Game Under Podcast 151

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Phil rides solo this show and goes over the news before talking about Princess Peach Showtime, Slay the Spire, Suika Game and the new Inazuna Eleven early access demo.

0:00:26 Intro
0:01:02 News
0:13:28 Princess Peach: Showtime!
0:27:30 Suika Game
0:34:30 Balantro
1:07:24 Buldur’s Gate 3
1:09:45 Outro

Transcript:
Phil: Hi everyone, and welcome to Episode of The Game Under Podcast, Australia's longest-running video game podcast.

Phil: I'm Phil Fogg.

Phil: This episode, I am not joined by my co-host, Tom Towers.

Phil: He's on assignment.

Phil: So you'll only have me to listen to as I talk about the news and also some games I've been playing.

Phil: I've got my final impressions of Princess Peach Showtime.

Phil: Also some games that perhaps you haven't heard of that you should, including Suica Game.

Phil: Also talking about Slay the Spire, which is a game that I've been wanting to get to for several weeks, but just hasn't fit into the show.

Phil: So let's kick it off with the news.

Phil: Story number one, Tekken's director.

Phil: Young people don't like fighting games much.

Phil: This is credit to VGC.

Phil: Tekken director Harada reckons those pesky youngins don't like fighting games as much as people his own age, because unlike team-based games, there's nobody else to blame when you lose.

Phil: This was recorded on Shuei Yoshida's PlayStation podcast, which I've got to look up.

Phil: He says, It seems to me that the way fighting games are played has evolved over time with the generations.

Phil: In Japan and probably in most of the world, my generation is a big one.

Phil: It makes up a good chunk of the population, and it made our society a competitive one.

Phil: If you applied to a school or a job, there was always a lot of competition.

Phil: Because of this, people in my generation prefer definitive outcomes, a clear winner and loser.

Phil: This applies to folks in and around their s.

Phil: But he said, most young people nowadays are the opposite.

Phil: They're really eager to engage in one-on-one showdowns.

Phil: Plus, because fighting games pit you against a single opponent, you have to accept all the responsibility.

Phil: You can't blame anyone else.

Phil: In team-based shooters, when players win, they can say that they've won because of their own contributions.

Phil: But when they lose, it's because they got matched with a lousy team.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, I don't know that there's much to be gained by slamming any sort of demographic or group, particularly when the game is selling quite well.

Phil: It can't all be to -year-old people who like to win or lose.

Phil: So I'm not quite sure this is true.

Phil: It does sound like something my age would say if I wasn't well-informed, but perhaps he's looking to blame someone other than himself for the game's poor sales.

Phil: I don't know, I don't know.

Phil: I have no idea where this would come from, but it certainly made it into our news this week because it's the sort of thing that usually wouldn't make it through a PR rep.

Phil: So there you have it.

Phil: Young people don't have the fighting spirit.

Phil: Story number two, Blizzard Boss.

Phil: Players should be able to tip devs.

Phil: And again, credit for this goes to VGC.

Phil: A bit of a misleading headline because he's a former Blizzard boss, but Mike Ibarra said that when he beats a game, there are some that just leave me in awe of how amazing this experience was.

Phil: I've often thought, I wish I could give these folks another or $because it was worth more than the initial $and they didn't try and nickel and dime me.

Phil: Ibarra was quick to point out in his post, which was on X, that most will dislike the idea.

Phil: And as a society, we are tired of tipping and everything else, but I view this as different from a pressure to tip type scenario.

Phil: He caught a lot of flack for this and I can't say that I can agree with him getting criticized for this kind of statement because at some point, at least in the last years, multiple times, I've finished a game that I've been playing for hours, hours, hours, where I've spent $on and have often gone, I want to give the studio some more.

Phil: It also comes up when me and Tom had that Twitch sale of the century where I think we paid $or $or something for some social movement and then we ended up with like free games on twitch.io.

Phil: I've played games on there, loved it and then basically because I got it for free, when I wanted to replay it, I'd go buy it on Steam or buy it on Switch because I do want to show the developer that I appreciated what they gave me.

Phil: So I don't know about the mechanics of it and I don't think that he's seriously proposing it as an idea.

Phil: He's just saying, look, I've often thought, I wish I could give these folks another or $

Phil: He's not saying how it should be implemented if the money would go directly to the actual people that develop the game or would just end up in the publisher's pile of money.

Phil: I don't think people like the idea of tipping major publicly traded companies for releasing a good product that has tremendous value, but if I look at something like Stardew Valley, which was a game that I got plenty of time out of, my family's got plenty of time out of, I've had no problem double dipping and buying it for multiple generations.

Phil: And a game that I'm gonna be talking about later, Slay the Spire, you know, I had it on PlayStation needed to play it away from there.

Phil: I had no hesitation to go out and pay for it again on the Switch.

Phil: So there's plenty of ways to show that you can appreciate a developer, most times through buying the DLC or just checking out their next game.

Phil: Or, you know, an old fashioned email or tweet back to the developer saying how much you appreciated the game.

Phil: You know, that goes a long way.

Phil: And I work in a company, one of the companies I work in, and you know, from time to time, we get feedback from consumers, including today, which is just completely unwarranted, thoughtful appreciation for our product.

Phil: And it means a lot that people take time out of the day just to express thanks.

Phil: So, you know, again, I'm not gonna bash Mike Ibarra over the head for this one, as many people have.

Phil: We'll just move on to story number three.

Phil: Speaking of Blizzard, it says that, or at least one of the spokespeople said that they're still in talks about a console version of World of Warcraft.

Phil: The legendary MMO turns this year.

Phil: I would have thought it was at least five or years more than that.

Phil: And again, credit for this story goes to VGC.

Phil: I do scour the internet.

Phil: I don't just sit on VGC, but our top three stories happen to come from them this week.

Phil: Speaking to VGC, Holly Longdale, the VP and executive producer of World of Warcraft, discussed life after becoming part of Microsoft.

Phil: Asked about a console version of the game, she replied, well, of course we still talk about it.

Phil: We're gamers.

Phil: I don't think anything is out of the realm of possibility, but we don't have anything to talk about right now.

Phil: She was asked this question in BlizzCon in where she called it a complicated question.

Phil: And that no doubt was complicated because Microsoft had not yet purchased Activision Blizzard.

Phil: We've got these expansions we're excited about, but yeah, of course it would be very insincere to say we're not like, of course, talking about it before adding, we are Microsoft now, which is kind of a funny statement.

Phil: Also, when you consider that the headline says that Blizzard is still in talks about a console version, it's not like they have to negotiate this with Sony or whatever.

Phil: If they want to get it onto a console, Microsoft can do it.

Phil: And I was thinking, well, why hasn't it come onto a console?

Phil: When you consider years ago in I think we're probably, yeah, most definitely still on PlayStation era or Xbox era consoles, and there was just no way of really doing it.

Phil: It's difficult to recall, but getting online with a console, with a unified account, playing a game that would tie in and be able to be played on PC as well was just something that hasn't been achievable up until the last few years.

Phil: And you might struggle back to remember that it wasn't until games like Rocket League came along and accidentally showed, or even I think Borderlands accidentally showed, or maybe it was an epic game, that cross-play was possible.

Phil: So these kinds of things just from an online infrastructure wasn't there.

Phil: And also I think in it probably would have been a bit of a challenge to run an MMO.

Phil: Well, certainly you couldn't because it wasn't really online, and you're relying on massive multi-players to be participating.

Phil: But also from just a hardware, graphical, technical perspective, it would have been difficult for those consoles to be running it.

Phil: So yeah, there was all sorts of barriers years ago to why World of Warcraft would not be on consoles, but I think all of those barriers now have been knocked down.

Phil: And certainly with Microsoft owning Blizzard, this should be an easy one.

Phil: And I don't see why it wouldn't be something that they can introduce now, and if they release a new console or whatever else, they can roll that over and have it be a persistent game online.

Phil: It's not like it has to be a singular release considering the architecture of the consoles.

Phil: Anyway, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Phil: And again, if you want to give us any of your thoughts, the easiest way to do that is to go to gameunder.net and just leave a comment in the comment section.

Phil: It doesn't require you to log in or give your ID or anything like that.

Phil: And you can just drop in a comment there from the episode that you're listening to.

Phil: And this one is

Phil: Final news story for today.

Phil: Roblox tightens up developer requirements.

Phil: Credit for this one goes to gameindustry.biz.

Phil: Listeners of our last episode would have heard all about the kind of trouble that Roblox got itself into when it was talking about child exploitation and of course how they're not exploiting children developers.

Phil: This was covered by a really quick and ham-fisted PR release that basically said, we're not exploiting children and on and on.

Phil: But now you've got some solid requirements that have been put in place by Roblox.

Phil: Now, they're not going to turn around on a dime just because a couple of idiots on podcasts or on Reddit two weeks ago gave them curry for their silly comments.

Phil: So I have to believe that this has been in the pipeline for some time, and basically they've turned the keys to activate it.

Phil: Roblox has announced that it has moved from an application-only process for marketplace sellers.

Phil: Users must now adhere to four requirements to be eligible to sell content.

Phil: Among them, creators must be ID verified and subscribe to the platform's subscription service of $or $per month.

Phil: I'm assuming $must be the developer pack.

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: Marketplace sellers must also follow Roblox community standards and marketplace policies.

Phil: Well, that's just a eula.

Phil: There's nothing special about that.

Phil: And then their spokes hole said, these new eligibility requirements will enable more creators to sell items in the marketplace, giving them a new way to earn and users more choice in the items they can purchase, while also allowing Roblox to effectively enforce its marketplace policies and prevent violators from circumventing moderation.

Phil: I guess getting the money from them wouldn't prevent any of that, so they're relying on the ID verified, which I don't know what they're going to do there.

Phil: I guess you scan in a driver's license and then you upload a selfie.

Phil: I know that's what some motels require you to do these days that don't have a reception.

Phil: So maybe that's what they're doing.

Phil: In any case, I think this is a step towards a positive thing.

Phil: If Tom was here, he'd probably say it's not a positive thing, because this is going to drop out a whole bunch of creators and creative people who don't want to submit to these kinds of privacy regimes.

Phil: And I can see that.

Phil: And if a kid is developing, obviously they're just going to, as they've been using their parents' credit cards, they're going to, you know, borrow their credit's driver's licenses and just ask their dad or mom, hey, can you do this for me?

Phil: Because this is my hobby, and if that was my kid, I'd say absolutely.

Phil: So yes, I would violate the terms and conditions of Roblox.

Phil: Go ahead and arrest me.

Phil: Okay, so that's it for the news.

Phil: And so it's time for what we've been playing.

Phil: The first game I'll be talking about this episode is Princess Peach Showtime for the Switch.

Phil: Now, why would I play this?

Phil: I hear you say.

Phil: This is a developed, published game, developed by Goodfeel, who's headed up by director and I'm sorry, it's, I believe, Etsunobu Ibushi and he was the designer of a game called Goemon.

Phil: This is his first directorial role in over years.

Phil: And for that alone, I thought it was interesting enough to play Princess Peach Showtime.

Phil: We've seen developers like Yuji Naka come back and, you know, be in charge of a game after a long period.

Phil: And, you know, those games have felt really old and out of date.

Phil: So I was interested in that respect.

Phil: He's got his own company called Goodfeel, and he was working as a programmer and game designer at Konami, working in the Castlevania franchise.

Phil: So before he set up his own company.

Phil: And he has worked, well, not him, but his company has worked on Yoshi's Woolly World, Kirby's Epic Yarn, and Wario Land's Shake It and more.

Phil: So my notes about this, basically, you play as Princess Peach, and she's partially voiced.

Phil: And I'd like to talk about that a little bit later, but with some text.

Phil: And the game follows the transformation theme of other Nintendo Switch games, like Kirby and Mario Odyssey.

Phil: You know, in those, you know, you throw your hat on someone, and you take on the characteristics of that person.

Phil: That was in Odyssey.

Phil: Obviously, in Kirby, you inhale a car, and now you're a car.

Phil: You know, that sort of thing.

Phil: So this is something that I don't know if they're just...

Phil: I don't know what this is about, if they're reusing an engine or something.

Phil: I just haven't seen it this prevalent in a single console generation for a single console maker before, or publisher, game developer.

Phil: In this one, in each stage, you play a new role, which could be a tip of the hat back to Super Mario Bros.

Phil: which I don't know if you remember, but decades after its release, Miyamoto revealed it was a stage play and not actual events in the Mushroom Kingdom.

Phil: Now, of course, the first game where Peach was a playable character for the first time was Super Mario Bros.

Phil: which was a dream, recalled by Mario.

Phil: Again, not real events, and here I sound like Comic Book Eye.

Phil: Which raises a question.

Phil: If Super Mario Bros.

Phil: was real and and were not real life events, was Nor Mario Land the next real events in Mario's life?

Phil: But they're probably not in sequential order, and now I'm sounding like a huge nerd.

Phil: Anyway, Peach rocks up to this theater to see a show, and someone is stealing stuff, and that's why the show can't go on and everyone is walking around depressed and bummed out.

Phil: So Peach goes, well, this isn't good.

Phil: I've got to do something.

Phil: So basically, she can go into, if you can imagine like a hub world, she can go into one of four different theaters inside this theater, if you think of like a multiplex movie theater, and she'll go into the first one or the second one or the fourth one.

Phil: It doesn't matter.

Phil: You can do them in any order, but you can't go outside of the first floor of this theater.

Phil: And so you can play as cowgirl peach, ninja peach, chef peach, ice skater peach, and all of those levels are unlockable in any order.

Phil: And so to describe the game, just to take a big step back, it's basically a D platformer is how we would have used to describe this.

Phil: So fully rendered polygonal assets, but you're playing them from a D perspective, which is really interesting because this has been made on the Unreal Engine, which I thought was just interesting anyway.

Phil: But if you think of Unreal games like Arkham Asylum, where they use the Unreal Engine, but then at the end of the game, spoilers for a, I guess, -year-old game, they had the Scarecrow level where Batman is walking in D.

Phil: And that was a revelatory type scene where he was doing this puzzle where he's walking around the corners of a building while Scarecrow is, you know, moving a spotlight.

Phil: And then as he gets to a corner, the whole building turns, and then you see it again, you know, from a front-on perspective or a D perspective platformer style.

Phil: So, and that was like, oh, wow, you know, you can use Unreal for this kind of platformer as well.

Phil: So, yeah, so that was interesting.

Phil: So anyway, this is a D platformer, and you progress from left to right, basically doing simple, you know, platforming things, wall jumps, double jumping, and usually the B button or the action button is doing whatever that person would do.

Phil: So as a cowgirl, you're using a lasso, which is fantastic.

Phil: As a ninja, you're using nunchucks.

Phil: As a chef, you're doing different kinds of things.

Phil: You're decorating cakes.

Phil: So that was sort of a weird little Mario Party type sidestep to it.

Phil: And as an ice skater, I think you're just, no, you're not jumping, you may be twirling.

Phil: And then as Peach, just as a normal Peach, if you're walking around, you use the action button to fling your ribbon, and it will bring spark to life.

Phil: So if there's a dead tree, she can just do it, and it brings the tree to life.

Phil: Now, that's still on stage, so you've got to remember that everything she's doing, she's acting a role.

Phil: So it's not like she's been transported to some magical land where she can do anything.

Phil: So anyway, you progress through the levels.

Phil: Some of the levels have major bosses, some of them don't.

Phil: From a challenging perspective, well, we'll get into that.

Phil: So basically, after you unlock the bottom floor, you encounter a major boss, I guess, and more of the plot is revealed.

Phil: It doesn't really matter.

Phil: The story does not really matter in this game, as you would imagine.

Phil: But then, you know, the basement opens up, and then as you unlock those, the second story unblocks.

Phil: So much like my experience with Kirby last year, I found it to be a lot more content than I first thought, because judging by the back of the box, I figured, okay, it's just basically this floor.

Phil: You unlock it, then you'll go upstairs and kill a boss or whatever.

Phil: But no, you go up again to another floor.

Phil: That's the second floor again, where they introduce even more characters for Peach to play.

Phil: And then you go up yet another floor, where there's even more levels to play.

Phil: So I feel like I'm towards the end of the game.

Phil: I've got to say that I had not unlocked all of the first floor when I sat down yesterday.

Phil: It was a rainy day, so I sat down around o'clock.

Phil: It's like, okay, I'll just go ahead and beat this game.

Phil: I was still playing it at, I'm going to say, that night with a break for dinner.

Phil: So, and had not yet finished it, so I can't imagine more than an hour and a half left.

Phil: So, yeah, I'm going to say there's probably about six to seven hours of game play for someone who's an experienced gamer.

Phil: Again, this game is for kids.

Phil: So, you know, this is not something that I think is a must play for every Nintendo fan.

Phil: But I've got to say, it is really good.

Phil: And the details in this game are, as you would imagine, Nintendo worthy.

Phil: There's fantastic attention to detail in this game.

Phil: Lots of creative things that they're introducing right to the very end, much like the Kirby game from last year.

Phil: And in terms of challenge, yeah, I mean, for the most part, you're going to walk through this if you're an experienced gamer.

Phil: However, you know, I've gotten to the bosses, and they've got some pretty good bosses.

Phil: I'd say Mario Odyssey level bosses, maybe even Mario Galaxy level bosses, some of them.

Phil: There's good pattern recognition and some good difficulty going on.

Phil: So just a solid Nintendo game.

Phil: And the other reason why I bought this game is because my daughter wanted it after playing the demo.

Phil: And, you know, it's got a female protagonist, which, you know, is not something that comes along in every game every day, especially one that's suitable for a younger person.

Phil: So I appreciate that.

Phil: And on that topic, I should say that, you know, I've got to say she started playing when she was four and beating easier platformer games.

Phil: She's now six and playing this.

Phil: She still had some challenges with it, but, you know, with just basically sticking to it, she's been able to overcome most things with minimal help from me.

Phil: One thing that I've always thought was silly was that how, or a barrier to entry for children that cannot yet read, is how Nintendo doesn't have voice acting for its characters because kids basically get to the written word component of a game and then give up or are frustrated because they don't know what's going on.

Phil: And I, you know, I was really, you know, I didn't like this a lot when she was four and playing Paw Patrol games and things like this because it was frustrating for her.

Phil: So, but the thing is, like with this game, and I think with most of Nintendo's games, what I really value right now is that she's reading, right?

Phil: So she's now able to read what the characters are saying, which is fantastic.

Phil: So as a parent, I'm happy that she's getting more reading exercise, as well as hand-eye coordination, puzzle solving, and all the rest of it out of this video game.

Phil: But it's kind of like, well, you know what?

Phil: If you can't read, you probably don't have the physical acuity to actually play this game.

Phil: I don't think that if you were of an age where you cannot read, you're not going to be able to play this game anyway.

Phil: And I'm not talking about adult literacy.

Phil: I'm talking about the target audience for this game, which is children.

Phil: There's no point in giving this game to a four-year-old.

Phil: A four-year-old cannot play this.

Phil: A four-year-old is not most.

Phil: They're not going to be able to get their head around doing wall jumps and all the rest of it.

Phil: So in a way, I give Nintendo a pass because I do like the fact that it's teaching my daughter to read or get better at her reading.

Phil: And again, if I'd given her this game when she was four, she's going to be frustrated for reasons other than not being able to read.

Phil: It's going to be because she couldn't play the game.

Phil: Having said that, I'm not giving Nintendo a free pass.

Phil: I think they've got to look at the age group for their games and deliver content that's appropriate for that age group.

Phil: So I would have to imagine that most people playing, most children playing the Zelda games right now are probably the next step up.

Phil: They're going to be eight, nine, maybe in that kid's age.

Phil: And they already don't need additional reading practice.

Phil: So give Link a voice.

Phil: And I believe that Nintendo can do it because they've got a tremendously efficient pipeline.

Phil: They've demonstrated that phenomenally over the Switch's life that they're able to release games without having a seven-year development cycle like everyone else has to have and still deliver high-quality, fantastic games that, guess what, aren't broken when they launch.

Phil: This game did not require a patch, for example, and most of their games don't.

Phil: So yeah, my overall experience with the game is that, you know, I'm not going to put the qualifier on it for a kids' game.

Phil: I'm just going to say for a game, for someone who likes D platformers, say someone who likes Clonoa, then you will not be disappointed with this game.

Phil: From a value proposition, you know, it's a short amount of play time.

Phil: So if you're ultra rich and, you know, this is not a lot of money for you, you pick it up, buy it, play it.

Phil: Great.

Phil: It does have replay value.

Phil: You can go back through and pick up more collectibles and things like that.

Phil: And there are other things that will happen.

Phil: There's other reasons for you to continue playing.

Phil: But, you know, not that much.

Phil: I think it's a thin veneer that they put there just to to say, hey, you know, when the game's over, it's not over.

Phil: But, yeah, all in all, will I give it a dreaded out of ?

Phil: A meaningless score that says it's good but not great.

Phil: I'm going to give it a recommends for people who like D platformers, people who like Peach in particular, you're going to like it.

Phil: There's no other Nintendo characters in there, at least not up, as I said, I'm probably about an hour away from the final, if not even that.

Phil: I haven't seen any other Nintendo characters in it.

Phil: It's a bunch of Pikmin-looking type characters.

Phil: No, that's not even true.

Phil: Okay, so on to the next game.

Phil: Now, this next game I discovered through Retro Gamer Magazine, which I think recently turned years themselves.

Phil: And Retro Gamer is a fantastic read, no matter where you are in the world.

Phil: It is written in Britain, so there is some references, or a fair amount of references, maybe % to British-type computers from the s that aren't really relevant to the rest of the world.

Phil: But other than that, hey, for magazines, it's pretty slim right now.

Phil: And they do a fantastic job.

Phil: One of the articles that they have is a feature that basically says Future Classics.

Phil: So this is a game that will one day feature on the cover of Retro Gamer.

Phil: But it's a game that you can play right now.

Phil: And I had never heard of this game, and it's pretty obscure.

Phil: So the story behind it, the name of the game is Suica Game.

Phil: That's S-like Sam U-I-K-A game.

Phil: And this is a game that is developed by a company called Aladdin X.

Phil: Now if you go to Aladdin X's website, you won't see that they're a video game developer.

Phil: They make like projectors and big screens and HDMI cable adapters and things of that nature.

Phil: And for one of their trade shows, they developed, one of their programmers developed this game, Suica Game, which is a puzzle game.

Phil: And they thought it was so good that they decided to release it on the Switch.

Phil: Now, you can get it on the Switch for less than $

Phil: And it is incredible.

Phil: It is an incredible puzzle game and worthy of retro games' attention.

Phil: Basically, if you can imagine Tetris, but there are, let me count, two, four, six, eight, ten, eleven fruits.

Phil: And the first five fruits will drop.

Phil: So you can drop these small fruits.

Phil: So imagine a strawberry, a cherry, grapes, an orange, and a grapefruit, right?

Phil: Or a lemon and a grapefruit.

Phil: And you drop these, these things will drop, and you get to position them in left and right.

Phil: So imagine a D game where you've got a rectangular, much like Tetris, but instead of blocks, you're dropping these round fruit.

Phil: Now if you drop a cherry on top of another cherry, it'll form a strawberry.

Phil: If you drop a strawberry on top of another strawberry, it creates a grapefruit, and on and on.

Phil: You get up to sort of like this large apple, and then ultimately, the ultimate goal is to get two watermelons, which is the largest one.

Phil: Now the problem is, the receptacle in which you're dropping these fruit is really only the size of about maybe three watermelons in a stretch.

Phil: So you've got a lot of garbage that builds up around it.

Phil: Now I've gotten one watermelon once.

Phil: So that's just, and I've played this game probably hours.

Phil: So yeah, the graphics are super cute.

Phil: So you've got this super simplified Japanese cartoon type fruit.

Phil: And it is a game that is easy to learn, but a challenge to master.

Phil: And it's hypnotic.

Phil: This is a game that my daughter plays, my wife plays.

Phil: They can't stop playing it.

Phil: They just love it.

Phil: And again, only available on Switch.

Phil: It was initially released in and then worldwide in

Phil: It is also on iOS, I should say.

Phil: I've been saying it's only on Switch.

Phil: It is released on iOS.

Phil: And I've got to give some credit where it's due.

Phil: This was a Chinese mobile game.

Phil: So this is based on something else, but it's not as good.

Phil: I am almost reluctant to send you to a website where you can play it through a browser because it does not capture much of the spirit of the game whatsoever.

Phil: And so you can go to suica.gg, for a dumbed down version of it.

Phil: But again, this is less than $

Phil: I think it's less than $on the Switch.

Phil: And it's a must-buy, must-play game.

Phil: It only has one song that plays over and over again.

Phil: And the secret to this is that it's physics based.

Phil: And this is not something that you pick up on right away, but you can play the system a little bit so that when you, say, join two grapefruits, there's a little pop, a little explosion that moves all the things around it.

Phil: If you add then the next two things, like two oranges together, that pop together, it'll create a bigger pop, a bigger explosion, and things will sort of pop up a little bit.

Phil: It's not like popcorn where it'll pop explosively.

Phil: It's just a little pop and then things will move around.

Phil: And when those things happen, that's your chance to quick drop fruit as it's coming because you'll start to fill some of those gaps.

Phil: So there is some strategy to it.

Phil: And then also if you've got two similar fruits that you want to join, you can start dropping stuff on part of the side of the screen there and sort of nudge them over together so that when there is a pop, they'll join together and connect.

Phil: I'm not explaining this probably as well as a YouTube video of it will do.

Phil: This game rose to prominence because it's very streamable.

Phil: And so there's a channel out there that's been streaming this for quite some time that's quite funny.

Phil: And I know it's watchable because I'll just sit there and watch my kid play it.

Phil: And if someone else is watching me play, they'll go, oh, you should have put that there or you should have put that there because everyone's got their own way of figuring out how you should be doing it properly.

Phil: There is a two-player mode.

Phil: There's no online, though you can, you know, your scores are kept.

Phil: They keep track of the best score of the day, the week, the month.

Phil: And so there's not a lot of competition there over in the two-player mode.

Phil: But as a pick up and play drop game, it is right up there.

Phil: If you've played threes or any of those kinds of games, you'll see the charm of it.

Phil: And it has a unique thing going for it, which is not just the cuteness and the simplicity of making fruit bigger, but also that physics component as well.

Phil: So it's a game I thoroughly recommend.

Phil: I give it a out of

Phil: If you have a Switch or I would recommend it.

Phil: I can't speak to the iOS experience.

Phil: I haven't downloaded it.

Phil: But yeah, certainly something that is worth checking out and playing.

Phil: And now listeners, we might have a bit of a change in audio quality as Dee Vader has agreed to come on and talk about a hit game called Bellatro.

Phil: So we'll be jumping over to a different recording mechanism.

Phil: So just hang in there.

Phil: Dee Vader, thank you for joining us.

Phil: Of course, I'm not talking about our Lord Vader.

Phil: I'm talking about the man from Florida who has been playing...

Phil: How long have you been playing video games, Dee Vader?

<v SPEAKER_>Since I've been three years old, which is like ..

<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, years ago or so.

Phil: Yeah.

<v SPEAKER_>I was a little kid.

<v SPEAKER_>I was an NES kid.

Phil: You played a lot of games too.

Phil: You chew through a lot, which is fantastic, and a kindred spirit, I dare say.

Phil: You were so passionate about a game that I have been hesitant to start playing because everyone I've heard talking about it has said basically it's like a curse once you recommend it to someone because it's the only thing that they will play.

Phil: And even casuals are like, can't stop talking about this game.

Phil: The game is Bellatro.

Phil: If you haven't heard about it from now, it's developed by a one-man developer in Canada called Local Funk.

Phil: Hasn't done anything before this, at least nothing that's been published, and the publisher is a company called Playstack, which also doesn't even have a Wikipedia entry.

Phil: It's available for everything, and by everything I mean Mac OS, Switch, PlayStation and Windows, Xboxes, you name it.

Phil: And it came out, I think, yeah, it came out worldwide in March, March st, and the reason why I haven't picked it up, even though it was on sale, on the Switch sale this weekend, was because even though I have watched lots and lots of poker on TV, I've won a few poker games.

Phil: I've played poker in video games, but for whatever reason, I don't understand how to play poker.

Phil: There's a part of my brain that either doesn't want to learn it.

Phil: For years, I played Magic the Gathering, a card game which is tenfold more complicated.

Phil: But when it comes to poker, like when I go to a casino, what's your go-to game?

Phil: Do you play craps or what's your go-to?

Phil: How's roulette different from craps?

Phil: Oh yeah, craps, they just throw it on the velvet.

Phil: Roulette, they get the, yeah.

Phil: Very similar games.

Phil: I mean, the game's a chance.

Phil: You have no impact on it, right?

Phil: When I go to a casino, I love playing blackjack, right?

Phil: I love blackjack, and I win at it.

Phil: It's a fun time.

Phil: But I can't get my head around poker.

<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, yeah, okay, well, I mean, poker is obviously the next level up of blackjack, I would say.

<v SPEAKER_>And well, the good news about Velatro is it's not a poker game.

<v SPEAKER_>That's the trick about Velatro.

<v SPEAKER_>It's not at all.

Phil: Just to frame it too, it's a rogue-like deck building game.

Phil: A single-player rogue-like deck building game, which for most people is like saying you've got cancer with AIDS.

Phil: If someone described this game to me, I'd never play it, but I'm addicted to Slay the Spire.

Phil: Have you played that?

<v SPEAKER_>Love that game, yes.

Phil: Because that's a rogue-like deck building game, right?

Phil: I love that game, and actually that's the next game I'm going to talk about in this episode.

Phil: But I went to buy this, I'm like, but I just don't understand poker.

Phil: So it's not an act.

Phil: You don't know poker.

<v SPEAKER_>It uses poker as a base.

<v SPEAKER_>So if you know the hands of a poker, like of a poker game, you understand the basic framework of velatro.

<v SPEAKER_>So it just uses that as to familiarize the public with what they're going for.

<v SPEAKER_>So they just use that as a base.

Phil: I don't understand what a flush is, or a small blind, or a big blind, or a boss blind.

Phil: Even though, again, when I was single and I didn't have cable, I would watch every time the Stupid Poker League came on, I'd watch it.

Phil: They didn't do a good job of teaching the game.

Phil: Yeah, probably.

<v SPEAKER_>Yeah.

Phil: So now, I'm just going to let you go then.

Phil: So you at least have to have a basic level of hands.

<v SPEAKER_>If you know the hands, I mean, they'll teach you, but do they teach you?

<v SPEAKER_>I mean, I guess.

<v SPEAKER_>There's a chart.

<v SPEAKER_>So you'll see a chart of like how, you know, the easiest hand, which is just a high card, and then pair, two pair and so on, and goes up and up and up to like Roy and Flush.

<v SPEAKER_>So depending on the higher level of the hand you get, the more points you get.

<v SPEAKER_>In reality, Volatro is a math game.

<v SPEAKER_>It's a road deck math game, and you're trying to reach a high score, and you do it by manipulating cards and values of those cards to get a high multiplication score, basically.

<v SPEAKER_>And I know once you say, oh, it's math, oh, I don't want to play that.

<v SPEAKER_>Trust me, the way they do it in this game is brilliant, and it is so addicting.

<v SPEAKER_>All it took was the demo.

<v SPEAKER_>I was reading through forums and stuff for recommendations during one of the Steam Fest demos that they did on February, where they have tons of demos, and everyone raving about Volatro.

<v SPEAKER_>I'm like, sure, I'll give it a shot.

<v SPEAKER_>It's free.

<v SPEAKER_>I played that for about three hours straight.

<v SPEAKER_>Just the demo, which was just the beginning little portion of the game.

<v SPEAKER_>And that had me hooked.

<v SPEAKER_>So the second that game went on sale, I bought it immediately.

<v SPEAKER_>So the trick is, yeah, so it starts off like poker.

<v SPEAKER_>You have your hands, but you're not playing another human.

<v SPEAKER_>You're playing against a scoring system.

<v SPEAKER_>So it has two basic score sets.

<v SPEAKER_>There's a card score and a multiplier.

<v SPEAKER_>So this card score is basically the number on the card gets added to a little, you know, like the score.

<v SPEAKER_>So say you have a nine, you get nine points.

<v SPEAKER_>You got an eight, eight points, seven, so on.

<v SPEAKER_>And face cards are ace is

<v SPEAKER_>And then you have to build a hand out of like, you get dealt seven cards, and then you have to build a poker hand out of it.

<v SPEAKER_>So if you have a pair, let's say it's two tens, now you have points.

<v SPEAKER_>Plus each hand has a different set base level that you start with.

<v SPEAKER_>So let's say a pair is points and a multiplier of two.

<v SPEAKER_>But if you do a flush, it's points and a multiplier of four.

<v SPEAKER_>So that's your base, and then you add on to it as you use better cards.

<v SPEAKER_>That's how it starts.

<v SPEAKER_>And then they introduce the joker system, which is where all the variables come in.

<v SPEAKER_>The joker cards are about in the game, and you earn them as you play.

<v SPEAKER_>This is where the rogue-like aspect comes into play.

<v SPEAKER_>As you go deeper, you'll unlock more and more jokers.

<v SPEAKER_>And then these jokers add all kinds of variables to the number system.

<v SPEAKER_>So one of them will say, if you do a flush, you get a plus to multiply.

<v SPEAKER_>One of them will be plus card points if you use just face cards or something like that.

<v SPEAKER_>There will be ones that manipulate how you could earn your hands.

<v SPEAKER_>One will say a straight could be...

<v SPEAKER_>A straight is basically if you have straight numbers,

<v SPEAKER_>So that's a straight.

<v SPEAKER_>Five cards in a row.

<v SPEAKER_>But you have a joker that allows you to skip numbers in between, so a straight could be a a a and so on.

<v SPEAKER_>So it makes it much easier to get that one.

<v SPEAKER_>So it is still a game of chance because it's random cards being dealt.

<v SPEAKER_>But the whole goal of the game is to reduce the chance and increase your odds.

<v SPEAKER_>And you do that through the manipulation of the jokers and a bunch of other types of cards that come into play.

<v SPEAKER_>So at the end of each match, which is essentially the match is, you have a goal of scored reach.

<v SPEAKER_>So in the beginning, it's simple, chips, they say.

<v SPEAKER_>So the chips are, as I said, it's the base, the card score and a multiplier.

<v SPEAKER_>So if you start the game, you have a flush and it's points.

<v SPEAKER_>Let's say your cards add up to like more, so you get

<v SPEAKER_>Multiply that by four, you got points.

<v SPEAKER_>And then you're close to the and you have a certain amount of hands to get that score in.

<v SPEAKER_>So normally it's four hands and three discards.

<v SPEAKER_>So if you don't like the hand you got, the seven cards you got, you can discard up to five cards at a time.

<v SPEAKER_>They'll reshuffle five more cards.

<v SPEAKER_>And then after you have played five hands or four hands, if you have not reached that point total, you lose.

<v SPEAKER_>If you do reach the point total, you get some chips.

<v SPEAKER_>You go on to the next round, and then the store opens up.

<v SPEAKER_>At the end of each little round is a store, and the store has a bunch of different things on sale that could help you in your quest to get more and more points.

<v SPEAKER_>At each level, the points go up, and they start going up exponentially, like a lot.

Phil: So this store is like a soft currency store.

Phil: It's not like hard, in-game currency.

<v SPEAKER_>In-game currency, yes.

<v SPEAKER_>So you start off with four gold chips, and then if you beat the current level, you get a certain base amount of chips, and if you had a lot of hands left over, you didn't use all your hands, you get a chip for each one.

<v SPEAKER_>And then there's bonuses if you had an interest bonus, if you held enough chips, you get a bonus for holding certain chips.

<v SPEAKER_>And then there's a lot of cards that earn you money as well.

<v SPEAKER_>So then the store has like little packs, and these packs could be tarot cards.

<v SPEAKER_>These tarot cards manipulate your deck.

<v SPEAKER_>So all of a sudden, what would be a normal card deck, you could add, you could turn one card into another card, you could manipulate it.

Phil: Is this what they call the arcanas?

<v SPEAKER_>Yes, basically, yes, those cards.

Phil: So have you played Magic the Gathering?

<v SPEAKER_>Not Magic, but I played Slay the Spire, and what was the other one?

<v SPEAKER_>Hearthstone.

Phil: So would it kind of be like a sort of enchantment?

<v SPEAKER_>Yes, absolutely.

<v SPEAKER_>These are enchantments.

<v SPEAKER_>So you could turn cards into different things.

<v SPEAKER_>One card, you could make a card a wild card.

<v SPEAKER_>So instead of being a certain suit, which is one of the four suits, you know, a heart, a spade, a diamond, it could be any of them.

<v SPEAKER_>So it's perfect for a flush.

<v SPEAKER_>So if you're looking for flushes, you want more of those wild cards.

<v SPEAKER_>Or you could manipulate, you might get a bonus card that lets you turn three cards into just one type, like a diamond, or three cards into a heart.

<v SPEAKER_>And you could hold on to that.

<v SPEAKER_>So if you enter a match, and you're desperately looking, I need a flush just to get out of this, or I lose, and you have a card that manipulates three cards to turn into another, perfect.

<v SPEAKER_>And it stays that way in your deck for the rest of the game.

<v SPEAKER_>So you're basically manipulating your deck into what you want.

<v SPEAKER_>So a lot of times, and that goes hand in hand with the jokers that you get.

<v SPEAKER_>Those jokers are the big ones.

<v SPEAKER_>Those are the ones that stay with you, and they have the biggest input into how the scoring happens.

<v SPEAKER_>So like certain jokers will be, like I mentioned before, you'll get a plus multiplier if you use a flush.

<v SPEAKER_>And now you're incentivized to try to get flushes.

<v SPEAKER_>Or another one would be to get straights.

<v SPEAKER_>Or three of a kind gives you plus points.

<v SPEAKER_>And then some jokers will start doing crazy stuff, like add multipliers to the end of...

<v SPEAKER_>Once it adds up all the numbers, it will multiply it by two.

<v SPEAKER_>But only if you do certain conditions.

<v SPEAKER_>So you might have to sell a certain card that you might not want to.

<v SPEAKER_>There's always a push and pull.

<v SPEAKER_>There's always something you have to give up to gain a lot.

<v SPEAKER_>And that is the magic of the game.

<v SPEAKER_>As the levels go on in the store, as different things come out in the store, you never know what you're going to get.

<v SPEAKER_>So at the beginning of the run, I'm never sure what kind of run is this going to be.

<v SPEAKER_>Am I going to be looking for a lot of three of a kind?

<v SPEAKER_>Am I going to be maybe going all face cards?

<v SPEAKER_>Maybe I'm going to go a flush deck, or I'm going to just try to have two suits like the whole way.

<v SPEAKER_>So different things happen.

<v SPEAKER_>And the strategies that change as the matches go on is just brilliant.

<v SPEAKER_>There's so much tug and pull, like, oh man, if I add this card, I might lose this amount of points, but I might gain this in the long run because it's easier to get those cards and so on.

<v SPEAKER_>And then each match, at the end, there's like three, they divide it into what's called eight antes.

<v SPEAKER_>And antes is like, let's say it's like a ladder.

<v SPEAKER_>And then there's three matches in between each rung of the ladder.

<v SPEAKER_>So the first two are pretty basic, and then there's a boss match.

<v SPEAKER_>And then the boss match has some type of challenge to it.

<v SPEAKER_>So it will be like, say, all diamonds are, what's called, not thrown out, but they're debuffed.

<v SPEAKER_>So you don't get any points or any of the enchantments you got from a diamond card in that hand.

<v SPEAKER_>Or it will be a double ante, which is double score.

<v SPEAKER_>So you have to double the score that you would normally get.

<v SPEAKER_>Or it would be one that says you have to sell a joker card before you could actually gain points.

<v SPEAKER_>So things that you have to do these, these, you have to watch out for those boss, boss, because they could really mess up your game.

<v SPEAKER_>Let's say you're going for all flush decks.

<v SPEAKER_>There's one of them that says you cannot use the type of cards that you use, the type of hand that you use the most.

<v SPEAKER_>Now you're screwed.

<v SPEAKER_>You built your entire thing around one hand and now you get this boss that's like, you got to try something else.

<v SPEAKER_>So you always need to have contingency plans.

<v SPEAKER_>And there's even some cards that allow you to re-roll the boss.

<v SPEAKER_>So you could kind of find those if you're lucky.

<v SPEAKER_>But there's so many strategies and so many variations.

<v SPEAKER_>And that's just the base game.

<v SPEAKER_>When you're picking the game that you want to play, there are different decks, and each deck has a different starting point.

<v SPEAKER_>So they start off normal, like, you know, the classic deck.

<v SPEAKER_>Maybe you get one extra hand per match.

<v SPEAKER_>Maybe you get one extra discord.

<v SPEAKER_>Maybe you get a little bit more money at the start.

<v SPEAKER_>But then there are some that have a deck where it's all just no face cards.

<v SPEAKER_>It's just all number of cards.

<v SPEAKER_>And then there's a deck that's all face cards.

<v SPEAKER_>There's a deck where you don't get jokers, but you have your limited.

<v SPEAKER_>They give you, like, one special joker that eats other jokers.

<v SPEAKER_>And then you have to, it's hard to explain because you have to see all the different variations.

<v SPEAKER_>But the way they continuously give you new ways to play is unbelievable.

<v SPEAKER_>For such a, what seems like such a simple concept, it just goes on and on and on, and the depth is never ending.

<v SPEAKER_>And then there's a challenge mode too, which they give you a mode where half the cards that are dealt are face down.

<v SPEAKER_>Another one where it's, there's a total many challenges.

<v SPEAKER_>Some that you start off, you have no money.

<v SPEAKER_>Nothing you do earns money, but you get these jokers that if you hold on to them, and then you sell them at a certain time, they get more money.

<v SPEAKER_>You have to manage those joker cards the entire way, or you have no money at all.

<v SPEAKER_>And it's just brilliant ways to constantly change the way you're handling your deck.

<v SPEAKER_>And that is the brilliance of that game.

<v SPEAKER_>You could play it a hundred times and always get a different, like, just outcome.

<v SPEAKER_>And it goes on and on.

<v SPEAKER_>I'm not even getting close to the higher levels.

Phil: I would believe it.

Phil: So does it scratch the same itch as Slay the Spire?

Phil: Or is it sort of different but same?

<v SPEAKER_>Because it's not a deck builder in that you're building a strategy.

<v SPEAKER_>Well, Slay the Spire is more like this one, because that one also was one round at a time, right?

<v SPEAKER_>Like, once you finish a run, you start over.

<v SPEAKER_>Or you didn't...

Phil: Yeah.

<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, OK.

<v SPEAKER_>I'm thinking more, Hearthstone is more the classic tech deck builder where you assemble a deck and you kind of, you know, you use that deck that you made to play multiple games.

<v SPEAKER_>No, this is like Slay the Spire.

Phil: That leads me to a question.

Phil: So in, do you, like in a rogue, in a true roguelike, you keep none of your progression, you die, and that's it.

Phil: In Slay the Spire, as long as you can keep the runs going, you have access to the cards that you've been accumulating during that run.

<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, yeah.

Phil: And then if you die, the next time you play, those cards that you discovered in previous runs are at least in the spectrum that will fall into the random availability that would never have been there if you had just picked up the game today and started playing it for the first time.

<v SPEAKER_>Exactly.

<v SPEAKER_>That's how it is.

<v SPEAKER_>So you start off with a certain amount of jokers that are not available, and then there's a lot of jokers that need to be unlocked as you play.

<v SPEAKER_>The moment you unlock them, depending on all sorts of conditions you have to reach to unlock them, that's a whole other game on itself to try to get those.

<v SPEAKER_>But once you unlock them, yes, they're there for all future runs.

<v SPEAKER_>They'll be part of the random loadout.

<v SPEAKER_>That you might get.

Phil: Yeah, which is what I like, because the thing that always drove me away from roguelikes was there's no progression.

Phil: And as you'd know from our previous discussions, I like games where you're building on your progress, because otherwise, what are you doing?

Phil: It's basically like playing Tetris every day.

Phil: Yeah, it's fun while it lasts, but you haven't got really a reason to come back other than to experience that Twitch-type thing.

Phil: Whereas with these kinds of roguelikes, I guess, there's a reason to come back because there's that familiarity and it's like, oh yeah, that's the card that I unlocked last time.

Phil: It's popping up again randomly, but at least it's in that world.

Phil: And in Slay the Spire, they have the Daily Challenge, which I like to go in because I see these really powerful cards that I've never even seen yet at my current level of play.

Phil: And you said there's like a daily type challenge?

<v SPEAKER_>No, that's one thing they could add, a daily challenge.

<v SPEAKER_>There's challenges in that it's just a challenge mode.

<v SPEAKER_>It's just a separate mode where it is a crazy condition to the match.

<v SPEAKER_>And then as you unlock of them, at first you have and then if you do those you unlock the super challenges.

<v SPEAKER_>And they get absolutely insane.

<v SPEAKER_>They just, you have to really, really just be good at manipulating the decks and to get some of those done.

<v SPEAKER_>And of course, have luck.

<v SPEAKER_>There is a lot of luck involved.

<v SPEAKER_>So that is, if you're not a fan of R&D, just randomization, it's still at its core, it is a card game.

<v SPEAKER_>So you're going to have that random.

<v SPEAKER_>I do not know, maybe people have looked this up.

<v SPEAKER_>If there is a background formula that helps you maybe one way or another, or if it's true random.

<v SPEAKER_>I can't tell.

<v SPEAKER_>I don't know.

<v SPEAKER_>I've had all kinds.

<v SPEAKER_>I've had strings of great luck and horrible strings of bad luck.

<v SPEAKER_>So I can't see any formula.

<v SPEAKER_>It seems random to me, but who knows.

Phil: Reading about the game's development on Wikipedia, which is a good read in and of itself.

Phil: It's about a guy who quit his real job a year before releasing it on the early build on Steam.

Phil: He didn't play any roguelikes.

Phil: He was avoiding them as much as possible.

Phil: But somehow the game is also based on a Chinese card game called Big Two, which has been around forever.

Phil: When I say Chinese card game, I'm not talking about something that Tencent released last year.

Phil: This is, you know, I presume...

Phil: I'm going to open a new tab here.

Phil: Fact checking.

Phil: Yep, it's a game from hundreds of years ago.

Phil: So it's not like he based it on a game, a Chinese web browser game by Tencent.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And it's just...

Phil: But my question was, and that...

Phil: Before you even said it, I was going to ask you, do you feel like you're being gamed?

Phil: All right, but it doesn't sound like it.

<v SPEAKER_>No, no, I enjoy it.

<v SPEAKER_>I enjoy...

Phil: No, it's not that...

Phil: If this game was being made by EA or Activision, you'd go in...

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You'd go into it going, are they letting me win?

Phil: Are they giving me a good time now?

Phil: No, I don't see why not.

<v SPEAKER_>This is all earned, I feel.

Phil: Okay, there's no monetization.

<v SPEAKER_>Absolutely not.

<v SPEAKER_>No, none.

<v SPEAKER_>And they're doing free updates.

<v SPEAKER_>He's updating it constantly.

<v SPEAKER_>So you're going to be adding new content and new challenges.

<v SPEAKER_>And adjusting.

<v SPEAKER_>There's a big update coming that's just changing rules around.

<v SPEAKER_>Obviously, the community is a little bit back and forth on some of them.

<v SPEAKER_>It's changing, I guess, some of the end game stuff.

<v SPEAKER_>I don't know.

<v SPEAKER_>Some people say it makes it easier.

<v SPEAKER_>Some people say it makes it harder.

<v SPEAKER_>Maybe that means that's perfect.

<v SPEAKER_>That means he got the right balance where it's half and half.

Phil: Exactly.

<v SPEAKER_>So there are changes coming, but he's continuously working on it.

<v SPEAKER_>And there seems to be no plans for a DLC or any paid.

<v SPEAKER_>It's just going to be updates for now.

Phil: Critical reception of this has been uniformly positive.

Phil: As with Slay the Spire, it sold nines and nineties and ninety fives out of a hundred.

Phil: And just beyond that, the word of mouth.

Phil: The game dragged in a million dollars of revenue within the first eight hours of it being available because it was in early access.

Phil: It had a big streaming, you know, some popularity there with some streamers.

Phil: So it's easy to see why it would succeed on that level.

Phil: And it's great also that it's done by a single developer.

Phil: And you think of other games like that, certainly you've got your archetypes like Joe Blow, Jonathan Blow with Braid and Witness.

Phil: You've got Toby Fox, I think is responsible for a game I can't remember anymore.

Phil: Yeah, Undertale, yep.

Phil: And then you've got Sensible Gorilla, I think he's the guy who does Dirty Valley.

Phil: I'm actually going to look that up just to see what the guy's real name actually is.

Phil: But it's great to see these single, cause you know, if you make a million bucks in the first hours, that's just revenue of course.

Phil: I said Sensible Gorilla, the guy's name is actually Concerned Ape.

<v SPEAKER_>You're close enough.

Phil: Sensible Gorilla, Concerned Ape.

<v SPEAKER_>You're in the same track, you're good.

Phil: So could this game be brought, what I don't understand though, is like the guys that do No Man's Sky and Yacht Club Games that do Shovel Knight.

Phil: Like, I don't understand those guys, because they've got like real companies that need to run, but like if you bought the game like eight years ago, they're still giving you like free content.

Phil: You know, you could have bought it on a Wii U, if you go and update it, it's going to have like all the latest stuff.

Phil: Yeah, I did too.

Phil: I was like, well, I updated on everything I could.

Phil: Can you explain that?

Phil: I can understand a single guy studio where it's like, hey, yeah, this is my game, and this is basically all I need to do for the next years.

Phil: But these...

<v SPEAKER_>It has to be the never ending sales.

<v SPEAKER_>Like, I'm guessing that one game is still selling, and as long as it still sells, that is their product that they're selling.

<v SPEAKER_>So like No Man's Sky, that's one of the biggest turnarounds, I think we've seen them a long time.

<v SPEAKER_>Because when that thing came out, that was hated.

<v SPEAKER_>It was a mess, it was a disaster, it was the biggest joke, and they have turned that around year in, year out.

<v SPEAKER_>And yeah, I'm pretty sure every time a sale comes around, they get...

<v SPEAKER_>I don't know, I'm sure they get plenty of sales.

<v SPEAKER_>And by keep adding it, it keeps the attention on that game.

<v SPEAKER_>Like you're always...

<v SPEAKER_>You're gonna go through video game websites when the latest No Man's Sky update comes out, the trailers are there, the guides come up, it gets attention over and over and over again.

<v SPEAKER_>Those games have to be making money constantly.

Phil: And that's the difference about this video game market and the one that we were familiar with say years ago even.

Phil: Like you bring out...

Phil: Let's just look at a simple analysis of Grand Theft Auto for the PlayStation

Phil: You brought out a game, it worked, you didn't get to patch it, you didn't get to sell DLC, there was no online mode.

Phil: That's it.

Phil: And those guys busted their busts to get the next game out two years later.

Phil: And the next one out another two years later.

Phil: But where it falls apart for me, like you look at No Man's Sky, and I bought it cash money for the PlayStation format whenever it got released.

Phil: Played it for a couple of hours and went, don't like it, never played it again.

Phil: Have I been tempted to go back to it?

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Certainly not on whatever PlayStation format I bought it on.

Phil: You'd want to play it on PC, I imagine.

Phil: But then you look at a game like Cyberpunk, and that game makes me angry because that was another big turnaround.

Phil: But they had no right to release the game in the condition that it was released in.

Phil: It was delisted from PlayStation stores.

Phil: They just said, no, you can't release it.

Phil: It doesn't work.

<v SPEAKER_>I have never seen that.

<v SPEAKER_>I don't think we've ever seen that.

<v SPEAKER_>Of any major game like that.

<v SPEAKER_>It was crazy.

<v SPEAKER_>They released a product so bad, the store owner, the console owner had to be like, no.

<v SPEAKER_>You don't pass the seal of quality or whatever.

<v SPEAKER_>Remember that, the Nintendo seal of quality.

<v SPEAKER_>They are actually a seal of quality, and it did not pass.

Phil: And crazy.

Phil: And say what you will about shit games like Mace Griffin on the Xbox or Cent Blood on the Sand, which is actually a pretty fun game, or what was the Silicon Knights game that they were going to make three of and then they didn't?

<v SPEAKER_>Oh, Two Human.

Phil: Two Human.

Phil: You know, people will crap all over those games, but hey, excuse me.

Phil: They released them and they worked.

<v SPEAKER_>Yes.

Phil: And they were never patched.

Phil: And you guys are coming out with a top retail game with all of the hurrah with Cyberpunk.

Phil: And I'm not begrudging the guys at Witcher.

Phil: They're fantastic guys.

Phil: I mean, they set up GOG, which is a great game.

Phil: Witcher is a great game.

Phil: I'm not here to disparage them particularly, but you know, it's like I'm just really angry about top tier AAA games coming out and being completely, absolutely broken, requiring a patch.

Phil: It's unforgivable, and yet they've been forgiven.

<v SPEAKER_>I mean, I'm part of the problem.

<v SPEAKER_>I bought Cyberpunk

<v SPEAKER_>Now I bought it on a PS

<v SPEAKER_>I got it on PC.

<v SPEAKER_>I'm sorry.

<v SPEAKER_>I got it on PC.

<v SPEAKER_>It was the last gen versions that were the broken ones, really.

<v SPEAKER_>If you had a PSversion of Cyberpunk, it wasn't too bad.

<v SPEAKER_>But if you had the PSit should never have been released for the old consoles.

<v SPEAKER_>It doesn't make sense because CD Projekt Red is their own publisher.

<v SPEAKER_>I don't understand what happened there.

<v SPEAKER_>I understand if it came from above, some megacorporation that doesn't care about anybody and was like, release it for the old consoles.

<v SPEAKER_>Why would they, understanding that their game cannot run on older consoles, release that?

Phil: It is, I think, perhaps a corruption because they are publicly traded, I think, wherever they are.

Phil: At least I know that they have shareholders because it was going to be a shareholder lawsuit.

Phil: So, because they disparaged the whole brand.

Phil: But if you wanted to look at two sides of a coin or a Jekyll and Hyde type situation, look at the generosity of GOG and the spirit of GOG which is basically born out of their experience of buying games on cassette and copying them at swap markets in the country that they are from because, which I think is Poland, forgive me if I'm wrong, where the whole thing about GOG, not being DRM, not being DRM free was like, hey, the spirit of where we learnt and discovered and explored games was basically you share games, so we're not going to have DRM on GOG.

Phil: And then you look at the complete opposite, where EA will ship a game with a lot of bugs, like the Star Wars third-person shooter.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: And they'll make it right pretty quick, but they won't release a completely broken game on a platform that cannot support it.

Phil: So I don't know why I'm so animated about that.

Phil: I guess, again, because of my internet poverty location here, that sort of stuff hurts more because, you know, I see my friends playing these games, I'm like, yeah, I want to play the game, but I just can't afford to be patching games like that in terms of my internet allowance.

<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, this is the trend of where video games are going, and it is the death of physical, and we kept talking about it.

<v SPEAKER_>You know, physical has this little niche right now that's still selling well, but clearly, physical, even as it is now, is not real.

<v SPEAKER_>Like, you buy a game, the disk is like a key.

<v SPEAKER_>You put in the disk into the system, and all of a sudden, you're downloading the other, like, gigs of the game, or a patch that's like gigs long, and that's the real game.

<v SPEAKER_>Like, you don't have anything in that box anymore.

<v SPEAKER_>Like, there's gonna be a future.

<v SPEAKER_>Everything that's come out in the last, like, three years, most of them, on a console and a physical box, let's say you find it in a garage sale years from now.

<v SPEAKER_>You just buy a PSand find that thing, you plug it in without any, there's no more internet updates, because whatever score is down, that game is not gonna run.

<v SPEAKER_>It's not gonna be like an old game that you put it in and there's the game.

<v SPEAKER_>No, nothing is gonna happen.

<v SPEAKER_>No, nothing.

<v SPEAKER_>That's ridiculous.

Phil: And with Wii U going offline last couple of weeks ago, everyone's like, oh, well, who cares?

Phil: Well, I sort of care, because now my copy of Splatoon and my copy of Mario Maker is worth nothing, because who's gonna want to buy that?

Phil: I'm almost at the point where I want to bundle up my Wii U with all the games and just sell it to someone for bucks, because I'm like, well, what's the point?

Phil: Here, just get it out of my house, so I can put another thing in its place.

Phil: But enough being a negative, Nelly.

Phil: Could this game, the game that we're talking about, which is Bellatro, available everywhere, critically acclaimed, rogue-like deck builder, could this be brought into the real world as a card game?

Phil: No.

<v SPEAKER_>No.

<v SPEAKER_>It's too fast, there's too many variables, and there's too many crazy things going on with the multipliers and the jokers to make it...

<v SPEAKER_>You could turn some cards into glass.

<v SPEAKER_>Obviously, you don't need...

<v SPEAKER_>Maybe in a real life, you would need stickers or little chips or something to designate a card as changed into something else.

<v SPEAKER_>In the game, it happens instantly.

<v SPEAKER_>A card that you turn into glass now gives you times two multiplier every time you use it, but it might break one or four times.

Phil: So how that would work in Magic, for example, if you had a regular character, you could add a flying enchantment to it.

Phil: So you tuck the card behind it, so now everyone knows it's a flyer.

Phil: And then if it has plus two damage, you'd put a die on it, like on a number two, so everyone knows that it's now a plus two damage.

Phil: So I think, as opposed to Slay the Spire, I think they could bring Slay the Spire out tomorrow.

<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, because that's a more traditional card game.

<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, again, also Velacho, you would need lots of calculators.

<v SPEAKER_>It would take so long to compute every single round, it would be so boring.

<v SPEAKER_>The game is doing it so fast that you're not even paying attention.

<v SPEAKER_>But yeah, in real life, you would have to be like this times this times this times this plus this plus this.

<v SPEAKER_>And you have to have the correct order, because if you multiply something early on, you're going to have a less number than if you multiply it later in the chain when there's more numbers.

<v SPEAKER_>So again, it's a math game, really.

<v SPEAKER_>So you have to manipulate even the order of your cards just to get the highest multiplication bonus you could get.

<v SPEAKER_>So it's fun.

<v SPEAKER_>It's fun when it's all done in the background and you don't have to worry about the math.

Phil: What about anything else to add?

<v SPEAKER_>Please, at least try the game.

<v SPEAKER_>There's a demo, I'm sure, out there.

<v SPEAKER_>Play it, be addicted, buy it.

<v SPEAKER_>And then you'll become like me.

<v SPEAKER_>You become like a religious convert.

<v SPEAKER_>And you just want to spread the word of Bellator to everybody, because it is that good.

<v SPEAKER_>It is so much fun.

Phil: Well, one thing we can always say about D Beta is his enthusiasm has no bounds.

Phil: We really appreciate that here at The Game Under Podcast, especially when Tom Towers is on assignment in Sri Lanka.

Phil: So thank you very much for joining us.

Phil: Thank you.

Phil: I'm not sure if Tom's back in a couple of weeks, but if not, we'll have you back on, because I'm really wanting to talk to you about Final Fantasy VII.

<v SPEAKER_>Oh, yes, please.

<v SPEAKER_>Absolutely.

<v SPEAKER_>That's another one I could talk about forever.

Phil: Yeah, and I know Tom would want to talk to you about Buldur's Gate III as well.

<v SPEAKER_>I just finished it.

<v SPEAKER_>That is the greatest RPG I've ever played in my life.

<v SPEAKER_>Don't say that.

<v SPEAKER_>And I am not a big fan of that kind of RPG.

<v SPEAKER_>That was more Final Fantasy, but that game, that game, and on a year where Zelda came out, I just want to say, like last year, last year was insane for video games.

<v SPEAKER_>Like I got to say, what a year.

<v SPEAKER_>And I am the biggest Zelda fan, and Tears of the Kingdom is fantastic.

<v SPEAKER_>Never in a million years would I thought another game that same year would surpass Zelda for me, and Buldur's Gate III is just, it's a once in a lifetime like that.

<v SPEAKER_>Unbelievable.

<v SPEAKER_>What a game.

Phil: Sorry, I was on the side.

<v SPEAKER_>Gaming has been real good lately.

<v SPEAKER_>That's all I feel.

<v SPEAKER_>I feel like we're in a really good time right now.

<v SPEAKER_>There's some bad stuff, but overall, there's been some amazing video games out.

Phil: We should all be happy.

Phil: I think the hope is coming from the indie sector, and include Larian in that descriptor.

Phil: Did you play the Dark Alliance games back in the PlayStation era?

<v SPEAKER_>Yes, that's about my only...

<v SPEAKER_>That's the only thing I did.

<v SPEAKER_>Yeah, only Avenue into Buldur's Gate, and even Dungeons and Dragons really was that game.

<v SPEAKER_>Because I like action games, so that was more my thing.

<v SPEAKER_>I would rent it at Valkbuster back in the day, and I played it.

<v SPEAKER_>It was a fun little hack and slash game.

<v SPEAKER_>But that's all I knew.

<v SPEAKER_>I knew of Buldur's Gate, because if you're a video game fan, you know that Searge holds a lot of weight on Buldur's Gate and

<v SPEAKER_>But I wasn't a PC gamer, so it was never in my realm.

<v SPEAKER_>But I knew of it.

<v SPEAKER_>And I knew if you wanted to play one of those games, like Buldur's Gate was the gold standard at the time.

<v SPEAKER_>And now...

Phil: I've never played Buldur's Gate other than the Dark Alliance series on PlayStation and PSP, which I was completely addicted to and absolutely loved.

Phil: What about Diablo?

<v SPEAKER_>I've played Diablo.

<v SPEAKER_>I'm not the biggest fan of Diablo.

<v SPEAKER_>Those loot games, if they have better mechanics, it's just Diablo is so much hack, hack, hack, hack, hack.

<v SPEAKER_>You're just walking around like slashing people over and over.

<v SPEAKER_>I know you could create crazy builds and it's doing a lot of area damage and all sorts of stuff.

<v SPEAKER_>But if you're not playing with others, which I'm a single player gamer most of the time, but it's just a lot of just walking around just slashing little enemies over and over again.

<v SPEAKER_>To me, that gets repetitive.

Phil: D-Vader live from Florida.

Phil: Thank you so much for joining the show.

Phil: I look forward to having you on in future shows.

Phil: There he goes, D-Vader.

Phil: Thanks for listening to The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: We've been doing this since so there's lots of resources covering games.

Phil: From that time till now, on our website, gameunder.net, if you'd like to submit a question, use our comment section from our homepage.

Phil: Thanks again for listening to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I'm Phil Fogg, your solo host, until Tom Towers returns.

Phil: We miss you, Tom.

Game Under Podcast 150

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Episode 150 - Robloxing Day
0:00:23 Intro
0:09:10 News
0:35:28 Roblox - A full analysis and review
1:23:22 Phil’s Questions for Tom from Other People’s Podcasts

Transcript:

Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Today is a milestone episode for us, which is why it has taken us so long to get it out.

Tom: We put in a lot of work for this very special episode.

Tom: So prepare yourselves for a mind-blowing experience.

Phil: Well, I had to build this tunnel, first of all, from which to record episode because I thought, you know, maybe we have some echo in here.

Phil: It just might, you know, bring some pomp and ceremony to it.

Tom: The plan was to record in person, and you were going to tunnel here from Queensland to Victoria, but you didn't quite make it, did you?

Phil: No, no, I got halfway to Adelaide.

Phil: I found a lot of vocals, so that is a positive.

Phil: Speaking of Adelaide...

Tom: So we have a better budget going forwards.

Phil: Well, for sure, definitely.

Phil: I think a soundboard is in the future, especially since I just found out that Audacity has a free one built in, which will save me about Australian dollars, which is, you know, like American dollars, I think.

Phil: Now, but how many Australian...

Phil: What is the exchange rate from the Australian dollar to the...

Phil: I'm assuming in Sri Lanka, they use rupees?

Tom: Rupees, yes.

Phil: Yes?

Phil: How many rupees can you get for one AUD?

Tom: Thousands of them, I think.

Phil: So is a burrito in Sri Lanka worth about rupees?

Tom: Perhaps a million rupees.

Phil: You'll have to report back.

Phil: If you can find a...

Phil: First of all, if you can find a burrito in Sri Lanka, because as we were recording this, you've got one leg out of the country, basically.

Tom: I do indeed.

Tom: So you're saying that as a Game Under segment, we're going to have to have an international search for burritos.

Phil: I think so.

Phil: If you can go into the hurdy-gurdy streets of Sri Lanka, what's the capital of Sri Lanka, the big city?

Tom: Colombo.

Phil: Colombo.

Phil: Yes, yes.

Phil: And how's the political unrest?

Phil: Is okay there?

Phil: Because a notable prime minister was kicked out last year, and there was videos of people swimming in his swimming pool.

Phil: Are you hoping to visit the swimming pool?

Phil: Do you have open access?

Phil: Do you have an inside line to the president's swimming pool?

Tom: I hope so.

Phil: Well, you know.

Tom: I hope it's still a tourist attraction.

Phil: Probably should have done your research, perhaps a little better.

Phil: I understand there's a castle.

Tom: I think there's still an extreme travel warning for Sri Lanka at the moment.

Phil: Are you kidding?

Tom: No.

Phil: So the state of the park...

Tom: Maybe not extreme, but I think it says exercise extreme caution or something along those lines.

Phil: Well, you should always express extreme caution when traveling to the equatorial Sri Lanka.

Phil: I understand there's a castle there that has a lot of spider monkeys that you can interact with.

Tom: I think there are spider monkeys everywhere.

Phil: Everywhere?

Tom: Not just in the castle.

Phil: Well, you'll be right at home because after years of recording this podcast with me, you have some experience with that level of intellect.

Tom: As we can tell from this introduction.

Phil: Yeah, that's it.

Phil: Okay, so you're out of the country.

Phil: Anything else you want to add to that before we go into the news?

Tom: The passport application was an interesting process because I assume with the aim of virtue signalling to the anti-migration crowd, but also in taking a large number of migrants, the process of getting an application if you are born in Australia to one, even if you've got an Australian parent who was also born in Australia, you've got to provide so much bullshit to prove that you are a citizen.

Tom: Whereas not long in the past, if I was my sister's age, I wouldn't need to do half the shit I had to do.

Tom: And the only logical reason behind it as far as I can tell is indeed virtue signalling.

Phil: Well, I mean, you know, there's the whole secure war on security or whatever it is, war on terror.

Phil: I'm sure that's when it got bad, right?

Tom: No, this was a change that came about in the late s.

Phil: Okay, well, that's okay.

Phil: So before the war on terror, because I'll tell you how I got my application, my passport.

Phil: I walked into my local rural post office.

Phil: I filled out a form.

Phil: I took a photo.

Phil: I mailed it in.

Phil: I got my passport.

Phil: I did actually have to send them a copy.

Phil: I did actually have to send my original birth certificate, which they mailed back to me.

Phil: But besides that, that was it.

Tom: But only your own birth certificate.

Phil: Yeah, of course.

Phil: Because it shows that I was born here.

Tom: I had to send not only my own birth certificate, but also my mother's birth certificate.

Phil: You're kidding me.

Tom: No.

Phil: Well, that's weird, man, especially since you've got a pretty straightforward name, you know, Towers.

Phil: But, you know, I would have thought it had been pretty straightforward, but wow.

Phil: Not these days.

Phil: So anything else to talk about with the passport application other than it taking a lot of time?

Phil: And that is a ridiculous request.

Tom: Other than that, it was rather simple.

Tom: But having had interactions with the NDIS and Centrelink, I have to say, all of the things that normal people complain about when it comes to bureaucracy are actually a welcome relief from dealing with the truly punitive parts of Australian bureaucracies.

Phil: Yeah, it's probably a walk in the cake for you.

Tom: Which is that classic Australian expression.

Tom: That's probably why you were able to so easily get your passport.

Tom: You walked into the post office and said, this is going to be a walk in the cake, isn't it, mate?

Tom: Too bloody right!

Phil: Do you know who Dukenby Mutombo is?

Phil: Well, he played for the Atlanta Hawks.

Phil: It's a famous quote for him.

Phil: He was saying that it was going to be a walk in the cake.

Tom: That's actually why you're a Jewel citizen with America.

Phil: It's a fantastic malapropism because obviously there's a walk in the park.

Phil: It's going to be like a walk in the park.

Phil: And then you've got, it's going to be a cake walk.

Phil: It is probably the most brilliant malapropism I've ever heard, other than the ones I've spat out during this last episodes.

Tom: Got any examples of your own?

Phil: No, no, I'm sure our listeners may.

Phil: Anything else?

Tom: All I can think of is just errors rather than malapropisms.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And you know what a malapropism, where the name came from that?

Tom: Where?

Phil: Well, okay, well, there was a radio serial in Britain, Britain, which is where English is created.

Phil: And one of the comedic-

Tom: Britain, where English was created.

Phil: I think you can find it on a bumper sticker.

Phil: And one of-

Tom: I think that's one of their questions on their visa application too.

Phil: This is also on their visa application, which is what's the origin of the word, it's not etymology, what's the etymology of malapropism?

Phil: And there was a radio show, a radio serial where a lady malaprop was constantly doing mixed metaphors and things of the nature.

Phil: And so that's where it actually came from, that these things became malapropisms because a character named Lady Malaprop was saying these kinds of things, like Dikembe Mutombo, which is probably what he had on his mind when he said that.

Tom: Does this actually have anything to do with a radio show?

Tom: Because apparently it's from a play.

Phil: Oh, okay, a play.

Phil: Okay, well, thank you for correcting me because now you're so smarter than me because you've got Wikipedia.

Phil: Well, this is the sort of content that listeners come here for.

Phil: I think we can catch up on some of our other trademark banner if that's okay and hit our news segment.

Phil: You've been following the news lately, Tom?

Tom: Not even slightly.

Phil: Okay, well, I've got news that isn't being played elsewhere, as is our usual situation.

Phil: First news story, Square Enix reassigns top Dragon Quest producer.

Phil: They put him in charge of mobile games.

Phil: And the credit to this story goes to Bloomberg.

Phil: The top producer of Square Enix flagship Dragon Quest is stepping down from the role following delays in developing the next installment of the popular series.

Phil: Yu Miyake, who long oversaw the role-playing franchise since has been moved to the company's head-up the division of the company that does smartphone games.

Phil: The move is part of a large-scale reorganization.

Phil: Square Enix is overhauling its game development pipeline under a new president who's vowed to reverse flagging sales of both big-budget console games and smaller mobile titles.

Phil: Yasuki Sato, who's going to replace him, is Yasuki Sato, who's best known for his hit game, Nier, Automata.

Phil: Or at least, he's the strongest candidate to take the helm.

Phil: And so, since becoming president last year, the Kiryu has streamlined game production by shutting down many unannounced projects and placing checks on producers' influence.

Phil: So, this guy has been working on Dragon Quest as the leader of the Dragon Quest franchise since which is a long time.

Phil: It's like years.

Phil: And he's basically been given that Japanese corner office to go and sit in and do nothing, which is to be in charge of their smart time.

Tom: You say to go sit there and do nothing, but wasn't their mobile game Wizards and Dragons or something like that more successful than anything they've done in years?

Phil: I don't think so.

Phil: I mean, that was years ago.

Phil: At the time, it was.

Phil: It was very popular at the time, but there's nothing bigger for Square Enix.

Phil: Well, Square Enix, obviously, Final Fantasy is their biggest thing now and has been since they joined together.

Phil: And it has been an interesting history with Enix, promulgating Dragon Quest and Square doing Final Fantasy.

Phil: Them coming together, that is like the biggest merger of all times, creatively, for JRPGs.

Phil: Yeah, so, I mean, now, I have bought...

Phil: I love the Dragon Quest series.

Phil: I've played a fair few of them, but not all.

Phil: Mostly through the DS re-imaginings of the originals.

Phil: And they're all really fun.

Phil: I think Dragon Quest Rocket Slime was in my top of the decade, definitely, for the DS.

Phil: I'm a huge fan.

Phil: This guy's been around for ..

Phil: What did I say?

Phil: years.

Phil: It's a big change.

Phil: And in Japan, when someone's been around that long, they don't fire them.

Phil: They just give them a mean job, which you would counter.

Phil: But yeah, this is a major news story that I haven't seen getting much play anywhere.

Tom: And we should also add that apparently, Yuji Naka, who was sentenced to months in jail for insider trading, tweeted that, finally, I was hoping he would be gone soon because he's the kind of person who would submit a note with a lie with evidence to a court of law.

Tom: I've never met him, but the new president might be a good person.

Phil: So he's tweeting that from jail.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Tom: He's got a suspended sentence, of course.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Phil: Oh, okay, that's right.

Phil: He just has to be a good boy.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Read that first part again.

Tom: Finally, I was hoping he would be gone soon because he's the kind of person who would submit a note with a lie with evidence to a court of law.

Phil: We don't get this sort of shade.

Phil: Oh, man, that is awesome.

Phil: That is awesome.

Phil: So maybe this guy is a bit of an a-hole.

Tom: Possibly.

Phil: Speaking of a-holes, story number two, Life is Strange Studio, Deck accused of toxic workplace culture.

Tom: Are they called Deck now?

Phil: They're called Deck

Phil: What were they used to be called?

Tom: Don't Not.

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

Phil: They were Don't Not.

Phil: Anyway, credit to this one goes to IGN's Rebecca Valentine, which I thought was a character in Resident Evil.

Phil: Early last year, while working on the next entry of Life is Strange, a few developers at Deck stumbled upon something that didn't belong in their game.

Phil: You want to guess what that is?

Phil: What wouldn't belong in Life is Strange?

Phil: A Republican.

Phil: Close.

Phil: Nazi symbols.

Phil: I'm joking.

Tom: I was right.

Phil: I'm joking.

Phil: Republican.

Tom: I'm not joking.

Phil: Developers noticed a reference to the number which I thought was like a reference to Back to the Future, and flagged the issue to their bosses, assuming it was an innocent mistake.

Phil: But in ensuing weeks, others found more problematic signs, and in-universe labels such as references to a racist meme, the number and the Hegel Rune.

Phil: Now, I don't know what the number means.

Phil: Do you?

Tom: I think that's the words.

Tom: We must secure the future for our white children or something like that.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Maybe you should plead the fifth before you admit to knowing what these things are.

Phil: Actually, you know, we should know what these things are.

Phil: And the Hegel Rune.

Phil: I know what that is.

Tom: I think that's the dialectical rune of the philosopher Hegel.

Phil: Okay, I don't know what that is.

Phil: As I know what Hegel is from the Monty Python song, something as sloshed as Hegel, I believe.

Tom: Was he in the philosopher's football match?

Phil: Oh, yeah, he was.

Phil: That's my extent of Hegel, my knowledge of Hegel.

Phil: As the number of possible hate symbols mounted, staff grew increasingly concerned that someone was putting these items in the game deliberately, as a dog whistled to white supremacists.

Phil: Nazi imagery would be inappropriate in most games, but in a life of strange title, the dissonance was especially frightening.

Phil: Somehow, this has turned from a reportage to editorial.

Phil: Since its inception, the series has been lauded for thoughtful portrayals of marginalized individuals.

Phil: As the weeks went by, management remained silent, and staff ungraced grew.

Phil: This wasn't the first time executives had failed to act when marginalized individuals' studio fell unsafe.

Phil: According to over a dozen current and former employees, so she took to sources, most of whom spoke to me on a condition of anonymity, Deck 's management has long led a toxic work culture fester at the studio.

Phil: They say that the C-suite, the executives, have protected multiple abusive leaders, encouraged crunch, and allowed bullying of individuals advocating for more authentic representation in Life is Strange.

Phil: So, story or non-story?

Phil: I think the facts are there.

Phil: I mean, the references are obviously in the game and can be found, though I was disappointed in IGN that they didn't go through the game and do screenshots to back up the evidence.

Tom: I think we need the evidence to be able to comment properly on it.

Phil: Yeah, I think we do.

Phil: And then the second part is, okay, well, in terms of impugning management, basically the only thing they've said is, as weeks went by, management remained silent and staff unrest grew.

Phil: So, okay, so if someone goes to management and goes, hey, look, you know, all this stuff was in this game.

Phil: And you go, okay, well, we'll check it out.

Phil: I guess, you know, my response would be as management, okay, well, can you guys provide evidence?

Phil: And if they do obviously provide the evidence, or maybe they did, I go, okay, can we patch this out?

Phil: You know, like, can we patch this out?

Phil: Can we put some people on this to patch this out?

Phil: And then go from there.

Phil: Oh, and also find out who, do they still work for us?

Phil: You know, and so if, but if they say management remains silent, then I guess I wouldn't expect them to do, to say anything after their initial response, because for all we know, management did say that.

Phil: Hey, patch it out, and we'll look into it, and see who is responsible for this.

Phil: But I don't know.

Phil: I'm not ready to really start burning people, because basically, then the rest of the story goes, oh, well, they made us do crime.

Phil: They bullied people who were advocating internally for more authentic representation.

Phil: I mean, Life is Strange is pretty good for representation, so far as I can see.

Phil: Comments?

Tom: I want to know what the references were.

Tom: Are they hidden in the game, as in they're not visible to players?

Tom: They were only visible to people developing the game?

Tom: Or were they part of the narrative of the game?

Tom: Or were they visible to players, but as Easter eggs or something you had to come across randomly?

Phil: OK, that's a good point.

Phil: Developers noticed a reference to number

Phil: So if someone in the code was just putting everywhere, that's not publicly facing.

Phil: But in Sewing Week, others found in-universe labels.

Phil: So I'm thinking if you see a book or an album in the background, or there's a shop scene in the shop, so I'm thinking that in-universe labels would have to be represented inside the game and public facing.

Tom: That's what it sounds like.

Phil: And those included references to a racist meme, the number

Phil: Well, okay, forget that.

Phil: I mean, I get, but I don't.

Phil: Unless it's represented in a very specific way.

Phil: I like if there's an album in the background that says, you know, Sally, such and such as greatest hits, you know, that's and the and the Hegel rune and I hadn't looked into what the Hegel rune is.

Phil: Maybe I don't know how you that is as another symbol.

Phil: You know, the Swastika Hinduism, that sort of stuff, too.

Phil: So yeah, so you're saying you don't have to draw comment.

Tom: And I think in terms of it's in universe depiction, you need the context to see why it's there, whether it makes sense.

Tom: Is it there as some sort of Nazi virtue signalling, or is it there for a narrative reason?

Tom: You definitely need the context for that.

Tom: I think if developers are randomly finding it hidden here and there, maybe it is there to target certain employees at the company.

Tom: That sounds like potentially more questionable, but without further context on the in-universe thing, that could make perfect sense as to why it's there.

Phil: Yeah, and the other thing is, I don't know if you remember, I don't know if it was before the storm or in the original, there was that dude that lived in a caravan near a factory that the two of them went to visit, who would have fit a white supremacy archetype.

Phil: If these things were present in his caravan, well, that's within context and not offensive.

Phil: But I think that any person who's going to raise this would have recognized that that would have been appropriate.

Tom: Maybe, maybe not.

Phil: Yeah, well, you're saying maybe, maybe not, that they would have the judgment to go, that shouldn't be there?

Tom: They may be of the opinion that even if it is potentially justified, it should still not be there.

Phil: You think there's people?

Phil: I'm an idiot.

Phil: I was going to say, do you think there's people like that and you're going to laugh?

Phil: So I'm just thinking, you know, life is strange before the storm.

Phil: Maybe they should have called it before the storm front.

Tom: Life is strange before the storm.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Moving on to story number three.

Phil: This is another big one.

Phil: Writer and developer of Enslaved, writer and director of Enslaved, Devil May Cry and Hellblade leaves Ninja Theory.

Phil: And we credit the six axis with this one.

Phil: Ninja Theory, co-founder and chief creative director Tameem Antionades, has left the company.

Phil: He served as writer and director on Everything from Heavenly Sword.

Phil: You remember playing that?

Tom: I never got around to it.

Phil: Oh, that's a good one.

Phil: Enslaved, Odyssey to the West, Devil May Cry, or DMC Devil May Cry, and their acclaimed hit Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice.

Tom: I'm sorry if I did play, and I was a big fan of that.

Phil: Hellblade is...

Tom: I think that features one of our hottest takes in our big show about it, in which I said it was a superior version of The Matrix.

Phil: Wow, absolutely.

Phil: I agree with that.

Phil: And Enslaved, obviously, is a superior version of Uncharted.

Tom: No, I was saying Enslaved was a superior version of The Matrix.

Phil: How so?

Tom: That's the Journey to the West one, right?

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Tom: Thematically, they have very similar, um, themes.

Phil: Um, I have not watched The Matrix.

Phil: I have free access.

Tom: You need to now watch The Matrix...

Tom: All right...

Tom: .

Tom: and replay Enslaved.

Phil: I will...

Phil: Okay...

Tom: .

Tom: and come back.

Phil: Bloody hell.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Well, I can't...

Tom: I mean...

Phil: I'm not sure about replaying Enslaved at this day and date, but, um, anyway, Antonates was conspicuously absent.

Phil: Now, what's interesting about his departure from the studio is how it was discovered, right?

Phil: I'm about to go into that.

Phil: Antonates was conspicuously absent when outlets like Polygon were invited to the Cambridge studio.

Phil: Um, they said, well, hey, where's Dude?

Phil: Where's the writing director?

Phil: Where's Dude, right?

Phil: It's

Phil: Where is he?

Phil: They asked Microsoft, good reporting, Polygon.

Phil: Microsoft subsequently confirmed that he's left the studio.

Phil: And Polygon noted that the game is being made by...

Phil: So who has replaced him?

Phil: The game is being made by the environmental art director, the visual effects director, and the audio director.

Phil: Okay, so that's a bit suspicious.

Phil: It's not clear why he left, but Antionades featured prominently in the behind-the-scenes look at something called Project Mara.

Phil: His last appearance was in a second and most recent development diary for Project Mara, which was in January

Phil: Project Mara hasn't been heard of since that video, and we can speculate that Antionades' departure is somehow related to Project Mara.

Phil: So, I don't know, but this is a big deal.

Phil: He was the director and writer of all of their biggest games.

Phil: And the last public thing he made was in January

Phil: Obviously, no one's going to notice, right?

Phil: Because Ninja Theory is not Naughty Dog.

Phil: But it's gone now three years since he's left the company, and there was never a public announcement.

Phil: Now, Microsoft didn't own them in but there was never a public announcement.

Phil: There was never a, hey, you know, anti-Naughty.

Phil: There was never anti-Naughty coming out and saying, hey, I'm starting my new thing, and this is what I'm doing.

Phil: And he obviously missed out on the big buyout from Microsoft.

Phil: What do you speculate happened to him?

Tom: It's a bit weird, isn't it?

Tom: I think maybe the only reason we haven't heard about it is the main PR attraction wasn't the director of most of their famous games, but Andy Serkis.

Tom: So maybe they just didn't think anyone had heard of it.

Phil: Look, he has a very distinctive.

Phil: Name.

Phil: I don't know the origin of the first name Tameem.

Phil: I don't know what Tameem sounds like to you, but it sounds sort of Indian or African or something.

Phil: And Antionades, of course, is Greek.

Phil: Yeah, Mediterranean Greek.

Phil: So his name has struck out to me as I followed.

Phil: I am a huge fan of the works of Ninja Theory since the Xbox era.

Phil: And I've always seen him in very intelligent interviews pushing and promoting Ninja Theory's games and content.

Phil: And so I've always noticed that name, because it's such an interesting name.

Phil: I'm thinking he got Me Too'd, January

Phil: I think something's gone there.

Phil: I think he got Me Too'd out.

Tom: Do you think they do that in science?

Phil: I do.

Phil: A small company like that, especially if they were seeking to be purchased by a larger studio, he worked on the first Hellblade, which was a fantastic thing.

Phil: So the only reason why someone would leave a company of his note and there not be some sort of proclamation is because he's leaving under a cloud.

Tom: So they don't want the publicity of Me Too?

Phil: I don't think so.

Phil: I don't think so.

Phil: But anyway, what does that mean to the studio?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: Did you ever get a chance to play Hellblade?

Tom: No.

Tom: I think the only game of theirs I've played is, in fact, Enslaved.

Phil: Oh, you played DMC, didn't you?

Phil: No.

Phil: Oh, that one's the best one.

Phil: That's the best one.

Tom: From you.

Phil: And then Hellblade.

Phil: Yeah, thank you.

Phil: And I'm sure we can go back and find out what's...

Phil: You guys go to gameunder.net, search that, and you'll find my review of DMC out.

Phil: And then Hellblade is obviously a play on Heavenly Sword.

Phil: It was the spiritual sequel to Heavenly Sword, which I really liked.

Phil: So I'm going to have to...

Phil: I'm just going to write down now to play Hellblade in anticipation of the new one.

Phil: Okay, anything else on that?

Phil: We'll go on to story number four in our final story.

Phil: And that is Roblox Studio Head Denies Child Exploitation.

Phil: Have you heard this story?

Tom: No, I haven't.

Phil: See, now, am I bringing the news this week, or am I bringing the news?

Phil: Leader of Dragon Quest gets fired.

Phil: Life is strange.

Phil: Nazi's writer of Hill is enslaved.

Phil: I'm putting forward that he's been me too.

Tom: He's been me too.

Phil: No one else is reporting that.

Tom: We know for a fact he was me too.

Phil: And, you know, it's not his fault he's been me.

Phil: And by the way, I don't know if you've seen our show notes, the effort that goes into these news stories is more than what goes into the news stories on GameSpot or IGN these days.

Tom: It's even more effort than what goes into them on air as well.

Phil: Shut up.

Phil: OK, so story number four, Roblox Studio Head denies child exploitation.

Phil: Quote, like, you can...

Phil: Actually, I've got an accent for this guy.

Phil: Like, you can say, OK, we're exploiting child labour, right?

Phil: Now, credit to Eurogamer for this one.

Phil: In an interview with Roblox Studio Head Stefano Carazzo at GDC, the reporter asked about the reputation Roblox has gained and the notion that it was exploitative of young directors, since it takes a cut of the work sometimes produced by children.

Phil: Here's a quote.

Phil: You can say this for a lot of things, right?

Phil: Like, you can say, OK, we are exploiting child labour, right?

Phil: Or you can say, we are offering people anywhere in the world the capability to get a job, even like an income.

Phil: So, I can be years old in Indonesia, living in a slum, and now with just a laptop, I can create something and make some money.

Phil: He went on to note that they have hired some teenagers, and that there had been millions of players on the platform.

Phil: For them, you know, hearing from their experience, they didn't feel like they were exploited.

Phil: So, I focus more on the amount of money that we distribute every year to creatives, which is now getting close to like a billion dollars, which is phenomenal.

Phil: So, after that interview was published, Roblox officially responded, stating that the majority of games are created by developers who are aged or older.

Phil: The average age for their top earning or engaging developer is around years old.

Phil: I will note that they said the majority are created by developers who are aged and we all know, speaking English, that majority means more than %.

Tom: What are your thoughts?

Phil: Yeah, what are your thoughts?

Tom: And we should also add that the top earners are on average years old.

Phil: Right.

Tom: So, if we delve into these numbers, we can conclude that quite possibly % of people producing Roblox content are the lowest earners and all children.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: What do you think of this quote?

Phil: Like, you can say, okay, we are exploiting, you know, child labour, right?

Tom: Ha!

Tom: That's actually what he's saying.

Phil: No, that is what he said.

Phil: Like, you can say, okay, we're exploiting, you know, child labour, right?

Phil: Or you can say, we're offering people anywhere in the world the capability to get a job and even an income.

Tom: This is the classic libertarian sweatshop argument.

Phil: So I can be years old in Indonesia, living in a slum, and now with a laptop, I can create something for me and make money.

Phil: And then he says, I focus more on the amount of money we distribute every year.

Phil: I focus more.

Phil: So he's explicitly saying, more than the age of the people that create this shit, I focus more on the amount of money that we distribute every year, which is getting close to like a billion dollars.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, is this...

Phil: Where is this story gone?

Phil: Like this is...

Phil: And you go to every other podcast this week, and, oh, it's a slow news week.

Phil: There's nothing to talk about here.

Phil: This is gold.

Phil: This is probably the best story.

Phil: I'm going to memorialize this story at gameunder.net so that we can come back to it later, because this is, I think, one of the funniest stories we've come across in a long time.

Phil: You agree with me that they probably are exporting kids, right?

Tom: Without any question.

Tom: I mean, you look at the game, I think it's very clear that probably the vast majority of Roblox content is clearly produced by children.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: That's at least the impression I got.

Tom: Oh, yeah.

Phil: That's the impression I got.

Tom: I think the funniest thing about this story is the quote is just so brilliant, because in all likelihood, the majority of content being produced by the game is probably not Indonesians in a slum with a laptop on which they can play Roblox and produce Roblox content.

Phil: I don't know, man.

Phil: I've played some of the games.

Tom: But probably more likely either non-slum living Indonesians or Europeans and Americans producing Roblox content, who were also probably children.

Tom: So I just love that he invents this potentially imaginary story.

Tom: At least the narrative is imaginary, in which he is saving -year-olds in Indonesia from slums who have somehow got their hands on a laptop and thought, what am I going to do with this laptop?

Tom: I'm going to produce Roblox content and get out of the Indonesian ghetto by doing this.

Phil: I think I played that game.

Phil: It was Prove Mom Wrong by being a developer for Roblox.

Phil: Okay, well, with that, I think this segues perfectly, because as people have been playing video games for a long time, we've often sort of not even reported on Roblox, but as we go into what we've been playing, you and I both delved into Roblox recently.

Tom: I think you're the only adult who I've met who has suggested that I play Roblox.

Tom: But I've met quite a few children who have, which is again, I think, lending more credence to the fact that Roblox is exploiting children.

Phil: I'm not surprised that I'm the first adult that's played it.

Phil: In my defense, but when I suggested you play, I had not played it myself.

Phil: So it's not like it was a recommendation to point out to our listeners.

Phil: Now, for a lot of our...

Phil: I'll just put the...

Phil: Let's just set the groundwork here for what Roblox is, because I think a lot of our more seasoned video gamers probably haven't given Roblox a day.

Phil: Believe it or not, Roblox has been around since

Phil: It's developed by Roblox, it's published by Roblox.

Phil: It's an online game platform.

Phil: It's the first thing to know about it.

Phil: So if you've ever walked by a computer where a kid's playing, quote, Roblox, and you say that looks like a stupid game, exactly what I did, recognize that that's just one of millions of games available on a platform.

Phil: So imagine like YouTube, but instead of every video being a video, it's a stupid game.

Phil: So it comes with a free dev kit that was created by a guy called Dave Bazooki and Eric Castle in and relies on a programming language, Lua, L-U-A.

Phil: I was not familiar, I've never heard of programming languages, I've never heard of Lua.

Phil: And it started in growth rapidly in the second half of s, which I remember because at that point kids were either playing Fortnite or Roblox.

Phil: And apparently COVID-really pushed that forward.

Phil: It's gotten generally positive critical critiques, but it has faced criticism for lack of moderation, microtransaction, as we've just discussed, exploitative practice towards children.

Phil: So it is important to know that Roblox is a platform.

Phil: It is free.

Phil: You can go on your web browser and download it now and start playing games immediately.

Phil: I would recommend that you do, because like itch.io, it is a font of tremendous creativity.

Phil: My first impression of it was, this is so easy, you can just go in and play these games.

Phil: And a lot of them were quite original, but like for every game that had any sort of success, there's obviously like of them trying to confuse you to play a very similar type of game with a similar type name.

Phil: The other thing that shocked me was the amount of IP theft, the intellectual property theft.

Phil: And I don't know how they're getting away with it.

Phil: And I just don't know how they're getting away with it, because this is like one of the most...

Phil: This is one of the most biggest games in the world, making the most money in the world.

Phil: If Take Two started putting in, you know, like Simpsons into GTA without paying royalties and licensing fees, like they'd be shut down immediately, and they wouldn't even do it because their lawyers would tell them, you can't do this.

Phil: So to me, that is one of the biggest enigmas.

Phil: Do you have anything to add to that?

Phil: Like, what was your first impression when you went in?

Tom: Before we move on to impressions, I just want to point out this is a show of revelations.

Tom: First, we had the whole Ninja Theory Me Too incident, then the child exploitation occurring at Roblox, and now you've just told me that Roblox was originally released in

Phil: Yeah, they developed it in and released it in

Phil: Before that, they'd done basically like a few education games, and I think that the intent for Roblox was that this was going to be a way that kids could learn programming, which is.

Phil: I mean, and kids do use it for programming.

Phil: Minecraft is used more legitimately.

Phil: I don't think Roblox is used in schools to teach programming.

Phil: But yeah, you didn't know that.

Tom: So when did it blow up?

Tom: Because I was suddenly not hearing about Roblox in

Phil: No, no, it's the late half of the s.

Phil: So through is when it hit, and then COVID poured jet fuel on it.

Phil: And yeah, that's when you can go and buy Roblox, you know, gift cards in grocery stores and things like that.

Tom: I think that's just fascinating that it was lurking there for more than a decade before it blew up.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: And then by then the internet's quite mature.

Phil: I mean, was when they were developing it.

Phil: The internet was about nine years old at that point.

Phil: When I say the internet, I mean, you know, accessible in most people's homes in

Phil: So yeah, it's over years.

Phil: Yes, it's been sitting around there, making money probably off of some grants and other things from educators.

Tom: So without COVID, Roblox may never have blown up.

Phil: No, I think it was already, I mean, it was already in grocery stores, you could buy Robux before COVID.

Phil: It's just COVID's accelerated.

Phil: Because I certainly remember that one.

Phil: What was the first battle royale game that was big before Fortnite?

Tom: Player Unknowns, Battlegrounds?

Phil: Yeah, yeah, Battlegrounds, yeah.

Phil: There was a summer when, or whenever it was, when I was going into people's houses, kids playing games.

Phil: And I was like, are you playing Battlegrounds or Player Unknown?

Phil: And some of them were, but some of them had moved on to Fortnite.

Phil: But the younger kids were playing Roblox, like the -year-olds at that time were playing Roblox.

Phil: And that was certainly pre-COVID by a few years.

Phil: So, and I remember looking at those games going, you kids don't know what you're doing.

Phil: But you know what?

Phil: Here's what it is.

Phil: It's free.

Phil: It's social.

Phil: And it's got that school school ground buzz, you know.

Phil: So every day you get to go to school and say, oh, I found this on Roblox and it gives you credibility.

Phil: Kind of like this podcast does.

Phil: You get to go and say, you know, hey, I found this, go play it, you know.

Phil: And then they get to interact with their friends on it as well.

Phil: So I can totally see why it is the phenomenon that it is.

Phil: Especially since as a part of our research, you know, I was playing something and my daughter goes, oh, what are you doing?

Phil: I said, oh, can I play that?

Phil: I'm like, yeah, sure, you can do that.

Phil: And couldn't drag her away from the computer minutes later, and she's not, you know, old or anything.

Phil: And then the next day when we came home, it was like, oh, I, well, what do you want to do?

Phil: It's like, oh, can you play, can you put roadblocks on?

Phil: You know, I want to play that game again, you know.

Phil: So it's got something in it.

Phil: And I think it's going to have a, it's going to get a, I think it's going to meet a regulator at some point down the line.

Phil: You know, some senator is going to have a who spends bucks on roadblocks or something, or they're going to see something because of the poor moderation, you know, that they shouldn't be seeing in a game.

Phil: Or a studio head is going to say something to a senator like, hey, my stuff's getting ripped off in this game.

Phil: What are you guys doing about it?

Phil: I do think that that's coming when there's less pressing things for American leadership to be focused on down the pike.

Phil: I mean, once they've banned TikTok, then they can go on to do important things like straightening out roadblocks' IP threat.

Tom: Well, I hope they don't straighten out roadblocks' IP threat because I think the thing that stood out to me was comparing to something like Little Big Planet, where the tone of the games is a bit more serious and probably generally made by a slightly older demographic.

Tom: The most enjoyable thing about roadblocks was the unbounded creative freedom in terms of references and humor that was allowed everywhere.

Tom: So, I think the highlight of it was two games for me.

Tom: One was Razor Peter, which in terms of gameplay wasn't particularly engaging or interesting.

Phil: Yeah, I played that also.

Phil: And I would agree.

Phil: I think the expression is Joyeux Vivre.

Phil: And that is what this game is, which is a French phrase used in English to express cheerful enjoyment of life, exultation.

Phil: I think Roblox is an exultation spirit.

Phil: There's no question about it.

Phil: It has that same thing that...

Phil: I get the same feeling when you're playing, when you're on the storefront, that this is something where someone is just enjoying what they're making and doing and putting it out there into the world.

Tom: Absolutely.

Tom: You find that feeling in the best little big planet levels.

Tom: And I think for me, the best little big planet levels were always the ridiculous ones that were coming up with very creative, absurd ideas.

Tom: Because those are the sorts of things that you don't get to see in the main little big planet levels.

Tom: There weren't really any, in my experience anyway, and I had, VEDA recommended many, many more serious levels on the VG press.

Tom: And for me, none of them were really comparable in terms of quality compared to the best levels of the single player campaign.

Tom: And that isn't necessarily because the people making the levels were any less creative than the people developing little big planet, but obviously the people developing little big planet have massive advantages in terms of what they're able to do, in terms of level design.

Tom: But they're creatively much more limited than people making little big planet levels.

Tom: So the best ones were always the ones that came up with totally ridiculous ideas where you just felt the glee and joy of the person making the levels as they realized this ridiculous idea that no doubt the developers at little big planet came up with too, but would certainly have been cut from the game.

Tom: And basically that's the majority of the games on Roblox.

Tom: That being said, there are obviously so many games that are just copying other games, that are copying other games, that are copying other games.

Tom: But outside of just the copies of copies of copies, which are generally copying ridiculous ideas in the first place, that's the main theme, which I think makes what would otherwise be not a particularly enjoyable experience, a very enjoyable experience.

Tom: And if you were to be having the IP theft policed in a way that you would elsewhere, you would lose all the fun of it.

Tom: This is like the best parts of something like fanfiction.net.

Phil: Yeah, but this is, this is, it's almost like this is, the best parts of the internet are always like, where there is almost complete freedom.

Phil: And maybe their creative use kind of clause here or something, a creative reinterpretation.

Phil: But like take a game, for example, that we both played, Razor Peter, which has content ripped out of it directly from a TV show called The Family Guy, I believe.

Tom: I believe it's just Family Guy, no V.

Phil: Family Guy, and completely incomprehensible game, but there was madness going on constantly.

Phil: There's like hundreds of people running around.

Phil: I mean, I immediately got what I was supposed to be doing and started doing it, but I never really understood what I was doing or if I was achieving anything.

Phil: But what were your notes on Razor Peter?

Tom: I think it definitely falls under parody protection.

Tom: The issue is that even though it is, in my opinion, absolutely fair use, if this was produced in the context of a Grand Theft Auto or whatever else, they would be sued anyway, even if it is fair use and have to deal with that.

Tom: So even if it was fair use, they would be advised not to include it just because it opens them up to unfair litigation.

Phil: I'd say that though with the parody, like, yeah, it's okay.

Phil: Parody is okay.

Phil: But if you're directly using the assets that were created by an artist or studio in your game, that's where you cross the line because you're taking someone else's physical assets.

Phil: Right?

Phil: So, like, if you're redrawing Peter from Family Guy and all of the other cast members, you're redrawing them.

Phil: You're doing it, and maybe you're doing something a little bit different just to show that you're doing a parody of them, then I think you'd have an argument.

Phil: But if you're taking, like, screenshots directly out of video and putting them in the game, that's where you'd potentially fall into peril.

Tom: I still wouldn't say so because then you wouldn't be able to do things like collages.

Tom: Well, I think as long as you're recontextualizing it in some way, which I think you'd be hard pressed to say that that Razor Peter isn't in any way a mere one-to-one copying of Family Guy, even if it reuses assets.

Phil: Yeah, well, this came up in front of the Supreme Court of the US like this year, or maybe last year, the estate of Andy Warhol, of all people, was suing someone for basically taking the foreprint of Maryland, doing something, right?

Phil: This is the dude that took the Campbell soup can and the Kellogg's cornflakes box and reproduced them identically.

Phil: I hope he's laughing from his grave at the idiocy of his estate.

Phil: But this isn't an open question still.

Phil: But this is a risk that these guys are able to take because they're -year-olds in Indonesia.

Phil: Come sue me, right?

Phil: But I think the deep pockets is going to be going after Roblox, because you can say, well, you're providing a platform.

Phil: Now, then they go under that word called Internet rule.

Phil: Oh, no, I'm just the host.

Phil: I'm not responsible.

Tom: The safe harbor thing.

Phil: The safe harbor thing.

Phil: Yeah, I'm just replacing a repository for this.

Phil: But then I go, well, yeah, but you're also making money off it, and we want to cut.

Phil: But Facebook, basically, let's talk about this.

Phil: Facebook here in Australia takes Australian news articles and editorials and republishes them on their site.

Phil: And as of last month, they were paying royalties or licensing fees.

Phil: And as of last month, they basically said, no, we're not going to pay you guys anymore.

Phil: We're just going to take your content and put up an ad.

Phil: And we're going to put ads again, as opposed to directing traffic to your site where you can generate your own by putting ads against your own content.

Phil: So if Facebook's getting away with it, let's put this to bed.

Phil: Roblox can do it.

Tom: I think that's all.

Tom: I think what Facebook is doing is also significantly more egregious.

Tom: Because there is no re-contextualizing of anything.

Phil: No, just we're taking a story and putting it on our website and putting ads next.

Phil: Thank you.

Tom: I believe the correct term for that is just very simply plagiarism.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: I'll go for that.

Phil: So what were your thoughts on?

Phil: Let's get into our impressions now of individual games that we played.

Phil: We'll take turns.

Phil: Some of these we both played.

Phil: So if you just want to talk about Razor Peter, which we both played, and then I'll talk about some of the ones that I only played.

Tom: I don't think there's much more to add to Razor Peter unless you had anything else on it.

Phil: What was the point of it?

Tom: I don't think it had a point.

Phil: You had...

Phil: It's a third-person platformer where you had to walk around and discover things and interact with things while other people are doing the same and had characters from American Dad.

Phil: Not American Dad.

Tom: Family Guy.

Phil: Family Guy, right?

Phil: And somehow it's addictive.

Phil: I started and I'm like, this is stupid.

Phil: I have no connection to the content or the source material, but I ended up playing it for like minutes because I couldn't stop myself.

Tom: I think the game player was he had to click on the titular Peter, so that he dropped coins, then cross the street without being run over to visit the convenience store, buy food, cross the road again without being run over, feed Peter, get more money from him, and so on and so forth.

Tom: That was the game play loop.

Phil: It was a resource battle.

Phil: And like there's a finite amount of resource in the universe.

Phil: So while you're playing this, hundreds of other people who completely cleaned out this liquor store and greenhouse of food and all the rest of it, it was just absolute chaos, beautiful, beautiful chaos.

Phil: And I haven't seen it in any other sort of video game.

Phil: I started with my toe in the water with a game called Hide and Seek Extreme, where online players hide in a variety of settings from a house to a park.

Phil: You are mini, you're about the size of a mouse in a full-size world.

Phil: And there was obviously lots of IP theft in game art assets.

Phil: And I don't know how prevalent this is, it's probably very prevalent, but right from the very beginning, there was a hard sell on buying assets from the shop, because you don't want to just go in there looking like a killer or like a basic person.

Phil: The game had people per game, which I thought was underpopulated at the time, but considering that these are independent games, it was actually a pretty good population, but it was hard to tell if they were real people or bots.

Phil: So the game is basically hide and seek.

Phil: You've got a limited amount of time to hide, then you do nothing, you just sit and wait to be found, but you can move.

Phil: There was no music, just very basic character chirping.

Phil: And in the first round, I was three, not found, which gave me ten credits to spend in their shop.

Phil: And either it's probably by design.

Phil: You know, I'm thinking about this in commercial video gaming, where I'm like, oh yeah, well they did that.

Phil: They let me quote wins, so I get some credits, so I can go spend it in their shop.

Phil: Maybe it's not.

Phil: Maybe it's not that complicated or developed.

Phil: And in the second round, which seemed pretty contrived as well, because in the first set, you're hiding, and the second set, you're it.

Phil: And in traditional gaming, that would be, the first round would be the tutorial of what this game is.

Phil: And then, yeah, in the second round, I waited and then went and found them.

Tom: Did you find all of them?

Phil: I did.

Phil: So, but again, I felt pretty good about it.

Phil: Pretty bare bones game.

Phil: I'm going to give it a score.

Phil: Six out of ten.

Phil: Hide-and-streak extreme.

Phil: Worth playing?

Tom: I think this was in traditional gameplay terms, one of the highlights for me.

Tom: When I played it, I played, I think, three rounds.

Tom: And in all three rounds, I was hiding.

Tom: I wasn't seeking.

Phil: You played this game, too?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Oh, wow.

Phil: So what did you think of it?

Tom: Well, like I said, I think in traditional gameplay terms, it was one of the best.

Tom: Just because it takes a simple concept, doesn't do anything special or flashy with it, but executes well.

Tom: And I felt like it probably was people playing it, rather than the bots, just because you could very easily take advantage of them.

Tom: My strategy in all three rounds was to not hide in places that seemed like good hiding place.

Tom: And I was very successful.

Tom: In no rounds was the seeker able to find everyone, so they may not have been particularly skilled seekers, but they did come close to finding all of the players in two of the three rounds, whereas at no point did they ever come anywhere near me.

Tom: So it rewarded thinking outside of the box.

Phil: I think you could take this and you could sell it on the Switch or whatever.

Phil: I think at least you could put this, add it as a free mode in first person multiplayer game, which, you know, maybe this is already deathmatch, I don't know.

Phil: But you've got to tag people.

Tom: If not for the Switch screen, it would also be a perfect Mario Party minigame.

Phil: The next game I played was Natural Disaster Survival, which is an example of hit and miss with Roblox, because you just can't advance without paying Robux.

Phil: Basically, it was a highly produced, highly polished game.

Phil: There's a platform.

Phil: If you can sort of think of Monkey Ball type game, ominous platform.

Phil: Everyone, when people get killed, they come back to the platform.

Phil: So you see lots of activity.

Phil: But I couldn't drop into the world, apparently a Fortnite type world, without paying Robux, which I was not prepared to do.

Phil: So I give this game a out of

Phil: Oh, you're going to give Haydn's Dream a score?

Tom: Well, I've got the die.

Tom: We also didn't give Razor Peter a score, I think.

Phil: Well, okay.

Phil: Well, let's give Razor Peter a score first.

Phil: Get the die of destiny out, please.

Tom: Here it is.

Phil: And give it a good old roll.

Tom: Unfortunately...

Phil: Unfortunately, it's...

Tom: Actually, no, I gotta roll again.

Phil: I landed on the carpet.

Tom: I give Razor Peter a out of

Phil: Okay, I give it a out of

Phil: And...

Tom: I gave Hide and Seek Extreme a out of

Phil: Yep.

Tom: I give it a out of

Phil: Oh, that's a...

Tom: So we're getting some low Roblox scores at the moment, unfortunately.

Phil: Did you play Natural Disaster Survival?

Tom: No, I didn't.

Phil: Okay, so it...

Tom: Sounds like I didn't miss out on much.

Phil: out of

Phil: Why don't we talk about a game we both...

Phil: Well, no, let's lead up to that, because that was probably the one I liked the most.

Phil: The next game I played was something called Emergency Response Liberty County.

Phil: Did you play this one?

Tom: I did.

Phil: Oh, you did?

Phil: Okay, well this is obviously a thinly veiled reference to GTA Liberty City type stuff.

Phil: And it was basically better graphics than GTA

Phil: It's a take on, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Grand Theft Auto V's online LARP.

Tom: I am, but I never played it.

Tom: I could never get it to work.

Phil: Well, the LARPing thing requires you to play it on a PC and download a lot of plugins.

Phil: So LARPing, for people who don't know, is live action playing.

Phil: And so basically in the online, there's a community of people that go on and some pretend to be cops and some pretend to be normal citizens.

Phil: If the cops catch you...

Tom: This would not be LARPing because it's not live action.

Phil: No, no, but it's a take on it.

Phil: Yes, yes.

Phil: And so basically in the GTA V online LARP, people get, if they get legitimately caught by the cops, then they pull over, then they engage in a conversation between the cop and...

Phil: And then I presume they get shot.

Phil: No, no, well, it depends on the shade of skin color.

Phil: So I found this game to be surprising.

Phil: Here comes the adjectives.

Phil: Surprisingly complex, visually pleasant, but hard to grok for a newcomer, which I think is kind of the point of Roblox.

Phil: Basically, they drop you into a world and you basically steal a car, get in the car, drive around, do bad things.

Phil: The cops can come and pull you over, right?

Phil: And catch you.

Phil: So it's cops and robbers, which is a easy to grab concept.

Phil: Again, like hide and seek, something we all played as kids.

Phil: Cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, something we all played as kids.

Phil: I actually played as Australian soldiers versus the Viet Cong when I, you know, I updated when.

Phil: But something easy to concept, but yeah, generally like pretty good, I thought.

Phil: I had a lot of fun with it.

Phil: I got into-

Tom: I was unable to work out how to buy a weapon.

Phil: Well, I didn't worry about that.

Phil: See, I got into a car with some guy, and he already had a car and a weapon and all the rest of it.

Phil: So I was basically like a passenger.

Phil: But I was able to shoot because he had a gun in the car.

Phil: So it's all about connections, I guess.

Phil: But it was-

Phil: And I couldn't understand it at first.

Phil: I'm like, how-

Phil: Where did all this come from?

Phil: But it was because there was a more experienced player there that just needed someone to ride shotgun.

Phil: So your mileage obviously varies depending on when you're playing and who you can find.

Phil: And I just might be more willing to get into cars with strangers.

Tom: I don't think-

Tom: Can you get in-

Tom: No, yeah, you're right.

Tom: You could get into cars with strangers, actually.

Phil: And I didn't even realize that-

Tom: What I found in my game was people were generally not getting into the cars with the strangers they were standing on top of them.

Tom: And driving around the car park and shooting at each other.

Tom: But in the car park, no one was able to take any damage.

Tom: For me, it was another amusingly chaotic experience.

Phil: Yeah, and for me, it was just a cool thing.

Phil: And again, maybe I just had a lucky day where I got into the car with the right guy at the right time.

Phil: But this guy was a boss at this.

Tom: You never know what you'll get when you hitchhike.

Phil: No, that's it.

Phil: One can only hope.

Phil: So anyway, I give this one a out of

Phil: Emergency Response Liberty County.

Phil: Surprising production values, and it was just genuinely fun.

Phil: I loved it.

Tom: I give it a out of

Tom: We're both big fans of it, apparently.

Phil: Big fans.

Phil: Did you play Obby but on a bike?

Tom: Yes, I did.

Tom: That was the bicycle platforming game, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, imagine Excitebike

Phil: Basically, you're going in first person from my memory.

Phil: Maybe it was third person, but you're going through, like, this course on a bike.

Phil: Obby must be something else because they had Obby on a bike, skateboard, Obby on a skateboard, Obby on that.

Tom: Obby is apparently short for obstacle course.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: Okay, okay, okay.

Phil: Hey, thank you.

Phil: That's helpful.

Phil: I will start to use that.

Phil: I will say, yeah, you know, how did you find that one?

Tom: Obby.

Phil: No, that's good.

Phil: I love it.

Phil: Obby, but on a bike.

Phil: I thought this one was also very good.

Phil: Certainly commercial grade.

Phil: Nothing much more to say about it other than you've got something.

Tom: I think in terms of traditional gameplay, this was another highlight.

Phil: Yeah, definitely a good one.

Phil: I did not give this one to school.

Phil: I'd probably give it a good old solid eight because it was good, but it was also asking for money a lot and asking for upgrades a lot.

Tom: I think that's a downfall of many Roblox games.

Phil: Yeah, just let us play it.

Tom: When you're in an Indonesian slum, you need to make money somehow.

Phil: Yeah, especially when you're

Phil: But I think that if you can just give someone like two hours of good uninterrupted play, get them into it so that they want to pay you, and go like, Hey, I've been playing this for...

Phil: Did you play Roblox Frontlines?

Tom: Shouldn't I give this a score first?

Phil: If you want.

Tom: out of

Phil: Did you play Roblox Frontlines?

Tom: I believe I did.

Tom: That's the first-person shooter, right?

Phil: Yeah, military first-person shooter.

Phil: This is basically, I'm going to say Xbox level graphics first-person shooter.

Phil: Squad shooter, basically.

Phil: Now, do you remember this game?

Tom: I do, a little bit.

Tom: I think I found the shooting surprisingly satisfying in it.

Phil: I was blown away by the graphics and the movement.

Phil: Unfortunately, it was so much so that it crashed my computer.

Tom: So, your computer cannot run Roblox.

Phil: Front lines.

Tom: This is what I'm saying about this whole Indonesian slum scenario.

Tom: Your advanced Australian PC cannot run Roblox yet.

Tom: We're meant to believe that the Indonesian slum laptops are able to run it.

Phil: Yeah, they might be making Hide and Seek extreme, perhaps.

Phil: But, look, you know, if you just think that Roblox is a bunch of low-res, dumb games, the front lines was very impressive.

Phil: And I wish I could have played it more because every time I loaded it, it crashed.

Phil: But what was your experiences with it beyond that?

Tom: Front lines?

Tom: I didn't really play it too much.

Tom: The shooting was satisfying.

Tom: The movement was...

Tom: Even though it's the same engine as every other game, the movement in it felt a lot more fluent in most other games.

Tom: I'm not entirely sure why.

Tom: Maybe just simply the change in perspective to first person.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But it was a surprisingly satisfying and adequate team deathmatch experience.

Phil: Yeah, fantastic.

Phil: And this goes to speak about the range of games that are available.

Phil: Certainly, I think...

Phil: But you can't just, as a gamer, go Roblox, kids' stuff, put it on the shelf.

Phil: If you're not on itch.io, what innovation is happening there?

Phil: And if you're not in Roblox, checking these kinds of things out, you're kind of missing the point of video games.

Phil: And I know that sounds arrogant, but like, this is where it's at.

Phil: This is where things are happening.

Phil: Now, I'm not saying this is what I'm playing everywhere, but it's great to see this level of creativity, which leads us to the last game that we...

Tom: Aren't we going to give it a score?

Phil: Well, I can't because it crashed my computer, and I can't give it a score.

Tom: I think you can based on that fact.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, I give it out of

Tom: It was so good, your computer couldn't handle it.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I give it a out of

Phil: That's sad.

Phil: Let's hope better things happen for the next game that we both played and my daughter was addicted to.

Phil: Prove mom wrong, mom wrong by being a famous streamer.

Phil: Now, you know this is a good game because there is about other games trying to tell you that they're this game.

Phil: This is a game where you go into an empty warehouse with a basic computer and you start streaming.

Phil: And the first part of streaming is basically you play a connect the dots game with your mouse or controller.

Phil: And every time you do it, the fans like it and they give you a bit more credit and more money until you can hire someone else to come in and help you with your streaming.

Phil: And then they start streaming, and then you can hire another person, another person, another person, better equipment, better streaming gear.

Phil: So it's a progress.

Phil: It's a third person game, I should say, that moves to first person when you're sitting in front of a computer.

Phil: And you go from being a lone streamer with absolutely nothing to someone who can build up a massive empire of having tons of people streaming for you.

Phil: You hire people who then keep the streamers awake, tell them to keep working.

Phil: You can upgrade individual streamers.

Phil: The push to use Robux was not very strong, but it was present.

Phil: And because it was such a good game, again, after playing it for a couple of hours, I was like, well, maybe, yeah, let's upgrade this space.

Phil: Let's get a bigger space.

Phil: Let's get the biggest.

Phil: Let's get a better server.

Phil: So you're upgrading server-wise.

Phil: I certainly did not.

Phil: But I was tempted to.

Phil: And as I indicated earlier, this game where my daughter came in and told me playing the connect the dots thing, I was like, can I do that?

Phil: Yeah, go for it.

Phil: Because it'll give me more credit so I can upgrade my server.

Phil: Speaking of child exploitation.

Phil: And I came back hours later to give her some water.

Phil: And yeah, she'd achieved the goal.

Phil: So this to me was the supreme Roblox game that I played.

Phil: It has a ridiculous starting screen logo, which would be repulsive.

Phil: But I mean, again, they've got to get attention and disambiguate themselves from all the other copiers.

Phil: So what was your experience with Prove Mom Wrong by Being a Famous Dreamer?

Tom: I thought it was excellent.

Phil: As we'll call it here, PMWBBAFS.

Tom: You didn't mention that it's basically a work simulator, essentially.

Phil: You got me.

Phil: You caught me.

Phil: Yeah, I didn't realize that.

Tom: So it's no surprise that we're both big fans of it.

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

Phil: You sent me that am thing, too, the other day.

Tom: And as you said, you basically...

Tom: It begins with you just streaming by yourself and you slowly build up an empire.

Tom: Essentially, your goal is to get to...

Tom: I think maybe it's $billion, unlike something like that.

Phil: Nice.

Phil: I thought it might be $billion.

Phil: But the other thing that was cool about this, when I left it and came back to it, I was expecting to start again from scratch, but that's the thing.

Phil: Some of these games, most of them, recognize who you are and you get from where you left off.

Phil: So don't think that this is like a pachinko or a slot machine type place where you just come in and play games and leave.

Phil: You can, you know, build up your empire.

Tom: Yep, and it saves your progress, which is...

Phil: Yep...

Tom: .

Tom: important.

Tom: And while you're streaming, there are other players with their own streaming studios playing at the same time.

Phil: Yes, yes, you can go over and visit them.

Phil: They can come visit you.

Phil: And then people who don't want to actually set up their own studios but just want to come in and work or check out your shit can do so.

Tom: So again, there's a great social aspect to it.

Tom: And the way it's set up, there are three different progress things.

Tom: One is the time between when you get likes and money.

Tom: The other is how many likes you get and how much money you get.

Tom: So there's three stats that are affected by who you hire and who you get sponsored by, things like that.

Tom: So you're juggling these three different things and trying to figure out which has the highest bang for buck as you are buying more real estate or hiring more people.

Tom: So it's not extremely complex, but it's enough that it keeps you interested over the full breadth of time that it takes to get to the million likes.

Tom: And it's very satisfying as you're going along and you're getting more and more money and more and more likes faster and faster and faster.

Tom: And you do actually want to be going back to the basic mini game of connecting the dots because once you have upgraded the amount of likes and money you get, that becomes actually a valuable resource in between time where you're saving to hire more people.

Tom: So that remains an important part of the game, which gives you a more...

Tom: another layer of gameplay to deal with rather than just the hiring of people so that you're not doing the one thing the entire time you play.

Tom: The other thing that I think is appreciated, which fits the whole parody of streaming thing, is you can just leave the game open and do nothing and let the people working for you do everything until your server crashes.

Tom: And the only way to stop your server crashing is, of course, to buy Roblox.

Tom: You can, however, buy upgrades, and that will allow your server to go for longer without crashing.

Tom: But if you want, you can simply pay some actual money to prevent it from crashing at all.

Tom: But the one thing I will defend it for in its use of Roblox is most of the Roblox use is in hiring comical internet figures like Andrew Tate and Keemstar.

Tom: I think Keemstar was in it, but figures like that.

Tom: So at least I presume you're getting bang for your buck if you do spend real money, rather than just simply buying to win.

Phil: Especially if you hire Andrew Tate.

Phil: Well, so, I mean, all are great experience, right?

Tom: Absolutely, and I actually played it to completion.

Phil: Oh, wow.

Phil: Congratulations.

Phil: I did not, but it is the game that we revisit the most as a family because of, as I described before, its appeal, and it is an appealing game.

Tom: And its family values, like Andrew Tate, for example, keeps families coming back to it.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: I just wonder, like, the thing is, maybe curation, how did you find this game?

Phil: Randomly.

Tom: Yeah, I mean, just in the, I think, it was on the front page at some point.

Phil: You can probably go to Reddit and go, what's the top best Roblox games, you know, and that sort of thing as well.

Phil: So maybe curation isn't as important.

Phil: But yeah, all in all, Roblox in the positive column.

Phil: Is it my kind of gaming?

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Is it something that I'm going to use as my sole gameplay?

Phil: Absolutely not.

Phil: What's the appeal?

Phil: What do kids have?

Phil: Plenty of time.

Phil: What do kids have?

Phil: Don't have?

Phil: Plenty of money.

Phil: And this gives them the opportunity to play thousands of different types of video gaming experiences without having to ask mom and dad for money.

Phil: And it also gives them the opportunity, as we said in our news story, for them to create things.

Phil: It gives them something to talk about in the schoolyard.

Phil: It's just a fantastic educational experience, which is what the creators intended.

Phil: So for me, you know, I've gone from someone who is highly cynical about Roblox to going, you know, someone says, hey, should my kids play Roblox?

Phil: I'd be like, yeah, but, you know, keep an eye on it.

Phil: Keep an eye on what they're doing and all the rest of it.

Phil: I didn't delve or seek any sort of inappropriate content.

Phil: I don't know that there is any inappropriate content in Roblox, but it certainly wasn't easily accessible or right there in front of me.

Phil: Did you see anything like that, like something that would be inappropriate for kids?

Tom: Well, first we've got to give, sorry, not sorry, Prove Mom Wrong by Being a Famous Streamer a Score short.

Phil: You mean PMW Baffs?

Phil: Yes.

Phil: PMW Baffs.

Phil: Yeah, look, I mean, you know, I definitely have to give it a out of

Tom: I will give it a out of as well.

Phil: Wow, The Die of Destiny is indeed working correctly on this.

Tom: As far as inappropriate content is concerned, I'm disappointed in myself that I did not seek it out, but there was actually one other game that I played, which I was also impressed by, which I think was, I recall the title of it was a pet-based, pet-raising-based game.

Phil: Yeah, I remember playing that too, yeah.

Tom: And the thing that impressed me about it was just the huge amount of people playing it, and there was a RuneScape market-style square of people just spamming, selling wares, and people kept coming up to me, new player offering me very expensive, and I presume sought after pets, and I would just offer them a hot dog in response, and they would then cancel the deal.

Tom: So that was another highlight for me.

Phil: I do remember that one.

Phil: Yeah, so overall, your BroBlox, positive, negative, obviously a positive.

Tom: Definitely a positive experience.

Phil: Yeah, so kudos to Phil Fogg for recommending you give it a go.

Phil: Yes, absolutely.

Phil: This has been a part of my life for the last couple of years now, because there's a thing, I'm running a campaign, and that is people going, oh, I'm not going to try that, it's popular, so obviously it's crap.

Phil: Because I'd never ever, now you might say it's crap, you might say it's not, but whatever.

Phil: So I watched it in chronological order, rather in story order, and it was enjoyable and good.

Phil: It was a good experience.

Phil: And I went, okay, well, next, Harry Potter.

Phil: Again, never read it just because it's popular.

Phil: Went through Reddit, you know what, it wasn't bad.

Phil: It wasn't the best, but it was fun, and it was, you know, interesting, Reddit.

Phil: So yeah, you know, just be open to new experiences is my thing.

Phil: And again, just because something is popular doesn't necessarily mean that it's garbage.

Phil: With that...

Tom: We do have to give it a score, though, surely.

Phil: Oh, Roblox as a whole thing.

Phil: Oh, it's a out of

Phil: It's like itch.io.

Phil: It is a gem in the malaise of the current game development publishing world.

Phil: You know, game publishing and developing is pretty grim and gray right now, and Roblox is a shining stone.

Tom: Absolutely, and I'm going to give it a out of

Phil: Again, Tom's using the die of destiny, everyone.

Phil: This randomly generated dice roll, not a rice roll.

Tom: I couldn't disagree with you more.

Phil: I could use a rice roll.

Phil: Well, that was a fantastic wrap up.

Phil: So we're just going to move on to Phil's questions for Tom from other people's podcasts where Tom answers questions from other podcasts because on those shows, they were answered.

Phil: I've only got a couple this week.

Phil: George writes, favorite candy bar.

Tom: That's a tough one.

Tom: I don't know if I have one.

Phil: Do you eat candy bars?

Phil: You've got Snickers.

Tom: I haven't eaten them for a long time.

Phil: You've got Snickers, you've got Maros, you've got Violet Crumble, an Australian...

Tom: I'll go back to an old favorite, which I think doesn't exist anymore.

Tom: The nudge bar.

Phil: Oh, nudge.

Phil: Ah, nudge bar.

Phil: Isn't it something that's on the front of your car so that you don't...

Phil: It's not like a bull bar, it's a nudge bar.

Phil: I think you're confused, mate.

Tom: You don't know of the old nudge bar?

Phil: No.

Phil: Is this a confectionary that people can eat?

Tom: Yes.

Tom: I think it was an Australian one.

Phil: I have heard of it.

Phil: I am joking.

Tom: I don't think it's available anymore.

Phil: Well...

Tom: It's an old classic.

Phil: What did it obviously involve?

Phil: Chocolate?

Tom: I think it was chocolate coated, sort of like a milky bar filling, but not as sweet, and a chewier, richer sort of texture.

Phil: So a Cadbury Nunch had hazelnuts, nougat and caramel.

Phil: Hazelnuts were the key.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, no, that's long gone, man.

Phil: Oh, that's so sad.

Tom: That's why I don't eat chocolate bars anymore.

Phil: What about Crunch or Butterfinger?

Phil: Do they sell Butterfingers down here?

Phil: Kit Kat?

Tom: They don't have Butterfingers down here.

Tom: They do have Kit Kats.

Tom: Kit Kats I am a big fan of.

Phil: Yep, the wafers.

Phil: You'll have to see when you go to Sri Lanka if they have any sort of special candy bar and report back to us.

Phil: Oh, look.

Tom: We are taking about kilos of chocolate to Sri Lanka.

Phil: Thomas from New Jersey, who would be shaken, not stirred at this point, writes open world games seem to have moved from urban settings to wider open spaces.

Phil: Is the move away from cities because it would take more resources to make cities with the fidelity now available than it would to do a field?

Phil: So we are thinking about Grand Theft Auto versus Horizon or Breath of the Wild.

Phil: Open world games have moved from urban settings to wider open spaces.

Phil: Why is that?

Phil: Remember, you're competing...

Tom: I don't think you can necessarily make that statement, because I think there are pretty much as much city-based open world games as there, which is to say outside of GTA, they come and go in little bubbles, and you go through periods of not having them.

Tom: And we do have at least one other city-based open world game, and that is Cyberpunk, and we do see the old Saints Row being released now and then, so I think there's probably as many of them as there usually are going around at the moment.

Phil: Yeah, and it just depends on...

Tom: If anything, the change is that there are more fantasy open world games at the moment.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, we can get away with things there.

Tom: And I would argue there are only more open world fantasy games simply because that's what Zelda has become.

Tom: If you take Zelda out of the equation, I wouldn't say people will be thinking there are more of them at the moment.

Phil: Yeah, no, I'd agree with that.

Phil: It's a good point, and with that, we will close out episode one of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: But speaking of Zelda, actually...

Phil: Thanks for listening to The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: I do have to bring up one more thing.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Which is that the...

Tom: Nintendo's famous build quality...

Phil: Oh, yes, yes.

Phil: Actually, you know what?

Phil: This is very important.

Phil: I'm glad that you've read our outro for this, because we cannot have a good outro.

Phil: Last episode, it was too good.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: So, let's talk about...

Tom: So, we're gonna have a good outro, not outro, but final segment, then a terrible outro following.

Phil: Yes, yes, yes.

Phil: So, build quality.

Phil: You've picked up a LED or OLED switch?

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So, before we get to that, my Nintendo Switch is only, I think, three years old.

Tom: And last year, sometime last year, the battery would charge to %, but if it was used, it would last maybe minutes and get to zero.

Phil: Wow.

Tom: And it wasn't just that it was misreading the amount of charge that was left, it would power off completely.

Tom: Then maybe six months later, it gets to about two minutes before it just powers off completely.

Tom: So I have to say, I've questioned this supposed high build quality Nintendo ever since I heard of it in the first place.

Tom: The DS worked for me in various stages of disrepair, but I'm not sure you can say just because a console will work when it's broken in half.

Tom: Is good build quality when it is broken in half in the first place.

Tom: So at this stage, I have to say that they're merely riding their achievements in far forgotten consoles in terms of build quality.

Phil: Look, my experience is the original NES, real trouble.

Phil: My SNES I bought used, it's been a real trooper, no problems whatsoever.

Phil: Still using my original Nstill using my original GameCube, still using my original Wii, Wii U, and my Switch gets used by a six-year-old, and it's still going fantastic.

Phil: So I've been using, I've had nothing but, but I, you know, I became a Nintendo Hardware in game and watch.

Phil: So yeah, I, and trust me, I mean, I played the hell out of all of those consoles and not had an issue.

Phil: So have I had any issues with Nintendo Builder?

Phil: No, not all.

Phil: I mean, Game Boys, Game Boy Advances.

Phil: No, I mean, except for the DS Lite, they had that hinge break problem.

Phil: That was the only issue I've had with their hardware.

Phil: So I'm sorry to hear that, because you had three years, that's the new one, right, with the, it's the single piece ones.

Phil: So that's a sad sign.

Tom: Not the single piece one, no.

Phil: Oh, so it has detachable joy pads.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Okay, I didn't know they did that with the upgraded screen.

Tom: Yes, they do.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Are you taking it on your holiday?

Tom: Well, that is why I bought one.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Otherwise, I would have left it and probably tried to repair this one first.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: But I was forced into, unfortunately, rebuying a broken console, as I was with the PS

Tom: And like with the PSI scoured eBay looking for a good deal so that Nintendo was unlikely to get any of my money, just as I did not want to give Sony any more of my money because they were forcing me to rebuy a broken console, which should not be broken after only a few years of use.

Phil: And then, you know, I've still got my launch PSand it works fine.

Phil: I did buy subsequent PSs, obviously.

Phil: The only consoles that I've had really bad luck with was the and I went through, I think, four of those.

Phil: But, you know, as long as they were providing free replacements, that was easy to do, so you kind of just did it because you could.

Phil: So what's your experience with the new one?

Tom: Very brief, but I will say I got the Tears of the Kingdom edition because that's what I could find the best new deals on.

Tom: But despite being the Tears of the Kingdom edition, it does not come with Tears of the Kingdom, which I think is an interesting marketing ploy and arguably a little bit questionable because I can imagine there are going to be a lot of disappointed children who have been given the Tears of the Kingdom edition console and been expecting it to include the game, only to find out it does not.

Phil: But Tears are included.

Phil: That's right.

Tom: Tears of the King folk, as opposed to the Kingdom.

Tom: But I was able to find what was an even better deal than on the console, on what I always presumed was a scam website, catch.com.au.

Tom: I was able to find a new copy of Tears of the Kingdom, the new Zelda game, for $

Tom: And finding a used version of Tears of the Kingdom under $was an impossible task.

Tom: So I don't know how that was possible, but it was.

Tom: So I did end up with Tears of the Kingdom as well as the Tears of the Kingdom console as well.

Tom: And other than the console itself looking very nice indeed, it's got a beautiful Zelda iconography gold on white for the console base and golden Joy-Cons, detachable Joy-Cons, which look fantastic as well.

Tom: The OLED screen is beautiful, and it's going to make, I think, playing games on an LCD television pretty disappointing by comparison.

Tom: Just as playing, when I go from using my IPS monitors to playing the same game on the television, despite the screen being significantly larger, it's always a little bit disappointing due to how gray the blacks are and dull the colors are by comparison.

Phil: Yeah, I certainly would have upgraded by now had I not thought the Switch is imminent.

Phil: If the Switch is not backward compatible, I'll probably go out and get one immediately.

Phil: You know, the OLED.

Tom: I actually think a Switch may not be as imminent as you think.

Tom: I think new consoles will be, I think, a few years off.

Phil: All right, well, with that, if it's okay with you, we'll close out the show.

Tom: You now have my permission to close out the show, yes.

Phil: And I want to speak to the listeners here, not just because, you know, I'm sitting here talking to you all the time.

Phil: I'm going to talk to our listeners now, and I'm going to thank them for listening to The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: We've been doing this since so there's lots of resources we have covering games from that time to now on our website, gameunder.net.

Phil: If you'd like to submit a question, use our comments section on our homepage.

Phil: Thank you again for listening to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I'm Phil.

Tom: I'm Tom Towers.

Phil: And that's the show.

Game Under Podcast 149

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

This week, Tom and Phil discuss the latest news and give impressions of Sky: Children of Light before God shuts down the show prematurely.

Thanks for listening.

Transcript
WEBVTT

Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: I am Tom Towers, and as always, I am joined by Phil Fogg.

Phil: And it's my job to tell you that this is Australia's longest running video game podcast, and today is the th of March, ?

Tom: I think so.

Phil: Yeah, excellent.

Phil: Thanks for joining me, Tom.

Tom: It's good to hear from you, Phil.

Phil: Yeah, I thought we had a good show last time, not to pat ourselves too much on the back.

Tom: All thanks to Vader.

Phil: We've got a lot to talk about.

Phil: We've been playing Roblox, so we're going to touch on Roblox for the first time.

Phil: And also Sky Children of Eternity.

Tom: I think Sky Children of the Light.

Phil: Children of the Light, PC betas available.

Phil: I'm going to be talking about a game that I've been playing that's a cult favorite that you probably haven't heard of.

Phil: And of course, there'll be plenty of time for trademark banter as well.

Phil: So starting with the news this week, and again, we like to give you news that you're probably not hearing from on other podcasts.

Phil: We'll start with this, I was going to say salacious headline.

Phil: It's more clickbait headline.

Phil: Sega blames Mario for poor sales of Sonic Superstars not selling.

Tom: So that's the direct verbatim quote of the headline.

Phil: Well, I can say that it's clickbait headline because it's one that I wrote.

Tom: Because I was wondering about the poor sales and then going on of not selling.

Phil: Yeah, well, okay, so Sega blames...

Tom: I was wondering whether I should blame you for that or someone else.

Phil: You should blame me because I wrote the headline.

Phil: It should be Sega blames Mario for poor sales of Sonic Superstars.

Tom: That's better.

Phil: All right, now my subhead for that was I blame...

Tom: That I assume is the clickbait part of it.

Phil: That is?

Tom: The programmer.

Phil: Yes, Sega blames Mario for poor sales of Sonic Superstars.

Phil: People wanting to click on that just to see if the guy can form an actual sentence.

Phil: And my subhead was Michael Jordan makes me look bad at basketball.

Phil: Because if it wasn't for that asshole, I think people will be pretty impressive my game.

Tom: You are tall after all.

Phil: I am, I don't think I'm tall by...

Phil: By basketball standards.

Tom: You're not Michael Jordan tall, but that's the whole point.

Phil: No, I will...

Tom: If not for Michael Jordan, you'd be very tall.

Phil: It's funny because when I found out that one of my favorite players was my height, I was like, but that guy is short, because he's 'which is in the NBA.

Phil: He's like a midget, you know?

Phil: And I'm like, oh man, wow.

Phil: Anyway, the story behind the headline is that Sega has stated that Sonic Superstars has sold fewer copies than had been forecast.

Phil: And Nubiaka Yoshi asked how they evaluated the game's performance.

Phil: He said, although Sonic Superstars has generally been well received by those who have played it, which is kind of a backhand compliment, the timing of the launch coincided with competing titles in the same genre, and it has been short of the initial forecast.

Phil: So basically, they released this game three days before Super Mario Brothers Wonder.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And I can sort of see the director, the game director sort of saying, for the people who played it, which were not a lot, they liked the game, and from all accounts, that's true.

Phil: But the timing of the launch coincided with competing titles in the same genre, which is basically like saying, you guys, you business guys are the ones that may just release this, like three days before a Nintendo platforming Mario event.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: So I can see why you included the grammar mistake in the headline, because I don't think that would be clickbait at all.

Tom: That's, I think, a reasonable position to take.

Phil: I guess so.

Phil: He didn't, it's not like it's a quote, though.

Phil: Like, Mario's so good, so that's why our game sucked.

Phil: Because, you know, the Metacritic on this is, well, for Xbox and for Nintendo Switch, which is kind of a sign of the times, too.

Phil: Like, if Nintendo Switch should be optimized to be able to play D platformers of this level.

Tom: Maybe Switch users have higher standards.

Phil: Well, that's the critical scores, vs.

Phil:

Phil: User scores are or out of if you want.

Phil: Anyway, not a lot more to say there.

Phil: When was the last time you played a Sonic game of any form?

Tom: I think I tried emulating some of the D ones maybe between five, somewhere between five to ten years ago.

Phil: Ouch.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: I've, as long time listeners of the show would know, I occasionally placed Sonic Generations on various PlayStation s that I own.

Phil: And I get, you know, a little bit further every couple of years.

Phil: I'll play it for about an hour or two.

Phil: Sonic Generations is a fantastic game.

Phil: And basically, they take D elements from the Sonic Adventure series and tie it to the D old Sonic games.

Phil: And you go, you play as either one in a time travel type thing.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And it's a lot of fun.

Phil: It is legitimately a well-made game and a lot of fun.

Phil: And this is one of the games that Sega is re-releasing as part of their most recent re-release where they're doing Jet Set Radio and some other things as well.

Tom: Anyway, I would add, I did recently watch Sonic which I believe was a big success, and perhaps not coincidentally, it was released one year before the Super Mario film, so lending further credence to the argument being made by that particular director.

Phil: Possibly, yes.

Phil: I don't know that I've seen that second movie.

Phil: I watched the first one like three or four times because of my kid, and because it was legitimately okay for what it is.

Tom: Legitimately okay for what it is?

Tom: High praise indeed.

Phil: Have you seen the Super Mario movie?

Tom: Yes, I have.

Phil: What are your thoughts on it?

Tom: The live performance by Jack Black of The Song, I think ruined the film a little bit because it made you want the entirety of Bowser's performance to be live instead of animated.

Phil: It was just without any sort of calories whatsoever.

Phil: If you didn't...

Phil: It was basically for me, the only things I enjoyed about it was the callbacks, which occurred every...

Phil: probably about three every second.

Phil: So, but other than that, there was not a lot of there there.

Tom: I think the original Sonic film was a lot better than the Super Mario's film.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Other than its references to zillow.com and the Olive Garden, which...

Phil: without those two references, that movie is like a completely fine movie, again, for what it is.

Phil: Onto story number two.

Tom: That is high praise.

Tom: You're saying Sonic is fine for what it is, but Mario is only okay for what it is.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: For sure.

Phil: Oh, yeah, definitely.

Phil: Story number two.

Phil: EA has cancelled Respawn's Star Wars first-person shooter.

Phil: Thank you, vgc.com, for this story.

Phil: Announced in the first-person game was being helmed by LucasArts veteran and Medal of Honor co-creator Peter Hirschman, who worked on the Battlefront games and The Force Unleashed.

Phil: In a statement, blah, blah, blah, they've got people that they're laying off, and basically that Respawn should focus on the Jedi and Apex Legends series.

Phil: Knowing this, we've decided to pivot away from early development on a Star Wars first-person action game to focus our efforts on new projects based on our own brands while providing support for existing games.

Phil: His announcement came only shortly before Stig Asmason, the director of both Star Wars Jedi games, announced he was leaving Respawn Entertainment.

Phil: Now, you'll remember Stig for his work on the God of War series.

Phil: He was the art director of two, and then the creative director...

Tom: Probably he was more famous for his work on Top Gear.

Phil: And his creative director on three.

Phil: No, he wasn't.

Phil: Okay, yes.

Phil: And his work on Top Gear as the anonymous race driver.

Phil: So basically, Stig, who is the game director of God of War and he's been working on Respawn's...

Phil: He's the game director for Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, which is EA's biggest critical success and commercial success in years, when you set aside the sports stuff.

Phil: He basically quit over this.

Phil: Sounds like it.

Phil: Yeah, and this is the thing that no one's even talking about.

Phil: It is a big enough story that Respawn is EA's credible link to gamers because of what they've done over the last few years.

Phil: And for someone of Stig's stature to quit, just minutes before this announcement's made that they're cancelling this first-person shooter, that's huge news.

Phil: That's huge drama.

Phil: I don't know if it's news, but it's drama.

Tom: I think the game itself being cancelled is reasonably big news.

Phil: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Phil: And that's how I allocated it at thevgpress.com because the fact that EA would cancel anything that Respawn wants to do is news in and of itself.

Phil: This game has been in development for a couple of years now.

Tom: And it was hyped up as going to be the big Star Wars game and a killer app from what I can recall of its announcement and early hype.

Phil: Yeah, very much so.

Phil: And yet this story has been completely buried.

Phil: Like you had to actually read the story to get that fact, not just the headline.

Phil: And the headline should have been, Stig Asmussen, the director of the Star Wars Jedi games, is leaving Respawn Entertainment in the wake of the FPS being cancelled.

Phil: So, like, that's perfect clickbait.

Phil: In the current media environment, there's no way that they're there to protect EA or would even have that desire.

Phil: I just, who knows?

Phil: I just don't know why someone who's writing that story wouldn't be like, this is the headline.

Tom: You think so?

Phil: I think so.

Phil: I mean, or am I just giving them too much credit?

Tom: I don't think so.

Tom: From Top Gear to God of War III, he's got a pretty, he's had some pretty important roles.

Tom: So, I think it's big news.

Phil: He'll be able to get a job over at Hello Games on their Joe Danger sequel after they're done with doing, what's their game, not the big Lebowski.

Phil: No Mansky.

Phil: No Mansky, that's it.

Phil: Okay, story number three.

Phil: Brothers, a tale of two sons, has received a full remake.

Phil: Credit goes to the Six Axes.

Tom: Maybe that's why that other story has not been hyped up.

Tom: It may have been lost in the shuffle of years.

Tom: More important news like this.

Phil: Yeah, Brothers, a two-tail has been re-released.

Phil: It's available on Steam.

Phil: And it's not just a re-release or an upscaling.

Phil: This is a full remake.

Phil: They've re-made the game.

Phil: It's from the director that went on to make It Takes Two and the other game I can't remember.

Phil: Now, I went back and listened to our original review of Brothers.

Phil: In episode you compared it to hurdy-gurdy.

Phil: Do you even know what hurdy-gurdy is?

Tom: I believe it's an instrument.

Phil: No, yes, it is an instrument that monkeys dance to.

Phil: Wasn't it made by your fellow that did the thingy?

Phil: You know, the guy.

Phil: Didn't he make hurdy-gurdy?

Tom: Omkinen?

Phil: No, no, the Nordic fellow.

Tom: Who's the Nordic fellow?

Phil: Oh, he is, okay.

Tom: Who is the Nordic fellow?

Phil: The fellow that did the game.

Tom: Stig Asmussen?

Phil: No, it'll come to you soon.

Tom: How can we forget Stig Asmussen's greatest achievement?

Tom: Hurdy-gurdy.

Phil: I just love what he did with that Civic, you know, in terms of his lap time.

Phil: Just, you know, it was fantastic just before.

Phil: But anyway, this is what you said about the original.

Phil: The puzzle's rudimentary is an overstatement.

Phil: I said, I found the puzzle's insultingly obvious.

Phil: You said, it's a good gimmick, but they do nothing with it.

Phil: And it got a Metacritic of the new game, the original got a Metacritic of

Phil: And it sort of raised, I'd love to hear anything you have to say about this game, brothers, because it's been a long time since it came out.

Phil: We talked about it something shows ago.

Phil: But it rose the question with me, when should games be remade?

Phil: When do they deserve a remaking?

Phil: Like, this game got a remake, that's, you know, starting from scratch.

Tom: And I have no idea why.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, it's weird.

Tom: The screenshots of it, I need to compare them.

Tom: Do they actually look that significantly different?

Phil: Well, the whole thing is, this is not a first-person online shooter.

Phil: Like, the graphics are important to the game, but they're not a central part of the game.

Phil: So...

Tom: What else have they changed in the remake?

Tom: Have they changed the gameplay?

Phil: No, it's the same thing.

Phil: It's the same game, exactly.

Phil: And for those of you who don't know, it's...

Phil: I'll make a reference to a game that's even more obscure.

Phil: It's like The Lost Vikings.

Phil: So it's a co-op game where you're playing by yourself, where you switch between two brothers.

Phil: One of them's smaller, one of them's larger, one can swim, one can't swim, one can climb bigger, one can't.

Phil: And so basically, you're going through these levels, I think, to try and save your dying mom or something, and then something tragic happens, and, you know, all sorts of things there that go on.

Phil: But, yeah, look, I can only think that I have been a part of some creative endeavors in my earlier years.

Phil: And as soon as you finish something, you kind of want to go back to it, like, five years later, and go, God, that was so much fun, but, like, the technology then wasn't what it was.

Phil: What if we reshot it?

Phil: We can improve the story.

Phil: We can cut down the time in it, you know.

Phil: There's always a thing.

Phil: Well, in short, just to, you know, cut all that off.

Phil: Basically, what I'm saying is, I can see why you'd want to go back and revisit something.

Phil: He's had success or some sort of success with two other games, so I can see why the game director would want to go back to the thing that brought him fame and try and make it a tighter, you know, better experience.

Tom: I can't.

Tom: I think a large part of the motivation surely has to be this nostalgic era we're in, because I think it creatively makes a lot more sense to try and express the thing you were trying to express better in an entirely new endeavour, unless you completely fuck up the original work.

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: You know, maybe it's a lack of imagination.

Phil: Hey, maybe it's funding.

Phil: Maybe the guy just wants more money to fund the next great thing he's going to do and remind people why he is where he is in terms of his standing.

Tom: Or alternatively, he could only get funding to a remake.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's probably a fusion of a few different things.

Phil: And you never know.

Phil: Someone could have come along to him and go, hey, I'll remake this.

Phil: You don't have to do anything.

Phil: It's just a check.

Phil: It'll fund whatever you want to do next.

Phil: You know, we just don't know.

Phil: But I would say it's ultimately a good thing, because it's putting a better-than-average game back into the milieu, and people are going to be able to be exposed to it that they weren't otherwise exposed to.

Tom: I'm not sure I would call it better-than-average, but it's the sort of game that, despite not being overly enthused by it at the time, it has nevertheless stuck in my memory, so I will say that for it.

Phil: That's for sure.

Phil: It's probably because we talked about it.

Tom: Probably.

Tom: And I would like to draw your attention to Brothers on Steam, which I linked you to, because I think judging by this, our memories were very wrong, and it turns out the remake looks totally different.

Phil: I don't think that's the same Brothers.

Phil: It doesn't look...

Phil: That is not the game.

Phil: That's completely different.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Speaking of...

Phil: Anyway, on to the next story.

Phil: Rockstar plans full return to office for GTA developers.

Phil: So basically, they're telling their workers, you guys have got to come back to the office.

Phil: No more working from home.

Phil: We got security problems.

Phil: The game's been getting leaked.

Phil: And also, you know, productivity.

Phil: We got to go back to working five days a week if we're going to get this game out.

Phil: According to reporting from Bloomberg, Rockstar head of publishing, Gen Colby, has told staff that ending hybrid working will bring tangible benefits.

Phil: So, you know, initially I thought, okay, well, I'm pretty connected to what's going on in most people's work lives.

Phil: This is normal.

Phil: Like, you know, everyone stayed at home, then had a hybrid approach, but these days now it's more like, you know, turn up for work, people.

Phil: And then basically a day later, GTA developers criticized Rockstar's reckless decision to force staff back to work.

Phil: And this is mostly driven through a union in the UK.

Phil: They're talking about broken promises, that there's going to be concern about health and caring responsibilities, living arrangements, and a heightened risk of overwork.

Phil: Rockstar management has so far refused to engage with workers on the issue, and will, quote, pull the plug, that's a quote, on remote access on April th.

Phil: So they're basically saying, if you're working at home, we are just, you will no longer be able to connect to our servers on April th.

Phil: You've got to come in to actually work.

Phil: An anonymous Rockstar worker is quoted as saying, working from home has been a lifeline for many of us, allowing us to balance care responsibilities, manage disabilities, and relocate where we need.

Phil: Now Rockstar is snatching away that lifeline without a second thought for the workers who will be impacted most.

Phil: After so many broken promises, we now fear that management may even be paving the way for a return to toxic crunch practices.

Phil: So yeah, what do you think of this story and the backlash from the workers?

Tom: I think I'm surprised that so many companies are eager to return to having people in the office, and over this time period have not made moves to perhaps stop renting the buildings where workers were working, unless of course they owned the property.

Phil: I think if you look at IGN, for example, which is a media company in our space, they completely decentralized.

Phil: They stopped renting expensive offices in London and San Francisco, and all of their workers are now decentralized.

Phil: Yeah, I think from a development point of view, I just think that the interaction between all the creative people that work on a game is ultimately beneficial.

Phil: And things that happen in a break room or in a hallway, or you just turn around in your chair and ask a two-second question that wouldn't happen online, I think all of these things add value to a better product and a better company.

Tom: I think the terms of creativity, doing things indirectly presents you with a different set of challenges and a different sort of interaction that I think creates a different, different moments of spontaneous creativity.

Tom: So I think both ways work equally well.

Phil: Equally well.

Tom: Depends on what they're going for.

Phil: It depends on what they're going for.

Phil: I think for smaller independent games.

Phil: I mean, there are games like Larian's Baldur's Gate you know, that have been developed completely from home.

Phil: There are other great examples in independent video gaming where the people have never even met each other and have worked on fantastic products.

Tom: And I will say, I think the likelihood of Baldur's Gate being significantly more creative than Grand Theft Auto is pretty high.

Phil: Very much so.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: However, I think that for Rockstar, this is a product.

Phil: And I think for them, they are more in the Activision, EA, Ubisoft kind of space where they need to be in control of their workers.

Phil: I do think that people who work from home can, depending on their personality types, actually be more prone to crunch because it just becomes a part of their life.

Phil: So they just find themselves working hours a day where ordinarily...

Tom: There's no one there to kick them out of the office.

Phil: Yeah, kick them out of the office or go, hey, go for lunch or this, that or the other.

Phil: So I don't think it's a simple thing.

Phil: Rockstar has earned a fair amount of good credit for worker relations based on some negative stories a couple of years ago about, you know, crunch and things like that, and have responded positively to that and provided better working environments.

Phil: So I do think that the UK Union is overreacting.

Phil: However, at the same point, you know, Rockstar is basically saying, we're going to disconnect servers, and you all got to come to work five days a week.

Phil: Now, coming to work five days a week is not an onerous request for an employer.

Phil: That's what most people would expect to be doing.

Phil: But, you know, based on...

Tom: The way it is presented, the communication sounds like it could have been handled better.

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

Phil: And here in Australia, a key component of workplace health and safety is consultation.

Phil: It's not just a nice thing to do.

Phil: It's the law.

Phil: Like you have to consult with your workers if you're going to be creating a change in their work environment.

Phil: So, you know, I think on this part, I can see both sides.

Phil: I'm not going to come down on one side or the other.

Phil: I think it's tough.

Phil: It's tough for the people that have gotten used to working from home.

Phil: But similarly, you know, Rockstar is a company trying to create a product, and it's tough for them also not to have people.

Phil: I think on a more granular level, they could probably look at, okay, who cannot work, like, who has actually moved to Portugal and cannot come to work in Edinburgh to work on this product, you know, and look at these things more carefully.

Phil: But, you know, from the likes of the other workers who didn't move to Majorca, they'd be like, well, what the F?

Phil: I mean, why are they allowed to work from home?

Phil: And, you know, just because I never moved, I've got to come in.

Phil: So, yeah, it's a complicated issue.

Tom: I think, ultimately, the impact of a social structure in a workplace is highly overrated.

Tom: You can have people working together who are more alienated from one another than people who are working apart from one another.

Tom: I think what this really comes down to is, for the past number of years during the whole COVID thing, Rockstar wasn't really working on developing anything, so it makes sense that they would, now that they are actually working on making a game, rather than just exploiting a -year-old piece of crap, that they would want to return to the way they've developed games previously.

Tom: I think that's probably the simple matter.

Phil: Yeah, I agree entirely.

Phil: Well, that wraps up the news.

Phil: Now, we are going to talk about next, before my power goes out again, a game that you've been playing for quite a while now, and that's a sky killer of children, I believe it's called.

Tom: I think it's called Children of the Light, although the Nvidia screenshot folder for it is entitled The Moonlight Blade.

Phil: Nvidia folder for it?

Tom: Yep, because it has now been released on PC.

Tom: If you search PSI on Steam, it's not among any of the first results for some reason.

Tom: You need to look up its full name.

Phil: Okay, so some backstory.

Phil: This is developed by that game company that released Journey and Flow and Flower.

Phil: The fellow's name is...

Tom: Jenova Chen.

Phil: Jenova Chen.

Phil: We're one of Jenova's witnesses.

Phil: And this game was initially released for mobile, and then for Switch, and then I'm assuming the other consoles.

Phil: Are you telling me it's now only coming to PC?

Phil: It's been like, what, six, seven years?

Tom: I think it's around five years, and it is only now finally coming to PC.

Phil: But obviously, this is a moneymaker enough for them that they are able to only just now bring this to the most logical platform.

Phil: Other than mobile...

Tom: It's the GTA V of the indie space.

Phil: Is it?

Phil: Well, I imagine it would be.

Phil: It's got to be so weird for them, you know?

Tom: After their experience with Journey...

Phil: I mean, just basically like, we're just going to release this without a, you know, a safety net.

Phil: And then to have it so slowly, but quickly, and just continue to have support and development.

Phil: It's just incredible to me.

Phil: Like, it's just got to be such a weird feeling that like, wow, this is really working.

Phil: This really is something we could probably do for another years.

Tom: I think it's surprising for me as well, from when I was first playing it, I did not expect that it would be still around and still with an active and sizeable user base five years later.

Tom: Or that I would still be playing it five years later, for that matter.

Phil: Yeah, because it's...

Phil: Well, I'm not going to say it appears to be fairly simple.

Phil: I mean, what are the major hooks of it?

Phil: And maybe for people who haven't heard us talk about this game for a long time, just give us the baseline as to what a minute-to-minute play experience is for Sky.

Tom: Well, I think originally there were two major hooks.

Tom: I think originally it was maybe thematically a little bit simpler and less abstruse than Journey, but nevertheless had that degree of engagingness on a thematic level.

Tom: But it was also a much more interactive experience than Journey was, where you could speak to players you befriended if you unlocked the ability chat, and you could go exploring with them in a way where you weren't just randomly thrown into a game with someone else, and they happened to be there.

Tom: And it's also a less linear environment as well.

Tom: So I think that was the original appeal of it.

Tom: I think as five years later, the content they keep adding is thematically less interesting than it was originally and less engaging.

Tom: But over time, they have had some experiences that have definitely stood out, like the Aurora concert, for example, and the crossover Little Prince crossover was I think one of their most interesting seasons and a surprisingly good fit.

Tom: So they do have over the years managed to keep coming up with interesting things, even if it's moved away from the original journey-inspired direction in many ways, which I think is also probably one of the reasons that it manages to keep going five years later is that it has been willing to evolve over the years, at least in terms of presentation.

Tom: In terms of gameplay, it's still very similar to how it was originally.

Tom: They have added certain elements over the years, and they did alter the flying mechanics and made them a little bit more accessible and simplified than they originally were, but it remains engaging enough that it's still enjoyable to still fly around in it.

Tom: I can't imagine what it would be like starting the game now compared to when it was first released, because when it was first released, it was overwhelming enough in terms of the amount of content in it, and that's before all of the extra areas they've added now and the numerous spirits they've added as well.

Tom: So it's interesting that it still does get new players, given if you're joining it now, it seems like it will be, in terms of gameplay anyway, just a completely overwhelming experience with the thought of unlocking everything seeming nigh on impossible.

Phil: So have they added ATVs or quads?

Tom: They haven't added ATVs or quads, but they have added snowboards.

Phil: Okay, well, that was predictable.

Phil: I just thought maybe they had added ATVs and shotguns by this point, but we'll keep hope alive for season

Tom: Not yet.

Tom: There are fireworks, though.

Phil: How do the fireworks work into the game?

Tom: They're purely an aesthetic thing.

Tom: So you can set off fireworks as you're flying around or standing around.

Phil: Can you buy them for real currency?

Tom: No, you have an unlimited amount of them.

Phil: Okay, so how does real currency work into this game?

Tom: But disappointingly, when they were first released in the game, you could just spam them endlessly and completely break a server for everyone in your vicinity.

Tom: And very disappointingly, they nerfed that so that there was a cool down on the fireworks so you can no longer destroy the game for people.

Phil: I think nerfing it is an inferior option than just basically figuring out how you can enable everyone to just do that all the time if they wanted to.

Tom: Exactly, they needed to beef up their servers somehow.

Phil: Servers as opposed to nerfing your ability to push their servers.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: So now it's being released on the PC.

Phil: What impact have you seen so far in terms of the culture and the online environment?

Phil: Or if you haven't seen that yet, like has it been just a couple of days since they've done this?

Tom: Been, I think, a few weeks now.

Tom: And I don't think for the PC release, they have any special items for players to wear.

Tom: So for the Nintendo release, the Switch release, they had some Zelda-related outfits.

Tom: So it was apparent that you were getting Switch players joining the game because you were starting to notice people with these items and running into people who took minutes to write a simple sentence due to the difficulty of writing out chat on the Switch.

Phil: So in terms of the aesthetic of Journey, I can imagine that they've got the PC players wearing clan hoods, because that would fit in with the aesthetic, and that way you can easily identify the people who are playing on PC.

Tom: And it would fit in with the PC audience.

Phil: Demographic, yeah.

Tom: The PC anti-PC audience.

Tom: But unfortunately...

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Unfortunately, as yet, and it's still in early access, so it's not the full release of the game, which is maybe why you can't easily find it on Steam.

Tom: Thus far, I don't think they've provided PC players with any special items or anything like that.

Tom: So other than potentially coming across people who can type quicker than normal...

Phil: Really fast, yes.

Tom: I'm yet to notice any impact.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Phil: So how is this going to change the way that you play the game?

Tom: Well, I think it will make it easier.

Tom: The main way I play now is I am essentially a parasite.

Tom: I play the game when I'm doing something else, and follow around a friend, and let them do literally all of the work.

Tom: If I don't manage to catch a friend for them to do that, I will be forced to actually play the game myself and complete the daily quest if there is a season on so I can get the seasonal candles.

Tom: This will provide me with another opportunity to do that, so I will be able to do that while I'm eating breakfast, and additionally, my iPad's battery has died, so I'm stuck playing it on the phone, which makes my standard strategy of parasitism a little bit more difficult because I might need to be messaging someone on my phone, and it's just more awkward to be propping up my phone somewhere while I'm eating as opposed to using the iPad for that purpose.

Tom: So the PC offers another avenue where I might be able to be doing something else while taking advantage of a friend in the game.

Phil: It's good to know that you're evolving hobo gaming throughout the st century from one step to another, and your ability to be a parasite on people who actually give a shit sounds like % of people who play Sea of Thieves, from what I can tell.

Phil: So, well, that's good.

Phil: I mean, you know, there's going to be rolling in money.

Phil: It's so crazy that just got basically taken journey, you know, from Sony's, you know, sponsorship, patronage, or whatever that's called, and then just basically gone, yeah, we're just going to roll this like % in a different direction, and then it's just going to be money forever for Jenova Chen and his clan.

Phil: I mean, you know, good on them.

Phil: So is there anything else you want to say about this, anything revolutionary?

Tom: Well, I think it looks even better than the iPad on the high settings, and unlike the iPad version of the game on the high settings, you can have this on the maximum graphic settings and play at FPS rather than

Tom: So that is very much appreciated.

Tom: On the iPad, you can only play it on medium at FPS.

Tom: So that's a big step up, and I was surprised, but of course, thinking about it, it makes perfect sense.

Tom: I wasn't sure how well it would translate to mouse and keyboard controls, but I have to say, I think this is probably my most preferred way to play the game, which makes perfect sense, given the gameplay is predominantly flying around, so classic mouse look is a natural fit for all flying games.

Tom: The only thing that is a little bit awkward compared to playing on mobile or iPad is of course operating the most interactions in the game.

Tom: It is not as streamlined, but of course, it is a lot easier to type and faster to type with a keyboard, so it's a bit of half a dozen of one and twelve of the other.

Phil: Yes, you're right.

Phil: So I would think, does it have Xbox controller support for the PC?

Phil: It would have to.

Tom: Yes, it does.

Phil: Yeah, so I'd be using that plus the keyboard as opposed to the mouse.

Tom: Have you tried that?

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: So that's how I do it, or PlayStation controller, controller.

Tom: I wonder if you're playing on a PC with a touch screen, it would also have touch screen controls.

Phil: Yeah, no one really does that.

Phil: I mean, on a laptop maybe, but you wouldn't think so.

Phil: What I'd like to see is like gesture support for people who have cameras.

Phil: That would be interesting and fit with their, you know, philosophy, I think.

Tom: It would?

Phil: Yeah, totally, man.

Phil: If you could be like doing like, you know, some sort of, you know, gesture thing, I think that would be fantastic and totally fit.

Phil: Now, what impact will this have on the international audience?

Phil: Because obviously, you know, the mobile platform is the great equalizer.

Phil: Is bringing this to PC going to make this more of a Western type game, do you think?

Tom: I'm not sure.

Tom: It depends on how many people pick up on it.

Tom: But I think other audiences are so established.

Tom: I don't think it will have such an influx of players that it will make a huge difference.

Phil: So with the audience being so established, are they going to shit on the PC users?

Phil: Like, is this going to be like, oh, this is when Sky died.

Phil: This is when Sky sucked, you know, because all these PC people started coming in.

Phil: Because community is the most important part of this game from what I can tell.

Tom: So that hasn't really been the case with the console versions.

Tom: Pretty much all iterations of the game have been welcomed thus far, because there are a lot of people playing it who don't just play on play mobile games.

Tom: They also have a Switch or a PlayStation.

Tom: So usually the feeling for an upcoming release for Sky is usually one of excitement, and that has generally been the case with the PC releases.

Tom: While I know a few people have been looking forward to finally being able to play it on PC as well.

Phil: Increasing the size of the audience, which makes the game more successful, more popular, and all the rest of it.

Phil: But for somehow, culturally, I just think that console games that are added to this sort of MMO come cap in hand, and, you know, I'm on a Switch.

Phil: Hey, guys, you know, go easy on me.

Phil: I'm just sort of coming in.

Phil: Whereas I think with PC users, it's a bit more like......conflict-laden.

Phil: And people hacking the game, you know...

Phil: I just think that there's just a higher level of hostility coming, and maybe that's why they've waited until this point of the game's maturity for this challenge.

Phil: Maybe not.

Phil: But I wouldn't think that technologically, it would be more challenging to add this to the PC platform as opposed to PlayStation and or the Switch or something like that.

Phil: So maybe this is just the last cash-in.

Phil: Maybe this is just the last...

Phil: Once we expose this to the PC world, that's where we are most at risk of disrupting our culture.

Phil: But at the same time, I would think that disruptive PC users coming in are going to come and go.

Phil: They're just going to come in, do whatever they can to destroy it, and then leave or get bored and move on to the next thing.

Phil: Anything else?

Tom: Certainly, there have been conflicts between different audiences in the game based on where they are from and politics.

Tom: They may have been bearing that sort of thing in mind.

Phil: Like Palestine-Israel type politics?

Tom: Usually Chinese-related politics.

Phil: Taiwan politics, yeah.

Tom: Exactly, those sorts of things.

Tom: And Korea and Japan.

Phil: But we all know where The Game Under Podcast stands on those issues.

Phil: Firmly in one......amp, and not the other.

Tom: I, for one, am looking forward to the culmination of the Axis and Allied conflict in Sky.

Phil: Yeah, well, I can't support nor not support what you're saying.

Tom: In any case...

Tom: We're taking a neutral and balanced stance on the components of World War II.

Phil: Mmm, maybe you are.

Phil: Now, with that, we're going to just draw up the curtain here for our listeners.

Phil: We have had to stop this recording a couple of times because of some extreme weather events where I live that has caused the power to cut out.

Phil: So we are not going to risk any more further outages, so we're going to push all of our programming to a later date, which may be in a couple of days.

Phil: It might be in a couple of weeks.

Phil: Who knows?

Phil: But with that, we're going to close out episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: If you enjoyed this content, you can go to gameunder.net and go back and look at our old shows, look at our old reviews and articles.

Phil: We've done quite a few game reviews, features and hardware reviews at gameunder.net.

Phil: And as Australia's longest running video game podcast, we've got a fair amount of content there for you to go back and look at.

Phil: So with that, I am Phil Fogg.

Tom: I'm Tom Towers.

Phil: And thank you for listening to The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: That was actually a strong outro.

Phil: Thank you.

Game Under Podcast 148

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

0:00:00 Intro

0:00:25 News

0:13:00 First Impressions - Palworld

0:21:08 Resident Evil 7 & 8

1:18:35 Trademark Banter & Gran Turismo Movie Impressions

1:32:47 Tom's Questions for Phil From Other People's Podcasts

Transcript
WEBVTT

Tom: Hello and welcome to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: I'm your host Tom Towers, and I'm joined yet again by Phil Fogg.

Phil: Hello, I'm Phil Fogg.

Phil: Thank you for joining us on The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: We've got plenty to talk about, starting with the news.

Phil: It's been an eventful couple of weeks.

Phil: In that time that we've been gone, obviously everyone's aware that Microsoft had a huge buildup to talk about how they're going to release games on other platforms, and then said that we've already been releasing games on other platforms.

Phil: I think the big press conference was really just...

Phil: it wasn't a press conference, it was a podcast...

Phil: was really just to placate all of the rumors that were out there about them basically pulling a Dreamcast and exiting the gaming world after they've just spent $billion in one of the largest business acquisitions of all time.

Phil: So really it's a non-story that they haven't announced which games are coming, but by all guesses it's Pentament and Hi-Fi Rush coming to Switch and PlayStation

Phil: And a couple of games that I've forgotten are Sea of Thieves, and another game that I don't know about is coming as well.

Phil: And as predicted, they basically said they want to put their games in front of as many people as possible.

Phil: Game Pass is still going to be a thing, and people who subscribe will still get Microsoft's games day one for free.

Phil: And these games will be delayed in terms of their delivery framework, at least for now.

Phil: That was one of the softer commitments.

Phil: The only other news that came out of it was they said they're ready to make the biggest generational leap ever when they design their next console, but they are bringing out something else in the interim towards the end of the year.

Phil: So that's the summary of the event.

Phil: Did I miss anything there, or was anything there surprising to you?

Tom: Was the wording on the generational console leap there ready to?

Phil: No, that they are in the process of designing it, and it's going to be the biggest generational leap.

Phil: So most people would say that the biggest generational leap was when we went from D to D.

Phil: So that would be the Super Nintendo Sega Genesis Master slash Master System to PlayStation Sega Saturn.

Phil: They're saying this is going to be bigger than that.

Phil: So I guess they're going to D.

Tom: Maybe even D.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, why just skip it?

Tom: It's got to be bigger.

Tom: So if we went from D to D, that's one dimensional leap.

Tom: If we're going from D to D, that's the same.

Tom: So they've got to go to D.

Phil: A hyperdimensional console.

Phil: Maybe it's just going to include Excel or something, something that's never been done before.

Phil: So yeah, really not much news there.

Phil: I mean, I'm happy that they're releasing more of their games on other platforms.

Phil: I mean, Pentaman was by all accounts a very good game, and by limiting it to the Xbox, it only got exposed to a limited number of people.

Phil: So if they can get their games in front of more people, they make more money.

Phil: It makes them more stable.

Phil: And as a consumer, I no longer have to buy an Xbox if I want to play games like Pentaman or Sea of Thieves.

Phil: Now, of course, you know, you can always...

Phil: you've always had that option through the PC.

Phil: But now if I wanted to reduce the number of consoles, I don't think there's any such thing as third-party exclusives anymore, not really much to speak of.

Phil: So you're really only buying a console for its first-party product.

Tom: Do you think we might see Game Pass on other consoles?

Phil: I would love to see Game Pass on Nintendo consoles, but I'm not sure.

Phil: Nintendo typically doesn't keep up in terms of technology, in terms of hardware, for that to work fully.

Phil: I'd love to see it on PlayStation, but PlayStation is in the business of selling software.

Phil: And if you've got something like Game Pass on the PlayStation, it's going to have an impact on their software sales.

Tom: That is true.

Phil: The only way to get around it would be if Microsoft were to give them a percentage of the subscription.

Phil: I think they said they have million or something like that subscribers.

Phil: So they could make a ridiculous offer to PlayStation and say, in return for us getting out of the console market, we want to put Game Pass on PlayStation and we'll give you a ridiculous percentage for every user that downloads a game on your console.

Phil: Now, given that publishing formats typically give away %, they typically take % of the total sale.

Phil: I mean, that's what Apple does.

Phil: That's what Steam does, I guess.

Phil: The Microsoft Store, you know, all of these publishers charge developers to put their games on the platform.

Phil: So if Microsoft is already owning most of the products that are being released on Game Pass, you know, if they're not really...

Phil: Like, it could work economically, but it would never work for the third-party games that are on the platform.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: In short, I don't think it's viable.

Tom: Maybe that could be the dimensional leap they're talking about.

Phil: It could be.

Phil: It could be.

Phil: So speaking of only buying a console for its first-party exclusives, in our second news story, Sony announced that they will not be releasing any new major titles in

Phil: So that's...

Phil: They've got...

Phil: I forget, they've got something like different studios.

Phil: Now, they're not all working on, quote, major titles and never have been.

Phil: I don't think anyone would consider Dreams by Media Molecule a major title.

Phil: But it still does open the door that some of these other studios could be releasing new material.

Phil: Sucker Punch did...

Phil: What was the name of that...

Phil: What was the name of the game that they released?

Phil: The Japanese Ninja one that was like...

Phil: You know the one.

Dave: The Samurai one.

Phil: You can't love the one just letting me...

Tom: I think it wasn't the Samurai one, not Ninja?

Phil: Yes, the Samurai one.

Phil: You know, that's been four years now.

Phil: So you think if they were going to bring out another...

Phil: Another sequel in that franchise, that they would have done it in four years.

Phil: Bend brought out that biker game.

Phil: Bend Studios, they've done nothing since.

Tom: Samurai game, the biker game.

Phil: Lost and Damned, no, no, that's a different game.

Phil: Play along at home.

Tom: And you guess the game.

Phil: Guess the game.

Phil: But we haven't heard anything from Team Asobo, Blue Point Games, Media Molecule, since they shut down Dreams and Housemarque.

Phil: I mean, that's just a handful of studios that are under the Sony stable that we haven't heard anything from.

Tom: What about Naughty Dog?

Phil: Naughty Dog, well, we talked about them last time, you know.

Phil: I have since learned that they are working on a new product that's not Last of Us, and that Last of Us is not under active development, so we can put that one to rest.

Phil: So at least they're working on something new, but you have to imagine that's a good five to seven years off.

Tom: A few years off at least, maybe not five to seven.

Phil: So a lot of people are hand-wringing about whether or not AAA game development is viable, any more of these big games?

Phil: Are they able to be landed?

Tom: Well, I think we sort of talked about this a bit in the last episode as well, the whole nostalgia angle.

Tom: This sort of applies to this as well.

Tom: Again, if we actually look at what the big titles are, a lot of them aren't necessarily from first-party developers.

Tom: Of all the companies you listed, the only one that would stand out to a game from software or the like would be Naughty Dog, which you actually didn't mention.

Tom: So I don't know if any of them, which you were alluding to at the beginning, would actually be developing a major title, per se.

Phil: Right, right.

Phil: Well, we haven't heard anything coming from Naughty Dog this year.

Phil: Studio Japan's been shut down.

Phil: Nothing from Polyphony, which I guess would be normal, right?

Phil: They've released their game, they're just going to keep updating it at this point.

Tom: Yep, that's to be expected.

Phil: Who's the Ratchet and Clank guys?

Phil: Insomniac?

Phil: So nothing from Insomniac?

Phil: You know, so it's not just their small teams, it's their big teams.

Phil: Studio Santa Monica, nothing from them, which we wouldn't have expected.

Phil: We'd expect that they're only working on the next God of War.

Phil: But certainly, yeah, it is something different.

Phil: You talked about nostalgia.

Phil: I mean, the Grand Theft Auto Vice City, and San Andreas all came out within four years of each other.

Phil: The Naughty Dog games came out every two years.

Phil: The Uncharted games came out every two years.

Phil: And you know, you do see studios like the Yakuza Studio or like a Dragon Studio, you know, they continue to churn out product, but mostly that's been remakes and things of that.

Phil: But they're still getting a brand new game through the Lost Eyes and the Yakuza.

Phil: They're still getting a new game out like every single year.

Phil: And then that leads into the next story.

Phil: Nintendo just continues to churn out a game like every month, every month and a half.

Phil: And they get, you know, four out of five.

Phil: It's like the latest Mario vs.

Phil: Donkey Kong review.

Phil: And the reviewer said it's a perfect template for what Nintendo does really well.

Phil: So we talked about sustainable development.

Phil: I just, I think there's some studios that are getting it, which are obviously in Japan.

Phil: And there's some studios here in the West that just, I think they've kind of lost their way in terms of what's important.

Phil: I'd much rather get a GTA game like every two years as opposed to once a decade.

Tom: I don't know if they're not getting it.

Tom: I think maybe it's a different business model where the focus is on Western games to draw out how long you can make money off the individual game for as long as possible.

Phil: Which, so the tail of the game is longer.

Phil: So if you look at the tail of Lost Eyes or Yakuza, it's like you buy the $game, and then you play the game, and then you don't play it anymore.

Phil: Whereas GTA is still the number one best-selling game every year, and making tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars every year with online.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah, but then you've got the other games in Sony's portfolio like God of War and The Last of Us, and Uncharted, and the Spider-Man games, which are really, they don't fit that long tail.

Tom: Maybe that's why we're not seeing any this year.

Phil: Yeah, because they're committed to changing that probably.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You're a very smart man.

Phil: Speaking of a game with a long tail, but perhaps not, Pal World is our final news story.

Phil: It's lost two-thirds of its players in two weeks.

Phil: So it looks like, now, a lot of this has to do with it being available on Game Pass, I would suggest.

Phil: In that people coming in, trying it, getting their yucks, either liking it or not, and then moving on.

Phil: So I don't think that that's cataclysmic for the future of Pal World, but then I haven't played it.

Tom: So rather than two-thirds of the players leaving, there was an increase, perhaps, of two-thirds, and then those two-thirds left after trying it out.

Phil: Exactly right.

Phil: And because, I think, because of the hype, there was a lot of hype, and Game Pass certainly seems to build hype or generate a lot of hype just by its nature.

Phil: It's giving you a full free game you can try.

Phil: If it gets any sort of buzz, then it's going to have an audience.

Phil: So, yeah, I guess unless you've got any other new stories or anything else to say about that story, we could go into what we've been playing, which...

Tom: I did give Pal World a brief try on Game Pass, so we may as well move right into Pal World.

Tom: So the game Pal World has most been compared to is, of course, Pokemon, but it is clearly more of a survival game.

Tom: So you start off basically with no items, including no Pokeballs or, as they're called in Pal World, Pal-spheres, and you're dropped into this hilly area or cliffside area where there are some Pokemon-like creatures wandering around, and you've got to collect wood and stone, either that has fallen randomly on the ground for some unknown reason or by punching rocks, more like boulders actually, or punching trees to harvest wood and stone.

Tom: And you then craft a workbench and other things which you will start building your base with until you're able to get to craft or you can also explore and find a pal-sphere, at which point the actual Pokemon part of the game begins where you punch Pokemon-like creatures until they're weak enough for you to capture them, at which point you then can use them to fight other Pokemon-like creatures so that you can then weaken them enough to capture them as well.

Tom: And I didn't play it a huge amount, so I may be missing something, but early on anyway, there's a slightly frustrating mechanic.

Tom: Over time, both your health and the pal-creature's health gradually recovers over time.

Tom: So when you're bashing up these creatures before you capture them, you end up with a creature that is very low on health.

Tom: So before they're actually useful in combat, you've got to wait around for their health to recover.

Tom: There's also a hunger mechanic and sleep mechanic and all of those sort of survival-related mechanics, but the game actually reminded me the most of, given how important crafting is early on, and this might change later when you have got a good array of tools, will actually runescape, but without other people.

Tom: So I believe you can play with other players, and on a few occasions, it says someone had joined or left my world, but I never actually ran into any other humans in the game, which was a little disappointing.

Tom: But the moment-to-moment gameplay of just mining, crafting materials felt very runescape-esque in its simplicity.

Tom: And the combat is, I don't know if you could call it more complicated than runescape, in terms of interacting with the world, it sort of is, in terms of mechanics, maybe not so much.

Tom: But it's an interesting combination of different genres and different games, predominantly being survival.

Tom: But in terms of the gameplay, from my experience with Pokemon games, it actually didn't really feel like a Pokemon game at all.

Phil: No, I mean, are you raising them?

Phil: Do the animals evolve into different levels, or are they just what they are when you find them?

Tom: Well, it's too early for me to know whether they evolve or not.

Tom: But at this stage, they're all very basic animals.

Tom: And the designs are sort of cute.

Tom: An example of the combat is, and so far it is all extremely easy, the different pals have slightly different attacks.

Tom: One of them is a sheep, and it rolls itself up into a ball and rolls towards you, but it's very easy to just step out of the way of.

Tom: And when it comes to a hold, it's stunned.

Tom: Others will just simply attack you.

Tom: So there is some slight variety of combat, but it's all very, very basic.

Tom: I think it's the sort of game that would be greatly improved with other players.

Phil: Yeah, it sounds like it.

Phil: So it's got a base building element, it's got crafting, it does sound like a mashup of a whole bunch of different things.

Phil: It even sounds a little Harvest Moony to some extent.

Phil: You know.

Phil: Possibly, yeah.

Phil: But unless you're working with other people or working against other people, I think it has to have that element.

Phil: Maybe it's just the time of day that you're playing.

Tom: Could be.

Tom: And I think there were...

Tom: that you can make an online game, I think, as well, specifically to invite other people.

Tom: So maybe it's more designed to be played with friends rather than random people.

Phil: So it's too early.

Phil: Now, the other thing is, do you think they might be gating you with bots until you get to a certain part of the game?

Phil: Even past what would be considered the tutorial?

Tom: I think I'm still technically in the tutorial.

Phil: Okay, so they might be gating off other people's experiences from you just yet so that you don't leave the experience with a negative experience.

Tom: Quite possibly.

Phil: Yeah, I'd say that would have to be it.

Phil: So, okay, are you going to persevere with it?

Tom: Potentially.

Tom: The one other thing that I should mention is the sense of humor in the game is probably the most appealing thing so far.

Tom: Not that it is particularly predominant in the experience, but you meet an NPC who is the last survivor of their group of people who came to this island you're on, and everyone else has been eaten by the local wildlife, the Pals.

Tom: And there's a nice sense of slapstick to it, what with the punching rocks and trees to harvest resources.

Tom: So that's probably the most, I think, appealing and interesting part of the game so far.

Tom: The gameplay maybe has potential later on if it becomes a bit more complex, but definitely the hook appears to be the aesthetic and comedy and sense of humor.

Phil: And is it any voice acting in it whatsoever, or is it all animal sounds?

Tom: Well, there's some sounds for when you're punching things and things like that, but there's no spoken dialogue.

Phil: Yep, yep.

Phil: Okay, well maybe you'd like Minecraft, like if you like punching things for resources.

Tom: Maybe.

Tom: But I'm boycotting Minecraft, not for...

Tom: I haven't really ever heard of people boycotting Minecraft despite some of the creators of Minecraft's views, which is interesting.

Tom: I don't think he's really been cancelled, has he?

Phil: No, I think he hasn't...

Phil: He's not relevant enough to be cancelled.

Phil: I mean, he hasn't had anything to do with it for such a long time.

Tom: Maybe.

Tom: But I'm boycotting it because I swear that I purchased Minecraft before it blew up.

Phil: You did?

Tom: And never received a copy of Minecraft.

Phil: Oh, man.

Phil: You were in when it was like $or something like that, right?

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah, I remember that.

Tom: But I never got my copy.

Tom: Maybe that is probably how Notch made his billions.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Okay, now, so your initial impressions of Power World, it's not bad.

Tom: Yeah, pretty much.

Phil: Yeah, and I think once you get online, that's definitely going to make a big difference.

Phil: Okay, so for our next game in what we've been playing, we promised that D-Vader would be back to talk about Resident Evil and and he's just sauntered into the studio.

Phil: Hi, D-Vader.

Dave: Hello, everybody.

Tom: Welcome back.

Phil: Yeah, welcome back.

Phil: Well, now, Resident Evil and was where we were up to.

Phil: You want to take it from here, Tom?

Tom: I'd love that, Phil.

Tom: So here's another instance of where I wished I had taken notes, but I think it makes sense to begin with Resident Evil

Tom: I remember that much at least.

Tom: And I went into Resident Evil relatively blind.

Tom: I didn't really read many impressions of it at the time.

Tom: I read Artie's review of it, of course, but he took the review in, I think, slightly more abstract direction for a lot of people.

Tom: So I was going into it pretty blind, which made for a very interesting experience.

Tom: I knew, of course, that it was in first person, so it was a new direction for the series.

Tom: And obviously I'd seen the original trailers with the family eating dinner and all that sort of stuff, which was also a little bit different for the series as well.

Tom: And when I started the game, it didn't really have the best first impression because it felt like it was very much riffing on Silent Hill.

Tom: It began in a much more sort of poetic way compared to other Resident Evils with this, I think, long shot of someone driving along the Bayou and some slightly pretentious, but in a good way, sort of narration introducing the scene.

Tom: And you then end up in this very slow sort of cinematic walking sort of experience, which again feels much more like Silent Hill than Resident Evil.

Tom: But once the shit hit the fan, I was very relieved.

Tom: And it made for, I think, when I was thinking it was going to be a very derivative experience, it ended up being a very original experience that managed to actually go in an interesting, a new direction for Resident Evil, while still keeping its aesthetic.

Tom: Because once, sorry, keeping its narrative style.

Tom: Because once the shit did hit the fan, you go from this more serious tone to a combination of body horror and slapstick comedy.

Tom: The series is well known for, and it managed to put in what is a much more cramped and intimate sort of environment, ridiculously over the top Resident Evil characters, which I thought was a pretty impressive achievement.

Tom: So narratively, I ended up being very impressed by it, and it really could have gone very badly for the series, but I thought it was a great new direction.

Tom: What did you think, Vader?

Dave: Yeah, I thought it was a very cool, kind of almost rebirth of the series.

Dave: Like, Resident Evil is very important in that, in a way, it kind of saved the franchise after did so much damage, and there was like a lull in between, and kind of brought it back a little bit fresher, a little bit newer.

Dave: I think the release of it, I think it was partly that one came out on PC, and all of them, that would have been the first Resident Evil game to come out on PC immediately, maybe did too.

Dave: But on launch, I think it opened it up to a new audience.

Dave: It was more into that kind of first person, kind of hiding, because something is stalking you kind of thing.

Dave: That's how the first section of the game plays out.

Dave: And it was a cool way to bring back the franchise, a strong way.

Dave: It's a very well made game.

Dave: And it's still, like you said, it had this new tone.

Dave: But then as you went on, it's like, oh yeah, there's Resident Evil.

Dave: It started becoming fun again.

Dave: The characters were cheesy.

Dave: That perfect line between they're cheesy, they're dangerous, everyone's kind of having fun, and it's bloody, and they nailed it.

Dave: It's such a good game.

Dave: And for me, as a fan of the originals, for it to come back to the item boxes, you had to manage your inventory, the limited inventory.

Dave: That was so cool to see after and went in a completely different direction.

Dave: This one brought it all the way back to the original, and it was a cool little hybrid where you had all the inventory stuff.

Dave: It wasn't as intricate as Resident Evil Remake, which to me, that's the best of the old style.

Dave: But it was kind of nice to see it come back in any form, and it was just cool even in first person.

Dave: So it was a really cool game, and I think all fans need to appreciate how important that was for ushering in this new era of Resident Evil games that we've been in and have been extremely successful.

Dave: Because for a while there, it looked like the franchise did not know what to do.

Dave: And Resident Evil kind of righted the ship, and we've been good ever since.

Phil: I've got to admire the developer's ability to just take a completely new turn.

Phil: And the way that you just described it, they needed to do something, because the prior game was not well received at all.

Phil: But switching to the first person, I mean, that takes a lot of balls to do that with Resident Evil.

Phil: First person games are not traditionally well received in Japan.

Phil: The game, we cannot look past the fact that the game is developed in Japan by a Japanese company and Japanese people.

Phil: And you might go, they've taken some steps in the past.

Phil: Did they release that first person action game or was that Capcom?

Phil: No, that was Namco.

Phil: In the original Xbox, it was called Breakdown.

Phil: Yeah, Breakdown.

Phil: Which, in that sense, they were trying to appeal to the Western audience.

Phil: So maybe again, they were trying to say, well, Westerners like first person experiences, maybe we'll do that.

Phil: But it was a bold move.

Phil: And I've got to say, when I went into it, I didn't have the same reaction as Tom in terms of, you know, seeing it as a bucolic, poetic type start to the game.

Phil: Because I felt I got to the action quite quickly.

Phil: And then I immediately recalled a game series called Condemned, which came out on the original Xbox.

Phil: Do you remember that game, Dave?

Phil: Yeah, and I was someone who up to that point couldn't really stand gory horror games, but those games were just so good.

Phil: And that's what this game reminded me of the most, at least in that introductory setting.

Phil: My question is, what did they leave out of it?

Phil: What did hardcore fans of Resident Evil take away from REwith like, oh, they've changed this and it's for the worst?

Dave: I would say, for me, the structure, well, there's kind of split.

Dave: That first part of the game, a lot of people say is the best part, where you're in the house, Jack is like chasing you, where you're kind of defenseless.

Dave: To me, that's more like Amnesia.

Dave: I'm not a fan of those horror games, the hide and seek horror games.

Dave: I do not like them.

Dave: Even Alien Isolation, which people love.

Dave: I do not like hiding around.

Dave: I don't find it interesting to hide in a corner and wait for something to just go away.

Dave: I don't find that compelling gameplay.

Dave: I want to be able to face whatever is coming at me and shoot it down and escape if I have to.

Dave: So that first part of the game where it's kind of like hide and seek, it's well designed.

Dave: The house is very well designed.

Dave: It's got some cool sections.

Dave: But I found that to be a little bit kind of weak.

Dave: And I found the later parts of the game where it became more action-oriented, more the classic thing where you're managing your items, you got things around every corner, there are monsters around, you're trying to find which door, which room to go to.

Dave: That's what I like.

Dave: So I found the game to be pretty well-paced.

Dave: Boss fights were amazing.

Dave: I think the Marguerite boss fight is one of the best in the series.

Dave: But it never reached the highs of, let's say, Resident Evil Remake, which is where you have that perfect design of an entire police department.

Dave: You're looking for keys, you're going in and out, Mr.

Dave: X is chasing you.

Dave: That's a beautifully designed game from start to finish.

Dave: And I felt this one had little sections.

Dave: Here's hide and seek part.

Dave: Marguerite is also kind of like that.

Dave: She's walking around with a light in the second part.

Dave: You have to hide from her in different rooms.

Dave: And then there was the birthday segment, which is like a puzzle thing.

Dave: So it was little sections of different things.

Dave: And Resident Evil is also a lot like that.

Dave: And some of them are stronger than others, so it's not as cohesive, but it's still a very well made game.

Tom: I think that structurally, where it is not as good as Resident Evil is not so much in like the level of detail of the environment, but there are times in the game later on, where it locks you out from earlier areas in a way that feels not all organic, which I think lets it down a bit, because one of the things that I enjoyed about it most up until those points was just going back looking for things and the classic Resident Evil style backtracking.

Tom: So when they're randomly, not randomly, when they're seemingly arbitrarily putting a brake on that, that felt a little bit unnecessary and frustrating to me.

Dave: Right, right.

Dave: Yeah, it does lock you out.

Dave: Because it is, like I said, kind of like section by section.

Dave: It didn't feel as elaborate as, say, the mansion in Resident Evil the police department in

Dave: Yeah, it never gets to that level.

Dave: One other thing, the enemy variety in Resident Evil is very poor.

Dave: There's a lot of just gooey blacklings, and that's kind of it.

Dave: So that gets kind of fixed in Resident Evil but it is one of the worst in terms of enemy variety.

Tom: I think the reason for that perhaps is the focus on the family members.

Tom: So the battles between them are just sort of filler between the important parts, but it definitely could have been handled a lot better.

Dave: For sure.

Dave: Did you ever play in VR?

Tom: No, I didn't.

Dave: Well, that's a big thing of why it went first person.

Dave: This was a VR made game from the start, and it is one hell of an experience in VR, I can tell you that.

Dave: And I played it first regular, and then later I got the VR headset for the PlayStation, because it was exclusive VR for PlayStation.

Dave: That was a weird deal that Kafka made, where it was exclusive only for the PlayStation.

Dave: PC owners couldn't play it in VR.

Tom: I think you can with mods, though.

Dave: Yes, you can with mods.

Dave: But yes, it's intense.

Dave: It's a really cool experience.

Dave: In terms of VR games, the Resident Evil games are my favorite VR titles.

Dave: They're just so much fun to play, especially the later ones, the and that are so much fun with the gunplay that you can just kind of mess around.

Dave: It is great.

Dave: It's in your face.

Dave: It's so much scarier.

Dave: So I could see where they were going for it, and in that way the first person was pretty effective.

Phil: I had no idea that that...

Phil: So it was a VR first game by design.

Dave: Yes.

Phil: Wow.

Phil: So how long is it?

Phil: How long does it take to beat the game?

Dave: Nine, ten hours.

Phil: It's a long time for a VR game.

Dave: Yeah, I guess.

Dave: Yeah, it is.

Phil: That has to be on the upper end.

Phil: Well, I can't think of anything worse than playing a horror game in VR.

Phil: Sorry.

Phil: It is terrifying.

Phil: I can't believe it.

Phil: So that is how you prefer to play REand REand RE?

Dave: I played them all first, regular.

Dave: And then I played VR versions.

Dave: And especially, well, REdid not have the motion controls because the original PlayStation VR was very basic.

Dave: So you had to use a controller.

Dave: It was just an experience of you're in it visually.

Dave: So I'm in it inside my head, but I'm still playing the game with controllers.

Dave: So it kind of breaks the immersion.

Dave: and added the hand motion controllers so you could actually shoot any way you want.

Dave: You pick up a gun, you pick up a virtual gun, you shoot it, you could use one gun in each hand, which you can't really do in the game.

Dave: You can only do it in VR.

Dave: You can shoot at different targets like that becomes like a shooting gallery.

Dave: It is amazing.

Dave: You can do all sorts of crazy stuff with those.

Dave: And then you have to actually manually reload, and that adds a whole layer.

Dave: Fishing a button to reload and actually having to pull out the clip, grabbing another clip from your chest, putting it in, cocking the gun, and then shooting as if something's coming at you, that adds a lot of tension.

Phil: Tom, have you played any first person shooters on the Quest?

Tom: First person shooters?

Tom: I think Boneworks, it's called.

Tom: Or do you mean first person horror games?

Phil: Oh, either.

Tom: Well, Boneworks is a first person shooter.

Tom: I played a little bit of Half-Life Alex as well.

Tom: I need to finish that.

Tom: Played Resident Evil VR a little bit.

Tom: I played Superhot of course.

Phil: Wow, yeah, that would be incredible.

Phil: That I want to do.

Tom: Superhot VR is amazing.

Tom: But it makes...

Tom: I was going to say it makes normal Superhot disappointing, but then I just remembered I was thinking of the sequel.

Tom: The original Superhot is still exceptional, even without VR.

Tom: And I played...

Tom: I forgot what it's called, but it's a cell-shaded horror game.

Phil: Okay, so maybe you're walking dead.

Phil: Did you get to kill Clementine?

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So it's a proven platform for you for first-person shooting?

Tom: Depends on how mobile the first-person shooting is, and in what way it's mobile.

Tom: So for a traditional first-person shooter, like I've also tried playing Doom and Half-Life, the original on it, in VR, and my acclimatization to VR is not such that I can play them yet.

Phil: Yeah, I wouldn't think on those older games it would be much fun.

Dave: No, those games move at like a hundred miles an hour.

Dave: Just try going backwards in one of those games while you're standing still, and your brain just wants to explode.

Dave: Like it doesn't understand what's happening.

Dave: I almost fell.

Dave: I think I was playing the original Doom, I was able to put it in VR.

Dave: That was a mistake.

Dave: Like the going backwards, the sensation your body gets, I don't know what happened.

Dave: I'm like, what is happening?

Dave: I'm like, nope.

Tom: Stop.

Tom: I have that problem with reversing in a racing game as well.

Dave: Yeah, yeah.

Dave: There's something about going backwards and your body's not moving, your brain is like, what's happening?

Dave: I can go forward just fine.

Dave: I'm good from going forward.

Dave: But running backwards like that, not good.

Dave: At least that quick, because in Doom, you go and Doom is just so fast.

Phil: So is that all of what we could say about Resident Evil ?

Tom: No.

Tom: Well, Vader mentioned the boss battles.

Phil: Uh-huh.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And I thought they were mixed because some of them were really good, like the Marguerite one you mentioned.

Tom: And I think, but I think some of them were just like the both Jack boss battles, the setting of them, or Jack boss battles actually, including the final one, the setting of the first ones is great.

Tom: And in one of them, he's driving a car, and trying to run you over, which is absolutely hilarious.

Tom: But the actual gameplay is, I don't know, feels pretty rudimentary compared to the Marguerite boss battle, for example, where you're really just sort of doing basic dodging and hitting him now and then.

Tom: It feels like most of the challenge on the harder default setting is just based around on the fact that he's got a lot of health, rather than requiring you to do anything other than just survive the required length of time.

Tom: And the big finale boss battles, I think, also left a lot to be desired and were similarly very rudimentary, which is, I think, an issue in most Resident Evils.

Tom: When you get to the final bosses in Resident Evil, they're usually just because of the scale of the enemy.

Tom: The actual gameplay ends up being some of the least interesting of any of the boss battles in the game.

Tom: But I think in Resident Evil though it was on a large scale, it wasn't really impressive or interesting in the way some other Resident Evil final bosses are, so that they make up for what ends up being a little bit of a disappointing experience in terms of gameplay.

Dave: Yeah, I could see that for sure.

Dave: But back to Jack's first two boss battles.

Dave: I found it interesting because there were actually multiple ways to do it, and most Resident Evil games don't even have that.

Dave: Especially the car one, you could run them over.

Dave: If you get in the car first or something, you could find a way to stop them before he gets in.

Dave: There are multiple ways to do it.

Dave: In the chainsaw one in that room, you could use the chainsaw, you could skip it, you could use the things in the room.

Dave: I think you could trap them or something.

Dave: There's almost a little level of metal gear where there's optional ways to battle him.

Dave: And I just found that interesting.

Dave: Most Resident Evil games are not that.

Dave: They are just shoot the thing until it dies.

Dave: And then Marguerite was an amazing hide-and-seek, just a horror house.

Dave: It was awesome.

Dave: I still think that's one of the best Resident Evil bosses around.

Dave: And then as you get to the final ones, like you said, all Resident Evil games end with a giant blob thing that's huge, and you just shoot weak points, and that's kind of how it goes.

Dave: You just unload until you run out of ammo.

Dave: And yeah, I would say it got worse as it went on.

Dave: Like those final few were not as good as the earlier ones.

Tom: But overall, I think considering it comes after even if it didn't come after I think it's a very, very impressive achievement that they were willing to take the series in such a new and original direction.

Tom: And I think they also deserve huge credit for doing so while staying true to Resident Evil's roots without relying on sheep nostalgia.

Tom: I think that's probably the most impressive thing in the modern era of gaming, that they were able to have a series that had gone in a direction that most people did not like and found a way to reinvent itself, which wasn't just let's go back to doing everything exactly as how we did in the past.

Tom: Instead, they said let's work out how to translate what we think is important and authentic and enjoyable about a Resident Evil experience in a new direction.

Tom: I think that's a pretty incredible achievement.

Dave: That is absolutely true.

Dave: First, just to switch to first person is big, because a lot of...

Dave: If you've read comments about the Anna Jones game, you know how a lot of the players are with first person and third person gaming.

Dave: There's a kind of a war where a lot of people feel like action adventure games should stick to third person.

Dave: And anytime a franchise goes to first person, that's not traditionally a shooter, there's some pushback.

Dave: And so Capcom, to go that direction, I was one of those when I first saw it.

Dave: I'm like, oh, I'm not too much of a fan of this.

Dave: So once I saw this for VR, it kind of eased it up a bit.

Dave: But I am a traditionally, I love third person.

Dave: So that was just a big gamble just on its own.

Dave: And then to also scrap away every character we know and just come up with Ethan and a totally different environment and a totally new story.

Dave: Yeah, they tied it in later, but that was bold, very bold, and it worked.

Dave: So I applaud them.

Phil: And it's incredible that it's incredible to me that this game was released in

Phil: It does not seem like it was that long ago at all.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: We were just talking about how, you know, these AAA games are taking a long time to develop, but Resident Evil reasonably came out in

Phil: So, you know, a four-year development, I think that's a fantastic turnaround.

Phil: Are we ready to talk about Resident Evil ?

Tom: I am.

Phil: So, now, I have had no experience with Resident Evil

Phil: So, have they used a lot of the same assets, or is it a completely new take?

Phil: What have they done with Resident Evil ?

Dave: Well, no, it's totally new environments, but it is Ethan's model, so it's continuation of Ethan's story.

Dave: So they took the same engine, obviously.

Dave: Oh, that's another thing.

Dave: They created a brand new engine just for these games, which was the RE engine.

Dave: And then that engine allowed them to make these...

Dave: It started as their first-person engine to do in VR, and they've since obviously added third-person with Resident Evil and but it's their way of creating all these games pretty fast for PC, for PlayStation.

Dave: So with that engine comes...

Dave: I don't want to say reusing of assets.

Dave: You will see some items are identical, like this bolt cutter that was in like three or four Resident Evil games in a row.

Dave: Like the gun models are some of the same, but the environment is totally new.

Dave: Totally new enemies.

Dave: Resident Evil is pretty fresh in terms of...

Dave: compared to besides that it's the same guy and it's the same perspective, it seems pretty fresh to me, and it even has different combat.

Dave: The item system is different.

Dave: So they added quite a bit.

Phil: And a different director too.

Phil: He was a writer on Resident Evil and then directed Resident Evil

Phil: So I think that's a healthy thing, changing the director to keep things fresh.

Phil: And also it's good for Capcom because they're developing more talent within their studio by promoting people up and letting them, if they're passionate about something, lead a project.

Tom: Absolutely, yeah.

Dave: And that's something Capcom has always done since the beginning.

Dave: Mikami created the series, and then he let Kamiya do part two.

Dave: And now Kamiya has become his own legendary director.

Dave: And they kept allowing the next person to come up and do the next game.

Dave: Every once in a while, Mikami came back to kind of do his thing with Resident Evil and Resident Evil Remake.

Dave: But yeah, most of them were new directors each time.

Phil: Yeah, this one was directed by Muramasa Sato.

Phil: I know nothing about him at all.

Phil: Do you know if he's directing the next one?

Dave: He might.

Dave: Yeah, usually.

Dave: So there's obviously a few teams working at the same time.

Dave: So the Resident Evil team did Resident Evil and they're going to do Resident Evil I believe.

Dave: And then the Resident Evil team did and they're working on their next remake, whatever that will be.

Phil: So what about the setting?

