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Intro
0:00:13 Council Wars
0:04:13 Cat's Meow
Final Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:05:49 Deadly Premonition 2 on Switch
First Impressions - Tom Towers
0:10:23 Journey to a Savage Planet for all major platforms, reviewed on PC
Trademark Banter
0:25:27 Doom Eternal-ly Updating
First Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:30:22 Project Warlord - Most platforms, reviewed on Switch
Tom Towers Reacts to the News
0:40:21 Console releases for Xbox X and Playstation 5
Final Impressions - Tom Towers
0:49:10 Halo 3
0:57:06 Halo 3: ODST
1:01:45 Tom and Phil Re-enact ODST dialog
Trademark Banter
1:06:38 Kind Words: Lo Fi Chill Beats to Write To
1:07:20 Vampyr at gameunder.net
1:09:30 Christian Prophet
1:13:15 Art of Rally Review
1:23:30 Teardown
Final Impressions - Towers and Fogg
1:25:00 Perfect Vermin for PC
Off Topic Closer
1:36:38 Pinker
Transcript
Tom: Hello and welcome to a special episode of the Game Under Podcast in these unprecedented times that get, keep getting progressively more and more unprecedented.
00:00:21.080 --> 00:00:32.640
Tom: Now, far be it from us to bring politics into gaming, but I think there has recently been one of the world's most important elections.
00:00:32.660 --> 00:00:43.820
Tom: And even here in Australia, we've been inundated with political propaganda, vote getting and all sorts of political advertising.
00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:52.180
Tom: The letterbox here has been filled to the brim of brochures and political ads.
00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.900
Tom: I don't know how has it been in Queensland recently?
00:00:55.620 --> 00:00:57.160
Phil: Well, we had our election up here.
00:00:57.180 --> 00:00:58.280
Phil: Is that what you're talking about?
00:00:59.120 --> 00:01:07.840
Tom: Well, I'm talking about the political event of the past four years of world renown.
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:15.260
Tom: And the results, it took a long time for them to be tabulated, but they have finally been finished.
00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:23.380
Tom: The last update was in fact on the 6th of November, 2020 at 2:14 PM.
00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:27.180
Tom: So only two days ago, this is basically breaking news.
00:01:27.240 --> 00:01:35.960
Tom: And I would just like to congratulate the first three candidates in Language Ward.
00:01:35.980 --> 00:01:38.380
Tom: Number one, Stephen Jolly.
00:01:38.720 --> 00:01:41.240
Tom: Number two, Anab Mohammed.
00:01:41.780 --> 00:01:44.740
Tom: Number three, Gabrielle Devietri.
00:01:45.440 --> 00:01:50.380
Tom: And for Melbourne Ward, number one, Edward Crossland.
00:01:51.060 --> 00:01:53.100
Tom: Number two, Claudine Neung.
00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:55.900
Tom: Number three, Herschel Landez.
00:01:56.340 --> 00:02:04.320
Tom: And for the last ward in the Yarra City Council, number one, Nicholls Ward rather.
00:02:04.500 --> 00:02:06.820
Tom: Number one, Bridgette O'Brien.
00:02:07.100 --> 00:02:09.200
Tom: Number two, Sophie Wade.
00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:11.680
Tom: Number three, Amanda Stone.
00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:20.120
Tom: And with those results, I believe that finally the world can rest a little easier tonight.
00:02:20.980 --> 00:02:24.320
Phil: I thought you were reading out horse names from the Melbourne Cup last week.
00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:28.180
Phil: So you had City Council elections in Melbourne?
00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:28.920
Tom: Yes.
00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:29.800
Phil: Okay.
00:02:30.220 --> 00:02:31.360
Phil: And what happened?
00:02:31.380 --> 00:02:33.920
Phil: Did they get rid of a bunch of people because of COVID or?
00:02:34.880 --> 00:02:42.960
Tom: I think I would not know, but I believe generally speaking, people who previously had seats re-won their seats.
00:02:44.640 --> 00:02:55.160
Tom: So a bunch of, in this case, actual socialists, in this case, Stephen Jolly, who is of the Socialist Party in Victoria.
00:02:55.760 --> 00:03:02.700
Tom: I think in Melbourne Ward, the Greens and Nicholls Ward, I have no idea who any of those people are.
00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:05.000
Phil: Okay.
00:03:05.140 --> 00:03:07.040
Phil: Well, are you happy with the outcome?
00:03:08.920 --> 00:03:12.540
Tom: I did not vote and I am ambivalent.
00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.400
Tom: I am ambivalent in regards to the outcome.
00:03:14.740 --> 00:03:15.800
Phil: I thought you had to vote.
00:03:15.920 --> 00:03:17.000
Phil: I thought it was mandatory.
00:03:17.740 --> 00:03:25.260
Tom: It is in theory mandatory, but there are ways out of voting, both popular ones and lesser known ones as well.
00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:42.500
Tom: But given that the voter turnout was apparently about 69% of the enrollment, it's either not enforced at this level or the councils make a reasonable amount of money on fines.
00:03:44.780 --> 00:03:46.840
Phil: Well, congratulations, I guess.
00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:47.460
Phil: It's good to have...
00:03:47.740 --> 00:03:51.340
Tom: I thought the world was waiting for this to happen.
00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:52.700
Phil: Yeah, I'm sure they were.
00:03:52.720 --> 00:04:00.480
Phil: I thought you were gonna say that you were about to announce our 2016 Game of the Year after that long deliberation.
00:04:01.660 --> 00:04:05.660
Phil: I am Phil Fogg, by the way, and Tom, it's Tom Towers.
00:04:05.880 --> 00:04:08.700
Phil: Thanks for coming on and hosting the show.
00:04:08.720 --> 00:04:10.560
Tom: I'm Tom Towers of Melba Ward.
00:04:10.980 --> 00:04:11.740
Phil: Melba Ward.
00:04:13.420 --> 00:04:16.220
Phil: In these unprecedented times, it has been difficult.
00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:28.720
Phil: I know that since we've been recording from home, one of the listeners or two of the listeners have pointed out that they can hear a cat in the background, and I've never actually introduced the cat to the people.
00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:31.620
Phil: I don't know if you've heard the cat in the background.
00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:37.300
Phil: In fact, I know you did because the last time we had to stop the show and I escorted the cat out of the studio.
00:04:37.320 --> 00:04:40.620
Tom: I heard the cracking of a whip, I believe.
00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:45.400
Phil: Well, the cat has passed, so there is no more cat.
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Tom: The whip cracked a little too hard at that time.
00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:59.680
Phil: Well, she was 18, so it was certainly time, but just for the listeners out there that like to listen to the cat, I still haven't bought a soundboard.
00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:08.420
Phil: You know how much I desperately want a soundboard, and I know that you and the listeners will both cringe when that actually does happen.
00:05:09.060 --> 00:05:10.000
Phil: But I do have this...
00:05:13.660 --> 00:05:20.440
Phil: I have this children's book that you push a button and that sound comes out.
00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:22.320
Phil: I don't know, we might use that to...
00:05:22.580 --> 00:05:33.160
Phil: Maybe we can use that to score games, like 3 meows out of 6, but it is as annoying as the real cat was, I can assure you.
00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:35.580
Tom: That can be your scoring system.
00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:37.100
Phil: Okay, alright.
00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:47.600
Phil: Well, with that, before we get into Journey to the Savage Planet, did you want to hear my final impressions of Deadly Premonition?
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Tom: Obviously.
00:05:50.140 --> 00:05:58.360
Phil: Deadly Premonition 2, this is of course the Switch exclusive from SWERY, and it was both the prequel and sequel to Deadly Premonition.
00:05:59.900 --> 00:06:10.340
Phil: Look, I think if you really want to know all my full thoughts on that game, go back, and I think it was episode 129, or possibly 130 where I spoke about it at length.
00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:21.620
Phil: I think that it ultimately was an experience that I had to have had, and I think that anyone who finished the original Deadly Premonition should have.
00:06:22.580 --> 00:06:30.040
Phil: But certainly, it's not a game I would recommend in its whole by the time I was finished with it.
00:06:31.100 --> 00:06:35.060
Phil: It really is for enthusiasts of the original material.
00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:51.380
Phil: And the reason being is where the game fell short was in its production values and just some of the things that they had to do to extend the length of the game that ultimately let the game down.
00:06:53.160 --> 00:07:06.140
Phil: I found the story and the character work to be worth it, but again, and I would recommend it to you because I know you enjoyed the original, but for everyone else, I'd say it's certainly not something that is worth your time, unfortunately.
00:07:07.100 --> 00:07:11.680
Tom: That's disappointing, but also probably not surprising.
00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:13.700
Phil: No, not surprising.
00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:17.460
Phil: I mean, the original game was done on the cheap, but back then games were...
00:07:18.400 --> 00:07:22.040
Phil: it was easier to make a fuller game on the cheap, I think.
00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:31.780
Phil: Maybe not, though, when I look at some other indie games, but at least the way that Swery makes games, he really does deserve a proper budget, I feel.
00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:41.140
Tom: You think perhaps another issue was that it was made for the Switch, than for more powerful hardware?
00:07:41.980 --> 00:07:44.280
Phil: Well, I think ultimately it will come out on PC.
00:07:44.300 --> 00:07:48.040
Phil: I mean, it must, just for economic purposes.
00:07:49.020 --> 00:08:23.140
Phil: You know, there's no reason why you couldn't release it on PC or on the other consoles, except for the fact that it might get more ridicule, because, you know, on the Switch, because everyone knows that it's a less powerful system, I think that the people that, you know, the fans of the Switch, myself included, are more accepting of lower quality standards in terms of, you know, technical, whereas that may not be tolerated on a PlayStation 5 or an Xbox.
00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:38.140
Phil: I think it would find acceptance in the PC world because people who play PC games are used to, you know, some clunkiness and, you know, from indie games and things like that, even from AAA games, really.
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.900
Phil: So, no, I don't think it had much to do with the Switch.
00:08:42.920 --> 00:08:51.380
Phil: I think it had more to do with a lack of production time in terms of, you know, saying, look, this idea really isn't working.
00:08:51.400 --> 00:08:52.720
Phil: It needs to be cut from the game.
00:08:53.300 --> 00:08:57.380
Phil: And then them going, well, if we cut that from the game, then the game's going to be like an hour shorter.
00:08:57.780 --> 00:08:59.520
Phil: And it's already a pretty short game.
00:08:59.640 --> 00:09:07.500
Phil: So, yeah, I think it's design issues more than being constrained by the system on which it was released.
00:09:09.500 --> 00:09:20.960
Tom: And it seems like design issues such as inflating the length and perhaps making the area bigger than it needed to be also could well have contributed to a lot of the technical issues as well.
00:09:22.280 --> 00:09:23.520
Phil: Yes, yeah, yeah.
00:09:24.580 --> 00:09:26.280
Phil: So, yeah, so sad.
00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:34.060
Phil: But like I said, if you're a fan of the original, the story work and the acting and everything else is worth coming back for.
00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:39.720
Phil: But I don't think it augurs well for a third release, but who knows?
00:09:39.740 --> 00:09:45.140
Phil: I mean, maybe another seven years from now, there'll be interest in a sequel.
00:09:46.060 --> 00:09:49.080
Phil: I think it would make a good Netflix show, honestly.
00:09:51.400 --> 00:09:54.740
Phil: Yeah, a live action show.
00:09:55.280 --> 00:10:13.640
Phil: I think that would probably be its most successful way for another game to come out, would be something else like a comic or a Netflix series or something like that to push it forward, to get more people exposed to the world of Deadly Premonition.
00:10:14.740 --> 00:10:20.440
Tom: I think it definitely has the quality behind it to be translatable into another medium.
00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:22.340
Phil: Yep, yep, I agree.
00:10:24.280 --> 00:10:26.080
Phil: But we may as well get into the games.
00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:27.300
Phil: We've got a lot to talk about.
00:10:27.700 --> 00:10:33.480
Phil: And the one I'm most interested to hear about from you is Journey to a Savage Planet.
00:10:33.500 --> 00:10:38.460
Phil: This is a game that came out this year, published by 505 Games.
00:10:38.800 --> 00:10:41.720
Phil: I don't know too much about the developer Typhoon Studios.
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Phil: Do you know much about them?
00:10:43.560 --> 00:10:49.860
Tom: Well, they've apparently been bought by a large developer, possibly EA.
00:10:49.880 --> 00:10:50.740
Tom: I'll just look that up.
00:10:50.760 --> 00:10:54.840
Tom: But apparently the founder of the company is an Australian.
00:10:55.520 --> 00:10:55.980
Phil: Okay.
00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:58.960
Phil: Yeah, the studio, they're owned by Google.
00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:00.100
Tom: There you go.
00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:01.000
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:05.260
Tom: They were not owned by Google, I believe, at the beginning of development though.
00:11:06.160 --> 00:11:12.900
Phil: And this is an Unreal Engine game available for all the major platforms, Windows through Switch.
00:11:12.900 --> 00:11:13.240
Phil: So...
00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:23.340
Tom: I believe, however, that on PC it might be an Epic exclusive because it does not appear to be on Steam at the moment.
00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:24.240
Phil: Okay.
00:11:25.060 --> 00:11:26.160
Phil: And it's a...
00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.840
Phil: All I know about it is it's a first-person adventure game.
00:11:29.380 --> 00:11:33.460
Phil: Like, I guess, I imagine like No Man's Sky.
00:11:33.880 --> 00:11:34.240
Phil: Is that...?
00:11:34.680 --> 00:11:45.200
Tom: Well, the thing that people compare it to, which Travo and Phantom Leo on the VG Press, both compared it to Metroid Prime.
00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:46.680
Phil: Oh, wow.
00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:48.860
Tom: Which is what intrigued me.
00:11:48.860 --> 00:11:57.160
Tom: And there are certainly some similarities with Metroid Prime, but I would have to very much diverge from that analysis.
00:11:57.980 --> 00:12:20.920
Tom: So the surface-level things that are like Metroid Prime is scanning, which doesn't really play much of a role in the gameplay in the same way that it does in Metroid Prime, where it's used more complexly in puzzles and discovering important information and things like that, and building up the backstory.
00:12:20.940 --> 00:12:44.460
Tom: Here, the story is much more comical, and simple isn't the right word, because Metroid Prime has a very simple story, but it is comical and over-the-top, so the scanning results are usually non-sequitur jokes and the things like that, and they are indeed amusing, but it is not used in terms of gameplay in the same way that it is in Metroid Prime.
00:12:44.960 --> 00:13:24.520
Tom: Structurally, in theory, it is like Metroid Prime, where you have to collect upgrades to be able to get further in the areas you're exploring, but it's quite a small environment, so you don't really end up running into things that you get stuck at and come back to a lot later that are at least involved in the main story, except towards the end of the game, maybe in the second to third, so it's a much more faster-paced experience in terms of the exploration.
00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:28.800
Tom: On top of that, the unlocks aren't really things you discover.
00:13:28.820 --> 00:13:54.820
Tom: It's essentially a sort of crafting thing where you collect various material from enemies you kill, and when you get enough of those, you can 3D print various items you need to get to areas you couldn't get before, such as a grapple hook and double jump and things like that.
00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:15.000
Tom: So there are surface similarities to Metroid Prime, but structurally it is much more in the vein of something like Jak and Daxter, where you're in a sort of semi-open platforming world that you explore and you're collecting things.
00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:32.060
Phil: I'm looking at the video, and it looks like a blend of No Man's Sky, Metroid Prime and Spore, but talking about that collecting element, does it have a Pokemon type, monster collecting type aspect to it as well?
