Game Under Episode 1

​Tom Towers and Phil Fogg move their act to a new stage.  This episode includes over an hour of discussion on Spec Ops: The Line (spoilers from 1:33:00 through 2:30:55) as well has hands-on impressions of Evoland, Zeno Clash, Serious Sam 3, Killzone, Bully and Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army.​

Stream Above or Download Directly Here (right-click then save as).​​

Also, please subscribe to our podcast using RSS by clicking here.​ or subscribe with iTunes here.

Download the EP featuring Sweet Billy Revolt here.​

​GAME IMPRESSIONS

3:31 Evoland impressions and talk about referencial humour and impersonation.

10:45 Zeno Clash and review processes at big websites.

27:15 Serious Sam 3 and how Phil would fix it.

40:45 Killzone 1 with some Yakuza talk.

51:00 Bully and soap opera talk.

1:05:45 Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army impressions.

FEATURE

1:17:25 Spec Ops: The Line in-depth discussion.

SPOILERS BEGIN AT 1:33:00 and end at 2:30:55

NEWS

2:30:55 GTA Tracks Now on Spotify and iTunes followed by discussion of favorite GTA songs.

2:36:40 Brain Training is Culturally Insensitive as are the Japanese.

2:39:23 Bioware Says Jade Empire Would Have Been Huge 360 Launch Game.

2:42:50 Oculus Rift and discussion of virtual reality.

2:46:12 PC Shipments Down and analysis.

2:51:15 Cancelled Mega Man FPS.

FEATURE 2

2:53:28 Square Enix Problems plus Bonus Material.

WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE VGPRESS.COM and LASERLEMMING.COM

3:00:50 Dvader's Backlog and his Gaming Malaise.

3:08:28 Discussion of the history of QTE's and Boss Battles from LaserLemming.com

3:23:08 Slave Billy Revolt adapted from an article at LaserLemming.com​

Transcript
Phil: Well, I received your ground rules earlier today for The Game Under Podcast, Tom, and let me just go over them here with you.

Phil: Number one was no editing out of racist or pedophilia jokes.

Phil: That was your number one.

Phil: Number two was you wanted a five-minute break every three minutes.

Tom: And that, bear in mind, that's come down from four minutes every two minutes.

Phil: Okay, I understand you're trying to meet me in the middle.

Phil: And then number three was you wanted long sections of static bows.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: A little background.

Phil: We're gonna skip four.

Phil: But number five I have a real problem with, which is no fake American accent.

Phil: Well, I don't even have a fake American accent.

Phil: I don't even have a real Australian accent.

Phil: Um, but, uh...

Tom: A fake Australian accent.

Phil: Look, look, mate.

Phil: I've received your grand rules.

Phil: I'm gonna draw a line in the sand here.

Phil: These are my grand rules moving forward.

Phil: Number one, no discussion of segues ever.

Tom: Can I just say that was quite a good segue from my grand rules to yours one?

Tom: To your grand rules.

Phil: Actually, you know what?

Phil: I gotta agree.

Phil: Also, um, you know, we've never talked about this before in the recording, so we'll just get out of the way before we start.

Phil: But my name is Phil.

Phil: Not Aspro, not Shane, nothing else.

Phil: I mean, my full name is Phileas, but my name is Phil Fogg and...

Tom: So your full name is Phileas and the Fogg is the name you've added on.

Tom: That's not your full name.

Phil: Fogg is my real last name.

Phil: Two Gs.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Also, I don't want to overly explain why this is not the press room, the official podcast or the VG press.

Phil: In fact, I don't want to explain it at all.

Phil: All I know is this is The Game Under Podcast with the internet sensation Tom Towers and Phil Fogg.

Tom: I don't actually know why it is not the press room podcast, so he couldn't explain it if he wanted to.

Phil: But this is The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Definitely.

Phil: And I hear we have a website.

Phil: Also, number four, just for today, no Wii U discussion.

Phil: I think this is something that is better left unspoken about for a few more months.

Tom: Neither of us have a Wii U anyway.

Phil: Yeah, what do we know?

Phil: Let's not talk about it.

Phil: Finally, I want a ball of red M&Ms in the green room before every show.

Tom: Which brings me back to rule four from my list, and that is that the M&Ms in the green room, as requested by Astro, must in fact be eaten by me and only me.

Phil: All right, you ready to do this podcast?

Tom: Yes, I am.

Phil: All right.

Tom: I thought we already were.

Phil: Well, here's the introduction.

Phil: Are you going to do the introduction or shall I?

Tom: I will.

Tom: I will.

Tom: Welcome to the first ever episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: And today we'll be talking in depth about Spec Ops The Line, Square Enix's sales expectations as well as our regular features, which we won't list because they're simply too numerous.

Tom: I am Tom Towers and I'm joined by the wonderful Phil Fogg.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: Phil Fogg.

Phil: We're not going to go into how I bought a microwave today that didn't work.

Phil: All my new headset, the Turtle Beach Air Force PLA, because we have such a big show.

Phil: I figured we'd just go straight into our video game impressions and what we've been playing.

Phil: I'm going to go with the most relevant game I've been playing.

Phil: I'm not really known for playing relevant games, but I got this game on Steam last weekend for like $

Phil: It was on sale.

Phil: It's called Evoland.

Phil: You heard this one?

Tom: Yes, I have.

Phil: So, Evoland is obviously an enneagram of...

Phil: Well, actually, it's not an enneagram at all.

Phil: But it's supposed to...

Phil: You know, you're supposed to look at the word and go, oh, Evolve, right?

Phil: And basically what this is, it's a meta game.

Tom: I think you'll find that when we were discussing this beforehand, I actually wrote Evoland as Evolve on Gchat.

Phil: As did I.

Phil: As did I.

Phil: And this is a meta kind of game.

Phil: Well, it is a meta game.

Phil: And it's much like Half Minute Hero or D...

Phil: What was that D one for the...

Phil: It was a PlayStation exclusive.

Tom: D Dot Game Heroes.

Phil: D Game Hero.

Phil: Half Minute Hero.

Phil: This is very much in the same vein in that it references Zelda very much and it also references Final Fantasy games.

Phil: And basically where the evolution comes into or the gimmick, if you will, is that the game starts out black and white and very pixelated.

Phil: And you can only move to the right.

Phil: So you move to the right until you find a chest, you open it up and then you unlock left.

Phil: And then you can move to the left.

Phil: And then you find a chest and then that unlocks up.

Phil: And then you can move up and so on and so forth.

Phil: And then eventually you find a chest that evolves you into -bit graphics and then -bit graphics, -bit graphics, DS graphics into the future.

Phil: So...

Tom: It obviously ends up looking better than Crysis

Phil: With all the settings on, even the lowest settings.

Phil: I mean, it's a very enjoyable game.

Phil: If you were to...

Phil: I mean, it mimics the source material like Zelda and Final Fantasy precisely.

Phil: And some people say that, you know, okay, well, it's just mimicking them.

Phil: That doesn't mean that they are them.

Phil: That doesn't mean this is a Final Fantasy game or a Zelda game.

Phil: But as far as I'm concerned, I mean, when you hear a good mimic or a good impersonator, the reason why...

Phil: I mean, why do people listen to celebrity impersonators, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Why do people listen to celebrity impersonators?

Tom: One, I would say, just to interrupt you there completely.

Tom: One, simply, most of them are making fun of them.

Tom: So, but we'll ignore that for the minute.

Tom: And the second one is, being a good mimic requires a great deal of skill.

Phil: Yes, it does.

Phil: Like, what's that guy's name?

Phil: Frank, what's his face, you know?

Tom: I don't know.

Phil: Well, he's an American guy, but...

Phil: Frank Catalanotto, right?

Phil: I think the point of humor in references, whether it be with a celebrity impersonator or a mimic, or in video games such as these, or, you know, Retro City Rampage, which I also played, but we're not specifically going to talk about this week.

Phil: It goes back to that old...

Tom: You've got to start on a platforming boss, by the way.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: But it all goes back to that Simpsons reference where everyone's laughing at a joke around Homer, and then Homer says, oh, joke, I get jokes, right?

Phil: And I think that's what impersonation humor is about.

Phil: It's basically like, oh, I get it.

Phil: That's a reference to something I know about.

Phil: See?

Phil: And it's not necessarily humorous.

Phil: It's just basically a reference.

Phil: And I don't know why that's amusing to people, except when you stereotype it or turn it up a notch.

Phil: And then you go, oh, yeah, Nixon did kind of sound like that.

Phil: That's funny, you know?

Phil: So basically where a reference, which is exemplified or amplified rather, brings new vision or new truth to the source material.

Phil: I think that's the value that it has.

Phil: So people will use words like derivative or clone or whatever, but I think games like Half Minute Hero and D Dot Heroes and Evoland, what they're actually doing is getting into why, a deeper understanding of why the source material was good.

Phil: And kind of like, you know, I'll read a review and then I'll summarize it in bullet point form.

Phil: Well, the bullet point form is actually in some ways better than the review because it's getting to the essence in a much shorter form than the source material.

Tom: That's simply because you're not Tom Towers.

Phil: Well, that's right.

Phil: I mean, if I could write long form articles like yourself, I would do so.

Phil: But I mean, I guess that's why people read things like Reader's Digest versions of large novels or the Cliffnote versions or, you know, the Dummies books.

Phil: But back to the game, I find it thoroughly enjoyable for the reasons that I've said.

Phil: It mimics the game's Final Fantasy and Zelda.

Phil: If you're familiar with the source material, you'll find it a joy.

Phil: It's short, it's fast moving.

Phil: It's a total kick to see the aesthetics evolve as you unlock things.

Phil: And it's not laugh out loud funny.

Phil: It's more like a low chuckle.

Phil: You know, when you unload, when you unlock better music or better graphics, it's kind of like, you know, but the thing is it drips it out at such a pace that you're never really bored or distracted.

Phil: So that's really it for Evoland.

Tom: I got a question about it.

Phil: Yeah, I thoroughly recommend it.

Phil: If you can find it for $like I did, just pick it up.

Phil: If you like Zelda or Final Fantasy or video game history, pick it up.

Phil: It's a fun game.

Tom: That does sound pretty good.

Tom: But my question is, so when these things evolve, and let's say specifically the graphics, how exactly does it happen?

Tom: Like, does it transfer to it slowly or...?

Phil: And then the screen will change from -bit to -bit.

Phil: And so a tree that before may have looked like an old-fashioned sprite will now be more fully realized.

Phil: And as you get deeper into the game, it will become D and things like that.

Phil: It's a really beautiful thing.

Phil: And you can basically check it out on YouTube and stuff like that to get the essence of it.

Phil: GameSpot, there's a good trailer for it.

Phil: Actually, the trailer is the best representation of what the game is about.

Tom: GameSpot didn't like it.

Tom: They gave it a

Phil: Yeah, that was Carolyn Pettit, though.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Once again, getting in there with a lower score.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Look at me!

Tom: Look at me!

Phil: Actually, I'm not going to make the three jokes that immediately came to mind, so let's just move on.

Phil: Do you want me to talk about my next game?

Tom: How about I move on to something?

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom: And we'll stick with the Indies, because I recently played through Xeno Clash, which is a first-person fighting game.

Tom: Are you all familiar with it?

Phil: Well, when you say first-person fighting game...

Phil: As in a beat-em-up?

Phil: Is it like Breakdown?

Phil: You know, that Namco game?

Phil: Where you're, like, in the first-person view and your fists are, you know, coming into the screen?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: I haven't played Breakdown, though, so I can't comment on the gameplay, but the gameplay is basically a slightly parred-down version of a proper beat-em-up in the vein of, say, Tekken or Street Fighter.

Tom: So there's a big focus on combos, blocking and all the sort of stuff you'd expect.

Tom: And it's actually really well done.

Tom: At first, when you start playing, it's really quite disorienting.

Tom: Oh, and another cool thing about it is, before each battle, it has, you know, lots of old D beat-ems-up before the battle.

Tom: They had a screen where they basically had the people involved in the battle, a picture of them stuck on the screen facing each other ready to fight, right?

Phil: Yep, yep.

Phil: They do that in Retro City Rampage pretty good.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: They basically do that here.

Tom: So you always, though not always, but most of the time know what you're coming up against and so the problem is though, while all the combos and whatnot are well designed and in theory you've got to use blocking or you're going to get your arse handed to you, right?

Tom: The problem is heavy attacks are completely overpowered.

Tom: So you can go into almost any battle and once you can have figured out how to time heavy attacks, you can basically just spam them and the enemies have got absolutely no chance against you.

Tom: This only does not apply though when you're in a battle with a lot of people because when you're in a battle with a lot of people, there will be people using ranged weapons as well.

Tom: So you've got to then consider who to attack first.

Tom: So I want to leave myself open to the weaker but still dangerous ranged attacks while taking out a Malega who's going to do more damage to me but I could possibly run away from or do I want to go and kill the ranged guy first.

Tom: So that kind of saves it from being a real ball where you're just spamming ranged attacks.

Tom: But a lot of the time it does pretty much feel like you're completely overpowered.

Phil: Okay, well again we're talking about Zeno Clash.

Phil: This is Zeno with a Z or Z, right?

Phil: Z-E-N-O Clash.

Phil: And this is developed by a Chilean team.

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Which I don't think I've ever heard of a video game coming out of Chile before.

Phil: Are you playing the PC version or the version?

Phil: The PC version.

Phil: Okay, so how do the combos work on...

Phil: Well, before we get on to the combos, you say like when I'm playing Sleeping Dogs or Yakuza or whatever, right?

Phil: And you're involved in a rumble, right?

Phil: It's a typical beat-em-up type situation.

Phil: You're going to have guys with a baseball bat or a knife, right?

Phil: And then you're going to have little edgelings or whatever you want to call them, that are fodder.

Phil: So like ordinarily, I will go after the guys with the weapons first to get them out of the way while they still have plenty of health and then go after the fledglings, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So is that what you're doing in Xenoclash?

Phil: Is that what you were just describing?

Tom: No, because the people with ranged weapons are still fully fledged normal combatants.

Tom: And on top of that, if you go and attack them, which is another element to the strategy, if you go and attack them, you can knock the weapon out of their hands.

Tom: So what you can do is you concentrate on killing the people that are going to be focusing mainly on melee attacks while also watching these weapon people out of the corner of your eye and going over and knocking the weapons out of their hands.

Tom: But there are in fact fodder enemies.

Tom: The enemies are describing what people are.

Tom: But also going around the levels mainly as kind of interludes between the bigger battles.

Tom: You do come across animals to shoot.

Tom: And the less said about the shooting mechanics, the better.

Tom: It's really lightweight and just feels kind of pointless.

Phil: Well, what are you actually shooting?

Phil: What weapon do you have?

Tom: Well, there's stuff like crossbows, shotguns and puffer fish pistols.

Phil: Miniguns?

Tom: No miniguns.

Phil: Puffer fish pistols?

Phil: They shoot puffer fish?

Tom: They're puffer fish, presumably dead puffer fish, faceted into the shape of a pistol that shoot pallets out of their mouth.

Phil: This is lame.

Phil: Lame.

Phil: I mean, like how many years ago did Armed and Dangerous come out with a shark gun?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You know, the rocket launcher that shoots sharks.

Phil: And they're just using the puffer fish?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Well, on the keyboard, though, how do you do combos on a PC game in a fighting game?

Tom: So, left mouse button is basically your normal or weaker attacks.

Phil: Left is weak.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And right is strong.

Tom: So, that might sound quite simple.

Tom: But then, of course, you've got the most basic way to do a combo, which is multiple taps of the one button.

Tom: But it does go deeper than that because coming into it is you can then combine, say, multiple attacks within a block attack, which performs a different attack to then if you were just to tap left mouse button.

Tom: And also, you can combine block attacks, multiple tap attacks and dodge attacks.

Tom: So, block, sorry, so space bar acts as your block button.

Tom: And also, if you apply movement at the same time as blocking, then you do a dodge.

Tom: So, they may actually make it work really well on keyboard.

Tom: Except for one mechanic, which is the lock-on, which is just absolutely horrendous.

Tom: And I'm not sure if I was accidentally pressing E, which performs lock-on, which I'm % sure I wasn't, but it randomly locks on to enemies, which then completely stuffs up the combo you were attempting to perform.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Wow.

Tom: So, at the base, it's a really good system, but it's not executed all that well.

Tom: The other thing about it, which is quite quick, I'd just like to say the...

Tom: it looks very much like a...

Tom: let's say a documentary version of Morrowind.

Tom: So it's not populated by actors and actresses.

Tom: The characters involved have gotten moles and acne and all sorts of good stuff that you'd expect to find on actual people.

Phil: So they don't have a clean faces mod for this game yet?

Tom: No.

Phil: No, it's a shame.

Tom: And I assume it was influenced by Morrowind because it just looks so much like a dirty version of Morrowind.

Tom: And it was originally an RPG, so perhaps it was.

Tom: Wait, wait, wait.

Phil: This game, ZenoKled, for the PC and it was an RPG before it was...

Tom: It was originally an RPG called Zerodnik or something, which is the name of the world it is set in.

Tom: And the sequel, which is coming out next month in May, has apparently RPG elements to it.

Phil: Maybe they should call up Kurt Schilling to put this whole thing together for them, you know?

Tom: Well, yeah.

Tom: Well, as I was saying, it looks great.

Phil: It just sounds like...

Phil: Alright, well, yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: It sounds like what, sorry?

Phil: It just sounds like a complete cluster, because they turned an RPG into like, oh, our fighting...

Phil: Our fighting engineer is pretty good.

Phil: Let's just make it a brawler.

Tom: Well, it works quite well.

Phil: And after we've built up the rich world of Xenoclash, that's when we'll come back and make the RPG of our dreams.

Tom: That's right.

Phil: The only thing they could do to top this would be to make it an MMO that requires a monthly subscription.

Tom: That'll be Xenoclash

Phil: Yep.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So the last thing about it, though, is...

Tom: which is the biggest load of crap.

Tom: And I'm going to go into spoilers here.

Tom: You can add a spoiler warning here.

Tom: Because no one really cares.

Tom: So there's no point in...

Phil: No one's going to play.

Tom: The story, which is quite interesting and reasonably well done overall, is basically, you're the child of a seemingly hermaphrodite bird creature.

Tom: And it starts off with you killing it.

Tom: And then, from that point on, slowly, through exposition, explains why you killed it.

Tom: And this bird creature basically was, first of all, not a hermaphrodite.

Tom: It's a male, so it's been going around kidnapping babies of people and raising them as its own.

Phil: You know, that's not really unreasonable because most god mythos is, you know, god is without gender.

Phil: And if god is without gender, then it can...

Tom: A huge amount of mythos relate to gods as well.

Phil: Keep going.

Tom: So anyway, so, then at some stage through the story, you meet this Frankenstein, lycra wearing god type person who's all knowing.

Tom: And I just cannot understand why they're even there because they make absolutely no sense within the context of the story.

Tom: They go along, spouting all this philosophical bullshit and then at the end, which could have been a really good end, basically, you find out Father Mother isn't dead.

Phil: Father Mother.

Tom: That's the name of her Maphrodite parent.

Tom: And so you've got to fight them again.

Tom: After defeating them, the question is, are you going to kill them or reveal their secret to their children that they're all adopted slash kidnapped?

Tom: And so the main character decides, no, I'm not going to, which is perfectly fitting with the character.

Tom: Then this all-knowing asshole says, oh, wait a minute, fuck you, I don't care what you want to do.

Tom: By the way, you're not the real children of this person who kidnapped you all.

Tom: The end.

Tom: It's just part of stupidity.

Tom: I just cannot comprehend it.

Tom: The only possible explanation is, they kind of go on about the broader world that is involved in the game, maybe just setting it up for the sequel and pointing out, yes, this was meant to be a broader RPG.

Tom: Yeah, you're just stunned.

Phil: I am stunned.

Phil: I don't know if it's Frankenstein, Frankenstein.

Phil: I don't know why you even played this game to completion.

Phil: You've got so many other games to play.

Phil: I mean, there had to be something compelling pushing you forward.

Tom: I actually did enjoy it a great deal, I have to say.

Tom: Because while the combat is really impossible to describe as sounding like it's going to be good, but when you actually play it and get used to it, it is an enjoyable system, albeit a flawed one.

Tom: And personally, I enjoyed the art style and the story up until that point.

Phil: Yeah, this is basically using Valve's Source engine.

Phil: And I saw some of the images.

Phil: They're most distasteful and like the confusing story, I think this has to do with something about the Chilean culture.

Phil: What is distasteful about it?

Phil: Something not translating.

Phil: Well, the detail...

Tom: You don't like the anuses.

Phil: The detail, the attention to detail in regard to rectums...