Phil: Tom, what about the setting for this game?

Phil: I should have asked.

Phil: Have you finished Resident Evil ?

Tom: Yes, I have.

Tom: I finished it quite some time ago.

Tom: It's set in an unnamed village in Romania, and the setting is definitely one of the most interesting parts of the game.

Phil: Since we don't know the name of the village, do we just refer to its inhabitants as the village people?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Excellent.

Tom: But it starts off actually sort of like Resident Evil with a more narrative-heavy prologue.

Tom: In a...

Tom: This time we could use the word Bucolic House with Ethan and...

Tom: I don't know if we could say they're spoilers from Resident Evil given it's a direct sequel, but with the girl he was looking for in Resident Evil and their child, their brief bucolic bliss is interrupted and he ends up wandering through the snow, looking for them once again under even more dire circumstances and ends up in this titular village.

Tom: And everything is snow-swept, and at the beginning you're encountering villagers, and they're talking about a witch, I think, who is a religious figure who they're all both worshipping and afraid of, and they're warning you about werewolves and things like this.

Tom: It's very interesting.

Tom: Again, a sort of new direction for Resident Evil, but also sort of not, where they're making references to folklore and myth in a interesting for Resident Evil setting, which is a very immediately engrossing setting.

Tom: But there is one thing that immediately stood out to me, which made the opening a little bit more difficult to appreciate, was this is probably the first Resident Evil I've played that has any sort of survival element to the survival horror, at least on the hard setting.

Tom: At the beginning, before you have upgraded your equipment, the amount of health the enemies have is just completely ridiculous.

Tom: It takes like seven headshots to kill the enemies at the beginning of the game.

Tom: It's completely and utterly ridiculous.

Tom: And until you do get a few upgrades, just really draws out sequences far, far more than they should be drawn out.

Tom: And it's not a particularly enjoying challenge either, because the challenge purely comes from just the ridiculous amount of health the enemies have as opposed to the way they attack you, which is a slightly misleading start to the game as well, because one of the things that Vader is actually alluding to in the Resident Evil impressions is, as the game goes on and you get better equipment, is the variety in enemies is really, really good.

Tom: And the way enemies attack you and how you need to take advantage of their weak points is all really varied and create some pretty interesting combat scenarios.

Tom: But at the beginning, it's just, here's some enemies that you have to spend two minutes killing because we couldn't really, I don't know, balance the opening of the game for some reason or figure out a way of making the opening areas challenging in a more creative sort of way.

Tom: It's a really weird sort of opening if you're playing it on hard.

Tom: Was that your experience at all?

Dave: Yeah, well, I think I played, I don't know about hard, well, yes, there's a hard and then I think you unlock like super hard or something like that.

Dave: But yeah, the beginning of that game is so, it's probably the hardest part of the game.

Tom: It is, absolutely.

Dave: It is really crazy.

Dave: Like they start you off with like nothing and you get bombarded with like werewolves coming out of everywhere.

Dave: And there's this big dude that chasing you and you do not have enough ammo to at all.

Dave: Like you just, and it is on a timer, but I don't think it like tells you it's on a timer.

Dave: So you're just kind of like left wondering, like am I supposed to, like where am I supposed to go?

Dave: And you're just supposed to kind of hold out for like a certain amount of time.

Tom: I think you also have to kill a certain amount of enemies as well.

Dave: You're right.

Dave: I think you have to kill first a certain amount, then you spawn like this guy, and then you have to wait like a few minutes.

Dave: And that is, it's hard.

Dave: And especially when you get into like the really hard, the harder like difficulty levels, it is.

Dave: That's the hardest part.

Dave: There are entire YouTube videos like teaching you like, this is what you have to do.

Dave: You have to like hide in the corner, maybe.

Dave: You have to find like a little corner upstairs in this barn.

Dave: Like maybe that's like the best spot, because then you can shoot things if they come upstairs.

Dave: And you just have to kind of cheese it almost in a way.

Dave: And that's kind of not good.

Dave: You compare that to, let's say, Resident Evil which the opening section is one of the greatest designed, I say levels in video game history.

Dave: And it teaches you everything you need to know, and it's well balanced, and you learn all your stuff in that little village attack.

Dave: This tries to do that, but fails in this execution where it's teaching you.

Dave: I just felt panicked, and I didn't know what the hell was happening the whole time.

Phil: Maybe they put that narrative ahead of you learning what you should be doing, that maybe they just wanted to create that atmosphere at the start of the game.

Dave: Maybe, I don't know.

Dave: But yeah, a lot of Resident Evil games can ease you into things, and this one was like, nope, nope, we're just gonna throw that shit at you.

Dave: And then it slows down, which is funny.

Dave: So it goes crazy.

Dave: And then it's like, okay, now we're gonna slow down, and I would ease you into it.

Dave: I'm like, what was that?

Phil: So it did get some criticism for later on in the game from what I've read here that for being too action-oriented with too much run and gun, sort of returning back to some elements of REis that right?

Dave: Absolutely.

Dave: So where Resident Evil was like the version of the old Resident Evil, like, hey, let's bring back item boxes, let's bring back limited inventory.

Dave: Resident Evil was like, okay, let's just bring back Resident Evil let's kind of do it our own way.

Dave: And so this one is a lot more Resident Evil -ish.

Dave: I don't know, it never reaches the heights of Resident Evil but it still does a pretty good job.

Tom: I think it's also Resident Evil -ish, a bit to its detriment as well, because with Resident Evil the way they approached returning to their roots was in a very different way.

Tom: It was, let's take these elements that we think are good from the early Resident Evil and do them in a new way in a completely new setting, whereas there are very obvious similarities between many, many settings in Resident Evil and Resident Evil

Tom: It's really, really riffing on elements from Resident Evil and at no point does it in any way come across as doing any of those things better than Resident Evil which is obviously a big ask, but it also...

Tom: I don't know if you want to reference something like that in such an on-the-nose way.

Tom: If you can't reach the same heights.

Dave: Exactly.

Dave: And that's why Resident Evil to me...

Dave: There are parts of Resident Evil where I'll say it's better than Resident Evil

Dave: It has way better enemy variety.

Dave: The combat is obviously better.

Dave: I find it's funny because it's like a roller coaster, and I'll get into how they designed the game.

Dave: It's just a crazy game.

Dave: But Resident Evil is more consistently, like, tonally and more gameplay-wise more consistent as a whole game.

Dave: Resident Evil has these weird ups and downs.

Dave: It's a little bit all over the place, and you could tell it wants to be Resident Evil but it never gets, really doesn't get there.

Dave: To me, like, the closest area in that game that felt like a Resident Evil level was the, what was it called, the hideout, where the werewolves live, like their compound.

Dave: And there's, like, this attack where you're, they start coming off about other sides, and there are red barrels of explosive here, and there's, like, zip lines that you could use to go to one place to another.

Dave: It's this really elaborate, like, level where you could, you could actually maneuver yourself up and down ladders, and they're coming at all sides, and I felt like, okay, that's how Resident Evil is.

Dave: Like, each level was really well designed to allow you to have multiple ways to attack.

Dave: But most of the game of Resident Evil is not that.

Dave: Most of it is, like, still cramped hallways, and, like, kind of old-school Resident Evil design, but with a lot more action.

Dave: It doesn't work as well.

Dave: Especially the way Ethan moves, and how he's kind of slower than, let's say, Leon in Resident Evil

Dave: And the enemies are a lot more tanky.

Dave: They take a lot more hits.

Dave: So it never feels as visceral as when you shoot someone in Resident Evil and they react, like, immediately.

Dave: I think those things combined kind of hurt the action style they're going for in

Tom: Definitely.

Tom: One thing I would say is, I think if you look at the structure of the game, it's really not like Resident Evil

Tom: I think the one thing you can say that I think they, I think nailed, like, some parts maybe are not so intricately designed, like the factory section, where it's, I think, too much of a shooter without having environments that make the shooting particularly interesting.

Tom: But structurally, I really liked that they took it in a, I think again, a new direction for the series, because they're, the way they both have an open world where you're moving in a way that sort of feels organically area to area, yet at the same time, the areas often have totally different gameplay styles.

Tom: So there'll be one area, for example, which is a highlight of the game for me, where there is basically no combat whatsoever, and it's entirely a puzzle-solving and horror survival section.

Tom: So I think that is where it really excels.

Tom: The other area is also the characters and the story.

Tom: I think it's, in terms of the characters and the story, easily one of the best Resident Evils.

Tom: It manages to take ridiculously over-the-top characters in terms of the villains, and combine them with the slightly more down-to-earth protagonists in a way where they complement each other very well.

Tom: And the story, I think, is one of the most personal and most emotionally interesting stories in any Resident Evil.

Tom: And the other thing that I think was very, very well done is the boss battles as well.

Phil: Before you get under that, though, the fact that the guy was the head writer for obviously is why that was a strength for Resident Evil if you've got a writer as the director.

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: Now, back to the boss battles you were saying.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: The boss battles, I think, are also a highlight as well.

Tom: And the way they're integrated into the game.

Tom: There's the Lady Dimitrescu.

Tom: I think they're her daughters, right?

Tom: So she has these three daughters who will be attacking you at various points throughout the story, sort of like Mr.

Tom: X in a way.

Tom: And at some points, you've just got to run away from them, and you eventually end up with boss battles where you're fighting them.

Tom: And although the battles themselves are basically the same, or very similar anyway, they take place in very different environments.

Tom: So they end up being, each of them, pretty unique experiences.

Tom: And I think also has some of the best large scale boss battles.

Tom: One of them, the final boss battle, I think it's the final one anyway, is just so aesthetically engaging.

Tom: It looks like something out of Metal Gear Solid, even if it's still pretty simple in terms of gameplay.

Tom: I think they really managed to make it a very exciting and interesting experience compared to what they managed to do in Resident Evil

Tom: I think, to me, the boss battles, Marguerite is a highlight of the whole series, but I think the general quality of a lot of boss battles in is also up there with a lot of the series.

Dave: Yeah, I would agree with that as well.

Dave: This one has some really fun, like you said, just really creative boss battles, and how they use the environments and especially, I think, the one you're talking about, which is like a mech fight.

Dave: It's awesome.

Dave: I mean, it's so cool.

Dave: Yeah, they go all out.

Dave: And I would say, for a final boss, this has one of the better final bosses because it's not a giant blob.

Dave: It's like this woman, and she had all these powers, and it's like a really actually, you know, intense kind of skill-based fight.

Dave: You got to learn her pattern, dodge.

Dave: She's really well done.

Dave: So it's a really great boss.

Dave: I love the fish thing.

Dave: Like, there's just so many different styles of bosses in this game.

Dave: Overall, yes, the boss is an eight.

Dave: If you count them all, they're better than seven.

Dave: But as a two-game little duology kind of thing, yeah, they have some of the best bosses of the entire series, I would say.

Dave: Like, these two games really push the bosses to a different level.

Dave: I would say Resident Evil is still probably my favorite, but then these two probably come right after.

Dave: And then with the locations, well, I want to say, like, when they were designing this game, they wanted to make this game like an amusement park.

Dave: That's what their goal was.

Dave: So if you see the map, it looks like a Disney World kind of thing.

Dave: You got Main Street with the village, and then you got the castles, like, up here.

Dave: That's like fantasy land or whatever.

Dave: You got, like, your different lands, and they wanted to make each section different.

Dave: So you go to the castle, and that's like its own gameplay, like, section.

Dave: Then you have what you mentioned, which was the house of the puppet guy, or what was his name?

Dave: So you go there, and that is one of the creepiest...

Dave: That's the scariest thing that Resident Evil's ever done.

Dave: That is stuff, stuff of nightmares.

Dave: And then DR, whoo!

Dave: That section, yeet!

Dave: The scariest thing.

Dave: The problem with that, though, because it is a puzzle-heavy, non-combat section, on replays, it is pretty boring.

Dave: And if a lot of Resident Evil players, like me, like to replay the game and kind of speed run through them, that's kind of a slog when you already know what to do, when you're just kind of going through the motions.

Dave: But as a first-time experience, brilliant, brilliant.

Dave: But yeah, each section has its own little style and kind of theme to it.

Dave: And that regard is really cool.

Dave: It's a bit disjointed, but it's still really, really fun how they designed the game.

Dave: And Resident Evil is just a fun ride.

Dave: It's just...

Dave: Yeah, it's fun.

Dave: Where is a lot more creepy.

Dave: It's a lot more...

Dave: If you're into the whole...

Dave: It's almost like...

Dave: Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Resident Evil style.

Dave: You're in the swamp the whole time.

Dave: This is like you're...

Dave: You're all over the place.

Dave: You're fighting different kinds of monsters.

Dave: It goes from the hallways searching for stuff to all out action.

Dave: There's a lot to it.

Dave: I like variety in my games.

Dave: Resident Evil is a ton of fun.

Dave: And the story is very interesting.

Dave: This is where Ethan to me became an interesting character.

Dave: Because in he was very boring to me.

Dave: I don't think he had much to do.

Dave: I think it was pretty one note.

Dave: He didn't say much.

Dave: And in he kind of has a personality.

Dave: And he kind of starts having like a sort of...

Dave: He has confidence in himself.

Dave: Where in he didn't know what was going on.

Dave: Here, you could believe that this guy could handle himself.

Dave: And he starts making fun of everybody.

Dave: And it kind of has those cheesy one liners like Resident Evil does.

Tom: Did you have much more else to add?

Dave: I wanted to ask you about what you think of Chris Redfield's involvement in these kind of like two games.

Tom: I thought it was interesting.

Tom: I like him being presented as an ambiguous character.

Tom: I think he works well in that role, I thought.

Dave: Yeah, yeah, it was.

Dave: Well, in he's there just kind of at the end, just to be like, hey, it is Resident Evil.

Dave: Look at me, even though he has a new face.

Dave: That face, I don't know.

Dave: Have you gone into why the face was different, or did that surprise you at all in Resident Evil ?

Tom: Well, what was the last one he appeared in?

Tom: Was it ?

Dave: Before that was, no, he was in

Tom: okay.

Tom: Well, I haven't played

Tom: So the way I was thinking of it was, it's a generation later, he's probably going to look a bit different.

Dave: Yeah, well, I mean, that was, to me, that wasn't even him.

Dave: I was confused.

Dave: They said he's Chris, and I'm like, that's not Chris.

Dave: I don't know who that is.

Dave: So this is an imposter, that's not Chris.

Dave: But then they said, oh, yeah, we just kind of like changed the face, and we're like, whoa.

Dave: And then they fixed it completely in because he looks like Chris again.

Tom: Yeah.

Dave: Resident Evil is this weird, strange version of Chris that it just stands out.

Dave: It's very strange.

Dave: But yeah, he's in just to be kind of like, hey, we're going to connect this to Resident Evil.

Dave: It's still, you know, we still have the old cast that's somewhere around there.

Dave: And he'll still kind of like hero Chris.

Dave: He comes and saves the day, whatever.

Dave: is interesting, what they do with him.

Dave: But it's kind of that story where they do things where it's annoying that they just don't talk to each other.

Dave: And that's why things get complicated.

Dave: And it's stupid because any normal person would explain the situation immediately, and that would solve all the mystery and everything.

Dave: But no, because this is a story that they want to keep the player intrigued and all that.

Dave: People just don't talk to each other.

Dave: So Chris does some horrible things that are easily explained, but he does not explain it.

Dave: So it leaves Ethan very confused and the audience very confused on purpose.

Dave: And that is...

Dave: I do like the story.

Dave: It's a fun story, but that part is pretty lazy to me.

Dave: Like lazy storytelling.

Dave: That is just complicating the story for no reason when any normal person would just explain the situation.

Tom: The way I took it though was that's like classic Resident Evil stupidity.

Dave: Yes, yes, it is.

Dave: So in that regard, again, Resident Evil was like a return to all the fun and stupidity of the series.

Dave: Resident Evil was taking itself a little bit more serious.

Dave: It still felt like Resident Evil, but it was a little bit scarier, like horror, very horror Resident Evil.

Dave: And Resident Evil is back to kind of just over-the-top action, explosion, boom.

Dave: There's a Chris section where you're basically an army.

Dave: You're one guy and you go like mow down the entire village by yourself.

Dave: So it has all those moments of action and horror, and it's fun.

Dave: But yeah, it's interesting.

Dave: Chris was a lot more involved in

Dave: They could have done a little bit better, I felt, with that part where he could have just talked to Ethan, and they could have been more as a team, rather than this fake animosity that they created between them.

Dave: But it still works out.

Tom: The other thing actually, I can't remember what the details were that led me to think this about REbut I feel like the sort of very, very deeply buried sub-themes that are more prevalent in Revelations and maybe other Resident Evil spin-offs about the power of corporations and government conspiracies, they felt like they were a bit more prevalent in both REbut particularly REbut I can't recall why exactly I thought that, because I didn't keep any notes, unfortunately.

Tom: Was that your experience at all?

Tom: It left me feeling like REwas almost Metal Gear Solid-like at times.

Dave: That's eight.

Dave: Seven more, because seven was about the discovery that a company was doing experiments on a boat outside the Louisiana town, and everything leaked into the water, and that's why all the family got transformed, and they ruined an entire town, or whatever.

Dave: The experiment had gone wrong, which is a Resident Evil story, usually.

Dave: But eight was more about that.

Dave: Eight was weird, because what they were trying to do was try to tie this into the origins of Umbrella.

Dave: And this is the village where they originally found the virus, or something.

Dave: So you kind of get into that, but there wasn't like no...

Dave: I don't feel like there was an evil corporation running eight.

Dave: It was mostly just the creatures that lived in this village were trying to take it back, or something like that.

Dave: And then Chris kind of has involvement, and I don't know why his unit is called...

Dave: Well, he has his own unit now, but then there's another umbrella, and whatever.

Dave: They keep bringing back umbrella for whatever reason.

Dave: But yeah, it was...

Dave: Eight is more its own thing about, like, this is just the origins of where all the gooey, just evil virus stuff kind of begins.

Tom: One other thing I have to bring up is...

Tom: What did you think of the obsession with Lady Dimitrescu?

Tom: Were you one of the adherents to that?

Dave: She has a certain look to her, and she's, you know, she's a well...

Dave: She's a voluptuous woman.

Dave: But no, I was not like...

Dave: I'm not crazy about her.

Dave: She's an evil, crazy vampire lady, and she's gigantic.

Dave: So I don't know.

Dave: That would be kind of weird.

Dave: But I think that is genius marketing.

Dave: I think once they realized they had something there, they went all in, and then they just, they just, you know, kind of said, hey, we see we got a fandom, and let's just dive into it.

Dave: And they put her everywhere.

Dave: They made sure to highlight her assets.

Dave: And yeah, very, very smart on their part, because, you know, going viral for anything helps a game out tremendously.

Phil: Is she big in VR?

Phil: Like in VR?

Dave: That's where I think, yes, the size difference.

Dave: When you look up, you're like, oh, OK, oh, crap.

Dave: Yeah, that's the everything.

Dave: VR, the scale of location and of the sizes of things is the most impressive in VR.

Tom: One other thing in terms of gameplay, I want to mention was the while the difficult at the beginning is just silly, later on, though, things get a lot easier the further you get in, basically, as you get more and more upgrades.

Tom: I think there's a midpoint in the game where there's this great balance of really challenging combat that is up there with maybe not the best moments of Resident Evil but are similarly enjoyable for different reasons because here it's more about the challenge.

Tom: And I remember moments in Village where I'd be like, oh shit, here's this number of enemies and this giant enemy that I have to deal with and finding it a really imposing experience, which is not really the case in previous Resident Evil.

Tom: So they do manage to leverage the difficulty really well later on if at the beginning it's a bit ham-fisted.

Tom: So they definitely deserve a lot of credit for that.

Dave: Yeah, they do, yeah.

Dave: Yeah, it's a pretty well-balanced game.

Dave: I think that part is the stronghold, which is, that was the name I was looking for.

Dave: That's the area where all the werewolves are.

Dave: That's where most of the main action takes place.

Dave: I think that's brilliantly designed area.

Dave: I think that's where the action hits its peak, and it's really good.

Dave: It's very well designed.

Tom: That was definitely one of the highlights, yep.

Tom: The last thing I had to say was, the game is set in Romania.

Tom: So why the fuck does Lady Dimitrescu refer to herself as Dimitrescu?

Tom: Because it's not a French name and she's not French.

Tom: It should be something like Dimitrescu or something along those lines.

Tom: Was this some sort of intelligent writing where she was being presented as this pretentious, high class lady in this country bumpkin village, or was it just incompetence on the writer's part where they thought that a Romanian name somehow became Dimitrescu?

Dave: I'm just going to go with the theory of whatever sounds better is what they went with, and I don't think they gave any thought to it.

Phil: The pronunciation, was that how it was pronounced in the game?

Tom: Dimitrescu.

Phil: Yeah, see, because it's spelled like a Romanian name.

Phil: It's more like...

Tom: It is a Romanian name.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: So just the pronunciation of it was wrong, but it's an authentic Romanian name.

Tom: Yes, just a very inauthentic pronunciation.

Phil: It was a critical and commercial success.

Phil: Looking at the lifetime sales of Resident Evil games as of December

Phil: Now, David, you're going to know the answer, so don't spoil it.

Phil: Number one best-selling Resident Evil game, million units moved.

Phil: You want to guess, Tom?

Tom: Resident Evil or ?

Phil: Resident Evil

Phil: So what you've got to remember is just the size of the user base is so much larger now that it's easy for these lighter generation games to conquer the earlier ones.

Dave: And let's not forget the PC.

Dave: I've got to give Captain Credit for expanding the market because Resident Evil was a console, pretty much console only series.

Dave: And I think it's found new life being very much in PC and they have a pretty good balance of buys on Steam.

Phil: So with that in mind, the top three best-selling games, million is Resident Evil

Phil: Number two is Resident Evil with million sold.

Phil: And then number three is this game, Resident Evil Village with million games sold.

Dave: Well, you're looking at the list that does not have the combined sales of the older games.

Dave: So it's going to split Resident Evil like five different ways, it's going to split Resident Evil a few ways.

Dave: Resident Evil is still the second best.

Dave: So Resident Evil just overtook as the second best Resident Evil game in sales.

Dave: And then I would think is about to.

Dave: I think Resident Evil if you combine it, it's at or

Dave: And then is right behind it.

Dave: So should pass shortly.

Tom: And then there's

Phil: Even so, for these games in their single versions, to be towards the top of the list is impressive.

Dave: Yeah, it's only been a few years.

Phil: And if you just look at that, Tom, you were quite right, like just looking at it strictly as singular releases, and do come in at and which is what you would imagine.

Phil: On the basis of every great game, the sequel always sells better, because everyone is expecting the next game to be better, and there's more people invested in it and all the rest of it.

Phil: And critically, really well received as well.

Phil: Anything else for Resident Evil guys?

Tom: That's all I had?

Dave: Just I want to ask Tom, just between these two games, which one would you say is better than the other?

Dave: Or do you have a preference?

Tom: I think I'd probably have to go with Resident Evil overall, just because I think it's a lot more creative than was.

Tom: But at the same time, there's moments in that stick in my memory more than moments in

Dave: Yeah, that's good.

Dave: I view them as a pair.

Dave: It's the Ethan trilogy or duology, whether it's the Ethan part of the story.

Dave: The first person really sets them apart from the rest of the series, and they both do different things.

Dave: But I find that in the end, I score them almost the same.

Dave: I think they're both fantastic games, but I kind of go back and forth between which one I like better.

Dave: I much rather replay because it's an action game.

Dave: But then I replay and I'm like, this game is pretty brilliant in its design.

Dave: So I kind of respect as a full game, and especially as a one-time experience, probably more than

Dave: So I just go back and forth.

Dave: To me, they're almost tied.

Dave: I might as well just stick them together.

Dave: and are always going to go next to each other in my rankings of the series.

Phil: Kind of like a Super Mario Galaxy and scenario where the second game is better and has more polish, but it would not have existed without the first.

Dave: In a way, yeah.

Tom: There's one other thing we should mention.

Tom: The Resident Evil DLC is such a missed opportunity.

Dave: Oh, yeah.

Dave: It's one of the worst DLCs I've ever played in the series.

Dave: Yeah, it's bad.

Tom: It felt like they put in so much effort for so little return.

Dave: And they set it up with the end of stories like, I don't want to spoil it, but yeah, it's like a big deal.

Dave: This is going to be really interesting.

Dave: What are they going to do?

Dave: And you get that?

Dave: Really?

Dave: That's what we waited for?

Dave: Basically nothing.

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Dave: Yeah, and it's funny because Resident Evil I think, had some of the best DLC ever.

Dave: Like that was...

Dave: Did you play any of the DLC of Resident Evil ?

Tom: Yep, I did.

Dave: And it was like a potpourri of just random stuff.

Tom: It was amazing.

Dave: It was like a card game.

Dave: There was like an escape room puzzle one.

Dave: There was a narrative really creepy one.

Dave: There was all kinds of those rogue-like survival game.

Dave: And then the two big expansions, which was the Chris one, and then one where you get to play as like Jack's brother or something like that and punch people in the face.

Dave: And it was like awesome.

Phil: It was fun.

Dave: So like had so much going for it.

Dave: And then really died.

Phil: This does seem like a lost opportunity.

Phil: I wonder if it was handed off to another team.

Phil: But you wouldn't think so.

Dave: That's a good question.

Dave: I should look into that.

Phil: Look into it, report back.

Tom: Yeah, we'll do.

Phil: Okay, Dvada, thank you very much for joining us.

Phil: Two shows in a row.

Phil: We've really appreciated it.

Phil: Hope to have you back again some other time.

Dave: Absolutely.

Dave: It's always a pleasure to talk to you guys, and especially about Resident Evil.

Dave: So yeah, I'll be around.

Dave: Just let me know.

Phil: We won't wait for the next Resident Evil numbered game to have you back on.

Dave: Gotcha.

Dave: Alright guys, have a good night.

Phil: Well, that was great to hear from Dvada.

Phil: So with that, we'll end up our What We've Been Playing section and go on to Phil's questions for Tom from other people's podcasts.

Phil: But before we do that, I want to give you an opportunity to at least let our long-term listeners have a little bit of trademark banner.

Phil: Have you been up to anything?

Phil: Have you got any interesting stories or anecdotes?

Tom: I have another car-related story slash anecdote.

Phil: Okay, sounds good.

Tom: So, normally, once you've been hooning a certain amount in this car, you will need to top up the oil.

Tom: And this has been a relatively consistent thing.

Tom: But the last time I did that, it turned out that I did not need to top up the oil after all.

Tom: So I ended up with too much oil in the engine.

Phil: They have a stick that goes into the engine to tell you how you get too much, too little, full, low.

Phil: So you just go by the glug.

Phil: You just open up the cap and just glug, glug, glug.

Tom: I go by how much oil I've smelled burning.

Phil: And do you do this when the engine is hot?

Tom: Checking the oil?

Phil: No, putting new oil in.

Tom: I put the new oil in usually when it's cold.

Phil: Okay, that's good.

Phil: That's for listeners at home.

Phil: Do not put oil into an engine while it is hot.

Tom: Unless you want the oil to go everywhere.

Phil: Yeah, oil to go everywhere.

Phil: It just doesn't work.

Phil: It doesn't work.

Tom: Okay, so the engine temperature was actually what led to this issue, because I discovered that leaving the engine off for or minutes is not long enough to get a consistent reading of how high the oil is.

Tom: It needs to have been off for at least minutes, or you end up with vastly inconsistent oil level readings, which is what led to this issue.

Phil: I see.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: But so I ended up with definitely too much oil in the engine, and it was not just based on the dipstick, but also the performance of the engine as well.

Tom: So this led me to a quest on how to figure out how to remove oil from the engine without jack stands.

Tom: And a few...

Phil: Okay, I can see where this is heading.

Phil: Keeping in mind my experience between petrol sniffing and diesel sniffing, because I didn't know whether I had diesel or petrol in two containers.

Phil: And the comical result of me not passing out, but picking up a brand new hobby.

Phil: Okay, so now...

Tom: Were you able to successfully identify which was which?

Phil: I can now.

Phil: It's committed to memory.

Phil: No, I couldn't then.

Phil: So, okay, so you've got too much oil.

Phil: Now the obvious thing to do would be to climb under and take out that little sump oil plug and drop it out onto the ground into a container.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Right, so you didn't do that because is a car too close to the ground that you can't get under it without jacking it up?

Tom: I think my skull can just barely fit under it, but it's a very difficult thing to do.

Phil: Okay, so your car is skull height.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yeah, and you shouldn't get under a car when it's on a jack anyway.

Phil: You've got to use proper stands.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: If I were to jack up the car, I would also use the stands as well.

Tom: Excellent.

Phil: Okay, but you were busy or otherwise distracted.

Phil: And so how did you solve this problem?

Tom: So the first thing I attempted to use was a plunger and a plastic pipe.

Tom: But oil is very viscous.

Phil: Yes, it is.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: You know this from your oil use you sniff petrol and you sniff diesel, but I assume that you drink oil.

Tom: Is that correct?

Phil: No, I do not drink oil.

Phil: I've been exposed to a lot of oil.

Phil: I'm around oil a fair bit.

Phil: I was using oil yesterday, in fact.

Phil: But yeah, it's got a lot of viscosity.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So other than the difficulty in getting this plastic tube through the end of the whole passage that leads to the sump from the dipstick, which took a long time, the solution I had to come up with was wiring the tube to the dipstick and then sticking both the dipstick and the tube in that way.

Tom: The oil was, of course, too viscous for at least my level of strength to be able to draw into the plunger.

Tom: So that plan did not work.

Tom: But having had the idea of removing the oil from the dipstick hole, I was determined to try and find a way to do this, rather than the obvious solution, because I do know some people with jack stands, and jacks as well.

Phil: I don't want to spoil the story, but does this involve a vacuum cleaner?

Tom: No, it doesn't.

Phil: Does it involve some sort of sex toy?

Tom: No.

Phil: Okay, then continue.

Tom: You've just ruined the whole story, because now people know that this could have gone in a much more interesting direction.

Phil: Okay, so you're sucking the oil out of this little dipstick hole?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: But it's not coming?

Tom: No, correct.

Tom: So the plunger failed, because it required too much strength.

Tom: So I looked around on the internet, and apparently people make pumps precisely for this purpose.

Tom: Wow.

Tom: So I bought from Amazon an electric pump that you connect to the car battery by, I don't know if it's a brand or just a label that some generic Chinese part maker uses, called a RhinoMate.

Tom: And in the various things that it pumps, in the Amazon description with those very long names, one of the things it pumped was edible oil, which is why I thought you may have been consuming engine oil.

Phil: No, no, not at all.

Phil: So the, okay, so you're using the RhinoMate.

Phil: Did you try and siphon it?

Tom: Well, actually, my sister tried to siphon it.

Tom: I'm not going to try and suck oil out of the sump.

Tom: But my sister did.

Phil: That's what I thought.

Phil: That's where I thought this was heading with you trying to siphon it out.

Phil: Okay, thank God.

Phil: Okay, you didn't at least.

Tom: My sister attempted it.

Tom: She was actually able to suck oil into the tube, but we could not get a siphon successfully working.

Tom: So siphoning also failed.

Tom: And she also, I do not believe, ingested any of this supposedly edible oil.

Phil: I'm leaving this all alone.

Phil: Okay, so the oil pump, it's actually made to move around vegetable oil, is it?

Tom: It's designed for engine oils, transmission oils, various automotive related oils, but incongruously, among all of these automotive fluids is listed edible oil.

Phil: Yeah, like vegetable oil.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: So with the RhinoMate, I'm going to guess it cost you $

Tom: We're in Australia, so it was $

Phil: $?

Phil: That's including postage?

Tom: Yep, including postage.

Phil: Okay, then there you go.

Phil: I was good at my estimating.

Phil: So, and then it's battery operated.

Phil: You got to hook it up to your car battery.

Tom: That's right.

Phil: What are you going to use this thing for?

Phil: Because you're never going to do this again, are you?

Tom: Hopefully not.

Phil: So what are you going to do with it?

Tom: I don't know what we use it for in the future.

Tom: Maybe for pumping edible oil.

Tom: That's all I can think of.

Phil: I've got a similar type thing for pumping the water that gathers in the top of my tank next to the house.

Phil: So yeah, so what do you think?

Phil: Is it good?

Phil: Would you recommend The Rhino Mate?

Tom: Well, so I connect it to the battery, or rather I stick the tube down into the sump, then I connect it to the battery.

Tom: And what do you think happens?

Phil: You had it the wrong way, and it started sucking air into the oil stick dipstick hole.

Tom: I had it around the correct way, and it started sucking air into the oil stick dipstick hole.

Phil: So what did this do?

Phil: Just make a huge mess?

Tom: It didn't make a huge mess, it just resulted in some bubbling.

Phil: Well, just be glad you weren't using this thing to get blood in or out of your vein, because otherwise you'd be pumping oxygen into your blood system.

Tom: So, and it only can work one way to be useful, because there's a small tube, which can fit into the dipstick hole, and there's a large tube, which you use to evacuate the fluid.

Tom: So it can only work one way, reasonably.

Tom: But so then I think, well, this is just a basic motor.

Tom: So logically, if I put it on around the wrong way, maybe it will work in reverse.

Phil: The way you should have done it the first time around.

Phil: I'm not putting this on RhinoMate.

Tom: I am, because it says in the instructions, right, the positive needs to be connected to the positive, and the negative to the negative.

Phil: Makes sense.

Phil: Oh, okay, so you're swapping around the polarities, yep.

Tom: Yeah, so if you connect the positive to the positive, the suck end blows and the blow end sucks.

Tom: Right?

Phil: Yep.

Tom: If you connect the negative to the positive, and the positive to the negative, then the sucking end sucks, and the blowing end blows.

Phil: Sounds like our show, okay?

Phil: It both sucks and blows.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: So the error was not mine.

Tom: The error was purely Rhinomates, because either they labeled the polarities wrong, or they connected the wires backwards.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Was one of them red, and the other one just white or black?

Tom: One was red, one was black, and they were both labeled with positive and negative signs as well.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So I can confirm that most definitely the polarity was incorrectly labeled or connected.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So to finish this story, did you get your oil level to the correct level?

Tom: Yes, I did get the oil level to the correct level.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: Are you going to give it a score?

Tom: I'm going to give it a, I think, a out of because ultimately it did what it was meant to do.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: So it deserves a positive score.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: While we're on an automotive topic, before we go on to Phil's questions for Tom from other people's podcasts, I did watch the Gran Turismo movie.

Phil: Have you seen it?

Tom: No, I have not.

Phil: It's available on Amazon Prime or Disney Plus, I think, one of those here in Australia.

Phil: And it's loosely based somewhat on a real event where Nissan had a contest for Gran Turismo players, and they selected the world's best Gran Turismo players, put them into a training camp so that they could compete in Formula One.

Phil: So, yeah, it was...

Phil: I'm going to say it was OK.

Phil: I'd probably give it a out of

Phil: Maybe that's a bit too charitable.

Phil: Yeah, I'll give it a out of

Phil: You don't have to play every...

Phil: have played every Gran Turismo to understand it.

Tom: Do you have to fight any Gran Turismo to understand it?

Phil: You don't, you don't.

Phil: It's just basically about a gruff coach who doesn't think these video game nerds should be doing this stuff.

Phil: And then they all, in the end, come together to believe in each other.

Phil: And I won't spoil it.

Phil: I didn't look into the guy who it was based on, but apparently they have moved the events of his life around so it's better for the movie as opposed to what happened in his real life.

Phil: But as a piece of entertainment...

Tom: He's now, I believe, a professional racing car driver, but not in Formula One.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: But there's some major spoilers along the way that are in the movie that didn't happen in the sequence, that happened in real life, that was moved around so that he could be inspired by those events that never actually happened until much later.

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, it's not offensive.

Phil: I mean, it's certainly something to watch while you're doing something else.

Tom: Well, depending on what those events were, it sounds like it may be offensive.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I know, I mean, the game itself wasn't offensive.

Phil: The movie itself wasn't offensive.

Phil: But like I said, it's not something you'd sit down and watch by itself.

Phil: You definitely want to be doing something else while it's on.

Tom: I'm just saying, moving the death of his grandmother to become a formative movement is pretty offensive.

Phil: If that's what happened, which I'm not going to say did or didn't.

Phil: So with that, we'll jump into Phil's questions for Tom from other people's podcasts, and then close out episode

Phil: I'll give you an easy one here.

Phil: David from Texas writes in, would Halo or Gears, which were once generation-defining, but are now practically dead, be reinvigorated by coming to and finding a new audience on PlayStation?

Phil: So this was obviously written before the big announcement.

Phil: Would Halo and Gears, which were once generation-defining, would they be reinvigorated by finding a new audience on PlayStation?

Tom: Maybe.

Tom: Halo was sort of reinvigorated moving to PC.

Tom: So I think it could work.

Phil: It couldn't hurt, and that's for sure.

Phil: Though I've got to think that if someone was drawn to Halo, let's just keep Gears off to the side for now.

Phil: If someone was drawn to Halo, by now they surely would have gone over to the PC or the Xbox and given it a try.

Phil: I don't know how many casual PlayStation gamers who only play games on the PlayStation would be drawn to Halo.

Phil: I guess it would be a little bit like Power World.

Phil: They might be drawn initially, and then they'll hang on to some, but then they'll lose a fair amount as well.

Tom: I think you don't necessarily need to be previously drawn to it, but now becoming available to you could make it interesting in and of itself.

Phil: Yeah, possibly.

Phil: I don't know that it would be enough to reinvigorate the whole franchise, though.

Tom: That might be a step too far.

Phil: Yeah, it needs more than just more people at this point, I think.

Phil: Randy in Portland has a simple one.

Phil: Does one need to play the original to fully enjoy a remake?

Tom: I don't think so.

Phil: I certainly don't think so.

Phil: I think if you were to play Resident Evil now on PlayStation or PlayStation or PC, or whatever else, if you'd never played it in the past, you're going to fully enjoy it probably even more so than the people that played the original.

Tom: Definitely.

Phil: Books doesn't work quite as easy as that, I would say.

Phil: But for games that are remade in their entirety, yeah, I agree.

Tom: Book remakes, are they?

Phil: Well, no, I'm saying it's more about the...

Phil: In that case, it's more about the sequel.

Phil: So, you know, I think in a book series, you certainly are losing something if you haven't read the earlier books in the series.

Phil: If you went into Harry Potter as your first time you're reading it, there is no way you're going to fully enjoy that book as if you had read the preceding six games, or even books, or even the preceding three books.

Tom: I think there's a big difference between sequels and remakes, though.

Phil: Oh, big time, yeah, big time.

Tom: But that does also apply to games.

Tom: I think many game series, if not pretty much all of them, you don't need to have played previous games in the series anyway.

Phil: No, and if you were to pick up The New Testament, I don't, you know, that's a remake of The Old Testament, you know, I think you don't, you don't need to read the original.

Tom: I think you don't need to read the remake there.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Eric in Ontario says, have AA games disappeared, or has what we considered a AA game changed?

Tom: Didn't we ask this question in a previous episode?

Phil: Yes, we have.

Phil: So Eric, you're a naughty man.

Phil: You should have listened to the last episode.

Phil: So we'll go on to another one.

Phil: Ben in Boston writes, in talking about Saints Row, which was released in an effort to emulate the success of Grand Theft Auto there were also many other also ran games aiming to bring around their own perspective to the open world driving walking crime games.

Phil: What are some of your favorites?

Phil: What variations on Grand Theft Auto or underappreciated games come to mind?

Phil: And I've written down a couple here if you don't have any, but in show notes, I've written down a few examples.

Tom: I don't think I've actually played many of the other ones, but one I've always wanted to play is Sleeping Dogs.

Phil: I've tried to play Sleeping Dogs four different times on PC, PlayStation and Xbox, and I just can't get past the first hour and a half.

Phil: It's a beautiful game, a really vivid game set in Hong Kong, I believe.

Phil: Yeah, you've never tried it?

Tom: No.

Phil: For me, well, we played the Mafia game series.

Tom: Can we call them GTA-like?

Tom: I mean, Mafia precedes Grand Theft Auto

Phil: It does, but certainly Mafia and took more from GTA than they did from the original Mafia.

Tom: Greatly to their detriment, at least in the case of

Phil: Yep.

Phil: You ever played Getaway, Sony's London-based?

Tom: Yes, I did.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: That's more so a driver game than a Grand Theft Auto game, though.

Phil: I'd agree.

Phil: I didn't much care for it.

Phil: Crackdown and yeah, kind of, sort of.

Phil: I love Crackdown, through

Phil: Saints Row, of course, I love those.

Phil: Simpsons Hit and Run was a great one, very limited.

Phil: Probably the best Simpsons game, I'd say.

Tom: There's one I actually did play a little bit of.

Phil: Yeah, and then, but my favorite of all time, it would be Scarface, which was the licensed game that was really much closer to Grand Theft Auto San Andreas in terms of its depth.

Phil: But I absolutely love that game and recommend it to anyone.

Phil: It was fantastic.

Phil: And then they trolled the universe by bringing out a Scarface game for the PlayStation Portable and made it a real-time strategy game.

Phil: And as a result, I think it was one of the worst reviewed games by consumers ever.

Phil: Because everyone just bought it thinking they're going to be playing Scarface, and then they get told that this is a real-time strategy game.

Tom: How was it reviewed by critics?

Phil: I don't remember.

Phil: I did also pick it up, and it was OK.

Phil: It was basically a winning territories, you know, on a top-down map.

Phil: But it really had nothing to do with Scarface, and was not a good use of the license.

Phil: Do you want another question?

Tom: Why not?

Phil: Ben from Boston writes, PlayStation has been victim to their own hubris in the past.

Phil: Since the PlayStation is enjoying so much success, despite its horrible industrial design, are they setting themselves up for another self-inflicted wound?

Tom: When has the PlayStation been a victim of hubris?

Phil: I'd say PlayStation to PlayStation most people would point to.

Phil: You'll get two jobs to buy one of these.

Phil: We're not going to follow PC architecture.

Phil: They, yeah, basically, after coming off of their biggest success, they stumbled around with PlayStation and opened the door for Microsoft to get in with for several years.

Tom: I don't think you can call the PlayStation in any way a victim of anything but success.

Phil: No, the PlayStation was tremendous success, but coming off of that, the writers suggesting that Sony had so much hubris that they destroyed a lot of consumer and developer goodwill with the PlayStation

Phil: Now, ultimately, the PlayStation went on globally to have huge success.

Tom: Which is why I think the questioner is wrong.

Phil: It's certainly a very North American centric perspective, because the did outsell the PlayStation in that market.

Phil: Yeah, so I guess...

Tom: The other thing I would take issue with is, I don't know how you can describe the PlayStation 's design as industrial.

Phil: No, it's sort of organic, isn't it?

Phil: It's got an organic industrial design.

Phil: It is an ugly thing.

Phil: Don't tell me you don't think it's ugly.

Tom: You could call it ugly, but it's in no way industrial.

Phil: Well, industrial design is the phrase given to anything, any consumer good design.

Phil: So, which I'm a big fan of, not the PlayStation, but just industrial design in general.

Tom: So by industrial design, they merely mean that it is designed to be manufactured in an industry, do they?

Phil: That is correct, yes.

Tom: So in that case, the question is even more bizarre in its premise, because they're suggesting that the next PlayStation should not be following a mass manufacture process.

Phil: No, I think it's just a throwaway comment.

Tom: That's the only way I can interpret it.

Phil: I think it's just a throwaway comment, saying it's had great success despite its design.

Tom: So it's had great success despite its mass production.

Phil: Its hideous appearance, how about that?

Tom: I think it could only have great success by being mass produced.

Phil: Very well.

Phil: Okay, last question, then we'll close out the show.

Phil: Join us next time, we'll be talking roadblocks.

Phil: Joe in Seattle writes, looking at the long history of the unending console wars, why do you think people align with brands so closely, almost as if the brand is tied to their personality?

Tom: I think instead of going down any psychological route here, just simply because it's fun.

Phil: Yeah, I think it has to do with money.

Phil: You know, you've made an investment in a product, Nike versus Adidas, Ford versus Chevrolet.

Phil: It's just going to be, people want to think that they made the right purchasing decision.

Phil: Now, I've up until the last generation bought every console in each generation.

Phil: And the pendulum tends to swing towards which console is technically superior.

Phil: And I don't think that that's as important anymore.

Phil: I think a lot of indie games have sort of negated the need to put an emphasis on that.

Phil: Clearly, the PC is the most technically capable gaming platform, and if that's what you want, that's where you can go.

Phil: So these days, my loyalties tend to be around things that are important to me, which is low download size and accessibility for me to play it.

Phil: So that generally means something that I can play portably, which is where I've been mostly a Switch proponent over the last generation.

Phil: Though now I have a Super Duper TV.

Phil: I really enjoy having a look at the PlayStation and hopefully soon a PlayStation on that.

Phil: Should my internet situation change?

Tom: Should or will?

Phil: Should it change?

Tom: Okay, so in other words, it's never going to happen?

Phil: Yeah, maybe.

Phil: Maybe I'll move.

Phil: Who knows?

Tom: You got to move for better internet.

Phil: So I can get a PlayStation

Phil: It's a totally logical plan.

Tom: And then we're just going to hear about why PlayStation is the best.

Phil: That's it.

Phil: And Switch is even better.

Phil: So no major games coming from Sony.

Phil: The rumor mill is saying that the Switch has now been pushed into where everyone was expecting it to come fourth quarter of

Phil: It's kind of a downer start to the year, man.

Tom: Certainly not.

Tom: Well, it depends on how you look at it, because I think we're now finally getting out of the Baldur's Gate hype.

Tom: So I think that's the vacuum that we're waiting to be filled, because until now, if you were depressed, you just look at the greatest RPG ever being released.

Tom: But following that, we haven't really had anything to be excited about other than Power World, have we?

Phil: No, and Roblox.

Phil: But have you played much more of Baldur's Gate ?

Tom: I can't remember where I was up to since we last spoke about it, but I'm still gradually progressing in it.

Phil: Excellent.

Phil: Excellent.

Phil: Okay, well, with that, I think we'll end episode unless you've got anything else you want to raise.

Tom: Not really.

Tom: That's pretty much it.

Phil: Excellent.

Phil: Well, thanks for joining us, everyone, and hope you enjoyed the show.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg.

Tom: I'm Tom Towers.

Phil: And this was The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Visit us at gameunder.net.

Game Under Podcast 147

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

0:00:18 Intro
0:01:56 News
0:21:26 What We’ve Been Playing (Resident Evil Remakes)
1:05:45 Phil’s Questions for Tom from Other People’s Podcasts
1:22:03 Outro

Transcript
WEBVTT

Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: I am one of two co-hosts, and the other co-host is the impossible-to-get rid of Phil Fogg.

Phil: And you are Tom Towers.

Tom: Yes, I am.

Phil: You should always open a podcast with big energy, big show energy.

Phil: I understand that you're bringing the energy today.

Phil: I drove over four hours to get to this recording today.

Phil: I was minutes early, and then stopped because a neighbour, a neighbouring farmer, had a errant cow that had escaped his property, and I couldn't help myself.

Phil: I said, I asked him, does he need help getting this cow back onto his property?

Phil: And of course, he graciously accepted.

Phil: So, if I don't have the big energy that I should have, that's why.

Tom: You were chasing after cows, apparently.

Phil: The chasing after the cow was actually more relaxing than the four hours of driving to get here on time.

Tom: You were coming in hot, apparently.

Phil: I was coming in hot.

Tom: Coming in hot the entire four hours?

Phil: Just coming in hot to the studio.

Phil: Yeah, so any...

Phil: But I do understand you've got the big energy today as well, so that's fantastic.

Tom: Yes, I do.

Tom: I've had, I believe, micro sleeps.

Tom: I'm not sure I've had any actual sleeps.

Phil: Yeah, I think for the first time while I was driving today is the first time where it's like, I might fall asleep while I'm driving.

Phil: Which would not be smart.

Tom: And all just so you could record a podcast.

Phil: Okay, so on with the news.

Phil: I've scoured all of the news that we aggregate at the VG Press, and I've just picked a few stories, most of the which I haven't heard people talking about elsewhere, because we may as well talk about something slightly interesting.

Phil: Now, this was a bit of a non-story, but Spec Ops The Line has been unexpectedly delisted from Steam.

Phil: It's still available in other places to play.

Phil: And you might recall that I think this was my game of the year when it was released.

Tom: I believe so.

Tom: Did it make it into our top games of the decade or generation as well?

Phil: I don't think so, sadly.

Phil: It was released in

Phil: So that's years ago now at this point.

Phil: And it was just really, I thought it was a weird news story because everyone just used it as an excuse to say, if you haven't played this game, play it.

Phil: And with one of the authors of the story, IGN calling it one of the most important games of the seventh console generation, which prompted me to reflect on my feelings about the game.

Tom: And before you continue, I'd just like to look up what score IGN gave one of the most important games of the generation.

Tom: And that was a classic IGN out of

Phil: And for those who haven't played it, I mean, it is an old game at this point, but it's based on the Heart of Darkness book.

Phil: And it was sort of a, I think it screwed around with story in a way that was novel.

Phil: I think that that was the thing that made it most novel to me beyond anything else.

Phil: I did enjoy the gameplay.

Phil: It is a shooter, a military shooter.

Phil: And there is a really good book that you can get.

Phil: It's a digital book that I'll link to in the show notes that talks about the guy who wrote the script for it and wrote the story in his time at Jäger Games.

Phil: It was the only other game that Jäger ever made other than the eponymous Jäger.

Phil: And his time at K.

Phil: And it is an interesting story behind the scenes as well.

Phil: What do you think?

Phil: Should I go back and play it again?

Phil: Do you think it will hold up over time?

Tom: I think it would hold up.

Tom: I don't think I was a big fan of the gameplay.

Tom: And for anyone out there listening who has not listened to our Spec Ops The Line big show that we did some number of years ago, I think that was some of our best work.

Tom: It might also have been one of our first big shows that we did.

Phil: I had forgotten that we had done a big show on Spec Ops.

Phil: I want to listen to that.

Tom: You know, that may actually be our first ever episode.

Phil: Okay, yeah, we have a spoiler class.

Phil: Episode is a spoiler cast for Spec Ops The Line.

Phil: Um, after years of podcasting...

Phil: Interesting.

Phil: I'm going to like that story.

Phil: And the name of the book was by Walt Williams.

Tom: I think I might actually remember the recording of that podcast more vividly than the game itself, because I recently discovered that automatically translated into Mandarin, Malgic encephalomyelitis is translated as brain fever.

Tom: And recording that episode, I remember, could best be described as the feeling of brain fever.

Tom: I don't know if that came across in the resultant show, but I do remember vividly what it was like to record that episode.

Phil: Okay, so the name of the book is Significant Zero by Walt Williams.

Phil: I had forgotten that the guy who wrote it was Walt Williams.

Phil: And I thoroughly recommend that book.

Phil: It's a trashy, easy to read book.

Phil: But yeah, go back and listen to episode one.

Phil: I would cringe to know what episode one sounds like now without our professionalism and years of experience behind the mic.

Tom: And if you want impressions of Significant Zero, you can listen to episode and

Phil: Oh my gosh.

Phil: So entertainment-wise, we've just carried everyone through to the Super Bowl.

Phil: I've got a week of Spec Ops The Line content from The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: And our podcast, what's our website?

Phil: gameunder.net.

Phil: So go over there.

Phil: Story number two.

Phil: Cliff Blazinski says Microsoft would be smart.

Tom: I've got to interrupt you there because it seems like we've made the same mistake that IGN and all other news outlets have made here.

Tom: Has anyone actually bothered to try and find out why it has suddenly been delisted?

Phil: No, it's just been mysteriously delisted and only from Steam.

Tom: Okay, because you think as games journalists that might be...

Phil: They might ask someone why.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah, I know.

Phil: That's what I said.

Phil: It was a non-story.

Phil: It was just basically an excuse to promote the game.

Phil: So for reasons I don't understand, but that's okay.

Phil: Do you think a game like that could come out today?

Phil: Do you think K would publish a game like that today?

Tom: Why not?

Tom: I don't see any reason it couldn't.

Phil: Yeah, the controversy.

Tom: I think controversial games still come out pretty regularly.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I mean, when it was released, it wasn't actually that controversial.

Tom: I think most of the press force pickups line came up a little bit after its release, as is demonstrated by the IGN out of

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, I don't know.

Phil: I think it was controversial at the time because basically it was a comment.

Phil: The game was in and of itself without spoiling anything, a comment on military shooters.

Phil: So I think it was good for its time.

Phil: It's made its comment.

Phil: I think we need something like that now as a comment on Battle Royale, maybe, or who knows?

Phil: Who knows?

Tom: Anyway, we're ready for shooters still.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You ready for story number two?

Tom: I'm ready for story number two.

Phil: Gears of War creator Cliff Placinski has said Microsoft would be smart to enlist him to consult on the Gears of War franchise.

Phil: He says, Look, we've been over this millions of times.

Phil: I'm down to consult.

Phil: Give my two cents.

Phil: Crickets from Microsoft.

Phil: I understand that Gears will always be an enormous part of my legacy.

Phil: I appreciate and respect that.

Tom: Were you quoting Cliff Placinski here?

Tom: Or just Club Delusions of Grandeur?

Phil: I was quoting Cliff.

Phil: I pulled this story out because I thought, you know what?

Phil: Okay, what happened with him?

Phil: They went and did...

Phil: well, Boss Key Studios.

Phil: They released something.

Phil: I think it was a Battle Royale that was cancelled.

Phil: And then they did that online BMX game.

Phil: They iterated really quickly under that.

Phil: And since then, he's been wildly successful.

Phil: He's been wildly successful with some other things, like Broadway plays and comic books and books, things like that.

Phil: So I think he's fine.

Phil: But if you were Microsoft, wouldn't you have him come in and consult just so you can promote that Cliff Blazinski, the original guy, is back and helping us make the pinnacle third-person shooter?

Tom: Outside of marketing, I don't really see any point to it, but maybe as a marketing exercise, yes.

Tom: But by the same token, do you think that many people really care who Cliff Blazinski is these days?

Phil: Or what Gears of War is, for that matter.

Tom: That too.

Phil: Yeah, it could just be all irrelevant.

Phil: I would make peace with him and bring him on.

Phil: At least, you just don't know if someone like that, someone who could be a prima donna, could come on and then say, I've seen their development, they don't know what they're talking about, it's horrible.

Phil: And then just move on to the next thing he's doing.

Phil: So maybe the risk reward there isn't there for Microsoft.

Tom: Well, he has had success on Broadway.

Tom: So you may well be a prima donna.

Phil: And while he says that he is now, I understand that gears will always be an enormous part of my legacy.

Phil: I appreciate and respect that.

Phil: He certainly didn't when I tweeted him about that Broadway play.

Phil: The Broadway play was a courtroom drama or something.

Phil: And I went back on Twitter and said, oh, you should call it gears of law, right?

Phil: L-A-W.

Phil: And then he came back to me.

Phil: He's like, why?

Phil: Why?

Phil: Like, hey, the only thing I've known for is gears of war.

Phil: You know, give me a break.

Phil: So he put me in my place.

Phil: But I guess since then, you know, he's water under the bridge.

Phil: I read his book.

Phil: I would encourage people to read his book.

Tom: I think you should have come up with a jazz jackrabbit pun instead.

Phil: I believe I did at the time.

Phil: I believe I did at the time.

Phil: So, but anyway, Cliff Blazinski has released an autobiography, which I'd encourage everyone to read.

Phil: I thought it was definitely worth reading.

Phil: It was very candid in some sections of it.

Phil: Like his first sexual encounter was not perhaps voluntary.

Phil: Some old creep was involved there.

Phil: Yeah, and it's kind of like, wow, okay, that's a lot of information.

Phil: And I don't know what to do with, but everyone's got their story.

Tom: So it's more of a memoir, a serious memoir, than a games book.

Phil: Yeah, it's actually got a lot of games book stuff in there, behind the scenes stuff with his career.

Phil: And the thing that comes back to me about it was I was so amazed at how young and clueless he was at various stages of his career, where from the outside, you're like, oh, that's Cliffy B.

Phil: He's on top of it.

Phil: He's completely in control of his life.

Phil: But he's telling it from his perspective, and he's like, he didn't have it all together a lot of the time.

Phil: It was a very raw book.

Phil: But again, I'd recommend it.

Tom: I think it's to its credit that it has that sort of content in it.

Phil: Yeah, it was certainly much more raw than...

Phil: What's the fellow that does Civilization?

Phil: Sid Meier.

Tom: Sid Meier.

Phil: Kind of hard to forget his name when his name is in front of everything he's ever done.

Phil: Anyway, on to story number three.

Phil: Naughty Dog has concept for one more chapter of The Last of Us.

Phil: They say they don't have the story down yet.

Phil: He's just got a concept.

Phil: This is Neil Druckmann.

Phil: This to me was bad news, because I thought The Last of Us was sort of...

Phil: I liked Last of Us

Phil: I enjoyed Last of Us not fully, but it sort of dragged on a fair bit.

Phil: I had some difficulty with some of the story.

Phil: But I was kind of happy for them just to leave it at that and move on.

Phil: But apparently, they're going to do it again.

Phil: I would prefer to see something new from them.

Tom: I think they easily could have ended it with the first game, let alone the second.

Phil: Oh, absolutely.

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

Phil: Now, it is interesting though, because he says, we haven't really got the story, I've just got a concept.

Phil: Well, does that tell you that maybe they're working on something else, and then they'll go back to Last of Us?

Phil: Otherwise, you wouldn't have a studio of, you know, people just sitting around while Neil Druckmann's kicking back in his office with post-it notes up on the wall going, now, if only I could get something together here.

Phil: But, you know, so perhaps it does mean that they are working on something else.

Tom: Do they need to have the story written before they start working on the game, though?

Phil: I imagine you could be having environment engineers and environment artists working on those kinds of things without having the actual story nailed down.

Phil: Character animation, you could be working on all of that sort of thing.

Phil: The gameplay, yeah, definitely, you could be working on all that sort of thing.

Phil: I mean, but you'd have to give some broad direction as to, okay, these are the kinds of biomes, my least favorite word.

Phil: These are the kinds of environments that we're going to be in so that you guys can design it.

Tom: I think you could do that with a concept, though.

Phil: Yeah, you probably could.

Phil: I mean, if you look at The Last of Us and Last of Us there were some different settings in there, for sure.

Phil: Mostly stuck to the Pacific Coast other than the parts where they didn't.

Phil: Yeah, maybe you don't need the story, but if, in fact...

Tom: Concept is a pretty broad term.

Tom: You could include settings and a whole lot of stuff in a concept.

Phil: Hmm.

Phil: Yeah, I just thought it was a bit more nebulous than that based on what he said, so...

Phil: Let me just pull that up here.

Phil: I don't have a story, but I do have that concept.

Phil: To me, this is as exciting as one or as exciting as two.

Phil: It's its own thing, yet this...

Phil: yet has this through line for all three.

Phil: So it does feel like there's probably one more chapter to the story.

Phil: So that, to me, sounds a lot more nebulous.

Phil: I mean, there's probably one more chapter to the story.

Tom: That does sound more like they're not necessarily working on it.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But the next...

Tom: The only thing I would add to that is do Naughty Dog need to be working on something at the moment?

Phil: Well, you've got to...

Phil: You know, like I said, you've got a thousand people sitting there, getting paid.

Phil: They've got to be doing something.

Tom: I could just be sitting there.

Phil: You're a good boss.

Phil: You're a very generous boss.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: On to story number four.

Phil: Ken Levine says, What separates Judas is player choice.

Phil: So out of the Sony showcase, I'd say this was the most interesting game to me.

Phil: Have you watched the trailer for this?

Tom: I have, indeed.

Phil: And what are your impressions?

Tom: I was...

Tom: I can't say I was disappointed because I was expecting it to be just another Bioshock.

Tom: But I'm certainly in no way excited or anticipating it because it is another Bioshock.

Phil: It certainly looks a lot like Bioshock.

Phil: And what's wrong with it?

Tom: And the tagline is player choice.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Do you know anything else about this game?

Phil: Other than that it's what Ken Levine is working on?

Phil: And how far it is?

Phil: I mean, they've got a trailer.

Phil: That doesn't really mean anything, I guess.

Tom: All I know about it is the name that Ken Levine is working on it and that it has a trailer.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And the original Bioshock came out in

Phil: Incredibly.

Tom: How many years ago is that now?

Phil: More than

Phil: But less than

Phil: Hey, well, look, it says Judas is coming to PlayStation

Phil: So at least we know it's going to get released sometime in the next three years, I'd say.

Tom: I think the most interesting thing about this, to me, is something we touched on in the previous episode, which was about every game these days seeming to be very much putting itself forward as a nostalgia project in some way or other.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a lot.

Phil: It's a lot.

Phil: It's a lot of retreads.

Phil: I'm trying to think like it, but you know, at least we have the Indies still out there, bringing some creativity.

Phil: Yeah, it is funny when I look at what I'm playing, and it's like, other than the Indies stuff, it's like, okay, here we are, we're up to Yakuza

Phil: I'm going back and playing games because they've been re-released, you know, games that are years old, this sort of thing.

Phil: Maybe it's just my fault.

Phil: Maybe I should be playing Roblox, and that's where it's at, you know.

Tom: Maybe we should play Roblox.

Phil: Yeah, maybe we should.

Phil: You want to do that this week, and we'll talk about it next show?

Tom: I think we should aim to do that, definitely.

Phil: It is The Game Under Challenge, we will play Roblox.

Phil: Finally, the last news story is from Eurogamer today, where a leaker, so this is not known for fact, but there is a leaker that said that there are five Resident Evil games in development right now, including one of them being Resident Evil

Tom: That wouldn't surprise me.

Phil: Yeah, I find it hard to believe that Capcom has five full Resident Evil games in development, though.

Tom: I can believe it.

Tom: You've got a main game series.

Phil: All right, nine, so that's one.

Tom: You've got the remake series.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And then you've got a bunch of nebulous concepts that may never see the light of day.

Tom: Because you don't need to assume that any of these are necessarily going to go anywhere.

Phil: Or full games.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: So I think I'm just looking through the VG press.

Phil: There was someone who said, OK, RECode Veronica remake, Resident Evil remake remake.

Phil: I'm not sure that Resident Evil needs another remake, but it just got remade like what, four years ago, five years ago.

Phil: Oh, REremake, REremake.

Phil: So that could work.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: It's not much of a stretch.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: If you're just talking about remakes.

Phil: Well, with that, let's get on to what we've been playing.

Phil: And we are now joined by a special guest, a fellow that ran a Resident Evil fan site for several years.

Phil: Someone who is probably more passionate than a Resident Evil franchise than I know.

Phil: Anyone else I know, rather.

Phil: Now, his audio is a little bit strange.

Phil: It does sound like he's calling all the way from the US, which he is.

Tom: From Raccoon City, even.

Phil: Raccoon City, yeah.

Phil: So, Dee Vado, welcome to the show.

Dave: It's been a long time.

Phil: What was the name of the fan site that you ran?

Dave: I won't say I ran it.

Dave: I was an administrator of it for a little while.

Dave: I helped with the forums and all that.

Dave: But yeah, that was Biohaze.

Phil: And is it still up and running?

Dave: Yeah.

Phil: Excellent.

Dave: I'm not involved with it as much, but it's still there.

Phil: biohaze.com, excellent.

Phil: And the reason why we brought you on here is because, Tom, you've been playing quite a lot of Resident Evil.

Tom: I have.

Tom: Last year, I played the Resident Evil remake, the Resident Evil remake, the Resident Evil remake, and Resident Evil and Resident Evil all back to back.

Dave: So the new generation of Resident Evil, basically.

Tom: Exactly.

Dave: What did you think?

Tom: Well, it's an interesting experience.

Tom: I think I played...

Tom: I don't think I've ever played that many games in a franchise back to back like that before.

Tom: And it was...

Tom: I played Resident Evil and Resident Evil and obviously Resident Evil but the Resident Evil and Resident Evil remakes were particularly interesting because I never finished either of those on the PlayStation, but I...

Tom: Even though I haven't finished them, some of my favorite games of all time, just due to the richness of the atmosphere, and with that being updated to modern graphics and all that sort of thing, I was worried that it would lose a little of that because a lot of the...

Tom: I mean, anyway, a lot of the, I think, atmosphere of the original Resident Evils and Silent Hill, for that matter, is actually in the lo-fi nature of the games because it just allows you to basically read in so much more into the atmosphere, which creates a much richer experience.

Tom: Resident Evil compared to the original Resident Evil games and Resident Evil remake of the original Resident Evil, all of them, obviously, in terms of gameplay, are amazing, but for me, I don't think any Resident Evil post-PlayStation comes close to that richness and atmosphere of the PlayStation games.

Tom: So I was a little bit disappointed in that regard, but they really captured the spirit of both of those games, even so, I thought.

Tom: They managed to have this wonderful mix of the both intentional and unintentional, ridiculous humor, as well as at times, I think, the slightly darker tone compared to Resident Evil onwards.

Tom: And the gameplay, it took me a little bit of time to calibrate the controls to something that I was comfortable with.

Tom: But once I did, it was a great mixture of very limited environments slightly limited controls, but a nice sort of dynamic movement to it.

Tom: The Malay stuff was very overpowered in Resident Evil but it also gave the combat a nice sort of punchy feel to it.

Tom: And where those two remakes fall down, though, I thought was in Resident Evil

Tom: The great thing about the Resident Evil remake was it wasn't just an action game.

Tom: It was a mixture of killing zombies, conserving ammo, solving puzzles, and exploration.

Tom: And none of those elements were kind of more important than any of the others, whereas in Resident Evil it became much more of an action game, and that was, to me, much less enjoyable.

Tom: It made the experience in general a lot more shallow and much more one-note.

Tom: The second game, you went through these great ups and downs from the beginning to the end.

Tom: The third is just basically action from the beginning to end, and the environments change, but what's happening in the environments don't really change that much.

Dave: Yeah, I totally agree.

Dave: Yeah, Resident Evil remake was handled by a different team.

Dave: Mwas kind of like their side team, and it shows something happened in the development of that game where clearly something would cut.

Dave: Because if you read a lot of the previews of Resident Evil before the main came out, they were talking about subway systems where you could travel across the city to different parts of the city, and it sounded like this big open game, and what we got was nothing like that.

Dave: We got a game that is pretty much a roller coaster.

Dave: You are on a track, you kind of just go forward, and it's just action scene after action scene after action scene, and it's fun, but it's very basic compared to Resident Evil or even the original Resident Evil

Dave: And the worst part of the Resident Evil remake is that the Nemesis aspect, which was a really interesting new style of a thing back in the PlayStation days where they randomly had this creature chase you, and it was randomly generated to always feel like you're being hunted, that was cut out entirely.

Dave: And it's just very scripted in the remake.

Dave: So in that regard, Resident Evil failed as a remake of the original Resident Evil in my eyes.

Dave: It's still a good game because it's just a fun action game, but it's the worst of these new Resident Evil games, I would say.

Phil: So with Resident Evil wasn't there something recently that came up where they basically talked about what had...

Phil: or they admitted that they had cut a fair amount from the game?

Dave: Yes.

Dave: I mean, also, if you just go by location, location, just how the story goes, they cut out the clock tower, which was a great old-schoolish Resident Evil location.

Dave: It felt kind of like the mansion a little bit, where you're in this old, dilapidated clock tower.

Dave: You got some zombies, and it's just a good location, very scary, and the Nemesis chase you through it.

Dave: They cut that out entirely in the game.

Dave: They cut out the entire final section.

Dave: They changed it from this place called the Dead Lab into something that looks like a Resident Evil lab.

Dave: And it felt to me like they just wanted to kind of use assets from Resident Evil

Dave: They kind of copied that.

Dave: But yeah, so you could see those shortcuts taken.

Dave: And the beginning of the game is a little bit more detailed than the final half.

Dave: It felt like they rushed.

Dave: So I felt somewhere along the line, they just ran out of time and money, and they're just like, let's pump this thing out.

Dave: And it shows that they cut corners, because that one got a hit.

Dave: Resident Evil was amazing.

Dave: Everybody loved it.

Dave: Resident Evil came out, and the reaction was, it was okay.

Dave: It's a fun game, but lukewarm, and we're wondering if the remakes are going to match, you know, what Resident Evil did, or is it going to be more just Capcom cashing in?

Dave: Luckily, Resident Evil learned from Resident Evil 's mistake, because the original Resident Evil was actually going to cut out the island entirely.

Dave: It was going to be a much shorter game.

Dave: And then once they saw the reaction to Resident Evil it kind of extended the development time for like an extra year, and they made sure that every single moment of Resident Evil was recreated.

Dave: And so the version we got, which I feel is fantastic, is part of those lessons learned from Resident Evil Remake.

Phil: Now, Resident Evil that was a PlayStation game, right?

Dave: Yes, yes.

Phil: And just thinking about where it fell in terms of the console launches, I'm just thinking that maybe Resident Evil came towards the end of the PlayStation cycle, and that's maybe why the resources got shifted onto something else, because it was kind of like, well, this console is wrapping up.

Dave: Well, yeah, the original Resident Evil that was the split between Resident Evil and Code Veronica.

Dave: So Resident Evil was a side game.

Dave: Resident Evil Nemesis was not supposed to be

Dave: That was supposed to be just Resident Evil Nemesis, a side project worked on by Capcom, while their main team is doing Code Veronica on the Dreamcast.

Dave: And Code Veronica was supposed to be Resident Evil

Dave: And then somewhere along the line, Capcom decided to keep all the numbered titles on PlayStation, and then we're going to name, you know, Resident Evil games on different platforms, a different code name or whatever.

Dave: So that's why Code Veronica got named Code Veronica, when in reality, Code Veronica is Resident Evil

Dave: And they got developed at the same time.

Dave: But most of the development money went to Code Veronica.

Dave: That was the next-gen game that had Wesker, Chris, Claire.

Dave: It was the next big part of the story.

Dave: And Resident Evil was more like a weird little side project.

Phil: That's fascinating.

Phil: Now, I remember when Resident Evil...

Phil: Tell me if I'm wrong, and then I'll shut up for a while.

Phil: But when Resident Evil came out, I seem to remember in the broader gaming community, that was kind of like, well, Capcom, you got to kind of prove yourself here because you're on thin ice.

Phil: Code Veronica was well liked and loved.

Phil: But it was a Dreamcast first game, and it had stayed that way for a very long time.

Phil: So I think a lot of the general community, the last experience they had with it was Resident Evil

Phil: Am I remembering things correctly?

Dave: Code Veronica X came out on the PlayStation about a year after Code Veronica.

Dave: So they did release it on PSas a newer version.

Dave: They added new cutscenes with Wesker in it.

Dave: And that was about the only Resident Evil game, PlayStation like original style Resident Evil game, because they all moved to the Nintendo, which was a big deal that happened where Mikami, the creator of Resident Evil, made a deal with Nintendo just to make Resident Evil games exclusive on the GameCube.

Dave: And that was a huge shift.

Dave: And eventually, it didn't work out, and Mikami left.

Dave: Part of the reason why Shinji Mikami, the creator, left Capcom was that deal falling through, because the GameCube sales weren't as good.

Dave: And Capcom pretty much saying, we need to put Resident Evil on PlayStation no matter what.

Dave: And they did eventually.

Dave: But yeah, Code Veronica did come out on PlayStation and that was about the only main Resident Evil game, a Resident Evil game on PlayStation till Resident Evil came out many years later.

Phil: That's fascinating.

Phil: Did you know that, Tom, about Mikami?

Tom: I think so, but not in that great detail.

Dave: Legend has it that in an interview, he said, I would cut off my own head before I allow Resident Evil to come on PlayStation

Dave: And well, it did come out.

Dave: And I don't know if that quote is for real.

Dave: It could be a translation thing or whatever.

Dave: There's a legend out there that he said that.

Dave: And once that deal fell through and Capcom said, we're just going to port Resident Evil everywhere, basically.

Dave: Yeah, he kind of left and made a move.

Tom: And they're still porting it everywhere today.

Dave: Oh, yeah, on everything imaginable.

Tom: So speaking of Code Veronica, that was actually I tried to play Code Veronica.

Tom: And Code Veronica, I've never got very far in it, but it's always been one of my favorite Resident Evil games because it's just got such a weird and different opening, setting, and start compared to any of the other Resident Evils in this foggy, dirty.

Tom: But I played, remember if it's on the PSor PSI think PSsorry, PSbut I could be wrong.

Tom: I tried to play the version on the PSthe official version, instead of emulating it.

Tom: And for some unknown reason, the PSversion does not have the correct aspect ratio of the game.

Tom: So it's got black borders on the screen, but they do not force it in to the right aspect ratio.

Tom: So you can try stretching it out to to and you'll have the screen stretched.

Tom: You can try moving it to and you'll have the screen stretched.

Tom: So in this version of Resident Evil Code Veronica, for some reason, Capcom decided it would be a good idea to make it so the game literally cannot be played without the image being distorted.

Tom: And I was just absolutely flabbergasted by this decision.

Dave: I don't recall that at least.

Dave: That's French.

Tom: It's not as bad as if you're stretching a to image to to or vice versa.

Tom: So I think a lot of people do play it nonetheless, but any sort of distortion of that type, to me, really annoys me.

Tom: So it's not as bad as it could be, but it is noticeable if that's something that bothers you.

Dave: So did you say you never finished Over on a Goat?

Tom: That's right.

Tom: I never got very far because I mainly played it at a friend's house because they had a dream cast and I didn't.

Phil: This is the section of the show where we talk about where Tom plays on other people's games at other people's places.

Tom: Well, Resident Evil Remake or Resident Evil Remake was played on Arnie or...

Tom: What's the other guy's name on the VJ Press?

Tom: Let me find it.

Phil: Yes, you go ahead and do that.

Phil: So in the news today, VEDA, we talked about how Capcom...

Tom: Terojo.

Tom: So all...

Tom: All of these games, all of these Resident Evil games, are played on Terojo or Arnie's Steam account.

Tom: Except for...

Tom: Let me just check which one.

Phil: This is fascinating.

Tom: It is.

Tom: This is the real impressions that people have come here for, is to find out whose account I was playing what on.

Phil: While you're doing that, the news story broke out today, a bit of a rumor that Capcom is working on five Resident Evil properties right now, one of them being Resident Evil

Phil: Resident Evil has to be a remake, in remake, right?

Dave: I mean, I'm going to assume it will.

Dave: Okay, I need to abstain from this question because I kind of know.

Dave: I have little birdies that tell me things.

Dave: I kind of know what's happening.

Dave: I can't really share it.

Tom: You can't give us an exclusive?

Dave: No, I can't do it.

Dave: I'm sorry.

Dave: The same people who are sharing that rumor I'm in chats with, and I kind of know what's going on.

Phil: Let me just say this, and you don't have to answer it, but are they really going to remake RE?

Dave: I do not know, and I don't think anybody at this point knows.

Dave: And if they do, that is definitely the end of the remakes, I would have to think, right?

Dave: You're not going to remake RE

Dave: Like REI get it.

Dave: REcould use a remake, because that game's a mess.

Dave: It's a fun mess.

Dave: I enjoy it, but that thing is an overblown mess of a game.

Dave: And maybe that game could use a big hacksaw to piece it together and make a more coherent action game out of it.

Phil: I've got to play it again.

Phil: I've got to play it again.

Dave: It has good action.

Dave: Actually, in terms of the combat system, it was pretty unique and fun to play.

Dave: But it is kind of all over the place.

Phil: So for me, like in my Resident Evil life, I started out with Resident Evil on the Saturn.

Phil: And then Resident Evil

Phil: And then I didn't play Nemesis.

Phil: I played all of Code Veronica.

Phil: But then where it hit its stride for me was and

Phil: I guess because that's more of the action type games.

Phil: But then I bought and it was so creepy I couldn't play it.

Phil: I still have it over there in the library, but I've just never been able to actually play it.

Phil: And it could just be because now I've got a kid around, and it's a bit more difficult.

Phil: Do you see, I mean, like, you'd probably look at, what sort of an RE gamer would you call me?

Phil: I'm kind of all over the place, but I'd be casual, right?

Dave: Well, I mean, no, I think you've gone through all the eras.

Dave: I see Resident Evil is split in three eras, basically.

Dave: There's the original PSkind of era, or the old school Resident Evil.

Dave: It kind of went into the GameCube, which was your fixed camera angle, classic, you know, run around, grab items.

Dave: Then it went into the action era, which is your

Dave: And then Resident Evil kind of made this new-ish era that's a mix of everything, and I think the best of everything.

Dave: We're right now in this really great era where every fan of Resident Evil is getting something good.

Dave: But since you've kind of dabbled in all those, and you did mention your action, you think action was your favorite part?

Dave: ?

Phil: Definitely, yeah.

Dave: Yeah, so you're probably, like most, I would say, is probably the height.

Dave: Right now, I think we're the best part of Resident Evil.

Dave: I think right now, you're in a really good spot.

Dave: But back then, was like the max point of the series before.

Dave: Like that was when it hit its height.

Dave: Resident Evil was a masterpiece.

Dave: It kind of fell into and was like the big blockbuster game.

Dave: And it was still the best selling game.

Tom: I said, is the one that had actually sold by far the most, isn't it?

Dave: Yes, yeah.

Dave: Well, it was going to be caught up by Resident Evil I think, just passed.

Dave: The remake just passed it, or going to pass it in a few months.

Dave: So Resident Evil remakes didn't pass it.

Dave: And the Resident Evil remake is going to pass all of them.

Dave: It's already breaking all the sales records in terms of how much it sold up to now.

Dave: So Resident Evil is the fastest selling Resident Evil game.

Dave: But Resident Evil was by far the top for a long time.

Dave: Resident Evil with like versions of it was kind of right there, but Resident Evil was the top for the longest time.

Dave: But I think a lot of fans are that action era.

Dave: And that's okay.

Dave: But I think if you dabbled in the old, played the action, and you're good.

Dave: You got it all.

Dave: You're an all around Resident Evil fan.

Dave: You might not be a diehard, but you're a fan.

Phil: Yeah, I haven't gone back to the remakes.

Phil: I bought them, but I haven't gone back to them yet.

Phil: And again, that's more to do with having a little kid around, you know.

Tom: I just got to interject here, something on sales I've been pondering is, we really need some way of quantifying sales in a better way, because given the ever upward rise of the popularity of gaming, it seems sometimes a little misleading comparing sales of new games or new versions of new games to old ones, just given that there were far fewer people in terms of gamers to purchase them in the past.

Tom: So if RERemake is outselling the original Resident Evil, for example, does that mean it's more popular today, or does it not, considering there are simply far more people to buy?

Phil: Well, I think, Tom, what you're looking at, though, is the kind of thing that happens with sports statistics as well, right?

Phil: So rules have changed, people are bigger, they're more athletic.

Phil: I don't know that you can balance out, this guy got so many steals in baseball, and then these days the kids are not getting as many steals, but then they change the rules that make the bases bigger and all the rest of it.

Phil: So I just don't know that you can compare overall sales to that extent.

Tom: It should be simpler.

Tom: You just need to do it in a per capita calculation based on the number of consoles or something to that effect.

Phil: Yeah, the number of available gamers, I guess.

Dave: There's also the pricing, because now games are and back then they were and so you're paying a little bit more per copy, but then they drop in price too, and then they sell for many, many years at a discounted price.

Dave: You never know where most of the sales are coming from.

Dave: You know, is it mostly your release?

Dave: You know, you get a good three, four million right at release, but then the next six million are like at bucks.

Dave: It's...

Dave: So it's...

Dave: The way I would say it is, look at the company.

Dave: You know, they have an expectation for how much it's supposed to sell to meet their goals, and if it exceeds that, then that's a success for them.

Dave: And right now, Resident Evil seems to be doing very well for Capcom.

Phil: Isn't it great that Capcom's just stuck in there for year after year, not just with Resident Evil, but, you know, there was an era during the Dreamcast era and Nera where Capcom was my favorite developer and publisher, and they're still going at it.

Phil: You know, they're still going at it strong.

Phil: It's just fantastic to see that sort of legacy and still being alive and relevant.

Phil: So Tom, what was the overall impact on you, like playing all these Resident Evil back to back to back?

Phil: I mean, did it jade you to Resident Evil?

Phil: Did it make you more interested?

Phil: Obviously, if you were sick of it, you would have stopped at some point along the way.

Tom: Well, I got...

Tom: I almost got sick of it and wanted to stop when I played the Resident Evil Zero, the PC version.

Tom: But by the end of Resident Evil Zero, that ended up becoming one of my favorites in the series.

Tom: So the reason that was inspired me to continue on with this whole experience.

Tom: So the reason that was such a roller coaster ride was a few things.

Tom: The first is it's got one of the absolute stupidest design decisions in any game I've ever played, and that is there is no magical story box, storage box in it, unlike basically every other Resident Evil.

Tom: So what you need to do to manage your inventory is basically select a part of the map where you're going to be dumping all your fucking shit, and you'll be going back and forth between this spot as you're exploring when you need to top up your ammo or get some healing items you suddenly need.

Tom: I just do not know how anyone thought this was a good idea, yet at the same time, as much as it annoyed me throughout the entire game, something about it was charming just by the very fact that it was so monumentally stupid and bizarre.

Tom: And there are a few other things like this too, like there were these leech enemies in it which appeared, and you could technically kill them, but they required you to use up so much ammo unless you had fire weapons like Molotov cocktails or fire grenades that the majority of the time, you'd just be sprinting past them.

Tom: So that was an interesting experience.

Phil: Which game was this?

Tom: This is Resident Evil Zero.

Phil: They didn't give you the storage locker?

Tom: That's right.

Phil: That's funny because that reminds me of playing Morrowind in the old days.

Phil: They had the same sort of thing, so you just go find a place that you think is sort of hidden and then just dump all your gear there on the map.

Tom: Someone's house.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: So you were doing that in Resident Evil Zero?

Tom: Basically, yes.

Tom: And then the funniest thing is, so they don't have the magical story boxes, but when you move from one area to the next, all your shit gets magically transferred to the next area and dumped on the floor there.

Phil: Are you kidding?

Phil: That's funny.

Phil: That is funny.

Tom: That's why I ended up enjoying that aspect of the game as incredibly annoying as it was to actually deal with.

Tom: You don't come across just weird shit like that in games very often.

Tom: And there might be a good reason for that, but it's still, once you get used to the suffering, makes it an interesting experience.

Tom: But the other reason, or the other really disappointing thing about it as well, was it has some of the worst bosses in Resident Evil history.

Tom: Most of them are just, here's a giant version of something, and the gameplay basically just consists of, you've got to pretty much know where to stand so that you're not going to get hit and shoot at the right time.

Tom: And that's pretty much it for the majority of the bosses.

Tom: So it's some of their least creative bosses, both in terms of gameplay and character design.

Tom: But the thing that makes it interesting, other than the totally bizarre item box bullshit, is it's almost as much fantasy as it is science fiction.

Tom: It's got an operatic cutscene in it.

Tom: The main enemy is this leech shape-shifting dude.

Tom: And the settings are also some of the most interesting, although they're not really fleshed out compared to other Resident Evils.

Tom: But the train is a real highlight of any Resident Evil.

Tom: So it just ends up being, I think, one of the most unique Resident Evil experiences.

Tom: And as painful as it was to play at times, it's definitely become one of the most memorable Resident Evil experiences I've had.

Dave: Yeah, that's my least favorite, I would say, easily.

Dave: Zero marked the moment where I realized this series needs to change or it's done.

Dave: And thankfully, Resident Evil came next, and they knew it.

Dave: They knew, like, they ran.

Dave: That was it.

Dave: That was the end of the old formula.

Dave: Resident Evil was, we're out of ideas.

Dave: This is it.

Dave: You know, we're going to take away an item box, and that was a horrible idea.

Dave: It didn't really work.

Dave: We're going to put two people that you control at the same time.

Dave: That's interesting.

Dave: They had a few puzzles where you have to control both, but it was an annoying game.

Tom: Absolutely.

Tom: If anyone says it's terrible, I'll accept that.

Dave: I don't think any Resident Evil game is terrible.

Dave: It was easily the worst of those, you know, one through zero from the original grouping.

Dave: I thought that was easily the worst of those.

Tom: I think that's fair assessment.

Phil: Yeah, Vader, how long have you known Dusk Golem?

Dave: Dusk Golem, just from the forums and stuff like that.

Dave: I've never met him or anything, but we chat in like a little Resident Evil chat room and stuff.

Dave: But yeah, I've known him.

Dave: It's been, what, six years or so?

Phil: I was just trying to trick him into saying something he shouldn't, Tom.

Phil: That's the name.

Phil: That's the fellow that released this information.

Dave: Yeah, he loves just sharing stuff.

Dave: He probably shouldn't at times, but he does.

Phil: He likes doing that.

Phil: All right, Tom, anything else you want to say about your Resident Evil experience?

Tom: Well, there's still the REremake and REand RE

Phil: Oh, well, okay.

Phil: Well, this is the best part, I guess.

Phil: This is the part we should charge people for, but go ahead.

Tom: Do we want to start with REor RE-?

Phil: I'm happy to talk about RE

Tom: We may as well, given we've all been covering what are technically remakes or re-releases so far.

Tom: So this is one game where I really wish I had notes for it.

Tom: But I'll do my best without notes.

Tom: So I think the first thing you have to say is they were given a very difficult, if not impossible task.

Tom: Many people say Resident Evil is the greatest game of all time.

Tom: I would certainly not say that.

Tom: I think where I hold Resident Evil is very different to a lot of people.

Tom: It's a game I love.

Tom: Is it a game that I think you can say is one of the best, sorry, the best contender for the best of all time?

Tom: I don't think so.

Tom: I think it does some things better than any other game or as well as any other game.

Tom: The pacing in it and the way the pacing works is, I think, totally unique.

Tom: I can't think of any other game that has a similar sort of pacing because the fascinating thing about Resident Evil 's pacing is it ends up having this perfectly streamlined feeling to it.

Tom: Yet, if you look at what's actually happening moment to moment, it's all over the place.

Tom: You'll be literally having this completely quiet downtime walking along with no build up, and the next section, next second, you'll be beset by enemies in this massive action set piece, which will be followed immediately by a puzzle or some random shit like that.

Tom: It doesn't have like normal crescendos and doesn't normally build up to things, and doesn't give you expected moments of downtime.

Tom: It's all over the place, all the time.

Phil: I think that's what makes it good, because you just don't know, yeah, it puts you off center, yeah.

Tom: Exactly, I can't think of another game that does this.

Dave: I agree.

Dave: Well, I'm one of those that think it's one of the greatest top three games ever made.

Dave: But yeah, and I do agree that's part of why.

Dave: It is the pacing.

Dave: To me, well, to this day, I have never found a game that for as long as that is, because it is a long game for an action game, hours.

Dave: To have that level of just every moment is something different and new, and you have no idea what's going to come up.

Dave: And it's always a unique twist.

Dave: Like, no room is the same.

Dave: It's just they keep the encounters unique every single time for that long and that intense.

Dave: It's amazing.

Dave: And every game is spoiled, because every game I kind of compare, all these action games, I'm trying to compare it to it.

Dave: And to me, nothing matches, because most games do have a flow that is kind of predictable and does have highs and lows.

Dave: Whereas before, to me, it was just constantly one-upping itself over and over and over and over again.

Phil: It was my number one for a long time.

Phil: It's probably in my top five right now.

Phil: And I think it is exactly that, because it's something new, like constantly.

Phil: And it didn't feel like a long game at all for an action game when I was playing it.

Tom: The only thing I can compare it to in terms of pacing is an action Bollywood blockbuster.

Phil: But does the remake change any of that?

Tom: That's the original that we're talking about.

Tom: And I think the other important thing about the original as well is of course the mechanics.

Tom: Some of the most satisfying third-person shooting mechanics in any game.

Tom: I think that's another area where you can say it is up there with the best of anything.

Tom: For me, the areas where maybe it falls down a little bit, and the areas that don't live up to those two main...

Tom: They are of course...

Tom: Those two things are the core of the game.

Tom: They're the most important thing.

Tom: But the areas that perhaps don't live up to it as much for me is I think some of the encounter design and some of the environmental design I think doesn't have the same level of interest and unpredictability and chaos as the pacing or detail and depth as the mechanics.

Tom: So those were the sorts of areas that I thought would be interesting to see if they were able to improve on at all in the remake.

Tom: But really, the main area that I was worried about the remake was in terms of the feeling of the pacing.

Tom: And it's not just that it's all chaos and random, it's that throughout Resident Evil one of the things that makes it enjoyable to me anyway is there's always a sense of friction, even if that's just due to what's happening in the narrative or if it is just due to these really neck-breaking changes in pace, there's always this sense of friction to whatever you're doing.

Tom: Even if you're in a fight and you've got shotgun shells and you know it's going to be nothing, there's still this sense that it's this life or death situation where you could die at any moment, even if that isn't the case.

Tom: And modern games are very much the opposite to that.

Tom: They're all about removing as much friction as possible, making everything feel not necessarily like it's not a life and death situation, but always like there's a way you can figure things out and fight your way out of something if you have enough grit.

Tom: And that was what I was worried might occur, because Resident Evil remake, Resident Evil remake, they still have friction in them, but compared to the original games, they're obviously a completely streamlined and fictionless experience in a good way.

Tom: But if they were going to remove that from Resident Evil you're removing the soul of the game to me.

Tom: And I was shocked and very pleasantly surprised.

Tom: They absolutely did not do that.

Tom: I feel like the shooting mechanics in it, they don't feel as heavy as in the original Resident Evil

Tom: They don't feel as unique as in the Resident Evil

Tom: It's much more in line with something like binary domain, less so vanquish, because it's a lot slower.

Tom: But it's something you can see has some comparison in feel to great third-person shooters of today, whereas Resident Evil was totally unique.

Tom: And I don't think any games til this day really feel like it.

Tom: So that's perhaps somewhere where they're not quite as good as the original.

Tom: But it's got exactly the same sort of feeling to the pacing, which is an amazing achievement for a game that is released in...

Tom: Was it in ?

Tom: I think

Tom: So that, my major fear was thankfully avoided.

Tom: And I think you can make an argument in some ways that, like, a lot about the merch and how the merch works is streamlined, but in a way that it makes the experience better.

Tom: Because other than my only enjoyment of the merch in the first game, I was the character himself.

Tom: Dealing with the way the system worked wasn't particularly enjoyable to me, so I think that's one area they improved on as well.

Tom: So I think they took what was potentially an impossible task and somehow pulled off making a game that was, some people say it's better than the original.

Tom: I don't agree with that because I think the pacing is up there with the original, but the feeling of the combat is not quite there.

Tom: The one important change which makes it into a much more dynamic thing is the way the belay system works.

Tom: It's much more dynamic, and from what I can remember of the original, it's much more important and powerful compared to the original.

Tom: But that's not enough for me to say it's more enjoyable because that kind of makes it more in line with other third-person shooters today.

Tom: So all in all, to me, it's not as good as the original, but it is a similarly incredible experience, and it keeps the soul of the original, which is a pretty amazing achievement.

Tom: And it's also worth playing if you played the original, which is, for a remake, another incredible achievement.

Phil: Vader, what did you think about the remake?

Dave: Hey, you kind of summed up how I feel.

Dave: I think it's an amazing achievement to take such a masterpiece.

Dave: Like, that's daunting.

Dave: To ask a new team to be like, through Resident Evil you're like, what?

Dave: Like, that's a perfect game.

Dave: Like, that game is still plays today.

Dave: Today, you could play that game and be like, wow.

Dave: To do that and say, make it again, like, make it newer.

Dave: What?

Dave: And they did it.

Dave: And it managed to feel as exciting, as fresh.

Dave: Well, not as fresh, but it is as exciting, and the mechanics are updated.

Dave: So this is where I think people are going to split.

Dave: I think there are a lot of people that think this new one is better, simply because they can't go back and play a game where a guy has to stand still and shoot, which we could have a debate for all time.

Tom: I don't like realism.

Phil: Let me just say that as someone who has a gun license and shoots, right?

Phil: Standing still while you shoot is an important thing if you want to actually kill things.

Dave: Absolutely.

Dave: But for a video game, everybody is trained to move and shoot and do a dual analog stick movement.

Dave: And so I see that as a barrier for a lot of newer players that go back and play maybe Resident Evil and they're like, well, I see how it's fun, like they encounter their fun, but I can't play the game.

Dave: I've seen that so many times from younger players.

Dave: And this new one kind of gives them that.

Dave: It allows them to play this game with modern controls and experience that fun roller coaster ride with the same amazing encounter design.

Dave: It's just intense from start to finish.

Dave: Yeah, it's an amazing game.

Dave: And there's a few things that it does better, like set pieces are more bombastic.

Dave: There is, I think, I think it's a little bit harder, honestly, or maybe I've just got really good at Resident Evil and I kind of forgot, you know, like if it was any difficult.

Dave: But this one feels like they were a lot more aggressive with you.

Dave: They will come and charge at you, and they will hit you, and like damages feels more visceral in this game.

Dave: And they also like they fall apart in like new ways, like you can shoot them.

Dave: There's certain enemies that limbs will come off, and they keep coming.

Dave: Those, the church guys that have that tentacle thing that come out of their head, like that thing is brutal to kill.

Dave: Like in the original, you just kind of shoot them a few times, but here, they're like tanks, and like they didn't just...

Dave: It's so well done.

Dave: It's a fantastic game.

Dave: It's missing a few encounters from the original.

Dave: Like they cut a few things.

Dave: It's okay.

Dave: Resident Evil is huge.

Dave: It's a huge game.

Dave: But so because of that, I will still pick the original.

Dave: And also the original was not just a great action game.

Dave: It was revolutionary for its time.

Dave: And this is not that.

Dave: You know, as cool as this game is, this has all been done before.

Dave: This is just a very refined experience.

Dave: But it is one of the better action games I played in years.

Phil: Revolutionary and influential, because obviously it went on to inspire Gears of War, which went on to inspire hundreds of other games, like Cent Blood on the Sand.

Dave: Yeah, so I never expected Resident Evil Remake to beat the original, but it came close, and that's a lot more than I thought it would.

Dave: So I am just pleased.

Dave: I love this remake.

Dave: I've already played it like five, six times.

Dave: It is fantastic.

Dave: And I don't know how many of you played, but the separate ways Ada add on is brilliant.

Dave: It is not like the separate ways that came out for the other one.

Dave: This is like a missing chapter, and it has the missing boss fight, which was that it creature that was in the original, which was that thing that had the...

Dave: that chased you in those big shipping containers that you're up in the air, and then it was chasing you, and then you battle it.

Dave: That creature is in the expansion.

Dave: So they brought back the one missing boss fight, basically, and it's just a fantastic expansion.

Dave: Amazing.

Tom: I've not played it, unfortunately.

Dave: Yeah, it's good.

Tom: There are actually two things I forgot to mention.

Tom: One, the QTEs were removed, which is a great improvement.

Tom: And the other thing, I think, that was both a disappointment but also kind of worked better sometimes was the way they handled the story.

Tom: I think they made Louise into a more interesting subplot, but they certainly self-censored some of the more questionable lines in the game, which I think removed a lot of the charm from the story.

Dave: Yeah, I think the original Resident Evil storyline was like a tongue-in-cheek joke at American action movies.

Dave: And they even said it.

Dave: Dylan mentioned, you think you're in an action Hollywood movie?

Dave: You think you're the hero?

Dave: And it was kind of like a play on that.

Dave: It was tongue-in-cheek, kind of serious.

Dave: It struck a great balance, where this remake does try to go really straight with everything.

Dave: Like, hey, we're telling a really...

Dave: Like, it has its moments, because Leon still does have some good one-liners in this game, but it's not like the original game, where the original played the line a lot closer to kind of making fun, kind of being cheesy, kind of being all s-style action movie.

Dave: This one's a little bit more serious.

Dave: It does have better characterization, like you said, with Lewis.

Dave: I think Ashley is a more fleshed-out character, but is missing some of that charm.

Tom: And it's a lot less pervy.

Dave: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Okay, great.

Phil: Well, thanks again, Veda, for coming on the show.

Dave: Absolutely.

Dave: Glad to be here.

Phil: Well, that was fantastic.

Phil: We've known Dee Veda for a long time, and it's good to know that he knew the guy that got that rumor out there today about Capcom.

Phil: So, yeah, we'll definitely have him back on perhaps next show to talk about REand REbecause that's some of the games that we didn't get to talk about today.

Tom: But if you want more Dee Veda content, you can listen to Episode Episode and Episode

Phil: Okay, that was a good conversation.

Phil: Now, before we close out the show, I've got questions for Tom.

Phil: These are questions for Tom from other people's podcasts.

Phil: I wasn't satisfied with the answer, so I brought them over here.

Phil: First question.

Phil: Parker from Houston writes, Do you think achievements as a meta-liar in games have been used to their full potential?

Phil: It really seems like achievements are challenging, unique, and interesting all at once.

Phil: I feel like the system could be used to encourage players to engage with the game system in unique ways, but these kinds of achievements seem rare.

Tom: Did you just say a meta-liar?

Phil: A meta-layer.

Tom: Meta-layer.

Tom: A meta-layer.

Phil: I guess the only time I've seen achievements used on a meta-layer is like, what if it was the name of the guy with the British guys talking to you the whole time?

Phil: The protocol?

Phil: Stanley Protocol?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: I think there have been a few games that have done that.

Tom: That is one that comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others as well.

Phil: It's definitely underutilized, though.

Tom: It's definitely rare, that's for sure.

Tom: But by the same token, I think beyond jokes, is there a particularly interesting way to use them?

Phil: Well, the writer Parker says he wants achievements to be challenging.

Phil: Okay, well, I think you've got that down, because, you know, collectathon.

Phil: Unique and interesting.

Phil: He wants achievements that are unique and interesting.

Phil: That's a hard call, though, unless you get jokey with them.

Phil: What I would probably do, like if I had to think of something unique and interesting, but it's still probably pretty jokey, is that after you get five achievements, it unlocks all the other achievements in the game.

Phil: Or something like that.

Phil: Like, if you unlock five, they give you ten.

Phil: You know, if you unlock ten, they give you, you know, fifty.

Phil: Just some...

Phil: And so that you'd have that ping of achievements coming up and up and up, you know, like, for two minutes.

Phil: That's probably been done to some extent before.

Tom: I think another satisfying and rare and more interesting than usual form of achievement is when you are playing a game that allows for some degree of creativity in the gameplay, and you do something that's a random combination of things that you think wouldn't have been thought of and it results in an achievement.

Phil: Yeah, that would be good, but you know who, that would piss off completionists, because they'd be like, how do I get this achievement, you know?

Phil: Yeah, but if you did a unique enough thing...

Phil: Those are the achievements I always like, is the unexpected ones, where you've done something, and they're sort of acknowledging, hey, you know, you've done something cool here.

Phil: Tough to engineer, though, I imagine.

Phil: And for the developer, I'm imagining that achievements are pretty low on the list of priorities for them.

Tom: I don't know, they do get quite a lot of importance.

Tom: Maybe not to the average player, but given the number of forums and internet posts devoted to achievements and trophies, there has to be a pretty large cult following that would probably be seriously considered in the development of a lot of games, I would think.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Moving on to another one, Brian from Nebraska writes, When Gabe Newell leaves Valve, will it change?

Phil: That's an interesting question.

Phil: What's the importance of Gabe Newell to Valve, I guess?

Tom: I think Gabe Newell exists as a cult of personality, not necessarily within the company, I don't know if that's the case or not, but within the broader internet and in terms of gamers' conception of Valve.

Tom: I think without the existence of Gabe Newell, people will be a lot harsher about Valve.

Phil: Isn't that interesting?

Phil: Because he's basically made his millions at Microsoft and then went out and created Valve.

Phil: They went and got the Source engine to Doom from the guys at id Gaming, which I think is why the Source engine is called the Source, because they just basically were given the Source code for free.

Phil: I think Gabe has reached a legendary kind of level, and I think for us who came up with Steam, first hating it and then accepting it, and then, okay, this is actually a pretty good way of doing this.

Phil: There was always that, oh, well, we don't...

Phil: Because people say, well, what happens if Valve goes away?

Phil: And people will be like, oh, well, Gabe said that he will give you the ability to download these games to be used in perpetuity, which of course is impossible, because those are rights that as the merchandiser, he does not have.

Phil: He can't just give us all of these games for free.

Phil: And everyone sort of sees him as the patron saint of digital gaming, I think, and that when a big personality like that leaves a company, we don't know what the inner workings of Valve are, obviously.

Phil: They're a very unique company.

Phil: Probably the closest thing next to it would be obviously GOG, because they're still developing games like The Witcher and Cyberpunk, whereas Valve doesn't really publish games anymore, or very rarely.

Phil: Yeah, I think definitely Valve will have to change when Gabe leaves, because to a certain extent, in terms of a small company's politics, there's going to be things that people don't even propose right now, because they know that Gabe would not be for it.

Phil: Once Gabe's out the door, it's only natural that people would go, you know, we've never really talked about doing this before, but what if we do this?

Tom: Maybe they'll develop a game.

Phil: Yeah, maybe they'll develop a game.

Phil: And, you know, it could be positive or negative, or will be positive and negative when Gabe leaves Valve.

Phil: But, yeah, I guess we just can't know.

Phil: Okay, on to Adam, who writes, who will be the person memorialized for bringing games to the mainstream?

Phil: Miyamoto?

Phil: Carmack?

Phil: Gabe Newell?

Phil: A lot of Gabe today.

Tom: Reggie Philzane.

Phil: Reggie Phil-Feeza-Me?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Um, who's the person memorialized for bringing games to the mainstream?

Phil: What is the mainstream?

Tom: He's the person I associate with the Wii.

Phil: Yeah, okay, but, you know, before that, you had the Atari, right?

Phil: And the Atari was definitely a mainstream, uh, you know, fad, the way that the Wii was.

Tom: The reason I say the Wii, and maybe this also occurred with the Atari, but until the Wii, I think normal people did not play video games, at least not in Australia.

Tom: If you played games pre-Wii, you were a nerd or in some way negatively looked down upon by the broader population.

Phil: Yeah, do you think that's still in play today, though?

Tom: I don't think so.

Tom: Not at all.

Phil: I think there's still...

Phil: Look, I mean, I hate to say this, but is it Steve Jobs, because of the invention of the iPhone in that's brought gaming to the mainstream, right?

Phil: I mean, because you've got demographics of people that would never consider playing games, playing games on phones.

Tom: Well, this is where you have to define what games are, whether you mean literally games or you mean games in the sense that gamers use the term games, because there's a big, I think, split between those two spheres of existence.

Phil: If you look at the game that you play, though, The Sky, Children of the Sky, is that what it's called?

Tom: Children of the Light.

Phil: Children of the Light, Sky, yeah?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: I mean, that's a game that...

Phil: Is that a mainstream game?

Phil: Probably not.

Phil: But there's a broad demographic of people that play it.

Phil: It's not just people you'd think of as gamers.

Tom: Well, that's one of the most interesting things about it is the broad selection of people playing it.

Tom: It consists of people who also play console and PC games, people who play very casual mobile games or no other games, and people who play more traditional style games on their mobile phones as well.

Tom: But that's not, generally speaking, the case.

Phil: Would you...

Phil: Okay, so I think the contenders are Atari Dude.

Phil: What's his name?

Tom: Nolan, right?

Tom: Nolan Bushnell?

Phil: Nolan Bushnell from Atari.

Phil: I think the second one would be whoever was in charge of Nintendo at the time when they produced the Wii.

Phil: Reggie?

Phil: Well, Reggie was Nintendo of America.

Phil: Who was a nice fellow?

Phil: Satoru Iwata in Japan.

Phil: I think we've got to acknowledge Nintendo of America is basically a publicity arm of Nintendo rather than a development arm.

Tom: That's precisely why I'm picking Reggie, because the question is who brought it to the mainstream.

Phil: Right, right, right.

Phil: Yeah, okay, you got an argument.

Phil: I still think, and I am not an Apple dude, but you could make also an argument for Steve Jobs.

Tom: I think that's a good choice too.

Phil: I don't think that you can say Notch with the creator of Minecraft, or Epic as a creator of Fortnite, or Satan as the creator of Roblox.

Phil: I don't think any of those get a mention, because those are still gamey games.

Tom: And the interesting thing about those games is they're sort of a throwback, because if you think about Minecraft, not really Roblox, but Fortnite to some degree, the media presentation and general perception of those games is that they are some sort of weird other outsider phenomenon that has broken through to the mainstream.

Phil: Yeah, right.

Phil: Yep, I agree.

Tom: So in a sense, despite their huge popularity, they're in a sense not mainstream.

Phil: Right, right.

Phil: And you can say the same thing about John Carmack and Doom and Quake and all of those ones, because they never broke into the mainstream in any way possible.

Phil: I don't think we're going to settle this today, but I think we've got at least the starting ground of a good conversation there.

Phil: I think, yeah, I would say Atari because that was really broad and wide on the basis of the arcade scene.

Phil: It's undeniable and unquestionable that it probably had the same thing, if not slightly more, than mainstream.

Phil: And then whether or not we want to count mobile gaming as something or not, I would certainly say that it is.

Phil: I think those are probably the three.

Phil: We haven't forgotten anyone else, have we?

Tom: I think those are the three most logical choices, I think.

Tom: But the first two options we both went for, I do have to point out, I think they're based not so much on logic, but purely our respective ages.

Phil: Yes, and experience and knowledge.

Phil: Now, I'm not saying when I was playing Atari when I was a young person, by then the fad had already gone and died, right?

Phil: By the time I was doing it.

Phil: And certainly here in Australia, it was certainly a thing where uncles were buying them.

Phil: You know what I mean?

Phil: The demand wasn't coming from kids.

Phil: And look, someone could also say, what about the NES?

Phil: Well, yeah, the NES was very popular and brought console gaming back, but I don't think it broadened it out to the mainstream.

Phil: So how many more questions you want to take here, Tom?

Tom: It's up to you, Phil.

Phil: Okay, well, I think we'll just close out with this one.

Phil: Scott writes, Prince of Persia The Lost Crown returned the series to its D roots.

Phil: What other franchise do you think would benefit from this D treatment, either for the first time or back to how it used to be?

Phil: So the obvious other example would be Mario, Super Mario Wonder.

Phil: You know, Nintendo does this all the time, going backwards and forwards between D.

Phil: But what other franchise do you think would benefit from the D treatment?

Tom: I think it's hard to pick many franchises that did not return to the D treatment at some point.

Tom: Donkey Kong will be one that immediately comes to mind, but that has had a return to its D roots at various times.

Tom: So I'm trying to think of a more interesting choice here.

Tom: Maybe Doom.

Tom: I think that could be interesting.

Tom: I think a two-dimensional classic style Doom developed by the present Doom developers could make for an exceptional game.

Phil: It's funny that you should mention that because I have been playing a Sirius Sam D game, Top Down Shooter, which is very, very cool.

Phil: I forget what it's called, but it should be pretty easy for people to find.

Phil: But yeah, it is fantastic.

Phil: It plays like RoboTron.

Phil: So you know, a top-down, and you're basically...

Phil: It is top-down in a way, but he's side on D, and it's all pixel art.

Phil: I was going to say Yakuza, so they could go back and do it like a double dragon type beat-em-up.

Tom: That could work very well.

Tom: You lose a lot of the exploration, potentially, though.

Phil: What about Gran Turismo?

Phil: Like, what if you took those physics and then applied it to a D...

Phil: a top-down over the, you know...

Tom: Isometric.

Phil: D racer.

Phil: Not isometric like RC Pro-M, but just like Spy Hunter, you know.

Tom: I think those physics would be a little bit awkward, but it does work more complicated physics in Art of Rally and Absolute Drift, so it could work.

Phil: Yeah, I think there's lots of opportunities there for all sorts of games.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto, Chinatown, China Wars, whatever that one was called, for the DS, was a fantastic return to what it was, but obviously much better.

Phil: Okay, well, thanks for that, Tom.

Phil: Thanks for answering those questions.

Phil: You did answer them better than the original podcast, so that's fantastic.

Phil: So with that, thank you for listening to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: You can visit our website, gameunder.net, where we occasionally post contact, but as Tom has pointed out, it's also a great place.

Phil: We have a fantastic search engine on there for you to go back and find any game that you're actually interested in, because we are Australia's longest running video game podcast.

Phil: I have been Phil Fogg.

Tom: And I've been Tom Towers.

Tom: And I'm giving you, Phil Fogg, some homework to do between now and the next episode, and that is listen to all of the previous episodes, as I'm getting the impression you don't remember anything about any of them.

Phil: No, no, but I guess our real actual homework is for me and you to play Roblox before the next episode.

Tom: So I was hoping that would have been another thing you'd forget.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Thanks, Tom.

Phil: Uh, let me tell this junko.

Tom: Craig to piss off How do I do this off?

Phil: Yeah, how do I do that?

Phil: I don't want to kick him, I don't want to ban him.

Phil: How do I get the chat back?

Tom: General, maybe?

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: You know all the shit.

Dave: Bye-bye.

Game Under Podcast 146 - GTA Richmond

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

00:00:21 Intro

00:01:17 News

00:24:51 Baldur's Gate 3 Review

00:53:29 Paper Mario: The Origami King

00:58:45 Trademark Banter - The Original Tom's Insurance Scam (Perfectly Legal)

00:01:24 Phil asks Tom Other People's Listener's Questions

Transcript:
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Keen listeners who have a memory that stretches back a very long time will no doubt recall that I am Tom Towers, and that I am always joined by my co-host, Phil Fogg.

Phil: Hi everyone, I'm Phil Fogg.

Phil: I don't know what he's talking about.

Phil: We've been here every week for Australia's longest running podcast.

Tom: These days, just to interrupt you, these days I think a week is a very long time.

Phil: That is true.

Tom: It feels almost like many, many months, almost like a year and a half.

Phil: But on all the subscription services, it says that we've already done episodes, but this is episode

Tom: Are we skipping some special episodes we've done?

Phil: I think so.

Phil: We only put the real number on the real show, of which this is, so I guess we better do one.

Phil: We'll start with some news.

Phil: I don't know if you're up with the talk of the town, but this Pokemon game with guns is getting quite a lot of buzz.

Phil: It had more concurrent Steam players than Cyberpunk or Elden Ring.

Tom: Is this also an augmented reality game?

Phil: I don't believe so, no.

Tom: So we don't have children running around with guns shooting invisible Pokemon.

Phil: That would be fantastic.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: So the name of the game is Palworld.

Phil: So it's basically a Pokemon, not a Pokemon Go.

Tom: So it's not an official Pokemon game either?

Phil: No, it's not.

Phil: And it's been in early access.

Phil: It just got released a couple of days ago, and I think they've sold million copies.

Phil: But I was looking at the artwork and video today, and it looks just like a Pokemon game.

Phil: Apparently, it's heavily skewed with a lot of off-color humor involving animal cruelty, which some people are concerned about.

Tom: I mean, Pokemon has that too, does it not?

Phil: Well, I think that's the commentary.

Tom: So, it's satirizing Pokemon.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Well, I think they've said it's a homage to Pokemon, which, I don't know, helps or hurts them in terms of getting sued by Nintendo.

Phil: But who would you think would be behind this as a developer?

Tom: Apparently, Pocket Pear is.

Phil: Pocket Pear?

Phil: Do you know what Pocket Pear is?

Tom: I think I'm going to assume a pair of trousers?

Phil: No, no, it's a pair of Japanese men in Tokyo.

Phil: Which makes it okay somehow in my head, because I was thinking, oh, this is some sort of Tencent China, you know, exploitation or, you know, some...

Tom: Because it's Japanese, your issue is that if it was China doing it, it would be cultural appropriation, I assume.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: But because it's Japanese...

Tom: But of course, we know that basically all Japanese culture is culturally appropriated from China.

Tom: I think we can give them a bit of leeway.

Phil: Well, we don't have a lot of Japanese listeners, so I think we can say that, but...

Phil: And the other fact is that it's a small team.

Phil: It's just two dudes.

Phil: So that, I think, for them to do...

Phil: Well, obviously, it's going to be more than two dudes, but they haven't done any other games.

Tom: It's two dudes taking all the credit.

Phil: Yeah, two dudes taking all the credit, which is how is that different from anything else in history?

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Like Buzz Lightyear and Neil Armstrong, you know, or the other guy.

Tom: They stole the credit from Woody completely.

Phil: Have you seen this game at all?

Phil: Do you have any interest in it?

Tom: This is the first time I've ever heard of it.

Phil: Okay, Pal World.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But I am, I have to admit, marginally intrigued.

Tom: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: I think the sense of humour is what carries it a fair bit, and also the guns, because, as I've often pointed out, if you introduce guns to any, to most genres, it improves them.

Tom: Luckily, most genres already have guns in them.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: In particular, games made by Machine Games, the makers of Wolfenstein, the new Wolfenstein games.

Phil: The first one was fantastic.

Phil: I thought the second one, did you play the second one?

Tom: I did not.

Tom: I think I borrowed it from you, and I played the first level, but that was as far as I got.

Phil: Fantastic action, fantastic shooting.

Phil: And the second one was a lot too talky.

Phil: There's just way too much walking and interaction with NPCs, for my liking.

Phil: And then they made New Blood, which I think was based on, well, I know was based on BJ Blazkowicz, the antagonist of the Wolfenstein series Daughters.

Tom: Isn't he the protagonist, not the antagonist?

Phil: Well, depends on if you're a Hitler or not, I guess.

Phil: Yeah, okay, so from your frame, from your lens, yeah, he's the protagonist.

Tom: From the allied worlds, he's the protagonist, but from the axis perspective, he's the antagonist.

Tom: So we know where your loyalty lies now.

Phil: Yeah, so anyway, those dudes, right, they're making the Indiana Jones game, which Microsoft is publishing and is going to release on their subscription service.

Phil: News number one, it's coming out in which is good news for people who want to watch an Indiana Jones movie made by MachineGames.

Phil: And other notable things is it's first person, and this is the other talk of the town today, is the controversy.

Phil: Well, this is an Indiana Jones game, and Indiana Jones was a basis for Tomb Raider and Uncharted, so it should be a third person action game.

Phil: But it's actually a first person game, so thoughts?

Tom: Not sure what the logic there is, why it would have to be third person, just because there were previously third person games that were inspired by the films.

Tom: I don't think that really tracks logically.

Phil: No, it doesn't.

Phil: Unless you have a very small brain and can only get your head around, well, I thought this was going to be like Uncharted.

Phil: But if it's going to be like Uncharted, what's the point?

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: And I think, well, the point would be to make an Uncharted that might be good, would be point number one.

Tom: Point number two, I think, is to take it in a different direction rather than thinking of it as them doing an Indiana Jones game, and therefore it should be third person.

Tom: Another way to look at it is, this is the Machine Games, the Nazi developer, and they're making another Nazi game, so it should be in first person perspective.

Phil: Yeah, and I don't know if you know that Machine Games was formed by the founders of Starbreeze.

Phil: Yeah, Starbreeze made The Darkness and also with Vin Diesel, Chronicles of Riddick.

Phil: And Chronicles of Riddick was originally an Xbox exclusive first person action game, which was critically, and I don't know how commercially successful it was, but it was critically well received, and particularly at the time also for being a very good licensed game.

Phil: So when you now know that the guys whose first game was Chronicles of Riddick, which was a licensed first person action game, are now making as Machine Games an Indiana Jones thing, I think that this could be fantastic.

Phil: It could also be very bad because Troy Baker is playing indie.

Tom: Was Troy Baker also Nathan Drake, or was that one of the other two big voice actors?

Phil: Troy Baker was the dude in pretty much everything, but he was in The Last of Us.

Phil: He was the brother in The Last Uncharted game.

Tom: So he had at least one role in Uncharted.

Phil: Yes, yeah.

Phil: But yeah, I'm looking forward to it, mostly on the basis of I was impressed with Machine Gun's first game, the first Wolfenstein, and I was thoroughly impressed with their very first game at Starbreeze as Chronicles of Riddick.

Phil: And Indiana Jones, I've been recently watching all of those movies again.

Phil: Have you watched all of the Indiana Jones movies?

Tom: I've watched the first one, which I enjoyed a lot.

Tom: I think I've seen at least two-thirds of the second one.

Phil: Yeah, not as good in most people's consideration.

Tom: I would also agree with that, and that's about it.

Phil: Yeah, the third one was fantastic.

Phil: That's the one with River Phoenix's young Indy and Sean Connery as Harrison Ford's dad or Indiana Jones's dad.

Phil: And that's The Last Crusade.

Phil: That to me is the best one.

Phil: And then they had the other one, which I watched the other day with Shia LaBeouf, which was okay, but poor.

Phil: And then I watched the last one, The Dial of Destiny, that came out this year, well, in and it was not good.

Phil: But anyway, as things go, perhaps something you'd be more interested in is Stalker

Phil: Have you been following its development?

Tom: Well, the last thing I would add on Indiana Jones is I think the thing that will be the best fit about machine games for an Indiana Jones game is I think their sense of humor is very similar to the sense of humor in the films.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd say so.

Phil: And Indy is an interesting character.

Phil: I mean, he's a guy that doesn't have a lot of confidence or ability, and I think that's what makes him sort of that everyman type hero, which is what Uncharted was aspiring to as well.

Tom: I think Indiana Jones, like Han Solo, is Harrison Ford.

Tom: I think if you removed Harrison Ford from that role, I don't think there would be much to the character personally.

Phil: Here's some truth.

Phil: Do you know who they originally cast for the role?

Phil: But then he couldn't do it because he had to play Magnum PI?

Phil: Tom Selleck.

Tom: I don't think that would have worked as well.

Tom: So that was, that was, that was fortuitous.

Tom: Twist of fate.

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

Phil: So Stalker what's your relationship with the franchise?

Tom: Well, the original Stalker is one of my favorite games of all time.

Tom: And I think you can make a very good argument for it being the best first person shooter ever made, depending on how you want to define that.

Tom: Of course, there is some stiff competition there if you're more interested in faster and more pure mechanics, such as Doom, among others.

Tom: But there's also a good argument to make.

Tom: It's the greatest open world game as well.

Tom: You could also make an argument it's the best Western RPG.

Tom: In addition to that, it's a game that just has an amazing breadth, complexity and depth to its gameplay, from the mechanics of the gunplay to the way the AI works in the world and the way you interact with it.

Tom: And narratively, it is just as engrossing as the gameplay is.

Phil: Have the guys that made Stalker done anything since Stalker?

Phil: I mean, there was DLC and other chapters added, I think.

Tom: They made two more Stalker games.

Tom: And I think that might actually have been it.

Phil: And, you know, forgive me, but is this the game where when you're above the surface, you've got a limited amount of air that you can use, or you're exposed to radiation?

Phil: That's that game, right?

Tom: That is Metro that you're thinking of there.

Tom: And that is heavily inspired by Stalker.

Phil: Righto, righto.

Phil: And the guys that developed this, where are they from?

Tom: The Ukraine, I believe.

Phil: Okay, that's right.

Phil: And that's why the development's probably been a little bit delayed and troubled, one would imagine.

Tom: That's right, except that may also just be their excuse, given that the original Stalker was meant to come out many, many years before it actually did.

Tom: And there was nothing like a war going on in Ukraine at that time either.

Phil: No, or COVID for that matter.

Phil: I mean, they're starting to stack up the years of excuses.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: But they say now that it will, it was supposed to come out like in the next three months, but now it will be coming out in September which is the news.

Tom: So we might be seeing it within the next two to five years, we might guess.

Phil: Yeah, unless Russia wins the war, in which case...

Tom: Maybe they'll fast track it.

Tom: Maybe they'll apply some reasonable standards to what is expected of Ukrainian companies.

Phil: All right, anything else on Stalker before we move on to the last news story?

Tom: Just a correction.

Tom: Apparently, they also developed after Call of Pripyat, the third Stalker game, Cossacks

Phil: Cossacks ?

Phil: Was that like Stalker ?

Tom: It's a real time strategy game for PC.

Phil: Oh, really?

Phil: Is it based on the Stalker universe or just a whole new thing?

Tom: It's a remake of Cossacks European Wars.

Tom: So I think it is unrelated to the Stalker universe.

Phil: Okay, so that's a bit confusing.

Phil: I bet some one of the developers had something to do with the original.

Tom: In fact, they apparently developed the original Cossacks game.

Phil: Well, it's always fun to go back to the things that you've started, I guess.

Phil: I'm surprised that you didn't know about that.

Phil: You're not really a real-time strategy type guy, right?

Tom: I do enjoy real-time strategy games, but I haven't played that many of them.

Phil: Yeah, might pique your interest to go have a look at that one.

Phil: And Cossacks

Phil: Speaking of Cossacks, the UK retailer Game, which I think is somehow related to EB Games and an American Game stop, is stopping taking trade-ins next month, and they're going to sell through their traded games, and then no longer offer traded games at all.

Phil: So there's only one other retailer in the UK that has not yet stated whether they are going to follow Game in this manner.

Phil: But yeah, I guess that's the death knell, and it's kind of funny because as I was talking to people in our community about this, for years who have been ardent physical-only protagonists, I guess, or antagonists, depending on what side you're on, they've all gone, well, digital is kind of convenient, and there's a lot less clutter.

Phil: I think something like % of the games being purchased for the current gen are being bought digital only.

Phil: We've all made the switch years ago, if not over a decade, on the PC side to digital only.

Phil: So I guess this is coming.

Phil: Probably only collectors' items and limited runs, I would imagine, are in the future until they actually take the drives out of these consoles.

Tom: Quite possibly.

Tom: I think the actually, and even more interesting aspect of this is, I would have assumed that the trade-ins of games, given the very little money that you receive when trading in a game, would be one of the few ways they were managing to remain profitable.

Phil: Yeah, it really was a rivers of gold type situation for them, because you take a game in, they give you $for it, they turn around and sell it for $or whatever.

Phil: I mean, that's quite normal at these kinds of stores.

Phil: So I just don't know if it's just the volume isn't there anymore.

Tom: It must be that not enough people are buying them.

Phil: Not enough people are buying physical media, otherwise they wouldn't be doing everything.

Phil: I don't know if you've been into a retail video game store lately, but I would say easily less than a quarter of the store is dedicated to things other than physical media.

Tom: I've noticed walking past them that there appears to be a much larger focus on merchandise as opposed to actual games.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, it's obviously inevitable and sad.

Phil: Well, it's sad for me because I've always found buying used games to be a great way to buy games that I otherwise would not have.

Phil: And in just buying physical games, I buy a lot of physical new games as well, particularly for Switch because of lack of internet connectivity where I am in Australia.

Phil: And I don't think the infrastructure where I live is going to catch up before the death of physical media.

Phil: I don't think the console manufacturers particularly care.

Phil: And why would they?

Phil: I mean, the users are telling them what's important to them.

Phil: So, yeah, anyway, I think it's just a sign of the times.

Phil: In two years, I'd be surprised if there are any physical game retailers as we want to know them.

Tom: I think it shows that console players must not be as thrifty as PC gamers, because I haven't bought a console game in a while now, but the last time I was looking, I did notice, maybe this has changed very recently, but I'm not sure if it has.

Tom: I noticed that there's still a gap between these sorts of sales that you get on consoles compared to on Steam, both in terms of frequency and discount.

Tom: But in physical stores, the price of used games was much closer to what you would find in a Steam sale.

Tom: So it's surprising in some ways that this is the case, given that the physical copies appear to be, from my experience, better value than buying digitally.

Phil: And that might be just motivated from retailers trying to free up space, free up floor space.

Phil: What have we done with these boxes everywhere?

Phil: Okay, well, that was the Week in News.

Phil: So with that, I guess we'll get into what we've been playing, or more importantly, what you've been playing.

Phil: Which one do you feel most passionate about this week, Tom?

Tom: Well, we should surely go with what is the game of the moment in Baldur's Gate

Phil: So you've been playing it on PC, I'm guessing?

Tom: That's correct.

Tom: I've been playing it via a friend's GOG account.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And unlike most GOG games, which are all, of course, DRM-free, I'm not sure you can quite say it is DRM-free.

Tom: It's DRM-free in the sense that I can be playing his copy of the game, but it's not DRM-free in the sense that I can just download it and play it, because I needed to use the GOG Galaxy interface for one step of this process.

Tom: And whenever I open the game, it automatically opens GOG Galaxy and Larian's own launcher.

Tom: And I'm yet to figure out a way where I can launch it without opening GOG Galaxy.

Tom: So I personally would categorize that as a form of DRM, even if it's not restricting me from playing it in this potentially questionable manner.

Phil: You haven't gotten into impressions yet, so maybe if we dip our toes back into the news on this topic, because Larian, this last week, we didn't talk about it in the news, but a Ubisoft spokesperson who is in charge of digital sales and subscriptions basically said that gamers need to get used to the fact that they don't own their games, and ownership of games isn't important.

Phil: They can just use subscription services.

Phil: So sort of kind of what we've just been talking about.

Phil: And then the head of Larian came back and said, if you're waiting for our game to go to a subscription service, hell will freeze over before that happens.

Phil: We are not going to put our game on to a subscription service.

Phil: Now, this is probably in large part because Larian did have this game originally, Baldur's Gate as part of the Amazon Stadium, or Google Stadia, rather.

Phil: So their game was going to be a Google Stadia exclusive, and then of course that whole thing fell over, which was probably a good thing for them because it gave them more money to develop the game to the standard that it's currently in, which you'll tell us about soon.

Phil: And some of the responses that prompted this Ubisoft comment of, well, gamers just need to get used to the fact that they don't need to own their games.

Phil: You know, some have said, well, if I can't, is it piracy if I'm taking what cannot be owned?

Phil: Right?

Phil: Which I thought was an interesting philosophical question.

Phil: If no one owns the games, then what's stopping someone who's smart enough to figure out how to evade the kinds of mechanisms that you're talking about from doing it?

Tom: Well, I think the subtext here is that the publisher still owns the game, but you don't get to own a copy of it.

Phil: Right.

Phil: And they get to sell the access to the game.

Tom: That's right.

Phil: So they're not selling you the game, they're selling you the access to the game.

Tom: They're renting it to you.

Phil: Yeah, but you look at the copy I've got over there in the archive of some Bethesda game, I forget which one, where I've got the physical disc.

Phil: I paid cash money for it.

Phil: It wasn't a used game.

Phil: I put it in, and for whatever reason, I don't want to download the gig patch.

Phil: So they say, well, you can't play the game that's on the disc.

Phil: Well, so I guess I don't own it then.

Phil: I guess I own you guys telling me, well, I own the disc, and that's it.

Phil: But they still have the key as to whether or not I can play the game, whether I update it, which I completely understand if it's an online shooter, online game, we're cheating, and blah, blah, blah.

Phil: But it's Mad Max Fury Road.

Phil: It's like a single person action shooter.

Phil: So it's broken.

Tom: This is just an immersive ARG layer they've added to the game.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Oh, by the way, I'm still installing Control, the game that I bought on sale in

Phil: I download a little bit more of the update every week.

Tom: What are you up to now?

Phil: I'm up to the point where I can play it, but the game's broken and it doesn't have a lot of textures.

Phil: So, yeah, I'll get there.

Tom: Well, credit to them for letting you play the game before it's even fully downloaded, whereas Mad Max won't even let you play it off their disc.

Phil: Well, if the game is on the disc, I installed it, but they're like, no, you need to update, man.

Phil: I'm like, all right, I'll update.

Phil: And yeah, in the interim, while I've been installing their game, Remedy has released Alan Wake so I'm a little bit behind with my Remedy games.

Tom: You should probably start installing that now.

Phil: I should probably start installing that now so we can talk about it in two years.

Phil: Baldur's Gate you may as well start now with your impressions.

Phil: We'll pretend all of that was the news section.

Tom: I'll preface my impressions by stating, I'm not the biggest Western RPG fan.

Tom: There are some that I enjoy a lot, but I think a lot of them have just not ground me at all, including the so-called classics.

Tom: For instance, Neverwinter Nights, I found to be utterly boring and barely progressed out of the tutorial.

Tom: And I tried to get into the first two witches and could not, even though I enjoyed, ultimately enjoyed the third one a great deal, despite all of my problems with it.

Tom: So I may not be the best person to be providing impressions for it.

Tom: I just want to preface my impressions with that.

Phil: Right, and this one follows the more classic, so far as I know, I haven't played Battle Royale Skate but this one follows the more classic top-down, isometric type view RPG, is that right?

Tom: That's correct, and it also has more over D&D elements in it as well.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, which I absolutely love, because I played a bunch of those games in the PlayStation PSP era, and absolutely loved them.

Phil: The games that were done by Obsidian, that went on to do Pills of Eternity and other such things, so I'm a massive fan.

Phil: It's like a Diablo-type style, right?

Tom: Yeah, pretty much.

Tom: Not in terms of gameplay though, just in terms of the perspective.

Tom: The gameplay, unlike Diablo, is turn-based, or is very different?

Phil: Oh, okay, so this is turn-based, okay.

Phil: Well, that is different.

Tom: And thinking about it though, actually, there are, I think, enough Western RPGs that I love, such as, another one comes to mind, is Kotor, the original one, Jade Empire, Scepterra Core.

Tom: So I remove my preface and say that I, unlike most Western RPG fans, actually have standards and desire a great game.

Tom: That's how I'm going to justify what I'll be saying.

Phil: What about Fallout Las Vegas and Mass Effect?

Tom: The first-person Fallouts I have only briefly played.

Tom: I enjoyed the opening to Fallout but I think I just got out of the vault, and that was it, because I was playing that at my cousin's house.

Tom: And I was also playing Mass Effect at my cousin's house, and I enjoyed that, but again, I did not get very far into it.

Phil: So what should we change the name of the show?

Phil: Is that Tom Towers plays other people's games at other people's houses?

Tom: And at my own.

Tom: I'm playing Baldur's Gate here at my own house, but it's not my game.

Phil: Okay, but it's not your game.

Phil: This is fantastic.

Phil: All right, so Baldur's Gate it's a phenomenal success, won many Game of the Year awards everywhere.

Tom: It's touted as being the best RPG by many people, and I would go as far to say some people are sort of tentatively saying it's the best game of all time due to its breadth, I would say.

Phil: Right, so it's got branching paths in terms of its story.

Tom: And it's very long, very, very long.

Phil: And it's apparently flawless in terms of its technical execution as well.

Tom: That's what they say.

Tom: But I'm not sure I would agree, although I am a few patches behind.

Tom: But if they've been patching it, I don't think you could say that.

Tom: I have run into quite a few crashes, particularly when I'm on the leveling screen.

Tom: I've also run into quite a few frustrating glitches where I'll be entering a conversation, and everyone just stands around for two or three minutes before the conversation actually begins and things like that.

Tom: So I've also had some saves disappear as well, which was very frustrating.

Tom: That resulted in me losing, I think, a few hours of time at one point.

Tom: So I don't think you can say it is technically flawless.

Tom: But compared to, say, The Witcher early on, it's certainly a lot better than that.

Tom: Again, I think maybe we're dealing with RPG standards.

Tom: I mean, it's being compared to The Witcher, to Elder Scrolls.

Phil: Cyberpunk.

Tom: Cyberpunk.

Tom: So it's being compared to games that are released in a completely broken form and that have some pretty questionable gameplay elements and issues with depth to them as well, but are still loved by fans of the genre.

Tom: So I think we have to question what sort of standards are being applied to it at times as well.

Phil: Fair enough.

Phil: Fair enough.

Phil: So it's not to Nintendo standards where it just comes out of the box with no updates.

Phil: Absolutely correct.

Tom: Not at all.

Phil: You never need to do anything.

Phil: Not at all.

Phil: Which is what you'd expect for such a complex game.

Tom: Yeah, I think when you consider the size of it, it's understandable.

Tom: Whereas when you consider some of the bullshit going on in The Witcher or Elder Scrolls or what have you in the world of RPGs and their broken releases, it's definitely well beyond them.

Tom: But that doesn't mean that it is a flawless release or release to the standard of games in other genres.

Phil: OK, so before I ask any more specific questions, maybe you can just give us a loose, you know, minute by minute, OK, you're playing the game.

Phil: What is the hook?

Phil: What are you doing?

Phil: Just give us a general overview for those who haven't played it or at least they haven't heard your impression of it, and I think that's valuable enough for us to have a rehash of it.

Tom: Well, the thing that stands out early on, which is without a doubt one of the best things in the game and is definitely on another level compared to, I think, most RPGs.

Tom: I can't really think of one that does this as well off the top of my head.

Tom: So it's got all of the D&D rules with different elements being strong against one another and needing to know all this encyclopedic knowledge of how skills interact with other skills and different enemies and all of this sort of stuff.

Tom: But in addition to that, the way the environment works is sort of like a lighter version of something like XCOM or other turn-based strategy games.

Tom: So any difficult battle you're in, you are going to be needing to use the environment to your advantage.

Tom: And this can be a basic thing like knowing how you want your companions and yourself to be arranged on the battlefield to making sure that you have the high ground so that you have the advantage against ranged attacks and have the advantage if you're using someone using ranged attacks against people who might be trying to get in close and attack you in Malay.

Tom: So if you're looking at it from the perspective of a turn-based strategy game, it's the basic sort of stuff that those games are built on, but put in a D&D RPG combat system.

Tom: So it is an extremely engrossing and enjoyable combination.

Tom: And the fun thing about it is it doesn't stop there.

Tom: It goes beyond it and keeps what I think is one of the enjoyable aspects of Western RPGs, is the way you figure out how to take advantage of these things and turn it into a ridiculous and comical cheese fest.

Tom: I think that's always been what makes what would otherwise be a completely uninteresting combat system in Elder Scrolls, for example, enjoyable, is it's not about the janky and awkward combat mechanics.

Phil: Terrible and atrocious combat.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: It's about figuring out the most ridiculous solutions to any given battle.

Tom: And that is the case here.

Tom: You can do things like you're coming up to, I think a good example of this is, when you're invading early on this goblin fortress, depending on what path you're taking, you're there to kill three of the goblin leaders.

Tom: And one of them, at one point, it's near, she's near a bridge, and instead of fighting her, you can just simply throw her off the bridge out of combat.

Tom: And so that's a great solution.

Phil: You know, it was like that, that had the same sort of spirit.

Phil: What was that Lord of the Rings games?

Phil: You know, the ones that had the...

Tom: The third person action RPG ones?

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Phil: Oh, God, what can I remember?

Tom: I know what you're talking about.

Tom: I never played them.

Phil: Yeah, those were fantastic in terms of, you know, basically giving you an open mission and then you having to figure out how to actually do it.

Phil: And you could do it in any way possible.

Phil: And I just can't think of the name of it.

Phil: That's driving me crazy.

Phil: And I'm sure it's driving our listenership crazy as well, because I played through both of them.

Phil: And because, you know, the fun of it was, well, it encompasses the whole concept of play.

Phil: That's what play is about.

Phil: Play is about improvisation.

Phil: Play is about limited resources.

Phil: Play is about tripping someone when you can't win fair.

Phil: Or, you know, at least it is to me.

Phil: So, no, so they really captured that.

Tom: Absolutely.

Tom: And I'll correct myself.

Tom: I actually tried to play the first one on my old PC, and you had to have a DirectX, I think, or it might have been video card.

Tom: And I had a DirectX video card, so it locked me out of playing it, even though my video card probably would have been perfectly capable of running it.

Tom: And I made it into the menu and launched the game at frames per second.

Tom: So that was a proud achievement, figuring out a way to get into that game.

Tom: And I think that fits with what you were saying about the core tenet there of the gameplay, where you're figuring out unorthodox solutions to problems.

Tom: Even in being able to launch the game, they carried that through, so well done to them there.

Tom: That's a step above Baldur's Gate I think, where you have to use the GOG Galaxy Launcher to play it.

Tom: But this aspect, as I was saying, that continues throughout the whole game.

Tom: And the only area where they sort of fall down in the combat is, as they are increasing the difficulty of the combat, you run into more and more battles that are not so much about them coming up with interesting environmental elements that you can play in, but are more about just throwing a million enemies at you.

Tom: And for me anyway, that's a problem for two things.

Tom: One, it kind of forces you to be playing in a certain way, because then area of effect attacks become much more important, and you have to really focus on them in most battles, even if you had a different way you might have wanted to approach it.

Tom: And two, more importantly, it is turn-based.

Tom: So if you've got literally, say, enemies, you've got to sit there and wait for enemies to go through their fucking turns, where they may not even be doing anything interesting.

Tom: They're just dashing across the environment, because they begin two football fields away.

Tom: And you've got to sit through this, watching them dash along at the normal speed of the game.

Tom: And it's just, for me anyway, it just not only adds an uninteresting element of difficulty to the combat, it also adds a totally unnecessary time factor where essentially nothing is happening.

Tom: And it's just getting in the way of you concentrating on the enjoyable things about combat, which is figuring out what your strategy is, both in the moment and in the battle as a whole.

Phil: It sounds like a lot of good elements being brought together.

Phil: As a writer, I know you're always critical of the writing in games.

Phil: Are you critical of the writing in Stalker?

Tom: I think the writing in Stalker is some of the best writing in a game, because a lot of it is not done in writing, pretty much.

Tom: So that's why I said the narrative in Stalker is incredible.

Tom: The environmental storytelling in it is second to none, without a doubt.

Tom: And the atmosphere and the world they create is just totally engrossing and immersive, and open enough that if it's the sort of environment that clicks with you, you can add to it whatever thematic sort of feelings that you have at the time that you're playing it, which is one of the signs of the best sort of writing, in my opinion.

Phil: So the writing in this game, does it work for you?

Phil: Because a lot of people have been talking about how fantastic the narrative is, or I don't know if they're caught up on the gimmick of the branching paths, or the great stories and the side quests, but a lot of people are enjoying the game other than just the game mechanics and the world that it's set in.

Tom: Well, I think where it excels is with some of the companion characters, but definitely not all of them.

Tom: A couple of them have very interesting backstories that are nicely woven into the way that the main plot is progressing.

Tom: So as you're going along following the main story, their stories will be tangentially related to it, and some of them more directly related to it than others.

Tom: And so you'll have these several different stories unfolding simultaneously in a very seamless manner, with each revealing a little bit about one another in a complementary way.

Tom: That aspect of it is very enjoyable.

Tom: I think one area that I was pretty disappointed in the writing was the detail, because I was expecting, you know, all of these minor little things to alter how certain things were going to play out.

Tom: But even on a level, a basic level, where you would expect that to be the case, and in some areas that is the case, but many areas it isn't.

Tom: And this is probably the most egregious example.

Tom: In a lot of the dialogue trees, no matter which character you're using, whether you're using your avatar character or one of the companions, the dialogue options will actually be the same.

Tom: And I think that is a pretty big oversight, to say the least, because to the credit of the writing, the characters themselves are actually all very different.

Tom: And when they're interacting in a more detailed area that is more related to a specific character, they'll be true to their voice.

Tom: But then at the same time, you'll have these other interactions, some of which are related to the main story.

Tom: And it won't be about the character's voice.

Tom: It will just be this sort of generic voice that they've created for the avatar character instead, which I thought was pretty lazy and disappointing.

Tom: And I understand that to do this in what is a to -hour game is obviously a gargantuan task, to say the least.

Tom: But it is absolutely something that sticks out a bit like a sore thumb, particularly given that elsewhere they do go the extra mile in terms of that sort of detail.

Phil: Now, you're playing this on a pretty good PC gaming rig, I'm assuming?

Tom: Correct, yep.

Phil: So visually, I'm sure it looks fantastic.

Tom: It does.

Tom: I think one issue I have with the look, which we can also tie into the writing a little bit, is I think it's lacking a lot in terms of, I think, originality, both in a good way and a bad way, but also, I think, it's hard to articulate this exactly, but if I compare this to something like The Witcher in terms of the characters and storytelling, both aesthetically and in terms of the writing, with The Witcher, one of the best things about it, which puts it on another level to the majority of games and allowed me to put up with the, at times, horrendously annoying gameplay, is, I think the simplest way to put it is, everyone in Baldur's Gate no matter what the character is, looks like a protagonist film star, essentially.

Tom: And that applies to the environment design and the flaws of the characters and how the characters behave.

Tom: Everyone is this perfectly polished model who behaves perfectly, even if they're doing bad things, to what the expectations of a nice version of this character would be.

Tom: Whereas in The Witcher that's not the case at all.

Tom: The characters in that feel and look, to a degree at least, more so like real people.

Tom: And that's also to some degree a matter of taste because doing it this way in Baldur's Gate is, I suppose, better for escapism.

Tom: But I think the best examples of writing or art, if we're talking about the aesthetic qualities of Baldur's Gate if they want to be escapist, and The Witcher absolutely is, has a great escapist element to it, it should also be able to add, I think, a better element of depth to it as well, even if it's focused on escapism.

Phil: The name of the game I couldn't remember was Shadows of Mordor, and the reason why I bring that up is that there was a lot more digital diversity, if you will, in terms of the characters in that game.

Phil: I mean, there was not a pretty face in that entire game other than for, well, the guy you were playing, of course, as a player.

Tom: So it accurately represents the players.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah, it made me feel like I was the troll.

Tom: Made you feel like you were there.

Phil: Yeah, but this sort of thing, and it could not possibly be the first time we talk about it, is something that really does drive me nuts, even though I'm not particularly sensitive to this sort of stuff in media.

Phil: I just like to have people look more like regular people.

Phil: And, you know, do you want that in your fantasy RPG?

Phil: Probably not.

Phil: In your fantasy RPG, you probably want to look like, you want everyone to look like they've just, you know, conquered something or come in from some palace, I guess.

Phil: But I think it is a major crutch, a casting crutch, just to go, oh, well, this person's not important.

Phil: That's why they look a little bit funny and they're ugly and fat, you know.

Phil: Not to overplay that too much.

Phil: But we've talked a fair bit about the game.

Tom: I think that applies more so to the world of film, though.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I think if you're the one digitally creating the characters, you're making them to look a certain way as opposed to who you can afford to play them.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: But the problem is, at least it used to be the problem, that a lot of game developers were, you know, pervs.

Phil: And, you know, they'd make the Lara Crofts and the things like that.

Phil: And you know, you look at things like Soul Calibur and things like Dead or Alive, you know, where basically they'd create these fantasy toys that they could play with, right?

Phil: And I think if a game has the depth that you're talking about with Baldur's Gate that maybe it would have had more depth, or it undercuts the depth of the narrative and everything else if everyone you're talking to looks like a movie star, right?

Tom: Well, I'm saying everyone in Baldur's Gate does look like a movie star.

Phil: Yeah, and that's what I'm saying.

Phil: And that sort of undercuts the great work they've done in every other sphere of the game.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: You could say, well, it's a fantasy RPG, what do you want here?

Phil: And you go, well, yeah, but is it really credible that the troll I'm talking to looks like the Rock, or this witch looks like a famous actress name here?

Phil: So yeah, that's probably the closest thing I've heard of you in terms of a criticism for this game, that I've just put in your mouth.

Phil: Anything else for bubbles?

Tom: It's definitely a criticism because I think when we're...

Tom: And it's only a criticism that I bring up, given that the standard we're comparing it to is that it is meant to be the greatest RPG ever made and one of the greatest games ever made.

Tom: So that's the standard we're holding it to.

Tom: So when we're thinking about it in those terms, we've got to be considering, does the aesthetic stand up and the narrative stand up to something like The Witcher ?

Tom: And for me, I don't think it's quite there.

Tom: It is...

Tom: If we're not thinking about it in those terms, it's absolutely enjoyable.

Tom: The characters...

Tom: There's definitely some inconsistencies in how interesting they are and how well written they are compared to one another in terms of the main companions you have.

Tom: But the ones that are good take you on a rollicking and engrossing and very enjoyable journey.

Tom: I think the main plot could be a lot more interesting, but I think that's a fundamental issue with the genre itself.

Tom: I can't really think of, other than maybe Scepterra Core and The Witcher except the only reason it's an interesting main story in The Witcher is because of how poorly it is told, by which I mean the main story in The Witcher is actually not this massive epic quest.

Tom: It's this pretty short thing that has a large focus on the character drama between Geralt and characters he knows.

Tom: And for like two-thirds of the game, it's not there.

Tom: The actual story that's being told is focused on the main quest.

Tom: I think if you are trying to write an epic fantasy story that is going to last the length of these sorts of games, you're going to have to find an exceptionally talented fantasy novelist, and they're not going to write a fucking video game.

Tom: So I don't think that's going to happen.

Phil: Look, video games, movies, whatever you're talking about, the main story is never...

Phil: In movies, probably a little bit better, but when you're talking about fantasy games, there's never a grand story.

Phil: It's always what the player brings to it and molds their own story.

Tom: What it ends up becoming about is basically all the side stories that are recurring at the same time, that the main plot is basically an excuse to push you in the direction of.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: Yeah, so yeah, I wouldn't judge any of these games by their story.

Phil: The games where I do judge their story are games like The Last of Us, where they are in control of pretty much every single element of the story.

Phil: And it's like, OK, well, if you guys are driving, the destination better be good, and it better match what you've been promising the whole way, which was part of my problem with The Last of Us that we never talked about.

Phil: But yeah, like if you're steering, it better be a good destination.

Phil: But if you're giving us a toolbox to play in, main story, main plot doesn't really matter that much.

Tom: I would agree.

Tom: And one thing I appreciate about the aesthetic and the writing as well, I said it's a bit generic before, but that's also one of its strengths, because it's generic in the strength, in the sense that it is pulling from a lot of different influences.

Tom: And it does it in an interesting way, because they're not the sort of influences you'd necessarily see coming together.

Tom: The main antagonist of the game is essentially Cthulhu, but this is combined with characters that look like they're straight out of a fantasy anime, for example.

Tom: So it's the way it uses its influences creates an interesting collage that you don't find in, I think, many fantasy products, whether they're games or otherwise.

Tom: So that's something that I really appreciate about it as well.

Tom: And overall, I mean, I'm now getting, I think I'm probably around hours almost into it.

Tom: I'm still playing it.

Tom: So that says something for it at the very least.

Phil: Oh, big time.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Phil: I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Tom: And the one thing I would add as well, which I appreciate a lot, and I wish more RPGs in particular did this, this game absolutely is % in support of save scumming.

Tom: You can quick save wherever you want, including at any point in battle.

Tom: You can also quick save during conversations.

Tom: And for something that has so many different branching options and things that can occur, and also for something that has a random element to the combat in the sense that it's all based on dice rolls, I think that makes the experience a lot more enjoyable because you can then experiment with whatever you want in terms of seeing how any specific moment will play out.

Tom: And if you get five different shitty rolls in a row that should not be occurring, you can just reload and go back a few turns in a battle.

Phil: I would expect nothing less.

Phil: I mean, that's really a part of the genre.

Tom: A lot of RPGs do not support that, though.

Tom: Not to the same degree anyway.

Phil: Yeah, Western RPGs anyway.

Phil: But yeah, Western RPGs turn-based, I think so.

Phil: But yeah, I'll defer to you on that one.

Phil: Okay, well, any closing thoughts for Baldur's Gate ?

Tom: I think that's probably it for now.

Phil: Well, bringing endorsement, I'm just wondering what I could play it on.

Tom: Well, it's on all the current consoles, I think.

Tom: And PC.

Tom: And the PC download is only without patches, I think around gigabytes, so it shouldn't be a problem for you.

Phil: Yeah, no, that's no problem.

Phil: I'd just not be able to use the internet for two months, but hey, you know, that's the price you gotta pay.

Tom: You wouldn't be able to finish downloading Control.

Phil: Okay, well, thanks for that.

Phil: Before we get into questions for Tom, I was wondering if there's any of the games on my list that you're interested in, me giving you any sort of impressions?

Tom: I think the one that stands out the most for me is Paper Mario The Origami Killer.

Phil: Yes, Paper Mario The Origami Killer.

Phil: Now, I can't remember the actual name, if you can look that up for me, but this is obviously the most recent entry in the Paper Mario series.

Tom: I believe it is The Origami King.

Tom: I'm not as interested now.

Phil: Okay, that's fine.

Phil: There's a whole lot less surreptitiously taken video of famous Hollywood actresses snuck into the game.

Phil: So, as opposed to like Heavy Rain in all of his games, they're still around, I think, aren't they?

Phil: The makers of Heavy Rain.

Phil: They just didn't get picked up by Sony.

Phil: In any case, Quantic Dream, yeah.

Phil: Paper Mario, The Origami King.

Phil: So, I went into this game going, my god, this thing has been polished within an inch of its life.

Phil: It was so hold your handy sort of thing for the first like hour and a half.

Phil: But of course, you know, I've played all of the Paper Marios, right?

Phil: From the original None, which was inspired by the Square Enix game, Super Mario RPG, which come full circle has now been released before Christmas, and also had great commercial and critical success.

Phil: Super Mario RPG was my number one most favorite game for quite a long time.

Phil: And for the NES, Super NES rather.

Phil: And so when the Paper Mario series came along, I of course bought the Nversion immediately, and was obviously disappointed.

Phil: But then, you know, they did do some really great creative work with it, and it's a fantastic series, really.

Phil: Most people's favorite is the Thousand Year Door.

Phil: I'm probably a bigger fan of the original, but this Paper Mario, the Origami King for the Switch, turns out to be fantastic.

Phil: After you get through that initial handholdy thing, which for most people isn't going to apply, because it may be the first time you've ever played an RPG.

Phil: You know, this could be the entry point for a lot of people who have a Switch, who might be younger, who have never played a turn-based JRPG.

Phil: And it follows the turn-based JRPG model very closely, except in the boss battles, they're kind of timed puzzle-based battles where you have to really be creative in how you get through it.

Phil: I can see how some older players might find the battle system cumbersome, because it is like a puzzle as you're going through it.

Phil: You've got to change your tactics.

Phil: You've got to be really selective in terms of the items that you use and how many steps you move.

Phil: And ultimately, the dialogue in this...

Phil: This is a quick review, by the way.

Phil: The dialogue is also very clever and snappy.

Phil: It doesn't take itself too seriously at all.

Phil: It's constantly poking fun at the world of Mario and of JPGs as well.

Phil: And it was a fairly good length, too.

Phil: I think it was about -plus hours.

Phil: But what I really loved about it was the real-time battle system.

Phil: So even though it was turn-based, it was timed, so there was a timed element to it.

Phil: So yeah, overall, I have nothing but positive things to say about The Origami King.

Phil: I thought it was a fantastic entry in the series, and probably, if I'm being truthful, probably the best one in the series, when you take away, scrub away all the nostalgia.

Phil: But yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Tom: Is the combat similar to the Gamecube Paper Mario The Thousand Year Reich?

Phil: The Thousand Year Reich, no.

Phil: No, it's completely novel and different, and you really have to see a video of it.

Phil: I'd encourage people just to go on to YouTube and watch it for themselves.

Phil: Again, if it's not the only game that you're playing, and if you're older and you can't quite, you know, keep up with, oh, my God, what is this doing in my JRPG?

Phil: It might be a little bit off-putting, but it's actually very, very creative, and the battles are very creative as well.

Phil: So, you know, you'll go up against pencil cases, erasers.

Phil: It's all origami-themed, it's all craftwork-themed, not the band, but, you know, paper, folding paper and drawing and all that sort of thing.

Phil: And a fairly good sense of humor throughout the whole game.

Tom: My only issue with it is that your eras have made it seem a lot more interesting than the actual description of it, from the origami killer to a craftwork theme.

Tom: Ha ha ha!

Phil: With a craftwork with a K.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: We should probably end up our games impressions, even though you've got a lot of games on your list, but we can get to them next time, as do I.

Phil: I...

Phil: any...

Phil: Now, you know, we get a lot of questions about our trademark banner.

Phil: Now, you cannot listen to a podcast these days without them bringing up banter.

Tom: Something they undoubtedly got from us.

Phil: Yeah, well, the giant bomb splinter group that started a podcast actually referred to it in an episode as the other day as their trademark banter section.

Phil: Okay?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: So, look, it was only a one-off mention, but it was mentioned.

Phil: Then there's another podcast I listen to that goes out of their way to say, okay, now we're talking, you know, this is our banter section.

Phil: So I thought I'd give all the podcast world a little bit of a reverse from it.

Phil: But before we go into listener questions for Tom from other people's podcasts, anything happen to you lately that would make the listener think that you and I are friends and that we're real people that interact in a completely wholesome and natural way?

Tom: I'm not sure if there's anything that would make them think that we interact and are real friends.

Tom: That's more difficult, I think.

Tom: Real people, I'm not sure either, because the only thing I had related to this was an incident involving an insurance company in which I was the person who benefited financially from it rather than the insurance company, which sounds very unrealistic.

Phil: That's relatable, at least.

Phil: I mean, people hate insurance companies.

Phil: They're there to rip you off and steal from you, so it's fantastic that you got one over on them.

Phil: Are you sure you want to disclose this on the air, though?

Tom: Well, it's all perfectly legal.

Phil: No fraud is required.

Phil: As someone who has had a non-fault accident and haven't got my car repaired in six months while they wait for the parts to arrive from Korea, I'm very interested in hearing and someone getting over on an insurance company.

Tom: Well, I've got a Honda Integra, and I live in Richmond.

Tom: Now, if you know what a Honda Integra is, and...

Phil: No one told me there would be boasting.

Tom: It's only the GSI.

Tom: It's the non-VTEC version.

Phil: That's all right.

Phil: OK, so your classic car, yes?

Tom: Yep, my classic car.

Tom: In Richmond.

Tom: And if anyone knows where Richmond is in Melbourne...

Phil: It's a bunch of millionaires, people.

Tom: It is, but it's a bunch of millionaires and a bunch of council housing and probably the heroin capital of Melbourne.

Phil: Well, that's what the sign says, but, you know, it's been quite a few years.

Tom: That's what's there on the City of Melbourne's website.

Tom: Attracting tourists.

Phil: You know, the number one cocaine use per capita in the globe, since we're in trademark beta, we can do about whatever we want.

Phil: Here's Australia.

Phil: I don't even know how that works.

Tom: That explains why it's so expensive here.

Phil: Well, I guess.

Phil: Anyway, back to your tale.

Tom: So, I think heroin is probably cheaper than cocaine.

Tom: But the price of cocaine is what is encouraging all the Matthews.

Tom: But in any case, so Richmond, despite being a very expensive area now, which is a rather bizarre change over the past years, to say the least, there, if you can't walk down certain streets without seeing the road lined with glass from cars' windows being broken into.

Tom: And Honda's, Honda Integra's and Civics of this era are very popular cars to steal for two reasons.

Tom: One, they're very fun to go and enjoy rides in.

Tom: And two, there is a constant very high demand for any sorts of parts related to them.

Phil: Definitely, yeah.

Phil: Because they're the only cars from that era that are still going.

Phil: I had a Honda Civic.

Phil: It was a lot of fun to drive.

Phil: And I can completely understand why people would want to steal.

Phil: Well, stealing parts even back then was a thing.

Phil: When I was in California, for Civics, it was kind of like, yeah, you can get one.

Phil: But because they were always getting involved in crashes from races, street racing, and all the rest of it.

Phil: So it was like, if you had one, it was like, yeah, you're going to be having to secure it pretty well.

Phil: Don't tell me you're integral broken into.

Tom: Well, it got not only broken into, but someone attempted to steal it twice.

Tom: I went out there one day out the front, and is parked out front in front of the house.

Tom: And I should add additionally, our cousins while visiting once, their car was stolen out the front of our house at like between to p.m.

Phil: Well, I don't want to one up you, but I had a friend come and visit me in California once, and I used to live in the Slater Slums, which is not the name of the town, that's just what that area was called.

Phil: And when they went back to their car, it had bullet holes in the door.

Phil: Not because they were trying to shoot their way into the car, just because it was in the background.

Phil: It was just there while they were shooting someone else.

Phil: Again, not to one up you.

Phil: Is this the same cousins that you went over to play your video games at?

Tom: Correct, exactly.

Phil: Just to close the loop, just so everyone at home knows we were listening to.

Tom: The same cousins, the Mass Effect Fallout cousins.

Phil: And the Virtua Tennis Dreamcast cousins, possibly?

Tom: No.

Phil: Oh, bummer.

Tom: I think they had a demo of Virtua Tennis on PC, though.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, I remember you were recounting once that you loved playing Virtua Tennis with friends or whatever when it came out in the Dreamcast because of the ridiculous nature of the rallies.

Phil: And is the Australian Open this week, everyone?

Tom: It is indeed.

Tom: So I go out there, I open the door, and I see that the front seat has been pushed back.

Tom: There's some random...

Tom: the glovebox is open and random detritus around in the passenger seat.

Phil: So it was a tall seat.

Tom: And it takes me a few minutes to realize someone's tried to steal this.

Tom: And I thought they're probably trying to steal the car, given that they didn't break the windows, and given that they were relatively careful in attempting in breaking the locks.

Tom: They'd used a pair of scissors and not done too much damage to the paint.

Tom: And I assume they probably thought this being a car from the s, didn't have an immobilizer, because immobilizers were only mandated in the s in Australia.

Phil: I'm sorry, you lost me there.

Phil: What's an immobilizer?

Tom: An immobilizer means the car can't be hot-wired because it requires the key to be in the ignition for it to be able to start.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: But couldn't you put a screwdriver in there?

Phil: Or the key has to be all the way in?

Tom: In theory, it has to be the correct key.

Phil: All right.

Phil: The things you like.

Tom: So, before calling the police, because apparently you're meant to do this, I thought there's a reasonable chance that they're going to come back and try and steal it again.

Tom: So I disconnected the battery and also removed the fuses.

Tom: And so then I ring the police, and they say...

Phil: Have you disconnected the battery and removed the fuses?

Phil: Because we are not going to be there for a while.

Tom: And so after talking to the police and receiving phone numbers for emotional support from them and all this sort of thing, I was informed...

Tom: And you also can no longer call the local police station.

Tom: You've got to call this centralized call center for them to put you in touch with...

Tom: They then talk to, I presume, the local police station or who the hell knows.

Tom: They said, yes, they might send someone out within a few days to look for fingerprints and this sort of thing.

Tom: So they end up coming out the next morning, and it's poured with rain, nonetheless, just because I think they felt they needed to do something to be earning God knows what they were to come out and try and find a car thief based on no evidence they're going to find, dusted for fingerprints on this car that has just been through torrential rain, finding nothing, took very disinterestively pieces of the scissors and left.

Phil: Oh, the scissors were there.

Tom: They left the scissors behind.

Phil: I just thought it was your tremendous Sherlock Holmes ability to discern that they had to use scissors, not that the scissors were still there.

Phil: So I'm assuming they didn't dust them for prints.

Phil: Finally, we've nabbed them.

Tom: They dusted the windows and the door handles.

Phil: Wow, that is incredible.

Phil: That's incredible.

Tom: And they took some photos as well.

Phil: Well, you know, I mean, if you're going to dust a car, you got to take some photos.

Tom: All right, so the next day, I go out to the car again, because I've got to get all my stuff out of it for when the insurance company, Toe Truck, shows up.

Tom: And so I then see it's been broken into again, because now there's more damage on the other side.

Tom: So my forethought of removing the battery and the fuses paid off, because if you have a computer, you can connect it to the car's ECU and disable the immobilizer.

Phil: Okay, so the guy's carrying on a computer and they can do all this?

Tom: Yep, so they must have.

Tom: So I assume they were stealing it for parts rather than to joyride, hence why they came back with the relevant, most likely came back with the relevant paraphernalia to disable the immobilizer.

Phil: So this is some sort of ring.

Phil: This isn't just a junkie.

Tom: Though they were clearly interested in drugs because a friend of mine had at some point done some black magic with me where you melt welding wire into a shape and from this shape you discern a particular thing that you've been thinking is related to some problem you have.

Tom: And so I had this random foil thing in my car and I did notice that that was one of the things they stole.

Tom: So I assume they thought there might have been drugs in this little bit of foil.

Phil: You know, I've never consumed mushrooms, but I assume this conversation is pretty much where, you know, would go exactly like this.

Phil: Okay, so your friends made the foil thing and they took that.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Okay, yeah.

Tom: Like magic, not mushrooms.

Phil: So if Fast and Furious guide in, like if there was a side story movie about the people they stole the cars from, this is what we're listening to.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Now, a discerning person probably would have said, my car's been broken into, they're going to break into it again.

Phil: I will go through the efforts of removing all the fuses, which I think didn't need to go to that far, but you disconnected the battery.

Tom: I technically want to remove the battery fuse.

Phil: Oh, okay, okay, that's good, that's good, because you'd look like a crazy man if you took all the fuses out.

Phil: But you didn't then go, maybe I should take the valuable possessions out of the car, like the divining rod foil man I made that's predicting the future.

Phil: And was this foil man, was it predicting the future, or just telling you how you felt?

Tom: I think it was, if you've got a problem, this is related to Middle Eastern beliefs on superstitions, so it's in this case was figuring out who might have been giving her the evil eye.

Phil: Ah, so it is a defining type thing.

Phil: Okay, yeah, okay.

Phil: So you didn't think to remove these things from your car, though.

Phil: And so besides the defining foil man, what else was stolen from the car?

Tom: Well, there was essentially nothing of value in the car because...

Phil: That's not what you tell the insurance company.

Tom: Well, well, well.

Phil: We'll get to that in a moment.

Phil: We had a PlayStation had a briefcase full of money.

Tom: It turns out I probably should have committed a little insurance fraud here, as we'll get to in a moment.

Tom: But what was stolen was another friend's jacket, which I wanted to get rid of.

Tom: So that was a very foreshadowing theft.

Tom: I think the one thing that I really was annoyed about being stolen was the original rear badge, because I had removed the rear badge because it was not properly attached to the car, and I was storing it in the glove box.

Tom: So unfortunately, I can no longer say that I have both original badges on the car anymore.

Phil: Did you remove it because they made a mistake at the factory?

Phil: Like it wasn't put in the right place?

Tom: No, it was in the right place, but it was coming out because it's a -year-old car.

Tom: So I needed to add some epoxy resin or something to put it properly back in place.

Phil: While we're on this quick trademark banner thing before we get back to video game content, there's a video game, there's a car manufacturer called Havel or Great Wall, and they have these very affordable hatchback SUVs called Havels, H-A-V-A-L.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Are you familiar with these?

Tom: The Chinese ones, right?

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: They're made by Great Wall, right?

Phil: The H-A-V are equally spaced apart, but the space between the V and the next A is bigger, and then they go back to regular spacing between the A and the L.

Phil: Now, I know you're saying this is a waste of our listenership's time, and your time too, and probably mine.

Phil: But if you are stuck behind a Havel in future, you will notice that for whatever reason, they screwed up the spacing of the letters on the back of the car.

Phil: Honda would not do this, right?

Phil: There's no H-O-N space space D-A, and that's what they've done with the Havel.

Phil: H-A-V-A space space A-L.

Phil: It is, I'm stuck behind his car, I'm like moving my head around, I'm moving either side.

Phil: I tell my friend at work, I said, your daughter's got one of these Havel cars.

Phil: Can you, you know, go measure it with a tape?

Phil: And he comes back the next day, he's like, yeah, you're right.

Phil: There's like extra space between the V and the second A.

Phil: And I would like to get to the bottom of it.

Phil: I'd like to know if this is just sheer Chinese incompetence, or if there's something in the back door, like they got a sensor or something.

Phil: So they're like, just move the other A, you know, five mils that way, no one's going to notice.

Phil: Phil Fogg noticed.

Phil: Phil Fogg noticed.

Tom: What if it's a deliberate design choice?

Phil: But you see, you're saying the badge was in the wrong place.

Phil: And that just, you know, like in the case of the Havel, yeah, that was a factory screw up.

Phil: Not a year old car.

Tom: It's in the right place.

Tom: It was just falling out.

Phil: Okay, very good.

Phil: Okay, sorry, sorry, but you'll notice now, it'll drive you nuts.

Tom: I'll look out for it next time I see a Havel.

Tom: But so the only things of any sort of value that were stolen was a very cheap torch and a cheap car vacuum cleaner.

Tom: So eventually, several days later, I think maybe five days later, they finally tow the car and take it off.

Tom: And the logical thing to do would have, of course, been to park it off the property.

Tom: But our back gate was destroyed in the last big flood we had here.

Tom: And it was going to be a long process to get the insurance to cover it, which should have been an obvious slam dunk thing for them to do.

Tom: And we had a lot of stuff going on at the time, so we never got around to it.

Tom: So we had essentially no car access to the backyard.

Tom: Or we might have considered potentially not going to the insurance and just getting it repaired because the only damage that appeared to have occurred was to the ignition barrel and to the paint.

Tom: And it was just the paint around the...

Tom: where the key goes in the door handle that was damaged.

Tom: So it might have been, if you could be bothered doing that, $to repair that and maybe, you know, $or something for the ignition barrel.

Tom: So in theory, it should be very cheap repairs.

Tom: But it goes off to the insurance company.

Tom: And bearing mind, the real value of even these non-VTEC integrals that are in good condition, which mine is in, begins at like $

Tom: But all insurance companies, except for Shannon's, will only insure them for between $to around $

Phil: Personally, I think the market value on that is like way under.

Phil: A VTEC Integra in good condition, I mean...

Tom: The VTEC ones start at about $or $

Phil: That's what I was going to say.

Phil: I would say $$$depending on the condition.

Tom: But I think the non-VTEC ones at half that price is fair.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Tom: The truth is, they're not going to be...

Tom: The way I would think of it is there's no way a VTEC Integra is going to be, maybe unless it's a Type R, going to be twice as fun as a non-VTEC one.

Tom: But having VTEC is an important status thing.

Phil: It is, it is.

Phil: And if you're collecting, I mean, that's what you're going to want.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: So yeah, I'd buy that.

Tom: So I think half the sort of value is fair.

Tom: But so, that goes off to the insurance.

Tom: I don't hear anything from the insurance company for weeks.

Tom: The first thing I hear from them is that they have paid me for the stolen items in the car.

Tom: And so I go and check what they've given me.

Tom: And I'm surprised to see that they've given me...

Phil: $

Tom: What's that?

Phil: $?

Tom: I think it was more like something between $to $

Phil: Hey, see, look at me.

Tom: So I'm thinking, how the fuck is this the case?

Tom: And then I go and look at the receipts I sent them.

Tom: So I sent them the receipts, and in the emails, I said what was sold was this single vacuum cleaner, but there's a bunch of other stuff in the receipt, and this single torch, but there's a bunch of other stuff in this receipt.

Tom: And so they've just paid the total of the receipts, I suppose, to the stolen items.

Tom: So that's good, but I also discover through...

Tom: Go AI!

Tom: Through discovering this that they've written off the car.

Tom: So I ring them up, and bear in mind, if you've got a new car, if it gets written off, that's a big problem, because it destroys the value of the vehicle.

Phil: And they deregister it too.

Tom: If you've got an old car, it doesn't matter at all, because they don't deregister it, and it doesn't get put on a written off vehicle list.

Tom: So the only issue is getting the car back from the insurance.

Tom: So I ring them up, and I say, this is an absurd decision to write it off, given that the damage to the car that I could establish anyway is only a few hundred dollars, maybe.

Tom: It's not a few hundred dollars.

Tom: It's under a thousand dollars, and it's insured for, I think, it was, because the insurance amount had gone up since I originally insured it to the company's credit.

Tom: I think it went from to

Tom: So that's below their threshold of where they should be riding off a car.

Tom: As I say, what's going on?

Tom: And of course, the poor people in the Philippines don't know what's going on.

Tom: They've got to put me into touch with the people in Australia who do know what's going on.

Tom: And so I say, don't bother doing that.

Tom: Just put me straight through to who I need to talk to to open a formal dispute.

Tom: Because if you have something written off, you can open a formal dispute, so you may as well just skip ahead to that stage or you're just going to be talking to these people for God knows how long.

Tom: And to their credit, they were very helpful.

Tom: They immediately said, the way it works is you've got to talk to the assessor first and discuss it with them.

Tom: And they have the power to reverse their decision or change the details of it.

Tom: Because to give the car back to me, they want $in salvage.

Tom: So they're saying a car that they're valued at $as a working vehicle is worth $as a salvage vehicle.

Tom: I'm not sure that quite makes any sense.

Phil: Why would it?

Tom: So the next day, the assessor calls me, and I've got this page of arguments as to why this is ridiculous.

Tom: Because the one thing I forgot to say that the people in the Philippines did know was that they concluded there was $worth of repairs that needed to be done.

Tom: Because apparently the thieves had damaged the door mouldings.

Tom: They hadn't.

Tom: The car is years old, so the door mouldings look a bit crusty.

Tom: There was a long list of things that were just called, this car is years old.

Tom: Unless you're doing a show restoration, you're not doing any of this bullshit.

Tom: And it has nothing to do with the attempted theft either.

Tom: So to fully restore the car, which I think shows you, I got a very nice example.

Tom: To fully restore this car, it would only cost me $

Tom: So it was to my credit in finding this example of a Integra, that this was the insurance company's valuation.

Tom: It's like this long page of arguments, but the assessor, first thing he said on the phone was, this is a ridiculous situation.

Tom: It's listed as $salvage because the car is worth, you know, much, much more than what we valued at.

Tom: It's completely undervalued.

Tom: So I think it's fair, and I've talked to my manager about it, and he says we're happy to do this.

Tom: We'll give you the full payout, and we'll send the car back to you at no cost.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: So out of this, you have to take the, what I paid for that year's insurance, which was, I think, $and the excess, which was $

Tom: So minus $you take the payout, which was $you add that, let's just say, $for the stolen items, you've got $from the insurance company, and you've got, to get that, you've paid $

Tom: So it was a rare instance in profiting from an insurance company, which additionally was due to the insurance company's own duplicitous bullshit.

Phil: Well, congratulations.

Phil: I don't think there's anyone else who could tell that story or accomplish that.

Phil: You know, it just goes to show, if you can, how much money do they spend putting all these other barriers in front of you, talking to the person who can actually go, yeah, you're right.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: We'll just do the right thing.

Phil: Like if they just had more people in the front of the line, you could go, yeah, this is, I'm a human being, you're a human being.

Phil: Yep, yep, you caught us.

Phil: We're being unreasonable.

Tom: And how much do you think, by the way, that the repairs cost to replace the ignition barrel?

Phil: Look, what they cost and what they charge, I'm going to say you could possibly charge $

Phil: It probably cost half that, $

Tom: Well, I had to source the ignition barrel myself.

Tom: So we've got to include the labor and the price.

Tom: $is the total you're thinking.

Tom: The ignition barrel was, I got it for $with a badge as well.

Phil: Nailed it, as I said, $

Tom: So about $for the ignition barrel itself.

Tom: And I think the labor cost, it was between $to $

Phil: So I'm close.

Phil: I said $

Tom: Well done.

Phil: I should be on some sort of game show, man, as opposed to this show.

Phil: What's this show doing for me?

Phil: All right, we got to close things up.

Phil: So I've got just a couple of fun questions for you.

Phil: Now, I've listened to some podcasts.

Phil: Listeners have asked the host questions, and I have not been satisfied with the answers that were given.

Phil: So I'm going to ask you these questions and get your immediate responses.

Phil: So we'll do two of them.

Phil: Ben writes in and says, Nintendo delayed the release of Advance Wars Reboot for Switch due to the outbreak of hostilities in Ukraine.

Phil: How do you feel about game companies responding to real world events?

Phil: Does this seem like the correct response or an overreaction?

Phil: Tom?

Tom: I think it's neither the correct response nor an overreaction.

Tom: I think if they want to do that, they may as well.

Tom: The only question would be, what is the significance of the Ukrainian War as opposed to any other war that might be occurring at any particular time?

Phil: Right, like things going on in Sudan, for example.

Phil: Like, you know, there's been massive hostilities in Sudan.

Phil: Do you think Nintendo is going to delay Advance Wars because of a war in Sudan?

Phil: Probably not.

Tom: It might inspire them, if anything.

Phil: Yeah, it might terrible these more games like Advance Wars.

Phil: Excellent.

Phil: Next question.

Phil: Brock asks, What do you think the likelihood would be of Nintendo ever porting and releasing their games on Steam?

Phil: Porting old games like Mario and NES seems like it would be money for nothing.

Tom: I think the only way that might happen would be in some sort of package, like the Sega collections.

Tom: But even though they have branched out into releasing games on mobile platforms and tablets and that sort of thing, I don't see it happening soon.

Phil: No, and I would add, even as these are questions for you, I would think Nintendo would never do that because their back catalogue, they release through their online subscription service and there's value there.

Phil: They control it.

Phil: I think there's still a little bit of fear and intrepidation about releasing Nintendo properties on a PC where it could be, even though all of their products have been defiled and put on to every other system already, rather every other system, I mean pirated, you can play any Nintendo NES game there is.

Phil: So should they be getting money because the only other option is piracy to play the games on PC?

Phil: You know, that might be something.

Phil: I went to buy a CD for my daughter, right?

Phil: And because she's getting of the age where it's like, yeah, she should start to have her own music and listen to it in a room and listen to it in a room and all the rest of it.

Phil: The only option for a physical media for this particular Australian artist was to buy it from the UK.

Phil: It was going to cost me £plus another £to deliver it, so God knows what that is in earth money.

Phil: So I was like, OK, well, I'll just go on Amazon and buy the digital download and then I'll burn it to a CD because I don't want her having access to digital.

Phil: You know, I don't want her on the internet.

Phil: I don't want her streaming, right?

Phil: I want to have a CD, put a CD player and play it.

Phil: So I go to Amazon and I'm like, OK, yeah, I'd like to give you money.

Phil: Since I couldn't give the artist money by buying a CD, I'll give you money that you can give the artist so I can buy the MPso I can put it on my own CDR that I paid for and give it to my daughter.

Phil: And they're like, no, no, you can stream it.

Phil: We'll give it to you for free because you're part of Amazon Prime, but you can't download it.

Phil: You just go stream it.

Phil: So what are my options?

Phil: I go to YouTube, then I go to YouTube to mporg.China.whatever, right?

Phil: They put in the URL so I can actually download the mpso I can burn it to a disc.

Phil: How is this helping the artist?

Phil: How is this helping the artist that the only choice that I had to get their music if I didn't want to stream it, other than, you know, paying a bajillion UK dollars for something, is to basically go and pirate it.

Phil: Anyway, I'll give you one more question.

Tom: It doesn't help the artist, but it does help the streaming platform.

Phil: Helps the streaming platform, right.

Tom: I think it's the goal there.

Phil: Okay, so here's one for you, and this will be the last question, then we'll close it out if that's okay.

Phil: John writes, this is a big question.

Phil: The last two console generations seem to have lacked the big tentpole type big releases that everyone could be hyped for.

Phil: What do you attribute this to?

Phil: That's a tough one.

Phil: The last two console generations lacked the big tentpole type big releases.

Phil: What do you attribute to this?

Phil: So why are you thinking about that?

Phil: Like for me, I go, okay, well, the Xbox launched with Halo.

Phil: That wasn't a big tentpole type release.

Phil: No one was like, oh, yeah, Halo.

Phil: Let's go get Halo.

Phil: Then I think about the GameCube.

Phil: It launched with like Wave Race and Luigi's Mansion in a Star Wars game.

Phil: Like I can't think of any console.

Phil: Well, look, Dreamcast launching with Soul Calibur is probably the biggest game that I can think of, where it was a quality game that stood the test of time.

Tom: I think if we're looking out, let's look at the best-selling PSgames, for example.

Tom: So there's Marvel's Spider-Man Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, Alderaan, Final Fantasy XV and Demon's Souls.

Tom: What's the latest Xbox console called?

Phil: Xbox X and Xbox S series.

Phil: Or Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S.

Tom: So let's look at...

Tom: How can you even find that?

Phil: I know, it's idiocy.

Tom: I may have found one on Simply Games.

Tom: No, that's a shop.

Tom: That's their best-selling games on the shop.

Tom: I can find the Xbox One.

Phil: The biggest Xbox games are going to be like, you know, Fortnite, you know.

Phil: There haven't been any breakthrough titles on Xbox yet.

Tom: Xbox Series S best-selling games.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: So looking at them, we've got Avatar, Forza, Elden Ring, Madden, Infinite, Sonic, Borderlands, Cyberpunk.

Tom: What I think it is, I think it's that they are, I think those.

Phil: Right.

Tom: Ratchet and Clank sold million, Elden Ring .

Tom: The difference, if there is a difference, I think, and I don't know if it really applies, but it sort of does.

Tom: If you look at this list of games, we'll just do the PSone first.

Tom: What does this all consist of?

Tom: The only sort of new or newish idea here is Elden Ring.

Tom: And in terms of, no doubt, there are differences in the gameplay, but it's still, I think, a pretty similar sort of take on the whole Souls structure of things.

Tom: Maybe Final Fantasy is sort of a bit different.

Tom: I'm not sure.

Tom: But I think if there's a difference, there is a much bigger reliance on, I think, nostalgia in the bigger selling and most popular games and things that attract people to a console than there was in the past.

Tom: I think that's not to say that other consoles, their important games early on or later, were not franchises that already existed.

Tom: For instance, Zelda and Mario games.

Tom: But I think with those sorts of games, when they were being released in a new console, the attraction of them was seeing the same thing done in a new way.

Tom: Whereas that maybe applies a bit to Elden Ring.

Tom: But I think the attraction of something like Ratchet and Clank is, even though they're not a literal, just basic remake, it's very much we want to see this in the modern world as opposed to as a new game.

Tom: It's more about seeing it in with modern graphics and modern production values, as opposed to a new sort of take on it.

Tom: I think that's perhaps the big difference.

Phil: Yeah, and I think also too with Microsoft, they don't have the big sellers because they're selling their subscription service.

Phil: Okay, well with that, I think we can close out episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Thank you for joining us.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg.

Tom: I'm Tom Towers.

Phil: And see you next time.

Phil: As usual, we have great outros.

Phil: Fantastic.

Phil: What do Australians even say goodbye?

Phil: Toodle-oo?

Phil: Ta?

Phil: What do we say?

Tom: Ta-ta.

Phil: Hooroo?

Phil: Hooroo.

Phil: I think that's one of them.

Tom: That's what we say to the kangaroos when they're hopping past.

Phil: Yeah, hooroo.

Phil: Goodbye.

Tom: Bye.

Game Under Podcast 145

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

0:00:08 Introduction

0:00:50 Play Magazine's 100 Top Playstation Games

0:13:58 Tom's Top Five Games of All Time

0:22:03 Phil's Top Five Games of All Time (from 2009)

0:24:51 Bayonetta 3

0:33:00 Omori

0:45:00 Jeff Gerstmann giantbomb.gone

0:51:23 GTA 6

0:59:55 Wandersong

1:11:37 Oculus Quest 2

Transcript:
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I am joined as always by, you could potentially call me co-host if you're being generous, Phil Fogg.

Phil: Hey everybody, it's Phil Fogg.

Phil: Back from long COVID and super flu, I have been the reason why we have not been recording.

Phil: It's not on Tom, but it's good to be back.

Tom: It never is.

Tom: I'm a professional.

Tom: I think we have it on record that I did not let some pathetic virus stop us from recording.

Phil: No, no, but at least I got the fever with the super flu.

Phil: But my voice is now almost fully restored and I'm back.

Phil: And I remember in our last episode, we talked about Play Magazine, the Australian version of Play Magazine, which has been around in the UK forever.

Phil: And I gave it, how would you describe my critique of it?

Tom: I can't recall it.

Phil: It was pretty fair handed.

Tom: Not memorable, I would say, very forgettable critique.

Phil: Okay, well, I thought it was pretty good.

Phil: I mean, I thought it was pretty good.

Phil: I think the content was great and all the rest of it.

Phil: So I get the second, what do you say, episode, the second issue of the magazine, because it's the last magazine in Australia.

Phil: Like I went into a massive news agency magazine store the other day, and they basically had Retro Gamer and Play Australia, and that was it in the gaming category.

Phil: I know I complain about this every time, but it's, you know, obviously magazines are dead.

Phil: Now, I've just got to say though, my love for Play, or my, at least, you know, tolerance for Play has-

Phil: Hasn't subsided, they've just listed the greatest PlayStation games of all time.

Phil: And this is where I basically am like, okay, I'm not gonna, it's now gone from me subscribing to supporting a magazine to, okay, I'll pick this up if I'm interested in what's on the cover.

Tom: I just say, I see why I've forgotten your play impressions because you just said that your toleration for playing magazine has not yet subsided, very strong impressions.

Phil: Okay, so anyway, they've put out this top list, right?

Phil: So I'm not gonna go into lists, like I don't, lists are lists, but there are lists that are so bad where you've got to call into question the judgment of the person making the list to the point where I now can't, like, I can't read anything that you write because I can't trust you anymore.

Phil: Just pick a game, for example, Eko, right?

Phil: So Eko, you like that game?

Phil: Would you like to know where in the pantheon of the greatest PlayStation games of all time, Eko falls?

Phil: Like top bottom half?

Tom: I assume top five.

Phil: Top five, that's what, okay, that's a reasonable assumption.

Phil: I mean, it was a breakthrough game.

Phil: Yes, it is not on the top Tom.

Tom: Not on the top at all?

Phil: It is not on the top

Phil: If you'd like to know where it was pipped at the post, was Hotline Miami, which is not even a PlayStation exclusive.

Tom: Hotline Miami is a pretty good game, though.

Phil: It is a pretty good game.

Phil: Is it better than Eko?

Tom: No.

Phil: No, objectively.

Tom: But I would say, I would say that is one of the few games I would say is up there with it.

Tom: But I think Hotline Miami is more so, I think it has more games that it builds upon than Eko does.

Phil: Oh, yeah, definitely.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Phil: But still, I mean, Eko, how can Eko not be on the top ?

Phil: Like, even if they gave it...

Tom: Flabbergasting.

Phil: Flabbergasting.

Phil: Vanquish.

Phil: Where do you think Vanquish is?

Tom: I'm going to guess it's not on there.

Phil: Oh,

Phil: It is the th best game.

Phil: And it...

Tom: Well, I think it made my top five third-person shooters of all time.

Phil: Just to give you an idea, Crash Bandicoot Insane Trilogy, which is a re-release of the Crash Bandicoot, you know, it's Crash Bandicoot Collection

Tom: So they didn't even have the density to pick one of the original Crash Bandicoots.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: Yakuza was the only entry in here, starting with Yakuza, and it came in at number

Phil: We'll cut to the chase.

Phil: We'll just get down to, what do you want, the top five or top ?

Tom: Let's do the top

Phil: Okay, top starting at

Phil: Disco Elysium.

Tom: I'm yet to play it, but I have heard good things.

Phil: I've heard good things.

Tom: People do hold it in that level of esteem, pretty much.

Tom: I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Phil: I wouldn't disagree with that on the basis of what I've heard of it, and I do want to play it.

Phil: Again, not a PlayStation exclusive, you think for the top yeah.

Phil: Number nine, Red Dead Redemption which would not, which I played it to the end.

Phil: It's okay.

Phil: I don't think it would make my top

Tom: I think the original would be a better pick.

Phil: Definitely, yeah.

Phil: Oh, who knows?

Phil: It might be higher in the list.

Tom: I hope not.

Phil: The original Metal Gear Solid for PlayStation

Tom: I think that's acceptable.

Phil: Number eight, and I'm actually, I'm playing the original Metal Gear Solid.

Phil: I've got it like in a few different formats, and I'm actually playing it, the original game on the original hardware.

Phil: Number seven, God of War, the original.

Tom: No.

Tom: Just simply no.

Phil: No, I maybe consider one of the sequels in here, but not the original.

Tom: I wouldn't say top

Phil: Yeah, probably not either.

Tom: Top top I'd accept.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Shadow of the Colossus.

Phil: Okay, so this is the first where you go, okay, all right.

Phil: Well, Shadow of...

Tom: Well, I knew that was gonna be there when ECO wasn't.

Phil: Yeah, Shadow of the Colossus, number six, Final Fantasy number five.

Tom: Are they serious?

Tom: Final Fantasy

Phil: Final Fantasy

Phil: As the fifth best PlayStation game of all time.

Tom: So I assume the next five games are all gonna be Final Fantasies.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: I'll just give you their justification, not just notable for returning to the iconic setting of Evolus.

Phil: This ambitious JRPG also remembered for how much it switched up, and that innovation echoes through the series to this day.

Phil: Random encounters are out, replaced by always on screen enemies who will give chase if you draw their attention.

Tom: Yes, they turn it into an MMORPG without any other players.

Phil: Okay, well, now is serious, right?

Phil: I mean, these are the big four now.

Phil: Number four, the last of his part two.

Tom: The second one?

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Tom: Well, I can't comment on the second one, but...

Tom: I can.

Phil: I'm playing it right now.

Phil: But we'll save it.

Tom: As we're recording, no less.

Phil: Yeah, we'll save that for another day.

Phil: Number three, the Witcher

Tom: As the best PlayStation game?

Phil: As the third best experience you can have on a PlayStation.

Tom: I would question that.

Tom: Well, now it's been patched okay, but to begin with, it was not a very good experience on a PlayStation.

Tom: I'll just say that much.

Phil: No, not at all.

Phil: And also, you can play The Witcher on a pocket calculator if they still made pocket calculators.

Phil: You don't think Witcher I'd probably go, okay, well, PC.

Phil: I mean, that's the first...

Tom: If it's associated with a platform, it is only the PC.

Phil: Yeah, and you can play it on the Switch right now.

Phil: I mean, I own it for a couple of different formats.

Phil: It's a decent-ish game, but it hasn't really gripped me.

Phil: I can see myself playing.

Phil: Like, if it was the only game I had, I could see myself playing it for like hours or something.

Phil: Okay, so it leaves it down to number and

Phil: Do you want to guess?

Phil: Because, you know...

Tom: As I said, it must be Final Fantasy game.

Tom: So I'm going to go with Final Fantasy IX.

Phil: Okay, number is the worst Uncharted game released.

Phil: Uncharted A Thief's End.

Tom: Are you serious?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Uncharted

Phil: The worst one.

Phil: The worst one.

Tom: Oh my god.

Phil: Uncharted would not make my top video games, let alone...

Phil: It would make my top PlayStation.

Tom: It would make my possibly bottom games of all time.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And number we're not probably both going to have a lot of comment on because neither of us have played it.

Tom: It is a PlayStation.

Phil: It is a PlayStation exclusive.

Phil: And it is Bloodborne.

Tom: Interesting number choice.

Tom: I think I can accept that.

Tom: I can accept that.

Phil: I can accept it.

Phil: It is a PlayStation exclusive.

Phil: And I would have said, oh, recency bias.

Phil: But now that I look at it, it was released years ago.

Phil: Can you believe that?

Phil: It was released in

Phil: If someone had asked me when was Bloodborne released, I probably would have said years ago.

Phil: But that's, yeah.

Phil: So having gone through their top I'd love to be able to tell you, Overwatch is on here at

Phil: Assassin's Creed is number for crying out loud.

Phil: It's just a bad list.

Tom: Did they choose which games from which series at random?

Phil: No, I think they would have taken a game.

Phil: Well, I did read it, and basically they did cheat.

Phil: Wherever there was a collection, they used a collection for the most part.

Phil: And then if there was a game that they had in multiple games, they picked the one.

Phil: Like Yakuza is the one that they thought was the best out of the Yakuza.

Tom: But they thought Uncharted was the best Uncharted.

Phil: Yeah, incredibly.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Give them credit.

Phil: I mean, Life is Strange is on the list.

Phil: Again, not a PlayStation exclusive.

Tom: Not a great PlayStation exclusive.

Phil: Yeah,

Phil: Hitman at

Phil: So yeah, just there you go.

Phil: Play Australia magazine.

Phil: Poor list, but probably not.

Phil: And do I have anything else to say about that?

Phil: Like that does shoot their credibility down, right?

Tom: I am impressed by it.

Tom: I think they're trying to copy musical lists on the internet in magazines from Rolling Stone that pick things deliberately, controversially to get clicks.

Tom: But I don't think that works as well in an area like games.

Phil: Or magazines.

Phil: I've tried clicking on it.

Phil: It doesn't do anything.

Phil: I've already paid for it.

Tom: Well, all magazines that have any legitimacy are all online now anyway.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So why do you say clickbait list relating to video games wouldn't work?

Tom: Because I think in games, game fans are usually much more into creating their own lists, but not just creating their own lists, also discussing what games are good or not.

Tom: So what games are considered good and what games aren't considered good is much less not subjective, but much less disputed in games.

Tom: Whereas in music, you have music enthusiasts who will be infuriated and pissed off about these magazine lists, but the average music listener will read through it and not necessarily bat an eyelid.

Tom: Whereas in games, I don't think there's as much crossover in people reading websites between enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts.

Tom: And so just for example, in music enthusiasts, these days are probably not actually reading Rolling Stone.

Tom: But when they see Rolling Stone has said something positive about a group that they hate, they'll then pay attention to Rolling Stone.

Tom: Whereas the casual music listener may be already reading Rolling Stone.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, I haven't read Rolling Stone in probably years.

Phil: I'm going to be mailing you a copy of not this magazine, but the Gamer's Choice Awards magazine of the American magazine Electronic Gaming Monthly.

Tom: Excellent.

Phil: Featured the first shots of Gran Turismo

Phil: And so you can have a look at their own selection of their own list.

Tom: That's a game that should probably have been in the top in front of quite a few others.

Phil: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Phil: I mean, I don't even know where Gran Turismo is on any of these lists.

Phil: So in any case, I'll send this over to you and you can have that.

Phil: It is yours to keep.

Phil: Just as you sent me a copy of Hypermagazine from...

Phil: What year was it?

Phil: Some time ago, October

Phil: So this is a -year-old magazine that you've sent me.

Phil: And in revenge, I'm going to be sending you a -year-old gaming magazine.

Tom: You had to beat me.

Phil: Yep, absolutely.

Phil: Okay, so with that, do you want to get into your worst list or should we get into some of the news?

Tom: Well, we may as well get into my superior top five.

Phil: Yes, so you put together your own top five, this was last week or something, and I found it on the internet.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Do you want to just start from number five?

Tom: Yeah, I'll begin with number five, The Last Express.

Phil: The Last Express, that's a video game based on a movie with CGI Tom Hanks in it, if I'm not mistaken.

Tom: No, it does not feature CGI Tom Hanks, nor is it based on a movie.

Tom: It is a rotoscoped adventure game.

Phil: Oh, OK, because I have played The Last Express, which is the video game based on the Tom Hanks movie, on the PSP no less.

Phil: So you can just imagine how wonderful it was.

Tom: I don't think that's the same game.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: So The Last Express, when is that?

Phil: Is that a Jordan Mechner game?

Tom: That is indeed a Jordan Mechner game.

Phil: And was it any good?

Phil: Well, obviously, it's your fifth best game of all time.

Tom: It was not only good, it was the fifth best game of all time, I think you'll find.

Phil: Okay, anything else to say about The Last Express?

Tom: I think when you hear rotoscoped adventure game, you already know the quality and you don't need to say anything else.

Tom: But we do talk about things like The Last of Us with its innovative, amazing acting.

Tom: And I would argue that the acting in The Last Express is of a superior level of quality.

Phil: Well, Jordan Mechner did fancy himself as a scriptwriter, or a screenwriter.

Phil: Yeah, I read his autobiography.

Phil: It's not a bad read.

Phil: It's not a good read, but it's not a bad read.

Tom: How is it as a screenplay?

Phil: Terrible.

Phil: Absolutely terrible.

Tom: He didn't quite fulfill his ambitions then.

Tom: Number four is Daytona USA.

Phil: Okay, and is it like a walking sim through the streets of Florida?

Tom: It's a racing sim through the racetrack of Daytona.

Phil: Okay, you're talking about Daytona Sega's arcade game?

Tom: That's right.

Phil: That was also released on the Sega Saturn.

Phil: Yeah, and it's got that.

Tom: Dreamcast and PlayStation may even have made the top play games of all time.

Phil: I love NASCAR video games.

Phil: I played a game that I got at Walmart for like $one Sunday morning called Dirt to Daytona.

Phil: And it is a career sim and it is fantastic.

Phil: And I played one of the EA Daytona games on, I think the Thunder series on the PSP and it's fantastic.

Phil: And I just love it.

Phil: I just love the size, like the pack, you know, you've got other cars out there or whatever.

Phil: I love it.

Phil: I love every aspect of it.

Tom: And number is a Final Fantasy.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: It's not Final Fantasy though.

Phil: Final Fantasy

Tom: Final Fantasy

Phil: ?

Tom:

Phil: Really?

Phil: Really?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: On the original hardware PlayStation?

Tom: I played it on PC actually.

Phil: I've never successfully gotten very far out of the college tutorial component of it.

Phil: So you've obviously beaten it if it's your third best game.

Tom: The Final Fantasy XII and X are the only two Final Fantasies I've beaten actually.

Phil: See, I've beat one through seven and then got stalled at eight.

Phil: I've tried Final Fantasy X a few times.

Phil: I've tried Final Fantasy XV is probably the one that took the most, but I just don't have the time to play it.

Phil: But I actually kind of enjoyed Final Fantasy XV.

Phil: So, okay, so you really actually liked Final Fantasy VIII?

Tom: Yes, I did.

Tom: I think it's ahead of its time as well.

Tom: We've since then seen in the West, Western video game players taking up quirky Japanese school settings in games.

Tom: And I think this was probably the first instance of that being successful in the West.

Tom: So I think it was ahead of its time.

Phil: Like Danganronpa and Persona.

Phil: I don't know about the West.

Phil: I guess Life is Strange is the only one I can think of.

Tom: That's a classic anime game.

Phil: Number two.

Tom: Number two is Grim Fandango.

Phil: Okay, the LucasArts Tim Schafer game.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: I would say easily the best LucasArts adventure game.

Tom: And I would argue Tim Schafer's best work as well.

Phil: And that's the Day of the Dead themed game, right?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, that's not bad.

Phil: And of course, number one.

Tom: Is the game that did not even make the top at play, Eko.

Phil: It's easy to see why.

Phil: Journey did make the list, by the way.

Phil: Journey was on there like...

Phil: It wasn't in the top

Phil: Journey was on the top

Phil: But you like Journey and you like...

Phil: You know, that kind of setting.

Phil: So that's understandable.

Phil: It's a very thoughtful game.

Phil: It's a groundbreaking game, really.

Phil: Had no HUD, had no English subtitles.

Phil: You basically had to figure stuff out for yourself.

Tom: I think you could argue that essentially the entire indie model of the first wave of indie games was based on ICO.

Phil: You can almost imagine walking through the settings of ICO in first person and it looking a lot like Edith Finch.

Tom: But a lot better.

Phil: Yeah, a lot better.

Phil: And basically it took the puzzle adventure elements of Tomb Raider, but did it in a very artful way.

Phil: The animation was good, talking about rotoscoping with Jordan Mechner's work with Prince of Persia.

Phil: It was almost to that level of this is a breakthrough, the fluidity of the character models, the black smoke monsters, just captured your imagination.

Phil: I bet that still look great today.

Phil: And then it was also a very charming game in that you were leading this person by the hand.

Phil: When you wanted to save your game, you'd go and sit on a bench, which has since been adopted by so many other games.

Phil: And yeah, the ending post credits, I don't want to spoil it, but there's a scene on the beach that was really charming.

Phil: Really a fantastic game.

Phil: So all joking aside, this is a list that was from several years ago, I think about seven years ago.

Phil: Does it hold up for you?

Phil: Obviously there's some things that you would change today.

Tom: I wouldn't change anything today other than increase the resolution without destroying the lighting, which they did in the remake.

Tom: I have played it, I think, three or four times at various generations of game consoles.

Tom: So I would say it is timeless.

Phil: I didn't mean change ICO, I meant your top five.

Tom: Oh, no, I would not own my top five.

Tom: I stand by it.

Phil: Really?

Phil: Okay.

Phil: I've gone back to the same period, and this is from

Phil: So this is a list from

Phil: Okay, so it's a long time ago.

Phil: I'll give you my top five.

Phil: I actually put together a top

Phil: ICO is not on the top which if I was doing the list today, ICO would be on the top

Phil: So my top five are Super Mario Brothers for Nintendo, which is shocking to me that that's on my top five.

Tom: But my only question would be, have you played enough of it to genuinely put that on the list?

Phil: I've played several hundred hours of the first eight levels.

Phil: Number four, No More Heroes, and I think that was definitely recency bias because I don't think that would be in my top five anymore.

Tom: I do love that game, but I don't think it would make my top five either.

Phil: No, and you're going to just go for here.

Phil: Number three, God of War.

Phil: Now, but this is before the other God of Wars had come out.

Tom: But why would you pick God of War when things like Bayonetta and Devil May Cry exist, is my question.

Phil: Well, Bayonetta did not exist when this came out.

Tom: Okay, but Devil May Cry certainly did.

Phil: Yeah, you're right.

Phil: It would have.

Phil: Number two, again, recency bias, Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slime for the DS.

Phil: Which is hilarious, but this was a time when I was building my house and I didn't have access to...

Phil: I played like a thousand PSP games to completion and DS games.

Phil: So Rocket Slime is a fantastic game.

Tom: I can respect that.

Phil: Definitely in my top

Phil: It's a tower defense game and very charming.

Phil: Definitely in my top but not number two.

Phil: And my number one game, and I'm going to have to really think about this, I don't think it's a bad thing.

Phil: You probably do.

Phil: But my number one game is Resident Evil

Tom: I think that's an all right choice.

Tom: It's just a very boring one.

Phil: It is a very boring one, but I'm a very boring person.

Phil: Anyway, we've dabbled enough with our list.

Phil: And if you're happy to move on, I do...

Phil: speaking of Bayonetta...

Tom: Can I just point out here, the man with rocket slime, or whatever the fuck it's called, in his top five games of all time, called my list the worst top five game list of all time.

Phil: Don't judge it until you play Dragon Quest Heroes, okay?

Phil: It's definitely better than Final Fantasy

Tom: I question that.

Phil: Definitely.

Phil: You gotta try it.

Phil: And you know, it's probably stuck on the DS.

Phil: I doubt you can get it anywhere else.

Phil: But we were speaking about Bayonetta.

Phil: Speaking of Bayonetta, Bayonetta is coming out soon.

Phil: It's actually coming out.

Phil: So Platinum's game, which, you know, we thought, I thought for sure, it was probably never going to come out.

Phil: It would have been Metroid or whatever the newest Metroid is that hasn't been coming out.

Phil: It's coming out in October.

Phil: Are you getting it, first and foremost, on release date?

Tom: I might if I remember to.

Tom: I have to say I'm not particularly excited for it based on the trailers they've released for it thus far.

Phil: What about the trailers, don't you like?

Tom: The early ones, the gameplay looked perhaps a little bit more clunky than previous games in the series.

Tom: And the most recent trailer where that was maybe not so much the case, I think aesthetically, looked much more like Devil May Cry than Bayonetta.

Tom: It had really lost its unique panache and style, I thought.

Phil: Well, I think you're going to have to wait and hold judgement until it comes out.

Phil: I've got it pre-ordered and can't wait to play it.

Phil: I'm actually hopeful because I think that the long delay has meant that this is an important project for Nintendo because you've seen this before with various games where Nintendo will delay and delay and delay.

Phil: And for them to come out and go, yep, no, we're giving this the treatment.

Phil: It's coming out.

Phil: Our stamp of approval is on it.

Phil: I think that you'll probably be disappointed because of the expectations game.

Phil: But at the same time, Bayo had a lot to live up to, but because it was a generational leap, you kind of expected that it was going to be better, you know.

Phil: And I don't know, like, do you put Bayonetta over Bayonetta or...?

Tom: I would put them pretty similar levels.

Tom: I think there's an argument to be made that the combat in Bayonetta is better than but I really enjoyed the structure of

Phil: Yeah, I'm right with you.

Phil: I could not pick one above the other.