00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.300
Phil: Because that's also kind of what it's looking like.
00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:39.620
Tom: Yep, I think the enemies are actually in your journal listed as trading cards.
00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:47.620
Phil: So like a, you know, in fine, in typical RPGs, you've got bestiaries or bestiaries, however you pronounce it.
00:14:48.680 --> 00:14:51.260
Phil: But that's kind of, you know, and that's fun.
00:14:51.280 --> 00:14:54.860
Phil: It's fun to like collect them and go back and look through them.
00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:59.060
Phil: But you can, can you battle with them with those cards?
00:14:59.060 --> 00:14:59.700
Phil: Is it like a...
00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:01.200
Tom: No, I don't think you can.
00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:04.260
Tom: It's just basically a bestiary in card form.
00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:05.300
Phil: Yep, yep.
00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:10.140
Phil: And the very, very bright visuals as well comes through here.
00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:32.520
Tom: And the other, the other thing related to the crafting system, which is a little bit awkward and goes against the otherwise very free-flowing pace of the game, to be able to craft, to print better and better items, you need to get to certain explorer ranks.
00:15:33.760 --> 00:15:49.140
Tom: And to do this, you need to conduct scientific experiments, such as you have to capture several enemies with the binding goo item and then shoot them all together as an example.
00:15:50.820 --> 00:16:34.840
Tom: And while these things are a slightly interesting wrinkle on the gameplay, where for the most part it's all about the exploring of the combat elements, except when you're up against a few tougher enemies, which I'll get into in a moment, they're basically just there to look cute, make endearing noises and die in humorous manners to drop the currency for your crafting the combat, other than when you're against the armoured enemies that have weak points and a couple of attack chains that you have to dodge are there essentially just to give you the items you need to craft.
00:16:35.300 --> 00:17:12.920
Tom: So that just kind of bogs you down and slows you down when you want to go and continue exploring and find extra items, because the one area where you do have that feeling of Metroid Prime where it's satisfying and interesting to be collecting, sorry, to be unlocking more things, to find more things, it's not so much to do with the main story and exploration, but with collecting all the health upgrades and alien logs which is backstory and things like that.
00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:16.600
Tom: So you'll be constantly coming across areas that you can't get to.
00:17:17.060 --> 00:17:26.140
Tom: They won't really be related to the story, but they will have an interesting reward that will make you stronger or add to the backstory and that sort of thing.
00:17:28.780 --> 00:17:39.080
Phil: I'm really, really wanting you to get to the end of this review because so far you've made it sound very compelling and I noticed it on Amazon.
00:17:39.500 --> 00:17:45.360
Phil: It's available for 28 bucks for Xbox One and 52 bucks for the Switch.
00:17:46.180 --> 00:18:03.260
Phil: I prefer to buy everything for the Switch these days, mostly because they don't generally have a lot of updates, online updates, and also just because I love the flexibility of being able to play something mobile if I need to.
00:18:03.620 --> 00:18:13.180
Phil: But I'm not going to get too far ahead here, but I will ask how far are you along in the game and you are playing this on PC, I presume?
00:18:13.580 --> 00:18:14.120
Tom: Correct.
00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:22.380
Tom: I am playing it on the Epic Games Store version of the game and I believe I am right at the end.
00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:25.620
Phil: And how long has it taken you to get through it?
00:18:27.120 --> 00:18:30.840
Tom: Probably about seven or eight hours.
00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:42.580
Tom: And the, I think, total number, the percentage I have, I think, is around 70 or 60 percent as far as collecting things are concerned.
00:18:42.600 --> 00:18:49.020
Tom: So if you were to collect everything, it would probably be about 10 or 12 hours.
00:18:49.020 --> 00:18:57.000
Tom: And I do intend to continue to collect things for a little bit of time.
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:17.820
Tom: And so if you are going into this Expecting Metroid Prime, although Travo and Phantom Leo clearly were, and this didn't apply, I think it is a little bit disappointing because it's really not Metroid Prime at all, other than taking a few of the gameplay mechanics from Metroid Prime.
00:19:17.840 --> 00:19:24.080
Tom: Structurally, it isn't really that at all, nor is it Metroid Prime in the moment-to-moment gameplay.
00:19:24.140 --> 00:19:36.320
Tom: It's really much more of a classic collection style platformer in a really lush and also quite amusing environment you get to explore.
00:19:37.120 --> 00:19:39.280
Tom: As that, it works really well.
00:19:40.260 --> 00:19:47.000
Tom: As a Metroid Prime clone or a Metroidvania, whatever you want to call it, it's not so good.
00:19:47.340 --> 00:19:52.500
Tom: But the platforming, and it is in first person, it's pretty forgiving.
00:19:53.180 --> 00:20:07.960
Tom: As soon as you get the double jump, when you fall, as long as you jump just before you land, you can survive very tall falls, which is good for exploring in areas where it doesn't seem like the game means for you to explore early on.
00:20:08.380 --> 00:20:16.180
Tom: And it's also forgiving so that some of the awkwardness of first person platforming isn't an issue.
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:28.820
Tom: The basic jumping mechanics also are very floaty, but that works in first person platforming in a way that it doesn't in third person platforming.
00:20:29.180 --> 00:20:36.940
Tom: And there's also a nice sense of inertia when you're doing running jumps and things like that.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:45.980
Tom: And the framing of the game is very funny as well and surprisingly cute.
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:55.860
Tom: It actually reminds me a lot of Pikmin, the presentation where basically all the enemies are extraordinarily cute.
00:20:56.980 --> 00:21:00.520
Tom: And at first you don't really want to kill them as a result of that.
00:21:02.100 --> 00:21:16.200
Tom: And the basic premise of the game is you are an explorer working for some suspicious corporation in a very poorly designed exploration program.
00:21:17.080 --> 00:21:28.380
Tom: And on your ship you have a bunch of televisions which play pretty amusing parodies of ads of various styles.
00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:41.460
Tom: And you also have regular communications with the CEO of the company, who is played very well and adds greatly to the atmosphere.
00:21:41.540 --> 00:21:54.960
Tom: And most of the dialogue in the game is from your AI, I think, companion, who has a lot of sardonic commentary on your exploration as you are playing.
00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:03.880
Phil: The humor of it, just based on the videos I've seen and the promotion of, is it Grub or Glob?
00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:06.060
Tom: Grub, I think it is.
00:22:06.080 --> 00:22:11.960
Phil: Grub reminded me of one of your favorite series, and that's Oddworld.
00:22:12.800 --> 00:22:13.640
Tom: Yes, definitely.
00:22:13.660 --> 00:22:24.280
Tom: I don't think it is as deep as the humor in Oddworld, or as thematically interesting as Oddworld, but it is definitely the same style of humor.
00:22:25.580 --> 00:22:26.320
Phil: So that's great.
00:22:26.340 --> 00:22:29.040
Phil: I mean, I've added it to my cart.
00:22:29.060 --> 00:22:39.300
Phil: I'm going to pay the 52 bucks to get it on Switch as opposed to the 30 bucks on Xbox One, because the Xbox One is coming from America, and who knows, and who cares, right?
00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:42.940
Phil: But at 52 bucks on a Switch, that's kind of like a budget title.
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:46.460
Phil: So that's an easy pick up.
00:22:47.120 --> 00:22:50.680
Tom: Just bear in mind at $50 that it is indeed very short.
00:22:51.120 --> 00:22:52.520
Phil: Yeah, but you know, that's...
00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:54.480
Tom: Quality over quantity.
00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:57.340
Phil: Yeah, that means it will take me two months to play it, you know?
00:22:57.880 --> 00:22:58.200
Tom: Yep.
00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:01.120
Phil: At the current rate that I'm completing games.
00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:04.340
Phil: So that sounds like a perfect length to me.
00:23:04.360 --> 00:23:06.760
Phil: And this one flew completely under my radar.
00:23:06.980 --> 00:23:10.700
Phil: I didn't quite like the artwork of the...
00:23:11.580 --> 00:23:13.520
Phil: Like, I don't like the big googly eye.
00:23:13.620 --> 00:23:15.680
Phil: They kind of look a little too rare for me.
00:23:17.320 --> 00:23:18.400
Phil: Bendo, kuzuri style.
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:28.440
Tom: Looking at screenshots, I thought the entire thing was hideously ugly, but when you're playing it and you get into the sense of humour, it ends up working quite well.
00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:31.780
Phil: Yeah, and that grob stuff, is it grob?
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:34.040
Tom: I believe it is grob.
00:23:34.280 --> 00:23:34.660
Phil: Grob?
00:23:35.020 --> 00:23:36.840
Phil: It's like this purple goo stuff.
00:23:36.860 --> 00:23:41.340
Phil: That's the stuff that you're using to laser print or 3D print things, is that right?
00:23:41.780 --> 00:23:46.680
Tom: No, you use that as a trap to lure enemies together.
00:23:48.600 --> 00:23:49.880
Phil: Do you have much more to say on that?
00:23:49.900 --> 00:23:53.940
Phil: I mean, I'd love to hear more impressions of it, but you've sold me on it.
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.580
Tom: Well, it's pretty simple, so there isn't really much more to say about it than that.
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:22.600
Tom: The one thing that would be a big negative in the context of classic 3D platformers and also Metroidvanias for that matter is due to the technicolor extraordinarily vivid nature of the graphics, the different environment styles rather blend together a bit.
00:24:22.620 --> 00:24:32.940
Tom: So when you're in the snow area, as an example, it doesn't feel that much different to the lava area just because everything is so overly saturated.
00:24:34.360 --> 00:24:40.560
Phil: So it's not like Project Warlock where you have distinctions between the lands, the different worlds.
00:24:41.840 --> 00:24:46.420
Tom: Well, you do have distinctions between them, but due to the extreme nature of the aesthetic...
00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.020
Phil: Really, would you describe it as overly saturated?
00:24:50.840 --> 00:24:52.580
Tom: It's very overly saturated.
00:24:52.700 --> 00:24:53.440
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
00:24:54.140 --> 00:24:58.360
Tom: But again, with the sense of humour, it works pretty well.
00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:01.760
Phil: I just want to thank you for that.
00:25:01.780 --> 00:25:06.380
Phil: So that's Journey to the Savage Planet, published by 505 Games, available on everything.
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:11.860
Phil: And I've got to say, I've been hearing more positive things about 505 Games recently.
00:25:12.120 --> 00:25:19.480
Phil: Back in the PlayStation 1 era, 505 was notoriously bad as a publisher and a developer.
00:25:21.780 --> 00:25:26.620
Phil: But they've been releasing some smart games lately, which is great, great to see.
00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:31.860
Phil: I recently picked up Doom Eternal for the Xbox One.
00:25:32.300 --> 00:25:41.080
Phil: I played the first Doom, not the original Doom, but you know what I mean, the new Doom reboot on the PlayStation 4.
00:25:41.560 --> 00:25:49.420
Phil: But these days, I've been sort of hedging more towards Xbox One because of their backward compatibility and all of that sort of thing.
00:25:49.440 --> 00:26:02.980
Phil: But this is another case, man, where, okay, so I put the disk in and it says, okay, do you want to install just the campaign mode or do you want to install the online multiplayer?
00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:06.700
Phil: I'm like, this is great because I'm not going to play the online multiplayer, so this is great.
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:09.980
Phil: I'll just install the campaign mode.
00:26:11.420 --> 00:26:17.080
Phil: So it installs about 10 megabytes and then says, yeah, we're done.
00:26:17.100 --> 00:26:21.320
Phil: We've installed and nowhere is there an option for you to actually play it.
00:26:22.600 --> 00:26:30.680
Phil: So I do some research online and basically they go, yeah, you've got to actually install both before you can update.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:32.780
Phil: Okay, fine.
00:26:32.800 --> 00:26:34.740
Tom: Can you play without updating?
00:26:34.860 --> 00:26:37.280
Phil: No, you can't play without updating.
00:26:37.300 --> 00:26:39.660
Phil: You can't play without being online.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:45.520
Phil: It doesn't appear in your games to play list, you know, on the interface.
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:49.140
Phil: And so, okay, I'll install the online multiplayer.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:51.500
Phil: So that's another 47 gig.
00:26:51.940 --> 00:26:55.960
Phil: And then there's a 22 gig update for the multiplayer.
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.380
Phil: So I'm still downloading the 22 gig update for the multiplayer.
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:07.920
Phil: Apparently then before you can play the campaign mode, you have to register with Bethesda to get a Bethesda online account.
00:27:09.020 --> 00:27:10.420
Phil: And then you can play the game.
00:27:11.760 --> 00:27:32.880
Phil: I'm really hacked off about, I'm like this far, I'm holding my thumb very close to my pointer finger from writing to the ACCC, which is the consumer, whatever they are, and say this is outrageous, because this is what happened, I was really pissed off, because I really love Call of Duty, I couldn't play the Call of Duty game I played.
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:35.760
Phil: You buy a disc, you think you're going to be able to do it.
00:27:35.780 --> 00:27:42.700
Phil: I understand updates, I understand that's going to happen, and I understand installs, that's going to happen, but like this is getting ridiculous.
00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:46.760
Tom: Is there anywhere on the box that says Bethesda account required?
00:27:46.820 --> 00:27:56.940
Phil: No, I went back and read it this morning, and it says, you know, it's going to take up 50 gig of storage, and that's it.
00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:03.060
Phil: It doesn't say there's going to be a mandatory update, which all of these things should say, and it doesn't say it's going to require.
00:28:03.080 --> 00:28:06.740
Tom: And usually you'd expect them to say if you need an account of a certain time.
00:28:07.100 --> 00:28:13.900
Phil: Yeah, now it's a free account, I get it, you know, that's fine, but it's really annoying.
00:28:14.040 --> 00:28:15.060
Phil: It's really annoying.
00:28:15.080 --> 00:28:29.360
Phil: I know I need to get over it, but basically then, while I'm waiting for it to install, because I do want to play it, because Project Warlock has put me in the mood for this kind of entertainment, fantasy first person shooters, I guess.
00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:48.560
Phil: I just immediately turned around, I grabbed my copy of Duke, I know, get ready to say, okay, Boomer, I turned around, I get my copy of Duke Nukem 64, for the N64, I take the cartridge that I own, I put it in my N64, I turned it on, and I was playing it in 10 seconds.
00:28:48.800 --> 00:28:49.160
Phil: You know?
00:28:49.180 --> 00:28:50.800
Phil: I know.
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:52.160
Phil: Just go ahead and say it.
00:28:53.900 --> 00:28:57.480
Tom: I think that's well since the days of Boomers, though.
00:28:57.500 --> 00:29:00.800
Tom: I think that's too young an experience for Boomers, isn't it?
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:05.240
Tom: I think you should be nostalgic about your chess board or something to that effect.
00:29:06.520 --> 00:29:08.900
Phil: Well, you know the Internet more than I do.
00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:12.160
Phil: These days, there's only Boomers or Zoomers, and that's it.
00:29:13.280 --> 00:29:16.340
Phil: I think even you would be considered a boomer.
00:29:18.020 --> 00:29:25.380
Phil: I know the listeners must be sick of hearing a bitch about updates, but I've got to also say...
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:29.820
Tom: That system, though, is ridiculous where they ask you what to install.
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:39.180
Phil: Yes, and you go online, and this has happened to everyone who's bought this copy for the Xbox.
00:29:39.300 --> 00:29:41.700
Phil: Every single person has said, what am I doing wrong here?
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:50.500
Phil: And then Microsoft comes on and goes, oh yeah, you need to install both, register with Bethesda, and then you can play.