Tom: Well, first of all, I'd just like to point out this.

Tom: Presumably it is not in fact a rectum because all the creatures in the vault only appear to have one waste plate of gold.

Tom: So it's got to be some sort of descent in the vein of chicken anatomy.

Phil: No.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: It doesn't...

Phil: I don't need that in my video games.

Phil: Maybe in Chile they do.

Phil: Chicken vent?

Tom: You working on farms should surely be well-versed in the anatomy of animals.

Phil: I don't have...

Phil: Oh, I am.

Phil: I am.

Phil: But I don't have any chickens.

Phil: I don't know anything about chickens.

Tom: Well, don't like many birds have one hole for waste and various other purposes.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Birds only have one hole for waste, which is...

Phil: Oh, I'm not going to go into this.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Are we done with Xenoclast?

Tom: Yes, I think we are.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: And I might add, you played it to completion.

Phil: Why did you not write a review for laserlemon.com?

Tom: Well, it was just a random game I was playing, so...

Phil: Okay.

Tom: However, you'll be pleased to know that if I can get a review copy of Xenoclast I will in fact be writing a review.

Phil: Did you hear that, Ace Team?

Phil: You know...

Tom: Listen, Ace Team, I even defended the game from my co-host.

Phil: I think he gave it a pretty favorable review there.

Phil: So send them an email, carry up a free copy of their RPG.

Phil: I was listening to GameSpot's podcast the other day and they were talking about why they didn't review Hyper Neptunia, right?

Phil: And they said basically it comes down to this.

Phil: This is GameSpot, which is...

Phil: I have to assume still the number video game website in the world, right?

Tom: You'd assume so.

Tom: Even if it might not look like it.

Phil: I'm sure there's a bigger one in Portuguese in Brazil.

Phil: This is what the reviews editor said.

Phil: He said that we don't have enough staff to review the games, so we would have given this to a freelancer, right?

Phil: The review of Hyper Neptunia, which we talked about in previous episodes of the Press Room podcast, available at thebgpress.com.

Phil: And he said we would have given that to a freelancer because it's the kind of game we'd give to a freelancer, which means a kind of game that none of us would be able to appreciate, right?

Phil: But he said it's too long of a game, and by the time a freelancer finishes the game, because they have the policy that you've got to finish the game before you can review it, it would no longer be relevant, and mostly because anyone who's going to buy Hyper Neptunia would have already bought the game prior to us coming out with our late review of the game.

Tom: I have a small question about that.

Tom: First of all, when would they have ever considered Hyper Dimension Neptunia relevant?

Phil: When would they consider relevant?

Tom: In terms of their hits, I mean, it's a very niche game.

Phil: Well, that's what they're saying, and they mention that as well, frankly.

Phil: They said that, you know, in regard to the amount of traffic that it will generate, I mean, that's what they're talking about.

Phil: I mean, if you come out with a review for, you know, Metal Gear Solid or Metal Gear Solid ..

Phil: Metal Gear Solid

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Five weeks after it's come out, people will still read it because it's like, oh, okay, well, what did they have to say about the game?

Phil: I just thought it was a sad indictment in terms of that website's number of staff and their resources that they're having to draw such fine lines as to what they review and what they don't review.

Phil: I mean, there was a time where they reviewed every game that came out.

Phil: Such was their resources.

Tom: Can I say, was this in terms of the sequel to all the original?

Phil: Well, it was just, it was about the most recent game.

Phil: But it was talking about, it doesn't really matter.

Phil: It was talking about the franchise as a whole.

Tom: Well, it does matter because as far as I'm aware, the first one was a lot longer than the second because that really sounds like a pretty huge cop out.

Tom: I mean, the second, you could easily, especially if you're playing it simply as a reviewer, you could knock that over in well under hours, no doubt.

Phil: Well, that's an even bigger problem is that they didn't even take the time to, like the reviews edited, didn't even take the time to see how long the game was.

Phil: I mean, they could have asked Atlas.

Phil: And Atlas would have said, you know, this is the length of the game or whatever.

Phil: So, well, one game that was equally shunned by the reviewing community was Serious Sam when it was released.

Phil: Predominantly, I guess, because it was a PC exclusive for a great deal of time.

Phil: Now, I know that...

Tom: Has it been forwarded to consoles?

Phil: I believe so.

Phil: You can check that out.

Phil: Now, I know that you played it while you looked that up because you gifted this to me.

Phil: And I appreciate it.

Tom: It has a downloadable title, I think.

Phil: And it wasn't a...

Phil: I'm playing the PC version, obviously, on Steam.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And, yeah, it was released as a downloadable.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: And I did not play the first one, for whatever reason.

Phil: I got the second one for $for the original Xbox.

Phil: And I beat it last year.

Phil: And it was not a good game.

Phil: What was wrong with it?

Phil: Well, it was basically hold down the trigger the entire time and run backwards, shooting your enemies.

Phil: Now, I played it to its completion.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And like GoldenEye, it had a ridiculous platforming level at the very end.

Phil: It was a platforming level, in fact, that was in the sky.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So it was like the worst possible thing.

Phil: First-person games should never have platforming levels.

Phil: And I've been rebuked and told, well, Mirror's Edge, well, of course Mirror's Edge is the exception.

Phil: Which I've never played, don't give a shit about.

Phil: So, but that was only the final level.

Phil: That's what made it actually worse is because at the very end, they introduced all of these new elements.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Which basically just cut to a very minor spoiler in Serious Sam

Phil: The very final boss, they introduced a jet pack, for Christ's sake.

Phil: Which is awesome.

Phil: But just to finish up my mini summary of Serious Sam it was just a boring game.

Phil: Basically, you just pull the trigger and kill everything that comes at you.

Phil: Serious Sam I never would have bought on the basis of my experience with Serious Sam

Phil: So I'm glad that you gave it to me, because it's a wonderful game.

Phil: I would give it probably a out of up from an because it provides the kind of Twitch gaming that hasn't been seen since Doom

Phil: This is Doom HD.

Phil: Make no mistake about it.

Phil: This is about throwing a bunch of ridiculous enemies, so enemies that have no heads, enemies that have bombs as hands, that scream as they come towards you.

Tom: And also have no head.

Phil: Arachnid creatures that have miniguns as hands.

Tom: Naked flying women?

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yes, very bushy naked flying women.

Phil: And again, this might be a cultural thing.

Phil: I know Serious Sam is made somewhere in Eastern Europe.

Phil: Eastern Europe, they probably call it.

Phil: They actually probably don't even call it that.

Phil: That's probably an insult.

Phil: But you know, one of those Slavic lands.

Tom: Even the Czech Republic to be exact.

Phil: I think I'm digging a hole deep here.

Phil: I don't know, it's probably politically...

Tom: The title was...

Tom: I'm sorry.

Tom: The location is reviewed in title, Crotea in Croatia, of course.

Tom: Oh, of course.

Phil: Yes, the Croats.

Phil: And that's probably racist too.

Phil: I don't even know what I'm saying.

Phil: The Croats.

Phil: Look, this game, Serious Sam if you have a PC, you have to play it, if you like Doom, if you like the original Doom, which is basically see the enemy, shoot the enemy.

Phil: The AI is smarter than the days of Doom, of course.

Phil: The graphics are beautiful.

Phil: Much better than any of the current consoles could provide.

Phil: Those particle effects.

Phil: It's a great game.

Phil: The audio on this game is amazing.

Phil: The music is neither here nor there.

Phil: It doesn't detract.

Phil: It certainly doesn't get as bad as you're like, what am I listening to?

Phil: I know Game Informer particularly liked the heavy metal aspects of it.

Phil: I didn't find any of the music particularly heavy metal.

Phil: So I was expecting a lot of running backward and shooting forward, which is what you get in this game.

Phil: There's lots of strafing, lots of running backwards, lots of shooting forwards, lots of crazy enemies, lots of large arenas full of literally hundreds of enemies running at you.

Phil: Just gore beyond belief.

Phil: Wonderful weapons.

Phil: It's great to have a shooter where guns are slowly given to you over the course of the game, just like in the old days where you start out with a pea shooter and you work your way up to things even more extreme than rocket launches.

Phil: It is a hard game.

Phil: Also, even on normal, this is a very difficult game.

Phil: You might disregard or you might disagree, but I found it difficult in reading up the reviews of this because I don't intend to review it myself.

Phil: Most people said this was a pretty difficult game.

Tom: Yep, I'd agree.

Tom: I can't remember if I played on hard or normal.

Tom: I think hard, but not % sure, but it definitely felt like whatever the difficulty should have been as opposed to as is often the case where it feels like the lower level difficulty than it actually is.

Phil: Right, right, right.

Tom: Which qualifies as a hard game these days.

Phil: Right, and then you've got to fiddle around until you find the difficulty that's right for you, right?

Tom: I think the difficulty levels are so well done.

Tom: You can basically pick however you want to play the game and still enjoy it.

Tom: So if you wanted to just go completely crazy on easy and just mow through everything, it would still be probably quite an enjoyable experience.

Phil: Well, I must admit, for a couple levels there, I did dip down to easy, and it was just as enjoyable.

Phil: It just meant less repetition.

Phil: And that's one of the doom elements that is in this game.

Phil: One of the great things about doom, which I've talked about in prior podcasts, is the repetition, right?

Phil: Okay, I'm coming into this room.

Phil: I know where all the enemies are going to be.

Phil: How am I going to do it this time as opposed to last time?

Phil: And then, you know, you've done something wrong four times in a row and you slap yourself and you're like, okay, idiot, let's try something different.

Phil: And that may or may not work.

Phil: Or you might leave it and then come back the next day and it works the first time.

Phil: My only problem with this game, which probably would detract from that nine, now that I think about it, maybe get it down to even an eight, there's basically two settings in this game.

Phil: The first is the beautiful and sublime outdoor Egypt Middle East setting, which is wonderful.

Phil: And the second is basically the bad side of Doom.

Phil: Well, actually there are no bad sides of Doom, but basically a corridor shooter.

Phil: And they put you into these tombs from time to time where you have to solve puzzles of a very rudimentary basis.

Phil: The most difficult thing about the puzzles is actually your orientation or seeing where you are because it's so dark.

Phil: And they really drag down the game.

Phil: I got bogged down three, four different levels.

Phil: And they throw these at you regularly.

Phil: I can see why they saw the need to change it up from the regular.

Phil: But seriously, they had those jet pack physics in the game.

Phil: I would have preferred if they needed a change up to throw in some air-based missions.

Phil: Maybe two or three throughout the game would have been enough because the open world or the open levels, the on-ground levels, the non-underground levels, were so enjoyable that you didn't really need a break from them.

Phil: Maybe two or three of those jet pack missions just would have pushed this game over the edge.

Phil: As it is, it just bogged it down terribly.

Phil: I've got to think that it was someone at Crow Team who was high up enough that people didn't question or challenge because anyone playing this game would just get to those levels and go, what?

Phil: There's no map.

Phil: I mean, I don't need a map necessarily in most games.

Phil: There's no radar.

Phil: What is useful is if you're playing multiplayer, they will at least put up an indicator as to where the other partner is and how far away they are.

Phil: And maybe what they could have done if this was...

Phil: Maybe what they could have done is if you've been walking around aimlessly in a level for minutes, maybe they put up the option and said, would you like nav support?

Phil: Or even have the character come through your headset who's talking to you throughout the whole game and say, hey, we've just opened up nav support for this level, for where you are, would you like us to help you out?

Phil: Yes, no.

Phil: So if you still want to flail around in the dark and do it yourself, you're fine.

Phil: But otherwise, they'd put up basically a marker until you get to the next point and then take it away.

Phil: The voice could come in and say, oh, we're getting interference from a sandstorm.

Phil: Sorry, nav support is dropping out now.

Phil: And then you try again and if you get lost for another minutes, they can say, hey, we're back up.

Phil: I think something small like that really would have pushed this game to the next level.

Phil: But all in all, thoroughly recommendable if you have a PC.

Phil: It's just a brilliant game, particularly if you have a great friend who can give it to you for free.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: There's just two things I'd say about the pyramid things.

Tom: There's literally two moments that I can remember that were at all enjoyable.

Tom: And that was when you first went into one of them.

Tom: It was quite a good contrast.

Tom: Now, the first one, as far as I can remember, didn't have too much of a confusing layout.

Tom: You can correct me on that if I'm wrong as you played it more recently than me.

Phil: No, you are correct.

Phil: It was the second level.

Phil: So they take you out of basically an urban Middle East setting.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And then in the second level, they drop you into a semi-open world dungeon.

Phil: So basically, it's a maze, but it's a multi-story building through which sunlight can't appear from time to time.

Phil: So it doesn't feel as claustrophobic as the later levels.

Phil: It's more like a large castle, if you will.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: So what I was thinking was, and that wasn't the part that I was referring to exactly, but I was actually about to go on to that part, which was why not in fact, instead of most of the pyramid areas, include indoor areas more in the vein of that, if they wanted a more easy and simple way to change up the pace?

Phil: Right.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Right.

Phil: Or even go the urban route, since the Middle East is such a hot region these days, is have a building, you know, a -story building from the s kind of thing.

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

Phil: And not just have it be, you know, I can see where they may be trying to set it up as a timeless type thing.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, the thing about that is, I mean, you get to see the pyramids and lots of Egyptian statues and whatnot anyway, so there's not really any need to force you into these levels.

Tom: You still get that anyway.

Tom: Now, the one thing I would like to say is there was one moment which was just absolutely hilarious in one of the latter pyramids.

Tom: I can't remember which it was exactly, but you end up in this giant room and you can hear millions of enemies around you.

Tom: And when you get to a certain point, it triggers them all sprinting towards you, like literally hundreds of them, more in a confined space than you ever come across.

Tom: And that is such an awesome moment because once you realize what the hell is happening and you get slaughtered by this massive wave of enemies, there's huge, unlimited amounts of Ceverywhere.

Tom: So you then realize, oh, wait a minute, I've got to literally cover the entire section with C

Tom: So they trigger the enemies and it's this absolutely humongous explosion and hundreds of enemies dying all at once, which is just absolutely hilariously awesome.

Phil: Yeah, that is also what harkened back to the very best levels of Doom.

Phil: And when it comes back to Doom, beyond the visceral nature of it, if you will, it was the levels.

Phil: It was the levels that made that game.

Phil: The very clever levels where they were very limited.

Phil: And when I got to that level where we were using the Cto blow up walls or blow up enemies or whatever, it was great.

Phil: Probably enough on Serious Sam

Tom: Definitely.

Phil: You've been playing another pretty mainstream type of game.

Tom: Yes, and it's also a game with exceptional sound design, and that is Killzone, the original Killzone for the PS

Tom: And just a couple of small points on this.

Tom: I won't go into the gameplay too much because the level design is just so incredibly bland.

Phil: Oh, no, no, no, please do.

Phil: I mean, let's talk about the gameplay for a few minutes here.

Tom: Yeah, well, it's the opposite of Serious Sam.

Tom: It's incredibly slow-paced.

Tom: It's basically fatagic.

Tom: What happens is you walk from firefight to firefight, and the vast majority of these firefights consists of you simply finding a thing to sort of hide about or stay near the entrance of the firefight so when you get low on health you can run out, crouch in the corner and heal yourself, while the AI, which is generally completely passive, stands around shouting about you.

Tom: Then you carefully sneak out and shoot them in the face, just stand out in the open, shooting them for five or so seconds until they're dead.

Tom: It's still enjoyable, and I will say this, they actually do kind of mix it up a little by introducing different characters throughout the campaign that have different skills.

Tom: So, for example, I just got up to a character that has night vision and a submachine gun, which is very good for headshots.

Tom: So they do change it up, but at its core it's very, very, very bland gameplay.

Tom: But The Bells and the Whistles, some of them anyway, are exceptional.

Tom: It actually, it's one of the few PSgames that looks better in to than it does in to

Phil: I can tell you from personal experience that is the case.

Tom: The trouble is that half the time...

Phil: The frame rate is terrible though.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: You get huge knock to the frame rate in to and the frame rate is terrible on to anyway.

Phil: Yes it is.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But, and on top of that, the graphics, okay, some parts look absolutely great.

Tom: The character models, when the textures on them actually load, look like really, really bad slash PSearly character models, right?

Phil: Yeah, they're chunky.

Tom: They look sculpted.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: They look really good.

Tom: That's when the textures load, and % of the time they don't.

Tom: And the draw distance, you can't even say the draw distance is atrocious.

Tom: Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not, and textures pop in and out.

Tom: It's just an incredible mess.

Tom: But the sound design is absolutely exceptional.

Tom: Even on my crap-dying, literally dying television speakers, I've still got a good sense of where enemies are and all that sort of thing.

Tom: I was really surprised by it when coming back to it.

Phil: Because of PlayStation ?

Tom: Yeah, I haven't played a PSgame that has attempted to surround sound as well as this.

Tom: Well, at least attempted to surround sound just onto channels anywhere near as well as this.

Phil: You know a game from that generation did also have excellent sound design.

Phil: That was Black on the Xbox.

Tom: Another phone-sensing shooter?

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: I don't know if it...

Phil: That was an Xbox exclusive, I'm pretty sure.

Tom: But I think it may have got caught into PS

Phil: Yeah, I'm not sure the PSwould have really handled it.

Phil: I mean, it was a pretty challenging game in terms of its graphic design.

Tom: Yeah, it could have been a crap port, of course.

Tom: You must consider...

Phil: Let's say...

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Well, let's say you own, like, Guerrilla Games, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And are they fully owned by Sony at this point, or are they one of the, like, Naughty Dog type...

Phil: Oh, yeah, they were bought out by Sony.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Never mind, yeah.

Phil: I had no idea that they developed Shellshock NAM-

Tom: Did they?

Phil: In fact, it's the only non-Killzone game they've ever developed.

Tom: So they've slowly improved.

Phil: And get this, the year that Shellshock NAM-was released, that's the year that Killzone came out.

Phil: This is baffling to me that Sony would look at Shellshock NAM-and go, you know what, you guys got what it takes.

Phil: We don't have many first-person shooters over here on the PlayStation.

Phil: How about we buy you and you make nothing but the same game for the next six games?

Tom: Well, that will ride in the end because Killzone is in fact a huge franchise.

Tom: Yeah, but is it though?

Phil: I mean, is it?

Tom: It sells well, doesn't it?

Phil: Does it?

Phil: I don't know that it sells that well.

Tom: Can you remember back to any RPG numbers that featured it?

Phil: No, sir, I cannot.

Tom: Because now that you mention that, nor can I.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: This is all a myth propagated by Sony.

Phil: I'm an em...

Phil: no, generator.

Phil: Did I tell you about the M&Ms?

Tom: Yes, you did.

Phil: That was my only other M.

Tom: The last two points on Killzone is...

Phil: No, you only have one more point and then we have to talk about Yakuza.

Tom: I'm doing two very quick ones.

Phil: Very quick.

Tom: The first one is...

Tom: The guns in this are so much better than either Killzone or

Tom: And I'm going to illustrate this point with one very, very simple example and that is that the Helghan assault rifle, just the normal generic Helghan assault rifle that basically all the grunt enemies have, has a fucking secondary, fully blown, powerful, shotgun feature.

Phil: Oh, a shotgun?

Phil: Oh yeah, you're right.

Phil: You're right.

Phil: I remember now.

Tom: That is just awesome.

Phil: The human characters in these games, I forget, do they have like, are they traditional weapons or are they fictitious weapons?

Phil: Like you have an M

Phil: Okay, totally fictional.

Phil: No, traditional.

Tom: I think in they've got some sort of beam based weapon, but I don't remember that in or the original.

Tom: And now the final point is, you can really see that this game wanted so, so much to be Halo.

Tom: There's parts in it that just look % ripped off from Halo.

Phil: Like what?

Tom: Early on when you're evacuating the base, right?

Tom: Do you remember that section?

Phil: Not particularly.

Tom: Okay, well, evacuating this base, you're going through these corridors, so that doesn't look like Halo.

Tom: Then you get to these round sort of areas, circular areas that lead down, and there's some ladders there.

Tom: They are straight out of a Halo spaceship.

Tom: Okay, Halo looks kind of generic anyway, but there's just something about it that makes so much like Halo, more than you would expect from generic spaceship areas.

Tom: So it's interesting seeing the evolution to Killzone where they really develop their own look and own sort of feel and aesthetic to the game.

Phil: That's true.

Phil: Yeah, well, Halo, you're quite right.

Phil: Halo is purple and Killzone is orange.

Tom: Yeah, and that just reminded me of a final point that I'm ending on.

Tom: A third point?

Tom: Seriously, there is a glitch here.

Tom: Whenever I try to climb down a ladder, at least the first five times, it automatically climbs back onto where I was standing.