Phil: I'd probably go with

Phil: But on the Wii U, they came out with that tremendous box set where they re-released Bayonetta

Tom: And I should add, Bayonetta aesthetically was a huge disappointment compared to the original Bayonetta.

Tom: So it's a general direction that the series seems to be going in where it becomes less and less aesthetically interesting.

Tom: But I think Bayonetta while not as wonderful aesthetically as the original, still had very much its own style.

Tom: I think it's more disappointing for it to be going from its own thing that in games is very much a unique aesthetic, but isn't as original as Bayonetta

Tom: To something that is very much similar to another game series that is even in the same genre, is Bayonetta

Tom: It's not as unique as Bayonetta

Tom: It's not as unique as Bayonetta

Tom: I think it's a bigger disappointment for me than the direction Bayonetta went in aesthetically.

Phil: Yeah, look, I think if you, like I'm an idiot, but so I'd say that Bayonetta like to me had, because I went back and played the Devil May Cry series, the original ones on the PlayStation and Bayonetta to me had an aesthetic, I thought, that was closer, or at least not an aesthetic, but a mood and a theme that was closer to Devil May Cry.

Phil: And I thought that the second game did have a lighter aesthetic theme than the first.

Phil: Do you completely disagree with that, or?

Tom: I think the color palette was similar in one to some of the Devil May Crys.

Phil: That's what I'm looking at.

Tom: And I do think.

Tom: I do think that the actual...

Tom: And obviously it's all based on certain mythological motifs in both series, but I do think the level of depth and the originality of the designs and the originality of the designs in the original Bayonetta made it absolutely nothing like Devil May Cry whatsoever.

Phil: So as an imagination game, you've talked about what your concerns and fears are for Bayonetta

Phil: Do you have any hopes for this one?

Phil: What could they do with this?

Phil: Do you want to see them close out the series in a trilogy type thing?

Phil: From a story perspective, do you really care?

Phil: Or are you just more concerned?

Phil: Would you hope that maybe the mechanics were absolutely spot on?

Phil: What are you looking for for Bayonetta ?

Tom: I think I'd like a combination of the structure of two with the slightly more precise gameplay of the original.

Tom: But I do have to say, I wonder what my experience with it will be, because with the original, that was basically my introduction to beginning to take a beat-em-up more seriously and playing one that had a greater degree of depth to it more seriously, but not really succeeding at that particularly well.

Tom: Then the second was succeeding on what I'd begun to do in the original.

Tom: I think at the moment with my piano playing, the odds of me putting in the time and effort into Bayonetta to play it properly is very, very unlikely.

Tom: So I will be, I think, taking it from a completely new perspective.

Tom: So I'm going into it without any sort of gameplay expectations, I would say, because I don't know how I will be playing it when I play it.

Phil: Yeah, well, that's fair.

Phil: I mean, and you know, this genre is like, well, this franchise is like Yakuza for me, you know, where it's kind of like, I know I can't play this the way I want to, but I'm just going to go and experience it, you know, and still enjoy it, but in a way that's different from, you know, maybe how I've enjoyed the series in the past.

Phil: Looking at their development, you know, they've kind of, I mean, Nier Automata came out in then they didn't do anything for two years until they did Astral Chain on the Switch, which I don't even remember.

Phil: A remaster of Wonderful a mobile game, Soul Cresta, has come out in

Phil: And the other games they're coming out for is Babylon's for Square Enix this year, and Bayonetta

Phil: So, you know, it's an interesting thing because like from to they were just banging out games.

Phil: And now it's obviously slowed.

Phil: I think you've got COVID.

Phil: You've got the complexity of developing AAA games now.

Phil: I guess this is a AAA game or a big budget game, we'll say.

Phil: So I just don't know.

Phil: I just hope that the talent that was there for games that I loved from Platinum, like Vanquish and Bayonetta and Transformers Devastation, and for you, the wonderful I just hope that that talent is still there.

Phil: Obviously, Shinji Mikami is still there and Hideki Kamiya, but you've just got to have...

Phil: And that, I guess, is what gives me hopes for Bayonetta

Phil: A game we don't have to wait to find out whether it's good or not is Omori.

Phil: Now, this is O-M-O-R-I, not Amori, but Omori.

Phil: Is it a Japanese game or a Japanese theme or what's going on with it?

Tom: I think it's American, but inspired by JRPGs.

Phil: Okay, and this is available on pretty much everything, Mac, Windows, Switch, Xbox, PlayStation.

Phil: And what sort of game is it?

Tom: Well, it is basically an RPG maker style JRPG, but American made JRPG.

Tom: And the interesting hook that it has is the combat system is based on emotions.

Tom: So there's angry, there is sad, and there is happy.

Tom: And happy is stronger than sad.

Tom: Angry is, sorry, happy is stronger than angry.

Tom: Angry is stronger than sad and sad is stronger than happy.

Phil: Okay, so it's like rock, paper, scissors, type, rush them on or whatever they call it, right?

Tom: Yep, exactly.

Phil: Okay, so happy is better than?

Tom: Happy is better than angry.

Phil: Happy beats angry, but angry beats sad.

Phil: And sad beats happy.

Phil: So sad is a winner, right?

Tom: No, because sad is weak to angry.

Phil: Oh, that's terrible.

Phil: So if someone's sad and then someone angry comes along, the sad person has to lose?

Tom: That's right.

Phil: So where's happy?

Phil: Like, what's happy versus angry?

Tom: Well, happy is weak to sad, and happy is strong against angry.

Phil: Well, I would, okay, I would disagree.

Phil: I mean, happy beats angry any day, because someone can be angry and you just laugh it off.

Tom: Well, that's what it does.

Tom: It does beat angry.

Phil: But I don't think sad, yeah, happy beats angry.

Phil: That's good.

Phil: But I don't think sad beats happy.

Tom: That's because you're a sociopath.

Tom: So when there are people sad around you, you're just as happy as you were to begin with.

Phil: Okay, so if a happy person and a sad person get into a fight, who wins?

Tom: If a happy person and a sad person get into a fight, then the sad person will win.

Phil: Okay, yeah, no, that plays out.

Phil: Yep, okay.

Phil: That's fine.

Phil: I'm good with it.

Phil: Okay, so you said it's an RPG.

Tom: So it's past your psychological analysis.

Phil: Yes, it has now.

Phil: So RPG, I'm glad that, you know, the developers of this game that poured hundreds of their hours of their lives into it have met my rigorous scrutiny of just finding out about their concept.

Phil: So you said it was an RPG maker.

Phil: So RPG maker, my history of RPG maker, was a game on the PlayStation and then the PlayStation where you basically, you know, did a JRPG.

Phil: So you can, is this a game about making JRPGs or is it an actual JRPG or?

Tom: It's not about making JRPGs.

Tom: No, it is a JRPG.

Tom: I will add on the different status, different emotions.

Tom: They also come with different status effects.

Tom: So happy has an increasing light and speed, but a decrease in hit rate.

Tom: Angry has better attack, but worse defense.

Tom: And sad has better defense, but worse speed.

Tom: And I think you take more damage as well, if I remember correctly.

Phil: So what's happy good at?

Tom: Happy is fast and lucky, but inaccurate.

Phil: Yeah, fair enough.

Phil: That plays out as well.

Phil: And I guess the confusion is, this is built on the RPG Maker engine, which has gone on to...

Phil: gone on to, yeah, okay.

Phil: So it's not an RPG Maker, it's just on that engine.

Tom: That's right, yes.

Phil: Okay, and it's been well received by the look of it.

Phil: So what's the setup for it?

Tom: Well, the setup is about halfway through, and this will contain minor spoilers, I suppose.

Tom: It's basically taking place in two different worlds.

Tom: What I presume is the real world, and what I assume is either the characters in the real world's memory of the past or a fantasy version of the world in which they're currently inhabiting.

Tom: So the real world, you're walking around a standard American sort of suburban environment with houses, a shopping, a central shopping center area with various shops and a park.

Tom: In the dream time or memory, sorry, fantasy or memory area, you're going through a combination of science fiction and fantasy settings.

Tom: And the main character's name is different in the two, between the two, but other characters' names are the same.

Tom: And in the other world area, you're going on various adventures in a classic RPG sort of style.

Tom: In the real world thing, the gameplay is still in the vein of an RPG, although there are less battles.

Tom: There are no random battles.

Tom: There are only main story boss battles, essentially.

Tom: And you are discovering there, I would say, what is really going on.

Tom: And there are a lot of psychological horror elements that kind of tie the transition between the two worlds together.

Phil: Looking at screens of this game, I can see why it's been compared to Earthbound.

Phil: It looks like a Super Nintendo, well, it looks like Earthbound, basically, in the traversal sections.

Phil: Would you, does it change up from that?

Phil: Does it have, like, cutscenes or anything like that?

Tom: It has cutscenes that are just a series of pictures, essentially, from what I can recall.

Tom: And there are various instances where you can look at mirrors or come across drawings and things like that, where you have a slightly more complex art style than when you're exploring the world, all the battle screens.

Tom: But it is, it is, I haven't played Earthbound or Mother, but it is clearly very inspired by them.

Tom: Well, as I said, it does have many psychological horror elements.

Tom: It's got a strong sense of humor throughout it, and in the real world areas, the focus is very much on interacting with quirky characters, which is the case in the other world areas as well, but there is combat there in addition to that.

Tom: I think the sense of humor in it is extremely good, and it fits the darkness of the...

Tom: I'm sorry, the humor is dark at times as well.

Tom: You are often...

Tom: that one enemy type, for example, are these creatures called sprout moles, and when you first encounter them, you're just going around slaughtering them en masse as if they're mindless creatures.

Tom: As you continue to interact with them gradually more and more, you get to learn more about them and end up exploring one of their cities as well and discover them to be more complex and interesting creatures that they might have first appeared.

Tom: But the amusing thing about it is that this is not addressed like it is in something like...

Tom: What was the RPG Undertale?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: This isn't a major theme of the game.

Tom: Unlike in Undertale, this is just there, which I think adds greatly to the humor of it and makes it very amusing.

Tom: So it is definitely inspired by Earthbound without question.

Phil: It seems also to have been made by a very small team with an auto-director being the artist, Omocat.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So that's got to be good.

Phil: Now, one of the good things about Undertale and Earthbound for that matter was the music.

Phil: Good music?

Tom: Yep, excellent music.

Tom: Very strong synths and quite a lot of variety as well, actually.

Phil: And what did you play this on?

Tom: I'm playing it on PC via Game Pass.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: So, yeah, okay.

Phil: Because it did originally come out a couple of years ago, but it just released on all the new consoles.

Phil: So Switch, Xbox One and PlayStation and all that sort of thing.

Phil: Yeah, that new PlayStation console.

Phil: Well, fantastic.

Phil: I mean, it sounds good.

Phil: Is there anything else to say about that?

Tom: Probably not until I finish it or get a little bit further into it.

Tom: But I would say for me, the start was very slow and not particularly interesting, but I persevered with it because the music was so enjoyable and the art style was quite pleasant.

Tom: And I think after the start, which is predominantly the psychological horror elements, but without really any context, once you start getting into the humour and once you start exploring the real world as well, I think it's worth sitting through the less interesting beginning.

Phil: Yeah, you know, I played Undertale.

Phil: Earthbound I have not played to completion.

Phil: It's a bit clunky and a bit old, even though I did play it very close to when it came out.

Phil: It's just not.

Phil: I have revisited several times trying to replay it and just not hitting me.

Phil: Undertale, I completely loved and played through, I think, in two sittings.

Phil: And it subsequently built up a following, and now it's cool to not like Undertale or whatever.

Phil: But I thought it was a fantastic game with some fun elements.

Phil: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it.

Phil: But in any case, it's apparently popular to hate on it now.

Tom: One thing I'd add is I think another similarity it has to Undertale is there is a very passionate fan base behind this.

Tom: And I think for me getting into this with having heard that it had a cult following, but not being exposed to it, unlike with Undertale, what makes for I think a, I wouldn't say better experience, but a completely different experience.

Tom: I think there's value to be had both in being exposed to a rabid fan base and going into a game from a much more critical perspective and actually living up to the hype in many ways to just hearing that something is meant to have something substantial behind it, but having no idea why at all.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I prefer to go in cold with things.

Phil: And it's sad to me that like apparently Rick and Morty is a similar type of thing where apparently it's got a rabid fan base that turns people off of the actual content.

Phil: I don't go on Reddit.

Phil: I don't seek out any of this stuff.

Phil: I just watch it and I enjoy it and I love it.

Phil: You know, whatever.

Phil: You know, judge me if it's a bad thing to like Rick and Morty, then I guess it's a bad thing to like Rick and Morty.

Phil: I don't really care what other people think.

Phil: I think it's hilarious.

Phil: So speaking of things that are hilarious, I'm not sure if you've heard.

Phil: Had you heard that Jeff Gerstmann is no longer with the company that he co-founded, giantbomb.com?

Tom: I had, and I was confused because I thought he had already left.

Phil: No, so he and Ryan Davis started it, of course, when they broke away from GameSpot.

Phil: And then GameSpot CBS actually bought them back.

Phil: And then after that, CBS got rid of a lot of its web properties, including CNET, which is a massive site, and GameSpot as a part of that giant bomb.

Phil: So they sold it to a company called Red Ventures, which is an investment group.

Phil: He'd been with them for about a year.

Phil: Basically, you know, there's a question.

Phil: Well, he's now got his own podcast, which he's doing by himself.

Phil: And at this point, I'm going to insert a clip from Danny O'Dwyer.

Danny O'Dwyer: Jeff isn't the most social person you'll work with.

Danny O'Dwyer: He commutes to and from Petaluma every day, a -mile drive during Bay Area rush hour.

Danny O'Dwyer: Perhaps it's why he doesn't socialize much after work, or maybe it's a convenient excuse to not have to.

Danny O'Dwyer: At his desk, he sits with headphones on, usually working on something.

Danny O'Dwyer: When he talks to you, he speaks openly and honestly.

Danny O'Dwyer: When he doesn't want to talk, he doesn't.

Phil: That was from his documentary about Jeff Gerstmann a few years ago, which you might remember I did a perfect impersonation of, where basically they said, Jeff Gerstmann, yeah, okay, yeah, he's this guy, but he doesn't really get along with anyone and people don't really get along with him in terms of his work at his workplace.

Tom: It was a classic, classic clip.

Phil: Yeah, it was fantastic.

Tom: And if we could insert a video clip as well, I think my favorite, just to go off on a slightly different note, I think my favorite Jeff Gerstmann memory from Giant Bomb, having never listened to an episode of Giant Bomb, was a short clip of Jeff Gerstmann sitting on a sill and falling off it in the background of a video.

Phil: I haven't seen that.

Phil: But look, hey, Jeff Gerstmann, like he's a similar age to me, similar background in terms of, you know, video gaming at least.

Phil: And so like, he wasn't on, basically how I found out, I downloaded the Giant Bomb cast, and it was all the other people who I really don't care about.

Phil: And Jeff wasn't on there.

Phil: And I was like, oh, well, I won't listen to this, because it's just grown to kind of like not like any of the people that are on Giant Bomb.

Phil: But I kind of listen in there just because it's interesting to hear what, you know, Jeff talk about how much he hates video games, because he apparently doesn't like video games very much.

Phil: Of course, he loves them, but you know, at least that's what he says.

Phil: And then the second episode, they come on and he's also not on.

Phil: And they don't mention him.

Phil: I'm like, well, that's weird, because usually if someone's not on, they'll say, oh, well, you know, Phil Fogg's on assignment, you know.

Phil: They didn't say anything.

Phil: Oh, that's weird.

Phil: So I just basically just went to Wikipedia and put in Jeff Gerstmann's name.

Phil: It's like Jeff Gerstmann was with Giant bomb.com from such and such to today's date.

Phil: I'm like, what?

Phil: So they never said anything about him leading.

Phil: So on the third show, they're basically like, yeah, the only person that had a personal connection to him said basically, Jeff's not here anymore.

Phil: And then they introduced like three new hosts, including Dan Reichert, who was, you know, probably in personality, the closest one to, you know, to Jeff.

Phil: And so and then the other thing is, is like, when Jeff was setting up his new podcast and his new website, he was actually on Twitch, not on Twitch, on Discord, like doing all this, like in real time, like, hey, guys, yeah, so I'm out on my own now and this is what I'm doing and he's like setting up the podcast, like getting the URLs and all the rest of it.

Phil: So it didn't seem to be on his part planned.

Phil: But on the other side of things, they had all these hirings lined up, which to me means that he was pushed.

Tom: Maybe he was pushed off that seal as well.

Phil: Maybe.

Phil: Usually if there's an ownership, you know, person, they'll have a contract that says you got to stay on for months and then there's a non-compete.

Phil: And, you know, he didn't stay on for like a full months.

Phil: Obviously, there's no non-compete because he's gone out and set up his own Patreon and everything.

Phil: He's doing quite well with the Patreon.

Phil: I didn't check on it, but I think, you know, he was making it.

Phil: When I first checked on it like a couple of days later, he was making like $a month.

Phil: He's probably gone way beyond that now.

Tom: I'll be $now.

Phil: Yeah, probably.

Phil: And it's probably something he should have done years and years ago because he wasn't really happy.

Phil: There was this person, Jeff Bacalar, that sort of edged his way in from the CNET side of things and made himself or was promoted to the person in charge of game content at Red Ventures.

Phil: And he's still on the site, you know, and Jeff isn't.

Phil: So in any way, it doesn't really matter.

Phil: His new podcast is a solo podcast, which is right up his alley.

Phil: And it's a long form podcast, so it's usually like two to three hours long.

Phil: But just listening to one person drone on and on like our listeners are now, you know, you just can't do it.

Phil: So I listen to it at like times because after a while you just stop listening because there's no other voice.

Tom: I've calculated the minimum amount he is now making on Patreon, which is $US dollars.

Phil: A month?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Clearly he should have done this years ago.

Phil: That's outstanding.

Phil: Good for him.

Tom: At The Game Under Podcast, we on the other hand have no Patreon.

Tom: We are not going to sell out.

Tom: We will remain authentic.

Phil: No, and I can do ads for shaving your balls and dick pills until we get an offer.

Tom: Remember to take your dick pills before shaving your balls.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Well, again, you're giving away the milk for free here, Tom.

Phil: Probably more relevant news.

Phil: I'm not sure if you've caught up with the Gta scuttlebutt from Bloomberg News.

Tom: I'm familiar with a little bit of it.

Phil: Basically, what Bloomberg has come out and said, and I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be FUD, is that Gta is going to be based in Miami.

Phil: They're going to do Miami for starters, and then it's going to dip down into South America, and they're going to add other cities as they go as DLC, either payable or free.

Phil: And basically, it's got a male and a female protagonist.

Phil: You can play for a female as a first time.

Phil: They're bank robbers, a male and a female bank robber.

Phil: And that's basically it.

Phil: I mean, that's the news on Gta

Phil: I'm not particularly...

Phil: I don't really care one way or the other.

Phil: Did you enjoy Grand Theft Auto V, the campaign?

Tom: I thought it was hugely disappointing.

Tom: I think, if I remember correctly, my favorite part was the rock textures.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: That might mean that I was not too impressed by it.

Tom: I think the problem with GTA V, which would appear to be the problem with GTA VI as well, is all of the other Grand Theft Autos either had some amusing, satirical content in them.

Tom: Even Grand Theft Auto IV I would apply this to.

Tom: Or they were in a setting or time period that the people making the game were passionate about.

Tom: Whereas that was not really the case with Grand Theft Auto V at all.

Phil: No, it was just set in the current real world, really.

Phil: And I can only imagine that GTA VI will be as well.

Phil: Well, let's look at this just real quick.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto III set in Liberty City, that was set in a contemporary time.

Phil: I mean, that was set in the period that the game was released.

Phil: It was in the late s.

Phil: And I'd say that Grand Theft Auto III takes place in the late s.

Tom: But I think Grand Theft Auto III was very much focused on being a attempted writing a mafia story slash parody.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, they were ripping off a couple of different famous movies, which they always do, which is fine.

Phil: And Grand Theft Auto III had the other two iterations, which is Vice City, which went down the s down in Miami, which was a Scarface type, Miami Vice type thing.

Phil: And then Grand Theft Auto III went, did it go back to contemporary time, or do you think it would have been set?

Phil: It was set after Grand Theft Auto III because Claude, the main protagonist in Grand Theft Auto III, makes an appearance.

Phil: So I think Grand Theft Auto Vice City is the only one that reverted to an earlier time.

Tom: San Andreas.

Phil: Yeah, San Andreas, I think was, it had to have taken place in that same era, the early s.

Tom: San Andreas definitely was meant to take place in the s, I believe.

Phil: So maybe Grand Theft Auto III and San, San Andreas happens in its chronology after Grand Theft Auto III.

Phil: So I'm going to say Grand Theft Auto III probably occurs in, let's say,

Tom: I'm sure Grand Theft Auto III must occur after San Andreas.

Phil: Well, they make reference to Claude in the past tense.

Phil: So Claude was the playable character in Grand Theft Auto III.

Phil: There's a scene in San Andreas in Fresno or in Central California where they make a reference to Claude in the past tense.

Phil: That, you know, he's all right.

Phil: He's from Liberty City.

Phil: Now, I would agree with you that if you were to just look at it, look at the evidence, not the storyline, that San Andreas appears to be taking place in, I would say,

Phil: Something like that?

Phil: Yeah, it was something like that.

Phil: And then Grand Theft Auto IV with Nico, that took place at, I think, the same time as it came out, like mid s.

Tom: I would say so.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And then Grand Theft Auto V came out pretty much, I mean, because they were talking about Facebook and social media and all that sort of thing.

Phil: I think it pretty much came out when it came out too, which is almost years ago.

Phil: I agree.

Phil: The only time they've really gone off timeline would be with Vice City.

Tom: I think we have to assume that they did with San Andreas.

Phil: And San Andreas.

Tom: I think if we want something to not make sense, we should go with the story rather than everything, literally everything else.

Phil: All the evidence, right?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: I don't know why this is such an important point.

Tom: Because it's a video game podcast.

Phil: Yeah, I guess.

Phil: So with Grand Theft Auto I mean, I mean, it's, it's, if come out and say it has a campaign mode and the campaign mode or story mode is, you know, hours long, hours long, I'm there day one.

Phil: If they come out and say it's an experience, it's a life game, blah, blah, blah, you know, eight hour campaign experience.

Phil: And I'm, I'm definitely not, not into it, but it is interesting all the same.

Phil: And I've enjoyed all of the games on the PSP, all of the, you know, Gay Tony and Lost in the Damned, obviously my favorite.

Tom: I think I wouldn't be against it if it is a high quality eight hour experience because Grand Theft Auto V basically consisted of several low quality hour campaigns.

Phil: Yeah, and we've agreed on that before.

Phil: I think it was basically like three DLCs, basically.

Phil: Like, you know, they did Grand Theft Auto IV with Niko, and then you had the brilliant DLCs for Lost in the Damned and Gay Tony.

Phil: If you basically took those three games and put them together, well, Grand Theft Auto IV has obviously got a lot more depth and length than those DLCs, but yeah, I get what you're saying.

Tom: Now, when we talk about Bloomberg, we're referring to Bloomberg, the mainly business focused news source, right?

Phil: No, no, I'm talking about Michael Bloomberg, the presidential guy who ran for president.

Phil: He's an avid Gta fan.

Phil: He's got his own fan site.

Phil: I think it's called bloomberg.com.

Tom: I think it's mikebloomberg.com.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: And no, he just, you know, even though he's like, you know, in his late s, he's really into this.

Phil: Probably a leading reporter on this.

Tom: Well, I'm relieved that it is Mike Bloomberg because it leads, gives some credence to my theory and hope for the only way they can make Grand Theft Auto interesting, because we know it's set in Miami, and we also know it's set in South America.

Tom: Now, I'm going to assume that this is Mike Bloomberg, an American politician.

Tom: So he believes Cuba is in South America, and that the setting for the game is going to be Miami and Cuba with the theme being the Bay of Pigs invasion, which I think would be right in Rockstar of Olds Wheelhouse.

Phil: Okay, okay, okay.

Phil: What about Rockstar of Olds Wheelhouse?

Phil: Oh, that's the other thing.

Phil: They said they're not going to be punching down with their humor anymore, which I hope means they're not going to be making fun of people with Southern accents that show at Walmart.

Tom: Well, that's the thing.

Tom: That's what is not punching down.

Tom: What is the pole opposite of not punching down than a theme based on The Bay of Pigs, one of the most comical punching up moments in history?

Phil: Definitely.

Tom: I think I'm on to something here.

Phil: I think I'm on to something because if you take it into Cuba, I mean, wouldn't it be in Rox Giles' theme to have you get to Gitmo?

Tom: We fast forward to Gitmo.

Tom: It can span decades.

Tom: We're not just going to get cities as DLC.

Tom: We're going to get different political eras.

Tom: I'm now excited for Gta

Tom: Before we had this discussion, I couldn't have cared less, but now I am hyped with high expectations.

Tom: I think I'm anticipating this more than I am Bayonetta

Phil: I think they're going to have a scene where you break into Gitmo and meet the three guys that are still there.

Phil: Hey, just before we get too far into the news, I did want to tell you about a game that I've been playing.

Phil: I've been playing a ton of games just for our listeners' benefit.

Phil: I've been playing Paper Mario, Kirby, Need for Speed on the Switch, which isn't bad.

Phil: I've got to say it's actually quite good.

Phil: Dragon's Dogma, Luigi Mansion Last of Us Part

Phil: So I also played Wonder Song as well.

Phil: Or Wonder Song.

Phil: Wonder Song.

Phil: Wonder Song?

Tom: Wonder Song.

Tom: I think it's Wonder.

Phil: Wonder.

Phil: Yeah, W-A-N-D-E-R.

Tom: Yeah, as in wandering.

Phil: Yeah, wandering.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: But did you want to basically dip into Wonder Song?

Phil: And you've been, you've played it as well.

Phil: Did you finish the thing?

Tom: Yep, I finished it.

Phil: Okay, so I'm going to describe it this time.

Phil: You're going to look up who made it and when and all the rest of it.

Phil: But this was a game, I think that was available either through Amazon Games, which is a fantastic thing if you've got Amazon Prime.

Tom: I think I played it from one of the sales of the century.

Phil: Of the century, right.

Phil: And I think this was the, yes, and on the PC, so when we refer to the sale of the century, that's itch.io.

Phil: And Wonder Song is a D game.

Phil: I would say that, and you can disagree with any of this, I would say it's very similar to Zelda in terms of it's everything.

Phil: You're basically walking around on a D level, you're going into people's houses, you're talking to them, and they're very much in that same level as the people that you have in Zelda.

Phil: They may not be saying, I am error, but it has that same feel of it to me.

Tom: I think there is a bit more character depth to it than Zelda

Phil: Yeah, then the character calling themselves, I am error, and that's the only thing you can say.

Phil: In this game, you are basically picking up on environmental cues that are audio.

Phil: You have essentially, if you can imagine, a color wheel that you can activate using a button on a controller.

Phil: Yeah, it's fun to describe video games.

Phil: A color wheel that comes up around your character.

Phil: So if you heard a bird make a chime, you would then move your analog controller around to mimic that chime, and then that activates a ability or some other thing that happens in the scene so that you can progress through this D platformer.

Phil: So I would say that it has a paper cut style to it, or rather a flat style to it.

Tom: I would say it has an MS Paint aesthetic to it.

Phil: Oh no, no, I wouldn't go that way.

Tom: I don't mean that in an insulting way.

Phil: I would say that it looks alike.

Phil: This is a shitty thing to say.

Phil: It looks like a Unity game.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's a bit better than Paint, but...

Tom: I would say Paint is a lot better than Unity if we're going to be comparing the two.

Phil: As a game engine, I completely agree.

Phil: In terms of compatibility, at least Paint works on all Windows platforms.

Phil: By the way, I love Linux.

Phil: I'm still using my Linux Mint install on my laptop.

Phil: And, oh my god, it's so freeing just not to be...

Phil: Anyway, I won't start talking like a Linux person.

Tom: While we are talking about the art style, I genuinely did not mean that as an insult.

Tom: I think visually it's one of the best indie games I've played because it is extremely darish in its colors, but it does it in a very modern style.

Tom: So it is perhaps the only indie game, you mentioned Zelda that takes what is the basis of old pixel art, which is clashing colors to create really strong contrasts and does it in a modern, completely unpixelated style.

Tom: Also using both contrasts, not just with colors, but also with geometry as well.

Tom: So you have a lot of really simple things, like tree trunks that are just a straight line and trees that might be a green hexagon on this trunk.

Tom: But then you'll have rounded details on characters' hats and hairs and heads and things like that.

Tom: It's actually, I think, a really complex and exceptionally well-done art style that I haven't seen any indie game, other indie game, doing that is taking this old sort of design principles from the pixel art era of games and building on it and creating a totally new aesthetic effect that is on the same principles, but with modern technology that isn't just doing the same thing, but with finer detail because you can use more pixels now.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, you're bringing up an interesting point.

Phil: I wasn't immediately struck by the visual quality of the game.

Phil: You like, you know, I kind of compared it a little bit to a night in the woods.

Phil: And I thought that, you know, like, you know, in my mind's eye, I think a night in the woods has a better, I don't know if it's a better aesthetic, because night in the woods just kind of looks like a, an animated kids TV show.

Phil: Is this any different from that?

Tom: I think this is very different from that.

Tom: Whereas night in the woods is, as you said, just a much more standard, cartoony art style.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: I mean, they could take night in the woods and turn it into a kids show.

Phil: And you'd just, you'd be like, yeah, okay, I get it.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Okay, yeah, no, that's fair.

Phil: That's fair.

Phil: Now, I've only played about two hours of the game.

Phil: So does that music tool, that music interface with the color wheel where you're replicating sounds that you hear in the environment, which was kind of, I mean, it was very cool.

Phil: It was like, if you want to think about it, like, you know, guitar hero type thing or rhythm game type thing, it was very much like that, but different as well.

Phil: Does that continue throughout the game?

Phil: Does it evolve into something?

Tom: Yep, it gets progressively more complex as you're going along.

Tom: And I think the thing that surprised me about it the most is that they consistently come up with new ways of using it to keep things interesting, because the gameplay is extremely simple in each individual section, but they managed to come up with different ways to use this mechanic, but it remains interesting until the end of the game, or at least it did for me, which I was very impressed by.

Phil: And how long is this game?

Tom: Five to eight hours, depending on how fast you are, would be my estimate.

Tom: So for taking such a simple mechanic and coming up with new ideas consistently, I think that's a pretty good effort.

Phil: In terms of its narrative, I mean, it's one of wards for its story, basically to me, it was just a, okay, again, I've only played the first couple of hours, so it's basically like you're a child and you're in a village and you're doing things that is helping the village.

Phil: I'm assuming it goes to more meaningful places for it to win.

Tom: Well, you're playing as a bard and a fairy appears to the bard and tells the bard that the universe is ending and that the bard has to go off and save the universe, essentially.

Phil: That's right, which is a pretty typical setup, really.

Tom: Yep, yep.

Tom: And they do do some interesting things with this.

Tom: I think it is a game where it's best played without having anything spoiled about it because they, likely with the gameplay, they take this very simple premise and add progressively more and more interesting and amusing wrinkles to it so that it becomes something that is a lot more interesting than it first appears to be.

Phil: Seems to me like I should get back to it and keep going with it.

Phil: I did enjoy it while I was playing it.

Phil: If you're wondering at home where you can play it, it is available on Mac and Windows and Switch, PlayStation and Xbox One, and was released back in

Phil: Again, it is probably the most relevant platform you can get it on is Windows and Switch at this point.

Phil: And it was fairly well received beyond the awards it got for its story.

Phil: It received scores averaging out about out of

Tom: And I would recommend persevering with it because it didn't make a great first impression on me.

Tom: But as I continued on, not unlike Omori, it turned out that there was more than there first appeared to it.

Phil: And like with Undertale and Stardew Valley, this game was developed by its composer as well, which is always a big plus.

Tom: Oh, and I will add, that reminds me, I think one of the most enjoyable little things in it throughout the game is there are several instances where you get to compose your own song that becomes a part of the game.

Phil: Oh, cool.

Phil: Which I can see the appeal for you there, you being a musician and...

Tom: I would be a loose use of that term, but yes.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Anything else on Wonder Song?

Tom: Um, I think we need to roll the die of destiny.

Phil: Oh, that's true.

Phil: It's Final Impressions, isn't it?

Tom: Yes, it is.

Tom: So here we go.

Tom: Unfortunately, Wonder Song gets a out of

Phil: No, no, that's got to be wrong.

Phil: I think it made an out of

Tom: No, a out of

Phil: Were you holding the dice upside down?

Tom: Well, I don't think you can hold a dice upside down.

Phil: Oh yeah, you can.

Phil: You just put a dice in your hand, and then you hold it upside down.

Tom: So that would be in orientation to your hand.

Phil: Yeah, in orientation to the surface at which you're going to throw it.

Phil: In the Northern Hemisphere, this has a completely...

Phil: You probably just threw a Northern Hemisphere die roll.

Phil: Just do a down under for The Game Under Podcast at gameunder.net.

Tom: So does that mean I should hold it under my hand?

Phil: I think you should just do the reverse of what you just did and see what we get.

Tom: Well, the first time I think my hand...

Tom: The palm was probably facing up the first time.

Phil: See, that's your problem.

Tom: So this time we'll go for a downward facing palm roll.

Phil: Downward facing.

Tom: Well, that did result in an improvement.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: It went up to a out of

Phil: A ?

Phil: Okay, maybe you did a little sideways...

Phil: You maybe did a...

Phil: You need to do a South American dice roll from the side.

Phil: And then we'll add that.

Tom: We've now got a out of

Phil: Oh, there you go.

Phil: That's what we needed.

Phil: Okay, so that was Wonder Song.

Phil: As I said, it's probably most relevant to you if you have a PC or a Switch.

Phil: Fantastic game by Tom Towers' view, which means it is a must play.

Phil: One final piece of news, I see, and then we'll close out the show, I see that you are, your investment plan has worked out quite well.

Phil: You bought an Oculus Quest

Phil: It's now gone up in value.

Phil: Well, not because of the, you know, thousands of pirated games you put on it, but because the makers of your headset, Facebook, also known as Meta, did something that is, I think, unprecedented, but probably not exclusive.

Phil: I think if we really looked at it, we might find a difference.

Phil: But they put the price up.

Phil: So right now, an Oculus Quest is $in Australia.

Phil: And they put the price up by $in the US, $in Japan.

Phil: My question is, because my whole thing was, I'm not going to buy a Quest

Phil: I'm going to wait until Quest comes out, and then I'll buy a Quest on the cheap.

Phil: So now that whole thing's been scuttled.

Phil: Drew the question.

Phil: You haven't talked about it much lately.

Phil: How is your meta quest going?

Tom: It's still going okay.

Tom: Since the collarbone, it has been impractical to play, though.

Tom: Due to the double-handed motion control scheme.

Phil: So what you're saying is you might be able to move one cheap to a cohort.

Tom: I would probably keep it though, because I do want to play what would probably be not just game of all time, but game of the universe for you, which is Resident Evil VR.

Tom: It should be possible soon.

Phil: I think, yeah, that sounds nausea-inducing.

Phil: But you were okay with all that, weren't you?

Tom: It depends on the game.

Tom: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Okay, well, with that, unless you've got anything else you want to talk about, I think we can close out the show.

Tom: Well, I do have to bring up something that I think has become an important theme to most game websites, which is Ur-Fascism.

Tom: Because I think we've...

Tom: Ur-Fascism.

Tom: I think the Ur stands for Umberto Reco.

Tom: I have no idea what you're talking about.

Tom: His theory...

Tom: you know Umberto Eco?

Phil: No.

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Eco.

Tom: The Italian author.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: All over the internet and media, including games media, I think fascism became an interesting topic and they always reference Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism theory and his points of fascism.

Tom: And I have now read Umberto Eco's essays on fascism.

Tom: And I'm a little confused because in all of this media on fascism today that I've seen, that constantly reference Umberto Eco, I have not seen mentioned anywhere that two of the most defining and important characteristics of fascists are one, penis envy, and two, advertising rhetoric.

Tom: So I'm just flabbergasted.

Phil: Go on.

Tom: That's it.

Tom: That's it.

Tom: That's it.

Tom: I'm just shocked that everywhere I see people referencing Umberto Eco and none mentioned penis envy or advertising.

Phil: I'm not well-versed in this topic, but I'm sure many of our listeners are.

Phil: So with that, Umberto Eco, comment.

Phil: Thank you.

Tom: You're welcome.

Tom: And I'm surprised as the psychological expert on The Game Under Podcast that you're not well-versed in penis envy or the theories of advertising.

Phil: Theories of advertising, I could probably talk about for several hours, but the other topic of which you speak, I have certainly interacted with people that have that syndrome, but it's obviously not something I can relate to, but it's not something I've obviously spent a lot of time thinking about other than when I've seen people that I know go out and buy really expensive sports cars.

Phil: But, yeah, I mean, you know, thank you for a classic ending to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: You can visit us at gameunder.net.

Phil: I've got a review up there.

Phil: That's the most recent thing we've posted.

Phil: But, yeah, so with that, I am Phil Fogg.

Tom: I am Tom Towers, an expert on P.Sanford.

Phil: And maybe we can expound on that in the next episode.

Game Under Podcast 144

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

0:00:10 Introduction

0:00:49 Magazine Talk

0:04:40 Play Australia Magazine Review

0:11:00 COVID 2 (Sequel Impressions)

0:15:11 Collar Bone's Connected to...

0:26:47 Square Enix Sells Tomb Raider et al.

0:33:30 This War of Mine

0:38:38 All profits from this podcast will be going to Ukraine

0:41:00 Opiate Talk

0:58:30 Gran Turismo 7 Update

1:01:00 Mario Kart 8

Transcript
Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I am your co-host, Mr.

Phil: Phil Fogg, and I am joined by Tom Towers.

Phil: Tom, welcome to Australia's longest running video game podcast until someone tells us that we're not.

Tom: Well, no one's gonna tell us that unless they're a liar.

Phil: Well, they would be, because I think we are the longest, well, I know that we're the longest running.

Phil: We've stuck at this longer than anyone else, which is more than what I can say for various video game publications and magazines, but perhaps we'll get into that in a little bit, unless you want me to jump right into it right now.

Tom: We may as well.

Tom: It sounds like you're eager to talk about it.

Phil: Well, I am, because I went into my local grocery store.

Phil: So I live in a small community, and this grocery store came in about years ago and shut down all the local stores in our community because they were the one stop for everything, including a really spectacular news agency and toy store.

Phil: So everyone said that's all right because this grocery store is here now and they're going to have the magazines and this way you don't have to walk into two shops and do two transactions.

Phil: So I walk into the news agent and after coming home from a gun safety course, because I'm applying for my gun license, which is another topic, but I figured, oh, you know, now that I know a little bit about this, so, you know, maybe I could get a magazine like Guns and Ammo, you know, and start reading about it just to get a little bit more informed on the hobby.

Phil: So I went to my grocery store and the magazine section is not there.

Phil: And I start walking around the shop, they've moved everything, like everything is moved to a stupidly illogical place.

Phil: Like there's now nappies that used to be like, baby's nappies used to be next to like paper towels and toilet paper and tissue, right, paper products.

Phil: Now the nappies are like in the candy section and you know, the cereal sections in with the-

Tom: Well, there's a child related still.

Tom: So maybe that's their logic.

Phil: Well, not the nappies I was looking to buy.

Phil: In any case, so the magazines aren't there.

Phil: So I go to this, you know, stereotypical, you know, pimply face team, who's the only other guy in a store.

Phil: And I say, hey, do you-

Phil: Where's the magazines?

Phil: Do you have any magazines?

Phil: He's like, oh, well, we have the IGA magazine at the-

Phil: After, well, first of all, he said magazines.

Phil: I'm like, yeah, you know, like Guns and Ammo, Women's Weekly, People.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: He said, well, we've got the magazine at the-

Phil: IGA magazine at the front of the store, which is the four page color catalog that tells you what this week's specials are.

Tom: Is it good reading?

Phil: Clearly not what I'm looking for.

Phil: And I said, oh, no, not the store catalog, like a magazine like Women's Weekly or Guns and Ammo or, you know, Sport Fishing.

Phil: Oh, maybe it's over there near the newspapers.

Phil: And I'm like, no, there's only newspapers there, because we can both see the newspaper stand from where we're standing, and there's three newspapers.

Phil: And he's like, oh, no, I guess, I guess not.

Phil: I guess not.

Phil: So this is the situation, man.

Phil: There's no more magazines in my local shop.

Phil: And I talked to him today.

Phil: I said, so what's the deal?

Phil: Like, are you going to get magazines back?

Phil: Like, well, they're like, well, you know, we have these three magazines, which are, you know, the three most scurrilous, you know, you know, pop culture, celebrity type magazines.

Tom: Which ones?

Phil: I think they said the name, the lady said it was called Take Five and OK.

Phil: I'd never heard of these things, but you know.

Tom: I think OK I may have heard of.

Phil: I think I've seen OK.

Phil: I'd recognize OK.

Phil: And I could have misunderstood her accent about the whole Take Five thing.

Tom: But she may have been saying to you, OK, Take Five.

Phil: OK, Take Five.

Phil: That's hilarious.

Phil: But in any case, I have I blind subscribed at a cost of $a year to a video game magazine called Play Australia.

Phil: Are you familiar with this magazine?

Tom: It sounds familiar.

Phil: Well, what was the magazine that you used to go on and on about?

Tom: Hyper.

Phil: Hyper.

Phil: That's it.

Phil: Right.

Phil: It's not Play.

Phil: So anyway, this is Play Australia.

Phil: And it's got five contributing editors.

Phil: And then there's about probably, I'd say, seven freelancers.

Phil: And it is a -page mag, full color gloss, published by Future Publishing, which is the same people that do RetroGamer magazine, one of the other four remaining video game magazines.

Phil: Play was the longest running PlayStation magazine in the UK until it was folded, and then it was resurrected last year in of all years.

Phil: And from what I can tell, they licensed this around the world.

Phil: So this Australian Play magazine is actually just the licensed version of the UK.

Phil: So like the Australian Game Informer magazine that used to come out, it's predominantly the content produced by the UK team.

Phil: And then they've got, like I said, five local editors that localize it and make it Australian sort of thing, and then contribute their own reviews as well.

Phil: So all in all, so first of all, I was pretty impressed with it.

Phil: They're up to their seventh issue.

Phil: It is a PlayStation only magazine, but given the way gaming is these days, obviously they can't rely on exclusives alone.

Phil: In terms of their scoring, they appear to use most of the scale.

Phil: Like most of their scores were, I have to admit, seven to ten with one ten for Elden Ring.

Phil: But they do give out a two.

Phil: They did give out a three.

Phil: So Shadow Warrior I don't know if you knew that that had come out.

Tom: I did not.

Phil: Well, Shadow Warrior has come out.

Phil: It got a five out of ten.

Phil: They gave a two out of ten to Curious Expedition, a five out of ten to The Cruel Key, and even a two out of, yeah, like I said, a two, a three and a five out of ten.

Phil: They also gave a seven out of ten to Dying Light

Phil: So they're using the scale, and there was one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen reviews, which is pretty healthy for a magazine, and a similar amount of previews.

Phil: In terms of their credibility, well, the front cover had Ghostwire Tokyo.

Phil: It's made by Tango Works, who is the team that was headed up by Mikami, I believe.

Phil: They did the two games, The Evil Within, and Ghostwire Tokyo was supposed to be the third Evil Within, but then they've set it in Tokyo, which sounds like it's going to be a cult classic, which is a PlayStation exclusive.

Phil: So it's probably the last Bethesda game now that they're owned by Microsoft that will be a PlayStation exclusive, but also available on PC.

Phil: But in terms of their credibility, well, they've got the front cover.

Phil: Ghostwire has also got the back cover, which is usually the big ad, which costs typically around $for a back ad on a subscriber-based magazine.

Tom: Do you think it's going to be that much today?

Phil: In Australia, probably still, I'd say.

Phil: I mean, $is not a lot of money for advertising.

Tom: But with inflation, it's a lot less.

Phil: That's right, yep.

Phil: But they got the front cover for their back page ad.

Phil: They got the front cover, a review, which was, I'm looking right now, out of and also a fluff piece preview.

Phil: So in terms of their credibility...

Tom: They had a preview and review in the same issue.

Phil: A preview and a review, yeah.

Phil: The preview was the making of, and that was pretty light.

Phil: It was probably less than words, spread over four pages, and didn't really get into it.

Tom: Well, there's basically never been a good preview written in a games magazine ever, so...

Phil: No.

Tom: That's not expected.

Phil: But yeah, they gave a preview, a making of and a review in addition to the front cover for their back cover ad.

Phil: But you know what?

Phil: I'm at the point where I'll take what I can get.

Phil: The rest of the magazine was very good.

Phil: There was no grammatical errors that I could pick up on, and you'd be like, yeah, like you'd ever pick up on a grammatical error.

Phil: But in terms of readability, it was pretty good, and they had a pretty diverse crew in terms of the number of people contributing.

Phil: There's a game on there I want you to write down because I think it's right up your alley.

Phil: It's a game called Martha.

Phil: Martha...

Phil: is dead.

Tom: I think I've heard of it.

Phil: Yeah, it's a walking simulator with a photography bend.

Phil: And it's really sort of creepy.

Phil: And I'm pretty sure it'd have to be available on PC, but it was also available on PlayStation

Phil: But it looked like a game that was right up your alley about six or seven hours long.

Phil: They gave it an out of

Phil: So yeah, all in all, play Australia.

Phil: It's another voice.

Phil: It's certainly not a magazine I'd rely on.

Phil: % for my coverage.

Tom: Is it released per month?

Phil: It is released monthly.

Tom: So $isn't too bad.

Phil: Yeah, $isn't too bad.

Phil: It's more than what I'd like to pay for a magazine subscription.

Phil: But given the lack of choices, it's certainly something that I'm going to support.

Tom: Now you mentioned Hyper.

Tom: I actually sent you an issue of Hyper a long time ago.

Tom: I don't think we ever actually discussed it on the show.

Phil: No, and I don't have it in front of me, so I wouldn't be able to give too many substantive comments about it.

Tom: So we'll have to do that in the next episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Yeah, sure.

Phil: It's still handy.

Phil: I did read it and I did appreciate it.

Phil: It was mouldy smelling, as promised.

Tom: It certainly was.

Phil: Yep, yep.

Tom: Or rather mildew.

Phil: Yeah, mildewy.

Phil: But with that, is there anything that you wanted to talk about this week before we get into some games or some news?

Tom: Certainly no news.

Tom: I don't think there's anything interesting news-wise ever, but I think you also have impressions of coronavirus for us.

Phil: Yeah, look, and that's why we didn't record last week.

Phil: Look, we're trying to, I think it's fair to say, try and record every week or every other week as best we can.

Phil: But after your impressions of COVID, I decided that as usual, being a follower of yours, if it's good enough for Tom Towers, I will give it a try.

Phil: So I went out and got some COVID.

Tom: Well done.

Tom: And given the timing, you may have got it from me, in fact.

Phil: I think so.

Phil: The show wasn't quite long enough.

Phil: I think you have to be on a show for four hours before you can get COVID from your co-host.

Tom: I think so.

Phil: So I went out and got it.

Phil: It was on sale.

Phil: It was pretty easy to get, I've got to say.

Phil: It used to be, I'd say, pretty hard to get in Australia, but recently you've been able to pick it up pretty easily, even from small children.

Tom: I think the thing is they've started producing it here, whereas before it was imported, whereas now we're manufacturing our own coronavirus.

Phil: I wish we were manufacturing our own video games like we used to years ago, but anyway.

Tom: Or magazines.

Tom: We're also importing them.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: Hey, do you want some impressions or?

Tom: Yes, go ahead.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, I thought it was pretty weak.

Phil: I had muscle pain for about two days, which was really distracting.

Phil: Just a general sense of fatigue, if you will.

Phil: And then one night of fever that wasn't even proper fever.

Phil: Like, you know, the kind I like.

Tom: That's the part you were looking forward to and it didn't live up to it.

Phil: No, I did have a weird dream, but I don't think that was related to the fever.

Phil: It wasn't weird enough.

Phil: That was still pretty weird.

Phil: But yeah, all in all, it's a big fizzle.

Phil: I mean, after two days of muscle pain, basically I had a positive test to show for it and just basically having to stay away from people for seven days, which was, you know, the best part about it.

Phil: But yeah, I mean, I've got my own die of destiny here.

Phil: Unless you have any follow up questions, I'm ready to review it.

Tom: It sounds like a pretty disappointing experience overall.

Phil: It was, yeah, completely disappointing.

Phil: But not as disappointed as the people whom I gave my impressions of it, because there was a very large sympathetic audience that wanted to know how absolutely horrible it was to have COVID, because it is still very rare in my community.

Phil: And there's a lot of people who are very fixated on how horrible COVID is.

Phil: So when I took great pleasure in telling them how much it was really just a very mediocre cold so yeah, so if it's okay, I'm going to roll the die.

Phil: My Phil Fogg die of destiny.

Tom: Go ahead.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, the die of destiny has given it a out of

Tom: So the same score.

Phil: The same score.

Phil: The dies can't lie.

Tom: I didn't hear any dice rolling, I have to say.

Phil: Well, it could sort of just plonked on to the desk, okay?

Phil: I'll fix it in post.

Tom: I'm questioning if there actually is a die of destiny there.

Phil: Oh, really?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Okay, well, my friend, do you want me to roll it again?

Tom: Yes, please do.

Phil: Okay, here we go.

Phil: There you go, a again.

Tom: Amazing.

Phil: Yeah, I know, twice in a row.

Phil: Who could have foretold?

Phil: But no one can argue with the die of destiny.

Phil: So, how's it, I mean, how's COVID been for you?

Phil: You're completely done and finished with it by now, right?

Tom: Yep, I'm finished with it.

Tom: I already given my final impressions on another show.

Tom: Although there's still, I would say, an above average quantity of phlegm.

Tom: But other than that, completely done with it.

Tom: So, to celebrate the end of coronavirus, I thought I would try something a little more interesting than coronavirus.

Tom: So, I was thinking...

Phil: Like syphilis or...?

Tom: No, not syphilis.

Tom: I thought I'm done with viruses.

Tom: I did a virus.

Tom: Let's try something else.

Tom: I have not broken a bone for decades.

Tom: So, I thought it might be a good idea to break my collarbone.

Phil: What?

Phil: On your bike?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: You've broken your collarbone?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Why are we recording?

Tom: What?

Tom: Why are we recording?

Tom: I broke it on the rd last month.

Tom: So, it's been a while since then.

Tom: And it was, in fact, a very impressive break.

Tom: The bone was completely in half, and I would say or cm separating the two halves vertically.

Tom: And as soon as the technicians saw it, they said I would need surgery.

Phil: That's the upsell.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: The doctor's comment was that I would need surgery.

Tom: The surgeon's comment was that it should heal perfectly without surgery.

Tom: And while they have started...

Phil: Wait, what football match was on that he was trying to get to?

Tom: I don't think any.

Tom: But while this was on Saturday, so I went there in the morning on Saturday, and the emergency room was bizarrely empty.

Tom: But as the day wore on, there was a steady influx of amateur AFL players.

Phil: Oh, sweet.

Tom: All of them who ended up having slings apply to them.

Phil: Oh, my God, that's so comical.

Phil: I just love to see this lineup of AFL players with slings on them.

Phil: Only in Melbourne, you know, the home of the AFL or the VFL for that matter.

Phil: I guess they're the VFL players, aren't they?

Tom: Yes, they would be.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Phil: I just sort of immediately just cut to an animated version of your life.

Tom: I want fucking pussies, though, because I was there.

Tom: I refused the sling and just held my arm in place, holding my belt the entire time, unlike these fucking weak AFL players.

Tom: Why don't they take up a real sport?

Phil: Okay, they're using real slings, and you're somehow superior to them because you're miming using a sling?

Tom: Yes, I have the strength and stoicism to not need some fucking sling, like a coward AFL player.

Phil: If we could just animate this, the show would be over by now.

Phil: Okay, so...

Phil: Your collarbone, is that your clavicle?

Tom: Yep, that's the clavicle.

Phil: Clavicle, oh, righto.

Phil: That's not a good one to break.

Tom: Well, it will take a long time to recover, apparently.

Tom: Without surgery is -months.

Tom: With surgery, it's about a month, I think they said, but the surgery damages the nerves.

Phil: Oh yeah, it would.

Tom: And if it's healing well, does not result in a superior level of healing either.

Phil: I've got to say, in a woman, I appreciate a good clavicle.

Phil: I don't know that men carry off the clavicle as good as a lady.

Tom: I'd say it depends on the man.

Phil: And the woman.

Tom: I have excellent clavicles if I do so myself, or one excellent clavicle.

Tom: Now we'll see what the other way ends up being.

Phil: So is it your left or right clavicle?

Tom: Left.

Phil: Okay.

Tom: And luckily I'm right-handed.

Phil: How's that help?

Phil: So you can rub it?

Tom: No, so I, well, your left hand, your left arm needs to be immobilized.

Tom: So if you're left-handed, that will make doing a lot of things much more awkward.

Phil: This is like the story I told a few years ago where I injured myself and I was like, oh, thank God it's my left hand.

Phil: Oh, no, that's not my gamer thumb.

Phil: Whatever it was.

Phil: I think that was last year where I had a massive cut or injury and I was like, oh, thank God it's not on the thumb.

Phil: Okay, well, I'm sorry to hear that, man, but, you know, like, that's pretty cool that you've survived it.

Phil: How's the bike, the mighty, the mighty firing eagle?

Tom: Well, the bike, I think it's probably okay.

Tom: I haven't actually inspected it properly yet.

Phil: Oh, yeah, and how did it happen?

Phil: Do you run into a bus or?

Tom: Well, it was essentially the, my equivalent to drunk driving because someone invited me to the local market in the morning and I thought I am not in a state in which I should be going to the local market in the morning, let alone riding a bicycle.

Tom: But I ended up going anyway with a completely non-functioning brain.

Tom: And on the way riding home, it was a lovely sunny day, so I decided I would ride to the river, which is just a few blocks away, and where they work is actually right nearby there.

Tom: So I was riding past, right near their place, and I saw a billboard that I wanted to take a picture of.

Tom: And my non-functioning brain, while I was putting on a glove on my left hand with one hand, I saw this billboard, and my non-functioning brain decided to, for some reason, begin slowing down while I had my left hand off the handlebars and was going along at probably about km an hour on a very unstable, rickety, $folding electric bicycle.

Phil: What?

Phil: Your own electric bicycle?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And...

Phil: When did this happen?

Tom: Well, I've had this electric bicycle for several years now.

Phil: Oh, is that when they first started installing the publicly available electrical bicycles and you stole one?

Tom: No, this was before then, actually.

Tom: I think they may have been inspired by people like me.

Phil: I don't want to get too deep into the reeds here, but is it a good brand or is it a China brand?

Tom: It is a China brand.

Tom: And for $which is the price I paid for it, I think it was actually under $

Tom: I think it has been an exceptional vehicle because for $it has lasted several years, many, many kilometers.

Tom: The battery has certainly got worse over the years.

Tom: It's gone from a range of maybe kilometers if you're economical in how you're riding to kilometers if you're economical and you're riding.

Tom: So realistically, to around kilometers range.

Phil: So you know this is your brain's fault, right?

Phil: Because you saw something aesthetically that you liked and wanted to do something creative with.

Tom: Well, it was my brain's fault more so for two things.

Tom: One, the decision to ride the bike with a non-functioning brain.

Tom: And then two, the non-functioning brain.

Tom: So I should add for our American listeners that in Australia, the brakes are around the other way.

Tom: So the right hand brake is actually the front brake, not the rear brake.

Tom: So if I have my left hand off the handlebars and I'm going along, if my brain is functioning, if I'm on a bike with recently serviced grabby brakes, I'm obviously never going to be braking with the right hand brake.

Tom: For some reason, my brain decided that it should just attempt to slow in the present circumstances regardless, resulting in immediately the front wheel grabbing, the bike immediately turning a little to the right and basically flipping forwards so that I had to somersault off the handlebars so that I didn't grow face first into the ground.

Tom: And then sliding along the asphalt for about or meters.

Tom: Luckily, purely by coincidence, I happened to be wearing a leather jacket and jeans.

Phil: Is that the leather jacket with the eagle on it?

Tom: No, but it is one of the leather jackets from that classic Game Under anecdote.

Tom: So one leather jacket saved a cat, and another leather jacket has now saved my skin.

Tom: So they continue to be a wonderfully useful purchase.

Phil: Well, man, I'm so sorry that we even dragged you onto this podcast.

Phil: If I'd known you had a broken clavicle, I wouldn't have made you record anything.

Phil: But that's quite impressive.

Phil: I've done some really stupid things between this and the last podcast as well, but I'm not going to go into that right now as it relates to putting my physical person in danger.

Phil: I think it's probably time for us to get into the gaming news and in some gaming impressions, if that's okay.

Tom: No, it isn't, because I surely have to give some actual impressions of The Broken Bone, just briefly.

Phil: So the first news story.

Phil: Okay, The Broken Bone itself, like it didn't jag out of your body or anything, right?

Tom: Yes, it did.

Tom: Well, I thought that maybe it didn't come out through the skin quite, but I thought perhaps I had dislocated my shoulder or something, but there was an experienced comical nurse there.

Phil: Comical nurse?

Tom: Yes, a comical nurse.

Tom: As soon as she saw the bone sticking up about four centimeters higher than the other one on one side, she concluded that I had broken my clavicle, but nevertheless touched it, to be sure.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Tom: In classic nurse style.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But I just wanted to add, just briefly, it is, I think, a great bone to break after my experience with my toe and my elbow, because you can keep it...

Tom: It's not a bone that is in a part of the moving body, so you still have a little bit of arm movement, so it's not as frustrating as wearing a cast.

Tom: And because there's no cast, so far it has been fascinating, because without an X-ray, it has been possible to watch the right side of the bone, which was completely pushed down into my chest and not visible at all, gradually rise to the same position as the other one, and the part of the bone that had been elevated gradually moved down towards it.

Tom: So we're getting a live depiction of the movement of the bone, which has been very fascinating.

Tom: So I think after the disappointment of coronavirus, this has been, I think, a very fascinating, a big step up from that.

Phil: Oh, definitely.

Phil: I mean, bone breaking has to be a big win over viruses, you know, because with the virus, you don't know how much of it's in your head, you know, but with a broken bone, there's no avoiding it.

Phil: You've broken the bone, you know.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Wow, man.

Phil: Okay, so do you want to give it a score?

Tom: Well, these are just the first impressions.

Tom: I think we can give it a score later on.

Phil: Well, with that, I do want to get into the news.

Phil: I mean, probably the biggest news of the day is that Crystal Dynamics and IDOS Vancouver have been purchased, have been sold by Square Enix so that they can fund a blockchain initiative.

Phil: I mean, that's the actual reason.

Phil: That's the stated reason.

Phil: So like, yeah, hey, Tom, just so you know, we got to let you go, mate.

Phil: And I know this is difficult for you, but with the money that we'll be able to save from your salary, we're going to invest it into the blockchain.

Phil: And we think this is going to be very lucrative for us.

Phil: So anyway, your new owner is a company called The Embracer and they've somehow a magic, somehow magically got people working for them in the United States already in such video game companies as THQ and such what.

Phil: And yeah, so that's it.

Phil: You're gone.

Phil: So Square Enix sold Crystal Dynamics, the home of Gex, Tomb Raider.

Phil: Deus Ex is the Eidos part.

Phil: So keeping in mind, Tomb Raider was developed by Core in the UK, C-O-R-E, and then Eidos bought them out.

Phil: Eidos is responsible for Thief and Deus Ex, most notably.

Phil: And then Crystal Dynamics was the studio that was doing the work of those.

Phil: So they got bored as well.

Phil: And Crystal Dynamics did Legacy of Kain and Gex.

Phil: But apparently, there's like something different IPs wrapped up in this.

Phil: And they sold for only $million, which in terms of companies like Microsoft hoovering up companies so that they can build these Netflix type subscription model for video games, is not a lot of money.

Phil: So it's kind of a shock to me, but at the same time, Crystal Dynamics did have the failure of that online adventure game.

Phil: Square Enix was never happy with the...

Tom: What was the online adventure game?

Phil: The Avengers.

Tom: Okay.

Phil: Yeah, the Avengers.

Phil: I'm sorry, not the online adventure game, the online Avengers game.

Phil: And they did Guardians of the Galaxy, which was critically well received but commercially a bit of a flop.

Phil: But at the same time, Square Enix discounted that down to nothing, like the Black Friday within a month of Guardians of the Galaxy being released, even though it was critically acclaimed.

Phil: And I'd love to pick up a copy myself, but it's pretty hard to get here in Australia.

Phil: So overall, like this sounds like a really poor decision on the part of Square Enix, other than for them to...

Phil: I mean, the stated reason was we're going to use the money we were wasting on you on the blockchain, which is a big insult.

Phil: But I think ultimately the reason why they got rid of them was because it was never a good cultural fit.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: When Square Enix bought them, Japanese gaming was floundering and the West was it.

Phil: The West was present in terms of creative output.

Phil: But now, like you see games like From Software, even NIS's Persona series, games like Nier Automata, Japanese games have kind of gotten back into vogue with Western players on their own stance.

Phil: So now I'm thinking that Japanese companies don't need to have a quote Western developer to be relevant.

Phil: And I really just think this is Square just turtling and getting back to their core, as opposed to any other reason why they would get rid of, you know, what would otherwise be a pretty good group of intellectual property that would be wanted by anyone who's trying to build up a Netflix type subscription model.

Tom: Well, I think that out of all of those titles, including probably even Deus Ex, Tomb Raider is really only the big one at this stage.

Tom: And million does seem pretty low for it.

Tom: But I think outside of that, there probably isn't that much interesting or marketable there.

Tom: And the only other thing is you said that Japanese games have come back since then.

Tom: I think more importantly, Square Enix games have as well.

Tom: They've managed to restore the reputation of Final Fantasy since then.

Tom: So I think it makes more sense, as you're saying, that they're wanting to focus on their own things rather than attempting to publish stuff that they don't really have any idea of how to engage with.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And when you think about it, like we're here in Australia so we can kind of understand this.

Phil: So if me and you were like, hey, we really aren't reaching the Japanese market or the Canadian market or the African market or the US market with this podcast, or the Cuban market.

Phil: Anyway, I could go on and on.

Tom: Are you just rattling off a few places that we've had hits from that you don't know about?

Phil: And so we go out and we buy some other podcasts that can carry The Game Under brand internationally.

Phil: At the end of the day, though, you know, you've got maybe a golfing podcast, for example.

Phil: It's a lot of overhead and a lot of worry.

Phil: And ultimately, we can't control it from where we are, which for a Japanese company, you know, it's interesting that, you know, Sony has never opened up like a Sony USA electronics arm.

Phil: You know, they have for their publishing, but they haven't branched out with their hardware.

Phil: And it just makes sense that they'd want to keep this stuff close to home sort of thing.

Phil: And they probably don't feel like they've got an immense amount of control over it.

Phil: They most likely overpaid for the Marvel license for Guardians of the Galaxy and the Avengers game that Crystal Dynamics had to develop.

Phil: Interestingly enough, Crystal Dynamics is working on a perfect dark game, which would have to be for Microsoft because Rare owns perfect dark.

Phil: So obviously that'll continue on just as a side note.

Phil: But yeah, it just seems to me the logical divorce of a marriage that was never going to work.

Tom: I would agree.

Phil: Similarly, just talking about the Ukraine and Russia.

Phil: Well, Ukraine, EU, depending on which way this thing is going to break.

Tom: Could you describe that perhaps rather than a divorce, that a marriage that's unlikely to work out, ending its inevitable divorce, is this a marriage that is currently occurring?

Tom: Could we continue the metaphor?

Phil: If you look at the Russian side of things, you know, why would we get into it?

Phil: Okay, so, but in any case, This War of Mine, which was one of your top games of the s.

Tom: Might have been a game of the year one year.

Phil: The s, actually, yeah.

Phil: It was your game of the year for one of the years, and you included it in your best games of the s.

Tom: All deserving of that.

Phil: Yep, a game developed by, I believe, the studio is called Bit Studios, but it's a pretty small company based out of Poland, and basically, last week, well, maybe a week and a half ago, two weeks now, they basically said, any money that we make over the next seven days, we're going to send to aid humanitarian causes in Ukraine, which is, you know, really admirable.

Phil: And they started out, and they also announced that they're going to be bringing This War of Mine to current gen consoles.

Phil: Now, I don't know if it was a part of the promotion or just because I haven't checked in on the game recently, but also if you go, if you have already bought the game on Steam, you can go and download an update for it, which has extra chapters, essentially an expansion.

Phil: And like I said, I don't know if that's a part of this promotion or just because I haven't been paying attention.

Tom: I think that happened before this promotion.

Phil: Yeah, and like most games on Steam, I guess, whenever these incremental things come along, I think most of the publishers on Steam are pretty cool about just giving it to you, which is, again, one of the amazing things about PC gaming for the most part.

Phil: I'm sure there's some expansions that some publishers force you to pay for.

Phil: But even something like American Pro Trucker, I've noticed like they're very lavish.

Phil: It's basically like if we produce content for this game that you bought years ago, you can just keep downloading it for free.

Phil: Don't worry about it, which is fantastic.

Phil: But in any case, I went down, re-downloaded This War of Mine and then replayed it for a few hours, which we can talk about.

Phil: But yeah, the number one thing is that This War of Mine, I describe it for people that aren't aware of it as a survival game set in a D platformer type level.

Phil: So the gameplay area that you're playing it in is very limited.

Phil: It's basically one or two screens wide.

Phil: And you're in charge of, in my game, three people that you switch between.

Phil: And you're basically performing survival activities in an urban environment which has been devastated by modern war.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Or by a siege, indeed.

Phil: And This War of Mine was a game that was always interesting, but obviously given the social media coverage of the conflict in Ukraine, is a game that is really raw and real.

Phil: And okay, you look at it.

Phil: Initially, when I looked at this, I'm like, wow, man, this is a really cheap cash in.

Phil: Why are you promoting your game right now?

Phil: At this point of time, it's like, if you had published a Jaws video game, every time someone gets eaten by a shark, you're like, hey, yeah, you see the story?

Phil: Check out this game.

Phil: It's on sale.

Phil: And I thought it was pretty distasteful, which is why I added that story to the VG Press, that tagline to the VG Press, stay classy, shh, sorry.

Phil: But as it turns out, they were donating all their profits from one week of activity.

Phil: And this game was released, I think back in, yeah,

Tom: It's even older than Monopoly.

Phil: It was a flip, it was a flip game.

Phil: You basically flip the pages and the characters move.

Tom: What's the origin story of it?

Phil: It was brought out in on Android and iOS, and now it's on PC, obviously.

Phil: So it's been around for a while, and so you're like, okay, first of all, I don't know why these guys are still working on this game, but they're like, oh yeah, we're going to give all our money next week to people from Ukraine.

Phil: So you're like, okay, so that's like us saying, hey, you know what?

Phil: In fact, right now, I'm willing to pledge any money we make from The Game Under Podcast over the next month, we will provide to the Red Cross of Ukraine for their support.

Phil: And I'm, it's awfully presumptive, I should have asked you first, because you're the lead host on this whole endeavor.

Phil: But I mean, you support me in that, right?

Tom: I won't stop you.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Now, what if we were to pass on any costs of this podcast over the next month to the people of Ukraine?

Tom: I think that would be an even better endeavor, I think.

Phil: I think so, because I could go out and get some new equipment and quite a few games, honestly.

Tom: I think they owe us.

Tom: I mean, we covered Stalker in depth.

Phil: In depth for years without thanks or comment.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: It's about time Ukraine did something for us after all we've done for them.

Phil: It is.

Phil: And I've been using Gramily for millions of words.

Phil: And apparently, they're based in Ukraine too.

Phil: And it's been take, take, take.

Phil: I mean, I pay them $a month for that Gramily subscription.

Phil: Maybe it's time for them to start giving back to The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Maybe this is what led to the whole thing in the first place.

Phil: It could be a sense of guilt.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: And in fact, this is my own war.

Phil: This war is mine.

Phil: But in any case, I forget what I was saying.

Phil: Oh, in any case, yeah, they ended up raising like $because people wanted to support Ukrainians and get a free video game.

Phil: They could have just supported the Ukrainians and given them more money.

Phil: But I thought that was really cool.

Phil: I honestly thought that was really cool.

Tom: Well done to them.

Tom: I think they've done this with other various charities as well.

Tom: I'm pretty sure to begin with, when the game was first released, a percentage of the profits went to some charity, potentially of some suspicious origin, involved with war orphans.

Tom: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: So look, you know, we've joked around here a fair bit, but all credit to them for raising this money for charity.

Phil: I think it's wonderful.

Phil: I think it's really wonderful.

Phil: Like if you have a microphone, you know, you use it for good, just as we do on this podcast with our clavicle talk.

Tom: Raising clavicle break awareness.

Phil: We could eliminate clavicle breaks in our time.

Tom: Speaking of which, as well as potentially needless surgery, I was offered an opioid at the hospital.

Phil: Is that some sort of podcasting award?

Tom: I think it's I think it's a potentially addictive drug.

Phil: Oh, yes.

Phil: Opioid.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: And of course, I immediately took it.

Tom: And I can add it to the list of drugs that have had no effect.

Tom: This is a famous and popular drug, judging by rap music that people love and is supposedly an amazing experience.

Tom: It didn't even give me nausea or provide any pain relief for that matter.

Tom: So I'm giving oxys a thumbs down.

Phil: Oh, oxycontin.

Phil: Yeah, I confronted a nurse recently in a hospital because they had liquid oxycontin that they were purple.

Phil: No, I can't remember, but it was, you know, a lot of things are purple to me, but like they, you know, and they were done with it and they went through this whole extensive thing where they had two people like, OK, we've got this many milligrams.

Phil: We've got milliliters.

Phil: We're going to dispose of it.

Phil: You sign here, you sign here, because they have to account for every milliliter of it.

Phil: And then they poured it down the sink.

Phil: So I'm like, so do you guys have your own wastewater system here for the hospital?

Phil: And they're like, oh, yeah, totally.

Phil: Like all the water that comes into the hospital goes through this wastewater process.

Phil: We've got our own wastewater plan.

Phil: It makes sure that all the water is completely purified and clean because it's so important to our process.

Phil: And I said, no, no, no, what about the water?

Phil: You just threw oxycontin down a sink.

Phil: You just threw like a liter of oxycontin down a sink.

Phil: Like that's going somewhere, you know, like we recycle that water.

Phil: And they looked at me like completely dumbfounded.

Phil: And I said, look, hey, I'm not making a documentary.

Phil: I'm just asking a question.

Tom: You just don't have a microphone on.

Phil: Yeah, I said, I'm not making a documentary.

Phil: I'm just asking because like there's ads on the radio that say don't throw your medications down the toilet because, you know, they reprocess that water and turn it into drinking water, you know.

Phil: And you've just put a liter of oxycontin into the water system.

Phil: And they're like, oh, no, no, never thought of that.

Phil: So, yeah, real story.

Tom: They'd have been better off drinking it.

Phil: They would have been.

Phil: Yeah, but all joking aside, I mean, it was a good opportunity for me to re-pick up This War of Mine.

Phil: And, you know, I've got to say, I only bought it out of respect to you because you liked it so much.

Phil: What is it about that game that you liked it so much that it was one of the best games of the s for you?

Tom: Well, I think it stands out as being one of the few art pieces that is successfully anti-war to some degree, with basically the majority of supposedly anti-war content either promoting the concept of war through all the problems being solved through violent conflict, or ultimately actually being a way of absolving guilt for something.

Tom: So if you look at something like Apocalypse Now, a supposedly important anti-war film that shows how bad war is, there are some elements of that to it, but it is ultimately about how great the suffering was of American soldiers and how they got drawn into this horrifically bad thing that drove some of the greatest American minds insane, which is a completely disturbing and perverted take on Heart of Darkness, which is very much not that.

Tom: And there are very, very few artworks on War that do not ultimately either become absolution of the place that the thing is being made in, while supposedly being a depiction of something bad they've done or something bad they've engaged in, or just simply being a moral tale on how practically speaking, violence is the best solution to all of the problems that the characters face.

Tom: And that's not the case at all in This War of Mine, and not only is it thematically very interesting that it successfully avoids those issues, while also not suggesting that violence may not be necessary in certain situations or practically useful either.

Phil: Right.

Tom: In terms of gameplay, it's an absolutely exceptional survival game with incredibly deep mechanics that build on one another and a fascinating use of interaction between people and the environment as well.

Phil: I would say that it is not so much a survival game as it is a sim game.

Phil: So people that are familiar with the sims and similar type games are going to feel right at home because there is a need.

Phil: There's no life bars.

Phil: There's no hunger bars.

Phil: There's no fear bars or injury bars.

Phil: There are really like there are, but not in real time.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And I've got to say basically, you know, you can dilute this.

Phil: It's now we're talking about a or year old reference, but like, you know, in a Lost Vikings sense, you've got three characters and you can switch between them in this D platform plane.

Phil: And basically, if you can imagine a urban building that's cut in half and you're seeing it halfway through, and then you can walk up and down these four stories that are essentially two screens wide, two screens wide at the most.

Phil: And you're stuck there with three people and you've got to basically scavenge what you can from your own building first and then from the surrounding areas.

Phil: And during the day is a time to eat.

Phil: It's a time to build things in your environment that are going to strengthen your community, you and the two other people that live there.

Phil: This might be something as simple as a bed or a chair.

Phil: You can cook.

Phil: You can make a lockpick or a shovel to make digging through rubble more easily.

Phil: And then someone will come to your door and you get to trade with them.

Phil: They always want more than you want to give for items of survival.

Phil: And at night, you get to choose who gets to sleep, who gets to sleep in a bed, who gets to sleep on the floor, who gets to guard the building, or who gets to go out and scavenge.

Phil: And on these nightly scavenging hunts, you never know what you're going to find.

Phil: You might go to a church that you attended as a child and now you have to steal from it.

Phil: You might go to a gas station or a local close home and you might find that, you know, you're comfortable stealing some things and then you go into a room and you know that the people back in your apartment would really like this food, but now you've got to steal it from someone else.

Phil: And I've got to say that this game to me, the first time I played it, it was only out of respect to you.

Phil: I downloaded it, I played it and I died pretty quickly and then went, well, I've played it.

Phil: And in this time around, for whatever reason, I got stuck in it and I wanted to survive.

Phil: And I played the game horribly.

Phil: There's no tutorial that I can find.

Phil: I didn't even know that you could switch between the three people.

Phil: And I played pretty horribly.

Phil: I was criticizing the game because it's got all these icons that are crowded together and I didn't know.

Phil: It was really loose and sloppy as to how you could pick these icons for actions and then I finally figured out you use the cross pad for it.

Phil: But ultimately, this game really scared me because like after a few days of living in these people's skins, I was hungry and my group, we were industrious and we were trying everything we could, but ultimately we didn't have food and there was no way of getting food.

Phil: And we had one window of opportunity every night to go out and get food and ultimately that wasn't working very well.

Phil: So like I've managed to keep everyone alive, but now I'm on day and it's been four days since anyone's eaten and there's no, you know, dude turns up to try and sell us some food.

Phil: I've actually got to give him everything and then I realize I've given him all my water so I can't even boil the food that I've now acquired, you know.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: So it's a really good and profound game that I don't know how they've come across other than through personal experience would be the cheats way of doing it.

Phil: But maybe they're just really thoughtful people that have observed a lot of this type of content.

Tom: I think it was research, from what I can remember, rather than personal experience.

Tom: But you mentioned the other thing that is very impressive of it.

Tom: Again, in terms of it being a war-based thing is its focus on civilians and civilians in the context of the difficulty that wars create.

Tom: So, in this case, it is more exaggerated than in most situations, because it is based on a siege, rather than a city involved in a war or near a war that is occurring.

Tom: But essentially, what war does is it just totally destroys all of the basic things that you take for granted day to day.

Tom: So, as you experience in the game, simple things like getting water, food, heating, electricity and so on and so forth become gargantuan tasks that are very difficult to achieve.

Tom: Not necessarily to the same degree as in this War of Mine, but in ways that make life incredibly difficult and hard.

Tom: And again, that's not really something that is in the general conception of war other than in a nostalgic sense for the Second World War in countries that were barely affected by it.

Tom: For example, Britain with rationing and that sort of thing.

Phil: Right.

Phil: Oh my God, we can't get nylon stockings or cigarettes.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: In the United States.

Phil: Now I know that, you know, in Australia we are rationing butter and make no bones about it.

Phil: The people in the UK certainly did suffer during World War II.

Tom: I was mildly perturbed.

Tom: It's how I would put it.

Phil: Oh, well, yes.

Phil: But I'm not going to disparage the difficulty that they did have to go through nor the people of France either.

Phil: But yeah, so this game really does, you know, make you stop and think about how difficult it would be.

Phil: And as you said, there's no enemy.

Phil: This is all the people of the same city and the same culture and the same community doing this to each other.

Tom: And that would be my one potential criticism of it in terms of its realism.

Tom: But for the way the game is designed, it needs to play out like this.

Tom: There is no broader community.

Tom: It's a totally isolated thing, which is obviously totally unrealistic.

Tom: So in that sense, that's one failing of the game.

Tom: But if you imagine your role playing as a bunch of, for some totally unknown reason, eccentric loners, it makes sense.

Phil: I'd say, yeah, you're right.

Phil: And I'd say that what it comes down to, and this sounds like an old fashioned word, but like also the lack of decency.

Phil: And I think that I observed this in Australia when COVID was around and you go into the grocery store and all the shelves are cleared out.

Phil: And you get a sense of, oh, I'm sorry.

Phil: I thought we were a community.

Phil: I thought there was some decency here.

Phil: Because where I'm from, you wouldn't buy everything you could to the disadvantage of your fellow community member.

Phil: You just buy what you needed.

Phil: And I think that was revelatory to me that, oh, okay, what I thought was a community is actually not.

Phil: It's just a collection of individuals with their own selfish needs.

Tom: Well, that's certainly the culture of the moment, but I think that's also a very different sort of societal context.

Tom: So I don't think the two can really be translatable into one another.

Phil: Yeah, but if you were to drop the community, the same community that stripped the shelves of essentials and non-essentials into This War of Mine, I mean, what's the difference?

Tom: Well, the difference is the type of disaster.

Tom: The odds of a wartime type of issue not being massively propagandized into a community-based thing is extraordinarily low.

Tom: The only similar sort of thing you could come up with would be rather than a group of individuals attempting to get everything they can for themselves would be groups of people being excluded from this on the basis of them being on the wrong side.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Fair enough.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: However, I do think that you would absolutely agree with me that This War of Mine is a game that must be played.

Phil: I mean, you did include it in your top of the s.

Tom: Absolutely.

Tom: And with time, the more one reflects on it, I think the higher esteem I put it in.

Phil: Yeah, I agree.

Phil: I agree.

Phil: There's plenty of games that we appreciate.

Phil: And I think that this one, I'm actually, you know, stupidly, I feel really bad that I haven't looked up what -bit studios has done since then, because this is a really high quality game.

Phil: It's kind of like that SimCity level of game that led to Maxis' success.

Phil: And it would be interesting to see where this studio has gone since then.

Phil: But given the subject matter, I can't imagine that too many gamers are too sympathetic or enthusiastic about it.

Phil: But hey, they raised almost a million bucks in one week for a good cause.

Phil: So, you know, there's obviously some support out there for it.

Tom: I think they may have made Frostpunk, or possibly not.

Tom: Yes, Frostpunk and the Anomaly series.

Phil: Yeah, I'm not familiar with either one of those.

Phil: So that's since, obviously.

Tom: Yes, I think so.

Phil: I know Frostpunk is a more...

Phil: I've heard of that.

Phil: That's a more recent game that I've heard of.

Tom: Anomaly is in fact before This War of Mine.

Tom: But Frostpunk is indeed after it.

Tom: And that is a strategy game of sorts as well.

Tom: I think it's an RTS.

Phil: Okay, so probably nothing I'm interested in.

Tom: Potentially not.

Phil: Yeah, clicking through.

Phil: Actually, funny about my SimCity reference, it's a city building game.

Tom: Okay then.

Phil: So, yeah, I might check that out.

Phil: I've been known to like a few city sims over the years.

Phil: I think we can probably close the book again on This War of Mine.

Phil: And with that, I'll open the floor to you.

Phil: Is there any other games you want to talk about that you've been playing?

Tom: Well, I have still been playing Gran Turismo

Tom: And one thing I wanted to add that I think makes it so enjoyable is, I've talked about how excellent the physics engine is, but what makes it unique and enjoyable other than the fact that it translates so well to control is it's still a Gran Turismo game.

Tom: So you can still race in a bumper car style.

Tom: You can still do absurd track cuts that are massively to your advantage.

Tom: And that would be one area, I think, where the physics are not at all comparable to Sims is in things like where you end up off the track in the grass or in gravel and that sort of thing you have, I think, far too much control.

Tom: And you do not lose speed anywhere near enough or rather you lose speed so that your driving is controllable, as opposed to just careening off uncontrollably if it's slippery grass and completely stuffing up your race and that sort of thing.

Tom: But that makes it enjoyable because it does give you a super fun classic Gran Turismo ridiculous racing style game.

Tom: And one interesting thing they have is a clean race bonus, which raises the amount of credits you get at the end of each race by %.

Tom: So it's a substantial boost.

Tom: So if you attempt to drive in a non-Gran Turismo style of avoiding cars and avoiding cutting track limits and that sort of thing, you are rewarded for it.

Tom: So there is something to encourage normal driving, which there wasn't in Gran Turismo games up until Gran Turismo Sport.

Tom: But it's great that there is reward if you want to do that because that works very well with the new sim style of physics.

Tom: But it's also great that you have this wonderful combination of sim style physics with arcade style racing sensibilities, which is essentially what Forza Horizon has been, does, but in a totally different way and in a way that is to me much more enjoyable than having physics that are like a blend of the two in a ridiculously over the top presentation.

Phil: So in in video gaming, like I think for most people that play, you know, car games, racing games, you basically just press down the accelerator the whole way.

Phil: And then maybe there's an option to hold L to drift when you go around a corner, like a left trigger when you go around a corner sort of thing.

Tom: That would be Mario Kart.

Phil: That would be Mario Kart and many other games really as well.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And I would argue the same for, you know, Forza Horizon.

Phil: Like I didn't find to be particularly challenging in terms of, you know, it was really an arcade game.

Tom: Well, I've only played the last two of them, and it depends on what you set your assist settings to.

Tom: So if you leave them on default, that is the case.

Tom: If you turn off all the assists, that is not the case at all.

Phil: So the last ones that you played, I think the most recent ones were Australia and Mexico.

Phil: Is that right?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Is that Mexico one pretty spectacular?

Tom: Well, when I say I've played it, I mean, I booted the game up and drove several meters then stopped.

Phil: Several meters?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Then stopped?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Sounds like your bicycle experiences.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, yes.

Phil: All right.

Phil: So that's the default for Horizon.

Phil: So I've got to say my daughter is playing Mario Kart right now.

Tom: As we speak?

Phil: No.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Mario Kart

Tom: Excellent.

Phil: As we speak.

Phil: And she was having a lot of difficulty with it.

Phil: Well, she's very young.

Phil: So I put on the auto steering, but I made her still in charge of acceleration.

Phil: And I'm still afraid that this is giving her an inflated ego in terms of her abilities to play a video game.

Phil: But at this point, I'm just trying to encourage her.

Phil: She's learning the tracks and all the rest of it.

Phil: And then, you know, because if she just plays it by herself, she's just going to be discouraged and walk away from it.

Phil: But I can't help but feeling as a lifelong gamer that when she says, I want again, I want again, I want again, check me out, I just want again, I'm like, hmm.

Phil: Yeah, but, you know, because I don't know if you know, Mario Kart has these auto steering and auto acceleration options.

Tom: And you can turn both of them on?

Phil: You can turn both of them on and basically just put the system down and walk away from it.

Phil: And you're still going to place.

Tom: So you're just watching an AI race at that point?

Phil: Essentially, but, you know, for a little kid, I've basically just left for her, I've left the steering assist on and she still has to accelerate and brake.

Phil: And by brake, I mean not accelerate at certain times.

Phil: But, you know, you got to get them hooked.

Phil: You got to get them into the experience.

Tom: So have you tried playing like that yourself?

Phil: I haven't.

Phil: No.

Tom: We need your impressions on it.

Phil: Well, I'm pretty sure my impressions are going to be I put it down, I came back minutes later, and I came third.

Tom: So that would be better than you normally do?

Phil: No, not at all, not at all.

Phil: But I got to tell you that with Mario Kart, I was thoroughly into it.

Phil: I was really into it.

Phil: I was unlocking all this stuff.

Phil: I thought I was doing great.

Phil: And this is with obviously no assists on because I'm a tremendous gamer.

Phil: And then I was like, yeah, all right, fine.

Phil: Go online.

Phil: I'll show these chumps what it's about.

Phil: And I came th every single time.

Tom: I was surprised how well I've done in Mario Kart online because against the AI, I thought I was terrible, but I raced against Bugs, who has been competitive against gaming eek, who is supposedly good at it.

Tom: And I don't think he beat me once.

Tom: I had a similar experience with Tekken with Jamie of New Game Plus.

Tom: So I do not believe I'm good at either of those games, but against people who are not necessarily good at them, but have a reputation in smaller communities, maybe I'm not as bad as I think.

Phil: Does New Gaming Plus still have a podcast?

Tom: I don't know if they have a podcast.

Tom: I think the show is still going, though.

Phil: Yeah, I didn't think so.

Phil: Game Under Podcast, longest running.

Tom: On the Switch, Mario Kart

Tom: I have to say, I am surprised at how much I go back to that on and off.

Phil: Oh, yeah, it's a fantastic experience.

Phil: And when I don't want my daughter to use the Switch, I've given her the Wii U and said, hey, this is the new Switch.

Phil: You know, this is a Switch and she'll play Mario Kart on that.

Phil: And it looks just as good.

Phil: I mean, it looks really good.

Phil: They obviously know what they're doing over there.

Tom: For the record, the last New Game Plus podcast was in November

Phil: OK, so we are Australia's longest running video game podcast.

Phil: Confirmed.

Tom: Yet another one bites the dust.

Phil: Another one bites the dust.

Phil: And you know what?

Phil: I'm sorry to see them go.

Phil: If I'd known they existed.

Phil: So with Gran Turismo have you been online, playing online with it much at all?

Tom: Well, I do not have PlayStation Plus.

Tom: I don't believe that I can.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Fair enough.

Phil: Any other impressions of Gran Turismo before we close this out this week?

Tom: That's probably all there is to say on Gran Turismo other than that the campaign continues to be highly enjoyable for the previously stated reasons.

Tom: And so far, I'm personally not having a big issue with the amount of credits I'm getting.

Tom: It has thus far been more than enough for me to both upgrade and modify cars as I see fit by the occasional car as well.

Tom: But my interest in cars is potentially different to other people's.

Tom: The Suzuki Cappuccino was recently added to the used car dealership and became a meme on the internet.

Tom: As soon as I saw that, I knew immediately to buy it out of respect for the wonderful vehicle that that is.

Tom: So that would be one of my most anticipated cars to get in it, and it was only credits.

Tom: So there aren't many expensive cars that I'm particularly interested in so far.

Phil: Yeah, I agree with you.

Phil: I mean, like, my best experiences with Gran Turismo was basically buying my Mazda Miata that I had in real life, or MX-here in Australia, and then just basically pimping it out and taking it all the way through the game, as far as I could, at least.

Phil: So a Suzuki Cappuccino, is that like a Swift Junior, or I'm not familiar with this model?

Tom: That is a, I think it's a pretty, pretty sure it's categorized as a K car, and it is a convertible sports K car.

Tom: And there's three classic K sports cars.

Tom: One is the Suzuki Cappuccino, the other is the AutoZam A

Tom: I'm not sure what the lettering is exactly.

Tom: Maybe Zsomething like that, and the Honda Beat.

Tom: And those three cars are cult classics of them.

Tom: The Suzuki Cappuccino was actually imported into Australia in reasonably large numbers.

Tom: And I saw them in the Japanese in car importing dealerships that were all over the place on Victoria Street as a child.

Tom: So I am a big fan of them.

Tom: So as soon as I saw it, I knew to get it.

Phil: In my country, a K car is something completely different, which I'll let our audience look up.

Phil: I've actually driven a few K cars in my time.

Phil: And when I first moved to the States, my first car was a K car.

Phil: So, but completely different from what you're talking about.

Tom: Yes, basically the opposite.

Phil: Well, as always, this has been a tremendous pleasure.

Phil: And with that, we'll close out episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Thank you for joining us listeners.

Phil: Oh, and by the way, you can now join our Discord.

Phil: The easiest way of doing that is by going to gameunder.net.

Phil: And one of the top links on the top right hand side will enable you to add our, add you to our Discord server.

Phil: I can't say that we're going to be tremendously active there.

Phil: We use it to record.

Phil: And if we see you there, we'll probably drag you into a show.

Phil: But other than that, there's no reason.

Tom: Or you can listen live.

Phil: Or you can listen live, of course.

Phil: And who wouldn't want to, to this amazingness.

Tom: I like how Supreme joined the Discord, discovered we were recording it and promptly left.

Phil: And then turned off all ability to be notified when we were recording.

Phil: But yeah, some of the old crowds popped in there as well.

Phil: So it will be interesting one day to see who we can gather at a.m.

Phil: Eastern US time.

Phil: But yeah, thank you for this episode.

Phil: And we will catch you next time.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg.

Tom: I am Tom Towers.

Phil: Copy that floppy.

Tom: I am Tom Towers.

Phil: Copy that floppy.

Tom: I am Tom Towers.

Phil: Copy that floppy.

Tom: This would be how it works.

Tom: So it is kind of like Final Fantasy or Legion of the Groon.

Tom: Yes, well, I was going to say...

Tom: Legion of the Groon.

Tom: Both on PC and PC.

Tom: You are effectively a modern doctor.

Tom: Modern doctor.

Tom: Yep, absolutely.

Tom: And also...

Phil: Yes, you are quite right.

Phil: I am sorry.

Tom: Gift.

Tom: Repetition and lack of ideas.

Tom: That is a rare glitch.

Tom: I have probably had it a couple of times.

Tom: Repetition and lack of ideas.

Phil: I am sorry?

Tom: I think that is also a question of illiteracy, so to speak.

Game Under Podcast 143

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Show Timeline

0:00:04 Introduction

0:00:44 Max Payne 1 and 2 Remake

0:05:46 Tomb Raider Writer Reveals...

0:10:11 Tom Reviews COVID

0:24:20 Podcast Addict - Chapter Marks

0:26:37 Fever Talk

0:27:22 Tom Reviews Table Top Game Chocolate Monopoly

0:36:26 Phil Reviews Wall Street Kid for NES

0:50:13 Phil Reviews Detention

1:02:06 Phil Reviews Paw Patrol Games

1:08:20 Why You Should Play Kid Games

1:12:55 Sky (The Game from That Game Company)

1:29:17 Gran Turismo 7

1:44:28 Outro

Transcript
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast, recorded this Easter Monday on the th of April,

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I am joined, as ever, by the man known as the Easter Bunny of Queensland, Phil Fogg.

Phil: That is it.

Phil: And of course, everyone would know that this is actually episode because we posted episode

Phil: It was a shorty for Easter.

Tom: Well, you should know that my part of the show is scripted, so if you write in the notes, that's what I will mention.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, I'm pretty sure if it was written, it would have been a lot better than that.

Phil: But did you have a listen to episode our GTA bonus episode?

Tom: I probably did when we recorded it.

Phil: Yes, it was actually a segment from episode

Phil: It was actually a pre-intro.

Phil: So it was like minutes before we even got to the intro of episode when we recorded it.

Phil: But it was still interesting, coming up with the next Grand Theft Auto announcement pending.

Phil: I thought it was a good time to put that show up there since we didn't get an opportunity to record.

Tom: Was this the one with the rock texture impressions?

Phil: No, no, no, no.

Phil: This is basically going through every single Grand Theft Auto game up until the release of GTA V.

Phil: And you and I, and I think we should do this again, basically did our live impressions of watching the trailer.

Tom: I remember that.

Phil: Yeah, it was hilarious.

Tom: Unfortunately, we will never have the opportunity to do that again because there is never going to be another Grand Theft Auto game.

Phil: Well, they've said that one is, they're working on one.

Phil: So what that means, who knows?

Phil: So we will see.

Phil: I mean, at least we...

Tom: I think it will be a patch for Grand Theft Auto

Phil: Five?

Phil: One trailer we will perhaps be able to record our live impressions of is Max Payne.

Phil: It's a game that we've talked about and I think reviewed on the site.

Phil: Well, certainly we've reviewed Max Payne but which we can get into.

Tom: I believe we've reviewed all of them.

Tom: I think that was part of a trilogy.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Sounds right.

Phil: So Max Payne has been a part of this site for a long time.

Phil: Remedy, other people behind it.

Phil: And they did Alan Wake, they did Control, which I'm still downloading the patch to.

Phil: I actually got a warning from my ISP about it.

Phil: They didn't name Control specifically, but they said, you know, you've used up gig of your gig and you've got another days.

Phil: We're just saying, you know.

Phil: I might have to...

Tom: I think it might be due to the content of Control rather than the quantity of gigabytes.

Phil: Oh, no, well, they didn't mention Control specifically.

Tom: They didn't for plausible deniability.

Tom: But I think the subtext is you shouldn't be downloading potentially subversive media like that.

Phil: Is it subversive?

Phil: Have you played it?

Tom: Well, I assume it's probably positioning itself as being subversive when you are in an intelligence agency.

Tom: But like most such media than that, will probably end up being actually very much in support of the status quo.

Tom: But that's probably too much for an Australian ISP.

Phil: Did you just drop the term subsmurfive?

Tom: I think I said submersive.

Phil: OK, well, the show title is going to be subsmurfive anyway.

Phil: Remedy has announced that they're going to be doing full remakes of Max Payne and and putting them together into a single game.

Phil: And somehow they've managed to convince Rockstar, who owns the IP, I mean Remedy sold them the IP, and then they've come crying back to Rockstar, I imagine, saying, oh please, let us make our game again.

Phil: And guess what?

Phil: Rockstar said, not only are we going to let you make your game, we're going to publish it.

Phil: So Rockstar is, I mean, that's pretty cool, you know.

Phil: I mean, because Max Payne I don't think worked out very well for Rockstar.

Phil: So obviously, perhaps they have no interest in going back to it.

Phil: I just thought it was a pretty cool move on Rockstar's part to give up an IP that they own back to the originators to do what they want to do with.

Tom: Definitely.

Phil: Now what does it say about Remedy that they're going back to the well after having made Alan Wake and Control?

Tom: I think they're probably doing all right.

Tom: I think Control was somewhat successful, wasn't it?

Phil: Oh yeah, critically, certainly.

Tom: I think it's sold really well too.

Tom: So I think given they have made a new IP, they can probably return to an old one at this point.

Tom: If they went straight from Alan Wake to this, I think it would be saying, you would then be raising questions about their creativity.

Tom: But given that they did have control in between, I think it's alright.

Phil: I really want to go back and play Max Payne again.

Phil: All this talk about it has just made me relish.

Phil: And I really, we had a lot of fun with it.

Phil: I know that when we did an oral review for it.

Phil: But I'd love to go back to Max Payne right now and just sort of see if it's as good as I remember.

Phil: I think I played that on PlayStation

Tom: I think I had probably more fun discussing it than playing it from what I can remember.

Phil: Certainly the case.

Phil: I do remember a good scene on a football field though, a football pitch.

Tom: I think that featured some necklacing, didn't it?

Phil: Yes, the stadium level, yes, yeah.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, you know, this stuff goes around and around and around.

Phil: I mean Tomb Raider has been, a new game is going to come out for Tomb Raider.

Phil: And I wanted to learn more about it.

Phil: And so went on the Internet and I saw an article that was titled Tomb Raider writer reveals what she wants from new game.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: So I'm like, hey, so who actually is writing it?

Phil: You know, Tomb Raider writer reveals what she wants from the new game.

Tom: I think it's Terry Pratchett's daughter, isn't it?

Phil: I don't know who Terry Pratchett is, but Rihanna Pratchett is.

Tom: That would be his daughter then.

Phil: Who is Terry Pratchett?

Phil: Is he a British Prime Minister?

Tom: I think he was an English author of fantasy comedy novels, among other things.

Phil: Oh, like a Douglas Adams type thing?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Okay, all right.

Phil: Well, I won't hold that against him, I guess.

Tom: But certainly not as bad as Douglas Adams.

Tom: I actually read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy recently.

Tom: Which among gaming forums, is held up as one of the greatest novels of the th century, I would say.

Tom: And let's just say, it's probably one of the most disappointing novels I have read in my life.

Phil: Oh, come on.

Phil: I mean, I completely agree with you, but you've read a lot of novels.

Phil: You know what it is?

Phil: When I was going to school, we had a thing called Scholastic, where you could buy these books, you know.

Phil: The BBC has actually been really good about making these tangential pieces that go along with their TV shows.

Phil: So, for example, When the Young Ones was a big show, they'd have The Young Ones sort of a jokey kind of book that you get, you know, a kid's guide to The Young Ones or something.

Phil: You know, BBC has always been really good about putting out these adjuncts to their major media properties.

Phil: And Douglas Adams' book seemed to me to be like a jokey kind of, oh, this Monty Python scene was so funny, we've written a whole book about it.

Phil: It never seemed to me like it was properly written.

Phil: It seemed to be a commercial enterprise to cash in on something that was much funnier, but perhaps you shouldn't have written a whole novel about it.

Tom: I think that is a very accurate description of it.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So anyway, his daughter, Rihanna Pratchett.

Phil: Are you sure Terry Pratchett's not the manager of Manchester United?

Phil: It could just be Pratchett.

Phil: It sounds so British.

Phil: In any case, I read through this whole story.

Phil: I get to the final paragraph, right, after she goes on and on about, oh, Lara, you know, he's a strong woman, you know.

Phil: Oh, I want to see her strike out on her own and take joy.

Phil: You get to the final paragraph.

Phil: Pratchett has confirmed that she isn't working on this entry, but is excited to see what Crystal Dynamics comes up with.

Tom: Well, that's why we're hearing what she wants for it, not what she's doing.

Phil: It's bullcrap.

Phil: Tomb Raider writer reveals what she wants from New Game.

Phil: This is bullcrap.

Phil: comicbook.com, if that's your real URL.

Phil: And it is.

Phil: Anyway.

Phil: So anyway...

Tom: What's wrong with that headline?

Tom: She wrote Tomb Raider.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: And she's revealing what she wants for the New Game.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: I don't see the problem.

Phil: But they go through...

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: You're just trolling me now.

Phil: In any case, I thought that was bullcrap.

Phil: Especially when, like, there's so few video game news, actual writing going on, I should not have fallen for it.

Phil: I'm amazed that Square is going back to Tomb Raider.

Phil: And I'm glad that Crystal Dynamics is actually working on it because their Avengers game hasn't been a huge success.

Phil: They actually didn't have anything to do with the third Tomb Raider remake.

Phil: Did you know that?

Phil: Not the remake, but the reboot.

Tom: Crystal Dynamics, correct.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Tom: I think that's one of the reasons it was good.

Phil: Oh, you liked the third one.

Tom: The third one?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I thought they didn't have anything to do with any of them.

Phil: No, no, they did the first two.

Phil: They did the first two.

Tom: I think I've only played the first one.

Phil: Tomb Raider

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Which was good, and the second one was okay, not great.

Phil: And the third one was not as...

Phil: anyway.

Phil: Is there anything you want to talk about in this unofficial trademark banner that's really actually covering news section?

Tom: Well, I think we should mention the reason that we did not record last week was due to a medical emergency.

Phil: Yes, I had hay fever.

Tom: In addition to that, while you were out with the hay fever, a particularly nasty case, as we just heard, I managed to finally catch coronavirus after, I think, is it three years now?

Phil: You went around snogging homeless guys for like three years trying to get coronavirus, and then you finally get it when it's not cool to get it anymore.

Tom: Correct.

Tom: And I was all into it.

Tom: I had three vaccine doses, which I think are pretty much equivalent to pre-order bonuses when it comes to coronavirus.

Tom: And it still took that long.

Phil: Did you get the steel box?

Tom: No, I didn't, but I did get several rapid antigen tests.

Tom: Which I think are worth a lot more money than steel box pre-order packages.

Tom: I did better there, I think.

Phil: Okay, so what do you think of Covid?

Phil: I mean, the story obviously was meandering.

Phil: In terms of its guttural impact on you, the visceral impact, if you will, to use a game review cliche, how did it go?

Phil: I mean, I'm not going to ask you to score it.

Tom: Well, I think we will have to whip out the die of destiny when we get to the end of the impressions, though.

Phil: How did it start?

Phil: First of all, is it first person, third person?

Tom: It's first person, but it then very quickly becomes second person, then third person, and so on and so forth.

Phil: Well, yes, because it spreads so quickly.

Tom: Yes, exactly.

Tom: But you have to take into account, I think, the number of vaccine doses and the third one was a few months ago.

Tom: So I think on average, if you were fully vaccinated, it's meant to reduce the severity of it about tenfold to the level of a flu, which I believe you have had a case of actual flu in the past.

Phil: Yes, I have.

Phil: My realtor gave it to me as a thanks for buying the house gift.

Phil: She came over and she said, I know I shouldn't be coming over.

Phil: I just bought these flowers for you, but you know, I've got the flu, but I just want to thank you.

Phil: And I was like, yeah, okay.

Phil: Because, you know, growing up in Australia, people say the flu, they mean a cold, right?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Oh, I've got the flu.

Phil: But it's like no, influenza is serious.

Phil: It's a very serious illness.

Phil: And basically, yeah, it transformed my world for about three days.

Phil: And at first, I was so sick that I couldn't go to work.

Phil: And anyone who knows me knows that being sick is not an excuse for not going to work.

Phil: I work.

Phil: It's what I do.

Phil: My life is defined by it.

Phil: And I was like, oh, wow, this is cool.

Phil: I am so sick.

Phil: I actually can't work.

Phil: I'll go downstairs and play video games.

Phil: But then I was so sick, I couldn't walk downstairs and play video games.

Phil: I was like, no, I'm not at work, so I must play video games.

Phil: And basically, I somehow managed to go downstairs and started having hallucinations.

Phil: Yeah, not a good scene.

Tom: Were they better or worse than games, these hallucinations?

Phil: Oh, they were terrifying.

Phil: And from people who I've talked to who have had bad trips, you know, the paranoia trips type thing, it was kind of like that.

Phil: But wait, we were talking about you, man, Covid.

Tom: Yes, well, we're getting a gauge of how bad or not so bad it might be, given that vaccines are meant to reduce it to a similar level of severity to the flu.

Tom: And we do have to add that the flu, as you said in Australia, when we say the flu, we generally mean a cold that is worse than average, but is probably still a cold.

Tom: But the flu, like a cold or like coronavirus, actually comes in a range of severities as well.

Tom: So you can actually have the flu and be completely asymptomatic or have the flu and it be equivalent to a mild cold.

Tom: So as with all sorts of viruses, there is a great range of how it actually ends up affecting you.

Tom: And I think the symptoms began on approximately Wednesday or Thursday.

Tom: And I did a test on Thursday because I had a meeting the next day.

Tom: And rapid tests are apparently not very accurate, as the result was negative.

Tom: But the next day after the symptoms rapidly got worse, essentially immediately after the meeting, I thought I may as well do another test the day after, when they continue getting worse.

Tom: And at that point it was positive, so I did another test as well.

Tom: At this point, the symptoms were probably equivalent to, I would say, a medium level cold, so a reasonable fever and a low level of nausea.

Tom: By the next day, the fever was significantly worse and the nausea was probably a little bit more severe, but I was also extremely dizzy if I was standing up or moving around.

Tom: So at that point it was probably equivalent to, I would say, probably a high level cold, not the most severe colds I've had, which would probably be getting in the realm of a medium to low level case of the flu.

Tom: But nevertheless, the fever and the runniness of my nose, which was so bad I had to lie down during the night with several tissues under my nose.

Tom: The entire time was bad enough that I could not sleep that night, which is at the upper level of what I would say cold symptoms for flus or congestion are.

Tom: At this point, there was no symptoms of coughing or anything like that at all.

Tom: And the next day, the fever immediately improved drastically and gradually improved over the next few days.

Tom: At which point, there were not very many symptoms at all.

Tom: And then the next day, the cough began, which was very mild to begin with and gradually got over the day progressively worse and worse to the point where that night the coughing was bad enough that I was unable to sleep.

Tom: And I've had quite a few different chest infections over my life.

Tom: And that I would probably put at probably a medium level one.

Tom: It wasn't particularly severe, bad enough for one night that I couldn't sleep, but I was still able to take deep breaths.

Tom: My lungs did not feel particularly heavy.

Tom: And it was a lot closer to something like asthma where it's extremely annoying, but unless the attack is really, really bad to the point where your throat is swollen enough that you're in danger of choking, it isn't actually that debilitating other than the actual coughing fits or a longer period of reduced oxygen intake as a result of it.

Tom: Whereas a bad chest infection where you've got a lot of congestion is extremely debilitating because you can't breathe properly at any point and if your lungs are full of phlegm, it makes you extremely weak as well.

Tom: The fever did make me...

Tom: did have a pretty weakening effect, but so far, not the coughing.

Tom: So after one night of pretty annoying coughing, enough that I was unable to sleep, again, improved, and since then, the symptoms have been going up and down, and it has been probably about a week and a half.

Tom: So there were two parts of it that were relatively severe, not even close to the worst sorts of viruses that I've had, but notable enough, certainly above average.

Tom: And two, though, I think the most interesting thing about it has been the way in which the symptoms go up and down and the longevity of it, because for a medium level symptoms, like I've had to the lower level, lower end of high just on those two days, for that, for me to have continued symptoms and for it to be effective now after about a week and a half of symptoms or a bit over a week and a half is pretty out of the ordinary as well and very much unlike most viruses I've had that have that level of severity.

Tom: And the way in which the symptoms have gone up and down is also very much like any other sort of virus I've had as well.

Phil: Well, I think it's courageous that you're recording the podcast while suffering with Covid.

Tom: Well, I actually made sure to record a song on the second day of worst coughing symptoms to take advantage of the voice and coughing because with the group I'm in with Arnie, we recorded a coronavirus themed song previously with some coughing in it that was not genuine coronavirus coughing.

Tom: So we could not pass up the opportunity to do the authentic version as well.

Phil: Well, for whatever reason, I'm thinking of you coughing once and then just putting that into the synth and doing one of those barking dog Christmas carols.

Phil: Arf, arf, arf, arf, arf.

Phil: That's probably way ahead of me in terms of artistic expression in that regard, I'm sure.

Phil: But the inconsistent...

Phil: So what you're telling me, the plot has been kind of inconsistent, it's been up and down, it hasn't been...

Phil: And that's unusual, your reaction to it.

Phil: But just to bring it back to me again, and I'm just only bringing this up because it might help you as well.

Phil: While I was using all those tissue boxes to stuff my nose when I had the hay fever the other day, for whatever stupid reason it occurred to me that a Carolina Reaper hot pepper would distract my body to the extent that it would stop having a hay fever reaction.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: And so I don't have access to a Carolina Reaper, but I do have access to a Carolina Reaper chili sauce.

Phil: And so I had a tablespoon of that, and my body did not have any of the hay fever symptoms for about an hour afterwards that I could discern.

Tom: What were the symptoms your body did have though?

Phil: Profuse sweating, the inability to taste, and the ability to taste colors actually.

Tom: That reminds me actually, the day after the bad fever night, it took me about two hours to eat breakfast.

Tom: And because this is a symptom that I sometimes have from ME, I only realized in hindsight that the only part of the breakfast I was eating that I could taste, which contributed to the difficulty in eating it.

Tom: So I did also lose the majority of my sense of taste at some point as well.

Phil: That doesn't surprise me at all, because it usually takes you two hours to eat your dinner while we record our podcast.

Tom: I'm currently eating.

Phil: Two hours for breakfast, that's nothing.

Phil: Now I'm coughing.

Phil: Okay, so you're going to give this coronavirus a score?

Tom: Well, the one thing I will add is overall it's probably a medium level sort of thing.

Tom: So not too bad.

Tom: But that's with the vaccine.

Tom: I would say if the vaccine is as effective as advertised, I would certainly want to avoid it, to say the least.

Tom: But we will give it a score based on the post-vaccine experience.

Phil: It's kind of like playing a game, or seeing a movie you've already got the trailer.

Phil: It's going to have a diminished impact on you when you see it, I guess.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: It gets a out of

Tom: So a big flop, I'm afraid to say.

Phil: A massive flop for Coronavirus.

Phil: They needed a better name, honestly.

Phil: Like AIDS.

Tom: HIV has been pretty disappointing since they changed the name to that.

Phil: It has.

Phil: It's far less impactful, unfortunately.

Tom: I would say that is easily a fair score.

Tom: I think we said there were sleepless nights.

Tom: I think the worst virus I had, rather than sleepless nights, had me asleep for about weeks.

Tom: So I think out of if we're going for serious viruses, I think it maybe is too much for coronavirus.

Phil: Well, not to mention that the launch was delayed by years.

Phil: I mean, you were supposed to have gotten it years ago, and you would have thought...

Tom: Maybe that raised my expectations too high.

Phil: Too high, yeah.

Phil: Well, look, before we exit trademark banner and get into games, I did want to mention, if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably already listening on a podcast player.

Phil: I recently upgraded to a podcast player called Podcast Addict, and it is absolutely fantastic.

Phil: It has features, unbelievable list of features that can help you.

Phil: And one of the features that we have is our shows now have chapter marks.

Phil: So if you're using a podcast player, because of our notes, if there's a section that you don't particularly like, you can just press the skip button.

Phil: It'll take you straight to the next chapter.

Phil: And obviously, I don't think any of our listeners are going to use that because everything we talk about is interesting.

Phil: But and it is interesting that I managed to speak about this after our coronavirus impressions.

Phil: But yeah, it's a cool thing.

Phil: So I encourage everyone to go to or look up podcast directory and look at the different players that are there.

Phil: They're all free and they have a lot more features.

Tom: Can you speed up podcasts beyond double speed?

Phil: Yeah, you can even do whatever you want.

Phil: And then even beyond double speed.

Phil: And one of the features of Podcast Attic I like is that there is a skip silence mode.

Phil: So it basically can just carve out the silences and it doesn't noticeably impact the listening quality of a show.

Phil: If you want to keep it at regular speed, but just save some of the pauses, it will do that for you.

Tom: Is this your excuse for no longer editing the show properly?

Phil: I do edit the show properly.

Tom: So you won't need that feature when you're listening to us.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: That's exactly right.

Phil: Okay, so you want to get into some games or should we just end the podcast now?

Tom: Well, we did cover coronavirus.

Tom: So everyone will now be just skipping to the end using this wonderful feature.

Phil: I love fevers.

Phil: I've only had a few fevers in my life and I think fevers are great.

Phil: I don't know what people have a problem with fevers.

Tom: What do you enjoy about fevers?

Phil: The endless sweating, the uncertainty as to whether you're going to die or not.

Phil: It's kind of a thrill.

Phil: It's like, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Phil: No, I'm just really hot.

Phil: You know, I like it.

Phil: It is suspenseful.

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: You've already shared all of your experiences.

Tom: Do you also enjoy saunas?

Phil: I can tell you that I liked jacuzzis.

Phil: And I liked being in there way too long with the temperature way too high.

Phil: Going, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Phil: I also like driving very fast cars.

Phil: Going, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Tom: Do you have the heater on when you're driving them?

Phil: I do, actually.

Phil: I like to put the heater up to the highest level.

Phil: Regardless of the season.

Phil: I also like jumping out of planes.

Phil: Going, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Tom: That sounds like it will be a cold experience, though.

Phil: Okay, so anyway, on to games.

Tom: Let's go for the biggest one first.

Tom: Because I just remembered I played this.

Tom: That is Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: I thought you were going to go to one of my games.

Tom: No.

Tom: They're going for Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: Is this your rant about Cadbury?

Phil: Or Hershey?

Tom: I assume you're familiar with the board game Monopoly.

Phil: I am, yes.

Phil: It's got the dude.

Phil: And he doesn't have a monocle.

Phil: He doesn't have a monocle, does he?

Phil: I think that's the thing that blew my mind.

Phil: Someone one day was like, he doesn't have a monocle.

Tom: I don't think he does.

Phil: Mr.

Phil: Moneybags or Moneypenny or whatever his name is.

Phil: I'm a big fan of that guy.

Tom: He's got a moustache.

Tom: Do people associate a monocle with him?

Phil: Well, I think they're thinking about Mr.

Phil: Peanut.

Phil: For Australians not aware of Mr.

Phil: Peanut, I'd suggest you do an image search now.

Phil: I think they do a mishmash and they basically go, well, any rich like snooty guy has a monocle and a top hat, which the Monopoly guy does have a top hat, right?

Tom: He does and a moustache.

Phil: Yeah, and he's rotund.

Tom: Correct.

Phil: But no cane?

Phil: Does he have a cane?

Tom: Yes, he does.

Tom: Though I think it depends on the depiction of him.

Phil: And he shares that with Mr.

Phil: Peanut.

Phil: Mr.

Phil: Peanut is a peanut with legs, top hat, monocle and a cane.

Tom: Who has the greater net worth?

Phil: Well, Big Peanut.

Phil: I mean, Monopoly dude, he lets you buy the stuff.

Phil: He's not even a proper monopolist.

Phil: You know, he's got all those train stations and such what.

Tom: But not enough to be a monopolist.

Phil: No, but Monopoly is great.

Phil: Everyone loves Monopoly.

Tom: Yes, well, I think I have played Monopoly at some point, but I never, I do not actually have any memory in detail of playing Monopoly.

Tom: And in the chocolate version of Monopoly, the instruction booklet...

Phil: Wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry.

Phil: I'm totally cutting you off.

Phil: I'm sorry.

Phil: This is ridiculous.

Phil: But do you know how Monopoly was made?

Phil: It was an indie game.

Tom: Was it originally an indie game?

Phil: It was an indie game.

Phil: It was one dude during the Depression who basically designed the game using his wife's tablecloth.

Phil: They were poor.

Phil: And he's like, you know, everyone's poor.

Phil: Wouldn't you want to play a game about these really aspirational things?

Phil: It's kind of like the ultimate power fantasy of

Phil: And so he took his wife's tablecloth.

Tom: I thought Hitler was the ultimate power fantasy of

Phil: That's funny.

Phil: And so they had a square like the card table as a kitchen table and they had the tablecloth.

Phil: And he basically drew, you know, all the squares on there and came up with the game and formulated it.

Phil: So it was a one man, auteur, indie game, tabletop experience.

Phil: Probably much like Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

Phil: Another, you know, pinnacle of tabletop gaming.

Phil: And he totally came up with it.

Phil: And the fact that, you know, we're still playing it like a hundred years later here in is incredible.

Phil: And of course now it's just a cheesy cash in where you've got all these stupid versions of Monopoly like Nintendo Monopoly.

Tom: Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: Nigel Farage Monopoly.

Phil: You know, Steam.

Tom: I think that's, is that the new Hitler edition?

Tom: The Nigel Farage Monopoly?

Phil: Steam Monopoly.

Phil: You know.

Phil: So anyway, you're playing this chocolate.

Phil: So is it made of chocolate or is it just about chocolate?

Tom: The money in it is chocolate.

Tom: Well, not the money.

Tom: There's two currencies you have.

Tom: One is money.

Tom: And then you also have chocolate pieces.

Tom: And the person with the most chocolate pieces at the end is the winner, rather than the person with the most money, which I assume is how normal monopoly works.

Phil: Is money not fungible and transferable into chocolate?

Tom: No.

Phil: I mean, it is in real life.

Tom: Is it?

Tom: You can go to the bank and trade, and trading your money for, sorry, trading your chocolate for money?

Phil: No.

Phil: Profoundly, you can go into the grocery store and exchange your money for chocolate.

Tom: Well, that would be the reverse.

Tom: You said is the chocolate not transferable to money?

Phil: It, oh, okay.

Phil: Yep, it's not.

Phil: You're right.

Phil: You can't go into a bank and deposit chocolate.

Phil: Well, you could, but security is probably going to take you out if you started to just deposit chocolate onto their floors.

Tom: In any case, the game has a wheel which you spin, which lands on different types of property and colours.

Tom: There's also a in the corner, an area where you get a certain amount of money each round.

Tom: Now, the instructions do not mention anything about pieces on the board or how you navigate the board.

Tom: It merely mentions how the spinning mechanism works.

Tom: It doesn't mention how the purchasing property mechanic works or how to distribute money or anything like that.

Tom: So essentially, unless you've already played Monopoly, how the game works is not explained whatsoever.

Tom: Additionally, if you have played Monopoly, how the spinning mechanic relates to navigating the board isn't explained.

Tom: So, the people who I was playing the game with, we essentially had to invent the rules ourselves.

Tom: And the result was a serviceable version of Monopoly combining this new spinning mechanic with navigation of the board using in fact the die of destiny.

Tom: And essentially using the chocolate solely as a way of scoring.

Tom: Now, the one issue with the game other than the nonsensical rules was also the chocolate because you would not necessarily want to be winning this chocolate that was contained within chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: Oh no.

Phil: Because it's still all stanky sitting in a store chocolate, right?

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: With I would say maybe % cocoa.

Tom: And probably % sugar.

Tom: So it's mildly sweet, vaguely chocolate textured edible supposedly edible substance.

Phil: Yeah, if you want to play Monopoly, I mean you can pick it up for PlayStation or amazingly.

Phil: I have the PlayStation version.

Phil: And it's actually pretty good.

Phil: I recall playing Monopoly on the fairly regularly.

Phil: And I'm amazed that it's not more...

Phil: I'm sure there's a mobile version.

Phil: But I've always been amazed by when I've gone to play a Monopoly game on a video game console or PC, how not crap it is.

Phil: Because you know, you don't have to line up a whole bunch of other people to play with.

Phil: It goes a lot quickly.

Phil: Because the biggest problem with the tabletop game is the pacing of Monopoly.

Phil: I think it's pretty incredible that you had to come up with your own rules.

Phil: So you managed to assemble a group of people that had never played Monopoly before and didn't know the rules.

Phil: You roll the die, you advance, you buy properties.

Phil: There's community chance or something, community chest, and then there's chance cards.

Phil: You go to jail.

Phil: You do not pass go.

Phil: You pass go, you collect $

Tom: And the jail mechanic.

Tom: Which I think is wholly unrealistic for a game in which you are playing a monopolist.

Phil: That you would actually go to jail, yes.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Phil: So do we have to roll the die of Destiny?

Tom: I think we do have to roll the die of Destiny.

Phil: Now, is this a branded?

Phil: Obviously with the crap chocolate that's in there.

Phil: This isn't branded.

Phil: This isn't Hershey.

Tom: This is branded.

Tom: This is branded.

Phil: But who's the chocolate brand associated with it?

Tom: Oh, I don't know what the chocolate brand was.

Phil: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Tom: It was Monopoly branded.

Tom: Right.

Tom: I don't think the chocolate company that was involved put their name to it.

Phil: No, I wouldn't think so.

Phil: It's just for people who are sickly addicted to chocolate.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: How did you come across this game, Tom?

Tom: A friend of my sister gave it to her.

Tom: So I am blameless.

Phil: Very good.

Tom: It gets a out of

Tom: So even worse than coronavirus.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Phil: I just wrote down that score and I saw the notes, Carolina Reapers.

Phil: Doesn't the Carolina Reapers sound like a college basketball team?

Tom: Yes, it does.

Phil: They have a kick-ass logo too, you know, the Reaper of Death, Death Reaper with the scythe.

Phil: Alright, well into games.

Phil: I mean, other than our tabletop games.

Phil: We need to get into real games.

Tom: I think you have been playing a similar money-making fantasy game.

Phil: It is a fantastic game.

Phil: Now, we were talking about emulation last week in episode

Phil: And Tom, you suggested that I could actually download games that I don't own so that basically emulation isn't just for legal backups of games that you own, but that you could also go and download a game that you don't own and play it on an emulator.

Phil: And I had to check this out just for our historical accuracy.

Tom: Research purposes.

Phil: Yeah, research purposes and for the show.

Phil: And actually, I was surprised.

Phil: There was not a lot of barriers of entry to me downloading a game that I didn't own.

Phil: So we are famous here for reviewing work simulators or job simulators.

Phil: And that's why you said, hey, go download Wall Street Kid, which I did.

Phil: It was released for the Nintendo Entertainment System in

Phil: And it was published by Sofel.

Phil: I don't know if they made it, but they released it in the US.

Phil: Sofel.

Phil: It was released in Japan as The Money Game which was a sequel.

Phil: Do you wish to guess what The Money Game was a sequel to?

Tom: Was it a sequel to The Money Game?

Phil: Oh, correct.

Phil: So you've heard of Kabachu Chou no Kinseki.

Phil: So this game is incredible.

Phil: So basically the premise is a lawyer comes up to you and says that you have inherited, you know, $billion, which is great because it's like, no, that's still a lot of money.

Phil: It's still only a quarter of what Elon Musk wants to buy Twitter for, but still $billion is a lot of money.

Phil: It's not like...

Tom: Probably also about a quarter of what he inherited as well.

Phil: Well, yeah, that's the thing.

Phil: The catch is they will give you $

Phil: You have to turn it into $million in a certain period of time in order to inherit the whole swag.

Phil: So your dead rich uncle is making you earn it by giving you half a million dollars that you've got to turn into a million dollars.

Phil: Now, the first thing that would occur to me to do would be to go to Vegas and put it on Red.

Phil: But he doesn't.

Tom: I was wondering if you'd mention that because Softball also developed Casino Kid.

Phil: Okay, so they might have a whole range of kid related shows.

Tom: It appears that they might, or games rather.

Phil: The best part about this is that when he gets to the premise, like he sets it up, the dude says, Oh, by the way, have a great April Fool's Day.

Phil: But remember, everything I just told you is no April Fool's joke.

Phil: Good luck.

Phil: I mean, that is fantastic.

Phil: That is completely superfluous and unnecessary writing.

Phil: And the whole time I'm playing it, I'm going, so am I going to, am I going to get to the end of this?

Phil: And then you're like, fuck you.

Phil: This is an April Fool's joke.

Phil: It's brilliant.

Phil: It's just brilliant writing.

Phil: Oh, one last thing, by the way.

Tom: Maybe that's the bad ending.

Phil: Or the true ending, because at the same time this film, this game was coming out, there was that film, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, about two rich Wall Street guys betting on, you know, effing up two people's lives, you know.

Phil: And yeah, it was great.

Phil: So now to get to the grist of the game, you then thrust into a setting that would be familiar to anyone who has played what was my game of the year several years ago, Papers, Please, by Lucas Pope.

Phil: Basically, you've got a desk, and on that desk is a limited number of things that you can click on.

Phil: So they have a Apple II computer.

Phil: They have a thing that I don't really know what it is, but maybe it's a telephone or something because it's your outside link to the rest of the world.

Phil: And there's a newspaper and there's a clock.

Phil: If you click on the clock, you can advance to the next day, much like you could in Papers, Please.

Phil: So if you're satisfied.

Phil: What was that other game that we played about the Hotel Dude?

Phil: It was a work simulator.

Tom: The Hotel Dude?

Phil: Yeah, you were working as a Hotel Dude.

Phil: Anyway, you'll figure that out.

Phil: We played lots of it.

Phil: In any case, you can advance the game to the next day.

Phil: And so you sit down, you've got a day and you've got a certain number of days before you can...

Phil: a certain number of days before you have to get up to a million dollars.

Phil: So you read the newspaper, just like you could in papers, please, and that would tell you what was going on in the outside world.

Tom: I'm just going to interrupt you there.

Tom: Is that hotel in the public house sense of Australia?

Phil: No, no, no, motel.

Tom: By which you mean bars.

Phil: No, motel, motel.

Phil: We talked about it quite a bit.

Tom: What were you pondering then?

Phil: It was a D artwork.

Phil: You were dead.

Phil: You were like owning a motel type thing.

Tom: That's the death and taxes game.

Phil: Yeah, that's it.

Tom: I don't think you were owning it.

Tom: You were living in it.

Phil: You were living in it, but you had a desk and you could click on it.

Tom: But I don't think you were running the hotel.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: Well, you were.

Phil: You were working there.

Tom: No, you were living there.

Tom: You were running the deaths in the world.

Phil: Oh, that's right.

Phil: Well, obviously, it was a very memorable game.

Phil: So back to this one.

Phil: You have an actual desktop.

Phil: And so the newspaper will say what's going on in the world.

Phil: And then basically Wall Street Kid, you're trading stocks.

Phil: And then so it's really cool because the people that localized this made the companies that you're trading in similar to real world companies.

Phil: So instead of Boeing, it's Boeing.

Phil: Instead of Caterpillar, it's Centipede.

Phil: Instead of Kaufman and Broad, it's Kaufman, like C-O-U-A-G-H.

Phil: Marinat, Pan Mam, Ratel toys, like a rattle instead of Mattel.

Phil: Re-Bucks, Charles Shlob, Strayhound instead of Greyhound.

Phil: I could go on.

Phil: But what was interesting to me is they're saying, hey, these are the hot stocks.

Phil: But I kind of was doing this.

Phil: The reason why I failed the first round through was because I was doing the site analysis going, oh, I know that Re-Bucks is not going to win the fight with Nike, so I'm going to short them.

Phil: And I know that Pan Am, as an airline, is going to go out of business, so I'm going to short them, even though they're telling me that it's a hot stock.

Phil: You can, I say gamble, you can invest in YBM or Yapple.

Phil: And I'm like, oh, well, clearly, YBM is going to have short term gain, but then ultimately going to fail.

Phil: And I'm going to invest in Xerox instead.

Phil: So it is an actual shares game.

Phil: You can buy and sell shares.

Phil: You have a set amount of money.

Phil: And if you follow the stock tips in the paper, you'll actually win.

Phil: But I was kind of reading between the lines in the stock tips.

Phil: All you really need to do is buy the hot stocks that they tell you to buy.

Phil: So that's the key part of the game.

Phil: But the side story is you've also got this woman who you have to keep on the line and try and impress her.

Phil: So if you say something like, hey, do you want to go to the park?

Phil: And she'll say something like, are you crazy?

Phil: Haven't you read the paper?

Phil: You know, there's a mad man going through killing everyone in the park.

Phil: So that's where the newspaper comes into it as well.

Phil: And so you've got to keep, I mean, it's a very sensitive game in terms of the feminist ideal.

Phil: If you spend a lot of money...

Tom: Being killed in a park.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: I'm saying, like, if you spend a lot of money on this person or take her to shopping, then she will like you more.

Phil: You can take her for picnics when there isn't a crazy man in the park.

Phil: Or you can work out.

Phil: You can decide not to do other things and will say, hey, yeah, working out.

Phil: That's, you know, that's good for your mental, you know, head space as well.

Phil: Go ahead and work out.

Phil: Come back to work later.

Phil: So, yeah, as a work simulator, I haven't done the research yet, but I'm now going to look up, you know, Lucas Pope and Wall Street Kid to see how much that influenced him for Papers, Please, because this is very clearly a prototype of Papers, Please, which radically changes, you know, it blows my mind.

Phil: Does it blow your mind?

Tom: I don't think I've heard it compared to it anywhere else.

Phil: Yeah, I'm really going to have to look into it because this is it.

Phil: I mean, this is Papers, Please.

Phil: It doesn't have the political satire, but it does have Mad Magazine type parody of these companies.

Phil: And these companies, the parody is very close.

Phil: Like they have descriptions of these companies that is exactly what the original companies were all about in a jokey kind of way.

Phil: Yeah, so it's a very smart comment on Wall Street and basically privilege.

Phil: And I just absolutely love this game.

Phil: I think it has a password system, so it's not got the mod cons of gaming.

Phil: But this could certainly be converted to a mobile interface or anything like it.

Phil: It's not a big game.

Phil: It's not something that you pay $for.

Tom: And you are emulating it, so you can use save states and other various things.

Phil: Yeah, you can, and I realized that after I'd gone through the first one.

Phil: I had failed hopelessly.

Phil: I think in the first go through, I'd only raised $

Phil: And they do not give you a pat on the head in a participation medal.

Phil: They're like, no, you're fucked up, like we gave you a half million dollars.

Phil: How hard is this?

Phil: And the humor, yeah, the humor is there.

Phil: The game play is there.

Phil: And I actually found myself, I came into this like, oh, this is a joke review I've got to do for Tom.

Phil: But like before I knew it, I'd already played it for like an hour and a half and was wanting to play more.

Phil: So yeah, I thoroughly recommend Wall Street Kid.

Phil: And I don't know if there's been any newer versions of it.

Phil: I didn't really do any research for it outside of my review, but I'm prepared to give it a score without the Die of Destiny.

Tom: Please do.

Phil: If you can write down your estimate as to what score I will give it.

Tom: My guess is an out of

Phil: Well, you're supposed to write it down.

Phil: I am going to give it an out of

Tom: So I was correct.

Phil: Yeah, I was toying with Les because as a modern game, it's practically unplayable almost.

Phil: But the raw elements are so wonderful and great that it deserves a out of

Phil: It's held back by the time it was released,

Phil: Gosh, that's like years ago or something, isn't it?

Phil: Even more, years ago.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Yeah, so yeah, a fantastic time to revisit Wall Street Kid.

Tom: I think I may need to emulate it myself.

Tom: It sounds exceptionally fascinating.

Phil: Oh, it's fascinating.

Phil: Yeah, it is fascinating.

Phil: It's kind of like if you could find a prototype of Doom, you know, years before Doom came out, you know, or it's just incredible.

Phil: It blew my mind away.

Phil: It blew me away.

Phil: Are you familiar with the expression moist towelette?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Are you familiar with the expression moist towelette?

Tom: Probably the internet.

Phil: Oh, really?

Phil: Because a moist towelette is something that you would get from, like, KFC.

Phil: So usually back in the...

Tom: I'm familiar both with what a moist towelette is and also the term.

Phil: Well, why the internet?

Phil: You haven't seen a moist towelette in your real life?

Tom: I have, but you said the term as in someone might refer to someone or something as a moist towelette.

Phil: Just what a moist towelette is.

Tom: So you mean am I familiar with a moist towelette, not the term?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Because my kid's watching a show called PJ Mask, and there's a character in there called Owlette, and whenever I hear that, I just think, oh, I call it a moist towelette, you know, like if Owlette was to get wet, she'd be a moist towelette.

Phil: It's...

Phil: I'm just saying, I'm just reporting the facts.

Tom: Yes, you are.

Phil: And with that, I think you have another game you want to talk about other than Wall Street Kid.

Tom: So I think another interesting game, maybe not quite as interesting as Wall Street Kid, but nevertheless interesting, that I've played is Detention, which is a Taiwanese game, originally released in I think, and it is basically a side-scrolling horror adventure game.

Tom: But what makes it interesting is the setting.

Tom: It is set during one of Taiwan's recent periods of political instability, and as is the case in many instances in recent Asian history, said political instability is very much acted out to a large degree in the education system.

Tom: So it is set in a high school, and you are playing as a high school student, and it begins with you introducing several characters who you interact with, and all of a sudden the school is plunged into a horror setting, sort of in the vein of Silent Hill, and it's very much clearly inspired and influenced by Silent Hill, both with its very rusty aesthetic and also the way it presents the school in the horror version and non-horror version contrast.

Tom: And the gameplay basically consists of usually pretty simple puzzles that often boil down to just going through certain motions rather than solving puzzles themselves to get the items you need, but there are actually a few interesting puzzles throughout the game, including a puzzle again, obviously inspired by the piano puzzle in Silent Hill, where you have to work out what melody is being played and then play it.

Tom: And as you were going along, the protagonist's interaction with other students in the game and how that plays into the very paranoid political setting with dissent and betrayal and what characters were involved in what there is quite an interesting story.

Tom: And I think it makes great use of an interesting time period.

Tom: And I think the only disappointing thing is that a lot of the game is, as I said, just going through the motions to get items.

Tom: And the mechanic with enemies within the levels is sometimes, I think, a little bit awkward and isn't really, doesn't increase the tension like it should.

Tom: So as you are going through the school environments or outside the school, there are different types of spirits you encounter and the way you interact with them affects whether they catch you or not.

Tom: And this is actually quite interesting and clever.

Tom: So one of the spirits, which is a starving spirit, you have to feed rice, for example, and when you do that, then they're not a threat.

Tom: Another you can't look at, so when that appears, you have to turn your back to it and things like that.

Tom: So there are some clever things there, but the way they're used isn't that interesting in terms of pacing.

Tom: It's more like they're there as a way of preventing you moving on at a certain point, so that you have to find the information which tells you how to pass them and that sort of thing, so that it almost ends up feeling like they're a little bit of filler and just there to pad things out.

Tom: But even there, which is one of the more disappointing parts of the game, there is a fair bit of creativity.

Tom: And again, it also ties in nicely to the political situation as well.

Tom: So in terms of atmosphere, it is very rich.

Tom: In terms of gameplay, there is a fair bit of genuine creativity as well.

Tom: So, and aesthetically, while it leans very heavily on Silent Hill, it is an engrossing atmospheric experience as well.

Phil: So this is a side-scrolling game, and does it have a paper-cut type, not paper-cut, does it have like a craft paper type, marionette type style?

Phil: Looking at the images of it, that's how I imagine that it moves, but is it more fluid than that?

Tom: No, it isn't particularly fluid.

Tom: I wouldn't describe it as paper-cut.

Tom: I think a more accurate comparison, except obviously, actually a lot of it doesn't, more like a Punch and Duty style puppet quality to the movement, I would say.

Tom: And there are actually quite a few moments that cleverly use the puppet style of visuals as well.

Tom: So I would say that was probably what they were going for, and I think they nailed it as well.

Phil: I think the back story behind this game is really weird because it reeks of US State Department meddling because the game was banned in China, and then Steam...

Tom: Did you do an Easter egg, I think?

Phil: Well, yeah, exactly.

Phil: What's his name?

Phil: President Xi?

Phil: Xi Jinping?

Phil: Is this the game that had him represented as Muni the Pooh?

Tom: I think so.

Phil: Because he's particularly sensitive to that.

Phil: So anything that represents him as...

Phil: presents him as being Xi Jinping, right?

Phil: President Xi?

Tom: Xi Jinping, isn't it?

Phil: Yeah, no, I think that's someone else.

Phil: But in any case, maybe Xi Jinping preceded President Xi?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: We are a bunch of idiots, obviously.

Phil: But in any case, this is really weird.

Tom: I just want to point out that I was in fact correct.

Tom: It is Xi Jinping.

Phil: Okay, so the game got banned, and then Steam, a bunch of spineless wimps, pulled it off their service.

Phil: And this is a game that's available on every service other than Xbox, by the way.

Phil: You can get this on Linux, Switch, PlayStation, you name it.

Phil: It's just not available on Xbox, PC.

Phil: Yeah, so Steam pulled it.

Tom: I think it has since been put back on Steam.

Phil: Probably because they got caught out.

Phil: And you go, well, why is this conspiracy guy talking about the State Department?

Phil: Well, this game, Detention, the one you were talking about, got a contract with Netflix.

Phil: And it's on Netflix now.

Phil: You can go watch it.

Phil: It's got a season.

Phil: Did you know that?

Tom: Yes, I did.

Phil: Yeah, so it's a highly interesting game to go and watch.

Phil: And like, or to play, rather.

Phil: Because there's not a lot of games that come out of Taiwan.

Phil: It's nothing that has come up here before.

Phil: But obviously games are being made everywhere around the world where there's computers and electricity.

Tom: Do you think the Netflix show, unlike the game, has some ostensibly anti-American status quo things in it?

Tom: Because the previous funding model of the CIA was to fund, essentially, the majority of American subversive media.

Phil: Right, right.

Tom: So the American pump music movement was all CIA funded.

Tom: Serious highbrow literature all CIA funded.

Tom: So I wonder if that is still the model today that we don't know about, or if they have moved to funding something else.

Phil: Well, that's why I thought this was a State Department play, as opposed to a CIA play.

Phil: It just reeks of that to me.

Phil: And I'm surprised that Steam lacked the political nuance.

Phil: I guess they were just responding to their Chinese overlords, like the NBA or whatever, whenever someone's told, hey, take this down, this is anti-China, because it's depicting our leader as Winnie the Pooh.

Tom: I think Steam hasn't really proven to be anti-censorship in any way, shape or form, because I don't think this is the first example of a game that has been removed by Steam.

Phil: No, certainly not.

Tom: And while Detention is back on Steam, I don't think the developers' other game is on Steam.

Phil: Devotion was the game that came before it.

Phil: And hey, I only know all this because you brought this to light.

Phil: So in and of itself, where did you play this game?

Phil: And how did you get it?

Tom: I played it on Steam.

Phil: Okay, okay.

Phil: And so it's readily available now, obviously.

Tom: Correct.

Tom: And the other game is available to be bought from them directly.

Tom: It's just not on Steam.

Phil: Overall, is this a game that you'd recommend?

Phil: Was it a shortage game?

Tom: Yep, I think it was, according to my playtime, hours, so probably in reality, or hours long.

Phil: Yep, yep.

Phil: And it held your interest for that time.

Tom: Yes, it did.

Phil: It seems a bit grim in terms of its aesthetics.

Tom: Well, it is heavily inspired by Silent Hill.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: And the game it actually reminded me of most was not Silent Hill, but another side-scrolling horror game.

Phil: Let me guess.

Tom: The Cat Lady.

Tom: Oh.

Tom: What was your guess?

Phil: This War of Mine.

Tom: No.

Tom: Not as grim as This War of Mine.

Phil: Which was, wow, that game, man.

Phil: That was a good game.

Tom: That was a great game.

Phil: Yeah, fantastic.

Tom: I think that was my game of the year, perhaps, when Papers, Please was yours.

Phil: Yeah, and it certainly was, I don't know that it was the same year, but I know that you included in your top of best games of the s our feature.

Phil: So, at gameunder.net.

Tom: Well-deserving of its place.

Phil: Absolutely, absolutely.

Phil: And I'm ashamed of myself that I didn't play it more.

Phil: It was just probably too challenging for me, honestly.

Phil: So, Cat Lady, that's not about The Simpsons Cat Lady, is it?

Tom: No, it isn't.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: I don't know if I've played that one before.

Tom: I don't think you have.

Tom: But that's another side-scrolling horror game that is most notable for featuring the work of David Firth.

Phil: Who's David Firth?

Tom: David Firth is originally a Flash animator on the internet, famous for Salad Fingers and I think the Adventures of Burnt Toast Man, I think it was called.

Phil: Oh yeah, I remember Burnt Toast Man.

Tom: Yes, and he has moved on to a successful career in animation.

Tom: But we will now give Detention a score.

Tom: Hopefully, it will be better than Coronavirus and what was the other one?

Phil: Eight.

Tom: No, Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: That's it.

Tom: Which sounds like something that might give you AIDS.

Phil: That's terrible.

Tom: Unfortunately, Detention scores a one out of ten.

Tom: So when we do discover that it was funded by the CIA, State Department, my conscience will be clean.

Phil: Indeed.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: All right, Tom.

Phil: Well, with that, I think it's time to go on to another game that you've been playing, unless you want to talk about Port Patrol.

Tom: I want to talk about Port Patrol.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, look, Port Patrol is a franchise that if you don't have children, you've probably never heard of.

Phil: But it is a force.

Phil: It is an amazing, incredible force.

Phil: And it was a TV show that was developed by the guy behind Bob the Builder.

Phil: And it is a game for preschoolers.

Phil: And it's a game about transformation and power.

Phil: So you have these little dogs and then they have jobs.

Phil: And then as the series has gone on, I think they're in their th year right now, or at least they've surpassed their first years.

Phil: It's funded by a toy company.

Tom: So it's not funded by the State Department?

Phil: No, it's funded by Spin Master.

Tom: Looking at the way the show is presenting itself, I think it could be you've got a policeman, a fireman, all very normalizing sorts of jobs here.

Tom: You're sure this isn't State Department funded?

Phil: They also have a husky lesbian as well.

Tom: That's straight out of the CIA's modern advertising.

Phil: Exactly, it is actually.

Phil: But basically, to talk about these things just as games, Paw Patrol on a Roll was the first game that came out.

Phil: And it is basically a D side-scroller.

Phil: And it is a D side-scroller.

Phil: And it's pretty basic.

Phil: It's got fairly good graphics.

Phil: And you just basically go along.

Phil: It's a collectathon, needless to say.

Phil: But for my -year-old, she picked it up immediately and totally loves it because of the subject matter.

Phil: It propelled her onward to figure out how to use a modern video game controller.

Phil: So you're using the left analog stick, you're using all of the face buttons and all four of the trigger buttons, which to me is incredible.

Phil: And basically, you're just going through all of these levels that are too...

Phil: I'm not saying it's a bad game.

Phil: I'm saying it's a pretty good, engaging type collectathon game.

Phil: The levels aren't too long.

Phil: They're not too short.

Phil: They're relatively good.

Phil: And you want to go back and go back through and collect everything to get all of the rewards that you can.

Phil: So it was a valiant first effort, available for pretty much everything, except for Linux.

Phil: And I would give that game a out of because it was fairly tedious and not very advantageous or not very adventurous, rather, in its offering.

Phil: But still a good quality game that would engage someone of that age.

Phil: The sequel, Poor Patrol Mighty Pups, Save Adventure Bay, is fantastic.

Phil: It takes it from D to a top-down D world.

Phil: And so now you're engaging in basically like Mario Sunshine type level game.

Phil: And you're playing as all the different characters in this franchise.

Phil: But it's...

Tom: They have their own individual powers.

Phil: They have their own individual powers.

Phil: And it takes on more of a Lost Vikings type, problem-solving type thing.

Phil: So it's like, OK, I need the dude that has fire to melt the ice so that I can get the guy that crushes rocks to knock down the wall.

Phil: And I'm going to need the dog that can have helicopter powers to, you know, pick up the rocks after we've destroyed them, sort of thing.

Phil: And this just goes on and on and on.

Phil: So it's also a collectathon, but it has these musical elements as well that to someone who knows games, it's like, oh, they're totally riffing off Mario Sunshine or they're riffing off a Sonic over here in this ice level or whatever.

Phil: And it's just a really high quality game that I would give, you know, like an out of for.

Tom: So as good as Wall Street Kid.

Phil: Oh, yeah, pretty much.

Phil: I mean, pretty much for what they have to work with, because you've got the limitations of what they have to work with.

Phil: They have to make this game for someone who's through to probably

Phil: And you've got to make it challenging, but not too challenging.

Phil: But knowing also that these kids, just like when we were kids, they will play this game over and over and over and over again just because of the content.

Phil: Whereas, you know, we'd finish a game and move on to the next thing.

Phil: They are, they just keep playing it and playing it and playing it.

Phil: So, you know, it's really clever.

Phil: And I've got to take my hat off to the developer, Drakhar Studio, D-R-A-K-H-A-R Studio.

Phil: They're a Spanish developer.

Phil: And they've done a fantastic job with it.

Phil: It's really heartening to see, like, and the credit roll on this thing is hundreds of people.

Phil: Like, it's like Call of Duty.

Phil: It's incredible.

Phil: But just to see all the talents come together, you know, the artwork, the music, for a game that they could have just basically phoned in to see something that's engaging in terms of its puzzles as well as its quality is really good.

Phil: And, you know, as a parent, you feel good that your kid's playing this, but even more so, you feel good that they're learning how to use a modern controller, especially in that D game that will set them up for future games.

Phil: So, yeah, I'm really happy with it.

Tom: It sounds very good.

Phil: It is.

Phil: You know, I've played a lot of kids' games for review on gameunder.net, and, you know, you go into them.

Phil: People say, oh, are you just going into them to, you know, on them basically, because they're kids' games, because that was it.

Tom: Or just to collect trophies.

Tom: We know how much you love your trophy collection.

Phil: Yeah, no.

Phil: It's not about trophies or achievements, because, you know, like my caterpillar game that I played on Game Boy Color, for example, or what was that game, TV show, Everyone Loves Wanda?

Tom: Everybody Likes Chris.

Phil: Everybody Likes Chris.

Tom: Everybody Loves Raymond.

Phil: Everyone Likes Raymond.

Phil: Yes, that's another show.

Phil: There's another one.

Phil: That's so Raymond.

Phil: That's what I said.

Phil: So, you know, like when I reviewed That's So Raven, I didn't do it ironically or going into it like, oh, yeah, let me tell you how bad this game is, because I actually did like it, I think, and scored it on the podcast.

Phil: I go into it because these are professionals that are making these games.

Phil: You know, these are people that wake up, they think about this game for, you know, the three weeks that they made it.

Phil: But someone still made it.

Phil: It's still a creative element, and in these games, that's where you get to put subversive stuff.

Phil: That's where you get to put things that no one's going to pay attention to because it's a kids' game.

Tom: So what's the most subversive moment of Paw Patrol ?

Phil: Well, Paw Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay.

Phil: There is a character called Chickaletta, and there is a lady of color who is the mayor of Adventure Bay.

Phil: Yeah, there's not a lot of subversiveness in this particular one.

Phil: This is just a good game.

Tom: Maybe you should lower your rating then.

Phil: Yeah, I think so.

Phil: I actually am going to drop this down to a out of now that you've brought that up.

Phil: Because I have played these kids' games before because people who are making games, they're still getting paid to come in and do work, and they have good ideas, and they can hit on something good like they did with Wall Street Kid or that caterpillar game that I played.

Phil: So yeah, I mean, I'm just saying, you know, just because it's a kids' game doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be bad.

Phil: It's always interesting, and that's what this whole podcast and adventure has been about, is finding interesting games, not just the games that, you know, the commercially successful games.

Tom: I agree.

Tom: There's a lot of good children's content out there that is better than a lot of content for adults.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: There's no reason to assume that something will be more shallow or less aesthetically complex just because it's made for children.

Phil: I would say that if you have the choice to buy Poor Patrol on a Roll or Poor Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay, look, there's no going back from Poor Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay.

Phil: Do not go back and try and fill the catalogue.

Phil: Just, you know, look forward to what they've got.

Phil: The game that came after apparently was a tie-in with the movie and has not gotten as good a credit.

Phil: But I'm thinking I'm probably going to dip in and give it a go anyway because it was made by the same studio at least.

Phil: So, yeah.

Tom: Before we move on, I'm going to make a proclamation on that point.

Tom: I would say since the end of modernism, in literature, children's writing is creatively much freer and thematically much more difficult than writing for adults.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: I was reading a children's book last night, a new one.

Phil: Like this is an illustrated children's book, not like young fiction or anything like that.

Phil: And yeah, you can write some pretty avant-garde poetry in an illustrated children's book and get away with it.

Phil: There's no constraints at all other than commercial constraints, I guess.

Phil: But once you've sold one good kids' book, you can basically do whatever you want, and they're going to print it and put it out to kids.

Tom: Whereas that is very much not the case in publishing for adults these days.

Phil: Oh, no.

Tom: Oh, no.

Phil: I don't even know what the modern publishing scene is for adults if it's not like World War II related.

Tom: Is World War II big at the moment?

Phil: It always is.

Tom: I think it's been big since

Tom: Since Monopoly.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: OK, you want to include another game in here?

Tom: Yes, we may as well talk about Sky Children of the Light, which I am still playing.

Tom: They recently just released another season, which they released, I think, under two weeks since the previous one ended, which I am not a fan of.

Tom: I think that removes the interesting moments where everyone stops playing and you get a break and a chance to build up anticipation and hype for the next season.

Phil: Well, you've got to give...

Phil: I'm going to call it an expansion, but you've got to give that expansion time to breathe.

Phil: You know, so let people just sort of dwell on it.

Phil: I mean, is this the sort of thing that you can go back, like after you've, quote, finished it, go back into and sort of just live in that environment, that new environment that they've created, like they did with World of Warcraft?

Tom: Yep, you can return to the environments, new environments.

Tom: You usually wouldn't because the main reason you're returning to environments is to collect candle wax.

Tom: There's only, I think, two of the environments or three that people generally return to that have a lot of wax in them.

Tom: But I think other than returning to them, the other interesting thing I think that releasing the new season immediately takes away is also a chance to play around with different outfits and have a longer time to explore the last lot of clothing items you unlocked.

Tom: Because unless you're buying seasonal candles as well as the Adventure Pass, which allows you to unlock everything, the last lot of items, you won't be getting that far away from the end of the season.

Tom: So it also gives you less time to enjoy the different outfits as well before you then unlocking yet more of them.

Phil: So then two weeks later they've released the new season.

Phil: What's the season called?

Tom: I think it was under two weeks actually.

Tom: I can't recall the title of this season, but the theme is that of a travelling theatre company.

Tom: And it has introduced, like the last season, a new gameplay mechanic.

Tom: The previous season introduced a swimming mechanic.

Tom: I can't recall if we talked about that or not.

Phil: No, the last one we talked about was a season of flight.

Phil: That was a season of abyss.

Phil: This is a season of performance.

Phil: So this is the th season basically.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So the interesting mechanic they've introduced here is Dark Souls style visual candles.

Tom: So before there was the Dark Souls style mechanic where you could leave messages for other players that just featured something you wrote.

Tom: Now you can basically record yourself doing something, leave that as a message that takes the place, takes the form of a candle.

Tom: And if a player comes up and opens lights that candle, then they watch you perform doing whatever you recorded, which as well as allowing you to record them using skits or whatever you want, is also actually very useful in levels where there are doors that require multiple people.

Tom: For example, in the Vault of Knowledge, there's a door that requires four players to open the door with each of them pulling the door up.

Tom: So you can record a message, a video of you pulling that door up.

Tom: And if another player comes along and plays that message, but there are only two other players in that player's server, so there's three players actually there and there's your message.

Tom: If they play that message and the three other players pull the door up, then the door will be opened.

Tom: So it's actually a very interesting and clever solution to multiple player doors and things like that, as well as allowing for a lot of creativity as well.

Phil: So the messages, they're not vocal, obviously, because this is an international game.

Tom: No, so if you want to include a statement in your message, you use the text chat feature that is there.

Phil: Okay, so it is a vocal recording that you leave.

Tom: Well, it's not a vocal recording, but you can write a message as well as record yourself doing something.

Phil: Because I was going to say we could leave episodes of our podcast there, and then when three people had listened to all minutes of it, that would unlock the door.

Phil: I'm just thinking about the show here.

Tom: Well, we could leave quotes from the show.

Phil: Or transcripts from the show, that's true.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Probably not full transcripts because there is a text limit.

Tom: But quotes we could do.

Phil: Okay, fair enough.

Tom: And another example of a creative and useful thing that people can do is one of the things that other plays are useful for is recharging your flying energy through calls.

Tom: So in areas where players are likely to run out of energy, a lot of people have been leaving messages where they've recorded themselves doing the long call which recharges energy.

Tom: So if you play that message, your energy will be recharged.

Tom: So it's a very clever and very useful mechanic that they've introduced here.

Phil: So how much of this game for you is just interacting with your online game?

Tom: Nearly % of it at this point.

Phil: So it's kind of like Fortnite in that it's a playground that you can just basically go to and feel comfortable with and interact with your friends.

Tom: It's basically like an instant messenger with activities in the background.

Phil: Is this a treadmill that the game company, that game company can't get off of at this point?

Tom: I would say so.

Phil: Is that good?

Tom: Well, they are still doing some creative things.

Tom: Arguably, I would say this and the last season have been two of the more creative seasons, but they've introduced, I think, the only similar level of changes to gameplay in a season was still what I think was the best moment in Sky, which was the mushroom picking mechanic, which may have come about through a glitch and became this whole extremely difficult artificial way of collecting candles.

Tom: So I think there's still room for that game company to be creative in it.

Tom: And given that this is in the vein of Journey, it's probably something they're interested in doing long term, given that they did go back to Journey with Sky in the first place.

Phil: Right.

Phil: And I don't mean this as a criticism.

Phil: I mean, I could level the same thing at the people that are making Fortnite, and it is not a criticism.

Phil: But you do just wonder at a certain level, at what level does it become masturbatory as a creator to just stick to the one thing, you know, to come in and every day just be like, yeah, this is the thing that's working, we'll just keep doing this.

Phil: Is there enough challenge within Sky in the seasons that they've created to really...

Phil: I mean, in the Rocket League, you know, Scionic, the Rocket League guys, I'm looking at Fortnite, I'm looking at, you know, a number of games at this point where it's the same thing over and over again.

Phil: I know it's not the same thing.

Phil: Like, is it a valid criticism?

Tom: I would say the reverse of your criticism is valuable, is that there's not enough room for masturbation in getting stuck in repeating the same game over and over again endlessly.

Tom: Given that masturbation in the creative sense is usually used as a criticism of being overly creative.

Tom: Whereas here, rather than playing into attempting to satisfy your own creative curiosity, here you're stuck in attempting to satisfy an existing audience, leaving you no room to masturbate at all.

Phil: Yeah, it's just interesting.

Phil: I mean, you think of Derek Yu, who created Spelunky, and it was just so iconic and successful that really, unless he comes out with something radically different, then he can't break out of that mold.

Phil: And I guess the guys that did Bastion and there are the games that followed.

Phil: They've successfully pulled it off.

Phil: They've been able to make a new game every time they bring out a game and be successful and creatively successful as well.

Phil: Whereas Derek basically just brought out Spelunky and everyone went, yeah, of course.

Tom: I would question that on Supergiant Games actually, because in the one sense that it's true, in the other sense, all of their games are built on an identical principle of looking at what is out there and creating something that is based on numerous elements of other games.

Tom: So in a sense, they're not being much more creative than the developers you've mentioned.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, and you do get that.

Phil: I mean, when you listen to a band, and we've talked about this before, you know, from one album to the next, they're still playing in the same sandbox.

Phil: And with a few exceptions, there are very few bands that completely break out of their mold on a regular basis.

Phil: So what is the message of Sky?

Phil: Like, what is the message of Sky?

Phil: Is it social connectiveness?

Phil: Is it like the whole Buddhist-type connectivity, spiritual connectiveness?

Tom: That actually reminds me, which I have to bring up, Season of the Abyss, because I'm sure we did do first impressions of it.

Tom: And we talked about how thematically the interesting that was compared to some of the recent seasons up to that point.

Tom: I have to say, well, aesthetically it had a very enjoyable whale-eating player-style ending, very fitting for the setting.

Tom: Thematically, it did not go anywhere, very bizarrely, because it began with a setup for a very potentially environmentalist-themed storyline with the player helping a group of prospectors looking for resources in this ocean area.

Tom: And that went nowhere, which is very bizarre, given that that was a theme of arguably other moments in Sky and certainly Journey.

Tom: That was arguably one of the main themes in Journey, was the exploitation of the natural environment to the point of disaster.

Tom: Here, they essentially had that whole story narrative being set up, and it ended with that essentially going absolutely nowhere.

Tom: So thematically, that was a rather disappointing ending to the season of Abyss.

Phil: So what is Sky about?

Phil: I mean, it's got a very small team, and they're sticking with it.

Phil: It's obviously commercially successful, otherwise they wouldn't be able to do seasons of it.

Phil: And I think it is really cool, first of all, because when this game came out, no one knew it was going to be viable, and they've made it viable.

Phil: It took them forever to get to...

Phil: They went pretty rapidly from iOS to Android.

Phil: It took them forever to get to Nintendo Switch, and they haven't ever hit the PC.

Phil: I wonder why that is.

Phil: I wonder if it's because they think going to that scale would be disruptive.

Phil: I don't know if they think that their infrastructure can support the PC and the population that would come with it if they would, for example, hit Steam.

Phil: I mean, that is a very interesting question.

Tom: That is quite possibly the reason, because it can barely support the number of players it currently has.

Phil: That's fascinating.

Phil: Is that not fascinating?

Phil: That Microsoft that just snapped up a thousand companies, including Activision Blizzard, that someone wouldn't go to Jenova Chan and go, hey, you've got an amazing dream here.

Phil: We want to take it beyond.

Phil: You know, you guys have donated millions of dollars to charities through the different campaigns that you've run.

Phil: You can do even more good if we were to be able to put this in front of X million, tens of millions of people.

Phil: We'll buy you.

Phil: We'll leave you completely alone.

Phil: You can do whatever you want.

Phil: And you can have a bigger platform for the good that you want to do.

Phil: That is something that would happen.

Phil: This is a wildly successful game.

Tom: I think it's too close to an MMORPG structure rather than something like Fortnite or Destiny or Apex Legends where you'd be more likely to see that happening.

Tom: Because you did see that sort of thing happening at the peak of MMORPGs.

Tom: And the result was almost always a failure.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So I think the lesson has been learned.

Phil: I just think that this is a no-brainer purchase for Epic that went out and bought Psionic for Rocket League.

Phil: This seems to me to be something that Epic would be able to buy, nurture and leave alone and just blow open.

Phil: But again, you're exactly right.

Phil: The format doesn't allow it.

Phil: The format doesn't allow it unless you were to splinter the servers so that you could maintain that intimate thing.

Phil: It's kind of like a secret community, really, and probably something that you wouldn't want to see blown wide open.

Tom: And maybe they don't want to blow it wide open for creative reasons as well.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So I'm going to ask the question one more time.

Phil: What is it about?

Phil: What is the message of this game?

Phil: Because they went from Flow to Flower to Journey to This, which is an extension of Journey, and all of those games have been about, you know, a journey.

Phil: It's been about a journey, but also connectiveness, which to me is just like, that's slam dunk Buddhism, but and like maybe I'm just reading it wrong.

Tom: Well, I would say it is very much an expansion of the content of Journey.

Tom: It is referred to as a spiritual successor, but it is essentially a continuation of Journey thematically.

Tom: With the addition of capitalism, I think the major theme of Sky is the whale player and exploiting them for every penny they can get.

Tom: So I think rather than Buddhism, I think the message of Sky is mindfulness.

Phil: That's pretty cool, man.

Phil: So we got to the bottom of it.

Tom: Yes, I think we did.

Phil: So with that, I think we could probably wrap this up at this point and save some of these other games and stories for the next time that we play.

Tom: I think we should return briefly to Gran Turismo

Phil: Gran Turismo really?

Tom: Yes, because there was another amusing gameplay mechanic in it that is indicative of some of the more unscrupulousness and absurdity of the in-game economy, and that is roulette spins, which are supposed rewards for driving a certain distance each day.

Tom: If you drive, I think, kilometres in-game per day, you receive a roulette spin, which features five different potential prizes, one of which is a very small amount of credits.

Tom: If you have a low-value roulette spin, I think it's as low as credits, which is essentially nothing.

Tom: Now, as a test...

Phil: credits is nothing.

Tom: Yes, it is nothing.

Tom: And every...

Tom: where I'm at currently, which is still very early on, a reasonable race victory without getting the clean race bonus is credits.

Tom: So credits is very little.

Tom: Anyway, I accumulated roulette spins to do a test because as you get them, you very quickly notice that you almost always get the lowest value prize.

Tom: So I did in a row to find out, out of spins where there are possible prizes, how many of them were not the lowest prize?

Tom: How many out of would you guess were not the least value prize?

Phil: This is very important research.

Phil: So you accumulated all these spins until you had

Phil: And now you're going to spin them.

Phil: And they're supposedly going to be random.

Phil: So you could get...

Tom: You've got a in chance of the lowest prize.

Tom: So if you've got a in chance for one result out of you'd expect that to occur a couple of times, I think, mathematically speaking.

Phil: That is exactly right.

Phil: You'd expect that to happen twice.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So how many times do you think out of spins did I get the lowest value prize?

Phil: Six.

Tom: Seven.

Phil: I was going to say seven.

Phil: Then I...

Phil: yep, okay.

Phil: Seven.

Tom: Sorry.

Tom: So clearly, the odds are against the player here.

Phil: Against you.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: I think demonstrating the disdain that Polyphony Digital has for the player at this stage.

Phil: Money changes everything, man.

Tom: And the one other thing I'd like to mention is as well.

Tom: You mentioned some of the other non-jazz musical content of Gran Turismo such as Snoop Dogg.

Tom: Garbage.

Tom: Garbage.

Tom: Nirvana.

Tom: I think it was another one.

Phil: Nirvana wasn't in there.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Anyway, I just mentioned the jazz.

Tom: Yes, you are correct, of course.

Tom: It does indeed contain rock music, even some things you could perhaps vaguely describe as hip-hop beats.

Tom: But I think the only thing from any Gran Turismo soundtrack, certainly that sticks in my mind, is the jazz selection.

Tom: I think for the other types of music, including the classical music, they're usually not the most engaging examples of those genres.

Tom: Whereas when it comes to the jazz, it is a step above something like Kenny G.

Tom: Whereas I think for other genres, that's the sort of equivalent you find in Gran Turismo soundtracks.

Phil: I'd have to agree with that.

Phil: I just was blown away that you play as much as Gran Turismo and couldn't remember Garbage's soundtrack, but maybe that's just me.

Tom: And that does remind me of another interesting music selection.

Tom: I was playing a little bit of Tekken Tag Tournament and was amused to find that the theme song for one of the stages was by Snoop Dogg.

Phil: What wasn't at that point?

Phil: Or what isn't today, for that fact?

Phil: Okay, hey, the name of that game, that psychological counselling game that I can't stop playing, is Kind Words.

Phil: Have you bothered to even download or try it?

Tom: I think at one point I downloaded it, but I haven't tried it yet.

Phil: I think it's profound.

Tom: And it's currently not installed.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's a profound interactive experience.

Tom: Before we move on, there is one last thing I want to say about Gran Turismo which is, I think, a change for the series, but not necessarily a negative change.

Tom: And that is the, not the structure of the campaign, but the way, the sort of player behaviour they're encouraging.

Tom: I mentioned that the roulette rules, roulette spins are unlocked after only kilometres.

Tom: Now, that's only three or four races.

Tom: So there is a heavy encouragement, I would say, for short play sessions.

Tom: And if you, depending on how you want to play, it's almost like once you get to that point, then there is less encouragement to continue playing for longer, because once you get a single roulette spin, you don't get a second one for when you hit kilometres, for example.

Tom: So at that point, you're wasting kilometres, and you may as well stop playing until the next day.

Tom: Or at least that will be the sort of thing they will be encouraging if roulette spins were not a punishing experience every time you used one.

Phil: The more you describe this game, the more I am completely disinterested in it.

Phil: It sounds like every other piece of garbage that is infiltrating AAA gaming.

Phil: You know, massive downloads, the hard sell after a short period of time for, you know, in-store purchases.

Phil: They're killing games.

Phil: This is garbage.

Tom: Absolutely, but the one thing about it is, which makes it actually less annoying and intrusive, is it is so badly done.

Tom: As I said, for example, once you get to that point, you stop getting rewarded for continuing to play, as opposed to if you're playing...

Tom: if you're playing Forza Horizon, which has a barrage of things that it wants you to do every single day to try and get you to play it as long as possible.

Tom: And the microtransactions are so ridiculous and absurd, there's really no encouragement to do it.

Tom: Who is going to buy a single car for $?

Tom: Probably some people will, but virtually no one.

Phil: No one with a healthy mental state.

Tom: Yes, whereas in Forza Horizon, if there's a car you really want that's part of a car pack for $that has maybe cars in it, and there are quite a few other cars you're interested in there, then you'll be tempted to actually get that.

Tom: So the whole monetization of the game and encouragement to get players to play in a certain manner with the roulette spins that are a punishing rather than rewarding experience, unlike the Forza Horizon spins, is so badly done, it ends up being less intrusive than other games, even though it has been shoehorned in there, unfortunately.

Phil: I just see this as complete abuse.

Phil: I mean, you know, these games that are capitalizing on whales spending $on the game, it's abuse.

Phil: It's absolute abuse.

Phil: It should be illegal.

Phil: And it's certainly left to their own devices.

Phil: The major publishers of video games, with a certain few exceptions, are absolutely counter to everything that what video games is about.

Phil: And you can certainly say that about book publishers.

Phil: I fully appreciate that.

Phil: It is % true about music publishers.

Phil: I can fully appreciate that, which is why people that own the presses, you know, should be executed.

Phil: And that's why I love itch.io.

Phil: That's why I love the independent game movement.

Phil: And for me to actually think that a major publisher of a game franchise that I actually once loved, like Gran Turismo, is capable in this millennia of producing something of merit, you know, is absolutely ridiculous.

Phil: And I'm the one that should be ashamed for assuming that they would be capable of producing an entertainment product that I'd be happy to pay for without all of these hooks, you know, in my cheekbone.

Phil: It's offensive to me.

Tom: And the other thing that is so frustrating about it is that it is in a Gran Turismo with revolutionary gameplay for consoles where you have a legitimately good sim physics model with a Gran Turismo style career mode.

Tom: There is no other game like this.

Tom: And it's Gran Turismo career mode that has finally found its identity for the first time since Gran Turismo with the whole menu book thing.

Tom: And yet, they've stuck this stuff on top of it.

Phil: They're using developers as prostitutes, and they're big pharma that's got the cure, and it sucks.

Phil: And I'm sorry I'm so animated about this, because it just angers me, because gaming used to be such a fun enterprise from the publisher down.

Phil: The publisher knew that people loved games, and they loved games as much as the people that played them.

Phil: But what you're describing to me, Gran Turismo is like a casino.

Tom: It is.

Tom: The roulette wheel is rigged against you.

Phil: I mean, it couldn't be any more transparent.

Phil: That sucks.

Phil: Anyway, the name of the...

Tom: I have seen amusingly some people on the internet mentioning that the roulette is so unrealistic because it is rigged.

Tom: I'm not sure if they're familiar with casinos and the way gambling works.

Tom: But getting the worst result only out of times on a roulette wheel is doing pretty well, I think.

Phil: Pretty charitable.

Phil: Maybe that's how they sleep at night.

Phil: I want to...

Tom: We're better than an actual casino.

Phil: I was going to say I want to meet these people and kick their brains in, but I wonder who they are.

Phil: I wonder if the people that are contorting Gran Turismo are in America or Japan.

Phil: I struggle to think they're in Japan, but that just probably is my stereotypes kicking in.

Tom: Maybe they are predominantly from Japan.

Tom: Japan is...

Phil: Yeah, home to the Yakuza...

Tom: .

Tom: the world where there are Yakuza Pachinko games.

Phil: Is that it for Gran Turismo ?

Tom: There is one tangentially related thing to Gran Turismo I do have to bring up, because there was an Australian Grand Prix for the first time in many years, which exposed me for the first time to the fascinating world of baldness prevention, or not baldness prevention, baldness prevention and the reconstitution of hair ads, which are a lot different to the last time I saw baldness related ads, perhaps in the previous Australian Grand Prix a few years ago, where they were essentially advertised as either get your hair back to be like Shane Warne, which you can't do anymore today for obvious reasons, or get your hair back so that you can have an amazing wife and a sports car and that sort of thing.

Tom: That's how I remember baldness related ads to be in the past.

Tom: Today, baldness ads consist of a man standing in a hall with dark depressive lighting, holding a photo of himself when he had hair and placing it on the wall as the lights are turned up and the narration explains how this poor bald man was such a disgusting inhuman creature as he was balding, that he was so ashamed, rightfully so, that he had to take down photos that he had of himself throughout the house when he had hair.

Tom: But now that his hair has regrown and he is human again, he can replace these photos from his past when he was human, and be human once again.

Tom: Or another man standing taking a photo with his parents, as the narration explains, that he used to be a wonderful photographer for his parents, because he was such an inhuman, shameful and despicable creature while he was balding, that he was rightfully taking himself out of every photo, so that he didn't ruin his parents' life, and force them to hide any photos they had of themselves, in case their friends and family saw that they had a balding son.

Tom: Now, with a wonderful full head of hair, he can take selfies with his parents once again, and return to the human world.

Phil: Well, maybe Jada Pinkett can watch a couple of those ads and figure it out, because baldness has gone from being a legitimate source of humor to being a bloody disorder.

Phil: Anyway, hey, the name of the game I was trying to remember was Kind Words, which is something I'd thoroughly recommend.

Phil: I know that you've probably downloaded it, but not installed it yet.

Phil: It is, you know, I think it's a profound, the most profound form of communication since AOL Chat was introduced, or IRC was introduced more appropriately.

Tom: Have you come across any baldness-related messages on it?

Phil: Probably.

Phil: I mean, I've responded to a few thousand patients at this point, unpaid.

Phil: Oh, actually, I am paid in stickers.

Phil: They don't cost me a cent, by the way.

Phil: So unless you've got any last parting words, then this is the end of episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Please visit gameunder.net.

Phil: Visit our review section where we've posted up some of Tom's best retro reviews that have been hidden for well over a decade.

Phil: We resurfaced them and they're available there.

Phil: You can go back and listen to our back catalogue.

Tom: While we're on the topic of comedy, you will hear today, comedians everywhere saying you couldn't get away with that today.

Tom: Here we are dipping into the vault from years ago and fearlessly republishing content that other pathetic outlets couldn't get away with today.

Phil: Fearlessly.

Phil: That is exactly right.

Phil: I mean, even we didn't talk about it, but with Max Payne and I'm pretty sure they're going to do these remakes and pull the originals off the scene because there's some, you know, in a quote inappropriate stuff in that as well.

Phil: But yeah, our whole catalogue's up there.

Phil: You want misogyny.

Phil: You want racism.

Phil: We got episodes.

Phil: They're all up there on the web.

Tom: While we're on the topic of...

Phil: We're not on any topic...

Tom: .

Tom: the sheer cowardice of the creative world outside of gameunder.net.

Tom: Can I just add?

Tom: Yes, I'm going to.

Tom: No one talked about the fact that you have comedians terrified that someone got slapped and that this is going to destroy the world of comedy because they are afraid to go on stage because of the violence they are facing.

Tom: Motherfucker!

Tom: If you are afraid of fucking getting slapped because you want to say something in your art, what the fuck are you doing?

Tom: Going to a different job, you have no place in creativity.

Tom: We live in a world where people are beheaded or have been beheaded in the past for being willing to stand by their creative statements.

Tom: If you are afraid of getting slapped, piss off and get another job, you are probably not contributing anything creative worth a damn.

Phil: That's it.

Phil: Look at those French dudes that did the pictures of Mohammed.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: I mean, have a take and stand by it.

Phil: I think that's our new motto.

Phil: Thanks for listening to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg and I have been joined by my host.

Phil: I am Mr.

Phil: Tom Towers.

Tom: My sign off is now a cough.

Game Under Podcast 142

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

A bonus episode to get us through Easter, a retrospective of the Grand Theft Auto franchise through GTA5.

Transcript:
Phil: Oh, hello.

Phil: It's Phil Fogg here.

Phil: I'm gonna tell you a story.

Phil: So buckle up.

Phil: So, about nine years ago, Tom and I sat down to talk about Grand Theft Auto, and basically the history of Grand Theft Auto, up to the point through Grand Theft Auto IV.

Phil: A new trailer was about to come out for Grand Theft Auto V.

Phil: It's been almost nine years since then, and nothing much has happened with Grand Theft Auto V, other than its full conversion to an always online game.

Phil: So, with a new Grand Theft Auto in the offing, I thought it was time to release this fully re-digitized version, and a much better quality episode of episode four of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters.

Phil: And that's what gave us DMA, which was the DMA, which is the company that has become Rockstar North.

Phil: The DMA stands for doesn't mean anything.

Phil: And they made games like Lemmings, which was probably one of the top games of all time, I'm guessing.

Tom: Yeah, I played the hell out of the shareware version of that.

Phil: That was made by Dave Jones, who went on to make Crackdown, and then APB, the failed online MMO, basically open client.

Phil: It actually isn't that failed.

Phil: I mean, it's still surviving right now.

Phil: It's just his company failed real time or whatever it was called.

Phil: And then they went on and made Grand Theft Auto and

Phil: And of course, this is also a Dave Jones project.

Phil: It was the only GTA not set in the USA with their expansion with the London set for the second game.

Phil: And then they stumbled along and made the Ngame Body Harvest, which is really the prelude before Grand Theft Auto

Phil: This was a game where you could hijack vehicles, get in and out, perform violence.

Phil: So it was basically like a third person isometric type view.

Phil: Not as pronounced, truly isometric, not top down like the early GTAs, but you could run around, hijack cars and basically just do what you want.

Phil: And God said, let there be light.

Phil: And there was light.

Phil: And this brings us in to Grand Theft Auto III.

Phil: This was a game that at Ethat year, most gaming journalists said that they were there and they saw Halo and that's what they were excited about.

Phil: And then Rockstar Take-Two had this little tiny stall up to the side for Grand Theft Auto III that no one paid any attention to.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto III, of course, had the silent protagonist Claude and really just completely revolutionized the gameplay.

Phil: Will Wright famously said that he played it and he was like, oh, wait, so I can basically get into any car I want.

Phil: I can be an ambulance driver.

Phil: I can be a firefighter.

Phil: I can be a taxi driver.

Phil: I can walk around.

Phil: I can do what I want.

Tom: And murder prostitutes, don't forget.

Phil: Murder prostitutes, taking money back.

Phil: And I mean, just probably, I mean, just a great game.

Phil: And then a year later, they released Vice City.

Phil: And of course, San Andres.

Phil: And...

Tom: They're two greatest works.

Phil: Vice City and San Andres, yeah.

Phil: I like San Andres best.

Phil: It does have a game ending bug in the original PlayStation release of it, which is what stopped me from beating that game.

Tom: That's your excuse anyway.

Phil: That is my excuse.

Phil: Have you beaten San Andres?

Tom: Oh yeah.

Phil: Okay, the mission where you were in San Francisco and you have to fly the little planes around and blow up three dudes' vehicles.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: What format did you play that on and how did you go in that mission?

Tom: PSand this was many, many years ago, so I have absolutely no idea.

Tom: I do remember though that I deliberately avoided getting the game ending bug.

Phil: Oh really?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I knew about it before playing, so that probably helped.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, the bummer thing is, is that that mission comes early in the game, fairly early in the game.

Phil: I mean, you do have to get up to San Fierro.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: But I tried it and I failed at it.

Phil: I'm like, okay, whatever.

Phil: It's just a pointless little side mission.

Phil: It doesn't matter.

Phil: I went on with the complete rest of the game, you know, going to Vegas, the whole thing.

Phil: I was probably at that point hours into the game.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And basically, it's like the last icon on your map.

Phil: So you have to beat it before they'll unlock the final San Andreas levels.

Phil: And I tried everything.

Phil: I tried just playing it to death.

Phil: I probably played for like two weeks straight.

Phil: I tried cheats that would, you know, slow down the clock, speed up your playing.

Phil: I couldn't beat it at all.

Phil: Which is the greatest shame because it was up to that point my favorite GTA era.

Phil: Now, of course, in that time, there were also two other lesser played GTA games, Vice City Stories and Liberty City Stories, primarily released on the PSP and then later released on the PS

Phil: Did you play those ones?

Tom: No, I did not.

Phil: Yeah, those were really my favorites.

Phil: My favorite GTA game is Vice City Stories, the one that features Phil Collins.

Tom: So you like it even more than San Andreas?

Phil: Yes, I do.

Phil: It was the last one they released, and it uses the same engine and everything else.

Phil: And it was really the high point of the GTA series.

Phil: Being from Los Angeles, obviously, I like the San Andreas game for many, many reasons, and the soundtrack and all the rest of it.

Phil: But Vice City Stories was really them understanding completely what it was that they were doing.

Phil: And it was the last game they made on that engine and the best game I found in the GTA series.

Tom: They've got a reputation for being a lot more focused than the console games.

Phil: Yeah, very much so.

Phil: And that's because, of course, they were released on the PSP initially.

Phil: So they had the UMD, so they're a lot tighter.

Phil: And a lot less flab, you know.

Phil: God saw the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

Phil: So, then you have GTA

Phil: And, I mean, it's amazing when you go back and play GTA now, like, Nico's using a feature phone, not a smartphone, you know.

Phil: It does seem like an age ago.

Phil: They radically changed the driving in that game.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: They made it a lot heavier and less arcade-y.

Tom: So, it's still very arcade-y, but yeah.

Phil: Yeah, which initially I chafed at, but eventually grew to love.

Phil: What are your thoughts, capsule summary of GTA ?

Tom: Well, as a GTA game, I think it is a complete and utter % failure.

Tom: Now, the thing is, what they were doing, as far as I can see, is they basically realized, okay, our mechanics in GTA, the shooting, the driving and everything, are all basically a load of crap, right?

Tom: There's nothing particularly good about how our cars feel to drive in the old GTA games, and the shooting was absolutely horrible, right?

Phil: I completely disagree.

Phil: I found the driving, I mean, it wasn't burnout quality.

Tom: Yeah, no, no, no, no.

Tom: I'm saying in the old ones.

Phil: No, I'm talking about the old ones.

Phil: Go on.

Phil: In the old ones, I mean, it wasn't like Sleeping Dogs quality where it is on the standard of burnout, right?

Phil: But it was still enjoyable.

Phil: I mean, they had the great physics.

Phil: That's where I learned how that if a cop car is in front of you, you basically just tap the rear near the trunk and it will spin out.

Tom: I'm not saying it wasn't enjoyable to drive.

Tom: I just mean that there wasn't a great amount of depth to it, right?

Tom: It was a very simple system that was designed around getting the most fun of it from not just the simple joy of driving, but what you were doing, right?

Tom: So you could play around with the physics, etc.

Tom: All the cars sort of felt the same except for some sports cars.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: The sports cars felt light, right?

Phil: As a sports car does, and flighty, and if you went too fast around a corner, you'd flip out.

Phil: The heavier cars, the older cars, like the station wagons, had poorer control and felt heavier.

Phil: If you had an armored car, you knew you were driving an armored car, you'd be spitting out exhaust and be slow and heavy.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, I thought it showed a pretty nuanced demonstration of different automobile.

Tom: But that's the thing.

Tom: It's got like several archetypes in it, right?

Tom: It's got...

Phil: It's got about four archetypes.

Tom: But there's much more than four different cars in there, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So once again, take this as a slight exaggeration, what I'm saying, because I don't disagree with what you said there.

Tom: But in GTA IV, they took that to a much higher level where most of the games felt, most of the cars felt very different, even within their own class of cars, right?

Tom: So there were sedans and hashbacks, just normal cars that felt quite different.

Tom: And there was a big difference in most of the sports cars, et cetera, right?

Tom: You don't think so?

Phil: No, I do think so.

Phil: I felt that in GTA IV, I mean, if you were driving a Mercedes Coupe, you really felt like you were driving a Mercedes Coupe, right?

Tom: So that's what I'm saying, is they took the elements of the older GTAs and turned them up to right?

Tom: So they took what we had, four archetypes for all the cars in the entire game, right?

Tom: And they then applied that to making each car feel unique and different.

Tom: And this applied to, so then they changed the shooting, they made it a much more traditional sort of shooting thing, and they also changed the mission design, trying to make the mission sort of play out more as you would expect a normal shooter to, right, as well.

Phil: What do you mean?

Tom: So as opposed to in GTA, the old GTAs, where you basically went somewhere and there was a huge amount of people to shoot, and you just shot them all.

Tom: Here, you have a level to move through, and you have to go from cover to cover and that sort of thing.

Tom: And the missions were also more, the pacing was more nuanced, right?

Phil: That is a great insight, because yeah, in the old GTA s, it was more of an open world type.

Phil: We're going to drop enemies on this open world map, go.

Phil: But in Grand Theft Auto IV, they actually designed the shooting situations, like the famous museum heist, or the scene at the, I think it was like an iron smelting plant or something like that, where you were playing it as you would a proper shooter.

Tom: And the thing is though, the thing I think that they just missed here was, they had all these core elements that were actually pretty good, right?

Tom: And improved from the previous games.

Tom: But I didn't really feel like they brought them together to form the one cohesive experience, which is what the older GTA games were just incredible at.

Tom: They took all these small elements and more limited elements than in GTA and just made this unbelievably engaging and enjoyable experience out of them.

Tom: Here, I thought they didn't really bring them together to form that whole cohesive whole, which was basically my major problem with GTA apart from the story where they basically attempted to move from doing ridiculous parody to satire, where they didn't just want to make fun of a mafia story.

Tom: They wanted to also give you the feeling of experiencing a good mafia story while also making fun of it.

Tom: Maybe after their experience with Red Dead Redemption and the like, at the stage they did this with GTA they just did not have the skills to pull that off whatsoever.

Phil: Yeah, I think you're right.

Phil: I mean, Red Dead Redemption obviously showed a level of maturing that they had not yet reached with Grand Theft Auto

Phil: You almost, from an outsider's perspective, because the Hauser brothers are so silent, you almost think about, well, is it one Hauser who wants to be Scorsese and one Hauser wants to be Mad Magazine?

Phil: And then they're constantly fighting.

Phil: But I think at the same time, that's what makes Grand Theft Auto so appealing.

Phil: And it has from the very beginning.

Phil: I mean, right from the start, Grand Theft Auto it is both a notion of this is a very violent and to some tastes offensive game, but it's also Mad Magazine.

Phil: So I think that may be what makes it special.

Phil: And so when you take a game like Red Dead Redemption, yeah, it's going to appeal to more mature tastes, but you've got to wonder if it's turning off the younger set who might want more of the Mad Magazine type stuff and creating space for franchises like Saints Row.

Phil: In Grand Theft Auto I did not, I mean, I was addicted to the game twice because I played it for great periods of time, like years apart.

Phil: And I mean, I really was addicted to it, which means I must have liked it.

Phil: I mean, I'd sit down in Nico's apartment and watch the TV shows, you know, what Ricky Gervais and all, you know, the animated cartoons and stuff like that.

Phil: But the things that make it my least favorite Grand Theft Auto game is probably the aspects of they played out the missions way too much.

Phil: Like, you were doing missions for that guy in the Italian restaurant for way too long.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And at a certain point, it's like, okay, I've done like five missions for this guy, and every time he says, if you do this one thing for me, then I'll tell you what you need to know.

Phil: And it's like you, at this point, you're a high level assassin.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: You could basically just grab this guy, take him over to the wood chipper and get the information you want from him, as opposed to going out and killing people and putting yourself in risk of getting arrested.

Phil: And that just happened mission after mission after mission with these small fish telling you, just do this one more thing for me and I'll tell you what you need to know.

Phil: And it's like, no, I mean, it just got tedious.

Phil: So the other thing I really didn't like about it was the whole feature phone stuff with girlfriends calling you up and your cousin calling you up and the rest of it.

Phil: I mean, you could ignore it, but you couldn't ignore it.

Phil: I mean...

Tom: GTA, so you've got to be interested in everything that's going on.

Tom: So you can't just ignore a feature in GTA, especially if it's been shoving your face.

Tom: You're compelled to look into it, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: And so it was with...

Phil: And that was a failing of more of the characters, right?

Phil: So when you had that FBI, CIA bitch, double agent calling you up, wanting to go bowling or whatever, she wasn't a compelling character.

Phil: She wasn't scully.

Phil: She wasn't something interesting.

Phil: Now, when Brucey came along, it was like, yeah, every time Brucey called, I was up for it.

Phil: I'm like, yeah, man, let's go.

Phil: Let's go steal some helicopters or whatever the fuck it is you want to do, because he was a cool character.

Phil: But that was few and far between.

Phil: So it wasn't for me that my favorite Grand Theft Auto IV era game is Lost in the Damned.

Phil: And I think that if people are going in to play Grand Theft Auto V, they really are doing themselves a disservice if they don't first play Lost in the Damned and Gay Tony.

Phil: These games can be beaten in to hours, and they really will set you up for an evolution that's occurred at Rockstar North that you may not be aware of.

Phil: Because of the shortness, basically what happens in Lost in the Damned and Gay Tony is they interweave the story of a biker and a security guy for a bar.

Phil: It's not called a bumper.

Phil: What are they called?

Phil: Bouncer.

Tom: Bouncer.

Phil: Right.

Phil: In Gay Tony, you play the role of a bouncer for a guy who owns nightclubs.

Phil: Gay Tony.

Phil: You don't play as Gay Tony.

Phil: And in Lost in the Damned, you're basically playing a guy who is in a Hell's Angel type motorcycle gang whose leader has recently come back from jail.

Phil: You've been in charge.

Phil: The leader has come back from jail, and he's trying to relinquish control over the group.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: In subtle ways.

Phil: So you're trying to play deference to this guy because you love and respect him, but at the same time, the leader is kind of a fuck up, and he's trying to basically undoing all the progress that you've done.

Phil: At first, when I played Lost in the Damned, I was repulsed by the content.

Phil: Because you're a member of the gang?

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: Lost in the Damned.

Phil: Because I'm not a member of a biker gang, and I find them typically...

Phil: I know this is a shock to most of our listeners, but I'm not a member of a biker gang, like the Thinks or the Hells Angels.

Phil: And I find what those groups do to be mostly repulsive.

Tom: You know, I'm offended by this as a member of a biker gang.

Phil: You would probably like Lost in the Damned right off the bat, but for me, these were the truest characters that have ever been portrayed in video gaming, other than some of the characters that you see in games like Enslaved.

Phil: I mean, these were real people.

Phil: You were living in a real setting.

Phil: It doesn't glamorize violence.

Phil: And it was just a real evolution for Rockstar.

Phil: Gay Tony went back basically in response to the Saints Row franchise and embraced all of the craziness that was missing from Grand Theft Auto IV but present in Grand Theft Auto III, San Andreas and...

Tom: By City.

Phil: By City.

Phil: But they also include some amazing shooter sequences.

Phil: There are some first person or third person shooting sequences in Gay Tony that rival Call of Duty at its highest level, where you're going through shooting up office buildings or retail locations, taking cover.

Phil: It's just a really amazing thing.

Phil: And then another thing that Gay Tony added...

Tom: We really like saying things are as good as or better than Call of Duty on this podcast.

Phil: We are.

Phil: I mean, basically, I think on our website where we post our reviews, we should just change our scoring mechanism.

Tom: Worse than, as good as or better than Call of Duty.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: And then at the end of each level in Gay Tony, they do like a Ninja Gaiden thing where they will rank your performance, like how many secrets you found and the time you beat it in or like the end of a Doom level.

Phil: And I can see that coming back.

Phil: So how does all of this inform Grand Theft Auto V?

Phil: Basically, in Grand Theft Auto IV, they had the three different stories.

Phil: They show them intertwining, and it was brilliant.

Phil: I mean, you go back to that museum heist and you play it in the first game as Niko, you play it in the second game as the biker, you play it in the third game as the Gay Tony bouncer dude.

Phil: And they have all of the same scenes, but from a different angle, in a Tarantino kind of way.

Phil: And it's brilliant, and they know it's brilliant.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto IV would have been a much better game if they had had hours of Niko, hours of Lost in the Damned and hours of Gay Tony.

Phil: And that's what it looks like what we're getting with Grand Theft Auto V.

Phil: You did not play either of those expansions, right?

Tom: No, I did not.

Tom: GTA IV put me off playing any other GTA IV games.

Phil: Well, what if I were to tell you that there were games available that were like GTA IV, but a third of the length, way more intense, contained better gameplay, better characters and better story and dialogue?

Tom: Well, what if I tell you that I bought the complete GTA pack on Steam for $for this very purpose?

Phil: And what if I were to tell you that you should probably play them sooner rather than later?

Tom: I would say if they're about hours each, that's probably not going to happen anytime soon.

Phil: So, God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it.

Phil: And so it was.

Phil: Which brings us to GTA Chinatown Wars, a game that stands out by itself as an island.

Phil: Released initially for the DS, eventually it came out for the PSP and then the iPhone.

Phil: My two favorite GTA games are Lost in the Damned and Chinatown Wars.

Phil: It has an Asian-American protagonist.

Phil: And it's really a great game.

Phil: It's basically like an Asian drug dealer.

Phil: I love that game.

Phil: I think it's amazing.

Phil: In fact, just thinking about it right now wants me to go back and play it.

Tom: And this didn't do too well though.

Tom: You've got this theory that Asian protagonists don't sell well, right?

Phil: Well, non-white protagonists don't sell.

Tom: Okay, so black ones are fine, and Latinos are not fine.

Tom: I mean, black and Latinos are not fine either, is what you say.

Phil: I think in the Rockstar world, they understand that if they set a game outside of the United States of America, it will not sell.

Phil: And if they have a protagonist that is not European, that it will not sell.

Tom: So, explain San Andreas to me.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, that's the exception, obviously.

Phil: I mean, San Andreas came at a point where the PlayStation had the maximal install base and off the back of two incredibly successful video games.

Phil: I mean, people were not going to buy San Andreas just because it had a black protagonist.

Phil: And also, in Western culture, he was playing a hip hop type character.

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

Phil: Which is widely accepted by the greater community.

Phil: If he were a black college professor, I'm not quite sure that it would have sold as well.

Phil: In fact, in Vice City Story...

Tom: I'm not sure if Grand Theft Auto with a white college professor as the main character would have sold as well either though.

Phil: Vice City Story is you play the part of an African American also, but he's a member of the military.

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: People say all the time, why don't they do a GTA in London?

Phil: Why don't they do a GTA in Paris?

Phil: Why don't they do a GTA in Budapest or whatever?

Phil: It's just not going to happen.

Phil: Which brings us up to Malachi.

Phil: Behold, I will corrupt your seed and spread dung on your face.

Tom: Faces.

Phil: Faces, sorry.

Phil: I got that wrong.

Tom: I don't mean to correct you on knowledge of the Bible, as you are the preacher.

Phil: And so, the question is, will Grand Theft Auto V corrupt your seed?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: And will it spread dung on your face?

Tom: Undoubtedly.

Phil: Actually, it was Saints Row that spread dung on your face.

Phil: They had the sewage trucks.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So, do you want to watch the GTAtrailer?

Phil: You haven't seen it before, right?

Phil: So, are you ready to watch it?

Tom: I'm ready to watch it.

Tom: I don't want to watch it, but I'm going to watch it for the sake of the podcast.

Tom: So, do I need to click on one of these people?

Phil: I'm just going to click back early on the timeline.

Phil: There you go.

Phil: And then we'll watch them in order.

Phil: First one is Michael.

Tom: Some topless guy jogging.

Tom: Pilates.

Phil: Basically, we see a Tony Soprano type character living in Los Angeles.

Phil: And he's got an upper middle class lifestyle.

Phil: He's miserable, even though he's rich and has everything.

Phil: You see cash trucks exploding.

Phil: He's talking to his therapist here.

Tom: And he's got a very small mouth and some sort of speech impediment.

Tom: And it looks like he's having a stroke when he speaks.

Phil: Oh my god, there's a shotgun and a bank heist, helicopters.

Phil: This is fucking awesome.

Phil: Oh, someone just got shot.

Phil: A jet and a plane and cops.

Tom: Cars exploding.

Phil: And the guy says, I think you need a therapist.

Tom: That guy looked rather unhealthy to me.

Phil: We're going to pause here.

Phil: So we just watched the Michael trailer.

Phil: That was damn impressive.

Phil: How are you not impressed by that?

Tom: Not impressed by it.

Tom: I never said I wasn't impressed by it.

Tom: That was impressive.

Phil: Don't you want to pre-order the game right now?

Tom: No.

Phil: Holy shit, did you see the jet?

Tom: No.

Phil: And the helicopters and the guy, the Tony Soprano and the therapist and I think you have a violence problem.

Phil: Come on!

Tom: It looks good.

Phil: I want to take this game, put it in a syringe and inject it into my arm.

Phil: This looks amazing!

Tom: The thing that I take from this is the bizarre mouth of Michael.

Tom: That's the thing that stood out to me.

Phil: It's too small?

Tom: The man and the guy in the G-string.

Phil: I missed the guy in the G-string.

Tom: He jumped out of a window over a pop-plant.

Phil: That was the best part.

Tom: You go on about the cars exploding and shit like that.

Tom: If there was anything that would make you want to pre-order, it was that scene.

Phil: It's important to note, people at home, that Tom Towers' problem with Grand Theft Auto V is that Michael's mouth is too small, and that he was distracted by the guy in the G-string.

Tom: No, that was the good part.

Tom: And you had a reasonable bulge, you see.

Tom: My problem is, I'm just thinking that there might be an issue with the small mouth compared to the size of that bulge, by the way.

Phil: Okay, so on to the Franklin part of the trailer.

Phil: You ready?

Phil: One, two, three, click.

Phil: Here we go.

Phil: Franklin, African American.

Tom: This one known as Token.

Phil: Okay, we got some sirens here.

Phil: We see some Grove Street hoodies.

Phil: Guy gets shot with a, like a, looks like an AK.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: I'm just waiting for someone to say, oh no, you didn't.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Oh, a Ferrari.

Phil: And cops, helicopters, strippers, butts.

Phil: And a lot of talking.

Phil: A lot of...

Tom: Well, black people talk a lot.

Tom: We all know that.

Phil: That's why Oprah was so successful.

Phil: Okay, now they're driving down an LA reservoir, Terminator style.

Phil: Guy gets shot in the head with a shotgun.

Phil: Shooting at a helicopter with a shotgun, that's not going to work.

Phil: It's clearly Grove Street.

Phil: They're in green.

Phil: Got an SUV going down the freeway, shooting at LAPD.

Phil: Guy in a white singlet, like CJ?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: That was less impressive than the first one.

Phil: Okay, so we'll pause there.

Phil: That was Franklin's trailer.

Phil: So, your impressions?

Tom: Disappointing.

Tom: I mean, that one was after the Franklin trailer.

Tom: That's pretty damn boring.

Tom: It's a bunch of black people talking, then a strip club and a couple of police.

Tom: Right?

Tom: I mean, that's a major let down after the first one.

Phil: It is.

Phil: I was hoping for like a Will.i.am type music video.

Phil: You know, the one where he's running and then he's like, you know, in a car and he's on a bike and a helicopter and a jet plane.

Tom: I mean, you can't have Michael as the first one and then follow it up with something like that.

Phil: That's pretty poor.

Phil: I mean, how, you know, the other thing is, how do you compete with Queen?

Phil: That should have been the end, you know?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Okay, so overall...

Tom: Pacing wise, that shortly would have been better at the end.

Tom: Just build up to that as the climax.

Phil: Yeah, I think so, but I think they're probably concerned about people leaving before the end.

Phil: So, now we're going to go into Trevor.

Phil: Now, do you know anything about this trailer at all?

Tom: I know, before watching this, I knew nothing about any of the trailers.

Phil: Okay, so you're pumped about Michael.

Phil: A little bit let down about Franklin.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I think they could have put it off if they had a much better rap soundtrack.

Tom: If you stick in some good rap there to set the scene better.

Tom: I mean, the music was just sort of like a continuation from the first trailer.

Phil: No, the music in the Franklin section was just basically generic background music.

Phil: Whereas with the Radio Gaga, it basically made you want to...

Tom: It fitted what was happening.

Tom: It fitted the class.

Tom: I mean, you've got to have something to go with the environment.

Phil: OK, so now we're going to go on to the third part of the trailer.

Phil: This is for someone called Trevor.

Phil: Trevor.

Phil: Looks like a baseball player.

Phil: He's got a baseball bat.

Tom: Playing baseball Yakuza style, I think.

Phil: OK, so we're seeing a trailer park in Southern California.

Phil: And it seems like he's interacting with Michael.

Tom: Yup.

Phil: OK, a biplane.

Tom: Strangling old people.

Phil: He's got lots of punching and I'm liking the level of male partial nudity so far that I'm seeing.

Phil: OK, we're back in LA now.

Phil: And he's using a shotgun to blow up a large truck.

Tom: Playing country music.

Phil: A little crazy guy.

Phil: A little guy, looks like the guy from Sling Blade.

Tom: You know, I think the reason they've put both these trailers last is that they're crap.

Phil: Yeah, that last one was poor.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I don't know why they did that.

Phil: That was poor.

Phil: OK, so the first one...

Tom: Maybe I could have put it off.

Tom: Once again, the music choice is horrible.

Tom: They needed to go with something much more country and western than that.

Tom: That was like easy listening country and western, right?

Tom: You're gonna hear that in a lift or something.

Tom: You're not gonna hear that in a trailer park being blasted.

Tom: Right?

Phil: That was terrible.

Phil: And that is obviously the part that they're putting in to appeal to people who like GTA right?

Phil: I mean, that's gonna be the crazy, wacky guy who's driving the biplanes and all the rest of it.

Phil: I would have much...

Phil: Like the Michael character, the Tony Soprano-Mafiosa guy, that's like Rockstar's wheelhouse.

Phil: They own that, they understand that.

Phil: They're basically that.

Phil: They're white people.

Phil: They get that.

Phil: The next character, that's fine.

Phil: They did a good job in San Andreas with that.

Phil: That's fine.

Phil: They really didn't embarrass themselves there other than with the music selection.

Phil: But with the third one, why wouldn't you go back to like the Lost in the Damned character, or something like that, or the gay Tony bouncer guy, the Hispanic guy?

Tom: Wouldn't that be somewhat redundant following Michael going by what you've said about these characters, given that they're more realistic, with more depth to them?

Tom: I mean, that's Michael, basically, as far as we can tell from this trailer, right?

Phil: I see what you're saying.

Phil: You're saying that because I don't want an arcadey character in my Grand Theft Auto, then if we just continue having prototypes of Michael, but different races, that doesn't really advance the game much, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: No, I see your point.

Tom: I think the main problem is they failed to sell it so badly.

Phil: That was pathetic.

Phil: So we'll jump basically straight into the news that has come up about Grand Theft Auto

Phil: What do you got on that front, Tom?

Tom: Basically just one absolutely terrible and completely pointless and meaningless article by nintendoenthusiast.com.

Tom: So this is posted by Manashi.

Tom: And this is apparently a feature.

Tom: And this feature consists of him saying he asked his retailer source, which could well have simply been some guy that works at EB Games or GameStop, whatever it's called, in most of the world.

Tom: And this guy said GTAwas being tested on the Wii U kits for some time.

Tom: And that's what the story consists of.

Phil: So this guy goes into a GameStop and says, hey, what if you heard about Grand Theft Auto and the Wii U?

Phil: And the clerk says...

Tom: That he knows it's being tested on Wii U dev kits.

Phil: Then let's write up a story in the net, god damn it.

Phil: That's a retailer's source.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: They didn't want to be named, so it's an unnamed source.

Tom: So you don't need to say that it was just some random guy in a GameStop.

Phil: My serious question surrounding this is, and this is a serious question, I know this only comes up once every nine shows, but my serious question is, why isn't this game being released for the Wii U?

Tom: Now, I would say GTA China could well have simply scared them off from Nintendo completely.

Tom: That did not do well, did it?

Tom: Or am I misremembering?

Phil: No, you're right.

Phil: It flopped.

Phil: I mean, they made possibly the greatest non-RPG DS game ever.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Phil: They put real thought into how to use the stylus, the touch screen, the dual screens.

Phil: I mean, it was a perfect execution of a DS game.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Which is, it just blows my mind, because you think about like all the developers out there who are amazing, who don't release games for certain platforms, and you're like, guys, if you only did this, it's great for us, the people that buy the game.

Phil: It's just terrible for them commercially.

Phil: So, you think Chinatown Wars has scared them off.

Tom: Because I wouldn't, I really don't see Rockstar in general as being shy about releasing their things on everything right.

Tom: I mean...

Tom: They go for as much as they can.

Tom: And so, to me, Chinatown, the only area where they were slightly sceptical was Nintendo.

Tom: And so, Chinatown Wars seems to me a test.

Tom: So, they're not going to go and make a full console, GTA for a Nintendo console, or even port one over.