00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:52.060
Phil: It's just ridiculous.
00:29:52.140 --> 00:30:01.640
Phil: Anyway, I hope, because they had refreshed the Xbox user interface so that it matches what's on the new Xboxes.
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.160
Phil: So it's like, oh, this must be a part of the whole new thing.
00:30:04.180 --> 00:30:06.460
Phil: It's like, no, this was just a thing for Doom Eternal.
00:30:07.300 --> 00:30:10.760
Phil: So we can go in one or two directions here.
00:30:10.780 --> 00:30:16.720
Phil: I can give you my impressions of Project Warlock, or we can talk about the consoles that are releasing this week.
00:30:18.100 --> 00:30:22.440
Tom: Obviously, Project Warlock is much more interesting than new consoles.
00:30:22.560 --> 00:30:22.960
Phil: Yeah.
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:38.500
Phil: So in episode 129, you spoke about a game by a company called Crunching Koalas, I believe is the name of the development company that did it, and you spoke effusively about it.
00:30:38.520 --> 00:30:44.060
Phil: It's a Doom Wolfenstein-inspired first-person shooter.
00:30:46.420 --> 00:31:01.940
Tom: It calls itself that it's inspired by Doom, Hexen and Wolfenstein, but it is in level design very much more in the vein of Wolfenstein, but in movement and shooting much more in the vein of Doom.
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:06.960
Tom: So it's an interesting combination of influences ultimately.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.060
Phil: It's available on everything.
00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:12.080
Tom: And it has a free demo, I believe.
00:31:12.600 --> 00:31:13.140
Phil: Oh, excellent.
00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:16.200
Tom: And the developer was in fact Buckshot Software.
00:31:16.520 --> 00:31:17.420
Phil: Buckshot Software.
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:20.240
Tom: But I can see how you got those two names mixed up.
00:31:20.260 --> 00:31:22.800
Phil: Well, Buckshot Software and Crunching Koalas had something to do with it.
00:31:22.820 --> 00:31:26.820
Phil: Maybe Crunching Koalas did the Switch conversion, possibly.
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.340
Tom: They were possibly the sound design, maybe?
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:31.900
Phil: Yeah, the sound design was amazing in this game.
00:31:33.300 --> 00:31:35.740
Phil: Tom talked about this game in episode 129.
00:31:35.760 --> 00:31:37.260
Phil: Go back and listen to what he has to say.
00:31:37.280 --> 00:31:41.980
Phil: He's much smarter than me in every aspect, including talking about video games.
00:31:43.080 --> 00:31:47.840
Phil: He convinced me to buy this through his words, and I bought it for the Switch.
00:31:49.600 --> 00:31:54.860
Phil: I have to say, playing it on the Switch Mobile does not...
00:31:55.020 --> 00:31:56.000
Phil: it doesn't function.
00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:58.780
Phil: There is no way you can...
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:00.220
Phil: It is functional.
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:08.040
Phil: I mean, you can do it, but there's absolutely no way you would want to do it by using the crap controllers on the Switch itself.
00:32:09.340 --> 00:32:14.000
Phil: I'm playing it docked with the Master Controller, which is sublime.
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:19.200
Phil: I don't know what battery technology they're using in it, but it puts Elon Musk to shame.
00:32:19.620 --> 00:32:25.380
Phil: Every company should be using whatever battery technology Nintendo uses for their pro controller.
00:32:26.660 --> 00:32:32.380
Phil: You basically plug it in once every four months and recharge it and it recharges like immediately.
00:32:33.380 --> 00:32:34.440
Phil: This game is brilliant.
00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:35.540
Phil: I absolutely love it.
00:32:35.840 --> 00:32:42.880
Phil: It is, I understand now when you were saying, when you first said, oh yeah, Wolfenstein's slow, Doom's slow.
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:45.480
Phil: I'm like, that's an idiotic statement.
00:32:45.500 --> 00:32:48.100
Phil: Those games are phenomenally ridiculously fast.
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:54.920
Phil: But now that I'm playing Project Warlock, yeah, those games are slow compared to Project Warlock.
00:32:55.280 --> 00:33:06.280
Phil: And it's just, what is sublime about this game is that they've applied not only the modern technology to those games, but also play sensibilities.
00:33:07.700 --> 00:33:24.760
Phil: And if you like first-person shooters, you like 90s shooters, and you like games like Demon's Souls, the Souls games, you're going to love this game because it's unrelentingly unforgivable of anything other than perfection.
00:33:25.080 --> 00:33:31.960
Phil: Now, I know you said it was easy, and the game does get easier as you progress, and I'm probably playing it wrong.
00:33:32.760 --> 00:33:37.220
Phil: And I certainly were not using magic for two-thirds of the game.
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:38.800
Phil: I pulled an Aspro.
00:33:40.040 --> 00:33:44.020
Tom: Well, it is mainly in the last third that you need magic.
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.280
Phil: Yeah, well, I guess...
00:33:46.280 --> 00:33:48.800
Tom: So you can do without magic for the first two-thirds.
00:33:49.600 --> 00:33:50.880
Phil: I know I'm playing it wrong.
00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:56.780
Phil: I know that anyone who's watching me play it would be just shrugging their shoulders and going, what's wrong with this person?
00:33:57.960 --> 00:33:58.640
Phil: But it's great.
00:33:58.660 --> 00:33:59.780
Phil: I mean, the weapons are great.
00:34:00.320 --> 00:34:07.160
Phil: You didn't mention, I don't think you mentioned, what a hand cannon the pistol is, which is obviously a tribute to Halo.
00:34:08.100 --> 00:34:09.400
Phil: The shotgun is ridiculous.
00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:12.700
Phil: I mean, the shotgun has a range of hundreds of meters, from what I can tell.
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:16.120
Tom: It's essentially a single-shot rifle.
00:34:16.600 --> 00:34:18.100
Phil: Yes, yeah.
00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:20.960
Phil: And, you know, all the other weapons are kind of fun.
00:34:20.980 --> 00:34:23.540
Phil: I've finally got the rail gun.
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:25.400
Phil: The speed of it is great.
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:28.200
Phil: The aesthetic of it is great.
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:33.720
Phil: The technical use of graphics is really wonderful.
00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:37.520
Phil: And I keep forgetting that it's a modern game, so I don't look up.
00:34:37.660 --> 00:34:39.680
Phil: I don't look down, you know.
00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:44.480
Phil: I'm used to just sort of tracking through it and not taking advantage of the graphics.
00:34:44.500 --> 00:34:47.200
Phil: But yeah, it's just a beautiful, beautiful game.
00:34:47.220 --> 00:34:52.580
Phil: And up until now, you know, I've played Kind Words a fair bit.
00:34:52.600 --> 00:34:56.100
Phil: I thought that was really innovative on the PC.
00:34:56.120 --> 00:35:01.840
Phil: But this, by far, unless I play something greater before the end of the year is my game of the year.
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:04.460
Phil: So thanks for that recommendation.
00:35:04.660 --> 00:35:14.320
Phil: And yeah, I can recommend it for the Switch, played in the docked mode, which certainly means you can play it PlayStation 4, Xbox and PC.
00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:17.480
Phil: Now, you probably used keyboard, I'm assuming, when you played it PC.
00:35:18.020 --> 00:35:18.540
Tom: Of course.
00:35:19.620 --> 00:35:20.500
Phil: I wouldn't recommend that.
00:35:21.720 --> 00:35:24.140
Phil: Keyboards are for typing letters, not for playing video games.
00:35:24.160 --> 00:35:25.140
Tom: Keyboard and mouse.
00:35:27.540 --> 00:35:29.640
Tom: Without any aiming reticle.
00:35:30.500 --> 00:35:32.740
Tom: It is the only way to play, obviously.
00:35:32.860 --> 00:35:36.380
Phil: I put the aiming reticle on at the end.
00:35:37.720 --> 00:35:39.100
Phil: I'm in the last level now.
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:50.760
Phil: The thing I'm asking about is, I thought there was somewhere where you can basically switch the shooting to Wolfenstein Doom, which is basically you just have to be facing the enemy to shoot.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:52.580
Phil: I didn't turn that on.
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:58.860
Phil: I left it so that you still have to actually aim vertically as well.
00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:01.660
Phil: They would have had that option on PC.
00:36:01.680 --> 00:36:02.380
Phil: Did you notice it?
00:36:03.580 --> 00:36:05.080
Tom: I have no idea.
00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:09.660
Phil: The graphics options are really great on the Switch version.
00:36:09.680 --> 00:36:10.620
Tom: The console filters.
00:36:11.260 --> 00:36:12.860
Phil: Yeah, the console filters.
00:36:14.580 --> 00:36:17.020
Phil: You can turn on and off pretty much everything.
00:36:17.060 --> 00:36:17.780
Phil: It's really neat.
00:36:19.560 --> 00:36:26.980
Phil: And I really did not mind being sent all the way back to the start when I died.
00:36:29.080 --> 00:36:42.720
Phil: Basically, within each level, Tom didn't fully explain this, but within each theme, basically there is one, two, three, four, five, six different zones.
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:47.580
Phil: And within those zones, they are made up of either two levels or three levels or four levels.
00:36:48.740 --> 00:36:51.360
Phil: Or in the case of the end boss, there's one level.
00:36:51.700 --> 00:36:59.000
Phil: So if you were to die on level two, then you would have to go back.
00:36:59.020 --> 00:37:04.860
Phil: And if you died on level two or four, you would have to go back to level one and replay level one.
00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:09.140
Phil: So really it beats you up in terms of the time that you lose.
00:37:09.660 --> 00:37:12.180
Phil: But I really loved that.
00:37:12.220 --> 00:37:16.920
Phil: I loved replaying and mastering each and every level.
00:37:17.560 --> 00:37:20.100
Phil: And I really savoring the boss battles.
00:37:21.140 --> 00:37:25.600
Phil: It's no spoiler really to talk about in the industrial age theme.
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:29.320
Phil: There was a tank, a mechanical tank at the end of it.
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:30.040
Phil: Do you remember that one?
00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:30.780
Tom: Yes, I do.
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.220
Phil: Do you remember how you beat it?
00:37:33.160 --> 00:37:36.400
Tom: Well, I actually saw a steam thread on this.
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:41.760
Tom: And apparently a lot of people had great difficulty with it.
00:37:41.780 --> 00:37:44.140
Tom: That was actually one of the easiest bosses for me.
00:37:44.160 --> 00:37:45.300
Phil: It was the easiest, yep.
00:37:46.520 --> 00:37:48.680
Tom: So I have no idea what they were on about.
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:54.880
Phil: Well, you might not remember, but this is not a spoiler, but if you want to figure it out for yourself, skip ahead a minute.
00:37:55.380 --> 00:37:58.020
Phil: But you start out in a little alcove on that level.
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:08.840
Phil: So basically I ran out of the alcove, spammed it with rocket grenades, launches, spammed it with rockets, killed it in its first element, and then ran back into that alcove.
00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:14.840
Phil: Because the tank can't hurt you when you're in that alcove, because it's charging up and just hitting the wall.
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:27.200
Phil: And then from in there, as long as you're not using something that's going to have any splash back, you can shoot it with your pistol, you can stab it with a dagger until you get through the next two levels.
00:38:28.020 --> 00:38:33.920
Tom: See, I just ran out there, shot it circle strafing until the second form.
00:38:33.940 --> 00:38:35.880
Tom: That's when it springs at you, right?
00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:36.280
Phil: Yeah.
00:38:36.700 --> 00:38:42.700
Tom: And jumped out of the way when it did that, because from what I can recall, it was pretty telegraphed when it was going to do that.
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:52.240
Phil: It was telegraphed, but at least with a console controller, it's not as easy to get out of the way.
00:38:53.200 --> 00:38:53.680
Tom: For sure.
00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:54.200
Phil: Yeah.
00:38:54.220 --> 00:39:06.160
Phil: But circle strafing with an automatic weapon is good for a lot of enemies that have attacks where they're throwing something, because basically they can never get to the animation, because they're constantly just reacting to being shot.
00:39:07.740 --> 00:39:08.720
Phil: Yeah, so it's brilliant.
00:39:08.740 --> 00:39:09.420
Phil: I absolutely love it.
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:13.480
Phil: Name of the game, Project Warlock, and I thoroughly recommend it.
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:17.140
Phil: I think I paid about 25 bucks for the downloadable Switch version.
00:39:18.460 --> 00:39:21.580
Phil: So thank you again for bringing new games to me.
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:23.380
Tom: I'm glad you enjoyed it that much.
00:39:23.620 --> 00:39:24.320
Phil: Ah, love it.
00:39:24.680 --> 00:39:25.080
Phil: Love it.
00:39:25.100 --> 00:39:25.720
Phil: Game of the Year.
00:39:26.980 --> 00:39:32.960
Tom: And for the record, Crunching Koala, I believe, were the people who ported it to consoles.
00:39:33.160 --> 00:39:34.260
Phil: Okay, brilliant.
00:39:34.300 --> 00:39:37.200
Phil: So they must be Aussies, I'm assuming, unless they just love koalas.
00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:45.300
Tom: Before we move on, we do have to ask you how many meows does Project Warlock get?
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:53.400
Phil: Okay, well, I work on a three-meow scale, and you know that I use the entirety of the scale, so don't be disappointed, but I'm going to issue it.
00:39:53.420 --> 00:40:01.900
Phil: That's three meows out of three meows.
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:03.440
Phil: It's the cat's meow, kids.
00:40:03.580 --> 00:40:04.760
Phil: Put that on the back of the box.
00:40:06.540 --> 00:40:13.060
Tom: And I'm yet to rate Journey to the Savage Planet as I have yet to finish the game itself.
00:40:14.300 --> 00:40:14.840
Phil: Fair enough.
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:18.400
Phil: Maybe I'll beat it before you do, and I'll give it a score first.
00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:19.920
Phil: Yeah, right.
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:25.760
Tom: But I believe there are some new consoles about to be released.
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:28.060
Phil: Yes, yes, there are.
00:40:28.820 --> 00:40:30.780
Phil: PlayStation 5 and Xbox.
00:40:31.820 --> 00:40:33.020
Phil: They're both getting good reviews.
00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:44.740
Phil: I'd say the place, the Xbox is getting reviews for great hardware and superior aesthetic design and its backward compatibility.
00:40:45.860 --> 00:40:51.700
Phil: The backward compatibility is not for 100% of their back catalog.
00:40:51.720 --> 00:40:58.800
Phil: So let's just get that completely straight because that was out there for a very long time and it was very confusing to me and couldn't get to the bottom of it.
00:41:01.040 --> 00:41:09.620
Phil: So basically only the original Xbox and Xbox 360 games that were supported in this generation are supported on the next generation.
00:41:09.640 --> 00:41:37.160
Phil: Not to say they're not going to add more, but apparently both consoles have exceptional backward compatibility for the current generation, improving games on the fly with Microsoft's tech just outflagging the PlayStation a little bit more because somehow Microsoft's figured out how to do it natively with HDR improvements and things like that, frame rate, whereas the stuff for the PlayStation has to be curated.
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:45.920
Phil: So there are games that aren't necessarily upgraded and games that are, but the load times are consistent for both.
00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:52.020
Phil: So PlayStation obviously is loading it faster than on the current generation.
00:41:52.840 --> 00:42:18.320
Phil: I was really thinking about, because now that Sony has revealed that the PlayStation 5 is fully compatible with almost all of the PlayStation 4 library, this I'm thinking would be a great time to take advantage of one of those GameStop or EB Games offers where they say, you know, pre-order a PlayStation 5 and we'll give you a $200 credit if you hand in a PlayStation 4.