Tom: What the fuck is that?

Phil: That's where I start playing Killzone.

Phil: The first time you have to climb up a water tanker.

Phil: You get on it and then you go back down it.

Phil: Then you get on it and you go back down it.

Phil: Then you get on it and you go back down it.

Phil: When you eventually get to the top, they give you an impossible sniper mission.

Phil: I loved the opening of it.

Phil: It was very Private Ryan-ish in the bunkers and everything.

Tom: And that was great at the time.

Phil: It was so good in the sound design and everything else.

Phil: But then you have the most broken game development aspects.

Tom: And that fucking sniper rifle, the controls for that are just...

Tom: Why would they even consider making it like that?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: Before we go on to Bully, I do want to talk about Yakuza.

Phil: Just a couple of minutes here in our Killzone Yakuza section.

Phil: Patented.

Phil: Do you think Five is going to come to the West?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: I have faith.

Phil: The failure of aliens...

Phil: They said that all they are doing are Sonic, Total War, Aliens and one other game.

Phil: There were four things that they were doing.

Phil: Sonic, Total War, Aliens and one game I can't remember.

Phil: I think it was totally casual.

Phil: They have said that.

Phil: They said those are the only games we are going to bring to the West anymore.

Tom: Well, here is the thing.

Tom: I think it is too early to take that as meaning they are not going to do Yakuza because we wouldn't be expecting to see it for a while yet.

Tom: To me, I think we are going to see it eventually but perhaps even later than expected.

Phil: Here is what I think.

Tom: It might be blind hopefulness though.

Phil: I think, here is my blind hopefulness, they have to do something.

Phil: The western arm of Sega, they have to do something.

Phil: If it is just coming down to Sonic and Total War, then that is kind of sad.

Phil: I remember the letter writing campaign I led for Yakuza to come to the west.

Phil: We tried to do it, it failed and eventually we got it.

Phil: That is all thanks to you that we got it.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Basically my argument to them was, as I stated at the time, listen, guys, bring it over with the Japanese voices.

Phil: We don't care.

Phil: Include the English subtitles and we will play these games.

Phil: Guess what?

Phil: That has been the way it has been.

Phil: It has worked fine.

Tom: We want to thank you for bringing it here.

Tom: We also want to thank you for the far superior Japanese audio.

Phil: You can basically thank Phil Fogg by going to our new website gameunder.net and that will be thanks enough.

Phil: I'm single-handedly responsible.

Tom: What's the maker donation?

Phil: Yeah, well, we haven't got that up yet.

Phil: The website does have costs.

Phil: On to Bully.

Phil: I've been playing Bully on the PlayStation

Phil: We'll talk about Dvader's game backloggery later.

Phil: The reason why I'm playing Bully is because a co-member of the VG Press and respected host of the VG Press...

Tom: The Pressing Podcast.

Phil: The Pressing Podcast, I assume we forget.

Phil: He played it and I was like, all right, you know what, I'm going to play it because this is the last time Bully is going to be relevant to anyone I know, right?

Phil: So before I go into my impressions of the game, I was looking up, like, okay, where does Bully fall in to the lineage of Rockstar games?

Phil: So let's just start with the PlayStation era and we're ignoring games like, what was that one, the racing, we're ignoring their racing games, right?

Tom: They were awesome, though.

Phil: They had the Midnight Racing games.

Tom: They did State of Emergency as well.

Phil: They did State of Emergency, which we're also ignoring.

Phil: We could have a whole podcast on State of Emergency later.

Phil: Anyway, GTA was made by North and Vienna, right?

Phil: Vice City came out the next year, in and I remember that going, how on earth did they do that, right?

Phil: How did they do that?

Phil: I think it's because GTA was in the can, like done and finished, for probably a year before they released it, and Take was like, are we going to do it?

Phil: Are we not going to do it?

Phil: -happened.

Phil: Remember, it was going to launch on -which was a Tuesday, and then, you know, it got pushed out and on and on.

Phil: And then Vice City came up, and basically they were able to do it because probably they had been working on it for two years.

Phil: And it's made by Rockstar North and Rockstar Vienna.

Phil: And Vienna was closed in

Phil: We never heard any more of them, so that's kind of interesting.

Phil: The next year...

Tom: Do we know what the staff might have gone through other sections of Rockstar?

Phil: I wouldn't think so because it would be more geographical, and I don't think, you know, they have offices in San Diego, New York, Toronto, Leeds in England, and Vancouver in Toronto.

Phil: So, I mean, I don't see unless they wanted to move, you know?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So, GTA

Phil: Imagine this, right?

Phil: I mean, people give Rockstar a lot of shit, but when you look at what they did year after year, they released a game a year, sometimes multiple games a year, that were all very creative games.

Phil: GTA Vice City, Manhunt, that was done by North.

Phil: Red Dead Revolver, from San Diego.

Phil: San Andres, the same year that was done by New York.

Phil: Warriors, which is one of my favorite Rockstar games, comes out in done by Toronto.

Phil: Liberty Steery Stories comes out the same year from Leeds.

Phil: Then, amazingly, they bring out the Ping Pong game for the Xbox in

Phil: That was San Diego.

Tom: How can you include the Ping Pong game yet not Midnight Club?

Phil: Well, because it doesn't use the same engines.

Phil: So, Ping Pong, the table tennis game, was basically a test of what they were going to be doing with Grand Theft Auto

Phil: So, you see San Diego goes from doing Red Dead Revolver, and San Diego also did those ATV games, whatever they were called.

Phil: They go from to

Phil: They go to the Ping Pong game, right?

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Then, they release Bully, right?

Phil: Yep.

Tom: Same year as the Ping Pong game.

Phil: After the is already launched, they release a PlayStation exclusive, Bully.

Phil: And that's done by Vancouver, which at this point hasn't done anything for Rockstar.

Tom: So, this is their game view?

Phil: Yeah, and then the next year, Leeds does Vice City Stories and Leeds also does Manhunt which would have been a trivial thing, I assume.

Phil: And then, of course, New York comes out with GTA

Tom: And they run of good gamezines.

Phil: Yeah, I would have put Bully before Warriors.

Phil: Like, in my mind, I would have thought that Bully would have been pre or around San Andreas and before Warriors.

Tom: I remember that coming out.

Tom: That was really late.

Phil: What's that?

Tom: I remember it coming out really late.

Phil: Yeah, and I remember talking amongst fellow game collectors, because they were all like, oh, you've got to get the ball version, the dodgeball version, you know.

Phil: And the thing about collectors is we're very hot on getting late generation releases, right?

Phil: Which for the PlayStation completely burned us, because they only discontinued the PlayStation in right?

Phil: Yet in we're all, oh, we've got to get this one, this could be the last RPG on the PlayStation

Phil: I can't tell you how many shit games, probably, I'm going to guess conservatively, about PlayStation games in my collection, which is about and something of PlayStation games, were bought because they were late generation PlayStation games, that were niche and going to be rare.

Phil: So I was just shocked that Bully came out after Liberty City Stories, before Vice City Stories and after The Warriors.

Phil: Warriors is just brilliant.

Phil: Have you played it?

Tom: You've seen the movie?

Tom: No.

Phil: Wow, you're in for a treat one of these days.

Tom: I almost bought it when it first came out, and then almost bought it a few years later from a bargain being that failed both times.

Phil: I would say someone of your stature would still be able to enjoy The Warriors.

Phil: I would watch the movie, then play the game.

Phil: There's no other way to do it.

Phil: I did not know of this whole IP until I bought the game, then I bought the movie, then I watched the movie, played the game.

Tom: I did not know of The Warriors.

Tom: That's a pretty big film.

Phil: I'm a busy guy.

Phil: I'm out there buying, you know...

Tom: Get crap PSgames.

Phil: Basically, everyone's played Billy, so I'm just going to go...

Phil: Just one thing, I thought the Halloween mission was brilliant.

Phil: I just thought it was great.

Phil: The atmosphere was excellent.

Phil: And it's a great...

Phil: It's a charming little GTA game.

Phil: I would love to know your perspective on this.

Phil: I think this was a kids' game.

Phil: I think this was intended as a kids' game, which would explain its very easy difficulty.

Phil: I mean, I have not undertaken a challenge yet, which I was unable to beat on the first attempt.

Tom: So I would say...

Tom: Is the difficulty the only reason for this, first of all?

Phil: The setting.

Phil: I think because of the setting, they thought that more kids would be...

Phil: Basically, this is a way to get your parents to buy you a GTA game.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, here's what I was going to go with this is...

Tom: I don't think the setting is at all geared towards children.

Phil: No, no.

Tom: Hey, what about...

Phil: I'm talking like seven and up.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Let me finish.

Tom: I would say, here's what I think happened.

Tom: They started off making it as an adult satire on schools.

Tom: Then at some stage, they came about and thought, well, wait a minute.

Tom: If we're making something with the setting of inner school, where all the characters are children, this is surely going to have a broader appeal to children.

Tom: At this stage, then started perhaps trying to make the appeal a little more to children and also perhaps make toning down the gameplay.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: To me, at its core, it is not designed for children, but there's also a sense that at some stage, they then started thinking about, well, for broader appeal, we should perhaps make it more appealing to children.

Phil: Are you familiar with the show Grange Hill?

Tom: No.

Phil: Grange Hill was a series that ran in England for like plus years, which was...

Phil: Bully steals from openly.

Phil: I mean, Rockstar has never had an original idea.

Phil: They're like Google.

Phil: They steal from everyone.

Phil: And they're good at it, though.

Phil: I mean, yeah.

Phil: If you're not the person that came up with the idea, it's easy to improve upon it, you know?

Phil: So, Grange Hill is basically what this game is about.

Phil: And Grange Hill was great because it was aimed at children, but it always had something for adults.

Phil: And it's kind of like, you know, soap operas, like Home and Away.

Phil: They're really going after the teen market, but they put enough in there that an adult can reasonably watch it and not be, you know, ashamed that they're watching a kids' show.

Phil: Home and Away is an Australian soap opera, and it is primarily aimed at teenagers.

Phil: I mean, it's set, most of the stories are set around a high school, but they have enough adult things in there so that a very low IQ person could conceive that they're watching some form of drama.

Phil: And I wouldn't endorse it.

Phil: I mean, I wouldn't endorse watching these.

Phil: There's some aspect of me that really enjoys soap operas, so it's kind of like why I keep away from MMOs.

Phil: I keep away from soap operas because they just give you this pabulum of your brain is taking in information but not having to process it.

Tom: Well, here's the thing about soap operas.

Tom: Have you seen The Original Coronation Street?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Oh, yes.

Tom: See, now, that is an awesome show.

Phil: And EastEnders and, yeah.

Tom: That is actually in, as far as I can see, and bear in mind, I've only seen, I think about half of the first season.

Tom: That is actually really well done.

Tom: It's all basically done in one take.

Tom: It's actually, you know, as far as craft and stuff, it's excellent.

Tom: It's enjoyable as far as the craft is concerned.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: And here's the reason why because soap operas are produced so quickly and rapidly.

Phil: At least my understanding is of it and what I've looked into.

Phil: I wouldn't say research, but what I've looked into is there is a lot of the writers planning out the plot points and then going to the actors and going, okay, we've got a two-minute scene here.

Phil: This is what we're trying to get to.

Phil: You know your characters.

Phil: Let's go.

Phil: So it is basically improvisation.

Phil: It's the same with WWE wrestling and all those sorts of things.

Phil: Many people who are into WWE or also into soap operas, because it's the same thing, right?

Phil: No one is writing word for word what wrestlers say to each other.

Phil: It's just basically, okay, we're at this plot point.

Phil: We're trying to get to this plot point.

Phil: Go.

Phil: And with the right people, like crazy soap opera actors who think they're the actual character, it works.

Phil: Curb Your Enthusiasm, Larry David's show, which is brilliant, is the same thing.

Phil: You have a bunch of very funny people who have done stand-up comedy for a long time, basically saying, okay, here's the three overall arcs.

Phil: This is where this fits in the arc.

Phil: Go for it.

Phil: And it works.

Phil: Were we talking about a video game?

Tom: I just want to say that's what, to me, kills soap operas, is the progress of television going from...

Tom: while this is still visible in many modern soap operas, it is played down so much because unlike in the original ones, it is not literally done in one take for an entire scene.

Tom: To me, that kills soap operas to a great degree.

Tom: There is not as much enjoyment of the actual performance.

Tom: So it ends up coming across as a really lightweight and cheaply done high drama as opposed to an interesting, completely, to a degree, improvised and basically a staged performance.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Well, you say the decline of soap operas is because of lack of, you know, one shot or all in one take type thing.

Phil: Obviously, soap operas have gone under demise mostly because of Facebook.

Phil: At least that's what the popular reporting is, is that people who stay at home are now spending all of their time engaging in their own personal soap operas and then also watching reality cooking shows as well.

Phil: So, you know...

Tom: It might be in terms of writing, but I would disagree with that.

Tom: To me, soap operas have been in steady decline since well before the advent of Facebook.

Phil: Alright, so what would be your favourite all time from the time you were a kid till now, your favourite soap opera?

Tom: I would have to say, and just to ignore everything I said before, probably a country practice All Neighbours.

Phil: Boy, you're going to introduce that.

Phil: You're going to go back that far.

Tom: A country practice is in as far back as Coronation Street.

Phil: Oh, I know, I know.

Phil: What about Flying Doctors?

Tom: Can't recall seeing much of it.

Phil: Hmm, hmm, hmm.

Phil: I'm going to have to say this is not really true to the form because it was only on once a week but I'd have to say that my guiltiest pleasure in terms of this form of drama would probably be a show called Carson's Law.

Phil: But anyway, everyone can look that up and see what that's about.

Phil: Haven't heard of it.

Tom: Is that a lawyer's show?

Phil: It's an Australian show and it was set in the s in Melbourne, Sydney.

Phil: I can't recall.

Phil: But back to video games.

Phil: What else have you been playing?

Tom: And good timing considering this game is also set in around

Tom: And the game is Shin Megami Tensei, Devil Summoner, Raidou Kuzunoha versus The Soulless Army.

Phil: What platform?

Phil: First of all, I got to know.

Tom: PS

Tom: It's only on PS

Tom: And yes, that is the full title.

Tom: And the first thing you notice about this game is being set in around the s, sometime after the First World War.

Tom: The characters are basically wearing silent film makeup and are animated in a very sort of silent film.

Tom: Facial expressions and whatnot, which actually makes for a very good aesthetic.

Tom: And it works well because there is no spoken dialogue in the game.

Phil: Not even in cut scenes?

Tom: Not even in the cut scenes.

Tom: In the cut scenes where there is dialogue, you get a speech bubble with the dialogue slowly scrolling through it.

Phil: Well, what year is this from?

Phil: I mean, I know I have this game, but I didn't...

Phil: I know I had this game.

Tom: It's not even that old.

Tom: I'll get the exact date.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, I also have the boxed sequel to this and I'm never going to open this box.

Phil: I have number and it has a Jack Frost plushie.

Tom: I saw that.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: That looks awesome.

Phil: We'll include an image, but basically, I mean, there's no way I'm ever going to open this box.

Tom: And that was only released in America, in English, by the way, the sequel.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Oh, really?

Tom: American exclusive.

Phil: See, I thought this is what perplexed me.

Phil: I didn't think the original was released in the West until I went over the collection and started looking through all of this stuff.

Tom: Guess the release date of this.

Phil:

Tom: Close.

Tom: for Japan and America and for Europe.

Tom: So it's not even like it's an early-gen PSgame.

Phil: Oh, no.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And the thing is, the lack of dialogue, because of the whole silent film aesthetic, could have worked, but there's two things, because the animation is actually, really does fit the characters very well and almost pulls off their lack of dialogue.

Tom: But the problem is, it's still got sound effects in these cutscenes.

Tom: And it's still got music, which, okay, silent films do sometimes have music, but it's not like silent film music.

Tom: It's very, very generic RPG style music.

Tom: And on top of that, there's only a couple of songs.

Tom: And these songs often don't even have variations on a theme.

Tom: They're often literally the same song in different areas of the game.

Tom: So apparently they just decided to spend maybe $on the total sound design.

Tom: So it's mind-boggling the sound design.

Tom: It's just so incredibly cheap.

Tom: But the thing is you can't help but love the game.

Tom: The main character's outfit, he appears to be wearing a pair of white panties and a bra.

Phil: Who's the main character?

Tom: The main character is Raidou Kuzunoha the Fourteenth, which is the title of the main devil summoner of the time.

Tom: And you also get to name him.

Tom: And by the way, I called my version of him Staunch Country, which I don't know how it seemed to fit the setting perfectly.

Tom: And so his outfit, he's wearing like a black cloak.

Tom: It's a Japanese high school uniform.

Tom: But over that, he's got a white holster, which looks from a distance exactly like a pair of panties.

Tom: I can't even remember what the thing that he's wearing around his chest...

Phil: It's like an ammo belt.

Phil: He's got those things that he throws.

Tom: Yeah, and it looks exactly like a bra.

Tom: I mean, you see this from a distance, you would automatically think he is wearing a bra and panties.

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: You might want to get your eyes checked.

Phil: It looks like an ammo belt.

Phil: It looks like a holster and an ammo belt.

Tom: Are you looking at screenshots?

Phil: No, I'm looking at the back of the sequel.

Phil: It's a massive...

Tom: It might be different in the sequel.

Tom: On the cover of the original, it doesn't look like what it looks like in-game at all.

Phil: And he's got his little policeman cap.

Tom: In-game, I'm telling you, it is a fucking bra and panties.

Tom: But anyway...

Phil: Is it fixed camera or does the camera rotate?

Phil: Do they control the camera or is it fixed?

Tom: In battle or in field?

Phil: In field.

Tom: In field, it's fixed camera.

Tom: And so...

Tom: The interesting thing about it is, though, the combat.

Tom: It's not a turn-based style combat.

Tom: Not only do you have the use of a sword, which is quite limited, you've got three basic attacks.

Tom: You can do light combos, which is three taps of square.

Tom: You can do a more powerful attack, and I can't remember off the top of my head how to do this as I finished it a while ago.

Tom: And you can do a lunge forward.

Tom: But on top of that, you've also got the pistol, which stuns enemies.

Tom: And you can also use elemental bullets, which if you use them against an enemy, who's weak to that element, they then get not only stunned, but you can then go and do a critical attack on them.

Phil: So if they're a fire enemy, ward a bullet, that kind of thing?

Phil: And do they have sword alchemy in this one?

Tom: Yes, they do.

Phil: Okay, so there is that level.

Tom: What you do for that is you get a demon to like you enough, then you can forge them with your sword.

Phil: How do you get affinity with a demon?

Tom: You battle with them or you use an item.

Phil: Do they have like a talk or negotiate option with the enemies, like in Phantasy Star kind of thing?

Tom: Yeah, well, what they've got is a different type of demon.

Tom: There's pagan demons and there's also ice demons and whatnot.

Tom: They've got a special ability which is used in puzzle solving and exploring the world.

Tom: So, for example, pagan demons can read the minds of random people around.

Tom: Ice demons can calm people down and that sort of thing.

Tom: But the thing is, on top of that, when you've got their affinity with you, the other thing you do with them is you combine them with other demons to create new demons.

Tom: So, I got kind of addicted to simply collecting as many demons as I could, getting them all to the highest affinity and then going into this mechanic and seeing what new demons I could create through this.

Tom: And while most of them are demons you can simply get elsewhere, often you can get the demons that you wouldn't be coming across at a later point early.

Tom: So, it's to your interest to do this sort of thing.

Tom: And while it's really simple, it's basically Pokemon light from what I've played Pokemon.

Tom: It's just as engaging as Pokemon and just as enjoyable.

Phil: And slightly more adult in theme, I would imagine, given the aesthetic of the game, at least.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Well, basically, the story is some Japanese general goes rogue and plans to, for the sins of the Japanese army, kill everyone in the cabin.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And the themes are, well, primitive and completely over the top.

Tom: They're quite well done, and you've got all these whole Japanese army guilt throughout the whole thing, and Japanese Empire guilt throughout the whole thing.

Tom: So it's definitely worth playing if you enjoy Japan's inherited guilt and fear of nuclear holocaust.

Phil: Well, I know Shadow Hearts Covenant did a good job of that as well.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And it was set in the same exact era, World War I, you know, went all over the world, but also dealt with Japan.

Phil: So it was kind of, you know, it's a retcon of the whole thing.

Phil: It's basically, you know, looking at that era.

Phil: All history is chronocentric, which I think is the term I came up with.

Phil: You know, you're always looking at the past through the lens of the present.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And so what we think of what was going on in World War I era Japan obviously has nothing to do with what actually was going on.

