean, for the most part, you're going to walk through this if you're an experienced gamer.
Phil: However, you know, I've gotten to the bosses, and they've got some pretty good bosses.
Phil: I'd say Mario Odyssey level bosses, maybe even Mario Galaxy level bosses, some of them.
Phil: There's good pattern recognition and some good difficulty going on.
Phil: So just a solid Nintendo game.
Phil: And the other reason why I bought this game is because my daughter wanted it after playing the demo.
Phil: And, you know, it's got a female protagonist, which, you know, is not something that comes along in every game every day, especially one that's suitable for a younger person.
Phil: So I appreciate that.
Phil: And on that topic, I should say that, you know, I've got to say she started playing when she was four and beating easier platformer games.
Phil: She's now six and playing this.
Phil: She still had some challenges with it, but, you know, with just basically sticking to it, she's been able to overcome most things with minimal help from me.
Phil: One thing that I've always thought was silly was that how, or a barrier to entry for children that cannot yet read, is how Nintendo doesn't have voice acting for its characters because kids basically get to the written word component of a game and then give up or are frustrated because they don't know what's going on.
Phil: And I, you know, I was really, you know, I didn't like this a lot when she was four and playing Paw Patrol games and things like this because it was frustrating for her.
Phil: So, but the thing is, like with this game, and I think with most of Nintendo's games, what I really value right now is that she's reading, right?
Phil: So she's now able to read what the characters are saying, which is fantastic.
Phil: So as a parent, I'm happy that she's getting more reading exercise, as well as hand-eye coordination, puzzle solving, and all the rest of it out of this video game.
Phil: But it's kind of like, well, you know what?
Phil: If you can't read, you probably don't have the physical acuity to actually play this game.
Phil: I don't think that if you were of an age where you cannot read, you're not going to be able to play this game anyway.
Phil: And I'm not talking about adult literacy.
Phil: I'm talking about the target audience for this game, which is children.
Phil: There's no point in giving this game to a four-year-old.
Phil: A four-year-old cannot play this.
Phil: A four-year-old is not most.
Phil: They're not going to be able to get their head around doing wall jumps and all the rest of it.
Phil: So in a way, I give Nintendo a pass because I do like the fact that it's teaching my daughter to read or get better at her reading.
Phil: And again, if I'd given her this game when she was four, she's going to be frustrated for reasons other than not being able to read.
Phil: It's going to be because she couldn't play the game.
Phil: Having said that, I'm not giving Nintendo a free pass.
Phil: I think they've got to look at the age group for their games and deliver content that's appropriate for that age group.
Phil: So I would have to imagine that most people playing, most children playing the Zelda games right now are probably the next step up.
Phil: They're going to be eight, nine, maybe in that kid's age.
Phil: And they already don't need additional reading practice.
Phil: So give Link a voice.
Phil: And I believe that Nintendo can do it because they've got a tremendously efficient pipeline.
Phil: They've demonstrated that phenomenally over the Switch's life that they're able to release games without having a seven-year development cycle like everyone else has to have and still deliver high-quality, fantastic games that, guess what, aren't broken when they launch.
Phil: This game did not require a patch, for example, and most of their games don't.
Phil: So yeah, my overall experience with the game is that, you know, I'm not going to put the qualifier on it for a kids' game.
Phil: I'm just going to say for a game, for someone who likes D platformers, say someone who likes Clonoa, then you will not be disappointed with this game.
Phil: From a value proposition, you know, it's a short amount of play time.
Phil: So if you're ultra rich and, you know, this is not a lot of money for you, you pick it up, buy it, play it.
Phil: Great.
Phil: It does have replay value.
Phil: You can go back through and pick up more collectibles and things like that.
Phil: And there are other things that will happen.
Phil: There's other reasons for you to continue playing.
Phil: But, you know, not that much.
Phil: I think it's a thin veneer that they put there just to to say, hey, you know, when the game's over, it's not over.
Phil: But, yeah, all in all, will I give it a dreaded out of ?
Phil: A meaningless score that says it's good but not great.
Phil: I'm going to give it a recommends for people who like D platformers, people who like Peach in particular, you're going to like it.
Phil: There's no other Nintendo characters in there, at least not up, as I said, I'm probably about an hour away from the final, if not even that.
Phil: I haven't seen any other Nintendo characters in it.
Phil: It's a bunch of Pikmin-looking type characters.
Phil: No, that's not even true.
Phil: Okay, so on to the next game.
Phil: Now, this next game I discovered through Retro Gamer Magazine, which I think recently turned years themselves.
Phil: And Retro Gamer is a fantastic read, no matter where you are in the world.
Phil: It is written in Britain, so there is some references, or a fair amount of references, maybe % to British-type computers from the s that aren't really relevant to the rest of the world.
Phil: But other than that, hey, for magazines, it's pretty slim right now.
Phil: And they do a fantastic job.
Phil: One of the articles that they have is a feature that basically says Future Classics.
Phil: So this is a game that will one day feature on the cover of Retro Gamer.
Phil: But it's a game that you can play right now.
Phil: And I had never heard of this game, and it's pretty obscure.
Phil: So the story behind it, the name of the game is Suica Game.
Phil: That's S-like Sam U-I-K-A game.
Phil: And this is a game that is developed by a company called Aladdin X.
Phil: Now if you go to Aladdin X's website, you won't see that they're a video game developer.
Phil: They make like projectors and big screens and HDMI cable adapters and things of that nature.
Phil: And for one of their trade shows, they developed, one of their programmers developed this game, Suica Game, which is a puzzle game.
Phil: And they thought it was so good that they decided to release it on the Switch.
Phil: Now, you can get it on the Switch for less than $
Phil: And it is incredible.
Phil: It is an incredible puzzle game and worthy of retro games' attention.
Phil: Basically, if you can imagine Tetris, but there are, let me count, two, four, six, eight, ten, eleven fruits.
Phil: And the first five fruits will drop.
Phil: So you can drop these small fruits.