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:26.860
Phil: Because if it's playing PlayStation 5 games flawlessly, and pretty much all of them, then why keep around the old hardware?
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:31.400
Phil: I mean, $200 off a $700 console, that's a great savings.
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:41.140
Tom: I personally could sell my PS4 and buy a new PS5 for a profit as it has PT on it.
00:42:42.380 --> 00:42:43.020
Phil: Yeah, you're right.
00:42:43.040 --> 00:42:46.600
Phil: PT was a PlayStation 4, and mine, I also have PT on it.
00:42:46.600 --> 00:42:48.520
Phil: Is that selling, seriously?
00:42:49.060 --> 00:42:53.320
Tom: Yep, I believe it is selling for upwards of $1,000.
00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:54.100
Phil: Are you kidding me?
00:42:54.660 --> 00:42:55.280
Tom: No, I'm not.
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.120
Phil: Okay, I'll send you my PlayStation 4, can you sell it for me?
00:42:58.140 --> 00:43:00.460
Phil: And you can keep $200 off the top.
00:43:00.680 --> 00:43:01.300
Phil: I'm serious.
00:43:02.620 --> 00:43:05.500
Phil: I don't want to go through the hassle of actually doing it, but I'll send it to you.
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:08.020
Tom: Potentially.
00:43:08.420 --> 00:43:18.920
Phil: The one thing I'm worried about is okay, it's backward compatible, but does that mean when I go put my PlayStation 4 disc in it, it now has to go out and download a 200 gig?
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:22.020
Phil: You know what I'm saying?
00:43:24.820 --> 00:43:25.700
Phil: That would not be great.
00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:29.160
Phil: Yeah, so look, it's all steaming ahead.
00:43:29.180 --> 00:43:34.360
Phil: I mean, if I were to get a new console today, I'd be really struck.
00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:35.600
Phil: You can't buy them in Australia.
00:43:35.620 --> 00:43:36.300
Phil: They're sold out.
00:43:37.060 --> 00:43:41.440
Phil: On the Microsoft side, I love the look of the Series X.
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:45.020
Phil: I think it has a lot going for it.
00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:49.620
Phil: I'm a big fan of the backward compatibility, but there's no games for it.
00:43:51.560 --> 00:43:59.500
Phil: I know there are some games for it, like Yakuza 7 Like a Dragon, which is an exclusive until around January or February.
00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:17.060
Phil: But on the PlayStation 5 side, you've got this really very interesting haptic controller that would give you the feeling of having a new generation or something new as opposed to just upgrading your hardware so you can play your current games.
00:44:17.980 --> 00:44:28.680
Tom: One interesting thing about the haptic controller is from most trailers of PS5 games I've seen, they're not really alluded to it at all.
00:44:29.160 --> 00:44:37.260
Phil: No, it's really only come out in the last week, week and a half with people with hands-on impressions of it.
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:41.380
Phil: They haven't really made a big deal out of it and it's apparently very, very impressive.
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:46.020
Tom: So it is being made use of, but they are not advertising it for some reason.
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:47.340
Phil: Yeah, for some reason.
00:44:48.340 --> 00:44:48.940
Phil: I don't know why.
00:44:49.680 --> 00:44:54.960
Tom: Maybe it is because of the bad rap controls doing anything different get.
00:44:55.620 --> 00:44:57.120
Phil: Yeah, so they're just downplaying that.
00:44:57.140 --> 00:45:00.020
Phil: I don't know, though.
00:45:00.040 --> 00:45:04.060
Phil: It's such an innovation and everyone has uniformly praised it.
00:45:05.220 --> 00:45:12.320
Phil: I remember being introduced to the concept of haptic controls with Igor Bobovich years ago.
00:45:12.340 --> 00:45:15.320
Phil: You know, it sounds like they're finally there.
00:45:15.340 --> 00:45:37.320
Tom: Yep, but I think that could well be the strategy because if you think about, for instance, VR controllers, while there is some reference made to them in the advertising for VR headsets, the main focus is on the screen and refresh rates and all that sort of thing.
00:45:37.900 --> 00:45:45.140
Tom: And then without having advertised that in the reviews, there will be a lot of talk about the controls themselves.
00:45:45.160 --> 00:45:51.060
Tom: And if they've been doing anything interesting or different, that will get really emphasized in the reviews.
00:45:51.140 --> 00:45:58.580
Tom: So they may be going for a similar strategy like that given the bad rap that motion controls got.
00:45:58.600 --> 00:46:09.040
Tom: Not that this is motion controls, but it is interfering with the frightening, with the, sorry, fears of gamers of having to potentially do something different.
00:46:09.260 --> 00:46:09.840
Phil: Exactly.
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:11.420
Phil: Yeah, no, that's an excellent point.
00:46:11.540 --> 00:46:20.260
Phil: And let the influencers push that when it's working and used effectively as opposed to scaring people.
00:46:20.380 --> 00:46:29.720
Phil: Because I can guarantee that 98 out of 100 people, if you tell them it's got a, quote, new haptic controller, that will freak them out.
00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:31.720
Phil: They're like, what the, you know, what does that mean?
00:46:31.740 --> 00:46:33.120
Phil: No, I, you know, work.
00:46:34.740 --> 00:46:45.120
Phil: But if they hear that, you know, oh, the motion, you know, when you're using a controller, it feels like you're actually walking through sand or walking through snow, however the hell they do that, then that's great.
00:46:45.860 --> 00:46:58.480
Phil: So yeah, I mean, at this point, I would be happy to be buying either one of them, but I gotta tell you, man, this whole download thing and update thing has really bummed me out about modern gaming this week.
00:46:58.940 --> 00:47:02.280
Phil: I'm kind of down on the whole thing, and that's kind of why I like the Switch.
00:47:02.300 --> 00:47:04.940
Phil: As I said earlier, I know that the updates are gonna be small.
00:47:04.940 --> 00:47:08.480
Phil: It all comes on a cartridge, and I can play it portably.
00:47:09.100 --> 00:47:18.380
Phil: So it's funny how the, you know, my tastes in platform holder changes, has changed over the year and continues to change.
00:47:19.420 --> 00:47:20.900
Phil: But that's just where I'm at right now.
00:47:21.500 --> 00:47:32.760
Phil: And yeah, so I don't really want to belabor that point, but you know, I put in a copy of Halo Master Chief Collection, because I heard that that's finally working well.
00:47:33.820 --> 00:47:41.740
Phil: And I put it in my Xbox One and said, hey, you know, congratulations, there's a 110 gigabyte update.
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:44.000
Phil: And I was like, well, I don't need that.
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:53.580
Tom: By the way, that 110 gigabyte update would be literally the entire game, because that's about how big the download for it is on PC.
00:47:53.720 --> 00:47:56.640
Phil: Yeah, so they're essentially using this.
00:47:56.940 --> 00:48:00.660
Phil: And this game, by the way, you used to work on my Xbox One.
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:03.700
Phil: So like I used to be able to play whatever was on it before.
00:48:03.720 --> 00:48:09.940
Phil: And now they're basically saying, well, that disk that you put in your system is your authentication that you've actually paid for it.
00:48:10.640 --> 00:48:20.660
Phil: So we'll sit back and we'll now download the latest version of the game, which, you know, so I was like, I'm not going to, I was like, damn it, I should get on eBay and just sell this copy of this game now.
00:48:20.680 --> 00:48:34.500
Phil: But I'm hanging in there because, you know, my internet situation might change in a year and I'll have a nice new Xbox and I'll want to have the Master Chief experience because apparently it's really good now.
00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:39.320
Phil: And I'd love to be able to play Halo 2 online again, like we did back in the day.
00:48:40.560 --> 00:48:51.840
Tom: Well, I think it won't be like it was back in the day because as far as I'm aware, the online system is basically a combination of the different games.
00:48:52.700 --> 00:48:56.600
Tom: So you're not literally playing Halo 2 online.
00:48:57.060 --> 00:49:00.460
Tom: You can play elements of Halo 2 online.
00:49:01.720 --> 00:49:02.640
Tom: That could be wrong.
00:49:02.660 --> 00:49:08.440
Tom: That's what I gathered from glancing at the multiplayer to play in Master Chief Collection.
00:49:09.460 --> 00:49:13.860
Phil: Have you been playing any of the Master Chief Collection?
00:49:14.640 --> 00:49:26.840
Tom: Yes, I have now finished Halo 3 and Halo 3 ODST after the tremendously disappointing experience of the first level of Halo Reach.
00:49:28.860 --> 00:49:37.160
Tom: And I believe we had first impressions for Halo 3 a couple of episodes ago, or perhaps even in the last episode.
00:49:37.780 --> 00:49:46.420
Tom: But I have now finished it, and again, after Halo Reach, it is a huge relief that Halo 3 is so good.
00:49:46.440 --> 00:50:07.960
Tom: And Halo 3, at least the campaign, but it also applies to how the online multiplayer feels as well, to a degree, I think is the most misrepresented and simultaneously overrated and underrated first-person shooter, if not game, full stop.
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:27.040
Tom: Because it gets huge praise as, say, building on something like Half-Life, with it being a very narrative-driven experience and all about the story and pacing, and that is there to a degree.
00:50:27.740 --> 00:50:42.220
Tom: But the reason that Halo campaigns are worth playing isn't that at all, but that at certain times, you have this completely unique gameplay mechanics of Halo that is unlike any other first-person shooter.
00:50:42.460 --> 00:50:55.700
Tom: And you have certain sections in levels or even whole levels sometimes, where the combinations of enemies that absolutely, for some reason people think the AI is good.
00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:57.100
Tom: I think they're confused.
00:50:57.500 --> 00:51:26.020
Tom: What makes the enemies good in Halo is the way the different weapons interact, the way their shields work, and how that affects you going for headshots, and also the fact that they have completely different strategies, not so much in how they behave, but in how you have to combat them because of how their weapons work and their use of shields and that sort of thing.
00:51:26.240 --> 00:51:46.060
Tom: So in the best levels, you end up with moments that are like Doom, where you are running all over the place, and not necessarily purely aggressively, but simultaneously being chased by enemies, as well as attacking enemies and having to make creative use of your weapons.
00:51:46.380 --> 00:52:16.800
Tom: And another thing that really contributes to a unique campaign experience is how scarce the ammo is, so that you're having to constantly cycle through different weapons, and sometimes try and save powerful weapons for certain situations, but often you're forced to use them on weak enemies, which will then result in you having to use a weak weapon on a group of stronger enemies, and really having to improvise a clever strategy to be able to deal with it.
00:52:17.600 --> 00:52:22.500
Tom: And the Halo 3 campaign has many, many moments of this.
00:52:22.520 --> 00:52:46.600
Tom: It's a big step up from the Halo 2 campaign, to say the least, and from what I remember of the Halo campaign, it is much tighter in the good moments, and less, though still perhaps too many, moments of just wandering around, being fed the next bit of the story.
00:52:47.700 --> 00:52:52.500
Phil: Yeah, I actually, in retrospect, I actually really enjoyed Halo 2 and 3.
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:53.760
Phil: I thought they were great.
00:52:53.920 --> 00:53:02.040
Phil: Good games, very enjoyable, and obviously the mechanics of the shooting in the games, I don't think anyone disagrees with, is quite strong.
00:53:02.380 --> 00:53:16.360
Phil: To your point about enemy AI in Halo, it reminded me that one of the things I really wish Project Warlock had, which is what Doom had, which is the friendly fire element.
00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:19.680
Phil: So friendly fire does occur in Project Warlock.
00:53:20.160 --> 00:53:23.040
Phil: If an enemy gets in the way of another enemy, they will die.
00:53:23.980 --> 00:53:33.480
Phil: But there's not the sort of thing that happens in Doom where if you put two enemies in the same room, they will go after each other just as much as they'll go after you.
00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:37.440
Phil: And I think that's where Project Warlock fell down on the game.
00:53:37.460 --> 00:53:41.600
Tom: I think that would have made Project Warlock a bit too chaotic.
00:53:42.220 --> 00:53:45.040
Phil: Yeah, I think I would have appreciated it.
00:53:45.060 --> 00:53:58.600
Phil: And perhaps not all of them go after each other, but if you could have certain character types not get along, so they'd leave 9 out of 10 of the others OK, but they really hated imps.
00:53:58.900 --> 00:54:01.720
Tom: Yeah, I think there were a couple of moments of that.
00:54:02.200 --> 00:54:02.940
Phil: I haven't seen it.
00:54:03.060 --> 00:54:03.740
Phil: I haven't seen it.
00:54:03.940 --> 00:54:08.200
Phil: I've seen accidental friendly fire, but I haven't seen anywhere they've actually turned on each other.
00:54:08.720 --> 00:54:11.760
Phil: But the enemy AI in Halo, I think you're right.
00:54:11.780 --> 00:54:12.980
Phil: I think people are confused.
00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:27.180
Phil: I think one of the things that why people think the enemy AI in Halo is good is because it was new to a game when it came out to have distinct character types demonstrate different AI or different responses.
00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:35.960
Phil: So you would have in a game like Doom, you'd have different enemies that had different movement patterns and different strengths and things like that.
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:40.740
Phil: But in terms of how they interacted with the player, it was consistent.
00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:48.460
Phil: Whereas in Halo, as we all know, the grunts reacted differently than other enemies.
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:55.640
Phil: I think that's where people get confused a little bit about the capabilities of enemy AI.
00:54:55.640 --> 00:54:56.560
Phil: I think that enemy AI...
00:54:56.580 --> 00:55:06.260
Tom: I think that's there to some degree in Doom, but certainly when you move to 3D first-person shooters, that does indeed go to the wayside.
00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:07.520
Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:55:07.820 --> 00:55:12.480
Phil: And it gets common these days, but I think that was just one of the first to do it.
00:55:12.940 --> 00:55:20.060
Phil: And of course, you know, Halo exposed itself to a lot of people that hadn't been playing first-person shooters on the PC as well.
00:55:20.080 --> 00:55:24.120
Phil: So I think it benefits from that Halo effect.
00:55:24.740 --> 00:55:26.700
Phil: If you'll pardon the pun, we'll play on words.
00:55:27.820 --> 00:55:28.880
Tom: Yes, absolutely.
00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:59.720
Tom: And just the other thing that stands out about it as well is, obviously, one of the things that stands out about Halo is even though it's got a lot of pretty on-the-nose science fiction influences in its aesthetic, the way it puts them together is utterly engrossing and it uses some lower-brow things like jungles combined with higher-brow science fiction things in a really interesting way.
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:16.880
Tom: And the music use of orchestra, rock music, quote, tribal, end quote, drums and that sort of thing is just unlike any other first-person shooter as well and unlike many other games for that matter.
00:56:17.500 --> 00:56:35.220
Phil: Well, I've got to wonder, you know, Marty O'Donnell, who was the composer on Halo, you know, you're talking about the tribal drums and all the rest of it, he must have been a real asshole or something because they fired him off of Destiny a couple of years ago.
00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:39.900
Phil: And you're thinking like, how much must a composer really piss people off?
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:46.480
Phil: Because it's not like he's in the office every day, you know, for you to fire him because he was doing capable work.
00:56:47.160 --> 00:56:47.560
Phil: I mean...
00:56:47.580 --> 00:56:49.740
Tom: He was doing more than capable work.
00:56:50.200 --> 00:56:53.480
Phil: Yeah, I mean, you know, he was doing good work.