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: And even if you look back years to the war in Iraq, our memories of it now obviously are nothing like what was actually going on at the time.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, is there much more to say about...

Tom: Just two very quick things.

Tom: The first thing is that...

Tom: The other great thing about the demons is the design is really good.

Tom: For example, there is...

Tom: One of the enemies is a car, basically.

Phil: Oh, right on.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And there's also basically a sort of imp, Japanese imp slash cherub, which has a tentacle for a penis.

Tom: And there's also...

Tom: They've got the classic Japanese...

Phil: Wait, wait.

Phil: An imp has a tentacle?

Tom: Yeah, for a penis.

Phil: An imp is a little tiny thing, right?

Phil: And a tentacle is this large...

Tom: Yep.

Tom: It's a big tentacle dick.

Phil: It's basically what you'd visualize if you were to say an imp with a tentacle penis.

Tom: Well, you've got to bear in mind Japanese imp.

Tom: So it's this black sort of levitating...

Tom: .

Tom: evil sort of guy that is very impish with a tentacle dick.

Phil: Oh, right on.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And there's also, of course, the classic penis-headed demon, as you see around in Japanese mythology everywhere.

Phil: And in Aliens.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And so apart from that, the only disappointing thing about the combat, which is really simple but really well done, and when you get into some of the lighter battles which are really tough, you've actually got to consider what attacks you're using, what demons you're using, because the other thing is you can at any time in battle swap out your demons for a different element.

Tom: So if you've got a demon of a certain element, you can get a huge upper hand in battle, and if you've got one of a crap element compared to the people you're battling, you can just get completely destroyed.

Tom: So there's a fair bit of strategy involved.

Tom: And the last thing I forgot to mention was the demons in your party basically have their own AI.

Tom: So if you don't tell them to do anything, they'll just float around acting as they would if you were battling them normally except against enemies.

Phil: That's cool.

Tom: Yep, but you can give them direct orders, like tell them to use a specific skill, but you can also give them sort of more simple orders, so you can tell them to support you, and so they'll focus on healing you, but sometimes attack and that sort of thing.

Tom: So it's basically a simplified version of Final Fantasy XII's battle system, which they were hugely lauded for as if they invented this idea in Japanese RPGs.

Tom: But lo and behold, just as their real-time combat system has been done elsewhere, voila, their commands have been done elsewhere as well.

Phil: In fact, that same thing is in Spec Ops The Line to a large degree.

Phil: So it's hardly an original idea.

Tom: Just as many, many combat systems that are in any JRPG somewhat breaks through into the mainstream get lauded for, even though there's a million small JRPGs that have done this before.

Phil: Look at GTA San Andreas, for example, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: You know, how lauded it was because if you went, you know, for all the RPG elements that were in that, and we've talked about this before, that basically, you know, how will JRPGs survive?

Phil: Well, they're going to survive as features of regular games.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So, well, with that...

Tom: The last thing, in fact, I'm going to stand that point is the more games, more JRPGs I play that aren't simply using a turn-based system, all of them, and many of them are quite good, simply demonstrate just how damn exceptional the combat system in Hyperdimension, Neptune and Mkis.

Phil: And how is that?

Tom: Well, it basically does all of these things that these systems do, combining them with, on top of that, combat systems from, like, Final Fantasy Tactics to create an exceptional, perfect system, where it's basically every JRPG you've played, not done better than the best of the best, but done more than adequately so that you get a great taste of everything that JRPGs have to offer in their combat systems.

Tom: And it does do it better than the more run-of-the-mill combat systems.

Phil: Right, and when you combine that with the, you know, all the meta jokes...

Tom: It's a perfect combination of gameplay and things.

Phil: And things.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Alright, well that's it for what we've been playing.

Phil: We're going to move on to our feature now.

Phil: We're going to be basically spoiling a lot of...

Phil: We're going to be spoiling the game Spec Ops The Line, which is a game that came out in last year.

Tom: I would just say for those that don't want to be spoiled, don't get the PC port.

Phil: Do not get the PC port.

Phil: Try and pick up the PlayStation or version.

Phil: Though other people like SteelAttack at thebgpress.com didn't have a problem on the PC.

Tom: Well, that's incorrect, I have to say.

Tom: That's a load of bullshit, first of all.

Tom: First and foremost, just tell me, was the console's version incredibly jaggy?

Phil: No.

Tom: He said his version was in fact incredibly jaggy, and he had his card forcing it to do FXAA.

Phil: Well, let's just say that, you know...

Tom: And on top of that, I've also...

Tom: While I was saying this, a friend has been playing SteelWit, and they've had even more port issues than I have.

Tom: So it's definitely % crap port.

Phil: In that case, at least get it for the PlayStation

Phil: I can vouch for that.

Phil: I don't know about the version.

Phil: This is not a big seller, so I wouldn't imagine that the publisher Ubisoft would have much interest in doing a good port to the PC.

Phil: It's probably just the cash grab, because it did pick up such a cult status after its release that they were probably like, okay, well, if we release this digitally through Steam, et cetera, you know, we'll be able to make a few hundred grand.

Phil: Just, you know, whatever.

Phil: Just port the frigging thing, right?

Tom: And cash grab is a massive understatement.

Phil: Well, while I agree that the PC version, based on what you've had to say and those around you have said about it, is a cash grab, I mean, specifically, I mean, what was so much worse about it?

Phil: Because, you know, for the complaints about the game that people had on the console version, no one ever brought up the technical aspects of it.

Tom: Yeah, well, the first thing I'll say is, functionally, it's a solid port.

Tom: Like, the controls are handled well enough.

Tom: You're not running into game-destroying glitches, console, that sort of thing.

Tom: But this I have only ever seen, but I can think of off the top of my head, at least, in one other game, which is, it does not support a different aspect ratio apart from widescreen.

Tom: So on my to monitor, I have to play with black bars.

Tom: Now, maybe this was...

Tom: Here's just the sort of level of games that you might expect this to be.

Tom: The only game I can think of that does this is A Virus Named Tom.

Tom: And in the case of A Virus Named Tom, it actually kind of makes sense just...

Tom: Once again, we're considering the budget constraints involved here.

Tom: Makes somewhat sense for the gameplay because the size and ratio and everything of the maps involved are important, right?

Tom: So if you were to put that on a -monitor, you wouldn't be able to change the shape of the map.

Tom: You'd basically, instead of having black bars at the top and the bottom, say, you would just have the background unrelated to any gameplay extending further.

Tom: So that's kind of pointless.

Tom: Now, that doesn't apply to a shooter.

Tom: In a shooter, there's absolutely no reason not to simply cut off the edges.

Tom: You could say you lose some peripheral vision, but it's so much more natural to play that with the screen filled up.

Tom: The only other reason I think of it is apart from just sheer laziness is maybe they wanted it for some sort of theatrical reason so that it still looked like a film.

Tom: Just if you want to do that, which surely not.

Tom: Surely not.

Tom: Just have the cutscenes like that.

Tom: There's no need to try and resize the cutscenes, which a lot of games do do very well, by the way.

Tom: You would expect that in a lot of games.

Tom: But if you want to keep a cinematic ratio and the cutscenes fine, don't do that in the gameplay.

Tom: That's just utter stupidity.

Tom: Seriously.

Phil: What is your favourite movie of all time?

Phil: Like what is the movie that you respect the most?

Tom: There is no single film.

Phil: Well, give me like two or three.

Tom: I'll give you two, then I can think of all three.

Tom: I'll give you three.

Tom: I just thought of the third one.

Tom: Off the top of my head, let's say A Space Odyssey, Sympathy for Mr Vengeance and Brazil.

Phil: Let's take Space Odyssey, right?

Phil: Basically, like here's the analogy, right?

Phil: When I went to see Jurassic Park ten years ago, was it ten years ago or twenty?

Tom: I don't think it was twenty.

Tom: I'm pretty sure that came out twenty years ago, but I would say it's more than ten.

Tom: Maybe fifteen or something.

Phil: Fifteen, right?

Phil: Let's say I went to see it and I went, I made a point because I was an idiot and I was so young.

Phil: I made a point of going to see it on the biggest screen possible, right?

Phil: With the best sound and I stood in line for a long time and I probably got the premier experience of Jurassic Park that was available to anyone, right?

Phil: Now, if you had waited a year or a year and a half, it eventually would have made its way down to one of the multiplexes where they have the screens that are cut in half, you know, because they downsize the theater to make two theaters and it's a dollar eighty to get in as opposed to, you know, seventeen, fifty and all the rest.

Phil: When I hear you talk about Spec Ops The Line, what I want our listeners to understand is that this game is brilliant on so many levels and basically what Tom is describing is he went and saw it when it was a dollar eighty a year and a half later in some shitty theater where you pay a dollar eighty for a matinee where they don't clean the chairs in between, you know, individual showings.

Phil: You're seeing a compromised experience of this game which really has nothing to do with the original producers of the game because the game came out for the consoles and then once it built up this indie hype, not indie hype, this cult classic hype, then it was exploited as a cash grab on the PC.

Phil: That has nothing to do with the people that did all the hard technical work to bring out the great console version.

Tom: I'm not blaming them.

Phil: As you continue to criticize the game though, we should note that the limitations under which you observed the game were not optimal.

Tom: You need not worry.

Tom: My criticisms of the actual game itself can be blamed solely on the people that made it and are unrelated to any technical...

Phil: Let's hang this on the publisher.

Phil: It is the publisher's fault.

Phil: They're the one charging real money from people who do real work for a game on the PC and they have fallen short.

Phil: They're not only letting down the people who play it, they're letting down the people who loved it on the console and they're letting down the people who built this game.

Phil: And built this game over four years, you know?

Phil: Anyway, I'm sorry to have to interrupt you, but that's basically my...

Phil: I just wanted to make sure that we're clear that you had a compromised experience with this game, mostly because of the publisher, not because of the developer.

Tom: Here's the other point.

Phil: Having said that...

Tom: Yeah, as I said.

Tom: So let's just move straight into the criticism then.

Tom: Now, I played this on hard, and I'm sure you may have noticed, as you were involved in this, both you and Steel and a couple of others seemed to think that this was a bad idea.

Tom: And that perhaps...

Tom: And are you going to attempt to blame the publisher for this as well?

Tom: Did the publisher attempt to shoehorn in a hard difficulty?

Tom: Because apparently I should not have played it on hard.

Phil: I think, first of all, number one, just no response, please, you're an idiot playing a game on its first playthrough on hard without at least trying it on its...

Phil: the default difficulty.

Phil: There is a default difficulty suggested, right?

Phil: So when you get into a manual transmission car, the default gear for going, let's say, kilometers an hour, is fourth, right?

Phil: You do not go, well, that's great, but I'm going to try it in third, right?

Phil: You're going to blow up the engine.

Phil: I do think that you are living up to your fool's name.

Tom: But that analogy makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Phil: I just think you're punching yourself in the face going into a game, starting it on hard.

Phil: Now, I do agree with you that if the publisher is going to make hard available at the start, they need to make sure that it is a good experience on that level of difficulty.

Phil: And instead, if they're not going to do the QA into that, they should just release the game and have normal and easy, and then once you've beaten the game on normal, then they can unlock hard.

Phil: So yeah, I mean...

Tom: See, that is my point.

Tom: I don't see how you can blame anyone but the developer for stuffing something up.

Tom: If they include it...

Phil: No, you're the guy that goes into an Indian restaurant and says, oh, I like spicy food.

Phil: No, wait.

Phil: I like spicy food.

Phil: Give me your hottest dish ever, right?

Phil: And then you take a mouthful and you're like, oh, I can't eat this.

Phil: I can't eat this.

Phil: This is fucking terrible.

Tom: Take this back.

Phil: I'm not paying for it, right?

Tom: Except two problems with that.

Tom: One is I would have no trouble with that hot food.

Phil: Nor would I.

Tom: And secondly, though, once again, I think the point that is being missed here is the issues with the difficulty, the frustration involved, was not due to the design of the difficulty.

Tom: The problem was with flaws in design that led to this being an issue.

Tom: And just to demonstrate this point, I'll use this example, right?

Tom: There were three occasions where I died enough for the game to suggest that I play on a lower difficulty, right?

Phil: So they're helping you along.

Tom: Now, the first time this happened...

Phil: The waiter comes along and says, Sir, would you like a glass of water?

Phil: And you said...

Tom: No, fuck you.

Tom: But the first time this happened was the helicopter scene.

Tom: Now, you got through this fine, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: But I'm going to pause here, right?

Phil: Because I'm going to take a step back, and I'm going to give our listeners, those whom have not yet played Spec Ops, we haven't spoiled the game yet, and we'll give you ample warning when we are.

Phil: Spec Ops is technically a third-person shooter with very light squad-based strategy elements, right?

Phil: So when you hear Spec Ops, you might be scared off because you think, oh, Spec Ops, that's that squad-based game.

Phil: You go to control like four different guys and tell them what to do and everything.

Phil: This was a game development team that was basically told, you guys need to make a Spec Ops game.

Phil: It needs to have Spec Ops in the name.

Phil: It needs to be a shooter and it needs to be set in Dubai.

Phil: I know all this from listening to developer interviews.

Phil: And then from there on, they developed a game and they found that it was pretty poor.

Phil: They found that the gameplay was pretty generic.

Phil: And at that point Ubisoft and game reviewers had come in and played the game and gone, okay, this is fine.

Phil: It's serviceable game.

Phil: But Ubisoft said, okay, we're not going to do anything with this game.

Phil: This game is not going to sell.

Phil: It's very generic.

Phil: Therefore, they took the leashes off of the writers and said, try and make this special.

Phil: And so they did.

Phil: They basically took Conrad's novel The Heart of Darkness, which was later transmorphed into the film...

Tom: Apocalypse Now.

Phil: Apocalypse Now.

Phil: And that's what this game is based on.

Phil: And the writers have said that that's what they were using as their inspiration.

Phil: So, I mean, kudos, first of all, for Ubisoft for not pulling an Activision and just pulling the plug like they killed sleeping dogs, right?

Phil: And second of all, I mean, how amazing is it to get a game where the publisher tells the writers, okay, you know what, we know this game is kind of boring, so if you want to do what you want with the story, go for it.

Phil: I mean, when I talked about this at thevgpress.com, that's where I was saying this game never should have been published.

Phil: Like a rational publisher like Activision, you know, a profit-based company would never have published this game, let alone for the subject matter and everything else, because it's not a special game beyond its story, and you'll get into that.

Phil: Well, I played it too, so I get to give impressions too.

Phil: But basically, I did want to take a step back and let people know this is a third-person shooter.

Phil: Nolan North voices the lead character, does a spectacular job throughout the game.

Phil: I particularly liked the one strategy element of the game, which you get to paint targets, which I know is fairly common in shooters these days.

Phil: But basically, you get to paint them and tell your AI partners, you know, focus in on those characters.

Phil: So basically, having said that, I just wanted to give everyone a framework as to what we're talking about when it comes to Spec Ops The Line.

Phil: I'll let you take the floor again.

Tom: So the first occasion where it suggested all over the difficulty was Helicopsy.

Tom: You got through it fine.

Tom: Still have the same problem with me.

Tom: The other person I know who was playing it also got through it fine.

Tom: Now, here's the reason for this, okay?

Tom: It is completely random.

Tom: There is no...

Tom: nothing the player can do to get through it using skill or whatever.

Tom: What happens is you're running along avoiding helicopter fire, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: I'm taking your word for it because I don't even remember this scene.

Tom: Well, the first time I ran through, okay?

Tom: Straight line, just straight ahead thinking, okay, this is...

Tom: what this is like in most games, you know, it's basically not a gameplay section.

Tom: You're just running in a cutscene, right?

Tom: So then you turn a corner and I stopped here thinking due to the geography involved that the helicopter wasn't going to come and shoot me again.

Tom: So while stopped here though and I was looking around at the environment as one does, I then got shot by the helicopter.

Tom: So I started again, thought, okay, fine.

Tom: Did literally the...

Tom: exactly the same thing, ran exactly the same pathway forwards, started sprinting exactly the same time.

Tom: Oh, wait a minute, halfway along I'm dead.

Tom: So then I think maybe I did something different.

Tom: Maybe there is some sort of strategy required here.

Tom: So the next time I watched where the fire from the helicopter was coming from, right, which is completely scripted, it's the same each time.

Tom: So I got killed again, but I could see where it was coming from.

Tom: So this time I decided to sort of strafe a bit and avoid it, died again.

Tom: And so I tried again and again, trying different things.

Tom: No matter what I did, % of the time, I literally died in exactly the same spot as if it was scripted that I had to die there.

Tom: And so, for example, I could pause without starting to run for two seconds, then start sprinting and I would die in the same spot.

Tom: Right?

Tom: There was no rhyme or reason to what the hell was happening.

Tom: So I then went to YouTube.

Tom: I watched some other people doing it.

Tom: And once again, there was no discernible way to actually progress beyond sheer luck.

Tom: And most of the commentary of these people dying repeatedly again and again, generally have the same point that what the fuck is this utter load of rubbish?

Phil: Okay, well, at this point, I'm going to insert a spoiler warning.

Phil: So everyone who's been listening to this point, who hasn't played the game, gosh guys, don't listen on it at this point because you've got to experience this game and you can get it for cheap.

Phil: Don't get the PC version.

Phil: Go get the old, you know, the console versions used.

Phil: It's a game you can beat in two to three games.

Phil: It's a, I think, and Steel Attack thinks, it's one of the most consequential video games of all time.

Phil: He thinks it's the best shooter of all time.

Phil: I think it's merely the most consequential video game of this generation.

Phil: What consequences are we going to have?

Phil: Well, we're going to get into that.

Phil: So that's a spoiler.

Phil: Now, what if, for all...

Phil: Tom, if...

Phil: What if...

Phil: Like you say that you're assuming that the story doesn't actually play out that much differently regardless of your choices.

Phil: This is a game of many, many choices.

Tom: Hang on, wait a minute.

Tom: Is this relevant to this point first of all?

Phil: Yes, absolutely, because what I'm saying is what if the developer...

Phil: There are many choices you can make in the game, but ultimately, up until the end, you're still going to go down the same path.

Phil: It's just a matter of how you're going to feel about yourself, what cutscenes you see.

Phil: So throughout the game, there's probably about times where you get to make a decision, where it's going to have an impact later on the game, in terms of what you see.

Phil: In terms of the story and where you go and what levels you go and who you shoot, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever.

Phil: So what I'm asking you is, is perhaps the randomness of this helicopter thing a comment on the fact that what you do, regardless of your choices, doesn't have a difference.

Phil: It doesn't make a difference.

Phil: You can go left, you can go right, you're going to die.

Phil: Or you can go straight ahead and get through, because we've randomly determined that, you know, at the flip of a coin in the code, at the start of this experience, you're either going to get through the first time, as I did, to the point where I didn't even remember this level, because I just walked right through it.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Or to the point where you and many YouTube commenters are like, what's going on here?

Phil: No matter what I do, I don't...

Tom: Well, let me just say this then.

Phil: Are you being disenfranchised on purpose, as a part of the larger point of the game?

Tom: No.

Tom: Well, maybe you are, but if that is the case, that is single-handedly the most incredibly stupid way to illustrate a point in any video game I have ever played in my entire life.

Tom: And I sincerely hope that that is not the case.

Phil: You know what?

Phil: I'd agree with you.

Tom: What?

Phil: I do agree with you.

Phil: I was just wondering if that was...

Phil: I just wondered if it was intentional or not.

Tom: Well, that's actually a good question because maybe it is because where the writers struggle the absolute most is where they're trying to make a point unsubtly.

Tom: And that would be an incredibly unsubtle way of making that point.

Tom: And it wouldn't really surprise me.

Tom: Well, it would, to be honest, because that's just so extreme.

Tom: But it wouldn't be too far-fetched to be possibly believable that it might have been...

Tom: that that might be the case, what you described.

Phil: Given the pre-rain they had and given the, what do you say, head fucking that goes on in this game, I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.

Phil: Obviously it was intentional because it's random, right?

Phil: Someone had to make the choice that it's random.

Phil: So are you making the choice that it's random because you're a dick and you've got to cut out early for lunch on a Friday afternoon?

Phil: Or are you doing it because it underscores the greater thematic narrative of this game?

Tom: And we'll see that at some point because the other thing is, while playthroughs, I assumed that was presumably simply because of poor scaling for Hard, right?

Tom: Where they would have had the amount of bullet does, right?

Tom: But it doesn't work there where you're in that situation.

Tom: But given that Steel had the same problem on Medium, you may in fact have a point, which is not necessarily a good thing.

Phil: No, I mean the game is not perfect.

Phil: I mean, it's not perfect.

Tom: But just moving on very quickly just to finish this point here.