Phil: So imagine a strawberry, a cherry, grapes, an orange, and a grapefruit, right?
Phil: Or a lemon and a grapefruit.
Phil: And you drop these, these things will drop, and you get to position them in left and right.
Phil: So imagine a D game where you've got a rectangular, much like Tetris, but instead of blocks, you're dropping these round fruit.
Phil: Now if you drop a cherry on top of another cherry, it'll form a strawberry.
Phil: If you drop a strawberry on top of another strawberry, it creates a grapefruit, and on and on.
Phil: You get up to sort of like this large apple, and then ultimately, the ultimate goal is to get two watermelons, which is the largest one.
Phil: Now the problem is, the receptacle in which you're dropping these fruit is really only the size of about maybe three watermelons in a stretch.
Phil: So you've got a lot of garbage that builds up around it.
Phil: Now I've gotten one watermelon once.
Phil: So that's just, and I've played this game probably hours.
Phil: So yeah, the graphics are super cute.
Phil: So you've got this super simplified Japanese cartoon type fruit.
Phil: And it is a game that is easy to learn, but a challenge to master.
Phil: And it's hypnotic.
Phil: This is a game that my daughter plays, my wife plays.
Phil: They can't stop playing it.
Phil: They just love it.
Phil: And again, only available on Switch.
Phil: It was initially released in and then worldwide in
Phil: It is also on iOS, I should say.
Phil: I've been saying it's only on Switch.
Phil: It is released on iOS.
Phil: And I've got to give some credit where it's due.
Phil: This was a Chinese mobile game.
Phil: So this is based on something else, but it's not as good.
Phil: I am almost reluctant to send you to a website where you can play it through a browser because it does not capture much of the spirit of the game whatsoever.
Phil: And so you can go to suica.gg, for a dumbed down version of it.
Phil: But again, this is less than $
Phil: I think it's less than $on the Switch.
Phil: And it's a must-buy, must-play game.
Phil: It only has one song that plays over and over again.
Phil: And the secret to this is that it's physics based.
Phil: And this is not something that you pick up on right away, but you can play the system a little bit so that when you, say, join two grapefruits, there's a little pop, a little explosion that moves all the things around it.
Phil: If you add then the next two things, like two oranges together, that pop together, it'll create a bigger pop, a bigger explosion, and things will sort of pop up a little bit.
Phil: It's not like popcorn where it'll pop explosively.
Phil: It's just a little pop and then things will move around.
Phil: And when those things happen, that's your chance to quick drop fruit as it's coming because you'll start to fill some of those gaps.
Phil: So there is some strategy to it.
Phil: And then also if you've got two similar fruits that you want to join, you can start dropping stuff on part of the side of the screen there and sort of nudge them over together so that when there is a pop, they'll join together and connect.
Phil: I'm not explaining this probably as well as a YouTube video of it will do.
Phil: This game rose to prominence because it's very streamable.
Phil: And so there's a channel out there that's been streaming this for quite some time that's quite funny.
Phil: And I know it's watchable because I'll just sit there and watch my kid play it.
Phil: And if someone else is watching me play, they'll go, oh, you should have put that there or you should have put that there because everyone's got their own way of figuring out how you should be doing it properly.
Phil: There is a two-player mode.
Phil: There's no online, though you can, you know, your scores are kept.
Phil: They keep track of the best score of the day, the week, the month.
Phil: And so there's not a lot of competition there over in the two-player mode.
Phil: But as a pick up and play drop game, it is right up there.
Phil: If you've played threes or any of those kinds of games, you'll see the charm of it.
Phil: And it has a unique thing going for it, which is not just the cuteness and the simplicity of making fruit bigger, but also that physics component as well.
Phil: So it's a game I thoroughly recommend.
Phil: I give it a out of
Phil: If you have a Switch or I would recommend it.
Phil: I can't speak to the iOS experience.
Phil: I haven't downloaded it.
Phil: But yeah, certainly something that is worth checking out and playing.
Phil: And now listeners, we might have a bit of a change in audio quality as Dee Vader has agreed to come on and talk about a hit game called Bellatro.
Phil: So we'll be jumping over to a different recording mechanism.
Phil: So just hang in there.
Phil: Dee Vader, thank you for joining us.
Phil: Of course, I'm not talking about our Lord Vader.
Phil: I'm talking about the man from Florida who has been playing...
Phil: How long have you been playing video games, Dee Vader?
<v SPEAKER_>Since I've been three years old, which is like ..
<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, years ago or so.
Phil: Yeah.
<v SPEAKER_>I was a little kid.
<v SPEAKER_>I was an NES kid.
Phil: You played a lot of games too.
Phil: You chew through a lot, which is fantastic, and a kindred spirit, I dare say.
Phil: You were so passionate about a game that I have been hesitant to start playing because everyone I've heard talking about it has said basically it's like a curse once you recommend it to someone because it's the only thing that they will play.
Phil: And even casuals are like, can't stop talking about this game.
Phil: The game is Bellatro.
Phil: If you haven't heard about it from now, it's developed by a one-man developer in Canada called Local Funk.
Phil: Hasn't done anything before this, at least nothing that's been published, and the publisher is a company called Playstack, which also doesn't even have a Wikipedia entry.
Phil: It's available for everything, and by everything I mean Mac OS, Switch, PlayStation and Windows, Xboxes, you name it.
Phil: And it came out, I think, yeah, it came out worldwide in March, March st, and the reason why I haven't picked it up, even though it was on sale, on the Switch sale this weekend, was because even though I have watched lots and lots of poker on TV, I've won a few poker games.
Phil: I've played poker in video games, but for whatever reason, I don't understand how to play poker.
Phil: There's a part of my brain that either doesn't want to learn it.
Phil: For years, I played Magic the Gathering, a card game which is tenfold more complicated.
Phil: But when it comes to poker, like when I go to a casino, what's your go-to game?
Phil: Do you play craps or what's your go-to?