00:56:53.800 --> 00:57:00.080
Phil: And they fired the guy and it wasn't like a, you know, pat on the back memo that went out or anything.
00:57:00.080 --> 00:57:03.380
Phil: So anyway, you got to wonder what was going on there.
00:57:03.400 --> 00:57:04.500
Phil: So that's Halo 3.
00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:09.640
Phil: You said you've also beaten the worst Halo game of all time.
00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:17.020
Phil: Well, actually, Halo 4 and 5 are pretty horrible, but nothing is worse as a video game.
00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:20.700
Phil: I'll tell you what Halo ODST reminds me of.
00:57:21.120 --> 00:57:24.360
Phil: I don't know if you remember me playing the game Chicago in Forces.
00:57:25.140 --> 00:57:25.780
Tom: Yes, I do.
00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:27.340
Phil: Yeah, that's what ODST-
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:29.500
Tom: I'm still to yet get around to playing.
00:57:30.460 --> 00:57:34.280
Phil: That's what ODST reminded me of in many, many ways.
00:57:40.940 --> 00:57:42.720
Phil: so this was your first time you've actually played it?
00:57:43.340 --> 00:57:43.860
Tom: Correct.
00:57:45.980 --> 00:57:51.400
Tom: And at first I was relieved that it was not as bad as Halo Reach.
00:57:52.680 --> 00:57:55.700
Tom: That quickly faded to the wayside.
00:57:55.720 --> 00:58:25.800
Tom: As I was saying, the wonderful thing about Halo that makes the campaigns worth playing and sitting through the down moments that are totally uninteresting and just a drag to get through, is those improvisational moments where enemies are in an interesting environment, in an interesting combination, and you really have to think about what you're doing, what weapons you're using, what weapons the enemies are using, and all that sort of thing.
00:58:26.080 --> 00:58:43.760
Tom: That rather disappears in Halo ODOST because literally half of the game, if not 60% of it, is you wandering through identically designed city streets and street corners with identical enemy arrangements.
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:53.700
Tom: So you'll be going along, you get to an open area, in the open area there's a bunch of enemies in the middle, a long way away, and some snipers in the corners.
00:58:53.740 --> 00:58:57.920
Tom: And so you kill the snipers first, then you go to the enemies in the middle.
00:58:58.080 --> 00:59:02.740
Tom: And that's basically the entire combat loop for one half of the game.
00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:15.940
Tom: The rest of that time is spent wandering through these just terrible, drab and banal city streets that are totally soulless and void of all life.
00:59:16.900 --> 00:59:25.500
Tom: And the rest of it is almost Call of Duty style pacing set pieces where everything is really controlled.
00:59:26.540 --> 00:59:37.120
Tom: There are one or two exceptions to that, like the end of the tank mission where you have to survive an onslaught of enemies being dropped in.
00:59:37.200 --> 00:59:42.100
Tom: That was one moment that stood out of allowing for some spontaneous gameplay.
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:59.900
Tom: But for the most part, the levels are, you just drive a ghost around for 20 minutes as an example, or you go through a bunch of corridors with successively more powerful enemies as you would in a more generic first person shooter.
00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:07.720
Tom: And it just feels like Bungie does not want to make Halo anymore and wants to be making a different game.
01:00:08.240 --> 01:00:44.720
Tom: The story as well goes from being an interesting combination of generic sci-fi influences, but one that mixes the high brow and the low brow in an interesting way to some awful degrade action movie narrative with one moment that is just brilliant where there is a romantic subplot and the scene where the two characters finally confess their feelings for one another and kiss is just so unbelievably hilarious.
01:00:44.740 --> 01:00:46.660
Tom: It almost makes it worth it.
01:00:47.260 --> 01:00:54.640
Tom: But other than that as the highlight of the game, it is coming from Halo 3 an incredible disappointment.
01:00:54.980 --> 01:01:00.820
Phil: I recently listened to episode 98 of our podcast because I missed speaking with you.
01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:06.060
Phil: And in there we reenacted a scene from Splatoon where we were talking about baby corn.
01:01:06.500 --> 01:01:10.860
Phil: I'd like us to recreate a scene from Halo ODST.
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:14.640
Phil: I've just sent you a script that's out of the manual if you can see that.
01:01:15.460 --> 01:01:17.640
Phil: I'll put Halo music behind this.
01:01:17.660 --> 01:01:21.980
Phil: I think we should reenact this scene when you're ready, if you've got that up there.
01:01:22.640 --> 01:01:27.480
Phil: And I'll say the first line and then you're the second.
01:01:27.540 --> 01:01:30.060
Phil: So do you see those little indicators on there?
01:01:30.680 --> 01:01:31.420
Tom: Yes, I do.
01:01:35.780 --> 01:01:36.960
Phil: Make it quick, Captain.
01:01:37.080 --> 01:01:39.640
Phil: You're not the only bee buzzing in my hive today.
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.040
Tom: Of course, sir.
01:01:42.260 --> 01:01:44.500
Tom: There's a priority asset in the city.
01:01:44.620 --> 01:01:45.940
Tom: We need to pull it out.
01:01:46.600 --> 01:01:48.040
Phil: Can you be more specific?
01:01:49.160 --> 01:01:51.700
Tom: Sending you me report with relevant image.
01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:53.760
Phil: I'll be damned.
01:01:54.160 --> 01:01:57.920
Phil: Either the Covenant's getting Masturbator, or we're getting lucky.
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:00.480
Tom: Let's hope a little bit of both.
01:02:01.300 --> 01:02:03.400
Phil: This intel didn't come from your shop?
01:02:04.360 --> 01:02:05.120
Tom: No, sir.
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:09.580
Tom: For the public city's security cameras in the urinals.
01:02:10.300 --> 01:02:11.240
Phil: Verification.
01:02:12.300 --> 01:02:14.200
Phil: And unfortunately, that's all we've got.
01:02:14.220 --> 01:02:19.340
Phil: This is an example of the dialogue they were proud to include in the manual.
01:02:19.900 --> 01:02:23.160
Tom: It's not even as good as our embellished version.
01:02:23.180 --> 01:02:30.960
Phil: No, because there was a flash flare on the image, so I couldn't read either the Covenant's getting something or we're getting lucky.
01:02:32.120 --> 01:02:34.580
Phil: But when he says we need to pull it out, that's what she said.
01:02:36.020 --> 01:02:50.540
Phil: Back in episode 55, and this is an incredible introduction, in episode 55 of The Game Under Podcast, we were supposed to do a big show, but instead you suggested that we do the longest trademark banter segment ever.
01:02:51.200 --> 01:02:59.700
Phil: And the result was a show of chaos featuring everything from the jazz piano stylings of Halo 3 ODST, so I must have pulled that before.
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:05.480
Phil: This is the episode where I revealed Barack Obama's cameo in Advent Rising.
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:12.660
Phil: I don't know if you remember, there was Barack Obama was mentioned in Advent Rising.
01:03:13.420 --> 01:03:16.540
Phil: And we also talked about Murdered Soul Suspect.
01:03:17.540 --> 01:03:18.440
Phil: Do you remember that game?
01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:20.940
Tom: Yep, I reviewed that game, I believe.
01:03:22.140 --> 01:03:26.380
Phil: And I compared Mario Kart 8 to Huffing Paint, but in a good way.
01:03:28.240 --> 01:03:29.580
Phil: So, yeah.
01:03:29.600 --> 01:03:30.640
Tom: It was a bad way.
01:03:30.720 --> 01:03:31.780
Phil: It sounds like a good episode.
01:03:32.440 --> 01:03:34.660
Phil: Episode 55 Game Under Podcast is actually...
01:03:35.140 --> 01:03:36.280
Phil: Sorry, why do I bring that up?
01:03:36.580 --> 01:03:41.000
Phil: That's the episode in which I gave my impressions of Halo ODST.
01:03:41.720 --> 01:03:43.220
Phil: So, I'm glad we brought back...
01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:47.680
Phil: You should be on the lookout for dialogue in your games that we can reenact on the show.
01:03:48.100 --> 01:03:49.100
Phil: I think people would love it.
01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:50.100
Phil: I know I love it.
01:03:50.120 --> 01:03:52.460
Phil: I mean, I might get a gig out of it.
01:03:52.500 --> 01:03:54.080
Phil: I mean, I thought my acting was pretty good.
01:03:54.820 --> 01:03:57.320
Tom: We could add it to your acting resume.
01:03:57.420 --> 01:03:58.580
Phil: I thought you were going to add it to...
01:03:58.940 --> 01:04:03.080
Phil: I thought you were going to go with a pimply-voiced teen for your part.
01:04:04.120 --> 01:04:10.620
Tom: No, I was subtly directing it towards the innuendo of carry-on.
01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:11.100
Phil: Yes.
01:04:11.120 --> 01:04:11.940
Tom: And succeeded.
01:04:12.040 --> 01:04:13.260
Phil: Yeah, it was very camp.
01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:13.760
Phil: It was good.
01:04:14.020 --> 01:04:16.760
Phil: Anyway, good improv.
01:04:16.780 --> 01:04:24.460
Phil: So I am absolutely thrilled to hear that you had the same disgust with ODST that I did.
01:04:24.640 --> 01:04:26.660
Phil: The most frustrating thing about it was...
01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:39.240
Phil: And the thing that was most like Chicago Enforcer is walking around this personality-less city with everything looking the same, with mediocre enemies, and just getting lost constantly.
01:04:39.460 --> 01:04:40.420
Phil: It was terrible.
01:04:41.520 --> 01:04:42.580
Phil: Absolutely terrible.
01:04:42.900 --> 01:04:44.060
Phil: It's a piece of garbage.
01:04:44.540 --> 01:04:46.040
Tom: It is horrendous.
01:04:46.160 --> 01:04:51.420
Phil: I think the only reason they made it is kind of like, you know those artists that have like a seven album deal with a publisher?
01:04:51.700 --> 01:04:54.720
Phil: It's like Bungie had a seven game deal.
01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:59.740
Phil: And it's like, OK, well, we'll spit out Halo Wars, a real time strategy.
01:05:00.140 --> 01:05:02.800
Phil: And then this ODST thing, which is a joke.
01:05:03.200 --> 01:05:05.940
Phil: And this is Gargan's favorite Halo?
01:05:07.380 --> 01:05:08.140
Phil: I think so.
01:05:08.160 --> 01:05:10.100
Tom: Surely for online though.
01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:12.900
Phil: Well, you know, he's the anti Phil.
01:05:12.920 --> 01:05:18.360
Phil: Because Reach to me is the best Halo game ever.
01:05:19.040 --> 01:05:20.500
Phil: And ODST is the worst.
01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:24.560
Phil: I was under the impression that he thought Reach was the worst and ODST was the best.
01:05:25.060 --> 01:05:27.500
Phil: This is the clown from Endless Backline.
01:05:27.520 --> 01:05:30.000
Tom: He certainly thinks Reach is the worst campaign.
01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:36.860
Tom: But I don't know if his love for ODST is based on the campaign or the multiplayer.
01:05:37.980 --> 01:05:40.400
Phil: So how many cats me out?
01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:42.240
Phil: Do you have anything else to say about ODST?
01:05:42.260 --> 01:05:43.760
Phil: It's just a complete waste of time, right?
01:05:43.780 --> 01:05:44.640
Phil: It's a piece of garbage.
01:05:45.300 --> 01:05:48.200
Tom: I think it's already pretty much summarized.
01:05:49.120 --> 01:05:52.380
Tom: There's really nothing to add about how bad it is.
01:05:52.400 --> 01:06:00.720
Tom: Other than I did enjoy, it really showed how totally uninspired they were.
01:06:01.600 --> 01:06:07.880
Tom: One of the things that stands out about Halo 1 to 3 is each game feels like a passion project.
01:06:08.820 --> 01:06:21.600
Tom: The only part of Halo 3 ODST that felt like any sort of love had got into it were the voice log cartoons.
01:06:22.580 --> 01:06:33.280
Tom: And when your voice log cartoons are the only part of the game where some sort of affection is apparent from the people creating it, that's not a good sign.
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:35.700
Phil: No, it's not.
01:06:35.960 --> 01:06:37.140
Phil: But you know what is a good sign?
01:06:38.640 --> 01:06:48.740
Phil: Your writing at gameunder.net, the website that accompanies this podcast, I put up a review of Kind Words, Lo-Fi Chill Beats to write to.
01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:54.000
Phil: Now when I asked you online if you played this game, you said there's a game of that.
01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:57.880
Phil: What is Lo-Fi Chill Beats to write to?
01:06:58.620 --> 01:07:00.000
Phil: What is Lo-Fi Chill Beats?
01:07:00.020 --> 01:07:00.540
Phil: What is that?
01:07:01.980 --> 01:07:04.620
Tom: That would be, what's the term?
01:07:04.640 --> 01:07:06.760
Tom: That would be like Vaporwave, that sort of thing.
01:07:07.380 --> 01:07:07.800
Phil: What's that?
01:07:07.820 --> 01:07:13.220
Tom: That sort of generic, poppy, rap-influenced beats.
01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:20.740
Tom: Basically the modern version of world music or elevator music, essentially.
01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:25.380
Phil: Well, I reviewed that game, and up until Project Warlock, that was going to be my game of the year, definitely.
01:07:26.240 --> 01:07:28.220
Phil: So go read my review there.
01:07:28.640 --> 01:07:36.960
Phil: And then you reviewed Vampyr, or Vampire, which is another game that I really want to play.
01:07:37.720 --> 01:07:43.800
Phil: It's not at my price point yet, but yeah, I really want to play that game.
01:07:44.240 --> 01:07:45.580
Phil: And so go read that review.
01:07:45.600 --> 01:07:49.720
Phil: A game that I'm rarely interested in, and I don't know if you can...
01:07:50.020 --> 01:07:57.860
Tom: Before we move on to my wonderful writing in more detail, we should give Halo 3 and ODST a score.
01:07:57.880 --> 01:07:58.460
Phil: Oh, I'm sorry.
01:07:58.520 --> 01:07:59.620
Phil: Yeah, of course.
01:08:00.380 --> 01:08:03.360
Tom: The dice is handy and ready to roll.
01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:07.380
Phil: Okay, I'm looking in the Scores Archive at gameunder.net to see if I've scored it.
01:08:08.260 --> 01:08:09.080
Phil: And I have not.
01:08:09.260 --> 01:08:10.480
Phil: Okay, you got the dice ready?
01:08:10.700 --> 01:08:11.680
Phil: The die of destiny?
01:08:12.920 --> 01:08:17.260
Tom: I do indeed, and it will be Halo 3, which is scored first.
01:08:17.500 --> 01:08:17.880
Phil: Okay.
01:08:20.400 --> 01:08:23.120
Tom: Uh, Halo 3 gets a 1 out of 10.
01:08:23.980 --> 01:08:26.700
Phil: Okay, well, I gotta say that's pretty harsh.
01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:30.600
Tom: It's very harsh, unfortunately.
01:08:30.780 --> 01:08:31.140
Phil: Yeah.
01:08:31.640 --> 01:08:36.060
Tom: And the odds are that Halo 3 ODST will score higher than Halo 3.
01:08:42.724 --> 01:08:51.564
Tom: Halo 3 ODST gets a 6 out of 10, making it 6 times better than Halo 3.
01:08:51.584 --> 01:08:52.044
Phil: Yep, yep.
01:08:52.064 --> 01:08:54.104
Phil: Well, no one can argue with your scoring system.
01:08:54.644 --> 01:08:57.384
Phil: I'm looking at our scores archive at my website.