Tom: Now, the second time that this happened, okay, just to demonstrate, I'm not complaining that the game...

Phil: You are.

Phil: You are.

Phil: You hung up on this one little thing.

Tom: No, I'm not.

Tom: Let me finish.

Tom: This is what I'm getting at.

Tom: The second time that it suggested that I should change the difficulty was in a car park section where you are then eventually accosted by a heavy, right?

Tom: So what happened here was I stupidly wasted my ammo, okay?

Tom: So I had to start off with running up and malaying someone and getting ammo.

Tom: So the whole thing was an uphill battle.

Tom: And combined with the poor AI was quite a challenge.

Tom: Now, that was good to me.

Tom: That was good if you ask me.

Tom: I want it to be a challenge.

Tom: And that was a challenge.

Tom: If it was harder than it should have been, it was through my own stupidity, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: Yeah, yes.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I'm not blaming the game, okay?

Tom: Now, the next one, and this is partly due to my stupidity, was at one stage your god, the black guy, who is behind you with a pistol, right?

Tom: And his role is to shoot enemies that flank you.

Tom: Now, the trouble with that is, % of the time, it's once again somewhat of a coin flip if he's actually going to shoot them.

Tom: So, you've basically got to make sure that no one does go and flank you.

Tom: Which makes the whole thing drastically hard, because the whole thing is clearly being balanced with a normal in mind where his ineptitude is actually going to be useful.

Tom: Now, once again, this was incredibly frustrating because it was poorly balanced, but I played on hard.

Tom: So, once again, I'm not complaining about that.

Tom: That's the third time.

Tom: Now, the fourth time, the only other time that it suggested I lower the difficulty was at the very end, it starts off, you know the section right, you start off in a golf course, right?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Right outside the giant hotel.

Tom: So then, once you've proceeded through the golf course, you get into another battle, right?

Tom: You begin inside and then you slowly proceed outside.

Tom: Now, that was the only other time in the game where it suggests I lower the difficulty, which, by the way, was due to several times where I deliberately killed myself because I accidentally picked up ammo and I shouldn't have.

Tom: And the reason for that was...

Phil: How did that result in you killing yourself?

Tom: I then deliberately killed myself because I wasted the ammo.

Tom: So I'm playing on hard, so I need to be washing my hair, you see, right?

Phil: Yep.

Tom: So the fourth time that the game told me I should lower the difficulty was right after the golf course.

Tom: It's the very final action sequence.

Tom: So you go in and the only time it told me to lower the difficulty, by the way, was because on several occasions I had to kill myself due to accidentally picking up ammo before I should have, which is the perfect indicator that this part was so much better designed and I got the hard difficulty bang on in this section because I actually had to consider very, very carefully my ammo usage, my grenade usage, and my squad usage.

Tom: All of that was so perfectly done.

Tom: It was basically equivalent to playing a very casual version of Rainbow Six and so much fun compared to the rest of the game.

Tom: Now, as far as I can see, out of those four examples, there's only been one time that I've complained about the game being too hard.

Tom: Yes?

Phil: Right.

Tom: And perhaps the third one.

Tom: But once I realized that and I accepted, okay, the guy behind me is not going to help me.

Tom: That's just a remnant from medium and simply focused entirely my efforts on basically redoing my whole battle strategy.

Tom: I got no problem with that.

Tom: It was just poor scaling, right?

Tom: So the only time that I complained about the difficulty was during the random part, okay?

Tom: So I'm not sure at what stage you can say that playing on hard has in fact diminished my experience of the game in any way.

Phil: No, I'd agree with that.

Phil: I mean basically the bottom line is I think it's generally ill-advised to start a game on hard.

Phil: I think you should start on the default and then if you find it too easy, move up to hard.

Phil: Or if you find it too difficult, move down to easy.

Phil: Which is what I do it all the time.

Phil: If I find a game too hard, I'll move it down to easy.

Phil: I'll launch it up to hard fewer times than more.

Phil: But I'm not going to...

Phil: All I'm saying is the technical aspects of this game were the least of my concerns.

Phil: It actually never even raised its head.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, here's the thing though.

Tom: I mean, if you're playing on normal and breezing through it, I can see there wouldn't be annoyance with the AI.

Tom: And here's a perfectly good illustration...

Phil: I wasn't breezing through it though.

Phil: I mean, on normal...

Tom: The thing is, on normal, you're not necessarily going to be breezing through it.

Tom: But the margin for error is going to be lower.

Tom: So if the AI fucks things up for you, it's going to be less frustrating, right?

Tom: Now, just here's an example of the bizarreness of the AI on hard, okay?

Tom: Up to Chapter I genuinely thought that my teammates could not be killed because I would see them standing down in the opening and the enemies would be shooting them in the head, literally a whole magazine directly into their head.

Tom: And it went literally straight from that in Chapter

Tom: Suddenly, I'm in Chapter they stand there yoping for five seconds and, oh, wait, they're dead and I have to go and heal them or tell the other to go and heal them.

Tom: It was just completely bizarre.

Tom: I mean, that's not even the AI.

Tom: That's the balance of the damage.

Phil: I just...

Tom: it boggles the mind how that can even happen.

Phil: I found that on normal, the enemy AI was pretty much on par with Gears of War.

Phil: They took care of themselves for the most part but from time to time you did have to go over and heal them.

Tom: Let's say at least it's a lot better than Kill Learn and

Tom: But here's the other thing though.

Tom: I mean, I don't think I would have enjoyed it any more on normal because here's the thing.

Tom: On hard, for great periods I was in fact breezing through it.

Tom: I found it generally far too easy.

Tom: So on normal, I can only imagine I would have found it probably just as boring as some of the more frustrating parts of hard.

Tom: I think that's mainly because, except at the very end, those last two combat sections, they never really do anything with the level design.

Tom: It's all kind of exactly the same.

Tom: So after you learn what to do at the very beginning of the game, you're doing the same thing again and again.

Tom: And the AI is so simple.

Tom: The only way that is better than the AI in something on the level of Killzone and from that long ago is that the enemies are more likely to hide and respond to you shooting at them.

Tom: That's the only improvement over something like Killzone.

Tom: So once you get the hang of what you're doing, you can just breeze through % of it even on hard.

Tom: I could anyway.

Phil: I think the enemy AI was nothing to write home about in this game.

Phil: I'm thinking that perhaps maybe even your ease of playing this game on the harder level is in part again because of the bad port, because you're using mouse controls, which is so much easier to apply precise control than the wavy analog sticks of a console.

Tom: The only fix to that is, of course, there are some problems with sticking to cover with the keyboard because you don't have degrees of movement.

Tom: So, for example, you might try to shimmy along, but if you've got the camera angle just slightly off, then he's going to remove himself from the wall.

Phil: Well, that happened in the console game as well.

Phil: It even happens in Gears of War

Phil: The kings of cover where you stick to things that you don't want to stick to or you stick to things too long.

Tom: That's something Binary Domain did so excellently.

Phil: Oh, Binary Domain, man.

Phil: That guy, Nogoshi Skooled.

Phil: Skooled.

Phil: I mean, it's just insane that Gears, which is, like I said, the king of cover, even in the third iteration of the game, still had it wrong.

Phil: And then Binary Domain comes along and just completely owns it.

Tom: I cannot think of a better third person shooter this gen that I've played anyway.

Phil: No, I'd have to give it more thought, but I'd probably come to the same conclusion.

Tom: So basically, the gameplay, it didn't really hit the mark for me overall.

Tom: Now, once again, of course, you're going to say, who cares about the gameplay?

Tom: But to me, it matters.

Tom: I mean, on the one hand, it didn't get in the way of the story, right?

Tom: It didn't prevent me from enjoying the main focus of the game, yep?

Phil: Well, good.

Tom: But the thing is, I'm still spending several hours not doing the story.

Tom: I'm still spending several hours playing the game itself.

Tom: So that's a large part of the experience to me.

Phil: I don't know what to say.

Phil: I found it to be an entirely enjoyable game in and of itself.

Phil: Even if it didn't have the story, I found it to be a workable game.

Tom: I'm not saying it's not workable that I didn't enjoy it.

Tom: It's just like probably a five for me, the gameplay.

Phil: Yeah, I'd say the gameplay itself is probably a seven.

Phil: I mean, yeah, for me, you know, I play a lot of these third-person shooters and I really like the paint elements of it.

Phil: I really did.

Phil: Which would have, you know, which moves it up from a six kind of thing in and of itself.

Phil: But, you know, I play a lot of crap games.

Phil: I play a lot of generic games.

Phil: So just for me, having something that's slightly out of the box was more than enough just on the gameplay element.

Phil: And then they don't...

Phil: The story doesn't kick in until about...

Phil: you're about a third of the way into the game.

Tom: That's the thing I hated.

Phil: Yeah, very subtly.

Tom: I mean, the first third...

Phil: And then they really ramp it up.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Which I think in the overall arc of it works well.

Tom: Once you get past the boring first third, which at the very beginning, it feels like it's setting something up right.

Tom: Then though, it kind of goes off to the wayside where it then just becomes really generic.

Tom: And the chatter between the characters involved is just the most generic crap you could ever come up with.

Tom: And I'm not saying...

Phil: It was on purpose.

Tom: That's the point.

Tom: But when you go through it then, you think, when the fuck is this shit going to end?

Tom: When is it going to get to something good?

Tom: Then it does though.

Tom: And at the end, it fits perfectly with the overall structure of the story.

Phil: So the first third of the game is basically Army of Two, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And see, the craziest thing to me, right, I had a peripheral knowledge of this game, very peripheral knowledge.

Phil: I bought it for cheap.

Phil: I put it in and the very first thing I hear is Jimi Hendrix playing the American National Anthem from, you know, whatever that comes from, god damn it, I can't remember right now, which is in itself provocative.

Phil: It was provocative at the time, right?

Phil: And the American flag is flying upside down.

Phil: And of course, it's part of maritime law.

Phil: Anytime you fly the flag upside down, it means you're under distress.

Phil: So the very first image you see of the game, before you even start the game, on the menu, is an American soldier huddled over next to an American flag that's upside down and you're hearing Jimi Hendrix play the American National Anthem, like, baa, baa, baa, baa, baa, baa, right?

Phil: Which is the theme of you know, and the crazy thing to me, as soon as I saw those two images in a pose, I was like, okay, this game is subversive, right?

Phil: This is a subversive game.

Phil: This is, I mean, very obvious.

Phil: The crazy thing is when I listen to, like, reviewers like Jeff Gerstmann and other people in podcasts, you know, express surprise that a third of the way into the game, the game started to turn subversive.

Phil: It was like, I knew right from the start.

Phil: Oh, holy shit.

Tom: You don't even need to know that that's Jimi Hendrix to get that.

Tom: I mean, this is going to be a ride, right?

Tom: It's the King's Shoes off-key.

Tom: Hey, Redemption of the National Anthem with the flag of Dubai presented like that.

Tom: That's obviously going to be the case.

Phil: Yeah, or the United States, you know.

Phil: So, for me, now the writers said that they wanted to set up the first third of the game, just set it up for dude bros.

Phil: So, as they're playing the game, they're like, okay, we get this, we know what we're doing, we're comfortable with this.

Phil: And then, of course, they flip it on it.

Phil: And we've already given a spoiler warning.

Phil: There were some several shocking things in the game.

Phil: Hang on.

Tom: See, and that's the thing that makes those shocking things work so well.

Phil: Right.

Tom: Because there's no lead up to them.

Tom: I mean, you get the submersive hints that something's going to happen.

Tom: But then it goes into the most generic gameplay and shatter whatever, and bam, there's the white phosphorus.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, now also Nolan North is a part of this as well.

Phil: Right.

Phil: They've got all American Nolan North doing the voices.

Phil: What's interesting to note is that Nolan North did this prior to Uncharted.

Phil: This game was in development for so long that he did the voice work for this before Uncharted had even come out, which of course made him famous from that point forward.

Phil: And his vocal performance in this game, he plays the lead protagonist, you do.

Phil: His voice throughout gets more and more ragged.

Phil: So at the start of the game, which I love, they're quoting Unreal Tournament.

Phil: So like, anyone else want some?

Phil: So in the first third of the game, it's jokey.

Phil: It's like, oh, you kill a guy.

Phil: Anyone else want some?

Phil: And by the end of it, it's like, anyone else want some?

Phil: And, you know, spoilers here.

Phil: But basically, there's a part of the game where you come to...

Phil: Well, first of all, you find some people that you think are enemies at the very start of the game.

Phil: And you basically shoot them, right?

Phil: Because it comes up on a screen.

Phil: It says, shoot the enemy, right?

Phil: And so you shoot them.

Phil: It's the very first blood of the game.

Phil: And you don't have to shoot them, as it turns out, right?

Tom: Actually, technically though, which party are you referring to?

Tom: Are you referring to the very first battle with the people on the bus?

Phil: Yep.

Tom: What happens if you don't shoot them there?

Tom: Did you find out?

Phil: No.

Phil: But I do know that it is optional because in the both cases...

Tom: Because I waited a long time and I think they started shooting at us.

Phil: Right.

Tom: So I think you do have to shoot them then.

Phil: Right.

Phil: I'm not sure.

Phil: I'm told that you don't have to shoot them, but in my two playthroughs you're compelled to shoot them.

Phil: And it turns out...

Tom: Maybe they just shoot you for a while then give up.

Tom: Right.

Phil: And the fact of the matter is as a part of the story, basically as a part of the story, you're a three-man squad who is sent into Dubai, right?

Phil: Now Dubai, of course, is that architectural phenomenon in the Middle East which is basically like the Las Vegas of the Middle East, except a thousand times better, a thousand times better, a thousand times bigger.

Phil: And there's been some form of natural disaster in the terms of a sandstorm.

Phil: So the US sends their general, you know, their top guy from Afghanistan, who's on his way home, he either decides on his own or the government sends him to go in there with his squadron, basically.

Tom: The rd.

Phil: The rd.

Phil: Now, since then, no one has heard from him or anyone in the region.

Phil: And there is some mystical, spiritual quality to this.

Phil: This is where the spooky stuff comes into the game, that there's this huge sort of sandstorm and the vengeance of God and all the rest of it.

Phil: Because Dubai is so aberrant to Muslim culture and all the rest of it.

Phil: So basically, this war hero, this general, this Schwarzkopf type, takes the rd squad in as a rescue mission to save the civilians out of Dubai.

Phil: But no one has heard of him.

Phil: So the government, not knowing what to do, sends in this special ops team to see what's going on.

Phil: You, playing the Nolan North character, basically have had previous experience with the big guy, the big general, Conrad.

Phil: And you have tremendous admiration for him.

Phil: And basically, what you're struggling with throughout the game...

Tom: They were in love, let's put it that way.

Phil: Yeah, they were in love.

Phil: And basically what you're struggling with throughout the game is you see that Conrad has basically become a small dictator of Dubai.

Phil: And that he's overseen some very cruel and genocide type stuff.

Phil: But because of your love for him or your admiration for him, you can't believe it.

Tom: Love and admiration.

Phil: Love and admiration.

Phil: So you're telling your squad mates the whole time, no, Conrad wouldn't do this, Conrad wouldn't do that.

Phil: We've got to find Conrad, he'll tell us the truth.

Phil: Now at a certain point in the game, you use the real world chemical white phosphorus on what you think is a bunch of enemies.

Phil: And it turns out that you're using it on a bunch of civilians.

Phil: Now this is basically the worst form of biochemical warfare that you can imagine.

Phil: And it basically calcifies people.

Phil: Now as you're playing this game, it is a vision of Modern Warfare where basically you're just seeing everything in black and white.

Phil: You know, you're up in an airplane, you're overlooking it, and you're just dropping these bombs.

Tom: It's in the vein of a drone attack.

Phil: In the vein of a drone attack, where you're completely depersonalized, disassociated with the harm that you're doing.

Phil: So, but you think you're killing these guys.

Phil: You really don't have a choice.

Phil: You have to do this.

Phil: Regardless of what you do, you have to use this white phosphorus on the enemies that you're seeing before you.

Phil: So you're seeing it from the air using these drones, and then you have to walk through them.

Phil: And you see your enemies, and then you realize that these people were actually US soldiers who had set up a humanitarian camp for civilians.

Phil: And so you basically just killed a bunch of US soldiers who were taking care of a bunch of civilians.

Tom: Very good.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And at that point, the lead protagonist is affected.

Phil: Now, you don't know that, right?

Phil: Further things happen that are more disturbing.

Tom: You do quite know that at the time due to the acting and script.

Phil: Right, the character becomes more agitated, but you don't know that he's hallucinating or seeing things falsely.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: At that point, Conrad starts to communicate with the main character, and the point is that...

Tom: Except, and this is probably not deliberate, but an error.

Tom: I think, at that stage, that was already where I thought it was going because of the setup with the main stage artist was in the helicopter scene around then.

Tom: You know, he puts on classical music, Beethoven, I can't remember what song it was exactly, and starts singing along with it, right?

Tom: Now, this may or may not have been deliberate, but it led me to believe this, not only due to the tone, but it seemed like where the story would be headed considering this due to how over the top and slightly out of sync, out of tone, with how the music had been used before and also the script and speech of a radio man, right?

Phil: Well, in retrospect, I mean, the speech of the radio man is, you know, Good Morning Vietnam and all the rest of it.

Phil: Whenever you're using music in a visual form, it is always overstated.

Phil: You can't, I mean, you're saying, and we're going to play this and this scene because, I mean, you can't help but do it.

Phil: I defy you to make a film and use licensed music and not have it be ham-fisted.

Phil: You can't do it.

Tom: I'm not saying the music was ham-fisted.

Tom: I'm saying what was ham-fisted was him beginning to sing along with it in the way that he did.

Tom: And the point here, though, is that that's not what I'm complaining about.

Tom: What I'm pointing out here is simply that it led me to believe that this was where it was going towards because, one, either, once again, we'd already been getting into his head to a degree that he's going to be going along with this delusion to fan Conrad, right?

Tom: At that state, that was already present.

Tom: So, at that stage, I thought either he was, the guy wasn't actually singing along to the music like that, or, due to the over-the-topness of it, they were then going to, in fact, go to more overtly obvious illustrations of stuff like PTSD using hallucinations and that sort of thing, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, from that point on, like the first part of the game, the protagonist is defending Conrad, saying, don't worry, guys, this looks bad, but when we get to Conrad, he'll have an answer.

Phil: After the White Buster, it flips.

Phil: And the lead protagonist...

Phil: They've got to kill that bastard.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: The main protagonist now, unable to accept that he has become Conrad, he has become this evil person, is now like, we're going to find Conrad and make him pay, right?

Phil: And it's not as black and white as that, or black and white phosphorus as that, but it does start to play out.

Phil: There are...

Phil: That was a disturbing scene, in that you see the mother clasping to the child, for which there's a callback later.

Phil: I think the next most disturbing scene in this is when a...

Phil: Basically, the three of you are doing crowd control, and there's a bunch of civilians who are basically trying to hang one of your friends.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: They haven't even hanged him, or in the process of hanging him.

Phil: Right.

Phil: And you find them, and you basically have the choice of firing a warning shot in the sky.

Phil: And again, this isn't done bullshit like Fable style, or Bioshock style.

Phil: It doesn't say, do you want to shoot in the air, or do you want to shoot the civilians?

Phil: You basically have the choice.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You know you have the choice.

Phil: You're met with a situation, you know, you can fire shots in the air to clear out the area, or you're fucking pissed off and you can take revenge and fucking mow these civilians down.

Tom: See now, here's an interesting point though, because I in fact fired shots in the air and it did nothing.

Phil: No, I've seen the YouTube of this and you can fire shots in the air.

Tom: Did you have to shoot a lot?

Tom: Because that's bizarre.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yeah, you do.

Phil: Because otherwise they don't take you seriously.

Phil: You have to fire like several shots in the air.

Phil: Like you, I fired a couple of, I went bam, bam, bam, like, you know, thinking that would clear them out.

Phil: And when that didn't, I said, well, fuck you guys anyway.

Phil: And I just mowed them down.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: There is an achievement either way.

Phil: So there is a pivotal point where you can choose to kill all the civilians or most of the civilians or fire a warning shot and clear out the area.

Phil: And if you just want-

Tom: I just like to point out, by the way, for anyone listening out there, I in fact killed no one.

Tom: It was all the black guy.

Tom: I shot one person in the knee, then he mowed everyone down.

Phil: No one believes that.

Phil: The next most disturbing thing in the game is when you get to DJ.

Phil: And to me, this one came, this was a monster closet for me.

Phil: This came completely out of the blue.

Phil: Was it for you as well when your compatriot shot the guy in the head?

Phil: No, you were expecting that?

Phil: Really?