Phil: How's roulette different from craps?
Phil: Oh yeah, craps, they just throw it on the velvet.
Phil: Roulette, they get the, yeah.
Phil: Very similar games.
Phil: I mean, the game's a chance.
Phil: You have no impact on it, right?
Phil: When I go to a casino, I love playing blackjack, right?
Phil: I love blackjack, and I win at it.
Phil: It's a fun time.
Phil: But I can't get my head around poker.
<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, yeah, okay, well, I mean, poker is obviously the next level up of blackjack, I would say.
<v SPEAKER_>And well, the good news about Velatro is it's not a poker game.
<v SPEAKER_>That's the trick about Velatro.
<v SPEAKER_>It's not at all.
Phil: Just to frame it too, it's a rogue-like deck building game.
Phil: A single-player rogue-like deck building game, which for most people is like saying you've got cancer with AIDS.
Phil: If someone described this game to me, I'd never play it, but I'm addicted to Slay the Spire.
Phil: Have you played that?
<v SPEAKER_>Love that game, yes.
Phil: Because that's a rogue-like deck building game, right?
Phil: I love that game, and actually that's the next game I'm going to talk about in this episode.
Phil: But I went to buy this, I'm like, but I just don't understand poker.
Phil: So it's not an act.
Phil: You don't know poker.
<v SPEAKER_>It uses poker as a base.
<v SPEAKER_>So if you know the hands of a poker, like of a poker game, you understand the basic framework of velatro.
<v SPEAKER_>So it just uses that as to familiarize the public with what they're going for.
<v SPEAKER_>So they just use that as a base.
Phil: I don't understand what a flush is, or a small blind, or a big blind, or a boss blind.
Phil: Even though, again, when I was single and I didn't have cable, I would watch every time the Stupid Poker League came on, I'd watch it.
Phil: They didn't do a good job of teaching the game.
Phil: Yeah, probably.
<v SPEAKER_>Yeah.
Phil: So now, I'm just going to let you go then.
Phil: So you at least have to have a basic level of hands.
<v SPEAKER_>If you know the hands, I mean, they'll teach you, but do they teach you?
<v SPEAKER_>I mean, I guess.
<v SPEAKER_>There's a chart.
<v SPEAKER_>So you'll see a chart of like how, you know, the easiest hand, which is just a high card, and then pair, two pair and so on, and goes up and up and up to like Roy and Flush.
<v SPEAKER_>So depending on the higher level of the hand you get, the more points you get.
<v SPEAKER_>In reality, Volatro is a math game.
<v SPEAKER_>It's a road deck math game, and you're trying to reach a high score, and you do it by manipulating cards and values of those cards to get a high multiplication score, basically.
<v SPEAKER_>And I know once you say, oh, it's math, oh, I don't want to play that.
<v SPEAKER_>Trust me, the way they do it in this game is brilliant, and it is so addicting.
<v SPEAKER_>All it took was the demo.
<v SPEAKER_>I was reading through forums and stuff for recommendations during one of the Steam Fest demos that they did on February, where they have tons of demos, and everyone raving about Volatro.
<v SPEAKER_>I'm like, sure, I'll give it a shot.
<v SPEAKER_>It's free.
<v SPEAKER_>I played that for about three hours straight.
<v SPEAKER_>Just the demo, which was just the beginning little portion of the game.
<v SPEAKER_>And that had me hooked.
<v SPEAKER_>So the second that game went on sale, I bought it immediately.
<v SPEAKER_>So the trick is, yeah, so it starts off like poker.
<v SPEAKER_>You have your hands, but you're not playing another human.
<v SPEAKER_>You're playing against a scoring system.
<v SPEAKER_>So it has two basic score sets.
<v SPEAKER_>There's a card score and a multiplier.
<v SPEAKER_>So this card score is basically the number on the card gets added to a little, you know, like the score.
<v SPEAKER_>So say you have a nine, you get nine points.
<v SPEAKER_>You got an eight, eight points, seven, so on.
<v SPEAKER_>And face cards are ace is
<v SPEAKER_>And then you have to build a hand out of like, you get dealt seven cards, and then you have to build a poker hand out of it.
<v SPEAKER_>So if you have a pair, let's say it's two tens, now you have points.
<v SPEAKER_>Plus each hand has a different set base level that you start with.
<v SPEAKER_>So let's say a pair is points and a multiplier of two.
<v SPEAKER_>But if you do a flush, it's points and a multiplier of four.
<v SPEAKER_>So that's your base, and then you add on to it as you use better cards.
<v SPEAKER_>That's how it starts.
<v SPEAKER_>And then they introduce the joker system, which is where all the variables come in.
<v SPEAKER_>The joker cards are about in the game, and you earn them as you play.
<v SPEAKER_>This is where the rogue-like aspect comes into play.
<v SPEAKER_>As you go deeper, you'll unlock more and more jokers.
<v SPEAKER_>And then these jokers add all kinds of variables to the number system.
<v SPEAKER_>So one of them will say, if you do a flush, you get a plus to multiply.
<v SPEAKER_>One of them will be plus card points if you use just face cards or something like that.
<v SPEAKER_>There will be ones that manipulate how you could earn your hands.
<v SPEAKER_>One will say a straight could be...
<v SPEAKER_>A straight is basically if you have straight numbers,
<v SPEAKER_>So that's a straight.
<v SPEAKER_>Five cards in a row.
<v SPEAKER_>But you have a joker that allows you to skip numbers in between, so a straight could be a a a and so on.
<v SPEAKER_>So it makes it much easier to get that one.
<v SPEAKER_>So it is still a game of chance because it's random cards being dealt.
<v SPEAKER_>But the whole goal of the game is to reduce the chance and increase your odds.
<v SPEAKER_>And you do that through the manipulation of the jokers and a bunch of other types of cards that come into play.
<v SPEAKER_>So at the end of each match, which is essentially the match is, you have a goal of scored reach.
<v SPEAKER_>So in the beginning, it's simple, chips, they say.