Tom: They're going to make a slightly more niche one in a market where they think, maybe we can tap into a different market than we're currently serving, right?

Tom: And so, they did this, and it just didn't hit the mark for the market that they were going after whatsoever.

Phil: Yeah, and what supports your argument is that, you know, that ping pong game they made, that was a natural to bring over to the Wii, and they never did.

Phil: They did?

Tom: Yeah, they did.

Tom: They brought that to Wii, don't you remember?

Phil: No, I don't.

Tom: Yeah, they did.

Phil: Sorry, listeners.

Phil: So, yeah, okay, well, that was my question.

Phil: I just look at the Wii U, though, and I go, okay, it's got better tech than the current gen systems.

Phil: They have the money to develop it.

Phil: They have the time to develop it in terms of porting it over.

Phil: Why don't you do it?

Phil: Even if you don't use the game pad, which would have tremendous opportunities for them, I just don't understand it.

Phil: I mean, I really don't understand it.

Phil: I think this game should be coming out on the Wii U, and it wouldn't hurt them unless they think that the install base is so low or they think that Nintendo console owners are not in their demographic.

Tom: Well, that's the only plausible explanation that I can come up with with the DSbecause as I said, contrary to popular opinion around here, they did in fact port the ping pong game to the Wii, right?

Tom: They basically released their games on everything they possibly can.

Phil: Yeah, they do.

Phil: I mean, even iPhones.

Phil: I mean, even though they're terrible, terrible ports, so they obviously don't have any respect for their games.

Phil: Otherwise, they wouldn't be porting these over to iPads and iPhones and things like that, where the games just are broken.

Phil: I mean, completely inoperable.

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, that's interesting.

Phil: But at this point, we do want to welcome everyone to episode four of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Yep, that was our introduction.

Phil: Little did we know that nine years later, Rockstar would release a very, very mediocre version of the, or re-release rather, of the first games in the Grand Theft Auto franchise they obviously didn't care.

Phil: As much as you did for listening to this retrospective of the Grand Theft Auto series up until Grand Theft Auto V.

Game Under Podcast 141

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Intro

0:00:11 Muck Bang Style

First Impressions - Gran Turismo 7 Tom Towers

0:02:05 Gran Turismo 7

0:02:17 Asphalt Legends 9, a brief mention.

0:04:30 Back to Gran Turismo 7

Final Impressions - A short Hike -Both Hosts

0:33:04 A Short Hike

Featurette Hacking the SNES - Phil Fogg

0:42:04 Hakchi and Mini Consoles, the dark art of making legitimate back-up copies available on the NES and SNES mini.

0:51:40 Thermal Paste Wizardry

Final Impressions - Metamorphosis - Both Hosts

0:53:01 Metamorphosis, a Kafka inspired game by Ovid

1:02:15 The Franz Kafka Videogame

1:09:08 Psychonauts 2 - a brief mention.

Transcript
Tom: Hello, and welcome to Episode of the Muck Under Podcast, Australia's longest running and greatest Muckbang Podcast.

Tom: Today, I will be eating salmon pasta, a salad.

Tom: And a mountain wrap with butter.

Tom: I'm your host, Tom Towers, and I'm joined by my co-host, Phil Fogg, who is, I believe, on a diet at the moment, unfortunately.

Phil: I wish I wasn't joining you.

Phil: I'm not really into hearing food sounds, as much as people are not into hearing me open cans and other things while we're podcasting.

Phil: What did you call us?

Phil: A muck under?

Tom: Muck under.

Phil: Is that some internet thing for eating food on the internet?

Phil: Mukbang?

Tom: Mukbang is YouTube channels where people eat food.

Phil: Mukbang.

Tom: Yeah, mukbang.

Phil: And is it Cambodian or Vietnamese?

Tom: Neither of those.

Tom: Korean.

Phil: Oh, really?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: And what's a Korean for?

Phil: Recording a podcast while eating?

Tom: I think so.

Phil: Well, thanks everyone for joining us.

Phil: It's just been one week since the last episode, so we are surprised, but we've got more to talk about.

Phil: We're going to be going over Tom's impressions of Gran Turismo Final Fantasy impressions as well as news about Short Hike and our joint review of that.

Phil: And I'll be talking about adventures in archiving your collection legally using Hack Chi, and probably some more too.

Phil: I think we'll have plenty of time today.

Phil: Did you want to get straight into, now that you've buck-muck-banged, are you want to get right into Gran Turismo ?

Phil: You kind of surprised me at the end of the last episode by saying that you had impressions of it.

Phil: I think you said it was both the best racing game ever made and the worst simultaneously.

Tom: Well, I said it was revolutionary and also a ship fest, I believe.

Phil: Oh, speaking of, before I forget, Asphalt Legends, I've been playing that on Switch as well, so that might come up while we're talking about Gran Turismo

Tom: It runs horrendously.

Phil: Does it run horrendously?

Tom: Yes, it does.

Phil: I think the only horrendous thing about it is the endless attempts to upsell and the microtransactions.

Phil: Also, I get the sense that they're really rubber-banding me because I'm a new user and they're trying to make me feel like I'm really good at the game, so I invest money in the game.

Tom: I would agree with both those comments, but the frame rate is frames per second to begin with and there are numerous moments of slowdown.

Phil: I've got to say, actually, I was playing it last night and there were times where I could not steer, like I'd go to go left and it wouldn't let me go left, like it would let me accelerate but it wouldn't let me go left for like what seemed like two seconds, but obviously when you're driving at a high speed, you know, it probably wasn't that long, but it was at least noticeable where I was like, what's going on?

Phil: Is my controller broken or?

Tom: Was that you just stuttering, do you think?

Phil: I think so.

Phil: It was pretty intensive.

Phil: It was like the San Francisco stunt level.

Phil: So there was a lot of stuff going on and cop cars toppling all over each other and ramps and all sorts of things.

Tom: So, so it's noticeable to you.

Phil: Yes, that must be pretty bad.

Phil: That's exactly right.

Phil: I otherwise enjoyed it.

Phil: It was a pretty short download.

Phil: But again, it's the same thing I don't like about what's that racing game from Microsoft Forza Horizon?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: I just, I just hate having a map that's filled with stuff that you don't know if you have to pay for it or not, or cars that you don't know if you're going to have to pay for it or not, you know?

Phil: I just like to have a pure, and I know this is ridiculous, but I'd like to have a purer experience where if I want to go and buy a car, I can go buy a car.

Phil: I don't want, I don't want to be tricked into it sort of thing.

Phil: And I, I understand this probably gets us straight into Gran Turismo

Phil: You said it was a shit show.

Phil: Is it, is that to do with the microtransactions or is it something worse?

Tom: It's both in terms of the in-game economy and the microtransactions.

Tom: Essentially the rate at which you get credits is several times slower than previous Gran Turismo games, which were already obviously extremely grindy.

Tom: An example of this is the McLaren Fis million credits in the game.

Tom: To get the McLaren Fwould require probably around to hours of grinding for that individual car or you could spend, I think it's about $on credits instead.

Tom: So even the microtransactions for credits are just completely absurd in what their pricing is.

Tom: So first of all, having microtransactions in a Gran Turismo game implemented at such a ridiculous level is absurd or any game, sorry.

Tom: But another annoying thing is that goes totally against what Gran Turismo games have previously been like, and this one is supposed to be a return to a traditional Gran Turismo style career mode, is when you are trying to buy a certain car, it may only be available to purchase for a limited time, and you have to get it then, or you can't get it.

Tom: And things like that, and the used car dealership, which there were similarities to in the past, will rotate cars in and out, which is fine some of the time, but if for the expensive cars and special cars that people might want to be purchasing, that wasn't really the case in the past, and now they're doing a similar thing there.

Tom: So it is much more in the vein of how Forza Horizon works, and it really does not fit the style of Gran Turismo at all, and with the way the economy is set up and the microtransactions, it's also obviously extremely exploitative on a completely different level to the Forza Games, which have a similar sort of structure for a lot of the car purchases.

Phil: So, Gran Turismo Sport, that was the one that came, the last one, of course, and that's where they introduced all of these elements that was released in and really, I mean, there was people who are very dedicated to Gran Turismo Sport, I mean, and apparently they just kept releasing content for it ridiculously.

Phil: Like, we're really generous with the content, but I guess that they were also introducing these microtransactions.

Phil: So, when you were saying that you were under the impression that Gran Turismo was going to be a return to a traditional model, you probably weren't thinking they were going to eschew all of those microtransactions.

Tom: No, but you would not have expected these structural things, like rotating cars in and out, for example.

Phil: Right, yeah, I heard about that, that they have basically, what do you call it, chests or whatever, lotteries or blind packs where you can get the right to buy a certain type of game, but then that's on a timer as well.

Phil: You would have to get that four million credits together over the next days if you wanted to cash in or redeem that opportunity, which is really ridiculous.

Phil: And then for cars to cost, I've heard up to $you said $for the McLaren.

Phil: That's ridiculous for a McLaren anyway, but I read Yamauchi or Yamauchi, and I apologize, I'm never getting his last name right, but the director of it, Kazunori Yamauchi, Yamauchi, it's probably, was saying, oh, well, we wanted to make it like in real life, like it's really hard to get those cars in real life, it should be really hard to get them in game.

Phil: But I think that would be fine if this game was a free to play game.

Phil: But this is a full priced, what, like in Australia, bucks, or in the US, or bucks, right?

Phil: And then on top of that, to pay more than double what you paid for the actual game for a car, that's ridiculous.

Phil: I mean, it's ridiculous to me.

Tom: I think it's ridiculous to any reasonable person.

Tom: And I don't think the following real life pricing is really accurate because, I mean, it's a fair argument because Halo cars and unicorns, et cetera, in previous Gran Turismos required a lot of time and effort to get as well.

Tom: But it was in a reasonable manner.

Tom: I don't think it's really reasonable to have to grind for hours to get a single car.

Phil: Well, that was part of his argument as well.

Phil: He said, we don't want people grinding hours to get these cars.

Phil: So instead, you have to pay $of real world money.

Phil: I'm pretty sure...

Phil: Well, OK, which means you've just got to grind in real life.

Phil: You've got to be like, OK, I guess I'm going to do some overtime this week.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Phil: As opposed to sitting on my couch playing a game that I like.

Tom: Well, what's the minimum wage in America?

Tom: Is it $or something?

Phil: No, it's not that low, but I don't remember at this point.

Phil: It's probably around $

Tom: Let's say it's $for easy maths here.

Tom: So if you were working minimum wage and you wanted to get a $car, that would then take hours of grinding in real life anyway.

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And that's without you paying for...

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: It came......whatever you needed in your life.

Phil: It came off as greedy.

Phil: I'm sorry if I'm bursting your presentation here, because then a week later they came out and they gave a million credits to everyone.

Tom: Yes, they did.

Phil: So which is significant, right?

Tom: And have promised to improve the rewards for races.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So I credit them for at least acknowledging the problem.

Tom: Which is good.

Tom: I should add two details here is one, review copies did not feature the in-game economy.

Tom: So no reviewers had access to any of this, which is a just totally disgusting practice.

Tom: And two, they made the in-game economy significantly worse in a prior update.

Tom: And they've now, that's what they're promising to fix and potentially improve things in general.

Tom: So this, the game was released in a way that was not accessible to reviewers and you would hope that some reviewers would have commented on.

Tom: And then after the game was released, they patched it to essentially encourage the purchasing of microtransactions even more than how the game functioned at launch.

Tom: So it's a pretty horrendously handled launch of the game.

Tom: And this is basically the absolute bare minimum you would hope them to be doing.

Phil: I think, yeah, I think as a reviewer, I'd be pretty annoyed at that.

Phil: You would at least, and I can honestly, I can see the technical reasons why it would have been difficult for them to introduce the economy, but there should have been like a press kit or a lot of, a very good explanation of, hey, just so you know, this is the range of in-game purchases that will be available, you know, and really break that down, even if it's just a one page summary so that the reviewer goes, oh, okay, I can, I can weigh that in or at least mention it in the review that this wasn't available to me, but they've let us know that, you know, in-game purchases could be as much as this and for this reason, not something that happens a week and a half after the game's release, where you've already given it, in the case of videogamer.com, a out of or IGN a out of

Phil: And then you see some of the later reviews, you know, that got lower scores, it was probably because they were outlets that had to wait until after release to review the game.

Phil: So, you know, it is it's terrible for me because like the wait between Gran Turismo and has been so long and Gran Turismo was and may remain to be, I know it's a gaming royalty sort of thing.

Phil: I know people really love the game and continue to enjoy it.

Phil: And that sport had a tremendous following.

Phil: So like, it's good that the game is still good.

Phil: Well, we haven't got to that yet.

Phil: You might something might be coming up next.

Phil: But it's sad that the game had to be solid with this.

Phil: And again, if you're doing free to play or like, you know, releasing it as a game pass type situation where Sony is giving it away to everyone, which would be, I think, good marketing and just smart because these games live and die on their active users and make the money up.

Phil: We would not be you would not be complaining, right?

Phil: You just go, yeah, that's fine.

Phil: People want to pay, people can pay.

Tom: Yep, exactly.

Phil: And let every someone wants to grind for something that's like, just imagine someone who's, yeah, you know, hasn't got a great income or someone who's young and just enthusiastic about this stuff and may not have a job and you just want to be able to play it and unlock these great cars and you can't.

Phil: Well, can you do it?

Phil: Can you still unlock it?

Phil: I guess you can.

Phil: Like you said, it'd just take hours to do.

Tom: Or longer.

Phil: Yeah, or longer, if you have the right to buy that game because, as you said, these cycle through.

Phil: Do they have, did they bring back the car wash?

Tom: Yes, they did.

Tom: And oil changes.

Phil: Is it free?

Tom: Yes, yes.

Tom: I, well, I don't think it's free in terms of actual money.

Tom: I'm pretty sure oil changes cost in-game credits and I can't remember if the wash does or not.

Phil: It better not.

Phil: Because I know in Asphalt Legends, like I'm, you start out with, I think, six tanks of gas.

Phil: But then you have to wait for like hours to get more petrol again.

Phil: Well, if, are you up, are you done talking about the transactional stuff?

Phil: Are you able to speak to the gameplay itself?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: I think that is all there is to be said on the transactional stuff.

Tom: So, I did say that it was revolutionary.

Tom: And I stand by that statement.

Tom: It is, I think if you've played Gran Turismo Sport, what I've heard is it's not a huge difference in terms of physics to that.

Tom: There are some changes to the grip you have and additions of things like wind affecting how you drive and potentially temperature, etc.

Tom: But there are two things or one thing that is not in Gran Turismo Sport that is a feature that puts it above the majority of PC sims and that is the dynamic weather in the game and how that works.

Tom: And one other thing that is extremely impressive, which I think is less so the case in Gran Turismo Sport as far as I can tell, is the way this game plays on a controller is just incredible.

Tom: The physics are much closer to an actual sim racing experience than other Gran Turismos, with the exception of Gran Turismo Sport.

Tom: But the difference between this and Sport is, there's an extremely over the top snap oversteer, which is not good if you're using a steering wheel.

Tom: It's less realistic.

Tom: But if you're using a controller, because of if you're steering with a thumb stick, obviously you go back and forth much faster than if you're on a wheel.

Tom: Having this very sudden oversteer occur when you start to lose grip, ends up with something that feels more controllable and more realistic and more in line with other sim racing games when you're playing on a steering wheel than any other sim game I played on a controller.

Tom: For instance, if I'm playing Assetto Corsa on a controller, then everything feels very understeery compared to if I'm using a steering wheel.

Tom: Here, it's very much in line with how Assetto Corsa, for example, with a little bit less detail in a lot of areas, feels with a steering wheel where you always have the sense that you can easily oversteer if you want to and sort of start off drifting a little bit and still have a chance of catching it.

Tom: And it's very much unlike any other racing game I've played on a controller.

Tom: So that I think is the most impressive thing about the physics and I think it's the only logical explanation for the introduction of this oversteer because on a steering wheel it is a little bit weird, but it makes perfect sense on a controller.

Tom: So the other thing that is amazing is the weather system.

Tom: The way that the grip gradually changes with the rain beginning and then when it's gone the track drying out, the detail in the dry line developing as you're driving along is again all on the level of the best weather systems in Sims.

Tom: And most PC Sims, which are the better Sims, don't have weather systems as detailed and certainly not as dynamic as this.

Tom: There are a few that do, but most do not.

Tom: So that is again amazing to have on a console game.

Tom: And the other thing that is really enjoyable about it, again, which is great to have in a...

Tom: that is not there in other serious Sim games, and I'm not sure you could quite necessarily call this a serious Sim game, but it is certainly a proper simulation now, is what Gran Turismo does so great and does adhere to a greater degree than Gran Turismo Sport is the love of motorsport and cars.

Tom: So you begin with the career mode is a little bit different to previous ones, where the main campaign, a lot of it is done through what they call a menu book system, which is you basically visiting a cafe, talking to people there who give you menu books, which consists of races that they want you to do to collect certain cars, and so as you're doing them, they'll be talking to you about cars, and you'll be getting a brief history of the cars you're collecting and all of that sort of thing.

Tom: So all of that was there in previous Gran Turismos, if you wanted to look at that when you're browsing through cars, and that is still there as well, but here it is directly integrated into how the campaign unfolds, which is very enjoyable.

Tom: And again, the wonderful thing about it is that this applies to any sort of car.

Tom: So as you're beginning, one of the first races is you're collecting a Mazda.

Tom: I've forgotten which one it is, but you're also collecting a Toyota Aqua, which is I think one of the names for Prius or is related to the Prius.

Tom: So this is an economy hybrid car that wouldn't be in other racing games, let alone be given its own little story with a description of the history of the car and what made it so great and its importance as a modern car in the car world.

Phil: And that's always been one of the absolute best things about Gran Turismo.

Phil: It's always been a part of the series.

Phil: I think it probably really got out of hand with Gran Turismo

Phil: And then from there, they just didn't stop.

Phil: In talking about starting with those cars, have you tried the career mode?

Phil: Or is there a career mode, I should ask?

Tom: Well, that is the career mode that I was just describing there.

Phil: The cafe thing.

Tom: Yep, exactly.

Tom: There are other things you can do in it.

Tom: There are driving challenges and obviously license tests as well.

Tom: And the license tests, so far I've done the first two, and my experience of them is that they're significantly easier than they used to be.

Tom: Many of them I've passed on my first try, with the exception of one or two.

Tom: The most I've had to repeatedly try them has been two or three times.

Tom: Is to get gold, I should add, not just pass them, but to get gold.

Tom: So thus far, if you enjoyed the ridiculous challenge of the licensed tests in the past, that is probably not there.

Tom: At least it isn't in the first two.

Tom: And from the times I've seen that people are getting on the latter ones, while some of them do appear to be pretty difficult, they're not really comparable to some of the more difficult licensed tests in previous Gran Turismos.

Phil: So if you're just wanting to...

Phil: If you don't want to do the career mode, I'm assuming that there's something for you to do to start this game and start in some relatively decent cars?

Tom: Yep, you can set up custom races, which is basically the arcade mode of previous Gran Turismos.

Tom: And one other interesting thing in the campaign mode is you can actually customize the races you're doing and set them up how you want.

Tom: So that gives you a fair bit more freedom in what you want to do, and you will still earn credits for customizing races.

Tom: But again, the credits for the custom races could be significantly better than it is currently.

Phil: Assuming you're playing this because of our discussion last week on PlayStation unless you managed to pick up a PlayStation in Australia this week?

Tom: I did not.

Phil: Okay, so one thing that I was wondering about, and you wouldn't know of unless you've read into it, is, you know, the PlayStation one of the unique reasons for buying it is the tremendous haptics that they've introduced to their controller this year.

Phil: Have you heard anywhere, you know, as to whether that's pulled off well or...?

Tom: I have heard it is meant to be pulled off very well.

Tom: I think some people have said that it's a lot better than the forced feedback is for steering wheels.

Phil: OK, that's interesting.

Phil: Oh, that's right.

Phil: Yeah, OK.

Phil: Because with the PlayStation I'm not sure if the Xbox one has this as well, but I know for sure the PlayStation one has the ability to actually stop you from pushing the triggers or putting so much resistance on the triggers that it's really difficult to actually push them in.

Phil: You know, it has that degree of sensitivity from very light touch to really strong resistance, which is interesting.

Tom: I think the bigger criticisms of it have been in that area, with the braking being a little awkward when you start to potentially lock up and that sort of thing.

Tom: I think where people have said it shines is in the feedback you get from when you're starting to lose grip or going onto a rumble strip.

Phil: Oh yeah, that would be awesome.

Phil: I'm also thinking it would be funny if they had some of those consumer grade cars with ABS.

Phil: And you got some of that ABS activity, which I absolutely hate, which is why I always turn it off.

Phil: Is it too early to talk about the aesthetics of the game?

Tom: Not at all.

Phil: So it looks absolutely mind-blowing.

Tom: It even does on PSlook mind-blowing.

Tom: I think arguably it looks more amazing on PSthan what it probably looks like on PSjust by the fact that it is running at frames per second consistently on PSwithout any issue whatsoever, because the sharpness of the cars and the level of detail on them is just incredible.

Tom: The reflections are great.

Tom: The tracks look awesome too.

Tom: That it is running on PSis an amazing achievement and that it runs on PSat a consistent FPS with very few moments where it drops below that is an incredible achievement.

Tom: The only thing that is not good about it is the fan noise.

Tom: The PSdoes not like running Gran Turismo at all.

Phil: It doesn't like running.

Phil: Do you have a launch PS?

Tom: Yes, I do.

Phil: Yeah, the wedge.

Tom: Yep, that's right.

Phil: Yeah, I have one as well.

Phil: You can be playing Netflix on it and it starts to really fire up.

Phil: Actually, no, I've moved it now.

Phil: I actually have a PlayStation Game Center now.

Phil: I've got PlayStation and all lined up on its own cabinet with its own TV.

Phil: In large part, yeah, right.

Phil: In large part because I wanted them all to have better cooling, but not really.

Phil: I just wanted a second TV with them all hooked up to it.

Phil: Yeah, it doesn't like it, but it's still living and I'm not going to replace it until it dies.

Tom: This definitely is worse than other games, and I have noticed that once you get to PSPro era games, games really start to make the console run a lot hotter than older games did, and the result is a lot of fan noise.

Phil: Yeah, like God of War, Red Dead Redemption The Last of Us all those games really put it through its paces.

Phil: I definitely noticed.

Phil: Okay, so it looks fantastic.

Phil: What about the audio?

Phil: They've obviously recorded the audio for all these several Gran Turismos ago, and they would have done it in amazing digital, so they can obviously reuse those assets.

Tom: Well, I would assume they've probably redone a lot of the audio, and certainly thus far, my experience is that it's a lot better than previous Gran Turismos.

Tom: It's much less vacuum cleanery in my experience so far, in the cars I've heard, and I think a greater variety in how they sound as well.

Tom: So in terms of audio, it's great as well, and the music is exceptional.

Tom: I should add one hilarious annoyance that is occurring, is there are regular updates, of course.

Tom: After every single update I've had, I have been unable to skip the eight-minute long intro.

Phil: Excellent.

Phil: Excellent.

Phil: I just actually did some internet research.

Phil: It turns out that they kept it in family.

Phil: They actually recorded the sound effects for Gran Turismo and on a Sony Walkman.

Phil: So they probably did go back and re-record those, not on a cassette.

Phil: So you're quite right there.

Phil: But one thing that's been great about Gran Turismo, certainly Gran Turismo had a very memorable soundtrack.

Phil: Gran Turismo was the one with Snoop Dogg, I think, which was probably a low point for the series.

Phil: But the music on this is supposed to be quite good from what I read.

Tom: Yes, it is.

Tom: Snoop Dogg, unfortunately, was going to have music on it, but he removed it to his exclusive streaming platform.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: Is that the one where he advertises his exclusive line of edibles?

Tom: I think so.

Phil: Marijuana, that is, not underwear.

Phil: So, the music.

Tom: Jazzy, as you would hope.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: They've got to have something more than that, though.

Tom: Do they?

Tom: Gran Turismo has generally been a jazzy music with a little bit of rock, too.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, Gran Turismo had garbage and hole and a bunch of other bands that I can't remember.

Phil: Nirvana, maybe?

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, what else do we need to know about?

Phil: First of all, I'm very pleased to hear that it works fantastic, or graphically, at least, on Gran Turismo

Phil: The updates scare me off a fair bit.

Tom: Yeah, you would not be able to play it.

Tom: Probably not.

Tom: And for a start, it is, I think, an over gigabyte installation.

Tom: Then I think the first update was...

Tom: I can't remember what it was exactly, but it was very big.

Phil: Like ?

Tom: Not that big.

Tom: Maybe somewhere around but it could have been less than that.

Tom: I'm not sure.

Phil: That's still pretty bad.

Phil: I'm still downloading an update for Control, which is a video game I got in December.

Phil: So every few nights, I just let it go and download another megabytes.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So overall, your impressions are mostly positive.

Phil: You can play around the microtransaction stuff, I'm assuming.

Tom: Unless you want a McLaren For a variety of other cars.

Phil: Yeah, which, you know, I mean, you'd never have them at this point in the other games either, I would think.

Tom: You might.

Tom: I think if there was a particular car you really wanted, even if it was one of the expensive ones in previous Gran Turismos, as you're going through the career mode, it is usually pretty realistic that you'll be able to get it by the end, whereas I don't think that is the case here.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's just a...

Phil: This has just been mishandled.

Phil: It's just they're out of touch with their fan base, which is understandable.

Phil: I mean, they have obviously a very huge fan base in Japan, but I'd say probably their international audience is at least the same, if not slightly larger, and it's just a shame that their international or Western publishing branches in the US and Europe weren't a part of that process or didn't understand or comprehend it because Gran Turismo has got a great community and great communities deserve better, basically.

Phil: Speaking of a game that's been supported for a ridiculous amount of time, indie dev Adam Robertson Yu made a short hike, ?

Phil: No, I don't even know how long ago it came out.

Phil: I think sounds about right.

Phil: It's available on PC, Linux, Mac, Switch, and probably everything else at this point.

Phil: It's an adventure open world exploration game, which you basically look down at it from a somewhat isometric view.

Phil: It's about a little bird that is going on a camping trip.

Tom: A hiking trip, you might say.

Phil: Yep, a hiking trip, and he's a business bird, but he's very fortunate that, or he's a working bird, he's very fortunate that when he gets to this campground, that he can't get cell phone service.

Phil: And so that's basically how the adventure starts, is he's walking to try and find a better signal.

Phil: Now, why are we talking about a game?

Phil: Just today, a...

Tom: Well, I think it's trying to reach the top of the mountain to be able to get some reception.

Phil: That's it, yes.

Phil: And we'll talk more about the actual game itself, but today a downloadable mod was released for the PC, Mac and Linux, where you can basically play with up to other players simultaneously on Hawk Peak.

Phil: So basically, they've got an online server.

Phil: They're not going to maintain it, but you can download it and run your own server, which is kind of neat.

Phil: For a game that was, I'm assuming, made by a single dude, the fact that it's still getting supported, he's probably done extremely well off it, despite the fact that you and I both picked it up as a part of the itch.io sale of the century last year.

Phil: But it's a notable game.

Phil: If you can't put your finger on it, you'd see a picture of it.

Phil: You immediately know what that game is.

Phil: It was a very popular indie game.

Phil: And it has a very Animal Crossing type vibe, I'd say, in terms of both the character art and the range of activities.

Phil: But in this one...

Tom: And I think the interactions with the characters as well.

Phil: Yeah, very much so, except it's kind of an adult or rather a knowing kind of Animal Crossing.

Phil: Because when you talk to people, they're not just talking in Animal Crossing Simlish.

Phil: They are actually talking back to you and you can have conversations and they can have attitudes.

Phil: It's not all just, you know, cheery stuff.

Phil: And there's...

Tom: Don't some of the characters in Animal Crossing have attitudes?

Phil: They do have attitudes, but you know what I mean.

Phil: You're quite right to point that out.

Tom: What you mean is there are some more adult-themed interactions here.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: I should probably just let you talk about this game, but I'll just say one last thing about it.

Phil: Not one last thing, but the cool thing about it is that they'd have these elements as you're going through this game that introduce a type of gameplay that was really unique and interesting.

Phil: I loved the tactility of this game.

Phil: Some of the activities that you had you do, be it rowing or climbing or playing beach volleyball, they all felt really great from a control perspective.

Phil: It wasn't just the usual flat, indie PC, here you go, play beach volleyball for minutes or five minutes or whatever.

Phil: And for the most part, none of them were repeated.

Phil: The boat piloting as well.

Phil: It wasn't like, oh, here's this thing that we've done, and you're going to be doing this another five times in this game.

Phil: And as you continued throughout the game and you came across these little player vignettes, they were even more delightful because you knew that this was not likely going to be repeated later on in the game.

Phil: Is that a good description of those vignettes?

Tom: I think so, yeah, definitely.

Phil: Only very few games do that.

Phil: I was playing Actraiser on the Super Nintendo last night, and everyone said, oh yeah, Actraiser, great game.

Phil: Trust me, time has not been good to it.

Phil: But the reason why everyone says it's a great game is because it was both a D side-scroller beat-em-up as well as being a top-down sim game.

Phil: At the time, that was back in the s, that was really innovative.

Phil: Oh my gosh, it's not just a D platformer, it's also got this sim element.

Tom: What was it simulating?

Phil: Basically, not sim city, but basically a really watered-down civ, where you've got villages.

Phil: A god game, there you go, a god game, like Populous.

Phil: So, yeah, and Short Hike is just a charming, charming game, as well as being quite poignant.

Tom: Agreed.

Tom: Where was the poignancy, actually?

Phil: Well, it starts out with a working bird, who's just like, oh yeah, I've got to make sure I've got signal for work, and then obviously he goes through this short hike and discovers there's other things that are more important in life, ultimately.

Phil: Like he realizes that he's missing his family, you know.

Phil: And that was the one that's most memorable and stood out to me.

Phil: I'm assuming there was also things in there about work-life balance and things like that.

Tom: There probably were, but I don't think I really found it that poignant.

Tom: I think there were interactions with certain characters on the island, or maybe a little bit in that direction, but I found the protagonist and their conflict to be ultimately rather uninteresting.

Tom: Maybe it was the pacing of the game, and that you are also climbing the mountain and going through the main plot, having these side interactions with other characters, but I wasn't really that moved by it at all.

Tom: I did enjoy it, but I would not have described it as poignant personally.

Phil: I don't think something that's poignant has to be necessarily moving to me individually.

Phil: You can just sort of see that someone's going, oh yeah, okay, I get what they're saying there.

Phil: That's touching, I guess.

Phil: Now I'm putting degrees of moving.

Phil: It's touching, but it's not moving.

Phil: It gives you pause, perhaps.

Tom: Well, here's what I would say.

Tom: I'm going to get a definition of poignant.

Tom: Evoking a keen sense of sadness or regret.

Phil: And I think that that's what the bird was feeling.

Phil: The bird was feeling that.

Phil: I wasn't feeling that, and I wasn't feeling it for the bird.

Phil: The bird was having a poignant experience, not me.

Tom: Maybe the bird was.

Phil: That is for sure.

Tom: So we can't describe the game as poignant.

Phil: I said the game had poignant moments, not for me, but for the bird.

Phil: So I'm looking at it from a third person perspective, I guess.

Phil: From a third person perspective, it had poignant moments for the video game characters in the game.

Tom: I think you may have just invented a whole new style of literary analysis, where we look at solely what the character was feeling with no critical commentary on that whatsoever.

Phil: Yes, indeed.

Phil: Okay, well, do you have anything else you want to share?

Phil: It's obviously worth playing, and I give it a thumbs up.

Phil: I forget how short or long the game was.

Phil: It wasn't a short hike.

Phil: It's not something you can play in one sitting.

Tom: I think it depends on how much you do in it.

Tom: If you were just doing the main story, which would be a little bit awkward because some of the side stuff make climbing certain parts of the mountain a lot easier, you could probably finish it in just a few hours.

Tom: I think if you were collecting everything and doing all the side stuff, it's two or three times longer than that.

Phil: Yeah, I remember playing it for at least over eight hours and over a concentrated period.

Phil: So I played it basically in four settings type thing.

Phil: But yeah, certainly well worth playing and like I said, available on pretty much everything.

Phil: It would probably, as I call most things, good on Switch.

Phil: I just love to see these auteur type projects where someone's got pretty much complete control.

Phil: They have a message.

Phil: I don't like to see them not move on to do something else.

Phil: Before we get into another game that you've been playing, I guess one of the things that I've been spending most of my time with is modding, soft modding, my mini NES, my mini Nintendo and my mini Super Nintendo.

Phil: So the NES and Super NES mini, I think you've got one, haven't you?

Tom: No, I don't.

Phil: You don't.

Tom: I've got an actual SNES.

Phil: Yes, as do I.

Tom: That may be what you're thinking of.

Phil: Yep, okay.

Phil: So obviously I have several NES, Nintendos and Super Nintendos of all sorts around.

Phil: But what was attractive to these is that they're a little Raspberry Pi mini console and it came loaded from Nintendo with games, which if you're waiting for them to give them to you on Switch, would take years to get Super Nintendo games.

Phil: And they're actually good ones.

Tom: Which is still faster than it would take to get all the expensive cars in Gran Turismo

Phil: That's right.

Phil: So you can still pick up a mini Nintendo and Super Nintendo on the gray market for about $to $bucks loose if you want it with a box.

Phil: It costs way more.

Phil: And obviously, well, I don't know if it's obvious, but it comes with a USB.

Phil: It's powered by a USB-C.

Phil: So obviously, once you've got something that's got a USB-C on it, it can be hooked up to a computer.

Phil: And obviously, if you can hook it up with a computer and it's got onboard memory, then it's ripe to be able to put archived games on it.

Phil: So I heard pretty recently after the initial Nintendo had been released that there was a way to get every Nintendo game ever released put onto these systems.

Phil: And people who were talking about it were people that I knew were big in the Nintendo collecting community, people who were not in favor of piracy, people who were not very technical or had much to do with emulation.

Phil: So I figured, well, okay, they're doing it, but I'm still not going to go there.

Phil: I don't want to brick my system or I don't want to risk bricking my system because I've got pretty much no one close around here that would be able to help me put it all back together again.

Phil: So I let time pass and basically when my Retron I updated my Retron which is my primary way of playing original Nintendo and Sega cartridges, I figured, well, what the hell, I'll give it a try after doing a lot of research on it.

Phil: And there's a program out there called Hack Chi, H-A-K-C-H-I, like hacked by Chinese.

Phil: And it's a really neat little program, I assume it's available for Linux, it's available for Windows, where you can essentially just download the program, download the ROMs as legal backups of the games that you already own.

Tom: Or as illegal copies of games you don't already own.

Phil: Oh, I guess you could do that.

Phil: It never occurred to me.

Phil: So what you're saying is, even if you don't own like NES games, you would go and download the ROMs that someone else had made as legal backups.

Tom: It would be theoretically possible to do that, yes.

Phil: And then put it on, using this hack-chi.

Phil: Oh, okay, yep, okay, got it, got it.

Phil: That's interesting.

Phil: So you mean I could download Wall Street Kid.

Tom: Yes, you could.

Phil: But that would be illegal.

Tom: You may have to do it anyway.

Phil: Well, just to see if that's true, what you're saying, because I don't know if that would be true.

Phil: I don't think Nintendo would let that happen, because obviously it would interfere with their tremendous online offerings.

Phil: So now it wasn't without problems, right?

Phil: So I did struggle with this for about two or three days, trying to get it to work.

Phil: You've got to be using the right USB cables.

Phil: You've got to be, you know, and your computer might have...

Tom: Do you mean that in more detail other than you need to use a USB-C cable?

Phil: Well, you actually have to use a USB-C cable that came with the system.

Phil: So, you know, and there are different USB-C cables.

Phil: So if you're just a dummy and you just go, oh, this looks like the same as that, it may not be the same, you know, have the same bitrate or whatever else.

Tom: So I assume if you were using one that had the same level of bitrate as it, it will be okay, or is there some firm where, reason where it does not recognize?

Phil: No, it would be okay.

Phil: And then just for troubleshooting purposes, people just say by default, oh, use the one that came with it.

Phil: There's nothing magical about the one that came with it.

Phil: It's going to have some sort of spec that, you know, these things are not marked on the USB-C's.

Phil: At least I don't know that they are.

Phil: Some of these little numbers might mean something, but in any case, it was risk free because, and the reason why I felt free to do it was because at any point, you can just restore it back to factory.

Phil: Hackchi has a, okay, well, if it doesn't work, try this option, you restore it back to factory.

Phil: And I did that like eight times.

Phil: So it really did, was fine.

Phil: And yeah, it works spectacularly.

Phil: It's got all the same features and you pull it up, and it's just the exact same interface that Nintendo has.

Phil: Well, it is the Nintendo interface, except instead of games, in my case, there's different games.

Phil: And then I did it on the SNES as well.

Phil: So with Hackchi, you can do it for the Genesis, Nintendo, Super Nintendo, and a few other of these mini consoles that have been made.

Phil: So, you know, and like I said, there's absolutely no detrimental impact to it whatsoever.

Phil: You're able to play your games on HDMI.

Phil: And then, of course, -bit Doe has wonderful, you know, wireless controllers that come with little USB dongles that you can plug into the front.

Phil: Because one of the worst things about the SNES mini and this mini was the fact that they came with a cable that's like a meter long.

Phil: So, yeah, but picking up an -bit Doe controller for less than $wireless combined with this is just phenomenal.

Phil: So, yeah, so if you've got an NES and SNES, do your own homework.

Phil: But if someone who's got five fingers like me can get it done, like I said, the reassuring thing is there's always a way to return it back to factory if you screw up or will get cold feet.

Phil: I have also been doing some other stuff.

Phil: I did manage to get my RetroN back up and running, which was fine.

Tom: Before we move on from this, I have to ask when will we be getting Wall Street Kid impressions?

Phil: Probably next week, I'd say, if we record next week.

Tom: Look forward to that.

Phil: I've just started noodling around with RetroArc, which is an emulation software that can be used on other devices, but it can be used on PC as well.

Phil: For me, like I said, I've just started mucking around with it yesterday, but for me, the number one reason I'd want to do that is because I want to pick up an Xbox Core or a Dreamcast Core or a Saturn Core and be able to dump my ROMs into it, because we're talking there probably with those three systems about games, and some of which I can't play right now because the original hardware, even though I've gone out and bought two or three iterations of them, just are not working.

Phil: And the number one reason I want to do it is so I can play those games on PC, so I can take screenshots for retro reviews for gameunder.net, which is the website that we have for this podcast.

Phil: That to me is the number one reason.

Phil: I'm not interested in downloading Dreamcast games that I don't have, because like I said, I've got over Dreamcast games.

Phil: So if there's ones out there that I don't have, I probably don't want it.

Phil: And same for the original Xbox.

Phil: But it would just be a great way for me to be able to get some screenshots as opposed to borrowing or stealing people's content off the internet.

Phil: Yeah, so that's what I've been doing.

Phil: And as with most of these things, it's more fun actually figuring it out and problem solving and getting it done.

Phil: Obviously, the second I figured it all out and got it done, I've barely gone back to actually use those devices because it's always just more fun to figure out how to do it than actually using it.

Phil: Have you ever mucked around with this kind of stuff?

Tom: I have not.

Tom: Actually, yes, I set up a homebrew channel on the Wii and I think the Wii U as well.

Phil: That's risky.

Phil: Well, I would think that's risky.

Tom: I don't think it's risky.

Tom: Again, you can return it to how it was originally if you want.

Tom: And I also after setting them up have not actually used them.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: It was an enjoyable experience setting them up.

Phil: Well, it's like doing a PC build, which we've talked about before.

Phil: I just absolutely loved when I upgraded my current PC under your tutelage.

Phil: I learned so much that I immediately, completely forgot as soon as I'd done it.

Phil: But it was just fantastic.

Phil: And thermal paste, I'm still, that's the thing that stuck with me, is thermal paste is wizardry and witchcraft.

Phil: And it's amazing and incredible because people are like, oh, have you put thermal paste on it?

Phil: I'm like, yeah, right.

Phil: Okay, like what, you know, how big of a difference could thermal paste do?

Phil: Answer is a hell of a lot.

Tom: I think the difference between your CPU breaking or not breaking is the difference.

Phil: Yeah, pretty much.

Tom: Pretty much.

Phil: I was cracking on the guy who bought the new CPU from, going, oh, man, was this working for you because it's not working for me?

Phil: Oh, dude, totally sorry.

Phil: And, you know, it was totally working.

Phil: Hey, man, I don't want my money back.

Phil: You know, I'm not going to give you bad feedback.

Phil: And then you're all, did you put thermal paste on it?

Phil: And I was like, oh, thermal paste, what's that?

Phil: And then I look it up, it's like liquid metal.

Phil: Liquid metal?

Phil: Give me a break.

Phil: It's like a Metal Gear Solid subtitle.

Phil: Liquid metal?

Phil: No.

Phil: In any case, thermal paste.

Phil: Give it a try.

Phil: Okay, so you've been playing some other games as well.

Tom: I've been playing a wide variety of games, but why don't we go to another game we both play, which is Metamorphosis.

Phil: Ah, yes, Metamorphosis.

Tom: I think it's Metamorphosis.

Phil: Metamorphosis, right.

Phil: That's when a bug turns into a butterfly.

Tom: Yes, exactly.

Phil: This is a game by Ovid Works.

Phil: I remember that much.

Phil: And it's available for, again, pretty much everything.

Phil: Released in

Phil: It's on Switch, Xbox One, PlayStation PC.

Phil: It has a very low score.

Phil: Well, it doesn't have a very low score.

Phil: It has a good score, I guess, on Metacritics.

Phil: Basically out of

Phil: And do you want to give the overview of this game?

Tom: Well, it's an adaptation of Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka, essentially.

Phil: That's a German game that came out for the Amiga, I think.

Tom: I believe that's a Czech novella that came out in printed form.

Tom: Actually, it may not have come out in printed form until he was dead.

Tom: I can't remember if that was one of the works published during his lifetime or not.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And obviously I was joking.

Phil: By Kafka, who's one of my favourite authors, you probably think he's a hack.

Phil: I'm guessing.

Tom: Not at all.

Phil: Oh.

Tom: No, he is very good.

Tom: Very good indeed, I would say.

Tom: And the game called Metamorphosis is unfortunately not actually an adaptation of Metamorphosis.

Tom: It basically adapts multiple of his works at once and sticks them all together in a way that is, in some ways uses the idea of some of his themes where, whether he is actually depicting bureaucracies or using bureaucracies as a metaphor or not is up for debate.

Tom: But essentially it combines multiple of his stories in the one bureaucratic system.

Tom: So it begins with the protagonist being transformed into a creature of a cockroach like demeanor.

Tom: But then, as you're travelling around attempting to work out what is going on, elements of other stories are introduced, and it's all leading up to you having some sort of confrontation with this bureaucratic system in the tower from another of his stories.

Tom: So I think there's no need to do that because it's a two or three hour game, and the amount of content there is in Metamorphosis is easily enough to support a two or three hour game, or a twenty or thirty hour game, or a two hundred or three hundred hour game, if you're actually going to be taking the story seriously.

Tom: I think this was very much the easy way out, and resulted in something that at times was basically just using Kafka or something to make references to, as opposed to actually explore.

Tom: There are some moments that I think are pretty spectacular and do interesting things with the subject matter at least aesthetically, like the lawyer's office where you are exploring his desk, and it's a very interesting platforming level using elements of that.

Tom: There is also, I think, the castle level at the end looks very impressive as well, but for the most part, I think it's in many ways a missed opportunity, because it is apparent that the people making it loved the subject matter, but they don't really do that much with it, unfortunately.

Phil: There's lots of tips of the hat and nods to Kafka throughout, and that's pretty obvious.

Phil: Yeah, I just looked them up.

Phil: They're a small team of about people from Poland.

Phil: And just to be abundantly clear about it, this is an action platformer that you play in first person.

Phil: So that comes with some clumsiness, because as we all know, first person platforming is rarely pulled off extremely well.

Phil: I'd say probably it's gotten a lot better over the years.

Phil: Certainly, what's the name of that game from EA?

Tom: Mirror's Edge.

Phil: Mirror's Edge, probably.

Tom: Which is better than most third person platformers.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: And I see here that they play VR games.

Phil: I mean, this game would translate to VR, but I even found myself...

Phil: Like, you're walking around as a cockroach type insect, and I found myself pretty nauseous for most of the time I was playing it, and I was just playing it, obviously, without VR.

Phil: I don't even know if there is a VR version of this game.

Tom: I don't think there is, but there should be.

Phil: Yeah, there really should be, because it would translate very easily.

Phil: I don't know anything about programming for VR, but it seems to me like this would be a one-for-one type thing.

Phil: And the platforming itself was not that difficult.

Phil: It was more a matter of figuring out where you had to go and what you could do next sort of thing.

Phil: Though I did find some tricky jumps that I had trouble making time and time and time again.

Phil: Visually...

Tom: I think the platforming worked pretty well.

Tom: For me, the more awkward moments were...

Tom: I think there were some stealth sections which were a pain for me.

Phil: Yeah, I didn't so much mind those.

Phil: It was really more the platforming elements for me, not really knowing when I could jump or what I could jump and what my limits were.

Phil: I should mention also that there is a free demo of this available on Steam, if you missed out on one of the sales of the century, which I think is how we picked it up.

Tom: I'm not sure how we picked it up.

Tom: It may have been one of them.

Phil: Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Phil: Visually, it's obviously a caricatured realism.

Tom: I think it's very much inspired fittingly by expressionism.

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

Tom: I would say.

Phil: I think there's something missing in this game, but I think in terms of its cohesiveness, I do think it's very cohesive in terms of its theme, its appearance and what they're trying to achieve.

Phil: There's a lot of thought that went into it, but for me, it just didn't come home as a complete thought exercise or even an enjoyable type thing.

Phil: It was just a lot of, yeah, okay, yeah, I get it.

Phil: That's a reference.

Phil: It's the same criticism that was leveled at that Grand Theft Auto cloned by Brian Provinciano.

Tom: Shake Down Hawaii, Retro City Rampage.

Phil: Yeah, Rampage City, River City Rampage.

Tom: Retro City Rampage.

Phil: Retro City Rampage.

Phil: Thank you.

Phil: We get there eventually.

Phil: It's why our podcasts are three hours long.

Phil: It's me going, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy Chan.

Phil: Tommy Chan, Tommy Chan.

Phil: You know that reference, Reservoir Dogs, if you don't.

Phil: I remember that.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: So what you're saying is this should be a film podcast?

Phil: Yeah, it probably should be.

Phil: Thank God I edit this thing.

Phil: So it's never a short hike with me.

Phil: So metamorphosis, again, I didn't particularly enjoy it.

Phil: It probably had more to do with the nausea that I was having.

Tom: Well, I was also quite nauseous when I played, or at least in a reasonable amount of pain and feverish, because this was the game that I played after my first vaccine dose, which was the only one that had any sort of effect.

Tom: And that was basically the only thing I was capable of doing for a few hours after that, which was when I played the bulk of the game.

Tom: So I still managed to enjoy it in spite of that.

Tom: So I think if you didn't enjoy it, it's probably the game itself.

Phil: Yeah, I'd say so.

Phil: So is there anything else you'd like to point out about this game, or do you want to give it a score?

Tom: Before we move on, there is actually something else to add to this, because there is another Franz Kafka Videogame, which is literally called the Franz Kafka Videogame.

Tom: And it's interesting comparing the two, because the Franz Kafka Videogame, like Metamorphosis, is basically a series of references to Kafka.

Tom: And it's by Dennis Galanin, which is surely not how that is pronounced, who also developed the Hamlet Videogame, which is simply called Hamlet.

Tom: Oh, no it isn't.

Tom: It's got a very long title.

Tom: Hamlet, or the last game without MMORPG, features, shaders and product placement.

Phil: I know where these...

Phil: I know these guys.

Phil: It's Daedalic Entertainment.

Phil: Daedalic.

Tom: No, they published it.

Phil: Okay, they're the publisher of Deponia.

Phil: Yeah, so they've published a lot of these guys.

Phil: That's where I knew the name from.

Phil: They've published a lot of these guys, because this is also The Chronicles of Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Wolfgang Holbein's The Inquisitors, The Tudors.

Phil: So, yeah, they've got to be pretty hooked up together there, I'd say.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And as I said, I ultimately enjoyed The Metamorphosis.

Tom: I would say it's a unique experience.

Tom: It is worth playing for its aesthetic, even if it is thematically very disappointing.

Tom: And I don't think you should ever adapt Kafka unless you're doing something very serious or ridiculous.

Tom: And the Franz Kafka Videogame is very much ridiculous.

Tom: At times, what it has to do with Kafka is completely incomprehensible, to an even greater degree than Hamlet, which at times, what it had to do with Hamlet was beyond one's comprehension.

Tom: Here, this sort of absurdity and ridiculousness works.

Tom: The mind-numbing bizarreness of many of the puzzles, again, ends up fitting the concept of making a Franz Kafka Videogame.

Tom: So I think purely by accident, given that the Hamlet adaptation this person has made is equally bizarre and absurd and incomprehensible, he stumbled on to making a truly Kafka-esque video game in adapting Kafka, because most things that reference Kafka usually go down the expressionist route, like, for example, metamorphosis.

Tom: But to me, anyway, while there are aesthetically things that you could potentially misconstru in Kafka as expressionist, to me, Kafka is the ultimate realist, whether you want to interpret his works religiously, psychologically or bureaucratically.

Tom: All of those things, the way they depict it is pure realism.

Tom: So works that go down the expressionist route, for example, metamorphosis are totally missing the point, but absurdity is a part of realism.

Tom: So a totally absurd, incomprehensible thing like this is, I think totally by accident, one of the greatest Kafka adaptations in history.

Phil: I think if a game is going to induce nausea, maybe the next thing they should try is a Jean-Paul Sartre game.

Tom: And I think that Metamorphosis is much more in the vein of Sartre than Kafka, absolutely.

Phil: Yep, yep.

Phil: Look, I tell you, I think, do you want to give this thing a score?

Tom: Yes, I will.

Tom: Let me just get The Die of Destiny.

Phil: And I'll make my final point when you have got The Die of Destiny ready to go.

Tom: It is ready to go.

Tom: Or ready to roll.

Phil: To me, this would have been, if shorter, it would have been a perfect fit in a Psychonauts game.

Phil: It should have been a Psychonauts level, rather than what it was.

Tom: Well, there actually is a Psychonauts level set in a post office sort of situation, similar time period, and therefore...

Tom: What's that?

Phil: Hold that, because I'm going to ask you a little bit about Psychonauts after we give this a score.

Phil: Drum roll, I guess.

Tom: Go ahead.

Tom: You're waiting for the die.

Tom: Yes!

Tom: Okay, here is the die of destiny.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: out of

Phil: Wow!

Phil: So the die is in good form.

Tom: I'm going to do two rolls, because we actually also talked about the Kafka game.

Tom: So before I say which score belongs to which game, I'm going to do two rolls here.

Tom: One of them was out of

Tom: The other one is out of

Phil: Do you want to try again?

Phil: See if we can get this down to

Phil: I'm going to do a third roll.

Phil: Well, the first one, obviously it's not calibrated.

Phil: So just calibrate it now.

Tom: No, the scores are correct, and out of

Phil: Just wrong game.

Tom: But the third roll is going to be to decide which game those scores belong to.

Tom: If it's a high score, the first score, which was an will go to Metamorphosis.

Tom: If it's a low score, then the second score, which was will go to Metamorphosis.

Phil: I don't know why you're explaining this.

Phil: This is all in our FAQ at gameunder.net, how the Diadestiny works.

Tom: It was an out of

Tom: So I think Metamorphosis gets a out of and the Franz Kafka Videogame an out of

Phil: Very good.

Phil: Okay, so I do know that, and I'm not looking for first impressions or final impressions or anything like that, but I think, you know, one of the things about Game Pass, it is a tremendous way to get a game into the zeitgeist of the gaming world, because even if something's somewhat mediocre, everyone talks about it, or at least everyone, you know, in the, who's in the active gaming community.

Phil: And one of those games that came out, again, I'm not asking this to, this is not a full review or anything like that, but I understand you've been playing Psychonauts

Tom: Well, it's funny that you should mention that you think there should have been a level in Psychonauts, because in Psychonauts there actually is a level with a post-office theme set in an obscure European country going into political troubles with a very expressionist aesthetic to it that is actually very similar to the lawyer office level and the letter posting or stamping level in metamorphosis.

Tom: So you are absolutely right.

Tom: And the level in Psychonauts is indeed better than metamorphosis.

Tom: But that actually just reminded me.

Tom: I have to say one more thing on metamorphosis, because I mentioned that I didn't think it really was grappling with the themes of Kafka at all.

Tom: I think it's much worse than that, because that just reminded me of how the game ended.

Tom: It essentially ends with a whole section that gives the protagonist in the story a great deal of agency in how things end for him.

Phil: And I cannot think......of a less inclined author.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: You should finish this game feeling like you're suffocating in a bucket, because that's the message that I always got from the Kafka books.

Phil: And trust me, I've re-read the trial probably five times in my life.

Phil: I love the writing of Kafka.

Phil: I don't read it to be uplifted, but it's just so engrossing.

Phil: And yeah, to give you agency at the end of the game, that's completely missing the point.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: What's not missing the point is if you go to gameunder.net, I have unearthed an archive of Tom Towers' writing.

Phil: Tom's written for various outlets over the years, all of which closed down.

Phil: I'm sure that was completely unrelated to his writing and activities.

Phil: But we've got reviews of Serious Sam Xenoclash Hard Reset.

Phil: I reposted the audio review of Bioshock Altered Beasts, Swords and Soldiers Super, Sausage Fest, which was a game by Dolph Lundgren, wasn't it?

Phil: You did an interview with him?

Tom: No, it was a game by Ronimo Games, developers of Awesome Nauts, and I did an interview with Juste van Dongen, one of their developers who by himself released Prune.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: It wasn't Jean-Claude van Dome or Dolph Lundgren.

Phil: You can read the interview you did with Juste.

Phil: Just probably search JOOST on the site.

Phil: And the most recent review I put up was a D Adventures of Rotating Octopus character.

Phil: I mean, where else are you going to get a review of that game?

Tom: A highly underrated game.

Tom: That remains, honestly, one of my favourite PSgames.

Phil: I was going to say that was a PlayStation game.

Phil: And yeah, so I've really enjoyed pulling these back out again.

Phil: I've got to admit, what's really weird is, you know, you see a game like Xenoclash and you're like, oh my god, this is like No Man's Sky before No Man's Sky.

Phil: Or Hard Reset, which was one of your top games of the s.

Phil: I totally forgot playing and beating that game.

Phil: So yeah, it's been really fun to go back and read those.

Phil: So that's in the review section of gameunder.net.

Tom: At least you're enjoying them.

Phil: Yeah, at least I'm enjoying them.

Phil: And we aren't promoting them yet.

Phil: They're just an Easter egg for people who come across the review site.

Phil: But we'll do some more promotion of them off the front page, I'm sure, in time to come.

Phil: So with that, did you have anything else you wanted to contribute to episode of The Game Under Podcast?

Tom: Well, we had to promote, above the reviews, the high quality editorial I wrote, The Body Has A Head.

Phil: The Body Has A Head, that's right.

Phil: That's on the features page.

Phil: So we also have a features section.

Phil: Did you approve of the artwork I selected for that essay?

Tom: I think so.

Tom: I can't remember it.

Phil: Well, if you disapproved, I'm sure I would have heard of it.

Phil: Now, I have to admit...

Tom: It would have stuck in my mind if I disapproved.

Phil: I have not read it, but it's an essay on the place of video games.

Tom: I see what it is.

Tom: That's a very good choice.

Phil: It is good.

Phil: Podcast listeners, you've got to go to gameunder.net, click on the Features tab, and you'll see the artwork I selected for The Body Has a Head.

Phil: It's an essay on the place of video games in art.

Phil: And before you slash your wrists, because it's probably the most worn out forum topic of the last years, do you want to give a justification as to why this essay is worth a read, Tom?

Tom: Because it references the obscure book The Body Has a Head.

Phil: As well as the movie America's Army.

Phil: What more could you want?

Tom: Did it reference that?

Phil: You are Tom Towers, right?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Thank you.

Tom: That's why I don't remember anything.

Phil: Well, that's the best thing about this old stuff is, you know, some of this is over years old.

Phil: So, I was even just going back and looking...

Tom: Here's the problem.

Tom: You said the film America's Army.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: I didn't know there was a film America's Army and why are we referencing...

Tom: I was referencing The Game America's Army.

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

Phil: America's Army is a video game.

Phil: I was thinking about the one with the puppets, America.

Tom: Team America.

Phil: What's that game called?

Tom: That film, Team America?

Phil: Yeah, Team America.

Phil: That's it.

Phil: Team America.

Phil: Okay, I think that would have been a better essay if you could have worked Team America into it.

Phil: Okay, well, with that, I should probably end while I'm way behind.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg, and thank you for joining me, Mr...

Phil: Tom Towers.

Phil: And we'll hear you next time, except we won't hear you or see you next time.

Phil: You'll listen to us.

Phil: That's the way it's going to be.

Phil: Thank you.

Game Under Podcast 140

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Intro

0:00:12 Definateley No Trademark Banter

Trademark Banter

0:01:21 Fashion Talk

0:03:40 Tom's Got a Switch, and a Roland

First Impressions - Phil

0:11:10 Kirby and the Forgotten Land - Nintendo Switch

0:17:00 Paper Mario The Origami King - Nintendo Switch

Final Impressions - Tom

0:28:45 The Good Life from SWERY65 - PC, Xbox, PS4, Switch

Console First Impressions - Tom

0:49:17 Nintendo Switch

Outro

1:11:45 Tease for Gran Turismo 7

Transcript:
WEBVTT

Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I am your host, Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by our co-host, founder and executive creative director today, Mr.

Phil: Tom Towers.

Phil: Tom, welcome back.

Tom: Thank you.

Tom: It's, I think, a disappointing co-host for me this time, but it's desperate times in the podcast world, so I'll have to take what I can get.

Phil: Yes, I do want to thank Red for co-hosting the last two episodes of the non-canon version of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: It was the slime cast, for those who missed it.

Tom: I think some of the best work we've done at Game Under.

Phil: I think that the co-host was exceptional, but as usual, you were dragging down the team.

Phil: But hey, you know, let's go for another shows and see how we go.

Phil: This is going to be a tight, fast-paced show.

Phil: We have not got time for trademark banner or anything even closely resembling it, because we just need to get this show done in a hurry to move on to other things, but, you know, gaming related, of course.

Phil: But I was wondering, fashion-wise, are there things that you wear that are a staple, like, that you've worn for over a decade?

Phil: And I'm not talking about a particular, like a jumper or a T-shirt that you have that's over a decade old.

Phil: I'm talking about a stylish affectation that you have.

Phil: And I'll give you time to think about that, because I've got a few.

Phil: I wear Ocasio digital watches that are from the s.

Phil: And I wear Chuck Taylor Converse high tops.

Phil: I wear a Gray Nichols cricket hat.

Phil: And Ray-Ban Wayfarers.

Phil: I don't wear them all at the same time.

Phil: But sometimes I do catch myself wearing them all.

Phil: But they're all things that...

Tom: I think you should wear them all at once.

Phil: Well, I do often.

Phil: And I chuckle when I find myself wearing them.

Phil: But the point is, I wear those things because I know that when they wear out, I can always get them.

Phil: Like a Gray Nichols white cricket hat, they make billions of them.

Phil: They've made them the same forever.

Phil: They're going to keep making them the same.

Phil: So I know that when that one runs out, I can go and get an exactly identical one.

Phil: And same thing for the Chuck Taylors and the Wayfarers and the Casio watches.

Tom: I would say there isn't really, I think, particular things that I would necessarily wear.

Tom: There are specific clothing items though that I have worn for many decades.

Phil: Like that white hood I've told you you have to get rid of.

Tom: Well, I only wear that on special occasions.

Tom: So I think it's alright to have a certain sort of formal dress that you only get out on special occasions.

Tom: Surely that's acceptable?

Phil: Yeah, that would be acceptable.

Phil: I think, so there's nothing, there's no go-to fashion item that you're like, I've got to have that, like a little hoodie, right?

Phil: Like a hoodie would be required, right?

Tom: I don't think it would be required, no.

Tom: No?

Phil: What is your opinion on non-zip-upperable hoodies?

Tom: I prefer them to the zip-upperable ones.

Phil: With the pockets on the front?

Tom: With pockets on the front, yes.

Phil: Yeah, I've got a skeevy like surfer dude, one of those that I got from an op shop that is like a ridiculously expensive fashion brand.

Phil: And I quite like it.

Phil: Alright, well, I know that we had no time to spare.

Phil: Did you want to talk about anything that's happened in your life recently?

Tom: Well, I did get a Nintendo Switch between now and the previous show, I believe.

Phil: Excellent.

Tom: As well as a digital piano.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: Okay, so another Korg, or what did you get?

Tom: Another Kord?

Phil: Korg.

Tom: Korg, no, it was in fact a Road, not a Korg.

Phil: Wow, okay.

Tom: No, no, no, not a Road.

Tom: That's a different Japanese manufacturer of audio-related items, a Roland, sorry.

Phil: Oh, a Roland, okay.

Phil: Well, that's still, you know, that's still professional grade.

Tom: I think it wouldn't be classed as professional grade.

Tom: It would probably be a mid-tier one.

Phil: You've been, I know that you were learning, you know, or playing stuff piano-wise sort of thing.

Tom: Well, I think about a decade ago or so, which is recounted on the VJ Press blogs, I started to learn piano on our acoustic piano, which requires repairs, hence the digital piano.

Tom: And that essentially meant I did not have at any point ever play games, because the enjoyment and satisfaction and use of the brain is very similar in playing piano to playing games.

Phil: So can you just sit down at a piano and start playing?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: And be good?

Tom: Well, whether I'm good or not is a matter of opinion.

Phil: See, I think that's fantastic.

Phil: I mean, that is so great because there's pianos everywhere, you know, so like you can just, if a party's boring or this, that or a gathering's boring, you can just, you know, kind of get up to the, go tickle the ivory, so to speak, and, you know, a crowd would form around you.

Phil: I think that's fantastic.

Tom: And the good thing is, whether I'm good or not, if I'm good, a crowd will form.

Tom: If I'm bad, a crowd is equally likely to form.

Phil: Or disperse.

Phil: Which is win-win.

Tom: Form and then disperse.

Phil: Win-win.

Phil: So, but now with the piano versus games thing, is it because, you know, your hands get so sore from doing the piano that you can't do the games?

Phil: Or is it just because it, is it all absorbing?

Tom: It eats up any time one would spend on playing games, essentially.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: And it is exactly the same sort of things going on in your brain compared to many other instruments.

Tom: And it is an interesting challenge with a very clear and defined improvement as you're going along with a depth to it that is in a very small selection of games that exist.

Phil: What you've said there though, it is interesting because you've got the dexterity, right?

Phil: You've got to be using your fingers.

Phil: You're responding to stimulus, how the stuff sounds.

Phil: You're using your creativity.

Phil: You're constantly looking at where am I going to go next?

Phil: I mean, it sounds exactly like video gaming, but why is it different or more so on the piano than say another instrument?

Phil: Because you said with a piano, it's more like gaming than with another instrument.

Tom: Due to the interface.

Tom: So because it is a keyboard, there's obviously a direct relationship to how games work, given that most games are based on just pressing buttons.

Phil: So you're a keyboard and mouse kind of guy.

Tom: Well, even if you're using a controller, it's more similar than say if you're playing guitar.

Tom: I suppose you could say there's a similarity in moving an analog stick to strumming on a guitar.

Tom: And obviously the fretboard is pressing keys and that is very translatable from piano to guitar and vice versa.

Phil: Yeah, I believe they made a few video games about that back in the night.

Tom: I think they did.

Tom: Guitar...

Phil: Guitar Man and Rock Hero.

Phil: This is why people tune into The Game Under Podcast because we have a perspective.

Phil: An extensive knowledge of game history.

Tom: But so the difference is, the difference is, the way an analog stick works on a controller is essentially just the translation from arrow keys on a keyboard or a digital input just with a little bit more movement in it.

Tom: When you're strumming on a guitar, obviously that's where all of your expressiveness comes and also the fretboard.

Tom: But in piano, the expressiveness comes from more so than in a guitar because guitar is in a percussive instrument.

Tom: There is obviously a huge amount of expression in the sound you produce, but so much of the expression comes from your timing and rhythm and all of that sort of thing more so than on a guitar or non-percussive instrument.

Tom: So, games are essentially, even if you are playing on a controller where your analog stick is controlling only a small quantity of reactions, very much similar to a percussive instrument.

Tom: And any games that have depth to them, like for example, beat'em ups or fighting games, they're all obviously entirely about timing and rhythm and that sort of thing.

Phil: Have you been, so why did you get the Roland?

Phil: Because your old piano was crapping out?

Tom: Well, the old piano needs extensive repairs done on it.

Tom: And the other advantage of a digital piano is, which is probably the main reason I got it, is it is nowhere near as loud as even a small acoustic piano.

Tom: Even if you turn it up all the way, it may be technically as loud, but the amount of vibration it produces is not at all comparable, which is obviously a disadvantage if the goal is performance.

Tom: But for practicing and playing regularly, when you suffer from sensory overload is a huge advantage.

Tom: So playing on an acoustic piano, I would be limited to minutes before it starts affecting me, then maybe an hour until it really begins to be a problem.

Tom: Whereas I can play a digital piano for several hours at a time without that being an issue.

Phil: That is awesome.

Phil: I wish I could play the piano.

Phil: If I was going to pick up anything, it would definitely be the piano because my extremely large hands.

Phil: I've heard that that's a benefit on the piano.

Tom: It is.

Tom: You need to be able to reach at least an octave.

Tom: And the further you can reach, the better.

Tom: I do not have large hands, but I have extremely flexible hands.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: So, yeah, thanks to Redco Hosting.

Phil: I'm glad we've gotten right into the game.

Phil: So you did buy a Switch, so I'm very interested in your impressions of it.

Phil: We can probably get into that later.

Phil: Speaking of the Switch, I've been playing some Switch games predominantly lately.

Phil: I just finished up the demo of Kirby and the Forgotten Land.

Phil: Have you had a chance to check this out?

Tom: No, I have been told to though.

Tom: I watched some of the IGN gameplay trailer and the narration was so horrifically distracting, I remember nothing about the game itself.

Phil: My first exposure to Kirby was on the original Game Boy.

Phil: I think it's Kirby's, I forget what it's called, but in any case, it has an incredible soundtrack.

Phil: And it was a fun game and basically, if you've never played a Kirby game, it's a Nintendo game, obviously, and it basically involves you walking around like a big pink cloud.

Phil: You can float by holding your breath and fly short distances.

Tom: I think that you're playing as a big pink cloud.

Phil: That's it, that's you, yep.

Tom: And I think by the size of clouds it would be an extremely small cloud, would it not?

Phil: Yeah, it would be very small, like the size of a bean bag, I would say.

Phil: Kirby, I always thought that Kirby was named after the famous US vacuum cleaner manufacturer because one of the things that Kirby does is he vacuums in things and then he takes on their characteristics, just like when you eat the heart of another man, you take on his characteristics and skills.

Phil: So he will suck in something and then he will have that characteristic.

Phil: If he sucks in something that's not living, he just spits it back out at you like a projectile.

Phil: And I always thought Kirby was named after the vacuum cleaner manufacturer.

Phil: He was actually named after...

Tom: Did he also eat people's hearts?

Phil: Well, I've only played the first three levels, so...

Tom: I mean the vacuum cleaner manufacturer.

Phil: I don't know, I don't know.

Phil: I would believe that that Dyson dude eats people's hearts, he's pretty creepy.

Phil: So with Kirby...

Phil: But actually he was named after a Nintendo employee in America, so there you go.

Tom: Are there any Nintendo characters who were not named after employees?

Phil: Well, you've got Doug Bowser.

Phil: He's the current Nintendo of America chief, so you've got that.

Tom: Who do you think Pikachu is named after?

Phil: I have no idea.

Phil: And you know what?

Phil: Reggie Philz and me, he never actually had a character named after him, did he?

Tom: I don't think so.

Phil: Hey, but back to Kirby and the Forgotten Land.

Phil: The thing is, this game is brilliant.

Phil: I went out and bought it immediately after I got through it.

Phil: It is basically...

Phil: They've taken the Mario Odyssey shtick.

Phil: So with Mario, he'd throw his cap on something and then he'd take on the characteristics of that thing.

Phil: Well, with Kirby, basically, it's the exact same thing.

Phil: So he can suck up a car using an ability called Mouthful.

Phil: He can suck up vending machines.

Phil: And then basically, like you suck up a car, then you can drive around like a car.

Phil: So, yeah, it's just really, really fun.

Phil: The ability to platform by either walking or floating, the ability to have really a good toolset in terms of how you defend yourself and get through a level or solve puzzles.

Phil: It just is really well done.

Phil: And it's got the same polish as Mario Odyssey.

Phil: I'd be really interested if Kirby and the Forgotten Land was conceived prior to Mario Odyssey, because obviously Kirby, you know, doing something, interacting with something and then taking on its abilities is like, I've been a part of the series since the s.

Phil: So I don't know if they came up with that idea first and then adopted that to Mario Odyssey.

Phil: But yeah, it's got the same fantastic polish and gameplay feel and looks great as well.

Phil: So I'm very excited about that one.

Tom: Are you enjoying it more or as much as Mario Odyssey?

Phil: Probably more, I'd say, because it just feels right, whereas the gimmick, I don't mean that, I should say the device of Mario Odyssey with the hat was always something that was kind of weird.

Phil: Well, not weird, but it's kind of feigned because his hat has never been a part of his shtick before.

Phil: And it was executed perfectly.

Phil: I absolutely loved Odyssey from start to finish.

Phil: Did you have a chance to play Odyssey now that you've gotten the Switch?

Tom: No, I did not.

Tom: The one thing I would add is I would also say it is coming from someone who remembers nothing from the trailer, that I suspect Kirby also probably has a lot more charm to it because Mario Odyssey, as far as Mario aesthetics go, has to be one of the least engaging and most forgettable.

Phil: In what way?

Tom: Well, from what I remember the trailers was there was a big focus on a very bland and lifeless looking New York City.

Phil: Yeah, that's just one level though.

Phil: I mean, they have desert levels and jungle levels and all sorts of other stuff as well.

Phil: Look, I'd really encourage you to play Mario Odyssey.

Phil: I would because it is good, it is important.

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: While you were talking, I was thinking, you know, actually I'm full of shit because in the original D Marios, he has the tanuki suit, he has the boot, you know, so like he can change his clothing to take on other characteristics.

Phil: So there you go.

Phil: But yeah, so thumbs up for that one.

Phil: I can't wait to get the physical copy.

Phil: Another game, well the game I've actually been playing the most is the Paper Mario Origami King.

Phil: Not Origami Killer.

Tom: That doesn't sound like a Mario title.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: And so Paper Mario is obviously the great-grandson of Super Mario RPG on the Super Nintendo, which is one of our friends' best games of all time, favorite games of all time, and a game that I've gone through about two and a half times in the past.

Phil: It was a game by Square using Nintendo Assets, and it was basically a JRPG, but one of the things that was innovative, at least to the American audience or the Western audience, was that it had timed battle controls.

Phil: So it wasn't just turn-based, but there was also a time button pressing, a timing element to it as well.

Phil: I wouldn't imagine you've had an opportunity to play Super Mario RPG?

Tom: Not the original, no.

Tom: I have played the Thousand Year Door, but I think that's the only one.

Phil: Is Thousand Year Door the GameCube one?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So, Super Mario RPG is absolutely brilliant, definitely in my top games of all time.

Phil: There was never a sequel made by Square, and then on the Nthey came up with Paper Mario, which kind of got diluted into the Mario and Luigi type Game Boy series, but not really.

Phil: It never really replaced it.

Phil: The NPaper Mario was absolutely exceptional, and I wasn't expecting it to be.

Phil: Thousand Year Door, what was your impressions of it?

Tom: After an extremely slow and uninteresting start, it ended up becoming one of my favorite GameCube games.

Phil: Yeah, and I totally got into it.

Phil: I mean, I remember basically binging it and getting through it in a very short period of time, but I didn't like it to the level of the Super Mario RPG or the Ngame.

Phil: The Ngame is outstanding, and I hope they've reissued it.

Phil: They may have reissued it.

Phil: I don't think they have, but it'd be good if they did.

Phil: So this one, and then if they did one for the Wii or the Wii U, then I didn't know about it, or I basically went, eh, kind of had my fill of that sort of thing.

Tom: I think they did.

Phil: Well, they had a sticker one for the DS that I wasn't interested in.

Phil: So I just basically got into this one because I'd heard enough good things about it.

Phil: And, you know, like one of the things, like Thousand Year Door is, and about this series, is that it is immensely charming and well localized.

Phil: And visually, obviously, they're playing with a D sticker-looking Mario that has all the characteristics of a sticker and paper.

Phil: And it's very, you know, it's very visually appealing.

Phil: Or easy on the eyes.

Phil: Because it's highly stylized.

Phil: My first impressions of Origami King was that it was polished within an inch of its life and probably beyond it.

Phil: Because it's just so slick and boring.

Phil: But it does have a good battle system.

Phil: It has basically, you go into, if you can imagine, a bullseye.

Phil: And as Mario, you can move your enemies around concentrically.

Phil: So if you imagine a bullseye with your enemy on each alternating stripe, or multiple enemies on each alternating stripe, you have a limited amount of time to slide them all around to line them up so that you can have a more effective attack.

Phil: There's another vacuum-type effort.

Tom: Is that to hit multiple ones of them at once?

Phil: Yes, yes.

Phil: Or you line them up so you can bounce off the first to the second, to the third, to the fourth.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And so it's fairly simple, but like all good puzzles, it can get really hard to master the more they ramp it up.

Phil: And it does have a particularly slow start because you start at the, you know, it's a hub-based game basically.

Phil: So you start out with the hub and the first level.

Phil: So you have to kind of learn the hub and the first level at the same time as well as trying to put together a lot of complicated game elements.

Phil: And they keep trickling this information out to you.

Phil: And I'd say that that's probably the biggest downfall of the game is there's too much detail because there's no instruction manuals.

Phil: They are having to tutorialize you for the first hours at least.

Phil: And I'm well into plus hours now and I'm still learning new stuff.

Phil: It does have a Metroid type element to it in that, you know, you'll go into an area and there's things you can't access until you unlock abilities or equipment later on.

Phil: And so yeah, overall I'm enjoying it.

Phil: The boss battles are fantastic.

Phil: So basically there's five different levels you have to beat and at the end of...

Phil: And what's the gameplay?

Phil: You're basically walking around, attacking small guys who can come up and attack you in a traditional JRP fashion.

Phil: And then you're going through dungeons and temples and solving puzzles and doing all this and that sort of thing.

Phil: You're having to do resource management in terms of your health items and equipment.

Phil: And then at the very end, there are very distinct boss battles that are quite complex and by no means simple.

Phil: Like you...

Phil: JRPGs, traditionally, you've got the grind and then you get to a boss, and you can kind of figure it out within a few tries.

Phil: With this one, it's the same sort of battle, but a lot more complex.

Phil: So in that way, a lot more satisfying, but yeah, you've got to definitely set aside time for those boss battles.

Tom: Do they come out with creative ways of using the concentric circle system?

Phil: Yeah, they do, because they're introducing new minor enemies all the time that have different abilities.

Phil: So for example, you might be using your boots to stomp on the top of enemies, but then you'll get an enemy that has spikes on their top, so you can't jump on top of them unless you're using an upgraded steel boot or something like that.

Phil: So yeah, they're constantly changing your minor grind battles.

Phil: And the environments also change.

Phil: So like I said, there's about five or six different levels that have different environments and different challenges, and they all have a dungeon in the middle of them in typical JRPG style that you have to try and figure out and get through.

Phil: So yeah.

Phil: So overall, I would say it's been a good game.

Phil: It's been enjoyable and challenging.

Tom: It sounds a bit more creative than The Thousand New Door and what are you hearing about the sticker one?

Phil: Yeah, definitely.

Phil: I mean, they've really done a good job.

Phil: That's kind of been the story with the Switch is this there's been no shortage of good games for it.

Phil: And speaking of good games, you turned me on to the fact that itch.io had another sale of the century for some reason that we probably won't get into.

Tom: I think it was something to do with the Oscars.

Phil: I think so, you're right.

Phil: Which has been a popular, I was outraged that the most popular topic on the VG press, which is our community site, you can post stories about games and all the rest of it, and someone posted a thread yesterday about Team Rock or Team Jiggy, and it's been the most active thread on the site.

Tom: What kind of a loser would post a thread like that?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: It's just basically clickbait.

Phil: The guy's probably trolling.

Phil: He really has no interest in it whatsoever.

Phil: He's probably just cutting and pasting something off Twitter just to see what people will read.

Phil: But anyway, what were you saying about the VG Press?

Phil: Oh, a sale.

Phil: That's right, a sale.

Tom: The HIO Oscar sale.

Phil: Yeah, Oscar sale.

Phil: Right, so you turned me on to this, and it was like bucks for only games?

Tom: I think over

Phil: Over games, I know.

Phil: As opposed to that one they did a couple of years ago.

Phil: But yeah, I managed to pick up some games on it.

Phil: I've kind of scrolled through to like the fourth page of the sale, and I'm not seeing too much more there.

Phil: But they had Steamworld Dig

Phil: Oh, Superhot.

Phil: I mean, if you don't have Superhot, that's worth it right there.

Phil: And Inglot, I picked up that.

Phil: I mean, it was a really good set.

Tom: So only worth it for that alone as well.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's fantastic.

Phil: I mean, there's quite a few games on there that I didn't have.

Tom: I haven't played it yet, but I'm very, very curious about a game on there called, if I can find it, Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

Phil: Thirsty?

Tom: Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

Phil: Oh, that's just got to be a kind of Super Giana Sisters or the Great Giana Sisters.

Phil: Thirsty Sword Lesbians?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Sorry.

Phil: I just had to get that right because I want to write it down.

Phil: Ostensibly, the plot would be that they're thirsty for a sword and that they're lesbians.

Phil: But you can't judge a book by its cover.

Phil: Just because the game is called Thirsty Sword Lesbians doesn't mean it's about lesbians who are thirsty for swords.

Tom: I just found the publicity page for it on the developer Evil Hat's website.

Tom: It is described as Love, Swords and Adventure.

Tom: Thirsty sword lesbians battle the Lady of Change when her enforcers march down from the frosty north.

Tom: They rocket through the stars to safeguard diplomats ending a generations old conflict.

Tom: Even when swords are crossed, they seek peace with their opponents and sometimes connect more deeply than anyone expects.

Tom: A sword duel can end in kissing.

Phil: Well, that's something I think everyone can relate to.

Tom: I think it's very topical.

Tom: I think it's very topical.

Phil: Well, it's amazing that they're able to give...

Tom: World leaders could learn a little from thirsty sword lesbians, I believe.

Phil: Well, certainly they could learn from that, just as they could learn from Pussy Riot.

Phil: So yeah, that was a good sale.

Phil: So now you've been playing another game as well, I think, that you wanted to talk about.

Tom: I've been playing several games, actually.

Tom: But one of the most interesting is The Good Life by the developer of Deadly Premonition.

Tom: SWERY, I think he's known as.

Phil: Yeah, SWERY.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Phil: Well, remember I played the Switch Deadly Premonition game that came out last year and could not recommend it.

Tom: I think you sort of did recommend it, actually, but were disappointed as well.

Phil: Yeah, it had a lot of disappointments to it.

Phil: So The Good Life, is it based off that British sitcom from the s?

Tom: It's clearly referencing the British sitcom from the s, as it is set in a small English country town.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: Well, that's interesting because obviously Deadly Premonition took a lot of hints from the TV series, you know, the one with the lake and the woods.

Tom: Twin Peaks.

Phil: That's it, yeah, Twin Peaks.

Phil: So it's based off of a British city?

Tom: It's a English country town.

Tom: And you're playing as an American journalist from New York who has accrued a massive debt.

Tom: I don't recall if it goes into much detail on what her debt is actually for, but she has been sent to a backwards English country town to somehow earn enough money in this town to pay back her debt.

Tom: And the gameplay is a kind of a cross between Animal Crossing, an action adventure game and a photography game.

Tom: And there are similarities to Deadly Premonition in the sense that you are in a supposedly living town with characters going about their day-to-day lives, but unlike in Deadly Premonition, you don't really get that sense.

Tom: And if you follow characters around, you're not really going to learn anything about what is going on in the narrative, unlike in Deadly Premonition.

Tom: And it's also pretty clear that it is not entirely finished because there is one main very small town area, then there's areas of the countryside with other small towns in them.

Tom: And the main area has named characters that go about their daily lives and shops that are open during the day and closed during the night and all of that sort of thing.

Tom: The surrounding areas consist of nameless placeholder characters who just stand around no matter what is happening.

Phil: So, in Deadly Premonition, of course, a lot of the charm of that game was that you could go to the town and people would be going through their daily activities and you could spy on them and take photos and there were some purient benefits to that.

Phil: Is that a similar type thing?

Tom: Not really.

Tom: As I said, that's what they're going for, but the only thing that that really affects is that to begin and end quests or do certain activities in quests, you have to do it when the character is available.

Tom: If you do follow characters around, as I said, you don't really learn anything about what's going on and they don't really do anything interesting either for the most part.

Tom: They will just, for example, walk from home to the shop they work out.

Tom: Then at the shop they work out, they'll remain there all day long.

Tom: The only exception to that is when they need to go and eat something, they'll go to the single pub and eat something there.

Tom: Or on the Sunday, they will go to church.

Tom: And that's basically the extent of the characters' activities in the world.

Tom: So it's not really comparable to Deadly Premonition at all.

Phil: Well, that sounds more exciting than what I do every week.

Phil: At least these people go to two places.

Phil: So what's the moment by moment gameplay?

Phil: You're walking around, I would have to assume, in a third person action type game.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: And there is a twist.

Tom: As you go along in the story, you will gain the ability to transform into a cat or dog.

Tom: So the advantage of that is they can jump much higher than the main character in human form.

Tom: The dog can mark its territory and smell things.

Phil: Well, humans can do that too, honestly.

Tom: Yes, they can.

Tom: But the cat can also climb things.

Tom: And this has not really made use of much, in terms of gameplay, other than just arbitrarily having to switch into these forms to achieve certain objectives in a mission.

Tom: So that's another thing that is, disappointingly, not really developed in a particularly interesting way.

Tom: I think, weirdly, the most enjoyable and interesting aspect of the game I found was the photography mechanic and how that relates to making money.

Phil: Are you on, I'm sorry to interrupt, are you on some sort of email list where they tell you every time a game has a photography element?

Tom: No, I'm not.

Phil: How did you find this?

Tom: Well, it's made by SWERY.

Tom: SWERY.

Tom: So it was on my radar.

Phil: And what platform did you play it on?

Phil: PC?

Tom: I played it on PC.

Tom: I believe it's also on Switch and possibly other consoles.

Phil: Okay, no worries.

Phil: I was just saying because you're quite good at finding every single game that has a photography element in it.

Phil: Because you talk about it like, oh yeah, you know, a Fatal Frame and whatever.

Tom: I've never played Fatal Frame.

Phil: Okay, you know, it's hard to get over here, I think.

Phil: Okay, I just had to know.

Phil: So there is a photography element to it.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And it is linked to the character's Instagram account equivalent in the game world.

Tom: And each day or couple of days, there are five hot words, as they're called, which will, if you photograph this and then upload it, you will make a reasonable amount of money from accruing followers and getting likes and that sort of thing.

Tom: So looking for photo objectives and uploading them, I found to be easily the most enjoyable part of the game and the missions that use photography are usually quite enjoyable as well.

Tom: The main campaign gameplay consists mostly of things like fetch quests or going between characters and talking to them.

Tom: So it isn't particularly interesting, the main quest in terms of gameplay.

Tom: And the story and characters certainly do not live up to Deadly Premonition at all.

Tom: But it does nevertheless have a certain charm to it, partially because of the very bizarre combination of gameplay elements.

Tom: As I said, there are Animal Crossing elements of the gameplay where you're able to upgrade the house you live in, you can manage a garden you have, you grow plants that you use to make food, and there's also a survival mechanic where you have to keep your character fed, you have to keep her sleeping a reasonable amount, and you can't stay out in the rain without catching a cold, and if she does get sick, then you have to go to the vet and get treated, and various things like that.

Tom: So it's a very strange mix of gameplay mechanics.

Tom: Which make it not necessarily enjoyable, but a very interesting experience.

Tom: And there is another mechanic in the game, which is the way you travel quickly, which is, I think, a good indication of the good elements of the game's sense of humour where it works quite nicely.

Tom: Instead of riding a horse or anything like that, you can tame sheep and then ride sheep around.

Tom: And the way you tame sheep is, of course, by transforming into a dog and then barking at the sheep.

Tom: And then, once you have barked at them enough and cowed them under your wheel, you can then ride them and use them essentially as your steed, which allows you to travel quickly throughout the area.

Tom: The one other interesting thing, the one other more enjoyable mechanic was the way meals affect your stats.

Tom: So, certain meals will give you more stamina, which allows you to run further distances, both when you're riding sheep or just running around.

Tom: And some will make you much stronger in fights.

Tom: There's also an extremely awkward combat mechanic, which is used, I think, on one occasion in the main story, and should basically just be avoided, generally speaking.

Tom: And there are very rare occasions where there are enemies that will attack you, such as badgers, but generally the best strategy is to just call up your sheep, hop on it and run away.

Tom: So, the way food affects your stats is interesting.

Tom: And from a collecting perspective, it was somewhat enjoyable to be going through restaurants' menus.

Tom: And there are mini games or side quests that take advantage of some of the more amusing characters in the game as well, such as an alcoholic vicar who you have drinking contests with, and also one of the best photographic missions features him as well, where you have to take a photo of him urinating in public after he's been out drinking.

Tom: And that's amusing, but is also a good indication of how the gameplay does not work like an emergent world, I think was the marketing term, used at the time of Deadly Premonition.

Tom: If you were doing a mission like that in Deadly Premonition, you would be following that character around, waiting for a logical occasion that they would be doing that.

Tom: In this, you start the quest and select it from the menu, and they will teleport to where they are urinating.

Tom: If you then go to another quest, they'll teleport back to where they were.

Tom: It's very much not a dynamic world.

Phil: That makes complete sense.

Phil: In terms of what you're describing, besides the urination portals, have you ever played any of the Harvest Moon games?

Phil: Harvest Moon starts with you basically being someone who's come from the city, and you're broke and you need to build something up, and you meet a new community.

Phil: It sounds very Harvest Moon.

Tom: Harvest Moon would definitely be a better comparison than Animal Crossing, definitely.

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: Well, we're talking about SWERYHidetaki Sehiro, and this game, The Good Life, is available on PlayStation Xbox One, Windows and Switch.

Phil: I found it interesting, and he's currently working on a game called Hotel Bartholonna for Switch and mobile, with no less than Sudaof No More Heroes fame, but even more importantly, Kichiro Toyama, which isn't a name that we've talked about much here on this podcast, but he's the guy behind Gravity Rush and Siren and Silent Hill and Snatcher.

Phil: You know, I mean, so these guys are working on something together called Hotel Bartholonna, which I think that's very interesting.

Phil: I think it's probably going to be a must buy just to see the car crash that SWERYSudaand Toyama could put together.

Phil: One of the things that are disappointing looking at SWERY's gameography is that the last game he was a designer on, he did Deadly Premonition in Lord of Arcana for the PSP, then Lord of Apocalypse.

Phil: And that was the last game that he was actually a designer on, and since then it's all been writer, co-writer, director.

Phil: And I think there is something that is lost when a game designer basically elevates themselves up out of the design system and becomes a writer-director.

Phil: And I think that's a part of aging and basically you can't do everything yourself and technology changes, you don't keep up with technology and all the rest of it.

Phil: But do you disagree with me that that's an important point?

Phil: You know, like getting your hands dirty.

Tom: I think it would depend entirely on who we're talking about.

Phil: So like Will Wright, the creator of SimCity, you know, like he created the original SimCity by himself exclusively, % just him.

Phil: And he had everything in his control.

Phil: And then obviously as he built and developed SimCity through its different genres, and then went on to do The Sims, you know, at a certain point, he obviously the scope of those games got out of his direct control to the point where he just went on to do nothing because he was no longer able to produce a game just by himself.

Phil: And if you look at itch.io, that is to me, like where gaming is right now.

Phil: Like itch.io to me is where the passion and the interest is as a gamer who grew up playing Commodore games that were made by a single developer or two developers or three developers.

Phil: In terms of this...

Tom: What about someone like Nagoshi though?

Phil: Oh, well, you see, that's the master of both worlds.

Phil: You know, someone who's able to, you know, basically adopt new technologies and be alive with new technologies as they're evolving.

Phil: And I think, like what I'm saying is, like Nagoshi, he just didn't...

Phil: Yeah, he's not doing all the blood work himself, but he's conversant with it, I believe, because he's been able to...

Tom: I'm pretty sure he began in design in various capacities, didn't he?

Phil: Yes, that's right.

Tom: So there will be an example of someone who did successfully make the transition.

Phil: Make the transition.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: And Miyamoto, I would put in that same category to a degree, well, certainly, because even though he was, quote, just an artist, he wasn't a coder, he obviously gave Nintendo something that they didn't have.

Phil: And you need that artistic touch, you know.

Phil: And of course he's brilliant.

Phil: So is there anything else you'd like to say about The Good Life?

Tom: Probably not.

Tom: Just again, it is...

Tom: If you go into it expecting something on the level of Deadly Premonition, either in terms of the narrative and atmosphere or the gameplay, and there were many positive aspects and incredibly high quality aspects to the gameplay of the original Deadly Premonition, contrary to popular belief, I would say, it's a very disappointing experience.

Tom: But as a very unique and bizarre melding of different total elements in the narrative and elements in the gameplay, it's a very unique and I think ultimately worthwhile experience.

Tom: And like Harvest Moon, which I haven't played, but games that have a management sort of aspect to it, there are elements of that in it that end up just through basic positive reinforcement becoming engaging and rewarding.

Tom: They just take a little bit of while for that effect to build up.

Phil: Yeah, like if you look at a game like Stardew Valley, that's a game that was again made by one person and was incredibly deep and is incredibly deep and complex.

Phil: And I think probably from what you're describing with The Good Life is that it's got some elements of those things but probably not as much time put into the development to really push it over the edge to be something.

Tom: And there's certainly your depth to anything in it.

Tom: The one thing I would add which is I think really takes away from it because one thing it has going for it I would say is the lack of depth to it because it's a very low investment way to experience a management game of that sort of ilk.

Tom: One thing that gets away in the way of that is the crafting system because the crafting system you need to do for various side quests and the side quests are enjoyable because a lot of them have amusing stories that accompany them.

Tom: And that's where a lot of the characters shine.

Tom: But a lot of them are a total dead end because the crafting system requires some pretty absurd grinding to be able to get some very basic things you need to craft a single item to complete a quest.

Tom: So that is something that just gets in the way of the general direction that the rest of the game was going in and is any quest that I can recall that featured crafting, other than the one that started some of the crafting systems being available, I did not finish because it would have required some degree of just totally uninteresting grinding to be able to do it.

Phil: Yeah, it will sound fatuous, but I believe that if crafting isn't a game, it should start...

Phil: When they're doing those stupid tutorials, they have to walk you through at the start of the game.

Phil: It says, hey, in this game, you can do crafting or not.

Phil: Do you want us to do it for you?

Phil: Because sometimes it can be more work than it's worth and certainly not enjoyable.

Phil: I think if you look at a game like Tomb Raider and its sequels, that's an example of, to me, crafting done best.

Phil: But in so many games, you get to that crafting element and it's just a complete time sink and something that doesn't have much reward.

Tom: I think if the crafting system is interesting, that can work.

Phil: And intuitive.

Tom: Even if it is a time sink.

Phil: Yeah, and intuitive.

Phil: Oh, I put this together, I put that together, it's going to be a fire bomb, you know.

Phil: Thank you for your review of The Good Life, available on pretty much everything.

Tom: I think we have to give it a score, don't we?

Phil: We do.

Phil: Do you have the die of destiny?

Tom: I have to get the die of destiny.

Phil: Well, you don't have to because I have a sound effect that does the die of destiny.

Tom: Well, I now have the die of destiny.

Phil: Ah, excellent.

Tom: And we're about to roll it.

Phil: There we go.

Phil: That's how we roll.

Tom: A out of

Phil: Well, GameSpot gave it a out of so do you think your is about right on the Tom Towers scale?

Tom: I think it's probably fair, all in all.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: So The Good Life is just one of the games that are available on the Switch, and as you said, since the last time we talked, that you have picked up a Nintendo Switch.

Phil: Did you get a mini or one with detachable joypads?

Tom: I got a standard Nintendo Switch.

Phil: Okay, so it's got the old screen, not the upgraded screen.

Tom: Correct, but I think it's the second generation of the original, so it has the better battery in it.

Phil: Oh, good, good, good.

Phil: And does it have, what color are your joypads?

Tom: Uh, blue and red.

Phil: Ah, just like me.

Phil: So they're kind of a neon, fluoro kind of red and blue, right?

Phil: Like a turquoise and sherbet kind of theme.

Tom: I think that's the most common color.

Phil: Yeah, well, you've got the black ones, which, no.

Phil: And then you've got the orange and purple ones, which I quite like as well.

Tom: I think the OLED one has white ones, which I think works quite well.

Phil: This is probably going to take us out for the rest of the show, but do you play it mostly docked or undocked?

Tom: Well, when I have been playing it, as I said, the vast majority of gaming time has been taken up by piano.

Tom: So I've actually been playing it in a combination of both docked using the Joy-Cons separately.

Tom: I do have a pro controller, but not using the pro controller or handheld because the majority of use that I was giving it was actually while I was doing my daily exercises.

Tom: So the advantage of being able to have a controller where you can separate the two sides of it means that can be done with a variety of different positions.

Tom: In which one when one is doing squats or crunches or whatever else.

Tom: And if you're lying down or standing up doing squats as well, you can also hold it depending on what you're doing exactly.

Tom: So that is actually how I have been using it mostly.

Tom: And that is one of the many great advantages of a system that is both a handheld and a non-handheld and has a genius, although it was there on the Wii, except they were attached by a lead, the genius idea of splitting a controller in half.

Phil: Yeah, I think with the Switch, they've finally pulled all the great elements of the Wii and the Wii U together and perfected them.

Phil: There's a lot of concepts there that they've re-tread.

Phil: And I've quite forgotten that when I first got my Switch, I did what you did.

Phil: I'd dock it and I'd have the controllers willy-nilly, one in my left hand and right hand.

Phil: I might have my left arm hung up over the back of the couch while I'm playing sort of thing.

Phil: And if you can get used to it, it's actually like a really comfortable way to play because you're not angled over with your shoulders.

Phil: And you can just sort of be kind of loose with it.

Phil: And yeah.

Tom: That's how my sister has been playing.

Tom: And she also, she has very poor joints in her hands and in general.

Tom: But...

Phil: Well, if she has very poor joints in her hands, I've got a better dealer that I could probably hook you up with.

Phil: So what is her favorite game, incidentally?

Tom: Yeah, I will.

Tom: But the other great advantage of them, if you have poor joints, for example, is how light they are.

Tom: There isn't really another control that is at all as light, not even close to as light as the Joy-Cons are.

Phil: I find in the handheld mode the Joy-Cons are poor because I'm basically twisting it all the time.

Tom: You mean if you've got the stream between them?

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: But I like the little holder thing they give to you.

Phil: And for smaller hands, that's also much better than having to hold the whole system, I've noticed.

Phil: But when I'm playing it docked, I uniformly have been using the Master Controller, which has, as I said when I was giving my first impressions of it, I don't know what is powering it, but it seems to never need a charge.

Phil: But you haven't been using the Master Controller.

Tom: Is that the Pro Controller?

Phil: Yeah, sorry.

Tom: Yes, if I am not playing while doing exercises and I am not playing in handheld mode, then I do use the Pro Controller.

Phil: So, you know, you are saying when I am not exercising and all the rest of it, it sounds to me like this hasn't revolutionized your life, like it hasn't become a part of your weekly gaming...

Tom: Well, it was, other than my gaming during breakfast, while I was using it doing exercises, my exercise routine has now changed, so it is no longer that practical to use them.

Tom: But when I was, that was the only gaming I was doing other than while I was eating breakfast.

Tom: So it did revolutionize my life in the sense that I was actually playing games again that were more complicated than something you could do while eating breakfast.

Tom: So I got through, for example, I think, two pretty reasonably length games.

Tom: I still need to kill the final boss in Metroid Dread and I completed the original Secret of Manor.

Tom: I think it's called Final Fantasy Adventure, I think.

Phil: Those are the only games you've played, aren't they?

Tom: No, those are the only ones I've completed.

Tom: I've played a lot of multiplayer games.

Phil: Like You Know.

Tom: Not You Know.

Phil: You Know is brilliant on this system.

Phil: You can read my review at gameunder.net.

Tom: I believe you also updated our archive with a Serious Sam and Xenoclash review.

Phil: Yes, I did.

Phil: You can go to gameunder.net, read Tom's review of Serious Sam.

Phil: What I'm basically doing is I'm going back through your gaming history and updating your reviews that you did for other sites because you've had a long career of writing video game reviews, but unfortunately, you've outlived a lot of the outlets.

Phil: As an archivist, I've been digging through your old stuff and putting it back up.

Phil: Right now, we've got your reviews of Serious Sam Xenoclash and Hard Reset.

Phil: These have been saved from the Internet Archive and reposted at gameunder.net.

Phil: And good reads each and all of them, I'm sure.

Tom: That's why they have survived and I'm still here, unlike numerous outlets.

Phil: Well, yes, and that because I pay Squarespace to keep our website up as opposed to your former hosts.

Phil: But we should probably come up with some sort of contingency plan in case I die.

Phil: So we'll work on that.

Phil: So back to the Switch.

Phil: You say you exercise while you're using it.

Phil: Have you tried Ring Fit Adventure?

Tom: No, I haven't.

Phil: I love that game.

Phil: And so you said you've tried other games, but you've only beaten two.

Phil: So what are the games that you've played?

Phil: What are the hardware impressions do you have?

Tom: Well, I played a lot of games.

Tom: Mario Kart which is surprisingly good, even after already playing Mario Kart

Tom: Ultimate Chicken Horse, Ibn Ob, Fatum Batula, which is one of the games in this itch.io bundle.

Tom: Shakedown Hawaii.

Phil: Oh, I love that game.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: As you know.

Tom: We were doing impressions on that at some point.

Tom: And probably a lot of others that I have failed to recall off the top of my head right now.

Tom: I played, I think, seconds or so of the Rabbids game.

Tom: There's another one.

Tom: So I have played a lot.

Tom: Those are just the two that I invested the most time into and beat so far.

Phil: I just picked up a copy of The Outer Worlds for the Switch, which I won't get to for decades.

Phil: But Journey to Another Planet, I picked that up as well based on your recommendation for the Switch.

Phil: I basically got a new strategy where I secretly put things into my Amazon shopping cart so that when my significant other goes to buy something that the family needs, I accidentally end up with a video game.

Phil: Which I should probably put that behind a paywall of some kind.

Phil: That's a hot tip and trick.

Phil: I've got to tell you, the Nintendo Switch favorite console of all time for me has been the SNES, the Super Nintendo for a very long period of time just because of the depth of its library and the brilliance of its colors.

Phil: Then it was the Dreamcast.

Phil: Then it was probably one of the PlayStation since that's the system for which I have the most games.

Phil: I'm going to say probably my favorite out of those is the PlayStation

Phil: But right now the Nintendo Switch to me is my favorite console ever because it fits the needs of my life which is sometimes I can play on screen, sometimes I can't.

Phil: It's got a tremendous library of independent games and Nintendo first party games.

Phil: I'm just really enjoying it.

Phil: If they just do nothing more than a Nintendo Switch for the next years, just upgrading the screens and making it lighter, improving the battery time, I'd be completely happy with it.

Tom: Which is probably what they're going to do.

Phil: I hope so.

Phil: I hope it's their next DS, you know, that becomes their DS, that becomes whatever is capable of after that.

Phil: And the other crazy thing is it's all back to where it started with a cartridge.

Phil: Like, yeah, obviously you download a lot of games and I've downloaded a lot of games.

Phil: But when I want to own a game and I want to have it as a part of my library, like Kirby, yeah, I could have downloaded it.

Phil: But no, I want the cartridge, I want that piece of plastic that I chunk in the way it all started with the original Nintendo.

Phil: And to it not be a disk-based system, which these days, you know, a disk-based system is ridiculous because it's basically just a license key that you put into a system and it downloads the game.

Phil: You know, and you know how much I hate that.

Phil: So I really like the fact that, you know, years from now, I'll be able to grab one of these, make sure my switch is offline, throw it in and be able to play it, I think is tremendous.

Tom: One criticism of the cartridge system I would make, which I think is a common criticism, is the boxes for the cartridges is absurd.

Tom: And I think they surely could have come up with a more aesthetically pleasing way and practical way of packaging these tiny cartridges.

Tom: Because the dimensions of what they came up with are this weird thing between the satisfying smallness of a PSbox and a standard DVD case, but thin.

Tom: And when you open it, games don't have manuals anymore.

Tom: So you've just got this giant blank space of plastic with a tiny cartridge inside it.

Tom: And it just looks totally absurd.

Phil: Would you have been appeased if they'd gone with a square?

Tom: I think that would have at least made it more interesting.

Phil: I think shelf space considerations are also an aspect because I've been working in product design.

Phil: And like the more shelf space you can take up, the easier it is for you to get the attention of someone who's walking by a shelf.

Phil: And there's also the shoplifting element as well.

Phil: Though obviously they put sensors in it and all the rest of it.

Phil: And whoever buys a game physically in a shop these days anyway.

Phil: But I hear what you're saying.

Phil: It has to be big enough that you can hold it in your hand.

Phil: And it's actually quite small in my hand.

Phil: But I do think, and I've become more sensitive to this sort of thing, like how sustainable is it?

Phil: At the same time, these games are not going to get recycled.

Phil: People who are buying physical games are not like buying the game, putting the cartridge into a folder and then throwing the case into the bin.

Phil: You know, like this is something that's going to live on a shelf or be recycled by handing it down or that sort of thing.

Phil: So, look, hey, am I crazy with my view of the Switch being the best console of all time?

Phil: Where are you with it?

Tom: Well, before I get to that, I have one other major criticism of it that is obviously much more important than the dimensions of the cases.

Tom: And that is on the Joy-Cons.

Tom: There's two issues.

Tom: One is the Bluetooth sensor is on the level of like a $Bluetooth mouse.

Tom: Where, if you do not have the Switch in front of the television, things like your leg can block the Bluetooth signal.

Tom: It's horrendously bad.

Tom: And two, this is possibly the worst D-pad on, certainly on a first-party controller I have ever come across.

Tom: It is just complete and utter shit.

Tom: It's awkward if you're doing anything diagonally.

Tom: The button presses don't feel satisfying and responsive, and it just feels completely crap to use.

Tom: That is all completely solved with the Pro Controller, again, demonstrating how awful the Bluetooth sensors are in it, which maybe that is one of the reasons they're so light, perhaps, but the Bluetooth on it is horrendous and the D-pads are even worse.

Tom: So those are two things I think that they really, really missed the ball on to a huge degree.

Phil: I absolutely agree.

Phil: The D-pad is horrendous.

Phil: Though for some reason when I'm playing it with the Joy-Cons, I don't notice.

Phil: But yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

Phil: It is the worst D-pad of all time.

Tom: But as a console in general and as something that is fun and interesting to interact with, there's a reason I only have a switch of the consoles this generation other than the fact that you can't actually buy the other two.

Tom: And that is consoles to me have become progressively less and less interesting as they have become basically cheap gaming PCs on which you can only play games.

Tom: And that's essentially how they're presenting themselves, if not as PCs, as PC related products where they have general design cues from things like modems and routers and things like that.

Tom: The Switch is very much an interesting product in and of itself that isn't just like a low profile PC or modem or router.

Tom: The way you interact with it is brilliant, where if you're playing it on television, you stick it in this satisfying slot.

Tom: And if you want to play with multiple people, you can give each person a single Joy-Con is genius as well, depending on the game.

Tom: That you can arrange how you want to use the Joy-Cons in different ways is brilliant as well.

Tom: And that it's also perfectly usable as a handheld is genius and just makes it an extremely enjoyable way to play games that is not an inferior way of PC gaming, essentially, which is what consoles have basically become at this point.

Phil: I completely agree.

Phil: There's nothing sexy about consoles.

Phil: There's nothing exciting about consoles.

Phil: Like when a console used to launch, I'd be running to a shop to get one.

Phil: And now it's kind of like, yeah, I get it.

Phil: They're both basically replaceable, you know.

Phil: And Microsoft, which like if I was going to get a system right now, trust me, I'd get the Microsoft one.

Phil: But like they've kind of downplayed it themselves by saying, hey, you know, you played on PC, played on Xbox, we don't really care, just subscribe to our service.

Phil: And then with the PlayStation, you know, they've got this really ugly, you know, design, like design with no compelling exclusives and they're all tipping their toes into the water because the component shortage.

Phil: So they're releasing Gran Turismo on the Gran Turismo, on the PlayStation and PlayStation

Phil: So, okay, well, you would have done that anyway.

Phil: Yeah, but you've taken away the proposition.

Phil: You've taken away.

Phil: It used to be you can only play this on our new console and that's given you a reason to go out and buy it.

Phil: Like there's no reason to go out and buy these consoles.

Phil: And like I was a Wii family.

Phil: Like I had a Wii and a and that pretty much covered me until the PlayStation came along.

Phil: And then a PC Wii, you know, like a PC Wii family, you know, that's fine.

Phil: And right now it's like between PC and Switch, I'm pretty much covered.

Phil: I can play all the games I want to play.

Phil: And then they keep bastardizing their new systems by releasing games like Horizon on the old hardware.

Phil: But I don't want to play it on the old hardware because I know it's going to be a compromised, you know, or it's going to be a compromise.

Phil: So, yeah, I agree.

Phil: And the other thing is, like, with the cartridge on the Switch, you know that you're going to get most of the game and the updates are going to be small.

Phil: With the consoles, you know, you really are, as I said before, just buying a disc with a license key.

Phil: And if I'm going to do that, then I may as well just download it on my PC, which I know the custodians, be it Microsoft or Linux, will let me carry it on and on and on for the next years.

Phil: You know, if I buy Serious Sam today for PC or for Linux, I'm pretty confident that it's going to be a way for me to play that years from now.

Phil: If I buy Horizon on the PlayStation I'm pretty confident I'm going to be not able to play that years from now.

Tom: I think that's probably due to Nintendo's strategy rather than the cartridge, because in the Wii U and Wii, they weren't really moving in that direction either.

Tom: So I think that's probably a strategy of having, if you buy the game, you can actually play it without too many issues, would probably still be the case.

Tom: I will add though, Nintendo is certainly guilty of these online problems, because setting up this Switch on Christmas Day to be able to play anything was naturally impossible, because to get updates and that sort of thing required you to connect to a server that was totally incapable of dealing with the quantity of people trying to connect to it all at once.

Tom: So even with the Switch, that is still there, just to a massively lesser degree.

Tom: But the one other feature I would add, which is good, and I think perhaps the PSand Xbox, whatever the fuck it's called, may do this as well that is very useful, which you've mentioned as well, is the fact that if you put the console to sleep, when you go back to it, you can continue from exactly where you were in any game.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, which is fantastic.

Phil: And I've also enjoyed it for its travel capacity.

Phil: Like I do most of my gaming when I'm traveling.

Phil: If not every night, I try to game every single day.

Phil: But I cannot overstate how friendly it is to someone who's got a busy lifestyle because while the family is watching TV, I can be watching TV with them, be present, but still be playing my game.

Phil: The one downside to it is insensitive game designers who don't understand font sizes that don't translate to the handheld.

Phil: So I popped in The Outer Worlds and updated it.

Phil: I popped in Journey to Another World and started playing it.

Phil: And on a handheld, it's like, I can't even read this.

Phil: And it's not just because I'm old.

Phil: I have glasses and contact lenses and things like that.

Phil: But if you're going to be doing text only subtitles, you need to be able to read them on a handheld screen.

Tom: I'm yet to encounter that problem.

Tom: So maybe it is in fact your eyes and decrepit age.

Phil: Well, that's ageism, man.

Phil: Okay, so any final thoughts before we close off this podcast on the Switch?

Tom: I think that's pretty much on the Switch.

Tom: The one thing I would say, you mentioned Gran Turismo which reminds me, I have actually started that.

Phil: Well, can we tease that?

Phil: Can we say that?

Tom: I will just say one thing on it.

Tom: That is simultaneously a completely revolutionary racing game and a complete and utter shit show of the highest order at exactly the same time.

Phil: That's what I've heard.

Tom: So look forward to impressions of it.

Phil: In episode of The Game Under Podcast, thank you for joining us for episode

Phil: I've been your host, Mr.

Phil: Phil Fogg.

Tom: I've been the superior host, Sir Tom Towers.

Phil: So your pronouns are Sir and...

Tom: Sir and Your Majesty.

Phil: Right on, man.

Phil: Man.

Game Under Podcast 139

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Since Phil is on assignment, Tom and Red recorded another short episode analyzing a tentacular genre of Japanese film. Some slight technical difficulties are in this episode..

Thanks for listening to this (non-canon) episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Transcript
WEBVTT

Tom: Hello, and welcome to episode two of the Slime Under Podcast.

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I'm joined by my co-host, as always, Red.

Red: Yes, it's very nice to be back for a second episode.

Red: I never thought that we would be able to make a second one, to be quite honest.

Red: Well, yes, I am glad to be here again.

Tom: And we're glad to have you back, and we're here to discuss yet another in what may actually be a series, I think.

Tom: I think the production company that makes them is called Attackers, and they all have a pretty similar quality to them, and there may be an underlying plot to them, I'm not entirely sure, as some of them appear to share similar settings, so I don't know if that is just simply to reuse sets, and save a bit of money, or if there is some sort of ongoing plot.

Red: You're getting into the lore too early now.

Tom: I am indeed.

Tom: But the episode we're watching this time is Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles.

Tom: There was also a mouthful in the episode itself as well, at various points.

Red: Oh, yes, that is true.

Tom: But I think you're good at the plot summary, so why don't you start us out with a description of what is going on in Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles?

Red: All right, since, well, technically I did quite understand what they were saying in this video, actually.

Red: Despite them speaking in Japanese, yeah, despite them speaking in Japanese.

Tom: Is this from Japanese that you have picked up from watching entertainment pieces like this?

Red: Yeah, not exactly this genre.

Red: Technically not this genre at all.

Red: So just anime in general, is it?

Red: Yeah, I've just watched Japanese media, but not this kind of media.

Red: This was the second time I watched something like this.

Red: I can say I'm not an expert in this particular area, but you know.

Tom: But you are in the animated version, I believe.

Red: Wait, I just exposed myself.

Red: Why would you do that?

Tom: Well, that's why we have you on here.

Tom: We need an expert.

Tom: I'm filling in the role of the naive amateur being plunged into the deep end of this sort of content.

Red: Should I get started on explaining the plotline?

Red: The quote unquote plotline.

Red: So basically, this started off with a couple, a married couple moving into a new house.

Red: And this, excuse me, this.

Red: So basically, it was in the morning, and they were having breakfast.

Red: And basically, they were chatting about how great their lives are going to be in this new house.

Red: And they were actually also planning to have children.

Red: And they were so happy about everything, everything that was there.

Red: So after their meals, the wife was already sending her husband off to work.

Red: And after that, she decided to start cleaning her new house, which the entire time while she was cleaning, the camera angles in those particular scenes were quite interesting.

Tom: They were highlighting various interesting parts of her character, would be one way to put it.

Red: Body characteristics.

Red: Yes.

Red: Yeah, so I guess this is also another way to build up tension for the viewers, showing a little bit here, showing a little bit here, a little bit there.

Red: Despite the fact when she was cleaning the bathroom, she was wearing some a bit goofy looking shoes.

Red: They were like bathroom slippers, but in the form of crocs.

Tom: Well, she was dressed for the setting.

Red: I actually invited my friend to watch this with me, and those shoes made us question a lot about life.

Red: Have you ever worn crocs?

Red: Not exactly.

Red: I know that is surprising, but no.

Red: Actually, we don't wear shoes when we're cleaning the bathrooms.

Tom: I hear they're meant to be comfortable, so maybe that's why she was wearing them.

Red: But for a setting like that, it's a bit odd, I'd say.

Tom: Maybe it was foreshadowing that the floor would very soon be in a state that might encourage you to wear something to protect your feet.

Red: But unfortunately, the situation didn't take place in the bathroom that she worked so hard to clean there.

Tom: I believe it took place in the lounge room.

Tom: It made a pile of boxes.

Tom: She was unpacking things, perhaps.

Red: Yes, she was.

Red: After cleaning the bathroom, she went to the lounge room, as you said, and as how the normal setting goes, she was grabbed by the ankle by this mystical creature.

Red: And thus the action started.

Red: Let's not get graphic as usual, since you never know who might be listening to this.

Red: But basically...

Tom: This is a family-friendly show.

Red: Yes, yes.

Red: So basically the vigorous action went on basically for the entire afternoon, I'd say.

Tom: And I think the most notable thing about the vigorous action in this particular installment was it featured many more fluids of multiple different colors and consistencies compared to...

Red: How many colors did you see?

Tom: I think there were two, at least two.

Tom: There was a standard sort of whitish translucent liquid, but there was also one that had a little bit of a yellowish-greenish tinge to it, so that it had a more sort of mucous consistency to it.

Red: I think my brain decided to delete on that note, because I do not remember it having colors.

Tom: Well, I'm glad I can put it out, because we don't want to downplay the amount of effort they put into the aesthetic of the fluids that they featured in this particular episode.

Red: Yeah, yeah, maybe I shouldn't judge them that much.

Red: All right, so after her afternoon session with the mystical creature, I believe she passed out, which Tom here believes that she was almost drowned by the fluids.

Tom: Well, there was a lot.

Tom: There was a fountain of fluids spraying all over her.

Tom: All over her face.

Tom: So drowning was a serious possibility.

Red: Touche, true, true.

Red: But yeah, basically she passed out, and I believe it was evening when her husband finally came home from work, and her husband found her passed out, huddled on the floor.

Tom: In a very disheveled state.

Red: Yes, oddly enough, there wasn't the said fluids that was around her.

Red: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Red: You believe they dried up, okay?

Tom: Correct.

Red: But yes, if you were a husband and you found out, you came home to see that your wife was passed out in the middle of the living room, wouldn't you start to panic?

Tom: Because this husband did not.

Red: Yes, because this husband did not.

Red: He just calmly woke, tried to wake her up.

Red: He was like, Oh, dear wife, are you okay?

Red: As he starts to shake her.

Red: And she did.

Red: Thankfully, she woke up.

Red: And she was so confused by what happened.

Red: So she, I believe she tried to prove like what happened to her did not happen.

Red: Actually, she tried to tell her husband that she's been assaulted.

Tom: Assaulted, yeah.

Red: So basically she tried to tell her husband, you know, something basically assaulted her.

Red: But as usual, as a normal human being would, he would think that she was hallucinating.

Red: So he decided to laugh it off and believe that her wife was basically bad shit crazy.

Tom: So he's an absolutely terrible husband we're discovering at this point.

Red: Basically, he has basically just believes that her wife just naturally passed out half clothed in the living room.

Tom: In the middle of unpacking the boxes.

Red: But basically that scene wasn't that long.

Red: It was just to insert plot, I believe, the quote unquote plot.

Tom: I think so.

Red: So after that situation, they also did their own session of vigorous action on the bed.

Tom: But it was less vigorous than the action with the creature.

Red: Yeah, the husband tried his best to entertain his wife.

Red: But the wife was constantly reminded of the wonderful time she had with the creature.

Tom: Understandably, given the way that her husband has treated her up to this point.

Red: Yeah, that's true.

Red: So after their session, she did ask her husband whether if they wanted to take a bath, because, you know, you're sticky.

Red: So you wouldn't want to go to bed in that state.

Tom: But in this case...

Tom: I think this is adding, in fact, more detail to how terrible husband he is.

Tom: I think he's come home stinking before this point.

Tom: And so now she's attempting to use a post-coital shower as an excuse to get him to bathe, but even this isn't working.

Tom: So I think this is just another layer to his very unattractive character that they're living under at this point.

Red: Sprinkle in more of the theories as we go on.

Red: So since her husband didn't want her to take a bath, she decided to go downstairs and take a bath by herself.

Red: But oddly enough, I believe she was heading towards the bathroom, but she heard noises in the pantry slash kitchen area.

Red: As all of us do, we will try to investigate what the noise is.

Tom: Naturally.

Red: And she just actually, the bathroom wasn't that far from the kitchen slash pantry.

Red: She just took a few steps there, and I actually don't know what she was looking at.

Red: The camera wasn't actually showing anything.

Red: But all of a sudden, the creatures decided, was like, hey, surprise!

Red: And started choking her.

Red: But even as she was being choked, she was not struggling.

Red: Instead, she was being choked, but instead of struggling, she decided to grab on one of the creatures' appendages and decided to stroke it.

Red: Yes.

Red: And thus starts our second session of vigorous action with the said creature, with this time with even more fluids.

Tom: They build up as the episode unfolds to greater and greater heights, it must be said.

Red: True, true, exactly.

Tom: But at this point, as we can tell from the immediate post-choking stroking, she is at this stage now fully invested in her new lava.

Red: So basically, she's like half invested.

<v SPEAKER_>She wasn't fully in love with this being yet.

Red: She was still quite dedicated to her husband.

Red: She was still caught between the two at this point.

Red: Yeah, yeah.

Red: She had a conflicting moment.

Red: Yeah, so after that night, I believe she didn't have a wink of sleep.

Red: Yeah, I believe the situation just cuts to her waking up in the morning and finally taking her bath and sending her husband off to work.

Tom: But he still has not died once thus far.

Red: Maybe he did off screen, who knows?

Red: Yeah, yeah.

Red: So but even the next morning, like when they were having their breakfast, she was in quite a daze, because she couldn't really pay attention to what her husband was talking.

Red: And she had to ask her, her husband had to ask her, are you okay?

Red: Like, you're kind of absent minded right now.

<v SPEAKER_>She was like, oh, no, it's fine.

Red: Maybe I just didn't sleep that much, obviously.

Tom: The husband didn't ask why though, luckily.

Red: True, yeah, yeah.

Tom: Which once again is another example against him.

Red: You're building up like arguments against this husband.

Tom: I just saying, I think I can understand and relate to her in this role at this point.

Tom: I'm starting to empathize with her and perhaps take her side.

Red: But maybe the story afterwards, maybe you'll change your mind.

Red: Yeah, so after that, she did try to do some cleaning, I believe, but she was immediately reminded of her lovely night with her, basically lover at this point.

Tom: Yep.

Red: Yeah, so she decided to have a little self-love moment, but that wasn't enough for her, so she tried to go search for her lover who was hiding among somewhere in her house.

Tom: Well, I think this is probably my favourite scene in the whole cinematic masterpiece, where she is looking through various cupboards in the house, and I thought this was actually legitimately, deliberately funny, so I have to give them credit for it.

Red: Oh, she tried looking into a pot, and that got me.

Red: I have to say that got me.

Red: The hide-and-seek session ended with her finding her lover in the toilet seat.

Tom: Given that this was working in the toilet, perhaps not the cleanest part of the house, I think perhaps the questionable hygiene of a husband was something that may have attracted her to him in the first place.

Tom: I think we're starting to get a picture of what her type might be at this point.

Red: Oh, so she likes the nasty guy.

Red: It's going to make me feel something at the back of my throat, let's not.

Red: So yeah, so basically after finding her lover inside the toilet, she had another lovely session with it.

Red: And yeah, skipping to all that, that was also another fluid fest.

Tom: It was indeed.

Tom: Yeah, so she...

Tom: At least it took place in the bathroom where the floor is tiled, so the cleanup would be easier, although given that it just evaporates instantly, it probably doesn't matter anyway.

Red: True, true.

Red: So basically after that scene, I believe it cuts to her husband coming home, and I believe her husband did try to invite her for another vigorous action session, but she wasn't interested.

Red: She happily told her husband that.

Red: Let's not.

Red: And proceeded to sleep.

Red: So as husbands do, they believe that with his wife saying that she does not want to do it, he believes that she was cheating on him, which is technically true.

Red: Yeah, basically, he was right.

Red: So in order to basically catch her red-handed, he basically told a lie to his wife, saying that he was going on a business trip the next day.

Red: I keep on mispronouncing their pronouns.

Tom: That's okay.

Red: You're misgendering them.

Red: Yeah.

Red: So basically, after his wife prepared his suitcase and all, to send him off for his quote unquote business trip.

Red: So after he left the house, the wife believed that he wouldn't come back in a few days.

Red: So she decided to happily skip to find her lover again, that was hiding somewhere again inside the house.

Red: I would assume the toilet again.

Tom: I can't remember where it was actually either.

Red: They didn't show where it was.

Tom: So we just cut straight to the action.

Red: Yeah, it just ended with her skipping to somewhere to find where the fuck was it.

Red: But yeah, so basically after that, it cuts to her husband who was smoking outside their house until evening.

Tom: I also found that shot quite amusing where he's just standing in a park, chainsawing, waiting to return.

Red: It wasn't a park, it was one of like, he was just legit standing in front of his house the whole day.

Tom: Yeah, across the street, but I think it was the entrance to a park that he was standing in.

Red: Yeah, that might be true, actually.

Red: But I just remember he was just standing beside, he was standing beside a lamp post, I believe, with the cigarette buds on the floor, which indicates that he stood there for quite some time.

Tom: Very subtle storytelling there, that they give you the progression of time through the number of cigarette buds.

Red: Well, basically, the sun was already setting in that scene, so you can kind of guess.

Tom: They're building on the imagery.

Red: So basically, not questioning if it's weird, if someone just stood there for the entire day.

Red: He did not saw anyone going into the house, which would mean that she wasn't cheating, but he decided to do a bold move and decided to enter the house and tried to hear if there is any noises, which in fact, he did.

Tom: There were certainly noises.

Red: Yeah, he heard noises, and he was immediately like shooketh.

Red: And he head towards the noise and decided to open the door.

Red: And what does he see?

Red: He sees his wife being surrounded by plenty of appendages, and she was enjoying whatever the hell was happening to her.

Tom: And very much drenched in a variety of fluids as well.

Red: At this point, yes.

Red: But surprisingly, she still had her underwear on.

Tom: That is true.

Red: Yes.

Red: So he was basically actually at that scene, it was also a bit weird, because the camera didn't show his reaction, because if usually someone sees that situation, they would just immediately either start screaming or start questioning that person, what the hell is going on?

Red: But no, it took him like a few minutes for him to post his question to his wife and ask, what is this?

Red: In a very shocked manner.

Red: And she was again drowned in pleasure.

Red: She just looked at her husband all drowsy, and she was like, I'm sorry, dear.

Red: And one of the appendages decided to choke him, and they choked him to death.

Tom: Which I personally was very disappointed in.

Red: Yes, that is the same for me, because what me and my friend expected is that we expected the creature to bring the husband into the act.

Tom: That's exactly what I was hoping for.

Red: Yeah, technically it would have been more fun, but I guess the creature wanted the lady or two itself.

Tom: Unfortunately, it turned out to be even more of a jealous lover than the husband.

Red: Yeah, it could have done that anytime sooner, but we just decided to do this now, for plot reasons, I believe.

Tom: Though alternatively, given the previous choking, perhaps it actually did intend to invite the husband to join them.

Tom: But unfortunately, in this case, the erotic asphyxiation went too far, as it sometimes does in reality, and he was accidentally killed.

Red: Accidentally?

Red: That's what you believe, right?

Tom: It is a possibility.

Red: You know, all theories are accepted.

Red: But after the death of her husband, they went on even with the dead body in front of them for the rest of the video.

Red: And unfortunately, I believe you were quite disappointed with the ending because there wasn't any pregnancy at the end.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: And given the foreshadowing of her wanting to have children with the husband, I think that in fact would have been an even better ending.

Tom: They literally set it up and yet did not follow through on the premise.

Tom: There's a famous quote, I think, by Chekhov, which is along the lines of, If story has a gun in it, it has to be fired at some point.

Tom: And I think this is a case where that sort of advice was not really followed.

Red: Well, I guess the director decided, excuse me, I guess the director decided to fire all his load on that one scene.

Tom: But he was unfortunately shooting blanks.

Red: Mm-hmm.

Red: But I believe his target audience would be quite satisfied with whatever that went on with in that video.

Tom: Well, there was a lot of action in it, so I'd say so.

Tom: I would say so.

Tom: But...

Red: Yeah, but you believe that, you believe that there wasn't much plot in this one.

Tom: I felt there was less plot than in the, the episode we discussed in the previous episode of the Slime Under Podcast, correct?

Tom: And I think the story was a little less complex.

Tom: If it had become a menage a trois, I think it may have been on a similar level of complexity.

Tom: And if they had followed through on the whole pregnancy angle that was previously in the episode at the beginning, I think while it still would have been simpler than the previous complicated detective plot in the other episode, it would have been satisfying in a short and sweet simple love story that would have worked well.

Tom: But I think without that there, it was ultimately...

Red: A short and sweet there.

Tom: It would have been, I think...

Red: Well, it ended with them living happily ever after.

Tom: What was that?

Red: Oh, well, basically, but the story in this one ended with them properly being lovers.

Red: Even, I believe, in the future, they would have children.

Red: But we just don't get to see it in this one.

Tom: Well, that's what I'm saying.

Tom: The other one was willing to skip ahead to the heavily pregnant woman, so it must have skipped head several months.

Tom: I think we could have expected that from this one as well.

Tom: But I think the reason...

Red: I'm pretty sure, but maybe they didn't have enough budget.

Tom: I was about to say probably the reason they didn't do that is maybe they wanted to use a separate set for that.

Tom: But is it that hard?

Tom: I mean, they could probably have taken part of the tentacle puppet and just wound it into a ball and stuck it under her shirt, and that would have been enough.

Tom: So I think it would have been in the budget constraints.

Tom: I think the issue was in the writing, not living up to the potential that was there.

Red: I got to admit, I thought you said you were going to say that you wanted them to stuff the puppet into her.

Tom: Well, I think they did that at various points already.

Red: That would be concerning.

Tom: I think that had previously occurred during some of the action scenes.

Red: Oh, it wasn't that deep.

Red: Those things weren't that big.

Tom: Parts of them were, not a whole ball of them.

<v SPEAKER_>One part of them were.

Red: Yes, but at least that thing didn't went in her, which I regret that I don't have to see that.

Tom: I don't think they could have done that with actors.

Tom: We could have had that occur in an animated version, but probably not with actors.

Red: Oh, even an animated one, I can't deal with that.

Red: It's still weird.

Red: Oh, God.

Red: I think I would actually bark if they actually did that, but, you know, thankfully they spared me from needing to clean up my room.

Tom: Luckily.

Tom: But I think it's time we get into the themes of the show of Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles.

Red: So we're getting into this?

Tom: Yeah, I have some deep thoughts on this.

Tom: Would you like to begin or me?

Red: Well, I basically have the same...

Red: Wait, the same what?

Red: Oh, wait, I basically have the same vision of the same...

Red: English, my goodness.

Red: Oh, we got deep into this.

Red: My goodness.

Red: My brain was just sobering up for a second.

Tom: Do you want me to begin?

Red: Yeah, I have the same thought as our previous session.

Red: I don't think much.

Red: I just accept what they give me.

Tom: That is fair.

Red: Yeah, I don't think much into this.

Tom: You're the expert at the plot, I'm the expert at the themes.

Red: At the theories, yes.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: There's one thing you didn't mention that I thought was actually an important detail throughout it that really underscore what I thought the themes were about, and that is you did mention one thing that came up, which was that when she was cleaning the bathroom, she was wearing crocs.

Tom: But of course, in Japanese culture, you do not wear shoes within the house, generally speaking.

Tom: So that was one of the first things I thought that was a little odd.

Tom: The other thing I thought that was odd was they went to the effort of showing what the husband was eating for breakfast every day.

Tom: And he was wearing a suit and tie and carrying a suitcase to work.

Tom: And every breakfast he had, he was eating buttered toast.

Tom: Again, a very Western meal.

Tom: And so I actually thought that this episode was about the American occupation of Japan and the Westernization of Japanese culture that occurred with that.

Tom: So you have the uninteresting and bland, Westernized husband who is symbolizing the American occupation of Japan.

Tom: And this does not satisfy the wife at all.

Tom: And then you have the tentacle monster which goes back to Japanese culture as far back as Hokusai and Woodblock Prince of women mating with octopuses and that sort of thing.

Tom: And she's just blown away by the authentic Japanese culture that she experiences from her tentacle lover.

Tom: So I thought this was very much an anti-American treatise, very much criticizing the American occupation of Japan after the Second World War.

<v SPEAKER_>Wait, I have a question.

<v SPEAKER_>What do you think people wear to work if it's not suit and tie?

Tom: Well, now they wear a suit and tie after the occupation of Japan.

<v SPEAKER_>It's said in a modern society.

<v SPEAKER_>What do you expect?

Tom: I'm just saying that that became universalized with the occupation.

Tom: It began, of course, earlier than that with the industrialization of Japan in the s, but it did not reach a fully ubiquitous state of dress until we get to the further modernization of Japan during American occupation.

<v SPEAKER_>Oh, my goodness, I could never think of that.

<v SPEAKER_>Oh, okay, I have heard enough.

Red: That is enough, I have enough of whatever the fuck you are saying.

Red: So basically, you're saying that she's attracted to traditional men.

Tom: That's right, yes.

Tom: And the basic theme of it is asserting the superiority of traditional Japanese values over the Western ones that have been implanted into Japanese culture of today.

Red: So, I have no words.

Red: I have no words.

Red: You blew, you took the words right off of my mouth, literally.

Red: That was an amazing theory.

<v SPEAKER_>Thank you.

<v SPEAKER_>Yes.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: Yeah, I'm pretty sure even the director wouldn't have thought of any of this.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: Yeah, they should have put more plot in this, good Lord.

Red: How did you mention all of this?

Tom: The less plot, the greater themes you can make out of it.

Tom: Paradoxically.

Red: Since there's like no, like there's no canon universe.

Tom: That's right, you get to write it yourself.

Red: Maybe you should start a book on this.

Red: Wait, maybe not.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: Yeah, I believe that should be all.

Red: We shouldn't bring any more theories into this.

Tom: I think that's probably pretty much everything we have to say on a Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles at this stage.

Tom: I don't think we can really add more to it than that.

Red: I don't think I can add more.

Red: You're stick the cake.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Tom: So I think it's time we give it a rating.

Tom: The first one we discussed, I think you gave it a seven out of and I gave it a six out of

Red: That was because of a dice, yes.

Tom: Yes, did you enjoy this one more or less than the previous one?

Red: Plot wise, I'd say yes, because there was conflict.

Red: Yeah, and I really enjoy conflict.

Red: So I would say I would give it like, a point higher than the previous one.

Tom: So eight out of

Red: Yes.

Tom: That's high praise, very high praise.

Red: Yes, yes.

Tom: I think I probably enjoyed it slightly less, because I was very much into the whole detective subplot in the other one.

Tom: But on the other hand, it did have a legitimately and deliberately funny moment in it.

Tom: And I found the character of the husband and the wife very amusing throughout.

Tom: So overall, probably I enjoyed it about the same, but we will see what the die of destiny has to say about my true thoughts on it.

Red: Very well, very well.

Red: Let destiny decide it for you then.

Tom: Well, apparently what I described as my feelings were actually correct, because the die of destiny has rolled another six.

Red: Oh, so basically, you can say it's kind of the same, but since you feel that it would be better, so basically you can give it a seven.

Tom: No, it's a six out of

Tom: The die, whatever the result is, is the result that I stick with.

Red: Oh, so it's just, all right.

Red: So, all right, I'll accept it.

Tom: So, with that, I think we've reached the end of episode two of the Slime Under Podcast.

Tom: I have been your host, Tom Towers, and you, Red, have been my co-host.

Tom: Is there anything you'd like to leave the listeners with before we go?

Red: Please do not go and research anymore in depth into this genre, because I really don't recommend, unless you're in for a laugh, you can laugh for the rest, because you can laugh for, even with times too speed, you can laugh for quite some time watching these.

Tom: I do recommend watching a lot of it sped up as they are quite long.

Red: Unfortunately, I did not.

Tom: So you watched the whole thing on normal speed.

Red: I did not watch normally.

Red: I skipped a few parts.

Tom: So your strategy is to skip parts, and my strategy is to speed it up.

Tom: Both of us.

Red: Yeah, but it was fun, you know.

Red: So if any of you guys are bored, you can, you know, you can watch it, but I really don't recommend.

Tom: You don't recommend the thing you gave an eight out of

Red: That was because of, that was because of it.

Red: It was my personal experience, okay?

Red: I lost my brain cells for this session.

Tom: That is fair.

Red: That was a wild ride.

Red: But my goodness, your theories, I cannot handle.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: I wanted to laugh harder, but I'm pretty sure my parents are going to be questioning.

Red: I could not think of all that bullshit.

Red: Maybe next time, I should think of my theories instead of leaving it up to you.

Red: Well, if your friend decided to allow us to do another third installment in this.

Red: I'm looking forward to seeing what he thinks of it.

Red: Yeah, he should watch the two links.

Tom: He needs to watch them and leave his comment on the episode.

Red: I'm surprised you didn't send him the link, actually, because the friend that I watched it with, after we finished watching it, he immediately sent to his other friends.

Red: And even one of his friends said that, yo, I recognize that actor.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Tom: But he's the true expert.

Red: He don't know much of it, but he just said that he recognized the actor, I guess, by watching others, other works, I guess.

Tom: Something we didn't mention on here was, I have to say, I am very impressed by the actors not co-op sing at any point.

Red: I mean, basically, all the actors in these, you know, type of shows are always, you know, good actors.

Tom: They are true professionals.

Red: I'm surprised their voice could hold up that long.

Red: I just hope whatever that was sprayed in their mouth is actually properly edible.

Red: Because I don't want that to be like crops that you can't digest.

Game Under Podcast 138

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Since Phil is on assignment, Tom and Red recorded a short episode analyzing a tentacular genre of Japanese film. There are some slight technical difficulties that are corrected in future episodes of Slime Under Podcast.

Thanks for listening to this (non-canon) episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Transcript
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode one of the Slime Under Podcast.

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I'm joined by my co-host, Red.

Red: Yes, hello everyone.

Red: I'm very excited to be here with my dear friend Tom.

Tom: You're actually the expert on this show.

Tom: That's why you're here.

Tom: I'm just here for the color.

Red: I can't really say I'm the expert.

Red: Just been exposed to some of them.

Tom: You exposed yourself to some of them, you might say.

Red: Some of them, yes.

Tom: And these things we're referring to, we won't be discussing the types of things that Red has seen the most of, but we will be discussing an outcropping of it, which is live action, adult-orientated, tentacle romance videos, I would call them.

Tom: Is that a fair description?

Red: There's a lot of censorship, but yes, very fair.

Tom: Well, with the censorship, they're pretty family-friendly, aren't they, actually?

Red: Are you sure about that?

Tom: Well, I mean, there's technically less nudity than there is in German or Italian children's films, for example.

Red: Not to say I've watched them, but in the one that I watched with you, that wasn't exactly family-friendly, I'd say.

Tom: So even with the censorship, it wasn't family-friendly.

Red: Technically, did they censor them?

Tom: And it did feature puppets as well, so I think it was clearly aimed at children.

Red: Oh, I digress.

Tom: But what was the title of this modern-day Romeo and Juliet tale that we watched?

Red: It was the first one.

Red: Oh dear, I don't quite remember.

Red: Maybe it's best not to mention the name for specific reasons.

Tom: Well, so we will just describe what we watched then without a title.

Tom: Reference to the...

Red: Should I explain the plot?

Tom: Why don't you describe it?

Tom: Go ahead.

Red: Oh, okay.

Red: Technically the first one we watched was, I would say, interesting.

Red: It started off with an investigator who is investigating a crime scene, since the whole video was in Japanese.

Red: She and her partner found some very gleeful substances that was present at that particular crime scene.

Red: I do not know what happened, actually.

Red: At that moment, I guess someone disappeared or something in that hospital room, I guess.

Tom: It was a bit hard to tell what exactly was going on.

Tom: But given that it was a detective story of sorts, perhaps that is in its favour, that it's hard to tell what's going on, so that it keeps you on the edge of your seat as you wander.

Red: Basically, your protagonist is trying to solve this mystery.

Red: But she did the very smart move of trying to impersonate a doctor and infiltrating the hospital at night.

Red: And if my fellow listeners can't adapt in this, this genre, I would say, is that the protagonist would try to dress herself for the occasion.

Red: So she entered a changing room, and she found herself a doctor's coat, and she proceeded to change.

Red: She proceeded to wear the doctor's coat, thinking that she is having a great disguise for infiltrating a hospital at night.

Red: After changing, she went out, and just by walking on one corridor turning left, she got caught by an actual doctor.

Tom: And as you would expect to happen in a hospital, if a doctor finds someone impersonating a doctor, his immediate reaction was to be in stripping her naked.

Red: Yes, I believe that is what would happen if it happens in real life.

Tom: Which is, understand, all that looking for weapons and other concealed items that might be dangerous.

Red: Yes, he proceeded to take...

Red: Wait, the thing is, I don't think investigators possess guns.

Red: I don't think...

Red: I mean, they're investigators.

Red: I don't think they would have guns.

Tom: It might have been said in America.

Red: I don't think...

Red: They are speaking Japanese.

Tom: So, then everyone would have a gun.

Red: I mean, maybe, no.

Red: Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe.

Red: So, for some reason, our dear investigator had a gun, and she didn't fight back for some reason when the doctor took the gun out of her hand.

Tom: Very poor training.

Tom: And we can conclude it was definitely not said in America then, or she would have immediately shot him.

Tom: But go on.

Red: Yes.

Red: I believe that scene was to build up tension for the viewers, like the doctor slowly...

Red: The doctor that caught her was not convinced, even though she's taken off her clothes, that she is not convinced that there is no deadly weapon or I don't know what would she be hiding in her underwears.

Tom: I think they were about to go on to a cavity search until a nurse discovered them.

Red: Yes, but technically until that part, I have a lot of questions for that scene too, because when one of the authorities came and chased after the doctor who decided to strip her for some reason, they ran away in such an awkward way.

Red: I couldn't take the video seriously.

Tom: I'm wondering if perhaps, given that the doctors ran away when the nurse appeared, I think it was a nurse, that the doctors ran away.

Red: The nurse was the one who informed the authorities.

Red: The night guard, I guess.

Tom: Yeah, well, when they were interrupted, given that the doctors ran away, I think the twist is that they were also only pretending to be doctors.

Tom: But we're doing something else in the hospital.

Red: Could be, could be.

Red: I mean...

Tom: That's my theory.

Red: Since we don't understand, since we don't understand the language, you know, theories can come from any direction.

Tom: But what were your questions about the same?

Red: Well, of course, the stripping part was very questionable.

Red: She was voluntarily stripping herself, just to prove her innocence.

Tom: Shows how committed she is.

Red: And that is...

Red: Yes, but maybe that's the question that's seen anymore.

Red: The more questioning part is after that.

Tom: So what happens after this scene?

Tom: And we should add that this discussion does feature spoilers.

Red: Yes, it was skipping after that getting chased away scene.

Red: I think there was a time skip after a week or something.

Red: She got contacted from the nurse from the hospital saying that I guess her investigative friend was also arrested.

Red: I have a lot of questions.

Red: She's trying her best to find out what happened during the crime scene at that hospital, but it wasn't really making much sense to the audience.

Tom: Do you think it would have made less or more sense if we could understand Japanese?

Red: I'm pretty sure they would have better contact if we understood the language, but based on just watching it, you can just kind of get the gist of it.

Red: But the plot was just there as extra for you to understand how did our dear investigator ended up in her situation.

Tom: And how would you describe the situation that she ends up in exactly?

Red: Hmm, very, quite sticky, I'd say.

Tom: I think that is a good description of it.

Red: But after skipping all that, for some reason she decided to go back to the hospital.

Red: And she managed to get the information, quote unquote information from one of the laptops in the.

Red: While she was exiting the hospital, she accidentally stepped on something gooey.

Red: Even explaining it now, I can picture all that shit.

Tom: It's got very striking imagery.

Tom: It's very, very powerful.

Red: As normal people do when they see a glowing green light behind a curtain, she went and invited her back.

Red: She opened the curtains, and all of a sudden, something grabbed her ankle, and started pulling her into the room.

Red: And thus, how long was that scene?

Red: Like one and a half hours of very action, very vigorous action began.

Tom: It was quite long, very long.

Tom: I would argue perhaps a little bit too long.

Red: The plot was only for like minutes.

Tom: But after this, she returned home.

Tom: So her first encounter...

Red: Oh yeah, you can do the ending once you're done.

Tom: You did the first half of the plot, I'll cover the second half.

Tom: So after her first encounter with this mystery creature in the hospital, in a room glowing green, which perhaps may have some themes to it that we'll get to at the end of our discussion on it.

Tom: But after this, she returns home in a very disheveled state.

Tom: But as she thinks about her experience with this monster, she begins to grow a little bit of sympathy and feeling for it, I would say.

Tom: Did you get the same impression?

Red: Yes.

Red: It is...

Red: She felt like a...

Red: I feel like after her very intimate action with those creatures, she started growing feelings for those...

Red: I can't really call it things, that would be too rude.

Tom: It's very endearing, very endearing.

Tom: But so, as the story continues, this relationship continues to blossom.

Tom: And the investigation plot does continue, but it's a little hard to tell what exactly she discovers as the story goes along, given that neither of us can speak Japanese.

Tom: But one detail we can discern is that the nurse that was helping her was actually on the side of the mystery creature, because at a later point in the film, we see her interacting with it and in fact helping it.

Tom: So that's an interesting wrinkle in the plot, which unfortunately our lack of Japanese can't make too much sense of, but was an interesting twist.

Tom: But by the end of the film, there's to me a very touching ending, where we return to as we began the film, in a very ring story structure moment, we return to just a standard hospital bed.

Tom: This case, instead of it being a crime scene, the protagonist is lying in bed, very heavily pregnant, and the nurse who introduced her to her new life partner is there as well, and they share a little conversation celebrating the pregnancy of the relationship that she helped set up, and I thought that was very touching and effective.

Tom: And not the direction I expected to go in either, given the whole detective subplot.

Red: Yes, that is my response.

Red: That is my response for the entire segment.

Red: Oh my goodness, I didn't, I wasn't able to get to the end, because due to my very poor connection, and I'm pretty sure the FBI agent is probably watching me.

Tom: Might be the FBI agent in the show that is watching you.

Red: No, that's not a theory we will get to.

Tom: You may be paid a visit by an investigator who will lead you to a glowing green room.

Tom: Do not enter it, whatever you do.

Red: Oh God, if you watch me, if I step on something gooey on the floor, my first instinct is to run.

Red: I ain't gonna investigate that shit.

Red: Yeah, should we get into the theories of what, of this first video that we saw?

Tom: I think it's time we get into a serious and deep thematic analysis.

Tom: Absolutely.

Red: I'm pretty sure you have more theories than me because usually I don't think that much when I watch these.

Tom: Well, let's begin with yours then.

Red: The plot speaks for itself for me because she got pregnant with the creature's child and she lived happily ever after.

Red: What's more is there to say?

Tom: So it's a very sweet ending then.

Red: Yes, it's straightforward and it's sweet.

Red: Even though I never watched it.

Tom: I like it.

Tom: Well, my theory is actually comes from you just emphasizing the green glow in the room.

Tom: That made me think that that may in fact have a important significance to it because this is a Japanese film, of course.

Tom: And I don't know if you've ever watched any Japanese media, but they are still, they still do think, and fair enough, often of the two nuclear bombings that they underwent.

Tom: So I was thinking this may be the entire thing about Japan's reaction to the nuclear bombings and the mutations that occurred there.

Red: So you are touching on a very sensitive topic, don't you know that?

Red: Who knows?

Tom: So I'm thinking that this creature, mystery creature, is in fact a result of radiation exposure and when the characters are first encountering it, they're frightened of it and want to reject it as a part of their past and history.

Tom: But as they think about it more and interact with it more, they see that it is perhaps something to be embraced and something that can become a positive part of their history and sense of themselves in some way.

Tom: So that's my theory on the…

Red: Damn, you thought a lot on this.

Tom: Maybe I'm the expert here after all.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: Oh god, well, wait, I'm dead thinking, if that creature is a product of radiation, would it harm the human?

Tom: Well I think that's what they were afraid of at first, but…

Red: It worked out.

Tom: It worked out okay in the end.

Red: Okay, I'll accept that theory, you know, it's fine, it's fine.

Red: But then again, I'm pretty sure that creature was something that the doctors at that hospital was experimenting on, for god knows what reasons.

Tom: That is quite possibly the case, but…

Red: Yeah, and the investigator happens to accidentally stumble upon it, and I believe the creature has probably fell in love at first sight at this very lovely investigator.

Tom: I think that we can come up with commentary on so many different layers of it, just shows you the depth of what we're dealing with.

Red: Despite it having a completely different reason on this, but we have gone into such deep lengths on theories for this.

Red: I mean, we could, you know, talk more about it, but we have another one, actually.

Tom: Before we move on from this one, will we give this a rating?

Red: For me, I'd say like a out of

Tom: So not bad at all.

Tom: Pretty good rating there.

Red: Yeah, not bad, I'd say.

Tom: Well, my rating system actually uses a dice, so I roll the dice.

Tom: It's a ten-sided dice, and whatever number I get is the rating I give.

Tom: So I will now roll the dice of Destiny.

Red: Very well.

Tom: And I give it a out of so a little bit lower than you.

Red: Look, Destiny says it's good, okay?

Tom: But even Random Chance gives it a positive rating, so it did very well.

Red: So shall we go on to the second one?

Tom: And let's indeed move on to the next.

Red: So basically, I asked Tom here to send me the links to our second video, which he actually sent more than one.

Tom: I think I sent four, and we watched two of them.

Tom: So maybe there will be an episode two with the other two.

Tom: If the listeners out there are excited for it, which I'm sure they are.

Red: Well, if it's supply and demand, I think...

Red: Yeah.

Red: So the second one, I...

Red: Oh wait, should we say the name?

Red: Because we have that link.

Red: We have the title of it.

Tom: Let's do it.

Tom: Let's name and shame, or name and glorify, depending on what we think of it.

Red: I hope you're going to glorify this title.

Tom: Also was the first one possibly called Investigated, Buried and Drowning Under Tentacles?

Red: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Red: That's exactly...

Tom: So we do have the name of the first one as well, luckily.

Red: Yeah, mind you, this is not family friendly.

Red: Not exactly family friendly, so please, please have a warning before entering the...

Red: before searching this.

Red: Yeah, and the second one that both of us watched is called Nurse Addicted to Tentacles Sex?

Tom: No, wasn't it?

Tom: I don't think so.

Tom: I think it was...

Red: Oh, wait, wait, wait.

Red: That was the first one.

Red: Oh, god damn it.

Tom: No, the first one was the Investigator.

Tom: That was another one that we haven't watched, I believe.

Tom: The second one...

Red: Was it Alan Under Wiggling Tentacles?

Tom: No, I think it is Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles.

Red: Oh, I just remembered, I didn't save that.

Red: Yeah, that was my bad.

Red: I did not paint that.

Tom: We got there in the end, though, so that's okay.

Red: Yeah, that's fine.

Red: Well, at least the listeners have two more extras.

Tom: For the next episode, they can watch them in advance and contribute their own thoughts in the comments below.

Red: Oh, that'll be interesting.

Red: All right, you heard it here, folks.

Tom: So what was the story of Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles?

Red: For this one, I actually understood some of what they said in the story, actually.

Red: And to me, I felt like this one had more plot, but Tom digressed.

Tom: I feel like it has less plot.

Red: I don't know.

Red: There was less action scenes.

Tom: I thought there were more.

Tom: I thought there were more action scenes in total.

Red: I don't know, technically, the time, the duration of the video was sort of the same.

Tom: Yeah, but I think the percentage of action scene time was less in the first one.

Tom: I think your impression may possibly be different of the first because you didn't watch the entirety of it.

Red: Well, basically, the first one was half an hour and a half just them doing it.

Tom: I think this was too, though.

Red: What more plot was there?

Tom: Well, it was a whole complicated story about a detective.

Tom: And then there was the whole love story subplot as well.

Tom: Whereas here, it's more just a pure love story, I would say.

Red: But there was a, I can't think of the word for adultery, I guess.

Red: You know what, I'm not trying to try to...

Tom: It is a love triangle, a love triangle.

Red: Oh.

Red: When you say it like that, okay, yeah.

Tom: A classic love triangle story.

Red: Yes, yes.

Red: Alright, so do you want me to explain the second one?

Tom: Please do.

Red: Alright, alright.

Red: Okay, it started off with a couple moving into a house where they, or where they were Oh, Jesus, I kind of forgot how we kind of started.

Red: Yeah.

Red: Basically, these two, this couple finally moved into their new house.

Red: And the setting was basically with all of their boxes that is in their living room.

Red: They haven't finished unboxing and the wife was having, was it breakfast?

Red: Yeah, yeah.

Red: Like breakfast with his, excuse me, with her husband.

Red: So they were talking about, oh, their life is going to be so great in this new house.

Red: And they were actually also planning on, you know, having a family and the wife was so happy about it.

Red: So the conversation went on for like a few minutes.

Tom: Very, very endearing, I would say.

Red: Yes, so she, after her breakfast, she sent her husband off to work, and she started cleaning her new house, which the cleaning scenes was sensual, I think.

Tom: It has a very interesting camera angles and points of focus.

Red: There were many interesting camera angles, like you said.

Red: I actually didn't tell you, I was watching this with my friend.

Tom: The friend should have joined us, we could have had another...

Red: Yeah, he was as confused as I was, because he never watched these things before.

Tom: So you were introducing a whole new world to her.

Red: Wait, what?

Tom: You were introducing a whole new world to her.

Red: Yes, a world that he never knew existed.

Red: Yeah, so basically both of both me and my friend was basically like in a confused state watching all these new angles.

Red: Just from this wife cleaning the bathroom, mopping the floor, and that was it.

Red: Yeah, so after cleaning, she was walking into the living room where there were plenty of boxes.

Red: But all of a sudden, again, with the iconic grabbing your ankle scene, she got grabbed, and she was pulled down.

Red: And thus the action started.

Red: For how long?

Red: I actually don't know.

Tom: I think the first one was a quite short interaction.

Red: Yeah, yeah, actually, they were quick on it.

Red: They were quick on it.

Red: They started, you know, maybe I want to explain in detail on what happened in that action scene.

Tom: There were a lot of fluids involved.

Red: Oh, yes.

Red: The second one had more fluids than the first.

Red: Oh dear, you actually reminded me of that.

Red: I completely forgotten about that.

Red: Yes, so they went on and they did it until the wife passed out actually.

Tom: I think she may have almost drowned considering the quantity of fluids spraying everywhere.

Red: Yeah, true, but let's just think of it as she passed out because she woke up after that.

Red: It was during the evening when she woke up and she was woken up by her husband who came back from work.

Red: And oddly enough, the husband did not question why her wife was passed out in the middle of the living room, oddly enough not covered in fluids.

Tom: I think they dried up.

Tom: That's my explanation.

Red: The floor was covered with it too.

Tom: Some liquids can dry and disappear pretty well.

Red: Completely.

Red: No stain whatsoever.

Tom: And her clothes were dry as well.

Red: And her clothes was on her as well.

Tom: Well, partly on her.

Tom: She was in a semi-disheveled state, I would say.

Red: But oddly enough, her husband did not question that.

Red: And or why was she passed out in the middle of the living room?

Tom: You would have thought, he might have thought, that she had had a stroke or something, and they probably should have sought medical attention at that stage.

Red: Yeah.

Red: But the husband was not at all worried.

Red: But the wife, of course, tried to, oh dear, the dog passed out fucking.

Tom: I think his reaction is actually the first sign that their relationship may not be as idyllic as it first appeared.

Red: But, you know, the husband, wait, the wife tried to explain her situation.

Red: She tried to explain to her husband, saying that she got assaulted by something, something that she can't explain.

Red: And of course, as normal human beings do, they decided to brush it off and said that, you know, she might have been hallucinating or something.

Tom: Again, a sign that he's not a very good husband, just dismissing his wife like that.

Red: After that scene, they, oh yeah, they had a passionate night together, the husband and wife.

Red: But during their actions, I feel bad, I feel weird for calling it action.

Red: But now, let's just go on with that.

Red: Yeah, while they were doing it, the wife wasn't feeling it as much because she was reminded of a very vigorous, vigorous moment with the mystical creature.

Tom: Vigorous and much moister experience.

Red: Yeah, so she was reminded of that, but she decided to just kind of brush it off.

Red: So after that, she went after their session, after their session, she decided to, she did ask her husband, I remember, she did ask her husband, don't you want to take a bath?

Red: But her husband was like, nah, I'll just do it in the morning or something.

Red: So she was, the question is, she said she wanted to take a bath, but she went down to the kitchen instead for a drink of water.

Red: And that confused me for a moment, but.

Tom: She was getting a drink on the way to the bathroom.

Tom: She was thirsty.

Red: Yeah, maybe.

Red: So she went, but while she was in her kitchen, pantry, I'd say, again, she was met with her beloved mystical creature.

Red: And that was another segment that we will not explain.

Red: Even during that scene, me and my friend was also quite confused, because first she was on the way.

Red: Wait, wait, wait.

Red: She was she was being choked.

Red: She was being choked.

Red: But she wasn't struggling.

Tom: I believe Chokin may have been a kink for her.

Red: Maybe.

Red: But maybe we won't get into that for now.

Red: So basically they had different positions in this segment.

Red: Oddly enough.

Tom: And even more liquid.

Red: Yeah.

Red: But she woke up.

Tom: Wait, I just realized, I just realized, this explains the bath confusion.

Tom: So she went down to, yep, she said she was going to have a bath, and she was indeed bathed by the mystical creature.

Red: Oh, God, that is, that, that's a whole different reason.

Red: That's a whole different context.

Red: You know what, never mind.

Red: Never mind.

Red: She knew she is, she knew what she wants, you know, that she was slowly beginning to develop feelings for this creature.

Red: So we shouldn't judge her.

Tom: I think it was pretty fast.

Tom: I think the relationship developed a lot quicker than in the other film.

Tom: So that pretty much brings us to the end of the first episode of Slime Under.

Tom: We both hope you enjoyed it.

Tom: And in the next episode, I will be returning with Red to discuss yet another episode in what may be a series.

Tom: I hope you enjoyed yourself, Red.

Red: Of course.

Red: It was, I was delayed.

Red: Excuse me.

Red: I was delighted to be here, truly.

Red: Ben, I'm gonna go first.

Red: Sorry, bye.

Game Under Podcast 137

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction

0:00:20 Hi

First Impressions - Both Hosts

0:00:55 Art of Rally - Switch and PC

0:01:55 Rally Car Racing

0:04:40 Phil copies Tom's Homework

0:06:15 Tom's Views

0:12:10 Kenya Dig It? (New Kenya DLC)

ASMR and Whiskey Update

0:17:20 Just for Keen Listeners

0:20:25 Sky News Update (the game, not the network)

First Impressions - Both Hosts

0:21:45 Hot Shot Racing & Comparitive Analysis of N64 and PS1/ Arcade Games

0:23:00 Top Gear Overdrive N64 Burros and Hotdogs

0:25:15 Hot Shot Racing

0:27:10 Speed Devils & Speed Busters

0:37:00 Need For Speed: Heat

0:43:00 Wipeout

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg

0:44:20 Jason Schreier's New Book Press Reset

0:47:45 The Atlantic, ACLU and The New Yorker walk into a Bar

First Impressions - Both Hosts

0:51:15 Back to Hot Shot Racing and Arcade Racing

Food Review - Tom Towers

0:53:00 ASMR Food Test - Vegan Fish (Phil is Disgusted)

1:01:45 Honkey Doree Gets a Coveted "Repeat Eat"

Trademark Banter

1:02:00 Giantbomb.com Cleans House with Bleach

1:05:20 Top Three Tourism Promoters

1:05:55 Not For Sale Anecdote

1:10:00 Jeff Gerstmann Animosity

1:15:10 No Clip

Final Thoughts - Tom Towers

1:22:45 Omno on PC

1:23:25 Tim Keenan

Off Topic

1:27:35 Twitter @gameunderphil

1:28:30 Say What You Will About Homefront

1:30:50 Back to Twitter

Final Thoughts - Tom Towers

1:34:30 The Last Stop

1:42:35 Gamespot as Internet Incubator

First Impressions - Tom Towers

1:50:35 The Ramp

Transcript

Phil: Hi, everyone, this is Phil Fogg.

Phil: Welcome to episode 137 of Australia's longest-running video game podcast, The Game Under Show, The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Ah, Tommy, you're still there, mate, after all those false starts.

Tom: Yes, I am, and I just assume that's gonna be the one long cold open.

Phil: Well, no, certainly none of the audience will get to hear any of that stuff.

Phil: Well, I might put it at the end of the show, but the important thing is we are recording Australia's longest-running video game podcast.

Phil: And I've got to admit that since the last recording, I've probably spent more time editing our podcasts than I have been playing video games, in at least new ones.

Phil: I've been mostly playing Yakuza Like a Dragon.

Phil: But today, actually, you turned me on to the fact that a game that you had reviewed some time ago, Art of Rally, is actually now being brought out on the Switch and PlayStation 4 and Xbox.

Phil: It previously was not on that platform. So I was able to download it and play a small part of it.

Tom: Well, it's finally had its console release after being previously only on PC.

01:24.420 --> 01:26.580

Phil: It's from the team called Funselektor.

01:27.260 --> 01:29.180

Phil: And I'm assuming that they're Finnish.

01:30.080 --> 01:31.020

Tom: I think so.

01:31.040 --> 01:32.840

Phil: I mean, the game does start.

01:33.480 --> 01:34.560

Tom: It is a rally game.

01:35.160 --> 01:35.500

Phil: Yeah.

01:35.620 --> 01:40.120

Phil: And did they invent, did Finland invent rally?

01:40.800 --> 01:41.340

Phil: The sport of rally?

01:41.360 --> 01:44.000

Tom: I don't think they invented it, but they mastered it.

01:44.300 --> 01:44.780

Phil: Okay.

01:45.180 --> 01:48.680

Tom: And they did invent some disciplines of it, at least.

01:48.920 --> 01:57.800

Phil: We should say the Art of Rally is a video game that's basically based on the motorsport of rally art or, I'm sorry, what do you call it?

01:57.980 --> 01:59.740

Phil: Rally car racing or?

01:59.760 --> 02:01.760

Tom: I think you call it rally racing.

02:01.880 --> 02:02.700

Phil: Rally racing.

02:02.940 --> 02:03.460

Phil: I don't know why.

02:03.480 --> 02:04.420

Tom: Or simply racing.

02:04.600 --> 02:06.200

Tom: I mean, oh sorry, or simply rally.

02:06.220 --> 02:07.460

Phil: Just rally, right?

02:07.620 --> 02:07.980

Tom: Yes.

02:08.140 --> 02:12.760

Tom: Or if it was an Olympic sport, it might be called sport rally.

02:13.020 --> 02:14.300

Phil: Or rally car racing.

02:15.440 --> 02:19.140

Phil: I don't know why everything I say today sounds ridiculous, but anyway, rally racing.

02:19.760 --> 02:21.460

Tom: So it's just like any other episode.

02:22.240 --> 02:31.800

Phil: Which is a really fascinating thing to watch on television, and it's been emulated in video game form for a long period of time.

02:31.820 --> 02:41.120

Phil: I believe one of our top 10 hardcore games of all time was one that you introduced that's in the genre.

02:41.260 --> 02:41.840

Phil: Isn't that right?

02:42.780 --> 02:43.580

Phil: One of your favorites?

02:44.880 --> 02:46.960

Tom: Oh, Richard Burns Rally, are you thinking of?

02:46.980 --> 02:48.180

Phil: Yeah, Richard Burns Rally.

02:48.200 --> 02:51.520

Phil: I mean, it's been a part of video gaming for quite a time.

02:53.420 --> 03:02.120

Phil: And then, of course, I've reviewed RC Pro-Am several times on the, well, I went through all of the RC Pro-Am games.

03:02.140 --> 03:05.920

Phil: Now, of course, that's remote control cars, so it's not really the same thing.

03:06.480 --> 03:13.720

Phil: But funnily enough, Art of Rally does have that same top-down perspective.

03:13.740 --> 03:15.360

Phil: It's not really isometric.

03:15.380 --> 03:20.000

Phil: It's just the camera's pulled way back as if you were following this from a helicopter.

03:20.780 --> 03:28.300

Phil: So you're not actually driving it in first person or just in third person behind the car like most racing cars, racing games.

03:29.440 --> 03:41.120

Phil: And the Art of Rally is kind of a two-for-one because it's describing the game's very unique and beautiful art style.

03:41.240 --> 03:47.260

Phil: It's no textures at all, at least in the way that you'd think of them traditionally.

03:48.540 --> 04:06.920

Phil: Everything is very flat, lots of flat modeling and very ambitious, I'd say, but also in terms of development, it lends focus on the physics of the game, which is obviously what the whole point of the game is.

04:07.060 --> 04:07.920

Phil: Is that right?

04:07.940 --> 04:10.020

Phil: Because I've only played it for like 20 minutes.

04:10.040 --> 04:14.900

Phil: You've obviously played it enough to write a review of it at gameunder.net.

04:15.920 --> 04:19.560

Tom: So I may only have played it for 20 minutes, is what you're saying as well.

04:23.020 --> 04:36.460

Phil: I think the primitive colours and impressionistic fidelity of the rally stages and vehicles are easy to harmonise with the dreamy and big goodies of the synthwave soundtrack.

04:36.980 --> 04:39.540

Tom: You're impressively eloquent there, I have to say.

04:40.260 --> 04:46.520

Phil: But also, you know, the anti-lag intake noises and exhaust note and squealing of...

04:46.540 --> 04:48.320

Tom: It complements the music wonderfully, doesn't it?

04:48.360 --> 04:48.960

Phil: It does.

04:50.720 --> 04:55.920

Phil: I mean, it easily finds its niche, you know, in the eclectic percussion.

04:55.940 --> 04:58.160

Tom: I'm blown away by your eloquence there.

04:58.180 --> 04:59.160

Tom: That was so wonderful.

04:59.180 --> 05:00.960

Tom: It was as if you were reading off a script.

05:01.980 --> 05:05.840

Phil: It's almost as if I'm reading a review off of a website.

05:07.160 --> 05:11.500

Phil: But, you know, I've got to say the world of Art of Rally, just from what I've seen, is indeed gorgeous.

05:14.520 --> 05:20.980

Phil: But what I want to know is, does the perspective of the...

05:21.040 --> 05:24.260

Phil: like, do you get to unlock stuff later on?

05:24.260 --> 05:27.060

Phil: Because it is quite basic to start with.

05:27.960 --> 05:31.620

Phil: And I don't feel like I'm even playing with a Tinker toy.

05:31.640 --> 05:32.820

Phil: It doesn't feel...

05:33.320 --> 05:35.140

Phil: other than that the...

05:35.180 --> 05:38.440

Phil: and honestly, I'm not reading your review anymore, but as you can tell.

05:39.840 --> 06:00.740

Phil: But other than the sound and the use of the vibration in the Switch, which I've got to say is exceptional, they've obviously used all the tools that are available for them on the Switch, in terms of using the vibration ability of the Switch controls or the Switch controller.

06:00.760 --> 06:08.820

Phil: Besides that, there's nothing really there to impress me so far.

06:09.980 --> 06:14.760

Phil: And I've got to think that that's only because over time, different things are going to be unlocked.

06:16.100 --> 06:28.140

Tom: Well, I think what you need to do is to alter the driving settings, because the default settings from what I can remember are extremely arcady.

06:29.280 --> 06:43.340

Tom: If you change that to most of the simulations, then it is a genuine simcade game, and that is where, other than the aesthetic of it, the main appeal lies.

06:44.300 --> 06:54.340

Phil: I think it's much like another game that we've both been playing that we'll be talking about later in the same genre, and that's Hot Shot Racing.

06:54.360 --> 06:55.900

Phil: I mean, it has a lot of similarity to it.

06:55.920 --> 07:02.520

Phil: Would you say that Hot Shot Racing is a simcade?

07:03.400 --> 07:04.320

Tom: No, I would not.

07:05.660 --> 07:06.620

Tom: I would certainly not.

07:06.640 --> 07:08.360

Phil: You're just going to say pure arcade.

07:09.020 --> 07:10.460

Tom: That is a pure arcade game.

07:11.740 --> 07:13.600

Tom: Which I believe was their intention.

07:14.100 --> 07:16.380

Tom: And I sincerely hope was their intention.

07:16.400 --> 07:17.620

Phil: We'll get to that later on.

07:18.000 --> 07:20.800

Phil: Okay, so it's not that I will unlock things.

07:20.820 --> 07:22.600

Phil: It's just a matter of the settings.

07:22.700 --> 07:25.880

Tom: Well, what you will unlock as you go along is cars and rallies.

07:28.140 --> 07:31.540

Tom: So you unlock more locations and more vehicles.

07:32.560 --> 07:34.280

Tom: You don't unlock more.

07:34.480 --> 07:35.260

Tom: Well, you do.

07:35.260 --> 07:36.400

Tom: You unlock free roam.

07:36.840 --> 07:37.700

Tom: So that's one thing.

07:37.720 --> 07:48.700

Tom: But the main appeal is not unlocking different gameplay modes, but unlocking the rallies as you go along in different places.

07:48.720 --> 07:52.220

Tom: So that's what the career mode consists of.

07:52.240 --> 07:56.600

Tom: Then the main appeal that results in a fair bit of depth to it.

07:57.140 --> 08:01.480

Tom: The campaign maybe takes 10 to 15 hours or so.

08:01.500 --> 08:06.280

Tom: I played it for 25 hours, I think, according to Steam.

08:06.280 --> 08:23.720

Tom: And the reason for that is the main appeal is, other than the aesthetic, the driving physics, which with the right sort of settings are actually very deep and it becomes really enjoyable to be trying to beat the times of other players.

08:24.440 --> 08:30.120

Phil: Yeah, so it's got basically stability assist, which controls the car's rotation.

08:30.880 --> 08:33.700

Phil: You can help tune oversteer and understeer.

08:34.120 --> 08:38.200

Phil: Countersteer factor, which is interesting.

08:38.540 --> 08:43.460

Phil: It's currently set at 160% with stability assist at 100.

08:44.260 --> 08:48.180

Phil: Anti-lock braking is at 50% by default.

08:49.100 --> 08:53.700

Phil: And transmission, you know, automatic or manual, the option.

08:53.720 --> 08:55.020

Phil: So did you play it manual?

08:55.420 --> 08:56.700

Tom: Is there traction control?

08:57.780 --> 08:59.820

Phil: Not under the gameplay settings, no.

09:00.680 --> 09:03.940

Tom: But to answer your question, I did indeed play in manual, of course.

09:04.000 --> 09:04.540

Phil: Okay.

09:05.080 --> 09:10.720

Tom: And I would have to check what the settings are, but I think stability management was off completely.

09:14.360 --> 09:27.980

Tom: Countersteer, I think I had that on to some degree, due to without playing with a wheel, obviously that is what straightens your wheels out when you stop steering, if I remember correctly.

09:28.380 --> 09:31.620

Tom: But I would need to check the fine details of what they are.

09:31.640 --> 09:39.600

Tom: But there would also be steam guides around that would be suggesting what the optimum settings were as well.

09:40.500 --> 09:47.620

Tom: And the other thing as you are going along though is, also bear in mind that the cars you begin with are extremely slow.

09:48.500 --> 09:53.580

Tom: But part of the appeal there is where they are from in rally history.

09:53.600 --> 09:55.520

Tom: So that is still enjoyable.

09:56.920 --> 10:03.420

Tom: And I have to ask you, where did you end up, what difficulty are you playing on and where did you end up in your first rally if you have completed it?

10:04.640 --> 10:15.460

Phil: Well, obviously I think in the first 20 minutes it is just open world play where you are going around collecting photo points and the words rally, not unlike in RC Pro Amp.

10:15.480 --> 10:16.820

Tom: That would be right, yep.

10:16.840 --> 10:20.720

Tom: So you have not actually started the game, essentially.

10:20.740 --> 10:21.020

Phil: No, no.

10:21.040 --> 10:22.080

Tom: That is the tutorial.

10:22.100 --> 10:23.900

Phil: No, I am just trueling around in the tutorial.

10:25.060 --> 10:27.480

Phil: Now, it does offer online support as well.

10:28.900 --> 10:36.500

Tom: The online support consists of not racing against other players, but time attack against them.

10:38.400 --> 10:42.520

Tom: So each rally stage will have a leaderboard for the fastest times on it.

10:43.220 --> 10:50.060

Tom: And then there are also online events, which is you, but not at the same time, rallying against other players.

10:52.140 --> 10:56.800

Tom: And I think that's the main online components of it, if I remember correctly.

10:57.320 --> 11:01.420

Tom: And once you get into it, the leaderboards were very enjoyable.

11:01.440 --> 11:05.460

Tom: I managed to get into...

11:05.660 --> 11:11.940

Tom: I think I got one stage top once, and I got into the top ten on quite a few occasions.

11:12.280 --> 11:15.520

Tom: But as time progressed, people got progressively better and better, of course.

11:15.540 --> 11:19.100

Tom: But I was still managing to keep up somewhat with the top 100.

11:19.500 --> 11:25.400

Tom: I returned to try out some of the Kenya update, which I will comment on in a moment.

11:25.480 --> 11:34.040

Tom: And horrifically, I came in two rallies, seventh against the highest AI difficulty and tenth in another one.

11:34.280 --> 11:39.760

Tom: So I have rather forgotten my skills in Art of Rally, unfortunately.

11:40.300 --> 11:43.920

Phil: Well, I've got to say, I just restarted it to check the camera options.

11:44.160 --> 11:46.980

Phil: And by default, they have it set at four.

11:47.000 --> 11:48.260

Phil: There are eight different...

11:48.460 --> 11:49.760

Tom: You can zoom in and out.

11:49.780 --> 11:50.260

Phil: Exactly.

11:50.360 --> 11:51.920

Phil: So I switched it over to two.

11:52.600 --> 11:54.380

Phil: And that's much more pleasing.

11:54.500 --> 11:56.500

Phil: And I'd probably zoom it in a little bit.

11:56.520 --> 11:59.520

Tom: It will not be once you start driving faster.

11:59.540 --> 11:59.920

Phil: Okay.

11:59.940 --> 12:02.480

Phil: Because you need to see the longer range.

12:02.500 --> 12:02.800

Tom: Correct.

12:02.820 --> 12:02.960

Phil: Yep.

12:03.560 --> 12:05.800

Phil: And yeah, I was just playing the Kenya mode.

12:05.820 --> 12:10.680

Phil: So you have downloaded the update and tried the Kenya mode?

12:11.140 --> 12:11.920

Tom: Yes, I have.

12:12.020 --> 12:12.840

Phil: The Kenya mode.

12:13.200 --> 12:14.080

Phil: The Kenya stage.

12:14.980 --> 12:16.160

Tom: Yes.

12:16.280 --> 12:20.080

Tom: It's a whole rally consisting of, I think, six stages.

12:20.100 --> 12:36.100

Tom: That may be wrong, but around that, it's like six or eight stages, and it also introduces, I think, four cars, three in Group B and one in Group 4, unless it's six cars, then it's five in Group B and one in Group 4.

12:37.380 --> 12:48.380

Tom: And I've driven a Group B car and a Group 4 car, and the Group B car, compared to many of the Group B cars, was very easy to control.

12:48.400 --> 12:54.840

Tom: So I have to try more of them, because part of the appeal of the Group B cars is the difficulty in controlling them.

12:55.460 --> 13:00.400

Tom: But the Group 4 car was suitably oversteery and difficult to control.

13:00.420 --> 13:19.080

Phil: I've got to say, if anyone has any concerns about the fidelity, the visual fidelity, or the frame rate, or anything like that on the Switch, because the Switch has less technical chops than pretty much every other platform that this game is available on, do not be concerned.

13:19.100 --> 13:19.900

Phil: It's wonderful.

13:21.480 --> 13:28.720

Phil: And, you know, probably the visual style of the game helps with that, but it just flows very nicely.

13:28.740 --> 13:31.500

Phil: It was a quick download, easy install.

13:32.460 --> 13:40.780

Phil: It's available on the store for 25 bucks in Australia, so I can't imagine that's the same in the US, but, you know, certainly a good value.

13:40.920 --> 13:42.160

Phil: You can see that it's deep.

13:44.640 --> 13:58.300

Phil: You can see that this is going to get a lot of playtime put into it, which is also perfect for the Switch because it lends itself to portable play and playing just before you go to bed and all that sort of thing.

13:58.360 --> 14:01.840

Phil: So in that sense, I'd recommend it.

14:03.380 --> 14:04.760

Tom: So it's a good first impression.

14:04.960 --> 14:05.820

Phil: Yeah, definitely.

14:05.900 --> 14:15.760

Phil: And these guys, I remember from your original review as well that FunSelector had made a similar game but set in an urban environment prior to this.

14:18.020 --> 14:25.900

Phil: Is that how you came to know them or was it you went back to that after you played this?

14:26.720 --> 14:28.140

Tom: That was Absolute Drift.

14:28.380 --> 14:28.700

Phil: Yep.

14:29.940 --> 14:33.080

Tom: And I played that before Art of Rally.

14:35.700 --> 14:37.920

Tom: Not too long after release, if I remember correctly.

14:39.540 --> 14:42.460

Tom: So I was highly anticipating Art of Rally.

14:43.320 --> 14:48.680

Tom: And Art of Rally is superior in pretty much all areas.

14:48.680 --> 15:08.540

Tom: So it is a tremendously impressive follow up to Absolute Drift, which was an extremely unique and enjoyable arcade racing game in which you were drifting the entire time and just trying to get the highest score.

15:09.140 --> 15:20.700

Tom: While it was a little bit more arcade than Art of Rally, there was enough to it that, again, that was extremely easy to get into, getting as high as possible on the leaderboards.

15:21.540 --> 15:26.020

Phil: Yeah, I'm just on their website now trying to figure out, you know, who they are and where they're from.

15:26.040 --> 15:28.340

Phil: They seem to be a fairly small team.

15:30.360 --> 15:39.400

Phil: There's a founder, vehicle and general artist, developer, developer, developer, sound like Bauma now, developer, producer, creative director.

15:39.420 --> 15:45.300

Phil: But, you know, it's like six or eight different people, which I'm sure if we checked out the credits, they'd all line up.

15:45.320 --> 15:57.780

Phil: Because it's kind of funny that, like, a small, maybe it's not funny at all, but, like, you know, they're like now a driving studio or something like that, you know, so it'd be interesting to see what their next step is going to be.

15:59.060 --> 16:02.680

Phil: But, yeah, you've got to appreciate what they've done here.

16:03.120 --> 16:03.920

Phil: Do you have...

16:03.940 --> 16:05.720

Tom: Do you find out if they were from Finland or...?

16:05.740 --> 16:08.120

Phil: Well, it's not very clear on their website where they're from.

16:09.700 --> 16:12.940

Phil: You know, there's a mention of New Zealand in there, so I feel terrible.

16:12.960 --> 16:22.300

Tom: I'm going to guess they're probably not from Finland, because two of the main people behind Art of Rally are Dune, Casu and Adrian Tassel.

16:26.400 --> 16:31.660

Phil: Is there anything else you want to say about this before we go on to the next topic or next game?

16:31.680 --> 16:57.160

Tom: Well, I must add that they may be a PC case, because in Googling or searching on Bing for Dune, Casu to try and find out his origin, the first result was for the Dune Pro Power to Choose case by dunecase.com, which is a PC case that's engineered for a range of industry standard parts.

16:58.100 --> 17:02.460

Phil: Well, that could explain perhaps the elemental art style.

17:02.860 --> 17:05.780

Phil: So you think this game was made by artificial intelligence?

17:06.500 --> 17:07.900

Tom: It may well have been.

17:08.780 --> 17:09.480

Phil: Interesting.

17:09.720 --> 17:11.400

Phil: They should have put that on the front of the box.

17:11.420 --> 17:13.620

Phil: They probably would have sold some more copies.

17:13.680 --> 17:21.820

Phil: Well, I'm sure that's selling well, because they're obviously porting it over to all these new platforms.

17:21.840 --> 17:25.920

Phil: So I understand that your ASMR session from last time has continued.

17:26.860 --> 17:28.520

Tom: Well, it's been going on in the background.

17:28.540 --> 17:29.740

Tom: So keen listeners...

17:30.380 --> 17:32.780

Phil: That's a reward for keen listeners, is it?

17:33.040 --> 17:33.400

Tom: Yes.

17:34.580 --> 17:35.200

Tom: That's right.

17:35.360 --> 17:38.240

Tom: Obviously there's nothing in the content for them to pay attention to.

17:39.500 --> 17:45.160

Phil: Keen listeners may recall that I drank whiskey on this show for the first time in my life.

17:46.000 --> 17:47.080

Tom: What are you drinking today?

17:51.080 --> 17:54.780

Phil: You may not remember, but my first impression of whiskey was not very good.

17:54.800 --> 17:57.760

Phil: In fact, I think I said it tasted like mothballs.

17:58.700 --> 17:59.300

Tom: Yes, you did.

17:59.520 --> 18:03.460

Phil: But then I went on and, you know, I'm not a big drinker of whiskey.

18:04.340 --> 18:09.500

Phil: But, you know, if I need a break from beer or whatever, I will try a different kind of whiskey.

18:09.520 --> 18:18.040

Phil: Today I'm trying Sheep Dog, which is whiskey with natural flavors, and it's peanut butter whiskey.

18:18.800 --> 18:20.340

Tom: So it's not sheep dog flavor.

18:20.360 --> 18:23.980

Phil: It doesn't taste or smell like a sheep dog, like most whiskey.

18:24.480 --> 18:25.500

Tom: What about lanolin?

18:26.180 --> 18:27.660

Phil: No, it doesn't smell like lanolin.

18:28.480 --> 18:30.720

Tom: So there's nothing sheepy about it at all.

18:30.780 --> 18:32.740

Phil: It's a product of the United States.

18:32.760 --> 18:39.380

Phil: I was going to say the United States of the United States, but it's a product of the USA, United States of the USA.

18:40.500 --> 18:41.840

Tom: Do they not have sheep there?

18:45.000 --> 18:48.960

Phil: I'm sure there are some sheep, but I haven't seen any over there.

18:48.980 --> 18:50.680

Tom: There are at least a lot of sheeple, I've heard.

18:50.700 --> 18:52.600

Phil: Oh, sheeple, there you go.

18:52.920 --> 18:54.780

Phil: Yeah, so this is peanut butter whiskey.

18:54.880 --> 18:58.140

Phil: So the obvious question is, does it taste like peanut butter?

18:59.080 --> 19:01.960

Phil: And yeah, a little bit.

19:01.980 --> 19:06.880

Phil: It tastes more like Kahlua, like a Kahlua, Kahlua kind of thing, really.

19:07.820 --> 19:09.780

Tom: Is it better or worse than the last one?

19:10.440 --> 19:17.320

Phil: It's better than the first whiskey I drank, which was Ballentine's, which was terrible.

19:18.100 --> 19:20.040

Phil: But yeah, it's okay.

19:20.060 --> 19:20.720

Phil: It's obviously not a...

19:21.380 --> 19:23.040

Phil: You're not drinking it because it's a whiskey.

19:23.060 --> 19:26.360

Phil: It really does just taste like one of those liqueurs, so...

19:27.220 --> 19:28.960

Tom: And Ballentine is in Yakuza.

19:28.980 --> 19:29.920

Tom: I don't think this one is.

19:30.260 --> 19:31.520

Phil: No, no, this is a...

19:32.440 --> 19:43.580

Phil: Even though it's from a real company in the US, it's, you know, whiskey drinkers would be equally appalled that I'm drinking this as they were when I described Ballentine's as tasting like mothballs.

19:44.240 --> 19:50.380

Phil: So, yeah, this is probably not one I'm gonna go back to, but it was too novel not to try.

19:50.400 --> 19:53.280

Tom: So you're just gonna leave it on the shelf with Ballentine's?

19:53.380 --> 19:55.820

Phil: No, I'll drink it all probably during this episode, so...

19:57.640 --> 19:58.680

Tom: And how big is the bottle?

19:59.260 --> 20:04.120

Phil: Let's see, it's got 19 standard drinks in it.

20:04.640 --> 20:06.620

Phil: So that's 700 milliliters.

20:08.680 --> 20:10.660

Phil: It's 35% alcohol by volume.

20:11.480 --> 20:14.140

Phil: So maybe that's all at the bottom of the bottle.

20:14.720 --> 20:15.820

Phil: We'll find out today.

20:15.840 --> 20:17.240

Tom: So you need to shake it up first.

20:17.260 --> 20:17.840

Tom: Yeah, shake it up.

20:18.580 --> 20:21.620

Tom: Pro tip when drinking whiskey, shake the bottle first.

20:22.920 --> 20:23.360

Phil: Exactly.

20:25.520 --> 20:30.140

Phil: So now, I haven't gotten very far with Sky.

20:30.840 --> 20:33.080

Tom: Well, I have successfully added you as a friend.

20:33.160 --> 20:33.460

Phil: Right.

20:34.260 --> 20:38.120

Tom: But you, I don't think you've been back onto it since then.

20:38.300 --> 20:39.640

Phil: I've tried to...

20:39.660 --> 20:42.880

Tom: Is that a coincidence or a deliberate attempt to avoid you?

20:42.900 --> 20:44.560

Phil: No, no, I've tried two or three times.

20:44.800 --> 20:49.520

Phil: I've played it two or three more times and tried to friend you, but I haven't seen you in there.

20:49.580 --> 20:52.000

Phil: So you don't have to be online for me to friend you.

20:52.020 --> 20:53.820

Phil: I just got to look up at the sky, right?

20:54.880 --> 20:56.420

Tom: And is there no one there?

20:57.040 --> 21:09.320

Phil: There's a bunch of people named Phil Fogg because when I was first playing the game and going up to people, when it put up the option for a name, I thought it was asking me for, you know, what's my name?

21:09.420 --> 21:11.000

Phil: So I'd say Phil Fogg.

21:11.020 --> 21:14.980

Phil: So now I've named all the people that I've met Phil Fogg.

21:15.680 --> 21:21.320

Phil: Apparently they allow duplicate entries in their database because all my friends are called Phil Fogg.

21:22.840 --> 21:24.120

Phil: I may have called you Phil Fogg.

21:24.140 --> 21:25.780

Phil: Maybe that's why I can't find you either.

21:26.560 --> 21:27.980

Tom: That's what I'm thinking may have happened.

21:28.220 --> 21:29.080

Phil: No, no, no.

21:29.120 --> 21:30.920

Phil: I haven't named anyone yet.

21:31.060 --> 21:35.740

Tom: So I think the only solution to this is to be online at the same time.

21:35.880 --> 21:36.860

Phil: OK, yes.

21:37.060 --> 21:39.440

Phil: Possibly with you talking to me, telling me what to do.

21:40.700 --> 21:41.280

Tom: Correct.

21:42.280 --> 21:44.480

Phil: OK, so what's the next game you want to talk about?

21:45.620 --> 22:05.600

Tom: Well, while we're on the topic of racing games, and you did bring up Hot Shot Racing, I recently, and by recently I mean several months ago, if not last year, was playing Horizon Chase Turbo Top Gear on the SNES and Need for Speed Heat.

22:06.400 --> 22:08.540

Tom: And more recently I have tried Hot Shot Racing.

22:08.840 --> 22:19.020

Tom: Now all of those games, except for Need for Speed Heat, are either in the old classic style of arcade racing or are copying it, are they not?

22:19.480 --> 22:20.440

Phil: What was the first one?

22:21.320 --> 22:24.380

Tom: Horizon Chase Turbo was one, another is Hot Shot Racing.

22:25.060 --> 22:30.380

Tom: And one that is not on the surface of it in that style that I played was Need for Speed Heat.

22:31.360 --> 22:34.500

Phil: Yeah, I think I'd say that that's true.

22:34.560 --> 22:57.020

Phil: Like when I'm playing, when I played Hot Shot Racing, and we've got to say this is a game developed by Sumo Digital who, their claim to fame was, well, they started out by doing OutRun 2006, which was the first OutRun game in several decades, or a couple of decades.

22:57.560 --> 23:03.380

Phil: And they've done masterful games like Sonic and Sega All Star Racing and others as well.

23:04.980 --> 23:09.000

Phil: And then the other developer, just to give them credit on this game, was Lucky Mountain Games.

23:09.000 --> 23:16.340

Phil: But when I was first playing it, this struck a chord with me of the N64 racing games.

23:16.360 --> 23:19.420

Phil: The N64 had lots and lots of arcade races.

23:20.800 --> 23:29.560

Phil: Most notably, at least in terms of its popularity, was the Cruzen series, Cruzen the USA, Cruzen the World, Cruzen Exotica.

23:30.540 --> 23:35.400

Phil: Top Gear was also a popular arcade racer.

23:37.040 --> 23:39.200

Tom: Was there a Nintendo 64 version of that?

23:39.480 --> 23:41.660

Phil: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:42.540 --> 23:47.100

Phil: There was two Top Gear games released on the N64, which were quite good.

23:49.560 --> 23:52.520

Phil: And it also had some rally games as well.

23:54.120 --> 23:55.980

Phil: But in terms of arcade races...

23:56.400 --> 23:58.640

Tom: Top Gear Overdrive and Top Gear Rally.

23:58.660 --> 24:01.580

Phil: Yes, I played Top Gear Overdrive a fair bit.

24:02.460 --> 24:05.780

Tom: I have also played that a lot in A Myers.

24:07.480 --> 24:10.260

Tom: And also, I think, Top Gear Rally as well.

24:10.980 --> 24:18.680

Phil: You could unlock a drivable hot dog and a burro as well.

24:18.700 --> 24:23.460

Phil: A burro that had four wheels on its hooves.

24:25.100 --> 24:29.340

Phil: And they had customizable horn sounds as well for those novelty cars.

24:31.000 --> 24:31.720

Phil: You might recall...

24:31.740 --> 24:34.220

Tom: And your cars did explode if you crashed as well.

24:34.460 --> 24:36.400

Phil: Well, of course, what else is a car going to do?

24:37.760 --> 24:40.500

Phil: But when I was playing this...

24:40.820 --> 24:45.300

Tom: And I also think there was a Hummer, which was a viable vehicle in a race.

24:45.360 --> 24:49.580

Phil: Yeah, the Rush series was also very big on the N64.

24:52.080 --> 24:54.680

Phil: Adventure Beetle Racing was another one.

24:56.440 --> 25:05.000

Phil: So when I played this, the fact that it is bringing up so much nostalgia is because obviously they referenced a lot of these games.

25:05.160 --> 25:08.160

Phil: And for you, you have a different field of reference.

25:08.180 --> 25:12.960

Phil: For me, this most closely reminded me of the Cruzen series.

25:14.640 --> 25:16.940

Phil: But we should probably say just a little bit about it.

25:17.200 --> 25:18.940

Phil: It is like Art of Rally.

25:19.140 --> 25:20.940

Tom: Are you referring to Hot Shot Racing here?

25:21.060 --> 25:21.780

Phil: Yeah, I'm sorry.

25:21.800 --> 25:22.200

Phil: Did you want to...

25:22.280 --> 25:27.240

Tom: That is certainly closer to Cruzen rather than Top Gear.

25:27.380 --> 25:27.900

Tom: That is right.

25:27.920 --> 25:28.100

Phil: Yes.

25:28.320 --> 25:28.640

Phil: Yeah.

25:28.720 --> 25:34.460

Tom: But Horizon Chase Turbo is much more in line with Top Gear.

25:35.560 --> 25:36.000

Phil: Okay.

25:36.100 --> 25:36.480

Phil: Okay.

25:36.540 --> 25:37.040

Phil: I get you.

25:40.260 --> 25:56.880

Phil: So I've been attracted to Hot Shot Racing from the second it was announced, not only because it was from Sumo Digital, which has done uniformly great driving games, but also because, you know, there hasn't been a lot of purely arcade games, driving games around.

25:57.640 --> 26:02.940

Phil: And it's playing on nostalgia, but it's also giving you an outlet to play a type of game that doesn't really exist anymore.

26:04.360 --> 26:13.420

Phil: And to me, it reminded me of the Doom demakes, such as last year, my Game of the Year.

26:13.440 --> 26:14.120

Phil: What was it called?

26:15.100 --> 26:15.660

Tom: What was it?

26:15.680 --> 26:16.560

Phil: I played it on Switch.

26:16.700 --> 26:18.640

Phil: It was the Doom demake that you recommended.

26:19.980 --> 26:21.620

Tom: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

26:22.120 --> 26:22.940

Tom: Project Warlock.

26:22.960 --> 26:24.360

Phil: Project Warlock, exactly.

26:24.360 --> 26:28.160

Phil: So this to me is like a Project Warlock for arcade racers.

26:30.220 --> 26:41.720

Phil: And again, no texture, just like the Art of Rally, which has to contribute to its, you know, really great frame rate and speed.

26:43.580 --> 26:48.600

Phil: And obviously, drifting is a big part of it, which wasn't a part of the Cruis'n series.

26:49.520 --> 26:53.140

Tom: And it runs, however, on PC, not very well.

26:53.400 --> 26:53.900

Phil: Oh, really?

26:54.180 --> 26:54.660

Tom: Correct.

26:54.680 --> 27:09.520

Tom: There are, and this is a problem a lot of people have had, occasional inexplicable moments of slowdown, which are certainly not being caused due to the rendering power required.

27:10.340 --> 27:20.020

Phil: Another game that this reminded me of was a game that you probably never played called Speed Devils, which was a Ubisoft game released on the Dreamcast.

27:21.660 --> 27:24.180

Phil: It was outstanding as an arcade racer.

27:24.300 --> 27:30.020

Phil: And the thing that it most reminds me of in this game is the levels.

27:30.580 --> 27:33.860

Phil: The levels are all in these, you know, exotic locations.

27:34.560 --> 27:41.920

Phil: I've got to say Daytona USA on the Saturn is obviously another great reference for this game.

27:43.440 --> 27:46.080

Phil: But enough waxing nostalgic.

27:46.100 --> 27:46.780

Phil: Does it work?

27:46.800 --> 27:48.980

Phil: Does it work as a game?

27:50.580 --> 27:56.500

Phil: Since it came out, I think it's pretty transparent that they're trying to turn this into a service game.

27:57.000 --> 28:03.860

Phil: You know, a game that will never end in the same category as Rocket League.

28:03.860 --> 28:10.060

Phil: It's very clear that they're trying to make this into an online game that's going to have a following.

28:10.080 --> 28:13.440

Phil: And I've got to say, they've added additional modes since it first started.

28:14.240 --> 28:20.340

Phil: The one thing that they haven't appeared to add, and you've played more of this than me, is the car models.

28:20.680 --> 28:25.280

Phil: It appears to be the same original seven or eight characters.

28:25.960 --> 28:28.600

Phil: Have they added any additional cars since the beginning?

28:28.620 --> 28:33.360

Phil: Because I think you start out with an option of four different cars per personality.

28:34.460 --> 28:35.080

Tom: And I think there are...

28:35.200 --> 28:37.560

Tom: Is it four or are there more personalities?

28:37.620 --> 28:38.040

Tom: Well, you...

28:39.080 --> 28:40.900

Phil: More personalities is like eight of them.

28:41.120 --> 28:48.240

Tom: Yeah, so four times eight is a reasonable amount of cars for an arcade game, I would say.

28:48.260 --> 28:52.340

Tom: And it is in fact possible that you have played it more than I have.

28:53.500 --> 29:02.540

Tom: And just for the record, while I have not played Speed Devils, I have played the original Speed Busters that Speed Devils was a port of.

29:04.480 --> 29:04.780

Tom: Yes.

29:04.900 --> 29:06.660

Phil: So did you like that or?

29:08.540 --> 29:14.020

Tom: It was, I have only played it very briefly because when I bought it, it would not run on my PC.

29:14.600 --> 29:33.900

Tom: But I've played it via GOG and still it is, as you described with the locations in the Dreamcast version, I believe they're pretty much the same, very visually appealing in terms of the tracks and cars and the general visual style.

29:33.920 --> 29:45.120

Phil: Yeah, there was a, it was on the Dreamcast and it was one of the games, one of the first games that had multiple different ways to get through the courses.

29:45.780 --> 29:49.000

Phil: There was lots of shortcuts and they were all thematic.

29:49.180 --> 29:59.320

Phil: So, you know, if you're in, they had one that was set in LA that basically drove you through all the major, you know, landmarks of Los Angeles.

29:59.500 --> 30:01.940

Phil: They had one in Mexico that was really great.

30:02.180 --> 30:08.200

Phil: The Mexico one was on a dirt track, I remember, and had completely different physics.

30:08.220 --> 30:13.440

Phil: And, you know, a lot of the great things about these old arcade races was the music and the voice samples.

30:14.000 --> 30:17.620

Phil: And that's something that's been brought over to Hot Shot Racing as well.

30:17.640 --> 30:22.160

Phil: These ridiculous voice samples that come up throughout the game.

30:22.180 --> 30:39.500

Phil: I remember that in Cruisin the World in the Australia level, when kangaroos were running onto the track or jumping around and going on the track, they actually had the sound effect of boing.

30:40.040 --> 30:49.500

Phil: So as the kangaroos moved, they'd go boing, boing, boing, which is something that I still do whenever I see a kangaroo.

30:50.440 --> 30:57.420

Phil: So I'm obviously still not a real Australian, and that's something I've been able to pass on to family members as well, that picked up that thing.

30:58.780 --> 31:09.140

Tom: And for once, the addition of Australian native animals to an Australian setting is accurate, as kangaroos are a regular feature at Bathurst.

31:10.320 --> 31:10.700

Phil: Are they?

31:10.920 --> 31:11.640

Phil: I did not know that.

31:13.880 --> 31:17.740

Phil: This game, like tell me, are all the upgrades cosmetic?

31:19.200 --> 31:20.240

Tom: Well, here's the thing.

31:21.480 --> 31:23.180

Tom: I've played very little of this game.

31:23.200 --> 31:27.000

Tom: This was in fact a comparative analysis between these several games.

31:27.020 --> 31:31.000

Tom: It was the direction this was going in, but we're taking it in another direction again.

31:31.020 --> 31:33.060

Tom: No, we will end up...

31:33.300 --> 31:36.900

Tom: We're taking another brief moment just to appreciate Speedbusters here.

31:38.760 --> 31:40.240

Tom: Slash Speed Devils.

31:40.260 --> 31:51.420

Tom: And I don't know if this was also in Speed Devils, but Speedbusters has one of the greatest live action video game intros of all time.

31:51.440 --> 32:01.920

Tom: Anyone who has not seen that, just look up Speedbusters intro on YouTube and prepare yourself for an entertaining ride.

32:02.140 --> 32:09.840

Phil: I tell you what, I'll just make a note to embed that into our front page for this show.

32:09.860 --> 32:15.560

Tom: Unfortunately, it looks like Speed Devils does not have the same framing or intro.

32:16.260 --> 32:19.200

Phil: No, there's no intro like that, just great music.

32:20.660 --> 32:41.320

Phil: So, you know, I feel terrible because we've spent most of this time just talking about the great games that this game references, but like the big selling point for this game is nostalgia and tapping into what people liked about those old games and basically bring them into the new generation.

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Phil: And I think on that level, it completely succeeds.

32:44.800 --> 32:46.140

Phil: I find myself...

32:46.160 --> 32:53.200

Tom: And you missed one clear reference, which is in the visual aesthetic, and that is to Interstate 76.

32:53.220 --> 32:54.180

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah.

32:55.160 --> 32:55.740

Phil: Again, we...

32:56.260 --> 32:59.920

Tom: Not just in the visual aesthetic, but also the character design as well.

33:00.600 --> 33:01.340

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

33:01.360 --> 33:03.060

Phil: And I'd say if you were looking at...

33:03.560 --> 33:06.960

Phil: Like, if you wanted to look at it, if you were to say, okay, what's this game look like?

33:07.300 --> 33:09.760

Phil: I think Daytona USA would be the first reference.

33:09.780 --> 33:15.700

Phil: It just looks like those Saturn games from Sega, like Virtua Fighter and Virtua Cop.

33:16.840 --> 33:21.780

Phil: Obviously, it's much higher fidelity and detail than those, but that's what they evoke.

33:22.520 --> 33:27.100

Tom: I wouldn't say it's higher fidelity than Daytona USA.

33:27.580 --> 33:29.400

Phil: This is, absolutely, yeah.

33:29.700 --> 33:30.540

Tom: I would not say that.

33:30.540 --> 33:31.960

Tom: It's certainly higher detail.

33:32.080 --> 33:32.500

Phil: Okay.

33:34.100 --> 33:36.080

Phil: I'd have to probably do a side by side.

33:37.340 --> 33:40.320

Tom: And arguably, it is not higher detail.

33:40.340 --> 33:45.220

Tom: It depends, certainly not compared to the actual arcade version of Daytona USA.

33:45.900 --> 33:49.280

Phil: Yeah, well, I only ever played the Saturn version, so...

33:49.720 --> 33:50.100

Tom: Okay.

33:50.200 --> 33:51.160

Phil: Yeah, you've got me on that one.

33:53.480 --> 33:55.720

Phil: I think it's a positive game, though.

33:55.740 --> 33:57.640

Phil: I think that I enjoy it.

33:57.660 --> 34:03.060

Phil: It's one of those games where if I'm on Steam and I see it sitting there, I will invariably play it.

34:04.240 --> 34:06.660

Phil: It is an easy game to get in and out of.

34:07.880 --> 34:18.260

Phil: And I think it succeeds, mostly because of its intelligent, you know, taking from other games of the genre and also just tapping into the experience that...

34:20.660 --> 34:25.420

Phil: the experience of the developers in this category.

34:25.480 --> 34:32.820

Phil: I mean, Sumo Digital has never made a bad racing game and certainly they've continued that with this one.

34:33.440 --> 34:34.320

Phil: Did you want to get back to...

34:34.340 --> 34:34.800

Tom: I would agree.

34:34.820 --> 34:37.280

Phil: Did you want to get back to your comparative analysis on this or...

34:37.300 --> 34:37.640

Tom: Yes.

34:38.000 --> 34:38.640

Tom: Yes, I do.

34:39.440 --> 34:49.380

Tom: So you said that it is a racing game in the style of racing games that do not really exist anymore, like, for instance, Project Warlock is to first-person shooters.

34:51.420 --> 34:54.440

Tom: And here is where actually I would disagree entirely.

34:54.940 --> 35:11.440

Tom: This was the interesting thing I noticed playing these games deliberately made in the style of a classic racing game, not too far apart from playing Need for Speed Heat, which is the latest Need for Speed.