Phil: How did they tip that off?

Tom: I don't think they tipped it off.

Tom: I think it was fitting in with the character because at that stage, he'd been getting pretty pissed off as well.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And was really annoyed with the radio man and all that sort of bullshit.

Phil: And there was lots of, keep in mind too, we should tell people that amongst your AI characters, there's lots of over time infighting between the right thing to do, the wrong thing to do.

Phil: And there's a character, different characters are wearing down.

Phil: All characters are wearing down.

Phil: It's just a matter of which way they're biasing.

Phil: That to me was probably the, I mean, you talk about someone, a mother and child with white phosphorus.

Phil: You talk about shooting civilians.

Phil: I was genuinely surprised when he shot that DJ.

Tom: I wasn't, but it was a very well done scene.

Tom: Now.

Phil: After that, there's a helicopter scene.

Tom: I just want to say something on that.

Tom: So here's, first of all, back to the hanging scene, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I thought that really suffered from the lack of budget compared to a high budget game because the civilians looked so unbelievable.

Tom: I mean, you needed to be probably more caught up in the story than I was.

Tom: It would have worked, but as it was, it just looked pretty stupid, right?

Tom: Maybe that was a slight exaggeration.

Phil: I was pretty caught up in the story.

Phil: And again, I'm watching it, remember, on a TV, on a couch from six feet away.

Tom: But here's the other thing about that scene is, I thought, it works out well enough by the end, but I thought it was somewhat of a poor decision to kill Lugo there because after the radio scene, it makes it too obvious that he has to then die within the story before either Walker or the black guy dies, right?

Phil: No, I don't know.

Phil: I mean, I agree with you in retrospect.

Phil: Yes, it does because there's got to be a tit for tat, eye for an eye.

Phil: You know, you got to punish the guy that acted out.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: You know, but I didn't ever really realize that until you...

Phil: It's obvious now that you pointed it out.

Phil: But when you're playing the game, it's like when you're watching a movie, you know, you watch a movie and you're caught up in it.

Phil: And it's only when you're driving home, you're like, eh, wait a second.

Phil: What about that guy in the trench coat, you know?

Phil: So, yeah.

Tom: And one other thing about the white phosphorus scene though, was I thought far more effective than the woman and the child was the fact that they simply had you doing it from the perspective of the drone.

Tom: And...

Phil: Yes.

Tom: But, with that having said though, at the same time, I'm not a fan of that because there's two problems with this.

Tom: One, it is % entirely reliant because they didn't sell it enough for it to work on its own.

Tom: It's entirely reliant on your own perception of this action from other sources of culture.

Phil: Which they specifically...

Phil: The writer specifically said this was a editorial response to the scene in Call of Duty where they give you control over whatever it was.

Phil: I didn't think it was a drone in Call of Duty

Phil: But they said that they took what was the high point of Call of Duty which is you are an all-powerful god dealing out your damage.

Phil: They specifically wanted to show the other side of that.

Tom: Yeah, but my point being here is, and once again this is not a huge criticism of the game, just a personal taste thing, is that's all well and good.

Tom: But if you then link it to the scene with the mother and the child, you then need to sell the previous scene better.

Tom: Because all you're doing is you're copying the scene in Call of Duty, then disingenuously showing the consequences.

Tom: But when it's actually happening, you're not accurately representing the situation.

Tom: And your comment on it, I think-

Phil: What's disingenuous about it?

Tom: I'm about to get to that.

Tom: Your comment on it is perfect, I think.

Tom: You said, and correct me if I'm paraphrasing too much, right?

Tom: I can't remember the wording exactly, but basically, due to controlling a drone, and you're looking down and just shooting people, it's less personal.

Tom: Can you remember how you said it?

Tom: Because you said it a lot better than I did.

Phil: Well, yeah, there's a certain separation there.

Tom: Well, here's the thing, okay?

Phil: Depersonalize it.

Tom: Yeah, in reality, there isn't necessarily.

Tom: That is, as far as I can see, not actually true in reality.

Phil: No, I know.

Tom: Yeah, so this is just a personal tasting.

Phil: I'm pro drone, trust me.

Phil: If it means protecting, you know, people who look like me and speak English like me, against people who wish to do harm against people who look like me and speak like me, I'm all for drones.

Phil: When you put a special ops person on the line who's wearing to thousand dollars of specialty equipment, right?

Phil: And giving him weapons and night vision and all the rest of it.

Phil: And he's shooting, you know, the enemy who has nothing but, you know, an assault rifle from

Phil: You can't tell me that that's any less depersonalized.

Phil: You know?

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: I mean, it's not.

Phil: So I don't know what the larger point here is.

Phil: All I'm saying is that in my prior point and saying that they were trying to, the point that these game developers are trying to make is that, hey, you played Call of Duty therefore you're culpable of war crimes, right?

Phil: That's an invalid point.

Phil: It is invalid because for the rest of the game, you are a guy who's carrying around $worth of military tech, shooting people who have no chance of fighting back against you.

Tom: Are you saying that was my point or their point?

Phil: That's your point and that's my point.

Tom: Okay.

Phil: You know, I'm saying that there is certainly, whenever someone wants to go into Pius Town, as much as the writers of this game did, they're not being anti-war.

Phil: I mean, the overall theme of this isn't anti-war.

Phil: It's more about the consequences of choices, right?

Phil: And that, and delusion.

Phil: Those are the two key themes of this game.

Phil: It's not like, oh, war sucks.

Phil: We shouldn't have games like Call of Duty

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: That's not the point.

Phil: But to put drones on a different level than what a usual Spec Ops person is carrying around, is entirely ridiculous.

Phil: Because basically you're talking about high tech versus low tech.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So your point is valid if I've interpreted correctly.

Tom: Probably about right.

Phil: Have we talked about enough of this game or do we want to spoil the ending too?

Tom: Let's spoil the ending.

Phil: Okay.

Tom: Hold on, wait one second.

Tom: Just the point I've made before was, and back to the choices, which were, and this was tied to the ending, but leading to it better than starting the ending, I think.

Tom: The great thing about the choices, and you can say what you think of this interpretation, my basic interpretation was generally that the point of the choices were to simply show that there was in fact no choice involved, right?

Phil: Right.

Tom: Yeah, which I think is by far thematically the greatest use of any sort of choices in a game.

Phil: Which is also a comment on the role of the...

Phil: If Conrad was...

Phil: If Walker was in the regular military, it's the same thing.

Phil: People in the military have a choice about a huge range of things, but ultimately they don't get to decide how the war is...

Tom: That's right...

Phil: .

Phil: is fought, right?

Phil: And we should say that, okay, so after the White Phosphorus, Walker switches, something in his head switches, and he's like, okay, instead of finding Conrad to explain, we're going to find Conrad and he's going to pay.

Phil: So after the killing of civilians, after the hanging, from that point on, the writer says that the game is completely, not delusional, but from that point on, everything in the game, you can assume that Walker is, gosh, what's the word, dreaming, basically.

Phil: That he's in a haze, right?

Phil: That he starts to lose it at the white flash first.

Phil: Once they shoot the civilians or don't shoot the civilians after his friend is hung because of his action or inaction, he can't really win.

Phil: From that point on, he's completely delusional.

Phil: Now, as it turns out, Conrad is dead.

Phil: Conrad has been dead for several weeks.

Tom: Wait, one second.

Tom: So would you say that is more a comment on war than games?

Phil: A comment on...

Tom: Or just life in general?

Phil: I think it's just more sticking to the source material, Heart of Darkness.

Phil: So basically, at that point...

Tom: So you wouldn't say they're making a statement themselves?

Phil: No, I wouldn't.

Phil: Conrad, at that point, is communicating with Walker.

Phil: And that is all in Conrad's...

Phil: All in Walker's mind.

Phil: So basically, the game culminates with Walker going to the top of this hotel in Dubai to Conrad's suite and speaking with Conrad.

Phil: Conrad's been dead, clearly, for over a month.

Phil: And then they have a quick flashback where they show a series of shots where you see that the walkie-talkie that Walker was using didn't have wires that were connected.

Phil: He was delusional the entire time.

Phil: So when he saw people that were hanging, that were alive, that he wanted to shoot down, they'd been dead for a long time, and on and on and on.

Phil: They basically show you, and this is where your choices do make a difference.

Phil: Based on the choices you made in the game, it affects the still shots they show you in that sequence.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And so at this point you're completely screwed.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So there are at that point two possible endings.

Phil: You can choose to shoot Conrad or you can choose to shoot yourself.

Tom: Well, technically, if you choose to not shoot yourself, then you shoot yourself after the cut scene ends or after the game play ends.

Phil: Right.

Tom: I don't think there's a way.

Tom: So actually, maybe it is possible, in fact, to shoot yourself because there is a mirror image of you present which you can aim at, so.

Phil: You can shoot the mirror, you can shoot Conrad or you can shoot yourself.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Which did you do, by the way?

Phil: So, after the credits roll, basically, we find our hero Walker wearing Conrad's uniform in the middle of the desert, and a Humvee pulls up and they say, hey, we've identified Walker, he's here, right?

Phil: And Walker's brandishing a gun.

Phil: And at this point, you're given a further choice.

Phil: You can drop your weapon.

Phil: I mean, at this point, you're emotionally crushed because the ending of this game, getting up to the top floor of the hotel and finding Conrad, and you're talking to him for a while and he's painting a picture and the pictures of the mother with the child that you killed in the white phosphorus.

Phil: It's so emotionally disjarring.

Phil: I won't say moving, it's disjarring.

Phil: And you get to it and then you're like just shooting and you're not really even sure what you're shooting, you know?

Phil: And now the credits roll and now you're in the desert.

Phil: And a Humvee pulls up and it's a very American, very standard CNN type setting.

Phil: It's like, yeah, we've identified a target, walkers here, blah, blah, blah.

Phil: And they approach him in a cop-like manner, like, are you going to cooperate?

Phil: Are you not?

Phil: And at that point, you have the choice of dropping a weapon, which is what I did.

Phil: And he evacuates with the patrol and as you're driving away, the soldier remarks that the unit's driven through the entire city looking for him, coming across the results of his actions.

Phil: And when asked how he survived, walker says, who said I did?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Tom: See, what happens if you shoot them?

Tom: Is there enough that you can kill them all?

Phil: If walker, you can shoot them.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right.

Phil: And if you die in the fight, you're going to be shown lying in a pool of blood.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And at that point, they flash back to a conversation between walker and Conrad during the prior war in Afghanistan, in Kabul.

Phil: And as the patrol gathers around his dying body, walker remembers talking about returning home and Conrad says, we can't go home, there's a line men like us have to cross.

Phil: If we're lucky, we do what's necessary, then we die.

Phil: Which I think is probably the best ending.

Phil: Of course it is, because the protagonist dies, right?

Tom: Well, he dies in the other one as well.

Phil: Well, if he manages to kill the entire patrol, which is awesome too.

Phil: I mean, what a great tribute to the player that they let you kill all these...

Phil: I mean, you're killing American soldiers throughout the game.

Phil: Most of the people you kill are American soldiers or CIA agents, which is another amazing thing how this game got published.

Phil: But if you're so fucking kick-ass that you do manage to kill the entire patrol, he picks up the radio in their Humvee and calls back to home base and says, gentlemen, I'm walking to Dubai.

Phil: Which is the first thing that we heard from him in the game, and it's the first thing that the dead Conrad said to Walker.

Phil: I mean, that's an ending.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, I'd say the best ending as far as sticking with his character would be him killing himself.

Tom: Because he does realize his actions at the end then, no matter what you do.

Tom: Before that, it had the internal dialogue.

Tom: So considering his character, up to that point, it seemed more fitting that he kills himself there.

Tom: Or at the same time, you could make more of an argument of him then killing the troops at the end.

Tom: But the other one putting the weapon down doesn't seem to fit the character as well to me.

Phil: But it's what I did.

Phil: Is it what you did?

Tom: No.

Tom: What I did was nothing.

Tom: So he killed himself.

Phil: At the end of that game, after that scene with Conrad, I just wanted to go home.

Phil: I didn't care.

Phil: And when you see him in the Vietnam era Conrad uniform, it's just like, take me home.

Phil: I'm done.

Tom: Here's the thing about that choice, though.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: No, keep going.

Tom: Go on.

Tom: I was going to say, that choice and one earlier on where Gul, right, is being held captive, right?

Tom: Now, both those choices, and there might have been another example also, but I can't, these are just good enough examples, didn't work at all as well for me compared to the choices where it wasn't telling you blatantly, this is a choice, you can do this or this, right?

Tom: It just seemed too gamey.

Phil: Well, they never tell you, they never give you an option.

Tom: They do with the good one.

Tom: Do they?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: When he's getting interrogated?

Tom: The black guy is saying, come on, we can go and save the civilians.

Phil: But that's just voice, that's just video.

Tom: But it's the same thing, it's exactly the same thing.

Phil: It's not, it's not the same thing.

Phil: It is.

Phil: It's not, it's not the same as something that comes up and says A or B, press A to do this, press B to do that.

Tom: But it is exactly the same as picking a dialogue option.

Phil: I agree that when you're talking about obvious decisions being there, I knew before I acted at every pivotal point in this game, no, no.

Phil: Yes, in every pivotal point.

Phil: There are many trivial points where they don't signpost it, but in every pivotal point, I knew that I was making a decision, right?

Phil: So like when I did shoot the civilians, I knew that there was...

Phil: Most people wouldn't know there was an option to shoot in the air.

Phil: But because I'm such a freaking hippie, you know, I wanted to not harm these people, right?

Phil: But you're right, they do signpost it.

Tom: Well, that's the thing.

Phil: It's a game.

Tom: It's a game.

Tom: It's an interactive game.

Phil: You're interacting.

Tom: Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

Tom: But see, it's not so much the signposting, it's when they signpost it and there's nothing else as well.

Tom: So, for example, the civilian scene.

Tom: It implies that you've got two choices right.

Tom: Shoot them or just wait around and die, basically.

Phil: Honestly, I didn't have a choice.

Phil: I had to wreak vengeance.

Phil: I was so pissed off that I knew it was wrong, but it felt good.

Tom: But there's a point.

Tom: They're okay.

Tom: So you then got the third option of shooting in the air.

Tom: So it then feels like you could have actually done anything.

Tom: And the other good example of that is where they've got the two guys hanging, right, and you've got to choose which one to shoot.

Tom: Now, of course, you don't have to choose which one to shoot.

Tom: You can also kill the snipers, which then results in everyone getting killed.

Tom: But whatever, the point is that sign posted like a game, that says, you can do this or you can do this, right?

Tom: But there's also this third option that you can do.

Tom: Then, though, the thing I mentioned, and once again, if anyone out there is listening, that has found a different way to approach this, please tell us.

Tom: There is literally only those two options.

Tom: So, and this is not going to be a problem in most games.

Tom: I'm not saying this is particularly badly done.

Tom: What I'm saying is that it does not fit with the choices elsewhere and how they are done.

Tom: It's jarring because it is telling you the two things you can do.

Tom: Elsewhere, it tells you the three things you can do, but in reality, there's actually another thing you can do.

Tom: Right?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Now, the final thing, though, is...

Tom: I don't know if you found this as well.

Tom: This game, for example, the singing along with the music, struggled so badly when they tried to be over the top and more overt in its themes.

Tom: So the thing that just absolutely pissed me off was the messages they give you on loading screens.

Tom: Now, a lot of them were fine.

Tom: A lot of them were great and amusing and accurate parodies of the stuff Call of Duty has you read on loading screens, right?

Phil: So, for example, for our listeners, one of the ones is, how many Americans did you kill today?

Tom: Yeah, that was hilarious.

Phil: So this is when you're loading up a screen and usually they have a helpful hint, right?

Phil: And the helpful hint is, have you tried using Molotov cocktails against zombie characters?

Phil: Right?

Phil: That's what you're used to seeing.

Phil: So at a certain point in the game they switch to giving you these more, quote, subversive messages.

Phil: Your point is they're over the top, right?

Tom: Some of them, not all of them.

Tom: I've got two examples which are just so stupid.

Tom: And this is the reason that at times I couldn't go completely along with the story, but there are times where they're great.

Tom: For example, how many Americans have you killed today?

Tom: That was hilarious, right?

Tom: Then there were these two, and these were just major facepalms to me.

Tom: The first one was after Lugo was killed.

Tom: If Lugo was alive, he'd probably have post-traumatic stress disorder.

Tom: So really, he's the lucky one.

Tom: Now, first of all...

Phil: I never got that one, incidentally.

Tom: Well, they are randomized, presumably, to a degree.

Phil: Presumably, I don't know.

Tom: But yeah, that has been literally demonstrated, but with a degree of minor subtlety in the story.

Tom: That's just an immersion killer to me.

Tom: It's just so incredibly unnecessary.

Phil: I agree.

Phil: Loading screens are immersion killing to start with, and I found even the ones that were, quote, clever, I just thought they were too clever by half.

Phil: It was too cute.

Phil: It was too dumb.

Phil: And, you know, hey, a game can't be perfect.

Tom: Here's the worst one, though.

Tom: The US military does not condone the killing of our land combatants, but this isn't real, so why do you care?

Tom: Now...

Phil: I never got that one either.

Tom: Well, first of all, did you spot the problem with this paragraph?

Tom: Though maybe this was deliberate.

Phil: The US?

Tom: No.

Phil: Army?

Tom: Presumably, it was making a subversive statement about the game itself, right?

Tom: Why would you care, first of all, who you were killing in a game?

Tom: And secondly, but more to the point, by saying that, should you care who you're shooting in a game and if you're shooting anyone in a game, right?

Tom: No?

Phil: No.

Tom: What do you think then?

Phil: No, I agree with you.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: I mean, it's pixel on pixel violence.

Phil: It doesn't do anything.

Tom: But, therefore the first part is rather irrelevant to the point.

Tom: If they were to reverse it the other way to the US military does kill unarmed combatants full stop, but this isn't real, so why do you care?

Tom: I think that would work perfectly.

Tom: Because not only does it make a statement you would not expect to see randomly on a loading screen, right?

Tom: Because it's got the interesting linking of the two statements, it could also be interpreted as is this in fact saying that the US military does not kill unarmed combatants, i.e.

Tom: this is not real?

Tom: Which I think perhaps they were going for with how they set out the paragraph, but due to saying the US military does not, I think they needed the stronger punch of coming out with it to begin with.

Phil: You know, it's a cool idea.

Phil: Basically, they should have only had three that were very strong and then randomised them into regular tooltips.

Phil: But I found that overall to be heavy handed, ham fisted, to me it took me out of the game and I just sort of was being too clever by half.

Phil: I mean, does the US kill unarmed combatants?

Phil: I mean, sure they do.

Phil: They kill people on death row all the time.

Phil: We, I'm an American as well as an Australian, we kill people on death row all the time.

Phil: They're not particularly armed when we give them a lethal injection or put them in an electric chair.

Phil: So, I mean, at a certain point, like I said earlier in the podcast, I'm a vegetarian, so I don't see the difference between killing a whale and killing a cow.

Phil: So, when it comes down to killing people, you know, it's a whole...

Tom: I wouldn't eat them.

Phil: I wouldn't eat a dead Iraqi.

Phil: That's the bucks quote I want for...

Tom: Yeah, that's our summation of...

Phil: Game Under...

Phil: Game Under Podcast.

Phil: All right, we're going to move on to news, and we do appreciate you listening this far deep into the podcast.

Tom: And by the way, for the record, I very much like Spec Ops.

Phil: Thank you.

Phil: I mean, it is a good game, is it not?

Phil: And thank me, because I made the game.

Tom: It's basically the mainstream papo of yodemy.

Phil: It is a...

Tom: A game I cannot bear to give a high score.

Tom: I give this a six out of ten, but at the same time, I would never claim that I did not love it as well.

Phil: And perhaps if you had played it on the console, you know, you would have even creeped into liking it a heck of a lot more.

Tom: Maybe you would have got a .

Phil: Well, we thank our listeners for listening to The Game Under Podcast with Tom Towers and Phil Fogg.

Phil: We're going to cut into the news now, and all news in this section is provided by thevgpress.com.

Phil: I'll start off with this, and hopefully you've given us some thought, but all Grand Theft Auto tracks are now available on Spotify for streaming in the US.

Tom: And don't use Spotify, by the way.

Tom: Continue.

Phil: And iTunes.

Phil: So my deck for this story, because at thevgpress.com you can write your own news, was Rush Rush Gimme Yayo, which was a song from Scarface.

Phil: I mean, the first Grand Theft Auto stole heavily from Scarface in terms of its soundtrack.

Phil: My favorite songs, I mean, Rush Rush Gimme Yayo is a great song.