<v SPEAKER_>So the chips are, as I said, it's the base, the card score and a multiplier.
<v SPEAKER_>So if you start the game, you have a flush and it's points.
<v SPEAKER_>Let's say your cards add up to like more, so you get
<v SPEAKER_>Multiply that by four, you got points.
<v SPEAKER_>And then you're close to the and you have a certain amount of hands to get that score in.
<v SPEAKER_>So normally it's four hands and three discards.
<v SPEAKER_>So if you don't like the hand you got, the seven cards you got, you can discard up to five cards at a time.
<v SPEAKER_>They'll reshuffle five more cards.
<v SPEAKER_>And then after you have played five hands or four hands, if you have not reached that point total, you lose.
<v SPEAKER_>If you do reach the point total, you get some chips.
<v SPEAKER_>You go on to the next round, and then the store opens up.
<v SPEAKER_>At the end of each little round is a store, and the store has a bunch of different things on sale that could help you in your quest to get more and more points.
<v SPEAKER_>At each level, the points go up, and they start going up exponentially, like a lot.
Phil: So this store is like a soft currency store.
Phil: It's not like hard, in-game currency.
<v SPEAKER_>In-game currency, yes.
<v SPEAKER_>So you start off with four gold chips, and then if you beat the current level, you get a certain base amount of chips, and if you had a lot of hands left over, you didn't use all your hands, you get a chip for each one.
<v SPEAKER_>And then there's bonuses if you had an interest bonus, if you held enough chips, you get a bonus for holding certain chips.
<v SPEAKER_>And then there's a lot of cards that earn you money as well.
<v SPEAKER_>So then the store has like little packs, and these packs could be tarot cards.
<v SPEAKER_>These tarot cards manipulate your deck.
<v SPEAKER_>So all of a sudden, what would be a normal card deck, you could add, you could turn one card into another card, you could manipulate it.
Phil: Is this what they call the arcanas?
<v SPEAKER_>Yes, basically, yes, those cards.
Phil: So have you played Magic the Gathering?
<v SPEAKER_>Not Magic, but I played Slay the Spire, and what was the other one?
<v SPEAKER_>Hearthstone.
Phil: So would it kind of be like a sort of enchantment?
<v SPEAKER_>Yes, absolutely.
<v SPEAKER_>These are enchantments.
<v SPEAKER_>So you could turn cards into different things.
<v SPEAKER_>One card, you could make a card a wild card.
<v SPEAKER_>So instead of being a certain suit, which is one of the four suits, you know, a heart, a spade, a diamond, it could be any of them.
<v SPEAKER_>So it's perfect for a flush.
<v SPEAKER_>So if you're looking for flushes, you want more of those wild cards.
<v SPEAKER_>Or you could manipulate, you might get a bonus card that lets you turn three cards into just one type, like a diamond, or three cards into a heart.
<v SPEAKER_>And you could hold on to that.
<v SPEAKER_>So if you enter a match, and you're desperately looking, I need a flush just to get out of this, or I lose, and you have a card that manipulates three cards to turn into another, perfect.
<v SPEAKER_>And it stays that way in your deck for the rest of the game.
<v SPEAKER_>So you're basically manipulating your deck into what you want.
<v SPEAKER_>So a lot of times, and that goes hand in hand with the jokers that you get.
<v SPEAKER_>Those jokers are the big ones.
<v SPEAKER_>Those are the ones that stay with you, and they have the biggest input into how the scoring happens.
<v SPEAKER_>So like certain jokers will be, like I mentioned before, you'll get a plus multiplier if you use a flush.
<v SPEAKER_>And now you're incentivized to try to get flushes.
<v SPEAKER_>Or another one would be to get straights.
<v SPEAKER_>Or three of a kind gives you plus points.
<v SPEAKER_>And then some jokers will start doing crazy stuff, like add multipliers to the end of...
<v SPEAKER_>Once it adds up all the numbers, it will multiply it by two.
<v SPEAKER_>But only if you do certain conditions.
<v SPEAKER_>So you might have to sell a certain card that you might not want to.
<v SPEAKER_>There's always a push and pull.
<v SPEAKER_>There's always something you have to give up to gain a lot.
<v SPEAKER_>And that is the magic of the game.
<v SPEAKER_>As the levels go on in the store, as different things come out in the store, you never know what you're going to get.
<v SPEAKER_>So at the beginning of the run, I'm never sure what kind of run is this going to be.
<v SPEAKER_>Am I going to be looking for a lot of three of a kind?
<v SPEAKER_>Am I going to be maybe going all face cards?
<v SPEAKER_>Maybe I'm going to go a flush deck, or I'm going to just try to have two suits like the whole way.
<v SPEAKER_>So different things happen.
<v SPEAKER_>And the strategies that change as the matches go on is just brilliant.
<v SPEAKER_>There's so much tug and pull, like, oh man, if I add this card, I might lose this amount of points, but I might gain this in the long run because it's easier to get those cards and so on.
<v SPEAKER_>And then each match, at the end, there's like three, they divide it into what's called eight antes.
<v SPEAKER_>And antes is like, let's say it's like a ladder.
<v SPEAKER_>And then there's three matches in between each rung of the ladder.
<v SPEAKER_>So the first two are pretty basic, and then there's a boss match.
<v SPEAKER_>And then the boss match has some type of challenge to it.
<v SPEAKER_>So it will be like, say, all diamonds are, what's called, not thrown out, but they're debuffed.
<v SPEAKER_>So you don't get any points or any of the enchantments you got from a diamond card in that hand.
<v SPEAKER_>Or it will be a double ante, which is double score.
<v SPEAKER_>So you have to double the score that you would normally get.
<v SPEAKER_>Or it would be one that says you have to sell a joker card before you could actually gain points.
<v SPEAKER_>So things that you have to do these, these, you have to watch out for those boss, boss, because they could really mess up your game.
<v SPEAKER_>Let's say you're going for all flush decks.