35:11.980 --> 35:25.660

Tom: And Need for Speed Heat, in terms of the driving model, is actually very close to the likes of Horizon Chase Turbo and Hot Shot Racing.

35:26.060 --> 35:55.840

Tom: It is, I wouldn't even say more detailed than either of those, but essentially the way the racing works, even if you are not playing as a drift car, drift driving style, sorry, unlike in a slightly more simcade style of racing where there is some semblance of momentum and having to slow down a moving object before turning and that sort of thing.

35:56.620 --> 36:23.420

Tom: Here it is much more in the vein of Mario Kart, for instance, where it is not so much about accelerating a physical object, then slowing it down to be able to turn, then accelerating again, but moving through an environment where to turn, you get friction not through slowing down, but by grabbing hold of the ground and turning that way.

36:23.440 --> 36:44.360

Tom: So as you are going along, it is all about timing where you brake in the corner based on how sharp you want to turn, as opposed to how straight you want to keep your car going without losing as little speed as possible.

36:44.860 --> 36:52.480

Tom: So it's essentially the reverse way in which one approaches a more realistic racing game.

36:53.000 --> 37:18.060

Tom: And it is, other than visually, and the fact that the track is wider than Horizon Chase Turbo on top gear, and that it is a little bit slower than Hot Shot Racing and the difference between the speed of acceleration and slowing down is not as extreme as in Hot Shot Racing as well.

37:18.460 --> 37:23.820

Tom: It fits perfectly into the same category as those games.

37:23.920 --> 37:40.000

Tom: And I would argue, I think, captures better the feeling of a Nintendo 64 racing game in the vein of Cruis'n USA or even the SNES Top Gear.

37:40.360 --> 37:48.280

Tom: And the only other difference is that there is not the checkpoints with a timer counting down.

37:49.220 --> 37:58.300

Tom: However, depending on what the AI level is, there's nevertheless the same degree of pressure to be always having to be consistently fast.

38:00.500 --> 38:13.240

Tom: So I thought it was interesting that there is simultaneously this market for nostalgia, which presents itself as giving you an experience that you cannot get in modern racing games.

38:13.620 --> 38:24.140

Tom: But in modern racing games, for instance Need for Speed Heat, actually the gameplay has changed very, very little since the SNES.

38:25.820 --> 38:34.500

Phil: I've got to say, I've been like, I think a lot of people have probably not touched the Need for Speed series for a while.

38:34.760 --> 38:38.680

Phil: I have my favorite entries in it, which I'll talk about in just a moment.

38:39.380 --> 38:45.320

Phil: But I'm watching video of this, and pardon my French, but this looks fucking awesome.

38:45.540 --> 38:46.420

Phil: This looks great.

38:46.780 --> 38:49.020

Phil: So this is the 2019 Need for Speed.

38:49.040 --> 38:50.500

Phil: Yes.

38:51.220 --> 38:51.760

Phil: It looks great.

38:52.600 --> 38:53.600

Phil: This looks really good.

38:54.760 --> 38:59.980

Tom: It was surprising to me at how enjoyable it was because it is so arcade-y.

39:00.560 --> 39:19.040

Tom: And again, it's like a throwback to even older racing games because arcade racing games have changed over the years, but they've changed in the sense that new versions of them have appeared rather than old ones disappearing.

39:19.240 --> 39:40.900

Tom: That would be how I would read the arcade game market over the years, as opposed to something like first-person shooters where old styles of gameplay did indeed disappear and were completely replaced rather than different styles complementing old-school style first-person shooters.

39:41.300 --> 39:43.440

Tom: But so it is a throwback.

39:44.460 --> 40:02.480

Tom: The problem with Need for Speed is it markets itself as a throwback to Need for Speed, like Hot Pursuit or Need for Speed Underground and those sorts of ones, which are of the generation of racing games after Cruising USA.

40:03.140 --> 40:18.120

Tom: And that era, while there were still games in the very old style, had more elements of momentum in them and usually, I would say, less arcadey feeling tracks.

40:19.280 --> 40:28.520

Tom: Whereas this is not at all like Underground or like those Need for Speeds or Burnout, that sort of era.

40:28.900 --> 40:33.020

Tom: So I think that's where the problem for Need for Speed is.

40:33.360 --> 40:44.320

Tom: I also don't think you could really market Need for Speed as being a racing game in the style of games as old as Top Gear or Cruisin.

40:44.860 --> 40:59.040

Tom: Because the Need for Speed people think of came after that and was actually innovating on those games and building new forms of arcade racing.

40:59.460 --> 41:00.700

Phil: I got a couple of funny things here.

41:00.720 --> 41:06.820

Phil: But first of all, we're talking about Need for Speed Heat, which was released on Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

41:07.120 --> 41:14.880

Phil: When you go to the wiki page for it, the plot section says, This article's plot summary may be too long or excessively detailed.

41:14.900 --> 41:19.420

Phil: Please help improve it by removing unnecessary details and making it more concise.

41:20.620 --> 41:24.780

Phil: Which sounds like my review of Driver San Francisco.

41:26.640 --> 41:27.600

Phil: Which was amazing.

41:27.620 --> 41:29.640

Phil: The story and that was one of the best parts about it.

41:30.700 --> 41:33.440

Tom: It also sounds like the actual plot in the game as well.

41:35.520 --> 41:36.160

Phil: That's great.

41:36.260 --> 41:38.540

Phil: Actually, you know, that'd be great for a review, wouldn't it?

41:38.560 --> 41:43.360

Phil: Now, in terms of how it was reviewed, IGN gave it the highest score of eight.

41:43.380 --> 41:44.640

Phil: Everyone else gave it a seven.

41:45.520 --> 41:46.300

Phil: Seven and a half.

41:46.320 --> 41:48.600

Phil: And that's where it is on Metacritic as well.

41:50.140 --> 41:57.240

Phil: Another interesting note about it, as I was reading here, is that it was the last Need for Speed game made by Ghost Games.

41:57.780 --> 42:04.260

Phil: And they'd been, yeah, they'd been closely tied to the franchise for some time.

42:06.560 --> 42:15.140

Phil: And they've given Need for Speed back to Criterion, which was, you know, there's no one obviously still at Criterion that made Burnout, but I'm sure there's someone is.

42:16.180 --> 42:28.500

Phil: But they made two of my favorite Need for Speeds recently, which was Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2010, which was outstanding, and Need for Speed Most Wanted in 2012.

42:28.880 --> 42:30.380

Phil: Those were, you know, my favorites.

42:33.480 --> 42:36.080

Phil: And the closest to the original Burnout games.

42:36.500 --> 42:38.080

Phil: I thought they were absolutely great.

42:39.020 --> 42:42.200

Phil: So not only did they kick Ghost Games off of the franchise.

42:43.000 --> 43:10.380

Tom: That just reminds me though, one last interesting thing on the evolution of racing games is the Burnout era of arcade racing followed on from Wipeout, where it became about maintaining as much momentum and speed as he could rather than any sort of slowing down for corners to be able to turn at a certain degree.

43:10.400 --> 43:14.540

Phil: You're talking about Wipeout, the video game, not the TV game show.

43:14.920 --> 43:15.520

Tom: Correct.

43:15.540 --> 43:22.200

Phil: Because it also applies to that, which is keeping your momentum, not slowing down, is the key, especially on the punching wall.

43:22.600 --> 43:23.340

Phil: You know the wall...

43:23.360 --> 43:24.460

Tom: You know from experience.

43:24.480 --> 43:25.140

Phil: Well, you know the wall.

43:25.160 --> 43:26.860

Phil: It's got the punching things that come out of it.

43:26.960 --> 43:27.400

Tom: Yes.

43:27.420 --> 43:28.200

Phil: They fall into the mud.

43:28.220 --> 43:29.800

Phil: The key there is either to take...

43:30.000 --> 43:31.000

Phil: Just take a...

43:31.400 --> 43:34.840

Phil: I don't know why people don't go straight into the mud and just run across the mud.

43:35.180 --> 43:42.500

Phil: But if you are going to take the high road and keep out of the mud, so to speak, basically go as fast as you can and keep your momentum.

43:42.560 --> 43:44.860

Phil: And that's true on the big balls as well.

43:46.080 --> 43:47.460

Phil: You know, you've just got to keep going.

43:49.400 --> 44:00.080

Phil: But back to my point, not only did they take them off the franchise, they reduced Ghost Games to an engineering studio for the Frostbite engine.

44:00.100 --> 44:03.340

Phil: I mean, if that's not enough, they took their name off them.

44:05.000 --> 44:09.980

Phil: They took Ghost Games' name off them and called them back to their original name EA Gothenburg.

44:11.740 --> 44:13.360

Phil: That's not nice.

44:13.960 --> 44:15.260

Phil: That's not a very nice thing to do.

44:15.280 --> 44:18.160

Tom: Well, it is EA, so...

44:18.180 --> 44:18.980

Phil: Well, it is EA.

44:19.660 --> 44:21.100

Tom: They may have got off lucky there.

44:22.160 --> 44:26.960

Phil: I've talked to you and our listeners before about Jason Schreier's book.

44:27.260 --> 44:30.200

Phil: I think it's called Sweat, Blood and Pixels, which is a really...

44:30.220 --> 44:33.080

Tom: I thought it was called Stay Out of the Mud and Take the High Road.

44:33.120 --> 44:36.020

Phil: Stay Out of the Mud and Take the High Road.

44:36.040 --> 44:37.560

Phil: Sweat, Blood and Pixels.

44:37.580 --> 44:41.760

Phil: I just finished reading the sequel to that, which I thoroughly recommend.

44:42.660 --> 44:47.080

Phil: If you listen to this podcast, you're probably going to be interested enough to read that book as well.

44:47.800 --> 44:56.240

Phil: It also talks about the foibles of game development, but most notably the downfalls of it as well.

44:56.340 --> 44:58.320

Phil: It's still an interesting read.

44:59.000 --> 45:04.320

Phil: What I particularly did not enjoy about it is that the last chapter turns into a complete editorial.

45:04.700 --> 45:12.920

Phil: So it goes from basically straight reportage to the last chapter switching to it.

45:13.120 --> 45:17.720

Phil: Here's how we should fix the whole video game industry.

45:17.980 --> 45:19.160

Phil: We need to unionize.

45:19.580 --> 45:20.540

Phil: We need to do this.

45:20.560 --> 45:21.280

Phil: We need to do that.

45:21.500 --> 45:23.040

Phil: It's like, what are you doing?

45:23.540 --> 45:24.400

Phil: What are you doing?

45:24.800 --> 45:26.540

Phil: I mean, you're a writer.

45:27.480 --> 45:29.060

Phil: That can't work, right?

45:29.520 --> 45:41.000

Phil: Or could this conglomeration actually be a good form of writing, where you go straight from direct reportage into editorial?

45:41.440 --> 45:41.940

Phil: I don't know.

45:42.260 --> 45:44.160

Phil: I did not appreciate it at all.

45:44.420 --> 45:45.440

Phil: I thought it was weird.

45:45.740 --> 45:48.600

Tom: It certainly could be if you're not Jason Schreier.

45:48.920 --> 45:49.280

Phil: Yeah.

45:49.680 --> 45:50.080

Phil: I think...

45:50.100 --> 45:52.840

Tom: I think that is the main issue there.

45:52.920 --> 45:54.480

Phil: If you had it as a...

45:55.300 --> 45:59.640

Tom: And I cannot imagine reading a Jason Schreier book, I have to say.

45:59.940 --> 46:02.880

Phil: It's got a lot of juicy details in it.

46:02.900 --> 46:03.740

Phil: That's why I read it.

46:04.640 --> 46:09.360

Tom: Well, I'm sure it has a lot of details in it, but the question is how many of them are juicy.

46:11.220 --> 46:12.680

Phil: What's the opposite of an epilogue?

46:13.220 --> 46:13.780

Phil: Prologue.

46:15.580 --> 46:15.920

Tom: Yes.

46:16.200 --> 46:18.880

Tom: I'm not sure we would call it the opposite of one.

46:20.340 --> 46:22.480

Phil: It is the opposite.

46:23.220 --> 46:24.180

Phil: I think if it...

46:24.760 --> 46:27.980

Tom: Or would the opposite of an epilogue be having nothing at the end?

46:29.280 --> 46:30.760

Tom: That's what you have to wonder, you see.

46:30.780 --> 46:36.740

Phil: I think if he had just included it as that, like, OK, the book's over, now here's what I've got to say.

46:38.080 --> 46:39.680

Phil: I would have appreciated that a lot more.

46:41.680 --> 46:45.440

Tom: I'm just saying that's exactly what I would have expected from Jason Schreier.

46:46.360 --> 46:48.480

Tom: Not the content of it, just the...

46:50.640 --> 46:51.900

Tom: Again, this could...

46:52.020 --> 47:02.840

Tom: This can work if the person is a good writer, but random obnoxious structure is basically Jason Schreier's entire schtick.

47:03.820 --> 47:04.920

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

47:04.980 --> 47:12.560

Tom: I give him full credit for his content, but the way he presents it is just totally unreadable.

47:14.300 --> 47:19.260

Phil: I think, too, at this point, he's become bigger...

47:19.280 --> 47:20.600

Phil: He is Jason Schreier.

47:20.740 --> 47:31.040

Phil: So if you've got dirt on a developer, or you want to get a message out, he's the one that you go to, so it's kind of become a self-perpetuating...

47:32.240 --> 47:35.960

Tom: I just have to ask you, though, because you have mentioned...

47:35.980 --> 47:53.260

Tom: I don't know if it's on the podcast, I don't know if this has been brought up on the podcast, but you have told me numerous times in the past, so I assume that this has some sort of significance, if anyone is familiar with American culture, but you have told me that you have read The Atlantic on various occasions.

47:54.180 --> 47:56.600

Tom: Yes, as opposed to The New York Times.

48:00.240 --> 48:05.740

Phil: The Atlantic is now owned by Steve Jobs' wife.

48:05.760 --> 48:15.260

Phil: I can't vouch for it, because I used to be a subscriber and get the monthly magazine.

48:15.700 --> 48:16.660

Phil: It was wonderful.

48:17.940 --> 48:25.420

Phil: It had a good investigative journalist type thing, but also had some good fiction and short stories in it as well.

48:27.420 --> 48:31.320

Phil: I thought it was a good place to promote writing.

48:32.640 --> 48:33.940

Phil: I can't speak to it now.

48:34.200 --> 48:35.120

Phil: The New Yorker...

48:36.540 --> 48:38.580

Phil: I never really got what the New Yorker was.

48:40.520 --> 48:43.220

Phil: I don't think I could draw a comparison between the two.

48:44.040 --> 48:47.140

Tom: I think it's meant to be the same thing, just for different sensibilities.

48:47.580 --> 48:48.400

Phil: Yeah, maybe.

48:48.500 --> 48:48.960

Phil: I don't know.

48:49.180 --> 48:50.060

Phil: Anyway, wait.

48:50.100 --> 48:50.700

Phil: What's your point?

48:51.700 --> 49:05.520

Tom: My point is here, that Jason Schreier's writing is pure Atlantic essay style, including their investigative journalism.

49:05.860 --> 49:25.240

Tom: And it's actually a pretty common thing in American journalism that I've read anyway, where you will have a long, bloated investigation being reported that ends with an editorial telling you how to fix all of these problems that you discovered.

49:25.260 --> 49:27.220

Phil: Yeah, like Upton Sinclair, for example.

49:27.360 --> 49:31.260

Phil: So maybe it's the rich history of North East journalism.

49:31.260 --> 49:40.840

Tom: But see, the problem is simply Jason Schreier, is what I'm trying to get at here, is that it is obnoxious and jarring due to his writing ability.

49:41.120 --> 49:42.440

Phil: Okay, fair enough.

49:42.500 --> 49:42.820

Tom: Yes.

49:42.960 --> 49:46.760

Phil: But I think that the issue he has is he's a one trick pony.

49:48.500 --> 49:50.160

Phil: It's with one note at this point.

49:51.540 --> 50:10.940

Phil: And with The Atlantic, certainly it got to that way at times, where it was just basically like the ACLU, which I'm a big supporter of the ACLU, which American Civil Liberties Union, basically they fight for crazies on both extremes.

50:10.960 --> 50:12.140

Tom: Have they unionized?

50:13.900 --> 50:14.740

Phil: I don't think so.

50:15.260 --> 50:16.300

Tom: They are called a union.

50:17.300 --> 50:20.980

Phil: The name of the book is Press Reset, I should say.

50:21.800 --> 50:29.940

Phil: And I think that if you want to get some juicy, you know, insights into some major games and their development.

50:29.960 --> 50:41.660

Tom: I also believe that that was what PewDiePie was going to donate to after one of his anti-Semitic comments, until someone pointed out that they defend people against anti-Semitism, I think.

50:41.680 --> 50:43.020

Phil: Oh, and then he didn't?

50:43.920 --> 50:44.460

Tom: That's right.

50:44.480 --> 50:47.880

Phil: Okay, American Civil Liberties Union, aclu.org.

50:47.900 --> 50:48.460

Phil: Check them out.

50:48.480 --> 50:49.460

Phil: Make your own decision.

50:50.560 --> 50:53.340

Phil: Now, I don't know how we got on to Jason Schreier.

50:53.740 --> 50:54.720

Tom: Do your own research.

50:54.920 --> 50:57.380

Phil: Do your own research.

50:57.800 --> 50:59.000

Phil: I don't know how we got on to that.

50:59.020 --> 51:10.580

Phil: We were talking about Need for Speed Heat and also then talking about how my favorite Need for Speeds had been made by the criterion named Studio, Hot Pursuit and Most Wanted.

51:11.360 --> 51:15.600

Phil: But if you could please continue with your comparative analysis and how this all applied.

51:15.620 --> 51:48.340

Tom: I think that was probably the end of the comparative analysis, just simply that it was interesting that as part of the whole nostalgia craze that has been going on over the past 10 years to 20 years, it has now reached the genre of racing games where arcade racing games in a variety of old styles still exist and are made as entirely new games with modern aesthetics and sensibilities.

51:49.140 --> 52:11.220

Tom: And so it's understandable that they exist, that Hot Shot Racing exists, and that Horizon Chase Turbo exists as an aesthetic throwback, but as a gameplay throwback in terms of the actual gameplay, I think they are merely a competitor for the likes of Need for Speed Heat rather than games doing something different.

52:11.240 --> 52:13.140

Phil: Okay, fair enough.

52:13.920 --> 52:25.900

Tom: And of them all, I would argue that Need for Speed Heat captures the feeling and excitement of Top Gear or Cruisin better than the throwback games do.

52:25.920 --> 52:35.440

Phil: I've got to say on those throwback games, I recently put in Top Gear and also the Cruisin series for reasons I don't understand.

52:36.180 --> 52:40.180

Phil: They do actually hold up and that's probably no surprise to you, I don't know.

52:41.320 --> 52:42.240

Tom: Well, not at all.

52:42.260 --> 52:52.600

Tom: At least in terms of Top Gear, as I said, I was actually playing that on the SNES around the same time and it was still very enjoyable today.

52:52.620 --> 52:59.260

Tom: And it probably should not be too much of a surprise given the simplicity of the gameplay.

53:00.520 --> 53:06.820

Phil: I think before we get to The Last Stop, which is a game that you've been playing...

53:07.780 --> 53:20.840

Tom: It is, and before we do any of that, and then we are going to go directly into The Last Stop, I'll have to interrupt you there for our much delayed ASMR food test.

53:20.940 --> 53:21.440

Phil: Oh God.

53:21.820 --> 53:26.200

Tom: And this time you will be pleased to know that it is in fact a vegan dish.

53:26.560 --> 53:26.920

Phil: Good.

53:28.200 --> 53:34.580

Tom: It is a vegan fish, fried fish, from a shop called Hunky Dory.

53:35.600 --> 53:40.320

Tom: And I've never tried vegan fish before.

53:40.580 --> 53:50.820

Tom: I've tried vegan beef based, not based, beef inspired products, chicken inspired products and pork inspired products, but not fish.

53:50.840 --> 53:52.500

Tom: What is your experience with vegan fish?

53:52.560 --> 53:57.460

Phil: And when you talk about vegan fish, you're not talking about fish that don't eat animal products.

53:58.680 --> 53:58.940

Tom: No.

53:58.960 --> 54:00.420

Phil: Okay, you're talking...

54:00.500 --> 54:01.260

Tom: I'm speaking of a...

54:01.280 --> 54:01.840

Tom: A simulator.

54:02.640 --> 54:03.100

Tom: That's right.

54:03.880 --> 54:10.920

Phil: My experience with vegan fish would be limited to the candy Swedish fish, which is a vegan gummy.

54:12.260 --> 54:18.500

Phil: It's a pretty poor substitute for a gummy, but it is still vegan, which basically describes all of your choices as a vegan.

54:19.660 --> 54:23.100

Phil: Which is it's not as good as the real thing, but hey, it's vegan.

54:23.440 --> 54:31.400

Tom: I think with Swedish fish, though, that offers an interesting alternative, because this probably goes with most vegan food, actually.

54:31.480 --> 54:45.820

Tom: It is very much its own thing that is not like a standard gummy, where it is very hard and chewy, and you don't really get any sort of flavour until it has been well mashed up by your teeth.

54:46.120 --> 54:49.120

Phil: Oh, I wouldn't be that harsh on the old Swedish fish.

54:49.960 --> 55:07.040

Tom: No, but that's a good thing that is in contrast to a standard gummy, because you then get this sudden burst of flavour out of nowhere that you can then enjoy during the rest of the mouthful, rather than a gradual, consistent release that you get in a standard gummy.

55:07.060 --> 55:10.120

Phil: I've got to say, too, that I'm not an ethical vegan.

55:10.340 --> 55:12.160

Phil: I am a dietary vegan.

55:12.280 --> 55:14.560

Tom: You're a very unethical vegan.

55:14.580 --> 55:24.180

Phil: Yeah, so apparently being an ethical vegan is one of the ways you get out of getting the vaccine because it was tested on animals.

55:24.460 --> 55:26.620

Phil: So I did not know that.

55:28.020 --> 55:30.000

Phil: But I am not an ethical vegan.

55:30.080 --> 55:34.860

Phil: I don't eat meat and animal products based on ethics alone.

55:35.740 --> 55:38.380

Phil: It's mostly because I don't like meat.

55:38.420 --> 55:39.520

Phil: I don't like eating meat.

55:39.540 --> 55:41.980

Phil: I've never really appreciated the flavors.

55:42.000 --> 55:43.020

Phil: I don't like the texture.

55:43.900 --> 55:46.480

Phil: And then the concepts usually gross me out as well.

55:46.480 --> 55:48.420

Phil: Just knowing where that stuff comes from.

55:48.820 --> 55:53.760

Phil: I'm like, I don't want to eat it, you know, like eggs and milk and things like that.

55:54.000 --> 55:59.340

Phil: I just think it's conceptually, I guess I'm a conceptual vegan.

56:00.180 --> 56:06.620

Phil: Because I just don't, I don't want to drink milk that's coming out of another thing, you know, or anything.

56:06.820 --> 56:08.280

Tom: What do you want your milk to come out of?

56:08.300 --> 56:09.960

Phil: I don't want my milk to come out of anything.

56:09.960 --> 56:10.840

Phil: I don't want to drink it.

56:10.860 --> 56:14.800

Phil: I want my milk to come out of a soybean or an almond is where I want my milk.

56:15.620 --> 56:17.160

Tom: Well, that is coming out of something.

56:17.180 --> 56:23.680

Phil: Yeah, I've heard that described as nutsap, almond milk.

56:24.640 --> 56:27.020

Phil: So, but no, I don't like that.

56:27.040 --> 56:31.980

Phil: So, for me, like I have never liked fish, ever.

56:32.120 --> 56:37.720

Phil: As a child, I never liked fish, I never liked crab, I never liked prawns, I don't like any of it.

56:38.760 --> 56:45.080

Tom: You can really tell with the disdain in his voice there just how much he hates animals, confirming he is not an ethical vegan.

56:45.100 --> 56:45.800

Phil: An ethical vegan.

56:48.080 --> 56:51.440

Phil: I'm a vegan of convenience, you could say.

56:51.440 --> 56:52.260

Phil: But no, I...

56:52.520 --> 56:54.100

Tom: I think I prefer conceptual vegan.

56:54.240 --> 57:04.340

Phil: If someone were to make me a McFish, like a fillet of fish, which is apparently popular for old people at McDonald's, I wouldn't want it.

57:04.400 --> 57:05.220

Phil: I just wouldn't want it.

57:05.240 --> 57:06.360

Phil: I would have no interest in it.

57:06.940 --> 57:12.040

Phil: I would be more likely if someone came up to me and said, here's some crocodile meat.

57:12.340 --> 57:13.440

Phil: Would you like to try it?

57:14.580 --> 57:16.560

Phil: Even though I'm a vegan, I'd probably go, you know what?

57:16.640 --> 57:17.660

Phil: Yeah, I'll give it a try.

57:17.680 --> 57:19.060

Phil: I've never had crocodile meat.

57:19.220 --> 57:20.240

Phil: It could be a good story.

57:20.380 --> 57:28.980

Phil: I will try a small amount of crocodile meat just so I know what it tastes like if it comes up that I have to eat it out of necessity.

57:30.260 --> 57:36.500

Phil: But if someone came up to me and said, here's a fake fillet of fish, yeah, I would not eat it.

57:37.160 --> 57:38.480

Phil: I just would not eat it because I don't like fish.

57:39.160 --> 57:44.840

Phil: Now, I know that you like fish because you're eating flake or booty, flake booty.

57:45.680 --> 57:46.260

Tom: That's right.

57:47.320 --> 57:48.300

Phil: As it's called in India.

57:50.160 --> 57:51.160

Tom: But England.

57:51.700 --> 57:52.800

Phil: England, okay.

57:53.020 --> 57:53.400

Tom: Yes.

57:53.660 --> 57:57.580

Phil: Okay, so yeah, so does that answer your question about fish?

57:58.560 --> 58:02.980

Tom: Well, I will add that you are a pro-meat vegan.

58:03.700 --> 58:06.240

Tom: I am a pro-vegan meat eater.

58:06.260 --> 58:10.820

Tom: So I will say that vegans are ethically superior to non-vegans.

58:11.520 --> 58:12.420

Tom: But I eat meat.

58:13.380 --> 58:18.720

Tom: While you will say vegans are not ethically superior to vegans, but you do not eat meat.

58:18.740 --> 58:19.460

Phil: I think that...

58:19.480 --> 58:20.380

Tom: So together...

58:20.580 --> 58:21.340

Phil: We balance out.

58:22.100 --> 58:22.840

Tom: We balance out.

58:22.860 --> 58:26.920

Phil: Yeah, we're the yin and yang of vegan.

58:26.940 --> 58:28.680

Tom: Of failed ideals.

58:28.700 --> 58:28.960

Phil: Yes.

58:30.180 --> 58:34.060

Phil: But I would say that are vegans ethically superior to non-vegans?

58:35.460 --> 58:36.920

Phil: Ah, yes, I would say that they are.

58:39.380 --> 58:47.120

Tom: It depends though on what your belief on the agency and feelings of plants are.

58:49.340 --> 58:50.660

Phil: That's a topic for another day, Tom.

58:50.860 --> 58:53.360

Phil: So, okay, so you ate this fake fillet of fish.

58:53.960 --> 58:55.920

Tom: Well, I'm about to do it now live on air.

58:55.940 --> 58:56.240

Phil: Oh, okay.

58:56.960 --> 58:58.900

Phil: He's fishing for compliments, people.

59:00.140 --> 59:01.600

Phil: So, what would you call fake fish?

59:04.020 --> 59:08.000

Phil: I don't know if he's actually eating it now or if he's taking a break.

59:08.000 --> 59:10.080

Tom: I just took the first bite.

59:12.520 --> 59:14.560

Tom: Let's say it doesn't really taste anything like fish.

59:16.960 --> 59:22.660

Tom: The patty part of it has a texture that is perhaps somewhere between a white fish and chicken.

59:23.860 --> 59:31.920

Tom: The flavour is, I think, more in line with, say, a frozen chicken nugget than anything to do with fish.

59:32.860 --> 59:43.240

Tom: The very edge of the patty and the batter, I think, has the texture and a little bit of the taste of a frozen fish finger that has been toasted, though.

59:44.020 --> 59:45.180

Tom: So that is slightly fishy.

59:45.740 --> 59:48.480

Tom: I'm now going to add a lemon juice to it and try again.

59:48.500 --> 59:52.740

Phil: Did the lemon come from, um, what's the name of it, Hey, Djibouti?

59:52.760 --> 59:53.660

Phil: What's the place called?

59:54.060 --> 59:54.960

Tom: Honky Dory.

59:55.240 --> 59:56.960

Phil: Did the lemon come from Honky Dory?

59:57.080 --> 59:57.640

Tom: Yes, it did.

59:57.660 --> 59:58.040

Phil: That's nice.

59:58.060 --> 01:00.760

Phil: That's very nice.

01:02.760 --> 01:04.320

Phil: Did they give you a vinegar option?

01:05.360 --> 01:05.980

Tom: No, they did not.

01:06.000 --> 01:09.360

Phil: Would you eat balsamic vinegar with a fried fish product?

01:10.660 --> 01:11.320

Tom: Yes, I would.

01:11.340 --> 01:14.760

Tom: And that used to be a common thing that was offered at fish and chip shops.

01:14.780 --> 01:15.400

Phil: Balsamic vinegar?

01:16.380 --> 01:16.680

Tom: Yes.

01:16.700 --> 01:17.300

Phil: I did not know that.

01:17.520 --> 01:21.540

Tom: But, but that is, I don't know if balsamic vinegar, but vinegar in general.

01:21.560 --> 01:22.580

Phil: Oh, vinegar, yes, yes.

01:22.780 --> 01:23.040

Tom: Yeah.

01:23.640 --> 01:26.380

Tom: But that seems to be quite rare today in fish and chip shops.

01:26.400 --> 01:30.160

Phil: Well, they cut costs, you know, I mean, you have to buy the little tomato sauce sachets.

01:30.180 --> 01:31.240

Phil: Now those used to be free.

01:32.400 --> 01:32.700

Tom: Yep.

01:33.180 --> 01:45.940

Tom: So the second bite with the lemon juice on it, I think perhaps just due to the association between fish and lemon juice, does actually give it a slightly more fishy flavour to it.

01:47.020 --> 01:01:03.360

Tom: So I think if you bought this and added lemon juice to it, I think it does make for a satisfactory fake fish product and I think in terms of the protein you're getting from it, it's probably higher than in a standard fish of the same size.

01:01:03.380 --> 01:01:04.960

Phil: And most likely less mercury too.

01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:08.740

Tom: Yes, but also less fatty acids.

01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:11.460

Phil: But the associated flavours thing, that certainly works.

01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:26.380

Phil: I know that in my experience with serving tofu scramble, which is basically like scrambled eggs made out of tofu, if you put on pepper and salt and tomato sauce slash ketchup, it really sells it.

01:01:26.740 --> 01:01:30.420

Phil: You know, then people are like, oh yeah, this really is just like scrambled eggs.

01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:32.180

Phil: It's like, no, it's just all the shit you put on it.

01:01:32.240 --> 01:01:34.240

Phil: It's just like the stuff you put on scrambled eggs.

01:01:36.240 --> 01:01:36.900

Phil: So yeah.

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:43.180

Phil: Okay, so is that a thumbs, it sounds like probably not a repeat buy for Tom Towers.

01:01:45.140 --> 01:01:49.480

Tom: Solely because if I'm buying something from the chip shop, I'm doing it to get fish.

01:01:50.680 --> 01:01:53.100

Tom: But I would certainly eat that again for sure.

01:01:53.120 --> 01:01:57.340

Tom: So it would be a repeat eat, if not a repeat buy.

01:01:57.380 --> 01:01:58.160

Phil: Repeat eat.

01:01:59.100 --> 01:02:04.920

Phil: Speaking of repeat eats, I've got to say, this has been on the list for quite some time and I just want to cross it off.

01:02:06.200 --> 01:02:07.500

Phil: Giant bombed at gone.

01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:18.600

Phil: So you might recall from me several months ago that half the crew, well, most of the personalities associated with the site quit or were rousted.

01:02:20.380 --> 01:02:25.280

Phil: And it was kind of like, oh my gosh, you know, what's going to go on, you know, with giant bomb?

01:02:25.860 --> 01:02:32.620

Phil: Because I've got to say, there's less and less video game podcasts out there and giant bomb is, you know, the...

01:02:32.820 --> 01:02:34.660

Tom: Our strategy is simply to be the last one left.

01:02:34.680 --> 01:02:35.820

Phil: The last one standing, right.

01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:40.940

Phil: There, I mean, there are less and less choices for video game podcasts.

01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:42.880

Phil: It's quite poor, really.

01:02:45.020 --> 01:02:49.060

Phil: Whereas, you know, podcasting has gotten bigger in every other sense in video game.

01:02:49.080 --> 01:02:56.700

Phil: It's just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk, probably because all of that audience has gone over to Twitch and in that form of, you know, content.

01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:07.960

Phil: So they had this big old podcast where they're saying goodbye to all the guys that they just fired and yeah, you know, oh, it's going to be tough.

01:03:08.080 --> 01:03:19.880

Phil: And on that podcast, two things stood out to me, one that there was one of the four people that left that said, hey, you know, just so everyone knows, this was my choice to leave.

01:03:20.640 --> 01:03:24.500

Phil: And the other three didn't say that, which was telling to me.

01:03:25.120 --> 01:03:33.480

Phil: And you know, it's it's the sort of thing it was like, oh, yeah, well, of course, you know, you know, and I just want to make clear that this is also my choice to leave.

01:03:33.500 --> 01:03:35.240

Phil: But you know, none of the others said that.

01:03:36.260 --> 01:03:40.800

Phil: So it's pretty clear that they got fired or laid off rather is more appropriate.

01:03:41.900 --> 01:03:46.440

Phil: And they had this this big long podcast about, oh, yeah, don't know what we're going to do without you guys.

01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:49.860

Phil: But obviously, we're going to have to change direction and everything else.

01:03:50.580 --> 01:03:58.140

Phil: And Giant Bomb had, you know, become increasingly woke, you know, with in terms of the personalities that they were showcasing.

01:03:59.220 --> 01:04:05.480

Phil: And it was also of note that none of the people left had anything kind to say about Jeff Gerstmann.

01:04:06.380 --> 01:04:07.260

Phil: Interesting.

01:04:07.500 --> 01:04:22.580

Phil: And at one point, one of the people leaving went out of their way to thank Jeff Bacalar, who was basically only very recently introduced to the Games Group for the company that they work for and say, yeah, since Jeff...

01:04:22.600 --> 01:04:23.980

Tom: Was he just called Jeff Bacalar?

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:25.500

Phil: No, Jeff Bacalar.

01:04:28.100 --> 01:04:29.620

Phil: He's not a Greek confectionary.

01:04:32.660 --> 01:04:42.300

Phil: So and he like they went out of their way to thank him for everything he had done since he had joined the group and the support that they've gotten since he came on.

01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:45.760

Phil: So, you know, all that was interesting.

01:04:46.580 --> 01:04:49.560

Phil: And then I thought, okay, they're going to do a complete switch.

01:04:49.580 --> 01:05:01.020

Phil: Like, you know, everyone thought, oh, they're going to go to like a multi channel, you know, bring in new influences, diversify everything so that they have more people talking.

01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:11.740

Phil: And then the old crew will take a back seat to the editorial and just basically be directing the company, but they're going to make it newer and, you know, have all these younger people on and do all this stuff.

01:05:12.520 --> 01:05:23.760

Phil: On the very next episode, they basically announced, yeah, we've hired Danny, Danny O'Dwyer, which, you know, you've been a supporter of Danny Doherty's work for longer than I have.

01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:27.060

Tom: He is a visionary tourism.

01:05:27.080 --> 01:05:29.240

Phil: A way of getting money from tourist agencies.

01:05:29.260 --> 01:05:31.860

Tom: He's even more impressive than Scott Morrison.

01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:36.000

Phil: Yes, or Crocodile Dundee in terms of getting people to go to countries.

01:05:36.020 --> 01:05:38.840

Tom: Those are probably the top three advertisers of all time.

01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:44.100

Tom: Scott Morrison, ScoMo, Crocodile Dundee and Danny O'Dwyer.

01:05:44.120 --> 01:05:48.200

Phil: Our current Prime Minister, and people must be wondering what's wrong with Australia.

01:05:48.220 --> 01:05:50.100

Phil: We've had the same Prime Minister for like two years now.

01:05:53.260 --> 01:05:59.380

Phil: But yeah, his way of attracting tourists to Australia is basically close the borders entirely in both directions.

01:06:01.180 --> 01:06:14.860

Phil: I drive to a city that's nearby to me about once a month, and they have this old rusted bulldozer in their front yard of a farm, and it has a sign on it that says not for sale, right?

01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:21.400

Phil: I can't believe how much interest that must draw to that bulldozer, right?

01:06:21.700 --> 01:06:29.720

Phil: And I was like, one of these days, they're going to take the knot off there, and they're going to sell this thing in like 30 minutes, because every time you drive by it, it says not for sale, not for sale.

01:06:29.740 --> 01:06:30.220

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:30.780 --> 01:06:33.920

Phil: So one day I drive by and the knot is not on there.

01:06:33.940 --> 01:06:34.920

Phil: It just says for sale.

01:06:35.100 --> 01:06:37.640

Phil: I'm like, holy hell, the bulldozer.

01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:39.160

Phil: I could go buy that bulldozer.

01:06:39.180 --> 01:06:42.980

Phil: So it turns out that the knot part had just fallen off.

01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:53.760

Phil: So it just tickles me that like, you know, because they wouldn't have known that the knot part had fallen off or folded over, right?

01:06:54.100 --> 01:06:59.580

Phil: So like they must have been inundated by people stopping their vehicle going, well, how much do you want for the bulldozer?

01:07:00.700 --> 01:07:04.480

Phil: You know, and then being angered because they had not taken.

01:07:07.180 --> 01:07:10.880

Phil: And all of a sudden they're inundated with people wanting to buy the bulldozer.

01:07:11.860 --> 01:07:15.980

Phil: So the next time I drove by there, they had a new not for sale sign on it.

01:07:16.980 --> 01:07:18.320

Phil: So the bulldozer is still there.

01:07:18.340 --> 01:07:26.340

Phil: That is Scott Morrison's advertising tactic for Australia is that basically you can't come here.

01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:27.980

Phil: No, I don't care.

01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:28.900

Phil: You can't come here.

01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:29.460

Phil: I don't care.

01:07:29.700 --> 01:07:30.920

Phil: I'm an Australian citizen.

01:07:30.940 --> 01:07:32.000

Phil: There's 80,000 of us.

01:07:32.020 --> 01:07:32.940

Phil: I'm dying in India.

01:07:33.260 --> 01:07:39.600

Phil: If you come here, we'll put you in jail and we'll fine you $12,000, but I want to come home.

01:07:39.620 --> 01:07:41.080

Phil: You can't come in.

01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:44.520

Phil: And I think, you know, it's got to be working.

01:07:45.260 --> 01:07:46.640

Phil: People have got to be wanting to come in.

01:07:46.660 --> 01:07:50.960

Phil: I mean, look at all the celebrities that are flying in on their own jets, you know, getting around it.

01:07:52.100 --> 01:07:54.360

Tom: So he truly is a marketing genius after all.

01:07:54.380 --> 01:07:54.860

Phil: After all.

01:07:55.180 --> 01:07:57.000

Phil: It's the bulldozer nut for sale tactic.

01:07:58.560 --> 01:07:59.140

Tom: The classic.

01:07:59.160 --> 01:07:59.620

Phil: The classic.

01:07:59.640 --> 01:08:00.640

Tom: From Edward Bernays.

01:08:02.260 --> 01:08:03.480

Phil: What were we talking about anyway?

01:08:03.520 --> 01:08:04.460

Phil: Oh, so anyway.

01:08:05.180 --> 01:08:13.700

Phil: So then they come back on the very next podcast after all of this self-flagellation and, oh my God, what are we going to do without you guys and all the rest of it?

01:08:14.020 --> 01:08:16.180

Phil: And they're like, OK, yeah, we've hired Denny O'Dwyer.

01:08:17.020 --> 01:08:29.640

Phil: And we're also bringing in Jeff Green, who is apparently the only older, whiter, more male person that they didn't have on staff already.

01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:36.140

Phil: And then we're bringing back Dan, whatever his name was, who was there.

01:08:37.340 --> 01:08:45.080

Phil: And they basically announced that they're bringing back all of their friends who are all middle-aged white guys, which is fine.

01:08:45.100 --> 01:08:47.240

Phil: I mean, they can run the business however they want.

01:08:48.500 --> 01:08:59.880

Phil: But it was just so funny because, you know, they'd been going in this direction of diversifying their staff for so long, and now they're all a bunch of middle-aged white guys and good on them.

01:08:59.940 --> 01:09:05.740

Phil: You know, I mean, you know, I think basically their strategy now is to put more things behind a paywall.

01:09:06.180 --> 01:09:14.060

Phil: And I've got to say they do have one Filipino-American working for them before someone sends me a, you know, thing saying, no, no, no, there is diversity there, so.

01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:16.800

Tom: But only one.

01:09:17.120 --> 01:09:17.700

Phil: Yeah, one.

01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:18.220

Tom: Yeah.

01:09:18.700 --> 01:09:22.500

Tom: You need to get at least two just so you don't get accused of token.

01:09:22.520 --> 01:09:28.440

Phil: Well, there's no gender mix, you know, there's no trans on staff, you know.

01:09:29.260 --> 01:09:30.340

Phil: They used to have a lesbian.

01:09:30.360 --> 01:09:31.780

Phil: They don't have a lesbian anymore.

01:09:32.320 --> 01:09:32.900

Phil: They used to have a...

01:09:33.160 --> 01:09:34.420

Tom: How come they don't have a lesbian?

01:09:34.620 --> 01:09:35.240

Phil: I don't know.

01:09:35.260 --> 01:09:39.400

Phil: I mean, we haven't had a lesbian, but obviously that's why we're being held back.

01:09:41.620 --> 01:09:45.100

Phil: We tried to have a lesbian, you know, I think...

01:09:45.300 --> 01:09:47.720

Tom: But unfortunately they were a lesbian, so it didn't work out.

01:09:48.360 --> 01:09:49.940

Phil: They are difficult to work with.

01:09:51.540 --> 01:09:52.660

Phil: That's a joke, you know.

01:09:53.240 --> 01:10:04.620

Phil: But in any case, I just had to get that off the topic list because it was just funny to me that they basically did a left turn and they dropped, you know, four of the main personalities from the site.

01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:07.480

Phil: And, you know, they seem to be doing all right.

01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:11.880

Phil: I mean, the podcast is still listenable other than the Jeff Bacalar guy, so...

01:10:13.620 --> 01:10:14.860

Tom: I've heard he tastes good though.

01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:16.040

Phil: What's that?

01:10:16.420 --> 01:10:16.780

Phil: Oh, the...

01:10:17.260 --> 01:10:18.880

Tom: I said I've heard he tastes good though.

01:10:18.900 --> 01:10:19.640

Phil: The Baklava.

01:10:19.940 --> 01:10:21.000

Phil: Do you know what's in Baklava?

01:10:21.200 --> 01:10:23.160

Phil: It's mostly dates, isn't it?

01:10:23.180 --> 01:10:24.680

Tom: I think so.

01:10:24.700 --> 01:10:25.140

Tom: Yeah, all right.

01:10:25.340 --> 01:10:25.780

Phil: Fair enough.

01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:27.520

Phil: Okay, so what's the last...

01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:30.380

Tom: What do you think the Jeff Gertzman animosity was about?

01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:31.660

Phil: What animosity?

01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:36.540

Tom: You just said they went out of their way of not saying anything nice.

01:10:36.560 --> 01:10:46.880

Phil: Look, Danny O'Dwyer did a doco in the early days of his, you know, endeavor on Jeff Gertzman.

01:10:48.360 --> 01:11:01.640

Phil: And after all the nice stuff, I think he did have to put in there, just for credibility purposes, towards the end of it, you know, there's basically 30 seconds where Danny says, now, I've got to say...

01:11:01.980 --> 01:11:02.740

Phil: That's terrible.

01:11:02.780 --> 01:11:04.720

Phil: My usual iris action is much better.

01:11:05.740 --> 01:11:11.320

Phil: But basically says, you know, Jeff Gertzman can be not the best, you know, the easiest person to get along with.

01:11:11.540 --> 01:11:13.700

Phil: He spends most of his days wearing headphones.

01:11:14.420 --> 01:11:17.740

Phil: And, you know, in his communications, they can be direct.

01:11:20.040 --> 01:11:22.600

<v SPEAKER_3>Jeff isn't the most social person you'll work with.

01:11:22.820 --> 01:11:27.980

<v SPEAKER_3>He commutes to and from Petaluma every day, a 40 mile drive during Bay Area rush hour.

01:11:28.360 --> 01:11:31.140

<v SPEAKER_3>Perhaps it's why he doesn't socialize much after work.

01:11:31.360 --> 01:11:34.160

<v SPEAKER_3>Or maybe it's a convenient excuse to not have to.

01:11:34.420 --> 01:11:37.680

<v SPEAKER_3>At his desk, he sits with headphones on, usually working on something.

01:11:37.900 --> 01:11:40.360

<v SPEAKER_3>When he talks to you, he speaks openly and honestly.

01:11:40.980 --> 01:11:42.700

<v SPEAKER_3>And when he doesn't want to talk, he doesn't.

01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:52.980

Phil: So you know, I think he's just probably just like not a personality kind of guy other than when he goes on to the podcast.

01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:58.340

Phil: Apparently he doesn't say a lot when he's not in front of a camera or a microphone.

01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:03.560

Phil: And you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

01:12:03.620 --> 01:12:09.480

Phil: But I mean, you've got to get along with your if you've been working with people for 10 plus years, you've got to find a way to get along with them.

01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:19.440

Phil: I think also too, that basically he became a manager slash owner out of duress and he probably just prefers being a content creator.

01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:23.260

Phil: And then he got put into the position of being an owner slash manager.

01:12:24.200 --> 01:12:27.160

Phil: And he's probably not cut out for it, you know, and he didn't ask for it.

01:12:27.180 --> 01:12:28.200

Phil: But that's just very good.

01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:30.460

Phil: Now I hear you've rolled the die of destiny.

01:12:30.480 --> 01:12:31.960

Phil: So what score?

01:12:31.980 --> 01:12:35.760

Tom: We're going to have to rate Giant Bomb, I think.

01:12:36.940 --> 01:12:43.560

Tom: I just want to add quickly though, you said the last 30 seconds of credibility, they added the bit about Jeff Gershman there.

01:12:43.580 --> 01:12:53.780

Tom: I think the subtext there by the standards of Noclip is that he must have been murdering people in the studio basement or something.

01:12:56.220 --> 01:13:07.960

Tom: Because I think if you will recall on the ad for Ireland that he did, as well as about 30 seconds on George Romero or whoever he was ostensibly interviewing there.

01:13:09.540 --> 01:13:18.320

Tom: As well as 30 seconds for that, there was like a two second snippet saying that this sort of thing totally destroyed the Irish economy, move on instantly.

01:13:19.060 --> 01:13:27.840

Tom: So, if you're getting a full 30 seconds there, something serious must have been going on at Giant Bomb.

01:13:27.860 --> 01:13:28.520

Phil: Ando crime.

01:13:29.680 --> 01:13:30.100

Phil: Okay.

01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:30.980

Phil: All right.

01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:34.680

Phil: So, what score did you give my summary of the changes at Giant?

01:13:34.740 --> 01:13:36.520

Tom: No, this is a rating for Giant Bomb.

01:13:44.800 --> 01:13:46.760

Tom: They use the five-point scale, typically.

01:13:46.780 --> 01:13:48.260

Tom: That's a one out of five.

01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:50.460

Phil: Sounds about right.

01:13:50.480 --> 01:13:53.080

Tom: I think that's a fair rating.

01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:53.480

Phil: I think so.

01:13:53.500 --> 01:13:54.180

Tom: I think that is a fair rating.

01:13:54.200 --> 01:13:54.600

Phil: I think so.

01:13:54.660 --> 01:13:55.580

Phil: It's a good podcast.

01:13:56.980 --> 01:14:00.340

Phil: But I don't think they deserve the great community that they've got.

01:14:00.360 --> 01:14:02.600

Phil: They've got a really good community over there.

01:14:03.680 --> 01:14:04.680

Tom: Arnie is a big fan.

01:14:05.020 --> 01:14:05.280

Phil: Yeah.

01:14:06.160 --> 01:14:07.240

Phil: I am a big fan too.

01:14:07.260 --> 01:14:14.740

Phil: I mean, you know, I listen to almost anything they put out, but you know, there's not a lot out there to listen to these days.

01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:18.680

Tom: So you said they're putting a lot of stuff behind a paywall.

01:14:18.700 --> 01:14:20.840

Tom: Would you pay for any of their content?

01:14:21.460 --> 01:14:23.460

Phil: I don't have the time to pay for their content.

01:14:23.480 --> 01:14:29.480

Phil: Like if I had more time, I probably would throw a few bucks their way.

01:14:30.100 --> 01:14:35.320

Phil: But you know, the additional content, they've got some additional podcasts that they've added behind a paywall.

01:14:36.660 --> 01:14:43.520

Phil: If the video game podcasting, it's really like four shows that are worth listening to anymore, including our own.

01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:59.480

Phil: So if it gets much worse than I probably will, just so I have something else to listen to, because usually I'm listening to politics or sports or, you know, reference material or, you know, that sort of thing.

01:15:01.120 --> 01:15:09.380

Phil: So, you know, if I did need more content, I probably would pay the trivial amount that they're asking for to support their model.

01:15:10.400 --> 01:15:22.980

Tom: Before we move on from the real topic of this conversation, which is Noclip, I just have to add that the more one really thinks about the crowning achievement of Noclip, which was the Rocket League documentary.

01:15:23.280 --> 01:15:23.960

Phil: The first one.

01:15:23.980 --> 01:15:28.720

Tom: The more, yes, that's right, yep, and arguably their only good video.

01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:39.100

Tom: The more even that video kind of just comes across as very much an internally made making of documentary.

01:15:39.980 --> 01:16:07.860

Tom: Because while it did feature some, I mean it had a lot of content in it, while it did feature some potentially uncomfortable moments in it, everything was absolutely and totally spun into it being essentially a story of how amazing the company is and what they managed to achieve with the incredible excess of Rocket League and so on and so forth.

01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:10.700

Phil: Do you think that comes out of politeness?

01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:16.400

Phil: Like does that come out of, you know, the people from the UK just being polite?

01:16:16.520 --> 01:16:18.240

Phil: I mean does that carry over into Ireland?

01:16:18.260 --> 01:16:18.680

Phil: I don't know.

01:16:20.420 --> 01:16:31.940

Tom: I don't think politeness is a big thing in Ireland in the same way as in England anyway, but I think it comes from two things.

01:16:33.240 --> 01:16:50.520

Tom: One is I would say the newness of the medium because that was pretty much the first large quote investigative end quote journalist style things done on YouTube games criticism.

01:16:53.080 --> 01:17:05.900

Tom: And two, just the way that the games commentary industry works in conjunction with PR companies and with development studios.

01:17:05.940 --> 01:17:13.920

Tom: I doubt he would have been able to get the sort of access he had if he was not making something which was essentially an advertisement.

01:17:14.380 --> 01:17:32.360

Tom: Because the only thing outside of that where that where there is commentary on games that is not part explicitly of the marketing campaign for games is by random individuals, for example, Jason Schreier, who we were talking about earlier.

01:17:33.640 --> 01:17:38.520

Tom: Yeah, I think I think he got away with it just due to the change in the medium.

01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:48.120

Phil: I do think politeness does have something to do with it as well because I mean, he is relying 100% on studios giving him access.

01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:59.680

Phil: So the second he does a knife job on a studio that's let him in, I mean, you go in there, you meet everyone, you talk to them, you get to know them.

01:17:59.860 --> 01:18:03.240

Phil: I mean, it does make it difficult to do a slam piece on them.

01:18:04.060 --> 01:18:14.340

Phil: I mean, it does, for a normal human being, unless you're seeking attention, it does make it difficult to make it negative.

01:18:14.360 --> 01:18:21.060

Phil: But the other thing too is if someone's letting you have, quote, full access, how much negativity are you going to interact with?

01:18:21.080 --> 01:18:23.480

Phil: It's not like they're saying, oh yeah, you have full access.

01:18:24.200 --> 01:18:25.700

Phil: Here's our HR department.

01:18:25.720 --> 01:18:34.260

Phil: Just ask them whatever you want about issues that employees have had in the past, management decisions and things like that.

01:18:35.580 --> 01:18:38.640

Tom: I'm just saying that there should be some self-awareness of this.

01:18:40.480 --> 01:19:01.440

Tom: If you're visiting America on an official tour, or the Soviet Union on an official tour, or North Korea on an official tour, and you're going along seeing these areas, you would expect there for someone who calls themselves a games critic or journalist, there to be some self-awareness that this is occurring.

01:19:02.180 --> 01:19:03.300

Tom: That's all I'm saying.

01:19:03.320 --> 01:19:03.960

Phil: You are right.

01:19:04.020 --> 01:19:12.320

Phil: I mean, it would be good for him to say to people like, while he's interviewing them, since you've given me full access, let me just talk to you and, okay, and how'd you do this in the game?

01:19:12.340 --> 01:19:13.440

Phil: Oh, yeah, and how'd you do that in the game?

01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:22.100

Phil: Yeah, but sure, there must have been times where you would have preferred to have been home with your family and you stayed here because you felt pressured to stay here, right?

01:19:22.120 --> 01:19:25.340

Phil: So there are ways to get to that, right?

01:19:27.060 --> 01:19:29.580

Phil: And I'm sure you really enjoy working in the game industry.

01:19:30.140 --> 01:19:44.780

Phil: It's very rewarding to be in a creative endeavor, but it's certainly, you must know that you'd be making at least two times more if you're working in development for other software in other industries, right?

01:19:45.300 --> 01:19:54.220

Phil: And try and itch those scabs sort of thing to try and get them to say something on those topics and that just doesn't happen.

01:19:55.820 --> 01:20:10.600

Phil: And yeah, and it does hurt the content because certainly like I start watching a lot of no clip shows and then stop watching, you know, I don't watch them all the way through because they're clearly just advertising, you know, free advertising pieces.

01:20:11.240 --> 01:20:26.220

Phil: And the ones that were the most offensive to me or the least interesting to me was the stuff that he did with Bethesda, which was time and time again, just basically they were just like watching videos that the in-house.

01:20:27.240 --> 01:20:34.320

Tom: For instance, there surely he how did he miss the Bill Cosby pictures and everything?

01:20:34.740 --> 01:20:35.640

Tom: I don't understand it.

01:20:35.740 --> 01:20:36.520

Tom: How did he know it?

01:20:36.540 --> 01:20:37.080

Phil: Activision.

01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:41.960

Tom: Well, they owned by Bethesda, sorry, they owned Bethesda.

01:20:42.580 --> 01:20:44.100

Phil: No, Bethesda is owned by...

01:20:44.160 --> 01:20:45.840

Tom: Oh, wait, no, there's Zenimax.

01:20:45.860 --> 01:20:47.880

Phil: Zenimax is owned by Microsoft now.

01:20:48.300 --> 01:20:49.460

Tom: I stand corrected.

01:20:49.680 --> 01:20:51.360

Tom: They've got the Jeffrey Epstein poster.

01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:52.220

Phil: That's right.

01:20:52.240 --> 01:20:52.720

Tom: I'm sorry.

01:20:53.780 --> 01:20:57.200

Phil: Jeffrey Epstein room, yeah.

01:20:57.280 --> 01:20:59.440

Phil: I heard Bill Gates talking about that last week.

01:20:59.460 --> 01:21:00.160

Phil: It was interesting.

01:21:01.760 --> 01:21:05.360

Phil: Do you care or anything about the whole Activision thing or...

01:21:07.340 --> 01:21:09.580

Tom: Well, I mean, I've already made one joke about it.

01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:10.780

Tom: So do we need to make more...

01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:12.080

Phil: Not really, not really.

01:21:12.360 --> 01:21:15.320

Phil: It's an old trope at this point.

01:21:16.740 --> 01:21:20.040

Phil: But yeah, I think I do like Danny D'Andre.

01:21:20.080 --> 01:21:20.980

Phil: I've got to say that.

01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:24.780

Phil: I do think he's an authentic character and...

01:21:25.200 --> 01:21:26.000

Phil: I agree.

01:21:26.040 --> 01:21:31.020

Phil: He is very good at what he does in terms of the production values and things like that.

01:21:31.040 --> 01:21:33.220

Phil: I think he does phenomenal work.

01:21:34.340 --> 01:21:39.740

Phil: Got to think that he might be able to do more, but he wouldn't get the access that he gets.

01:21:40.760 --> 01:21:54.400

Tom: Of the three advertising luminaries of today we've mentioned, Scott Morrison, Danny O'Dwyer and Crocodile Dundee, I do believe that Danny O'Dwyer is the only authentic and likable one among them.

01:21:54.840 --> 01:22:01.740

Phil: I was going to say, if you could have a beer with Scott Morrison, Paul Hogan slash Crocodile Dundee or Danny O'Dwyer.

01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:06.720

Tom: I would probably say Scott Morrison.

01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:11.600

Tom: I think that would be the most interesting.

01:22:11.620 --> 01:22:12.040

Phil: Yes.

01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:19.580

Phil: Look, in terms of people I want to meet, I don't know what I'd say.

01:22:20.140 --> 01:22:26.000

Phil: In terms of having a beer with someone, probably Danny O'Dwyer because being a fellow Irishman, I'm pretty sure that he could keep up with me.

01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:33.660

Tom: And then again, if they're purchasing the type of beer, I think I would probably have to go with the Irishman as well.

01:22:35.240 --> 01:22:38.040

Tom: Because I don't trust what either of the Australians will be drinking.

01:22:38.380 --> 01:22:40.320

Phil: It's not going to be Foster's, I can tell you that.

01:22:41.820 --> 01:22:43.640

Phil: Do we want to talk about another game or?

01:22:44.440 --> 01:22:47.500

Tom: Well, we did review Omno on the website, I believe.

01:22:47.940 --> 01:22:51.400

Phil: A masterful, another game that looks like Sky or Journey.

01:22:52.020 --> 01:22:54.260

Tom: There are quite a few of them now, or at least two.

01:22:54.540 --> 01:23:00.680

Phil: And another game, you were quite taken with the independent developer, please tell me the name of them.

01:23:02.080 --> 01:23:04.040

Tom: Was it Jonas Manke?

01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:08.020

Phil: Yeah, so the Omni review is on the front page of our website.

01:23:09.120 --> 01:23:12.320

Phil: And yeah, Jonas Manke, or Jonas Manke.

01:23:13.240 --> 01:23:14.140

Tom: Jonas Manke.

01:23:14.180 --> 01:23:17.760

Phil: Yeah, and like Tim Keenan, he's a former animator.

01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:23.160

Phil: I recently re-listened to your interview with Tim Keenan, by the way, which was outstanding.

01:23:25.820 --> 01:23:28.640

Phil: One of the good things about being the long-standing podcast.

01:23:29.060 --> 01:23:46.680

Tom: I think, fine, it did feature some tough moments, including, I think, the most awkward and uncomfortable thing for any developer to face, which was, particularly as an indie developer there, my comments criticising her story, which she had to respond to.

01:23:46.700 --> 01:23:58.860

Tom: I think you could feel the fear and terror that something critical on an indie game being stated caused an email.

01:23:58.880 --> 01:24:08.520

Phil: Episode 48 was the first interview, or second interview you had done with him, and he was the creator of Duskers and what was his first game called?

01:24:10.280 --> 01:24:12.040

Phil: A Virus Named Tom, yeah, exactly.

01:24:12.660 --> 01:24:14.340

Phil: Sounded like a delightful chap.

01:24:15.020 --> 01:24:15.780

Tom: He did indeed.

01:24:16.460 --> 01:24:17.860

Phil: Did you interview him after that?

01:24:19.040 --> 01:24:19.960

Tom: No, I don't think so.

01:24:19.980 --> 01:24:23.380

Phil: Okay, I don't know what happened to him after Duskers.

01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:29.380

Tom: I'm pretty sure Duskers is the last game he has made thus far.

01:24:29.400 --> 01:24:33.780

Tom: I think he's possibly not working full-time in games at the moment.

01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:44.960

Tom: But Duskers, you actually see being mentioned around here and there on the internet today still, which is perhaps not that surprising given its uniqueness.

01:24:45.460 --> 01:24:59.840

Phil: I think too, if I could just speak candidly, I know that his wife who was also one of the co-developers of the game was pregnant with their first child, second child.

01:24:59.860 --> 01:25:20.040

Phil: So I do think that that game development period in this pre-COVID world lent them as a family the opportunity to spend a lot of time together, which would have been a wonderful thing for them, as they brought up their first two children or their first two children into the world sort of thing.

01:25:21.160 --> 01:25:24.880

Phil: So and the fact that the games are still getting mentioned today is notable.

01:25:25.160 --> 01:25:29.860

Phil: I'm sure they're still drawing income in this if they ever get noticed sort of thing.

01:25:31.360 --> 01:25:32.060

Tom: Quite possibly.

01:25:32.080 --> 01:25:39.580

Phil: But Omno was also made by a former animator, but it is derivative.

01:25:39.820 --> 01:25:42.760

Phil: I mean, it looks a lot like Journey.

01:25:42.780 --> 01:25:45.600

Phil: It looks like it's got sand surfing in there as well.

01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:47.000

Phil: What sort of game is it?

01:25:49.220 --> 01:25:53.960

Tom: Well, it is a 3D platformer and it is highly derivative.

01:25:53.980 --> 01:26:10.720

Tom: I think the thing that makes it nevertheless of interest is unlike Duskers, where again, there are a few cinematic things there that would come from animation, but due to the nature of the game, it is not so much about animation here.

01:26:11.180 --> 01:26:36.920

Tom: I think the interesting ways it is more like a short animated film or a dreamworks, not necessarily Pixar style animation, do set it apart from things it is copying such as Journey or Eco, where both of them are very much original.

01:26:37.240 --> 01:26:50.900

Tom: And if they have a reference to other mediums in a big way, it's ones that one would not necessarily immediately associate with games such as literature and painting.

01:26:51.820 --> 01:26:53.600

Phil: So that review is on our site.

01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:55.240

Phil: You played it on PC, no doubt?

01:26:56.280 --> 01:26:57.040

Tom: Yes, I did.

01:26:58.740 --> 01:27:00.140

Phil: Anything else you want to talk about?

01:27:01.560 --> 01:27:09.060

Tom: Well, that review was well received on the VG Press, I believe, by VEDA and Supreme AC.

01:27:09.080 --> 01:27:12.600

Tom: And I'm pretty sure that that has happened on a couple of occasions in the past.

01:27:12.900 --> 01:27:25.680

Tom: And I've noticed a pattern that my best received reviews, at least at the VG Press, are always the ones that are written the fastest and with the least amount of time and effort put into them.

01:27:25.820 --> 01:27:31.820

Phil: Well, I mean, the people that are still contributing to discussion forums, that's how they roll, right?

01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:34.000

Phil: I mean, that's how they communicate.

01:27:34.100 --> 01:27:34.740

Phil: Yes.

01:27:35.100 --> 01:27:35.760

Phil: That is true.

01:27:37.240 --> 01:27:38.680

Tom: Speaking of communication.

01:27:40.300 --> 01:27:40.640

Tom: Yes.

01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:53.020

Tom: We have been, I have now been, I don't know if anyone has noticed, because it has, essentially our Twitter style has ended up being the same, which is posting absolutely nothing.

01:27:54.500 --> 01:28:02.860

Tom: But I did subtly and stealthily take over The Game Under Twitter account.

01:28:03.740 --> 01:28:04.620

Tom: Some time ago.

01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:07.280

Phil: I noticed an increase in topless selfies.

01:28:07.440 --> 01:28:09.920

Phil: So it wasn't that, it was noticed.

01:28:11.200 --> 01:28:19.360

Tom: Well, there would be, if I had gone to the effort of uploading cyberpunk screenshots, there would have been a lot of topless selfies.

01:28:20.200 --> 01:28:20.840

Phil: Very cool.

01:28:21.780 --> 01:28:28.420

Tom: And if we ever have an Instagram for Game Under, there will be a lot, because there are a lot of cyberpunk screenshots to go through.

01:28:28.440 --> 01:28:29.300

Phil: Hey, you know what?

01:28:29.360 --> 01:28:31.160

Phil: This brings me up to another topic.

01:28:32.300 --> 01:28:33.980

Phil: Say what you will about Homefront.

01:28:35.480 --> 01:28:39.600

Phil: They shipped a game on a disc with pretty much no ability to update it.

01:28:40.220 --> 01:28:41.900

Phil: At least the bloody thing worked.

01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:42.900

Phil: And it was a game.

01:28:42.980 --> 01:28:45.100

Phil: I mean, can you imagine how scary that would have been?

01:28:45.540 --> 01:29:07.680

Phil: Like producing a game back in the day when you're just putting it on a disc or a cartridge and just hoping like hell that you captured everything as opposed to cyberpunk, which is like basically if they ever get sued in a class action lawsuit, other than by their shareholders, they basically decide, well, we'll just ship it and fuck it.

01:29:07.700 --> 01:29:09.860

Phil: You know, I mean, we'll update it later.

01:29:09.880 --> 01:29:17.860

Phil: The game is unplayable on the largest platform available other than PC, which is PlayStation 4.

01:29:19.580 --> 01:29:20.820

Phil: It's just incredible to me.

01:29:23.460 --> 01:29:31.000

Phil: And I think a lot about Homefront, mostly because it's at eye line level when I walk out of the media room.

01:29:31.780 --> 01:29:35.680

Phil: That section of video games happens to be the last thing I see as I walk out of the media room.

01:29:37.580 --> 01:29:40.780

Phil: But anyway, I had to say that.

01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:49.280

Phil: That game did have a running treadmill hooked up for a water filtration system in it to water the garden of tomatoes or something.

01:29:50.020 --> 01:29:50.520

Phil: Is that right?

01:29:51.700 --> 01:29:52.140

Tom: Did it?

01:29:53.300 --> 01:29:54.760

Phil: There's only one way to find out.

01:29:54.780 --> 01:29:55.380

Tom: Wait, yeah, yeah.

01:29:55.400 --> 01:29:57.240

Tom: The intro, during the intro, yes.

01:29:57.260 --> 01:29:57.840

Tom: Something like that.

01:29:57.860 --> 01:29:58.760

Phil: There's only one way to find out.

01:29:58.780 --> 01:30:00.100

Phil: That's for us to both get back to the game.

01:30:00.120 --> 01:30:00.800

Phil: It's time for a replay.

01:30:00.820 --> 01:30:02.160

Phil: It's time for a replay.

01:30:02.660 --> 01:30:06.440

Phil: I think it also had a bridge level, but I just might be thinking of Killzone.

01:30:06.460 --> 01:30:08.800

Tom: Yes, one of the worst bridge levels in history.

01:30:09.660 --> 01:30:11.060

Phil: Anyway, I'm sorry.

01:30:11.080 --> 01:30:14.100

Tom: And I'm not sure there has ever been a good bridge level in a first person shooter.

01:30:14.120 --> 01:30:15.420

Phil: What were you saying about Twitter?

01:30:18.980 --> 01:30:21.760

Tom: Yes, I also actually think about Homefront on and off.

01:30:21.780 --> 01:30:22.120

Phil: You do.

01:30:22.780 --> 01:30:27.720

Tom: Surprisingly often, there is something about that game that sticks with you.

01:30:27.740 --> 01:30:28.020

Phil: Yeah.

01:30:28.420 --> 01:30:29.440

Tom: There definitely is.

01:30:29.620 --> 01:30:35.320

Phil: Yeah, and this is the original Homefront, not that they did another one that was crap a couple of years ago.

01:30:36.880 --> 01:30:37.800

Tom: Yet another crap.

01:30:37.820 --> 01:30:38.520

Tom: Well, yeah.

01:30:38.620 --> 01:30:39.420

Tom: Two in a row.

01:30:39.440 --> 01:30:40.420

Phil: It was absolutely worse.

01:30:40.440 --> 01:30:42.540

Phil: It was inexplicable as to why they went back to it.

01:30:43.560 --> 01:30:45.020

Phil: What is our Twitter handle anyway?

01:30:45.100 --> 01:30:46.420

Phil: It's Game Under Phil, right?

01:30:47.480 --> 01:30:49.380

Tom: Yes, Game at Game Under Phil.

01:30:49.400 --> 01:30:55.180

Phil: If you want to follow us at Game Under Phil, I'm just having a look now.

01:30:55.920 --> 01:31:03.160

Phil: Oh, you promoted our podcast and you promoted your review of Omno and Inglot.

01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:06.420

Tom: At the same time, I believe.

01:31:06.440 --> 01:31:08.940

Tom: In the one tweet, that's how succinct I can be.

01:31:11.100 --> 01:31:17.240

Phil: Oh, Tim Keenan retweeted, Duskers turns five years old today.

01:31:19.340 --> 01:31:21.240

Phil: And he didn't ask for anything on Reddit Games.

01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:22.840

Phil: 50% off Steam.

01:31:23.140 --> 01:31:24.960

Phil: And he's returned to being a full-time indie.

01:31:26.240 --> 01:31:26.820

Tom: There we go.

01:31:26.840 --> 01:31:28.500

Tom: So he was not, now he is.

01:31:28.520 --> 01:31:29.340

Phil: Misfit Addicts.

01:31:30.440 --> 01:31:31.540

Phil: Okay, cool.

01:31:32.660 --> 01:31:33.940

Phil: Probably time to check in with him, huh?

01:31:35.320 --> 01:31:36.020

Tom: Quite possibly.

01:31:37.360 --> 01:31:40.040

Tom: So Twitter, I believe we were talking about.

01:31:41.680 --> 01:31:57.160

Tom: Now, I don't know if it's the people that you were following or not, but it can't just be the people you're following because I know quite a few of them, such as Jamie and the Endless Backlog crew and Chris Langner.

01:31:58.240 --> 01:32:02.580

Tom: Chris Langner and Gargan are potentially the two exceptions to this.

01:32:03.120 --> 01:32:19.760

Tom: But I do wonder what exactly the utility of having 140 character limit is because it appears to be very difficult to say anything interesting in 130 words or less.

01:32:19.840 --> 01:32:21.780

Phil: Yes, we've noticed this about you, Tom.

01:32:21.800 --> 01:32:25.500

Tom: 140 characters or less, sorry.

01:32:26.220 --> 01:32:27.080

Tom: And if you do...

01:32:27.280 --> 01:32:32.740

Tom: It's difficult for you to say anything in less than 140 paragraphs.

01:32:33.200 --> 01:32:34.900

Tom: My tweets are impeccable.

01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:38.800

Tom: I literally promoted two things in the one tweet.

01:32:38.920 --> 01:32:39.660

Tom: I'll have you know.

01:32:41.220 --> 01:32:42.800

Tom: So this does not apply to me at all.

01:32:43.060 --> 01:33:12.520

Tom: But the only time anyone says anything vaguely interesting in on Twitter, for the most part, it is either a joke which requires no response to it or it is a statement that is filled with so much vitriol and fury that the only way to respond to it would be to come up with something even more heinous and eviscerate.

01:33:12.540 --> 01:33:13.380

Phil: That would be awesome.

01:33:15.040 --> 01:33:16.840

Phil: Now you're making me want to go back to Twitter.

01:33:19.040 --> 01:33:23.700

Tom: Which has led me to not communicate with anyone on Twitter.

01:33:24.540 --> 01:33:29.860

Phil: I think, I've always said you're the master quip, you're the quip master, rather.

01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:37.960

Phil: And yeah, I think if you took it from a shock comedy perspective, I think you could do a lot with Twitter.

01:33:38.420 --> 01:33:39.260

Phil: I think that'd be fun.

01:33:40.340 --> 01:33:44.460

Tom: Well, Chris Langner posts a stream of jokes that are usually pretty reasonable.

01:33:44.480 --> 01:33:45.540

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:33:45.580 --> 01:33:54.320

Phil: I actually like Twitter and the people that I was following on Twitter because it's made up mostly of people in Australia and New Zealand loosely associated with it.

01:33:54.340 --> 01:33:58.320

Tom: And I just have to add, I think my tweeting record is reasonable.

01:33:58.340 --> 01:34:06.900

Tom: For instance, when Super Straight was trending, I posted, hi, Super Straight, Super Gay, Super Lesbian.

01:34:07.200 --> 01:34:08.740

Tom: You have to check out this sexuality.

01:34:08.740 --> 01:34:12.620

Tom: It's the most innovative sexuality I've had intercourse with in years.

01:34:13.360 --> 01:34:14.480

Tom: Hashtag superhot.

01:34:15.380 --> 01:34:16.900

Phil: Pretty good, pretty good.

01:34:17.320 --> 01:34:17.920

Phil: Super hot.

01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:21.600

Tom: I'm not saying it was great, but it did use the medium successfully.

01:34:21.740 --> 01:34:22.680

Tom: That's all I'm saying.

01:34:22.860 --> 01:34:24.780

Phil: Super hot's another game, I think, about a fair bit.

01:34:25.580 --> 01:34:30.380

Phil: Hey, so, what is the last stop for this episode?

01:34:31.520 --> 01:34:35.100

Tom: The last stop for this episode is Salt Shaker Lane.

01:34:36.980 --> 01:34:40.100

Tom: Now, last stop, I've forgotten who to develop and what they're called.

01:34:40.800 --> 01:34:53.300

Tom: But they, Variable State, yes, and they are famous for making Virginia, which was at the height of indie experience games.

01:34:53.460 --> 01:35:03.920

Tom: And it was very heavily inspired by the likes of Twin Peaks and the X-Files and things of that nature.

01:35:04.440 --> 01:35:09.500

Tom: And I remember impressively little about that game.

01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:16.560

Tom: I remember a few of the settings and a couple of the characters, but that is about it.

01:35:16.580 --> 01:35:25.380

Tom: Whereas I remember other games from that sort of era that I liked even less, such as for instance, Gone Home, very well indeed.

01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:34.120

Tom: So I was really not going into this with the highest of expectations to say the least.

01:35:34.180 --> 01:35:35.640

Phil: It was not a memorable game.

01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:45.200

Phil: It borrowed heavily from like X-Files sort of thing, but also at the same time, the Walking Dead video games type of thing.

01:35:45.200 --> 01:35:47.960

Phil: And it just wasn't particularly interesting.

01:35:48.400 --> 01:35:57.420

Phil: The art style was reminiscent of Sunset by one of our other favorite game developers.

01:35:57.440 --> 01:36:03.060

Phil: And yeah, I just remember not really finishing the game or feeling a need to play much of it.

01:36:04.360 --> 01:36:10.020

Phil: So this is a studio that's based in England and Dublin.

01:36:12.200 --> 01:36:16.160

Phil: And it's available, published by Annapurna Interactive.

01:36:16.700 --> 01:36:17.640

Phil: And it's on everything.

01:36:17.920 --> 01:36:20.580

Phil: So Windows through Switch, everything in between.

01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:27.420

Phil: It's a single player exploration game that came out just very recently, July 22nd.

01:36:29.300 --> 01:36:31.840

Phil: And it's set in 1980s London, I understand.

01:36:32.720 --> 01:36:34.880

Tom: Well, I think it's set in present day London.

01:36:37.840 --> 01:36:40.080

Tom: But it begins in 1980s London.

01:36:40.100 --> 01:36:42.320

Phil: OK, and then jumps to the 2020s.

01:36:42.340 --> 01:36:43.880

Tom: That's right, jumps ahead in time.

01:36:44.020 --> 01:36:52.880

Tom: And the plot set up is basically that someone disappears in the London underground in supernatural circumstances.

01:36:54.360 --> 01:37:08.380

Tom: And then skips ahead to the three different stories featuring four protagonists who each have their own interaction with the paranormal things that are going on.

01:37:08.640 --> 01:37:18.860

Tom: One character works for a company that is investigating these paranormal activities, potentially for the military industrial complex.

01:37:19.920 --> 01:37:32.100

Tom: Another character is a teenager who runs into a mysterious character who may be kidnapping people or something to that effect.

01:37:32.620 --> 01:37:41.720

Tom: And another story is about two characters once, who are involved in a body swapping scenario.

01:37:42.820 --> 01:37:48.240

Phil: Well, it sounds like it's got the capability of exploiting some pretty good game mechanics.

01:37:50.040 --> 01:37:51.580

Tom: Well, it certainly does not do that.

01:37:53.200 --> 01:38:12.340

Tom: The gameplay consists of choosing dialogue responses, which as far as I can tell do not have much of effect on what is said, and certainly do not affect the way that the plot unrolls in any way, shape or form, except in maybe a couple of decisions at the end.

01:38:14.820 --> 01:38:17.280

Tom: And that's pretty much it for the gameplay.

01:38:17.300 --> 01:38:36.580

Tom: There are a few QTE style things in the style of Indigo Prophecy slash Fahrenheit, such as if you're drinking a cup of coffee, if you're playing on a keyboard, you press, I think, A then S, then W as if you're moving the cup towards you, then lifting it, something like that.

01:38:39.540 --> 01:38:48.040

Tom: And also if you're running, you might press A and D back and forth very quickly to get a speed boost, that sort of thing.

01:38:49.300 --> 01:38:54.080

Tom: Though again, I don't know if failing those things actually has any effect either.

01:38:54.540 --> 01:38:57.500

Tom: So in gameplay terms, I don't think it is very interesting.

01:38:57.940 --> 01:39:05.120

Tom: In terms of the setting and story, it is a big step up from Virginia.

01:39:05.720 --> 01:39:18.160

Tom: I think mainly because there is a sense of humour to the story of all, to all three stories in the game, particularly unsurprisingly the body swapping story.

01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:35.540

Tom: As one of the characters is a game developer who looks like a fitness fanatic version of PewDiePie and another is a overweight bald middle-aged man with heart problems who has a daughter.

01:39:36.520 --> 01:39:47.700

Tom: So that's played up for all the laughs that you would expect and works quite well as a complement to the slightly more serious and mysterious other two stories.

01:39:47.980 --> 01:40:17.840

Tom: But the thing that surprised me was the sense of humour and self-awareness throughout the game which makes me wonder if I should go back to Virginia to see if it is in fact a parody because the only thing I remember about Virginia as well as a couple of the settings looking relatively okay was that a few moments were very unintentionally funny and now I'm wondering after playing this if they were actually intentionally funny, though they probably were not.

01:40:18.760 --> 01:40:20.480

Phil: Have you played this game to its completion?

01:40:21.500 --> 01:40:21.920

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:40:21.940 --> 01:40:23.700

Phil: I've heard it's about four hours long.

01:40:23.840 --> 01:40:24.140

Phil: Is that...

01:40:25.660 --> 01:40:27.100

Tom: Yep, that would be about right.

01:40:27.200 --> 01:40:32.480

Tom: It's not very long, but it also does not really live outlive its welcome.

01:40:35.020 --> 01:41:01.080

Tom: some of the chapters are extremely short, so I think perhaps structurally it would have worked better to make it less chapters with adding some of the chapters to the story in other chapters, because some of them basically last literally 10 minutes, where a chapter elsewhere will have lasted 30 or 40 minutes or so.

01:41:02.500 --> 01:41:13.940

Tom: So, there are some odd pacing decisions there, but otherwise it is relatively concise in how it tells its story.

01:41:15.560 --> 01:41:33.220

Phil: I rely on Wikipedia to kind of bring me up to speed on these games that I've never heard about and isn't it telling that, like, you can bring up a game that was released in July of this year and it doesn't have a reception section because no one reviews games anymore.

01:41:34.520 --> 01:41:44.300

Phil: You know, like, there's no Metacritic link or anything else and, you know, maybe that's just because the people who have put together this page aren't, you know, particularly interested in following it up.

01:41:45.500 --> 01:41:52.020

Phil: So I don't know how it's been received, but apparently there's a series of mini game interactions throughout the game.

01:41:52.040 --> 01:41:53.140

Phil: I was interested about that.

01:41:54.680 --> 01:41:55.620

Tom: What were the mini games?

01:41:56.160 --> 01:42:02.400

Phil: Were players control one of three main characters deciding what they should say and performing a variety of mini game interactions?

01:42:03.560 --> 01:42:07.680

Tom: I think that probably means the QTEs, but they don't want to call it QTEs.

01:42:09.460 --> 01:42:12.320

Phil: Yeah, and unfortunately the citations for that.

01:42:13.000 --> 01:42:26.820

Phil: You know, Dean Takahashi, he's like, he's another guy who wrote inside the Xbox as an investigative, quote, journalist, not really investigative journalist, but as a journalist.

01:42:28.480 --> 01:42:33.380

Phil: That was an outstanding book about the development of the original Xbox, but he's still kicking around.

01:42:34.660 --> 01:42:38.780

Tom: While we're going on as asides here, you said no one really reviews things.

01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:55.660

Tom: And GameSpot was a fascinating incubator of what the internet would be, which with the current games community not really having anything similar to that, but being broken up in various areas.

01:42:56.140 --> 01:43:16.740

Tom: Is Steam not now in fact somewhat like what GameSpot was with its myriad of user reviews ranging from seriously done writing to random stuff and sometimes very in depth games forums as well.

01:43:17.100 --> 01:43:22.680

Tom: It is not unlike a GameSpot that does not have any off topic discussion.

01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:32.740

Phil: I think with the destruction of NeoGAF, they got, what was it called, Remember Mead?

01:43:34.080 --> 01:43:35.120

Tom: Reset Era?

01:43:35.120 --> 01:43:38.360

Phil: Yeah, I mean they got turned into Reset Era.

01:43:38.740 --> 01:43:48.320

Phil: I think Reset Era, I haven't gone there, you know, per se, so I don't know if they've carried on that sort of community type thing that GameSpot had.

01:43:49.740 --> 01:43:55.600

Phil: But no, and also, you know, Reddit to an extent, but I agree with your point entirely.

01:43:56.480 --> 01:44:10.720

Phil: I think that Steam has a really rich community and, you know, you have this community where you have not only forums but also, you know, people pimping their content, be it a review or whatever.

01:44:10.740 --> 01:44:13.400

Phil: Yeah, no, I completely buy into that.

01:44:13.420 --> 01:44:18.180

Phil: I think Steam, because of its old school nature, they don't really do a lot with it.

01:44:18.200 --> 01:44:35.120

Phil: They don't really change that much unless they're forced to interchange, as you've seen with the GUI, graphical user interface they've updated, you know, based on competitive forces recently, like Epic Games and every other game store.

01:44:35.740 --> 01:44:37.380

Phil: But no, I completely buy that.

01:44:37.660 --> 01:44:38.540

Phil: You're absolutely right.

01:44:39.880 --> 01:44:43.420

Phil: So, back to our stop, and Off Topic was a great forum.

01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:51.160

Tom: It was, and not just the Off Topic forum, there were also the Off Topic blogs and unions as well.

01:44:51.440 --> 01:44:54.460

Phil: Gotta love the unions, but I was a union leader, as you know.

01:44:56.040 --> 01:44:56.700

Tom: So was I.

01:44:57.620 --> 01:45:24.240

Tom: So, last stop, there isn't really that much more to say on it because it is very simple and relatively short, but I think the other thing in Virginia that was notable, as I said, a couple of things I did remember from it were the settings, and I think this being set in England and them being English slash Irish makes a big difference to it.

01:45:25.260 --> 01:45:46.880

Tom: From the selection of cars that are on the streets to the atmosphere of the parks and flats and insides of offices and all those sorts of things, and of course the moments you're in the underground, they really have a very strong British atmosphere to it that was lacking in Virginia.

01:45:46.900 --> 01:45:57.740

Tom: You could see that visually they could come up with some interesting imagery, but none of it had any of the feel of Washington and the other places that it was set in.

01:45:57.940 --> 01:46:09.300

Tom: Not that I've been to Washington, but Twin Peaks, which is inspired by, I don't think that's in Washington either, but that has a really strong sense of place in it.

01:46:09.320 --> 01:46:15.000

Phil: Twin Peaks is set in Washington state, whereas Virginia is closer to Washington DC.

01:46:15.880 --> 01:46:19.720

Tom: And you really get that sense in Twin Peaks, you do not in Virginia.

01:46:19.740 --> 01:46:42.040

Tom: Here there is actually a strong sense of place, and when you end up in the other dimension as well, they can then allow their more dreamy imagination to be utilised well, which was the only real thing that stood out successfully as an aesthetic in Virginia.

01:46:42.420 --> 01:46:49.120

Tom: Here you get the two combined, which creates a more interesting and enjoyable atmosphere than in Virginia.

01:46:49.500 --> 01:47:02.720

Phil: And I think if not tonight as well, I'd be completely surprised if that was not developed by people who have first-hand knowledge of London or England, right?

01:47:02.740 --> 01:47:04.920

Phil: They carried that through extremely well, I thought.

01:47:06.600 --> 01:47:08.200

Tom: I'm pretty sure it is an English game.

01:47:08.380 --> 01:47:09.040

Phil: Has to be.

01:47:09.600 --> 01:47:10.220

Phil: Has to be.

01:47:10.480 --> 01:47:13.440

Phil: Hey, so for Australia, do we have a game?

01:47:13.460 --> 01:47:17.300

Phil: Do we have a game where you're like, oh yeah, these people have to have been to Australia?

01:47:19.000 --> 01:47:21.500

Phil: To have picked that up?

01:47:22.560 --> 01:47:25.500

Phil: Other than cruising the world, you know, with the kangaroos and...

01:47:26.600 --> 01:47:28.360

Tom: I think our game is Alain Noir.

01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:32.580

Phil: That is the most Australian game, I'd have to say.

01:47:32.600 --> 01:47:36.780

Tom: It captures the facial expressions of Australians, I think.

01:47:37.240 --> 01:47:38.940

Phil: Yeah.

01:47:39.020 --> 01:47:41.520

Phil: Okay, is it the last word on The Last Stop?

01:47:42.680 --> 01:47:43.220

Tom: That is.

01:47:43.260 --> 01:47:44.240

Tom: We're ready to score?

01:47:44.260 --> 01:47:44.880

Phil: I think we are.

01:47:44.900 --> 01:47:51.000

Phil: If you want to break out the die of destiny, I'll get the soundboard set up to make the rolling die sound effect.

01:47:54.300 --> 01:47:56.400

Tom: That gets, unfortunately, a 3 out of 10.

01:47:56.420 --> 01:47:58.640

Phil: Okay, but we can multiply that by 2.

01:48:00.220 --> 01:48:02.320

Tom: Which may be worse than what Virginia scored.

01:48:02.420 --> 01:48:03.980

Phil: We can multiply that by 2.

01:48:05.420 --> 01:48:10.180

Tom: We can, but we won't because we are ethical game journalists.

01:48:10.200 --> 01:48:11.640

Phil: Game journalists, yes, that's true.

01:48:12.840 --> 01:48:15.460

Tom: So how the die falls is how the die falls.

01:48:16.340 --> 01:48:18.980

Tom: And I did just remember that was not our last stop because...

01:48:19.460 --> 01:48:26.680

Phil: I'm sorry, I just went to our video game site, which has an amazing search tool.

01:48:27.460 --> 01:48:30.740

Phil: Because I wanted to see what you'd given Virginia as a score.

01:48:31.980 --> 01:48:33.540

Phil: You can only guess what I typed in.

01:48:33.560 --> 01:48:37.580

Phil: Now I'll spell it properly.

01:48:41.980 --> 01:48:43.860

Phil: We talked about Virginia a lot.

01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:45.040

Phil: Holy crap.

01:48:45.540 --> 01:48:46.920

Phil: We talked about it a lot.

01:48:47.020 --> 01:49:02.180

Phil: If you go to our site and put in Virginia, you'll not only get reviews of Lighthouse by Virginia Woolf, but also the various podcasts on which we spoke about Virginia.

01:49:02.200 --> 01:49:07.300

Tom: I think that's pretty impressive that we've got reviews by Virginia Woolf on our site.

01:49:07.840 --> 01:49:08.780

Phil: It is cool.

01:49:09.100 --> 01:49:16.440

Phil: But the number one hit on our site when you type in Virginia, spelt correctly, is AOL keyword G-U-P.

01:49:19.680 --> 01:49:28.680

Phil: And it's an article that says, we'll be back to discuss the current state of indie game development scene, the final impressions of Virginia and that dragon cancer.

01:49:28.700 --> 01:49:29.240

Phil: Click here.

01:49:30.520 --> 01:49:36.100

Phil: It says, trigger alert to humans, it sounds like something we'd say.

01:49:38.080 --> 01:49:41.540

Phil: If you're a human, you will be triggered by this podcast.

01:49:43.000 --> 01:49:43.940

Tom: I remember why.

01:49:43.960 --> 01:49:47.020

Tom: I believe it was due to our comments on that dragon cancer.

01:49:48.820 --> 01:49:50.120

Phil: Episode 92.

01:49:50.840 --> 01:49:58.400

Tom: As you can tell from the way Phil Fogg plays games, which is like a dragon, they're very much pro cancer at gameunder.net.

01:49:58.500 --> 01:50:01.080

Phil: Episode 92 is called Christian Cancer Company.

01:50:06.180 --> 01:50:15.780

Phil: Anyway, I think that the last word on the last call or whatever the hell it's called is also the last thing we'll do on this podcast for tonight.

01:50:16.500 --> 01:50:17.320

Phil: So thank you dear...

01:50:17.360 --> 01:50:19.780

Tom: Well, it would be if I had not been playing The Ramp.

01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:21.340

Phil: So thank you dear listener for joining us.

01:50:21.360 --> 01:50:23.140

Tom: Which probably should have been at the beginning of the show.

01:50:23.160 --> 01:50:24.680

Phil: For episode 137.

01:50:24.700 --> 01:50:25.260

Tom: But The Ramp.

01:50:25.340 --> 01:50:26.680

Phil: Of The Game Under Podcast.

01:50:26.700 --> 01:50:27.480

Phil: I've been your host.

01:50:28.420 --> 01:50:29.200

Tom: Yes, The Ramp.

01:50:30.280 --> 01:50:32.580

Phil: And Tom, do you have any last words before we go out?

01:50:33.940 --> 01:50:34.560

Tom: Yes I do.

01:50:35.440 --> 01:50:41.320

Tom: The Ramp is a skateboarding game developed by...

01:50:42.540 --> 01:50:43.480

Phil: Searches on the internet.

01:50:43.500 --> 01:50:43.600

Phil: Yes.

01:50:47.180 --> 01:50:48.200

Tom: Hyperparadise.

01:50:48.260 --> 01:50:50.140

Phil: And you wonder why you don't get free codes.

01:50:51.700 --> 01:50:52.840

Tom: Well, this is a free code.

01:50:52.860 --> 01:50:53.680

Phil: This was a free code.

01:50:54.120 --> 01:50:56.120

Tom: This is why I have to shoehorn it in.

01:50:56.140 --> 01:51:01.920

Phil: But if you actually had paid for the game, I'm pretty sure you would have been invested enough in it that you would know the name of the developer.

01:51:04.760 --> 01:51:05.640

Tom: But perhaps.

01:51:06.500 --> 01:51:07.020

Tom: Perhaps.

01:51:07.040 --> 01:51:08.620

Tom: But you said why I don't get them.

01:51:09.080 --> 01:51:09.400

Phil: Yes.

01:51:09.420 --> 01:51:10.160

Phil: This is why.

01:51:10.360 --> 01:51:11.760

Tom: But this is in fact proof that I do.

01:51:11.880 --> 01:51:13.000

Phil: So you've been playing The Ramp.

01:51:13.000 --> 01:51:14.280

Phil: What platform is it on?

01:51:14.280 --> 01:51:14.560

Tom: Yes.

01:51:14.580 --> 01:51:15.280

Phil: Surely you know that.

01:51:15.300 --> 01:51:17.600

Tom: It is on PC.

01:51:19.180 --> 01:51:20.920

Tom: I know that because that's what I'm playing it on.

01:51:22.520 --> 01:51:24.280

Tom: I think it possibly is only on PC.

01:51:24.300 --> 01:51:25.160

Tom: And it's developed by whom?

01:51:27.420 --> 01:51:28.400

Phil: And where are they based?

01:51:31.160 --> 01:51:31.720

Tom: The Earth.

01:51:35.180 --> 01:51:35.900

Tom: Maybe Finland.

01:51:35.920 --> 01:51:36.100

Tom: Okay.

01:51:40.500 --> 01:51:40.780

Phil: Yes, it is.

01:51:47.100 --> 01:51:47.820

Phil: I think it's a very good game.

01:51:50.960 --> 01:51:52.380

Phil: I think it's a very good game.

01:51:53.560 --> 01:51:54.100

Phil: I think it's a very.

01:51:59.520 --> 01:52:00.860

Phil: And that has brought more interest in it.

01:52:00.900 --> 01:52:06.700

Phil: People have been trying to get Skate remade by EA.

01:52:09.060 --> 01:52:11.140

Phil: And it was developed by Paul Schneff.

01:52:11.900 --> 01:52:17.300

Phil: It has four stages in all, featuring a vert half pipe, a couple of pools, a mega.

01:52:23.880 --> 01:52:33.280

Phil: And certainly, it's probably, as its influence, immediately when I hear about four levels, it reminds me of a game like Skate or Die back on the Commodore 64.

01:52:34.880 --> 01:52:37.380

Phil: So, yeah, so you've been playing this on PC?

01:52:39.340 --> 01:52:39.860

Tom: I have indeed.

01:52:39.900 --> 01:52:42.640

Phil: And that's the only platform on which it is available.

01:52:44.880 --> 01:52:47.480

Phil: And, yeah, so how does it actually control?

01:52:47.500 --> 01:52:49.280

Phil: Are you using a controller or...?

01:52:50.060 --> 01:52:50.800

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:52:50.820 --> 01:52:53.580

Tom: You can use a keyboard, but I would not recommend that.

01:52:54.560 --> 01:52:58.780

Tom: And the way it controls is what makes it so enjoyable and interesting.

01:53:02.040 --> 01:53:09.880

Tom: Essentially, when you begin at the top of a ramp, obviously, regardless of the level, then you drop in.

01:53:10.860 --> 01:53:15.380

Tom: And when you drop in, you want to be...

01:53:16.920 --> 01:53:18.680

Tom: You have a button which forces...

01:53:18.920 --> 01:53:23.520

Tom: which makes the character crouch and put their weight to the front of the board.

01:53:24.900 --> 01:53:29.000

Tom: And that's what you use whenever you're just rolling around pre-jump.

01:53:29.020 --> 01:53:32.340

Tom: So when you land, you want to be crouching a little.

01:53:32.580 --> 01:53:35.980

Tom: Then when you hit the ramp, you want to raise yourself up a bit.

01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:48.980

Tom: Then at the middle, and as you begin to go up the ramp, you then want to release that and straighten out once again, thus giving you a little bit more momentum as you go up the ramp and you're about to jump.

01:53:50.320 --> 01:54:02.260

Tom: So that basic thing creates a really enjoyable and satisfying rhythm that is not there in most skateboarding games that are not necessarily from an isometric perspective.

01:54:02.820 --> 01:54:17.640

Tom: And when you are jumping, you can then obviously rotate in the air and do a variety of simple tricks just using the right thumb stick or grind using, I think, the right bumper.

01:54:17.700 --> 01:54:21.020

Phil: So how do you do when you're up in the air, how do you do a 540?

01:54:21.040 --> 01:54:23.800

Phil: I mean, what is the mechanics for actually achieving that?

01:54:25.360 --> 01:54:34.080

Tom: You hold left or right in the direction you want to spin for the correct amount of time to be able to do that many rotations and land safely.

01:54:34.100 --> 01:54:34.820

Phil: It looks amazing.

01:54:34.860 --> 01:54:36.020

Phil: It looks really fun.

01:54:36.100 --> 01:54:39.520

Phil: How's the sound in it?

01:54:41.020 --> 01:54:42.900

Tom: The sound is very satisfying.

01:54:42.920 --> 01:55:00.100

Tom: The sound of the wheels going over the lip as you jump and land is really chunky and nice, and there's a very gravelly, woody sort of noise as you roll along the pools or the wood of the ramps.

01:55:01.760 --> 01:55:05.760

Phil: In terms of the vibration in the controller, is there much done there?

01:55:07.960 --> 01:55:09.840

Tom: There is a little from what I remember.

01:55:09.860 --> 01:55:19.600

Tom: I don't think they do that much, but if they are doing much, it's enough that it is not that memorable, yet not at all intrusive.

01:55:19.940 --> 01:55:26.140

Tom: I think the main focus on it is definitely in the sound.

01:55:26.280 --> 01:55:28.260

Phil: The name of the game is The Ramp.

01:55:28.280 --> 01:55:32.900

Phil: It's available on Steam for $8.50 Australian, so it's a pretty good pick up.

01:55:32.920 --> 01:55:34.320

Phil: It's developed by HyperParadise.

01:55:34.340 --> 01:55:40.340

Phil: It just came out last week and has overwhelmingly positive reviews from 532 users.

01:55:40.360 --> 01:55:47.220

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, it looks very, very interesting, but how much, I mean, is it very sticky?

01:55:47.340 --> 01:55:50.160

Phil: I mean, is this something that you'd go back to necessarily?

01:55:50.440 --> 01:55:53.340

Phil: And what length are the play sessions?

01:55:53.360 --> 01:55:54.840

Phil: Is this a five-minute game?

01:55:55.600 --> 01:55:56.340

Phil: And then you're done?

01:55:56.900 --> 01:55:57.200

Phil: Or...?

01:55:58.660 --> 01:56:04.720

Tom: For me, it is most enjoyable in maybe sessions of 10 minutes to half an hour.

01:56:06.960 --> 01:56:10.720

Tom: But I think it is just enjoyable if you just play it for a few minutes as well, though.

01:56:11.260 --> 01:56:14.460

Phil: And the developer describes it as a digital toy.

01:56:15.660 --> 01:56:16.020

Tom: Yes.

01:56:16.480 --> 01:56:18.700

Tom: Well, there's no career mode or anything like that.

01:56:19.320 --> 01:56:22.240

Tom: There are just, correct, there are just the levels.

01:56:22.260 --> 01:56:25.520

Phil: A lot of games, other than Homefront, not a lot of games have a career mode.

01:56:26.760 --> 01:56:27.060

Tom: Yes.

01:56:28.240 --> 01:56:29.820

Tom: Well, Art of Rally has a career mode.

01:56:29.840 --> 01:56:31.080

Phil: Oh, does it?

01:56:32.240 --> 01:56:33.000

Phil: North or South?

01:56:36.240 --> 01:56:37.580

Tom: West and East as well.

01:56:37.780 --> 01:56:38.800

Phil: There's no West Korea.

01:56:42.540 --> 01:56:43.700

Tom: I said Art of Rally.

01:56:44.460 --> 01:56:44.840

Phil: All right.

01:56:44.860 --> 01:56:46.620

Phil: So do you have anything else to say about the RAM?

01:56:48.420 --> 01:57:03.500

Tom: Yeah, just that, again, while there is no career mode or no scoring, that does actually put the focus on the mechanics and just trying to jump as high as possible and get as much rotation as you can.

01:57:04.720 --> 01:57:22.880

Tom: And the two pool levels can be really satisfying because due to the size of them, depending on how you're going through the levels, it can be really difficult to keep up a good amount of speed to be getting good jumps consistently.

01:57:23.880 --> 01:57:32.820

Tom: So it is tremendously simple, but a really enjoyable and unique take on skateboarding in games.

01:57:33.520 --> 01:57:34.160

Phil: Oh, excellent.

01:57:34.320 --> 01:57:37.540

Phil: And obviously it's a work of passion.

01:57:38.400 --> 01:57:44.960

Phil: It's averaging 9 out of 10 on Steam, amongst Steam users, so that's high praise.

01:57:44.980 --> 01:57:47.100

Phil: And, you know, that's probably why I've been hearing about it.

01:57:47.120 --> 01:57:51.380

Phil: So I'm glad that you highlighted it here at the end of the show.

01:57:51.400 --> 01:57:55.760

Phil: And since I've already done the outro, all I have to say to you is I'm Phil Fogg.

01:57:56.900 --> 01:57:58.760

Tom: And I'm about to roll the die of destiny.

01:57:58.780 --> 01:57:59.440

Phil: On The Ramp.

01:58:03.820 --> 01:58:04.840

Tom: Six out of ten.

01:58:06.240 --> 01:58:09.460

Tom: So the dice has not been kind today.

01:58:09.560 --> 01:58:10.000

Phil: No.

01:58:10.020 --> 01:58:12.240

Phil: It's kinder than it usually is.

01:58:12.280 --> 01:58:16.540

Phil: But still, yeah, not keeping up with the Steam users.

01:58:16.540 --> 01:58:17.760

Phil: But all right.

01:58:18.120 --> 01:58:18.660

Phil: Very good.

01:58:19.420 --> 01:58:20.800

Phil: Could it have been done on mobile?

01:58:21.520 --> 01:58:22.360

Tom: I would say it could.

01:58:22.500 --> 01:58:31.360

Tom: But I think it would have been probably pretty awkward because you could certainly do the basic skating mechanic.

01:58:31.660 --> 01:58:58.540

Tom: I think if you're then adding the rotation as well as tricks is where things become, I think, pretty awkward because the fact that you do have to be paying as much attention to what you're doing between the jumps makes it a lot more complicated than most skateboarding games, which I think would be difficult to translate on a screen.

01:59:00.020 --> 01:59:02.420

Phil: Now all you need to say is, I'm Tom Towers.

01:59:05.040 --> 01:59:05.700

Tom: I'm The Ramp.

Game Under Podcast 136

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

ASMR Segment

0:01:25 Bayonetta 3

0:01:50 Doom Eternal Impressions - Both Hosts

0:03:00 Rock'n'Roll McDonalds

0:05:10 Le White Burger Royale

0:09:50 PGA Tour 2021 Impressions - Phil Fogg

0:10:50 Chicken'n'Cheese w/ Sweet'n'Sour

0:12:40 Vegan Cultural Appropriation

News

0:15:06 Valve's Steamdeck

First Impressions - Phil

0:21:25 Sky: Children of Light - Phil Fogg on Switch

0:23:05 Cheeseburger in Lockdown Paradise

0:42:15 Little Prince Season Impressions - Tom Towers

0:49:15 How Big is Sky?

0:49:45 What's the Hook?

First Impressions - Tom and Phil (Explicit)

0:57:42 The First Tree - PC

0:57:56 But first, Amazon Prime Games

1:04:16 In defense of the makers of this game

Trademark Banter

1:05:30 A Plague's Tale Sequel and Watermelon Gatorade & Soda Stream

1:09:45 Lockdown Land and the Steamdeck vs. Switch OLED

First Impressions - Tom and Phil

01:14:13 Before I Forget - PC

01:21:17 Spoilers from here

First Impressions - Tom

01:26:26 Yakuza: Like a Dragon & Judgement News

Final Impressions - Tom and Phil

01:41:22 Not Tonight - PC and Switch

Outro

01:58:45 What's going on on gameunder.net?

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:12.820

Tom: Hello and welcome to Episode 136 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:13.060 --> 00:00:32.360

Tom: And I've received a little bit of feedback from several people, literally several people on Sky Children of Light that I know, who have for some reason listened to The Game Under Podcast, making up perhaps 50% of our total audience at the moment.

00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:34.960

Phil: Good feedback or bad feedback?

00:00:35.180 --> 00:00:43.000

Tom: Good feedback and of particular note to these people was the ASMR Dorito eating segment.

00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:57.040

Tom: So we're going to open the show with me serving, not just eating, but serving with bag noises and rustling of paper and so forth, some McDonald's items and I will then be eating them on air.

00:00:57.400 --> 00:01:16.000

Tom: And unlike the Endless Backlog Podcast, who basically began, arguably, this trend in games podcasts or Giant Bomb, eating on air, we have had the foresight to refer to this as deliberate segments rather than slovenly unprofessional behaviour.

00:01:16.860 --> 00:01:24.220

Tom: So I think though we did not literally start the trend here, we are taking it to new heights, I believe.

00:01:25.300 --> 00:01:26.240

Phil: As we always do.

00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:29.560

Phil: I was going to ask you about the Endless Podcast.

00:01:29.580 --> 00:01:34.140

Phil: What's more likely to occur first, the Smugcast 3 or Bayonetta 3?

00:01:35.060 --> 00:01:42.560

Tom: I think Smugcast 3 because I have actually been playing small segments of Doom Eternal.

00:01:44.600 --> 00:01:45.840

Tom: What's wrong with Doom Eternal?

00:01:47.020 --> 00:01:48.820

Phil: You just keep rustling away there.

00:01:49.140 --> 00:01:55.920

Tom: Well, actually, the opening has been a little bit disappointing and has not caught my attention like the original did.

00:01:58.340 --> 00:02:05.260

Tom: Which I will give a sneak preview of the upcoming Smugcast at some point, although I do believe it will improve.

00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:25.300

Tom: But the fact that they take away your dodge and other abilities like that from the just insane stuff you were doing by the end of Doom the original remake really makes for a slightly less interesting and awkward opening and the music just does not have the same impact as it did in the original.

00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:30.820

Phil: Well, I had a particular problem with it and that was because I had to download the entire game.

00:02:30.880 --> 00:02:38.880

Phil: Remember I talked about that, how I had to, well maybe it was off air, but I had to download the whole game and it was ridiculous.

00:02:38.900 --> 00:02:40.260

Phil: It was like 80 gigabytes.

00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:45.220

Phil: Then I had to create a Bethesda account on top of a Microsoft account to log in to play it.

00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:50.740

Phil: Then of course by the time I had done all that, I had to update it with another 6 gig update.

00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:54.200

Phil: I didn't particularly find the gameplay to be that enjoyable.

00:02:54.220 --> 00:02:58.120

Phil: I know what they were trying to go for, they were trying to make a thinking man's shooter.

00:02:59.220 --> 00:03:03.360

Phil: But back to this McDonald's, is this why the show started 4 hours late?

00:03:03.380 --> 00:03:06.100

Phil: You had to go to McDonald's during lockdown in your region.

00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:16.800

Tom: The queue was massive due to lockdown because people's lockdown exercises consists of 2 hours of waiting in a McDonald's queue, I believe.

00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:25.880

Phil: And we've got to explain that here in this country, during lockdown you're allowed to leave, one person from the household is allowed to leave once a day for essential travel.

00:03:26.220 --> 00:03:31.800

Phil: And so you have used your household's essential travel for this podcast, which I appreciate.

00:03:32.160 --> 00:03:34.100

Phil: So you went to McDonald's and what did you get?

00:03:34.940 --> 00:03:40.400

Tom: Well, I bought chicken nuggets with sweet and sour sauce.

00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:48.000

Tom: A three-piece and zero pieces of chicken nuggets arrived, but there is sweet and sour sauce.

00:03:49.340 --> 00:03:50.060

Phil: So no nuggets?

00:03:50.580 --> 00:03:53.540

Tom: So no nuggets, but sweet and sour sauce for the nuggets.

00:03:55.060 --> 00:04:02.300

Tom: I'm also trying for the first time a chicken and cheese burger with the addition of bacon.

00:04:02.420 --> 00:04:07.260

Tom: And I normally do not like McDonald's chicken burgers or McDonald's bacon.

00:04:08.620 --> 00:04:10.640

Tom: So this could be an interesting experience.

00:04:11.660 --> 00:04:22.480

Tom: And I also got a cheeseburger with extra pickles, extra sauce of both types, no onions and bacon for some reason as well.

00:04:22.500 --> 00:04:30.440

Phil: Yeah, and so we're going to rename the podcast The Leaving Las Vegas Podcast, starring McDonald's, featuring McDonald's foods.

00:04:30.460 --> 00:04:31.200

Phil: What are you doing?

00:04:31.260 --> 00:04:32.460

Phil: Are you trying to kill yourself?

00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:34.240

Tom: Recording on a toilet.

00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:35.680

Phil: You're trying to kill yourself?

00:04:36.840 --> 00:04:43.220

Tom: Well, I have the metabolism that most people dream of, in which I can eat large quantities of...

00:04:45.320 --> 00:04:46.460

Phil: Undigestible food.

00:04:46.820 --> 00:04:58.060

Tom: Undigestible food and not put on any weight, which most people dream of, but they probably do not dream of having such a metabolism if they spent many years underweight.

00:04:58.580 --> 00:05:01.340

Tom: So I would not in fact recommend this metabolism to people.

00:05:01.540 --> 00:05:02.280

Phil: In keeping with...

00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:04.800

Phil: I share that same metabolism, I just choose not to eat.

00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:07.520

Phil: So in keeping...

00:05:08.340 --> 00:05:12.460

Phil: Why are you breaking away from the vegan food that we've been featuring on the podcast?

00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.820

Phil: They do have a vegan burger at McDonald's, I believe, called The White Burger.

00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:18.660

Phil: Did you see The White Burger?

00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:20.920

Tom: No, I did not.

00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:23.140

Phil: That's interesting.

00:05:23.260 --> 00:05:25.180

Phil: So no meatless burgers?

00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:27.500

Tom: Next time I may need to try The White Burger.

00:05:29.140 --> 00:05:32.480

Phil: I'm just checking up that it's called The White Burger and that's not something I dreamt.

00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:35.580

Tom: It sounds like something you dreamt.

00:05:36.260 --> 00:05:38.240

Phil: Well, they had the black and white burgers.

00:05:38.260 --> 00:05:40.480

Phil: I remember they had the black burgers they released in Japan.

00:05:41.280 --> 00:05:43.100

Tom: I see a bun variety.

00:05:44.340 --> 00:05:44.940

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:44.960 --> 00:05:45.380

Phil: That's it.

00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:48.860

Tom: Their buns are already white bread, though.

00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:51.080

Phil: They are, typically.

00:05:51.880 --> 00:05:53.140

Phil: Okay, go ahead.

00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:53.620

Phil: Eat your...

00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:54.980

Phil: What are we eating first?

00:05:55.060 --> 00:05:55.800

Phil: Are you licking up the...

00:05:55.820 --> 00:05:59.460

Tom: We're going to take a bite of the chicken and cheese burger.

00:06:00.980 --> 00:06:04.500

Tom: Which I have high expectations for the cheese part of it.

00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:09.720

Phil: Was it creatively spelt, indicating that it's not actually cheese or chicken?

00:06:10.620 --> 00:06:14.140

Tom: No, I think it was chicken, then n, and then cheese.

00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:18.620

Tom: So it was not chick, apostrophe n, apostrophe cheese, unfortunately.

00:06:18.640 --> 00:06:20.840

Phil: Yeah, because then the chicken could be pretty much anything.

00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:24.440

Tom: I mean, it already is, who knows what.

00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:26.920

Phil: I'm going to suggest it's gluten or soy protein.

00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:32.640

Tom: It's not bad.

00:06:33.760 --> 00:06:35.760

Phil: It's not chicken stuffed with cheese, is it?

00:06:36.620 --> 00:06:42.140

Tom: No, it is a cheese sauce as well as half a slice of cheese.

00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:58.020

Tom: I can confirm that the chicken is essentially tasteless, which I think is a good quality in McDonald's chicken, because if McDonald's chicken tastes of something, it's probably not going to taste of anything good.

00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:10.340

Tom: And there is a slight pepper flavour to the fried coating, which goes nicely with the also essentially flavourless cheese sauce.

00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:22.460

Tom: So I think for a chicken burger from McDonald's with a cheese sauce, what you're looking for is a lack of flavour, I believe, or at least I am anyway.

00:07:24.020 --> 00:07:26.120

Tom: So I would say that is a success.

00:07:26.140 --> 00:07:26.980

Phil: Mission accomplished.

00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:27.620

Tom: Yes.

00:07:28.020 --> 00:07:32.240

Tom: I will now take a bite of it, including some of the bacon.

00:07:32.260 --> 00:07:34.860

Phil: Before you do that, I've got to say, what would you call their...

00:07:35.060 --> 00:07:36.880

Phil: I'm obviously not writing.

00:07:37.200 --> 00:07:40.180

Phil: It's not the white burger, but what would you call a...

00:07:40.300 --> 00:07:43.320

Phil: If you had to come up with a meat-free burger for McDonald's, what would you call it?

00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:52.300

Tom: Probably you wouldn't need to change the name, because I think it's up for debate how much meat they generally contain in the first place.

00:07:52.320 --> 00:07:52.620

Tom: Isn't it?

00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:54.120

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

00:07:54.260 --> 00:07:59.220

Phil: But I think actually what they're actually calling it is actually the best name.

00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:01.080

Phil: I can't think of anything better, which is rare.

00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:02.300

Phil: McPlant.

00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:04.580

Tom: McPlant, yes.

00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:06.360

Phil: That's brilliant.

00:08:09.100 --> 00:08:11.680

Tom: I will now take this second bite, including the bacon.

00:08:11.700 --> 00:08:12.420

Phil: Okay, here it goes.

00:08:16.180 --> 00:08:17.240

Tom: McDonald's bacon?

00:08:18.020 --> 00:08:19.840

Tom: I think this is actually a very good slice.

00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:26.640

Tom: There is a slight salty and sweet bacon-like flavour to it.

00:08:27.960 --> 00:08:33.000

Tom: And looking at it, it does not consist of 90% fat.

00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:36.540

Tom: So that's an above average slice of bacon.

00:08:36.560 --> 00:08:52.340

Tom: I would recommend adding it to this chicken and cheese burger, as you then also, in addition to the slightly peppery flavour of the coating of the chicken, have a slightly meat-based flavour to it as well.

00:08:53.680 --> 00:09:00.800

Tom: Which the saltiness also, I think, draws out a very slight sort of milky flavour of the cheese.

00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:05.260

Tom: So it is a worthy addition to the burger that I would recommend.

00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:10.640

Phil: There's a quiet grace and dignity to your review of the bacon at McDonald's.

00:09:10.760 --> 00:09:11.400

Phil: I'll say that.

00:09:13.900 --> 00:09:16.700

Phil: So I've got to say, how much did all of this cost?

00:09:17.420 --> 00:09:20.300

Phil: Like, I'm guessing that you dropped 30 bucks on this meal.

00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:29.560

Tom: Well, with the addition of the bacon to the McChicken and Cheese Burger, I think it was, the burger was $5.75.

00:09:31.900 --> 00:09:39.280

Tom: I think the total price was $28, but my sister also bought medium chips and a fillet of fish.

00:09:40.680 --> 00:09:43.700

Phil: Goodness gracious, you're going for the Noah Ark special.

00:09:44.620 --> 00:09:45.920

Phil: You're killing all the animals.

00:09:46.380 --> 00:09:47.040

Tom: That's right.

00:09:49.400 --> 00:09:52.600

Phil: I should say about $28 while you get your next food item ready.

00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:57.500

Phil: I was sitting down to buy something, and there were three games that were $28.

00:09:57.520 --> 00:10:05.040

Phil: It was The Last of Us 2, PGA Tour 2021, and another game I can't remember.

00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:11.520

Phil: And so I went with PGA Tour 2021 because I thought, you know, 28 bucks for the Switch.

00:10:11.760 --> 00:10:12.620

Phil: I figured this is good.

00:10:12.640 --> 00:10:15.040

Phil: I need a current-gen golf game.

00:10:15.560 --> 00:10:16.440

Phil: Absolutely horrible.

00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:21.340

Phil: I played Links on the original Xbox, and it had better graphics.

00:10:21.920 --> 00:10:25.700

Phil: And besides that, it requires online only.

00:10:27.020 --> 00:10:28.280

Tom: Well, it is a modern game.

00:10:28.420 --> 00:10:30.020

Phil: Yeah, but it's a Switch.

00:10:30.040 --> 00:10:33.020

Phil: You want to play portably, and the Switch doesn't have a SIM card or anything.

00:10:33.040 --> 00:10:40.700

Phil: And then the career mode was limited, extremely limited to basically a training session.

00:10:41.760 --> 00:10:43.120

Phil: It was just absolutely terrible.

00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:43.880

Phil: I sold it back.

00:10:43.880 --> 00:10:46.800

Phil: I think I sold it back on eBay for like 20 bucks.

00:10:47.300 --> 00:10:51.520

Phil: So I would have been better off doing your Noah's Ark experience at McDonald's.

00:10:52.160 --> 00:10:53.060

Tom: I think you would have.

00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:58.040

Tom: And there is actually one last thing that I have to do with this chicken and cheese burger.

00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:02.800

Tom: And that is make use of the sweet and sour sauce.

00:11:03.620 --> 00:11:06.740

Tom: And dip the burger in the sweet and sour sauce.

00:11:07.560 --> 00:11:12.120

Tom: And the area which I will dip in will contain all the components of the burger.

00:11:12.300 --> 00:11:18.680

Tom: The half a slice of cheese, the bacon, the cheese sauce, the McChicken and the bun.

00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:24.320

Phil: And for our English as a second language listeners, we will use the word agglomeration.

00:11:24.520 --> 00:11:25.520

Phil: You can go look that up.

00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:29.020

Phil: What Tom is doing is an agglomeration.

00:11:35.479 --> 00:11:37.439

Phil: Hopefully, there's a defibrillator nearby.

00:11:38.479 --> 00:11:40.959

Phil: Otherwise, it's gonna be the shortest episode we've ever recorded.

00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:43.299

Tom: I have to say that works quite well.

00:11:44.259 --> 00:11:59.479

Tom: Again, with most McDonald's burgers in general, the addition of flavors of things like sauces as opposed to meat or cheese or the bun, usually is a great addition.

00:11:59.599 --> 00:12:07.379

Tom: And you do end, the first thing you note is the, I wouldn't say sourness of the sauce, but the sweetness.

00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:08.879

Tom: It is very sugary sauce.

00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:16.379

Tom: And as you were chewing and that sort of melts away, you end up getting a little bit of the taste of the bacon.

00:12:17.139 --> 00:12:31.419

Tom: And the aftertaste at the end is sort of a combination of the pepperiness of the coating of the patty, the sweet sort of saltiness of the bacon combined with the sauce.

00:12:31.439 --> 00:12:34.279

Tom: It's almost like maple syrup on bacon.

00:12:35.059 --> 00:12:39.719

Tom: So I do think that that is a worthy addition to the burger.

00:12:40.119 --> 00:12:44.299

Phil: Too bad they couldn't come up with a better name though, like McPlant.

00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:47.899

Phil: Vegan food is full of these great names.

00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.379

Phil: Like there's a fake bacon called Faken.

00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:51.819

Tom: Faken Bacon.

00:12:51.979 --> 00:12:52.779

Phil: Faken Bacon.

00:12:53.199 --> 00:12:56.439

Phil: You've got chili non-carn.

00:12:57.619 --> 00:12:59.259

Phil: You know, there's plenty of examples of that.

00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:16.979

Phil: I've got to say, as a long time vegan, I'm feeling my culture's being appropriated because I went to a little small country town the other day at a petrol station and they were advertising a vegan drumstick ice cream, which I think you've reviewed on the show before.

00:13:17.299 --> 00:13:18.079

Tom: I believe I have.

00:13:18.179 --> 00:13:22.119

Phil: They were advertising their eight different varieties of vegan meat pies.

00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:33.119

Phil: And then they had a meal deal that had the two things with an alcohol-free Heineken for $20.

00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:37.879

Tom: Is alcohol-free items some form of veganism I'm aware of?

00:13:37.899 --> 00:13:38.519

Phil: Well, it's not.

00:13:38.539 --> 00:13:40.999

Phil: It's just they're taking all this fakeness to an extreme.

00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:49.039

Phil: I mean, you could eat your fake vegan meat pie, have your fake vegan drumstick, wash it down with a fake Heineken.

00:13:49.979 --> 00:13:51.979

Phil: And Heineken's a bad enough beer to start with.

00:13:53.059 --> 00:13:55.279

Phil: But it's like, you know, this is a small country town.

00:13:55.659 --> 00:13:59.659

Phil: It used to be, to be a vegan used to be a lot of sacrifice, man.

00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:04.159

Phil: It used to mean making your own tofu, buying soybeans, you know.

00:14:05.319 --> 00:14:06.279

Phil: Growing dreads.

00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:07.539

Phil: It took a lot of work.

00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:14.699

Phil: And now, you know, you can just become a vegan and eat out of a gas station.

00:14:15.499 --> 00:14:18.319

Phil: Or go to a McDonald's, I guess, where they've got the McPlant.

00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:21.559

Tom: I'm looking forward to Barnaby Joyce growing some dreadlocks.

00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:25.199

Phil: All right.

00:14:25.219 --> 00:14:28.079

Phil: Well, is that the rest of the ASMR?

00:14:28.099 --> 00:14:29.739

Phil: Is that the end of the ASMR section?

00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.259

Tom: We may return to the cheeseburger later on.

00:14:32.319 --> 00:14:43.679

Tom: But this whole preamble was in fact part of I promised that we would have to return to your totally absurd statement that Chinese soft power is identical to American.

00:14:44.899 --> 00:14:52.659

Tom: And I think that I have in my meal proven the just total absurdity of that statement.

00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:54.679

Tom: And I think I can rest my case there.

00:14:54.679 --> 00:15:00.539

Phil: Well, I could just as easily go to a Chinese restaurant and eat some Mugu Gai Pan next episode.

00:15:02.179 --> 00:15:04.179

Tom: But you couldn't go to a Chinese McDonald's.

00:15:04.779 --> 00:15:05.399

Phil: That's true.

00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.079

Phil: I couldn't.

00:15:07.119 --> 00:15:07.599

Phil: All right.

00:15:07.999 --> 00:15:09.159

Phil: So what are we going to talk about?

00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:13.219

Phil: I think probably the number one story right now is Steamdeck.

00:15:13.699 --> 00:15:16.739

Phil: Steam has had a few forays into hardware.

00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:17.939

Phil: Do we wish to name them here?

00:15:19.339 --> 00:15:21.459

Phil: They had the steam controller.

00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:23.559

Tom: There's the steam box.

00:15:23.579 --> 00:15:24.059

Phil: Fail.

00:15:24.339 --> 00:15:24.639

Phil: Right.

00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:25.419

Tom: Yep.

00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:26.579

Tom: Was there anything else?

00:15:27.179 --> 00:15:34.719

Phil: Well, they've they've obviously had a very successful release with the with their VR gear, their partnership with HTC.

00:15:35.619 --> 00:15:37.879

Phil: So they've they've righted the ship significantly.

00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:44.979

Phil: I mean, their VR is considered, you know, among the best in that, you know, that range, that price range up there.

00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:55.579

Phil: So they've announced basically what looks like a a Nintendo Switch that basically you can play your Steam library on.

00:15:55.599 --> 00:16:01.499

Phil: And it uses a Linux kernel, I guess, or something, or some sort of translation program called Proton.

00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:03.939

Phil: So it's not a Windows based device.

00:16:04.439 --> 00:16:06.079

Phil: That's kind of intriguing to me.

00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:12.759

Phil: Comes in three different flavors, most of them having to do with memory size and storage.

00:16:13.599 --> 00:16:15.859

Phil: But the graphics are the same on all three models.

00:16:16.319 --> 00:16:21.659

Phil: 64 gig of storage, 256 gig and 512 gig of storage.

00:16:22.319 --> 00:16:26.619

Tom: And we should add that you can install Windows on the device if you so choose.

00:16:26.739 --> 00:16:27.339

Phil: Absolutely.

00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:29.739

Phil: Yep, it's a completely open box.

00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:34.999

Phil: I don't know how you'd go about licensing the Windows that you'd install on a device, but I guess it's really just a PC.

00:16:35.479 --> 00:16:36.979

Phil: So that answers that.

00:16:38.319 --> 00:16:39.259

Phil: Ranging everywhere from...

00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.919

Tom: Obviously, you would license it with a $2 code from eBay.

00:16:42.939 --> 00:16:43.459

Phil: That's right.

00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:51.439

Phil: And pricing, it's $400 US to $650 US, depending on the storage you want.

00:16:51.539 --> 00:16:56.719

Phil: You know, there's other things that come with those tiers, like carrying cases and other things like that.

00:16:58.419 --> 00:17:02.119

Phil: Visually, I mean, from the appearance, it looks very comfortable.

00:17:02.139 --> 00:17:02.839

Phil: It looks good.

00:17:02.859 --> 00:17:03.779

Phil: It looks substantial.

00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.819

Phil: Sounds like a win to me.

00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:11.279

Tom: Well, it is huge when you say it looks substantial.

00:17:11.299 --> 00:17:12.659

Tom: It's 30 centimetres.

00:17:12.899 --> 00:17:16.819

Phil: Yeah, which is not that much bigger than a Switch.

00:17:17.259 --> 00:17:19.979

Phil: You know, it's really not that much bigger than a Switch.

00:17:20.179 --> 00:17:21.319

Phil: And, you know, it's got some...

00:17:21.339 --> 00:17:22.959

Tom: Isn't a Switch around 20 centimetres?

00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:24.399

Phil: No, no, no.

00:17:24.679 --> 00:17:25.119

Phil: Oh, no.

00:17:25.939 --> 00:17:26.479

Phil: No, no, no.

00:17:26.539 --> 00:17:30.779

Phil: I don't know how big it is, but it's, you know, it's comparable.

00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.479

Phil: It's not like you're going to be holding this thing and it's like, oh, my God, how big is this, you know?

00:17:36.239 --> 00:17:42.019

Phil: Both of them have a 7-inch screen, if that sort of gives you ideas to the size of the total console.

00:17:44.219 --> 00:17:48.379

Phil: But, and obviously it doesn't have removable Joy-Cons on the side.

00:17:48.499 --> 00:17:49.159

Phil: They're fixed.

00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:56.779

Phil: So just as the Switch kind of copied the Nvidia Shield and is powered by Nvidia, this is kind of the PC version.

00:17:57.099 --> 00:18:00.879

Phil: Again, it's kind of a return basically or continuation of that kind of technology.

00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:03.599

Phil: Looks very attractive to me.

00:18:03.619 --> 00:18:05.739

Phil: It's unfortunately not available in our region.

00:18:05.999 --> 00:18:07.739

Phil: And I blame the ACCC for that.

00:18:08.719 --> 00:18:10.559

Tom: And I will have to correct you there.

00:18:10.579 --> 00:18:15.639

Tom: The Switch Lite, which I assume is the same dimensions.

00:18:15.679 --> 00:18:16.239

Phil: Yeah.

00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:18.079

Tom: So that's, is it actually smaller?

00:18:18.099 --> 00:18:20.279

Phil: I think it is smaller than the main one.

00:18:20.779 --> 00:18:29.019

Tom: I thought the Lite naming was from the fact that it does not have a dock.

00:18:29.639 --> 00:18:31.159

Tom: As opposed to it being smaller.

00:18:31.179 --> 00:18:31.939

Phil: It didn't have a dock.

00:18:32.099 --> 00:18:35.259

Phil: The Joy-Cons aren't removable and it was slightly cheaper.

00:18:37.939 --> 00:18:39.819

Phil: Though it had better storage and battery life.

00:18:40.379 --> 00:18:40.799

Tom: I see.

00:18:41.219 --> 00:18:48.699

Tom: It is in fact just over one inch shorter in the width than the Switch.

00:18:48.719 --> 00:18:51.199

Tom: So how many centimeters is an inch?

00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:52.239

Phil: 12 inches.

00:18:52.719 --> 00:18:54.059

Phil: So 12 inches is...

00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:54.659

Phil: Oh, I'm sorry.

00:18:54.679 --> 00:18:57.219

Phil: An inch is two and a half centimeters.

00:18:57.239 --> 00:18:58.839

Phil: 12 inches is 30 centimeters.

00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:09.339

Tom: So the Switch is 9.4 inches, which is around, I believe, 23 centimeters?

00:19:10.199 --> 00:19:13.479

Phil: About 24 centimeters, yeah.

00:19:13.499 --> 00:19:16.939

Tom: So 6 centimeters is a reasonable increase in size.

00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:21.939

Phil: Yeah, yeah, that's still less than my little finger.

00:19:22.899 --> 00:19:24.179

Tom: And we know what that implies.

00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:28.379

Tom: You have a very long middle finger, obviously.

00:19:28.399 --> 00:19:29.119

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

00:19:29.159 --> 00:19:30.019

Phil: A very long one.

00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:31.519

Phil: I'm using both of them right now, actually.

00:19:31.539 --> 00:19:37.839

Tom: Which is very lucky for you because it compensates for your ordinary problems elsewhere.

00:19:37.939 --> 00:19:38.799

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

00:19:39.739 --> 00:19:41.499

Phil: Look, this is a very compelling thing to me.

00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:42.979

Phil: I would have pre-ordered one yesterday.

00:19:43.179 --> 00:19:44.239

Phil: Like I said, I blame the ACCC.

00:19:44.719 --> 00:19:50.319

Phil: They successfully sued Steam for their return policies breaking Australian law.

00:19:51.419 --> 00:19:54.279

Phil: You can look up that story at gameunder.net.

00:19:55.299 --> 00:20:02.759

Tom: I don't know if you really can blame them though because they also did not really do a release for the Steam Controller either.

00:20:04.259 --> 00:20:05.399

Tom: Nor the...

00:20:05.979 --> 00:20:06.639

Phil: Steam Link.

00:20:06.919 --> 00:20:07.639

Tom: Steam Link.

00:20:07.659 --> 00:20:07.939

Phil: Yeah.

00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:12.539

Tom: And I don't think the VAL index has officially been released in Australia either.

00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:15.999

Tom: So I think this is entirely on Valve.

00:20:16.179 --> 00:20:16.619

Phil: Okay.

00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:19.879

Phil: Which I'm happy to throw under the bus.

00:20:19.899 --> 00:20:20.819

Phil: They haven't been a great company.

00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:26.279

Phil: But I tell you what, this would make me Steam loyal in terms of my PC purchases.

00:20:28.099 --> 00:20:39.119

Phil: Because with the prospect of being able to play them portably, or on my TV, because it is going to have a dock at some time in the future.

00:20:39.499 --> 00:20:45.479

Phil: Or they said if you don't want to wait for our dock, you can just use USB-C and HDMI and do it yourself.

00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:50.519

Phil: So, would you lukewarm about this?

00:20:50.539 --> 00:20:52.359

Phil: Would you get this thing?

00:20:53.619 --> 00:21:12.699

Tom: Well, given that I have a computer, it's relatively redundant to me because there is of course the relatively unusable Steam Link functionality that you can use on any device, like an iPad or whatever else.

00:21:14.159 --> 00:21:25.479

Tom: And if I were to be getting a similar console to that, the Switch would obviously be the first choice by far due to the Nintendo games on it.

00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:30.159

Phil: And Sky, also on Switch, in HD.

00:21:30.999 --> 00:21:31.799

Tom: It is indeed.

00:21:32.219 --> 00:21:34.059

Tom: And I believe you have even played it.

00:21:34.159 --> 00:21:34.659

Phil: Yeah, I have.

00:21:36.379 --> 00:21:41.439

Tom: We are yet to play together, though, because you have failed to work out how to add me.

00:21:41.679 --> 00:21:42.639

Phil: I have failed to...

00:21:43.159 --> 00:22:00.939

Phil: Well, basically, it's asking me for my Nintendo username and password, which basically shoots me in the foot every time I try to buy anything on the Nintendo Switch as well, because I can't remember it, so every time I have to do it, I have to change my password, which means going to the PC, and it's a big old rig in my roll.

00:22:02.059 --> 00:22:07.219

Tom: Did you look in settings to see if there was an option to create a link for people to add you?

00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:13.479

Tom: Because I don't think you need to have linked your account to your Sky account before you can do that.

00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:32.639

Phil: Because what I did was I also downloaded it on my Android phone, and tried to do something with that as well, because the Switch model does give you a QR code, as they're now called, to scan from your Android device so that you can link your account.

00:22:32.659 --> 00:22:33.619

Phil: So that's what I'm trying to do.

00:22:33.639 --> 00:22:46.559

Phil: I'm trying to link the Android Sky instance with my Switch one, so that when I am a more active player and I'm playing it, it's my experience I can build while I'm on the go as well.

00:22:46.879 --> 00:22:54.239

Tom: And you should be able to easily make a barcode for other people to add you on the Android phone.

00:22:55.779 --> 00:22:56.119

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:22:56.139 --> 00:22:57.079

Phil: Well, I will figure it out.

00:22:57.099 --> 00:22:59.219

Phil: I'll figure it out this week, no doubt.

00:23:00.579 --> 00:23:03.299

Phil: Do we want to talk about my impressions of Sky right now?

00:23:03.739 --> 00:23:04.579

Phil: Would make sense, I guess.

00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:05.039

Tom: Surely we do.

00:23:05.099 --> 00:23:05.439

Tom: Yeah.

00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:15.299

Tom: But first, I will take a bite of this cheeseburger the moment everyone has been waiting for with baited breath.

00:23:16.739 --> 00:23:32.679

Tom: And I should give my final thoughts on the chicken cheeseburger as many of you do not comment on, I think, the arguably the most important factors of a meal, particularly fast food like this.

00:23:32.899 --> 00:23:37.179

Tom: And that was indeed actually surprisingly filling.

00:23:37.379 --> 00:23:43.499

Tom: I do not feel any need to eat this cheeseburger after having eaten that, but I'm going to anyway.

00:23:44.439 --> 00:23:51.879

Tom: And being so high in fat and sugar and salt, it has also given me an immediate energy boost.

00:23:52.399 --> 00:23:56.199

Tom: And I will be spending that energy on eating this cheeseburger.

00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:04.559

Tom: But overall, I would say that is a pretty successful chicken burger, especially for McDonald's.

00:24:04.719 --> 00:24:12.199

Tom: And what you would be looking for, for a $5 burger to keep you going throughout the day.

00:24:13.159 --> 00:24:16.739

Phil: So again, homeless people, you need to just get together $5 a day.

00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:17.839

Phil: Come on, how hard is it?

00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:20.359

Tom: Exactly.

00:24:21.139 --> 00:24:22.879

Phil: You know, just go to McDonald's.

00:24:23.879 --> 00:24:24.779

Tom: Problem solved.

00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:25.639

Phil: You'll be loving it.

00:24:27.339 --> 00:24:28.739

Phil: It's good that we finally got a sponsor.

00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:29.459

Phil: I've got to say that.

00:24:30.679 --> 00:24:32.879

Phil: I'm not quite sure the ASMR is worth it though.

00:24:34.479 --> 00:24:35.299

Tom: So here we go.

00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:42.939

Tom: The Bacon Cheese Extra Sauce and Extra Pickle Burger.

00:24:56.117 --> 00:25:06.457

Tom: And to their credit, there is essentially an entire layer of pickles across the full breadth of the patty and cheese.

00:25:06.497 --> 00:25:10.117

Phil: And by pickles, you mean like the sliced gherkins, right?

00:25:10.137 --> 00:25:12.337

Phil: Not pickled, like chopped up pickle relish?

00:25:13.357 --> 00:25:17.137

Tom: Correct, this isn't kimchi, unfortunately.

00:25:17.997 --> 00:25:18.877

Tom: That would be interesting.

00:25:19.637 --> 00:25:30.277

Tom: But yes, the bacon, due to the copious amount of sauce, as well as the pickles, I don't think you can really taste it that much.

00:25:32.277 --> 00:25:34.217

Tom: Though it is there in the aftertaste.

00:25:35.157 --> 00:25:55.117

Tom: And I would recommend always adding extra sauce to a cheeseburger, because otherwise you are likely to end up with a tiny dollop of mustard in the centre of the top bun, and maybe a streak of ketchup across the middle.

00:25:56.177 --> 00:26:00.197

Tom: So I would say that's another successful McDonald's item today.

00:26:00.217 --> 00:26:06.937

Phil: Not very successful, because when I release my next Brickpot album, I'm gonna call it There in the Aftertaste.

00:26:08.077 --> 00:26:09.017

Phil: That's wonderful.

00:26:10.537 --> 00:26:11.257

Phil: That's great.

00:26:11.277 --> 00:26:15.297

Phil: That's gonna be my Oasis song type album, There in the Aftertaste.

00:26:15.917 --> 00:26:17.077

Tom: I'm looking forward to it.

00:26:17.097 --> 00:26:18.837

Tom: That will be our new theme song, I hope.

00:26:18.857 --> 00:26:19.877

Phil: Yeah, could be.

00:26:20.977 --> 00:26:23.797

Tom: Could also be the title of this episode.

00:26:23.817 --> 00:26:24.397

Phil: Yeah, could be.

00:26:24.457 --> 00:26:24.977

Phil: Could be.

00:26:26.497 --> 00:26:28.577

Phil: Look, I've been playing my Switch a lot.

00:26:28.717 --> 00:26:34.337

Phil: I've been playing, just back to children, well, that's what it's called, right?

00:26:34.357 --> 00:26:37.057

Phil: Sky Children of Light.

00:26:37.077 --> 00:26:41.737

Phil: The game by That Game Company, Genova Chens Endeavor.

00:26:41.797 --> 00:26:53.157

Phil: And as we talked about, I guess it hasn't quite been two years that since this game, Sky Children of Light, came out on first iPhone and then Android.

00:26:54.017 --> 00:26:54.317

Phil: And now-

00:26:54.337 --> 00:27:02.217

Tom: I think it may just have got to two years because there is, I believe, currently a birthday celebration going on in game.

00:27:02.357 --> 00:27:05.457

Phil: Okay, and some sort of new season as well has been advertised.

00:27:05.917 --> 00:27:07.217

Tom: Yes, the Little Prince.

00:27:07.557 --> 00:27:11.357

Phil: Yeah, yeah, so it's, well, we've got to say it's been released on Switch.

00:27:11.377 --> 00:27:14.117

Phil: And I've been talking about how I can't wait for it to be released on Switch.

00:27:14.497 --> 00:27:19.097

Phil: So when Tom called me when this was first announced about 1 a.m.

00:27:19.117 --> 00:27:21.997

Phil: in the morning and said, hey, it's being released on Switch.

00:27:22.037 --> 00:27:24.537

Phil: I really appreciated getting that information.

00:27:25.517 --> 00:27:27.057

Phil: And I told him that I will be waiting.

00:27:27.317 --> 00:27:29.617

Phil: I will go get a physical copy because that's how I roll.

00:27:29.697 --> 00:27:31.117

Phil: I want a physical copy of the game.

00:27:32.037 --> 00:27:34.337

Phil: And he said, yeah, not going to happen probably.

00:27:35.677 --> 00:27:42.157

Phil: When I found out that it was free to play, obviously there's not going to be a physical copy.

00:27:42.357 --> 00:27:43.637

Phil: Maybe they will release one.

00:27:43.917 --> 00:27:46.197

Phil: They do that sometimes down here in Australia.

00:27:46.197 --> 00:27:51.337

Tom: But you can buy a $120 umbrella that is based on an umbrella in the game.

00:27:52.257 --> 00:27:53.677

Phil: Is it an umbrella or a parasol?

00:27:54.717 --> 00:27:55.937

Tom: It is an umbrella.

00:27:57.357 --> 00:27:59.137

Phil: So it's free to play.

00:27:59.597 --> 00:28:01.057

Phil: And so I downloaded it.

00:28:01.257 --> 00:28:03.637

Phil: It was quite a reasonable download.

00:28:03.657 --> 00:28:04.557

Phil: I'm happy to report.

00:28:04.937 --> 00:28:09.497

Phil: And one of the outstanding things about this Switch release is that it is in HD.

00:28:09.957 --> 00:28:12.697

Phil: So it looks absolutely beautiful when you dock the Switch.

00:28:13.737 --> 00:28:16.097

Phil: Has wonderful frame rate.

00:28:16.277 --> 00:28:17.957

Phil: I couldn't complain about that at all.

00:28:18.557 --> 00:28:26.737

Phil: And it is like it has the appearance of a, of not a big budget game, but a well published game.

00:28:26.797 --> 00:28:32.657

Phil: Like a game that's got a lot of thought put into it in terms of its craftsmanship.

00:28:33.117 --> 00:28:41.157

Phil: If you didn't know, you would think it was something that that game company had made for, you know, Sony, when it was under Sony's patronage.

00:28:42.877 --> 00:28:48.977

Tom: It's very much like I would say an indie, PS3 era look to it.

00:28:49.057 --> 00:28:49.757

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:28:49.777 --> 00:28:52.337

Phil: And in fact, you know, there's a lot in the game.

00:28:52.357 --> 00:29:01.937

Phil: The first impression of the game is that this is a very much a lot like Journey in its aesthetic and its tone.

00:29:02.837 --> 00:29:08.677

Phil: And many of the game play elements like, you know, surfing on the sand, you know, is there.

00:29:08.697 --> 00:29:17.857

Phil: And it's obviously also incorporated elements of flight that was a feature of the earlier games like Flow and Flower more particularly.

00:29:19.657 --> 00:29:22.437

Tom: Well, flight was also in Journey as well.

00:29:22.617 --> 00:29:23.977

Phil: Okay, I'd forgotten that.

00:29:24.637 --> 00:29:30.137

Tom: Yes, but not to the same degree as in Sky at all.

00:29:30.817 --> 00:29:35.457

Tom: And with a greater focus on gliding than flying, although it was indeed possible to fly.

00:29:36.177 --> 00:29:46.377

Phil: I think if you look at the body of work that that game company has put together, the one thing that is very evident is that they ascribe to incrementalism.

00:29:47.217 --> 00:29:53.017

Phil: Everything they make builds on the next thing that they make that builds up to the next thing that they make.

00:29:53.197 --> 00:29:58.617

Phil: And this is very much evolution of Journey.

00:29:58.697 --> 00:30:03.977

Phil: Journey was very limited in terms of its online component.

00:30:04.897 --> 00:30:12.817

Phil: The thing that was quite revolutionary about that was that you could be playing and not really know that the other party was online.

00:30:14.457 --> 00:30:20.637

Phil: So I was very impressed with the game throughout.

00:30:20.657 --> 00:30:26.117

Phil: There's no but coming here.

00:30:26.137 --> 00:30:38.697

Phil: Not a lot of the game is explained, and obviously, because it doesn't come with an instruction manual, because nothing comes with an instruction manual, there's not a lot of hand holding in terms of getting you up to speed as to what to do.

00:30:39.137 --> 00:30:45.197

Phil: Though things become very clear, like you see a candle, so you just keep pressing buttons until you figure out how to light it.

00:30:46.297 --> 00:30:47.237

Phil: And that does something.

00:30:47.477 --> 00:30:50.217

Phil: That you're releasing the spirits of children, I believe.

00:30:51.937 --> 00:30:54.897

Phil: Of a long gone civilisation.

00:30:55.657 --> 00:31:00.037

Tom: Well, you eventually do that to begin with, you're reliving their memories, I believe.

00:31:00.777 --> 00:31:01.117

Phil: Yes.

00:31:01.737 --> 00:31:05.157

Tom: And you do then release them at the end of the level though, that is correct.

00:31:05.177 --> 00:31:05.417

Phil: Right.

00:31:05.437 --> 00:31:05.657

Tom: Yes.

00:31:06.457 --> 00:31:15.297

Phil: The stages, it basically is like a 3D platformer in that you're exploring a very large 3D environment and finding things.

00:31:15.477 --> 00:31:18.337

Phil: So I wouldn't say it's a collectathon.

00:31:18.517 --> 00:31:22.977

Phil: It's not as bad as say Donkey Kong 64, for example.

00:31:23.897 --> 00:31:30.457

Phil: But to someone who's looking for the game in the game, you know, you're looking at, okay, well, what am I doing?

00:31:30.637 --> 00:31:37.417

Phil: And just as in Journey, they'll use the camera to indicate the direction that you're supposed to be going at the very start.

00:31:38.377 --> 00:31:43.017

Phil: And then from there on, you basically go your own way to figure it out.

00:31:43.037 --> 00:31:45.697

Phil: And as you go, you realize, oh, I can do this, I can do that.

00:31:45.697 --> 00:31:50.557

Phil: They give you these micro stories, I'd say, not really side stories or side missions.

00:31:50.577 --> 00:31:52.597

Phil: They're like these very small-

00:31:52.617 --> 00:31:53.297

Tom: Little vignettes.

00:31:53.317 --> 00:31:54.377

Phil: Yes, exactly.

00:31:56.437 --> 00:32:05.977

Phil: And it does harken a little bit back to The Last Guardian, the work of the fellow who did Ico.

00:32:07.217 --> 00:32:10.357

Phil: You can see the influence of that in this game.

00:32:10.377 --> 00:32:11.577

Tom: I think of Ico as well.

00:32:12.317 --> 00:32:13.317

Phil: Yeah, very much.

00:32:13.717 --> 00:32:14.777

Phil: And you can see the influences there.

00:32:14.797 --> 00:32:20.457

Tom: And earlier fan art for it, there was also a lot of influence of Shadow of the Colossus.

00:32:21.377 --> 00:32:31.957

Tom: And in one of the later levels and the finale level, you can certainly see that that still carried over a little bit into the final game as well.

00:32:33.017 --> 00:32:47.077

Phil: I'd say that the best part of the game is its tone because there's a lightness in play, but it's balanced by a solemnity of the environment and what you're doing.

00:32:49.197 --> 00:32:58.077

Phil: There seem, I mean, it's almost funereal in terms of your role in the environment, and you do seem very alone.

00:32:58.297 --> 00:33:03.557

Phil: And that's where kind of the twist comes in is because you're not alone.

00:33:03.957 --> 00:33:10.537

Phil: So, you know, this is an MMO in all forms.

00:33:12.977 --> 00:33:14.017

Phil: In terms of the...

00:33:14.257 --> 00:33:16.317

Tom: Have you made any friends in the game yet?

00:33:16.337 --> 00:33:19.857

Phil: Well, I'll get to that, but I just want to dwell for a moment on the lightness of it.

00:33:19.917 --> 00:33:28.997

Phil: And the lightness is attributed not only to, well, the use of light, which is wonderful in the graphics, but also the controls.

00:33:29.217 --> 00:33:31.377

Phil: I mean, the controls are top notch.

00:33:31.377 --> 00:33:37.157

Phil: They're first party Nintendo, first party Sony, tight.

00:33:37.497 --> 00:33:40.217

Phil: Like, it's just really well done.

00:33:40.257 --> 00:33:52.457

Phil: Every movement that you do, if you are walking in a direction and then you immediately want to turn in the other direction, the animation is great because it doesn't just turn you around.

00:33:52.577 --> 00:33:59.257

Phil: It's almost got this leaning tower kind of physics to the character's body and the way that he moves.

00:33:59.277 --> 00:34:01.557

Phil: It just seems so natural and real.

00:34:03.237 --> 00:34:07.177

Phil: And as I said, just the controls are so tight in a good positive way.

00:34:07.777 --> 00:34:10.617

Phil: They do everything that you think should be...

00:34:12.117 --> 00:34:21.117

Phil: Everything works the way that you would expect it should, except for the flight, but it fortunately does give you the ability to invert.

00:34:21.857 --> 00:34:24.617

Phil: So, and the controls...

00:34:24.637 --> 00:34:27.137

Tom: You mean in terms of what direction you're turning?

00:34:29.437 --> 00:34:31.997

Phil: I'm from the old school in terms of flight sims.

00:34:32.337 --> 00:34:36.397

Phil: If you push up on a controller, that should make you go down in flight.

00:34:36.457 --> 00:34:38.657

Phil: If you pull back on a controller, you should go up.

00:34:38.677 --> 00:34:44.697

Phil: So that's the only thing that I changed in the customizable controls, which I was very, very glad to see.

00:34:44.717 --> 00:34:51.357

Phil: You can change the camera and all of the controls on an XY basis or an inverted basis.

00:34:51.377 --> 00:34:53.317

Phil: So yeah, I was very happy with that.

00:34:53.337 --> 00:34:53.517

Phil: Now...

00:34:55.357 --> 00:35:12.997

Tom: Just on the controls, it's interesting you should be so impressed by them because a lot of the people on the game I know who are now trying the Switch version, about, I would say, 75% of them have found the controls a little bit more awkward than the phone controls.

00:35:13.277 --> 00:35:15.317

Phil: Oh, I could not imagine playing this on the phone.

00:35:15.337 --> 00:35:20.337

Phil: Now, I did play it on the phone, and it was terrible to me.

00:35:20.337 --> 00:35:20.937

Phil: It was shocking.

00:35:21.737 --> 00:35:25.497

Tom: Did you have the two finger setting on rather than one?

00:35:25.557 --> 00:35:25.837

Phil: No.

00:35:26.657 --> 00:35:28.697

Tom: Okay, well then it is essentially unplayable.

00:35:29.777 --> 00:35:34.657

Tom: But you need it to essentially simulate two analogue sticks for it to work.

00:35:34.897 --> 00:35:37.017

Phil: Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

00:35:37.217 --> 00:35:37.577

Tom: Yes.

00:35:38.097 --> 00:35:49.417

Phil: And, you know, I found it wonderful, absolutely wonderful on the Switch, and I played it both in the handheld mode and docked with a pro controller, because, you know, I am a professional gamer.

00:35:50.897 --> 00:35:52.777

Phil: They don't just sell those at stores, you know.

00:35:54.257 --> 00:35:57.797

Phil: And the graphics, you know, the control was great on both.

00:35:58.117 --> 00:36:01.877

Phil: So as a free game, thoroughly recommended.

00:36:03.197 --> 00:36:15.137

Phil: As the game is a challenging one to kind of understand as to what it is that you're supposed to be doing, that's kind of the fun of the game at the start.

00:36:15.417 --> 00:36:17.217

Phil: The fun of the game is finding the game.

00:36:17.857 --> 00:36:18.117

Tom: Yep.

00:36:18.577 --> 00:36:24.857

Phil: And that sense of wonder that, you know, people experience with Zelda Breath of the Wild on the Switch.

00:36:26.077 --> 00:36:29.717

Phil: Obviously, there is a much more obvious thing as what you should be doing.

00:36:29.737 --> 00:36:32.497

Phil: You know, you have a sword, you have a shield and all that sort of thing.

00:36:34.217 --> 00:36:38.797

Phil: The difficulty that I had with this was the other players.

00:36:39.557 --> 00:36:46.377

Phil: So other players will appear in a transparent ghost-like fashion until you make contact with them.

00:36:47.077 --> 00:36:58.677

Phil: And maybe because I was playing on the first day of the Switch, it seemed to be inundated with people who didn't, who seemed to be a couple of steps behind me in terms of knowing what it is that they were doing.

00:37:00.497 --> 00:37:07.857

Phil: Or users from other platforms that had no interest in interacting with noobs.

00:37:08.077 --> 00:37:20.997

Phil: So you'd either go up to someone to make a friend with them, and they either didn't know how to make a friend with you because they'd just started playing on the Switch, or they'd just basically go, no, you know, no, I'm not, you know, go away sort of thing.

00:37:21.017 --> 00:37:23.257

Phil: They'd be gesturing, no, go away, I don't want a friend.

00:37:24.937 --> 00:37:55.117

Phil: And I've got to say that's probably the highest jarring, you know, that's why I stopped playing after a few hours of play because I kind of, there was two things, there was that, which you can address in a minute, and then the other was, they take you back to a hub world, and it was really hard for me to determine which lands I had quite beaten and didn't need to go back into and which ones I did need to go into, like which gates or which worlds I had to go into.

00:37:55.137 --> 00:37:58.577

Tom: Well, at the beginning, aren't, don't you unlock them successively?

00:37:59.277 --> 00:38:00.857

Phil: No, no, they, it's...

00:38:00.877 --> 00:38:02.737

Tom: So they're all open to begin with.

00:38:03.017 --> 00:38:06.897

Phil: I don't know if they're all open, but let's just say there's four or five that are open to me right now.

00:38:07.817 --> 00:38:09.257

Phil: And I would have much...

00:38:09.277 --> 00:38:12.097

Tom: Because there have been many changes to it over the years.

00:38:12.297 --> 00:38:18.577

Phil: Yeah, I would have much preferred to have been a linear progression until I was really comfortable with what I was doing.

00:38:19.137 --> 00:38:20.877

Tom: That's how it was when I started playing.

00:38:20.897 --> 00:38:22.617

Phil: Yeah, because I found myself...

00:38:22.857 --> 00:38:34.257

Tom: In addition to that, another change there which will alter your experience of first playing is originally the people, other players were already lit up.

00:38:34.377 --> 00:38:41.157

Tom: You could see what they actually looked like to begin with without having to light their candle as you need to do now.

00:38:41.937 --> 00:38:48.697

Tom: So, it was quite a different beginner experience when the game was first released.

00:38:48.917 --> 00:38:50.897

Phil: Yep, yep.

00:38:50.917 --> 00:38:55.557

Phil: But that's pretty much all I have to say about this game.

00:38:56.577 --> 00:39:05.557

Phil: At this point, I've got to figure out how to tie my two accounts together and then how to get a friend, like yourself, to play with.

00:39:07.077 --> 00:39:13.497

Phil: I don't really understand the etiquette of the friendship either and that's probably another issue.

00:39:13.557 --> 00:39:15.857

Phil: Like, am I supposed to be friending everyone I see?

00:39:16.897 --> 00:39:19.377

Tom: No, you can if you want.

00:39:19.397 --> 00:39:19.877

Tom: Try that.

00:39:20.357 --> 00:39:22.937

Tom: And a lot of new players do do that.

00:39:23.597 --> 00:39:30.297

Tom: And usually experienced players either do not mind or if they do, they'll just simply ignore you.

00:39:31.477 --> 00:39:41.977

Tom: So I don't think that that would cause too many problems except that it uses in-game currency, which as you continue will become more important, so you may not want to do that.

00:39:44.777 --> 00:39:57.817

Tom: But the general etiquette would be just simply if someone, if you want to go up to someone, go up to them, light their candle and just follow them around the level helping them out in whatever they're doing.

00:39:58.877 --> 00:40:01.597

Tom: And after that, you could then add them, I would suggest.

00:40:02.217 --> 00:40:02.477

Phil: Yep.

00:40:03.257 --> 00:40:03.497

Phil: Yep.

00:40:04.197 --> 00:40:09.537

Phil: So again, it's always difficult when you have a pre-existing game come to a new platform.

00:40:10.197 --> 00:40:11.057

Phil: Yep.

00:40:11.417 --> 00:40:12.337

Phil: In the different ranges.

00:40:12.357 --> 00:40:18.237

Phil: So what has the introduction of the Switch platform meant for long-term players of the game?

00:40:18.837 --> 00:40:26.077

Tom: Well, just before that, I have to say it's also quite interesting that you have had people gesturing to you to go away.

00:40:26.977 --> 00:40:28.837

Tom: That's, I think, an impressive achievement.

00:40:32.017 --> 00:40:33.317

Tom: I wouldn't say that would be normal.

00:40:34.657 --> 00:40:36.297

Phil: But I haven't done anything offensive.

00:40:37.337 --> 00:40:38.157

Tom: Maybe you have.

00:40:38.197 --> 00:40:39.097

Tom: Maybe you have.

00:40:41.237 --> 00:40:41.657

Phil: All right.

00:40:41.897 --> 00:40:47.077

Phil: Well, I mean, so tell me about what's the community reaction been to all these noobs washing in?

00:40:47.097 --> 00:40:47.557

Tom: Yes, yes.

00:40:47.797 --> 00:41:00.717

Tom: Well, there hasn't really been any sort of reaction to noobs washing in, because that has happened already when it was released on Android and also when it was released officially on the Chinese market.

00:41:01.677 --> 00:41:05.637

Tom: And there were already a huge number of Chinese players before that, though, of course.

00:41:07.617 --> 00:41:20.457

Tom: But I think the main reaction of people has just simply been a jealousy that they cannot get the Switch exclusive items, I would say.

00:41:20.877 --> 00:41:20.997

Tom: Yeah.

00:41:23.897 --> 00:41:35.257

Tom: Which beta players, such as myself, did get on the Android and iOS anyway, but only on the actual beta servers rather than the main game.

00:41:35.437 --> 00:41:38.757

Phil: Did you have any idea what the wider reception to this game has been?

00:41:38.957 --> 00:41:46.457

Phil: I've only heard one outlet talk about it, and they basically talked about it the same way I talked about it, which was respectfully, but a little bit confused.

00:41:47.517 --> 00:42:12.277

Tom: Yep, I think that probably is the general reaction to it, and then you sometimes get on larger outlets stuff written by people who have played it a lot and are very much enjoying it, but the general press reaction has been basically, this looks like Journey, how wonderful, and then that's it.

00:42:12.357 --> 00:42:14.177

Phil: If you have nothing else to say about...

00:42:15.717 --> 00:42:18.157

Tom: Well, we do have to talk about the Little Prince season.

00:42:18.177 --> 00:42:18.797

Phil: Okay, yep.

00:42:19.457 --> 00:42:27.197

Tom: Which is, I would say, probably the best season since the...

00:42:28.577 --> 00:42:29.077

Phil: Beatles?

00:42:30.137 --> 00:42:31.417

Tom: No, not since the Beatles.

00:42:31.437 --> 00:42:32.057

Phil: Slice Bread.

00:42:32.857 --> 00:42:34.017

Tom: Not since Slice Bread.

00:42:34.577 --> 00:42:39.637

Tom: Since I think it was maybe the third or fourth season, I'm not entirely sure.

00:42:39.657 --> 00:42:40.817

Phil: How many seasons are they up to?

00:42:41.677 --> 00:42:45.357

Tom: This is like the 10th or 11th or 8th or 9th at least.

00:42:45.377 --> 00:42:45.957

Tom: Jeez.

00:42:46.437 --> 00:42:47.457

Tom: There have been a lot of them.

00:42:47.477 --> 00:42:48.857

Phil: Well, explain what a season is.

00:42:48.877 --> 00:42:50.977

Phil: Is it like an expansion pack or is it just...

00:42:50.997 --> 00:42:59.837

Tom: Yes, a season is basically an expansion pack that introduces a new story line and also a new area to explore as well.

00:43:00.877 --> 00:43:11.697

Tom: And after the first few seasons, which they put quite far apart, they've since started doing the seasons more often, thus why we're up to so many seasons.

00:43:12.097 --> 00:43:22.497

Tom: And the rhythm of release has basically been they will release a season that they put a lot of effort into, then they'll release a full season, then they'll release another season they put a lot of effort into.

00:43:22.517 --> 00:43:24.157

Tom: And this is following that.

00:43:25.697 --> 00:43:27.817

Phil: So they do what we do with this podcast.

00:43:28.297 --> 00:43:32.137

Tom: Correct, except in one of them, they do put in a lot of effort.

00:43:32.177 --> 00:43:33.577

Phil: But keep listening, people.

00:43:33.597 --> 00:43:34.277

Phil: This is the good one.

00:43:34.317 --> 00:43:35.417

Phil: This is the good one.

00:43:36.377 --> 00:43:42.137

Tom: Which reminds me, I have to try dipping the cheeseburger in the sweet and sour sauce.

00:43:42.157 --> 00:43:42.777

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

00:43:42.797 --> 00:43:44.377

Phil: We've given them too much game content.

00:43:44.397 --> 00:43:45.237

Phil: It's time to...

00:43:45.257 --> 00:43:47.317

Tom: So we have to take a short break to do this.

00:43:47.337 --> 00:43:51.377

Phil: Should we talk about religion politics or something like that as well?

00:43:52.517 --> 00:43:56.477

Tom: Well, we were talking about Chinese imperialism earlier, I believe.

00:43:56.497 --> 00:43:56.977

Phil: Yeah, I know.

00:43:56.977 --> 00:43:58.757

Phil: If I said that the Chinese imperialism...

00:43:58.777 --> 00:44:04.037

Tom: And yet again, you failed to come up with a response to my argument.

00:44:04.057 --> 00:44:05.497

Phil: That's because I agree with you.

00:44:05.517 --> 00:44:07.137

Phil: I've had time to come around, man.

00:44:07.137 --> 00:44:07.537

Tom: Excellent.

00:44:07.557 --> 00:44:09.817

Phil: It's been 10 weeks since we recorded or something.

00:44:10.657 --> 00:44:14.257

Tom: And you spent every moment thinking about it and researching the topic.

00:44:14.317 --> 00:44:15.637

Phil: And going, yeah, you know what?

00:44:15.717 --> 00:44:16.557

Phil: Tom is right.

00:44:19.457 --> 00:44:19.977

Tom: Here we go.

00:44:20.557 --> 00:44:22.477

Tom: The moment you've all been waiting for.

00:44:22.497 --> 00:44:29.897

Tom: I was dunking the bacon cheeseburger with extra pickles, mustard and ketchup into the sweet and sour sauce.

00:44:30.377 --> 00:44:31.517

Phil: I thought you'd already done this.

00:44:32.737 --> 00:44:35.137

Tom: No, I did that with the chicken and cheeseburger.

00:44:35.137 --> 00:44:37.817

Phil: It's like a Tadurken is what you're doing here.

00:44:39.157 --> 00:44:40.157

Phil: There's another one to look up.

00:44:43.197 --> 00:44:43.777

Phil: Turducken.

00:44:50.896 --> 00:44:52.296

Tom: Again, I think that works really well.

00:44:52.816 --> 00:45:05.596

Tom: The first effect is, I think through one's associated memories, the extra sweetness actually brings out the flavour of the bacon and makes it more noticeable and prominent.

00:45:07.916 --> 00:45:22.556

Tom: Then afterwards, once the sweetness of the sweet and sour sauce has faded a little, you get the extreme salty kick of all of that mustard and ketchup and the pickles just amplifying the flavour.

00:45:22.576 --> 00:45:30.376

Tom: So I would highly recommend dipping your customised cheeseburger into sweet and sour sauce.

00:45:32.736 --> 00:45:33.376

Phil: Very good.

00:45:35.256 --> 00:45:36.916

Tom: Now, back to Sky, unfortunately.

00:45:36.936 --> 00:45:39.056

Phil: Well, is there going to be any more ASMR in the show?

00:45:40.576 --> 00:45:43.936

Tom: I'll just finish eating in the background while you're speaking.

00:45:44.116 --> 00:45:49.396

Tom: I will obviously give my final thoughts on the energy and fillingness of the cheeseburger eventually though.

00:45:49.416 --> 00:45:54.636

Phil: Okay, well, I feel like I can't be left out of this segment, so I'm about to do my own ASMR.

00:45:57.116 --> 00:45:58.136

Phil: And there you have it.

00:45:58.716 --> 00:45:59.576

Tom: What are you drinking?

00:46:00.256 --> 00:46:01.936

Tom: Is it alcohol-free Heineken?

00:46:02.076 --> 00:46:02.876

Phil: Yes, it is.

00:46:03.236 --> 00:46:04.076

Phil: How could you doubt?

00:46:04.556 --> 00:46:05.616

Phil: Another new sponsor.

00:46:06.316 --> 00:46:10.336

Phil: No, it's James Squire Hop Thief American Pale Ale Special 10th Edition.

00:46:11.576 --> 00:46:13.236

Tom: That's very disappointing, I have to say.

00:46:13.256 --> 00:46:14.876

Phil: 5.3% alcohol in volume.

00:46:17.236 --> 00:46:19.196

Tom: I was hoping for the alcohol-free Heineken.

00:46:19.436 --> 00:46:24.236

Phil: No, well, you know, not until they're responsible, I drink that swill.

00:46:24.816 --> 00:46:28.916

Phil: So you were talking, you had something else, you were talking about The Little Prince expansion pack.

00:46:28.936 --> 00:46:30.176

Tom: Yeah, The Little Prince season.

00:46:30.716 --> 00:46:33.456

Tom: So the prior season was essentially a filler season.

00:46:33.476 --> 00:46:36.356

Tom: The one before that was one of their best seasons.

00:46:36.816 --> 00:46:45.816

Tom: That was the one about a skater, which unfortunately they totally screwed up the release of with a million glitches and other problems.

00:46:45.836 --> 00:46:46.956

Phil: I heard about that.

00:46:46.976 --> 00:46:55.876

Phil: And then there was the unlicensed use of Tony Hawk's image, which got them into some trouble.

00:46:55.956 --> 00:46:58.576

Tom: As well as Avril Lavigne's Skater Girl.

00:46:58.956 --> 00:46:59.936

Phil: Oh, yeah, very good.

00:47:00.336 --> 00:47:02.976

Tom: So it was a double, double failure.

00:47:03.196 --> 00:47:09.416

Tom: They totally missed the mark there, unfortunately, which was which was a great disappointment because the season itself was so good.

00:47:10.636 --> 00:47:25.176

Tom: But now at a proper season, this is the first season they've done that is explicitly referencing another intellectual property, I believe is the politically correct term.

00:47:26.736 --> 00:47:38.996

Tom: And The Little Prince is a natural fit for Sky, as you described the aesthetic and narrative of Sky earlier on.

00:47:39.016 --> 00:47:40.876

Tom: You can see how it is a very natural fit.

00:47:41.496 --> 00:48:18.316

Tom: And the way that they tell the story of The Little Prince is very interesting because there is no voice acting in Sky, but there are cut scenes and the dialogue is communicated just with text from The Little Prince as you meet him throughout the world and the story of the characters that he meets are in the new area and are communicated by reliving the memories of spirits and again using the in-game dialogue as if you're talking to other players, which works really well for two reasons.

00:48:18.476 --> 00:48:26.216

Tom: One, it does not at all interfere with the immersion and it's an interesting effect that it is the same way you communicate to other players.

00:48:27.336 --> 00:48:47.696

Tom: I think adding to the immersion and additionally a lot of the dialogue is some of it, a few snippets of it are almost verbatim and the rest is very close to the dialogue in the stories, although they did change the alcoholic to someone drinking dark water or something to that effect.

00:48:51.076 --> 00:49:13.876

Tom: But obviously, The Little Prince is a really rich writing, so it just worked perfectly being communicated in that way and I think a lot better than most adaptations of The Little Prince that do it in a more ostentatious and overstated manner where you do not need to with a book that is that well written.

00:49:15.496 --> 00:49:16.556

Phil: Two questions for you.

00:49:18.756 --> 00:49:19.996

Phil: How big is this game?

00:49:21.476 --> 00:49:22.336

Phil: It's huge, right?

00:49:22.356 --> 00:49:23.676

Phil: I mean, the 10th season.

00:49:24.996 --> 00:49:27.596

Tom: Yes, well, you can't do the previous seasons.

00:49:28.656 --> 00:49:31.616

Phil: No, I mean in terms of popularity.

00:49:32.376 --> 00:49:33.716

Tom: Oh, in terms of popularity.

00:49:34.016 --> 00:49:54.096

Tom: Well, it must be relatively successful because it is still going with as much support as it originally did and the number of other players has not diminished and has generally just increased with each platform release and each new region that comes along.

00:49:54.116 --> 00:49:55.496

Phil: You've been playing it for two years.

00:49:55.516 --> 00:49:56.236

Phil: What's the hook?

00:49:57.296 --> 00:50:01.976

Tom: I've been playing it since it was first released and the hook is two things, I would say.

00:50:02.316 --> 00:50:19.056

Tom: One, the aesthetic remains just, it has so much depth to it that it is endlessly enjoyable to continue collecting candles and doing that sort of thing as an aesthetic relaxing experience.

00:50:20.976 --> 00:50:43.776

Tom: But it becomes a whole other thing that is much more engrossive as it is in any sort of MMO where due to the way that you meet people in the game and usually go around with them for a period of time before actually talking to them or if you talk to them immediately, you're probably meeting them directly through friends you already have on the game.

00:50:44.596 --> 00:51:06.996

Tom: And the way in which you help one another out in the game creates an extremely unique and enjoyable community of other players to be doing what is essentially an extremely repetitive MMORPG style grinding experience.

00:51:06.996 --> 00:51:22.436

Tom: Once you have got all the spirits and gone through all the stories in the game, it then essentially becomes all about collecting candles outside of the seasons where you get a snippet of what the original experience was like.

00:51:22.816 --> 00:51:34.296

Tom: But due to the way they handle the social interaction in the game, it is a totally unique social experience that isn't really like any other sort of MMO out there.

00:51:34.916 --> 00:51:38.716

Phil: One of the issues I had with the game was how do I communicate with these people?

00:51:38.736 --> 00:51:44.256

Phil: And you were saying, well, half the listeners of this podcast now come from Sky and that they're telling you that they like the ASMR.

00:51:44.536 --> 00:51:47.996

Phil: I can't imagine how you did that with a series of chirps and gestures.

00:51:49.456 --> 00:51:52.056

Tom: Well, chirps and gestures are perfect for ASMR.

00:51:53.136 --> 00:51:55.596

Phil: Tell me how do you communicate with these people then?

00:51:56.996 --> 00:52:05.336

Tom: Well, you communicate them with in-game text once you have befriended them and unlocked chat or added them via a QR code.

00:52:05.396 --> 00:52:17.156

Phil: Okay, see, that was one of the issues that I had with this that I think would be way better in a touch environment was, and unfortunately they don't utilise the touchscreen on the Switch, which is baffling to me.

00:52:18.356 --> 00:52:27.716

Phil: I can tell that really good players at this are able to switch between gestures effortlessly and rapidly, which for a new player is really intimidating.

00:52:27.736 --> 00:52:31.156

Phil: And fortunately, they only give you a few gestures and you unlock them slowly.

00:52:32.256 --> 00:52:36.376

Phil: But like I wanted to talk to someone and I was like, oh, I should be using this gesture.

00:52:36.396 --> 00:52:37.716

Phil: And then I got lost in the menu.

00:52:37.736 --> 00:52:40.116

Phil: And by the time I find the gesture, I want to do it.

00:52:40.576 --> 00:52:43.016

Phil: You know, it's like seven seconds later.

00:52:43.736 --> 00:52:43.996

Tom: Yeah.

00:52:44.736 --> 00:52:45.096

Phil: And that's...

00:52:45.116 --> 00:52:46.276

Tom: Well, do you have bow?

00:52:46.696 --> 00:52:47.056

Phil: Yes.

00:52:47.856 --> 00:52:48.156

Tom: Yes.

00:52:48.176 --> 00:52:54.436

Tom: Well, I should add the correct etiquette when meeting anyone is after you light their candle, you bow to them.

00:52:55.196 --> 00:52:57.396

Phil: Oh, see, that's why people tell me to go away.

00:52:58.016 --> 00:52:58.396

Tom: Yes.

00:52:58.796 --> 00:53:00.216

Phil: I've been f**king them in the arse.

00:53:02.116 --> 00:53:02.836

Phil: Oh, jeez.

00:53:03.316 --> 00:53:04.496

Phil: I feel like an idiot now.

00:53:04.516 --> 00:53:08.056

Tom: That's how we greet each other in Australia, by the way, for our international listeners.

00:53:08.836 --> 00:53:09.976

Phil: It's a cultural thing.

00:53:12.756 --> 00:53:15.056

Phil: Well, so this is the best season since season three.

00:53:16.236 --> 00:53:26.376

Tom: Yes, or whatever the season which featured before the season was actually released, some people figured out how to get to the area.

00:53:27.356 --> 00:53:38.236

Tom: And the reason the season was so enjoyable, the season itself was really good because it had one of the best new areas in terms of how it evolved as you were playing.

00:53:38.256 --> 00:53:43.616

Tom: There was a crashed airship and you were essentially repairing the airship.

00:53:44.016 --> 00:53:51.896

Tom: And as you repaired it over time, the area would grow with plants and flowers and things like that.

00:53:51.916 --> 00:53:54.896

Tom: And it had a great sense of progression to it and was really beautiful.

00:53:54.916 --> 00:54:07.196

Tom: But the greatest appeal of it was that when someone figured out how to get there early, you would have one or two friends who either knew how to get there or knew someone else who did.

00:54:07.756 --> 00:54:09.856

Tom: And you would walk to them and you would go there.

00:54:10.236 --> 00:54:15.956

Tom: And there were mushrooms that were high up in the sky or underground.

00:54:16.356 --> 00:54:31.116

Tom: And the underground ones, you had to glitch through the ground into an underwater area where to reach the mushrooms, you would have to set up tables in the air and fly between the tables.

00:54:31.176 --> 00:54:35.336

Tom: And it was really awkward and difficult, probably the hardest thing in the game.

00:54:36.316 --> 00:54:54.356

Tom: And doing this extreme challenge to collect these mushrooms as each one gave you a candle, which was not a potentially generally intended design feature, was just this hilarious and enjoyable experience.

00:54:55.576 --> 00:54:58.456

Tom: So this is probably the best season since then.

00:54:59.576 --> 00:55:06.176

Tom: And it's deliberately good for its story and aesthetic.

00:55:06.216 --> 00:55:19.816

Tom: And it probably is the best one in terms of that, and just beating the skating season for me in terms of the narrative and aesthetic of the area.

00:55:20.056 --> 00:55:28.356

Tom: And also just put the other one third, the mushroom picking season, if not for the mushroom picking season, which makes it by far the greatest.

00:55:28.796 --> 00:55:33.176

Phil: We could probably talk about this game forever, but we've got a list of games as long as my arm.

00:55:33.476 --> 00:55:35.136

Phil: Is there anything else you want to say about Sky?

00:55:36.356 --> 00:55:36.916

Tom: Not really.

00:55:36.916 --> 00:55:52.436

Tom: And I would just add the final thing again, demonstrating the fascinating and totally different tone to the community of it, because if you're holding hands with another player, they recharge your flying energy, you will get people who will...

00:55:54.336 --> 00:55:54.936

Tom: I mean, sorry.

00:55:55.056 --> 00:55:58.016

Tom: You can just go around with friends, never flying.

00:55:58.036 --> 00:56:04.436

Tom: Basically, my playing of the game usually consists of if I'm eating and doing nothing else.

00:56:04.456 --> 00:56:09.596

Tom: And so I will just follow a friend around, talking to them essentially, rather than actually ever flying.

00:56:09.596 --> 00:56:31.336

Tom: Me running around in the game is very rare these days, but because it helps other people and the slower way in which you meet people, things like that, which people would have a huge problem with in other MMORPGs, if you did not actually then go out and farm for X amount of time yourself with them just sitting around doing nothing.

00:56:31.936 --> 00:56:33.676

Tom: That isn't an issue in Sky.

00:56:33.696 --> 00:56:34.956

Phil: Yeah, try that in Call of Duty.

00:56:35.596 --> 00:56:35.936

Tom: Yes.

00:56:36.416 --> 00:56:37.656

Phil: See how long you'll last.

00:56:38.936 --> 00:56:39.316

Tom: Exactly.

00:56:39.336 --> 00:56:41.936

Phil: I mean, it's okay to you, I'm just gonna sit here and eat, all right?

00:56:43.696 --> 00:56:53.576

Tom: Well, in MMORPGs, there are similar things where if you go into a dungeon with someone, without killing anything, if you're in their party, you'll get a certain amount of their XP.

00:56:54.276 --> 00:57:06.476

Tom: So you will often have a situation where people will just sit around chatting or being AFK there, but there's usually much greater expectation that you will also then need to do the same thing for other people.

00:57:06.896 --> 00:57:12.376

Tom: Whereas here, because you are still helping out by recharging people, that isn't really an issue.

00:57:12.396 --> 00:57:15.536

Tom: And also because you, to begin with, know the people better.

00:57:15.556 --> 00:57:17.496

Phil: So you're basically a lithium battery.

00:57:18.296 --> 00:57:19.656

Tom: Exactly, exactly.

00:57:20.676 --> 00:57:22.736

Tom: I am regenerative breaking, essentially.

00:57:22.736 --> 00:57:30.216

Phil: There was a game we both played called The First Tree, which is a journey ripoff, which is the only reason I mention it here.

00:57:31.876 --> 00:57:37.136

Phil: And like I was reading through my notes and my notes, and you're gonna have to excuse the French here.

00:57:37.836 --> 00:57:42.956

Phil: I wrote, you have one job in your journey ripoff, get the fucking character animation right.

00:57:43.536 --> 00:57:45.836

Phil: You failed, you failed comically.

00:57:46.016 --> 00:57:46.896

Phil: Now fuck off.

00:57:48.416 --> 00:57:50.296

Phil: That was my review of The First Tree.

00:57:51.076 --> 00:57:52.896

Phil: The First Tree, is it available free?

00:57:52.916 --> 00:57:54.056

Phil: We got it somewhere, didn't we?

00:57:54.076 --> 00:57:56.556

Tom: I think it was free on Epic Games Store.

00:57:56.636 --> 00:57:57.556

Phil: Okay, okay.

00:57:57.576 --> 00:58:02.296

Phil: And I may have got it through the Amazon Prime game service, which I'll just plug right now.

00:58:02.696 --> 00:58:06.676

Phil: If you have Amazon Prime, they have a game service that comes with Prime.

00:58:06.696 --> 00:58:08.236

Phil: You don't have to pay any extra money.

00:58:08.256 --> 00:58:09.676

Phil: And basically it's free games.

00:58:10.176 --> 00:58:18.356

Phil: It's bare bones as it can be, but it has notable games and indie ones and new games every week.

00:58:18.956 --> 00:58:33.876

Phil: Just to give you an idea as to some of the games, there's some Telltale series games on there, like Batman and Enemy Within, Monkey Island Special Edition, Yakuza Island Express, Before I Forget, which is another game that we both played.

00:58:34.116 --> 00:58:35.256

Phil: I'm not saying Before I Forget.

00:58:35.276 --> 00:58:36.676

Phil: Before I Forget is the name of the game.

00:58:37.656 --> 00:58:41.456

Phil: The Escapists, Moving Out, I mean, there's tons of free games on there.

00:58:42.236 --> 00:58:51.136

Phil: And if you're Bombslinger from Team17, and if you are an Amazon Prime subscriber already, it's free.

00:58:51.196 --> 00:58:54.016

Phil: I mean, all you have to do is download the platform for it.

00:58:55.776 --> 00:58:59.636

Phil: And I've found some great games as a part of it.

00:58:59.676 --> 00:59:01.816

Phil: So do you have a Prime subscription?

00:59:02.756 --> 00:59:05.276

Tom: I do currently and I played Before I Forget.

00:59:06.836 --> 00:59:07.396

Phil: What did you play?

00:59:08.556 --> 00:59:09.296

Tom: Before I Forget.

00:59:09.316 --> 00:59:09.876

Phil: Yeah, I know.

00:59:09.896 --> 00:59:11.016

Phil: Just tell us the name of the game, man.

00:59:13.076 --> 00:59:15.076

Tom: The First Tree, which we were talking about a moment ago.

00:59:15.096 --> 00:59:15.436

Phil: Oh, that's right.

00:59:15.456 --> 00:59:16.396

Tom: I'm surprised you forgot already.

00:59:16.416 --> 00:59:18.176

Phil: That's right.

00:59:18.196 --> 00:59:20.516

Phil: The First Tree, I describe it as a journey ripoff.

00:59:20.996 --> 00:59:21.296

Tom: Yes.

00:59:21.696 --> 00:59:30.376

Phil: With a really bad voiceover about a guy who's coming to terms with something or other and doing it by remembering his teenage years.

00:59:30.976 --> 00:59:35.016

Tom: It is so funny because he's talking to his partner.

00:59:35.036 --> 00:59:36.556

Phil: That's right.

00:59:36.976 --> 00:59:47.196

Tom: And he's bearing his heart to her on the problems he had with his father and growing up in an isolated, remote Alaskan community.

00:59:47.816 --> 00:59:53.816

Tom: And at some point, towards the end of the discussion, he's just like, okay, that's enough.

00:59:53.856 --> 00:59:55.136

Tom: I'm so exhausted.

00:59:55.576 --> 00:59:57.296

Tom: I've just bared my heart to you.

00:59:57.516 --> 00:59:58.596

Tom: I have to go to sleep now.

00:59:58.616 --> 01:00:00.616

Tom: And she's like, fuck you, motherfucker.

01:00:00.856 --> 01:00:05.456

Tom: You are finishing this fucking story before you go to sleep, you little shit.

01:00:09.356 --> 01:00:10.516

Phil: It is so bad.

01:00:10.836 --> 01:00:11.656

Phil: The writing.

01:00:11.676 --> 01:00:12.356

Tom: It's so funny.

01:00:12.376 --> 01:00:12.716

Phil: The writing.

01:00:12.736 --> 01:00:15.816

Tom: And he was like, yes, thank you for looking out for me like that.

01:00:16.236 --> 01:00:26.036

Tom: I'm sorry, but if someone fucking said that to me, they would be very lucky to get away with not being punched in the face or something.

01:00:26.376 --> 01:00:41.776

Tom: If I've just spent 50 hours on this long fucking heart-rending story and I can't go on due to physical exhaustion and this fucking piece of shit tells me, you fucking keep going, you ass.

01:00:42.696 --> 01:00:43.536

Tom: What the fuck?

01:00:44.036 --> 01:00:44.756

Tom: Oh my God.

01:00:45.436 --> 01:00:48.116

Phil: The animation, you're a dog or a wolf.

01:00:48.196 --> 01:00:49.616

Phil: I can't even remember this horror.

01:00:49.636 --> 01:00:50.616

Tom: You're a fox, I believe.

01:00:50.976 --> 01:00:51.716

Phil: Are you a fox?

01:00:52.996 --> 01:00:53.636

Tom: Yes.

01:00:53.636 --> 01:00:55.176

Phil: So a cross between a dog and a wolf.

01:00:56.196 --> 01:01:02.016

Phil: You're a fox, and like there's this, if you get a ripoff journey, get the character animation right.

01:01:02.036 --> 01:01:15.256

Phil: And you go to double jump, and basically the dog just basically, Jesus poses, and flies through the air, and then lands like a popsicle before he reanimates.

01:01:15.776 --> 01:01:16.856

Phil: It is so bad.

01:01:17.156 --> 01:01:21.356

Phil: This game is comically bad, and you need to play it, everyone out there.

01:01:21.436 --> 01:01:22.596

Tom: I absolutely loved it.

01:01:23.496 --> 01:01:37.396

Tom: And I have to say, it is simultaneously, I think aesthetically, one of the greatest experiences I've had, and one of the worst, with the, and narratively as well, was actually quite enjoyable in some ways.

01:01:37.616 --> 01:01:57.416

Tom: But forget the hilarity of the animation, the colors of the world were really unique, and also the, almost vortex, what was the outcast style way of doing pixels and building a world called?

01:01:57.436 --> 01:01:58.016

Phil: Outcast?

01:01:58.036 --> 01:01:58.276

Tom: Yes.

01:01:59.456 --> 01:02:00.256

Phil: What's Outcast?

01:02:01.256 --> 01:02:06.916

Tom: That was a PC game, and I'll look it up, just to confirm, I'm getting the name correct, but I think I am.

01:02:07.716 --> 01:02:08.016

Tom: That-

01:02:08.496 --> 01:02:12.076

Phil: Keeping in mind that I played The First Tree probably three weeks ago and didn't remember it.

01:02:12.096 --> 01:02:22.396

Tom: Yes, yes, Outcast, that is the correct name, made by originally, I think, fresh 3D perhaps.

01:02:23.316 --> 01:02:32.416

Tom: Anyway, it had a unique way of pixelating the world, which resulted in really smooth 3D surfaces for the time.

01:02:32.716 --> 01:02:34.956

Tom: It came out in 1999.

01:02:35.176 --> 01:02:51.636

Tom: Look it up and you would not be able to predict what it looks like, because it looks essentially like a N64 game, but with HD smoothness and much more detail in the curved surfaces.

01:02:52.496 --> 01:03:00.256

Tom: So it was a fascinating way of designing things and there are visual similarities here in the way trees and things like that look.

01:03:00.496 --> 01:03:13.296

Tom: Anyway, the basic point is the world looked very much like Picasso landscapes of the brief period in his career where he painted anything that wasn't utter shite.

01:03:13.856 --> 01:03:17.796

Tom: So it was a really fascinating and unique aesthetic experience.

01:03:18.396 --> 01:03:29.556

Tom: And the story of the fox, if you remove the story of the people and you're not too bothered by the hilarious animation was to me endearing enough that it kept my attention to the end.

01:03:29.876 --> 01:03:50.076

Tom: And it ends with you leaving a message for other players and you getting a message from other players on the theme of the game, which I thought again, worked in the context of the fox story quite nicely because it was left as a message for her children who she cannot communicate with because they're all dead essentially.

01:03:50.076 --> 01:03:54.176

Tom: So to me, it was just a totally fascinating experience.

01:03:54.196 --> 01:03:56.556

Tom: That was one, absolutely hilarious.

01:03:56.856 --> 01:04:10.696

Tom: And two, had some genuinely unique and good stuff about it while also being a ripoff of Journey and also featuring one of the funniest, stupidest stories tacked on to the top of it for some unknown reason.

01:04:11.916 --> 01:04:13.836

Phil: I think it's only like an hour long as well.

01:04:14.316 --> 01:04:15.316

Tom: Yeah, it's really short.

01:04:15.336 --> 01:04:20.256

Phil: Yeah, I just got to say, like it, you know, this was obviously someone's creative dream.

01:04:20.276 --> 01:04:23.736

Phil: They, you know, they did something that I've never done, which is publish a video game.

01:04:23.756 --> 01:04:24.336

Phil: That's great.

01:04:24.816 --> 01:04:31.536

Phil: You've talked about how great itch is because it means everyone can publish their own game and their own story, which is great.

01:04:31.556 --> 01:04:38.696

Phil: I mean, anyone can publish their own game and own story, but if you're going to self-publish, you open yourself up for this kind of criticism.

01:04:38.756 --> 01:04:39.556

Phil: And I'm sorry.

01:04:39.676 --> 01:04:45.096

Phil: I mean, there was some things about it that was very good and that didn't crash, I don't think.

01:04:46.616 --> 01:04:57.296

Phil: And it was short and it was obviously heartfelt, but you know, when you self-publish, you're not going to get the kind of polish that you're going to get from other games.

01:04:57.296 --> 01:04:58.496

Phil: And some...

01:04:58.516 --> 01:05:03.016

Tom: Well, that's totally false because there are self-published games where that is the case.

01:05:03.036 --> 01:05:03.476

Phil: No, I know.

01:05:03.616 --> 01:05:10.036

Phil: I was going to say though, and sometimes that lack of polish is actually the brilliance of that game.

01:05:10.056 --> 01:05:10.576

Tom: That's right.

01:05:10.596 --> 01:05:10.776

Phil: Yeah.

01:05:10.796 --> 01:05:11.336

Tom: That is true.

01:05:12.276 --> 01:05:17.716

Tom: And you will not get lack of polish that is good in larger things for the most part.

01:05:17.856 --> 01:05:23.556

Tom: But that, no, you do actually sometimes get that in rare occasions, like the Order 1886.

01:05:23.736 --> 01:05:25.436

Phil: Yeah, or Saints Row, for example.

01:05:26.076 --> 01:05:29.016

Tom: So it does happen in published games as well.

01:05:29.536 --> 01:05:31.416

Tom: And yes, Saints Row, another great example.

01:05:31.436 --> 01:05:35.116

Phil: Does that Plague Tale game have a similar kind of thing or not?

01:05:36.176 --> 01:05:37.656

Tom: No, Plague Tale is quite polished.

01:05:37.676 --> 01:05:38.036

Phil: Okay.

01:05:38.076 --> 01:05:45.756

Phil: And that was given away free on Game Pass and on Sony's equivalent service about a month ago.

01:05:45.776 --> 01:05:49.716

Phil: And what was your reaction when you found out there was going to be a sequel?

01:05:51.636 --> 01:05:54.156

Tom: Well, this is me finding out that there's going to be a sequel.

01:05:54.176 --> 01:05:57.036

Phil: Well, this is from the studio that did a Plague Tale, right?

01:05:57.056 --> 01:05:57.656

Phil: That's what it's called.

01:05:58.956 --> 01:06:00.176

Tom: That is indeed what it is called.

01:06:00.316 --> 01:06:06.696

Phil: And it's a kind of a, I'm going to say like a B-game type third person action adventure.

01:06:07.396 --> 01:06:09.876

Tom: We would have referred to it in the past as a mid-tier.

01:06:09.896 --> 01:06:10.276

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:10.756 --> 01:06:11.256

Phil: Exactly.

01:06:11.496 --> 01:06:17.716

Phil: And this same team went on to do Microsoft's Flight Simulator, which has been massively...

01:06:17.736 --> 01:06:21.576

Tom: You can see the influence of a plague tale.

01:06:22.116 --> 01:06:24.356

Phil: It's gone on to be massively successful.

01:06:24.376 --> 01:06:32.956

Phil: And then as a result, Microsoft, I think now owns the studio, is part of their buy-up of half the unowned independent developers.

01:06:32.976 --> 01:06:34.556

Tom: That's good to hear for games, pass owners.

01:06:34.576 --> 01:06:34.816

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:35.236 --> 01:06:40.936

Phil: And they've earned the ability to make a sequel, which has to be a dream come true.

01:06:40.956 --> 01:06:44.096

Phil: Just ask the guys that made The Order 1886.

01:06:44.716 --> 01:06:46.456

Phil: So yeah, they're making a sequel, Tom.

01:06:47.116 --> 01:06:47.696

Tom: I'm excited.

01:06:50.896 --> 01:06:51.116

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:51.136 --> 01:06:56.196

Phil: And so just to take away, yeah, okay, obviously, we're being highly critical of this game because it is comically bad.

01:06:56.516 --> 01:07:00.456

Phil: I do feel a little bit bad about that if the creator was listening to this podcast.

01:07:01.196 --> 01:07:05.376

Tom: But it was also actually really well received and a lot of people love it.

01:07:05.396 --> 01:07:05.696

Phil: Good.

01:07:06.276 --> 01:07:07.536

Phil: I'm glad for that.

01:07:08.216 --> 01:07:17.636

Tom: Even on the show, as I said, apart from it as a ridiculous experience, I genuinely did enjoy the Fox side of the narrative.

01:07:17.656 --> 01:07:18.236

Phil: Oh, me too.

01:07:18.336 --> 01:07:22.136

Tom: And loved the aesthetic of the world design.

01:07:22.136 --> 01:07:26.036

Phil: Yeah, and I didn't like the aesthetic as much, but I did love the Fox stuff.

01:07:26.056 --> 01:07:30.836

Phil: And I think probably what pulled it down was the hokey dialogue.

01:07:32.036 --> 01:07:35.196

Phil: It was obviously what pulled it down and made it comically bad.

01:07:35.216 --> 01:07:35.776

Tom: Absolutely.

01:07:36.676 --> 01:07:50.476

Phil: Other games that we've both played, like Not Tonight and Hot Shot Racing, we might get to, but I've also been playing Yakuza Like a Dragon, which has been in the news this week as well, and Pac-Man 99 as well.

01:07:50.656 --> 01:07:54.776

Phil: But was there a game that you wanted to play or do you want me to yak on for a while?

01:07:56.256 --> 01:07:58.396

Tom: Well, I have just finished the cheeseburger.

01:07:59.076 --> 01:08:00.396

Phil: Oh, I haven't heard about that game.

01:08:00.876 --> 01:08:01.416

Phil: Who published it?

01:08:01.436 --> 01:08:02.396

Tom: And the chips as well.

01:08:02.916 --> 01:08:10.236

Tom: And I should add, I've been washing this down with a Gatorade watermelon flavoured Gatorade.

01:08:10.256 --> 01:08:14.596

Tom: Can you guess what colour the liquid in this Gatorade watermelon is?

01:08:14.616 --> 01:08:18.136

Phil: Well, a watermelon consists of four colours, white, black, red and green.

01:08:18.156 --> 01:08:22.716

Phil: So I'm going to suggest that it is pinkish red.

01:08:24.236 --> 01:08:25.116

Tom: You would be wrong.

01:08:25.116 --> 01:08:26.536

Tom: It is transparent.

01:08:28.156 --> 01:08:28.476

Phil: What?

01:08:29.376 --> 01:08:29.936

Phil: No colour.

01:08:30.996 --> 01:08:31.496

Tom: That's right.

01:08:31.516 --> 01:08:33.616

Tom: It is a colourless, transparent liquid.

01:08:33.636 --> 01:08:41.116

Phil: Well, I respect that because I'm a big fan of colourless beverages, because then you don't have to brush your teeth.

01:08:42.356 --> 01:08:45.816

Tom: So while he has great health advice on diet...

01:08:46.896 --> 01:08:48.396

Phil: Well, unless it's sugary, then of course...

01:08:48.416 --> 01:08:51.256

Tom: I wouldn't recommend you follow his dental hygiene practices.

01:08:51.276 --> 01:08:57.416

Phil: If it's sugary, obviously you have to brush your teeth, but I was assuming that everyone drinks sugar-free beverages.

01:08:58.456 --> 01:09:01.756

Tom: Well, you should also brush your teeth if it is at all acidic as well.

01:09:01.776 --> 01:09:03.676

Tom: Or if it is carbonated.

01:09:03.696 --> 01:09:04.336

Phil: Citric acid.

01:09:04.836 --> 01:09:06.056

Phil: What's wrong with carbonation?

01:09:06.916 --> 01:09:09.716

Tom: Well, carbonation is actually one of the worst things for the teeth.

01:09:09.736 --> 01:09:11.936

Phil: You know, I got a soda stream a few months ago.

01:09:11.936 --> 01:09:13.516

Phil: I'm in love with my soda stream.

01:09:15.176 --> 01:09:17.516

Tom: Have you been making colourless or colour drinks with it?

01:09:17.536 --> 01:09:19.416

Phil: Bit of column A, bit of column B.

01:09:19.436 --> 01:09:21.416

Phil: I'm actually blending a lot of flavours.

01:09:21.436 --> 01:09:23.896

Phil: So I'll get Pepsi Max and I'll blend it with Fanta.

01:09:24.476 --> 01:09:26.416

Phil: So I'm making this like orange cola.

01:09:26.516 --> 01:09:27.376

Phil: It's delicious.

01:09:28.156 --> 01:09:30.416

Phil: And then I'll put some Mountain Dew in there as well.

01:09:30.436 --> 01:09:33.196

Phil: There's a Mountain Dew, they sell Mountain Dew juice as well.

01:09:33.216 --> 01:09:35.016

Phil: So I'll do a Mountain Dew, Fanta.

01:09:35.096 --> 01:09:39.036

Tom: We'll obviously have to have a live on-air taste test of that when you first try that.

01:09:39.056 --> 01:09:43.276

Phil: Yeah, I could send it to you, but I probably wouldn't have any bubbles by the time it got to Lockdown Land.

01:09:44.236 --> 01:09:45.916

Phil: Hey, Lockdown Land, that's a good one.

01:09:45.936 --> 01:09:49.516

Phil: Nintendo Switch.

01:09:49.536 --> 01:09:51.636

Tom: Another potential title for the episode.

01:09:52.016 --> 01:09:55.156

Phil: Oh, the other thing about the release of the Steamdeck, I listened to it.

01:09:55.176 --> 01:09:57.356

Tom: Lockdown Land, you've got your Britpop song.

01:09:57.376 --> 01:09:58.776

Phil: I got my Britpop, Brit.

01:09:58.796 --> 01:10:01.176

Tom: Now you've got your British Scar song, Lockdown Land.

01:10:06.676 --> 01:10:13.676

Phil: The funny thing about the reception to the Steamdeck, the funniest reaction to the release of the Steamdeck is coming from Nintendo.

01:10:13.976 --> 01:10:25.436

Phil: Like if you want a good old laugh, listen to a Nintendo themed podcast, Nintendo Voice Channel on IGN, because they're talking about everything through the context of, oh, is this a threat to Nintendo?

01:10:25.796 --> 01:10:28.136

Phil: Nintendo has sold 85 million switches.

01:10:28.196 --> 01:10:29.196

Phil: I'm not exaggerating.

01:10:29.376 --> 01:10:31.336

Phil: This is not a threat to Nintendo.

01:10:31.356 --> 01:10:34.756

Phil: This is two completely different markets, two different audiences.

01:10:35.796 --> 01:10:44.076

Phil: And they're talking about this like, oh, they announced this on the day that Nintendo announced their OLED, or the day after, you know.

01:10:44.096 --> 01:10:46.776

Phil: And it's like, oh yeah, that's what Valve did.

01:10:46.796 --> 01:10:50.816

Phil: They waited till Nintendo released news about their Switch OLED.

01:10:51.316 --> 01:11:01.576

Phil: Then in a day, they developed the Steamdeck to show Nintendo that Nintendo should have put out a Nintendo Switch Plus or a Super Switch.

01:11:02.156 --> 01:11:05.676

Tom: Well, they may indeed have been waiting until that announcement occurred.

01:11:06.896 --> 01:11:11.396

Tom: So that it didn't get washed under the rug with coverage of that.

01:11:11.416 --> 01:11:14.896

Phil: Yeah, I think the Steamdeck thing would have been notable regardless.

01:11:14.916 --> 01:11:20.116

Phil: But like Nintendo Switch is hitting it out of the park, I don't get the criticism of the OLED.

01:11:21.016 --> 01:11:24.616

Phil: The PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X is just complete.

01:11:24.636 --> 01:11:29.696

Tom: The criticism is that for some unknown reason, people thought there would be a 4K Switch.

01:11:30.076 --> 01:11:33.816

Phil: And I heard the best argument as to why there wouldn't, but I'm not gonna go into that here.

01:11:35.396 --> 01:12:01.536

Tom: Well, the reason why there wouldn't be very simply is why on earth would Nintendo, whose strategy since the Wii has been to not only release lower powered consoles than its rivals, but keep them within the same sort of power range without major changes to the SKUs of their consoles that they release.

01:12:01.896 --> 01:12:16.916

Tom: So if they were to release a 4K Switch, that would be like releasing the PS4 Pro or whatever the Xbox equivalent to that was called, which has not been their strategy whatsoever.

01:12:16.936 --> 01:12:29.076

Tom: This is in line more so with what they've done with the iterations on the DS and so on and so forth, which is clearly where a lot of their design and release strategy for the Switch has come from.

01:12:29.076 --> 01:12:46.836

Phil: Right, and plus the whole, with the best argument I've heard is that because of the component shortages due to COVID in China, if they keep the hardware the same that powers it and everything else, those are orders that they put in years ago.

01:12:47.596 --> 01:12:51.456

Phil: They've got existing supply agreements with those people that produce it.

01:12:52.256 --> 01:12:54.536

Phil: Changing out the OLED screens neither here nor there.

01:12:55.096 --> 01:12:59.536

Phil: It's basically just filling up the same hole, putting a better kickstand on it.

01:12:59.976 --> 01:13:00.956

Phil: It's neither here nor there.

01:13:00.976 --> 01:13:04.636

Phil: That's not a component that's gonna be difficult to fabricate.

01:13:05.056 --> 01:13:16.196

Phil: But if they had done an upgrade of their power, they'd have to look at every single component pretty much of the hardware and then go out and re-contract in a very different post-COVID environment.

01:13:16.636 --> 01:13:18.856

Phil: And it would have just driven up the cost ridiculously.

01:13:19.016 --> 01:13:20.156

Phil: It seems practical.

01:13:20.176 --> 01:13:33.836

Phil: And while they've sold 85 million switches, why rock the boat when their, quote, competition, Sony, PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series, are completely invisible and non-existent in the marketplace?

01:13:34.996 --> 01:13:42.396

Tom: Which is why I would argue that the main reason for them not doing a 4K switch is why would they in the first place?

01:13:42.416 --> 01:13:43.836

Phil: Exactly, yeah, exactly.

01:13:43.856 --> 01:13:58.236

Phil: And hey, you know, if you haven't bought a switch yet, the news of the OLED with the greater storage capacity as well and better battery life, you know, for 50 bucks more, it's a no-brainer.

01:13:59.176 --> 01:14:01.756

Phil: But for existing switch owners, is it a reason to upgrade?

01:14:02.456 --> 01:14:03.816

Phil: Not unless your current one's broken.

01:14:04.456 --> 01:14:10.156

Phil: So anyway, the Furore has been hilarious to me, or rather sadly typical.