Phil: I love the Russian station, Vladivostok.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Vladivostok in Grand Theft Auto was my absolute favorite station.

Phil: I couldn't get enough of Vladivostok.

Tom: You know what, though, I was disappointed in that.

Tom: They should have had a serving station devoted to TurboFolk.

Tom: And it is some left of Brenner.

Phil: I don't even know what TurboFolk is, but just by your description, TurboFolk, I'm in.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: It probably is like polka, speed polka.

Phil: Is that what it is?

Tom: It's traditional Yugoslavian pop, folk singing with pop music.

Tom: It's awesome.

Phil: That's great.

Phil: And then in Liberty City Stories, the PlayStation it was a PSP game that they put in the PlayStation

Phil: It was a Bollywood station that I absolutely loved.

Tom: That is awesome.

Phil: But unfortunately, because of the PSP, it had a very limited range of songs.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Because they're limited to the UMD.

Phil: Do you have any favorite GTA tracks?

Tom: I'll go game by game of what I played, of the ones I played.

Tom: Grand Theft Auto can't say a song, but all the talk back radio shows on that were the best in the series.

Phil: You know what?

Phil: When you said Grand Theft Auto I started thinking of the Electronica stations.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And I think about when I was driving around in night, and they had those light particle effects.

Phil: The songs just come to mind so incredibly vividly.

Phil: And the talk stations, yeah, with Lazlo.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: We're a great insight into American talk radio.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I think that three had by far the best talk shows on it.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Vice City, Welcome to the Jungle.

Tom: That to me is the most perfect song on the game for when you're deliberately attempting to get to the high star rating.

Tom: It's just perfect.

Tom: I mean, I know it's not as synonymous with the overall aesthetic of the game.

Phil: No, it's not.

Tom: It's just perfect for cop chases.

Phil: Well, it's a perfect song.

Phil: Breaking the Law is the perfect song.

Phil: I don't think that's ever been in any sort of video, a GTA game.

Phil: In fact, it hasn't been in any GTA game.

Tom: So we can make that sound.

Phil: But any Guns N Roses song you want to pick is perfect, really, for any situation, in my view.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Oh, and also, special mention to the Slick Rick song.

Phil: Which one's that?

Tom: Was it children's?

Tom: Sorry, I can't remember which Slick Rick song it was, but there's definitely a Slick Rick song on there, which I listen to a lot.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, our listeners will know what that means.

Tom: And you don't even know who Slick Rick is.

Tom: Tell me you're joking.

Phil: Uh, Citrix?

Phil: It's a...

Phil: Slick Rick.

Phil: Oh, Slick Rick!

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Phil: I think you're saying Citrix, which is a remote access client for Windows.

Tom: No.

Tom: So I think we're up to San Andreas and...

Tom: Oh.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, you've got to go for...

Tom: I can't remember which songs they were in particular, but obviously you cannot choose anything but an EZE or Anti-We Way song.

Tom: God.

Phil: That soundtrack on San Andreas, I just used to drive around.

Phil: I used to...

Phil: Axl Rose DJ'd their classic Rock Station.

Phil: Oh, man.

Phil: What a soundtrack.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And then the hip hop on that is just brilliant.

Phil: It's the kind of game in an iTunes era would never get licensing.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Like these days, you'd never get the soundtrack that they got for San Andreas.

Tom: It's the Paul's Boutique of video game soundtracks.

Tom: Oh, it's brilliant.

Phil: Impossible.

Tom: So GTA IV, once I got to go with Vladivostok as well.

Tom: You can't forget that.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I love it.

Phil: There's my favorite song on Vladivostok radio.

Phil: The baseline of it is the call of the Pied Magpie, which is an Australian bird, commonly known as the Peewee.

Phil: But there is a song that has a baseline that is based on an Australian bird.

Phil: And it is so clearly...

Phil: That is so clearly what it is.

Phil: And it's maddening to me because it's like...

Phil: Anyway, I love Vladivostok radio.

Phil: So is that where our GTA IV favorite song ends?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: I'd just like to once again reiterate, nobody use Spotify, please.

Tom: Thank you.

Phil: Yeah, because it rips off artists.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: They get like a tenth of a penny per thousand plays.

Tom: Not quite that much.

Tom: Don't be silly.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Well, what's our next story?

Tom: Our next story is the EU release of brain training.

Tom: It was pulled days before release and there has been no reason given.

Tom: You have no new release date.

Phil: This is classic.

Phil: I mean, there's no information beyond the headline on this.

Phil: Clearly, this was an insensitive cultural reference.

Phil: This game has been released in Japan.

Phil: And they're going to bring it out on, let's say on Friday in Europe.

Phil: And on Tuesday, they recall all copies of the game and say it's not coming out.

Phil: It will be coming out later.

Phil: And there's no reason given.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: This is clearly going to be an insensitive cultural reference.

Phil: There's no other reason.

Phil: And unless it's a technical glitch, but I mean, you know, the game was released in Japan and worked fine and all the rest of it.

Phil: I'm assuming they call French people like cheese fuckers or something, you know?

Phil: Or British people like inbred, chinless fuckwits.

Phil: You know?

Phil: Because you know how much the Japanese hate like every other culture, like the most racist people on the planet.

Phil: You know?

Phil: It has to be something insanely racist that got by all QA until a British person was playing this and like, what is this about?

Phil: Yeah, right, someone at Eurogames is like, what the fuck?

Phil: You know?

Phil: They call up Nintendo and go, you might want to know about this.

Phil: In English, this means something distinctly different from what you think it does.

Phil: It's the only explanation, right?

Tom: Yeah, so what you're saying is they pulled it from the least to remove the best part about the game.

Phil: Of course.

Phil: I mean, Microsoft has done this before with any game that has an inconsequential Muslim reference gets pulled.

Phil: Microsoft had that fighting game that got pulled because of that.

Phil: The first cut of Aladdin was retracted because of that.

Phil: Things like that.

Tom: So technically they did give a reason, by the way.

Tom: And this was...

Tom: Nintendo has made the decision to push back the release date of Dr.

Tom: Kawashima's devilish brain training, can you say, focused for Nintendo DS to optimize the best possible launch timing of this title within the European market.

Phil: Fuckhead, I've read the same article as you.

Phil: That's not a reason.

Tom: It is.

Tom: It's their fake PR reason.

Tom: They pushed it back so that they can release it at a better date.

Phil: I'm not saying it's a genuine reason.

Tom: That is a lie.

Tom: I'm saying they gave a reason.

Phil: Alright.

Phil: That's not a reason.

Phil: Oh, we were going to bring it on Friday, but we want to optimize our release.

Tom: Well, that was my point, if you were paying attention.

Phil: Well, your point is pointless.

Phil: Speaking of pointless, a former BioWare boss has said, quote, Jade Empire would have been a massive launch game.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Now, have you played Jade Empire?

Tom: Yes, I have.

Phil: It's Jade Empire, not a massive...

Tom: No.

Phil: You know, first of all...

Tom: Code War might have been massive.

Phil: Code War would have been massive.

Phil: Jade Empire was a wank of BioWare, where they basically, like...

Phil: They did the Star Wars licensing for a game.

Phil: They let Obsidian do the sequel, and Jade Empire was always a dream of theirs to do.

Phil: And they basically had the money to do it, so they did it, you know.

Phil: And they released it, and I played it, and it was shit.

Tom: It was awesome.

Tom: What are you talking about?

Phil: It was shit.

Phil: It was shit like all Bioware games are shit.

Phil: It was completely unbalanced.

Tom: So as long as you're not saying it was shitter than Kotor.

Phil: Oh, no.

Phil: No, no, no, no.

Phil: You know, like Mass Effect was shit.

Phil: The first Mass Effect game was shit, so the same way Jade Empire was shit.

Tom: So it was shit and awesome, is what you're saying.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: It was like a luxury car, like a Ferrari.

Phil: You know, you know all these high-end luxury cars, right?

Phil: You know, like I got a new Ferrari the other day, for example.

Phil: And they look great.

Phil: They have great engines, but the windows leak.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You know?

Phil: That's a Bioware game where they overstretch on the big things and they don't pay attention to the details necessarily.

Tom: So what you're saying is you should have got a Mercedes.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Something that's, you know, reliable and proven and they...

Phil: If you have to make, you know, a couple hundred thousand of something, it's going to be good.

Phil: But my point is, this is ridiculous.

Phil: This guy's saying, oh, it would have been a massive launch title.

Phil: Well, yeah.

Phil: You know, any RPG that comes out at launch is going to be massive because there aren't that many RPGs at a launch usually because they do take a heck of a lot of resources and time and everything else, you know, to develop.

Phil: This is a silly thing to say.

Phil: It was probably a question he was asked.

Phil: He was probably just answering.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I still question whether it would have been that massive, maybe compared to other launch games, but...

Phil: Well, look at Perfect Dark, whatever that was called, right?

Phil: Perfect Dark Zero, right?

Phil: That was a massive launch.

Phil: Why?

Phil: Because it was, you know...

Tom: But Perfect Dark also has the Perfect Dark name.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: Jade Empire was never massive at all.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: And the other thing is everyone knows...

Phil: And I'm not being flippant here.

Phil: Asian lead characters don't sell in the West.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, prove me wrong out there.

Phil: Sleeping Dogs is probably the closest we've got.

Phil: And hopefully this is changing.

Phil: But up until this point, games that aren't set in the US and games that have non-white characters don't necessarily sell.

Tom: I think more to the point, as Japan has proven, Asian characters also don't sell in Japan.

Phil: Oh, really?

Phil: I mean, Yakuza sells pretty good in Japan.

Tom: There's Yakuza, but nothing else.

Phil: Well, next in the news, iFixit tears down their Oculus Rift.

Phil: Basically, they got this virtual reality goggle set and they broke it down.

Phil: There's nothing really more to it than the pictures.

Phil: But basically, it's a cheap processor and a cheap video card.

Phil: It has two monitors inside of ski goggles.

Tom: Sounds like it.

Phil: I mean, apparently it works fine.

Phil: Everyone who played it at Elast year pre-ordered a set.

Phil: I think, virtual reality, first of all, what's your take on it?

Phil: What's your take on this whole goggle thing?

Tom: I cannot imagine that I would be able to use it.

Tom: I imagine my eyes would literally melt if I attempted it.

Phil: Yeah, well, I can't even play the DS.

Phil: I mean, like, I'm famous for having only played my DS at this point for seven minutes.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And I haven't played it.

Phil: I haven't touched it since.

Phil: I think it's a complete piece of shit.

Phil: I have the XL, I should note.

Phil: That's why it's a piece of shit because it's too heavy and the larger screens overpixelate images.

Tom: So it's not fault entirely.

Phil: And the D is a joke.

Phil: In fact, the D film over the top screen ruins what would otherwise be a nice screen.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I just wanted to say, if you hate it so much, you're welcome to send it to me.

Phil: Well, actually, unfortunately, the little lady is playing Disgaea on it.

Tom: Damn.

Tom: So she's never going to be finished with it.

Phil: It's manacled to her wrist.

Phil: She's played it over hours as it is.

Tom: And she's got about left.

Phil: So what I'm thinking is, like, virtual reality me, I've never gotten it.

Phil: I've never gotten the appeal of it.

Phil: I don't think the holodeck is within our reach.

Phil: For someone who's younger than me, like yourself, is virtual reality an appeal to you?

Tom: Virtual reality as in the form of holodeck would be interesting.

Tom: Otherwise, I don't see the point of it.

Tom: It basically simply boils down to motion controls and tracking with your head instead of...

Tom: It seems ultimately pointless in that form.

Tom: But if it's something like a holodeck, I don't know, that's more interesting.

Phil: Yeah, but we're not there.

Phil: I mean, it's like time travel, right?

Tom: In this form, it just seems...

Tom: If you've got a lot of money just to waste on random stuff to see how it is, it might be interesting, but it doesn't seem as if it would have a lasting appeal beyond that.

Phil: It just seems like a really expensive sex toy.

Phil: Is that, okay, so you're going to spend how much and you're going to go to what limits to achieve this when you could just use what people have been using for the last millennia to get to the same point?

Phil: I think virtual reality appeals to the same generation of people who thought that multimedia was going to be the next big thing.

Phil: When CDs came out, I'm just slightly younger than that and so I'm like, I don't get it.

Phil: And so I was interested to see if anyone else gets what the Oculus Rift is going for.

Phil: I don't want to put snow goggles on my head to play a game that's going to make me nauseous.

Tom: Yeah, same here.

Phil: In other news, PC shipments post the biggest quarterly decline on record and a lot of people are blaming Windows for this.

Phil: Windows is a complete, I'm using Windows

Phil: And basically Windows is two things.

Phil: It's Windows and then they've added their phone interface to the front of it, which gets in the way of your normal operation of Windows

Phil: Using third-party software, freeware, you can download it so that you never have to see Windows you know, the Metro style stuff, which is completely useless.

Phil: But I don't think Windows is the reason for the decline in PC sales.

Phil: I don't think the average guy who has an old computer who walks into a big box store is saying, oh, I'll hold off for Windows because it's only going to get worse.

Tom: Well, I mean, to me, the logical reason behind it is the fact that, first of all, saturation of PCs is eventually going to go beyond the rising population, right?

Tom: So at some stage you'd be expecting it to naturally decline anyway.

Tom: Apart from that, my PC was bought in right?

Tom: Now, it was not high-end then.

Tom: It was designed to be as powerful as possible with spending the least amount of money.

Tom: So it was comparable to high-end tech, but wasn't high-end, right?

Tom: It's now, what, five years later, and apart from the fact that I can play any game presently released at perfectly reasonable settings and at a reasonable resolution, I'm also easily able to use basically any intensive software.

Tom: Since dual-core and quad-core processors have been released, basically even cheaper PCs from a long time ago are perfectly capable of doing pretty much everything.

Tom: This did not used to be the case, as far as I can remember.

Phil: Well, Moir's lore has been doubled because of quad-core processors and dual-core processors and all the rest of it.

Phil: So the advancements in software can't keep up with the hardware, which we've known for about four years now.

Tom: Which is logically then going to result in people buying less PCs because they don't need to replace their old one.

Phil: Right, right.

Phil: And more solid-state parts so you don't have wear and tear.

Tom: Upgrading is much easier as well.

Phil: Upgrading is much easier.

Phil: And everything is going towards more uniformity.

Phil: I mean, we're seeing that in the console market too.

Phil: You know, if everyone is using off-the-shelf parts.

Tom: And of course, there's also the more powerful mobile devices as well which people can use in place of a PC.

Tom: Or would they be factoring those sales into this?

Phil: No, they don't factor those sales into it.

Phil: And that's largely what they're saying.

Phil: I mean, since I got a smartphone, like a little Samsung Galaxy S, you know, I'm turning on my computer less because I can check my email, I can check on vgpress.com, I can check the weather, I can check sports scores without going to my computer.

Phil: And, you know, even more so if someone has a tablet.

Phil: I was at Oldby today and they have a $Android -inch tablet, you know.

Phil: And but for the fact that I spent several hundred dollars this week on various things, I would have bought that.

Tom: Just faulty microwaves?

Phil: Well, faulty microwaves or, you know, what's that?

Tom: Domain names.

Phil: Game Under.

Phil: Game under.net.

Phil: You know, I would have bought that without hesitation.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And that would have basically turned my PC into a thing that I go to when I want to type into the VGpress or when I want to play games.

Phil: Right?

Tom: So what does it become APS?

Phil: Which is what, or a PS Vita, you know.

Phil: And that's what's killed sites like GameSpot from their heyday is that people are viewing the content now on non-interactive formats.

Phil: You're right.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And they're getting their social itch scratched from, you know, Facebook and things like that.

Phil: I mean, this is just the way it's going to be.

Phil: PCs are going to decline.

Phil: Who wants to buy a monitor and a keyboard and a big old box when most people can just browsing the web and they're not contributing?

Phil: The way that we and the people of the VGpress do, right?

Phil: So most people are more than happy just to sit back and just take in what other people are consuming.

Phil: Listeners, we love you.

Tom: The anonymous many.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Moving on.

Tom: The last news story I believe is that the Metroid devs were working on a Bomberman first person shooter.

Phil: What do you mean the Metroid devs?

Phil: The guys in Austin?

Tom: What?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: For Konami, but aren't they owned by Nintendo?

Tom: No, they're working on it for Capcom, not Konami.

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

Phil: Obviously.

Phil: Kinji Inafune, Capcom.

Tom: Right.

Phil: I'm confused because the ridiculousness of the screenshots I saw from that French video.

Phil: Correction.

Tom: Presumably this was under a different company.

Tom: It was ex-Metroid devs, sorry.

Phil: Okay, okay.

Phil: Of which there are

Tom: That's right.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Oh, yeah, I worked there.

Phil: I worked there.

Phil: Yeah, okay, good.

Phil: So, it's not retro.

Phil: These screenshots reminded me of Bomberman Act Zero, which was an early Xbox game.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Which took the sprite-based Bomberman that everyone loved and turned him into this, just one of the worst video games of all time.

Tom: And just to correct myself before, yes, that was a Mega Man, that game they were working on, not Bomberman.

Tom: Did you watch any of the videos?

Phil: No.

Phil: I just saw the screens.

Tom: It looks like any other sort of Corridor of Fury.

Tom: Obviously, this was very early gameplay, so you can't judge if it was going to be a good game or not by that.

Tom: But there was one interesting thing about the gameplay that I saw, which was there's sections where he's basically falling from the sky, right, which seemed % taken straight from MDK and MDK which were very iconic scenes from those two games.

Tom: It's both games loaded with that and are famous for those two scenes.

Phil: I mean, the game doesn't exist, right?

Phil: I mean, you're not moving forward with it.

Tom: It's been canned.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So that's basically the only interesting thing about it was that it may have been influenced by MDK.

Phil: A defunct game made by Interplay, a defunct studio.

Phil: You know, you have to think that when you look at these Mega Man games, which have, you know, turns them into this D shooter or these Bomberman games that do the same, it's a fundamental failure of Japan to understand the Western market.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Which brings us to our feature this week, which is talking about Square Enix.

Phil: Square was, at a certain point during the s, a publisher that could bring out any game and it would garner attention, just on the basis that it was a Square game.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Obviously, these days, that's far different.

Phil: And in fact, if you look at the games that are garnering attention in the West, they're mostly games that are being released under the Eidos label, which was a recent acquisition by them.

Phil: Square recently made the news because during a financial briefing, they said, you know, we're basically changing our projection from a huge profit to a huge loss because when we look at the games we were releasing in the West, Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs and Tomb Raider, they underperformed.

Phil: And this is shocking to everyone because other than Hitman Absolution, obviously didn't hit.

Phil: That's because it's a dead franchise that had a niche following to start with.

Tom: Yeah, and the reboot was going to appeal to the fans that were there already that much either.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: Yep, it was a complete travesty and undercutting of the fans of the original franchise.

Phil: Sleeping Dogs was a game that was dragged out of the dumpster and is a brilliant game.

Phil: When you get around to playing this game, you're going to love it.

Phil: I mean, it's basically stealing the best elements of Yakuza and applying a western pastiche to it, if you will.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Tomb Raider you've played.

Phil: You were generally impressed with it.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: I can't wait to play it.

Phil: It seems like it's uncharted.

Phil: It's probably going to be the best uncharted game release this generation.

Tom: Have you seen if it's on Beacon Service?

Phil: Well, that's pretty narrow for this podcast.

Phil: We'll find out.

Phil: And the bottom line, we'll find out.

Phil: I'll talk about that later.

Phil: But basically they have these two phenomenal games, Sleeping Dogs and Tomb Raider.

Phil: And they're basically saying, oh, well, the reason why our stock is going to underperform and why we lost all this money is because all these western games we're releasing aren't selling as well as we expected.

Phil: Now, this is the same company that took the biggest franchise in Japan, Dragon Quest, and turned it into an MMO for the slowest selling console at the point that Dragon Quest was released.

Tom: Right?

Phil: They released an MMO on the Wii, which required a monthly fee.

Tom: Right?

Phil: Which was also time limited.

Phil: Like, there was a certain amount of time.

Phil: It doesn't matter.

Phil: But basically, and it sold in the hundreds of thousands, then they released the Wii U version and it sold like

Tom: Right?

Phil: Basically, they took the premier Japanese video game and flushed it down the toilet.

Phil: Right?

Phil: They could have released it for the DS.

Phil: They could have released it for the DS.

Phil: They could have not made it in MMO.

Phil: They could have not charged a monthly fee.

Phil: They could have released it in the West, which they still haven't.

Phil: And they flushed it down the toilet.

Phil: And I think this is just pure Japanese ethnocentricity that they're going to Japanese investors and saying, oh, well, we were going to make money, but we're totally not now because all these Western games for those Western gaijin aren't selling that well.