<v SPEAKER_>There's one of them that says you cannot use the type of cards that you use, the type of hand that you use the most.
<v SPEAKER_>Now you're screwed.
<v SPEAKER_>You built your entire thing around one hand and now you get this boss that's like, you got to try something else.
<v SPEAKER_>So you always need to have contingency plans.
<v SPEAKER_>And there's even some cards that allow you to re-roll the boss.
<v SPEAKER_>So you could kind of find those if you're lucky.
<v SPEAKER_>But there's so many strategies and so many variations.
<v SPEAKER_>And that's just the base game.
<v SPEAKER_>When you're picking the game that you want to play, there are different decks, and each deck has a different starting point.
<v SPEAKER_>So they start off normal, like, you know, the classic deck.
<v SPEAKER_>Maybe you get one extra hand per match.
<v SPEAKER_>Maybe you get one extra discord.
<v SPEAKER_>Maybe you get a little bit more money at the start.
<v SPEAKER_>But then there are some that have a deck where it's all just no face cards.
<v SPEAKER_>It's just all number of cards.
<v SPEAKER_>And then there's a deck that's all face cards.
<v SPEAKER_>There's a deck where you don't get jokers, but you have your limited.
<v SPEAKER_>They give you, like, one special joker that eats other jokers.
<v SPEAKER_>And then you have to, it's hard to explain because you have to see all the different variations.
<v SPEAKER_>But the way they continuously give you new ways to play is unbelievable.
<v SPEAKER_>For such a, what seems like such a simple concept, it just goes on and on and on, and the depth is never ending.
<v SPEAKER_>And then there's a challenge mode too, which they give you a mode where half the cards that are dealt are face down.
<v SPEAKER_>Another one where it's, there's a total many challenges.
<v SPEAKER_>Some that you start off, you have no money.
<v SPEAKER_>Nothing you do earns money, but you get these jokers that if you hold on to them, and then you sell them at a certain time, they get more money.
<v SPEAKER_>You have to manage those joker cards the entire way, or you have no money at all.
<v SPEAKER_>And it's just brilliant ways to constantly change the way you're handling your deck.
<v SPEAKER_>And that is the brilliance of that game.
<v SPEAKER_>You could play it a hundred times and always get a different, like, just outcome.
<v SPEAKER_>And it goes on and on.
<v SPEAKER_>I'm not even getting close to the higher levels.
Phil: I would believe it.
Phil: So does it scratch the same itch as Slay the Spire?
Phil: Or is it sort of different but same?
<v SPEAKER_>Because it's not a deck builder in that you're building a strategy.
<v SPEAKER_>Well, Slay the Spire is more like this one, because that one also was one round at a time, right?
<v SPEAKER_>Like, once you finish a run, you start over.
<v SPEAKER_>Or you didn't...
Phil: Yeah.
<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, OK.
<v SPEAKER_>I'm thinking more, Hearthstone is more the classic tech deck builder where you assemble a deck and you kind of, you know, you use that deck that you made to play multiple games.
<v SPEAKER_>No, this is like Slay the Spire.
Phil: That leads me to a question.
Phil: So in, do you, like in a rogue, in a true roguelike, you keep none of your progression, you die, and that's it.
Phil: In Slay the Spire, as long as you can keep the runs going, you have access to the cards that you've been accumulating during that run.
<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, yeah.
Phil: And then if you die, the next time you play, those cards that you discovered in previous runs are at least in the spectrum that will fall into the random availability that would never have been there if you had just picked up the game today and started playing it for the first time.
<v SPEAKER_>Exactly.
<v SPEAKER_>That's how it is.
<v SPEAKER_>So you start off with a certain amount of jokers that are not available, and then there's a lot of jokers that need to be unlocked as you play.
<v SPEAKER_>The moment you unlock them, depending on all sorts of conditions you have to reach to unlock them, that's a whole other game on itself to try to get those.
<v SPEAKER_>But once you unlock them, yes, they're there for all future runs.
<v SPEAKER_>They'll be part of the random loadout.
<v SPEAKER_>That you might get.
Phil: Yeah, which is what I like, because the thing that always drove me away from roguelikes was there's no progression.
Phil: And as you'd know from our previous discussions, I like games where you're building on your progress, because otherwise, what are you doing?
Phil: It's basically like playing Tetris every day.
Phil: Yeah, it's fun while it lasts, but you haven't got really a reason to come back other than to experience that Twitch-type thing.
Phil: Whereas with these kinds of roguelikes, I guess, there's a reason to come back because there's that familiarity and it's like, oh yeah, that's the card that I unlocked last time.
Phil: It's popping up again randomly, but at least it's in that world.
Phil: And in Slay the Spire, they have the Daily Challenge, which I like to go in because I see these really powerful cards that I've never even seen yet at my current level of play.
Phil: And you said there's like a daily type challenge?
<v SPEAKER_>No, that's one thing they could add, a daily challenge.
<v SPEAKER_>There's challenges in that it's just a challenge mode.
<v SPEAKER_>It's just a separate mode where it is a crazy condition to the match.
<v SPEAKER_>And then as you unlock of them, at first you have and then if you do those you unlock the super challenges.
<v SPEAKER_>And they get absolutely insane.
<v SPEAKER_>They just, you have to really, really just be good at manipulating the decks and to get some of those done.
<v SPEAKER_>And of course, have luck.
<v SPEAKER_>There is a lot of luck involved.
<v SPEAKER_>So that is, if you're not a fan of R&D, just randomization, it's still at its core, it is a card game.
<v SPEAKER_>So you're going to have that random.
<v SPEAKER_>I do not know, maybe people have looked this up.
<v SPEAKER_>If there is a background formula that helps you maybe one way or another, or if it's true random.
<v SPEAKER_>I can't tell.
<v SPEAKER_>I don't know.
<v SPEAKER_>I've had all kinds.
<v SPEAKER_>I've had strings of great luck and horrible strings of bad luck.