01:14:12.356 --> 01:14:17.936

Phil: With that, I guess we should probably go on to an old standby of the game, and that's Yakuza.

01:14:18.576 --> 01:14:21.416

Phil: I've been playing Yakuza Like a Dragon religiously.

01:14:22.096 --> 01:14:22.756

Phil: For the last few...

01:14:22.776 --> 01:14:25.076

Tom: What does it mean to play a game like a dragon?

01:14:25.776 --> 01:14:32.016

Phil: Well, I've been playing Yakuza, colon, like a dragon, end quote, name of game.

01:14:32.036 --> 01:14:35.096

Tom: You know, I'm gonna interrupt you there, because...

01:14:35.116 --> 01:14:36.976

Tom: Ha ha ha ha!

01:14:37.896 --> 01:14:41.776

Tom: That just reminded me that we forgot about Before I Forget.

01:14:42.916 --> 01:14:43.476

Phil: Forget what?

01:14:44.436 --> 01:14:44.976

Tom: Exactly.

01:14:44.996 --> 01:14:51.736

Tom: So we just need to quickly cover that before we get to your new way of playing games, which I believe is like a dragon.

01:14:52.196 --> 01:14:54.416

Phil: I've been drinking this beer like a dragon too, so...

01:14:54.436 --> 01:15:01.116

Phil: Hey, Before I Forget is available as a part of the Amazon Prime game service, not a sponsor.

01:15:02.236 --> 01:15:05.816

Phil: On the PC, it was released in 2020, and it got some...

01:15:05.836 --> 01:15:07.236

Tom: Please get in touch with us, Amazon.

01:15:07.256 --> 01:15:14.656

Tom: I think, as you can tell from our McDonald's and Mountain Dew and Dorito coverage, we are excellent at promoting things.

01:15:14.676 --> 01:15:15.856

Phil: Not to mention SodaStream.

01:15:17.376 --> 01:15:28.636

Phil: But Before I Forget is the name of the game that was released on PC in 2020 by a company called Threefold Studios, which I can't see that they've made much before.

01:15:30.176 --> 01:15:33.196

Tom: Nor after, but they are working on a project currently.

01:15:33.216 --> 01:15:34.276

Phil: I'm sure they are.

01:15:34.576 --> 01:15:44.756

Phil: It was critically acclaimed, or at least won some awards over in Euroland, which is probably where they're from, Threefold Studios, made mostly by two people when I reviewed the credits.

01:15:45.216 --> 01:15:50.116

Phil: And it's a game about early onset dementia.

01:15:50.136 --> 01:16:04.716

Phil: So the Eurogamer did a story about this Before I Forget game, which is pretty good called Before I Forget how Two Strangers made one of 2020's most moving games, which is hilarious to me.

01:16:05.776 --> 01:16:07.076

Phil: But it's still worth a read.

01:16:07.236 --> 01:16:09.856

Tom: For a start, she could barely move in the game.

01:16:10.576 --> 01:16:20.596

Phil: Well, in the game, basically, you're playing it from a first person perspective in a very pleasant but small house in England, presumably London.

01:16:21.816 --> 01:16:29.516

Phil: And you are an academic, and you've been married to another academic, both of whom were highly successful in their fields.

01:16:30.176 --> 01:16:42.936

Phil: And you essentially walk around in a PT-style way, remembering things and then basically blacking out sort of because you've got early onset dementia.

01:16:43.616 --> 01:16:53.416

Phil: And through all of this, you're telling a story, and as you remember things, as you pick up things, it will paint or illuminate things in each room.

01:16:55.176 --> 01:17:02.156

Phil: And then there's sort of a mystery as well that's going on because there's notes around the place that you don't remember writing to yourself.

01:17:02.156 --> 01:17:18.676

Phil: Sort of in a memento, the movie style with Guy Pearce, you're kind of trying to remember certain things, so you're not quite sure if this person you're referring to is a nasty person or what's going on in your notes.

01:17:19.456 --> 01:17:24.136

Phil: Does that pretty much sum up or just give a basic intro to the game?

01:17:24.476 --> 01:17:24.976

Tom: It does.

01:17:24.996 --> 01:17:26.856

Tom: I like the comparisons there as well.

01:17:27.116 --> 01:17:28.816

Tom: PT and memento.

01:17:29.936 --> 01:17:40.316

Phil: Yes, and I also found it evocative of a game, The Path from the Tale of Tales studio that we both love, The Makers of Sunset.

01:17:40.336 --> 01:17:41.076

Tom: Yes.

01:17:42.176 --> 01:17:47.516

Phil: The Path, for whatever reason, this game evoked the path to me, and I think it did to you as well.

01:17:49.576 --> 01:17:53.096

Tom: Is The Path the graveyard one, or the Little Red Riding Hood one?

01:17:53.876 --> 01:17:59.616

Phil: The Path is the walking through a forest one, is how I remember it.

01:18:00.276 --> 01:18:02.776

Tom: I think that's the Little Red Riding Hood one.

01:18:03.616 --> 01:18:03.956

Tom: Yes.

01:18:06.496 --> 01:18:26.376

Phil: Comically, the only other thing I have to say about this game is comically at the end of this game, they reveal how your partner died, and I'm not going to spoil it here, but I was like, going how the dialogue has gone in this game, please don't use a sound effect.

01:18:27.716 --> 01:18:31.636

Phil: And then they used the most obvious sound effect.

01:18:33.016 --> 01:18:42.616

Phil: And I could see it, it was like a car crash in slow motion, and I'm not spoiling anything here, but it was like watching an accident in slow motion.

01:18:42.636 --> 01:18:43.796

Phil: You could see it coming.

01:18:44.116 --> 01:18:47.756

Phil: You're like, Oh God, please no, they're not going to do that, are they?

01:18:48.556 --> 01:18:49.296

Phil: Then they did it.

01:18:50.676 --> 01:18:58.176

Phil: And it completely knocked the legs out from under any seriousness that the game had.

01:18:58.196 --> 01:19:07.896

Phil: And it was kind of crazy because, you know, whatever you think of the game, they had got to the end, they'd got to the crescendo, and it is a very short game.

01:19:09.576 --> 01:19:25.996

Phil: And then just to have it, you know, what we talk about and what everyone talks about is that when you have a stage show or a musical, you want the crowd, you want to end with a banger so that when the crowd's walking out of the lobby, they're humming the song, you know, the last song that they heard.

01:19:26.516 --> 01:19:38.276

Phil: You want that audience catharsis where everything, you know, you went on a ride and at the end, everything pulled together and you're like, yeah, yeah, before I forget, I'm going to tell my friends about it.

01:19:39.056 --> 01:19:41.996

Phil: But they ended up with this comically bad folly work.

01:19:42.956 --> 01:19:44.116

Phil: It was just so bad.

01:19:44.756 --> 01:19:56.516

Tom: Anyway, I think, I think, Gargan's description of it is, and I'm not saying I agree with it on this game, but I think it's going to be that it doesn't matter how good the trip is if you arrive at Shit Mountain.

01:19:58.376 --> 01:19:59.476

Phil: I have heard him say that.

01:20:01.856 --> 01:20:02.436

Phil: That's funny.

01:20:02.896 --> 01:20:06.596

Phil: So did you add anything here about Before I Forget the game?

01:20:07.256 --> 01:20:30.076

Tom: Well, we are going to have to get in to spoiler territory, but before that, I would just say the thing I found most interesting and perhaps most ineffective about it was it is about early onset dementia and someone losing their memories and not being able to make sense of things due to not having memories.

01:20:30.336 --> 01:20:41.736

Tom: But the structure of the narrative is that as you're going along, you learn more and more of her memories and more of what's going on is revealed.

01:20:42.056 --> 01:20:48.576

Tom: So I thought that made it perhaps not very effective at the thing it was trying to depict.

01:20:49.616 --> 01:20:52.956

Tom: And that would probably be my biggest issue with the game.

01:20:52.976 --> 01:21:05.216

Phil: Maybe if in the game you, as a mechanic, took a B12 pill like every day and so you finally beat onset dementia and then you come out of it and you're, you know.

01:21:05.296 --> 01:21:06.796

Tom: You have to solve Sudoku puns.

01:21:06.916 --> 01:21:08.256

Tom: Yeah.

01:21:09.156 --> 01:21:11.396

Phil: No, play Brain Age on a virtual DS.

01:21:14.796 --> 01:21:19.236

Tom: Just lower your Brain Age until she gets to the car sound effect.

01:21:19.816 --> 01:21:23.856

Phil: Again, you wanted to spoil some things or?

01:21:24.656 --> 01:21:27.316

Tom: Yes, we have to get into spoiler territory.

01:21:27.356 --> 01:21:28.736

Phil: Is this game worth spoiling?

01:21:29.976 --> 01:21:55.336

Tom: I think it is, I think it is because there's one other interesting thing about it other than the, I think rather large failure that it is a game about early onset dementia and the entire story and the conclusion of the story is with her working out her memories, where I would suggest that the problem with memory loss and dementia would be the fact that you can't do that.

01:21:56.796 --> 01:22:42.396

Tom: So the other interesting direction I think it could have gone in is rather than her husband, and we're now into spoilers, rather than her husband dying in a comical sound effect complete car crash, having left her with the subtext being due to her dementia, which I think would have been probably a lot more impactful and too much more societally interesting because a large number of divorces are indeed often caused by, specifically a woman's significant health problem or disability.

01:22:43.256 --> 01:22:55.156

Tom: So it could have gone in a much more interesting direction, not just in how the story was told where it's essentially the reverse of the thing, but I also think it could have gone in a more interesting direction in terms of the actual plot as well.

01:22:55.176 --> 01:22:55.716

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

01:22:55.736 --> 01:23:03.096

Phil: In terms of representation, I have to say, the character that you're playing is a woman of Indian heritage.

01:23:03.116 --> 01:23:06.356

Phil: So, you know, I mean, that's not usual in a video game.

01:23:06.356 --> 01:23:13.016

Phil: So I don't know if that reflects the background of the people that made the game and is therefore somewhat lazy.

01:23:14.236 --> 01:23:15.656

Phil: But, you know, it was worth noting.

01:23:15.656 --> 01:23:17.696

Phil: I mean, diversity is generally a good thing.

01:23:19.076 --> 01:23:19.396

Tom: Sure.

01:23:20.496 --> 01:23:25.116

Tom: And actually, the most interesting parts in the narrative, I thought, though, again, they didn't...

01:23:25.716 --> 01:23:55.676

Tom: And this part did perhaps potentially go to some of the dementia stuff, were the flashbacks to her experiences with her aunt, I think, in getting her into astrology, with that getting in the way potentially of her attempting to work out practical, immediate things and more important, not more important, but other important memories that she was trying to find to help her figure out what was going on in the present.

01:23:55.696 --> 01:23:59.596

Tom: So that was one area where I think they did succeed in an interesting way.

01:23:59.616 --> 01:24:11.156

Phil: Absolutely, and if the game had been longer or better budgeted or whatever, better resourced, maybe there would have been more of that, where you could see other people in your life making similar type of contributions.

01:24:11.176 --> 01:24:13.196

Phil: But I thought that was pretty good, actually.

01:24:13.216 --> 01:24:16.656

Phil: I appreciated that little juncture.

01:24:17.596 --> 01:24:23.916

Tom: And one other, I think, successful depiction of it was the seizure in the hall.

01:24:24.396 --> 01:24:26.036

Phil: Right, yeah, that was good, too.

01:24:26.216 --> 01:24:27.696

Phil: So, one of the...

01:24:28.256 --> 01:24:30.216

Tom: It does do some things quite interesting.

01:24:30.236 --> 01:24:43.916

Phil: One of the mechanics of this, just to explain this to the listener, is that you'll open a door and you'll go into a room and it looks like a closet, but then when you come out of the room, it's not a closet, and so you're kind of getting lost in your own home as well, which helps contribute.

01:24:44.036 --> 01:24:45.276

Tom: Absent seizures.

01:24:45.396 --> 01:24:51.116

Phil: Which helps contribute to that disorienting, capturing what must be...

01:24:52.216 --> 01:25:03.576

Phil: I've had various disorienting experiences in my life, albeit very few, very, very few, and yeah, I thought they captured that quite well, almost to the point of inducing nausea.

01:25:04.476 --> 01:25:15.076

Tom: And also, there was also, I've forgotten the technical term, but the seizure that was always in the hall, which was a carpet that was highly patterned.

01:25:15.096 --> 01:25:21.716

Tom: You couldn't see the carpet, but there was just this black hole type thing in the hall that you couldn't pass, which was also very well done.

01:25:21.736 --> 01:25:28.596

Phil: I thought that was a representation of a mobile phone dead spot that you couldn't get reception in that part of the house.

01:25:28.756 --> 01:25:30.676

Tom: You couldn't get a GPS in the house there.

01:25:30.696 --> 01:25:34.156

Phil: That's why you had to avoid it, because otherwise your calls would come out.

01:25:34.176 --> 01:25:35.976

Phil: Okay, I see your interpretation too.

01:25:37.596 --> 01:25:38.676

Phil: So yeah, I mean, it's obviously...

01:25:38.816 --> 01:25:40.676

Tom: My interpretation is the correct one.

01:25:41.096 --> 01:25:43.276

Tom: That is a fact that that's what that was.

01:25:43.336 --> 01:25:54.796

Phil: Okay, so like, you know, I was pretty flipped in my description of this game earlier, probably because we just came off the Like a Tree or game or whatever it was called, My First Tree, but...

01:25:55.236 --> 01:25:57.856

Tom: I think it's because you were still in Dragon energy mode.

01:25:57.856 --> 01:25:59.576

Phil: I was still playing like a dragon.

01:26:00.676 --> 01:26:10.816

Phil: But yeah, this game does do some good things and some memorable things and it's certainly worth playing and it's free on Epic Games, so at least it was at some point.

01:26:10.836 --> 01:26:13.556

Phil: You'd probably pick it up somewhere else on Niche or something like that as well.

01:26:13.636 --> 01:26:15.456

Tom: I think it was free on Amazon Prime.

01:26:15.476 --> 01:26:16.856

Tom: Oh, that's right.

01:26:16.876 --> 01:26:17.976

Phil: I had it on Amazon Prime.

01:26:17.996 --> 01:26:18.196

Phil: Yes.

01:26:18.616 --> 01:26:18.876

Tom: Yep.

01:26:20.096 --> 01:26:24.976

Tom: But I think it's time for you to finally release your Dragon energy.

01:26:24.996 --> 01:26:27.976

Phil: Okay, I'm going to release the Dragon.

01:26:28.556 --> 01:26:29.696

Phil: Yakuza Like a Dragon.

01:26:29.696 --> 01:26:35.556

Phil: We used to have a Yakuza Killzone Minute where I would talk about my favorite game, Tom would talk about his favorite game.

01:26:36.216 --> 01:26:53.816

Phil: Who would have thought that many years past that Killzone would have been limited to just four games, and Yakuza, again, another instance of cultural appropriation as more and more gamers flocked to the license, just becomes basically everything that Sega does.

01:26:54.996 --> 01:27:05.116

Phil: So that's kind of weird, but I guess in some way you won because the guy behind the Killzone studio is now running the Sony Worldwide Games Division.

01:27:06.956 --> 01:27:07.556

Phil: Hans would...

01:27:07.576 --> 01:27:10.236

Tom: I think it's also quite predictable as well because...

01:27:10.256 --> 01:27:13.916

Phil: Because he's German, and they always climb to the highest ranks.

01:27:16.856 --> 01:27:19.956

Tom: Except in Imperialism, where they always fail, unfortunately.

01:27:19.976 --> 01:27:20.976

Phil: I don't know if he is German.

01:27:20.996 --> 01:27:21.856

Phil: We're talking, of course, about...

01:27:21.876 --> 01:27:22.376

Phil: What's his name?

01:27:22.396 --> 01:27:22.796

Phil: Helmut?

01:27:24.756 --> 01:27:25.876

Tom: Helmut, are we?

01:27:26.096 --> 01:27:27.096

Tom: Helmut Marco?

01:27:30.116 --> 01:27:38.876

Phil: Look, you find out his real name, but he's running Sony's worldwide gaming studios now, and he was the guy behind the Killzone guerrilla games.

01:27:39.416 --> 01:27:48.616

Phil: And he's had a few missteps, but, you know, obviously Sony is still doing well with their strategy, but possibly not as well as Sega is doing with Yakuza.

01:27:49.416 --> 01:27:57.816

Phil: The whole Yakuza Zero, followed by the Yakuza Kiwami remakes of the series, have been wildly successful and popular.

01:27:59.116 --> 01:28:09.416

Phil: And of course, they've made Judgment, which was the first, you know, quote original game in many years, Judgment Eyes, as it was released in Japan.

01:28:10.756 --> 01:28:24.996

Phil: And it's been in the news this week because basically Sega announced some time ago that Yakuza Like a Dragon, which is an RPG, a turn-based RPG, is going to be the way Yakuza is from now on.

01:28:25.016 --> 01:28:30.216

Phil: It's no longer going to be a street brawler game, as it has been.

01:28:30.756 --> 01:28:38.116

Phil: And that they basically are going to continue their Yakuza gameplay as a brawler with the Judgment Eye series.

01:28:39.636 --> 01:28:40.376

Phil: But this week...

01:28:40.896 --> 01:28:43.436

Tom: What was the gameplay in The First Judgment?

01:28:44.356 --> 01:28:47.076

Phil: In The First Judgment, it was basically Yakuza.

01:28:47.136 --> 01:28:48.956

Phil: And, you know, obviously they used...

01:28:49.056 --> 01:28:54.536

Phil: It's still set in Kamuroko, and it has all of the same art assets and everything else.

01:28:54.996 --> 01:28:55.796

Phil: You basically...

01:28:56.116 --> 01:29:01.736

Phil: It has added elements, but at its sole, it is basically a traditional Yakuza game.

01:29:03.316 --> 01:29:07.156

Phil: So, but they've announced that Yakuza Like a Dragon is now going to be Yakuza.

01:29:07.176 --> 01:29:08.936

Phil: That is all that it's going to be.

01:29:09.956 --> 01:29:16.096

Phil: So obviously I came to it late because I was skeptical about how this would work.

01:29:16.156 --> 01:29:21.256

Phil: But Like a Dragon is a direct reference to Dragon Warrior or Dragon Quest, rather.

01:29:23.556 --> 01:29:24.236

Phil: And it started...

01:29:24.296 --> 01:29:24.656

Tom: Is it?

01:29:25.996 --> 01:29:26.736

Tom: How does that work?

01:29:26.756 --> 01:29:28.636

Phil: Well, it started out as an April Fools joke.

01:29:28.656 --> 01:29:35.256

Phil: They basically said that they were going to turn Yakuza into a turn-based RPG.

01:29:36.116 --> 01:29:36.616

Tom: I see.

01:29:36.776 --> 01:29:39.156

Phil: But then everyone was like, yeah, that sounds like a great idea.

01:29:39.156 --> 01:29:47.116

Phil: And in Yakuza Zero and Kiwami, they've made these overt references to Drakuei, as it's called in Japan, Dragon Quest.

01:29:48.416 --> 01:29:50.376

Phil: And basically, it's Yakuza.

01:29:50.516 --> 01:29:57.956

Phil: It's got enduring characters with loyalties to authority that aren't earned.

01:29:57.976 --> 01:29:59.696

Phil: Essentially, it's another orphan story.

01:30:02.276 --> 01:30:08.416

Phil: So it's like Yakuza in every other way, except when you get into battle, instead of brawling, it's now a turn-based RPG.

01:30:08.476 --> 01:30:09.336

Phil: You've got a team.

01:30:10.396 --> 01:30:11.496

Phil: They can cast spells.

01:30:11.836 --> 01:30:13.896

Phil: They can heal each other.

01:30:15.036 --> 01:30:17.296

Phil: You fight, then the other team fights.

01:30:17.776 --> 01:30:19.996

Phil: It's a turn-based RPG.

01:30:21.796 --> 01:30:22.836

Phil: And it's spectacular.

01:30:22.916 --> 01:30:24.956

Phil: I mean, they've done an outstanding job with it.

01:30:24.976 --> 01:30:29.156

Phil: It's actually very, very good and enjoyable.

01:30:31.156 --> 01:30:33.476

Phil: And it's been ridiculously successful.

01:30:37.196 --> 01:30:55.516

Phil: So as has their PC conversion of the Kiwami games and everything else, so basically they wanted to bring judgment to PC, but the lead actor in that game, he's represented by a talent agency, and the talent agency is saying, no, that wasn't a part of the original contract.

01:30:55.536 --> 01:30:58.376

Phil: You can't release judgment on PC.

01:31:00.876 --> 01:31:04.336

Phil: And as a result, Sega has turned around and said, well, we're not going to release judgment.

01:31:04.616 --> 01:31:14.056

Phil: I mean, we'll do the current judgment game, we'll release it for the consoles, but after that, it's not going to be financially viable for us unless we can release it on the PC.

01:31:14.656 --> 01:31:21.956

Phil: So what's not known is how much of this is posturing and negotiation.

01:31:24.456 --> 01:31:38.236

Phil: The talent agency for the lead actor in the game, because it's not just his voice, but also his likeness that is used, they're known to be very controlling and protective and anti-internet, whatever that means, or anti-PC.

01:31:38.256 --> 01:31:43.556

Phil: And obviously PC in Japan has a different connotation to what it does in the Western world.

01:31:44.176 --> 01:31:50.336

Phil: Most PC games in Japan have a darker side, more sexually oriented.

01:31:51.716 --> 01:32:03.616

Phil: They might be trying to protect their talent because they don't want people to rip out the character model and make him nude and do a David Cage type thing with him.

01:32:03.636 --> 01:32:04.916

Phil: They might be very protective of him.

01:32:04.956 --> 01:32:10.116

Phil: If they didn't cover a PC release in the original contract, then they're entitled to protect their client.

01:32:11.796 --> 01:32:13.476

Phil: Why Sega would say...

01:32:13.496 --> 01:32:18.276

Tom: To put it simply, as part of their PC-ness, they're very anti-PC.

01:32:18.496 --> 01:32:19.376

Phil: That's right.

01:32:19.396 --> 01:32:27.996

Phil: I don't know if Sega is saying this, that we're not going to release any more judgements as a negotiating chip, because obviously they could just change the lead character.

01:32:29.116 --> 01:32:39.996

Phil: The lead actor that plays the character in Japan is very famous and well known, and obviously his role has contributed to the success of the game.

01:32:40.716 --> 01:32:46.336

Phil: But ultimately, the game's success can survive without that guy.

01:32:47.216 --> 01:32:55.156

Phil: This is really just Sega screaming desperately to try and release these games on PC, because it's such good revenue for them.

01:32:56.396 --> 01:33:13.736

Phil: I'm not blaming either side, but after they've said that Yakuza from now on is going to be a turn-based RPG and that Judgment is going to be the brawler, that was pretty much how Sega was setting things up so that everyone could have their cake and eat it too.

01:33:15.176 --> 01:33:17.936

Phil: But any other questions about Yakuza Like a Dragon?

01:33:19.816 --> 01:33:22.836

Tom: Well, isn't it a bit disappointing that it is an RPG though?

01:33:22.856 --> 01:33:43.396

Tom: Because while Yakuza was always compared to Grand Theft Auto and sometimes indeed to RPGs, it was a totally unique mix of beat-em-up RPG, sort of open world in the one package that was actually unlike any other game.

01:33:43.396 --> 01:33:53.936

Tom: If you do change the combat to turn-based RPG style combat, is that not perhaps making it a little less unique and interesting?

01:33:53.976 --> 01:33:56.476

Phil: I'd say it's making it more unique and interesting.

01:33:56.496 --> 01:33:58.396

Phil: And I was skeptical when I came into this.

01:33:58.396 --> 01:34:01.936

Phil: I was very skeptical when I came into this, which is why I delayed buying it.

01:34:03.996 --> 01:34:09.796

Phil: But in every other way, up until you get into a battle, this is a Yakuza game.

01:34:10.256 --> 01:34:10.716

Phil: Nothing has changed.

01:34:10.736 --> 01:34:11.576

Phil: Nothing has changed.

01:34:11.696 --> 01:34:14.596

Phil: Everything is exactly the same as a previous Yakuza game.

01:34:15.656 --> 01:34:19.376

Phil: Only an evolution of, you know, like every game got better.

01:34:20.016 --> 01:34:22.236

Phil: It's only when you go into battle that it's turn-based.

01:34:22.596 --> 01:34:23.936

Phil: And if...

01:34:23.976 --> 01:34:32.536

Tom: But when you do go into battle, is one of the unique and interesting things, because that aspect of it is the world exploration structure of an RPG.

01:34:32.736 --> 01:34:35.336

Tom: Yet when you get into a battle, it is not an RPG.

01:34:35.356 --> 01:34:39.616

Phil: But the world exploration is less RPG and more...

01:34:39.636 --> 01:34:41.476

Phil: I don't even know what it is.

01:34:43.596 --> 01:34:55.436

Phil: In the battle, because I'm an experienced player of Yakuza, like actually that was the most boring part of the game for me, because I just basically go in there and I knew all of the combos, and I'd press the combos and get out of it.

01:34:55.456 --> 01:35:12.196

Phil: So for me, changing it up and making it be not just you versus the world, but to have four different characters, each with different strengths and weaknesses, and then looking at the enemies uniquely, because the enemies are also not just there to be beaten up.

01:35:12.236 --> 01:35:15.276

Phil: I mean, they're all different as well, just like in an RPG.

01:35:15.296 --> 01:35:20.456

Phil: So it actually increases the interest in battle.

01:35:21.876 --> 01:35:29.436

Phil: For someone who basically treated the battles before as something that had to be gotten through, because they weren't a challenge at all.

01:35:30.256 --> 01:35:44.616

Phil: So one interesting thing that they have, which has probably become commonplace in turn-based RPGs, is basically you press L2 to turn the battle onto auto.

01:35:45.416 --> 01:35:56.676

Phil: So if you come up against enemies that are lower ranked than you, and you know it's going to be a pretty perfunctory thing, you can just press L2 and they'll go through the battle for you.

01:35:57.096 --> 01:36:08.796

Phil: Which sounds completely boring, but in this multi-screen environment in which we all live, it's kind of a welcome respite where you can just sort of do something else for a little while.

01:36:08.916 --> 01:36:13.096

Phil: Which, this is crazy, we're playing video games as a distraction from the real world.

01:36:13.096 --> 01:36:15.876

Phil: So you shouldn't want to jump back into the real world for a little while.

01:36:16.636 --> 01:36:26.376

Phil: So possibly the best thing about the auto battle is when you're in a big battle and then you get down to the last guy and you're like, okay, you know, I don't need to think about this.

01:36:26.396 --> 01:36:29.676

Phil: You can just press L2 and have a drink or something.

01:36:30.556 --> 01:36:32.816

Phil: Or grab some food or something and then come back to it.

01:36:33.916 --> 01:36:36.176

Phil: But yeah, I mean, Like a Dragon is great.

01:36:36.196 --> 01:36:37.116

Phil: It's a good experience.

01:36:38.376 --> 01:36:39.856

Phil: I think I'm about 19 hours in.

01:36:39.876 --> 01:36:41.996

Phil: I'm not sure how long this game is going to be.

01:36:42.376 --> 01:36:47.796

Phil: I think I'm on chapter five or six and it's probably going to be 22 chapters like most Yakuza games are.

01:36:49.036 --> 01:36:49.816

Phil: But overall...

01:36:49.836 --> 01:36:51.676

Tom: It'll be long if it's like the other ones.

01:36:52.156 --> 01:36:53.736

Phil: Yes, yeah, exactly.

01:36:54.696 --> 01:36:57.776

Phil: So, but yeah, positive experience and people are loving it.

01:36:58.416 --> 01:37:01.376

Phil: It's been a great entry point for people who have never played the game before.

01:37:02.316 --> 01:37:02.616

Tom: Um...

01:37:03.816 --> 01:37:11.176

Phil: Yeah, so again, I'm feeling my culture being appropriated again, uh, with another thing taken away from me.

01:37:13.256 --> 01:37:49.396

Tom: I think it's quite interesting the whole, um, PC fiasco one gets the sense that it has been massively successful on PC just judging by the number of people in my friend list anyway and other people that I know who have played it on PC, who did not previously play it on console, even if they had a Sony console, so it's interesting seeing that that is probably the case, that it has been as, probably equally successful in terms of sales on PC as it has been on the console.

01:37:50.196 --> 01:37:55.196

Phil: Yeah, I think on the consoles too, because they do have a current gen, that i.e.

01:37:55.336 --> 01:38:04.496

Phil: Xbox series or PlayStation 5 version, there's not a lot of games to buy, so it's succeeded there a little bit as well.

01:38:06.416 --> 01:38:18.536

Phil: I'm playing it on the PlayStation 4, I've got to say it's probably a step back from Yakuza Kiwami and Yakuza Zero in terms of its load time and appearance, probably because it was being optimized for the current gen.

01:38:20.096 --> 01:38:26.996

Phil: But it doesn't bother me, I mean it's still miles ahead of where Yakuza used to be in those elements.

01:38:30.476 --> 01:38:39.616

Phil: So, an unequivocal must buy, I would say, if you like the Yakuza world and you have time to play an RPG.

01:38:40.536 --> 01:38:44.636

Phil: I'd love to play it on the Switch, I'd love to have the flexibility of playing it on a portable platform.

01:38:47.376 --> 01:38:48.556

Phil: it's not available on Switch.

01:38:50.916 --> 01:38:52.196

Tom: nor will it apparently be...

01:38:52.276 --> 01:38:55.536

Tom: Wait, no, it is on Steam, isn't it?

01:38:55.556 --> 01:38:57.296

Tom: So you could play it on Steamdeck.

01:38:57.316 --> 01:39:00.316

Phil: Yeah, I could, but again, not being sold in Australia.

01:39:00.816 --> 01:39:01.676

Phil: I want to go back to that.

01:39:01.876 --> 01:39:13.656

Phil: Just to give you an idea of what the price could be, the stupid Atari VCS, which is a horrible, horrible reinvention of the Atari, retails in the States for like $450.

01:39:13.876 --> 01:39:15.656

Phil: Down here, it's close to $900.

01:39:16.656 --> 01:39:18.036

Phil: Because it hasn't been released here.

01:39:18.336 --> 01:39:20.596

Phil: It's just like being imported and sold.

01:39:21.616 --> 01:39:27.316

Phil: So that's, I mean, look, I want a Steamdeck, but I don't want to pay $1200 for one.

01:39:27.576 --> 01:39:27.956

Phil: You know?

01:39:29.336 --> 01:39:32.956

Tom: I think the Valve Index, for example, is something like $3,000 here.

01:39:33.076 --> 01:39:34.136

Tom: If you want to get one from eBay.

01:39:34.156 --> 01:39:34.856

Phil: That's crazy.

01:39:36.316 --> 01:39:42.516

Phil: I mean, it's, you know, people spend whatever you want to spend, but like, would I spend $800 on it?

01:39:42.896 --> 01:39:43.756

Phil: Yeah, no problem.

01:39:44.236 --> 01:39:46.896

Phil: But I'm not going to spend $1,200 on like the top one.

01:39:47.536 --> 01:39:50.136

Phil: Yeah, it's going to be...

01:39:50.156 --> 01:39:59.636

Phil: And I've got to say this to people that the difference is, is that, well, I've got a PC that's capable of playing all this, so why would I want a handheld?

01:40:00.816 --> 01:40:07.516

Phil: Just because of the environment in which I live, I can't sit down in front of a computer for two hours and play a video game.

01:40:08.616 --> 01:40:11.776

Phil: Particularly when I've been at work for 10 hours sitting in front of a PC.

01:40:11.796 --> 01:40:14.556

Phil: The last thing I want to do is come home and sit in front of another PC.

01:40:15.876 --> 01:40:23.836

Phil: And I like the idea of it being console-ized because it doesn't have all the distractions that my PC is delivering up to me.

01:40:25.576 --> 01:40:30.516

Phil: I'm not going to be getting instant messages and emails and tempted to read the news and stuff like that.

01:40:30.536 --> 01:40:32.276

Phil: I'll just be concentrated on playing.

01:40:32.856 --> 01:40:35.316

Phil: But that is the last thing I'll say about the Steamdeck.

01:40:36.856 --> 01:40:41.236

Phil: I think there's another game we both want to play about, and what's it called?

01:40:41.416 --> 01:40:46.976

Tom: I would add, though, you should try Steam Link with your phone or something like that.

01:40:47.736 --> 01:40:50.996

Phil: I have tried Steam Link and playing on the Android itself.

01:40:51.896 --> 01:40:54.896

Phil: It's just a matter of how do I do that and get it on the TV.

01:40:55.436 --> 01:41:03.016

Phil: But keep in mind, you know, in a shared home, a TV is not my exclusive domain.

01:41:03.216 --> 01:41:14.976

Phil: So that's one of the benefits of these portable platforms, is that, you know, something else can be on the TV, but I could still be with my family, you know, playing on a portable device.

01:41:15.676 --> 01:41:16.036

Phil: So...

01:41:17.216 --> 01:41:19.656

Phil: But what was the name of the other game that we wanted to play?

01:41:20.316 --> 01:41:21.156

Tom: Not Tonight.

01:41:21.296 --> 01:41:22.516

Phil: Oh, you don't want to do it tonight?

01:41:24.256 --> 01:41:24.596

Tom: Yes.

01:41:25.396 --> 01:41:26.556

Phil: But what was the name of the game?

01:41:27.576 --> 01:41:28.896

Tom: I think it was Not Tonight.

01:41:28.996 --> 01:41:33.196

Phil: I get that you're short on time, and, you know, we have done this podcast in a long time.

01:41:33.216 --> 01:41:35.396

Phil: But before I forget, what was the name of the game?

01:41:37.396 --> 01:41:42.256

Tom: If you would have saved a little bit more Dragon energy, you might have been able to get it.

01:41:42.276 --> 01:41:42.756

Phil: That's true.

01:41:43.696 --> 01:41:44.556

Tom: Sadly, you didn't.

01:41:45.076 --> 01:41:51.556

Phil: Well, the final thing we'll be talking about tonight is a game developed by Panic Bam Pub.

01:41:54.896 --> 01:41:56.596

Phil: The developer is Panic Bam.

01:41:56.616 --> 01:41:57.876

Phil: The publisher is no more.

01:41:57.896 --> 01:41:59.696

Tom: I think it's Panic Bam, isn't it?

01:42:01.436 --> 01:42:01.816

Tom: Yes.

01:42:03.776 --> 01:42:05.356

Phil: The publisher is no more Robots.

01:42:06.496 --> 01:42:09.416

Phil: No more Robots is a really good publisher, I should say.

01:42:09.476 --> 01:42:11.256

Phil: And the name of the game is not tonight.

01:42:12.096 --> 01:42:17.116

Phil: No more Robots published, Hypnospace Outlaw and New Lexico.

01:42:17.136 --> 01:42:19.496

Phil: New Lexico is a dirt bike game.

01:42:20.736 --> 01:42:22.276

Phil: They're a real up and coming publisher.

01:42:22.296 --> 01:42:23.936

Phil: They're kind of a devolver junior.

01:42:23.996 --> 01:42:29.476

Phil: I see them because they're developing these edgy, but very well made games.

01:42:29.676 --> 01:42:37.056

Phil: Like New Lexico is apparently great, and Hypnospace Outlaw I played for some time, but burnt out on.

01:42:37.836 --> 01:42:44.996

Phil: But Not Tonight is basically a work simulator, which is very close in many ways to Papers, Please.

01:42:45.516 --> 01:42:48.616

Phil: And has some overt references to Papers, Please.

01:42:50.716 --> 01:42:52.616

Phil: And you're basically working...

01:42:53.296 --> 01:42:58.116

Phil: It was funny because you had sent me a code for this to play on Steam.

01:42:59.216 --> 01:43:03.996

Phil: And it's the opening screen basically has a...

01:43:05.996 --> 01:43:06.716

Phil: What do you call it?

01:43:06.736 --> 01:43:09.936

Phil: A Ferris wheel that's knocked over.

01:43:11.136 --> 01:43:16.436

Phil: And it's very clearly Britain, because you can see the pickle building in the background and Big Ben and all that sort of thing.

01:43:16.476 --> 01:43:25.316

Phil: And I went, oh, this is going to be about Brexit, because I saw the Ferris wheel as being like the Eurostar symbol, and something's gone wrong in a rye in Britain.

01:43:25.356 --> 01:43:26.496

Phil: It's going to be about Brexit.

01:43:27.596 --> 01:43:30.156

Phil: And then it is about Brexit.

01:43:30.596 --> 01:43:40.176

Phil: You're living in a post-Brexit world where nationalism is the default philosophy.

01:43:40.716 --> 01:43:54.916

Phil: And basically, even though you get to select a character at the very start of the game, and I think all of the characters are essentially people who have been misidentified as foreigners, even though they were born in England.

01:43:55.756 --> 01:43:56.236

Tom: Correct.

01:43:56.256 --> 01:44:02.996

Phil: But due to some clerical error or administration error, you've been identified as being French or whatever.

01:44:04.456 --> 01:44:11.596

Phil: And you have to basically prove your worth by taking on a menial job and living in a slum.

01:44:11.736 --> 01:44:12.536

Tom: As a bouncer.

01:44:12.636 --> 01:44:14.056

Phil: Yep, as a bouncer.

01:44:15.556 --> 01:44:19.156

Phil: And taking on a menial job in a slum.

01:44:21.036 --> 01:44:24.536

Phil: And that's essentially the game.

01:44:25.156 --> 01:44:28.056

Phil: It's a nice little pixel art type game.

01:44:28.916 --> 01:44:30.096

Phil: I loved it so much.

01:44:30.176 --> 01:44:33.676

Phil: I thought this was the best work simulator since Papers, Please.

01:44:33.736 --> 01:44:35.676

Phil: And possibly even slightly better than it.

01:44:35.976 --> 01:44:39.356

Phil: Initially, I thought that I went and bought it on the Switch.

01:44:39.816 --> 01:44:42.916

Phil: Even though I had started playing it on the PC.

01:44:44.756 --> 01:44:46.476

Phil: And then replayed a great amount of it.

01:44:46.756 --> 01:44:49.836

Phil: And basically played the bulk of this on the Switch.

01:44:52.316 --> 01:44:55.436

Tom: And just one other thing on the character creation.

01:44:56.776 --> 01:45:00.396

Tom: The game has an extremely good sense of humour throughout.

01:45:01.016 --> 01:45:11.056

Tom: And one of the things you can choose for your character when you're creating your character, which is all very rudimentary, that one of the great aspects of it is you can choose the voice.

01:45:11.816 --> 01:45:17.116

Tom: And the speech in the game consists of wah-wah-wah, wah-wah-wah, sort of gibberish.

01:45:17.136 --> 01:45:19.396

Phil: Simlish is what most gamers refer to it as.

01:45:19.736 --> 01:45:20.796

Tom: Yes, yes.

01:45:21.436 --> 01:45:32.676

Tom: And just selecting the voice, which ranges from an extremely deep voice to a very high pitched voice, really adds to the humour if you select a ridiculous voice.

01:45:32.856 --> 01:45:42.376

Tom: Probably one that doesn't necessarily fit your character, although I essentially made my character into Neil from The Young Ones.

01:45:42.816 --> 01:45:43.396

Phil: Brilliant.

01:45:44.796 --> 01:45:45.376

Tom: Exactly.

01:45:45.396 --> 01:45:48.576

Tom: Anyway, so...

01:45:51.196 --> 01:45:53.936

Phil: Look, the bits and pieces of this game is absolutely brilliant.

01:45:53.956 --> 01:45:55.916

Phil: You're right, the humour is spot on.

01:45:55.936 --> 01:45:57.496

Phil: The sound effects are amazing.

01:45:57.976 --> 01:46:09.696

Phil: They capture so much of what we think Britain is like that I hope this was made by British people, and that my perception of what Britain is like matches up to this game.

01:46:10.856 --> 01:46:16.356

Phil: You know, obviously like any sort of politically themed game, it's a bit on the nose.

01:46:17.136 --> 01:46:18.596

Phil: You know, there's a lot of...

01:46:19.516 --> 01:46:20.276

Phil: Brexit or...

01:46:20.716 --> 01:46:24.356

Phil: If you're a Brexit or a Remainer, you know, one way or the other, it doesn't matter.

01:46:24.376 --> 01:46:26.576

Phil: The game carries it with very good humour.

01:46:27.816 --> 01:46:34.096

Phil: Sometimes it's a bit heavy handed, but that's what satire is.

01:46:34.356 --> 01:46:36.016

Phil: So basically, you play as a bouncer.

01:46:36.736 --> 01:47:06.856

Tom: And I would just add, actually, to me, the most interesting thing about the game was that it was very un-heavy handed compared to most things on this sort of subject in any other medium, full stop, where it is about essentially ultra-nationalism, where you're playing as a bouncer who is refusing entry to people into bars on things based on where they are from and whether their papers are in order.

01:47:06.876 --> 01:47:07.576

Phil: What they're wearing.

01:47:07.596 --> 01:47:08.516

Tom: And that sort of thing.

01:47:08.756 --> 01:47:09.116

Tom: What's that?

01:47:09.136 --> 01:47:09.896

Phil: What they're wearing.

01:47:10.516 --> 01:47:11.596

Tom: Yep, what's they're wearing.

01:47:11.616 --> 01:47:28.976

Tom: All this sort of stuff, which is actually the opposite of on the nose and heavy handed, because the depiction of most things like that would be, for example, papers please, where you're working at a border and making decisions based on those things.

01:47:28.976 --> 01:47:41.036

Tom: So it's self evident that this is a major obnoxious thing you're doing that has a seriously bad effect on people's lives based on arbitrary measures.

01:47:42.036 --> 01:47:57.616

Tom: By having that occurring at a bar and in a banal, totally normal sort of context is more relevant to the majority of people's lives living under such a sort of system.

01:47:58.376 --> 01:48:13.336

Tom: And I think really makes the whole thing much more interesting and compared to, again, in any medium, is a much more thought provoking and interesting depiction of that sort of arrangement in a society.

01:48:14.276 --> 01:48:20.016

Phil: I would have to say this is the best satirical game.

01:48:20.036 --> 01:48:21.296

Phil: There's probably a better way to say that.

01:48:21.316 --> 01:48:25.496

Phil: But this is the best game based on satire that I've ever seen in my life.

01:48:25.656 --> 01:48:30.436

Phil: And probably the worst is Grand Theft Auto 3 and that series.

01:48:31.136 --> 01:48:34.376

Tom: I think every Grand Theft Auto is horrendous satire.

01:48:34.616 --> 01:48:37.436

Phil: This is a very eloquent game.

01:48:38.416 --> 01:48:40.596

Phil: Very subtle in many, many ways.

01:48:40.896 --> 01:49:17.716

Phil: And the passion that it has for capturing certain environments down to the music, the fashion, the accents of the various people that come to the bars, whether you're at an upper class bar or not, you know, the TOFs that come in, the type of licenses that they have, the kind of privileges that they have, the VIP list, you know, and it's not just skewering, not just the British, but Russians and other cultures and peoples as well, you know, people from Jamaica and such.

01:49:17.736 --> 01:49:29.876

Phil: But it is a very finely tuned game in terms of its appreciation, and I just, I mean, I'm in awe of that component of it, but then when you get to the play mechanic as well.

01:49:30.616 --> 01:49:45.616

Tom: And I would also add there as well, your interactions as a foreign barman, sorry, bouncer with the bosses, depending on what the bosses are like, is also equally fascinating social commentary as well.

01:49:45.636 --> 01:49:47.256

Phil: Yeah, it's just great.

01:49:47.356 --> 01:49:48.136

Phil: It is great.

01:49:49.636 --> 01:49:52.236

Phil: The mechanics of the gameplay are also equally great.

01:49:52.236 --> 01:49:56.756

Phil: I mean, there's a lot of fun to be had with what you're doing, and I really can't fault it.

01:49:58.036 --> 01:50:03.836

Phil: There's a good rhythm to it, and it does get really, really complicated.

01:50:03.856 --> 01:50:27.716

Phil: I mean, like, by the end of it, you've got to keep track of, like, seven or eight different details, whether it be, you know, holograms on licenses or what flags the countries are that you're supposed to be banning from the bar, or what logos they have, or then you have to start body scanning people for weaponry and other contraband, but you also have to get a certain number of people in every night.

01:50:27.736 --> 01:50:31.996

Phil: That's the economic, you know, thing that you're facing.

01:50:32.236 --> 01:50:37.456

Phil: You've got to let a certain number of people in, but you've certain type of people you've got to keep out as well.

01:50:38.136 --> 01:50:43.196

Phil: And if you're not playing the game right, and you're not making enough money, you can die in this game.

01:50:43.296 --> 01:50:45.356

Phil: I mean, you literally can die in the game.

01:50:46.716 --> 01:50:59.056

Phil: Because if you don't buy the stuff, if you're working too hard, and you neglect to eat, or get proper heating for your apartment, or a refrigerator, or the proper bed, you can actually physically die in the game.

01:51:00.416 --> 01:51:03.436

Phil: Which is how I, you know, died early on in the game.

01:51:03.456 --> 01:51:04.336

Phil: I was taken aback.

01:51:04.356 --> 01:51:04.996

Phil: I was like, what?

01:51:06.216 --> 01:51:12.476

Phil: Because I was just working endlessly, like, day after day after day, to earn enough money so I could pay my bills.

01:51:12.576 --> 01:51:14.216

Phil: Because that's the other pressure that's on you.

01:51:14.596 --> 01:51:19.516

Phil: If you don't pay your bills, you don't seem to be a fit citizen, and can be deported.

01:51:20.296 --> 01:51:22.556

Phil: There's just so many threads to this game.

01:51:23.316 --> 01:51:26.236

Phil: And the name of the game we're talking about, again, is Not Tonight.

01:51:28.556 --> 01:51:40.556

Tom: And we should also add then, later on, in addition to that, where you're interacting with resistance members, you then also have to be deliberately breaking certain rules as well.

01:51:41.076 --> 01:51:47.136

Tom: So it becomes a massive amount of things to be juggling all at once by the end of the game.

01:51:47.156 --> 01:51:55.056

Phil: Oh yeah, you're juggling your physical health, you're helping out the resistance, because if you don't, you're going to get, you know, outed.

01:51:55.896 --> 01:52:01.596

Phil: Ultimately, you're getting promoted from a bouncer up into a border patrol person.

01:52:03.116 --> 01:52:06.856

Tom: And you're also potentially selling drugs to make money as well.

01:52:07.116 --> 01:52:08.036

Phil: And the stakes get...

01:52:08.356 --> 01:52:09.376

Tom: And taking bribes.

01:52:09.396 --> 01:52:11.336

Phil: The stakes keep getting higher and higher.

01:52:11.356 --> 01:52:12.996

Phil: And then of course there are regulars.

01:52:13.016 --> 01:52:18.496

Phil: There are people that you bump into who are underage trying to get into the bar time and time again.

01:52:18.516 --> 01:52:20.196

Phil: Do you let them through?

01:52:20.216 --> 01:52:30.456

Phil: You know, you're allowed a certain amount of errors every night, and then it comes down to, well, do I spend one of my errors by letting this character through because I want to see how the story progresses?

01:52:31.576 --> 01:52:33.736

Phil: It's just a wonderfully nuanced...

01:52:33.936 --> 01:52:48.776

Tom: And in addition to that, you get a multiplier on what you're paid for meeting your targets, both on VIP lists and just the number, amount of people you let in, and things like that, as well as in not making errors.

01:52:48.936 --> 01:53:01.216

Tom: And by the end of the game, to be having enough money to do particularly well, you will have to be repeatedly hitting those targets to be getting the money multiplier.

01:53:01.516 --> 01:53:13.236

Tom: Because you also need to not just be buying stuff for your flat, et cetera, to keep healthy, you also need to be decorating it and buying certain clothing for the sake of your reputation as well.

01:53:13.476 --> 01:53:23.416

Phil: I've got to say, also, I would play predominantly on the Switch, and on the Switch, there's actually some control shortcuts that make the game more efficient.

01:53:24.036 --> 01:53:29.716

Phil: Whereas in the game on the PC, you had to drag stuff around with the mouse, so I'm sure there's some shortcuts for that as well.

01:53:30.576 --> 01:53:40.836

Phil: On the Switch, they made it really easy using the trigger buttons and other things to streamline how you could review documents and scan objects and all the rest of it.

01:53:40.856 --> 01:53:56.696

Phil: And I would recommend it for the Switch, but for the one issue that I had with the game, and that is that ultimately this game is so perfect, nuanced, detailed, sensitive, technically great.

01:53:56.916 --> 01:53:58.536

Phil: The music in this game is great.

01:53:58.556 --> 01:54:00.196

Phil: The voice work in this game is great.

01:54:01.636 --> 01:54:06.016

Phil: But unfortunately for me, I found that the game was way too long.

01:54:06.576 --> 01:54:10.036

Phil: I was constantly looking for the end of this game.

01:54:11.236 --> 01:54:12.396

Phil: The playing is perfect.

01:54:12.416 --> 01:54:15.556

Phil: Everything about it is perfect, but the pacing and the length is not.

01:54:16.036 --> 01:54:17.936

Phil: And at least it was for me.

01:54:18.996 --> 01:54:31.456

Phil: And ultimately for me on the Switch, I came to a game ending issue and had a corrupted save and couldn't get to the end of the game.

01:54:32.916 --> 01:54:38.776

Phil: So they basically autosaved a corrupt save for me and then I couldn't get past that point.

01:54:40.376 --> 01:54:46.196

Phil: So I did have that one technical issue by playing it on the Switch, but I would say that that's probably an exception.

01:54:47.956 --> 01:54:51.596

Phil: I wouldn't discourage people from trying it on the Switch just because of that.

01:54:51.816 --> 01:54:54.716

Phil: There must have been something unique about that.

01:54:55.696 --> 01:54:57.976

Phil: But how did you find the length of this game?

01:55:00.236 --> 01:55:14.896

Tom: Just on the save issue thing there, it is also a little bit awkward how these saves work, if I remember correctly, because if you want to rewind to a certain point, you then also have to create a new save slot, if I remember correctly.

01:55:14.896 --> 01:55:17.936

Phil: And you do have to start the whole day over.

01:55:17.956 --> 01:55:22.916

Phil: You can't just save periodically and then pick up.

01:55:24.036 --> 01:55:34.696

Phil: Of course, on the Switch, you can just suspend play and come back to it later, but that's never a good thing to rely on, especially if Nintendo deems that your Switch is due for an update.

01:55:35.716 --> 01:55:43.276

Phil: So yeah, the save is one of the downfalls of the game, which is unfortunate because in every other way, it's pretty good.

01:55:44.476 --> 01:55:46.776

Phil: But again, what did you think about the pacing and length?

01:55:47.796 --> 01:56:31.836

Tom: In terms of the pacing and length, to me, the middle, there was a bit of a lag in it before they started introducing much more complicated mechanics and you having to take track of several mutually contradicting objectives at each level, that section of the game lagged a bit to me, but by the time I was into the last couple of chapters or last few chapters, it didn't feel too long to me just because the gameplay was so enjoyable in a tactile sense, but there was so much going on that achieving things was supremely satisfying, but I did not really mind that it went on for a long time at all.

01:56:32.416 --> 01:56:42.656

Tom: So I think there was a lull in the middle of it for me, but towards the end, I was probably enjoying it more than at any other point in the game in terms of gameplay.

01:56:42.676 --> 01:56:43.236

Phil: Oh, definitely.

01:56:43.256 --> 01:56:45.196

Phil: I mean, the gameplay does improve as it goes.

01:56:45.216 --> 01:56:57.456

Phil: I just think there was probably five pubs that you worked your way through before they revealed the next evolution in what you were doing, and that probably could have been like three pubs.

01:56:57.476 --> 01:56:59.336

Phil: I think two would have been not enough.

01:57:00.296 --> 01:57:09.196

Tom: Or rather than cutting down on the number of pubs, there are quite a few occasions where there are days on which nothing relevant happens to the narrative.

01:57:09.256 --> 01:57:10.236

Phil: That's right, yeah.

01:57:10.536 --> 01:57:14.316

Tom: So it could have been perhaps cut down in that sense a little bit.

01:57:14.336 --> 01:57:17.396

Phil: Yep, and there's plenty of customization in this game.

01:57:17.736 --> 01:57:20.556

Phil: You can customize your apartment, your character, the clothes.

01:57:20.876 --> 01:57:27.176

Phil: There's all sorts of upgrades that you can do to keep you entertained along the way.

01:57:27.196 --> 01:57:30.616

Phil: But yeah, that's pretty much all I've got to say about this game.

01:57:32.096 --> 01:57:33.976

Phil: But certainly one you would recommend.

01:57:35.296 --> 01:57:35.916

Tom: Absolutely.

01:57:36.636 --> 01:57:51.156

Tom: As I said, it is one of the most interesting handlings of that sort of topic and one of the most thought provoking in a way that you don't get in other mediums, but rings absolutely true.

01:57:51.876 --> 01:58:10.836

Tom: Just get to take a easy example of this is, if you take, for example, something like segregation, whether it's apartheid or in America, there is, of course, terrorism against the populace in which people are being killed and tortured and that sort of thing.

01:58:11.056 --> 01:58:21.836

Tom: But for the vast majority of people experiencing life like that, it is in just simple things like trying to get into a bar and that sort of thing.

01:58:22.356 --> 01:58:32.596

Tom: So I think handling the topic in that way was absolutely fascinating and extraordinarily rare to find in any medium.

01:58:33.016 --> 01:58:34.496

Phil: So the name of the game is Not Tonight.

01:58:34.516 --> 01:58:38.256

Phil: I don't know what platforms it's available on, but I do know for sure it's on PC and Switch.

01:58:38.976 --> 01:58:41.596

Phil: And I'd certainly recommend you give it a try as well.

01:58:45.356 --> 01:59:00.576

Phil: Okay, so with that, we're going to close it out here, but I've got to say before we go, and we've saved plenty for the next episode, there's been quite a bit of a few shows, a few bit of content that you put up there since our last episode.

01:59:00.596 --> 01:59:05.096

Phil: You've got your review of the book Ready Player One, which was-

01:59:05.456 --> 01:59:07.376

Tom: Did we have that before the last episode?

01:59:07.456 --> 01:59:12.736

Phil: You're right, but you did talk about Cloudpunk, City of Ghosts, you did a review of that.

01:59:13.976 --> 01:59:22.536

Tom: I did indeed, and it's also somewhat of a review of Cyberpunk simultaneously as well, and Cyberpunk in general.

01:59:23.976 --> 01:59:28.656

Phil: Certainly worth a read, so that was the Cloudpunk City of Ghosts review at gameunder.net.

01:59:28.916 --> 01:59:33.156

Phil: You can just basically go to the front page and scroll down there or go straight to the review section.

01:59:34.356 --> 01:59:36.936

Phil: Then you also did a review of...

01:59:39.236 --> 01:59:40.436

Phil: My mouse is freaking out.

01:59:43.056 --> 01:59:54.956

Phil: You also did a review of Omno demo, Omno of the demo impressions, and it looks a lot like to me like a Cubivore meets No Man's Sky, meets...

01:59:55.616 --> 01:59:59.076

Phil: I don't know what, meets Viva Piñata.

02:00:00.716 --> 02:00:08.736

Tom: Graphically, that is definitely what it is like, but in terms of gameplay, it is actually based on the very brief demo anyway.

02:00:10.536 --> 02:00:18.616

Tom: Something in the line of probably just a 3D platformer, but with some action adventure twists to it.

02:00:18.796 --> 02:00:22.196

Phil: So there's no mating element like Viva Piñata or Cubivore?

02:00:22.356 --> 02:00:24.176

Tom: No, not so far, unfortunately.

02:00:24.196 --> 02:00:26.676

Phil: Okay, maybe that's to come.

02:00:27.056 --> 02:00:28.756

Phil: And then finally, you reviewed...

02:00:28.816 --> 02:00:29.996

Phil: Is that pronounced Inglot?

02:00:31.576 --> 02:00:33.096

Tom: I have no idea how it's pronounced.

02:00:33.116 --> 02:00:34.496

Phil: I would say it's Inglot.

02:00:35.336 --> 02:00:37.616

Tom: Yeah, that's how I pronounce it as well.

02:00:38.596 --> 02:00:39.616

Phil: Very interesting.

02:00:39.996 --> 02:00:41.836

Tom: I do not know how it is pronounced.

02:00:41.856 --> 02:00:49.836

Tom: The game is, however, Danish, but I think the person who made it is Swedish, but now working in Denmark.

02:00:50.576 --> 02:00:52.296

Phil: Is it a shooter?

02:00:52.556 --> 02:00:55.616

Phil: Like an old school shooter style thing?

02:00:56.656 --> 02:01:02.156

Tom: It is also a platformer, but in this case a 2D platformer.

02:01:02.296 --> 02:01:26.696

Tom: It works in a very unique way, where instead of moving through a level in which you jump over gaps between platforms, you are jumping from what are essentially bubbles to other bubbles using momentum and a dash mechanic, as well as bouncing off various walls or dashing off some of them.

02:01:26.716 --> 02:01:35.136

Tom: It is a completely unique experience that is surprisingly deep in terms of gameplay.

02:01:35.156 --> 02:01:48.956

Tom: There are some bonus levels in there that are really difficult and show off some of the interesting and crazy things you can do when you figure out how the mechanics work.

02:01:48.976 --> 02:01:54.216

Tom: Aesthetically, it is visually and in terms of sound, incredible.

02:01:55.636 --> 02:02:03.796

Tom: You can tell that just by looking at the screenshots to some degree, but as you're moving through the level, little things change throughout.

02:02:04.196 --> 02:02:08.916

Tom: To get the full impression of how great it looks, it is well worth playing.

02:02:08.936 --> 02:02:12.796

Tom: The sound is described as being algorithmic music.

02:02:13.736 --> 02:02:32.436

Tom: It does alter as you're going along and interacting with things in the game, but I would suggest that that is probably a bit of marketing hype there because it doesn't necessarily alter too much compared to games like Diad or even stuff like Euphoria.

02:02:32.616 --> 02:02:34.656

Phil: So is it like progressive prog rock?

02:02:36.056 --> 02:02:44.336

Tom: No, it is electronica, but when you get to a bubble or you move quickly and things like that, things in the music will change.

02:02:44.556 --> 02:02:48.596

Phil: I've been listening to prog rock lately and I think that would match the aesthetic of that game.

02:02:48.696 --> 02:02:50.696

Phil: It looks absolutely captivating.

02:02:50.716 --> 02:02:55.656

Phil: Again, the name of the game is Inglot, spelled Y-N-G-L-E-T.

02:02:55.676 --> 02:02:57.116

Phil: It's available on PC.

02:02:57.876 --> 02:03:09.456

Tom: So given that it is Danish and it is the world map weirdly and parts of the levels have references to places in Denmark, maybe it would actually be Yinglet.

02:03:09.776 --> 02:03:10.696

Phil: Yinglet, okay.

02:03:11.236 --> 02:03:13.116

Phil: Y-N-G-L-E-T.

02:03:13.176 --> 02:03:16.316

Phil: I mean, on the basis of the artwork itself, it's certainly worth a look.

02:03:17.296 --> 02:03:21.096

Phil: With that, we'll close out episode 136 of The Game Under Podcast.

02:03:21.116 --> 02:03:21.636

Phil: I have been...

02:03:21.656 --> 02:03:23.676

Phil: I realise I haven't introduced myself.

02:03:24.296 --> 02:03:30.396

Phil: This mysterious voice you've been hearing is that of Phil Fogg, and I've been joined by my co-host, Mr.

02:03:30.416 --> 02:03:31.176

Phil: Tom Towers.

02:03:31.896 --> 02:03:37.096

Tom: World renowned food critic, and I don't think I gave my final impressions of the cheeseburger, did I?

02:03:37.116 --> 02:03:37.296

Phil: No.

02:03:37.496 --> 02:03:39.076

Phil: We'll have to save that for next time.

02:03:39.576 --> 02:03:40.236

Tom: No, we won't.

02:03:40.256 --> 02:03:41.196

Tom: We will have to quickly...

02:03:41.336 --> 02:03:43.756

Tom: We can't do this to our loyal listeners.

02:03:43.856 --> 02:03:44.876

Phil: Oh, yes, we can.

02:03:45.716 --> 02:03:46.456

Tom: No, we can't.

02:03:47.016 --> 02:03:56.456

Tom: It was indeed a surprisingly satisfying meal, full of energy as you would expect from something so fatty and salty.

02:03:57.516 --> 02:04:02.556

Tom: And I was originally going to make potentially a pizza after this, but I don't think I will be now.

Phil: So your soul and your stomach is satisfied.

Phil: Correct.

Phil: With this healthy meal from McDonald's.

Phil: I know if I were in your shoes, I'm loving it.

Tom: I am indeed.

Phil: Do do do do do. (Hums the McDonalds Theme)

Game Under Podcast 135

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Trademark Banter

0:01:34 Australian Politicians

0:02:56 Tom's Taste Test

Introduction

0:12.10 Welcome to the Show

First Impressions - Tom Towers

0:13:00 Sky: Season of Assembly - Beta

Gaming Trivia Quiz

0:25:20 Plastics

0:29:24 Tom Turns the Trivia Tables

Final Impressions - Tom Towers

0:32:53 I Dream of You and Ice Cream - PC

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg

1:02:00 Super Hot (PC)

Final Impressions - Tom Towers

1:10:30 Tom Reviews Phil's Review of Ken Williams' (Sierra Online)

Rare Full Version of Game Under Podcast Theme

1:23:00 In Tribute to Al Lowe

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:10.420 --> 00:00:14.720

Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode 135 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:14.740 --> 00:00:19.340

Phil: I am your co-host, Tom Towers, or Phil Fogg, you be the judge.

00:00:19.740 --> 00:00:22.080

Phil: I think I'm Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by...

00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:24.340

Tom: I hope you're Phil Fogg.

00:00:25.340 --> 00:00:27.520

Tom: I really hope you're Phil Fogg, for my sake.

00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:29.600

Phil: Are you wearing a mask right now?

00:00:30.060 --> 00:00:30.720

Tom: No, I'm not.

00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:36.260

Phil: You know, my state mandated the use of masks across the whole state three days ago.

00:00:36.540 --> 00:00:40.920

Phil: We have to keep wearing masks until they tell us to stop wearing them.

00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:42.240

Tom: We've done that here before.

00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:45.640

Phil: Was it statewide, though, or just to your municipality?

00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:47.300

Tom: No, statewide, I'm pretty sure.

00:00:47.800 --> 00:00:49.480

Phil: It's not great, I can tell you that much.

00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:51.620

Phil: It's not fun wearing this stupid mask.

00:00:52.260 --> 00:00:53.140

Tom: You get used to it.

00:00:53.400 --> 00:00:56.780

Phil: So you may have some audio infidelity with this episode.

00:00:57.580 --> 00:01:02.700

Tom: Well, depending on where you're recording, I do believe you may not need to be presently wearing it.

00:01:03.160 --> 00:01:05.120

Phil: I'm recording this in Studio B.

00:01:05.980 --> 00:01:09.380

Phil: There's no one else here present, so I guess I could take it off.

00:01:10.160 --> 00:01:11.880

Tom: I think you can, in fact, take it off.

00:01:11.900 --> 00:01:15.120

Phil: Alright, well, if you want to get something to eat, I'm going to just take off my mask.

00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:18.360

Tom: You sound significantly different.

00:01:18.740 --> 00:01:21.980

Phil: Yes, I can assure you, I'm very different.

00:01:23.320 --> 00:01:24.220

Tom: Please put it back on.

00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:29.720

Phil: Alright, so enough corona hijinks.

00:01:30.860 --> 00:01:36.640

Phil: You're listening to Australia's longest running video game podcast because you just love to hear us talk about the hottest new games.

00:01:36.860 --> 00:01:46.340

Tom: On the topic of politics, by the way, I think, I just have to say, there's currently a lot of controversy going on in the Australian Parliament at the moment.

00:01:47.040 --> 00:02:11.460

Tom: And I am very disappointed in the Australian population because I have not come across a single joke, sex-related joke, about how masturbating at one's work or engaging in sexual intercourse in a confessional or any of that sort of thing might actually make a politician more sympathetic than they otherwise would be.

00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:14.080

Phil: Well, I must have missed a few stories.

00:02:14.100 --> 00:02:20.780

Phil: The only one I saw was the guy who was texting and engaging with a prostitute while he was sitting in parliament.

00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:22.700

Tom: That's just the latest one.

00:02:23.720 --> 00:02:33.680

Tom: There's been a lot more relatable content that has just been missed by the current Australian population, unfortunately.

00:02:34.020 --> 00:02:36.720

Phil: Yeah, well, there's not a lot of humour going around much anymore.

00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:37.780

Phil: I don't know if you've noticed that.

00:02:38.140 --> 00:02:40.740

Phil: Yeah, well, they're more relatable now, I guess.

00:02:41.500 --> 00:02:53.200

Tom: Now that they're relatable, we can't make fun of them because I think that it has never been a defining characteristic of Australian humour, which is self-deprecating or banter among friends.

00:02:53.620 --> 00:02:55.320

Tom: So that would make even less sense.

00:02:56.160 --> 00:03:06.940

Tom: But we will now be returning to the important, most important gaming topic that I think has graced gaming culture over the past two decades.

00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:13.840

Tom: And we previously had me trying Mountain Dew Energized version.

00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:20.140

Tom: And I've been attempting to buy the non-energized version of Mountain Dew.

00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.340

Tom: But I have failed to find it anywhere.

00:03:23.820 --> 00:03:28.000

Tom: So I'm not sure if it has actually been officially released in Australia.

00:03:28.440 --> 00:03:31.640

Phil: I think they've just changed the name to Mountain Dew Energized.

00:03:32.880 --> 00:03:39.900

Phil: Because everywhere I look now, after you brought that up in the last show, everywhere I see it, it has that little Energized catch tag on the bottom.

00:03:40.100 --> 00:03:42.580

Phil: So I think you are actually drinking the right thing.

00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:43.900

Phil: It's not an energy drink.

00:03:43.920 --> 00:03:46.840

Phil: You're drinking the caffeinated soda known as Mountain Dew.

00:03:47.160 --> 00:03:49.980

Tom: Okay, so it's merely a rebranding exercise.

00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:50.480

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:03:50.620 --> 00:03:51.980

Phil: Or augmentation, yes.

00:03:52.260 --> 00:03:52.620

Tom: Yes.

00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:07.980

Tom: But I did manage to find what I think, I'm pretty sure at some point, was also floating around gaming communities in America, not so much in Australia, a packet of Doritos Cool Ranch.

00:04:08.200 --> 00:04:08.960

Phil: Oh, wow.

00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:10.860

Phil: So those are in Australia now?

00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:12.180

Tom: Apparently.

00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:13.080

Phil: That's great.

00:04:13.320 --> 00:04:15.020

Phil: So you've had some.

00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:17.680

Tom: Well, I'm about to on air.

00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:20.120

Phil: They've got the little green and red dots on them, right?

00:04:20.420 --> 00:04:20.920

Tom: Correct.

00:04:21.100 --> 00:04:22.000

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:04:22.020 --> 00:04:26.280

Phil: And then you've got the base of ranch across the whole chip.

00:04:26.340 --> 00:04:29.840

Phil: Well, I'm glad we've been doing this show for like nine years now.

00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:30.780

Phil: We're in our ninth season.

00:04:31.420 --> 00:04:34.680

Phil: We're finally getting to eating Doritos and Mountain Dew on the air.

00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:41.960

Phil: The area that Giant Bomb originated probably less than nine years ago.

00:04:42.020 --> 00:04:42.960

Phil: But anyway, I'm good.

00:04:42.980 --> 00:04:44.000

Phil: I'm glad we're finally here.

00:04:44.220 --> 00:05:11.920

Tom: Well, it's about time we copied another podcast, but I would like to think that unlike Giant Bomb, where that's a side effect of the fact that they are continually consuming Mountain Dew and Doritos of a variety of different flavors, we're doing it as a high brow ASMR segment, a concept neither you nor I understand, but we're willing to venture into unknown territory for us.

00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:14.360

Phil: We waited until the time was right to do it.

00:05:14.900 --> 00:05:15.440

Tom: Exactly.

00:05:15.460 --> 00:05:16.780

Phil: So you haven't eaten it yet?

00:05:17.460 --> 00:05:17.800

Tom: No.

00:05:17.900 --> 00:05:19.960

Phil: Now have you had ranch dressing?

00:05:22.580 --> 00:05:24.900

Tom: Surely I have at some point had ranch dressing.

00:05:25.060 --> 00:05:25.480

Phil: Okay.

00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:28.320

Phil: I've got to tell you, the ranch dressing we have in Australia is excreable.

00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:31.640

Phil: It's more like mayonnaise than proper Hidden Valley Ranch.

00:05:31.760 --> 00:05:34.620

Phil: So it would be interesting to know if they go...

00:05:35.080 --> 00:05:37.440

Phil: I'm sure they go with the real ranch flavor.

00:05:37.760 --> 00:05:43.200

Phil: So you're probably eating the most ranchiest thing in Australia because it's, you know, imported.

00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:43.960

Phil: Cool Ranch.

00:05:44.440 --> 00:05:44.840

Phil: Okay.

00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:47.500

Phil: And is it called Cool American or Cool Ranch?

00:05:47.520 --> 00:05:50.120

Phil: Because I know in Europe it's called Cool American or something.

00:05:50.140 --> 00:05:51.560

Tom: It's called Cool Ranch.

00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:52.220

Phil: Cool Ranch.

00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:52.720

Phil: You're right.

00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:53.540

Phil: Cool Ranch.

00:05:54.000 --> 00:06:14.260

Tom: And something you won't hear on the Giant Bomb Show, but I thought it might be worth pointing out that a single can of Mountain Dew Energized contains 739 kilojoules, which is 8% of one's total daily intake of kilojoules, apparently.

00:06:15.700 --> 00:06:27.500

Tom: Compared to an entire packet of, wait, no, sorry, compared to 100 grams of Cool Ranch Doritos, which are 2130 kilojoules.

00:06:28.580 --> 00:06:29.340

Phil: Sounds good to me.

00:06:29.780 --> 00:06:45.220

Tom: So it seems like if you drank a can of Mountain Dew Energized and ate a packet of about 300 or 400 grams, so two packets of Doritos Cool Ranch, you would have eaten enough for a day, apparently.

00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:46.180

Phil: That's very efficient.

00:06:46.200 --> 00:06:48.280

Phil: I don't know what these homeless people are complaining about.

00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:50.360

Phil: Just eat two bags of ranch and you're set.

00:06:51.580 --> 00:06:52.420

Tom: Come on.

00:06:52.440 --> 00:06:56.300

Tom: That's what they should be giving out at homeless shelters, none of this fucking soup bullshit.

00:06:56.340 --> 00:06:57.580

Phil: This is the future, man.

00:06:57.680 --> 00:06:59.900

Phil: The future is Cool Ranch, hobo.

00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.360

Phil: We've got to get on to a game sooner or later, but I've got another topic about food related.

00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:05.640

Tom: We'll get to that in a moment.

00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:10.400

Tom: First on air, the magic moment of opening the can.

00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:11.000

Tom: All right.

00:07:11.020 --> 00:07:14.460

Phil: That's not bad.

00:07:17.660 --> 00:07:20.560

Phil: Tom Towers is now pouring Mountain Dew into a glass.

00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:26.660

Tom: This isn't Giant Bomb where they fucking scoff it directly from the can like some sort of animal.

00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:27.800

Phil: I think the word is quaff.

00:07:28.700 --> 00:07:30.120

Phil: Did you say quaff or scoff?

00:07:30.520 --> 00:07:31.420

Tom: I said scoff.

00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:35.520

Tom: I'm speaking to our low brow gamer, to general audience.

00:07:35.980 --> 00:07:37.840

Phil: The word is quaff, listeners at home.

00:07:38.300 --> 00:07:39.980

Phil: Q-U-A-F-F.

00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.560

Tom: I don't think that quaffing is anything that would occur on Giant Bomb though.

00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:46.720

Phil: Yeah, quaffing is A-F-F.

00:07:48.580 --> 00:07:49.320

Phil: Oh, now wait.

00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:50.720

Phil: He's going for the chips.

00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:53.720

Phil: Tom Towers is going for the Cool Ranch.

00:07:54.200 --> 00:07:55.860

Phil: I thought he was going to do these separately.

00:07:56.200 --> 00:07:58.060

Phil: Drink the Mountain Dew then the chips.

00:07:58.080 --> 00:07:59.980

Tom: Well, which should I try first?

00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.500

Phil: Go with the ranch and make sure you put it tongue, like get the full covering of your tongue.

00:08:04.520 --> 00:08:07.640

Tom: So I should put my tongue in the packet, Giant Bomb style.

00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:10.520

Phil: No, no, just get the chip.

00:08:10.880 --> 00:08:13.260

Tom: Just stick my head directly into the packet?

00:08:13.460 --> 00:08:21.320

Phil: No, put the triangle so that the point is toward the front of your tongue and the back two corners are at the back of your mouth and then put it on there.

00:08:21.340 --> 00:08:23.840

Phil: Otherwise, you got to put the tab on properly.

00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:25.140

Phil: And then you'll feel it.

00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:29.200

Phil: And then once the chip starts to get moist, crunch down and enjoy.

00:08:29.700 --> 00:08:36.280

Tom: First, I will comment that it smells pretty much like corn.

00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:43.700

Tom: Maybe a slight papadum sort of smell to it as well.

00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:50.600

Tom: Mainly, I would say from the odor of burnt oil or reused old oil.

00:08:51.920 --> 00:08:57.160

Tom: I'm now placing a triangle of corn directly on my tongue.

00:08:57.300 --> 00:08:57.820

Phil: Here we go.

00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:01.620

Phil: This magic moment brought to you by Doritos Cool Ranch.

00:09:03.020 --> 00:09:04.400

Phil: He's going for the second one.

00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:06.220

Phil: He's gone for the second one.

00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:07.440

Phil: You can't have just one.

00:09:07.560 --> 00:09:08.180

Phil: Proven here.

00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:10.220

Phil: Okay, that's enough.

00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:11.140

Phil: Tell us what you think.

00:09:12.140 --> 00:09:14.520

Tom: Following that up with a sip of Mountain Dew first.

00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:19.200

Phil: Take it full and make sure it gets to the back of the mouth.

00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:27.420

Tom: Well, I would have to say that Doritos Cool Ranch essentially tastes like your standard Dorito.

00:09:27.560 --> 00:09:28.760

Tom: It's not as strong.

00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:34.400

Tom: The spices are not as overpowering as your standard Dorito.

00:09:34.420 --> 00:09:40.680

Tom: It's a subtle of flavor, but that is still very much the main taste that it has.

00:09:41.180 --> 00:10:01.140

Tom: What I will say for it, though, is following, once you have swallowed the chip and maybe had a sip of Mountain Dew, you do get a creamy, mayonnaise-y, slightly sweet, very tangy aftertaste that does set it apart from the standard Dorito.

00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:05.840

Phil: It's like putting a yogurt on top of a samosa or something like that.

00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:06.640

Tom: Exactly.

00:10:06.660 --> 00:10:30.540

Tom: And I would say that probably if you were to do what I advised for your daily intake of kilojoules, which was eat two packets of Doritos and drink a single can of Mountain Dew, I think it would be a more pleasant experience to do that with a packet of Doritos Cool Ranch because it is a subtler flavor with a more pleasant aftertaste.

00:10:30.900 --> 00:10:31.740

Phil: Okay, well good.

00:10:31.760 --> 00:10:32.960

Phil: You're on to a winner.

00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:34.000

Phil: I will have to look for this.

00:10:34.260 --> 00:10:37.320

Phil: Were you able to find this at a major grocery store?

00:10:37.740 --> 00:10:38.900

Tom: Yes, I was indeed.

00:10:38.920 --> 00:10:42.800

Phil: Okay, so it should be reaching my regions in about 10 years then.

00:10:43.160 --> 00:10:43.740

Tom: Correct.

00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:48.000

Tom: And I would say that Mountain Dew is indeed a good complement to it.

00:10:48.020 --> 00:10:55.700

Tom: The tanginess of Mountain Dew fits in very nicely with the aftertaste of the Doritos.

00:10:55.900 --> 00:11:08.040

Tom: And the fact that it is not overpoweringly sweet does not interfere with the basic, extremely strong flavor of the standard Dorito taste that is still there.

00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:12.140

Phil: I wonder how it would go for dry champagne after the Dorito.

00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:13.840

Tom: I think it would work well.

00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:19.340

Tom: It would also, I think, work reasonably well with a pink champagne as well.

00:11:20.260 --> 00:11:22.340

Phil: That's enough about snack foods.

00:11:22.520 --> 00:11:25.360

Phil: We've got far more important things to do to talk about today.

00:11:25.380 --> 00:11:27.520

Phil: We're going to be talking about Hotshot Racing, Super Hot.

00:11:27.640 --> 00:11:30.700

Phil: I Dream of You and Ice Cream, which is a game, not a sentiment.

00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:33.020

Phil: You've got a trivia question for me.

00:11:33.040 --> 00:11:35.080

Phil: We're going to talk about Sky, Season of Assembly.

00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.960

Phil: I've got a few political things to say.

00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:43.800

Phil: And we're going to talk about Not Tonight, a game that we've both been thoroughly enjoying or thoroughly playing.

00:11:43.800 --> 00:11:45.040

Phil: I've been thoroughly enjoying.

00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:50.700

Phil: And I did a micro review of a Ken Williams book, which you have a critique of, I understand.

00:11:51.260 --> 00:11:53.960

Tom: I totally forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

00:11:54.020 --> 00:12:00.360

Phil: Yeah, and then also you've got a massive beef with how I censored you in the last episode.

00:12:00.380 --> 00:12:05.320

Tom: Well, I don't listen to the show, so I have no idea what you did or did not censor.

00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:09.780

Tom: For instance, I've got a running joke about the fact that...

00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:13.300

Tom: is a pedophile.

00:12:13.540 --> 00:12:13.860

Phil: Yes.

00:12:14.420 --> 00:12:20.020

Tom: I do believe you may be removing it from every episode.

00:12:20.180 --> 00:12:23.020

Phil: I've been leaving it in, but I do edit out the person's name.

00:12:23.800 --> 00:12:27.680

Phil: And I just save myself 40 seconds by not saying his or her name.

00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.440

Phil: Who may or may not have...

00:12:31.940 --> 00:12:34.220

Phil: a nano-ball.

00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:35.120

Tom: He certainly didn't...

00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:36.800

Phil: No.

00:12:36.820 --> 00:12:37.720

Phil: Do you buy into the...

00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:39.180

Phil: Okay, this is way off topic.

00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:40.880

Phil: Anyway, stick in there.

00:12:40.900 --> 00:12:51.240

Phil: We've got major beef coming up towards the end of the show, where Tom's going to confront me about some censorship of his comments.

00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.700

Phil: And now he might actually listen to the last episode.

00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:55.840

Phil: So, where do you want to jump into from here?

00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:59.300

Phil: We should definitely, probably talk about a video game at this point.

00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:10.120

Tom: Well, let's talk about Sky Season of Assembly, because that's probably the only recent game that anyone may have heard of.

00:13:10.180 --> 00:13:12.720

Tom: They probably haven't heard of that either, for that matter.

00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:13.660

Phil: I haven't heard of this.

00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:17.780

Phil: Is this finally Sky Children of Ascension coming to Switch?

00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:25.380

Tom: No, this is the upcoming season that will release this month, I think in about a week or so.

00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:28.140

Phil: This is the one you reviewed a couple of episodes ago that was in beta?

00:13:28.660 --> 00:13:30.300

Tom: No, that was the previous season.

00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:36.560

Tom: We should add, I was effusive in my praise of that season.

00:13:36.960 --> 00:14:08.780

Tom: When it got to the live version of the game where everyone was playing it, it was plagued with glitches that essentially meant that for most players, to be able to complete the first half or more of installments to the narrative for the season, they had to be constantly repeating them, doing things like switching to airplane mode to be able to get them to work, and a variety of other things like that.

00:14:08.780 --> 00:14:22.100

Tom: So unfortunately, when that reached live, although it was in the beta essentially glitch free almost, in the actual game, it was a horrendous mess, unfortunately.

00:14:23.020 --> 00:14:25.040

Phil: Well, how did they screw it up?

00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:55.260

Tom: Well, to the degree that they screwed it up, I have no idea because Sky has always been relatively glitchy, particularly as its player base has grown, but the glitches have usually not been on as high a level or in as important part of the game as that, because bear in mind that the seasons, although you can play them for free, they are also paid content.

00:14:55.280 --> 00:15:03.700

Tom: So a lot of people would have paid for that so that they can get further rewards and it was a mess, unfortunately.

00:15:03.940 --> 00:15:08.620

Phil: Okay, so just a quick reset for new listeners or people that aren't familiar with the game.

00:15:09.040 --> 00:15:22.740

Phil: Sky is by that game company that did Flower and Journey and Flow, and it's available on phones only still, right?

00:15:23.380 --> 00:15:26.140

Phil: It's not available on PC or any other console.

00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:28.140

Phil: And it's an MMO.

00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:30.020

Phil: And how would you describe it?

00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.840

Phil: How would you describe it?

00:15:32.860 --> 00:15:35.660

Phil: In terms of the gameplay elements of it?

00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:49.440

Tom: Well, you basically fly around, reliving the memories of spirits, not unlike Journey, but unlike Journey, you have a much greater freedom of movement.

00:15:49.700 --> 00:16:03.400

Tom: And the main gameplay loop, once you have done the reliving of spirits stories, is essentially collecting wax and wings.

00:16:03.420 --> 00:16:19.760

Tom: The wings allow you to fly further, and the wax is the in-game currency which you use to purchase cosmetic items and also trade hearts with other players, which are also used for purchasing cosmetic items.

00:16:19.780 --> 00:16:28.820

Tom: And you also purchase not just cosmetic items, but items that allow you to talk to other players without befriending them and things like that.

00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.160

Phil: They've gotten way into this now.

00:16:32.180 --> 00:16:34.440

Phil: I think this is like the third or fourth year, isn't it?

00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:35.720

Tom: Yeah, it's been...

00:16:35.780 --> 00:16:38.060

Tom: I don't know if it's the fourth year, maybe the third.

00:16:38.400 --> 00:16:39.980

Phil: Well, if you count development.

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.700

Phil: But my point is, do you think this is going to be that game company's thing?

00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:45.920

Phil: Is this what they are now?

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:47.180

Phil: Is this their Fortnite?

00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:52.620

Tom: Well, it has been so successful that that may well be the case.

00:16:53.140 --> 00:16:55.800

Phil: And it's successful in what regions?

00:16:56.660 --> 00:17:01.900

Tom: All over the world, as far as I can tell from the people I've interacted with on it.

00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:16.800

Tom: And it also, due to the structure of it with the seasons, also allows them to still be doing new and creative and interesting things as the game continues.

00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:17.640

Phil: Well, good on them.

00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:19.160

Phil: I mean, obviously it's paying the bills.

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:25.900

Phil: I'm waiting for them to add sticky grenades and ATVs before I jump in.

00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:26.940

Phil: I'm actually serious.

00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.080

Phil: When this comes to Switch, I'll be in it.

00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:33.020

Phil: Yeah, so this new season of Assembly, is it in beta right now?

00:17:33.700 --> 00:17:34.340

Tom: Yes, it is.

00:17:34.360 --> 00:17:37.180

Phil: And anything, what's the notable change?

00:17:38.240 --> 00:18:00.640

Tom: Well, the new area is in the hidden forest, and the narrative I think is not at all as interesting as the previous seasons, which was to me probably the best side story in the game outside of maybe elements of the first and second season.

00:18:01.760 --> 00:18:05.120

Tom: This one is a little bit more comical.

00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:06.260

Tom: It is enjoyable.

00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:21.100

Tom: The concept is basically that you are rebuilding the tree house, or building a tree house for a group of lost scouts lost in the forest.

00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:38.280

Tom: And the one disappointing thing about it is the quests you're doing for them are kind of caught between a problem they have had with trying to find a balance that does not annoy a huge amount of people.

00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:51.800

Tom: A lot of the seasonal spirits whose memories you're reliving, some of them have been extremely difficult, at least compared to the rest of the game.

00:18:51.840 --> 00:19:06.080

Tom: So a lot of people have not liked that, but by the same token, people have also wanted more interesting tasks to do in the quests you're doing, particularly in the side quests.

00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:19.120

Tom: And so what they've basically done in this season is you are going around rather than reliving memories of the characters, although that's still there.

00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:22.460

Tom: There is a small story aspect to the tasks you're doing.

00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:39.140

Tom: You are collecting items that you're using to rebuild the tree house, which is to me anyway a lot less interesting than following around the spirits and watching as their story unfolds.

00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:45.560

Tom: And those are also usually integrated in an interesting way into the environment as well.

00:19:46.340 --> 00:19:51.120

Tom: That's less so the case here, other than a few items that might be difficult to hide.

00:19:51.660 --> 00:20:05.920

Tom: The one interesting thing about it, I would say, is though that some of them, for you to be even able to start them, require multiple people to be there.

00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:17.800

Tom: Whereas other spirits, often to be able to do them due to the difficulty involved and what you're doing, you will need other players, you will be able to start them without other players.

00:20:17.820 --> 00:20:27.660

Tom: Here, you need the players required to be able to begin them, which is an interesting thing and does encourage cooperation.

00:20:28.020 --> 00:20:41.420

Tom: But the actual looking for and finding the items isn't as interesting, I would say, as the spirit memories usually are in the side seasons.

00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:53.160

Tom: The cosmetic items you get in it though, some of them are among the best items, some of them are relatively forgettable.

00:20:53.360 --> 00:21:04.980

Tom: So it's a mixed bag there, but some of them are really detailed and do add something to the current looks that are available.

00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:08.120

Phil: This game was released in...

00:21:08.140 --> 00:21:10.840

Phil: it's coming up on two years in July, so I was way off.

00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:14.000

Tom: That's because you've been waiting to play it all this time.

00:21:14.180 --> 00:21:15.940

Phil: Yeah, it feels like four years.

00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:19.100

Phil: Is there any violence in this game at all?

00:21:19.860 --> 00:21:31.080

Tom: Well, there is the Krill, which is a monster that can attack you and also goes around killing flying mantises.

00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:40.580

Phil: Okay, because I was wondering, you know, Monster Hunter is the topic of the week this week, which I can't care about, but I do want to go back and play the original PlayStation 2 game.

00:21:42.860 --> 00:21:51.760

Phil: But when you were talking about having a sufficient number of people on a quest, I was kind of thinking of raids and, you know, that sort of thing that came around from World of Warcraft.

00:21:51.780 --> 00:21:55.040

Tom: Well, there's no violence that the players themselves engage in.

00:21:55.220 --> 00:21:58.460

Phil: Okay, so there's no, quote, raids, as it were, but...

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:10.200

Tom: But they are helpful in doing certain activities during the quests and in just flying around and collecting wax, slash light, full stop.

00:22:10.220 --> 00:22:15.840

Tom: They are helpful because they do recharge your energy that you use up while flying.

00:22:15.860 --> 00:22:21.080

Phil: Okay, do you have anything else about the latest episode for Sky Children of Light?

00:22:21.760 --> 00:22:47.760

Tom: Not really, just that it is looking like if we pretend that the prior season actually worked properly, not as interesting as that season, but nevertheless, it is adding some interesting cosmetics to the game, and it does provide at least something different, albeit something that is perhaps could be more interesting than it is.

00:22:48.740 --> 00:23:05.200

Tom: The one thing I would add is as well, it also adds a multitude of new accessory items that you use to do stuff in the game, many of which people are still yet to work out what the hell they do.

00:23:05.500 --> 00:23:10.340

Tom: So that, if anything, makes it more intriguing than it otherwise would be.

00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:17.480

Phil: Yeah, look, the fact that you've been so taken with this game, I have to say, are you playing it on Android or iOS?

00:23:18.120 --> 00:23:18.700

Tom: iOS.

00:23:18.820 --> 00:23:23.180

Tom: I play it on an iPhone and an iPad.

00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:34.240

Phil: Okay, and like how do you, like when I sit down to game, like I've got a certain goal in mind, you know, like I don't have like an idle type mentality when it comes to a game.

00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:36.560

Phil: Is this an idle game for you?

00:23:36.580 --> 00:23:38.360

Phil: Is this something you do while you're doing something else?

00:23:38.360 --> 00:23:43.060

Phil: Is this something when you do when you're, you know, tired and...

00:23:43.260 --> 00:24:00.480

Tom: Well, at this stage, most of the time, it is basically a chat room, which I will have on while I'm eating or doing something else and other people, not me, will actually be going through the levels.

00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:29.080

Tom: But when, on the occasions when I actually do fly around and carry friends around rather than being dragged around by them, it remains due to how good the mechanics are and in spite of the essentially endless loop of collecting stuff or perhaps because of it, it remains enjoyable to actually play on the occasions when I am actually playing it.

00:24:29.340 --> 00:24:46.160

Tom: And even after all this long period of time, when playing it, it remains a very relaxing and meditative experience in the vein of Journey and perhaps Flower and other That Game Company games as well.

00:24:49.460 --> 00:25:05.960

Tom: And that style of game actually translates better than most games to an endlessly repetitive gameplay structure as meditation or other such mental activities would as well.

00:25:06.580 --> 00:25:07.560

Phil: Okay, very good.

00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:10.540

Phil: You've always been about community.

00:25:10.560 --> 00:25:12.180

Phil: We talked about that in the last episode.

00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:20.520

Phil: I encourage everyone to listen to the latter part of the last episode where we talked about our early days at gamespot.com.

00:25:21.100 --> 00:25:27.020

Phil: And over at the VG Press, I've started up a gaming trivia quiz at the vgpress.com in the gaming forum.

00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:38.720

Phil: And I did this when I had forgotten my password for my main account, and the administrator for our site has basically ghosted our whole community.

00:25:39.320 --> 00:25:41.800

Phil: So I was unable to get my password reset.

00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:49.480

Phil: So I started this as an alternate identity, very close to my real identity on the site.

00:25:49.900 --> 00:25:52.800

Tom: What would you say is the difference?

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.940

Phil: Well, one is called Aspro, one is called the real Aspro.

00:25:57.620 --> 00:26:00.700

Phil: So I started this gaming trivia thing.

00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:23.020

Phil: And so for the people that aren't part of the VG Press community, like, you know, the very first one, which I think was really obvious to anyone that knows anything about video games, I started with a really easy question, which was what video game system's distinct plastic coloring was chosen by its parsimonious manufacturer due to them being able to buy plastics in that color more cheaply?

00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:30.480

Phil: Now, the obvious answer is the Famicom, the Nintendo Famicom with its maroon plastics.

00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:31.540

Phil: You knew that answer, right?

00:26:31.780 --> 00:26:36.240

Tom: Well, I would have said NES if someone else had not previously said that.

00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:37.720

Phil: But the NES is grey.

00:26:37.800 --> 00:26:38.560

Phil: The NES is...

00:26:40.020 --> 00:26:44.020

Tom: As in the Famicom, because they're also technically the same thing.

00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:45.500

Phil: Well, they're not.

00:26:45.780 --> 00:26:46.480

Phil: They're different.

00:26:46.580 --> 00:26:47.380

Phil: They have different plastics.

00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:53.040

Tom: If you look up Famicom on Wikipedia, I believe it is referred to as the Famicom slash NES.

00:26:53.800 --> 00:27:04.780

Phil: Now, the second question was, Gunpei Yokoi was famous for creating the Game Boy and infamous for creating the Virtual Boy, but what is the name of the non-Nintendo gaming console he created?

00:27:04.800 --> 00:27:06.900

Phil: This is like basic stuff.

00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:09.280

Phil: Everyone knows the answer is one to swan.

00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:11.840

Tom: Well, I think someone got it.

00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:15.180

Phil: Oh, yeah.

00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.020

Phil: So...

00:27:19.320 --> 00:27:25.160

Phil: And somehow you've climbed your way to the top with your expertise in...

00:27:25.320 --> 00:27:26.940

Tom: Second in place, I believe.

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:32.900

Phil: Yeah, well, yeah, but you're ascending because of your knowledge of Michael Jackson.

00:27:36.020 --> 00:27:40.220

Tom: Maybe he's the person I'm accusing of being a pedophile in every episode.

00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:40.820

Phil: Perhaps.

00:27:41.020 --> 00:27:43.440

Tom: Which I think you don't need to censor because he's dead.

00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:44.240

Phil: Dead, exactly.

00:27:44.260 --> 00:27:45.900

Phil: Did I teach you that on a prior show?

00:27:45.920 --> 00:28:01.340

Tom: I don't know, but if anyone wants clues as to who I'm talking about, the joke is because he is evidence that I should not be at risk of being sued for defamation if I accuse someone of being a pedophile.

00:28:01.360 --> 00:28:02.500

Tom: That's what the joke is about.

00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:05.220

Phil: Now, it is true that you cannot slander the dead.

00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:10.100

Phil: You can say anything you want about the dead people, at least in the US, this is the case.

00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:18.560

Phil: And I think I may have taught you this, but anyway, if someone's dead, and maybe this came up with our obituaries, but if someone is dead, you cannot slander them.

00:28:18.860 --> 00:28:20.380

Phil: You cannot be sued for defaming them.

00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:25.480

Phil: Now, what was the other one that you got because of your advanced knowledge of...

00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:26.900

Tom: Metal Gear Solid.

00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:28.100

Phil: No, Stuff's the Zombie.

00:28:30.820 --> 00:28:33.920

Phil: That was just to see if anyone listens to the show at the VG Press.

00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:35.580

Tom: And we proved that they do not.

00:28:35.600 --> 00:28:36.160

Phil: They do not.

00:28:36.180 --> 00:28:37.760

Phil: They do not listen all the way through.

00:28:37.800 --> 00:28:39.540

Phil: So we know, listeners.

00:28:40.540 --> 00:28:42.280

Phil: So anyway, I believe you...

00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:59.160

Phil: First of all, it was one of the best gaming forum moments of my life, where you suggested a password, and in the background, the site's dormant administrator happened to contact me, like, in the same hour, to reset my password.

00:28:59.180 --> 00:29:00.420

Phil: It was just beautiful.

00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:02.620

Phil: I was laughing for, like, 20 minutes.

00:29:02.860 --> 00:29:06.120

Tom: Did he reset it to my suggested password?

00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:06.900

Phil: No, of course he didn't.

00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:09.240

Tom: That's a missed opportunity.

00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:14.400

Phil: He made it, like, 40 characters with special characters and numbers and all the rest.

00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:16.640

Tom: And you then immediately changed it to a single word.

00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:18.860

Phil: Yeah, to super hot or something.

00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.480

Phil: Something, or wonder swan, possibly.

00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:24.140

Phil: So I believe you have a trivia question for me.

00:29:26.520 --> 00:29:27.640

Phil: Now, what's the stakes here?

00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:28.660

Phil: If I don't get it...

00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:31.800

Tom: Then I will post it in the forum.

00:29:32.020 --> 00:29:34.400

Phil: Okay, and someone will get a point for it.

00:29:34.420 --> 00:29:37.560

Tom: And if someone doesn't get it, I will get a point for the leaderboard.

00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:39.900

Phil: Okay, but you've got 24 hours to respond.

00:29:39.940 --> 00:29:45.720

Phil: But this is all a big stretch because obviously I know everything about video games, so hit me.

00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:54.380

Tom: Yes, well, we previously mentioned the male gaze on a prior episode of The Game Under Podcast, perhaps the prior episode, in fact.

00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:07.100

Tom: This concept was actually invented by the English art critic who made several famous BBC documentaries and is a Marxist.

00:30:07.120 --> 00:30:22.660

Tom: Here is one of these Marxist academic intellectuals that are going around who people never reference when they're complaining about Marxist intellectuals because then they may have to engage with an argument that someone is making.

00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:27.660

Tom: But he came up with the concept of the male gaze.

00:30:27.840 --> 00:30:30.240

Tom: His name is John Peter Berger.

00:30:31.060 --> 00:30:36.360

Tom: He's famous for the documentary series Ways of Seeing, which I'm sure you've seen.

00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:37.700

Phil: Berger.

00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:41.360

Phil: So the male gaze is not a homosexual thing.

00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:48.080

Phil: It's about how literature and movies and stuff always see things through the male's view, right?

00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:49.380

Tom: In his view.

00:30:49.580 --> 00:30:50.500

Phil: In his view, right.

00:30:52.340 --> 00:31:15.580

Tom: We bring him up not due to his aesthetic theory, which we've discussed in a previous episode, nor for his documentary series, but because he voiced not one, but two characters in one of the early games in one of the biggest franchises in video games today.

00:31:16.300 --> 00:31:17.360

Tom: What game was that?

00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.100

Phil: This Berger guy did?

00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:20.180

Tom: Yes, he did.

00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:30.640

Phil: This Berger guy that came up with the theory of the male gaze voiced a character or a number of characters in an important franchise that is still relevant to this day.

00:31:30.860 --> 00:31:31.480

Tom: Correct.

00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:35.240

Phil: I can't ask any follow up questions.

00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:40.300

Phil: Okay, well, let's see.

00:31:41.320 --> 00:31:48.420

Phil: He must be old, otherwise he wouldn't be coming up with theory, so it must be an old game, but it's got to be new enough that it had voice acting.

00:31:49.380 --> 00:32:05.180

Phil: So I'm thinking, and it might just be because my micro view of Ken Williams' book, that it might be a Sierra Online type thing, but I, no, it's not Gex, it's not Gex the Gecko, because that was another guy.

00:32:05.800 --> 00:32:10.660

Phil: That would have been good because it's early, it won't be an N64 game.

00:32:10.700 --> 00:32:12.900

Phil: Well, it could be, N64 was quite a long time ago.

00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.760

Phil: It was probably British, otherwise, well, male, gays.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.940

Phil: Okay, all right, I'm going to commit to an answer, Banjo Kazooie.

00:32:22.820 --> 00:32:25.400

Tom: No, you are incorrect, unfortunately.

00:32:25.420 --> 00:32:25.900

Phil: Damn it.

00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:28.880

Phil: All right, well, I have to go over to the community.

00:32:29.340 --> 00:32:30.220

Tom: It will indeed.

00:32:30.600 --> 00:32:41.180

Phil: I've posted a question over there right now, and the answer is Geo Hot, but this is going to come out way after people answer that over there.

00:32:41.520 --> 00:32:44.320

Phil: You'll have to put it up after that one to be question 14.

00:32:44.340 --> 00:32:49.600

Phil: So yeah, go to the vgpress.com to their gaming discussion, which is where you see most of our community.

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:50.900

Phil: Yeah, all right.

00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:52.380

Phil: So back to games.

00:32:52.700 --> 00:32:53.780

Tom: Yes, back to games.

00:32:54.160 --> 00:33:01.660

Tom: I think we should move into similarly Haiti territory with I Dream of You and Ice Cream.

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:02.380

Phil: Right.

00:33:02.760 --> 00:33:09.660

Phil: Now, when I got an email from you with the topic I Dream of You and Ice Cream, I thought that this was going to be some sort of confession.

00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:13.680

Phil: But indeed, you had gifted me this game on Steam.

00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:15.760

Phil: And I'm afraid you're going to have to frame it for me.

00:33:15.780 --> 00:33:18.100

Phil: I don't know who made it or what the story is.

00:33:18.120 --> 00:33:28.460

Phil: But I Dream of You and Ice Cream, it has the same sort of visual presentation as Space Court, the game we talked about in the last episode.

00:33:29.360 --> 00:33:32.740

Tom: Was Space Court made in Game Maker Studio?

00:33:33.300 --> 00:33:34.240

Phil: I don't recall.

00:33:34.260 --> 00:33:35.480

Tom: I don't think it was.

00:33:35.540 --> 00:33:36.480

Phil: I don't think it was either.

00:33:36.740 --> 00:33:49.360

Phil: But basically, it's that how you remember the 286 or 386 Sierra Online King's Quest, Space Quest type games in terms of its visual presentation.

00:33:49.740 --> 00:33:51.080

Phil: It's made up of screens.

00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:58.500

Phil: So you walk through one screen and then it loads another screen and has a series of simple puzzles that you must complete.

00:33:58.900 --> 00:34:01.000

Phil: Now, I don't remember the backstory.

00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:11.960

Tom: Well, it has a series of simple puzzles that you may complete and one that seemingly does not give you any clue as to how it's meant to be solved.

00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:13.120

Phil: Yeah, we'll get to that.

00:34:13.140 --> 00:34:16.960

Phil: But do you have the name of the developer or anything like that?

00:34:17.520 --> 00:34:20.080

Phil: I can tell people it is available on Steam, first of all.

00:34:20.100 --> 00:34:41.380

Tom: Yes, it was developed and published by one, Amelios Manolides, who I believe is Greek, I assume is Greek anyway, and there are several instances of Greek writing in the game itself, although all the dialogue is in English, or the language of your choice has been translated into several different languages as well.

00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:45.380

Phil: The name of the game again is I Dream of You and Ice Cream.

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.760

Phil: Now, what's the premise behind the story?

00:34:47.780 --> 00:34:51.040

Phil: Because I thought it was pretty okay slash clever.

00:34:51.960 --> 00:35:03.200

Tom: Well, the premise of the story is that an extraterrestrial who looks very much like Woody from Toy Story or some sort of cowboy.

00:35:03.220 --> 00:35:04.220

Phil: No, definitely, yeah.

00:35:04.300 --> 00:35:27.740

Tom: Woody obviously has come to Earth and upon arrival at Earth, begins asking, first of all, enslaves everyone and then begins asking scientists, you don't know where they have come from or what they're doing there at the beginning of the game, a variety of questions about how humanity functions.

00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:43.220

Tom: And one of the most enjoyable parts of the game is, sorry, I said all the writing was in English, but all the dialogue, more to the point, is in logograms, I think the term is.

00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:59.520

Tom: So basically, if he is asking you what is the result of aging, there will be a picture of a person, then an arrow to the right and an old person and then a question mark after it.

00:36:01.140 --> 00:36:24.360

Tom: And that adds to the way the story is presented in a really enjoyable way, particularly given that you are communicating with an extraterrestrial being who does not understand how your species works and you do not understand how their species works either.

00:36:25.300 --> 00:36:35.560

Tom: This is an added layer of interestingness when you consider that the way that you are talking to the other characters is also exactly the same.

00:36:36.380 --> 00:36:48.160

Tom: This is interesting because, as it says in the description of The Game, it is about imperialism, the loss of identity and personal sacrifice.

00:36:48.700 --> 00:37:18.320

Tom: And while I've not seen anyone interpret the questions that are asked and the way in which he kills people given certain answers or not to those questions, because after he asks a question, the scene ends with either the scientists surviving and walking off or all of them being killed to be replaced by other scientists the next time a question is asked.

00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:34.420

Tom: And before I get to that actually, because that will arguably going to spoil the territory, I should probably add the puzzles in the game, the structure of you exploring the world is basically like a point and click adventure game.

00:37:34.820 --> 00:37:54.300

Tom: And there are a few environmental based puzzles where you are, for example, moving cages in a certain order so that you can move from one section of a room to the next by walking through the cages when they are in the right place.

00:37:55.060 --> 00:38:15.080

Tom: As an example, the majority of the puzzles are in the vein of older adventure games like Myst or puzzle games that are sort of in their newer iterations, not really conceived of as being adventure games and thought of in a different context.

00:38:15.100 --> 00:38:19.320

Tom: So as you are exploring, you will, for example, come across a machine.

00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:30.920

Tom: You will interact with that machine, and that machine will have its own self-contained puzzle that has its own rules totally unrelated to any other sort of puzzle in the rest of the game.

00:38:32.060 --> 00:38:44.140

Tom: And it's a very short game, so this may not be too surprising, but they managed to make all of these unique self-contained puzzles interesting and satisfying to solve.

00:38:44.860 --> 00:38:48.120

Tom: And each time you solve a puzzle, you get half a star.

00:38:48.620 --> 00:38:53.860

Tom: And once you have a whole star, you can basically use that as a hint if you're stuck on a puzzle.

00:38:54.420 --> 00:39:31.580

Tom: And what happens when you do that is the first few actions that you need to take in a puzzle to solve it, the game will do for you, which acts as a clue because if you haven't worked out from the basic information presented to you at the beginning of the puzzle, it is showing you the direction in which you should be going by solving a little bit of it because most of the puzzles structurally, once you've figured out how they actually work, you should be able to progressively go through the puzzle and complete it.

00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:34.240

Tom: So that's an interesting system.

00:39:34.260 --> 00:39:41.140

Tom: With the exception of one puzzle, which involves batteries, the hint did not help me there.

00:39:42.040 --> 00:40:06.380

Tom: And I had to look it up, and I am not ashamed to say that because even reading a description of how it is meant to work, and I was not the only person who, upon reading a description of how it was meant to work, it appears to not really follow any logic, including to people who solved it without help, apparently.

00:40:06.980 --> 00:40:12.060

Tom: So that was the one potential misstep in the puzzle design, but it is only one.

00:40:13.120 --> 00:40:28.300

Tom: I think if you approach it as either a puzzle or as a point-and-click adventure game, it is equally enjoyable because the puzzles are fun, logical except for one, and satisfying to solve.

00:40:30.200 --> 00:40:34.100

Tom: And a couple of them are reasonably challenging, that they are very satisfying to solve.

00:40:34.740 --> 00:40:41.880

Tom: And the narrative is absolutely incredible, which we will be getting to in more detail in a moment.

00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:50.160

Tom: And the last thing I would add before I get on to spoilers is, this is essentially Braid.

00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:52.660

Tom: Not in the sense that it is like Braid.

00:40:52.940 --> 00:40:53.660

Phil: Spoilers!

00:40:54.220 --> 00:40:58.520

Tom: Not in the sense that it is like Braid in terms of either its narrative or gameplay.

00:40:58.540 --> 00:40:59.840

Tom: Certainly Braid's gameplay.

00:40:59.860 --> 00:41:02.280

Phil: So it's about how he broke up with girlfriend, what he did?

00:41:03.140 --> 00:41:03.800

Tom: No, he didn't.

00:41:04.580 --> 00:41:05.380

Tom: I mean, he may have.

00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.000

Tom: It depends on your interpretation.

00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:11.100

Tom: But this is my point.

00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:12.220

Tom: He probably didn't.

00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:14.940

Phil: This is your point.

00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:17.260

Tom: That is my point entirely.

00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:24.140

Tom: That it's not a game about video game addiction and some fuckwit breaking up with their girlfriend.

00:41:24.540 --> 00:41:32.660

Tom: This, rather than presenting cool, serious, metaphorical content.

00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:33.940

Phil: Who are you calling a fuckwit?

00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:34.600

Phil: Joe Blow?

00:41:35.020 --> 00:41:35.560

Tom: Correct.

00:41:35.580 --> 00:41:37.040

Tom: I'm calling Joe Blow a fuckwit.

00:41:37.100 --> 00:41:37.680

Phil: John Blow.

00:41:37.700 --> 00:41:40.860

Tom: To present a totally banal and uninteresting story.

00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:46.360

Phil: John Blow makes the most pretentious games in video game history.

00:41:46.380 --> 00:41:47.300

Tom: This is what I'm saying.

00:41:47.380 --> 00:41:49.600

Phil: He is the Ernest Cline of...

00:41:50.500 --> 00:41:51.240

Tom: What Cline?

00:41:51.560 --> 00:41:53.860

Phil: Ernest Cline, the author of Ready Player.

00:41:55.020 --> 00:41:57.400

Phil: But, hey, he made The Witness, you know.

00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:00.880

Tom: And Braid as a game is brilliant.

00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.600

Tom: Everything else about it is not so good.

00:42:05.620 --> 00:42:07.420

Tom: But this is my point.

00:42:07.460 --> 00:42:25.080

Tom: Unlike Braid, which presents itself as tackling these heady themes, with in the background a simple slice of life story, which can be just as profound as heady themes, but it's not...

00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:39.440

Tom: What do we learn in Braid, or relate to in Braid, or go through the motions of a touching story in Braid about the ending of a relationship or playing a video game?

00:42:39.640 --> 00:43:00.880

Tom: The answer is fucking nothing, even less than the shitty metaphors it is using as if it is presenting the seriousness of the destruction of a relationship as how this can be so great as a nuclear bomb exploding or some bullshit like that.

00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:04.400

Tom: That isn't there in the fucking actual story at all.

00:43:04.420 --> 00:43:05.280

Phil: No, I'm with you, man.

00:43:05.300 --> 00:43:09.960

Phil: I mean, the story of Braid basically could be scrawled on a bathroom wall, you know.

00:43:10.600 --> 00:43:12.140

Tom: It would be a lot better if it was.

00:43:12.220 --> 00:43:23.960

Tom: That would be writing, I think, the story of a breakup on a bathroom wall would be a much more transgressive, edgy and profound thing to do.

00:43:24.060 --> 00:43:24.560

Phil: Thank you.

00:43:24.560 --> 00:43:26.900

Phil: You've just called me edgy and transgressive.

00:43:27.200 --> 00:43:30.280

Phil: I've lost my vanilla fog name.

00:43:30.620 --> 00:43:40.200

Phil: Hey, so this game, by the way, the guy had also made a game called Gleaner Heights, which seems to be a Harvest Moon ripoff.

00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:42.340

Tom: Or Stardew Valley clone.

00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:43.440

Phil: Yeah, 2018.

00:43:43.460 --> 00:43:46.060

Phil: I don't know if Stardew Valley was around back then.

00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:46.980

Tom: I'm pretty sure it was.

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.840

Phil: Yeah, it was, but he wouldn't have been able to develop it in time.

00:43:49.940 --> 00:43:53.400

Phil: I think it was probably concurrent with Stardew Valley.

00:43:53.720 --> 00:44:09.520

Tom: He also made a game called Iron Ball, which is, I believe, some sort of platforming game, which I thought looked okay, but this really sold it to me, and I have to play it at some point now.

00:44:09.520 --> 00:44:12.360

Tom: The Steam review by Yomigayl.

00:44:13.100 --> 00:44:17.920

Tom: Nice game, but I'm not fond of Devalis' session with homoerotic pros.

00:44:18.140 --> 00:44:20.280

Phil: Is that the guy who's going to die in two days?

00:44:21.560 --> 00:44:21.860

Tom: No.

00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:23.240

Phil: Okay, that's the other guy.

00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:24.200

Tom: Unfortunately not.

00:44:25.100 --> 00:44:30.420

Phil: There's a guy on Steam that writes a review for every game that basically says, Thank you for making this game.

00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:33.780

Phil: I'm about to die in two days, and this changed my life forever.

00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:38.940

Phil: And then if you just look at his username and go look at all his reviews, it's the exact same review on every game.

00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:41.060

Phil: He's obviously trying to scam for something.

00:44:42.160 --> 00:44:43.640

Tom: Or he's going out with a bang.

00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:47.900

Phil: The name of the game is I Dream of You and Ice Cream on Steam.

00:44:48.720 --> 00:44:49.500

Phil: Well, it's on Steam.

00:44:49.520 --> 00:44:50.540

Phil: That's not the name of the game.

00:44:50.560 --> 00:44:59.600

Phil: But when you sent it to me, I thought, and this is a callback, I didn't look at who had made it.

00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:04.580

Phil: I thought this must be Tim Keenan's new game that you've come across.

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:08.780

Phil: And Tim Keenan, you interviewed in Episode 48.

00:45:10.520 --> 00:45:12.180

Phil: What games was he known for?

00:45:14.200 --> 00:45:19.200

Tom: A virus named Tom and Duskers.

00:45:19.220 --> 00:45:21.980

Tom: You still see the odd reference to Duskers, impressively.

00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:31.220

Phil: And I don't know if he's still active or not, but if you go back and listen to Episode 48, it's absolutely epic and wonderful to listen to.

00:45:32.220 --> 00:45:39.980

Tom: While we're on the topic of interviews, I mentioned in a previous episode my disdain for popular podcasts.

00:45:40.120 --> 00:45:45.320

Tom: And there's another category of podcasts that I have to bring up that are just totally insufferable.

00:45:46.040 --> 00:45:53.540

Tom: And they are podcasts where if they were not interviewing guests, they would be an amusing show.

00:45:53.560 --> 00:45:59.340

Tom: An example of this is Bobby Lee from Mad TV's podcast.

00:45:59.380 --> 00:46:06.880

Tom: He is obviously, and the people he has on as co-hosts, obviously very entertaining media figures.

00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:09.520

Tom: But they are interviewing people.

00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:11.880

Tom: At least they claim to be interviewing people.

00:46:12.100 --> 00:46:27.400

Tom: But of course the interviews consist of merely a stream of consciousness show by Bobby Lee and his co-hosts who riff on one another with the guest standing there shell shocked by what is going on.

00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:32.060

Phil: What's the name of the podcast?

00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:33.860

Tom: Tiger Belly, I think.

00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:34.640

Phil: Tiger Belly?

00:46:35.080 --> 00:46:35.440

Tom: Yes.

00:46:35.700 --> 00:46:37.380

Phil: Sounds like what I had for dinner last night.

00:46:38.380 --> 00:46:39.920

Phil: But back to this game.

00:46:40.540 --> 00:46:44.400

Phil: Do you pick up what I'm putting down there, re Tim Keenan?

00:46:46.040 --> 00:46:51.700

Tom: It could be, just because it is an indie game with a low budget.

00:46:52.060 --> 00:46:53.280

Phil: And some puzzle elements.

00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.920

Tom: Yeah, and some puzzle elements.

00:46:54.940 --> 00:46:58.120

Tom: But I mean, that's a pretty standard fare for indie games.

00:46:59.260 --> 00:47:00.440

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:47:01.020 --> 00:47:01.640

Phil: I guess.

00:47:01.660 --> 00:47:05.360

Phil: But this one is distinctive in the graphical style and all the rest of it.

00:47:05.560 --> 00:47:07.480

Phil: Low budget, I guess, is what you're talking about.

00:47:07.660 --> 00:47:07.980

Tom: Yep.

00:47:08.980 --> 00:47:24.940

Tom: And I think the thing is that like a Tim Keenan game, regardless of the budget involved or whatever medium it's using, this is, for example, using Game Maker Studio, of which there are a million games that all look identical.

00:47:25.080 --> 00:47:29.020

Tom: And if you look at this, you can see it is made in Game Maker Studio.

00:47:29.340 --> 00:47:36.860

Tom: But nevertheless, a real handmade feel and a distinctive aesthetic immediately comes across.

00:47:37.520 --> 00:47:46.840

Tom: And there's real knowledge and skill in the game, knowing exactly where to put all the effort into making certain things look good.

00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:51.380

Phil: So on to the story, you wanted to talk about the themes of this thing?

00:47:52.060 --> 00:47:52.400

Tom: Yes.

00:47:52.560 --> 00:48:02.880

Tom: Well, it is billed, as I said, as a game about imperialism, personal sacrifice and the loss of identity.

00:48:03.020 --> 00:48:07.660

Phil: We've got a thousand things to talk about, but do you think imperialism is a relevant topic these days?

00:48:09.020 --> 00:48:09.640

Tom: Absolutely.

00:48:10.140 --> 00:48:11.080

Phil: Vis-a-vis China?

00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:25.100

Tom: Well, I think China, the most interesting thing about Chinese imperialism, is the way in which it is deliberately going against the Western modes of imperialism.

00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:26.200

Phil: All right.

00:48:26.220 --> 00:48:28.420

Phil: We'll save that for another topic, because I disagree.

00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:31.980

Phil: So get into the story of...

00:48:32.260 --> 00:48:38.480

Phil: and this is going to touch on some spoilers, but we've got to say the story is not necessarily the hook, or is it?

00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:55.380

Tom: Well, the story is the hook, and you would need to use examples of particular countries, because certainly, internally, in the areas that China considers to be part of its land, it is absolutely on the Western model.

00:48:55.880 --> 00:49:06.540

Tom: But the way in which they use debt is legally significantly different to the way in which Western countries use debt.

00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:07.700

Phil: Not getting into it.

00:49:08.680 --> 00:49:10.360

Phil: Back to I Dream of You and Ice Cream.

00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:11.440

Tom: No, you brought that up.

00:49:11.620 --> 00:49:12.280

Phil: We're not bringing it...

00:49:12.300 --> 00:49:13.140

Phil: We're not going into it.

00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:15.160

Phil: I could talk an hour on this topic.

00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:16.960

Phil: I don't necessarily disagree.

00:49:19.340 --> 00:49:19.920

Tom: I'm waiting.

00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:20.900

Phil: We've got other beef.

00:49:22.220 --> 00:49:23.620

Tom: Give me your pithy response.

00:49:23.640 --> 00:49:24.920

Phil: It's a video game podcast.

00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:26.120

Tom: Give it.

00:49:26.840 --> 00:49:28.720

Tom: This game is about imperialism.

00:49:28.780 --> 00:49:29.840

Tom: It's clearly relevant.

00:49:30.220 --> 00:49:31.080

Phil: Okay, it's not.

00:49:32.080 --> 00:49:38.680

Phil: I would say that more of the cultural imperialism and the economic imperialism is what you're seeing coming out of China.

00:49:38.700 --> 00:49:43.220

Phil: Not the traditional Western one, which is where we go into a country and we actually occupy it.

00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:48.720

Phil: They're not doing it by occupation in a physical sense or a militaristic sense.

00:49:49.520 --> 00:49:58.900

Phil: More so, they're doing it through cultural influence, like getting us all to learn how to speak Chinese 15 years ago in Australia, buying up our land and all the rest of it.

00:49:59.300 --> 00:50:00.520

Phil: Haven't got anything against it.

00:50:00.680 --> 00:50:01.980

Phil: China can buy whatever they want.

00:50:03.120 --> 00:50:06.880

Tom: That part of it is absolutely the same as Western imperialism.

00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:08.060

Phil: Okay, all right, fair enough.

00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:11.160

Tom: That aspect of soft power, definitely the same.

00:50:11.180 --> 00:50:11.400

Phil: Yep.

00:50:12.120 --> 00:50:12.340

Phil: Yep.

00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:17.740

Tom: So, speaking of soft power and imperialism...

00:50:18.060 --> 00:50:21.820

Phil: Soft power, is that what you call your unit?

00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:24.940

Phil: Okay, I pledge...

00:50:25.020 --> 00:50:26.940

Tom: My unit is max power, actually.

00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:32.780

Phil: I pledged years ago that we weren't going to do dick jokes in this podcast, so I may have to censor that and edit that out.

00:50:34.740 --> 00:50:35.920

Phil: But soft power, come on.

00:50:37.620 --> 00:50:40.080

Tom: Yep, so...

00:50:40.100 --> 00:50:43.280

Tom: So, as I said, Woody is asking questions.

00:50:43.300 --> 00:50:43.960

Tom: Woody.

00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:45.960

Tom: Woody is asking questions.

00:50:48.380 --> 00:50:49.000

Tom: Yes, he is.

00:50:50.680 --> 00:50:56.020

Tom: About how humans as a society function.

00:50:56.980 --> 00:51:03.300

Tom: And some of them are ambiguous questions, others are ambiguous questions.

00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:10.580

Tom: And we can't get around the fact that Woody looks very much like a cowboy.

00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:26.540

Tom: And in certainly, culturally, cowboys are obviously a symbol of the imperialism in America in the settling of the West and manifest destiny, and so on and so forth.

00:51:26.560 --> 00:51:28.860

Phil: See, as an American, I see them as a symbol of freedom.

00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:32.040

Phil: And, you know, individuality.

00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:37.820

Tom: Yes, they were individually giving themselves freedom.

00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:42.980

Tom: They were, just at the expense of other people's freedom.

00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:45.540

Tom: So it's not necessarily untrue.

00:51:45.560 --> 00:51:48.940

Phil: The freedom to exploit indigenous peoples and rob them of their lands.

00:51:50.060 --> 00:51:50.600

Tom: Exactly.

00:51:50.620 --> 00:51:52.320

Phil: They weren't doing anything with them anyway.

00:51:52.940 --> 00:51:53.220

Tom: Yep.

00:51:53.540 --> 00:51:54.260

Phil: They're only growing.

00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:57.220

Tom: That's the Ayn Rand argument.

00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:08.640

Tom: Private property is a steadfast law, until I want your property, in which case I will invent a reason as to why you no longer have a right to that property.

00:52:08.640 --> 00:52:09.160

Phil: That's right.

00:52:09.680 --> 00:52:11.780

Phil: I'm going to let you go uninterrupted now.

00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:12.740

Phil: Yes.

00:52:13.200 --> 00:52:19.760

Tom: As you can tell, unlike all of these fucking people in the games media, we are experts on this topic.

00:52:20.180 --> 00:52:25.440

Tom: So I can actually comment on what the Imperius themes might be in this game, if we ever get to it, that is.

00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:49.740

Tom: In the very little commentary I've seen on the game, the fact that it is billed as being about imperialism is usually ignored by the commentary on what the meaning of the questions is and why does he kill people for answering in certain ways and not kill them for answering in certain ways.

00:52:50.140 --> 00:53:11.200

Tom: And if you're considering this in terms of imperialism, you can see the questions going in the direction of certain cultural touchstones that have been a part of imperialist strategy and culture.

00:53:11.520 --> 00:53:27.480

Tom: So for example, it begins with simple questions about the basic functioning things, as I said, but it soon then begins asking questions like, you'll get a logogram of a black person and a white person, and there will be a question mark.

00:53:27.980 --> 00:53:33.280

Tom: So it will then be asking why is there a difference here, or is there a difference here for that matter.

00:53:34.220 --> 00:53:44.160

Tom: The scientists will then answer that the two different faces equals the same thing, at which point they are all killed.

00:53:44.600 --> 00:54:01.940

Tom: Well, obviously, once Christianity started being a little less cruel among elites as they're called today, race obviously became a massively important part of imperialism.

00:54:02.340 --> 00:54:19.380

Tom: And pretty much all the questions where the theme can very obviously be drawn to a culture of imperialism and the answer does not support the culture of imperialism, that is when people are killed.

00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:35.680

Tom: And as you're also going along, the questions also sort of begin to reveal potential motivations for this that may go against the justifications for it that Woody is indoctrinating the scientists with.

00:54:35.780 --> 00:54:43.640

Tom: And the game ends very interestingly with the final question being essentially, what is the point of money?

00:54:44.020 --> 00:54:52.100

Tom: And with the way that the game ends, we do not get to see what his answer to that would have been, which is a...

00:54:52.480 --> 00:55:02.420

Tom: I think at first I was a bit annoyed by that, but I think on reflection, it is an interesting way to end the game ultimately.

00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:04.200

Phil: Yeah, I think it is a good way to end the game.

00:55:04.220 --> 00:55:07.740

Phil: Just, you know, what's the meaning of life 42?

00:55:08.080 --> 00:55:12.060

Phil: You know, I mean, I think it's good to leave it on an open...

00:55:12.080 --> 00:55:19.480

Phil: rather than provide the audience an answer, it's better to give them something to keep them thinking about it and coming back to it, you know.

00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:21.420

Phil: I think that's the way it should be.

00:55:23.080 --> 00:55:57.740

Tom: Indeed, and it's quite bizarre to me that most of the commentary I saw in the game totally ignored that questions, for example, about racism, then killing everyone when they answer that race may not be real is a pretty blatant and obvious comment on imperialism, given that these questions are being given to a population by the person who has enslaved them.

00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:35.400

Tom: But most of the commentary on questions like that, for example, was that the people were answering in too simplistic a manner, and that if you actually consider something like race, for example, well, it's more complicated than you being able to answer that either races are the same or race doesn't exist and this sort of thing, which appears to me to be not necessarily misreading of what the point was, because what the point was, who knows, but certainly a misreading of the narrative that is introduced with an explicit statement.

00:56:35.780 --> 00:56:45.880

Tom: And it's also a misreading of the storytelling because the question itself is equally simplistic to the answer.

00:56:47.140 --> 00:56:52.760

Phil: Yes, it's an interesting topic and interesting game.

00:56:53.420 --> 00:56:55.460

Phil: So it delivers on two fronts.

00:56:55.600 --> 00:56:59.140

Phil: It's stimulating to the mind and also provides some fun challenges.

00:56:59.520 --> 00:57:10.380

Phil: I think the puzzles weren't overly easy, but they weren't overly difficult other than that one obtuse one, which is really unfortunate because that could be a killer for a lot of people.

00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:12.480

Phil: But the game's been out since 2020.

00:57:12.500 --> 00:57:13.340

Phil: It's been around.

00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:29.620

Phil: So you think that they would have, he would have patched around that in terms of seeing where people get in terms of the trophies, you know, but I would just think so many people stop at that one puzzle and just never get back into the game, which is really unfortunate.

00:57:29.640 --> 00:57:33.060

Phil: So are you going to roll out your die of destiny for this one?

00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:34.360

Tom: I am indeed.

00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:35.640

Phil: Okay, here it comes, folks.

00:57:38.140 --> 00:57:39.200

Phil: Clickety clack.

00:57:39.500 --> 00:57:41.780

Phil: I'm going to guess that's a four.

00:57:42.340 --> 00:57:56.420

Tom: No, unfortunately, I Dream of Ice Cream, which, as I said, is the game braid wanted to be on so many levels and would potentially be my Game of the Year of 2020.

00:57:57.120 --> 00:57:59.780

Tom: Unfortunately, receives a one out of ten.

00:58:00.600 --> 00:58:00.940

Phil: Yep.

00:58:01.140 --> 00:58:02.640

Phil: Well, die can't lie.

00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:04.800

Phil: Die can't lie.

00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:11.880

Phil: We'll move on to two very hot games, Super Hot and Hotshot Racing.

00:58:15.240 --> 00:58:16.640

Tom: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:58:16.660 --> 00:58:18.120

Tom: The one last thing I would add...

00:58:20.420 --> 00:58:21.420

Tom: No, no, no, no.

00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:23.000

Tom: This comes after the die roll.

00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:37.040

Tom: Because I think it's actually the most interesting statement on imperialism, given the strategy of most anti-racists today.

00:58:37.060 --> 00:58:44.060

Phil: Just so you know, when I do get my soundboard, I'm going to have a stinger for the most imperialist statement of this game.

00:58:44.300 --> 00:58:48.200

Phil: So every time you bring up the most imperialist statement of any game, I'm going to push this button.

00:58:52.640 --> 00:58:58.340

Tom: No, you need to get the sound of Woody screaming, his scream that kills people, and use that.

00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:01.640

Phil: Okay, well, I'll save that away.

00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:08.720

Phil: If people want to contribute to my soundboard fund, just leave a comment at gameunder.net on one of our comments.

00:59:10.240 --> 00:59:11.760

Tom: Don't add to our Patreon as well.

00:59:11.780 --> 00:59:12.520

Tom: Subscribe, I mean.

00:59:12.540 --> 00:59:14.160

Phil: Yeah, and hit that like button.

00:59:14.260 --> 00:59:15.140

Phil: Mash that like button.

00:59:18.460 --> 00:59:19.560

Tom: So, most importantly...

00:59:19.580 --> 00:59:21.100

Phil: Yeah, post Roll Die comment, yes.

00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:34.240

Tom: Yeah, post Roll Die comment, because this just clicked in my head, because again, it's a game about imperialism, the loss of identity and personal sacrifice.

00:59:34.260 --> 01:00:04.700

Tom: Now, the protagonist of the game is building a non-human, a-cultural robot, which is the only way that anyone has come up with killing Woody because he can kill anyone anywhere with his screeches, apparently, which may also be commentary on a certain meme about screeching political activists as well, but probably not.

01:00:04.940 --> 01:00:48.680

Tom: But what is interesting about that is, again, if we take the racism question as an example, and you consider that he is indoctrinating representatives from the entirety of the world who are all working together in the fight against the imperialist vision of Woody, the enslaver of mankind, instead of fighting that with a form of nativism, nativist identity politics, it is being fought with a form of universalist, anti-nativist, non-identity politics.

01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:52.080

Phil: That's I Dream of You, an ice cream available on Steam.

01:00:52.540 --> 01:01:02.040

Phil: If I didn't have a job and we did a daily podcast, I'd ask you why do you think the creator picked Woody and not Buzz light year?

01:01:02.060 --> 01:01:05.920

Phil: Because I actually think there's an essay in that, but we're not going to discuss it.

01:01:05.980 --> 01:01:15.200

Tom: Well, I told you, as I said, Buzz light year may be very much a symbol of American nationalism.

01:01:15.460 --> 01:01:16.160

Tom: Absolutely.

01:01:16.180 --> 01:01:17.180

Phil: No, hope and optimism.

01:01:18.540 --> 01:01:21.600

Tom: No, nationalism, nationalism, nationalism.

01:01:21.620 --> 01:01:25.380

Tom: They're fighting the Soviets in their space program.

01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:27.600

Phil: No, they're defending themselves against the Sputniks.

01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:41.900

Tom: For the free world maybe, but as Americans, space is very much a nationalist project by the very fact that it is an internationalist program.

01:01:43.140 --> 01:01:45.560

Tom: But I think the reason is obvious.

01:01:45.580 --> 01:01:49.780

Tom: Cowboys are the American symbol of imperialism.

01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:51.720

Phil: Well, they're ideals of freedom.

01:01:52.380 --> 01:01:54.880

Phil: So, okay, so on to the next game.

01:01:55.900 --> 01:01:59.560

Phil: I've just got quick impressions of Super Hot.

01:01:59.580 --> 01:02:03.140

Phil: Super Hot is, I think I said in the last episode, a subversive game.

01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:05.860

Phil: Would you agree with that?

01:02:07.540 --> 01:02:08.320

Tom: Yes and no.

01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:09.720

Phil: Well, I again...

01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:12.580

Tom: It's certainly got the aesthetics of subversion.

01:02:12.680 --> 01:02:21.060

Phil: I think it subverts gameplay because people are very familiar with first-person shooters, and it's done something to upend the first-person shooter category.

01:02:21.600 --> 01:02:23.940

Tom: Yeah, gameplay, absolutely, yes, I would agree.

01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:25.000

Phil: And that's what I'm talking about.

01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:29.720

Phil: The rest of it's just, you know, icing on the cake or window dressing.

01:02:29.740 --> 01:02:39.520

Phil: But I contend, and I continue to contend, that Super Hot is a puzzle game, not a first-person shooter.

01:02:40.940 --> 01:02:47.740

Tom: I would say it's both, and I would also add that all the best first-person shooters are also puzzle games.

01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:50.000

Phil: Yeah, I agree with that.

01:02:50.020 --> 01:02:51.340

Phil: They give you tools.

01:02:52.060 --> 01:02:53.740

Phil: They give you tools, and I was...

01:02:54.580 --> 01:03:01.900

Phil: I really begrudge the fact that Call of Duty is off of my playlist because of the massive amount of downloading that the game requires.

01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:04.140

Phil: I really enjoy first-person shooters.

01:03:04.200 --> 01:03:08.420

Phil: I really enjoy going back to Call of Duty every year when a new campaign comes out.

01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:14.840

Phil: And I do feel ripped off that that's been taken away from me because there's not a lot of other first-person shooters.

01:03:14.860 --> 01:03:16.540

Phil: Sure, we got Sirius Sam 4.

01:03:16.560 --> 01:03:18.980

Phil: It's on our wish list and things like that.

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:23.740

Phil: But, you know, Call of Duty is like the annual installment of a first-person shooter.

01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:29.260

Phil: And it's shocking to me that as a genre, that has completely died off.

01:03:29.660 --> 01:03:31.300

Phil: And I don't get that.

01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:37.860

Phil: I don't know if that's because of the rise of these other, you know, service games and things like that.

01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:42.100

Tom: But I don't think first-person shooters in a genre have died off at all.

01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:49.760

Tom: If anything, they're currently going through a resurgence after a downward trend that was previously there.

01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:51.980

Phil: I'm just talking about a profusion of options.

01:03:52.400 --> 01:03:58.840

Phil: Like, you used to be able to go into a store and, you know, an FPS would come out at least once a month, and now you don't see that.

01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:09.920

Tom: That is true, but that's because you don't need to, because you have the endless tap of Fortnite, PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds.

01:04:09.940 --> 01:04:10.940

Phil: That's the point, yeah.

01:04:11.040 --> 01:04:14.900

Phil: And, you know, plus you can't go into a store anymore.

01:04:15.940 --> 01:04:19.800

Phil: But anyway, I finished Super Hot, and the game just got better and better and better.

01:04:21.200 --> 01:04:27.480

Phil: I was wondering, you know, you were disappointed with the second installment of the game in which they had procedurally generated levels.

01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:39.620

Phil: I'm betting the way those developers think is that some of the levels in the original were procedurally generated, and then press pause, you know, so that, you know.

01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:45.660

Phil: But then they thought, oh, what if we just procedurally generate forever and ever, and we're going to give the players more and more?

01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:49.300

Phil: I see where that thought would have come from.

01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:50.520

Phil: But it was misguided.

01:04:52.520 --> 01:04:55.600

Phil: And the game story didn't go where I thought it was going to go.

01:04:55.620 --> 01:05:01.320

Phil: I don't know if you're familiar with the TV show Black Mirror by Charlie Booker.

01:05:02.460 --> 01:05:04.620

Tom: I am familiar with it, but I have never watched it.

01:05:04.640 --> 01:05:06.120

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's worth watching.

01:05:07.420 --> 01:05:08.560

Phil: Certainly elements of it.

01:05:09.640 --> 01:05:13.320

Phil: This and Super Hot go hand in glove.

01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:18.660

Phil: And I would, I think they're just as good as each other.

01:05:18.680 --> 01:05:25.700

Phil: Though I'd give the edge probably the Super Hot, though I really do like Black Mirror, even though it's a one trick pony.

01:05:26.740 --> 01:05:44.040

Phil: But ultimately, the thing that made me, the biggest impact that this had on me was that, you know what, I need to be, when a game comes out and everyone says it's amazing, and people gift me the game, as they did in this case, but I missed it because I wasn't on Steam for like a year.

01:05:46.080 --> 01:05:51.580

Phil: I need to pay attention, and I need to go out and buy it for $60 or $70, or whatever it is, because...

01:05:51.620 --> 01:05:54.240

Tom: Or accept it when it's been Steam gifted to you.

01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.000

Phil: Yes, exactly.

01:05:56.600 --> 01:05:58.400

Phil: And then that Steam gift expires.

01:05:59.600 --> 01:06:03.520

Phil: Because this was a really important and good game.

01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:11.620

Phil: And, you know, there's games like Disco Elysion, where I feel like I should have bought it.

01:06:11.640 --> 01:06:16.140

Phil: It's come out now, it's got a re-release now.

01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:22.360

Phil: And the art style of it is completely different than what I thought it had been, as it had been relayed to me through podcasts.

01:06:23.140 --> 01:06:25.520

Phil: And it's a rogue-like, so I don't think I'll ever play it.

01:06:25.520 --> 01:06:38.380

Phil: But I'm just thinking, like, you know, when the consensus is out there that this is a smart, clever game you should be playing, I need to go out and just buy it and try it, because Super Hot exceeded all of my expectations.

01:06:40.560 --> 01:06:43.520

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, it was a revelation to me.

01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:45.320

Phil: And it was thoroughly enjoyable.

01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:46.760

Phil: I think I'll go back and play it.

01:06:48.200 --> 01:06:50.000

Phil: And certainly the VR version.

01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:52.400

Phil: You have not yet got the VR version, right?

01:06:53.220 --> 01:06:56.040

Tom: I have got and played the VR version.

01:06:56.060 --> 01:06:56.700

Tom: Wow!

01:06:57.100 --> 01:06:59.640

Phil: Okay, this is where you play my stinger off the soundboard.

01:07:01.520 --> 01:07:02.120

Phil: Wow!

01:07:02.520 --> 01:07:03.000

Phil: Have you?

01:07:03.540 --> 01:07:04.180

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:07:04.200 --> 01:07:04.600

Phil: All right.

01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:06.400

Phil: Well, do you want to just give me a...

01:07:06.720 --> 01:07:07.380

Phil: Is it good?

01:07:08.140 --> 01:07:11.180

Tom: It is as good as the non-VR version.

01:07:12.060 --> 01:07:12.860

Phil: The original?

01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:14.020

Tom: Correct.

01:07:14.040 --> 01:07:14.660

Phil: So no better?

01:07:15.720 --> 01:07:22.760

Tom: No, it is better in some ways, but inferior in some ways as well, due to the nature of the medium.

01:07:22.780 --> 01:07:24.860

Phil: I would imagine that it's less...

01:07:24.860 --> 01:07:28.620

Phil: One thing I was concerned about was less precision in terms of the aiming and shooting.

01:07:29.180 --> 01:07:31.620

Tom: The aiming and shooting is as precise.

01:07:31.640 --> 01:07:33.720

Tom: The throwing of items is not as precise.

01:07:34.620 --> 01:07:39.020

Tom: And that is not the fault of the medium.

01:07:39.040 --> 01:07:41.240

Tom: That is the fault of the developer.

01:07:41.260 --> 01:07:44.120

Tom: For instance, in Dance Central...

01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:47.560

Tom: And I do have to give credit.

01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:56.660

Tom: I complained that maybe the sales on the Oculus Store were not that great, and they aren't great compared to Steam sales.

01:07:57.060 --> 01:08:00.520

Tom: I said that they do not have a refund policy.

01:08:00.540 --> 01:08:00.860

Tom: They do.

01:08:01.180 --> 01:08:07.260

Tom: But what I find most impressive about the story is Dance Central is the first Quest 2 game I've actually purchased.

01:08:07.680 --> 01:08:12.180

Tom: And after purchasing it, I did not need to re-download it.

01:08:12.680 --> 01:08:20.940

Tom: I can launch the official version of the game using the pirated version of the game, apparently.

01:08:20.960 --> 01:08:26.900

Tom: So I'm playing the official version using the files of the pirated version that I downloaded.

01:08:26.940 --> 01:08:30.420

Tom: That is top level service.

01:08:30.440 --> 01:08:32.840

Phil: Well, what would you expect from Fbook?

01:08:33.700 --> 01:08:35.000

Phil: So now Mark Zuckerberg...

01:08:35.020 --> 01:08:36.800

Tom: I thought Fbook was meant to be crap.

01:08:36.820 --> 01:08:37.580

Tom: That's brilliant.

01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:47.200

Phil: Now Mark Zuckerberg knows your real name and that the only game that you've bought on his little wonder thing is Dance Central.

01:08:47.220 --> 01:08:47.880

Tom: Dance Central.

01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:51.560

Tom: So I'm expecting a lot of ads for dancing.

01:08:52.640 --> 01:08:53.680

Phil: That's a slow clap.

01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:55.740

Phil: In case it didn't translate.

01:08:57.280 --> 01:09:08.380

Tom: But I bring that up because in Dance Central, and this is not even a dancing mechanic, which is obviously the important part of the game, the menu is your mobile phone.

01:09:08.860 --> 01:09:19.940

Tom: And you can not only use your mobile phone for navigation, navigating to different places and texting friends and so forth, you can also throw it in the club environment.

01:09:20.320 --> 01:09:23.880

Tom: And the accuracy of the tracking on that is amazing.

01:09:25.040 --> 01:09:28.720

Tom: It is as if you are throwing a real phone.

01:09:29.740 --> 01:09:32.980

Tom: So there is really no excuse for games like Super Hot.

01:09:33.460 --> 01:09:34.800

Phil: I forgot you had a point, yeah.

01:09:35.480 --> 01:09:38.420

Phil: The throwing in the regular Super Hot is not good either though.

01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:40.260

Tom: That is true.

01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:42.520

Phil: Okay, so that's it for Super Hot.

01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:48.120

Tom: Look forward to my impressions of Super Hot VR with Gargan.

01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:49.560

Phil: Oh yeah, that's right.

01:09:49.740 --> 01:09:53.320

Phil: You're saving it for your other host.

01:09:53.900 --> 01:09:55.580

Tom: Well, he has actually played it, so...

01:09:55.620 --> 01:09:57.580

Phil: Yeah, well, maybe I'll play it this weekend.

01:09:57.640 --> 01:09:58.740

Phil: Then you'll have no excuse.

01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:01.460

Tom: How will you do that?

01:10:01.900 --> 01:10:04.840

Phil: I buy an Oculus Quest 2 on Easter.

01:10:04.860 --> 01:10:06.140

Phil: Just to prove a point.

01:10:06.260 --> 01:10:07.440

Phil: Just to make the point.

01:10:07.460 --> 01:10:10.020

Phil: And cock block Gargan.

01:10:15.260 --> 01:10:16.720

Tom: Are you gonna give Super Hot a score?

01:10:16.740 --> 01:10:18.340

Phil: Yeah, I definitely give it a 9.

01:10:19.340 --> 01:10:20.120

Phil: Definitely a 9.

01:10:20.220 --> 01:10:21.960

Tom: I think that is fair.

01:10:22.020 --> 01:10:26.560

Tom: I will reserve my dice for Gargan.

01:10:27.700 --> 01:10:30.240

Tom: Because I believe I may have some further things to say.

01:10:30.260 --> 01:10:30.780

Tom: I'm not with him.

01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:31.220

Phil: Very good.

01:10:33.240 --> 01:10:42.560

Tom: Before we get on to Hot Shots Racing, I have had enough time to remember the content of your review of Ken Williams' autobiography.

01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:43.960

Phil: Oh, at gameunder.net.

01:10:44.380 --> 01:10:47.580

Phil: I did a micro review of Ready Player 2.

01:10:48.920 --> 01:10:50.340

Phil: Did you have anything to say about that?

01:10:51.080 --> 01:10:52.980

Tom: Well, I commented on that on the website.

01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:53.400

Phil: You did.

01:10:53.700 --> 01:10:55.280

Phil: And that was a true story, by the way.

01:10:56.820 --> 01:10:57.560

Tom: I'm sure it was.

01:10:57.600 --> 01:10:59.320

Tom: And you didn't answer my question, though.

01:10:59.480 --> 01:11:00.720

Tom: My comment was a question.

01:11:00.740 --> 01:11:01.000

Phil: Yeah.

01:11:01.020 --> 01:11:03.860

Phil: Well, I don't know who Begat Jean.

01:11:04.400 --> 01:11:06.780

Tom: Well, now I'm doubting whether it was a true story.

01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:08.840

Phil: Well, how am I supposed to know who Begat people?

01:11:08.860 --> 01:11:10.860

Tom: I would assume she would introduce herself.

01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:11.820

Phil: She was 80 years old.

01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:13.540

Phil: She's talking about Bible stuff.

01:11:13.580 --> 01:11:18.020

Tom: As so-and-so, who Begat so-and-so, who Begat me, Jean.

01:11:18.040 --> 01:11:20.360

Phil: No, that's not how it goes down, man.

01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:26.140

Phil: Maybe in your JRPG, in your life, in your mind, but not in real life, dude.

01:11:26.160 --> 01:11:27.320

Phil: That's not how people talk.

01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:35.340

Phil: Okay, so then I did a blog entry about Ken Williams' book about Sierra Online.

01:11:37.240 --> 01:11:38.860

Phil: It was a proper review.

01:11:38.900 --> 01:11:40.120

Phil: It's a micro review.

01:11:40.140 --> 01:11:40.680

Phil: It's just a blog.

01:11:41.180 --> 01:11:41.960

Phil: Not a review.

01:11:41.980 --> 01:11:43.280

Phil: I was at work.

01:11:43.280 --> 01:11:45.400

Phil: My computer at home wasn't accessible.

01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:48.120

Phil: I just tapped out a review.

01:11:48.140 --> 01:11:49.440

Phil: A micro review.

01:11:49.460 --> 01:11:50.400

Phil: It's a blog entry.

01:11:50.700 --> 01:11:52.400

Tom: You were tapping one out at work.

01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:54.040

Phil: Indeed.

01:11:55.320 --> 01:11:58.200

Tom: Did you do it at your own desk or someone else's?

01:11:58.220 --> 01:12:03.780

Phil: My point was that Ken Williams is someone who has never had anyone ever say no to him.

01:12:04.200 --> 01:12:10.920

Phil: And that's why he interspersed the good stuff with this bunch of crap, these chapters that he put in his book that I didn't put in the room.

01:12:11.360 --> 01:12:20.760

Phil: The first one he intersperses into his book talks about how we've got to rank people as A+, A, B, C, D and Fs.

01:12:21.080 --> 01:12:24.160

Phil: And he goes into detail about how these people are Fs because of this.

01:12:25.020 --> 01:12:26.400

Phil: Doesn't get into racial stuff.

01:12:26.480 --> 01:12:28.580

Phil: You know, it's not bad like that.

01:12:29.220 --> 01:12:34.960

Phil: But in today's woke world, even if you think it, that's not the opening chapter.

01:12:34.980 --> 01:12:40.100

Phil: Like you don't say, oh, well, hey, listener, I know you want to talk about me and Roberta Williams.

01:12:40.120 --> 01:12:43.560

Phil: We made such great games as Space Quest and Leisure Suit Larry.

01:12:44.440 --> 01:12:46.660

Phil: Now, let me tell you how I rank people, okay?

01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:55.060

Phil: There are A through F, and the Fs are losers, and they deserve to be losers, and they'll never win in life because they're lazy.

01:12:56.980 --> 01:13:00.640

Phil: Then he goes back to talking about Leisure Suit Larry and this, that and the other.

01:13:00.860 --> 01:13:05.760

Phil: Then he goes, oh, I'm going to intersperse another off-topic non sequitur chapter.

01:13:06.940 --> 01:13:16.420

Phil: Early reviewers of this book told me that perhaps I should put all this at the end of the book, but I'm not going to do that because I need to tell you how code should be arranged.

01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:18.960

Tom: Did he actually say early reviewers?

01:13:18.980 --> 01:13:21.340

Phil: Yes, he said at the start of it.

01:13:21.540 --> 01:13:35.960

Phil: He said, now, I've been told by advanced readers of this book that interspercing these chapters with this non sequitur crap where it has absolute relevance to nothing I've been talking about should be put towards the back of the book.

01:13:36.460 --> 01:13:40.300

Phil: But I'm Ken Williams and this is my book and I'm self publishing.

01:13:40.340 --> 01:13:41.620

Phil: So grin and bury.

01:13:42.700 --> 01:13:45.680

Tom: Well, now I have a third problem with your review, but continue.

01:13:45.700 --> 01:13:46.700

Phil: Okay, the third problem.

01:13:46.840 --> 01:13:51.520

Phil: Well, the third problem with the review is that I didn't say that in the review because I had to tap it out.

01:13:51.540 --> 01:13:52.640

Phil: It's just a blog entry.

01:13:52.660 --> 01:13:53.780

Phil: It's not a proper review.

01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:54.640

Phil: And guess what?

01:13:54.680 --> 01:13:56.160

Phil: I sold a copy of the book.

01:13:56.940 --> 01:14:04.400

Tom: Look, if people can arrange sexual intercourse at their work in a confessional, allegedly.

01:14:04.420 --> 01:14:05.560

Phil: Well, politicians can.

01:14:06.020 --> 01:14:14.280

Tom: I'm not accepting any that you cannot tap one out at your own desk in a better manner than this, please.

01:14:15.320 --> 01:14:16.480

Phil: So what's the problem?

01:14:16.680 --> 01:14:27.760

Tom: You are on air as claiming you would make a great prime minister, and yet this is what you're offering up as your at-job masturbation fare.

01:14:28.620 --> 01:14:31.140

Phil: Look, the site needed content.

01:14:31.300 --> 01:14:34.420

Phil: I skipped a show because I'm getting new flooring in Studio B.

01:14:34.900 --> 01:14:37.780

Phil: Anyway, what's your problem with my review at gameunder.net?

01:14:38.100 --> 01:14:40.840

Tom: Well, three points I have a problem with.

01:14:40.860 --> 01:14:41.460

Tom: Three points.

01:14:42.140 --> 01:14:54.360

Tom: The first point, which I just had on air, came up with your description of the book, is your description of it makes it sound hilarious and potentially actually worth reading.

01:14:55.080 --> 01:15:00.140

Tom: That did not come across in the review on the website, so that's my additional reason.

01:15:01.940 --> 01:15:03.180

Tom: My other two reasons.

01:15:04.300 --> 01:15:15.740

Tom: One is I do not think that this is really a very accurate attitude towards great or even good writing at all.

01:15:16.900 --> 01:15:36.600

Tom: While it may apply, sorry, Ken Williams, as we can tell from your description of the book, would be an example of why this wouldn't even help and would actually result in a mediocre, totally unworth reading book, instead of something that is at least hilarious and ridiculous.

01:15:37.280 --> 01:15:56.420

Tom: You suggest that unlike running a company, where you need some sort of maverick genius to run things, unlike the simple unambitious matter of writing a book where you need some sort of committee in the back Not a committee, an editor.

01:15:56.440 --> 01:15:59.240

Tom: You need some sort of committee in the background.

01:15:59.380 --> 01:16:07.480

Tom: Or an editor, which is a totally absurd concept, which is new to writing.

01:16:08.540 --> 01:16:22.860

Tom: And I think gained a lot of credence, not from writing, the practice of writing, but the practice of cinema, where due to the physical literal process of making films, you do require an editor.

01:16:22.860 --> 01:16:29.060

Phil: Look, I'm saying for a podcast like this, you can be bombastic as you want, but I still edit it.

01:16:30.100 --> 01:16:41.640

Phil: But what I'm saying is every time that you've edited one of my written works, or I've had someone at work with an English degree edit some of my written works, it's always better, like way, way, way, way better.

01:16:42.520 --> 01:16:43.380

Tom: But that's you.

01:16:43.400 --> 01:16:45.000

Tom: Are you a great writer?

01:16:45.020 --> 01:16:47.820

Tom: Yeah, but Ken Williams, are you a great writer?

01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:49.940

Tom: And here's the question.

01:16:49.940 --> 01:16:50.900

Tom: What were you writing?

01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:59.860

Tom: Were you writing an autobiography about some, a name topic such as you running Sierra Online?

01:17:00.500 --> 01:17:00.780

Phil: No.

01:17:01.660 --> 01:17:01.960

Tom: No.

01:17:02.100 --> 01:17:10.480

Tom: So you were probably doing this for a clear purpose in mind that would have served some purpose.

01:17:10.580 --> 01:17:12.080

Phil: I wanted to communicate effectively.

01:17:12.300 --> 01:17:12.660

Tom: Yes.

01:17:13.080 --> 01:17:16.200

Phil: If you go to Ken Williams, He doesn't want to communicate effectively.

01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:22.860

Tom: And you say to him, Okay, let's just talk about your day at work at Sierra Online.

01:17:23.280 --> 01:17:38.640

Tom: You'll end up with this book that contains, okay, what you as a Sierra Online fan finds interesting, but is an objectively worse book because as you've described it, That's hilarious.

01:17:38.660 --> 01:17:38.840

Phil: Yep.

01:17:38.860 --> 01:17:39.280

Phil: You're right.

01:17:40.240 --> 01:17:41.260

Tom: You see what I'm saying?

01:17:41.280 --> 01:17:41.460

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:41.480 --> 01:17:41.720

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:41.740 --> 01:17:41.940

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:41.960 --> 01:17:42.920

Phil: I see exactly what you're saying.

01:17:42.940 --> 01:17:50.020

Phil: The book as it was being self-published and unedited actually gives me a better insight into who Ken Williams is and how he operates.

01:17:50.480 --> 01:17:51.080

Tom: Exactly.

01:17:51.120 --> 01:17:51.400

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:52.760 --> 01:18:05.180

Tom: And the other point is again related to self-publishing because and this doesn't supply to books as well, but there is an attitude that is very much against self-publishing.

01:18:06.040 --> 01:18:06.520

Phil: Oh yeah.

01:18:07.280 --> 01:18:11.580

Tom: As if this results in a lower level of quality.

01:18:12.020 --> 01:18:34.640

Tom: But I don't see anyone citing any objective evidence for this unless they believe that what defines quality is your ability to follow a convention, which is I would argue possibly the worst way of defining quality.

01:18:35.120 --> 01:18:38.340

Tom: And you can see this that even there it doesn't really apply.

01:18:38.580 --> 01:18:51.940

Tom: For instance, if you have a self-published book that has typos in it and things like that, you'll get an endless barrage of criticism or factual errors.

01:18:52.540 --> 01:18:54.880

Tom: What is this fucking dumb hack doing?

01:18:55.120 --> 01:18:57.440

Tom: He didn't even bother fucking proofreading this shit.

01:18:57.700 --> 01:18:59.320

Tom: He's got all these factual errors.

01:18:59.540 --> 01:19:02.780

Tom: He doesn't even know the subject he's talking about.

01:19:03.740 --> 01:19:22.820

Tom: May I just suggest people look up the fact that the Encyclopedia Britannica not only contains numerous typos, but an absolute wealth of factually incorrect content that has been documented by people.

01:19:24.020 --> 01:19:32.640

Tom: But because that has the status of being published by so-and-so, no, we don't notice this.

01:19:33.400 --> 01:19:35.700

Tom: So those were my three problems with the review.

01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:54.320

Phil: The funny thing, it wasn't a review, but also the funny thing was he starts the book by putting in clip art every three pages, and then by the third chapter, he's completely dropped to that, which again, never would have worked in a book that had been professionally published or edited, but again, tells you something about Ken Williams.

01:19:54.340 --> 01:19:57.420

Phil: He's like, you know what, this is kind of boring.

01:19:57.440 --> 01:20:06.680

Phil: I think we could punch this up with a stock footage photo of Moonshine, because my grandfather was made to Moonshine.

01:20:06.700 --> 01:20:07.840

Phil: Yeah, let's put that in.

01:20:09.040 --> 01:20:14.140

Phil: He puts clip art in the first three chapters and then just trails off like, oh yeah, I forgot about that.

01:20:14.840 --> 01:20:15.500

Phil: It is great.

01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:16.100

Phil: You're right.

01:20:16.180 --> 01:20:18.000

Tom: The cover is something to behold.

01:20:18.020 --> 01:20:18.780

Phil: Oh, the cover.

01:20:20.280 --> 01:20:20.940

Phil: The cover.

01:20:21.280 --> 01:20:24.740

Phil: You know, your critique is absolutely beautiful and spot on.

01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:26.800

Phil: Thank you for the clarity that you bring.

01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:28.220

Phil: Very much.

01:20:28.240 --> 01:20:28.940

Phil: I enjoyed that.

01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:36.900

Tom: So next time you want commentary on a book Phil has read, come to me, even when I haven't read the book.

01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:39.660

Phil: Well, let me read it and review it.

01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:44.760

Phil: And actually, I'm reading Sid Meyers, who is, you know, Sid Meyers.

01:20:45.160 --> 01:20:49.380

Phil: I'm reading his biography right now, so I'll be doing a micro review of that as well.

01:20:49.400 --> 01:20:50.840

Phil: So maybe we can do that on the next show.

01:20:52.200 --> 01:20:56.820

Tom: I'll have to add while we're there, because we have talked about self-help books in the past.

01:20:57.380 --> 01:21:14.520

Tom: I've read a few books by luminaries of Silicon Valley, such as Peter Thiel, among others, and I've noticed some real similarities between self-help books and what they write.

01:21:14.740 --> 01:21:53.840

Tom: So self-help books might be on the right track, but the one difference I've noticed between the two is, as well as focusing on being essentially a charlatan, but sort of being semi-aware that you're a charlatan, but also not aware that you're a charlatan is, and I think this is the absolute fundamental thing that they have in common, is the most important thing for pretty much everyone, with the exception of maybe Steve Jobs, is to, one, have very upper middle class parents, and two, go to an Ivy League college.

01:21:55.000 --> 01:22:01.400

Tom: Those, I think, are the greatest keys to success, but I've not seen that mentioned in any self-help book ever.

01:22:02.580 --> 01:22:03.780

Phil: You're absolutely right.

01:22:05.240 --> 01:22:18.780

Phil: Again, I've just got to thank you for the clarity of thought that you bring, and we are not going to be able to get to, not tonight, ironically, not tonight, for the second time, and also Hotshot Racing.

01:22:18.800 --> 01:22:25.440

Tom: I believe you also censored my follow-up to censorship.

01:22:25.460 --> 01:22:25.600

Tom: Yes.

01:22:25.620 --> 01:22:26.960

Tom: That will be returning.

01:22:26.980 --> 01:22:35.960

Phil: We will have to leave that for another show, but with that, do you have any closing thoughts for episode 135 of The Game Under Podcast?

01:22:37.580 --> 01:22:44.960

Tom: Just again, the key to success is be born into wealth and go to an Ivy League college.

01:22:45.140 --> 01:22:46.200

Phil: I couldn't disagree.

01:22:46.220 --> 01:22:47.100

Tom: It's as simple as that.

01:22:47.120 --> 01:22:48.260

Phil: It's absolutely true.

01:22:48.460 --> 01:22:55.280

Phil: Having been in America for 20 years, I can tell you that that is the only thing you need to do to find success.

01:22:55.800 --> 01:22:57.620

Phil: With that, I am Phil Fogg.

01:22:59.660 --> 01:23:02.000

Tom: I am definitely Tom Towers, thankfully.

01:23:02.160 --> 01:23:03.120

Phil: We will see you next time.

Game Under Podcast 134

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction
0:00:07 Back

Trademark Banter
0:00:49 Off Topic in 60 Seconds
0:02:40 Tom Disects a List of Games Phil Wants to Play
0:05:25 Early Onset Dementia in Realtime

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:10:20 Rocket League Season 2 for Switch, PC and PS4 (hands-on impressions for all)

Final Impressions - Tom Towers

0:22:15 Donut County
0:26:00 Hepburn: Katamari Damashi

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg

0:31:15 Game Dev Story for Switch

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
0:37:25 Frog Detective 1 & 2

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:43:40 UNO and Battle Ship for Switch

Trademark Banter
0:44:45 Magic: The Gathering - Where are the Games?

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
0:47:00 The Gardens Between

Feature: Discussion on Capitalism
0:53:37 Epic vs. Steam

News
0:57:45 Sony VR
1:06:00 Oculus Quest 3 and Tom's Quest 2 Update

First Impressions - Phil Fogg and Tom Towers
01:07:52 Super Hot for PC

News
01:31:46 Nintendo Direct
01:30:00 Stubbs the Zombie & Zombie Games Development

End of Show
01:36.12 That's it for Video Game Content

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:07.520 --> 00:00:12.960

Tom: Hello and welcome to Episode 134 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:13.380 --> 00:00:19.360

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I am joined by one, Phil Fogg.

00:00:19.720 --> 00:00:20.880

Phil: Phil Fogg.

00:00:20.900 --> 00:00:21.520

Phil: Hey, everyone.

00:00:22.060 --> 00:00:22.880

Phil: Welcome to the show.

00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:24.200

Phil: Tom, thanks for coming back.

00:00:25.420 --> 00:00:28.580

Tom: You dragged me kicking and screaming, but I am here.

00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:39.120

Phil: We have a big show, not a big show, like a four and a half hour long show, but we have a lot to talk about this week, so we probably don't have time for Trademark Banter.

00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:48.400

Phil: But was there anything that you wanted to get out of the way before we get into some of the hottest games at the moment and the latest news?

00:00:49.100 --> 00:00:59.040

Tom: Well, we have to mention, I think, two of probably the most enticing Trademark Banter subjects that the listeners may miss out on.

00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:26.780

Tom: One of them is the top five Bible stories and on the possibility that anyone read the book reviews that I post a while, if you can call those articles book reviews, I did want to point out something about the rhetoric which I was using in my commentary on The Bell Curve as it may have otherwise appeared somewhat interesting.

00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:50.200

Tom: And another one was which is one might wonder what this is doing on a game podcast, but this sort of discussion reached the mainstream and in a big way, more to the point in a discussion among enthusiasts as opposed to a discussion among people doing political posturing or academics.

00:01:50.220 --> 00:02:00.540

Tom: And that is objectification, the male gaze and the fear of political content, as well as virtue signaling and pandering.

00:02:02.080 --> 00:02:07.300

Phil: Oh yeah, well, virtue signaling is something that comes into my mind quite a fair bit the last couple of days.

00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:21.520

Phil: Not for any particular reason or anything, but we talked about it before and you kind of said, oh no, you're wrong, virtue signaling isn't, you can't be critical of it.

00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:26.780

Tom: Well, no, I pointed out you were misusing the term and were referring to something else.

00:02:27.180 --> 00:02:31.560

Tom: I've forgotten what exactly the pedantic point I was making then.

00:02:32.660 --> 00:02:39.380

Tom: But we still may indeed have an interesting discussion on virtue signaling itself.

00:02:41.180 --> 00:02:47.120

Phil: Excellent, well, and a less heady topic, and this would probably be a feature rather than trademark banter.

00:02:47.640 --> 00:02:55.060

Phil: I've got a series, it will not surprise you that I have a series, I have a program on my phone where I list things.

00:02:55.100 --> 00:02:59.900

Phil: I list things that I've got to do, those things I've got to read, list things I've got to play.

00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:08.620

Phil: I'm gonna go through my list of games that for whatever reason, at some point while I'm walking around, I've decided, hey, I should really play this game.

00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:18.280

Phil: And then you just give me a quick, just yes, no, like, no, don't do it, Phil, or yeah, do it, or I haven't heard of it, or I've heard it, and yeah, it's a great game.

00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:22.600

Phil: So in no particular order, these are the games that I've got on my current to playlist.

00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:23.040

Phil: Are you ready?

00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:23.680

Tom: Yes.

00:03:24.160 --> 00:03:28.320

Phil: Okay, Monster, the original Monster Hunter for PlayStation 2.

00:03:28.980 --> 00:03:29.340

Tom: Yes.

00:03:30.060 --> 00:03:32.980

Phil: Spiritfarer, you heard that, it's a pretty hip game.

00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:33.900

Tom: Don't think I've heard of that.

00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:39.200

Phil: Spiritfarer, oh yeah, it was a pretty, it was up there for game of the year nominations for some sites last year.

00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:41.080

Phil: Good job.

00:03:42.320 --> 00:03:44.620

Tom: Well, that sounds like it might be a job simulator.

00:03:44.640 --> 00:03:45.660

Phil: Yeah, it's a work simulator.

00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:47.040

Phil: I thought you'd suggested it to me.

00:03:48.260 --> 00:03:49.560

Phil: Oh, this is good, Teardown.

00:03:49.600 --> 00:03:51.700

Phil: Have you seen this physics-based game?

00:03:51.720 --> 00:03:53.480

Tom: It actually looks very interesting.

00:03:53.740 --> 00:03:59.920

Phil: Yeah, and it actually prompted me, that was one of the things that prompted me to upgrade my PC when I realized that I wouldn't be able to play it.

00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:13.460

Tom: So, hopefully it's running better on AMD cards now because a while ago, when we first discussed it on the podcast, it was only running well on Nvidia cards.

00:04:14.320 --> 00:04:14.820

Phil: That's right.

00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:20.720

Phil: And this is a Voxel's physics kind of game where you're destroying things in interesting ways.

00:04:21.320 --> 00:04:23.560

Phil: And it's in alpha right now.

00:04:23.700 --> 00:04:37.080

Phil: So, I haven't really, I think that early access rather, like ruins games, ruins gaming experiences, but I much prefer just to play the game when it's finally out.

00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:38.640

Phil: There is no game.

00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:42.860

Tom: I thought you were making a comment on Teardown there.

00:04:42.880 --> 00:04:44.060

Phil: No, no, that's the name of the game.

00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:45.000

Phil: You haven't heard of that one either?

00:04:45.260 --> 00:04:45.940

Tom: I don't think so.

00:04:46.980 --> 00:04:47.900

Phil: Hotshot Races.

00:04:49.060 --> 00:04:49.400

Tom: Yes.

00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:51.380

Phil: Yep, but that's on my wish list.

00:04:52.080 --> 00:04:54.060

Phil: No One Lives Forever for PlayStation 2.

00:04:54.440 --> 00:04:55.020

Tom: Definitely.

00:04:55.660 --> 00:04:56.680

Phil: Chronicles of Riddick.

00:04:57.740 --> 00:04:58.320

Tom: Definitely.

00:04:59.080 --> 00:04:59.700

Phil: Breakdown.

00:05:01.220 --> 00:05:01.700

Tom: Maybe.

00:05:02.260 --> 00:05:02.960

Phil: You remember that one?

00:05:02.980 --> 00:05:06.380

Phil: That was, I think, a Namco first-person beat-em-up?

00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:08.100

Tom: I think so.

00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:09.080

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:05:10.180 --> 00:05:12.340

Tom: Or was it the third-person one?

00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:13.420

Phil: No, it's the first-person one.

00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:15.460

Tom: It's a first-person and third-person Riot game.

00:05:16.260 --> 00:05:16.940

Phil: No, no, no.

00:05:16.960 --> 00:05:24.720

Phil: Breakdown is a first-person game developed in Japan, and I stopped playing it back when I had it for the Xbox.

00:05:24.740 --> 00:05:27.640

Phil: I still have it for the Xbox, because it makes me nauseous.

00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:30.460

Phil: But it's one of the backward compatible games for the Xbox.

00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:32.820

Tom: I was thinking of something else, but I do remember this.

00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.440

Phil: Oh, yeah, you're thinking of Breakdown.

00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:37.440

Phil: Yeah, or Crackdown.

00:05:37.540 --> 00:05:38.140

Phil: Crackdown.

00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:39.900

Tom: No, not Crackdown, not Breakdown.

00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:41.520

Tom: I can't really call the name of it.

00:05:41.960 --> 00:05:43.440

Tom: But, um, gone.

00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:48.200

Phil: There was a game I thought called Breakdown for the Genesis and Super Nintendo that was a separate game.

00:05:48.280 --> 00:05:51.400

Phil: It was like a top-down action RPG.

00:05:53.180 --> 00:05:55.020

Phil: No, I think that was called Crackdown.

00:05:56.060 --> 00:05:57.340

Phil: Good talk.

00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:57.760

Phil: Kingdom Hearts?

00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:01.460

Phil: Unreal Tournament.

00:06:02.900 --> 00:06:04.980

Tom: Which one, just Unreal Tournament?

00:06:05.020 --> 00:06:05.920

Phil: Unreal Tournament, yeah.

00:06:05.940 --> 00:06:06.200

Tom: Yes.

00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:10.020

Phil: Um, I had mixed results with that one.

00:06:10.020 --> 00:06:15.840

Phil: It's available on Steam, but I'm not sure how well it plays, and I haven't got, or if people are playing it online.

00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.340

Phil: Um, though it's okay with bots, anyway.

00:06:19.080 --> 00:06:23.820

Phil: Um, I wanted to replay all the EDF games, Earth Defense Force games, that I haven't played yet.

00:06:26.100 --> 00:06:26.520

Tom: All of them?

00:06:26.540 --> 00:06:26.680

Phil: Mm-hmm.

00:06:26.700 --> 00:06:29.580

Tom: All of them, I assume for like five seconds each.

00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:30.820

Phil: No, no, the whole thing.

00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:33.000

Tom: Because they're very long.

00:06:34.380 --> 00:06:35.280

Phil: Nino Kuni.

00:06:37.960 --> 00:06:38.260

Tom: No.

00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:40.700

Phil: And Nino Kuni 2, I own them both.

00:06:40.860 --> 00:06:41.240

Tom: Yes.

00:06:41.420 --> 00:06:42.700

Phil: Yeah.

00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:43.760

Phil: Everybody's Golf.

00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:45.120

Tom: Yes.

00:06:45.620 --> 00:06:47.220

Phil: Skitties, Cities Skyline.

00:06:48.200 --> 00:06:48.520

Tom: No.

00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:53.120

Tom: Skitties Skyline, though, yes.

00:06:53.140 --> 00:06:54.120

Phil: Pillars of Eternity.

00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:55.520

Tom: No.

00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:59.240

Phil: Castlevania Symphony of the Night, for the PlayStation.

00:06:59.940 --> 00:07:00.300

Tom: Yes.

00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:03.140

Phil: Mask with a Q, M-A-S-Q.

00:07:04.280 --> 00:07:05.760

Tom: M-A-S-Q-U-E.

00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:07.040

Phil: Maybe.

00:07:07.640 --> 00:07:08.900

Tom: Or just M-A-S-Q.

00:07:08.940 --> 00:07:10.380

Phil: I've written down M-A-S-Q.

00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:13.580

Tom: Well, then I don't know.

00:07:13.580 --> 00:07:14.880

Phil: I don't know.

00:07:14.880 --> 00:07:15.640

Phil: Shadow Man.

00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:16.880

Tom: Yes.

00:07:17.540 --> 00:07:18.500

Phil: Zone of the Enders.

00:07:19.340 --> 00:07:19.740

Tom: Yes.

00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:21.460

Phil: Virtua Tennis.

00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:22.480

Tom: Yes.

00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:24.700

Phil: Vagrant Story for the PlayStation.

00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:26.160

Tom: Definitely.

00:07:26.940 --> 00:07:29.020

Phil: The Original Manhunt by Rockstar.

00:07:29.200 --> 00:07:29.820

Tom: Absolutely.

00:07:30.460 --> 00:07:31.100

Phil: The Sims.

00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:32.340

Tom: Yes.

00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.440

Tom: You have to play Manhunt using a microphone.

00:07:36.460 --> 00:07:38.320

Phil: Microphone, yeah.

00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:39.720

Phil: The Sims.

00:07:39.740 --> 00:07:44.160

Phil: And that must mean I want to go back and play the original Sims, not the current Sims, I think.

00:07:44.180 --> 00:07:45.280

Tom: Definitely play the original.

00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:47.420

Phil: Lost Odyssey.

00:07:49.100 --> 00:07:49.940

Tom: Yeah, no.

00:07:50.620 --> 00:07:51.300

Phil: Yeah, I agree.

00:07:51.740 --> 00:07:52.360

Phil: Vib Ribbon.

00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:54.280

Tom: Absolutely.

00:07:54.540 --> 00:07:57.320

Phil: Yeah, I've had that for the PlayStation 1.

00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:00.220

Phil: Mobile Light Force 2.

00:08:01.540 --> 00:08:02.400

Tom: I don't know what that is.

00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:03.720

Phil: It's on the PlayStation 2.

00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:06.480

Phil: You've got to look up the cover while I tell you the rest of the games.

00:08:06.860 --> 00:08:08.420

Phil: Mobile Light Force 2.

00:08:08.440 --> 00:08:09.620

Phil: Everyone else look it up as well.

00:08:09.640 --> 00:08:10.860

Phil: It's an outstanding cover.

00:08:11.380 --> 00:08:12.440

Phil: Space Channel 5.

00:08:13.140 --> 00:08:13.780

Tom: Obviously.

00:08:14.460 --> 00:08:15.560

Phil: Tokyo Jungle.

00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:17.400

Tom: I remember this cover.

00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:18.660

Phil: Yeah.

00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:21.420

Phil: Yeah.

00:08:21.540 --> 00:08:22.920

Phil: And guess what sort of game it is.

00:08:24.320 --> 00:08:25.440

Tom: A shmup.

00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:26.120

Phil: It is.

00:08:28.320 --> 00:08:29.600

Phil: It is a great cover.

00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:31.940

Tom: Definitely play Tokyo Jungle.

00:08:32.560 --> 00:08:37.080

Phil: Yeah, I don't know how you even get it or if it's sustainable anymore.

00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:41.880

Tom: I think it used to be available only on the Japanese PSN store.

00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:43.740

Phil: You're digging the list cause I'm almost done.

00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:44.580

Tom: Sure.

00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:45.500

Phil: It's a good list.

00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:46.840

Phil: Vanquish.

00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:48.180

Tom: Yes.

00:08:48.880 --> 00:08:50.220

Tom: Haven't you played Vanquish?

00:08:50.540 --> 00:08:52.500

Phil: I have, but I thought it was time to go back to it.

00:08:54.100 --> 00:08:55.420

Phil: Metal Gear Solid, the original.

00:08:56.020 --> 00:08:56.560

Tom: Definitely.

00:08:57.180 --> 00:08:58.820

Phil: God Hand on PlayStation 2.

00:08:59.120 --> 00:08:59.680

Tom: Of course.

00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:03.800

Phil: And X-Files, the game for the original Xbox.

00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:04.900

Tom: Absolutely.

00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:07.300

Phil: Now, how do you know about X-Files?

00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:12.580

Tom: Was that only, well, maybe I'm thinking of a different one cause I'm thinking of an X-Files game for the PlayStation.

00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:14.380

Phil: No, I think it's the same.

00:09:15.520 --> 00:09:19.280

Phil: It's got the, it's got David Duchovny and the lady in it.

00:09:19.880 --> 00:09:25.420

Tom: So, and it's like a point and click adventure game in the sense of Myst.

00:09:26.140 --> 00:09:30.020

Phil: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, pretty much.

00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.740

Phil: I've only played the first 10 minutes of it, if that, so.

00:09:35.280 --> 00:09:37.560

Tom: Then we may be thinking of the same game.

00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:40.780

Phil: So anyway, that's a hell of a list.

00:09:40.800 --> 00:09:42.380

Tom: Using photograph backgrounds?

00:09:44.420 --> 00:09:45.920

Tom: Okay, then fuck that.

00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:47.320

Tom: No, throw it in the bin.

00:09:47.900 --> 00:09:51.940

Tom: Find the superior PlayStation X-Files game and play that instead.

00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:53.520

Phil: Okay, all right.

00:09:53.540 --> 00:10:00.540

Phil: So that's my list, and the good news is I have all of these games, except for the ones that haven't been properly released yet, like Teardown.

00:10:00.580 --> 00:10:03.200

Tom: And the bad news is you will not be playing any of them.

00:10:04.280 --> 00:10:07.060

Phil: Probably not, in the next year or so.

00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:12.580

Phil: Well, I play a bunch of endless games, which is totally unfogged, but that's what I've been doing lately.

00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:20.020

Phil: Do you want to go into one of the games, or do you have any more Trademark Band-Aid or Bandy about?

00:10:20.760 --> 00:10:23.960

Tom: Well, I believe you have been playing Rocket League Season 2.

00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:25.580

Phil: Yes, I have.

00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:29.600

Tom: Is that a sequel, so to speak?

00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:35.140

Phil: Well, Rocket League, the original game, was released back in 2015.

00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:36.100

Phil: I could not believe that.

00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:46.000

Phil: And I initially played it on Steam PC using a controller, and I paid good money for it.

00:10:46.040 --> 00:10:50.080

Phil: It's one of the only times I've actually bought DLC.

00:10:50.100 --> 00:10:54.140

Phil: I downloaded the DeLorean from Back to the Future, which is my favorite car in that game.

00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:07.240

Phil: And then I went and bought it because it was cheap for the PlayStation 4 and never opened it, and popped it in the other day, and it's like, oh, we've got to download something.

00:11:07.260 --> 00:11:22.520

Phil: Now, that's when I remembered that in 2019, the developer Psionics got bought out by Epic Games, and they've basically given it the Fortnite treatment.

00:11:22.540 --> 00:11:24.240

Phil: So it's now a free-to-play game.

00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:27.140

Phil: So you can play this on pretty much anything.

00:11:28.160 --> 00:11:28.900

Phil: You can play it on...

00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.900

Phil: I've downloaded it for Switch, PlayStation 4.

00:11:32.920 --> 00:11:38.760

Phil: I haven't downloaded it for Xbox yet, and I'm playing it on PC, and I'm pretty much playing it every day.

00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:50.200

Phil: So it is free-to-play, and it's free-to-play even if you don't subscribe to the online components of that system.

00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:58.640

Phil: So if you don't have Xbox Gold or PlayStation Live or whatever it's called, then you can play it online for free.

00:11:59.260 --> 00:12:02.780

Phil: And you can link your account between the whole three.

00:12:02.800 --> 00:12:09.220

Phil: So you have to get an Epic Games account, which most of us would have anyway, because you're downloading the free games that they give out.

00:12:10.560 --> 00:12:13.460

Tom: Unless you're boycotting them because you're insane.

00:12:13.920 --> 00:12:15.280

Phil: Yeah, because you're insane.

00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.240

Phil: So it's not so much a sequel as an evolution.

00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:23.100

Phil: So basically it's a one gig download per platform.

00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.580

Phil: It's the exact same size on every platform, which tells you something.

00:12:28.540 --> 00:12:36.700

Phil: And like I said, I've been playing this every day, either on Steam or on Switch or on PlayStation 4 and unlocking trophies.

00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.080

Phil: The DLC doesn't carry over.

00:12:40.140 --> 00:12:42.700

Phil: Well, sorry, most DLC will carry over.

00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.400

Phil: Licensed DLC will not.

00:12:46.280 --> 00:12:50.400

Phil: And your experience also carries over from platform to platform.

00:12:50.420 --> 00:12:52.900

Phil: So you have a unified account where you can play the game anywhere.

00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:59.360

Phil: And I hadn't been playing this since 2015, 2016.

00:13:00.900 --> 00:13:02.400

Phil: And an incredible thing has happened.

00:13:02.420 --> 00:13:04.220

Phil: I've actually got good at the game.

00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:07.000

Phil: Like I'm enjoying it because I'm scoring.

00:13:08.420 --> 00:13:13.000

Phil: And I mean, I don't have to describe what Rocket League is.

00:13:13.040 --> 00:13:20.540

Phil: If you're listening to this podcast, you obviously have been exposed just by secondhand knowledge what Rocket League is if you're not already playing.

00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:25.100

Phil: Yeah, with remote control cars that are rocket powered.

00:13:25.460 --> 00:13:29.440

Phil: And the ball is the same size as the vehicle that you're driving.

00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:31.360

Tom: Or several times larger.

00:13:32.780 --> 00:13:34.660

Phil: No, maybe, yeah.

00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:36.640

Phil: Probably about three times the height of a car.

00:13:37.580 --> 00:13:40.760

Phil: And Cionics, I was looking up the gameography before the show today.

00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:44.260

Phil: Talk about a blessed existence.

00:13:44.780 --> 00:13:46.600

Phil: They had three games that were cancelled.

00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:50.820

Phil: Then they brought out two games for PlayStation 2.

00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:56.060

Phil: One of which was called Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket Powered Battle Cars.

00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.160

Phil: Which obviously was the forerunner for Rocket League.

00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:04.900

Phil: They released a couple of iOS and Android games.

00:14:05.780 --> 00:14:08.940

Phil: And a game called Whizzle, which I couldn't find any information on.

00:14:09.380 --> 00:14:12.040

Phil: And then they came out with Rocket League in 2015.

00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:23.180

Phil: And a large part of what made Rocket League success was it was one of the very first games that PlayStation was giving away for free with their online subscription.

00:14:25.260 --> 00:14:28.000

Phil: You know, they were giving away other games, but usually they were older games.

00:14:28.020 --> 00:14:37.960

Phil: But it was the first time that a game had launched on PlayStation and had as a part of their online subscription service and got massive press as a result.

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.980

Phil: And, you know, four years later, they're bought out by Epic.

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:46.460

Phil: And this is still essentially the only game they've ever made that they've had any success with.

00:14:47.020 --> 00:14:54.060

Phil: And I think it was also the subject of Danny O'Dwyer's first Noclip documentary, which you watched.

00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:57.160

Tom: It was, and it was unfortunately all downhill after that.

00:14:57.500 --> 00:15:11.160

Phil: Yeah, I mean, Noclip, actually, I meant to tell you, Noclip has a great interview with one of the guys involved with Sirius Sam 4 and the developer thereof.

00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:12.460

Phil: It's not Cry Team, is it?

00:15:13.580 --> 00:15:14.200

Tom: Crow Team.

00:15:15.180 --> 00:15:29.720

Tom: So, well, advertise, sorry, doing a tourist ad for Croatia, I think, would naturally be much more interesting than most of the places that they're advertising usually on Noclip.

00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:30.220

Phil: That's true.

00:15:30.680 --> 00:15:33.880

Phil: But that was just a podcast, so I'd encourage people to...

00:15:33.900 --> 00:15:36.200

Tom: Top five bars in Zagreb.

00:15:37.420 --> 00:15:37.940

Phil: Perhaps.

00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:39.220

Phil: I think they do cover that.

00:15:39.260 --> 00:15:44.540

Phil: But it is a good interview, particularly if you just want a little bit more insight behind the team behind Serious Sam.

00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:52.520

Tom: And if you want to know what nightclub to go and where when you take your trip to Croatia.

00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:57.120

Phil: Serious Sam 4 is definitely on my to-buy list.

00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:59.340

Phil: I just haven't got there yet.

00:16:00.040 --> 00:16:00.340

Phil: But...

00:16:00.940 --> 00:16:03.040

Tom: It had a rocky launch, to say the least.

00:16:03.340 --> 00:16:03.760

Phil: Did it?

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:04.400

Tom: Yes.

00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:05.320

Phil: Like, technically?

00:16:05.920 --> 00:16:15.660

Tom: Yes, technically, and I don't know if this has continued, but there was also quite a bit of criticism on the campaign itself as well.

00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:16.760

Phil: Okay.

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:18.440

Phil: I'm still interested.

00:16:18.460 --> 00:16:24.040

Phil: Serious Sam 3, to me, was one of my favourite first-person shooters when I was playing it.

00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:30.140

Phil: And I'd like to put my new graphics card to the test as well, which I'm sure that they push.

00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.780

Phil: So, yeah, so Rocket League Season 2 isn't really a sequel.

00:16:37.800 --> 00:16:51.680

Phil: It's more of a coming out party for what Epic has turned the game into, which is a free-to-play game where you're lightly encouraged to buy downloadable, you know, skins.

00:16:51.700 --> 00:16:52.020

Phil: Content.

00:16:52.340 --> 00:16:53.560

Phil: Content skins like that.

00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:58.260

Tom: And as before, the DLC makes no difference, I assume?

00:16:58.560 --> 00:16:59.960

Phil: No, it's purely cosmetic.

00:17:00.540 --> 00:17:06.000

Phil: And boy, I wish I could drag my DeLorean into those other versions because you can't buy them.

00:17:06.020 --> 00:17:11.100

Phil: Like the store, unless I'm missing something, is kind of limited.

00:17:11.120 --> 00:17:13.240

Phil: You can't just like go in there and buy what you want.

00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:15.400

Phil: They've got things that they're featuring.

00:17:15.860 --> 00:17:24.600

Tom: So does that mean although you can connect your account to different consoles, your DLC doesn't carry over?

00:17:24.600 --> 00:17:26.720

Phil: No, your DLC definitely carries over.

00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:31.800

Phil: It's just licensed DLC, like Back to the Future Star Wars, whatever.

00:17:32.620 --> 00:17:36.360

Tom: Sorry, isn't necessarily available on all of them?

00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:46.900

Phil: Yeah, because the licensing agreement for the DeLorean I bought in 2016 was obviously intended solely for the PC and not something that carries over.

00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:57.880

Phil: But the game itself, the physics itself, everything is just basically the same except the backbone, like the network backbone is brilliant.

00:17:59.260 --> 00:18:03.800

Phil: One of the things I remember in the last podcast, I couldn't remember the other change that made to my PC.

00:18:03.820 --> 00:18:07.480

Phil: I've actually got it wired to Ethernet now, which makes a massive difference.

00:18:08.540 --> 00:18:12.040

Phil: Yep, but all my consoles are still on Wi-Fi.

00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:16.600

Phil: And they deal with the latency quite well.

00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:18.120

Phil: You can always find a game.

00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.980

Phil: I play competitive, but you can also just play unranked.

00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:27.180

Phil: And there's a ton of different modes that I haven't fully explored, even a basketball mode.

00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:31.700

Phil: So if you haven't played Rocket League for a while, I mean, it's completely free.

00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:34.760

Phil: It's still a very compelling gameplay experience.

00:18:36.260 --> 00:18:43.300

Phil: And my memories of it when I was playing it before, it was like watching four-year-olds play soccer, which essentially it is.

00:18:43.320 --> 00:18:45.640

Phil: It's a bunch of people just following the ball around.

00:18:46.600 --> 00:18:58.760

Phil: But if you apply some soccer or football fundamentals and hold back and wait and position yourself so that you're ready for a pass at the right time, you can have great success.

00:18:58.780 --> 00:19:00.420

Phil: And that's what I've been doing with it.

00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:12.580

Phil: So I'm not saying by any stretch, I'm in the top million players, but it is at least enjoyable now to be able to control the ball, kick some goals and having a lot of fun with it.

00:19:13.620 --> 00:19:16.320

Phil: Have you played Rocket League recently or at all?

00:19:16.460 --> 00:19:20.140

Tom: I have not played Rocket League for a very long time.

00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:28.580

Tom: I think I reviewed it originally, but since around that time, I have not played it, no.

00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:33.160

Phil: Yeah, look, as someone, I'd encourage you to hop in and give it a try.

00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:36.860

Phil: You can team up too with people on your list.

00:19:37.020 --> 00:19:41.700

Phil: Your friends list is also something that travels with you over the platform.

00:19:42.100 --> 00:19:44.780

Tom: What I would ask is, how is the matchmaking?

00:19:44.800 --> 00:19:55.620

Tom: Because the thing that put me off it was reviewing it, it actually grew a little bit after the first release as it started to blow up.

00:19:55.700 --> 00:20:06.620

Tom: And when it started to blow up was when I lost interest in it because with the massive influx of new players, the matchmaking was awful.

00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:22.160

Tom: And in my experience, you pretty much always ended up on either a team where everyone was competent or a team where everyone was totally and utterly incompetent to the point where it did not matter what you were doing.

00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:27.860

Tom: So whether you were winning or losing, there was pretty much never a close match.

00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:43.440

Tom: And the only occasions where you did have something that was even was if rather than one team being stacked with competent players, you had one competent player or two competent players on either team and everyone else was totally and utterly incompetent.

00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:51.420

Phil: I think you'll enjoy it because they have like a casual mode where it's unranked and that's basically exactly what you're describing.

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.020

Phil: It's a good place to go to hone your skills and things like that.

00:20:56.060 --> 00:20:59.000

Phil: But you're going to get matched up with pretty much anyone who's around.

00:20:59.020 --> 00:21:05.040

Phil: The other thing too that they've brought over with the Epic now that they're part of the Epic family is that they've got lots more servers.

00:21:09.300 --> 00:21:10.820

Phil: But in the ranked mode, it's better match me.

00:21:10.840 --> 00:21:12.780

Phil: In the ranked mode, you can do doubles.

00:21:12.840 --> 00:21:14.460

Phil: You can have three on a side.

00:21:15.780 --> 00:21:23.960

Phil: And in the competitive, in the non-competitive mode basically, if someone drops out of the game, they'll funnel someone right in straight away.

00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:33.640

Phil: In the competitive mode, if someone drops out and you're playing on a three-person team, in the ranked mode, it's now a two on one.

00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:41.140

Phil: And it does affect your rank if you drop out too much and all the rest of it if it's not bandwidth related.

00:21:41.620 --> 00:21:47.920

Phil: So, you know, I think you'd really enjoy the ranked matches once you get your skill set back up again.

00:21:49.100 --> 00:21:51.680

Phil: Because they are really good games.

00:21:51.700 --> 00:21:53.520

Phil: I've had several games go into overtime.

00:21:53.600 --> 00:21:56.180

Phil: I've had leads swap backwards and forwards.

00:21:57.760 --> 00:22:00.500

Phil: Yeah, and it's been a compelling gaming experience.

00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:03.020

Tom: So that's good to hear.

00:22:03.280 --> 00:22:03.540

Phil: Yep.

00:22:04.900 --> 00:22:06.300

Phil: It's pretty much all I have to say about it.

00:22:08.280 --> 00:22:12.560

Tom: Well, I have several very short games that I've played recently.

00:22:13.280 --> 00:22:15.320

Tom: One is a combination of two games.

00:22:15.340 --> 00:22:17.800

Tom: That is Frog Detective 1 and 2.

00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:20.280

Tom: Another is The Gardens Between.

00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:22.400

Tom: Another is Donut County.

00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:25.120

Tom: And there's also Lara Croft Go.

00:22:28.020 --> 00:22:30.500

Phil: The game I'm most interested in is Donut County.

00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:35.400

Phil: It is a game that I have perpetually confused in my mind with A Night in the Woods.

00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:37.260

Phil: Do you know why that would be?

00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:38.920

Phil: Was it released around the same time?

00:22:38.940 --> 00:22:40.140

Phil: Is there something similar about it?

00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:44.520

Phil: A Night in the Woods was, I think, our 2017 game of the year.

00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.980

Phil: So what is it about Donut County?

00:22:51.340 --> 00:22:54.080

Phil: I don't know anything else about it other than I know it's an indie game.

00:22:54.540 --> 00:22:56.440

Tom: Well, they are both indie games.

00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.300

Tom: So I would say they're not really aesthetically similar.

00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:05.140

Tom: This is, unlike Night in the Woods, basically a puzzle game.

00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:09.980

Tom: So I suppose Night in the Woods could also be seen as a puzzle game, maybe.

00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.020

Phil: Does it have cute animals?

00:23:12.560 --> 00:23:14.040

Tom: Yes, it does have cute animals.

00:23:14.280 --> 00:23:15.240

Tom: So maybe that's why.

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.180

Phil: Did they investigate a strange murder mystery?

00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:22.040

Tom: Well, they are sort of investigating a mystery in a sense.

00:23:22.320 --> 00:23:24.080

Phil: Okay, well there's a lot of similarities.

00:23:24.100 --> 00:23:28.540

Tom: So maybe there are more similarities than first meet the eye.

00:23:28.700 --> 00:23:34.120

Tom: The real mystery is working out the similarity between the two games, perhaps.

00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.880

Phil: Does the game involve a possum-related body of water?

00:23:38.580 --> 00:23:40.460

Tom: A possum-related body of water?

00:23:40.820 --> 00:23:43.880

Tom: Yes.

00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:44.760

Tom: I don't think so.

00:23:44.780 --> 00:23:50.660

Phil: Okay, because that was what you described the name of the town in Night in the Woods.

00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:54.300

Phil: You couldn't remember the name of the town, but you said it was a possum-related body of water.

00:23:54.320 --> 00:23:55.380

Tom: What was the name of the town?

00:23:55.700 --> 00:23:56.160

Phil: I don't know.

00:23:56.180 --> 00:23:58.880

Phil: It's like Possum River or Possum Creek or Possum Lake.

00:23:59.080 --> 00:24:00.340

Tom: Possum Springs, maybe?

00:24:00.360 --> 00:24:01.920

Phil: Possum Springs, that's what it was.

00:24:02.420 --> 00:24:04.060

Phil: Some possum-related body of water.

00:24:04.460 --> 00:24:04.880

Phil: Anyway.

00:24:06.540 --> 00:24:09.980

Phil: Yeah, so Donut County, what platforms is it on?

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.060

Phil: What platform did you play it on?

00:24:12.060 --> 00:24:15.620

Tom: I played it on Xbox Game Pass.

00:24:15.860 --> 00:24:26.140

Tom: It is also on, I think, mobile phones, Mac, PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch, Xbox One and PC.

00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.360

Tom: So pretty much everything.

00:24:30.700 --> 00:24:33.160

Tom: And it is a puzzle game, as I said.

00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:36.260

Tom: It's basically a physics-based puzzle game.

00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:37.600

Tom: You are...

00:24:38.660 --> 00:24:44.840

Tom: Essentially, the story is you are working as a donut delivery driver.

00:24:45.860 --> 00:25:02.800

Tom: In a sense, it's a better cyberpunk game than Cyberpunk 2077, as you will find out as the game's story unfolds and becomes something of a corporate conspiracy, as well as a science fiction theme.

00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:16.660

Tom: But you are basically a donut deliverer, and the donut making company that you're working for is run by raccoons.

00:25:17.280 --> 00:25:27.480

Tom: Their understanding of donuts is that donuts are holes, and in this case holes in the ground, which collect rubbish.

00:25:28.100 --> 00:25:46.240

Tom: As you are going along, you are essentially controlling a hole on the ground that you move around, and as you collect more and more rubbish, the hole grows so that you can take up even larger items.

00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:55.440

Tom: So you might begin picking up bricks at the beginning of the level, then you will be picking up things like stoves and then eventually entire buildings.

00:25:56.780 --> 00:26:01.500

Phil: So this is a Katamari Damashi rip-off?

00:26:03.080 --> 00:26:11.280

Tom: Obviously it appears to be the case, but Katamari Damashi is as much about momentum and rolling around, isn't it?

00:26:12.140 --> 00:26:19.620

Phil: Yeah, but you know, you're starting with something and you're accumulating rubbish to it or detritus around the place.

00:26:20.020 --> 00:26:27.320

Tom: It's definitely inspired by Katamari, but I wouldn't say that it was ripping it off.

00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:34.020

Phil: You know, Katamari Damashi, don't you love it when white guys try to speak Japanese?

00:26:34.040 --> 00:26:35.140

Tom: Katamari Damashi.

00:26:35.180 --> 00:26:36.100

Phil: Tom Damashi.

00:26:37.940 --> 00:26:41.220

Phil: I forgot that its original name in Japan was Hepburn.

00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:43.260

Phil: Katamari Damashi.

00:26:44.580 --> 00:26:46.660

Phil: That's its name, which means clump spirit.

00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:49.240

Tom: Katamari Damashi.

00:26:49.700 --> 00:26:50.820

Phil: Katamari Damashi.

00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:52.540

Phil: Hepburn.

00:26:53.560 --> 00:26:54.720

Phil: Ah, Katamari Damashi.

00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:56.940

Phil: You know, I don't know.

00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:03.120

Phil: The aesthetics of that were ripped off by Ben and Jerry, or they ripped off Ben and Jerry's, with the cow and the green.

00:27:03.560 --> 00:27:09.980

Tom: Shouldn't we also add that Katamari Damashi translates to clump spirit.

00:27:12.360 --> 00:27:13.140

Phil: Please enjoy.

00:27:15.860 --> 00:27:22.200

Phil: So, Rocket, Donut Hole is the name of, no, Donut County is, how is it a puzzle game?

00:27:22.820 --> 00:27:26.660

Phil: So, it must not be like Katamari Damashi Hepburn.

00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:48.940

Tom: Can I just ask, by the way, when you say it was originally called Hepburn, well, you're looking on Wikipedia, and where it has the Romanisation of the Japanese name, it says Hepburn referring to the style of Romanisation that is being used, not the title of the game.

00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:49.540

Phil: Do you think so?

00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:50.560

Tom: Yes.

00:27:51.860 --> 00:28:02.140

Tom: If you highlight Hepburn, you'll see Hepburn Romanisation is the most widely used system of Romanisation for the Japanese language.

00:28:03.100 --> 00:28:03.780

Phil: No, no, no.

00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:07.420

Phil: So you're telling me that all video games in Japan are called Hepburn?

00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:08.080

Phil: Correct.

00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:10.880

Phil: Hepburn, Metal Gear Solid.

00:28:12.760 --> 00:28:13.320

Tom: Exactly.

00:28:13.340 --> 00:28:15.260

Phil: Oh man, I did not know that.

00:28:15.380 --> 00:28:17.940

Phil: So in Japan, all video games have to start with Hepburn.

00:28:18.380 --> 00:28:18.880

Tom: That's right.

00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:21.840

Tom: It's a very orderly society, as we all know.

00:28:21.860 --> 00:28:25.700

Phil: In here, I thought it was like a reference to the old actress.

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:27.300

Tom: No.

00:28:27.620 --> 00:28:30.760

Phil: Because they have that coffee, which is a reference to...

00:28:32.100 --> 00:28:32.780

Phil: What's his name?

00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.740

Phil: You know, the American author Hemingway?

00:28:37.320 --> 00:28:38.640

Tom: Yes, Ernest Hemingway.

00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:42.960

Phil: Yeah, what's the name of the coffee that has the Hemingway on the logo?

00:28:43.340 --> 00:28:47.640

Tom: I'm proud to say I do not know, and I would never drink shit like that.

00:28:47.780 --> 00:28:53.240

Phil: Well, it's come to Australia now, so you will have the opportunity, just like you had the opportunity to drink Mountain Dew.

00:28:55.080 --> 00:28:58.540

Phil: You just keep going there with your donut hole, and I'll look it up.

00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:07.860

Tom: So basically, you are growing your hole so that it is able to be penetrated by larger and larger objects.

00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:33.260

Tom: And it's more enjoyable for the amusing nature of what's occurring than the actual gameplay, because although it's a puzzle game, it really is, with the exception of a few levels where there are puzzles, that you basically just have to pick up the small items first and then the larger items later.

00:29:33.280 --> 00:29:36.400

Tom: So there's not really much puzzle-solving involved.

00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:54.340

Tom: But the whole raccoon donut delivery service and the destruction of the town through their donut delivery system is, I think, amusing enough that it carries the game to be enjoyable until the end.

00:29:56.780 --> 00:29:58.540

Phil: So obviously you paid free for it.

00:29:58.880 --> 00:29:59.380

Tom: Correct.

00:30:02.760 --> 00:30:09.940

Tom: I think it's like $20 on Steam, which is a bit steep given that it is extremely short.

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:16.020

Tom: But if something is $20 on Steam, that means in reality it's $5.

00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.300

Tom: So I think that's reasonably priced.

00:30:18.700 --> 00:30:23.380

Phil: Yeah, and we probably already own it on the itch sale of the century anyway.

00:30:24.320 --> 00:30:26.980

Tom: I looked on there and I think we do not, unfortunately.

00:30:28.300 --> 00:30:34.460

Tom: And that may well be because it was originally, I believe, a mobile phone game.

00:30:36.280 --> 00:30:48.340

Phil: I didn't hear how long the game was, if you did mention it, because I was looking up the Ernest Hemingway Coffee Brand out of Japan, and it's Suntory Boss, which anyone who's played Yakuza would recognize.

00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:51.360

Tom: They need to stick to their liquors.

00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:54.920

Phil: Yeah, yeah, so Suntory.

00:30:55.260 --> 00:30:58.140

Phil: So would you say it's a Phil Fogg game?

00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.500

Phil: Would Phil Fogg enjoy this game?

00:30:59.980 --> 00:31:04.680

Tom: I think Phil Fogg would enjoy it for at least a brief period of time.

00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:06.680

Phil: Okay, all right, fair enough.

00:31:06.860 --> 00:31:12.660

Phil: I'll tell you a game that I have enjoyed for a long period of time, and people are going to go, this is old, it's an old game.

00:31:13.060 --> 00:31:17.540

Phil: But it has been released on a new system, and that is Game Dev Story.

00:31:17.560 --> 00:31:18.960

Phil: Now, do you remember this story?

00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:21.920

Phil: It was by Kyrosoft, which is a Japanese developer.

00:31:22.260 --> 00:31:27.140

Phil: It was their very first game, and it hit big on Android.

00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:35.520

Phil: It was one of the few games that I actually bought on Android and played on my phone.

00:31:35.540 --> 00:31:41.580

Phil: Kind of like a 2D 8-bit, 16-bit aesthetic to it, where you are the person...

00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:50.340

Phil: It's a management game, where you're making decisions about games and releasing them and what genre it is and advertising and all the rest of it.

00:31:50.360 --> 00:31:51.140

Phil: Do you remember this game?

00:31:51.180 --> 00:31:51.780

Tom: Yes, I do.

00:31:51.800 --> 00:31:57.660

Tom: If it had been released after Papers, Please, it would be known as a job simulator.

00:31:58.040 --> 00:31:59.640

Phil: Yeah, well, it's a management sim.

00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.540

Phil: And you enjoyed it, as I recall.

00:32:03.040 --> 00:32:04.020

Tom: I don't think I played it.

00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:05.460

Phil: Oh, it is great.

00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:06.340

Phil: It is great.

00:32:06.360 --> 00:32:10.080

Phil: It's now available on Switch, which is what I've been playing it on.