01:08:57.704 --> 01:09:02.904
Phil: The only Halo game that I've got up there is Halo 5, which I gave a 6.5 out of 10.
01:09:03.744 --> 01:09:04.824
Phil: So for...
01:09:04.964 --> 01:09:07.784
Tom: It's slightly better than Halo 3 ODST.
01:09:07.804 --> 01:09:15.184
Phil: Well, if me and you are dire on the same scoring scale, but you know what a 6.5 means for me.
01:09:16.904 --> 01:09:18.524
Tom: Well, it depends on when you scored it.
01:09:18.604 --> 01:09:19.644
Phil: Well, that's true.
01:09:20.984 --> 01:09:26.064
Phil: But I basically have a 10 point scale that's distributed over 7 and 8.5.
01:09:27.364 --> 01:09:28.824
Phil: And then everything else is a 10.
01:09:31.064 --> 01:09:32.464
Phil: So, but back to...
01:09:33.164 --> 01:09:34.184
Phil: Thank you for the interruption.
01:09:35.184 --> 01:09:53.684
Phil: One of the things I hope you interrupt me on is you've recently got an editorial up there from Christian Prophet to Christian Prophet, and everyone knows what that means, pH to a F, part one, and talking about Jordan B.
01:09:53.704 --> 01:10:02.204
Phil: Peterson's book, Maps of Meaning, I think it's really well written, but more than that, it's interesting.
01:10:02.864 --> 01:10:10.764
Phil: And I've only got about two thirds of the way through it, unfortunately, but do you have anything to say about that?
01:10:12.424 --> 01:10:25.564
Tom: The only thing I would add for keen scientific historians, I would just say that I'm not suggesting that there was some sort of delineation between alchemy and scientific practices.
01:10:25.584 --> 01:10:54.324
Tom: My point is merely that it's partially for that reason, not really possible to make a good argument that alchemy grows into modeling scientific practices, given that simultaneously as the modern chemistry is developing non-alchemical, sorry, as modern chemistry is developing, alchemical chemistry is happening simultaneously.
01:10:56.884 --> 01:11:02.764
Tom: So it doesn't really develop out of it, but is a separate thing occurring at the same time.
01:11:03.304 --> 01:11:18.124
Phil: And you may disagree with me, but I also, you know, my whole thing about chronocentrism, which is a term that I coined, and that is, you know, you're basically seeing things through the lens of your current environment.
01:11:19.264 --> 01:11:20.044
Phil: You know, when...
01:11:20.044 --> 01:11:29.004
Tom: I thought this was about how chronotrigr is meant to be the greatest JRPG, and all other JRPGs must be compared to it.
01:11:29.024 --> 01:11:43.124
Phil: No, far from it, but you know, chronocentrism also would indicate that, you know, at the time where doctors were using leeches to bleed people, that was science, and it was indisputable, and you can't disagree with it.
01:11:43.324 --> 01:11:59.244
Phil: And I think it's arrogant and short-sighted to assume that the current mode of technology across all elements of learning and application, at its peak, or are perfect or are correct.
01:11:59.444 --> 01:12:10.904
Phil: I don't think anyone would think that technology's at its peak, because we've obviously seen a fast evolution of technology, but yeah, I think that applies.
01:12:12.164 --> 01:12:30.004
Phil: In that essay, you were talking about history, and certainly for someone who's spent a lot of their life studying history and reading books about history, I've lost faith in them over the last five years, because ultimately, who are they to say?
01:12:30.024 --> 01:12:39.704
Phil: And you often have a lot of conflict between, there's no such thing as pure history, is I guess what I was saying.
01:12:41.364 --> 01:12:51.524
Phil: But yeah, it's very thought provoking, and even if it doesn't provoke the thoughts that you want, it's thought provoking, because it is good writing, and worthy of a read.
01:12:51.544 --> 01:12:55.064
Phil: So that's the number one story over at gameunder.net right now.
01:12:55.704 --> 01:13:01.124
Phil: Something I hope you do expand upon is your review of Art of Rally.
01:13:02.624 --> 01:13:08.364
Phil: There's a game out that I'm dying to play, which is Hotshot Racing.
01:13:08.644 --> 01:13:10.584
Phil: Are you familiar with Hotshot Racing?
01:13:11.584 --> 01:13:12.204
Tom: Yes, I am.
01:13:12.484 --> 01:13:15.684
Phil: Oh, yeah, so you've seen video of it, or?
01:13:16.344 --> 01:13:17.484
Tom: Yep, it looks pretty good.
01:13:17.984 --> 01:13:26.944
Phil: Yeah, it's something that's come to the fore for me only over the last week, so I haven't even researched if it's available on Switch.
01:13:26.984 --> 01:13:28.604
Phil: I want the cartridge.
01:13:28.624 --> 01:13:34.324
Phil: I don't want to just download it, because it sounds like it's right up my alley.
01:13:36.444 --> 01:13:48.404
Phil: And it has an artistic take on its presentation as it appears that Art of Rally does as well, the game that you reviewed on the site.
01:13:50.504 --> 01:14:03.104
Phil: So, did you just want to give a, I know you've got the review on the site and that's where we're sending people, but did you just want to give that game an endorsement or a beware or say anything really about it?
01:14:04.104 --> 01:14:10.344
Tom: Well, certainly the aesthetic, I think, is on a whole other level to Hotshot Racing.
01:14:10.364 --> 01:14:19.904
Tom: It is, it looks amazing and the nature of rally is really conducive to a great aesthetic.
01:14:19.924 --> 01:14:41.964
Tom: If you, whether you're doing it realistically or in a stylistic manner as it's done in Art of Rally, like in Dirt Rally or any great rally game, much of the experience is in the stages you're going through and the places you're driving through in a way that it isn't in other motorsports.
01:14:41.984 --> 01:14:45.224
Tom: So that is well through the, for the experience.
01:14:45.244 --> 01:15:00.744
Tom: But one humorous coincidence is like lo-fi beats, chill beats to write to, the soundtrack in Art of Rally is also in a similar vein.
01:15:00.764 --> 01:15:09.004
Tom: It is in fact pure vaporwave, which outside of Art of Rally, I would not listen to at all.
01:15:11.804 --> 01:15:28.404
Tom: Like world music, most vaporwave, pretty much all of it with very few exceptions is basically a watered down, soulless generic version of good things, basically.
01:15:28.584 --> 01:15:43.044
Tom: But in Art of Rally with the visual aesthetic and the brilliant engine noises, exhaust notes and tie noises accompanying the soundtrack, it actually works really well.
01:15:43.324 --> 01:15:50.324
Tom: But the thing that is shocking about it is how good the gameplay is.
01:15:51.224 --> 01:16:17.724
Tom: Essentially, rally games since more serious sims started to appear, there have been basically really arcadey ones, or ones with pretty good sim-like, or not on the level of Richburn's Rally, but attempting to be sim-like, but in a non-rally-like setting.
01:16:17.744 --> 01:16:31.184
Tom: For example, the Dirt series, which Dirt 1 as an example and Dirt 3, both have pretty good physics, but the setting is outside of the world of rallying.
01:16:32.404 --> 01:16:36.124
Tom: And motorsport, it's much more of a dude-bro sort of experience.
01:16:36.964 --> 01:17:00.724
Tom: Art of Rally also does something unique in rally in that it is a proper simcade driving experience, where like Gran Turismo, you can do all the proper driving techniques and it will contribute to getting a better time, but obviously it is unbelievably forgiving compared to an actual sim experience.
01:17:00.744 --> 01:17:04.524
Tom: So even if you're not doing that, you can still be perfectly competent in it.
01:17:06.144 --> 01:17:19.464
Tom: So it's a totally unique experience and it does something that arguably the Dirt series has been attempting to do for ages and never succeeded in doing and it does it here brilliantly well.
01:17:20.064 --> 01:17:28.024
Tom: And it, like a proper sim-cade experience, has elements of playing a sim game that work really well.
01:17:28.044 --> 01:17:32.444
Tom: And it's amazing that it does all of this in a third-person perspective.
01:17:32.864 --> 01:17:48.344
Tom: And the best example of this is when you're playing something like Dirt Rally and you are actually doing well in a course that you either know well or you're reading the calls really well.
01:17:48.864 --> 01:18:02.404
Tom: You get the sort of feeling that you are never actually turning and the entire course is just a straight line because you are perfectly oriented into and through and out of each corner.
01:18:03.504 --> 01:18:20.844
Tom: In Art of Rally, there are moments where you get the same sensation, even though it is in the third person, which is just amazing that you can have that in a third person rally game and one that is not a proper sim experience.
01:18:22.564 --> 01:18:24.564
Phil: The name of the game is Art of Rally.
01:18:25.504 --> 01:18:27.544
Phil: It's out only for PC and Mac.
01:18:28.544 --> 01:18:32.864
Phil: And both Art of Rally and Hotshot Racing are not available as physical.
01:18:34.584 --> 01:18:35.524
Phil: So that's a shame.
01:18:35.544 --> 01:18:37.104
Phil: I'm going to have to wait for that one.
01:18:37.124 --> 01:18:41.564
Phil: Do you know much about the developer, FundSelector?
01:18:42.564 --> 01:18:58.124
Tom: Yep, they also made Absolute Drift, which again has a surprisingly deep driving model and really plays into the aesthetic qualities of drifting, just as this does in Rally.
01:18:59.744 --> 01:19:10.924
Tom: Art of Drift is a minimalist sort of aesthetic, so Art of Rally is actually in stark contrast, but even better aesthetically.
01:19:11.244 --> 01:19:23.704
Phil: I know that the game's audio also received high marks, capturing the hisses and wheezes of classic rally cars, so you'd agree with that?
01:19:23.724 --> 01:19:26.744
Tom: Yep, I mentioned it in brief earlier.
01:19:28.364 --> 01:19:32.844
Phil: Yeah, so the reviews are up on the site, gameunder.net, Art of Rally.
01:19:34.024 --> 01:19:47.764
Phil: Would someone who likes myself, I'm talking about because I only care about myself, would someone like me be who likes rally games and also likes Gran Turismo on the sim side as well?
01:19:48.324 --> 01:19:51.844
Phil: I've never really gotten into the rally games for no real reason.
01:19:53.424 --> 01:19:56.324
Phil: You know, I got the Colin McRae games back in the day.
01:19:56.764 --> 01:19:59.144
Phil: I didn't like it when I got the first Dirt.
01:19:59.164 --> 01:20:02.404
Phil: They're now up to Dirt 5, which is out for the new consoles.
01:20:03.344 --> 01:20:06.404
Phil: Do you think I have anything to do with this game?
01:20:07.064 --> 01:20:10.824
Tom: Dirt 5, by the way, you may be interested in checking out.
01:20:10.844 --> 01:20:15.244
Tom: It's made, I believe, by the MotorStorm developers.
01:20:15.524 --> 01:20:16.024
Phil: Oh, okay.
01:20:16.824 --> 01:20:17.404
Phil: Yeah, all right.
01:20:21.244 --> 01:20:22.744
Tom: But I think there's a demo of it.
01:20:22.804 --> 01:20:23.824
Phil: It's a Kodi game.
01:20:23.844 --> 01:20:24.924
Phil: It's Codemasters.
01:20:25.524 --> 01:20:28.904
Tom: Dirt 5, yeah, but they picked up some of the devs from MotorStorm.
01:20:30.624 --> 01:20:32.704
Tom: But Art of Rally has a demo.
01:20:32.724 --> 01:21:12.204
Tom: I think even if you're not into rally games necessarily, it is worth checking out because due to the completely different perspective, it's a lot easier to get into than rally games usually are because one thing that, I don't know if it applies to you, but would put a lot of people off rally games who wouldn't be, who would be more accepting of other styles of racing is the fact that you have to basically take every single corner as a new thing with no further warning than the co-driver.
01:21:12.224 --> 01:21:16.304
Tom: So it's a very different experience to other styles of racing.
01:21:17.164 --> 01:21:23.644
Tom: In Art of Rally, there is no co-driver and due to the perspective, you can see usually several corners ahead of you.
01:21:23.664 --> 01:21:28.004
Tom: So it may be a easier experience to get into.
01:21:28.484 --> 01:21:50.104
Phil: We should say also if you go to gameunder.net and put in hardcore as the search term, we'll find that we named Richard Burns Rally, a 2004 game for the PlayStation 2 era, our number 4 game out of 10 in terms of games for hardcore gamers.
01:21:50.124 --> 01:21:50.904
Tom: We did indeed.
01:21:51.104 --> 01:21:54.804
Phil: That was one of your selections.
01:21:54.824 --> 01:21:56.884
Phil: You obviously have very fond memories of that.
01:21:57.944 --> 01:22:02.224
Tom: Yes, fond memories of failing to get force feedback to work in it.
01:22:03.904 --> 01:22:09.404
Phil: In our top 10, it was beat out by Sneak King, which was our number 3 selection.
01:22:10.304 --> 01:22:13.224
Phil: Did you have much to do with that selection?
01:22:15.084 --> 01:22:16.024
Tom: I'm not sure.
01:22:16.044 --> 01:22:19.084
Tom: I think that was all you.
01:22:19.164 --> 01:22:20.144
Phil: Yeah, probably.
01:22:20.164 --> 01:22:23.264
Phil: But I think that was actually a pretty funny review, actually.
01:22:23.284 --> 01:22:25.104
Phil: It was, you know, it's a two paragraph.
01:22:25.124 --> 01:22:26.184
Phil: It's not really a review.
01:22:27.184 --> 01:22:29.684
Tom: I don't think I wrote anything for that.
01:22:29.784 --> 01:22:37.344
Phil: Well, we've got to remind our listeners that in October of last year, we put together the top 10 games for hardcore gamers.
01:22:37.604 --> 01:22:40.164
Phil: And it's an entertaining read.
01:22:40.184 --> 01:22:50.824
Phil: If you go over to gameunder.net and just type in hardcore, you'll be disappointed to find that the only thing on there is our top 10 games for hardcore gamers.
01:22:51.524 --> 01:22:52.784
Phil: Well, thank you for that.
01:22:52.824 --> 01:22:54.624
Phil: And yeah, that does make me interested.
01:22:54.644 --> 01:23:03.324
Phil: I'm happy to see the aesthetic of these games like Hotshot Racing and Art of Rally.
01:23:03.904 --> 01:23:13.004
Phil: I'm enjoying the developers feeling the freedom to step outside of the photorealism for these driving games.
01:23:13.504 --> 01:23:29.124
Tom: I think we mentioned this in the last episode that, for instance, even PlayStation graphics are being made use of in horror games to great effect, as an example, in itch.io games and that sort of sphere.
01:23:29.584 --> 01:23:34.544
Tom: And that, I think, actually reminds us of a game we've both played, which is Perfect Vermin.
01:23:35.124 --> 01:23:35.584
Phil: Ah, yes.
01:23:36.164 --> 01:23:46.224
Phil: But I'm going to ruin your segue, much as you always ruin mine, by bringing up Teardown, which is in Alpha, I think, or early release.
01:23:46.244 --> 01:23:47.404
Tom: I think it just got released.
01:23:47.804 --> 01:23:49.004
Phil: I don't think it's out yet.
01:23:50.124 --> 01:24:03.764
Phil: But anyway, Teardown uses voxels and has a Minecrafty kind of thing, but it used voxels to great effect because they're great for physics, which is a game that I'm really interested in getting once it's in final release.
01:24:03.784 --> 01:24:04.564
Tom: Teardown?
01:24:04.664 --> 01:24:05.844
Phil: Yeah, Teardown, one word.