Phil: Right?

Phil: So we go, okay, Tomb Raider sold something like million.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Terrible sales.

Phil: million.

Tom: Terrible.

Phil: Oh, well, we were expecting it to sell five and six.

Phil: This is clearly stock market bullshit.

Phil: Right?

Phil: They said that Hitman had the potential to sell million.

Phil: Right?

Tom: How?

Tom: Have all the previous Hitman entries even sold that amount?

Tom: Put together?

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Absolutely not.

Phil: If you look at the fastest selling games, the biggest launches in gaming history, right?

Phil: For example, Halo

Phil: Pretty big, right?

Phil: Pretty big.

Tom: Very big.

Phil: million.

Phil: Right?

Tom: So Tomb Raider beat it.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto

Phil: Pretty big, right?

Phil: million.

Tom: So Tomb Raider beat it.

Phil: Brawl.

Phil: Halo

Phil: million.

Phil: million.

Phil: PSOne.

Phil: PSOne.

Phil: PSOne.

Phil: PSOne.

Phil: PlayStation and DS combined.

Tom: And they're complaining.

Phil: Not DS, sorry.

Phil: I'm mistaken.

Phil: It was just PlayStation

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: PlayStation

Phil: And then obviously these have been eclipsed since.

Phil: Go ahead and tell us the more recent update.

Tom: Call of Duty Black Ops oversold.

Phil: The biggest game in the world.

Tom: It sold million copies in a single day.

Phil: Right.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And they thought that Tomb Raider would sell million in its first month compared to Call of Duty Black Ops

Tom: But when you put it like that, perhaps they were onto something.

Phil: Every mouth breathing or nose breathing citizen of the western world that speaks English bought Call of Duty Black Ops

Phil: Right?

Phil: It sold million copies in its first day.

Phil: Halo pretty big, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Halo again Tomb Raider in its first month, million.

Phil: Halo in its first month, million.

Phil: They were expecting million in the first month.

Phil: They were expecting Tomb Raider to outsell Halo in its first month.

Tom: Yeah, it's mind boggling.

Phil: It's not mind boggling.

Phil: Well, the good news is that the Square Enix is getting a new boss.

Phil: Yoichi Wada was fired and a new guy is in, Yasuki Masuda, and he basically says that the good news about what he's at least claiming is that he's going to look at their business and assets on a zero-based budgeting standpoint, which means that from this point forward, everyone has to justify their existence to, in terms of producing their money, which means we're not going to produce a Dragon Quest MMO just because you're Dragon Quest.

Phil: You're going to have to show us that this works.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: With that, we're moving on to what's happening at The VG Press and LaserLamming.

Phil: The reason why we bring these two sites up is thevgpress.com is where we go as a, you know, it's where we go to connect with the gaming community.

Phil: And it's a great site.

Phil: And LaserLamming is your patron for your published reviews.

Phil: Correct.

Phil: laserlamming.com.

Phil: So what's going on over there?

Tom: So, for this installment of what's happening at the VG Press, we're going to look at Dvader's thread in which he lists games in his backlog and asks users to vote for what he's going to play.

Tom: So, for example, for his first one, he lists the Super Meat Boy, Kirby's Epic Yarn and the original Sly Cooper.

Tom: He went on...

Phil: Which would you have picked?

Tom: I think I picked the original Sly Cooper.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Which would you have picked?

Phil: I would have picked the original Sly Cooper, but they have camera controls that are inverse, both horizontal and vertical, that cannot be changed.

Phil: So, knowing that he's a fan of D platformers, I would have gone with Super Meat Boy.

Tom: Well, I say it's true what he wants to play.

Tom: But neither of those won.

Tom: Kirby's Epic Yarn was the winner, which he hated, by the way.

Tom: Well, rather he thought it was incredibly boring and no challenge.

Phil: So, he could have called it Kirby Epic Yarn.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: Well, he did say put him to sleep, literally, on several occasions.

Tom: Now, in the next one, and I'm sure as you can tell by these most have a theme, so the first one was platforming, the second one is open world games and the list was Saints Row Sleeping Dogs, Just Cause Bully, Assassin's Creed Revelations and Crackdown

Tom: Now, apart from the fact that you wanted to play Bully, I can guess that your choice would otherwise have been Saints Row

Phil: Yeah, walking away with it.

Phil: Sleeping, if I wanted to be sympathetic, I'd say Sleeping Dogs is brilliant and it would be more mind expanding, but no, Saints Row Home and Away, wins.

Tom: Yeah, well, I went for Bully and once again he hated it.

Tom: So moving on, the next is horror theme.

Tom: The options were Silent Hill, Homecoming, Silent Hill, Downpour, The Thing, Dead Island and Deadly Premonition.

Tom: I believe you went for Deadly Premonition?

Tom: Or no, you didn't?

Phil: No, I didn't.

Tom: But would have.

Phil: I was going to join him in playing The Thing with him.

Phil: Deadly Premonition.

Phil: It was too slow.

Phil: Everyone has to play Deadly Premonition.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Everyone.

Tom: I went for The Thing, it's the only one that I played and by played I mean I wandered around in the snow for a while.

Tom: And once again he hated it.

Tom: He enjoyed it at first, then it apparently turned into a terrible, terrible shooter.

Phil: I enjoyed it at first until I got lost in the snow and ran out of oxygen.

Phil: I thought The Thing was atmospherically superior, but gameplay suffered.

Phil: I still want to...

Tom: Can't I enjoy wandering around in the snow?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So the next one was third person shooters, oh sorry, just shooters in general.

Tom: First option was Gears of War then Max Payne Bullet Storm, Crisis Rage and Resistance

Phil: Now...

Phil: I've played all these but for Crisis and Resistance

Tom: I think I can guess your choices again.

Phil: Um...

Phil: Oh yeah, of course, Bullet Storm.

Tom: Bullet Storm.

Tom: I on the other hand went for what I imagine would have been your last choice, which is Rage.

Phil: Horrible game.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: The worst game in the...

Phil: I think it was the lowest rated game I played last year.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, see, I wanted the...

Tom: success rate of games you hated to continue.

Tom: So I thought that would be the highest chance of it happening.

Tom: But given the quality, seeming quality of many of the games he's played, perhaps that would be the case.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, Bulletstorm is great.

Phil: I would otherwise have recommended Max Payne because that is a great game also.

Phil: Gears of War I beat this year, I have no memory of it.

Phil: I beat it like a month ago.

Phil: It's just one of those games that you play and have no memory of.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Other than it was perhaps too long, and I have Resistance in a stack yet to play.

Tom: No interesting Crisis ?

Tom: Ah, sorry.

Phil: I'm going to play the Crisis games.

Phil: I got them on Steam.

Phil: When I get to them, I get to them.

Phil: So no priority there.

Phil: I don't have any affinity for them at this point.

Tom: I can vouch for the original and its expansion.

Tom: They're both great.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, you know, as I said, I'm going to get to them eventually, but I can vouch personally for Bulletstorm and Max Payne

Tom: I would actually say...

Phil: Max Payne is brilliant.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I need to get to it.

Tom: I enjoyed the demo of the first two Max Paynes.

Tom: There is basically no backward shooting.

Tom: In Crysis sorry, Crysis, you can basically play it exactly as you would Doom, which is sprinting throughout the entire level as quickly as you can and shooting everything and not even daring to take a backward step.

Tom: Whereas in Serious Sam, you are often forced into that.

Tom: So look forward to it.

Phil: But before we go into what's going on at laserlabming.com, anything else on Dvader's poll here?

Tom: And this is relevant only to regulars of thevgpress.com now.

Tom: Is it my imagination or recently has he seemed to be a lot harsher on the games he's playing?

Phil: He's never been one to give out s or even s.

Phil: I think this is just a...

Tom: He's given out a lot of s.

Phil: I think this is...

Phil: Yeah, you're right.

Phil: I think this is a consequence of just beating plus games a year.

Phil: At a certain point, nothing is new.

Phil: And I've been that way for the last few years where I've averaged games beaten a year, where at a certain point you're just playing games just to see what people's take on a genre is as opposed to playing it, expecting it to be fun.

Phil: It just becomes an academic exercise.

Tom: A gradual change, though?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: I think there would be certainly a tipping point.

Tom: Okay, because it seems sudden to me.

Tom: I mean, pre-Tomb Raider release, he seemed as enthusiastic as ever.

Tom: Then Tomb Raider came out and the first impressions were generally mostly negative, though he ended up enjoying it.

Phil: I think also he's brought into the group thing of the generation has gone too long.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So, you know, rather than going into an experience, when you buy a console at launch, it's like...

Tom: You love everything.

Phil: You love everything.

Phil: This is great.

Phil: Blue Stinger is great.

Phil: You know, Pilotwings is great.

Phil: Oh my God, this is awesome.

Phil: And so was Blue Stinger.

Tom: True.

Phil: So, you know, so you go into it wanting to be convinced otherwise.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: At this point in the generation, he's not for me because I'm still playing, well, he is too.

Phil: You know, we're playing these old games and it's just like I go into it, he's, you know, I think he's going into it going, yeah, show me something different.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: To the point, he's also been burnt because he has a Vita, a Wii U and a DS, the three newest console and obviously all three formats are failing commercially and in terms of creativity.

Phil: The Vita, it's turning into something that old indie games are big on, right?

Phil: The DS is just a pile of shit and the Wii U is something we're not going to talk about.

Phil: So, you know, I think it's a typical, I think it's not a unique, unique take.

Phil: As for Laser Lemming, I was looking over the website today and the most interesting thing I found was your, it's not a review, I mean, usually you write reviews, that's what people know you for.

Tom: And just to fill a record, this is no bias or anything of that sort, the fact that it's written by me.

Phil: No, no, no, no, I mean, I looked over the entire site and...

Tom: Read every single article.

Phil: I did, I did, and review, and this is the one that took my interest and that was your feature on QuickTime Event.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Now, it was a pretty exhaustive article.

Phil: Everyone knows that QuickTime Event started with Dragon's Lair.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Unfortunately.

Tom: Which I had to close out the entire screenshot caption to.

Phil: It's arguable that those were real QTEs as we know them today.

Phil: I think most people attribute the Dreamcast game Shenmue as providing real QTEs for the first time, but did Shenmue predate Parappa?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: Or DDR even.

Phil: And then that's why I wondered if DDR and Parappa are kind of in a different thing because they're providing it in a stream, right?

Phil: QTEs are putting up the button.

Phil: You have to press it that minute, at the minute.

Phil: At that second, you got to press the red A.

Phil: Whereas with DDR, Parappa, the minigames in the GTA series, including Bully, it's a streaming thing where you can see what's coming in advance.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So, I kind of put those rhythm games in a different category.

Tom: Well, see, here's the thing.

Tom: In the article, anyway, the point when it comes to rhythm games being that the main separation between them and a QTE is simply the fact that the entire focus of the gameplay is on the QTE, right?

Tom: So it doesn't have another form of gameplay that is the main focus.

Phil: Right.

Phil: In both cases, you're looking solely for the symbol to press.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Whereas, because you can't necessarily differentiate the two forms of gameplay as you did there because there are, in fact, rhythm games that do, in fact, present the commands as a stream.

Tom: This is probably, for example, one you'd be very familiar with is simply the karaoke in Yakuza, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: Well, the difference there, Tom, is that those DDR Parappa and Yakuza where you've got the karaoke, here's the difference, those are rhythm games and you're required to pay attention to the aural cues, aural A U R A L, right?

Tom: You know, you can listen...

Tom: Also, O R A L would work if there was singing involved, by the way.

Phil: Right, and you can listen and hit the buttons appropriately.

Phil: Whereas with the other QTE games, what it does is it takes the focus away from the cinematics that are going on, the visual that is going on, and basically turns you into a rat in a cage, you know, looking for a button to press, right?

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: And this is obviously the thing with games like Indigo Prophecy, Slash Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain, you know, QTEs are often criticized because they take the focus away from the game.

Phil: You can't really see what's going on on the screen, right?

Phil: And you're basically focusing on what button to press next.

Tom: Is Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain criticized for that much?

Phil: Yeah, I mean, I've heard criticisms of that, certainly, from reviewers.

Tom: Fahrenheit as well or just Heavy Rain?

Phil: Heavy Rain most recently.

Tom: Yeah, because in the case of Fahrenheit, most of the QTEs, due to their simplicity, the prompts actually take place not in the action, so like there's a black bar at the top, and you can see the prompt you're meant to be doing, like wiggling a thumbstick right, is up the top.

Tom: The only major scene I can think of is the boss battle, which I was referring to at the end of the article, where the prompts are more obviously on screen, but they don't really obscure the action all that much, which is mainly due to the intuitiveness rather than the visual design.

Phil: Right, exactly.

Phil: That's the thing that Cage does with both games, is that his QTEs are more intuitive.

Phil: They're more representative of a natural motion that you'd be doing in that.

Phil: Now, as natural as they can be defined down to a, you know, a button controller, right.

Phil: But they are more natural.

Phil: So, if you're brushing your teeth, it's left, right, left, right, that sort of thing.

Phil: Whereas in God of War, which is heavily criticized for this, you know, basically nothing matters other than the QTEs.

Phil: In God of War they did a much better job of it, where they represented the buttons you're supposed to press by their position on the gamepad, which is a total freaking cop-out.

Phil: Now, in your review, you said that, look, you know, QTEs offer a simple way to provide the player with a strong challenge based only on reflex, but it's not on reflex, it's memory, right, because it's not only reflex, because when I was playing Parappa for the first time, it was the game that I bought with my first PlayStation, right?

Phil: So I don't know where triangle is.

Phil: I don't know where square or circle or X is.

Phil: Now, they're tattooed on my brain, but at the time, it was really challenging because I'm like, oh, they want me to press triangle, you have to look down at the controller.

Phil: So when I first got Parappa with my first PlayStation, you know, I didn't know where triangle was, so it's not just a matter of pressing it at the right beat, you also have to look down and figure out where the triangle button is, so it's not just a matter of reflex, it's also memory.

Tom: Which is, by the way, exactly what it said in the article.

Phil: Alright, well, I got to that point and I stopped reading.

Phil: As soon as I found a point where you were wrong, I stopped reading and then moved on to the next paragraph.

Tom: And it turned out it was a point, I was correct.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: But what was interesting about your article, it started out talking about boss battles and it ended up talking about boss battles, which of course is what you do in writing, but it was mostly about QTEs.

Phil: How did you get to that point in the article?

Tom: Well, that's what it was always about, basically.

Phil: Boss battles or QTEs?

Tom: Both.

Tom: Because the main hook of the theme is the effect that QTEs, this generation, appear to have had on boss battles and how they are used within the structure of a game, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: So, I mean, in terms of boss battles, as I was reading it, I was coming to my conclusions prior to you writing them.

Phil: So as you were writing it, I was like, yes, but, and then the next paragraph answered that.

Phil: So for example, the boss battle used to be the narrative climax, right?

Phil: The boss battle was the boss at the end of the game that you had to beat and it was the hardest boss.

Phil: But what we've seen over the last two generations is that the hardest boss is typically not the last boss, but the second to last boss, or even you might even be a boss at past the half point of the game, maybe two thirds into the game.

Phil: And then from there on, it's a trailing story.

Phil: And JRPGs have pretty much held strong on this in terms of just giving you an insurmountable boss at the end.

Phil: But in every other format, the end boss is nice.

Phil: It's more of a story point.

Phil: And then when you do get to the end boss battle, it's usually a QTE.

Phil: And what's interesting about this is one of the most popular franchises of this generation is Uncharted.

Phil: When you get to the end of Uncharted, the original, they give you a stupid gun battle which is insanely harder than anything else you've done in the game.

Tom: Like a light gun battle.

Tom: On rails I mean, sorry.

Phil: Yeah, it's extremely difficult, right?

Phil: They ramp up the difficulty stupidly because it's like, oh, this is the last level so it's got to be hard.

Phil: And then you get to the end boss and basically it's a four point QTE where you punch this guy in the face.

Phil: In the second game they dispensed the QTE and they went with a platforming kind of thing where basically, it's actually a Mario kind of boss.

Tom: But you manage to pass it.

Phil: You figure out the pattern and then once you figure out the pattern it's easy.

Phil: And then in the third game they essentially go back to what you're talking about, which is the second to last boss is the hard boss, then they have the story boss at the end with a simple QTE.

Phil: Which, when you think about it, is kind of funny because that's Uncharted, you know, Uncharted is representative of probably the pinnacle of cynical gaming design, right?

Tom: Cynical or cinematic?

Phil: Cynical.

Phil: So, it's probably the most, well, it's probably the most focus tested, honed, you know...

Tom: Yeah...

Phil: .

Phil: narrowly defined game as it is, and when you see it over the course of this generation going from just straight QTE to Mario going, okay, everyone called us out for our boss last time, we'll go for a traditional boss, which was Ludicrous, it was like a blue glowing alien...

Phil: .

Phil: that you had to sap into.

Tom: Which pissed everyone off again, didn't it?

Phil: Again, yes, and then with the third one, they just went, okay, well, we're going to go with what the focus groups tell us is what people want, which is they have a difficult battle.

Phil: Now, your main enemy in Uncharted is basically Martha Stewart, it's this little old lady, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So, you know, you can't be like punching her in the face or shooting her, you know, or shooting her in the stomach, we'll say.

Phil: And anyway, it illustrates your point perfectly.

Tom: So, what you're saying is I was right all along, despite all the misgivings at times that were then answered.

Phil: But your conclusion, though, is that even if QTEs have not entirely replaced boss battles, there's no doubt that they're deluding them.

Phil: You know, I'm at the point in my gaming where if I get to the end, I deserve to be rewarded, not rewarded with a challenge.

Phil: And I just want the game to be over at that point.

Phil: So I'm playing Serious Sam and I'm at the end boss.

Phil: And I figure since I got to the end, I deserve to finish the game.

Phil: And instead they've given me what is basically an insurmountable challenge.

Tom: Have you finished it by the way?

Phil: No, I haven't.

Phil: I haven't played it this week.

Phil: I haven't played it since last Saturday.

Tom: So what you're saying is you're part of the problem?

Phil: I guess so, because when I play a game, I want to enjoy it.

Phil: And I guess QTEs are the compromise between the artist saying, well, damn it, you still have to interact with our mediums.

Phil: And the consumer saying, well, I just want to beat the boss.

Phil: Right?

Phil: So the guy says, okay, well, you have to press triangle, square, circle, circle, triangle.

Phil: And I go, okay.

Phil: And now I feel like he feels like I interacted with the game.

Phil: I feel like I'm a badass.

Phil: We both win.

Phil: But all in all, an excellent article.

Phil: So that's at laserlemming.com.

Phil: And probably the best way to find it is just go to laserlemming or google laserlemming.com and press up, down, up, and you'll find the article pretty quickly.

Tom: Which I believe is pretty much all our content.

Phil: Well unfortunately, you know, we're going to have to leave the listeners with a three hour podcast here.

Phil: We did actually cut a lot from the show, believe it or not, folks, and we do appreciate that.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And so we're going to first of all, once again, send people over to www.thevjpress.com and www.laserlemming.com.

Tom: And more importantly, visit gameunder.net as well.

Tom: You could also check us out on an RSS feed.

Tom: Now I have never used an RSS feed, so what is involved in that?

Phil: Well basically, the only reason to go to gameunder.net is, you know, we're not obviously competing without the sites that we still go to, like LaserLemming and VGpress, is basically a place holder for the podcast.

Phil: So you can go to gameunder.net to stream the show, where we're going to have, you know, our notes, we're going to have reviews of our, archive of our reviews.

Tom: You can read about Semi Sources Baseball Challenge.

Phil: Semi Sources Softball Slam.

Tom: My apologies.

Tom: My apologies.

Phil: No problem.

Phil: But more importantly, you can subscribe to our blogs over there, that way you're always going to find out when Tom's hit up a new review, or we're going to have a new podcast.

Phil: And we also have an RSS feed for our podcast as well.

Phil: And very soon, I'm in the process of setting up our iTunes subscription as well.

Phil: So just to make it as easy as possible for you guys.

Phil: But all in all, we appreciate it and we thank you for listening.

Tom: And you may be wondering why we didn't cover the Adimorph and Microsoft controversy.

Tom: And that's because as you're about to hear, we did in fact do so in the form of an old western yarn to honky tonk and folk guitar.

Tom: All right.

Phil: And we had a lot of catch up to do.

Phil: We haven't done a show in a long time.

Phil: All right, mate.

Tom: All right.

Tom: See you.

Phil: Yeah, I'll probably get this up tomorrow afternoon.

Tom: All right.

Tom: Sounds good.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Bye bye.

Tom: Bye bye.