00:32:10.660 --> 00:32:23.600

Phil: And it is hilarious to me because, as I said, you start out with a three-person studio and you basically decide to make a game for a certain platform.

00:32:23.620 --> 00:32:27.760

Phil: Well, for the PC, you don't have to pay a licensing fee, so you start out making games for the PC.

00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:30.740

Phil: So you have to pick the genre and then the theme.

00:32:31.520 --> 00:32:36.140

Phil: And different genres and themes are more commercially cost-mort or not to make.

00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:42.540

Phil: So if you want to make a shooter and have it be an animal theme, you got to steer away from that.

00:32:42.560 --> 00:32:45.300

Phil: So maybe for your first game, you make like an animal puzzle game.

00:32:46.660 --> 00:33:08.540

Phil: And what is hilarious about it, if you're into gaming at all and gaming culture, as you go, you'll find yourself making mistakes, just naturally making mistakes that you've seen companies make in our hobby time and time and time again, like overspending, where you shouldn't be overspending or a new game console comes out.

00:33:08.740 --> 00:33:16.900

Phil: And as these new game consoles come out, they are very thinly veiled versions of real life consoles.

00:33:17.280 --> 00:33:22.580

Phil: So when the Virtual Boy comes out, you know not to buy the license to develop for that because it's going to be a flop.

00:33:23.580 --> 00:33:31.260

Phil: But when the Nintendo Entertainment System comes out, even though it's going to cost your studio a lot of money, you know you can invest in that.

00:33:33.100 --> 00:33:36.380

Phil: And you get to name the games and you go through the whole development cycle.

00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:40.320

Phil: You have to basically decide how to plot your resources.

00:33:40.340 --> 00:33:45.220

Phil: So you get a certain number of beads, if you will, to put into each category.

00:33:45.540 --> 00:33:46.700

Phil: So do you want to make it fun?

00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:47.860

Phil: Do you want to make it approachable?

00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:49.500

Phil: Do you want to make it really well polished?

00:33:50.800 --> 00:33:52.860

Phil: And you go through these cycles with these games.

00:33:53.040 --> 00:34:07.920

Phil: And, you know, it is eminently fun and enjoyable and funny also because, like I said, you'll find yourself making the same mistakes that you've seen occur in our industry time and time and time again until you finally figure it out.

00:34:08.520 --> 00:34:13.240

Phil: And then you're swimming in cash, and then you develop hubris, and then you lose money.

00:34:13.260 --> 00:34:15.760

Phil: But none of this is written into the game.

00:34:16.140 --> 00:34:20.180

Phil: It's your own, you know, it's like the fun with Skyrim or the old school games.

00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:24.240

Tom: Can you make money and simultaneously ruin your reputation?

00:34:25.560 --> 00:34:26.300

Phil: Yes, you can.

00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:29.260

Phil: And you can also release buggy games.

00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:37.040

Phil: So you can release games, if you're running out of money, you can release games with them not in a finished state, but then make up for it through advertising.

00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:41.820

Phil: But you can only do that a certain number of times before the public catches on to you.

00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:46.340

Phil: So, yeah, and ultimately guess what?

00:34:46.360 --> 00:35:00.380

Phil: The success for releasing very popular games is to spend a lot of money on writing, music, sound effects, graphics, and ultimately you can get your own hardware engineer so you can develop your own console.

00:35:01.080 --> 00:35:01.960

Phil: I haven't got there yet.

00:35:02.900 --> 00:35:05.000

Phil: There's trade shows, there's award nights.

00:35:06.160 --> 00:35:15.720

Phil: And then the funniest thing was you can invest in your own people, like send them on experiences, so that they can come up with different genres and different ideas.

00:35:16.900 --> 00:35:27.580

Phil: And so, ultimately, the audience was getting sick of the fact I kept making all these robot races and robot shooters.

00:35:27.700 --> 00:35:31.840

Phil: So like RoboShot was my robot game.

00:35:32.600 --> 00:35:37.520

Phil: Kill Drone, in the PlayStation 2 era, I started making a robot shooter called Kill Drone.

00:35:38.040 --> 00:35:38.980

Phil: Kill Drone 2.

00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:42.920

Phil: And the most fun for me in this game is coming up with the names.

00:35:43.680 --> 00:35:44.280

Tom: I can tell.

00:35:44.780 --> 00:35:46.160

Phil: Then I noticed there was a...

00:35:46.540 --> 00:35:48.300

Phil: I think my RoboRacer was called.

00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:50.100

Phil: It was like RoboCart, I think.

00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:53.420

Phil: After you go through all these genres, I was like, you know what?

00:35:53.640 --> 00:35:54.480

Phil: We've got enough money.

00:35:54.500 --> 00:36:00.920

Phil: I'm going to make a story-based simulation game.

00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:03.880

Phil: And I called it Teen Tales.

00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:04.900

Phil: Right?

00:36:06.140 --> 00:36:11.000

Phil: Because I'm like, this anime just spent so much money on graphics and so much money on advertising.

00:36:11.020 --> 00:36:15.140

Phil: And Teen Tales became such a massive franchise for me.

00:36:15.160 --> 00:36:16.380

Phil: I had spin-off games.

00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.680

Phil: So then I'd do lifestyle golf games.

00:36:19.700 --> 00:36:23.640

Phil: And so that was Teen Tales Golf, Teen Tales Kart.

00:36:24.160 --> 00:36:30.220

Phil: So I had this whole exploitative franchise going for quite a while.

00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:32.080

Phil: And those were my best sellers.

00:36:33.620 --> 00:36:39.340

Phil: I started using booth babes when we went to game shows, like Game Expos, you know.

00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:44.800

Phil: So I got a real feel for what it was like to be running a video game company.

00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:45.760

Phil: And on the Switch...

00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.920

Tom: Did you play it for 14 hours a day per week?

00:36:51.460 --> 00:36:52.420

Tom: Seven days a week, I mean.

00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:57.460

Phil: Yeah, we did have some crunch and then we released Cyber Robo 2077.

00:36:57.480 --> 00:36:59.880

Phil: Yeah, and that didn't work out too well.

00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:03.680

Phil: But you'd be happy to know I did release a sequel to The Order 1886.

00:37:04.060 --> 00:37:04.460

Tom: Excellent.

00:37:05.180 --> 00:37:06.960

Phil: Called The Order 1887.

00:37:08.080 --> 00:37:08.600

Phil: It did well.

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:09.560

Phil: It did well.

00:37:10.340 --> 00:37:12.200

Phil: But yeah, no, it's a fun game.

00:37:12.200 --> 00:37:16.900

Phil: And so if you're looking for an excuse to play it again, it is affordable on Switch.

00:37:17.580 --> 00:37:20.760

Phil: And the translation to Switch is really well done.

00:37:22.100 --> 00:37:23.900

Phil: So yeah, I've thoroughly enjoyed that.

00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:26.300

Phil: But what's what you said?

00:37:26.420 --> 00:37:28.800

Phil: Some of these other games that you've been playing are pretty short as well.

00:37:31.160 --> 00:37:34.300

Phil: Is Frog Detective 1 and 2 the sequel to Frog Fractions?

00:37:35.080 --> 00:37:37.200

Tom: No, I think they're unrelated, unfortunately.

00:37:38.220 --> 00:37:42.980

Tom: That is an Australian game made in Melbourne, that I believe.

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:45.400

Tom: And it is...

00:37:46.320 --> 00:38:01.900

Tom: I find the title to be slightly misleading, because while you are technically playing as a detective, and the story sets up that you are solving a mystery, and in a sense you are.

00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:05.160

Tom: There isn't really any sort of detective gameplay, for instance.

00:38:05.180 --> 00:38:11.200

Tom: You are given a magnifying glass in both Frog Detective 1 and 2.

00:38:11.620 --> 00:38:19.320

Tom: And you could whip it out to magnify things, but you never actually need to use it at any point during the game.

00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:22.580

Tom: So it's called Frog Detective.

00:38:22.820 --> 00:38:31.400

Tom: You have a magnifying glass to look for clues that is one of the only mechanics other than talking to people and moving around.

00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:38.160

Tom: And yet it is not used for any puzzle solving.

00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:40.720

Phil: I think I saw this game on Twitter.

00:38:42.540 --> 00:38:44.260

Phil: Grace Buxner developed it.

00:38:45.120 --> 00:38:48.460

Phil: So it's a single developer that did it.

00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:49.400

Phil: I assume.

00:38:49.420 --> 00:38:50.400

Phil: I'm sure she had help.

00:38:50.780 --> 00:38:51.060

Tom: Yep.

00:38:51.080 --> 00:39:05.560

Tom: She was the director and writer and I think the former writer for Hyper, who also did the music for Untitled Duck Game or Goose Game.

00:39:05.560 --> 00:39:06.220

Tom: What's it called?

00:39:06.240 --> 00:39:07.420

Tom: Is it Untitled Goose Game?

00:39:07.460 --> 00:39:07.700

Phil: Yeah.

00:39:07.720 --> 00:39:08.420

Phil: Untitled Goose Game.

00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:08.660

Tom: Yep.

00:39:08.680 --> 00:39:24.000

Tom: He did the music for both games and the soundtrack is an excellent mix of amusing smooth jazz with a slightly noir bent.

00:39:24.340 --> 00:39:29.860

Tom: I think there may also have been a programmer as well, but she was the director and writer.

00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:31.320

Phil: Okay.

00:39:31.340 --> 00:39:41.600

Phil: I just see just by searching for her on the web, she did a top 10 list on Giant Bomb, so she must be someone that has good PR or people are paying attention to.

00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:44.140

Phil: She did a top 10 list for them.

00:39:44.180 --> 00:39:48.560

Phil: The only game she played in 2020 was Animal Crossing, which won all of her top 10.

00:39:49.700 --> 00:39:55.900

Phil: So now the aesthetic of it is like a paper cut type thing, sort of like South Park kind of thing by the look of it.

00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:57.420

Phil: Pretty similar to Donut King.

00:39:58.060 --> 00:40:03.700

Tom: I think that's your go-to description of anything that is an indie game.

00:40:04.180 --> 00:40:07.680

Phil: No, no, no, no.

00:40:07.700 --> 00:40:09.760

Phil: But it does look like Donut King, doesn't it?

00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:14.420

Phil: Here I go, I'm just listing all my favourite donut shops from LA.

00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:15.240

Phil: Donut County.

00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:20.900

Tom: Well, it certainly looks more like Donut County than South Park, to say the least.

00:40:22.680 --> 00:40:35.400

Tom: But the main thing about the graphics, which should be immediately apparent from any screen shots, is the characters are very charming and endearing.

00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:56.580

Tom: And it is essentially a walking simulator, in that the gameplay basically consists of you walking from character to character and talking to them, going through their dialogue, until they basically give you an item that you then need to take to another character to get an item from them and so on and so forth.

00:40:56.840 --> 00:41:06.360

Tom: But it remains an enjoyable experience due to the sense of humour in the dialogue, the great soundtrack and the charm of the characters.

00:41:06.380 --> 00:41:19.240

Tom: The first game, however, is definitely superior to the second because there's a subplot in it about an upcoming dance battle which ties in to the mystery in a very amusing manner.

00:41:19.640 --> 00:41:27.260

Tom: And it ends with a hilarious hip hop inspired dance battle at the end.

00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:47.920

Tom: No doubt from the childhood of the developers, both the writer of the soundtrack and Grace Buxner, judging by their ages and interest in hip hop films of that era in Australia.

00:41:48.620 --> 00:42:00.360

Tom: And in the sequel to Frog Detective, while it ends with a dance battle, unfortunately a dance battle is not written into the main mystery or story.

00:42:00.380 --> 00:42:08.500

Tom: So it's not really as impactful a dance ending climax as in the original, unfortunately.

00:42:09.680 --> 00:42:10.920

Phil: It certainly looks enjoyable.

00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:11.940

Phil: Is it a short game?

00:42:12.640 --> 00:42:16.980

Tom: Yep, I think they're both well under an hour.

00:42:17.420 --> 00:42:21.260

Phil: Okay, and the first one came out in 2018.

00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:23.000

Phil: It's like six bucks on Steam.

00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.460

Phil: I've just added it to my wishlist, so I don't forget about it.

00:42:26.680 --> 00:42:28.080

Phil: And you found this through Steam?

00:42:29.140 --> 00:42:29.740

Tom: Yes, I did.

00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:30.840

Tom: No, actually, no.

00:42:30.860 --> 00:42:35.080

Tom: I got that from a humble choice, I think, possibly.

00:42:38.520 --> 00:42:43.160

Tom: And it is interestingly published by the Super Hot company.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:51.640

Phil: Yeah, I was going to mention that later on, but I thought this only thing that Super Hot had done was Super Hot.

00:42:53.300 --> 00:43:01.460

Tom: Unfortunately, they've also done Super Hot Mind Control Delete, and I played this after playing Super Hot Mind Control Delete.

00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:13.280

Tom: And when I saw that pop up, I have to say I may be biased against the sequel due to my fury and rage that that aroused in me.

00:43:14.220 --> 00:43:15.360

Phil: What rage?

00:43:16.860 --> 00:43:18.860

Tom: Aimed at Super Hot Mind Control Delete.

00:43:19.640 --> 00:43:20.780

Phil: That's the VR game?

00:43:22.160 --> 00:43:23.980

Tom: No, Super Hot VR is the VR game.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:24.560

Tom: That's great.

00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:29.260

Tom: Super Hot Mind Control Delete is the non-VR sequel to Super Hot.

00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:31.160

Phil: Yeah, which is apparently pretty crap, right?

00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:32.300

Tom: Yes.

00:43:33.260 --> 00:43:38.200

Tom: We'll be getting into detail on that in a podcast with Gargan, I believe.

00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:39.780

Phil: All right, very good.

00:43:40.460 --> 00:43:43.120

Phil: Look, a quick game that I played in just an update.

00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:50.200

Phil: I've given a review on the site for You Know, the card game on Switch, and my main criticism of it was there's not enough players.

00:43:50.220 --> 00:43:51.060

Phil: Well, guess what?

00:43:51.080 --> 00:43:52.100

Phil: There's enough players now.

00:43:52.180 --> 00:43:56.420

Phil: So that criticism is taken away.

00:43:56.920 --> 00:43:57.880

Phil: And yeah, it's good.

00:43:57.900 --> 00:43:58.880

Phil: It's an enjoyable game.

00:43:59.300 --> 00:44:01.080

Phil: They could certainly do some more with it.

00:44:01.100 --> 00:44:07.120

Phil: They've turned it into something that's got a lot of DLC, skins and the like.

00:44:07.140 --> 00:44:17.380

Phil: But another board game that I found on the Switch was, you can tell I've been on holiday, I downloaded a bunch of games to play portably, was Battleship by Hasbro.

00:44:18.220 --> 00:44:25.280

Phil: There's a very simple version of the classic board game available on Switch.

00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:27.120

Phil: And it's effective.

00:44:27.140 --> 00:44:28.700

Phil: I mean, you can play it the classic style.

00:44:28.860 --> 00:44:30.580

Phil: You can play it online against other people.

00:44:30.580 --> 00:44:32.180

Phil: You can always find someone.

00:44:32.240 --> 00:44:33.520

Phil: It's not a problem at all.

00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:39.960

Phil: And they've also got a more advanced mode, which has some bells and whistles, which are kind of cool as well.

00:44:40.140 --> 00:44:43.800

Phil: So I was shocked, however, everywhere.

00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:45.300

Phil: The lack of Magic the Gathering.

00:44:46.220 --> 00:44:55.660

Phil: I know you're not a Magic the Gathering player, but with the new PC upgrade that you instigated, I've been playing my PC a heck of a lot more.

00:44:56.500 --> 00:44:59.780

Phil: And I said, hey, you know, maybe I can play some Magic the Gathering.

00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:06.740

Phil: Unless I'm doing something completely wrong, there's no new Magic the Gathering card game.

00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:11.060

Phil: There's certainly not one on the Switch, which is what I really wanted.

00:45:11.380 --> 00:45:17.980

Phil: And on the PC, there seems to be nothing having been done for the last couple of years, which is baffling to me.

00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:22.340

Phil: It seems to me like this should be on mobile, it should be on Switch, it should be everywhere.

00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:26.360

Phil: It's just maybe the barrier to entry for most people is not there.

00:45:26.380 --> 00:45:32.360

Phil: Maybe the people that actually play Magic the Gathering look down their nose at, you know, digital versions of it.

00:45:32.900 --> 00:45:37.680

Phil: But to me, this should be something that is done and easily accessible.

00:45:37.700 --> 00:45:41.420

Phil: And if any of our listeners, if I am missing something, please let me know.

00:45:42.700 --> 00:45:44.760

Phil: Because I'd love to play it just on PC alone.

00:45:45.520 --> 00:45:55.340

Phil: Because, you know, I don't think I'm alone in that I am an avid Magic the Gathering player, but I don't have a Magic the Gathering community in my region.

00:45:55.860 --> 00:46:00.440

Phil: And I don't know anyone who can physically come to my house and play Magic.

00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:05.800

Phil: So, you know, being able to play it online is really the only place where I could do it.

00:46:06.140 --> 00:46:08.720

Phil: And it just seems like a game that's perfect.

00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:14.420

Phil: Maybe they've just never been able to get it across the line.

00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:22.120

Phil: And I bring that up because Magic the Gathering is obviously owned by Hasbro at this point, as is pretty much everything in the toy and board game world.

00:46:23.420 --> 00:46:25.780

Phil: So, yeah, if anyone knows anything, please do let us know.

00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:31.340

Tom: I don't think there are any new Magic the Gathering games.

00:46:31.740 --> 00:46:35.100

Phil: Yeah, well, I went through my old library and you can play the old games on Steam.

00:46:35.300 --> 00:46:39.340

Phil: Some of them are not available for purchase anymore on Steam.

00:46:39.940 --> 00:46:42.420

Phil: But there's no, like, online support for them.

00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:51.840

Phil: You can just basically play against yourself, which is still enjoyable enough, but, you know, you can also play Monopoly against yourself, but it's pretty sad.

00:46:53.380 --> 00:47:00.580

Phil: So speaking of games that aren't owned by Hasbro, what's The Gardens Between?

00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:08.280

Tom: That is another Australian game, and I think also another game made in Melbourne as well.

00:47:08.740 --> 00:47:15.320

Tom: And it is a puzzle game, and unlike the other puzzle games we've mentioned, this is an actual puzzle game.

00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:22.580

Tom: And its hook is basically that you fast forward and rewind time.

00:47:22.600 --> 00:47:28.800

Tom: It's very clearly inspired by Braid, but it's not a platform like Braid.

00:47:29.220 --> 00:47:42.080

Tom: Basically, you are in circular levels, and the two protagonists always move forwards if you're progressing time, and they move backwards if you're rewinding time.

00:47:42.660 --> 00:48:14.920

Tom: And you have to figure out how to get them to the end of the level, taking advantage of this mechanic, as there are certain points where rewinding and fast forwarding time will allow you to interact with things in the levels in different manners, mainly it's based on a light and darkness mechanic, as you're attempting to get to the end of the level a light that you collect in lamps.

00:48:15.300 --> 00:48:22.280

Tom: And you can place lamps in certain areas, and the light will move forwards or backwards, depending on what you're doing.

00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:29.300

Tom: And the thus is where most of the time based puzzle solving is.

00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:38.140

Tom: There are also a few tricks with some things in the levels not being affected by the time in certain ways.

00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:54.980

Tom: So for example, water may be, if you come across a tap, if you turn the tap on by going back and forth on it, then the water will continue coming out when you pause, but the tap has been turned on, for example, as well.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:07.980

Tom: So there are quite a few interesting little tricks like that, and there's also darkness, plumes of darkness that you can't proceed through, which you can get rid of using the light.

00:49:08.600 --> 00:49:22.380

Tom: And you will also encounter lamps, not lamps, little boxes that you can place the lamp on that move through the level backwards and forwards when you're moving time.

00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:35.000

Tom: If you need to get lamp into a certain, your lamp into a certain area where the light is going to end up, or you need to get the light somewhere that you can't access to get rid of some darkness and things like that.

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.760

Tom: So as a puzzle game, it's quite interesting.

00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:43.960

Tom: Most of the puzzles are very simple, but it's still quite enjoyable to solve them.

00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:50.700

Tom: The big problem with it is that the fast forwarding and rewinding is really slow.

00:49:52.120 --> 00:49:58.040

Tom: So it's a short game, like maybe one to three hours, depending on how quickly you solve the puzzles.

00:49:58.420 --> 00:50:12.080

Tom: But if you could fast forward and rewind at a reasonable speed, it would probably be literally half that or maybe two-thirds at the most in terms of length.

00:50:12.220 --> 00:50:23.120

Tom: So that does add a layer of frustration and friction in the bad sense of the term to it.

00:50:23.540 --> 00:50:27.000

Phil: So aesthetically it looks kind of like Katamari Damashi.

00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:29.460

Tom: I think it looks much more like South Park.

00:50:29.620 --> 00:50:32.960

Phil: And Wind Waker, more like Wind Waker.

00:50:32.980 --> 00:50:36.480

Phil: But you're also manipulating common household items.

00:50:37.600 --> 00:50:39.460

Phil: Visually it looks very impressive.

00:50:40.940 --> 00:50:47.480

Phil: But in terms of gameplay, to me it kind of evokes Brothers Meets Braid.

00:50:48.440 --> 00:50:50.720

Phil: Do you see where I'm coming from with that?

00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:58.340

Tom: Well, it evokes Brothers just because there are two protagonists that you are having to deal with.

00:50:58.520 --> 00:51:00.640

Tom: And they move simultaneously.

00:51:00.660 --> 00:51:05.920

Tom: Though often they are split down different paths, depending on what you're doing.

00:51:06.220 --> 00:51:08.100

Tom: But it is unlike Brothers.

00:51:08.140 --> 00:51:10.280

Tom: It's not a walking simulator at all.

00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:13.840

Tom: It is a genuine puzzle solving experience.

00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:17.940

Phil: I love it when Steam tells me, players like you love this game.

00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:19.220

Phil: Go fuck yourself.

00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:21.120

Phil: You know, you don't know me.

00:51:22.080 --> 00:51:22.480

Phil: Really?

00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:23.040

Phil: How come?

00:51:23.060 --> 00:51:23.860

Phil: And you click on it.

00:51:24.200 --> 00:51:28.680

Phil: Similar to games you've played, Life is Strange and What Remains of Edith Finch.

00:51:30.500 --> 00:51:31.040

Phil: Interesting.

00:51:31.060 --> 00:51:33.400

Phil: I guess Life is Strange had that rewind mechanic, didn't it?

00:51:33.860 --> 00:51:34.160

Tom: Yep.

00:51:34.200 --> 00:51:41.080

Tom: And it's aesthetically very similar to Life is Strange with the emphasis on nostalgia.

00:51:42.160 --> 00:51:43.240

Tom: And what was the other game?

00:51:43.720 --> 00:51:44.320

Tom: Brain.

00:51:44.420 --> 00:51:45.000

Phil: Edith Finch.

00:51:45.200 --> 00:51:46.080

Tom: Oh, yeah, Edith Finch.

00:51:46.100 --> 00:51:54.460

Tom: Yeah, Edith Finch, I would say, definitely the narrative is, shares some similarities to What Remains of Edith Finch.

00:51:54.460 --> 00:52:04.820

Tom: I would argue that this, with its more grounded story, is ultimately slightly more poignant in its ending than What Remains of Edith Finch.

00:52:06.180 --> 00:52:10.540

Phil: It's 25 bucks on Steam, came out in 2018.

00:52:10.560 --> 00:52:14.780

Phil: That seems a bit steep for me for a game that's a few years old and is only three hours long.

00:52:15.580 --> 00:52:17.740

Phil: Just coming at it from a value perspective.

00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:18.620

Tom: $7.

00:52:19.100 --> 00:52:19.460

Phil: Really?

00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:22.760

Tom: Yeah, $7.50, 75% off around that.

00:52:23.140 --> 00:52:30.120

Phil: You might be getting the Tom Towers special treatment over there at Steam, maybe, and I'm getting the Phil Fogg treatment.

00:52:30.500 --> 00:52:34.660

Tom: I'm saying when, when it goes on sale for the Steam price.

00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:36.340

Phil: Yeah, very, yeah, I gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:37.580

Phil: Yep, very good, yep.

00:52:37.940 --> 00:52:49.180

Phil: I was surprised, too, that game that you liked, Plague, the Undertale story, Plague Untold, you know.

00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:50.440

Tom: With the ridiculous title.

00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:51.800

Phil: You know the game, Plague.

00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:52.880

Tom: A Plague story?

00:52:53.060 --> 00:52:54.160

Phil: A Plague story, yeah.

00:52:54.600 --> 00:53:00.220

Phil: Well, there was a Steam sale, like the Winter Steam sale, and it was like, oh yeah, you can buy this for $18.

00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:02.060

Phil: I'm like, yeah, actually, that's a pretty good price.

00:53:02.700 --> 00:53:05.260

Phil: It's, when Steam has sales, they're real sales.

00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:17.660

Phil: I know that's no breaking news or anything, because like, a couple of games I missed out on that I didn't pull the trigger on, silly games too, like the horrible, very horrible PlayStation 2 era game, Flat Out.

00:53:17.900 --> 00:53:19.920

Phil: They offered it to me the other day for $2.50.

00:53:19.940 --> 00:53:20.960

Phil: I'm like, nah, yeah, I'll pass.

00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:23.160

Phil: And now I go back to buy it.

00:53:23.180 --> 00:53:24.300

Phil: It's like $14.50.

00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:25.780

Phil: I'm like, you gotta be kidding me.

00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:33.320

Phil: I guess they, you know, they get enough people just buying it periodically throughout the year that it's worth it for them.

00:53:33.340 --> 00:53:37.700

Phil: But I just figured if they had it at like $3.50 the whole year, they'd sell more.

00:53:37.720 --> 00:53:40.660

Phil: But Steam has all that figured out for everyone.

00:53:40.680 --> 00:53:43.420

Tom: They're only bested by Epic with their coupons.

00:53:44.780 --> 00:53:59.340

Tom: While we're on the topic of Epic and Steam, by the way, I've got a question for you because the prevailing economic theory of pretty much any economic orthodoxy is that monopolies are a bad thing.

00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:18.940

Tom: I think Epic versus Steam is a great example of competition, but a huge number of people are infuriated that the Steam monopoly has some genuine competition from someone who is attempting to do the same thing in the market rather than find niche.

00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:56.740

Tom: So it's interesting that while the prevailing economic orthodoxy is that by everyone that monopolies are bad, consumers often very much love monopolies and arguably Netflix, when it was basically a streaming monopoly, had an infinitely superior library and both the majority of orthodoxies all actually have arguments for their own versions of monopolies and why they're superior, even though they do not like to call them monopolies.

00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:05.720

Tom: So it seems that what the consumer wants, including in gaming, especially in gaming, arguably is a monopoly.

00:55:06.660 --> 00:55:21.460

Phil: Well, consumers want convenience, as we've discussed before, but moreover than that, I think collectors want consistency and people who buy video games, they want a consistent experience, they want their library all in one place.

00:55:22.120 --> 00:55:25.220

Phil: That's probably what's going on there, I would feel.

00:55:26.140 --> 00:55:29.080

Tom: So in this case, a monopoly is better for the consumer?

00:55:29.700 --> 00:55:30.540

Phil: Yeah, I think so.

00:55:32.200 --> 00:55:38.820

Phil: And certainly, you know, if you look at the socialist paradox, it's obviously almost uniformly more efficient.

00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:41.400

Phil: I don't know if it's better for the consumer.

00:55:41.420 --> 00:55:46.900

Phil: I don't really care one way or the other.

00:55:46.920 --> 00:56:01.260

Phil: I've now just got a folder on my desktop for gaming, and it's got Epic, GOG, Itch, Origin, Steam, PlayStation Remote Play, you know, and I'm cool with having multiple ecosystems.

00:56:01.460 --> 00:56:02.940

Phil: It doesn't bother me whatsoever.

00:56:03.140 --> 00:56:07.000

Phil: The only thing that bothers me about it is, you know, having to remember what...

00:56:07.020 --> 00:56:08.520

Tom: All the usernames and passwords.

00:56:08.780 --> 00:56:10.760

Phil: Well, that, oh my God.

00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:19.820

Phil: And just try linking all of the PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch and Steam with my Epic Games account for Rocket League.

00:56:20.240 --> 00:56:23.700

Phil: I probably spent two hours on that job over the last two weeks.

00:56:24.700 --> 00:56:25.340

Phil: And guess what?

00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:25.940

Phil: I recently...

00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:27.200

Phil: No, I can't say that on here.

00:56:28.040 --> 00:56:32.480

Phil: So, but yeah, password management is an issue for that.

00:56:32.500 --> 00:56:38.940

Phil: But I think more to the point is like, you do typically, just for convenience's sake, you do like all your games in one spot.

00:56:39.240 --> 00:56:41.840

Phil: You do like your friends all in one spot.

00:56:42.240 --> 00:56:52.760

Phil: It is good when I log on to Steam to be able to see you and Gargan and Steel and other players and what they're doing and keep in touch in that way.

00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:58.420

Phil: And if you disperse it over multiple systems, it's a bit annoying.

00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:05.800

Phil: But ultimately, Steam has been a benevolent dictator, so I don't really mind their monopoly.

00:57:07.140 --> 00:57:17.540

Phil: But I think at this point, if you're still out there trying to fight the battle, you're wasting your time as much as you are in terms of being loyal to a single console.

00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:21.000

Phil: You've got to follow the games where they are.

00:57:21.300 --> 00:57:25.380

Phil: And as consumers, we've got to follow the best value and the best deals.

00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:28.220

Tom: Yep, I would agree.

00:57:30.200 --> 00:57:34.400

Phil: But before we talk about Hotshots, that's the game we're going to talk about, right?

00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:37.040

Tom: I think it's called Super Hot.

00:57:37.060 --> 00:57:38.000

Phil: Super Hot.

00:57:38.700 --> 00:57:41.940

Phil: Before we talk about Hotshots for PlayStation 1, no, Super Hot.

00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:44.340

Phil: Because yeah, I started playing Super Hot yesterday.

00:57:44.600 --> 00:57:46.300

Phil: And yeah, more on that later.

00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:46.980

Phil: Will I like it?

00:57:47.060 --> 00:57:47.940

Phil: Will I not like it?

00:57:48.120 --> 00:57:49.460

Phil: That's for the listener to find out.

00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:51.420

Phil: But let's break it up with a little bit of news.

00:57:51.420 --> 00:58:04.700

Phil: So in November 2020, there was Jim Ryan, who was the PlayStation head honcho, confirmed that PlayStation VR was not going to be a significant part of the PlayStation 5 ecosystem.

00:58:06.020 --> 00:58:07.560

Phil: And he really closed it out.

00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:13.560

Phil: He said, I'll just give you a direct quote, I think we're more than a few minutes from the future of VR.

00:58:13.860 --> 00:58:22.500

Phil: PlayStation believes in VR, and we definitely believe at some point in the future, VR will represent a meaningful component for interactive entertainment.

00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:23.780

Phil: Will it be this year?

00:58:24.160 --> 00:58:24.440

Phil: No.

00:58:24.760 --> 00:58:25.740

Phil: Will it be next year?

00:58:26.140 --> 00:58:26.460

Phil: No.

00:58:26.780 --> 00:58:28.080

Phil: But will it come at some stage?

00:58:28.240 --> 00:58:29.020

Phil: We believe that.

00:58:31.220 --> 00:58:38.180

Phil: Now, to me, if you quote, read between the lines there, that means we're out of VR.

00:58:38.660 --> 00:58:40.400

Tom: Yeah, pretty much.

00:58:40.600 --> 00:58:40.940

Phil: Right?

00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:41.600

Tom: Yep.

00:58:42.860 --> 00:58:43.860

Phil: Are we going to do it this year?

00:58:44.140 --> 00:58:44.360

Phil: No.

00:58:44.380 --> 00:58:45.200

Phil: Are we going to do it next year?

00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:45.960

Phil: Hell no.

00:58:48.180 --> 00:58:51.060

Phil: And so you can imagine my surprise this week.

00:58:51.860 --> 00:58:52.820

Phil: Sony had an event.

00:58:53.800 --> 00:58:56.540

Phil: So fast forward, you know, four months, three months.

00:58:56.820 --> 00:58:59.280

Phil: Sony had an event, you know, nothing really happened.

00:58:59.300 --> 00:59:02.000

Phil: There was nothing significant that happened at it.

00:59:02.020 --> 00:59:20.680

Phil: But there was a GQ interview, a gentleman's quarterly interview, where Sony, and in a subsequent blog, now they've made it official, Sony's announced that they're going to be releasing a new PlayStation VR system, which they refer to as the PSVR2.

00:59:21.500 --> 00:59:24.440

Phil: And it's going to improve on the original in every new way.

00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:29.260

Phil: The new headset will obviously have higher resolutions, wider field of view.

00:59:30.900 --> 00:59:34.820

Phil: And won't use the move controllers, thank God.

00:59:35.620 --> 00:59:38.540

Phil: They must have obviously finally cleared the warehouse of those.

00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:41.640

Phil: And it just has a single cable.

00:59:41.980 --> 00:59:47.180

Phil: And that's been one of the major things, is it had to have a breakout box and like 15 different cables to connect it.

00:59:47.200 --> 00:59:48.220

Phil: I exaggerate, of course.

00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:56.820

Phil: Now, the Sony PlayStation VR before the Quest 2 was the best-selling VR device in terms of volume.

00:59:58.120 --> 01:00:05.180

Phil: But still sold less than the Wii U, which everyone widely considers to be a failure for Nintendo.

01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:25.680

Phil: So PlayStation had some success and they had an incredible attach rate, which of course after you've made an investment in something, be it the Donkey Kong Congo Drums or a light gun for a video game system, you know, you're going to go out and buy every game for it because you want to validate your purchase.

01:00:27.720 --> 01:00:38.320

Phil: So, but, you know, VR has kind of gotten to that stage prior to the Quest 2 where it was kind of, you know, really for a niche enthusiast market.

01:00:38.900 --> 01:00:42.800

Phil: So PlayStation has reversed itself in five months.

01:00:44.100 --> 01:00:46.880

Phil: It won't be coming in 2021, so they're true to their word.

01:00:47.740 --> 01:00:52.340

Phil: They've said there's a lot of development ahead for them.

01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:56.300

Phil: But, yeah, so what do you think?

01:00:58.300 --> 01:01:03.360

Tom: Well, it's still rather scant on details other than the lead things.

01:01:03.380 --> 01:01:10.020

Tom: So there's not much really to comment on other than one.

01:01:10.040 --> 01:01:20.260

Tom: It should be interesting given the greater relative power of the consoles compared to PlayStation VR.

01:01:20.600 --> 01:01:33.680

Tom: So it could hopefully result in a wider market of more power-intensive VR games being encouraged.

01:01:34.600 --> 01:01:50.180

Tom: And the original PSVR I think also was not only one of the better-selling VR headsets, but also one of the better ways of getting into VR as well.

01:01:50.320 --> 01:02:09.580

Tom: So it will be interesting to see if they continue in the more budget sort of entry point level to VR, considering that unlike then, they have a much stronger competitor in the Oculus Quest 1, 2, and I think 3 has been announced as well.

01:02:10.120 --> 01:02:11.820

Phil: Good, because that's what I was waiting for.

01:02:12.560 --> 01:02:13.840

Phil: I'll get back to that in a moment.

01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:17.340

Phil: But with, I'm really encouraged by this.

01:02:17.660 --> 01:02:30.660

Phil: I think it's a great move by Sony, because I think we can see the consoles, and I know this has been said for the last two generations, but I think we can see the consoles dissipating in terms of their importance as a piece of physical hardware.

01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:33.900

Phil: I think the future is streaming.

01:02:34.160 --> 01:02:45.560

Phil: I don't like it, but I'm pragmatic enough to know that game streaming is probably the future as internet infrastructure improves.

01:02:46.560 --> 01:03:00.140

Phil: And if Sony, as an electronics hardware manufacturer, if they're looking to take their, you know, to have a physical presence in the gaming world in the future, and I might be wrong.

01:03:00.200 --> 01:03:10.460

Phil: I mean, I might be talking 10, 15 years out, but a VR headset may be the only physical thing that you really want for gaming, other than a controller, 15 years from now.

01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:11.720

Tom: And a screen of some sort.

01:03:11.720 --> 01:03:14.040

Phil: Yeah, a screen of some sort, which everyone already has anyway.

01:03:14.560 --> 01:03:28.800

Phil: So, you know, I'm envisioning that most TVs, you know, most TVs today, when you buy them, and I was looking at a OLED TV, I can't believe, I went to a major retailer in Australia, looking at OLED TVs yesterday.

01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:38.020

Phil: There was only two available, one from Sony, which was $4,400, and one from LG, which was $4,600.

01:03:38.980 --> 01:03:41.720

Phil: The salesman was pushing the Sony, which, that's fine.

01:03:41.720 --> 01:03:46.060

Phil: I mean, if I had to buy a TV, I'd probably go Sony over LG anyway.

01:03:46.620 --> 01:03:51.920

Phil: But I was perplexed as to why there was such a small range.

01:03:52.040 --> 01:03:55.420

Phil: Again, this was a massive retailer for OLED devices.

01:03:56.140 --> 01:04:04.280

Phil: But anyway, on every TV that was there, not just the expensive ones, Netflix is built in, Android is built in.

01:04:04.300 --> 01:04:08.000

Phil: So it's not even like you need a USB dongle for streaming these types of things.

01:04:08.660 --> 01:04:20.560

Phil: And as we've seen with music and now movies and television content, obviously digital distribution is something that is inevitable for gaming.

01:04:20.980 --> 01:04:30.120

Phil: So if you're a hardware manufacturer, you can sell screens, you can sell controllers, you can sell really great headsets and mics.

01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:37.600

Phil: And then for VR, you know, I think it's smart for Sony to keep in there and continue to develop.

01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:50.760

Phil: And then by doing that, it encourages all the other VR development as well, because you've got a major manufacturer putting their name behind it, not just some niche company.

01:04:52.460 --> 01:04:52.920

Tom: Indeed.

01:04:54.340 --> 01:04:59.260

Tom: And they will at this stage be the only competitor to Facebook, pretty much.

01:04:59.660 --> 01:05:00.560

Phil: Yeah, pretty much.

01:05:00.780 --> 01:05:04.940

Phil: And I don't think it's so much of a competition, really.

01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:12.480

Phil: I think all the players in VR at this stage are happy to have anyone actively promoting VR and continuing to develop for it.

01:05:13.700 --> 01:05:16.680

Phil: And certainly someone as mainstream as Sony helps that.

01:05:18.080 --> 01:05:18.880

Phil: Would I buy it?

01:05:19.080 --> 01:05:27.560

Phil: Probably not, because knowing, well, having looked at the last Sony VR set, it was overpriced and low spec.

01:05:30.080 --> 01:05:32.540

Phil: But, you know, maybe they can turn it around.

01:05:32.560 --> 01:05:35.060

Phil: I mean, obviously their console is a very powerful console.

01:05:35.180 --> 01:05:37.700

Phil: So, proved me wrong.

01:05:37.720 --> 01:05:45.200

Phil: But with Oculus, you know, I upgraded the PC, your prodding, so I could get a VR headset.

01:05:45.220 --> 01:05:47.720

Phil: I haven't done it for no good reason.

01:05:48.480 --> 01:06:02.400

Phil: And then I was thinking the other day, you know, as quickly as they release the Quest 2 after the Quest 1, surely with the success of the Quest 2, a Quest 3 must be coming around the corner and that would be the time to buy.

01:06:03.020 --> 01:06:05.320

Phil: So, have they now announced a Quest 3?

01:06:06.060 --> 01:06:09.360

Tom: Yes, they have, but I don't think there are any details on it yet.

01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:20.480

Phil: Okay, and you are still, we didn't touch on this in the last show, you're still sticking in there with your Quest 2, you're still enjoying it, you're playing games on a regular basis.

01:06:21.260 --> 01:06:23.620

Tom: On and off, I'm definitely enjoying it still though.

01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:35.100

Phil: The only reason I haven't bought it is because I feel it's like an indulgence and I didn't want my, you know, I'm always like, there's better things I could buy for my family, this, that and the other.

01:06:36.040 --> 01:06:38.660

Phil: Like a 65 inch OLED TV.

01:06:40.220 --> 01:06:42.240

Phil: But really, it's not a lot of money.

01:06:42.260 --> 01:06:44.580

Tom: Which coincidentally can also be used to play games.

01:06:44.840 --> 01:06:45.760

Phil: Yes, exactly.

01:06:46.340 --> 01:06:49.920

Phil: But it's not a lot of money really for the experience.

01:06:50.200 --> 01:06:55.940

Phil: I guess probably the thing that is holding me back is that I already have limited video game time.

01:06:56.220 --> 01:07:02.060

Phil: Though upgrading my PC has expanded that because it's easier for me to play my PC and have the family in the background.

01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:13.560

Phil: But just the putting on the helmet is like a bridge too far for me still because I'd be completely shutting out my family, I feel.

01:07:14.160 --> 01:07:19.680

Tom: Well, you can stream it to the television so that they can be part of the experience.

01:07:19.700 --> 01:07:20.460

Phil: Okay, yeah.

01:07:20.820 --> 01:07:26.380

Phil: But like I said, most of the games I'm going to be buying is porn related, so that doesn't really...

01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:27.860

Phil: I mean, that's the whole reason I'm getting it.

01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:33.780

Tom: Well, it depends entirely on your family whether that would work or not.

01:07:33.900 --> 01:07:34.860

Phil: Be suitable, yeah.

01:07:36.040 --> 01:07:36.680

Phil: And that's true.

01:07:36.700 --> 01:07:39.640

Phil: I mean, like, I found out that Mouse is on Steam.

01:07:40.300 --> 01:07:41.160

Phil: I thought that was a...

01:07:42.200 --> 01:07:48.580

Phil: I thought that was like an exclusive game, but I was looking last night for VR games and that Mouse game is actually on Steam.

01:07:48.600 --> 01:07:52.160

Phil: And I thought that was like a locked behind the Oculus wall.

01:07:52.220 --> 01:07:57.320

Phil: So that's certainly a game that I could stream to the TV and have the family enjoy.

01:07:57.340 --> 01:08:05.980

Phil: Okay, so jumping back into what we've been playing, we were talking about Super Hot earlier, the developer of...

01:08:06.060 --> 01:08:08.120

Phil: or the publisher, rather, of A Garden Between.

01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:15.960

Phil: But Super Hot, no surprise, also is famous for releasing their only game, which is Super Hot.

01:08:15.980 --> 01:08:17.280

Phil: Came out in 2016.

01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:26.800

Phil: So having been exactly five years since their anniversary, it came out February 26th, I think.

01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:36.000

Phil: They've kind of been promoting it, and now that I have the PC that I should have had, I went ahead and bought it.

01:08:36.020 --> 01:08:39.340

Tom: I think you would have been able to play Super Hot on your old PC.

01:08:39.360 --> 01:08:39.960

Phil: You think so?

01:08:39.980 --> 01:08:41.120

Tom: Yep, definitely.

01:08:41.140 --> 01:08:47.680

Phil: I mean, it's simple in its presentation, so very simply put, and I think it's worth saying because some people have missed on this game.

01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:49.260

Phil: It is a first-person shooter.

01:08:49.340 --> 01:08:58.180

Phil: It's set in a monochromatic world where the only things that have color are your polygonal enemies, known as Red Dudes, and these Red...

01:08:58.200 --> 01:09:00.880

Tom: I'd say it looks a bit like South Park, wouldn't you?

01:09:01.860 --> 01:09:02.860

Phil: No, no, it doesn't.

01:09:08.940 --> 01:09:13.560

Phil: So the Red Dudes are these polygonal guys that are made from essentially a glass-type product.

01:09:14.200 --> 01:09:16.580

Phil: And you shoot them, they blow up in a million pieces.

01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:18.580

Phil: We'll get into the details of the game more later.

01:09:20.080 --> 01:09:24.380

Phil: But yeah, it's their fifth year anniversary, so I finally bought it.

01:09:25.100 --> 01:09:28.980

Phil: I got it yesterday, I think, for like 14 bucks or something like that on Steam.

01:09:29.220 --> 01:09:31.460

Phil: And I'm playing with an Xbox controller.

01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:37.720

Phil: And it was funny because I started playing it, and the game starts...

01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:48.220

Phil: This is not a spoiler, I don't think, but the game starts with a DOS type interface with a lot of ASCII type art and all the rest of it, where you're essentially at a directory.

01:09:48.860 --> 01:09:58.580

Phil: And I went through every single folder and every single file for about 20 minutes and then was like, oh, so is this the game or...

01:09:58.900 --> 01:10:03.140

Phil: And then finally I look at the very top of the screen and it's got like superhot.exe.

01:10:04.120 --> 01:10:07.020

Phil: So I played all of the demo games.

01:10:07.040 --> 01:10:15.900

Phil: I played every ASCII GIF type situation, every folder that is there to be explored before I got into the game.

01:10:17.180 --> 01:10:24.580

Phil: And the premise for the game is essentially that someone is chatting with you on an ASCII type chat session.

01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:26.440

Tom: On an instant messenger?

01:10:26.600 --> 01:10:27.740

Phil: Yeah, on an instant messenger.

01:10:28.180 --> 01:10:30.100

Phil: And it's pretty much like the old BBSs.

01:10:30.700 --> 01:10:32.220

Phil: And they've given you this file.

01:10:33.900 --> 01:10:45.420

Phil: Ostensibly for a game that I think in the end you'll find out that you've actually been killing people, that it's like a simulation where you're actually controlling a robot somewhere and you're doing these acts.

01:10:45.440 --> 01:10:46.840

Phil: That's just my speculation.

01:10:47.280 --> 01:10:51.380

Phil: You're like one of those drone operators that work in a basement in Las Vegas.

01:10:52.340 --> 01:10:57.620

Phil: And you're essentially telling yourself this is just a video game, whereas you're actually been performing murders.

01:10:58.480 --> 01:11:00.440

Phil: At least that's where I hope this is going.

01:11:01.580 --> 01:11:08.200

Phil: But then from this DOS ASCII type world, you get thrown into this modern day computer game type setting.

01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:13.620

Phil: And you can only shoot, you can only have one bullet in play at a time.

01:11:14.260 --> 01:11:17.220

Phil: And time only moves forward when you move.

01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:19.000

Phil: So you can move forward or backward.

01:11:19.180 --> 01:11:20.900

Phil: When you move backward, it doesn't reverse time.

01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:23.600

Phil: There's no reverse time mechanism in the game.

01:11:24.080 --> 01:11:26.840

Phil: Basically, as you move, these guys are coming towards you.

01:11:27.540 --> 01:11:32.860

Phil: And so you have time to swerve away from bullets coming towards you.

01:11:33.280 --> 01:11:35.160

Phil: You can only have one bullet in play at a time.

01:11:35.280 --> 01:11:37.000

Phil: It has melee components as well.

01:11:38.640 --> 01:11:40.720

Phil: And the game is quite lethal.

01:11:40.820 --> 01:11:44.320

Phil: If you get a shot or you get hit by someone, you die immediately.

01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:48.000

Phil: And then essentially press a button to restart the scenario.

01:11:51.200 --> 01:11:54.300

Phil: It's a puzzle-solving type game I would classify it as.

01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:56.860

Phil: It's a tactical game.

01:11:57.300 --> 01:12:05.540

Phil: I'd call it almost a turn-based strategy game, almost, and be pilloried for saying that.

01:12:06.340 --> 01:12:08.160

Phil: But essentially you have to think about what you're doing.

01:12:08.860 --> 01:12:15.440

Phil: It's like the old Rainbow Six type games, except you get to fail a lot and figure it out as you go.

01:12:15.460 --> 01:12:26.340

Phil: And then apparently, you know, from what everyone was saying, you know, then you can watch the replay and have it play out in real time and feel like you're John Wick.

01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:28.760

Phil: I haven't had much...

01:12:29.180 --> 01:12:34.480

Phil: like, I've uploaded replays, but they seem just to go to Super Hot's website.

01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:38.700

Phil: I don't really see any way to really actually play the replays themselves.

01:12:39.280 --> 01:12:41.760

Tom: It should play automatically at the end of the level.

01:12:41.780 --> 01:12:44.640

Phil: Well, it does, but it just speeds through it in first-person perspective.

01:12:44.660 --> 01:12:58.400

Phil: And I was thinking that they're going to have it in like a third-person perspective, so you could actually see how badass everything looked when it went down, and that there'd be some directorial view applied to it, so that it would look kind of cool like in a movie.

01:12:58.420 --> 01:13:03.560

Phil: But really, it's replaying it in real time from the first-person's perspective, unless I'm missing something.

01:13:03.820 --> 01:13:04.820

Tom: No, that's what it does.

01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:05.160

Phil: Yep.

01:13:06.500 --> 01:13:15.060

Phil: So, like usually with games like this, particularly with limited time, when I come to the first challenge, I'll go, okay, yep, I get it.

01:13:15.140 --> 01:13:16.440

Phil: I can talk about the game enough.

01:13:16.780 --> 01:13:17.760

Phil: I know what this game is.

01:13:17.780 --> 01:13:19.500

Phil: And when I have more time, I'll come back to it.

01:13:20.140 --> 01:13:27.520

Phil: And there was a couple of times as I was playing it in those two-hour periods where they introduced a new mechanic, I couldn't quite figure it out immediately.

01:13:28.620 --> 01:13:33.740

Phil: And I closed down the game and then would come back to it like three minutes later.

01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:36.440

Phil: I go, nah, you know, I should probably figure this out.

01:13:36.460 --> 01:13:37.560

Phil: Let me just try and figure it out.

01:13:37.580 --> 01:13:39.500

Phil: And not because we're doing the show today or anything.

01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:46.180

Phil: I was just like, it was compelling enough for me to go back and try and fail again until I succeeded.

01:13:46.200 --> 01:13:47.300

Phil: And I kept doing that.

01:13:47.700 --> 01:13:50.520

Phil: But there were times during the game where I was like, okay, yep, I get it.

01:13:51.760 --> 01:13:52.920

Phil: Not really my kind of game.

01:13:52.940 --> 01:13:54.740

Phil: I was expecting more of a first person shooter.

01:13:55.960 --> 01:14:05.440

Phil: But the game is compelling enough to get you to get, at least it got me to come back time and time and time again and figure out those levels.

01:14:05.580 --> 01:14:07.140

Phil: And it's fun.

01:14:07.160 --> 01:14:08.680

Phil: It's a fun game to noodle out.

01:14:10.120 --> 01:14:16.800

Tom: Yeah, because the feedback loop is so short, it really encourages you to keep going and going and going.

01:14:17.140 --> 01:14:18.080

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:26.940

Tom: And you're also constantly rewarded with each step that you figure out, with each new red man you've worked out how to kill.

01:14:28.480 --> 01:14:38.220

Phil: And coming up with different ways, like one of the biggest problems you have in a game is when you get stuck in a rut, like in this type of game.

01:14:38.240 --> 01:14:46.080

Phil: And you can do it in a campaign mode, in a first person shooter or any game really, where you're just going through it and you're constantly getting killed.

01:14:46.480 --> 01:14:50.120

Phil: And you have to remind yourself, okay, maybe this time go left instead of right.

01:14:50.340 --> 01:14:52.140

Phil: You know, don't get stuck.

01:14:52.400 --> 01:14:58.160

Phil: And then people say, oh, I was stuck in this game, I was stuck in this game, I turned it off, I came back the next day, I got it the first time.

01:14:58.640 --> 01:15:04.780

Phil: And that's because you get out of the rut and then come back and attack it at a different way, even if you're not conscious of it.

01:15:06.500 --> 01:15:08.740

Phil: And that's good life advice as well, by the way.

01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:13.180

Phil: But yeah, I really enjoy this game.

01:15:13.420 --> 01:15:16.640

Phil: I can see why it got all the kudos it did.

01:15:17.040 --> 01:15:20.160

Phil: I absolutely cannot believe it's five years.

01:15:20.180 --> 01:15:23.640

Phil: I would have thought it came out not last year, but probably the year before.

01:15:24.400 --> 01:15:36.740

Phil: And it does get crossed in my mind with the game Control by the Max Payne guys as well, for some reason.

01:15:36.760 --> 01:15:37.420

Phil: I don't know why.

01:15:38.480 --> 01:15:39.660

Phil: But yeah, I'm super hyped.

01:15:39.660 --> 01:15:44.580

Tom: Well, that's a brutalist aesthetic, and this is a minimalist aesthetic.

01:15:44.640 --> 01:15:59.180

Tom: And while they may share quite a few differences in terms of the sort of feeling they're trying to evoke, they're also pretty similar in their use of massive amounts of space, blank space.

01:15:59.300 --> 01:16:03.100

Phil: I've not seen a single video or picture of Control.

01:16:03.120 --> 01:16:14.600

Tom: Well, you may then be mixing the two together because the third game in the series is Super Hot Mind Control Elite.

01:16:15.980 --> 01:16:17.620

Tom: So it has Control in the title.

01:16:18.120 --> 01:16:18.620

Tom: Oh, okay.

01:16:18.660 --> 01:16:19.240

Phil: That could be it.

01:16:19.260 --> 01:16:27.500

Phil: And you know, it could be that they have similar cover art too because I do that a fair bit as well because I'm a visual learner kind of guy.

01:16:28.160 --> 01:16:30.840

Tom: Would you describe South Park as brutalist?

01:16:33.260 --> 01:16:37.700

Phil: I am happy to admit my ignorance and I don't know what the brutalist aesthetic is.

01:16:38.020 --> 01:16:38.780

Phil: And you know what?

01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:46.900

Phil: I bet our listeners are happy that I don't because I'm aware of brutalist architecture.

01:16:46.920 --> 01:16:47.900

Phil: Is it a similar type?

01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:49.980

Tom: That's what I'm referring to.

01:16:50.040 --> 01:16:50.720

Phil: Yeah, okay, yep.

01:16:50.740 --> 01:16:57.980

Phil: So kind of blocky, ugly, square jaw, concrete kind of structures.

01:16:58.540 --> 01:16:59.040

Tom: Correct.

01:16:59.040 --> 01:17:00.080

Phil: Which I'm not a fan of.

01:17:01.080 --> 01:17:03.580

Tom: I would describe South Park as brutalist.

01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:06.560

Phil: Yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah.

01:17:06.580 --> 01:17:07.780

Phil: I can go with that.

01:17:07.800 --> 01:17:10.080

Phil: A lot more colour in South Park though.

01:17:14.180 --> 01:17:19.380

Tom: But very browny, mixed colours.

01:17:19.500 --> 01:17:24.920

Phil: There's a Soviet kind of, there's an Eastern European, Soviet twist to South Park, I think.

01:17:24.920 --> 01:17:25.940

Phil: I mean, it's set in a snowy...

01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:31.740

Tom: Well, brutalism is more so, it's not really Soviet.

01:17:31.740 --> 01:17:41.940

Tom: It's a mix of all of the social-inspired architecture.

01:17:42.060 --> 01:17:43.380

Tom: It's across the world.

01:17:44.720 --> 01:17:49.980

Phil: It also strikes me as being Italian in some way, but that's because they all love their concrete so much.

01:17:51.140 --> 01:17:55.940

Tom: I think the epitome of it, especially for ugliness, is Great Britain.

01:17:56.840 --> 01:18:01.200

Phil: Okay, with their flats, with their big public service buildings.

01:18:01.360 --> 01:18:09.540

Tom: Yep, and they have some very impressive theatres and museums made in that style as well.

01:18:09.560 --> 01:18:11.940

Phil: So it's a very blocky kind of thing to me.

01:18:11.940 --> 01:18:13.560

Phil: Very concrete-y, very blocky.

01:18:15.300 --> 01:18:15.820

Tom: Exactly.

01:18:16.080 --> 01:18:18.840

Phil: Okay, so now your experience with Super Hot.

01:18:18.860 --> 01:18:22.760

Phil: I can't believe we haven't talked about this on the show before, but it was a notable game.

01:18:22.780 --> 01:18:25.200

Phil: We're both into shooters, we're both into creative type games.

01:18:26.580 --> 01:18:30.560

Phil: So how come we haven't talked about it before and what was your impressions?

01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:49.580

Tom: Well, my impressions I will just add a little bit here because I will save my most detailed impressions where I'll be getting into the other games as well for an upcoming episode with Gargan in which we'll be discussing both Super Hot and Doom Eternal.

01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:50.800

Phil: Oh, okay.

01:18:50.820 --> 01:18:51.420

Phil: I'm excited about that.

01:18:51.440 --> 01:18:52.700

Tom: I also need to get around to playing that.

01:18:52.720 --> 01:19:03.940

Tom: But I endorse everything you've said and I think the only thing I would add to your impressions is two things.

01:19:04.180 --> 01:19:08.960

Tom: One, the ASCII aesthetic at the beginning of the game is...

01:19:09.260 --> 01:19:21.120

Tom: and you haven't played enough for this to be apparent, so it's not something you've missed, but is really nicely integrated into how the story unfolds.

01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:38.900

Tom: Not so much the ASCII aspect of it, but the use of breaking the fourth wall and changes to the aesthetic as you're playing are really well done, and they make the atmosphere much more interesting than it otherwise would have been.

01:19:38.920 --> 01:20:01.680

Tom: And the other really enjoyable thing about the game, which is again exactly like Rainbow Six, which is a great comparison, is it's not merely puzzle-solving strategy, but it combines that with your reflexes in the context of a first-person shooter, as well as your skill at moving around in the environment.

01:20:02.060 --> 01:20:13.380

Tom: And it becomes again like Rainbow Six, a game where you can play the same scenario again and again and again, once you've figured out how to kill everyone there.

01:20:13.580 --> 01:20:21.860

Tom: So that's not an issue, and you're just working out how to go through it as fast as possible, and in the most interesting manner.

01:20:21.900 --> 01:20:37.440

Tom: So it really is one of the best first-person shooters of its era, and up there with the likes of the greatest in the genre, for example, Rainbow Six.

01:20:39.740 --> 01:20:42.840

Phil: Would you describe it as a first-person shooter though, really?

01:20:43.460 --> 01:20:44.120

Tom: Absolutely.

01:20:44.740 --> 01:20:48.660

Tom: If Rainbow Six is a first-person shooter, this is a first-person shooter.

01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:51.080

Phil: I don't know that Rainbow Six is a first-person shooter.

01:20:53.240 --> 01:20:54.460

Tom: It is a first-person shooter.

01:20:56.240 --> 01:21:05.420

Tom: I think people, the first-person shooter genre, as opposed to many genres, is one that people like to limit.

01:21:05.440 --> 01:21:13.620

Tom: And I used to be of that opinion, but I think it's actually more interesting if you consider Metroid Prime to be a first-person shooter.

01:21:15.040 --> 01:21:21.220

Phil: I consider Metroid Prime to be a walking simulator, but I'm not a very good one at that.

01:21:21.580 --> 01:21:26.840

Tom: Okay, well, that's the end of The Game Under Podcast.

01:21:26.860 --> 01:21:28.000

Tom: It was fun while it lasted.

01:21:28.800 --> 01:21:31.060

Phil: I finally found out how to end the show.

01:21:31.080 --> 01:21:40.620

Phil: Yeah, so, and to be fair, I've never played the Metroid Prime trilogy.

01:21:40.620 --> 01:21:41.280

Phil: I own them.

01:21:41.300 --> 01:21:42.360

Phil: I haven't played them.

01:21:42.380 --> 01:21:58.420

Phil: So with Super Hot, the one thing I really respected about it was its ability to communicate the lethality of firearms and also the difficulty of operating a firearm.

01:21:59.040 --> 01:22:11.140

Phil: Because limiting you to having a single shot in play made you really respect your ammunition and your weapon and your decision to shoot.

01:22:12.540 --> 01:22:25.180

Phil: So, like in most video games, it's like when you're playing arcade coin op conversions where you're not actually having to put in 25 cents or 20 cents to continue.

01:22:25.200 --> 01:22:26.420

Phil: You've got endless continues.

01:22:26.440 --> 01:22:31.680

Phil: You can just pull the trigger constantly and bullets will come out.

01:22:32.020 --> 01:22:35.720

Phil: But when you're shooting in this game, it's a deliberate act.

01:22:38.120 --> 01:22:41.700

Phil: And you really stop and consider where I'm going to shoot.

01:22:42.120 --> 01:22:44.840

Phil: The other thing I like about it is that...

01:22:45.040 --> 01:22:46.280

Tom: I would add to that.

01:22:46.300 --> 01:23:09.600

Tom: I would endorse what you said, but in fact take it in an entirely different direction in that while simultaneously it does all that, when you are either when you're attending to do things quickly or even when you're just trying to figure things out, the other thing it does really well and in stark contrast to any...

01:23:11.580 --> 01:23:49.140

Tom: arguably any other first person shooter, if you're not playing it competitively, is the conflict and the violence in it, the way it plays out is through totally automatic interactions in that when you are actually playing well or even when you're learning the thing, while you are thinking about what you're meant to be doing, how you actually proceed through it is a purely automatic response based on what you have learnt up to that point in the game.

01:23:50.120 --> 01:24:05.100

Phil: And to me that captures a primal survival instinct as well, because when these guys are coming at you, and it's funny that they're not coming at you until you actually act, you actually move forward.

01:24:05.260 --> 01:24:07.920

Tom: I think technically time progresses very slowly.

01:24:07.940 --> 01:24:12.540

Phil: Yeah, and I learnt that by leaving it on the screen for a while while I did something else.

01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:20.800

Phil: But you get that home invasion type feel to it, like these guys are coming to kill me, I've got to do something.

01:24:21.740 --> 01:24:36.900

Phil: It's not like a passive, oh they're on the other side, we're in a war, yeah I should probably shoot the guy, you know, it is much more urgent and present of a danger that you feel in this game.

01:24:38.600 --> 01:24:52.000

Phil: Because these guys mean business, and you've read interviews with developers that say yeah, we developed the AI and the AI was too good, which is what they say commonly, and we had to tune it down.

01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:57.220

Tom: Which I think is nonsense.

01:24:58.060 --> 01:25:09.760

Tom: I mean, what they mean by that is in the sense of the AI being good due to unrealistic things unrelated to their behaviour.

01:25:10.080 --> 01:25:11.440

Phil: Yeah, I agree also.

01:25:11.820 --> 01:25:28.360

Phil: But I think with this game too, the other thing that it respects and values, that I haven't seen in any other games, though I'm sure this comes up in sniper games, and I've seen it in sniper games as well, but not to this extent, is aiming and leading on a target.

01:25:30.060 --> 01:25:39.880

Phil: When I was a kid, my grandfather, I was just playing around with a toy gun or a stick or something in the backyard, pretending to shoot some ducks that were flying through the air.

01:25:40.260 --> 01:25:44.280

Phil: He's like, no, you don't point at the duck, you've got to point in front of the duck.

01:25:44.700 --> 01:25:54.060

Phil: If you're going to shoot a bird in flight, you've got to account for the time the bullet's going to go and wind and anticipate where that bullet's going to go.

01:25:54.380 --> 01:26:02.060

Phil: While this has been a part of sniper games, certainly you learn quickly in this game that you can't shoot at a target where it is currently.

01:26:02.080 --> 01:26:05.020

Phil: You've got to be shooting at a target where it's going to be.

01:26:05.740 --> 01:26:13.440

Phil: Similarly, when I was a younger person, I'd go, oh, why'd those cops have to shoot the guy to kill him?

01:26:13.640 --> 01:26:15.420

Phil: Couldn't they have just shot him in the leg?

01:26:15.440 --> 01:26:26.540

Phil: Then I heard an interview with a cop and he's like, no, we're trying to shoot to stop, which means we're shooting for mass, which means you're shooting for the chest.

01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:35.840

Phil: You're not shooting, because if you shoot at the leg, you're going to probably miss and it's probably not going to stop the guy because of adrenaline.

01:26:35.860 --> 01:26:38.880

Phil: He's going to keep coming at you with the knife or the gun or whatever else.

01:26:38.900 --> 01:26:40.480

Phil: Basically, you've got to shoot to stop.

01:26:41.160 --> 01:26:51.760

Phil: That's one of the things that hasn't been emphasized to me in many video games, but this one emphasized as well that if I'm shooting at a moving target, I better know where he's going to be by the time the bullet gets to him.

01:26:52.320 --> 01:26:57.880

Phil: And I also better shoot for mass because there's no finesse there.

01:26:57.900 --> 01:27:01.900

Phil: So you're going to shoot for the biggest part of your opponent's body.

01:27:02.680 --> 01:27:07.760

Tom: And that's also a part of the militarized training of police as well.

01:27:07.780 --> 01:27:08.120

Phil: Yeah.

01:27:08.160 --> 01:27:08.620

Phil: Well, yeah.

01:27:09.320 --> 01:27:19.980

Phil: And so, yeah, so for me, I thought the game took the violent act of shooting someone, or at least it imparted it in a very serious manner.

01:27:20.580 --> 01:27:23.640

Phil: And so when I was playing it, I was taking it very seriously.

01:27:23.660 --> 01:27:34.880

Phil: And even though these guys are just red dudes made out of these rough, polygonal glass-like matter, you know, yeah.

01:27:35.100 --> 01:27:37.640

Phil: And you can restart continually.

01:27:39.380 --> 01:27:44.640

Phil: So it was amazing to me that they actually added some gravity to what you're actually doing.

01:27:46.620 --> 01:27:59.720

Phil: So part of the five-year anniversary is if you buy this game, it basically loads you out at the start in a menu where you can play the original Super Hot, and then next to it they've got the sequel, and then next to that they've got the VR experience.

01:28:01.500 --> 01:28:05.140

Phil: I know we're running out of time here, so you've played the VR experience?

01:28:05.900 --> 01:28:06.580

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:28:06.600 --> 01:28:08.760

Phil: We talked about that a couple of shows ago.

01:28:09.980 --> 01:28:11.460

Phil: But have you played the sequel?

01:28:12.280 --> 01:28:12.960

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:28:13.540 --> 01:28:27.120

Phil: And as I recall, the sequel, in most camps, people lapped it up, and it was like, great, you know, a sequel is basically going to be Super Hot with more levels, but didn't they screw it up by doing like procedurally generated levels or some nonsense?

01:28:27.240 --> 01:28:27.920

Tom: Yes, they did.

01:28:28.340 --> 01:28:28.800

Phil: They did?

01:28:28.820 --> 01:28:29.600

Phil: Okay.

01:28:30.360 --> 01:28:31.140

Phil: And how did that go?

01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:33.660

Tom: That's not the only way they screwed it up.

01:28:34.100 --> 01:28:59.800

Tom: The sequel is horrendous in pretty much every way, and the addition to it could have been interesting with more powers and so forth, due to the way in which you are given those powers, rather, and the procedural generation of the levels, even that, which could have been a great addition to the game, is horrendous, sadly.

01:28:59.980 --> 01:29:07.900

Phil: Now, are they procedurally generated on the fly, or did they just use procedural generation to create the worlds, a la No Man's Sky or whatever?

01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:10.340

Tom: They're procedurally generated each time.

01:29:10.680 --> 01:29:12.740

Phil: Ooh, that's terrible.

01:29:13.500 --> 01:29:15.560

Phil: I mean, one of the great things about the...

01:29:15.680 --> 01:29:23.640

Tom: And not only that, given these generic levels in the game, it's like 10 times the length of the original.

01:29:24.460 --> 01:29:26.580

Phil: I mean, how can they do that?

01:29:26.600 --> 01:29:32.560

Phil: Because the whole charm of the game I'm currently playing are these super crafted levels.

01:29:33.220 --> 01:29:33.480

Tom: Yep.

01:29:33.940 --> 01:29:34.980

Phil: And how did that...

01:29:35.940 --> 01:29:36.340

Tom: How?

01:29:36.360 --> 01:29:36.780

Phil: Why?

01:29:37.900 --> 01:29:38.880

Phil: They had all this money.

01:29:38.900 --> 01:29:39.880

Phil: They made lots of money.

01:29:39.900 --> 01:29:41.580

Phil: And then they shut out...

01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:44.160

Tom: Maybe it's CD Projekt Red all over again.

01:29:44.180 --> 01:29:45.480

Phil: It could be hubris.

01:29:45.800 --> 01:29:49.820

Phil: I mean, having played Game Dev Story, I know what that's like.

01:29:49.840 --> 01:29:55.120

Phil: I mean, when I released Teen Tales Cart, I was on top of the world.

01:29:55.380 --> 01:29:59.420

Phil: But, yeah, we spent a lot of time on Polish.

01:29:59.460 --> 01:30:01.940

Phil: But, you know, we didn't make it very approachable.

01:30:02.820 --> 01:30:04.360

Phil: Anyway, we advertised the hell out of it.

01:30:04.380 --> 01:30:08.760

Phil: And it's still sold, which I'm sure is what happened with Super Hot 2 or whatever it's called.

01:30:08.780 --> 01:30:09.420

Phil: What is it called?

01:30:10.220 --> 01:30:11.460

Tom: Mind Control Delete.

01:30:11.460 --> 01:30:12.540

Phil: Mind Control Delete.

01:30:12.560 --> 01:30:13.080

Phil: Yeah.

01:30:13.100 --> 01:30:13.560

Phil: Horrible.

01:30:14.220 --> 01:30:15.180

Phil: Old Control Delete.

01:30:15.200 --> 01:30:15.800

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:30:16.260 --> 01:30:16.760

Phil: Not bad.

01:30:17.420 --> 01:30:19.840

Phil: So procedurally generated levels, how does that even work?

01:30:21.280 --> 01:30:28.900

Phil: So when you fail a level and you go and restart it immediately, like I do in Super Hot, is it the same level or does it change again?

01:30:30.440 --> 01:30:34.060

Tom: In that case, it's the same level when you die and restart.

01:30:34.080 --> 01:30:37.460

Tom: But worse than that, there aren't really levels in that sense.

01:30:37.520 --> 01:30:45.980

Tom: Each level is actually a series of several different levels with a limited number of hearts.

01:30:46.000 --> 01:31:01.340

Tom: So you can die three times across, say, ten levels, at the end of which, if you die, then you start again and you can continue through the same ten procedurally generated levels.

01:31:01.920 --> 01:31:06.460

Tom: Or if you quit and come back later, then it will be ten different procedurally generated levels.

01:31:07.880 --> 01:31:08.640

Phil: Sounds terrible.

01:31:09.760 --> 01:31:10.120

Tom: It is.

01:31:11.500 --> 01:31:14.500

Phil: And like, did you go into this thinking just like I was thinking?

01:31:14.520 --> 01:31:15.240

Phil: Oh, this is great.

01:31:15.260 --> 01:31:16.100

Phil: I love Super Hot.

01:31:16.340 --> 01:31:18.360

Phil: This is just going to be like a level pack.

01:31:19.800 --> 01:31:20.300

Tom: Pretty much.

01:31:22.200 --> 01:31:26.880

Phil: That's like the most bummer thing I've heard in the last three hours.

01:31:28.320 --> 01:31:30.500

Phil: So, is that it for Super Hot?

01:31:31.320 --> 01:31:32.460

Tom: It is, indeed.

01:31:32.480 --> 01:31:40.960

Phil: Yeah, I think probably when you bring up Super Hot, Mind Control, Alt, Delete, that's probably the time to stop talking about Super Hot.

01:31:41.700 --> 01:31:45.180

Tom: Very, very wise statement there, Phil.

01:31:45.640 --> 01:31:46.140

Phil: Thank you.

01:31:46.740 --> 01:31:50.980

Phil: Just really quick, in other news, this was a big gaming news week.

01:31:51.200 --> 01:31:53.200

Phil: There haven't been many of them in the last six months.

01:31:53.740 --> 01:31:57.220

Phil: Nintendo had a Nintendo Direct for the first time in over a year.

01:31:57.600 --> 01:31:59.820

Phil: They announced major stories.

01:32:00.140 --> 01:32:04.200

Phil: They're bringing out Skyward Sword HD to the Switch.

01:32:05.400 --> 01:32:09.420

Phil: Skyward Sword is probably one of the worst Zelda games, reportedly.

01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:17.120

Phil: It's the only Zelda game I didn't buy or haven't bought because of how horrible it apparently was.

01:32:17.120 --> 01:32:19.820

Phil: But it's coming out on the Switch, so of course now I'm going to have to buy it.

01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:22.820

Phil: They announced that Fall Guys was coming to Switch.

01:32:23.180 --> 01:32:24.220

Phil: Have you played Fall Guys?

01:32:25.220 --> 01:32:25.860

Tom: No, I haven't.

01:32:25.980 --> 01:32:30.040

Phil: It's kind of like It's a Knockout, the video game, multiplayer online.

01:32:30.820 --> 01:32:32.700

Phil: Were you around for It's a Knockout?

01:32:32.720 --> 01:32:43.100

Phil: It was kind of an Australian TV show like Wipeout where a bunch of people compete to do silly things athletically.

01:32:43.720 --> 01:32:45.660

Tom: The name certainly sounds familiar.

01:32:45.680 --> 01:32:46.300

Phil: Yep.

01:32:46.320 --> 01:32:50.060

Phil: Mario Golf is getting a sequel on the Switch called Mario Golf Super Rush.

01:32:51.480 --> 01:32:59.680

Phil: And it's by Camelot, I think, which is the people that originally made Hotshot Golf before Clap Hands.

01:33:00.360 --> 01:33:03.100

Phil: And Splatoon 3 got announced, so that's interesting.

01:33:05.700 --> 01:33:16.780

Phil: But the big news was that Stubbs the Zombie, which was an Xbox game made by one of the Halo creatives, Alex Seropian, is coming to Switch.

01:33:16.860 --> 01:33:18.200

Phil: It's not available anywhere else.

01:33:18.220 --> 01:33:19.280

Phil: You can't get it on Steam.

01:33:19.460 --> 01:33:23.640

Phil: I believe mostly because it had a soundtrack with a lot of licensed music.

01:33:24.100 --> 01:33:25.540

Phil: And I do have the soundtrack for that.

01:33:25.780 --> 01:33:28.360

Phil: I think that was a pre-order bonus when I bought it.

01:33:29.280 --> 01:33:31.240

Phil: It was where I was introduced to the Dandy Warhols.

01:33:31.700 --> 01:33:32.700

Phil: Not that that's notable.

01:33:33.960 --> 01:33:45.840

Phil: But yeah, it's a fun game that came around before the whole zombie pastiche overwhelmed video games for several years.

01:33:46.000 --> 01:33:46.600

Phil: I'm serious.

01:33:46.780 --> 01:33:51.280

Phil: I think it was like one of the first zombie games in the modern era.

01:33:51.580 --> 01:33:57.600

Phil: And it is, the trivia behind it is it uses the Halo engine.

01:33:57.720 --> 01:34:00.580

Phil: It's the only non-Halo game to use the Halo engine.

01:34:01.560 --> 01:34:02.640

Phil: Yeah, it's a fun game.

01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:05.480

Phil: And I don't think it's worth playing.

01:34:06.240 --> 01:34:09.980

Phil: But it was incredible that they announced that at the Nintendo Direct.

01:34:10.640 --> 01:34:17.200

Phil: And certainly the most notable thing to me other than the release of Splatoon 3, given how much Splatoon 2 have been playing recently.

01:34:18.560 --> 01:34:20.000

Tom: Here's a question for you.

01:34:20.020 --> 01:34:33.460

Tom: Would you say that the fascination with zombie apocalypses was probably the first big influence on pop culture that games had?

01:34:33.480 --> 01:34:37.940

Phil: Hmm, you mean besides Pac-Man fever?

01:34:38.680 --> 01:34:39.040

Tom: Yes.

01:34:41.740 --> 01:34:47.200

Tom: That was more of a influence on the health of people than pop culture.

01:34:47.620 --> 01:34:54.600

Phil: No, I don't think that Stubbs the Zombie or I don't think the zombie culture came.

01:34:54.620 --> 01:34:55.260

Phil: Possibly.

01:34:55.280 --> 01:35:01.580

Phil: The Walking Dead was a stand-alone property that probably propelled zombies into normal people's lives.

01:35:03.100 --> 01:35:06.380

Phil: So no, I'm not going to give video games credit for the zombie culture.

01:35:06.400 --> 01:35:10.480

Phil: I think video games have had an influence on culture in other ways.

01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:12.320

Phil: It's interesting to go to more.

01:35:12.340 --> 01:35:14.900

Tom: You're definitely giving The Walking Dead way too much credit.

01:35:15.860 --> 01:35:18.100

Phil: The TV show?

01:35:18.420 --> 01:35:19.140

Tom: No, the comic.

01:35:19.660 --> 01:35:21.280

Phil: The comic that led to the TV show.

01:35:21.800 --> 01:35:24.260

Phil: Yeah, well, I give the TV show all the credit.

01:35:24.980 --> 01:35:27.160

Tom: I would say you're also giving that too much credit.

01:35:27.740 --> 01:35:38.500

Tom: My argument is because zombies have been a fascination of the psyche since the Victorian era, essentially.

01:35:39.340 --> 01:35:55.260

Tom: But being a prevailing view of understanding the end times isn't really the case until video games enter mass media.

01:35:55.940 --> 01:36:00.200

Tom: And there's no greater level of...

01:36:00.220 --> 01:36:09.060

Tom: There certainly is a much greater emphasis on zombies compared to other media.

01:36:10.280 --> 01:36:13.580

Tom: So I think there is still an argument there for that being the case.

01:36:13.600 --> 01:36:15.480

Phil: Yeah, look, this came out in 2005.

01:36:16.080 --> 01:36:21.480

Phil: It really has that 1950s horror movie feel to it.

01:36:21.720 --> 01:36:23.200

Phil: And that's the time in which it set.

01:36:23.220 --> 01:36:24.220

Phil: And I take back what I said.

01:36:24.260 --> 01:36:27.140

Phil: It is worth playing because it had a tremendous sense of humor.

01:36:27.700 --> 01:36:28.560

Phil: And it was fun.

01:36:29.020 --> 01:36:33.500

Phil: And it's worth to seeing what another game made with the Halo engine can do.

01:36:33.900 --> 01:36:41.120

Phil: And certainly, even though Alex Seropian had left a bungee at that time, it was one of the massive selling points.

01:36:41.120 --> 01:36:45.540

Phil: And they let him put that on the front of the box that I'm looking at right now.

01:36:46.800 --> 01:36:50.540

Phil: It is also going to be available on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

01:36:52.140 --> 01:36:55.080

Phil: So it's something to look forward to.

01:36:55.100 --> 01:37:00.160

Phil: But this zombie game, I think, was probably one of the...

01:37:00.680 --> 01:37:06.280

Phil: You had Zombies Ate My Neighbor back on the Genesis and Super Nintendo.

01:37:06.300 --> 01:37:09.220

Phil: But this really early predates it.

01:37:09.760 --> 01:37:10.360

Phil: It's fun.

01:37:10.380 --> 01:37:11.620

Phil: It's got a fun soundtrack.

01:37:13.460 --> 01:37:14.540

Phil: And a good engine.

01:37:14.660 --> 01:37:16.140

Phil: I mean, the Halo engine is great.

01:37:16.220 --> 01:37:18.140

Phil: There's nothing wrong with it.

01:37:18.160 --> 01:37:19.600

Phil: Certainly from back in the time.

01:37:19.660 --> 01:37:24.060

Phil: So yeah, Stubbs the Zombie Rebel Without a Pulse is going to be coming to Switch.

01:37:24.080 --> 01:37:32.000

Phil: And I know that I'm going to be picking it up because everyone knows my troubles with having an operating original Xbox.

01:37:32.340 --> 01:37:34.100

Phil: So you've never played it, though?

01:37:34.820 --> 01:37:35.460

Tom: No, I haven't.

01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:40.920

Tom: And I have to point out that there are two notable things about Stubbs the Zombie.

01:37:40.940 --> 01:37:43.560

Tom: You mentioned one of them, which is the soundtrack.

01:37:44.260 --> 01:37:54.660

Tom: The other is that it received controversy for its cannibalistic content, apparently, according to Wikipedia.

01:37:54.700 --> 01:37:59.260

Phil: I remember when you chomped into people's heads, it sounded like you were chomping into an apple.

01:37:59.280 --> 01:38:00.800

Phil: And it was absolutely...

01:38:00.940 --> 01:38:01.560

Tom: Delicious?

01:38:01.580 --> 01:38:02.800

Phil: It was absolutely hilarious.

01:38:03.760 --> 01:38:05.000

Phil: It is a hilarious game.

01:38:05.040 --> 01:38:06.140

Phil: It's really well made.

01:38:06.160 --> 01:38:09.740

Phil: And I don't know what Alex Seropian went on to do.

01:38:10.200 --> 01:38:17.320

Phil: Wide Load Games, I think, made a political satire game about a chimp who was running for president.

01:38:17.340 --> 01:38:20.340

Phil: That was a joke relating to George Bush II.

01:38:21.420 --> 01:38:25.580

Phil: But other than that, I don't know that Wide Load did much after that.

01:38:25.600 --> 01:38:30.140

Tom: I asked you on air a while ago why it was.

01:38:30.680 --> 01:38:39.240

Tom: America has a desire for their presidents to be mentally impaired in one capacity or another.

01:38:40.020 --> 01:38:44.720

Tom: And I think your answer was that people in America who vote are old.

01:38:45.320 --> 01:38:50.460

Phil: No, I think my answer would be you have to be crazy to run for public office on that level.

01:38:51.300 --> 01:39:08.760

Phil: And so it's a given that if you're voting, if someone wakes up in the morning and says, I am the best qualified person to run the United States of America, they have to be mentally unstable, you know.

01:39:09.160 --> 01:39:11.360

Tom: So I think it's an aesthetic choice, though.

01:39:11.640 --> 01:39:12.200

Phil: What's that?

01:39:13.760 --> 01:39:14.760

Tom: Their persona.

01:39:15.560 --> 01:39:29.560

Tom: So by definition, they may be mentally unstable, whether they present themselves as being mentally incompetent or not, I think is a question of what persona they're trying to advertise to the public.

01:39:30.900 --> 01:39:32.340

Phil: Oh, I don't think that's true at all.

01:39:32.380 --> 01:39:36.560

Phil: I think people really believe in their presidents, be it Obama, Trump.

01:39:38.020 --> 01:39:40.660

Tom: Well, Obama is one who did not project that.

01:39:41.240 --> 01:39:41.740

Phil: Oh, really?

01:39:42.460 --> 01:39:44.840

Tom: He did not project himself as an idiot.

01:39:44.860 --> 01:39:45.440

Phil: No, no.

01:39:45.840 --> 01:39:56.720

Tom: He had to tone down the complexity of his rhetoric after becoming president, but his persona was still one of a highly competent individual.

01:39:57.720 --> 01:39:58.040

Phil: Yeah.

01:39:58.720 --> 01:40:04.240

Tom: And I would argue that his legacy has been...

01:40:04.260 --> 01:40:06.120

Tom: Sorry, not his legacy.

01:40:06.480 --> 01:40:33.980

Tom: One could argue that he has been less effective as a president as a result of that, because one advantage of presenting yourself as an idiot is that your opponents believe you're an idiot, whereas no one believed that the insane things that he was going to do in his communist, Muslim takeover of America are being done by an incompetent, bumbling fool.

01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:34.720

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

01:40:35.640 --> 01:40:36.620

Phil: Okay, well, since...

01:40:36.680 --> 01:40:41.420

Tom: So I think that was a rhetorical misstep on his part.

01:40:41.520 --> 01:40:48.260

Phil: I think since we've already roamed this far off topic, we can close the official Game Under Podcast.

01:40:48.820 --> 01:40:51.640

Phil: I've been your co-host, and my name is Phil Fogg.

01:40:51.760 --> 01:40:52.700

Phil: And his name is...

01:40:53.260 --> 01:40:54.100

Tom: I am Tom Towers.

01:40:54.120 --> 01:40:55.820

Phil: Goodbye, Copy That Floppy.

01:40:56.220 --> 01:40:57.760

Tom: This would be how it works.

01:40:58.080 --> 01:41:02.380

Tom: So it's kind of like Final Fantasy VIII or Legion of the Groon.

01:41:02.800 --> 01:41:04.180

Tom: Yes, well, I was going to say...

01:41:05.120 --> 01:41:06.100

Tom: Legion of the Groon.

01:41:06.140 --> 01:41:08.020

Tom: Both on PC and PC.

01:41:08.260 --> 01:41:11.200

Tom: You're effectively a modern doctor.

01:41:13.420 --> 01:41:14.200

Tom: And also...

01:41:14.960 --> 01:41:16.720

Phil: Uh, yes, you're quite right, I'm sorry.

01:41:18.500 --> 01:41:20.580

Tom: Repetition and lack of ideas.

01:41:21.200 --> 01:41:22.320

Tom: That's a rare glitch.

01:41:22.420 --> 01:41:24.080

Tom: I've probably had it a couple of times.

01:41:24.320 --> 01:41:26.420

Tom: Repetition and lack of ideas.

01:41:26.700 --> 01:41:27.220

Phil: I'm sorry.

01:41:28.800 --> 01:41:32.700

Tom: I think that's also a question of literacy, so to speak.

01:41:38.440 --> 01:41:41.060

Phil: And then continue with some off-topic stuff.

01:41:41.080 --> 01:41:44.460

Phil: Though you promised me that this is going to be relevant to video games.

01:41:44.480 --> 01:41:46.760

Phil: So do we want to get into Beverly D'Angelo's book?

01:41:48.380 --> 01:41:49.520

Tom: Yes, well, we do.

01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:53.200

Tom: It is very relevant to video games because one of the...

01:41:53.220 --> 01:41:55.100

Phil: And we should say it's not Beverly D'Angelo.

01:41:55.120 --> 01:42:00.500

Phil: Beverly D'Angelo, I thought when I wrote that was...

01:42:01.500 --> 01:42:07.320

Phil: I was thinking of Beverly Crusher, Wesley Crusher's mom, the doctor off Star Trek, The Next Generation.

01:42:08.780 --> 01:42:10.380

Phil: Are you familiar with this?

01:42:11.020 --> 01:42:11.240

Tom: No.

01:42:13.400 --> 01:42:16.100

Phil: Everyone else listening to this will be because they're all enormous geeks.

01:42:16.840 --> 01:42:25.160

Phil: But Beverly D'Angelo is actually the actress that played Chevy Chase's wife in the National Lampoon holiday movies.

01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:27.700

Phil: It's important to know.

01:42:27.720 --> 01:42:28.360

Tom: I've heard of her.

01:42:28.500 --> 01:42:29.560

Phil: Yeah, Beverly D'Angelo.

01:42:29.580 --> 01:42:33.480

Phil: So, the Pamela D'Angelo, is that who wrote Right Fragility?

01:42:33.580 --> 01:42:35.840

Tom: I think it's Right Fragility.

01:42:36.200 --> 01:42:37.760

Tom: I think it's Robin D'Angelo.

01:42:37.780 --> 01:42:38.420

Phil: Robin, okay.

01:42:39.200 --> 01:42:39.560

Tom: Yes.

01:42:40.360 --> 01:42:51.760

Tom: Yeah, well, due to video games being easily the most bourgeois art medium outside of art collection.

01:42:52.440 --> 01:42:53.780

Phil: Let me just say something about that.

01:42:54.100 --> 01:42:55.220

Phil: Yep.

01:42:55.240 --> 01:42:58.740

Phil: I buy The Weekend Australian.

01:42:59.060 --> 01:43:00.940

Phil: And people around me go, why do you do it?

01:43:00.960 --> 01:43:07.560

Phil: Because every time you say, I want to read it, and then you buy it, and then you just, you know, complain about it the whole time.

01:43:08.080 --> 01:43:09.700

Phil: Which I guess is why I do it.

01:43:11.220 --> 01:43:16.380

Phil: But you go into the arts section, or the pop culture section, would be the better way of saying it.

01:43:17.040 --> 01:43:18.880

Phil: There's no mention of video games in there at all.

01:43:18.900 --> 01:43:22.220

Phil: They'll talk about CDs that are coming out, or whatever they are.

01:43:22.400 --> 01:43:24.040

Phil: They'll talk about albums that are coming out.

01:43:24.060 --> 01:43:24.940

Phil: They'll talk about movies.

01:43:24.960 --> 01:43:26.300

Phil: They'll talk about books.

01:43:26.320 --> 01:43:27.320

Phil: They'll talk about theater.

01:43:27.340 --> 01:43:28.640

Phil: They'll talk about TV shows.

01:43:28.660 --> 01:43:30.020

Phil: They'll talk about what's on Netflix.

01:43:30.480 --> 01:43:35.220

Phil: There's not a single thing in the whole 40 pages about what's happening in video games.

01:43:35.780 --> 01:43:42.000

Tom: See, now this is where your answer to my question about the persona of American presidents would apply.

01:43:44.080 --> 01:43:44.540

Phil: How so?

01:43:45.180 --> 01:43:48.520

Tom: I think that only old people buy newspapers today.

01:43:49.200 --> 01:43:50.440

Tom: Or they're meant to anyway.

01:43:52.760 --> 01:43:53.420

Phil: But isn't it...

01:43:55.100 --> 01:43:55.380

Tom: Isn't...

01:43:55.880 --> 01:44:06.580

Phil: I mean, I was researching for today's show, and I was encouraged to find that one of the commercial networks here in Australia, Nine News, actually had a video game coverage.

01:44:08.060 --> 01:44:12.340

Phil: Not to the stupid extent that the enthusiast press has, and that's another topic.

01:44:13.000 --> 01:44:15.280

Phil: But they just had regular video game coverage.

01:44:15.300 --> 01:44:18.760

Phil: Hey, this is what happened at Nintendo Direct, or this is what's happening with PlayStation VR.

01:44:19.660 --> 01:44:20.600

Phil: And that was good.

01:44:20.620 --> 01:44:24.760

Phil: Obviously, there's someone there who's like, hey, this is news that's relevant to our audience.

01:44:26.080 --> 01:44:30.600

Phil: But I guess it underscores your point that the only people buying newspapers are old.

01:44:30.940 --> 01:44:46.200

Phil: But I think if you're going to be doing, if you've got a magazine that covers popular culture and you're not covering video games, that is some sort of snob, elitism or denial or ignorance on a level that I can't even comprehend.

01:44:46.220 --> 01:44:49.940

Tom: Well, that would describe the Australian quite well.

01:44:50.100 --> 01:44:50.420

Phil: Yeah.

01:44:52.640 --> 01:44:53.240

Phil: That's true.

01:44:53.400 --> 01:44:53.960

Phil: That's true.

01:44:54.440 --> 01:44:59.260

Phil: OK, so you're saying that games are the most bourgeois medium.

01:44:59.740 --> 01:45:06.640

Phil: So for our English as a second language listeners, bourgeois is basically like the old word for yuppie, isn't it?

01:45:07.820 --> 01:45:09.280

Tom: In a sense, yes.

01:45:09.520 --> 01:45:10.840

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:45:11.180 --> 01:45:32.860

Tom: But with more economic connotations, which I think is relevant to the point here, because that would be why it is the most bourgeois medium outside of art collection, due to it requiring the greatest time and money commitment compared to the other mediums.

01:45:32.880 --> 01:45:49.200

Phil: And the bourgeoisie in French history are the class that is below the elites, but they've got enough money to muck around and believe they should be joining the country clubs and taking on art because it's what rich people do, it's what the elites do.

01:45:49.220 --> 01:45:49.500

Tom: Exactly.

01:45:50.140 --> 01:46:00.660

Phil: Yeah, so they're kind of, not upper middle Bogan, but typical elites, like people who have got a...

01:46:00.800 --> 01:46:06.500

Tom: Or rather they're completely unelite, but believe they're on the cusp of becoming an elite.

01:46:06.620 --> 01:46:07.240

Phil: Exactly right.

01:46:07.260 --> 01:46:10.000

Tom: And that they are already interacting with the elites.

01:46:10.020 --> 01:46:15.380

Phil: And it's a contagion that is on all political spectrums, both left and right.

01:46:16.180 --> 01:46:25.300

Phil: Though I'd say probably more on the left these days because a university degree and education is a part of the whole bourgeois thing.

01:46:25.620 --> 01:46:29.580

Phil: And if you go to uni, you typically end up to be on the left side of the spectrum.

01:46:30.660 --> 01:46:32.040

Tom: I would certainly question that.

01:46:32.240 --> 01:46:33.180

Phil: Okay, that's fine.

01:46:34.080 --> 01:46:36.260

Tom: It depends entirely on what you mean by left though.

01:46:36.480 --> 01:46:40.860

Tom: I think what you mean here is liberal rather than left.

01:46:41.240 --> 01:46:41.940

Tom: Both in...

01:46:42.260 --> 01:46:49.140

Tom: And I would argue in the proper sense of the term, which encompasses both conservative liberalism and progressive liberalism.

01:46:49.540 --> 01:46:50.240

Phil: I agree with that.

01:46:50.360 --> 01:46:50.860

Phil: Good point.

01:46:52.220 --> 01:47:20.260

Tom: Yes, but anyway, this is relevant to games because due to the bourgeois nature of games, you saw the avant-garde academic discussion on aesthetics reach mainstream enthusiast discussion for the first time in games as opposed to in cinema or literature or whatever else.

01:47:20.280 --> 01:47:42.500

Tom: So while you obviously would have had and did have a discussion on the cutting edge feminist theories or whatever else in those other mediums, you did not come across those things among the average discussion to which everyone was welcome.

01:47:42.520 --> 01:48:03.460

Tom: So if you had people who were interested in those things outside of the medium, then they would absolutely discuss those things in the context of the medium, but you would not have those discussions occurring by people who were predominantly interested in the medium rather than those things in and of themselves.

01:48:03.480 --> 01:48:42.120

Tom: So way back in the early 2000s on GameSpot, you had things like objectification and the male gaze and representation and all of those things being discussed, not among feminist games websites or among game academics which didn't really exist then, which may also have contributed to this, but among the discussion on just random websites about games, for example, GameSpot.

01:48:43.080 --> 01:48:50.800

Tom: Not by the editorial teams there because they're obviously going to be way behind the times, but by the users of the website.

01:48:51.360 --> 01:49:01.180

Tom: Now that that has spread from games to other mediums, you've seen a pretty hysterical reaction to these sorts of things.

01:49:01.260 --> 01:49:14.720

Tom: But it is fascinating that the reaction, the most extreme version of the reaction to it, also began in the gaming communities before other communities as well.

01:49:14.780 --> 01:49:28.200

Phil: If I could discuss that, though, I will describe myself in that period in the early 2000s as being, and this may have even been an expression that was coined in video game community discussion, as a white knight.

01:49:29.580 --> 01:49:32.000

Phil: You know, and you're familiar with that term.

01:49:32.360 --> 01:49:33.300

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:49:33.540 --> 01:49:37.080

Phil: So from the time, for people who aren't, a white knight was someone who galloped in.

01:49:37.920 --> 01:49:38.840

Tom: Protected the women.

01:49:39.160 --> 01:49:44.400

Phil: Protected all of the people that needed protecting and did massive amounts of virtue signaling.

01:49:45.260 --> 01:50:02.600

Phil: But I'm going to defend myself in this instance, and that is because up until far beyond the early 2000s, any depiction of homosexuality, African Americans and women in games was reprehensibly stupid.

01:50:02.800 --> 01:50:11.080

Phil: You just have to think about the 1990 game, and this is just one example of a thousand, where you had a character called Afro Thunder.

01:50:11.460 --> 01:50:18.420

Phil: He was a black man, and he spoke in Jive and had this ridiculous Afro in the game Ready to Rumble.

01:50:19.860 --> 01:50:22.560

Phil: And you can see this in games like Vigilante 8.

01:50:22.860 --> 01:50:35.560

Phil: You can see it in all sorts of games, that if there was going to be a black person in a game, he was either a criminal, a prisoner, or had a ridiculous Afro, and was a criminal.

01:50:36.940 --> 01:50:41.620

Phil: Depictions of women, just look at Lara Croft, or Dead or Alive.

01:50:41.800 --> 01:50:47.440

Phil: You had ads on network television, oh, she kicks high.

01:50:47.480 --> 01:50:50.660

Phil: Everyone had massive boobs, it was scantily clad.

01:50:50.700 --> 01:50:53.220

Phil: If a woman was in a game, that's what was going on.

01:50:53.780 --> 01:50:54.880

Phil: Oh, you might have a doctor in a game.

01:50:54.900 --> 01:50:56.460

Tom: It was the good old days, is what you're saying.

01:50:56.480 --> 01:50:59.400

Phil: You might have a doctor in a game, but she'd be dressed in a sexy nurse outfit.

01:50:59.720 --> 01:51:00.320

Tom: Yeah.

01:51:00.380 --> 01:51:12.480

Phil: And in terms of homosexuals, if you look at games like God Hand, you'd have these clumsy, ham-fisted interpretations coming out of Japan, which was the only people that would put gay people in games.

01:51:13.040 --> 01:51:19.620

Phil: And they're in possibly camp, you know, wearing hot pants and leather chaps and all of this.

01:51:20.420 --> 01:51:30.500

Phil: So, like, I'm going to defend myself for being a white knight and virtue signaling in those days, because it was, you know, it had to be said.

01:51:30.560 --> 01:51:34.500

Phil: The video games were treating those classes and many more.

01:51:34.840 --> 01:51:36.160

Phil: Don't even talk about the disabled.

01:51:36.180 --> 01:51:37.140

Phil: They weren't in the games.

01:51:37.640 --> 01:51:38.500

Phil: And they're still not.

01:51:38.800 --> 01:51:39.960

Tom: Except in Killer 7.

01:51:42.300 --> 01:51:45.480

Phil: So, do you see where I'm saying, like...

01:51:45.680 --> 01:51:48.220

Tom: I'm not criticizing any of these positions.

01:51:48.520 --> 01:51:48.860

Phil: Yeah.

01:51:49.720 --> 01:51:59.760

Phil: Now, from today's perspective, now that I'm an old man, I've lived another 20 years and, you know, you're seeing more balance and stuff, it's kind of like, yeah, you know what?

01:52:00.060 --> 01:52:01.360

Phil: People can speak up for themselves.

01:52:01.380 --> 01:52:07.360

Phil: They don't need me to ride in on a horse to tell them this, you know, to speak up for them.

01:52:10.220 --> 01:52:16.220

Phil: But this is still pervasive in our culture, this white knight mentality and behavior.

01:52:17.920 --> 01:52:23.120

Tom: Which I think for the same reasons that you have used are equally justifiable.

01:52:23.660 --> 01:52:51.940

Tom: Because while as far as the average person is concerned, no one really has a problem with any of those things, the reactionary backlash to it is of a much more extreme degree than it was at the beginning of this and has been deliberately mobilized rhetorically and also directly by extremely reactionary elements.

01:52:52.720 --> 01:53:03.780

Tom: So I think for your own defense of yourself, you can make that same defense for people who would be doing the same thing you were doing then to people doing that today.

01:53:06.200 --> 01:53:11.920

Phil: Yeah, and another thing too from back then just to incriminate myself too.

01:53:12.400 --> 01:53:25.120

Phil: It was things like I was doing quite well financially and it's like, oh, well, I wouldn't shop at Walmart because they're exploiting poor people.

01:53:25.880 --> 01:53:29.220

Phil: And if you're dumb enough to shop at Walmart, then you just don't know better.

01:53:29.520 --> 01:53:35.580

Phil: It's like, well, first of all, like Walmart is employing tons of people that need jobs.

01:53:36.020 --> 01:53:46.020

Phil: And number two, they're providing great value, you know, through their whatever machinations they're doing, they're providing products at a lower price than anyone else.

01:53:46.040 --> 01:53:54.960

Phil: But back then, it's that whole national public radio, oh, these people don't know for themselves, you know, what's best for them.

01:53:54.960 --> 01:53:57.420

Phil: But we're here to tell them that they shouldn't shop at Walmart.

01:53:57.720 --> 01:54:04.820

Phil: It's like, I'm not here to tell someone on minimum wage that they shouldn't be shopping at the place where they can get the most value for their money, you know.

01:54:05.520 --> 01:54:08.300

Phil: And the same thing happened with, you know, voting.

01:54:08.540 --> 01:54:13.240

Phil: Oh, you know, these poor people don't know, they're voting against their own interests.

01:54:13.260 --> 01:54:15.280

Phil: They should be voting this way or that way.

01:54:15.940 --> 01:54:19.780

Phil: And I look back at that now and just go, what an idiot I was.

01:54:21.000 --> 01:54:26.060

Phil: And not because I'm politically skewed one way or the other, but ultimately people make their own decisions.

01:54:26.500 --> 01:54:38.240

Phil: And just because I think I'm better educated or better informed doesn't mean that I can arrive on the scene and tell them, well, you should be shopping at Target as opposed to Walmart.

01:54:39.020 --> 01:54:40.380

Phil: You know, it's just ridiculous.

01:54:40.400 --> 01:55:11.000

Tom: The voting, people not voting in their own interest is, I think, particularly in the context of America, where most people making that argument would be saying that about very well-off working class people who may not be so well-off now and have certainly lost a huge amount of their status, but generally would be owning some amount of property and being in a reasonably good position.

01:55:11.120 --> 01:55:35.580

Tom: And on top of that, if you do, in fact, believe that they are racist and one of their reasons for voting for a party that you believe is racist and is acting not in their direct economic interests, why would their racism not necessarily be more in their interest than their economic position?

01:55:36.300 --> 01:55:37.020

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

01:55:37.960 --> 01:55:41.100

Phil: And ultimately people are smart enough to make their own decisions, I feel.

01:55:41.560 --> 01:55:47.300

Phil: And it's arrogant to intercept or intercede on behalf of people.

01:55:47.760 --> 01:55:48.900

Phil: It's really arrogant.

01:55:48.900 --> 01:55:51.860

Phil: And this sort of thing is more and more prevalent.

01:55:52.700 --> 01:55:53.880

Phil: Maybe it's not more prevalent.

01:55:53.900 --> 01:55:59.340

Phil: Maybe it's just got a bigger voice because of social media and the fractionalisation of media.

01:56:01.860 --> 01:56:09.240

Tom: I don't know if it's more prevalent or not, but it is certainly amplified by the sensationalist nature of social media.

01:56:09.260 --> 01:56:12.780

Tom: Because again, if you look at the more...

01:56:13.320 --> 01:56:22.620

Tom: Social media gets blamed for this because it is supposedly the democratisation of public discourse when it is in fact the complete opposite of that.

01:56:22.660 --> 01:56:28.100

Tom: It is a fundamentally elitist presentation of public discourse.

01:56:28.900 --> 01:56:42.140

Tom: You compare that to something that actually is a democratically established website or a democratic appropriation of a corporate established website, for example, GameSpot.

01:56:42.340 --> 01:56:58.020

Tom: You had those discussions simultaneously with a million other discussions because the goal of the GameSpot forums was not to make money on advertiser revenue and data accumulation to sell to advertisers.

01:56:58.500 --> 01:57:37.560

Tom: If you are basing your business model on that, then you are inherently going to promote the most sensationalist and argumentative discourse that, contrary to popular belief, rather than resulting in thought, rather than being designed through thought bubbles, is designed between presenting two argumentative positions in the most ridiculous light, because that is what will annoy people and get the most engaged in, one, contributing similarly annoyed responses to it, and, two, being engaged constantly in a discussion back and forth.

01:57:37.700 --> 01:57:44.840

Phil: Yeah, and they knew that, but GameSpot's model back then was page views, because page views used to rule everything in advertising.

01:57:45.460 --> 01:57:52.060

Tom: And the target for their page views, and maybe that changed later on, but was obviously for the stuff they were publishing.

01:57:52.080 --> 01:57:54.660

Phil: Oh no, I think it was just for audience.

01:57:54.680 --> 01:57:58.240

Phil: Back then, back in the 2000s, it was all about audience size.

01:57:58.580 --> 01:58:05.240

Phil: And so forums were great for that, because you'd have people who were compulsively clicking on links, then they'd respond.

01:58:05.900 --> 01:58:13.280

Phil: So to respond, they had to click on a link and then create a page to edit, to put in their response, that counted as a page view.

01:58:15.000 --> 01:58:16.580

Phil: Then you'd post it, that's another page view.

01:58:16.600 --> 01:58:22.500

Phil: Then you'd go back into the thread, and you'd constantly be checking that thread to see if anyone responded to it.

01:58:23.320 --> 01:58:27.580

Phil: Forums were just incredible, and forums are dead today, unfortunately.

01:58:28.000 --> 01:58:35.680

Tom: That is correct, and also obviously the notability of your forum and community would also be a point of advertising.

01:58:36.360 --> 01:59:14.660

Tom: And I would argue, just to contradict what I said before, that not long or somewhat simultaneously, but I would say probably not long after that, once the GameSpot community grew massive, and it was already big when I was there, but it was mainly in the forum, when unions and blogs started to become a major part of the GameSpot website, you could see, and obviously this is not some grand business plan, but something that can easily, naturally happen by people participating in the community.

01:59:15.200 --> 02:00:00.040

Tom: Once that became the case, you also got a much more sensorial attitude from the moderators, and you had discussions playing out in a similar manner as they do on social media, which was one, great for further growing the importance and interest in the forums and the blogs, the very fact that there was censorship and there were arguments over what was acceptable to be on GameSpot and what wasn't acceptable to be on GameSpot became a huge part of the discourse of GameSpot itself, and one of the...

02:00:00.060 --> 02:00:04.260

Tom: What are the attractive things to the website where you could go and argue about these things?

02:00:04.640 --> 02:00:08.040

Phil: Oh, you know what, we've got to wrap this up here.

02:00:08.060 --> 02:00:13.280

Phil: I'll just say here now, we've just got to wrap this up in about, I've got to get out of here by seven.

02:00:14.300 --> 02:00:16.180

Phil: So, is that all right?

02:00:16.200 --> 02:00:19.260

Phil: So, I'll just do a clean break here.

02:00:21.300 --> 02:00:25.640

Phil: Look, I am completely earnest in what I'm about to say.

02:00:26.240 --> 02:00:39.180

Phil: In terms of a sociological study, I think all you need to know about sociology, you could observe on GameSpot from the time they started the forums till the time they blew up their forums.

02:00:40.260 --> 02:00:48.220

Phil: I think it was a fascinating community, and even anthropologically, it's something that you could go back and really study.

02:00:48.240 --> 02:00:59.880

Phil: I was thinking just the other day about how when GameSpot got rid of the unions, and I was like, wow, why, how, and like you were saying.

02:00:59.900 --> 02:01:17.700

Tom: You'll note that just as the feeling of security and safety has collapsed in the world, in the real world simultaneously with the loss of union power, so too did it happen at GameSpot.

02:01:18.200 --> 02:01:25.080

Phil: So these unions for people aren't connected, were basically you got to create your own mini board with your own community.

02:01:25.080 --> 02:01:30.740

Phil: So I was the director of, or the leader of the Candid Collectors Union.

02:01:31.220 --> 02:01:37.840

Phil: And in those places, like it'd be a community of anywhere from 20 to 100 people.

02:01:38.220 --> 02:01:44.480

Phil: You'd advertise, you'd get people in there, and it was your own little community board within GameSpot.

02:01:47.180 --> 02:01:48.680

Phil: And it was wonderful.

02:01:48.700 --> 02:01:50.700

Phil: It was a quote safe space.

02:01:51.380 --> 02:01:53.520

Phil: You know, it was like a cheers.

02:01:53.540 --> 02:01:55.380

Phil: You could go there, everyone knew your name.

02:01:56.600 --> 02:01:59.320

Phil: Everyone knew where you were coming from.

02:01:59.320 --> 02:02:00.880

Phil: Everyone knew who was ornery.

02:02:00.900 --> 02:02:03.200

Phil: Everyone knew who was capitulating.

02:02:03.260 --> 02:02:04.580

Phil: Everyone knew who was nice.

02:02:05.000 --> 02:02:13.180

Phil: And it was these thousands of communities that were developed that I'm assuming they got rid of because they decided, well, we can't moderate them.

02:02:16.420 --> 02:02:22.400

Phil: And after, you know, we can't handle these communities because of, you know, there could be terrorists in there.

02:02:22.420 --> 02:02:24.600

Phil: You know, I don't know why they got rid of them.

02:02:24.760 --> 02:02:30.540

Phil: Probably because they wanted to, they could see it draining away from their main forum, but I don't know why they cared because it was all still page views.

02:02:32.440 --> 02:02:33.920

Phil: But yeah, and then the blogs.

02:02:33.940 --> 02:02:43.520

Phil: And even when you were moderated, you could still go and ask the mods, go to the ask the mods forum and go, hey, you know, what happened here, what did I do?

02:02:44.080 --> 02:02:45.400

Phil: And you'd get great responses.

02:02:47.060 --> 02:02:48.640

Phil: And you know, I was in one.

02:02:48.660 --> 02:02:51.120

Tom: And you could use it as excellent advertising.

02:02:51.500 --> 02:02:53.220

Phil: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

02:02:53.560 --> 02:03:03.580

Phil: And it was funny because it was still a community of, I'm assuming hundreds of thousands of people, but even in the biggest forums, it still felt like a small community where you knew everyone.

02:03:04.780 --> 02:03:06.040

Phil: Yeah, and I missed that.

02:03:06.340 --> 02:03:10.300

Phil: I think it was a great place and it blew up for various different reasons.

02:03:12.420 --> 02:03:19.680

Phil: Gershman Gate was part of it, but I think more than that, it was, they blew it up independently and separate of that.

02:03:21.000 --> 02:03:34.640

Phil: And maybe you've got some thoughts as to why they did that or not, but I mean, they ruined the community by taking away a lot of the tools and it wasn't just the loss of personalities from the site because the personalities on the site were kind of separate from the forum culture.

02:03:35.840 --> 02:03:38.760

Tom: I think there were two potentially contributing factors there.

02:03:38.900 --> 02:03:47.420

Tom: One is just a general sense of a generally incompetent management, judging by a lot of their other decisions at the time.

02:03:47.980 --> 02:04:22.260

Tom: And also the nature of corporate pressure on games journalism and websites then is the anarchic nature of the forums and the fact that a huge amount, perhaps a majority of site traffic was to user created content with which the publishers could not engage in trying to pressure the people writing about them to give them more positive feedback may also have been a contributing factor as well.

02:04:22.520 --> 02:04:23.620

Phil: Yeah, I think so.

02:04:23.640 --> 02:04:24.680

Phil: I think so.

02:04:24.700 --> 02:04:34.080

Phil: The same culture, the same management that developed around Gershman Gate also I think contributed to the fact that you've got what?

02:04:34.080 --> 02:04:47.080

Phil: You've got these thousands of communities that like a Square Enix Union, you know, that you have no control over and they can say whatever they want, they can post whatever they want and you guys aren't in control of it.

02:04:47.540 --> 02:04:49.380

Phil: How, you know, yeah.

02:04:49.800 --> 02:04:52.900

Tom: Because there was no equivalent to that at the time.

02:04:52.920 --> 02:04:55.220

Tom: This is before Reddit was a thing.

02:04:56.620 --> 02:05:05.500

Tom: And Reddit obviously has over the years to massively moderate itself for PR issues and potential legal problems.

02:05:06.120 --> 02:05:17.080

Tom: And while it was around at the same time as 4chan and so forth, 4chan, it was a mainstream thing as opposed to a niche thing.

02:05:17.620 --> 02:05:47.760

Tom: So that would absolutely have terrified a lot of publishers, that sort of freedom of expression because it was putting, if I was to, my career as a quote, games journalist, end quote, my most viewed thing that got onto Neogaf, the Neogaf Forum, couldn't compare to the stuff that I published on my blog in terms of both views and user engagement.

02:05:48.200 --> 02:05:56.400

Tom: So they were essentially giving random people the audience that their own journalists had for the most part.

02:05:56.460 --> 02:05:57.220

Phil: Oh, definitely.

02:05:57.300 --> 02:06:09.280

Phil: It was a massive platform and all you had to do was have a good reputation in the forums or have someone who knew you, that liked you and you just click on their user link and then you go over to their blog.

02:06:09.300 --> 02:06:12.700

Phil: And yeah, it had tremendous reach, tremendous reach.

02:06:13.620 --> 02:06:16.720

Phil: Even more reach than their podcast at the time, I feel.

02:06:18.140 --> 02:06:24.020

Phil: And yeah, it led to a thousand splintered communities when they started screwing it up.

02:06:24.040 --> 02:06:26.820

Phil: And boy, did they screw it up and I don't think they've ever recovered from it.

02:06:27.080 --> 02:06:28.600

Phil: I honestly don't, but.

02:06:28.640 --> 02:06:29.620

Tom: And they certainly have it.

02:06:29.640 --> 02:06:32.560

Phil: Yeah, yeah, which is really unfortunate.

02:06:33.180 --> 02:06:42.560

Phil: I remember we, I attempted a prank or a trolling type thing where we'd encourage members of the VG Press to go over there and just start posting like crazy in their community.

02:06:43.540 --> 02:06:50.460

Phil: But their main forum, the GGD as it used to be known, general gaming discussion, was like completely dead.

02:06:50.800 --> 02:06:54.900

Phil: It was like trolling someone who wasn't there.

02:06:56.600 --> 02:06:58.460

Phil: And it was ineffective, but.

02:06:59.680 --> 02:07:01.640

Phil: Okay, so we've got to wrap this up.

02:07:01.660 --> 02:07:02.700

Phil: So I do want to give you your platform.

02:07:02.720 --> 02:07:07.280

Tom: Well, we very quickly get to how this ties into Robin D'Angelo and white fragility.

02:07:07.400 --> 02:07:08.240

Phil: Her book, yep.

02:07:08.580 --> 02:07:18.240

Tom: Yes, well, so a lot of the feminist commentary and so forth that was percolating around then, I fundamentally disagreed with.

02:07:18.260 --> 02:07:21.440

Tom: And I still fundamentally disagree with today.

02:07:21.860 --> 02:07:26.040

Tom: But I disagree with them on the basis of their arguments.

02:07:26.140 --> 02:07:31.300

Tom: So one example of that is the idea that objectification is bad.

02:07:31.540 --> 02:07:51.020

Tom: Well, I have now read Freud, so I can confirm that objectification is actually a wonderful thing that should be the goal of everyone in that it is finding an object for which you can project all of, to which you can project all of your affections.

02:07:51.080 --> 02:07:53.620

Tom: And that can be sexual affection.

02:07:53.620 --> 02:08:11.280

Tom: And unless you begin with the beginning point that sex is somehow in and of itself dangerous and bad and shameful, I do not believe you can justify that objectification is bad in any way, in and of itself.

02:08:11.480 --> 02:08:16.160

Tom: So that's one example, which I fundamentally disagree with then, and I still fundamentally disagree with.

02:08:16.500 --> 02:08:26.140

Tom: Another is the concept of the male gaze, which was also slightly less clear cut than in other artistic mediums.

02:08:26.160 --> 02:08:34.040

Tom: But again, these things are all interesting to discuss in their content.

02:08:34.220 --> 02:08:45.620

Tom: So the male gaze, for instance, that's not interesting in the sense that you should be trying to eradicate the male gaze or encourage other gazes.

02:08:46.040 --> 02:08:51.180

Tom: I have no problems with people taking those positions, but it's not an interesting idea to me.

02:08:51.200 --> 02:09:02.320

Tom: That is interesting, because if we are to take the idea of the male gaze seriously, then we surely believe that this is telling us something about men.

02:09:03.280 --> 02:09:16.120

Tom: So in this case, most people's interpretation of it would be that one, in the context of video games, there are two things which men very much valorise.

02:09:17.040 --> 02:09:22.580

Tom: One would be women and their sexuality, and the other would be violence.

02:09:22.920 --> 02:09:39.240

Tom: Now, we can then discuss whether those two things are morally good or not, but that is a separate discussion that you have to then consider on a case by case basis of the actual game.

02:09:39.560 --> 02:09:47.800

Tom: And if you use it as a blunt force analysis of something, you are erasing the content of the artwork you were looking at.

02:09:48.100 --> 02:09:50.940

Tom: And in other mediums, this can have hilarious effects.

02:09:51.200 --> 02:10:02.060

Tom: For instance, if you're using the male gaze in art analysis, what you're doing is erasing the contribution of women to a lot of visual art.

02:10:02.200 --> 02:10:15.920

Tom: So if you take a painting and you say, look at this pornographic work of this nude woman, isn't this disgusting how this male painter has exploited this woman to produce his pornography?

02:10:16.220 --> 02:10:21.100

Tom: Well, why do we assume that that is the view of the woman who is modelling for him?

02:10:21.280 --> 02:10:35.080

Tom: We're not even asking what her view on it was, and we don't even think that the fact that she is the model in what is considered a great work of art is an important part of the artwork.

02:10:35.320 --> 02:10:53.020

Tom: So we're one, totally ignoring what her views might be, and two, we're saying that in the creation of an artwork, which is involving the male painter and a female model, only the male painter's contribution to the artwork is valid and relevant.

02:10:54.360 --> 02:11:11.300

Phil: Yeah, I mean, so what I was talking about earlier is that the presumption that you're identifying people as victims when they may not be victims, and that's that arrogance that I was talking about earlier where, well, you don't know what's best for you.

02:11:12.140 --> 02:11:17.960

Phil: Obviously, if you're doing this sort of thing, you've been tricked into it or you're too dumb or I know better for you.

02:11:18.500 --> 02:11:19.800

Phil: So, yeah.

02:11:20.220 --> 02:11:22.580

Tom: Yep, so we're about to get to the white fragility part.

02:11:22.600 --> 02:11:31.200

Tom: So that was my reason for opposing those aesthetic analysis then, and those remain my position today.

02:11:31.880 --> 02:11:40.300

Tom: It very quickly became apparent to me, though, that that wasn't the reason that most people opposed those sorts of views.

02:11:40.480 --> 02:11:55.520

Tom: Now, I couldn't come up with any other explanation for their opposition because they were totally incapable of articulating why they were in opposition to those analyses of games.

02:11:56.280 --> 02:12:15.900

Tom: But I came to that conclusion because for the same reason that I, for instance, on a simple level, was opposed to people saying they wanted more female video game characters, I'm opposed to that view just because to me that is totally alien.

02:12:15.940 --> 02:12:23.220

Tom: I personally, this doesn't apply to what anyone else should want, so when I say I'm opposed to that view, I just mean I don't share that view.

02:12:23.240 --> 02:12:24.260

Tom: I don't mean I'm opposed to it.

02:12:24.640 --> 02:12:29.560

Tom: Personally, I do not relate more to male or female characters in any form of art.

02:12:30.280 --> 02:12:43.060

Tom: And I personally find that if I did, I would be dehumanizing myself and taking a sexist view of the world if I were to do that.

02:12:44.220 --> 02:12:56.720

Tom: Now, I can perfectly understand that if someone wants male or female characters, by my own position, that's irrelevant because if the character is good and they're male or female, it will be equally good to me, obviously.

02:12:57.920 --> 02:13:03.120

Tom: I have this same totally agnostic view to all content in art.

02:13:03.340 --> 02:13:20.040

Tom: So while I was pointing out the problems with those sorts of views, I was also defending games like Rape Play and a lot of other Japanese games that featured sexual violence and things like that.

02:13:20.300 --> 02:13:39.200

Tom: And all of these people who would be agreeing with me when it came to the context of the potentially sensorial direction in which these feminist positions could go on the basis of free speech, all of a sudden, no, these things should be banned.

02:13:39.880 --> 02:13:50.580

Tom: They're totally disgusting and unacceptable and you just cannot possibly conceive of a thing like that being released in the market in the West.

02:13:50.620 --> 02:13:53.800

Tom: It's totally unacceptable and disgusting.

02:13:54.680 --> 02:14:09.300

Tom: So again, I very quickly learned that these people did not really have much of an interest in free speech at all, nor do they have any justification in their logic for opposing a lot of the feminist critiques.

02:14:10.580 --> 02:14:25.220

Tom: So having now read a lot of reactionary writing as well as liberal writing, I find something like White Fragility is actually in a sense a very revelatory book.

02:14:25.760 --> 02:14:44.500

Tom: It is one, fundamentally white supremacist book, and two, a lot of what she interprets as latent racism and the easiness with which offending white people, she can offend white people, judging how she goes around bullying people, judging by her descriptions of her actions.

02:14:44.800 --> 02:14:56.960

Tom: I think that her bullying may have as much to do with the way she upsets people as with the way in which she highlights racist stuff.

02:14:57.480 --> 02:15:16.120

Tom: But I do think that particularly with the way that reactionary politics has been able to mobilize a lot of people in gaming, the concept of white fragility may actually be applicable to a lot of people on GameSpot that I was encountering.

02:15:16.300 --> 02:15:42.000

Tom: Not in the sense because a lot of this stuff was not to do with race, that came a bit later, but in the sense that they were being confronted with the fact, as you were saying, that a lot of the depictions of women in games were inherently sexist and a lot of the depictions of gay people in games whenever they rarely appeared were fundamentally homophobic.

02:15:42.340 --> 02:15:53.700

Tom: And the real problem that they had, not that they could articulate it, was that this being pointed out to them made them uncomfortable because they enjoyed those things.

02:15:54.160 --> 02:16:09.440

Tom: And having that pointed out, confronted with the fact that they enjoyed them and maybe they were enjoying them because they were homophobic and they were enjoying a bullying sort of humour.

02:16:10.180 --> 02:16:10.960

Phil: Yeah, no doubt.

02:16:13.000 --> 02:16:16.960

Tom: So I told you I would point out how it absolutely related to games.

02:16:16.980 --> 02:16:18.080

Phil: Oh, definitely.

02:16:18.100 --> 02:16:19.680

Phil: It was a good discussion.

02:16:19.860 --> 02:16:30.140

Phil: And yeah, I think that a lot of these things are absolutely appalling in terms of their racism, all in the name of anti-racism.

02:16:30.160 --> 02:16:34.580

Phil: It's just, to me, it's incredible how people don't see the transparency there.

02:16:35.140 --> 02:17:18.520

Tom: And the stupidest thing about the book, which as a supposed wonderful solution to what is supposed to be the problem with fighting systemic racism today, being that you have to have intentionality to racism, I would suggest that Robin DiAngelo goes back and reads quotes by the owners of slaves and by the politicians against desegregation and look for quotes where they're saying, yes, I'm a racist because she will find it very difficult to find quotes like that.

02:17:18.880 --> 02:17:23.780

Tom: And generally speaking, all of these people will in fact not be racist.

02:17:23.920 --> 02:17:25.220

Tom: They will not be bigoted.

02:17:25.520 --> 02:17:30.420

Tom: And the reason that they own slaves will be because they love black people.

02:17:30.920 --> 02:17:39.560

Tom: And both races deserve the opportunity to live in harmony in their own groups to their mutual benefit.

02:17:43.300 --> 02:17:45.760

Phil: Okay, so is that pretty much it?

02:17:46.540 --> 02:17:47.320

Tom: Yes, that was it.

02:17:47.540 --> 02:17:48.000

Phil: Okay.

02:17:48.500 --> 02:17:57.240

Tom: And I think that our final rant cements my political correctness or lack thereof.

02:17:57.840 --> 02:17:58.840

Tom: Or both simultaneously.

02:17:58.860 --> 02:18:00.880

Phil: I think it cements you getting kicked off Twitter.

02:18:03.120 --> 02:18:30.600

Tom: Well, the amazing thing is, and the funniest thing about my experience at Gamespot is if I were as immature as I was on Gamespot, and I don't really think I'm in any way more mature than I was on Gamespot, but if I was less of an ethical person, I learnt every single technique to become a media superstar on the internet today in the sphere of politics.

02:18:30.940 --> 02:18:50.440

Tom: I could be out there exposing the cultural Marxists or the latent unconscious biases and making an absolute fortune on social media using techniques I learnt writing a satirical blog on Gamespot.

02:18:51.200 --> 02:18:54.520

Phil: I would hope so, but I don't think your microphone would have...

02:18:55.420 --> 02:19:00.260

Phil: I don't think your message would get out there, honestly.

02:19:00.400 --> 02:19:02.040

Phil: I don't think you'd be able to get it out there.

02:19:02.800 --> 02:19:03.980

Tom: But it's not my message.

02:19:04.000 --> 02:19:05.280

Tom: I wouldn't be presenting my message.

02:19:05.300 --> 02:19:06.700

Phil: Oh no, I know that.

02:19:06.720 --> 02:19:07.480

Tom: That's the difference.

Tom: Because, see, the thing...

Tom: I, unlike many other blogs on Gamespot, I had to actually do a lot of grassroots spam-style advertising to build an audience.

Tom: The people who had my techniques of the other forms of advertising where you are presenting yourself as a martyr all the time, as long as you have the basic message there and you have the level of polish and articulation, I think I would have the skills to pull it off.

Phil: Okay, well that's the end of the podcast or the after show of the podcast.

Phil: Thank you very much for listening.

Phil: And with that, I'm going to bid you adieu.

Phil: Adieu.

Game Under Podcast 133

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction
0:00:09 Season 9 Begins
0:00:42 Podcast Talk
0:05:59 How This Show Works
Feature - Phil Upgrades His PC
0:06:32 Thanks to Tom
0:09:15 Can't Buy a New Console - Nintendo's Record Sales
0:10:09 Pokemon Funded Upgrade

First Impressions - Tom
0:11:47 Cyberpunk 2077 (PC)
0:12:36 CD Projekt Red Victim of Ransomware
0:16:00 Witcher 3 vs. Cyberpunk Release
0:23:00 Japan!
0:31:55 CD Projekt Red & Storytelling
0:34:17 Gender Studies
0:37:17 What Could They Have Done Differently?
0:43:07 Is it Good?

Final Thoughts - Tom and Phil
0:58:15 Space Court (PC)
First Impression - Tom
1:10:10 The Medium (Xbox Series, PC)

Trademark Banter
1:21:15 Tom Read 425 Books Last Year. This was his favourite.
1:27:45 Sky Children of Light Controversy

Final Thoughts - Tom and Phil
1:32:55 Coffee Talk (Windows, Mac, Switch ,PS4, XB1)
First Impression - Tom and Phil
1:52:45 Mind Scanners Beta

Trademark Banter
2:00:39 Tom Drinks Mountain Dew for the First Time

Transcript

Phil: Hello and welcome to episode 133 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:16.620

Phil: I'm your host Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by Mr.

00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:17.420

Phil: Tom Towers.

00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:18.720

Phil: Tom, welcome to the show.

00:00:19.780 --> 00:00:20.540

Tom: Thank you, Phil.

00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:25.000

Phil: First time listeners should probably know why, why listen to this show?

00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:30.120

Phil: Because it's the most engaging discussion of interesting video games on the Internet.

00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:33.600

Phil: We're the longest running podcast in Australia.

00:00:34.040 --> 00:00:36.760

Tom: Probably of any type of podcast.

00:00:37.220 --> 00:00:42.340

Phil: I think we started recording podcasts in 1995, we're up to episode 133.

00:00:42.360 --> 00:01:07.560

Tom: On the topic of Australian podcasts, I do wonder if the two of us recording a podcast is potentially a good idea or not, because the few times I listen to podcasts outside of two podcasts that I follow, I am routinely horrified and disappointed.

00:01:07.580 --> 00:01:13.240

Phil: Well, that's because the only podcast you listen to are Alex Jones and something I can't come up with.

00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:19.560

Tom: I'm sure Alex Jones' podcasts will be incredible based on his old content.

00:01:19.740 --> 00:01:38.320

Tom: I stopped being interested in Alex Jones when he pivoted away from a general sort of existential dread to a massive focus on removing Muslims from the face of the earth for a period of time.

00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:43.960

Tom: I don't know if he's still on that or not, but that's when I stopped following Alex Jones.

00:01:44.740 --> 00:01:48.280

Phil: I think since he's been deplatformed, it's more about the ads than anything else.

00:01:48.480 --> 00:02:04.260

Tom: I think it always was actually, from the very beginning, there was a lot of advertising going on, but I recommend anyone who is interested, I'm pretty sure it's on YouTube, look up Alex Jones and Noam Chomsky, because they had an interview.

00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:06.140

Phil: No, they didn't.

00:02:06.160 --> 00:02:06.940

Tom: Yes, they did.

00:02:07.020 --> 00:02:11.880

Tom: And it is as incredible as you would imagine it to be.

00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:19.820

Phil: I love when famous people get trawled because they just go onto a show thinking, oh, well, it's a show.

00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:32.280

Phil: I won't bother to research who the host is and his theories about how we're turning the frogs gay and people can give birth to cows and things like that.

00:02:32.300 --> 00:02:33.280

Phil: I'll just go on the show.

00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:37.340

Tom: Well, Noam Chomsky and Alex Jones are both in the same wheelhouse.

00:02:38.580 --> 00:02:46.340

Tom: So I think that's not that strange of a combination, particularly earlier on in Alex Jones' career.

00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:51.980

Tom: And I think Ali G also interviewed Noam Chomsky, I believe.

00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:53.400

Phil: Oh, excellent.

00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:54.980

Phil: Okay, all right.

00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.360

Phil: So I'm sorry to throw you off course there, but you were saying...

00:02:58.380 --> 00:03:04.620

Tom: Yes, I think we've mentioned the infamous Joe Rogan experience on the show before.

00:03:05.700 --> 00:03:13.580

Tom: The most popular and successful podcast ever, arguably even more successful than The Game Under Podcast.

00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:23.160

Tom: And maybe this is professional jealousy, but I have watched a few episodes of that and I fail utterly to see the appeal.

00:03:23.220 --> 00:03:40.280

Tom: And though I have never seen the word pretentious applied to really podcast in general, except perhaps The Game Under Podcast, that is the word that comes to mind when I think of the majority of mainstream popular podcasts.

00:03:41.400 --> 00:04:01.440

Tom: An Australian one is Trash Taste, which basically features a bunch of Australians immersed in Japanese art, who have the most bland and generic personalities, the most milquetoast takes on everything you can imagine.

00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:14.320

Tom: And when they manage to get even an interesting guest on the show, they bombard them with vanilla sauce, to put it another way, for want of a better word.

00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:15.620

Tom: And it is just horrific.

00:04:15.720 --> 00:04:42.260

Tom: And the contrast to that, that I probably wouldn't describe as pretentious, but the contrast to that is things like Joe Rogan, where you have someone who believes that you can find the meaning of life in MMA, and that he has had the most profound experiences on drugs and meditation and all of this sort of bullshit.

00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:48.660

Tom: Yet, when has he ever said a single profound thing on any of those subjects?

00:04:49.260 --> 00:04:55.120

Tom: As someone who has watched several episodes, I'm obviously an expert, so I would have noticed it.

00:04:56.280 --> 00:05:00.020

Phil: Well, he's on Spotify and we're on Spotify as well.

00:05:00.300 --> 00:05:01.420

Phil: We cut a deal with Spotify.

00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:02.960

Tom: We got on Spotify before he did.

00:05:02.980 --> 00:05:03.860

Tom: Before he did.

00:05:03.880 --> 00:05:06.340

Tom: We broke the ground that he now walks.

00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:08.200

Phil: We're the trailblazers.

00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:21.920

Phil: And I think the thing with Joe Rogan that's most fascinating is listening to him interview people like Henry Kissinger, Hillary Clinton, famous comedians, and see how soon he gets to him.

00:05:21.940 --> 00:05:24.220

Tom: Hillary Clinton, an incredible comedian.

00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:32.940

Tom: People say, women famously, what's the English Trotskyist troll who supported the Iraq War called again?

00:05:34.300 --> 00:05:35.220

Tom: Christopher Hitchens.

00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.760

Phil: Oh, I thought you were going to say Madeleine Albright.

00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:40.680

Tom: I don't think she's English.

00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:42.500

Phil: No, no, no, she's not English.

00:05:42.520 --> 00:05:48.280

Tom: Can you believe that Madeleine Albright wrote a book warning America about the rise of fascism?

00:05:48.840 --> 00:05:56.580

Tom: Yeah, yeah, given her background, I mean, I mean, she, I assumed it would be a manual, but apparently it is a cautionary tale.

00:05:57.400 --> 00:06:00.340

Phil: Well, she, we don't need to get into Madeleine Albright here.

00:06:00.700 --> 00:06:02.200

Phil: This is a video game podcast.

00:06:02.220 --> 00:06:09.060

Phil: So new time listeners are listening to us because you used to be a journalist and my credentials are I used to be a friend.

00:06:09.080 --> 00:06:12.260

Phil: So that's how this show works, basically.

00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:20.900

Tom: That was until I discovered a few secrets about my co-host during my journalistic work and we're now no longer friends.

00:06:21.500 --> 00:06:28.000

Phil: Well, no, but we have to keep doing the podcast because, you know, longest running game podcast in Australia.

00:06:28.020 --> 00:06:29.180

Phil: Come on, who's going to give up that?

00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:31.420

Phil: And the lucrative advertising money.

00:06:32.140 --> 00:06:44.960

Phil: Now I want to thank you because first of all, I want to thank you because you've been turning me on to some very good PC games lately that we'll be talking about in this episode.

00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:50.440

Phil: But I also want to thank you because in our last episode, you talked about VR.

00:06:51.380 --> 00:06:57.200

Phil: And that started me down the road of upgrading my PC under your direct guidance.

00:06:58.020 --> 00:07:12.200

Phil: And while it was a rough and bumpy road as all PC builds are, and I was at a certain point where it's like, you know what, I'm just going to have to take everything out, put everything back in and forget about it and sell the parts that I bought on eBay.

00:07:13.580 --> 00:07:23.720

Phil: I got to the end of it and it's been ritually rewarding having a worthy PC gaming rig again.

00:07:23.860 --> 00:07:34.520

Phil: And basically what I can describe it as, I upgraded the CPU, not to get into details, and I upgraded my video card into something else I upgraded.

00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:37.200

Tom: The RAM, I believe.

00:07:37.220 --> 00:07:38.140

Phil: The RAM, yep.

00:07:38.420 --> 00:07:52.740

Phil: There was something else, but the video card upgrade was basically, and tell me if I'm wrong, it was like the best upgrade you could get without getting into the ray tracing tier of video game card.

00:07:52.760 --> 00:07:53.300

Phil: Is that right?

00:07:53.860 --> 00:08:12.240

Tom: Well, an alternative purchase in your price range, which would have been about $50 to $100 more depending on what price you were able to get, that would have been an RTX 2060, which would be the slowest technically ray tracing cable card you could get.

00:08:12.280 --> 00:08:12.620

Phil: Right.

00:08:12.640 --> 00:08:22.080

Tom: But if you go for the card you got, a 5600 XT, then you do get a substantial improvement in the frame rate.

00:08:22.180 --> 00:08:30.740

Tom: And if you are getting an RTX 2060, you will be having difficulty using ray tracing most games anyway.

00:08:30.960 --> 00:08:32.360

Phil: Yeah, and that's what I thought.

00:08:32.380 --> 00:08:38.220

Phil: I would get the best of a category rather than getting the lowest of the next category up.

00:08:38.800 --> 00:08:39.460

Tom: That's right.

00:08:39.940 --> 00:08:52.200

Tom: And also because you only upgraded the CPU without the motherboard, and the motherboard is a very old one, you probably, it would be a waste of money getting anything faster than the 5600 XT.

00:08:52.220 --> 00:08:59.680

Phil: Yeah, and if you are going to upgrade the CPU, the motherboard and the video card, then you may as well not go ahead with an upgrade, just get a whole new PC.

00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:01.560

Phil: And start from scratch.

00:09:01.880 --> 00:09:04.680

Phil: So, this one will get me through probably another three years.

00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:08.180

Phil: It's certainly good enough to run a VR rig at this point.

00:09:08.760 --> 00:09:24.520

Phil: And so, first of all, A, I want to thank you for the games you've been sending my way in terms of bringing to my attention, and B, the PC upgrade scratched that itch that I couldn't get because I can't buy a PlayStation or an Xbox in Australia, in terms of the new consoles.

00:09:24.540 --> 00:09:25.760

Tom: I don't think you can buy them anywhere.

00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:26.740

Phil: You can't.

00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:33.400

Phil: Nintendo announced this week that they've sold 80 million switches.

00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:41.540

Phil: And meanwhile, Sony and Microsoft can't produce enough because of the semiconductor shortage.

00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:51.140

Phil: They can't produce enough product to sell, which is only pushing Nintendo sales up even higher because you go into a game shop, you want to buy the newest and greatest.

00:09:51.220 --> 00:09:53.060

Phil: Oh, you don't have PlayStation, you don't have Xbox.

00:09:53.420 --> 00:09:54.120

Phil: What's the switch?

00:09:54.660 --> 00:09:57.220

Phil: And then they get the switch, so yeah.

00:09:57.500 --> 00:10:01.520

Phil: So thank you because with the PC, it's re-engaged me with PC gaming.

00:10:02.180 --> 00:10:10.520

Phil: And at this point, and I know people are going to think, oh, I'm only saying PC is superior to console right now because I've made this investment.

00:10:10.760 --> 00:10:14.160

Phil: This was a tiny, infinitesimal investment.

00:10:14.180 --> 00:10:15.240

Phil: This was like nothing.

00:10:16.400 --> 00:10:26.880

Phil: I sold two Pokemon GBA games while I was doing the build and I had hundreds of dollars left over from that to fund this upgrade.

00:10:29.060 --> 00:10:42.100

Tom: From the fact that you had hundreds of dollars left over from selling two Pokemon GBA games, I think that should probably suggest to the listener that they were not just any Pokemon GBA games that you sold.

00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:43.040

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

00:10:43.280 --> 00:10:44.560

Phil: I did only sell two of them.

00:10:45.660 --> 00:10:50.280

Phil: And they were not sealed in box, but they were a new in box.

00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:54.020

Phil: The box still had the cellophane, all the materials that came in the box.

00:10:55.680 --> 00:10:58.880

Phil: And yeah, I mean, I've played through and beat those games.

00:10:59.860 --> 00:11:05.960

Phil: With my eyesight, the way it is as we all age, I'm not going back to play a GBA game anytime soon.

00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:11.560

Phil: It's hard enough playing on a Switch, well, if for some games, which we'll get into later.

00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:18.540

Phil: But yeah, I mean, like, I am so reinvigorated back into the PC.

00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:34.920

Phil: Given the downloads and the updates and all the troubles that I'm having with the modern consoles, I'm just really happy to be Switch PC right now, and not really eager to jump back in to PlayStation 5 or Xbox Series X.

00:11:34.940 --> 00:11:36.620

Phil: So yeah, so thank you.

00:11:36.920 --> 00:11:40.880

Phil: And as a result, we're gonna have quite a few games to talk about together today.

00:11:42.180 --> 00:11:50.300

Phil: One game I didn't jump into, that I'm not even, should I, or could I be able to play Cyber Punk 2077 on my current rig?

00:11:51.160 --> 00:12:00.260

Tom: The point of difficulty might be the CPU, but you should certainly be able to start it and give it a try.

00:12:01.460 --> 00:12:06.480

Tom: The video card is well in the range of being able to play it.

00:12:07.300 --> 00:12:16.680

Phil: And I'm just gonna reiterate, in case people didn't pick up earlier, it's a 5600 XT is what Tom selected for my video card.

00:12:16.700 --> 00:12:18.980

Phil: I would have been lost without him.

00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:34.540

Phil: But the question is, should anyone play Cyber Punk 2077, given all the reports about the bugs and the glitches, and ultimately even setting that aside, not having very good game play?

00:12:35.140 --> 00:12:39.600

Tom: And they have on top of that, breaking news from yesterday.

00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:51.300

Tom: They have been hacked by ransomware hackers, and all of their programming infrastructure is currently being held hostage.

00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:56.660

Phil: Yeah, all their source code, all their HR documents, all their legal documents.

00:12:57.180 --> 00:13:01.940

Phil: But what I missed in the story is what they're actually, what is the ransom that they're demanding?

00:13:02.900 --> 00:13:11.720

Tom: Well, they released the ransom note, and I don't think the ransom note actually mentioned how much money or whatever else they were demanding.

00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:15.420

Tom: So maybe they're waiting for CD Projekt Red to make them an offer.

00:13:19.260 --> 00:13:23.660

Phil: There was one, I'm just gonna look it up because it was one part of the ransom note that I particularly liked.

00:13:24.380 --> 00:13:28.960

Phil: Yeah, I mean, this happens every day to a whole bunch of other businesses.

00:13:29.460 --> 00:13:34.100

Phil: But this one is unusual because usually it's kept private.

00:13:37.940 --> 00:13:41.260

Phil: And also the ransom note isn't just a generic ransom note.

00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:45.740

Phil: They're calling out the fact that they're gonna sell the source code and all this sort of thing.

00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:50.980

Tom: Given that we're both fans of Alex Jones and CD Projekt.

00:13:51.640 --> 00:13:53.800

Tom: Yeah, massive fans of Alex Jones.

00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:57.740

Tom: He is our number one source of political news.

00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:06.000

Tom: I mean, people may wonder why we were briefly on hiatus.

00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:12.240

Tom: One of us may or may not have returned to America to carry out a little political activism.

00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:14.460

Tom: But I won't go into details.

00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.300

Phil: Look man, I was wearing a mask.

00:14:16.880 --> 00:14:18.080

Phil: Nothing can be proved.

00:14:18.740 --> 00:14:28.040

Tom: Yeah, in the mode of Alex Jones, CD Projekt Red were the absolute masters of PR campaigns.

00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:52.860

Tom: When Witcher 3 was released, it was a buggy and to quite a large degree, a broken mess, including in terms of gameplay in many people's minds, to the point where they totally redid the movement and control system, massively altering how combat functioned, and a variety of things like that.

00:14:53.020 --> 00:15:05.840

Tom: And because they promised that they were gonna fix all this and had a really good PR team, the gaming community just ate it up and loved it.

00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:11.680

Tom: The CD, the Cyber Punk 2077 release has been the absolute opposite of that.

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.380

Tom: And they have handled everything in the worst manner possible.

00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:31.720

Tom: Could this be a final Hail Mary in their failed PR campaign to restore their reputation after their promises to fix Cyber Punk 2077 have obviously failed?

00:15:32.040 --> 00:15:32.800

Phil: Oh, definitely.

00:15:32.800 --> 00:15:39.400

Phil: I mean, they've taken this ransom and said, okay, how can we maximize the impact, which is why they released it.

00:15:40.180 --> 00:15:46.020

Phil: I'm saying, did they potentially hack themselves?

00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:49.480

Phil: I don't think that they hacked themselves.

00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:52.940

Phil: I think they're just opportunistic and taking advantage of it.

00:15:53.260 --> 00:15:59.920

Phil: Now, having said that, Capcom, same thing happened to them in December of last year.

00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:05.600

Phil: I mean, this is very recent, so it'd be the exact same thing, but they didn't release the broken English note.

00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:10.580

Phil: So the fact that they released it, I think they're just using this like COVID.

00:16:11.160 --> 00:16:36.500

Phil: Well, they're rather, they're using this as they should have used COVID to release Cyber Punk 2077 only as a PC game and then roll it out to the consoles slowly, because had it been released as a PC game, from all reports, if a PC is capable of running it and people who played it on Google Stadia, it worked well.

00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:51.320

Tom: Well, we should add there, because a lot of people who defend the game have responded to criticism of the optimization by claiming that people are trying to run it on obsolete hardware and hardware that isn't powerful enough to run it properly.

00:16:51.760 --> 00:17:06.280

Tom: But when you look at the system requirements, due to the poor optimization, people with hardware far and above what is actually asked of them have run into difficulties running the game as well.

00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:11.880

Tom: So it is certainly very poorly optimized as a game.

00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:31.020

Tom: That being said, my own experience with Cyber Punk 2077, outside of some at times very frustrating glitches and a lack of hilarious glitches has technically been not too bad at all.

00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:43.900

Tom: There are certain areas within the city where there are totally inexplicable frame rate drops from 50 to 60 FPS to 20 that occur.

00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:55.940

Tom: I can only assume it's when they are spawning NPCs off screen to walk into the scene that you can't see or something like that.

00:17:56.820 --> 00:18:04.380

Tom: But beyond that, it has actually run pretty well when you consider how technically advanced it is.

00:18:04.580 --> 00:18:13.740

Tom: And it is probably the best use of ray tracing since Metro Exodus, I would say.

00:18:13.760 --> 00:18:31.580

Tom: The difference in the visuals between having ray tracing on and off, it totally changes the atmosphere of the game because it is this really oversaturated, colourful, 80s-inspired look.

00:18:32.260 --> 00:18:52.340

Tom: And when you have the ray tracing off without the more detailed, shiny lights and the more realistic reflections, you end up with something that looks really, it still looks really good, but it looks really cartoony and a little bit flat as well.

00:18:52.360 --> 00:19:06.840

Tom: Whereas if you have the ray tracing on, it really nails the 80s aesthetic that they're going for without it becoming a cartoony and flat, which it was at risk of.

00:19:07.260 --> 00:19:34.860

Tom: And a lot of games that do a vibrant colour scheme in the past, for instance, Uncharted 4 and 3, scenes in both of those games, when you are in the most colourful areas, because the lighting is kind of crap, and there's no reflections adding two different gradients to the colour, it all ends up being really flat and a little bit bland.

00:19:35.120 --> 00:19:43.440

Tom: The colour palette in 2077 is on another level to Naughty Dog's art direction, so even when it is flat, it still looks really good.

00:19:43.940 --> 00:19:56.980

Tom: But without the ray tracing, it is a massive downgrade, and arguably affects the atmosphere to a greater level than even in Metro Exodus.

00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:14.780

Tom: Because in Metro Exodus, the effect that it has to a degree where it totally changes the feeling of the game isn't throughout the entirety of the game, it's through certain sections, whereas in Cyber Punk 2077, the entirety of the game is affected by this.

00:20:15.320 --> 00:20:17.700

Phil: Were you a fan of Witcher 3?

00:20:19.340 --> 00:20:31.160

Tom: Yes, I was, but not for the same reasons or to the same degree as most fans of The Witcher 3.

00:20:31.300 --> 00:20:34.260

Tom: I hated, absolutely hated the combat.

00:20:34.340 --> 00:20:43.320

Tom: I thought it was just atrocious and boring, which you're apparently not meant to use when criticizing a game.

00:20:43.340 --> 00:20:48.940

Tom: But I did write a several thousand word review of it, so you can go there if you want any details.

00:20:49.560 --> 00:21:03.580

Tom: The thing I loved about The Witcher 3 was the setting, the characters and some elements of the storytelling put it on another level to most fantasy, not just in games.

00:21:04.300 --> 00:21:20.120

Tom: You take, for example, some of the earlier quests, where they really made use of European folklore, integrating it into the quests in a way that you don't see in most fantasy.

00:21:20.740 --> 00:21:39.940

Tom: Even though fantasy will make references to those sorts of things, they're usually not really written into the story, and you just end up with something that is an atrocious copy of Lord of the Rings, which again, Lord of the Rings is very much written from its inspirations.

00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:46.620

Tom: And Cyber Punk 2077, I think, is a disappointment there.

00:21:46.960 --> 00:22:03.000

Tom: Now, obviously, they're not drawing on folklore here, but on the genre of cyberpunk, which is, I do have to say, 99% of cyberpunk, including Neuromancy, is complete and utter shit.

00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:18.340

Tom: It is essentially fan fiction of beat novels with a modern technological aesthetic, because a lot of beat writing is very much technological driven.

00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:43.100

Tom: So first of all, you don't want to be writing beat fan fiction, because there's two good beat writers, one of whom was a poet, who himself was basically, to some degree, William Blake fan fiction, and the other was one of the great geniuses of American literature and the modern novel full stop.

00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:47.360

Tom: And everything else in beat canon is shit.

00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:55.500

Tom: So when you're copying shit that was only done well by a genius, the result is probably not going to be very good.

00:22:56.180 --> 00:22:58.380

Tom: And the result isn't very good for the most part.

00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:15.780

Tom: But the one interesting thing about Cyber Punk is the commentary on the era in which it was written and the themes that it contains, which have been reduced in our modern conception of Cyber Punk to an aesthetic.

00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:27.680

Tom: So, for example, in Cyber Punk, there's a real interest and obsession with Middle Eastern culture and Japanese culture.

00:23:27.820 --> 00:23:34.720

Tom: And the Middle Eastern part of it has been totally excised from modern Cyber Punk for obvious reasons.

00:23:35.820 --> 00:23:37.140

Tom: The Japanese remains.

00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:55.140

Tom: But the reason that there was an obsession with Japan in the Cyber Punk is because at the time in America, there was a fear that Japan, with their booming economy, was gonna take over the world in the same way there's a fear of China doing so today.

00:23:55.420 --> 00:23:57.080

Phil: I was gonna say exactly that.

00:23:57.100 --> 00:23:58.320

Phil: And boom is the right word.

00:23:58.340 --> 00:24:12.380

Phil: I mean, the thought of Japan being influential to that extent or overpowering in that extent is a boomer mentality, right?

00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:14.960

Phil: It's something that was coming out of the 90s.

00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:17.120

Phil: Like, oh yeah, we gotta be concerned about Japan.

00:24:17.580 --> 00:24:21.760

Phil: And so when a movie like, god, Harrison Ford movie.

00:24:22.320 --> 00:24:25.080

Tom: Star Wars, Indiana Jones.

00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:27.360

Tom: Has he been in any other films?

00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:29.060

Phil: Blade Runner.

00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:30.820

Tom: Let's not talk about that.

00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:42.400

Phil: So when you watch Blade Runner, for example, there's a lot of Japanese neon signs and Japanese influence, and that's obviously what Cyber Punk is tapping into as well.

00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:55.680

Tom: And just on that point, we should add that it's not just Cyber Punk today that it excises the themes of things, it's also the mainstream adaptions of Cyber Punk as well.

00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:05.000

Tom: Case in point, Blade Runner, which totally obliterates the Christian themes in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.

00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:15.880

Phil: Yeah, and the other good thing about, I mean, in terms of Cyber Punk, it's people looking futurists, looking into the future going, okay, what's gonna win out?

00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:19.980

Phil: So it's a very boom mentality to include any Japanese influence in that.

00:25:20.020 --> 00:25:25.720

Phil: Like, oh yeah, obviously they were gonna win because they own Toyota and look at their manufacturing systems.

00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:33.940

Phil: And the other one, which I think is right, or at least better, is the Middle East.

00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:47.660

Phil: Because you look at something that would scare a boomer or a Western person of that age, and you go, well, obviously Islam is going to eventually overtake Christianity as a predominant religion.

00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:54.660

Phil: And in our own regions, you look at Indonesia, for example, and you go, well, that's obviously the way it's gonna go.

00:25:54.680 --> 00:26:02.200

Tom: Yep, and religious, as we can see even in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:02.960

Tom: And Philip K.

00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:08.120

Tom: Dick in general, this being, that being a progenitor to Cyber Punk.

00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:16.580

Tom: From the 70s to the 80s, there's a real existential dread in American fiction about religion.

00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:19.440

Tom: And in Philip K.

00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:27.900

Tom: Dick, that's through the lens of Christianity and also Eastern religions, not so much the Middle East.

00:26:28.080 --> 00:26:36.320

Tom: Whereas when you get to Cyber Punk, due to the geopolitical maneuverings at the time, that moves on to Islam.

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:42.720

Tom: But today, in Cyber Punk, that Islamic theme has disappeared.

00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:43.820

Phil: Which is Australia.

00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:58.500

Tom: Yep, except in post-Cyber Punk stuff like Snow Crash, and then it's more so in the context of anthropology and linguistics, as opposed to a religious and cultural thing.

00:26:58.780 --> 00:27:11.480

Tom: But what I'm getting at to eventually is, sadly, Cyber Punk 2077 does not live up to the credentials of Witcher 3, because none of that is in Cyber Punk 2077.

00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:18.220

Tom: The basic plot, sorry, the references to Japan are purely aesthetic.

00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:37.120

Tom: It's just merely that naturally, through the exchange of culture, Japanese influence has grown in America, and everything's hunky-dory, and no one really has a problem with that, nor is it necessarily something that is either exciting or dangerous.

00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:50.640

Tom: It just is, and it has no bearing on politics or economics or anything like that, or even culture really, because it's all basically just the adoption of Japanese aesthetics.

00:27:52.080 --> 00:28:11.020

Tom: Beyond that, maybe in some of the corporate culture, if it's involving Japanese things, Japanese people and companies, there will be some Japanese honor system going on and stuff like that, but it's really basic and just an aesthetic effect.

00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:17.220

Tom: And that's true for basically all the Cyberpunk themes.

00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:26.660

Tom: It's not even really a Cyberpunk story, because the plot is basically, it begins kind of like a heist story.

00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:28.480

Tom: I mean, it does begin as a heist story.

00:28:28.940 --> 00:28:40.220

Tom: And the main plot line, before it goes off in a slightly different direction, is basically a rags to riches story of someone.

00:28:40.580 --> 00:28:45.260

Tom: And you can choose three different origin stories, but they all basically amount to a rags to riches story.

00:28:45.840 --> 00:28:55.180

Tom: And the direction it goes in, there is corporate intrigue, as you would expect in a cyberpunk story, but without any real meaning.

00:28:55.180 --> 00:29:04.160

Tom: I mean, the city is supposedly massively corporate influence, but there are mayoral elections going on.

00:29:04.520 --> 00:29:18.040

Tom: There's a police force that they say is corporate, but jokes aside regarding the AI of the police, appears to be related to the government and a combination of the two.

00:29:18.260 --> 00:29:21.620

Tom: So maybe it's just got privatized things in it.

00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:34.680

Tom: And none of this is really either leverages commentary on either the world or the direction that society might be going beyond a basic run of the mill.

00:29:35.560 --> 00:29:37.660

Tom: Look at the corporatization of everything.

00:29:38.060 --> 00:29:42.560

Tom: Here's a dystopia in which actually every the city is pretty nice.

00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:48.240

Tom: There are a few homeless people here and there, but for the most part, it's a pretty cool place to be.

00:29:48.700 --> 00:29:56.620

Tom: And anyone through crime or corporatism or whatever else can fulfill a rags to riches story.

00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:21.900

Tom: As I said, the story does go in a more interesting direction and politics kind of is brought into it, but not really because the character played by Keanu Reeves, and if this is a commentary on the anodyne nature of the majority of punk, I have to give them credit for that.

00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:23.100

Phil: What did you just say?

00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:55.620

Tom: I said, well, I have to finish this statement, but if Keanu Reeves' character is a commentary on the generally anodyne nature of punk, I do have to give CD Projekt Red credit for this because he is basically introduced as a maverick rockerboy, I think they're called, but basically an edgy, non-conforming rock star who is also a terrorist who is fighting against corporate power.

00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:11.380

Tom: But it's actually a revenge story, and he has a grudge, and he is basically just either on a revenge trip or a political nihilist in the misuse of the term as it is now used.

00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:37.800

Tom: So again, that's avoiding any sort of political commentary because even when you've got this supposedly dystopic vision of the future that is corporatism run wild to an unacceptable degree, you don't have some sort of ideologically driven terrorist attack on it that may or may not have a reasonable position to take a la Final Fantasy VII.

00:31:38.020 --> 00:31:43.620

Tom: No, he just wants to take revenge against people who have fucked him over or likes chaos.

00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:54.660

Phil: We're talking about the 2020 release of Cyber Punk 2077, which is available on Stadia, PlayStation 4, 5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X and Windows.

00:31:56.140 --> 00:31:58.480

Phil: CD Projekt Red is a Polish company.

00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:00.000

Phil: Yes, they are.

00:32:00.040 --> 00:32:05.440

Phil: They don't have strong English skills, as you can see from the Noclip documentary, which I will...

00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:08.160

Tom: I mean, you can tell from the ransomware note they wrote.

00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:09.320

Tom: And the English draw for it.

00:32:09.340 --> 00:32:11.380

Phil: That's right.

00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:13.920

Phil: Look, you know, since 2000...

00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:16.080

Phil: CD Projekt Red, I mean, we all think they're cool.

00:32:16.100 --> 00:32:25.760

Phil: They started Good Old Games, which is, you know, basically intellectual property, free downloading of old games.

00:32:25.780 --> 00:32:29.300

Phil: And, you know, they make old games work through, you know, various engines.

00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:35.820

Phil: And, you know, they have a good store if you want to play old games and own it.

00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:37.680

Tom: And new games as well.

00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:39.140

Phil: And new games as well, obviously.

00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:39.900

Phil: Yes, I'm sorry.

00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:50.120

Tom: If you can get a game or if I can get a game at a similar price on GOG or Steam, I would usually go for GOG due to the lack of DRM.

00:32:50.380 --> 00:32:50.860

Phil: Absolutely.

00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.280

Phil: That's the initialism I was thinking of.

00:32:54.260 --> 00:32:58.380

Phil: But honestly, you know, as a game maker, all I've ever done is The Witcher.

00:32:58.840 --> 00:33:05.320

Phil: From 2007 through till today, Cyberpunk was the first game that they've made outside of The Witcher-iverse.

00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:06.920

Phil: Yes, that's what I said.

00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:20.420

Phil: And so to a certain degree, like, because they're interpreting everything through a broken English kind of world, The Witcher is a Polish intellectual property.

00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:22.180

Phil: So of course they're going to nail it, you know.

00:33:22.660 --> 00:33:44.580

Phil: But I would never presume, even though we live in a monoculture world where you're exposed to all sorts of, you know, Western influences, I would never presume to go into and make a Polish game or write a Polish book as a Westerner who doesn't speak Polish and think I'm going to have any success in terms of, you know, storytelling.

00:33:45.260 --> 00:33:57.720

Tom: I understand your point, but as I said, use of folklore in fantasy in an integrated manner is rare full stop.

00:33:57.840 --> 00:34:07.160

Tom: So if you want to give them the credit for doing that as artists, then that's the standard you should hold them to in whatever subject matter they use.

00:34:07.220 --> 00:34:10.200

Phil: Oh, hey, trust me, I'm not making an excuse for them.

00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:12.620

Phil: I'm arguing against their hubris.

00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:13.860

Phil: Yep.

00:34:14.180 --> 00:34:16.780

Phil: So, yeah, we're on the same page there.

00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:26.460

Tom: And we do have to get to one last defining characteristic of Cyber Punk that they totally dropped the ball on.

00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:36.680

Tom: And it's become, it was anyway on release for a long time, a massive joke among the Cyber Punk fandom.

00:34:37.940 --> 00:35:15.420

Tom: Because whenever anyone would complain about the lack of vagina models available to your character at the start of the game, or that there were only three different penis types and various things like that, and that when you get naked in the game, you're naked in the inventory screen, but without a mod in the actual game world, you're wearing underpants, and that there are a total of only four prostitutes in the entirety of the game, and only, I think, four people who you can romance and engage in sexual intercourse with.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:18.900

Tom: The response to this was, well, this is just insane.

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:20.220

Tom: This isn't pornography.

00:35:20.380 --> 00:35:22.040

Tom: This is a cyberpunk game.

00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:24.220

Tom: Well, you fucking dimwit!

00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.460

Tom: Have you read a fucking cyberpunk novel?

00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:31.620

Tom: That's one of the defining characteristics of cyberpunk, is two things.

00:35:32.720 --> 00:35:34.520

Tom: One, transhumanism.

00:35:34.660 --> 00:35:41.120

Tom: And the term trans, as in transsexual, is related to transhumanism.

00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:45.500

Tom: So first of all, that should be a massive thing in character creation.

00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:53.240

Tom: And you should also be able to alter yourself after you've created your character to ridiculous degrees, which you can't do.

00:35:53.620 --> 00:36:12.120

Tom: And two, there should be a lot of fucking nudity and a lot of fucking fucking throughout the game because one of the defining differences between edgy science fiction that may be otherwise similar to cyberpunk science fiction is gratuitous sex.

00:36:13.580 --> 00:36:15.620

Tom: So it's just ridiculous.

00:36:15.640 --> 00:36:25.560

Tom: And people will come in claiming to be cyberpunk connoisseurs, whinging about people, wondering why this lacks this sort of stuff.

00:36:26.140 --> 00:36:39.000

Phil: Look, punk is punk, and ultimately this is a commercial product, but gratuitous sex and nudity is a component of any sort of punk, steampunk, punk, cyberpunk, you know, whatever you want to call it, donut punk.

00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:49.020

Tom: And when you are of the anodyne variety who does not contain any sort of gratuitous sex, you will then put it in the name of your band to try and get away with it, e.g.

00:36:49.040 --> 00:36:49.940

Tom: the Sex Pistols.

00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:51.860

Phil: Yeah, there you go, or Dr.

00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:52.940

Phil: Zog's Sex Wax.

00:36:53.620 --> 00:36:55.220

Phil: I don't even know if they have that in other countries.

00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:13.300

Phil: Now, so, but ultimately, I think this game gets the most criticism because all they've ever done is The Witcher, and people are going into this thinking that this is going to be, you know, Cyber Witcher, and it's not.

00:37:14.740 --> 00:37:16.500

Phil: What could they have done differently?

00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:25.180

Tom: I think the main reason it has got so much criticism is because of how poorly they have handled it.

00:37:25.600 --> 00:37:47.120

Tom: Because this, while very amplified, because there was massive expectation amplified by how well they handled all the problems with The Witcher 3, a lot of the stuff that has gone wrong on Cyber Punk 2077 went wrong on The Witcher 3.

00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:53.880

Tom: And you can argue that it's gone worse to a high degree than it did in The Witcher 3.

00:37:54.060 --> 00:38:01.920

Tom: And outside of, in terms of gameplay, I don't think that's really true.

00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:09.520

Tom: But in terms of glitches and delays and that sort of thing, yes, Cyber Punk 2077 is probably a little bit worse.

00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:21.780

Tom: But the biggest difference is their PR team was absolutely incredible during the release and the following months and months of issues of The Witcher 3.

00:38:22.060 --> 00:38:25.640

Tom: Here, it has been a total and utter disaster.

00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:29.180

Tom: They said they were going to not do crunch.

00:38:30.040 --> 00:38:30.440

Phil: Twice.

00:38:30.460 --> 00:38:32.020

Tom: Low and behold, yet twice.

00:38:32.900 --> 00:38:56.400

Tom: Low and behold, when people started complaining about it taking so long, their response wasn't, we believe in creating art, and we are going to stick to one, respecting our workers and not forcing them to do crunch, which may delay things, but we have committed to this, and two, releasing the best possible vision we can.

00:38:56.640 --> 00:39:07.680

Tom: Instead, no, they gave up on not doing crunch and announced another release date, and they did this several times.

00:39:08.220 --> 00:39:21.220

Tom: Then they engaged in the sort of review bullshit that people will expect from other publishers, where you could only review the PC version and not the totally broken console versions.

00:39:23.620 --> 00:39:36.820

Tom: Then, once that has occurred, all they can come up with is announcing a generic refund statement for the console version, sorry, just a generic statement.

00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:51.880

Tom: And given the anger and how overly invested in the whole process a lot of fans were, people were assuming that this applied to PC as well in as easy a manner.

00:39:52.660 --> 00:39:54.200

Phil: You mean PlayStation 4?

00:39:55.940 --> 00:39:57.460

Tom: They announced a refund.

00:39:57.740 --> 00:40:05.020

Tom: They didn't go into details, but it was obviously aimed predominantly at PS4 and Xbox One versions.

00:40:05.740 --> 00:40:15.920

Tom: So that created confusion as to how that was working because the PlayStation and Xbox version of the games were essentially broken for many people.

00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:22.620

Tom: So it wasn't like it was just a glitchy game as the PC version was.

00:40:23.540 --> 00:40:54.740

Tom: So that then created confusion, and since then, they've been overhyping their patches, which are all just basic fixes of glitches, as if they're going to make pretty big changes and fixes to the games, which what they're saying isn't technically untrue, but given the hysterical nature of the community, they obviously need to be using really clear language about what they're doing, and they are not doing that at all.

00:40:56.220 --> 00:41:14.820

Phil: And the cherry on the top was when they threw their QA people, which are probably the lowest paid people in their whole system under the bus, going, well, you know, they didn't check it properly, we're the creatives up at the top of the pile, we assume these people down there are going to tell us when our game is shit.

00:41:15.540 --> 00:41:18.120

Phil: So yeah, it's been completely mismanaged.

00:41:18.220 --> 00:41:25.440

Phil: As you said, Witcher 3 and their technical problems, number one, they released it on PC first, didn't release it on the consoles.

00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:30.400

Phil: And so PC guys and gals, we're all experimenters.

00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:34.300

Phil: We expect a little bit of this and that to and fro.

00:41:34.660 --> 00:41:36.040

Phil: We've all got different systems.

00:41:36.060 --> 00:41:37.720

Phil: Of course, it's not going to run perfectly.

00:41:38.620 --> 00:41:43.880

Phil: Work through your problems, and then after about a year and a half to two, then you release it on a console.

00:41:44.080 --> 00:41:55.960

Phil: I mean, hell, Witcher 3 came to Switch last year, you know, and this time they just went with selling it through, you know, to every format.

00:41:55.980 --> 00:42:01.780

Phil: And that's the hubris that got them into trouble, thinking that, oh, well, we got away with this before.

00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:02.580

Phil: We can do it again.

00:42:02.600 --> 00:42:04.380

Phil: We're a bigger, more powerful company now.

00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:14.340

Phil: They shouldn't have released it for PlayStation 4, I'm sorry, for PlayStation 5 and the new Xbox, period, because those people just invested $800.

00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.340

Tom: I think those versions haven't been released yet.

00:42:16.700 --> 00:42:19.300

Phil: Well, that's it, but you can, yeah, you're right.

00:42:19.340 --> 00:42:25.500

Phil: I mean, you can play the backward compatible versions on your new system, which I think just increased the anger more.

00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:31.640

Phil: That's not their fault, but what amplified it was the fact that they released a broken game for consoles.

00:42:32.180 --> 00:42:37.480

Phil: Then people are paying it for the, you know, playing these on their brand new consoles and getting angry by it.

00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:43.980

Phil: Thinking, well, if my new console that I spent $700 on isn't as good as a PC, then what am I doing?

00:42:44.520 --> 00:42:48.740

Phil: You know, there's lots of factors here, but the bottom line is they've screwed up.

00:42:49.260 --> 00:42:50.720

Phil: They don't deserve any breaks.

00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:56.880

Phil: This was completely foreseeable given it was their first venture away from The Witcher.

00:42:57.580 --> 00:43:03.600

Phil: Ultimately, from what I'm hearing you say, this isn't a very good game at all at the end of it anyway.

00:43:03.980 --> 00:43:06.480

Phil: But worth playing, but just not a good game.

00:43:07.520 --> 00:43:21.080

Tom: Yes, this is where things get interesting though, because if we go into it, expecting this to be using a punk analysis, the Dead Kennedys, we're going to be tremendously disappointed.

00:43:21.640 --> 00:43:45.220

Tom: If we go into it expecting it to be Green Day, then I think as far as the characters and the narrative are concerned, particularly a la The Witcher 3, in the side quest, I think there is a lot to enjoy, and it ends up being very engrossing.

00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:50.940

Tom: The way they handle the main character is really impressive.

00:43:51.640 --> 00:44:17.860

Tom: They manage to give you enough customization options, and I think that you being able to choose what the origin story, and while it only affects the one or two hour introduction to the game, that's enough to make you more interested in the character as simultaneously an avatar for you that you've created, as well as a character in the world.

00:44:19.060 --> 00:44:34.340

Tom: The Keanu Reeves character is as wooden as every other Keanu Reeves performance ever, but in a good way, as in many of his performances, and as a comical foil for the protagonist, it works really well.

00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:55.700

Tom: And the enjoyment of going around the world, like in The Witcher 3, and encountering eccentric and silly characters that take you on an amusing and sometimes almost moving short story is there to the same degree as it is in The Witcher 3.

00:44:56.260 --> 00:45:16.060

Tom: And in the background, there is the main quest that, like in The Witcher 3, as opposed to the vastly superior Final DLC where they did a main narrative superbly, the main narrative is there just to point you in a direction basically.

00:45:16.720 --> 00:45:36.480

Tom: And that actually works well in a game like Cyber Punk 2077 or The Witcher 3, because it then does not get in the way of you going through the side quests and being properly introduced to the characters, including characters that are related to the main story.

00:45:36.940 --> 00:45:47.860

Tom: And the romance stories in it so far are handled really well and better than any romance stories in other games that I've played.

00:45:47.880 --> 00:46:00.040

Tom: An example of this, which a lot of people are annoyed about, but I think is absolutely hilarious, is the people you're trying to romance are not all pansexual.

00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:09.000

Tom: So if you're playing as a male V, then characters who are not interested in men aren't going to be interested in you.

00:46:09.160 --> 00:46:18.280

Tom: But you can still play through the quest trying to seduce them and be rejected in a number of hilarious ways.

00:46:18.300 --> 00:46:18.920

Tom: It is brilliant.

00:46:18.940 --> 00:46:19.780

Phil: That's very Polish.

00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:21.440

Phil: That's very Eastern European.

00:46:22.080 --> 00:46:22.480

Phil: Yes.

00:46:23.540 --> 00:46:33.740

Phil: I've got some stories to tell you off the show with my interactions with a Russian woman a few months ago who had some insights on this very topic.

00:46:36.300 --> 00:46:43.980

Tom: So that that is to me the biggest appeal of The Witcher 3 is there and as good as The Witcher 3.

00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:53.100

Tom: And this is going to be a very controversial statement, but I find, and again, a lot of this is due to the input you have in creating the character.

00:46:54.640 --> 00:47:16.040

Tom: V, the protagonist, to be much more compelling and interesting than Geralt, or however it's pronounced, because he was basically a, if we're being honest, really generic, almost Conan-esque, smart-mouthed action hero sort of character.

00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:18.220

Tom: In the romances, he wasn't.

00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:26.340

Tom: And in a couple of the side quests, there were really interesting frailties to the character and a more human side.

00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:36.520

Tom: But through his interactions in the majority of the game, no, he was just cracking jokes and being a smart-ass.

00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:52.900

Tom: The protagonist in this, there is witty banter between Yu and Keanu Reeves' character, but her interactions with most of the world or his, depending on how you're playing it, are much more nuanced the entire time.

00:47:53.200 --> 00:47:59.080

Tom: And it's like the interesting part of Geralt all the time, as opposed to just in certain sections.

00:48:00.940 --> 00:48:12.200

Tom: And so far for me, there's a much higher consistency in the quality of the narrative, narratives of the PsyQuest as well, compared to The Witcher 3.

00:48:12.520 --> 00:48:14.860

Tom: So as long as you don't go...

00:48:15.780 --> 00:49:03.380

Tom: Once you get over the fact that they haven't done the interesting thing of, despite it being a blockbuster massive thing, doing something interesting with their subject matter, once you get over the fact they haven't done that, like they did in The Witcher 3, in many ways, narratively, it is better than The Witcher 3, and aesthetically, other than some ridiculously simplistic traffic and NPC behaviour, the world is a really rich and enjoyable to drive around and explore Cyberpunk setting as well, in the same way that The Witcher 3 world was enjoyable just to wander around in.

00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:16.980

Phil: We've got a billion other games that we both thoroughly enjoyed, I believe, to talk about beyond Cyberpunk, but I have two questions for you, and then you can give us our closing thoughts.

00:49:17.640 --> 00:49:33.440

Phil: Do you think they would have been, A, do you think they would have been better off doing a GTA-style open world game, and B, do you think they're capable of doing that, given the range of, you know, driving, shooting and all the rest of it?

00:49:34.160 --> 00:49:50.240

Tom: I think they were smart and did not do that, because when you look at GTA-style games, what other than Saints Row has done that in a way that is as enjoyable as Grand Theft Auto?

00:49:50.260 --> 00:49:50.520

Phil: None.

00:49:51.580 --> 00:49:52.180

Tom: Exactly.

00:49:52.860 --> 00:50:06.420

Tom: And the games that do that really well, that people enjoy as a polished experience, like, for example, Sleeping Dogs, or God forbid, some people say Yakuza.

00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:08.300

Phil: Or Far Cry.

00:50:10.700 --> 00:50:12.940

Tom: Far Cry, I think, is more in the Stalker mold.

00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:22.320

Tom: I think you have to give Stalker credit for them building on that after the original Far Cry.

00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:22.920

Phil: Fair enough.

00:50:24.020 --> 00:50:27.920

Phil: But it's probably smart for them to avoid the take to...

00:50:27.940 --> 00:50:46.040

Tom: Anyone who has done that properly, I mean, that has done that successfully, as much shit as this has got for not having police chases and things like that, have avoided attempting to do Grand Theft Auto and done something interesting with a slightly different take on it.

00:50:46.080 --> 00:51:05.580

Tom: And this is building much more on Metal Gear Solid 5, and this is the other area where I argue there is an incredible improvement on Witcher 3, and that is in the combat and basic gameplay loop.

00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:31.580

Tom: Where it is not necessarily as good as the Witcher 3 in terms of the combat is in the leveling system, but you can still do some really interesting stuff and also a lot of the skills they give you don't really affect how you play, like the hacking stuff and things like that, other than super overpowered things where you basically kill everyone in the level by releasing a virus.

00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:43.980

Tom: Using hacking or not using hacking other than when you're overpowered or basic things like knowing where enemies are really has no effect.

00:51:44.180 --> 00:51:52.660

Tom: So it's basically just a first person shooter with RPG elements that affect how much damage you do and your armor and things like that.

00:51:52.800 --> 00:52:02.780

Tom: But that's one area where it is interesting as an RPG, because you can come up with kind of ridiculously broken builds in a fun way.

00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:10.080

Tom: Like I said, you can do a ridiculously overpowered hacking build where you can kill everything in a level by releasing a virus.

00:52:10.260 --> 00:52:21.740

Tom: You can also do things like stack damage multipliers, so that your critical hits will do several times more damage than any enemy in the game has.

00:52:22.340 --> 00:52:40.940

Tom: And that, to me anyway, in a first-person shooter makes it enjoyable, because if you're stacking stealth stats for hitting people from stealth, as well as headshots, it adds a layer of skill, because you have to be stealthy and get headshots, and then you're rewarded with an instant kill.

00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:44.040

Tom: And if you don't do that, then you get into trouble.

00:52:44.600 --> 00:52:46.980

Tom: So that sort of stuff is a lot of fun.

00:52:47.420 --> 00:53:05.900

Tom: But more importantly, the way the world is constructed is very much like Grand Theft Auto, where it's an open world with, in the open world, there are various miniature sort of dungeons that you run into, many of which you can totally ignore if you want.

00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:12.000

Tom: And you go through these dungeons using stealth or however you want to approach it.

00:53:12.640 --> 00:53:40.300

Tom: And they're little mini levels that combined with the relatively satisfying gunplay that you can make really satisfying if you stack skills like I have, it ends up actually being an enjoyable experience as a game in terms of combat, which The Witcher 3 was not for me at any point, including after they altered the control scheme.

00:53:40.940 --> 00:53:44.740

Phil: I've got to say after upgrading my PC, I did the usual things.

00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:56.100

Phil: I played Crysis, I went into Witcher, and it's nice to be able to go into games and put everything on Ultra and just put them through their paces.

00:53:56.620 --> 00:54:03.520

Phil: And playing Witcher on Ultra, admittingly it's an old game, yeah, it looked pretty shaky.

00:54:03.540 --> 00:54:10.820

Phil: I mean, it looked less than last gen video games in terms of certain aspects of it.

00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:28.800

Phil: So I forget my point, but in terms of, that's right, in terms of Witcher, actually playing it, it wasn't a fully enjoyable game, but I was more engaged with the world than I was with the characters or the gameplay.

00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:31.560

Phil: As you said, the fighting let me down.

00:54:32.940 --> 00:54:37.700

Phil: So is the Die of Destiny ready here, or have you got more?

00:54:37.720 --> 00:54:42.660

Tom: No, I have not finished it yet, so the Die of Destiny will have to wait.

00:54:42.680 --> 00:54:44.140

Phil: Wait, okay, very good.

00:54:44.140 --> 00:54:45.420

Tom: Did you have another question?

00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:51.960

Phil: Ultimately, it sounds to me like it's interesting enough if you have a PC to play it.

00:54:53.040 --> 00:54:56.620

Phil: It's still a very full price game though, I imagine.

00:54:57.620 --> 00:55:00.040

Tom: Yes, I believe it is, but if you...

00:55:00.060 --> 00:55:09.940

Tom: And I should add, because I got this as a physical copy from a pre-order when it was, I think, about 25% off.

00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:16.700

Tom: And I calculated correctly that even with the atrocious launch, it still hasn't really been going down in price.

00:55:16.740 --> 00:55:30.540

Tom: But as with all prior CD Projekt Red releases, the physical version is absolutely worth getting, even at a little bit over what...

00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:35.220

Tom: I mean, it was actually 25% cheaper than what you would pay for the digital version.

00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:44.540

Tom: But even if you have to pay more than the digital version, just a little bit, it is worth getting, as with all prior CD Projekt Red releases.

00:55:44.720 --> 00:55:47.240

Phil: And that's because of the extras involved?

00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:48.140

Tom: Yes, yes.

00:55:48.520 --> 00:56:08.720

Tom: It had postcards from the setting, a quality map, a lore book, a reversible cover, which works better than many reversible covers, given the fact that it reverses between a male and female V.

00:56:09.260 --> 00:56:16.080

Tom: And I think some other things that I can't recall right now, but it was, all of those things were extremely well produced.

00:56:16.160 --> 00:56:27.000

Phil: Okay, I don't know why they'd include a book about the lore in there, but anyway, but you know, maybe when we're talking about Space Court, that would have been more relevant if they'd include a lore book.

00:56:27.040 --> 00:56:35.260

Phil: But all right, well, it sounds good, but like, is a physical copy as useless as any other physical copy in that you put it into your computer and then you download 200-

00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:37.700

Tom: Oh, well, that reminds me, that reminds me.

00:56:37.720 --> 00:56:45.520

Tom: Actually, one of the best things about it was it features a two-disc set of the OST.

00:56:45.680 --> 00:56:46.820

Phil: Oh, okay, very good.

00:56:47.160 --> 00:56:49.860

Phil: So it's got some actual useful discs in it.

00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:51.200

Tom: Yes, it does.

00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:58.560

Tom: And the code for the game came on a credit card like Scratchy.

00:56:58.720 --> 00:56:59.420

Phil: Oh, that's cool.

00:57:00.380 --> 00:57:01.640

Phil: Yeah, yeah, that's cool.

00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:07.980

Phil: Okay, well, Cyber Punk 2077 will go scoreless for this episode.

00:57:08.460 --> 00:57:21.920

Tom: Just remembered something hilarious, which perfectly epitomizes the utter failing of Cyber Punk 2077 of using the genre as it was intended to be.

00:57:22.580 --> 00:57:41.820

Tom: One of the other interesting themes in Cyber Punk, as opposed to most sci-fi, is that the protagonists and characters, not necessarily the protagonists, but always characters in it, there are always characters featured in extremely low-paid jobs.

00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:49.580

Tom: For example, many of the characters in Cyber Punk are working as pizza delivery men and things like that.

00:57:49.980 --> 00:57:55.780

Tom: And I don't know if you've heard of this thing known as the Gig economy and the company called Uber.

00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:56.700

Phil: Yep, I've heard of them.

00:57:57.320 --> 00:57:58.020

Tom: Yep.

00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:05.360

Tom: Seems like a pretty obvious thing to be integrating into your story there.

00:58:05.380 --> 00:58:15.680

Tom: But alas, no one is delivering anything except for as parts of important, organized crime heists, unfortunately.

00:58:16.520 --> 00:58:17.660

Phil: It's a lost opportunity.

00:58:19.700 --> 00:58:23.320

Tom: But speaking of crime, Space Court.

00:58:23.340 --> 00:58:28.000

Phil: Yes, Space Court, it's a video game for the PC only, I think.

00:58:29.500 --> 00:58:31.960

Phil: It's exactly spelt as you would think, two words.

00:58:32.080 --> 00:58:34.660

Phil: It's published by a company called Uphill Productions.

00:58:34.680 --> 00:58:38.060

Phil: And from what I can tell, this is their first and only game so far.

00:58:40.160 --> 00:58:47.960

Phil: And it's in the realm of, I'd say 386, 286 type graphics, if you think of early...

00:58:47.980 --> 00:58:49.540

Tom: 486, I'd say.

00:58:49.680 --> 00:58:50.920

Phil: What did I say, 386?

00:58:51.020 --> 00:58:51.280

Phil: Oh, nah.

00:58:51.300 --> 00:58:53.200

Tom: 386 or 286.

00:58:53.220 --> 00:58:54.560

Phil: Yeah, no, it'd be 386.

00:58:56.440 --> 00:59:12.040

Phil: If you think of Space Quest on the 286, but with full color, not full color, but probably, I'd say, 16 range color, then this game would have been achievable, I think, on a 286.

00:59:12.060 --> 00:59:14.800

Phil: And that's why I said 386, because the colors weren't there.

00:59:15.100 --> 00:59:18.900

Phil: Because on 286, you were limited to like cyan and purple, black and white.

00:59:19.620 --> 00:59:21.480

Phil: And this is a full range color game.

00:59:22.620 --> 00:59:28.040

Tom: Given the detail involved and some of the animation, I'm still going to go with 486.

00:59:28.060 --> 00:59:28.760

Phil: Yep, fair enough.

00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:36.840

Phil: From a computational perspective, but I think from an aesthetic, it harkens back towards those earlier PC platforms.

00:59:38.260 --> 00:59:39.080

Phil: Would you not agree?

00:59:40.360 --> 00:59:49.260

Phil: Yep, and it's a game that takes place in a single screen, which used to be important back in the day, is how many screens a game had.

00:59:50.700 --> 01:00:00.680

Phil: Essentially, if I'm getting the story correctly, you are an innocent bystander who has been made a judge of a court.

01:00:01.660 --> 01:00:07.820

Tom: The judges in this Galactic Empire are drafted a la jurors.

01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:08.680

Phil: Yeah, yep.

01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:10.380

Phil: So all of a sudden you're a judge.

01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:14.760

Tom: And there also appears to be no jurors, by the way, so that may be why.

01:00:14.780 --> 01:00:16.400

Phil: Yep, and quick fire.

01:00:16.700 --> 01:00:22.460

Phil: These people will come before you with their cases, and you basically have to rule on them.

01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:24.080

Phil: It's a pretty short game.

01:00:24.100 --> 01:00:29.300

Phil: I think it's less than two hours, possibly slightly more than two hours.

01:00:30.220 --> 01:00:36.280

Tom: I believe it took me 79 minutes or less.

01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:39.120

Phil: I think it took me like an hour and 20 minutes or something like that too.

01:00:39.140 --> 01:00:41.060

Phil: So we're about the same place.

01:00:43.140 --> 01:00:44.140

Phil: What did you think of it?

01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:46.120

Tom: I thought it was great.

01:00:47.040 --> 01:00:53.760

Tom: Basically, the people coming before your court are a variety of aliens.

01:00:53.780 --> 01:01:12.780

Tom: I'm not sure if that's necessarily the right term given that it is a Galactic Court, but denizens of different planets under your rule of law as a Galactic Empire judge with their grievances which are related to each other's activities.

01:01:14.520 --> 01:01:30.760

Tom: For example, there is an alliance between a very aggressive planet and a more peaceful planet who share the spoils of the pillaging and looting of the aggressive planet.

01:01:31.980 --> 01:01:50.900

Tom: And there is an orc-like species which is running into difficulties with a water-inhabiting octopus or jellyfish, rather like species, as they are all of a sudden stuck together on the same planet.

01:01:51.040 --> 01:01:55.740

Tom: And you have to try and resolve these issues.

01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:08.480

Phil: So as they come before you, you'll be given an option, usually three or four choices, to respond in terms of your dialogue, which will determine how the court case goes.

01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:17.360

Phil: And to me, I found that the writing was pivotal in this.

01:02:17.500 --> 01:02:21.500

Phil: You know, some of the animations of the characters, the simple animations, are fine.

01:02:21.720 --> 01:02:27.680

Phil: I don't think any of the characters were particularly drawn well outside of the genre.

01:02:27.700 --> 01:02:28.980

Tom: I think they managed to be huge.

01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:29.960

Phil: Yeah, very, very...

01:02:30.180 --> 01:02:30.960

Tom: And endearing.

01:02:31.100 --> 01:02:34.760

Phil: And they got the point across, but the key to me was the writing.

01:02:37.040 --> 01:02:40.640

Tom: I think Special Mention should also go to the music, though.

01:02:41.520 --> 01:02:41.860

Phil: Yes.

01:02:41.940 --> 01:02:59.300

Tom: Because it managed to capture that overly amplified feeling of 486 or 386 music in games without it being quite as annoying as they actually were.

01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:04.360

Phil: And the game certainly has, because of the single screen, has that pantomime quality to it.

01:03:05.240 --> 01:03:15.940

Phil: It's the sort of thing that you could imagine if translated into the language of the times, you know, appearing on a stage in the 1800s and people just gobbling it up.

01:03:16.120 --> 01:03:22.860

Phil: And like, you know, if you had the dialogue choices on a chalkboard or a piece of canvas that...

01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:23.860

Tom: Just change...

01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:24.560

Tom: very simple.

01:03:24.620 --> 01:03:35.760

Tom: Just change the people in it from being different species in a galactic empire to different savages in a colonial empire.

01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:36.720

Tom: Perfect.

01:03:36.740 --> 01:03:49.160

Phil: And if you're doing a stage show and then all these choices unfurl on a piece of canvas and the crowd yells out, you know, one or two or three, you know, and then the actor's actually engaged, this completely works.

01:03:49.180 --> 01:04:04.820

Phil: I mean, this is a very low-tech game in terms of its implementation because what it relies on is its storytelling dialogue, its stereotypes, and because they're in a galactic realm, they're funny, they're not offensive.

01:04:05.520 --> 01:04:10.860

Phil: I'd find them funny if they were not in an intergalactic theme, but it's just really well done.

01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:22.240

Phil: I got to the end of the game thinking that this would be a three act game, that, okay, yep, we've resolved these, you know, these two or three cases, and what are they going to serve me next?

01:04:22.640 --> 01:04:25.660

Phil: And sadly, the game ended at that point.

01:04:26.060 --> 01:04:30.080

Phil: So, you know, I credit the game for its value.

01:04:30.100 --> 01:04:31.920

Phil: It's like $2.50.

01:04:32.180 --> 01:04:34.400

Tom: And honestly, I think it's $4.00.

01:04:34.420 --> 01:04:36.220

Phil: Yeah, $4.50.

01:04:36.520 --> 01:04:42.800

Phil: I got it for free because I traded in all my trading cards on Steam because I was just sick of seeing them.

01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:46.080

Phil: So I sold them all and, you know, I got the game for free.

01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:51.680

Phil: It was kind of a goal for me as I moved through selling off all my trading cards on Steam.

01:04:53.080 --> 01:04:56.160

Phil: And, yeah, I was really well pleased with this game.

01:04:56.200 --> 01:04:57.220

Phil: I thought it was great.

01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.840

Phil: I'd give it probably an 8 out of 10.

01:05:01.620 --> 01:05:06.580

Phil: I think it's not the sort of game that supports downloadable content.

01:05:06.640 --> 01:05:10.540

Phil: I don't think there's going to be additional, you know, rounds of content for this game.

01:05:11.420 --> 01:05:16.340

Phil: But for the people or persons who were responsible for it, you know, keep going, please.

01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:18.240

Phil: It was very enjoyable.

01:05:18.260 --> 01:05:21.140

Phil: And did you turn me on to it, or did I turn you on to it?

01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:24.500

Tom: You turned me on to it.

01:05:24.520 --> 01:05:26.980

Phil: Yeah, I think you asked if it was a work simulator, which...

01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:28.440

Tom: Yes, it is.

01:05:28.560 --> 01:05:29.260

Phil: You think it is?

01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:30.580

Tom: It absolutely is, yes.

01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:33.680

Phil: It doesn't have the rituals of a work simulator?

01:05:34.620 --> 01:05:35.260

Tom: It does.

01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:41.720

Tom: Every day, they come to you with their problems and whining, and you have to give them answers.

01:05:42.200 --> 01:06:06.040

Tom: We should add in terms of gameplay, there is a trust meter that each representative of each planet has, and you obviously need to have that as high as possible, but you have to be balancing that with trying to work out what the best solutions, as you see, fit out of the problems.

01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:10.000

Tom: So that's how the gameplay is interesting.

01:06:12.040 --> 01:06:29.820

Tom: And to be able to tell them what to do at the end, so that it ends with whatever solution you come up, you have to have their trust level at a certain amount for them to actually put their faith in you and do what you advise.

01:06:30.680 --> 01:06:35.140

Phil: The game is only available on Steam or Gamejolt.

01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:39.800

Phil: It's not available on itch.io, to which we owe much.

01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:45.460

Phil: But yeah, certainly well worth playing and experiencing.

01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:48.140

Phil: You can get it on Steam for $2.99.

01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:51.600

Phil: It's got an average rating of 9 out of 10.

01:06:51.620 --> 01:06:56.680

Phil: Yeah, a thoroughly innovative and enjoyable game.

01:06:57.060 --> 01:06:58.200

Phil: Certainly very brave.

01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:06.800

Phil: And I hope that the developer uphill, you know, sticks with it and brings us something else as well.

01:07:07.260 --> 01:07:15.940

Phil: I'm imagining, I hope that they don't just do a derivative type King's Quest type game, because obviously Space Court...

01:07:16.040 --> 01:07:17.560

Tom: A medieval King Court.

01:07:17.580 --> 01:07:18.440

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:07:18.600 --> 01:07:19.680

Phil: I mean, maybe, I mean...

01:07:19.960 --> 01:07:23.880

Tom: Well, a King Court could in fact be a totally different sort of court.

01:07:23.900 --> 01:07:26.440

Phil: Yeah, we can only hope for a Space Court 2.

01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:32.560

Tom: But I think one of the most original and brave things about it was how short it was.

01:07:32.580 --> 01:07:34.320

Tom: And I wasn't expecting it.

01:07:35.020 --> 01:07:37.040

Tom: It was perfectly self-contained.

01:07:37.460 --> 01:07:43.480

Tom: Everything in the story, well, at least how I entered it, was well resolved.

01:07:44.740 --> 01:07:59.400

Tom: The arc of you and your interactions with your boss, who hilariously at the end where the shit is about to hit the fan, takes sick leave and runs off, are all resolved.

01:07:59.960 --> 01:08:05.920

Tom: And the character arcs of the other characters as well are nicely resolved as well.

01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:15.580

Tom: I think as a flash fiction, it works perfectly and it doesn't give you any bullshit of trying to set up anything, any sort of sequel or DLC or anything like that.

01:08:15.600 --> 01:08:27.320

Tom: I think one of the best things about it was that it managed to be a really short, really satisfying story that ended as well as it started and was perfectly satisfying, for me anyway.

01:08:27.340 --> 01:08:31.940

Phil: Yeah, definitely, unlike Coffee Talk, which we might get to later on.

01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:36.720

Phil: But okay, so is The Die of Destiny ready for this one?

01:08:36.740 --> 01:08:37.540

Phil: You did finish it.

01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:40.120

Tom: We have to get into spoiler territory about the ending.

01:08:40.140 --> 01:08:41.920

Phil: Oh, do we though?

01:08:41.940 --> 01:08:44.040

Tom: Do we do that before or after The Die of Destiny?

01:08:44.060 --> 01:08:45.060

Phil: Do The Die of Destiny.

01:08:45.080 --> 01:08:48.580

Tom: Okay, your rating was an 8 out of 10, right?

01:08:51.440 --> 01:08:52.100

Phil: Sounds like a 6.

01:08:52.120 --> 01:08:56.960

Tom: The Die of Destiny is spoken, and it gets a 0 out of 10.

01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:00.280

Phil: So the, averaging it out...

01:09:00.340 --> 01:09:01.540

Tom: Oh, actually, no, hang on.

01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:02.040

Tom: I'm just...

01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:04.860

Tom: The dice can be a little confusing.

01:09:04.920 --> 01:09:07.460

Tom: No, 0 is a 10, I just realized.

01:09:07.540 --> 01:09:11.380

Phil: All right, so it's 18 divided by 2 is 9, so that's a 9.

01:09:11.740 --> 01:09:18.140

Tom: Having looked at some ancient bylaw on the dice, it turns out that 0 is a 10.

01:09:18.820 --> 01:09:23.640

Tom: So Space Court, 10 out of 10, giving it a total score of 18 out of 20.

01:09:24.400 --> 01:09:26.380

Phil: Yeah, 18 out of 20 or 9 out of 10.

01:09:26.400 --> 01:09:29.480

Phil: So, yeah, I can...

01:09:29.480 --> 01:09:30.340

Phil: I'm happy with that.

01:09:30.400 --> 01:09:31.320

Phil: I can grant it that.

01:09:33.580 --> 01:09:35.660

Phil: Now, spoiler territory...

01:09:37.300 --> 01:09:40.220

Tom: And I would recommend playing it without being spoiled.

01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:42.980

Phil: Oh, well, should we hold the spoiler to the end of the show?

01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:44.020

Phil: Talk about some other games.

01:09:44.320 --> 01:09:46.700

Phil: Yeah, because we don't want to spoil people.

01:09:46.720 --> 01:09:47.700

Phil: It's a $3 game.

01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:48.880

Phil: Go buy it, people.

01:09:49.660 --> 01:09:50.840

Phil: We know you've got a PC.

01:09:50.860 --> 01:09:52.540

Phil: You're listening to a podcast, so...

01:09:54.060 --> 01:09:57.120

Phil: Okay, so what's the next game on the list?

01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:00.540

Tom: Well, you did mention Coffee Talk.

01:10:01.240 --> 01:10:01.980

Phil: I did mention...

01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:09.800

Tom: You also mentioned Not Tonight, but let's ignore all of those choices and go for The Medium, which was recently released.

01:10:09.820 --> 01:10:12.660

Tom: It's made by, I believe they're called Bloober Team.

01:10:14.360 --> 01:10:21.320

Tom: Who are famous for Layers of Fear and other first-person horror games.

01:10:21.340 --> 01:10:25.940

Tom: The Medium is interesting, and they are, I think, another Polish developer.

01:10:26.480 --> 01:10:29.980

Tom: They're certainly in Eastern Europe in any case, but...

01:10:30.400 --> 01:10:33.820

Tom: And the game is set in Poland, if I remember correctly, regardless.

01:10:33.940 --> 01:10:49.060

Tom: But The Medium, rather than being first person, is third person, and it plays not unlike old Resident Evil titles, minus the combat.

01:10:49.080 --> 01:10:56.940

Tom: So there are fixed cameras in the level that you move around from room to room, and that sort of thing.

01:10:56.960 --> 01:11:06.460

Tom: And the hook of the game is that you are a medium, and you can enter the spirit world, which splits the screen, which is interesting.

01:11:07.100 --> 01:11:17.100

Tom: One, as a gameplay mechanic, but two, they're an indie team, and this is obviously because the two worlds are actually different and have different things going on them.

01:11:17.440 --> 01:11:31.260

Tom: This is actually a massive technical undertaking, making it one, hot on the heels of Cyber Punk 2077, one of the hardest games you can run on PC today.

01:11:32.580 --> 01:11:34.800

Tom: And they make pretty good use of it.

01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:47.580

Tom: It's used in puzzles where you need to switch back and forth between the two worlds to do things that affect one layer and the other.

01:11:47.780 --> 01:12:03.000

Tom: For example, one of the things you can do in the spirit world is collect spirit energy, which you can then use to power electrical devices in the real world and things like that.

01:12:03.380 --> 01:12:15.640

Tom: I'm pretty early in the game, so that sort of stuff is really simple at this time, but it is nevertheless as an interesting wrinkle to the game play, and it's certainly aesthetically effective.

01:12:16.020 --> 01:12:55.840

Tom: The enemies in the game that are chasing you are in the vein of pans, labyrinths, and I don't know if there's a term for it, but that sort of monster design that is more like grimoire style demons than it is contemporary zombies or other gore based monsters that are much more based on diseases and mutations and mutilated bodies and that sort of thing, which makes for a so far rich experience aesthetically.

01:12:56.060 --> 01:13:00.020

Tom: The rendering of the Polish setting is great.

01:13:00.040 --> 01:13:17.980

Tom: It begins in those beautiful Eastern European blocks of flats, not the Soviet style ones, though many of them could be quite interesting, the ones built before that and from the 19th century.

01:13:18.140 --> 01:13:25.960

Tom: And you then move on in stark contrast to that to a Soviet resort town.

01:13:27.360 --> 01:13:29.560

Tom: So aesthetically, it's really enjoyable.

01:13:29.580 --> 01:13:38.420

Tom: In terms of gameplay, despite the wrinkle of the switching between worlds, it's really basic so far.

01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:42.840

Tom: There is no combat, and it doesn't seem like there will be any combat at any point.

01:13:43.240 --> 01:13:54.440

Tom: So the only time you are actually in danger of anything in the world is either when you're being chased or when you're encountering a swarm of insects, which are totally passive.

01:13:54.740 --> 01:13:59.240

Tom: So if you walk into them without any spirit energy, you'll be killed.

01:13:59.540 --> 01:14:02.300

Tom: If you collect some spirit energy, you can frighten them off with that.

01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:13.820

Tom: So you never really feel like you're in danger, which is kind of a problem for a horror game, because so far the chase sequences have all been totally scripted.

01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:20.000

Phil: Well, the last four games prior to this were survival horror games, of which this is also categorized.

01:14:20.020 --> 01:14:23.900

Phil: So never really feeling in fear is a problem.

01:14:24.640 --> 01:14:25.440

Tom: Yep, it is.

01:14:26.620 --> 01:14:37.320

Tom: But depending on how the game unfolds, it may not if the narrative goes in an interesting direction and the aesthetic remains of high quality.

01:14:37.340 --> 01:14:40.840

Tom: It certainly encourages me to continue playing.

01:14:41.720 --> 01:14:44.520

Phil: The prior game was Blair Witch.

01:14:48.220 --> 01:14:49.680

Phil: Is there any found footage?

01:14:50.180 --> 01:15:01.860

Tom: Well, I was about to mention, not unlike found footage, there is an interesting photo developing minigame mechanic that has been repeated in the game.

01:15:01.880 --> 01:15:18.180

Tom: So I assume it will actually be a mechanic that will continue through the game where you find undeveloped photographic paper, and you have to go through the process of developing it with the several sets of chemicals and exposure to light.

01:15:19.360 --> 01:15:39.900

Tom: So that is basically their main puzzle mechanic in it, and the way they have altered it in the two instances of it so far, so that you are having to figure things out, is in the first one you had to work out how the process worked full stop.

01:15:40.100 --> 01:15:45.400

Tom: In the second you had to arrange the chemicals yourself and do things like that.

01:15:45.700 --> 01:15:58.540

Tom: So I don't know how they can add more things to that to keep that being interesting as a puzzle to solve, but it is an interesting way of introducing a found footage style thing into the game.

01:15:58.540 --> 01:16:04.640

Phil: But long time listeners will know you are a sucker for any mechanic slightly related to photography.

01:16:06.040 --> 01:16:06.460

Tom: Absolutely.

01:16:08.400 --> 01:16:11.920

Phil: As we probably won't get to talk about in 1111, Memories Retold.

01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:19.160

Tom: But in spite of the lack of fear, it is an interesting beginning.

01:16:19.160 --> 01:16:25.460

Tom: But hopefully the horror elements will become a bit more extreme.

01:16:25.480 --> 01:16:39.640

Tom: And the one thing that gets in the way of the otherwise really engrossing setting and aesthetic is all the characters are voiced in English and speak with heavy American accents.

01:16:39.660 --> 01:16:40.080

Phil: Oh, God.

01:16:42.280 --> 01:16:47.300

Tom: The performances themselves are fine, but it just does not fit the setting at all.

01:16:48.080 --> 01:16:52.580

Phil: So if you have a single favourite thing about the game, what is it?