01:24:05.864 --> 01:24:06.104
Tom: Yes.
01:24:07.544 --> 01:24:09.484
Phil: It's available on Steam right now.
01:24:09.844 --> 01:24:13.104
Phil: It's been getting a lot of props.
01:24:13.124 --> 01:24:14.324
Tom: It has ray tracing.
01:24:14.824 --> 01:24:15.764
Phil: It does it, really?
01:24:16.824 --> 01:24:18.584
Phil: So you're very interested in it, I'm sure.
01:24:19.184 --> 01:24:19.704
Tom: For sure.
01:24:19.784 --> 01:24:26.344
Tom: And be warned if you do not have an Nvidia video card, you don't need to have a ray tracing one.
01:24:26.704 --> 01:24:34.044
Tom: But if you do not have an Nvidia video card of any sort, it currently runs horrendously.
01:24:34.764 --> 01:24:41.824
Tom: It was made on an Nvidia card and is currently only optimised for Nvidia cards.
01:24:41.844 --> 01:24:45.164
Tom: So be careful if you want to buy it.
01:24:45.444 --> 01:24:46.344
Tom: Bear that in mind.
01:24:46.364 --> 01:24:55.964
Tom: They do plan to optimise it for AMD cards though, but at this stage it is nigh on unplayable, depending on what settings you're using.
01:24:55.984 --> 01:24:58.144
Phil: And that's even if you don't want ray tracing turned on?
01:24:58.784 --> 01:24:59.264
Tom: Correct.
01:24:59.344 --> 01:24:59.764
Phil: Okay.
01:25:00.664 --> 01:25:02.644
Phil: Okay, now, sorry, back to your...
01:25:02.664 --> 01:25:05.524
Phil: That's actually very good, because I haven't heard that anywhere else.
01:25:05.984 --> 01:25:08.824
Phil: So that's really good input.
01:25:08.844 --> 01:25:17.184
Phil: Now, on itch.io, there is a game that you asked me to play called Perfect Vermin, and I did play it.
01:25:19.904 --> 01:25:20.684
Phil: So thank you very much.
01:25:23.664 --> 01:25:24.324
Tom: You're welcome.
01:25:24.344 --> 01:25:25.784
Phil: Yeah, it's a very short game.
01:25:26.744 --> 01:25:27.344
Tom: Yes, it is.
01:25:27.364 --> 01:25:29.024
Tom: Did you actually get to the ending?
01:25:29.684 --> 01:25:31.824
Phil: Yeah, yeah, of course, of course, of course.
01:25:32.404 --> 01:25:35.104
Phil: Yeah, yeah, it's a very easy game.
01:25:36.684 --> 01:25:47.564
Phil: I found it strangely provocative on the same level that when I first played Doom back in the day, you're kind of like, is this right?
01:25:47.964 --> 01:25:55.444
Phil: You know, am I, is this, should I be feeling this good about playing this, or does this mean that I'm a sick person?
01:25:55.464 --> 01:26:27.344
Tom: Well, it is a fascinating sensual experience because essentially the game consists of you looking for duplicate doppelganger creatures who are imitating furniture essentially, and when you hit them, they groan very expressively and meat flies everywhere with some very chunky sound effects, and it is very satisfying.
01:26:28.204 --> 01:26:29.904
Tom: The whole thing is very tactile.
01:26:29.924 --> 01:26:32.204
Phil: Let me just say this before we get any further.
01:26:32.224 --> 01:26:41.744
Phil: The name of the game is Perfect Vermin, and it's free on Steam, and it's free on itch.io.
01:26:43.224 --> 01:26:52.084
Phil: It's developed by Marcio Bob Meir and Angad Martharu, and it's published by them as well.
01:26:52.104 --> 01:27:00.864
Phil: It came out on Steam on the 7th of November, and it's got mostly positive reviews.
01:27:00.884 --> 01:27:05.884
Tom: They have actually made a few former notable indications of notable indie games as well.
01:27:07.284 --> 01:27:13.024
Tom: I can't remember the names, but one of them you play as some sort of human-headed fish, I believe.
01:27:13.304 --> 01:27:13.864
Phil: Seaman.
01:27:13.984 --> 01:27:15.924
Phil: That was a game actually on Dreamcast.
01:27:16.484 --> 01:27:18.304
Phil: I did not know they developed that.
01:27:18.804 --> 01:27:23.544
Phil: And that game starred Leonard Nimoy, and it was an early form of AI.
01:27:23.564 --> 01:27:28.364
Phil: It used the Dreamcast microphone because you could actually interact with them.
01:27:28.424 --> 01:27:29.924
Phil: So they made that game as well.
01:27:29.944 --> 01:27:30.644
Phil: That's incredible.
01:27:32.644 --> 01:27:46.784
Phil: So, in Perfect Vermin, it looks like the Steam version is a lot less pixelated because my memory of playing the itch.io version was that basically it did look like PlayStation-level graphics.
01:27:46.844 --> 01:27:47.164
Phil: Is that...
01:27:47.324 --> 01:27:49.844
Phil: Am I wrong or am I misremembering?
01:27:51.064 --> 01:27:56.244
Tom: I think there was a filter option that possibly altered that.
01:27:56.384 --> 01:28:09.964
Phil: Okay, well, it's a first-person action game where you are walking around a generic-looking modern office at night in a high-rise with a sledgehammer.
01:28:10.844 --> 01:28:14.644
Phil: And it has a lot of very...
01:28:15.324 --> 01:28:17.384
Phil: You know, everything's destructible.
01:28:17.904 --> 01:28:22.264
Phil: So, like in Tear Down, you go up and you can smash things and they'll break.
01:28:24.624 --> 01:28:29.304
Phil: And I think the tagline for the game is it's not murder if they're vermin.
01:28:29.984 --> 01:28:30.384
Tom: Yes.
01:28:30.624 --> 01:28:32.884
Phil: Okay, which is disturbing.
01:28:35.144 --> 01:28:37.904
Phil: I thought this game had a...
01:28:38.844 --> 01:28:50.844
Phil: The thing that I found about the game to be troubling was that tagline and also the manner in which you discover the things that you're supposed to kill in the game.
01:28:52.704 --> 01:28:53.064
Tom: I think...
01:28:53.264 --> 01:29:07.044
Tom: And I think going into the tagline is the subplot that seems to be describing the lead up to a mass shooting or something of that effect.
01:29:08.284 --> 01:29:08.804
Phil: Yes.
01:29:09.484 --> 01:29:11.464
Phil: Or a degree of racism.
01:29:12.204 --> 01:29:19.504
Phil: Or, you know, if you can regard your enemy as vermin, then it's not murder, you know.
01:29:20.164 --> 01:29:23.624
Phil: Now, do you want to help me describe how...
01:29:24.444 --> 01:29:26.304
Tom: That's what's fascinating about it.
01:29:26.424 --> 01:29:35.764
Tom: It's essentially using the rhetoric of violence, but it's not entirely clear whether that is directed at you.
01:29:35.804 --> 01:29:36.464
Tom: I mean, sorry.
01:29:36.684 --> 01:29:42.624
Tom: It's simultaneously directed at you, encouraging you to find these doppelgangers.
01:29:42.984 --> 01:29:43.304
Phil: Yeah.
01:29:43.804 --> 01:29:49.964
Tom: To stop an upcoming event of potential violence or something.
01:29:50.204 --> 01:29:59.964
Tom: So it's actually a surprisingly complex and interesting and accurate use of that sort of rhetoric.
01:29:59.984 --> 01:30:08.464
Tom: It does not just stop at the dehumanisation, but puts it in the context in which it is used usually.
01:30:08.744 --> 01:30:12.704
Phil: The description on Steam is, The task is simple, exterminate all vermin.
01:30:12.784 --> 01:30:21.264
Phil: The sledgehammer you have has been provided and it is capable of destroying almost all office appliances and furniture that may be uncooperative.
01:30:21.844 --> 01:30:23.724
Phil: Your time is running out.
01:30:24.564 --> 01:30:27.064
Phil: So you're supposed to do this as fast as possible.
01:30:27.084 --> 01:30:28.004
Phil: You've got a sledgehammer.
01:30:28.024 --> 01:30:33.404
Phil: You're running through this low pixel office with a sledgehammer that can destroy anything.
01:30:33.424 --> 01:30:35.244
Phil: But destroying the furniture is not the goal.
01:30:35.484 --> 01:30:39.524
Phil: You've got to find the furniture that is not where it's supposed to be.
01:30:39.984 --> 01:30:41.324
Phil: So I'm not going to spoil it.
01:30:41.344 --> 01:30:42.764
Phil: I'm going to make up something here, okay?
01:30:43.044 --> 01:30:50.764
Phil: So if you were to find a refrigerator in the cleaner's cupboard, then that's the one you're supposed to kill.
01:30:50.804 --> 01:31:02.764
Phil: And when you hit it with a sledgehammer, instead of just smashing up the refrigerator that's in the break room, it actually has blood and organs and they'll spill out on the ground.
01:31:04.224 --> 01:31:12.924
Phil: And you've got to identify the vermin as quickly as possible as you go through this office space.
01:31:13.484 --> 01:31:19.884
Phil: And they give you, you know, you finish it and then they say, okay, that was good, now do it in 68 seconds.
01:31:19.904 --> 01:31:21.764
Phil: Now that was good, now do it in 30 seconds.
01:31:21.784 --> 01:31:22.864
Phil: So they're speed running it.
01:31:23.944 --> 01:31:28.244
Phil: And unless I'm misremembering it, they move them around, is that right?
01:31:28.784 --> 01:31:34.384
Tom: Correct, there are several levels each with different placements of furniture.
01:31:34.764 --> 01:31:39.524
Phil: And in interspersing your runs, they have a guy come on that looks like a news anchor.
01:31:39.544 --> 01:31:43.704
Phil: He's kind of like the, I'd buy that for a dollar guy from the old Robocop movie.
01:31:45.664 --> 01:31:55.304
Phil: And that's the part that was disturbing because basically, what you have to identify are the things that are acting differently from the other things.
01:31:56.064 --> 01:32:09.664
Phil: And that's the subversive component of the game, because of course, in a society, you don't want the people who are doing things different to be the ones that are the ones that it's okay to kill.
01:32:09.684 --> 01:32:12.424
Tom: I think that's what you do want in a society.
01:32:12.444 --> 01:32:14.984
Phil: Well, that is not what I want in society.
01:32:15.004 --> 01:32:22.064
Phil: And that's certainly what happens in our society, you know, being pulled over for being black while driving.
01:32:24.584 --> 01:32:26.504
Tom: And that's the definition of a society.
01:32:26.524 --> 01:32:28.104
Phil: Yeah, that's the creepy part of the game.
01:32:30.304 --> 01:32:35.444
Phil: Because otherwise, there's no people in this game, don't get me wrong, there's no people, there's no rats, there's no birds.
01:32:35.784 --> 01:32:44.504
Phil: You're just going around killing office furniture like refrigerators, toilets, microwave ovens, things of that nature, office chairs.
01:32:44.984 --> 01:32:50.524
Phil: You know, you might come into an office and go, that office chair doesn't look like it belongs here.
01:32:51.064 --> 01:32:55.684
Phil: And then you go and kill it with a sledgehammer, and that was the vermin.
01:32:56.424 --> 01:33:15.324
Tom: And meanwhile, the commentary on your actions and the backstory of what's going on is presented through a news presenter who is progressively growing more and more tumors as the game goes along.
01:33:16.764 --> 01:33:20.244
Tom: And it ends, we're going to spoil this.
01:33:20.844 --> 01:33:46.884
Tom: Spoiler alert, but it ends essentially with you in a doctor's office, and many people's interpretation of it is what you were doing was going around destroying cancerous growths, but you could not successfully destroy them all, and thus the cancerous newscaster dies at the end.
01:33:47.864 --> 01:33:55.024
Tom: So that's basically the basic plot, and that's the simple interpretation of it.
01:33:55.404 --> 01:34:11.444
Tom: But given the violent rhetoric throughout it, could it not in fact be interpreted as a commentary on the progressively sensationalist direction of mass media itself?
01:34:12.564 --> 01:34:15.704
Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's a tremendously subversive game.
01:34:15.764 --> 01:34:16.844
Phil: It's very punk.
01:34:16.984 --> 01:34:17.484
Phil: I love it.
01:34:19.324 --> 01:34:22.424
Phil: I do want to point out one thing, much as you were talking about Art of Rally.
01:34:24.384 --> 01:34:33.304
Phil: Technically, I do want everyone to know that Perfect Vermin is not compatible with older Intel laptops, and it will encounter constant issues.
01:34:34.384 --> 01:34:42.664
Phil: That's something that the developer wanted to bring up, because obviously this is a big issue for people who wish to play the game on all...
01:34:42.684 --> 01:34:43.424
Tom: That is a shame.
01:34:43.584 --> 01:34:47.964
Phil: It is a tremendous shame, but it's probably still good on your 486.
01:34:48.084 --> 01:34:50.624
Phil: I thank you again for introducing me to this game.
01:34:51.364 --> 01:34:53.784
Phil: As I said, it's a deeply subversive game.
01:34:55.764 --> 01:35:00.124
Phil: I'm pretty sure that if I met the developers, I'd love to talk to them and share a beer with them.
01:35:00.404 --> 01:35:03.844
Phil: I'm pretty sure that they would not want to hang out with a narc like me.
01:35:06.144 --> 01:35:11.204
Tom: I know that immediately after that, you'd be texting the dude with the sledgehammer.
01:35:11.304 --> 01:35:11.664
Phil: Yeah.
01:35:12.784 --> 01:35:14.304
Phil: No, a great game, great game.
01:35:14.324 --> 01:35:18.604
Phil: Again, in itch.io, they have a lot of games on there that you can play for free.
01:35:18.624 --> 01:35:19.984
Phil: You didn't have to get in on the sale.
01:35:20.004 --> 01:35:28.424
Tom: You did not have to get the greatest thing to happen, arguably to Western culture ever, let alone game.
01:35:28.444 --> 01:35:31.644
Phil: I'm going to use a term that's probably only familiar to Australians.
01:35:31.664 --> 01:35:33.624
Phil: I'm going to say it was the sale of the century.
01:35:35.144 --> 01:35:35.984
Phil: Remember that show?
01:35:36.644 --> 01:35:37.344
Tom: Yes, I do.
01:35:37.364 --> 01:35:37.744
Phil: Lovely.
01:35:37.764 --> 01:35:39.004
Tom: And it absolutely was.
01:35:39.024 --> 01:35:40.184
Phil: It was the sale of the century.
01:35:40.304 --> 01:35:49.804
Tom: The last thing I'll say about Perfect Vermin is another thing a lot of people have compared it to is David Cronenberg.
01:35:49.824 --> 01:36:22.484
Tom: The similarities are obviously there, as you can tell from our impressions, but I would argue that this is actually a more fascinating and unsettling experience than David Cronenberg because due to the medium and also the smaller scale of the project, it is significantly more lyrical and does not get bogged down in a pulpy plot and idiotic characters.
01:36:24.244 --> 01:36:24.964
Phil: And it's fun.
01:36:27.684 --> 01:36:28.824
Tom: Cronenberg films are fun.
01:36:30.104 --> 01:36:30.504
Phil: All right.
01:36:31.044 --> 01:36:34.544
Phil: Well, with that, I think we can pretty much close out the show.
01:36:34.564 --> 01:36:37.784
Phil: And this is something that you want to bring to my attention.
01:36:38.124 --> 01:36:42.184
Tom: Well, Crono just reminded me of Cronocity.