<v SPEAKER_>So I can't see any formula.
<v SPEAKER_>It seems random to me, but who knows.
Phil: Reading about the game's development on Wikipedia, which is a good read in and of itself.
Phil: It's about a guy who quit his real job a year before releasing it on the early build on Steam.
Phil: He didn't play any roguelikes.
Phil: He was avoiding them as much as possible.
Phil: But somehow the game is also based on a Chinese card game called Big Two, which has been around forever.
Phil: When I say Chinese card game, I'm not talking about something that Tencent released last year.
Phil: This is, you know, I presume...
Phil: I'm going to open a new tab here.
Phil: Fact checking.
Phil: Yep, it's a game from hundreds of years ago.
Phil: So it's not like he based it on a game, a Chinese web browser game by Tencent.
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: And it's just...
Phil: But my question was, and that...
Phil: Before you even said it, I was going to ask you, do you feel like you're being gamed?
Phil: All right, but it doesn't sound like it.
<v SPEAKER_>No, no, I enjoy it.
<v SPEAKER_>I enjoy...
Phil: No, it's not that...
Phil: If this game was being made by EA or Activision, you'd go in...
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: You'd go into it going, are they letting me win?
Phil: Are they giving me a good time now?
Phil: No, I don't see why not.
<v SPEAKER_>This is all earned, I feel.
Phil: Okay, there's no monetization.
<v SPEAKER_>Absolutely not.
<v SPEAKER_>No, none.
<v SPEAKER_>And they're doing free updates.
<v SPEAKER_>He's updating it constantly.
<v SPEAKER_>So you're going to be adding new content and new challenges.
<v SPEAKER_>And adjusting.
<v SPEAKER_>There's a big update coming that's just changing rules around.
<v SPEAKER_>Obviously, the community is a little bit back and forth on some of them.
<v SPEAKER_>It's changing, I guess, some of the end game stuff.
<v SPEAKER_>I don't know.
<v SPEAKER_>Some people say it makes it easier.
<v SPEAKER_>Some people say it makes it harder.
<v SPEAKER_>Maybe that means that's perfect.
<v SPEAKER_>That means he got the right balance where it's half and half.
Phil: Exactly.
<v SPEAKER_>So there are changes coming, but he's continuously working on it.
<v SPEAKER_>And there seems to be no plans for a DLC or any paid.
<v SPEAKER_>It's just going to be updates for now.
Phil: Critical reception of this has been uniformly positive.
Phil: As with Slay the Spire, it sold nines and nineties and ninety fives out of a hundred.
Phil: And just beyond that, the word of mouth.
Phil: The game dragged in a million dollars of revenue within the first eight hours of it being available because it was in early access.
Phil: It had a big streaming, you know, some popularity there with some streamers.
Phil: So it's easy to see why it would succeed on that level.
Phil: And it's great also that it's done by a single developer.
Phil: And you think of other games like that, certainly you've got your archetypes like Joe Blow, Jonathan Blow with Braid and Witness.
Phil: You've got Toby Fox, I think is responsible for a game I can't remember anymore.
Phil: Yeah, Undertale, yep.
Phil: And then you've got Sensible Gorilla, I think he's the guy who does Dirty Valley.
Phil: I'm actually going to look that up just to see what the guy's real name actually is.
Phil: But it's great to see these single, cause you know, if you make a million bucks in the first hours, that's just revenue of course.
Phil: I said Sensible Gorilla, the guy's name is actually Concerned Ape.
<v SPEAKER_>You're close enough.
Phil: Sensible Gorilla, Concerned Ape.
<v SPEAKER_>You're in the same track, you're good.
Phil: So could this game be brought, what I don't understand though, is like the guys that do No Man's Sky and Yacht Club Games that do Shovel Knight.
Phil: Like, I don't understand those guys, because they've got like real companies that need to run, but like if you bought the game like eight years ago, they're still giving you like free content.
Phil: You know, you could have bought it on a Wii U, if you go and update it, it's going to have like all the latest stuff.
Phil: Yeah, I did too.
Phil: I was like, well, I updated on everything I could.
Phil: Can you explain that?
Phil: I can understand a single guy studio where it's like, hey, yeah, this is my game, and this is basically all I need to do for the next years.
Phil: But these...
<v SPEAKER_>It has to be the never ending sales.
<v SPEAKER_>Like, I'm guessing that one game is still selling, and as long as it still sells, that is their product that they're selling.
<v SPEAKER_>So like No Man's Sky, that's one of the biggest turnarounds, I think we've seen them a long time.
<v SPEAKER_>Because when that thing came out, that was hated.
<v SPEAKER_>It was a mess, it was a disaster, it was the biggest joke, and they have turned that around year in, year out.
<v SPEAKER_>And yeah, I'm pretty sure every time a sale comes around, they get...
<v SPEAKER_>I don't know, I'm sure they get plenty of sales.
<v SPEAKER_>And by keep adding it, it keeps the attention on that game.
<v SPEAKER_>Like you're always...
<v SPEAKER_>You're gonna go through video game websites when the latest No Man's Sky update comes out, the trailers are there, the guides come up, it gets attention over and over and over again.
<v SPEAKER_>Those games have to be making money constantly.
Phil: And that's the difference about this video game market and the one that we were familiar with say years ago even.
Phil: Like you bring out...
Phil: Let's just look at a simple analysis of Grand Theft Auto for the PlayStation
Phil: You brought out a game, it worked, you didn't get to patch it, you didn't get to sell DLC, there was no online mode.
Phil: That's it.
Phil: And those guys busted their busts to get the next game out two years later.
Phil: And the next one out another two years later.
Phil: But where it falls apart for me, like you look at No Man's Sky, and I bought it cash money for the PlayStation format whenever it got released.
Phil: Played it for a couple of hours and went, don't like it, never played it again.
Phil: Have I been tempted to go back to it?
Phil: Absolutely.
Phil: Certainly not on whatever PlayStation format I bought it on.