01:16:55.060 --> 01:17:21.400

Tom: I would say it is without question the setting, both in terms of the architecture and also it could go in a really interesting direction because it opens with stock footage from the Nazi occupation of Poland and also Poland before that, among other historical events.

01:17:22.640 --> 01:17:28.380

Tom: And as I said, it goes to a Soviet holiday setting.

01:17:28.580 --> 01:17:49.040

Tom: So if it integrates in a successful and interesting manner, political history into the horror, again, as I said, the aesthetic of the monsters like Pan's Labyrinth, and obviously Pan's Labyrinth was doing that, so there's a reasonable chance it will, then it could end up being quite an interesting experience.

01:17:50.280 --> 01:18:01.000

Phil: Apparently, according to Wikipedia, the whole thing was based on an actual hotel in Krakow, so they leaned heavily on what they knew.

01:18:01.240 --> 01:18:09.540

Phil: And then the audio, which you also say is really great, was done by the Silent Hill Dream Team.

01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:18.480

Phil: The Silent Hill composer did the music, and some of the voice actors and singers were also having worked on prior Silent Hill work.

01:18:19.180 --> 01:18:21.780

Phil: And Silent Hill is known for its audio design.

01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:23.300

Tom: Absolutely.

01:18:23.340 --> 01:18:29.180

Phil: Though I can't quite recall the soundtrack from it, but the audio design of...

01:18:30.120 --> 01:19:02.480

Tom: That's because it was good, and that's a serious statement because the thing that I, anyway, recall most about the Silent Hill soundtrack and the music is legitimately good, but the thing that sticks in my mind and overpowers everything else because it is what remains in the overall aesthetic, and is mostly integrated into it, is the percussion, which is an endless repeated theme like a heartbeat throughout.

01:19:03.560 --> 01:19:06.300

Phil: And I can thoroughly recommend Silent Hill.

01:19:06.620 --> 01:19:18.740

Phil: Any Silent Hill game you can dip into, please do, but Silent Hill Shattered Memories for me, which is probably one of the most hidden of all gems, was just a masterful game.

01:19:19.420 --> 01:19:23.260

Phil: And the people that worked on it went on to do great things.

01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:28.000

Phil: So this is just early impressions of The Medium.

01:19:29.900 --> 01:19:30.440

Phil: Is that right?

01:19:31.200 --> 01:19:31.460

Tom: Yep.

01:19:31.540 --> 01:19:34.720

Phil: And it's available only on Microsoft systems.

01:19:34.740 --> 01:19:48.100

Phil: So you can play it on Windows, which is probably the best way to go, or you can play it on Xbox Series X or S, which I assume means you can play it on any Xbox One game, unless it's only for the...

01:19:48.440 --> 01:19:51.140

Phil: No, it's only for the new consoles.

01:19:51.160 --> 01:19:56.500

Tom: Yes, it is most certainly a next-gen title, in terms of its look.

01:19:57.120 --> 01:20:00.380

Tom: As is Cyber Punk 2077.

01:20:00.420 --> 01:20:16.640

Tom: I think those, certainly on PC anyway that I've played, those are the two games that stand out aesthetically, in terms of technically what they're doing, as being, quote, next-gen, end-quote titles.

01:20:17.560 --> 01:20:32.180

Tom: Games previously, like Exodus, had elements in them that were like that, but in Cyber Punk 2077, the ray tracing effects and the level of detail in the characters is incredible as well, and the textures.

01:20:32.600 --> 01:20:43.140

Tom: But the way ray tracing transforms the total aesthetic in that game is absolutely a generational leap that affects everything visually.

01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:58.820

Tom: And The Medium, while by no means as spectacular as that, the way that the split screen is handled would not be possible, at least for an indie team anyway, on all the hardware.

01:21:00.860 --> 01:21:04.980

Phil: And I'll use out the worn out anecdote about what TV is.

01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:08.680

Phil: They call it a medium because it is neither rare nor well done.

01:21:10.500 --> 01:21:14.600

Phil: But perhaps the medium will wait and get a score from you on a future episode.

01:21:15.360 --> 01:21:19.340

Phil: One of the reasons I like talking to Tom Towers is his unique perspective.

01:21:19.580 --> 01:21:28.720

Phil: And certainly you can enjoy that at our website at gameunder.net where Tom, you've apparently read 425 books last year.

01:21:29.660 --> 01:21:30.480

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:21:30.540 --> 01:21:35.780

Phil: And covered this in two different articles at gameunder.net.

01:21:36.660 --> 01:21:43.660

Phil: Out of the 425 books, most of us probably read less than 10 books a year, if we're quote intellectual.

01:21:45.340 --> 01:21:46.500

Phil: So is there a sink?

01:21:46.520 --> 01:21:57.480

Tom: Well, some of the 66 books I've read so far this year would suggest that being an intellectual is a very, very bad thing indeed.

01:21:57.500 --> 01:21:58.180

Phil: I would agree.

01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:02.620

Tom: So I would recommend reading less than 10 books a year.

01:22:02.840 --> 01:22:04.300

Phil: I would certainly agree with that.

01:22:04.500 --> 01:22:11.800

Phil: And I'm sure our listeners would as well, because instead of reading those 66 books, we probably could have done 4 episodes of the podcast.

01:22:12.440 --> 01:22:18.500

Phil: Is there a single book that you wish to highlight out of the 425 as a must read for our listeners?

01:22:20.500 --> 01:22:29.280

Tom: Well, we were talking about aesthetics, so I would have to recommend two I'm going to go with.

01:22:29.780 --> 01:22:33.520

Tom: One is the Red Book by Carl Jung.

01:22:33.820 --> 01:22:41.500

Tom: And Jung is famous, of course, as being the greatest psychologist not known as Freud.

01:22:42.760 --> 01:23:01.420

Tom: I assume that's how most people know him, but his towering achievement, which obliterates anything Freud has done, is a visionary illuminated manuscript called the Red Book, and it is absolutely gorgeous.

01:23:02.240 --> 01:23:10.880

Phil: Not to be confused with the Little Red Book or the Red Book Carr Research price guide.

01:23:11.940 --> 01:23:22.780

Tom: The Little Red Book I would also recommend, but better than that is Mao's poetry, which is surprisingly legitimately good.

01:23:23.140 --> 01:23:25.640

Phil: No poetry is legitimately good.

01:23:26.040 --> 01:23:28.380

Phil: I will go to my grave based on that.

01:23:29.780 --> 01:23:31.220

Phil: Who wrote the Little Red Book?

01:23:33.120 --> 01:23:33.580

Tom: Mao.

01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:36.760

Tom: You mean who compiled its content?

01:23:37.040 --> 01:23:38.100

Phil: Who actually wrote it?

01:23:38.500 --> 01:23:38.940

Phil: Mao did.

01:23:43.200 --> 01:23:46.820

Phil: I remain dubious.

01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:54.900

Tom: You can be skeptical of Mao's political achievements, but you can't be skeptical of his work as a warrior poet.

01:23:54.920 --> 01:24:02.160

Phil: Everyone listen up, because Tom read 425 books, so he's recommending The Red Book by Carl Jung.

01:24:03.940 --> 01:24:12.020

Phil: And what is it really, I mean, what is it, is it a theoretical study of some philosophy?

01:24:13.140 --> 01:24:14.140

Phil: What's it actually about?

01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:18.360

Tom: Well, it depends on what you mean by Bao.

01:24:18.380 --> 01:24:26.340

Tom: It's an illuminated manuscript illustrating his prophetic journey of self-discovery.

01:24:26.480 --> 01:24:30.620

Phil: Now, Jung said that to suit…

01:24:30.920 --> 01:24:32.720

Tom: It's basically religious art, essentially.

01:24:32.740 --> 01:24:38.020

Phil: Jung said himself, to the superficial observer, it will appear like madness.

01:24:39.960 --> 01:24:41.840

Phil: Is that hypercritical?

01:24:41.860 --> 01:24:45.560

Tom: I don't think that's accurate at all.

01:24:45.580 --> 01:24:47.080

Phil: So he's just self-deprecating.

01:24:48.420 --> 01:24:49.580

Tom: I think he's showing off.

01:24:51.200 --> 01:24:57.360

Tom: This is the era of occultism and naive art and automatic writing.

01:24:58.100 --> 01:24:59.960

Tom: So I think that's a statement showing off.

01:25:01.040 --> 01:25:02.340

Phil: I'm going to have to look into that.

01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:08.780

Phil: You are the king of the court here, so what's the next game we're going to be talking about?

01:25:09.540 --> 01:25:17.960

Tom: Well, given your statements on poetry, I'm going to recommend major poems by Jose Marti.

01:25:19.620 --> 01:25:22.060

Tom: The Cuban poet, which is...

01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:51.640

Tom: The poems themselves are exceptionally good, many of them anyway, but it is particularly notable given that he is nearly a whole generation before Rimbaud and others and is very much in that vein but significantly better and arguably has greater visionary imagery and more interesting juxtaposition of images as well.

01:25:51.660 --> 01:25:52.780

Phil: Doesn't he fall, though...

01:25:53.140 --> 01:25:54.800

Phil: He was a Cuban fellow, as I recall.

01:25:54.920 --> 01:25:57.160

Phil: Doesn't he fall more into that Mark Twain...

01:25:57.920 --> 01:26:01.400

Phil: Afro-like, you know...

01:26:01.600 --> 01:26:04.760

Phil: You know, I mean, really, it's just...

01:26:04.780 --> 01:26:06.000

Phil: He's a humorist, isn't he?

01:26:07.180 --> 01:26:07.460

Tom: No.

01:26:07.480 --> 01:26:10.000

Tom: I don't think he is.

01:26:10.940 --> 01:26:13.760

Tom: I think you must be thinking of another Jose Marte.

01:26:14.980 --> 01:26:15.920

Phil: Alright, fair enough.

01:26:16.200 --> 01:26:17.940

Phil: So where's Jose Marte from?

01:26:19.280 --> 01:26:19.760

Tom: Cuba.

01:26:19.780 --> 01:26:21.420

Phil: Okay, well, we're talking about the same guy.

01:26:21.440 --> 01:26:22.800

Tom: No, we're not.

01:26:23.400 --> 01:26:26.680

Phil: He was basically like a limerick kind of writer, you know.

01:26:26.700 --> 01:26:34.520

Phil: He had these short little quips, you know, that we go, oh, yeah, okay, you know, aphorisms and truisms and witticisms.

01:26:34.760 --> 01:26:35.620

Phil: I mean, it wasn't...

01:26:35.740 --> 01:26:36.680

Tom: When was he from?

01:26:36.700 --> 01:26:39.200

Tom: When is this Jose Marte from?

01:26:39.220 --> 01:26:43.700

Phil: It's like the 1800s or something, like early 1900s maybe.

01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:46.320

Phil: I remember learning about him at uni.

01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:53.540

Tom: Well, he was also a politician and a warrior, a soldier, sorry.

01:26:53.560 --> 01:26:56.880

Tom: So he may have also written poetry like that.

01:26:57.140 --> 01:26:57.700

Phil: I don't know.

01:26:57.720 --> 01:26:59.000

Tom: For propaganda purposes.

01:27:00.520 --> 01:27:02.100

Phil: But Jose Marte...

01:27:02.120 --> 01:27:04.840

Tom: Look up the book, yes, correct.

01:27:04.980 --> 01:27:07.540

Tom: Look up the book major poems specifically.

01:27:08.440 --> 01:27:10.280

Phil: Okay, I'll look into that.

01:27:12.980 --> 01:27:15.500

Tom: I'm not recommending his other poetry.

01:27:15.780 --> 01:27:19.480

Tom: He may have also written Mark Twain style aphorisms.

01:27:20.020 --> 01:27:22.280

Phil: I'm just saying, man, that was my exposure to him.

01:27:22.300 --> 01:27:27.520

Phil: You know, he had these kind of, you know, whimsical humorous kind of things.

01:27:27.940 --> 01:27:31.620

Tom: That's also the sort of thing that would be highlighted in the university course.

01:27:31.640 --> 01:27:32.200

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

01:27:32.960 --> 01:27:34.740

Phil: Especially one that's taught in America.

01:27:35.400 --> 01:27:37.640

Phil: Hey, speaking of Sky Child...

01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:43.940

Tom: Especially one that's taught in America when he was also a Cuban nationalist.

01:27:44.220 --> 01:27:48.420

Phil: Speaking of Sky Children of Light, is apparently...

01:27:48.620 --> 01:27:49.600

Tom: And nationalist.

01:27:49.620 --> 01:27:54.660

Phil: Still coming out for the Nintendo Switch in spring of 2021.

01:27:54.800 --> 01:27:58.100

Phil: And so that would be late this year, if you can believe it.

01:27:59.640 --> 01:28:02.100

Tom: And it is currently embroiled in a controversy.

01:28:02.120 --> 01:28:04.860

Phil: Well, yeah, if you can believe it, which I don't.

01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:06.140

Phil: So what's the controversy?

01:28:07.380 --> 01:28:13.000

Tom: Well, the controversy is that it refers to one of the hats in the current system.

01:28:13.020 --> 01:28:29.300

Tom: It refers to this season as being inspired by a sort of Chinese hat, which the Koreans who play Sky have taken great offense to because they believe that that hat style is an invention of Korea, sorry.

01:28:30.340 --> 01:28:33.700

Phil: Okay, so it has a big following in Korea then?

01:28:34.640 --> 01:28:37.220

Tom: It has a big following in both Korea and China.

01:28:39.420 --> 01:28:50.300

Tom: And this is one of those soft points in between countries that have had colonial interactions with one another, essentially.

01:28:50.800 --> 01:28:54.660

Tom: And thus share many cultural elements.

01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:59.860

Tom: And this then generates much debate over who invented said cultural elements.

01:28:59.880 --> 01:29:01.080

Phil: I'd love to see this hat.

01:29:02.080 --> 01:29:03.140

Phil: Is it kind of one of...

01:29:03.420 --> 01:29:06.080

Phil: I'm trying to think, is it like a Hasidic kind of hat?

01:29:06.100 --> 01:29:10.540

Phil: Like a big stovepipe hat that comes down and covers the ears?

01:29:10.780 --> 01:29:15.720

Tom: It is kind of like a big stovepipe hat, but it has a very wide brim.

01:29:16.180 --> 01:29:32.020

Tom: It's not unlike Mexican and Central American hats, not the sombrero, though somewhat similar to that, but more flat brimmed black hats that you see in Central America as well.

01:29:32.040 --> 01:29:33.180

Tom: I'm not sure what the term is for.

01:29:33.200 --> 01:29:34.100

Phil: I'm looking at the hat.

01:29:34.120 --> 01:29:35.220

Phil: This is not controversy.

01:29:36.180 --> 01:29:37.340

Phil: This is not a controversy.

01:29:37.360 --> 01:29:41.340

Phil: It's just basically like a cattleman's sombrero.

01:29:42.600 --> 01:29:43.840

Tom: It is a controversy.

01:29:44.020 --> 01:29:45.160

Phil: Well, I know it's a controversy.

01:29:45.180 --> 01:29:47.280

Tom: There are a lot of angry people in the game.

01:29:48.260 --> 01:29:53.440

Phil: Both sides are claiming cultural significance related to the cosmetic item and refusing to give an inch.

01:29:57.180 --> 01:30:01.980

Phil: It's meant to resemble a gat, which is a traditional Korean headgear.

01:30:03.420 --> 01:30:11.200

Tom: It's, according to Jenova Chan, meant to resemble a traditional Chinese hat, which is like that Korean hat.

01:30:13.160 --> 01:30:15.260

Tom: But is Chinese a legend?

01:30:15.280 --> 01:30:30.120

Phil: Chinese users quickly laid claim to the hat as a feature of their cultural heritage, both in game and on social media, echoing the large movement by Chinese nationalists to discredit Korean culture as stolen from China during the two regions' historical relationship.

01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:31.900

Phil: This is a big deal.

01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:36.960

Tom: And Jenova Chen has made a statement.

01:30:36.980 --> 01:30:43.380

Tom: He first of all apologized for any confusion and did confirm that it was inspired by the Chinese hat.

01:30:44.220 --> 01:31:06.040

Tom: And it's interesting that that article mentions Chinese nationalism, but my Korean friends in the game are very much approaching this as an issue of national identity and nationalism and a part of affirming Korea's place in the world as a nation.

01:31:06.440 --> 01:31:12.360

Tom: So I would suggest that it is evident of both Chinese and Korean nationalism.

01:31:12.600 --> 01:31:17.580

Phil: Well, I'm going to have to wait till spring, apparently, to find out about this and join you in...

01:31:19.260 --> 01:31:21.020

Phil: Children of Sky, Children of Light.

01:31:21.040 --> 01:31:30.820

Tom: And thank god none of anyone I know on Sky visits gameunder.net because I believe I referred to that hat as Peruvian.

01:31:30.960 --> 01:31:32.140

Phil: Ooh, you know what?

01:31:32.160 --> 01:31:32.740

Phil: You're right.

01:31:32.760 --> 01:31:34.040

Phil: That is a Peruvian hat.

01:31:35.420 --> 01:31:36.240

Phil: You're damn right.

01:31:36.260 --> 01:31:39.660

Tom: So, fuck China, fuck Korea.

01:31:39.780 --> 01:31:42.340

Tom: The last word is that hat is clearly Peruvian.

01:31:42.980 --> 01:31:45.260

Tom: And they have both China and Korea.

01:31:45.940 --> 01:31:55.560

Tom: Fucking imperial China, stealing cultures all over the world, and now today, culturally appropriating, traditional Peruvian culture.

01:31:55.580 --> 01:31:55.740

Tom: Yeah.

01:31:55.860 --> 01:31:56.580

Tom: Disgusting.

01:31:56.600 --> 01:32:06.760

Phil: And you'll remember, I spent a few years in Peru when I was trying to get that whole powder-coating solution worked out and almost had a major breakthrough.

01:32:07.620 --> 01:32:13.340

Phil: So, if there's someone who knows about Peruvian hats and speaks Peruvian, then it's me, you know?

01:32:13.580 --> 01:32:13.940

Phil: So...

01:32:14.940 --> 01:32:17.760

Tom: Would you like to give us a short sentence in Peruvian?

01:32:18.020 --> 01:32:18.940

Phil: Not at this time.

01:32:19.240 --> 01:32:29.200

Phil: But what I would like, since we're running out of time for this show, you mentioned to me earlier something about Sky Television's nationalist controversy.

01:32:29.220 --> 01:32:31.760

Phil: Do you want to dip into that while we're on topic, or do you want to go...

01:32:31.780 --> 01:32:32.580

Tom: What was Sky?

01:32:32.600 --> 01:32:33.820

Tom: I have no idea what that is.

01:32:33.820 --> 01:32:36.680

Tom: I was talking about Sky Children of Light's national...

01:32:36.700 --> 01:32:38.740

Phil: I thought it was a Sky TV type thing.

01:32:39.620 --> 01:32:43.880

Phil: Because, you know, when you think of Sky TV, you think of nationalist controversies, so...

01:32:45.400 --> 01:32:46.160

Phil: Well done, sir.

01:32:46.240 --> 01:32:47.100

Phil: Well played.

01:32:48.220 --> 01:32:50.620

Phil: All right, well, we've still got time here to talk about one game.

01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:53.580

Phil: So do you want to roll the die and see what we can talk about?

01:32:55.780 --> 01:32:57.180

Tom: Surely not tonight.

01:32:57.200 --> 01:32:58.720

Tom: Wait, no, that's from 2018.

01:32:59.000 --> 01:32:59.700

Tom: Coffee Talk.

01:33:00.320 --> 01:33:01.220

Phil: Coffee Talk.

01:33:01.760 --> 01:33:02.980

Phil: Which is a game by...

01:33:03.220 --> 01:33:06.120

Phil: I'm going to pronounce the company name three ways.

01:33:06.140 --> 01:33:07.040

Phil: It could be Toge.

01:33:07.500 --> 01:33:08.440

Phil: It could be Toge.

01:33:09.020 --> 01:33:10.080

Phil: Or it could be Togue.

01:33:10.300 --> 01:33:11.540

Phil: It's spelled T-O-G-E.

01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:13.420

Tom: It could be Tuge.

01:33:15.620 --> 01:33:17.420

Phil: They're an Indonesian-based developer.

01:33:17.680 --> 01:33:21.980

Phil: I listened to an interview with them prior to this.

01:33:23.380 --> 01:33:24.160

Phil: And good on them.

01:33:24.180 --> 01:33:25.900

Phil: I mean, Indonesia is a big country.

01:33:27.680 --> 01:33:37.820

Phil: And, you know, they're basically single-handedly developing a game development culture and community in Indonesia, which is to be credited.

01:33:38.460 --> 01:33:43.760

Phil: Coffee Talk, having played through it, I never would have assumed it was made in Indonesia.

01:33:44.960 --> 01:33:58.380

Phil: I was so interested by this that I went and played a game called A Space for the Unbound, which is made by the same company, and found it to be, you know, an interesting game.

01:33:58.400 --> 01:33:59.620

Phil: It is actually free.

01:33:59.660 --> 01:34:01.080

Phil: It's the prologue.

01:34:01.720 --> 01:34:02.920

Phil: It is free on Steam.

01:34:03.200 --> 01:34:10.320

Phil: And so if you look up A Space for the Unbound, for podcast purposes, just remember Unbound, you'll find it.

01:34:10.340 --> 01:34:11.580

Phil: It's the only free game on Steam.

01:34:13.460 --> 01:34:14.280

Phil: With that name.

01:34:14.640 --> 01:34:20.520

Phil: And yeah, so Coffee Talk is basically a work simulator.

01:34:21.380 --> 01:34:25.140

Phil: We both played that cyberpunk bartender game Valhalla.

01:34:26.500 --> 01:34:28.140

Phil: I believe you played that one, right?

01:34:29.040 --> 01:34:29.360

Tom: Yes.

01:34:29.460 --> 01:34:33.080

Phil: And basically it pretty much is identical to that.

01:34:33.100 --> 01:34:35.220

Phil: Oh, hello.

01:34:35.240 --> 01:34:37.540

Phil: Di of Destiny speaking prematurely.

01:34:37.560 --> 01:34:38.020

Phil: Is that a premature...

01:34:39.480 --> 01:34:40.860

Tom: Premature role there.

01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:42.600

Phil: Yeah, what was it incidentally?

01:34:43.460 --> 01:34:45.000

Tom: I think it was a one.

01:34:45.100 --> 01:34:45.940

Phil: Oh, okay.

01:34:45.960 --> 01:34:47.860

Phil: Well, we'll see if that improves along the way.

01:34:49.120 --> 01:35:11.400

Phil: So if you take Valhalla, which was the cyberpunk cocktail game where you had to memorize how to make certain cocktails to match your guest's taste and mood, Coffee Talk is pretty much the same thing set in a coffee shop with the aesthetic of the Netflix TV show or the NHK TV show Midnight Diner.

01:35:11.900 --> 01:35:17.080

Phil: Now, I talked about Midnight Diner, which if you have Netflix, please go and watch.

01:35:17.100 --> 01:35:18.300

Phil: The first season was great.

01:35:18.660 --> 01:35:19.700

Phil: Season 2 sucked.

01:35:21.500 --> 01:35:21.900

Phil: But I'm...

01:35:22.080 --> 01:35:23.480

Tom: What about the remake?

01:35:23.500 --> 01:35:28.100

Phil: Well, they have the Midnight Diner Tokyo Stories I haven't got into yet.

01:35:29.280 --> 01:35:31.140

Phil: But if you...

01:35:31.160 --> 01:35:37.240

Phil: Midnight Diner watched the first couple of episodes out of the first season, maybe the first four.

01:35:38.240 --> 01:35:44.500

Phil: But I was watching it season 3 last night, episode 7, and that one is amazing.

01:35:44.860 --> 01:35:57.020

Phil: Like, if you can go from season 1 of Midnight Diner and then just jump ahead to season 3, episode 7, you'll be greatly advantaged by missing season 2.

01:35:57.200 --> 01:35:59.020

Phil: So there is still some greatness there.

01:36:00.020 --> 01:36:08.800

Phil: So basically in that TV show and in Coffee Talk, you play the role of a nameless person behind the counter.

01:36:09.340 --> 01:36:11.820

Phil: People come in and tell you their stories.

01:36:12.960 --> 01:36:22.720

Phil: The main co-character, I guess, or co-protagonist is a writer for a newspaper who is writing her first fictional book.

01:36:23.340 --> 01:36:30.140

Phil: And surprise, surprise, it's based on the people who come to this coffee shop every night.

01:36:32.160 --> 01:36:45.200

Phil: And basically, it's set on planet Earth in Seattle, but it has a whole bunch of fantasy-type characters involved with it, fantasy and aliens.

01:36:45.200 --> 01:36:58.780

Phil: So basically, fantasy characters and aliens are living on Earth, and everyone's cool with that and normal with it, and basically treating these different species as if they were just different genders or different sexual preferences.

01:37:00.620 --> 01:37:11.780

Phil: And you go through basic learning, you know, who the different people are, what their various interactions are, and you can implement that in a very slight manner.

01:37:12.800 --> 01:37:19.980

Phil: Graphically, if you're familiar with the game Papers, Please, it takes its cue from that.

01:37:20.100 --> 01:37:22.120

Tom: It's certainly higher fidelity than that.

01:37:22.140 --> 01:37:23.640

Phil: Yeah, higher fidelity, certainly.

01:37:24.160 --> 01:37:25.280

Tom: But less charming.

01:37:25.300 --> 01:37:26.000

Phil: Less charming.

01:37:26.480 --> 01:37:34.080

Phil: And as a work simulator, you basically have to give these people different coffees based on what they ask for and their cues.

01:37:34.360 --> 01:37:38.000

Phil: And there's four or five different stages of that.

01:37:38.380 --> 01:37:42.080

Phil: And you're unlocking new recipes of coffees as you go.

01:37:42.700 --> 01:37:48.100

Phil: So the gameplay is memorization, pattern recognition.

01:37:48.860 --> 01:37:53.460

Phil: It's hard to screw up, or you can't screw up the actual implementation.

01:37:53.480 --> 01:37:59.300

Phil: It's more about screwing up the interpretation and memorization of what each character likes to drink.

01:38:00.180 --> 01:38:03.000

Tom: Or you can get the ingredients wrong or in the wrong order.

01:38:03.020 --> 01:38:03.520

Phil: That's true.

01:38:03.540 --> 01:38:07.260

Phil: And that's where I'd call the memorization component of it.

01:38:07.880 --> 01:38:16.120

Phil: It's not like there's an actual physical characteristic to it if you didn't press up at the right time or down at the right time, you know, or this or that.

01:38:18.980 --> 01:38:19.300

Phil: Yeah.

01:38:19.320 --> 01:38:22.700

Phil: So what were your impressions of the game and did you play it all the way through?

01:38:22.720 --> 01:38:48.820

Tom: Well, based on the numerous Indonesians on Sky who I know, I actually found it to be very Indonesian because many of them tend to be an interesting combination of the prevailing liberal expression in the Anglosphere.

01:38:49.180 --> 01:38:52.180

Tom: And we can't say the West because it is certainly different in France.

01:38:54.040 --> 01:39:07.120

Tom: Of everyone is really nice and polite and liberal in their toleration of others and that this should all be overtly done, etc.

01:39:07.140 --> 01:39:07.340

Tom: etc.

01:39:08.700 --> 01:39:25.160

Tom: But with in stark contrast, without necessarily having an aggressive issue with people who might diverge from this, much more conservative values on certain interactions.

01:39:25.180 --> 01:39:42.260

Tom: For instance, in this game which has very obvious anti-racist themes, there's an elf and a succubus dating much to the horror of their two families, as an example.

01:39:44.320 --> 01:39:56.900

Tom: But then you have the writer character who is, there's a certain scene there where everyone assumes she must be promiscuous, but in fact she isn't, and that's a good thing.

01:39:57.180 --> 01:40:25.500

Tom: And while it isn't explicitly suggesting that that's not necessarily a good thing, elsewhere there's also the astronaut, and learning how to date correctly, et cetera, et cetera, is very important, and I would argue presented in a more conservative manner than you would find in an American or English or Australian game with similar themes and setting.

01:40:27.620 --> 01:40:33.520

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's a very, correct me immediately if I'm wrong, it's a very politically correct game.

01:40:34.920 --> 01:40:37.200

Tom: Yep.

01:40:37.620 --> 01:41:03.300

Tom: But with that important difference, which is what I think gives it an Indonesian feel in that it is very socially liberal, yet in terms of its attitude and interaction with other people, yet in terms of its social values, it is also quite conservative, which makes for an interesting combination.

01:41:03.420 --> 01:41:28.000

Phil: It's a good combination because it has a realistic projection of these things, because otherwise you wouldn't have that conflict, you wouldn't have that fulcrum between even questioning whether something is right or wrong, because in our culture, you can't question these kinds of topics without being a complete racist, right?

01:41:28.240 --> 01:41:30.320

Phil: Or being judged as being a complete racist.

01:41:32.280 --> 01:41:37.260

Tom: I don't know, I think it depends on the games or stories.

01:41:37.280 --> 01:41:40.720

Tom: You would need to go on, get specific examples.

01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:53.620

Tom: And when you buy the same token, it's very easy to accuse political correctness of being racist as well in its approach to such matters.

01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:54.100

Phil: Of course.

01:41:54.420 --> 01:42:06.280

Tom: So I think the difference is by having two contrasting visions as the default, it automatically results in a greater level of nuance.

01:42:06.300 --> 01:42:06.880

Phil: Absolutely.

01:42:07.240 --> 01:42:18.800

Tom: But I think that nuance actually is there within either the right-wing vision of today or the liberal vision of today.

01:42:19.500 --> 01:42:29.000

Tom: It's just that it is ignored, other than as even as something to attack hypocritically, it's not really properly elaborated on.

01:42:29.020 --> 01:42:40.460

Tom: For instance, one of the critiques of things like, what's the term for conscious consent, is it?

01:42:40.480 --> 01:43:15.200

Tom: The thing where you're meant to constantly affirming consent in any affirming sexual interaction, or that regret in an interaction might constitute some form of sexual assault or rape, a common conservative critique of that is that this is hypocritical because it obviously is a position that is fundamentally viewing sex as a dangerous thing, yet simultaneously many people with those views are very sex positive elsewhere.

01:43:15.440 --> 01:43:33.780

Tom: But it's only approached as something to attack on the point of hypocrisy, not as an interesting juxtaposition of a single position that has a contradiction within it.

01:43:34.680 --> 01:43:42.260

Tom: That may indeed not be contradictory if you continue to explore that nuance, but it's only considered something to be attacked.

01:43:42.860 --> 01:43:47.960

Tom: And obviously, I don't mean that that's just a right-wing thing looking for that in the other side.

01:43:48.140 --> 01:43:49.800

Tom: Obviously that applies both ways.

01:43:50.200 --> 01:44:01.500

Tom: And then the only explanation for it is merely, well, this comes out of the sexual revolution without analyzing how that would actually lead to that.

01:44:01.740 --> 01:44:11.320

Tom: Beyond, well, actually people don't want to be promiscuous and everyone regrets sex that is not vindicated by society.

01:44:11.520 --> 01:44:13.740

Tom: Therefore, you have to adopt our views.

01:44:13.740 --> 01:44:19.280

Tom: And again, that's an example rather than meant to be highlighting one particular side.

01:44:21.280 --> 01:44:32.940

Tom: So I think if you are willing to take those, to explore these ideas in the Anglosphere, I think there is that level of nuance.

01:44:33.320 --> 01:44:43.000

Tom: But most critics and a lot of artists in how they want to express these things are less interested in doing that.

01:44:43.300 --> 01:45:08.660

Tom: If you were to take the same sort of content, the same sort of positions that are in Coffee Talk, and vulgarize them in the way that a lot of Anglosphere art does today, you would end up with something that is the same just with a slightly different juxtaposition of seemingly contradictory ideas to it.

01:45:09.020 --> 01:45:11.900

Phil: I mean, that is extremely well articulated.

01:45:12.020 --> 01:45:17.880

Phil: So we're talking about a visual novel game, single player, Coffee Talk.

01:45:18.040 --> 01:45:22.220

Phil: It's available on Windows, Mac, Switch, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

01:45:25.500 --> 01:45:47.280

Phil: Looking at the character of Neil, who is an alien dressed up like a NASA astronaut, who is basically coming down to the planet to impregnate as many women as he can, which is interesting, because he's not really a male or a female, but he's a...

01:45:48.520 --> 01:45:50.860

Tom: Or rather one, the correct one.

01:45:50.860 --> 01:45:51.240

Phil: Right.

01:45:52.100 --> 01:45:56.400

Tom: But to get there, he has to first work out how the mating rituals in humans works.

01:45:56.780 --> 01:46:02.980

Phil: So looking at the different characters though, I mean, you've got a young...

01:46:03.840 --> 01:47:01.880

Tom: And that, by the way, is a good example where if you are willing to not vulgarize something, just totally emphasizing contradictions, that it results in an interesting nuance because it reveals the potential problem with the prevailing view that is presented in the game, which is that obviously everyone should be tolerating one another, but ultimately it is a good thing, for example, that the writer is in fact not promiscuous, even though she seems to, yet simultaneously Neil is facing a problem where not having poor social skills, to be able to get to a point where he can successfully conform to this society's idea of sexual interaction, his only way to do that is by being promiscuous.

01:47:03.220 --> 01:47:12.680

Phil: Oh boy, you know, you could write a thousand essays on this game, but at the same time, I'm going to throw up there, is it not a simplistic kind of thing?

01:47:12.700 --> 01:47:23.080

Phil: Because you've got A, a plot line where you've got interracial relationship where both families disagree with the relationship.

01:47:24.180 --> 01:47:31.880

Phil: You've got Neil, who is someone who wants to be promiscuous, but is having trouble being promiscuous.

01:47:34.300 --> 01:47:42.340

Tom: Or wants to be monogamous, but can only become so through learning from promiscuous.

01:47:42.360 --> 01:47:54.660

Phil: And then you've got the only other major character arc that goes on is the father-daughter relationship where the daughter is some sort of pop star and he's looking out for her.

01:47:55.980 --> 01:47:58.900

Phil: So like these are very tired kinds of things.

01:47:58.920 --> 01:48:02.660

Phil: Other than Neils, the whole interracial thing, the whole...

01:48:02.700 --> 01:48:04.840

Tom: Which is also a big cliché.

01:48:05.580 --> 01:48:09.500

Tom: It's just usually more of a solely comical thing.

01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:10.320

Phil: Yeah, fair enough.

01:48:12.380 --> 01:48:15.460

Phil: But these are pretty tired tropes.

01:48:15.480 --> 01:48:26.440

Phil: So why would they be engaging to someone as, you know, engaged as you are in literature, such that you've read 425 books and 66 books this year?

01:48:28.940 --> 01:48:37.720

Tom: Well, as I said, I think being Indonesian offers an interesting take on those clichés.

01:48:38.220 --> 01:48:41.940

Tom: The only problem with the cliché is if the cliché is cliché.

01:48:42.820 --> 01:48:45.160

Phil: And there goes the Diadestiny again.

01:48:45.180 --> 01:48:46.400

Tom: Again, I just got excited.

01:48:46.420 --> 01:48:47.640

Phil: Another premature...

01:48:47.660 --> 01:48:48.880

Tom: That was up to a six.

01:48:50.180 --> 01:48:51.060

Tom: It's rising.

01:48:52.280 --> 01:48:55.000

Tom: Each role grows in force.

01:48:57.200 --> 01:48:58.240

Phil: Too much dialogue.

01:48:58.520 --> 01:49:00.420

Phil: The game has too much dialogue.

01:49:00.560 --> 01:49:01.560

Phil: The game was too long.

01:49:01.580 --> 01:49:03.160

Phil: That's my only criticisms of it.

01:49:04.120 --> 01:49:04.760

Phil: I thought that...

01:49:05.280 --> 01:49:05.940

Tom: I would agree.

01:49:06.200 --> 01:49:09.100

Phil: The coffee mechanic was good.

01:49:09.600 --> 01:49:11.000

Phil: I thought the characters were good.

01:49:12.120 --> 01:49:12.580

Phil: I thought...

01:49:12.620 --> 01:49:24.700

Tom: I also wish that you had, as far as the coffee mechanic is concerned, I think it would have been potentially more interesting and added a layer of puzzle solving.

01:49:25.740 --> 01:49:43.200

Tom: If you had a recipe book of the coffees that had everything unlocked in it to begin with, and from what the characters ask for, you have to figure out the relevant recipe rather than doing it through figuring out the ingredients.

01:49:43.220 --> 01:49:44.040

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

01:49:44.040 --> 01:49:49.240

Phil: There's only one right answer, and you basically unlock recipes as you go.

01:49:49.300 --> 01:49:52.740

Phil: It would have been good to basically go beyond that.

01:49:53.040 --> 01:50:03.680

Phil: And I think that whoever came up with the mechanic for this game got short-circuited or victimized by the people who were writing the visual novel component of it.

01:50:04.040 --> 01:50:13.460

Phil: And for future games, if you guys are listening, listen to your game mechanics guys a bit more and pull back on the visual novel.

01:50:13.500 --> 01:50:14.880

Phil: Anyone can write a visual novel.

01:50:15.400 --> 01:50:19.260

Phil: God knows, me and Tom have done it quite a few times, haven't published any of them yet.

01:50:20.720 --> 01:50:27.180

Phil: But the game mechanic was good and it could have been better explored.

01:50:27.460 --> 01:50:33.140

Phil: I think that it was deeper than the player actually gets to engage with it.

01:50:33.300 --> 01:50:43.080

Tom: There's also, for instance, a surprisingly effective coffee drawing minigame that you can do for latte art.

01:50:44.020 --> 01:50:47.640

Tom: But it's never actually needed for anything in the game.

01:50:47.680 --> 01:50:51.400

Phil: I won't say what most of my coffee art looked like, but you were...

01:50:52.520 --> 01:50:56.860

Tom: I think similar to the illustrations of your visual novel.

01:50:57.140 --> 01:50:57.860

Phil: Exactly.

01:50:58.660 --> 01:51:00.640

Phil: And you know what?

01:51:01.680 --> 01:51:05.100

Phil: The character art was great, and the extras are great in this game.

01:51:05.120 --> 01:51:07.640

Phil: They've got visual novels for every character.

01:51:08.500 --> 01:51:13.880

Phil: Just really, there's a lot of positivity to be said about this game.

01:51:14.700 --> 01:51:24.100

Tom: It's even got, for example, the short stories of the writer character in the game as well, that she publishes in the newspaper she works for.

01:51:24.120 --> 01:51:25.660

Phil: Yeah, which is great.

01:51:25.720 --> 01:51:28.540

Phil: So overall, it's a good game.

01:51:28.560 --> 01:51:29.820

Phil: It's worth experiencing.

01:51:30.700 --> 01:51:31.740

Phil: Could have been done better.

01:51:31.940 --> 01:51:38.420

Phil: It certainly enticed me enough to play through a space for The Unbound, the prologue for the other game.

01:51:39.080 --> 01:51:50.260

Phil: And anytime you've got a prolific or even burgeoning game developer coming from a country other than the usual suspects, they're worth looking at.

01:51:50.280 --> 01:51:58.400

Phil: And that's Toge or Toge, or Toge, or Togi Productions, T-O-G-E.

01:51:58.520 --> 01:52:00.440

Phil: Look them up.

01:52:00.460 --> 01:52:06.200

Phil: They are to be commended, I mean, for this level of quality, I feel.

01:52:07.540 --> 01:52:10.480

Tom: And none of my Indonesian friends had heard of it.

01:52:11.080 --> 01:52:12.420

Phil: Well, spread the news.

01:52:12.760 --> 01:52:13.540

Phil: Spread the news.

01:52:14.740 --> 01:52:15.240

Phil: Okay.

01:52:15.260 --> 01:52:17.080

Tom: We're ready for the dice roll of destiny.

01:52:17.360 --> 01:52:18.680

Tom: Finally the third.

01:52:18.700 --> 01:52:20.800

Phil: We'll see what you've got left after a six.

01:52:20.920 --> 01:52:22.000

Tom: And final roll.

01:52:22.060 --> 01:52:25.520

Tom: Yeah.

01:52:25.540 --> 01:52:30.540

Tom: Sadly, that was one time too many, and it's only a three for the third roll.

01:52:30.640 --> 01:52:31.460

Phil: Already spent.

01:52:31.580 --> 01:52:32.420

Phil: That's what I thought.

01:52:32.480 --> 01:52:32.780

Tom: Yeah.

01:52:34.480 --> 01:52:36.680

Phil: I gave the game a six and a half.

01:52:37.140 --> 01:52:39.500

Phil: So, for my own...

01:52:39.580 --> 01:52:42.220

Tom: That's a nine and a half out of 20.

01:52:42.320 --> 01:52:42.580

Phil: Yep.

01:52:42.920 --> 01:52:44.500

Phil: Which is about right, probably.

01:52:44.520 --> 01:52:45.340

Phil: Sad to say.

01:52:47.060 --> 01:52:49.000

Phil: So, with that, we've got to close out the show.

01:52:49.020 --> 01:52:50.880

Phil: We didn't even get to talk about Mind Scanners.

01:52:51.660 --> 01:52:53.660

Phil: We didn't get to talk about Mind Scanners.

01:52:54.520 --> 01:52:57.180

Tom: We forgot Mind Scanners somehow.

01:52:57.560 --> 01:53:01.920

Tom: There is some psychological analysis there.

01:53:01.980 --> 01:53:03.780

Phil: We didn't get to talk about Not Tonight.

01:53:04.380 --> 01:53:12.580

Phil: We didn't get to talk about Rocket League Splatoon 2, Game Dev Story, and many other things that we've been playing.

01:53:13.460 --> 01:53:14.880

Phil: So, unfortunately...

01:53:14.900 --> 01:53:17.520

Tom: Did you, in fact, have anything to say about Mind Scanners?

01:53:17.640 --> 01:53:18.300

Phil: I love it.

01:53:18.480 --> 01:53:19.480

Phil: I thought it was great.

01:53:19.600 --> 01:53:20.760

Phil: I particularly...

01:53:21.440 --> 01:53:32.380

Phil: We'll talk about it more at length, but I particularly like the first element of the game where you have to read the people's dialogue and then come up with the right answer from a multi-choice.

01:53:33.460 --> 01:53:38.580

Phil: As we all know from kind words, I'm an armchair psychologist.

01:53:38.860 --> 01:53:42.700

Phil: I did quite a few uni courses towards a psychology degree.

01:53:44.300 --> 01:53:45.280

Phil: And I...

01:53:45.500 --> 01:53:48.720

Tom: Sadly, this explains a lot about you, I'm afraid to say.

01:53:48.740 --> 01:53:49.520

Phil: Yeah, I know.

01:53:50.040 --> 01:53:58.960

Phil: And I nailed that component of it, but then when it came to the puzzle component of it, where you're trying to heal the people, I fried all their brains and failed.

01:53:59.940 --> 01:54:04.140

Tom: Sounds a lot like the experience of a psychologist.

01:54:04.160 --> 01:54:05.180

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

01:54:05.200 --> 01:54:14.960

Phil: You basically set people up with the false hope that they're cured when in fact you haven't done anything other than take their money and tell them after 50 minutes, well, I'm afraid that's all the time we've got today.

01:54:16.460 --> 01:54:18.880

Phil: But we can talk about that very soon.

01:54:20.380 --> 01:54:27.380

Phil: But Not Tonight is a game from Panic Bam, published by No More Robots.

01:54:27.440 --> 01:54:28.720

Phil: What did No More Robots do?

01:54:29.060 --> 01:54:30.560

Phil: They've done something else, haven't they?

01:54:32.400 --> 01:54:32.980

Tom: No idea.

01:54:33.280 --> 01:54:35.400

Phil: Oh, no, that's not Tonight.

01:54:35.900 --> 01:54:37.520

Phil: Actually, you're talking about Mind Scanners.

01:54:39.340 --> 01:54:40.940

Phil: And it's a beta.

01:54:41.100 --> 01:54:48.400

Tom: No More Robots have done other similarly dystopian indie titles, I believe.

01:54:49.420 --> 01:54:50.240

Phil: We can get into that.

01:54:50.240 --> 01:54:56.120

Phil: Mind Scanners, the beta, it's probably closed at this point anyway, so we've got plenty of time to talk about that in the future.

01:54:56.440 --> 01:55:01.120

Tom: They did say they may be releasing another demo at some point in the future.

01:55:01.120 --> 01:55:04.700

Tom: If they do, definitely go check it out.

01:55:04.720 --> 01:55:21.280

Tom: The only thing I would add to what Phil has said, because it is a very short beta, is that visually, I think it is probably the best Papers, Please influenced game yet.

01:55:21.680 --> 01:55:26.400

Tom: Not necessarily better than Papers, Please, sorry, but the best following on from Papers, Please.

01:55:26.840 --> 01:55:39.780

Tom: The characters you're healing all have really distinct personalities that comes through, not just in their dialogue as they're doing the ink block test and you're diagnosing them.

01:55:39.800 --> 01:55:40.000

Phil: Rorschach.

01:55:41.360 --> 01:55:45.720

Tom: But also, same thing, but also what they look like.

01:55:47.500 --> 01:55:58.080

Tom: And the music really gets the totalitarian vibes that lie latent in Vaporwave out of it really well.

01:55:58.760 --> 01:56:23.320

Tom: And the gameplay where you're healing them is really simple mini games where you're basically just either doing a tiny bit of puzzle solving, some more complicated machines like moving a wheel at the right speed or lining up certain frequencies on a spectrographic thing and things like that.

01:56:23.840 --> 01:56:33.340

Tom: And currently, that's a bit awkward because they don't really give you much instruction on how to use them properly.

01:56:33.560 --> 01:56:35.700

Phil: It's not just Phil Fogg then, okay, that's good.

01:56:35.900 --> 01:56:36.200

Tom: No.

01:56:36.600 --> 01:56:41.460

Tom: So you have to figure that out yourself, but the time limit per day is really limited.

01:56:41.460 --> 01:56:50.280

Tom: So if you're using a machine that you don't know how to use, that will probably eat up the entirety of your day as you're attempting to heal them.

01:56:50.300 --> 01:56:55.820

Tom: But again, that's very similar to the experience of a real psychologist.

01:56:56.060 --> 01:56:57.060

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

01:56:57.080 --> 01:57:11.400

Tom: All in all, all in all, I think it was, I think it's a really promising work simulator and certainly the one that has engrossed me the most since Papers, Please.

01:57:11.420 --> 01:57:29.020

Tom: And I really think the psychological aspect of it, one, makes the totalitarian setting so much more interesting, and two, really sets it apart from all other work simulators, including Papers, Please.

01:57:29.220 --> 01:57:47.520

Tom: But rather than the hook of Papers, Please being the high moral stakes in it, the personal stakes in this really push it over the edge and give it that something special that Papers, Please has, but no other work simulators as yet have quite achieved.

01:57:47.580 --> 01:57:48.240

Phil: Absolutely.

01:57:48.700 --> 01:57:50.760

Phil: Mind scanners is in beta.

01:57:50.780 --> 01:57:57.060

Phil: If you are lucky enough to act quickly and hook a copy of the game, get into it in a hurry.

01:57:57.160 --> 01:57:59.100

Phil: Developed by a company called The Outer Zone.

01:57:59.120 --> 01:58:02.500

Phil: I don't know anything about them, but it's a great game.

01:58:02.700 --> 01:58:15.300

Phil: I still think that Not Tonight is better in some ways, but Mind Scanners is superior in a very special way, and certainly worthy of quick examination.

01:58:15.400 --> 01:58:20.740

Phil: But as I said, it's in beta now, so we'll be able to talk about that in great detail in the future.

01:58:20.900 --> 01:58:50.580

Tom: The last thing I will add on Mind Scanners, just again on the interaction between the totalitarian setting and the psychology, is something humorous I've noticed so far, and I wonder will be worked into the plot, or is merely a coincidence, is that all the characters who are behaving deviantly are the ones who are insane, in that if you do not cure them of their insanity, then they will do something bad.

01:58:50.780 --> 01:59:02.600

Tom: Whereas all the ones who are not behaving deviantly, even if they have insane ideas, are the sane ones who you can safely allow to go about their business with their personality unaffected.

01:59:02.940 --> 01:59:10.760

Phil: Which for Phil Fogg is awesome, because I can go through these and go, yeah, that person's insane.

01:59:10.780 --> 01:59:12.600

Phil: No, that person's not insane.

01:59:12.840 --> 01:59:13.640

Phil: But you know what?

01:59:13.680 --> 01:59:23.840

Phil: Every time I declared someone sane, I was waiting for the game to come back and swat me, because, you know, it's an authoritarian world.

01:59:23.940 --> 01:59:27.000

Phil: So, you know, here's someone who's thinking independently.

01:59:27.020 --> 01:59:30.360

Phil: Yeah, they're slightly off-kilter, but you know what?

01:59:30.380 --> 01:59:31.040

Phil: They're sane.

01:59:31.440 --> 01:59:34.040

Phil: And I kept waiting for the game to hit me.

01:59:35.080 --> 01:59:56.680

Phil: But there was a couple of characters there, like the Catwoman, without a spoiler, where I took it to quite the brink, where it's like, no, you know, this person's, yeah, it's a little bit weird, but yeah, you know, and ultimately my acceptance of her weirdness worked against me.

01:59:58.000 --> 02:00:00.020

Tom: Well, you'll see the other interesting thing about...

02:00:00.040 --> 02:00:12.540

Tom: I think one of the things that I like about that is is that most of the deviant behavior was also the natural behavior of what one might expect a totalitarian society to be doing.

02:00:12.560 --> 02:00:13.320

Phil: Yes, yeah.

02:00:13.680 --> 02:00:18.000

Phil: No, it's a great beta, let's hope they turn it into a great game.

02:00:18.780 --> 02:00:27.100

Phil: For the next episode, homework for the listeners is to go out and play Not Tonight, another work simulator.

02:00:28.760 --> 02:00:37.480

Phil: I've got a code from you for the PC, I loved it so much I went out and bought it for the Switch, and I've got various things to say about that.

02:00:38.500 --> 02:00:49.660

Phil: But before we close out the show entirely, is there any trademark banter you want to hit on, just as a last little treat for our listeners?

02:00:50.420 --> 02:00:54.040

Tom: Well, I recently tried for the first time Mountain Dew.

02:00:57.240 --> 02:00:57.500

Tom: What?

02:00:57.520 --> 02:01:13.340

Tom: Well, Mountain Dew, unlike in America gaming circles, at least in my lifetime, it's not like Sprite or Fanta or 7-Up or Coca-Cola, it's an obscure thing like Dr Pepper.

02:01:13.360 --> 02:01:16.460

Phil: Yeah, but over the last four years, you can buy Mountain Dew in the stores.

02:01:16.780 --> 02:01:20.560

Phil: They don't sell diet Mountain Dew, which is the real thing.

02:01:21.200 --> 02:01:23.740

Phil: They sell the normal crap Mountain Dew.

02:01:23.760 --> 02:01:30.740

Tom: Well, I also rarely drink soft drinks, particularly the last several years.

02:01:30.760 --> 02:01:38.880

Phil: Mountain Dew also has a line called Code Red, which is disgusting, but also simultaneously addictive.

02:01:40.180 --> 02:01:41.660

Tom: And I've got to ask you a question.

02:01:41.680 --> 02:01:46.220

Tom: It said energize on the packaging spelt correctly as well.

02:01:46.240 --> 02:01:52.500

Tom: So full credit to Mountain Dew for not engaging in cultural imperialism.

02:01:54.040 --> 02:01:57.700

Phil: And energize is a different strain of Mountain Dew.

02:01:58.040 --> 02:01:58.960

Tom: That's what I was asking.

02:01:58.980 --> 02:02:01.680

Tom: So this is in fact different to the standard Mountain Dew.

02:02:01.700 --> 02:02:04.720

Phil: This is the energy drink version of it.

02:02:05.520 --> 02:02:16.640

Tom: Because I found it as a result of that to be superior to what I imagine Mountain Dew would be like, not that I've tried it, because it was not disgustingly sweet.

02:02:17.700 --> 02:02:28.920

Tom: It was very limey and actually had a little bit of acidity to it and did not overpower the palate with sugar in a way that many soft drinks do.

02:02:28.940 --> 02:02:37.700

Phil: Traditional Mountain Dew has a flat salty kind of taste to it, more than a sweet.

02:02:38.380 --> 02:02:45.740

Phil: And it's liked by gamers because before energy drinks, Mountain Dew had the highest level of caffeine in it.

02:02:48.460 --> 02:02:56.420

Tom: But that wasn't enough, so they've now gone to the next level.

02:02:56.460 --> 02:03:05.900

Phil: I'm not going to misspeak here in terms of the milligrams of caffeine, but Mountain Dew used to be something that kept me alive, that's for sure.

02:03:06.960 --> 02:03:13.520

Phil: Okay, well with that, Tom Towers, thank you for joining us on episode 133 of The Game Under Podcast.

02:03:13.880 --> 02:03:16.320

Phil: We went through some great games tonight.

02:03:16.400 --> 02:03:21.960

Phil: We talked about Cyber Punk 2077, The Medium, Mind Scanners, Space Court.

02:03:22.240 --> 02:03:23.120

Phil: Am I missing anything?

02:03:23.120 --> 02:03:23.840

Phil: Coffee Talk.

02:03:25.540 --> 02:03:30.800

Phil: All games, I think we would say, if we can't recommend them, they're at least worth playing if you've got the right.

02:03:30.840 --> 02:03:32.460

Tom: And many of them we would recommend.

02:03:35.240 --> 02:03:36.800

Phil: The Medium, still on the fence.

02:03:39.540 --> 02:03:41.440

Tom: But a potentially promising start.

02:03:41.460 --> 02:03:41.920

Phil: Definitely.

02:03:43.500 --> 02:03:49.380

Tom: But we will end with a random poem by Jose Martin.

02:03:49.400 --> 02:03:50.020

Phil: Okay, here we go.

02:03:50.040 --> 02:03:50.820

Phil: One of his limericks.

02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:56.300

Tom: I'll let the audience judge whether this is a Mark Twain style aphorism.

02:03:56.320 --> 02:04:00.940

Phil: There was a young lady from Cuba who had an enormously large tuba.

02:04:00.960 --> 02:04:01.020

Tom: Tuba.

02:04:01.260 --> 02:04:01.900

Tom: Tuba.

02:04:02.100 --> 02:04:03.640

Phil: When you blew in one end...

02:04:03.660 --> 02:04:06.820

Phil: That's all I can come up with, sorry.

02:04:09.400 --> 02:04:10.460

Phil: You could always depend...

02:04:12.100 --> 02:04:13.900

Tom: No, her whole body would bend.

02:04:14.300 --> 02:04:16.840

Phil: And you'd end up with a massive tumor.

02:04:17.160 --> 02:04:18.140

Phil: It's not a tumor.

02:04:19.320 --> 02:04:20.690

Tom: No, no, that...

02:04:20.690 --> 02:04:21.280

Tom: no.

02:04:22.260 --> 02:04:24.460

Tom: You ruined it at the ending there, I'm afraid to say.

02:04:26.460 --> 02:04:33.500

Tom: In a pitch dark alley where I stroll in darkness, I raise my eyes and see a church, stiff standing and remote.

02:04:34.120 --> 02:04:36.760

Tom: Is there some mystery, some power, revelation?

02:04:37.080 --> 02:04:39.520

Tom: Are you obliged my knee to genuflect?

02:04:39.880 --> 02:04:40.960

Tom: I wonder what it is.

02:04:41.500 --> 02:04:45.340

Tom: Night shimmers, a worm nibbles at the tendrils of a vine.

02:04:45.660 --> 02:04:49.860

Tom: Calling to autumn, the vein in sullen, cicada sings its songs.

02:04:50.540 --> 02:04:52.660

Tom: A pair is singing, intent on both.

02:04:53.040 --> 02:04:57.960

Tom: I raise my eyes and see that the church of my stroll has the form of an owl.

02:04:59.460 --> 02:05:02.420

Phil: So that sounds to me like someone who's a closeted homosexual.

02:05:03.900 --> 02:05:04.860

Phil: He looks towards the...

02:05:05.120 --> 02:05:06.180

Tom: Like Mark Twain.

02:05:07.820 --> 02:05:08.980

Tom: It's one of the better poems.

02:05:09.000 --> 02:05:18.380

Tom: The point is merely that I don't think that fits the description of aphoristic poetry of the Mark Twain poem.

02:05:18.400 --> 02:05:18.740

Phil: That's true.

02:05:18.760 --> 02:05:20.440

Phil: I couldn't figure out the whole owl thing.

02:05:21.300 --> 02:05:26.180

Phil: Okay, well thanks for that and we'll listen to you next time.

02:05:26.400 --> 02:05:27.600

Phil: But in opposite.

02:05:29.820 --> 02:05:30.780

Phil: I'm recording now.

02:05:31.720 --> 02:05:33.460

Phil: This is where I'm starting the recording.

02:05:35.100 --> 02:05:36.160

Phil: Hoo hoo!

02:05:36.180 --> 02:05:40.700

Phil: It's the special Christmas episode of The Game Under Podcast.

02:05:42.540 --> 02:05:44.000

Phil: Can you hear the music that I'm hearing?

02:05:44.520 --> 02:05:44.800

Tom: No.

02:05:47.740 --> 02:05:49.260

Phil: Hopefully it's playing somewhere.

02:05:51.020 --> 02:05:51.680

Tom: In your head.

02:05:54.780 --> 02:05:55.680

Phil: Oh, it's so wonderful.

02:05:56.800 --> 02:05:58.180

Phil: Are you familiar with the trigger?

Game Under Podcast 132

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction
0:00:24 Jordan Aired

First Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:11:25 Super Mario 3D All-Stars for Switch

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
0:21:25 Oculus Quest 2
1:08:15 Dirt Rally VR
1:20:00 Tom's Favorite Console of All Time

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
1:32:45 Space Channel 5 VR Kinda Funky News

Trademark Banter
1:43:26 2003 November Top 5 NPD!

Final Impressions - Tom and Phil
1:48:16 One Night Stand

Off-Topic Final Impressions - Tom Towers
2:02:24 We the Living by Ayn Rand

Transcipt

Tom: Hello and welcome to episode 132 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:17.440

Tom: My name is Tom Towers, and I am joined today by Phil Fogg.

00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.560

Phil: Phil Fogg, hello, welcome.

00:00:19.580 --> 00:00:22.680

Phil: Thank you, Tom, for the welcome, hello listeners.

00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:28.500

Tom: And I don't know if you noticed, but on the site, the Jordan B.

00:00:28.580 --> 00:00:32.320

Tom: Peterson Trilogy has now been completed.

00:00:34.580 --> 00:00:38.460

Phil: Now, I was going to ask you, what was the impetus for writing?

00:00:38.480 --> 00:00:39.860

Phil: Who is this Jordan B.

00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:47.440

Phil: Peterson, and what was the impetus for writing this three-part series about his writing?

00:00:47.700 --> 00:00:59.900

Tom: Well, he is, I believe, a Canadian clinical psychologist who became famous for some erroneous commentary on a hate speech bill in Canada.

00:01:00.080 --> 00:01:10.900

Tom: And before this blew up, due to the random shit that I watch on YouTube, I had actually become familiar with his YouTube content.

00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:18.800

Tom: So it was hilarious and quite the ride to see him blow up in the way he did.

00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:27.060

Tom: He became a highly controversial figure for many reasons, some of which are fair and some of which are perhaps not so fair.

00:01:27.880 --> 00:01:31.180

Tom: But it was quite an amusing story.

00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:51.940

Tom: And he's worth writing about, I think, because when you go back to his first book, Maps of Meaning, and also his, and make sure if you have any interest in him, find the clips of him on YouTube from his community television days where he is wearing a fedora as an example.

00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:55.180

Phil: It's always a good start, always a good start.

00:01:55.940 --> 00:01:57.620

Tom: Lots of other hilarious stuff.

00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:02.080

Tom: He is clearly believes himself to be a prophet.

00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:16.120

Tom: And I have not come across any prophet, no matter how steeped in grifting their prophecy is that is not a tremendously entertaining and fascinating figure.

00:02:16.720 --> 00:02:18.600

Phil: You worked for Notch, you know.

00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:21.680

Phil: You talk about prophets, how many prophets are there?

00:02:21.700 --> 00:02:21.960

Phil: I mean...

00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:23.880

Tom: Prophets are a dime a dozen.

00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:26.720

Tom: I think most people are prophets.

00:02:26.720 --> 00:02:32.920

Tom: It's just that some people are willing to be openly prophets in the public eye.

00:02:33.920 --> 00:02:35.140

Phil: Don't you mean truly?

00:02:35.320 --> 00:02:37.000

Phil: What about true prophets though?

00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:40.900

Phil: True prophets are just basically very good at observation.

00:02:41.160 --> 00:02:48.120

Tom: Well, a true prophet is just a prophet who is good, just as most people are artists, but most people aren't necessarily good artists.

00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:54.920

Phil: Okay, so you close out this discussion of Jordan Peterson.

00:02:55.360 --> 00:03:00.520

Tom: With a comparison to another prophet, the rapper Lil B.

00:03:01.300 --> 00:03:02.340

Phil: I've heard of Lil B.

00:03:02.780 --> 00:03:06.840

Tom: Yes, and he has written his own self-help book.

00:03:06.880 --> 00:03:12.120

Tom: And Jordan Peterson's most famous book is 12 Rules for Life, a self-help book.

00:03:12.140 --> 00:03:17.200

Tom: And this was, though I have seen a lot of infomercials for self-help books.

00:03:17.200 --> 00:03:21.780

Tom: I've never actually read a self-help book before I read Jordan Peterson.

00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:25.440

Tom: So I thought I should read another self-help book for comparison.

00:03:25.920 --> 00:03:33.260

Tom: And what better self-help book than Taking Over by Imposing the Positive by Lil B.

00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:37.420

Phil: Is it widely available?

00:03:37.900 --> 00:03:40.920

Phil: I mean, is this his first foray into self-help?

00:03:41.440 --> 00:03:42.940

Tom: Lil B or Jordan Peterson?

00:03:43.540 --> 00:03:44.180

Phil: Lil B.

00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:55.940

Tom: I think this is the, well, much of his music and persona is certainly about positivity and self-actualization in many ways.

00:03:56.980 --> 00:04:01.120

Tom: But I believe this is his only self-help book that he has written.

00:04:01.880 --> 00:04:02.600

Phil: It's puzzling.

00:04:03.580 --> 00:04:05.820

Tom: And I would in fact recommend it.

00:04:05.820 --> 00:04:37.580

Tom: And I learned something from it in fact, and from reading the Jordan Peterson books, because there is an idea out there that things like conspiracy theories essentially a coping mechanism in which you, when confronted with forces, not forces, sorry, events that are out of anyone's control, people will invent a story that turns these events into being within people's control.

00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:45.040

Tom: And for me, I always found that to be a little bit weird because conspiracy theories are usually batshit crazy.

00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:48.840

Tom: And if they were true, I'm not sure in what way they would be at all comforting.

00:04:49.080 --> 00:05:24.540

Tom: But in reading, taking over the positive and 12 rules for life and comparing the two, I can actually kind of see where this may actually be true because in 12 rules for life, everything comes back to essentially being caused by those pesky cultural Marxists who were out there to destroy Western civilization in the most banal and seemingly unrelated ways to politics that you could think of, such as school playground dynamics.

00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:30.720

Tom: And certainly one can make an argument that politics obviously influences public education and so on and so forth.

00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:40.820

Tom: But to be directly attacking it along those lines in the context of it being a cultural Marxist plot in a self-help book is a little bizarre.

00:05:40.840 --> 00:05:48.260

Tom: And the whole conceit of the book, as you can tell from the title, 12 Rules for Life, what is a full title?

00:05:48.280 --> 00:05:54.100

Tom: Something to do with order taking over chaos, protecting yourself from chaos rather.

00:05:55.440 --> 00:06:09.280

Tom: And you then compare that to Lil B's book where you are confronted with banal everyday problems like dealing with arachnophobia, growing up-

00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:10.500

Phil: Everyday problems, yes.

00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:16.900

Tom: Growing up without a father and having to deal with these things when they aren't caused by fucking cultural Marxists.

00:06:17.020 --> 00:06:30.420

Tom: And it's actually a significantly more disturbing vision than the world, than the prophet who is meant to be saving you from the chaotic, despairing universe that he's attempting to present you with.

00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:42.040

Phil: All right, well, this under conspiracy theories in terms of people accepting them and embracing them because they provide an answer for something that they otherwise cannot understand.

00:06:42.060 --> 00:06:45.580

Phil: That's pretty, that's well-worn territory.

00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:55.820

Phil: I mean, it came up with the JFK assassination, people just not being able to comprehend how the leader of the free world, end quote, could be just killed by one person.

00:06:56.260 --> 00:06:57.600

Phil: And so the conspiracy theories come up.

00:06:57.620 --> 00:07:00.280

Tom: The end quote there is because JFK isn't really dead, by the way.

00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:05.720

Phil: So that's pretty, you know, well-worn territory.

00:07:06.200 --> 00:07:15.080

Phil: And, you know, to a degree in talking about religion, you know, some people would say that, you know, Occam's razor just is too obvious.

00:07:15.100 --> 00:07:20.100

Phil: And that's why you've got to come up with concepts of either creation or of evolution.

00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:27.340

Phil: You know, it's, so you can't just have something, something as important as human life couldn't have just randomly happened.

00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:29.060

Phil: Yeah, yeah, it can't be arbitrary.

00:07:29.080 --> 00:07:32.060

Phil: There has to be some, you know, deeper meaning.

00:07:32.740 --> 00:07:44.020

Phil: So in a sense, you know, faith, be it science or religious, is also a conspiracy theory, if you will, if you want to go that far.

00:07:44.260 --> 00:07:53.400

Tom: Absolutely, and certainly, you can take natural selection, you can interpret, and you can also do this with religion, with religion as well.

00:07:53.420 --> 00:07:59.380

Tom: You can interpret natural selection in a totally arbitrary manner, and it is totally open to that.

00:07:59.660 --> 00:08:05.980

Tom: But there sure are a hell of a lot of supposedly, totally rational scientists.

00:08:06.620 --> 00:08:25.920

Tom: There's entire fields based on this that are entirely about coming up with reasons to turn natural selection into a totally arbitrarily thing, where everything has a rational and logical explanation for why things have turned out as they are.

00:08:27.100 --> 00:08:34.960

Phil: If you want to talk about creative design and evolution, the thing is that I said earlier, puzzling, I picked up this pen.

00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:36.660

Phil: It's a government-issued pen, right?

00:08:36.740 --> 00:08:39.600

Phil: It was given to me for free by a government somehow.

00:08:40.540 --> 00:08:42.540

Phil: It's fallen apart in my hands.

00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.320

Phil: I've just counted this 13 parts to this pen.

00:08:47.020 --> 00:08:59.300

Phil: I mean, the person who designed this must have been extremely bored, or just had a complete disregard for like plastic and rubber and like, you know, the use of it.

00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:01.460

Phil: Why has it got so many pieces?

00:09:01.920 --> 00:09:04.720

Phil: 13 pieces in a in a in a biro.

00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:08.860

Tom: I think, apropos of what we're discussing, maybe no one designed it.

00:09:09.300 --> 00:09:10.500

Phil: Maybe no, it just happened.

00:09:10.880 --> 00:09:13.960

Tom: And that's why it is has turned out as it has turned out.

00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:15.960

Phil: It's a horrible, horrible pen.

00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:20.620

Phil: So go to game under dot net to to read that.

00:09:20.640 --> 00:09:22.540

Phil: There's a link to it from the front page.

00:09:22.640 --> 00:09:23.600

Phil: Game under dot net.

00:09:23.780 --> 00:09:25.540

Phil: Don't go to gam under dot net.

00:09:26.660 --> 00:09:27.560

Phil: I did earlier.

00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:28.220

Phil: It does not.

00:09:28.300 --> 00:09:30.160

Phil: There's no there's no website there.

00:09:30.180 --> 00:09:31.380

Phil: No one owns gam under.

00:09:31.880 --> 00:09:33.680

Tom: So time for you to buy that domain.

00:09:34.020 --> 00:09:37.280

Phil: Probably, probably buy a snap that one up while I can.

00:09:37.920 --> 00:09:45.520

Phil: Okay, well in terms of anything else you wanted to talk about before we get into the hot games of the week and the hot news of the week.

00:09:45.540 --> 00:09:47.900

Tom: Well, he does apparently have a new book coming.

00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:50.760

Tom: And I think that it was clearly timed.

00:09:51.680 --> 00:09:56.740

Tom: It was announced just after I had published the final part of the trilogy.

00:09:56.760 --> 00:10:00.380

Tom: So I think he's trying to cash in on game under's fame.

00:10:00.580 --> 00:10:05.960

Tom: And judging by the title, which is, and we've got...

00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:06.940

Phil: Just look it up, get it right...

00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:06.940

Tom: .

00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:09.200

Tom: On Air Research, we want to get this accurate.

00:10:09.220 --> 00:10:13.180

Tom: One of his rules for life is to be precise in your speech.

00:10:13.700 --> 00:10:17.080

Tom: So I've got to be very careful in what I say here and get the title right.

00:10:17.400 --> 00:10:30.160

Tom: The next book, as if it is a response to some of my criticisms in those articles, is called Beyond Order, 12 More Rules for Life.

00:10:30.180 --> 00:10:37.660

Tom: And I believe it is partially in response to criticism aimed at his book.

00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:45.720

Tom: And it is in fact about being more creative in a potentially stifling order, I believe, something along those lines.

00:10:46.460 --> 00:10:49.220

Phil: You know, so now he's got 24 rules for life?

00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:49.860

Tom: Yes, he does.

00:10:51.300 --> 00:11:04.420

Tom: And we should add that these 24 rules for life are based on his original 42 rules for life, when he was spreading the message on the open question and answer website Queera.

00:11:05.620 --> 00:11:10.140

Phil: Quora, yeah, so that's 64 life lessons?

00:11:10.400 --> 00:11:20.200

Tom: No, I think there's 42 in total, but I think this is actually whittled down from 72 he originally had, but he posted 42 on Quora.

00:11:21.300 --> 00:11:23.500

Phil: Because, yeah, 64 would have been cool.

00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:31.860

Phil: But anyway, speaking of N64, I'll be talking about Super Mario All-Stars for Switch later in this episode.

00:11:31.880 --> 00:11:33.020

Tom: Why don't you talk about it now?

00:11:33.940 --> 00:11:34.460

Phil: Must I?

00:11:34.620 --> 00:11:35.400

Tom: Yes, you must.

00:11:36.020 --> 00:11:36.560

Phil: Okay.

00:11:36.640 --> 00:11:40.460

Phil: Well, I got it for Switch for myself for Christmas, right?

00:11:42.420 --> 00:11:45.900

Phil: The case did not have any cellophane on it at all, right?

00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:52.880

Phil: So I'm not supposed to have opened this until Christmas, because it's supposed to be wrapped and put under a tree, etc.

00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:54.260

Phil: Yep.

00:11:54.280 --> 00:11:55.380

Phil: I could die between now and then.

00:11:55.400 --> 00:11:56.480

Phil: I don't see the point in this.

00:11:57.140 --> 00:12:00.560

Phil: But it came from the retailer without any cellophane on it.

00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:03.420

Phil: And so I'm like, wow, they're not even trying anymore.

00:12:03.420 --> 00:12:05.440

Phil: You know, there's no manual.

00:12:05.460 --> 00:12:06.920

Phil: Now there's no cellophane around it.

00:12:06.940 --> 00:12:07.340

Phil: Okay.

00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:08.920

Phil: So I just opened it.

00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:19.180

Phil: I put in my copy of Super Mario Odyssey and closed it back up, because no one's going to notice the difference.

00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:20.040

Phil: It's Mario games.

00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:22.800

Phil: And I have all these games already.

00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:25.500

Phil: So if anyone walks by the TV and goes, what's that?

00:12:25.520 --> 00:12:26.880

Phil: I'll just say, it's Mario, you know.

00:12:27.400 --> 00:12:28.340

Tom: Mario Odyssey.

00:12:28.800 --> 00:12:29.140

Phil: Yeah.

00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:29.520

Phil: Yeah.

00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:31.640

Tom: So can you believe in modern graphics?

00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:34.200

Phil: Well, yes.

00:12:34.280 --> 00:12:56.080

Phil: And now the so it basically has Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy One, the original Galaxy, plus the soundtracks for all three, which is pretty cool because some of them have only been released to like Nintendo Club members in Japan in the past.

00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:58.360

Tom: How do you access the soundtracks?

00:12:59.120 --> 00:12:59.920

Phil: On the thing.

00:13:00.260 --> 00:13:01.060

Phil: It's on the thing.

00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:05.500

Phil: And I think there's a way to rip them off as well.

00:13:05.520 --> 00:13:08.280

Phil: It's not only the soundtrack, but it's also all the sound effects.

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.380

Phil: So it's pretty, pretty exhaustive.

00:13:12.420 --> 00:13:15.540

Tom: So there's a lot of soundboard material for you there.

00:13:16.060 --> 00:13:16.460

Phil: Yeah.

00:13:16.660 --> 00:13:17.040

Phil: Yeah.

00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:18.800

Phil: And that's true.

00:13:18.860 --> 00:13:25.600

Phil: And they have a player mode, so that you can just go into the player mode and just put it down and listen to it that way.

00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:30.060

Phil: So it's not chewing up your battery for screen time.

00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:32.500

Phil: So I played them in order.

00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:34.600

Phil: I've just dabbled in each one of them.

00:13:35.780 --> 00:13:45.640

Phil: Super Mario 64 basically looks like the high res versions that have been released on the web by fans.

00:13:47.500 --> 00:13:49.140

Phil: They haven't changed the graphics or anything.

00:13:49.160 --> 00:13:50.360

Phil: It's just very, very clear.

00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:56.680

Phil: And they have actually done some tricks to it and some slight improvements.

00:13:57.760 --> 00:14:04.420

Phil: But ultimately, it's just Super Mario 64, but with no load times.

00:14:04.420 --> 00:14:07.740

Phil: Well, there was hardly any load times before anyway, because it was also on a cartridge.

00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:10.020

Phil: But just really clear visuals.

00:14:11.900 --> 00:14:15.220

Phil: And yeah, it's great with a pro controller.

00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:19.000

Phil: Using the Switch handheld, it's okay.

00:14:19.820 --> 00:14:28.340

Phil: Certainly better than playing Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario Galaxy in the handheld mode, which is really disappointing.

00:14:29.160 --> 00:14:32.600

Phil: So I've been mostly using the pro controllers for those.

00:14:34.140 --> 00:14:43.400

Phil: Super Mario Sunshine, it is actually a much better play experience than off of the GameCube because you are seeing it in widescreen as opposed to 4.3.

00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:51.200

Phil: And that's much better suited for that game because it was all about discovery and verticality.

00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:59.200

Phil: And so being able to see it in widescreen enables you to see more of the actual levels.

00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:02.040

Phil: So then just convert it from 4.3 to widescreen.

00:15:02.060 --> 00:15:06.480

Phil: You can actually see more than what you would have seen in the original game.

00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:16.740

Phil: And in this case, you do benefit from load times as you do with the Galaxy game because it's on cartridge as opposed to disc.

00:15:18.040 --> 00:15:21.800

Phil: Visually, Super Mario Sunshine looks good, I'd say.

00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.140

Phil: Certainly better than on the GameCube.

00:15:24.660 --> 00:15:30.480

Phil: There's no fog or stuttering or any sort of issues whatsoever.

00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:33.800

Phil: Yeah, it looks good and it plays well.

00:15:33.820 --> 00:15:38.760

Phil: So I'm really hopeful about that because I've never actually completed Sunshine.

00:15:39.560 --> 00:15:48.240

Phil: And then Galaxy, I thought it was gonna be the least valuable in the whole set because I absolutely loved it on the Wii and played it to death.

00:15:48.980 --> 00:15:52.300

Phil: It's actually surprising how much I didn't remember about that game.

00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:56.120

Phil: I'm really quite enjoying it.

00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:05.460

Phil: However, as you can imagine, the things that you used the remote for in the original are disastrous in this version.

00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:11.120

Phil: So you know how you're used to wave the Wii mode around so you could collect the star bits?

00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:12.680

Tom: Yep.

00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:14.460

Phil: And shoot the star bits as well.

00:16:15.540 --> 00:16:20.500

Phil: Either to shoot them at enemies or to feed those, what are those things called?

00:16:20.520 --> 00:16:21.160

Phil: Glug glugs.

00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:24.120

Phil: That's not what they're called.

00:16:24.140 --> 00:16:25.240

Phil: They're called something else.

00:16:25.260 --> 00:16:32.260

Phil: But anyway, in handheld mode, it's okay, but you have to touch the screen to do all of that.

00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:36.080

Phil: So you have to touch the screen to aim it and collect.

00:16:36.800 --> 00:16:46.740

Phil: And so while you're holding the face buttons and the analog sticks, you've actually got to take your hand off of them to move around on screen, which is not good.

00:16:47.160 --> 00:16:47.860

Tom: That's all good?

00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.520

Phil: But it is still slightly better than when you're playing it in docked mode.

00:16:53.340 --> 00:17:06.040

Phil: Because in docked mode, you have to pull down the R trigger, which is the top trigger, and then use the left analog stick to aim and waggle around.

00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:16.160

Phil: So basically, essentially you have to stop moving to aim that thing and collect star bits.

00:17:17.060 --> 00:17:21.880

Phil: Yeah, I was really quite disappointed with the way that they handled that.

00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:25.740

Phil: And there's very little or no trimming, actually.

00:17:26.600 --> 00:17:35.740

Tom: Can you play Super Mario Galaxy using the Joy-Cons detached as if they were Wiimotes for motion control?

00:17:35.740 --> 00:17:37.700

Phil: Yeah, that's actually an excellent point.

00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:38.720

Phil: You can do it that way.

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:45.840

Phil: And then you can also use your Pro Controller to point at the screen.

00:17:48.100 --> 00:17:51.940

Phil: Even though there's nothing, they're doing it all by tilt, basically.

00:17:52.340 --> 00:17:57.560

Phil: So there's nothing on the front of the Pro Controller that actually pointed the screen that it's picking up on.

00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:11.400

Phil: So that's probably the better way to handle it in docked mode, is to basically use tilt controls to replicate what you'd be doing with a Wiimote.

00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:16.600

Tom: And of course, it must look incredible in HD.

00:18:17.260 --> 00:18:18.700

Phil: Yes, it does, it does.

00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:21.320

Phil: There's no doubt about that.

00:18:21.340 --> 00:18:26.560

Phil: It does look exceptionally better than using component cables on a Wii U, I'm sorry, on a Wii.

00:18:28.560 --> 00:18:41.120

Phil: The graphics really hold up, but that's what you'd expect from Nintendo's games, because they typically have an art style that doesn't age as much as photorealism.

00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.920

Tom: And Super Mario Galaxy is one of the best looking games ever, easily.

00:18:46.460 --> 00:18:48.280

Phil: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:18:48.460 --> 00:18:55.700

Phil: So yeah, but in terms of the bosses and everything, it is a pretty basic game, even for someone like me.

00:18:55.800 --> 00:18:59.880

Phil: So it's more the fun of figuring out how to get around.

00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:06.700

Phil: Traveling around on the planetoids is an absolute joy, and it's such a high quality game.

00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:13.840

Phil: You see the planetoids in the background, knowing that you're gonna be getting to them eventually as you fly around.

00:19:13.860 --> 00:19:19.720

Phil: And when you get there, it's just a really, that part of it is a lot of fun.

00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:27.060

Phil: But of course, the collection, in terms of its dressing, there's no Super Mario Galaxy 2, okay, whatever.

00:19:27.080 --> 00:19:31.800

Phil: There's no historical stuff.

00:19:32.120 --> 00:19:36.760

Phil: They have a one-pager at the start of each game that says this game was released in 1997.

00:19:36.780 --> 00:19:43.000

Phil: Odyssey was the first game to use a full orchestra.

00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:44.340

Phil: And that's basically it.

00:19:44.360 --> 00:19:46.580

Phil: There's no artwork to unlock.

00:19:46.600 --> 00:19:48.520

Phil: There's no director's commentary.

00:19:48.540 --> 00:19:52.000

Phil: There's no interviews or other materials that have been included.

00:19:52.680 --> 00:20:02.240

Phil: And this is from the celebration of Mario's 35th anniversary, which is perhaps fitting because it's not a major milestone.

00:20:02.280 --> 00:20:08.960

Phil: It's just a way to repackage some of this stuff and give it back to fans of the game.

00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:15.420

Phil: So maybe when Mario's on 4-0, they'll do something more complete.

00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:18.080

Phil: Why did I buy it?

00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:20.940

Phil: I bought it because it is only available for a limited amount of time.

00:20:22.080 --> 00:20:36.440

Phil: And I just knew that the work they'd done on Super Mario Sunshine was going to make it unique enough for me to want and to want to play, because once these things are no longer available, obviously the price on them is going to go irrationally high.

00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:38.300

Tom: Absolutely.

00:20:39.460 --> 00:20:45.580

Phil: That's pretty much all I had to say about Super Mario All-Stars for Switch.

00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:51.040

Phil: I certainly would recommend it if even if you only enjoyed Galaxy in the past.

00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:04.660

Phil: I think being able to play through Mario 64 in HD, as well as have a look at Sunshine in a different manner is worth the buy.

00:21:05.620 --> 00:21:15.840

Tom: It sounds pretty good other than the control issue and the lack of extra content, though the soundtracks probably make up for the lack of trivia, I would say.

00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:20.520

Phil: Yeah, especially if there's a way to get it off of your Switch and onto a PC.

00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:23.160

Tom: You would hope there would be.

00:21:23.580 --> 00:21:24.460

Phil: Yes, I'm sure there is.

00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:25.780

Tom: But it is Nintendo, so.

00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:32.740

Tom: But we will move on to, I think, an exciting announcement.

00:21:33.620 --> 00:21:46.960

Tom: Facebook has released a book for the face, and I have purchased it, which technically puts us into the next generation of consoles.

00:21:47.820 --> 00:21:51.500

Tom: Would you have a guess of what the hell I'm talking about?

00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:54.320

Phil: Facebook's book for the face?

00:21:54.340 --> 00:22:05.660

Phil: Well, Facebook owns Oculus, and they've been de-branding Oculus a fair bit to get it away from Lucky Palmer.

00:22:06.460 --> 00:22:10.840

Phil: So I'm going to suggest that Facebook's book for the face is VR related.

00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:11.740

Tom: Correct.

00:22:12.060 --> 00:22:12.700

Phil: Whoa!

00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:14.500

Phil: That's a pretty good guess.

00:22:14.780 --> 00:22:16.500

Phil: So you have a Oculus?

00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:21.660

Tom: A Oculus Quest 2, to be precise.

00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:23.540

Phil: So it's a PC-based one, right?

00:22:23.780 --> 00:22:32.780

Tom: No, this is the standalone one, but it can indeed be used with a computer as a PC-powered headset.

00:22:33.780 --> 00:22:35.760

Phil: Yeah, but what I'm saying is, it's not one of these.

00:22:35.840 --> 00:22:38.720

Phil: It's not the ones that is on your smartphone.

00:22:38.740 --> 00:22:39.400

Phil: This is like a...

00:22:40.040 --> 00:22:41.380

Phil: this is a proper headset.

00:22:41.780 --> 00:22:42.320

Tom: Correct.

00:22:42.580 --> 00:22:43.660

Phil: This is exciting!

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:44.640

Tom: Yes, it is.

00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:49.440

Tom: And as I said, you can use it as a PC-powered thing.

00:22:49.580 --> 00:23:20.360

Tom: And since they have gone out of the beta, I think, two months or something after it was actually released, via USB-C you can actually end up with the same quality or thereabouts of using a headset that is run via a direct video feed rather than decoding it after you're technically streaming it to the headset over USB-C.

00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:45.560

Tom: So it is a fully functional PC VR headset and has the huge advantage of also being able to run over Wi-Fi so that you can essentially play PC VR games wirelessly, which is possible with some previous headsets, but you had to get essentially PCIE solutions for that.

00:23:46.340 --> 00:23:49.520

Phil: Okay, this has just scrubbed the rest of the show.

00:23:49.540 --> 00:23:51.000

Phil: This is what we're going to talk about today.

00:23:51.320 --> 00:23:54.120

Phil: So in Oculus Quest 2, I just looked one up.

00:23:55.600 --> 00:23:58.080

Phil: This is magical that you're talking about this.

00:23:59.060 --> 00:24:02.100

Phil: It's $570 in Australia.

00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:04.760

Tom: I think it's $488.

00:24:05.120 --> 00:24:05.920

Phil: Where did you get it?

00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:07.580

Tom: I got it from oculus.com.

00:24:08.180 --> 00:24:08.880

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:13.160

Phil: Because I was just looking at amazon.com.au and there comes the one I'm looking at.

00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:15.300

Tom: You may also be looking at the high capacity version.

00:24:15.320 --> 00:24:19.620

Tom: There's a 64 gigabyte version and a 256.

00:24:20.040 --> 00:24:21.880

Phil: Yeah, so I'm looking at the 256.

00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:23.860

Phil: Now, what is the difference?

00:24:24.580 --> 00:24:28.880

Tom: The difference is entirely the size of the SSD.

00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:31.060

Phil: In terms of what it can store?

00:24:31.540 --> 00:24:32.220

Tom: That's right.

00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:33.680

Tom: So it's just hard drive space.

00:24:33.980 --> 00:24:36.020

Phil: So that you don't have to hook it up to a PC?

00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:43.140

Tom: Well, you would be hooking up to a PC for using it with PC VR games.

00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:48.600

Tom: So for the games you're storing on the headset because it is a...

00:24:50.700 --> 00:24:55.540

Tom: Essentially the computer that runs the games in it is a mobile computer.

00:24:55.560 --> 00:25:01.560

Tom: So it does not run, unless you're using the computer itself, PC VR titles.

00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:08.080

Tom: So those titles you just get from the Oculus Store in the actual headset.

00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:13.760

Phil: So at that price, that comes with the two little hand thingies?

00:25:14.040 --> 00:25:14.340

Tom: Yep.

00:25:14.340 --> 00:25:15.960

Tom: It comes with both controllers.

00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:20.340

Tom: The only difference is indeed the storage capacity.

00:25:20.840 --> 00:25:21.140

Phil: Okay.

00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:25.840

Phil: So $499 for the smaller one and $570 for the big one.

00:25:25.860 --> 00:25:34.400

Phil: And when you compare that to the price of a new console, which is $700 in a Stryker, that's a real deal because...

00:25:34.420 --> 00:25:38.540

Tom: It's in fact cheaper than them, and it is a functional console.

00:25:38.560 --> 00:25:50.060

Tom: Now, the graphical quality of the Quest games I would put on the level of somewhere between a...

00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:52.520

Tom: Probably not somewhere between, sorry.

00:25:52.540 --> 00:26:06.380

Tom: I would put it on the level of mid-tier PS3 games, except at 4K, as opposed to the awful, awful PS3 resolution output.

00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:24.160

Tom: So it is not exactly a highly powered console, but it is at 4K and at a 72 to 90 FPS refresh rate, depending on what games they are.

00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:27.200

Tom: Because this is the second Quest.

00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:31.940

Tom: The first Quest is only a year old, and that was only 72 hertz.

00:26:32.300 --> 00:26:35.860

Tom: So many games only run at 72 FPS.

00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:48.380

Tom: Many have been updated to run at 90 FPS, and there are obviously new games that are being released on the Quest 2 will also run at 90 FPS.

00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:56.940

Tom: And I don't know outside of VR, but certainly in VR, there is a noticeable difference based on the PC games.

00:26:57.420 --> 00:27:03.100

Tom: I've played between 60 FPS and 70 FPS+.

00:27:03.780 --> 00:27:09.940

Tom: So you would want to be running games at a high FPS in VR for sure.

00:27:10.940 --> 00:27:17.820

Tom: So a 90 Hz compared to the 72 Hz of the original Quest is a huge improvement.

00:27:18.600 --> 00:27:22.640

Phil: So talking about this device as a platform, you made a distinction.

00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:27.200

Phil: You said, well, if you want to play PC VR games, you have to hook it up to a PC.

00:27:27.220 --> 00:27:32.700

Phil: So what VR games would I be playing with it not being hooked up to a PC?

00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.960

Tom: Well, you wouldn't be playing PC VR games if it wasn't hooked up to a PC.

00:27:36.980 --> 00:27:47.820

Tom: But the Quest itself has a wide range of games, including ports of PC VR games that have downgraded graphics.

00:27:47.840 --> 00:27:51.120

Tom: For instance, Superhot is on the Quest.

00:27:52.260 --> 00:27:58.220

Tom: And the difference is essentially just in lighting and in a...

00:27:58.700 --> 00:28:07.060

Tom: I would also add not just lighting, but also a small difference in the level of detail in things like textures and backgrounds as well.

00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:13.100

Tom: So that would be an example of a cross-platform title.

00:28:13.120 --> 00:28:29.100

Tom: And many of the games, if you purchase them on the Oculus Store, you get both the Quest version of the game as well as the PC VR version of the game through the Oculus software on the computer.

00:28:30.800 --> 00:28:44.460

Phil: So in terms of a platform, let's say that Facebook gets sick of this in a year and shuts down their Quest Store, would you still be able to use this device?

00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:46.520

Tom: That would depend entirely on their policy.

00:28:46.760 --> 00:29:01.100

Tom: And one would not necessarily be looking too positively in that direction because certainly multiple users who have had their Facebook accounts banned have lost access to everything they've bought.

00:29:02.260 --> 00:29:06.940

Phil: Which is one of the considerations for this device is that you do have to have a Facebook account.

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:07.720

Tom: That's right.

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:09.560

Tom: To use it at all, that is correct.

00:29:09.780 --> 00:29:14.580

Tom: And it is users that have been making Burner accounts that have been banned.

00:29:15.300 --> 00:29:18.300

Phil: So you have to use your real identity?

00:29:19.020 --> 00:29:20.460

Tom: That's right.

00:29:20.620 --> 00:29:22.340

Tom: So Facebook will be able...

00:29:22.580 --> 00:29:33.040

Tom: Essentially, you can do nothing more than add your name to it, but obviously Facebook will then be able to apply all of their telemetry and usage data to your real name.

00:29:33.780 --> 00:29:34.080

Phil: Right.

00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:34.720

Phil: Right.

00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:40.240

Tom: But of course, many people would be using their real name with things like Steam and so forth as well.

00:29:41.420 --> 00:29:42.500

Phil: Yeah, and I don't...

00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:44.860

Phil: You know, I'm not hung up on that, I guess.

00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:48.860

Phil: Like, I don't have a Facebook account for a reason.

00:29:49.040 --> 00:29:49.740

Phil: I just don't...

00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:55.920

Phil: You know, it's not political or anything, because I just didn't want a Facebook account before the world turned on them.

00:29:56.380 --> 00:30:00.260

Tom: I have a Facebook account now, which I didn't have before, for this.

00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:07.860

Phil: Well, now, unfortunately, though, they've now ended Farmville's run, so you won't be able to play Farmville.

00:30:09.100 --> 00:30:13.360

Tom: So that's a regrettable decision then, because that was my other reason.

00:30:13.800 --> 00:30:16.020

Phil: Okay, so in terms of the...

00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:25.940

Phil: Even if they did say, okay, we're getting rid of that, like I said, with the PC VR games, that's an open platform, presumably.

00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:27.100

Phil: Yep.

00:30:27.100 --> 00:30:28.260

Phil: Like all PC games.

00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:32.640

Tom: That's via Steam or however you want to get them.

00:30:33.120 --> 00:30:40.900

Phil: Yep, and then you would be able to, even if Facebook packed it in with this Quest, you'd still be able to use that as a standalone piece of hardware, I'm presuming.

00:30:41.060 --> 00:30:47.940

Tom: In theory, you would be able to, because presently you do need the Oculus software as well to be able to do this.

00:30:49.280 --> 00:30:56.080

Tom: But you would hope that there would be some third-party work around for this if that were to occur.

00:30:56.980 --> 00:30:59.120

Tom: Though it is yet to be jailbroken.

00:31:00.460 --> 00:31:02.860

Phil: Okay, that's a surprise.

00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:04.760

Phil: But then again, it has only been six months.

00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:08.560

Phil: Who knows why that is.

00:31:08.600 --> 00:31:15.280

Phil: But, okay, so terms of games, I mean, as a platform, are games affordable on this device?

00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:29.160

Tom: Well, this is by far the worst part about it, is the whole, if you want to get it for stand alone, they are predominantly, the Oculus Store, in terms of pricing, is horrendous.

00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:35.140

Tom: The games are actually more than they are on Steam at their base price.

00:31:35.260 --> 00:31:45.320

Tom: For example, their Black Friday sale, the games were getting massive discounts, like 20% to 30% off.

00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:56.800

Tom: So, from that perspective, clearly they are expecting this to be predominantly a niche, enthusiast, luxury item, I assume.

00:31:57.120 --> 00:32:00.220

Phil: Yeah, well, they consider that you are a captive audience, you know.

00:32:02.800 --> 00:32:16.160

Tom: It is essentially, as far as I am aware, anyway, if your main purpose is to use it as a stand alone device, rather than with a computer, it is basically your only option.

00:32:16.780 --> 00:32:29.000

Tom: I don't think there are any other real competitors that run what are essentially mid-tier PS3 level games at such a high resolution available.

00:32:29.620 --> 00:32:34.260

Phil: I'm going to assume that this was not a gift and that you did not steal it or find it.

00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:38.420

Phil: So, when you were making your purchasing decision, and is that correct?

00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:39.800

Phil: Is that correct, first of all, my assumptions?

00:32:40.940 --> 00:32:41.780

Tom: Yes and no.

00:32:41.820 --> 00:32:43.720

Tom: It was related to...

00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:51.120

Tom: I didn't find it, but it was related to payment for building a computer.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.620

Phil: Sweet, sweet, sweet.

00:32:53.900 --> 00:32:59.980

Phil: So, you didn't do any research into the different platforms like Steam, VRKit or this or that?

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:00.540

Tom: Well, I did.

00:33:00.560 --> 00:33:07.840

Tom: I did then, when I was considering getting such a thing, but also had some general knowledge of it.

00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:17.760

Tom: In terms of price, if you were getting this purely as a VR, PC VR headset, there is really no comparison.

00:33:17.780 --> 00:33:25.660

Tom: The closest two competitors are the Rift S, which runs at a significantly lower resolution.

00:33:26.900 --> 00:33:34.240

Tom: And the HP Reverb G2, which is about twice the price.

00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:41.140

Tom: So the Rift S is the same sort of price as the 256 GB version.

00:33:43.620 --> 00:33:50.100

Tom: so even that is more expensive than the Quest 256, 64 GB version, sorry.

00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:53.540

Tom: And the Reverb G2 is twice the price.

00:33:53.540 --> 00:34:00.400

Tom: Then if you are looking at ones like the Index, which isn't available in Australia anyway, that's like $3,000.

00:34:01.860 --> 00:34:07.060

Tom: So this actually has a nearly 4K screen.

00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:20.520

Tom: And the reason you want such a high resolution screen is because you were so close to the actual monitor, though in terms of sharpness, it may not matter that much due to the lenses.

00:34:22.220 --> 00:34:32.200

Tom: You want a tremendously high resolution because of the so-called screen door effect where you can easily see the spaces between each pixel.

00:34:32.900 --> 00:34:35.880

Tom: So that it is as if you are looking through a screen door.

00:34:37.540 --> 00:34:41.400

Phil: So would I I would be able to play Half-Life Alex on this?

00:34:41.420 --> 00:34:42.680

Phil: Yes, you would.

00:34:43.620 --> 00:34:46.160

Phil: Is there a Stanley Parable VR game?

00:34:46.180 --> 00:34:46.640

Phil: Who knows?

00:34:46.700 --> 00:34:47.180

Phil: I wonder.

00:34:48.660 --> 00:34:53.060

Phil: And in terms of watching other media on it, can you watch other media on it?

00:34:53.300 --> 00:34:54.100

Tom: Yes, you can.

00:34:54.380 --> 00:35:02.080

Tom: On cinema size screens and you can also watch 3D videos on it as well, obviously.

00:35:02.660 --> 00:35:06.800

Phil: So just while you're on that topic, the cinema size screens, how is that?

00:35:07.020 --> 00:35:07.660

Phil: Have you tried it?

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:08.760

Tom: Yes, I have.

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:15.580

Tom: And a 4K video on a massive screen looks incredible.

00:35:17.180 --> 00:35:28.080

Tom: It is very much just like you are in a cinema, but in a cinema that has a great projector, as long as the resolution of the video you're watching is high.

00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:38.760

Tom: And a lot of cinemas you go to, particularly these days, have horrendous projectors or the people working the projectors are not very good at setting them up.

00:35:39.340 --> 00:35:53.300

Tom: So if you have a high quality video source, then the experience in terms of fidelity is as good as a very well projected cinema.

00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.000

Phil: Okay, so now thank you for that.

00:35:56.020 --> 00:35:58.020

Phil: Onto the big questions then.

00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.760

Phil: Obviously it's a tremendous value compared to the current consoles.

00:36:03.120 --> 00:36:07.500

Phil: And the current consoles also have prohibitively high pricing for the games library.

00:36:07.520 --> 00:36:08.760

Phil: I mean, you know, so...

00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:14.600

Tom: And this is technically less than their prohibitively high prices at that.

00:36:14.620 --> 00:36:15.000

Phil: That's right.

00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:17.220

Tom: As overpriced as it is.

00:36:18.020 --> 00:36:21.140

Phil: And the Xbox currently has no games.

00:36:22.160 --> 00:36:25.100

Phil: You know, that are killer apps.

00:36:25.240 --> 00:36:26.640

Phil: You know, like, there's nothing out there.

00:36:26.980 --> 00:36:35.260

Phil: The PlayStation 5 is apparently fairly janky, but it has the appeal of their new super cool haptic controller.

00:36:36.600 --> 00:36:38.460

Phil: But still no major killer apps.

00:36:38.680 --> 00:36:47.840

Phil: So, you know, here you've got a complete library of, I'm assuming at this point, tens of thousands of games available to you at varying ranges of value.

00:36:48.780 --> 00:37:07.320

Phil: The reason why I've never bought a VR kit is because I've never tried one, and I didn't want to go out and spend several hundred dollars on something, get at home and find out that it just either doesn't work or it makes me nauseous or you know, so how is it working for you?

00:37:07.580 --> 00:37:30.860

Tom: Well, that was the timing wise, one of the reasons I thought this would be a good opportunity to do it because in spite of the Facebook requirement, this has been massively hyped up and has elsewhere, not in Australia, there was no issue getting it for me, at least in terms of timing, been difficult for people to acquire.

00:37:30.900 --> 00:38:00.020

Tom: So judging by the amount of money that the original Quest were still going for used, I thought that if this did turn out to be totally unusable, it would probably still be possible to resell without too much of a loss, perhaps not over what it would cost to go and try out VR for $20 or $50 at a place in the city that displays VR, for example.

00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:09.900

Tom: So I thought the timing was good on that, and I was very much surprised at how well I have got on in VR so far.

00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:14.200

Tom: And it may be because I am used to living in a state of nausea.

00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:18.360

Phil: Did I bring up the word nausea?

00:38:18.380 --> 00:38:23.280

Phil: Because I was just thinking, you know, this morning it was like incredibly hot here, and it made me feel nauseous.

00:38:23.380 --> 00:38:25.720

Phil: And I've still got a really bad headache.

00:38:26.260 --> 00:38:30.000

Phil: So even thinking about VR at this point makes me want to hurl.

00:38:30.940 --> 00:38:37.700

Phil: So, but you, first of all, so it doesn't have a negative physical effect on you?

00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:39.640

Tom: Well, it depends on what.

00:38:40.240 --> 00:38:47.920

Tom: In things like racing, I do get on sudden acceleration, not so much on anything else.

00:38:48.380 --> 00:38:51.620

Tom: A slight feeling of motion sickness, but it is very little.

00:38:53.020 --> 00:38:54.040

Tom: It is manageable.

00:38:54.500 --> 00:39:00.220

Tom: In some, in free movement, things turning can be an issue.

00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:06.420

Tom: And I have been avoiding those sorts of games to begin with as I continue to acclimatize.

00:39:08.600 --> 00:39:19.920

Tom: Beyond that, other than my eyes getting used to staring at a new screen, even though that isn't really the sensation you have when using it, that is what you're literally doing.

00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:22.160

Tom: I haven't really had many effects.

00:39:22.160 --> 00:39:31.480

Tom: The main effects I've had from it have been from the weight of the device itself and the original strap that it comes with.

00:39:32.240 --> 00:39:35.540

Phil: Yeah, so I was going to ask, the process is on board as well.

00:39:35.560 --> 00:39:37.460

Phil: So surely that creates heat.

00:39:39.020 --> 00:40:03.460

Tom: Yeah, it is so far in my use, because if I am using an energetic game at all, which has usually been the main games I've been playing, my face and head heat up as well, I haven't really noticed much heat, because you are only touching the device directly through the foam surface that is pressed against your face.

00:40:04.460 --> 00:40:13.440

Tom: If you touch the device itself with your hands, you can feel that it is certainly hotter than room temperature, but it's not that hot.

00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:20.780

Tom: I don't think that is particularly an issue, at least if you are liable to warm up when you're actually using it.

00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:35.160

Tom: But in terms of weight with the default strap, it's again another advantage was it is one of the lightest VR headsets, but with the default strap it is that the vast majority of the weight is balanced on the front of your face.

00:40:35.640 --> 00:40:50.220

Tom: So with the default strap, unless you use a trick to push down the sides, the majority of weight for me anyway was basically on my cheekbones near my nose.

00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:57.840

Tom: So that resulted in a reasonable amount of fatigue for my face muscles.

00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:05.220

Tom: Doing the strap thing trick helped a lot, but it then put a lot of the weight onto the neck itself.

00:41:05.700 --> 00:41:13.840

Tom: So I ended up buying the tremendously overpriced elite strap by Oculus.

00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:16.940

Tom: It was simultaneously incredibly overpriced.

00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:18.080

Tom: I believe it is $79.

00:41:19.740 --> 00:41:38.160

Tom: And yet worth it, because that is essentially it replaces the elastic side straps with two plastic arms that are attached to a plastic arm, the back and two rubber cushions, which they're attached to.

00:41:38.440 --> 00:42:13.520

Tom: And you can tighten that using a circle, which you twist in either direction, and that essentially pulls the rigid straps closer and further apart, which being rigid obviously then distributes the weight to the back of your head as well, so that you end up with a much more centred mass, which obviously thus removes the stress from your neck, as well as without it placing all of the weight on your face as well.

00:42:14.060 --> 00:42:29.820

Tom: So if your issue with it is either is, once you have worked out how to get the weight off your face, so it's a little bit more evenly distributed, if you still end up with that having a lot of weight on your neck, then that would be likely to solve that problem.

00:42:30.140 --> 00:42:49.200

Tom: And in looking at reviews of these straps and all of this thing, I am surprised by how little into detail they go as to where the adjustments end up redistributing the weight to, which should be the starting point for all of these things.

00:42:49.240 --> 00:42:59.000

Tom: But clearly this sort of descriptive language is apparently not in the skill set for tech nerds to be able to express.

00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:11.260

Tom: So you have to just judge it by how logically physics would dictate that altering the structure of the device would end up distributing the weight.

00:43:13.020 --> 00:43:22.600

Phil: So in terms of the effect of it, so physically you're fine with it, now you've got the good strap.

00:43:22.820 --> 00:43:26.520

Phil: In terms of the nausea, we've talked about that, doesn't really affect you as much.

00:43:27.160 --> 00:43:34.660

Phil: In terms of it being a game changer for how you interact with games, does it work?

00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:48.240

Tom: Well, before that, we get to that, that would be, I would argue, predominantly the thing that is most taboo in talking about and selling VR to people, which is the controls, and we'll get to why that is in a moment.

00:43:49.340 --> 00:43:53.460

Tom: But we should, I mentioned the high resolution of the screen.

00:43:53.840 --> 00:44:37.560

Tom: The other great thing about the screen is, once you get into the sweet spot of it, unlike many headsets, in my experience anyway, I don't mean my experience with other headsets, but what people have said, once I'm in the sweet spot where everything is properly in focus and there is no colour blending from lens distortion and that sort of thing, if you look around with your eyes to the corners of the screen, they look just as sharp as the centre of the screen, so there is no weird sort of distortion effect, which would be, for me, tremendously annoying and probably results in eye strain.

00:44:40.060 --> 00:44:41.960

Tom: There are two disadvantages to the screen.

00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:44.340

Tom: One is it is LCD, not OLED.

00:44:46.300 --> 00:44:53.600

Tom: So it is very, for brightly coloured games that are very well lit, they look fine.

00:44:53.860 --> 00:45:05.140

Tom: For things that are a bit more grayscale or darker, then it does not look as good as an IPS monitor or an OLED television, as an example at all.

00:45:06.420 --> 00:45:09.280

Tom: The other disadvantage is the field of view.

00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:26.260

Tom: And again, this is subjective because it depends entirely on what your peripheral vision is like and also your IPD, the distance between your pupils, and whether they match up well with the settings on the headset.

00:45:27.700 --> 00:45:46.960

Tom: For me, I have very good peripheral vision, and using it when it's perfectly aligned on the middle setting for the distance between my pupils, it is very much like you are looking through goggles, which is not an issue for me at all, and I actually prefer that.

00:45:47.060 --> 00:46:01.300

Tom: It would be a weird sensation if I had this massive thing stuck on my face, which extends to the corners of my eyes, and I could see beyond where I would actually be able to see with this stuck on my face.

00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:12.980

Tom: I would actually find that more intrusive and that would be immersive and breaking for me, whereas other people might have the opposite effect, but it is a low field of view.

00:46:13.040 --> 00:46:30.860

Tom: So the money, other than the data collected by Facebook, the LCD screen and the small depth of field will be two areas where they are saving a lot of money compared to something like the Reverb G2 as an example.

00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:36.100

Phil: What about the hand controls themselves?

00:46:36.120 --> 00:46:43.660

Tom: Well, that's what we're getting to now, and to me, this is the most exciting part of VR.

00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:51.500

Tom: The immersion of the screen is absolutely there, for instance, if you are playing Superhot as an example.

00:46:52.040 --> 00:46:59.340

Tom: And one other thing I should add is a lot of the reviews are pretty critical of the sound.

00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:19.620

Tom: And absolutely in terms of being a very flat sort of audio with really weak basses, and basically they're like high quality laptop speakers or $100 USB desktop speakers by Logitech or something like that.

00:47:19.640 --> 00:47:27.340

Tom: They are that sort of standard of quality, though they are clearer than those, arguably just because they're right next to your ear.

00:47:27.700 --> 00:47:32.860

Tom: So they have the advantage of being like open headphones in a way.

00:47:33.160 --> 00:47:47.640

Tom: But what is really impressive about them is, given the cheap like quality of them, how well they are able to simulate a really accurate surround sound.

00:47:47.660 --> 00:48:11.800

Tom: So in Superhot, for example, if you are shot at and you dodge out of the way of a bullet, and it goes very close to your left ear, as an example, you can hear it going past your ear and behind you off into the distance in a perfectly natural way, exactly as you would expect the sound to behave.

00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:17.200

Tom: So the 3D audio that comes with it is tremendously impressive.

00:48:17.220 --> 00:48:24.380

Tom: Obviously, if you have decent earphones or headphones of any sort, you would immediately use them.

00:48:24.860 --> 00:48:36.260

Tom: But if you don't, the main thing that you would want out of it is its ability to do 3-dimensional surround sound well, and it does it incredibly well.

00:48:37.700 --> 00:48:43.220

Tom: So that was a huge surprise that it was as effective at surround sound as it was.

00:48:44.100 --> 00:48:47.380

Tom: So that aspect of immersion is fantastic as well.

00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:53.260

Tom: And again, in Superhot, actually a better example is Space Channel 5.

00:48:53.280 --> 00:49:22.480

Tom: In Space Channel 5, when you are being attacked by a comical giant robot, and it is punching you and you have to dodge out of the way, or an asteroid is coming at you, there is definitely the sensation that there is something coming to hit you and in Superhot, as another example at one moment, you have to jump off a building and that was slightly awkward as well.

00:49:23.340 --> 00:49:38.380

Tom: And if you are prone to being frightened of crashing a car, I can imagine that in Dirt Rally, you may have, or other racing sims, that would also be an intense experience.

00:49:39.140 --> 00:49:49.760

Tom: Judging by my bicycle riding escapades and my go-karting, I have no fear of dying in a vehicular car crash.

00:49:50.020 --> 00:50:02.060

Tom: So when I end up rolling in VR or driving into a wall, it is no more frightening or disturbing than it is on a monitor.

00:50:04.160 --> 00:50:07.440

Tom: So, but absolutely that immersion thing is there.

00:50:07.460 --> 00:50:23.220

Tom: But the best part of VR and the thing that I have found most enjoyable is, and is the best kept and most hidden secret of VR, and you can see why this is taboo, it's because gamers are fucking dickheads.

00:50:23.620 --> 00:50:27.520

Tom: VR is the Wii in 4K.

00:50:29.020 --> 00:50:51.600

Tom: The touch controllers, they use inside out tracking, so there are cameras on the headset that are streaming directly to Mark Zuckerberg, as well as filming what your controllers are doing, and the accuracy is on the level of, I would say, the, sorry, better than the Wii Motion Plus.

00:50:53.180 --> 00:51:05.460

Tom: The only disadvantage is, because it is inside out tracking, if you move your hands to beyond the peripheral vision, so called, of the headset, so behind you as an example, you will lose tracking.

00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:18.840

Tom: So if you want to throw something, you can't really move it back behind your head, and throw it over your head as you would naturally, if you were doing a baseball pitch as an example, because you will lose tracking there.

00:51:19.120 --> 00:51:21.500

Tom: That is the only limitation to the tracking.

00:51:22.620 --> 00:51:26.080

Phil: I think another limitation would be, there would be no bowling games.

00:51:26.900 --> 00:51:28.460

Tom: No, there are bowling games, because...

00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:30.640

Phil: Because your arm goes back behind your body.

00:51:30.860 --> 00:51:33.600

Tom: But when you were bowling, you were naturally looking down.

00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:36.800

Tom: So because the cameras are in the corners of the headset...

00:51:38.940 --> 00:51:41.880

Phil: Well, you should be looking straight ahead at all times.

00:51:42.120 --> 00:51:43.740

Phil: You shouldn't be looking down when you're bowling.

00:51:44.640 --> 00:51:45.220

Phil: You're not gonna...

00:51:45.600 --> 00:51:49.980

Phil: If you're worried about stepping over the line, then you're not really a professional bowler anyway.

00:51:51.660 --> 00:51:52.980

Tom: But your head is lowered.

00:51:53.460 --> 00:51:55.140

Phil: Your head is lowered, yeah.

00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:57.340

Tom: Listen, think about where...

00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:59.660

Tom: Let me just try this out here.

00:51:59.680 --> 00:52:00.860

Phil: All right, here we go.

00:52:01.600 --> 00:52:03.280

Phil: This is great, great radio.

00:52:05.620 --> 00:52:06.780

Phil: So Tom's now attempting to bowl.

00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:26.720

Tom: No, I can tell you, if you are throwing a baseball pitch, or bowling in cricket, or throwing in cricket to the wicket keeper and so forth, not only is your hand behind your head, you're also arching your back, right?

00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:34.420

Tom: So your hand ends up much further back than your hand ends up in bowling.

00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:40.360

Tom: Whereas in bowling, when you are in a sort of semi-kneeling position, you're talking about ten pin bowling, right?

00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:41.440

Tom: Yep, ten pin bowling.

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:52.080

Tom: And your head is forward, and your arm is back, you're still your head, what you need to imagine is this.

00:52:52.080 --> 00:52:55.660

Tom: So the headset, the cameras are in the corners of the headset, right?

00:52:56.980 --> 00:52:59.960

Tom: And they can film to some degree behind themselves.

00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:02.180

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:53:02.200 --> 00:53:04.380

Phil: So they're not just forward facing then?

00:53:04.600 --> 00:53:06.540

Tom: No, they're not.

00:53:06.680 --> 00:53:14.780

Tom: Stick your arm out behind you in a bowling position, look with peripheral vision, and you should be able to just see it.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:15.720

Phil: Yes, you're right.

00:53:15.740 --> 00:53:21.840

Tom: Now if you do that, if you're in the position of throwing the ball to the wicket keeper, you should not be able to see your hand.

00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:38.180

Phil: Okay, so that's really good, because I imagine that bowling is quite an easy game to replicate, as I know from video games, because it's very simple physics and simple visuals.

00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:45.320

Phil: So I'd love to have a 10-pin bowling alley accessible to me at all times.

00:53:45.680 --> 00:53:48.860

Phil: Except I guess you've got to throw a virtual ball, that's the only downside.

00:53:49.240 --> 00:53:52.220

Phil: Well, you could be holding a real one, or could you with these controls?

00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:56.440

Tom: Well, they do have haptic feedback.

00:53:56.860 --> 00:54:01.860

Tom: it works very well or just feels like rumble depending on the game.

00:54:03.640 --> 00:54:20.120

Tom: And the only disadvantage, I would say, that these controllers have, which make them feel not as sorry, which make them feel as if they may be an area where some money was saved.

00:54:20.140 --> 00:54:21.100

Tom: It's not functional.

00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:23.840

Tom: It is in that they are very light.

00:54:24.100 --> 00:54:32.160

Tom: So when you're picking up heavy objects in VR, it does feel a little bit weird because the controllers are so light.

00:54:32.180 --> 00:54:36.420

Tom: They are lighter than the Wii controllers with batteries in them.

00:54:37.200 --> 00:54:41.000

Tom: Significantly lighter than the Wii Motion Plus controllers.

00:54:41.140 --> 00:54:42.920

Tom: They are really, really light.

00:54:43.860 --> 00:54:49.560

Tom: And the haptic feedback rumble is also not that strong.

00:54:50.640 --> 00:54:51.920

Tom: It is really accurate.

00:54:51.940 --> 00:55:07.120

Tom: So for instance, if you are shooting a bow in death, I think it's called as an example, you will feel the bow string sort of run across your hand in a direction as an example.

00:55:07.180 --> 00:55:10.200

Tom: So in games that make use of it, it has a great effect.

00:55:10.520 --> 00:55:18.580

Tom: But like the weight of the controller themselves, it would be great if the motor was a little bit stronger, but it is still great.

00:55:18.600 --> 00:55:26.580

Tom: And the tracking is absolutely amazing and incredibly impressive for inside out tracking as far as I'm aware.

00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:31.660

Tom: And I have not had any issues in terms of tracking from games.

00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:38.880

Tom: There are awkward things in games themselves that I think come about from the games rather than the tracking.

00:55:38.900 --> 00:55:42.800

Tom: For instance, throwing in super hot is incredibly awkward.

00:55:43.560 --> 00:55:49.620

Tom: If you're just trying to throw something forwards, it feels really random what you end up doing.

00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:59.920

Tom: If you are sort of flicking things like a frisbee in a smooth fluid motion, you can have some degree of predictability in what you're doing.

00:56:01.060 --> 00:56:03.320

Tom: But throwing there is really awkward.

00:56:05.100 --> 00:56:11.240

Tom: There is a demo of a sports, Wii Sports-like game that I tried.

00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:15.960

Tom: And the tracking is really impressive in that.

00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:19.180

Tom: And you can do bowling in that, and it worked perfectly fine.

00:56:19.740 --> 00:56:24.660

Tom: There was a bowling game, and that was a big issue, not unlike Superhot.

00:56:24.680 --> 00:56:36.420

Tom: And again, it is also probably caused, in some degree, by the basic limitations of inside-out tracking without being able to throw with proper technique.

00:56:36.620 --> 00:56:43.380

Tom: But there's a tennis mini game in it, and I am a regular wall tennis player.

00:56:43.420 --> 00:56:57.060

Tom: And unlike Wii Sports as an example, you can actually play tennis properly in it and have totally predictable ball behaviour from how you are hitting it.

00:56:57.060 --> 00:56:59.600

Tom: It is really, really impressive.

00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:00.580

Phil: That's exciting.

00:57:00.680 --> 00:57:01.440

Phil: That's exciting.

00:57:02.140 --> 00:57:03.260

Phil: What about grenade throwing?

00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:05.360

Tom: Grenade throwing?

00:57:05.640 --> 00:57:09.500

Tom: I'm not sure I've played any games in which you were throwing a grenade.

00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:17.160

Tom: Oh, wait, no, I played one second or so of what's it called?

00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:21.760

Tom: Pavlov Shack, which is on SideQuest.

00:57:21.780 --> 00:57:34.140

Tom: And if you do get it, make sure you get SideQuest because essentially there is the Oculus Store, then there is SideQuest, and you have to set up a developer account to be able to access SideQuest.

00:57:34.160 --> 00:57:41.480

Tom: But SideQuest is basically all the non-Facebook approved content that isn't curated by Facebook.

00:57:41.500 --> 00:57:49.880

Tom: So there is a huge amount of other games on there and a lot of other free content as well that is not there on the Oculus Storefront.

00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:58.020

Tom: And yes, grenade throwing in that was awkward like throwing objects in Superhot, though not as bad.

00:57:58.340 --> 00:58:02.420

Tom: And that is one game that I did have some issue with movement in.

00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:07.700

Tom: So I did not play that for much longer and just gone.

00:58:08.500 --> 00:58:27.120

Phil: What about games that where you basically are sitting on a couch and you're using the two hand controls as if it's basically just a PlayStation controller in two parts, but you're using your head to kind of see around, look up and down and all that sort of thing.

00:58:27.140 --> 00:58:28.500

Phil: I mean, is that a thing?

00:58:28.520 --> 00:58:56.820

Tom: Well, the impressive thing is, and for anyone who may be in a wheelchair, don't let that put you off playing VR because contrary to what even the game instructions will tell you, so many games can absolutely be played sitting down, like even something like Beat Saber, because obviously only the Valve Index, I think that's the only VR headset that has full body tracking.

00:58:57.180 --> 00:58:58.980

Tom: So nothing is tracking your legs.

00:58:59.860 --> 00:59:10.700

Tom: So you just calibrate your height to your seated position and you can easily play Beat Saber as long as you can lean left to right and forwards in your chair.

00:59:10.720 --> 00:59:16.920

Tom: You'll be able to dodge to the left, dodge to the right and dodge obstacles that are above your head height.

00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:25.160

Tom: So even games that seemingly would require you to be standing and more movement, you can actually play sitting down.

00:59:26.980 --> 00:59:30.780

Phil: So, I mean, that's an interesting point for people who are in wheelchairs.

00:59:31.200 --> 00:59:37.320

Phil: I mean, this opens up, in a way, a whole different world of experiences, wouldn't it?

00:59:37.560 --> 00:59:41.780

Phil: I mean, or is that just the same as watching a movie sort of thing?

00:59:42.400 --> 00:59:52.100

Tom: Well, it is not at all the same as watching a film because the brain absolutely does believe that it is in the environment that it is actually in.

00:59:54.360 --> 01:00:09.980

Phil: And a game or experience that people talk about Beat Saber as a must play, people talk about Super Hot as a must play, but the experience that I've heard the most about is the Google Maps Street View where you can basically walk around neighborhoods.

01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:11.720

Phil: Have you tried that?

01:00:11.740 --> 01:00:13.720

Tom: I have tried it.

01:00:13.740 --> 01:00:20.040

Tom: I have not walked around neighborhoods, but I have walked around a zoomed out area of the Great Canyon.

01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:21.080

Tom: What's it called?

01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:23.060

Tom: Grand Canyon.

01:00:23.900 --> 01:00:25.320

Phil: And it worked sufficiently?

01:00:25.540 --> 01:00:25.860

Tom: Yep.

01:00:26.500 --> 01:00:31.220

Tom: It is, I think, as a surreal experience, all the more enjoyable.

01:00:32.060 --> 01:00:37.300

Phil: Yeah, because usually people just talk about going to places where they used to go to school or where they used to live.

01:00:38.380 --> 01:00:39.860

Tom: Instead, be a giant.

01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:41.900

Tom: That's my advice.

01:00:44.520 --> 01:00:45.360

Phil: So that's what you did.

01:00:45.680 --> 01:00:46.040

Tom: Yes.

01:00:47.500 --> 01:01:19.520

Tom: And as far as surreal experiences are concerned, I need to look up more games, but I hope that this is being used for the surreal, because probably the best experience I've had on it, and I need to play it more, because I did this at the end of a session where my own natural orthostatic intolerance causing me to be in a state of severe nausea, and motion sickness was already to some degree there.

01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:30.960

Tom: So I couldn't play it for very long, as well as the slight motion sickness effect that I have from certain types of Moon VR, is a game called The Under Presence.

01:01:30.980 --> 01:01:39.060

Tom: And it has, the opening is a really surreal scene, and that's not what's special about it.

01:01:39.080 --> 01:01:43.400

Tom: What's special about it is the way you move in it is totally surreal.

01:01:43.600 --> 01:01:59.540

Tom: So you will essentially be pointing ahead, grabbing a hold of the world in the distance, and distorting it and pulling it towards you, and you will end up where you have pulled the world to you.

01:01:59.900 --> 01:02:04.260

Tom: And it is this amazing surreal effect.

01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:15.360

Tom: So I really hope that there are a lot of surreal indie games out there that may be doing interesting things in VR because it is a perfect effect.

01:02:15.380 --> 01:02:34.460

Tom: It's a pity, in fact, that surrealism has moved to away from random indie stuff that might be making use of this to massive commercial enterprises, such as music videos and K-pop, that would be less likely to be doing stuff like this.

01:02:34.640 --> 01:02:44.440

Phil: Well, look, if you look at the options there for recreating hallucinogenic experiences, installation art, you know, things like that...

01:02:44.460 --> 01:02:52.220

Tom: Well, I have downloaded Anne Frank VR as an example of that, but I'm yet to play it.

01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:52.840

Phil: Okay.

01:02:53.780 --> 01:03:01.680

Phil: Is there a lot of free content that's semi-educational or artistic that's available from governments or galaxies?

01:03:01.700 --> 01:03:02.560

Phil: What are those things called?

01:03:02.600 --> 01:03:03.360

Phil: Art galaxies.

01:03:03.740 --> 01:03:04.400

Phil: Art galleries.

01:03:04.420 --> 01:03:05.280

Tom: Art galaxies.

01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:08.340

Phil: Is there free stuff like that that's available?

01:03:09.680 --> 01:03:17.560

Tom: Well, the under-presence is free, and I'm not sure if that's just a 30-minute demo to a full thing, or if it is a full thing.

01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:19.860

Tom: There's Anne Frank VR.

01:03:19.860 --> 01:03:20.640

Tom: There are...

01:03:21.560 --> 01:03:22.800

Tom: They're outside...

01:03:22.820 --> 01:03:26.600

Tom: That's the two main things I've discovered on the Oculus Quest store.

01:03:26.980 --> 01:03:34.320

Tom: Outside of Oculus, when you go into the realm of PC VR, then there is a huge amount of stuff.

01:03:35.600 --> 01:03:40.400

Tom: So if you can connect to a computer, then there should be...

01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:43.620

Tom: There is absolutely a huge range of random shit.

01:03:44.560 --> 01:04:02.620

Tom: But I have not been able to explore that properly, because I have been playing the version of Space Channel 5 that I have wanted to be playing since I originally played the Space Channel 5 demo that came with a Ministry of Sounds CD.

01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:06.040

Phil: Now, do you want to get into Space Channel 5?

01:04:06.460 --> 01:04:10.620

Tom: Well, we will unless you have any other questions on the headset itself.

01:04:10.660 --> 01:04:12.060

Phil: I have a couple of questions.

01:04:12.900 --> 01:04:18.940

Phil: So right now, one of the great things about the new consoles and the Switch is that you're...

01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:22.100

Phil: Well, this is a lie.

01:04:23.380 --> 01:04:25.180

Phil: Because of updates and things like that.

01:04:26.200 --> 01:04:29.720

Phil: But like, if on the Switch, for example, there's very few updates.

01:04:29.740 --> 01:04:38.960

Phil: So, you know, if you're going into a game, you're usually playing within, I'd say, 15 seconds of turning on the device.

01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:42.740

Phil: Especially if you're in handheld mode.

01:04:43.620 --> 01:04:47.060

Phil: What's the entry process like from...

01:04:47.160 --> 01:04:48.940

Phil: Oh, I want to play a VR game.

01:04:49.480 --> 01:04:53.400

Phil: From that thought to playing the actual game, what's the process like?

01:04:53.860 --> 01:04:55.560

Tom: It totally depends on the game.

01:04:56.440 --> 01:05:01.760

Tom: Some have basically instantaneous loading time.

01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:05.240

Tom: Some will take 20 seconds to load.

01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:11.360

Tom: Once the games have actually loaded though, there usually isn't much loading within the games themselves.

01:05:11.540 --> 01:05:16.160

Phil: But like, boot up time, like you go to turn it on, I assume there's an on button on the device itself.

01:05:16.560 --> 01:05:31.740

Tom: So for the console itself, you stick it on your head, there will be a three dot sign for a few seconds, then it will be on if you have already set up the area in which you're able to move around.

01:05:32.040 --> 01:05:37.500

Tom: So booting up the console itself is very, very quick.

01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:50.180

Phil: So if you're basically going to be playing this device in one area, like your game room or office or whatever, there's no need to recalibrate it every time you put it on?

01:05:50.680 --> 01:05:51.180

Tom: Correct.

01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:55.240

Phil: Have you tried using this outdoors?

01:05:56.480 --> 01:06:07.780

Tom: You're not meant to, which I think is due to direct sunlight potentially getting on the lenses, though how it would be likely to do that through your face.

01:06:08.800 --> 01:06:11.720

Tom: And the plastic of the headset itself, I'm not sure.

01:06:11.740 --> 01:06:14.920

Tom: I have played it in several different rooms.

01:06:14.940 --> 01:06:16.600

Tom: I have not played it outside.

01:06:16.640 --> 01:06:19.520

Tom: I may play it on the veranda at some point.

01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:21.920

Phil: Would you be able to...

01:06:23.180 --> 01:06:31.980

Phil: I wonder if there's a virtual office environment, so you could actually be using Word or Excel or Windows for that matter.

01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:44.540

Tom: There are indeed virtual office environments you can get from it, and I believe some of them can also function as an augmented reality office so that you can see stuff on your desk and so on and so forth.

01:06:44.720 --> 01:06:44.980

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:45.100 --> 01:06:56.800

Phil: And in terms of other applications, like communications or applications, like Zoom or Skype, things like that, I mean, would you know if you were able to use it?

01:06:56.820 --> 01:07:02.320

Phil: Are you able to use vanilla Skype and it's just basically on the screen in front of you if you're having a video conference?

01:07:02.840 --> 01:07:04.160

Tom: I'm not sure about that.

01:07:04.680 --> 01:07:13.060

Tom: There are certainly some of the office programs have video conferencing and collaborative connective stuff available.

01:07:13.060 --> 01:07:24.860

Tom: I'm not sure if you can use standalone stuff though, but you should be able to, I assume, through things like SideQuest because it is just an Android system.

01:07:26.060 --> 01:07:36.280

Phil: Games that, well, indeed a video conference full of people wearing quests on their face probably isn't useful because you just see a bunch of people with quests on their face.

01:07:37.420 --> 01:07:43.660

Phil: Games that have you fly, have you had any flying games like Sky or Children of Light?

01:07:43.680 --> 01:07:50.700

Tom: I have flown in a car to my death several times.

01:07:51.720 --> 01:07:55.140

Phil: Driving, you don't have a gaming rig with a steering wheel or anything?

01:07:56.060 --> 01:08:00.100

Tom: I have a Logitech Driving Force GT.

01:08:00.340 --> 01:08:02.680

Phil: And is this thing compatible with any of those?

01:08:04.300 --> 01:08:05.900

Tom: You can't use it with the Quest itself.

01:08:06.300 --> 01:08:10.220

Tom: You can use it with playing those games via PC VR.

01:08:11.540 --> 01:08:12.400

Phil: Have you tried that yet?

01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:13.580

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:08:13.640 --> 01:08:15.340

Tom: I have played Dirt Rally.

01:08:16.100 --> 01:08:16.400

Phil: And?

01:08:17.340 --> 01:08:18.980

Tom: It works amazingly well.

01:08:19.460 --> 01:08:23.760

Tom: The big advantage to it is corner turning.

01:08:23.940 --> 01:08:46.200

Tom: You can much more easily see when you should be starting to turn due to obviously the night and day difference in depth perception, but also the huge improvement to peripheral vision, because even though it's not as wide as your actual peripheral vision, it's obviously much better than a monitor.

01:08:46.220 --> 01:08:54.860

Tom: To get the same sort of peripheral vision, you would need to be using a 3D monitor setup, and you would not have the depth perception there.

01:08:55.540 --> 01:09:00.220

Tom: In a game like Dirt Rally, this would not be an issue in a track racing game.

01:09:00.440 --> 01:09:22.320

Tom: The big disadvantage to it is it really shows off, which you can feel and see normally, but it doesn't feel viscerally, to misuse the term as wrong, is things like troughs and gutters along the side of the road, half a meter or a meter deep.

01:09:22.340 --> 01:09:23.740

Tom: They're these massive things.

01:09:24.100 --> 01:09:37.020

Tom: If you drop a wheel or two wheels into it, the car will just be a little bit tilted to the side, and you will not be losing that much control of the car, which is okay on a monitor.

01:09:37.320 --> 01:09:51.760

Tom: In VR, it feels a little bit ridiculous and stupid that you're not just falling off the side of the road or rolling, or the car is not at least at a 30 to 40 degree angle and going totally out of control.

01:09:52.100 --> 01:09:59.320

Tom: So that is actually arguably an immersive immersion braking aspect of VR that occurs.

01:09:59.560 --> 01:10:14.240

Tom: But it is amazing to be sitting in the car next to the co-driver, and in terms of if you want to improve your sim racing ability, it massively helps.

01:10:14.620 --> 01:10:23.660

Tom: After doing a little bit of racing in VR, going back to using a monitor, I was actually much better on corner turning.

01:10:23.900 --> 01:10:34.440

Tom: I was much more aggressive and aggressive in a way that didn't result in me entering the corner far too soon and crashing into something.

01:10:34.460 --> 01:10:51.200

Tom: So for sim racing, if you can deal with the motion sickness, which I can as long as I'm not playing for too long, it is absolutely a useful thing to have and it is significantly more fun obviously.

01:10:51.420 --> 01:11:01.400

Tom: But it does for something like Dirt Rally have drawbacks of showing off some of the unrealistic aspects of the physics in the game.

01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:05.260

Phil: That reminds me, I've been meaning to talk to you about cruise control.

01:11:05.280 --> 01:11:09.260

Phil: I'll just break out for a trademark banter here to give your voice a bit of a rest.

01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:19.180

Phil: I've got a fairly new car, a Honda Civic, and I haven't had a new car, like a new car, a new car since like the year 2000.

01:11:19.580 --> 01:11:26.820

Phil: I've had newer cars than a car that's made in the year 2000 obviously, but I haven't had one that's got all the new tech in it.

01:11:27.060 --> 01:11:39.480

Phil: And this car has got a lot of pep, but I've completely gamified my driving experience now because it's got this thing that's telling you how much fuel you're using every single second.

01:11:40.480 --> 01:11:42.720

Phil: And then you can work on lowering your average.

01:11:43.120 --> 01:11:46.080

Phil: So instead of wanting a big number, you want a little number.

01:11:46.100 --> 01:11:53.200

Phil: So I've been using cruise control and just all these different eco modes and everything while I'm driving.

01:11:54.640 --> 01:12:01.420

Phil: It has a sports mode, and the car has incredible acceleration and handling and all the rest of it.

01:12:01.440 --> 01:12:08.620

Phil: But I haven't been using it because I'm obsessed with getting my, my petrol consumption as low as possible because it's a game to me, right?

01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:11.280

Phil: So I'm like going the speed limit and things like that now.

01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:17.560

Phil: And I've got my speed limit, I've got my gas consumption down to 5.4 liters per hundred kilometers.

01:12:18.080 --> 01:12:18.940

Phil: Yep.

01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:27.240

Phil: In the car, when you first get into it, it's saying, oh, you know, like 6.5, and I'm down to 5.4 consistently now, which I'm happy about.

01:12:28.380 --> 01:12:36.640

Phil: And it's funny because, you know, I'm saving, you know, resources, and I'm also driving more safely as a result, which is really unfortunate because it's got a lot of pickup.

01:12:37.620 --> 01:12:46.740

Phil: But one of the things about the steering wheel, which is another thing that's just, you know, it's a 2019 Honda Civic, I think, might be 2018.

01:12:48.140 --> 01:12:58.540

Phil: On the steering wheel itself, it has two directional pads on the steering wheel, as well as five other face buttons.

01:12:59.400 --> 01:13:06.480

Phil: So while you're driving, you've essentially got a game controller that is there that you're controlling with your thumbs.

01:13:06.740 --> 01:13:11.280

Tom: So it's in fact like the Driving Force GT, which has a D-pad on it.

01:13:11.820 --> 01:13:16.200

Phil: Yeah, I guess, but I've never used cruise control to this extent.

01:13:16.220 --> 01:13:20.040

Phil: I'm using it almost compulsively with my foot off the accelerator.

01:13:20.480 --> 01:13:23.760

Phil: Like my foot is just completely away from the accelerator in the brake.

01:13:24.160 --> 01:13:28.360

Phil: And I'm using cruise control pretty much to handle all of my acceleration.

01:13:28.980 --> 01:13:31.780

Phil: Because I have a fairly predictable commute.

01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:33.300

Phil: I go to the same place every single day.

01:13:33.320 --> 01:13:34.900

Phil: I come home from the same place every single day.

01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:40.520

Phil: So I know exactly when to muck around with the cruise control, so I don't necessarily have to brake.

01:13:42.120 --> 01:13:48.640

Phil: But yeah, I just thought, you know, there was a gamification moment, and you just bring up your driving there.

01:13:49.500 --> 01:13:51.820

Phil: Mike, question about, three more questions.

01:13:52.360 --> 01:13:56.000

Tom: Hypermiling enthusiasts are a thing, by the way.

01:13:56.020 --> 01:13:56.420

Phil: Is it?

01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:59.060

Tom: Yeah, that is a popular pastime for people.

01:14:00.280 --> 01:14:01.240

Phil: I can see why.

01:14:01.320 --> 01:14:04.280

Phil: It's very addictive or addicting.

01:14:04.860 --> 01:14:13.180

Phil: Okay, so what is the longest game session you've had with this thing on, and what's the battery life support in terms of gaming sessions?

01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:26.120

Phil: And does it get unpleasant, no matter how comfortable the game is that you're playing, does it get uncomfortable at a certain point where you would stop earlier than if you were just gaming with a traditional controller?

01:14:27.360 --> 01:14:41.500

Tom: Well, the first day of getting it, I probably used it for a total of two to three hours maybe, but that was not in the one session that was broken up.

01:14:42.320 --> 01:14:49.040

Tom: Probably the one single session would be maybe an hour and a half at the most.

01:14:50.120 --> 01:14:54.760

Tom: The battery, I have not run into it running out.

01:14:54.780 --> 01:15:04.660

Tom: I would speculate that it would probably last over two hours at least, up to maybe three and a half hours.

01:15:05.740 --> 01:15:20.160

Tom: I think the general estimate people have is two hours, but in my experience, if I've been playing for an hour, it does not use up 50% of its charge according to the meter.

01:15:20.600 --> 01:15:25.320

Tom: But of course, it may run out faster once you have a lower battery.

01:15:25.580 --> 01:15:28.140

Tom: It also charges extremely fast.

01:15:28.200 --> 01:15:44.900

Tom: I haven't timed it, but I have seen it down in a low range, and it gets to fully charged in under 30 or 40 minutes, I think was the time I went back to it.

01:15:45.260 --> 01:15:47.320

Tom: So it charges extremely quickly.

01:15:47.620 --> 01:15:55.280

Tom: The most impressive thing is the batteries that it comes with and the amount of power the controllers use.

01:15:55.800 --> 01:16:06.180

Tom: After probably a total of somewhere between anywhere between 5 to 10 hours, they are both still at 100% charge.

01:16:06.700 --> 01:16:09.760

Tom: So they appear to not use any power at all.

01:16:12.120 --> 01:16:15.640

Phil: Is it a consumer repairable friendly headset itself?

01:16:15.660 --> 01:16:22.240

Phil: Like if the battery does eventually die, will you be able to put a new battery in it, or would you then just have to have it hooked up to power the whole time?

01:16:23.140 --> 01:16:25.200

Tom: Well, I don't think you can hook it up to power.

01:16:25.200 --> 01:16:28.180

Tom: I think you would probably need to send it to Oculus.

01:16:29.340 --> 01:16:38.020

Tom: It does not appear like the sort of device that would be easy to disassemble or anything like that.

01:16:39.020 --> 01:16:47.820

Tom: And as an example of that, you can get an extra battery that you attach to the Elite Strap.

01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:51.140

Tom: I think you may need to get a different version of the Elite Strap to do this, of course.

01:16:51.940 --> 01:16:56.820

Tom: But that, for instance, you then plug into the USB-C port.

01:16:58.160 --> 01:17:01.960

Tom: So you can't use Link at the same time as an example of that.

01:17:02.120 --> 01:17:03.500

Tom: But that's an example of...

01:17:04.860 --> 01:17:07.680

Tom: It's not like you can replace the battery with a more powerful one.

01:17:07.700 --> 01:17:13.740

Tom: So I would suspect if you did have issues, you would probably require professional maintenance.

01:17:14.040 --> 01:17:19.140

Tom: Certainly aesthetically, they're clearly trying to copy the Apple model.

01:17:19.160 --> 01:17:22.900

Tom: It's not white, but it is a very light gray.

01:17:23.580 --> 01:17:24.540

Tom: It comes in...

01:17:25.500 --> 01:17:27.680

Tom: The inside of the box is white packaging.

01:17:28.220 --> 01:17:32.640

Tom: The outside is a generic gray cardboard.

01:17:34.040 --> 01:17:35.860

Tom: And it is generally...

01:17:35.900 --> 01:17:40.540

Tom: The cover being a printed cardboard that you slide off.

01:17:40.540 --> 01:17:44.080

Tom: So it is very much going for the Apple minimalist look.

01:17:44.920 --> 01:17:50.560

Tom: I would suspect they're probably also going for the Apple awkward to deal with as well.

01:17:51.420 --> 01:18:01.480

Phil: Okay, so the last question I have, and it is unfortunate because, you know, someone who likes to hang on to their consoles like me, there's always a workaround in terms of how the...

01:18:01.680 --> 01:18:02.960

Phil: how you can keep using them.

01:18:03.020 --> 01:18:11.420

Phil: So like the controllers that have dead batteries, you can permanently hook up with a USB and it still work and things like that.

01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:20.180

Tom: And we are entirely speculating at this point because it has not been available for a particularly long period of time.

01:18:20.200 --> 01:18:24.980

Tom: I think the official release was this month.

01:18:25.960 --> 01:18:28.660

Tom: Maybe it was the month before, but it is a very new thing.

01:18:29.100 --> 01:18:40.360

Tom: So for that sort of stuff, we will find out more as it unfolds, just as we will find out about the durability of the next-gen consoles with time as well.

01:18:40.380 --> 01:18:40.820

Phil: That's right.

01:18:40.840 --> 01:18:41.320

Phil: That's right.

01:18:41.340 --> 01:18:47.780

Phil: And I'm sure with a lot of these things, people are like, well, by the time you're under the Quest 5, who cares if your Quest 2 is working?

01:18:47.860 --> 01:19:02.560

Phil: And that's unfortunately, we're supposed to be more environmentally aware, but we're consuming and destroying electronics with disregard, you know, at a rate higher than ever before in history, obviously.

01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:08.340

Tom: The packaging, at least, you can reuse as a case for it quite effectively.

01:19:08.500 --> 01:19:08.960

Phil: Okay.

01:19:09.400 --> 01:19:13.480

Phil: Hey, last question, and then we'll ask for your impressions of Space Channel 5.

01:19:15.060 --> 01:19:18.700

Phil: Fit and finish, does it feel flimsy?

01:19:18.720 --> 01:19:19.860

Phil: Does it feel solid?

01:19:20.820 --> 01:19:22.580

Phil: Does it feel like you're going to break it?

01:19:23.500 --> 01:19:26.500

Phil: Does it actually feel good, the headset and the controllers?

01:19:27.080 --> 01:19:31.080

Tom: It feels a lot better than I was expecting and surprisingly durable.

01:19:31.980 --> 01:19:40.860

Tom: The headset itself, unless you are removing the straps and doing things like that to it, it feels really solid.

01:19:41.040 --> 01:19:48.940

Tom: When you're putting it on and off, if you accidentally push it on very quickly or something like that, it doesn't feel like it's going to break.

01:19:48.960 --> 01:20:20.180

Tom: The only thing there, but it doesn't feel like it is at all flimsy when you're doing this, when you have the glasses spacer in, which I need to have, even though I don't wear glasses, without my eyelashes brushing against the lenses, when I have that on and the strap really tight, if I take it off before loosening the strap a little bit, sometimes the spacer will pop out and I have to click it back into place.

01:20:21.360 --> 01:20:24.180

Tom: Other than that, the headset itself feels really solid.

01:20:24.560 --> 01:20:33.200

Tom: And the controllers, even though they're really light, they feel really solid in your hands and I have bumped into things with them repeatedly.

01:20:33.680 --> 01:20:52.680

Tom: And so far, even though the little halo that goes over the top of the controller, which I assume senses where your thumb is, and is also there probably to protect the buttons and your hand as well from when you hit things, that is totally unaffected.

01:20:52.700 --> 01:20:56.940

Tom: It doesn't even have any scratches on it from bumping into things either.

01:20:57.200 --> 01:21:07.660

Tom: So it is better than I was expecting in terms of durability so far, though it is too early to make any proper judgement on that.

01:21:08.180 --> 01:21:17.120

Tom: And also it feels surprisingly solid in spite of the lightness of both the headset and the controllers themselves.

01:21:17.460 --> 01:21:24.560

Tom: The Elite Strap, on the other hand, does feel like it is going to break every time you are adjusting the strap.

01:21:25.600 --> 01:21:27.140

Tom: That feels really flimsy.

01:21:28.260 --> 01:21:32.000

Tom: And I do believe that a lot of people have had that breaking for them.

01:21:33.160 --> 01:21:39.000

Tom: But it obviously automatically comes with a warranty under Australian Consumer Law.

01:21:41.120 --> 01:21:44.640

Phil: Is the Die of Destiny ready to give this a score for a hardware review?

01:21:45.660 --> 01:21:47.800

Tom: Well, let me get the Die of Destiny.

01:21:49.060 --> 01:21:49.860

Phil: Can you still hear me?

01:21:50.840 --> 01:21:51.520

Tom: Yes, I can.

01:21:51.780 --> 01:21:52.940

Phil: Okay.

01:21:54.260 --> 01:22:04.720

Tom: I have the Die of Destiny here ready to score the Oculus Quest 2 from Facebook.

01:22:07.680 --> 01:22:21.320

Tom: And the Oculus Quest 2 from Facebook, would you believe, and perhaps this is the correct score to give it, given the requirement of a Facebook account, gets a zero out of ten.

01:22:22.160 --> 01:22:27.360

Phil: See, from your review, I was thinking more of an eight, or even an eight and a half.

01:22:27.440 --> 01:22:30.260

Tom: That was zero out of ten.

01:22:30.480 --> 01:22:36.960

Tom: You would have been expecting a high score, given that I called it the Wii in 4K, and the Wii remains.

01:22:37.180 --> 01:22:48.080

Tom: I think with time, the more I think about the Wii, the higher, the more highly I think of it, I think the Wii is probably my favourite console of all time.

01:22:48.440 --> 01:22:58.200

Tom: And now that I have been exposed to VR, I would argue it is the most significant console of all time.

01:22:58.400 --> 01:23:09.880

Tom: Because while obviously one important improvement required for the feasible VR we have now was improvement obviously in processing power and screens.

01:23:10.900 --> 01:23:14.440

Tom: You can't attribute that to any console's influence.

01:23:14.820 --> 01:23:26.480

Tom: The other thing that is the most important to VR being viable and enjoyable and interesting experience is some immersive way of being able to interact the world in which you are in.

01:23:26.840 --> 01:23:43.400

Tom: And obviously motion controls were the catalyst that led us to the solidification of VR as being a genuine niche market at least, even if it's not a mainstream thing like gaming in general is now.

01:23:43.420 --> 01:23:53.800

Tom: So the Wii, I would argue, other than obviously early home consoles, is the most significant console of all time.

01:23:54.160 --> 01:24:02.280

Phil: Yeah, I'd have to think about that, but I certainly enjoyed every single game in my Wii catalog, as I recall.

01:24:02.640 --> 01:24:16.860

Phil: The one thing you never really confronted, and I hate to do this because you've already given a score, but you said, oh, there's this annoying thing that reviewers do, and ultimately you're recommending this device, but you wouldn't recommend it for me necessarily, right?

01:24:16.960 --> 01:24:19.800

Phil: Because you can't.

01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:24.740

Phil: Until I've tried it, you can't really recommend VR to anyone.

01:24:27.560 --> 01:24:33.980

Tom: That's true, I would say, but I personally was surprised with how well I got on with it.

01:24:34.060 --> 01:24:49.980

Tom: And as I said, and while this is a joke, it's also not a joke, I may have got on so well with it to begin with due to me already being naturally climatized to nausea and motion sickness and dizziness.

01:24:52.100 --> 01:24:54.900

Tom: So I may not even be noticing the crippling dizziness.

01:24:55.280 --> 01:25:03.900

Phil: So of all the games that you played, all these amazing experiences you've had, you've played some first person shooters, haven't you?

01:25:05.580 --> 01:25:12.940

Tom: Yes, but only briefly because those were some that did actually cause some degree of annoying motion sickness.

01:25:20.320 --> 01:25:28.480

Tom: In things that do cause a slight effect, the more I use it, I am definitely noticing that that does go down with time.

01:25:28.780 --> 01:25:34.300

Tom: So getting acclimatised to it is certainly a real phenomenon.

01:25:34.320 --> 01:25:35.500

Phil: Is it acclimated or acclimatised?

01:25:38.540 --> 01:25:43.100

Tom: I believe it would be a question of cultural usage.

01:25:43.880 --> 01:25:44.880

Phil: That gets you off the hook.

01:25:46.140 --> 01:25:52.880

Phil: We are going to talk about a game later on called One Night Stand.

01:25:52.900 --> 01:25:58.500

Phil: The game doesn't have any provocative imagery, necessarily, it's not risque.

01:25:59.540 --> 01:26:06.760

Phil: But there are certain games like that that I feel uncomfortable playing when other people are around because they walk in the room and they get the wrong impression.

01:26:07.260 --> 01:26:11.000

Tom: And with VR on, you wouldn't even know if they were there.

01:26:11.020 --> 01:26:11.400

Phil: That's right.

01:26:12.420 --> 01:26:16.320

Phil: But could I play One Night Stand on my VR headset?

01:26:18.420 --> 01:26:19.400

Tom: One Night Stand specifically?

01:26:19.420 --> 01:26:20.440

Phil: Yeah, or a game like that.

01:26:21.200 --> 01:26:26.040

Phil: A game that's obviously not built for VR support, doesn't have any features.

01:26:26.060 --> 01:26:29.200

Phil: I just basically want to use my VR headset as a screen.

01:26:31.540 --> 01:26:32.760

Phil: Just use the hand.

01:26:33.460 --> 01:26:39.720

Tom: You can play any game on computer you want on the headset.

01:26:40.220 --> 01:26:48.780

Tom: And if it is a 2D as opposed to a 3D game, you essentially can just play it as if you were playing a game in a cinema.

01:26:48.800 --> 01:26:50.340

Tom: So you can play it on a massive screen.

01:26:50.360 --> 01:26:53.020

Phil: Do you have to use the Oculus controllers or can you use your keyboard and mouse?

01:26:54.340 --> 01:27:02.480

Tom: No, you would in those cases be using other controllers because they would not be compatible with the touch controllers.

01:27:03.260 --> 01:27:06.640

Phil: I told you we should just wipe out the rest of the show.

01:27:06.760 --> 01:27:17.780

Tom: But with One Night Stand, because that is mouse controlled, you actually should in theory be able to play that using the touch controller because you can use that as a mouse pointer.

01:27:18.200 --> 01:27:24.360

Tom: You could even theoretically use your hand with hand tracking on because you can use your hand as a mouse pointer.

01:27:25.240 --> 01:27:27.280

Tom: So you could play it totally controllerless.

01:27:27.300 --> 01:27:28.820

Phil: Well, you've sold me.

01:27:28.840 --> 01:27:42.260

Phil: I guess the one thing we didn't talk about was the social aspect of it, and that is, you know, if there's other people in your household, how has that had an impact on you and your interaction with them, or do they usually not interact with you when you're gaming anyway?

01:27:44.500 --> 01:27:52.900

Tom: Well, one thing to note there is, it is extremely easy to stream this to any television that has Chromecast.

01:27:54.940 --> 01:28:04.280

Tom: And even if you don't have Chromecast, you can stream it to mobile phones, and you can stream it to your browser as well.

01:28:04.280 --> 01:28:24.240

Tom: So how that works then is, obviously the person playing the game sees what's happening in the headset, and what they see is then streamed to the television browser or mobile phone, so that if anyone is watching what the person is doing, they can watch what's happening in the game itself as well.

01:28:24.240 --> 01:28:31.320

Phil: That's good, because if you're watching VR, if you're participating in VR porn, that way when they come in the room, they see it on the big screen TV, they know to leave.

01:28:32.540 --> 01:28:33.960

Tom: And quietly leave, exactly.

01:28:34.220 --> 01:28:34.640

Phil: Awesome.

01:28:34.760 --> 01:28:36.480

Phil: Okay, alright.

01:28:36.580 --> 01:28:38.100

Tom: So that solves that problem.

01:28:38.160 --> 01:28:40.440

Phil: Except for the pants being down, but you know.

01:28:40.860 --> 01:28:41.220

Phil: Now...

01:28:42.580 --> 01:28:44.180

Tom: Just face away from the door.

01:28:44.420 --> 01:28:46.460

Phil: So that's your advice.

01:28:47.900 --> 01:28:49.080

Phil: So of all the game...

01:28:49.840 --> 01:28:52.500

Tom: Not based on experience, just theoretically.

01:28:52.740 --> 01:28:54.140

Phil: So of all the games...

01:28:54.740 --> 01:29:03.040

Tom: But as a social experience, porn or otherwise, VR is hilarious in the same way that the Wii is.

01:29:03.060 --> 01:29:08.960

Tom: I was not expecting that to be the case, given that one person is stuck in the game.

01:29:09.260 --> 01:29:12.640

Tom: But watching someone play VR, even if you can't...

01:29:12.700 --> 01:29:38.940

Tom: Arguably, I would actually add that the most entertaining thing is to watch someone playing VR without it being streamed to something, because it has the same sort of surreal and amusing effect as interacting with someone during a schizophrenic seizure or on some sort of psychoactive drug.

01:29:39.380 --> 01:29:42.560

Tom: It is a hilarious thing to behold.

01:29:42.840 --> 01:29:49.740

Phil: Okay, so of all the games that you've played, you want to tell us in great detail about one of them and it's Space Channel 5.

01:29:51.140 --> 01:29:59.760

Tom: The one last thing I will add on the headset itself is, as I said, you can play PC VR games via Wi-Fi.

01:30:00.260 --> 01:30:11.920

Tom: And using the crappy Telstra 5 GHz router, I was absolutely shocked how well it works.

01:30:13.160 --> 01:30:18.240

Tom: I anyway can play things like boxing games on it perfectly adequately.

01:30:18.540 --> 01:30:27.740

Tom: If I was doing something like sim racing, I would probably want to either try that on a 6 GHz router or use Link.

01:30:28.420 --> 01:30:36.800

Tom: But for anything that does not require the absolutely most precise things, my experience is that it is totally playable.

01:30:37.020 --> 01:30:44.980

Tom: And I would not play something like Half-Life Alex via Link Cable based on my experience with Superhot.

01:30:45.180 --> 01:31:01.460

Tom: The enjoyment you get from playing something wireless in something like a boxing game or Superhot, where you're able to move around with the only limitation on freedom being the space of room you're in, is just incredible.

01:31:02.000 --> 01:31:33.280

Tom: The totally ridiculous things you can do in Superhot, for example, of rolling around on the floor to pick up weapons enemies have dropped that you would not be able to do without this ridiculous freedom of movement, and also the totally absurd way you can dodge things through having the freedom of movement as well, makes playing any game like that with a lead feel just totally unplayable by comparison.

01:31:33.480 --> 01:31:43.700

Tom: And it is worth even on a 5, the just noticeable tiny bit of latency on a 5 gigahertz router, it is absolutely worth that without any question.

01:31:44.140 --> 01:31:55.580

Tom: So that is, to me, one of the things that did greatly put me off VR was actually the fact that you had to be tethered to something while playing them.

01:31:55.680 --> 01:32:00.440

Tom: That seemed to me like it would be a massive limitation and it absolutely was.

01:32:00.940 --> 01:32:41.140

Tom: As a primary VR headset outside of things like SIMS, I would, if you have the same suspicions that that might be an issue, I would argue that this is, without any other option, particularly at the price point, the best PC VR headset because you, through Air Lite VR, which is slightly awkward to set up, but once it's set up, it works perfectly, you can essentially have a high-resolution wireless PC VR headset for $488, which is just absolutely incredible.

01:32:41.900 --> 01:32:42.760

Phil: Right, indeed.

01:32:43.880 --> 01:32:44.720

Phil: So, on to the game.

01:32:46.400 --> 01:32:53.180

Tom: Yep, Space Channel 5, kinder, funky, newsflash VR, I think, is the full title.

01:32:53.980 --> 01:33:02.600

Tom: I, as I said, first played Space Channel 5 on a demo from a Ministry of Sound CD.

01:33:03.260 --> 01:33:12.120

Tom: Ministry of Sound was a long-running, may still be around, compilation of techno songs that was released yearly.

01:33:14.160 --> 01:33:17.700

Tom: And one year they packaged Space Channel 5 with it.

01:33:18.060 --> 01:33:27.440

Tom: And Space Channel 5 is by the original, was made, directed by Mizuguchi, famous for res, among many other things.

01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:44.860

Tom: And to me, Space Channel 5, in terms of the aesthetic and setting, was with the only two other competitors, Vib Ribbon and Parappa the Rapper, the greatest rhythm game ever.

01:33:45.620 --> 01:34:02.560

Tom: The music was this hilarious mix of electronica, basically comedy musical lyrics over the top of it that told you what to do, and had little snippets of dialogue related to the story.

01:34:02.980 --> 01:34:09.960

Tom: And the aesthetic was that of a 60s, 70s disco scene slash pop scene of the 60s.

01:34:10.500 --> 01:34:14.120

Tom: And Ulala was this amazingly charismatic character.

01:34:14.900 --> 01:34:20.220

Tom: The space setting was great, and I believe it also featured Michael Jackson in a cameo.

01:34:21.120 --> 01:34:23.940

Phil: That's right, Space Michael and Pudding.

01:34:24.300 --> 01:34:27.700

Phil: I played and owned all of the Space Channel 5 games.

01:34:27.720 --> 01:34:30.920

Phil: I think the original came out 20 years ago, in the year 2000.

01:34:32.060 --> 01:34:34.220

Tom: I think 1999, so even...

01:34:34.240 --> 01:34:40.020

Phil: I don't think it was that close to launch actually, because remember the system came out in September of 1999.

01:34:40.040 --> 01:34:43.960

Tom: I'm sure it launched in 1999, probably not outside of Japan though.

01:34:44.880 --> 01:34:45.580

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:34:45.740 --> 01:34:51.520

Phil: And anyone who's ever played it, all you have to do is say, up, down, up, down, shoot, shoot, shoot.

01:34:53.040 --> 01:34:55.060

Phil: And you'll know if someone's played it.

01:34:55.080 --> 01:34:57.100

Tom: You're immediately pressing buttons in your mind at that point.

01:34:58.020 --> 01:34:59.960

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:01.560

Tom: But the...

01:35:01.700 --> 01:35:02.000

Tom: gone.

01:35:02.300 --> 01:35:07.780

Phil: So this is not a redo of the original, or even the other games that came out on PlayStation 2.

01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:11.100

Tom: No, this is an all new experience made for VR.

01:35:11.900 --> 01:35:13.640

Phil: Is it by Mitsuguchi, who of course is...

01:35:13.720 --> 01:35:17.480

Tom: No, I do not think that he had any involvement in it, unfortunately.

01:35:17.500 --> 01:35:18.700

Tom: I don't think he even produced it.

01:35:19.480 --> 01:35:21.120

Tom: But I could be totally wrong there.

01:35:21.140 --> 01:35:21.700

Tom: Um...

01:35:23.080 --> 01:35:28.400

Tom: As I don't think it has a Wikipedia page, which is my source for all of my information.

01:35:30.420 --> 01:35:48.840

Phil: Um, yeah, that would be a shame if Mitz wasn't involved with it, because obviously he's gone on to do the amazing VR versions of Res and also Tetris Effect for the Sony PlayStation, which I assume is now on PC as a timed exclusive, so...

01:35:48.860 --> 01:35:50.520

Phil: Okay, so is it...

01:35:51.240 --> 01:35:56.800

Tom: and it is on Games Pass, but sadly the Games Pass version of Tetris Effect is non-VR.

01:35:57.860 --> 01:35:58.400

Phil: Okay.

01:35:59.080 --> 01:35:59.720

Phil: Okay, so...

01:36:00.120 --> 01:36:08.080

Tom: But Res and Tetris Effect in the VR form are both available on the Oculus Quest 2.

01:36:08.100 --> 01:36:08.220

Phil: Excellent.

01:36:08.560 --> 01:36:09.000

Phil: Excellent.

01:36:10.200 --> 01:36:11.320

Phil: Okay, so more about the game.

01:36:11.960 --> 01:36:22.140

Tom: Yep, so the one massive drawback to Space Channel 5 that I always had was the music was incredibly infectious and made you want to dance.

01:36:22.160 --> 01:36:27.100

Tom: The characters are dancing in the game, but all you're doing is pressing these fucking buttons.

01:36:28.080 --> 01:36:36.720

Tom: So as soon as the Wii appeared, the game I most wanted on the Wii was a Space Channel 5 for the Wii, and it never happened.

01:36:37.100 --> 01:36:41.900

Tom: Nor did a Kinect version of Space Channel 5 happen either.

01:36:42.900 --> 01:36:56.660

Tom: It has taken PlayStation VR, I'm pretty sure this was originally a PlayStation VR game, for us to finally get a Space Channel 5 game in which, rather than pressing up, down, left, right, etc.

01:36:56.760 --> 01:37:00.260

Tom: you were dancing up, down, left, right, etc.

01:37:00.460 --> 01:37:00.980

Tom: instead.

01:37:01.320 --> 01:37:05.060

Tom: And it works just as well as you would imagine it to.

01:37:06.560 --> 01:37:22.220

Tom: There are some occasions where the tracking, and it's absolutely the game's fault, not the controller's, the tracking is slightly awkward and does not accurately get what you were doing and thinks you've done the wrong move.

01:37:22.380 --> 01:37:30.960

Tom: For the most part, though, that is, and this is why I say it's the game's fault, it's saying you've done the move when you've actually fucked up.

01:37:32.100 --> 01:37:41.600

Tom: And you've started doing the wrong move and ended up sort of half doing the move to try and correct yourself, and it will accept that as being correct.

01:37:41.620 --> 01:37:55.780

Tom: So it is very forgiving to the point where it will take away some of the feeling of tactility from it, but that's a minor thing and doesn't really matter.

01:37:57.340 --> 01:38:18.920

Tom: Being able to dance in Space Channel 5, copying the characters' dancing and dancing with the allies is just a tremendously gratifying and satisfying experience that for me anyway has been waiting to be realized since I first played Space Channel 5.

01:38:20.300 --> 01:38:31.480

Tom: Compared to the original game, I would say the music is not quite on the same level, but it is very much on brand and tremendously enjoyable.

01:38:31.760 --> 01:38:48.200

Tom: The other minus point is it's about half the length of the original Space Channel 5, which was already an extremely short game, but for a rhythm game like this, I don't think the length really matters that much.

01:38:48.220 --> 01:38:54.260

Tom: I've played through the main campaign twice already and will be playing it more.

01:38:55.600 --> 01:39:10.300

Tom: And it has both the Japanese and English dub, which is a massive coup to have, because the singing is worth experiencing, both in Japanese and English, and both have a little bit of a different tone to them.

01:39:10.320 --> 01:39:28.380

Tom: And there's also a very, very long level that goes for like 15 minutes or something, so basically half the full campaign, which is really fun to play repeatedly and try and get a perfect score on.

01:39:29.820 --> 01:39:44.500

Tom: And it is, if you are a fan of Space Channel 5 and have always wanted to be an actual dancing game, which is to me totally logical, and a rhythm game, it is just an amazing realisation of that possibility.

01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:54.560

Tom: In spite of the minor issues like the forgivingness of your dance moves and incompetence and the shortness of the campaign.

01:39:54.940 --> 01:39:58.540

Phil: It's just as fun and funny as the original?

01:39:58.820 --> 01:40:01.420

Tom: It's significantly more fun than the original.

01:40:02.040 --> 01:40:02.820

Phil: Is Pudding in it?

01:40:03.660 --> 01:40:04.660

Tom: Is there Pudding in it?

01:40:04.680 --> 01:40:09.540

Phil: No, Pudding is the brunette from the game series.

01:40:09.860 --> 01:40:11.640

Phil: She was the competing reporter.

01:40:13.340 --> 01:40:15.020

Tom: In this one, I don't think she's in it.

01:40:15.040 --> 01:40:24.740

Tom: In this one, you are actually playing as one of two junior reporters who are understudies to You La La.

01:40:25.380 --> 01:40:26.320

Tom: This is a spoiler.

01:40:26.340 --> 01:40:32.600

Tom: In a very touching moment, she passes on the microphone to you.

01:40:32.920 --> 01:40:34.940

Phil: Is she wearing her usual orange dress?

01:40:35.160 --> 01:40:35.880

Tom: Yes, she is.

01:40:36.640 --> 01:40:43.080

Tom: And can I just add, I'm totally blameless in this, my sister insisted I do this.

01:40:43.240 --> 01:40:43.900

Tom: Upskirt?

01:40:44.240 --> 01:40:47.640

Tom: Yes, you can lie down on the ground and upskirt You La La.

01:40:48.200 --> 01:40:48.740

Phil: I knew it.

01:40:48.860 --> 01:40:50.440

Phil: I knew this is where that was going.

01:40:52.340 --> 01:40:55.240

Phil: I'm not going to ask any follow-up questions relating to that.

01:40:57.540 --> 01:40:59.600

Tom: Sadly, you cannot touch the characters.

01:40:59.620 --> 01:41:01.260

Tom: My sister was very disappointed in that.

01:41:02.420 --> 01:41:09.420

Tom: But in the end credits, another great moment, you get to high-five everyone with haptic feedback.

01:41:09.460 --> 01:41:12.540

Phil: Sweet.

01:41:12.880 --> 01:41:15.880

Phil: Has You La La aged 20 years?

01:41:16.380 --> 01:41:18.680

Phil: Is she now 50 something?

01:41:19.100 --> 01:41:19.440

Tom: No.

01:41:20.020 --> 01:41:23.540

Tom: Though she may be a very young-looking 50-year-old.

01:41:24.020 --> 01:41:27.980

Tom: It is of course a very cartoony graphic style, so it's hard to tell.

01:41:28.120 --> 01:41:31.760

Phil: Because newsreaders usually age out when they're 26.

01:41:33.360 --> 01:41:35.860

Tom: That's because they begin looking tremendously old.

01:41:36.600 --> 01:41:47.800

Tom: Because they're trying to look so young that the stress of it results in tremendous worry lines, and basically their entire nervous system is destroyed.

01:41:47.820 --> 01:41:51.400

Phil: I think the stress comes from reading the garbage I have to read.

01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:53.880

Phil: Gosh, I had one more question.

01:41:53.900 --> 01:41:58.000

Phil: No, I guess I'm going to have to just fold on that.

01:41:58.080 --> 01:42:01.400

Phil: So, okay, well, that sounds tremendously great.

01:42:02.740 --> 01:42:04.560

Phil: I really just want to get one of these things now.

01:42:04.760 --> 01:42:07.360

Phil: Are you going to really recommend that I get one without using one?

01:42:09.520 --> 01:42:16.920

Tom: Well, it depends because if you are willing, able to resell it, I would say yes.

01:42:16.940 --> 01:42:17.800

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:42:18.300 --> 01:42:18.940

Tom: Absolutely.

01:42:18.960 --> 01:42:19.620

Phil: That's a good idea.

01:42:20.140 --> 01:42:25.060

Tom: Just confirm that the resale prices are good on eBay.

01:42:25.860 --> 01:42:28.700

Tom: If there's anyone reselling them and I would say go for it.

01:42:28.900 --> 01:42:30.740

Phil: And would you think, well, they're not hard to get.

01:42:30.920 --> 01:42:32.440

Phil: I went to amazon.com.au.

01:42:32.460 --> 01:42:36.600

Phil: They said they had two new and one used available.

01:42:38.300 --> 01:42:47.040

Tom: They must have been restocking it because on Amazon for the smaller version, at least, when I purchased that was available.

01:42:47.220 --> 01:42:49.900

Tom: The only place in Australia was officially from Oculus.

01:42:53.000 --> 01:42:58.380

Tom: And if you do go the Oculus route, the postage from Ireland is surprisingly fast.

01:42:58.580 --> 01:42:59.100

Phil: What?

01:42:59.280 --> 01:43:00.400

Phil: They come from Ireland?

01:43:00.660 --> 01:43:03.620

Tom: It shipped directly from their tax haven to your door.

01:43:04.400 --> 01:43:06.920

Phil: How's that work in this COVID society where there's no planes?

01:43:07.800 --> 01:43:11.480

Tom: I don't know, but it got here within a few days from Ireland.

01:43:11.620 --> 01:43:12.840

Phil: Maybe they use Zucker Boots.

01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:24.440

Tom: And bear in mind, actually, Ireland has been one of the places that has been dealing with COVID competently, so that would probably help with the fast shipping.

01:43:26.800 --> 01:43:36.460

Phil: Just speaking about the early 2000s, I've got the latest issue of Retro Gamer in front of me, and I'm looking at the top five games for PlayStation 2, Xbox and GameCube.

01:43:37.500 --> 01:43:39.960

Phil: I'll just go through them, and you can just tell me if you remember them or not.

01:43:39.980 --> 01:43:49.980

Phil: But what's interesting about them is that there's only one game in common between the PlayStation 2 and the Xbox, and there's one game in common between the Xbox and the GameCube.

01:43:50.000 --> 01:43:56.400

Phil: But besides that, out of these 15 games, they're all completely unique games for the different platforms.

01:43:56.420 --> 01:44:01.260

Phil: And of course, if you look at game sales today, there's just basically Destiny, Fortnite.

01:44:01.320 --> 01:44:06.440

Phil: It's just these blanket games that are across every single category, and there's a few exclusives.

01:44:07.120 --> 01:44:20.200

Phil: And I do think that exclusives are good for the consumer, ultimately, because it forces developers to produce something that requires some thought for some reason.

01:44:20.240 --> 01:44:25.680

Phil: So, like PlayStation 2, the number one game we talked about last time was Itoy Play.

01:44:26.900 --> 01:44:29.180

Phil: The number two game was a game called The Great Escape.

01:44:30.600 --> 01:44:31.560

Phil: Have you ever played that?

01:44:32.540 --> 01:44:33.560

Tom: No, I haven't.

01:44:33.780 --> 01:44:35.400

Tom: It's not related to the film either.

01:44:35.420 --> 01:44:36.160

Phil: No, it's not.

01:44:36.180 --> 01:44:44.820

Phil: It's really somewhat, in terms of its appearance, crappy World War II game where you're a prisoner of war and you're trying to escape.

01:44:46.060 --> 01:44:47.840

Phil: It's actually a very good game.

01:44:47.860 --> 01:44:53.200

Tom: There's also The Great Escape and Infinity Runner as well.

01:44:53.220 --> 01:44:55.960

Phil: Yeah, this one's called The Great Escape from SCI.

01:44:56.060 --> 01:44:58.380

Phil: It was released in November of 2003.

01:45:00.120 --> 01:45:01.980

Phil: In any case, that's the number two game.

01:45:02.120 --> 01:45:04.260

Phil: Number three game I have never even heard about.

01:45:04.280 --> 01:45:07.120

Phil: Well, I'm pretty sure I have, but I've never played it.

01:45:07.160 --> 01:45:12.400

Phil: Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb for PlayStation 2 from LucasArts.

01:45:13.980 --> 01:45:15.060

Tom: I've not played that either.

01:45:15.080 --> 01:45:15.920

Phil: Yeah, me neither.

01:45:16.540 --> 01:45:18.820

Phil: Number four, Tomb Raider, Angel of Darkness.

01:45:18.860 --> 01:45:20.200

Tom: Did you say PS2?

01:45:20.200 --> 01:45:20.540

Phil: Yeah.

01:45:21.180 --> 01:45:29.720

Tom: Because there was also that PS3 Indiana Jones that was one of the most hyped games ever that fell off the face of the earth.

01:45:29.740 --> 01:45:31.380

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:45:31.620 --> 01:45:34.560

Phil: Yeah, so Tomb Raider, Angel of Darkness, I think that's one of the bad ones.

01:45:35.240 --> 01:45:38.720

Phil: And number five was Socom, US Navy Seals.

01:45:39.320 --> 01:45:45.680

Phil: So on Xbox, there was Star Wars Kotor, the original Knights of the Old Republic, which was an exclusive.

01:45:46.440 --> 01:45:49.980

Phil: Ghost Recon Island Thunder, which I don't remember.

01:45:50.900 --> 01:45:56.640

Phil: FIFA 2003, The Great Escape and Medal of Honor Frontline.

01:45:58.800 --> 01:45:59.860

Phil: All good memories there.

01:46:00.060 --> 01:46:02.920

Phil: And on the GameCube, number one was Star Wars Rogue Liga.

01:46:03.420 --> 01:46:04.680

Phil: Rogue League leader.

01:46:06.000 --> 01:46:09.320

Phil: Number two, Medal of Honor Frontline, that's the one it has in common.

01:46:09.780 --> 01:46:11.180

Phil: Number three, Wind Waker.

01:46:11.720 --> 01:46:14.820

Phil: Number four, Sonic Adventure DX, which is horrible.

01:46:15.420 --> 01:46:18.900

Phil: And number five, PNO3, starring Vanessa Schneider.

01:46:20.280 --> 01:46:24.480

Phil: So, yeah, I just was taken aback by the diversity of games there.

01:46:24.660 --> 01:46:27.040

Phil: So 17 years ago, hard to believe.

01:46:27.880 --> 01:46:30.080

Tom: And a lot of them weren't exclusives.

01:46:31.320 --> 01:46:33.000

Tom: I thought you said a lot were exclusives.

01:46:33.020 --> 01:46:33.660

Phil: Well, a lot.

01:46:33.720 --> 01:46:37.760

Phil: Wind Waker, Star Wars Rogue Leader, PNO3.

01:46:37.780 --> 01:46:38.560

Tom: PNO3.

01:46:38.580 --> 01:46:45.100

Tom: There are a lot of GameCube exclusives here, but once you go outside of Nintendo, there's far fewer.

01:46:45.120 --> 01:46:52.820

Phil: Yeah, like the Xbox certainly only had Kotor as an exclusive, and Itoy, I'm not sure how many of those.

01:46:52.840 --> 01:46:53.760

Tom: Well, that's an exclusive.

01:46:54.100 --> 01:46:57.480

Phil: Yeah, well, Itoy and Socom are definitely exclusives.

01:46:59.100 --> 01:47:00.520

Phil: So, but very diverse.

01:47:00.780 --> 01:47:03.040

Phil: Like, you know, I guess the people that were playing on a different...

01:47:03.640 --> 01:47:08.500

Phil: Back then, I mean, it really did reflect the different type of gamer on the different type of consoles.

01:47:10.160 --> 01:47:19.620

Phil: And of course, you still have that sort of separation with the PC switch, but you certainly, I don't think you have that separation anymore between the PlayStation and Microsoft cams.

01:47:20.800 --> 01:47:41.380

Tom: That reminds me, the one last thing I would add on VR is during my research, not unlike my experience in mobile gaming, it is very noticeable and weird the higher quantity of women involved in VR commentary and information.

01:47:44.760 --> 01:47:52.820

Tom: And I would suggest that the reason for that is the crossover with general tech interest.

01:47:54.380 --> 01:48:15.640

Tom: So for instance, in mobile phone stuff or even laptops and things like that, tech coverage, you would find a lot more women doing commentary than you do in pure gaming PC style hardware and obviously games console coverage.

01:48:17.520 --> 01:48:29.140

Phil: Okay, well speaking of a game that is available on pretty much everything, in one that both you and I picked up in Itch's Sale of the Century, is a game called One Night Stand.

01:48:29.160 --> 01:48:37.380

Phil: It's available on Windows, Mac, Linux, Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, which surprised me how ubiquitous it is.

01:48:37.400 --> 01:48:43.440

Phil: It's a game that came out originally for Windows in 2016.

01:48:44.380 --> 01:48:51.400

Phil: It's a visual novel, but made by a developer that I don't know that they've done much more, if anything, called Kinmoku.

01:48:52.180 --> 01:48:55.360

Phil: And I don't even know anything about them, where they're from.

01:48:56.620 --> 01:49:10.300

Phil: But basically, it's a very short visual novel with the point-and-click adventure motif, and it's made for multiple playthroughs.

01:49:12.240 --> 01:49:14.020

Phil: I guess I'll do the setup for it.

01:49:14.280 --> 01:49:22.400

Phil: You basically wake up after what appears to be a night of heavy drinking, and you don't know where you are.

01:49:22.460 --> 01:49:35.960

Phil: You look around, and there's a lady in the bed next to you, and you have to try and figure out who she is and how you got into that situation by looking at clues that are available to you in the room.

01:49:37.160 --> 01:49:57.080

Phil: She will leave every now and then, which lets you explore the room a little bit more, and then there's a different outcome depending on how you interact with her on the basis of what you've discovered and where you want to take the relationship or not want to take the relationship.

01:49:57.080 --> 01:49:58.420

Phil: Is that a pretty good setup?

01:49:58.680 --> 01:50:01.560

Tom: It is, and I will just interject with Wikipedia here.

01:50:02.260 --> 01:50:18.160

Tom: It was developed by specifically Lucy Blundell, and it was her first game, in fact, or rather an iteration on a game she made with a friend at a game jam.

01:50:18.320 --> 01:50:25.220

Tom: And she was inspired by a young man she saw in a disheveled state on public transport.

01:50:25.240 --> 01:50:30.680

Tom: And she imagined that he was in this state after a drunken one night stand.

01:50:32.540 --> 01:50:34.940

Phil: Imagination is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

01:50:35.000 --> 01:50:35.540

Tom: Yes, it is.

01:50:35.560 --> 01:50:39.660

Phil: And this game does lead you to think differently.

01:50:40.220 --> 01:51:01.260

Phil: Certainly if you take it on face value, the story is you went out, you left the drinking partner you were with, your mate, to go and spend time with this woman, and then you both ended up in bed together, and now you've woken up, and are going to have a brief interaction and go home.

01:51:01.280 --> 01:51:04.160

Phil: I mean, on the face of it, that's pretty much what's going to happen.

01:51:04.180 --> 01:51:15.420

Phil: But as you start to look at some of the clues, they indicate that perhaps that's not the straight story, which compels you to want to play through this thing multiple times.

01:51:15.440 --> 01:51:18.480

Phil: And you've certainly played it through more than I.

01:51:19.260 --> 01:51:23.380

Phil: I've really only played it through, like, one and a half times before I was interrupted.

01:51:24.940 --> 01:51:33.060

Phil: So you could probably give a fuller account as to the game play and also the different outcomes.

01:51:34.400 --> 01:51:43.880

Tom: I've unlocked about 50% of the outcomes, ranging from the amicable to the comically disastrous.

01:51:45.560 --> 01:51:53.040

Tom: And when you wake up, there's basically two objectives, both of which are optional.

01:51:53.820 --> 01:52:00.520

Tom: One is to get the hell out of there, and the other is to find out what's going on.

01:52:00.540 --> 01:52:11.800

Tom: So to achieve both, if you want to get out of there, you wake up naked, so you have to find your clothing or other clothing that will fit you in one of the comical moments of the game.

01:52:13.900 --> 01:52:39.440

Tom: And to find out what's going on, essentially you look around, there are things in the room that are highlighted that you can click on and look through for more information on the female protagonist, as it is her room, and that will help you in one, finding stuff out about her, and two, trying to work out what happened the previous night.

01:52:40.080 --> 01:52:56.380

Tom: And the most enjoyable part of the game to me was definitely looking around the room and inspecting all the items, rather than the figuring out part of it or trying to get a specific outcome.

01:52:57.000 --> 01:53:08.000

Tom: One of the most enjoyable parts of any adventure game is looking through everything that you find on a new screen and figuring out what's happening.

01:53:08.320 --> 01:53:25.380

Tom: And given the setting of this, it does have the feeling of intimacy, but also weirdness given the situation you're in of having no memory of how you ended up there, of being in another person's room or even another person's house in general.

01:53:25.920 --> 01:53:30.560

Tom: And the curiosity that that naturally engenders or at least does in me.

01:53:31.420 --> 01:53:34.320

Tom: So that part of the game is really enjoyable.

01:53:34.660 --> 01:53:39.800

Tom: And the characters, at least to begin with, are pretty amusing.

01:53:40.280 --> 01:53:44.780

Tom: And you have some control over how your character comes across.

01:53:45.900 --> 01:54:00.680

Tom: For instance, you can, when you're texting your friend about what happened, if you tell him that you've woken up in bed with a random woman who won't believe you because you are not apparently usually very good with the ladies.

01:54:00.960 --> 01:54:11.500

Tom: So you have the option of very creepily taking a photo of her and texting it to him, which results in some potentially interesting permutations if you do that.

01:54:12.880 --> 01:54:21.040

Tom: And looking through a room, you can find stuff like romance novels and things like that and talk to her about them.

01:54:21.560 --> 01:54:30.280

Tom: And you can also look at stuff that she wouldn't want you looking at and also ask her about them, leading to some comical conversations.

01:54:31.380 --> 01:54:34.520

Tom: So that part of the game is very enjoyable.

01:54:34.580 --> 01:54:39.840

Tom: And I played to unlocking about half the endings.

01:54:40.160 --> 01:54:57.900

Tom: But once I had ended up inspecting everything in the room and going through most of the dialogue options, I don't think the characters are really that interesting enough for me to continue playing to try and unlock the rest of the endings.

01:54:58.200 --> 01:55:14.240

Tom: And that's partly due to the good environmental storytelling because lots of the character stuff comes through from the room of the protagonist rather than the dialogue, which makes it all the more enjoyable.

01:55:14.460 --> 01:55:27.080

Tom: But it does then mean that it's less interesting trying to find different dialogue options to get different endings once you have found everything in the room itself.

01:55:27.140 --> 01:55:28.560

Tom: At least for me, that was the case.

01:55:29.380 --> 01:55:31.080

Phil: Is there a real ending?

01:55:31.120 --> 01:55:34.500

Phil: Or is there a good ending?

01:55:34.520 --> 01:55:36.380

Phil: I mean, you know what I'm saying?

01:55:36.400 --> 01:55:38.340

Phil: Or is it just...

01:55:38.360 --> 01:55:42.400

Phil: They're all equally good endings insofar as the developer is concerned.

01:55:42.420 --> 01:55:42.980

Tom: Well, I was...

01:55:43.360 --> 01:55:45.600

Tom: To me, they're all equally good endings.

01:55:45.620 --> 01:55:52.940

Tom: And given the creative inspiration for it, I think any ending would fit the theme of that.

01:55:53.320 --> 01:56:02.120

Tom: But I assume that the hardest ending to get anyway would be a romantic relationship beginning from this.

01:56:02.140 --> 01:56:09.680

Tom: And that that might be not necessarily the canon or proper ending, but the main ending that you're meant to try and figure out how to get.

01:56:10.140 --> 01:56:13.540

Tom: The closest to which I've got is friend-zoned.

01:56:15.040 --> 01:56:32.620

Phil: And now this is not a spoiler because this is speculation, but is there an ending in which she has drugged you and then interfered with your contraception so that towards the goal that she wanted a surrogate child but no relationship with the father?

01:56:33.780 --> 01:56:34.840

Tom: Well, I hope there is.

01:56:35.800 --> 01:56:36.480

Tom: But I don't know.

01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:41.220

Tom: And there are suspicious tablets on the bed stand.

01:56:41.580 --> 01:56:43.380

Phil: That's what led me to think this.

01:56:44.420 --> 01:56:50.160

Phil: And as the guy was walking away from my ending, he thought, oh, well, at least I use protection.

01:56:50.160 --> 01:56:52.380

Phil: And then I thought, dun, dun, dun.

01:56:53.060 --> 01:56:53.740

Tom: Or did I?

01:56:54.000 --> 01:56:54.880

Phil: Or did I?

01:56:54.900 --> 01:56:57.220

Phil: And this certainly...

01:56:57.460 --> 01:57:11.740

Tom: There is a condom wrapper on the ground, but they did not decide to go the graphic confirmation route of a used condom, which you could test, just to be sure.

01:57:13.020 --> 01:57:15.760

Phil: I looked up Lucy Blundell.

01:57:15.780 --> 01:57:16.940

Phil: She is still developing.

01:57:16.960 --> 01:57:19.440

Phil: She's currently working on a game for Memories.

01:57:19.780 --> 01:57:21.960

Phil: And yeah, she looks like the character.

01:57:22.440 --> 01:57:24.700

Phil: She roughly looks like the character in the game.

01:57:24.720 --> 01:57:29.960

Tom: Well, it is rotoscoped from her own performances.

01:57:30.080 --> 01:57:32.760

Phil: Yeah, so I did not know that it was from her own performances.

01:57:32.780 --> 01:57:39.880

Phil: So rotoscoping would be familiar to most people from that movie, music video from the 80s by A-Ha, Take On Me.

01:57:41.180 --> 01:57:43.540

Phil: That's pretty much what it looks like.

01:57:43.560 --> 01:57:46.160

Tom: So also Prince of Persia.

01:57:46.820 --> 01:57:50.040

Phil: Yeah, rotoscoping, yeah, from Prince of Persia in a different style.

01:57:50.060 --> 01:57:59.260

Phil: I mean, yeah, the art style is basically hand drawn, lead pencil style looking thing with maybe some light pastel work.

01:58:01.020 --> 01:58:03.580

Phil: But yeah, look, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

01:58:03.600 --> 01:58:04.300

Phil: I thought it was good.

01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:07.980

Phil: It was nominated for an IGF award, whatever that is.

01:58:08.000 --> 01:58:09.800

Phil: It has a 73 on Metacritic.

01:58:11.660 --> 01:58:12.780

Phil: Very, very short game.

01:58:13.220 --> 01:58:21.800

Phil: And well, it doesn't necessarily have to be, but I imagine if you went full hog and tried to get all the endings, it's probably more like a three or four hour experience.

01:58:22.680 --> 01:58:23.380

Tom: I'd say so.

01:58:23.400 --> 01:58:30.660

Tom: I've unlocked half the endings that I said, and I've played for about an hour or two.

01:58:31.280 --> 01:58:34.720

Phil: And once you've played through it once, you can fast forward through the dialogue.

01:58:35.380 --> 01:58:42.620

Tom: That's right, but that is something that I had one issue with, is that the fast forwarding is not nearly fast enough.

01:58:42.620 --> 01:59:00.040

Tom: It would be great if you could literally skip between dialogue threads, where you need to make a decision that might lead in a different direction in just a single click, rather than having to sit there and watching the dialogue scroll through at a fast pace.

01:59:00.160 --> 01:59:05.780

Phil: I'm not sure if you shared my experience, but one thing that was frustrating for me was that the mouse clicking was not...

01:59:06.280 --> 01:59:07.800

Phil: you didn't have to be precise with it.

01:59:08.120 --> 01:59:13.300

Phil: So sometimes I was clicking through the dialogue, and then it would automatically just...

01:59:13.500 --> 01:59:20.420

Phil: as soon as the dialogue ended, it puts up the dialogue, the choices of response, and it would just pick one of them for me.

01:59:22.020 --> 01:59:22.820

Phil: I don't know, because I was...

01:59:23.360 --> 01:59:26.080

Phil: because I wasn't trying to click anywhere near the dialogue choices.

01:59:26.100 --> 01:59:28.360

Phil: I was way up in the top corner of the screen sort of thing.

01:59:28.940 --> 01:59:30.560

Tom: I did not have that issue, I don't think.

01:59:30.580 --> 01:59:32.760

Phil: Yeah, it happened to me a couple of times, so...

01:59:33.680 --> 01:59:38.260

Phil: Okay, anything else you want to say about The Game before we close out the podcast?

01:59:39.820 --> 01:59:50.320

Tom: That's probably it, but I do hope that there is a potentially disturbing subplot available as one of the endings, but sadly, we're unlikely to find out.

01:59:51.720 --> 01:59:54.660

Tom: We should of course add that we got this, even though it is free.

01:59:57.000 --> 02:00:00.200

Tom: I'm personally more pleased to have you here today.

02:00:00.260 --> 02:00:03.660

Tom: We've got this in the sale of the century, Dan have played it for free.

02:00:04.060 --> 02:00:04.820

Phil: Yes, me too.

02:00:05.020 --> 02:00:09.540

Phil: I feel like I've given the developer, given back to the developer and the development community.

02:00:09.720 --> 02:00:14.500

Tom: And it is in fact $2.25 on Steam now, 50% off.

02:00:14.520 --> 02:00:16.640

Tom: So apparently it's not free anymore.

02:00:16.700 --> 02:00:22.800

Phil: Yeah, it's available on Switch very recently, and it's currently, according to a Twitter feed, 20% off.

02:00:23.240 --> 02:00:26.120

Phil: So now's a good time to try it, and it has my recommendation.

02:00:28.280 --> 02:00:31.200

Tom: Are we going to give it a score from the Dice of Destiny?

02:00:31.220 --> 02:00:34.260

Phil: Well, I haven't got my cat sound effects machine.

02:00:36.840 --> 02:00:39.460

Tom: Make some cat noises yourself.

02:00:39.600 --> 02:00:40.860

Phil: Okay, I can try that.

02:00:40.880 --> 02:00:43.060

Phil: Why don't you get the Dice of Destiny while I get the cat noises?

02:00:43.080 --> 02:00:44.380

Tom: My die is ready to go.

02:00:44.400 --> 02:00:46.000

Phil: Okay, so...

02:00:47.420 --> 02:00:48.520

Tom: Well, that's unfortunate.

02:00:49.160 --> 02:00:51.840

Tom: The Dice of Destiny has not been kind today.

02:00:52.420 --> 02:00:54.080

Tom: It gets a one out of ten.

02:00:55.020 --> 02:00:56.000

Phil: A one out of ten?

02:00:56.380 --> 02:00:57.260

Tom: One out of ten.

02:00:57.860 --> 02:01:00.260

Phil: Okay, let me get the cat thing here.

02:01:00.620 --> 02:01:07.480

Tom: So, it is officially better than the Oculus Quest 2, and it does not require a Facebook account for you to be able to play it.

02:01:07.960 --> 02:01:08.420

Phil: Okay.

02:01:09.860 --> 02:01:11.800

Phil: Let's see, I'm gonna roll my cat.

02:01:16.460 --> 02:01:17.000

Phil: Okay.

02:01:19.180 --> 02:01:19.660

Phil: So, that's...

02:01:21.160 --> 02:01:23.720

Phil: My cat gave it eight and a half meows out of ten.

02:01:24.740 --> 02:01:27.060

Tom: I think I heard about two and a half meows.

02:01:27.080 --> 02:01:31.320

Phil: Yeah, but you've got to expand a scale out into a ten-point scale.

02:01:31.340 --> 02:01:35.280

Tom: So, in cat years, you're saying the meows go by cat years.

02:01:35.480 --> 02:01:40.300

Phil: Look, I'd give this game a solid five out of ten on my own scale.

02:01:40.380 --> 02:01:40.880

Phil: How's that?

02:01:42.760 --> 02:01:50.080

Phil: It's well executed, it's a good idea, but there's not enough there to really sink your teeth into.

02:01:50.360 --> 02:01:58.720

Phil: It's a good fun development project, but I wouldn't call it a fleshed out game that I'd pay a whole bunch of money for.

02:01:59.120 --> 02:02:03.800

Tom: Yep, and it's not expensive, so it is certainly worth playing for a few dollars.

02:02:03.920 --> 02:02:05.420

Phil: Yeah, yeah, it's worth your time.

02:02:05.440 --> 02:02:08.640

Tom: For a few cents as it is valued in the sale of the century.

02:02:08.660 --> 02:02:09.540

Phil: Yes, yes.

02:02:09.780 --> 02:02:21.520

Tom: But I believe the final score for you then is either two and a half meows out of ten, or eight and a half meows out of ten in cat years, or five out of ten on the human scale.

02:02:21.540 --> 02:02:24.400

Phil: On the Phil Fogg scale, right.

02:02:24.420 --> 02:02:26.040

Phil: So anything else before we close out the show?

02:02:27.340 --> 02:02:30.020

Tom: Yes, I read We the Living.

02:02:30.760 --> 02:02:34.120

Tom: So I've now read every single Ayn Rand novel.

02:02:34.420 --> 02:02:35.620

Phil: Oh, okay, yeah.

02:02:36.580 --> 02:02:42.960

Tom: And like reading Jordan Peterson and Brandon B.

02:02:42.980 --> 02:02:59.420

Tom: McCartney's self-help books, I learned something from it that had been bothering and confusing me about this style of rugged individualism and might-make-right that is popular not just in Ayn Rand but all over the place.

02:02:59.560 --> 02:03:02.080

Tom: But reading We the Living, it finally clicked in my head.

02:03:02.360 --> 02:03:12.920

Tom: Because in these books, and it's not as bad in her later novels, though it is there in a slightly different way, the protagonists are usually total losers.

02:03:13.640 --> 02:03:15.320

Tom: Like they're crap at what they're doing.

02:03:16.180 --> 02:03:18.320

Tom: Again, this doesn't apply to Atlas Shrugged.

02:03:18.500 --> 02:03:24.020

Tom: They're crap at what they're doing, and they usually end up failing in the end in some way or other.

02:03:24.040 --> 02:03:42.460

Tom: And that does apply to the founded head of Atlas Shrugged, where all of those people, while they seemingly succeeded in their goals as individuals in the case of the conglomerate of individualists, they didn't succeed as individuals.

02:03:42.580 --> 02:03:44.280

Tom: They succeeded as a group of individuals.

02:03:44.920 --> 02:04:00.120

Tom: And in the case of the great architect, the visionary maverick artist, he was a total fucking failure because he required the outside validation of a court of law through a jury to be able to feel that he had succeeded.

02:04:00.140 --> 02:04:16.580

Tom: So again, as a moral tale in defense of individualism and pure belief in oneself and one's own strength to cope with the world and achieve things, they show that you can't do that.

02:04:17.020 --> 02:04:46.740

Tom: And in this book, which is set in a dystopic description of the Soviet Union, which specifically just after the revolution, so in the early 1900s, and can you believe that in the Soviet Union, things must have been so bad because the character, the protagonist, is a struggling university student dealing with things like unsupportive teachers.

02:04:48.020 --> 02:04:52.320

Tom: She's living in semi-poverty as a university student.

02:04:53.180 --> 02:04:54.360

Tom: Can you imagine?

02:04:55.580 --> 02:04:56.740

Tom: Can you imagine that?

02:04:56.840 --> 02:05:02.100

Tom: It's just horrifically disturbing that this could have occurred in the Soviet Union.

02:05:03.380 --> 02:05:07.860

Tom: And it ends with her, spoiler alert, failing to escape.

02:05:08.980 --> 02:05:10.140

Tom: Failing to escape.

02:05:10.420 --> 02:05:13.240

Tom: So as an individual, she fucking fails.

02:05:13.640 --> 02:05:29.600

Tom: But I realize that in these books, which are all ultimately about self-pitying and whining and begging someone else to tell you that you have value, and I believe, I'm happy to tell Ayn Rand that she has value.

02:05:30.180 --> 02:05:38.400

Tom: She's a really honest artist, and she is, read her short books, because you don't need to read the long ones, but they are interesting.

02:05:38.740 --> 02:05:43.280

Tom: We The Living is shorter, short enough to read, and Anthem is really short.

02:05:43.300 --> 02:05:43.980

Tom: Just read that.

02:05:44.280 --> 02:05:46.200

Tom: It contains everything and all the other writing.

02:05:46.800 --> 02:05:58.460

Tom: But so the protagonists are losers, and they're begging for outside validation, but they're not getting it because everyone thinks they're crap, because they are crap, right?

02:05:59.540 --> 02:06:03.420

Tom: And they fail in the end and do not get rewarded because they fail.

02:06:03.740 --> 02:06:07.140

Tom: And that's the vision that Ayn Rand has of the world.

02:06:07.500 --> 02:06:09.160

Tom: So how can you solve this?

02:06:09.600 --> 02:06:22.900

Tom: Well, the obvious solution to this is to reject that you need outside validation and that other people's standards should dictate what you define as success.

02:06:23.200 --> 02:06:40.280

Tom: But Ayn Rand and other individuals like this do not have either the moral fortitude or the personal strength to actually do this because obviously validation is rewarding and a very human thing and something that most people require to various degrees.

02:06:40.520 --> 02:07:24.600

Tom: So their solution rather than that is essentially to have a character that losers can relate to and set them in a world where they don't get the praise and validation from other people that they deserve, but say rather than it's because you obviously are a failure, which you have to be a failure so that failures can relate to you and become invested in the story, it's because it's in a collectivist society, the Soviet Union, so somehow their validation doesn't matter because you're an individual and your failure doesn't matter because, well, that's never explained.

02:07:24.720 --> 02:07:38.200

Tom: But the basic point is, I finally now understand why in all her books the protagonists are losers and total failures in the end according to their own personal standards.

02:07:38.220 --> 02:07:58.160

Tom: And it is because they have to be relatable, one, to herself and her own personal character, and two, to the audience of the books that are going to be into this, which explains why, supposedly anyway, teenagers are one of her main audiences.

02:07:58.420 --> 02:08:07.460

Tom: Because if there's any period in most people's lives that people require a huge amount of validation, it is certainly when they are teenagers.

02:08:07.640 --> 02:08:18.080

Tom: But simultaneously, teenagers, with all the shit they're dealing with, are total fucking idiots a lot of the time and complete and utter losers.

02:08:18.760 --> 02:08:21.820

Tom: So, unlikely to be receiving validation from anyone.

02:08:23.420 --> 02:08:25.100

Phil: That's actually a very good insight.

02:08:25.740 --> 02:08:30.300

Phil: Not just about teenagers, but I mean about her audience in herself.

02:08:31.540 --> 02:08:34.180

Phil: Okay, so here I thought you were going to be nice to old Anne.

02:08:35.460 --> 02:08:38.420

Tom: Well, that book I would recommend to people.

02:08:39.120 --> 02:08:40.040

Tom: What's it called again?

02:08:40.060 --> 02:08:44.360

Tom: Again, it's only like 300 pages, as opposed to 3,000.

02:08:45.220 --> 02:08:49.740

Tom: So it won't waste weeks of your life.

02:08:51.220 --> 02:08:57.020

Tom: And the writing in it is actually, I think, other than Anthem, her best writing.

02:08:57.080 --> 02:09:00.860

Tom: It's before she goes pure pulp.

02:09:00.880 --> 02:09:05.820

Tom: The characters in this are somewhat interesting and their interactions are somewhat believable.

02:09:06.220 --> 02:09:13.240

Tom: And the depiction of the Soviet Union, I think is actually, it's written in a naturalistic realist style.

02:09:13.260 --> 02:09:14.600

Tom: It's really atmospheric.

02:09:14.860 --> 02:09:16.580

Tom: It has a proper sense of place to it.

02:09:16.600 --> 02:09:19.380

Tom: That aspect of the book is really enjoyable.

02:09:20.240 --> 02:09:29.680

Tom: The weird sadomasochistic romance in it like she has in all her books, it's less erotic and pornographic than it is in her later works.

02:09:30.000 --> 02:09:41.240

Tom: But it is, other than with the chick in the architect book, it is a much more interesting exploration of a relationship like that.

02:09:41.260 --> 02:09:48.360

Tom: The woman in the architect book, though, is such a batshit crazy character that in terms of the romance, that is so good.

02:09:48.540 --> 02:09:51.860

Tom: But this book is worth reading for its literary quality.

02:09:52.220 --> 02:10:11.000

Tom: And as a pro-Soviet propaganda book, it is also really effective because its depiction of the Soviet Union as being as much a shithole but no more of a shithole than 1920s England or America is really effective, where you've got a...

02:10:11.900 --> 02:10:14.080

Tom: It's like reading of human bondage.

02:10:14.300 --> 02:10:30.780

Tom: It's absolutely like that sort of depiction of university life or the For Love Alone by Christine Stead, set in Australia in the same era, and London depicting university life.

02:10:30.800 --> 02:10:34.300

Tom: And one can't really tell the difference, honestly.

02:10:36.000 --> 02:10:42.560

Tom: So as a pro-Soviet propaganda book in the socialist realist style, it is absolutely worth reading as well.

02:10:42.880 --> 02:10:48.860

Tom: And I also think, again, I actually like Aang Rand as an example of that.

02:10:49.340 --> 02:10:52.640

Tom: She has the rare quality of honesty as an artist.

02:10:53.020 --> 02:11:05.720

Tom: And to me, her life is something of a tragedy, because when she was writing The Fountainhead or whichever the architect book was, she took a lot of anthetamines and became addicted to them.

02:11:06.120 --> 02:11:17.700

Tom: And in that book and from that book onwards, there is a notable decline both in her ability to write, particularly in characterisation, but also in just the basic prose.

02:11:18.340 --> 02:11:26.520

Tom: And also in her non-fiction, her logic and ability to be logically consistent massively drops off as well.

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Tom: Before that, to me, she is a really entertaining, provocative, not in the sense that she is coming up with provocative ideas, but as someone just being deliberately provocative and being edgy is what I mean.

02:11:43.620 --> 02:11:57.680

Tom: She is an amusingly edgy thinker, and she is irreverent and totally earnest and sincere, which is really rare for at least intellectuals with those kinds of ideas.

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Tom: It's certainly not rare for random people with those ideas, but it is rare for intellectuals with those ideas.

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Phil: And the name of the book again?

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Tom: The name of the book is We The Living.

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Phil: We The Living.

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Phil: Okay.

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Phil: Okay, well, with that, I think we'll close out episode 132 of The Game Under Podcast.

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Phil: Please do go and check part 3 of Tom's writing on Jordan Peterson, Peterson at gameunder.net.

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Phil: And thanks for joining me this day, Tom.

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Tom: Thanks for having me, Phil, although I am the host and you the co-host, so technically you join me.