01:36:42.904 --> 01:36:51.244
Tom: And in a show a few episodes ago, we mentioned The Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven Pinker.
01:36:53.064 --> 01:36:59.284
Tom: And I have actually now read The Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven Pinker.
01:36:59.944 --> 01:37:06.304
Tom: And in a year in which I've read, I think, 356.
01:37:06.704 --> 01:37:07.744
Phil: I thought you had given up on reading.
01:37:07.764 --> 01:37:08.344
Tom: I might be up to now.
01:37:08.404 --> 01:37:09.304
Phil: I thought you were giving up.
01:37:09.404 --> 01:37:09.684
Phil: No?
01:37:10.664 --> 01:37:13.704
Tom: I have to continue until the end of the year, unfortunately.
01:37:14.384 --> 01:37:16.004
Tom: After reading that, I wish I could.
01:37:16.324 --> 01:37:20.584
Tom: So you wouldn't want to end on reading The Better Angels of Our Nature, actually.
01:37:20.984 --> 01:37:26.064
Tom: But you mentioned Chronocity, and this would be a great example of that.
01:37:27.344 --> 01:37:31.864
Tom: This was literally the worst book I have ever read in my life.
01:37:32.404 --> 01:37:56.924
Tom: And bear in mind, the central thesis of the book is one which I previously agreed with until I read the book, which was basically that violence has reduced over the past several centuries, and obviously, since the Second World War, that has been one of the most peaceful times in human history.
01:37:57.844 --> 01:38:06.524
Tom: After reading that book, I realized that this assumption, this idea that I had, was not really based on very much evidence, based on the book.
01:38:06.884 --> 01:38:09.504
Tom: This is mind boggling.
01:38:09.604 --> 01:38:17.184
Tom: I have never read a book like this, and I have read Mein Kampf.
01:38:17.624 --> 01:38:24.044
Tom: Mein Kampf is more scholarly effective than the Better Angels of Our Nature.
01:38:25.344 --> 01:38:39.504
Tom: The use of evidence, if you have any basic knowledge of any field that is referenced, is the most idiotic cherry-picking you can come up with.
01:38:39.584 --> 01:38:54.624
Tom: Unlike a book like 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson, it doesn't misrepresent any of the evidence it uses, but it totally ignores and disregards evidence that is contrary to its viewpoint.
01:38:55.244 --> 01:39:04.144
Tom: And more insane than that is the type of evidence that it uses, and the total inconsistency with which it uses evidence.
01:39:04.164 --> 01:39:18.784
Tom: So at one point, he'll be talking about how violence was under-represented in the past due to poor record-keeping and bad statistics, and violence being so commonplace and everyday that no one really commented on it.
01:39:20.004 --> 01:39:29.144
Tom: The next minute, he'll be commenting on how violent art was from the past, and how this demonstrated how violent societies were.
01:39:29.324 --> 01:39:43.464
Tom: And if you apply this sort of thinking, you would conclude that Japan, as an example, was perhaps the most violent place on earth today, if you're basing it on the artwork that a place produces.
01:39:43.944 --> 01:39:59.804
Tom: And so essentially, he's rightly presenting that art is an idiotic vector for analyzing the violence of a society when it disagrees with his premise that whichever society today or the past is violent or isn't.
01:39:59.984 --> 01:40:06.504
Tom: Then in the next moment, he'll use literally identically the same thing to actually justify a point.
01:40:08.784 --> 01:40:21.544
Tom: Elsewhere, he is using simultaneously the Hobbesian political theory and the democratic peace theory, as if those two ideas are somehow compatible.
01:40:24.464 --> 01:40:31.084
Tom: Elsewhere, he will, and again, this other thing doesn't apply solely to him.
01:40:31.084 --> 01:40:47.424
Tom: It is a totally bizarre thing throughout all liberal history, but he highlights liberalism as contributing massively to things like the reduction in violence to children.
01:40:48.004 --> 01:41:07.844
Tom: And while he can reference some stuff about child rearing in the 1700s, such as Rousseau and so forth, even he has to go to the anti-enlightenment romantics to get anything like the modern conception of how children should be treated.
01:41:08.164 --> 01:41:32.984
Tom: And he kind of brushes over how liberal theory contributed to when the massive decrease in violence to children, as far as we can objectively measure it occurred, which was again after the Second World War, and beating your children started to become taboo as the fact that this actually caused serious injuries to your children began to become known.
01:41:33.924 --> 01:41:40.224
Tom: So it is just totally nonsensical from beginning to end.
01:41:40.564 --> 01:42:03.844
Tom: And again, I went into it with the same general thesis, not necessarily the same reasons for believing that to be true, but the evidence that he could muster up for it legitimately now makes me question whether I should believe that violence has reduced over the years because of how bad his evidence for it is.
01:42:04.004 --> 01:42:05.364
Tom: It's just unbelievable.
01:42:05.564 --> 01:42:35.144
Tom: And the other funny thing about it is, and this again isn't related to him, this is a standard intellectual failing of many people, and I don't suggest that I do not suffer from this at times either necessarily, but one of the wonderful things you can look out for when you're reading books by idiots like this is they will attack their enemies and then immediately after finishing attacking them, immediately do the same thing.
01:42:35.164 --> 01:43:02.984
Tom: So one great example of this was the nauseatingly disgusting description of Vietnam which followed on from a long treatise on how the rhetoric of revenge and self-pity and exaggerating the evil of the enemy while excusing your own evil as being caused by them encourages violence.
01:43:04.004 --> 01:43:05.244
Tom: That's all perfectly reasonable.
01:43:05.484 --> 01:43:29.484
Tom: He ends his Vietnam section with the statement that ultimately the Vietnamese were to blame because Ho Chi Minh stated that the Americans could never win because for every 10 Vietnamese people killed, one American would be killed, and eventually there will be no more Americans who would be able to be sent to Vietnam to be killed.
01:43:30.064 --> 01:43:44.104
Tom: So he ended this with pointing out that this attitude of being willing to defend yourself to that level when you're being attacked is why Vietnam was such a disaster.
01:43:44.464 --> 01:43:52.744
Tom: If Ho Chi Minh had only surrendered earlier, then several million Vietnamese people would not have been killed by the Americans.
01:43:53.024 --> 01:44:04.184
Phil: The guy's an idiot, and what's most disappointing about this is that Bill Gates considers this book, to quote Wikipedia, one of the most important books he's ever read when he was on Desert Island Discs.
01:44:05.344 --> 01:44:07.824
Phil: I've lost a lot of respect for Bill Gates over the years.
01:44:08.124 --> 01:44:09.524
Phil: I never really had that much respect.
01:44:09.544 --> 01:44:10.984
Phil: I think he's an idiot as well.
01:44:11.364 --> 01:44:14.484
Phil: But this dude does read a lot of books, and if he thinks this is the best book ever...
01:44:14.504 --> 01:44:16.724
Tom: I think he's certainly an idiot if he said that.
01:44:17.204 --> 01:44:20.504
Phil: He's an idiot, and this guy that wrote it is an idiot also.
01:44:20.524 --> 01:44:30.584
Phil: I'm sorry that you wasted your time reading this stupid book because he's such a trivial moron that he gets into forum wars with people that criticize his book.
01:44:32.244 --> 01:44:40.364
Phil: He got into this forum war with a writer from The New Yorker who criticized his book, and they went back and forth like six times.
01:44:40.444 --> 01:44:48.244
Phil: It's like, dude, you know, because of Bill Gates, it became a New York Times bestseller, as New York Times distinct from The New Yorker.
01:44:48.864 --> 01:44:50.444
Phil: Why do you care what The New Yorker says?
01:44:50.684 --> 01:44:58.664
Phil: If The New Yorker gave this video game podcast a negative review, I'd love it.
01:44:59.524 --> 01:45:00.504
Phil: I wouldn't get into it.
01:45:00.524 --> 01:45:02.624
Tom: Particularly given that it will be coming from The New Yorker.
01:45:02.824 --> 01:45:48.164
Phil: Oh, and I think that was it The New Yorker that listened to the giant bomb podcast or something, and they gave it a review because one of the critics over there, his son was listening to this podcast, like, dad, you got to listen to this, and they actually quoted Ryan MacDonald and Jeff Gershman when they were talking about how when you're using the knife in Condemned, and you can kind of just jab it into their neck and go, uh, uh, uh, you know, and so when Jeff Gershman is reading back what he actually said in a New Yorker article, it just comes off like the sickest fox that ever existed because they're talking about kill times, you know, time to kill.
01:45:48.624 --> 01:45:50.564
Phil: I mean, this is something that comes up in podcasts.
01:45:50.644 --> 01:45:53.444
Phil: Uh, well, I think the time to kill is a little bit off.
01:45:54.044 --> 01:45:58.624
Phil: And I've got to say, like, I've been listening to video game stuff for a long time.
01:45:59.324 --> 01:46:07.204
Phil: I don't think there's a single thing on this planet that is more dissected than video games on the Internet.
01:46:07.604 --> 01:46:14.144
Phil: Like, PlayStation does or doesn't release a press release about this, that or the other, and we're guilty of it ourselves.
01:46:14.164 --> 01:46:18.664
Phil: We're talking about, oh, why do you think they're not promoting the haptic feedback in the controllers?
01:46:18.964 --> 01:46:20.344
Phil: You know, we're guilty of it too.
01:46:20.764 --> 01:46:22.464
Phil: It's like, shah!
01:46:23.104 --> 01:46:24.544
Phil: It's video games!
01:46:25.564 --> 01:46:35.884
Phil: Anyway, I am really sorry that you read this stupid book by Steven Pinker, The Better Angels of Our Nature, Why Violence Has Declined, because it seems like a complete waste of your time.
01:46:36.184 --> 01:46:39.304
Phil: 832 pages, no less, released in 20...
01:46:39.324 --> 01:46:47.184
Tom: Well, when I finished it, I had the same sort of feeling you get of awe when you finish a great book.
01:46:48.164 --> 01:46:49.784
Tom: But it was awe, um...
01:46:51.024 --> 01:46:53.744
Tom: At how the fuck someone could be so stupid.
01:46:53.764 --> 01:46:54.224
Tom: And this...
01:46:55.404 --> 01:46:59.384
Tom: I don't even understand how something like this gets published, because presumably...
01:47:01.404 --> 01:47:03.684
Tom: There's an editor saying that this...
01:47:05.404 --> 01:47:06.224
Tom: I mean, it's a...
01:47:06.444 --> 01:47:08.864
Tom: At least pseudo-academic book.
01:47:09.544 --> 01:47:19.764
Tom: Surely there's an editor pointing out basic contradictions and how insane the evidence is that is being used.
01:47:20.564 --> 01:47:21.624
Phil: Well, Nietzsche...
01:47:21.644 --> 01:47:22.304
Phil: And I've got to say...
01:47:22.324 --> 01:47:22.844
Tom: Surely.
01:47:23.484 --> 01:47:25.064
Phil: One of the things he's criticised for...
01:47:25.504 --> 01:47:31.564
Phil: And I talk about chronocentrism, but Nietzsche actually fully developed the concept of perspectivism.
01:47:31.984 --> 01:47:32.804
Phil: I mean, have you...
01:47:33.204 --> 01:47:35.444
Phil: And that's basically what chronocentrism is.
01:47:35.464 --> 01:47:38.664
Phil: I think my expression for it is better, because it basically means...
01:47:38.884 --> 01:47:43.004
Tom: Well, no wonder you're anti-Steven Pinker if you're a postmodern Nietzsche.
01:47:43.764 --> 01:47:47.704
Tom: Well, you're just not smart enough to be a liberal.
01:47:47.724 --> 01:47:52.324
Tom: You do not have the brain structure, the superior liberal brain structure.
01:47:52.344 --> 01:47:52.844
Tom: I'm sorry.
01:47:54.944 --> 01:47:58.204
Phil: But like, I mean, this is the ultimate perspectivism.
01:47:58.464 --> 01:47:59.524
Phil: You know, this is.
01:47:59.544 --> 01:48:04.084
Phil: Oh, hey guys, we're not as violent as we used to be, you know.
01:48:04.104 --> 01:48:06.244
Phil: Have a look at these cave paintings.
01:48:06.244 --> 01:48:07.584
Phil: I mean, that's pretty violent.
01:48:07.864 --> 01:48:09.484
Phil: Okay, you know what?
01:48:09.504 --> 01:48:17.044
Phil: 45 minutes from their house, there's an abattoir that kills a cow every 36 seconds, 24 hours a day.
01:48:17.064 --> 01:48:17.724
Tom: Don't worry.
01:48:17.744 --> 01:48:19.004
Tom: No, no.
01:48:19.024 --> 01:48:19.804
Tom: Don't worry.
01:48:20.124 --> 01:48:23.904
Tom: He gets to animal cruelty and factory farming.
01:48:24.004 --> 01:48:52.804
Tom: And he points out that this is, in spite of factory farming and mass extinctions, on a scale not seen since the advent of homo sapiens, we are in the least cruel time in history to animals because, and we certainly are in terms of pets, but because even though factory farming exists, it's centuries old, which is a totally false statement.
01:48:53.064 --> 01:49:06.824
Tom: There's two eras that led to modern factory farming, and they're both in the 20th century, two major periods of innovation, I mean, and they're both in the 20th century, so that statement is just simply factually incorrect.
01:49:07.484 --> 01:49:21.144
Tom: And in spite of the incomprehensible to anything previously seen scale of factory farming, a very small percentage of the population are vegetarians, and vegetarians are very cool.
01:49:24.044 --> 01:49:25.304
Tom: That's a literal argument.
01:49:25.524 --> 01:49:28.604
Phil: And look, I'm not arguing that factory farming is cruel.
01:49:30.704 --> 01:49:32.404
Phil: I think that people need to get a grasp.
01:49:32.424 --> 01:49:33.544
Tom: It's certainly violent.
01:49:33.624 --> 01:49:34.404
Phil: But it's violent.
01:49:34.424 --> 01:49:39.564
Tom: His argument is that violence against animals is a historical law.
01:49:39.684 --> 01:49:42.584
Phil: And I don't think that abattoirs are cruel, okay?
01:49:42.604 --> 01:49:46.744
Phil: I'm just going to say that, but it is an act of violence, right?
01:49:46.824 --> 01:49:48.664
Phil: But that's just stupidity.
01:49:48.724 --> 01:49:53.344
Phil: Anyway, let's end the show so we can talk about some other stuff that I wouldn't want to put on the air.
01:49:53.844 --> 01:49:56.924
Phil: Thank you very much for listening to the episode.
01:49:57.444 --> 01:50:09.004
Tom: Reading stuff like this has given me a new found respect for the previous intellectual battered wife of the show, Ayn Rand.
01:50:09.864 --> 01:50:37.944
Tom: When you realize that this book is considered a profound statement and a serious work of academia that tells us new things we didn't know about how amazing we were, it makes you think that Ayn Rand's reputation in America as being a genuine philosopher is perhaps not so bad, and maybe we were a little harsh on her.
01:50:38.004 --> 01:50:38.704
Phil: I agree with that.
01:50:38.824 --> 01:50:39.964
Phil: I totally agree with that.
01:50:40.024 --> 01:50:44.704
Phil: Well, thank you everyone for listening to Episode 131 of The Game Under Podcast.
01:50:44.944 --> 01:50:48.684
Phil: I've been your co-host, and my name is Phil Fogg, and his name is...
01:50:49.564 --> 01:50:50.244
Tom: Tom Towers.
01:50:50.264 --> 01:50:50.644
Phil: Goodbye.