Phil: You'd want to play it on PC, I imagine.
Phil: But then you look at a game like Cyberpunk, and that game makes me angry because that was another big turnaround.
Phil: But they had no right to release the game in the condition that it was released in.
Phil: It was delisted from PlayStation stores.
Phil: They just said, no, you can't release it.
Phil: It doesn't work.
<v SPEAKER_>I have never seen that.
<v SPEAKER_>I don't think we've ever seen that.
<v SPEAKER_>Of any major game like that.
<v SPEAKER_>It was crazy.
<v SPEAKER_>They released a product so bad, the store owner, the console owner had to be like, no.
<v SPEAKER_>You don't pass the seal of quality or whatever.
<v SPEAKER_>Remember that, the Nintendo seal of quality.
<v SPEAKER_>They are actually a seal of quality, and it did not pass.
Phil: And crazy.
Phil: And say what you will about shit games like Mace Griffin on the Xbox or Cent Blood on the Sand, which is actually a pretty fun game, or what was the Silicon Knights game that they were going to make three of and then they didn't?
<v SPEAKER_>Oh, Two Human.
Phil: Two Human.
Phil: You know, people will crap all over those games, but hey, excuse me.
Phil: They released them and they worked.
<v SPEAKER_>Yes.
Phil: And they were never patched.
Phil: And you guys are coming out with a top retail game with all of the hurrah with Cyberpunk.
Phil: And I'm not begrudging the guys at Witcher.
Phil: They're fantastic guys.
Phil: I mean, they set up GOG, which is a great game.
Phil: Witcher is a great game.
Phil: I'm not here to disparage them particularly, but you know, it's like I'm just really angry about top tier AAA games coming out and being completely, absolutely broken, requiring a patch.
Phil: It's unforgivable, and yet they've been forgiven.
<v SPEAKER_>I mean, I'm part of the problem.
<v SPEAKER_>I bought Cyberpunk
<v SPEAKER_>Now I bought it on a PS
<v SPEAKER_>I got it on PC.
<v SPEAKER_>I'm sorry.
<v SPEAKER_>I got it on PC.
<v SPEAKER_>It was the last gen versions that were the broken ones, really.
<v SPEAKER_>If you had a PSversion of Cyberpunk, it wasn't too bad.
<v SPEAKER_>But if you had the PSit should never have been released for the old consoles.
<v SPEAKER_>It doesn't make sense because CD Projekt Red is their own publisher.
<v SPEAKER_>I don't understand what happened there.
<v SPEAKER_>I understand if it came from above, some megacorporation that doesn't care about anybody and was like, release it for the old consoles.
<v SPEAKER_>Why would they, understanding that their game cannot run on older consoles, release that?
Phil: It is, I think, perhaps a corruption because they are publicly traded, I think, wherever they are.
Phil: At least I know that they have shareholders because it was going to be a shareholder lawsuit.
Phil: So, because they disparaged the whole brand.
Phil: But if you wanted to look at two sides of a coin or a Jekyll and Hyde type situation, look at the generosity of GOG and the spirit of GOG which is basically born out of their experience of buying games on cassette and copying them at swap markets in the country that they are from because, which I think is Poland, forgive me if I'm wrong, where the whole thing about GOG, not being DRM, not being DRM free was like, hey, the spirit of where we learnt and discovered and explored games was basically you share games, so we're not going to have DRM on GOG.
Phil: And then you look at the complete opposite, where EA will ship a game with a lot of bugs, like the Star Wars third-person shooter.
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
Phil: And they'll make it right pretty quick, but they won't release a completely broken game on a platform that cannot support it.
Phil: So I don't know why I'm so animated about that.
Phil: I guess, again, because of my internet poverty location here, that sort of stuff hurts more because, you know, I see my friends playing these games, I'm like, yeah, I want to play the game, but I just can't afford to be patching games like that in terms of my internet allowance.
<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, this is the trend of where video games are going, and it is the death of physical, and we kept talking about it.
<v SPEAKER_>You know, physical has this little niche right now that's still selling well, but clearly, physical, even as it is now, is not real.
<v SPEAKER_>Like, you buy a game, the disk is like a key.
<v SPEAKER_>You put in the disk into the system, and all of a sudden, you're downloading the other, like, gigs of the game, or a patch that's like gigs long, and that's the real game.
<v SPEAKER_>Like, you don't have anything in that box anymore.
<v SPEAKER_>Like, there's gonna be a future.
<v SPEAKER_>Everything that's come out in the last, like, three years, most of them, on a console and a physical box, let's say you find it in a garage sale years from now.
<v SPEAKER_>You just buy a PSand find that thing, you plug it in without any, there's no more internet updates, because whatever score is down, that game is not gonna run.
<v SPEAKER_>It's not gonna be like an old game that you put it in and there's the game.
<v SPEAKER_>No, nothing is gonna happen.
<v SPEAKER_>No, nothing.
<v SPEAKER_>That's ridiculous.
Phil: And with Wii U going offline last couple of weeks ago, everyone's like, oh, well, who cares?
Phil: Well, I sort of care, because now my copy of Splatoon and my copy of Mario Maker is worth nothing, because who's gonna want to buy that?
Phil: I'm almost at the point where I want to bundle up my Wii U with all the games and just sell it to someone for bucks, because I'm like, well, what's the point?
Phil: Here, just get it out of my house, so I can put another thing in its place.
Phil: But enough being a negative, Nelly.
Phil: Could this game, the game that we're talking about, which is Bellatro, available everywhere, critically acclaimed, rogue-like deck builder, could this be brought into the real world as a card game?
Phil: No.
<v SPEAKER_>No.
<v SPEAKER_>It's too fast, there's too many variables, and there's too many crazy things going on with the multipliers and the jokers to make it...
<v SPEAKER_>You could turn some cards into glass.
<v SPEAKER_>Obviously, you don't need...
<v SPEAKER_>Maybe in a real life, you would need stickers or little chips or something to designate a card as changed into something else.
<v SPEAKER_>In the game, it happens instantly.
<v SPEAKER_>A card that you turn into glass now gives you times two multiplier every time you use it, but it might break one or four times.
Phil: So how that would work in Magic, for example, if you had a regular character, you could add a flying enchantment to it.
Phil: So you tuck the card behind it, so now everyone knows it's a flyer.
Phil: And then if it has plus two damage, you'd put a die on it, like on a number two, so everyone knows that it's now a plus two damage.
Phil: So I think, as opposed to Slay the Spire, I think they could bring Slay the Spire out tomorrow.
<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, because that's a more traditional card game.
<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, again, also Velacho, you would need lots of calculators.
<v SPEAKER_>It would take so long to compute every single round, it would be so boring.
<v SPEAKER_>The game is doing it so fast that you're not even paying attention.
<v SPEAKER_>But yeah, in real life, you would have to be like this times this times this times this plus this plus this.
<v SPEAKER_>And you have to have the correct order, because if you multiply something early on, you're going to have a less number than if you multiply it later in the chain when there's more numbers.
<v SPEAKER_>So again, it's a math game, really.
<v SPEAKER_>So you have to manipulate even the order of your cards just to get the highest multiplication bonus you could get.
<v SPEAKER_>So it's fun.
<v SPEAKER_>It's fun when it's all done in the background and you don't have to worry about the math.
Phil: What about anything else to add?
<v SPEAKER_>Please, at least try the game.
<v SPEAKER_>There's a demo, I'm sure, out there.
<v SPEAKER_>Play it, be addicted, buy it.
<v SPEAKER_>And then you'll become like me.
<v SPEAKER_>You become like a religious convert.
<v SPEAKER_>And you just want to spread the word of Bellator to everybody, because it is that good.
<v SPEAKER_>It is so much fun.
Phil: Well, one thing we can always say about D Beta is his enthusiasm has no bounds.
Phil: We really appreciate that here at The Game Under Podcast, especially when Tom Towers is on assignment in Sri Lanka.
Phil: So thank you very much for joining us.
Phil: Thank you.
Phil: I'm not sure if Tom's back in a couple of weeks, but if not, we'll have you back on, because I'm really wanting to talk to you about Final Fantasy VII.
<v SPEAKER_>Oh, yes, please.
<v SPEAKER_>Absolutely.
<v SPEAKER_>That's another one I could talk about forever.
Phil: Yeah, and I know Tom would want to talk to you about Buldur's Gate III as well.
<v SPEAKER_>I just finished it.
<v SPEAKER_>That is the greatest RPG I've ever played in my life.
<v SPEAKER_>Don't say that.
<v SPEAKER_>And I am not a big fan of that kind of RPG.
<v SPEAKER_>That was more Final Fantasy, but that game, that game, and on a year where Zelda came out, I just want to say, like last year, last year was insane for video games.
<v SPEAKER_>Like I got to say, what a year.
<v SPEAKER_>And I am the biggest Zelda fan, and Tears of the Kingdom is fantastic.
<v SPEAKER_>Never in a million years would I thought another game that same year would surpass Zelda for me, and Buldur's Gate III is just, it's a once in a lifetime like that.
<v SPEAKER_>Unbelievable.
<v SPEAKER_>What a game.
Phil: Sorry, I was on the side.
<v SPEAKER_>Gaming has been real good lately.
<v SPEAKER_>That's all I feel.
<v SPEAKER_>I feel like we're in a really good time right now.
<v SPEAKER_>There's some bad stuff, but overall, there's been some amazing video games out.
Phil: We should all be happy.
Phil: I think the hope is coming from the indie sector, and include Larian in that descriptor.
Phil: Did you play the Dark Alliance games back in the PlayStation era?
<v SPEAKER_>Yes, that's about my only...
<v SPEAKER_>That's the only thing I did.
<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, only Avenue into Buldur's Gate, and even Dungeons and Dragons really was that game.
<v SPEAKER_>Because I like action games, so that was more my thing.
<v SPEAKER_>I would rent it at Valkbuster back in the day, and I played it.
<v SPEAKER_>It was a fun little hack and slash game.
<v SPEAKER_>But that's all I knew.
<v SPEAKER_>I knew of Buldur's Gate, because if you're a video game fan, you know that Searge holds a lot of weight on Buldur's Gate and
<v SPEAKER_>But I wasn't a PC gamer, so it was never in my realm.
<v SPEAKER_>But I knew of it.
<v SPEAKER_>And I knew if you wanted to play one of those games, like Buldur's Gate was the gold standard at the time.
<v SPEAKER_>And now...
Phil: I've never played Buldur's Gate other than the Dark Alliance series on PlayStation and PSP, which I was completely addicted to and absolutely loved.
Phil: What about Diablo?
<v SPEAKER_>I've played Diablo.
<v SPEAKER_>I'm not the biggest fan of Diablo.
<v SPEAKER_>Those loot games, if they have better mechanics, it's just Diablo is so much hack, hack, hack, hack, hack.
<v SPEAKER_>You're just walking around like slashing people over and over.
<v SPEAKER_>I know you could create crazy builds and it's doing a lot of area damage and all sorts of stuff.
<v SPEAKER_>But if you're not playing with others, which I'm a single player gamer most of the time, but it's just a lot of just walking around just slashing little enemies over and over again.
<v SPEAKER_>To me, that gets repetitive.
Phil: D-Vader live from Florida.
Phil: Thank you so much for joining the show.
Phil: I look forward to having you on in future shows.
Phil: There he goes, D-Vader.
Phil: Thanks for listening to The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: We've been doing this since so there's lots of resources covering games.
Phil: From that time till now, on our website, gameunder.net, if you'd like to submit a question, use our comment section from our homepage.
Phil: Thanks again for listening to episode of The Game Under Podcast.
Phil: I'm Phil Fogg, your solo host, until Tom Towers returns.
Phil: We miss you, Tom.